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Earning Salvation Fallacy

Earning Salvation Fallacy and God’s Commands by Faith Mystery to the Endless Beauty of His Written Word

Last Updated: 3 July 2022

 

 

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#BibleandChurchFathersQuoteBook

 

Latest Update: 5 Dec 2022

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page of Contents for this #BibleandChurchFathersQuoteBook

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#IgnoredChristianDoctrineBook

 

Latest Update: 19 February 2022

 

This book is written to look at how some Christian Doctrines are Ignored by some modern Christians as not so important.  Therefore we try our  best not to repeat the usual Doctrines which are already well Revealed and accepted across mainstream Christianity such as the Doctrine of Trinity to the Doctrine of Holiness and rather choose to Speak about the other New Testament Bible Verses which pertain to some of these Ignored Doctrines and Possibilities so that a Christian may decide his walk of faith better and not be discouraged by empty words against it sometimes (by those who preach a simplified saved by Grace Doctrine ignoring the fruits of Salvation or in some cases ignoring the Rewards Doctrine for Works as Revealed for this New Testament).

 

The free pdf may be found in link below:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DZcb07EAX5z1wcg7BMMY5GwCkUpc76J3/view?usp=sharing

 

Thank you

 

 

#SafeRouteScripturallyBook

 

Latest Update: 31 Oct 2022

 

This book is written to explain some key Christian Doctrine position we take to be Safe Scripturally highlighting the Risks with Bible Verses for those who do otherwise. This is important to as a Christian because we do not want Christ Questioning us one day regarding ‘Why we didn’t warn others?’ based on Verses below:

 

“… When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you shall surely die!’ and YOU DO NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED FROM HIS WAY, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; BUT HIS BLOOD I WILL REQUIRE AT YOUR HAND. Nevertheless IF YOU WARN the WICKED to TURN FROM HIS WAY, and he does not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but YOU HAVE DELIVERED YOUR SOUL. …” (Ezekiel 33:8 – 9, NKJV)

 

This does not necessarily mean that the opposite positions to what we propose as the Safe Route Scripturally in this Book must we wrong but rather in some cases it could be so if God permitted it. However the risk of the opposite positions is still there because we prove our position with Bible Verses and the opposite positions usually pertain to New Modern Ways which some Christians have claimed that God told them do so especially based on the Progressive Revelation Movement which we do not support.

 

Since only God Knows whether their claims are true or not, we do not judge those Christians letting God Judge them alone. However, we also point out to them to have respect for these First Ways of the Church especially which are Written in Bible Verses because the Doctrinal Position we demonstrate is already Plainly Written in Holy Scripture and so it is already 100% Approved by New Testament Scripture and the First Churches which obeyed it are already Saved by Practicing it and that’s why we seek to Imitate Scripture likewise.  Big number of Christians following a Doctrine or believing in something is not necessarily a sign of Truth which is easy to prove for any Protestants since no matter what blessing or evangelism they claim, the Roman Catholics beat them in financial blessings to number of souls and so by that logic, does it justify Praying to Virgin Mary? So claiming such proofs is not Biblical but rather we point to Bible Verses only for each claim.

 

 

The free pdf may be found in link below:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HUXXa2kgpImEpVWFg4AN0SBc0x4ulSLn/view?usp=share_link

 

Thank you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

“Prosperity Testimony” – Questions to Ponder

 

A General Scenario: Imagine your country has majority of religion A and race B but a person of religion C and race D becomes its king by Democracy. So if that “king” comes and gives a testimony of his life, would you leave your religion and convert to that instead?

 

This is a reason “why” I do “not” believe in any “Prosperity” as a

“sign of truth”.

 

The “king” may be from subrace D1 while the others from his native country may be from subrace D2, D3, … where even among them they won’t support those of another subrace easily or if any from their subrace is not of the same religion of C, can you see it?

 

In fact, they won’t even allow subrace D2, D3, etc. to marry those of subrace D1 or some selected subrace only to do so. But despite such racism hidden within their own hearts even, they can be among the “richest” people in the world too. God Will Reveal everything One Day.

 

While people from race D or others wish to be “king” in the land of majority religion A and race B, in their own “native land/motherland” NO ONE from race B or others who do not believe in religion C will ever be a “king” there (in their “motherland”) by “democracy”, an irony isn’t it?

 

The only “Genuine Truth” here I see is that the people of majority religion A and race B have been able to PRACTICE JUSTICE beyond their own religion A and race B which itself puts them at a MORAL LEVEL that is UNSURPASSED by their other counterparts. The day the others can do similarly in not just “appointing a king” but also in “other matters of business and life” then they get closer to “God’s Truth”. Till then, it’s just a “prosperity game” which is an “illusion” which destroys one in the “spirit world”.

 

A similar thing can be seen in regards to “Prosperity Churches” vs “Poorer Churches” likewise in analogy.

 

That’s why Christ put the Command of PERFECTION not as “prosperity” but the CHARITY DOCTRINE:

 

“… 21JESUS said to him, “IF you want to be PERFECT, go, SELL what YOU HAVE and GIVE to the POOR, and YOU WILL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN; and come, FOLLOW ME.” 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away SORROWFUL, for he had GREAT POSSESSIONS. 23Then JESUS said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is HARD for a RICH MAN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. 24And AGAIN I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. …” (Matthew 19:21 – 24, NKJV)

 

That’s why in CHRIST’s OWN WORDS here we see that the GREATEST NUMBER is “ZERO” for those who can do “ZERO PROSPERITY” of “… SELL what YOU HAVE and GIVE to the POOR, and YOU WILL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN; and come, FOLLOW ME. …” which I CANNOT DO (so even a scrap of heaven or at the final new earth would suffice for me) but the Greatest Fathers of the Church the world has even known (as I have quoted say in the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook) have done it remarkably. Please note that letting go of wealth and living like a hermit does NOT count much if the “wealth was left to the family” earlier as that person by relative measure did NOT give anything to the poor. I mean the best is to give some to family and according to one’s ability give to the poor as well.

 

An Edifying Comment: Can the country of origin of such persons allow those NOT of same race NOR of same religion to hold such portfolio likewise? (or will they never vote for such even if the candidate is good? NOT just in POLITICS but any field too like for example in Education even they grab the “paying teaching opportunities to themselves instead of the candidate of best qualification among them even” as that’s their “moral level even toward same race but different religion” is only at that level of “prejudice” even. So, Let all Answer God One Day).

 

Conclusion

 

You see it is People who send themselves to “Hell” (even if “Eternal so be it”) due to “their own injustice and unholiness within them” as these few points in comparison itself shows.

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Especially those which affect the “future in the Spirit World and beyond” after we die toward the “Resurrection”.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

St. Ambrose of Milan seems to be very CONFIDENT of SUCH NON ELECT SALVATION from the LAKE of FIRE CONTEXT as his quotes next seem to point, right?

 

 

 

 

 

Source: https://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/sib/sib04.htm

 

Page 1867 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook .

Page 1908 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook

 

 

#MysteryoftheKingdomofHeavenBook

 

Please find the Latest Draft of a New Book Titled  “Mystery of the Kingdom of Heaven in First Christianity” (Completed 31 January 2022) in pdf (free download/viewing) in link below:

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.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-zX7XgzguBYHkXWucUZ6xfMInbwtj0Z3/view?usp=sharing

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Short Description of Book

 

This Book explores the Mystery of the Kingdom of Heaven beginning with Christ’s Most Blessed Words Found in Holy Scripture and explores related Bible Verses and other First Christianity Quotes especially from the Church Fathers who were direct disciples of the Apostles themselves or their disciples to understand this better and explore related topics by giving Church History examples too where relevant.

 

Thank you

 

 

Free E-Books are Available in link below including the latest one titled:

https://play.google.com/store/books/author?id=Jonathan+Ramachandran

 

 

Here’s another Draft of a new book too

 

 

Here’s another Draft of a new book too

 

#CharityDoctrineBook

 

This Book explores mostly the Bible Verses related to the Charity Doctrine aspect apart from looking at some other related topics regarding Christian Perfection. Its contents are not well listed out but for a keen reader it will be more of a treasure hunt for Bible Verses on such Topics together with First Christianity quotes in support of it where possible. A 100 year old or 500 year old Christianity cannot fully Reveal 2000 year old Christianity’s Mysteries and Secrets.

 

The free pdf may be found in link below:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MiCYDzxbOc0yAZhT9Es9U7yL6XLuV0Qz/view?usp=sharing

 

 

Thank you

 

#EternalHellAnnihilationandUniversalismBook

 

Please find the Latest Draft of a New Book Titled

 

“Eternal Hell Annihilation and Universalism in Christianity – Can all three be true A Look with the Apostolic Fathers” (Completed 24 December 2021) in pdf (free download/viewing) in link below:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N5bK-LoBAg4VQN8eLtVWsqkQyoGE0Ad_/view?usp=sharing

 

Short Description of Book

 

This Book explores the Bible Verses to see whether Eternal Hell Annihilation and Universalism in Christianity can be true simultaneously in some way especially from writings of the Church Fathers who were direct disciples of the Apostles themselves or their disciples to understand this better via those writings called the Apostolic Fathers. We only quote the Apostolic Fathers Writings as modern Scholarship calls it such since these are the earliest Christian Writings known and which were accepted in First Christianity. The later fathers and Christians even if 1 million of them believe in it can err since they may be repeating what one particular church father has said or interpreted. In light of this fact, it may be best to look at these earliest and best ones known to Christianity outside the Bible.

 

Thank You

 

 

 

 

 

 

Source for Martin Luther’s Quote in image:

 

https://thetruthinlove.net/martin-luther-on-women-pastors/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Biblical Doctrine of “Saved by Grace” and Role of “Works”.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thief on the Cross case and beyond

Example Question: How does the “Thief on the cross” fit in your theology?

 

Relative Measure. The “thief on the cross” couldn’t do anything more. He wasn’t even baptized and so no need baptism contradicts other verses. Similarly the Saved by Grace through Faith verse Predestined Good Works in Ephesians 2 also doesn’t apply unless these are meant by “Relative Measure” .

 

Please note that even the work of “Holiness” of the 10 Commandments does NOT save either but that doesn’t mean one need not obey it . The similar logic applies to other commands of Christ especially Good Works which is the “Charity Doctrine” as it fulfills the Two Greatest Commandments as Christ Himself Taught it to be fulfilled together and not separately as the second is the proof of the first in Mark 12:29 – 31, Luke 10:25 – 37. Please be careful of “Lawlessness“.

 

Apostle Paul taught likewise that though Good Works doesn’t save us, it must be done as fruit again describing the Christian as a people who are primarily known for “meeting urgent needs” type of Good Works which is the “Charity Doctrine” when Teaching this Context for “Fruit” to avoid being “Unfruitful“. Verses:

 

“…  14who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself HIS OWN SPECIAL PEOPLE, ZEALOUS FOR GOOD WORKS. … 1Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be READY FOR EVERY GOOD WORK, 2to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men … 4But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, … 8This is a FAITHFUL SAYING, and THESE THINGS I WANT YOU TO AFFIRM CONSTANTLY, that THOSE WHO HAVE BELIEVED IN GOD should be CAREFUL TO MAINTAIN GOOD WORKS. These things are good and profitable to men. … 14And let OUR PEOPLE also LEARN TO MAINTAIN GOOD WORKS, to MEET URGENT NEEDS, that they may NOT BE UNFRUITFUL. …” (Titus 2:14, 3:1, 4 – 5, 8, 14, NKJV)

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

Mystery of the Galatians Gospel Context for Eternal Life

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161797432847784

 

Are we Preaching the ‘right’ Gospel which the Book (Epistle) of Galatians Reveals?

 

What matters for REAPING ETERNAL LIFE is CHARITY DOCTRINE DONE to BELIEVERS (CHURCH) and also ALL MEN (non-believers) as Apostle Paul in Galatians made it clear that while “no” other Works of Law are needed which make “bondage“, this particular “Work of Love” REAPS EVERLASTING LIFE as these Verses clearly Prove as it is Written:

 

“… 6Let him who is taught the word share in all good things with him who teaches. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he WHO SOWS TO THE SPIRIT WILL OF THE SPIRIT REAP EVERLASTING LIFE. 9And let us NOT GROW WEARY while DOING GOOD, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us DO GOOD TO ALL, ESPECIALLY TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF FAITH. …” (Galatians 6:6 – 10, NKJV)

 

Deeper Context argument:

 

Any Bible Scholar would easily point to you that the Book of “Galatians” is all about whichGospel is Correct” and strangely NOT one Verse speaks of the Phrase “Eternal Hell or Universalism” or equivalent even in this ENTIRE BOOK OF GALATIANS CONTEXT (can you see it?) apart from the curse at the start in Galatians 1:8.

 

I mean when Apostle St. Paul gave the WARNING that ACCURSED (or “Anathema“) be to ANYONE WHO PREACHES A DIFFERENT GOSPEL at the START of this Book (Letter) of GALATIANS itself, this means that those context (say of Eternal Hell vs Annihilation vs Universalism) was NOT A TOPIC at ALL in this Book (if anyone says otherwise, please show me which Verse?) but rather that the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle is at the HEART of what it means to REAP EVERLASTING LIFE (as Galatians 6:6 – 10) above clearly REVEAL as it is WRITTEN. Can you see it?

 

Here is that Warning:

 

“…But even if we, or an angel from heaven, PREACH any OTHER GOSPEL to you than what we have preached to you, let him be ACCURSED [“Anathema”]. …” (Galatians 1:8, NKJV)

 

I mean to avoid beingAnathema” (some translations render it as ‘eternally condemned’ we should PREACH the SAME as the POINTS MENTIONED in this Book of GALATIANS where it PRIMARILY concludes that for ETERNAL LIFE CONTEXT it is the #CHARITYDOCTRINE for REAPING EVERLASTING LIFE as Galatians 6:6 – 10 clearly Reveal as it is Written.

 

Can you see it?

 

Here it is in other translations and this is WHY WE PREACH the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle likewise too to PREACH the SAME GOSPEL to AVOID ANATHEMA RISK (Let God Decide):

 

“… 2BEAR ONE ANOTHER’S BUDENS, and so FULFILL the LAW of CHRIST. 3For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4But let each one EXAMINE HIS OWN WORK, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5For each one shall bear his own load.6Let him who is taught the word SHARE IN ALL GOOD THINGS WITH HIM WHO TEACHES. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he WHO SOWS TO THE SPIRIT WILL OF THE SPIRIT REAP EVERLASTING LIFE. 9And let us NOT GROW WEARY while DOING GOOD, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us DO GOOD TO ALL, ESPECIALLY TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF FAITH. …” (Galatians 6:2 – 10, NKJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/nkjv/galatians/6.htm

 

This #CharityDoctrineLifestyle which is for the CONTEXT to REAP EVERLASTING LIFE is called the LAW of CHRIST Definition clearly in these Quoted Verses “as it is Written“. Please notice this carefully in Verses above and please DO NOT be DECEIVED.

 

Please be careful of #Lawlessness and rather focus on this #LawOfChrist for #EternalLife which clearly ONLY refers to the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as I have discussed in detail in Pages 1208 and 1209 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook .

For “married” women, the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle is fulfilled if they DID IT TO THEIR OWN CHILDREN (by RAISING and PROVIDING for them WELL, the ‘mother actions’) which is all they need to do as her part of GOOD WORKS to FULFILL this #LawOfChrist as these Verses clearly mean for her role as the meaning of this mysterious phrase ‘SHE WILL BE SAVED IN CHILDBEARING’ too as I have discussed in detail in [ Pages 403 to 420 of the #CharityDoctrineBook ]:

 

“… 9in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and [e]moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, 10but, which is proper for WOMEN PROFESSING GODLINESS, WITH GOOD WORKS. 11Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12And I DO NOT PERMIT A WOMAN to TEACH OR TO HAVE AUTHORITY OVER A MAN, but TO BE IN SILENCE. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15Nevertheless SHE WILL BE SAVED IN CHILDBEARING if they continue in FAITH, LOVE, AND HOLINESS, WITH SELF-CONTROL. …” (1 Timothy 2:9 – 15, NKJV)

 

1) Galatians 1:8 in a few translations

 

New International Version

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

 

New Living Translation

Let God’s curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of Good News than the one we preached to you.

 

English Standard Version

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

 

Berean Study Bible

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse!

 

 

Berean Literal Bible

But even if we or an angel out of heaven should preach a gospel to you contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let him be accursed!

 

King James Bible

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

New King James Version

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

 

New American Standard Bible

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

 

NASB 1995

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

 

NASB 1977

But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

 

Amplified Bible

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we [originally] preached to you, let him be condemned to destruction!

 

Christian Standard Bible

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, a curse be on him!

 

Holman Christian Standard Bible

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel other than what we have preached to you, a curse be on him!

 

American Standard Version

But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema.

 

Aramaic Bible in Plain English

But even if we or an Angel from Heaven should evangelize you outside of that which we have evangelized you, we or he would be damned;

 

Contemporary English Version

I pray that God will punish anyone who preaches anything different from our message to you! It doesn’t matter if that person is one of us or an angel from heaven.

 

Douay-Rheims Bible

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.

 

Good News Translation

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel that is different from the one we preached to you, may he be condemned to hell!

 

International Standard Version

But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that person be condemned!

 

Literal Standard Version

but even if we or a messenger out of Heaven may proclaim good news to you different from what we proclaimed to you—let him be accursed!

Source: https://biblehub.com/galatians/1-8.htm

2) Galatians 6:6 – 10 in a few translations

 

  1. i) NIV

 

“…  2Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. 4Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, 5for each one should carry their own load. 6Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word should share all good things with their instructor. 7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. …” (Galatians 6:2 – 10, NIV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/niv/galatians/6.htm

 

 

  1. ii) NASB

 

“… 2Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ. 3For if anyone thinks that he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting, but [a]to himself alone, and not [b]to another. 5For each one will bear his own load. 6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a person sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will reap destruction from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit. 9Let’s not become discouraged in doing good, for in due time we will reap, if we do not become weary. 10So then, [c]while we have opportunity, let’s do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith. …” (Galatians 6:2 – 10, NASB)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/nasb_/galatians/6.htm

 

 

iii) ESV

 

“…2Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. 5For each will have to bear his own load. 6Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. 7Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. 10So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith. …” (Galatians 6:2 – 10, ESV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/esv/galatians/6.htm

 

“… There is no wisdom or understanding Or counsel against the LORD. …” (Proverbs 21:30, NKJV)

 

I am “not” Preaching anything New here regarding Galatians Context but only what is Written.

 

If it feels new, it’s probably because you may have “not” preached “nor” noticed what is Written in the Book of Galatians for “Everlasting Life Context“.

 

Whether we believe these “New Testament Verses” or not (it does “not” change what is Written) and this is important for DOING GOD’S WILL to ENTER HEAVEN as the NARROW and DIFFICULT WAY which ONLY FEW FIND in this CONTEXT for ETERNAL LIFE as CHRIST PROPHESIED below regarding simply converting based on ‘… Prophecy, Casting Out Demons, Miracles …’ as MANY did but will be DENIED if they had such “LAWLESSNESS” which in the CONTEXT of ETERNAL LIFE clearly includes or is PRIMARILY the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as Galatians 6:6 – 10 as the Original Inspired Authour of “Faith Alone” himself also Preached (so we Preach that ‘same type of Sola Fide ‘ Doctrine likewise):

 

“… 14Because NARROW is the gate and DIFFICULT is the way which leads to life, and there are FEW who FIND IT … 21“NOT EVERYONE who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall ENTER the kingdom of HEAVEN, but he who DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN. 22MANY will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I NEVER KNEW YOU; depart from Me, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS!’ 24“Therefore WHOEVER HEARS THESE SAYINGS OF MINE, and DOES THEM, I will liken him to a WISE MAN WHO BUILT HIS HOUSE ON THE ROCK: …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (Matthew 7:21 – 24, NKJV)

 

Last but not least, “no” Church Fathers erred on this #CharityDoctrine Context for “REAPING ETERNAL LIFE” as Galatians 6:6 – 10 Teaches as you can see in Pages 1176 to 1188 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook .

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

Charity Doctrine as the Fruit unto Eternal Life – Did Paul teach the same as Christ?

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161799442847784

 

Of course, it’s the same Gospel. Here are some repeated points and Verses which Prove this clearly as ït is Written“:

 

Grace works out the “Fruit” . That’s the part I am writing about which you ‘missed’. Not every faith saves as many are denied (Matthew 7:20 – 24) including those who “partook of His Holy Spirit” too due to not having fruits:

 

“… 4For it is IMPOSSIBLE for THOSE WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and HAVE BECOME PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, 5and HAVE TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD and the POWERS OF THE AGE TO COME, 6[c]IF THEY FALL AWAY, to RENEW THEM AGAIN TO REPENTANCE, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to BEING CURSED, WHOSE END IS TO BE BURNED. …” (Hebrews 6:4 – 8, NKJV)

 

The “Fruit” of the “Charity Doctrine” is Primary to Eternal Life Context as Apostle St. Paul taught (e.g. Galatians 6:2 – 10) below (quoted next) called the “Law of Christ” and also in 1 Timothy 6:17 – 19  which CHRIST HIMSELF Taught in “JUDGMENT DAY” Verses likewise in regards to what one did in response to When I was Hungry, Thirsty, Naked, Homeless, Sick, in Prison etc in Matthew 25:31 – 46 with “no” other religious act mentioned with it likewise proving either its primary importance or its only importance first.

 

Here are the Verses quoted here for comparison:

 

“… 2BEAR ONE ANOTHER’S BUDENS, and so FULFILL the LAW of CHRIST. 3For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4But let each one EXAMINE HIS OWN WORK, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5For each one shall bear his own load.6Let him who is taught the word SHARE IN ALL GOOD THINGS WITH HIM WHO TEACHES. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he WHO SOWS TO THE SPIRIT WILL OF THE SPIRIT REAP EVERLASTING LIFE. 9And let us NOT GROW WEARY while DOING GOOD, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us DO GOOD TO ALL, ESPECIALLY TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF FAITH. …” (Galatians 6:2 – 10, NKJV)

 

 

“… 17COMMAND THOSE WHO ARE RICH in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18Let THEM DO GOOD, that they be RICH IN GOOD WORKS, READY TO GIVE, WILLING TO SHARE, 19storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that THEY MAY LAY HOLD ON ETERNAL LIFE. …” (1 Timothy 6:17 – 19, NKJV)

 

 

“… 23His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ …  37“Then the RIGHTEOUS WILL ANSWER Him, saying, ‘Lord, When Did We See You Hungry And Feed YOU, or THIRSTY AND GIVE YOU DRINK? 38WHEN DID WE SEE YOU A STRANGER and TAKE YOU IN, OR NAKED AND CLOTHE YOU? 39Or WHEN DID WE SEE YOU SICK, OR in PRISON, AND COME TO YOU?40And THE KING WILL ANSWER and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I SAY TO YOU, INASMUCH AS YOU DID IT TO ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHREN, YOU DID IT TO ME. 41“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46And these will go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT, but the righteous into ETERNAL LIFE.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 25:23, 37 – 46, NKJV)

 

This is the #LawofChrist. Please be careful of #Lawlessness.

 

 

 

 

Example Discussion

 

Question 1

 

No no.. you must rightly divide the word of truth… let me tell you what

Matthew 7:22-23 really means.

These men that Jesus rejected did not really love Jesus.. they had God all inside their mouth but their hearts were really far from God. In spirit this is easy to see.. in The flesh it’s confusing and makes no sense.

These men were stealing The kingdom.

They were not coming into the kingdom through the Straight Gate but climbing up another way. John 10:1

Flesh can’t see it because of the fact they said they did it in Jesus name.

That saves no one.

Nothing you do in Jesus Name will save.

ITS OUR FAITH ONLY IN HIM!

Then.. that faith will grow into a very strong and deep love for Jesus Christ. People that have sinned very very little, never reach the depths of that love. Jesus himself said so. Luke 7:47.

 

Those scriptures you’re given about being enlightened and then going back into the world, is talking about those that got the baptism of the Holy Spirit like Peter and Paul and the other disciples in the upper room. That complete filling up is happening today and I know for a fact firsthand that is true because it happened to me. I saw Jesus Christ face-to-face. My heart got completely changed and I was able to understand now what I was reading in scripture up till then I was confused as could be

 

You’ll have to forgive me, I’m not using that filling up of Spirit to show off.. but to make a point. Me having the filling of the Holy Spirit does not make me better than others,

it only made me better than I was

 

 

 

 

Reply 1

 

The Verses in Matthew 7:20 – 24 speaks of “fruit” as the reason for rejection as Matthew 7:20 clearly reveals as “works” as Isaiah 3:10 – 11 reveals too.

 

Regarding supernatural encounters, I have mine as well but that doesn’t prove theology right. A simple example would be the first person claimed to have been filled the Holy Spirit which started the entire pentecostal movement which clearly shows some false doctrines among these two as follows:

 

1) Ms Agnes Ozman

 

I will let the “First” person in Modern Christianity to have claimed to “Speak in Tongues“, Ms. Agnes herself show how SHE CLAIMS THAT GOD CORRECTED HER of THIS WRONG THEOLOGY MUCH LATER IN LIFE which proves that ‘Speaking in Tongues Gift (even if true) DOES NOT PROVE any THEOLOGICAL ACCURACY either’ as the “Source” (‘First Person’) ever to Receive this gift as per these claims herself “CONFESSES in HER OWN WORDS BELOW:

 

“… Later in her life Agnes admitted that she had been wrong to believe that all people would speak in tongues when they were baptized with the Holy Spirit. Writing in The Latter Rain Evangel of January 1909 she wrote, “Some time ago I tried but failed to have an article printed which I wrote calling attention to what I am sure God showed me was error. The article maintained that tongues was not the only evidence of the Spirit’s Baptism. When that article was refused I was much tempted by Satan, but God again graciously showed me He had revealed it to me, and satisfied my heart in praying that He might reveal this truth to others who would spread it abroad. For awhile [sic] after the baptism I got into spiritual darkness, because I did as I see so many others are doing these days, rested and reveled in tongues and other demonstrations instead of resting alone in God.”[8]* …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_Ozman

 

*[8] “When The Latter Rain First Fell: The First One to Speak in Tongues“. In The Latter Rain Evangel, January 1909, p.2. Available online at pentecostalarchives.org

Mr. Charles Parham Testified that Ms. Agnes Spoke and Wrote Chinese upon the First Time Baptism of the Holy Spirit to get the “Gift of Speaking in Tongues” as per his claim in ‘his own words below’:

 

“… Sister Agnes N. Ozman, (now LaBerge) asked that hands might be laid upon her to receive the Holy Spirit as she hoped to go to foreign fields. At first I refused, not having the experience myself. Then being further pressed to do it humbly in the name of Jesus, I laid my hand upon her head and prayed. I had scarcely repeated three dozen sentences when a glory fell upon her, a halo seemed to surround her head and face, and she began speaking in the Chinese language, and was unable to speak English for three days. When she tried to write in English to tell us of her experience she wrote the Chinese, copies of which we still have in newspapers printed at that time. …” – Mr. Charles Parham, Founder of Pentecostalism and Gift of Speaking in Tongues in Modern Charismatic Christianity (“The Latter Rain”,  As Told By The Late Charles F. Parham, Re-printed in The Apostolic Faith – April 1951)

 

Source:

 

https://www.apostolicarchives.com/articles/article/8801925/173163.htm

 

2) Mr. Charles Parham’s possible theological errors may include his beliefs in following doctrines

 

  1. Annihilation for the Wicked (not Eternal Conscious Torment)
  2. British Israelism, an ideology maintaining that the Anglo-Saxon peoples were among the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel.

iii. He believed God took two days to create humans—non-whites on the sixth day and whites on the eighth

  1. Parham also supported Theodor Herzl and the struggle for a Jewish homeland, lecturing on the subject often.
  2. Parham’s belief that Spirit baptized (with the evidence of an unknown tongue) Christians would be taken in the rapture

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fox_Parham

Some scholarly quotes regarding Parham’s belief in these can be seen in example paper below: https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9780822376873-019/pdf

Reply 2

 

The Answer to “which lawlessness” Christ Rejects those Christians in Matthew 7:20 – 24 based on the “Fruit” which was missing (Matthew 7:20) refers to “HIS COMMANDS”(not spiritual gifts or anything else, as those are “öptional” according to 1 Corinthians 12:27 – 30 too) as His Own Words Reveal as follows:

 

“… 14Because NARROW is the gate and DIFFICULT is the way which LEADS TO LIFE, and there are FEW who FIND IT … 24“Therefore WHOEVER HEARS THESE SAYINGS OF MINE, and DOES THEM, I will liken him to a WISE MAN WHO BUILT HIS HOUSE ON THE ROCK: …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:14, 24, NKJV)

 

Can you see which part is NARROW and DIFFICULT which CHRIST MEANS that it POINTS ONLY to HIS COMMANDS in HIS OWN WORDS?

 

And “His Commands“‘ certainly includes the “Charity Doctrine” as most number in New Testament too as many scholars have noted and so we Preach it as an Ïmportant ”fruit” as even the quoted Verses clearly Testify as it is Written.

 

Question 3

 

You lease send me nothing.. I do not Learn from man.

All I know is because while I read the whole Bible I lived on my knees all alone.

Many can nit teach me.. only the Spirit.

I can give you many examples of getting it right when reading by Gods spirit only.

1st John 2:27

 

Reply 3

 

I am quoting people who have the Spirit of God, the Church Fathers too. Getting it right, is Obeying what is “Written”.

 

 

Question 4

 

Please take no offense to that. I beg you.. I am not trying to make myself look better. I’m trying to give you my testimony of getting that filling. And That spirit has shown me many things.

If you ask fir an example, then I will use a quote Jesus said, and tell you what Jesus was really saying. I do not lean into my own understanding. I’m given it by God..

as we all should do it that way.

Seek and ye shall find.

I did seek and I was shown many understandings That I can prove. In other words.. I trust only Gods Word and the spirit helps me understand the real truth of it.

 

 

Reply 4

 

Details (each Taught by CHRIST HIMSELF):

 

  1. #CharityDoctrineLifestyle proves one’s faithfulness whether one Serves God or Money with their own money/possessions (Luke 16:9 – 13)

 

“… 9Here’s the lesson: USE YOUR WORLDLY RESOURCES to BENEFIT OTHERS AND MAKE FRIENDS. Then, when your possessions are gone, they will welcome you to an ETERNAL HOME. 10“If you are faithful in little things, you will be faithful in large ones. But if you are dishonest in little things, you won’t be honest with greater responsibilities. 11And IF YOU ARE UNTRUSTWORTHY ABOUT WORLDLY WEALTH, who will trust you with the TRUE RICHES OF HEAVEN? 12And if you are not faithful with other people’s things, why should you be trusted with things of your own? “No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. YOU CANNOT SERVE GOD AND BE ENSLAVED TO MONEY.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:9 – 13, NLT)

 

 

 

 

  1. #CharityDoctrineLifestyle proves how much we “Seek the Kingdom of God” (Luke 12:31 – 35)

 

“… 31“But SEEK HIS KINGDOM, and THESE THINGS will be ADDED TO YOU. 32“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom. 33“SELL YOUR POSSESSIONS and GIVE TO CHARITY; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an UNFAILING TREASURE IN HEAVEN, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys. 34“For where your treasure is, there YOUR HEART WILL BE ALSO. 35“Be dressed in readiness, and KEEP YOUR LAMPS LIT. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:31 – 35, NASB)

 

  1. 3. #CharityDoctrineLifestyle proves how much we Seek to do God’s Will for “Justice” and “Love of God” which even “Tithes” does “not” fulfill (Luke 11:41 – 42)

 

“… 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. 42“But woe to you Pharisees! For YOU TITHE mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and PASS BY JUSTICE and the LOVE of GOD These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 11:41 – 42, NKJV)

 

  1. #CharityDoctrineLifestyle proves who really “follows Him” or “believes in Him” because “keeping Holy Commandments” can be done by someone “without Christ” even (Matthew 19:16 – 22)

 

“… 16Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[d] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17So He said to him, [e]“Why do you call Me good? [f]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” 20The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [g]from my youth. What do I still lack?” 21JESUS said to him, “IF you want to be PERFECT, go, SELL what YOU HAVE and GIVE to the POOR, and YOU WILL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN; and come, FOLLOW ME.” 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away SORROWFUL, for he had GREAT POSSESSIONS. …” (Matthew 19:16 – 22, NKJV)

 

 

Question 5

 

Remember: When we show love ( new covenant command)

Then.. we break no laws of Christ or God.

Sabbath is not mentioned

 

Reply 5

 

Sabbath is optional for Gentiles (I don’t keep it and neither did the fathers), Verse:

 

“… So let NO ONE JUDGE you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or SABBATHS, …” (Colossians 2:16, NKJV)

 

Here’s an example “Sabbath rejecting” quote by an ”Ápostolic Father” of the Church:

 

“… If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, NO LONGER OBSERVING THE SABBATH, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master …” – Blessed St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, nicknamed ‘God-Bearing’, An Apostolic Father being the direct Disciple of the Blessed Apostle St. John, Martyr for Christ (c. 35 AD – c. 108 AD, (Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

 

Source (more related Church Fathers’ quotes in link):

 

https://apostles-creed.org/confessional-reformed-christian-theology/ecclesiology/quotes-from-early-church-fathers-on-the-sabbath-and-the-lords-day/

 

 

 

But LOVE is a MUST COMMAND, and ”Ägape”(God’s Love) is Defined only as the “Charity Doctrine Lifestyle” of sharing ‘this World’s Goods (physical or spiritual goods)’in Verses below:

 

“… 16By this WE KNOW LOVE (Agape, God’s Love), because He laid down His life for us. And we also OUGHT TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR THE BRETHREN. 17But WHOEVER HAS THIS WORLD’S GOODS, and SEES HIS BROTHER IN NEED, AND SHUTS UP HIS HEART FROM HIM, HOW DOES THE LOVE OF GOD ABIDE IN HIM? 18My little children, let us NOT LOVE IN WORD or IN TONGUE, BUT IN DEED AND IN TRUTH …” (1 John 3:16 – 18, NKJV)

 

Question 6

 

true. James 1:27

Take good care of my widows and orphans.

Love others As I have loved you.

We are judged on those merits.. in fact, that is the only things the saints will be judged on.

THE HEARTS INTENTIONS.

Matthew 25:31-40

That’s the judgement Christ Said He will use to judge us all

Jesus told us how HE will judge us all. The intentions of our heart is judged.

Matthew25: 31-40

 

Reply 6

 

Yes, Let God do the “Judging of the Heart”. He did ‘not’ ask us to do that part.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion

 

Those who do “not” know this Charity Doctrine Lifestyle do “not” know God as God Himself scolds a King of Judah likewise in Verses below:

 

“… 15“Do you become a king because you are competing in cedar? Did your father not eat and drink And DO JUSTICE AND RIGHTEOUSNESS? Then it was well for him. 16“HE PLED THE CAUSE OF THE AFFLICTED and THE POOR, then it was well. IS THAT NOT WHAT IT MEANS TO KNOW ME?” DECLARES THE LORD. 17“But your eyes and your heart Are intent only upon your own dishonest gain, And on shedding innocent blood, And on practicing oppression and extortion.” … And YOU WILL SEEK ME AND FIND ME when YOU SEARCH FOR ME WITH ALL YOUR HEART. …” (Jeremiah 22:15 – 17, 29:13, NASB)

 

Thought to ponder: What is there to “pity” regarding people who do “not” have the Charity Doctrine mindset and instead have ‘prosperity mindset’ where they didn’t pity their fellow men or did not care that much but here and there only? Verses:

 

“… 13For JUDGMENT IS WITHOUT MERCY to the ONE WHO HAS SHOWN NO MERCY. MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT. 14What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? CAN FAITH SAVE HIM? 15If a BROTHER OR SISTER IS NAKED AND DESTITUTE OF DAILY FOOD, 16and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do NOT GIVE THEM THE THINGS WHICH ARE NEEDED FOR THE BODY, WHAT DOES IT PROFIT? 17Thus also faith by itself, if it does NOT HAVE WORKS, IS DEAD. …” (James 2:13 – 17, NKJV)

 

Comment:

 

Did you notice that MERCY ends JUDGMENT in Verses above is in the Context of Mercy referring to “Mercy which one has shown in life prior first based on the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE LIVED ONLY FIRST“?

 

 

 

 

Also, if you think you have ‘done much of Charity Doctrine’ here are some questions which the ‘Bible’ leads us to ponder:

 

  1. If we think that ‘we have done much Charity’, please remember ‘Relative Measure’ as the Bible Verses below proves that ‘God Counts’ and that ‘Reveals our heart too’:

 

 

  1. i) Poor Christian Example regarding the Charity Doctrine

 

“… [1And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, 2and He saw also a CERTAIN POOR WIDOW putting in two mites.][a] 3So He said, “TRULY I say to you that this POOR widow has put in MORE THAN ALL; 4for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings [b]for God, but she OUT OF HER POVERTY PUT IN ALL THE LIVELIHOOD THAT SHE HAD.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 21:1 – 4, NKJV)

 

 

  1. ii) Rich Christian Example regarding the Charity Doctrine in the Context of ‘Salvation’

 

“… 5And when Jesus came to the place, He looked up [a]and saw him, and said to him, “Zacchaeus, [b]make haste and come down, for today I must stay at your house.” 6So he [c]made haste and came down, and received Him joyfully. 7But when they saw it, they all [d]complained, saying, “He has gone to be a guest WITH A MAN WHO IS A SINNER.” 8Then Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, “LOOK, LORD, I GIVE HALF OF MY GOODS TO THE POOR; AND IF I HAVE TAKEN ANYTHING FROM ANYONE BY FALSE ACCUSATION, I RESTORE FOURFOLD.” 9And JESUS SAID TO HIM, “TODAY SALVATION HAS COME TO THIS HOUSE, because he also is a son of Abraham; 10for THE SON OF MAN has come TO SEEK AND TO SAVE THAT WHICH WAS LOST.” …” (Luke 19:5 – 10, NKJV)

 

Note: I repeat, regarding the ‘heart’, Let God Alone Judge as none of us can read hearts.

 

 

 

 

  1. Did we do it with ”öther people’s money’ only” or did we include ”our own money too”? Who asks? CHRIST ASKS below:

 

“… 39Then the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees make the OUTSIDE OF THE CUP and DISH CLEAN, but YOUR INWARD PART is full of [k]GREED and WICKEDNESS. 40FOOLISH ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also? 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. 42“But woe to you Pharisees! For YOU TITHE mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and PASS BY JUSTICE and the LOVE of GOD These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE. 43Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the [m]best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. 44Woe to you, [n]scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like graves which are not seen, and the men who walk over them are not aware of them.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 11:39 – 45, NKJV)

 

The Phrase “…. These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE.  …” is inclusive of the ONLY RELIGIOUS ACT CHRIST MENTIONS HERE (Context as ‘it is Written) referring to “… 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. …” which is the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE which is a MUST for any TRUE CHRISTIAN (according to ‘Relative Measure‘, implied) as CHRIST DIDN’T SAY it is an “option” but a “requirement” as His Phrase here is:

 

“… These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE.  …”

 

and from “WHAT YOU HAVE” (meaning NOT money collected in the Name of God only and Neither are the Priests/Pastors exempt from it as the ‘Pharisees were such’).

 

In short,  ‘believing in Christ’ and ‘continuing living like that’ wouldn’t HAVE SAVED the PHARISEES either as “True believing in Christ would do these ALMSGIVING or CHARITY DOCTRINE as CHRIST WARNS here as the LOVE OF GOD and JUSTICE He Refers to” instead of “Prosperity” (Self-Indulgence) as these Pharisees did.

 

If all these New Testament Verses (many Directly by Christ) did “not” matter, He Wouldn’t have Spoken All these, right?

 

Christ is clearly Warning against the “White-washed Tombs Doctrine of Holiness without the Charity Doctrine type”. Can you see it as ”it is Written’ Please?

Do you really think “His Words will pass away” and a ‘new way’ is open to any of us?

 

“… Heaven and earth will pass away, but MY WORDS WILL BY NO MEANS PASS AWAY. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (Matthew 24:35, NKJV)

 

[Image is from Page 1250 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

The Bible instructs “Good WorksDoctrine to Preached ALWAYS and NOT once in a while

 

 

 

Real Spiritual Warfare is all about Theological Arguments

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161797506387784

 

Bible Verses:

 

“… 1Now I, Paul, myself am pleading with you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ—who in presence am lowly among you, but being absent am bold toward you. 2But I beg you that when I am present I may not be bold with that confidence by which I intend to be bold against some, who think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. 3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4For the WEAPONS of OUR WARFARE ARE NOT [a]CARNAL but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5CASTING DOWN ARGUMENTS and every high thing that exalts itself against the KNOWLEDGE of GOD, bringing EVERY THOUGHT into captivity to the OBEDIENCE OF CHRIST, 6and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled. …” (2 Corinthians 10:1 – 6, NKJV)

 

Another Verse:

 

“… For WE DO NOT WRESTLE AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness IN THE HEAVENLY PLACES. …” (Ephesians 6:12, NKJV)

 

In short, the Bible clearly Teaches that for this NEW TESTAMENT, instead of wasting time (and risking your soul) to committing EARTHLY WARS (be it literally killing other families to protect your way of life to protect your family) or FINANCIAL WARS (playing RACISM Business Games to “make your family or race rich” while using the “poor” to your advantage in any way) or even any other “wars“, we should focus on FULFILLING GOD’S COMMANDS especially these #CharityDoctrineLifestyle Commands as we have seen in Galatians 6:6 – 10 itself for REAPING of ETERNAL LIFE CONTEXT by ‘debating such arguments even’ WITH NO STRUGGLE WHATSOEVER with ANY FLESH and BLOOD (i.e. NO FIGHTING with OTHER HUMANS but rather Practice the #CharityDoctrine toward them in any way as the #LawOfChrist Demands this by ‘Relative Measure’) as the TRUE SPIRITUAL WARFARE for “Eternal Life Context” set forth in these Verses. Can you see it?

 

Lord Jesus Christ Himself was always Speaking Doctrine and Debating the Religious of his time (the “Pharisees“)  regarding which Doctrine is right and we ought to “Follow Christ” in this aspect too (Let God Decide who Taught more rightly and have Mercy on our Doctrinal errors).

 

 

Peace to you

 

Holiness to Charity Doctrine and its relation to Salvation and Rewards

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161784796562784

 

Question

 

All believers become saints and righteous through BLOOD OF JESUS not institutional declaration nor their own good works. Only Christ the mediator between God and men but the Christianity has created layers of Pope, bishop, pastors and so on! The faith system requires only elders and deacons

 

Reply

 

In the Context of Salvation yes but in the Context of Heavenly ranking and reward, your statement is incorrect.

 

  1. Fasting and Prayer without the Charity Doctrine is rejected according to God Himself

 

  1. Similarly, Worship and Attending Church (Gathering) is also rejected if without the Charity Doctrine is rejected according to God Himself

 

  1. Holiness also has little or no value likewise according to the #CharityDoctrine Lived

 

  1. Please remember, that even FOR 70 YEARS Israel PRAYED and FASTED but WERE WRONG God ONLY REVEALED THIS CHARITY DOCTRINE ASPECT AFTER THAT

 

  1. There is a difference between “Knowing God” and “knowing about God” and it is DIRECTLY linked to the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE lived

 

  1. Charity Doctrine Fulfills All Law

 

  1. There is “no” fulfilling of the Greatest Commandment without the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle

 

  1. Church Fathers all Taught likewise [including Martin Luther the First Protestant and John Wesley Founder of Methodism]

 

We will look at each claim above with “Bible Verses” at the end.

 

Let’ begin.

 

1) Some saved ‘saints’ are only SAVED by FIRE with NO REWARDS based ON YOUR GOOD WORKS vs BAD WORKS (“Works” clearly Written here)

 

“… 13each ONE’S WORK will become clear; FOR THE DAY WILL DECLARE IT, BECAUSE IT WILL BE REVEALED BY FIRE; and THE FIRE WILL TEST EACH ONE’S WORK, of what sort it is. 14If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, HE WILL RECEIVE A REWARD. 15If anyone’s WORK IS BURNED, HE WILL SUFFER LOSS; but HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, YET SO AS THROUGH FIRE. …” (1 Corinthians 3:13 – 15, NKJV)

 

“… For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. …”  (2 Corinthians 5:10, NKJV)

 

 

2) Some ‘Saints’ are GREATER as they GET GOLD, SILVER and PRECIOUS STONES type of REWARD based on THEIR WORKS (Good Works vs Bad Works)

 

“… But LET EACH ONE TAKE HEED HOW HE BUILDS ON IT.  11For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if anyone builds on this foundation with GOLD, SILVER, PRECIOUS STONES, wood, hay, straw, 13each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, HE WILL RECEIVE A REWARD. 15If anyone’s WORK IS BURNED, HE WILL SUFFER LOSS; but HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, YET SO AS THROUGH FIRE.” …” (1 Corinthians 3:5 – 15, NKJV)

 

Please notice that this is how the Original ‘Faith Alone Preacher Blessed Apostle St. Paul’ Taught the meaning of “Salvation” (being Saved“) and its relation of REWARDS (Salvation Level) in His Kingdom. The “Reward” meant allegorically here is “Inheritance of His Kingdom” (Inheritance of Heaven etc.), Verses:

 

“… 22Bondservants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in sincerity of heart, fearing God. 23And WHATEVER YOU DO, DO IT HEARTILY, AS TO THE LORD AND NOT TO MEN, 24knowing that FROM THE LORD YOU WILL RECEIVE THE REWARD OF THE INHERITANCE; for[a] YOU SERVE THE LORD CHRIST. 25But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is NO PARTIALITY. …” (Colossians 3:22 – 25, NKJV)

 

Note: Yes, “Whatever you do” = “any act” which “benefits others” or of “holiness” can merit a reward of inheritance in His Kingdom and “not” just Church activities even if you work as a “servant” as these Verses Reveal Clearly above in Context.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion

 

When we don’t Teach the Concept of Biblical Rewards (Salvation Level), i.e. ‘least vs great in the Kingdom of Heaven’ even (Please see next Verses) we make people ‘small’ in His Kingdom and hence risk becoming “least” likewise for ‘failure’ to teachTHESE COMMANDS” for the KINGDOM:

 

“… 19Whoever therefore BREAKS one of the LEAST of THESE COMMANDMENTS, and TEACHES men so, shall be called LEAST in the kingdom of HEAVEN; but whoever DOES AND TEACHES them, he shall be called GREAT in the kingdom of HEAVEN. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:19, NKJV)

 

#CharityDoctrine is at the “heart” of this Context in 1 Corinthians 3’s Reward or Salvation Level too as Apostle St. Paul did “not” Write of any other religious act in 1 Corinthians 3 (if you find one, please show me which Verse):

 

“… 8Now HE WHO PLANTS AND HE WHO WATERS ARE ONE, and EACH ONE WILL RECEIVE HIS OWN REWARD ACCORDING TO HIS OWN LABOR. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; YOU ARE GOD’s FIELD, YOU ARE GOD’s BUILDING. 10According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But LET EACH ONE TAKE HEED HOW HE BUILDS ON IT.  …” (1 Corinthians 3:8 – 10, NKJV)

 

Christ  Himself clearly confirmed and also ONLY MENTIONED the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle when He Taught this “Inheritance or Kingdom of HeavenContext likewise allegorically as “… Unfailing Treasure in Heaven …” revealing “our HEART” too, Verses:

 

“…  31“But SEEK HIS KINGDOM, and THESE THINGS will be ADDED TO YOU. 32“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom. 33“SELL YOUR POSSESSIONS and GIVE TO CHARITY; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an UNFAILING TREASURE IN HEAVEN, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys. 34“For WHERE YOUR TREASURE IS, THERE YOUR HEART WILL BE ALSO. 35“Be dressed in readiness, and KEEP YOUR LAMPS LIT. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:31 – 35, NASB)

 

  1. Fasting and Prayer without the Charity Doctrine is rejected according to God Himself:

 

“… ‘Why have WE FASTED,’ they say, ‘and YOU HAVE NOT SEEN? Why have WE AFFLICTED OUR SOULS, and YOU TAKE NO NOTICE?’ …” (Isaiah 58:3, NKJV)

 

Part of the Answer (God’s Reply):

 

“… 7Is it not to SHARE YOUR BREAD with the HUNGRY,

And that you bring to your house THE POOR who are cast out;

When you see THE NAKED, that you cover him,

And not hide yourself from YOUR OWN FLESH?

