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CHILIASM PROPHECY POSSIBILITY EVIDENCE (NOT doctrine as no one can be sure 100% as it has not come to pass) but PROBABILITY is high (just look at the names quoted)

Slide 23 in Founders Powerpoint – CHILIASM PROPHECY POSSIBILITY EVIDENCE (NOT doctrine as no one can be sure 100% as it has not come to pass) but PROBABILITY is high (just look at the names quoted).

MAJORITY does NOT indicate truth nor GOD’s approval because if so then GOD allowed a “Praying to Virgin Mary Christianity to be dominant” and even “Jews of the past who preserved Scripture but do NOT even know that GOD has a SON” meaning TRUTH & ACCURACY depends on WHO we quote & I quote these EARLIEST CHILIASM CHURCH FATHERS (as no one earlier than them for these topics exist and if someone says otherwise, ask them to prove it like I did, fair, right?).

GOD will understand ERROR but LOWER REWARD if SAVED even in PROPHECY CONTEXT (Jeremiah 23:36) but if CLAIMING GOD TOLD ME DIRECTLY TYPE PROPHETS “ETERNAL (“Olam”) REPROACH / UNFORGOTTEN SHAME” awaits if WRONG (Jeremiah 23:37 – 40). Worst is, imagine OUR presentation is FREE (thanks to Roman Catholic sources too) while their PROPHECY books SOLD for money & taking SALARY etc.

CHILIASM Prophecy Timeline Order:

1) Second Coming of Christ and Post-Tribulation Rapture at start of the 1000 years Millennial Reign

[Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Fathers St. Justin of Rome (Slide 24), St. Irenaeus of Lyons (Slide 25), Tertullian (Slide 26) & St. Methodius of Olympus (Slide 27)]

2) First Resurrection, Marriage of the Lamb during the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ

[Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Fathers St. Justin of Rome (Slide 28), St. Papias (Slide 29), St. Irenaeus of Lyons (Slide 30, 31), Tertullian (Slide 31), St. Methodius of Olympus (Slide 32) & St. Ambrose of Milan (Slide 33)]

3) Second Resurrection and change from human to angelic at the end of this 1000 years Millennial Reign for His Bride/Elect Salvation

[Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Fathers St. Justin of Rome (Slide 34), St. Irenaeus of Lyons (Slide 35, 36, 37), St. Victorinus (Slide 37), Tertullian (Slide 38) & St. Methodius of Olympus (Slide 39)]

TQ

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Christian Founders Ministry Powerpoint” which will be updated with info from time to time (beginning 9 May 2024 onward):

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1qnT4GtEV_1lUpGLZsMbCf1jRKqcRp3lL/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117647441539375745387&rtpof=true&sd=true

290 Slides Free Powerpoint Link discussing variety of topics (Done as of April 2024):

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1C3FZh5AFL2aNDy9s7TA0TphwmF7dBbpP/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=103161103828141436650&rtpof=true&sd=true

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/pfbid0AoSUWHd4cy12XhJoBUyTJsNPhZLzpTCzkNX2AeHDNVQUh2sZQvHS5FSH29vgtsvxl

TQ


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Slide 24 in Founders Powerpoint – 1) Second Coming of Christ and Post-Tribulation Rapture at start of the 1000 years Millennial Reign [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father St. Justin of Rome] Context for 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as no Prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20) where he only seems to see “2 Comings of Christ” (not 3 including a secret pre-trib rapture) & that the ANTICHRIST OPENLY kills CHRISTIANS till the PUBLIC SECOND COMING of CHRIST meaning NO Christian mentioned to be secretly saved earlier? Notice some quotes in PPT I have not put in books earlier. Also notice word “PHILANTHROPHY” (Charity Doctrine) here in quote + “Righteousness” (Holiness) as True Christians seek that instead of Antichrist’s WAR, MURDER CRIES etc. as he compares below – can you “see” it?;

“… O unreasoning men! understanding not what has been proved by all these passages, that two advents of Christ have been announced: the one, in which He is set forth as suffering, inglorious, dishonoured, and crucified; but the other, in which He shall come from heaven with glory, when the man of apostasy, who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians, who, having learned the true worship of God from the law, and the word which went forth from Jerusalem by means of the apostles of Jesus, have fled for safety to the God of Jacob and God of Israel; and we who were filled with war, and mutual slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the whole earth changed our warlike weapons — our swords into ploughshares, and our spears into implements of tillage— and we cultivate piety, righteousness, philanthropy, faith, and hope, which we have from the Father Himself through Him who was crucified; … For the prophets have proclaimed two advents of His: the one, that which is already past, when He came as a dishonoured and suffering Man; but the second, when, according to prophecy, He shall come from heaven with glory, accompanied by His angelic host, when also He shall raise the bodies of all men who have lived, and shall clothe those of the worthy with immortality, and shall send those of the wicked, endued with eternal sensibility, into everlasting fire with the wicked devils. And that these things also have been foretold as yet to be, we will prove. ” –  Blessed St. Justin of Rome or St. Justin Martyr, PRIEST, CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER, MARTYR for CHRIST, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter 110, The First Apology, Chapter 52) Source:  https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01288.htm and https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm

“… I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion, and [believe] that such will take place, … but, … many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise. Moreover, I pointed out to you that some who are called Christians, but are godless, impious heretics, teach doctrines that are in every way blasphemousatheistical, and foolish. …” – St. Justin of Rome (Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter 80) Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01286.htm

Slide 25 in Founders Powerpoint – 1) Second Coming of Christ and Post-Tribulation Rapture at start of the 1000 years Millennial Reign [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father St. Irenaeus of Lyons] Context for 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as no Prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20) where he only seems to see the CHURCH PUT to FLIGHT during the LAST ANTICHRIST and “caught up” (“Rapture”) at the END of it with CHRIST’s SECOND COMING with NO mention of any “secret pre-trib for ‘some holier church’ to ‘escape these’?) Please see his combined quotes to see this as other Christians have pointed out too example link:

https://www.monergism.com/historic-hope-church-0

or [From Page 106 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]; The phrase “THIEF in the NIGHT” COMING of CHRIST seems PUBLIC in these BIBLE Verses even, right? So how is it seen as “Secret coming”?  Please remember that APOSTLES & PROPHETS can have ZERO PROPHECY ERROR

“… 1. In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord’s disciples what shall happen in the last times, and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise, among whom the empire which now rules [the earth] shall be partitioned. He teaches us what the ten horns shall be which were seen by Daniel, telling us that thus it had been said to him: And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet, but shall receive power as if kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and give their strength and power to the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because He is the Lord of lords and the King of kings. Revelation 17:12, etc. It is manifest, therefore, that of these [potentates], he who is to come shall slay three, and subject the remainder to his power, and that he shall be himself the eighth among them. And they shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. … so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, WHEN IN THE END THE CHURCH SHALL BE SUDDENLY CAUGHT UP FROM THIS, it is said, “There shall be TRIBULATION such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” For this is the LAST CONTEST OF THE RIGHTEOUS, in which, WHEN THEY OVERCOME THEY ARE CROWNED WITH INCORRUPTION. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology, CHILIASM Church Father, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp, who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter 26, Point 1 & Chapter XXIX (29), Point 1) Sources: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103526.htm  and https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103529.htm

Slide 26 in Founders Powerpoint – 1) Second Coming of Christ and Post-Tribulation Rapture at start of the 1000 years Millennial Reign [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father Tertullian] Context for 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as no Prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20)

“… Now the privilege of this favour awaits those who shall at the coming of the Lord be found in the flesh, and who shall, owing to the oppressions of the time of Antichrist, deserve by an instantaneous death,75567556 Compendio mortis. Compare our Anti-Marcion for the same thoughts and words, v. 12. [p. 455, supra.] which is accomplished by a sudden change, to become qualified to join the rising saints; as he writes to the Thessalonians: “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we too shall ourselves be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”75577557 1 Thess. iv. 15–17. …” – Blessed Tertullian, Father of Latin Christianity, Founder of Western Theological Scholarship, CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER (c. 155 AD – c. 240 AD, Anti-Marcion, On the Resurrection of the Flesh , Chapter XLI (41)—The Dissolution of Our Tabernacle Consistent with the Resurrection of Our Bodies) Source: https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.v.viii.xli.html

Blessed Tertullian only Teaches Two PUBLIC COMINGS of CHRIST (i.e. no secret pre-trib rapture coming of Christ but only a post-trib one).:

[From Page 104 onward of the #ChiliasmBook

 “… Chapter 21. For two comings of Christ having been revealed to us: a first, which has been fulfilled in the lowliness of a human lot; a second, which impends over the world, now near its close, in all the majesty of Deity unveiled; and, by misunderstanding the first, they have concluded that the second — which, as matter of more manifest prediction, they set their hopes on — is the only one. …” – Blessed Tertullian, Father of Latin Christianity, Founder of Western Theological Scholarship, CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER (c. 155 AD – c. 240 AD, Apology (Tertullian), Chapter 21-partial) Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0301.htm

Slide 27 in Founders Powerpoint – 1) Second Coming of Christ and Post-Tribulation Rapture at start of the 1000 years Millennial Reign [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father St. Methodius of Olympus] Context for 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as no Prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20) where he says that the WISE VIRGINS had both FAITH with CHARITY DOCTRINE (“Good Works”) + HOLINESS for Matthew 25:1 – 13 and that it refers to the PUBLIC SECOND COMING of CHRIST too

“… So long, then, as this people treasured up nourishment for the light, supplying oil by their works, the light of continence was not extinguished among them, but was ever shining and giving light in the “lot of their inheritance.” But when the oil failed, by their turning away from the faith to incontinence, the light was entirely extinguished, so that the virgins have again to kindle their lamps by light transmitted from one to another, bringing the light of incorruption to the world from above. Let us then supply now the oil of good works abundantly, and of prudence, being purged from all corruption which would weigh us down; lest, while the Bridegroom tarries, our lamps may also in like manner be extinguished. For the delay is the interval which precedes the appearing of Christ. Now the slumbering and sleeping of the virgins signifies the departure from life; and the midnight is the kingdom of Antichrist, during which the destroying angel passes over the houses.26712671 Exod. xi., xii. But the cry which was made when it was said,26722672 Matt. xxv. 6. [This parable greatly stimulated primitive celibacy.] “Behold the bridegroom cometh, go ye out to meet him,” is the voice which shall be heard from heaven, and the trumpet, when the saints, all their bodies being raised, shall be caught up, and shall go on the clouds to meet the Lord.2673 … For it is to be observed that the word of God says, that after the cry all the virgins arose, that is, that the dead shall be raised after the voice which comes from heaven, as also Paul intimates,26742674 1 Thess. iv. 16. that “the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;” that is the tabernacles,26752675 Bodies. for they died, being put off by their souls. “Then we which are alive shall be caught up together with them,” meaning our souls.26762676 1 Thess. iv. 17. Commentators have remarked on the peculiarity of the interpretation. We give simply the writer’s meaning.—Tr. For we truly who are alive are the souls which, with the bodies, having put them on again, shall go to meet Him in the clouds, bearing our lamps trimmed, not with anything alien and worldly, but like stars radiating the light of prudence and continence, full of ethereal splendour. …” – Blessed St. Methodius of Olympus, CHILIASM Church Father, Bishop of Olympus, Little is known of his life. He was apparently put to death in the Diocletianic persecution. Only a small part of his extensive writing survives. The ‘Symposium [Banquet], or On Chastity’, also known as the ‘Banquet of the Ten Virgins’, extols virginity. In a treatise on the Resurrection, he took issue with Origen and upheld the identity of the resurrection body with that worn in this life. His work on Free Will is a defence of human liberty against the fatalism of the Gnostics (died c. 311 AD, Banquet of the Ten Virgins, Chapter IV.—What the Oil in the Lamps Means) Source: https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf06.xi.iii.vii.iv.html

Slide 28 in Founders Powerpoint – 2) First Resurrection, Marriage of the Lamb during the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father St. Justin of Rome] Context for Revelation 20:4 – 6, Luke 20:34 – 36 as no Prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20) where he says that the NOT all those CHRISTIANS who are WRONG in PROPHECY aspect are HERETICS (but some are) while the quote in Slide 24 earlier is broken down further with DETAIL of SECOND RESURRECTION at END of 1000 years which has the term GENERAL RESURRECTION (that could contain NON ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY if anyone saved during second resurrection since all Christians are saved during FIRST RESURRECTION itself in his own words here compare with next slides).

[From Page 175/616 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]


“… I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise. Moreover, I pointed out to you that some who are called Christians, but are godless, impious heretics, teach doctrines that are in every way blasphemous, atheistical, and foolish. …For I choose to follow not men or men’s doctrines, but God and the doctrines [delivered] by Him. For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this [truth], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians, …  worshipping God with the lips, as God Himself declared, but the heart was far from Him.  But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare… And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, THAT THOSE WHO BELIEVED IN OUR CHRIST would dwell a THOUSAND YEARS in Jerusalem [Revelation 20:4 – 10]; and that thereafter the GENERAL, and in short, the ETERNAL RESURRECTION and JUDGMENT of ALL MEN would LIKEWISE TAKE PLACE [Revelation 20:11 – 15, Matthew 25:31 – 46]. Just as our Lord also said, ‘They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection. [Luke 20:35 – 36]...” –  Blessed St. Justin of Rome or St. Justin Martyr, PRIEST, CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER, MARTYR for CHRIST, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho CHAPTER  LXXX to LXXXI (80 – 81)) Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01286.htm

Slide 29 in Founders Powerpoint – 2) First Resurrection, Marriage of the Lamb during the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father St. Papias of Hierapolis] Context for Revelation 20:4 – 6, Luke 20:34 – 36 as no Prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20) where he says that ALL CHRISTIANS (thirtyfold, sixtyfold or hundredfold reward level harvests of the gospel) are in FIRST RESURRECTION  as HIS BRIDE during MARRIAGE of the LAMB and in HEAVEN DWELLINGS where LOWEST HEAVEN is NEW JERUSALEM CITY connecting to that FINAL NEW EARTH (Revelation 21:9) so SOME NATIONS SAVED but NOT ENTER HEAVEN as per Revelation 21:24 – 27 (could be NON ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY if anyone saved during second resurrection since all Christians are saved during FIRST RESURRECTION itself compare with next slides).

