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Can unlearned men be ordained for ministry as Pastors, Bishops, Deacons etc.?

Slide 5 in #MysteriousPPT – Can unlearned men be ordained for ministry as Pastors, Bishops, Deacons etc.?

The Bible records that both Apostles St. Peter and St. John were “uneducated and untrained” men but yet it’s their names which will be honoured by God in His final “City on its Walls” even:

“… Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and untrained men, they marveled. And they realized that they had been with Jesus. …” (Acts 4:13, NKJV)

“… Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.  …” (Revelation 21:14, NKJV)

Where’s the balance?

On one end, we find Bible schools with graduates of “high level” literacy and scrutiny while on the other hand, we find “pastors” with “diploma, bachelor’s degree, masters or even a PHD” who cannot even get an “A1 or A+” for English at SPM level (instead of speaking in ‘heavenly tongues’ (as some claim), why not the God give them ability to speak in actual multiple human languages so at least can preach Gospel in better grammar even if not perfect? Holy Spirit doesn’t make “grammar errors”, right? By claiming otherwise, are they bringing glory to God (how?) or making a mockery of His Blessed Spirit so that they can “make a living”?).

Some Christians mock the ‘government university as low level’ but praise some local Bible schools whose academic level is even “lower”, right? Proof? Ask your pastor or PDH theologian from your “denomination/church” this: ‘If you stand in front of Christ today, are you able to say that you did all your assignments by yourself without any external help from others, no plagiarism and no artificial intelligence usage (AI)?’

Also, for those who say “yes” to the above, in light of the evidences I have presented from Chiliasm Church Fathers, what’s the point of the PHD if it was “wrong” on “prophecy” or on these “theological parts” on Judgment Day? I could be wrong too and that’s why I don’t judge based on these criteria alone but solely on “originality of work and who is quoted (e.g. Chiliasm Fathers)” to be safer and the ones most right (“educated or uneducated” or with “pHD or not”) will be honoured greater as the LORD did to Peter and John. That’s how I see the “fairness” of God in this.

#Illiterate or #Literate #educated or #uneducated #honesty or #cheated to become #Pastor #Doctor #Reverend #HighSchool #Dropout or is #Government low #Standard #PHD or #not #AI #Artificial #Intelligence or #Original #Work #SPM #Degree #Masters #Academics or #Bible #School #Theology or #Prophecy #Accuracy or #HardWork which does #God #Approve and #Fair .

Appendix: An Important Note on Methodology

If you notice, for these Chiliasm books, I did not say that these are done by God’s Grace because I am not sure how accurate they are. Suppose my interpolations presented here became wrong on Judgment Day, then how does it bring glory to God? Hence, I rather leave it as my attempt at prophecy which is allowed as discussed in earlier writings based on Jeremiah 23: 36 – 40 [1].

If I turned out right on Judgment Day, then on that Day I will give all glory to God for His Mercy of revealing all these to me. My point is, I do not want to prematurely claim the truth of a prophecy which can neither be proven nor disproven conclusively before it comes to pass. All I am concerned is to present it rigorously with Chiliasm Church Father quotes so that I am honest even with the ambiguity which arises from such writings based on preserved Christian history. Hence, I rest my case.

P/S: all these aspects can be compared against the Bible Verses claims made in the pages of both the Chiliasm Prophecy and Non Elect Salvation Possibility book. Both these books (Non Elect Salvation Possibility and Chiliasm Prophecy) which I am referring to, refers to their latest update (version) on 21 September 2024 whose pdf download links are given in the “Sources” section.

These Non Elect Salvation quotes from the Shepherd of Hermas which is said to be Scripture Level by St. Irenaeus of Lyons and Tertullian, both Chiliasm Church Fathers, are intriguing. Interestingly, for example, in the Non Elect Salvation submission pages 27 – 28, Tertullian himself had trouble with the Non Elect Salvation quotes of the Shepherd of Hermas (which proves this part is preserved authentically according to even Tertullian himself who is disagreeing or having trouble with its meaning) but yet please observe carefully Tertullian’s wise and scholarly reply (no wonder Tertullian is the Father of Latin Christianity and Founder of Western Theological Scholarship) since he writes as follows, [2]

“But I would yield my ground to you, if the scripture of the Shepherd, which is the only one which favours adulterers, had deserved to find a place in the Divine canon; if it had not been habitually judged by every council of Churches (even of your own) among apocryphal and false (writings); … I, however, imbibe the Scriptures of that Shepherd who cannot be broken.” [3]

Basically, Tertullian in his discussion here (with Bishop of Rome, Pope Callixtus I at that time) is saying he has problem because the Shepherd of Hermas since it gives some type of Non Elect Salvation to “adulterers” (implied) and that’s a reason for his hesitance that it has been included in the Divine Canon (e.g. Muratorian/Roman Canon which are first oldest known Bible Canon, etc.) but yet he says that he will “imbibe” (absorb) it since it is “Scripture which cannot be broken”.

Ah, that’s how we are supposed to do proper academic reporting and commenting honestly based on evidence like this regardless if we agree to the Shepherd of Hermas or not like how Tertullian did and that’s exactly the methodology I followed.

Also, here is a set of Bible verses showing “sharp and no small debate” clearly between “Christian versus Christian” (both “believers with the Holy Spirit”) but yet one of them can be wrong meaning God allows free will in doctrine and will reward those more accurate later and so we can likewise present both sides like this which is Biblical:

“1And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question. … 5But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” [4]

Remember, what’s so “academic” if our beliefs turn out wrong not just on this topic of Non Elect but also all other theological topics too as I demonstrated evidences of quotes from Chiliasm Church Fathers in this writing? Please don’t misunderstand me as I am very aware that my interpretations and interpolations regarding Non Elect Salvation could be wrong too and that’s why I conclude this topic as a possibility only and not doctrine so that I don’t accidentally mislead anyone.

Any reader can see that I have already revealed this side of the Non Elect Salvation Possibility and hence it is their personal duty to check for arguments against it from other sides and either choose their belief or be neutral about it to be safe.

Also, using internet sources or hardcopies of books makes no difference here since these are all well known writings that are translated scholarly. I believe that the translations in English of the writings I used are universally accepted as accurate and since I cannot read the original language, this is the best I can do. Also, I doubt that by reading it in the original language would change any meaning of the translation in English unless someone from your side can show it. So, it’s just whether we interpret the translation/original (just like the Bible) available for St. Irenaeus of Lyons or other Chiliasm Church Fathers is accurate or not of which I sought to give my views (which could be wrong) but neither is your orthodox views on it is necessarily right either (but could be) and so, for that final word, we leave it to God.

For example, your orthodox view that St. Irenaeus of Lyons (or even St. Justin of Rome, Tertullian, St. Methodius of Olympus [no dubious writings which didn’t exist during his lifetime period] or even St. Victorinus, i.e. all “Chiliasm” Church Fathers whom I quoted) which claims that all of them prayed to Virgin Mary has “not” even one quote in their “own writings” but I guess it’s ‘scholarly assumed with no proof in certain journals, and among their editors and others‘.

Difference is, I did no such assumptions here and only interpolate based on some actual existing quotes. No personal insult meant but just stating that sometimes an academic journal claims “high level publication” just because they use the original languages or original manuscripts which are just as ambiguous with no proof of such quotes but are just “assumed” by certain journal readers and editors, sadly. This is what I mean as rigour, i.e. all claims and interpolations must be accompanied with some type of quotes or if not, just left it as it is for true academic scholarship, accuracy and honesty.

In another example, a Calvinism journal wrote:

Thanks for your submission. I’ll take a look at this submission and give you initial feedback by the end of October.”

I responded in advance as follows (for constructive academia):

“I welcome your feedback. I may give mine too in response of yours should you rebut it so both sides can be well represented.”  

Regarding university supremacy, here are my comments: Actually,  it’s not about Harvard [5]or any other universities but as I mentioned before, it’s about number of new significant discoveries where the most important discoveries are theological since only these affect eternity which should be presented fairly and let God Decide which is right that day and reward with higher heavens level glory as Daniel 12:3 prophesies (so, there is no need to boycott or play racial games or religion games or even denominational games or even gender games or other nepotism since the real God doesn’t play all these games, right? Shalom).

However, it would be sad if “Non Elect Salvation” possibility turns out to be not true on Judgment Day and so it is my sincere prayer and hope that as many readers of this book believe in Christ regardless of whether “Non Elect Salvation” is true or not so that our faith is not conditional upon things which we are not sure. I mean we can hope for it but we cannot fixate upon it lest it becomes an idol (if wrong) but at the same time I am glad I revealed all these in detailed points so God can see that it is responsibly interpolated even if wrong and so He can have Mercy since it’s so difficult to know for sure in light of all these evidences!

I believe that a Christian will believe in Christ regardless of whether Non Elect Salvation possibility is true or not and so only the reward level for this part can be affected and not our Salvation itself if viewed responsibly like this (being neutral). Last but not least, I do not see it as wrong even if I sell this writing as a book commercially since I see it as getting paid for the research work of presenting all these historical quotes and for my interpolation part, I consider giving it free of charge  theoretically since I cannot be certain whether I am right or not.