8Then YOUR LIGHT shall break forth like the MORNING,

YOUR HEALING shall spring forth speedily,

And your righteousness shall go before you;

The glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.

9Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer;

You shall cry, and He will say, ‘Here I am.’ …” (Isaiah 58:7 – 9, NKJV)

 

  1. Similarly, Worship and Attending Church (Gathering) is also rejected if without the Charity Doctrine is rejected according to God Himself:

 

“… 21“I HATE, I despise your feast days, And I do NOT SAVOR your SACRED ASSEMBLIES.

22Though you offer Me burnt offerings and your grain offerings, I will NOT ACCEPT them, NOR will I regard your fattened peace offerings. 23TAKE AWAY from Me the NOISE of YOUR SONGS, For I will NOT HEAR the MELODY of your STRINGED INSTRUMENTS. 24But let JUSTICE run down like water, And RIGHTEOUSNESS like a mighty stream. …” (Amos 5:21 – 24, NKJV)

 

Why?

 

“… 10They HATE the one who REBUKES in the gate,

And they ABHOR the one who SPEAKS UPRIGHTLY.

11Therefore, BECAUSE YOU TREAD DOWN THE POOR

And take grain taxes from him,

Though you have built houses of hewn stone,

Yet you shall not dwell in them;

You have planted pleasant vineyards,

But you shall not drink wine from them.

12For I know YOUR MANIFOLD TRANSGRESSIONS

And YOUR MIGHTY SINS:

AFFLICTING THE JUST and TAKING BRIBES;

DIVERTING THE POOR FROM JUSTICE at the gate. …” (Amos 5:10 – 12, NKJV)

 

  1. Holiness also has little or no value likewise according to the #CharityDoctrine Lived as Taught by Christ Himself in Verses below where ‘HOLINESS WITHOUT the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle is called as WHITEWASHEDTOMBS by CHRIST here’:

 

“… 23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For YOU PAY TITHE of mint and anise and cummin, and have NEGLECTED THE WEIGHTIER MATTERS of the LAW: JUSTICE AND MERCY and FAITH. These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE. 24BLIND GUIDES, who STRAIN OUT A GNAT AND SWALLOW A CAMEL! 25“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you CLEANSE THE OUTSIDE OF THE CUP and dish, but INSIDE THEY ARE FULL OF EXTORTION and [l]SELF-INDULGENCE. 26Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like WHITEWASHED TOMBS which indeed appear BEAUTIFUL OUTWARDLY, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28Even so you also OUTWARDLY APPEAR RIGHTEOUS TO MEN, but INSIDE YOU ARE FULL OF HYPOCRISY AND LAWLESSNESS. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 23:23 – 28, NKJV)

 

 

“… 39Then the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees make the OUTSIDE OF THE CUP and DISH CLEAN, but YOUR INWARD PART is full of [k]GREED and WICKEDNESS. 40FOOLISH ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also? 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. 42“But woe to you Pharisees! For YOU TITHE mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by JUSTICE and the LOVE of GOD These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 43Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the [m]best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. 44Woe to you, [n]scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like graves which are not seen, and the men who walk over them are not aware of them.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 11:39 – 45, NKJV)

Note: The ONLY Religious Act Mentioned as a “Cure” for all this in Verses above BY CHRIST HIMSELF is the CHARITY DOCTRINE as per these Phrases “… 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. …” (Luke 11:41, NKJV) where ‘ALMS = CHARITY = Giving and Sharing things for FREE to those in need according to our capacity (i.e. by relative Measure, e.g. Luke 12:46 – 48, Luke 21:1 – 3)’.

 

  1. Please remember, that even FOR 70 YEARS Israel PRAYED and FASTED but WERE WRONG God ONLY REVEALED THIS CHARITY DOCTRINE ASPECT AFTER THAT (letting them to be WRONG for such a LONG TIME with regards to this CHARITY DOCTRINE CONTEXT), Verses:

 

“…  ‘WHEN YOU FASTED AND MOURNED in the fifth and seventh months DURING THOSE SEVENTY YEARS, DID YOU REALLY FAST FOR ME—FOR ME?  …” (Zechariah 7:5, NKJV)

 

Please notice carefully that God Only Asked about this AFTER SEVENTY YEARS they have practicing such “religious observation faithfully” and NEVER CORRECTED THEM EARLIER ALLOWING THEM TO BE IN ERROR FOR SUCH A LONG TIME.

 

The CHARITY DOCTRINE CORRECTION aspect so that THEIR FASTING AND PRAYERS are ACCEPTED is SEEN WHEN THESE VERSES are quoted in “full” as follows:

 

“… 4Then THE WORD OF THE LORD of hosts came to me, saying, 5“Say to ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE LAND, and TO THE PRIESTS: ‘WHEN YOU FASTED AND MOURNED in the fifth and seventh months DURING THOSE SEVENTY YEARS, DID YOU REALLY FAST FOR ME—FOR ME? 6When YOU EAT AND WHEN YOU DRINK, DO YOU NOT EAT AND DRINK FOR YOURSELVES? 7Should you not have OBEYED THE WORDS WHICH THE LORD proclaimed through the FORMER PROPHETS when Jerusalem and the cities around it were inhabited and prosperous, and the [f]South and the Lowland were inhabited?’ ”

8Then THE WORD OF THE LORD CAME TO ZECHARIAH, saying, 9“Thus says the Lord of hosts: ‘EXECUTE TRUE JUSTICE, Show [g]MERCY AND COMPASSION Everyone to his brother.  10Do not OPPRESS THE WIDOW OR THE FATHERLESS, The ALIEN OR THE POOR.

Let none of you plan evil in his heart Against his brother.’ 11“But they refused to heed, shrugged[h] their shoulders, and stopped[i] their ears so that they could not hear. 12Yes, they made their hearts like flint, REFUSING TO HEAR THE LAW and THE WORDS WHICH THE LORD OF HOSTS had sent by HIS SPIRIT THROUGH THE FORMER PROPHETS. Thus GREAT WRATH came from the Lord of hosts.  …” (Zechariah 7:4 – 12, NKJV)

Comment: OPRESSING the POOR or WIDOW or FATHERLESS is “not” just when one does direct harm but also WHEN ONE DOES NOT GIVE GOD’s MONEY or CHURCH MONEY to them as CHRIST HAS WARNED LIKEWISE in Luke 11:39 – 42 as I have discussed at the end of this Book in detail too.

 

  1. There is a difference between “Knowing God” and “knowing about God” and it is DIRECTLY linked to the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE lived

 

Yes, Last but not least it is GOD HIMSELF WHO Teaches that the ONLY RELIGIOUS ACT mentioned to KNOW HIM (is not prayer, fasting, Church attendance, worship etc.) UNLESS it is WITH THIS #CHARITYDOCTRINELIFESTYLE, Verses:

 

Those who do “not” know this Charity Doctrine Lifestyle do “not” know God as God Himself scolds a King of Judah likewise in Verses below:

 

“… 15“Do you become a king because you are competing in cedar? Did your father not eat and drink And DO JUSTICE AND RIGHTEOUSNESS? Then it was well for him. 16“HE PLED THE CAUSE OF THE AFFLICTED and THE POOR, then it was well. IS THAT NOT WHAT IT MEANS TO KNOW ME?” DECLARES THE LORD. 17“But your eyes and your heart Are intent only upon your own dishonest gain, And on shedding innocent blood, And on practicing oppression and extortion.” … And YOU WILL SEEK ME AND FIND ME when YOU SEARCH FOR ME WITH ALL YOUR HEART. …” (Jeremiah 22:15 – 17, 29:13, NASB)

 

Please notice that the above was SPOKEN by GOD HIMSELF through Prophet Jeremiah in the Context of “KNOWING GOD“.

 

If there was a ‘better way’ of ‘Knowing God’, God Would have Said it but He did NOT.

 

Even Judgment Day (in Matthew 25:31 – 46) agrees that HIS SHEEP KNOW HIM by the “Common Ground” of CHARITY DOCTRINE only mentioned likewise in regards to what one did ‘… when I was Hungry, Thirsty, Naked, Homeless, Sick, in Prison …’ etc.

 

Can you see it as it is Written please?

 

In comparison please be careful of #Lawlessness (which includes doing against all these Verses especially those directly by CHRIST or GOD here even) where those REJECTED CHRISTIANS ‘thought they knew Him quoting Miracles, Prophecy and Casting out of Demons’ in Matthew 7:20 – 24.

 

Can you see it?

 

  1. i) Problem

 

“… 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does NOT BEAR GOOD FRUIT IS CUT DOWN and THROWN INTO THE FIRE. 20Therefore BY THEIR FRUITS you will know them. 21“NOT EVERYONE who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22MANY will say to Me IN THAT DAY, ‘Lord, Lord, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN YOUR NAME, CAST OUT DEMONS IN YOUR NAME, and DONE MANY WONDERS IN YOUR NAME?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I NEVER KNEW YOU; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS!’ 24“Therefore whoever HEARS THESE SAYINGS OF MINE, and DOES THEM, I will liken him to a WISE MAN WHO BUILT HIS HOUSE ON THE ROCK: …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:18 – 24, NKJV)

 

  1. ii) Solution

 

“no” easy faith exists as Christ already Warned because His Commands are difficult (same Context as He Spoke both Matthew 7:14 and Matthew 7:24 in this same conversation):

 

“… 14Because NARROW is the gate and DIFFICULT is the way which leads to life, and there are FEW who FIND IT … 24“Therefore WHOEVER HEARS THESE SAYINGS OF MINE, and DOES THEM, I will liken him to a WISE MAN WHO BUILT HIS HOUSE ON THE ROCK: …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (Matthew 7:14, 24, NKJV)

 

Can you see which part is NARROW and DIFFICULT which CHRIST MEANTS that it POINTS ONLY to HIS COMMANDS in HIS OWN WORDS?

 

  1. Charity Doctrine Fulfills All Law

 

How?

 

As demonstrated in points above with BIBLE VERSES and GOD SPEAKING (not mere human opinions) whether it be Fasting and Prayer or Church Assembly or Worship or even Holiness, if WITHOUT the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE, GOD DOES NOT VALUE IT.

 

Relative Measure: I mean, God Values our “Fasting and Prayer or Church Assembly or Worship or even Holiness,” according to the LEVEL OF CHARITY DOCTRINE LIVED as all these Quoted Verses mean.

 

“… 25And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?” 26He said to him, “What is WRITTEN IN THE LAW? What is YOUR READING OF IT?” 27So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ ” 28And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.” 29But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And WHO IS MY NEIGHBOR?” 30Then JESUS ANSWERED and said: “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 31Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side. 33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had COMPASSION. 34So he went to him and BANDAGED HIS WOUNDS, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and TOOK CARE OF HIM. 35On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, ‘TAKE CARE OF HIM; and WHATEVER MORE YOU SPEND, when I come again, I WILL REPAY YOU.’ 36So which of these three do you think was NEIGHBOR to him who fell among the thieves? 37And he said, “He who SHOWED MERCY on him.” Then JESUS SAID to him, “GO AND DO LIKEWISE.”…” (Luke 10:25 – 37, NKJV)

 

Note: Also, CHRIST Said that the “Good Samaritan” got “Eternal Life” as opposed to the “Priest/Levite” (who knew Theology better) in His Parable of the Good Samaritan for missing the Charity Doctrine as God’s Will (Luke 10:25 – 37) as Samaritans depict those with imperfect Theology too by CHRIST too (in John 4:22 – 23).

 

Luke 10:25 – 37’s Charity Doctrine Command is by CHRIST detailing HOW HE WANTS us TO FULFILL the “… Love your neighbour as yourself …” part for ETERNAL LIFE which in Matthew 19:16 – 30 He didn’t detail out (since no one ask for the details there – Can you see it?).

 

As to whether the “… Love your neighbour 2nd Greatest Command of God …” can be fulfilled WITHOUT the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle, let’s recall your words of wisdom which is ‘… Who are we to research him …’ because THAT FULFILLING IT IN ANOTHER WAY PART IS NOT WRITTEN in ANY OF CHRIST’S WORDS WHEN HE QUOTED THIS VERSE and so ‘let’s not research His Reply’. Can you see it?

 

#CharityDoctrine is “Love (Agape, God’s Love) in Action” as 1 John 3:16 – 18 Reveals.

 

 

 

Let’s just DO THE DEFINITION which HE GAVE already for the “… Love your neighbour 2nd Greatest Command of God …” in Luke 10:25 – 37 as the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle in the “Parable of the Good Samaritannot just toward those of the same race/ same religion / same denomination/ same family only as the “Samaritan” did it toward the “Jew” (who are culturally and religious-wise or denomination-wise enemies) in ‘His Own Description as it is Written’. Can you see it please as it is Written?

 

So it makes sense now Scripturally why it is Written that this Charity Doctrine is equal to FULFILLING ALL LAW (because without it, Fasting and Prayer or Church Assembly or Worship or even Holiness has little to no value as THESE BIBLE VERSES Quoted (not my opinion) Teaches clearly as it is Written):

 

“… For the WHOLE LAW is FULFILLED in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”…” (Galatians 5:14, NASB)

 

If your Church is doing it, Great! Please remember Relative Measure because God Counts (e.g. Luke 21:1 – 3, Luke 12:46 – 48) and CONDEMNS too based on this aspect of lifestyle as the only literal  description of Hell in Scripture in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus Revealed likewise (Luke 16:19 – 31).

 

  1. The Greatest Commandment

There is “no” fulfilling of the Greatest Commandment without the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle

 

“… 29JESUS answered him, “The [k]first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [l]This is the first commandment. 31And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is NO OTHER COMMANDMENT GREATER THAN THESE.” …” (Mark 12:29 – 31, NKJV)

 

Please notice carefully that when Teaching the Greatest Command Christ does NOT Teach it alone but couples it with the Love your neighbour 2nd Greatest Command.

 

Why? Because the second is the proof of the first as many Biblical scholars also have attested likewise.

 

If the first can be fulfilled independently or with another religious command such as praying or worship Christ would have revealed so but HE DID NOT and instead of these CHRIST ONLY COUPLED it with the LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR COMMAND which in CHRIST’S OWN DEFINITION is the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle only in Luke 10:25 – 37’s Parable of the Good Samaritan.

 

  1. Church Fathers all Taught likewise [including Martin Luther the First Protestant and John Wesley Founder of Methodism]

 

Example Quotes:

 

“… I know many who fast, pray, sigh, and demonstrate every manner of piety, so long as it costs them nothing, yet would not part with a penny to help those in distress. … When I go into the house of one of these tasteless newly rich individuals, and see it bedecked with every imaginable hue, I know that this person possesses nothing more valuable than what is on display; such people decorate inanimate objects, but fail to beautify the soul.Care for the needy requires the expenditure of wealth: when all share alike, disbursing their possessions among themselves, they each receive a small portion for their individual needs. Thus, those who love their neighbor as themselves possess nothing more than their neighbor; yet surely, you seem to have great possessions! How else can this be, but that you have preferred your own enjoyment to the consolation of the many? For the more you abound in wealth, the more you lack in love. … For if we all took only what was necessary to satisfy our own needs, giving the rest to those who lack, no one would be rich, no one would be poor, and no one would be in need. … After they have squandered their wealth among so many pursuits, if there is any left over, they hide it in the ground and guard it deep within the earth. “For the future,” they say, “is always uncertain; therefore let us take care, lest some unforeseen need should arise.” Yet while it is uncertain whether you will have need of this buried gold, the losses you incur from your inhuman behavior are not at all uncertain … Had you clothed the naked, had you given your bread to the hungry, had your door been open to every stranger, had you been a parent to the orphan, had you made the suffering of every helpless person your own, what money would you have left, the loss of which to grieve? … What then will you answer the Judge? You gorgeously array your walls, but do not clothe your fellow human being; you adorn horses, but turn away from the shameful plight of your brother or sister; you allow grain to rot in your barns, but do not feed those who are starving; you hide gold in the earth, but ignore the oppressed! … You showed no mercy; it will not be shown to you. You opened not your house; you will be expelled from the Kingdom. You gave not your bread; you will not receive eternal life. …”  – Blessed St. Basil the Great, was the bishop of Caesarea Mazaca in Cappadocia, Asia Minor (modern-day Turkey). He was an influential theologian who supported the Nicene Creed and opposed the heresies of the early Christian church, fighting against both Arianism and the followers of Apollinaris of Laodicea. In addition to his work as a theologian, Basil was known for his care of the poor and underprivileged. Basil established guidelines for monastic life which focus on community life, liturgical prayer, and manual labor. Together with Pachomius, he is remembered as a father of communal monasticism in Eastern Christianity, Titles: one of the Three Holy Hierarchs / Great Hierarch, Doctor of the Church, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord (c. 329 AD – c. 379 AD)

 

Source:

https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/7393703-on-social-justice-st-basil-the-great

 

Based on the Matthew 25’s Parable of The Sheep and the Goats, the early Church saw the love of the poor (periptochias) as the crown jewel of the virtues. Cappadocian father St. Gregory of Nazianzus wrote that [After considering many of the Christian virtues, he concludes that]:

 

“… It is not at all an easy task to discover the one virtue that surpasses all others and to give it the scepter and palm, just as it is not easy in a meadow fragrant with many blossoms to find the most fragrant and beautiful. FOLLOWING PAUL AND CHRIST HIMSELF, we must regard CHARITY as the FIRST and GREATEST of the COMMANDMENTS since it is the VERY SUM of the LAW and PROPHETS, [and] ITS MOST VITAL PART I FIND IS THE LOVE OF THE POOR …” – Blessed St. Gregory Nazianzus, also known as Gregory the Theologian or Gregory Nazianzen, Archbishop of Constantinople, Theologian, Doctor of the Church, Great Hierarch, Cappadocian Father, Ecumenical Teacher, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord (c. 329 AD – c. 390 AD)

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charity_(Christian_virtue)

or

https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt32b306

 

“… But I wonder that some are so obstinate as to think that repentance is not to be granted to the lapsed, or to suppose that pardon is to be denied to the penitent, when it is written, “REMEMBER WHENCE YOU ARE FALLEN, REPENT, and DO THE FIRST WORKS,” (Rev. 2:5) which certainly is said to him who evidently has fallen, and whom the Lord exhorts to rise up again by his works, because it is written, “ALMS DO DELIVER FROM DEATH,” and not, assuredly, from that death which once the blood of Christ extinguished, and from which the saving grace of baptism and of our Redeemer has delivered us, but from that which subsequently creeps in through sins. …” – Blessed St. Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage, a pre-eminent Latin writer of Western Christianity until Jerome and Augustine, Martyr for Christ, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord  (c. 200 AD – c. 258 AD,  [Cyprian of Carthage, Ep. 51.22 ANF v.5])

 

Source (Section Commentary on this Tobit/Tobias Verse [4:10 Because that alms do deliver from death, and suffer not to come into darkness. 11 For alms is a good gift unto all that give it in the sight of the most High.]):

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/tobit/early-church-fathers-bible-commentary-on-tobit

 

Please notice that each of the “Church Fathers” quoted here are listed among the “First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord “, to quote:

 

“… The Lutheran Church did not start in the 1500s, but is the continuation of the one catholic (universal) Church, including everyone who taught and believed the one catholic faith. In The Book of Concord, the Early Church fathers are referenced and quoted in every confessional document (except the Small Catechism). Here are all the ones mentioned: … Justin Martyr, IRENAEUS, and TERTULLIAN from the second century. ORIGEN, Cyprian, Anthony of Egypt, ATHANASIUS, Basil of Caesarea, Gregory of Nazianzus, Gregory of Nyssa, John Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexandria, HILARY OF POITIERS, Jerome, Ambrose, Augustine, and Leo I covered the third, fourth, and fifth centuries .Gregory I, Bede, and John of Damascus from the sixth, seventh, and eighth centuries. These men taught and wrote throughout  . … The Christian faith did not originate with us. The Christian faith is handed on from one generation of saints to the next, as each generation holds to Scripture. There is so much we can learn from the faithful teachers of the ancient Church, for we are all part of the same catholic Church. They should not be strangers to us. If we are truly Lutheran, then they are truly our fathers. …”

Source:   https://lutheranreformation.org/history/lutherans-early-church-fathers/

 

“… Let no one therefore, dearly beloved, flatter himself on any merits of a good life, if works of charity be wanting in him, and let him not trust in the purity of his body, if he be not cleansed by the purification of almsgiving. For “almsgiving wipes out sin,” kills death, and extinguishes the punishment of perpetual fire. (Tobit) …” – Blessed St. Leo I the Great,  also known as Pope Leo I, Bishop of Rome, Pope Benedict XVI said that Leo’s papacy “was undoubtedly one of the most important in the Church’s history, Doctor of the Church,  a Roman aristocrat, and was the first pope to have been called “the Great”., Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord (c. 400 – 461 AD)

 

Source (Sermon 10, On the Collections, V. Chapter IV. And its efficacy, as Scripture proves, is incalculable):

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/360310.htm

 

Here’s a Church Father who was a ‘Direct Disciple of the Apostles Type’ who requested that we STANDFAST in this UNCHANGEABLE FAITH (where he specifically highlights this #CharityDoctrine part – can you see it below?):

 

“… STAND FAST, therefore, in these things, and FOLLOW THE EXAMPLE OF THE LORD, being firm and UNCHANGEABLE IN THE FAITH, loving the brotherhood, and being attached to one another, joined together in the truth, exhibiting the meekness of the Lord in your intercourse with one another, and despising no one. When YOU CAN DO GOOD, DEFER IT NOT, because “ALMS DELIVERS FROM DEATH.” [Tobit 12:9]” Be all of you subject one to another? having your conduct blameless among the Gentiles,” that YE MAY BOTH RECEIVE PRAISE FOR YOUR GOOD WORKS, and the Lord may not be blasphemed through you. But WOE TO HIM by whom the name of the Lord is blasphemed! Teach, therefore, sobriety to all, and manifest it also in your own conduct. …” – Blessed St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smryna, an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of the Blessed St. John the Apostle who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 69 AD – c. 155 AD, CHAPTER X.–EXHORTATION TO THE PRACTICE OF VIRTUE, THE EPISTLE OF POLYCARP TO THE PHILIPPIANS)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/polycarp-roberts.html

 

 

 

 

Here are Two Reformers who Preached the same in essence:

 

“… Therefore, let each one see to it that he has these two together: the OIL, which is TRUE FAITH and trust in Christ; and the LAMPS, the VESSEL, which is the OUTWARD SERVICE TOWARD YOUR NEIGHBOR. The WHOLE CHRISTIAN LIFE CONSISTS in THESE TWO THINGS things: BELIEVE GOD. HELP YOUR NEIGHBOR. The WHOLE GOSPEL TEACHES this. PARENTS should TELL IT TO THEIR CHILDREN at HOME and EVERYWHERE. Children, too, should CONSTANTLY FOSTER THIS WORD AMONG THEMSELVES. I should really say something about the sleep of the virgins and about the setting out of the Bridegroom for the wedding. But the hour is late. Another time. May God be gracious to us! Amen. …”- The First Champion of the Protestant Faith, Blessed Martin Luther’s Sermon which was translated in 2013 by the Rev. Paul A. Rydecki, On Faith and Good Works, Preached in Erfurt at St. Michaeliskirche on the Day of the 11,000 Virgins (October 21st), 1522)

Source: http://www.godwithuslc.org/luther-sermon-for-trinity-27/

 

If we Preach the same as even Blessed Martin Luther, the First Protestant that the meaning of this Parable of the 5 Wise and 5 Foolish Virgins is this #CharityDoctrineLifestyle + True Faith in Christ (same meaning in essence with the Church Father quoted here and so ‘most likely right’) how can we be #Heretics? Also this “Prophecy”:

 

“… How then is it possible that Methodism, that is, the religion of the heart, though it flourishes now as a green bay tree, should continue in this state? For the Methodists in every place grow diligent and frugal; consequently they increase in goods. Hence, they proportionably increase in pride, in the desire of the flesh, the desire of the eyes, and the pride of life. So, although the FORM OF RELIGION REMAINS, THE SPIRIT IS SWIFTLY VANISHING AWAY (2 Timothy 3:5). Is there no way to prevent this? this continual declension of pure in effect, to grow rich! What way then, I ask again, can we take that OUR MONEY may NOT SINK US to the NETHERMOST HELL? There is one way, and there is no other under heaven. If those who gain all they can, and save all they can, will likewise GIVE ALL THEY CAN, then the more they gain, the more they will GROW IN GRACE , and the more treasure they will lay up in heaven,”. …”  – Blessed John Wesley, Founder of Methodism

 

Source:

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevin-deyoung/the-pastor-and-the-community-mark-dever/

 

The are many other Church Fathers’ quotes on this but I think these are “sufficient“:

 

“… God has no need of your money, but the poor have. You give it to the poor, and God receives it.  … Charity is no substitute for justice withheld. …  making myself a beggar with the beggars” (Sermon 66, 5) … [presence of the Lord] “in the person of poor people” (Sermon 206, 2; Sermon 113 B, 4) … [The true Christian knows himself to be] “a beggar of God.” “How can you ask of your Lord, when you do not even recognise him in others?”  (Sermon 61, 7-8; Sermon 53 A, 10). … [Prayer, fasting and good works are useless without our helping the poor people, mercy and fraternal love. Augustine frequently preached this to his people during the season of Lent. (Sermon 207, 1; Sermon 209, 2; Sermon 389, 2). ] … “Although one gives and another receives, the one who ministers and the one for whom the ministry is performed are joined.” (Sermon 259, 5. PL 38, 1200). … God made the poor to test the rich” (Sermon 39, 4, 6. PL 38, 243), … “It is better that no one should be poor than that you should perform a work of mercy. Anyone who wished them to be miserable so that he or she can show mercy, is possessed by a cruel mercy. A doctor who wished others to be sick, so that he might practice his art, would be a cruel healer.” (Sermon on Psalm 125, 14. PL 37, 1666; Confessions III, 2, 3). … “A true Christian should never set himself up over other human beings. God gave you a place above the beasts. …. If you wish to be better than another person, you will grudge to see that person as your equal. Therefore, you ought to wish all equal to yourself.” (Comm. on the first letter of John 8, 8. PL 35, 2040). … “How many people there are nowadays, who are not yet Christians, who run to church and ask for its assistance. They all want temporal help.” (Sermon on Psalm 46, 5). … “Let us treat them with human decency because they are human beings … take pity on the condition that is common to all.” (S. Lambot 28, Rev. Ben. 66, 1956, 156-158) ” … Possidius wrote: “When the funds of the Church gave out, Augustine announced this to his flock, telling them that he had nothing to bestow upon those in need. It even happened that he ordered the holy vessels of the church to be broken up and melted down, and the proceeds distributed for the benefit of captives and of as many of the poor people as possible. I would not have mentioned this, if I had not seen that it was done against the all too human objections of some people. Ambrose of Milan also said and wrote that this was a thing that ought to be done in such extreme circumstances.” (“Life of Augustine:” Chapter 24) … “It is not the task of a bishop to save up gold and to push away the hand of the beggar. How many poor people come daily to me for money, pouring out their troubles to me and making an appeal to me. It pains me that I must sometimes disappoint their expectations, because I do not have enough to give to all of them” (Sermon 355, 4, 5. PL 39,57 12). … “Christ is needy when a poor person is in need” (Sermon 38, 8., and “Christ is hungry when poor people are hungry” (Sermon 390, 2; Sermon 32, 20). To come to the aid of the poor people, members of Christ, is to come to the aid of Christ the Head who is present and in need within poor people (Sermon 53 A, 6; Sermon 236, 3). God does not demand much of you. He asks back what he gave you, and from him you take what is enough for you. The extra possessions of rich persons are the necessities of poor persons. When you possess more than you need, you possess what belongs to others. (Exposition on Psalm 147, 12). Christ who is rich in heaven chose to be hungry in the poor people of the earth. Yet in your humanity you hesitate to give to your fellow human being. Do you not realise that what you give, you give to Christ, from whom you received whatever you have to give in the first place. Commentary on Psalm 75 ,9). Whenever you did it for one of the least of mine, you did it for me. Christ has received what you have given; it has been received by the one who gave you the means to give it; it has been received by the one who at the end will give you himself. (Sermon 389, 4). You give bread to a hungry person; but it would be better if nobody was hungry, and you could give it to no one. You clothe the naked person. I wish that everyone was clothed already, so that this need did not exist. (Tractate on 1 John 8,8). … Go on making use of your special, expensive foods, because you have got into the habit of them, because if you change your habits you get sick. Go on making use of your superfluities, but give the poor their necessities. He looks to you, you look to God. He looks to a hand that was made as he was, you look to a hand that made you. But it did not only make you, it also made the poor man with you. He gave you both this life as a single road to travel along. You have found yourselves companions, walking along the same road; he is carrying nothing, you have an excessive load. He is carrying nothing with him, you are carrying more than you need. You are overloaded; give him some of what you have. At a stroke, you feed him and lessen your load. So give to the poor; I am begging you, I am warning you, I am commanding you, I am ordering you.Give to the poor people whatever you like. (Sermon 389, 5-6) . Do you think it is a small matter that you are eating the food of some other person? Listen to the apostle: We brought nothing into this world. You have come into the world, you have found a full table spread for you. But the earth and its fullness belongs to the Lord. God bestows the world on the poor people, and He bestows it on the rich people. (Sermon 29, 2) … If it is useless for a farmer to look for a crop where he knows he has not sown any seed, how much worse must it be to look to God to be rich in giving, when you have declined to listen to a poor man asking you for help?  It is in the poor person, after all, that Christ has wished to be fed. Let us not, then, reject our God when He is in need in the people who are poor, so that we in our need may be satisfied by Him in His riches. We have people in physical need, and we have spiritual needs ourselves; so let us give, in order to receive. (Sermon 206, 2)” … As God, a rich person; as a human being, a poor person. Truly, that Man rose to heaven already rich, and now sits at the right hand of the Father, but here, among us, He still suffers hunger, thirst and nakedness: here He is a poor person and is in poor people.(Sermon 123, 4) …  First and foremost, clearly, please remember the poor people, so that what you withhold from yourselves by living more simply, you may deposit in the treasury of heaven. Let the denial of self of one who undertakes it willingly become the support of the one who has nothing. Let the voluntary want of the person who has plenty become the needed plenty of the person in want. (Sermon 210, 12) … Christ who is rich is in need until the end of the world. He is in need not insofar as he is the Head, but in his members. Let us be gracious to Christ. He is with us in those who are his own, he is with us in ourselves. (Sermon 239) … Fasting punishes you but brings no refreshment to anyone else. Your restriction will be fruitful if it brings amplitude to another. So you have deprived yourself, have you? But to whom do you mean to give what you denied yourself? How do you intend to dispose of what you went without? How many poor people might grow fat on that luncheon we missed? Fast in such a fashion that while another person is fed you may feel the satisfaction of having lunched on your prayers, which are now more likely to win a hearing. Do you want your prayers to fly to God? Then make two wings for it, fasting and alms deeds. (Exposition of Psalm 42, 8.) …

There are two types of persons to whom you must give. Two types of persons hunger; one for bread, the other for what is right. Between these two hungry persons you find yourself as the doer of the good work; if charity motivates the work, it serves the good of both. For the one desires what he may eat, the other desires what he may imitate. You feed the one, and give yourself as a pattern to the other; so you have given to both of them: the one you have given reason to thank you for killing his hunger, the other you have given reason to imitate you by setting him an example. (Homilies on the First Letter of John 8, 9)  …” – Blessed St. Augustine of Hippo, Doctor of the Church, who influenced virtually all of subsequent Western philosophy and Catholic theology, as well as a significant amount of Protestant theology (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD)

 

Sources for these quotes:

http://www.catholictradition.org/Saints/saintly-quotes2.htm

 

and

 

http://www.augnet.org/en/works-of-augustine/his-ideas/2325-the-poor/

 

or summarised from the official Augustinian international web site http://www.osanet.org

 

“… ‘7. Therefore in the Gospel, the Lord, the Teacher of our life and Master of eternal salvation, quickening the assembly of believers, and providing for them for ever when quickened, among His divine commands and precepts of heaven, commands and prescribes nothing more frequently than that we should devote ourselves to almsgiving, and not depend on earthly possessions, but rather lay up heavenly treasures. “Sell,” says He, “your goods, and give alms.“(1) And again: “Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon the earth, where moth and rust do corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal. But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal. For where thy treasure is, there will thy heart be also.“(2) And when He wished to set forth a man perfect and complete by the observation of the law,(3) He said, “If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven; and come and follow me.”(4) Moreover, in another place He says that a merchant of the heavenly grace, and a gainer of eternal salvation, ought to purchase the precious pearl–that is, eternal life–at the price of the blood of Christ, from the amount of his patrimony, parting with all his wealth for it. He says: “The kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchantman seeking goodly pearls. And when he found a precious pearl, he went away and sold all that he had, and bought it.”(5) 8. In fine, He calls those the children of Abraham whom He sees to be laborious in aiding and nourishing the poor. For when Zacchaeus said, “Behold, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have done any wrong to any man, I restore fourfold,” Jesus answered and said, “That salvation has this day come to this house, for that he also is a son of Abraham.”(6) For if Abraham believed in God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness, certainly he who gives alms according to God’s precept believes in God, and he who has the truth of faith maintains the fear of God; moreover, he who maintains the fear of God considers God in showing mercy to the poor. For he labours thus because he believes–because he knows that what is foretold by God’s word is true, and that the Holy Scripture cannot lie–that unfruitful trees, that is, unproductive men, are cut off and cast into the fire, but that the merciful are called into the kingdom. He also, in another place, calls laborious and fruitful men faithful; but He denies faith to unfruitful and barren ones, saying, “If ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to you that which is true? And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man’s, who shall give you that which is your own?”(7)  … (5) Remembering which precepts, Daniel, when king Nebuchodonosor was in anxiety, being frightened by an adverse dream, gave him, for the turning away of evils, a remedy to obtain the divine help, saying, “Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable to thee; and redeem thy sins by almsgivings, and thine unrighteousness by mercies to the poor, and God will be patient(6) to thy sins.”(7) And as the king did not obey him, he underwent the misfortunes and mischiefs which he had seen, and which he might have escaped and avoided had he redeemed his sins by almsgiving. Raphael the angel also witnesses the like, and exhorts that alms should be freely and liberally bestowed, saying, “Prayer is good, with fasting and alms; because alms doth deliver from death, and it purgeth away sins.”(8. He shows that our prayers and fastings are of less avail, unless they are aided by almsgiving; that entreaties alone are of little force to obtain what they seek, unless they be made sufficient(9) by the addition of deeds and good works. The angel reveals, and manifests, and certifies that our petitions become efficacious by almsgiving, that life is redeemed from dangers by almsgiving, that souls are delivered from death by almsgiving.” …”– Blessed St. Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage, a pre-eminent Latin writer of Western Christianity until Jerome and Augustine, Martyr for Christ, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord  (c. 200 AD – c. 258 AD)

 

Source [On Works and Alms Concerning Works and Almsgiving.]:

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/on-works-and-alms-concerning-works-and-almsgiving-de-opere-et-eleemosynis-11413

 

 

 

“… “Do you see that our practice has more power to do good? By practice I mean, not your fasting, nor yet your strewing sackcloth and ashes under you, but if you despise wealth, as it ought to be despised; if you be kindly affectioned, if you give your bread to the hungry, if you control anger, if you cast out vainglory, if you put away envy. So He Himself used to teach: for, ‘Learn of me,’ says He, ‘for I am meek and lowly in heart.’ [Matthew 11:29] He did not say, ‘for I fasted,’ although surely He might have spoken of the forty days, yet He says not this; but, ‘I am meek and lowly in heart.’ And again, when sending them out, He said not, ‘Fast,’ but, ‘Eat of all that is set before you.’ With regard to wealth, however, He required of them great strictness, saying,Provide not gold, or silver, or brass, in your purses.’ [Matthew 10:9]. And all this I say, not to depreciate fasting, God forbid, but rather highly to commend it. But I grieve when other duties being neglected, you think it enough for salvation, having but the last place in the choir of virtue. For the greatest thing is charity, and moderation, and ALMSGIVING; WHICH HITS A HIGHER MARK EVEN THAN VIRGINITY.” …” – Blessed St. John Chrysostom, Archbishop of Constantinople, Doctor of the Church, one of the Three Holy Hierarchs, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord (c. 349 AD – c. 407 AD, Homily 46, Homilies on the Gospel of St. Matthew)

 

Source:

 

https://www.orthodoxchurchquotes.com/2013/11/29/st-john-chrysostom-for-the-greatest-thing-is-charity-and-moderation-and-almsgiving-which-hits-a-higher-mark-even-than-virginity/

 

Summary

 

These are “not” man-made doctrines but what those Bible Verses earlier quoted Reveal First. These First Christianity quotes prove that such an understanding of Doctrine was in the Church all the time.

 

 

 

 

 

Best is this:

 

Christ Himself did “not” point to PERFECTION of CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE as MORE  ‘Fasting and Prayer or Church Assembly or Worship or even Holiness’ but ONLY AS THIS #CHARITYDOCTRINELIFESTYLE (perhaps that’s why St. John Chrysosthom’s quote above rings true in that ‘… and ALMSGIVING; WHICH HITS A HIGHER MARK EVEN THAN VIRGINITY.” …’ in last quote above where in VERSES below CHRIST SAYS that CHRISTIAN PERFECTION is SOLELY “… 21JESUS said to him, “IF you want to be PERFECT, go, SELL what YOU HAVE and GIVE to the POOR, and YOU WILL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN; and come, FOLLOW ME.” 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away SORROWFUL, for he had GREAT POSSESSIONS. …” (Matthew 19:21 – 22), NKJV)

 

Verses:

 

“… 16Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[d] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17So He said to him, [e]“Why do you call Me good? [f]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” 20The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [g]from my youth. What do I still lack?” 21JESUS said to him, “IF you want to be PERFECT, go, SELL what YOU HAVE and GIVE to the POOR, and YOU WILL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN; and come, FOLLOW ME.” 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away SORROWFUL, for he had GREAT POSSESSIONS. …” (Matthew 19:16 – 22, NKJV)

 

So to REALLY HONOUR THE BLOOD OF CHRIST is not just to ‘speak about Him’ and revert to worldly ways but rather to ALSO PREACH and DO WHAT HE COMMANDED here where THE PERFECTION of HIS COMMANDS BEYOND THE 10 COMMANDMENTS even is clearly this #CharityDoctrine Command as Demonstrated in Verses by CHRIST HIMSELF as ‘it is Written’.

 

 

 

 

The New Covenant is all about “Doing Good Works” for keeping (obeying) “our part of the Covenant“, Verse:

 

“… 20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our LORD JESUS, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the BLOOD of the EVERLASTING COVENANT 21MAKE YOU PERFECT in EVERY GOOD WORK to DO HIS WILL, working in you that which is WELL PLEASING in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. …” (Hebrews 13:20 – 21, KJV)

 

Yes, to do “GOOD” to others is the NEW COVENANT in HIS BLOOD for us to fulfill as the Verses above Describe Beautifully “as it is Written”. So to miss this Doctrine of Good Works, is to miss our part for the “New Covenant“. Comment: One of the Worst False Teaching is one that Does not Teach Good Works as Doctrine because it doesn’t fulfil ‘our part’ to HONOUR CHRIST’S BLOOD for this EVERLASTING COVENANT as these Verses Describe. Pease be careful of #Lawlessness

 

Please don’t forget “Context” where we have seen that from “Fasting and Prayer or Church Assembly or Worship or even Holiness”, if WITHOUT the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE, GOD DOES NOT VALUE IT or ONLY VALUES it by RELATIVE MEASURE of CHARITY DOCTRINE LIVED (as Verses quoted earlier at the start clearly Reveals for each claim made) and THAT’S WHY THE #CHARITYDOCTRINELIFESTYLE is at the HEART of the GOSPEL COMMANDS no matter ‘what Other Commands be it 10 Commandment Holiness Commands or anything else one wishes to Practice‘ which is also probably also why the ORIGINAL ‘Sola Fide’ (Faith Alone Preacher) TAUGHT that the “GOOD WORKS” he is referring  to as a ‘General Saying‘ (in next Verse below is PRIMARILY the CHARITY DOCTRINE type of “… MEETING  URGENT NEEDS of OTHERS …” (Can you please see it how the Bible Agrees Perfectly?) regardless of the fact that we are “not” saved by these “Good Works“, Verses:

“…  14who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself HIS OWN SPECIAL PEOPLE, ZEALOUS FOR GOOD WORKS. … 1Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be READY FOR EVERY GOOD WORK, 2to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men … 4But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, … 8This is a FAITHFUL SAYING, and THESE THINGS I WANT YOU TO AFFIRM CONSTANTLY, that THOSE WHO HAVE BELIEVED IN GOD should be CAREFUL TO MAINTAIN GOOD WORKS. These things are good and profitable to men. … 14And let OUR PEOPLE also LEARN TO MAINTAIN GOOD WORKS, to MEET URGENT NEEDS, that they may NOT BE UNFRUITFUL. …” (Titus 2:14, 3:1, 4 – 5, 8, 14, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

Can anyone be Saved on Judgment Day?

 

Question

General mainstream Protestant belief is that Christians are saved when Christ Returns during the “First Resurrection” and Reign with Him for 1000 years (Revelation 20:4 – 6)  while all those who are Resurrected during the “Second Resurrection” on “Judgment Day” are thrown into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:10) at the end of this 1000 years.


Reply

Perhaps that’s one way to look at the Bible Verses. But I think there are other “possibilities” here as described below:

 

1) Matthew 25:31 – 46 Possible Context

 

Some seemed to be Saved on “Judgment Day”/”Second Resurrection” only based on Matthew 25:31 – 46’s ‘sheep of the nations’ which with the Chiliasm Timeline seems to point that these cannot be Christians (because they are saved 1000 years earlier) and so seems to be some type of non-Elect Salvation toward non-Christians who have Practiced the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle toward “Christians” in their lives prior as I have discussed with St. Irenaeous of Lyons’ quotes using even John 5:28 – 29 too  in Pages 593 to 604 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook (a lot of details).

 

2) Romans 2 Possible  Context

 

“…  5But in accordance with YOUR HARDNESS and your [a]impenitent heart you are [b]treasuring up for yourself wrath in the DAY OF WRATH and REVELATION of the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT OF GOD, 6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 ETERNAL LIFE to those who by PATIENT CONTINUANCE IN DOING GOOD SEEK FOR GLORY, HONOR and IMMORTALITY;  8but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9tribulation and anguish, on EVERY SOUL OF MAN who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the [c]Greek; 10but glory, honor, and peace to EVERYONE WHO WORKS WHAT IS GOOD, TO THE JEW FIRST AND ALSO TO THE GREEK [Gentiles]. 11For there is NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD. 12For as many as have SINNED WITHOUT THE LAW will also PERISH WITHOUT LAW, and as many as have SINNED IN THE LAW WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW 13(for NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST IN THE SIGHT OF GOD, BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW WILL BE JUSTIFIED;  …” (Romans 2:5 – 13, NKJV)

Can you see it?

 

  1. These ones spoken of in Romans 2 are JUDGED on JUDGMENT DAY ONLY

 

“…  5But in accordance with YOUR HARDNESS and your [a]impenitent heart you are [b]treasuring up for yourself wrath in the DAY OF WRATH and REVELATION of the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT OF GOD, …” (Romans 2:5, NKJV)

 

  1. Judgment Day Judgment is based on “Fruit” of deeds

 

“… 6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: …” (Romans 2:6, NKJV)

 

  1. Some are Judged (Condemned) only on Judgment Day based on their “Works/Deeds”

 

“… 6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: …   8but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9tribulation and anguish, on EVERY SOUL OF MAN who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the [c]Greek; … 11For there is NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD. …” (Romans 2:6, 8, 9, 11, NKJV)

 

  1. Some are Saved only on Judgment Day based on their “Works/Deeds”

“… 6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 ETERNAL LIFE to those who by PATIENT CONTINUANCE IN DOING GOOD SEEK FOR GLORY, HONOR and IMMORTALITY;  … 10but glory, honor, and peace to EVERYONE WHO WORKS WHAT IS GOOD, TO THE JEW FIRST AND ALSO TO THE GREEK [Gentiles]. 11For there is NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD. … BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW WILL BE JUSTIFIED …” (Romans 2:6, 7, 10, 11,13 NKJV)

 

  1. This Impartial Judgment of God includes those who never heard the Gospel/Law too

 

“… 12For as many as have SINNED WITHOUT THE LAW will also PERISH WITHOUT LAW, … 14for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. …” (Romans 2:12, 14 – 16, NKJV)

 

  1. This Impartial Judgment of God includes those who heard the Gospel/Law too

 

“… and as many as have SINNED IN THE LAW WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW 13(for NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST IN THE SIGHT OF GOD, BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW WILL BE JUSTIFIED;  …” (Romans 2:12 – 13, NKJV)

Possible Meaning:

The phrase “… as many as have SINNED IN THE LAW WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW 13(for NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST IN THE SIGHT OF GOD, BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW WILL BE JUSTIFIED; …” (Romans 2:12 – 13) = Those who have heard of the LAW/GOSPEL are likewise JUDGED based on what they have heard and if they DO THE LAW/GOSPEL Commands, they have a ‘possibility’ to be JUSTIFIED as Verse 7 here gives the “Context for Justification” as obtaining “Eternal Life” namely, “… ETERNAL LIFE to those who by PATIENT CONTINUANCE IN DOING GOOD SEEK FOR GLORY, HONOR and IMMORTALITY …” (Romans 2:7) where Verse 6 says this is based on “their deeds/works/lifestyle lived prior” as it reads “…6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: …”(Romans 2:6)

How can this be “not” Salvation by Works then?

God May Grant them Mercy which may be evidenced by the Life of “Good Works” of holiness + #CharityDoctrine which these may have lived as the example of Cornelius being accepted even before he was a Christian in Acts 10 may be “Generalized” as Apostle St. Peter concluded for ‘similar  ones like Cornelius’ as  follows:

“… But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. …” (Acts 10:35, NKJV)

 

The fact that they did their acts of Mercy toward Christians in their lives prior whilst being unbelievers may point to God’s Mercy on them as even the Famous Bible Case of King Cyrus of Persia Reveals where Cyrus was used by God as a “Messiah” (the only Gentile ever given this title in the Bible, Isaiah 45:1) to do Acts of Mercy toward the Jews by setting them free from their earthly oppressors (Isaiah 45:1- 6) where the best Context part is that Cyrus did NOT EVEN KNOW THE TRUE GOD at all whilst doing this nor after doing this as per history and as the Verse Reads for this part as, “… THERE IS NO GOD BESIDES ME. I WILL GIRD YOU, THOUGH YOU HAVE NOT KNOWN ME, …” (Isaiah 45:5, NKJV).

 

So similarly, these “Surprised Sheep or Gentiles who are Saved on Judgment Day” may have done their acts of Mercy toward Christians by giving them business or helping them financially or with this World’s Goods by God’s Move as He Did with Cyrus, King of Persia and thus may be given the chance to believe after seeing the Risen Christ somewhere between now and the Last Day (as John 6:40 can mean this).

 

I have discussed this in detail in Pages 958 to 968 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.

 

3) The ONESIPHORUS Case Possible Context

 

Is there a Verse in the Bible that Directly links the #CharityDoctrine done toward a #Christian to possibly merit MERCY to be SHOWN on JUDGMENT DAY Context? Yes, here are two Verses:

 

“… 16The LORD GRANT MERCY to the HOUSEHOLD OF ONESIPHORUS, FOR HE OFTEN REFRESHED ME, and was not ashamed of my chain; 17but when he arrived in Rome, he sought me out very zealously and found me. 18The LORD GRANT TO HIM THAT HE MAY FIND MERCY FROM THE LORD IN THAT DAY—and YOU KNOW VERY WELL HOW MANY WAYS HE MINISTERED [d]TO ME AT EPHESUS. …” (2 Timothy 1:12 – 18, NKJV)

 

Comments:

1. Please notice that “God’s Mercy” on “that Day (Judgment Day)” is only Quoted in Scripture to refer to “Eternal Life” Context.

 

  1. This Verse regarding ONESIPHORUS cannot be in Context of Reward because “no” extra Reward can be given based on Mercy as “Rewards are based on Merit (deserved)” while in comparison “Mercy” is given based on God’s Decision alone to the “undeserved”.

 

  1. So the “Mercy” in “That Day” spoken in Verses here toward ONESIPHORUS or even the HOUSEHOLD OF ONESIPHORUS as a whole most likely points to “Mercy unto Eternal Life” based on the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle lived as I have discussed in Pages 1182 to 1193 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook here.