[From Page 217 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]

“… As the presbyters say, then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour will be seen, according as they shall be worthy who see Him. But that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold; for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second class will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the city; and that on this account the Lord said, “In my Father’s house are many mansions: John 14:2 for all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling-place, even as His word says, that a share is given to all by the Father, according as each one is or shall be worthy. And this is the couch in which they shall recline who feast, being invited to the wedding. The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, say that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved, …”  – Blessed St. Papias, Bishop of Hierapolis, an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of the Blessed St. John the Apostle who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 60 AD – c. 163 AD, Fragment V) Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0125.htm

Slide 30 in Founders Powerpoint – 2) First Resurrection, Marriage of the Lamb during the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father St. Irenaeus of Lyons] Context for Revelation 20:4 – 6, Luke 20:34 – 36 as no Prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20) where he says that ALL CHRISTIANS are in FIRST RESURRECTION  so SOME NATIONS SAVED  if NON-PRIESTS but NOT ENTER HEAVEN as per Revelation 21:24 – 27 (could be NON ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY if anyone saved during second resurrection or GENERAL RESURRECTION  since all Christians are PRIESTS, BRIDE & KINGS). The NON Elect Salvation possibility for NON-Priests, NON-kings even those punished in HADES till LAST PENNY compare with SLIDES 22, 9, 10, 18 earlier to match “earth beneath” spirit world salvation after “punishment time for disobedience” quoted here. Combined quote below:

[From Page 291 & 160 onward of the #LastBook]

“… 3 …  Now, in the preceding book I have shown that ALL THE DISCIPLES OF THE LORD ARE LEVITES AND PRIESTS, they who used in the temple to profane the Sabbath, but are blameless. Matthew 12:5 Promises of such a nature, therefore, do indicate in the clearest manner the FEASTING of that creation in the KINGDOM OF THE RIGHTEOUS, which God promises that He will Himself serve. … 8. But as many as feared God, and were anxious about His law, these ran to Christ, and were all saved. [Elect Salvation] For He said to His disciples: Go to the sheep of the house of IsraelMatthew 10:6 which have perished. [Non Elect Salvation]  …   remaining a virgin could bring forth a son, and that what was thus born should be  God with us, and descend to those things which are of the earth beneath, seeking the sheep which had perished, which was indeed His own peculiar handiwork, and ascend to the height above, offering and commending to His Father that human nature (hominem) which had been found, making in His own person the first-fruits of the resurrection of man; that, as the Head rose from the dead, so also the remaining part of the body[namely, the body] of everyman who is found in life when the time is fulfilled of that condemnation which existed by reason of disobedience, may arise, blended together and strengthened through means of joints and bands Ephesians 4:16 by the increase of God, each of the members having its own proper and fit position in the body. For there are many mansions in the Father’s house, John 14:2 inasmuch as there are also many members in the body.  …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology, CHILIASM Church Father, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp, who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church, (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, (Book 5(V), Chapter 34), Points 3-partial)

Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103534.htm

Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103402.htm                                 

Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103319.htm

Compare with “till last penny” earlier slides below:

Slide 22 in Founders Powerpoint – Context for “TILL LAST PENNY” Judgment Bible Verses seems strong for HADES CONTEXT by CHILIASM Church Father Tertullian explains here for “fallen Christians only” (compare with discussion in Slides 9, 10, 18 earlier).

But since Tertullian views “Shepherd of Hermas as Scripture” [in Page 115 onward of the #ChiliasmBook] a key point of difference or contention can be seen [From Page 155 onward of the #ChiliasmBook] where the “Shepherd of Hermas” has “another Salvation outside the [Elect] Tower” can mean “NON-ELECT SALVATION as it refers to REJECTED STONES including even UNBAPTIZED etc.” (parabolically “rejected” from Elect/Bride Kingdom of Heaven Salvation via Marriage of Lamb, Revelation 21:9) on final new earth but not entering heaven? (Revelation 21: 24 – 27, not sure but possible). I present the evidence honestly so no condemnation since both views shown.

Compare below joined quotes; If either of these quotes are right, how many TRUE PROPHETS are there who are right on these parts too?

“… and lest this Judge deliver you over to the angel who is to execute the sentence, and he commit you to the prison of hell, out of which there will be no dismissal until the smallest even of your delinquencies be paid off in the period before the resurrection.1735] What can be a more fitting sense than this? What a truer interpretation? … In short, inasmuch as we understand “the prison” pointed out in the Gospel to be Hades,18421842 Matt. v. 25. and as we also interpret “the uttermost farthing”18431843 Ver. 26. to mean the very smallest offence which has to be recompensed there before the resurrection,1844 no one will hesitate to believe that the soul undergoes in Hades some compensatory discipline, without prejudice to the full process of the resurrection, when the recompense will be administered through the flesh besides. … It is the transformation these shall undergo which he explains to the Corinthians, when he writes: “We shall all indeed rise again (though we shall not all undergo the transformation) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump”—for none shall experience this change but those only who shall be found in the flesh. “And the dead,” he says, “shall be raised, and we shall be changed.” … in such a way that mortality may be swallowed up of life, that is, by putting on over us whilst we are transformed that vestiture which is from heaven. …” – Blessed Tertullian, Father of Latin Christianity, Founder of Western Theological Scholarship, CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER (c. 155 AD – c. 240 AD, A Treatise on the Soul, Chapter XXXV (35), Chapter LVIII (58), Anti-Marcion, On the Resurrection of the Flesh Chapter XLII (42))

Source 1: https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.iv.xi.xxxv.html
Source 2: https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.iv.xi.lviii.html
Source 3: https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.v.viii.xlii.html

[From Page 155 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]

“… Do you wish to know who are the others which fell near the waters, but could not be rolled into them? THESE ARE THEY WHO HAVE HEARD THE WORD, and WISH TO BE BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord; but when the chastity demanded by the truth comes into their recollection, they draw back, and AGAIN WALK AFTER THEIR OWN WICKED DESIRES.” She FINISHED her EXPOSITION of the TOWER. But I, shameless as I yet was, asked her, “IS REPENTANCE POSSIBLE FOR ALL THOSE STONES WHICH HAVE BEEN CAST AWAY and DID NOT FIT INTO THE BUILDING of the TOWER, AND WILL THEY YET HAVE A PLACE IN THIS TOWER?” “REPENTANCE,” said she, “IS YET POSSIBLE, BUT IN THIS TOWER THEY CANNOT FIND A SUITABLE PLACE. But in another and MUCH INFERIOR PLACE THEY WILL BE LAID, and that, too, ONLY WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN TORTURED AND COMPLETED THE DAYS OF THEIR SINS. And on this account will they be transferred, because they have PARTAKEN of the RIGHTEOUS WORD. And then only will they be removed from their punishments when the THOUGHT of REPENTING of the evil deeds which they have done has come into their hearts. But if it does not come into their hearts, they will not be saved, on account of the hardness of their heart.” …” – Shepherd of Hermas ( (Book I), Vision 3, Concerning the Building of the Triumphant Church, and the Various Classes of Reprobate Men, Chapter 7)

Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/02011.htm

Founders MINISTRY in Christianity St. Athanasius the Great approved the Didache for Usage – Part 2 of 2

1) Some type of NON-ELECT SALVATION for those WHO did FINANCIAL SINS of taking MONEY beyond NEED? [From Page 391 onward of the #MysteryoftheKingdomofHeavenBook] and the one who GIVES even to WRONG PERSON or SCAMMED is GUILTLESS (meaning his reward is secure and NO sin on his part for being cheated)

Here’s that “Didache” Warning of taking money “beyond needs” (applies not just to Church money but any money too):

“… Happy is he who gives according to the commandment, for he is guiltless. WOE to HIM WHO RECEIVES; for if one receives who has need, he is guiltless; but he who RECEIVES NOT having NEED shall PAY the PENALTY, why he received and for what. And coming into CONFINEMENT, he shall be EXAMINED concerning the THINGS which he HAS DONE, and he shall NOT ESCAPE from THERE until he PAYS back the LAST PENNY. And also concerning this, it has been said, Let YOUR ALMS sweat in your hands, until you know to whom you should give…” – The Didache, The Lord’s Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations. (1st Century, Chapter 1. The Two Ways and the First Commandment),

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html

Comment: Is this what CHRIST Meant in these Bible Verses? (we consider it as a POSSIBILITY in light of all this EVIDENCE as you can see, difficult to decide, right?)

[From Page 1800 or 2387 onward of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook];

Compare: The “Prison” till the “Last Penny” seem to refer to the “Gehenna” (Final Hell or Lake of Fire Context) because Christ was talking about that Topic in Verses below:

“… 22 But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in DANGER of HELL [Gehenna] fire. 23Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into PRISON. 26Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till YOU HAVE PAID THE LAST PENNY. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:22 – 26, NKJV)

In yet another time CHRIST uses that same phrase “Till the Last Penny” to refer to the “unforgiveness attitude some have” which could mean ‘Lake of Fire or Hades Context’ too:

“… 32Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34And his master was angry, and DELIVERED HIM TO THE TORTURERS UNTIL HE SHOULD PAY ALL THAT WAS DUE TO HIM. 35“So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [g]his trespasses. …” – Most Blessed Judge & KING of kings, Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 18:32 – 35, NKJV)

This is Founders Slide 10. Lake of Fire or Hades or both or Neither?

Founders MINISTRY in Christianity – St. Athanasius the Great approved the Didache for Usage which uses the SAME BIBLICAL Phrase “Till the last Penny” as we saw in Founders Slide 9 earlier –

Here’s the Dilemma: Can the word “PRISON” refer to LAKE of FIRE Context or HADES Context?

The Roman Catholics use Matthew 5:25 – 26 or Matthew 18:34 to refer to HADES Context & link it to PURGATORY (quoting even 1 Peter 3:18 – 19’s “PRISON” word but this refers to “unbelievers context who rejected Noah’s preaching on earth” so POSSIBLE Non-Elect Salvation likewise for “some who believe there in Spirit World too” as word “FORMERLY DISOBEDIENT” meaning not disobedient anymore repented in Spirit World means?).

Another POSSIBILITY is that Isaiah 24:21 – 22 uses the word “PRISON” in “Lake of FIRE Context” since it’s AFTER CHRIST RETURNS and Original Word as KJV translates too is VISITED and NOT Punished AFTER MANY DAYS (as shown in Slide 264 which even NIV translation adds a footnote that ORIGINAL WORD can mean “RELEASED” – Check with your Bible Professor if I’m lying or not).

POSSIBILITIES are there with EVIDENCE even SOLA SCRIPTURA like this but which is right let GOD DECIDE as I present the EVIDENCE HONESTLY and GUARD my tongue likewise. This is Founders Slide 10.

[From Page 1800 onward of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook] CHRIST (not me) Says some of those in AFTERLIFE-PRISON can be RELEASED after JUDGMENT or not here?

“… 22 But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in DANGER of HELL [Gehenna] fire. 23Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into PRISON. 26Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till YOU HAVE PAID THE LAST PENNY. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:22 – 26, NKJV)

“… 32Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34And his master was angry, and DELIVERED HIM TO THE TORTURERS UNTIL HE SHOULD PAY ALL THAT WAS DUE TO HIM. 35“So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [g]his trespasses. …” – Most Blessed Judge & KING of kings, Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 18:32 – 35, NKJV)

Please notice the WORD PRISON carefully in each of these BIBLE VERSES only (Sola Scriptura even) to see this POSSIBILITY of NON-ELECT SALVATION for some? I don’t know for sure but this is the EVIDENCE.

“… 18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring [f]us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the SPIRITS in PRISON, 20who FORMERLY were DISOBEDIENT, [g]when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. …” (1 Peter 3:18 – 20, NKJV)

“… 21And it shall come to pass IN THAT DAY, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 22And they shall be gathered together, AS PRISONERS ARE GATHERED IN THE PIT, and shall be SHUT UP IN THE PRISON, and AFTER MANY DAYS shall they be VISITED. …” (Isaiah 24:21 – 22, KJV)


Slide 18 in Founders Powerpoint – Am I obscuring Parables for NON ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY or BEING HONEST with EVIDENCE of CHILIASM Church Fathers? – I believe strongly that if you provide evidence, even if turned out wrong, GOD can FORGIVE in ORACLE/PROPHECY CONTEXT as JEREMIAH 23:36 allows.

Can you do the same with CHILIASM Church Fathers for your claims as per WARNING in Slide 17 earlier and here’s further EVIDENCE for “TILL LAST PENNY” Verses for POSSIBLE NON ELECT SALVATION (if God Wills for some) as per SLIDES 9 and 10 earlier.

The problem here is St. Irenaeus of Lyons only REFUTES the TRANSMIGRATION of SOULS teaching (“reincarnation type”) but is SILENT on the part where these VERSES may REFER to SPIRIT WORLD TYPE SALVATION AFTER JUDGMENT CONTEXT while St. Justin of Rome says that PROPHETS KNEW the TILL LAST PENNY PUNISHMENT in HADES may APPLY to SOME but NOT ALL? (or am I reading him wrong below? You decide but I’m honest with evidence, right?

Can you show me quotes from both St. Irenaeus & St. Justin for your belief likewise for these Verses? Safest way before GOD is always SPEAK with EVIDENCE

“… They affirm that for this reason Jesus spoke the following parable:— Whilst you are with your adversary in the way, give all diligence, that you may be delivered from him, lest he give you up to the judge, and the judge surrender you to the officer, and he cast you into prison. Verily, I say unto you, you shall not go out thence until you pay the very last farthing. Matthew 5:25-26; Luke 12:58-59 … for they declare that the body is the prison. Again, they interpret these expressions, You shall not go out thence until you pay the very last farthing, as meaning that no one can escape from the power of those angels who made the world, but that he must pass from body to body, until he has experience of every kind of action which can be practised in this world, and when nothing is longer wanting to him, then his liberated soul should soar upwards to that God who is above the angels, the makers of the world. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church, First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology, CHILIASM Church Father (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD), Against Heresies (Book I, Chapter 25) – partial)

Roman Catholic Source:
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103125.htm

[From Page 252 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]

“… And in the tenth book he plainly and manifestly wrote what he had LEARNED from the PROPHETS about the JUDGMENT … and was lying on the FUNERAL pile, CAME to LIFE AGAIN, and DESCRIBED the OTHER WORLD. … For we SAW, among other TERRIBLE SIGHTS, this also. When we were dose to the MOUTH [of the PIT], and were about to return to the upper air, and had suffered everything else, we suddenly beheld both him and others likewise, most of whom were tyrants. But there were also some private SINNERS who had committed GREAT CRIMES. And these, when they thought they were to ASCEND, the MOUTH would NOT PERMIT, but bellowed when any of those who were so INCURABLY WICKED attempted to ASCEND, UNLESS they had PAID the FULL PENALTY. … and that the punishments and torments were such as these, and that, on the other hand, the rewards were the reverse of these.” Here PLATO seems to me to have LEARNT from the PROPHETS not only the DOCTRINE of the JUDGMENT, but also of the RESURRECTION …” – Blessed St. Justin of Rome or St. Justin Martyr, PRIEST, CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER, MARTYR for CHRIST, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER XXVII (27) – PLATO’S KNOWLEDGE OF THE JUDGEMENT, JUSTIN’S HORTATORY ADDRESS TO THE GREEKS)

Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0129.htm

Peace to you

End of “till last penny” slides for consideration.

