Appendix: A friendly disagreement with a Top Academic Journal
1) JonR – Chiliasm Prophecy – 1 Thessalonians 4:17 (“Rapture” Verse) and 1 Corinthians 15:52 (“Twinkling of an Eye Change” Verse) is Separated by 1000 years. (Original: 18 Sep 2024; NEW update: 21 Sep 2024)
*Link for Ms Word download:
*Link for PDF download:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ty4DaD0pcA9xUnw0e6rBQ0k3AtFSRZvC/view?usp=sharing
2) JonR – Non Elect Salvation Possibility (8 August 2024; NEW update: 21 Sep 2024)
*Link for Ms Word download:
*Link for PDF download:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XCsdag6_7Sd7WYbhBs_YSADzYiS4KJvZ/view?usp=sharing
Example Update done in only for this file earlier [JonR – Chiliasm Prophecy – 1 Thessalonians 4:17 (“Rapture” Verse) and 1 Corinthians 15:52 (“Twinkling of an Eye Change” Verse) is Separated by 1000 years.]:
- Two more Verses added Water of Life reference separated by 1000 years (Rows 11 & 12)
- Appendix added (for both files above).
Both the above is briefly described next.
Shalom
I will present my reply which came after a peer review via a top academic journal belonging to an University which many people dream of getting into. I withhold the name because I am not against the good work and excellent academic output which they have done (even beyond what I can do) but yet in this particular point regarding what is considered “academic” and called “elementary” in the context of “prophecy” based journal submissions, I have to disagree.
For example, if the various Chiliasm prophecy aspects and interpolations which I have added in support of it comes true and their beliefs on prophecy wrong on Judgment Day, what was so “advanced/academic” then?
If I don’t write it out, such a practice will be prevalent and even if it continues it doesn’t matter but the important thing is in God’s Eyes I have already told them honestly why I disagree in principle of Christ’s Words here, “Yes, and why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right?” (Luke 12:57, NKJV).
Journal X wrote on 18/19 September 2024 (content part):
“Thank you for the article, “Chiliasm Prophecy Context 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 Separated by 1000 years”, which you submitted to the Journal of XXXXXXXX earlier today along with another, ‘Non-Elect Salvation Possibility’. Clearly although these articles are not directly overlapping of one another, in some respects they do cover closely similar ground.
You previously asked me about the second, shorter, of the two articles in an email in August, and I said then that I did not think we had room for this work in XXX. I have to say that this is still the case, and still more so for the much longer article on Chiliasm which you have submitted. The length of these articles, the ground they cover, and the very strongly confessional stance of the two, does not make them good candidates for publication in a critical journal such as XXX. The articles are a rather eclectic mixture of some very detailed argument along with quotation of some (too much) very familiar patristic material introduced in a fairly elementary way. I am simply not sure they are appropriate, as such, to the readership of an academic journal.
The total length of these two articles, over 50,000 words, clearly points towards the option of writing them up as a short book and offering this to a suitable Christian publisher as a contribution to better understanding of salvation/eschatological questions within the churches. I hope you will take this option. The material would reach a wider and probably more suitable readership, if offered in this form, than if published in an academic journal, though to be sure an evangelical journal might be more able to consider them than XXX.
I am sorry to have to disappoint you. I hope you will consider the above a constructive suggestion and not an indication of lack of interest in the subject area of the articles, which is of course one of perennial theological concern.”
My reply wrote on 19 September 2024 (content part):
“Thank you for your detailed explanation. I understand your points and concerns and appreciate the constructive options you have provided. For me, as long as I have done my part in sharing what I see as a theological possibility, all other human system rules and all that which opposes it to be published in any journal is between those who create such systems and God to decide if it’s something He would approve of.
I clearly respect your decision and understand that you have to follow the rules created by the journal in regard to the topic and academic nature of what can be published. I clearly hoped that things which are of “new discovery” can be opted as an exception & published especially since every single Chiliasm Church Father name I quoted is “Academics” and me quoting them and adding interpolations is highlighting what may be “missed” in “popular academic view on prophecy” aspect.
To show that it’s a “new discovery”, unless someone can prove that this Chiliasm Claim of say 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 is separated by 1000 years is “published” by any other scholar in any earlier date (be it any other journal) using these same Chiliasm Church Father quotes, my claim stands. Also, if it happens someone else actually did it, I would love to meet that person too and it’s a coincidence since I never copied nor plagiarized any such idea from anyone else. Regarding the importance of it, “Testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy” (Revelation 19:10, NKJV) so having wrong prophecy may affect “wrong testimony” and thus all other ‘theological work’ may not be as important even if right.
Of course, I do understand whether what I quoted is right or wrong in God’s Eyes is not determined yet, and neither is the truth of any opposing prophecy view which is prevalent against these quotes, which may even have been published in your journal in some capacity by others is unproven in the Eyes of God either. This means though I disagree with the journal’s decision to not publish it for such reasons, I respect it as a matter of institutional law, not God’s Law which He will reveal on that Day fairly to both parties, the key difference being I don’t stop opposite views from what I believe nor what the majority of readers’ opinion is to determine the “possibilities” of truth from Chiliasm Church Fathers.”