 

  1. This is “not” Salvation by Works but rather the “Fruit” of Salvation which will be evidenced in any person’s life whom “God Saves” and thus “Common Ground” toward all who are Saved by Mercy on Judgment Day via this Charity Doctrine Fruit also implies that this must be “the oil” the Wise Virgins had as First Christianity Taught likewise.

 

  1. Apostle St. Paul won’t be asking for “Mercy” to be shown to Blessed Onesiphorus due to the latter’s “Charity Doctrine Lifestyle” unless it is “possible” based on this on “Judgment Day” and that’s why we consider the “possibility” that even Possibly some non-Christians may be shown this same Mercy if they were kind to Christians likewise by practicing the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle toward Christians too. So we can ask but let God Alone Decide in the end which makes no one a heretic here.

 

  1. Fruit” is our “Works” (Good or Bad)

 

“… 10“Say to the righteous that it shall be well with them,

For they shall eat the fruit of their doings.

11Woe to the wicked! It shall be ill with him,

For the reward of his hands shall be [h]given him. …” (Isaiah 3:10 – 11, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

4) Galatians 6:8 Possible Context

 

“… 6Let him who is taught the word share in all good things with him who teaches. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he WHO SOWS TO THE SPIRIT WILL OF THE SPIRIT REAP EVERLASTING LIFE. 9And let us NOT GROW WEARY while DOING GOOD, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us DO GOOD TO ALL, ESPECIALLY TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF FAITH. …” (Galatians 6:6 – 10, NKJV)

Comments:

  1. i) These Verses are primarily talking about “Doing Good” in the Context of the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle of “sharing and giving” as Verses 6 and 10 imply clearly.

 

  1. ii) Context for Verse 8’s ‘reap Everlasting Life’ seems to be ‘General’ in light of Verse 7 which Speaks of ‘man in General’. If this is true, then it can explain that those with “Good obedience to God’s Law/Gospel” as we saw in “Romans 2:13” earlier can thus be “Justified” for “Eternal Life” based on “Doing Good” (as Romans 2:7 describes) under this understanding that it is NOT their works which saves them but that by DOING HIS WILL (His Command for DOING GOOD here) they “REAP ETERNAL LIFE from HIS SPIRIT” as a “GIFT” because any COMMAND of GOD when FULFILLED SOWS into HIS SPIRIT.

 

iii) Context for Verse 6 reveals the #CharityDoctrine type of DOING GOOD as the main type even or the best type of DOING GOOD toward one who shared GOSPEL THINGS too.

 

  1. iv) Context for Verse 9 describes that we should “… NOT GROW WEARY while DOING GOOD …” indicating that DOING GOOD ought to be a #LIFESTYLE and not once in a while as only a lifestyle such as the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle can cause one to be WEARY (indicating persistence and perseverance) implying that “once in a while type of doing Good” may NOT SOW INTO THE SPIRIT for EVERLASTING LIFE as Verse 8 can be connected to it.

 

 

 

  1. v) The Condition “… we shall reap if we do not lose heart …” (Galatians 6:9) indicates that some may lose heart (Conditional to “our free choice”) to persevere in this. Please notice that contrary to popular Christian understanding that “reaping” refers to rewards, these Verses point to REAPING EVERLASTING LIFE (Verse 8) under this condition of “perseverance”.

 

Can you see it?

 

  1. vi) Verse 10 makes it very clear that this DOING GOOD referred to from Verses 6 to 10 here is primarily or probably only the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as “no” other type of good can a Christian do toward ‘all men’ (beyond believers as instructed here – can you see it?) where the REAPING here is NOT REWARDS only BUT EVERLASTING LIFE too (Verse 8, Context).

 

vii)  So in Principle, this REAPING here which is NOT REWARDS only BUT EVERLASTING LIFE too by SOWING into THE SPIRIT’s COMMANDS (Galatians 6:8)  based on especially the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle lived toward ALL MEN and not-believers-only  (Galatians 6:9, 10) could explain in analogy how the Romans 2:13 earlier’s JUSTIFIED ones may apply likewise toward JUDGMENT DAY Salvation as Romans 2:7 and Romans 2:10 implies based on “Deeds/Works” (Romans 2:6) toward some non-Christians too as Romans 2:11 here seems to agree to this possible generalization as there is “no” partiality with God (by Relative Measure of what Gospel Command they have heard):

 

“… 6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 ETERNAL LIFE to those who by PATIENT CONTINUANCE IN DOING GOOD SEEK FOR GLORY, HONOR and IMMORTALITY;  … 10but glory, honor, and peace to EVERYONE WHO WORKS WHAT IS GOOD, TO THE JEW FIRST AND ALSO TO THE GREEK [Gentiles]. 11For there is NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD. …12 and as many as have SINNED IN THE LAW WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW 13(for NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST IN THE SIGHT OF GOD,  BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW WILL BE JUSTIFIED …” (Romans 2:6, 7, 10, 11,12, 13 NKJV)

How about their sins?

Comment: I mean  just like for Galatians 6:6 – 10’s Context of “Believers”, this “REAPING unto EVERLASTING LIFE” based on “SOWING (by Doing His Commands)” is imperfect as Christians too have “sins”, likewise I think it is possible that the sins of such non-Christians may thus be forgiven for those saved ones. Where is the threshold? Only God knows (if this interpretation is true).

5) Few Saved Possible Context

 

The “Narrow Gate to Life” Context clearly seems to refer to this “Context” of attaining to the First Resurrection (being His Bride) and Participating in the Millennial Reign of Christ for 1000 years (as Verses below agree calling it as ‘ENTERING the KINGDOM OF GOD’ when all these Verses are understood collectively):

 

“… 22And He went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there FEW WHO ARE SAVED?” And He said to them, 24“Strive to enter through the NARROW GATE, for many, I say to you, WILL SEEK TO ENTER AND WILL NOT BE ABLE. 25When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ 28There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the KINGDOM OF GOD, and YOURSELVES THRUST OUT. 29They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and SIT DOWN IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD. 30And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.” …” (Luke 13:22 – 30, NKJV)

 

  1. No one without faith Enter this Rest

“… 3For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.” …” (Hebrews 4:3 – 5, NKJV)

 

  1. No one disobedient enters this rest

“… 6Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” 8For if [b]Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. 11Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of DISOBEDIENCE.  …” (Hebrews 4:6 – 10, NKJV)

6) Many Saved Possible Context

 

I have discussed this in detail in Pages 1095 to 1130 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook . The idea is that those without ‘faith’ (definition of “faith” is ‘believing without seeing’, Hebrews 11:1) cannot participate in the “First Resurrection” and 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ (Revelation 20:4 – 6) but these may be saved via ‘Believing after seeing’ (John 6:36 – 40) during the “Second Resurrection on Judgment Day/Last Day” (Revelation 20:10) by God’s Mercy as these Verses may point to become the “… nations who are saved …” (Revelation 21:24) in that Final New Earth without sea even (Revelation 21:1) where some may need the Tree of Life’s LEAVES part only given to them for “… The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 22:2) or some may drink of the “Water of Life Freely” being the “Thirsty” ones too (Revelation 22:17, Revelation 21:6) where “thirsty” can refer to ‘lack of believing’ (meaning they are “not” completely unbelieving but are in between) based on usage in John 7:37 – 39.

 

Verses for these:

 

“… Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. …” (Hebrews 11:1, NKJV)

 

“… 4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5But the REST OF THE DEAD did not live again until the thousand years were finished.  Blessed and holy is he who has part in the FIRST RESURRECTION. OVER SUCH THE SECOND DEATH has NO POWER, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a THOUSAND YEARS. ….” (Revelation 20:4 – 7, NKJV)

 

“… 34JESUS ANSWERED and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are counted worthy to attain that AGE (Aeon/Olam), and the resurrection from the dead (Revelation 20:4 – 6), NEITHER MARRY NOR ARE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE; 36NOR CAN THEY DIE ANYMORE, FOR THEY ARE EQUAL TO THE ANGELS and ARE SONS OF GOD, being SONS OF THE RESURRECTION. …” (Luke 20:34 – 36, NKJV)

 

“… No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. …” (John 6:44, NKJV)

 

“… And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” …” (John 12:32, NKJV)

 

Perhaps Christ’s Draws all People to Himself to give them this chance of Believing after seeing Possibility for a  non-Elect Salvation Possibility as the “Context” for these Verses around John 6:44 above seems to point to that as follows:

 

“… 36But I said to you that YOU HAVE SEEN ME and YET DO NOT BELIEVE … 40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES THE SON and BELIEVES IN HIM may have EVERLASTING LIFE; and I will RAISE HIM UP at the LAST DAY.” …” (John 6:36, 40, NKJV)

 

“… And as MOSES LIFTED UP the SERPENT in the wilderness, even so must the SON OF MAN BE LIFTED UP, 15that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM should [c]NOT PERISH but have ETERNAL LIFE. …” (John 3:14 – 15, NKJV)

 

“… 8Then THE LORD SAID to MOSES “Make a FIERY SERPENT, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he LOOKS AT IT, SHALL LIVE.” 9So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a SERPENT HAD BITTEN ANYONE, when he LOOKED AT THE BRONZE SERPENT, he LIVED. …” (Number 21:8 – 9, NKJV)

 

“… 37On the LAST DAY, that great day of the feast, JESUS stood and cried out, saying, “IF ANYONE THIRSTS, let him come to Me and drink. 38He WHO BELIEVES IN ME, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those [g]believing in Him would receive; for the [h]Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. …” (John 7:37 – 39, NKJV)

Note: The phrase “Last Day” in John 6 and 7 Verses can also Speak allegorically especially since John 6:40 contains this “Possibility” of “BELIEVING AFTER SEEING” clearly in the Context of the “… ONE WHO THIRSTS. …” till the “… “LAST DAY” …” (John 6:40 & John 7:37) metaphor found in both these Verses which may indicate that such a Hope may be available on Judgment Day for some as these quoted Verses in Revelation here also seem to agree as the “BRIDE” or Christians are mentioned to be different (in Revelation 22:17) mysteriously.

 

“… 6And He said to me, “IT[C] IS DONE! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the WATER OF LIFE FREELY TO HIM WHO THIRSTS. 7He WHO OVERCOMES [d]SHALL INHERIT ALL THINGS, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8But the cowardly, [e]unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” …” (Revelation 21:6 – 8, NKJV)

 

“… 8“Therefore wait for Me,” says the Lord,

“Until the day I rise up [d]for plunder;

My determination is to GATHER THE NATIONS

To My assembly of kingdoms,

To pour on them My indignation,

ALL MY FIERCE ANGER;All the earth shall be devoured With the fire of My jealousy.

9“For then I WILL RESTORE TO THE PEOPLES a PURE [E]LANGUAGE,

That THEY ALL MAY CALL ON THE NAME of the LORD, To SERVE HIM WITH ONE ACCORD. …” (Zephaniah 3:8 – 9, NKJV)

 

“… And the SPIRIT and the BRIDE say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And LET HIM WHO THIRSTS COME. Whoever desires, let him TAKE THE WATER OF LIFE FREELY. …” – Blessed Apostle St. John (Revelation 22:17, NKJV)

 

“… But THE REST OF THE DEAD DID NOT LIVE AGAIN until the THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED. This is the first resurrection. …”1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was NO MORE SEA.  ” … Come, I will show you the [g]BRIDE, the LAMB’S WIFE.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED ME THE [H]GREAT CITY, the [I]HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN from God,  … 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE. …” … In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 20:5, 21:1, 8 – 10, 24 – 27,  22:2, NKJV)

 

 

 

Possible Literal meaning of the “Tree of Life”

 

1) Tree of Life as a Metaphor to represent the 1000 Years Millennial Reign Timeline

 

“… Now we have understood that the expression used among these words, ‘According to the days of the tree[of life] shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound’ obscurely predicts a thousand years. For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject…” –  Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ  (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’, CHAPTER LXXX)

Source:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.htm

 

 

”… Also there shall not be there any immature [one], nor an old man who does not fulfil his time: for the youth shall be of a hundred years; and the sinner shall die a hundred years old, yet shall be accursed [Isaiah 65:20]. And they shall build houses, and inhabit them themselves; and shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them themselves, and shall drink wine. And they shall not build, and others inhabit; neither shall they prepare the vineyard, and others eat. For as the days of the tree of life shall be the days of the people in thee; for the works of their hands shall endure. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Point 4, Chapter XXXIV, Book 5)

Source:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Tree of Life as a literal Tree in some early Christian Prophecies outside the Bible

 

 

The Saints will Partake from the Tree of Life First

 

 

“… 10 And he shall open the gates of paradise, And shall remove the threatening sword against Adam. 11 And he shall give to the saints to eat from the tree of life, And the spirit of holiness shall be on them. 12 And Beliar shall be bound by him, And he shall give power to His children to tread upon the evil spirits. 13 And the Lord shall rejoice in His children, And be well pleased in His beloved ones for ever. 14 Then shall Abraham and Isaac and Jacob exult, And I will be glad, And all the saints shall clothe themselves with joy. …” – Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs (Reached their Final Form in c. 2nd Century)

 

Source [ Points 10 – 14, Chapter 18, THE TESTAMENT OF LEVI, THE THIRD SON OF JACOB AND LEAH, Translation by Mr. Charles]:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/patriarchs-charles.html

 

 

or this

 

“… 1.And on that day the heart of many will harden and they will flee from him, saying, “This is not the Christ. The Christ does not kill the righteous. He does not pursue men so that he might seek them, but He persuades them with signs and wonders.” 2.On that day the Christ will pity those who are His own. And He will send from heaven his sixty-four thousand angels, each of whom has six wings. 3.The sound will move heaven and earth when they give praise and glorify. 4.Now those upon whose forehead the name of Christ is written and upon whose hand is the seal both the small and the great, will be taken up upon their wings and lifted up before his wrath. 5.Then Gabriel and Uriel will become a pillar of light leading them into the holy land. 6.It will be granted to them to eat from the tree of life. They will wear white garments…and angels will watch over them. They will not thirst, nor will the son of lawlessness be able to prevail over them. …” – Apocalypse of Elijah (Chapter V, Verses 1 – 6)

Source:

http://www.3-in-1.net/Pseudepigrapha/Apocalypse%20of%20Elijah/The%20Apocalypse%20of%20Elijah.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) Example of an Early Christian Commentary attesting to a “Literal Tree of Life

 

Will Every Christian Partake of the Tree of Life in the Paradise of God?

Yes if they Practice these traits :

 

“… [Chapter 2] Indeed, in his first letter he says, I know your suffering and works and your patience, I know you are suffering and see your works and patience: do not think I remain far (or ‘for long’) away from you. And that you cannot bear evil people, and that those who say they are apostles, you discovered them liars, and you have patience according to My name. All these belong to praise, and not mediocre praise. But also such men and of such a kind, and the selection of such men, indicates that every one of them must be admonished so that they are not deprived of good things. He says he has a few things against them, saying: You have abandoned your earlier love: remember from where you have fallen. He who falls, falls from a height, and therefore he says from where, for at all times until the end works of love are to be practiced, with is the greatest commandment. Finally, unless this is done, was threatened to move the lampstand from its place, that is, to scatter the people. For you hate the works of the Nicolaitans which I also hate; you have this, this belongs to praise. For the works of the Nicolaitans: before this time, false and disease-bearing men, ministers in the name of Nicolaus, made for themselves a heresy, (saying) that something devoted (to an idol) may be exorcized and eaten, and that whoever had fornicated could receive the peace on the eighth day. Therefore he praises those to whom he has written, to whom, such and so great men, he has promised that tree of life which is in the garden of God. …” – Blessed St. Victorinus, Bishop of Pettau, the First and Oldest Christian Commentary on the Apocalypse of John or Book of Revelation, Martyr for Christ (c. 303 AD)

 

[‘Commentary on the Apocalypse’, circa 2nd half of the third century]:

http://www.bombaxo.com/patristic-stuff/victorinus-in-apocalypsin/

 

Who was he?

 

“… Victorinus was a firm believer in the millennium.[5] He was also much influenced by Origen.[6] His works were ranked with the apocrypha in the decree, later attributed to Pope Gelasius I, which excluded and anathematized them with that of many other early fathers. That is to say they were not considered free of error.[7] By contrast, St. Jerome gives him an honourable place in his catalogue of ecclesiastical writers. Jerome occasionally cites the opinion of Victorinus (in Eccles. iv. 13; in Ezech. xxvi. and elsewhere), but considered him to have been affected by the opinions of the Chiliasts or Millenarians.[8] According to Jerome, Victorinus died a martyr in 304.[9] He is commemorated in both the Eastern and Western Churches on 2 November. …”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorinus_of_Pettau

 

 

 

4) Bible Verses regarding the “Literal Tree of Life

 

 

  1. i) Bible Verse regarding “Literal Tree of Life” pointing to “Literal Edible Food

 

 

“… And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and GOOD FOR FOOD. The TREE OF LIFE was also in the MIDST of the GARDEN, and the TREE of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL. …” (Genesis 2:9, NKJV)

 

 

  1. ii) Bible Verse regarding “Literal Tree of Life” pointing to “Eternal Life” Context

 

“… Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the MAN HAS BECOME LIKE ONE OF US, TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of THE TREE OF LIFE, AND EAT, AND LIVE FOREVER”— …” (Genesis 3:22, NKJV)

 

iii) Bible Verse regarding “Literal Tree of Life” pointing to “Banishment away” Context

 

 

“… So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to GUARD THE WAY to the TREE OF LIFE. …” (Genesis 3:24, NKJV)

 

 

 

  1. iv) Bible Verse regarding “Literal Tree of Life” pointing to ONLY THOSE WHO DO HIS COMMANDMENTS CAN PARTAKE of the TREE of LIFE

 

 

“… 14Blessed are those who WASH THEIR ROBES, so that they will have the RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE, and may ENTER THE CITY by the gates. 15OUTSIDE are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral persons, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. …” (Revelation 22:14 – 15, NASB)

 

In the other Manuscript the phrase “wash their robes” is not used but “do His Commandments” is Written where combining both we see that ‘washing robes = doing His Commandments’ and NOT ‘washed in the Lake of Fire’:

“… 14Blessed are those who [g]DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have the RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE, and may ENTER THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY. 15[h]But OUTSIDE are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. …” (Revelation 22:14 – 15, NKJV)

  1. v) Bible Verse regarding “Literal Tree of Life” pointing to “LITERAL FRUIT and LEAVES”

 

“… In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was THE TREE OF LIFE, which bore TWELVE FRUITS, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 22:2, NKJV)

 

 

  1. vi) Bible Verse regarding “Literal Tree of Life” pointing to “ONLY CHRISTIANS EAT ITS FRUIT”

 

“… He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the CHURCHES. To him who overcomes I WILL GIVE TO EAT from the TREE OF LIFE, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. …” (Revelation 2:7, NKJV)

 

“… 12“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to GIVE TO EVERY ONE ACCORDING TO HIS WORK. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” 14BLESSED are those WHO DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have the RIGHT to THE TREE OF LIFE, and may ENTER through the GATES INTO THE CITY. 15But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. 16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star. …” (Revelation 22:12 – 16, NKJV)

 

Comments:

  1. The “FRUIT” of the “TREE of LIFE” can only be PARTAKEN by CHRISTIANS but the “LEAVES” of the “TREE of LIFE” could be for some of the SAVED NATIONS for THEIR HEALING.

 

  1. Please notice carefully above in Revelation 22:2 that the “FRUIT” and “LEAVES” are clearly distinguished where ONLY the latter (“LEAVES”) is SPECIFICALLY mentioned for the “Healing of the Nations”.

 

  1. Conjecture: Could it be it’s because only “Christians (the Bride)” have CELESTIAL (Heavenly) Resurrection Body and so are ABLE TO PARTAKE of THIS HEAVENLY FRUIT of the TREE of LIFE while the Saved nations having TERRESTRIAL (Earthly) resurrection body and so are unable to ‘eat of its fruit’ but can benefit from ITS LEAVES ONLY for HEALING TOWARD ETERNAL LIFE as part of the Process?
  2. Verses for “LEAVES” of the “TREE OF LIFE” for “HEALING” of the “NATIONS

 

“… 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. … In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was THE TREE OF LIFE, which bore TWELVE FRUITS, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 21:24 , 22:2, NKJV)

 

  1. Verses for Terrestrial Resurrection Body (Earthly) Vs Celestial Resurrection Body (Heavenly)

 

“… 39ALL FLESH IS NOT THE SAME FLESH, but there is one kind [f]of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. 40There are also [g]CELESTIAL BODIES and [h]TERRESTRIAL BODIES; but the GLORY of the CELESTIAL is one, and the GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42So also is the RESURRECTION of THE DEAD.  …” (1 Corinthians 15:39 – 42, NKJV)

 

In 1 Corinthians 15:39 – 42, it’s clear that there are two types of Resurrection bodies mentioned in the Context of the Resurrection of the Dead (1 Corinthians 15:42) namely the “Celestial” (Heavenly) Vs the “Terrestrial” (Earthly) of which I conjecture that the  Celestial one refers to Christians only because only they become one flesh with Christ (as Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32 Reveals) while the rest are only earthly bodies as Christ does “not” become One Flesh with them as it’s only towards His Bride.

 

Please also notice very carefully in 1 Corinthians 15:40 that two types of “Glory” are mentioned for the final Resurrection Bodies namely “but the GLORY of the CELESTIAL is one,” Vs ” and the GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another.” (in 1 Corinthians 15:40).

 

Now the word “Glory” in “… GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another …” (mentioned clearly in 1 Corinthians 15:40) in this Context of “Resurrection of the Dead” (1 Corinthians 15:42)  itself indicates that some of the of the TERRESTRIAL RESURRECTION BODIES are also “Saved” for it doesn’t seem logical for a body raised with “glory” to be “unsaved“. To say that this “Terrestrial Glory” ones refers to some lower Christians contradicts Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32 which describes Christ Sharing One Flesh with all Christians in some way and so they must be “CELESTIAL (Heavenly) RESURRECTION GLORY Bodies only“.

5) First Christianity Quote regarding “Tree of Life” linking to “Immortality

 

“… As we at once perceive that the Creator (Demiurgo) is in this passage represented as vivifying our dead bodies, and promising resurrection to them, and resuscitation from their sepulchres and tombs, conferring upon them immortality also (He says, “For as the tree of life, so shall their days be” ), He is shown to be the only God who accomplishes these things, and as Himself the good Father, benevolently conferring life upon those who have not life from themselves. …” …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Point 1, Chapter XV, Book 5)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

 

 

6) First Christianity Quote regarding “POSSIBLE” UNIVERSALISM regarding “TREE of LIFE

 

 

“… 6. Wherefore also He drove him out of Paradise, and removed him far from the TREE OF LIFE, NOT because He envied him the TREE OF LIFE, as some venture to assert, but because He pitied him, [and did not desire] that he should CONTINUE a SINNER FOR EVER, NOR that the SIN which SURROUNDED him should be IMMORTAL, and EVIL INTERMINABLE and IRREMEDIABLE. But He set a bound to his [state of] sin, by interposing death, and thus causing sin to cease, Romans 6:7 putting an end to it by the dissolution of the flesh, which should take place in the earth, so that man, ceasing at length to live to sin, and dying to it, might begin to live to God. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Point 6, Chapter XXIII, Book 3)

Source:

 

This mysterious quote can also be found here:

 

Source for image: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103323.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

POSSIBLE Summary – Chiliasm Timeline Comments

 

  1. Christ Returns Destroys the Final Antichrist (Revelation 19:11 – 21) and establishes that 1000 years Millennial Reign over the mortal nations is explained in the Book of Revelation in Revelation 20:4 – 9 which clearly includes even those who did not take the mark of the beast and were beheaded during the Final Antichrist (Revelation 20:4).

 

  1. After that Judgment Day happens (Revelation 20:10 – 15).

 

  1. Next the Nations who are saved are mentioned where some (if not all) may partake of the leaves part only of the Tree of life for healing and/or some take the water of life which is given to the Thirsty at that time which is on the Final New Earth and Heavens are Revealed (after Judgment Day) in Revelation 21 and Revelation 22.

 

  1. Can you see the 1000 year gap between the nations mentioned in Revelation 20:4 – 9 (before Judgment Day) and Revelation 21 to 22 (after Judgment Day)? So these are two different nations, the first being “mortals” but the latter being “resurrected” having eternal life.

 

  1. Also “no” mortal can eat of any part of the “Tree of Life” as the Book of Genesis Describes so they that do “not” continue in sin forever (Genesis 3:22). Can you see it?

 

  1. So the “nations who are saved” (Revelation 21:24) after Judgment Day who experience “healing via the leaves of the Tree of Life” (Revelation 22:2) or some “Thirsty ones taking the water of life freely at that time” (Revelation 22:17) when even the Lake of Fire is already revealed for some (Revelation 21:6 – 8.) proves that they are experiencing this in their perfect final resurrected body.

 

  1. This “Water of Life” also is only Revealed to exist at the same timeline as when these are allowed to use the “leaves of the Tree of Life for healing” as these are mentioned together in Revelation 22:1 – 2 where even the Saints are already saved having God’s Name on their foreheads (Revelation 22:4) with “no” more curse of sin existing there (Revelation 22:3) and “no” night in that City (Revelation 22:5) meaning these cannot refer to ‘any other timeline with mortals even or before Judgment Day’. Can you see it?

 

 

In support of such a Possible exegesis, please consider these First Christianity Quotes in light of all these:

Some (if not all) may be Saved from the Lake of Fire Judgment  eventually as per the Exegesis of these few Ancient Important  Authorities of Doctrine in the Christian Faith

 

 

  1. Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan

 

 

‘…Our Saviour has appointed two kinds of resurrection, in accordance with which John says, in the Apocalypse, “Blessed is he that hath part in the first resurrection“; for such come to grace without the judgment. As for those who do not come to the first, but are reserved until the second resurrection, these shall be burnt, until they fulfill their appointed times, between the first and the second resurrection; or, if they should not have fulfilled them then, they shall remain still longer in punishment … ‘ – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the first Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer &Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD)

 

 

Source: https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ambrose

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comment: St. Ambrose of Milan’s quote is so important that it has even affected Roman Catholicism, example quote:

“… In spite of his great status as a Doctor of the Church, however, the theology of Ambrose has at least two unique features that have basically been unacceptable to church dogma for many centuries but which are attracting more attention today. First, it teaches universal salvation. Ambrose was a Christian universalist; he believed that all people would eventually achieve salvation: “For now, since all do not believe, all do not seem to be in subjection. But when all have believed and done the will of God, then Christ will be all and in all.”[5] Perhaps because he was able to read Greek, Ambrose’s theology was significantly influenced by that of Origen (c.185-c.254) and Didymus the Blind (c.313-c.398), two other early Christian universalists. Needless to say, universal salvation is more acceptable to the Catholic Church today, as its new, post-Vatican II Catechism says: “In hope, the Church prays for ‘all men to be saved’.”[6] …”

 

Source: https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ambrose

That same quote may be found in link below (in his main Book, not a disputed source):

“… 182. Let us then shortly sum up our conclusion on the whole matter. A unity of power puts aside all idea of a degrading subjection. His giving up of power, and His victory as conqueror won over death, have not lessened His power. Obedience works out subjection. Christ has taken obedience upon Himself, obedience even to taking on Him our flesh, the cross even to gaining our salvation. Thus where the work lies, there too is the Author of the work. When therefore, all things have become subject to Christ, through Christ’s obedience, so that all bend their knees in His name, then He Himself will be all in all. For now, since all do not believe, all do not seem to be in subjection. But when all have believed and done the will of God, then Christ will be all and in all. And when Christ is all and in all, then will God be all and in all; for the Father abides ever in the Son. How, then, is He shown to be weak, Who redeemed the weak?

 

  1. And lest you should by chance attribute to the weakness of the Son, that it is written, that God has put all things in subjection under Him; learn that He has Himself brought all things into subjection to Himself, for it is written: Our conversation is in heaven, from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus, Who shall change our vile body that it may be fashioned like His glorious body according to the working, whereby He is able to subdue all things unto Himself. Philippians 3:20-21 You have learned, therefore, that He can subdue all things unto Himself according to the working of His Godhead. …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the first Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer &Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD)

Source (  Exposition of the Christian Faith, Book V, Chapter 15 ):

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/34045.htm

  1. Blessed St. Gregory Nazianzus

 

This Hope was uttered toward the ‘Novatian Heretics’ as follows:

“… XIX. But these sins were not after Baptism, you will say. Where is your proof? Either prove it — or refrain from condemning; and if there be any doubt, let charity prevail. But Novatus, you say, would not receive those who lapsed in the persecution. What do you mean by this? If they were unrepentant he was right; I too would refuse to receive those who either would not stoop at all or not sufficiently, and who would refuse to make their amendment counterbalance their sin; and when I do receive them, I will assign them their proper place; but if he refused those who wore themselves away with weeping, I will not imitate him. And why should Novatus’s want of charity be a rule for me? He never punished covetousness, which is a second idolatry; but he condemned fornication as though he himself were not flesh and body. What say you? Are we convincing you by these words? Come and stand here on our side, that is, on the side of humanity. Let us magnify the Lord together. Let none of you, even though he has much confidence in himself, dare to say, Touch me not for I am pure, and who is so pure as I? Give us too a share in your brightness. But perhaps we are not convincing you? Then we will weep for you. Let these men then if they will, follow our way, which is Christ’s way; but if they will not, let them go their own. Perhaps in it they will be baptized with Fire, in that last Baptism which is more painful and longer, which devours wood like grass, 1 Corinthians 3:12-19 and consumes the stubble of every evil….” – Blessed St. Gregory Nazianzus, also known as Gregory the Theologian or Gregory Nazianzen, Archbishop of Constantinople, Theologian, Doctor of the Church, Great Hierarch, Cappadocian Father, Ecumenical Teacher, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord (c. 329 AD – c. 390 AD)

Source [ Oration 39, Chapter XIX, Oration on the Holy Lights. The Oration on the Holy Lights was preached on the Festival of the Epiphany 381, and was followed the next day by that on Baptism.]: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/310239.htm

 

Here’s another quote from him [Page 1091 of the #LakeofFireBook]

Yes, Believing in Eternal Hell, Christ Centered Universalism or Annihilation, i.e. speculating on the Topic of “Judgment” will not save anyone nor will it condemn them (but may make a difference in “rewards” as Blessed St. Gregory the Theologian below has shown):

“… then here too I will provide thee with broad paths. Philosophize about the world or worlds; about matter; about soul; about natures endowed with reason, good or bad; about resurrection, about judgment, about reward, or the Sufferings of Christ. For in these subjects to hit the mark is not useless, and to miss it is not dangerous. But with God we shall have converse, in this life only in a small degree; but a little later, it may be, more perfectly, in the Same, our Lord Jesus Christ, to Whom be glory for ever. Amen. …” – Blessed St. Gregory Nazianzus, also known as Gregory the Theologian or Gregory Nazianzen, Archbishop of Constantinople, Theologian, Doctor of the Church, Great Hierarch, Cappadocian Father, Ecumenical Teacher, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord (c. 329 AD – c. 390 AD) Source (First Theological Oration (Oration 27), Point IX): https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/310227.htm

iii. Blessed Ambrosiaster seem to point to “some” (if not all) who will be “saved from Hell” indicating some type of non-Elect Salvation possibly [ Page 44 of the #LakeofFireBook ]

 

  1. Christ Saves from Hell in the End after His Second Advent/His Second Coming

 

 

“… The prophet Joel also predicted this phenomenon so that one cannot doubt the fulfillment of a fact attested by several witnesses. “And the sun,” he says, “will be changed into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and terrible DAY of the LORD’s COMING.” (Joel 2:31) . As far as the literal meaning of these words indicates, they seem to be more fitting for the SECOND ADVENT, for then the Lord will manifest himself publicly to ALL MEN, to the testimony of Scripture: “Then every eye will see him, and all the tribes of the earth and those who have crucified him will strike their breast.” (Rev. 1:7) … So the prophet foretold that the Savior would take care of their infirmities, and this prophecy is fulfilled in his time, as we see in the Gospel: “He really has borne our torpor, of our sufferings.” (Isa. 1:4) All these predictions have received their consummation and fulfillment in the Savior’s passion, and thus the SALVATION of the HUMAN RACE has been done in a true way for those who were on EARTH or in HELL, for the prophecy of Zachariah embraces both of them at once. On earth, men have been freed from the oppression of their enemies by the intervention of the mercy of God, and in HELL THEY were DELIVERED from the SORROWS THEY ENDURED. Indeed, all those who hoped in Christ who had been Promised to them awaited the coming of Him Who was to triumph over DEATH and DELIVER THEM from HELL. This is why Zechariah says: “To fulfill His mercies toward our fathers.” (Luke 1:72) But if it is understood that THIS SALVATION must also come in the SECOND ADVENT, … ” – Blessed Ambrosiaster (literally in Latin: “would-be Ambrose”), Roman Clergy active at Rome during the reign of Pope Damasus (c.366 AD – c. 384 AD, Written c. 366 – c. 384, Reply to Question 105, Commentary on the Gospel of Luke)

 

Source:

 

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/luke-commentary/ambrosiaster-questions-and-answers-on-the-gospel-of-luke

 

I repeat, who is he?

 

“… Ambrosiaster is the name given to the writer of a commentary on St Paul’s epistles, “brief in words but weighty in matter,” and valuable for the criticism of the Latin text of the New Testament.[1] The commentary itself was written during the papacy of Pope Damasus I, that is, between 366 and 384, and is considered an important document of the Latin text of Paul before the Vulgate of Jerome, and of the interpretation of Paul prior to Augustine of Hippo.[2] This commentary was erroneously attributed for a long time to St Ambrose….”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrosiaster

  1. Blessed St. Cyril of Jerusalem seems to attest that BELIEVING AFTER SEEING is POSSIBLE in HELL too

 

So it must be a type of non-Elect Salvation, right? [ Page 40 of the #LakeofFireBook ]

 

“… And if, like a Thomas, you were left out when the disciples were assembled to whom Christ shews Himself, when you do see Him be not faithless;4674 and if you do not believe, then believe those who tell you; and if you cannot believe them either, then have confidence in the print of the nails. If He DESCEND into HELL,4675 descend with Him. Learn to know the MYSTERIES of CHRIST THERE ALSO, what is the PROVIDENTIAL PURPOSE of the TWOFOLD DESCENT, to SAVE ALL MEN absolutely by His manifestation, OR THERE TOO ONLY THEM THAT BELIEVE ….” – Blessed St. Cyril, ArchBishop of Jerusalem, Doctor of the Church, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 313 AD – c. 386 AD, Point XXIV, Oration XLV. The Second Oration on Easter, via Philip Schaff, Page 641)

Source:

http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/1819-1893,_Schaff._Philip,_3_Vol_07_Cyril_Of_Jerusalem._Gregory_Nazianzen,_EN.pdf

 

Comment: The Word “MYSTERY” means “not every Christian will know this” while there is nothing limiting that to ‘those of the past only’ as in his sermon here as he seems to apply it to the “present” as though it is ‘still available’ at the time of Preaching. 

 

Maybe it’s this Verse:

 

“… 40And this is THE WILL OF HIM who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES THE SON AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE; and I will RAISE HIM UP at the LAST DAY.” …” (John 6:35 – 40, NKJV)

 

More regarding him in link here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Jerusalem

As usual let God Decide but we can speculate as to whether St. Cyril here is only speaking of a ‘one time event of Christ’s Descent’ or pointing to a Deeper “Mystery” that it occurs till “today”.  Difficult and Mysterious indeed.

More Church Fathers’ Quotes on  Possible “non-Elect Salvation” may be seen in Pages 74 to 99 in the #UnsolvedMysteryBook.  Peace to you

 

 

“… 18[i]For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, [j]God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19and if anyone TAKES AWAY FROM THE WORDS of the BOOK of THIS PROPHECY, God[k] shall TAKE AWAY HIS PART from the [l]BOOK OF LIFE, FROM THE HOLY CITY, and from the things which are written in this book. …” (Revelation 22:18 – 19, NKJV)

 

Comments:

 

1) In light of all these “Possibilities” and explanations, this is why I am very cautious especially when it comes to the ‘Book of Revelation’ interpretation. Why? Because if I say that it must be 100% this or that but if it turns out to be ‘false’ then those Curses described here (in Revelation 22:18 – 19) can apply (Let God Decide).

 

2) That is why by keeping it as a “POSSIBILITY” only, may God have Mercy if my interpretation is wrong because I already also demonstrate that I do “not” know for sure.

 

3) Though I am “not” sure, I still write this “POSSIBILITIES” because ‘you could be wrong’ and in such a case unless you admit your doctrine on it was a possibility too, you could risk these same Curses described here if you were wrong (in Revelation 22:18 – 19, let God Decide).

 

4) This is “not” a playing matter since the WARNING of being TAKEN OUT OF THE BOOK of LIFE  and FROM THE HOLY CITY  in Revelation 22:19 here means either “tossed into the Lake of Fire” or possibly if saved only on the FINAL NEW EARTH only but CANNOT ENTER HEAVEN or both (Let God Decide):

“… And anyone NOT FOUND WRITTEN in the BOOK OF LIFE was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE. … 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED ME THE [H]GREAT CITY, the [I]HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN from God,  …  27But there shall by NO MEANS ENTER IT anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE. …”  (Revelation 20:15, 21:10, 27,  NKJV)

 

Conclusion

Example of Uncertainty:

 

Recall: The “Bride” is “All Christians” and “Heavenly Jerusalem” is our common congregational dwelling according to these Verses:

 

“… 26but the JERUSALEM above is FREE, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL …” (Galatians 4:26, NKJV)

 

“… just as CHRIST also LOVED the CHURCH and gave Himself for her, 26that He might [g]SANCTIFY and cleanse her with the washing of water BY THE WORD, 27that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. … and the TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” 32This is a GREAT MYSTERY, but I speak CONCERNING CHRIST AND THE CHURCH …” (Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32, NKJV)

Note: Verse in Ephesians 5:32 above Reveals that the “Celestial/Heavenly ResurrectionBody to only belong to CHRISTIANS on the SOLE REASON that ONLY CHRISTIANS become ONE FLESH (Resurrection Flesh) with the LORD while the “TERRESTRIAL/Earthly Resurrection” seemed to be Promised to those “…. NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED …” (Revelation 21:24, NKJV) which also includes some (or all) who NEED HEALING FIRST from the LEAVES of the TREE OF LIFE as this Verse seems to point as “… The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 22:2, NKJV).

“… 39ALL FLESH IS NOT THE SAME FLESH, but there is one kind [f]of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. 40There are also [g]CELESTIAL BODIES and [h]TERRESTRIAL BODIES; but the GLORY of the CELESTIAL is one, and the GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42So also is the RESURRECTION of THE DEAD.  …” (1 Corinthians 15:39 – 42, NKJV)

 

In 1 Corinthians 15:39 – 42, it’s clear that there are two types of Resurrection bodies mentioned in the Context of the Resurrection of the Dead (1 Corinthians 15:42) namely the “Celestial” (Heavenly) Vs the “Terrestrial” (Earthly) of which I conjecture that the  Celestial one refers to Christians only because only they become one flesh with Christ (as Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32 Reveals) while the rest are only earthly bodies as Christ does “not” become One Flesh with them as it’s only towards His Bride.

 

Please also notice very carefully in 1 Corinthians 15:40 that two types of “Glory” are mentioned for the final Resurrection Bodies namely “but the GLORY of the CELESTIAL is one,” Vs ” and the GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another.” (in 1 Corinthians 15:40).

Now the word “Glory” in “… GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another …” (mentioned clearly in 1 Corinthians 15:40) in this Context of “Resurrection of the Dead” (1 Corinthians 15:42)  itself indicates that some of the of the TERRESTRIAL RESURRECTION BODIES are also “Saved” for it doesn’t seem logical for a body raised with “glory” to be “unsaved“. To say that this “Terrestrial Glory” ones refers to some lower Christians contradicts Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32 which describes Christ Sharing One Flesh with all Christians in some way and so they must be “CELESTIAL (Heavenly) RESURRECTION GLORY Bodies only“.

 

The “terrestrial/earthly body salvation” for some other “nations who are saved with kings of the earth” (the word ‘earth’ signifying ‘terrestrial salvation’ with ‘terrestrial body too’) may be revealed in Verses above as they Visit the Heavenly City toward only those who are Written in the Lamb’s Book of Life where ‘His Church/Bride is’ (Who Alone have Celestial Resurrection Heavenly Body).

 

Also some seemed to be healed only of the “Water of LifeFlowing out into the Final New Earth Possibly so that they can be ‘saved’ too just like those “leaves” from the Tree of Life described earlier (yes particularly only mentioned the ‘leaves part’ where whether it means literal or allegorical it does NOT matter at all since the ‘Principle’ remains the SAME namely for HEALING and RESTORATION to those who are applied to it – can you see it?).

 

Someone remarked:

‘… Good insight. The bride doesn’t need leaves so there might be another category of ppl saved-like u said… Makes sense …’

I can’t say anything for sure but Let God Decide.

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

How to Fulfill the Greatest Commandment to Love God then?

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161778676787784

 

Some Christians think that “Prayer and Worship” means they are LOVING CHRIST and Fulfilling the Greatest Command but while this is partly true it is incomplete because:

 

1) How much one loves God (The First and Greatest Commandment) is Proven by how much one love’s one’s neighbour i.e. by the Practice of the #CharityDoctrine Commands of Christ as CHRIST defined it such as we have seen prior, Verses:

 

“… 29JESUS answered him, “The [k]first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [l]This is the first commandment. 31And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is NO OTHER COMMANDMENT GREATER THAN THESE.” …” (Mark 12:29 – 31, NKJV)

 

Please notice carefully that when Teaching the Greatest Command Christ does NOT Teach it alone but couples it with the Love your neighbour 2nd Greatest Command.

 

Why? Because the second is the proof of the first as many Biblical scholars also have attested likewise.

 

If the first can be fulfilled independently or with another religious command such as praying or worship Christ would have revealed so but HE DID NOT and instead of these CHRIST ONLY COUPLED it with the LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR COMMAND which in CHRIST’S OWN DEFINITION is the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle only in Luke 10:25 – 37’s Parable of the Good Samaritan.

 

“… 20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, [d]how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. …” (1 John 4:20 – 21, NKJV)

Which “Love your brother action” is defined here as fulfillment for “LOVE GOD most“? Not feeling nor words but the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as the Verses from this same letter continues as follows:

 

“… 10In this the CHILDREN OF GOD and THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL are manifest: Whoever DOES NOT PRACTICE RIGHTEOUSNESS is not of God, NOR IS HE WHO DOES NOT LOVE HIS BROTHER. 11For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? BECAUSE HIS WORKS WERE EVIL AND HIS BROTHER’S RIGHTEOUS. … 16By this WE KNOW LOVE, because He laid down His life for us. And we also OUGHT TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR THE BRETHREN. 17But WHOEVER HAS THIS WORLD’S GOODS, and SEES HIS BROTHER IN NEED, AND SHUTS UP HIS HEART FROM HIM, HOW DOES THE LOVE OF GOD ABIDE IN HIM? 18My little children, let us NOT LOVE IN WORD or IN TONGUE, BUT IN DEED AND IN TRUTH …” (1 John 3: 10 – 12, 16 – 18, NKJV)

 

Even the strict “Apostle St. James” agrees and calls it the “Royal Law” and when he quotes it below he quotes it clearly also in the Context of the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle only for JUDGMENT DAY even  (can you see it please as it is Written? as Christ did NOT explain their way to fulfill this command at all proving either that it’s a fallacy of their to assume so or that it’s NOT the best Way as Described as this #CharityDoctrine as the “Fulfillment” of it in Verses quoted, not ‘unwritten opinions’):

 

“… 8If you really FULFILL the ROYAL LAW according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; … For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. 14What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [f]your works, and I will show you my faith by [g]my works. …” (James 2:8, 13 – 18, NKJV)

 

Note: The “WorksApostle St. James talks about in Verses above for “Faith not to be dead” is NOT your Church attendance nor any other religious act but ONLY REFERRING to the #CHARITYDOCTRINE act of “… but you DO NOT GIVE THEM THE THINGS WHICH ARE NEEDED FOR THE BODY, what does it profit? 17Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.  …” meaning either ‘Other Works are secondary or of no value unless if the #CharityDoctrine is also present’. Well Written Scripture cannot be false and so we Preach this likewise only.

Also please notice that Christ knew the ‘Surprised Sheep’ on Judgment Day (Matthew 25:31 – 36) even if that sheep may “not” have known Him fully or they may be theologically imperfect as they asked in Reply, “When did we see you Lord… etc.” but they all did the CHARITY DOCTRINE in response to ‘… when I was Hungry, Thirsty, Homeless, Naked, …’ (which is the “common ground” where Christ Declares that ‘He Knows them as His Sheep’ in those Verses clearly).

 

In short, the recognition part of the “Sheep” of Christ in Judgment Day Verses is their “Common Act” of “Charity Doctrine” in Matthew 25:31 – 46. Can you see it?

 

Without a “Doctrine of Love in Action (not words only)”, such “Faith” contradicts these Verses:

 

“…  6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE. 7YOU RAN WELL. Who hindered you from OBEYING THE TRUTH? 8This persuasion DOES NOT come FROM HIM who calls you. 9A little leaven leavens the whole lump. … THROUGH LOVE SERVE ONE ANOTHER. 14For ALL THE LAW IS FULFILLED in one word, even in this: “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR AS YOURSELF.”AGAINST SUCH THERE IS NO LAW ...” (Galatians 5:6 – 9, 13 – 14, 22, highlighted, NKJV)

 

Note: the “as yourself” part is the hardest.

 

The #CharityDoctrine Level Christ Required is as follows:

 

“… 32“But IF YOU LOVE THOSE WHO LOVE YOU, WHAT CREDIT IS THAT TO YOU? …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:32, NKJV)

 

“… WHAT DO YOU DO MORE THAN OTHERS? …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:47, NKJV)

 

“… 33And IF YOU DO GOOD TO THOSE WHO DO GOOD TO YOU, WHAT CREDIT IS THAT TO YOU?  …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:33, NKJV)

 

Yes, this GIVING which CHRIST TAUGHT DIRECTLY also INVOLVES GIVING MONEY as well to THE ENEMIES (in the Context of ‘those unthankful and EVIL too’) as per the phrase “… and LEND …” in Verses below by CHRIST HIMSELF:

 

“… 34And if YOU LEND to those from whom you HOPE TO RECEIVE BACK, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. 35But LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, DO GOOD, AND LEND, [h]HOPING FOR NOTHING IN RETURN; and YOUR REWARD WILL BE GREAT, and YOU WILL BE SONS OF THE MOST HIGH. For He is KIND to the UNTHANKFUL AND EVIL. 36Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:27 – 36, NKJV)

 

Note: If God Himself calls this “Reward” for Doing so as “Great”, isn’t it most valuable? God doesn’t simply call anything as “Great” and this “Reward” is called likewise and conditional to “Loving our enemies“. May He Help us to attain to some of it.

 

If all these filthy rags righteousness cannot be done even imperfectly, then Christ Wouldn’t have Commanded it and also He “Prophesies” in Luke 6:34 – 36 above that those who do it will be GREATLY REWARDED (so is He lying since you all claim that no one can do it or that all get same reward but Christ Clearly Points to a CONDITIONAL REWARD only if they can do THESE COMMANDS? – Can you see the man-made Doctrines you are following?)

 

Let’s just DO THE DEFINITION which HE GAVE already for the “… Love your neighbour 2nd Greatest Command of God …” in Luke 10:25 – 37 as the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle in the “Parable of the Good Samaritannot just toward those of the same race/ same religion / same denomination/ same family only as the “Samaritan” did it toward the “Jew” (who are culturally and religious-wise or denomination-wise enemies) in ‘His Own Description as it is Written’. Can you see it please as it is Written?

 

So if we Preach and do His Way, how can that be HERESY?

