‘Apostle Paul never met Jesus; never heard Jesus preach; never lived in Jesus’ group or commune. And yet, Paul elevated himself above Peter and James. That was presumptuous of Paul.’
That’s what makes the anointing of His Holy Spirit on apostle Paul incredible. Something the wisdom of this World cannot understand in the flesh.
It’s called being Spirit led.
Apostle Peter, the apostle of the Jews who walked with Christ endorsed apostle Paul in 2 Peter 3:15.
Any man’s rejection of Paul is a ‘worthless attempt’ especially since they themselves or the leaders they follow ‘never walked with Christ either’.
And apostle Peter never endorsed any of the leaders who are against Paul. Simple.
“and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,” – apostle Peter (2 Peter 3:15, NASB)
Example of a Deceiver: ‘Hyam Maccoby’ who wrote ‘The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity’.
I will believe apostle Paul over “Hyam Maccoby.”
There is “no meekness” in accepting “Hyam Maccoby” and rejecting apostle Paul.
Is “Hyam Maccoby” humble in writing and rejecting apostle Paul? (this is getting ‘weird’).
Christ chose apostle Paul and NOT Hyam Maccoby.
P/S: Example of arguments against Paul
‘Do my eyes deceive me, or do I spot a quote by Paul, the inventor of Christianity? The man who hated his own body. The man riven by guilt. The man who so very much NEEDED to feel saved that he projected his own guilt feelings onto everyone else and made Jesus into a dying god who would forgive Paul all his sins – which is what he needed so very much.’
Apostle Paul is a great man of God who is honest about the sin in his body that he despised it, he acknowledged his past sin in persecuting the church before his conversion and Saw the Love of Christ Who Died for the sins of men who won’t even admit to their “own sins due to their own blindness”.
‘Well my translation says “everlasting cutting-off”. – “And these will go away into eternal punishment…” (The New Annotated Oxford Bible”, 1989; and exactly the same translation is found in The NIV Thematic Study Bible: The International Version”, 1984).’
Your arguments are weak sir when it is NOT substantiated with ‘earliest Christian History’.
Quoting the Bible doesn’t prove that as ‘everyone from heretics to believers quote the Bible and Translations’.
We have to prove it from the understanding of Earliest Authoritative Christian Writings ‘outside’ the Bible to prove that they ‘understood the Bible in that Way’.
Here are four examples from PURE FIRST ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY how ‘the word AION/EON/AEON means age-during and NOT eternal’ (sometimes, singular-age/aeon vs plural-ages/aeons too ACCURATELY AS IT IS WRITTEN):
(i) It doesn’t matter what your translation says sir.
Here’s how as St. Irenaeous of Lyons (the REAL authority on Koine Greek) explains:
Page 115 (from ‘Lost Orthodoxy’ Book):
1.) Aeons – Are Aeons distinguishable from each other?
Whilst discussing a heresy of the gnostics, St. Irenaeous mentions the following:
“And besides; “the eternal [Aeonian, Age-during] fire which the Father has prepared for the devil and his angels,” -they ought to show of which of those Aeons that are above it is the image; for it, too, is reckoned part of the creation.” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter VII – Created Things are Not the Images of Those Aeons Who are Within the Pleroma, Point 3)
Please note carefully that Irenaeous is quoting the Verse in Matthew 25:41 where the same Greek singular-word “Aeon” (or Eon or ‘age’) occurs —> and puts the burden of the argument that the Gnostics ought to show ‘which of those Aeons that are above it is the image’ —> proving that the ‘Aeonion fire or age-during fire’ is for a particular “age” only, namely AGE2 in our write ups.
The heresy Irenaeous is discussing in this passage relates to some Gnostics’ claim that an ‘Aeon or Age’ is an ‘Image of some creation”.
Thus in relation to the ‘Punishment Aeon’ described in Matthew 25:41, St. Irenaeous is obviously ridiculing these Gnostics by asking them ‘which Image of Creation’ corresponds to being ‘fiery’ like that future Aeon or Punishment Age (AGE2)?