Remember, if other authours can make money by selling “fiction or storybooks”, then what is wrong even in selling some personal research on prophecy like this discussing possibilities by quoting early Christian and Jewish writings?

Yes, a prophecy book must quote many others so that it’s not a “private interpretation” where even if wrong, at least God can see the honesty with evidence where I believe that God won’t charge us for the wrong evidence since it’s beyond our reach and we just made speculations or interpolations based on those writings. Maranatha! even so come Lord Jesus. Amen.

Thank you for reading this!


[1] Ramachandran, Jonathan. Non Elect Salvation Possibility, Page 48 and Chiliasm Prophecy, Pages 4, 98.

[2] A Catholic encyclopedia writes, “St. Irenaeus and Tertullian (in his Catholic days) cite the “Shepherd” as Scripture. Tertullian, when a Montanist, implies that Pope St. Callistus had quoted it as an authority (though evidently not as Scripture),” in his reply here.  www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/hermas

[3] Tertullian (c. 155 AD – c. 240 AD), On Modesty (“De pudicitia”), Chapter 10,  www.newadvent.org/fathers/0407.htm (4 August 2024).

[4] Acts 15:1 – 2, 5 (NKJV). biblehub.com/nkjv/acts/15.htm

[5] Newspaper. Times of India. Indian applicants likely to be excluded from Harvard’s application process. 1 October 2024. timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/indian-harvard-malcolm-gladwell-admission-revenge-of-the-tipping-point/articleshow/113766629.cms

Some claim that the “government exam levels are low” but they themselves never scored “A1/A+” say in just ‘school level SPM’ exams for the subjects which they claim to be ‘good at’. Are they lower than that? Still not too late: Can sit as private candidate for ‘any age’ I think. I mean even with a PHD, can you get an A for your subject matter say when you sit for STPM exams today? If yes, then “good”.

#Exam #SPM #STPM #A1 #A #PHD #high or #Low #Level #Real #Value or just #administrative #Tricks #Games #does #your #God #approve #such #ways?

Slide 6 in #MysteriousPPT – What does the Bible Say about “speaking in heavenly tongues” versus “speaking in actual human languages”?

Sometimes same pastors who speak in tongues run Bible School programs with pastors not even doing their own assignments honestly (let’s see if I lied or God reveals it true) on Judgment Day; would the Holy Spirit approve?).

I wrote this in Slide 5 earlier:


(instead of speaking in ‘heavenly tongues’ (as some claim), why not the God give them ability to speak in actual multiple human languages so at least can preach Gospel in better grammar even if not perfect? Holy Spirit doesn’t make “grammar errors”, right? By claiming otherwise, are they bringing glory to God (how?) or making a mockery of His Blessed Spirit so that they can “make a living”?

Here are Bible verses to match its meaning:

1) Getting it right in “Prophecy” (e.g. “Chiliasm” Quotes) is more important than “tongues”

5I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; [a]for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.” (1 Corinthians 14:5, NKJV)

Comment: These verses are speaking about the “real” speaking in tongues. For the modern Pentecostal claim, I remain neutral since I cannot see the ‘spirit realm’ to determine it. I won’t participate in it since it’s too risky. For those confident, please ponder this haunting question seriously: “If you stand in front of the Most Blessed Holy Spirit of God, can you say He made those ‘strange sounds’ through you which was Heavenly language? And if true, blessed are you but if not, what do you think He may Judge you with? Are you that confident? Let God decide but I put this forth to show how much we should respect God.”

2) Speaking in tongues benefits no one unless it is interpreted

6But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?” … 13Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.“ (1 Corinthians 14:6, 13, NKJV)

Comment: Reducing grammar errors or even improving oneself in language (no need to be perfect but an effort) is good since you’re making others to “understand you”. So, if a person is really having the gift of tongues at a “high” level as some modern ones claim, wouldn’t their “language” skills be magnificent too since this verse says that they (‘same person’) should be equally good in “interpreting” it, right?

3) This Bible verse by the No. 1 speaking in tongues person (Apostle St. Paul) who says that yet it’s better to speak 5 words of usual language which everyone understands than “10, 000 words in unknown tongue” if “others don’t understand” it

18I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.” (1 Corinthians 14:18 – 19, NKJV)

Source: biblehub.com/nkjv/1_corinthians/14.htm

#Tongues even #real type had #Bible #rules and caused #understanding with #interpretation but #prophecy and #accuracy is more #important be #neutral #skip #risky #modern #pentecostal ways #careful .

Slide 7 in #MysteriousPPT – LIARS never say they won’t do where even if it’s done in the future, in the time period in between, they will still be JUDGED as LIARS. Past sins don’t matter when repented but today, are we still in sin?

Here is a set of Bible verses requiring it for HEAVEN SALVATION CONTEXT and so, if we are such we won’t make it:

“… 1Lord, who may [a]abide in Your tabernacle? Who may dwell in Your holy hill? … He who swears to his own hurt and does not change; …” (Psalm 15:1, 4, NKJV)

Notice carefully that even a person who “gives his word” (‘swear’) in the above which Christ Said don’t swear anymore must do what he said and if not, they cannot abide in His Tabernacle (“Heaven” Context). If they do it in the “future” and if it’s before their death, it may be forgiven them then or vice versa, right?

Example: If God shuts heaven out for those who just don’t keep “their word” (‘swear’ context here), how much more for those who “cheat” in “business” context where say “take payment” but “never do the work” which is “worse”, right? Let each man decide his fate. Three of the 10 Commandments are broken here which is don’t steal and the other is don’t bear false witness (or don’t lie) and yet another is don’t covet (take what is not yours) where all these come under that context (Exodus 20:15, 16, 17 i.e. commandments 8, 9, 10).

Think deeper: If you got into an accident today or died, do you think all these people who cheated or used you are going to care? If no, then why do you worry about their friendship instead of God?

#Money #Sins #Danger where without #Financial #Holiness there is no #Enter #Heaven #Context #Bible #God Says as #ItisWritten #repent and be #saved no #Partiality nor #Liars .

Slide 8 in #MysteriousPPT – Financial Sins – What Would [Lord] Jesus Do? (WWJD) – New Testament Context

Regarding “Financial Holiness”, note that it breaks three of the 10 Commandments when undone which are don’t steal and the other is don’t bear false witness (or don’t lie) and yet another is don’t covet (take what is not yours) where all these come under that context (Exodus 20:15, 16, 17 i.e. commandments 8, 9, 10).

Example “Financial Unholiness” deeds: Are we able to stand in front of Christ today and say,

i) “We have never taken a salary/job which is more/favoured because we are of a certain race/religion/denomination?”

ii) “We have never gotten a qualification be it diploma or PHD as a Pastor even (not secular only) by not doing our assignments by ourselves or simply grade a ‘closed-university paper’ by giving pass/high mark unfairly while failing/giving low mark unfairly to others?” This is finance context since it affects job/salary for that person while discriminating those treated unfairly.

iii) “We have never given our word in finance context and never fulfilled it?” (Psalm 15:1, 4) etc.

In the New Testament, Zacchaeus was one such a “fraud” and Lord Jesus Christ only declared his “salvation” not due to a simple “sorry” (in words) but when Zacchaeus promised to “restore 4 times more to the one he wronged” which means FINANCE Old Testament LAWS may apply as part of “Eternal Life” requirement for “love neighbour as yourself” context (Matthew 19:16 – 30); so, if anyone is forgiven without restoring “fourfold” back but just by secretly saying sorry to the Lord, I think the “wronged” person will be given back the restoration/reward for it in future resurrection context (God doesn’t have dirty ways).

A particular interesting Torah (Law) Bible  verse is Leviticus 6:2 – 6 which speaks of even a wrong “deposit” for work or what a person has “sworn falsely” in regard to work but did not do must return back 1.2 TIMES to the “WRONGED” as an OFFERING to the LORD but can be up to 5 times when seen with other verses for type of cheating.

“ 2“If a person sins and commits a trespass against the Lord by lying[a] to his neighbor about what was delivered to him for safekeeping, or about [b]a pledge, or about a robbery, or if he has extorted from his neighbor, 3or if he has found what was lost and lies concerning it, and swears falsely—in any one of these things that a man may do in which he sins: 4then it shall be, because he has sinned and is guilty, that he shall [c]restore what he has stolen, or the thing which he has extorted, or what was delivered to him for safekeeping, or the lost thing which he found, 5or all that about which he has sworn falsely. He shall restore its full value, add one-fifth more to it, and give it to whomever it belongs, on the day of his trespass offering. 6And he shall bring his trespass offering to the Lord,” (Leviticus 6:2 – 6, NKJV)

“Then Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.” (Luke 19:8, NKJV)

“If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and slaughters it or sells it, he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep.” (Exodus 22:1, NKJV)

#Financial #Holiness #Torah #Law #Lord #Jesus #Christ #New #Testament #Zacchaeus case #Fraud #Restore #Fourfold #Discussion.