Comparison of “Water of Life and Tree of Life” aspects for Chiliasm Prophecy Timeline to show two occurrences possibly 1000 years apart via differences in various traits shown next.
| Water/Tree of Life Bible Verses at start of 1000 years Millennial Reign for Christians in human sinless resurrection body (Elect Salvation) during First Resurrection but changed to no more human into angelic at end of this 1000 years when Marriage of Lamb is completed in Old Earth/Heavens. | Water/Tree of Life Bible Verses at end of 1000 years Millennial Reign for non-Christians including fallen Christians in human sinless resurrection body (non-Elect Salvation) during the Second Resurrection in New Earth/Heavens (if this interpretation is true). |
| i) Christians partake of the Water of Life immediately after the final great tribulation and first resurrection on the old earth. “5Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to [c]living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” (Revelation 7:15 – 17, NKJV) ii) River of Life allegorical fulfilment during the Millennial reign includes usage by mere mortals and so cannot be referring to the final one. “12Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine.” (Ezekiel 47:12, NKJV) iii) There is a literal sea with fishes in it when this allegorical fulfilment of the Water of Life happens during the millennium. “When it reaches the sea, its waters are healed. 9And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever [c]the rivers go, will live. There will be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters go there; for they will be healed, and everything will live wherever the river goes. 10It shall be that fishermen will stand by it from En Gedi to En Eglaim; they will be places for spreading their nets. Their fish will be of the same kinds as the fish of the Great Sea, exceedingly many. 11But its swamps and marshes will not be healed; they will be given over to salt.” (Ezekiel 47:8 – 11, NKJV) iv) A literal moon and sun still exists during the millennial reign of Christ. “Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.” (Isaiah 24:23, KJV) v) Sinners/Mortals exists during the millennium meaning it is still affected by sin and so it is before great white throne judgment day. “There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. …” (Isaiah 65:20, KJV) “4And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. … 8And in that day it shall be That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, Half of them toward [e]the eastern sea And half of them toward [f]the western sea; In both summer and winter it shall occur. 9And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be— “The Lord is one,” And His name one. … 16And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.” (Zechariah 14: 4, 8 – 9, 16 – 18, NKJV) vi) One last rebellion of mortals/sinners is at end of this 1000 years who are destroyed by heavenly fire (Revelation 20:7 – 10) and after that “Lake of Fire” Judgment Day begins. “7Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” (Revelation 20:7 – 10, NKJV) | i) The recipients of for the Water of Life here are after book of life results are revealed and on the final new earth and heavens. “1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea … 5Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said [b]to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.” 6And He said to me, “It[c] is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7He who overcomes [d]shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8But the cowardly, [e]unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” … 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the [h]great city, the [i]holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, … 22But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine [l]in it, for the [m]glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24And the nations [n]of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it.” (Revelation 21:1, 5 – 8, 10, 22 – 26, NKJV) ii) Even Christians (the “Bride”) seem to call to some “others” to partake of the “Water of Life” freely toward the “Thirsty” at that final time and via the “freewill” choice of “Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely” and the “leaves of the Tree of Life” are used for final “healing” of “nations who are saved” (possibly due to being “saved by fire” of 1 Corinthians 3:15 case) while the rest are damned. “1And he showed me a [a]pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. … 17And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.” (Revelation 22:1 – 3, 17, NKJV) iii) Second resurrection only happens at the end of 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ. No final judgment of any sinners or wicked occurs earlier since they need to be in their final resurrection bodies first. “4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.” (Revelation 20:4 – 6, NKJV) |
| Comparison details highlighted further. | |
| 1) “… When it reaches the sea, its waters are healed … very great multitude of fish, because these waters go there; …” (Ezekiel 47:8 – 9, NKJV) = Literal sea still existing on old earth. | 1) “… 1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea ….” (Revelation 21:1, NKJV) = The final new earth has no more sea. |
| 2) “… 15Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple …” (Revelation 7:15, NKJV) = Temple still existing in this Old Earth/Old Heavens. | 2) “… 22But I saw no temple in it, …” (Revelation 21:22, NKJV) = No temple in the final New Earth/New Heavens nor in the final new heavenly Jerusalem city. |
| 3) “… and serve Him day and night in His temple. …” (Revelation 7:15, NKJV) = Night exists in this earthly Jerusalem city. | 3) “… 5There shall be no night there …” (Revelation 21:5, NKJV) = No night in the final new heavenly Jerusalem city. |
| 4) “… Moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed …” (Isaiah 24:23, KJV) = Sun and moon still existing during the millennium. | 4) “… 23The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine …” (Revelation 21:23, NKJV) = No sun nor moon in the final new heavenly Jerusalem city. |
| 5) “… LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem …” (Isaiah 24:23, KJV) = Heavenly mount Zion contrasted against earthly Jerusalem during the millennial reign. | 5) “… showed me the [h]great city, the [i]holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, …” (Revelation 21:10, NKJV) = Final new Heavenly Jerusalem city context. |