Since NO such ‘creation (or image) in fire exists’ as per ‘their hypothesis that each Aeon corresponds to a creation’, hence the Gnostic’s claim that an Aeon has a creation-mirror is a ‘false statement’ (implied by Irenaeous’ argument above).
By usage itself it is clear that St. Irenaeous looks at the next Aeon (singular – AGE2) referred to in Matthew 25:41 as distinguishable and is part of a subset of Aeons (plural) —> and that’s why he asks ‘which creation (past of present, implied) corresponds to the next Aeon, AGE2?’ (Implied) —> Meaning that Irenaeous does NOT see the ‘next age, AGE2’ as ‘eternal’ but as a ‘singular age/aeon only’ out of the larger set of ‘plural ages/aeons’ into which it belongs.
(ii) Do your scholars know how to read apostle Paul?
I’m not asking that question but St. Irenaeous himself (below) as ‘he explains’ too thereafter a ‘correct reading of apostle Paul’.
Page 141 (from ‘Lost Orthodoxy’ Book):
Irenaeous Clearly implies the AEON2 and NOT forever.
“… know NOT how to read [apostle] Paul. … And he [apostle Paul] says, “the unbelievers of THIS AGE, [AEON, AGE1],” because they shall NOT INHERIT the FUTURE AGE [AEON, AGE2] of Incorruption … So therefore, in such passages, the hyperbaton must be exhibited by the reading, and the apostle’s meaning following on, preserved; and thus we do NOT read in that passage, “the god of THIS AGE, [AEON, AGE1],” but, “God,” whom we do truly call God; and we hear [it declared of] the UNBELIEVING and the BLINDED of THIS AGE, [AEON, AGE1], that they shall NOT INHERIT the AGE [AEON, AGE2] of life which is TO COME [next AGE, next AEON, Future – AGE2].” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 3, Chapter VII, Point 1 & Point 2)
Please note that Irenaeos basically ‘repeats himself twice’ in the above that the ‘unbelieving’ of THIS CURRENT AGE, AEON1 —> shall NOT inherit ‘life’ & ‘incorruption’ in the NEXT AGE, AEON2 and that there is also at least AEON3 (based on Ephesians 2:7) proving that the next AEON2 is NOT eternal as explained by Irenaeous’ own writing too (in the previous post below – under the Topics, ‘Aeons of the Aeons – ages of Ages – St. Irenaeous of Lyons on the Eternal Age Heresy’ and ‘All Things – Aeons – Salvation of All – Secrets from St. Irenaeous of Lyons’ – for example):
(iii) Did St. Irenaeous understand ‘Zoe Aionion’ (age-during life) in Matthew 25:46 to mean ‘eternal life’?
No. Please consider the following:
To Quote (from Page 125 in the ‘Lost Orthodoxy’ Book):
” Besides those, however, among these heretics who are Simonians, and of whom we have already spoken, a multitude of Gnostics have sprung up, and have been manifested like mushrooms growing out of the ground.
I now proceed to describe the principal opinions held by them. Some of them, then, set forth a certain Aeon who never grows old, and exists in a virgin spirit: him they style Barbelos.
They declare that somewhere or other there exists a certain father who cannot be named, and that he was desirous to reveal himself to this Barbelos. Then this Ennoea went forward, stood before his face, and demanded from him Prognosis (prescience).
But when Prognosis had, [as was requested, ] come forth, these two asked for Aphtharsia (incorruption), which also came forth, and after that Zoe Aionios (ageduring life).
Barbelos, glorying in these, and contemplating their greatness, and in conception [thus formed], rejoicing in this greatness, generated light similar to it. … ”
(St. Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter XXIX:1)
I repeat the above, please note the following ‘heresy, carefully’:
“… heretics … multitude of Gnostics … Some of them, then, set forth a certain Aeon who
never grows old… these two asked for Aphtharsia (incorruption), which also came forth, and after that Zoe Aionios (age-during life) … ” (St. Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter XXIX:1)
Can you see it?
Firstly, please note that ‘Zoe Aionios’ is a similar phrase to ‘age-during life’ (popularly
translated as ‘eternal life’ in Matthew 25:46).