Slide 9 in #MysteriousPPT – There is no True Religion nor Perfection without Charity Doctrine by Relative Measure

  1. Bible Verse for no True Religion without Charity Doctrine (help orphans and widows, even the poor) + Holiness (the keep “unspotted” from the World part):

Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.” (James 1:27, NKJV)

  • Bible Verse for no Perfection without Charity Doctrine (i.e. Give from ‘what you have’ and not from donation money only “to the poor” and not use Charity to gain love offerings, contacts and better lives for yourselves and your families via “favours”, implied for ‘Christlike’ (follow Him)’):

Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” (Matthew 19:21, NKJV)

  • Nothing else is stated as “God’s Will for Money by Christ apart from CHARITY DOCTRINE”. Indeed, one serves either “God or Money” (Luke 16:13) and fulfilling these verses is proof:

“ 9Here’s the lesson: Use your worldly resources to benefit others and make friends. Then, when your possessions are gone, they will welcome you to an eternal home. … 13“No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and be enslaved to money.” (Luke 16:9, 13, NLT)


Someone said: “But none of them are gonna try to fulfill Matthew 19:21

Reply:

Neither is any Christian including ourselves fulfilling Matthew 19:21 right? We just do what we can based on our ability and let God Judge which can be considered equivalent fulfillment since even the Apostles had a good safety net of income support from believers even if they didn’t carry money.

So, if you don’t have such financial support from Church Money, relative measure can influence it where you can hoard for your living and later give it via a will at end of life which I think can count for it in some measure as common hoarded money was present in Acts 2 and 4 like that among those who renounced.

#CharityDoctrine #Spending on #Alms rather than #Prosperity #Gospel to follow #WillofGod when #Plenty . In short, #Give #Money to a person and #what they #spend on and #whom will tell you #all the #truth about them and #who they #love don’t be #deceived .

Slide 10 in #MysteriousPPT – What did Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ Teach about Entering Heaven? Do His Commands listed in Matthew 5 to Matthew 7 primarily and New Testament Traditions not written there adds further to rewards.

Question: “But is this a command from GOD? Matthew 5:48 | King James Version 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

Reply: It’s an ending exhortation in Matthew 5 to 7’s Sermon on the Mount where as we fulfill more and more of those commands we are moving towards God Who alone Perfectly fulfills it (emulating Him). He knows none will be perfect to fulfill it but that doesn’t change the fact that the commands is to do as much as possible where only those who exceed the “Pharisees’ level of righteousness” (human level so possible) by doing these New Testament Commands will enter heaven, verses:

For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. … Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. … For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?” (Matthew 5:20, 7:21, 5:46, NKJV)

Notice that all these verses are from “Same Sermon on the Mount” so “same” context and 5:20 gives “rule for entering heaven” while 7:21 reveals those who fall short of it “never enter heaven” and 5:46 reveals that loving only your “own race, own family, own father/mother, own brother/sister, own son/daughter, own Church, own denomination, own religion, own wife/husband, own girlfriend/boyfriend” etc. only and all that risk NOT ENTERING HEAVEN since they LOVE only THOSE WHO LOVE THEM. Any Christian (including me and you) must demonstrate it in actual action and not words/debates only. Let God Decide as these Verses Reveal.

Example: Some must have so much “pride” if they can even take a title of “pastor” without even doing their “own assignments” and how much more those who endorse them or give high marks?  Also, it takes so much “pride” to “take another person’s money for business” but ”never do the task”; should “never use the money” until “work is done”, right? Feeding even their ‘families etc.’ with it and claiming to be ‘providers in eyes of those who don’t know’? Worst is, they never admit their sins publicly (Let God decide if He Approves all this or if whose sins are more).

#Perfect #God Alone #exceed #Pharisees #Human #level #Righteousness so #can to #enter #heaven by doing #Sermon on #Mount #Lord #Jesus #Christ #Commands.

Slide 11 in #MysteriousPPT – My point is this: If you Preach like John Wesley on these Topics today, they kick you out of Church Ministry or don’t work with you and then ask “why are you not attending the Church (Methodist or otherwise)?”

John Wesley – Main Founder of Methodist Churches Beliefs Example. He didn’t condemn Peter Bohler who was a Christian Universalist to Hell and Praised him even to have “fruits of living faith” but he condemned “Rich Christians” to “Hell-Fire” if they accumulated wealth “beyond needs” (unless say extras given to Charity via Will)

“… Monday, April 6.—I had a long conversation with Peter Bohler. I marvel how I refrain from joining these men. I scarcely ever see any of them but my heart burns within me. I long to be with them, and yet I am kept from them.  Thursday, May 7.—I reminded the United Society that many of our brethren and sisters had not needful food; many were destitute of convenient clothing; many were out of business, and that without their own fault; and many sick and ready to perish:  that I had done what in me lay to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to employ the poor, and to visit the sick; but was not, alone, sufficient for these things; and therefore desired all whose hearts were as my heart: …” [The Journal of John Wesley. Pages 52, 55, 83. The Tyndale Series of Great Biographies.. By Hugh Price Hughes, Augustine Birrell, K. C. and edited by Percy Livingstone Parker. Published by Moody Press (Chicago, 1951). Available online: https://ccel.org/w/wesley/journal/cache/journal.pdf ]

Please take note how even such a highly anointed level in the Holy Spirit preacher (by God’s Grace), John Wesley, writes in his own words above (in his journal) regarding the “unkind attitude of Whitefield”, how he “longs” to be with “Bohler type Moravian Christian Universalists” despite the fact that he knows about it and is supposed to keep away? And how Wesley’s thought next revolved around “Charity Doctrine” which was highly emphasized by the Moravians too. So even the great faith of John Wesley had all these traits and best is, this is not an interpretation but his own words in his own journal. So if we emulate Wesley’s faith likewise and keep the weaker non elect salvation as a possibility, it seems similar, isn’t it? Mysterious indeed.

 Journal of Moravian History. Peter Boehler’s Universalist Letter by Jared S. Burkholder. Volume 23, Issue 2, October 2023. 129–142. The Abstract reads, “Although the belief in universalism has been attributed to Peter Boehler since the eighteenth century, the matter has not been clearly documented. However, a letter, written by Boehler and preserved in the Moravian Archives, provides greater clarity as it contains a defense of a future “restitution of all things.” Possibly sent to George Whitefield, the letter detailed in this article not only provides evidence of Boehler’s restorationist beliefs, but also points to the role that universalism may have played in the Moravians’ 1740 schism with Whitefield”. Available online: https://doi.org/10.5325/jmorahist.23.2.0129

Hebrews 13:7 reads, “7Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow, considering the outcome of their conduct” (NKJV).

“… 13 You have thrown away the treasure in heaven: God and Christ are lost! You have gained riches, and hell-fire! … 14. O “how hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!”… 22. Thirdly, seek not to increase in goods. Lay not up for thyself “treasures upon earth.” This is a flat, positive command; full as clear as “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” How then is it possible for a rich man to grow richer without denying the Lord that bought him? Yea, how can any man who has already the necessaries of life gain or aim at more, and be guiltless? …” (Sermon on the Mount, 8 by John Wesley, Sermon 28, Points 13, 14, 22, Text from the 1872 edition – Thomas Jackson, editor)

Source: wordsofwesley.com/libtext.cfm?srm=28

#Preach like #John #Wesley #Methodist  on #Financial #Holiness and #mingle even with #Christian #Universalists if they #live according to such levels of #Money #Purity since it will #not #affect #Salvation even if #wrong .

Slide 12 in #MysteriousPPT – My point is this: If you Preach like Martin Luther on these Topics today, they kick you out of Church Ministry or don’t work with you and then ask “why are you not attending the Church (Lutheran or otherwise)?”


Martin Luther clearly teaches that “riches” without “sufficient Charity Doctrine” leads to “Hell”. Also, Luther teaches that Universalism is false but does not condemn Non  Elect Salvation Possibility after death but says none can prove it.

So, in regard to my “Non Elect Salvation” possibility writings/book, let God Decide if it’s true or not but it’s not heresy to attempt it as a “possibility” as Luther’s own quote here rings.

  1. Luther’s quote for “had not charity enough” leads to “hell”

“Therefore also Christ at the last day will adduce this unmercifulness as the worst injury done against himself, even all that we have done out of uncharitableness, and will himself utter the curse: “I was hungry and thirsty and ye gave me no meat, ye gave me no drink, etc. Depart ye, therefore, ye cursed, into everlasting, hellish fire,” etc. He warns and exhorts us faithfully from pure grace and mercy. Whoever will not accept this, let him choose the worse and eternal damnation. Consider the rich man, Lk. xvi. 19 seq., who, although he saw poor Lazarus daily lying at his gate full of sores, had not charity enough to give him a bundle of straw or allow him the crumbs from under his table. But see how fearfully he was requited, that in hell he would gladly have given a hundred thousand ducats if he could only boast of having given him a thread.” (Commentary on the Sermon on the Mount, TRANSLATED BY CHARLES A, HAY, THE FIFTH CHAPTER OF ST. MATTHEW, Verse 7, Page 29, D. D. PHILADELPHIA: LUTHERAN PUBLICATION SOCIETY. 1892. By Martin Luther, First Protestant and Founder of Lutheran Churches).