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Loving God more means Doing more of His Various New Testament Commands

 

“… IF YOU LOVE ME, KEEP [Obey] MY COMMANDMENTS. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:15, NKJV)

 

“… 23JESUS ANSWERED and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will KEEP MY WORD; and MY FATHER WILL LOVE HIM, and WE WILL COME TO HIM and MAKE OUR HOME WITH HIM. 24He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me. …” (John 14:23 – 24, NKJV)

 

“… 18And JESUS CAME AND SPOKE TO THEM, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. …” (Matthew 28:18 – 20, NKJV)

 

“… 19Whoever therefore BREAKS one of the LEAST of THESE COMMANDMENTS, and TEACHES men so, shall be called LEAST in the kingdom of HEAVEN; but whoever DOES AND TEACHES them, he shall be called GREAT in the kingdom of HEAVEN. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:19, NKJV)

 

3) His New Testament Commands includes only Written ones including New Testament Traditions but not man made unwritten rules no matter how sweet it sounds to please God

 

“… 13MAKING THE WORD OF GOD OF NO EFFECT THROUGH YOUR TRADITION which you have handed down. And many such things you do.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:13, NKJV)

 

“… If anyone THINKS himself to be a PROPHET or SPIRITUAL, let him ACKNOWLEDGE that the things which I WRITE TO YOU ARE THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD. …” (1 Corinthians 14:37, NKJV)

 

“… 2that YOU MAY BE MINDFUL OF THE WORDS which were spoken before by the holy prophets, AND OF THE COMMANDMENT OF [a]US, THE APOSTLES OF THE LORD AND SAVIOR, 3knowing this first: THAT SCOFFERS WILL COME IN THE LAST DAYS, …” (2 Peter 3:2,3, NKJV)

“… until the day when He was taken up to heaven, after He had by the HOLY SPIRIT GIVEN ORDERS to the apostles whom He had chosen. …” (Acts 1:2, NASB)

 

“… 6Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us NOT TO THINK BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN, that none of you may be [c]PUFFED UP ON BEHALF OF ONE AGAINST THE OTHER. 7For who [d]MAKES YOU DIFFER FROM ANOTHER? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it? …” (1 Corinthians 4:6 – 7, NKJV)

 

Self righteousness is doing things what is NOT WRITTEN and also DOING and SPEAKING AGAINST WHAT IS WRITTEN as CHRIST clearly Defined it in Verses below making “their WORSHIP VAIN” for following MAN MADE WAYS (those NOT WRITTEN):

 

“… Thus you have made the [b]COMMANDMENT OF GOD OF NO EFFECT BY YOUR TRADITION. 7HYPOCRITES! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8‘These people [c]DRAW NEAR TO ME WITH THEIR MOUTH, And HONOR ME WITH THEIR LIPS, But THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME. 9And IN VAIN THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES the COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.’ ” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 15:6 – 9, NKJV)

 

Conclusion

 

Christ Himself Emphasized the #Almsgiving or #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as part of the Real Righteousness He Required where even compared to Keeping all the “Holiness” Commands of the 10 Commandments, He Still implied that ALMSGIVING DOCTRINE is BETTER and WITHOUT IT OUTWARD HOLINESS is only a WHITEWASHED TOMB (so believing in Christ and not Teaching or doing this Charity Doctrine is DENYING HIM IN ACTION), Yes, NO CHURCH has the RIGHT TO IGNORE GOD’S WILL for JUSTICE and LOVE of GOD which is the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE with THEIR COLLECTION MONEY (in God’s Name or personal income by choice), Verses:

 

“… 25“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you CLEANSE THE OUTSIDE OF THE CUP and dish, but INSIDE THEY ARE FULL OF EXTORTION and [l]SELF-INDULGENCE. 26Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like WHITEWASHED TOMBS which indeed appear BEAUTIFUL OUTWARDLY, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28Even so you also OUTWARDLY APPEAR RIGHTEOUS TO MEN, but INSIDE YOU ARE FULL OF HYPOCRISY AND LAWLESSNESS. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 23:25 – 28, NKJV)

 

“… 39Then the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees make the OUTSIDE OF THE CUP and DISH CLEAN, but YOUR INWARD PART is full of [k]GREED and WICKEDNESS. 40FOOLISH ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also? 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. 42“But woe to you Pharisees! For YOU TITHE mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and PASS BY JUSTICE and the LOVE of GOD These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE. 43Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the [m]best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. 44Woe to you, [n]scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like graves which are not seen, and the men who walk over them are not aware of them.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 11:39 – 45, NKJV)

 

Comment: That should reveal to us that MONEY SINS are the “Worst there is” and it is also clear in the “lives of the Pharisees likewise” (whom Christ attacked vehemently) where CHRIST DOES NOT point once that the Pharisees committed “adultery, murder, witchcraft, idolatry,” BUT HE POINTED their “PROSPERITY SINS” (Christ’s Phrase “Self Indulgence” in Matthew 23:25) with “Tithe collecting” (for self survival) but NOT CARING for the ALMSGIVING (CHARITY DOCTRINE) and especially “not” with their money as even Luke 11:39 – 42 has clearly Described this Context in Christ’s Most Blessed Words as it is Written calling them “whitewashed tombs” (because ‘outwardly they were religious in praying, fasting and Church Attendance with NO adultery, NO Murder, NO Witchcraft, NO idolatry etc’).

 

The Phrase “…. These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE.  …” is inclusive of the ONLY RELIGIOUS ACT CHRIST MENTIONS HERE (Context as ‘it is Written) referring to “… 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. …” which is the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE which is a MUST for any TRUE CHRISTIAN (according to ‘Relative Measure‘, implied) as CHRIST DIDN’T SAY it is an “option” but a “requirement” as His Phrase here is:

 

“… These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE.  …”

 

and from “WHAT YOU HAVE” (meaning NOT money collected in the Name of God only and Neither are the Priests/Pastors exempt from it as the ‘Pharisees were such’).

 

In short,  ‘believing in Christ’ and ‘continuing living like that’ wouldn’t HAVE SAVED the PHARISEES either as “True believing in Christ would do these ALMSGIVING or CHARITY DOCTRINE as CHRIST WARNS here as the LOVE OF GOD and JUSTICE He Refers to” instead of “Prosperity” (Self-Indulgence) as these Pharisees did.

 

If all these New Testament Verses (many Directly by Christ) did “not” matter, He Wouldn’t have Spoken All these, right?

 

Please be careful of the #Antichrist Spirit which is all about #Lawlessness where he will seduce you to NOT LISTEN TO CHRIST’S WORDS so one fails to do the FATHER’S WILL and in the end get REEJECTED from ENTERING HEAVEN type of Salvation as CHRIST WARNED, Verses:

 

“… 14Because NARROW is the gate and DIFFICULT is the way which leads to life, and there are FEW who FIND IT … 21“NOT EVERYONE who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall ENTER the kingdom of HEAVEN, but he who DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN. 22MANY will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I NEVER KNEW YOU; depart from Me, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS!’ 24“Therefore WHOEVER HEARS THESE SAYINGS OF MINE, and DOES THEM, I will liken him to a WISE MAN WHO BUILT HIS HOUSE ON THE ROCK: …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (Matthew 7:21 – 24, NKJV)

 

Believing Him is only when we DO HIS WORDS (as Matthew 7:24 above Reveals) and CONVERSIONS of MANY are REJECTED here because ‘converting is not doing His Will’ unless it fulfills HIS COMMANDS.

 

Where is the threshold?

 

Let God Decide.

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds Difficult?

 

Yes, “no” easy faith exists as Christ already Warned because His Commands are difficult (same Context as He Spoke both Matthew 7:14 and Matthew 7:24 in this same conversation):

 

“… 14Because NARROW is the gate and DIFFICULT is the way which leads to life, and there are FEW who FIND IT … 24“Therefore WHOEVER HEARS THESE SAYINGS OF MINE, and DOES THEM, I will liken him to a WISE MAN WHO BUILT HIS HOUSE ON THE ROCK: …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (Matthew 7:14,s 24, NKJV)

 

Can you see which part is NARROW and DIFFICULT which CHRIST MEANTS that it POINTS ONLY to HIS COMMANDS in HIS OWN WORDS?

 

No one with the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD will complain about the Difficulty of His Commands because HIS SPIRIT HELPS THEM FULFILL it , Verses:

 

“… 15“If YOU LOVE ME, [d]KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]HELPER, that He may ABIDE WITH YOUR FOREVER— 17the SPIRIT of TRUTH, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.  …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:15 – 17, NKJV)

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

Mystery of COMMANDS for Eternal Life by CHRIST – Conclusion

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161774348742784

 

Example Question 1

 

Two things only needed for assured salvation. First faith in holy god as depicted in the first 4 commandments. Second be holy for god is holy as outlined in the remaining 6 commandments. Search god not researching god. Who are we to research him

 

Reply 1

 

Your reply is only partly right.

 

Please consider carefully “what Christ Said in FULL” (let’s not ‘research Him’ as you said rightly but added and removed His Words) as described below:

 

Details:

 

“… 16Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[d] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17So He said to him, [e]“Why do you call Me good? [f]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” 20The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [g]from my youth. What do I still lack?” 21JESUS said to him, “IF you want to be PERFECT, go, SELL what YOU HAVE and GIVE to the POOR, and YOU WILL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN; and come, FOLLOW ME.” 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away SORROWFUL, for he had GREAT POSSESSIONS. …” (Matthew 19:16 – 22, NKJV)

 

 

 

1) Removing

 

Your reply removed the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as the WAY TO FULFILL “the Love your neighbour as yourself part …” as it is the Reply Christ Gave for “What to DO for ETERNAL LIFE?” because you didn’t mention it claiming the 10 commandments is enough. Verses:

 

“… 25And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?” 26He said to him, “What is WRITTEN IN THE LAW? What is YOUR READING OF IT?” 27So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ ” 28And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.” 29But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And WHO IS MY NEIGHBOR?” 30Then JESUS ANSWERED and said: “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 31Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side. 33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had COMPASSION. 34So he went to him and BANDAGED HIS WOUNDS, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and TOOK CARE OF HIM. 35On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, ‘TAKE CARE OF HIM; and WHATEVER MORE YOU SPEND, when I come again, I WILL REPAY YOU.’ 36So which of these three do you think was NEIGHBOR to him who fell among the thieves? 37And he said, “He who SHOWED MERCY on him.” Then JESUS SAID to him, “GO AND DO LIKEWISE.”…” (Luke 10:25 – 37, NKJV)

 

2) Adding and Removing

 

You added 9 Commandments which are “not” part of the Greatest Commandment Set and removed the “Love your neighbour” Command quoting only the 10 Commandments.

 

Indeed, The Two Greatest Commandments are “not” 9 of the 10 commandments excluded and the “non 10 commandment’ but a ‘by law’ called “Love your neighbour as yourself” (Leviticus 19:18) instead is part of it ONLY which Verses above in Luke 10:25 – 37 Reveal it as the #CharityDoctrine only BY CHRIST HIMSELF:

 

“… 29JESUS answered him, “The [k]first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [l]This is the first commandment. 31And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is NO OTHER COMMANDMENT GREATER THAN THESE.” …” (Mark 12:29 – 31, NKJV)

 

So if you could please ‘just Obey Him or Preach what He Said here for Eternal Life’ which is the Commandments mentioned here inclusive of this #CharityDoctrine whether or not we understand it fully, then you can claim to ‘not research Him and Know Him’ because KNOWING HIM is TO DO AND PREACH WHAT HE SAID for THIS CONTEXT (Question) which clearly you only have a “part correct reply” due to indoctrination of your Churches you attend which DO NOT PREACH CHRIST’S WORDS HERE in FULL as IT IS WRITTEN.

 

Example Question 2

 

Jesus spoke in the context of Law of Moses that was given to the Jews that is before Grace was manifested

 

Reply 2

 

That’s wrong and a common fallacy.  Here’s what Christ actually Said:

 

1) Your own words condemn you. Here’s how:

 

“…. Jesus spoke in the context of Law of Moses that was given to the Jews that is before Grace was manifested …” excluded the “… love your neighbour part …” for the Reply for Eternal Life, then the “… 10 Commandments part also NO NEED to OBEY …” .

 

Can you see it?

 

We either take all of Christ’s Words there for New Testament Obedience as Fruit of Eternal Life or take NONE of it. Christ DID NOT Pick and Choose His Reply there and even in this simple explanation, it reveals how easily you have been deceived.

 

I mean, if these answers were ONLY for LAW of MOSES context for “Old Testament” as your churches taught you, then the 10 Commandment Keeping Christ Mentioned here is only for that same LAW of MOSES context for “Old Testament” . Can you see it?

 

So no need to keep the 10 Commandments part which Christ Quoted here either if ‘your Context’ argument is true. See the absurdity?

 

Luke 10:25 – 37’s Charity Doctrine Command is by CHRIST detailing HOW HE WANTS us TO FULFILL the “… Love your neighbour as yourself …” part for ETERNAL LIFE which in Matthew 19:16 – 30 He didn’t detail out (since no one ask for the details there – Can you see it?).

 

So all these applies for the New Covenant for ETERNAL LIFE as Mark 12:29 – 32 Reveals further that the Two Greatest Commandments includes this #CharityDoctrine part for it fulfills the “… Love your neighbour as yourself …” part by Relative Measure as even the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus Reveals too (Luke 16:19 – 31).

 

2) Also, in Matthew 19, the Conversation did “not” end there as detailed below:

 

“… 27Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have LEFT ALL and FOLLOWED YOU. Therefore what shall we have?” 28So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the REGENERATION, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And EVERYONE who has LEFT HOUSES or brothers or sisters or father or mother or WIFE or children or LANDS, for MY NAME’S SAKE, shall RECEIVE a HUNDREDFOLD, and INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE. 30But MANY who are FIRST will be LAST, and the LAST FIRST. …” (Matthew 19:27 – 30, NKJV)

 

So you can see that His Reply was in the Context of Christian Salvation during the “REGENERATION” (Resurrection, Revelation 20:4 – 6, Luke 20:34 – 36) and so the Context of His Answer earlier in Matthew 19:16 – 30 (all of it) applies for this New Testament.

 

 

 

 

Please don’t be deceived by “your churcheswhich pick and choose lest Christ Call it #Lawlessness and Risk getting Denied (as per Matthew 7:20 – 24) despite converting MANY by “… Prophesying, Casting out demons, and miracles ….” since the Context for Obeying these Particular Commands Christ Described including the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as fulfillment of the 2nd Greatest Command of God ever  the “… Love your neighbour as yourself  …” as Luke 10:25 – 37 Reveals “clearly” as it is Written is the CONTEXT for #EternalLife whether or not we understand “how” (this part doesn’t matter at all).

 

It cannot be that the “Second Greatest Command” (Mark 12:29 – 32 Defines it First) referring only to the “… Love your neighbour as yourself  …” part as Luke 10:25 – 37 in CHRIST’S DEFINITION Revealed as the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle  “for ETERNAL LIFE Context” is ‘skipped’ for “Eternal Life” according to “your pastors/your churches” but the ‘lesser Commands’ (not part of these Two Greatest, i.e. the ‘other 9 Commandments’ are included for Eternal Life’).

 

 #CharityDoctrine is “Love (Agape, God’s Love) in Action” as 1 John 3:16 – 18 Reveals.

 

See the “absurdity of their theology” and how it “contradictsCHRIST’S WORDS DIRECTLY?

 

As to whether the “… Love your neighbour 2nd Greatest Command of God …” can be fulfilled WITHOUT the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle, let’s recall your words of wisdom which is ‘… Who are we to research him …’ because THAT FULFILLING IT IN ANOTHER WAY PART IS NOT WRITTEN in ANY OF CHRIST’S WORDS WHEN HE QUOTED THIS VERSE and so ‘let’s not research His Reply’. Can you see it?

 

Let’s just DO THE DEFINITION which HE GAVE already for the “… Love your neighbour 2nd Greatest Command of God …” in Luke 10:25 – 37 as the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle in the “Parable of the Good Samaritannot just toward those of the same race/ same religion / same denomination/ same family only as the “Samaritan” did it toward the “Jew” (who are culturally and religious-wise or denomination-wise enemies) in ‘His Own Description as it is Written’. Can you see it please as it is Written?

 

 

 

 

 

So if we Preach and do His Way, how can that be HERESY?

 

Nonsense. Also, if there was another way of fulfilling this “… Love your neighbour 2nd Greatest Command of God …” can be fulfilled WITHOUT the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle as some of your pastors/churches claim, then why did CHRIST DID NOT EXPLAIN IT?

 

For they claim also that if anything is important it must be in the Bible and Christ did NOT explain their way to fulfill this command at all proving either that it’s a fallacy of theirs to assume so or that it’s NOT the best Way as Described as this #CharityDoctrine as the “Fulfillment” of it.

 

Best is, Apostle St. Paul himself has approved that this is equivalent to fulfilling ALL LAW (whatever of the 9 ‘other 10 Commandments’ or your ‘Church’s man-made NOT Written Commands or ways’ too) which are “not” necessary but this is:

 

“… For the WHOLE LAW is FULFILLED in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”…” (Galatians 5:14, NASB)

 

If your Church is doing it, Great! Please remember Relative Measure because God Counts (e.g. Luke 21:1 – 3, Luke 12:46 – 48) and CONDEMNS too based on this aspect of lifestyle as the only literal  description of Hell in Scripture in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus Revealed likewise (Luke 16:19 – 31).

 

 

We Preach these as it is Written.

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

Doctrinal Stance to avoid Division

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161774201507784

 

Division is part of heresy, Verses (1 Corinthians 11:17 – 19):

 

New King James Version

17Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are DIVISIONS among you, and in part I believe it. 19For there must also be FACTIONS among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you.

 

New American Standard Bible

17Now in giving this next instruction I do not praise you, because you come together not for the better, but for the worse. 18For, in the first place, when you come together [m]as a church, I hear that [n]DIVISIONS exist among you; and in part I believe it. . 19For there also have to be FACTIONS among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.

 

How do we ensure we are not part of heresy?

 

Right on. That’s why I don’t separate myself to particular denominations only . On the parts I agree with a denomination I welcome to be with them and with the parts I don’t agree, I leave it to God.

 

I don’t do “Churchism” because “divisions” is one of the things warned in Scripture and so the proof is to mingle with any Mainstream Denomination especially Protestant Mainstream denominations and especially Church Fathers who did not Pray to Virgin Mary and their writings for possibilities of Doctrine.

 

 

 

Even Church Fathers who Prayed to Virgin Mary could be right on other Doctrinal points as it did not originate with them but from those before them before they added Many new things by the latter ones which if it’s not Written, we cannot be condemned as Scripture already approved the #SafeRouteScripturally to NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN in Verses below:

 

“… 6Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us NOT TO THINK BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN, that none of you may be [c]puffed up on behalf of one against the other. 7For who [d]MAKES YOU DIFFER FROM ANOTHER? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it? … 14I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you. 15For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16Therefore I URGE YOU, IMITATE ME. 17For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I TEACH EVERYWHERE IN EVERY CHURCH.  …” (1 Corinthians 4:6 – 17, NKJV)

 

Conclusion

 

[to quote from Page 29 of the #EternalHellAnnihilationandUniversalismBook]

 

This is not an opinion but seems more like a “Prophecy” below which may explain this truth which is by St. Clement of Rome himself:

 

“… Who then among you is NOBLE-MINDED? who compassionate? who FULL OF LOVE? Let him declare, “IF ON MY ACCOUNT SEDITION and DISAGREEMENT AND SCHISMS HAVE ARISEN, I WILL DEPART, I WILL GO AWAY whithersoever you desire, and I WILL DO WHATEVER THE MAJORITY COMMANDS; only let the flock of Christ live on terms of peace with the presbyters set over it.” HE THAT ACTS THUS SHALL PROCURE TO HIMSELF GREAT GLORY IN THE LORD; and EVERY PLACE WILL WELCOME HIM. For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof.” These things they WHO LIVE A GODLY LIFE, that is NEVER TO BE REPENTED OF, BOTH HAVE DONE AND ALWAYS WILL DO. … ” – Blessed St. Clement of Rome, an Apostolic Father being a direct Disciple of the Blessed Apostle St. Peter (c.35 AD – c. 99 AD, 1 Clement Chapter 54)

Source:  http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/1clement-roberts.html

 

and this “Prophecy” too [from Page 263 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]:

 

First Christianity Quote already Prophesied even His Church Ministry will be full of such Bias to quote (but the “sin is not small“):

 

“… We are of opinion, therefore, that those appointed by them, or afterwards by other eminent men, with the consent of the whole Church, and who have blame-lessly served the flock of Christ in a humble, peaceable, and disinterested spirit, and have for a long time possessed the good opinion of all, cannot be justly dismissed from the ministry. FOR OUR SIN WILL NOT BE SMALL, if we eject from the episcopate those who have blamelessly and holily fulfilled its duties. Blessed are those presbyters who, having finished their course before now, have obtained a fruitful and perfect departure [from this world]; for they have no fear lest any one deprive them of the place now appointed them. But WE SEE THAT YOU HAVE REMOVED SOME MEN OF EXCELLENT BEHAVIOUR FROM THE MINISTRY, WHICH THEY FULFILLED BLAMELESSLY and WITH HONOUR. Ye are fond of contention, brethren, and FULL OF ZEAL ABOUT THINGS which DO NOT PERTAIN TO SALVATION. LOOK CAREFULLY INTO THE SCRIPTURES, which are the TRUE UTTERANCES OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Observe that nothing of an unjust or counterfeit character is written in them. …” – Blessed St. Clement of Rome, an Apostolic Father being a direct Disciple of the Blessed Apostle St. Peter (c.35 AD – c. 99 AD, 1 Clement, Chapter 44 – 45)

 

Source:   http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/1clement-roberts.html

 

Note: This same “1 Clement” Book quoted above as “Prophecy” was part of the “Book in the Bibles” for many “early Churches” in case you didn’t know where the later guys only were unsure. Example Quote:

 

“… The epistle was publicly read from time to time in Corinth, and by the 4th century this usage had spread to other churches. It was included in the 5th century Codex Alexandrinus, which contained the entire Old and New Testaments.[18] It was included with the Gospel of John in the fragmentary early Greek and Akhmimic Coptic papyrus designated Papyrus 6. First Clement is listed as canonical in “Canon 85” of the Canons of the Apostles, showing that First Clement had canonical rank in at least some regions of early Christendom. Ibn Khaldun also mentions it as part of the New Testament,[19] suggesting that the book may have been in wide and accepted use in either 14th century Spain or Egypt.[ …” Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Epistle_of_Clement

 

Peace to you

Non Elect Salvation Possibility after Death via Believing after Seeing

 

 

Source for images (Page 10 via ArchBishop Hilarion Alfeyev):

https://stjamesorthodox.org/files/articles/Bishop-Hilarion—Christ-the-Conqueror-of-Hades.pdf

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161771798342784

 

1) West vs East Christian Traditions

As per the Writing in image by one of the Eastern “Orthodox” Christian Archbishop, it’s the Western Christianity (“Roman Catholic”) which believes that “no” Salvation is possible after death but the “Eastern Orthodox Christianity” believes “some” may have such a hope among those who died “unbelieving”.

 

Example Quote:

 

“… Besides, according to the teaching of the Orthodox Church, the fate of a person after death can be changed through the prayer of the Church. Thus, existence after death has its own dynamics … We do not know if every one followed Christ when He rose from hell. Nor do we know if every one will follow Him to the eschatological Heavenly Kingdom when He will become ‘all in all’. But we do know that since the descent of Christ into Hades the way to resurrection has been opened for ‘all flesh’, salvation has been granted to every human being, and the gates of paradise have been opened for all those who wish to enter through them. This is the faith of the Early Church inherited from the first generation of Christians and cherished by Orthodox Tradition. This is the never-extinguished hope of all those who believe in Christ Who once and for all conquered death, destroyed hell and granted resurrection to the entire human race.  …” – ArchBishop Hilarion Alfeyev (Russian Orthodox Church from the same source link in image, page 11)

 

 

 

 

I think that if this Eastern Tradition is true, then such a Salvation must be “non-Elect” as it is “believing after seeing” and could refer to the “nations who are saved” with “earthly bodily resurrection glory” as opposed to the “Elect (Christian) Salvation” which is with “Heavenly Bodily Resurrection” in contrast, example Verses:

 

“… 39ALL FLESH IS NOT THE SAME FLESH, but there is one kind [f]of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. 40There are also [g]CELESTIAL BODIES and [h]TERRESTRIAL BODIES; but the GLORY of the CELESTIAL is one, and the GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42So also is the RESURRECTION of THE DEAD.  …” (1 Corinthians 15:39 – 42, NKJV)

 

Comments:

 

  1. i) CELESTIAL BODIES = relates or belong to “Heavenly bodies” (Christian Resurrection Bodies)

 

  1. ii) TERRESTRIAL BODIES = relates to “earthly bodies” (some non-Christians who are saved’s resurrection bodies)

 

iii) Also the phrase here in 1 Corinthians 15:42 comparing these two types of Glory of Celestial (Heavenly) Vs Terrestrial (Earthly) as “another” clearly implies that these are speaking of two classes of Resurrection Bodies distinctly where the word “Glory” indicates these are among the “saved” most likely.

 

“… Come, I will show you the [g]BRIDE, the LAMB’S WIFE.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED ME THE [H]GREAT CITY, the [I]HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN from God,  … 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE. …” (Revelation 21:8 – 10, 24 – 27, NKJV)

 

 

Comments:

 

  1. The “terrestrial/earthly body salvation” for some other “nations who are saved with kings of the earth” (the word ‘earth’ signifying ‘terrestrial salvation’ with ‘terrestrial body too’) may be revealed in Verses above as they Visit the Heavenly City toward only those who are Written in the Lamb’s Book of Life where ‘His Church/Bride is’ (Who Alone have Celestial Resurrection Heavenly Body).

 

  1. Some may be Saved but “not” enter Heaven nor inherit it type of Salvation is possible based on these Bible Verses

 

Let God Decide as I am “not” sure of this part 100%.

 

2) Other Bible Verses in support of “Eternal Life” given to those who “DID GOOD [Works]” in their “lifetime” but Saved only on JUDGMENT DAY

 

“… 28Do not marvel at this; for the HOUR IS COMING in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29and come forth—those who have DONE GOOD, to the RESURRECTION of LIFE, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:28 – 29, NKJV)

 

Note: I have discussed this ‘Possibility’ in Page 594 onward in the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook .

 

Comments:

 

  1. Please notice that it is CHRIST HIMSELF Who Gives this Criteria of “DOING GOOD [Works & Living/Holiness]” as the ones whom HE WILL GRANT ETERNAL LIFE by HIS MERCY/HIS DECISION.

 

 

 

 

  1. Please notice carefully that for this “Resurrection” meant 1000 years after the “First Resurrection” (1000 years later, Verse below in Revelation 20:5) applies because this Verse in John 5:28 – 29 Speaks of ‘all those remaining in their graves’ at that future time (since they have “not” participated in the First Resurrection) who may attain to this which is based on “GOOD WORKS” as CHRIST Reveals above:

 

 

“… But THE REST OF THE DEAD DID NOT LIVE AGAIN until the THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED. This is the first resurrection. …” (Revelation 20:5, NKJV)

 

 

“… And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. …”(Daniel 12:2, NKJV)

 

 

 

3) Judgment Day Salvation Context by Blessed Apostle St. Paul

 

Another Verse for this same Timeline is revealed by Blessed Apostle St. Paul too as he describes “Judgment Day” to include some who only attain Salvation at this end of 1000 years as follows:

 

“…  5But in accordance with YOUR HARDNESS and your [a]impenitent heart you are [b]treasuring up for yourself wrath in the DAY OF WRATH and REVELATION of the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT OF GOD, 6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: ETERNAL LIFE to those who by PATIENT CONTINUANCE IN DOING GOOD SEEK FOR GLORY, HONOR and IMMORTALITY;  8but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9tribulation and anguish, on EVERY SOUL OF MAN who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the [c]Greek; 10but glory, honor, and peace to EVERYONE WHO WORKS WHAT IS GOOD, TO THE JEW FIRST AND ALSO TO THE GREEK [Gentiles]. 11For there is NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD. 12For as many as have SINNED WITHOUT THE LAW will also PERISH WITHOUT LAW, and as many as have SINNED IN THE LAW WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW 13(for NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST IN THE SIGHT OF GOD, BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW WILL BE JUSTIFIED;  …” (Romans 2:5 – 13, NKJV)

 

Comments:

 

  1. Please notice carefully that the Verses above are important to understand because they Reveal the “Righteous Judgment of God” and it Speaks of “Judgment Day/Day of Wrath” Context to ‘every man’ which with Revelation 20:5 puts it 1000 years after the Christian First Resurrection since some sinners/mortals also exist during the Millennial Reign as Isaiah 65:20-KJV or even Revelation 20:6 – 9 Describes this one last rebellion against God too.

 

  1. In other words, “Judgment Day” can only happen when all human beings cease to be born/created.

 

iii. Verse 9 reveals that some will be condemned on Judgment Day while in contrast Verse 10 reveals that some will be SAVED ONLY on JUDGMENT DAY —> Different from those saved in the First Resurrection 1000 years earlier —> so that’s why I call this the “possible” NON-ELECT SALVATION.

 

  1. Verse 9 and 10 also Proves “FREE CHOICE” clearly because if they cannot choose to do evil vs good, then it’s a logical fallacy here in that God is Granting them ETERNAL LIFE vs CONDEMNATION (JUDGMENT) based on something they “cannot” do by “their will“.

 

  1. Verse 5 and Verse 9 connected also proves that their “condemnation” on those who “do evil” is by their “own” choice as the word “your” exists in Original Koine Greek Bible especially for Verse 5 proving “free choice” yet again. In contrast, Verse 10 speaks of those with “Free Choice who CHOSE to do GOOD” under God’s Influence of His Will as I have described that GOD CAN WORK A GOOD WORK in a NON-CHRISTIAN or UNBELIEVER even to the point that person will NEVER KNOW even (but may be Revealed here on Judgment Day to be ‘Saved’ by His Touch of Mercy likewise) as I have discussed the details in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook on Pages 958 onward. Example Quote from these pages:

 

They are not Saved by Works but God’s Mercy as they get a chance to believe after seeing as John 6:40 may point to this Hope being available till the “Last Day or Judgment Day”.

 

 

 

The fact that they did their acts of Mercy toward Christians in their lives prior whilst being unbelievers may point to God’s Mercy on them as even the Famous Bible Case of King Cyrus of Persia Reveals where Cyrus was used by God as a “Messiah” (the only Gentile ever given this title in the Bible, Isaiah 45:1) to do Acts of Mercy toward the Jews by setting them free from their earthly oppressors (Isaiah 45:1- 6) where the best Context part is that Cyrus did NOT EVEN KNOW THE TRUE GOD at all whilst doing this nor after doing this as per history and as the Verse Reads for this part as, “… THERE IS NO GOD BESIDES ME. I WILL GIRD YOU, THOUGH YOU HAVE NOT KNOWN ME, …” (Isaiah 45:5, NKJV).

 

 

So similarly, these “Surprised Sheep or Gentiles who are Saved on Judgment Day” may have done their acts of Mercy toward Christians by giving them business or helping them financially or with this World’s Goods by God’s Move as He Did with Cyrus, King of Persia and thus may be given the chance to believe after seeing the Risen Christ somewhere between now and the Last Day (as John 6:40 can mean this; please see end of this write up for this).

 

 

 

  1. Example “Orthodox” quote in support of my ‘possibility claim’ above:

 

 

“… According to the TEACHING of the ORTHODOX CHURCH, ALL THE DEAD, whether believers or non-believers, appear before God. Therefore, even for THOSE WHO DID NOT BELIEVE DURING THEIR LIFETIME, there is HOPE THAT THEY WILL RECOGNIZE GOD AS THEIR SAVIOR AND REDEEMER IF THEIR PREVIOUS LIFE ON EARTH LED them to this RECOGNITION …” – ArchBishop Hilarion Alfeyev

 

Source (Page 10):

 

https://stjamesorthodox.org/files/articles/Bishop-Hilarion—Christ-the-Conqueror-of-Hades.pdf

 

 

 

vii. Possible Bible Verses for ‘Believing after seeing’

 

“… 35And JESUS said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall NEVER THIRST. 36But I said to you that YOU HAVE SEEN ME and YET DO NOT BELIEVE. 37All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39This is the WILL OF THE FATHER who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should RAISE IT UP at the LAST DAY. 40And this is THE WILL OF HIM who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES THE SON AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE; and I will RAISE HIM UP at the LAST DAY.” …” (John 6:35 – 40, NKJV)

 

“… And as MOSES LIFTED UP the SERPENT in the wilderness, even so must the SON OF MAN BE LIFTED UP, 15that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM should [c]NOT PERISH but have ETERNAL LIFE. …” (John 3:14 – 15, NKJV)

 

viii. Verses 11 to 13 in Romans 2 here seem to contrast that only those who DO THE LAW (Actions as Proof) are JUSTIFIED (Saved).

 

This could be a reason why some Christians are rejected from life based on Matthew 7:20 – 24 or even Hebrews 6:4 – 8 because despite Converting MANY based on “CASTING OUT DEMONS, PROPHESYING, MIRACLES” they did NOT PRACTICE HIS WRITTEN COMMANDS/LAW hence became #lawless in some aspects (let God Decide).

 

I often wondered (and hope that these ‘fallen Christians’) may at least be saved on Judgment Day likewise in this ‘non-Elect Salvation possibility’ (if true) as the phrase “… APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION WITH THE UNBELIEVERS.  …” (Luke 12:46, NKJV) may mean AFTER JUDGMENT first and that’s why we encourage Christians too to Practice this #CharityDoctrineLifestyle to be Scripturally Safe based on all these quoted Verses.

 

Can you see it?

 

(Our pointing of their faults is so that they be ‘safe’ which is for their own good only)

 

 

  1. Context

 

A “PossibleCommon Fallacy in popular Christian Exegesis is that most view Romans 2:5 – 13 earlier as referring to “only” those who did “not” hear the Gospel before by quoting the next set of Verses in Romans 2:14 – 16 as follows (but is this true?)

 

“…  14for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. …” (Romans 2:14 – 16, NKJV)

 

Comments:

 

  1. a) All Christians agree that the word “LAW” here in Romans 2:14 – 16 includes “GOSPEL” since they usually claim (rightly so) that these set of Verses refer to those who NEVER HEARD the GOSPEL CASE and so the word “LAW must INCLUDE GOSPEL context too”.

 

  1. b) These Verses in Romans 2:14 – 16 clearly Speak of those who NEVER heard of the LAW/GOSPEL ONLY. Right. I agree.

 

  1. c) But the Verses earlier in Romans 2:5 -13 was NOT speaking of those who NEVER HEARD of the GOSPEL/LAW only but ALSO of THOSE WHO HEARD the GOSPEL/LAW.

 

Can you see it? Example Verse quote for emphasis:

 

“… 11For there is NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD. 12For as many as have SINNED WITHOUT THE LAW will also PERISH WITHOUT LAW, and as many as have SINNED IN THE LAW WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW 13(for NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST IN THE SIGHT OF GOD, BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW WILL BE JUSTIFIED; …” (Romans 2:11 – 13, NKJV)

 

 

c.i. The phrase “…  as many as have SINNED WITHOUT THE LAW will also PERISH WITHOUT LAW …” = Those without the GOSPEL/LAW perish under the CONDITION if they SINNED against it.

 

c.ii. The phrase “… as many as have SINNED IN THE LAW WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW 13(for NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST IN THE SIGHT OF GOD, BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW WILL BE JUSTIFIED; …” = Those who have heard of the LAW/GOSPEL are likewise JUDGED based on what they have heard and if they DO THE LAW/GOSPEL Commands, they have a ‘possibility’ to be JUSTIFIED.

 

Can you see it?

 

c.iii. Where is the Threshold for Justification? Let God Decide since even “Christians” with terrible sins may be “saved without reward too” if they likewise have some type of ‘minimum obedience likewise’ as the ‘saved by fire case’ described in Verse below could apply likewise to either Christians or those Generally above simply because as Verse 11 here Reveals that there is NO partiality with God:

 

“… 14If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, HE WILL RECEIVE A REWARD. 15If anyone’s WORK IS BURNED, HE WILL SUFFER LOSS; but HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, YET SO AS THROUGH FIRE.  …” (1 Corinthians 3:14 – 15, NKJV)

 

4) Has God ever Accepted the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle of any “Unbeliever“?

 

Yes here are two examples of “Cornelius” (in the New Testament) before he became a Christian itself and King Nebuchadnezzar (in the Old Testament) who “never” became a believer as far as I know  in the CONTEXT of THEIR SINS BEING NOT JUDGED due to the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle lived, VERSES:

 

  1. i) Cornelius

 

“… 1There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian [a]Regiment, 2a devout man and one who FEARED GOD with all his household, who GAVE ALMS GENEROUSLY to the people, and PRAYED to GOD ALWAYS. 3About [c]the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, “Cornelius!” 4And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, “What is it, lord?” So he said to him, “Your prayers and YOUR ALMS [Charity] have come up for a memorial before God. 5Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is Peter. 6He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea. He[d] will tell you what you must do.” 7And when the angel who spoke to him had departed, Cornelius called two of his household servants and a devout soldier from among those who waited on him continually. 8So when he had explained all these things to them, he sent them to Joppa. 30So Cornelius said, “Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing, 31and said, ‘Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and YOUR ALMS [Charitable Giving] are remembered in the sight of God. …” (Acts  10:1 – 8, 30 – 31, NKJV)

 

This Verse about Cornelius seems to be extended ‘generally’ too:

 

“… 34Then PETER opened his mouth and said: “In TRUTH I perceive that GOD shows no partiality. 35But in EVERY NATION WHOEVER FEARS HIM and WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS is ACCEPTED BY HIM. …” (Acts 10:34 – 35, NKJV)

 

Note: The usage of “God” here is in general as Apostle St. Peter is speaking of ‘people who have never heard of the Gospel nor of Christ too’ (Context here in reply to Cornelius).

 

Which “work of righteousness” does the BIBLE specifically point to that “Cornelius did” (in this Context, the other definitions are possible but this DEFINITION OF FEARING GOD is FIRST as IT IS WRITTEN)?

 

  1. GAVE ALMS GENEROUSLY to the people,

 

  1. and PRAYED to GOD ALWAYS

 

(The Bible Writes it in order above),

 

 

 

 

  1. ii) Blessed Prophet Daniel’s advice for ‘removal of Judgment of sins via the #CharityDoctrine’ to King Nebuchadnezzar

 

“… Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and BREAK OFF THY SINS BY RIGHTEOUSNESS, and THINE INIQUITIES BY SHEWING MERCY TO THE POOR; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity. …” – Blessed and Holy Prophet Daniel (Daniel 4:27, KJV based on the Masoretic Text)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/daniel/4-27.htm

 

Compare:

 

” … 27Therefore, O king, let my counsel please thee, and ATONE FOR THY SINS BY ALMS, and THINE INIQUITIES BY COMPASSION ON THE POOR: it may be God will be long-suffering to thy trespasses.” … – Blessed and Holy Prophet Daniel (Daniel 4:27, Brenton Septuagint Translation, based on the Septuagint or LXX)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/daniel/4.htm

 

5) Mystery Part from the Shepherd of Hermas Possible Scripture regarding this Possibility that non-Christians who lived righteous with Good works getting some type of Salvation in the Spirit World even AFTER CHRIST’S DESCENT with the APOSTLES DESCENDING in the SPIRIT WORLD likewise to possible PREACH the GOSPEL in all the WORLD (“Kosmos“) as Mark Records:

 

“… [15And He said to them], “Go into ALL the WORLD [2889 [e] kosmon κόσμον] and PREACH THE GOSPEL to every creature. 16He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.  …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 16:15 – 16, NKJV)

 

How can such be Saved in the afterlife if they are not Baptized?

 

 

To quote from the ‘Scripture’ of the ‘Shepherd of Hermas’ that those being Saved in the Spirit World have Some type of ‘Water Baptism’ (either Symbolically or Allegorically) as Mysteriously put in Verse below toward ‘relatively good non-Christians who are dead’ who BELIEVE AFTER SEEING ONLY:

 

“… 15[92]:1 “Show me still further, Sir,” say I. “What desirest thou to know besides?” saith he. “Wherefore, Sir,” say I, “did the stones come up from the deep, and wherefore were they placed into the building, though they bore these spirits?” 15[92]:2 “It was necessary for them,” saith he, “to rise up through water, that they might be made alive; for otherwise they could not enter into the kingdom of God, except they had put aside the deadness of their [former] life. 15[92]:3 So these likewise that had fallen asleep received the seal of the Son of God and entered into the kingdom of God. For before a man,” saith he, “has borne the name of [the Son of] God, he is dead; but when he has received the seal, he layeth aside his deadness, and resumeth life. 15[92]:4 The seal then is the water: so they go down into the water dead, and they come up alive. “thus to them also this seal was preached, and they availed themselves of it that they might enter into the kingdom of God.“15[92]:5 “Wherefore, Sir,” say I, “did the forty stones also come up with them from the deep, though they had already received the seal?” “Because,” saith he, “these, the apostles and the teachers who preached the name of the Son of God, after they had fallen asleep in the power and faith of the Son of God, preached also to them that had fallen asleep before them, and themselves gave unto them the seal of the preaching. 15[92]:6 Therefore they went down with them into the water, and came up again. But these went down alive [and again came up alive]; whereas the others that had fallen asleep before them went down dead and came up alive. …”  – Shepherd of Hermas (Parable 9, well known scholar Mr. Lightfoot’s Translation)

 

Source:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd-lightfoot.html

 

Comment: Please read carefully to realize that this Shepherd of Hermas quote clearly Reveals that the “40 Apostles and Teachers” only descended into the SPIRIT WORLD to PREACH the GOSPEL AFTER THEY HAD DIED LIKEWISE to THOSE WHO DIED BEFORE THEM BUT NEVER BELIVED ON EARTH to Relatively “righteous non-Christians” proving that this POST-MORTEM EVENGELIZATION may continue till today too likewise as Described by these Bible Verses too:

 

 

  1. First Time POST-MORTEM EVENGELIZATION by Lord Jesus Christ Himself

 

“… 18For CHRIST also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring [f]us to God, being put to DEATH IN THE FLESH BUT MADE ALIVE by the Spirit, 19by whom also HE WENT AND PREACHED to the SPIRITS IN PRISON, 20who FORMERLY WERE DISOBEDIENT, [g]when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. …” (1 Peter 3:18 – 20, NKJV)

 

  1. Subsequent continuation of POST-MORTEM EVENGELIZATION by the Apostles or those called for it

 

“…   4In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking EVIL of you. 5THEY will give an account to Him who is ready to JUDGE the living and THE DEAD. 6For this reason the GOSPEL was PREACHED also to those who are DEAD, that they might be JUDGED according to men in the FLESH, but LIVE according to God in the SPIRIT. …” (1 Peter 4:4 – 6, NKJV)

 

Note: In Greek, Verse 6 and Verse 5’s “the dead” reads the same but translators add ‘who are dead’.

 

Example:

 

Berean Literal Bible

 

For to this END the GOSPEL was PROCLAIMED even to THE DEAD, so that they might be JUDGED indeed according to men in the FLESH, but they might LIVE in the SPIRIT according to God.

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/1_peter/4-6.htm

 

 

 

 

Here is that Shepherd of Hermas quote in another translation:

 

“… “Explain to me a little further, sir,” I said. “What is it that you desire?” he asked. “Why, sir,” I said, “did these stones ascend out of the pit, and be applied to the building of the tower, after having borne these spirits? “They were obliged,” he answered, “to ascend through water in order that they might be made alive; for, unless they laid aside the deadness of their life, they could not in any other way enter into the kingdom of God. Accordingly, those also who fell asleep received the seal of the Son of God. For,” he continued, “before a man bears the name of the Son of God s he is dead; but when he receives the seal he lays aside his deadness, and obtains life. The seal, then, is the water: they descend into the water dead, and they arise alive. And to them, accordingly, was this seal preached, and they made use of it that they might enter into the kingdom of God.” “Why, sir,” I asked, “did the forty stones also ascend with them out of the pit, having already received the seal?” “Because,” he said, “these apostles and teachers who preached the name of the Son of God, after falling asleep in the power and faith of the Son of God, preached it not only to those who were asleep, but themselves also gave them the seal of the preaching. Accordingly they descended with them into the water, and again ascended. [But these descended alive and rose up again alive; whereas they who had previously fallen asleep descended dead, but rose up again alive. ] By these, then, were they quickened and made to know the name of the Son of God. For this reason also did they ascend with them, and were fitted along with them into the building of the tower, and, untouched by the chisel, were built in along with them. For they slept in righteousness and in great purity, but only they had not this seal. You have accordingly the explanation of these also.” …” – Shepherd of Hermas (CHAPTER XVI, Ninth Similitude,  Translated by another Well Known Scholar Mr. Roberts-Donaldson)

 

Source:  http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd.html

 

Please notice that the SAME WAY CHRIST SAVED some of those who never heard of the Gospel during His Descent into Hades or how He Will Save some on Judgment Day in regards to those who never heard the Gospel/Law likewise, He can also Save them with/without Baptism like this in the same manner, right?

 

Example: The “thief on the cross” was saved without baptism and so probably it’s by ‘relative measure’ and/or ‘Elect vs non-Elect salvation’ or even that the “thief on the cross” received this ‘Spirit World Baptism’ which the Shepherd of Hermas Writing Mysteriously Reveals here.

 

I repeat, please notice that the Shepherd of Hermas Writing is Revealing a Salvation long after Christ’s Resurrection as this involves the Apostles only after they have “died physically” on earth and now evangelize the spirit world toward righteous non-Christians who could be a type of non-elect salvation (let God Decide). Mysterious, isn’t it?

 

Regarding the reliability of the #ShepherdofHermas Writing, please refer to say Pages 91 to 92 or 234 to 240 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook or even more “approval details”  Pages 61 to 63 in the free #EternalhellAnnihilationandUniversalismBook likewise.

 

Conclusion –  Does that mean these ‘Judgment Day’ saved ones are saved by works?

 

Not at all but rather as pointed out they may believe after seeing Christ as the “Eastern Orthodox” Tradition quotes also rings likewise (in point 1) or point 3) vi. earlier at the start) where the #GoodWorks “Fruit” proves that they may be chosen for this non-Elect salvation on Judgment Day of this type by God’s Mercy only.

 

Since this “Eastern Orthodox” Tradition of views this as a “Possibility“, we can likewise proving that ‘faith can be based on a possibility’ if it is found within Orthodox Church History (and not by quoting heretics and non-Church fathers).

 

Yes, this “Eastern Orthodox” Tradition of viewing this “Possibility” like this seems to be most clearly supported by these next SET OF VERSES by CHRIST HIMSELF as follows:

 

“…   37“Then the RIGHTEOUS WILL ANSWER Him, saying, ‘Lord, When Did We See You Hungry And Feed YOU, or THIRSTY AND GIVE YOU DRINK? 38WHEN DID WE SEE YOU A STRANGER and TAKE YOU IN, OR NAKED AND CLOTHE YOU? 39Or WHEN DID WE SEE YOU SICK, OR in PRISON, AND COME TO YOU?’ 40And THE KING WILL ANSWER and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I SAY TO YOU, INASMUCH AS YOU DID IT TO ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHREN, YOU DID IT TO ME.’ …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 25:37 – 40, NKJV)

 

Can you see it?

 

 

 

These ‘Surprised Sheep’ of the “Nations” are saved on the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle Reason only which they may have practiced specifically mentioned by LORD JESUS CHRIST to refer to His Brethren*” (the Elect-Christians of the First Resurrection) and in light of all this, this is WHY we PROMOTE the #CHARITYDOCTRINE to be Preached across all Churches of God where regardless, this is WRITTEN AS CHRIST’S COMMAND for JUDGMENT DAY CONTEXT with NO OTHER RELIGIOUS ACT mentioned proving its UTMOST IMPORTANCE as the FRUIT of MERCY unto SALVATION by GOD’S GRACE regardless.

 

*Any Christian of the “Elect salvation” is “His Brethren” (or Family), Verses:

 

“… 46While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, HIS MOTHER AND BROTHERS, seeking to speak with Him. 47Then one said to Him, “Look, YOUR MOTHER AND YOUR BROTHERS are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.” 48But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “WHO IS MY MOTHER and WHO ARE MY BROTHERS?” 49And He stretched out His hand TOWARD HIS DISCIPLES and said, “HERE ARE MY MOTHER AND MY BROTHERS! 50For whoever DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER in heaven is MY BROTHER AND SISTER AND MOTHER.” …” (Matthew 12:46 – 50, NKJV)

 

More details around Page 625 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook too because anyone who ‘accepts a Christian’ (say even within a family or as a friend and practiced the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle toward them may be CONSIDERED as EQUIVALENT TO RECEIVING CHRIST HIMSELF, hence saved by this NON-ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY based on these next set of Verses by CHRIST HIMSELF DIRECTLY too):

 

“…40“He who receives you receives Me, … 41He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. 42And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 10:40 – 42, highlighted phrases, NKJV)

 

Disclaimer (Please allow me to repeat):

 

I am “not” saying this must be the interpretation but I present it as a “possibility” in light of all these Bible Verses. As I have said, I am “not” a heretic and will accept whichever God Decides One Day but I just present the evidence found within Orthodox and reliable Christianity for these “possibilities”.           Peace to you

 

 

 

Mystery of Blessed St. Maximus the Confessor – Can one man be right and all others wrong in a Theological Point?