Slide 31 in Founders Powerpoint – 2) First Resurrection, Marriage of the Lamb during the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father Tertullian & St. Irenaeus of Lyons] WHY do CHRISTIANS need to be RAISED in HUMAN FORM first for 1000 years and only then at the END of the Millennial Reign of Christ be changed into “no more flesh and blood” at LAST TRUMPET (Second Resurrection timeline) to become ANGELIC/”gods” to INHERIT FINAL HEAVEN as per CHILIASM Prophecy? Because they need to be REPAID JUSTLY in this SAME OLD EARTH & OLD HEAVENS first after FIRST RESURRECTION where they SUFFERED for THEIR FAITH on this SAME EARTH NEVER RECEIVING the FULL of WHAT they DESERVE in LIFE for ACCURACY of FAITH + GOOD WORKS (so reward gotten is based on all these aspects):

“…1. Inasmuch, therefore, as the opinions of certain [orthodox persons] are derived from heretical discourses, they are both ignorant of God’s dispensations, and of the mystery of the resurrection of the just, and of the [earthly] kingdom which is the commencement of incorruption, by means of which kingdom those who shall be worthy are accustomed gradually to partake of the divine nature (capere Deum ); and it is necessary to tell them respecting those things, that it behooves the righteous first to receive the promise of the inheritance which God promised to the fathers, and to reign in it, when they rise again to behold God in this creation which is renovated, and that the judgment should take place afterwards. For it is just that in that very creation in which they toiled or were afflicted, being proved in every way by suffering, they should receive the reward of their suffering; and that in the creation in which they were slain because of their love to God, in that they should be revived again; and that in the creation in which they endured servitude, in that they should reign. For God is rich in all things, and all things are His. It is fitting, therefore, that the creation itself, being restored to its primeval condition, should without restraint be under the dominion of the righteous; and the apostle has made this plain in the Epistle to the Romans …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology, CHILIASM Church Father, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp, who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church, (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Against Heresies (Book V, Chapter 32, Point 1))  Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103532.htm

[From Page 500 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]

“… Chapter 25. … We say that this city has been provided by God for receiving the saints on their resurrection, and refreshing them with the abundance of all really spiritual blessings, as a recompense for those which in the world we have either despised or lost; since it is both just and God-worthy that His servants should have their joy in the place where they have also suffered affliction for His name’s sake. Of the heavenly kingdom this is the process. After its thousand years are over, within which period is completed the resurrection of the saints, who rise sooner or later according to their deserts there will ensue the destruction of the world and the conflagration of all things at the judgment: we shall then be changed in a moment into the substance of angels, even by the investiture of an incorruptible nature, and so be removed to that kingdom in heaven … when Abraham’s seed, after the primal promise of being like the sand of the sea for multitude, is destined likewise to an equality with the stars of heaven — are not these the indications both of an earthly and a heavenly dispensation? …” …” – Blessed Tertullian, Father of Latin Christianity, Founder of Western Theological Scholarship, CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER (c. 155 AD – c. 240 AD, Against Marcion, Book III, Chapter 25-partial) Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/03123.htm

Slide 32 in Founders Powerpoint – 2) First Resurrection, Marriage of the Lamb during the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father St. Methodius of Olympus]

[From Page 315 onward of the #LastBook];

Combined quotes below for

1) St. Methodius of Olympus believes that the 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Rapture Verse refers to at the START of the CHILIASM 1000 years MILLENNIAL REIGN Timeline and

2) St. Methodius of Olympus believes that the 1 Corinthians 15:52’s “Christians (we) will be changed in the “twinkling of an eye”  Verse refers to at the END of the CHILIASM 1000 years MILLENNIAL REIGN Timeline as CHANGE from HUMAN to ANGELIC TYPE as CHRIST Shares His Divinity with His Bride or Christians only to become no more flesh and blood to inherit heaven  as opposed to many Christians today especially pre-tribulation rapture believers who view both these verses as same timeline and same event  as earlier quote.

“… VII. Now the passage, The dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive, St. Methodius thus explains: Those are our bodies; for the souls are we ourselves, who, rising, resume that which is dead from the earth; so that being caught up with them to meet the Lord, we may gloriously celebrate the splendid festival of the resurrection, because we have received our everlasting tabernacles, which shall no longer die nor be dissolved. …  For I also, taking my journey, and going forth from the Egypt of this life, CAME FIRST TO THE RESURRECTION, which is the true Feast of the Tabernacles, and there having set up my tabernacle, ADORNED WITH THE FRUITS OF VIRTUE, ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE RESURRECTION, which is the DAY OF JUDGMENT, CELEBRATE WITH CHRIST THE MILLENNIUM OF REST, WHICH IS CALLED THE SEVENTH DAY, EVEN THE TRUE SABBATH. … — that is, my body not remaining as it was before, but, AFTER THE SPACE OF A THOUSAND YEARS, CHANGED FROM A HUMAN AND CORRUPIBLE FORM INTO ANGELIC SIZE AND BEAUTY, where at last we virgins, when the FESTIVAL OF THE RESURRECTION IS CONSUMMATED, …”– Blessed St. Methodius of Olympus, bishop in Lycia. Little is known of his life. He was apparently put to death in the Diocletianic persecution. Only a small part of his extensive writing survives. The ‘Symposium [Banquet], or On Chastity’, also known as the ‘Banquet of the Ten Virgins’, extols virginity. In a treatise on the Resurrection, he took issue with Origen and upheld the identity of the resurrection body with that worn in this life. His work on Free Will is a defence of human liberty against the fatalism of the Gnostics (died c. 311 AD, Part 3,  From the Discourse on the Resurrection, , Banquet of the Ten Virgins, Discourse 9, Chapter 5) 

Roman Catholic Source 1: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0625.htm

Roman Catholic Source 2: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/062309.htm

Slide 33 in Founders Powerpoint – 2) First Resurrection, Marriage of the Lamb during the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father St. Ambrose of Milan]

[From Page 338/341 onward of the #ChiliasmBook] where for NON-ELECT SALVATION quotes samples from other CHILIASM Church Fathers quoted especially in context of “till the last penny” judgment verses by CHRIST in the Bible, please see SLIDES 9, 10, 18, 22, 30 earlier in Founders PPT too.

‘… “OUR SAVIOUR has appointed TWO KINDS of RESURRECTION in the APOCALYPSE. ‘Blessed is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION,’ for such COME TO GRACE WITHOUT JUDGMENT. As FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT COME TO THE FIRST, but are reserved unto the SECOND RESURRECTION, THESE SHALL BE DISCIPLINED UNTIL THEIR APPOINTED TIMES, BETWEEN THE FIRST AND THE SECOND RESURRECTION; or, if they should not have fulfilled them then, they shall remain still longer in punishment … ‘ – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD) Source: https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ambrose

Slide 34 in Founders Powerpoint – 3) Second Resurrection and change from human to angelic at the end of this 1000 years Millennial Reign for His Bride/Elect Salvation  [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father St. Justin of Rome] Context for becoming “gods” ONLY  for BRIDE (Elect/Christians) since Christ Shares His Divinity in some way with them and thereafter they JUDGE the rest of “men” of 2nd Resurrection based on CHARITY DOCTRINE POSSIBILITY?

[From Page 587 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]

“… [Justin]: Listen, sirs, how the Holy Ghost speaks of this people, saying that they are all sons of the Highest; and how this very Christ will be present in their assembly, rendering judgment to all men. The words are spoken by David, and are, according to your version [Masoretic] of them, thus: ‘God stands in the congregation of gods; He judges among the gods. How long do you judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Judge for the orphan and the poor, and do justice to the humble and needy. Deliver the needy, and save the poor out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither have they understood; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth shall be shaken. I said, You are gods, and are all children of the Most High. But you die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God! judge the earth, for You shall inherit all nations.’ [Psalm 82] …” –  Blessed St. Justin of Rome or St. Justin Martyr, PRIEST, CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER, MARTYR for CHRIST, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho , Chapter 124)  Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01288.htm

[From Page 195 onward of the #LastBook];


(Why would Christians be SURPRISED on that DAY? So maybe these are some NON-CHRISTIANS since they’re SURPRISED & saved on 2nd resurrection timeline since all Christians already SAVED 1000 years earlier & changed now from human into “angelic (“gods”)” as per CHILIASM quotes?)

“… ‘Assuredly, I SAY TO YOU [Non Elect Salvation], INASMUCH AS YOU [Non Elect Salvation], DID IT TO ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHREN [Elect Salvation], YOU [Non Elect Salvation], DID IT TO ME.’ …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 25:40, NKJV) …”

 So since we cannot force anyone to believe, for those who do not become Christians, we encourage them strongly to DO THE CHARITY DOCTRINE especially TOWARD CHRISTIANS so that in the Worst Case Scenario at least they can appeal to GOD’S MERCY based on these VERSES on JUDGMENT DAY to do a RESPONSIBLE PREACHING. Difficult but POSSIBLE, right?

 “… 37“Then the RIGHTEOUS WILL ANSWER Him, saying, ‘Lord, When Did We See You Hungry And Feed YOU, or THIRSTY AND GIVE YOU DRINK? 38WHEN DID WE SEE YOU A STRANGER and TAKE YOU IN, OR NAKED AND CLOTHE YOU? 39Or WHEN DID WE SEE YOU SICK, OR in PRISON, AND COME TO YOU?’ 40And THE KING WILL ANSWER and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I SAY TO YOU, INASMUCH AS YOU DID IT TO ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHREN, YOU DID IT TO ME.’ … 46And these will go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT, but the righteous into ETERNAL LIFE.”  …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 25:37 – 40, 46, NKJV)

Can majority of Church be wrong in “doctrine/prophecy” by comparing with earliest Church Fathers? Yes & this is not an opinion but seems more like a “Prophecy” below by St. Clement of Rome himself in writing below which was considered “Scripture-Level” by some early Churches (In short, number of people believing something does NOT matter for accuracy aspect):

[From Page 1051 onward of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook]

 “… Who then among you is NOBLE-MINDED? who compassionate? who FULL OF LOVE? Let him declare, “IF ON MY ACCOUNT SEDITION and DISAGREEMENT AND SCHISMS HAVE ARISEN, I WILL DEPART, I WILL GO AWAY whithersoever you desire, and I WILL DO WHATEVER THE MAJORITY COMMANDS; only let the flock of Christ live on terms of peace with the presbyters set over it.” HE THAT ACTS THUS SHALL PROCURE TO HIMSELF GREAT GLORY IN THE LORD; and EVERY PLACE WILL WELCOME HIM. For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof.” These things they WHO LIVE A GODLY LIFE, that is NEVER TO BE REPENTED OF, BOTH HAVE DONE AND ALWAYS WILL DO. … ” – Blessed St. Clement of Rome, an Apostolic Father being a direct Disciple of the Blessed Apostle St. Peter (c.35 AD – c. 99 AD, 1 Clement Chapter 54); no prophecy position is known e.g. chiliasm or non-chiliasm from their survived writings for such as these (fyi)  Source:  http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/1clement-roberts.html  

Slide 35 in Founders Powerpoint – 3) Second Resurrection and change from human to angelic at the end of this 1000 years Millennial Reign for His Bride/Elect Salvation  [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father St. Irenaeus of Lyons] Context for “Christians” becoming “gods” due to CHRIST sharing HIS DIVINITY

[From Page 594 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]

St. Irenaeous of Lyons quotes the same PSALM 82’s “You are GODS” CONTEXT same way as referring to CHRISTIANS:

“…But of what gods [does he speak]? [Of those] to whom He says, I have said, You are gods, and all sons of the Most High [Psalm 82:6]. To those, no doubt, who have received the grace of the adoption, by which we cry, Abba Father. Romans 8:15… For we cast blame upon Him, because we have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods; … For it was necessary, at first, that nature should be exhibited; then, after that, that what was mortal should be conquered and swallowed up by immortality, and the corruptible by incorruptibility, and that man should be made after the image and likeness of God, having received the knowledge of good and evil …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology, CHILIASM Church Father, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp, who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church, (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD,  ‘Against Heresies’, (Book 3(III), Chapter 6), Point 1-partial, & (Book 4(IV), Chapter 38), Point 4-partial))

Source 1: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103306.htm                    

  Source 2: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103438.htm

Slide 36 in Founders Powerpoint – 3) Second Resurrection and change from human to angelic at the end of this 1000 years Millennial Reign for His Bride/Elect Salvation  [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father St. Irenaeus of Lyons] Context that he clearly understands that all Christians are in FIRST RESURRECTION at START of 1000 years which is different from GENERAL RESURRECTION (Second Resurrection) at END of this same 1000 years MILLENNIAL REIGN of CHRIST

[From Page 28/82/112/166/502/880 and 103/541/651 combined onward of the #ChiliasmBook]

 “… And as the presbyters* say, Then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour shall be seen according as they who see Him shall be worthy. [They say, moreover], that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold: for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second will dwell in paradise, the last will inhabit the city; …  And this is the couch on which the guests shall recline, having been invited to the WEDDING. The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, affirm that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved, and that they advance through steps of this nature… For in the TIMES of the KINGDOM, the righteous man who is upon the earth shall then forget to die.John, therefore, did distinctly foresee the FIRST “RESURRECTION of the JUST,” … “… And in the Apocalypse John saw this new [Jerusalem] descending upon the new earth. For AFTER the TIMES of the KINGDOM, he says, “I saw a Great White Throne, and Him who sat upon it, from whose face the earth fled away, and the heavens; and there was no more place for them.”  [Revelation 20:11] And he sets forth, too, the things connected with the GENERAL RESURRECTION and the judgment, mentioning “the dead, great and small.” …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology, CHILIASM Church Father, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp, who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church, (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XXXVI (36), Points 1 – 2, 3-partial & Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter 35, Point 2)  

Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103536.htm

Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103535.htm

Slide 37 in Founders Powerpoint – 3) Second Resurrection and change from human to angelic at the end of this 1000 years Millennial Reign for His Bride/Elect Salvation  [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father St. Irenaeus of Lyons & St. Victorinus] Context that “trumpet” is for FIRST RESURRECTION at START of 1000 years which is different from “LAST TRUMPET” GENERAL RESURRECTION (Second Resurrection) at END of this same 1000 years MILLENNIAL REIGN of CHRIST and so it looks like a second badge of righteous saved during Second Resurrection’s Last Trumpet which St. Irenaeus seems to extend even to his “opponents of Christianity” could be NON-ELECT SALVATION? Difficult, right?