Irenaeous is contending that the ‘Gnostic heretics’ are the one who were popularizing the ‘new idea’ that there is a ‘certain Aeon’ or ‘certain Age’ —-> ‘which never grows old’ (i.e. is ‘eternal’).
Notice that the ‘Aeon which never grows old’ —-> is said to have been equivalent to have
attained ‘Aphtharsia (incorruption)’ which is IMMORTALITY (as this word is different and is
found in 1 Corinthians 15) —-> meaning so clearly that there is NO such thing as an ‘eternal age’ but that ‘each age has both a beginning and end’ (being time periods, implied).
Yes, the Gnostic heretics are the ones who introduced the concept of an ‘eternal age’ which ‘never grows old’ as they say, it has attained ‘Aphtharsia (incorruption or immortality)’.
The rest is their ‘story telling’ with ‘fabled beings representing these ages or aeons’.
Are you going to tell me that your ‘Oxford PhD guys are right and Irenaeous is wrong?’
I will believe the apostolic Authority of Doctrine (St. Irenaeous of Lyons) over your ‘secular pagan writing based PhD scholars who claim against his writings’.
(iv) Is Age-during life and Immortality (“eternal life”) different?
Yes. Here’s how St. Irenaeous of Lyons understood “Immortality or Everlasting Life” correctly according to Holy Scripture (we shouldn’t understand it differently):
To quote (from page 43 of ‘Lost Orthodoxy’ Book):
- b) Immortality
What is Immortality or living Forever in the Context of Scripture according to Irenaeous?
NO Eternal Life is Granted in One Aeon or One Age – The Eternal Age Heresy –
Understanding Immortality Correctly.
Body and Soul do NOT exist forever but are subject to God granting its existence from ‘age to age’ or ‘aeon to aeon’, that is from ‘one aeon to the next’:
” … But ALL THINGS which proceed from Him, WHATSOEVER have been MADE, and are made, do indeed receive their own beginning of generation, and on this account are INFERIOR to Him who formed them, inasmuch as they are not unbegotten.
Nevertheless THEY ENDURE, and EXTEND their EXISTENCE into a LONG SERIES of AGES in accordance with the WILL of GOD their Creator; so that He GRANTS them that they should be thus formed at the beginning, and that they should so exist afterwards.”
(St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXXIV.-Souls Can Be Recognised in the Separate State, and are
Immortal Although They Once Had a Beginning, Point 2)
I repeat, please note these phrases ‘carefully’ from Irenaeous’ own words (NOT mine) which
proves this claim Irrefutably for ‘Sound Doctrine’:
ALL THINGS which proceed from Him, WHATSOEVER have been MADE —> are INFERIOR to Him who formed them —> THEY ENDURE, and EXTEND their EXISTENCE —> into a LONG SERIES of AGES —-> [Ages or Aeons – Can you see the Plural ‘ages to come’ or ‘aeons to come’ theory true even for ‘future ages’ as per Ephesians 2:7) —-> in accordance with the WILL of GOD their Creator, so that He GRANTS them.
Can you see how FIRST CHRISTIANITY understood ‘age-during life vs Immortality’ BIBLICALLY?
Best is, our Most Blessed Savior, Lord Jesus Christ endorses St. Irenaeous and ‘NOT the Oxford Translation even’ (“sorry”) —> to be Correct in regards to the Meaning of that same Koine Greek Word in concern in each of these related Verses (be it Noun or Adjective), namely the Root Word AGE/AION/EON/AEON in Verse below:
“Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age [AEON1] or in the age to come [AEON 2].” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 12:32, NASB)
I repeat, the ‘next Age/Aeon’ (AEON2) CANNOT be eternal as “AGE3 or AEON3 exists” proving ‘irrefutably’ that “AGE2 or AEON2 must END to make way for AEON3, implying that the NEXT AEON2 cannot be eternal” as apostle Paul confirms it in Verse below Beautifully:
“so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 2:7, NASB)
I repeat for Emphasis:
“so that in the AGES to COME [AEON2, AEON3, …] He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 2:7, NASB)
Please don’t remain deceived by the ‘opinions of men be it from Oxford or ancient Pagan non–Christian type itself’ as opposed to ours by Christ Himself, apostle Paul & St. Irenaeous from FIRST CHRISTIANITY.