Source: www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/luther/Commentary%20on%20The%20Sermon%20on%20The%20-%20Martin%20Luther.pdf

  • Notice carefully how Dr. Luther differentiates between “Universalism” (no possibility) from Non Elect Salvation (“possible”, but no one can prove it).

“There are those among us, since the times of Origen and his followers, who have considered it too hard, too severe, and contrary to God’s goodness that he should cast people away and create them for eternal torment. … It would be a completely different question to ask whether God could grant faith to a few at the moment of their death or after death and thereby save them through faith. Who would doubt that he could do this? But no one can prove that he does do this … St. Paul speaks the truth: it is God’s will that everyone be made well – for without his will it does not happen. But it does not follow from this that all people are saved.” (Martin Luther. Letter from Martin Luther to Hans von Rechenberg. Issued from Wittenberg on the Monday after the assumption of Mary [August 18], 1522. Translated by Rev. William Wangelin of Hudsonville, MI.   storage.cloversites.com/holycrosslutheranchurch2/documents/Martin%20Luther%20to%20Hans%20von%20Rechenberg%201522_2.pdf .)

For #Protestants #Preach like #Martin #Luther on this topic of #Charity #Doctrine and consider #NonElectSalvation as a #Possibility while #reject #full #Universalism.


Slide 13 in #MysteriousPPT – What is the Worst sin of all and who commits it? In the Bible, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ taught that the worst sin is in “words” referring to anything spoken against the Most Blessed “Holy Spirit” of God.

In short, I believe that a person making this sin indicates great “pride” within because they try to “represent the Holy Spirit” which is like trying to “elevate themselves to be prophets” of which they can only be justified if every single time they quote the “Holy Spirit told me or is speaking” must be 100% correct since He does not make mistakes.

I believe that God can save from every denomination of Christianity but the most dangerous part is making any error while “claiming God told me so or Holy Spirit spoke to me” which breaks 3rd Greatest Commandment (i.e. don’t take God’s Name in Vain) unless you’re 100% right that “God/His Blessed Spirit Spoke to you”.


All other type of error can be forgiven for blasphemy even as Christ Said in Matthew 12:31 – 32 except the Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. So, quoting an argument but not quoting “the Holy Spirit told me” can be forgiven if wrong (which is what I do when I state “academic possibilities”).

31“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.” (Matthew 12:31 – 32, NKJV)

In Chiliasm considerations, the “age to come” is the 1000 Millennial Reign of Christ and so these cannot be Elect Salvation. Whether is there hope of beyond that, let God decide but please don’t try it. Here’s Christ’s Own Words describing the “age to come” to refer to “First Resurrection in Chiliasm Timeline” as like the verses above, it’s compared against “this age”:

34Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. ” (Luke 20:34 – 36, NKJV)

#Worst #Sin is to #Quote the #Holy #Spirit #Speaks to #me or is giving a #message but He did #not which is a #symptom which only the #heretics with #most #pride #fall into possibly #eternal #damnation.

Slide 14 in #MysteriousPPT – What is Pride? Christ the Humblest one debated religious leaders for Doctrinal corrections and so doing that is not pride. Pride is linked to heart and Christ taught that Charity Doctrine reveals “heart” vs prosperity gospel as ‘earthly’. So, sin of pride and money link is this: how highly you think of yourself, that’s how much you will spend on yourself vs how much you refrain to give to Charity in relative measure as Christ Taught in Luke 12:30 – 35.

You don’t need to be a Christian to see this easy fact that ‘prideful’ people don’t speak up against wrongdoings or even preach Judgment/Hell because they don’t want their source of income or contacts to be affected. Another type of ‘pride’ is doing Charity as even a ‘head’ (but they don’t put their own money as donation) and choose say their ‘pastor friend’ ministry only as its main recipient instead of fairly giving to ‘any Christian’ to other unbelievers too to fulfill Christ’s “love your enemies etc.”. Why? So when they visit these ‘pastor friends’, they can go for ‘nice holiday’ and call it ‘missions’ even ‘eating off the poor who spend on them thinking they’re doing it for men of God and may reap prosperity’. Is this “Christlike”?

Example: St. Augustine clearly sees “prosperity gospel” Christians going to “Hell/purgatory” according to ‘how much they loved earthly money/wealth’ which proves ‘salvation after spirit world judgment is possible’ where I don’t think these become “Christ’s Bride” but could be “Non Elect Salvation”.

“And it is not impossible that something of the same kind may take place even after this life. It is a matter that may be inquired into, and either ascertained or left doubtful, whether some believers shall pass through a kind of purgatorial fire, and in proportion as they have loved with more or less devotion the goods that perish, be less or more quickly delivered from it.” (St. Augustine of Hippo. The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love. Chapters 69 and 70. www.newadvent.org/fathers/1302.htm)

St. Augustine of Hippo who is considered as having a high level of spiritual anointing by many Christians (including Catholic, Orthodox and Protestants alike) does not see even universalism believing type of Christians as possessed by the devil or unsaved while our Non Elect Salvation position is much better than universalism (from St. Augustine’s view, implied) and it’s only a possibility and not doctrine, hence risking no one’s faith in such discussions.

“But temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment; for to some, as we have already said, what is not remitted in this world is remitted in the next, that is, they are not punished with the eternal punishment of the world to come.” (St. Augustine of Hippo. The City of God. Book 21. Chapter 13. www.newadvent.org/fathers/120121.htm)

#Pride #Drama in #Charity #Doctrine to #Ministry or #Missions even #Nepotism or using the #poor with false #Prosperity #Promises instead of teaching #Heavenly #Treasure but just do your part let #God #Judge whether say #Augustine of #Hippo was right in #Purgatory and #NonElectSalvation believers are not #heretics based on this alone.

33 Sell what you have and give alms; provide yourselves money bags which do not grow old, a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches nor moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Slide 15 in #MysteriousPPT – Which acts are Charity Doctrine and does your Church’s theology level reach Hell-Fire verse of James 5:3?

Judge without Partiality since God has no favoritism.

“… 1Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! 2Your riches [a]are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. 3Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. …” (James 5:3, NKJV)

1. Just like all Church Fathers and other Protestant Founders quote insufficient Charity Doctrine can lead to Hell, even John Calvin taught the same using James 5:3 here (God made sure all of them taught right on this meaning it’s important and so you can’t manipulate their words to say they taught differently either since those “financially unholy” in this merit “hell-fire” since “no sanctification” in these areas as meaning of “covetousness” too in 1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10 who do not inherit God’s Kingdom, don’t be deceived!):

“… 3A witness against you. He confirms the explanation I have already given. For God has not appointed gold for rust, nor garments for moths; but, on the contrary, be has designed them as aids and helps to human life. Therefore, even spending without benefit is a witness of inhumanity. The rusting of gold and silver will be, as it were, the occasion of inflaming the wrath of God, so that it will, like fire, consume them. …” (John Calvin, Founder of the Reformed Churches and TULIP-Calvinism, Calvin’s Commentary on the Bible, James 5, Verse 3) Source: www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/cal/james-5.html

Note: The commentator adds that this verse is not about “unbelieving Jews” but “rich Christians” in point (136) as follows ‘Besides, it was not unusual, in addresses to Christians, to address unbelievers. Indeed, Paul expressly says, “What have I to do to judge them that are without?” that there were rich men professing the gospel at that time, is evident from James 1:10.’

For anyone who thinks that such Judgment is harsh, please say give a big portion of your money (more than what you have kept for yourself or used for yourself or even given to your own family) say to do some free Gospel work. Imagine the recipient uses it but does not produce either the full music work alone minus any bombastic music video additions even after 10 years. Will you still forgive and be friends? Imagine if someone I know has done that. What right of anger of being exposed do the wrongdoers have in this case? Also, if your support the wrongdoer, please bank in back “your money with 10 years interest to the wronged person” and then “still be friends with the wronged person” because he did “no” wrong in this case, right? If you cannot be friends with the “wronged person” but can accept the “person who is wrong”, isn’t that plain “hypocrisy”? So, how to trust such “friendship” if worse still, all these are by “Christians”? The wronged person’s perspective is simple: forgive but that doesn’t excuse the rebuke given and whether or not the “wrong persons” do back the work in “another 10 years time or not”, he didn’t break any of the 10 Commandments in this (while the wrongdoer may keep breaking the last 3 Commandments as long as these stands, right? What is so Christlike about the person who did the wrong and not repent yet here?). Shouldn’t use money until work is done (men who keep their word). Don’t talk about forgiveness if you have never practiced it at this level since people will forgive anything except money (where even if the wrong person doesn’t do, the wronged person I know will still be friends for real, try it). Remember, buying food for workers is not Charity Doctrine if you use them for jobs and don’t pay fair salary and manipulate other work aspects. How many can stand in front of Christ (not some ‘fake god’) and say they treated and paid their workers right before they did Charity Doctrine and that it’s not to manipulate and get some other work or favours done? Are we “real” to women/family only?