 

Source Post:

 

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161770226777784

 

Let’s begin.

 

0) Can Protestants consider him?

 

Though I do “not” see him listed in the “Book of Concord” but he is “venerated” as a “saint” even in the Protestant “Lutheran” and “Anglican” Churches, example quote:

 

“… Confessor, theologian, homologetes

Born c. 580

Haspin, Golan Heights[1] or Constantinople

Died 13 August 662

Tsageri, present-day Georgia

Venerated in Eastern Orthodox Church

Catholic Church

Anglican Communion

Lutheranism

Canonized Pre-congregation …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximus_the_Confessor

 

 

 

I have NEVER SEEN A PRAYER to VIRGIN MARY NOR to the SAINTS by St. Maximus the Confessor as far as I know from HIS WRITINGS. Please consider the write-up below by a “Professor” from even those who pray to Virgin Mary and even by quoting this ‘attributed book to him’ (not the confirmed ones), I do NOT see any Prayers to Mary apart from by addition or supposing so by the author in link below (please consider both sides and decide for yourselves as this might be a reason why both the “Anglican” and “Lutheran” Protestant denominations may have venerated him as their saint too as shown prior):

https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/maximus%E2%80%99s-mary

 

How do I know that the Book quoted above as “attributed” to St. Maximus but is most likely not his at all even?

 

“… Life of the Virgin – earliest complete biography of Mary, the mother of Jesus.[35] This is an attributed work and now believed not to be by Maximus the Confessor. Jankowiak and Booth argue that “none of Maximus’ characteristic preoccupations appear in the Life, and in turn none of the Life’ s central themes appear in the fleeting Marian reflections contained within his genuine corpus”. They also write that there is no Greek manuscript witnessing the text, no evidence that any key thinkers who draw on Maximus were aware of the Life’ s existence and that no record of the Life as a work exists prior to the second half of the tenth century.[36] …:” Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximus_the_Confessor

 

1) Why is this important?

 

There was a time when “Orthodox Christian Denomination*” argued an important theological point where ‘one man was right’ while all others were ‘wrong’ —-> to quote (from their ‘own history’, in image too)):

 

“… As history has demonstrated, Saint Maximus—who was only a simple monk and not even ordained—and his two disciples were the ones who were Orthodox, and all those illustrious, famous and influential Patriarchs and Metropolitans whom the Saint had written against were the ones who were in heresy. When the Sixth Ecumenical Synod was finally convened, among those condemned for heresy were four Patriarchs of Constantinople, one Pope of Rome, one Patriarch of Alexandria, two Patriarchs of Antioch and a multitude of other Metropolitans, Archbishops and Bishops. During all those years, that one simple monk was right, and all those notable bishops were wrong. (pp. 60-62) …”

 

Source: http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/ecum_canons.aspx

*Orthodox Christian Denomination refers to the “Churches of the East” as opposed to the “Churches of the West” which are usually “Roman Catholic” in terms of this definition not to be confused by ‘Protestant Orthodox denominations which is different and varied’.

 

Which doctrine was on “dispute”? Heresy of the Monothelites , example quote:

 

“… The Monothelite position was promulgated by Patriarch Sergius I of Constantinople and by Maximus’ friend and successor as the Abbot of Chrysopolis, Pyrrhus.[8] Following the death of Sergius in 638, Pyrrhus succeeded him as Patriarch, but was shortly deposed owing to political circumstances. During Pyrrhus’ exile from Constantinople, Maximus and the deposed Patriarch held a public debate on the issue of Monothelitism. In the debate, which was held in the presence of many North African bishops, Maximus took the position that Jesus possessed both a human and a divine will. The result of the debate was that Pyrrhus admitted the error of the Monothelite position, and Maximus accompanied him to Rome in 645.[9] Maximus may have remained in Rome, because he was present when the newly elected Pope Martin I convened the Lateran Council of 649 at the Lateran Basilica in Rome.[10] The 105 bishops present condemned Monothelitism in the official acts of the synod, which some believe may have been written by Maximus.[11] It was in Rome that Pope Martin and Maximus were arrested in 653 under orders from Constans II, who supported the Monothelite doctrine. Pope Martin was condemned without a trial, and died before he could be sent to the Imperial Capital.[12] …”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximus_the_Confessor

 

Note: His title of “Confessor” means that he suffered for the Christian faith, but was not directly martyred. What happened? Details:

 

“… Maximus’ refusal to accept Monothelitism caused him to be brought to the imperial capital of Constantinople to be tried as a heretic in 658. In Constantinople, Monothelitism had gained the favor of both the Emperor and the Patriarch of Constantinople. Maximus stood behind the Dyothelite position and was sent back into exile for four more years. During his trial he was accused of aiding the Muslim conquests in Egypt and North Africa, which he rejected as slander.[13][14] . In 662, Maximus was placed on trial once more, and was once more convicted of heresy. Following the trial Maximus was tortured, having his tongue cut out, so he could no longer speak his rebellion, and his right hand cut off, so that he could no longer write letters.[15] Maximus was then exiled to the Lazica or Colchis region of modern-day Georgia and was cast in the fortress of Schemarum, perhaps Muris-Tsikhe near the modern town of Tsageri.[16] He died soon thereafter, on 13 August 662.[17][18] The events of the trials of Maximus were recorded by Anastasius Bibliothecarius.[19] …”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximus_the_Confessor

2) St. Maximus the Confessor believed that 1 Peter 3:16 – 18 or possible 1 Peter 4:6 referred to ‘spirit world’ Salvation by Christ to some:

 

To quote (from pages 142 to 144 of the #LakeofFireBook ):

 

“… An elaborate teaching of the descent of Christ into Hades is found in Maximus the Confessor. In his analysis, Maximus takes as a starting point the words of St. Peter: ‘For this cause was the Gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit’[26].

 

In Maximus’s view, St. Peter does not speak about the Old Testament righteous, but about those sinners who, back in their lifetime, were punished for their evil deeds:

 

Some say that Scriptures call ‘dead’ those who died before the coming of Christ, for instance, those who were at the time of the flood, at Babel, in Sodom, in Egypt, as well as others who in various times and in various ways received various punishments and the terrible misfortune of divine damnation. These people were punished not so much for their ignorance of God as for the offences they imposed on one another.

 

It was to them, according to [St Peter] that the great message of salvation was preached when they were already damned as men in the flesh, that is, when they received, through life in the flesh, punishment for crimes against one another, so that they could live according to God by the spirit, that is, being in hell, they accepted the preaching of the knowledge of God, believing in the Saviour who descended into hell to save the dead. So, in order to understand [this] passage in [Holy Scriptures] let us take it in this way: the dead, damned in the human flesh, were preached to precisely for the purpose that they may live according to God by the spirit[27].

 

Thus, according to Maximus’s teaching, punishments suffered by sinners ‘in the human flesh’ were necessary so that they may live ‘according to God by the spirit’. Therefore, these punishments, whether troubles and misfortunes in their lifetime or pains in hell, had pedagogical and reforming significance. Moreover, Maximus stresses that in damning them, God used not so much a religious as a moral criterion, for people were punished ‘not so much for their ignorance of God as for the offences they imposed on one another’. In other words, the religious or ideological convictions of a particular person were not decisive, but his actions with regard to his neighbours….” – via ArchBishop Hilarion Alfeyev

 

(Pages 3 and 4 by in the PDF as uploaded by a St. James Orthodox Church, link below):

 

Source for the Quote & Write Up above (via THE DESCENT OF CHRIST INTO HADES IN EASTERN AND WESTERN THEOLOGICAL TRADITIONS, His Grace, Hilarion, Russian Orthodox Bishop of Vienna):

https://stjamesorthodox.org/files/articles/Bishop-Hilarion—Christ-the-Conqueror-of-Hades.pdf

 

[26] 1 Pet. 4:6.

[27] Questions-answers to Thalassius 7

 

Note: I quote a purely “Orthodox Christian denomination” source to show that it’s their own Bishop who is revealing thispossibility” too and not an ‘outsider’ from ‘their point of view too’.

 

3) St. Maximus the Confessor was possibly a Universalist Christian too of ‘some type’

 

Example Quotes from his ‘undisputed writings’ (from Pages 990 to 992 of the #LakeofFireBook ):

 

  1. St. Maximus the Confessor Says only Christ Knows the Judgment Sentence

“… The “gloom” is their complete and total blindness to divine grace, a gloom that wholly pervaded the disposition of their will and separated them from the blessed and all-radiant outpouring of divine light. This is how they squandered all the natural intellective power given to them when they were brought into being out of nothing. What will happen to them on the terrible Day of Judgment is something known only to the Just Judge. He will determine the just and deserved recompence for everyone, assigning a form of punishment equal to the degree of wickedness, and, consistent with His good decrees, will render with justice the eternal sentence. …” – Blessed St. Maximus the Confessor, Christian monk, theologian, and scholar, who was a civil servant, and an aide to the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius before he gave up this life in the political sphere to enter into the monastic life, who is venerated in both the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches. He was eventually persecuted for his Christological positions; following a trial, his tongue and right hand were mutilated. (c. 580 AD – c. 662 AD)

Source: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/henrykarlson/2020/01/st-maximos-and-universal-salvation/

  1. St. Maximus seems to Point to a Final Judgment based on “Works” for some to be Saved on Judgment Day itself via Purification (John 5:28 – 29 & Revelation 20:12 – 15 also mention “Works”)

 

“… And the who did not completely acquire perfection but have acquired both sins and good works, come into the court of judgment; there, they are scorched as by a fire by the comparison of their good and evil deeds, and if, in fact, the scale of the good deeds weighs downwards, they are cleansed of punishment …” – Blessed St. Maximus the Confessor, Christian monk, theologian, and scholar, who was a civil servant, and an aide to the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius before he gave up this life in the political sphere to enter into the monastic life, who is venerated in both the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches. He was eventually persecuted for his Christological positions; following a trial, his tongue and right hand were mutilated. (c. 580 AD – c. 662 AD)

Source:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/henrykarlson/2020/01/st-maximos-and-universal-salvation/

 

St. Maximus seems to Point to some type of “Universalism” where God may be ‘… Completely United to All, at the end of the Ages (Aeons) …’ toward each person according to varying capabilities but he seemed to have been “silent” to ‘explain it further’, example quote:

 

“… For nature does not contain the characteristics of the super-natural, just as it does not contain the laws of what is against nature. By ‘supernatural’ I mean the divine and inconceivable joy, which God naturally creates when he is united by grace to those who are worthy. By ‘against nature’, I mean the unspeakable anguish which is involved in the deprivation of this (joy), which God naturally creates when He is united with the unworthy against grace. For God is united with all, according to the quality of the fundamental state of each person; in a way that He understands, he supplies sensation to each one, corresponding to the way each is made by Him to receive the One Who is completely united to all, at the end of the ages …” – Blessed St. Maximus the Confessor, Christian monk, theologian, and scholar, who was a civil servant, and an aide to the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius before he gave up this life in the political sphere to enter into the monastic life, who is venerated in both the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches. He was eventually persecuted for his Christological positions; following a trial, his tongue and right hand were mutilated. (c. 580 AD – c. 662 AD, Quest. Thal. 59 PG 90, 609B14-C12, Quaestiones ad Thalassium)

Source: https://classicalchristianity.com/2016/03/08/on-universalism-and-st-maximus-the-confessor/

Someone remarked:

 

‘… Maximus the Confessor hopes that universal salvation may be true, yet he states the horrors of existing outside God’s presence in sad and fearful terms. …’

 

More Universalism supporting quotes by St. Maximus the Confessor may be found in detail in link below as the author’s aim is, to quote:

 

“… In this essay I will demonstrate:

 

that the entire thrust of Maximus’ theology points almost unequivocally in a universalist direction;

 

that in an often overlooked passage in Ambiguum 42, Maximus supports universalism, while at the same time clueing us in to the actual aim of those mysterious 553 Origenist anathemas;

 

that the passages of “honorable silence” make the best sense when interpreted as referring to universal salvation—spiritual beginners should never be let in on the “universalist secret,” lest it make them spiritually lazy;

 

that the terrifying passages in Maximus’ writings must be interpreted within the larger context of his theology.

 

While it is true that Hans Urs von Balthasar, Ilaria Ramelli, and Andreas Andreopoulos have trod similar ground before me, there are certain nuances of Maximus’ thought that have not yet been sufficiently explored relating to universal salvation. …”

 

https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2020/04/02/st-maximus-the-universalist/

 

 

 

 

Conclusion

 

What if St. Maximus the Confessor was a “Universalist Christian” in some way if “not for all men context” as his quotes here demonstrate and if ‘he was right’ just like he was for the past history example?

 

Just sharing this “possibility” and as I have repeated many times before (so as not to be misunderstood) ,that  I am “not” a heretic and will accept whichever God Decides One Day but I just present the evidence found within Orthodox and reliable Christianity for these “possibilities“.

 

Source for image:

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/ecum_canons.aspx

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

Unresolved Mystery of Hades via Blessed St. John of Damascus

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161770540327784

 

Can protestants consider him?

 

Yes, because he is the “last name” mentioned in order of “time” in the First Protestant Fathers’ “Book of Concord”, to quote:

 

“… The Lutheran Church did not start in the 1500s, but is the continuation of the one catholic (universal) Church, including everyone who taught and believed the one catholic faith. In The Book of Concord, the Early Church fathers are referenced and quoted in every confessional document (except the Small Catechism). Here are all the ones mentioned: … Justin Martyr, IRENAEUS, and TERTULLIAN from the second century. ORIGEN, Cyprian, Anthony of Egypt, ATHANASIUS, Basil of Caesarea, Gregory of Nazianzus, Gregory of Nyssa, John Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexandria, HILARY OF POITIERS, Jerome, Ambrose, Augustine, and Leo I covered the third, fourth, and fifth centuries .Gregory I, Bede, and JOHN OF DAMASCUS from the sixth, seventh, and eighth centuries. These men taught and wrote throughout  . … The Christian faith did not originate with us. The Christian faith is handed on from one generation of saints to the next, as each generation holds to Scripture. There is so much we can learn from the faithful teachers of the ancient Church, for we are all part of the same catholic Church. They should not be strangers to us. If we are truly Lutheran, then they are truly our fathers. …”

 

Source:

 

https://lutheranreformation.org/history/lutherans-early-church-fathers/

 

This is why even in the Roman Catholic or Orthodox Christianity even, St. John of Damascus is called the ‘Last Father of the Church’.

 

 

 

Details, to quote from Pages 994 to 1001 from the #LakeofFireBook:

 

“… And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day. …” – The KING, Lord Jesus Christ (John 6:40, NKJV)

 

  1. St. John of Damascus points that Christ Saved the non-Christian (“unlearnt”) righteous in ‘good works’ too during His Descent into Hades and not just the believing-righteous implying also that ‘some believed in Christ in Hades and were Saved there proving that the believing after seeing Hope exists in Hades as included say by the Bible Verse John 6:40 above’.

 

“… Some say that [Christ delivered from Hades] only those who believed, such as fathers and prophets, judges and together with them kings, local rulers and some others from the Hebrew people, not numerous and known to all. But we shall reply to those who think so that there is nothing undeserved, nothing miraculous and nothing strange in that Christ should save those who believed, for He remains only the fair Judge, and every one who believes in Him will not perish. So they all ought to have been saved and delivered from the bonds of Hades by the descent of God and Master — that same happened by His Disposition. Whereas those who were saved only through [God’s] love of men were, as I think, all those who had the purest life and did all kinds of good works, living in modesty, temperance and virtue, but the pure and divine faith they did not conceive because they were not instructed in it and remained altogether unlearnt. They were those whom the Steward and Master of all drew, captured in the divine nets and persuaded to believe in Him, illuminating them with the divine rays and showing them the true light. (Concerning Those Who Died in Faith PG 95, 257 AC). …” – Blessed St. John of Damascus, the Last Father of the Church who is a revered Father of the Church, and is recognized as a saint. He is sometimes called the last of the Church Fathers by the Roman Catholic Church. In 1890 he was declared a Doctor of the Church by Pope Leo XIII (c. 675 AD – c. 749 AD)

 

Comment: Again, these non-Christian righteous must be justified by the “Faith of Jesus Christ” (Christ’s Faith) as neither did these non-Christian righteous (the ‘unlearnt’) though rich in good works did have any ‘faith in Christ/God’ as the Shepherd of Hermas mentioned them too. Why can’t such a redemption continue now by God’s Mercy?

 

 

 

 

  1. St. John of Damascus does not seem to believe that the Final Hell Fire as a ‘material fire’ but a ‘Fire which God Alone knows’

 

“… “And so, with our souls again united to our bodies. which will have become incorrupt and put off corruption, we shall rise again and stand before the terrible judgment seat of Christ. And the devil and his demons, and his man, which is to say, the Antichrist, and the impious and sinners will be given over to everlasting fire, which will not be a material fire such as we are accustomed to, but a fire such as God might know. And those who have done good will shine like the sun together with the angels unto eternal life with our Lord Jesus Christ, ever seeing Him and being seen, enjoying the unending bliss which is from Him, and praising Him together with the Father and the Holy Spirit unto the endless ages of ages. Amen.” …” – Blessed St. John of Damascus, the Last Father of the Church who is a revered Father of the Church, and is recognized as a saint. He is sometimes called the last of the Church Fathers by the Roman Catholic Church. In 1890 he was declared a Doctor of the Church by Pope Leo XIII (c. 675 AD – c. 749 AD, in the final chapter of his Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith)

 

Source:

 

http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/excerpts_death.aspx

 

This agrees with Blessed St. Ambrose of Milan’s quote below too:

 

“… It is not enough, however, to come if one is invited: one must have the wedding dress, that is to say have faith and charity. Whoever therefore does not bring peace and charity to the altars of Christ will be seized by the feet and the hands, and thrown into the darkness from without. “There will be tears and gnashing of teeth. What are the darkness of the outside? Will there also be prisons and latomias? In no way; but whoever is excluded from the promises of the heavenly commandments is in outer darkness, because the commandments of God are light (Jn, xii, 35); and whoever is without Christ is in darkness, because the inner light is Christ. So it is not a question of the creaking of the material teeth, nor of some eternal fire of material flames, nor of a material worm. …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the first Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer &Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD)

 

Source: https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/luke-commentary/ambrose-on-luke-14

From the above, Blessed St. Ambrose does NOT see that the ‘Final Lake of Fire is literal (material, Revelation 21:8, Revelation 20:11 – 15)’ nor that the ‘Worm is literal’ (Mark 9:48) and Neither that the ‘Gnashing of teeth as literal either’ (Matthew 13:42, Luke 13:28):

 

“… So it is not a question of the creaking of the material teeth, nor of some eternal fire of material flames, nor of a material worm. …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan

 

This Concept of Understanding that the Final-Hell/Gehenna/Lake of Fire Punishment is not literal (e.g. as per the ‘gnashing of teeth’) but refers to the ‘soul’s thoughts tormenting it’ is expressed even by the Great Saint of Orthodoxy below, to quote:

 

“…But as to “There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth ,” 54 we must confront them with the objection that, as in this life the creator has made every member of the body for some purpose, so he has made the teeth to chew solid food Why do the damned need teeth, then? Our brethren do not claim that they eat in hell. (2) And it must be pointed out that not everything in scripture is to be taken literally. Scripture says, “Thou hast broken the teeth of sinners, ” 55 and, “The Lord hath crushed the teeth of the lions ,” 56 but who is so foolish as to suppose that, while preserving sinners’ bodies, God breaks only their teeth? (3) Just as whoever wanted the lines to read like that was obliged by his discomfort with them to resort to allegory, so one must look for the gnashing of the teeth of the damned. The soul has the faculty of “chewing [on things],” and when convicted of its sins will “gnash its teeth” by the clashing of its thoughts . 51 16.6 But “Fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna]” 58 perhaps teaches that the soul is incorporeal, or even, perhaps, means that the soul will not be punished apart from the body. …” – Blessed St. Epiphanius, Bishop of Salamis and the ‘Hammer of Heretics’, (c. 310 AD – c. 403 AD, ‘ORIGEN’ , “Panarion or Medicine-Chest”, Points 16.1 – 16., Pages 146 – 147)

 

Source:

 

https://archive.org/stream/EpiphaniusPanarionBksIIIII1/Epiphanius%20-%20_Panarion_%20-%20Bks%20II%20%26%20III%20-%201_djvu.txt

 

 

 

 

iii. St. John of Damascus clearly believed in the non-Elect Salvation of Some who are non-Christians or Unbaptized Saved by the Prayer of the Christians

 

To quote:

 

“… In the life of St. Thecla, the first century martyr and follower of the Apostle Paul, we read of her arrest in Antioch during which time she was kept in the custody of Tryphina, a rich noblewoman who although now a Christian, her daughter Falconilla reposed while they were pagans. One night Tryphina beheld her daughter in a dream, who said:

 

“My mother, love the stranger, Thecla. Take her as your daughter in my place, for she is the handmaid of God. She can entreat the Lord to place me with the righteous.”

 

When she awoke she related the matter to Thecla and asked her to pray for her daughter. Straightway, Thecla raised her hands in prayer, and uttered with tears:

 

“My Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the true and living God, hearken unto Your handmaiden and grant rest to the soul of Falconilla in life eternal, according to Your holy will.”

 

St. John of Damascus, in his “Homily for Meat-Fare Saturday”, testifies concerning this act of Thecla, saying:

 

“Did not the Protomartyr save Falconilla after the latter had reposed? Perhaps you may say that her prayer was heard because she was a martyr. To this I reply that it was indeed fitting that her prayer was heard since she was a martyr. But consider also on whose behalf the supplication was made. Was it not for a pagan, an idolater, altogether profane and estranged from the Lord?”

 

In this same homily, St. John of Damascus goes on to bring up the example of St. Gregory the Dialogist, Pope of Rome, of whom he writes:

 

“One day, as Gregory the Dialogist, Bishop of Old Rome (a man known to all for his holiness and wisdom, of whom it is said that an angel from heaven served with him when he celebrated the Divine Liturgy), was traveling along a paved stone road, he halted and prayed to God, who loves the souls of men, to forgive the Emperor Trajan his sins. The Saint straightway heard the voice of the most heavenly God, which said to him, ‘I have heard your supplication and shall grant Trajan forgiveness, but I command you to cease your entreaties to Me on behalf of the impure.’ To the veracity of this account East and West alike bear witness.”

 

Following this, the Damascene mentions Falconilla once more, saying:

 

“The same is true of Falconilla, of whom we spoke before. She was guilty only of worshipping idols, but Trajan sent numerous martyrs to cruel death. You are wonderful, O Master, and marvelous are Your works, and Your inexpressible compassions do we glorify!”

 

Thus we know from the trustworthy testimony of the Damascene that Falconilla was granted salvation after her repose by the prayers of the holy Protomartyr Thecla, and Trajan was granted salvation after his repose by the prayers of the holy Gregory, Pope of Rome.

 

Other examples from the lives of the saints where private prayer made on behalf of those reposed outside the Church are St. Perpetua who prayed for her unbaptized brother Dinocrates, and St. Theodora the Empress who prayed for her iconoclast husband Theophilos the Emperor.

 

In each of the above instances, through the fervent entreaty of the saint, Christ granted them a vision where their request for the relief of the reposed was granted. It is not possible to make a formal Church doctrine out of these saint’s expressions of love and affection for those that reposed in such precarious spiritual states, but love transcends every barrier.

 

The following is a model of a private prayer which might be said for a reposed non-Orthodox person as suggested by the Elder Leonid of Optina, one who was experienced in the spiritual life:

 

Have mercy, O Lord, if it is possible, on the soul of Your servant (name), departed to eternal life in separation from Your Holy Orthodox Church! Unsearchable are Your judgments. Account not this my prayer as sin, but may Your holy will be done! …”

 

Source: https://arizonaorthodox.com/pray-reposed-non-christians-non-orthodox/

 

In Short, Blessed St. John of Damascus’ own words are as follows:

 

“… “Did not the Protomartyr save Falconilla after the latter had reposed? Perhaps you may say that her prayer was heard because she was a martyr. To this I reply that it was indeed fitting that her prayer was heard since she was a martyr. But consider also on whose behalf the supplication was made. Was it not for a pagan, an idolater, altogether profane and estranged from the Lord?” … “One day, as Gregory the Dialogist*, Bishop of Old Rome (a man known to all for his holiness and wisdom, of whom it is said that an angel from heaven served with him when he celebrated the Divine Liturgy), was traveling along a paved stone road, he halted and prayed to God, who loves the souls of men, to forgive the Emperor Trajan his sins. The Saint straightway heard the voice of the most heavenly God, which said to him, ‘I have heard your supplication and shall grant Trajan forgiveness, but I command you to cease your entreaties to Me on behalf of the impure.’ To the veracity of this account East and West alike bear witness.” … “The same is true of Falconilla, of whom we spoke before. She was guilty only of worshipping idols, but Trajan sent numerous martyrs to cruel death. You are wonderful, O Master, and marvelous are Your works, and Your inexpressible compassions do we glorify!” …” – Blessed St. John of Damascus, the Last Father of the Church who is a revered Father of the Church, and is recognized as a saint. He is sometimes called the last of the Church Fathers by the Roman Catholic Church. In 1890 he was declared a Doctor of the Church by Pope Leo XIII (c. 675 AD – c. 749 AD, in the final chapter of his Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith)

 

Another Source quoting this same fact:

 

https://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2015/09/praying-for-reposed-non-christians-and.html

 

*St. Gregory the Great mentioned by St. John of Damasus above is the same – Blessed Roman Catholic Pope St. Gregory the Great, Saint Gregory the Dialogist in Eastern Christianity, the Father of Christian Worship, and Protestant Reformer Blessed John Calvin declared in his Institutes that Gregory was the last good Pope.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  1. Other Prayer for the Dead Testimonies from Orthodox Christianity

 

to quote:

 

“… How important commemoration at the Liturgy is may be seen in the following occurrence: Before the uncovering of the relics of St. Theodosius of Chernigov (1896), the priest-monk (the renowned Starets Alexis of Goloseyevsky Hermitage, of the Kiev-Caves Lavra, who died in 1916) who was conducting the re-vesting of the relics, becoming weary while sitting by the relics, dozed off and saw before him the Saint, who told him: “I thank you for laboring me. I beg you also, when you will serve the Liturgy, to commemorate my parents”—and be gave their names (Priest Nikita and Maria).* “How can you, O Saint, ask my prayers, when you yourself stand at the heavenly Throne and grant to people God’s mercy?” the priest-monk asked. “Yes, that is true,” replied St. Theodosius, “but the offering at the Liturgy is more powerful than my prayer.”

 

Therefore, panikhidas and prayer a home for the dead are beneficial for them, as are good deeds done in their memory, such as alms or contributions to the church. But especially beneficial for them is commemoration at the Divine Liturgy. There have been many appearances of the dead and other occurrences which confirm how beneficial is the commemoration of the dead. Many who died in repentance, but who were unable to manifest this while they were alive, have been freed from tortures and have obtained repose. In the Church prayers are ever offered for the repose of the dead, and on the day of the Descent of the Holy Spirit, in the kneeling prayers at vespers, there is even a special petition “for those in hell.”

 

St. Gregory the Great, in answering in his Dialogues the question, “Is there anything at all that can possibly benefit souls after death?” teaches: “The Holy Sacrifice of Christ, our saving Victim, brings great benefits to souls even after death, provided their sins (are such as) can be pardoned in the life to come. For this reason the souls of the dead sometimes beg to have Liturgies offered for them … The safer course, naturally, is to do for ourselves during life what we hope others will do for us after death. It is better to make one’s exit a free man than to seek liberty after one is in chains. We should, therefore, despise this world with all our hearts as though its glory were already spent, and offer our sacrifice of tears to God each day as we immolate His sacred Flesh and Blood. This Sacrifice alone has the power of saving the soul from eternal death, for it presents to us mystically the death of the Only-begotten Son” (Dialogues IV: 57, 60, pp. 266, 272-3).

 

 

St. Gregory gives several examples of the dead appearing to the living and asking for or thanking them for the celebration of the Liturgy for their repose; once, also, a captive whom his wife believed dead and for whom she had the Liturgy celebrated on certain days, returned from captivity and told her how he had been released from his chains on some days—the very days when the Liturgy had been offered for him. (Dialogues IV: 57, 59, pp. 267, 270).

 

Protestants generally find the Church’s prayer for the dead to be somehow incompatible with the necessity of finding salvation first of all in this life: “If you can be saved by the Church after death, then why bother to struggle or find faith in this Life? Let us eat, drink, and be merry…” Of course, no one holding such a philosophy has ever attained salvation by the Church’s prayer, and it is evident that such an argument is quite artificial and even hypocritical. The Church’s prayer cannot save anyone who does not wish salvation, or who never offered any struggle for it himself during his lifetime. In a sense, one might say that the prayer of the Church or of individual Christians for a dead person is but another result of that person’s life: he would not be prayed for unless he had done something during his lifetime to inspire such prayer after his death.

 

St. Mark of Ephesus also discusses this question of the Church’s prayer for the dead and the improvement it brings in their state, citing the example of the prayer of St. Gregory the Dialogist for the Roman Emperor Trajan—a prayer inspired by a good deed of this pagan Emperor. …”

 

Source: http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/excerpts_death.aspx

 

 

Source for image (Page 10 via ArchBishop Hilarion Alfeyev):

 

https://stjamesorthodox.org/files/articles/Bishop-Hilarion—Christ-the-Conqueror-of-Hades.pdf

 

Peace to you

Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus – what if it is not literal?

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161755868937784

 

Let’s prepare for this likewise too.

 

1) Blessed Martin Luther, the First Protestant saw this Parable as “not” literal

 

“… Martin Luther taught that the story was a parable about rich and poor in this life and the details of the afterlife not to be taken literally:

 

Therefore we conclude that the bosom of Abraham signifies nothing else than the Word of God, … the hell here mentioned cannot be the true hell that will begin on the day of judgment. For the corpse of the rich man is without doubt not in hell, but buried in the earth; it must however be a place where the soul can be and has no peace, and it cannot be corporeal. Therefore it seems to me, this hell is the conscience, which is without faith and without the Word of God, in which the soul is buried and held until the day of judgment, when they are cast down body and soul into the true and real hell. (Church Postil 1522–23) …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_man_and_Lazarus

 

2) What I believe?

 

Scripture has two meanings usually (both true) namely the “Allegorical and the Literal“. What Martin Luther has explained above is “allegorical” which I believe also but the difference is I also believe in its “literal” meaning as well.

 

Is this position Biblical? Of course, here’s a famous example done in the New Testament itself, Verses:

 

 

  1. i) Hosea 11:1 “literally” points Israel as the “son” coming out of “Egypt’s slavery time

 

“… When Israel was a child, I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son. …” (Hosea 11:1, NKJV)

 

  1. ii) Blessed Matthew quotes Hosea 11:1 as referring “Allegorically” to Lord Jesus Christ as ‘coming out of Egypt as a child as per the King Herod’s baby killing incident’

 

“… 13Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, “Arise, take the young Child and His mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I bring you word; for Herod will seek the young Child to destroy Him.” 14When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, 15and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.” [Hosea 11:1] …” (Matthew 2:15, NKJV)

 

Conclusion

So we accept ‘both’ meanings of this Parable and thus it means two things based on the major WARNING/REASON WHY the Rich Man was sent to HELL in Luke 16:25 itself as follows:

 

“… 25But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. …”  – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:25, NKJV)

 

  1. Literal Meaning

 

Claiming to #BelieveinChrist but living it out the same way as above is “denying Him by these same #ProsperityWorks which led that Rich Man to Hell” as that’s what the “Message of the #Prophets and #Torah is” according to #LordJesusChrist Himself here and so if anyone is a #RealProphetofGod he should likewise teach the “sameAS CHRIST HERE which is Living the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle IN REGARDS TO THE WORLDLY GOOD/THINGS BY GIVING AND SHARING IT FOR FREE TOWARD THE POOR OR INCLUDING THEM IN YOUR CHURCH PROGRAMS and avoiding the #ProsperityLifestyle INSTEAD OF CLAIMING IT AS GOD’S BLESSING WHERE THAT CHURCH COLLECTION MONEY OUGHT TO BE SPENT SAY FOR MORE NEEDS OF THE POOR (EXAMPLE).

  1. Allegorical Meaning

 

Claiming to #BelieveinChrist but living it out the same way as above is “denying Him by these same #ProsperityWorks which led that Rich Man to Hell” as that’s what the “Message of the #Prophets and #Torah is” according to #LordJesusChrist Himself here and so if anyone is a #RealProphetofGod he should likewise teach the “sameAS CHRIST HERE which is Living the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle IN REGARDS TO THE GOSPEL THINGS BY GIVING AND SHARING IT FOR FREE INSTEAD OF MERCHANDISING AND SELLING IT ONLY EVEN EXPENSIVELY ESPECIALLY TOWARD THE POOR and avoiding the #ProsperityLifestyle INSTEAD OF CLAIMING IT AS GOD’S BLESSING WHERE THAT CHURCH COLLECTION MONEY OUGHT TO BE SPENT SAY FOR MORE GOSPEL TRACKS (EXAMPLE).

 

Because even this “Apostolic Fathers” Writing of the “Didache” Taught this likewise as follows:

 

“… And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges; but if he ask money, he is a false prophet. AND EVERY PROPHET THAT SPEAKS IN THE SPIRIT YOU SHALL NEITHER TRY NOR JUDGE; for EVERY SIN SHALL BE FORGIVEN, but THIS SIN SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN. … But whoever SAYS IN THE SPIRIT, GIVE ME MONEY or SOMETHING ELSE, you shall NOT LISTEN to him; but IF he SAYS TO YOU TO GIVE FOR OTHER’S SAKE WHO ARE IN NEED, LET NO ONE JUDGE him. …” – The Didache  or the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles to the Nations (Chapter 11)

 

Source:  https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm

 

Please notice carefully the last line above too which Reveals that Preaching the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle has “Zero” Risks because it’s for “other’s needs” and not collected by the Preacher.

 

Can you see the “risks“?

 

Do you Preach both meanings likewise if you “PREACH HELL using the SAME WORDS AS CHRIST DID HERE”?

 

 

At least, please preach the “literal” meaning since Christ cannot be tricking simple believers into non-existent reasons but rather this is what every common Christian to the Church Fathers understood likewise regarding this Parable as demonstrated in that link earlier too.

 

 

If really keen on “Preaching Heaven and Hell” we need to Preach this (reason for image):

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161753728452784

 

“… 19“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and [h]fared sumptuously every day. 20But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21desiring to be fed with [i]the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

 

24“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

 

27“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:19 – 31, NKJV)

 

Conclusion

 

1) Reason for “#Hell” for the #RichMan is given as lack of #CharityDoctrineLifestyle and also #Prosperity and #Luxury living

 

“… 25But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. …”  – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:25, NKJV)

 

2) Claiming to #BelieveinChrist but living it out the same way as above is “denying Him by these same #ProsperityWorks which led that Rich Man to Hell” as that’s what the “Message of the #Prophets and #Torah is” according to #LordJesusChrist Himself here and so if anyone is a #RealProphetofGod he should likewise teach the “sameAS CHRIST HERE which is Living the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle and avoiding the #ProsperityLifestyle

 

“… ; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:30 – 31

 

3) Please notice carefully that nothing else is mentioned by CHRIST HIMSELF in these Verses in this ONLY DESCRIPTION OF HELL literally Found in the Bible (did you know?) Meaning that this must be the NO. 1 REASON PEOPLE GO TO HELL for if not CHRIST WOULD HAVE SAID DIFFERENTLY OR ADDED MORE REASONS BUT DID NOT agreeing even to JUDGMENT DAY VERSES in Matthew 25:31 to 46 likewise where He only Asks likewise regarding what #CharityDoctrine acts one did in regards to ‘… When I was Hungry, Thirsty, Naked, Homeless, etc. …’ as this is what the  #SPIRITOFPROPHECY Revealed about #Hell in these “Bible Verses” and best is by #LORDJESUSCHRIST Himself in these Verses as it is Written.

 

So are we “Preaching these Verses?”

 

‘… Preaching Christ is not just Speaking about Him but also Preaching what He Spoke …’

 

Peace to you

 

 

Mystery of the Agape-Love Feast as part of WORSHIP to GOD

 

Source Post:

 

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161754383272784

 

Is it taught in the Bible?

 

Bible Verses Proving its Mysterious Existence in First Christianity:

 

“… These are spots in your LOVE FEASTS [Agape-Feast]*, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots;  13raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. …” (Jude 1:12 – 13, NKJV)

 

*[Emphasis Mine for the “Original Koine Greek Meaning”]

 

The only other quote from around that time which I found is in the Mysterious “Epistle of the Apostles Writing” (which was only re-discovered in the 20th Century) which reads as follows:

 

“… 15 But do ye commemorate my death. Now when the Passover (Easter, pascha) cometh, one of you shall be cast into prison for my name’s sake; and he will be in grief and sorrow, because ye keep the Easter while he is in prison and separated from you, for he will be sorrowful because he keepeth not Easter with you. And I will send my power in the form of mine angel Gabriel, and the doors of the prison shall open. And he shall come forth and come unto you and keep the night-watch with you until the cock crow. And when ye have ACCOMPLISHED THE MEMORIAL WHICH IS MADE OF ME, AND THE AGAPE (LOVE FEAST), he shall again be cast into prison for a testimony, until he shall come out thence and preach that which I have delivered unto you. …” – Attributed to Lord Jesus Christ Speaking

(Verse 15, highlighted, Epistle of the Apostles)

Source:  https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apostolorum.html

 

More regarding it can be found in the link below:

 

“… in Saint Ignatius of Antioch’s Letter to the Smyrnaeans, where the term agape is used, and in a letter from Pliny the Younger to Trajan,[10] (ca. 111 A.D.) in which he reported that the Christians, after having met “on a stated day” in the early morning to “address a form of prayer to Christ, as to a divinity”, later in the day wouldreassemble, to eat in common a harmless meal”.[7] Similar communal meals are attested also in the Apostolic tradition often attributed to Hippolytus of Rome, who does not use the term agape, and in works of Tertullian, who does. The connection between such substantial meals and the Eucharist had virtually ceased by the time of Cyprian (died 258), when the Eucharist was celebrated with fasting in the morning and the agape in the evening.[7] The Synod of Gangra in 340 makes mention of lovefeasts in relation to a heretic who had barred his followers from attending them.[11] Though still mentioned in the Quinisext Council of 692, the agape fell into disuse soon after, except among the churches in Ethiopia and India.[7][12] At the end of the 18th century the Carmelite friar Paolino da San Bartolomeo reported that the ancient Saint Thomas Christians of India still celebrated the lovefeast, using their typical dish called appam.[12][13] In addition, Radical Pietist groups originating in the eighteenth-century, such as the Schwarzenau Brethren and the Moravian Church, celebrate the lovefeast. Methodist churches also continue the practice.[8] The practice has been revived more recently among other groups, including Anglicans,[7] as well as the American house church movement.[14] The modern lovefeast has often been used in ecumenical settings, such as between Methodists and Anglicans.[15] …:”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agape_feast

 

How to Identify “those reserved for Blackness Forever” as Described in this “Bible Verse“?

Note: please notice that it is the “Selfish” called here as “ … looking after themselves …” who are “Revealed” at such #CharityDoctrineLOVE FEASTS (Agape-Feast)” are reserved for “DARKNESS FOREVER”. Please note that “Agape = Love of God” and so the demonstration of “Agape-Love” is clearly this #CharityDoctrine Agape-Feast.                        Can you see it as “it is Written”?

Source for below is Page 341 of the #CharityDoctrineBook .

 

Church History, to quote:

“…  If you were to ask the ordinary Christian today what a Christian meeting was like in the days of the apostles, you would probably get different answers. An evangelical Christian would probably answer that it consisted primarily of preaching and singing. A charismatic Christian might reply that it primarily incorporated worship, praise, and the exercise of miraculous gifts. An Anglican might reply that it was principally a celebration of the Eucharist. Of course, all of those responses are partially right. However, a rather dominant part of apostolic worship that few Christians would think of today is that it centered around a meal. That’s right—a meal! The early Christians referred to this meal as the agape. Even after the death of the apostles, the pre-Nicene Church continued to practice the agape or love feast. Yet, within a century or so after Constantine’s conversion, this important part of apostolic worship totally disappeared. …”

Source: https://earlychurch.com/love-feast/

 

It is a beautiful Scriptural Biblical Practice in light of the #CharityDoctrine too.

 

 

Peace to you

 

Charismatic Christianity Dilemma – Which Speaking in Tongues is Real and Beyond?

 

Charismatic Speaking in Tongues Christians type sometimes have a poor command of Church History if they start condemning us simply without even understanding what their Founders even said on various theological matters and so this writing should build a bridge of understanding between us and them.

 

1) Charismatic Gift of Speaking in TonguesWho was the First?

 

Ms. Agnes Ozman

 

“… Agnes Ozman (1870–1937) was a student at Charles Fox Parham’s Bethel Bible School in Topeka, Kansas. Ozman was considered as the first to speak in tongues in the pentecostal revival when she was 30 years old in 1901 (Cook 2008). However, her experience, nevertheless valid, post dates the Shearer Schoolhouse revival of 1896 near Murphy, NC., where the first documented mass outpouring of the Holy Ghost was said to have occurred; they spoke with new tongues there in a “Holy Ghost baptism” type of revival. Her experiences sparked the modern Pentecostal-Holiness movement, which began in the early 20th century. Her parents were farmers, and since childhood, Agnes and her six siblings attended the Methodist Episcopal Church in Nebraska, Wisconsin. As a young woman, Ozman participated in biblical institutions and eventually attended the Bethel Bible School in Kansas. …”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_Ozman

 

2) Charismatic Christianity FounderCharles Fox Parham the ‘Father of the Pentecostal’ Movement (yes his real name has “fox” in it, I am “not” ridiculing him but mentioning this lest anyone misunderstand this word in his name)

 

“… Charles Fox Parham: Charles F. Parham (June 4, 1873 – c. January 29, 1929) was an American preacher and evangelist. Together with William J. Seymour, Parham was one of the two central figures in the development and early spread of American Pentecostalism. It was Parham who associated glossolalia with the baptism in the Holy Spirit, a theological connection crucial to the emergence of Pentecostalism as a distinct movement. Parham was the first preacher to articulate Pentecostalism’s distinctive doctrine of evidential tongues, and to expand the movement. …”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fox_Parham

Ms. Agnes quoted earlier was his student but she received the ‘gift of speaking tongues’ before he did.

 

3) Why ‘Charismatics need new denominations’?

 

Their Founder, Mr. Charles Fox Parham himself did “not” fit in with his ‘local church’ which was ‘Methodist’ and was “never ordained as a pastor/priest/any spiritual leadership by existing Church Leaders” (and so Charismatic Christians shouldn’t say things like ‘would God use someone outside the Church to correct its leaders simply because their Founder himself was a product of such a method which they must approve is GodLed’ to make ‘Parham’s calling a true one’, where I neither affirm nor deny ‘his calling‘ because I don’t know but that’s the “Logic” regardless):

 

“… Parham began conducting his first religious services at the age of 15. In 1890, he enrolled at Southwestern College in Winfield, Kansas, a Methodist affiliated school. He attended until 1893 when he came to believe education would prevent him from ministering effectively. He then worked in the Methodist Episcopal Church as a supply pastor (he was never ordained).[4] Parham left the Methodist church in 1895 because he disagreed with its hierarchy. He complained that Methodist preachers “were not left to preach by direct inspiration”.[2] Rejecting denominations, he established his own itinerant evangelistic ministry, which preached the ideas of the holiness movement and was well received by the people of Kansas.[5] …”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fox_Parham

 

Please notice that Parham clearly had problems with “hierarchy” which the Methodists at that time followed the “New Testament Traditions” together with the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as their Co-Founder Blessed John Wesley was a ‘Penniless Preacher’ for most part (as I have discussed some of these ‘strict Church Rules John Wesley’s Methodist Church Obeyed’ in say in Pages 768 to 771 in this Book).

 

Perhaps the ‘new way’ of Pentecostal Christianity as Parham Founded it allows ‘his way doing it’. This is ‘why’ I neither Judge nor approve all this simply because I really don’t know if God told him so such new ways but sticking to the ‘old ways’ is certainly okay as I never heard Parham condemning his ‘earlier Methodist Church which adhered to all these hierarchy including the New Testament Traditions’ as heretics and so neither will we be heretics by Parham’s standards if we continue in the ‘old way’.

 

The opinions of any ‘modern Pentecostals or charismatics’ is NOT important at all since if their spiritual ‘Father of Pentecostalism, Mr. Charles Parham’ has “not” condemned our old ways despite him practicing his ‘new ways’, we are still in the #SafeRouteScripturally even by ‘his standards’.

 

This is why I only quote the First Christians of a Particular Movement or Theology (from say the earliest Chiliasm Church Fathers to Protestant Founders to now even this Pentecostalism Founders) where if by each of their standards our doctrine or “possible doctrines” (be it human speculations, it’s okay but must be found from among these ones only) is “not” condemned by them to be from the Devil, we are safe Biblically regardless of whatever our sometimes ill-informed modern counterparts falsely accuse neither knowing their own history even.

 

4) Which Type of Speaking in Tongues did the First Speaking of Tongues were in this Pentecostal Movement itself?

 

  1. i) Fact: First ever Speaking in Tongues Gift (if Real) even in this Pentecostal Movement was “ACTUAL HUMAN LANGUAGE, in PARTICULAR IT WAS CHINESE” and “not unknown tongue of spirit-groaning nor tongue of angels or those type but an ACTUAL HUMAN LANGUAGE ONLY’

 

“… The students of Bethel Bible School and their mentor planned a New Year’s eve “watch night” service to pray for the Holy Spirit. After midnight, on the first day of 1901, Agnes asked Parham to lay his hands on her and pray specifically that she might be filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in another tongue as evidence of the filling. According to the others, his prayer was heard. Agnes began speaking in Chinese. Those with her reported that a halo seemed to surround her head and face. Soon afterward, the remaining students also spoke in unknown languages and later Parham himself did too. It is said that Agnes could not speak English for three days and was only able to write in Chinese characters. Coming as a direct result of prayer, her experience convinced the other students that tongues should accompany filling by the Holy Spirit. Many Christian theologians disagree, but Agnes’ New Year’s morning experience was a red letter day in the modern “Pentecostal” movement. …”

 

Source:

https://www.christianity.com/church/church-history/timeline/1901-2000/was-agnes-ozman-speaking-chinese-11630666.html

 

Comments:

 

  1. a) Mr. Parham was the ‘Pastor’ or leader there ‘not’ Ms. Agnes.

 

  1. b) Parham laid hands on Ms. Agnes and she became the “First Pentecostal Charismatic Tongues Speaking Christian”

 

  1. c) Regarding numbers, please don’t be confused as “not” every of the 500 million Pentecostal Christians today “speak in tongues”, to quote:

 

“… Wheaton Theology report says: “There were 631 million Pentecostals in 2014, comprising nearly one-fourth of all Christians. There were only 63 million Pentecostals in 1970, and the number is expected to reach 800 million by 2025.” …”

 

Source:

https://churchandstate.org.uk/2018/05/one-fourth-of-christians-speak-in-tongues/

 

 

  1. d) Shocking to most Pentecostals, the “FirstSpeaking in “Tongues” claimed by Agnes is ‘not tongues of angels nor groaning in the spirit type’ but actual HUMAN LANGUAGE (namely CHINESE LANGUAGE as claimed by Mr. Parham in quote prior too here) which AGREES with CHURCH FATHERS and BIBLE VERSES earlier say quoted on Page 774 earlier. Can you see it?

 

  1. e) Strangely, I do “not” see any evidence of the ‘groaning in spirit type or speaking in language of angels type of speaking in tongues’ in the FIRST TIME by THEIR OWN QUOTES by PARHAM and MS. AGNES even. Can you see it?

 

  1. f) Regarding the latter speaking in tongues type say like NOT HUMAN LANGUAGE but “groaning in the spirit type or even language of angels (who knows?)” I DO NOT JUDGE THEM EITHER WAY as I DON’T RISK WANT TO RISK COMMITTING THE UNFORGIVABLE BLASPHEMY AGAINST the HOLY SPIRIT either way (by affirming somethings false nor by refuting something true, Matthew 12:30 – 32) and so Let God Decide One Day.