See the DIFFERENCE?
Peace to you
P/S: Age-During Power
Doesn’t the Phrase “age-during Power” or “age-during Glory” limit God’s Glory to the age only and thus AEON must mean forever?
This is a COMMON FALLACY in THEOLOGY arising from the Fact of NOT understanding that God ALONE has Absolute IMMORTALITY (1 Timothy 6:16) and hence to each ‘created thing’, it can have at MOST ‘an age-during might/existence first’ (as Irenaeous explained earlier that can be ‘continued to the next AEON or AGE as God Wills’) which is the TRUE meaning of ‘age-during might/glory’ as ‘God only endows age to age endurance/glory to those created things which reflects back to Him’.
Isn’t Holy Scripture ACCURATE?
To quote (from Book ‘Lost Orthodoxy’):
(i) Page 53 from Book ‘Lost Orthodoxy’
Please note that the Greek Word for ‘Immortality or Incorruptibility’ (e.g. in 1 Corinthians 15) as it is found in quote above too has NEVER been used to describe the duration of any ‘afterlife Judgment’ in the Bible and is NOT from the Greek Word “Aion or Eon” proving further distinction on the ‘fine details’ (in case you didn’t realize this well known fact).
What is the “[age-during, and NOT eternal] good things of God” which is mentioned in the above?
It refers to the Coming First Resurrection to live in this Renewed Old Earth under this present Old Heavens (Revelation 20:4 – 6) during His Millennial Reign for 1000 years. This Reign is NOT eternal and the good things from this OLD earth is NOT eternal since at the end of this age (after the 1000 years are up), the Great White Throne of Judgment takes place next (Revelation 20:11 – 15) and thereafter a NEW heaven and a NEW earth with NO sea too will be made for us to dwell (Revelation 21:1).
Holy Scripture itself proves the existence of ‘non eternal but age-during good things which last to the end of this current age only in the OLD earth & OLD heavens’ (2 Corinthians 4:18) because that’s the ‘first reward’ we receive upon the ‘Resurrection of the Just’ during the 1000 year Millennial Reign of Christ. Even St. Iraneous explained this distinction in ‘against Heresies’ that the ‘General Resurrection’ (Chapter 35, Daniel 12:2, John 5:28 – 29) is 1000 years later than this ‘First Resurrection’ (called the ‘times of the kingdom’, Chapter 34, Revelation 20:4 – 6) proving distinction though he did not go into much details for the ‘General Resurrection’.
(ii) Page 126 from Book ‘Lost Orthodoxy’
The Bible Teaches that ONLY God has ‘Deathless-ness’ (athanasian) being Immortal and that His Power to sustain the rest of things is to the ‘age (aeon) only’ so that ‘NONE of the current things will last eternally’ (can you see the real meaning and purpose of His ‘age-during Power’?) as these ‘former things’ will eventually pass away (and NOT last forever, Isaiah 65:17, Revelation 21:4):
“Who [God] only is having Immortality [Athanasian], dwelling in light unapproachable, whom no one of men did see, nor is able to see, to whom is honour and might age [aeon]-during! Amen.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 6:16, YLT)
Yes, God’s Power or Honour is ‘highlighted’ (NOT limited) to the ‘age (aeon)‘ in Holy Scripture because these ‘created things’ are to last to ‘that particular age (aeon) only’ – an incredible accuracy in Inspired Writing pointing to this Truth. In like manner, God of Israel does NOT mean that He is the God for Israel only but is highlighted thus for ‘His Specific Purposes toward them’ (Romans 3:29).
For example, God’s Power is highlighted as ‘His age-during Power‘ (in 1 Timothy 6:16), because it refers to the current ‘created things’ lasting only ’till the end of this age only’ after which the ‘fire will consume it’ (2 Peter 3:7 – 10) and a New Heavens and a New Earth will be Made thereafter (2 Peter 3:13).
P/S 2: Prophecy – All Created things? Really?