[From Page 278 onward of the #LastBook]

“… 2 At this same first resurrection … dead in Christ will stand first, then we who are living, as we will be taken up with Him in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord [1 Thessalonians 4:17]. A We have heard the trumpet spoken of; it is observed that in another place the Apostle names another trumpet. Therefore he says to the Corinthians: At the last trumpet, the dead will rise, will become immortal, and we will be changed. B He says the dead will be raised immortal for bearing punishments, but it is shown that we are to be changed and to be covered in glory. [1 Corinthians 15:52] Therefore where we hear “the last trumpet,” we must understand also a first, for these are two resurrections. Therefore, however many were not previously to rise in the first resurrection and to reign with Christ over the world [Revelation 20:4 – 6], over all nations, will rise at the last trumpet, after the thousand years, that is, in the last resurrection, among the impious and sinners and perpetrators of various kinds [Revelation 20:11 – 15]. …” – Blessed St. Victorinus, CHILIASM Church Father, Bishop of Pettau, the First and Oldest Christian Commentary on the Apocalypse of John or Book of Revelation, Martyr for Christ (c. 303 AD)

Source [‘Commentary on the Apocalypse’, circa 2nd half of the third century,  Revelation Chapter 20’s Commentary Page 18 in book]: 

https://earlychurchrevival.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/st-victorinus-of-poetovio-translated-by-kevin-edgecomb.pdf

[From Page 218/280/342 onward of the #LastBook]

“… 1. LET OUR OPPONENTS-that is, they who speak against their own salvation-… This was SYMBOLICAL of that MAN who had been BOUND in SINS. … and the DEAD ROSE in the IDENTICAL BODIES, their limbs and bodies receiving health, and that life which was granted by the Lord, who prefigures eternal things by temporal, and shows that it is He who is Himself able to extend BOTH HEALING and LIFE to HIS HANDIWORK, that His words concerning its [future] RESURRECTION may also be believed; so also at the END, when the Lord utters His voice “by the LAST TRUMPET,” [1 Corinthians 15:52] the dead shall be raised, as He Himself declares: “The HOUR SHALL COME, in which ALL THE DEAD which are in the TOMBS shall hear the voice of the Son of man, and shall come forth; those that have DONE GOOD to the RESURRECTION of LIFE, and those that have DONE EVIL to the RESURRECTION of JUDGMENT.” [John 5:28 – 29]…” Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology, CHILIASM Church Father, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp, who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church, (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Against Heresies (Book V, Chapter 13)

Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103513.htm 

Slide 38 in Founders Powerpoint – 3) Second Resurrection and change from human to angelic at the end of this 1000 years Millennial Reign for His Bride/Elect Salvation  [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father Tertullian] Context that where say Tertullian differs from St. Irenaeus, I think St. Irenaeus of Lyons and St. Justin or Rome are more accurate though Tertullian (whom even the Roman Catholic did not “saint him”) can have some quotes accurate but some details maybe inaccurate. I cannot say 100% as that only GOD KNOWS but I present the EVIDENCE as you can see in all these slides HONESTLY.

[From Page 215/317/339 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]

“… . We say that this city has been provided by God for receiving the saints on their resurrection, and refreshing them with the abundance of all really spiritual blessings, as a RECOMPENSE for those which in the world we have either despised or lost; since it is both just and God-worthy that His servants should have their joy in the place where they have also suffered affliction for His name’s sake. Of the heavenly kingdom this is the process. After its thousand years are over, within which period is completed the resurrection of the saints, who rise sooner or later according to their deserts there will ensue the destruction of the world and the conflagration of all things at the judgment: we shall then be changed in a moment into the substance of angels, even by the investiture of an incorruptible nature, and so be removed to that kingdom in heaven of which we have now been treating, just as if it had not been predicted by the Creator, and as if it were proving Christ to belong to the other god and as if he were the first and sole revealer of it. But now learn that it has been, in fact, predicted by the Creator, and that even without prediction it has a claim upon our faith in respect of the Creator. What appears to be probable to you, when Abraham’s seed, after the primal promise of being like the sand of the sea for multitude, is destined likewise to an equality with the stars of heavenare not these the indications both of an earthly and a heavenly dispensation? When Isaac, in blessing his son Jacob, says, God give you of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, Genesis 27:28 are there not in his words examples of both kinds of blessing? Indeed, the very form of the blessing is in this instance worthy of notice. For in relation to Jacob, who is the type of the later and more excellent people, that is to say ourselves, first comes the promise of the heavenly dew, and afterwards that about the fatness of the earth. …” Blessed Tertullian, Father of Latin Christianity, Founder of Western Theological Scholarship, (c. 155 AD – c. 240 AD, Against Marcion, Book III, Chapter 25-partial)

Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/03123.htm

Slide 39 in Founders Powerpoint – 3) Second Resurrection and change from human to angelic at the end of this 1000 years Millennial Reign for His Bride/Elect Salvation  [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father St. Methodius of Olympus] Similarly, context that where say St. Methodius differs from St. Irenaeus, I think St. Irenaeus of Lyons and St. Justin or Rome are more accurate I cannot say 100% as that only GOD KNOWS but I present the EVIDENCE as you can see in all these slides HONESTLY. Also St. Methodius did NOT pray to Virgin Mary and can be seen [From Page 265 onward of the #ChiliasmBook] just like EACH CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER Quoted in this FOUNDERS POWERPOINT (PPT) likewise has NO Prayers to Virgin Mary NOR saints etc. proving these writings could be AUTHENTIC. Charity Doctrine as part of “Seeking Kingdom as GIVE to CHARITY” and KEEP LAMP Burning taught by CHRIST in Luke 12:33, 35 here as it is Written.

“… I celebrate lawfully to His honour a festal-day, adorning my tabernacle, that is my flesh, with GOOD WORKS, as there did the FIVE VIRGINS with the FIVE-LIGHTED LAMPS. … it is for the resurrection, and that without it no one will obtain the promises which we who profess virginity supremely cultivate and offer to the Lord. They also possess it who live chastely with their wives, and do, as it were about the trunk, yield its lowly branches bearing chastity, not being able like us to reach its lofty and mighty boughs, or even to touch them; yet they, too, offer no less truly, although in a less degree, the branches of chastity. … For I also, taking my journey, and going forth from the Egypt of this life, CAME FIRST TO THE RESURRECTION, which is the true Feast of the Tabernacles, and there having set up my tabernacle, ADORNED WITH THE FRUITS OF VIRTUE, ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE RESURRECTION, which is the DAY OF JUDGMENT, CELEBRATE WITH CHRIST THE MILLENNIUM OF REST, WHICH IS CALLED THE SEVENTH DAY, EVEN THE TRUE SABBATH. … — that is, my body not remaining as it was before, but, AFTER THE SPACE OF A THOUSAND YEARS, CHANGED FROM A HUMAN AND CORRUPIBLE FORM INTO ANGELIC SIZE AND BEAUTY, where at last we virgins, when the FESTIVAL OF THE RESURRECTION IS CONSUMMATED, . …” – Blessed St. Methodius of Olympus, CHILIASM Church Father, Bishop of Olympus, (died c. 311 AD, Banquet of the Ten Virgins, Discourse 9, Chapter 2, 4, 5 -highlighted)

Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/062309.htm

Slide 40 in Founders Powerpoint

3) Second Resurrection and change from human to angelic at the end of this 1000 years Millennial Reign for His Bride/Elect Salvation [Sample Quotes by CHILIASM Church Father Tertullian].

Context for 1 Corinthians 15:50 – 52’s “flesh and blood cannot inherit kingdom of God” referring to “Entering heaven” only possible with “no more human but equivalent to some angelic body” and this “change” happens at end of 1000 years.

Roman Catholics assume the 1000 years is a figure of speech & think it’s happening now as a “spiritual resurrection” but this CONTRADICTS Tertullian’s quote here which clearly states Resurrection in the FLESH (or HUMAN) for 1000 years first before CHANGE to ANGELIC at “last Trumpet” at end of 1000 years.

I think Tertullian here is right & agrees with CHILIASM Fathers in earlier slides including the “Book of 1Enoch” also which uses this change word for Judgment Day only as shown in [Pages 32/228/502/598/897 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]; Note that this quote is NOT in any one of the earlier books.

Combined with Slide 38’s quote. So those saved as ONLY HUMANS (Slide 37) with St. Irenaeus’ quote or Slide 225 onward in other 290 slides powerpoint with Bible Verses such as 1 Corinthians 15:40 as even an earthly body with glory ‘cannot be unsaved’, right? (the word “glory”/splendor indicates thus these are NON ELECT SALVATION? Not sure but evidence is possible, right? You decide or ask those talking to GOD directly what HE SAYS because I DON’T KNOW like DANIEL in Daniel 12:8.)

“… Of the heavenly kingdom this is the process. After its thousand years are over, within which period is completed the resurrection of the saints, who rise sooner or later according to their deserts there will ensue the destruction of the world and the conflagration of all things at the judgment: we shall then be changed in a moment into the substance of angels, even by the investiture of an incorruptible nature, and so be removed to that kingdom in heaven …Not that we indeed claim the kingdom of God for the flesh: all we do is, to assert a resurrection for the substance thereof, as the gate of the kingdom through which it is entered. BUT the RESURRECTION is ONE THING, and the KINGDOM is ANOTHER. THE RESURRECTION is FIRST, and AFTERWARDS the KINGDOM. We say, therefore, THAT the FLESH RISES AGAIN, but that WHEN CHANGED it OBTAINS the KINGDOM. “For the dead shall be raised incorruptible,” even those who had been corruptible when their bodies fell into decay; “AND WE SHALL BE CHANGED, in a MOMENT, in the TWINKLING of an EYE.56685668 1 Cor. xv. 52. For this corruptible”—and as he spake, the apostle seemingly pointed to his own flesh—“must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality,”56695669 1 Cor. xv. 53. IN ORDER, INDEED, THAT IT MAY be RENDERED a FIT SUBSTANCE for the KINGDOM of GOD.FOR we SHALL be LIKE THE ANGELS.”56705670 Matt. xxii. 30 and Luke xx. 36. THIS WILL BE THE PERFECT CHANGE of OUR FLESH—ONLY AFTER ITS RESURRECTION.56715671 Sed resuscitatæ. Now if, on the contrary,56725672 Aut si. there is to be no flesh, how then shall it put on incorruption and immortality? HAVING THEN BECOME SOMETHING ELSE BY ITS CHANGE, IT WILL OBTAIN the KINGDOM of GOD, NO LONGER the (OLD) FLESH and BLOOD, but the BODY WHICH GOD SHALL HAVE GIVEN IT. Rightly then does the apostle declare, “FLESH and BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT the KINGDOM of GOD;”56735673 1 Cor. xv. 50. for this (honour) does he ascribe to the changed condition56745674 Demutationi. which ensues on the resurrection…” – Blessed Tertullian, Father of Latin Christianity, Founder of Western Theological Scholarship, CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER (c. 155 AD – c. 240 AD, Against Marcion, Book III, Chapter 25-partial & Book v (5), Chapter X(10)) Roman Catholic Source 1: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/03123.htm Source 2: https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.v.iv.vi.x.html

TQ

LAST Slide 41 in Founders Powerpoint – What is my intention in doing these Powerpoints?

Website Link:

https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/chiliasm-prophecy-possibility-evidence-not-doctrine-as-no-one-can-be-sure-100-as-it-has-not-come-to-pass-but-probability-is-high-just-look-at-the-names-quoted/

1) It’s a GIFT back to GOD for all He had done for me as FRUIT of FAITH mentioned in (Hebrews 11:4 for ABEL); GIFTS (earthly or spiritual things) cannot be SOLD, MUST be FREE for OTHERS and BENEFIT others to be DONE for GOD, right? If Salary, “love offering” etc. is taken but inaccurate, LOWER REWARDS or if really WRONG REJECTED like CAIN, right? (see Slide 24 for St. Justin’s Quote allowing PROPHECY ERROR). 

2) Testimony of Lord Jesus is Spirit of Prophecy (Revelation 19:10) so though I am NOT saying I’m right 100% (I don’t know like Daniel 12:8) but Jeremiah 23:36 allows PROPHECY ERROR if OWN ORACLE mentioned (like us an attempt) but EVERLASTING SHAME if claimed “GOD told me so directly but WRONG” (Jeremiah 23:37 – 40) in comparison.


3) Greater Reward for GLORY for INSIGHT (the actual word in Daniel 12:3) as HEAVENS LEVEL than for CONVERTING MANY which is STARS LEVEL only (the actual word in Daniel 12:3) in FINAL RESURRECTION BODY when CHANGED into ANGELIC as per CHILIASM Prophecy. That’s why we take it seriously and look at the BIGGEST EARLIEST CHURCH FATHER NAMES QUOTED in earlier SLIDES. No point for Catholics, Orthodox or even Pentecostals or other Protestants to discriminate us because if YOU TURNED our RIGHT in MORE INSIGHTS (especially have you ever faced a situation where you wrote something first and many months or years later only you find a CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER quote matching it? So what are the odds it’s wrong? If wrong, how many aspects versus others? Yes PROPHETS and APOSTLES can have ZERO PROPHECY ERROR but the rest if admitting like this, NOT PRIDEFUL can have a chance at such INSIGHT GLORY of DANIEL 12:3 I believe). GOD is indeed FAIR to ALL via KNOWLEDGE which is GREATER than ANY ZEAL for GOD even (Romans 10:2) as He allowed even a “majority Prayers to Virgin Mary non-Chiliasm type Christianity” or even likewise JEWS of the PAST who didn’t KNOW GOD has a SON though were PRIESTS, PRESERVED SCRIPTURE etc. I believe strongly if your heart is more aligned to GOD, HE Will give you GREATER ACCURACY (Slide 33 earlier).

4) Remember anyone can desire to be a BISHOP (1 Timothy 3:1) and certainly are HUNDREDFOLD type reward ones where they CAN HAVE only ONE WIFE and CHILDREN even (1 Timothy 3:2 – 5) as even DEACONS too likewise (1 Timothy 3:12) meaning like in Matthew 19:29’s “leave wife” way is ONE way for HUNDREDFOLD together with LEAVE LANDS, BROTHERS etc. for GOSPEL reasons. What I am saying is even with say INACCURACIES when COMPARED with CHILIASM CHURCH FATHERS & BISHOPS/PRIESTS quotes earlier, if these can be HUNDREDFOLD, how much more those MORE ACCURATE? So I speak FAIRLY to all CHRISTIANS, right? Like TERTULLIAN was MARRIED. Peace.