If Non Elect Salvation is true, then Matthew 25:31 – 46 may be revealing the “Surprised Sheep of the nations” who did “Charity Doctrine to Christians” and so, at least try it if you’re a non-Christian since you ain’t going to believe even if Hell is eternal, right? So, I did not manipulate your choice here as both is stated. At least, I tried finding if there’s another interpretation.

#MysteriousPPT Link:

docs.google.com/presentation/d/1req6TrSrDB_I3MD2m8n4N6Am3HdaqXnT/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117647441539375745387&rtpof=true&sd=true

#Real #Friendship rooted in #God the #Bible #Commands and #Christian #NonChristian treat #Fair from #Money to everything else and not #loyal to #women and #family only.

Slide 16 in #MysteriousPPT – What is the Conclusion?

 1. Firstly, nothing wrong in parabolically or in story-telling reveal a situation where serious transgression have occurred especially in regard to “money” because Christ did the same (e.g. Luke 7:40 – 43). So, who wants to be “Christlike”? You have to do this:

40And Jesus answered and said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.” So he said, Teacher, say it.” 41“There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?” 43Simon answered and said, “I suppose the one whom he forgave more.” And He said to him, “You have rightly judged.” 44Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head. 45You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. 46You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. 47Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.” (Luke 7:40 – 47, NKJV)

2. Why? Because we don’t know even how bad our sins are until we face people sinning against us. Also, we understand how “Great” Christ’s forgiveness for our sins is and then we emulate it to forgive whoever repents from their sins toward us likewise.

3. “Giving clean money” earned via proper ways is like “giving your life” since it took that to earn it and that’s why Christ taught that “Charity Doctrine cleans all” for sanctification.

But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.” (Luke 11:41, KJV)

4. God only described a “friend’s love” to be these:

A friend loves at all times, … Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. … Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.” (Proverbs 17:17, 27:6, 15:13, NKJV)

End.

#Christlike is to #Forgive especially #money #sins to other types easily which is #GodsWill especially toward those who do it #unintentionally #unknowing that their #irresponsible or #immature behaviour causes #damage. #Charity #Doctrine is #Sanctification which #cleans #All.

Slide 17 in #MysteriousPPT – Can you be saved without attending a physical building called Church?

The oldest known “building” called “Church” was this. Remember, the finest Chiliasm Church Fathers (e.g. St. Justin of Rome (Justin Martyr), St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Tertullian, St. Victorinus of Pettau and St. Methodius of Olympus all existed in a Christianity which did “not” have this “Church Building” meaning it’s a “choice”. Claiming that without attending the building you’re unsaved is false. The Christians are the Church and Christianity will continue to thrive with and without the building as some of the finest martyrs and preachers the Church has ever known were from that period as we have some writings which survived.

“The oldest known purpose-built Christian church in the world is in Aqaba, Jordan. Built between 293 and 303, the building pre-dates the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, Jerusalem, Israel, and the Church of the Nativity, Bethlehem, West Bank, both of which were constructed in the late 320s. [ First purpose-built church | Guinness World Records]

Source: www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/first-purpose-built-church

St. Clement of Rome (the actual direct disciple of Apostle St. Peter) and not some “others” wrote clearly that “you can be saved without attending any Church especially if it’s some doctrinal difference based on which the majority discriminates you” where whoever is right (the “majority” vs “you”) will be “honoured greater by the Lord for this” (we will know after we die):

“Who then among you is noble-minded? Who compassionate? Who full of love? Let him declare, If on my account sedition and disagreement and schisms have arisen, I will depart, I will go away wherever ye desire, and I will do whatever the majority commands; only let the flock of Christ live on terms of peace with the presbyters set over it. He that acts thus shall procure to himself great glory in the Lord; and every place will welcome him. For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof. These things they who live a godly life that is never to be repented of, both have done and always will do.”(St. Clement of Rome (died c. 99/100AD).1 Clement, Chapter 54.  www.newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm)

“They will put you out of the synagogues [Churches]; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service.” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 16:2, NKJV)

#Can be #saved without #attending #Church says #Clement of #Rome agreeing with #Christ who Said they will put you out of #Synagogue meaning #Church at that time.

Slide 18 in #MysteriousPPT – A Simple Empirical Proof against Prosperity Gospel with Matthew 5:45  and St. Irenaeus of Lyons

1) For New Testament timeline, Lord Jesus never taught “prosperity” promises of “Old Testament” verses to apply in a special way to believers (not one such verse is quoted by Christ – if you say otherwise, please show where?) but rather taught in this dispensation of grace, God gives to both good and evil but will judge based on what’s given (more vs less merits beating likewise if wrong):

for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. …  47And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. (Matthew 5:45, Luke 12:47 – 48, NKJV)

2) Example: More is given in “prosperity”, more “Charity Doctrine” is required (‘hoarding treasure in New Testament’s last days’ is sin and other verses of James highlight other rich’s sins independent of this; where’s the threshold? Only God knows but do what you can):

Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days.” (James 5:3, NKJV)

3) St. Irenaeus of Lyons clearly quotes the context of Matthew 5:45 generally as “sinners” will be “richer” than “righteous” in New Testament time and be “condemned” for not using it rightly and doing “luxury etc.” instead:

the day of retribution has not yet come; but He still makes His sun to rise upon the good and upon the evil, and sends rain upon the just and unjustMatthew 5:45 And the righteous suffer persecution, are afflicted, and are slain, while sinners are possessed of abundance, and drink with the sound of the harp and psaltery, but do not regard the works of the Lord. Isaiah 5:12 … 4. The God, therefore, who does benevolently cause His sun to rise upon all, Matthew 5:45 and sends rain upon the just and unjust, shall judge those who, enjoying His equally distributed kindness, have led lives not corresponding to the dignity of His bounty; but who have spent their days in wantonness and luxury, in opposition to His benevolence, and have, moreover, even blasphemed Him who has conferred so great benefits upon them.” (St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies, Book 2, Chapter 22, Point 2 and Book 3, Chapter 25, Point 4)

Sources: www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103222.htm and www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103325.htm

4) Simple Empirical evidence which you can observe daily.

i) Take the No.1’s of Prosperity Gospel and imagine them living in a non-Christian country. If they did not have “Church income or Church job”, can they even land a “secular job”, how much so “prosperity” income?

ii) If ‘some’ or you can, look around you in your work industry: aren’t unbelievers, those of different religion also equally as rich as you or even richer? Even some are drunkards, womanizers etc., right? So, your ‘holiness’ gave you ‘less prosperity’ than even your unbelieving womanizing boss (example)?

iii) Healing and all that type are experienced even by non-Pentecostals (e.g. reformed, catholics etc.) meaning it’s not unique to any Christian denomination as God has Mercy on some even if He knows we are wrong. But not all will be saved like this. God Decides.

31But seek [f]the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added to you. …  33Sell what you have and give alms [Charity]; provide yourselves money bags which do not grow old, a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches nor moth destroys. 34For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” (Luke 12:31, 33 – 34, NKJV)

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: … covetousness, which is idolatry.” (Colossians 3:5, NKJV)

#Prosperity #Gospel creates #Idolatry for #Covetousness which breaks 1st and 2nd of 10 Commandments since you cannot ask #God for #Riches for your #Holiness #Praying daily unless you #love #Money and #prosperity while #True #Christians seek #Treasure in #heaven by converting earthly wealth into #Heavenly treasure as you cannot have both because one is exchanged for the other as Christ Taught too.

Slide 19 in #MysteriousPPT – Is your mother good or better than you and I? Let’s talk Bible verses with basic needs context

Link for #MysteriousPPT:

docs.google.com/presentation/d/1req6TrSrDB_I3MD2m8n4N6Am3HdaqXnT/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117647441539375745387&rtpof=true&sd=true

A Quote from the world reads:

 ‘A bad system will beat a good person every time’ – W. Edwards Deming

Yes no one is good in the absolute sense including your “mother”, your “pastor” or even “you” or “I”. So in that, all are equal. This post is about “merit”, “justice”, “fairness” and “relative goodness”.

Example: your “mother” will cook for you even if you’re worst sinner that uses others financially or even fail your exams or even if you don’t go to work etc. But how many times has she cooked for say a poor orphanage nearby or for poor students who do well in their exams? or equivalently, if she is working, give money to “Charity” which is equal to fulfilling these where if the bosses of Charity don’t do it, they go to hell for misuse, right? Fair, indeed.

Does Christ live in such “mothers” or even “fathers” (it applies to both genders) or even “sons or daughters” or everyone else (including “you and I”) who must have enough intelligence to know these basic facts, right? Let each man prove himself to God in private first in all this before claiming any “religion or moral stance”. Let God show on that Day who is doing it and must be with “your own money” (not donation money only) as Christ emphasized repeatedly this aspect too in Luke 11:41 and Luke 12:30 – 35.

