Book Release First Christianity: Chiliasm Prophecy Model (CPM) and Non Elect Salvation Possibility (NESP)

1) Paid Purchase for those who wish to buy the book to support my living (for new book titled “First Christianity: Chiliasm Prophecy Model and Non Elect Salvation Possibility” (CPM and NESP, released 17 December 2024):

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2) Free download

i) PDF

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Om9YDUdaffrM5RmkFMCL0qFpnHzNrPC7/view?usp=sharing

ii) MS Word

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W4e3E29iPbSPPmaTZWsC95XyVUY2QGUU/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117647441539375745387&rtpof=true&sd=true

Sample Discussions:

#CPMNESPBook [Pages 186 – 190]; CHILIASM & FIRST CHRISTIANITY – Slide 1 – It seems very safe to be a Christian of some mainstream denomination despite errors – why? Because Tertullian’s quote below applies “Baptism by Fire” Salvation to those of “weak/pretended faith” too. That’s why I point the differences but I don’t say any mainstream Christianity is headed to Eternal Hell.

Tertullian clearly distinguishes that no Christian is baptized in Fire if his faith is real and only a person with pretended or weak faith gets baptized in Fire unto Judgment (which clearly links to his purgatorial quotes in hell shown next revealing Spirit World Judgment Context since a true and stable faith is already baptized in water unto salvation here on earth and so no further judgment is needed in the “Spirit World”, right?):

“John himself professes that the celestial things are not his, but Christ’s, by saying, He who is from the earth speaks concerning the earth; He who comes from the realms above is above all; and again, by saying that he baptized in repentance only, but that One would shortly come who would baptize in the Spirit and fire; — of course because true and stable faith is baptized with water, unto salvation; pretended and weak faith is baptized with fire, unto judgment.”

Tertullian. On Baptism. Chapter 10. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0321.htm

Contrary to some common Pentecostal opinions that baptism by fire refers to the gift of “speaking in tongues”, Tertullian does not equate so here. In fact, Tertullian clearly distinguishes that the right faith is baptized only with water and Holy Spirit while the weak and pretended (wrong) faith only in comparison, is baptized with fire, unto judgment. We also know that Tertullian views this Judgment by Fire as some type of Purgatory due to his other quotes such as this:

My interpolation here is that those who get baptized in fire and are saved after any Spirit World judgment is possibly Non Elect Salvation since I don’t think Christ would marry a Bride who has a weak or pretended faith and the Gospel’s “good ground” harvest already specified that a minimum of thirtyfold level of faith is needed. Also, doesn’t ‘pretended’ itself equals having ‘no faith’? Hence this case could refer to even possibly non-Christians as well then to have a chance at this Baptism by Fire and be saved after Hell as Tertullian applies it to such weak or pretended faith Christian ones next [implied]):

“before God the Judge (for in this light do we read of him, in another passage, as the accuser of the brethren, Revelation 12:10 or saints, where reference is made to the actual practice of legal prosecution); and lest this Judge deliver you over to the angel who is to execute the sentence, and he commit you to the prison of hell, out of which there will be no dismissal until the smallest even of your delinquencies be paid off in the period before the resurrection. What can be a more fitting sense than this? What a truer interpretation?” Tertullian. A Treatise on the Soul. Chapter 35. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0310.htm

Tertullian (c. 155 AD – c. 240 AD) is a Chiliasm Church Father who is honoured as the Father of Latin Christianity and is regarded as the Founder of Western Theological Scholarship for his immense writing and influence toward the Christianity in the Western world.

#CoachJonathanRamachandran #AnonymousChristian #ChiliasmProphecyModel #CPM #NonElectSalvationPossibility #NESP #Book released 17 December 2024 with #Irenaeus of #Lyons #Justin of #Rome #JustinMartyr and #Tertullian #Catholic #Protestant #Orthodox #Lutheran #Methodist #Anglican #Pentecostal #Denominations .

#CPMNESPBook [Pages 53 – 56, 151 – 154]; CHILIASM & FIRST CHRISTIANITY – Slide 12 – St. Irenaeus of Lyons writes using a Mysterious phrase “New Man”. Does this include Non Elect Salvation Possibility (NESP) for Perished Sheep? Does name in Book of Life include those “saved by Fire” (1 Cor 3:15) implying Non Elect Salvation with no minimum thirtyfold reward (which is 1 Cor 3:14’s case for Christians context) or are they saved after hurt by Second Death or Spirit World Judgment? Difficult, right?

“But when this [present] fashion [of things] passes away, and man has been renewed, and flourishes in an incorruptible state, so as to preclude the possibility of becoming old, [then] there shall be the new heaven and the new earth, in which the new man shall remain [continually], always holding fresh converse with God. And since (or, that) these things shall ever continue without end, Isaiah declares, For as the new heavens and the new earth which I do make, continue in my sight, says the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. Isaiah 66:22 And as the presbyters say, Then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour shall be seen according as they who see Him shall be worthy.” [St. Irenaeus of Lyons. Against Heresies. Book 5. Chapter 36. Point 1. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103536.htm]

I mean St. Irenaeus seems to say those worthy from among the new man only get to enter the final heavens. This seems to allow for some of the “new man” to be saved but not enter the final heavens, right? (if this interpretation is accurate). If my interpolations here is true, then this “new man” could include Non Elect Salvation belonging to the class of “nations of those saved on the final new earth with kings reigning over them” where only some seem to enter into “it” where “it” here refers to the final “new Jerusalem Heavenly city” where the “Bride” or Elect Salvation is located in comparison which is consistent with St. Irenaeus’ quote here, hence a possibility.

This means that only those with names written in the Lamb’s Book of Life among the new man on the final new earth get to enter into the lowest heaven or new Jerusalem “city” called “it” in these verses here which combined with St. Irenaeus’ quote prior refers to those worthy of entering heaven, namely, all Christians or those in the wedding context (and Old Testament faithful too) since it refers only to those of thirtyfold, sixtyfold or hundredfold harvests of the Gospel as per his quote earlier.

*St. Irenaeus writes using the same phrase “seeking the sheep which had perished” in the context of spirit world salvation… whilst describing the salvation of such lost sheep below, compare:

“and descend to those things which are of the earth beneath, seeking the sheep which had perished, which was indeed His own peculiar handiwork … as the Head rose from the dead, so also the remaining part of the body — [namely, the body] of everyman who is found in life — when the time is fulfilled of that condemnation which existed by reason of disobedience, may arise, … each of the members having its own proper and fit position in the body. For there are many mansions in the Father’s house, John 14:2 inasmuch as there are also many members in the body.” [St. Irenaeus of Lyons. Against Heresies. Book 3. Chapter 19. Point 3. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103319.htm]

Also, the Sheep which has perished but saved in the Spirit World after Judgment above cannot be those saved on earth now since such sheep do not undergo any afterlife judgments, right? This also supports that Non Elect Salvation possibility based on this quote happens even now as it doesn’t look like the one time event of Christ’s Descent to save “not the perished” but primarily “Old Testament Righteous” who are not in any “disobedience”, right? The time fulfilled for disobedience given as condition for salvation for such sheep seem to imply that these sheep are sinners going through a natural judgment step. Related Bible verses and additional quotes by him to support these interpolations is in the pages listed for the #CPMNESP Book (too much to list here).

#CPMNESPBook [Pages 55 – 56, 158 – 161]; CHILIASM & FIRST CHRISTIANITY – Slide 6 – St. Irenaeus of Lyons quotes the “WEDDING” of the LAMB to refer to FIRST RESURRECTION (“times of the kingdom”) to last 1000 years with all Christians in it (Thirtyfold, Sixtyfold and Hundredfold Reward levels). So anyone saved in his quote during the “Second Resurrection” timeline is 1000 years later, MISSES the WEDDING and hence is NON ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY (NESP)?

Also, he says that the normal righteous man saved during the “Millennium” (1000 years reign of Christ) or times of the kingdom in his writing could remain on earth only and forgets to die. So could this be a class of Non Elect Salvation of those not worthy enough to be in heaven but just saved on the final new earth only? Those of the Wedding of the Lamb are based on the three harvests of the Gospel earlier namely, thirtyfold, sixtyfold and hundredfold types whichincludes “All Christians”

“2. [They say, moreover], that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundred-fold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold: for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second will dwell in paradise, the last will inhabit the city; and that was on this account the Lord declared, In My Father’s house are many mansions. John 14:2 For all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling-place; even as His Word says, that a share is allotted to all by the Father, according as each person is or shall be worthy. And this is the couch on which the guests shall recline, having been invited to the wedding. Matthew 22:10 The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, affirm that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved, and that they advance through steps of this nature; also that they ascend through the Spirit to the Son, and through the Son to the Father, and that in due time the Son will yield up His work to the Father, even as it is said by the apostle, For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1 Corinthians 15:25-26 For in the times of the kingdom, the righteous man who is upon the earth shall then forget to die.” (St. Irenaeus of Lyons. Against Heresies. Book 5. Chapter 36. Point 2. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103536.htm)

“1. Inasmuch, then, as in both Testaments there is the same righteousness of God [displayed] when God takes vengeance, in the one case indeed typically, temporarily, and more moderately; … For to whomsoever the Lord shall say, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, Matthew 25:41 these shall be damned for ever; and to whomsoever He shall say, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you for eternity, Matthew 25:34 these do receive the kingdom for ever, and make constant advance in it; since there is one and the same God the Father, and His Word, who has been always present with the human race, by means indeed of various dispensations, and has wrought out many things, and saved from the beginning those who are saved, (for these are they who love God, and follow the Word of God according to the class to which they belong,) … 3… For those points to which they call attention with regard to the God who then awarded temporal punishments to the unbelieving, and smote the Egyptians, while He saved those that were obedient; these same [facts, I say,] shall nevertheless repeat themselves in the Lord, who judges for eternity those whom He does judge, and lets go free for eternity those whom He does let go free: … But who are they that are saved now, and receive life eternal? Is it not those who love God, and who believe His promises, and who in malice have become as little children? 1 Corinthians 14:20.” (St. Irenaeus of Lyons. Against Heresies. Book 4. Chapter 28. Points 1 to 3. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103428.htm)

Note: “those saved now with inheritance” could be ‘Elect Salvation’ in comparison to those ‘let Go’ on Judgment Day only (maybe no inheritance & part of those awarded temporal punishment for unbelieving in his quote here) could be Non Elect Salvation if this interpretation is true as this Judgment occurs after the times of the kingdom:

St. Irenaeus of Lyons writes, “And in the Apocalypse John saw this new [Jerusalem] descending upon the new earth. Revelation 21:2 For after the times of the kingdom, he says, I saw a great white throne, and Him who sat upon it, from whose face the earth fled away, and the heavens; and there was no more place for them. Revelation 20:11 And he sets forth, too, the things connected with the general resurrection and the judgment, mentioning the dead, great and small.” (Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter 35), www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103535.htm and “But inasmuch as one and the same Lord has pointed out that the whole human race shall be divided at the judgment, as a shepherd divides the sheep from the goats, Matthew 25:32 and that to some He will say, Come, you blessed of My Father, receive the kingdom which has been prepared for you, Matthew 25:34 but to others, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, which My Father has prepared for the devil and his angels, Matthew 25:41” (Against Heresies, Book 4, Chapter 40), www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103440.htm

#CPMNESPBook [Pages 156 – 158]; CHILIASM & FIRST CHRISTIANITY – Slide 7 – Who are the Mysterious “Sheep of the other Fold” Christ mentions in John 10:16? Is it Gentile Sheep as many later theologians claim? Then why is the two earliest quotes on it (shown here) calls it differently? Who is right?

Both St. Justin and St. Irenaeus called the “gentile sheep” as “spotted or coloured sheep” instead of “sheep of other fold” label. This is important because spotted/coloured speaks about a physical difference on the sheep’s body (like a race) while the Koine Greek word translated as “fold” is αὐλῆς [transliterated: aulēs] which isreferring to something external namely the “house for the sheep or sheep pen” and not a physical mark on its body. This means that elect salvation sheepfold1 belongs to “house/fold in final new heavens” while in contrast the non-elect salvation sheepfold2 belongs to “house/fold in final new earth” which matches our previous possibility discussions perfectly. Around this time, Clement of Alexandria calls the “sheep of other fold” to refer to some which undergo afterlife judgments and are placed in a more inferior final place which Catholics use in support of purgatory.

St. Justin of Rome writes, “And it was foretold what each should be according to rank and according to fore-knowledge. Jacob served Laban for speckled and many-spotted sheep; and Christ served, even to the slavery of the cross, for the various and many-formed races of mankind, acquiring them by the blood and mystery of the cross.” (Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter 134), www.newadvent.org/fathers/01289.htm

St. Irenaeus of Lyons writes, “In a foreign country were the twelve tribes born, the race of Israel, inasmuch as Christ was also, in a strange country, to generate the twelve-pillared foundation of the Church. Various colored sheep were allotted to this Jacob as his wages; and the wages of Christ are human beings, who from various and diverse nations come together into one cohort of faith,” (Against Heresies, Book 4, Chapter 21), www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103421.htm

833 aule {ow-lay’} from the same as 109; a yard (as open to the wind); by implication, a mansion:–court, (sheep-)fold, hall, palace. (Strong, James. Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance, 1890, public domain), 61,

St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD) writes, “And other sheep there are also, says the Lord, which are not of this fold John 10:16 — deemed worthy of another fold and mansion, in proportion to their faith. … but though he quit the flesh, he must put off the passions, so as to be capable of reaching his own mansion. … he greatest torments, indeed, are assigned to the believer. For God’s righteousness is good, and His goodness is righteous. And though the punishments cease in the course of the completion of the expiation and purification of each one, yet those have very great and permanent grief who are found worthy of the other fold, on account of not being along with those that have been glorified through righteousness.” (The Stromata, Book 6, Chapter 14), www.newadvent.org/fathers/02106.htm

The most interesting quote regarding the “sheep of other fold” is by St. Irenaeus of Lyons which is difficult to decipher because he seems to quote a point which the gnostic heretics are right namely

“they also affirm that the Saviour came to the lost sheep, in order to transfer it to the right hand, that is, to the ninety and nine sheep which were in safety, and perished not, but continued within the fold, yet were of the left hand,” (St. Irenaeus of Lyons. Against Heresies. Book 2. Chapter 24. Point 6. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103224.htm)

but then continues to condemn their error of some type of numerology where he says that since those words assigned as a “label” to certain things on the left hand/other fold/lost sheep does not sum up to 100 but perhaps only ninety something then these remain in corruption or unsaved (implied) in his words here (i.e. though those sheep get “enjoyment of rest” but yet this does “not imply salvation” due to the silly numerology which these gnostics added but not written in any verse) here:

“they must acknowledge that the enjoyment of rest did not imply salvation”
(St. Irenaeus of Lyons. Against Heresies. Book 2. Chapter 24. Point www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103224.htm)

This “transfer” from “left hand to right hand” seems to fit the Judgment Day description of Matthew 25:31 – 46 when Christ separates the sheep from the goats placing the former in His Right Hand while the latter at His Left Hand (notice that Christ only does this during their resurrection where these sheep and goats are mingled meaning both are raised simultaneously hence more likely to be second resurrection timeline). Also, St. Irenaeus’ choice of words here seem to match these Verses (and his earlier quotes agree too). Another key point is to notice that these sheep are only saved during the second resurrection after this transfer and so seems to be non-elect salvation of sheep of other fold since the elect sheep are saved 1000 years already by now having participated in the first resurrection.

“And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.” (John 10:16, NKJV)

Am I reading Lord Jesus and Irenaeus wrongly? Difficult.

#CPMNESPBook [Pages 132 – 138]; CHILIASM & FIRST CHRISTIANITY – Slide 8 – How to understand the “till the last penny” Judgment Verses? Notice that in each quote next I show how the Chiliasm Church Fathers understood it differently meaning someone could be wrong & the meaning is not easy to know.

Tertullian repeatedly emphasizes that this till the last penny Judgment Verses represents someone who is judged in the Spirit World context and saved but is referring to fallen Christians only and this happens in the timeline now in Hades before the final judgment.

Tertullian is Father of Latin Christianity and Founder of Western Theological Scholarship.

St. Justin of Rome’s possible Non Elect Salvation quote here where he seems to compare some of those terribly wicked unable to ascend while intrinsically implying that some may have ascended out of these Spirit World punishment regions of Hades in his phrase “unless they had paid the full penalty”:

“what he had learned from the prophets about the judgment … and was lying on the funeral pile, came to life again, and described the other world. … And these, when they thought they were to ascend, the mouth would not permit, but bellowed when any of those who were so incurably wicked attempted to ascend, unless they had paid the full penalty. … and that the punishments and torments were such as these, and that, on the other hand, the rewards were the reverse of these.” [St. Justin of Rome. Hortatory Address to the Greeks. Chapter 27. Plato’s knowledge of God’s eternity. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0129.htm]

St. Justin of Rome is the Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word.

Possible Elect Salvation quote here by St. Irenaeus.

“and righteousness perfected, and that the Church may be fashioned after the image of His Son”

Possible Non Elect Salvation quote here by St. Irenaeus.

“for God has displayed long-suffering in the case of man’s apostasy; while man has been instructed by means of it, as also the prophet says, Your own apostasy shall heal you; Jeremiah 2:19 God thus determining all things beforehand for the bringing of man to perfection, … and that man may finally be brought to maturity at some future time, becoming ripe through such privileges to see and comprehend God.”

Fuller Quote:

“And again, The servant who knows his Lord’s will, and does it not, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luke 12:47 And, Why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46 And again, But if the servant say in his heart, The Lord delays, and begin to beat his fellow-servants, and to eat, and drink, and to be drunken, his Lord will come in a day on which he does not expect Him, and shall cut him in sunder, and appoint his portion with the hypocrites. Luke 12:45-46; Matthew 24:48-51 … and seeks to turn us away from [the sin of] unbelief against Him, … for God has displayed long-suffering in the case of man’s apostasy; while man has been instructed by means of it, as also the prophet says, Your own apostasy shall heal you; Jeremiah 2:19 God thus determining all things beforehand for the bringing of man to perfection, for his edification, and for the revelation of His dispensations, that goodness may both be made apparent, and righteousness perfected, and that the Church may be fashioned after the image of His Son, and that man may finally be brought to maturity at some future time, becoming ripe through such privileges to see and comprehend God.” [St. Irenaeus of Lyons. Against Heresies. Book 4. Chapter 37. Points 3, 4 and 7. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103437.htm]

Why does St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ quote here seem to differentiate between the Church and Man as Elect vs Non-Elect or am I reading him wrong? Difficult.

St. Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD) is first Doctor of the Church in order of time and Father of Catholic Theology.

#CPMNESPBook [Pages 360 – 366]; CHILIASM & FIRST CHRISTIANITY – Slide 4: There are no academic sources since no other scholar as I know noticed this possibility where – St. Irenaeus of Lyons seems to imply a clear of a thousand year gap between 1 Thess. 4:17 1 Cor. 15:52 too.

i) ii) St. Irenaeus of Lyons: The first quote I give for this part is “the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this” refers to 1 Thess.’ identifying term “rapture” or “caught up” (literally) showing St. Irenaeus believes this to happen at the Public Second Coming of Christ destroying the Antichrist and ushering in the 1000 years (so this happens at the start of the millennium). Next, I give some quotes showing that he believed only in 2 Coming of Christ (one past and next is in future public second coming) to strengthen 1 Thess. to refer to 2nd public coming of Christ. Next, I show clearly that he believes in general resurrection (2nd resurrection) to happen at the end of the 1000 years and use his quote for 1 Cor. containing the unique identifying phrase “last trumpet” this time to show it refers to a simultaneous badge of righteous vs wicked rising during 2nd resurrection and aimed as a hope toward even his “opponents” even. The “last trumpet” phrase is only found in 1 Cor. passage which describes that “change” meaning St. Irenaeus point to it to occur during 2nd resurrection timeline so since there’s a clear gap of 1000 years between the first and second resurrection, so 1 Thess. and 1 Cor. thus have a thousand year gap too.

“And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be. Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” …“But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance,” … and do not recognise the advent of Christ, which He accomplished for the salvation of men, nor are willing to understand that all the prophets announced His two advents: … but the second in which He will come on the clouds, Daniel 7:13 bringing on the day which burns as a furnace, Malachi 4:1 and smiting the earth with the word of His mouth, Isaiah 11:4 and slaying the impious with the breath of His lips, and having a fan in His hands, and cleansing His floor,” St. Irenaeus of Lyons. Against Heresies. Book 5. Chapter 29. Point 1. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103529.htm with Against Heresies. Book 5. Chapter 30. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103530.htm and Against Heresies. Book 4. Chapter 33. Point 1. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103433.htm

“And in the Apocalypse John saw this new [Jerusalem] descending upon the new earth. Revelation 21:2 For after the times of the kingdom, he says, I saw a great white throne, and Him who sat upon it, from whose face the earth fled away, and the heavens; … Revelation 20:11 And he sets forth, too, the things connected with the general resurrection and the judgment, mentioning the dead, great and small.” St. Irenaeus of Lyons. Against Heresies. Book 5. Chapter 35. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103535.htm

“1. Let our opponents — that is, they who speak against their own salvation— inform us [as to this point] … that His words concerning its [future] resurrection may also be believed; so also at the end, when the Lord utters His voice by the last trumpet, 1 Corinthians 15:52 the dead shall be raised, as He Himself declares: The hour shall come, in which all the dead which are in the tombs shall hear the voice of the Son of man, and shall come forth; those that have done good to the resurrection of life, and those that have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. John 5:28” St. Irenaeus of Lyons. Against Heresies. Book 5. Chapter 13. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103513.htm

Please notice carefully how St. Irenaeus of Lyons quotes the context for 1 Corinthians 15:52’s “the dead” and “last trumpet” (an exact phrase found only in this Bible verse) to refer to the Second Resurrection timeline which is seen when combined with his other quote here describing this timeline with the phrases after the times of the kingdom and General Resurrection and Judgment. Notice that no judgment of any wicked occurs during the First Resurrection timeline as St. Justin’s quote earlier also agrees likewise.

Another fascinating point to note is that there seems to be a “second badge of righteous” saved during the Second Resurrection since St. Irenaeus links this to Christ’s John 5:28 for a literal reading where this “second badge of righteous” saved rise simultaneously with the wicked which also agrees with Judgment Day verses of Matthew 25:31 – 46 where Christ only separates these “sheep” from goats on that Day as they rise mingled up according to these verses if literally read. This is what I call as Non Elect Salvation possibility for this “sheep of other fold” since their salvation occurs 1000 years later from the Elect Sheep (if this way of interpreting is true).

Who was he? St. Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD) is first Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology, Chiliasm Church Father, a hearer of St. Polycarp, who is an Apostolic Father being the disciple of St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation and an approved Church Father in the first Lutheran Fathers’ Book of Concord. He is venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion and Lutheran Church.

Book Links are on my Facebook “Jonathan Ramachandran” pinned post or www.AnonymousChristian.org

My #ORCID link: https://orcid.org/0009-0008-4669-1077

#1000years #gap between #Rapture #Thess417 and #1Cor1552 #Change #Bible verses.

#CPMNESPBook [Pages 155 – 156]; CHILIASM & FIRST CHRISTIANITY – Slide 5 – St. Irenaeus of Lyons usage of the phrases “times of the kingdom” as referring to “First Resurrection” and “after the times of the Kingdom” as “Second Resurrection” with Non-Elect Salvation Possibility (NESP) for those saved during the ‘Second Resurrection’ while Elect-Salvation is for those saved during the ‘First Resurrection wedding of the Lamb’ with a thousand year gap in between.

If we look at the Chiliasm quotes of St. Irenaeus, we seem to see two badges of sheep saved but 1000 years apart which can refer to elect salvation sheep (saved during the “times of the kingdom”) in the “first resurrection” vs non-elect salvation sheep (saved during “after the times of the kingdom”) in the “general resurrection” which is to happen at the “last trumpet” (since there are only two trumpets for two resurrections), hence the latter could be the sheep of the other fold. Both St. Justin and St. Irenaeus called the “gentile sheep” as “spotted or coloured sheep” instead of “sheep of other fold” label. Revelation 20:5 reads, “But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection” (NKJV).

St. Irenaeus of Lyons writes, “But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Matthew 8:11” (Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter 30), www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103530.htm and “For in the times of the kingdom, the righteous man who is upon the earth shall then forget to die. … 3. John, therefore, did distinctly foresee the first resurrection of the just, Luke 14:14 and the inheritance in the kingdom of the earth; and what the prophets have prophesied concerning it harmonize [with his vision]. For the Lord also taught these things, when He promised that He would have the mixed cup new with His disciples in the kingdom. (Against Heresies, Book 5, chapter 36), www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103536.htm and “For what are the hundred-fold [rewards] in this word, the entertainments given to the poor, and the suppers for which a return is made? These are [to take place] in the times of the kingdom, that is, upon the seventh day, … The predicted blessing, therefore, belongs unquestionably to the times of the kingdom, when the righteous shall bear rule upon their rising from the dead; when also the creation, having been renovated and set free, shall fructify with an abundance of all kinds of food, from the dew of heaven, and from the fertility of the earth: as the elders who saw John, the disciple of the Lord, related that they had heard from him how the Lord used to teach in regard to these times” (Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter 33), www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103533.htm

St. Irenaeus of Lyons writes, “1. Let our opponents — that is, they who speak against their own salvation— inform us [as to this point] … that His words concerning its [future] resurrection may also be believed; so also at the end, when the Lord utters His voice by the last trumpet, 1 Corinthians 15:52 the dead shall be raised, as He Himself declares: The hour shall come, in which all the dead which are in the tombs shall hear the voice of the Son of man, and shall come forth; those that have done good to the resurrection of life, and those that have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. John 5:28” (Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter 13), www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103513.htm

#CPMNESPBook [Pages 172 – 176]; CHILIASM & FIRST CHRISTIANITY – Slide 2 – A Major Church Father St. Gregory Nazianzus seems to point that the Context of Baptism by Fire refers to Non Elect Salvation Possibility (NESP) linking Matthew 3:11 – 12 to 1 Corinthians 3:15 here.

As a sample, I will show another quote from St. Gregory Nazianzus which shows that he seems to view some “saved by fire” (non-elect salvation for sinners who are chastised and cleansed) while “others perish in that same unquenchable fire” (the damned) which reads as follows regarding God’s Fire,

“For I know a cleansing fire which Christ came to send upon the earth, and He Himself is analogically called a Fire. … I know also a fire which is not cleansing, but avenging; either that fire of Sodom which He pours down on all sinners, mingled with brimstone and storms, or that which is prepared for the Devil and his Angels or that which proceeds from the face of the Lord, and shall burn up his enemies round about; and one even more fearful still than these, the unquenchable fire which is ranged with the worm that dieth not but is eternal for the wicked. For all these belong to the destroying power; though some may prefer even in this place to take a more merciful view of this fire, worthily of Him That chastises”. [St. Gregory Nazianzus. Oration 40. Chapter 36. www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/select-orations-334-3741-11647]

Who was he? St. Gregory Nazianzus (c. 329 AD – c. 390 AD) was the second great Greek Doctor of the Church in order of time who is also known as Gregory the Theologian or Gregory Nazianzen. He was the archbishop of Constantinople, a theologian, Great Hierarch, Cappadocian Father, Ecumenical Teacher and is an approved Church Father in the first Lutheran Fathers’ Book of Concord who is also venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion and the Lutheran Church.

Recall that St. Gregory’s famous quote pointing to the context of 1 Corinthians 3:15’s “saved by fire” case is not for Christians but novation heretics who are not following Christ’s way but their own way which is why I see it as a Non Elect Salvation “possibility” below. In order to not misquote St. Gregory’s meaning about what he meant about “judgment” context here, his other quote here seem to point to either universalism or more accurately, some type of Non Elect Salvation possibility. St. Gregory writes,

“Let these men then if they will, follow our way, which is Christ’s way; but if they will not, let them go their own. Perhaps in it they will be baptized with Fire, in that last Baptism which is more painful and longer, which devours wood like grass, 1 Corinthians 3:12-19 and consumes the stubble of every evil.” [St. Gregory Nazianzus, Oration 39, Chapter XIX, Oration on the Holy Lights, www.newadvent.org/fathers/310239.htm]

The above is probably St. Gregory’s Non Elect Salvation quote here simply because he is quoting the context of 1 Corinthians 3’s part which includes this saved by fire context and he is mentioning that fire as last Baptism where these Novation heretics (who follow their own way and not Christ’s way) still get this chance to be baptized with Fire and saved by fire as this is intrinsically implied in the quoted Bible verses below:

“If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire” (1 Corinthians 3:15, NKJV)

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Matthew 3:11 – 12, NKJV)

#CPMNESPBook [Pages 367 – 369]; CHILIASM & FIRST CHRISTIANITY – Slide 9 – Tertullian clearly writes a 1000 year gap between 1 Thessalonians 4:17’s Rapture Verse and 1 Corinthians 15:52’s “we shall be changed” Verse. If true, this proves the “last trump” (in 1 Cor. 15:52) is at end of millennium.

iii) Tertullian: Similarly, I first give a quote of Tertullian only believing in two coming of Christ (one past and future public one). Then I give a quote using 1 Thess. directly by him referring to “rapture” happening during the “public Second coming of Christ” (hence post-trib). After that, I give his quote using 1 Cor. vividly stating that “after the thousand years are over” (so 1000 year gap is literal), only then he quotes 1 Cor.’s “change” to refer from “human” to “angelic”. So, proven.

Firstly, Tertullian also only seems to know of two comings of Christ (one is past and the other is a future public second coming in all glory) as follows:

“Chapter 21. … For two comings of Christ having been revealed to us: a first, which has been fulfilled in the lowliness of a human lot; a second, which impends over the world, now near its close, in all the majesty of Deity unveiled; and, by misunderstanding the first, they have concluded that the second — which, as matter of more manifest prediction, they set their hopes on — is the only one.” [Tertullian. Apology. Chapter 21. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0301.htm ]

Tertullian understands that 1 Thessalonians 4:17 refers to post-tribulation rapture at the start of the 1000 years Millennial Reign timeline after the time of the final antichrist (“beast”):

“Now the privilege of this favour awaits those who shall at the coming of the Lord be found in the flesh, and who shall, owing to the oppressions of the time of Antichrist, deserve by an instantaneous death, which is accomplished by a sudden change, to become qualified to join the rising saints; as he writes to the Thessalonians: “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we too shall ourselves be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” [75577557 1 Thess. iv. 15–17]” [Tertullian. On the Resurrection of the Flesh. Chapter 41. www.newadvent.org/fathers/0316.htm]

Tertullian views 1 Corinthians 15:52’s change from “sinless human body” to “no more flesh and blood” clearly at end of 1000 years and has the clearest description below:

“Of the heavenly kingdom this is the process. After its thousand years are over, within which period is completed the resurrection of the saints, who rise sooner or later according to their deserts there will ensue the destruction of the world and the conflagration of all things at the judgment: we shall then be changed in a moment into the substance of angels, even by the investiture of an incorruptible nature, and so be removed to that kingdom in heaven … But the resurrection is one thing, and the kingdom is another. The resurrection is first, and afterwards the kingdom. We say, therefore, that the flesh rises again, but that when changed it obtains the kingdom. [Tertullian. Against Marcion. Book 3, Chapter 25. www.newadvent.org/fathers/03123.htm] … and we shall be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye … in order, indeed, that it may be rendered a fit substance for the kingdom of God. “For we shall be like the angels.” This will be the perfect change of our flesh—only after its resurrection. … Having then become something else by its change, it will obtain the kingdom of God, no longer the (old) flesh and blood, but the body which God shall have given it. Rightly then does the apostle declare, “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;” for this (honour) does he ascribe to the changed condition which ensues on the resurrection.” [Tertullian. Against Marcion. Book 5, Chapter 10. www.newadvent.org/fathers/03125.htm]

Tertullian is Father of Latin Christianity and Founder of Western Theological Scholarship.

Book Description

This Book offers new insights to old ideas. Chiliasm Prophecy Model is resurrected from the writings of three principal legendary Church Fathers of the Christian faith: St. Irenaeus of Lyons, St. Justin of Rome (Justin Martyr) and Tertullian. New theological discoveries by the author are presented throughout the book: For example, did you know that the famous “Rapture” verse (1 Thessalonians 4:17) and the “change in twinkling of any eye” oracle (1 Corinthians 15:50 – 52) could be referring two different events which are separated by 1000 years? Sometimes the writing takes a dialogue form where the author states the questions with which he wrestles with whenever he quotes old Christian works providing insightful academic comments as well in the process. Every ancient writing quoted has never been condemned by classical Christianity and so it’s a must read for Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox alike (while some of these writings has been considered canonical Scripture by considerable parts of Christendom). A serious implication of the Chiliast prophecy “possibility” regarding the new “Non Elect Salvation” concept invented by the author is presented in light of this Model. Mysterious quotes from other Church Fathers and some renown Christians are presented together with interpretation and interpolations of difficult Bible verses to support it. This Book is not fully doctrine since we cannot be sure 100% regarding the prophecy part and rather attempts to do an honest excursion rather than a ‘Mr. Know it all’ type of attitude.

This book studies an entirely new concept which is non elect salvation. I invented the academic term “Non Elect Salvation” to denote this possibility. The idea is that there is a salvation outside of the Christian Salvation (which is the well known Elect Salvation) and it differs in the time which it occurs (second resurrection), the final abode (final new earth), the judgment it endures (saved by fire, purified, sanctified) and even the type of bodily resurrection (terrestrial) which entails it. The recipients of this salvation could include both fallen Christians as well as non-Christians. A structure of proof is presented based on the fundamental notion of “no prophecy is of any private interpretation” (2 Peter 1:20) where the Chiliasm Church Fathers St. Justin of Rome (Justin Martyr) and St. Irenaeus of Lyons are primarily consulted followed by Tertullian, St. Methodius of Olympus and St. Victorinus of Pettau too. Where there is difference in their writings, I prefer to stick to St. Justin and St. Irenaeus for accuracy because they are earlier and boast of a closer relationship to the lineage of the Blessed apostles themselves. A key point to note is the challenge to the popular modern view that 1 Corinthians 15:50 – 52 refers to rapture but these Chiliasm fathers seem to point to 1000 years in human body first before a change into no more flesh and blood (or angelic) at the end of the Millennial Reign and other aspects are presented to match it. This is my original research and I have not seen any other scholar viewing 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 as two different prophecies as I learnt it from these quotes. Apart from that, I study other aspects of Chiliasm Prophecy to build a rigorous Model so that it can be considered a possibility of truth.

The book has brand new theological interpolations not found in any other book. For example, the claim of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 is separated by 1000 years, Baptism by Fire perspective as Spirit World Judgment with a Chiliasm touch, Post-Mortem salvation ideas different from universalism and even discusses whether Matthew 19 can be seen as a two-fold response revealing Non-Elect Salvation vs Elect Salvation. Please read the conclusion of the book to understand the “new” discoveries proposed as possibilities (too much to list here individually for the “my interpolations” part).

First Christianity: Chiliasm Prophecy Model

and

Non Elect Salvation Possibility

Jonathan Ramachandran

Table of Contents

1. Literal or Allegory – Will the Final New Earth Really have No Sea? ……… 2

2. Earth and Heaven: An Heavenly Temple and but Two Jerusalem(s)? …… 7

3. Is Apocalypse’s “Coming like a Thief” after the 6th Bowl? ……….………. 14

4. Renewed Old Earth and Old Heavens Chiliasm Context …………………. 20

5. Will all Christians be in the First Resurrection? …………………………… 39

6. Shadow of Death Possibly describing Non Elect Salvation ………………. 94

7. Did St. Justin of Rome teach Non Elect Salvation? ……………………… 112

8. Tertullian did not Teach Non Elect Salvation but could he have Erred? ……………………………………………………. 131

9. Did St. Irenaeus of Lyons Possibly Teach

Non Elect Salvation for Some? ……………………………………………… 146

10. Baptism by Fire ………………………………………………………………… 171

11. Other Church Fathers or Quotes for Non Elect Salvation ……………. 207

12. Charity Doctrine Prophecy Insights from Chiliasm Church Fathers . 310

13. Chiliasm Prophecy Refutation of the Prosperity Gospel ………………. 322

14. Prophecy of 5 Wise and 5 Foolish Virgins in Chiliasm ………………… 332

15. Thousand Year Gap for Prophecy in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 with Chiliasm Church Fathers …………………….. 355

16. Did Christ imply Non Elect Salvation in Matthew 19? ………………… 375

17. Two Water of Life References Separated by 1000 years? ……………… 389

Conclusion …………………………………………………………………..………. 414

Appendix I: Miscellaneous ………………………………………………………… 420

Appendix II: An Important Note on Methodology ……………………………. 481

Sources .…………..………………………………………………………………….. 487

First Christianity: Chiliasm Prophecy Model

and

Non Elect Salvation Possibility

Jonathan Ramachandran

1. Literal or Allegory – Will the Final New Earth Really have No Sea?

1) Bible Verses:

A literal sea exists during the Millennial Reign of Christ with mortals fishing there for food too.

“7When I returned, there, along the bank of the river, were very many trees on one side and the other. 8Then he said to me: “This water flows toward the eastern region, goes down into the [b]valley, and enters the sea. When it reaches the sea, its waters are healed. 9And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever [c]the rivers go, will live. There will be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters go there; for they will be healed, and everything will live wherever the river goes. 10It shall be that fishermen will stand by it from En Gedi to En Eglaim; they will be places for spreading their nets. Their fish will be of the same kinds as the fish of the Great Sea, exceedingly many.” [1]

This literal sea exists until Judgment Day when the dead in it are returned for bodily resurrection and judgment.

“11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” [2]

The Old Earth with literal sea was touched by sin. After Great White Throne Judgment Day, the New Earth which is never touched by sin has no more sea literally.

“1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.” [3]

2) St. Irenaeus of Lyons [4] writes that there is a literal sea during the “times of the kingdom” and it lasts until the end of that 1000 years Millennial Reign age where at the end of it, the sea gives up even the dead which are in it for Great White Throne Judgment Day which follows next after the times of the kingdom.

“But in the times of the kingdom, the earth has been called again by Christ [to its pristine condition], and Jerusalem rebuilt after the pattern of the Jerusalem above, of which the prophet Isaiah says, Behold, I have depicted your walls upon my hands, and you are always in my sight. Isaiah 49:16 And the apostle, too, writing to the Galatians, says in like manner, But the Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Galatians 4:26 He does not say this with any thought of an erratic Æon, or of any other power which departed from the Pleroma, or of Prunicus, but of the Jerusalem which has been delineated on [God’s] hands. And in the Apocalypse John saw this new [Jerusalem] descending upon the new earth. Revelation 21:2 For after the times of the kingdom, he says, I saw a great white throne, and Him who sat upon it, from whose face the earth fled away, and the heavens; and there was no more place for them. Revelation 20:11 And he sets forth, too, the things connected with the general resurrection and the judgment, mentioning the dead, great and small. The sea, he says, gave up the dead which it had in it, and death and hell delivered up the dead that they contained; and the books were opened. Moreover, he says, the book of life was opened, and the dead were judged out of those things that were written in the books, according to their works; and death and hell were sent into the lake of fire, the second death. Revelation 20:12-14 Now this is what is called Gehenna, which the Lord styled eternal fire. Matthew 25:41 And if any one, it is said, was not found written in the book of life, he was sent into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15 And after this, he says, I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth have passed away; also there was no more sea.” [5]

For some other discussion regarding this quote please refer to my earlier books (pdf) as well [6].

3) St. Irenaeus of Lyons continues from his writing above to warn against any allegorical interpretations of the aforementioned Book of Revelation passages quoted prior reinforcing that these parts are meant literally. Notice how he says that the ‘earthly new Jerusalem’ in during the “times of the kingdom” is the ‘image’ (allegory, not actual) while the ‘Heavenly New Jerusalem’ which descends from heaven “after the times of the kingdom” as per his quote earlier is the ‘object’ (literal, actual) below.

“Now this is what has been said by the apostle: For the fashion of this world passes away. 1 Corinthians 7:31 To the same purpose did the Lord also declare, Heaven and earth shall pass away. Matthew 24:35 When these things, therefore, pass away above the earth, John, the Lord’s disciple, says that the new Jerusalem above shall [then] descend, as a bride adorned for her husband; and that this is the tabernacle of God, in which God will dwell with men. Of this Jerusalem the former one is an image — that Jerusalem of the former earth in which the righteous are disciplined beforehand for incorruption and prepared for salvation. And of this tabernacle Moses received the pattern in the mount; Exodus 25:40 and nothing is capable of being allegorized, but all things are steadfast, and true, and substantial, having been made by God for righteous men’s enjoyment. For as it is God truly who raises up man, so also does man truly rise from the dead, and not allegorically, as I have shown repeatedly. And as he rises actually, so also shall he be actually disciplined beforehand for incorruption, and shall go forwards and flourish in the times of the kingdom, in order that he may be capable of receiving the glory of the Father. Then, when all things are made new, he shall truly dwell in the city of God. For it is said, He that sits on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And the Lord says, Write all this; for these words are faithful and true. And He said to me, They are done. Revelation 21:5-6 And this is the truth of the matter.” [7]

4) Tertullian [8] argues next similarly like St. Irenaeus of Lyons earlier that the “sea” will literally be “no more” because God cannot use this current old earth (which sin has touched, hence perishable) to be part of His “eternal” things which must thus be created “new” with things which “no” sin has touched, hence imperishable.

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, Matthew 24:35 says He. The first heaven and the first earth passed away, Revelation 21:1 and there was found no place for them, Revelation 20:11 because, of course, that which comes to an end loses locality. In like manner David says, The heavens, the works of Your hands, shall themselves perish. For even as a vesture shall He change them, and they shall be changed. Now to be changed is to fall from that primitive state which they lose while undergoing the change. And the stars too shall fall from heaven, even as a fig-tree casts her green figs when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Revelation 6:13 The mountains shall melt like wax at the presence of the Lord; that is, when He rises to shake terribly the earth. Isaiah 2:19 But I will dry up the pools; Isaiah 42:15 and they shall seek water, and they shall find none. Isaiah 41:17 Even the sea shall be no more. Now if any person should go so far as to suppose that all these passages ought to be spiritually interpreted, he will yet be unable to deprive them of the true accomplishment of those issues which must come to pass just as they have been written. For all figures of speech necessarily arise out of real things, not out of chimerical ones; because nothing is capable of imparting anything of its own for a similitude, except it actually be that very thing which it imparts in the similitude. I return therefore to the principle which defines that all things which have come from nothing shall return at last to nothing. For God would not have made any perishable thing out of what was eternal, that is to say, out of Matter; neither out of greater things would He have created inferior ones, to whose character it would be more agreeable to produce greater things out of inferior ones — in other words, what is eternal out of what is perishable.” [9]

2. Earth and Heaven: An Heavenly Temple and but Two Jerusalem(s)?

1) Bible Verses speaking of a literal “Temple” existing in heaven now because the 7 last plagues for “Wrath of God” context has not been fulfilled yet:

“1Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete. … 5After these things I looked, and [c]behold, the [d]temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened. 6And out of the [e]temple came the seven angels having the seven plagues, clothed in pure bright linen, and having their chests girded with golden bands. 7Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever. 8The temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power, and no one was able to enter the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed.” [10]

This Wrath of God begins to happen during the time of the final Antichrist (who issues the “mark of the beast”) which is recorded in the Apocalypse with Angels moving in and out of the Heavenly “Temple” at that time proving its existence again:

“1Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the [a]bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.” 2So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a [b]foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. … 17Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.” [11]

2) Bible Verses speaking of a literal “Temple” existing not just in heaven now but lasting into the 1000 years Millennial Reign because it is mentioned together with the ones who came out of the final great tribulation (so ‘all Christians’, implied) and serve Him day and night in His Temple thereafter. Notice that this is a Heavenly Temple since it is before the Throne of God and they partake of the ‘Water of Life’ or Living Waters at this time too:

“13Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” 14And I said to him, [b]“Sir, you know.” So he said to me, ‘These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to [c]living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’ ” [12]

In another chapter, we know that when the seventh angel has sounded, the Millennial Reign of Christ begins (implied) as He takes over the kingdoms of the earth during His Second Coming literally and so this is at the start of 1000 years (implied) where the Temple is mentioned exclusively too as follows:

“15Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The [f]kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” 16And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God 17saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was [g]and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. … 19Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of [i]His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.” [13]

All the above happens in the old earth and heavens which is discussed further in Chapter 4 later. Lastly, notice the comparison that there is no more “physical” Temple in that final New Earth nor in the final New Heavenly Jerusalem context in Bible Verses next:

“1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2Then I, [a]John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.” … 14Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the [j]names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. … 21The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass. … 22But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine [l]in it, for the [m]glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24And the nations [n]of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.” [14]

So, there is no more physical Temple on earth nor in heaven after the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ (or “Millennium”) is over. Yes, this is not the Millennium as some allegorical interpretations err especially since the Lamb’s Book of Life results have been revealed. Millennium occurs before the second resurrection and the second resurrection is when the great white throne judgment occurs which has the Book of Life results for those who defile or cause an abomination and lie to be judged, verses:

“5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished … 11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” [15]

An implication is that the “Water of Life” references found in these chapters (Revelation 21:6) [16], may thus be happening at the end of this 1000 years too if read literally like this implying possible Non Elect Salvation for some of those of the second resurrection since even the Bride (Elect Salvation) who are already saved for 1000 years by now calls to them to drink of it in their final sinless human (terrestrial/earthly, implied) resurrection bodies at this time (Revelation 22:17) [17].

Please remember that the “First Resurrection” is not occurring spiritually nor allegorically now in any way because “bodily resurrection” is meant only in Holy Scripture when the word “resurrection” is used and this is even more clear in Bible Verses next when seen together with the fact that this First Resurrection only happens after the coming of the “Last Antichrist (“Beast”) since it involves also those who were beheaded for not receiving his mark on their foreheads and hands (indicating clearly again that no ‘first resurrection’ can happen before this final antichrist season is over first below):

“4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.” [18]

In the only Chiliasm quote (next) which I could find relating to these listed Bible Verses, we see that the “physical Temple in the Heavens” literally exists now and into the Millennium because it stands to receive the gifts and offerings at the altar by mortal sinners. This agrees with the fact that in the final new earth and heavens, no more mortals/sinners exist on it so there is no need for any physical temple anymore (Revelation 21:22).

“thus is it, therefore, also His will that we, too, should offer a gift at the altar, frequently and without intermission. The altar, then, is in heaven (for towards that place are our prayers and oblations directed); the temple likewise [is there], as John says in the Apocalypse, And the temple of God was opened: Revelation 11:19 the tabernacle also: For, behold, He says, the tabernacle of God, in which He will dwell with men.” [19]

Compare:

“who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” [20]

Last but not least, notice that there is “Day and Night” in the Temple during the Millennial Reign on Old Earth/Old Heavens timeline but 1000 years later on the final New Earth/New Heavens, there is “No Night” there in the “New Jerusalem City”, meaning these are different timelines, right? compare:

“14And I said to him, [b]“Sir, you know.” So he said to me, ‘These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple.” [21]

“1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. … 22But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine [l]in it, for the [m]glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24And the nations [n]of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.” [22]

3. Is Apocalypse’s “Coming like a Thief” after the 6th Bowl?

1) Notice that only after the bowl of God’s Wrath is poured out by the workings of the 6^th Angel, Christ issues the “Thief in the Night” Second Coming phrase meaning it has not happened yet. If literally read like this, since it is written precisely just after the “sixth bowl”, so it means the “Thief in the Night Second Coming of Christ” has not happened even then which contradicts any pre-tribulation rapture position since they believe it happens even before the “first bowl”, right? This supports post-tribulation rapture only since the “first bowl” is only poured out after the Antichrist has decreed his ungodly “mark of the beast” first as these Bible Verses read in “chronology” as it is written next:

“2So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a [b]foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. … 12Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. 13And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings [g]of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15“Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” 16And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, [h]Armageddon.” [23]

Notice that the warning “I am coming as a thief” is only given after the sixth angel poured out his bowl meaning the “Secret Coming of Christ” pre-tribulation rapture believers claim seems highly unlikely for if so, then the warning should have been issued even before the first bowl so that they can escape all these, right? This does not support the mid-tribulation position either simply because this “mark of the beast” context described earlier happens before the first bowl of God’s Wrath where the “mark of the beast” happens during the last 3.5 years (42 months) of the 7 year final Antichrist’s reign as other Bible verses reveal below (which implies no one seems to escape in a “secret mid-tribulation rapture either just before this last 3.5 years” since even the context of the “I am coming as a thief” phrase only occurs much later after the 6^th bowl is poured out as shown earlier), compare:

“3And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?” 5And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to [c]continue for forty-two months.” … 15He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17and that no one may buy or sell except one who has [g]the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.” [24]

Here are other “thief in the night” type of Bible Verses for comparison too:

If the day and hour is literal, verses like this can mean that Christians already know that Christ will be coming back anytime when they see the Antichrist killing and persecuting them since they will not take the mark of the beast nor worship his image but only are unsure about which day and hour. It is also to be noted that Christ only uses singular for the Coming of Christ and never a plural supporting the 1 public coming of Christ view.

“36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of [f]heaven, but My Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what [g]hour your Lord is coming. 43But know this, that if the master of the house had known what [h]hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.” [25]

This next verse by Apostle St. Peter himself uses the similar “thief in the night” phrase but it clearly seems to be public Coming of Christ since the elements melt in heat and it involves the whole earth and also there is great noise too which all speaks of possibly the renewal of the old earth as the Millennium begins in Chiliasm timeline.

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.” [26]

In another instance, we find Lord Jesus Christ Himself using a similar “I will come upon you as a thief” and “you will not know what hour I will come upon you” phrases while describing an exhortation and warning message to the first century Church at Sardis to be faithful in their works bringing up the obvious question that this phrase is to be applied generally toward any Christian in the context of being holy and doing good works which are complete in the eyes of God since that’s the context next and not some secret nor public coming of Christ which did not occur in the first century either:

“1“And to the [a]angel of the church in Sardis write, ‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before [b]God. 3Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4[c]You have a few names [d]even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.” [27]

2) For me, it seems clear that the thief in the night phrase seems to refer to His only one Second Coming after the final antichrist’s mayhem and at the same time can be used as an allegory for Christians to be faithful at any time too.

Also, Tertullian’s quote below using this thief in the night phrase together with Thessalonians letter is important because he does not seem to separate the two sets of verses as two events (i.e. one secret coming of Christ versus one public coming of Christ) as some pre-tribulation rapture believers do but rather views the whole thing as a single event referring to one public Coming of Christ only which is clearly after the final Antichrist below:

“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, there is no necessity for my writing unto you. For you yourselves know perfectly, that the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, ‘Peace,’ and ‘All things are safe,’ then sudden destruction shall come upon them. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 Again, in the second epistle he addresses them with even greater earnestness: Now I beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him, that you be not soon shaken in mind, nor be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, that is, the word of false prophets, or by letter, that is, the letter of false apostles, as if from us, as that the day of the Lord is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means. For that day shall not come, unless indeed there first come a falling away, he means indeed of this present empire, and that man of sin be revealed, that is to say, Antichrist, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or religion; so that he sits in the temple of God, affirming that he is God. Do you not remember, that when I was with you, I used to tell you these things? And now you know what detains, that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity does already work; only he who now hinders must hinder, until he be taken out of the way. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-7 What obstacle is there but the Roman state, the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce Antichrist upon (its own ruins)? And then shall be revealed the wicked one, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: even him whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-10” [28]

3) I could not find one Chiliasm Church Father quote who says that any of the “thief in the night” Bible verse above refers to a “secret” coming of Christ as pre-tribulation rapture believers teach. In fact, with the primary verse claimed to mean pre-tribulation rapture, namely 1 Thessalonians 4:17, I have shown that each Chiliasm Church Father with a quote on it or regarding the Second Coming of Christ context only seems to know of 1 public Second Coming of Christ which is after the reign of terror by the last antichrist or beast. This was done in my earlier work with quotes by St. Justin of Rome [29], St. Irenaeus of Lyons [30], Tertullian [31], St. Victorinus of Pettau [32] [33]and St. Methodius of Olympus [34] [35].

4. Renewed Old Earth and Old Heavens Chiliasm Context

1) Both St. Irenaeus of Lyons and Tertullian affirm that the current old earth will be restored or healed so that Christians can enjoy it as per God’s Will in Genesis during the First Resurrection after the Second Coming of Christ.

“1. … they are both ignorant of God’s dispensations, and of the mystery of the resurrection of the just, and of the [earthly] kingdom which is the commencement of incorruption, … when they rise again to behold God in this creation which is renovated, and that the judgment should take place afterwards. For it is just that in that very creation in which they toiled or were afflicted, being proved in every way by suffering, they should receive the reward of their suffering; … It is fitting, therefore, that the creation itself, being restored to its primeval condition, should without restraint be under the dominion of the righteous; and the apostle has made this plain in the Epistle to the Romans.” [36]

Tertullian clearly mentions the earthly dispensation part for the First Resurrection and Millennial Reign which refers to this old earth being renewed to be the initial reward for Christians:

“Chapter 25. … as a recompense for those which in the world we have either despised or lost; … His servants should have their joy in the place where they have also suffered affliction for His name’s sake. Of the heavenly kingdom this is the process. After its thousand years are over, within which period is completed the resurrection of the saints, who rise sooner or later according to their deserts there will ensue the destruction of the world and the conflagration of all things at the judgment: … — are not these the indications both of an earthly and a heavenly dispensation?” [37]

2) The Bible verse in Romans for this part reads:

“18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of [f]corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.” [38]

How do we know that these verses refer to a renewed old earth?

Continuing deeper from St. Irenaeus’ quote earlier:

“when they rise again to behold God in this creation which is renovated, … It is fitting, therefore, that the creation itself, being restored to its primeval condition, should without restraint be under the dominion of the righteous; and the apostle has made this plain in the Epistle to the Romans, when he thus speaks: For the expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature has been subjected to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who has subjected the same in hope; since the creature itself shall also be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the sons of God. Romans 8:19, etc. … 2. Thus, then, the promise of God, which He gave to Abraham, … For all the earth which you see I will give to you and to your seed, even forever. … But the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, declared to Abraham beforehand, That in you shall all nations be blessed. … Galatians 3:6, etc. Thus, then, they who are of faith shall be blessed with faithful Abraham, and these are the children of Abraham. Now God made promise of the earth to Abraham and his seed; yet neither Abraham nor his seed, that is, those who are justified by faith, do now receive any inheritance in it; but they shall receive it at the resurrection of the just. For God is true and faithful; and on this account He said, Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5” [39]

Tertullian describes the Millennial Reign of Christ timeline to have literal fulfilment of things like animals being harmonious with nature and being non-violent too and that during this same 1000 years the Devil is locked up in the bottomless pit [40] meaning it cannot be allegorically now since the animal part and all that are not fulfilled currently in parallel as he says below:

“But, as the argument now stands, since what is eternal can be deemed evil, the evil must prove to be invincible and insuperable, as being eternal; and in that case it will be in vain that we labour to put away evil from the midst of us; 1 Corinthians 5:13 in that case, moreover, God vainly gives us such a command and precept; nay more, in vain has God appointed any judgment at all, when He means, indeed, to inflict punishment with injustice. But if, on the other hand, there is to be an end of evil, when the chief thereof, the devil, shall go away into the fire which God has prepared for him and his angels Matthew 25:41 — having been first cast into the bottomless pit; Revelation 20:3 when likewise the manifestation of the children of God Romans 8:19 shall have delivered the creature Romans 8:21 from evil, which had been made subject to vanity; Romans 8:20 when the cattle restored in the innocence and integrity of their nature shall be at peace with the beasts of the field, when also little children shall play with serpents; Isaiah 11:6 when the Father shall have put beneath the feet of His Son His enemies, as being the workers of evil — if in this way an end is compatible with evil, it must follow of necessity that a beginning is also compatible with it; and Matter will turn out to have a beginning, by virtue of its having also an end.” [41]

St. Irenaeus claims that all these First Resurrection of the Just events regarding the promise of inheritance on the old earth is taught by the Lord Himself:

“3. John, therefore, did distinctly foresee the first resurrection of the just, Luke 14:14 and the inheritance in the kingdom of the earth; and what the prophets have prophesied concerning it harmonize [with his vision]. For the Lord also taught these things, when He promised that He would have the mixed cup new with His disciples in the kingdom. The apostle, too, has confessed that the creation shall be free from the bondage of corruption, [so as to pass] into the liberty of the sons of God. Romans 8:21 And in all these things, and by them all, the same God the Father is manifested, who fashioned man, and gave promise of the inheritance of the earth to the fathers, who brought it (the creature) forth [from bondage] at the resurrection of the just, and fulfils the promises for the kingdom of His Son; subsequently bestowing in a paternal manner those things which neither the eye has seen, nor the ear has heard, nor has [thought concerning them] arisen within the heart of man, 1 Corinthians 2:9; Isaiah 64:4 For there is the one Son, who accomplished His Father’s will; and one human race also in which the mysteries of God are wrought, which the angels desire to look into; 1 Peter 1:12 and they are not able to search out the wisdom of God, by means of which His handiwork, confirmed and incorporated with His Son, is brought to perfection;” [42]

2) Isaiah 11:6 – 10 for this renewed earth Millennial Reign of Christ promise (i.e. in that Day) reads:

“6“The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, The leopard shall lie down with the young goat, The calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little child shall lead them. 7The cow and the bear shall graze; Their young ones shall lie down together; And the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole, And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den. 9They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. 10’And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, Who shall stand as a banner to the people; For the Gentiles shall seek Him, And His resting place shall be glorious.’ ” [43]

Tertullian strongly emphasizes that these passages have a literal fulfilment in the Millennium after the resurrection (implied) since these do not occur now though its allegorical fulfilment can occur now in faith (both true; meaning the literal will happen also!):

“Happily the Creator has promised by Isaiah to give this power even to little children, of putting their hand in the cockatrice den and on the holeof the young asps without at all receiving hurt. Isaiah 11:8-9 And, indeed, we are aware (without doing violence to the literal sense of the passage, since even these noxious animals have actually been unable to do hurt where there has been faith) that under the figure of scorpions and serpents are portended evil spirits, whose very prince is described by the name of serpent, dragon, and every other most conspicuous beast in the power of the Creator. This power the Creator conferred first of all upon His Christ, even as the ninetieth Psalm says to Him: Upon the asp and the basilisk shall You tread; the lion and the dragon shall You trample under foot.” [44]

St. Irenaeus of Lyons mentions that the “direct disciples of the Apostles” such as “St. Papias of Hierapolis” taught a literal Chiliasm bodily resurrection for all Christians in a renewed old earth which produces various kinds of food and also that the animals cease to be carnivores in His Holy Mountain literally while the allegorical meanings of these passages such as this can refer to the repentance and taming of the wild Gentile habits to be true simultaneously revealing the two fold depth of Scriptural interpretation (I repeat, both true agreeing to Tertullian earlier too) in his quote next:

“The predicted blessing, therefore, belongs unquestionably to the times of the kingdom, when the righteous shall bear rule upon their rising from the dead; when also the creation, having been renovated and set free, shall fructify with an abundance of all kinds of food, from the dew of heaven, and from the fertility of the earth: as the elders who saw John, the disciple of the Lord, related that they had heard from him how the Lord used to teach in regard to these times, and say: The days will come, in which vines shall grow, each having ten thousand branches, and in each branch ten thousand twigs, and in each true twig ten thousand shoots, and in each one of the shoots ten thousand clusters, and on every one of the clusters ten thousand grapes, and every grape when pressed will give five and twenty metretes of wine. And when any one of the saints shall lay hold of a cluster, another shall cry out, I am a better cluster, take me; bless the Lord through me. In like manner [the Lord declared] that a grain of wheat would produce ten thousand ears, and that every ear should have ten thousand grains, and every grain would yield ten pounds (quinque bilibres) of clear, pure, fine flour; and that all other fruit-bearing trees, and seeds and grass, would produce in similar proportions (secundum congruentiam iis consequentem); and that all animals feeding [only] on the productions of the earth, should [in those days] become peaceful and harmonious among each other, and be in perfect subjection to man.

4. And these things are borne witness to in writing by Papias, the hearer of John, and a companion of Polycarp, in his fourth book; for there were five books compiled (συντεταγμένα) by him. And he says in addition, Now these things are credible to believers. And he says that, when the traitor Judas did not give credit to them, and put the question, ‘How then can things about to bring forth so abundantly be wrought by the Lord.’ the Lord declared, ‘They who shall come to these [times] shall see.’ When prophesying of these times, therefore, Esaias says: The wolf also shall feed with the lamb, and the leopard shall take his rest with the kid; the calf also, and the bull, and the lion shall eat together; and a little boy shall lead them. The ox and the bear shall feed together, and their young ones shall agree together; and the lion shall eat straw as well as the ox. And the infant boy shall thrust his hand into the asp’s den, into the nest also of the adder’s brood; and they shall do no harm, nor have power to hurt anything in my holy mountain. And again he says, in recapitulation, Wolves and lambs shall then browse together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and the serpent earth as if it were bread; and they shall neither hurt nor annoy anything in my holy mountain, says the Lord. Isaiah 40:6, etc. I am quite aware that some persons endeavour to refer these words to the case of savage men, both of different nations and various habits, who come to believe, and when they have believed, act in harmony with the righteous. But although this is [true] now with regard to some men coming from various nations to the harmony of the faith, nevertheless in the resurrection of the just [the words shall also apply] to those animals mentioned. For God is rich in all things. And it is right that when the creation is restored, all the animals should obey and be in subjection to man, and revert to the food originally given by God (for they had been originally subjected in obedience to Adam), that is, the productions of the earth. But some other occasion, and not the present, is [to be sought] for showing that the lion shall [then] feed on straw. And this indicates the large size and rich quality of the fruits. For if that animal, the lion, feeds upon straw [at that period], of what a quality must the wheat itself be whose straw shall serve as suitable food for lions?” [45]

Please also notice carefully that the only one who clearly doubted the literal aspect of this Chiliasm Prophecy was none other than the traitor Judas to whom Christ replied as follows:

“when the traitor Judas did not give credit to them, and put the question, ‘How then can things about to bring forth so abundantly be wrought by the Lord.’ the Lord declared, ‘They who shall come to these [times] shall see.’”

3) Isaiah 65’s promise for the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ on a renewed old earth reads:

“17“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or [f]come to mind.18But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, And her people a joy. 19I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying. 20“No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. 21They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. 22They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. 23They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord, And their offspring with them. 24“It shall come to pass That before they call, I will answer; And while they are still speaking, I will hear. 25The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, The lion shall eat straw like the ox, And dust shall be the serpent’s food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,” Says the Lord.” [46]

Example Verse which proves mortals (sinners) living alongside resurrected Christian immortals at that time is Isaiah 65:17, 20 [47]during the Millennial Reign meaning this must thus happen on current “Old” earth only since it can still be touched by those in sin while the final “New” Earth in comparison cannot be touched by sin at all.

But doesn’t Isaiah 65:17 say this is to happen on “new earth/heavens” and not on “old earth/heavens”? This is because the context of the Isaiah prophecy is talking about a renewed old earth containing the old earthly Jerusalem too and not the final new earth/heavens [48] (Revelation 21:1 – 3) and this I learnt from St. Justin of Rome who quotes Isaiah 65:17 in this way for First Resurrection context which lasts 1000 years here:

“But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare. For Isaiah spake thus concerning this space of a thousand years: ‘For there shall be the new heaven and the new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, or come into their heart; but they shall find joy and gladness in it, which things I create’. For, Behold, I make Jerusalem a rejoicing, and My people a joy; and I shall rejoice over Jerusalem, and be glad over My people. And the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, or the voice of crying. And there shall be no more there a person of immature years, or an old man who shall not fulfil his days. For the young man shall be an hundred years old; but the sinner who dies an hundred years old, he shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and shall themselves inhabit them; and they shall plant vines, and shall themselves eat the produce of them, and drink the wine. They shall not build, and others inhabit; they shall not plant, and others eat. For according to the days of the tree of life shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound. Mine elect shall not toil fruitlessly, or beget children to be cursed; for they shall be a seed righteous and blessed by the Lord, and their offspring with them. And it shall come to pass, that before they call I will hear; while they are still speaking, I shall say, What is it? Then shall the wolves and the lambs feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox; but the serpent [shall eat] earth as bread. They shall not hurt or maltreat each other on the holy mountain, says the Lord.

Now we have understood that the expression used among these words, ‘According to the days of the tree [of life ] shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound’ obscurely predicts a thousand years. For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, ‘They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.’ Luke 20:35f. ” [49]

4) Existence of a physical moon and sun in the Jerusalem city can indicate whether such Bible verses are speaking about the old earth/old heavens context or new earth /new heavens.

Physical moon and sun impact the old Jerusalem on old earth which is contrasted against the heavenly Jerusalem in Mount Zion [50](implied) in that Day referring to the Millennium timeline.

“21It shall come to pass in that day, That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones, And on the earth the kings of the earth. 22They will be gathered together, As prisoners are gathered in the [f]pit, And will be shut up in the prison; After many days they will be punished. Then the moon will be disgraced And the sun ashamed; For the LORD of hosts will reign On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem And before His elders, gloriously.” [51]

Prophet Isaiah also reveals that the light from the sun and its reflection on the moon will be brighter literally during the Millennium (1000 years), i.e. in that Day.

“26Moreover the light of the moon will be as the light of the sun, And the light of the sun will be sevenfold, As the light of seven days, In the day that the Lord binds up the bruise of His people And heals the stroke of their wound.” [52]

St. Irenaeus confirms that the context of these verses refer to the times of the kingdom or First Resurrection in the renewed old earth context and nothing allegorical about the sun/moon fulfilment in his words next.

“2. That the whole creation shall, according to God’s will, obtain a vast increase, that it may bring forth and sustain fruits such [as we have mentioned], Isaiah declares: And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every prominent hill, water running everywhere in that day, when many shall perish, when walls shall fall. And the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, seven times that of the day, when He shall heal the anguish of His people, and do away with the pain of His stroke. Isaiah 30:25-26 Now the pain of the stroke means that inflicted at the beginning upon disobedient man in Adam, that is, death; which [stroke] the Lord will heal when He raises us from the dead, and restores the inheritance of the fathers, as Isaiah again says: And you shall be confident in the Lord, and He will cause you to pass over the whole earth, and feed you with the inheritance of Jacob your father. Isaiah 58:14 This is what the Lord declared: Happy are those servants whom the Lord when He comes shall find watching. Verily I say unto you, that He shall gird Himself, and make them to sit down [to meat], and will come forth and serve them. And if He shall come in the evening watch, and find them so, blessed are they, because He shall make them sit down, and minister to them; or if this be in the second, or it be in the third, blessed are they. Luke 12:37-38 Again John also says the very same in the Apocalypse: Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Revelation 20:6” [53]

Notice an interesting point in the last sentences of St. Irenaeus’ words above where he quotes the context of Luke 12:37 – 38 to refer to this 1000 years Millennial Reign for servants (mortals at that time since some could be watching while others not) which supports the Non Elect Salvation for Israel’s mortals at that time. This seems to be Non Elect Salvation since Christians are raised from the dead as St. Irenaeus points here and literally live as “human immortals” there.