Slide 42 in Founders PPT – Example of a quote I “missed” in my pdfs or books because I didn’t know the additional way of searching reference where St. John of Damascus whom I quoted say in [Page 1865 to 1866 onward of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook] who is listed even in the Lutheran’s Book of Concord has this STRONGER NON ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY quote that “SHADOW of DEATH” can refer to PUNISHMENT REGIONS of HADES as I have shown say in [Page 194 onward of the #ChiliasmBook] and SOME may be SAVED thereafter even for “some bound for ages” first as he writes (please look carefully at these phrases below)  if GOD Wills it? Surely CANNOT enter heaven type of final new earth residents if this interpretation is true in (Revelation 21:24 – 27) as BRIDE is different in Revelation 21:9? Let GOD Decide but I present the EVIDENCE below (maybe this part of doctrine was preserved right?)

“… The soul2245 when it was deified descended into Hades, in order that, just as the Sun of Righteousness2246 rose for those upon the earth, so likewise He might bring light to those who sit under the earth in darkness 73band shadow of death2247: in order that just as He brought the message of peace to those upon the earth, and of release to the prisoners, and of sight to the blind2248, and became to those who believed the Author of everlasting salvation and to those who did not believe a reproach of their unbelief2249, so He might become the same to those in Hades2250That every knee should bow to Him, of things in heaven, and things in earth and things under the earth2251. And thus after He had freed those who had been bound for ages, straightway He rose again from the dead, shewing us the way of resurrection. …” – Blessed St. John of Damascus, the Last Father of the Church who is a revered Father of the Church, and is recognized as a saint. He is sometimes called the last of the Church Fathers by the Roman Catholic Church. In 1890 he was declared a Doctor of the Church by Pope Leo XIII, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church   (c. 675 AD – c. 749 AD). John of Damascus: Exposition of the Orthodox Faith. An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith. Book III Concerning the Descent to Hades. Chapter XXIX Source via famous Professor Philip Schaff, Professor of Church History and Biblical Literature in the German Reformed Theological Seminary: https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf209.iii.iv.iii.xxix.html

Slide 43 in Founders PPT – BISHOPS (Example of highest HUNDREDFOLD Rewards, right? E.g. Matthew 13:8, Matthew 19:29) can MARRY and remain with ONE WIFE as per 1 Timothy 3:2 in this EARLIEST KNOWN CHURCH ORDER book + CHILIASM Church Father TERTULLIAN’s quote too (where is your MUST RENOUNCE WIFE to be PRIEST/BISHOP quote or Verse? Is it earlier than this? NO, right?);

Quoting many later ones only shows how one error can spread wide, right? The only prohibition written is that if already a bishop (presbyter or deacon) while unmarried cannot marry but can marry first and then become bishop (presbyter or deacon) and be CONTENT with that ONE WIFE meaning CAN REMAIN MARRIED. So that’s WHY I focus on a SINGLE quote but EARLIEST or of such by THOSE in AUTHORITY of DOCTRINE unless you want to say the AUTHOURS of the BOOK of Constitutions of the Holy Apostles were heretics? Silly, right? Also I do NOT see any Prayers to Virgin Mary in this same book (or other books quoted in this Powerpoint such as Shepherd of Hermas to even other CHILIASM Church Fathers & even non-CHILIASM fathers too, so how come they “missed” such a point if it was true and for salvation, right?

“… XVII. We have already said, that a bishop, a presbyter, and a deacon, when they are constituted, must be but once married, whether their wives be alive or whether they be dead; and that it is not lawful for them, if they are unmarried when they are ordained, to be married afterwards; or if they be then married, to marry a second time, but to be content with that wife which they had when they came to ordination …” – BOOK of Constitutions of the Holy Apostles (Book 6, Section 3, Chapter 17) Source: https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf07.ix.vii.iii.html

“… For if bishops have a law of their own teaching monogamy, the other (characteristics) likewise, which will be the fitting concomitants of monogamy, will have been written (exclusively) for bishops. With laics, however, to whom monogamy is not suitable, the other (characteristics) also have nothing to do. …” – Blessed Tertullian, Father of Latin Christianity, Founder of Western Theological Scholarship, CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER (c. 155 AD – c. 240 AD, On Monogamy, Chapter XII (12)) Source: https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.iii.vii.xii.html

I will quote this SAME BOOK of Constitutions of the Holy Apostles even from a “Roman Catholic Source” which when mentions “Virgin Mary” etc. only mentions that NO WOMEN PASTORS etc. but NO Prayers to Virgin Mary or such practices meaning it’s most likely preserved as it is & I am a “heretic” for upholding all these while you are the ‘real Bishop’ teaching AGAINST all these? “Guard” your tongue & be “wise”.

“… Such a one a bishop ought to be, who has been the “husband of one wife,“(14) who also has herself had no other husband, “ruling well his own house.”(15) In this manner let examination be made when he is to receive ordination, and to be placed in his bishopric, whether he be grave, faithful, decent; whether he hath a grave and faithful-wife, or has formerly had such a one; … … THAT WOMEN OUGHT NOT TO TEACH, BECAUSE IT IS UNSEEMLY; AND WHAT WOMEN FOLLOWED OUR LORD. VI. We do not permit our “women to teach in the Church,”(13) but only to pray and hear those that teach; for our Master and Lord, Jesus Himself, when He sent us the twelve to make disciples of the people and of the nations, did nowhere send out women to preach, although He did not want such. For there were with us the mother of our Lord and His sisters; also Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Martha and Mary the sisters of Lazarus; Salome, and certain others. For, had it been necessary for women to teach, He Himself had first commanded these also to instruct the people with us. …” – BOOK of Constitutions of the Holy Apostles (Book 2, Section 1, Chapter 2), & (Book 3, Section 1, Chapter 6), Roman Catholic Source: https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/constitutions-of-the-holy-apostles-apostolic-constitutions-books-iv-11472

Slide 44 –  in Founders PPT. Why do I quote on my website (www.AnonymousChristian.org) we pray for most men to be saved?

Maybe “few” saved by “narrow gate to life” is Elect Salvation (Matthew 7:14) while maybe CHRIST’s RANSOM for “MANY” (not few, e.g. Matthew 20:28) refers to this NON ELECT SALVATION in St. Athenagoras’ quote here? How am I a liar if I just quote possibilities based on such EVIDENCE like this? But each decide after reading both sides, right? GOD Will understand if we have EVIDENCE even if wrong, fair, right?

I base it on one of the earliest Christian apologetics writing by this great Father of the Church (just look at the date) where Blessed St. Athenagoras of Athens (not me) clearly states that MAJORITY of MEN do NOT attain to the OBJECT of GOD’s DECREES to become a CHRISTIAN, right? But yet to these FALLEN ones he seems to ascribe a “COMMON LOT SALVATION” could it be NON ELECT SALVATION as per GENERAL RESURRECTION SAVED by FIRE with NO Reward case (1 Corinthians 3:15 or Daniel 12:10 based on Slides 223 or 224 in “Redemption” 290 PPT earlier) since if these SAVED by FIRE ONES refer to CHRISTIANS DOESN’T it CONTRADICT that LOWEST CHRISTIAN gets THIRTYFOLD MINIMUM REWARD LEVEL (Matthew 13:8 vs Matthew 19:29’s HUNDREDFOLD) which is 1 Corinthians 3:14’s different REWARD CASE but the SAVED by FIRE PERSON gets NO REWARD in 1 Corinthians 3:15 so POSSIBLY some NON-CHRISTIAN as St. Athenagoras’ quote points too here or mixed even with those of till LAST PENNY JUDGEMENT types (SLIDES 9, 10, 18, 22, 30, 33 earlier in Founders PPT)?

[To quote from Page 2216 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

“… And we shall make no mistake in saying, that the final cause of an intelligent life and rational judgment, is to be occupied uninterruptedly with those objects to which the natural reason is chiefly and primaily adapted, and to delight unceasingly in the contemplation of Him who is, and of His decrees, notwithstanding that the MAJORITY OF MEN, because they are affected too passionately and too violently by things below, PASS THROUGH LIFE WITHOUT ATTAINING THIS OBJECT. For the LARGE NUMBER OF THOSE WHO FAIL OF THE END THAT BELONGS TO THEM DOES NOT MAKE VOID THE COMMON LOT, SINCE THE EXAMINATION RELATES TO INDIVIDUALS, and the REWARD or PUNISHMENT OF LIVES ILL OR WELL SPENT IS PROPORTIONED TO THE MERIT OF EACH ….” – Blessed St. Athenagoras of Athens, Apologetics Church Father, In his writings he styles himself as “Athenagoras, the Athenian, Philosopher, and Christian”, in the fragments of the Christian History of Philip of Side (c. 425). Philip of Side claims that Athenagoras headed the Catechetical School of Alexandria (which is probably incorrect and contradicted by Eusebius), Athenagoras is an Ante-Nicene Christian apologist who lived during the second half of the 2nd century (c. 133 AD – c. 190 AD, ‘On the Resurrection of the Dead’ Last Chapter 25)

Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0206.htm


The Definition from Pages 2092 and 2093 earlier may fit St. Athenagoras’ quote above as follows:

i) Elect Salvation = Christians = His Bride Saved to Inherit the Heavens with Gradations of Thirty, Sixty and Hundredfold among them where they inherit all things but have ‘specific difference in rewards too’ with Celestial (“Heavenly”) Final Resurrection Body sharing ONE FLESH with CHRIST in some way to inherit its Glory = “… and to delight unceasingly in the contemplation of Him who is, and of His decrees, … SINCE THE EXAMINATION RELATES TO INDIVIDUALS, and the REWARD or PUNISHMENT OF LIVES ILL OR WELL SPENT IS PROPORTIONED TO THE MERIT OF EACH ….” – Blessed St. Athenagoras of Athens (c. 133 AD – c. 190 AD, ‘On the Resurrection of the Dead’ )

ii) Non Elect Salvation Possibility = NOT Christ’s Bride = NOT Christians so they can be saved probably on at most the Final New Earth with gradation and rewards among them too with Final Earthly (“Terrestrial”) Resurrection Body glory only “… MAJORITY OF MEN, because they are affected too passionately and too violently by things below, PASS THROUGH LIFE WITHOUT ATTAINING THIS OBJECT. For the LARGE NUMBER OF THOSE WHO FAIL OF THE END THAT BELONGS TO THEM DOES NOT MAKE VOID THE COMMON LOT, … and the REWARD or PUNISHMENT OF LIVES ILL OR WELL SPENT IS PROPORTIONED TO THE MERIT OF EACH ….” – Blessed St. Athenagoras of Athens (c. 133 AD – c. 190 AD, ‘On the Resurrection of the Dead’)

Slide 45 – in Founders PPT – Some Scholars claim that St. Athenagoras taught “soul sleep” between now upon death and the resurrection (“soul sleep” is believed say by First Protestant Martin Luther, Tyndale, Wycliffe which I see as clearly WRONG). Truth is St. Athenagoras is only stating that the “body” is “asleep” when the “soul leaves it” and so cannot feel this tangible world as how even such Bible Verses in Ecclesiastes mean.

That quote is understood better when combined with another quote from his only other surviving writing where I combine both for ACCURATE MEANING as follows (you can read and see if I’m lying or just stating the EVIDENCE as it is here where in his second quote St. Athenagoras clearly mentions the CHILIASM Prophecy (e.g. Slide 40) lives in ANOTHER LIFE in “heavenly abodes (compare Slide 29, Revelation 21:9) & NOT earthly (meaning nations saved on final new earth in earthly body “glory” (compare Slide 40 ) could be NON-ELECT SALVATION? (Revelation 21:24 – 27) as Christians are in NOT FLESH ANYMORE but in a HEAVENLY SPIRIT FLESH (Spiritual BODY as Tertullian etc. say with 1 Cor 15:40 – 44 )” or SOME UNSAVED IN FIRE –unsaved (clear below, isn’t it?)

Note he teaches that animal souls/beasts (examples) perish & annihilated but not human-souls. Example of WHY should we read a writing in full first? Whether St. Athenagoras is right or your pastor is right is a different matter but we present it HONESTLY first.

“… because the separation of the soul from the members of the body and the dissolution of its parts interrupts the continuity of life, must we therefore despair of the resurrection. For although the relaxation of the senses and of the physical powers, which naturally takes place in sleep, seems to interrupt the sensational life when men sleep at equal intervals of time, and, as it were, come back to life again, yet we do not refuse to call it life; and for this reason, I suppose, some call sleep the brother of death, not as deriving their origin from the same ancestors and fathers, but because those who are dead and those who sleep are subject to similar states, as regards at least the stillness and the absence of all sense of the present or the past, or rather of existence itself and their own life. If, therefore, we do not refuse to call by the name of life the life of men full of such inequality from birth to dissolution, and interrupted by all those things which we have before mentioned, neither ought we to despair of the life succeeding to dissolution, such as involves the resurrection, although for a time it is interrupted by the separation of the soul from the body. … we are persuaded that when we are removed from the present life we shall live another life, better than the present one, and heavenly, not earthly (since we shall abide near God, and with God, free from all change or suffering in the soul, not as flesh, even though we shall have flesh, but as heavenly spirit), or, falling with the rest, a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere by-work, and that we should perish and be annihilated. On these grounds it is not likely that we should wish to do evil, or deliver ourselves over to the great Judge to be punished. … On the contrary, it is reasonable to suppose, that those who think they shall have no account to give of the present life, ill or well spent, and that there is no resurrection, but calculate on the soul perishing with the body, and being as it were quenched in it, will refrain from no deed of daring; but as for those who are persuaded that nothing will escape the scrutiny of God, but that even the body which has ministered to the irrational impulses of the soul, and to its desires, will be punished along with it, it is not likely that they will commit even the smallest sin …” – Blessed St. Athenagoras of Athens, Apologetics Church Father, In his writings he styles himself as “Athenagoras, the Athenian, Philosopher, and Christian”, in the fragments of the Christian History of Philip of Side (c. 425). Philip of Side claims that Athenagoras headed the Catechetical School of Alexandria (which is probably incorrect and contradicted by Eusebius), Athenagoras is an Ante-Nicene Christian apologist who lived during the second half of the 2nd century (c. 133 AD – c. 190 AD), ‘On the Resurrection of the Dead’ Chapter 16) Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0206.htm
and ‘A Plea for the Christians’ Chapter 31, 36) Roman Catholic Source too: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0205.htm

Slide 46 – in Founders PPT – Blessed Arnobius (died c. 330) did he preserve some knowledge of Christ which is more accurate such as Annihilation of the Wicked after some long time of punishment in that last Judgment of Fire first?

I am aware that the Catholic scholars point that “…he holds the heathen gods to be real beings, but subordinate to the supreme Christian God; the human soul is not the work of God, but of an intermediate being, and is not immortal by nature, but capable of putting on immortality as a grace. …” which IF he MEANT this is CERTAINLY WRONG.