31But seek [f]the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added to you. …  33Sell what you have and give alms [Charity]; provide yourselves money bags which do not grow old, a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches nor moth destroys. 34For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” (Luke 12:31, 33 – 34, NKJV)

But rather give alms [Charity] of such things as you have; then indeed all things are clean to you.” (Luke 11:41, NKJV)

#None #Good in #Absolute #sense so #all are #equal in this. #Bible teaches #Relative #Goodness which #man can attain to by doing #Gods #Commands by their own #freewill #choice .

Slide 20 in #MysteriousPPT – Honour your parents “in the Lord” and not in “idol worship” ways lest family becomes “your god”

Link for #MysteriousPPT:

docs.google.com/presentation/d/1req6TrSrDB_I3MD2m8n4N6Am3HdaqXnT/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117647441539375745387&rtpof=true&sd=true

Firstly, all verses quoted here are from NKJV. Are our parents good? Are you as a parent good? The Bible only calls those parents who provide house and inheritance (money) to their children’s children level as good (“A good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children” Proverbs 13:22 – so, if their marriage was God’s Will, wouldn’t they provide to this level? New testament (NT) reveals marriage as a “freewill” choice “he who gives her in marriage does well, but he who does not give her in marriage does better” in 1 Corinthians 7:38 [implied say in Matthew 19:12 with Isaiah 56:5 promise of “Eternal place/name” in heaven reward so not earthly in “Even to them [Eunuchs/Unmarried] I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off.” and ‘God’s Will for marriage is only for specific Old Testament cases to bring about lineage of Messiah or certain prophets etc.’). Nowhere in NT, Old Testament “be fruitful and multiply” type of verses are quoted. Can you see it? So, marriage is good if only it fulfills God’s Will revealed in these “New Testament (NT)” verses quoted here.

Jews use the parents’ inheritance money to take care of them starting with “rich Abraham” who gave Isaac his wealth and Isaac takes care of Abraham in old age with “that money” etc. Funny thing is “some” modern parents don’t provide for old age or breed like rabbits to save themselves and then blame children for not taking care which doesn’t seem to fit the Biblical hypothesis fully. Blessed are children who have given “free will” money like Christ taught Corban (Mark 7:9 – 13) when they need not give in the first place (2 Corinthians 12:14 reads, “For the children ought not to lay up [money] for the parents, but the parents for the children”). Example: I know a man who sold a house and gave all that money which came as profit into his bank account to his parents (when he need not) beyond what even the parents helped for repayment part while he didn’t get back his repayment amount (which is almost equal) to “honour Christ’s Corban” verse earlier. That man is ridiculed by parents since he also gave big amounts to friends and also his relationship fall with some women (this part is sin) but he has repented thence but notice that the parents shouldn’t be greedy for all that money since Bible talks also about giving to others and “not family only” as Christ Taught to give money even to “enemies” (like the love scam part becomes that unknowingly at first) in “Love your enemies, … 30Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back … 32“But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? … 34And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? … 35But love your enemies, do good, and lend, [h]hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great [in heaven], ” (Luke 6:27, 30, 32, 34, 35) .

obey your parents in the Lord” (Ephesians 6:1). Meaning obeying ‘whatever’ they said is not honoring God but only what is right. Example: If your mother is Pentecostal but you are not or if you believe in sharing your house with others as Christ and the first Church of Acts 2:44 – 45 or Acts 4:32 did with families even, stand strong in what you believe even if they don’t want to live with you because of such doctrinal differences. Yes, Lord Jesus Christ came to bring division in family if it’s for “doctrinal differences” even, “34“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35For I have come to ‘set[j] a man against his father,” (Matthew 10:34 – 35). Whoever is right, let God “judge or reward”, fair indeed, Shalom.

#Honour #Parents #Money #Context #Bible to #everything else but only in the #Lord .

Slide 21 in #MysteriousPPT – Earthly “discovery” non-money success of Jews and Christians example

 Link for #MysteriousPPT:

docs.google.com/presentation/d/1req6TrSrDB_I3MD2m8n4N6Am3HdaqXnT/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117647441539375745387&rtpof=true&sd=true

Jews do this well generally but Christians better.

That’s why even if their population is small, say they are so successful not just monetarily and it’s not by being “majority” race and manipulating the economic system always (like some races are fond of doing, just look around you), where for example “Jews make up 0.2% of the worlds’ population, yet they have won over 20% of the Nobel prizes“ [Source: library.villanova.edu/Find/Record/2475375?sid=144216576 ].

Money success can be manipulated by human freewill (e.g. I can hire and make a teacher of my own race or gender as head of Math in private or government but discriminate actual Math Olympians from getting those position or give more salary or play business monopoly tricks to make my race to survive or become more prosperous etc.) but only God can give knowledge type of achievements (like Nobel Prize has about 65.4% Christians but strangely no Pentecostals have won any technical ones and only 2 won peace prize in 2018 and 2019, source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_Nobel_laureates ).

Daniel 12:3, “And those who have insight will shine like the glow of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever” (NASB). biblehub.com/daniel/12-3.htm

St. Irenaeus of Lyons writes, “preaching by anticipation the inheritance of the holy Jerusalem, and proclaiming beforehand that the man who loves God shall arrive at such excellency as even to see God, and hear His word, and from the hearing of His discourse be glorified to such an extent, that others cannot behold the glory of his countenance, as was said by Daniel: Those who do understand, shall shine as the brightness of the firmament, and many of the righteous as the stars for ever and ever. Daniel 12:3 Thus, then, I have shown it to be, if any one read the Scriptures.” (Against Heresies, Book 4, Chapter 26, Point 1),  www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103426.htm

#Money #Success influenced by #Human #FreeWill but #GodsWill solely determines #Knowledge type #success especially #Bible #Insights even #Prophecy if right shines with #Higher #heavens #Glory in #Final #Resurrection than even #converting #many with #lower #stars level if lesser accuracy as #Daniel #Prophesies so #Plagiarism or #Boycott etc. does not work since #God knows to whom He Reveals such like some #ChurchFathers for me #Chiliasm .

Slide 22 in #MysteriousPPT – Pharisees did not fornicate but went to Hell while repented Prostitutes  exceeded their righteousness and went to heaven

Link for #MysteriousPPT:

docs.google.com/presentation/d/1req6TrSrDB_I3MD2m8n4N6Am3HdaqXnT/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117647441539375745387&rtpof=true&sd=true

1) Bible verses reveal one of the key thing is that Pharisees were outwardly holy (e.g. never fornicated) but were full of uncleanness inside due to not having charity doctrine where doing tithes did not clean it either since that’s an economic command for priest’s survival and not a humanity/love of God with justice command (Christ Said; all bible verses here from NKJV):

For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. … Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said to Him, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you. … 39Then the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees make the outside of the cup and dish clean, but your inward part is full of [k]greed and wickedness40Foolish ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also? 41But rather give alms [charity] of [l]such things as you have; then indeed all things are clean to you. 42“But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.” (Matthew 5:20, 21:31, Luke 11:39 – 42)

2) Example: Parents who give a house to their children have fulfilled a great Biblical duty (e.g. “Houses and riches are an inheritance from fathers,” [Proverbs 19:14] but if it is only for enough for 2 children, maybe should have had only 2 children. How to know earlier? Praying daily and holy and virgin and all that but seem to not know any of these nor became millionaire? right? So don’t spoil your own holiness by failing in finance context and don’t think being “richer” is “safer” since “not doing the good we can” which is more when one is richer is sin, so not sanctified in these areas:

Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. … Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days.” (James 4:17, 5:3)

God alone knows the threshold so just do what you can showing effort.

3) Entering Heaven meaning with Chiliasm Church Fathers is to do any of Christ’s New Testament (NT) Commands for “fruit” and NT Traditions to increase reward too. God knows how to measure and make those righteous to fulfill it by relative measure. Not enough space here but you can read i) St. Justin of Rome [Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter 105] ii) St. Irenaeus of Lyons [Against Heresies, Book 4, Chapter 13] and iii) Tertullian [Apologetic. On Idolatry. Chapter II] all quoting Matthew 5:20 in this context.

#Enter #Heaven #Produce #Fruit of #Gods #Commands to Exceed #Holy #Pharisees even in #Finance #Context who failed to even #Repented #Prostitutes .

Slide 23 in #MysteriousPPT –What if some details were misunderstood? Children and Parenting Example regarding how Charity Doctrine can help settle all Finance/Inheritance dispute in Life

Link for #MysteriousPPT:

docs.google.com/presentation/d/1req6TrSrDB_I3MD2m8n4N6Am3HdaqXnT/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117647441539375745387&rtpof=true&sd=true


Don’t do charity doctrine with a family house if all not consenting but do it in a house which you paid for or in a house where your parents may use you as an investment option to gain financial profit, allow it.

If you get an inheritance (say house) and it’s a fair transaction uttered by your parent in exchange for financial profit, nothing unfair in it.  Now, if Bank evaluation and profit projection for that “sale” was beyond the “the value you got”, it proves who wants “more money” and also “if that plan failed & house sold for lower value”, it’s not the fault of the person who agreed to “lesser profit”.