“For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; Who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the Body of His Glory, by the EXERTION of the POWER that He has even to SUBJECT ALL THINGS to HIMSELF.” – apostle Paul (Philippians 3:20 – 21, NASB)
Please note ‘carefully’ this “Prophecy” embedded in the quoted Verse:
Subject —> “All things” —> “All [Created] things” (1 Corinthians 15:27, Colossians 1:16) —-> to ‘Himself’ too —> eventually (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28, Colossians 1:20).
Can you see it?
Is it Done yet?
Not yet (Hebrews 2:8) and God does NOT Fail (as ‘Prophetically’ mentioned toward the ‘Completion of His Work’ in John 17:1 – 5).
For an example of a Contextual Explanation of John 17:1 – 5, please consider Page 110 from the ‘Lost Orthodoxy’ Book (next, quoted below):
Also, ‘It is Finished’ in Revelation 21:6 points to the ‘thirsty ones’ being able to drink from the Water of Life (which hasn’t occurred yet, it is literal & and ‘eternal drinking’, Revelation 22:17) and is NOT referring to the ‘internal spiritual drink’ which believers or His Bride drinks (John 7:38) as to taste the powers of the age to come now (Hebrews 6:5) where His Bride or Overcomers inherit ‘All [Created] things’ (Revelation 21:7, Ephesians 1:22) which is in parallel to the ‘wicked’ having their ‘part in the Lake of Fire simultaneously’ (Revelation 21:8) —> where again, NONE of these Prophetic statement are done yet.
We find another similar phrase where Christ says that ‘His Work is Finished or Done/Accomplished’ (in John 17:4) which is Written in the Context of ‘age-during life’ (John 17:3) being given to ALL FLESH eventually (John 17:2) thereafter which Christ Prophetically echoes to Return to His Full Glory again (John 17:1, 5) which He ‘let go’ of Earlier (Philippians 2:6 – 7) Humbling Himself for Love’s Sake to Save the World (1 John 4:14) —> which is NOT Done yet for all as ALL FLESH is NOT Resurrected in a Body yet (So, this Statement again is Prophetic in assuring that Christ Will Accomplish ALL the Work of God).
The Verses above are in ‘Context’ in regards to the Meaning ‘It is Finished or It is Done’ (linking these together, John 19:30, Revelation 21:6, John 17:4 – Prophetically).
Yes, in the Context of Universal Reconciliation and Salvation too, the Infamous Prophecy of ALL [Created] THINGS to be Reconciled back to Him eventually (Colossians 1:16, 20 or 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28) is NOT Done yet either (as Hebrews 2:8 clearly Reveals) with NOTHING being left Un-subject to Him (meaning that there is NO Eternal Hell where evil can exist eternally – can you see it?) —> when that Happens (being FULFILLED – Matthew 5:17 – 18) in its OWN DIVINE TIMES APPOINTED for this ‘as it is Written’ (Ephesians 1:9 – 10, Acts 3:21, 1 Timothy 2:6) Proving again that these Verses are Prophetic.
Hence, Judgment is Real and though Salvation is a Free Gift of God, some only attain it after [afterlife] Judgment in the Lake of Fire (for the Wicked) first [as my post regarding this aspect titled ‘Final Afterlife Judgment – Plato & Justin Martyr’ reveals some ‘hidden things in parallel between Early Christianity and the Greek Stories] —-> and ‘our obedience toward God plays a role toward our reward or inheritance level in His Kingdom of the Heavens’ (as Matthew 5:19 implies in the Context of being ‘least vs greatest’ there).
P/S 3: Book Lost Orthodoxy?
(i) Book with Covers
(ii) Book with NO Covers
A Timeless Truth – God Became Flesh
‘God Became FLESH and DWELT among us’ (John 1:14), hence the ‘Past Tense’ —> ‘was God’ (John 1:1) —> because ‘Lord Jesus Christ LET GO of His EQUALITY with God the FATHER’ (Philippians 2:6 – 8) just to ‘SAVE the WORLD’ (1 John 4:14).
Nothing is ‘more Beautiful than this Truth’.
The Great Secret of God (Prophetically Revealed in Its Fullness in the Majestic Verse below):
“And without controversy GREAT is the MYSTERY of Godliness: GOD was MANIFEST in the FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into GLORY.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 3:16, KJV)