The fact that servants who “may not be watching” (hence sinners) exists during this timeline indicates that this must be the restored old earth since the final new earth cannot be touched by sin/sinners. Please also take note of the possible surprise visits to this old earth which Christ may do during the Millennium up to three times even to check on these mortal servants and reward/punish them. This is clearly not talking about “three Second Comings of Christ” which it would mean if these verses are applied to any timeline before His Glorious Second Coming. Also, those saved during this time are mentioned in Matthew 25:14 – 30 as servants and seem different from those saved in the wedding of the Lamb (Matthew 25:1 – 13) hence Non Elect Salvation versus Elect Salvation seems to be implied by the rigorous method of mapping these verses to each other.

Furthermore, these servants already see/know of Christ’s Second Coming and can see the First Resurrection with Christians (together with Old Testament faithful) as human immortals around them and so the element of faith [54](i.e. “believing without seeing”) does not seem to apply but rather a weaker “believing after seeing” is intrinsically implied here hence Non Elect Salvation possibility for such ones seem like a match!

In contrast, no physical moon nor physical sun (even if it exists, just for argument’s sake) can impact the final heavenly new Jerusalem city which only descends and connects to that final new earth which is untouched by sin and all this must occur after the 1000 years.

“22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. [55] … 1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2Then I, [a]John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. … 6And He said to me, “It[c] is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7He who overcomes [d]shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8But the cowardly, [e]unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” 9Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came [f]to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the [g]bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the [h]great city, the [i]holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, … 14Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the [j]names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. … 22But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine [l]in it, for the [m]glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24And the nations [n]of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. [56]… 1And he showed me a [a]pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever. … 17And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.” [57]

Notice that it is Written clearly that there shall be no night there which means “no moon” possibility since a moon is needed for definition of night, right? Also no light of the sun means neither the sun even if it exists for the final new earth, it doesn’t reach this final new Jerusalem heavenly city (Revelation 21:23, 25, Revelation 22:5).

Also, in this “Final Scene”, the Bride (Elect Salvation, Revelation 21:2, 9, Matthew 25:1 – 13’s Marriage of the Lamb Parable can be mapped to it, “Wedding” context) who are Overcomers who “inherit all things” being His Sons (Revelation 21:7) from heavenly Jerusalem seems to be mentioned as “different” from the lower ranking word Servants which could be Israel’s Non Elect Salvation (Revelation 22:3) while the nations of those saved with some/all requiring healing from the leaves of the Tree of Life at the end of this 1000 years could be the Gentile’s Non Elect Salvation (Revelation 21:24, Revelation 22:2) who could be part of the Thirsty getting the Water of Life freely at this time too (Revelation 21:6) whom even the Bride calls to take the water of life freely so the thirsty must be non-Bride, right? (Revelation 22:17). The “damned” (Revelation 21:8) seem different too and no one can partake of any portion of Tree of Life nor Water of Life connected here (Revelation 22:1 – 2) until final resurrection sinless body as stated in Genesis [58], right?

This also reveals a deeper aspect for Bible prophecy context namely, whether a verse is talking about the Millennium or after the Millennium? As much as possible, I try to find Chiliasm Church Fathers’ quotes for those same verses and when I cannot find any, only then I do my interpolations or guessing as shown here to give a model of possibility for truth where only God decides whether it is correct or even how accurate it is.

For example, I cannot find any Chiliasm Church Fathers quoting the Bible verses below but by looking at the equivalent phrases meaning no more sun nor moon’s light are needed, I think these may refer to final new earth context (“land”) after the Millennium describing both Israel (Servants) and also the final saved nations where all are called righteous (so no more sinners/mortals):

“19“The sun shall no longer be your light by day, Nor for brightness shall the moon give light to you; But the Lord will be to you an everlasting light, And your God your glory. 20Your sun shall no longer go down, Nor shall your moon withdraw itself; For the Lord will be your everlasting light, And the days of your mourning shall be ended. 21Also your people shall all be righteous; They shall inherit the land forever, The branch of My planting, The work of My hands, That I may be glorified. 22A little one shall become a thousand, And a small one a strong nation. I, the Lord, will hasten it in its time.” [59]

5. Will all Christians be in the First Resurrection?

1) These First Resurrection Bible Verses highlight the Christians who have died as martyrs at the hands of the Final Antichrist (indicated by not taking his mark on their hands nor on their foreheads) which also proves that this occurs after the Second Coming of Christ which obliterates the Beast:

Notice that in Bible Verses next, we see all Christians participating in this same First Resurrection and 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ since these include those of that final great tribulation (remember the martyred/beheaded ones mentioned in verses prior?) who are specially highlighted but not limited to since a greater multitude of all nations, tribes and languages are mentioned together with them next during this same bodily resurrection time:

“4And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed: … 9After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, … 13Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” 14And I said to him, [b]“Sir, you know.” So he said to me, ‘These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to [c]living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’ ” [61]

How do we know that Revelation 7 is a prophecy snapshot for First bodily Resurrection and not some spirit world gathering? Generally, the phrase “palm branches in their hands” indicates bodily resurrection because “palm” refers to an earthly plant or tree which is tangible only in a body context. The word hands also can signify bodily resurrection but some can argue that the spirit also has similar features. It’s conclusively bodily resurrection due to the fact that they partake of the “[c]living fountains of waters” where footnote [c] itself here signifies other variant Manuscripts to have the equivalent phrase “fountains of the waters of life” which can be seen from other translations which render this part as “springs of the water of life” (NASB). How does this fact imply bodily resurrection?

Notice that the Tree of Life cannot be applied to any sinful human body as God warned in Genesis but only to a final sinless resurrection body (implied since if a spirit/soul can partake of the Tree of Life then no need for resurrection and Scripture already Say that even sinful human body could partake of it but end up living in sin forever meaning it’s a bodily context clearly) and similarly the “Water of Life” analogy can be drawn likewise as they’re connected in verses below:

“Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever” [62]

“1And he showed me a [a]pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.” [63]

I mean to say that “Water of Life” can be taken in spirit/soul form while “Tree of Life” needs human body form is not written either. However, since both are connected in the “Final Scene” (Revelation 22), this means it’s for sinless human bodily resurrection context only. The words like “river”, “water” and “tree” also signify “bodily” related things since we see some shadow of the perishable things on earth now having similar form. All these evidence supports the bodily resurrection context strongly as opposed to any ‘spiritual partaking’ which is not written in any Bible verse either so it’s a guess only.

We know that this must be Elect Salvation with bodily resurrection in Revelation 7 and not some spiritual resurrection (a concept found nowhere in Scripture because one living in the “Spirit World” as “spirit/soul” is not called resurrection*) since it involves the phrase “clothed with white robes” (e.g. Revelation 7:9) which can be compared with other Bible Verses as follows which contain similar terms for the Elect only:

“After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,” [64]

“4[c]You have a few names [d]even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.” [65]

“Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.” [66]

“9When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.” [67]

Notice how the Bible describes the Elect Salvation in Revelation 7 beginning with “Israel’s 144 000 first”, followed by “all nations” including the 24 Elders with special highlight for those of the ‘last great tribulation’ since they indicate the lasts of the Elect who participate in the Wedding of the Lamb to become His “Bride” (implied) when seen with other Verses.

In fact, “Israel’s 144 000 first” is mentioned separately (Revelation 7:4 – 8) because they indicate the holiest lot or firstfruits of Salvation (kind of like “tithes” of Salvation itself) which is described elsewhere as follows (notice that since Revelation 7 highlights their “race” as “Israelites” and compares it against the salvation of the rest of “all nations” in Revelation 7:9 – 10, it means that the racial distinction here is literal and “no spiritual Israel” label is meant as some allegorists err. In fact, all the saved mentioned in Revelation 7’s Elect summary are “Spiritual Israel” as a whole), compare:

“1Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.” [68]

*Definition of resurrection is “spirit/soul getting a physical body” to live again meaning there is no such thing as a “spiritual resurrection” as some of the allegorists err thinking that’s happening now in their spirit/soul state, compare:

St. Irenaeus of Lyons clearly writes that the “soul/spirit” of the righteous living in the “invisible place” (or ‘Spirit World’, implied) is not resurrection. He clearly reveals that resurrection is when our souls get the “body” later and with it enter the “final heavens” giving the analogy of Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ alone Who is Perfect.

“For as the Lord went away in the midst of the shadow of death, where the souls of the dead were, yet afterwards arose in the body, and after the resurrection was taken up [into heaven], it is manifest that the souls of His disciples also, upon whose account the Lord underwent these things, shall go away into the invisible place allotted to them by God, and there remain until the resurrection, awaiting that event; then receiving their bodies, and rising in their entirety, that is bodily, just as the Lord arose, they shall come thus into the presence of God. For no disciple is above the Master, but every one that is perfect shall be as his Master. Luke 6:40 As our Master, therefore, did not at once depart, taking flight [to heaven], but awaited the time of His resurrection prescribed by the Father, which had been also shown forth through Jonas, and rising again after three days was taken up [to heaven]; so ought we also to await the time of our resurrection prescribed by God and foretold by the prophets, and so, rising, be taken up, as many as the Lord shall account worthy of this [privilege].” [69]

St. Justin of Rome [70] likewise reveals clearly that when the word “resurrection” is used in Holy Scripture, it only denotes “bodily resurrection” meaning a “spirit with soul” getting a “flesh/body” housing to live again with.

“The resurrection is a resurrection of the flesh which died. For the spirit dies not; the soul is in the body, and without a soul it cannot live. The body, when the soul forsakes it, is not. For the body is the house of the soul; and the soul the house of the spirit. These three, in all those who cherish a sincere hope and unquestioning faith in God, will be saved.” [71]

Tertullian clearly writes that Christians do not have any such terminology called “spiritual resurrection” to refer to any other type of ‘bodily resurrection say in the spirit world or elsewhere’ except that it is sometimes allegorically used only to describe a life of a person who repents on earth while being alive (not to dead souls)!

“It moreover follows, that the very maintenance of this spiritual resurrection amounts to a presumption in favour of the other bodily resurrection; for if none were announced for that time, there would be fair ground for asserting only this purely spiritual resurrection. Inasmuch, however, as (a resurrection) is proclaimed for the last time, it is proved to be a bodily one, because there is no spiritual one also then announced. For why make a second announcement of a resurrection of only one character, that is, the spiritual one, since this ought to be undergoing accomplishment either now, without any regard to different times, or else then, at the very conclusion of all the periods? It is therefore more competent for us even to maintain a spiritual resurrection at the commencement of a life of faith, who acknowledge the full completion thereof at the end of the world.” [72]

Tertullian makes it all clear that whenever the Lord used the term “resurrection” it only means “bodily resurrection” and nothing of any “allegory” can ever be associated with it but rather only the definition that a “soul/spirit getting literal flesh (body)” is meant and his usage in his writings mean likewise too and best is, he specifically applies the above to the “First Resurrection of the Just” which is Chiliasm Timeline and he says that only a “few” understand such accuracy below.

“And again, It shall be recompensed to you at the resurrection of the just. Luke 14:14 Now, if the mention of these events (I mean the judgment-day, and the kingdom of God, and the resurrection) has a plain and absolute sense, so that nothing about them can be pressed into an allegory, neither should those statements be forced into parables which describe the arrangement, and the process, and the experience of the kingdom of God, and of the judgment, and of the resurrection. On the contrary, things which are destined for the body should be carefully understood in a bodily sense — not in a spiritual sense, as having nothing figurative in their nature. This is the reason why we have laid it down as a preliminary consideration, that the bodily substance both of the soul and of the flesh is liable to the recompense, which will have to be awarded in return for the co-operation of the two natures, that so the corporeality of the soul may not exclude the bodily nature of the flesh by suggesting a recourse to figurative descriptions, since both of them must needs be regarded as destined to take part in the kingdom, and the judgment, and the resurrection. And now we proceed to the special proof of this proposition, that the bodily character of the flesh is indicated by our Lord whenever He mentions the resurrection, at the same time without disparagement to the corporeal nature of the soul — a point which has been actually admitted but by a few.” [73]

Tertullian reaffirms that soul (spirit) getting a body is the only definition of resurrection even for the “spiritual body” context stated in Scripture for “resurrection”.

“By what designation would they have it called, except that which it became through the soul, except that which it was not previous to the soul, except that which it can never be after the soul, but through its resurrection? For after it has recovered the soul, it once more becomes the natural (or animate) body, in order that it may become a spiritual body. For it only resumes in the resurrection the condition which it once had. There is therefore by no means the same good reason why the soul should be called the natural (or animate) body, which the flesh has for bearing that designation. The flesh, in fact, was a body before it was an animate body. When the flesh was joined by the soul, it then became the natural (or animate) body. … As therefore the flesh was at first an animate (or natural) body on receiving the soul, so at last will it become a spiritual body when invested with the spirit. … ” [74]

Tertullian clearly distinguishes also the prophecy unique to Chiliasm only which is the part where after 1000 years the change from human to angelic occurs [75] as follows:

“For when he adds, This corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 this will assuredly be that house from heaven, with which we so earnestly desire to be clothed upon, while groaning in this our present body — meaning, of course, over this flesh in which we shall be surprised at last; because he says that we are burdened while in this tabernacle, which we do not wish indeed to be stripped of, but rather to be in it clothed over, in such a way that mortality may be swallowed up of life, that is, by putting on over us while we are transformed that vestiture which is from heaven. For who is there that will not desire, while he is in the flesh, to put on immortality, and to continue his life by a happy escape from death, through the transformation which must be experienced instead of it, without encountering too that Hades which will exact the very last farthing? Notwithstanding, he who has already traversed Hades is destined also to obtain the change after the resurrection. For from this circumstance it is that we definitively declare that the flesh will by all means rise again, and, from the change that is to come over it, will assume the condition of angels. Now, if it were merely in the case of those who shall be found in the flesh that the change must be undergone, in order that mortality may be swallowed up of life — in other words, that the flesh (be covered) with the heavenly and eternal raiment — it would either follow that those who shall be found in death would not obtain life, deprived as they would then be of the material and so to say the aliment of life, that is, the flesh; or else, these also must needs undergo the change, that in them too mortality may be swallowed up of life, since it is appointed that they too should obtain life.” [76]

2) Here are Chiliasm Church Fathers’ quotes which agree that all Christians participate in the First Resurrection which is the Wedding/Marriage of the Lamb on this real Sabbath rest fulfilment of Scripture on the Seventh Day which lasts for 1000 years and is also called the Millennial Reign of Christ.

St. Justin of Rome (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD) clearly states that all Christians (i.e. “those who believed in our Christ”) participate in literal bodily resurrection and dwell in the earthly Jerusalem first for 1000 years.

“But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare. For Isaiah spake thus concerning this space of a thousand years: ‘For there shall be the new heaven and the new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, or come into their heart; but they shall find joy and gladness in it, which things I create’. … For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place.” [77]

St. Polycarp (c. 69 AD – c. 155 AD) was Bishop of Smyrna and a direct disciple of Apostle St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation who says that all Christians would be part of the “world to come” and its “resurrection of the dead” referring to the Chiliasm’s First Resurrection here:

“If we please Him in this present world, we shall receive also the future world, according as He has promised to us that He will raise us again from the dead, and that if we live worthily of Him, we shall also reign together with Him, 2 Timothy 2:12 provided only we believe. In like manner, let the young men also be blameless in all things, being especially careful to preserve purity, and keeping themselves in, as with a bridle, from every kind of evil. For it is well that they should be cut off from the lusts that are in the world, since every lust wars against the spirit; 1 Peter 2:11 and neither fornicators, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, shall inherit the kingdom of God, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 nor those who do things inconsistent and unbecoming. Wherefore, it is needful to abstain from all these things, being subject to the presbyters and deacons, as unto God and Christ. The virgins also must walk in a blameless and pure conscience.” [78]

Note that the subjection to presbyters and deacons written here was toward those who believed in Chiliasm and also he did not have any prayers to virgin Mary nor saints which is seen in Chiliasm Church Fathers writings likewise and so should not be claimed by any existing of Christianity unless they followed these same beliefs and rules as testified by Church History.

St. Papias who was bishop of Hierapolis (lived c. 60 AD – c. 163 AD) clearly mentions that all Christians (three types based on the three harvests of the Gospel, namely, thirtyfold, sixtyfold and hundredfold [79] types) are in the wedding of the Lamb which is First Resurrection:

“As the presbyters say, then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; … But that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold; for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second class will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the city; and that on this account the Lord said, ‘In my Father’s house are many mansions’: John 14:2 … And this is the couch in which they shall recline who feast, being invited to the wedding. The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, say that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved” [80].

Notice how St. Papias reveals that this is not his own opinion but rather what was taught by the “presbyters, the disciples of the apostles” themselves and this means all Christians get a final abode in the heavens’ regions [81].

St. Irenaeus of Lyons believes in this same quote by St. Papias earlier [82]. Firstly, St. Irenaeus of Lyons understands that the substance and essence of creation is never annihilated but only the fashion is changed:

“1. For since there are real men, so must there also be a real establishment (plantationem), that they vanish not away among non-existent things, but progress among those which have an actual existence. For neither is the substance nor the essence of the creation annihilated (for faithful and true is He who has established it), but the fashion of the world passes away; 1 Corinthians 7:31 that is, those things among which transgression has occurred, since man has grown old in them. And therefore this [present] fashion has been formed temporary, God foreknowing all things; as I have pointed out in the preceding book, and have also shown, as far as was possible, the cause of the creation of this world of temporal things.” [83]

Next, St. Irenaeus of Lyons believes that the First Resurrection occurs in the renewed old earth and old heavens but when the new earth and new heavens prophecy of Isaiah 66:22 happens which is Revelation 21:1 also (please see pages 29 – 30 earlier), this refers to a “change” in the “fashion” so that the new fashion is never touched by sin at all as his phrase earlier for this was “those things among which transgression has occurred”. Let’s read here:

This not an easy passage by St. Irenaeus above where he says that after the present fashion passes away, the new earth and heavens [85](implied to not having been touched by sin at all by usage of “transgression” quote earlier), has the new man who continues in it without end, i.e. eternally. Notice that only after all this, “then” St. Irenaeus says that those worthy from among the “new man” (implied) get to go to this new heavens which is split at this time into the “city” (which descends and becomes lowest heaven which connects to the final new earth), above it is “Paradise” and above that is “heavens” meaning other layers of heaven. I mean St. Irenaeus seems to say those worthy from among the new man only get to enter the final heavens. This seems to allow for some of the “new man” to be saved but not enter the final heavens, right? (if this interpretation is accurate)

If my interpolations here is true, then this “new man” could include Non Elect Salvation belonging to the class of “nations of those saved on the final new earth with kings reigning over them” [86] where only some seem to enter into “it” where “it” here refers to the final “new Jerusalem Heavenly city” where the “Bride” or Elect Salvation is located in comparison [87] which is consistent with St. Irenaeus’ quote here, hence a possibility.

This means that only those with names written in the Lamb’s Book of Life among the new man on the final new earth get to enter into the lowest heaven or new Jerusalem “city” called “it” in these verses here which combined with St. Irenaeus’ quote prior refers to those worthy of entering heaven, namely, all Christians or those in the wedding context (and Old Testament faithful too) since it refers only to those of thirtyfold, sixtyfold or hundredfold harvests of the Gospel as his quote earlier continues next as follows revealing this detail:

“2. [They say, moreover], that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundred-fold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold: for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second will dwell in paradise, the last will inhabit the city; and that was on this account the Lord declared, In My Father’s house are many mansions. John 14:2 For all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling-place; even as His Word says, that a share is allotted to all by the Father, according as each person is or shall be worthy. And this is the couch on which the guests shall recline, having been invited to the wedding. Matthew 22:10 The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, affirm that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved, and that they advance through steps of this nature; also that they ascend through the Spirit to the Son, and through the Son to the Father, and that in due time the Son will yield up His work to the Father, even as it is said by the apostle, For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1 Corinthians 15:25-26 For in the times of the kingdom, the righteous man who is upon the earth shall then forget to die.” [88]

Notice that St. Irenaeus affirms that this new man concept to heaven’s layers stated here is not his personal opinion but something taught only by direct lineage of the Apostles’ direct disciples themselves whom he calls as “presbyters, the disciples of the apostles” here and particularly highlights the aspect that the “final abode” of the hundredfold reward level is Heavens, followed by sixtyfold reward level to be Paradise and lastly the thirtyfold reward level to be the New Jerusalem City. Also, he says that the normal righteous man saved during the “Millennium” (1000 years reign of Christ) or times of the kingdom in his writing could remain on earth only and forgets to die. So could this be a class of Non Elect Salvation of those not worthy enough to be in heaven but just saved on the final new earth only?

Those of the Wedding of the Lamb are based on the three harvests of the Gospel earlier namely, thirtyfold, sixtyfold and hundredfold types whichincludes “All Christians”, Old Testament faithful and perhaps some from the Millennial Reign mortals? [not sure of this ‘Millennial Reign mortals part’ due to lack of specific quote and also the fact that these believe after seeing since Christ has returned and the Millennium (1000 years) with First Resurrection Christian immortals with sinless human bodies who cannot die exist around them so it may not be considered faith level which is based on believing without seeing, Hebrews 11:1, so let God decide which is it]. Now, let’s look at St. Irenaeus’ quote which continues next to describe that every participant of the wedding of the Lamb (implied from points 1 and 2 earlier) are part of the Chiliasm First Resurrection which begins on earth first and later only expands into final heavens (implied by descriptions in points 1 and 2 earlier with point 3 below):

“3. John, therefore, did distinctly foresee the first resurrection of the just, Luke 14:14 and the inheritance in the kingdom of the earth; and what the prophets have prophesied concerning it harmonize [with his vision]. For the Lord also taught these things, when He promised that He would have the mixed cup new with His disciples in the kingdom. The apostle, too, has confessed that the creation shall be free from the bondage of corruption, [so as to pass] into the liberty of the sons of God. Romans 8:21 And in all these things, and by them all, the same God the Father is manifested, who fashioned man, and gave promise of the inheritance of the earth to the fathers, who brought it (the creature) forth [from bondage] at the resurrection of the just, and fulfils the promises for the kingdom of His Son; subsequently bestowing in a paternal manner those things which neither the eye has seen, nor the ear has heard, nor has [thought concerning them] arisen within the heart of man, 1 Corinthians 2:9; Isaiah 64:4 For there is the one Son, who accomplished His Father’s will; and one human race also in which the mysteries of God are wrought, which the angels desire to look into; 1 Peter 1:12 and they are not able to search out the wisdom of God, by means of which His handiwork, confirmed and incorporated with His Son, is brought to perfection; that His offspring, the First-begotten Word, should descend to the creature (facturam), that is, to what had been moulded (plasma), and that it should be contained by Him; and, on the other hand, the creature should contain the Word, and ascend to Him, passing beyond the angels, and be made after the image and likeness of God.” [89]

I think Christians can freely move in any part of heaven but their final abode is fixed as per the extra-biblical, almost identical, Chiliasm prophecy quotes earlier by St. Irenaeus and St. Papias respectively regarding whether they get a mansion in the Heavens (hundredfold), Paradise (sixtyfold) or New Jerusalem City (thirtyfold). Now, contrary to some opinions of Christians who think that “Paradise” or “Garden of Eden” (Gan Eden) was somewhere on earth, the Bible verses below reveal that it’s beyond the “Gates of the final Heavenly (not earthly) New Jerusalem City” (meaning one must ascend to it agreeing to St. Papias and St. Irenaeus’ quote earlier intrinsically) and it contains the mysterious “Tree of Life” promise which is only for “churches” (Christians) agreeing to earlier classifications too:

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” [90]

“Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.” [91]

Now, this Chiliasm way of looking at these Bible verses based on quotes earlier is supported again by St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ different quote below which I will break to highlight a few important points. The first part discusses about the translation of the just which in Chiliasm Prophecy* refers to the 1 Corinthians 15:52’s “twinkling of an eye change” from human to heavenly substance (or “angelic”) which occurs at the end of the 1000 years since only “then” with heavenly body [since mere “flesh and blood” cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (Heavens) [92] in comparison], one can enter the final heavens and this timeline agrees with St. Irenaeus’ quote earlier (in pages 53 – 54). Compare:

“1. [In order to learn] that bodies did continue in existence for a lengthened period, as long as it was God’s good pleasure that they should flourish, let [these heretics] read the Scriptures, and they will find that our predecessors advanced beyond seven hundred, eight hundred, and nine hundred years of age; and that their bodies kept pace with the protracted length of their days, and participated in life as long as God willed that they should live. But why do I refer to these men? For Enoch, when he pleased God, was translated in the same body in which he did please Him, thus pointing out by anticipation the translation of the just. Elijah, too, was caught up [when he was yet] in the substance of the [natural] form; thus exhibiting in prophecy the assumption of those who are spiritual, and that nothing stood in the way of their body being translated and caught up. For by means of the very same hands through which they were moulded at the beginning, did they receive this translation and assumption. For in Adam the hands of God had become accustomed to set in order, to rule, and to sustain His own workmanship, and to bring it and place it where they pleased.” [93]

*St. Irenaeus of Lyons uses the phrase translated into the kingdom of heaven when these are inherited by the Spirit which matches the Chiliasm Prophecy for 1 Corinthians 15:52’s “change in the twinkling of an eye prophecy” from sinless human (natural body) to “no more flesh and blood” into “celestial (heavenly) spiritual body” [94] and perhaps that’s why Revelation 21:9 describes the “Bride” descending from Heaven having been “translated” there at this time [95].

“But these are inherited by the Spirit when they are translated into the kingdom of heaven. For this cause, too, did Christ die, that the Gospel covenant being manifested and known to the whole world, might in the first place set free His slaves; and then afterwards, as I have already shown, might constitute them heirs of His property, when the Spirit possesses them by inheritance. For he who lives inherits, but the flesh is inherited. In order that we may not lose life by losing that Spirit which possesses us, the apostle, exhorting us to the communion of the Spirit, has said, according to reason, in those words already quoted, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Just as if he were to say, Do not err; for unless the Word of God dwell with, and the Spirit of the Father be in you, and if you shall live frivolously and carelessly as if you were this only, viz., mere flesh and blood, you cannot inherit the kingdom of God.” [96]

Next, St. Irenaeus clearly mentions that Paradise is out of this world (so “heavens” context) by his comparison phrase below for earth as “cast out thence into this world” and notice that he mentions again that such details were taught by “elders” who were direct disciples of the apostles meaning these are not his own opinions:

“Where, then, was the first man placed? In paradise certainly, as the Scripture declares And God planted a garden [paradisum] eastward in Eden, and there He placed the man whom He had formed. Genesis 2:8 And then afterwards when [man] proved disobedient, he was cast out thence into this world. Wherefore also the elders who were disciples of the apostles tell us that those who were translated were transferred to that place (for paradise has been prepared for righteous men, such as have the Spirit; in which place also Paul the apostle, when he was caught up, heard words which are unspeakable as regards us in our present condition 2 Corinthians 12:4), and that there shall they who have been translated remain until the consummation [of all things], as a prelude to immortality.” [97]

Since St. Irenaeus quoted the context of new earth and new heavens based on Isaiah 66:22 earlier (Page 53), let’s look at these Bible verses first before comparing it with another one of his quote soon.

“18“For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory. 19I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and [c]Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. … 24’And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.’ ” [98]

Compare with these Bible verses first:

“And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” [99]

“6Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” [100]

Notice a few possibilities here.

First, since the Isaiah 66:18 – 19, 24 verse earlier sets the context of some type of initial judgment for some of the wicked during the “start” of the Millennium, some of the wicked such as those who took the mark of the beast (Antichrist) or worshipped his image have no hope and get judged in that fire early itself [101]. Another view is that since only the “corpses” (dead bodies with no souls?) are mentioned to be burned in Isaiah 66:24 literally here, it shows that such ones miss the “First Resurrection” (having no bodies to resurrect with) and their souls/spirits are judged elsewhere is Spirit World first (implied) before the General Resurrection and Judgment at the end of this 1000 years since they too need to be raised bodily first before their final judgment sentence is pronounced at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Regardless of these possibilities or another, the main thing is that this occurs during the Millennium as St. Irenaeus’ quote already set this context (page 53 earlier). The Bible verses here in Isaiah 66:19 mentions some of those who “escape” the judgment at the time when Christ Returns are sent as “missionaries” to preach the Gospel (implied) to the nations which includes those who have never heard of the Gospel nor His Name too (Isaiah 66:18 – 19).

But doesn’t that seem to “contradict” Matthew 24:14 and Revelation 14:6 – 7 (quoted earlier too) which imply that the Gospel needs to be preached to all nations first before the end comes? A way to understand it is that the Great Commission verses speak of doing our part but yet some parts of it may be fulfilled via the Chiliasm Prophecy’s 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ since some of those who never heard the Gospel will finally hear it before the “end” which refers to end of this Millennium and before Great White Throne’s Judgment Day as Isaiah 66:18 – 19 points. St. Justin of Rome affirms that Isaiah 66:24 refers to this Millennium context (as those coming from the east and west will join Abraham, Isaac and Jacob at the “First Resurrection” [implied]) and warns that the First Resurrection cannot be requested on behalf of anyone no matter our level of righteousness and it depends on each person’s faith and works (individually) by God’s Grace only:

“And Ezekiel: ‘Even if Noah, and Jacob, and Daniel were to pray for sons or daughters, their request should not be granted.’ ‘But neither shall the father perish for the son, nor the son for the father; but every one for his own sin, and each shall be saved for his own righteousness.’ Ezekiel 18:20 And again Isaiah says: ‘They shall look on the carcasses of them that have transgressed: their worm shall not cease, and their fire shall not be quenched; and they shall be a spectacle to all flesh.’ Isaiah 66:24 And our Lord, according to the will of Him that sent Him, who is the Father and Lord of all, would not have said, ‘They shall come from the east, and from the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness.’ Furthermore, I have proved in what has preceded, that those who were foreknown to be unrighteous, whether men or angels, are not made wicked by God’s fault, but each man by his own fault is what he will appear to be.” [102]

Tertullian quotes Isaiah 66:24 (so same context for Isaiah 66:18 – 24 as a whole too) to refer to the end of this 1000 years or Millennium (implied by his words next that these are fulfilled afterwards which can agree with St. Justin’s quote earlier since St. Justin quotes it to happen simultaneously when the “Kingdom of Heaven” [final new Heavens] is pronounced which in Chiliasm timeline refers to the end of this 1000 years):

“Isaiah 26:19 In another passage it is written: All flesh shall come to worship before me, says the Lord. Isaiah 66:23 When? When the fashion of this world shall begin to pass away. For He said before: As the new heaven and the new earth, which I make, remain before me, says the Lord, so shall your seed remain. Then also shall be fulfilled what is written afterwards: And they shall go forth (namely, from their graves), and shall see the carcasses of those who have transgressed: for their worm shall never die, nor shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be a spectacle to all flesh Isaiah 66:24 even to that which, being raised again from the dead and brought out from the grave, shall adore the Lord for this great grace.” [103]

Those who “escape” during His Second Coming and live as mortals during the Millenium (“in that Day”) can also be seen in these verses as these are the Gentiles who seek Him who shall neither be enemies to Israel anymore:

“10“And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, Who shall stand as a banner to the people; For the Gentiles shall seek Him, And His resting place shall be glorious.” 11It shall come to pass in that day That the Lord shall set His hand again the second time To recover the remnant of His people who are left,” … 12He will set up a banner for the nations, And will [e]assemble the outcasts of Israel, And gather together the dispersed of Judah From the four [f]corners of the earth. 13Also the envy of Ephraim shall depart, And the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not envy Judah, And Judah shall not harass Ephraim. 14But they shall fly down upon the shoulder of the Philistines toward the west; Together they shall plunder the [g]people of the East; They shall lay their hand on Edom and Moab; And the people of Ammon shall obey them.” [104]

Let’s return to Isaiah 66 earlier which we already see that it’s a prophecy for the Millennium.

“20Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the Lord out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,” says the Lord, “as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord. 21And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites,” says the Lord. 22“For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord, “So shall your descendants and your name remain. 23And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.” [105]

St. Justin of Rome quotes the context of Isaiah 66:21 as referring Christians primarily where some of the mortals too seem to be selected together to be Priests and Levites in the Millennial Reign timeline in his quote below.

“Jesus the Son of God has promised again to deliver us, and invest us with prepared garments, if we do His commandments; and has undertaken to provide an eternal kingdom [for us]. For just as that Jesus (Joshua), called by the prophet a priest, evidently had on filthy garments because he is said to have taken a harlot for a wife, and is called a brand plucked out of the fire, because he had received remission of sins when the devil that resisted him was rebuked; even so we, who through the name of Jesus have believed as one man in God the Maker of all, have been stripped, through the name of His first-begotten Son, of the filthy garments, i.e., of our sins; and being vehemently inflamed by the word of His calling, we are the true high priestly race of God, as even God Himself bears witness, saying that in every place among the Gentiles sacrifices are presented to Him well-pleasing and pure. Now God receives sacrifices from no one, except through His priests.” [106]

St. Irenaeus of Lyons clearly mentions that all disciples of the Lord become priests in His Kingdom (hence all Christians) and this indicates the Millennium feasting in the Kingdom of the Righteous too for 1000 years:

“Now, in the preceding book I have shown that all the disciples of the Lord are Levites and priests, … Promises of such a nature, therefore, do indicate in the clearest manner the feasting of that creation in the kingdom of the righteous, which God promises that He will Himself serve.” [107]

Notice that in Isaiah 66’s Millennium context onward earlier, we see that only “some” (not all) become priests and Levites (Isaiah 66:21) opening up the possibility for Non Elect Salvation for those saved as non-priests in the final earth likewise (Revelation 21:24) as the verses below seem to extend to the final new earth and heavens too (Isaiah 66:22). Compare below:

“21And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites,” says the Lord. 22“For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord.” [108]

“23The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine [l]in it, for the [m]glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.” [109]

St. Irenaeus of Lyons clearly writes in another place too that every righteous has a sacerdotalrank (some type of priesthood rank/level also meaning that all are not equal in level; implying gradations in His Kingdom for this too) and also points that the higher levels such as the apostles do not own lands, etc. (which by modern adaptation, unless you have a Church or support system, I think you can will your money and property to Charity likewise via a will and live by these Charity Doctrine rules should you wish to imitate this faith level):

“justifying His disciples by the words of the law, and pointing out that it was lawful for the priests to act freely. For David had been appointed a priest by God, although Saul persecuted him. For all the righteous possess the sacerdotal rank. And all the apostles of the Lord are priests, who do inherit here neither lands nor houses, but serve God and the altar continually. Of whom Moses also says in Deuteronomy, when blessing Levi, Who said to his father and to his mother, I have not known you; neither did he acknowledge his brethren, and he disinherited his own sons: he kept Your commandments, and observed Your covenant. Deuteronomy 33:9 But who are they that have left father and mother, and have said adieu to all their neighbours, on account of the word of God and His covenant, unless the disciples of the Lord? Of whom again Moses says, They shall have no inheritance, for the Lord Himself is their inheritance. Numbers 18:20 And again, The priests the Levites shall have no part in the whole tribe of Levi, nor substance with Israel; their substance is the offerings (fructifications) of the Lord: these shall they eat. Deuteronomy 18:1 Wherefore also Paul says, I do not seek after a gift, but I seek after fruit. Philippians 4:17 To His disciples He said, who had a priesthood of the Lord, to whom it was lawful when hungry to eat the ears of grain, For the workman is worthy of his meat. Matthew 10:10 And the priests in the temple profaned the Sabbath, and were blameless. Wherefore, then, were they blameless? Because when in the temple they were not engaged in secular affairs, but in the service of the Lord, fulfilling the law, but not going beyond it, as that man did, who of his own accord carried dry wood into the camp of God, and was justly stoned to death. Numbers 15:32, etc. For every tree that brings not forth good fruit shall be hewn down, and cast into the fire; Matthew 3:10 and whosoever shall defile the temple of God, him shall God defile. 1 Corinthians 3:17” [110]

Tertullian reveals that every Christian is a priest individually, but when gathered as a Church, some are laity (non-priest) while others are priest (but notice that he is talking about priests who held to Chiliasm doctrines which agree with his writings here and not necessarily any modern Christianity “pastor” that does not follow it):

“Thence, therefore, among us the prescript is more fully and more carefully laid down, that they who are chosen into the sacerdotal order must be men of one marriage; which rule is so rigidly observed, that I remember some removed from their office for digamy. But you will say, Then all others may (marry more than once), whom he excepts. Vain shall we be if we think that what is not lawful for priests is lawful for laics. Are not even we laics priests? It is written: A kingdom also, and priests to His God and Father, has He made us. It is the authority of the Church, and the honour which has acquired sanctity through the joint session of the Order, which has established the difference between the Order and the laity. Accordingly, where there is no joint session of the ecclesiastical Order, you offer, and baptize, and are priest, alone for yourself. But where three are, a church is, albeit they be laics. For each individual lives by his own faith, nor is there exception of persons with God; since it is not hearers of the law who are justified by the Lord, but doers, according to what the apostle withal says. Therefore, if you have the right of a priest in your own person, in cases of necessity, it behooves you to have likewise the discipline of a priest whenever it may be necessary to have the right of a priest. If you are a digamist, do you baptize? If you are a digamist, do you offer? How much more capital (a crime) is it for a digamist laic to act as a priest, when the priest himself, if he turn digamist, is deprived of the power of acting the priest! But to necessity, you say, indulgence is granted. No necessity is excusable which is avoidable. In a word, shun to be found guilty of digamy, and you do not expose yourself to the necessity of administering what a digamist may not lawfully administer. God wills us all to be so conditioned, as to be ready at all times and places to undertake (the duties of) His sacraments. There is one God, one faith, one discipline too. So truly is this the case, that unless the laics as well observe the rules which are to guide the choice of presbyters, how will there be presbyters at all, who are chosen to that office from among the laics? Hence we are bound to contend that the command to abstain from second marriage relates first to the laic; so long as no other can be a presbyter than a laic, provided he have been once for all a husband.” [111]

Here is the crux part where Tertullian reveals that all laics are priests in the future resurrection quoting Revelation 1:6’s context:

“Are not even we laics priests? It is written: A kingdom also, and priests to His God and Father, has He made us. It is the authority of the Church, and the honour which has acquired sanctity through the joint session of the Order, which has established the difference between the Order and the laity.” [112]

Notice that Tertullian allows certain individuals to act like priests if the need arises, for example, where say we are cast out of general churches today because of upholding similar Chiliasm doctrines with Tertullian and the rest even as possibilities then this avenue is available for us to even baptize and perform any sacerdotal duty:

“Accordingly, where there is no joint session of the ecclesiastical Order, you offer, and baptize, and are priest, alone for yourself. But where three are, a church is, albeit they be laics. For each individual lives by his own faith, nor is there exception of persons with God; since it is not hearers of the law who are justified by the Lord, but doers, according to what the apostle withal says. Therefore, if you have the right of a priest in your own person, in cases of necessity, it behooves you to have likewise the discipline of a priest whenever it may be necessary to have the right of a priest. … God wills us all to be so conditioned, as to be ready at all times and places to undertake (the duties of) His sacraments. There is one God, one faith, one discipline too.” [113]

In another writing, Tertullian clearly points again that Christians are priests in the future resurrection context:

“And since there are some who sometimes assert that they have nothing to do with the law (which Christ has not dissolved, but fulfilled), sometimes catch at such parts of the law as they choose; plainly do we too assert that the law has deceased in this sense, that its burdens — according to the sentence of the apostles— which not even the fathers were able to sustain, have wholly ceased: such (parts), however, as relate to righteousness not only permanently remain reserved, but even amplified; in order, to be sure, that our righteousness may be able to redound above the righteousness of the scribes and of the Pharisees. … Us, moreover, Jesus, the Father’s Highest and Great Priest, clothing us from His own store — inasmuch as they who are baptized in Christ have put on Christ — has made priests to God His Father, according to John. For the reason why He recalls that young man who was hastening to his father’s obsequies, is that He may show that we are called priests by Him; (priests) whom the Law used to forbid to be present at the sepulture of parents: Over every dead soul, it says, the priest shall not enter, and over his own father and over his own mother he shall not be contaminated. Does it follow that we too are bound to observe this prohibition? No, of course. For our one Father, God, lives, and our mother, the Church; and neither are we dead who live to God, nor do we bury our dead, inasmuch as they too are living in Christ. At all events, priests we are called by Christ; debtors to monogamy, in accordance with the pristine Law of God, which prophesied at that time of us in its own priests.” [114]

St. Victorinus of Pettau links both Revelation 1:6 and 1 Peter 2:9 to refer to the same context and hence deduces that all Christians are priests in the future kingdom as the current kingdom of this world is being destroyed:

“5. And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the first-begotten of the dead. In taking upon Him manhood, He gave a testimony in the world, wherein also having suffered, He freed us by His blood from sin; and having vanquished hell, He was the first who rose from the dead, and death shall have no more dominion over Him, Romans 6:9 but by His own reign the kingdom of the world is destroyed. 6. And He made us a kingdom and priests unto God and His Father. That is to say, a Church of all believers; as also the Apostle Peter says: A holy nation, a royal priesthood. 1 Peter 2:9” [115]

3) Chiliasm Church Fathers never ordained any women priests nor women pastors for it is not found in the New Testament (neither by Lord Jesus Christ himself). Faithful women will certainly be priests in His Kingdom and after the resurrection since there will be no more gender then.

Notice that in the earlier quote, Tertullian is speaking to males only (e.g. “husband” and those with “one wife”) to be given a chance at earthly priestly office:

“Thence, therefore, among us the prescript is more fully and more carefully laid down, that they who are chosen into the sacerdotal order must be men of one marriage; which rule is so rigidly observed, that I remember some removed from their office for digamy … Hence we are bound to contend that the command to abstain from second marriage relates first to the laic; so long as no other can be a presbyter than a laic, provided he have been once for all a husband.” [116]

Tertullian writes that Christ’s casting pearls to swine context includes the heretics who differ from the truth presented in his writings (including Chiliasm parts) and those who ordain women priests against New Testament Verses [117] [118] and this is why I do not risk myself with any women priest ordinations but let them be due to free will and let God show if He really allowed it on that Day:

“That which is holy they will cast to the dogs, and their pearls, although (to be sure) they are not real ones, they will fling to the swine. Simplicity they will have to consist in the overthrow of discipline, attention to which on our part they call brothelry. Peace also they huddle up anyhow with all comers; for it matters not to them, however different be their treatment of subjects, provided only they can conspire together to storm the citadel of the one only Truth. All are puffed up, all offer you knowledge. Their catechumens are perfect before they are full-taught. The very women of these heretics, how wanton they are! For they are bold enough to teach, to dispute, to enact exorcisms, to undertake cures — it may be even to baptize. Their ordinations, are carelessly administered, capricious, changeable. At one time they put novices in office; at another time, men who are bound to some secular employment; at another, persons who have apostatized from us, to bind them by vainglory, since they cannot by the truth. Nowhere is promotion easier than in the camp of rebels, where the mere fact of being there is a foremost service.” [119]

In another writing, Tertullian clearly writes that these Bible rules concerning women are applicable not just to married women but to virgins too, hence all women:

“Let us now see whether, as we have shown the arguments drawn from nature and the matter itself to be applicable to the virgin as well (as to other females), so likewise the precepts of ecclesiastical discipline concerning women have an eye to the virgin.

It is not permitted to a woman to speak in the church; but neither (is it permitted her) to teach, nor to baptize, nor to offer, nor to claim to herself a lot in any manly function, not to say (in any) sacerdotal office. Let us inquire whether any of these be lawful to a virgin. If it is not lawful to a virgin, but she is subjected on the self-same terms (as the woman), and the necessity for humility is assigned her together with the woman, whence will this one thing be lawful to her which is not lawful to any and every female? If any is a virgin, and has proposed to sanctify her flesh, what prerogative does she (thereby) earn adverse to her own condition? Is the reason why it is granted her to dispense with the veil, that she may be notable and marked as she enters the church? That she may display the honour of sanctity in the liberty of her head? More worthy distinction could have been conferred on her by according her some prerogative of manly rank or office!” [120]

St. Irenaeus of Lyons also writes regarding some gnostic heretics who had women priests but he never mentions any women pastors of his own and nor does any part of his writing allow any women priests either (implied) in his ancient Chiliasm Church which was also from the lineage of the Apostles themselves in that time:

“2. Pretending to consecrate cups mixed with wine, and protracting to great length the word of invocation, he contrives to give them a purple and reddish color, so that Charis, who is one of those that are superior to all things, should be thought to drop her own blood into that cup through means of his invocation, and that thus those who are present should be led to rejoice to taste of that cup, in order that, by so doing, the Charis, who is set forth by this magician, may also flow into them. Again, handing mixed cups to the women, he bids them consecrate these in his presence. When this has been done, he himself produces another cup of much larger size than that which the deluded woman has consecrated, and pouring from the smaller one consecrated by the woman into that which has been brought forward by himself, he at the same time pronounces these words: May that Charis who is before all things, and who transcends all knowledge and speech, fill your inner man, and multiply in you her own knowledge, by sowing the grain of mustard seed in you as in good soil. Repeating certain other like words, and thus goading on the wretched woman [to madness], he then appears a worker of wonders when the large cup is seen to have been filled out of the small one, so as even to overflow by what has been obtained from it. By accomplishing several other similar things, he has completely deceived many, and drawn them away after him.” [121]

Interestingly, in this particular incident, St. Irenaeus of Lyons makes a perplexing claim namely that this heretic who was ordaining women priests could also prophesy some things which came true but with the aid of demons. St. Irenaeus then goes on to explain that this heretic runs some type of “prophecy classes” encouraging these women to ‘utter something’ to get them excited to think that they’re now some type of prophetess thereafter:

“3. It appears probable enough that this man possesses a demon as his familiar spirit, by means of whom he seems able to prophesy, and also enables as many as he counts worthy to be partakers of his Charis themselves to prophesy. He devotes himself especially to women, and those such as are well-bred, and elegantly attired, and of great wealth, whom he frequently seeks to draw after him, by addressing them in such seductive words as these: I am eager to make you a partaker of my Charis, since the Father of all does continually behold your angel before His face. Now the place of your angel is among us: it behooves us to become one. Receive first from me and by me [the gift of] Charis. Adorn yourself as a bride who is expecting her bridegroom, that you may be what I am, and I what you are. Establish the germ of light in your nuptial chamber. Receive from me a spouse, and become receptive of him, while you are received by him. Behold Charis has descended upon you; open your mouth and prophesy. On the woman replying, I have never at any time prophesied, nor do I know how to prophesy; then engaging, for the second time, in certain invocations, so as to astound his deluded victim, he says to her, Open your mouth, speak whatsoever occurs to you, and you shall prophesy. She then, vainly puffed up and elated by these words, and greatly excited in soul by the expectation that it is herself who is to prophesy, her heart beating violently [from emotion], reaches the requisite pitch of audacity, and idly as well as impudently utters some nonsense as it happens to occur to her, such as might be expected from one heated by an empty spirit.” [122]

There are other Church Fathers’ quotes against women priesthood [123] which is not my intention to list them down here since I’m only focusing on Chiliasm Church Fathers for accuracy of doctrine and the absence of other Church Fathers’ quotes regarding this topic (or in fact, regarding any topic generally) is due to the fact that either they did not encounter such opposite practices or their writings regarding it could have been lost.

4) Here are example Bible verses proving that all Christians are kings and priests implying that a non-king and non-priest in the final new earth context could be Non Elect Salvation possibility (if all these interpretations are true).

“But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;” [124]

“5and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who [b]loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6and has made us [c]kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.” [125]

“9And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10And have made [d]us kings[e] and priests to our God; And [f]we shall reign on the earth.” [126]

5) Note that all Christians being priests also proves that all Christians participate in the First Resurrection and this 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ:

“5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.” [127]

6) Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ literally taught the 1000 years (Millennial) Reign for the “age” to come (literally Aeon in Koine Greek or Olam in Hebrew, its equivalent) in these verses:

Christ specifically highlights the importance of Charity Doctrine with it for the “resurrection of the just”.

“12Then He also said to him who invited Him, “When you give a dinner or a supper, do not ask your friends, your brothers, your relatives, nor rich neighbors, lest they also invite you back, and you be repaid. 13But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the [d]maimed, the lame, the blind. 14And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you; for you shall be repaid at the resurrection of the just.” [128]

Christ beautifully describes this entire Chiliasm First Resurrection and Millennial (1000 years) Reign prophecy for those worthy to attain to that “age”(Aeon/Olam) in a concise summary as follows:

“34Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.” [129]

We know that the context for the phrase “resurrection of the just” here (e.g. Luke 14:14) is First Resurrection context due to Chiliasm Church Father quotes like this:

“For in the times of the kingdom, the righteous man who is upon the earth shall then forget to die. … 3. John, therefore, did distinctly foresee the first resurrection of the just, Luke 14:14 and the inheritance in the kingdom of the earth; and what the prophets have prophesied concerning it harmonize [with his vision]. For the Lord also taught these things, when He promised that He would have the mixed cup new with His disciples in the kingdom.” [130]

and notice the Lord taught equivalent phrase in both:

And in the next quote, Tertullian clearly gives an allegorical interpretation of Luke 14:14 while also warning clearly that this recompense cannot be seen only in a “spiritual sense” but also a “literal earthly one” in the context of resurrection [both true] and gives a note regarding Charity Doctrine action that it has little value to no value when done toward one’s own family members only (please notice these ‘keywords’ carefully to not err):

“What kind of persons does He bid should be invited to a dinner or a supper? Luke 14:12-14 Precisely such as he had pointed out by Isaiah: Deal your bread to the hungry man; and the beggars — even such as have no home — bring in to your house, Isaiah 58:7 because, no doubt, they are unable to recompense your act of humanity. Now, since Christ forbids the recompense to be expected now, but promises it at the resurrection, this is the very plan of the Creator, who dislikes those who love gifts and follow after reward. Consider also to which deity is better suited the parable of him who issued invitations: A certain man made a great supper, and bade many. Luke 14:16 The preparation for the supper is no doubt a figure of the abundant provision of eternal life. I first remark, that strangers, and persons unconnected by ties of relationship, are not usually invited to a supper; but that members of the household and family are more frequently the favoured guests. … If, however, he condemns them beforehand as about to reject his call, then beforehand he also predicts the election of the Gentiles in their stead. Certainly he means to come the second time for the very purpose of preaching to the heathen. But even if he does mean to come again, I imagine it will not be with the intention of any longer inviting guests, but of giving to them their places. Meanwhile, you who interpret the call to this supper as an invitation to a heavenly banquet of spiritual satiety and pleasure, must remember that the earthly promises also of wine and oil and grain, and even of the city, are equally employed by the Creator as figures of spiritual things.” [132]

7) Chiliasm Prophecy Extension – My Interpolation Example.

This chapter is describing Christ’s Second Coming:

“4And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.” [133] [134]

During Christ’s Second coming, the First Resurrection occurs since all the saints (not some) return with Him.

“5Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with c]You.” [135]

During the commencement of the Millennium, the renewed old earth and heavens exhibit some remarkable new physical changes as well.

“6It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The [d]lights will diminish. 7It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord— Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light.” [136]

The living waters (or “water of life”) is partaken by Christians only (compare with Revelation 7 in pages 39 – 43 earlier) since only they are in final sinless human resurrection body in Chiliasm timeline and at the same time some type of earthly allegorical water of life (not the real one) also forms for the mortals of this Millennial Reign of Christ (compare with Ezekiel verses in page 2 earlier). Also, the whole earth will literally know “who the real God is” (namely Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ) since His Second Coming just occurred followed by all these new physical restoration and renewal of the earth.

“8And in that day it shall be That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, Half of them toward [e]the eastern sea And half of them toward [f]the western sea; In both summer and winter it shall occur. 9And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be— “The Lord is one,”

And His name one.” [137]

The interesting part is that mortals/sinners also exist in this timeline proving conclusively that this is not “Great White Throne Judgment Day” but before that since sinful human beings continue to exist alongside the First Resurrection Christian immortals (i.e. all saints in point ii. earlier) during this time. Even then, God punishes disobedient nations fairly and allows free will to exist for some of them who are allowed to live even when they don’t submit to God as prophet Zechariah describes next regarding those who are left of all the nations (some of whom even came up against Jerusalem but God has forgiven and let them live) indicating clear existence of mortal/sinners as survivors which also means that the 2 Peter 3:10 [138]verse’s earth and its works burned up prophecy refers to selected judgment and physical renewal of earth whose “end result” is seen as follows:

“16And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19This shall be the [i]punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.” [139]

The ending part of this 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ is not written in Zechariah 14’s prophecy above but rather in the New Testament’s Book of Revelation as follows (which means sometimes we have to combine different parts of the Bible to get a better view of the prophecies since certain verses may be describing a particular aspect while others could be describing other details which are not mentioned in the earlier verses):

“2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. … 7Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” [140]

Notice that Satan was not deceiving these nations (Revelation 20:3) during the Millennium (1000 years). This means the earlier disobedience of some of these nations described by prophet Zechariah earlier is purely due to human free will only. Also, by the time Satan did “one last deception” for these sinners/mortals of the Millennial Reign (Revelation 20:7 – 9) and got cast into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:10), both the beast and false prophet have been burning for 1000 years already since Christ’s Second Coming has already occurred [141].

Notice that those of the First Resurrection, namely all saints (Revelation 20:9) are in that earthly rebuilt Jerusalem city of the Millennium.

A possible logic as to how Revelation 20’s last rebellion and deception above occurs is with Satan seen as ‘liberator’ as I infer here that Satan will be visible for if not, how will he deceive those nations at that time? Also he will probably say something meaning ‘he (Satan) is the real Christ since he resurrected or escaped the bottomless pit so is more powerful and was humbling himself to test and see who will remain loyal to him for 1000 years’ and such a lie will easily be believed by those “sinners” among the “nations” who get jealous with mortal Israel that is the chosen ruling nation at that time during this 1000 years with Christian human immortals (who have perfect sinless body possibly like what Adam, the first man had ‘before the fall’ to fulfil God’s Will for that “state of existence” during this Millennium) who participate in the First Resurrection (where notice that all this happens after the Second Coming of Christ described in Revelation 19).

In the end, despite the “great numbers” these nations amass as an ‘army’ at that time to try surround that earthly Jerusalem to destroy it, but this deception fails miserably and God just sends “fire” from heaven and destroys them as a whole and next, the Great White Throne Judgment Day begins as described literally in chronological timeline order for these parts in the Book of Revelation like this (notice carefully that Judgment Day can only occur in a timeline where there is no more sinners nor mortals in existence on the earth):

“11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” [142]

The only major problem with Tertullian for which he was not sainted is that he followed after Montanism [143]. This he called as “New Prophecy” since it was “new” indeed for no other known Church Fathers ever considered Montanism as a possibility of truth meaning it is definitely wrong in my opinion. Let’s see Tertullian quote in three parts as follows for clarity in his own words:

This is the “full quote”:

“But we do confess that a kingdom is promised to us upon the earth, although before heaven, only in another state of existence; inasmuch as it will be after the resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of Jerusalem, let down from heaven, Revelation 21:2 which the apostle also calls our mother from above; Galatians 4:26 and, while declaring that our πολίτευμα, or citizenship, is in heaven, he predicates of it that it is really a city in heaven. This both Ezekiel had knowledge of Ezekiel 48:30-35 and the Apostle John beheld. Revelation 21:10-23 And the word of the new prophecy which is a part of our belief, attests how it foretold that there would be for a sign a picture of this very city exhibited to view previous to its manifestation. This prophecy, indeed, has been very lately fulfilled in an expedition to the East. For it is evident from the testimony of even heathen witnesses, that in Judæa there was suspended in the sky a city early every morning for forty days. As the day advanced, the entire figure of its walls would wane gradually, and sometimes it would vanish instantly. We say that this city has been provided by God for receiving the saints on their resurrection, and refreshing them with the abundance of all really spiritual blessings, as a recompense for those which in the world we have either despised or lost; since it is both just and God-worthy that His servants should have their joy in the place where they have also suffered affliction for His name’s sake. Of the heavenly kingdom this is the process.” [144]

Notice that Tertullian is clearly stating that the earthly Millennial Reign of Christ is literal and different from the heavenly kingdom which is at the end of the 1000 years which I have discussed in Page 21 earlier.

Now, this is the same quote with the Montanism’s “New Prophecy part” removed:

Notice that Tertullian mentions these parts as true regardless of the New Prophecy quote and the fact that this agrees with say, other Chiliasm Church Father’s quotes (please see Chapter 15 later), together, all these proves that this part is independent of Montanism, hence possibly true.

Lastly, here is that Montanism New Prophecy part:

“And the word of the new prophecy which is a part of our belief, attests how it foretold that there would be for a sign a picture of this very city exhibited to view previous to its manifestation. This prophecy, indeed, has been very lately fulfilled in an expedition to the East. For it is evident from the testimony of even heathen witnesses, that in Judæa there was suspended in the sky a city early every morning for forty days. As the day advanced, the entire figure of its walls would wane gradually, and sometimes it would vanish instantly.” [146]

What has happened here is that Tertullian is clearly quoting that either Montanus or someone in Montanism who prophesied that this “heavenly new Jerusalem city” would be visible in the “sky” for “forty days”. Notice that Tertullian himself has never seen that occurrence personally but quotes others (including heathens) who claimed to have “seen it”. That’s all.

This is clear evidence from Tertullian himself that he got carried away by this claim of seeing the ‘heavenly new Jerusalem city’ and believed this claim since it matches the known Christian prophecy that exists. In analogy, it’s something like when a Roman Catholic claims to have seen a vision of eternal hell and also of Virgin Mary which agrees to the Roman Catholic view today and so such a claim may be believed as true by them.

Similarly, a Pentecostal may believe in a claim by their “prophet” if he/she claims to have gone to the spirit world and saw a vision of eternal hell together with say, pre-tribulation rapture events since they generally agree with both these views too. I mean, even if the “vision” turns out to be “false”, both the Roman Catholics and Pentecostals quoted in analogy here will continue to believe their core doctrines regardless and similarly, Tertullian’s New Prophecy quote earlier does not diminish the other Chiliasm prophecy quotes which exist independent of it as well. Notice also that this New Prophecy quote does not relate to anything more than the “existence” of the “New Jerusalem City” meaning the New Prophecy has “nothing” to do with say, the Chiliasm prophecy of change from human to angelic at the end of the Millennium etc. since Tertullian does not quote nor link them at all.

6. Shadow of Death Possibly describing Non Elect Salvation

Here, I present my interpolations regarding this topic based on Bible verses and Church Fathers’ quotes which show that the Hebrew word “וְ֭צַלְמָוֶת” (transliterated: wə·ṣal·mā·weṯ) [147] which is translated as Shadow of Death can refer to Spirit World Judgment Regions of Hell which then in return, can imply the possibility that the principal Bible verse in Psalm 107:10 – 15 describes some type of Non Elect Salvation for “some” who get saved after Judgment in Hell first.

1) God only Spoke directly using this mysterious Hebrew word translated as “Shadow of Death” as follows to Job which seems strong for Spirit World context since the word death is associated with it twice here, once referring to the “gate” (hence implying those who can go in or out of death or punishment regions) and “shadow” which can mean the intermediate state:

“Have the gates of death been revealed to you? Or have you seen the doors of the shadow of death?” [148]

2) Let’s look at the Bible verses next for a “Possible” Non Elect Salvation quote for some with this phrase “Shadow of Death” meaning they’re saved from the Spirit World since Shadow of Death is mentioned and because it is toward those who rebelled against God and rejected God’s plans for their lives here:

“10There were those who lived in darkness and in [i]the shadow of death, Prisoners in misery and [j]chains, 11Because they had rebelled against the words of God And rejected the plan of the Most High. 12Therefore He humbled their heart with labor; They stumbled and there was no one to help. 13Then they cried out to the LORD in their trouble; He saved them from their distresses. 14He brought them out of darkness and [k]the shadow of death And broke their bands apart. 15They shall give thanks to the LORD for His mercy, And for His [l]wonders to the sons of mankind! 16For He has shattered gates of bronze And cut off bars of iron.” [149]

We know that this part of Old Testament Scripture is preserved since even the rival Septuagint manuscript to this translation based on Masoretic above reads the “same” below, compare:

“10(106:10) even them that sit in darkness and the shadow of death, fettered in poverty and iron; 11(106:11) because they rebelled against the words of God, and provoked the counsel of the Most High. 12(106:12) So their heart was brought low with troubles; they were weak, and there was no helper. 13(106:13) Then they cried to the Lord in their affliction, and he saved them out of their distresses. 14(106:14) And he brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death, and broke their bonds asunder. 15(106:15) Let them acknowledge to the Lord his mercies, and his wonders to the children of men. 16(106:16) For he broke to pieces the brazen gates, and crushed the iron bars.” [150]

3) Here is every other reference for that exact type of “Shadow of Death” from the original Hebrew which can be easily seen with modern online interlinear tools even [151] (same thing if you read it from a published book unless someone can show typos):

Job 3’s verses here seem to show that the Shadow of Death phrase can be used to describe the gloomy side of the Spirit World since he contrasts it with the day he was born (meaning the opposite day is the day of death):

“3May the day perish on which I was born, And the night in which it was said, ‘A male child is conceived.’ … 5May darkness and the shadow of death claim it; May a cloud settle on it; May the blackness of the day terrify it.” [152]

Job 10 describes the “reality” of dying and going into the Spirit World using the phrase Shadow of Death:

“19I would have been as though I had not been. I would have been carried from the womb to the grave. 20Are not my days few? Cease! Leave me alone, that I may take a little comfort, 21Before I go to the place from which I shall not return, To the land of darkness and the shadow of death, 22A land as dark as darkness itself, As the shadow of death, without any order, where even the light is like darkness.” [153]

Job 28:3 uses the phrase Shadow of Death to describe figuratively the search for valuable minerals in the depths of the earth which kind of parallels the Spirit World since the Spirit World is generally believed to exist in parallel to ours in the lower earth regions [154].

“3Man puts an end to darkness, And searches every recess For ore in the darkness and the shadow of death.” [155]

Psalm 44:19 uses the Hebrew word for Dragons to describe the punishment region of Shadow of Death which could mean Spirit World context literally.

“Though thou hast sore broken us in the place of dragons, and covered us with the shadow of death.” [156]

Notice that I used the ‘King James Version’ (KJV) translation for the above because other translations seem to use the word “jackals” instead of “dragons”. The spelling for the word seem to match “dragons” as per the occurrence of its root word [157] but some scholars think it can be jackals too. The Septuagint version of this verse seem to mention neither dragon nor jackals but just Shadow of Death only as follows:

“19(43:19) For thou hast laid us low in a place of affliction, and the shadow of death has covered us.” [158]

Our principal verse for Psalm 107:10 – 12 reveals the judgment aspect of the Shadow of Death regions which seems to match the Spirit World context since words like “darkness”, “death”, “affliction” and “irons” seem to indicate it and it is not for some faithful ones but rather unfaithful ones as words like “rebelled” and “despised” the “Word of God” and “Counsel of God” is written here:

“10Those who sat in darkness and in the shadow of death, Bound[b] in affliction and irons— 11Because they rebelled against the words of God, And [c]despised the counsel of the Most High, 12Therefore He brought down their heart with labor; They fell down, and there was none to help.” [159]

Continuing with our principal verse above, the next occurrence is for Psalm 107:13 – 15 which describes now the “Salvation” part from this Shadow of Death punishments earlier by God’s divine mercy, hence I infer the Non Elect Salvation possibility chiefly based on this:

“13Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble, And He saved them out of their distresses. 14He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death, And broke their chains in pieces. 15Oh, that men would give thanks to the Lord for His goodness, And for His wonderful works to the children of men!” [160]

This is the last occurrence of the Shadow of Death phrase which is equivalent in all aspects from spelling to type. Jeremiah 2:6 speaks of God’s deliverance of Israel from Egypt which some scholars use to argue thus ‘all Shadow of Death phrases’ likewise must thus mean this earthly context only but this contradicts some of the Shadow of Death usage we have shown in the Bible here itself that seems to point to the Spirit World exclusively too. However, in this usage too, the context seems to be pointing to death where it’s describing some intermediate lands where no one dwelt hence the context of Spirit World allegorical or literal meaning remains possible and even if not, the other earlier occurrences can mean the Spirit World too making such a claim still possible which God alone can decide what He meant in Psalm 107.

“Neither did they say, ‘Where is the LORD, Who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, Who led us through the wilderness, Through a land of deserts and pits, Through a land of drought and the shadow of death, Through a land that no one crossed And where no one dwelt?’ ” [161]

4) Here are Chiliasm Church Father quotes in support of the claim that Shadow of Death phrase can refer to judgment regions or just Spirit World generally which in turn, as I showed, if my interpolations are right, then Psalm 107:10 – 15 can mean Non Elect Salvation for some (not all) if God Wills it. So, all I need to do next is to show that the phrase Shadow of Death indicates the Spirit World Regions Context via some writings for this possibility (not doctrine) to be a possibility of truth.