Regardless of his own opinions this “Intermediate Hell part” he says is from “Christ’s Teaching” (learnt from others before him?) as he corrects Plato’s errors by saying those who don’t know God perish while some are DELIVERED from DEATH in that HADES INTERMEDIATE HELL Context if they have heeded GOD’s THREATS and FAVOURS which can mean NON ELECT SALVATION in Point 14 where if Christian, in Point 34 he says we escape that “death of suffering” (possibly NO intermediate Hell as ‘Purgatory’ concept errs unless PURGATORY for NON-ELECT Salvation) and Christians are ENRICHED with ETERNAL LIFE immediately upon death? Whether he is right or not that’s what he is saying here, right? So we consider it as a POSSIBILITY HONESTLY and compare with SLIDES 9, 10, 18, 22, 30, 33, 44 earlier in Founders PPT for similar thoughts? Let God Decide.


“… 14. Do you dare to laugh at us when we speak of hell, and fires which cannot be quenched, into which we have learned that souls are cast by their foes and enemies? What, does not your Plato also, … And yet his opinion is not very far from the truth. For although the gentle and kindly disposed man thought it inhuman cruelty to condemn souls to death, he yet not unreasonably supposed that they are cast into rivers blazing with masses of flame, and loathsome from their foul abysses…. For theirs is an intermediate state, as has been learned from Christ’s teaching; and they are such that they may on the one hand perish if they have not known God, and on the other be delivered from death if they have given heed to His threats and proffered favours. And to make manifest what is unknown, this is man’s real death, this which leaves nothing behind. For that which is seen by the eyes is only a separation of soul from body, not the last end — annihilation: this, I say, is man’s real death, when souls which know not God shall be consumed in long-protracted torment with raging fire, into which certain fiercely cruel beings shall cast them, who were unknown before Christ, and brought to light only by His wisdom. … 34. … and on what grounds are we charged with folly, if we bow down and worship His name and majesty from whom we expect to receive both these blessings, that we may at once escape a death of suffering, and be enriched with eternal life?….” – Blessed St. Arnobius, Apologetics Church Father, St. Jerome says, in his Chronicle, that before his conversion Arnobius was a distinguished rhetorician at Sicca in Proconsular Africa, and owed the gift of Christian faith to a dream. To overcome the doubts of the local bishop as to the earnestness of his Christian belief he wrote (about 305) an apologetic work in seven books that St. Jerome calls (Illustrious Men 79) “Adversus Gentes” but is entitled “Adversus Nationes” in the only (ninth-century) manuscript that has reached us. Arnobius is a vigorous apologist for the Christian Faith, defends and expounds its noble monotheism (deus princeps, deus summus), the Divinity of Christ and of the Christian religion, proved by its rapid diffusion, its incredible influence over uncivilized peoples, and its agreement with the views of the best philosophers (died c. 330 AD, ‘Against the Heathen (Book II [2])’ Points 14 & 34)

Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/06312.htm

Slide 47 – in Founders PPT – Blessed Arnobius (died c. 330) whom I think did not saint for some of his own opinion/errors (please see Slide 46) – but even the Roman Catholics have ONLY Blessed Arnobius’ quote for PRAYER for the DEAD part apart from CHILIASM Church Father Blessed Tertullian & unknown position of Chiliasm or not Church Father Blessed St. Cyprian during that timeline as you can see in this link: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04653a.htm (the rest being later fathers or non-Church Fathers or anonymous authours etc.).

What’s my point? We saw in Slide 46 that Blessed Arnobius believed that Christians are “immediately at once saved” upon death (Against the Heathen, Book 2 (II), Point 34) but also wrote below in this same book of his that CHRISTIANS can PRAY for SOME of the DEAD WHO COULD be NON ELECT SALVATION? as this same Catholic source earlier quotes as follows “… Arnobius speaks of the Christian churches as “conventicles in which…peace and pardon is asked for all men…for those still living and for those already freed from the bondage of the body” (Adv. Gent., IV, xxxvi, P.L., V, 1076) …”.

Now Catholics use this quote to prove prayers for purgatory but I seem to see NON ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY stronger because his quote in Slide 46 says Christians are immediately saved and his ONLY QUOTE for POSSIBLY SOMEONE SAVED in the SPIRIT WORLD INTERMEDIATE STATE (also showed in Slide 46) seems to point to those SENT to HADES ANALOGY for PUNISHMENT as per PLATO but Arnobius says Plato errs thinking that’s final judgment in “soul state” stating there is future FINAL Judgment for such in Resurrected Body state which can lead to ETERNAL FIRE which eventually leads to annihilation BUT at the SAME TIME for those in INTERMEDIATE STATE Blessed Arnobius seems to see SOME of them SAVED or DELIVERED from DEATH so NON ELECT SALVATION?

If he did NOT see it as possible, WHY did he teach to PRAY for SOME of the DEAD since in his own words ELECT SALVATION CHRISTIANS are already IMMEDIATELY SAVED upon DEATH? Again this seems to be HONEST EVIDENCE and whether Arnobius is right or not let GOD Decide & so we take it as a NON ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY too, right?. Here’s those quotes combined: compare with SLIDES 9, 10, 18, 22, 30, 33, 44 earlier in Founders PPT for similar thoughts?

“… 14. For theirs is an intermediate state, as has been learned from Christ’s teaching; and they are such that they may on the one hand perish if they have not known God, and on the other be delivered from death if they have given heed to His threats and proffered favours. And to make manifest what is unknown, this is man’s real death, this which leaves nothing behind… . 36. … For why, indeed, have our writings deserved to be given to the flames? Our meetings to be cruelly broken up, in which prayer is made to the Supreme God, peace and pardon are asked for all in authority, for soldiers, kings, friends, enemies, for those still in life, and those freed from the bondage of the flesh; in which all that is said is such as to make men humane, gentle, modest, virtuous, chaste, generous in dealing with their substance [Charity Doctrine], and inseparably united to all embraced in our brotherhood?…” – Blessed Arnobius, Apologetics Church Father, St. Jerome says, in his Chronicle, that before his conversion Arnobius was a distinguished rhetorician at Sicca in Proconsular Africa, and owed the gift of Christian faith to a dream. To overcome the doubts of the local bishop as to the earnestness of his Christian belief he wrote (about 305) an apologetic work in seven books that St. Jerome calls (Illustrious Men 79) “Adversus Gentes” but is entitled “Adversus Nationes” in the only (ninth-century) manuscript that has reached us. Arnobius is a vigorous apologist for the Christian Faith, defends and expounds its noble monotheism (deus princeps, deus summus), the Divinity of Christ and of the Christian religion, proved by its rapid diffusion, its incredible influence over uncivilized peoples, and its agreement with the views of the best philosophers (died c. 330 AD, ‘Against the Heathen (Book II [2])’ Point 14) &(Book IV [4])’ Point 36)

Roman Catholic Sources: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/06312.htm & https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/06314.htm


Slide 48 – in Founders PPT Powerpoint – Non Elect Salvation Possibility in Roman Catholic & Orthodox Official Church Doctrinal Possibility (Grey Area); so I have stated nothing beyond the official position of the ancient churches either except bring to light those forgotten ancient writing which might help this view.

Since it’s an official grey area of these ancient churches, so we won’t go to hell if wrong on it either. If some protestants think this possibility is too heretical, then please don’t do any ministry say Charity Doctrine with Roman Catholics nor Orthodox either and not just us to be honest. We can do Charity Doctrine with “anyone” as we have no such restrictions.

Here’s example proof [From Page 229 or detailed from Page 296 (most are shocked if they read it) onward of the free pdf #LastBook]; Notice that Catholic + Orthodox still is about more than 60% of Christians even today in 2024 (how much more in earlier times). In short, in NON ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY (I coined the term, that’s the only difference) none of the possibility or wording I use is AGAINST any official Church Words as you can compare here.

So I am NOT a heretic.

If this part of Church Doctrine is preserved rightly, then a way it is possible is that the BRIDE from HEAVEN (Revelation 21:9) is CHRISTIANS (Elect Salvation, Few Matthew 7:13 – 14) while the “NATIONS who are SAVED” (Revelation 21:24 – 26) be it BY FIRE too for MANY (1 Corinthians 3:15, Daniel 12:10, Matthew 20:28) are NON-CHRISTIANS where most CANNOT enter HEAVEN (Revelation 21:27, Matthew 7:21) and this is NOT 1000 years Millennial Reign Timeline which is on OLD EARTH & OLD Heavens (Revelation 20:4 – 6) but after WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT DAY (Revelation 20:11 – 15) and on FINAL NEW EARTH and NEW HEAVENS (Revelation 21:1 – 4) as former things are gone by then. Please read earlier “Founder” & Redemption” Powerpoints for Evidence.

1) Roman Catholic Church Sample Quote

“… Church laws regarding public offices for the dead There is no restriction by Divine or ecclesiastical law as to those of the dead for whom private prayer may be offered — except that they may not be offered formally either for the blessed in heaven or for the damned. Not only for the faithful who have died in external communion with the Church, but for deceased non-Catholics, even the unbaptized, who may have died in the state of grace, one is free to offer his personal prayers and good works; nor does the Church’s prohibition of her public offices for those who have died out of external communion with her affect the strictly personal element in her minister’s acts. …”

Source: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04653a.htm

2) Orthodox Church Sample quote

“…In our times. Professor John N. Karmiris, University of Athens, based on his studies of the Church Fathers, concludes that the salvation of non-Christians, non-Orthodox and heretics depends on the all-good, allwise and all-powerful God, who acts in the Church but also through other “ways.” God’s saving grace is also channelled outside the Church. It cannot be assumed that salvation is denied non-Christians living in true piety and according to natural law by the God who “is love” (1 John 4:8), In his justice and mercy God will judge them worthy even though they are outside the true Church.[18] This position is shared by many Orthodox who agree that God’s salvation extends to all who live according to His “image” and “participate in the Logos.” The Holy Spirit acted through the prophets of the Old Testament and in the nations. Salvation is also open outside the Church.[19] …” – An Orthodox Christian View of Non-Christian Religions (Rev. Dr. George C. Papademetriou)

Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America Source:

https://www.goarch.org/-/an-orthodox-christian-view-of-non-christian-religions

Slide 3 in Interesting Bible Stuff (IBS) Powerpoint – Great Commission – which type of Christianity fulfilled it most? – Some Christians think that their local Church must be correct or only ones saved since they are busy doing missionary work. Going by that logic, the biggest fulfillment of Great Commission is by Roman Catholics (if we count till year 2024).

Notice that Catholic + Orthodox still is about more than 60% of Christians even today in 2024 (how much more in earlier times?). Also can we apply the John 15:5 Verse and say that Roman Catholics must be most accurate then since they produced most number of converts within Christianity and so they abided in Christ? If any protestants disagree then what’s so special about say their smaller numbers or missionary works as even Roman Catholics & Orthodox too have plenty of those who “suffered & died for Christ as well as brought Gospel to new lands 1st time”, right?

Notice Pentecostals are only a part of protestants which also include classical ones who say don’t have women pastors etc.. So what I think from Church History is accuracy of doctrine declines with number as even the time of Christ shows it & I think CHILIASM Church Fathers were most accurate (details where they differ or what they meant can be debated as possibilities).

Fruit is NOT number of converts NOR Prosperity but how many commands obeyed and also how much of doctrinal accuracy even Charity Doctrine + Holiness as many Verses Testify (e.g. Matthew 5:17 – 20). NOT saved by works but gradation in heaven based on “works/His Commands” in “relative measure” example in Christ’s Parable of Minas where “different number of cities for ruling given” in Luke 19:17 – 18 (5 vs 10 etc.) Great Commission has “teach them to obey all that I commanded you” part (Matthew 28:18 – 20) so how can it change (e.g. women pastors allowed after 1900 years etc.?) End.

“… Demographics Of Christianity. Christianity, a faith that began nearly 2,000 years ago in the Middle East, is now followed by 2.4 billion people, and is the primary religion practiced throughout the Americas, Europe, Oceania and sub-Saharan Africa. Half of Christians identify as Catholic, 37 percent Protestant, 12 percent Orthodox and 1 percent “Other”. The United States is home to the largest Christian population (11.3% of the world total), followed by Brazil (8%), and Mexico (5%). …”

Source: https://populationeducation.org/world-population-by-religion-a-global-tapestry-of-faith/

Slide 50 – in Founders PPT – Powerpoint – Who is the FALSE PROPHET and FALSE TEACHER? – Blessed St. Justin of Rome clearly says here that the Context of Matthew 24:11 is that MANY (not few) of the FAITHFUL (“Christians”, not heretics) will be DECEIVED by FALSE PROPHETS & FALSE APOSTLES. Notice he still calls them “FAITHFUL” meaning they are ELECT SALVATION despite being in ERROR in PROPHECY aspect (please compare with his other quotes in Slide 24 & 41 in Founders Powerpoint).

Testimony of Lord Jesus is Spirit of Prophecy (Revelation 19:10) so though I am NOT saying I’m right 100% (I don’t know like Daniel 12:8) but Jeremiah 23:36 allows PROPHECY ERROR if OWN ORACLE mentioned (like us an attempt) but EVERLASTING SHAME if claimed “GOD told me so directly but WRONG” (Jeremiah 23:37 – 40) in comparison. Example: Say if you find a CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER quote matching it? So what are the odds it’s wrong? If wrong, how many aspects versus others? Yes PROPHETS and APOSTLES can have ZERO PROPHECY ERROR but the rest if admitting like this, NOT PRIDEFUL can have a chance at such INSIGHT GLORY of DANIEL 12:3 I believe).

I have showed clearly that NON ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY is within Catholic and Orthodox approved thoughts till today in Slide 48 of Founders Powerpoint. Example proof [From Page 229 or detailed from Page 296 (most are shocked if they read it) onward of the free pdf #LastBook].

So nothing we contemplate leads anyone to Hell if presented responsibly as a POSSIBILITY and NOT DOCTRINE on things we are NOT 100% sure and neither taking money nor putting these up for sale to prove sincerity as how can you sell something unless it must be 100% correct or if not isn’t it cheating others? That’s why PROPHECY materials should NEVER be sold since it hasn’t come to pass & cannot be known yet 100%. St. Justin of Rome’s Combined quote below shows that the FAITHFUL (Christians) have HOLINESS, JUSTICE (e.g. no racism, nepotism, etc. remember CHRIST knows) & CHARITY DOCTRINE.