| 6) “… bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food …Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine …” (Ezekiel 47:12, NKJV) = Earthly Tree/Water of Life used by mortals of millennial reign (allegory, not the real one). | 6) “… The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. … And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. …” (Revelation 22:2, 17, NKJV) = Heavenly Tree/Water of Life only to be applied to final sinless resurrection body. |
| 7) “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” (Revelation 2:7, NKJV) = Only Christians (the “Churches/Overcomers”) can eat of the “fruit” of the Tree of Life probably because they have celestial heavenly body so can partake of it in the Paradise of God (heaven zone). | 7) “… nations of those who are saved … The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. …” (Revelation 21:24, 22:2, NKJV) = The saved nations seem to only be able to partake of the “leaves” (not fruit) of the Tree of Life for “healing” probably due to having only an earthly or terrestrial final resurrection body in comparison. |
| 8) “14Blessed are those who [g]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15[h]But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” (Revelation 22:14 – 16, NKJV) Notice that only those who do His Commandments get the right to go past the “gates” into the “city” referring to the final new Jerusalem (lowest heaven which descends and connects to the final earth in the final scene) while those outside can refer to sinners where some could be saved by fire and require the healing of the leaves of the tree of life. | 8) “Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—” (Genesis 3:22, NKJV) Notice that the Tree of Life cannot be applied to any sinful human body but only to a final sinless resurrection body meaning those “saved nations” partaking the “leaves of the Tree of Life” for “healing” earlier cannot be referring to the Millennial reign timeline of “sinners/mortals” but those of the final scene after book of life results are revealed too and these could be “saved by fire” (1 Corinthians 3:15 with Daniel 12:10) and hence require “healing” post-Judgment to be “saved”. |
| 9) “11For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.” (1 Corinthians 3:11 – 14, NKJV) 1 Corinthians 3:14 reveals the case with reward so seems to match Revelation 22:14 here for those entering heaven. | 9) “15If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” (1 Corinthians 3:15, NKJV) 1 Corinthians 3:15 seems to be a case with no reward but just “saved by fire” in comparison so could be one of the sinners mentioned to be “outside” in Revelation 22:15 and require “healing” from “leaves” of Tree of Life as Revelation 22:2 means to be part of “nations who are saved” but do not enter heaven on that final earth (Revelation 21:24 – 27) and could not go pass its gates. |
| 10) “… That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, … 16And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations …17And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain …” (Zechariah 14: 8, 16, 17, NKJV) = Mortal (Sinners) exist on earth during Millennial reign “Water of Life” timeline and notice that the Lake of Fire Judgment has not happened yet (indicating which timeline). Notice that the mortals partake of the allegorical water of life while Christians partake of the real Water of Life during the millennium because only those of first resurrection (His Bride) are in sinless human resurrection body at that time. | 10) “… I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7He who overcomes [d]shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8But the cowardly, [e]unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:1, 6 – 8, NKJV) = Nor mortal nor sinners mentioned among the partakers of the actual Water/Tree of Life on the final new earth timeline when the Lake of Fire results have been revealed. Notice that the source of the Water/Tree of Life is Christ in Revelation 22:1 – 2 and that’s how probably a newly saved resurrected sinless human body can partake of His Resurrection and Life via that medium. |
| 11) “11Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. … 19And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.” (Revelation 19:11, 19 – 21, NKJV) = Notice that the “Beast” (Last Antichrist) and “false prophet” are cast “alive” into the Lake of Fire after Christ’s Second Coming and immediately after this the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ begins with the First Resurrection as the next chapter in Revelation 20:1 – 6 shows. | 11) “1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.” (Revelation 20:1 – 3, NKJV) = Notice that during the “1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ, Satan is locked in the bottomless pit” meaning it cannot be now (as non-Chiliasm positions err allegorically) and this only happens after the Second Coming of Christ has occurred with only the “Beast” (Antichrist) and “False Prophet” cast into the Lake of Fire first. Yes, notice that Satan is not cast into the Lake of Fire during the 1000 years Millennium itself contradicts many modern positions which claim that Judgment Day occurs immediately after the Second Coming of Christ. |
| 12) “11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:11 – 15, NKJV) = When compared with Verses in Revelation 20:1 – 6 and Revelation 20:7 – 10, we see clearly that great white throne Judgment Day only occurs at the end of this 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ which is the Chiliasm Timeline Prophecy position. | 12) “7Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” = One last rebellion by Satan is allowed at the end of the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ but this time fire from heaven devours the enemies and Judgment Day follows next. Notice how the Bible clearly describes that Satan only joins the “Beast” (last Antichrist) and “false prophet” in the “Lake of Fire” during this end of 1000 years meaning both the ”Antichrist and false prophet” have been burning for 1000 years already. |
Why is accuracy in prophecy important?
“10 … Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” [1]
[1] Revelation 19:10 (NKJV). biblehub.com/revelation/19-10.htm