St. Justin of Rome and Tertullian do not seem to have a direct quote using Shadow of Death in this context (whose writings containing that may be lost). However, it’s stated from Eusebius and others that both of them quoted a writing called “Acts of Pilate or Acta Pilati”, though not Scripture possibly, but yet it is considered ‘Orthodox and free of any Gnostic taint’ according to the official Roman Catholic scholars even today as follows:

“This work does not assume to have written by Pilate, but to have been derived from the official acts preserved in the praetorium at Jerusalem. The alleged Hebrew original is attributed to Nicodemus. The title “Gospel of Nicodemus” is of medieval origin. … We possess a text in Greek, the original language; a Coptic, an Armenian and a Latin, besides modern translations. The Latin versions were naturally its most current form and were printed several times in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. … The well-informed Eusebius (325), although he mentions the Acta Pilati referred to by Justin and Tertullian and heathen pseudo-Acts of this kind, shows no acquaintance with this work. We are forced to admit that is of later origin, and scholars agree in assigning it to the middle of the fourth century. There is no internal relation between the “Acta” and the feigned letter found in the Acts of Peter and Paul. Epiphanius refers to the Acta Pilati similar to our own, as early as 376, but there are indications that the current Greek text, the earliest extant form, is a revision of the original one. The “Acta” are of orthodox composition and free from Gnostic taint.” [162]

Since both Chiliasm Church Fathers St. Justin of Rome and Tertullian are attested above to quote it, so will I. In this “Acta Pilati” [Acts of Pilate] or also known as “Gospel of Nicodemus”, the passage below clearly indicates that the phrase Shadow of Death indicates the Spirit World Judgment Region Context using Psalm 107:10 – 16 here together with Matthew 4:15 – 16 [163]too:

“The land of Zabulon and the land of Nephthalim across Jordan, Galilee of the nations, the people who sat in darkness, have seen a great light; and light was shining among those who are in the region of the shadow of death. And now it has come and shone upon us sitting in death.” … And when all the saints heard this from Esaias, they said to Hades: Open your gates. Since you are now conquered, you will be weak and powerless. And there was a great voice, as of thunders, saying: Lift up your gates, you princes; and be lifted up, you infernal gates; and the King of glory shall come in. Hades, seeing that they had twice shouted out this, says, as if not knowing: Who is the king of glory? David says, in answer to Hades: I recognise those words of the shout, since I prophesied the same by His Spirit. And now, what I have said above I say to you, The Lord strong and mighty, the Lord mighty in battle; He is the King of glory. And the Lord Himself has looked down from heaven upon earth, to hear the groans of the prisoners, and to release the sons of the slain. And now, most filthy and most foul Hades, open your gates, that the King of glory may come in. While David was thus speaking, there came to Hades, in the form of a man, the Lord of majesty, and lighted up the eternal darkness, and burst asunder the indissoluble chains; and the aid of unconquered power visited us, sitting in the profound darkness of transgressions, and in the shadow of death of sins.” [164]

Notice carefully how this writing speaks of Elect Salvation of the “saints” during Christ’s descend into “Hades” but also speaks of others in “groans, prisoners, chains, sins, transgressions, in the filthy or foul sections of Hades or darkness or shadow of death regions” to be freed too who could be the Non Elect Salvation possibility cases. I don’t think Christ marries them as His Bride, right? So the Non Elect Salvation possibility seems likely for these ones as it is compared against the holier saints in Hades’ comfort regions as some names of prophets and Old Testament faithful are mentioned here. Christ’s description of Hades in compartments of comfort versus torment in Luke 16:19 – 31 matches this in some way.

In the above, I quoted the Part II of the First Latin Form. Using slightly different words, all the known variants of Part II have this same “possible” Non Elect Salvation content. Indeed, I will quote below the only remaining Part II variants namely the Part II (Greek Form) and Part II (Second Latin Form) next.

In the Part II (Greek Form), Non Elect Salvation here refers to “all the dead who had been bound came out of the prisons” even from the “dark” regions of “Hades” and the saints came up separately with them:

“Hades answered: … For, lo, all those that I have swallowed from eternity I perceive to be in commotion, and I am pained in my belly. And the snatching away of Lazarus beforehand seems to me to be no good sign: for not like a dead body, but like an eagle, he flew out of me; for so suddenly did the earth throw him out. Wherefore also I adjure even you, for your benefit and for mine, not to bring him here; for I think that he is coming here to raise all the dead. And this I tell you: by the darkness in which we live, if you bring him here, not one of the dead will be left behind in it to me. … There came, then, again a voice saying: Lift up the gates. Hades, hearing the voice the second time, answered as if forsooth he did not know, and says: Who is this King of glory? The angels of the Lord say: The Lord strong and mighty, the Lord mighty in battle. And immediately with these words the brazen gates were shattered, and the iron bars broken, and all the dead who had been bound came out of the prisons, and we with them. And the King of glory came in in the form of a man, and all the dark places of Hades were lighted up.” [165]

Now, let’s see the Part II (Second Latin Form), which uses the same Shadow of Death phrase to refer to the punishment regions of Hades where “all the saints” are saved together with some others too possibly:

“I Karinus. O Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the living God, permit me to speak of Your wonders which You have done in the lower world. When, therefore, we were kept in darkness and the shadow of death in the lower world, suddenly there shone upon us a great light, and Hades and the gates of death trembled. And then was heard the voice of the Son of the Father most high, as if the voice of a great thunder; and loudly proclaiming, He thus charged them: Lift up your gates, you princes; lift up the everlasting gates; the King of glory, Christ the Lord, will come up to enter in.

Then Satan, the leader of death, came up, fleeing in terror, saying to his officers and the powers below: My officers, and all the powers below, run together, shut your gates, put up the iron bars, and fight bravely, and resist, lest they lay hold of us, and keep us captive in chains. Then all his impious officers were perplexed, and began to shut the gates of death with all diligence, and little by little to fasten the locks and the iron bars, and to hold all their weapons grasped in their hands, and to utter howlings in a direful and most hideous voice. … Then all the saints, hearing this again, exulted in joy. And one of those standing round, Isaias by name, cried out aloud, and thundered: Father Adam, and all standing round, hear my declaration. When I was on earth, and by the teaching of the Holy Spirit, in prophecy I sang of this light: The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light; to them dwelling in the region of the shadow of death light has arisen. … Then all the saints, adoring Him, cried out, saying: Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!” … Praise, honour, power, glory! Because You have come from on high to visit us. Singing Alleluia continually, and rejoicing together concerning His glory, they ran together under the hands of the Lord. Then the Saviour, inquiring thoroughly about all, seized Hades, immediately threw some down into Tartarus, and led some with Him to the upper world.” [166]

Notice that in the last lines above, this variant seems to say that not all of those in Hades were saved but only some where these included some of those “kept captive in chains” as the account called them “us” (as part of those saved in Hades) meaning could be Non Elect Salvation. Now, regardless if this referred to whether a second chance applied to those of the past or not, Psalm 107:10 – 16 earlier together with these preserved writings seem to indicate that some type of non-righteous are saved after Judgment in Hades first and if true, I don’t think Christ will Marry and make them part of His Bride which must consist only of those with faith and righteousness, right? Hence, I infer that these could be some lower class of Non Elect Salvation who are non-priests and non-kings who could be inhabiting the final new earth as part of the nations of those who are saved but may never be able to enter heaven (Revelation 21:24 – 27).

Let’s look at St. Irenaeus of Lyons quote containing this same phrase Shadow of Death which he seems to point together with the lower parts of the earth phrase (Ephesians 4:9 – 10) to refer to this Spirit World or Intermediate place for souls without body context but does not comment on the punishment regions of Hades and rather focuses on the comfort regions of Hades (implied) since he talks about the disciples context here:

“[if all these things occurred, I say], how must these men not be put to confusion, who allege that the lower parts refer to this world of ours, but that their inner man, leaving the body here, ascends into the super-celestial place? For as the Lord went away in the midst of the shadow of death, where the souls of the dead were, yet afterwards arose in the body, and after the resurrection was taken up [into heaven], it is manifest that the souls of His disciples also, upon whose account the Lord underwent these things, shall go away into the invisible place allotted to them by God, and there remain until the resurrection, awaiting that event; then receiving their bodies, and rising in their entirety, that is bodily, just as the Lord arose, they shall come thus into the presence of God.” [167]

5) Here are non-Chiliasm Church Father quotes in support of the claim that Shadow of Death phrase can refer to judgment regions or just Spirit World generally which in turn, as I showed, if my interpolations are right, then Psalm 107:10 – 16 can mean Non Elect Salvation for some (not all) if God Wills it. I repeat, so all I need to do next is to show that the phrase Shadow of Death indicates the Spirit World Regions Context via some writings for this possibility (not doctrine) to be a possibility of truth.

This next quote is containing the phrase Shadow of Death and using it clearly in the context of the Spirit World attributed to an Anonymous writing which is often called as an ancient Homily for Holy Saturday [168]. It is to be noted that some scholars attribute this work to St. Melito of Sardis (c.100 AD – c. 180 AD) [169].

“Something strange is happening – there is a great silence on earth today, a great silence and stillness. The whole earth keeps silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. God has died in the flesh and hell trembles with fear. He has gone to search for our first parent, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow the captives Adam and Eve, he who is both God and the son of Eve.” [170]

St. Gregory Thaumaturgus (c. 213 AD – c. 270 AD) [171] also writes using the phrase Shadow of Death to refer to those gone down into the Spirit World below explaining that Christ (the Illumining Pearl) will raise them up:

“11. Let us twine, as with a wreath, the souls (or selves) [of them that love the festival and love to hearken] 3 with golden blossoms, fain to be crowned with wreaths from the unfading gardens; and offering in our hands the fair-fruited flowers of Christ, let us gather [them]. For the God-like temple of the Holy Virgin is meet to be glorified with such a crown; because the illumining Pearl cometh forth, to the end that it may raise up again into the ever-streaming light them that were gone down into darkness and the shadow of death.” [172]

St. Melito of Sardis (c.100 AD – c. 180 AD) also uses the phrase Shadow of Death to refer to the Spirit World clearly in his writing on the Passover (or Pascha) below:

“56) Humanity was doled out by death, for a strange disaster and captivity surrounded him;

he was dragged off a captive under the shadow of death, and the father’s image was left desolate.

For this reason in the body of the Lord

is the paschal mystery completed.” [173]

Here’s a modern usage of Shadow of Death phrase to refer to the Spirit World in the context of “Purgatory” which was done by the famous author of the Chronicles of Narnia series (book and movie), Professor C. S. Lewis:

“In The Great Divorce the narrator (Lewis) asks George MacDonald: “I don’t understand. Is judgment not final? Is there really a way out of Hell into Heaven?” MacDonald answers:

It depends on the way ye’re using the words. If they leave that grey town behind it will not have been Hell. To any that leaves it, it is Purgatory. And perhaps ye had better not call this country Heaven. Not Deep Heaven, ye understand.” (Here he smiled at me.) ‘Ye can call it the Valley of the Shadow of Life. And yet to those who stay here it will have been Heaven from the first. And ye can call those sad streets in the town yonder the Valley of the Shadow of Death: but to those who remain there they will have been Hell even from the beginning.’ ” [174]

We know that these are not the personal convictions of George Macdonald [175] alone since C. S. Lewis [176]also believed in purgatory while being a protestant in his quote below (which supports the Non Elect Salvation possibility position which is a refinement of it):

“Of course I pray for the dead. The action is so spontaneous, so all but inevitable, that only the most compulsive theological case against it would deter me. And I hardly know how the rest of my prayers would survive if those for the dead were forbidden. At our age the majority of those we love best are dead. What sort of intercourse with God could I have if what I love best were unmentionable to Him? On the traditional Protestant view, all the dead are damned or saved. If they are damned, prayer for them is useless. If they are saved, it is equally useless. God has already done all for them. What more should we ask? But don’t we believe that God has already done and is already doing all that He can for the living? What more should we ask? Yet we are told to ask.

“Yes,” it will be answered, “but the living are still on the road. Further trials, developments, possibilities of error, await them. But the saved have been made perfect. They have finished the course. To pray for them presupposes that progress and difficulty are still possible. In fact, you are bringing in something like Purgatory.”

Well, I suppose I am. Though even in Heaven some perpetual increase of beatitude, reached by a continually more ecstatic self-surrender, without the possibility of failure but not perhaps without its own ardours and exertions–for delight also has its severities and steep ascents, as lovers know–might be supposed. But I won’t press, or guess, that side for the moment. I believe in Purgatory.

Mind you, the Reformers had good reasons for throwing doubt on “the Romish doctrine concerning Purgatory” as that Romish doctrine had then become.” [177]

St. John of Damascus (c. 675 AD – c. 749 AD) who is sometimes called the last father of the church also uses the phrase Shadow of Death to refer to punishment regions of Hades where he says that Christ set free anyone who saw him and believed in Him there. This believing after seeing case included even some of the prisoners and even those who were bound for ages meaning these could be Non Elect Salvation but also reveals that for those who didn’t believe in Him in Hades, He became a reproach for their unbelief even there.

“The soul2245 when it was deified descended into Hades, in order that, just as the Sun of Righteousness2246 rose for those upon the earth, so likewise He might bring light to those who sit under the earth in darkness 73band shadow of death2247: in order that just as He brought the message of peace to those upon the earth, and of release to the prisoners, and of sight to the blind2248, and became to those who believed the Author of everlasting salvation and to those who did not believe a reproach of their unbelief2249, so He might become the same to those in Hades2250: That every knee should bow to Him, of things in heaven, and things in earth and things under the earth2251. And thus after He had freed those who had been bound for ages, straightway He rose again from the dead, shewing us the way of resurrection.” [178]

Even if the literal phrase Shadow of Death refers to this world as some claim [179], Scripture is sometimes known to have a twofold* meaning (both true) and so the allegorical meaning for Shadow of Death (or if the labels for literal or allegorical here is the other way around too, it doesn’t matter) since either way it would justify that the Shadow of Death also has a Spirit World meaning (as other Bible verses even literally point to Shadow of Death referring solely to the Spirit World context only [180]).

*For example, Prophet Hosea calls Israel literally as the Son God saved out of Egypt in this verse:

“When Israel was a child, I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son.” [181]

But in the New Testament, Matthew clearly writes the deeper allegorical meaning here namely, that this verse also prophesied Christ’s escape from Egypt as a child:

“14When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, 15and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.” [182]

A word of caution: We should be careful not to simply add any allegorical meaning to any literal Scripture or vice versa. We can present them as possibilities which is safe as long as we do not teach them as doctrine where in that case, we better be right!

7. Did St. Justin of Rome teach Non Elect Salvation?

St. Justin of Rome may have taught non-elect salvation ranks of servants as being different and much lower from sons where the latter is only for Christians now (together with Old Testament faithful) in his mysterious comparison quote below:

“Attend therefore to what I say. The marriages of Jacob were types of that which Christ was about to accomplish. For it was not lawful for Jacob to marry two sisters at once. And he serves Laban for [one of] the daughters; and being deceived in [the obtaining of] the younger, he again served seven years. Now Leah is your people and synagogue; but Rachel is our Church. And for these, and for the servants in both, Christ even now serves. For while Noah gave to the two sons the seed of the third as servants, now on the other hand Christ has come to restore both the free sons and the servants among them, conferring the same honour on all of them who keep His commandments; even as the children of the free women and the children of the bond women born to Jacob were all sons, and equal in dignity. And it was foretold what each should be according to rank and according to fore-knowledge. Jacob served Laban for speckled and many-spotted sheep; and Christ served, even to the slavery of the cross, for the various and many-formed races of mankind, acquiring them by the blood and mystery of the cross. Leah was weak-eyed; for the eyes of your souls are excessively weak. Rachel stole the gods of Laban, and has hid them to this day; and we have lost our paternal and material gods. Jacob was hated for all time by his brother; and we now, and our Lord Himself, are hated by you and by all men, though we are brothers by nature. Jacob was called Israel; and Israel has been demonstrated to be the Christ, who is, and is called, Jesus.” [183]

i) Salvation Rank of Elect Salvation here [Interpolation Mine]

“but Rachel is our Church. And for these [Church], … Christ even now serves. For while Noah gave to the two sons … now on the other hand Christ has come to restore both the free sons …, conferring the same honour on all of them who keep His commandments; even as the children of the free women …. And it was foretold what each should be according to rank and according to fore-knowledge.”

The Church (of Rachel and free women parabolically) has servants level and sons level salvation rank if these quotes are read literally here. This “level” is dependent upon how well they “keep His Commandments”. My interpolation here is that servants level could be Non Elect Salvation since they didn’t manage to attain to the minimum thirtyfold level [184] obedience required to become part of “His Bride/Sons of God” as only a few make it for this difficult Elect Salvation in comparison.

ii) Salvation Rank of Non Elect Salvation here [Interpolation Mine]

“Now Leah is your people [unbelieving Jews] and synagogue [non-Christians]; …, And for these [Church, implied in comparison of] and for the servants in both [Church and Synagogue], Christ even now serves. … the seed of the third as servants, … and the servants among them [among the Church and Synagogue], conferring the same honour on all of them who keep His commandments… and the children of the bond women born to Jacob were all sons, and equal in dignity. And it was foretold what each should be according to rank and according to fore-knowledge.”

The lower rank of Non Elect Salvation seems to apply to those who produce the servant level obedience in regard to His Commandments. It’s definitely a must to believe in Christ to be considered “His Sons” level of higher rank.

iii) What is the “equality” meant here in regard to all being sons? [Interpolation Mine]

“now on the other hand Christ has come to restore both the free sons [Elect Salvation] and the servants [Non Elect Salvation] among them, conferring the same honour on all of them who keep His commandments; even as the children of the free women [Elect Salvation] and the children of the bond women [Non Elect Salvation] born to Jacob were all sons [earthly context due to obeying God’s Commands in some way], and equal in dignity [fair chance of being honoured by God]. And it was foretold what each should be according to rank [Elect vs Non Elect Salvation] and according to fore-knowledge [of God, His Predestination].”

St. Justin of Rome’s classification of “sons versus servants” mirrors that of St. Gregory Nazianzus who also has this strange quote where he writes,

“I know of three classes among the saved; the slaves, the hired servants, the sons.” [185]

Now, since all those of elect salvation are “sons of God” [186] and all Christians are saved in the marriage of the Lamb during the first resurrection in Chiliasm timeline [187], the hired servants could be Israel’s non-elect salvation [188]while the slaves could be the gentiles’ non-elect salvation as the ‘surprised sheep’ of the nations [189] taking Matthew 25 to be viewed as a judgment summary for this entire 1000 years (Millennial) Reign of Christ.

Christ also initially called Christians as servants but because they do His Will, they begin to know Him and so they are no longer servants but friends (and upgrade where the family word applied to us after adoption is sons of God in the First Resurrection context).

“14You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you.” [190]

“34Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.” [191]

This agrees with Matthew 25:1 – 13’s Parable of 5 Wise and 5 Foolish Virgins because it’s about the Wedding of the Lamb context and those true Christians become His Bride thereafter sharing One Flesh with Him in some way (a Great Mystery) [192]. These interpolations agree well with the Final Scene (Revelation 21 and Revelation 22 which are “last chapters” of the Bible verses) which calls the Elect Salvation as the “Bride” only:

“Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife … and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God” [193]

“17And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.” [194]

However notice carefully that just like Matthew 25:14 – 46 calls the salvation of the rest as servants or just righteous from the nations (“Gentiles”), the verse earlier in John 15:14 – 15 can mean that they are called such since they do not know His Will(hence “servants”, right?) which could imply that these are possibly “Non Christians” and this same label is carried forward in the Final Scene likewise, compare (neither called Bride?):

Non Elect Salvation for Israel (called Servants only even in this final scene. Compare with Matthew 25:14 – 30).

“3And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.” [195]

Non Elect Salvation for Gentiles (called the nations of those who are saved who get the leaves of the Tree [of Life] for the healing of the nations together with the Thirsty ones who get the Water of Life during this Final Scene. Compare with Matthew 25:31 – 46).

“6 … I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. … 24And the nations [n]of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor [o]into it. … … 2In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. … 17And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely” [196]

My Interpolations here together with both St. Justin of Rome and St. Gregory Nazianzus’ wordings agree with Galatians 4’s Bible verses below where it is clearly distinguished between a “slave” and “son” in the context of Salvation where even any Gentile is a “slave” first (Non Christians possibly since slave refers to when this same Christian was an unbeliever in his life, right? Galatians 4:1, 3 says being under this world’s elements and bondage) but when he believes in Christ, he becomes a “son” (Christian, Galatians 4:4 – 7) where the former does not inherit the kingdom while the later inherits the kingdom:

“1Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born[a] of a woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, [b]“Abba, Father!” 7Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir [c]of God [d]through Christ.” [197]

In light of Bible verses such as the one below (next), those “slaves” saved during the Second Resurrection described below in Chiliasm timeline could thus be Non Elect Salvation since they rule the final new earth as the word city is specified here (more detail than Matthew 25:31 – 46) or some are just saved as regulars as part of the nations of those who are saved as we saw earlier too (meaning they are not kings and priests like Christians and generally cannot even enter heaven, I add):

“12Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. … 15“And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’ ” [198]

Example further interpolations by me: Luke 19:12 above speaks of the Millennial Reign kingdom which Christ receives with His Bride (Christians) during the Marriage of the Lamb and the far country is the current old heavens. After the 1000 years, Christ Returns and judges the servants (Israel) in regard to how they ruled over the (old) earth nations fulfilling all Old Testament Jewish prophecies relating to mortal earth and mortal man and the end of it, gives them a city to rule in that final new earth (so “possibly”, these are part of the servants rankings St. Justin of Rome was talking about earlier).

Now, if they rule a city in thatfinal new earth (implied in Chiliasm timeline), then wouldn’t there be a normal non-city-ruler, non-king, non-priest but saved person among those final “nations of those saved” [who are ruled over by these faithful ones] as mentioned in Revelation 21:24 – 27 earlier who could be the even lower rank of this Non Elect Salvation.

Matthew 25:31 – 46 refers to this same Judgment but for Gentiles (“nations”) from all timeline during the Second Resurrection where some are saved while some are condemned likewise. We must remember that different Bible verses could be revealing different types of final judgment as we see together with Chiliasm Church Father quotes and try to interpolate a possibility model like this.

The only ones that get slain at the end of this judgment timeline are those citizens who did not want Christ to rule over them (by their own free will choice) which parallels the last rebellion described in the Book of Revelation [199]:

“27But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.” [200]

St. Justin of Rome seems to see mankind classified into three categories (Christians or righteous, sinners and wicked) instead of two categories (righteous versus wicked) which agrees to some equally mysterious Bible verses [201] as well:

“For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for it? Lay up treasure, therefore, in heaven, where neither moth nor rust does corrupt. And, Be kind and merciful, as your Father also is kind and merciful, and makes His sun to rise on sinners, and the righteous, and the wicked. Take no thought what you shall eat, or what you shall put on: are you not better than the birds and the beasts? And God feeds them. Take no thought, therefore, what you shall eat, or what you shall put on; for your heavenly Father knows that you have need of these things. But seek the kingdom of heaven, and all these things shall be added unto you. For where his treasure is, there also is the mind of a man.” [202]

Maybe sinners are saved by fire and the ungodly (wicked) are unsaved while the righteous (Christians) are saved without judgment [203] (just a thought to match these 3 categories of men). This possibility will be discussed in Chapter 10.

Not only that, St. Justin of Rome seems to have a non-elect salvation quote even toward some “sinners” possibly when related to his quote earlier whose salvation seems to be drawn in analogy of the Bride or Christians (righteous) below:

“And so he says: ‘Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ Isaiah 53:1-2 (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child. Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation. And in short, sirs, by enumerating all the other appointments of Moses I can demonstrate that they were types, and symbols, and declarations of those things which would happen to Christ, of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him, and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself. But since what I have now enumerated appears to me to be sufficient, I revert again to the order of the discourse.” [204]

Compare for highlight next:

Possible Non Elect Salvation part: the wicked (sinners) becoming obedient/subjected – as one child (non-elect).

“We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child, it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child … and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself”

Possible Elect Salvation part: the Church (elect) is compared as an analogy to that [Emphasis Mine].

“Such a thing [Analogy] as you may witness in the body [Christians]: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation … of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him,”

Am I reading St. Justin of Rome right? That’s open to debate and my job is done as I have listed all these possibilities with evidences from his writing and ponder it as it is.

Here is an example modification of a Jewish definition regarding elect versus non elect salvation possibility which I thought of:

i) Full proselyte (ger Tzedek, devout proselyte)

A “devout proselyte” is a gentile/jew who has converted to Christianity, is bound to all the doctrines and precepts of the Christian religion, and is considered a full member of the Christian people. This elect salvation refers to Christians who are His bride and participate in the first resurrection as kings and priests. These are saved to inherit the new heavens with gradations of thirty, sixty and hundredfold among them where they inherit all things but have “specific difference in rewards too” who obtain celestial (“heavenly”) final resurrection body at the last trumpet changing from human to no more flesh and blood during the consummation of the marriage of the Lamb at the end of the 1000 years (Millennial) reign of Christ sharing “one flesh” with Christ in some way to inherit bodily glory too.[205]

ii) Half proselyte (ger toshav, limited proselyte)

A ” limited proselyte” is a gentile/jew who has not converted to Christianity and hence may be keeping the holiness and charity doctrine commands of Christ to some extent based on the “Parable of the Good Samaritan” (Luke 10:25 – 37) and the “Surprised Sheep of the Nations” (Matthew 25:31 – 46). These may believe in Christ after seeing (John 6:40) and hence obtain non-elect salvation with terrestrial (“earthly”) final resurrection body during the second resurrection and be part of the nations who are saved on the final new earth with kings reigning over them and most would not be able to enter the heavenly new Jerusalem city which descends and connects to the new earth at that time.[206]

Notice that the only Bible verse containing this exact phrase “last trumpet” is 1 Corinthians 15:52. Now, if you compare these “last trumpet” quotes, which according to St. Victorinus of Pettau happens at the “end of 1000 years Millennial Reign” (quoted earlier) where if combined with St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ quote where he seems to imply a second badge of righteous saved in “identical human bodies” (so earthly/terrestrial resurrection glory [207]) meaning non-elect salvation even toward his “enemies/opponents” context [208] which could possibly be the surprised sheep of the nations who seem to not know the Lord but the Lord knows them [209]based on their Charity Doctrine good acts toward “His Brethren” (Christians) [210]. Please remember that under the Chiliasm Prophecy Timeline Christians are already saved for 1000 years participating in the first resurrection and now on Judgment Day, when the rest of the nations are judged, Christians are turned into no more flesh and blood being heavenly and so it seems hard to imagine these newly saved “surprised sheep” of the nations to be Christians because these are just saved now during this end of 1000 years!

This is why we encourage non-Christians to do Charity Doctrine acts toward Christians in hope that they may be saved by His Mercy. We don’t discourage them to believe because we also present the evidence of eternal hell if they do not repent on earth now showing honestly both possibilities as it exists in Christian thought. Remember that there seems to be two types of final saved resurrection bodies with glory, one heavenly (Elect) and the other earthly (Non Elect) and a resurrection body with “glory” cannot refer to the “unsaved” ones which are the ones where “no glory” is involved in the Second Resurrection timeline, right?

“40There are also [g]celestial bodies and [h]terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.” [211]

Please also notice that the final resurrection “body” which is raised in “incorruption” seems to be of two types namely, of celestial “glory” and of terrestrial “glory”. Let’s map this to the Final Scene and try to make an interpolation:

“5Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said [b]to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.” 6And He said to me, “It[c] is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7He who overcomes [d]shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8But the cowardly, [e]unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” [212]

Possibility by highlighting phrases from the second last chapter in Bible verses above:

i) The “Overcomers” = Christians (Elect Salvation) = “7He who overcomes [d]shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.”

ii) The “Thirsty” ones = Non-Elect Salvation possibility toward some Non-Christians? = “I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.”

iii) The “Damned” = Unsaved and remaining in the Lake of Fire = “8But the cowardly, [e]unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

In verses above, doesn’t the “overcomers” sound way greater than the “thirsty” ones? If so, then the “overcomers” are not the same as the “thirsty” ones, right? Notice that there are Bible verses which show that “overcomers” refer only to those of faith [213] hence Christians while the “thirsty” can refer to those who believe a little because Christ Said that those who believe in Him will “never thirst” [214]. Also, if the “thirsty” have believed in Christ during their earthly lives itself prior to their deaths and before that final scene even which occurs after Judgment Day (“Last Day” parabolically referring to this entire Sabbath or 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ with bodily resurrection), then they would be considered as faith level too plus this event happens in the “final scene” at the end of 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ meaning Christians or the Bride have been saved for 1000 years already and thus it would seem strange that any of them would still be “thirsty” at this time, right?

Just like the unlearnt case requires such saved ones to see and believe in Lord Jesus Christ in the Spirit World, such “saved by fire” case ones of 1 Corinthians 3:15 also may refer to this class of “believing after seeing” case of John 6:29, 35, 36, 40 [215] where Christ was only angry with the Jews for not believing Him even after seeing Him and His miracles and other works. The context of seeing the Risen Christ and then given a chance to believe is also evidenced in Apostle St. Thomas’ conversion too [216].

This interpretation supports the non-elect salvation possibility because in this same second last chapter of the Bible (Revelation 21), we see that the Bride (Church) from heaven [217]is mentioned differently from the “nations who are saved” [218]where the former is no more flesh and blood having celestial (heavenly) resurrection bodies after this “change” while the latter are saved with “human or terrestrial (earthly)” bodies [219]only and not all enter heaven in that final earth after judgment day since the book of life results have been revealed too (verse 27).

The presence of a gate (verse 25) seems to indicate that not all of those “nations saved” can enter that lowest heavenly new Jerusalem city which descends and connects to that final new earth where in comparison, the kings of that final new earth who rule over them are clearly mentioned to enter that lowest heavenly city (verse 24). Moreover, in the last chapter of the Bible, the Bride (Elect, Christians) seems to call “others/thirsty” (so Non Elect Salvation possibility) to be saved and take the “Water of Life” freely as follows:

“And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely” [220].

Chiliasm Church Fathers clearly describe 1000 years in a perfect human body resurrection for Christians in old earth and heavens before the change into no more flesh and blood at this time as discussed in later sections. This means that Christians are having a heavenly body now (celestial) and so can enter heaven but some of those saved on earth have only an earthly body glory (terrestrial) [221]and so cannot enter these final heavens with it meaning no one can trick or bypass the gate secretly since even physically it’s impossible.

So, it can be inferred that Christians partake of the “Water of Life” during that 1000 years in sinless human resurrected body [222] and when “changed” into no more human or no more flesh and blood, they don’t need to take the “water of life” anymore. Notice that the source of the “water of life” is Christ [223]and He administers life in that way possibly because the “human” body can only receive it in that way but after the “change”, the Bride is “one flesh” with Him and so can partake life from Him directly meaning the Bride doesn’t need the “water of life” anymore. If this interpretation is true, then those saved as humans, i.e. non-elect salvation ones of the “nations of those saved” partake the “water of life” which flows into that final new earth where they dwell in their terrestrial (earthly) resurrection bodies.

The change from human to no more flesh and blood quotes for the Bride by Chiliasm Church Fathers [224]is fascinating and stands in contrast to all prophecy interpretation found in modern Christianity be it protestants, catholic or orthodox. Could it be that this prophecy accuracy was lost and now found? In light of the evidence and the big Church Fathers’ names that are quoted, personally, I think these has a high probability of being true. Nevertheless, since we cannot know prophecy until it comes to pass, this will remain a mystery.

8. Tertullian did not Teach Non Elect Salvation but could he have Erred?

Catholics believe in purgatory while the Orthodox do not call it by that name but also sometimes take note that some may be saved in the Spirit World context as some of the early Church Fathers have some quotes along that line of reasoning [225]. Generally, protestants do not believe in any type of salvation after death and any difference from this belief is held privately.

Tertullian believed in some type of purgatory regarding Christ’s ‘till the last penny judgment verses’ [226] as shown next:

“and lest this Judge deliver you over to the angel who is to execute the sentence, and he commit you to the prison of hell, out of which there will be no dismissal until the smallest even of your delinquencies be paid off in the period before the resurrection. 1735 What can be a more fitting sense than this? What a truer interpretation? [227] … In short, inasmuch as we understand “the prison” pointed out in the Gospel to be Hades, [18421842 Matt. v. 25.] and as we also interpret “the uttermost farthing” [18431843 Ver. 26.] to mean the very smallest offence which has to be recompensed there before the resurrection,1844 no one will hesitate to believe that the soul undergoes in Hades some compensatory discipline, without prejudice to the full process of the resurrection, when the recompense will be administered through the flesh besides. [228]… It is the transformation these shall undergo which he explains to the Corinthians, when he writes: “We shall all indeed rise again (though we shall not all undergo the transformation) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump”—for none shall experience this change but those only who shall be found in the flesh. “And the dead,” he says, “shall be raised, and we shall be changed.” … in such a way that mortality may be swallowed up of life, that is, by putting on over us whilst we are transformed that vestiture which is from heaven.” [229]

As per his quotes above, Tertullian repeatedly emphasizes that this till the last penny Judgment Verses represents someone who is judged in the Spirit World context and saved but is referring to fallen Christians only and this happens in the timeline now in Hades before the final judgment. Here’s another sample quote of his where he stresses that the change into something heavenly or angelic as per Chiliasm prophecy using 1 Corinthians 15:52 (as his other words declare see Chapter 15 or page 129 earlier) must happen to those of the first resurrection since they must be found in flesh first which would include even such ones who have been punished in hades first:

“For who is there that will not desire, while he is in the flesh, to put on immortality, and to continue his life by a happy escape from death, through the transformation which must be experienced instead of it, without encountering too that Hades which will exact the very last farthing? Notwithstanding, he who has already traversed Hades is destined also to obtain the change after the resurrection. For from this circumstance it is that we definitively declare that the flesh will by all means rise again, and, from the change that is to come over it, will assume the condition of angels. Now, if it were merely in the case of those who shall be found in the flesh that the change must be undergone, in order that mortality may be swallowed up of life — in other words, that the flesh (be covered) with the heavenly and eternal raiment — it would either follow that those who shall be found in death would not obtain life, deprived as they would then be of the material and so to say the aliment of life, that is, the flesh; or else, these also must needs undergo the change, that in them too mortality may be swallowed up of life, since it is appointed that they too should obtain life.” [230]

Please compare with St. Irenaeus of Lyons quote with these similar verses below (where he does not comment on whether the spirit world judgment part is true or not so we can’t say much) and also St. Justin of Rome’s quote thereafter too using these same type of Bible verses which could point to “Non Elect Salvation” since it seems to apply to some “wicked” context but not those who are “too wicked”, right?

“They affirm that for this reason Jesus spoke the following parable:— Whilst you are with your adversary in the way, give all diligence, that you may be delivered from him, lest he give you up to the judge, and the judge surrender you to the officer, and he cast you into prison. Verily, I say unto you, you shall not go out thence until you pay the very last farthing. Matthew 5:25-26; Luke 12:58-59 … for they declare that the body is the prison. Again, they interpret these expressions, You shall not go out thence until you pay the very last farthing, as meaning that no one can escape from the power of those angels who made the world, but that he must pass from body to body, until he has experience of every kind of action which can be practised in this world, and when nothing is longer wanting to him, then his liberated soul should soar upwards to that God who is above the angels, the makers of the world.” [231]

“And in the tenth book he plainly and manifestly wrote what he had learned from the prophets about the judgment … and was lying on the funeral pile, came to life again, and described the other world. … For we saw, among other terrible sights, this also. When we were close to the mouth [of the pit] and were about to return to the upper air, and had suffered everything else, we suddenly beheld both him and others likewise, most of whom were tyrants. But there were also some private sinners who had committed great crimes. And these, when they thought they were to ascend, the mouth would not permit, but bellowed when any of those who were so incurably wicked attempted to ascend, unless they had paid the full penalty. … and that the punishments and torments were such as these, and that, on the other hand, the rewards were the reverse of these.” Here Plato seems to me to have learned from the prophets not only the doctrine of the judgment, but also of the resurrection, which the Greeks refuse to believe. For his saying that the soul is judged along with the body, proves nothing more clearly than that he believed the doctrine of the resurrection.” [232]

Here’s my interpolation: If Non Elect Salvation turns out true, then Tertullian’s error here is due to the fact that he assumes that Christ makes anyone judged and saved from Hades itself as “His Bride”. Tertullian seems to strongly imply that Christ’s Atonement can apply to those after judgment in Hades first and also that some are saved in the Spirit World (Hades) even now meaning “salvation in Hades” is not an one time event by Christ toward those who existed before Him. Maybe this itself is proof of Non Elect Salvation because anyone saved from any type of Spirit World judgment could be that instead of “Elect Salvation” since they did not have faith nor works to attain to minimum bearing fruit good ground thirtyfold harvest of the Gospel [233] to be part of those who do not come into any Spirit World Judgment being true Christians [234], right?

Christ described the “Judgment till the last penny” to involve “torturers” so it’s strong for “Spirit World or Final Judgment Context since it’s pointed to the wicked too” (I mean if Tertullian believes that whoever undergoes the “till last penny” judgment verses gets saved, then doesn’t it imply that the “wicked servant” also gets saved after Judgment in Verses below?):

“32Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.35’So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [g]his trespasses.’ ” [235]

Also, I don’t think that Christ would make the “wicked servant” to be “His Bride” which only seems to include those with “clean repentance and good works on earth” [236]as compared to anyone saved in “spirit world after judgment”, right? So, I think if Tertullian’s view that some who enter purgatory like this get saved after some type of spirit world judgment is true, then these could be Non Elect Salvation.

A key difference is Matthew 18 calls such a person as “Wicked Servant” where the word wicked seems to contradict their position that this refers to those of ‘lighter sins holy Catholics’ type but Christ called such ones as “wicked”. A “wicked servant” gets the same as an “unbeliever” according to Luke 12:46 [237], right? So the interpolation here is natural that some of the unbelievers too may likewise be saved after Spirit World Judgment if God Wills it. Let’s look at a free will and judgment discussion by St. Irenaeus of Lyons below which is difficult to interpret but it employs the context for Luke 12:46 – 48 quoted earlier and the discussion ends with an equally mysterious verse and quote as well, let’s consider:

“And again, The servant who knows his Lord’s will, and does it not, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luke 12:47 And, Why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46 And again, But if the servant say in his heart, The Lord delays, and begin to beat his fellow-servants, and to eat, and drink, and to be drunken, his Lord will come in a day on which he does not expect Him, and shall cut him in sunder, and appoint his portion with the hypocrites. Luke 12:45-46; Matthew 24:48-51 All such passages demonstrate the independent will of man, and at the same time the counsel which God conveys to him, by which He exhorts us to submit ourselves to Him, and seeks to turn us away from [the sin of] unbelief against Him, without, however, in any way coercing us. … 4. No doubt, if any one is unwilling to follow the Gospel itself, it is in his power [to reject it], but it is not expedient. For it is in man’s power to disobey God, and to forfeit what is good; but [such conduct] brings no small amount of injury and mischief. … for God has displayed long-suffering in the case of man’s apostasy; while man has been instructed by means of it, as also the prophet says, Your own apostasy shall heal you; Jeremiah 2:19 [238] God thus determining all things beforehand for the bringing of man to perfection, for his edification, and for the revelation of His dispensations, that goodness may both be made apparent, and righteousness perfected, and that the Church may be fashioned after the image of His Son, and that man may finally be brought to maturity at some future time, becoming ripe through such privileges to see and comprehend God.” [239]

Possible Elect Salvation quote here by St. Irenaeus.

“and righteousness perfected, and that the Church may be fashioned after the image of His Son”

Compare with these Bible verses:

“Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife … and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God” [240]

Possible Non Elect Salvation quote here by St. Irenaeus.

“for God has displayed long-suffering in the case of man’s apostasy; while man has been instructed by means of it, as also the prophet says, Your own apostasy shall heal you; Jeremiah 2:19 [241] God thus determining all things beforehand for the bringing of man to perfection, … and that man may finally be brought to maturity at some future time, becoming ripe through such privileges to see and comprehend God.”

Compare with these Bible verses:

Compare the quotes by St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Tertullian and St. Justin of Rome earlier with these quotes by St. Athenagoras of Athens (c. 133 AD – c. 190 AD) next who was an Apologetics Church Father from around that same time period:

“And we shall make no mistake in saying, that the final cause of an intelligent life and rational judgment, is to be occupied uninterruptedly with those objects to which the natural reason is chiefly and primarily adapted, and to delight unceasingly in the contemplation of Him who is, and of His decrees, notwithstanding that the majority of men, because they are affected too passionately and too violently by things below, pass through life without attaining this object. For the large number of those who fail of the end that belongs to them does not make void the common lot, since the examination relates to individuals, and the reward or punishment of lives ill or well spent is proportioned to the merit of each.” [243]

Possible Elect Salvation quote here by St. Athenagoras.

Possible Non Elect Salvation quote here by St. Athenagoras.

“majority of men, because they are affected too passionately and too violently by things below, pass through life without attaining this object. For the large number of those who fail of the end that belongs to them does not make void the common lot, since the examination relates to individuals, and the reward or punishment of lives ill or well spent is proportioned to the merit of each.”

Doesn’t the quote above by St. Athenagoras of Athens imply that “majority of men” will “fail” to “attain to elect salvation” via “the contemplation of Him who is, and of His decrees” but yet are not voided from life but may get the “common lot” which could be describing Non Elect Salvation after temporal Spirit World Judgments which are administered only after a life is fully spent first because only then a measure is made and St. Athenagoras says here that “the reward or punishment of lives ill or well spent is proportioned to the merit of each”?

Matching this with our discussions earlier, this Non Elect Salvation could be the “nations of those who are saved” mentioned in Revelation 21:24 on the final new earth who fail to attain to Elect Salvation to become the Bride to inherit the Heavens in Revelation 21:9 and may experience the common lot of the water of life freely too as mentioned in both the last chapters of the Bible as even the Bride (Church) calls them to partake of it at that future time [244].

If non-elect salvation turns out to be true, then the “few” saved refers to Elect Salvation [245] who become His Bride [246]and enter heaven [247] while Christ’s Ransom for “many” [248]includes those of non-elect salvation too who get the final abode on the final new earth only [249] and are called by the Bride to take the water of life [250] which flows freely into the final new earth in this final scene and “healing from the leaves of the tree of life” whose Source is Christ [251]is needed for those non-elect salvation of the nations since they could just be “saved by fire” [252](note that Christians are already resurrected and saved for 1000 years when this happens in Chiliasm timeline and so the possibility that a Christian is requiring the “healing from the leaves of the tree of life” in this final scene seems difficult to accept, right?) Maybe this is what is meant by prophet Daniel [253] that “many” shall be “purified” meaning “saved by fire”. Hence non-elect salvation could explain why some sayings or conclusion type Bible verses seem to hint at a larger group to be saved [254] where believers are a subset of it [255]. Even St. Jerome of the Vulgate (c. 347 AD – c. 420 AD) highlights the importance of doctrinal accuracy using the context of Daniel 12:3[256]. I will end this chapter by quoting the “Septuagint (LXX)” for these prophecy Verses from Daniel below which can be compared against the “Masoretic” [257].

“2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame. 3And the wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament, and some of the many righteous as the stars for ever and ever. …. 10Many must be tested, and thoroughly whitened, and tried with fire, and sanctified; but the transgressors shall transgress and none of the transgressors shall understand; but the wise shall understand.” [258]

And these verses:

“24“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. … 27and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.” [259]

My interpolation based on these Bible verses to match the Elect Salvation, Non Elect Salvation Possibility vs the damned:

Possible Elect Salvation here in Daniel 12:3 since in Chiliasm timeline, this happens during the Second Resurrection and so change from human to angelic happens and Christians shine (literally) with glory from higher heavens level to lower stars level.

“3And the wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament, and some of the many righteous as the stars for ever and ever.” (Septuagint)

“3Those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament, and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever.” (Masoretic)

Possible Non Elect Salvation in Daniel 12:2, 10 because in Chiliasm timeline these are just rising from the dead during Second Resurrection. Remember that Christians are already resurrected in the First Resurrection for 1000 years by now [261] and do not rise simultaneously with the wicked if these verses are literally read as it is done here.

“2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life …. 10Many must be tested, and thoroughly whitened, and tried with fire, and sanctified;” (Septuagint)

“2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, … 10Many shall be purified, made white, and refined” (Masoretic)

“28Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life” [262]

The damned

“2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, …, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.” (Septuagint)

“2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, … some to shame and everlasting contempt.” (Masoretic)

“27and has given Him authority to execute judgment … 28Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice … and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.” [263]

In short, in light of all these evidences, I think that Non Elect Salvation Possibility is for some or all who are sentenced to Till the Last Penny Judgment Bible verses.

“22 … But whoever says, [g]‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of [h]hell fire. … remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.” [264]

9. Did St. Irenaeus of Lyons Possibly Teach Non Elect Salvation for Some?

The Principal idea is viewing three categories of men (righteous, sinners and wicked) instead of two categories of men (righteous versus wicked) only implying possibly righteous to be saved in the final heavens zone, as referring to any Christian who will be in the “Wedding” of the Lamb context, sinners being saved in the final new earth zone, while the wicked unsaved in the Lake of Fire in comparison.

In light of Non Elect Salvation possibility, I also present whether Christ’s Reply in Matthew 19 can be viewed as presenting Elect vs Non-Elect Salvation. The interpolation here is whether keeping the “last” 6 Commandments relating to man merits Non Elect Salvation while in addition to that, keeping the remaining “first” 4 Commandments (except Sabbath which is not necessary for Gentile believers) will merit the fruit for Elect Salvation in comparison. In other Bible Verses where Christ quotes statements such as Love God and Love your neighbour as yourself, these could be referring exclusively for Elect Salvation only because the person is able to receive them or is “not far from the Kingdom of God (Heaven level)” [265].

I mean in Matthew 19, the rich man did walk away sorrowful since he couldn’t obey Christ’s “follow Me” part which involved “Charity Doctrine” as well so perhaps that’s why Christ in His Foreknowledge gave a two-fold reply implying a Non Elect Salvation requirement first before inviting that rich man to the higher Elect Salvation requirement for entrance into life. This is not salvation by works but the level and gradation of Salvation which is based on how much one could follow Christ’s Commands here via believing after seeing possibility too. Compare:

Non Elect Salvation requirement by Christ (Interpolation)

“16Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[d] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17So He said to him, [e]“Why do you call Me good? [f]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’” [266]

Compare with Elect Salvation part next which must include all the above commands plus others relating to “following Christ” which is in context of “knowing God” and having a personal relationship with Him by “obeying His Commands” [267].

Elect Salvation requirement by Christ (Interpolation)

“20The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [g]from my youth. What do I still lack?” 21Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.” [268]

Regarding the Non Elect Salvation possibility, this verse can also explain it since the phrase Shadow of Death can refer to Spirit World regions and hence, some may be saved there if God Wills. Indeed, Let’s look at the Bible verses next for a “Possible” Non Elect Salvation quote for some with this phrase “Shadow of Death” meaning they’re saved from the Spirit World since Shadow of Death is mentioned and because it is toward those who rebelled against God and rejected God’s plans for their lives here:

We know that this part of Old Testament Scripture is preserved since even the rival Septuagint manuscript to this translation based on Masoretic above reads the same [270].

Now, let’s look at St. Irenaeus of Lyons quote containing this same phrase Shadow of Death which he seems to point together with the lower parts of the earth phrase (Ephesians 4:9 – 10) to refer to this Spirit World or Intermediate place for souls without body context but does not comment on the punishment regions of Hades and rather focuses on the comfort regions of Hades (implied) since he talks about the disciples context here:

Compare with a quote from St. Irenaeus’ Lost Writings:

“Christ, who was called the Son of God before the ages, was manifested in the fullness of time, in order that He might cleanse us through His blood, who were under the power of sin, presenting us as pure sons to His Father, if we yield ourselves obediently to the chastisement of the Spirit. And in the end of time He shall come to do away with all evil, and to reconcile all things [272], in order that there may be an end of all impurities.” [273]

Possible Elect Salvation here as this happens during the 1000 years First Resurrection timeline in Chiliasm:

“presenting us as pure sons to His Father, if we yield ourselves obediently to the chastisement of the Spirit.”

Possible Non Elect Salvation here as this happens during the Second Resurrection timeline in Chiliasm:

“And in the end of time He shall come to do away with all evil, and to reconcile all things, in order that there may be an end of all impurities.”

Regarding the “believing after seeing” Christ in the Spirit World possibility, St. Irenaeus of Lyons clearly states that it happened to some being appointed to be Elect Salvation as well in his quote below toward those righteous of not just Israel but Gentiles too (implied). Notice that this literally includes believing and seeing in the Spirit World context here:

“For this is the end of the human race inheriting God; that as in the beginning, by means of our first [parents], we were all brought into bondage, by being made subject to death; so at last, by means of the New Man, all who from the beginning [were His] disciples, having been cleansed and washed from things pertaining to death, should come to the life of God. … As Jeremiah declares, The holy Lord remembered His dead Israel, who slept in the land of sepulture; and He descended to them to make known to them His salvation, that they might be saved. … in token that His passion is the arousing of His sleeping disciples, on whose account He also descended into the lower parts of the earth, Ephesians 4:9 to behold with His eyes the state of those who were resting from their labours, in reference to whom He did also declare to the disciples: Many prophets and righteous men have desired to see and hear what you see and hear. Matthew 13:17 … 2. For it was not merely for those who believed on Him in the time of Tiberius Cæsar that Christ came, nor did the Father exercise His providence for the men only who are now alive, but for all men altogether, who from the beginning, according to their capacity, in their generation have both feared and loved God, and practised justice and piety towards their neighbours, and have earnestly desired to see Christ, and to hear His voice. Wherefore He shall, at His second coming, first rouse from their sleep all persons of this description, and shall raise them up, as well as the rest who shall be judged, and give them a place in His kingdom.” [274]

As to whether this can be extended from beyond those before Christ listed above to those after Christ also to be included in this class of “believing after seeing” case, please consider Christ’s Mysterious Words in John 6:29, 35, 36, 40 [275] where Christ was only angry with the Jews for not believing Him even after seeing Him and His miracles and other works. The context of seeing the Risen Christ and then given a chance to believe is also evidenced in Apostle St. Thomas’ conversion too [276]. Interestingly, St. Irenaeus of Lyons has this possible quote below where some lost sheep (i.e. sheep of other fold possibly) seemed to be saved in the Spirit World context “after some judgment there first” as he describes below:

St. Irenaeus of Lyons writes that “believing after seeing in the Spirit World” (implied in his quote next for some) is not just for those given Second Chance of the past, but is even those saved now or even in the future who are required to fulfil the Charity Doctrine and right dealing with their neighbours laws(meaning easily the last 6 of the 10 Commandments relating to man) and to desire to see Christ (God) to be given at least a place in His Kingdom be it after some Spirit World judgment too first* which can mean Non Elect Salvationin the final new earth but not entering Heaven as part of the non-kings and non-priests who may also consist among the nations of those saved since they have “kings of the [new] earth ruling over them there” [277]but did not become His Bride from heaven [278] in that “Final Scene” [as I interpolate]:

“2. For it was not merely for those who believed on Him in the time of Tiberius Cæsar that Christ came, nor did the Father exercise His providence for the men only who are now alive, but for all men altogether, who from the beginning, according to their capacity, in their generation have both feared and loved God, and practised justice and piety towards their neighbours, and have earnestly desired to see Christ, and to hear His voice. Wherefore He shall, at His second coming, first rouse from their sleep all persons of this description, and shall raise them up, as well as the rest who shall be judged, and give them a place in His kingdom.” [279]

*St. Irenaeus writes using the same phrase “seeking the sheep which had perished” in the context of spirit world salvation attaching it to these phrases “descend to those things which are of the earth beneath”** (indicating spirit world [280]) and saved only after judgment there as he also writes this phrase “remaining part of the body — [namely, the body] of everyman who is found in life — when the time is fulfilled of that condemnation which existed by reason of disobedience, may arise,” whilst describing the salvation of such lost sheep below, compare:

In another section of writing, St. Irenaeus seems to mention those “saved” Israel sheep on earth (hence elect salvation) while comparing against the “lost sheep of Israel which has perished” [282] indicating that the “sheep of other fold” could be those not saved on earth itself (hence Non Elect Salvation).

“8. But as many as feared God, and were anxious about His law, these ran to Christ, and were all saved. For He said to His disciples: Go to the sheep of the house of Israel, Matthew 10:6 which have perished.”

**We know that St. Irenaeus’ usage of equivalent phrases for lower parts of the earth refers to Spirit World from his quote below which, when compared, we see that his quote above refers clearly to Spirit World Judgment Regions from which this possible Non Elect Salvation seems to be occurring clearly even now possibly:

“[if all these things occurred, I say], how must these men not be put to confusion, who allege that the lower parts refer to this world of ours, but that their inner man, leaving the body here, ascends into the super-celestial place? For as the Lord went away in the midst of the shadow of death, where the souls of the dead were.” [283]

Best is, we know that St. Irenaeus of Lyons writes that the Elect Sheep is saved during the times of the kingdom or 1000 years (Millennial) Reign in First Resurrection. The common definition that the “sheep of the other fold” [284]to mean “gentile sheep” as it is contrasted with the “sheep of the house of Israel” is found in later church fathers but surprisingly not in Chiliasm church fathers St. Justin of Rome and St. Irenaeus of Lyons whom I rely on for accuracy. If we look at the Chiliasm quotes of St. Irenaeus, we seem to see two badges of sheep saved but 1000 years apart [285] which can refer to elect salvation sheep (saved during the “times of the kingdom”) in the “first resurrection” [286]vs non-elect salvation sheep (saved during “after the times of the kingdom”) in the “general resurrection” [287]which is to happen at the “last trumpet” [288](since there are only two trumpets for two resurrections), hence the latter could be the sheep of the other fold.

Both St. Justin [289] and St. Irenaeus [290] called the “gentile sheep” as “spotted or coloured sheep” instead of “sheep of other fold” label. This is important because spotted/coloured speaks about a physical difference on the sheep’s body (like a race) while the Koine Greek word translated as “fold” is αὐλῆς [transliterated: aulēs] [291]which isreferring to something external namely the “house for the sheep or sheep pen” and not a physical mark on its body. This means that elect salvation sheepfold1 belongs to “house/fold in final new heavens” while in contrast the non-elect salvation sheepfold2 belongs to “house/fold in final new earth” which matches our previous possibility discussions perfectly.

Around this time, Clement of Alexandria calls the “sheep of other fold” [292]to refer to some which undergo afterlife judgments and are placed in a more inferior final place which Catholics use in support of purgatory. The most interesting quote regarding the “sheep of other fold” is by St. Irenaeus of Lyons [293]which is difficult to decipher because he seems to quote a point which the gnostic heretics are right namely

“they must acknowledge that the enjoyment of rest did not imply salvation”. [295]

And followingly, St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ equally mysterious quotes for some sheep being let go or saved only on Second Resurrection timeline’s Judgment Day (or after the times of the kingdom) since only then the damned wicked are judged simultaneously so can mean that these are possibly Non Elect Salvation sheep since they missed the “wedding” of the Lamb during the First Resurrection as he describes it in these example quotes:

“1. Inasmuch, then, as in both Testaments there is the same righteousness of God [displayed] when God takes vengeance, in the one case indeed typically, temporarily, and more moderately; but in the other, really, enduringly, and more rigidly: for the fire is eternal, and the wrath of God which shall be revealed from heaven from the face of our Lord … 2. For as, in the New Testament, that faith of men [to be placed] in God has been increased, receiving in addition [to what was already revealed] the Son of God, that man too might be a partaker of God; … For to whomsoever the Lord shall say, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, Matthew 25:41 these shall be damned for ever; and to whomsoever He shall say, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you for eternity, Matthew 25:34 these do receive the kingdom for ever, and make constant advance in it; since there is one and the same God the Father, and His Word, who has been always present with the human race, by means indeed of various dispensations, and has wrought out many things, and saved from the beginning those who are saved, (for these are they who love God, and follow the Word of God according to the class to which they belong,) and has judged those who are judged, that is, those who forget God, and are blasphemous, and transgressors of His word.

3. For the self-same heretics already mentioned by us have fallen away from themselves, by accusing the Lord, in whom they say that they believe. For those points to which they call attention with regard to the God who then awarded temporal punishments to the unbelieving, and smote the Egyptians, while He saved those that were obedient; these same [facts, I say,] shall nevertheless repeat themselves in the Lord, who judges for eternity those whom He does judge, and lets go free for eternity those whom He does let go free: … But who are they that are saved now, and receive life eternal? Is it not those who love God, and who believe His promises, and who in malice have become as little children? 1 Corinthians 14:20.” [296]

Notice this phrase “and lets go free for eternity those whom He does let go free:” by St. Irenaeus below which seems to fit more for this context (or case) “awarded temporal punishments to the unbelieving” implying possible Non Elect Salvation instead of being applied to those of faith (who are already His Bride for 1000 years by now in Chiliasm Timeline) and so being let go free sounds more lower than rewarded for faith, right? Compare:

Possible Non Elect Salvation quote here as they only seem to be “let go” on Great White Throne Judgment Day without receiving any inheritance meaning different Bible verses could be describing different judgment results where for example 1 Corinthians 3:15’s “saved by fire” case [297]could be mapped to this quote too since those receiving an inheritance could be 1 Corinthians 3:14’s case [298]which have reward clearly, right? Difficult indeed and so let God decide as we contemplate honestly.

“when God takes vengeance, in the one case indeed typically, temporarily, and more moderately … For those points to which they call attention with regard to the God who then awarded temporal punishments to the unbelieving … these same [facts, I say,] shall nevertheless repeat themselves in the Lord, who judges for eternity those whom He does judge, and lets go free for eternity those whom He does let go free:” [299]

If I may comment further, Iet’s map this verse to the three harvests of the gospel from “good ground” (meaning Christians) in the Parable of the Sower, namely the thirtyfold, sixtyfold and hundredfold reward levels [300]. We know that Matthew 13:8 refers to reward levels since other verses such as Matthew 19:29 correlates with it mentioning only the “hundredfold” reward level which is stated differently from “Eternal Life” by Christ Himself [301]. Wouldn’t these honoured Christians be mapped to the ones with reward case mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3:14 instead of the “saved by fire” type of 1 Corinthians 3:15 whose works are burned fully?

Also, doesn’t “suffer loss”, which is the phrase in 1 Corinthians 3:15 also mean “zero reward” but just “saved by fire” only? Since if the person for this case gets any reward, then he doesn’t seem to have suffered loss or burning and also then what’s the difference with 1 Corinthians 3:14’s reward case then? I mean even the lowest reward thirtyfold level seems to match 1 Corinthians 3:14’s “reward” case of being honoured rather than the “saved by fire” with “no reward” possibility of 1 Corinthians 3:15. If viewed like this, then 1 Corinthians 3:15’s “saved by fire” case could be Non Elect Salvation. Let’s remember that Christ Said that anyone who believes in Him on earth (considered faith level) which surely includes the good ground’s lowest thirtyfold reward level would not come into Judgment hence cannot be 1 Corinthians 3:15’s judged, burned by fire, suffered loss and only then “saved by fire” in comparison, right? (also, someone who is parabolically a “good ground” shouldn’t be burnt either like 1 Corinthians 3:15 and “suffer loss” too, right?), Verse:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.” [302]

Elect Salvation quote here since these receive inheritance of the kingdom before dying on earth itself?

“And again, who are they that have been saved and received the inheritance? Those, doubtless, who do believe God, and who have continued in His love; as did Caleb [the son] of Jephunneh and Joshua [the son] of Nun, Numbers 14:30 and innocent children, who have had no sense of evil. But who are they that are saved now, and receive life eternal? Is it not those who love God, and who believe His promises, and who in malice have become as little children?” [303]

Please notice this phrase “But who are they that are saved now, and receive life eternal?” which seems to imply Elect Salvation of Faith for those saved on earth now (especially the word “now”) which seems to stand in contrast toward those “let go” on Judgment Day which seems to be Non Elect Salvation in his quote earlier,

“they call attention with regard to the God who then awarded temporal punishments to the unbelieving … these same [facts, I say,] shall nevertheless repeat themselves in the Lord, who judges for eternity those whom He does judge, and lets go free for eternity those whom He does let go free”

in comparison, right? Seems difficult to interpret or interpolate and so let God decide.

I will end with this oldest known Chiliasm Church Father Prophecy quote outside the Bible by St. Papias who was bishop of Hierapolis (lived c. 60 AD – c. 163 AD) for us to ponder:

“As the presbyters say, then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; … But that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold; for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second class will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the city; and that on this account the Lord said, ‘In my Father’s house are many mansions’: John 14:2 … And this is the couch in which they shall recline who feast, being invited to the wedding. The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, say that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved” [304].

The closest Bible verse which matches this description reads,

“11Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name. 13“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” [305].

Please observe the following when combined with St. Papias’ quote above:

i) This salvation in heaven is only for the elect/church/Christians (Verse 13).

ii) Each Christian dwells from the heavenly Jerusalem onward into the heavens and never goes out (Verse 12). This can imply non-elect salvation for those with final abode on the final new earth since Christians do not go out anymore (from the heavens) to have a final abode anywhere on earth as it is possibly meant here.

iii) Each Christian has a crown (verse 11) [306] and so a non-king or non-priest regular person saved on the final earth who could not enter through the gates into the new Jerusalem city could be non-elect salvation [307]. If everyone from that final earth could enter heaven, no need for a gate there [308], right?

Also this is after the Book of Life results are revealed [309] and in final new earth and heavens [310] meaning it’s not the Millennial Reign on old earth and old heavens [311].

Also this is after the Book of Life results are revealed [312] and in final new earth and heavens [313] meaning it’s not the Millennial Reign on old earth and old heavens [314].

iv) Chiliasm Church Fathers clearly describe 1000 years in a perfect human body resurrection for Christians in old earth and heavens before the change into no more flesh and blood at this time as discussed in earlier sections. This means that Christians are having a heavenly body now (celestial) and so can enter heaven but some of those saved on earth have only an earthly body glory (terrestrial) [315]and so cannot enter these final heavens with it meaning no one can trick or bypass the gate secretly since even physically it’s impossible.

v) In light of this Chiliasm prophecy possibility, together with Tertullian, St. Victorinus, and St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ “last trumpet” quote in earlier section, we see that while Christians are changed from no more flesh and blood into angelic at the end of this 1000 years, a simultaneous second badge of righteous are just raised and are being saved hence non-elect salvation (if this interpretation is true). Those of first resurrection (elect) rise at the start of the 1000 years [316] while those of the second resurrection (non-elect) rise at the end of this 1000 years [317].

vi) This matches a literal reading of both Lord Jesus Christ’s Prophecy [318] for the time at the end and Prophet Daniel’s vision [319]where in those saved during the second resurrection (hence non-elect salvation) rise simultaneously with the wicked who are judged and/or condemned.

vii) Firstly, we know that there are two resurrections within His Millennial Reign. If each phrase is to have its own meaning, then in John 5 for those who are saved, Christ used two different parabolic phrases pertaining to the “last day” [320]which refers to this 1000 years (Millennial) reign [321] namely the “hour now is” which could refer to the “start” (hence “first resurrection” timeline) on this “last day” followed by the phrase “the hour is coming” referring to the “end” (hence “second resurrection” timeline) on this ‘same last day’.

viii) Notice that Christ may have Spoken two resurrections to life using these same phrases as follows: “Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.” [322] Observe that for those who will obtain a resurrection unto life during the “hour is coming” refers to the second resurrection’s non-elect salvation while those who will be raised to eternal life during the “hour now is” refers to the “first resurrection” (if this interpretation is true).

ix) Such a fine detail could be true since St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ quote for possible non-elect salvation during the second resurrection timeline also quotes that the wicked are raised “simultaneously” with a badge of “righteous” literally and during the “last trumpet” (end of 1000 years in Chiliasm timeline) and the “hour shall come” or “hour is coming” phrase from John 5 earlier is used without the phrase “hour now is” proving possible distinction as follows, “that His words concerning its [future] resurrection may also be believed; so also at the end, when the Lord utters His voice by the last trumpet, 1 Corinthians 15:52 the dead shall be raised, as He Himself declares: The hour shall come, in which all the dead which are in the tombs shall hear the voice of the Son of man, and shall come forth; those that have done good to the resurrection of life, and those that have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. John 5:28” [323].

x) Returning to prophet Daniel’s vision, we see that Christians who are already raised 1000 years earlier during the first resurrection by this time undergo that “change” from “human” to “no more flesh and blood” to obtain that celestial or heavenly body (parabolically, the shine as “heavens/firmament” or stars” part here) during this second resurrection timeline (as per Chiliasm Church Father quotes in earlier sections) which is described as follows: “Those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament, and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever” [324]. This also means that any resurrection verse in the Bible must first be questioned as to whether they are describing the first or second resurrection timeline which spans 1000 years.

xi) Even St. Irenaeus of Lyons writes that every Christian is a heavenly priest [325]and so a non-priest among those saved nations on that final earth could be non-elect salvation.

xii) As a sample, I will show another quote from St. Gregory Nazianzus which shows that he seems to view some “saved by fire” (non-elect salvation) while “others perish in that same unquenchable fire” (the damned) which reads as follows, “For I know a cleansing fire which Christ came to send upon the earth, and He Himself is analogically called a Fire. … I know also a fire which is not cleansing, but avenging; either that fire of Sodom which He pours down on all sinners, mingled with brimstone and storms, or that which is prepared for the Devil and his Angels or that which proceeds from the face of the Lord, and shall burn up his enemies round about; and one even more fearful still than these, the unquenchable fire which is ranged with the worm that dieth not but is eternal for the wicked. For all these belong to the destroying power; though some may prefer even in this place to take a more merciful view of this fire, worthily of Him That chastises” [326].

xiii) St. Gregory Nazianzus also has this strange quote where he writes, “I know of three classes among the saved; the slaves, the hired servants, the sons” [327]meaning since all those of elect salvation are “sons of God” [328] and all Christians are saved in the marriage of the Lamb during the first resurrection in Chiliasm timeline [329], the hired servants could be Israel’s non-elect salvation [330]while the slaves could be the gentiles’ non-elect salvation as the ‘surprised sheep’ of the nations [331] taking Matthew 25 to be viewed as a judgment summary for this entire 1000 years (Millennial) Reign of Christ.

Now, does error in eschatology make one a heretic?

St. Justin of Rome (St. Justin Martyr, c.100 AD – c. 160 AD) while writing that Chiliasm prophecy is true [332] but acknowledged that some who err in eschatology are still pious and godly Christians while others are downright heretics [333]. It is to be noted that in earlier sections I am giving an interpretation of these Chiliasm quotes which are available to support non-elect salvation possibility which is not final as this is open to debate and would be more meaningful if other scholars can take these same quotes by these same Chiliasm church fathers and prove the eschatology which they believe in. If other scholars or denominations of Christianity (even within Protestantism) cannot prove their eschatology by using these same quotes, doesn’t it sound dangerous especially in light of the verse which reads that “no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation”? [334]

If God has stated in New Testament scripture that prophecy is not of private interpretation, then wouldn’t God in His Omnipotence have preserved some parts of right interpretation in the writings of these earliest church fathers? Whether I am quoting and reading these Chiliasm church fathers rightly or not is open to debate, but the burden of proof does not just fall upon me but upon every denomination of Christianity likewise to use these same quotes and prove their eschatology with it.