“… For he said, ‘Many shall come in My name, clothed outwardly in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.’ Matthew 7:15 And, ‘There shall be schisms and heresies.’ 1 Corinthians 11:19 And, ‘Beware of false prophets, who shall come to you clothed outwardly in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.’ Matthew 7:15 And, ‘Many false Christs and false apostles shall arise, and shall deceive many of the faithful.’ Matthew 24:11 … But we have received by tradition that God does not need the material offerings which men can give, seeing, indeed, that He Himself is the provider of all things. And we have been taught, and are convinced, and do believe, that He accepts those only who imitate the excellences which reside in Him, temperance, and justice, and philanthropy, and as many virtues as are peculiar to a God who is called by no proper name. And we have been taught that He in the beginning did of His goodness, for man’s sake, create all things out of unformed matter; and if men by their works show themselves worthy of this His design, they are deemed worthy, and so we have received — of reigning in company with Him, being delivered from corruption and suffering. …” – Blessed St. Justin of Rome or St. Justin Martyr, PRIEST, CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER, MARTYR for CHRIST, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho , Chapter 35) Roman Catholic Sources: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01283.htm or https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.viii.iv.xxxv.html & The First Apology, Chapter 10. How God is to be served Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm

Slide 5 in Interesting Bible Stuff (IBS) Powerpoint – Preaching the Gospel is also about Preaching what Christ Said and not only preaching about Him as He famously remarks the Great Denial of NOT Entering Heaven Context as follows as “… “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?…” (Luke 6:46 – 49 links it to House on the Rock Context which is same for Matthew 7:21 – 27) and please notice carefully that the DENIED from HEAVEN ‘so called “Christians”’ CONVERTED MANY (notice the word “MANY”) but did so focusing on “PROPHESYING, CASTING out DEMONS & MIRACLES in HIS Name” with LAWLESSNESS. The OPPOSITE Verses about WHO gets INTO FINAL NEW HEAVEN (notice word “Heaven”) in Matthew 25:31 – 46 does NOT just mention “righteous” but also those who did CHARITY DOCTRINE of “When I was HUNGRY, THIRSTY, NAKED, HOMELESS etc.” which can refer to BOTH EARTHLY and SPIRITUAL GOODS shared for FREE in RELATIVE MEASURE. Example CHILIASM Church Father Blessed St. Justin of Rome’s quote in Last Slide 50 in Founders Powerpoint reads the SAME (note “Philanthropy” means “Charity Doctrine” there) and We PREACH the SAME and try to do any little way by GOD’s GRACE. Relative Measure means “thief on the cross” or the “poor financially NO need to do CHARITY DOCTRINE MUCH” as even Blessed Apostle St. Paul taught this COMMAND ONLY for the RICH for ETERNAL LIFE CONTEXT in 1 Timothy 6:17 – 19. End.

Slide 6 in Interesting Bible Stuff (IBS) Powerpoint – There is NO tithing NOR WOMEN Pastors taught for New Testament Churches (1900 years of Christianity before Pentecostalism is PROOF of it from CHURCH Fathers to even PROTESTANT FOUNDERS Martin Luther, John Calvin & John Wesley all NEVER TITHED NOR TAUGHT it and also NONE of these had WOMEN PASTORS so are they “unfaithful and in hell”?

So STOP PRETENDING that NO-WOMEN PASTOR and NO TITHES POSITION is FALSE unless any of your leaders have done more than ALL CHURCH FATHERS + PROTESTANT FOUNDERS quoted with Proof quotes in Page 42 & 142 onward of #DoctrineBook – In fact, CHRIST’s Verse on it in LUKE 11:39 – 44 proves CHARITY DOCTRINE is MORE IMPORTANT than TITHES (so what’s to argue anymore? Does your BIBLE read DIFFERENTLY? How?)

Best is Acts 20:7 used for TITHES support itself talks about the MONEY COLLECTED WILLINGLY (NO TITHES NOR FIRST-FRUITS “word” used can you see it?) and used for CHARITY DOCTRINE meaning CHURCH MONEY support is for ALL the SAINTS (Church Members included and NOT for PASTORS/PRIESTS only, by discretion of Bishop leadership so no funds are abused & only given to verified needs according to relative measure of income).

NOT one Bible New Testament Verse Says TITHES is for PASTORS ONLY or CHURCH MONEY is for PASTORS only (where?).

ALL earliest Church Fathers taught CHURCH MONEY for CHARITY DOCTRINE with so MANY BIBLE Verses too. Example quote here by St. Jerome (non-Chiliasm Church Father) and St. Irenaeous of Lyons (CHILIASM Church Father). GOD Will Judge & worst is “prosperity gospel” with Church Money which can lead to Hell as Church Fathers Warn too with Bible Verses (let God Decide).

Better be safe and how can one say one is “serving God” if Doctrine of Money is wrong since CHRIST Said, either one will “Serve God” or “Money” (Mammon) in Luke 16:13 meaning this is infallible proof of who serves God and not (in short, this money doctrine cannot be wrong for it implies serving mammon – who you think taught rightly as “no” tithes and “no” women pastors doctrine (e.g. all Church Fathers & Protestant Founders in Page 42 & 142 onward of #DoctrineBook who caused all missionary work in 1900 years versus some small modern evangelism Pentecostal tithers which hasn’t even beaten 60%+ of Christians being Roman Catholic + Orthodox & a portion of protestants only?).

“… I say what the blessed Apostle Paul says in nearly all his Epistles; and he makes it a rule for the Churches of the Gentiles that, on the first day of the week, that is, on the Lord’s day, contributions should be made by every one which should be sent up to Jerusalem for the relief of the saints, … that money be sent to Jerusalem and to the holy places for the faithful; not to gratify avarice, but to give relief; not to accumulate wealth, but to support the weakness of the poor body, and to stave off cold and hunger. And this custom continues in Judea to the present day, not only among us, but also among the Hebrews, so that they who49774977 Ps. i. 2.meditate in the law of the Lord, day and night, …” – Blessed St. Jerome of the Vulgate, the Second Great Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 347 AD – c. 420 AD, Jerome: Letters and Select Works Treatises. Against Vigilantius. Source: https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf206.vi.vii.html

[CHARITY DOCTRINE even to ENEMIES below as CHRIST Taught in Matthew 5, taught by REAL BISHOPS from Page 65/391/446 onward of the #DoctrineBook]

“… and instead of the law enjoining the giving of TITHES, [He told us] to share ALL our possessions with the POOR; and not to love our neighbours only, but even our ENEMIES; .…” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp, First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology, CHILIASM Church Father (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Against Heresies (Book IV, Chapter 13, Point 3)) Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103413.htm

Slide 8 in Interesting Bible Stuff (IBS) Powerpoint – St. Augustine of Hippo facts & possibilities

1) St. Augustine NEVER ordained women pastors/priests so some modern writers attack him as follows (but yet he is one of God’s Chosen No. 1 “faith generals” till today while his attackers are ‘nothing’ in comparison to him) and also proves that GOD can use even SUCH a MAN when he REPENTED so NO point in discriminating others with SIMILAR FALLS (maybe that’s why their opponents NEVER progress to such levels of SPIRITUAL ACCURACY)

354 – 430 AD. Born in North Africa; bishop of Hippo from 396 to his death. Note. Augustine deserves much credit as a seeker, a theologian and a writer. But honesty demands that we also acknowledge another side to him. “This Augustine who had made love to women and perhaps to men, who could not control his own sexual problems, who was constantly torn between lust and frustration, who could in all sincerity pray: ‘Give me chastity . . . . , but not yet!’ (Confessions 8,7), who only became devout after he had ravished whores to his heart’s content, when his weakness for women, as so often happens to older men in later life, turned into the opposite . . . , this Augustine created the classic patristic doctrine on sin, a morality in which especially sexual desire was condemned. Augustine has influenced Christian morality decisively, as well as the sexual frustrations of millions of Europeans unto our own day.” (K. Deschner, De Kerk en haar Kruis, Arbeiderspers, Amsterdam 1974, pp. 326-327). Source: https://womenpriests.org/tradition/august-augustine/

My personal comment: St. Augustine at most broke the 7th Commandment on adultery which is LOWER than WOMEN PASTORS (if wrong) breaking the HIGHER 3rd Commandment on taking God’s Name in Vain unless on Judgment Day God Says He Spoke from around year 1900 onward personally to some and allowed WOMEN Pastors then they will be right! So we can stand NEUTRAL and NOT participate in such RISKS and see one day.

2) One of the strangest thing about women pastor supporters is that they like to quote the “woman in the well” example whom Christ met in John 4 who told the city to come meet Christ which has nothing to do with being a pastor but women can call others tor tell about Christ for sure and they all ignore the fact that THIS WOMEN was WORSE than St. Augustine or others too because she CONTINUALLY LIVED with 5 HUSBANDS changing them living in pleasure as CHRIST pointed out as St. Irenaeous points it out below too (from Slide 255 in Founders PPT):


“… that erring Samaritan woman — who did not remain with one husband, but committed fornication by [contracting] many marriages — …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp, First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology, CHILIASM Church Father (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Against Heresies (Book 3, Chapter 17) Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103317.htm


Another comment: St. Irenaeous of Lyons and other CHILIASM Church Fathers DO NOT have any such falls like St. Augustine etc. and were much HOLIER men. So they too did NOT believe in any WOMEN PASTORS either and they COULD be MORE ACCURATE in CHILIASM Prophecy timeline POSSIBILITY as I showed in Founders Powerpoint (unless I’m reading them wrong which we can discuss or debate, fair, right?)

Slide 9 in Interesting Bible Stuff (IBS) Powerpoint – St. Augustine of Hippo facts & possibilities – Part 2 of 2 – Believing in OSAS to NON ELECT SALVATION of even UNIVERSALISM in CHRISTIAN FAITH does NOT lead anyone to HELL for if so, St. Augustine ALLOWED it in his quote in image meaning he led PEOPLE to ETERNAL HELL, right?

Where St. Augustine affirms SALVATION is for those who BELIEVE & DO in CHRIST’s CHARITY DOCTRINE COMMANDS too as CORE DOCTRINE while discussing this in same quote CONTEXT but WARNS PURGATORY for those who did NOT do ENOUGH CHARITY DOCTRINE as meaning of SAVED by FIRE in his own words here as how can one believe in Christ and ignore God’s Charity Doctrine Commands by Relative Measure unless one is unable to do due to circumstances and on Judgment Day is among least who received such helps as it is Written in Matthew 25, right? (example: see Slides 5 to 7 earlier) ;

Better to be “saved” among the “few”, right? (Matthew 7:13 – 14) which includes St. Augustine, right? So how am I a false teacher if whatever I taught and quoted even as a POSSIBILITY is within St. Augustine of Hippo one of the most SPIRIT FILLED man? [From Page 222 onward of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook]

Please notice carefully that St. Augustine believed in the CHARITY DOCTRINE as a MUST FOR REPENTANCE and ALSO FOR JUDGMENT of SINS to be REMOVED by Relative Measure in his quote here as he contrasts some type of Salvation (possibly non-Elect) is believed by such OSAS Christians who can be saved if they personally LIVED HOLY with CHARITY DOCTRINE even if they erred doctrinally on OSAS and/or NON-ELECT SALVATION.

“… 67. There are SOME, indeed, WHO BELIEVE THAT THOSE WHO DO NOT ABANDON the NAME OF CHRIST, and WHO ARE BAPTIZED in his laver in the Church, who are NOT CUT OFF FROM IT BY SCHISM or HERESY, WHO MAY THEN LIVE IN SINS HOWEVER GREAT, NOT WASHING THEM AWAY BY REPENTANCE, NOR REDEEMING THEM BY ALMS –and WHO OBTINATELY PERSEVERE IN THEM TO LIFE’S LAST DAY – EVEN THESE WILL STILL BE SAVED, “THOUGH AS BY FIRE.” [1 Corinthians 3:15] THEY BELIEVE THAT SUCH PEOPLE WILL BE PUNISHED BY FIRE, PROLONGED IN PROPORTION TO THEIR SINS, BUT STILL NOT ETERNAL. BUT THOSE WHO BELIEVE THUS, and are STILL CATHOLICS, ARE DECEIVED … Yet even in his wrath–his wrath resting on them–he does not “shut up his mercy.” This is not to put an end to their eternal afflictions, but rather to apply or interpose some little respite in their torments. … Now, if this wrath were all there is in man’s damnation, and even if it were present only in the slightest degree conceivable–still, to be lost out of the Kingdom of God, to be an exile from the City of God, to be estranged from the life of God, to suffer loss of the great abundance of God’s blessings which he has hidden for those who fear him and prepared for those who hope in him240 –this would be a punishment so great that, if it be eternal, no torments that we know could be compared to it, no matter how many ages they continued. …” – Blessed St. Augustine of Hippo, Doctor of the Church, who influenced virtually all of subsequent Western philosophy and Catholic theology, as well as a significant amount of Protestant theology (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD, Point 67, 69 CHAPTER XVIII, Points 112 – 113, CHAPTER XXIX. “The Last Things”, Enchiridion).

Source: http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/augustine_enchiridion_02_trans.htm

My new added comment: Some may be saved in that final new earth as nations who are saved (Revelation 21:24 – 27) but may never enter heaven as His Bride as contrasted in Revelation 21:9. Which interpretation is right? Let God Decide but if we present “evidence” honestly even with St. Augustine of Hippo (considered No. 1 theologian of Christianity after the Apostles’ time in terms of popularity, missions & doctrinal impact and even due to endorsements by “holiest & faithful priests/men/women etc,across the Roman Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants even, so nothing we contemplate as a POSSIBILITY (not doctrine as not 100% sure) ever LEADS anyone to HELL if shared this way with respect & love.

Slide 10 in Interesting Bible Stuff (IBS) Powerpoint – You point to a man who was once an ADULTERER (e.g. St. Augustine of Hippo or Blessed legendary King David of Israel himself) but THEY REPENTED. Now these same “Prosperity Gospel” persons think they have heart & trying to SAVE SOULS from HELL which is TRUE, have they PREACHED to you say 1 Timothy 5:6 and James 5:3 – 5 as I have shown in “Redemption Powerpoint” Slide 287?

The “widow” even in 1 Timothy 5:6 is mentioned to be DEAD based on PROSPERITY SIN alone as ORIGINAL WORD here means “MONEY CONTEXT & NOT lust but translated as ‘wanton/pleasure’ because no exact equivalent word exists in English. Can you see the ORIGINAL meaning?

James 5:3 – 5 mentions SIN of HOARDING TREASURE (“Money”) in LAST DAYS as equivalent to FLESH eaten by FIRE on JUDGMENT DAY (don’t mix other sins mentioned separately such as not paying wages of workers to God’s Level of ‘what would you pay yourself if you were that unfortunate race etc.’ but same skill level?’) meaning SIN of HOARDING alone leads to HELL in the LAST DAYS meaning Abraham time or Old Testament time NOT a SIN yet JUST like can have MANY WIVES too (this phrase “LAST DAYS” [New Testament Times now] in James 5:3) – Have we preached it or manipulated it?