 

  1. g) Some Pentecostals speak in tongues, while others do “not” speak in tongues who think that “not” all speaking in tongues are real either where some are just “human expressions by will” while others point some of it to something more dangerous but I am neutral about it, example quotes:

 

“… While many renewalists say they attend religious services where speaking in tongues is a common practice, fewer tend to say that they themselves regularly speak or pray in tongues. In fact, in six of the 10 countries surveyed, more than four-in-ten pentecostals say they never speak or pray in tongues. …”

Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2006/10/05/spirit-and-power/

 

“… Wheaton Theology report says: “There were 631 million Pentecostals in 2014, comprising nearly one-fourth of all Christians. There were only 63 million Pentecostals in 1970, and the number is expected to reach 800 million by 2025.” …”

Source:

https://churchandstate.org.uk/2018/05/one-fourth-of-christians-speak-in-tongues/

 

  1. ii) Is there a “dangerous” type of “Speaking in Tongues” Movement?

 

Well, strangely it’s “not” the ‘non-Charismatics’ that WARNED of this BUT YOUR OWN PENTECOSTAL Father of SPEAKING IN TONGUES Gift FOUNDER, Mr. Charles Fox Parham himself who GAVE THESE WARNINGS, please compare:

 

  1. a) Azusa Street Revival approved as the Source of the Founding of the “Assemblies of God” Church for example

 

“… Many existing Wesleyan-holiness denominations adopted the Pentecostal message, such as the Church of God in Christ, and the Pentecostal Holiness Church. The formation of new denominations also occurred, motivated by doctrinal differences between Wesleyan Pentecostals and their Finished Work counterparts, such as the Assemblies of God formed in 1914 and the Pentecostal Church of God formed in 1919. An early doctrinal controversy led to a split between Trinitarian and Oneness Pentecostals, the latter founded the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World in 1916 and the United Pentecostal Church in 1945.[33] …”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azusa_Street_Revival

 

The “Assemblies of GodDenomination got their “Speaking in Tongues Gift” NOT from Mr. Charles Parham (NOR from his student the First Person to Speak in Tongues, Ms. Agnes Ozman) but rather from the “Azusa Street Revival”

 

Here’s an example quote from the official “Assemblies of God” Website in their own words as follows too:

 

“… April 2016 marks the 110th anniversary of the beginning of the historic revival on Azusa Street in Los Angeles. The Azusa Street Revival served as a major catalyst for the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements around the world. Today, one out of every four Christians worldwide would identify as Pentecostal or Charismatic. … At the turn of the 20th century, saints gathered in another room and were empowered by the Spirit. We know it as the Azusa Street Mission, where the revival that effectively birthed Pentecostalism around the world took place. Most of the members of the Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements can trace their historical roots and spiritual heritage back to that Azusa Street Mission and the revival that lasted night and day for three years. … The presiding elder — a black preacher, blind in one eyenamed William J. Seymour, served by divine appointment rather than political manipulation. The Mission had an integrated leadership and congregation and, although it was decades before the American Civil Rights Movement, had an amazing lack of discrimination. … Is it any wonder that, with this love for God’s family, the roots of most Pentecostal denominations and the modern charismatic renewal can be traced back to Azusa Street? From there a torch was passed to the present day. …”

 

Source: https://news.ag.org/features/what-azusa-had-and-we-need

 

“… In 1905, William J. Seymour, the one-eyed 34-year-old son of freed slaves, was a student of well-known Pentecostal preacher Charles Parham and an interim pastor for a small holiness church in Topeka, Kansas.[5] Seymour inherited from Parham the belief that baptism with the Holy Spirit was the third work of grace, following the new birth (first work of grace) and entire sanctification (second work of grace).[6][7] …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azusa_Street_Revival

 

 

  1. b) Pentecostal Father and Speaking in Tongues Gift Vessel Mr. Charles Fox Parham called this “Azusa Street Revival” via William J. Seymour, an African-American preacher as something of the “fake or equivalent” and they NEVER RECONCILED, example quotes:

 

“… By October 1906, Charles Parham was invited to speak for a series of meetings at Azusa Street but was quickly un-invited.

 

Arriving at Azusa Street, [Parham] recoiled in disgust at the racial intermingling. He was aghast that black people were not in their “place,” and simply could not abide “white people imitating unintelligent, crude negroisms of the Southland, and laying it on the Holy Ghost.”45 Parham made his way through the crowd, stood at the pulpit, and delivered a stinging rebuke: “God is sick at his stomach!” He proceeded to explain that God would not stand for such “animalism.” When it was clear that the majority of the Azusa Street Mission would not accept Parham’s leadership, Parham left with an estimated two to three hundred followers and opened a rival campaign at a nearby Women’s Christian Temperance Union building.[26] …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azusa_Street_Revival

 

“… But while the Azusa Street Revival weathered the external storm of criticism, it soon began to unravel internally. Perhaps the handwriting was on the wall as early as October 1906, when Parham came to preach. He was shocked by many manifestations being portrayed as from the Holy Spirit, but were really, he believed, of the flesh or demonic. Parham and Seymour split and never reconciled. Although Seymour, from that time forward, eclipsed Parham as the dominant personality in the movement. Shockwaves also came over racial tension. In the early months of Azusa Street, blacks and whites, men and women, shared leadership, although blacks were predominate. But soon Seymour asked all the Hispanics to leave and eventually wrote by-laws that prevented anyone except African-Americans from holding office in the Mission. By 1909 the revival was spent, and eventually faded into history. Even the mission building was razed after Seymour’s death. However, even as the Azusa Street Revival’s fires died out, a movement had ignited that would not die. Pentecostalism had spread all over the world. Denominations such as the Assemblies of God and the United Pentecostal Church had been formed, and a large segment of the American church would forever view Azusa Street as the high water mark of modern Christianity. …”

 

Source:  https://tottministries.org/pentecostalism/?print=print

 

Should I even comment?

 

Can you see it?

 

It is well recorded that the Mr. Parham did “not” agree with Mr. Seymour’s “Speaking in Tongues Gift” Context of “Worship” even calling it some pretty ‘harsh words’ there including ‘racism slurs’ and even ‘potential Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit’ (Let God Decide).

 

So, if God instituted the “Speaking in Tongues Gift” for entire “modern Christianity” via these two men, their affirmation of each other’s gifts in this area alone (“Context“) looks ‘shaky’, isn’t it?

 

Well as they say, perhaps God uses imperfect men and so similarly these incidents or words itself should shut the mouths of careless Charismatic Pastors/Prophets since even their “Founders” in the “Context of this Gift of Speaking in Tongues” even may have “Condemned” each other as “fake” or equivalent in the harshest way.

 

Please bear in mind that these are the “sources” of the “gift of speaking in tongues” which every “speaking in tongue believer” then obtains via the laying of hands in succession into their denominations/individuals in time. Can you see it?

 

Mr. Parham is the main one as Mr. Seymour got the teaching from him and it is Mr. Parham’s laying of hands which caused the first claim of ‘Speaking in Tongues Gift in Ms. Agnes Ozman’ which is a little strange in one aspect as the accounts by himself even only claims that ‘he got the gift later’.

 

I mean, he didn’t have that gift but laid hands on Ms. Agnes and she got it and others and only later Mr. Parham got that gift.

 

Strange but possible and so I am neutral as I have said before.

 

 

 

Example quote in Mr. Parham’s “own words” too for this part:

 

  1. b) i) Ms. Agnes’ Testimony that she got the Baptism of the Holy Spirit First on 1 January 1901

 

“… On watch night we had a blessed service, praying that God’s blessing might rest upon us as the New Year came in. During the first day of 1901 the presence of the Lord was with us in a marked way stilling our hearts to wait upon Him for greater things. The spirit of prayer was upon us in the evening. It was nearly seven o’clock on this first of January that it came into my heart to ask Brother Parham to lay his hands upon me that I might receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It was as his hands were laid upon my head that the Holy Spirit fell upon me and I began to speak in tongues, glorifying God. I talked several languages, and ir was clearly manifest when a new dialect was spoken. I had the added joy and glory my heart longed for and a depth of the presence of the Lord within that I had never known before. it was as if rivers of living waters were preceeding from my innermost being. …” – Ms. Agnes Ozman [ Personal Testimony of being the first person to Receive the Holy Ghost at “Stones Folly” in Topeka, Kansas. (January 1, 1901) Printed in the Apostolic Faith April – 1951 ]

 

Source:

https://www.apostolicarchives.com/articles/article/8801925/173171.htm

 

  1. b) ii) Mr. Charles Parham’s Testimony of Receiving this Gift of Speaking in Tongues only on the “later” date 3 January 1901 (Founder of Pentecostalism and Charismatic Gift of Speaking in Tongues)

 

“… On the night of January 3rd, I preached at the Free Methodist Church in the City of Topeka, telling them what had already happened, and that I expected upon returning the entire school to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. On returning to the school with one of the students, we ascended to the second floor, and passing down along the corridor in the upper room, heard most wonderful sounds. The door was slightly ajar, the room was lit with only coal oil lamps. As I pushed open the door I found the room was filled with a sheen of white light above the brightness of the lamps … After praising God for some time, I asked Him for the same blessing. He distinctly made it clear to me that He raised me up and trained me to declare this mighty truth to the world, and if i was willing to stand for it, with all the persecutions, heardships, trials, slander, scandal that it would entail, He would give me the blessing. And I said, “Lord I will, if You will just give me this blessing.” Right then there came a slight twist in my throat, a glory fell over me and I began to worship Gos in the Swedish tongue, which later changed to other languages and continued so until the morning. …” – Mr. Charles Parham, Founder of Pentecostalism and Gift of Speaking in Tongues in Modern Charismatic Christianity (“The Latter Rain”, As Told By The Late Charles F. Parham, Re-printed in The Apostolic Faith – April 1951)

 

Source:

 

https://www.apostolicarchives.com/articles/article/8801925/173163.htm

 

As I said, I am “neutral” about it but some type of false end time Charismatic Christianity or another type of Christianity which does ‘… miracles in His Name, Prophesying, casting out demons …’ which gets denied for “Lawlessness” in some way, Verses:

 

“… 21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22MANY will say to Me IN THAT DAY, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not PROPHESIED IN YOUR NAME, CAST OUT DEMONS IN YOUR NAME, and DONE MANY WONDERS IN YOUR NAME?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I NEVER KNEW YOU; depart from Me, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS!’ 24“Therefore WHOEVER HEARS THESE SAYINGS OF MINE, and DOES THEM, I will liken him to a WISE MAN WHO BUILT HIS HOUSE ON THE ROCK: …” (Matthew 7:21 – 24, NKJV)

 

5) Pentecostal Father and Speaking in Tongues Gift Vessel Mr. Charles Fox Parham never believed in Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT Doctrine)

 

Yes, this comes as a ‘shock’ to most ‘Charismatic Churches’ simply because their “Source of the Gift of Speaking in Tongues Movement Founder, Mr. Charles Fox ParhamNEVER believed in an ETERNAL HELL but rather believed in ANNIHILATION, to quote:

 

“… Other beliefs: Parham believed in annihilationism—that the wicked are not eternally tormented in hell but are destroyed. According to this belief, immortality is conditional, and only those who receive Christ as Lord and Savior will live eternally. He stated in 1902, “Orthodoxy would cast this entire company into an eternal burning hell; but our God is a God of love and justice, and the flames will reach those only who are utterly reprobate“.[5] He also believed in British Israelism, an ideology maintaining that the Anglo-Saxon peoples were among the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel.[7] In addition, Parham subscribed to rather unorthodox views on creation. He believed God took two days to create humans—non-whites on the sixth day and whites on the eighth.[37] Parham also supported Theodor Herzl and the struggle for a Jewish homeland, lecturing on the subject often. Oneness Pentecostals would agree with Parham’s belief that Spirit baptized (with the evidence of an unknown tongue) Christians would be taken in the rapture. But his teachings on British Israelism and the annihilation of the wicked were vehemently rejected.[19] …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fox_Parham

 

So, how many “Charismatic Christians” have heard their “own Pastor/Bible School” Teaching these “Truths” regarding their Founder, Mr. Charles Fox Parham (from whom the ‘Gift of Speaking in Tongues and the entire Pentecostal and Charismatic’ movement now which amounts to say 500 million people worldwide as some estimate) originates from but also believed in these:

 

  1. Annihilation for the Wicked (not Eternal Conscious Torment)

 

Some Charismatic Churches/Pentecostal Churches like to say that if you don’t believe in “Eternal Conscious Torment”, then you are led by the Devil and will go to Eternal Hell.

 

If this is true, is Mr. Charles Parham, Father of Pentecostal Christianity on his way to Eternal Hell (since he believed in Annihilation) but God Still Chose him to play some most important role in the conversion of most of the 500 million Pentecostals today (by estimate) somehow tracing their ‘modern ways’ to this man eventually, can you see it?

 

So that’s why I wrote also the #EternalHellAnnihilationUniversalismBook to present “possible” views for each likewise via the “Apostolic Father’s Writings only“. I believe strongly in “Eternal Hell” but I’m “not” sure whether this conclusively means “Annihilation of Existence”, “Eternal Conscious Torment” or even “Eternal Loss of Heaven/Rewards/Gradation etc.”.

 

Can you see it?

 

As I have said many times, whatever God Decides One Day, I accept it.

 

 

Before judging us harshly please remember that Mr. Charles Fox Parham (whom every “Tongues Speaking” Charismatic Christian must approve that he is SAVED simply because it was through ‘his laying of hands’ which resulted in the “first” ever Ms. Agnes ‘speaking in tongues’ in this ‘Revival’, remember?) and so if he can err in any one of these doctrines including “annihilation“, then ‘how come the Holy Spirit of God filled that lady through his laying of hands or how come he was NEVER CORRECTED of THESE ERRORS (if any) despite all these’?

 

So perhaps GOD USES US and FILLS US WITH HIS HOLY SPIRIT by HIS GRACE DESPITE OUR THEOLOGICAL ERRORS for if not, there is “no” way of defending Mr. Parham even without which the entire Charismatic Movement risks being founded on a ‘hoax’.

 

Can you see it?

 

  1. British Israelism, an ideology maintaining that the Anglo-Saxon peoples were among the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel.

 

iii. He believed God took two days to create humansnon-whites on the sixth day and whites on the eighth

 

  1. Parham also supported Theodor Herzl and the struggle for a Jewish homeland, lecturing on the subject often.

 

  1. Parham’s belief that Spirit baptized (with the evidence of an unknown tongue) Christians would be taken in the rapture

 

Some scholarly quotes regarding Parham’s belief in these can be seen in example paper below:

 

https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9780822376873-019/pdf

 

 

 

Would you dare quote Parham’s mistakes in the above (if you as a Charismatic Christian didn’t agree with any of the above) by quoting this Verse below:

 

“… Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, ,…” (1 Timothy 4:1, NKJV)

 

So is “… Pentecostal Father and Speaking in Tongues Gift Vessel Charles Fox Parham …” Saved if you didn’t agree with any of his doctrines above or is it okay for him to be doctrinally wrong but myself to be condemned eternally to hell if any of my doctrines were wrong?

 

Can you imagine that this is the man, Mr. Charles Parham, God Chose to convert 500 million Pentecostals eventually today (but about a 6 in 10 only believe in the ‘speaking in tongues gift’ – estimated) because it is all traced to him eventually (the various branches of Pentecostal Christianity in case you didn’t realize; at least a lot of it). Example Pentecostal supporting Quote for this part:

 

“… On this day, January 1, 1901, Agnes Ozman did neither. She spoke an unknown language for the first time in her life.

 

You could say it was Charles Parham’s doing. Parham was convinced that if the church was to meet the challenges of the twentieth century, an outpouring of the Holy Spirit was needed. He expressed his views through a bimonthly paper called Apostolic Faith. Believing that divine healing was possible, he founded the Bethel Healing Home in Topeka where those who were sick could gather to unite in prayer for healing. Around 1900, he left Topeka expressly to hear for himself what the best-known holiness preachers of the day had to say–men such A. B. Simpson, Alexander Dowie, and Frank Standford. On his brief tour, Parham encountered students who spoke in tongues.

 

Back in Topeka, he founded Bethel Bible School. It opened in October 1900 in a rambling house known as “Stone’s Folly,” because its previous owner had not been able to complete it. Among the forty students who gathered under Parham’s teaching was Agnes Ozman. …”

Source:
https://www.christianity.com/church/church-history/timeline/1901-2000/was-agnes-ozman-speaking-chinese-11630666.html

 

As I said, instead of these hypocritical games, we shouldn’t simply throw words to attack Christians with Bible Verses unless they say ‘God told them directly that’ (which is the ONLY THING I POINT AS VERY DANGEROUS) and “not” when ‘someone claims their views because the latter is just human opinion which we could err’.

 

Can you please see the “difference” and stop misinterpreting us as “judgmental in the wrong way”?

 

 

6) Scepticism

 

Firstly, Mr. Charles Parham Testified that Ms. Agnes Spoke and Wrote Chinese upon the First Time Baptism of the Holy Spirit to get the “Gift of Speaking in Tongues” as per his claim in ‘his own words below’:

 

“… Sister Agnes N. Ozman, (now LaBerge) asked that hands might be laid upon her to receive the Holy Spirit as she hoped to go to foreign fields. At first I refused, not having the experience myself. Then being further pressed to do it humbly in the name of Jesus, I laid my hand upon her head and prayed. I had scarcely repeated three dozen sentences when a glory fell upon her, a halo seemed to surround her head and face, and she began speaking in the Chinese language, and was unable to speak English for three days. When she tried to write in English to tell us of her experience she wrote the Chinese, copies of which we still have in newspapers printed at that time. …” – Mr. Charles Parham, Founder of Pentecostalism and Gift of Speaking in Tongues in Modern Charismatic Christianity (“The Latter Rain”,  As Told By The Late Charles F. Parham, Re-printed in The Apostolic Faith – April 1951)

 

Source:

 

https://www.apostolicarchives.com/articles/article/8801925/173163.htm

 

 

 

However, some Protestants are “not” so sure if this claim is true simply because as per image (in link above), they say it doesn’t ‘fully look like Chinese’ (as the image is provided by the Charismatic Supporters in link above) but no one knows for sure, example scepticism quote:

 

“… On New Year’s night, Agnes Ozman was the first student to allegedly speak in tongues. As Parham tells it, “she began speaking in the Chinese language, and was unable to speak English for three days. When she tried to write in English to tell us of her experience she wrote in the Chinese language, copies of which we still have in newspapers printed at that time” (p. 63, emphasis added).

 

I searched for examples of her writings and found this (see here). That looks like scribble to me, but I don’t know Chinese, so I sent the pic to a Chinese friend from college.

 

He said, “I have to admit, a number of stroke-clusters here seeming to bear the resemblance to a character—one may argue they are like certain Chinese characters ‘in the making.’”

 

A Chinese character is made up of identifiable “componential strokes,” he explained. “I’ve to say a lot of those strokes are present, esp on the left-half of your pic.”

 

He thought the first character bore a resemblance to “Ephesians.”

 

But when I asked if there was a discernible message, let alone a Biblical one, he said there was not. Ozman’s “Chinese” had no message in Chinese. (Why did Parham claim it was Chinese? Why did she? How did they know? Because it sounded vaguely Chinese?) I have to conclude, then, that if that is one of her writings, then Ozman’s claim of speaking in tongues has been falsified. Based on the only objective evidence left, her experience was not genuine. But what about the others?

 

As I mentioned, Parham thought the sign was speaking a known language. He thought that was essential for missions. He also thought it was a waste of time and resources for missionaries to learn a foreign language by conventional means:

 

“And how much better it would be for our modern missionaries to obey the injunction of Jesus to tarry for the same power: instead of wasting thousands of dollars, and often their lives in the vain attempt to become conversant in almost impossible tongues which the Holy Ghost could so freely speak. Knowing all languages, He could as easily speak through us one, as another, were our tongues and vocal cords fully surrendered to His domination” (pp. 71-72).

 

Many early Pentecostals took this to heart. They truly believed that they spoke Zulu, or Chinese, or Hindi, and went around the world expecting to be able to speak to the natives in their language. How did that work out?

 

Larry Martin, the editor, adds a telling footnote:

 

“In the earliest days of the Pentecostal outpouring, it was common to believe that missionaries would go to foreign countries and be able to minister without learning the language of the land. Parham and others believed that the gift of tongues would be sufficient. Unfortunately, many sincere missionaries were disappointed and left their field of labor without the success for which they had hoped” (p. 72, note).

 

In fact, if this Grace to You article is right, things went very poorly for those early Pentecostal missionaries …”

 

Source:  https://faithalone.org/blog/charles-parham-on-tongues-and-missions/

 

 

7) Charity Doctrine in Mr. Charles Fox Parham

 

Mr. Charles Fox Parham lived out the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle at least at the start of his Bible School and so Preaching this #CharityDoctrine is something done by the Founder of this Pentecostal Movement in an ‘extreme way’ too as per quote below (so if we preach it likewise ‘harshly’ to provoke more good works as per Hebrews 10:24noCharismatics can condemn us either for this as ‘legalism or other man made excuses’ as their FOUNDER himself did & taught this as follows “IN HIS OWN WORDS“):

 

“… We Opened the Bible School at Topeka, Kansas in October, 1900. To which we invited all ministers and Christians who were willing to forsake all, sell what they had, give it away, and enter the school for study and prayer, where all of us together might trust God for food, fuel, rent and clothing. The purpose of this school was to fit men and women to go to the ends of the earth to preach, “This Gospel of the Kingdom.” Matt. 24:14 as a witness to all the world before the end of the age.

 

Our purpose in this Bible School was not to learn these things in our heads only but have each thing in the Scriptures wrought out in our hearts. And that every command that Jesus Christ gave should be literally obeyed.

 

No one paid board ot tuition, the poor were fed, the sick were entertained and healed, and from day to day, week to week, and month to month, with no sect or mission or known source of income back of us, God supplied our every need, and He was our all sufficiency in all things. …” – Mr. Charles Parham, Founder of Pentecostalism and Gift of Speaking in Tongues in Modern Charismatic Christianity (“The Latter Rain”, As Told By The Late Charles F. Parham, Re-printed in The Apostolic Faith – April 1951)

 

Source:  https://www.apostolicarchives.com/articles/article/8801925/173163.htm

 

8) How about those Christians who do “not” Speak in Tongues?

 

I will let the “First” person in Modern Christianity to have claimed to “Speak in Tongues“, Ms. Agnes herself show how SHE CLAIMS THAT GOD CORRECTED HER of THIS WRONG THEOLOGY MUCH LATER IN LIFE which proves that ‘Speaking in Tongues Gift (even if true) DOES NOT PROVE any THEOLOGICAL ACCURACY either’ as the “Source” (‘First Person’) ever to Receive this gift as per these claims herself “CONFESSES in HER OWN WORDS BELOW:

 

“… Later in her life Agnes admitted that she had been wrong to believe that all people would speak in tongues when they were baptized with the Holy Spirit. Writing in The Latter Rain Evangel of January 1909 she wrote, “Some time ago I tried but failed to have an article printed which I wrote calling attention to what I am sure God showed me was error. The article maintained that tongues was not the only evidence of the Spirit’s Baptism. When that article was refused I was much tempted by Satan, but God again graciously showed me He had revealed it to me, and satisfied my heart in praying that He might reveal this truth to others who would spread it abroad. For awhile [sic] after the baptism I got into spiritual darkness, because I did as I see so many others are doing these days, rested and reveled in tongues and other demonstrations instead of resting alone in God.”[8]* …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_Ozman

 

*[8] “When The Latter Rain First Fell: The First One to Speak in Tongues”. In The Latter Rain Evangel, January 1909, p.2. Available online at pentecostalarchives.org

 

Conclusion – Billy Graham example

 

 

As per Quote in Image by “Billy Graham”, we prove yet again that believing in a non-Elect Salvation “Possibility” makes “no” one demonic or satanic but just a “human thought even if it turns out to be wrong” unless one claims that ‘God Told him directly about it’ or by ‘Quoting the Most Blessed Holy Spirit of God Directly’ in which case one better be right 100% as only then the level of Judgment for such ‘claims’ risks to be either true or possible Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:30 – 32 which is Unforgivable if wrong (Let God Decide) or it could be equivalent to talking “His Name in Vain” (Breaking One of the 10 Commandments, No. 3, Exodus 20:7).

 

The difference is that many of the Speaking in Tongues type of Charismatic Christianity actually carries a ‘way Greater Risk’ (but they don’t realize it) especially since for almost ‘everything uttered by them’ they like to claim ‘the Holy Spirit told me…’ which God has Warned Against and so could be either the ‘Unforgivable Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit if wrong’ (Matthew 12:30 – 3) or ‘Taking His Name in Vain’ (Breaking the 10 Commandments, No. 3, Exodus 20:7), let God Decide (as Discussed in the starting pages of the #IgnoredChristianDoctrineBook), to quote some key parts:

 

“… 31Behold, I am AGAINST THE PROPHETS,” says the Lord, “WHO USE THEIR TONGUES AND SAY, ‘HE SAYS.’ 32Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” says the Lord, “and tell them, and cause MY PEOPLE to ERR BY THEIR LIES AND BY THEIR RECKLESSNESS. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all,” says the Lord. 33“So when these people or the prophet or the priest ask you, saying, ‘What is the [h]oracle of the Lord?’ you shall then say to them, [i]‘What oracle?’ I WILL EVEN FORSAKE YOU,” says the Lord. 34“And AS FOR THE PROPHET and THE PRIEST and the people who say, ‘The [j]oracle of the Lord!’ I WILL EVEN PUNISH THAT MAN AND HIS HOUSE. …” (Jeremiah 23:31 – 34, NKJV)

 

Comments:

 

  1. If a Prophet which claimed ‘… God told me …’ really heard from God, you and he are safe.

 

  1. However if a Prophet which claimed ‘… God told me …’ actually did “not” hear from God, you and he are may be in Danger of “… I WILL EVEN FORSAKE YOU …” and “… I WILL EVEN PUNISH THAT MAN AND HIS HOUSE. …” respectively as the Verses above Reveal.

 

Solution to counter such “arrogance”?

 

If a man say ‘his own opinion as oracle’ (implied can be wrong too), these Bible Verses continue and Reveal that he may “not” be punished because ‘his own word is his oracle’ meaning God’s Name was “not” taken in Vain but just Human error where the opposite of taking His Name Vain in this is ‘not’ a temporary shame but a “PERPETUAL / EVERLASTING REPROACH / SHAME” (so is it really worth the risk?) as these Same Verses in Jeremiah earlier, continue consecutively next regarding this same Topic, same Context as follows:

 

“… 36And the [k]ORACLE OF THE LORD YOU SHALL MENTION NO MORE. For EVERY MAN’S WORD WILL BE HIS ORACLE, for you have perverted the words of the living God, the Lord of hosts, our God. 37Thus you shall say to the prophet, ‘What has the Lord answered you?’ and, ‘What has the Lord spoken?’ 38But since you say, ‘The [l]oracle of the Lord!’ therefore thus says the Lord: ‘Because you say this word, “The oracle of the Lord!” and I have sent to you, saying, “Do not say, ‘The oracle of the Lord!’ ” 39therefore behold, I, even I, WILL UTTERLY FORGET YOU and FORSAKE YOU, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and will cast you out of My presence. 40And I WILL BRING AN EVERLASTING REPROACH UPON YOU, AND A PERPETUAL SHAME, WHICH SHALL NOT BE FORGOTTEN.’ ” …” (Jeremiah 23:36 – 40, NKJV)

 

 

 

Just like us, if they could have just quoted “we think it’s possible” (showing that we have human opinions which we are not sure if it’s true or not and so we don’t build a doctrine around it but a possibility only even if wrong, I see no risks) as this case of even Blessed Billy Graham (considered the Greatest Evangelist of the modern time) proves so clearly in the following pages next in his own words regarding non-Elect Salvation Possibility for some non-Christians (where video recordings etc. are shown by Christians themselves of him saying all that, so it’s an irrefutable proof and not lies). Can you see it?

 

Non-Elect Salvation Possibility – Blessed Billy Graham affirmed Hope for good non-Christians too

 

Example Video: https://youtu.be/drt5VPfnnms

 

 

Indeed, late in life, the World Famous Evangelist Blessed Billy Graham himself affirmed that good non-Christians may be Saved (which we understand to be a ‘Non-Elect Salvation’ as we have discussed with First Christianity quotes from Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons to the Shepherd of Hermas Scripture or even St. Athanasius the Great in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook  in Pages 220 to 240,  Pages 478 – 483 and Pages 591 to 604.

 

So, isn’t Blessed Billy Graham one of the most profoundly Anointed Man of God in all of Modern Protestantism?

 

Is he going to be hearing ‘I never knew you’ or is he revealing Deep Truths from Holy Scripture as he understood it as well from the Bible for example regarding the Mysterious surprised sheep as Matthew 25:31 – 46 describes literally?

As usual, some protestants affirm that Blessed Billy Graham and all Roman Catholics & other denominations of Christianity are going to an eternal Hell too, example in link below:

 

https://reformationcharlotte.org/2018/12/04/that-time-billy-graham-preached-universalism-and-became-a-heretic/

 

Here’s an example quote from link above:

 

“… Billy Graham was undoubtedly an ecumenicalist as he praised the pope as his “brother” and treated Roman Catholicism as a valid expression of the Christian faith. Speaking of Pope John Paul II after his death, Graham stated, I think he’s with the Lord, because he believed. He believed in the Cross. That was his focus throughout his ministry, the Cross, no matter if you were talking to him from personal issue or an ethical problem, he felt that there was the answer to all of our problems, the cross and the resurrection. And he was a strong believer. …”

 

No Verse in the Bible condemns Christ Centered Universalism as Hoping and Praying for it is God’s Will (1 Timothy 2:1, 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 Timothy 4:10) and thus even if God Decides Eternal-Hell, we can Petition for it and God can Decide into the ages to come whether to let His Mercy to Triumph and End any Judgment Sentence (James 2:13, Romans 11:30 – 32) as that’s what a Christian ought to Try Always & it’s not a Heresy for His Sons to Ask into the ages to come too (Ephesians 2:7), example First Christianity quote:

 

“… and yet to recognize that His kingdom is ETERNAL, that is to say, the kingdom of the Son, for in the Name of Jesus EVERY KNEE shakes in HEAVEN, on the EARTH, and IN HELL. (Philip. 2) The Apostle St. Peter confirms this truth when he says:” No other name under heaven was given to MEN by which we were to BE SAVED.” (Acts 4) And did not the Lord Himself say to His disciples, “Until now you have not asked anything in my name, ask and I will answer you?” (John. 16:24) The REIGN of the Son therefore consists in the fact that it is in HIS NAME that ALL MEN are SAVED, and that ALL the PRAYERS addressed to Him until the end of the world are ANSWERED. But when ALL CREATURES have confessed Jesus Christ WILLINGLY or by FORCE, and have been subjected to the power against which they have resisted, then the MYSTERY of ONE GOD will be REVEALED to ALL MEN, and all thanksgivings will go back to God the Father, the principle of all things, that ALL PREACHING CEASE, ONE GOD be recognized in the MYSTERY of the TRINITY. … ” – Blessed Ambrosiaster (literally in Latin: “would-be Ambrose”), Roman Clergy active at Rome during the reign of Pope Damasus (c.366 AD – c. 384 AD) (Written c. 366 – c. 384, Reply to Question 26, Commentary on the Gospel of Luke)

 

Source:

 

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/luke-commentary/ambrosiaster-questions-and-answers-on-the-gospel-of-luke

 

 

 

Conclusion – What did Blessed Billy Graham believe as Christian Faith?

 

 

To quote:

 

Quote 1—Are Muslims and Buddhists Saved? (an Interview with Robert Schuller)

 

Schuller: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?

 

Graham: Well, Christianity and being a true believer, you know, I think there’s the body of Christ, which comes from all the Christian groups around the world, or outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they’re conscious of it or not, they’re members of the body of Christ. And I don’t think that we’re going to see a great sweeping revival that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God’s purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that’s what God is doing today, He’s calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the nonbelieving world, they are members of the body of Christ because they’ve been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don’t have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they’re going to be with us in heaven.

 

Schuller: What I hear you saying is that it’s possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life even if they’ve been born in darkness and never had an exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you are saying?

 

Graham: Yes, it is because I believe that. I’ve met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they’ve believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they’ve tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.

 

Schuller: That’s fantastic, I’m so thrilled to hear you say that, there’s a wideness in God’s mercy.

 

Graham: There is. There definitely is.

 

 

Quote 2—Salvation without Christ? (an Interview with McCall’s Magazine)

 

I used to play God, but I can’t do that anymore. I used to believe pagans in far-off countries were lost—were going to hell—if they did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them. I no longer believe that. . . . I believe there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God—through nature, for instance—and plenty of other opportunities, therefore, of saying “yes” to God. (Graham later clarified what he meant here.).

 

Note: Blessed Billy Graham does not believe in other ways of Salvation but only through Christ but Christ can Save them where even He did not Scatter the Seed of the Gospel too as Matthew 25:24 and Matthew 25:26 Reveals (i. e. Possibly the ‘Non-Elect Salvation’ both Blessed Origen and Blessed St. Jerome of the Vulgate have affirmed too) as opposed to the Christian Seed Salvation (i. e. the ‘Elect Salvation’ as it is described in the Parable of the Sower, Matthew 13:1 -8, Matthew 13:18 – 30).

 

 

“… Also, by this which this servant dared to say, “Thou reapest where thou sowedst not,” [Matthew 25:26] we understand that the Lord accepts the good life of the Gentiles and of the Philosophers. …” –  Blessed St. Jerome of the Vulgate, Doctor of the Church who did the First Official Translation of the Bible out of Its Original Languages into Latin, Priest, Confessor, Secretary to Pope Damasus I (c. 347 AD – c. 420 AD)

 

Source [ Patristic Bible Commentary, Catena Aurea, Matthew 25:14 – 30, P. 853 ]:

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/matthew-commentary/catena-aurea-on-matthew/chapter-1/chapter-2/chapter-3/chapter-4/chapter-5/chapter-6/chapter-7/chapter-8/chapter-9/chapter-10/chapter-11/chapter-12/chapter-13/chapter-14/chapter-15/chapter-16/chapter-17/chapter-18/chapter-19/chapter-20/chapter-21/chapter-22/chapter-23/chapter-24/chapter-25

 

This is an example of “Doctrinal Possibility” because a First Christianity Quote like this was ‘Recorded’ hence was believed by ‘some early Christians or Church Fathers even’.

 

Quote 3—Should We Link America with the Kingdom of God?

 

Speaking as an American himself, Graham said: I came close to identifying the American way of life with the kingdom of God. Then I realized that God had called me to a higher kingdom than America. I have tried to be faithful to my calling as a minister of the gospel.4

 

The above is a short excerpt from ReGrace with the endnotes removed. The rest of the quotes by Graham — including clarifying remarks he made about some of them — are included in the book.

 

To order the book, go to ReGrace: What the Shocking Beliefs of the Great Christians Can Teach Us Today.

 

Here is the Back Cover Description:

 

The church is tired of seeing Christians act ungraciously toward one another when they disagree. Social media has added to the carnage. Christians routinely block each other on Facebook because of doctrinal disagreements. The world watches the blood-letting, and the Christian witness is tarnished.

But what if every Christian discovered that their favorite teacher in church history had blind spots and held to some false–and even shocking–views?

Bestselling author Frank Viola argues that this simple awareness will soften Christians when they interact with each other in the face of theological disagreements.

 

In ReGrace, he uncovers some of the shocking beliefs held by faith giants like C.S. Lewis, Luther, Calvin, Moody, Spurgeon, Wesley, Graham, and Augustine–not to downgrade or dismiss them, but to show that even “the greats” in church history didn’t get everything right.

Knowing that the heroes of our faith sometimes got it wrong will empower us to treat our fellow Christians with grace rather than disdain whenever we disagree over theology.

 

Source: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankviola/billygraham/

 

Peace to you

 

 

Numbers don’t lie – Christianity Statistics Test

 

 

Image taken from Wikipedia on 17 May 2022

Source:  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_denomination

Please remember that “Protestant” in the Picture includes a wide range of denominations who are “not” United with each other even with some “cults” too meaning the “local Church” one attends may be just a ‘fraction’ of it with many other varieties existing.

 

There are surely errors from one Protestant Denomination to the next when Compared because both claim theological points which “contradict” each other on some doctrinal areas eventually.

 

So, let God Decide who is right because as all of them have done some of the Great Commission in some way but as for accuracy, only God Knows where some may be more accurate in a theological part whilst another denomination in another area etc. but for me I follow more of the “Church Fathers and Protestant Foundersonly as described in the  #SafeRouteScripturallyBook for many reasons mentioned therein for both #Doctrine and #PossibilityofDoctrine (because we are “not” arrogant enough to claim that we got all our Doctrines right).

 

We know that the Roman Catholics and Orthodox denominations did a good job in preserving ancient Christian Writings especially those of the “Chiliasm Fathers of the Church” whom I follow most as they are the ‘earliest whose writings survive’ simply because both of these major denominations do “not” believe the same as them in many areas too as I have demonstrated in the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.

 

Simple Logic: If someone wants to “change” an ‘early Christian Writing’ back at that time even, then they would have changed it to be ‘similar to what they believe or add in those things which they believe’ which is clearly absent from all Chiliasm Father’s Endorsed Writing such as they have “no” Prayers to Virgin Mary or Equivalent and also have a heavy focus on the #milleniarism or “chiliasm” #eschatology doctrine too.

 

Peace to you

 

Hard Question – The Christian Dilemma

 

Between 500 AD to 1500 AD (roughly 1000 years) before the Protestant Reformation, there was “only” a Christianity which “Prayed to Virgin Mary”.

 

So, did the “Great Commission” get Fulfilled by the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Church during that time?

 

If “no” Christian were saved  with the praying to Virgin Mary Practice, then almost “no” one was Saved for 1000 years? If Christians were saved despite Praying to Virgin Mary back then, then some of them  could likewise be saved right now even despite this error, right?

 

So similarly a majority modern Protestant Christianity which evangelized their part of the world say about 100 years or less doing against New Testament Traditions even may be similar likewise as “not” being accurate in this part, right?

 

Hence I follow the earliest known Christian Writings only as explained in the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook for Doctrine or possible Doctrines likewise. Let God have Mercy on whomever He Wills.

 

If Truth is proven by money, number of Converts or number of years in existence or who Fulfilled more of the Great Commission, till today it’s still the Roman Catholics + Orthodox.

 

Perhaps the opposite is true namely the Most accurate Doctrines have the least Christians.

 

 

 

Charismatic Gifts in First Christianity and its History

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161734842517784

 

This has to be Written because many Protestants who don’t know Church History just “assume” that the “earliest Christians do the things they do”. Let’s see from both points of views how the ‘Charismatic Gifts’ are understood by the Great Christians before us.

 

Let’s Begin.

 

1) Martin Luther the First Protestant DID NOT BELIEVE that Charismatic Gifts continue till today

 

Yes,  Blessed Martin Luther the First Protestant who was a cessationist who did NOT BELIEVE even in ANY CHARISMATIC GIFTS to continue in CHURCH TODAY:

 

 

“… This visible outpouring of the Holy Spirit was necessary to the establishment of the early Church, as were also the miracles that accompanied the gift of the Holy Ghost… Once the Church had been established and properly advertised by these miracles, the visible appearance of the Holy Ghost ceased …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith

 

Source: https://christianityfaq.com/do-lutherans-speak-in-tongues/

 

The quote above can be found here too but you have to “pay” for it:

 

https://www.christianity.com/bible/commentary/luth/galatians/4

 

 

Comment: As I have explained earlier that I may “not” agree with Martin Luther on this since I do believe some gifts are operational in some Christians but let God Decide who is for real but the main point is this: By those “Charismatic Christians claims“, it looks like Martin Luther himself NEVER HAD THE PRESENCE OF GOD IN HIS LIFE BY THEIR STANDARDS. So is he saved?

 

Here are other Cessationists in Church History (more in link next), to quote:

 

“… Martin Luther, from whom we Protestants owe a great deal in his leadership of the 16th century Reformation. His teaching was a mixed bag concerning his statements on the gifts of the Spirit. He wrote of the continuation of gifts: “When you depart lay your hands upon the man again and say, These signs shall follow them that believe; they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover‘“.[9] But he also wrote as a cessationist in his commentary on Galatians 4:1-9, “Paul explained the purpose of these miraculous gifts of the Spirit in I Corinthians 14:22, ‘Tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not.’ Once the Church had been established and properly advertised by these miracles, the visible appearance of the Holy Ghost ceased”.[10] Which perspective belongs to Luther’s theology?

 

Another leader of the Reformation, John Calvin, wrote that “the gift of healing, like the rest of the miracles, which the Lord willed to be brought forth for a time, has vanished away in order to make the new preaching of the Gospel marvelous forever… It now has nothing to do with us, to whom the administering of such powers has not been committed”.[11] In his commentary on the Synoptic Gospels, writing of Mark 16:17[12] (“and these signs shall follow them that believe”), Calvin wrote, “When he says that believers will receive this gift, we must not understand this as applying to every one of them; for we know that gifts were distributed variously, so that the power of working miracles was possessed by only a few persons…. Though Christ does not expressly state whether he intends this gift [of miracles] to be temporary, or to remain perpetually in the Church, yet it is more probable that miracles were promised only for a time, in order to give lustre to the gospel while it was new or in a state of obscurity”.[13]

 

However, another early church father, Chrysostom (347-407), a name that means “golden mouth” as he was an eloquent speaker, had a cessationist perspective. He was a contemporary of Athanasius’s later life, was Archbishop of Constantinople and defender of orthodoxy. He wrote of spiritual gifts as being obscure in his understanding. In his homily on 1 Cor. 12:1-2, He wrote, “This whole place is very obscure: but the obscurity is produced by our ignorance of the facts referred to and by their cessation, being such as then used to occur but now no longer take place. And why do they not happen now? Why look now, the cause too of the obscurity has produced us again another question: namely, why did they then happen, and now do so no more?[6]

 

One of the greatest church fathers was St. Augustine, bishop of Hippo in northern Africa. He wrote that “in the earliest times, ‘the Holy Ghost fell upon them that believed: and they spake with tongues’, which they had not learned, ‘as the Spirit gave them utterance’. These were signs adapted to the time. For there behooved to be that betokening of the Holy Spirit in all tongues, to shew that the Gospel of God was to run through all tongues over the whole earth. That thing was done for a betokening, and it passed away”.[7]

 

In his later life, Augustine returned to a belief in the Lord’s supernatural ability to heal. …”

 

Source:

 

https://www.truthchallenge.one/blog/2010/06/20/cessationism-through-church-history/

 

2) Charles Spurgeon, the ‘Prince of Preachers’ Belief

 

  1. i) Charles Spurgeon Believed in the ‘Gift of Healing by Prayer’

 

Example: You can have one pastor preaching for their women in their Church to wear head covering when Praying doing Healing & Deliverance Ministry while on the other hand have another pastor doing the same healing and deliverance saying that women need not cover their heads when they pray in church even. The Bible Verses clearly Write that Women should do it and the earlier pastor is more accurate theologically on this point based on Christ’s Command (1 Corinthians 11 to 14).

 

Another example: despite teaching all these ‘strict Doctrine’ according to NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS, historical records Testify that Blessed Charles Spurgeon was used to do Miracles by God more than others and SO THEIR CLAIMS of HAVING SOME SPECIAL GIFTS only if WE DENY THESE BIBLE VERSES IS BASELESS (and hence the title ‘Prince of Preachers’ was conferred to him on account of his most widespread influence till today in Protestantism too), to quote:

 

Charles Spurgeon may have been used by GOD to HEAL MORE PEOPLE in MIRACLES despite all these ‘STRICT DOCTRINES he Preached and Believed’, to quote:

 

 

“… “Yet, NO MAN PROBABLY, IN ENGLAND or in AMERICA, IN THIS CENTURY, HAS EVER HEALED SO MANY PEOPLE as did MR. SPURGEON, although he was not himself a physician and never wrote prescriptions. He felt that there was UNEXPLAINABLE MYSTERY ABOUT THE WHOLE MATTER. Yet, he asserted that there was SOME POWER CONNECTED WITH PRAYER which ought to be used when persons were in pain and could be relieved by it.” from “The Life of Charles Haddon Spurgeon” by Russell H. Conwell. …”

 

Source (with more details):

https://www.healingandrevival.com/BioCHSpurgeon.htm

 

 

  1. ii) Charles Spurgeon Upheld all New Testament Traditions including NO Woman Pastors

 

Please note that Charles Spurgeon had his ‘Gift of Healing’ despite Preaching Harshly against ‘other (possible) gifts people claim’ and though he enforced NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS such as NO WOMEN PASTORS or that WOMEN MUST WEAR VEIL WHEN PRAYING etc. to quote:

 

“… But this commitment also meant that in areas where Scripture was clear, Spurgeon dared not trespass, no matter where his enlightened culture was going. In his sermon, “The Head of the Church,” Spurgeon declared,

 

When we meet together in church-meeting we cannot make laws for the Lord’s kingdom; we dare not attempt it. Such necessary regulations as may be made for carrying out our Lord’s commands, to meet for worship, and to proclaim the gospel, are commendable, because they are acts needful to obedience to his highest laws; but even these minor details are not tolerable if they clearly violate the spirit and mind of Jesus Christ. . . . Law-making in the church was finished in that day when the curse was pronounced on him who should take from or add to the word of God. Christ alone is the legislator of his church—none but he . . . has left to us his Statute-book, sufficient to guide us in every dilemma. …

 

or

 

Spurgeon believed that the preaching of the Word in the gathering of the church was restricted to men, along with the office of elders and deacons. At the same time, his predominant emphasis was on calling women to engage in ministry in all the other ways that were available to them.

 

When it came to the gathering of the church, Spurgeon believed that, according to Scripture, women were not to preach. Preaching on Matthew 8:14, 15, “First Healing and the Service,” Spurgeon commends the example of Peter’s mother-in-law:

 

But notice that what this good woman did was very appropriate. Peter’s wife’s mother did not get out of bed and go down the street and deliver an address to an assembled multitude. Women are best when they are quiet. I share the apostle Paul’s feelings when he bade women be silent in the assembly. Yet there is work for holy women, and we read of Peter’s wife’s mother that she arose and ministered to Christ. She did what she could and what she should. She arose and ministered to him. Some people can do nothing that they are allowed to do, but waste their energies in lamenting that they are not called on to do other people’s work. Blessed are they who do what they should do. It is better to be a good housewife, or nurse, or domestic servant, than to be a powerless preacher or a graceless talker. …”

 

Source (via Mr. Alex DiPrima is the Senior Pastor of Emmanuel Church in Winston Salem, NC. He holds a PhD from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in historical theology with an emphasis in the ministry of Charles Spurgeon & Mr. Geoff Chang serves as an assistant professor of church history and historical theology and is also the curator of the Spurgeon Library at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary):

 

https://www.9marks.org/article/charles-spurgeon-womens-ministry-and-female-preachers/

 

 

 

 

 

 

iii) Charles Spurgeon did NOT believe in the ‘modern version of speaking in tongues way’ NOR in ‘Progressive Revelations’

 

To quote:

 

“… “I have heard many fanatical persons say the Holy Spirit revealed this and that to them. Now that is very generally revealed nonsense. The Holy Ghost does not reveal anything fresh now. He brings old things to our remembrance. “He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance whatsoever I have told you.” The canon of revelation is closed; there is no more to be added. God does not give a fresh revelation, but he rivets the old one. When it has been forgotten, and laid in the dusty chamber of our memory, he fetches it out and cleans the picture, but does not paint a new one. There are no new doctrines, but the old ones are often revived. It is not, I say, by any new revelation that the Spirit comforts. He does so by telling us old things over again; he brings a fresh lamp to manifest the treasures hidden in Scripture; he unlocks the strong chests in which the truth had long lain, and he points to secret chambers filled with untold riches; but he coins no more, for enough is done. Believer! there is enough in the Bible for thee to live upon for ever.” …” – Blessed Charles Spurgeon (Prince of Preachers)

 

Source (official Spurgeon Pages):

 

https://hearspurgeon.com/5-2

 

or

 

https://www.spurgeon.org/resource-library/sermons/the-comforter/

 

We can be neutral and not support either Christianity in this Context if we are not sure as discussed in detail in post below to be ‘safe’ and ‘not accidentally speak any Blasphemy to the Holy Spirit’ either way:

 

 

 

There are plenty of other Great Evangelists who ‘actually’ brought the Gospel First Time into many foreign lands (even after the Church Fathers) who NEVER SPOKE IN TONGUES even, example quote:

 

“…  Many among the remainder of the milder ones went on to form the Assembly of God. From that time onward in the United States, many Pentecostals believe that if you do not speak in tongues, you have not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. To some this also means that you have not been regenerated. However, I have the full assurance that I was regenerated in 1925, even though I had not spoken in tongues. Likewise, many saints who never spoke in tongues have also been regenerated. D. L. Moody, C. H. Spurgeon, and John Nelson Darby never spoke in tongues. Martin Luther did not speak in tongues either. All these great men, although they did not speak in tongues, were regenerated. Hudson Taylor, the founder of China Inland Mission, also did not speak in tongues, yet you cannot say that he was not regenerated …”

 

Source:

 

https://www.ministrysamples.org/excerpts/THE-PROBLEM-OF-SPEAKING-IN-TONGUES.HTML

 

  1. iv) Charles Spurgeon may have believed that Gifts are generally ceased but sometimes some gifts can occur again as discussed in link below:

 

https://www.truthchallenge.one/blog/2018/08/22/c-h-spurgeons-conflicting-views-on-the-gifts-of-the-spirit/

 

However, it is important to note that Spurgeon speaks primarily of the ‘gift of healing’ or ‘word of knowledge’ etc. but NOT one quote in the above refers to the ‘gift of speaking in tongues (especially as per the modern way)‘ as Charles Spurgeon DID NOT practice that NOR endorsed that phenomena which was beginning to become popular too at that time (Can you see it? If someone says otherwise, please ask for quote and source and I will be corrected).