Where these church fathers have differed, it proves that someone is wrong, and this is why I treat them as possibilities. This is the most honest way of research with evidence I see with eschatological prophecy. God will understand if we present possibilities based on evidence in Chiliasm church fathers’ writings like this because that’s what is available to us. I choose the Chiliasmchurch fathers especially since they are the earliest surviving writing in entire Christian history timeline whose prophecy and eschatological aspect have survived and where they differ, I usually take the earlier quotes in time and mostly see St. Justin of Rome (St. Justin Martyr) and St. Irenaeus of Lyons as most accurate.

The popular objection by some protestant scholars that these quotes have been tampered with by Roman Catholics and/or Orthodox is unproven too. The fact that the Catholic church is actually non-Chiliasm due to St. Augustine of Hippo who was influenced by Origen of Alexandria [335](the earliest big name they can quote) but yet the Catholic church preserved all these Chiliasm church father quotes as it seems to point that these quotes could be authentic. Taking the case of the Jews of the past, God used the same unbelieving Jews to preserve Old Testament scripture and so it’s no surprise if He can do the same with Chiliasm quotes with Catholics from a protestant point of view likewise, right?

10. Baptism by Fire

“And, Be kind and merciful, as your Father also is kind and merciful, and makes His sun to rise on sinners, and the righteous, and the wicked..” [337]

Maybe sinners are saved by fire and the ungodly (wicked) are unsaved while the righteous (Christians) are saved without judgment [338] (just a thought to match these 3 categories of men).

If I may comment further, Iet’s map this verse to the three harvests of the gospel from “good ground” (meaning Christians) in the Parable of the Sower, namely the thirtyfold, sixtyfold and hundredfold reward levels. Wouldn’t these honoured Christians be mapped to the ones with reward case mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3:14 [339]instead of the “saved by fire” type of 1 Corinthians 3:15 whose works are burned fully? I mean even the lowest reward thirtyfold level seems to match 1 Corinthians 3:14’s “reward” case of being honoured rather than the “saved by fire” with “no reward” possibility of 1 Corinthians 3:15. If viewed like this, then 1 Corinthians 3:15’s “saved by fire” case could be non-elect salvation.

In regard to the common objection that these cases refer to Christians only based on 1 Corinthians 3:11 [340], this can refer to those non-Christians who have done some commands of God in their lives as per the conscience given to every man rule in Romans 2:6 – 11 [341]. This is commonly referred to as a special case for those who never heard of the Gospel in Romans 2:14 – 16 [342] (the word “Law” used in same context here).

Can we say that those who were “excused” on judgment day based on this unlearnt case as being saved by works since they never believed in Christ nor heard of Him even or accuse that these are saved by works? Doesn’t it also show that Christ’s Perfect Blood and Atonement can be applied to such unlearnt ones in the Spirit World to be saved? I am writing like this to show why such Church Fathers may have taught differently using this same Verse because its interpretation can be difficult. As a sample, I will show another quote from St. Gregory Nazianzus [343]which shows that he seems to view some “saved by fire” (non-elect salvation for sinners who are chastised and cleansed) while “others perish in that same unquenchable fire” (the damned) which reads as follows regarding God’s Fire,

St. Gregory’s Possible Non Elect Salvation quote here:

“For I know a cleansing fire which Christ came to send upon the earth, and He Himself is analogically called a Fire. … For all these belong to the destroying power; though some may prefer even in this place to take a more merciful view of this fire, worthily of Him That chastises”.

Notice that St. Gregory speaks of two different types of Fire.

St. Gregory’s the Wicked being Damned quote here:

“I know also a fire which is not cleansing, but avenging; either that fire of Sodom which He pours down on all sinners, mingled with brimstone and storms, or that which is prepared for the Devil and his Angels or that which proceeds from the face of the Lord, and shall burn up his enemies round about; and one even more fearful still than these, the unquenchable fire which is ranged with the worm that dieth not but is eternal for the wicked. For all these belong to the destroying power;”

St. Gregory Nazianzus (c. 329 AD – c. 390 AD) writes,

“then here too I will provide thee with broad paths. Philosophize about the world or worlds; about matter; about soul; about natures endowed with reason, good or bad; about resurrection, about judgment, about reward, or the Sufferings of Christ. For in these subjects to hit the mark is not useless, and to miss it is not dangerous. But with God we shall have converse, in this life only in a small degree; but a little later, it may be, more perfectly, in the Same, our Lord Jesus Christ, to Whom be glory for ever. Amen.” [345]

This quote seems to allow variation of doctrine in the topic of “Judgment” where the major historical positions for the damned are eternal hell [346], annihilation [347] or Christ centered universalism [348]. So speculating on the topic of “judgment” will not save anyone nor condemn them but may make a difference in “rewards” according to St. Gregory here. Martin Luther has demonstrated that a thought followed by a majority no matter even for 1000 years and did full evangelism to fulfil the great commission during those time still can be wrong!

Recall that St. Gregory’s famous quote pointing to the context of 1 Corinthians 3:15’s “saved by fire” [349]case is not for Christians but novation heretics who are not following Christ’s way but their own way which is why I see it as a Non Elect Salvation “possibility” below. In order to not misquote St. Gregory’s meaning about what he meant about “judgment” context here, his other quote here seem to point to either universalism or more accurately, some type of Non Elect Salvation [350]possibility. St. Gregory writes,

“Let these men then if they will, follow our way, which is Christ’s way; but if they will not, let them go their own. Perhaps in it they will be baptized with Fire, in that last Baptism which is more painful and longer, which devours wood like grass, 1 Corinthians 3:12-19 and consumes the stubble of every evil.” [351]

The above is probably St. Gregory’s Non Elect Salvation quote here simply because he is quoting the context of 1 Corinthians 3’s part which includes this saved by fire context and he is mentioning that fire as last Baptism where these Novation heretics (who follow their own way and not Christ’s way) still get this chance to be baptized with Fire and saved by fire as this is intrinsically implied in the quoted Bible verses below:

“If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire” [352]

Let’s compare the quoting of Matthew 3:11 – 12’s context of Baptism by Fire in Bible verses above with our three principal Chiliasm Church Fathers next.

St. Justin of Rome also writes that this Last Baptism by Fire occurs during the Second Coming of Christ.

“And, accordingly, our Lord in His teaching proclaimed that this very thing would take place, saying that Elijah would also come. And we know that this shall take place when our Lord Jesus Christ shall come in glory from heaven; whose first manifestation the Spirit of God who was in Elijah preceded as herald in [the person of] John, a prophet among your nation; after whom no other prophet appeared among you. He cried, as he sat by the river Jordan: ‘I baptize you with water to repentance; but He that is stronger than I shall come, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: whose fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His floor, and will gather the wheat into the barn; but the chaff He will burn up with unquenchable fire.’ Matthew 3:11-12” [354]

This Last Baptism by Fire seems to occur at that time when compared to the Water baptism with Holy Ghost which happens now for those who repent on earth. I mean St. Justin’s quote here seems to point that “Christians are baptized with water and Holy Ghost” while the Baptism with Fire is not for “repented Christians on earth” but rather for those whom He will purge His Floor (“purge” indicating cleansing) during His Second Coming onward meaning the Millennial Reign (1000 years) in Chiliasm timeline unto Great White Throne Judgment Day.

The end result for this purging of His Floor is that He Will gather the wheat into the barn which could refer to those saved by Fire (hence possibly Non Elect Salvation since they come from the purging of Fire, i.e. saved after judgment only) as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3:15 in comparison while those “chaff He will burn up with unquenchable fire” without being “gathered up” at the end of this Millennial Reign (indicating these are the damned). Are these interpolations possible?

St. Irenaeus of Lyons describes the Second Coming of Christ as follows:

“1. … and do not recognise the advent of Christ, which He accomplished for the salvation of men, nor are willing to understand that all the prophets announced His two advents: the one, indeed, in which He became a man subject to stripes, and knowing what it is to bear infirmity, Isaiah 53:3 and sat upon the foal of an ass, Zechariah 9:9 and was a stone rejected by the builders, and was led as a sheep to the slaughter, Isaiah 53:7 and by the stretching forth of His hands destroyed Amalek; Exodus 17:11 while He gathered from the ends of the earth into His Father’s fold the children who were scattered abroad, Isaiah 11:12 and remembered His own dead ones who had formerly fallen asleep, and came down to them that He might deliver them: but the second in which He will come on the clouds, Daniel 7:13 bringing on the day which burns as a furnace, Malachi 4:1 and smiting the earth with the word of His mouth, Isaiah 11:4 and slaying the impious with the breath of His lips, and having a fan in His hands, and cleansing His floor, and gathering the wheat indeed into His barn, but burning the chaff with unquenchable fire. Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17” [355]

Notice that St. Irenaeus of Lyons quotes the context of Matthew 3:11 – 12’s Baptism by Fire to specifically refer to the future time after the Second Coming of Christ in his quote above. He says that this refers to Christ cleansing His floor, and gathering the wheat indeed into His barn which could refer to Non Elect Salvation since it occurs after cleansingin Fire Judgment for those wheat parabolically at that future Second Coming time. This possibility agrees with his other quote next for this part which seems to say even “generally” that any man can be wheat or chaff due to freewill of whether choosing to obey His Commands of “righteousness” or not:

“3. But why do we speak of Jerusalem, since, indeed, the fashion of the whole world must also pass away, when the time of its disappearance has come, in order that the fruit indeed may be gathered into the garner, but the chaff, left behind, may be consumed by fire? For the day of the Lord comes as a burning furnace, and all sinners shall be stubble, they who do evil things, and the day shall burn them up. Malachi 4:1 Now, who this Lord is that brings such a day about, John the Baptist points out, when he says of Christ, He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire, having His fan in His hand to cleanse His floor; and He will gather His fruit into the garner, but the chaff He will burn up with unquenchable fire. Matthew 3:11, etc. For He who makes the chaff and He who makes the wheat are not different persons, but one and the same, who judges them, that is, separates them. But the wheat and the chaff, being inanimate and irrational, have been made such by nature. But man, being endowed with reason, and in this respect like to God, having been made free in his will, and with power over himself, is himself the cause to himself, that sometimes he becomes wheat, and sometimes chaff. Wherefore also he shall be justly condemned, because, having been created a rational being, he lost the true rationality, and living irrationally, opposed the righteousness of God, giving himself over to every earthly spirit, and serving all lusts; as says the prophet, Man, being in honour, did not understand: he was assimilated to senseless beasts, and made like to them.” [356]

The most difficult question here is whether the wheat can refer to anyone not a Christian or only a Christian? For this part, let’s look at this last interesting quote by St. Irenaeus of Lyons where he blasts some heretical notions of some gnostic thought but also reveals some insight regarding Christian thought as follows:

“They also maintain that John indicated the same thing when he said, The fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge the floor, and will gather the wheat into His garner; but the chaff He will burn with fire unquenchable. Luke 3:17 By this declaration He set forth the faculty of Horos. For that fan they explain to be the cross (Stauros), which consumes, no doubt, all material objects, as fire does chaff, but it purifies all those who are saved, as a fan does wheat. Moreover, they affirm that the Apostle Paul himself made mention of this cross in the following words: The doctrine of the cross is foolishness to those who perish, but to us who are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18 And again: God forbid that I should glory in anything save in the cross of Christ, by whom the world is crucified to me, and I unto the world.” [357]

Possible Non Elect Salvation is mentioned here since notice that from St. Irenaeus own words from earlier parts regarding the context of this same verse (Matthew 3:11 – 12 or Luke 3:16 – 17), this is happening during the Second Coming of Christ timeline (not now, right?), where this Fire of Judgment that is revealed when He Returns causes the chaff to be unsaved but at the same time, it burns the wheat differently in that “it purifies all those who are saved, as a fan does wheat” as St. Irenaeus writes here.

I mean the general clause that this Fire purifies all who are meant to be saved seem to match St. Gregory Nazianzus’ quote prior and more importantly, the 1 Corinthians 3:15’s saved by fire case which could refer to someone who is possibly not even a “thirtyfold” (lowest Christian reward level for Gospel’s “good ground” context) since such ones could be 1 Corinthians 3:14’s those receiving “reward” case, right? In other words, if those purified and saved by this same Fire are called wheat which causes unquenchable fire to chaff at that future time when Christ Returns, then this could be Non Elect Salvation for some of them since such have “no reward” but are just saved by His Mercy, right? Difficult.

Around this time, St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD) whose position of whether he is Chiliasm or non-Chiliasm is unknown since no direct quote of his exists for such comparison, writes the context of Matthew 3:11 – 12 as referring to some sheep who are saved after judgment in cleansing Fire at this time:

“Sick, we truly stand in need of the Saviour; having wandered, of one to guide us; blind, of one to lead us to the light; thirsty, of the fountain of life, of which whosoever partakes, shall no longer thirst; John 4:13-14 dead, we need life; sheep, we need a shepherd; we who are children need a tutor, while universal humanity stands in need of Jesus; so that we may not continue intractable and sinners to the end, and thus fall into condemnation, but may be separated from the chaff, and stored up in the paternal garner. For the fan is in the Lord’s hand, by which the chaff due to the fire is separated from the wheat. Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17 You may learn, if you will, the crowning wisdom of the all-holy Shepherd and Instructor, of the omnipotent and paternal Word, when He figuratively represents Himself as the Shepherd of the sheep. And He is the Tutor of the children. He says therefore by Ezekiel, directing His discourse to the elders, and setting before them a salutary description of His wise solicitude: And that which is lame I will bind up, and that which is sick I will heal, and that which has wandered I will turn back; and I will feed them on my holy mountain. Such are the promises of the good Shepherd. Feed us, the children, as sheep. Yea, Master, fill us with righteousness, Your own pasture; yea, O Instructor, feed us on Your holy mountain the Church, which towers aloft, which is above the clouds, which touches heaven.” [358]

Notice that St. Clement of Alexandria writes in the above that the Elect Sheep is in heaven while the Fire of Judgment separates the chaff from the wheat:

“For the fan is in the Lord’s hand, by which the chaff due to the fire is separated from the wheat. Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17 … Feed us, the children, as sheep. Yea, Master, fill us with righteousness, Your own pasture; yea, O Instructor, feed us on Your holy mountain the Church, which towers aloft, which is above the clouds, which touches heaven.”

There’s more as his quote didn’t end there. He writes that the context of Christ’s Ransom for Many [359](not few) seems to include some type of Non Elect Salvation as “chastisements of sinners” for some:

“because toiling for us, and promising to give His life a ransom for many. Matthew 20:28 For him alone who does so He owns to be the good shepherd. Generous, therefore, is He who gives for us the greatest of all gifts, His own life; and beneficent exceedingly, and loving to men, in that, when He might have been Lord, He wished to be a brother man; and so good was He that He died for us. Further, His righteousness cried, If you come straight to me, I also will come straight to you but if you walk crooked, I also will walk crooked, says the Lord of hosts; meaning by the crooked ways the chastisements of sinners. … For it were a legitimate inference to say, that rebuke and censure are suitable to men, since they say that all men are bad; but God alone is wise, from whom comes wisdom, and alone perfect, and therefore alone worthy of praise. But I do not employ such language. I say, then, that praise or blame, or whatever resembles praise or blame, are medicines most essential of all to men. Some are ill to cure, and, like iron, are wrought into shape with fire, and hammer, and anvil, that is, with threatening, and reproof, and chastisement; while others, cleaving to faith itself, as self-taught, and as acting of their own free-will, grow by praise:—For virtue that is praised Grows like a tree.” [360]

Notice carefully how St. Clement of Alexandria calls “those saved by faith with virtue” (i.e. Elect Salvation) as others in comparison to “those saved with Fire and Chastisement or Medicines” as someone different so “possibly” Non Elect Salvation as his other quote below seems to describe further that this Judgment of Fire happens in the Spirit World context, called the Sheep of other fold for those of weak faith to be assigned greatest torments meaning could some “unbelievers” (not all) get lesser torment for those assigned the same portion of Judgment be thus saved likewise [361] as he seems to link to the principle found in Luke 12:46 – 48? (I infer):

“And other sheep there are also, says the Lord, which are not of this fold John 10:16 — deemed worthy of another fold and mansion, in proportion to their faith. … but though he quit the flesh, he must put off the passions, so as to be capable of reaching his own mansion. … he greatest torments, indeed, are assigned to the believer. For God’s righteousness is good, and His goodness is righteous. And though the punishments cease in the course of the completion of the expiation and purification of each one, yet those have very great and permanent grief who are found worthy of the other fold, on account of not being along with those that have been glorified through righteousness.” [362]

St. Clement of Alexandria calls the “sheep of other fold” to refer to some who undergo afterlife judgments which Catholics use in support of purgatory and these are placed in a more inferior final place. Notice also that the punishments and purifications described here are in Spirit World context as the phrase “he quit the flesh” means in the above. So, if non-elect salvation turns out to be true, then the “few” saved refers to Elect Salvation [363] who become His Bride [364]and enter heaven [365] while Christ’s Ransom for “many” [366]includes those of non-elect salvation too who get the final abode on the final new earth only [367].

Tertullian quotes Matthew 3:11 as follows:

“And so the baptism of repentance Acts 19:4 was dealt with as if it were a candidate for the remission and sanctification shortly about to follow in Christ: for in that John used to preach baptism for the remission of sins, Mark 1:4 the declaration was made with reference to future remission; if it be true, (as it is,) that repentance is antecedent, remission subsequent; and this is preparing the way. Luke 1:76 But he who prepares does not himself perfect, but procures for another to perfect. John himself professes that the celestial things are not his, but Christ’s, by saying, He who is from the earth speaks concerning the earth; He who comes from the realms above is above all; and again, by saying that he baptized in repentance only, but that One would shortly come who would baptize in the Spirit and fire; — of course because true and stable faith is baptized with water, unto salvation; pretended and weak faith is baptized with fire, unto judgment.” [368]

Summary

This is the Baptism of Fire’s principal verse:

Now, let’s look at the three Principal Chiliasm Church Father’s quotes regarding the Context of Prophecy for Matthew 3:11 – 12’s Judgment of Fire verse as follows:

St. Justin of Rome believes that “this Judgment of Fire” happens during the Second Coming of Christ.

“And we know that this shall take place when our Lord Jesus Christ shall come in glory from heaven; whose first manifestation the Spirit of God who was in Elijah preceded as herald in [the person of] John, a prophet among your nation; after whom no other prophet appeared among you. He cried, as he sat by the river Jordan: ‘I baptize you with water to repentance; but He that is stronger than I shall come, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: whose fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His floor, and will gather the wheat into the barn; but the chaff He will burn up with unquenchable fire.’ Matthew 3:11-12” [371]

“For the prophets have proclaimed two advents of His: the one, that which is already past, when He came as a dishonoured and suffering Man; but the second, when, according to prophecy, He shall come from heaven with glory, accompanied by His angelic host, when also He shall raise the bodies of all men who have lived, and shall clothe those of the worthy with immortality, and shall send those of the wicked, endued with eternal sensibility, into everlasting fire with the wicked devils. And that these things also have been foretold as yet to be, we will prove.” [372]

Note: We know that the “Wicked” and “Devils” are sent into the Lake of Fire at the end of the Millennium as the above seems to be a summary as St. Justin’s breakdown for this detail of 1000 years separation between the First Resurrection (only for Christians) and Second Resurrection (for the rest) is seen below (next). This can also imply that the context for Matthew 3:11 – 12 in St. Justin’s first quote earlier refers to Judgment of Fire (cleansing for some while damnation for others) in the Spirit World Context as opposed to Final Judgment’s Bodily Resurrection context which is at the end of this 1000 years meaning if anyone is saved during this period of Cleansing Fire (I interpolate based on other quotes later), then such ones could be Non Elect Salvation:

“But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare. … And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, ‘They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.’ Luke 20:35.” [373]

St. Justin’s quote below also affirms this timeline since it speaks of “Christians” being called as “gods” on Second Resurrection timeline since only then the judgment of all men likewise takes place and they’re mentioned differently being transformed into “His Bride” (or no more flesh and blood into something angelic or heavenly being One Flesh with Christ as per Chiliasm prophecy for this part from other Church Father’s quotes like Tertullian).

Tertullian clearly distinguishes that no Christian is baptized in Fire if his faith is real and only a person with pretended or weak faith gets baptized in Fire unto Judgment (which clearly links to his purgatorial quotes in hell shown next revealing Spirit World Judgment Context since a true and stable faith is already baptized in water unto salvation here on earth and so no further judgment is needed in the “Spirit World”, right?):

Notice that as opposed to St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ quote for “last trumpet” verses (1 Corinthians 15:52) or even John 5:28 – 29’s “hour is coming” timeline which could contain a Second badge of righteous to be raised during the Second resurrection as discussed in Chapter 9 in detail (compare with St. Irenaeus’ quotes at the end of this write up too for the Purification Fire context for Matthew 3:11 – 12 of which, they may need to endure first), Tertullian doesn’t face such a difficulty in his interpretations because he is the only Church Father who has this quote next describing that Christians themselves get raised at different times during the First Resurrection which spans 1000 years as follows:

“Of the heavenly kingdom this is the process. After its thousand years are over, within which period is completed the resurrection of the saints, who rise sooner or later according to their deserts there will ensue the destruction of the world and the conflagration of all things at the judgment: … when Abraham’s seed, after the primal promise of being like the sand of the sea for multitude, is destined likewise to an equality with the stars of heaven — are not these the indications both of an earthly and a heavenly dispensation?” [377]

My point is that Tertullian can just take John 5:28 – 29 and read the part where the wicked rise simultaneously with the righteous literally (see his quote a bit later below for this part*:) and say that these must be the worst Christians since they rise last according to the “interpretation” he gives above. However, this causes problems such as these ones miss the “Wedding” of the Lamb which ends exactly after this 1000 years and also get immediately changed into ‘no more flesh and blood’ as his own quote rings (see Chapter 8) or his direct quote below for those saved in Hades who also must undergo the change to angelic:

So if Tertullian is right in claiming that such righteous ones rising in John 5:28 – 29 includes also these just saved from Hades ones as well (as his other quotes here imply), these seem more to be “evidence” of Non Elect Salvation because apart from ‘missing’ out on the Wedding of the Lamb, don’t these completely unworthy Christians since they only rise at the end of this 1000 years meaning they have no merit nor part to inherit the earthly 1000 years First Resurrection Millennium delights must match at least the minimum thirtyfold Gospel “good ground” level if they’re “Elect”, right? I mean how can they be “good ground” if they missed the entire millennium and only rise simultaneously with the wicked but inherit heaven being changed at this time? Also doesn’t “good ground” (minimum “thirtyfold” level [379]) mean that they should not endure any type of Hades or Spirit World Judgment even [380]?

“28Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.” [381]

*Tertullian views Christ’s John 5:28 – 29 literally and does not quote it as how some Christians do such as say that the Resurrection to Life part and Resurrection to Judgment part are separated by 1000 years for this verse which can only be seen via allegory, compare:

“Then again, when He says, Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and shall come forth; they that have done good, to the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28-29 — none will after such words be able to interpret the dead that are in the graves as any other than the bodies of the flesh, because the graves themselves are nothing but the resting-place of corpses: … For it is not the resurrection that is directly denied to flesh and blood, but the kingdom of God, which is incidental to the resurrection (for there is a resurrection of judgment also); and there is even a confirmation of the general resurrection of the flesh, whenever a special one is excepted. Now, when it is clearly stated what the condition is to which the resurrection does not lead, it is understood what that is to which it does lead; and, therefore, while it is in consideration of men’s merits that a difference is made in their resurrection by their conduct in the flesh, and not by the substance thereof, it is evident even from this, that flesh and blood are excluded from the kingdom of God in respect of their sin, not of their substance; and although in respect of their natural condition they will rise again for the judgment, because they rise not for the kingdom. Again, I will say, Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; 1 Corinthians 15:50 and justly (does the apostle declare this of them, considered) alone and in themselves, in order to show that the Spirit is still needed (to qualify them) for the kingdom.” [382]

St. Gregory Nazianzus speaks of a Judgment Fire of God to have cleansing effect on some (causing them to be “saved”) while another different “Judgment Fire” of God to have an ‘eternal damnation’ effect on others.

St. Gregory’s Possible Non Elect Salvation quote here:

Notice that St. Gregory speaks of two different types of Fire.

St. Gregory’s the Wicked being Damned quote here:

Notice that he also acknowledges that some Christians even view the last fire to possibly have some cleansed through it where anyone cleansed from any Spirit World Judgment Fire like this is Non Elect Salvation possibility because he does not apply it to Christians but to heretics (who are considered same level or worse than non-Christians, right?) in his famous quote below toward Novations:

St. Irenaeus of Lyons mentions only two advents of Christ (i.e. no secret coming as pre-tribulation rapture believers assert) in his quote next and that Matthew 3:11 – 12’s context happens during the Second Coming of Christ where He “begins” to cleanse His Floor (so perhaps a “Judgment of Fire” in “Purification” context begins to eventually reveal the wheat?).

“1. … and do not recognise the advent of Christ, which He accomplished for the salvation of men, nor are willing to understand that all the prophets announced His two advents: the one, indeed, in which He became a man subject to stripes, and knowing what it is to bear infirmity, … and remembered His own dead ones who had formerly fallen asleep, and came down to them that He might deliver them: but the second in which He will come on the clouds, Daniel 7:13 bringing on the day which burns as a furnace, Malachi 4:1 and smiting the earth with the word of His mouth, Isaiah 11:4 and slaying the impious with the breath of His lips, and having a fan in His hands, and cleansing His floor, and gathering the wheat indeed into His barn, but burning the chaff with unquenchable fire. Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17” [385]

Christians are definitely wheat during “His Second Coming” and immediately participate in the First Resurrection after Christ destroys the Antichrist and ushers in the times of the kingdom (Sabbath or Millennium for 1000 years).

“And they shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. [386] … so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be. Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” [387]

“But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Matthew 8:11” [388]

Next, notice that St. Irenaeus of Lyons speaks of the “fashion of this world” passes away in the context of the current old earth and old heavens will eventually end in its current form after the times of the kingdom is accomplished first for the First Resurrection and speaks of its participants finally dwelling in the real heavenly city of God in the final new earth/heavens.

“Now this is what has been said by the apostle: For the fashion of this world passes away. 1 Corinthians 7:31 To the same purpose did the Lord also declare, Heaven and earth shall pass away. Matthew 24:35 When these things, therefore, pass away above the earth, John, the Lord’s disciple, says that the new Jerusalem above shall [then] descend, as a bride adorned for her husband; and that this is the tabernacle of God, in which God will dwell with men. Of this Jerusalem the former one is an image — that Jerusalem of the former earth in which the righteous are disciplined beforehand for incorruption and prepared for salvation. And of this tabernacle Moses received the pattern in the mount; Exodus 25:40 and nothing is capable of being allegorized, but all things are steadfast, and true, and substantial, having been made by God for righteous men’s enjoyment. For as it is God truly who raises up man, so also does man truly rise from the dead, and not allegorically, as I have shown repeatedly. And as he rises actually, so also shall he be actually disciplined beforehand for incorruption, and shall go forwards and flourish in the times of the kingdom, in order that he may be capable of receiving the glory of the Father. Then, when all things are made new, he shall truly dwell in the city of God. For it is said, He that sits on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And the Lord says, Write all this; for these words are faithful and true. And He said to me, They are done. Revelation 21:5-6 And this is the truth of the matter.” [389]

How does this quote affect our discussion? Notice that St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ quote next uses the same phrase fashion of this world passes away or equivalent to “include the context of Matthew 3:11 – 12’s Purification or Judgment Fire to imply the Millennium” timeline too.

Also, doesn’t St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ quote above seems to reveal that this Matthew 3:11 – 12’s Judgment of Fire context to cleanse His floor lasts this entire 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ and so, an interesting interpolation is that some of the fruit that is gathered seems to be after this Judgment of Fire’s Millenium or 1000 years timeline meaning it could be Non Elect Salvation for those saved by fire (perhaps these are the ones mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3:15 too) which seems to be different from those saved in the First Resurrection who are never hurt by the Second Death [391] and who in turn, could be calling these Non Elect Salvation ones as the thirsty in the “Final Scene” (Revelation 21:6, Revelation 22:17) to drink of the Water of Life since the “opposite” here regarding Fire could imply Thirst even “spiritually”, right? Notice this is my personal possible interpolation in light of St. Irenaeus’ quote below which also reveals that due to free will a man can be wheat or chaff and so maybe some repent, believe after seeing and are “saved by fire” then during this Last Day?

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.” [393]

“29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” 35And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day” [394]

“If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire” [395]

“And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely” [396].

My further interpolation: Notice that this Last Day refers to this 1000 years Millennium First Resurrection timeline in Chiliasm context (e.g. see St. Irenaeus’ quotes in page 33, 83 earlier or in Chapter 15.2 also) and so the believing after seeing case of John 6:29, 35, 36, 40 may apply (if God Wills) causing them to be raised at the last trumpet* as part of those who have done good (hence wheat) after being Judged in Fire (see St. Irenaeus’ of Lyons quotes for this in page earlier) for their wrong works first as these quotes earlier describe especially the conclusion for purification of wheat part as being “saved by fire” in the end as St. Irenaeus wrote, “as fire does chaff, but it purifies all those who are saved, as a fan does wheat” earlier here.

Also notice that in the Final Scene, this same free will quote “Whoever desires” applies to “him who thirsts” and “the bride” or (Church/Christians/Elect Salvation) is mentioned differently and is even calling such ones to be saved here in Revelation 22:17 above. So the Chiliasm Model is consistent for Non Elect Salvation possibility but whether this is true or not, I dare not say lest it be wrong and I add to Scripture or handle Scripture falsely and so I just leave it as it is honestly presenting it only. Also, do compare with 1 Corinthians 3:15’s “saved by fire” argument given at the end of Chapter 9 right after St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ mysterious let go phrases for Great White Throne Judgment Day context.

My interpolations above are not entirely unique as the big picture part is similar to this quote below which has been attributed to St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD) as he describes some Non Elect Salvation (i.e. anyone saved from the Fire of Purification during the Millennium mirroring St. Justin and St. Irenaeus’ timeline for Matthew 3:11 – 12 too) as follows:

“Our Savior has appointed two kinds of resurrection in the Apocalypse. ‘Blessed is he that hath part in the first resurrection,’ for such come to grace without the judgment. As for those who do not come to the first, but are reserved unto the second resurrection, these shall be disciplined until their appointed times, between the first and the second resurrection.” [397]

*For me, I think the earliest Church Fathers quoted have a higher chance of accuracy for this prophecy part since God Said prophecy is not of private interpretation.

“1. Let our opponents — that is, they who speak against their own salvation— inform us [as to this point] … This was symbolic of that man who had been bound in sins. And therefore the Lord said, Loose him, and let him depart. As, therefore, those who were healed were made whole in those members which had in times past been afflicted; and the dead rose in the identical bodies, their limbs and bodies receiving health, and that life which was granted by the Lord, who prefigures eternal things by temporal, and shows that it is He who is Himself able to extend both healing and life to His handiwork, that His words concerning its [future] resurrection may also be believed; so also at the end, when the Lord utters His voice by the last trumpet, 1 Corinthians 15:52 the dead shall be raised, as He Himself declares: The hour shall come, in which all the dead which are in the tombs shall hear the voice of the Son of man, and shall come forth; those that have done good to the resurrection of life, and those that have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. John 5:28” [398]

Notice that the only Bible verse containing this exact phrase “last trumpet” is 1 Corinthians 15:52. Now, if you compare these “last trumpet” quotes, which according to St. Victorinus of Pettau happens at the “end of 1000 years Millennial Reign” (see Chapter 15 for a thorough analysis for this part) where if combined with St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ quote where he seems to imply a second badge of righteous saved in “identical human bodies” (so earthly/terrestrial resurrection glory [399]) meaning non-elect salvation even toward his “enemies/opponents” context above which could possibly be the surprised sheep of the nations who seem to not know the Lord but the Lord knows them [400]based on their Charity Doctrine good acts toward “His Brethren” (Christians) [401].

Please remember that under the Chiliasm Prophecy Timeline Christians are already saved for 1000 years participating in the first resurrection and now on Judgment Day, when the rest of the nations are judged, Christians are turned into no more flesh and blood being heavenly and so it seems hard to imagine these newly saved “surprised sheep” of the nations to be Christians because these are just saved now during this end of 1000 years!

In conclusion, we can boldly say that, in light of the evidence of these quotes by Chiliasm Church Fathers and some key almost contemporaries, the “Baptism by Fire” is applied to those whom the Lord will save after some type of Spirit World Judgment of Fire first be it in Hades now before the end of the 1000 years Millennium (e.g. Tertullian) or that it only starts when He Returns during His Second Coming but also lasts till the end of the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ (e.g. St. Justin of Rome, St. Irenaeus of Lyons, St. Ambrose of Milan) or whose timing part is not clearly specified as to when it occurs (e.g. St. Gregory Nazianzus, St. Clement of Alexandria).

I mean if for example, we say that St. Justin of Rome’s quote is incomplete since it doesn’t mention the “saved by fire” part when quoting this same verse Matthew 3:11 – 12, we have to conclude that he has taught either the same as St. Irenaeus of Lyons or Tertullian or St. Gregory Nazianzus or even as St. Clement of Alexandria or even St. Ambrose of Milan since these are the major ones in their timeline and if not, it also shows that such a doctrine is not unified across all Christianity even at that time due to some significant differences in quotes for these parts which can span the Salvation by Fire case to be applied from fallen Christians to possibly even Non Christians hence Non Elect Salvation (depending on which of the earlier quotes we are referring to).

Here’s an Old Testament Verse describing the Millennial Reign (i.e. during the 1000 years, in that day) which describes a prison existing where at the end of it (i.e. after many days), they are visited (literal word) which can mean inspected to see if they can be released or not possibly which can refer to Non Elect Salvation too after such Baptism by Fire described earlier.

“20The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. 21And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 22And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited. 23Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.” [402]

We know this is describing the Millennial Reign timeline since this happens when the LORD has returned and literally punishes the kings of the earth (verse 21) and also verse 23 is a classical Chiliasm prophecy verse for this First Resurrection reigning on the old renewed earth context (verse 20 also) with earthly Jerusalem as the centre and in Mount Zion (old Heaven). This cleansing fire existing in the Millennium also affects those who are alive at that time (but may not be limited to it as earlier quoted verses show that it seems to affect all mankind prior). Notice that some (two-thirds of all those literally alive in that land) seem to perish in this fire (as the LORD cleans the earth):

“8And it shall come to pass in all the land,” Says the Lord, “That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it:” [403]

While others (one-third of all those literally alive in that land) seem to be cleansed and saved in this same fire:

“9I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, ‘This is My people’; And each one will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’ ” [404]

11. Other Church Fathers or Quotes for Non Elect Salvation

Table of Contents

Introduction ……………….…………………………………………………………….……… 208

1. Book of 1 Enoch …………………………………………………………………… 209

2. Shepherd of Hermas ……………………………………………………………… 210

3. St. Ambrose (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD), archbishop of Milan ……………… 215

4. St. Augustine (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD), bishop of Hippo. …………….…… 217

5. St. Jerome of the Vulgate (c. 343 AD – 420 AD) …………………….……… 220

6. St. Gregory the Great (c. 540 AD – c. 604 AD), bishop of Rome (Pope) .. 226

7. St. Athanasius (c. 297 AD – c. 373 AD), bishop of Alexandria …..……… 228

8. St. John Chrysostom (c. 347 AD – c. 407 AD),
archbishop of Constantinople …………………………………………..……… 231

9. St. Basil the Great (c. 329 AD – c. 379 AD), bishop of Caesarea …….… 232

10. St. Hilary of Poitiers (c. 315 AD – c. 368 AD),
the Athanasius of the West ………………………………..…………….……… 233

11. St. Cyril (c. 376 AD – c. 444 AD), archbishop of Alexandria …………….. 235

12. St. Cyril (c. 315 AD – c. 386 AD), archbishop of Jerusalem .….….……… 239

13. St. John of Damascus (c. 675 AD – c. 749 AD), monk and priest ………. 244

14. St. Bede the Venerable (c. 673 AD – c. 735 AD), monk and scholar …… 245

15. St. Maximus the Confessor (c. 580 AD – c. 662 AD), monk and scholar 250

16. Lactantius (c. 250 AD – c. 325 AD),

scholar and advisor to Roman Emperor Constantine I …………….……… 251

17. Ambrosiaster (c. 366 AD – c. 384 AD), roman clergy …………..….……… 259

18. Book of Esdras by Prophet Ezra ……………………………………….….…… 266

19. Apocalypse of Elijah (Coptic Christian preservation) …………….……….. 270

20. Apocalypse of Ezra (Armenian Christian preservation) …………….…….. 273

21. Apocalypse of Abraham .….………………………………..…………….……… 275

22. Sibyline Oracles Book 2 (Christian revision) …………..…………….……… 277

23. Epistle of Apostles (Epistula Apostolorum) …………….…………….…….… 280

24. Apocalypse of Peter ………………………………………….…………….……… 282

25. Martin Luther (10 November 1483 – 18 February 1546),
Protestant Reformer ……………………………………………………….……… 286

26. John Wesley (28 June 1703 – 2 March 1791),
Protestant Reformer ……………………………………………………….……… 287

27. Sadhu Sundar Singh (3 September 1889 – 1929),

Christian missionary ………………………………………..…………….……… 291

28. Watchman Nee (November 4, 1903 – May 30, 1972),
Chinese Church leader …………………………………………………………… 296

29. Reverend Billy Graham (November 7, 1918 – February 21, 2018),
Evangelist …………….……………………………………………………………… 300

Summary and thoughts regarding Non Elect Salvation possibility ………………… 304

Note: I did a separate table of contents for this chapter so that it’s easier to know which writings are quoted and which page to find them for easy reference.

Any Church Father quotes regarding someone saved in the Spirit World be it in Hades or Lake of Fire could be candidates for Non Elect Salvation possibility since we maintain the classical Protestant position that Elect Salvation does not undergo any Spirit World Judgment at all based on Bible verses like John 5:24 and Revelation 2:11.

Some (if not all) of the fallen Christians and fake Christians whom the Lord denies together with non-Christians who end up saved in the Spirit World after Judgment first could be the recipients of this Non Elect Salvation if my interpolations in light of these Church Fathers quotes presented next is true.

i) Elect Salvation does not undergo any Hades Judgment:

ii) Elect Salvation does not undergo any Lake of Fire Judgment:

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” [406]

“Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.” [407] [408]

Book of 1 Enoch

In the Book of 1 Enoch, (which is considered canonical by some Christians such as the isolated Ethiopian Orthodox Church [409]), chapter 50 could be describing this Chiliasm Prophecy “change” happening to the “elect” (Christians, Verse 1) from “human” to “no more flesh and blood” to some type of heavenly shining body with “light of days”, “glory” and “honour” on “Judgment Day” when sinners are judged (Verse 2, so Second Resurrection timeline implied intrinsically) which seems to be shown alongside Non Elect Salvation possibility toward “some” sinners who repent via “believing after seeing” and it cannot be elect salvation since it is called as “no honour” (Verse 3) while those who do not repent “perish” thereafter eternally with no more hope in Hell as God stops His Mercy henceforth (Verses 4 & 5).

“1 And in those days a change shall take place for the holy and elect,

And the light of days shall abide upon them,

2 On the day of affliction on which evil shall have been treasured up against the sinners.

And the righteous shall be victorious in the name of the Lord of Spirits:

And He will cause the others to witness (this)

That they may repent

And forgo the works of their hands.

3 They shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits,

Yet through His name shall they be saved,

And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them, For His compassion is great.

4 And He is righteous also in His judgement,

And in the presence of His glory unrighteousness also shall not maintain itself: At His judgment the unrepentant shall perish before Him.

5And from henceforth I will have no mercy on them, saith the Lord of Spirits.” [410]

Shepherd of Hermas

Tertullian himself had trouble with the Non Elect Salvationquotes of the Shepherd of Hermas (which proves this part is preserved authentically according to even Tertullian himself who is disagreeing or having trouble with its meaning) but yet please observe carefully Tertullian’s wise and scholarly reply (no wonder Tertullian is the Father of Latin Christianity and Founder of Western Theological Scholarship) since he writes as follows, [411]

“But I would yield my ground to you, if the scripture of the Shepherd, which is the only one which favours adulterers, had deserved to find a place in the Divine canon; if it had not been habitually judged by every council of Churches (even of your own) among apocryphal and false (writings); … I, however, imbibe the Scriptures of that Shepherd who cannot be broken.” [412]

Basically, Tertullian in his discussion here (with Bishop of Rome, Pope St. Callixtus I at that time) is saying he has problem because the Shepherd of Hermas since it gives some type of Non Elect Salvation to “adulterers” (implied) and that’s a reason for his hesitance that it has been included in the Divine Canon (e.g. Muratorian/Roman Canon which are first oldest known Bible Canon, etc.) but yet he says that he will “imbibe” (absorb) it since it is “Scripture which cannot be broken”.

Similarly, I am doing academic reporting and commenting honestly in this book based on evidence like this regardless if I agree to the Shepherd of Hermas or not like how Tertullian did and that’s exactly the methodology I follow decided to follow here. There is only one part of the Shepherd of Hermas which has this Non Elect Salvation possibility quotes which I will present soon.

Firstly, the Shepherd of Hermas (The Pastor) writing has been called as “Scripture” by some early church fathers including Chiliasm church fathers such as St. Irenaeus of Lyons and even Tertullian and was also in the “first known Bibles” of Christianity such as the Roman Canon/Muratorian Canon in the West and Codex Sinaiticus [413](4th century) in the East.

A greater witness is St. Irenaeus of Lyons who called the Shepherd of Hermas as Scripture when he quoted it as follows:

“2. Truly, then, the Scripture declared, which says, First of all believe that there is one God, who has established all things, and completed them, and having caused that from what had no being, all things should come into existence: He who contains all things, and is Himself contained by no one.” [414]

Compare this against the preserved Shepherd of Hermas quote to see the match [415].

The Roman Canon (“Muratorian Canon” c. 170 AD) which is the oldest known canonical list of New Testament Scripture whose surviving fragment lists the Shepherd of Hermas as Scripture and says,

“But Hermas wrote The Shepherd very recently, in our times, in the city of Rome, while bishop Pius, his brother, was occupying the chair of the church of the city of Rome. And therefore, it ought indeed to be read; but it cannot be read publicly to the people in church either among the Prophets, whose number is complete, or among the Apostles, for it is after their time.” [416].

St. Athanasius the Great did not classify Shepherd of Hermas as Scripture in his famous letter which lists all 27 New Testament books but yet he approved it for usage. Few have noticed that in this same letter, St. Athanasius places the “Shepherd of Hermas” (called the Shepherd or Pastor) in the same level as “Esther” where today, “Esther” is considered one of the 66 books in the protestant Bible. This means “Shepherd of Hermas” too has such a potential though we cannot say for sure hence it remains a possibility only [417]. Interestingly, the Shepherd of Hermas has never been condemned by any church council and earliest Bible canons listed it as Scripture. It just went out of use and so it remains a mystery as such.

The Shepherd of Hermas calls the elect salvation as the salvation in the “Tower [of Repentance]” parabolically as representing the “Church”.

“Many indeed shall hear, and hearing, some shall be glad, and some shall weep. But even these, if they hear and repent, shall also rejoice. Hear, then, the parables of the tower; … The tower which you see building is myself, the Church, who have appeared to you now and on the former occasion. Ask, then, whatever you like in regard to the tower, and I will reveal it to you, that you may rejoice with the saints.” [418]

This same “Elect Tower” concept is quoted by Chiliasm church father St. Irenaeus of Lyons too.

“the beautiful elect tower being also raised everywhere. For the illustrious Church is [now] everywhere, and everywhere is the winepress dug: because those who do receive the Spirit are everywhere.” [419]

However, during this same vision, the Shepherd of Hermas reveals further that there is a non-elect salvation possibility outside the “Elect Tower” for “all the rejected stones” where “stones” refer to “people” parabolically throughout these visions including those who have “heard the Gospel and wished to be baptized” but remain “unbaptized” and regressed into their “wicked sins”. This is the part I think Tertullian speaks of earlier:

“Do you wish to know who are the others which fell near the waters, but could not be rolled into them? These are they who have heard the word and wish to be baptized in the name of the Lord; but when the chastity demanded by the truth comes into their recollection, they draw back, and again walk after their own wicked desires. She finished her exposition of the tower. But I, shameless as I yet was, asked her, Is repentance possible for all those stones which have been cast away and did not fit into the building of the tower, and will they yet have a place in this tower? Repentance, said she, is yet possible, but in this tower, they cannot find a suitable place. But in another and much inferior place they will be laid, and that, too, only when they have been tortured and completed the days of their sins. And on this account will they be transferred, because they have partaken of the righteous Word. And then only will they be removed from their punishments when the thought of repenting of the evil deeds which they have done has come into their hearts. But if it does not come into their hearts, they will not be saved on account of the hardness of their heart.” [420]

It is to be noted that this Non Elect Salvation in another much more inferior place is only attainable if they repent in fire of punishment first and have partaken of the righteous word (possibly Christ’s Commands during some period of their lives which I personally think is the holiness and charity doctrine commands).

We can match the “elect tower salvation” as referring to the “final new heavens” abode while the Non Elect Salvation outside the tower salvation to the “final new earth” abode in our previous discussions. Also, notice that if the Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory is true, then these must be placed back “into the tower” after purgatory as that’s how they teach it but it is not the case here as the salvation is not in the tower (church) after this anymore implying non-elect salvation possibility only. Notice that these are not said to repent on earth “despite having heard of the Gospel since they walk back according to their evil desires” meaning that this is not the unlearnt case or equivalent either.

St. Ambrose (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD), archbishop of Milan.

Elect Salvation here is those of “First Resurrection” who come to grace without the judgment while Non Elect Salvation here is those of “Second Resurrection” who are disciplined first before being saved later.

Elect Salvation here is those who believe on earth itself without seeing (which is the definition of faith [422]) as he calls that now in quote next while Non Elect Salvation here is those who believe after seeing sometime later in the “Spirit World” Judgments (implied against “now”):

“182. Let us then shortly sum up our conclusion on the whole matter. A unity of power puts aside all idea of a degrading subjection. His giving up of power, and His victory as conqueror won over death, have not lessened His power. Obedience works out subjection. Christ has taken obedience upon Himself, obedience even to taking on Him our flesh, the cross even to gaining our salvation. Thus where the work lies, there too is the Author of the work. When therefore, all things have become subject to Christ, through Christ’s obedience, so that all bend their knees in His name, then He Himself will be all in all. For now, since all do not believe, all do not seem to be in subjection. But when all have believed and done the will of God, then Christ will be all and in all. And when Christ is all and in all, then will God be all and in all; for the Father abides ever in the Son. How, then, is He shown to be weak, Who redeemed the weak? 183. And lest you should by chance attribute to the weakness of the Son, that it is written, that God has put all things in subjection under Him; learn that He has Himself brought all things into subjection to Himself, for it is written: Our conversation is in heaven, from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus, Who shall change our vile body that it may be fashioned like His glorious body according to the working, whereby He is able to subdue all things unto Himself. Philippians 3:20-21 You have learned, therefore, that He can subdue all things unto Himself according to the working of His Godhead” [423]

St. Augustine (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD), bishop of Hippo.

St. Augustine initially believed in Chiliasm and then became non-Chiliast. In his quote next, he implies that those of Prosperity Gospel type (i.e. those who love the goods of this world) have to go through purgatory before being saved unless they have done sufficient Charity Doctrine. My interpolation is that anyone saved through purgatory is part of Non Elect Salvation possibility.

“And it is not impossible that something of the same kind may take place even after this life. It is a matter that may be inquired into, and either ascertained or left doubtful, whether some believers shall pass through a kind of purgatorial fire, and in proportion as they have loved with more or less devotion the goods that perish, be less or more quickly delivered from it. This cannot, however, be the case of any of those of whom it is said, that they shall not inherit the kingdom of God, unless after suitable repentance their sins be forgiven them. When I say suitable, I mean that they are not to be unfruitful in almsgiving; for Holy Scripture lays so much stress on this virtue, that our Lord tells us beforehand, that He will ascribe no merit to those on His right hand but that they abound in it, and no defect to those on His left hand but their want of it, when He shall say to the former, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom, and to the latter, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire. We must beware, however, lest any one should suppose that gross sins, such as are committed by those who shall not inherit the kingdom of God, may be daily perpetrated, and daily atoned for by almsgiving. The life must be changed for the better; and almsgiving must be used to propitiate God for past sins, not to purchase impunity for the commission of such sins in the future. For He has given no man license to sin, although in His mercy He may blot out sins that are already committed, if we do not neglect to make proper satisfaction.” [424]

Non Elect Salvation could be those who suffer temporal punishments in the Spirit World while Elect Salvation refers to those who do not come into such judgments.

“But temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment; for to some, as we have already said, what is not remitted in this world is remitted in the next, that is, they are not punished with the eternal punishment of the world to come.” [425]

St. Augustine does not call even universalism type of Christians as heretics and nor does he say that they deny Holy Scripture. I believe in either Eternal Hell or Annihilation for the Wicked, i.e. am open to both possibilities (different topic). The new difference is, Non Elect Salvation could be sinners who are not Elect Salvation and neither are they the Wicked.

“It is in vain, then, that some, indeed very many, make moan over the eternal punishment, and perpetual, unintermitted torments of the lost, and say they do not believe it shall be so; not, indeed, that they directly oppose themselves to Holy Scripture, but, at the suggestion of their own feelings, they soften down everything that seems hard, and give a milder turn to statements which they think are rather designed to terrify than to be received as literally true. … But let them suppose, if the thought gives them pleasure, that the pains of the damned are, at certain intervals, in some degree assuaged. For even in this case the wrath of God, that is, their condemnation (for it is this, and not any disturbed feeling in the mind of God that is called His wrath), abides upon them; that is, His wrath, though it still remains, does not shut up His tender mercies; though His tender mercies are exhibited, not in putting an end to their eternal punishment, but in mitigating, or in granting them a respite from, their torments; for the psalm does not say, to put an end to His anger, or, when His anger is passed by, but in His anger. Now, if this anger stood alone, or if it existed in the smallest conceivable degree, yet to be lost out of the kingdom of God, to be an exile from the city of God, to be alienated from the life of God, to have no share in that great goodness which God has laid up for them that fear Him, and has wrought out for them that trust in Him, would be a punishment so great, that, supposing it to be eternal, no torments that we know of, continued through as many ages as man’s imagination can conceive, could be compared with it.” [426]

The important thing is that even St. Augustine of Hippo who is considered as having a high level of spiritual anointing by many Christians (including Catholic, Orthodox and Protestants alike) does not see even universalism believing type of Christians as possessed by the devil or unsaved while our Non Elect Salvation position is much better than universalism (from St. Augustine’s view, implied) and it’s only a possibility and not doctrine, hence risking no one’s faith in such discussions.

St. Jerome of the Vulgate (c. 343 AD – 420 AD).

St. Jerome initially believed in Christ centred universalism but after the time when this letter was written (c. 394 AD), he began to believe in eternal hell only for the unsaved. However, it is interesting to note that he is quoting St. Hilary of Poitiers (c. 310 AD – c. 368 AD who is already dead for at about 30 years by now) as a Christian universalist which is important since it is well known that God used St. Hilary to being back the Doctrine of Trinity in “Western Christianity” and so St. Hilary is sometimes honoured with the title the Athanasius of the West. So if God can use a person who believed in Universalism for such important doctrinal correction in another topic, no Churches should discriminate us either for considering the weaker Non Elect Salvation as a possibility only (not doctrine). Notice also how St. Jerome quotes St. Hilary’s defence of Trinity doctrine for some parts below which was made on Universalism grounds as well.

“5. Your third and last question relates to the passage in the same epistle where the apostle in discussing the resurrection … 28 I am surprised that you have resolved to question me about this passage when that reverend man, Hilary, bishop of Poictiers, has occupied the eleventh book of his treatise against the Arians with a full examination and explanation of it. Yet I may at least say a few words. … and I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. John 12:32 Christ then is subject to the Father in the faithful; for all believers, nay the whole human race, are accounted members of His body. But in unbelievers, that is in Jews, heathens, and heretics, He is said to be not subject; for these members of His body are not subject to the faith. But in the end of the world when all His members shall see Christ, that is their own body, reigning, they also shall be made subject to Christ, that is to their own body, that the whole of Christ’s body may be subject unto God and the Father, and that God may be all in all. He does not say that the Father may be all in all but that God may be, a title which properly belongs to the Trinity and may be referred not only to the Father but also to the Son and to the Holy Ghost. His meaning therefore is that humanity may be subject to the Godhead. By humanity we here intend not that gentleness and kindness which the Greeks call philanthropy but the whole human race. Moreover when he says that God may be all in all, it is to be taken in this sense.” [427]

St. Jerome of the Vulgate was used by God to do the “Latin Vulgate” translation of the Bible which was the only one used to convert people into salvation in the Western World for at least1000 years! (i.e. between c. 500 AD to c. 1500 AD). Rival Bible translations only appeared after the Protestant Reformation. Even such an important influencer in Christianity as a whole may have believed in Non Elect Salvation in his quote below which refers clearly to non-Christians context since he is quoting Christ’s Parable regarding where the “Gospel Seed was sowed not” (perhaps this refers to the unlearnt case and also where the ground did not receive it):

“Also, by this which this servant dared to say, Thou, reapest where thou sowedst not, we understand that the Lord accepts the good life of the Gentiles and of the Philosophers.” [428]

St. Jerome of the Vulgate’s Non Elect Salvation quote toward non-Christians is clearest in his Commentary on Prophet Amos below because he applies the context of 1 Corinthians 3:15’s Baptism by Fire with judgment first which is followed by being Saved by Fire case to apply as an extreme medicine, [to the] ten tribes, and heretics, and all sinners as follows:

“When he did these things for the healer, they did not even return to him, says the Lord. I overthrew you as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and you have become like a furnace taken from the fire, and you have not returned to me, says the Lord. 70; You have been overthrown as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and you have become like a furnace taken out of the fire, and you have not even come to me like this, says the Lord. it is an extreme medicine, and ten tribes, and heretics, and all sinners, as after he sent death in the ways of Egypt, and smote their young men with the sword, the horses which he had consumed, and caused the rottenness of the camp to come up into their nostrils, and they did not even so return to him , overthrow them as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah; and when they have been overthrown, because of the likeness of the crimes of Sodom and Gomorrah, the worst in which the divine fire burned up the edifices, they themselves will be freed as if caught in a burning furnace. and how the lot, having reached Sodom, he was buried, losing his substance and part of his body, which we understand to be his wife, so let all these men of Sodom, losing their riches, escape naked, according to what we read in the apostle: if his work remains that which he has built up, he will receive a reward; but if his work burns, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, even so as though by fire. He therefore who is saved by fire is snatched away as if by a burning torch. and to such men as the Salvator [Saviour] spoke in the Gospel arguing: if you were Abraham’s children, you would do Abraham’s works. John the Baptist says: descendants of the Jews, who has shown you to flee from the wrath to come? therefore bear fruit worthy of repentance, and do not be unwilling to say that we have Abraham as our father within. for I say unto you, since God can raise up Abraham’s children from these stones? therefore both Israel and all the heretics because they had the works of Sodom and Gomorrah, they are overthrown like Sodom and Gomorrah, that they may be delivered from the fire as though they had been snatched away from the fire. and this is what we read in the prophet: Sodom shall be restored to its former state, so that he who is a Sodomite by his own will, after the works of Sodom have burned in him, shall be restored to his former state. therefore I will do these things to you, Israel; But after I have done these things for you, prepare to meet your God, O Israel; for behold, he forming the mountains, and creating the wind, and declaring his speech to man, making the morning mist, and walking on the heights of the earth, the Lord of Hosts is his name. 70: therefore I will do this to you, O Israel; indeed, because I will do this to you, to prepare that you may call upon your god, Israel” [429]

Notice carefully this part where St. Jerome of the Vulgate differentiates 1 Corinthians 3:14 to refer to a reward case (hence Elect Salvation with minimum thirtyfold reward level for “good ground”, Matthew 13:8, implied] as opposed to 1 Corinthians 3:15’s case of Saved by Fire with “no reward” and “suffered loss” in comparison [so Non Elect Salvation with “no inheritance”]as he further states that their sin level matches even the worst type of Sodom and Gomorrah type of “sinners” in the above [compare with my interpolation in Chapter 9, pages 160 – 162 with St. Irenaeus’ let go on Judgment Day case]:

“so let all these men of Sodom, losing their riches, escape naked, according to what we read in the apostle: if his work remains that which he has built up, he will receive a reward; but if his work burns, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, even so as though by fire. He therefore who is saved by fire is snatched away as if by a burning torch.”

Some Bible verses quoted by St. Jerome here:

“14If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire” [430]

“53“When I bring back their captives, the captives of Sodom and her daughters, and the captives of Samaria and her daughters, then I will also bring back the captives of your captivity among them, 54that you may bear your own shame and be disgraced by all that you did when you comforted them. 55When your sisters, Sodom and her daughters, return to their former state, and Samaria and her daughters return to their former state, then you and your daughters will return to your former state.” [431]

“11“I overthrew some of you, As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, And you were like a firebrand plucked from the burning; Yet you have not returned to Me,” Says the Lord. 12“Therefore thus will I do to you, O Israel; Because I will do this to you, Prepare to meet your God, O Israel!” [432]

St. Gregory the Great (c. 540 AD – c. 604 AD), bishop of Rome (Pope).

Just like St. Augustine, St. Gregory the Great also only applies purgatory for Christians context and limits it some small sins.

“But yet we must believe that before the day of judgment there is a Purgatory fire for certain small sins: because our Saviour saith, that he which speaketh blasphemy against the holy Ghost, that it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.66 Out of which sentence we learn, that some sins are forgiven in this world, and some other may be pardoned in the next: for that which is denied concerning one sin, is consequently understood to be granted touching some other.” [433]

However, there is a mysterious event reported in his lifetime by some credible sources including St. John of Damascus (“last father of the church”) who state this real-life event where Non Elect Salvation could have been granted to the evil Emperor Trajan who killed many Christians after the prayers of St. Gregory the Great for him based on some Charity Doctrine defence Trajan did during his life by avenging the unjust death of a son of a widow.

If this story is true and since God has no partiality, isn’t most of our non-Christian friends much better than Trajan since they would never ‘kill a Christian’, right? So, the reason why God asked Trajan to stop praying for ones like Trajan (as the story goes) is probably because He might save them due to prayers by Christians which is probably only fair at the end of time when the Bride calls such thirsty ones to partake of the water at the Final Scene only (Revelation22:17). Here’s that story:

“Remember that Pope Saint Gregory the Great prayed for the Emperor Trajan and his prayer was heard…Trajan was saved: the Roman emperor, he who was a pagan, he who killed Christians in the Colosseum! Why did this great Pope of Rome pray for Trajan? Because there was a time when the holy Church of Rome was joined with her sister Churches and there was a time when the Romans believed that God would deliver souls from hell. But in later centuries this teaching has been lost. We see the belief in the great prayer which still remains in the Roman liturgy for the dead: “Libera animas omnium fidelium defunctorum de poenis inferni et de profundo lacu.” Roman scholars will say that this prayer means exactly what it says. Roman theologians will say that this was an error in the belief of the ancient Church and they have corrected it. They have retained the prayer but they no longer understand it as their ancestors in the faith understood it. There is no doubt that our ancestors in the faith, from the Emerald Isle, during the first millennium believed that souls could be released from hell.” [434]

Now, here’s that story from a Roman Catholic source which objects that this incident can be applied generally to every other case for Non Elect Salvation possibility. Regardless of their objections, they do not deny that it happened and so let God decide which is it one day.

“Objection 5. Further, the Damascene in the same sermon relates that Gregory, while praying for Trajan, heard a voice from heaven saying to him: “I have heard thy voice, and I pardon Trajan“: and of this fact the Damascene adds in the same sermon, “the whole East and West are witnesses.” Yet it is clear that Trajan was in hell, since “he put many martyrs to a cruel death” [De his qui fide dormierunt]. Therefore the suffrages of the Church avail even for those who are in hell.” [435] [436]

St. Athanasius (c. 297 AD – c. 373 AD), bishop of Alexandria.

Here, St. Athanasius the Great writes the love of God which surpasses knowledge includes the context of Christ being known even in Hades context:

“2. This, too, is what Paul means to point out when he says: That ye being rooted and grounded in love, may be strong to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length, and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge, … 3. For by the Word revealing Himself everywhere, both above and beneath, and in the depth and in the breadth — above, in the creation; beneath, in becoming man; in the depth, in Hades; and in the breadth, in the world — all things have been filled with the knowledge of God.” [437]

The context in which St. Athanasius the Great meant in regard to Christ being known even in Hades is explained later in this same famous book on which he defended the Doctrine of Trinity and earned the title Father of Orthodoxy, that is done also on the grounds of possibly referring to Non Elect Salvation regarding those believing after seeing Christ in Hades as it seems to be literally implied next, because St. Athanasius says that even in Hades that man can worship God rightly and be undeceived which is seen as follows:

“Or if a man is gone astray among demons, and is in fear of them, he may see this man drive them out, and make up his mind that He is their Master. Or if a man has sunk to the waters , and thinks that they are God — as the Egyptians, for instance, reverence the water — he may see its nature changed by Him, and learn that the Lord is Creator of the waters. 4. But if a man is gone down even to Hades, and stands in awe of the heroes who have descended there, regarding them as gods, yet he may see the fact of Christ’s Resurrection and victory over death, and infer that among them also Christ alone is true God and Lord. 5. For the Lord touched all parts of creation, and freed and undeceived all of them from every illusion; as Paul says: Having Colossians 2:15 put off from Himself the principalities and the powers, He triumphed on the Cross: that no one might by any possibility be any longer deceived, but everywhere might find the true Word of God. 6. For thus man, shut in on every side , and beholding the divinity of the Word unfolded everywhere, that is, in heaven, in Hades, in man, upon earth, is no longer exposed to deceit concerning God, but is to worship Christ alone, and through Him come rightly to know the Father. 7. By these arguments, then, on grounds of reason, the Gentiles in their turn will fairly be put to shame by us. But if they deem the arguments insufficient to shame them, let them be assured of what we are saying at any rate by facts obvious to the sight of all.” [438]

The Non Elect Salvation part of Worshipping Christ rightly and coming to know the Father via believing after seeing in Hades seems to be implied here by St. Athanasius is (I re-emphasize):

“4. But if a man is gone down even to Hades, … For the Lord touched all parts of creation, … that no one might by any possibility be any longer deceived, but everywhere might find the true Word of God … beholding the divinity of the Word unfolded everywhere, that is, in heaven, in Hades … is no longer exposed to deceit concerning God, but is to worship Christ alone, and through Him come rightly to know the Father.”

St. John Chrysostom (c. 347 AD – c. 407 AD), archbishop of Constantinople.

St. John Chrysostom was nicknamed “Golden-Mouthed” due to his eloquence in preaching. The Catholics use this vague quote by him next in support of purgatory too. I say vague because he implies that some of those prayed for via Christians who do Charity Doctrine get some type of comfort in the Spirit World as a result which I infer as Non Elect Salvation possibility because I don’t think such delivered ones would be in the same regions as Christians who lived holy, believed and suffered for Christ which he himself calls this Elect Salvation regions differently as perfect deliverance below.

“By means of his substance, by means of your own, by what means you will, aid him: … Has he no almsdeeds of his own to exhibit? Let him have at least those of his kindred. … The more sins he has to answer for, the greater need has he of alms, not only for this reason, but because the alms has not the same virtue now, but far less: for it is not all one to have done it himself, and to have another do it for him; therefore, the virtue being less, let us by quantity make it the greatest. Let us not busy ourselves about monuments, not about memorials. This is the greatest memorial: set widows to stand around him. Tell them his name: bid them all make for him their prayers, their supplications: this will overcome God: though it have not been done by the man himself, yet because of him another is the author of the almsgiving. Even this pertains to the mercy of God: widows standing around and weeping know how to rescue, not indeed from the present death, but from that which is to come. Many have profited even by the alms done by others on their behalf: for even if they have not got perfect (deliverance), at least they have found some comfort thence. If it be not so, how are children saved? And yet there, the children themselves contribute nothing, but their parents do all: and often have women had their children given them, though the children themselves contributed nothing. Many are the ways God gives us to be saved, only let us not be negligent.” [439]

St. Basil the Great (c. 329 AD – c. 379 AD), bishop of Caesarea.

St. Basil the Great is probably revealing what his predecessors taught regarding the prayer for the dead where a class of those released from the prison of Hades could be Non Elect Salvation even if he applies it only to believers since beliefs could change over time. So, no harm in trying and let God decide.

“O Christ our God … (who) on this all-perfect and saving Feast, art graciously pleased to accept propitiatory prayers for those who are imprisoned in hades, promising unto us who are held in bondage great hope of release from the vilenes that doth hinder us and did hinder them, … send down Thy consolation … and establish their souls in the mansions of the Just; and graciously vouchsafe unto them peace and pardon; for not the dead shall praise thee, O Lord, neither shall they who are in Hell make bold to offer unto thee confession. But we who are living will bless thee, and will pray, and offer unto thee propitiatory prayers and sacrifices for their souls.” [440]

St. Hilary of Poitiers (c. 315 AD – c. 368 AD), the

Athanasius of the West.

In his famous book, Professor Philip Schaff reveals that St. Hilary of Poitiers argues that the baptized will eventually be saved since even Sodom and Gomorrah can be saved after some Spirit World Judgments in analogy which can be Non Elect Salvation again since those of Sodom are not going to be part of the “Bride of Christ”:

“Hence a prevalent tone of hopefulness about the future state of the baptized; even Sodom and Gomorrah, their punishment in history having satisfied the righteousness of God, shall ultimately be saved359. Yet God has a perfect, immutable goodness of which human goodness,

though real, falls infinitely short, because He is steadfast and we are driven by varying impulses360. This Divine goodness is the standard and the hope set before us. It can only be attained by grace361, and grace is freely offered. But just as the soul, being free, advances to meet sin, so it must advance to meet grace.” [441]

Even a holy Christian man whom God used to bring back and establish the Doctrine of Trinity in the West, such as St. Hilary of Poitiers wrote in that very famous book of his which defended Trinity, that the subjection of his enemies causes death to cease and they too seem to experience immortality thereafter, in his quote next which sounds more like universalism than even the weaker Non Elect Salvation possibility here:

“35. But we must not forget what follows the subjection, namely, Last of all is death conquered by Him. 1 Corinthians 15:26 This victory over death is nothing else than the resurrection from the dead: for when the corruption of death is stayed, the quickened and now heavenly nature is made eternal, as it is written, For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in strife. O death, where is your sting? O death, where is your strife ? In the subjection of His enemies death is conquered; and, death conquered, life immortal follows. The Apostle tells us also of the special reward attained by this subjection which is made perfect by the subjection of belief: Who shall fashion anew the body of our humiliation, that it may be conformed to the body of His glory, according to the works of His power, whereby He is able to subject all things to Himself. Philippians 3:21 There is then another subjection, which consists in a transition from one nature to another, for our nature ceases, so far as its present character is concerned, and is subjected to Him, into Whose form it passes. But by ‘ceasing’ is implied not an end of being, but a promotion into something higher. Thus our nature by being merged into the image of the other nature which it receives, becomes subjected through the imposition of a new form.” [442]

St. Cyril (c. 376 AD – c. 444 AD), archbishop of Alexandria.