Can hoard if CHARITY DOCTRINE level HIGH (1 Timothy 6:17 – 18). St. Augustine of Hippo mentions some could be SAVED by PURGATORY FIRE in Slide 9 IBS earlier echoes Shepherd of Hermas’ some to “corruption but hope of renewal” as possible NON Elect Salvation (Slides 286 – 287 in Redemption PPT and Slide 22 in Founders PPT) outside final Heaven (not His Bride/Church, Revelation 21:9) possibly on final new earth (Revelation 21:24 – 27) at most.

Regardless of the “NON Elect Salvation possibility part”, doesn’t the PROSPERITY GOSPEL part leads SOULS to HELL while some to LOSS of REWARDS based on BIBLE VERSES quoted UNLESS that same RICH PERSON is expected to be RICH-LEVEL CHARITY DOCTRINE GOOD WORKS (not normal once in a while level but if POORER & DISCRIMINATED than you person does it, isn’t it OVER-FULFILLING this VERSE) as even Apostle St. Paul taught for ETERNAL LIFE in 1 Timothy 6:17 – 18 as per Slides 5 to 7 in IBS earlier?

Which part of these makes me a FALSE TEACHER? If your PASTOR/PRIEST did NOT teach you or your families these Verses while TAKING SALARY and LOVE OFFERING etc. from you, shouldn’t you be angry with them (now you understand me)? Peace to you

Slide 11 in Interesting Bible Stuff (IBS) Powerpoint – When people ask me whether which side of war for Country A vs Country B are you on, I tell them neither as per Micah 3:5, 9 – 10 which identifies “false prophets” based on this “doctrinal” trait alone & Blessed St. Irenaeous & Tertullian’s beautiful CHILIASM answer or others in quote in image below and also reply that USUALLY BOTH COUNTRY A and COUNTRY B are NOT Christians so how is it CHRIST’s Fault in any way?

Their own beliefs and interpretations cause it as shown [From Page 375 onward of the #LastBook] (even misguided Christians join in too sometimes; all will be judged by GOD One Day).

Many err in thinking wrongly about “God’s Will” this way: For example some think without say “Crusades war/Praying to Virgin Mary” to “women pastors” the Gospel would not have been preached/spread.

Truth is, 1900 years of Christianity spread without a woman pastor & even in modern Christianity now, 60% (Catholic + Orthodox) + a part of Protestants (40%) also DO NOT have women pastors so evangelism is MORE without them and similarly CHRISTIANITY spread across ROMAN empire WITHOUT ONE WAR despite Christians being KILLED until Emperor CONSTANTINE converted proving New Testament BIBLE Way CAN CONVERT people regardless.

So showing some end result does NOT justify the means and our NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE way has no condemnation while theirs GOD WILL JUDGE can or not. Peace

“Learn about the incorruptible King, and know his heroes who never inflict slaughter on the peoples.”
— Pseudo-Justinian (180AD)2

“We have learned not to return blow for blow, nor to go to law with those who plunder and rob us. Instead, even to those who strike us on one side of the face, we offer the other side also.”
— Athenagoras (175AD)4

“We have rejected such spectacles as the Coliseum. How then, when we do not even look on killing lest we should contract guilt and pollution, can we put people to death?
— Athenagoras of Athens (133AD – 190AD)5

“It is absolutely forbidden to repay evil with evil.”
— Tertullian (160AD – 220AD)6

“For what difference is there between provoker and provoked? The only difference is that the former was the first to do evil, but the latter did evil afterwards. Each one stands condemned in the eyes of the Lord for hurting a man. For God both prohibits and condemns every wickedness. In evil doing, there is no account taken of the order.… The commandment is absolute: evil is not to be repaid with evil.” — Tertullian (160AD – 220AD)9

“The Lord will save them in that day—even His people—like sheep.No one gives the name of “sheep” to those who fall in battle with arms in hand, or those who are killed when repelling force with force. Rather, it is given only to those who are slain, yielding themselves up in their own place of duty and with patience—rather than fighting in self-defense.” — Tertullian (160AD – 220AD)15

“But if the law of liberty, that is, the word of God, preached by the apostles (who went forth from Jerusalem) throughout all the earth, caused such a change in the state of things, that these nations did form the swords and war-lances into ploughshares, and changed them into pruning-hooks for reaping the corn, that is, into instruments used for peaceful purposes, and that they are now unaccustomed to fighting, but when smitten, offer also the other cheek, then the prophets have not spoken these things of any other person, but of Him who effected them. This person is our Lord.”
— Irenaeus (130AD – 202AD)28

Source: https://www.rivalnations.org/early-church-writers/

Slide 14 in Interesting Bible Stuff (IBS) Powerpoint – Can Christians be a “Soldier or Police”? Can they “kill” if need arises to protect?

Example question: Has anybody have the right to take someone’s life when they see the person is suffering due to extreme injuries, comatose, or bed ridden and such, just to ease their suffering. What does the bible say?

Example reply: Oh nobody has right to take anyone’s life for those reasons. In the New Testament only policing type of force can kill as Romans 13:4 teaches. Notice that those days there is no difference between “police vs military” but one has to ensure the person killed (if necessary) was truly evil for if not, judgment of being a murderer can ensue. But didn’t I say in Slide 11 that Christians are prohibited from force? Yes that’s referring to generally but only for this case mentioned here is allowed as I quote the SAME CHILIASM CHURCH FATHERS Blessed St. Irenaeus of Lyons & Tertullian as follows:

“…and therefore does He say, “He sent His armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.”43824382 Matt. xxii. 7. He says here, “His armies,” because all men are the property of God. For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof; the world, and all that dwell therein.”43834383 Ps. xxiv. 1. Wherefore also the Apostle Paul says in the Epistle to the Romans, “…. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, the avenger for wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. … Paul the apostle also says upon this same subject: “Be ye subject to all the higher powers; for there is no power but of God: now those which are have been ordained of God.”46574657 Rom. xiii. 1. And again, in reference to them he says, “For he beareth not the sword in vain; for he is the minister of God, the avenger for wrath to him who does evil.”46584658 Rom. xiii. 4. Now, that he spake these words, not in regard to angelical powers, nor of invisible rulers— as some venture to expound the passage—but of those of actual human authorities, [he shows when] he says, “For this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, doing service for this very thing.”46594659 Rom. xiii. 6. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp, First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology, CHILIASM Church Father (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Against Heresies: Book IV, Chapter XXXVI and Book V, Chapter XXIV.) Sources: https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.vi.xxxvii.html and https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.vii.xxv.html

“… The vengeance which is inflicted among men upon the homicide is really as great as that which is imposed by nature. Who would not prefer the justice of the world, which, as the apostle himself testifies, “beareth not the sword in vain,”17231723 Rom. xiii. 4. and which is an institute of religion when it severely avenges in defence of human life? When we contemplate, too, the penalties awarded to other crimes—gibbets, and holocausts, and sacks, and harpoons, and precipices—who would not think it better to receive his sentence in the courts of Pythagoras and Empedocles? …” – Blessed Tertullian, Father of Latin Christianity, Founder of Western Theological Scholarship, CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER (c. 155 AD – c. 240 AD), Apologetic. A Treatise on the Soul. The Judicial Retribution of These Migrations Refuted with Raillery. Chapter XXXIII, Source: https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.iv.xi.xxxiii.html


Slide 12 in Interesting Bible Stuff (IBS) Powerpoint – John Wesley was the Last MAJOR Protestant Founder & he, Martin Luther, John Calvin all HAVE the HOLY SPIRIT and taught the SAME in this NO WOMEN PASTOR DOCTRINE like ALL CHURCH FATHERS as well (actual BIGGEST SOUL WINNERS of all time listed, see?).

Today they sit on LUTHERAN, METHODIST “chairs” and appoint women pastors betraying (disobeying) their own FOUNDERS and then ask me to obey their leadership? (see the irony?)

What does the BIBLE Say? Can 1 Timothy 2:12 be skipped from 1900’s? Also if that Verse talks only about husband, so a ‘woman pastor’ cannot teach her husband but can teach any other man? Wouldn’t God have allowed women to teach her husband first before He allows her to teach other men? That’s WHY NO Founders dared rewrite this part until PENTECOSTALISM arrived. Now you see WHY I don’t risk myself with all these as New Testament way is 100% approved (safe).

[From Page 147, 151, 153 onward of the #DoctrineBook]

3) John Wesley (Co-Founder of Methodism)

“… 32: For the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets – But what enthusiast considers this? The impulses of the Holy Spirit, even in men really inspired, so suit themselves to their rational faculties, as not to divest them of the government of themselves, like the heathen priests under their diabolical possession. Evil spirits threw their prophets into such ungovernable ecstasies, as forced them to speak and act like madmen. But the Spirit of God left his prophets the clear use of their judgment, when, and how long, it was fit for them to speak, and never hurried them into any improprieties either as to the matter, manner, or time of their speaking. 34: Let your women be silent in the churches – Unless they are under an extraordinary impulse of the Spirit. For, in other cases, it is not permitted them to speak By way of teaching in public assemblies. But to be in subjection – To the man whose proper office it is to lead and to instruct the congregation.(Ge 3:16). 35: And even if they desire to learn anything – Still they are not to speak in public, but to ask their own husbands at home – That is the place, and those the persons to inquire of. 36: Are ye of Corinth either the first or the only Christians? If not, conform herein to the custom of all the churches. 37: Or spiritual – Endowed with any extraordinary gift of the Spirit. Let him – Prove it, by acknowledging that I now write by the Spirit. 38: Let him be ignorant – Be it at his own peril. …” – Blessed John Wesley (Co-Founder of Methodism, Wesley’s Notes on the Bible, on 1 Corinthians 14)

Source: http://bible.christiansunite.com/wes.cgi?b=1Co&c=14

“… Methodist founder John Wesley (1703–1791) and Methodist theologian Adam Clarke (1762–1832) both upheld male headship, but allowed that spiritual Christian women could publicly speak in church meetings if they “are under an extraordinary impulse of the Spirit” (Wesley),[38] and that such were to obey that influence, and that “the apostle lays down directions in chap. 11 for regulating her personal appearance when thus employed.” (Clarke)[39] Puritan theologian Matthew Poole (1624–1679) concurred with Wesley, adding, “But setting aside that extraordinary case of a special afflatus, [strong Divine influence] it was, doubtless, unlawful for a woman to speak in the church.”[40]. Matthew Henry (1662–1714) in his commentary, entertains allowing “praying, and uttering hymns inspired” by women, as such “were not teaching”.[41] …”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Church_history

What does the BIBLE Say?

Part of WOMEN to be SAVED DOCTRINE in 1 Timothy lists this CONDITION of NOT HAVING WOMEN PASTORS as part of GODLINESS DOCTRINE as follows (Bible Verses not opinions):

“… 9in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and [e]moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, 10but, which is proper for WOMEN PROFESSING GODLINESS, WITH GOOD WORKS. 11Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12And I DO NOT PERMIT A WOMAN to TEACH OR TO HAVE AUTHORITY OVER A MAN, but TO BE IN SILENCE. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15Nevertheless SHE WILL BE SAVED IN CHILDBEARING if they continue in FAITH, LOVE, AND HOLINESS, WITH SELF-CONTROL. …” (1 Timothy 2:9 – 15, NKJV)

I repeat: Can Verse 12 be skipped from 1900’s? Also if that Verse talks only about husband, so a ‘woman pastor’ cannot teach her husband but can teach any other man? Wouldn’t God have allowed women to teach her husband first before He allows her to teach other men? That’s WHY NO Founders dared rewrite this part until PENTECOTALISM arrived. Now you see WHY I don’t risk myself with all these as New Testament way is 100% approved (safe).

Slide 13 in Interesting Bible Stuff (IBS) Powerpoint – APOSTLES & PROPHETS have ZERO Prophecy error (Deuteronomy 18:22) and ‘claiming God told directly and WRONG has ETERNAL Shame/rejection (Jeremiah 23:37 – 40) while claiming OWN ORACLE/PROPHECY attempt is OKAY if WRONG (Jeremiah 23:36). Doctrinal Aspect (each page number stated is from free pdf #DoctrineBook e.g. R (180) is page 180 from www.AnonymousChristian.org).

*Chiliasm Prophecy aspects (e.g. now is not 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ, 1000 years resurrection in human body during first resurrection when Christ Returns & to be repaid before change into angelic at end of 1000 years with no more flesh and blood during Second Resurrection timelime as His Bride (Revelation 21:9) which could have non-elect salvation as nations saved but not enter final new heaven (Revelation 21:24 – 27) whom even the “Bride” (Church/Elect) calls to drink of “Water of Life” freely to those in human form on final new earth at that time (Revelation 21:6, Revelation 22:17, Isaiah 49:9 – 10) as Bride (Church) did during when it was “human form” earlier (e.g. Revelation 7:14 – 17) as no one can drink “water of life” unless in final “resurrected” human Form where “angelic or no more flesh and blood form” (1 Corinthians 15:52) and does NOT need water of life anymore since ONE FLESH WITH CHRIST GREAT MYSTERY (Ephesians 5:31 – 32) as “gods” (Psalm 82). None of reformers write this and some sketches in other fathers but ONLY EARLIEST CHILIASM CHURCH FATHERS DIRECT SPIRITUAL LINEAGE FROM APOSTLES OR ALMOST SCRIPTURE WRITINGS FROM THAT ERA SUCH AS SHEPHERD OF HERMAS OR BOOK OF 1ENOCH seem to echo some or all the above in their writings as I have shown in FREE PDFS & 3 Powerpoints with additional quotes not found in pdfs too Titled “REDEMPTION PPT”, “FOUNDERS PPT” and “IBS PPT”. Whether I am quoting “Chiliasm” Church Fathers rightly can be debated or discussed. Isn’t this how HONESTY is to be presented with PROOF? Shalom

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Christian Founders Ministry Powerpoint” which will be updated with info from time to time (beginning 9 May 2024 onward):

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1qnT4GtEV_1lUpGLZsMbCf1jRKqcRp3lL/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117647441539375745387&rtpof=true&sd=true

Redemption290 Slides Free Powerpoint Link discussing variety of topics (Done as of April 2024):

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1C3FZh5AFL2aNDy9s7TA0TphwmF7dBbpP/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=103161103828141436650&rtpof=true&sd=true

“Interesting Bible Stuff Powerpoint” (IBS PPT – started 3 June 2024 onward, may be updated from time to time by God’s Grace)

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1bxOCjLTsou-Yf_gvcz2Rc_QHOk5HzHog/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=118355506267983381053&rtpof=true&sd=true

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/pfbid0AoSUWHd4cy12XhJoBUyTJsNPhZLzpTCzkNX2AeHDNVQUh2sZQvHS5FSH29vgtsvxl

TQ

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