 

 

 

We know that Spurgeon  did not “Speak in Tongues” from quote in iii) earlier and  that he doesn’t believe that the Holy Spirit Reveals “new ways” (especially those  contrary to the Bible ones) in quote earlier too but don’t most ‘speaking in tongues Christians either do that or endorse someone doing that in some topic/way?’

 

Yes, Spurgeon does “not” believe in anyone adding ‘new modern ways to the Bible’ (example: could include practicing against New Testament Traditions as well):

 

“… Never dream that events are revealed to you by Heaven, or you may come to be like those idiots who dare impute their blatant follies to the Holy Spirit. If you feel your tongue itch to talk nonsense, trace it to the devil, not to the Spirit of God! Whatever is to be revealed by the Spirit to any of us is in the Word of God already—He adds nothing to the Bible, and never will. Let persons who have revelations of this, that, and the other, go to bed and wake up in their senses. …” – Blessed Charles Spurgeon (Prince of Preachers)

 

Source:

 

https://www.challies.com/quotes/spurgeon-on-mad-caps-and-semi-lunatics/

 

3) John Wesley Co-Founder of the Methodist Churches

 

  1. i) John Wesley believed in upholding New Testament Traditions

 

Blessed John Wesley didn’t allow Women Preaching from the Pulpit as sometimes quoted but only during “Divine Move“.

 

“… The impulses of the Holy Spirit, even in men really inspired, so suit themselves to their rational faculties, as not to divest them of the government of themselves, like the heathen priests under their diabolical possession. Evil spirits threw their prophets into such ungovernable ecstasies, as forced them to speak and act like madmen. But the Spirit of God left his prophets the clear use of their judgment, when, and how long, it was fit for them to speak, and never hurried them into any improprieties either as to the matter, manner, or time of their speaking.

 

  1. Let your women be silent in the churchesUnless they are under an extraordinary impulse of the Spirit. For, in other cases, it is not permitted them to speak – By way of teaching in public assemblies. But to be in subjection – To the man whose proper office it is to lead and to instruct the congregation. Gen. iii, 16.

 

  1. And even if they desire to learn anything – Still they are not to speak in public, but to ask their own husbands at home – That is the place, and those the persons to inquire of.

 

  1. Are ye of Corinth either the first or the only Christians? If not, conform herein to the custom of all the churches.

 

  1. Or spiritualEndowed with any extraordinary gift of the Spirit. Let him – Prove it, by acknowledging that I now write by the Spirit.

 

  1. Let him be ignorantBe it at his own peril.

 

  1. Therefore – To sum up the whole.

 

  1. Decently – By every individual. In order – By the whole church. …” – Blessed John Wesley Co-Founder of the Methodist Churches (Wesley’s Notes on the Bible)

 

Source: https://www.ccel.org/ccel/wesley/notes.i.viii.xv.html

 

Note: It is clear that even “Blessed John Wesley” understood these “Corinthians’ New  Testament Traditions to apply to all Christians and not the Corinthians Church only” as he remarks beautifully in point 36 above.

 

It is well known that he held to Male leadership despite his mother disobeying it (which didn’t influence his Theological Stand on it) will be a more appropriate sentence describing this. Please note carefully the highlighted phrase above by Blessed John Wesley’s own words in that unless extraordinary circumstances, it is “unlawful for women to speak in Church” which is taught in both in 1 Corinthians 14:33 – 34 and 1 Timothy 2:12.

 

Just because he allowed Special circumstances, the Methodist movement took it too far and out of context today claiming that he is the first in the Protestant movement to allow women to become pastors etc. He didn’t ordain her as a pastor and she (Sarah Crosby) preached at an orphanage, not the Church. If anything more he allowed, it’s certainly not based on any Bible Verses. To quote:

 

“… Methodist founder John Wesley (1703–1791) and Methodist theologian Adam Clarke (1762–1832) both upheld male headship, but allowed that spiritual Christian women could publicly speak in church meetings if they “are under an extraordinary impulse of the Spirit” (Wesley),[38] and that such were to obey that influence, and that “the apostle lays down directions in chap. 11 for regulating her personal appearance when thus employed.” (Clarke)[39] Puritan theologian Matthew Poole (1624–1679) concurred with Wesley, adding, “But setting aside that extraordinary case of a special afflatus, [strong Divine influence] it was, doubtless, unlawful for a woman to speak in the church.”[40]. Matthew Henry (1662–1714) in his commentary, entertains allowing “praying, and uttering hymns inspired” by women, as such “were not teaching”.[41] …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Church_history

 

How to trust a Church which doesn’t even obey New Testament Verses nor its Founders?

 

What kind of leadership would have followed?

 

In other words, if John Wesley was alive, none of those pastors who allow the opposite to the New Testament Traditions would have been ordained and those who adhere to  it would have been appointed.

 

Can you see it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

  1. ii) John Wesley “Prophesied” that a “Prosperity Gospel” type of Christianity is headed to “Hell” unless it Practices the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle

 

“… How then is it possible that Methodism, that is, the religion of the heart, though it flourishes now as a green bay tree, should continue in this state? For the Methodists in every place grow diligent and frugal; consequently they increase in goods. Hence, they proportionably increase in pride, in the desire of the flesh, the desire of the eyes, and the pride of life. So, although the FORM OF RELIGION REMAINS, THE SPIRIT IS SWIFTLY VANISHING AWAY (2 Timothy 3:5). Is there no way to prevent this? this continual declension of pure in effect, to grow rich! What way then, I ask again, can we take that OUR MONEY may NOT SINK US to the NETHERMOST HELL? There is one way, and there is no other under heaven. If those who gain all they can, and save all they can, will likewise GIVE ALL THEY CAN, then the more they gain, the more they will GROW IN GRACE , and the more treasure they will lay up in heaven,”. …”  – Blessed John Wesley, Founder of Methodism

 

Source:

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevin-deyoung/the-pastor-and-the-community-mark-dever/

 

iii) John Wesley also “Prophesied” or Revealed that the #CharityDoctrine is the HIGHEST CHRISTIAN SPIRITUAL GIFT as per 1 Corinthians 13 while ‘other spiritual gifts’ have a “risk” of creating “pride filled fanatics” who may lose sight of this “Agape Gift”

 

To quote:

 

“… Those who teach that some special phenomena such as speaking with unknown tongues constitutes a witness to the Baptism with the Spirit expose themselves and their hearers to peril of dangerous fanaticism. Perhaps no wiser counsel has been given on this matter then that of John Wesley who wrote long before the modern “tongues” movement appeared: “The grounds of a thousand mistakes is the not considering, deeply that love is the highest gift of God – humble, gentle, patient love – that all visions, revelation, manifestations whatsoever are little things compared to love. It were well you should be thoroughly sensible of this. The heaven of heavens is love. There is nothing higher in religion; there is in effect, nothing else. If you look for anything but more love you are looking wide of the mark, you are getting out of the royal way. And when you are asking others, “Have you received this or that blessing,” if you mean anything but more love you, you mean wrong; you are leading them out of the way, and putting them upon a false scent. Settle it then in your heart, that from the moment God has saved you from all sin, you are to aim at nothing but more of that love described in the thirteenth chapter of First Corinthians. You can go no higher than this till you are carried into Abraham’s bosom.” ―Doctrine, Pilgrim Holiness Church[ the Pentecostal doctrine of a third work of grace accompanied by glossolalia is condemned by some connexions in the Methodist tradition, such as the Pilgrim Holiness Church, which teaches that the state of Christian perfection in which a person is perfect in love is the goal for humans:[48] ]

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charismatic_movement

 

4) Other Denominations regarding Speaking in Tongues or equivalent

 

This ‘speaking in tongues’ phenomena is “not” unique to “protestants only” but also “Roman Catholics too have it” (so are these the same source?

 

Let’s “not” commit any accidental Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by claiming wrongly either way) but just putting a word of ‘caution” here, example quote:

 

“… “In 1975, at the International Conference on the Charismatic Renewal held in Rome, Pope Paul VI allowed Cardinal Suenens to concelebrate a charismatic Mass in St. Peter’s. At that Mass, there was most definitely praying in tongues (not ‘speaking in tongues’) along with singing in tongues by the cardinals, bishops, priests and laypeople all gathered together at this Mass, with the Pope’s approval. It was a beautiful time of worship in the heart of the Church. The Pope himself spoke to us after Mass with words of welcome and advice for those involved in the charismatic renewal. It is important to make a distinction, as St. Paul himself does, between speaking in tongues and praying in tongues.” The document I quoted from Brazil clearly made the distinction between praying and speaking in tongues, but finally decided that neither was appropriate in the context of Mass.  The fact that in 1975 Pope Paul VI allowed this concelebration in no way suggests an official approval of all charismatic practices during Mass. In 1975 the Catholic charismatic renewal was barely 8 years old and the Pope was offering cautious encouragement to the movement. …”

 

Source: https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/speaking-in-tongues-at-mass-4539

 

 

5) Other Protestant’s View regarding Speaking in Tongues

 

Some Protestants do “not” fully accept it whilst others “reject” it while others embrace it fully, example quote:

 

“… The Charismatic movement is most known for its acceptance of speaking in tongues (also known as glossolalia), divine healing, and prophecies as evidence of the Holy Spirit. Most meetings are for praying and spirited singing, dancing, shouting “in the spirit,” and raising hands and arms in prayer. Also, anointing the sick with oil is often part of the worship service. These are the primary reasons for the movement’s growth and popularity. While growth and popularity are certainly desirable, they cannot be used as a test for truth. The question remains: is the Charismatic movement scriptural? We can best answer that question this way: we know that since the creation of mankind Satan’s insidious master plan has been simply to put a veil between God’s children and God’s inerrant Word. It began in the Garden of Eden when the serpent asked Eve, “Did God really say . . .?” (Genesis 3:1), thereby raising doubt as to the authority and authenticity of what God had said. Ever since that day, he continues to attack the inerrancy and sufficiency of the Bible. Without question, we know that Satan has stepped up the pace of this strategy (1 Peter 5:8). Today, we are witnessing a growing menace of demonic activity in the realm of the miraculous. Where Satan does not succeed in taking the Bible from us, he works hard at taking us from the Bible. He does this simply by getting Christians to focus their attention on the claims of men and women to some supernatural experience. As a result, those who seek after the experiences of others have neither time nor interest in searching the Scriptures for God’s truth.

There is no denying that God performs miracles. Some of what occurs in the Charismatic movement very well may be a true work of the Holy Spirit. However, the core truth is this: the Body of Christ does not need new apostles, nor new faith healers, nor self-styled miracle workers. What the Church needs is to return to the Word of God and proclaim the whole counsel of God in the power and love of the Holy Spirit. …”

 

Source:

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/Charismatic-movement.html

 

 

 

 

Conclusion – What does First Christianity Say?

 

No matter how one speaks of ‘Christianity today’, if a phenomenon or spiritual gift is “not” attested by Church Fathers or Practiced in ‘Church History’ by true believers and “not” heretics, then they have “no” history.

 

  1. Speaking in Tongues (the Modern way claim)

 

In regards to the ‘speaking in tongues in the modern way’, there is “no” Church History because the ‘speaking in tongues’ actually referred to ‘various existing human languages’  as per quote and Bible Verses below:

 

“…  To my knowledge, no Church Father ever connected “Speaking in Tongues” – Glossolaliawith anything other than existing human languages. Dr. Nathan Busenitz wrote a very detailed paper titled The Gift of Tongues: Comparing the Church Fathers with Contemporary Pentecostalism comparing what the Church Fathers believed and wrote regarding glossolalia with contemporary Pentecostal beliefs. His conclusion was that there was no evidence that any Church Fathers ever held that glossolalia involved anything other than real human language. …”

Source (with more discussion regarding this aspect if keen):

https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/50464/do-any-church-fathers-directly-connect-speaking-in-tongues-with-anything-other

 

“… 1When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all [a]with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3Then there appeared to them [b]divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8And how is it that we hear, each in our own [c]language in which we were born? 9Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11Cretans and [d]Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” 12So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?” …” (Acts 21 – 12, NKJV)

Note: Apostle St. Paul does Speak of the ‘unknown language of Angels’ in 1 Corinthians 13 which some of the Charismatics point to but personally I’m “not” too sure if if they are speaking the ‘language of angels when they do so’ but One Day God Will Reveal and we will see if they were given this gift (good for them then).

 

Personally, I don’t involve myself with any ‘risky’ Christianity these days and Let God Decide one day if it was so or not.

 

  1. Other Charismatic Gifts such as “Healing, Word of Knowledge etc.”

 

Regarding these Charismatic Gifts I am certainly a “Charismatic” because I have personal experience of Divine Healing (Personal Testimony of it too) as per Video in link below:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE9eDcCT6sk

 

These Gifts have Actual Church History as even Charles Spurgeon’s Testimony earlier as well and here are others by the First Christianity Greats whom even ‘Charismatic Scholars quote‘ (so I’m quoting their source too to be fair):

 

  1. i) Justin Martyr

 

‘… Therefore, just as God did not inflict His anger on account of those seven thousand men, even so He has now neither yet inflicted judgment, nor does inflict it, knowing that daily some [of you] are becoming disciples in the name of Christ, and quitting the path of error; who are also receiving gifts, each as he is worthy, illumined through the name of this Christ. For one receives the spirit of understanding, another of counsel, another of strength, another of healing, another of foreknowledge, another of teaching, and another of the fear of God. …’ –  Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho, ch.39)

 

 

 

‘… For the prophetical gifts remain with us, even to the present time. And hence you ought to understand that [the gifts] formerly among your nation have been transferred to us. And just as there were false prophets contemporaneous with your holy prophets, so are there now many false teachers amongst us, of whom our Lord forewarned us to beware; so that in no respect are we deficient, since we know that He foreknew all that would happen to us after His resurrection from the dead and ascension to heaven. …’ –  Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD,  (Dialogue with Trypho, ch.39)

 

Source (for both quotes above):

 

https://continuationism.com/2010/05/16/the-charismata-in-church-history/

 

2) St. Irenaeous of Lyons

 

“… ‘Wherefore, also, those who are in truth His disciples, receiving grace from Him, do in His name perform [miracles], so as to promote the welfare of other men, according to the gift which each one has received from Him. For some do certainly and truly drive out devils, so that those who have thus been cleansed from evil spirits frequently both believe [in Christ], and join themselves to the Church. Others have foreknowledge of things to come: they see visions, and utter prophetic expressions. Others still, heal the sick by laying their hands upon them, and they are made whole. Yea, moreover, as I have said, the dead even have been raised up, and remained among us for many years. And what shall I more say? It is not possible to name the number of the gifts which the Church, [scattered] throughout the whole world, has received from God, in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and which she exerts day by day for the benefit of the Gentiles, neither practising deception upon any, nor taking any reward from them [on account of such miraculous interpositions]. For as she has received freely from God, freely also does she minister [to others]. …”  – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Against Heresies, Book 2, ch.32, 4)

 

Source: https://continuationism.com/2010/05/16/the-charismata-in-church-history/

 

 

 

Note: Even the ‘Charismatic Scholars’ can only quote these two Church Fathers as the “earliest proof of Charisma Gifts of the Spiritnamely St. Justin Martyr and St. Irenaeous of Lyons both of whom areChiliasm” or “Millenialism” Doctrine teachers too.

 

The other two persons quoted are later and “Novatian” is actually a ‘heretic’ as he didn’t allow people to repent again or something like that while the other Church father Gregory Neocaesarea is someone I have quoted before as well.

 

The “Problem” with ‘Charismatic Christians’ is that they pick and choose quotes to believe from these First Christianity Greats but do “not” show the other writings from these same sources or books belonging to these Church Fathers who are quoted here.

 

Examples:

 

  1. St. Justin Martyr’s Possible Universalism Quote from this “Same Dialogue with Trypho Book” as I have discussed for example in Pages 45 – 46 of the #EternalHellAnnihilationUniversalismBook

 

  1. a) The Wicked becoming Obedient/Subjected – as One Child

 

“…We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child, IT SIGNIFIES THAT THE WICKED SHALL BECOME SUBJECT TO HIM, and SHALL OBEY HIS COMMAND, and that ALL SHALL BECOME AS ONE CHILD. … and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself …” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER XLI & CHAPTER XLII, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’)

 

  1. b) The Church compared as an Analogy to that

 

“… Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation … of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him,…” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER XLI & CHAPTER XLII, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’)

 

Source for both quotes above:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

 

  1. St. Justin Martyr’s Chiliasm Doctrine Prophecy part also from this ‘same book’ quoted by Charismatics earlier to “prove” the existence of the Charismatic Gifts earlier

 

“… But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare. For Isaiah spake thus concerning this space of a thousand years: ‘For there shall be the new heaven and the new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, or come into their heart; but they shall find joy and gladness in it, which things I create’…For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject [2 Peter 3:8, Psalm 90:4]. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, THAT THOSE WHO BELIEVED IN OUR CHRIST [1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18, Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32 ] would dwell a THOUSAND YEARS in Jerusalem [Revelation 20:4 – 10]; and that thereafter the GENERAL, and in short, the ETERNAL RESURRECTION and JUDGMENT of ALL MEN would LIKEWISE TAKE PLACE [Revelation 20:11 – 15, Matthew 25:31 – 46]. Just as our Lord also said, ‘They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection. [Luke 20:35 – 36] …” –  Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, CHAPTER LXXXI)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

 

 

Note: The Roman Catholics/Orthodox did NOT change these First Christianity Chiliasm quotes because they have denounced it officially too but preserved these quotes intact (do you know that the DIRECT DISCIPLES of the APOSTLES can ONLY be QUOTED to BELIEVE in this CHILIASM in the surviving writings?

 

NO OTHER “eschatological” POSITION can be proven in them. If anyone claims otherwise, please ask them for the quote and source.

 

The others quote ‘Church Fathers’ but NOT these direct disciples type of Church Fathers.

 

  1. St. Irenaeous of Lyons’ Interpretation of the Christian Zionism Parable by Christ referring to Luke 18 is from this same thick Volume of “Against Heresies” which the Charismatic Quote earlier quotes from also

 

“… 4. The Lord also spoke as follows to those who did not believe in Him: “I have come in my Father’s name, and ye have not received Me: when another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive,” calling Antichrist “the other,” because he is alienated from the Lord. This is also the unjust judge, whom the Lord mentioned as one “who feared not God, neither regarded man,” to whom the widow fled in her forgetfulness of God,-that is, the earthly Jerusalem,-to be avenged of her adversary [referring to Luke 18:1 – 8 earlier]. Which also he shall do in the time of his kingdom: he shall remove his kingdom into that [city], and shall sit in the temple of God, leading astray those who worship him, as if he were Christ. To this purpose Daniel says again: “And he shall desolate the holy place; and sin has been given for a sacrifice, and righteousness been cast away in the earth, and he has been active (fecit), and gone on prosperously.” ….” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter XXV, Point 4)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

 

 

 

 

 

  1. St. Irenaeous of Lyons’ possible Christ Centered Universalism Quote from ‘his lost writings’ collection

 

“… Christ, who was called the Son of God before the ages, was manifested in the fulness of time, in order that He might cleanse us through His blood, who were under the power of sin, presenting us as pure sons to His Father, if we yield ourselves obediently to the chastisement of the Spirit. AND IN THE END OF TIME HE SHALL COME TO DO AWAY WITH ALL EVIL, AND TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS [Colossians 1:16,20*], in order that there may be AN END OF ALL IMPURITIES. … ” – Blessed St. Irenaeous, Bishop of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Fragment XXXIX, FRAGMENTS FROM THE LOST WRITINGS OF IRENAEUS)

 

Translation Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-fragments.html

 

  1. St. Irenaeous of Lyons calls the “Shepherd of Hermas” Writing as “Scripture” from this ‘same writing’ which the ‘Charismatics quote earlier’ which contains the “Possible non-Elect Salvation” and the meaning of “Born Again” as I have discussed in Previous Books/Pages (for example in pages 234 to 240 of this Book)

 

To quote (example):

 

“… Irenaeus and the Shepherd of Hermas

Irenaeus writes in Adversus Haereses:

 

Truly, then, the Scripture declared, which says, “First of all believe that there is one God, who has established all things, and completed them, and having caused that from what had no being, all things should come into existence. He who contains all things, and is Himself contained by no one.” [Book 2, First Commandment, of the Shepherd of Hermas]. Rightly also has Malachi said among the prophets: “Is it not one God who hath established us? Have we not all one Father?” (4.20.2. of Adversus Haereses)

 

This passage, where Irenaeus calls the Shepherd of Hermas ‘scripture’, is mentioned by [Grant] p. 153 and [Metzger] p. 155.

…”

Source: http://www.ntcanon.org/Irenaeus.shtml

Note: St. Irenaeous of Lyons’s Writing helped determine which Books of the New Testament are Scripture in early Christianity itself and “Possible” Scripture as the later Christians weren’t sure. Let God Reveal One Day if he was more accurate.

 

  1. St. Ireaneous of Lyon’s Quote regarding the Possibility of a “non-Elect Salvation” referring to a “Second Badge of Righteous with the #CharityDoctrineseparated by 1000 years later from the “First Resurrection of Christians” (Revelation 20:4 – 6) was discussed in Pages 591 to 604 in this Book quoting him together with St. Justin Martyr mostly (too much details to quote here) and it’s noteworthy to see that these quotes too are ALL FROM this SAME AGAINST HERESIES BOOK of HIS which the CHARISMATIC CHRISTIAN SOURCES ARE QUOTING ONLY THAT PART and also from the SAME JUSTIN MARTYR’S BOOK which that Charismatic Source Quoted as well (so if the Charismatic Source quoted wrongly without knowing all these, then are their Baptism by the Holy Spirit reliable then? I mean Charismatics have the habit of claiming whatever they do was led by God and so were these Charismatics who quote both St. Justin Martyr and St. Irenaeous of Lyons led by God in light of all these?)Can you see it?

 

We know that the Roman Catholics and Orthodox denominations did a good job in preserving ancient Christian Writings especially those of the “Chiliasm Fathers of the Church” whom I follow most as they are the ‘earliest whose writings survive’ simply because both of these major denominations do “not” believe the same as them in many areas too as I have demonstrated in the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.

 

Simple Logic: If someone wants to “change” an ‘early Christian Writing’ back at that time even, then they would have changed it to be ‘similar to what they believe or add in those things which they believe’ which is clearly absent from all Chiliasm Father’s Endorsed Writing such as they have “no” Prayers to Virgin Mary or Equivalent and also have a heavy focus on the #milleniarism or “chiliasm” #eschatology doctrine too.

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unsolved Mystery of Post-Mortem Salvation Possibility via Blessed Martin Luther First Champion of the Protestant Faith

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161726910617784

 

I have “not” written about this in detail but here is why this is difficult:

 

1) Martin Luther did write a mysterious quote regarding whether “faith” can be attained “after death”: here it is as he writes in a letter to “Hans von Rechenberg”:

 

“… “If God were to save anyone without faith, he would be acting contrary to his own words and would give himself the lie; yes, he would deny himself. And that is impossible for, as St. Paul declares, God cannot deny himself [“II Tim. 2:13”]. It is as impossible for God to save without faith as it is impossible for divine truth to lie. That is clear, obvious, and easily understood, no matter how reluctant the old wineskin is to hold this wine–yes, is unable to hold and contain it.” “It would be quite a DIFFERENT QUESTION WHETHER GOD CAN IMPART FAITH to SOME IN THE HOUR OF DEATH OR AFTER DEATH SO THAT THESE PEOPLE COULD BE SAVED THROUGH FAITH. WHO WOULD DOUBT GOD’S ABILITY TO DO THAT? NO ONE, HOWEVER, CAN PROVE THAT HE DOES THIS. For all that we read is that he has already raised people from the dead and thus granted them faith. But whether he gives faith or not, it is impossible for anyone to be saved without faith. Otherwise every sermon, the gospel, and faith would be vain, false, and deceptive, since the entire gospel makes faith necessary.  …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith (Works, 43, ed. and trans. G. Wienke and H. T. Lehmann [Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1968], 53-54; WA 10.ii, 324.25-325.11), letter to “Hans von Rechenberg“:”

 

Protestant Source:

 

https://www.reformation21.org/mos/1517/tim-and-carl-on-love-wins

 

Comments:

  1. i) The Protestant Source above knows that this letter is Authentic as it is printed by ‘Eternal Hell believers themselves’ in the Famous “Luther Works series” or equivalent.

 

  1. ii) The Protestant Source claims that Luther is indeed speaking of post-mortem salvation but just not saying that it will be done as the ‘fuller explanation by that professor’ is as follows for this crucial part as ‘he admits even that this is what Luther wrote’ in ‘his own words’:

 

“… He asks if God could give somebody faith after death and justify them on that basis. Yes, he replies, he could do so; but there is absolutely no evidence that he does do so …” – Carl Trueman, a professor of church history at Westminster Theological Seminary

 

Source:

https://www.reformation21.org/articles/easy-virtues-and-cruel-mistresses.php

 

iii) So everybody agrees that Martin Luther is speaking of a “post mortem” (or after death) possibility of attaining to ‘faith’. The professor says that Luther is clear that this is “not possible”. However, Luther seems to be saying that “it is POSSIBLE if GOD WILLS it” but so far, “no one (to his knowledge) has proof that GOD HAS DONE SO“. That quote part:

 

“… “It would be quite a DIFFERENT QUESTION WHETHER GOD CAN IMPART FAITH to SOME IN THE HOUR OF DEATH OR AFTER DEATH SO THAT THESE PEOPLE COULD BE SAVED THROUGH FAITH. WHO WOULD DOUBT GOD’S ABILITY TO DO THAT? NO ONE, HOWEVER, CAN PROVE THAT HE DOES THIS.  …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith

 

Can you see it?

 

  1. iv) To be honest with the writing (whether it’s a correct claim or not), Luther seems to be open to the “possibility” of “faith being attained after death for some (not all)” but He is “notsure whether God has done this or not due to “no” proof (to convince him or because no one can see the ‘spirit world’ to prove it or disprove it) and thus Luther leaves the question like that to GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY to DECIDE.

 

  1. v) This is exactly the Doctrinal Position I have taken likewise where I don’t affirm Universalism nor post-mortem Salvation as anything more than a “possibility” only these days as Luther did likewise leaving the Decision to God Alone.

 

2) Here is something deeper which the Professor is “not” quoting in his blog link above but is quoted by other scholars as per image too ‘at the start of it’ from this ‘same letter by Martin Luther’ to “Hans von Rechenberg”:

 

This Context:

 

“… For the opinion that GOD COULD NOT HAVE CREATED MAN to be REJECTED and CAST AWAY into ETERNAL TORMENT IS HELD AMONG US ALSO, as it was at all times by some of the most renowned people, such as Origen and his kind.  …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith, (letter to “Hans von Rechenberg“)

 

Source (Page 14):

https://www.amazon.com/Larger-Hope-Universal-Reformation-Nineteenth/dp/1498200400

 

 

Comments:

 

  1. i) Luther’s argument are “not” to support Universalism as true as he doesn’t speak of it in that way but he points that even so called “CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISTS are NOT HERETICS personally by his standards” as his phrase here toward them is “… IS HELD AMONG US ALSO, ….” where he considers these ‘Christian Universalists’ as part of being a ‘Saved Protestant and not heretics if they hope so’.

 

Example link discussing such possibility for this side of the coin, please consider:

 

https://forum.evangelicaluniversalist.com/t/primary-source-for-martin-luthers-postmortem-quote/1591/9

 

 

 

  1. ii) I am aware that by the Protestant councils “Universalism is a heresy“, example:

 

“… Our churches condemn the Anabaptists, who think that there will be an end to the punishments of the condemned and devils. ….” – Augsburg Confession, Article 17

 

Source:

 

https://kimberlinglutheran.com/2014/06/19/augsburg-confession-article-17/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

iii) Think your Church/Denomination is “not” condemned by this same article 17? Please read ‘carefully’:

 

What they don’t tell you further (which you can see in link above too likewise) is that in this ‘same Article 17 of the Lutheran Augsburg Confession’ any ‘Christian idea of EARTHLY ZIONISM’ (e.g. secretly supporting the “Jews/Israel” for earthly-Zion building) BEFORE THE RESURRECTION (meaning before Christ Returns) is EQUALLY CONDEMNED TO HELL together with such UNIVERSALISM believers (don’t believe me? please “see” it below in “full” from the official “Book of Concord” even) as follows:

 

 

“… Article XVII. Of Christ’s Return to Judgment.

1 Also they teach that at the Consummation of the World Christ will appear for judgment, and 2 will raise up all the dead; He will give to the godly and elect eternal life and everlasting joys, 3 but ungodly men and the devils He will condemn to be tormented without end.

4 They CONDEMN the Anabaptists, who think that there will be AN END TO THE PUNISHMENTS OF CONDEMNED MEN AND DEVILS.

5 They CONDEMN ALSO OTHERS who are now spreading certain JEWISH OPINIONS, that BEFORE THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD the GODLY SHALL TAKE POSSESSION OF THE KINGDOM OF THIS WORLD, the ungodly being everywhere suppressed. …”

– Lutheran Book of Concord (Augsburg Confession, Article 17)

 

Source: https://bookofconcord.org/augsburg-confession/

 

Comments:

 

  1. In short, any CHRISTIAN-JEWISH ZIONISM idea is clearly CONDEMNED EQUALLY to ETERNAL HELL as UNIVERSALISM in this ‘same Augsburg Confession Article 17’ if they believe in any sort of Christians ‘taking over the kingdoms of this world (e.g. colonials-mindset, to economic takeover by secret-Christian businessmen councils, the “Prosperity Gospel which teaches to claim & inherit this world’ to Israel supporting secret Church Agendas of sending money to them or for them to establish the Temple etc. which ironically will actually be helped/taken over by the Antichrist as the Bible already Prophesied it in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 – 4).

 

  1. The True Rebuilding of Christ’s Temple in the 1000 years Millennial Reign is after His Second Coming (Revelation 19:11 – 21) and AFTER the First “Bodily” Resurrection (Revelation 20:4 – 6, Luke 20:34 – 36) as “Chiliasm” Doctrine Church Fathers whom I follow TAUGHT LIKEWISE.

 

Can you see it?

 

iii. If the authours of this Lutheran Augsburg Confession were led by God to do it, then many of the Prosperity Christians are going to “Hell” or be “Condemned also” (same words used) together with the “Christian Universalists likewise” as they did “not” see one as a lighter theological error than the other here in this same article.

 

Can you see it?

 

So we either accept the condemnation of “both” or “neither” to be “honest”.

 

  1. The “difference” is I have “repented” of the “Universalism” part only treating it as a “possibility” only as “Martin Luther’s Quote allows this if we use it for God’s Sovereignty to Decide as He is able but adding nothing more as doctrine on this’. Following Martin Luther (the First Champion of the Protestant Faith) in this cannot condemn you to hell as all protestants must agree first that he is saved regardless if his statement is wrong or if he viewed it as a possibility for if he was convinced 100% that it cannot happen, then he wouldn’t have argued likewise that “God is able” respecting God’s Decision Alone on this.

 

3) There is another “possibility” which Martin Luther may be referring to which is “not” discussed by the Professor nor by the forum much which is based on St. Athanasius’ quote below:

 

“… And if a man has gone down even to HADES, and stands awestruck before the heroes who have descended thither, regarding them as gods, still he may see the fact of Christ’s resurrection and His victory over death, and reason from it that, of all these, He alone is very Lord and God. For the Lord touched all parts of creation, and freed and undeceived them all from every deceit. As St. Paul says, “Having put off from Himself the principalities and the powers, He triumphed on the cross,”(Col. 2. 15) so that no one could possibly be any longer deceived, but EVERYWHERE MIGHT FIND THE VERY WORD OF GOD. For thus MAN, enclosed on every side by the works of creation and everywhere-in heaven, in HADES, in men and on the earth, BEHOLDING the UNFOLDED GODHEAD of the WORD, is NO LONGER DECEIVED CONCERNING GOD, but WORSHIPS CHRIST ALONE, and THROUGH HIM RIGHTLY KNOWS THE FATHER. On these grounds, then, of reason and of principle, we will fairly silence the Gentiles in their turn. But if they think these arguments insufficient to confute them, we will go on in the next chapter to prove our point from facts. … ” – Blessed St. Athanasius the Great, the Father of Orthodoxy, Patriarch of Alexandria and Champion of Trinity, Doctor of the Church and Confessor, Coptic Pope (c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD, ‘On the Incarnation’, , Ibid, Chapter 7/ Section 45)

 

Translation Source:

https://www.worldinvisible.com/library/athanasius/incarnation/incarnation.7.htm

 

 

Yes, it’s the “same Athanasius“.

 

Please also note that this is Quote “not” from an obscure writing attributed to Athanasius but on the very Book titled “… On the Incarnation …” (which he wrote)  upon which the Most Glorious Doctrine of Trinity was Defended where it contains such even non-Elect salvation Possibility quotes like this where upon such beliefs was the Doctrine of Trinity defended by St. Athanasius – can you see it?

 

And all of Mainstream Christianity be it Protestants to Catholics to Orthodox admit St. Athanasius as being used by God to Defend this).

 

Mysterious, isn’t it?

 

St. Athanasius’ Quote is related to include the “Post Mortem” (AFTER DEATH) non-Elect Salvation “Possibility” since he clearly writes above to include “HADES in Greek = SHEOL in Hebrew (Spirit World Realm of the Dead)” clearly as some may “BEHOLD (“See”) GOD” which ‘word’ sounds similar to CHRIST’S BELIEVING AFTER SEEING POSSIBILITY next (which could be the “faith AFTER DEATH to ‘some/not all’ as Martin Luther, the First Protestant may have been saying that is “possible” if God Wills it), Verses:

 

“… 35And JESUS said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall NEVER THIRST. 36But I said to you that YOU HAVE SEEN ME and YET DO NOT BELIEVE. 37All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39This is the WILL OF THE FATHER who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should RAISE IT UP at the LAST DAY. 40And this is THE WILL OF HIM who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES THE SON AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE; and I will RAISE HIM UP at the LAST DAY.” …” (John 6:35 – 40, NKJV)

 

“… And as MOSES LIFTED UP the SERPENT in the wilderness, even so must the SON OF MAN BE LIFTED UP, 15that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM should [c]NOT PERISH but have ETERNAL LIFE. …” (John 3:14 – 15, NKJV)

 

Comment:  John 3:14 – 15 and John 6:36 – 40 above seem to point strongly to the ‘Believing after Seeing case’ which could be available till the LAST DAY as both John 6:40 and the Shepherd of Hermas quote earlier seem to point for this ‘non-Elect Salvation Possibility’.  In the Context of John 3:14, it is Christ Who is quoting the phrase “… which in the past literally referred to those ‘who saw the Serpent on the Bronze stick’ and those who ‘LITERALLY SEE it and BELIEVE’ was HEALED which Christ seems to Hint likewise to Himself as the ‘Believing after Seeing Possibility’ toward those who were ‘bitten by the serpent (indicating Satan metaphorically)’ as per the past incident Christ refers to below:

 

“… 8Then THE LORD SAID to MOSES “Make a FIERY SERPENT, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he LOOKS AT IT, SHALL LIVE.” 9So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a SERPENT HAD BITTEN ANYONE, when he LOOKED AT THE BRONZE SERPENT, he LIVED. …” (Number 21:8 – 9, NKJV)

 

As I said, I am “not” a false teacher or teaching this as a doctrine but as a “possibility” due to these strong quotes and Bible Verses which may point to this (“maybe“).

 

Whatever God Decides, I submit to it as I just present to you what I read and see so you can contemplate carefully and be careful with your words lest when we are wrong doctrinally on these points or others, the “same judgment meted back to us” could be equallycondemning” as Christ Warned in Matthew 7:1 – 3.

 

 

 

 

 

4) Augsburg Confession regarding New Testament Traditions

 

If we truly follow this Augsburg confession, the New Testament Traditions are to be kept where “not’” keeping them is called as “sin of OFFENDING ONE ANOTHER” but not to the point that Salvation is lost and gathering on a Sunday is NOT to observe Sabbath (as that is Annulled) but just so that a ‘gathering day can be made for Christians’ which is described in this ‘same Augsburg Confession’ as follows in the ‘other parts of Doctrine’, to quote:

 

“… 53 What, then, are we to think of the Sunday and like rites in the house of God? To this we answer that it is lawful for bishops or pastors to make ordinances that things be done orderly in the Church, not that thereby we should merit grace or make satisfaction for sins, or that consciences be bound to judge them necessary services, and to think that IT IS A SIN TO BREAK THEM 54 WITHOUT OFFENSE TO OTHERS. So PAUL ORDAINS, 1 Cor. 11:5, that WOMEN SHOULD COVER THEIR HEADS IN THE CONGREGATION, 1 Cor. 14:30, that interpreters be heard in order in the church, etc.

 

55 It is PROPER THAT THE CHURCHES SHOULD KEEP SUCH ORDINANCES FOR THE SAKE OF LOVE AND TRANQUILITY, so far that ONE DO NOT OFFEND ANOTHER, that all things be done in the churches in order, and without confusion, 1 Cor. 14:40; comp. Phil. 2:14 . 56 but so that consciences be not burdened to think that they are necessary to salvation, or TO JUDGE THAT THEY SIN WHEN THEY BREAK THEM WITHOUT OFFENSE TO OTHERS; as no one will say that a woman sins who goes out in public with her head uncovered provided only that no offense be given.

 

57 Of this kind is the observance of the Lord’s Day, Easter, Pentecost, and like holy-days and 58 rites. For those who judge that by the authority of the Church the observance of the Lord’s Day instead of the Sabbath-day was ordained as a thing necessary, 59 do greatly err. Scripture has abrogated the Sabbath-day; for it teaches that, since the Gospel has been revealed, all the ceremonies of Moses can be omitted. And 60 yet, because it was necessary to appoint a certain day, that the people might know when they ought to come together, it appears that the Church designated the Lord’s Day for this purpose; and this day seems to have been chosen all the more for this additional reason, that men might have an example of CHRISTIAN LIBERTY, and might know that the KEEPING NEITHER OF THE SABBATH NOR OF ANY OTHER DAY IS NECESSARY …” – Lutheran Book of Concord (Augsburg Confession, Article XXVIII. Of Ecclesiastical Power.)

 

Source: https://bookofconcord.org/augsburg-confession/

 

5) Augsburg Confession regarding “False Prophets

 

Strangely, when quoting “False Prophets” or a “Different Gospel” this same Augsburg Confession points to even “TITHE PAYING CHURCHES or even SABBATH OBSERVING CHURCHES where these are TREATED as OBLIGATORY“, to quote:

 

“… 23 But when they teach or ordain anything against the Gospel, then the congregations have a commandment of God prohibiting obedience, Matt. 7:15: BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS; 24 Gal. 1:8: Though an angel from heaven PREACH ANY OTHER GOSPEL, LET HIM BE ACCURSED; 25 2 Cor. 13:8: We can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. 26 Also: The power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction. 27 So, also, the Canonical Laws command (II. Q. VII. Cap., Sacerdotes, and Cap. Oves). 28 And Augustine (Contra Petiliani Epistolam): Neither must we submit to Catholic bishops if they chance to err, or hold anything contrary to the Canonical Scriptures of God.

 

29 If they have any other power or jurisdiction, in hearing and judging certain cases, as of matrimony or OF TITHES, etc., they have it by human right, in which matters princes are bound, even against their will, when the ordinaries fail, to dispense justice to their subjects for the maintenance of peace. 30 Moreover, it is disputed whether bishops or pastors have the right to introduce ceremonies in the Church, and to make laws concerning meats, holy-days and grades, that is, orders of ministers, etc. 31 They that give this right to the bishops refer to this testimony John 16:12-13: I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth. 32 They also refer to the example of the Apostles, who commanded to abstain from blood and from things strangled, Acts 15:29. 33 They refer to the Sabbath-day as having been changed into the Lord’s Day, CONTRARY TO THE DECALOG, AS IT SEEMS. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath-day. Great, say they, is the power of the Church, since it has dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments!

 

34 But concerning this question it is taught on our part (as has been shown above) that BISHOPS HAVE NO POWER TO DECREE ANYTHING AGAINST THE GOSPEL. The Canonical Laws teach the same thing (Dist. IX). 35 Now, IT IS AGAINST SCRIPTURE TO ESTABLISH OR REQUIRE THE OBSERVANCE OF ANY TRADITIONS, to THE END THAT BY SUCH OBSERVANCE WE MAY MAKE SATISFACTION FOR SINS, OR MERIT GRACE AND RIGHTEOUSNESS. 36 For the glory of Christ’s merit suffers injury when, by such observances, 37 we undertake to merit justification. But it is manifest that, by such belief, traditions have almost infinitely multiplied in the Church, the doctrine concerning faith and the righteousness of faith being meanwhile suppressed. For gradually more holy-days were made, fasts appointed, new ceremonies and services in honor of saints instituted, because the authors of such things thought that by these works they were meriting 38 grace. Thus in times past the Penitential Canons increased, whereof we still see some traces in the satisfactions. …” – Lutheran Book of Concord (Augsburg Confession, Article XXVIII. Of Ecclesiastical Power.)

 

Source: https://bookofconcord.org/augsburg-confession/

 

So we either take all of it or none of it, right? well at least we should take the parts which are “clearly” Written in “New Testament Scripture” such as these “Traditions” first.

 

 

 

 

Evangelism to Heavenly Rewards – Quality over Quantity

 

Source Post:

 

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161730008127784

 

 

Comment for Quote in image: The closer a Church is to the ‘World’s Ways’ against Scripture even, easier the evangelism because it will advocate “Prosperity” (Covetousness) to “Feminism” (Temptation in which Eve fell via the Snake to try to usurp authority to become like a ‘god’).

 

Example: There’s “no” such thing that the “Love of God” leads you to love “earthly things nor #Prosperity Lifestyle which are “things of this world” as it CONTRADICTS this Verse clearly

 

“… 15Do not love the world or the THINGS IN THE WORLD. If ANYONE LOVES THE WORLD, THE LOVE OF THE FATHER IS NOT IN HIM.  …” (1 John 2:15, NKJV)

 

So the more the LOVE of the FATHER abides in us, we will feel more to NOT love earthly things.

 

The “Founders of Protestantism” approved these as Correct Doctrine likewise, to quote:

 

 

  1. i) Against #ProsperityGospel type of idea of ‘Godly making possession of the kingdoms of this World BEFORE the RESURRECTION’

 

 

“… 5 They CONDEMN ALSO OTHERS who are now spreading certain JEWISH OPINIONS, that BEFORE THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD the GODLY SHALL TAKE POSSESSION OF THE KINGDOM OF THIS WORLD, the ungodly being everywhere suppressed. …”

– Lutheran Book of Concord (Augsburg Confession, Article 17)

 

 

Source: https://bookofconcord.org/augsburg-confession/

 

 

  1. ii) Against any type of #Feminism which usually detracts from OBEYING #NewTestamentTraditions just because it may “not” affect Salvation

 

Example:

 

“… , and to think that IT IS A SIN TO BREAK THEM 54 WITHOUT OFFENSE TO OTHERS. So PAUL ORDAINS, 1 Cor. 11:5, that WOMEN SHOULD COVER THEIR HEADS IN THE CONGREGATION, 1 Cor. 14:30, that interpreters be heard in order in the church, etc. 55 It is PROPER THAT THE CHURCHES SHOULD KEEP SUCH ORDINANCES FOR THE SAKE OF LOVE AND TRANQUILITY, so far that ONE DO NOT OFFEND ANOTHER, that all things be done in the churches in order, and without confusion, 1 Cor. 14:40; comp. Phil. 2:14 . 56 but so that consciences be not burdened to think that they are necessary to salvation, or TO JUDGE THAT THEY SIN WHEN THEY BREAK THEM WITHOUT OFFENSE TO OTHERS; as no one will say that a woman sins who goes out in public with her head uncovered provided only that no offense be given…., it appears that the Church designated the Lord’s Day for this purpose; and this day seems to have been chosen all the more for this additional reason, that men might have an example of CHRISTIAN LIBERTY, and might know that the KEEPING NEITHER OF THE SABBATH NOR OF ANY OTHER DAY IS NECESSARY …” – Lutheran Book of Concord (Augsburg Confession, Article XXVIII. Of Ecclesiastical Power.)

 

Source: https://bookofconcord.org/augsburg-confession/

 

Note: The “Augsburg Confession” is “not” one of many statements of faith but the very “First” Protestant Confession of Faith. In other words, if you are a Protestant, then you must believe that these “Founders” with “Martin Luther” (the First Champion of the Protestant faith) were chosen by God for the Gospel and so following this Way with “Scripture” for ‘each claim’ as they compiled it thus is the #SafeRouteScripturally with “no” condemnation.

 

 

 

Example quote:

 

“…The Augsburg Confession, also known as the Augustan Confession or the Augustana from its Latin name, Confessio Augustana, is the primary confession of faith of the Lutheran Church and one of the most important documents of the Protestant Reformation. The Augsburg Confession was written in both German and Latin and was presented by a number of German rulers and free-cities at the Diet of Augsburg on 25 June 1530. …”

 

Source:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augsburg_Confession

 

or

 

“… Early Protestants inherited the late mediaeval devotion to the Athanasian Creed, and it was considered to be authoritative in many Protestant churches. The statements of Protestant belief (confessional documents) of various Reformers commend the Athanasian Creed to their followers, including the Augsburg Confession, the Formula of Concord, the Second Helvetic Confession, the Belgic Confession, the Bohemian Confession and the Thirty-nine Articles …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed

 

 

Conclusion

 

Heaven’s Ranking and Rewards is “not” based on “number of converts” as a congregation may be a big number of thirtyfold as opposed to sixtyfold or hundredfold levels of obedience too, as the Bible doesn’t call all Christian Salvation the same even in Matthew 13:8 nor in other Verses (Quoted below):

 

“… 8But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a HUNDREDFOLD, SOME SIXTY, SOME THIRTY. 9He who has ears to hear, let him hear!” 10And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” 11He answered and said to them, “Because it has been GIVEN TO YOU to KNOW the [a]MYSTERIES OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, but to THEM IT HAS NOT BEEN GIVEN. …” (Matthew 13:8 – 11, NKJV)

 

“… 19Whoever therefore BREAKS one of the LEAST of THESE COMMANDMENTS, and TEACHES men so, shall be called LEAST in the kingdom of HEAVEN; but whoever DOES AND TEACHES them, he shall be called GREAT in the kingdom of HEAVEN. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:19, NKJV)

 

“… 46“But WHY DO YOU CALL ME ‘LORD, LORD,’ and NOT DO THE THINGS WHICH I SAY? 47Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: 48He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:46 – 48, NKJV)

 

 

“… 18And JESUS CAME AND SPOKE TO THEM, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. …” (Matthew 28:18 – 20, NKJV)

 

Logic: Martyrs are generally considered “Hundredfolds” regardless (based say on Revelation 20:4 – 6) and to have the ‘same reward level’ as them, we can’t be living a “life of #Prosperity” with “ease” type of ‘faith’ (even if saved) as it wouldn’t be ‘fair to them’, right?