St. Cyril of Alexandria writes that during Christ’s descent into Hades, He did not just save the righteous Old Testament faithful and unlearnt Gentiles but also freed those who were sinners where if true, together with my interpolation that I don’t think these freed sinners would be “His Bride” nor enter Heaven (since some of them are actually getting a second chance in Hades since they heard the “preaching of Noah” which is allegory for “preaching the Gospel” on earth, but yet “refused to repent on earth” and so likewise such hope may be available even today) so, this means these could be part of the “final saved nations who don’t enter heaven on that final new earth” (Revelation 21:24 – 27) in our Chiliasm Model being Non Elect Salvation possibility only.

“What occasion will we still have for weeping? On the contrary, will not what has happened to us, thanks to the Savior, cause us boundless rejoicing? He it was Who showed the way of salvation not only to us, but also went as herald to the once disobedient spirits of the underworld, as Peter says (1 Pet. 3:19-20). For it would not have done for His loving-kindness to be shown only to some; the manifestation of the gift had to extended to all of nature. For He spoke opportunely through the Prophets, “One part shall be rained upon, and the part on which I shall not rain shall be dried up.” (Amos 4:7) But the word which befits the Savior is: “Come to me, all you who labor and are weary, and I will give you rest.” (Mt. 11:28) Having proclaimed His message, then, to the spirits in the underworld and having said to those in fetters, “Come forth!” and to those in darkness, “Show yourselves!” (cf. Isa. 49:9) He raised up the temple of Himself in three days, (cf. Jn. 2:19) and renewed for nature even the ascent into heaven, presenting Himelf to the Father as a kind of first-fruits of humanity, having endowed those on earth with a share of the Spirit as a pledge of grace. (cf. 2 Cor. 5:5) (Festal Letter 2.8)” [443]

St. Cyril is quoting these Bible verses where notice that these “spirits in prison” refers to not Old Testament righteous but more likely to those who are “punished” in Hades which is signified by the word “prison”, “no word calling them just/righteous is used” and that they “heard the [Gospel allegory] via the preaching of Noah on earth and rejected it” but now, when Christ preaches a Second time to them in the Spirit World, they “repent” which is stated here as “formerly were disobedient” which simply means they’re not disobedient anymore and so are likely to be saved which could be Non Elect Salvation:

“18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring [f]us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20who formerly were disobedient, [g]when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.” [444]

Its continuation today may be marked by this Bible verse from this same 1 Peter letter too since it’s clearly mentioned that these ones are judged first before being saved which can indicate that this “Gospel Preaching” seems to be done to those “literally dead” and not those ‘spiritually dead’ since the earlier consecutive verses with it do indicate that such ones are ‘spiritually dead’ and no indication is given as to any repentance of them on earth.

So, these verses may be speaking of a Second chance for “Gospel preaching in Hades likewise” after they’re dead (since they did not repent on earth being spiritually dead there first in their sins) and thereafter are judged and saved in Spirit World context which can link to the Baptism by Fire especially since the “judged in the flesh” part before being saved in Chiliasm Model can refer to Matthew 3:11 – 12’s context as discussed in Chapter 10.

“3For we have spent enough of our past [b]lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. 4In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. 5They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” [445]

Notice that Apostle St. Paul also mentioned something similar in regard to a fallen Christian living in sexual immorality to be “judged in the flesh and saved” thereafter not now on earth but in the future Day of Lord Jesus which can refer to this 1000 years Millennial Reign timeline meaning that Cleansing Fire can apply to such before they’re saved. The “dead” in verse 5 and 6 are same and words like “who are dead” are added by some translators (but not others, both scholars) as you can read and compare with the original Interlinear too.

“deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” [446]

Also, if the context of this person’s salvation included being judged in the flesh now, then wouldn’t his salvation in the spirit world be immediate, i.e. absent in the body and present in the Lord case [447] for Elect Salvation instead of the specific mention of ‘future Day of Lord Jesus’ here? Another important point is that some scholars point that he repented on earth [448] but this 2 Corinthians letter was written later (about 2 – 3 years gap [449]) than this 1 Corinthians letter and separately meaning that at the time of the writing, only a “sexually immoral Christian sinner” seems to be implied and so, Apostle St. Paul’s 1 Corinthians verses seem to point to post-mortem salvation after judgment, right?

If these interpolations are true, then the Baptism by Fire described in Chapter 10 with Chiliasm quotes can refer to either done for souls (spirit) or bodily case unto Judgment and they’re saved in Second Resurrection thereafter bodily. It is also possible in light of say 1 Peter 4:5 here, that two such judgments run in parallel in the Millennium (one earthly and one Spirit World context as some of these verses are interpreted by scholars and Church Father quotes both ways too where maybe both are true since Scripture can have both is literal and allegorical meaning at the same time).

Back to St. Cyril, here’s another quote of his which proves Non Elect Salvation since if it’s true and something which is preserved through apostolic succession of leadership before him, then due to the fact that it involves all wicked, it sounds more like universalism which could also mean St. Cyril generalized too much making no distinction between sinners vs wicked (but which is accurate, only God knows).

“For having destroyed hell and opened the impassable gates for the departed spirits, He left the devil there abandoned and lonely” [450]

St. Cyril (c. 315 AD – c. 386 AD), archbishop of Jerusalem.

St. Cyril of Jerusalem seems to hint on Non Elect Salvation possibility for “some” via believing after seeing in the context of Spirit World for those punished in Hades in his famous quote next but notice carefully how he says that this is a Mystery meaning not many Christians too may know it but he is an archbishop of Jerusalem where the Gospel was born and so may be acquainted with such hidden mysteries. (Notice that those of Elect Salvation in comparison are saved “before they die” and “do not endure any Spirit World Judgment” having attained to the minimum “thirtyfold reward level” for “good ground” where “good” ones don’t get punished more, right?). Here is that possibility if he means this since he talks about a twofold descent of Christ with an implication in Hades where he doesn’t conclude whether Christ Saved all there or only those who believed when they say Christ in Hadees during His Descent:

“And if, like a Thomas, you were left out when the disciples were assembled to whom Christ shews Himself, when you do see Him be not faithless;4674 and if you do not believe, then believe those who tell you; and if you cannot believe them either, then have confidence in the print of the nails. If He descend into Hell,4675 descend with Him. Learn to know the mysteries of Christ there also, what is the providential purpose of the twofold descent, to save all men absolutely by His manifestation, or there too only them that believe.” [451]

Some may argue that this is a special case for those who existed before Christ. This could be true but St. Cyril of Jerusalem’s next quote seem to imply that he does believe in some type of Spirit World Salvation after Judgment which could be Non Elect Salvation where this must happen in the “same way” it happened to those mentioned for ‘before Christ’ timeline, right? Notice that the next quote is not time-limited for the past since it involves prayers for the dead even now and so seems to include non-Christians too as I will highlight next (as per the phrase “or there [Hades] too only them that believe” by him earlier), here:

“9. Then we commemorate also those who have fallen asleep before us, first Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, Martyrs, that at their prayers and intercessions God would receive our petition. Then on behalf also of the Holy Fathers and Bishops who have fallen asleep before us, and in a word of all who in past years have fallen asleep among us, believing that it will be a very great benefit to the souls, for whom the supplication is put up, while that holy and most awful sacrifice is set forth. 10. And I wish to persuade you by an illustration. For I know that many say, what is a soul profited, which departs from this world either with sins, or without sins, if it be commemorated in the prayer? For if a king were to banish certain who had given him offense, and then those who belong to them should weave a crown and offer it to him on behalf of those under punishment, would he not grant a remission of their penalties? In the same way we, when we offer to Him our supplications for those who have fallen asleep, though they be sinners, weave no crown, but offer up Christ sacrificed for our sins, propitiating our merciful God for them as well as for ourselves.” [452]

Elect Salvation highlight here (Christians/the Bride with “crowns” with minimum thirtyfold level “good ground” harvest of the Gospel, Matthew 13:8 up to “hundredfold” level, Matthew 19:29 in heavens’ final dwellings, I interpolate in support):

Non Elect Salvation highlight here for those in Hades now (i.e. among those who have “fallen asleep” or “dead”) who have “no crowns” and are “sinners” but may be “saved by fire” only with “no reward” at the Mercy of God and prayer requests of Christians who may have known them earlier in life who are “judged (punished) first in Hades” who may get an abode in the final new earth as part of the nations saved but not enter heaven too with “kings” (maybe Christians meant) ruling over them as Revelation 21:24 – 27 prophesies:

“For if a king were to banish certain who had given him offense, and then those who belong to them should weave a crown and offer it to him on behalf of those under punishment, would he not grant a remission of their penalties? In the same way we, when we offer to Him our supplications for those who have fallen asleep, though they be sinners, weave no crown, but offer up Christ sacrificed for our sins, propitiating our merciful God for them as well as for ourselves.”

Compare with these Bible verses:

“Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife … and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God [453]… 6 … I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. … 24And the nations [n]of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor [o]into it. … … 2In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. … 17And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely” [454]

Notice that Bible verses such as the one below prohibits any “salvation” from “judgment” and no participation apart from Christians only in the First Resurrection (Ezekiel 14:14, 16, 18, 20) together with some “remnant mortals” (Ezekiel 14:22) and “Baptism by Fire” during the Millennium Judgment in the Chiliasm Prophecy Model meaning they do not contradict each other since these (next, Ezekiel prophecy or Matthew 3:11 – 12) parts happen on Old Earth and Old Heavens timeline where the Bible verses quoted earlier (Revelation 21, 22) occur after the times of the kingdom in the final New Earth and New Heavens during the “Final Scene” instead, compare:

“19“Or if I send a pestilence into that land and pour out My fury on it in blood, and cut off from it man and beast, 20even though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live,” says the Lord God, “they would deliver neither son nor daughter; they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness.”

21For thus says the Lord God: “How much more it shall be when I send My four [c]severe judgments on Jerusalem—the sword and famine and wild beasts and pestilence—to cut off man and beast from it? 22Yet behold, there shall be left in it a remnant who will be brought out, both sons and daughters; surely they will come out to you, and you will see their ways and their doings. Then you will be comforted concerning the disaster that I have brought upon Jerusalem, all that I have brought upon it. 23And they will comfort you, when you see their ways and their doings; and you shall know that I have done nothing without cause that I have done in it,” says the Lord God.” [455]

St. John of Damascus (c. 675 AD – c. 749 AD), monk and priest.

St. John of Damascus (John of Damascene) who is sometimes called the “last Church Father” clearly allows praying for the salvation of non-Christians even supporting our Non Elect Salvation possibility in the Chiliasm Prophecy Model presented consistently.

“Did not the Protomartyr save Falconilla after the latter had reposed? Perhaps you may say that her prayer was heard because she was a martyr. To this I reply that it was indeed fitting that her prayer was heard since she was a martyr. But consider also on whose behalf the supplication was made. Was it not for a pagan, an idolater, altogether profane and estranged from the Lord?” … One day, as Gregory the Dialogist, Bishop of Old Rome (a man known to all for his holiness and wisdom, of whom it is said that an angel from heaven served with him when he celebrated the Divine Liturgy), was traveling along a paved stone road, he halted and prayed to God, who loves the souls of men, to forgive the Emperor Trajan his sins. The Saint straightway heard the voice of the most heavenly God, which said to him, ‘I have heard your supplication and shall grant Trajan forgiveness, but I command you to cease your entreaties to Me on behalf of the impure.’ To the veracity of this account East and West alike bear witness … The same is true of Falconilla, of whom we spoke before. She was guilty only of worshipping idols, but Trajan sent numerous martyrs to cruel death. You are wonderful, O Master, and marvelous are Your works, and Your inexpressible compassions do we glorify!” [456]

St. Bede the Venerable (c. 673 AD – c. 735 AD), monk and scholar.

St. Bede the Venerable is known for his historical accounts and some level of scholastic accuracy which is the reason why he is given the title “Father of English History”. In his famous book on English History, St. Bede writes about a man who died and came back to life who may have seen the Spirit World as follows where this man upon coming back to life, even split his possessions equally between his wife, his children and the poor which is clearly a notable Charity Doctrine act:

“At this time a memorable miracle, and like to those of former days, was wrought in Britain; for, to the end that the living might be roused from the death of the soul, a certain man, who had been some time dead, rose again to the life of the body, and related many memorable things that he had seen; some of which I have thought fit here briefly to describe. There was a certain householder in that district of the Northumbrians which is called Incuneningum,841 who led a godly life, with all his house. … Then rising immediately, he went to the oratory of the little town, and continuing in prayer till day, forthwith divided all his substance into three parts; one whereof he gave to his wife, another to his children, and the third, which he kept himself, he straightway distributed among the poor. … [Quoting halfway from this Spirit World Vision part] … In our return, when we came to those joyous mansions of the white-robed spirits, he said to me, ‘Do you know what all these things are which you have seen?’ I answered, ‘No,’ and then he said, ‘That valley which you beheld terrible with flaming fire and freezing cold, is the place in which the souls of those are tried and punished, who, delaying to confess and amend their crimes, at length have recourse to repentance at the point of death, and so go forth from the body; but nevertheless because they, even at their death, confessed and repented, they shall all be received into the kingdom of Heaven at the day of judgement; but many are succoured before the day of judgement, by the prayers of the living and their alms and fasting, and more especially by the celebration of Masses. Moreover that foul flaming pit which you saw, is the mouth of Hell, into which whosoever falls shall never be delivered to all eternity. This flowery place, in which you see this fair and youthful company, all bright and joyous, is that into which the souls of those are received who, indeed, when they leave the body have done good works, but who are not so perfect as to deserve to be immediately admitted into the kingdom of Heaven; yet they shall all, at the day of judgement, behold Christ, and enter into the joys of His kingdom; for such as are perfect in every word and deed and thought, as soon as they quit the body, forthwith enter into the kingdom of Heaven; in the neighbourhood whereof that place is, where you heard the sound of sweet singing amidst the savour of a sweet fragrance and brightness of light. As for you, who must now return to the body, and again live among men, if you will seek diligently to examine your actions, and preserve your manner of living and your words in righteousness and simplicity, you shall, after death, have a place of abode among these joyful troops of blessed souls which you behold. For when I left you for a while, it was for this purpose, that I might learn what should become of you.’ When he had said this to me, I much abhorred returning to the body, being delighted with the sweetness and beauty of the place which I beheld, and with the company of those I saw in it. Nevertheless, I durst not ask my guide anything; but thereupon, on a sudden, I found myself, I know not how, alive among men” [457]

Let me highlight again the 4 classes of “souls” revealed in this vision (if true).

The Damned.

“Moreover that foul flaming pit which you saw, is the mouth of Hell, into which whosoever falls shall never be delivered to all eternity.”

The Elect.

“for such as are perfect in every word and deed and thought, as soon as they quit the body, forthwith enter into the kingdom of Heaven; in the neighbourhood whereof that place is, where you heard the sound of sweet singing amidst the savour of a sweet fragrance and brightness of light.”

The Non Elect Salvation for “punished” case or “saved by fire” (1 Corinthians 3:15, Daniel 12:10’s many “purified”, Matthew 3:11 – 12’s Baptism by Fire and John 10:16’s sheep of the “other fold”?).

“then he said, ‘That valley which you beheld terrible with flaming fire and freezing cold, is the place in which the souls of those are tried and punished, who, delaying to confess and amend their crimes, at length have recourse to repentance at the point of death, and so go forth from the body; but nevertheless because they, even at their death, confessed and repented, they shall all be received into the kingdom of Heaven at the day of judgement”

The Non Elect Salvation for “not punished” case (Matthew 25:31 – 46’s surprised sheep of the nations? John 10:16’s sheep of the “other fold”?).

“This flowery place, in which you see this fair and youthful company, all bright and joyous, is that into which the souls of those are received who, indeed, when they leave the body have done good works, but who are not so perfect as to deserve to be immediately admitted into the kingdom of Heaven; yet they shall all, at the day of judgement, behold Christ, and enter into the joys of His kingdom”

Notice a key difference for the Non Elect Salvation part regarding those who repented last minute are punished in fire first but may be saved later (Case iii) where no indication of “Spirit World confession” is mentioned.

Also, notice that the Non Elect Salvation possibility for Case iv above only seems to mention good works part with no mention of faith nor of confession even though in Case iii it is mentioned, meaning Case iv ones could also “include” (but not limited to), those not perfect in this aspect or due to any other sin reasons likewise (since it’s generally mentioned, so I interpolate). Thus, despite their ”good works” lifestyle in general (perhaps keeping say the keeping of last 6 of the 10 Commandments, see page 147 or Chapter 16), they are still not Elect Salvation (who are written earlier to mean perfect in the context of word, thought and deed in comparison).

I mean imperfect in “word, thought or deed” possibly can include Non-Christians, right? In fact, they’re specifically mentioned only to behold Christ on Judgment Day which seems strange if it is for “Elect Salvation” because all Christians get to meet Christ right after death, right? Entering “Kingdom of Heaven” can also mean separation between final “New Heavens” and “New Earth” as Book of Revelation distinguishes.

Could behold Christ in Case iv above speak of the Mysterious believing after seeing possibility of John 6:29, 35, 36, 40? Compare:

St. Maximus the Confessor (c. 580 AD – c. 662 AD), monk and scholar.

St. Maximus the Confessor writes that while some are saved without Judgment (Elect Salvation) others can only be saved after Judgment (Non Elect Salvation).

“They who have acquired the perfection of love for God and have elevated the wing of the soul through the virtues, according to Apostle “are caught up in the clouds” and do not come into judgment. And they who did not completely acquire perfection but have acquired both sin and good works, come into the court of judgment; there, they are scorched as by a fire by the comparison of their good and evil deeds, and if, in fact, the scale of their good deeds weighs downwards, they are cleansed of punishment.” [459]

Notice that St. Maximus points the context of this passage toward fallen Christians and not non-Christians. I wonder if originally such a concept included any man in general but as time went on, the later scholars narrowed it down to include the “saved after Spirit World judgment” case to be only for fallen Christians just like Lactantius’ quote also rings similarly (shown next).

Lactantius (c. 250 AD – c. 325 AD), scholar and advisor to Roman Emperor Constantine I.

“Not all men, however, shall then be judged by God, but those only who have been exercised in the religion of God. For they who have not known God, since sentence cannot be passed upon them for their acquittal, are already judged and condemned, since the Holy Scriptures testify that the wicked shall not arise to judgment. Therefore they who have known God shall be judged, and their deeds, that is, their evil works, shall be compared and weighed against their good ones: so that if those which are good and just are more and weighty, they may be given to a life of blessedness; but if the evil exceed, they may be condemned to punishment.” [460]

Notice that Lactantius is quoting Psalm 1:5’s context as the wicked will not rise in Judgment. Compare with the Masoretic and Septuagint Bible translations below:

“4The ungodly are not so, But are like the chaff which the wind drives away. 5Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.” [461]

“4Not so the ungodly; – not so: but rather as the chaff which the wind scatters away from the face of the earth. 5Therefore the ungodly shall not rise in judgment, nor sinners in the counsel of the just.” [462]

With this too,

“12His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” [463]

Firstly, we see that the “wicked (ungodly)” are the “chaff” which has no hope in God’s Judgment. Next, in Psalm 5, sinners are mentioned with a “different” word which can imply the possibility that “sinners” could be “cleansed in that Judgment Fire” (as proposed with quotes in Chapter 10’s “Baptism by Fire”) but the “righteous/just” meaning those of “faith” [464] are not mingled with sinners either (implying different final abodes e.g. in Chiliasm Prophecy Model, the “righteous/just” get the “final new heavens” while the “saved by judgment sinners” only get the “final new earth”). I mean the Chiliasm model matches this verse well but whether it is true or not, remains unsure.

Lactantius himself was a Chiliast and here are some of his fascinating quotes agreeing to many things I quoted in the previous chapters of my writing. These are stated next in chronological order of time as he wrote. Firstly, he says that Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ will Return at the end of the Reign of the final Antichrist and destroy him in stages as follows (i.e. Lactantius may have gotten the picture of Chiliasm right but sometimes his details are mixed with interpolations of the Sibyl and others):

“This is the night which is celebrated by us in watchfulness on account of the coming of our King and God: of which night there is a twofold meaning; because in it He then received life when He suffered, and hereafter He is about to receive the kingdom of the world. For He is the Deliverer, and Judge, and Avenger, and King, and God, whom we call Christ, who before He descends will give this sign: There shall suddenly fall from heaven a sword, that the righteous may know that the leader of the sacred warfare is about to descend; and He shall descend with a company of angels to the middle of the earth, and there shall go before Him an unquenchable fire, and the power of the angels shall deliver into the hands of the just that multitude which has surrounded the mountain, and they shall be slain from the third hour until the evening, and blood shall flow like a torrent; and all his forces being destroyed, the wicked one shall alone escape, and his power shall perish from him. Now this is he who is called Antichrist; but he shall falsely call himself Christ, and shall fight against the truth, and being overcome shall flee; and shall often renew the war, and often be conquered, until in the fourth battle, all the wicked being slain, subdued, and captured, he shall at length pay the penalty of his crimes. But other princes also and tyrants who have harassed the world, together with him, shall be led in chains to the king; and he shall rebuke them, and reprove them, and upbraid them with their crimes, and condemn them, and consign them to deserved tortures.” [465]

Lactantius is describing this Chiliasm Prophecy Model timeline and big picture very accurately when compared to what I have written (minus some of his interpolation details) where for example his view of “Baptism of Fire” (just that the word is not used) is to occur immediately after the Second Coming of Christ is very clear next:

“After these things the lower regions shall be opened, and the dead shall rise again, on whom the same King and God shall pass judgment, to whom the supreme Father shall give the great power both of judging and of reigning. And respecting this judgment and reign, it is thus found in the Erythræan Sibyl: —

When this shall receive its fated accomplishment, and the judgment of the immortal God shall now come to mortals, the great judgment shall come upon men, and the beginning.

Then in another:—

And then the gaping earth shall show a Tartarean chaos; and all kings shall come to the judgment-seat of God.

And in another place in the same:—

Rolling along the heavens, I will open the caverns of the earth; and then I will raise the dead, loosing fate and the sting of death; and afterwards I will call them into judgment, judging the life of pious and impious men.

Not all men, however, shall then be judged by God, but those only who have been exercised in the religion of God. For they who have not known God, since sentence cannot be passed upon them for their acquittal, are already judged and condemned, since the Holy Scriptures testify that the wicked shall not arise to judgment. Therefore they who have known God shall be judged, and their deeds, that is, their evil works, shall be compared and weighed against their good ones: so that if those which are good and just are more and weighty, they may be given to a life of blessedness; but if the evil exceed, they may be condemned to punishment.” [466]

Notice how Lactantius’ quote here (which I also quoted at the start) is so similar to both St. Justin of Rome and St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ quote using Matthew 3:11 – 12’s context of “Baptism by Fire” (in pages 187 and 201 respectively for Chapter 10 earlier) to occur in this 1000 years (Millennial Reign) timeline where the only interpolation I bring is that those “saved by fire” here could be more than just fallen Christians when compared to say St. Irenaeus (Page 201) and St. Gregory Nazianzus’ quotes for this part (Page 195).

Next, he says that those of First Resurrection rise and live among mortal men (alongside with beasts on renewed old earth) with Satan locked up for 1000 years:

“But He, when He shall have destroyed unrighteousness, and executed His great judgment, and shall have recalled to life the righteous, who have lived from the beginning, will be engaged among men a thousand years, and will rule them with most just command. … Then they who shall be alive in their bodies shall not die, but during those thousand years shall produce an infinite multitude, and their offspring shall be holy, and beloved by God; but they who shall be raised from the dead shall preside over the living as judges. But the nations shall not be entirely extinguished, but some shall be left as a victory for God, that they may be the occasion of triumph to the righteous, and may be subjected to perpetual slavery. About the same time also the prince of the devils, who is the contriver of all evils, shall be bound with chains, and shall be imprisoned during the thousand years of the heavenly rule in which righteousness shall reign in the world, so that he may contrive no evil against the people of God. After His coming the righteous shall be collected from all the earth, and the judgment being completed, the sacred city shall be planted in the middle of the earth, in which God Himself the builder may dwell together with the righteous, bearing rule in it. … and the moon will receive the brightness of the sun, nor will it be further diminished: but the sun will become seven times brighter than it now is; and the earth will open its fruitfulness, and bring forth most abundant fruits of its own accord; the rocky mountains shall drop with honey; streams of wine shall run down, and rivers flow with milk: in short, the world itself shall rejoice, and all nature exult, being rescued and set free from the dominion of evil and impiety, and guilt and error. Throughout this time beasts shall not be nourished by blood, nor birds by prey; but all things shall be peaceful and tranquil. Lions and calves shall stand together at the manger, the wolf shall not carry off the sheep, the hound shall not hunt for prey; hawks and eagles shall not injure; the infant shall play with serpents. … Therefore men will live a most tranquil life, abounding with resources, and will reign together with God; and the kings of the nations shall come from the ends of the earth with gifts and offerings, to adore and honour the great King, whose name shall be renowned and venerated by all the nations which shall be under heaven, and by the kings who shall rule on earth.” [467]

At the end of this 1000 years, Satan will be released and will do one last deception which fails and thereafter the Great White Throne Judgment Day follows next.

“We have said, a little before, that it will come to pass at the commencement of the sacred reign, that the prince of the devils will be bound by God. But he also, when the thousand years of the kingdom, that is, seven thousand of the world, shall begin to be ended, will be loosed afresh, and being sent forth from prison, will go forth and assemble all the nations, which shall then be under the dominion of the righteous, that they may make war against the holy city; and there shall be collected together from all the world an innumerable company of the nations, and shall besiege and surround the city. Then the last anger of God shall come upon the nations, and shall utterly destroy them; and first He shall shake the earth most violently, and by its motion the mountains of Syria shall be rent, and the hills shall sink down precipitously, and the walls of all cities shall fall, and God shall cause the sun to stand, so that he set not for three days, and shall set it on fire;” [468]

Amazingly, Lactantius also mentions this Chiliasm Prophecy that those of First Resurrection (implied) change from human to angelic as the end of this 1000 years (or millennium) as the meaning of 1 Corinthians 15:52’s “twinkling of an eye change” (which I detailed out with other Chiliasm Church Fathers in Chapter 15 that 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 are separated by 1000 years) and he ends by saying holy prophets and Christians follow these details accurately in his quote below.

“Then the righteous shall go forth from their hiding-places, and shall find all things covered with carcasses and bones. But the whole race of the wicked shall utterly perish; and there shall no longer be any nation in this world, but the nation of God alone. Then for seven continuous years the woods shall be untouched, nor shall timber be cut from the mountains, but the arms of the nations shall be burnt; and now there shall be no war, but peace and everlasting rest. But when the thousand years shall be completed, the world shall be renewed by God, and the heavens shall be folded together, and the earth shall be changed, and God shall transform men into the similitude of angels, and they shall be white as snow; and they shall always be employed in the sight of the Almighty, and shall make offerings to their Lord, and serve Him forever. At the same time shall take place that second and public resurrection of all, in which the unrighteous shall be raised to everlasting punishments. These are they who have worshipped the works of their own hands, who have either been ignorant of, or have denied the Lord and Parent of the world. But their lord with his servants shall be seized and condemned to punishment, together with whom all the band of the wicked, in accordance with their deeds, shall be burnt for ever with perpetual fire in the sight of angels and the righteous. This is the doctrine of the holy prophets which we Christians follow;” [469]

Ambrosiaster (c. 366 AD – c. 384 AD), roman clergy.

Ambrosiaster (translated would be Ambrose) is a name given to an unknown clergy at Rome who did the first complete Latin commentary on the Pauline epistles. How did Ambrosiaster understand this verse?

“For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” [470]

Ambrosiaster writes that the majority of men literally from all nations must believe in Christ eventually (and if true, doesn’t it imply most must be Non Elect Salvation since most men even today or in any timeline of history are not Christians?):

“— The words are different, it is true, but the meaning is the same; at other times, on the other hand, words that seem the same have quite a different meaning, such as these: “AII that is not done in good faith (ex fide) is a sin.” (Rom. 14:23) and these others: “The law does not come from faith,” (Gal. 3:12) although the law is not a sin. This great number of which the Savior speaks is all the men of whom St. Paul speaks: They are in great numbers, because the greater part of all peoples and all nations ought to believe in the Savior. It is this great number of those who must believe that the Apostle calls all men. “He is dead for all,” he says, “that is, for those who believe and must believe.”” [471]

Ambrosiaster’s next quote looks similar to Book of 1 Enoch’s quote at the start of this chapter (page 209) where in God’s Judgment Court, he seems to also see three categories of men: righteous, sinners and ungodly (wicked). The righteous are “honoured and rewarded” with Salvation (1 Corinthians 3:14) while some of the sinners he mentions includes fallen Christians and also those who regarded the Christian faith as madness (which means must refer to some non-Christians , right?) who repent of their unbelief only on that ‘judgment time’ implying believing after seeing possibility and thereby could be saved (hence Non Elect Salvation possibility, 1 Corinthians 3:15‘s case can match it) as he only seems to mention the ungodly (differently) to perish:

“In fact, the knowledge of God must inspire the fear of the just judge, in whose court he teaches us that the faithful will receive the reward of their righteousness, and the ungodly, that is to say the unbelievers, the just punishment of their infidelity. It is of all justice, indeed, that the good ones be filled with joy in the future life in which Jesus Christ must reign with his chosen ones. They have been exposed to scorn, outrages in this world where the devil reigns, they will appear surrounded by glory in the kingdom of Jesus Christ for which they have borne the contempt of the worldly. Sinners, on the contrary, who seemed to shine here below a false brilliance, opposing falsehood to truth, have to wait for tribulation and an imaginary glory to succeed for them a contempt, a humiliation too real. The righteous will rejoice in having believed, when they witness the chastisements of the unbelieving, and the unfaithful will repent of their unbelief only when they see both their own chastisement and the glory of those whose faith they had regarded as an act of madness, which was only worthy of their contempt.” [472]

I don’t think that I’m interpolating too far out for the sinners category above when I say that they could be Non Elect Salvation since Ambrosiaster’s own definition for “sinners” has already been explained in an earlier question as follows (where he clearly states that this sinners category [including perhaps of those he mentioned earlier to repent of their unbelief only via believing after seeing on that future Judgment time which is most likely the Baptism by Fire type] where it involves those who are punished but they do not have complete ruin but may be amended which is a hope not available to the ungodly (wicked) which seems to be implied below:

“Blessed is the man who did not stop in the way of sinners.” If he stops there, he stops being blessed to become guilty and worthy of punishment. Yet he still retains some hope of amendment, because he is not impious, but simply sinful. If a man is found who has not entered the council of the wicked and has not stopped in the way of sinners, he is doubly blessed. For he cannot be blessed, if without entering into the counsel of the wicked, he stops in the path of sinners, because if he does not then have a complete ruin, he is nevertheless worthy of punishment. The Psalmist adds: “nor sits in the seat of scoffers.” Happiness, according to him, consists of these three degrees together, and is based on a triple reason, not to enter the counsel of the ungodly, not stopping in the path of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers” [473]

Compare with Bible verses below:

“18Now “If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?” [474]

Indeed, the righteous are “scarcely saved” from “judgment” meaning they’re spared of it while both the “ungodly” and “sinner” must go through it. The interpolation here even based on Ambrosiaster’s quotes earlier is that some “sinners” may be “saved by fire” while the ”ungodly” perish eternally in that same fire.

My claim that Ambrosiaster’s “saved after punishment” quotes earlier includes those saved from Hell (or Hades now) during Christ’s Second Coming can be seen clearly in his own words below:

“The prophet Joel also predicted this phenomenon so that one cannot doubt the fulfillment of a fact attested by several witnesses. “And the sun,” he says, “will be changed into darkness and the moon into blood before the great” and terrible day of the Lord’s coming.” (Joel 2:31) As far as the literal meaning of these words indicates, they seem to be more fitting for the second advent, for then the Lord will manifest himself publicly to all men, to the testimony of Scripture: “Then every eye will see him, and all the tribes of the earth and those who have crucified him will strike their breast.” (Rev. 1:7) Now, if according to the oracles of the prophets the sun is to be covered with darkness in the two events of the Lord, what is the day when, according to the prophet Isaiah, the sun and the moon must shine with greater brilliance?” … And while their unbelief was the cause of their ruin, others arose by the faith that negligence retained powerlessness and infirmity. That is why the Savior said: “I have come to this world for judgment, that those who do not see shall see, and those who see, blind; (Jn. 9:39) That is to say, those whom their knowledge and skill in the law made shine like lights became blind and the eyes of the blind, that is to say ignorant and publicans, open to the light by faith. So the prophet foretold that the Savior would take care of their infirmities, and this prophecy is fulfilled in his time, as we see in the Gospel: “He really has borne our torpor, of our sufferings.” (Isa. 1:4) All these predictions have received their consummation and fulfillment in the Savior’s passion, and thus the salvation of the human race has been done in a true way for those who were on earth or in hell, for the prophecy of Zachariah embraces both of them at once. On earth, men have been freed from the oppression of their enemies by the intervention of the mercy of God, and in hell they were delivered from the sorrows they endured. Indeed, all those who hoped in Christ who had been promised to them awaited the coming of him who was to triumph over death and deliver them from hell. This is why Zechariah says: “To fulfill his mercies toward our fathers.” (Luke 1:72) But if it is understood that this salvation must also come in the second advent, but it 1s especially in the second that the sun will be covered with darkness and the moon will not give its light, how to admit that the light of the sun and the moon will shine more brightly in the day when God will visit his people, since, in one as in the other time when the deliverance of this people begins and ends, we read that not only the light of the sun and the moon will be weakened, but that these stars will be completely obscured. We must therefore understand that the sun and the moon represent the saints here, just as in another place they are compared to the stars of heaven, to the testimony of the Apostle St. Paul, who declares that the saints shine in this world like the stars of the faith. We also read in the Gospel that the righteous will shine like the sun (Matt. 13:43),” [475]

Non Elect Salvation part here is:

“in the Savior’s passion, and thus the salvation of the human race has been done in a true way for those who were … in hell, for the prophecy of Zachariah embraces both of them at once. … and in hell they were delivered from the sorrows they endured. Indeed, all those who hoped in Christ who had been promised to them awaited the coming of him who was to triumph over death and deliver them from hell. This is why Zechariah says: “To fulfill his mercies toward our fathers.” (Luke 1:72) But if it is understood that this salvation must also come in the second advent,”

Notice how Ambrosiaster comments that this “salvation from hell” after Spirit World judgments (since it’s in hell!) must occur during the “Second Coming” future timeline. Ambrosiaster is also telling that in Christ’s “First Coming” (which is past), there was also such a harrowing of hell. He is revealing that the “prophets” have foretold in the Bible two times of salvation from Hell after judgment for some likewise by the Messiah. The salvation of earth when Christ Returns during His Second Coming which is paralleled to happen at the same time as the ‘Salvation from Hell’ in that future time agrees with Chiliasm Prophecy Model that I have presented perfectly for this Non Elect Salvation part since “good ground” of Matthew 13:8 representing Christians are already “good” and so, I think those delivered from “punishment” (i.e. sorrows in hell as Ambrosiaster says) could be Non Christians.

Book of Esdras by Prophet Ezra

Firstly, the Book of Esdras part which I am quoting is found in all Roman Catholic and Orthodox Bibles while during the Protestant Reformation, these were pushed into the Apocrypha section (where Apocrypha means “hidden”). Whether Esdras is Scripture or not, its account is believed as true by Christians and Jews and so, I am not going to argue about that but just present the implication assuming that its contents turned out true.

Here is that a quote from Esdras which states the existence of certain 70 secret books though “canonical Scripture”, but cannot be included in the “public” canon as God instructed to Prophet Ezra who recreated the entire Old Testament Scripture via Divine Inspiration during that time since it was lost/destroyed:

“41And my mouth was opened, and shut no more. 42The Highest gave understanding unto the five men, and they wrote the wonderful visions of the night that were told, which they knew not: and they sat forty days, and they wrote in the day, and at night they ate bread. 43As for me. I spake in the day, and I held not my tongue by night. 44In forty days they wrote two hundred and four books. 45And it came to pass, when the forty days were filled, that the Highest spake, saying, The first that thou hast written publish openly, that the worthy and unworthy may read it: 46But keep the seventy last, that thou mayest deliver them only to such as be wise among the people: 47For in them is the spring of understanding, the fountain of wisdom, and the stream of knowledge.” [476]

So, to agree to the 24 (or 39) Books of the Old Testament is to take this record as true in 2 Esdras which in turn implies in its same sentence the truth of the ’70 hidden/secret books to the wise [477]. Among these, the books to the “wise” could include “Book of 1 Enoch” (which I quoted at the start, page 209” and “Apocalypse of Elijah” (which I will quote later, see page 267) according to some orthodox Jewish traditions [478] where both have very clear Non Elect Salvation claims.

Here is a section where Prophet Ezra is asking for salvation for some sinners who are unsaved where God in His Reply, clearly denies the “Messianic Age” (Olam Ha-ba or World (age/olam/aeon) to come) to such sinners (implied, which is First Resurrection in Chiliasm Christian timeline):

“31For we and our fathers do languish of such diseases: but because of us sinners thou shalt be called merciful. 32For if thou hast a desire to have mercy upon us, thou shalt be called merciful, to us namely, that have no works of righteousness. 33For the just, which have many good works laid up with thee, shall out of their own deeds receive reward. 34For what is man, that thou shouldest take displeasure at him? or what is a corruptible generation, that thou shouldest be so bitter toward it? 35For in truth them is no man among them that be born, but he hath dealt wickedly; and among the faithful there is none which hath not done amiss.” [479]

Next, notice this mysterious reply to the above which can mean Non Elect Salvation for some (if God Wills) as these verses continue next, for God did not entirely say that He rejects all these petitions for this only topic here but rather says that ‘something can be done according to the words of Prophet Ezra who is repeatedly asking for the salvation of some sinners who have no good works to be “saved” (Spirit World and future context, implied)’, which is stated as follows:

“36For in this, O Lord, thy righteousness and thy goodness shall be declared, if thou be merciful unto them which have not the confidence of good works. 37Then answered he me, and said, Some things hast thou spoken aright, and according unto thy words it shall be.” [480]

No details are given for this part and so we may only speculate. Notice also that instead of condemning Prophet Ezra to Hell for asking for Non Elect Salvation possibility even repeatedly and despite given the divine answer as “no”, the opposite is recorded next where God “praises” Prophet Ezra for asking it (and so I decide to follow likewise and see “no” condemnation in trying):

“46Then answered he me, and said, Things present are for the present, and things to cometh for such as be to come. 47For thou comest far short that thou shouldest be able to love my creature more than I: but I have ofttimes drawn nigh unto thee, and unto it, but never to the unrighteous. 48In this also thou art marvellous before the most High: 49In that thou hast humbled thyself, as it becometh thee, and hast not judged thyself worthy to be much glorified among the righteous.” [481]

Here’s another mysterious verse from this same 2 Esdras which seem to speak of some escaping the final judgments through “faith” or “good works”. If the translations quoted below are accurate for the usage of word “or” instead of “and” and if I’m reading it right, this could mean Elect Salvation for those of “faith” (Matthew 25:1 – 13) while Non Elect Salvation for those of “works” (Matthew 25:14 – 46). Also, these verses in Matthew seem to match the possibility given here since for example, strangely, only Matthew 25:1 – 13 mentions words like “wedding”, “virgins”, “bridegroom” which all parabolically relate to Elect Salvation while Matthew 25:14 – 30 only uses the lower words “servant” while Matthew 25:31 – 46 only uses just the plain “righteous surprised sheep” who did “not even know the Lord as they ask back, ‘When did we see you Lord hungry, thirsty, naked, homeless, etc.?’ which can be Non Elect Salvation.

“All this—who will be saved, who will be able to escape through their works or through the faith with which they believe” [482]

Note: “will be saved” can mean different timelines.

So, an interpolation in light of these evidences could be those of good works but “no faith”, are judged first and can be “saved by fire” thereafter via believing after seeing.

Apocalypse of Elijah (Coptic Christian preservation) [483]

As mentioned, this could be one of the 70 secret books to the “wise” which 2 Esdras 14:41 – 47 mentions. Isn’t it strange that the two books which bear the names generally believed to be the two final prophetic witness before the times of the “final Antichrist (Beast)” and before the Second Coming of Lord Jesus Christ which are Enoch (of which we saw Book of 1 Enoch earlier, page 209) and now Elijah here both have clear Non Elect Salvation quotes for different classes of men where this next one seems to mean some (not all) are saved from some type of future fire judgments (be it the “Baptism by Fire” of Matthew 3:11 – 12 or the final “Lake of Fire” of Revelation 20:11 – 15) but only for those whom the Elect Salvation ask for individually*:

“22.It will come to pass on that day that the Lord will hear and command the heaven and the earth with great wrath. And they will send for fire. 23.And the fire will prevail over the earth seventy-two cubits. It will consume the sinners and the devils like stubble. 24.A true judgment will occur. 25.On that day, the mountains and the earth will utter speech. The byways will speak with one another, saying, “Have you heard today the voice of a man who walks who has not come to the judgment of the Son of YHWH.” 26.The sins of each one will stand against him in the place where they were committed, whether those of the day or of the night. 27.Those who belong to the righteous and … will see the sinners and those who persecuted them and those who handed them over to death in their torments. 28.Then the sinners [ in torment ] will see the place of the righteous. 29.And thus grace will occur. In those days, that which the righteous will ask for many times will be given to them.” [484]

*Notice the specific type of Non Elect Salvation here where the Elect Salvation ones who ask for it via prayer requests at that time seem to ask “many times” before it is granted. Also, they can “only ask for the non-elect who has wronged them first in life including killing them too!” which is fair in human logic perspective also because you (the elect) can decide their fate of those who did worst to them (and if you [the elect] don’t want them to be saved, it’s okay as no forcing is involved; thus non-Christians really need to be careful when they wrong Christians as perhaps some may never be forgiven by whom they wronged and so remain eternally in hell thereafter). Compare with these Bible verses which seem to echo likewise for these possibilities even in the “Final Scene”:

“21So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” [485]

Could this be the final forgiveness implied for some where the “Bride” (Elect) calls for them in the future?

“17And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.” [486]

Regarding the Apocalypse of Elijah’s Coptic vs Jewish version and its reliability, I will quote from a website (since whether it’s true or not cannot be determined in 100% certainty, so I will just consider it a possibility):

“Two versions are known today, a Coptic Christian fragmentary version and a Hebrew Jewish version. The title derives from mentions of Elijah within the text, although there is no other reason to assume that he is meant to be the author. This apocalypse is mentioned in the Apostolic Constitutions, the List of Sixty Books, the Synopsis of Pseudo-Athanasius, the Stichometry of Nicephorus, and the Armenian list of Mechithar. Origen, Ambrosiaster, and Euthalius ascribe I Cor. 2:9 to it: “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.” If they are right, the apocalypse is pre-Pauline. The peculiar form in which this quotation appears appears in Clement of Alexandria, Protrepticus x. 94, and the Apostolic Constitutions vii. 32, shows that both have the same source, probably this apocalypse. Epiphanius ascribes to this work Eph. 5:14: “Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.” [487]

Apocalypse of Ezra (Armenian Christian preservation).

This may not be a solid preserved source since it has a few versions and scholars note the contradictions between them. However, one of the versions has the Questions of Ezra part [488] which describes a “possible” Non Elect Salvation quote(Question 6 below)for non-Christians under the condition that Christians (who probably knew them earlier in life, implied by usage) pray for their salvation or do some act of righteous on their behalf (I interpolate perhaps via some good deeds be it either workwise or charity done by that non-Christian toward a Christian first prior in life. This is because I don’t think that any Christian would randomly think of a non-Christian at that future time unless that non-Christian has been kind, helpful and loving toward him).

“James Charlesworth writes (The Pseudepigrapha and Modern Research, pp. 117-118): ‘The one extant Armenian manuscript of the Questions of Ezra has not been edited, but parts of it were translated into English by J. Issaverdens (UWOT. Pp. 457-61). The work is Christian, rather late, and apparently influenced by traditions recorded in 1 Enoch, 2 Enoch, the Apocalypse of Abraham, and the Apocalypse of Zosimus. Issaverdens translates six of the questions Ezra asks ‘the Angel of God’; these can be paraphrased as follows:

1. What has God prepared for the righteous and sinners? Ans. For the righteous are prepared rejoicing and light, for sinners darkness and fire.

2. If all men living are sinners and hence deserve condemnation, are not beasts more blessed? Ans. Do not repeat these words to “Him who is above you.”

3. Where does the soul go after death? Ans. A good angel comes to a good soul, and a wicked one to a bad soul (cf. ApAb). The soul is taken eastward.

4. What is that way like? Ans. There are seven steps to the Divinity; the righteous soul passes through four steps of terror, one of enlightenment, and two of blessing.

5. Why do you not take the soul to the Divinity?

Ans. Ezra is called a vain man (cf. ApZos) who thinks according to human nature. No man or angel can see the face of God, but only the place of God’s throne, which is fiery (cf. 1En 14:18-23, 2En 20).

6. What shall become of “us sinners“? Ans. When you die you will obtain mercy and rest if a Christian prays or performs some act of devotion for you.’ ” [489]

Whether it’s true or not, some orthodox Christians did preserve it with this meaning and notice that both points 1 and 6 refer to these same “sinners” who by default end up in “fire”.

Apocalypse of Abraham

Such an idea of Non Elect Salvationfor some sinners after judgment from the left side to undergo judgement and restoration is found in a non-canonical Jewish writing called the Apocalypse of Abraham. Though not canonical, such writings demonstrate that such ideas are within the realm of possibilities especially if they can match say in this case the “transfer from left hand to right hand after judgment to be restored and saved by judgment day” as literal reading of Matthew 25:31 – 46 can mean likewise.

“A Vision of Sin and Paradise: the Mirror of the World (Chapter XXI.). XXI. … And I saw there the Garden of Eden and its fruits, the source4 of the stream issuing from it, and its trees and their bloom, and those who behaved righteously. And I saw therein their foods and blessedness. 5 And I saw there a great multitude—men and women and children [half of them on the right side of the picture]6 and half of them on the left side of the picture.7 The Fall of Man and its Sequel (Chapters XXIL-XXV.). XXII. … ”10 And I said: “O Lord, mighty and eternal! Who are the people in this picture on this side and on that?” And He said to me: “These which are on the left side are the multitude of the peoples which have formerly been in existence and which are after thee destined,1 some for judgement and restoration, and others for vengeance and destruction at the end of the world. 2 But these which are on the right side of the picture—they are the people set apart for me of the peoples with Azazel.3 These are they whom I have ordained to be born of thee and to be called My People” [490]

Compare this “left hand” to “right hand” transfer for “sheep of other fold” possible context with St. Irenaeus quote in Chapter 9, pages 157 – 158 earlier. Here’s another translation for it for comparison where this source also contains the translation above and this “left side” to “right side” transfer applies to both those who existed before Abraham and after Abraham. The people on the “right side” are called “God’s people” who are “born of Abraham” but this is not physically meant as Bible verses* also have similar words like “seed of Abraham” to attain to the promise of right hand Elect Salvation which we understand as referring to “Christians today [be it Jews or Gentiles] together with Old Testament Faithful with some unlearnt Gentiles too” since New Testament refers to those “born of faith”:

“And I said, “O sovereign, mighty and eternal! Why are the people in this picture on this side and on that?” And he said to me, “These who are on the left side are a multitude of tribes who existed previously…and after you some (who have been) prepared for judgment and order, others for revenge and perdition … 5. at the end of the age. Those on the right side of the picture are the people set apart for me of the people with Azazel; these are the ones I have prepared to be born of you and to be called my people.” [491]

*Here are New Testament verses clearing out the ancient misconception that “children born of Abraham” are not meant as by “flesh or race” but rather those “spiritually born” to be on the “right side” or Elect Salvation:

“6But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.” [492]

“16Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. … 26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” [493]

Sibyline Oracles Book 2 (Christian revision).

Sibyls are quoted and rephrased in a Christian way by Church Fathers such as St. Theophilus of Antioch, St. Clement of Alexandria, Lactantius and St. Augustine of Hippo and even chiliasm church father St. Justin of Rome. Here’s an example quote by St. Justin of Rome,

“We must also mention what the ancient and exceedingly remote Sibyl, whom Plato and Aristophanes, and others besides, mention as a prophetess, taught you in her oracular verses concerning one only God. And she speaks thus:—

There is one only unbegotten God,

Omnipotent, invisible, most high,

All-seeing, but Himself seen by no flesh.

Then elsewhere thus:—

But we have strayed from the Immortal’s ways, And worship with a dull and senseless mind Idols, the workmanship of our own hands, And images and figures of dead men. …

And you may in part easily learn the right religion from the ancient Sibyl, who by some kind of potent inspiration teaches you, through her oracular predictions, truths which seem to be much akin to the teaching of the prophets.” [494]

St. Justin of Rome also wrote that quoting the Sibyl or persuading others to do so is blocked by the Devil and may even be rewarded greatly by God even if we just managed to persuade a few with its contents:

“But by the agency of the devils death has been decreed against those who read the books of Hystaspes, or of the Sibyl, or of the prophets, that through fear they may prevent men who read them from receiving the knowledge of the good, and may retain them in slavery to themselves; which, however, they could not always effect. For not only do we fearlessly read them, but, as you see, bring them for your inspection, knowing that their contents will be pleasing to all. And if we persuade even a few, our gain will be very great; for, as good husbandmen, we shall receive the reward from the Master.” [495]

Why such a motivation to preach from the Sibyls? Around that same time period, St. Clement of Alexandria writes that such a verbal tradition to do so may have originated from Apostle St. Paul’s preaching to “read the Sibyl” in “future” (prophecy context) as he writes,

“He distinguished the most excellent of the Greeks from the common herd, in addition to Peter’s Preaching, the Apostle Paul will show, saying: Take also the Hellenic books, read the Sibyl, how it is shown that God is one, and how the future is indicated. And taking Hystaspes, read, and you will find much more luminously and distinctly the Son of God described, and how many kings shall draw up their forces against Christ, hating Him and those that bear His name, and His faithful ones, and His patience, and His coming.” [496]

The Sibyls themselves are a collection of such prophecies and it spans some time. The one I’m quoting next has clear Non Elect Salvation for some whom the Elect Salvation (called immortals) pray or ask for from the Judgment of Fire context and notice how these saved ones at that time are placed on a “different” salvation location (similar to Shepherd of Hermas’ in page 210 earlier) just that the parabolic name given here is Elysian Fields which can mean the “final new earth” regions instead of “heaven” (in comparison) which is only for “Elect Salvation” as I have interpolated repeatedly before:

“for a long day will God make. And to the pious will the almighty God 405 Imperishable grant another thing, When they shall ask the imperishable God: That he will suffer men from raging fire And endless gnawing anguish to be saved; And this will he do. For hereafter he 410 Will pluck them from the restless flame, elsewhere Remove them, and for his own people’s sake Send them to other and eternal life With the immortals, in Elysian field,” [497]

Could this be the part in the Book of Revelation where the “thirsty” get the “water of life” freely after being “hurt by the Second Death” first in Judgment? (Revelation 21:6) where the “Bride” (Elect, Immortals) also calls at that future time (Revelation 22:17)?

Epistle of Apostles (Epistula Apostolorum).

This writing is preserved in the isolated Ethiopic Orthodox Church. The clearest quote of it is by St. Clement of Alexandria who makes an identical quote found in this with a writing which he did not name but just called it as “Scripture” [498]. Scholar, Professor Brandon Hawk writes,

“Other apocrypha survive in full only in Geʽez because of their significance in Ethiopic Judaism and Christianity, including:

Letter of the Apostles (survives in fragments in Coptic and Latin)

Apocalypse of Peter (survives in fragments in Greek)” [499]

The word “Epistle” means “Letter” here so it’s referring to the same writing. Whether it is canonical or not, we don’t know for sure and so, I present it under the assumption if this part was preserved or is accurate in its prophecy which has possible Non Elect Salvation (non-Christians) for some sinners for whom the Elect Salvation (Christians) pray for which again can correlate with Revelation 21:6 and Revelation 22:17 [while the rest may go astray forever in punishment]:

“For I will say unto him: As thou soughtest, so hast thou found, and as thou askedst, so hast thou received. Therefore condemnest thou me, O man? Wherefore hast thou departed from me and denied me? And wherefore hast thou confessed me and yet denied me? hath not every man power to live and to die? Whoso then hath kept my commandments shall be a son of the light, that is, of the Father that is in me. But because of them that corrupt my words am I come down from heaven. I am the word: I became flesh, and I wearied myself (or, suffered) and taught, saying: The heavy laden shall be saved, and they that are gone astray shall go astray for ever. They shall be chastised and tormented in their flesh and in their soul. … 40 And we said unto him: O Lord, verily we are sorrowful for their sake. And he said unto us: Ye do rightly, for the righteous are sorry for the sinners, and pray for them, making prayer unto my Father. Again we said unto him: Lord, is there none that maketh intercession unto thee (so Eth.)? And he said unto us: Yea, and I will hearken unto the prayer of the righteous which they make for them.” [500]

I think the above is preserved in both Ethiopic and Coptic versions as the source also indicates that the “Coptic resumes” for this part. Notice that the Ethiopian Canon (or Apocrypha) includes the Apocalypse of Peter as well in Prof. Brandon’s quote earlier which also contains a similar statement which we will discuss next.

Apocalypse of Peter

The Apocalypse of Peter was a recent discovery. However, it is mentioned to be “Scripture” in the first oldest known Bible Canon in all of Christianity namely the Roman Canon or Muratorian Fragment (it’s called a fragment and some New Testament books are not printed on it simply because only a portion of it exists and so we cannot limit its content based on this surviving piece of manuscript only). Here’s an attestation of it from an abstract:

“This Apocalypse of Peter has no connection with the Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter from Nag Hammadi (now included in Hennecke5, ii. 633–43; Eng. trans. ii. 700–12). The existence of this apocalypse was known in antiquity. The Muratorian Fragment and the Stichometry of Nicephorus include it among their ‘disputed’ texts. The catalogue of Biblical writings in Codex Claromontanus (Paris gr. 107) includes the Shepherd of Hermas, the Acts of Paul, and the Apocalypse of Peter among its canonical writings, but Eusebius, HE 6. 14. 1 and especially 3. 3. 2 and 3. 25. 4 (Schwartz, GCS 9.2, pp. 548–60, 188, 252), classes it as ‘spurious’ (cf. also Origen, on John 13. 7 (Preuschen, pp. 231–2)). Sozomen in the fifth century, HE 7. 19 (ed. J. Bidez and G. C. Hansen, GCS 50 (Berlin, 1960), p. 331), refers to its being used in public worship on Good Friday. (It is not listed in the Gelasian Decree.) Thus it is clear that the book was popular and widespread in use in the early centuries of Christianity and hovered on the edges of canonical scripture. The Akhmim manuscript (see below) testifies to the popularity of the text up to the eighth or ninth century, when that manuscript was copied.” [501]

The Apocalypse of Peter’s manuscript is well studied and documented [502]. The Ethiopian version of it contained the Non Elect Salvation part which may be granted for some after the “prayers of the Elect Salvation for them” at that future time (not now) as follows:

“Next: ‘ The Father hath committed all judgement unto the Son.’ The destiny of sinners -their eternal doom– is more than Peter can endure: he appeals to Christ to have pity on them. And my Lord answered me and said to me: ‘Hast thou understood that which I said unto thee before? It is permitted unto thee to know that concerning which thou askest: but thou must not tell that which thou hearest unto the sinners lest they transgress the more, and sin.’ Peter weeps many hours, and is at last consoled by an answer which, though exceedingly diffuse and vague does seem to promise ultimate pardon for all: ‘My Father will give unto them all the life, the glory, and the kingdom that passeth not away,’ . . . ‘It is because of them that have believed in me that I am come. It is also because of them that have believed in me, that, at their word, I shall have pity on men.” [503]

Some scholars noted that this claim is not consistent with their current orthodoxy. So, they claimed that the Ethiopian version was corrupted or interpolated. Then, came along a scholar with the Rainer Fragment discovery which was found in a tomb of a Christian monk or priest who was buried with it (which seems to suggest that he probably held it dear to him). You can read an account of this in the freely available part of the distinguished journal which published it (and others reprinted it) together with the quote stated next. The difference here is that the Rainer Fragment discovery is showing the text in Greek implying it could be a copy of the original Apocalypse of Peter and the most interesting part is this fragment that survived is earliest known and it contained “exactly” this Non Elect Salvation part as follows:

“Then will I give unto my called and my chosen whomsoever they shall ask me for, out of torment, and will give them a fair baptism in (or unto) salvation from the Acherusian lake which men so call in the Elysian field, even a portion of righteousness with my holy ones. And I will depart, I and my chosen, rejoicing, with the patriarchs, unto mine eternal kingdom, and I will perform for them the promises which I promised them, I and my Father which is in heaven. Lo, I have manifested unto thee, Peter, and have expounded all this. And go thou into a city that ruleth over the west, and drink the cup which I promised thee, at the hands of the son of him that is in Hades, that his destruction may have a beginning; and (lit.) thou acceptable of the promise …. (perhaps (become )a receiver of the promise).” [504]

Notice how it details out “My chosen” which is the “Elect” and their salvation in heaven (the “Bride” of Revelation 21:9 – 10) while describing that the saved “Non Elect” do not enter heaven but may get only a “portion” of the kingdom (overall) which correlates well with my possibility interpolation that this refers to the “final new earth” regions who become part of the “saved nations” who do not enter heaven (Revelation 21:24 – 27).

It’s also a mystery whether Matthew 3:11 – 12’s Baptism by Fire (described in Chapter 10) can correlate with it or whether Revelation 21:6 and Revelation 22:17 in the “Final Scene” correlates independently with it as the “Bride” calls to these newly saved “thirsty” ones from the “Lake of Fire”. Also, notice an important point where this may not be Universalism because that not all are delivered from that Fire but rather only whom the Elect shall pray or ask for (maybe their unbelieving friends or non-Christian acquaintances on earth earlier?). Since we cannot say for sure whether this writing is Canonical Scripture or not, or even whether is it the “original” mentioned in early Christian literature or not, all we can do is let God decide but this is honesty presented with evidence again and so we can be exempted even if wrong.

Martin Luther (10 November 1483 – 18 February 1546), Protestant Reformer.

Martin Luther is the Father of Protestantism and founder of the Lutheran churches. He never believed in Universalism but neither did he consider those of the Origen type as he implies to be ‘heretics’ based on that belief alone. This is what he wrote about this topic:

“There are those among us, since the times of Origen and his followers, who have considered it too hard, too severe, and contrary to God’s goodness that he should cast people away and create them for eternal torment. … It would be a completely different question to ask whether God could grant faith to a few at the moment of their death or after death and thereby save them through faith. Who would doubt that he could do this? But no one can prove that he does do this … St. Paul speaks the truth: it is God’s will that everyone be made well – for without his will it does not happen. But it does not follow from this that all people are saved.” [505]

Notice carefully how Dr. Luther differentiates between “Universalism” (no possibility) from Non Elect Salvation (“possible”, but no one can prove it). So, the first universally accepted Spirit-Filled Protestant Christian did not consider it a heresy to consider the Non Elect Salvation as a possibility (not doctrine since none can prove it). This supports my position for this writing itself since I attempt to “prove” it by presenting evidence from other First Christianity writings together with my interpolations but yet, since this is a prophecy context, it “cannot” be proven until we see it come to pass or not.

However, the particular phrase used by Dr. Luther here, “grant faith to a few at the moment … after death and thereby save them through faith” easily means the believing after seeing possibility in the Spirit World for Non Elect Salvation where viewing the context of John 6:29, 35, 36, 40 [506] can mean so (if God Wills it). But whether, this means so or not, cannot be proven and so Martin Luther doesn’t pursue this thought further. In his footsteps, I intend to present it as a possibility with evidence responsibly and state the fact that it can be either way (true or false) for we cannot see it from here.

John Wesley (28 June 1703 – 2 March 1791), Protestant Reformer.

John Wesley was the main founder of the Methodist churches who was renown for his almost penniless lifestyle by giving away so much of the money earned through ministry to both churches and for Charity Doctrine which proved his sincerity while preaching the Gospel in words too bringing revival in England during those times. He is my favourite reformer for sure.

The influence of a Moravian Bishop namely Peter Bohler (31 December 1712 – 27 April 1775) toward the conversion of the great Methodist Churches co-founder John Wesley (28 June 1703 – 2 March 1791) is undeniable. We can read this not from an interpretation but directly from the words of Wesley himself since he kept a journal. Bohler encouraged Wesley early on to “preach faith till you have it” [507].

John Wesley certainly held Bohler in high regard and called him a man with “fruits of a living faith” [508]. Interestingly, Wesley was converted to Christianity during the “Aldersgate Conversion Experience” which happened in a Moravian setting and included even Bohler’s presence and encouragements prior mainly and it impacted him to the point that he visited the Moravians for the next 3 months in Germany [509].

Peter Bohler was a Christian Universalist meaning he did not believe in eternal hell for anyone and probably so did some of the Moravians who were present during Wesley’s “Aldersgate Conversion Experience”. Far from the usual claim that if such Christians were present, they might invite the presence of the “devil” due to the error of “full universalism”, it was there where one of the greatest Protestant founders, John Wesley himself was converted. Why would God choose such a person like Bohler to influence and convert Wesley?

In fact, Bohler’s universalism was well known and the other Methodist Churches’ founder, George Whitefield who is an ardent Calvinist clearly wrote a letter to John Wesley to keep away from Bohler due to the fact that Bohler is a Christian Universalist [510]. Wesley probably knew this all along and it did not bother him much and we can probably see Wesley’s own words in his journal possibly regarding this letter too as follows, to quote:

“1741. Sunday, February 1.—A private letter, written to me by Mr. Whitefield, was printed without either his leave or mine, and a great numbers of copies were given to our people, both at the door and in the Foundry itself.

Having procured one of them, I related (after preaching) the naked fact to the congregation and told them, “I will do just what I believe Mr. Whitefield would, were he here himself.” Upon which I tore it in pieces before them all. Everyone who had received it, did the same. So that in two minutes there was not a whole copy left.

Saturday, March 28.—Having heard much of Mr. Whitefield’s unkind behavior, since his return from Georgia, I went to him to hear him speak for himself that I might know how to judge. I much approved of his plainness of speech. He told me that he and I preached two different gospels; and therefore he not only would not join with or give me the right hand of fellowship, but was resolved publicly to preach against me and my brother, wheresoever he preached at all. …

Monday, April 6.—I had a long conversation with Peter Bohler. I marvel how I refrain from joining these men. I scarcely ever see any of them but my heart burns within me. I long to be with them, and yet I am kept from them.

Thursday, May 7.—I reminded the United Society that many of our brethren and sisters had not needful food; many were destitute of convenient clothing; many were out of business, and that without their own fault; and many sick and ready to perish: that I had done what in me lay to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to employ the poor, and to visit the sick; but was not, alone, sufficient for these things; and therefore desired all whose hearts were as my heart:” [511]

Please take note how even such a highly anointed level in the Holy Spirit preacher (by God’s Grace), John Wesley, writes in his own words above (in his journal) regarding the “unkind attitude of Whitefield”, how he “longs” to be with “Bohler type Moravian Christian Universalists” despite the fact that he knows about it and is supposed to keep away? And how Wesley’s thought next revolved around “Charity Doctrine” which was highly emphasized by the Moravians too.

So even the great faith of John Wesley had all these traits and best is, this is not an interpretation but his own words in his own journal. So, if we emulate Wesley’s faith likewise and keep the weaker Non Elect Salvation as a possibility, it seems similar, isn’t it?

“7Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow, considering the outcome of their conduct” [512]

Sadhu Sundar Singh (3 September 1889 – 1929), Christian missionary.

Dr. D.G.S. Dhinakaran (1 July 1935 – 20 February 2008) was Founder of Jesus Calls ministry and a famous evangelical preacher in India. Sadhu Sundar Singh (3 September 1889 – 1929) was a famous Christian in India who influenced the faith of many Indian Christians through his life and writings. Sundar Singh mysteriously disappeared into the Himalayas in 1929 never to be seen again. Sundar Singh claims that Christ appeared to him and caused his conversion after he had hated Christianity, burned a Bible and wanted to commit suicide on a railway line [513]. DGS Dhinakaran was Penteostal but Sundar Singh was not Pentecostal [514].

Sundar Singh believed in Non Elect Salvation and claimed to have seen direct visions in the spirit world of it happening. Sadhu Sundar Singh said,

“I was also told that the love of God operates even in Hell. God does not shine in His full light, because those there could not bear it, but He gradually shows them more and more light, and by and by brings them on and moves their conscience towards something better, although they think that the desire is entirely their own. Thus God works on their minds from within, something in the same way, though in the opposite direction, as that in which Satan suggests temptation to us here. Thus, what with God’s work within and the Light without, almost all those in Hell will ultimately be brought to Christ’s feet. It will perhaps take millions of ages, but when it is attained they will be full of joy and thankfulness towards God ; though they will still be less happy than those who have accepted Christ on earth. …At least, that is the case with the majority, but there are some few personalities, Satan for instance, in regard to whom I was told, ` Don’t ask about them.’ And so I didn’t like to ask, but I hoped that for them also there was some hope. ” They also told me that the Saints help in the work of saving souls in Hell, because there can be no idleness in Heaven. Those in Hell will ultimately be brought to Heaven like the prodigal son, but with regard to the ultimate fate of a certain number you must not ask.” [The Sadhu is inclined to think that perhaps these few will be annihilated]. ” Once I said, ‘So many people will be lost because they have not heard of Christ.’ They said, ` The contrary will be the case ; very few will be lost.’ There is a kind of heavenly joke -no, joke is not a good word for it. `Very few will be lost but many will be saved.” [515]

In one instance, Sundar Singh saw a relatively good atheist saved in the Spirit World after some judgment time. Sadhu Sundar Singh wrote (in Urdu),

“DEATH OF A PHILOSOPHER … The soul of a German philosopher entered into the world of spirits … . I asked one of the angels what the end of this man would be, and he replied “If this man’s life had been altogether bad, then he would at once have joined the spirits of darkness, but he is not without a moral sense, so for a very long time he will wander blindly round in the dim light of the lower parts of the intermediate state, and keep on bumping his philosophical head, until tired of his foolishness, he repents. Then he will be ready to receive the necessary instruction from the angels appointed for that purpose, and, when instructed, will he be fit to enter into the fuller light of God in the higher sphere.” [516]

In another instance Sundar Singh saw a relatively good Hindu-idolater saved in the Spirit World too.