Also, best children “get scholarships for their university studies” with “good results” and “don’t burden their parents financially” while children who accept full financing by their parents for their studies should pay back in finance in other ways, right?

If say, a son is not contributing at all or is unstable mentally or depressed, perhaps should belong to mental asylum (Why God didn’t heal them as opposed to other sons who may have fallen, be punished and came back normal?) or if his brothers want to take care later, it’s a choice.

If a house or inheritance is say willed or given to Charity, if any children or parent has a ‘finance right’ to it, then God Will give them the fair “treasure in heaven”. My point is this: If you love your family (living or deceased), why not do Charity Doctrine with the “inheritance (house or money) that you got even via say a will at end of life if you’re not able to give now since need to survive” so that they get “treasure in heaven” instead of living recklessly with earthly luxury or enjoying holidays with it. Also, do not humiliate your mother/father by “cheating others financially” by “not doing the work for which it was paid for” even feeding or financing them with it.

Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:14, NKJV)

23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 19:23, NKJV)

We need to avoid lawlessness in finance context to enter heaven by obeying all these Bible verses (Matthew 7:20 – 23) as it is Written.

Christ repeatedly told to do “Charity Doctrine” with “own possessions” (not donation money only) e.g. Luke 12:30 – 35 (where “Prosperity Gospel” teaches the “all these things added to you part” in verse 31 but ignores the “sell what you have and give to charity part” in verse 33 for treasure in heaven).

31But seek [f]the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added to you. 33Sell what you have and give alms [Charity] ; provide yourselves …  a treasure in the heavens” (Luke 12:31, 33, NKJV)

Also, Apostle St. Paul clearly taught without “Charity Doctrine Command (not option)” done by the “Rich” (relative measure of what you have, Verses 17 – 19 below) there is “no eternal life” because there is “no love of God” part (see Slide 22 earlier) and compare that with the “fight the good fight of faith” (verse 12) part for “God’s Will in finance” too next and notice that not one word written for “tithe” in any of his letters to Gentiles (can you see it?):

12Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life17Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share19storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.” (1 Timothy 6:12, 17 – 19, NKJV)

#Love #Family #prove it in #Finance not by using #wealth #money for #holidays #luxury #self #enjoyment but rather use it for #Charity #Doctrine more so can #benefit even #parents #Children to get #treasure in #heaven since sometimes #people may not be #wise enough to do it on their own due to #false #prosperity #gospel #influence .

Slide 24 in #MysteriousPPT – Writing a Will for Possessions Given to Charity at end of Life type of Renunciation done by St. Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage who is a famous top martyr and Christian for Protestants, Catholic and Orthodox alike

1) Anyone with even a basic touch of early Christianity will know St. Cyprian of Carthage. A Catholic Encyclopaedia writes,

“ St. Cyprian was the first great Latin writer among the Christians, for Tertullian fell into heresy, and his style was harsh and unintelligible. Until the days of Jerome and Augustine, Cyprian’s writings had no rivals in the West. Their praise is sung by Prudentius, who joins with Pacian, Jerome, Augustine, and many others in attesting their extraordinary popularity.” (VIII. WRITINGS, Cyprian of Carthage, Saint Bishop and martyr; of the date of the saint’s birth and of his early life nothing is known, source: www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/cyprian-of-carthage-saint)

Note: I disagree with Tertullian being ‘lower’. If any Catholic scholar wants to debate, I will share ‘why’. Tertullian had his Montanism error but his writing has a ‘class of its own’ which St. Cyprian’s does not have either such as ‘magnificent insights into Chiliasm Prophecy details’.

3)  I agree and admire the Grace of God in St. Cyprian’s holy lifestyle which included especially the “renunciation for Christ” which even Tertullian and other Chiliasm or non-Chiliasm fathers did too:

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.” (Luke 14:33, NKJV)

So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.” (Luke 14:33, NASB)

4) A point of interest is that some Church Fathers such as St. Cyprian were rich (in modern terms say at least having a fully paid house + car with no debts), able to marry (not impotent and if possible have at least a woman willing to marry you), physically healthy and yet chose not to marry for fulfilling Christ’s Charity Doctrine lifestyle for greater heavenly rewards. A unique style for St. Cyprian was that he gave some money away when he was alive but kept some possessions to keep himself alive and kind of willed it to his successor for Charity Doctrine (so this practice is not my invention but is from “First Christianity” too), to quote:

Cyprian to the presbyters and deacons, his beloved brethren, greeting. …  I request that you will diligently take care of the widows, and of the sick, and of all the poor. Moreover, you may supply the expenses for strangers, if any should be indigent, from my own portion, which I have left with Rogatianus, our fellow presbyter; which portion, lest it should be all appropriated, I have supplemented by sending to the same by Naricus the acolyte another share, so that the sufferers may be more largely and promptly dealt with.” (St. Cyprian of Carthage, c.200 AD – c. 258 AD, Epistle 35, To the Clergy, Concerning the Care of the Poor and Strangers) Source: www.newadvent.org/fathers/050635.htm

Note: This is an entirely different “Christlike” faith from getting rich with Church Money while being a Bishop/Priest and “some with safety net of Church money support”. Your choice.

 #Cyprian #Bishop #First #Christianity #Charity #Doctrine via #Will given at #End of #Life since kept #some #Money #Possessions #Land to keep himself alive. If the will did not get fulfilled or others stole the money, St. Cyprian still gets full heavenly treasure since God doesn’t judge for deeds beyond his control.

Slides 25 to 27 in #MysteriousPPT –  Doctrinal Differences Example on Tithe Topic: Which is True or who is going to Hell if wrong? (Choo Thomas vs Martin Luther, John Calvin and John Wesley)

Link for #MysteriousPPT:

docs.google.com/presentation/d/1req6TrSrDB_I3MD2m8n4N6Am3HdaqXnT/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117647441539375745387&rtpof=true&sd=true

1) Pentecostal Christianity type usually claims that tithing is a must but Charity Doctrine is not  compulsory. Note that in slides 22 and 23 earlier, I have showed that Christ and other New Testament Bible verses show that only Charity Doctrine applies to Gentile believers and not tithes. Some Pentecostals, such  as the Assemblies of God (AOG) approved Prophetess Choo Thomas from Korea whose book was translated by the biggest Church’s pastor Dr. David Yonggi Cho claimed many times that she went to heaven and the Holy Spirit spoke to her/was with her [Page 4, 6, 98, 125] and she saw even people who did not tithe in Hell (she also ‘spoke in tongues the modern Pentecostal way’ which is approved by AOG Church [Pages 8, 11, 98, 104] & did some special dance [Pages 89, 105, 107, 108], she claimed the Lord asked her to do?):

“… Many Christians are poor and have many problems in their lives because their hearts are not right with Me and they don‟t tithe. Any Christian who doesn‟t tithe will not be blessed because they love money more than My Word. Those who love money more than My Word will never see My kingdom. You already know where they will be at the end. … Every word in this book is true. The words of Jesus have been transcribed exactly as He said them to me …” – Choo Thomas (Page 74, 88) Source:

https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/c21a6153/files/uploaded/heaven-is-so-real-ChooThomas.pdf

Questions to ponder: So, is every “tithe paying AOG Christian rich?” or if they’re not rich, doesn’t Choo Thomas’ quote above mean that something is spiritually wrong with them? So, only rich AOG Christians are saved is it? Also, Choo Thomas also claimed the Lord/Holy Spirit is the one who told her to write her book (Page 2, 109) and God made her rich because of tithing (Page 79). She said she saw a vision of a “pre-tribulation rapture” too which happens to her “young granddaughter” (Page 80, 81, 135).

2) All Protestant Founders did not teach nor practice tithing – so if Choo Thomas is right, are they in Hell? If she is wrong, could she (and Pentecostal types that support her) be doing unforgivable Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? Proof Quotes:

“… TITHING: But the other commandments of Moses, which are not [implanted in all men] by nature, the Gentiles do not hold. Nor do these pertain to the Gentiles, such as the TITHE  … SABBATH: Again one can prove it from the third commandment that Moses does not pertain to Gentiles and Christians. For Paul [Col. 2:16] and the New Testament [Matt. 12:1-12; John 5:16; 7:22-23; 9:14-16] abolish the Sabbath, to show us that the Sabbath was given to the Jews alone, for whom it is a stern commandment. …” – Martin Luther, First Protestant, Founder of Lutheran Churches  (LUTHER, MARTIN; August 27, 1525, HOW CHRISTIANS SHOULD REGARD MOSES) Example Sources (same content no matter which is quoted): https://www.tithing-russkelly.com/luther-martin-rejected-tithing-1525/ or
https://www.tithing-russkelly.com/wp-content/themes/tithing-russkelly-html/REK-Tithing3.pdf [Page 147] or https://lutherancatechism.com/doc-lib/voelz_j_luthers_use_of_scripture_in_the_small_catechism.pdf

Note: This is an important comparison since Choo Thomas said that “Lord Jesus” told her that those who do “not tithe” go to Hell and Martin Luther did “not tithe” personally and taught “no need to tithe”. So, is he in Hell? If not, who did Choo Thomas meet or if her vision is not true, then what about her speaking in tongues which is approved by even No. 1 AOG Dr. David Yonggi Cho? Scary, right? So, I am neutral but I can show Lord Jesus Christ these “evidences” and tell him “why” I did not “oath myself to AOG beliefs and quit that Church in year 2010” where even if AOG turns out to be the ‘real truth’ (for argument’s sake), God can clearly understand my hesitance and being safe since he surely saved Martin Luther likewise from a protestant point of view, right? Also, Luther believed in post-tribulation rapture instead of pre-tribulation rapture.