“THE MANIFESTATION OF CHRIST … I saw in a vision the spirit of an idolater on reaching the world of spirits begin at once to search for his god. Then the saints said to him, “There is no god here save the One True God, and Christ, who is His manifestation.” At this, the man was a good deal astonished, but being a sincere seeker after truth, he frankly admitted that he had been in error. He eagerly sought to know the correct view of truth, and asked if he might see the Christ. Shortly after this Christ manifested Himself in a dim light to him, and to others who had newly arrived in the world of spirits, … So, when these spirits saw Christ in this dim but attractive light, they were filled with a joy and peace … all their error was washed away. Then with all their hearts, they acknowledged Him as the Truth, and found healing, and, bowing in lowly adoration before Him, thanked and praised Him. And the saints, who had been appointed for their instruction; also rejoiced over them.” [517]

Despite all this, Dr. D.G.S. Dhinakaran claimed to have seen Sadhu Sundar Singh in heaven. Dr. D.G.S. Dhinakaran wrote,

“There were occasions when the Lord enabled me to have some time in the Second Heaven with Sadhu Sundar Singh, the great and acclaimed Saint of India. The divine joy that was reflected on his face is beyond any description” [518]

Now Sundar Singh claimed to have seen Swedenborg during his spirit world visions and they even spoke about some type of Non Elect Salvation. Sundar Singh wrote,

“Yes, I have talked with the venerable Swedenborg and some other saints and angels about the hells, although I am unable to explain adequately all that they told me. But it is somewhat like this ; No spirit can exist forever, if separated from God by sin or evil. It must either cease to exist or return to God who is the source of life. There is no spirit which will ever cease to exist ; therefore every spirit finally must return to God, even though it may be after ages of ages.” [519]

Swedenborg (29 January 1688 – 29 March 1772) claimed to have seen St. Augustine of Hippo during his spirit world visits and believed in Non Elect Salvation even in his lifetime. Emanuel Swedenborg wrote,

“I have several times talked with Augustine, who was bishop of Hippo in Africa, in the third century. He said that he is there at this time, inspiring them with the worship of the Lord, and that there is hope that this new gospel will be extended into the surrounding regions. I have heard the angels rejoicing over that revelation, because through it there is being opened to them a communication with the human rational, hitherto closed up by the universal dogma that the understanding must be kept in obedience to the faith of the ministers of the church.” [520]

Emanuel Swedenborg also wrote,

“The Papists in the spiritual world appear round about and beneath the Protestants, and separated from them by inter-spaces which they are forbidden to pass, although the monks by clandestine arts secure for themselves a way through, and also send out emissaries by hidden paths to make converts; but they are traced out, and after being punished, are either sent back to their companions or cast down. … The Mohammedans, like all nations who acknowledge one God, love justice and do good from religion, have their own heaven, but it is outside of the Christian heaven. The Mohammedan heaven, however, is divided into two. In the lower they live uprightly with several wives; but only those who give up their concubines and acknowledge the Lord our Savior, and also His dominion over heaven and hell, are raised up from this into their higher heaven. I have heard that it is impossible for them to conceive of God the Father and our Lord as one, but that it is possible for them to believe that the Lord rules over the heavens and the hells because He is the Son of God the Father. It is because of their holding this belief that it is granted them by the Lord to ascend into the higher heaven.” [521]

Watchman Nee (November 4, 1903 – May 30, 1972), Chinese Church leader.

Watchman Nee was a Protestant but not a Pentecostal either. He caused significant revival among Chinese Christians and was eventually martyred in prison in China. Some Pentecostal Christians tried to coerce him to speak in tongues but he didn’t. He wrote,

“Let us look at wonders. I personally am not antagonistic to them. I have seen with my own eyes cases of instantaneous divine healing. Some people profess they can heal diseases. We do not oppose healing, we only contend with erroneous ways of healing. Some ask me if I oppose speaking in tongues. Certainly not, though I do question tongues which are obtained through faulty means. As to visions and dreams, I too have seen great light. We acknowledge that there are such things in the Bible. But I do resist visions and dreams which are obtained through unlawful means. … Let us talk about the baptism in the Holy Spirit. When I was in Shantung this time, I too told people to seek for it. Nevertheless, I do not approve of the shutting in of many people into a small room for several days’ fasting, praying, and chorus singing. Should people do such a thing, it will not take too long for them to have their brain dazed, the will to be turned passive, and their lips to be made to utter strange and incoherent sounds or tongues. And in this way shall their latent power be released. In a meeting for seeking Spirit-baptism, people will keep shouting hallelujah for thousands of times. Eventually, their brain will grow dull, their mind becomes paralyzed, and they begin to see visions. How can you consider this as Spirit-baptism? It is but soul-baptism. What they receive is not the power of the Holy Spirit; it is instead soul force, the manifestation of the latent power of the soul.” [522]

Regarding salvation, Watchman Nee first writes that simply living a holy life only merits a small reward if they never suffered nor stood up for say “doctrine”:

“Now let us summarize what we have seen. The future of Christians is very simple. For a saved Christian the question of the new heaven and new earth, including all eternity, is solved. But the age of the kingdom is controversial. No one dares to say anything about what will happen. What we have to solve today is the problem of the kingdom. In the kingdom there are many ranks of Christians. Many will reign with Christ because they have worked faithfully and have undergone persecution, reproach, and suffering. Some may not have undergone persecution, reproach, and suffering, but they do not have sins either. They have lived a clean life. Although they have done nothing that deserves special merit, they have at least given a cup of water to a little one for the sake of the Lord’s name (Matt. 10:42). They will also receive a reward, but their reward will be very small. In the age of the kingdom, some Christians will receive a reward in the kingdom. Some will receive a great reward; others will receive a small reward. … There are still many things which we are not clear about concerning the future, but the Bible has shown us enough. Although there are details which we have not yet seen, we do know what the children of God will face. Some will receive a reward; some will go into corruption. Some will be put into prison, and still some will be cast into the fire and be burned.” [523]

Watchman Nee writes strangely in his quote above regarding some “Christians” not just receiving “no reward”, but will also undergo “corruption”, “prison” while others may be “cast into the fire and be burned”. This is very similar to my interpolations using Bible verses such as 1 Corinthians 3:14 for “reward” case while 1 Corinthians 3:15’s “saved by fire” with “till the last penny judgment verses in prison” or also Daniel 12:10’s “purified” after judgments and Matthew 3:11 – 12’s “Baptism by Fire” can be linked to his quote here.

Let’s look at Watchman Nee’s quote below next regarding those who will not receive any reward case:

“Those who will not receive a reward are also divided into a few categories. One group will not enter into the kingdom at all. The Bible does not tell us where they will go. It only says that they will be kept outside the kingdom in the outer darkness (Matt. 8:12; 22:13; 25:30; Luke 13:28). They will be left outside the glory of God. Second, there will be many who, in addition to not having worked well, have specific sins not yet dealt with. They are saved, but when they die, they still have sins which they have not repented of and dealt with. They still have the problem of sin with them. These ones will be temporarily put into the fire. They will come out only after they have paid all their debts. This will last at most until the end of the kingdom. I do not know how long this period will actually be.” [524]

One thing is clear though. Watchman Nee believed that the Bible teaches that some are saved after some type of Spirit World Judgments. Also, the age of the kingdom he speaks about is the 1000 years (Millennial) reign which matches the Chiliasm Prophecy Model timeline perfectly.

However, a key difference is he applies all these Bible verses to only fallen Christians but not non-Christians. If you look at the minimum thirtyfold reward level for Christian “good ground” (Matthew 13:8), since it is called “good” and is considered “reward” level (compare with Matthew 19:29’s “hundredfold” reward level mentioned separately than “Eternal Life”), doesn’t it seem that Watchman Nee’s quotes for someone saved after Spirit World judgment seems more likely to match both a non-Christian and fallen Christian who do not enter heaven?

In short, I think Watchman Nee’s quote above for the Bible verses he is thinking of for “those who will not receive any reward case” seem to match our Non Elect Salvation possibility rather than Elect Salvation.

Reverend Billy Graham (November 7, 1918 – February 21, 2018), Evangelist.

Reverend Billy Graham is probably America’s No. 1 evangelist to date. He did not speak in tongues either but was neutral toward those who do (which is my stance too since I cannot determine whether it is real or not).

Billy Graham has even gone on TV to declare his belief regarding Non Elect Salvation [525]. Some erroneously quote the same video samples and falsely claim that he was a universalist. This is clearly not true since he did not say ‘all men will be saved’ but rather only ‘relatively good Non-Christians may also be saved’. He did not detail out theologically how? but the Chiliasm Prophecy Model which I present here can answer that part (if true).

There is no need for Billy Graham to ‘switch’ into ‘Non Elect Salvation’ possibility due to any financial motivation nor because he wants to make himself popular simply because he is already renown and well to do by just preaching Eternal Hell only for Non-Christians prior! In fact, he lost some support from other Christians including his own personal supporters who claim that he is senile but you don’t need to be a medical doctor to see that he is clearly speaking of his own will here rationally.

This does not prove Non Elect Salvation but it shows that Billy Graham really had this conviction for such a belief in him for some time prior since no one just switches from one doctrinal possibility to the next like that especially when one is already at the pinnacle of success. Billy Graham’s own words echo similarly with mine and I can resonate that he just wants to reveal a possibility (not doctrine) in regard to what he hopes could be true, which is just plain honesty and so likewise if he is not unsaved because of this, neither will I be unsaved due to to this either (if Non Elect Salvation turned out false), right? Let’s look at some of his transcribed words for this:

“Quote 1—Are Muslims and Buddhists Saved? (an Interview with Robert Schuller)

Schuller: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?

Graham: Well, Christianity and being a true believer, you know, I think there’s the body of Christ, which comes from all the Christian groups around the world, or outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they’re conscious of it or not, they’re members of the body of Christ. And I don’t think that we’re going to see a great sweeping revival that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God’s purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that’s what God is doing today, He’s calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the nonbelieving world, they are members of the body of Christ because they’ve been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don’t have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they’re going to be with us in heaven.

Schuller: What I hear you saying is that it’s possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life even if they’ve been born in darkness and never had an exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you are saying?

Graham: Yes, it is because I believe that. I’ve met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they’ve believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they’ve tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.

Schuller: That’s fantastic, I’m so thrilled to hear you say that, there’s a wideness in God’s mercy.

Graham: There is. There definitely is.

Quote 2—Salvation without Christ? (an Interview with McCall’s Magazine)

I used to play God, but I can’t do that anymore. I used to believe pagans in far-off countries were lost—were going to hell—if they did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them. I no longer believe that. . . . I believe there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God—through nature, for instance—and plenty of other opportunities, therefore, of saying “yes” to God. (Graham later clarified what he meant here.).” [526]

Notice that Billy Graham’s unlearnt case statement for those who “never heard the Gospel” seems different from the body of Christ which he mentions to consist also of those conscious or not (meaning they certainly include those who heard of the Gospel) since he uses also this phrase from the “nonbelieving world” [where I add, someone can only be an “unbeliever” if he has heard the Gospel but did not believe, since others like this are the different unlearnt in comparison, right?].

I am not encouraging people to remain unbelieving but rather am just stating what Billy Graham said here. Also, notice the criteria he attached to this possibility which is, such Non Elect Salvation ones are required to “love Christ, or know Christ, whether they’re conscious of it or not”, I think will be shown in their lifestyle where for example that they’re kind to Christians and also do especially 6 of the last 10 Commandments relating to man which includes His Charity Doctrine Commands in some way.

I tell unbelievers to repent and believe in Christ and then intercede for their unbelieving dead loved ones (just try and let God decide). However, if you remain an unbeliever, then you are doing “no good” toward your unbelieving dead loved one either by simply blaming God or turning into an atheist. So, why not try this? as some of the Non Elect Salvation quotes from others which I have demonstrated seem to echo a hope likewise.

If Non Elect Salvation doesn’t happen, remember also that it won’t happen even if you remain an unbeliever and so, it’s just a neutral attempt at it (deceiving no one).

Here’s an important note while reading various Church Fathers’ quotes regarding Non Elect Salvation possibility here: If any of these quotes turn out as false on Judgment Day, it’s not my fault since I’m just doing an academic presentation of it and also the Non Elect Salvation possibility can be true even without the existence of one quote from this section either if God Wills it. Since I cannot conclusively determine the Will of God, I am just presenting the evidence for how the Chiliasm Prophecy Model can match even these quotes from some non-Chiliasm sources even for the area of Non Elect Salvation possibility. My point here is honesty because as you can read, these quotes exist and some are clearer than others, while some others seem to be a little vague or is interpolated by me as to how I think it can match the Non Elect Salvation possibility.

Does Romans 2 speak only of a hope for unlearnt case?

Notice that Romans 2:12 – 13 [527]points not to the unlearnt case but learnt case since it reads “hearers of the Law (gospel)” can be “justified” if they “did the works of the Law (Gospel commands)” which could be the “saved by fire” case of 1 Corinthians 3:15. Also, if any person with faith in Christ must be able to get a minimum reward for faith which would assign him to 1 Corinthians 3:14’s reward case for it is hard to conceive that a person with faith gets zero rewards and is saved by fire as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3:15 since faith itself is a great thing, isn’t it? Also, faith without works would be dead [528] meaning that any person with a living faith (hence a Christian) must be 1 Corinthians 3:14’s honoured reward case, right?

I am writing this not to confuse you but to honestly present the deeper thoughts which arise when we map these verses to each other. Just like the unlearnt case requires such saved ones to see and believe in Lord Jesus Christ in the Spirit World, such “saved by fire” case ones of 1 Corinthians 3:15 also may refer to this class of “believing after seeing” case of John 6:29, 36, 40 where Christ was only angry with the Jews for not believing Him even after seeing Him and His miracles and other works.

Whether this is a misguided interpretation or accurate truth is open to debate and this particular topic of non-elect salvation is something I was attracted to from the writings of such earliest Church Fathers. How would it be fair to Christians then to believe here on earth and not in the Spirit World?

Many Pentecostals really believe in Dr. D.G.S. Dhinakaran’s claim of going to heaven and seeing even Sadhu Sundar Singh. This means either Sundar Singh’s non-elect salvation quotes are true or if wrong, they don’t affect salvation at all (because quite a number of Christians and non-Christians have either believed or been affected by Sundar Singh’s non-elect salvation quotes shown prior).

As for me, though I present the evidence strongly and I hope that non-elect salvation possibility turns out to be true, but yet I can only stand neutral still in regard to things which I cannot know for sure until I die and meet the Lord.

I often take this neutral stance on matters of prophecy but present the evidence for the side which I think is more probable so that I don’t accidentally mislead anyone and have already told them all these facts in advance.

St. Justin of Rome has written that no Christian goes to heaven [529]until after the resurrection because we need that “change” from “human” to “no more flesh and blood” celestial body to be able to “enter the final heavens” which is the “change” from “natural body” to “spiritual body” [530]for the elect at the last trumpet.

This is only understood accurately like this if we take all the Chiliasm church father quotes as a whole to understand what he failed to write explicitly. St. Justin is not denying that some can have heavenly visions if God permits it (2 Corinthians 12:2) but rather is writing against those who say they that there is no bodily resurrection (in flesh and blood first) and can live in the heavens permanently in a spirit state.

This is further substantiated by Lord Jesus Christ’s own Resurrection where as a “Spirit” He did not go to “heaven” [531]yet and could only do so after “Bodily Resurrection” [532].

Christ’s Resurrection Body is not merely flesh and blood but beyond and when we rise from the dead, we are not immediately conformed to it yet until the marriage of the Lamb (that’s one of the purpose for it) is complete after the 1000 years and our body sharing “one flesh” with Christ’s is “transformed into some glory” [533]as per Chiliasm quotes shown earlier.

Roman Catholics like to quote both St. Irenaeus of Lyons [534] and Tertullian [535]for unity quotes and that they are the church with direct spiritual descent from the apostles themselves. The problem here is that the “Original Catholic Churches” at the time of their writing is quoted to believe even in Chiliasm quotes which they have written, right? So if even one quote of theirs is not believed or is different from what the Catholic church believes today, then doesn’t that prove that either diversity was allowed and a tradition or an interpretation which prevailed has been dominant proving human free will? Isn’t this same spiritual phenomena observable with the Jews themselves in that they had preserved Scripture, ensured the continuity and function of Levitical priesthood and converted many into Judaism for thousands of years but yet were wrong on many doctrinal points by the time of Christ, some even disbelieving Him?

My point is that majority in number of converts and prevalence of any doctrine or interpretation is not necessarily a sign of truth. For me, the earliest surviving writings of Christianity which mainly involves these Chiliasm church fathers, St. Irenaeus of Lyons, St. Justin of Rome and Tertullian seems to preserve the ancient faith most accurately and where they differ, these could be possibilities but I prefer St. Irenaeus and St. Justin over Tertullian since even the Roman Catholics have noticed some errors in Tertullian and so he is not sainted.

This same St. Clement of Rome (c. 35 AD – c. 99 AD) or Pope Clement I for Roman Catholics who is a direct disciple of apostle St. Peter himself has written a letter that is known as 1 Clement today which is considered Scripture in some early Christianity such as the 5th century Codex Alexandrinus [536] and is even mentioned by St. Irenaeus of Lyons as an authentic tradition from the apostles [537]that has a verse which almost sounds like a prophecy [538]and states that sometimes the person who leaves the church could be more accurate doctrinally despite the ruling of the majority. This is a clear proof of freewill practice which God has allowed even in the area of doctrinal accuracy in a Church.

In other words, St. Clement of Rome basically states that doctrinal accuracy may not always be found in the majority and a person who leaves a Church because of that will attain to great honour and glory in the Lord provided he turned out right [539]. So knowing this should encourage each Christian to be more united and not worry about the approval of masses whenever they stand for some doctrinal accuracy be it in practice or in theory and especially in prophecy aspect too.

How does God’s Will play a role in number of converts for a particular denomination then? Personally, I believe that God allows the leaders we deserve. I mean if more Christians are zealous for God in regards to accuracy and practice at St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ level, then we will get a leader who believes the same as him and vice versa [540]. In fact, prophet Daniel has prophesied that though leading many to righteousness is a great thing but even that shines like the “stars” (lower level) whereas having doctrinal accuracy or “insight” say in prophecy too can result in that final resurrection body glory to inherit the glory like the “heavens” (higher level) [541]. Even St. Irenaeus of Lyons knew that Daniel 12:3 speaks of this glory relating to final resurrection body context [542] based on how much insight in prophecy and/or doctrinal accuracy a disciple of Christ has which remains forever and ever.

So we as Christians should try our best to be accurate and let God decide who shines like heavens and who shine like stars in the end. God has warned through Prophet Jeremiah that in the context of prophecy/oracle, if one claims that it’s one’s own attempt, even if it turned out wrong it’s okay since His Name was not taken in vain [543]. However, if a prophet claims that “God told me so” but He didn’t or that it turned out wrong, then such a person is liable to “eternal” shame or judgment of some sort (in fact, the Hebrew word olam which is translated as “everlasting and perpetual” here appears twice showing its seriousness) [544].

12. Charity Doctrine Prophecy Insights from Chiliasm Church Fathers

I include this part to show the divergence of prophecy context for money from Charity Doctrine focus in Chiliasm timeline (and early Christianity) into Prosperity Gospel focus for modern Christianity. This change of prophecy beliefs regarding money reveals that someone is wrong. Also, if the error is prophecy based, then even their other prophecy statements can be questioned likewise. It also does not mean that those who differ are necessarily “heretics” but rather, it is my intention to highlight that we can all err likewise and so must be vigilant.

Many think that asceticism is how much you fast and pray and don’t enjoy any non-sin worldly pleasure. This has some truth but God Himself already refuted this type of asceticism in Isaiah 58:3 where those “fasting and praying” intensely asked God this,

“3‘Why have we fasted,’ they say, ‘and You have not seen?” (NKJV) [545]

to which God first replied (in this same verse) that such holiness has little to no value if for example, one treats another human being unfairly such as in work or employment here,

“In fact, in the day of your fast you find pleasure, And exploit all your laborers” (Isaiah 58:3, NKJV)

which can be nepotism or racism or even denominationalism within Christianity too. The only way such behaviour can escape God’s Judgment is if say the theology reason they believe in based on which they discriminated another person with opposite theology turns out 100% correct on Judgment Day.

Hence, I’m neutral on some parts of doctrinal possibilities though I don’t agree with it to be safe but on matters which I am certain, I call it doctrine and stand by it taking the risk to be judged by God if wrong.

God also gave another crucial reason why “fasting and praying” alone is not ‘Christian asceticism’ but that it must include “Charity Doctrine” (not an option for some) and since God Himself gave this definition (no other manipulations, twisting nor interpolations can stand against it) as He Thunders as follows,

“6“Is this not the fast that I have chosen … 7Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out; When you see the naked, that you cover him” [546]

Needless to say, they sawed prophet Isaiah. No promise of earthly prosperity is stated but only “heavenly light” will dwell within as it continues,

“8Then your light shall break forth like the morning” (Isaiah 58:8, NKJV)

indicating “Shalom” blessing of peace when one does this right Christian asceticism practice with “prayer, fasting and charity doctrine” skipping neither.

For Example: you can skip 1 out of 3 major meals of a day or more willingly. Christ Taught the same that “Charity Doctrine” cleans “All” (Sanctification context),

“41But rather give alms of such things as you have; then indeed all things are clean to you” [547]

and Apostle St. Paul also practiced it in same “purification” (sanctification) context after Christ’s Resurrection as it reads,

“I came to bring alms and offerings to my nation, … found me purified” [548]

Since

“Obedience is better than sacrifice” [549]

and Christ Said,

“If you love Me, keep My commandments” [550]

which affects our mystical union with Him,

“Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him’.” [551]

and “alms/charity” is His Command here (e.g. Luke 11:41 earlier), so it’s best done to fulfil even the “Great Commission” fully because Christ did not just say “make disciples” (i.e. converts) but also Said in this same Bible Verse,

“18And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19Go [c]therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” [d]Amen.;” [552]

all “as it is Written”.

It’s not my intention to write fully about this topic (which I have done elsewhere [553]), but only to give a few key Chiliasm church fathers’ quotes which will prove the Chiliasm Prophecy Model to include Charity Doctrine and be anti – Prosperity Gospel. This also shows that I do not quote the Chiliasm leaders for the parts which I like only, but wholly too, and where they differ, I choose St. Justin and St. Irenaeus to be most accurate.

St. Irenaeus of Lyons writes,

“For God, who stands in need of nothing, takes our good works to Himself for this purpose, that He may grant us a recompense of His own good things, as our Lord says: Come, you blessed of My Father, receive the kingdom prepared for you. For I was an hungered, and you gave Me to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink: I was a stranger, and you took Me in: naked, and you clothed Me; sick, and you visited Me; in prison, and you came to Me. Matthew 25:34, etc. As, therefore, He does not stand in need of these [services], yet does desire that we should render them for our own benefit, lest we be unfruitful; so did the Word give to the people that very precept as to the making of oblations, although He stood in no need of them, that they might learn to serve God: thus is it, therefore, also His will that we, too, should offer a gift at the altar, frequently and without intermission. The altar, then, is in heaven (for towards that place are our prayers and oblations directed); the temple likewise [is there], as John says in the Apocalypse, And the temple of God was opened: Revelation 11:19 the tabernacle also: For, behold, He says, the tabernacle of God, in which He will dwell with men.” [554]

Notice also carefully how St. Irenaeus of Lyons calls the “Charity Doctrine” aspects of ‘feeding the hungry, thirsty, clothing the naked, inviting the homeless, caring for the sick and visiting those in prison’ as part of the “gift” to God which is considered as “serving God”, “God’s Will” and that it should be done “frequently without intermission” meaning continuously together with “prayer” to His Temple in Heaven. So we see that true prayer must involve Charity Doctrine to match its size.

Does Charity Doctrine apply in the Context of Preaching the Gospel? Perhaps this means that we ought to preach the Gospel as much as we can for if not, even we can be cast into Hell since Scripture has pronounced a “woe” to any Christian who doesn’t preach the Gospel openly especially if taking a living from the Gospel too [555] and only a preaching of the Gospel free of charge willingly is said to merit greater reward in comparison of these verses too [556].

St. Irenaeus of Lyons even highlights the highest hundredfold reward level for the Charity Doctrine context too:

“2. And for this reason the Lord declared, When you make a dinner or a supper, do not call your friends, nor your neighbours, nor your kinsfolk, lest they ask you in return, and so repay you. But call the lame, the blind, and the poor, and you shall be blessed, since they cannot recompense you, but a recompense shall be made you at the resurrection of the just. Luke 14:12-13 And again He says, Whosoever shall have left lands, or houses, or parents, or brethren, or children because of Me, he shall receive in this world an hundred-fold, and in that to come he shall inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29; Luke 18:29-30 For what are the hundred-fold [rewards] in this word, the entertainments given to the poor, and the suppers for which a return is made? These are [to take place] in the times of the kingdom, that is, upon the seventh day, … The predicted blessing, therefore, belongs unquestionably to the times of the kingdom, when the righteous shall bear rule upon their rising from the dead; when also the creation, having been renovated and set free, shall fructify with an abundance of all kinds of food, from the dew of heaven, and from the fertility of the earth: as the elders who saw John, the disciple of the Lord, related that they had heard from him how the Lord used to teach in regard to these times, and say: The days will come, in which vines shall grow, each having ten thousand branches, and in each branch ten thousand twigs, and in each true twig ten thousand shoots, and in each one of the shoots ten thousand clusters, and on every one of the clusters ten thousand grapes, and every grape when pressed will give five and twenty metretes of wine. And when any one of the saints shall lay hold of a cluster, another shall cry out, I am a better cluster, take me; bless the Lord through me. In like manner [the Lord declared] that a grain of wheat would produce ten thousand ears, and that every ear should have ten thousand grains, and every grain would yield ten pounds (quinque bilibres) of clear, pure, fine flour; and that all other fruit-bearing trees, and seeds and grass, would produce in similar proportions (secundum congruentiam iis consequentem); and that all animals feeding [only] on the productions of the earth, should [in those days] become peaceful and harmonious among each other, and be in perfect subjection to man.” [558]

St. Justin of Rome writes that instead of doing Sabbaths (which does not apply to a Gentile believer) or building a Church building (i.e. a ‘house for God’), it’s more important to do these Charity Doctrine acts of which the prophets also taught in order to master the rightly know God context too:

“And that this too may be clear to you, there were spoken from the person of the Father through Isaiah the Prophet, the following words: The ox knows his owner, and the ass his master’s crib; but Israel does not know, and My people has not understood. Woe, sinful nation, a people full of sins, a wicked seed, children that are transgressors, you have forsaken the Lord. And again elsewhere, when the same prophet speaks in like manner from the person of the Father, What is the house that you will build for Me? Says the Lord. The heaven is My throne, and the earth is My footstool. Isaiah 66:1 And again, in another place, Your new moons and your sabbaths My soul hates; and the great day of the fast and of ceasing from labour I cannot away with; nor, if you come to be seen of Me, will I hear you: your hands are full of blood; and if you bring fine flour, incense, it is abomination unto Me: the fat of lambs and the blood of bulls I do not desire. For who has required this at your hands? But loose every bond of wickedness, tear asunder the tight knots of violent contracts, cover the houseless and naked, deal your bread to the hungry. Isaiah 1:14, Isaiah 58:6 What kind of things are taught through the prophets from [the person of] God, you can now perceive.” [559]

St. Justin of Rome also writes regarding how the “Antichrist” teaches opposite to Christian doctrines stated here which includes Charity Doctrine (i.e. St. Justin uses the synonym philanthropy here) and other aspects including “holiness” too:

St. Irenaeus of Lyons confirms likewise the context of upon whom God will look and Isaiah 58’s true fasting requires Charity Doctrine likewise for its fulfilment for the Will of God in these areas during the “New Testament Times” now:

“He says, therefore, Upon this man will I look, even upon him that is humble, and meek, and who trembles at My words. Isaiah 46:2 For the fat and the fat flesh shall not take away from you your unrighteousness. Jeremiah 11:15 This is the fast which I have chosen, says the Lord. Loose every band of wickedness, dissolve the connections of violent agreements, give rest to those that are shaken, and cancel every unjust document. Deal your bread to the hungry willingly, and lead into your house the roofless stranger. If you have seen the naked, cover him, and you shall not despise those of your own flesh and blood (domesticos seminis tui). Then shall your morning light break forth, and your health shall spring forth more speedily; and righteousness shall go before you, and the glory of the Lord shall surround you: and while you are yet speaking, I will say, Behold, here I am. Isaiah 58:6, etc. And Zechariah also, among the twelve prophets, pointing out to the people the will of God, says: These things does the Lord Omnipotent declare: Execute true judgment, and show mercy and compassion each one to his brother. And oppress not the widow, and the orphan, and the proselyte, and the poor; and let none imagine evil against your brother in his heart. Zechariah 7:9-10 And again, he says: These are the words which you shall utter. Speak the truth every man to his neighbour, and execute peaceful judgment in your gates, and let none of you imagine evil in his heart against his brother, and you shall not love false swearing: for all these things I hate, says the Lord Almighty. Zechariah 8:16-17 Moreover, David also says in like manner: What man is there who desires life, and would fain see good days? Keep your tongue from evil, and your lips that they speak no guile. Shun evil, and do good: seek peace, and pursue it.” [561]

Tertullian confirms that the context of God desiring Mercy and not Sacrifice which Christ told the “religious leaders” of his time to “go and learn this” (Hosea 6:6, Matthew 9:13, Matthew 12:7) is doing Charity Doctrine:

“But God is truly kind even in spiritual blessings. The utterances of the Lord are sweeter than honey and honeycombs. He then has taunted men as ungrateful who deserved to have their gratitude — even He, whose sunshine and rain even you, O Marcion, have enjoyed, but without gratitude! Your god, however, had no right to complain of man’s ingratitude, because he had used no means to make them grateful. Compassion also does He teach: Be merciful, says He, as your Father also that had mercy upon you. This injunction will be of a piece with, Deal your bread to the hungry; and if he be houseless, bring him into your house; and if you see the naked, cover him; Isaiah 58:7 also with, Judge the fatherless, plead with the widow. Isaiah 1:17 I recognise here that ancient doctrine of Him who prefers mercy to sacrifice. Hosea 6:6 If, however, it be now some other being which teaches mercy, on the ground of his own mercifulness, how happens it that he has been wanting in mercy to me for so vast an age?” [562]

Earlier, we saw how “Charity Doctrine” is not “sacrifice” but “Mercy. Yes, Tertullian re-confirms that God desires Mercy and not Sacrifice means Charity Doctrineand points to Christ’s Luke 11:41 as not an option but a Command (by “relative measure” of “what you have” meaning not giving from donation money but also including “own possessions”) for the context of Sanctification in New Testament times now too next:

“Jesus also interpreted the law to him when He told him that they made clean the outside of the cup and the platter, whereas their inward part was full of ravening and wickedness. This He said, to signify that by the cleansing of vessels was to be understood before God the purification of men, inasmuch as it was about a man, and not about an unwashed vessel, that even this Pharisee had been treating in His presence. He therefore said: You wash the outside of the cup, that is, the flesh, but you do not cleanse your inside part, Luke 11:39 that is, the soul; adding: Did not He that made the outside, that is, the flesh, also make the inward part, that is to say, the soul?— by which assertion He expressly declared that to the same God belongs the cleansing of a man’s external and internal nature, both alike being in the power of Him who prefers mercy not only to man’s washing, but even to sacrifice. For He subjoins the command: Give what you possess as alms, and all things shall be clean unto you. Luke 11:41.” [563]

Notice carefully how Tertullian gives the insight here that the “inward part cleansing” which Christ Spoke of refers to “cleaning of the soul” context here via “Charity Doctrine (alms)”. Tertullian also says that some are outwardly holy (i.e. abstain from external sins) but are not inwardly holy simply because they did not do Charity Doctrine here as what Christ taught.

13. Chiliasm Prophecy Refutation of the Prosperity Gospel

Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ warned,

“Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.” [564]

What’s the context of this prophecy verse?

St. Justin of writes that you can be a faithful Christian but yet be deceived in the context of prophecy (“false prophets” meaning). So, this gives hope that though we as Christians may be deceived by some false prophecies, we can still be considered faithful provided we do not make any of those false prophecies but are just deceived by them. That’s why it is beneficial to be right on weighty matters such as Charity Doctrine with Holiness too so that we may be proved faithful to His Commands.

“For he said, ‘Many shall come in My name, clothed outwardly in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.’ Matthew 7:15 And, ‘There shall be schisms and heresies.’ 1 Corinthians 11:19 And, ‘Beware of false prophets, who shall come to you clothed outwardly in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.’ Matthew 7:15 And, ‘Many false Christs and false apostles shall arise, and shall deceive many of the faithful.‘ Matthew 24:11 There are, therefore, and there were many, my friends, who, coming forward in the name of Jesus, taught both to speak and act impious and blasphemous things; and these are called by us after the name of the men from whom each doctrine and opinion had its origin. … For all that we suffer, even when killed by friends, He foretold would take place;” [565]

New Testament Bible verses reveal that no faithful Old Testament person nor any Nes Testament Christian receives any drop of Abrahamic Promise in their life on earth now as the error of Prosperity Gospel or equivalent thoughts such as Law of Attraction teach. Bible Verses actually teach that no Abrahamic Promise is received by any person on earth in the following verse literally (let’s look at a few translations) [566]:

New International Version

These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised,

New Living Translation

All these people earned a good reputation because of their faith, yet none of them received all that God had promised.

English Standard Version

And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised,

King James Bible

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

New King James Version

And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,

New American Standard Bible

And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,

Yes, the Popular Law of Attraction and Prosperity Gospel Myth is debunked next by actual Spirit Filled Chiliasm Church Fathers who reveal clearly that no “blessings” on earth now is any repayment of faith + good works and all repayment is after the “Resurrection” only where a wrong teaching on this aspect creates “self righteousness and pride” which is kind of “self idolatry thinking their faith or works is the reason for God’s blessing now” where Christ affirmed that any blessing on earth now can happen to both good and evil [567]which is affected by human free will too but He Will Judge it later at end of life since if more is given (e.g. more money, converts, support, family, racial support, salary etc.), then more is required (accuracy in doctrine in both theory and practice) which makes it fair [568].

For those who think I am interpolating this part too much because I’m jealous of their money and easy life, please understand that even if I get that money and such life, the judgment still stands meaning I cannot enjoy it likewise either in that way *. This reasoning is not made up by me but is very similar to St. Justin of Rome below using the same context of verses in Luke 12:46 – 48 likewise as he explains as follows:

“Whence to God alone we render worship, but in other things we gladly serve you, acknowledging you as kings and rulers of men, and praying that with your kingly power you be found to possess also sound judgment. But if you pay no regard to our prayers and frank explanations, we shall suffer no loss, since we believe (or rather, indeed, are persuaded) that every man will suffer punishment in eternal fire according to the merit of his deed, and will render account according to the power he has received from God, as Christ intimated when He said, To whom God has given more, of him shall more be required. Luke 12:48” [569]

Notice that St. Justin writes, “to whom God has given more, of him shall more be required” which clearly refers to the “rich” of this world as St. Justin remarked at the start toward such ones when he said “we gladly serve you, acknowledging you as kings and rulers of men”. It also proves that people in power does not necessarily mean that they’re doctrinally right.

Again, this clearly also contradicts the Prosperity Gospel or Law of Attraction prophecy position generally too because usually such ones think that they’re in “high human position” or are “earning lots of money” because God allows them which is true but what is even more true as St. Justin of Rome highlights clearly here is that sometimes God does that so that unless they can produce more sound judgment in regard to believing in Christ and doing His Will more accurately, i.e. they will be required more where failure can lead to “punishment in eternal fire according to the merit of his deed”.

*Bible verse to counter the unrighteous mammon (“money”) which we could have earned knowingly or unknowingly (for example via salary, sales of books or even other Christian things in ministry itself which could turn out as false especially in light of Chiliasm quotes revealed in this book or that I could be wrong too):

“And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon, that when you fail, they may receive you into an everlasting home.” [570]

Indeed, St. Irenaeus of Lyons clearly reveals that the context of the verse above is to do Charity Doctrine with our earthly possessions (e.g. if we do not have good support system or don’t have family, we can write a will to give to Charity at end of life and God will understand since even Church leaders or monks have a supporting place together with Church money for them):

“but that we should not pronounce an unfair judgment on the dispensations of God, inasmuch as He has Himself made provision that all things shall turn out for good, in a way consistent with justice. For, because He knew that we would make a good use of our substance which we should possess by receiving it from another, He says, He that has two coats, let him impart to him that has none; and he that has meat, let him do likewise. Luke 3:11 And, For I was an hungered, and you gave Me meat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was naked and you clothed Me. Matthew 25:35-36 And, When you do your alms, let not your left hand know what your right hand does. Matthew 6:3 And we are proved to be righteous by whatsoever else we do well, redeeming, as it were, our property from strange hands. But thus do I say, from strange hands, not as if the world were not God’s possession, but that we have gifts of this sort, and receive them from others, in the same way as these men had them from the Egyptians who knew not God; and by means of these same do we erect in ourselves the tabernacle of God: for God dwells in those who act uprightly, as the Lord says: Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness, that they, when you shall be put to flight, may receive you into eternal tabernacles. Luke 16:9 For whatsoever we acquired from unrighteousness when we were heathen, we are proved righteous, when we have become believers, by applying it to the Lord’s advantage.” [571]

St. Irenaeus of Lyons confirms that even the earthly Abrahamic Promise was not received even by Abraham nor by anyone in faith but it is to be received during the First Resurrection of the Just in Chiliasm Prophecy timeline:

“when they rise again to behold God in this creation which is renovated, … It is fitting, therefore, that the creation itself, being restored to its primeval condition, … 2. Thus, then, the promise of God, which He gave to Abraham, remains steadfast. For thus He said: Lift up your eyes, and look from this place where now you are, towards the north and south, and east and west. For all the earth which you see I will give to you and to your seed, even forever. … But the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, declared to Abraham beforehand, That in you shall all nations be blessed. So then they which are of faith shall be blessed with faithful Abraham. Galatians 3:6, etc. Thus, then, they who are of faith shall be blessed with faithful Abraham, and these are the children of Abraham. Now God made promise of the earth to Abraham and his seed; yet neither Abraham nor his seed, that is, those who are justified by faith, do now receive any inheritance in it; but they shall receive it at the resurrection of the just. For God is true and faithful; and on this account He said, Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5” [572]

Similarly, Tertullian states that it’s the Lord Jesus Christ who forbids any type of “earthly recompense now” for any Charity Doctrine act done clearly “refuting” all Prosperity Gospel claims that it was God who was recompensing them with such ‘wealth/health’ on earth now since ‘they were generous or faithful to the Lord’ (as they claim usually). Tertullian also reaffirms that all such good deeds are repaid by God only in the First Resurrection context (implied) and that God dislikes anyone who makes equivalent claims that they are rich on earth or blessed as a reward because they are good people etc., compare:

Likewise, St. Justin of Rome (c. 100 D – c. 160 AD) teaches the same context for possessing the dwellings of Canaan prophecies as referring to after resurrection:

“to possess the dwellings of Canaan, and the offspring of Japheth were predicted as in turn receiving the same possessions, and to the two peoples there was the one people of Canaan handed over for servants; so Christ has come according to the power given Him from the Almighty Father, and summoning men to friendship, and blessing, and repentance, and dwelling together, has promised, as has already been proved, that there shall be a future possession for all the saints in this same land. And hence all men everywhere, whether bond or free, who believe in Christ, and recognise the truth in His own words and those of His prophets, know that they shall be with Him in that land, and inherit everlasting and incorruptible good” [574]

We encourage non-Christians to do Charity Doctrine especially toward Christians so that in the worst case scenario, at least they can appeal to God’s Mercy based on these Bible Verses on Judgment Day to do a responsible preaching:

“34Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you [Non Elect Salvation], inasmuch as you [Non Elect Salvation], did it to one of the least of these My brethren [Elect Salvation], you [Non Elect Salvation], did it to Me [because Christ is One Flesh with His Bride, i.e. those of Elect Salvation on Judgment Day in Chiliasm Timeline].’ ” [575]

We know that Christ has defined His “brethren” to refer to any Christian parabolically as He remarked famously below:

“48But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, ‘Here are My mother and My brothers! 50For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.’ ” [576]

I could not find one Chiliasm Church Father’s quote surviving for verses next. Therefore, I infer that these can correlate to Matthew 25:31 – 46 earlier for Non Elect Salvation possibility if literally read since such ones do any good toward Christians:

“40“He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. 41He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. 42And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.” [577]

I re-emphasize St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ quote for Abrahamic Promise context as Chiliasm’s literal earth inheritance after the literal bodily resurrection of those of “First Resurrection” here:

“2. Thus, then, the promise of God, which He gave to Abraham, remains steadfast. For thus He said: Lift up your eyes, and look from this place where now you are, towards the north and south, and east and west. For all the earth which you see I will give to you and to your seed, even forever. Genesis 13:13-14 And again He says, Arise, and go through the length and breadth of the land, since I will give it unto you; Genesis 13:17 and [yet] he did not receive an inheritance in it, not even a footstep, but was always a stranger and a pilgrim therein. Acts 7:5; Hebrews 11:13 … what God had promised to give him, when He said again to him as follows: I will give this land to your seed, from the river of Egypt even unto the great river Euphrates. Genesis 15:13 If, then, God promised him the inheritance of the land, yet he did not receive it during all the time of his sojourn there, it must be, that together with his seed, that is, those who fear God and believe in Him, he shall receive it at the resurrection of the just. For his seed is the Church, which receives the adoption to God through the Lord. … Know therefore, that they which are of faith are the children of Abraham. But the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, declared to Abraham beforehand, That in you shall all nations be blessed. So then they which are of faith shall be blessed with faithful Abraham. Galatians 3:6, etc.” [578]

Example common God’s Will vs free will dilemma, someone asked:

“what does the LORD meant here by [ HE created evil ]?, how do I interpret ? Isaiah 45:7 | King James Version “7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”

My reply:

“Look at the Book of Genesis. God created evil in the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and asked men to choose it. That’s the principle meaning God does not do evil nor did He implant it in Adam against Adam’s choice but let’s you choose by your freewill to choose good or evil. He judges evil with Hell in the end.”

14. Prophecy of 5 Wise and 5 Foolish Virgins in Chiliasm

Firstly, St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ warned that those who obscure the interpretations of the parables may not be Elect Salvation. This is a reason why I take these Chiliasm prophecy and doctrine quotes seriously and if any interpolation is attempted, I make sure it involves at least one or more of these three principal Chiliasm Church Fathers and state, ‘I could be wrong’.

“2. According to this course of procedure, therefore, man would always be inquiring but never finding, because he has rejected the very method of discovery. And when the Bridegroom Matthew 25:5, etc. comes, he who has his lamp untrimmed, and not burning with the brightness of a steady light, is classed among those who obscure the interpretations of the parables, forsaking Him who by His plain announcements freely imparts gifts to all who come to Him, and is excluded from His marriage-chamber. Since, therefore, the entire Scriptures, the prophets, and the Gospels, can be clearly, unambiguously, and harmoniously understood by all, although all do not believe them;” [579]

Tertullian mocks some heretics and whilst doing so, reveals that the meaning of the oil is living holy (including “financial holiness” which is based on Charity Doctrine, see Chapter 12):

“Himself pure from sin, and in all respects holy, He might undergo death on behalf of sinners. Similarly, you who emulate Him in condoning sins, if you yourself have done no sin, plainly suffer in my stead. If, however, you are a sinner, how will the oil of your puny torch be able to suffice for you and for me?” [580]

St. Methodius of Olympus affirms the same meaning that the oil refers to holiness and good works:

“So long, then, as this people treasured up nourishment for the light, supplying oil by their works, the light of continence was not extinguished among them, but was ever shining and giving light in the lot of their inheritance. But when the oil failed, by their turning away from the faith to incontinence, the light was entirely extinguished, so that the virgins have again to kindle their lamps by light transmitted from one to another, bringing the light of incorruption to the world from above. Let us then supply now the oil of good works abundantly, and of prudence, being purged from all corruption which would weigh us down; lest, while the Bridegroom tarries, our lamps may also in like manner be extinguished. For the delay is the interval which precedes the appearing of Christ. Now the slumbering and sleeping of the virgins signifies the departure from life; and the midnight is the kingdom of Antichrist, during which the destroying angel passes over the houses. But the cry which was made when it was said, Behold the bridegroom comes, go out to meet him, is the voice which shall be heard from heaven, and the trumpet, when the saints, all their bodies being raised, shall be caught up, and shall go on the clouds to meet the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17” [581]

Note: I’m aware that “plenty” of other Church Fathers’ quotes referring to the context of lamp and oil as “faith and good works especially emphasizing Charity Doctrine” exists but I’m not quoting them since this writing is about Chiliasm Prophecy Model only for this part. That’s why I’m quoting only Chiliasm church fathers here to demonstrate it. I mean, adding those numerous quotes is just going to re-confirm this position.

Tertullian confirms that the wedding garment (raiment) for those invited to the “Marriage of the Lamb” (i.e. the First Resurrection) is good works and those without it are “cast out”:

“He also who shall not be clothed at the marriage feast in the raiment of good works, will have to be bound hand and foot,— as being, of course, raised in his body. So, again, the very reclining at the feast in the kingdom of God, and sitting on Christ’s thrones, and standing at last on His right hand and His left, and eating of the tree of life: what are all these but most certain proofs of a bodily appointment and destination?” [582]

St. Irenaeus of Lyons reveals that the Holy Spirit of God rests by His choice upon those who have works of righteousness as the most accurate meaning for the wedding garment.

“6. Still further did He also make it manifest, that we ought, after our calling, to be also adorned with works of righteousness, so that the Spirit of God may rest upon us; for this is the wedding garment, … But those who have indeed been called to God’s supper, yet have not received the Holy Spirit, because of their wicked conduct shall be, He declares, cast into outer darkness. Matthew 22:13 … same King who gathered from all quarters the faithful to the marriage of His Son, and who grants them the incorruptible banquet, [also] orders that man to be cast into outer darkness who has not on a wedding garment, that is, one who despises it. For as in the former covenant, with many of them was He not well pleased; 1 Corinthians 10:5 so also is it the case here, that many are called, but few chosen. Matthew 22:14.” [583]

Tertullian goes on to reveal a two-fold meaning of Scripture for wedding garment namely, flesh that is kept holy and also that those who make themselves eunuch (even unmarried) for the Kingdom of Heaven can get greater glory:

“We have also in the Scriptures robes mentioned as allegorizing the hope of the flesh. Thus in the Revelation of John it is said: These are they which have not defiled their clothes with women, — indicating, of course, virgins, and such as have become eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. Matthew 19:12 Therefore they shall be clothed in white raiment, Revelation 3:5 that is, in the bright beauty of the unwedded flesh. In the gospel even, the wedding garment may be regarded as the sanctity of the flesh. Matthew 22:11-12 And so, when Isaiah tells us what sort of fast the Lord has chosen, and subjoins a statement about the reward of good works, he says: Then shall your light break forth as the morning, and your garments shall speedily arise; Isaiah 58:8 [There is a curious change of the word here made by Tertullian, who reads ἱμάτια instead of ἰάματα, “health” or “healings,” which is the word in the Septuagint] where he has no thought of cloaks or stuff gowns, but means the rising of the flesh, which he declared the resurrection of, after its fall in death. Thus we are furnished even with an allegorical defense of the resurrection of the body. When, then, we read, Go, my people, enter into your closets for a little season, until my anger pass away, Isaiah 26:20 we have in the closets graves, in which they will have to rest for a little while, who shall have at the end of the world departed this life in the last furious onset of the power of Antichrist.” [584]

Here’s a set of Bible verses implying the meaning of “lamps burning” to include “Charity Doctrine” to do God’s Will for money (notice that Prosperity Gospel preachers only teach you the ‘receive these [material or wealth] things part’ but they don’t emphasize much on the Charity Doctrine part which must be done with it as Christ Himself speaks here, “in full”):

“31But seek [f]the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added to you. 32“Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 33Sell what you have and give alms; provide yourselves money bags which do not grow old, a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches nor moth destroys. 34For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 35“Let your waist be girded and your lamps burning;” [585]

The meaning is simple: Christ is saying that with the earthly money which you get, if you don’t convert it into “treasure in heaven” via Charity or Alms, your heart remains on earth and not heaven. This is how the Charity Doctrine helps keep your lamps burning too as Lord Jesus teaches here “as it is Written”.

“19“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” [586]

“21Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.” [587]

St. Methodius of Olympus reaffirms the need for good works for the lamps to be lit to become one of the 5 Wise Virgins:

“Whence sin being dead and destroyed, again I shall rise immortal; and I praise God who by means of death frees His sons from death, and I celebrate lawfully to His honour a festal-day, adorning my tabernacle, that is my flesh, with good works, as there did the five virgins with the five-lighted lamps.” [588]

Regarding Sabbath and Law of Moses generally, consider:

All the problems of Bible interpretation can be seen in this one example itself:

i) False teachers taught to keep all Law of Moses for Gentile Believers

“1And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved. … 5But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” [589]

ii) True Teachers taught “Jewish believers and Gentile believers” do not have same observances

“23To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: … 24Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, [h]saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— … 28For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual[j] immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell. ” [590]

Note: as shown next, the other 9 Commandments can be seen in other New Testament Verses and the above is some additional emphasis on some “Law of Moses” non-10 Commandment sexual immorality and blood related commands which applies to Gentiles as well. Notice that sexual immorality commands against LGBTQ (Leviticus 18:22) to prostitutes (Leviticus 19:29) are not 10 Commandments so needed to be emphasized in this council above “generally”. Regarding the 4th Commandment or Sabbath-Command, Colossians 2:16 already settled it. Best is, all key Church Fathers and Protestant Founders taught likewise (see my earlier writings [591] [592] [593]).

Hebrews 4 verse is not talking about keeping the Sabbath but about the “Seventh Day” allegorical meaning of 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ. Indeed, even Chiliasm Church Father St. Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD) points to elect salvation to happen at the start of 1000 years when Christ Returns (2nd Coming) which he calls as the “times of the kingdom” referring to this same Hebrews 4 verse and the phrase “seventh day” in his writing which is after first resurrection context and so, it’s not in current timeline at all [594].

1. The Problem: “you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses” (Acts 21:21, NKJV [595]).

2. The Solution: “you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. ” (Acts 21:24, NKJV).

3. The meaning: “Jewish Christians” can observe the non-contradictory parts of the Torah toward Christ’s Atonement. For example, “Jewish Christians” cannot do blood sacrifice via a bull to atone for sin since Christ already fulfilled it.

4. The difference: The “Gentile Christians” are not seen as ‘same as Jewish Christians’ in these Verses. It’s written that “25But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing,” (Acts 21:25, NKJV).

5. Application: Each Verse you quoted about Sabbath Apostle St. Paul can observe it as per “principle of Acts 21:24” since he is “Jewish and also the fellow Jewish believers” can keep it too.

6. Finer Detail: Each of the 9 of the 10 Commandments can be proven in New Testament for application for “Gentile believers” except Sabbath which Colossians 2:16 by Apostle St. Paul himself releases them from it.

7. Example reference list, to quote:

“Here are the Ten Commandments and where they are found in the New Testament:

1) Do not worship any other gods (1 Corinthians 8:6; 1 Timothy 2:5)

2) Do not make idols (1 John 5:21)

3) Do not misuse the name of the LORD (1 Timothy 6:1)

4) Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. (There are many references to the Sabbath day in the New Testament, including the assumption that Jews under the law in the time of Christ would be observing the Sabbath. But there is no direct or indirect command for believers in the church age to observe the Sabbath as a day of rest or of worship. In fact, Colossians 2:16 releases the believer from the Sabbath rule. Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, has become for us our Sabbath rest, according to Hebrews 4:1–11.)

5) Honor your father and your mother (Ephesians 6:1–2)

6) Do not murder (Romans 13:9; 1 Peter 4:15)

7) Do not commit adultery (1 Corinthians 6:9–10)

8) Do not steal (Ephesians 4:28)

9) Do not give false testimony (Revelation 21:8)

10) Do not covet (Colossians 3:5)” [596]

8. Deeper implication

Let’s look at this Verse which is often misunderstood:

“26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” [597]

Comments:

i) Some Christians use the Verse above to say that there is no more male-female difference so a woman can be priest or pastor. We just saw in Acts 21:21 – 25 that “Gentile Christians” are not seen as ‘same as Jewish Christians’ meaning this Verse saying “28There is neither Jew nor Greek” here (Galatians 3:28) is referring to future after resurrection Abrahamic Promise context (Galatians 3:26, 29) as per Chiliasm Church Fathers quotes and not on earth now as “Prosperity Gospel” theology and others like that err causing contradictions to these Verses too.

Yes, St. Irenaeus of Lyons (130 AD – 202 AD) [598] clearly writes that the Lord taught (not his opinion) that material wealth is not a product of any faith and the Abrahamic Promise is attained by all Christians when they will be repaid in bodily human resurrection for 1000 years enjoying good meals and non-sinful delights of the restored earth after Christ returns and establishes His Millennial Reign because most missed all these due to being poor or unfairly treated and persecuted in this life. In short, the true Sabbath is Chiliasm’s Millennium.

ii) The same Apostle St. Paul who wrote Galatians 3:26 – 28 also wrote about women being different from men in Church order and Spiritual authority including marriage too. I mean if “male and female” are same now, then how is even husband the head since wife also can be equal, no? So, the New Testament Verses are in force now and to attain to greater obedience and order, it’s written that [599]:

– Women have no spiritual authority over a man (so cannot be pastors, bishops etc. since all these were gender specifically written with words such as “husband of one wife” in the Bible):

“12And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.” [600]

Note: Some say that the Verse above applies to marriage only. Think about it: can God allow a woman pastor to be in authority over an outside man but doesn’t allow her to be in authority over her own husband? In short, if God wanted to allow any equal gender spiritual leadership He would have started it with husband-wife context but He didn’t. Verse:

“For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.” [601]

– Women keep silent in Churches in the context of “preaching/learning” or “asking theological questions” (nothing prohibiting them from say “singing” or “worship”, different words):

“33For God is not the author of [i]confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 34Let [j]your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.” [602]

Notice that these are not cultural adaptations simply because if God wanted to allow culture for these observances, He doesn’t need to put any rule since one culture can allow woman as head while another as man only as head. God doesn’t respect human culture. We need to respect God’s Word.

“making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.” [603]

– Even Galatians 3:28’s context of “no more slaves” is written in context of “equal” heavenly reward of “inheritance” relative to suffering of obedience endured. Verse:

“22Bondservants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in sincerity of heart, fearing God. 23And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men, 24knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for[a] you serve the Lord Christ. 25But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is no partiality.” [604]

Note: God is not asking Christians to keep slaves as some err but rather Saying that even if someone treats you as slave, just know that your suffering, unfair treatment and for your obedience there, God Will Reward with “reward of [Heavenly] inheritance” (implied in Colossians 3:24).

God Wants the Masters to willingly let go of slaves or treat them well and that’s why He taught no violence and if a slave is not released because say he is owned by a non-Christian, God Promises Heavenly return for the time suffered, Verse:

“7with goodwill doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 8knowing that whatever good anyone does, he will receive the same from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free. 9And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that [a]your own Master also is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.” [605]

So, Galatians 3:26 – 28 itself does not remove the rules pertaining to each subcase mentioned which is understood by other Verses but according to obedience demonstrated, one will be rewarded in heaven and its value is higher if one suffered discrimination and unjust treatment for it on earth. Let’s remember that

“Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice” [606]

The Sunday observance is not Sabbath and the Church practices it as the Lord’s Day which is mentioned in the Book of Revelation (not mandatory but to remember Christ, which only occurs once in Revelation 1:10 [607]).

Consider the following thoughts by analogy argument next.

If the argument to “keep the same standards as Jesus keeps and that includes the Sabbath day”, then every other 613 Torah also applies since Christ kept all of it.

Also, if the argument to “keep the same standards as Jesus keeps and that includes the Sabbath day”, then the Jewish believers can keep the Law (Acts 21:21, 24) but Gentile believers no need to keep certain portions of the Torah (Acts 21:25) has no meaning since must be same standard for all, right? So, this position contradicts the quoted Bible Verses as shown earlier.

Also, if the argument to “keep the same standards as Jesus keeps and that includes the Sabbath day”, then the council of Acts 15 need not exist since both “Jewish and Gentile” believers are to observe the same rules. Contradiction again.

Again, if the argument to “keep the same standards as Jesus keeps and that includes the Sabbath day” is true, then every Christian must be circumcised which the Bible Contradicts this position as follows:

– only false teachers taught that Gentile believers must be “circumcised” to be saved.

“1And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” [608]

– True teachers taught that a Gentile believer does not need to circumcise for salvation nor for rewards:

“2Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is [b]a debtor to keep the whole law. 4You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.” [609]

This “good works” context understood by these Chiliasm Church Fathers did not involve Sabbath for Gentile believers.

St. Irenaeus of Lyons writes that just like the physical circumcision and Sabbath observations were only given to Israel (and so the “physical” part in analogy doesn’t apply to Gentiles), but the Chiliasm Sabbath to partake of the Millennium context is fulfilled spiritually by Christians if they do these three things:

Circumcise the hardness of your heart.

Sabbaths taught that we should continue day by day in God’s service.

[we should] ministering continually to our faith, and persevering in it, and abstaining from all avarice, and not acquiring or possessing treasures upon earth.

Please read his quote next carefully to see “his own words” here:

“For it declares: God said to Abraham, Every male among you shall be circumcised; and you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskins, as a token of the covenant between Me and you. Genesis 17:9-11 This same does Ezekiel the prophet say with regard to the Sabbaths: Also I gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord, that sanctify them. Ezekiel 20:12 And in Exodus, God says to Moses: And you shall observe My Sabbaths; for it shall be a sign between Me and you for your generations. Exodus 21:13 These things, then, were given for a sign; but the signs were not unsymbolical, that is, neither unmeaning nor to no purpose, inasmuch as they were given by a wise Artist; but the circumcision after the flesh typified that after the Spirit. For we, says the apostle, have been circumcised with the circumcision made without hands. Colossians 2:11 And the prophet declares, Circumcise the hardness of your heart. But the Sabbaths taught that we should continue day by day in God’s service. For we have been counted, says the Apostle Paul, all the day long as sheep for the slaughter; Romans 8:36 that is, consecrated [to God], and ministering continually to our faith, and persevering in it, and abstaining from all avarice, and not acquiring or possessing treasures upon earth. Matthew 6:19 Moreover, the Sabbath of God (requietio Dei), that is, the kingdom, was, as it were, indicated by created things; in which [kingdom], the man who shall have persevered in serving God (Deo assistere) shall, in a state of rest, partake of God’s table.” [610]

Yes, St. Irenaeus of Lyons continues further in his next quote as he points clearly that God is viewing the Gentile Christian’s obedience in the same way before He created “the Sabbaths for later Israel” and gives the examples of the ancient “big names of faith” to show that each was likewise justified without observing the Sabbath (so, this was not a “law by nature”):

“2. And that man was not justified by these things, but that they were given as a sign to the people, this fact shows — that Abraham himself, without circumcision and without observance of Sabbaths, believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness; and he was called the friend of God. James 2:23 Then, again, Lot, without circumcision, was brought out from Sodom, receiving salvation from God. So also did Noah, pleasing God, although he was uncircumcised, receive the dimensions [of the ark], of the world of the second race [of men]. Enoch, too, pleasing God, without circumcision, discharged the office of God’s legate to the angels although he was a man, and was translated, and is preserved until now as a witness of the just judgment of God, because the angels when they had transgressed fell to the earth for judgment, but the man who pleased [God] was translated for salvation. Moreover, all the rest of the multitude of those righteous men who lived before Abraham, and of those patriarchs who preceded Moses, were justified independently of the things above mentioned, and without the law of Moses. As also Moses himself says to the people in Deuteronomy: The Lord your God formed a covenant in Horeb. The Lord formed not this covenant with your fathers, but for you. Deuteronomy 5:2” [611]

Tertullian writes the same meaning below:

“let him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, … since God originated Adam uncircumcised, and inobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering Him sacrifices, uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was by Him commended … Noah also, uncircumcised — yes, and inobservant of the Sabbath— God freed from the deluge. For Enoch, too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, He translated from this world; who did not first taste death, in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might by this time show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God. Melchizedek also, the priest of the most high God, uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was chosen to the priesthood of God.” [612]

St. Justin of Rome also concludes likewise:

“For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you — namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. … how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us— I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?” [613]

There are plenty of other Church Fathers’ quote against Sabbath observation for Gentiles and here I give an example website to demonstrate that it doesn’t matter which source we quote as long as the quote is real (but it’s better to quote the original source like I did with the principal quotes earlier) apart from showing that this argument is not new discoveries nor interpolations by me but rather are something that’s renown:

“Victorinus [St. Victorinus of Pettau]

“The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord’s day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished”(The Creation of the World [A.D. 300]).

On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God, or a fast. On the seventh day He rested from all His works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord’s day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews, which Christ Himself, the Lord of the Sabbath, says by His prophets that “His soul hateth;”1 which Sabbath He in His body abolished, although, nevertheless, He had formerly Himself commanded Moses that circumcision should not pass over the eighth day, which day very frequently happens on the Sabbath, as we read written in the Gospel.(On the Creation of the World p4 )

Eusebius of Caesarea

“They [the early saints of the Old Testament] did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we [Christians]. They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we. They did not avoid certain kinds of food, neither did they regard the other distinctions which Moses first delivered to their posterity to be observed as symbols; nor do Christians of the present day do such things” (Church History 1:4:8 [A.D. 312]).” [614]

That’s how these Chiliasm giants of faith understood Apostle St. Paul’s Bible verse below that Gentile believers cannot be judged for not observing the Sabbaths (for if observation was mandatory with a change of day to Sunday, why not Apostle St. Paul write that and warn of Hell-fire for breaking it? he didn’t):

“So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,” [615]

Chiliasm Church Fathers did not teach tithing.

St. Irenaeus of Lyons writes that the Lord did not bring up the tithe command toward Gentile believers for the New Testament. In his quote next, St. Irenaeus clearly even shows how some laws are extended such as ‘giving to enemies without worrying about their evil intentions even to emulate God the Father’. Also, no compulsion giving is commanded either and so no other replacement type of tithe teaching was observed either since tithing if commanded, becomes mandatory. The interesting thing is St. Irenaeus of Lyons testifies that tithing was not commanded but Charity Doctrine of sharing all our possessions with the poor was Commanded not just to neighbours but to enemies level as well and so the level we do this, will determine our gradation level and if it is not done at all or done hypocritically, then love of God is absent.

“3. And for this reason did the Lord, instead of that [commandment], You shall not commit adultery, forbid even concupiscence; and instead of that which runs thus, You shall not kill, He prohibited anger; and instead of the law enjoining the giving of tithes, [He told us] to share Matthew 19:21 all our possessions with the poor; and not to love our neighbours only, but even our enemies; and not merely to be liberal givers and bestowers, but even that we should present a gratuitous gift to those who take away our goods. For to him that takes away your coat, He says, give to him your cloak also; and from him that takes away your goods, ask them not again; and as you would that men should do unto you, do unto them: Luke 6:29-31 so that we may not grieve as those who are unwilling to be defrauded, but may rejoice as those who have given willingly, and as rather conferring a favour upon our neighbours than yielding to necessity. And if any one, He says, shall compel you [to go] a mile, go with him two; Matthew 5:41 so that you may not follow him as a slave, but may as a free man go before him, showing yourself in all things kindly disposed and useful to your neighbour, not regarding their evil intentions, but performing your kind offices, assimilating yourself to the Father, who makes His sun to rise upon the evil and the good, and sends rain upon the just and unjust. Matthew 5:45” [616]

St. Justin of Rome does not have a surviving quote on tithing directly but also taught that no compulsion giving exists implying naturally that no tithing doctrine seems more likely especially in light of both St. Irenaeus’ quote earlier and Tertullian’s quote next too which agrees.

“And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. … and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead.” [617]

Tertullian clearly describes how the true “Christian Church” was built upon Charity Doctrine based on any Church Money collected where “no tithes nor any obligatory giving is mentioned” but only that a willing giving is collected which is all voluntary and no Prosperity Gospel type of buying and selling of Gospel things and no luxury lifestyle with Church Money either is lawful for any Church leaders in his quote next.

“The tried men of our elders preside over us, obtaining that honour not by purchase, but by established character. There is no buying and selling of any sort in the things of God. Though we have our treasure chest, it is not made up of purchase-money, as of a religion that has its price. On the monthly day, if he likes, each puts in a small donation; but only if it be his pleasure, and only if he be able: for there is no compulsion; all is voluntary. These gifts are, as it were, piety’s deposit fund. For they are not taken thence and spent on feasts, and drinking-bouts, and eating-houses, but to support and bury poor people, to supply the wants of boys and girls destitute of means and parents, and of old persons confined now to the house; such, too, as have suffered shipwreck; and if there happen to be any in the mines, or banished to the islands, or shut up in the prisons, for nothing but their fidelity to the cause of God’s Church, they become the nurslings of their confession. But it is mainly the deeds of a love so noble that lead many to put a brand upon us.” [618]

Tertullian also clearly writes that it is charity (alms) which God has Commanded as more important than tithes since only the former proves the love of God and cleansing context:

“same God belongs the cleansing of a man’s external and internal nature, both alike being in the power of Him who prefers mercy not only to man’s washing, but even to sacrifice. For He subjoins the command: Give what you possess as alms, and all things shall be clean unto you. Luke 11:41 Even if another god could have enjoined mercy, he could not have done so previous to his becoming known. Furthermore, it is in this passage evident that they were not reproved concerning their God, but concerning a point of His instruction to them, when He prescribed to them figuratively the cleansing of their vessels, but really the works of merciful dispositions. In like manner, He upbraids them for tithing paltry herbs, but at the same time passing over hospitality and the love of God. Luke 11:42 The vocation and the love of what God, but Him by whose law of tithes they used to offer their rue and mint? For the whole point of the rebuke lay in this, that they cared about small matters in His service of course, to whom they failed to exhibit their weightier duties when He commanded them:” [619]

The “good works” context understood by these Chiliasm Church Fathers did not involve Tithes doctrine for Christians but involved Charity Doctrine (see Chapter 12 too) with holiness to become one of the 5 Wise Virgins which makes it perfect.

15. Thousand Year Gap for Prophecy in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 with Chiliasm Church Fathers

Table of Contents

15.0 Introduction ……………….…………………………………………………………….… 356

15.1 St. Justin of Rome ……..…………………. 357

15.2 St. Irenaeus of Lyons …………………….. 360

15.3 Tertullian ……………………………………. 367

15.4 St. Victorinus of Pettau .…………….….. 369

15.5 St. Methodius of Olympus ……………… 370

15.6 Why do Christians need to be in Sinless Human Resurrection Body for 1000

years first before the Change into something Heavenly and no more (old) flesh

and blood? ……………………………………………………………………….……….. 372

15.7 Conclusion ………………………………………………………………………..……….. 374

Note: This is a special section also and so I put in a table of contents of its own to show its breakdown of subtopic and pages.

15.0 Introduction

This is also my original research and I have not seen any other scholar viewing 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 as two different prophecies as I learnt it from these quotes. Bible Verses for 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:50 – 52:

New King James Version (NKJV)

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. [620]

New King James Version (NKJV)

“50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” [621]

Notice that I cannot just interpret a 1000 years gap between these two verses by just reading it as it is and neither can I just claim that these two verses refer to the same event by just reading it either. So, I will show Chiliasm [622] Church Fathers’ quotes which seem to consistently imply that these two prophetic events are separated by 1000 years which in turn can indicate that this part of their writing could be preserving what they had learnt from their spiritual leaders before them in regard to the context of prophecy for these set of verses.

15.1 St. Justin of Rome

Let’s start with St. Justin of Rome (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD). Who was he? St. Justin of Rome or St. Justin Martyr or Justin of Neapolis, was a great early Christian apologist who is a foremost exponent of the divine word, who influenced virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology. He is a Chiliasm Church Father, priest, martyr for Christ and an approved Church Father in the first Lutheran fathers’ Book of Concord, and is venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion and Lutheran Church.

St. Justin of Rome seems to only know of two public comings of Christ (one in the past and the other in the future which must thus include the context of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 after the “final antichrist or man of apostasy” reveals his true colours and persecutes Christians) with no hint of a “secret” coming of Christ for any ‘faithful Christians’ to escape earlier with as pre-tribulation rapture believers teach.

“O unreasoning men! understanding not what has been proved by all these passages, that two advents of Christ have been announced: the one, in which He is set forth as suffering, inglorious, dishonoured, and crucified; but the other, in which He shall come from heaven with glory, when the man of apostasy, who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians, who, having learned the true worship of God from the law, and the word which went forth from Jerusalem by means of the apostles of Jesus, have fled for safety to the God of Jacob and God of Israel; and we who were filled with war, and mutual slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the whole earth changed our warlike weapons — our swords into ploughshares, and our spears into implements of tillage— and we cultivate piety, righteousness, philanthropy, faith, and hope, which we have from the Father Himself through Him who was crucified; [623] … For the prophets have proclaimed two advents of His: the one, that which is already past, when He came as a dishonoured and suffering Man; but the second, when, according to prophecy, He shall come from heaven with glory, accompanied by His angelic host, when also He shall raise the bodies of all men who have lived, and shall clothe those of the worthy with immortality, and shall send those of the wicked, endued with eternal sensibility, into everlasting fire with the wicked devils. And that these things also have been foretold as yet to be, we will prove.” [624]

Notice that St. Justin of Rome’s second coming of Christ quote above is like a summary and does not disprove the Chiliasm prophecy timeline ‘when he says the wicked are raised to be judged here’ since his other quote from his more famous book details a 1000 year separation between the first resurrection and second resurrection judgment [625] in his quote next:

Notice that Christians are changed to become like gods during Judgment Day proving that this change from human to angelic as St. Justin’s usage here must match the other Chiliasm Church Fathers which we will quote later as well, right? So 1 Corinthians 15:50 – 52’s “change” is viewed as this change for Christians to become “gods” in his quote below which happens during the second resurrection timeline when others (“the dead” mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:52) raised to be judged which is seen collectively when compared with his quote earlier too:

“Listen, sirs, how the Holy Ghost speaks of this people, saying that they are all sons of the Highest; and how this very Christ will be present in their assembly, rendering judgment to all men. The words are spoken by David, and are, according to your version of them, thus: ‘God stands in the congregation of gods; He judges among the gods. How long do you judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Judge for the orphan and the poor, and do justice to the humble and needy. Deliver the needy, and save the poor out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither have they understood; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth shall be shaken. I said, You are gods, and are all children of the Most High. But you die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God! judge the earth, for You shall inherit all nations.’ But in the version of the Seventy it is written, ‘Behold, you die like men, and fall like one of the princes,’ in order to manifest the disobedience of men — I mean of Adam and Eve — and the fall of one of the princes, i.e., of him who was called the serpent, who fell with a great overthrow, because he deceived Eve. But as my discourse is not intended to touch on this point, but to prove to you that the Holy Ghost reproaches men because they were made like God, free from suffering and death, provided that they kept His commandments, and were deemed deserving of the name of His sons, and yet they, becoming like Adam and Eve, work out death for themselves; let the interpretation of the Psalm be held just as you wish, yet thereby it is demonstrated that all men are deemed worthy of becoming gods, and of having power to become sons of the Highest; and shall be each by himself judged and condemned like Adam and Eve. Now I have proved at length that Christ is called God.” [627]

St. Justin does not seem to have a direct quote using 1 Thessalonians 4:17 nor using 1 Corinthians 15:50 – 52 so we must infer like this with his other quotes.

15.2 St. Irenaeus of Lyons

St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ view of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 is compared next.

1 Thessalonians 4:17’s unique identifying term for Rapture namely, caught up is stated here to occur just prior to the start of this 1000 years (Millennial) Reign of Christ which is called the times of the kingdom in his writing and this occurrence is after the beast persecutes the Church, where the “beast” is the final Antichrist.

“And they shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. [628] … so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be. Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” [629]

Observe that some believers claim that Christ’s Secret Coming is in the clouds which signifies pre-tribulation rapture while Christ’s Coming with his feet touching the Mount of Olives is considered Public Second Coming. However, St. Irenaeus’ quote next contradicts this since he uses Christ’s Coming in the clouds phrase to refer to only one Public Second Coming after the last Antichrist.

In fact, St. Irenaeus of Lyons clearly writes that there are only two advents of Christ namely, the first which is past and the “second” in the future and so 1 Thessalonians 4:17 must be in this time for him since he does not mention any Secret Coming of Christ as pre-tribulation believers teach (to attach 1 Thess 4:17 to it):

“and do not recognise the advent of Christ, which He accomplished for the salvation of men, nor are willing to understand that all the prophets announced His two advents: the one, indeed, in which He became a man subject to stripes, and knowing what it is to bear infirmity, Isaiah 53:3 and sat upon the foal of an ass, Zechariah 9:9 and was a stone rejected by the builders, and was led as a sheep to the slaughter, Isaiah 53:7 and by the stretching forth of His hands destroyed Amalek; Exodus 17:11 while He gathered from the ends of the earth into His Father’s fold the children who were scattered abroad, Isaiah 11:12 and remembered His own dead ones who had formerly fallen asleep, and came down to them that He might deliver them: but the second in which He will come on the clouds, Daniel 7:13 bringing on the day which burns as a furnace, Malachi 4:1 and smiting the earth with the word of His mouth, Isaiah 11:4 and slaying the impious with the breath of His lips, and having a fan in His hands, and cleansing His floor, and gathering the wheat indeed into His barn, but burning the chaff with unquenchable fire. Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17” [631]

1 Corinthians 15:52’s change from human to no more flesh and blood or gods occurs at the end of this 1000 years, i.e. after the times of the kingdom or last trumpet when all the remaining dead in the tombs are judged which is not for First Resurrection context:

This change from human to angelic is “gods” even in “theosis concept” in Orthodox theology or “Divinization concept” in general Christian theology. St. Irenaeus of Lyons writes regarding the Bride or Church as follows as he quotes the same Psalm 82’s prophecy context in a similar way as St. Justin of Rome as shown earlier.

“For we cast blame upon Him, because we have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods; although God has adopted this course out of His pure benevolence, that no one may impute to Him invidiousness or grudgingness. He declares, I have said, You are gods; and you are all sons of the Highest. But since we could not sustain the power of divinity, He adds, But you shall die like men, setting forth both truths — the kindness of His free gift, and our weakness, and also that we were possessed of power over ourselves. For after His great kindness He graciously conferred good [upon us], and made men like to Himself, [that is] in their own power; while at the same time by His prescience He knew the infirmity of human beings, and the consequences which would flow from it; but through [His] love and [His] power, He shall overcome the substance of created nature. For it was necessary, at first, that nature should be exhibited; then, after that, that what was mortal should be conquered and swallowed up by immortality, and the corruptible by incorruptibility, and that man should be made after the image and likeness of God, having received the knowledge of good and evil.” [634]

In his quote next, St. Irenaeus of Lyons uses the phrase translated into the kingdom of heaven when these are inherited by the Spirit which matches the Chiliasm Prophecy for 1 Corinthians 15:52’s “change in the twinkling of an eye prophecy” from sinless human (natural body) to “no more flesh and blood” into “celestial (heavenly) spiritual body” [635] and perhaps that’s why Revelation 21:9 describes the “Bride” descending from Heaven having been “translated” there at this time [636].

“For a living person inherits the goods of the deceased; and it is one thing to inherit, another to be inherited. … What, therefore, is it that lives? The Spirit of God, doubtless. What, again, are the possessions of the deceased? The various parts of the man, surely, which rot in the earth. But these are inherited by the Spirit when they are translated into the kingdom of heaven. For this cause, too, did Christ die, that the Gospel covenant being manifested and known to the whole world, might in the first place set free His slaves; and then afterwards, as I have already shown, might constitute them heirs of His property, when the Spirit possesses them by inheritance. For he who lives inherits, but the flesh is inherited. In order that we may not lose life by losing that Spirit which possesses us, the apostle, exhorting us to the communion of the Spirit, has said, according to reason, in those words already quoted, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Just as if he were to say, Do not err; for unless the Word of God dwell with, and the Spirit of the Father be in you, and if you shall live frivolously and carelessly as if you were this only, viz., mere flesh and blood, you cannot inherit the kingdom of God.” [637]

15.3 Tertullian

Who was he? Tertullian (c. 155 AD – c. 240 AD) is a Chiliasm Church Father who is honoured as the Father of Latin Christianity and is regarded as the Founder of Western Theological Scholarship for his immense writing and influence toward the Christianity in the Western world.

Note: For me, the earliest surviving writings of Christianity which mainly involves these Chiliasm church fathers, St. Irenaeus of Lyons, St. Justin of Rome and Tertullian seems to preserve the ancient faith most accurately and where they differ, these could be possibilities but I prefer St. Irenaeus of Lyons and St. Justin of Rome over Tertullian since even the Roman Catholics have noticed some errors in Tertullian such as Montanism and so he is not sainted.

Firstly, Tertullian also only seems to know of two comings of Christ (one is past and the other is a future public second coming in all glory) as follows:

Tertullian understands that 1 Thessalonians 4:17 refers to post-tribulation rapture at the start of the 1000 years Millennial Reign timeline after the time of the final antichrist (“beast”):

Tertullian views 1 Corinthians 15:52’s change from “sinless human body” to “no more flesh and blood” clearly at end of 1000 years and has the clearest description below:

“Of the heavenly kingdom this is the process. After its thousand years are over, within which period is completed the resurrection of the saints, who rise sooner or later according to their deserts there will ensue the destruction of the world and the conflagration of all things at the judgment: we shall then be changed in a moment into the substance of angels, even by the investiture of an incorruptible nature, and so be removed to that kingdom in heaven [640] … But the resurrection is one thing, and the kingdom is another. The resurrection is first, and afterwards the kingdom. We say, therefore, that the flesh rises again, but that when changed it obtains the kingdom. … and we shall be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye … in order, indeed, that it may be rendered a fit substance for the kingdom of God. “For we shall be like the angels.” This will be the perfect change of our flesh—only after its resurrection. … Having then become something else by its change, it will obtain the kingdom of God, no longer the (old) flesh and blood, but the body which God shall have given it. Rightly then does the apostle declare, “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;” for this (honour) does he ascribe to the changed condition which ensues on the resurrection.” [641]

15.4 St. Victorinus of Pettau

Who was he? St. Victorinus is a Chiliasm Church Father who was Bishop of Pettau and did the First and Oldest known Christian verse by verse Commentary on the Apocalypse of John or Book of Revelation. He died a martyr for Christ (c. 303 AD).

St. Victorinus also clearly writes that 1 Thessalonians 4:17 refers to the rapture when Christ Returns during the First Resurrection at start of 1000 years while the context of prophecy for 1 Corinthians 15:52’s “change” refers to a glory for Christians at the end of this 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ when the Second Resurrection occurs for the rest:

“2 At this same first resurrection … dead in Christ will stand first, then we who are living, as we will be taken up with Him in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord [1 Thessalonians 4:17]. A We have heard the trumpet spoken of; it is observed that in another place the Apostle names another trumpet. Therefore he says to the Corinthians: At the last trumpet, the dead will rise, will become immortal, and we will be changed. B He says the dead will be raised immortal for bearing punishments, but it is shown that we are to be changed and to be covered in glory. [1 Corinthians 15:52] Therefore where we hear “the last trumpet,” we must understand also a first, for these are two resurrections. Therefore, however many were not previously to rise in the first resurrection and to reign with Christ over the world [Revelation 20:4 – 6], over all nations, will rise at the last trumpet, after the thousand years, that is, in the last resurrection, among the impious and sinners and perpetrators of various kinds [Revelation 20:11 – 15].” [642]

15.5 St. Methodius of Olympus

Who was he? St. Methodius (died c. 311 AD) is a Chiliasm Church Father who was Bishop of Olympus first and then of Tyre. Not much details regarding his life is known. He was a martyr for Christ during the Diocletianic persecution. Only a small part of his numerous writing survives. The ‘Banquet of the Ten Virgins’ praises virginity. His treatise ‘On the Resurrection’ also survives where he confronted some of Origen’s thoughts. It is said that his work on Free Will is a defence of human liberty against the fatalism of the Gnostics.

St. Methodius of Olympus believes that 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is “Rapture” at start of the 1000 years when the “Festival of the First Resurrection” begins.

“VII. [Now the passage, The dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive, St. Methodius thus explains]: Those are our bodies; for the souls are we ourselves, who, rising, resume that which is dead from the earth; so that being caught up with them to meet the Lord, we may gloriously celebrate the splendid festival of the resurrection, because we have received our everlasting tabernacles, which shall no longer die nor be dissolved.” [643]

St. Methodius of Olympus believes that 1 Corinthians 15:52’s “Change” is at end of the 1000 years when the “Festival of the First Resurrection” ends and Second Resurrection begins and this “Change” is from “sinless human body” to “Angelic” or something heavenly [644].

“For I also, taking my journey, and going forth from the Egypt of this life, came first to the resurrection, which is the true Feast of the Tabernacles, and there having set up my tabernacle, adorned with the fruits of virtue, on the first day of the resurrection, which is the day of judgment, celebrate with Christ the millennium of rest, which is called the seventh day, even the true Sabbath. Then again from thence I, a follower of Jesus, who has entered into the heavens, Hebrews 4:14 as they also, after the rest of the Feast of Tabernacles, came into the laud of promise, come into the heavens, not continuing to remain in tabernacles — that is, my body not remaining as it was before, but, after the space of a thousand years, changed from a human and corruptible form into angelic size and beauty, where at last we virgins, when the festival of the resurrection is consummated, shall pass from the wonderful place of the tabernacle to greater and better things,” [645]

Interestingly, St. Justin of Rome (St. Justin Martyr) is attested to have written that the “flesh indeed dies” in the context of “kingdom of heaven” which can mean he is referring to the “change” from “human” to “no more flesh and blood” for those who will “inherit heaven” [646] and since this was quoted by St. Methodius of Olympus who described this part vividly earlier, it raises the question whether this quote was a rephrase from one of St. Justin of Rome’s lost writings.

15.6 Why do Christians need to be in Sinless Human Resurrection Body for 1000 years first before the Change into something Heavenly and no more (old) flesh and blood?

Notice that Christians need to be resurrected for 1000 years in a sinless human body first before the change to no more human to be repaid (recompense) or rewarded in it as both St. Irenaeus of Lyons and Tertullian give this same reasoning as follows:

“1. Inasmuch, therefore, as the opinions of certain [orthodox persons] are derived from heretical discourses, they are both ignorant of God’s dispensations, and of the mystery of the resurrection of the just, and of the [earthly] kingdom which is the commencement of incorruption, by means of which kingdom those who shall be worthy are accustomed gradually to partake of the divine nature (capere Deum ); and it is necessary to tell them respecting those things, that it behooves the righteous first to receive the promise of the inheritance which God promised to the fathers, and to reign in it, when they rise again to behold God in this creation which is renovated, and that the judgment should take place afterwards. For it is just that in that very creation in which they toiled or were afflicted, being proved in every way by suffering, they should receive the reward of their suffering; and that in the creation in which they were slain because of their love to God, in that they should be revived again; and that in the creation in which they endured servitude, in that they should reign. For God is rich in all things, and all things are His. It is fitting, therefore, that the creation itself, being restored to its primeval condition, should without restraint be under the dominion of the righteous; and the apostle has made this plain in the Epistle to the Romans.” [647]

“Chapter 25. … We say that this city has been provided by God for receiving the saints on their resurrection, and refreshing them with the abundance of all really spiritual blessings, as a recompense for those which in the world we have either despised or lost; since it is both just and God-worthy that His servants should have their joy in the place where they have also suffered affliction for His name’s sake. Of the heavenly kingdom this is the process. After its thousand years are over, within which period is completed the resurrection of the saints, who rise sooner or later according to their deserts there will ensue the destruction of the world and the conflagration of all things at the judgment: … when Abraham’s seed, after the primal promise of being like the sand of the sea for multitude, is destined likewise to an equality with the stars of heaven — are not these the indications both of an earthly and a heavenly dispensation?” [648]

Notice and compare that this is what both St. Justin of Rome and St. Irenaeus of Lyons understood as the meaning of “body, soul and spirit” [649] below where “flesh” is considered as referring to “body” too where all three makes a complete “man”:

“They do not take this fact into consideration, that there are three things out of which, as I have shown, the complete man is composed —flesh, soul, and spirit. One of these does indeed preserve and fashion [the man]—this is the spirit; while as to another it is united and formed—that is the flesh; then [comes] that which is between these two—that is the soul, which sometimes indeed, when it follows the spirit, is raised up by it, but sometimes it sympathizes with the flesh, and falls into carnal lusts.” [650]

“For the body is the house of the soul; and the soul the house of the spirit. These three, in all those who cherish a sincere hope and unquestioning faith in God, will be saved.” [651]

15.7 Conclusion

Why are all these important? Doctrinal accuracy shines in higher heavens level compared to lower stars level for converting many with lesser accuracy as Daniel 12:3 prophesies [652] and “Testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy” (Revelation 19:10, NKJV) [653] so having wrong or inaccurate prophecy may affect “wrong/inaccurate testimony” and thus all other ‘theological work’ may not be as important even if right (since “double honour” applies to ‘more accurate word/doctrine’ (implied) in 1 Timothy 5:17 [654]).

16. Did Christ imply Non Elect Salvation in Matthew 19?

St. John Chrysostom (c. 347 AD – c. 407 AD) wrote that “Charity Doctrine hits a higher mark than Virginity” [655] while correcting the error of some who thought that “fasting and prayer” is more important than “Almsgiving” where the opposite is true as he ranks the “choirs of virtue” as Christ does so in Bible Verses next too.

A main point is also what’s the point of being a virgin if one only lives for oneself and say did not live out the Charity Doctrine toward others? as Christ asked this to the potentially virgin rich young man who “kept all the Torah” as follows, Bible Verses:

“16Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[d] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17So He said to him, [e]“Why do you call Me good? [f]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” 20The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [g]from my youth. What do I still lack?” 21Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.” [656]

Comments:

1. Notice that Christ did not ask to keep “all” Torah for “Eternal Life” context.

2. When asked “which Commandments?” Christ did not quote all the 10 Commandments but only the last 6 Commandments which related to men. Is this the gateway for Non-Elect Salvation since the first 4 Commandments relating to God context is not mentioned by Christ? (Not doctrine but just an interesting thought). I mean if the first 4 is kept by a person, they’re considered Elect Salvation since these commands relate to God directly but Sabbath does not apply to Gentile believers [657]as even St. Augustine taught and all Protestant founders did not keep Sabbath nor considered Sunday Church service as Sabbath fulfilment either and that discussion would require a separate research paper (see pages 345 to 351 for Chiliasm quotes). I include some extensive discussion regarding Non Elect Salvation because it can be a direct consequence of this Chiliasm prophecy context if 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 are two events separated by 1000 years.

3. Notice that Christ also included the “love your neighbour as yourself” command [658] which is not a 10 Commandment meaning for “eternal life”, a non-10-Commandment is also required by Christ and its context was expanded to include “enemies level” in Christ’s own definition of Parable of Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25 – 37).

4. The rich young ruler said he kept all these Torah commands and asked Christ what he lacked to which Christ replied “Charity Doctrine to Following Him” meaning these are in addition to that and what makes the definition of “Elect Salvation” possibly?

5. Perhaps the Parable of the Good Samaritan [659] by Christ can refer to such non-elect salvation hope since Christ Himself Said that Samaritans “do not know God” [660] opening hope for such Samaritans who did Charity Doctrine toward their “enemies-Jews level” which can be analogous to a non-Christian doing Charity Doctrine to a Christian, right?

Perhaps these are the surprised sheep of the nations who seem to not know Christ as they ask back, “When did we see You Lord being hungry, thirsty, stranger, naked, sick and in prison?” but Christ knows them based on their Charity Doctrine deeds done toward “His Brethren” or Christians [661] and being righteous? [662] based on the 6 of the 10 Commandments relating to man as we saw comment 2 here earlier?

6. If this interpretation is true, then it’s not salvation by works for the “Non Elect Salvation” part either but rather that these may get a chance to believe after seeing Christ in the Spirit World.

7. I am writing this not to confuse you but to honestly present the deeper thoughts which arise when we map these verses to each other. Just like the unlearnt case requires such saved ones to see and believe in Lord Jesus Christ in the Spirit World, such “saved by fire” case ones of 1 Corinthians 3:15 also may refer to this class of “believing after seeing” case of John 6:29, 36, 40 [663] where Christ was only angry with the Jews for not believing Him even after seeing Him and His miracles and other works. The context of seeing the Risen Christ and then given a chance to believe is also evidenced in Apostle St. Thomas’ conversion too [664]. I put these thoughts out fully so that nothing remains hidden and we can contemplate these together.

8. Notice that Christ did not say that the Old Testament prophets was until Malachi but until John the Baptist [665] meaning it could include even these Deuterocanonical books such as “Wisdom of Solomon” and even “2 Esdras” which some of the Roman Catholics and Orthodox consider as Scripture in their Bible since all these happened between the time Malachi to John the Baptist.

9. Here’s another mystery: Christ may have celebrated “Hanukkah” (Feast of Dedication or the Festival of Lights or sometimes called the “Second Sukkot or 2^nd Feast of Tabernacles”) which is not a canonical Old Testament feast but was from “Judas Maccabees” during this same window period where it’s the writing relating to him that has the famous “purgatory” quote and “charity doctrine” for its judgments.

My point is if “Maccabees” was a “false prophet” or his “purgatory” belief false, then why Christ celebrated this “Hanukkah Feast due to this same Maccabees” as apostle St. John records? Personally, I find it difficult to say either way, so in light of such an evidence, I consider “purgatory” as a possibility too for “Non Elect Salvation”.

10. Here is that famous Purgatory quote from Maccabees:

“42Betook themselves unto prayer, and besought him that the sin committed might wholly be put out of remembrance. Besides, that noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forsomuch as they saw before their eyes the things that came to pass for the sins of those that were slain. 43And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachms of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: 44For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead. 45And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.” [666]

Notice that this is a “prayer for the dead” with Charity Doctrine and not a “prayer to the dead” which is found nowhere in Scripture. Next, here is the New Testament Bible verse for Christ potentially celebrating Hannukah (Feast of Dedication) due to this action of this same Maccabees who did the Purgatory prayers:

“22Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch.” [667]

Here’s a question to ponder: Why did Christ not correct this writing or comment on it since some of the Jews of his time were practicing this due to Maccabees’ writing, right?

Why are all these important? Doctrinal accuracy shines in higher heavens level compared to lower stars level for converting many as Daniel 12:3 prophesies [668] and Church Fathers taught likewise. There is another Bible verse which states “double honour” is only for those who are more accurate in “word and doctrine” literally [669] meaning other Christian ministries only come in with lesser honour even if done rightly. If non elect salvation possibility is wrong, I could shine in lesser glory than a person opposing it and vice versa among saved Christians. However, doctrinal accuracy involves a whole range of topics and practice and not just this single topic of non elect salvation possibility only. Hence, when we take into account all these we can say that we’re fulfilling the “Great Commission” fully because Christ did not just say “make disciples” (i.e. converts) but also Said in this same Bible Verse,

“20teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;” [670]

How about the famous scary warning verse found in the Book of Revelation below which was stated just after the Revelation 22:17 verse for which we just discussed its possibility earlier?

“17And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. 18[i]For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, [j]God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God[k] shall take away his part from the [l]Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” [671]

Firstly, this warning may be applied more generally to any “prophecy context” and that is why for example removing the “Chiliasm prophecy regarding the change from human to no more flesh and blood for 1 Corinthians 15:50 – 52’s context” which is testified by all the listed Church Fathers earlier could be dangerous. Similarly adding a “secret coming of Christ” (unless it turns out to be true) also can merit such dangerous level of judgments stated here especially in light of all the Church Fathers’ quotes which are presented in this book alone, right?

Regarding the “Non Elect Salvation Possibility”, doesn’t Revelation 22:17 literally seems to refer to it since the “Bride” (Church, Christians) seem to call to the “thirsty” (non-Bride, others) to partake the “Water of Life” freely at the end of time? Remember that you cannot partake of the water of life until a person is in their final sinless resurrection body and such ones seem to need “healing from the leaves of the Tree of Life” (Revelation 22:2 here) [672] which comes straight from Christ and God’s Throne at that time? Remember that in Chiliasm timeline, Christians already partook of the Water of Life 1000 years earlier [673] during the Millennial Reign First Resurrection timeline (which is before Judgment Day) and so it’s difficult to image any Christian still needing healing after 1000 years of bodily resurrection where this occurrence is happening after Judgment Day in the Final New Earth and Heavens?

Now, here’s the main point which may help me not to be judged at all even if my writing here turns out false regarding the non elect salvation possibility part: I presented it as an academic possibility with all these Church Father quotes and not as a doctrine and did not claim the Holy Spirit told me which would directly mean adding/removing from Scripture (if wrong).

In the final chapter of this writing, I discussed some details with Chiliasm Church Fathers St. Justin and St. Irenaeus while showing key differences between two types of “Water of Life” references found in Scripture. St. Irenaeus of Lyons warned that any direct adding to meaning of Scripture as “doctrine” (belief or practice) is the context of that scary warning of Revelation 22:18 – 19 below,

“Now, in the first place, it is loss to wander from the truth, and to imagine that as being the case which is not; then again, as there shall be no light punishment [inflicted] upon him who either adds or subtracts anything from the Scripture,[47024702 Rev. xxii. 19.] under that such a person must necessarily fall. Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number], when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must be guarded against.” [674]

Anyone who is wrong regarding any doctrinal point can come under the danger of these Bible verses in Revelation 22:18 – 19 which was specifically targeted for the contents of the Book of Revelation. Hence admitting that one is doing an academic study and concluding prophecy as a possibility and not doctrine when it is related to this Book of Revelation or Apocalypse of John especially even when dealing with unsure parts or due to difficult to interpret first Christianity quotes regarding prophecy and providing it with proof quotes and sources (as it is done in academics) seems honest enough to be forfeited of any error due to such level of responsibility instead of those who claimed “the Holy Spirit told me” but turned out wrong.

Please also notice that those who usually like to claim “the Holy Spirit told me” do such to the point that you cannot even reply back because it would seem to fight against the Holy Spirit and not them. Such ones can manipulate you to say give a pastoral title or recommendation for Bible school for making themselves a pastor to even getting a business opportunity or ministry job hire in Christian ministries (which is sometimes claimed that the Holy Spirit chose person so in so for the job just because they have similar doctrinal leanings) to even just plain money collection into their personal bank accounts in the name of “love offering for God” just because they do ministry which can all be “damned” unless the Holy Spirit really told them all these which we need not judge but just need to be aware of and leave it to God to judge each usage of His Holy Name because taking His Name in vain as I have pointed out breaks the 3^rd Greatest of the 10 Commandments far above murder or even adultery as the latter are 6^th and 7^th commandments respectively and relate to man and not God first directly.

Another common dangerous fallacy is that thinking that as long as one is converting a person to be a ‘Christian’ according to some denomination, it’s considered as noble or safe. New Testament traditions are discarded and such abandonments are encouraged in the name of converting souls to Christ by some. In the Bible, something like this happened and it’s the only time in Scripture that some people got “swallowed up alive into Hell” during that incident which is known as the “Rebellion of Korah”.

Apostle St. Jude warned of it for New Testament context:

“11Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.” [675]

In the original incident, Korah and the people who got swallowed up alive into Hell were “not sinners like adulterers nor of other types” but though holy in these aspects (as the Bible records that they were part of the ‘holy church attending congregation of the Lord’), they still had a fatal flaw, which is trying to make new rules for the Levitical priesthood as the Bible describes it as follows:

“1Now Korah the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, with Dathan and Abiram the sons of Eliab, and On the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men; 2and they rose up before Moses with some of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty leaders of the congregation, representatives of the congregation, men of renown. 3They gathered together against Moses and Aaron, and said to them, “You [a]take too much upon yourselves, for all the congregation is holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them. Why then do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the Lord?” … 10and that He has brought you near to Himself, you and all your brethren, the sons of Levi, with you? And are you seeking the priesthood also? 11Therefore you and all your company are gathered together against the Lord. And what is Aaron that you complain against him?” [676]

I mean this “holy Korah” and gang’s only sin recorded in Scripture which brought them “straight to Hell alive” with no chance of repentance even was “trying to help with Church ministry of doing some priesthood work” as the Bible reveals vividly below:

“28And Moses said: “By this you shall know that the Lord has sent me to do all these works, for I have not done them of my own will. 29If these men die naturally like all men, or if they are visited by the common fate of all men, then the Lord has not sent me. 30But if the Lord creates a new thing, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the pit, then you will understand that these men have rejected the Lord.”31Now it came to pass, as he finished speaking all these words, that the ground split apart under them, 32and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households and all the men with Korah, with all their goods. 33So they and all those with them went down alive into the pit; the earth closed over them, and they perished from among the assembly. 34Then all Israel who were around them fled at their cry, for they said, “Lest the earth swallow us up also!” 35And a fire came out from the Lord and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering incense.” [677]

The key understanding the seriousness of any sin or doctrinal error is revealed by Moses in verse 28 above which is “doing God’s Will” versus “doing own will”. So since written Scripture reveals God’s Will, doing anything against New Testament traditions even may be “risky” and that’s why I don’t subscribe to such practices of modern Churches when they disobey a certain New Testament verse even if they claim “the Holy Spirit told them so” to be safe Scripturally.

Verse 29 earlier also means if we die poor, in an accident or with a heart attack as per common fate for all men, we are still not false. I don’t believe in any unwritten traditions practiced by Catholic and Orthodox Church since it’s written in the Bible not to go beyond “Written Scripture” [678].

Some early Christian writings which I consider are not found in a 66 protestant Bible book but are usually Scripture in some significant early Christianity and best is, I consider them as a possibility only and not doctrine risking no one’s faith in the process.

For example, St. Clement of Rome basically states that doctrinal accuracy may not always be found in the majority and a person who leaves a Church because of that will attain to great honour and glory in the Lord provided he turned out right which is even mentioned by St. Irenaeus of Lyons as an authentic tradition from the apostles [679]referring to this writing next containing this verse which almost sounds like a prophecy and states that sometimes the person who leaves the church could be more accurate doctrinally despite the ruling of the majority.

This is a clear proof of freewill practice which God has allowed even in the area of doctrinal accuracy in a Church agreeing to Christ [680]. St. Clement of Rome writes,

“Who then among you is noble-minded? Who compassionate? Who full of love? Let him declare, If on my account sedition and disagreement and schisms have arisen, I will depart, I will go away wherever ye desire, and I will do whatever the majority commands; only let the flock of Christ live on terms of peace with the presbyters set over it. He that acts thus shall procure to himself great glory in the Lord; and every place will welcome him. For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof. These things they who live a godly life that is never to be repented of, both have done and always will do.” [681]

Now, we know that Apostles and Prophets have zero prophecy error according to say Deuteronomy 18:20 – 22 and that Jeremiah 23:36 allows prophecy error if one claimed it’s one’s own attempt (example in an academic PHD) but if one claims Prophecy from the LORD directly, an error merits some type of eternal condemnation/judgment as contrasted in Jeremiah 23:37 – 40. So we need to avoid risky prophecy claims.

Here’s a closing thought to ponder: You may have heard of some self-styled prophet Z claiming that God told you to marry person A or take a job with company B or choose person C into full time paid ministry job into your Church or hire person D into your business organisation or government job posting with good salary etc.

My point is if that same prophet Z did not know about 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:50 – 52 as two different prophecies separated by 1000 years but all these while preached them as referring to only the “rapture” event (assuming the Chiliasm Prophecy position presented in this book turns out to be true on Judgment Day), then how is the Most Blessed Holy Spirit of God Speaking through any such prophets even since He does not even make one mistake?

So, all these proves human freewill (governed by God’s Will) so that a fair choice is made by each person and everyone is accountable for their actions and words (including me).

For example, if the evangelism and great numbers of the Catholics and Orthodox who pray to Virgin Mary (about 60% of Christianity today and much more in past history [682]) counts lesser in value and more risky than protestant conversions (about 40% of Christianity to date), then similarly within Protestantism, those more accurate doctrinally may be lesser in numbers likewise which affects heavenly gradation beyond being saved as Christ Said,

“19Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.” [683]

“23but others save [k]with fear, pulling them out of the [l]fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.” [684]

17. Two Water of Life References Separated by 1000 years?

In Scripture, there seems to be two Water of Life References which are separated by 1000 years Apart in Chiliasm Timeline. Please compare:

1) Christians when resurrected in sinless human body get the Water of Life at the start of the 1000 years (Millennial) Reign of Christ when He Returns to begin the Marriage of the Lamb after His Second Coming during the First Resurrection which happens in this current (restored) Old Earth* and current Old Heavens

“9After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying: “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom, Thanksgiving and honor and power and might, Be to our God forever and ever. Amen.” 13Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” 14And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” [685]

*Example Verse which proves mortals (sinners) living alongside resurrected Christian immortals at that time is Isaiah 65:17, 20 [686]during the Millennial Reign meaning this must thus happen on current “Old” earth only since it can still be touched by those in sin while the final “New” Earth in comparison cannot be touched by sin at all. But doesn’t Isaiah 65:17 say this is to happen on “new earth/heavens” and not on “old earth/heavens”?

This is because the context of the Isaiah prophecy is talking about a “renewed” old earth and not the final new earth/heavens [687] (Revelation 21:1 – 3) and this I learnt from St. Justin of Rome who quotes Isaiah 65:17 in this way:

Notice that the renewed earth during the Millennial Reign still has a literal “sea” (Ezekiel 47:7 – 12) but the “final new Earth” does not have any sea in comparison (Revelation 21:1). Also, the “Tree of Life” comparison seems to be similar where one way to see it is that the “allegorical” happens first during the Millennial Reign before the literal happens in the final new earth. All these “differences” found within the Verses which describe these majestic events seem to indicate “two types” (allegorical first on old earth/heavens vs literal later on final earth/heavens) that are separated by 1000 years as per Chiliasm timeline.

As usual, I am not saying that my interpretation here must be right but I present the evidence how this can be so agreeing with the explanations given in earlier sections so that they match instead of producing an irreversible contradiction.

Under this arrangement of verses, let’s look at the Bible Verses which could describe the 2nd occurrence of “Water of Life” context as follows (remember that in Chiliasm prophecy discussed in earlier pages, Christians are already changed into no more human, i.e. no more flesh and blood into something angelic via the “Marriage of the Lamb” sharing “One Flesh” with him at the end of this 1000 years when the 2nd Resurrection begins and so may not need this “Water of Life” since they are not having a human body anymore and with that “glorious body” [One Flesh with Christ] they can partake of Life directly from Him. Perhaps the sinless resurrected human body can only partake of His Life via the “Water of Life” and that’s why for 1000 years Christians needed that way too as described in Verses in Revelation 7 earlier).

2) Some non – Christians may be invited to partake the Water of Life as they are cheered on at that future time by the “Bride” (Christians/Overcomers with crowns) in comparison which is after Judgment Day on Final New Earth and Final New Heavens since the results of the Book of Life are already revealed.

” 1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. … 1And he showed me a [a]pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever. … 17And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.” [689]

This description of the final scene in the last chapter of the Bible may be describing Elect vs Non Elect salvation as follows:

i) Elect Salvation (called the “Bride” because only these participated in the first resurrection and marriage of the Lamb. Compare with Matthew 25:1 – 13).

“17And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!””

ii) Non Elect Salvation for Israel (called “Servants” only even in this final scene. Compare with Matthew 25:14 – 30).

“3And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads.”

iii) Non Elect Salvation for Gentiles (called the “Thirsty” ones during this final scene. Compare with Matthew 25:31 – 46).

“17And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.”

3) Next, I will present the “evidence” of Bible Verses and Chiliasm Church Father quotes from St. Justin of Rome and St. Irenaeus of Lyons for both the “Water of Life” and “Tree of Life” context to show that possibly there are two different types of these occurring 1000 years apart (one on the old earth/heavens while the latter on the final new earth/heavens). It is to be noted that that their quotes seem to focus more on the “Tree of Life” context toward the Millennial Reign first resurrection timeline. Notice that Christians need to be resurrected for 1000 years in a sinless human body first before the change to no more human to be repaid (recompense) or rewarded in it as both St. Irenaeus of Lyons and Tertullian give this same reasoning as follows:

“1. Inasmuch, therefore, as the opinions of certain [orthodox persons] are derived from heretical discourses, they are both ignorant of God’s dispensations, and of the mystery of the resurrection of the just, and of the [earthly] kingdom which is the commencement of incorruption, by means of which kingdom those who shall be worthy are accustomed gradually to partake of the divine nature (capere Deum ); and it is necessary to tell them respecting those things, that it behooves the righteous first to receive the promise of the inheritance which God promised to the fathers, and to reign in it, when they rise again to behold God in this creation which is renovated, and that the judgment should take place afterwards. For it is just that in that very creation in which they toiled or were afflicted, being proved in every way by suffering, they should receive the reward of their suffering; and that in the creation in which they were slain because of their love to God, in that they should be revived again; and that in the creation in which they endured servitude, in that they should reign. For God is rich in all things, and all things are His. It is fitting, therefore, that the creation itself, being restored to its primeval condition, should without restraint be under the dominion of the righteous; and the apostle has made this plain in the Epistle to the Romans.” [690]

“Chapter 25. … We say that this city has been provided by God for receiving the saints on their resurrection, and refreshing them with the abundance of all really spiritual blessings, as a recompense for those which in the world we have either despised or lost; since it is both just and God-worthy that His servants should have their joy in the place where they have also suffered affliction for His name’s sake. Of the heavenly kingdom this is the process. After its thousand years are over, within which period is completed the resurrection of the saints, who rise sooner or later according to their deserts there will ensue the destruction of the world and the conflagration of all things at the judgment: we shall then be changed in a moment into the substance of angels, even by the investiture of an incorruptible nature, and so be removed to that kingdom in heaven … when Abraham’s seed, after the primal promise of being like the sand of the sea for multitude, is destined likewise to an equality with the stars of heaven — are not these the indications both of an earthly and a heavenly dispensation?” [691]

4) St. Irenaeus of Lyons mentions that the “direct disciples of the Apostles” such as “St. Papias of Hierapolis” taught a literal Chiliasm bodily resurrection for all Christians in a renewed old earth which produces various kinds of food and also that the animals cease to be carnivores in His Holy Mountain literally while the allegorical meanings of these passages such as this can refer to the repentance and taming of the wild Gentile habits to be true simultaneously revealing the two fold depth of Scriptural interpretation (I repeat, both true) in his quote next:

“The predicted blessing, therefore, belongs unquestionably to the times of the kingdom, when the righteous shall bear rule upon their rising from the dead; when also the creation, having been renovated and set free, shall fructify with an abundance of all kinds of food, from the dew of heaven, and from the fertility of the earth: as the elders who saw John, the disciple of the Lord, related that they had heard from him how the Lord used to teach in regard to these times, and say: The days will come, in which vines shall grow, each having ten thousand branches, and in each branch ten thousand twigs, and in each true twig ten thousand shoots, and in each one of the shoots ten thousand clusters, and on every one of the clusters ten thousand grapes, and every grape when pressed will give five and twenty metretes of wine. And when any one of the saints shall lay hold of a cluster, another shall cry out, I am a better cluster, take me; bless the Lord through me. In like manner [the Lord declared] that a grain of wheat would produce ten thousand ears, and that every ear should have ten thousand grains, and every grain would yield ten pounds (quinque bilibres) of clear, pure, fine flour; and that all other fruit-bearing trees, and seeds and grass, would produce in similar proportions (secundum congruentiam iis consequentem); and that all animals feeding [only] on the productions of the earth, should [in those days] become peaceful and harmonious among each other, and be in perfect subjection to man.

4. And these things are borne witness to in writing by Papias, the hearer of John, and a companion of Polycarp, in his fourth book; for there were five books compiled (συντεταγμένα) by him. And he says in addition, Now these things are credible to believers. And he says that, when the traitor Judas did not give credit to them, and put the question, ‘How then can things about to bring forth so abundantly be wrought by the Lord.’ the Lord declared, ‘They who shall come to these [times] shall see.’ When prophesying of these times, therefore, Esaias says: The wolf also shall feed with the lamb, and the leopard shall take his rest with the kid; the calf also, and the bull, and the lion shall eat together; and a little boy shall lead them. The ox and the bear shall feed together, and their young ones shall agree together; and the lion shall eat straw as well as the ox. And the infant boy shall thrust his hand into the asp’s den, into the nest also of the adder’s brood; and they shall do no harm, nor have power to hurt anything in my holy mountain. And again he says, in recapitulation, Wolves and lambs shall then browse together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and the serpent earth as if it were bread; and they shall neither hurt nor annoy anything in my holy mountain, says the Lord. Isaiah 40:6, etc. I am quite aware that some persons endeavour to refer these words to the case of savage men, both of different nations and various habits, who come to believe, and when they have believed, act in harmony with the righteous. But although this is [true] now with regard to some men coming from various nations to the harmony of the faith, nevertheless in the resurrection of the just [the words shall also apply] to those animals mentioned. For God is rich in all things. And it is right that when the creation is restored, all the animals should obey and be in subjection to man, and revert to the food originally given by God (for they had been originally subjected in obedience to Adam), that is, the productions of the earth. But some other occasion, and not the present, is [to be sought] for showing that the lion shall [then] feed on straw. And this indicates the large size and rich quality of the fruits. For if that animal, the lion, feeds upon straw [at that period], of what a quality must the wheat itself be whose straw shall serve as suitable food for lions?” [692]

Please also notice carefully that the only one who clearly doubted the literal aspect of this Chiliasm Prophecy was none other than the traitor Judas to whom Christ replied as follows:

“when the traitor Judas did not give credit to them, and put the question, ‘How then can things about to bring forth so abundantly be wrought by the Lord.’ the Lord declared, ‘They who shall come to these [times] shall see.’”

5) After Christ has returned and destroyed the Antichrist/Beast, the first resurrection occurs and the millennial reign with Christians begins with an ‘earthly Jerusalem Temple’ which will be ‘rebuilt’ for the ‘sinners/mortal Israelites who still dwell on earth’ [693].

“But in the times of the kingdom, the earth has been called again by Christ [to its pristine condition], and Jerusalem rebuilt after the pattern of the Jerusalem above, of which the prophet Isaiah says, “Behold, I have depicted thy walls upon my hands, and thou art always in my sight,” And the apostle, too, writing to the Galatians, says in like manner, “But the Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.” He does not say this with any thought of an erratic Aeon, or of any other power which departed from the Pleroma, or of Prunicus, but of the Jerusalem which has been delineated on [God’s] hands. And in the Apocalypse John saw this new [Jerusalem] descending upon the new earth.” [694]

i) Here is St. Justin of Rome’s quote describing the “long life” which even mortals have during the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ quoting even Isaiah 65:20 to happen at this time:

“For Isaiah spoke thus concerning this space of a thousand years: For there shall be the new heaven and the new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, or come into their heart; but they shall find joy and gladness in it, which things I create. For, Behold, I make Jerusalem a rejoicing, and My people a joy; and I shall rejoice over Jerusalem, and be glad over My people. And the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, or the voice of crying. And there shall be no more there a person of immature years, or an old man who shall not fulfil his days. For the young man shall be an hundred years old; but the sinner who dies an hundred years old, he shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and shall themselves inhabit them; and they shall plant vines, and shall themselves eat the produce of them, and drink the wine. They shall not build, and others inhabit; they shall not plant, and others eat. For according to the days of the tree of life shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound. Mine elect shall not toil fruitlessly, or beget children to be cursed; for they shall be a seed righteous and blessed by the Lord, and their offspring with them. And it shall come to pass, that before they call I will hear; while they are still speaking, I shall say, What is it? Then shall the wolves and the lambs feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox; but the serpent [shall eat] earth as bread. They shall not hurt or maltreat each other on the holy mountain, says the Lord.

Now we have understood that the expression used among these words, ‘According to the days of the tree [of life] shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound’ obscurely predicts a thousand years. For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, ‘They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.’ Luke 20:35″ [695]

ii) Here is St. Irenaeus of Lyons’ quote for Isaiah 65:20 to happen at this same time (first resurrection and millennium) and how all Christians (“disciples of the Lord”) are “priests” or Bride (Church) from heaven [696]meaning a non-priest among the “nations who are saved” [697] who are mentioned differently could be non elect salvation possibly, right?

“Now, in the preceding book I have shown that all the disciples of the Lord are Levites and priests, they who used in the temple to profane the Sabbath, but are blameless. Matthew 12:5 Promises of such a nature, therefore, do indicate in the clearest manner the feasting of that creation in the kingdom of the righteous, which God promises that He will Himself serve.

4. Then again, speaking of Jerusalem, and of Him reigning there, Isaiah declares, Thus says the Lord, Happy is he who has seed in Zion, and servants in Jerusalem. Behold, a righteous king shall reign, and princes shall rule with judgment. Isaiah 31:9, Isaiah 32:1 And with regard to the foundation on which it shall be rebuilt, he says: Behold, I will lay in order for you a carbuncle stone, and sapphire for your foundations; and I will lay your ramparts with jasper, and your gates with crystal, and your wall with choice stones: and all your children shall be taught of God, and great shall be the peace of your children; and in righteousness shall you be built up. Isaiah 54:11-14 And yet again does he say the same thing: Behold, I make Jerusalem a rejoicing, and my people [a joy]; for the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. Also there shall not be there any immature [one], nor an old man who does not fulfil his time: for the youth shall be of a hundred years; and the sinner shall die a hundred years old, yet shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and inhabit them themselves; and shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them themselves, and shall drink wine. And they shall not build, and others inhabit; neither shall they prepare the vineyard, and others eat. For as the days of the tree of life shall be the days of the people in you; for the works of their hands shall endure. Isaiah 65:18” [698]

Comparison of “Water of Life and Tree of Life” aspects for Chiliasm Prophecy Timeline to show two occurrences possibly 1000 years apart via differences in various traits shown next.

Water/Tree of Life Bible Verses at start of 1000 years Millennial Reign for Christians in human sinless resurrection body (Elect Salvation) during First Resurrection but changed to no more human into angelic at end of this 1000 years when Marriage of Lamb is completed in Old Earth/Heavens.	Water/Tree of Life Bible Verses at end of 1000 years Millennial Reign for non-Christians including fallen Christians in human sinless resurrection body (non-Elect Salvation) during the Second Resurrection in New Earth/Heavens (if this interpretation is true).
i) Christians partake of the Water of Life immediately after the final great tribulation and first resurrection on the old earth. “5Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to [c]living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” (Revelation 7:15 – 17, NKJV) ii) River of Life allegorical fulfilment during the Millennial reign includes usage by mere mortals and so cannot be referring to the final one. “12Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine.” (Ezekiel 47:12, NKJV) iii) There is a literal sea with fishes in it when this allegorical fulfilment of the Water of Life happens during the millennium. “When it reaches the sea, its waters are healed. 9And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever [c]the rivers go, will live. There will be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters go there; for they will be healed, and everything will live wherever the river goes. 10It shall be that fishermen will stand by it from En Gedi to En Eglaim; they will be places for spreading their nets. Their fish will be of the same kinds as the fish of the Great Sea, exceedingly many. 11But its swamps and marshes will not be healed; they will be given over to salt.” (Ezekiel 47:8 – 11, NKJV) iv) A literal moon and sun still exists during the millennial reign of Christ. “Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.” (Isaiah 24:23, KJV) v) Sinners/Mortals exists during the millennium meaning it is still affected by sin and so it is before great white throne judgment day. “There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. …” (Isaiah 65:20, KJV) “4And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. … 8And in that day it shall be That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, Half of them toward [e]the eastern sea And half of them toward [f]the western sea; In both summer and winter it shall occur. 9And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be— “The Lord is one,” And His name one. … 16And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.” (Zechariah 14: 4, 8 – 9, 16 – 18, NKJV) vi) One last rebellion of mortals/sinners is at end of this 1000 years who are destroyed by heavenly fire (Revelation 20:7 – 10) and after that “Lake of Fire” Judgment Day begins. “7Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” (Revelation 20:7 – 10, NKJV)	i) The recipients of for the Water of Life here are after book of life results are revealed and on the final new earth and heavens. “1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea … 5Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said [b]to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.” 6And He said to me, “It[c] is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7He who overcomes [d]shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8But the cowardly, [e]unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” … 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the [h]great city, the [i]holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, … 22But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine [l]in it, for the [m]glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24And the nations [n]of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it.” (Revelation 21:1, 5 – 8, 10, 22 – 26, NKJV) ii) Even Christians (the “Bride”) seem to call to some “others” to partake of the “Water of Life” freely toward the “Thirsty” at that final time and via the “freewill” choice of “Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely” and the “leaves of the Tree of Life” are used for final “healing” of “nations who are saved” (possibly due to being “saved by fire” of 1 Corinthians 3:15 case) while the rest are damned. “1And he showed me a [a]pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. … 17And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.” (Revelation 22:1 – 3, 17, NKJV) iii) Second resurrection only happens at the end of 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ. No final judgment of any sinners or wicked occurs earlier since they need to be in their final resurrection bodies first. “4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.” (Revelation 20:4 – 6, NKJV)
Comparison details highlighted further.
1) “… When it reaches the sea, its waters are healed … very great multitude of fish, because these waters go there; …” (Ezekiel 47:8 – 9, NKJV) = Literal sea still existing on old earth.	1) “… 1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea ….” (Revelation 21:1, NKJV) = The final new earth has no more sea.
2) “… 15Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple …” (Revelation 7:15, NKJV) = Temple still existing in this Old Earth/Old Heavens.	2) “… 22But I saw no temple in it, …” (Revelation 21:22, NKJV) = No temple in the final New Earth/New Heavens nor in the final new heavenly Jerusalem city.
3) “… and serve Him day and night in His temple. …” (Revelation 7:15, NKJV) = Night exists in this earthly Jerusalem city.	3) “… 5There shall be no night there …” (Revelation 21:5, NKJV) = No night in the final new heavenly Jerusalem city.
4) “… Moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed …” (Isaiah 24:23, KJV) = Sun and moon still existing during the millennium.	4) “… 23The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine …” (Revelation 21:23, NKJV) = No sun nor moon in the final new heavenly Jerusalem city.
5) “… LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem …” (Isaiah 24:23, KJV) = Heavenly mount Zion contrasted against earthly Jerusalem during the millennial reign.	5) “… showed me the [h]great city, the [i]holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, …” (Revelation 21:10, NKJV) = Final new Heavenly Jerusalem city context.
6) “… bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food …Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine …” (Ezekiel 47:12, NKJV) = Earthly Tree/Water of Life used by mortals of millennial reign (allegory, not the real one).	6) “… The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. … And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. …” (Revelation 22:2, 17, NKJV) = Heavenly Tree/Water of Life only to be applied to final sinless resurrection body.
7) “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” (Revelation 2:7, NKJV) = Only Christians (the “Churches/Overcomers”) can eat of the “fruit” of the Tree of Life probably because they have celestial heavenly body so can partake of it in the Paradise of God (heaven zone).	7) “… nations of those who are saved … The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. …” (Revelation 21:24, 22:2, NKJV) = The saved nations seem to only be able to partake of the “leaves” (not fruit) of the Tree of Life for “healing” probably due to having only an earthly or terrestrial final resurrection body in comparison.
8) “14Blessed are those who [g]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15[h]But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” (Revelation 22:14 – 16, NKJV) Notice that only those who do His Commandments get the right to go past the “gates” into the “city” referring to the final new Jerusalem (lowest heaven which descends and connects to the final earth in the final scene) while those outside can refer to sinners where some could be saved by fire and require the healing of the leaves of the tree of life.	8) “Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—” (Genesis 3:22, NKJV) Notice that the Tree of Life cannot be applied to any sinful human body but only to a final sinless resurrection body meaning those “saved nations” partaking the “leaves of the Tree of Life” for “healing” earlier cannot be referring to the Millennial reign timeline of “sinners/mortals” but those of the final scene after book of life results are revealed too and these could be “saved by fire” (1 Corinthians 3:15 with Daniel 12:10) and hence require “healing” post-Judgment to be “saved”.
9) “11For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.” (1 Corinthians 3:11 – 14, NKJV) 1 Corinthians 3:14 reveals the case with reward so seems to match Revelation 22:14 here for those entering heaven.	9) “15If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” (1 Corinthians 3:15, NKJV) 1 Corinthians 3:15 seems to be a case with no reward but just “saved by fire” in comparison so could be one of the sinners mentioned to be “outside” in Revelation 22:15 and require “healing” from “leaves” of Tree of Life as Revelation 22:2 means to be part of “nations who are saved” but do not enter heaven on that final earth (Revelation 21:24 – 27) and could not go pass its gates.
10) “… That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, … 16And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations …17And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain …” (Zechariah 14: 8, 16, 17, NKJV) = Mortal (Sinners) exist on earth during Millennial reign “Water of Life” timeline and notice that the Lake of Fire Judgment has not happened yet (indicating which timeline). Notice that the mortals partake of the allegorical water of life while Christians partake of the real Water of Life during the millennium because only those of first resurrection (His Bride) are in sinless human resurrection body at that time.	10) “… I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7He who overcomes [d]shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8But the cowardly, [e]unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:1, 6 – 8, NKJV) = Nor mortal nor sinners mentioned among the partakers of the actual Water/Tree of Life on the final new earth timeline when the Lake of Fire results have been revealed. Notice that the source of the Water/Tree of Life is Christ in Revelation 22:1 – 2 and that’s how probably a newly saved resurrected sinless human body can partake of His Resurrection and Life via that medium.
11) “11Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. … 19And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.” (Revelation 19:11, 19 – 21, NKJV) = Notice that the “Beast” (Last Antichrist) and “false prophet” are cast “alive” into the Lake of Fire after Christ’s Second Coming and immediately after this the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ begins with the First Resurrection as the next chapter in Revelation 20:1 – 6 shows.	11) “1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.” (Revelation 20:1 – 3, NKJV) = Notice that during the “1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ, Satan is locked in the bottomless pit” meaning it cannot be now (as non-Chiliasm positions err allegorically) and this only happens after the Second Coming of Christ has occurred with only the “Beast” (Antichrist) and “False Prophet” cast into the Lake of Fire first. Yes, notice that Satan is not cast into the Lake of Fire during the 1000 years Millennium itself contradicts many modern positions which claim that Judgment Day occurs immediately after the Second Coming of Christ.
12) “11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:11 – 15, NKJV) = When compared with Verses in Revelation 20:1 – 6 and Revelation 20:7 – 10, we see clearly that great white throne Judgment Day only occurs at the end of this 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ which is the Chiliasm Timeline Prophecy position.	12) “7Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” = One last rebellion by Satan is allowed at the end of the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ but this time fire from heaven devours the enemies and Judgment Day follows next. Notice how the Bible clearly describes that Satan only joins the “Beast” (last Antichrist) and “false prophet” in the “Lake of Fire” during this end of 1000 years meaning both the “Antichrist and false prophet” have been burning for 1000 years already.

Why is accuracy in prophecy important?

“10 … Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” [699]

Conclusion

Whenever I am not putting any Chiliasm Church Father quote when a Bible verse is listed for any of the discussion in the chapters presented, it is because I cannot find a direct quote from them. I always endeavour to show any Chiliasm Church Father quote for the Bible verse at hand to avoid doing any private interpretation of prophecy [700].

I add my interpolations which could be new discoveries unless someone else has published in journals likewise with same words or equivalent meanings which in turn could be a nice coincidence since I did not plagiarize anyone nor copy but just did Original Research.

The other part of my discussions prior just involve well known facts from these same Church Fathers or in regard to Biblical interpretations for the parts which agrees to popular theology according to some denominations as well (e.g. post-tribulation rapture support arguments from the Reformed).

Some of these possible new discoveries via interpolation by myself could include:

Two types of final saved resurrection bodies with glory, one heavenly (Elect) and the other earthly (Non Elect) [701].

Two water of life references or groups partaking of it are separated by 1000 years (i.e. the Elect at start of 1000 years while the Non Elect at end of this Millennial Reign of Christ Timeline which is the Last Day/Sabbath) [702]. For example, could Isaiah 49:9 – 10 be referring to some of those in “darkness and prison” (indicating punished ones from the Spirit World first) be shown “Mercy” to have “limited access” on the final earth to “feed along the roads, And their pastures shall be on all desolate heights” who could be given the ‘Water of Life’ too [703] as they “shall neither hunger nor thirst” since by “springs of water He will guide them” indicating “Non Elect Salvation”? which are given at the end of this Millennial Reign of Christ? [704]

Parabolic view of John 5’s keywords such as “hour now is” referring to “start of the Millennium” while “hour is coming” refers to “end of the Millennium” where the “Millennial Reign of Christ” lasts 1000 years and is called the “Last Day”. The term “hour” refers to a subset of “day” and “now is” is “start” while “is coming” is “end” [705].

Non Elect Salvation possibility for those enduring Christ’s “Judgment till the last penny Bible verses” since the Catholics themselves can demonstrate that many of the Church Fathers point to such verses as referring to someone saved rather than unsaved after some type of Spirit World Judgments which became the basis for their doctrine of purgatory [706]. A key difference is I point for example that Matthew 18 calls such a person as “Wicked Servant” where the word wicked seems to contradict their position that this refers to those of ‘lighter sins holy Catholics’ type but Christ called such ones as “wicked”. A “wicked servant” gets the same as an “unbeliever” according to Luke 12:46, right? So the interpolation here is natural that some of the unbelievers too may likewise be saved after Spirit World Judgment if God Wills it. I even show the “Shadow of Death” Bible verses could refer to Non Elect Salvation for some in the “Spirit World”.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (“Rapture verse”) and 1 Corinthians 15:52 (“Twinkling of an Eye Bodily Change” Verse) are two separate events separated by 1000 years, the former at start of Millennium while the latter at end of Millennial Reign of Christ [707].

Three categories of men (righteous, sinners and wicked) [708] instead of two categories of men (righteous versus wicked) only implying possibly righteous to be saved in the final heavens zone as referring to any Christian who will be in the “Wedding” of the Lamb context [709], sinners being saved in the final new earth zone while the wicked unsaved in the Lake of Fire in comparison.

In light of Non Elect Salvation possibility, I also present whether Christ’s Reply in Matthew 19 can be viewed as presenting Elect vs Non-Elect Salvation. The interpolation here is whether keeping the “last” 6 Commandments relating to man merits Non Elect Salvation while in addition to that, keeping the remaining “first” 4 Commandments (except Sabbath which is not necessary for Gentile believers either as shown in this book) will merit the fruit for Elect Salvation in comparison. In other Bible Verses where Christ quotes statements such as Love God and Love your neighbour as yourself, these could be referring exclusively for Elect Salvation only because the person is able to receive them or is “not far from the Kingdom of God (Heaven level)” [710].

I mean in Matthew 19, the rich man did walk away sorrowful since he couldn’t obey Christ’s “follow Me” part which involved “Charity Doctrine” as well so perhaps that’s why Christ in His Foreknowledge gave a two-fold reply implying a Non Elect Salvation requirement first before inviting that rich man to the higher Elect Salvation requirement for entrance into life [711]. This is not salvation by works but the level and gradation of Salvation which is based on how much one could follow Christ’s Commands here via believing after seeing possibility too as detailed out in the earlier books [712].

Book of 1Enoch’s prophecy viewed as referring to Judgment Day instead of earlier scholars viewing it as some time of commencement of the Millenium context by arguing that the “change” prophecy also listed here in Chiliasm context happens at the end of the 1000 years instead of the start of it. Also sinners are only judged in bodily resurrection during the second resurrection timeline so this hope for Non Elect Salvation since it refers to a Salvation without honour (as Elect Salvation is with “glory” as compared in these verses itself) is evident clearly from this text [713] (if preserved true).

Shepherd of Hermas possible Scripture writing viewed differently than traditional Catholic or Orthodox view especially in the context of Non Elect Salvation to refer to a salvation outside the Tower meaning “outside heaven” so possibly on final New Earth and that it extends even to unbelievers since it includes those who have heard the Gospel and wish to be baptized but remain unbaptised and regress into their wicked sins (meaning this is not the unlearnt case or equivalent either) [714]. A key point of argument is also Tertullian’s reply to Bishop of Rome, Pope St. Callixtus I at that time where he affirms the Non Elect Salvation portion of the Shepherd of Hermas to be true since it favours adulterers and so it’s difficult for any believer to digest (which is only implied in the aforementioned Shepherd of Hermas section for Non Elect Salvation for in other parts the judgment for Eternal Hell/Annihilation is clearly expressed) meaning this section must be preserved as it is since Tertullian’s time as well [715].

1 Corinthians 3:15’s “saved by fire” as possible Non Elect Salvation case argued differently from any previously known traditional way by doing “mapping” where this Verse is mapped to the three harvests of the Gospel in Matthew 13:8 (thirtyfold, sixtyfold or hundredfold) which are “reward” levels (e.g. Matthew 19:29 mentions definition for “hundredfold” reward) implying that any Christian who must be one of these three harvests are then referring to 1 Corinthians 3:14’s reward case instead. This opens the possibility that 1 Corinthians 3:15’s “saved by fire” case as referring to someone with “no” reward at all hence cannot be even the lowest thirtyfold reward level of a Christian, right? [716] I also mapped these verses to Matthew 3:11 – 12’s context with Chiliasm Church Father quotes to try study the accurate meaning of “Baptism by Fire”.

New way for viewing Revelation 21 (second last chapter in the Bible) as referring to Elect Salvation, Non Elect Salvation and the Damned instead of the prevalent way of viewing it as only referring to Elect Salvation vs the Damned [717]. Similarly, a new way for viewing Revelation 22 (last chapter in the Bible, i.e. the “Final Scene”) again as referring to Elect Salvation, Non Elect Salvation and the Damned instead of the prevalent way of viewing it as only referring to Elect Salvation vs the Damned [718].

New way of viewing the “Thirsty” who are given the “Water of Life” in the “Final Scene” even via the invitation of the “Bride” (Elect Salvation) at that time as referring to someone who could be ‘believing a little but not strong enough to be considered faith level for then such a person would have been the Elect’ and opposed to the “unbelieving” in the Lake of Fire who could be rejecting whatever Christ Said in comparison [719].

Sheep of the other fold to refer to those saved during second resurrection timeline. The Sheepfold1 (Elect Salvation) is saved during the First Resurrection at start of the Millennium while Sheepfold2 (Non Elect Salvation) is saved at the end of this same 1000 years during the Second Resurrection who rise simultaneously with the wicked and are only separated and saved on Judgment Day. This is different from popular view within those who also believe in other types of Chiliasm where they claim that all those of second resurrection are unsaved [720].

“12Who can understand his errors? Cleanse me from secret faults.” [721]

Appendix I: Miscellaneous

Table of Contents

Introduction ……………….…………………………………………………………….……… 420

1. Slide 1 – Tan Sri Ananda Krishnan & Satellite .…………………………..… 424

2. Slide 2 – Touch Screen Technology used in Smart Phones …………….… 426

3. Slide 3 – Prophet Daniel who was an A student in Academics .…………. 429

4. Slide 4 – Daily Life Usage Materials …………….…………………………….. 431

5. Slide 5 – Were the British Colonial Powers worse? ..…….………….……… 433

6. Slide 6 – Earthly Judgment (“Karma”), Religion, Conversion, War, Freedom,

Equality and what’s God’s Will? …………………………………….. 436

7. Slide 7 – God’s Will in His Sovereignty and Human Free Will …..………. 438

8. Slide 8 – First Religion Logic and who are the Real Betrayers? …….…… 442

9. Slide 9 – What does the Bible define as “Greatest Faith”? …………….…. 445

10. Slide 10 – What are the characteristics of the “Greatest Faith”? ..……… 447

11. Slide 11 – Way of Spiritual Christian Kings .…………………………..….… 450

12. Slide 12 – Chiliasm Zionism Prophecy Details ……………………………… 454

13. About the Authour ………………………………………………………………… 461

The reason I included this section is to summarise some key theological points with sample quotes and proofs in order to defend Christianity as well as to point out why I don’t believe in certain popular modern Christian teachings either. I am well aware that due to my beliefs, even Christians discriminate me from ministry work, to Bible school (yes, I was a former student who argued with the lecturer on theological points and got terminated) to even some secular job placement since they get offended whenever I did not subscribe to their beliefs. Some do not like me because I’m Indian (race reasons) but I judge people individually based on their character and belief. There is a Bible verse for this (provided that I’m doctrinally more accurate as per Chiliasm Church Father quotes shown in this book even for some or most part meaning if I’m reading them right?)