#Charity #Doctrine is #Focus of #Tithe by #First #Protestant #Reformers #Martin #Luther  #Founder of #Lutheran #Churches but different in #AOG or #modern #doctrine of #Prosperity #Gospel .

Slide 26 in #MysteriousPPT –  Doctrinal Differences Example on Tithe Topic: Which is True or who is going to Hell if wrong? (Choo Thomas vs John Calvin)

“… However, after giving the reason God complained about being defrauded of the tithes in Malachi 3,

“But we know that other sacrifices are now prescribed to us; and after prayer and praises, he bids us to relieve the poor and needy. God then, no doubt, is deprived by us of his right, when we are unkind to the poor, and refuse them aid in their necessity.”[1].– John Calvin, Founder of Reformed Churches, Founder of TULIP Calvinism (Calvin, Commentaries on the Twelve Minor Prophets, 5:586.)

So, according to Calvin, God is robbed by Christians not when they fail to tithe, but when they fail to give aid to the poor and needy. …” Source (Prof. David A. Croteau): https://slaveoftheword.blogspot.com/2006/02/calvin-and-tithes-continued_19.html

and

“… reproved by God in the scribes, who, while they were very diligent and careful in paying tithes, cared little about the principal points of the Law. … And yet the question is not fully answered; for tithes, which Christ places inferior to judgment and mercy, were a part of divine worship, and some part of them was usually bestowed on the poor, so that tithes contained a double sacrifice. I:reply: Tithes are not simply compared to alms, and faith, and judgment, but the pretended holiness of the scribes is compared with the sincere and pure feeling of charity …” – John Calvin, Founder of Reformed Churches, Founder of TULIP Calvinism (Commentary on Matthew 23)

Source: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/calvin/matthew/23.htm

Note: This is an important comparison since Choo Thomas said that “Lord Jesus” told her that those who do “not tithe” go to Hell and John Calvin did “not tithe” personally and taught “no need to tithe” since he calls it “not part of principal part of the Law” but says must do “Charity Doctrine” (with or without tithe). So, is he in Hell? If not, who did Choo Thomas meet or if her vision is not true, then what about her speaking in tongues which is approved by even No. 1 AOG Dr. David Yonggi Cho? Scary, right? So, I am neutral but I can show Lord Jesus Christ these “evidences” and tell him “why” I did not “oath myself to AOG beliefs and quit that Church in year 2010” where even if AOG turns out to be the ‘real truth’ (for argument’s sake), God can clearly understand my hesitance and being safe since he surely saved John Calvin likewise from a protestant point of view, right? Also, Calvin believed in post-tribulation rapture instead of pre-tribulation rapture.

#Charity #Doctrine is #Focus of #Tithe by #First #Protestant #Reformers #John #Calvin #Founder of #Reformed who influenced #Baptist #Presbyterian too but different in #AOG or #modern #doctrine of #Prosperity #Gospel .

Slide 27 in #MysteriousPPT –  Doctrinal Differences Example on Tithe Topic: Which is True or who is going to Hell if wrong? (Choo Thomas vs John Wesley)

John Wesley basically taught to give “more or lessthan 10% also can (notice the “less” part) according to your financial condition but important thing here also is the “tithe” (tenth) money is used for “Charity Doctrine” toward “priest, normal Christian and non-Christian too” (while most tithing churches use it for pastor’s salary only – a world of a difference):

Do not stint yourself, like a Jew rather than a Christian, to this or that proportion. “Render unto God,” not a tenth, not a third, not half, but all that is God’s, be it more or less; by employing all on yourself, your household, the household of faith, and all mankind, in such a manner, that you may give a good account of your stewardship when ye can be no longer stewards; … I do not say, “Be a good Jew, giving a tenth of all you possess.” I do not say, “Be a good Pharisee, giving a fifth of all your substance.” I dare not advise you to give half of what you have; no, nor three quarters; but all! … 1. Provide things needful for yourself; food to eat, raiment to put on; whatever nature moderately requires, for preserving you both in health and strength. 2. Provide these for your wife, your children, your servants, or any others who pertain to your household. If, when this is done, there be an overplus left, then do good to “them that are of the household of faith.” If there be an overplus still, “as you have opportunity, do good unto all men.” – John Wesley, Main Founder of Methodist Churches (The Use of Money, Part III, Point 6, Page 24 and Part II, Point 8, Page 48)

Source: https://wesleygospel.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/john-wesley-on-money-2.6.pdf

Note: This is an important comparison since Choo Thomas said that “Lord Jesus” told her that those who do “not tithe” go to Hell and John Wesley did “not tithe” personally and taught “no need to tithe” since he calls it “can be less than the tenth/10%/tithe” but says must do “Charity Doctrine” with that money not just toward “pastors” but that Church Money is used also for “other Christian’s need and even non-Christians” (with more or less than 10% income according to financial ability). So, is he in Hell? If not, who did Choo Thomas meet or if her vision is not true, then what about her speaking in tongues which is approved by even No. 1 AOG Dr. David Yonggi Cho? Scary, right? So, I am neutral but I can show Lord Jesus Christ these “evidences” and tell him “why” I did not “oath myself to AOG beliefs and quit that Church in year 2010” where even if AOG turns out to be the ‘real truth’ (for argument’s sake), God can clearly understand my hesitance and being safe since he surely saved John Wesley likewise from a protestant point of view, right? Also, Wesley believed in post-tribulation rapture instead of pre-tribulation rapture.

#Charity #Doctrine is #Focus of #Tithe by #First #Protestant #Reformers #John #Wesley #Founder of #Methodist #Churches but different in #AOG or #modern #doctrine of #Prosperity #Gospel .

Slide 28 in #MysteriousPPT –  Abide in Christ and bear thirtyfold, sixtyfold or hundredfold fruits (reward levels of Salvation) vs saved by fire for “some”?

Link for #MysteriousPPT:

docs.google.com/presentation/d/1req6TrSrDB_I3MD2m8n4N6Am3HdaqXnT/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117647441539375745387&rtpof=true&sd=true

1) Lord Jesus Christ Taught this:

5“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:5 – 6, NKJV)

2) Example: Roman Catholics and Orthodox can easily claim they abide in Christ and that’s why they are able to continuously exist for 2000 years (even if the earliest Church Fathers writings especially Chiliasm ones does not contain some of the extrabiblical practices which they do). If the evangelism and great numbers of the Catholics and Orthodox who pray to Virgin Mary (about 60% of Christianity today and much more in past history*) counts lesser in value and more risky than protestant conversions (about 40% of Christianity to date), then similarly within Protestantism, those more accurate doctrinally may be lesser in numbers likewise.

*Source: Todd M. Johnson and Gina A. Zurlo, eds. World Christian Database (Leiden/Boston: Brill), www.worldchristiandatabase.org or www.gordonconwell.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2024/01/Status-of-Global-Christianity-2024.pdf

3) Bearing “fruit” part above refers to three levels of “Elect Salvation” according to “accuracy”:

But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.” (Mark 4:20, NKJV)

Note: Verses such as Matthew 19:29 correlates with it mentioning only the “hundredfold” reward level which is stated differently from “Eternal Life” by Christ Himself [“And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life” (Matthew 19:29, NKJV)]. Salvation with reward seems to be this verse too,

If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward” (1 Corinthians 3:14, NKJV).”

4)  The phrase “throw them into the fire, and they are burned” earlier could imply “Non Elect Salvation” for “some” (not all) if this interpretation next is true (notice the word “burned” in both John 15:6 and 1 Corinthians 3:15):

 “If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” (1 Corinthians 3:15, NKJV)

Note: The lowest reward thirtyfold level seems to match 1 Corinthians 3:14’s “reward” case of being honoured rather than the “saved by fire” with “no reward” possibility of 1 Corinthians 3:15. If viewed like this, then 1 Corinthians 3:15’s “saved by fire” case could be Non Elect Salvation.

#Elect vs #Non Elect #Salvation #Possibility not #Doctrine .

Don’t #believe in man’s definition of “#good” but rather in God’s #definition of “#Good”.

#Ask, “Where are your #Bible verses?”

Link for #MysteriousPPT:

docs.google.com/presentation/d/1req6TrSrDB_I3MD2m8n4N6Am3HdaqXnT/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117647441539375745387&rtpof=true&sd=true

TQ

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