“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” [722]

A key difference is I do not persecute anyone due to their beliefs simply because there is no New Testament Bible verse promising any reward in heaven for doing so. In fact, Bible verse assures reward even if we are kind to the wicked which means God does not put any accountability on us such as you made the wicked to prosper and so I have to reduce your heavenly reward or that you didn’t resist the evil person and so you contributed to more evil in the world simply because we cannot detect what people are doing in their private lives or who is wicked or not and further still, even if we know some evil people, we are supposed to not resist them and love them as Christ taught this in verses below (not my opinion):

“38“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away. 43“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44[o]But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?” [723]

Even St. Irenaeus of Lyons confirms that this is the right way to understand these Bible verses in his quote next and since “to obey is better than sacrifice” [724], why should I do differently?

“so that you may not follow him as a slave, but may as a free man go before him, showing yourself in all things kindly disposed and useful to your neighbour, not regarding their evil intentions, but performing your kind offices, assimilating yourself to the Father, who makes His sun to rise upon the evil and the good, and sends rain upon the just and unjust. Matthew 5:45” [725]

Some people are overly dramatic when they quote reasons like don’t build Satan’s kingdom or better to support those of same race or religion or denomination when they apply it say for job-hire simply because what I’m quoting is same/similar beliefs and possibilities with the holiest & earliest most orthodox Church Fathers and not myself nor some modern thought. However, many of these same people also work daily in a job for unbelievers to other type of sinners making them prosperous. Can you see the contradiction?

If what they say is true, then even within Christianity, a Protestant should never work for a company owned by a Catholic and vice versa since the latter can be claiming a testimony that God is prospering them due to their faithfulness in their denomination attending Church weekly etc. and you are contributing to that; see the absurdity?

Also, such believers in Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant camps should never continue staying and contributing to a majority non-Christian country either simply because they’re making unbelievers prosper especially in light of Prosperity Gospel believers who fantasize that it’s because of their presence that a country prospers, right?

The only one who is authorized to execute judgment on evil people in this earth are those in government authority for New Testament times:

“1Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will [a]bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.” [726]

These New Testament Bible verses allows only a ruling government to execute the “sword” (meaning police and military arms) toward anyone doing evil. Whether they do it rightly and punish evil persons or whether there is power abuse, God will judge one day. It’s not our business on earth as Christians to do any revolt with “swords” nor to “resist the evil person” as Christ’s Words echo in Matthew 5 earlier.

Notice that when Apostle St. Paul wrote these Bible verses, the Roman government authority was persecuting and killing Christians as well till Emperor Constantine converted a few hundred years later. This means that even such an evil government which did not recognize basic human rights for one to become Christian is still allowed by God and we are to submit to it for the parts where they don’t contradict the faith and even pay taxes to them. So, can any of our theological opponents dare say that this God is promoting evil in this verse since he is teaching non-resistance even to a government which kills Christians? Remember, “to obey is better than sacrifice”.

I am going to quote the next sections of this Appendix in its original form using different font type and setting with images.

Slide 1 – Discoverers vs Business PPT (This is not a Religious PPT but aimed to share real life success stories and insights so maybe you can replicate the idea in some way as well if applicable to your field of work) – Tan Sri Ananda Krishnan & Satellite

Businessman:

“Ananda Krishnan, one of Malaysia’s wealthiest individuals with a business empire spanning telecommunications, satellites, media, oil, gas, and real estate, passed away, according to a statement from his private investment firm, Usaha Tegas. His only son, Ven Ajahn Siripanyo, recently made headlines by renouncing his claim to a $5 billion inheritance at the age of 18 to dedicate his life to Buddhist monasticism.” Source:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/global-trends/billionaire-son-turned-monk-ven-ajahn-siripanyos-father-malaysias-richest-man-ananda-krishnan-passes-away/articleshow/115759996.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

My comments: AK never said his son is useless for the choice of monasticism (spiritual pursuit) compared to his actual nation building job creation work feeding so many families etc., right? AK didn’t marry his own race (it doesn’t matter either way but I point since some claim ‘must marry own race type of racists’). Some say that instead of renouncing the inheritance money without taking it, perhaps the son could take it and give it all away to Charity as his own beliefs align to that too for if not, it remains in the hands of others who get richer by it. Hopefully AK’s philanthropy money is spent via actual Olympians etc. as per his dream across various fields.

None of his main telecommunication success is possible without these “Satellites” which he bought from American companies. Source: https://hteknologi.com/blog/measat-3d-berjaya-dilancarkan/

“MEASAT-3d. MEASAT-3d was constructed by Airbus Defence and Space. It was launched on 23 June 2022”. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEASAT_Satellite_Systems

Airbus Defence and Space is an American company and more importantly “Satellite Discovery” was done by Russia and later advanced by Americans. Examples: “1957 – USSR Launches Sputnik 1” and “1962 – Skynet / NASA Launch Telstar 1” etc. Source: https://www.groundcontrol.com/knowledge/guides/a-brief-history-of-satellite-communications/ . Basically, without this “Satellite Discovery” or without that “American Company” there would be no such technological successes at all by these private companies using it to promote their telco services to Malaysia including MAXIS and ASTRO. Thank you AK and more so America and Russia too!

#AK #Ananda #Krishnan #Telco #Billionaire #Maxis #ASTRO #Malaysia benefit from #Satellite #JobCreation #Income for #Citizens with #Businessman vs #Discovery .

Slide 2 – Discoverers vs Business PPT – Touch Screen Technology used in Smart Phones etc.

Businessman:

“2007: Apple – Apple was the first company to launch a touchscreen smartphone in 2007 successfully. Because the iPhone has a compact, user-friendly form and minimal multitouch functionality, users cannot hold the shift key with one finger while typing a capital letter with another in keyboard mode. However, it enables the pinching capability for zooming in and out of maps and pictures, invented by researcher Krueger. The first iPhone helped touchscreen technologies become popular worldwide.” [Note: Krueger is a “discoverer” here]

Discoverers:
“1965: E.A. Johnson: The idea of the touchscreen interface was recorded in October 1965 when an engineer in Malvern, England, specifically at the Royal Radar Establishment, aimed to develop a touchscreen to aid traffic control. His name was Eric Arthur Johnson.

1970: Dr. G. Samuel Hurst: While capacitive touchscreens were the first to be invented, resistive touchscreens surpassed them in initial years. Dr. G. Samuel Hurst created resistive touchscreens nearly by accident. At the time, Hurst was conducting research at the University of Kentucky.

1984: Bob Boie: Nimish Mehta created the first human-controlled multitouch device at the University of Toronto in 1982. Myron Krueger, an American computer artist who built an optical system that could capture hand gestures, pioneered gesture interaction immediately after. Touchscreens became extensively commercialized in the early 1980s. When Bell Labs’ Bob Boie created the first transparent multitouch screen interface, it significantly advanced multitouch technology. Moreover, this allowed users to alter visuals with their fingertips.”

Source: https://www.forbes.com/councils/forbestechcouncil/2022/07/20/a-brief-history-of-touchscreen-technology-from-the-iphone-to-multi-user-videowalls/

[Notice that the only Asian for this key discovery which revolutionized phone technology etc. was by Nimish Mehta (an Indian) who got such fair opportunity and recognition without anyone plagiarizing his work from “University of Toronto”; I highlight this to show how ‘fair’ some ‘Christian people are’ too toward non-Christians as well by “merit”].

My comments: All other phone companies just “copied and modified” these “original discoverer’s works” and made much “more money” (even via their ‘salesman, middle man, business managers etc.’) than any of these “original discoverers” who contributed to it all. Let’s thank the real “unsung heroes” of “technology” who “didn’t make the money they deserve” and caused “others to be rich & have employments etc. via their discoveries”.

By ‘money they deserve’, I mean do they earn say even “1 cent” for “every touch screen phone created by anyone”? since that’s what “perfect fair is” because their work affects every touch screen phone created in that way. Please understand the ‘great use’ of ‘touch screen’ technology used today not just in phones but all other devices where it’s found to understand how ‘profound’ contributing to such a “discovery” really is. Very few are grateful to even understand ‘who did which contribution’ and just ‘use things’ (psychological trait revealed).

All #Phones #IPhone #TouchScreen #Creators while others #benefit from #JobCreation #Income in the #world with #Businessman vs #Discovery #DiscoverersvsBusinessmanPPT .

Note: This is not an exhaustive list of Christian discoverers but a sample to show an example regarding how many Christian scholars are relatively unknown even for significant real life application type impact work.

Slide 3 – Discoverers vs Business PPT – Prophet Daniel who was an A student in Academics and knowing Secrets of God too

Businessman analogy: Prosperity Gospel preachers claim that if you’re sick, it’s because you’re oppressed by demons. Truth is, some cases of sickness is demonic but some are not and even “faithful & holy” level as “Timothy the Evangelist” can still ‘remain sick without any healing promised’ as Apostle St. Paul wrote to take ‘wine as medicine’ for his “frequent sickness” in 1 Timothy 5:23. Similarly since Bible states that a highly skilled worker is gifted by the Spirit of God in Exodus 31:3 (35:31), so does it mean if you’re not highly skilled at work/academics, then you are “demon possessed” (just like the same way some say that ‘if you are poor, it’s because a demonic curse is on you’)?

Discoverer analogy: People believed such gibberish for a long time misinterpreting Old Testament verses too until Christ arrived and taught this economic based comparison as follows: “Blessed are you poor, For yours is the kingdom of God. … 24“But woe to you who are rich, For you have received your consolation.” (Luke 6:20, 24, NKJV). I have not enough space here but the “poor in spirit” term refers to ‘those generous, like to share, charity doctrine type’ as many Church Fathers taught likewise for this parabolic term which agrees with Bible Verses below for “saved rich persons” (can you see the ‘Charity Doctrine level required at “rich” level by relative measure below for “Eternal Life” fruit in Financial holiness to “fight the good fight of faith” context):

“12Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life … 17Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, 19storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.” (1 Timothy 6:12, 17 – 19, NKJV)

Prophet Daniel was an “A” type of Student of even worldly literature etc. (Daniel 1:17) and compared to know secrets of God (Ezekiel 28:3) such as Daniel 12:3 also agrees that “wisdom (insight)” referring to “accuracy of doctrine” shines in higher “heavens level” as compared to ‘converting many to less accurate righteousness’ which is called ‘lower stars level’.

“As for these four young men, God gave them knowledge and skill in all literature and wisdom; and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams. Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament [Heavens], And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever. ” (Daniel 1:17, 12:3, NKJV)

Here’s the most important part: Christ taught that those with His “Holy Spirit” will be able to “answer theology” without ‘preparing for it’ in a “winning debate manner” which “cannot be contradicted nor resisted” and that’s why others will hate & some kill them:

“14Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will [f]answer; 15for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or [g]resist. 16You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 17And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake.” (Luke 21:14 – 17, NKJV)

Last thought: Among Christian debates, I consider say Chiliasm possibilities and others sometimes disagreeing with it and let God decide which was it on that day and have mercy on our errors (being human). Worldly people can be more rich and better A student too but they won’t do both “more charity doctrine” with “believe in more accurate theology in Christ” & God alone knows the denial threshold that’s the “difference” taught in the “Bible Verses” quoted here.

#Discoverers in #theology most important where more #accurate higher final #heavens glory compared to #lower #Convert #many #Stars level compare with #Businessman type errors which aims at prosperity #DiscoverersvsBusinessmanPPT .

Slide 4 – Discoverers vs Business PPT – The World’s First Modern Stoves and Ball Pen (daily life usage materials)

1) Beyond the caveman style of cooking over campfires or coals, the “modern stove” begins with the “discovery” of “gas stove and electrical stoves” which revolutionized cooking forever in terms of convenience and quality. Let’s take a moment to thank God for giving these Christians (Westerners) such inventions which we use today.

2) Example history for “Discoverers” quote: “British inventor, James Sharp patented a gas stove in 1826, the first successful gas stove to appear on the market. The Carpenter Electric Heating Manufacturing Co. invented an electric stove in 1891. On June 30, 1896, William Hadaway was issued the first patent for the electric stove. In 1910, William Hadaway went on to design the first toaster made by Westinghouse, a horizontal combination toaster-cooker. The microwave oven was a by-product of another technology. It was during a radar-related research project around 1946 that Dr. Percy Spencer, an engineer with the Raytheon Corporation, noticed something very unusual. ” Source: https://theinventors.org/library/inventors/blstoves.htm and this: “The modern kitchen range was invented by Sir Benjamin Thompson, Count Rumford in the 1790s. As an active scientist and prolific inventor, he put the study of heat onto a scientific basis and developed improvements for chimneys,^[5] fireplaces and industrial furnaces, which led to his invention of the kitchen range.” Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_stove (remember they made ‘our mother’s lives so much easier!’). The “Businessman” here are any ‘electrical goods brands’ which copied and modified their inventions (imagine the amount of job & revenue created till today even into F &B industry application etc.).

3) Example “Discoverers” history quote for “ballpoint pen”: “The inventor of the ballpoint pen is much easier to identify — Hungarian-Argentinian inventor László Bíró is responsible for the everyday writing tool we have come to know. Sometimes, the ballpoint pen is even referred to as a Biro, named after its inventor!” (Source: https://endlesspens.com/blogs/ramona-writes-whats-whys-and-hows/who-invented-fountain-ballpoint-and-rollerball-pens). The sad thing is when Biro tried to sell his own pen as it is, he failed but a businessman bought his patents over and made the No. 1 best selling pen to date! (fair?). “Businessman” quote: “Laszlo Biro had never achieved mass market success with the Biro Pen, but was ready for a to change. Marcel Bich was a French manufacturer who understood the potential value of a working ballpoint. He licensed the designs of the ballpoint pens by Bíró for two million dollars. With those, he formed the Bic Company in 1953. The company struggled with sales initially but achieved unsurmounted success with the world’s most popular pen, the Bic Cristal. Plastic, cheap to manufacture, and incredibly usable, his commercially successful ballpoint pen sold more than any other writing instrument in history. Since it went into production in the 1950s, over 100 billion Bic Cristals have been sold.” (Source: https://www.dayspringpens.com/blogs/the-jotted-line/who-invented-the-ballpoint-pen-history)

#Christian #Western #Discoverers in #Stove #Kitchen #Microwave to #Ballpoint #Pen compare with #Businessman type #games among them too which aims at prosperity #DiscoverersvsBusinessmanPPT .

Slide 5 – Discoverers vs Business PPT – Were the British Colonial Powers worse in “Relative Measure” than Natives or other Kings prior?

1) Why am I writing this? To encourage people to convert to Christianity by realizing Christ never commanded any British to conquer, loot and bully any other nations which is all the ‘damned human greed part’. Bible Verse: “But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.” (Matthew 26:52).

2) Indian kings conquered lands inside and outside India and looted them too. Relative measure means for example a person stealing $9 out of $10 is same as a person stealing $900 out of $1000 since in percentage it’s still 90%. It also means when those kings looted others, that’s all the “weaker native races of those lands had” and so they lost it all likewise. So, such Indian kings are equal as a bully to the British. Can you see it?

3) From Chola to Asoka, the story is same as even Indians know it (example link: http://www.sikhtimes.com/news_062903a.html ) that such kings looted and waged wars bullying and conquering weaker nations from Nicobar to Sumatra and included the entire Malayan peninsula. Minus the outward conquests, even inside Chola and Asoka, whether Tamils or otherwise, they bullied their own race with “caste system” instead of say promotion by “merit” via “public examinations” for “government or ruling positions etc.” which “Chinese did well to some extent”. Some say caste system or similar practices exists secretly in Indian politics even today globally within them. Regarding religious conversions, India’s military (sword) conquest may not be in the name of religion but the greed/murder/rapes etc. were still the same as any British etc. by “relative measure” meaning both “Christianity and Hinduism” teach against such “evil” generally but still done by both “rulers and kings in both these religions” by ‘their choice’ so cannot blame religion for that.

4) Example of possible “Karma” explanation (I do not believe in “full” Karma but only Spirit World Judgment though some Judgment can happen on earth itself making some cases true): “Porus (flourished 4th century bce) was an Indian king … Unlike his neighbour, Ambhi, the king of Taxila (Takshashila), Porus resisted Alexander. But with his elephants and slow-moving infantry bunched, he was outmatched by Alexander’s mobile cavalry and mounted archers in the Battle of the Hydaspes. Impressed by his techniques and spirit, Alexander allowed him to retain his kingdom and perhaps even ceded some conquered areas to him.” (Source: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Porus).

My comments: I am not fan of war and conquest but I’m more impressed by Alexander’s action here since if the positions were reversed, would the same have happened? I mean India’s kings have bullied each other and the poor for centuries including the “caste” system as though “higher caste” “discovered” more in “math, science technology etc.” say than “Western races or far east?” proving their silliness and the destruction of their kings by colonial powers which may be the prayers answered on behalf of all their own poor bullied for thousands of years. How did it feel? Maybe the British aren’t so bad in comparison either, can you see it? One Devil dominates another. Satan against satan.

If they’re not Satan, let God decide but by “full Karma” law, “British” are “holier” since their “monarchy and country” is “richer, smarter with discoveries etc.” even allowing “more Indians to succeed in their country fairly today” compared to India which is “poorer even by population ratio” & “its kings wiped out mostly” (is it “their karma”?).

Similar thought: no point in praying to God for 10 hours daily and then say discriminate Math Olympians from employment or say in education charity KMC math programs in vernacular schools etc. (see you on the ‘other side’ after death).

#Karma #Indian #Kings vs #British #Colonial #Wars #Relative #Measure analysis of #Human #Wickedness which is #Businessman type errors which aims at prosperity vs #Discoverers who strive for #Virtue in #Religion and #Job #Government #DiscoverersvsBusinessmanPPT .

Slide 6 – Discoverers vs Business PPT – Earthly Judgment (“Karma”), Religion, Conversion, War, Freedom, Equality and what’s God’s Will?

1) Old Testament (OT): God’s Law allowed the wiping out of some natives because they were “evil”. Example: such natives killed the “babies” of “other weaker races/natives” first and by “karma” (I use this word to signify any ‘earthly judgment’), a stronger nation kills their babies in future, Verse: “8O daughter of Babylon, who are to be destroyed, Happy the one who repays you as you have served us! 9Happy the one who takes and dashes Your little ones against the rock!” (Psalm 137:8 – 9, NKJV). Any mother-drama is easily silenced say if you know the future that a baby in your hands today is going to kill “your daughter/son or other babies of different religion/race” in future, would you not kill it now? (only that “type of babies” are commanded to be killed in Bible verses as Psalm 137:8 – 9 here reveals this “secret”).

2) Moral dilemma: Logic of OT is perfect but if you wrongly assume and kill a person of different religion who say does “not” kill babies (of any religion), believes in “freedom of religion for any individual” and even “does not discriminate others from job & other daily living functions”, that’s “murder”. So, when a “relatively” good person suffers, you cannot call it “karma” because he is experiencing “evil”.

3) How to know someone is ‘relatively good’ or not? Example: Though pitiful that all those children and innocent citizens of any religion get murdered by other religion believers during conquests, you must remember that these same ones may have done the same when they converted to their religion 1st time in their lands “murdering” their “forefathers” and “other minority groups” and some even today, if given a “chance”, would do the “same murder” toward “others” meaning it sounds very “karma” (or more accurately ‘earthly judgment’) if they experience it “today”, right? The rest will be judged in “Spirit World” (Hell) while the only “truly innocent ones” are those of “any race” who “die” but they believe in “freedom of religion for anyone by choice and who never discriminate anyone from say job, treat everyone equally etc.” as Christ taught to “love your neighbour as yourself” and “love your enemies” I pray to find “God’s Mercy”. Can you “see” it?

4) Yes, anyone can claim “ideal” but first you have to quote your “religious beliefs” to have such a perfect ideal first and then only those who “follow it” are justified while the rest are “lawless” and may be “denied”, fair, right? That’s why I’m a Christian and see no error in Christianity in these areas in “theory” ignoring those “wrong Christians”.

5) Another example: Race A were originally caveman but they converted to religion P, then Q and today R is their majority. So, the native land of race A is claimed by religion R today but those of them in religion Q today say it should be theirs. The minority within them which is religion Q which existed before religion R whose ‘holy place’ is ‘destroyed’ by same race A and replaced by religion R’s holy place eventually – so would religion R give up their holy place back to construct religion Q’s to be “fair”? How about religion P of same race A which predates both or their caveman ancestors’ claims? So does “majority today” determine it and if so, if other Race B from religion Q or S or Z also can win war to claim it, can they do the “same”? Can you see it?

6) What to do? In New Testament times, keep away from all wars as a Christian and love neighbours to enemies and treat all “fairly” even if we are “unfairly treated” (see Luke 6) as Christ concluded the “narrow road to life” as this, “Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 13“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 [c]Because narrow is the gate and [d]difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:12 – 14, NKJV). On “Judgment Day”, God Will send those wrong to Hell and may have Mercy on others I hope. Example: if religion R claims its justified because they serve the ‘true God’, yes, they will win in the end and also God will applaud them. Personally, I do not think that will happen and by end of time, we will see the truth, “karma-type judgments” and “evil prevail” before finally the “true God” will come and end all this and prove who was “true”.

#War #Religion #Wars for #Land #Logic #Minority #Always suppressed by #Majority even within #same #race #different #religion so let #God decide #evil vs #karma on #Judgment #Day #Spirit #World while we #love #neighbours to #enemies as #Christian as no #bad #games to #play .

Slide 7 – Discoverers vs Business PPT – God’s Will in His Sovereignty and Human Free Will Bible Verses and Logic – Best Lesson in Life

“5“… He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:5 – 6, NKJV)

“But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.” (Mark 4:20, NKJV)

“And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life” (Matthew 19:29, NKJV)

“so faith without works is dead also.” (James 2:26, NKJV)

“If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” (1 Corinthians 3:14 – 15, NKJV)

1) In Bible verses above, if those with “fruit” refers to “thirtyfold, sixtyfold or hundredfold” and are “Elect Salvation” with “reward-level” (Christians) so must be 1 Corinthians 3:14, right? So, doesn’t 1 Corinthians 3:15 point to someone whose “work” is “burned” case? (remember “no works of faith” is same as “no faith” right in James 2:26?) but these are still “saved by fire” so could be “non-elect Salvation”? If “saved by fire case” is Elect Salvation, how is it minimum thirtyfold since even if “one rewarded work” exists for a person it must be by “faith only” (right?) meaning that is 1 Corinthians 3:14 (reward case, faith-work, fruits with minimum thirtyfold) and not 1 Corinthians 3:15 (no reward case, no work based on faith, no fruit?, contrasted but “saved by fire”), isn’t it? If the above logic is wrong and someone read what I wrote and decided ‘not to believe in Christ & sin more and died and went to Hell’, what does it tell about that person? Also, a good tree will believe in Christ by doing his holiness and charity commands etc. regardless if non-Elect Salvation possibility is true or not because he is not finding an excuse to live in sin. This consideration is done based on evidences in the Bible like this with First Christianity quotes (so a possibility and not doctrine as it’s hard to conclude either way [honesty]).

2) Christian leaders whom I follow are Chiliasm Church Fathers (mainly St. Justin of Rome, St. Irenaeus of Lyons and Tertullian) and I wrote a 400 page plus book for it which I may self-publish soon containing some new insights for old CHILIASM quotes for if it’s not new, some denomination would have it as statement of belief (or possibility), right? but also have sent it to key Christian leadership across variety of denominations (around October 2024) to share how especially ‘non-Elect Salvation’, ‘anti-prosperity gospel’, ‘heavy charity doctrine’ emphasis and other ‘millennial prophecies’ may be more accurately understood. Also, Chiliasm fathers agree with Protestant Founders such as Luther (Lutheran), Calvin (Reformed) and Wesley (Methodist) on topics like no Sabbath, no tithes and no women pastors over men for Gentile believers as I have shown in earlier slides & more in that 400-page book meaning I quoted actual ‘Church Planters’ and ‘Pastors’ even within Protestantism who are “saved” and “bigger than anyone you can quote” (so safe). So, the book has some content that is ‘not new’ also. If anyone put me in jail for that book (false plagiarism claim or etc.), what an honour to suffer for Christ then. 4) Remember that the poor widow gave 2 coins which hardly fed any but Christ Said she gave most in Luke 21:1 – 3 so outward result or no. of conversions does not matter for ranking as Daniel 12:3 also agrees that “wisdom (insight)” referring to “accuracy of doctrine” shines in higher “heavens level” as compared to ‘converting many to less accurate righteousness’ which is called ‘lower stars level’. Similarly, Roman Catholic & Orthodox domination without any printed Bibles at least from 500 AD to 1500 AD did the ‘Great Commission’ during those times, right? (while praying to Virgin Mary to doing indulgences etc.) meaning from a protestant perspective, even if ‘they were wrong’, God never interfered, right? So, even any other modern protestant position can have serious errors likewise despite ‘converting many’ too). 3) Revelation 14:1 – 5 with Revelation 7:4 – 8 mentions the 144000 “virgin, Jewish men” in the highest level of salvation “tithes/firstfruit holiest lot” different from “rest of Elect multitude” (Revelation 7:9 – 17) so how many “unmarried, Jewish men missionaries who converted many within Christianity you know? [name one?]” but yet they are “closest” to God because it’s written in Revelation 14:5 that they were “most accurate” in “doctrine & practice” literally since “no deceit nor guile was found in their mouth” (remember that many non-elect salvation quote I show from first Christianity are from “Jewish-Christian” writings so possible but beyond that it’s accuracy in all other topics of doctrine as well).

God’s Will is mysterious and is something like He allows free will with conditions and lets Judgment in this life or next or both for each person (except those true believers are exempted from ‘afterlife judgment’ in John 5:24). A person could be suffering ‘earthly judgment fairly’ or ‘evil though he is not wrong’ relatively so that God Will show One Day (don’t judge quickly).

Every topic from ‘women pastors’, ‘rapture’ to ‘charity doctrine’ if wrongly done means a person can contribute to overall evil prevailing in the world as God’s judgment and that’s why I show Bible verses and Church Fathers to imitate their faith (Hebrews 13:7) meaning you or your Church could be contributing to judgment as well.

Catholic logic that without “wars” Christianity would have not survived is proven false in Roman empire conversion without one war with other monarchs of early Christian missions too and say warlike religion R exists only after Christianity could be God’s Judgment on Christianity and would never have existed if Christians did not start wars etc. in later centuries as God would not have allowed it (can you see it?) as Christ Said those who take the sword will perish by sword (Matthew 26:52).

In short, we contribute unknowingly to how much evil allowed in the world by disobeying New Testament Commands (“Lawlessness”). That’s why I’m Christian with First Christianity Quotes.

#Elect vs #Non Elect #Salvation #Possibility not #Doctrine #Preach #Christ include #Preach His #Commands to avoid #Lawlessness especially #Charity #Doctrine #Command as #Gods #Will for #Money.

Slide 8 – Discoverers vs Business PPT – First Religion Logic and who are the real betrayers of God, family and even natives of a land?

1) My point is simple: If you “hate” any concept of “eternal hell if someone doesn’t convert into their religion”, then you must “equally keep away” from “all such religions/its adherents jobs/benefits such countries etc.” and not only “pick and choose” the “poorer, not economically beneficial to you type of persons from a less-convert religion in that area”, right? can you see it? On the other hand, if you don’t mind such religions, then good for you and coexist and be real loving each other because from their perspective, “you” who did not convert into their religion “contribute” to overall evil in the world” which also “affects them and their family” and so that’s why they don’t mind if “you burn eternally in hell if you didn’t convert”.

2) In addition to this, since Christianity is such a religion, I consider “Non Elect Salvation” as a “possibility” as say “part of nations saved in that final new city on final new earth” (Revelation 21:23 – 24) who seem to be different from Elect Salvation “Bride” (Christians) in that final scene (Revelation 21:9). The only other difference here is some of believers of any religion which teaches eternal hell is that “they don’t tell you directly” but “secretly believe that you are going to eternal hell” whereas “I honestly tell you this part as well as other thoughts of mine with possibilities and even First Christianity quotes with it”. So, nothing I did in this is ‘hypocritical or playing double face games like those who never tell you directly that you’re going to eternal hell based on their religion which they believe’ as long as you can “benefit” them “economically” too in some way, right?. See the “difference”?

3) Example: Ask your “political and economy leaders of your religion”, why are they like “beggars” too (just like me, not native in a land) who live off the “land of others” if they believe in “no converting & stay in some base religion” since if so, why not apply that “same principle beyond religion” to “homeland residence” and go back to “our own native lands”? I mean in ‘citizenship consideration’, any non-native is like “converting into such lands by betraying their motherland by leaving it” which is equivalent in principle to “converting into other religions by betraying their own base religion”, right? So, that’s okay with them?

Also, if the “motherland religion is so good and creates prosperity, harmony with nature etc.”, why not they go back to the “motherland” and produce that “good economy and better life”? I mean, if the “motherland religion” fails to give the majority of “your race” that “prosperity”, so it “failed” in “home base” but “your people of your religion/race” live better “economically” in lands where “natives believe in eternal hell if you don’t convert to their religion”, then the latter seems like doing “more good while you’re betraying their religion”, right?

So “best religion” will be based on “which countries in the world are economically best” and so that’s why even in this “human talk logic”, I still choose “Christianity” and I pray for God’s Mercy on “this non-native land whom my poor forefathers were received into for work” for their “kindness” in allowing me to continue to live here (that’s gratitude) hoping non-Elect Salvation to be true for as many among them that “helped Christians like me (minority etc.)”.

Can you see it?

4) Problem: If you convert into Christianity, some of your family or race or current base religion adherents may call you a “betrayer” etc., right?

5) Question to ponder: Have you ever helped say one native of this land to prosper for “free” without any “economic agenda” (like salary, use their land to earn money and their people as labourer workers since they’re poor etc.) say via sponsoring a simple tutor/charity toward their education/economic infrastructure like home and “earthly goods” to say “thank you in action”?

6) Remember: Even the so called base Religion B for “your race” had a starting point meaning before that aren’t “all” our forefathers were “caveman” likewise? So that means, that forefathers of yours “betrayed” their “previous cavemen parents” and believed in “Religion B” which itself may be created by “higher subrace” which is “not your subrace” meaning you are “enslaved” to them in that religion forever unless you “convert out” to becoming “caveman” again to be “loyal” to your “first parents”, right? Christians assert this first parent are Christians (Adam and Eve in a “spiritual sense”) meaning from our worldview, we are inviting people to convert back to “true loyalty and first family” likewise. God will prove in say HD or 4k (figure of speech) which religion was “first” for all human being on that Day so make your choice wisely here and don’t think your religion is first or earlier without understanding this “Biblical Secret”. All the best.

“26And He has made from one [j]blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us” (Acts 17:26 – 27, NKJV)

#Honesty #Loyal to #God #First #Religion will be shown on #Judgment #Day together with which #forefathers and #mothers were #real #betrayers and #changed .

Slide 9 – Discoverers vs Business PPT – With so many belief variants within Christianity itself, what does the Bible define as “Greatest Faith”? Is it most converts or richest in finance or something else?

1) When Christ Said not found such a great faith even in Israel, it did not refer to someone who converted many but rather to someone who believed the most implying more accurate doctrines means greater faith too. Can you see it?

“8The centurion answered and said, “Lord, I am not worthy that You should come under my roof. But only speak a word, and my servant will be healed. 9For I also am a man under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 10When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! 11And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour. ” (Matthew 8:8 – 13, NKJV)

In regards to “believing something”, I consider “Non Elect Salvation Possibility” and “other Chiliasm prophecy” quotes from St. Justin of Rome, St. Irenaeus of Lyons and Tertullian primarily meaning even if “Non Elect Salvation Possibility” turns out ‘false’, there are still other fascinating “prophecies” different from ‘mainstream Christianity today’ such as “Thousand Year Gap for Prophecy in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:52” instead of both referring to ‘same event’ or “change from human to angelic at the end of Millennium” etc.

So, if we are more accurate on any of these details, it can be considered for “great faith” likewise and if we are wrong, our theological opponents may be getting that reward for “great faith” in pleasing Christ then (fair).

“But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.” (Hebrews 11:6, NKJV)

2) Is considering “Non Elect Salvation Possibility” with “Chiliasm quotes risky”? Why want to take such risk? There is “no” risk here since it leads no one to hell because if someone read what I wrote and decided ‘not to believe in Christ & sin more and died and went to Hell’, what does it tell about that person? In short, a good tree will believe in Christ by doing his holiness and charity commands etc. regardless if non-Elect Salvation possibility is true or not because he is not finding an excuse to live in sin.

3) The only thing mentioned to be “greater than faith” is “Love” (Agape) and that particular “Love of Christ laying down His Life to save us” (God’s “Free” Charity Doctrine in Principle to those whom He Saves) is “commanded” to be emulated by “true Christians in action” via “Charity Doctrine” only in Bible verses below (a great ‘Secret of God’ revealed where “share earthly goods” here can mean from giving money to family, friends or neighbours to enemies in Luke 6 to even sharing earthly and Bible knowledge for “free” in Facebook or Website accessible to all, skills, time etc. yes, for “free” without “economic agenda political type giving to gain something else”):

“16By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him? 18My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.” (1 John 3:16 – 18, NKJV)

#Christian #Faith #Mystery which is #Great let #God #Decide #Evidence for #Chiliasm #Quotes and #Charity #Doctrine .

Slide 10 – Discoverers vs Business PPT – What are the characteristics of the “Greatest Faith” which Christ commended (not men) in New Testament Scripture to be emulated by True Christians? Some manipulate to favour their own Church or denomination only but try great faith

Note: Whether Christ meant this faith as ‘greatest relative to that time and place or in any absolute sense’, no one knows but regardless, these points are worth noting to learn “how God is fair?”.

1) In life planning, some are very good with “earthly life” (money, retirement, family etc.). However, they have “no spiritual life visions (goals)” and “just have simple faith” (‘small’ spiritual vision which can be “converting many people too”). Can you see it?

“Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.” (Proverbs 29:18, KJV)

2) In the only case where Christ mentions a “Great Faith not found even in Israel” (and Christ doesn’t simply utter nonsense like us since He is Perfect), we see these intriguing points, verses:

“ 2And a certain centurion’s servant, who was dear to him, was sick and ready to die. 3So when he heard about Jesus, he sent elders of the Jews to Him, pleading with Him to come and heal his servant. 4And when they came to Jesus, they begged Him earnestly, saying that the one for whom He should do this was deserving, 5“for he loves our nation, and has built us a synagogue.” 6Then Jesus went with them. And when He was already not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to Him, saying to Him, “Lord, do not trouble Yourself, for I am not worthy that You should enter under my roof. 7Therefore I did not even think myself worthy to come to You. But say the word, and my servant will be healed. 8For I also am a man placed under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 9When Jesus heard these things, He marveled at him, and turned around and said to the crowd that followed Him, “I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!” 10And those who were sent, returning to the house, found the servant well [a]who had been sick.” (Luke 7:2 – 10, NKJV)

3) Points to ponder:

i) Christ heard “these things” and only then was ‘moved’ to go toward his house which included the “Charity Doctrine” part of this centurion “5“for he loves our nation, and has built us a synagogue.”. This is deep because this centurion (Gentile) was building a “synagogue (church)” for “Jews” (different race) which in analogy can mean “giving money or working to serve a different denomination within Christianity than what you believe fully”. Can you see it?

ii) I mean when Christ Said, “I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!”it referred to “Jesus heard these things, He marveled at him,” which included that particular aspect (only thing highlighted in Scripture so extremely important) regarding the “Charity Doctrine” the centurion did toward those not of his same race and denomination even since the “synagogue” is mixed at that time with those who “accept Christ and unbelieving Jews”. This “greater faith than Israel” referred to a centurion who “never converted many” too.

iii) This supports any giving of money to a Church for missions even if you are not that denomination (like that synagogue & its priests were mostly wrong about Christ – can you see it?) and likewise can work for them too (if given a Church job). Also, if you work a “secular” job as a “centurion”, the value of “your faith can still be greater” than a “pastor or priest of that synagogue or of the crowd which directly followed Christ” as Christ Himself told here.

iv) So, the “great faith” part is based on whose overall doctrinal accuracy and practice by relative measure (e.g. Luke 21:1 – 3’s poor widow’s 2 coin giving which hardly fed any compared to rich’s given with lots of visible effects). Indeed, how can someone judge you for not doing Church planting or Charity work on a big scale if they did not give their “church money or salary or love offering to you” for these purposes but gave to “someone else”? In short, who “receives the money in the name of God” have to do it (“more given, more is required”, Luke 12:48 to attain to same reward level which is relative measure (fair)).

V) Also, if you give from “your own money” (salary) and not “donation money only” for “Church missions or Charity” it’s greater in value as Christ Warned the Pharisees (priests) likewise:

“41But rather give alms of [l]such things as you have; then indeed all things are clean to you..” (Luke 11:41, NKJV)

#Secular or #Church #Job give #Money to #Missions or #Charity has higher value for #Great #Faith not even in #Israel if done to #Different #Denominations of #Christianity and from own #Salary #Posssessions #Skill #Time etc. for #earthly #Goods beyond #Donation type only .

Slide 11 – Discoverers vs Business PPT – Way of Spiritual Christian Kings is less to no drinking of alcohol, no smoking anything and no womanizing in any way and those who teach must practice as Judgment is stricter & enemies of Christianity have martyred some Christians or try to frame other Christians say by putting alcohol, drugs or even women fabrications etc. in order to destroy testimony.

1) My answer is simple: The one who “lies” or fabricates things “goes to Eternal Hell”, fair, right? Also, is your “god” a pedophile or fraud that “he” needs you to try “tarnish the holy name of Christianity by creating such false testimonies of Christians?” Also, even if a Christian falls, that’s his sin and not Christian Doctrine.

2) In some myths or even the fallen angel stories (who got worshipped as “god” during the times of Prophet Enoch), those “gods” were “drunkards to womanizers to murderers, rapists, adulterers, fornicators etc.”. Can you “see” it? I mean if your religion teaches holiness in these areas and you disobey it, I cannot blame your religion but if your “god” or “religion” itself teaches “nonsense” in these areas, how can I blame the “followers more” if they do these “same sins”?

3) Example: Mormon is a “Christian Cult” (not true Christianity) where its founder claimed to be visited by an angel called “Moroni” (even the name says it all) whose founder practiced both “polygamy” and was a “paedophile”. Remember, in Christianity, for the New Testament, God has renounced all those ‘ancient sins of polygamy’ and there is “no paedophilia” taught in Scripture (Bible) as the “Jewish Talmud quotes are not Scripture” (know the difference). Sample quote:

“… The Mormon church has said for the first time that its founder Joseph Smith had up to 40 wives. In an essay published on its website, external quoting “careful estimates”, the church said the wives included a 14-year-old and others who were already married. The Mormon church banned polygamy in 1890 and now excommunicates anyone who practises it. …” Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30009324

Note: How can the “Mormon Church” cover-up by banning polygamy later when its founder did it with 40 wives and even had a 14 year old wife? It’s like their “god” telling say you can have 1 wife but their prophet himself cannot keep that rule and has more than 1.

4) Christian holiness is perfect because for example we don’t keep away from women or even in celibacy (by choice) so that we can have any eternal marriage or sex in monogamy nor polygamy in heaven later but rather “marriages & sex does not exist” after resurrection.

“34Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.” (Luke 20:34 – 36, NKJV)

5) For those who eat and drink, do it moderately so that you won’t be a glutton nor a drunkard. The path I prefer to pursue and promote is eat moderately and abstain from alcohol completely, don’t smoke anything and don’t womanize. Just chill with friends and encourage each other hoping they may believe the Gospel.

“33For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look, a glutton and a [k]winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ 35But wisdom is justified by all her children.” (Luke 7:33 – 35, NKJV)

6) You can choose to abstain from alcohol by “choice” as Christ did here:

“But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.” (Matthew 26:29, NKJV)

7) Why would Christ abstain? To fulfil the Prophecy in these areas too that He is “KING of kings”, Verses for some Christian kings to follow too ‘willingly’:

“3Do not give your strength to women, Nor your ways to that which destroys kings. 4It is not for kings, O Lemuel, It is not for kings to drink wine, Nor for princes intoxicating drink.” (Proverbs 31:3 – 4, NKJV)

Don’t be deceived by “drunken rappers” calling themselves “kings” ya.

Notice that even within Christian Spiritual Leadership, we have this hierarchy based on alcohol consumption aspect too:

Higher “Bishop” position is said for those who consume “no wine”.

“2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, … 3not [b]given to wine, not violent, [c]not greedy for money,” (1 Timothy 3:2, 3, NKJV) Source: https://biblehub.com/nkjv/1_timothy/3.htm

Lower “Deacon” position is allowed a “little wine” consumption with different Koine Greek phrase used proving a slightly different meaning is meant.

“8Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, 9holding the [f]mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. ” (1 Timothy 3:8, NKJV)

#Real #Christian and #KINGS #Secret in #Lord #Jesus #Christ and #Scripture #God #Perfect #Holiness .

Slide 12 – Discoverers vs Business PPT – Chiliasm Zionism Prophecy details that Antichrist will build God’s Temple in the “real God’s Name” deceiving everyone which will be “realized” only after he declares himself as “god” and starts global final tribulation toward Christians

1) Bible Verses:

“15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains … 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.” (Matthew 24:15 – 16, 21 – 22, NKJV)

Notice that neither mid-tribulation nor pre-tribulation rapture position seems likely here since Christ directly Says that ‘these final worst (nor shall ever be) tribulation days’ will be shortened for the “elect” (implying ‘all elect’), hence “post-tribulation rapture” is more likely.

2) Chiliasm Church Fathers Quotes (Remember: Apostles and Prophets have “zero” prophecy errors)

i) St. Irenaeus of Lyons confirms that the “temple is of God” but it is built not with the help of God but with the help of the Antichrist/Unjust Judge for the Jews (can you “see” it?)

“2. Moreover, he (the apostle) has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways, that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God. Now I have shown in the third book, that no one is termed God by the apostles when speaking for themselves, except Him who truly is God, the Father of our Lord, by whose directions the temple which is at Jerusalem was constructed for those purposes which I have already mentioned; in which [temple] the enemy shall sit, endeavouring to show himself as Christ, … 4. The Lord also spoke as follows to those who did not believe in Him: I have come in my Father’s name, and you have not received Me: when another shall come in his own name, him you will receive, John 5:43 calling Antichrist the other, because he is alienated from the Lord. This is also the unjust judge, whom the Lord mentioned as one who feared not God, neither regarded man, Luke 18:2, etc. to whom the widow fled in her forgetfulness of God — that is, the earthly Jerusalem, — to be avenged of her adversary. Which also he shall do in the time of his kingdom: he shall remove his kingdom into that [city], and shall sit in the temple of God, leading astray those who worship him, as if he were Christ.” (St. Irenaeus of Lyons, c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter 25, Points 2 and 4) Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103525.htm

ii) St. Hippolytus of Rome clearly states that it’s the “Antichrist/Lawless one” that “builds the temple of God for the Jews” and not the real God but later “deceives” everyone:

“And at first, indeed, that deceitful and lawless one, with crafty deceitfulness, will refuse such glory; but the men persisting, and holding by him, will declare him king. And thereafter he will be lifted up in heart, and he who was formerly gentle will become violent, and he who pursued love will become pitiless, and the humble in heart will become haughty and inhuman, and the hater of unrighteousness will persecute the righteous. Then, when he is elevated to his kingdom, he will marshal war; and in his wrath he will smite three mighty kings,—those, namely, of Egypt, Libya, and Ethiopia. And after that he will build the temple in Jerusalem, and will restore it again speedily, and give it over to the Jews. And then he will be lifted up in heart against every man; yea, he will speak blasphemy also against God, thinking in his deceit that he shall be king upon the earth hereafter for ever; not knowing, miserable wretch, that his kingdom is to be quickly brought to nought, and that he will quickly have to meet the fire which is prepared for him, along with all who trust him and serve him.” (St. Hippolytus of Rome, c. 170 AD – c. 235 AD, On the End of the World, Point 25, some say this writing is ‘pseudo’ but others say that it’s ‘true’ which only God knows) Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0504.htm

Comment: Despite being one of Rome’s greatest theologians and a protestant favourite as one of the first anti-pope in some sense, I am well aware of St. Hippolytus’ other controversial quotes such as instead of two final witnesses (Enoch and Elijah), he also wrote of a third witness (Apostle St. John the Divine) but since these are not written by other Chiliasm fathers, I generally don’t accept it. However, he was St. Ireneaous’ hearer and St. Ireneaus quote earlier seem to match this quote of his for the ‘details part’ and so I consider such matching parts only as a “possibility” as well.

iii) St. Victorinus warns that the “Antichrist” will deceive through the “temple of God”:

“He shall cause also that a golden image of Antichrist shall be placed in the temple at Jerusalem, and that the apostate angel should enter, and thence utter voices and oracles. Moreover, he himself shall contrive that his servants and children should receive as a mark on their foreheads, or on their right hands, the number of his name, lest any one should buy or sell them. Daniel had previously predicted his contempt and provocation of God. “And he shall place,” says he, “his temple within Samaria, upon the illustrious and holy mountain that is at Jerusalem, an image such as Nebuchadnezzar had made.”²³⁰⁵²³⁰⁵ Dan. xi. 45. Thence here he places, and by and by here he renews, that of which the Lord, admonishing His churches concerning the last times and their dangers,” (St. Victorinus of Pettau, died c. 303 AD, ‘Commentary on the Apocalypse’, from the thirteenth chapter) Source: https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf07.vi.ii.xiii.html

#Prophecy #Zionism #Israel cannot be defeated because both #God and #Antichrist support it where God is with #kind #Loving #Christian #Israel while the #Devil is with #hateful #warlike #Bloodthirsty #Jews .

Zionism Must be Built in a Peaceful and Holy Way with NO BLOODSHED NOR ANY HOLY WAR. Bible verses:

” … 5This is what the LORD says concerning the prophets who lead my people astray:When they have something to bite with their teeth, they cry out, “Peace!”

But against him who puts nothing in their mouths, they declare holy war. 6Therefore it will be night for you—without vision, And darkness for you—without divination. The sun will go down on the prophets, And the day will become dark over them.

7The seers will be put to shame, And the diviners will be ashamed.

Indeed, they will all cover their [b]lips, Because there is no answer from God.

8On the other hand, I am filled with power— With the Spirit of the LORD— And with justice and courage to make known to Jacob his rebellious act, And to Israel his sin.

9Now hear this, you heads of the house of Jacob And rulers of the house of Israel, Who despise justice And twist everything that is straight,

10Who build Zion with bloodshed,

And Jerusalem with malice.

11Her leaders pronounce judgment for a bribe,

Her priests teach for pay,

And her prophets divine for money.

Yet they lean on the LORD, saying,

“Is the LORD not in our midst? Catastrophe will not come upon us.”…” (Micah 3:5 – 11, NASB) [727]

At most, the state of Israel being formed in 1948 by the UN Charter in PEACE is God’s Miraculous Intervention but the ‘enlarging of borders’ & ‘subsequent wars’ are BLOODSHED, ILLEGAL and AGAINST the 10 Commandments (e.g. in His Blessed Torah: Do NOT Murder, do NOT steal) and all antiwar New Testament verses too.

My style for missions is simple: I encourage the reader to convert into Christianity (any mainstream denomination which fits them best) and for those already a Christian, I encourage you to be more accurate to gain greater final rewards by God’s grace by reading the Chiliasm Prophecy and Doctrine quotes presented in this book.

So, basically what is prophesied to happen here in the context of Christian Zionism can be viewed like this:

God wants Israel to have its temple but instead of converting into Christianity by accepting Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah and following the way of zero war and bloodshed to do it, the unbelieving Jews reject Him and await another warlord type messiah for this which will be the “Antichrist” (“Beast” as he is called in Christian Prophecy) who builds it via terrible injustice.

Chiliasm quotes agree with this view and logic like if Catholics didn’t have war, they could not have defended Christianity is also proven false since the enemies of Catholicism would not even have existed if they obeyed God the right way from the start.

This is a very deep point which a lot of people miss namely, say a warlike enemy of Christianity exists only because God allows it as judgment for that “type” of Christianity which also first did some type of “warlike” crimes “breaking His Love your enemies commands etc.” and probably did say, “colonization”.

Zero war and non-violent Christianity can convert even a ruthless and powerful empire such as Rome itself which killed plenty of Christians too is proof that if God’s New Testament way is obeyed, God’s Will does take place in its own time. The conversion of Emperor Constantine into Christianity proved once and for all this point since it involved zero wars and zero killing or robbing of people of other nations.

In light of this Biblical logic, we see that the Daniel 9:27 prophecy is signifying judgment that since the Jews reject Lord Jesus as their Messiah generally, so they will be forced to look for another and be deceived by the Antichrist thinking he is the messiah just because he will succeed in building the Temple for the Jews in the most violent and unjust way.

This logic applies beyond Christian Zionism to Christianity as a whole too. Many denominations is a sign that we are not practicing Christianity accurately and so, God allows it to break further since He is not the author of confusion.

This means likewise claiming missions work of converting many etc. by various denominations is also tainted with nepotism, racism, love of money, human manipulations regarding who they support or allow as pastor or the theological views one believes and so, we let God judge in the end but knowing this gives relief since anyone can exceed another in doctrinal accuracy beyond conversions into less accurate Christianity as Daniel 12:3 points out. We will know the results of this on Judgment Day.

Yes, the Minority is usually unheard and sometimes can be doctrinally more accurate in Christianity itself.

About the author

Biography

Hi, I worked in multiple fields especially in Math Olympiad (other fields include engineering and management) but love preaching the Gospel most and also did some music compositions* by myself (I know I sound terrible, lol) as well as worked in some social work in paid and free capacities where I can. These days (since 2016), I am just freelancing teaching Math Olympiad or any School Maths too.

For example: Personally I have represented Malaysia to the International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO 2002) and failed there miserably with 1 mark (but both of the other 1 mark achievers in Malaysian Team who did not represent the country again either & did not have national top 3 ranking even but applied to the real University of Cambridge & got admitted (they worked hard later and excelled, kudos!) but I didn’t even know I could apply back then) after winning Second Place with “Full Marks” (equal to 1st place score but was judged that the first place winner wrote his subjective solutions in a better way for a 4 question 2 or 2.5 hours paper back then) in the Highest ‘Sulong’ Individual Category for the Malaysian National Math Olympiad (OMK, Olimpiad Matematik Kebangsaan) in 2002.

Just a note: I think I would have dropped out of Cambridge if I would have gotten admitted for Math back then since I did not discover any new possibilities in it (looking back in retrospect).

I also got a Gold Medal and World Ranking No. 8 out of 1415 contestants in Sony’s Global Math Challenge in 2015. I have also gotten Bronze Achievement in the Malaysian National Physics Competition (in year 2000) and a Distinction in the Australian National Chemistry Quiz (Senior Division back in 2001).

Academically I have a Bsc. Actuarial Science (Hons) from UKM (2006), in SPM I scored 8 As & 2B’s (2000) and was a Bank Negara Malaysia’s Scholarship recipient to study at UKM (2003 to 2006). I have an Exam P (Probability) completed for the SOA (Society of Actuaries) paper (2005).

I am one of the official Math Olympiad Coaches for the Malaysian national Team and have also Coached Malaysia to a few Private Olympiads too apart from students into various Math Olympiads.

I also teach informal Guitar playing occasionally and study theology & baptized some of my former students as they converted into Christianity (baptism videos in social link provided, Praise God!) as well as go lake fishing if I find the time!

*My music compositions (13 August 2024) in the ending pages of this pdf below:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mk5aYTc7pyQKb9f5Pn8NiQpZjfh-O0w5/view?usp=sharing

P/S: I am not saying I must be right since only God can reveal after we die which “prophecy” interpretation is true. Varied interpretations exist so some churches are going to be right versus other churches but all seem to do PHDs that one day if wrong, has no value in heaven, worst still could have mislead many while taking big salaries? I am not accusing anyone (since we don’t know which is right yet) but am pointing to serious responsibility where in my case** I already present it with not just the earliest Chiliasm father’s quotes but also point that others could be right (meaning those who claim they’re 100% right or God told them only are viable for Judgment of taking His Name in Vain but those who claim “own oracle/prophecy” can be spared according to Jeremiah 23:36 – 40).

**Sample Abstract for “Non Elect Salvation Possibility” part:

This paper studies an entirely new concept which is non elect salvation. I invented the academic term “Non Elect Salvation” to denote this possibility. The idea is that there is a salvation outside of the Christian Salvation (which is the well known Elect Salvation) and it differs in the time which it occurs (second resurrection), the final abode (final new earth), the judgment it endures (saved by fire, purified, sanctified) and even the type of bodily resurrection (terrestrial) which entails it. The recipients of this salvation could include both fallen Christians as well as non-Christians. A structure of proof is presented based on the fundamental notion of “no prophecy is of any private interpretation” (2 Peter 1:20) where the Chiliasm Church Fathers St. Justin of Rome (Justin Martyr) and St. Irenaeus of Lyons are primarily consulted followed by Tertullian, St. Methodius of Olympus and St. Victorinus of Pettau too. Where there is difference in their writings, I prefer to stick to St. Justin and St. Irenaeus for accuracy because they are earlier and boast of a closer relationship to the lineage of the Blessed apostles themselves. A key point to note is the challenge to the popular modern view that 1 Corinthians 15:50 – 52 refers to rapture but these Chiliasm fathers seem to point to 1000 years in human body first before a change into no more flesh and blood (or angelic) at the end of the Millennial Reign and other aspects are presented to match it.

Remember that a PHD in one denomination won’t even be considered a pass in another denomination (e.g. Pentecostal versus Reformed).

This book is available for free and also purchase. Why both? It’s for free so that you’re not discriminated from its content just because you cannot afford it or if you cannot pay for it for some reasons. It’s sold for a minimum price for the “work part” which I have done such as “research & time spent on it” while “my interpolations” are for free since I cannot confirm its accuracy. This means I never sold to you the “possibility” part which is “free”.

Yes, nothing is free in this world theoretically because God promised “treasure in heaven” for any “earthly or spiritual goods we share in Charity style” and so that’s what we should aim for [728]. If I get any money from the sales, I can use it for my survival too and so, I thank God for such persons as well.

Some have said that the book is heavily based on quoting other writings and Church Fathers rather than my own personal opinions. This is true and intentional because I am not here to share some new heretical thoughts but rather do an honest look into Chiliasm Church Father quotes which exist and consider possibilities of doctrine from them. Think of it like theological archaeology where even in conventional archaeology, the archaeologist doesn’t create anything new but only tries to rediscover the past with his “new interpolations” based on “evidences” which he can collect. A similar work is done here by me except that it’s in the field of theology and specifically, Chiliasm for the most part and other subtopics at times.

A note: Interesting 2024 university ranking in image (next page). I think it’s reliable especially in regard to “new significant discoveries in those fields”. If anyone challenges a ranking like this, they just need to show how their “university discoveries” are “more significant” since other factors are not core academic reasons but rather are just subjective opinions or experiences.

For me, “theological discoveries are No. 1” since Daniel 12:3 Prophesies that to shine in higher heavens level than even converting many to righteousness which is compared to lower stars level (if the Bible compares, we must).

Remember, the “Prosperity Gospel” comparisons such as “who has more money?” or even “earthly physical beauty etc.” has “no verse” in Scripture for ‘heavenly reward context’ indicating that these things have no “eternal” value say in regards to “greater final heavenly glory” etc. implying that such things are “vanity” (now, if someone says otherwise, ask them, “which Verse?” and don’t be deceived).

“And those who have insight will shine like the glow of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.” [729]

My sample photos around early year 2024.

Reflection

Martin Luther rephrased means that justification comes by faith alone but the faith which saves is never alone and is accompanied by good works. Missions is obligatory for every Christian based on the Great Commission but it’s not just about converting to Christianity as Christ also Said to “teach them to observe all that I commanded you” (Matthew 28:20) which includes His holiness commands, His Charity Doctrine commands, both of which are found in the Gospels and the third is His “Written” New Testament Tradition commands (1 Corinthians 14:37) which was taught in every church (2 Thessalonians 2:15) and not the Corinthians only (1 Corinthians 4:17). Crowning and higher final rewards require us to follow New Testament rules (2 Timothy 2:5) and reward is not based on number of converts only which is lower stars level glory but accuracy or insight even into prophecy and doctrine which if more accurate, shines as heavens level glory in comparison as Daniel 12:3 reveals. Relative measure sets in as “more is given, more is required” (Luke 12:48) to attain to final reward or get a beating as Christ Taught also that a poor widow’s giving of love with 2 coins (Luke 21:1 – 3) which may not have tangible effects compared to rich’s giving which fed many but yet He Said she gave more and so merits more treasure in heaven and reveals her heart of love in Luke 12:33 – 34 (so analogy of almost no conversion but accuracy versus many conversion but lesser accuracy).

Here’s a list of my writings and research on various topic and comments added:

Important Note: Though sometimes I write in a way that may give the feel that “possibility” might just be true and refute the ideas against it, it does NOT necessarily mean I am “right” simply because I am well aware that I can be misinterpreting (but in light of these First Christianity quotes, I also could be right) and that’s why I present all this honestly as a “possibility” only either way and accept whichever God Reveals as Right One Day. Here are links for free pdf download for all these books:

i) #DialoguesBook https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZDghJN2eq7MyygtUpbNVFW—LGorSMv/view?usp=share_link

ii) #BibleandChurchFathersQuoteBook https://drive.google.com/file/d/1__t7iB0HZsI4P6dqXAxxBjk_WnC1J2wb/view?usp=share_link

iii) #SafeRouteScripturallyBook

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HUXXa2kgpImEpVWFg4AN0SBc0x4ulSLn/view?usp=share_link

iv) #EternalHellAnnihilationUniversalismBook

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N5bK-LoBAg4VQN8eLtVWsqkQyoGE0Ad_/view?usp=sharing

v) #MysteryoftheKingdomofHeavenBook

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-zX7XgzguBYHkXWucUZ6xfMInbwtj0Z3/view?usp=share_link

vi) #Edu4LifeBook

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XZDENeSl6mNPi6hyfGqvzBJCBlzAoqM9/view?usp=share_link

vii) #ChiliasmBook

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IzLcp1E-YoDtpAGY9qfnLeCL7ojc6-nj/view?usp=sharing

viii) #DoctrineBook or #BookofDoctrine

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12QmUFyND5rTAZo4jT5M_qRAukf-hnRBD/view?usp=sharing

ix) #MyCV15Oct2023

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wkVRrNxO2XSsy-YbyNWuCbuA5aLl3yeV/view?usp=sharing

x) #LastBook
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wjDRr6lzDQ-4D60J8sqmDH-S60tCqQIR/view?usp=sharing End. 8/8/2024. Thank you.

Links for my free YouTube Christian Songs

YouTube Links Jonathan Christian Songs

1. (#JonathanChristianSong1): Saviour of the World

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/JrX9D47KsHc

2. (#JonathanChristianSong2): Rest in You

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/z6roJ7_YNJY

3. (#JonathanChristianSong3): The Greatest Story Ever Told

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/tKRJvujGmxg

4. (#JonathanChristianSong4): Heaven’s Only King

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/Vfw00q_3e4E

5. (#JonathanChristianSong5): God of the Fatherless

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/diLoh50o_-g

6. (#JonathanChristianSong6): You Are

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/l0f_ZPFWemM

7. (#JonathanChristianSong7): First

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/nyxDyimO-bo

8. (#JonathanChristianSong8): Saviour of the World II

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/gxho4cinzV4

9. (#JonathanChristianSong9): When You

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/N4XPn335buc

10.(#JonathanChristianSong10): Better Than

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/UJDTAC_0rB8

11.(#JonathanChristianSong11): Just God

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/116dkw3iPvg

12. (#JonathanChristianSong12): Jesus in You

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/h9XRnX2iOwM

13. (#JonathanChristianSong13): Free

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/INc-XHQtdrs

14. (#JonathanChristianSong14): Home

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/ZEftvhY1Xls

15. (#JonathanChristianSong15): You are God

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/f4FdmiAFppQ

16. (#JonathanChristianSong16): Christ is Risen

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/UgBcIDOrViE

17. (#JonathanChristianSong17): Heaven

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/D2dK-ACgcNA

18. (#JonathanChristianSong18): Beautiful Reason

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/VlhjcTpxB_k

19. (#JonathanChristianSong19): God Wins

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/PKWcwdV00WM

20. (#JonathanChristianSong20): The Answer I

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/hdnpWIea540

21. (#JonathanChristianSong21): Son of God

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/whsdRkx5iBI

22. (#JonathanChristianSong22): Apocatastasis

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/ZBV5AW2uAQM

23. (#JonathanChristianSong23): The Gospel

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/ZUJtkKcfVzA

24. (#JonathanChristianSong24): Christ is Born

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/8fiD-muVL8s

25. (#JonathanChristianSong25): The One

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/GthdVN0Wbc4

26. (#JonathanChristianSong26): He

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/dci5Y27iaw8

27. (#JonathanChristianSong27): The Anthem of the Redeemed

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/7h5gJkK5V7s

28. (#JonathanChristianSong28): The Promise

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/0zm9Gvpiphc

29. (#JonathanChristianSong29): Worship

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/Hquqs9RQ7-M

30. (#JonathanChristianSong30): Walk with Jesus

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/p2sXqoMFIpY

31. (#JonathanChristianSong31): God is Love

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/Smx4qX1rLmc

32. (#JonathanChristianSong32): You

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/ywYJf692zW8

33. (#JonathanChristianSong33): Your Name

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/KWGAaonDZI0

34. (#JonathanChristianSong34): Christ is Born II

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/WPSg5EQLAjo

35. (#JonathanChristianSong35): Jesus in You II (Acoustic)

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/odgmTtAq5BI

36. (#JonathanChristianSong36): He is Risen

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/Is_m6NZ7GkI

37. (#JonathanChristianSong37): Forgiven

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/UKFDPHffmqA

38. (#JonathanChristianSong38): Remember

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/InExtBJltV0

39. (#JonathanChristianSong39): Tired

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/H7x6xNhglzA

40. (#JonathanChristianSong40): The Day of the LORD

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/tSCZlnoDJBA

41. (#JonathanChristianSong41): JESUS

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/j3qOZFO-uG0

Link for my free YouTube Secular Songs

YouTube Links Jonathan Secular Songs

1. (#JonathanSecularSong1): Lost Without You

YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWht3YTQI48

2. (#JonathanSecularSong2): Wish

YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV2wxspXpTM

3. (#JonathanSecularSong3): Master

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/v2BlJdrD9jI

4. (#JonathanSecularSong4): BolehLah

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/j8Lo5eeRbak

5. (#JonathanSecularSong5): Feelings

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/V0NEEOARzOg

6. (#JonathanSecularSong6): Whisper

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/kA1NhAo1olI

7. (#JonathanSecularSong7): Walking

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/ga2Gk5bYbL0

8. (#JonathanSecularSong8): Vanity

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/oDXWiMsRSro

9. (#JonathanSecularSong9): Sad

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/qKuC5Cr-YTM

10. (#JonathanSecularSong10): Rock

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/kLuUoWLpjSc

11. (#JonathanSecularSong11): Folk Song

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/4ROYqmEn0Lo

12. (#JonathanSecularSong12): Why are you not married?

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/IpRrz_K-JXE

13. (#JonathanSecularSong13): Redemption

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/2Zucv7Qc6Ao

14. (#JonathanSecularSong14): Your Song

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/4Lhu7Sps-XY

15. (#JonathanSecularSong15):

Time II (Rock): https://youtu.be/wJPBJSV4Hw4

16. (#JonathanSecularSong16): BattleCry

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/D_pSkidsLuI

16. (#JonathanSecularSong17): Time

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/xIWwvaubyjs

Summary

1) Jonathan’s “all” Song Playlist

2) Jonathan’s Secular Song Playlist

3) Jonathan’s Christian Song Playlist

Note: These songs don’t include those ones which I have done with my band or collaboration with others (usually just playing an instrument alone but sometimes singing too) which I will try to add to these playlists.

Note: Each Song is shown with lyrics and sometimes a message for us to think about deeply. For example:

(#JonathanSecularSong15): BattleCry

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/D_pSkidsLuI

Note: This song is written to encourage right “mental health”. Too much of judgment by people who they themselves cannot sing nor play any musical instruments and also think just because they make money, God is with them. (So how about some of the worst wicked political leaders (even atheists) or “your enemy religion” which is also richer than you, did more discoveries & pHDs that matter and also are in a richer country, right? So why “your god” couldn’t stop that if you believe in discriminating others so that you can show a testimony that ‘those of your religion/denomination’ are holding power & money in some locality?). If the popular excuse given by those who practice all these evil which is “to protect and provide for their family” to “justify their acts”, then “how is the very existence of their families is good since it led you to these evils?” The True God judges Charity Doctrine and kindness beyond race, religion and family to see if we “loved” for “real” so whether we are poor or rich doesn’t matter, but what matters is what we do with what is given.

(#JonathanSecularSong13): Redemption

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/2Zucv7Qc6Ao

Note: This song is written to encourage freewill and discourage religious persecution sometimes even within the same religion itself and also against nepotism (including racism) and money-loving practices because through all these much blood has been spilled and minorities get discriminated & suffer as the majority seek to establish their monopoly. Let God Judge who is right and wrong while we love each other beyond family, religion and race including our enemies too to be “real”.

(#JonathanSecularSong12): Why are you not married?

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/IpRrz_K-JXE

Note: This song is written to discourage any pre-marital sexual immorality and also to create awareness that marrying for money is wrong so that the younger generation can grow to be more vigilant. The rest is rhetoric speech to expose evil.

For my Biography, Works and CV and other details, it is best listed in link below:

My #ORCID link: https://orcid.org/0009-0008-4669-1077

End. Thank you.

My Awards and prizes

1) Math Olympian for Malaysia to the International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO 2002 at Glasgow, UK).

URL: https://www.imo-official.org/team_r.aspx?code=MAS&year=2002

2) Malaysian National Math Olympiad – 2nd Place Silver (Sulong, Individual) OMK 2002 by PERSAMA.

URL: https://www.persama.org.my/omk/keputusan-omk/keputusan-terdahulu

3) Bronze in National Physics Competition 2000 by Malaysian Institute of Physics (IFM) in Universiti Malaya (UM).

URL (Page 23): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gTYbid_qbcHpXC0ohLVFPqWmJj-380yE/view?usp=sharing

4) Distinction in Senior Division Australian National Chemistry Quiz 2001 (Senior Division by Royal Australian Chemical Institute).

URL (Page 24):