 

Then, how do we “KNOW GOD’S LOVE (Agape)”?

 

Not by ‘spiritual positions, prosperity or money blessings’ but by this #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as “no” other Verse uses this phrase “KNOW GOD’S LOVE (AGAPE)” with any other religious act directly like this (if you find one please let me know but even so it does “not” remove this meaning either but adds to it only  if it exists, can you see it?):

 

“… 16By this WE KNOW LOVE (Agape, God’s Love*), because He laid down His life for us. And we also OUGHT TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR THE BRETHREN. 17But WHOEVER HAS THIS WORLD’S GOODS, and SEES HIS BROTHER IN NEED, AND SHUTS UP HIS HEART FROM HIM, HOW DOES THE LOVE OF GOD ABIDE IN HIM? 18My little children, let us NOT LOVE IN WORD or IN TONGUE, BUT IN DEED AND IN TRUTH …” (1 John 3:16 – 18, NKJV)

 

Notice that the Bible Verse above Teaches this Equivalence:

 

Charity Doctrine = Martyrdom (Because it risks you financially and in other ways) by this phrase above:

 

“… He laid down His life for us. And we also OUGHT TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR THE BRETHREN …” (1 John 3:16, NKJV)

 

Which is equivalent to the ‘Christ’s Greatest Love’ emulation to #FollowHim in this too to #CarryourCross likewise even if we are “not” called to the actual #Martyrdom (now imagine the early Apostles and Church Fathers who lived out both the ‘Charity Doctrine Lifestyle’s Martyrdom Equivalent and the Actual Martyrdom’, oh the Level of Love of Christ in them is highest!, Praise God!’):

 

“… 12This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13GREATER LOVE HAS NO ONE THAN THIS, THAN TO LAY DOWN ONE’S LIFE FOR HIS FRIENDS. 14You are My friends IF YOU DO WHATEVER I COMMAND YOU IF YOU DO WHATEVER I COMMAND YOU.  …” (John 15:6 – 14, NKJV)

 

 

 

The deception that ‘sacrifice is love’ is offset by this Verse by CHRIST HIMSELF (mostly here too) which Says that “Obedience to HIS COMMANDS is the Fruit of Love” (Can you see it?)

 

 

“… IF YOU LOVE ME, KEEP [Obey] MY COMMANDMENTS. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:15, NKJV)

 

 

How about this Verse then which even ‘seems to speak lowly of some type  martyrdom even’?

 

 

All Martyrdom of giving one’s body to burned for Christ even or the Charity Done if it’s without GOD’S LOVE (Agape) is also nothing

 

 

“… 3And though I bestow ALL MY GOODS TO FEED THE POOR, and though I give MY BODY [A]TO BE BURNED, but HAVE NOT LOVE [AGAPE*], it PROFITS ME NOTHING. …” (1 Corinthians 13:3, NKJV)

 

 

Comment: Is it a contradiction then that earlier the Verse Said the Charity Doctrine may not fulfill it?

 

Not at all.

 

 

The Verses combined here means that you can do a fake giving of “this World’s Goods” with the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle without love or live a #True #CharityDoctrineLifestyle with God’s Love where the former is condemned while the latter is Praised.

 

 

In short, you cannot live out God’s Love without the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle but not every #CharityDoctrineLifestyle may be God’s Love.

 

 

Since no one can read hearts except God Alone, we can safely skip the judging part to Him.

 

Please remember that ‘God does NOT look at efforts but accuracy’ (so claiming that inaccurate ministries are great is a false position) based on Christ’s Words below where He is NOT impressed by the EFFORTS of TRAVELLING LAND AND SEA TO MAKE A CONVERT (did you notice that even the Pharisees’ false teachings can ‘make a convert’ and so number of converts is NOT a sign of “Truth“), Verse:

 

 

“… “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you TRAVEL LAND AND SEA to WIN ONE PROSELYTE, and when he is won, you make him TWICE as much a SON OF HELL as yourselves. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 23:15, NKJV)

 

 

Comment: Please notice that Christ did NOT Say, ‘… at least by your efforts, the previously unsaved convert (proselyte)  worships YHWH now even if such variant of Judaism was achieved here at that time in analogy of an “inaccurate Christianity” today …’.

 

 

Can you see it?

 

 

Last but not least, the Idea that the modern Christianity had to change its ways or ignore some of the New Testament Commands or Traditions so that they can have more converts is inaccurate because even so, the Roman Catholics and Orthodox did much “more conversions” by obeying these “New Testament Traditions”. The latter’s problem is they added even “more unwritten traditions” (e.g. Praying to Virgin Mary or to the Saints etc.) and yet ‘converted more’.

 

 

To say that a Christian would “not” have been converted unless a ‘woman pastor was there’ or ‘if these New Testament Traditions must be disobeyed’ proves at least  four things namely:

 

 

  1. That Christian’s” Faith is via a ‘human’ (i.e. the ‘woman pastor must be allowed’) and ‘New Testaments Traditions must be ignored’ (conditional upon human ideas).

 

 

They cannot say the reverse because the Biblical Faith is accepting ‘no woman pastor’ and ‘New Testament Traditions are upheld‘ as even the Founders of Protestantism including Martin Luther to Church Fathers earlier have held and so  there is “no” condemnation in this way.

 

 

 

 

 

  1. The modern Christianity position also implies a blasphemy (knowingly or unknowingly) in that God cannot convert based on New Testament Rules/Commands.

 

 

In other words, they claim that if we preach these New Testament Traditions for example, the ‘lost souls’ may “not” come to Church as they ‘may not like it’.

 

Can you see it?

 

So to make them ‘like church’, they ignore these New Testament Traditions and think that they are doing a ‘great thing’ for the sake of ‘salvation of those souls’.

 

 

iii. Think about it: So God’s New Testament Tradition Rules (1 Corinthians 14:37‘s “from the LORD“) are ‘pushing away people from the Gospel’ while ‘opposite ways are attracting people to be saved in their church’.

 

 

So God’s Written Scripture Method doesn’t Work is it?

 

 

If God told them so, then why didn’t God just allow it back then itself so that “even more” could be converted than making all these Rules and Preserving it in the “New Testament Bible” to “not” be used again 1900 years later?

 

 

  1. Sentiments.

 

Someone’s wife or husband or father or mother or brother or sister or relative could have been practicing against New Testament Traditions in some way and so that Christian  does “notagree and follows modern ways.

 

Perhaps then such Christians may love their “… wife, husband, father, mother, children, brother, sister …” more than Christ (knowingly or unknowingly) since when confronted with such Scripture, they prefer their ‘family members’:

 

“…  36and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 10:36 – 39, NKJV)

 

Please read these again.

 

 

 

So Christians are going to be converted based on ‘what’s available in the closest Church to them‘.

 

 

So if you present a Christianity without New Testament Traditions, some will choose that and vice versa.

 

 

Conclusion

 

So number of converts are like voting in an election toward a political party where people vote for a person of their own race or someone who promises more money to them etc. (which are usually ‘earthly bias’) and that’s why God’s Word has “harder” New Testament Traditions to ‘filter harder obedience’ to give ‘greater rewards for those who obey’ even among the saved as even Matthew 5:19 earlier in principle by Christ Himself Reveals.

 

Can you see it?

 

 

Rules” determine “not” Salvation but “Crowning” or  “Level of Crowning” in the ‘Race of Faith‘, Verse:

 

 

“… And also if anyone competes in athletics, he is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules. …” (2 Timothy 2:5, NKJV)

 

 

Comment: The ‘Race of Faith’ is not arbitrary but based on “Bible Rules” and “Traditions” (to be fair to all) as the Verse above Speaks of “Crowning“.

 

 

So if we failed to be “Crowned” for breaking these rules, is it worth it?

 

 

We cannot make a “Doctrine” based on “what is NOT Written” or pick & choose Christians based on “Unwritten man-made rules” as the condemnation is for those who do that as per Verses below:

 

“… 6Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us NOT TO THINK BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN, that none of you may be [c]PUFFED UP ON BEHALF OF ONE AGAINST THE OTHER. 7For who [d]MAKES YOU DIFFER FROM ANOTHER? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it? …” (1 Corinthians 4:6 – 7, NKJV)

 

Note: The Verse above condemns those CHRISTIANS or CHRISTIANITY which DIFFERS FROM ONE ANOTHER based on PRACTICES WHICH ARE NOT WRITTEN.

 

‘… If we are not united by what is Written in Scripture, we will be divided by what is not Written in Scripture …’

 

 

Here’s something to think about:

 

 

If “your calling” into “ministry” is filtered based on ‘accepting unwritten things as the benchmark’, would that same Christianity (knowingly or unknowingly) REJECT those WHO ARE ACTUALLY CALLED by GOD and ACCEPT others by ‘unwritten man made opinions’ since it is NOT BY OBJECTIVE ASSESSMENT (with Scripture) but “subjective” with ‘anything goes according to the human opinion of the pastor(s) in charge of such Churches?”

 

 

This has been “Prophesied” to happen in “First Christianity” itself as follows:

 

 

Yes, First Christianity Quote already Prophesied even His Church Ministry will be full of such Bias to quote (but the “sin is NOT small“):

 

 

“… We are of opinion, therefore, that those appointed by them, or afterwards by other eminent men, with the consent of the whole Church, and who have blame-lessly served the flock of Christ in a humble, peaceable, and disinterested spirit, and have for a long time possessed the good opinion of all, cannot be justly dismissed from the ministry. FOR OUR SIN WILL NOT BE SMALL, if we eject from the episcopate those who have blamelessly and holily fulfilled its duties. Blessed are those presbyters who, having finished their course before now, have obtained a fruitful and perfect departure [from this world]; for they have no fear lest any one deprive them of the place now appointed them. But WE SEE THAT YOU HAVE REMOVED SOME MEN OF EXCELLENT BEHAVIOUR FROM THE MINISTRY, WHICH THEY FULFILLED BLAMELESSLY and WITH HONOUR. Ye are fond of contention, brethren, and FULL OF ZEAL ABOUT THINGS which DO NOT PERTAIN TO SALVATION. LOOK CAREFULLY INTO THE SCRIPTURES, which are the TRUE UTTERANCES OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Observe that nothing of an unjust or counterfeit character is written in them. …” – Blessed St. Clement of Rome, an Apostolic Father being a direct Disciple of the Blessed Apostle St. Peter (c.35 AD – c. 99 AD, 1 Clement, Chapter 44 – 45)

 

Source:  http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/1clement-roberts.html

 

Please notice how even St. Clement of Rome calls the “written Scripture” as “TRUE UTTERANCES OF THE HOLY SPIRIT” including these “New Testament Tradition Verses” and so Speaking against it can risk the unforgivable Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, right? (Matthew 12:30 – 32)? The “Risk” is there but let God Decide whether it is so or not.

 

 

 

Here’s a “possibility” based on all these Bible Verses to the “Augsburg Confession” even:

 

 

“… 21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22MANY will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I NEVER KNEW YOU; depart from Me, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS!’ 24“Therefore WHOEVER HEARS THESE SAYINGS OF MINE, and DOES THEM, I will liken him to a WISE MAN WHO BUILT HIS HOUSE ON THE ROCK: …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (Matthew 7:21 – 24, NKJV)

 

 

A Converting “MANY” Lawless Christianity is DENIED at the END TIME on ‘THAT DAY when HE RETURNS’ for the REASON of “LAWLESSNESS” (NOT doing “His Commands’ type of “CONVERSIONS“) where could it even include disobeying these parts?

 

 

Not sure but “possible” since BIBLE VERSES PROVE THAT discarding even  NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS (as the last few posts we showed clearly) that the JUDGMENT for breaking a ‘new testament tradition’ [e.g. in pages 473 to 477 or Pages 564 to 579 or even Pages 640 to 644] clearly is described as “… having CONDEMNATION [Judgment] for having CAST OFF THEIR FIRST FAITH …” [1 Timothy 5:12] to “… DENIED the FAITH ... WORSE than an UNBELIEVER …” [1 Timothy 5:8] as these ‘Bible Verses’ (“not” me) WARN using such HARSH WORDS even with “no” other sin mentioned apart from ‘breaking just a New Testament Tradition’ (i.e.  all other factors held constant, even without even a 10 Commandment mentioned to broken by ‘such Christian Converts‘) as “it is Written“.

 

 

Can you see it?

 

 

 

That’s why I prefer to Preach Harsh regarding Keeping these New Testament Traditions even so that regardless I never risked your “fruit to no maturity” for such “Commands” and also by obeying it it is you who gain “these fruits” (hence heavenly rewards too) which ‘many other Christian converts may have ignored and hence may not attain to such rewards’ even if saved.

 

 

Being Saved also includes “Saved by Fire” case and so ‘converting many‘ is “not” a big deal either if it is of these type, right?:

 

“… 14If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, HE WILL RECEIVE A REWARD. 15If anyone’s WORK IS BURNED, HE WILL SUFFER LOSS; but HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, YET SO AS THROUGH FIRE.  …” (1 Corinthians 3:14 – 15, NKJV)

 

 

Comment: This “Saved by Fire” case can include some of those whom are included in John 3:16’s “whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life” and so it’s “not” as honourable as the Salvation of other Christians who adorn their Faith with Works accordingly to HONOUR GOD in ACTION as the other part of these Verses Describe as “Gold, Silver and Precious Stones” type of Reward (1 Corinthians 3:11 – 13).

 

 

Indeed, the Preaching about Christ is incomplete if we do “not” Preach “His New Testament Commands”.

 

 

 

 

Charity Doctrine – Many Prophets and Kings too did “NOT” see “NOR” Hear

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161721277827784

 

 

Common Fallacy: A “Prophet” of God knows everything God Wants to Say. In these Verses next (in image too), it is LORD JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF Who is Teaching that “NOT” even “PROPHETS” of God Know everything and so it’s okay if we don’t understand everything accurately as well.

In fact, regarding one of the things which they “HEARD” which “MANY” (not few) “PROPHETS AND KINGS DID NOT HEAR”, as per the Original Koine Greek Bible it INCLUDES KNOWING ABOUT THIS CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE as the FRUIT UNTO ETERNAL LIFE as CHRIST HIMSELF TAUGHT this Context clearly in “Consecutive Verses” below (if we remove the usual Bible headings/separation of verses* as Done by the much later purely Roman Catholic leader) as follows:

 

“… 21In that hour JESUS REJOICED IN THE SPIRIT and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have HIDDEN THESE THINGS from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 22All[g] things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE SON is EXCEPT THE FATHER, and who the Father is except the Son, and THE ONE TO WHOM THE SON WILLS TO REVEAL HIM.” 23Then HE TURNED TO HIS DISCIPLES and SAID PRIVATELY, “Blessed are the eyes which see the things you see; 24for I TELL YOU that MANY PROPHETS AND KINGS have desired to see what you see, and HAVE NOT SEEN IT, and to HEAR WHAT YOU HEAR, and HAVE NOT HEARD IT.” 25And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?” 26He said to him, “What is WRITTEN IN THE LAW? What is YOUR READING OF IT?” 27So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ ” 28And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.” 29But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And WHO IS MY NEIGHBOR?” 30Then JESUS ANSWERED and said: “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 31Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side. 33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had COMPASSION. 34So he went to him and BANDAGED HIS WOUNDS, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and TOOK CARE OF HIM. 35On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, ‘TAKE CARE OF HIM; and WHATEVER MORE YOU SPEND, when I come again, I WILL REPAY YOU.’ 36So which of these three do you think was NEIGHBOR to him who fell among the thieves? 37And he said, “He who SHOWED MERCY on him.” Then JESUS SAID to him, “GO AND DO LIKEWISE.”…” (Luke 10:21 – 37, NKJV)

 

In short, regardless if (Verses 21 to 24) and (Verses 25 to 37) are part of one continuous speech or not, the Truth is this Parable of the Good Samaritan as the Answer to “…  “Teacher, what shall I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?” …” (Luke 10:25) is part of the “…MANY PROPHETS AND KINGS have desired to HEAR WHAT YOU HEAR, and HAVE NOT HEARD IT.” …” (Luke 10:24) simply because ANYTHING WHICH CHRIST has SAID (and is RECORDED/WRITTEN) QUALIFIES for this as Any True Christian would admit likewise whether or not they understand His Intended Meaning in full just like the “Many Prophets and Kings” before them did “not” Understand “nor” heard some of these things either.

 

Can you please “see” and “hear” it “as it is Written”?

 

* In case you did not know, this Roman Catholic did these Verse/Chapter separations which is followed by even ‘protestant Bibles including the KJV for the most part’, example quote:

‘…The chapter divisions commonly used today were developed by Stephen Langton, an Archbishop of Canterbury. Langton put the modern chapter divisions into place in around A.D. 1227. …’

Protestant Source: https://www.gotquestions.org/divided-Bible-chapters-verses.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spirit of Christ and the Fear of the LORD to the Charity Doctrine Mystery

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161705339302784

 

Verses:

 

“… 1There shall come forth a [a]Rod from the [b]stem of Jesse,

And a Branch shall [c]grow out of his roots.

2The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him,

The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,

The Spirit of counsel and might,

The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.

3His DELIGHT IS IN THE FEAR OF THE LORD,

And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes,

Nor decide by the hearing of His ears;

4But WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS HE shall JUDGE THE POOR, And DECIDE WITH EQUITY FOR THE MEEK of THE EARTH; He shall strike the earth with the rod ofHis mouth, And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked. …” (Isaiah 11:1 – 4, NKJV)

 

These Verses are the most Prophetic Bible Verses regarding the “Spirit of the LORD” upon CHRIST in the Context of the “Fear if the LORD” too where it’s clearly described only as the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle acts of “… WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS HE shall JUDGE THE POOR,  …” and “… And DECIDE WITH EQUITY FOR THE MEEK of THE EARTH …”.

 

So if we really have the “Spirit of the LORD” He Will arouse us to be concerned about these Doctrines likewise.

 

Can you see it please as “it is Written“? (Please notice carefully that “no” other religious act is mentioned either proving its Primary Importance or Independent God’s Will regarding this #CharityDoctrine yet again as many Bible Verses Testify likewise).

 

Perhaps that’s why the Blessed Apostles of the Lamb Testified likewise as follows:

 

“… 10They DESIRED ONLY that we should REMEMBER the POOR, the very thing which I also was eager to do. …” – Blessed St. Paul the Great Apostle of Christ (Galatians 2:10, NKJV)

 

 

This was not some hit and run statement but the very statement of “APOSTLESHIP” (“no” higher calling exists for men) into which this ONLY RELIGIOUS ACT was SPOKEN, Verses in “Full“:

 

“… 7But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter 8(for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), 9and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10They DESIRED ONLY that we should REMEMBER the POOR, the very thing which I also was eager to do. …” – Blessed St. Paul the Great Apostle of Christ (Galatians 2:7 – 10, NKJV)

 

 

Note: The Original Koine Greek Bible’s Inspired Words is Inspiring because it mentions

 

only” (3440 [e]   monon μόνον )

The” (3588 [e] tōn τῶν)

Poor” (4434 [e] ptōchōn πτωχῶν)

that” (2443 [e] hina ἵνα)

we should remember” (3421 [e] mnēmoneuōmen μνημονεύωμεν)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/galatians/2-10.htm

 

 

 

 

In the New Testament, the only time an Angel of God was sent Physically even to a non-believer at that time, Cornelius was because it is Written that “he feared God” which only meant two things namely, “Giving Alms/Charity generously” (not giving tit bits lifestyle) + “Prayer Lifestyle“, Verses:

 

“… 1There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian [a]Regiment, 2a DEVOUT MAN and ONE WHO FEARED GOD with all his household, who GAVE ALMS GENEROUSLY to the people, and PRAYED TO GOD ALWAYS  …” (Acts 10:1 – 2, NKJV)

 

Comment: So a True “Fear God Doctrine” will likewise Teach both aspects above namely:

 

  1. GAVE ALMS GENEROUSLY (Charity Doctrine Lifestyle)
  2. PRAYED TO GOD ALWAYS

 

Now it’s clear why Angels were sent to Blessed Cornelius’ Rescue to become a #Christian.

 

So the best Churches are “not” just where the “poor” attend but are “Helped” via the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle of the #Pastors and #ChurchMembers by “Relative Measure” because “loving them as yourself” is the highest Way of Fulfilling God’s Commands to Love in Action as many Verses Testify likewise as “it is Written“.

 

Despite being used by God to do Miracles which “no” Christian living can even do nor experience a fragment of it, yet the Blessed Apostles of the Lamb  never Spoke of ‘… Doing miracles is the only thing we want to do or equivalent …’ but rather WROTE THIS UNDER THE INSPIRATION OF THE MOST BLESSED HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD upon the SEAL OF APOSTLESHIP TO BOTH THE JEWS AND GENTILES in this Verse which came ONLY WITH THIS #CharityDoctrine Command.

 

It must be linked to the SPIRIT OF CHRIST Verse by Prophecy in Isaiah 11 earlier at the start too.

 

 

 

Oh, the Heart of God Revealed in Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ Himself and also in Scripture and in the lives of the Chosen Apostles of the Lamb too as Testified here (where the “highest” Ministry call of an “Apostle” even DID NOT leave this “REMEMBER THE POOR” or #CharityDoctrineLifestyle part as an option or other people’s calling but was the ONLY DESIRE EVEN which BURNED in the HEARTS OF GOD’S Number 1’s, HIS APOSTLES even), I repeat:

 

“… 10They (Apostles) DESIRED ONLY that we should REMEMBER the POOR, the very thing which I also was eager to do. …” – Blessed St. Paul the Great Apostle of Christ (Galatians 2:10, NKJV)

 

“…   27Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28And God has appointed these in the church: FIRST APOSTLES, SECOND PROPHETS, THIRD TEACHERS, AFTER THAT MIRACLES, THEN GIFTS OF HEALINGS, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are ALL WORKERS OF MIRACLES? 30DO ALL HAVE GIFTS OF HEALINGS? DO ALL SPEAK WITH TONGUES? Do all interpret? 31But earnestly desire the [i]best gifts. And YET I SHOW YOU A MORE EXCELLENT WAY [of AGAPE/LOVE]*. …” (1 Corinthians 12:27 – 30, NKJV)

 

  1. i) All Faith and All accurate Doctrines 100% with All Prophecy with All Miracles to move mountains even but without “GOD’S LOVE” (Agape) is nothing

 

“… And though I have the GIFT OF PROPHECY, and understand all mysteries and ALL KNOWLEDGE, and though I have ALL FAITH, so that I could remove mountains, but HAVE NOT LOVE [AGAPE*], I AM NOTHING. …” (1 Corinthians 13:2, NKJV)

 

 

  1. ii) All Martyrdom of giving one’s body to burned for Christ even or the Charity Done if it’s without GOD’S LOVE (Agape) is also nothing

 

“… 3And though I bestow ALL MY GOODS TO FEED THE POOR, and though I give MY BODY [A]TO BE BURNED, but HAVE NOT LOVE [AGAPE*], it PROFITS ME NOTHING. …” (1 Corinthians 13:3, NKJV)

 

 

 

iii) There’s “no” such thing that the “Love of God” leads you to love “earthly things nor #Prosperity Lifestyle which are “things of this world” as it CONTRADICTS this Verse clearly

 

“… 15Do not love the world or the THINGS IN THE WORLD. If ANYONE LOVES THE WORLD, THE LOVE OF THE FATHER IS NOT IN HIM.  …” (1 John 2:15, NKJV)

 

So the more the LOVE of the FATHER abides in us, we will feel more to NOT love earthly things.

 

  1. iv) Then, how do we “KNOW GOD’S LOVE (Agape)”?

 

Not by ‘spiritual positions, prosperity or money blessings’ but by this #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as “noother Verse uses this phrase “KNOW GOD’S LOVE (AGAPE)” with any other religious act directly like this (if you find one please let me know but even so it does “not” remove this meaning either but adds to it only  if it exists, can you see it?):

 

“… 16By this WE KNOW LOVE (Agape, God’s Love*), because He laid down His life for us. And we also OUGHT TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR THE BRETHREN. 17But WHOEVER HAS THIS WORLD’S GOODS, and SEES HIS BROTHER IN NEED, AND SHUTS UP HIS HEART FROM HIM, HOW DOES THE LOVE OF GOD ABIDE IN HIM? 18My little children, let us NOT LOVE IN WORD or IN TONGUE, BUT IN DEED AND IN TRUTH …” (1 John 3:16 – 18, NKJV)

 

Comment: Is it a contradiction then that earlier the Verse Said the Charity Doctrine may not fulfill it?

 

Not at all.

 

The Verses combined here means that you can do a fake giving of “this World’s Goods” with the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle without love or live a #True #CharityDoctrineLifestyle with God’s Love where the former is condemned while the latter is Praised.

 

In short, you cannot live out God’s Love without the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle but not every #CharityDoctrineLifestyle may be God’s Love.

Since no one can read hearts except God Alone, we can safely skip the judging part to Him and focus on the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as the call of the SPIRIT OF CHRIST IN THE FEAR OF THE LORD to the call He Carved in the Hearts of the Blessed Apostles of the Lamb cried out in Unity to likewise “Only Desire to Remember the Poor” in whatever #Ministry that you do by “Relative Measure” (Remember the Poor Widow with 2 Coins in Luke 21:1 – 3 or the Judgment Verses in Luke 12:46 – 48 or even JUDGMENT DAY VERSES are all about the #CharityDoctrine of what one did ‘… When I was Hungry, Thirsty, Homeless, Naked, Sick, in Prison etc…’ in Matthew 25:31 – 46 likewise?) and Doing so may we fulfill #GodsWill for The Gospel in this by #GodsGraceonly and not by our human efforts.

 

“… Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them WERE THE NAMES OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB. …” (Revelation 21:14, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

Who were the First Women Priests or Women Pastors known in Christianity?

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161723647632784

 

Here’s something Deep worth thinking about

 

1) The earliest known ‘Woman Priest” practice in Christianity was done by a man called “Marcion” who is often called an ‘arch-heretic’ and attacked in the writings of many Great Church Fathers.

 

2) If some ‘Christian history professor’ claims otherwise, please ask them to show proof of Church History quote of someone earlier than Marcion within Christianity to have a ‘woman priest/pastor’. I couldn’t find any (please let me know if you did).

 

3) This may be very important simply because the idea of a “woman priest/pastor” in Christianity can so far be traced only to “Marcion” being the earliest apart from ‘other Christian-Gnostic sects which even St. Ephihanius a few hundred years later records likewise’.

 

4) In other words, this ‘woman pastor/priest’ practice has only been done  by “Gnostic-Christian heretics” and never by the “Orthodox Church”. Is it a coincidence or a pattern? That’s why we don’t take such risks.

 

If God Wanted to Institute Women Pastors/Priests why is it firstly NOT DONE BY LORD JESUS CHRIST in the GOSPELS or EARLY CHURCH  and “not” done in New Testament Scripture nor via any Church Father nor via any Protestant Founder even?

 

 

5) Here’s an example quote regarding Marcion’s Christian-Gnostic sect having “Women pastors/priests”:

 

“… In contrast to the typical Gnostic claim to a SPECIAL REVELATORY gnosis, MARCION and his followers emphasized faith in the effect of Christ’s act. They practiced stern asceticism to restrict contact with the creator’s world while looking forward to eventual salvation in the realm of the extra-worldly God. They admitted WOMEN to the PRIESTHOOD and BISHOPRIC. The Marcionites were considered the most dangerous of the Gnostics by the established church. When Polycarp met Marcion at Rome he is said to have identified Marcion as “the firstborn of Satan.”  …”

 

Source: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Marcionites

 

Note: Please notice that “Marcion” claims “special revelation” (claiming God gave him to do these “new ways” back then itself) but at the same time ’emphasizes Faith in Christ’ in some way (so does Preaching Christ even matter if from such risky claims?).

 

 

 

6) Regarding “Marcion” (in image too) here are some Church Father Quotes against this very early ‘arch-heretic’:

 

“… According to a remark by Origen (Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew 15.3), Marcion “prohibited allegorical interpretations of the scripture”. Tertullian disputed this in his treatise against Marcion.

 

Tertullian, along with Epiphanius of Salamis, also charged that Marcion set aside the gospels of Matthew, Mark and John, and used Luke alone. Tertullian cited Luke 6:43-45 (a good tree does not produce bad fruit)[26] and Luke 5:36-38 (nobody tears a piece from a new garment to patch an old garment or puts new wine in old wineskins),[27] in theorizing that Marcion set about to recover the authentic teachings of Jesus. Irenaeus claimed,

 

[Marcion’s] salvation will be the attainment only of those souls which had learned his doctrine; while the body, as having been taken from the earth, is incapable of sharing in salvation.[28]

 

Tertullian also attacked this view in De Carne Christi.[citation needed]

 

Polycarp, according to Irenaus in his work, Adversus Haereses, had an encounter with Marcion:

 

And Polycarp himself replied to Marcion, who met him on one occasion, and said, “Dost thou know me?” “I do know thee, the first-born of Satan.”

 

Hippolytus reported that Marcion’s phantasmal (and Docetist) Christ was “revealed as a man, though not a man”, and did not really die on the cross.[29] However, Ernest Evans, in editing this work, observes:

 

This may not have been Marcion’s own belief. It was certainly that of Hermogenes (cf. Tertullian, Adversus Hermogenem) and probably other gnostics and Marcionites, who held that the intractability of this matter explains the world’s many imperfections …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism

7) I Repeat (St. Polycarp is not a normal Church Father but one who is Filled with the Most Blessed Holy Spirit of God directly being appointed by Blessed Apostle St. John who wrote the Bible Book of Revelation even) to quote:

 

An Example from Church History by St. Polycarp himself regarding ‘new teachings’ not found in Scripture nor from endorsed Church Fathers, rephrased:

 

Question

 

‘… Do you know me? …’ – Marcion (Arch-Heretic)

 

Reply

 

“… “I do know thee, the first-born of Satan.” …” – Blessed St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smryna, an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of the Blessed St. John the Apostle who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 69 AD – c. 155 AD)

 

Source (Polycarp, according to St. Irenaus of Lyons in his work, Adversus Haereses):

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism

 

Even St. Justin Martyr wrote a Book AGAINST MARCION specifically targeting this women priest practice too, to quote:

 

“… This type of sexual slander often included a charge of deliberately “upsetting the lamp” during an evening service so that an orgy could take place in the dark. Justin Martyr of Rome is the first known to have used this particular sexual slander against other Jesus followers. He described it as “the upsetting of the lamp, and promiscuous intercourse.”19 This kind of “lies about debauchery and adultery” was probably what the Acts of Philip’s author was complaining about, and indeed, Justin appears to have had in mind communities which had both men and women clergy. In any case, Justin leveled this slander against the followers of two men, Simon and Marcion , both of whom were known to have evangelized with a woman. Without question Justin knew that Simon evangelized with a woman, because in the same passage that he reported that Simon and Helena evangelized together, he sexually slandered Helena, calling her a prostitute.20 Although Justin did not mention the woman who worked with Marcion in Rome, he probably also knew about her, because Jerome (374–420), who lived in Rome, knew Marcion had worked with her.21 Suggesting that Justin Martyr likely knew that women in their community performed priestly duties, including baptism, and that was why he sexually slandered them, only a few decades later, Tertullian , writing in Latin North Africa, apparently knew this.22 …” (Women Apostles: Preachers and Baptizers, Sexual Slander as Evidence of Women in the Clergy)

Source:

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-11111-3_3#Sec3

 

Comment: Notice how the authour in post in link above speaks against the Great Church Father “Justin Martyr” and supports “Marcion” and other heretics specifically in this “Woman Priest/Woman Pastor” Topic. Can you see it? (image from that book below)

 

 

 

Who is more reliable: St. Justin Martyr or “Marcion”? You decide.

“… In HIS BOOK AGAINST MARCION, JUSTIN DOES WELL SAY: “I would not have believed the Lord Himself, if He had announced any other than He who is our framer, maker, and nourisher. But because the only-begotten Son came to us from the one God, who both made this world and formed us, and contains and administers all things, summing up His own handiwork in Himself, my faith towards Him is steadfast, and my love to the Father immoveable, God bestowing both upon us.” …” …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter VI, Point 2)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html

 

How reliable is St. Justin Martyr? Example other First Christianity quote:

 

” … And Justin of Neapolis, a man who was not far separated from the apostles either in age or excellence, says that that which is mortal is inherited, but that which is immortal inherits; and that the flesh indeed dies, but the kingdom of heaven lives. …” — From METHODIUS On the Resurrection, in Photius. (Fragment V, St. Justin Martyr’s Lost Writings)

Source:  http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-fragments.html

Note: Justin of Neapolis = Blessed St. Justin Martyr

 

Also, Tertullian Warned that some of the early Christian Writing such as Thecla’s was “changed” to support “women priests baptizing etc.”, for example:

 

“… Tertullian’s complaint, in his treatise On Baptism 17, was that women were using Thecla’s example as a license to justify their own teaching and baptizing:

‘… But the woman of pertness, who has usurped the power to teach, will of course not give birth for herself likewise to a right of baptizing, unless some new beast shall arise like the former; so that, just as the one abolished baptism, so some other should in her own right confer it! But if the writings which wrongly go under Paul’s name, claim Thecla’s example as a license for women’s teaching and baptizing [exemplum Theclae ad licentiam mulierum docendi tinguendique defendant], let them know that, in Asia, the presbyter who composed that writing, as if he were augmenting Paul’s fame from his own store, after being convicted, and confessing that he had done it from love of Paul, was removed from his office.84 …” – Blessed Tertullian, Father of Latin Christianity, Founder of Western Theological Scholarship (c. 155 AD – c. 240 AD, treatise On Baptism 17)

Source:  https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-11111-3_3#Sec3

Note: The ‘same source’ admits this but doesn’t believe Tertullian’s account that this particular writing was ‘modified’ on ‘those women pastor supporting part’ as he writes above clearly. Who do you believe? Also “no” New Testament Scripture supports their position but only Tertullian’s even Church History till the 20th Century too supports only “Male Priests and Male Pastors”.

 

Also please notice how the authour in that source quotes multiple heretics just to support ‘women pastor/priest practice’ for example:

 

  1. i) The authour quotes the “Acts of Philip” which is a heretical book (in contrast, the “possible Scripture” references I quote are endorsed by some “CHURCH FATHERS and NOT KNOWN GNOSTIC HERETICS” – please notice the “difference“):

 

“… The Greek Acts of Philip (Acta Philippi) is an episodic gnostic apocryphal book of acts from the mid-to-late fourth century,[1] originally in fifteen separate acta,[2] that gives an accounting of the miraculous acts performed by the Apostle Philip, with overtones of the heroic romance. … The Acts of Philip is most completely represented by a text[3] discovered in 1974 by François Bovon and Bertrand Bouvier in the library of Xenophontos monastery on Mount Athos in Greece.[4] The manuscript dates from the fourteenth century but its language identifies it as a copy of a fourth-century original … Bovon at first suggested that the text’s character named Mariamne may be identical to Mary Magdalene … The narrative recounts that Jesus sent out a group of followers to spread his message. The followers were Philip, Bartholomew, and a woman named Mariamne, who is identified in the text as Philip’s sister, and is a leading figure in the second half of the text. They form a community that seemes to practice vegetarianism and celibacy,[4] and uses a form of the eucharist where vegetables and water were consumed in place of bread and wine.[7] Mariamne wears men’s clothes and holds positions of authority comparable to men, serving as a priest and a deacon.[4] Due to this, the Acts have been proposed to be an Encratite text with Gnostic influences,[8] with Mariamne’s clothings reaffirming her resistance against the snake of Eden’s seduction of Eve …”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Philip

 

Comment: If your modern Bible Scholars want to quote the “Acts of Philip” for “women priest/pastor ordination”, are they also ready to be “celibate” and become a “vegetarian” which is also recorded together with that in this text? If not, why believe it for that part even?

 

Please also notice that these heretical writing records that the “Holy Communion Practice/Eucharist” can be done with “vegetable and water” instead of “bread and wine”  and so, does your Church with female pastors follow this too?

 

Why not if this account is reliable as it reads ‘…eucharist where vegetables and water were consumed in place of bread and wine …’. At least using some grape-based juice is okay in place of wine due to common origin.

 

  1. ii) Apostle Irene quoted in that link earlier actually doesn’t prove her an “apostle” nor as a “priest” as even the Orthodox churches have a tradition for her life but “no” one claims her as a “priest nor an apostle” as the authour errs, example link:

 

“… After this Penelope refused marriage, accepted Baptism from the hands of the Disciple Timothy, – who was a disciple of the holy Apostle Paul, and she was named Irene. She began even to urge her own parents to accept the Christian faith. … Over 10,000 pagans were converted by Saint Irene.  The saint went from her native city Migdonia to Kallipolis, and there she continued to preach about Christ. The governor of the city by the name of Babadonos subjected the martyress to new punishments, but seeing that the saint remained unharmed, he came to his senses and believed in Christ. A large number of pagans believed together with him, all whom received holy Baptism from the Disciple Timothy. …”

 

Source: https://www.holytrinityorthodox.com/calendar/los/May/05-01.htm

 

Please notice that “she Preached Christ” which is allowed (not over Church Assembly) and regarding baptism it is clearly Written that “… all whom received holy Baptism from the Disciple Timothy. …” i.e. from a man since she as a woman cannot perform such Priestly Duties.

 

Can you see what was ‘actually Written’ instead of the claim in that link earlier?

 

This misquote is identified by the authour in that link itself where she admits that the ACTUAL TEXT RECORDS the RE-BAPTISM of anyone whom “Irene Baptized” or even “Nino Baptized” even “BEGGING Blessed TIMOTHY (supposedly the Timothy of the Bible) to RE-BAPTIZE whomever SHE BAPTIZED first“, to quote:

 

“… Although the text states that Irene baptized the people in her city, a subsequent passage describes the “holy priest” Timothy coming back and Irene begging him to baptize the people in her city—the very people, including her family, whom she had already baptized!42 This pair of seemingly contradictory passages—both Irene and Timothy baptizing the same people in the same city—is similar to contradictory passages found in a manuscript about the life of Nino , the woman who evangelized Iberia (Georgia) in the early fourth century.43 …” (Male Re-Baptizers and the Apostle Nino)

 

Source: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-11111-3_3#chapter-info

 

Note: If both Irene and Nino were “Apostles”, then why was there a need for ‘Re-Baptism by MALE PRIESTS’ since this part exists in BOTH the accounts (as she herself admits in her own quote above) but then denies its truth plainly. In other words, dating clearly shows that the sentences of these accounts contained ALL THOSE WORDS TOGETHER meaning we either take ‘all the text with it or none’ despite it being ‘true or not’ even for just an analysis.

 

  1. iv) In short, when these quoted texts are read in “full”, even the “miracle working Irene and Nino were NOT allowed to Baptize NOR perform Priestly duties such as Baptism even” and where even the more ancient story of Irene even records her BEGGING Blessed Apostle Paul’s Direct Disciple Blessed Timothy to do the RE-BAPTISM.

 

One way to understand it is that she knew she erred knowing that she as a woman cannot baptize and thus tried to correct her mistake or who knows since she had visions from God directly so God Told her to correct it.

 

Either way, in the end, even both Irene and Nino (whom only the authour calls as ‘apostles’ NOT the Orthodox Tradition which preserved these writings even as the other link shared earlier) finally shows that WOMEN can PREACH the GOSPEL but NOT PERFORM PRIESTLY DUTIES despite being able to do miracles etc. as claimed in their lives even.

  1. v) No other quotes of Baptism or Priestly role that is relevant from ‘possible important Church History’ and NOT by HERETICS/GNOSTICS is quoted by the authour for even the context of Baptism in Chapter 3 and so, yet again a careful examination of these texts actually “disprove” their position.

 

Women can Preach the Gospel and quoting that to claim women priest/pastor role is not the same as the Church Fathers to Church History to even Protestant Founders have concluded likewise as discussed in the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook in pages prior.

 

I can understand why Conservative Christians attack Women Pastor Practice vehemently (example in  image) especially in light of these Church History Quotes.

 

 

Repeating our position on this Topic as follows

 

At least I do “not” condemn #womenpastors from Salvation as I always still maintain a room of “possibility” that “what if God told them new ways in the 20th century onward” letting God Decide that in the end but even so, no one is Condemned for following what is Written as God Already Said and Approved that 100% as these Verses Testify as it is Written.

 

If I can be condemned for this, even Blessed Martin Luther (the First Protestant) to Blessed John Calvin, Blessed John Wesley to even Blessed Charles Spurgeon all are condemned since they Preached more “harshly” using these same set of Verses as I have quoted in earlier chapters in the free pdfs.

 

Note: I will only Quote “Martin Luther, the First Protestant” because any Protestant Christian must agree that ‘he is saved’ and if we preach ‘harshly’ like him even in regards to this Topic (there is “no” Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit Risk at all) and so please consider his following example quotes:

 

‘… In his great treatise ‘On the Councils and the Church’ (1539) Luther sets out seven external marks of the church. He has this to say about the fifth mark, ‘the fact that the church consecrates or calls ministers, or has offices that it is to administer’. After a wonderful paragraph in which he quotes Ephesians 4:8-11 (‘he gave apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers’) and speaks of the need to entrust the pastoral ministry to one person, he goes on:

 

“… It is, however, true that the Holy Spirit has excepted women, children, and incompetent people from this function, but chooses (except in emergencies) only competent males to fill this office, as one reads here and there in the epistles of St. Paul that a bishop must be pious, able to teach, and the husband of one wife – and in 1 Corinthians 14:34 he says, ‘The women should keep silence in the churches’. In summary, it must be a competent and chosen man. Children, women, and other persons are not qualified for this office, even though they are able to hear God’s word, to receive baptism, the sacrament, absolution, and are also true, holy Christians, as St. Peter says …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith  (1 Pet 3:7 – Luther’s Works, American Edition 41:154, 155).

 

 

“… But in the New Testament the Holy Spirit, speaking through St. Paul, ordained that women should be silent in the churches and assemblies (1 Cor 14:34), and said that this is the Lord’s commandment. Yet he knew that previously Joel (2:28,29) had proclaimed that God would pour out his Spirit also on handmaidens. Furthermore, the four daughters of Philip prophesied (Acts 21:9). But in the congregations or churches where there is a ministry women are to be silent and not preach (1 Timothy 2:12). Otherwise they may pray, sing, praise, and say ‘Amen’, and read at home, teach each other, exhort, comfort and interpret the Scriptures as best they can (LW 40:390, 391).  …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith (treatise on ‘Infiltrating and Clandestine Preachers’ from 1532, where his discussion runs through several pages (LW 40:388-391).)

 

“… The four daughters of Philip were prophetesses. A woman can do this – not preach in public, but console and teach – a woman can do this just as much as a man.  There are certainly women and girls who are able to comfort others and teach true words, that is to say, who can explain Scripture and teach and console other people…this all counts as prophesying, not preaching …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith  (Sermon on Joel 2:28 (1531) Weimar Ausgabe [Weimar Edition] XXXIV, p 483).

Protestant “Lutheran” Source:

https://thetruthinlove.net/martin-luther-on-women-pastors/

 

Here’s another famous one:

 

“… Where THERE IS A MAN, THERE NO WOMAN SHOULD TEACH OR HAVE AUTHORITY. Where there is no man, Paul has allowed that they can do this, because it happens by a man’s command. He wants to save the order preserved by the world—that a man be the head of the woman, as 1 Cor. 11:3 tells us. … Then comes the teaching, and PAUL DOES NOT ENTRUST THE MINISTRY OF THE WORD TO HER. He CONSIDERS THIS THE GREATEST THING THAT GOES ON IN THE CHURCH. You must always understand this with the condition that men are present. Paul says this that there may be peace and harmony in the churches when the Word is taught and people pray. There would be a disturbance if some woman wished to argue against the doctrine that is being taught by a man. The method of 1 Cor. 14 has now perished. I could wish it were still in effect, but it causes great strife. Where a man teaches, there is a wellrounded argument against a man. If she wishes to be wise, let her argue with her husband at home. …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith (Martin Luther, “Lectures on 1 Timothy” [1528], Luther’s Works, Vol. 28 [Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1973], pp. 276-77)

Protestant Source (Page 12, with much more in detail in pdf in link below):

https://www.angelfire.com/ny4/djw/LutherGenderMinistry.pdf

or this source too:

https://www.covenanter.org/reformed/2016/5/25/commentary-on-1-timothy-29-14

 

Our Position: “… Judge not and you won’t be judged …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (Matthew 7:1 – 2).

 

 

Details (I repeat for clarification):

 

This does not necessarily mean that the opposite positions to what we propose as the Safe Route Scripturally in this Book must we wrong but rather in some cases it could be so if God permitted it.

 

However the risk of the opposite positions is still there because we prove our position with Bible Verses and the opposite positions usually pertain to New Modern Ways which some Christians have claimed that God told them do so especially based on the Progressive Revelation Movement which we do not support.

 

Since only God Knows whether their claims are true or not, we do not judge those Christians letting God Judge them alone.

 

However, we also point out to them to have respect for these First Ways of the Church especially which are Written in Bible Verses because the Doctrinal Position we demonstrate is already Plainly Written in Holy Scripture and so it is already 100% Approved by New Testament Scripture and the First Churches which obeyed it are already Saved by Practicing it and that’s why we seek to Imitate Scripture likewise.

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

Any Friend of Christ is a Friend of Mine Way – Church Fathers Mystery

 

 

Quote in image: A Reason why we Quote the Earliest Church Fathers as it was done even by the Original First Protestant Fathers in their Book of Concord, link:

https://bookofconcord.org/

 

The ‘Church Fathers’ Quotes in the Book of Concord are Primarily in the “Testimonies” Section in link below, example quote:

 

“… 1 Since, especially in the article of the Person of Christ, some have without reason asserted that in the Book of Concord there is a deviation from phrasibus and modis loquendi, that is, the phrases and modes of speech of [received and approved by] the ancient pure Church and fathers, and that, on the contrary, new, strange, self-devised, unusual and unheard-of expressions are introduced; and since the testimonies of the ancient Church and fathers to which this book appeals proved somewhat too extended to be incorporated in it, and having been carefully excerpted, were afterwards delivered to several electors and princes, …”- Book of Concord by the First (“Original”) Protestant Fathers

 

Source: https://bookofconcord.org/testimonies/

 

The “Church Fathers” referred to are within mostly by the 6th Century which we quote heavily too, example quote from this same link:

 

“… 17 But since we must not only know and firmly believe that the assumed human nature in the person of Christ has and retains to all eternity its essence and the natural essential attributes of the same, but it is a matter of especial importance, and the greatest consolation for Christians is comprised therein, that we also know from the revelation of the Holy Scriptures, and without doubt believe the majesty to which this His human nature has been elevated in deed and truth by the personal union, and of which it thus has become personally participant, as has been extensively explained in the Book of Concord; accordingly, and in order that likewise every one may see that also in this part the book mentioned has introduced no new, strange, self-devised, unheard-of paradoxes and expressions into the Church of God, the following Catalog of Testimoniesfirst of all from the Holy Scriptures, and then also of the ancient, pure teachers of the Church, especially, however, of those fathers who were most eminent and leaders in the first four Ecumenical Councils – will clearly show, from which it may be understood how they have spoken concerning this subject. …” – Book of Concord by the First (“Original”) Protestant Fathers

 

Source: https://bookofconcord.org/testimonies/

 

Note: Please see how the Book of Concord Mentions the “Church Fathers” with respect as the ‘Friends of Christ before us’.

 

Another Example Quote from the same link above, please notice how they call the Church Fathers as “Holy Fathers” (proving such usage of terms is okay  by the “First (Original) Protestants” Standard as well):

 

“… 8 And the decree of the Council of Chalcedon, as cited by Evagrius, lib. 2, cap 4, reads thus: “Following, then, the HOLY FATHERS,, we confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, and we all set forth with one voice that the same is perfect in deity and the same perfect in humanity; that the same is truly God and truly man, consisting of a rational soul and a body;  …” – Book of Concord by the First (“Original”) Protestant Fathers

 

Source: https://bookofconcord.org/testimonies/

 

 

Another example quote where they use the phrase “Blessed Virgin” (meaning we can use it on Church Fathers too indicating their ‘Blessedness’ of being Chosen by God honouring God’s Anointing and Calling on them First before we existed even), to quote (even using the term “Catholic” which just means “Universal“):

 

“… 175 The same, in Discourse 3, On the Passion: “This the CATHOLIC faith teaches, this it requires, that we know that in our Redeemer two natures have united, and that, while their properties remained, such a union of both substances has occurred that, from the time in which the Word became flesh in the womb of the BLESSED VIRGIN, we are not to think of God without this, that He is man; nor of the man without this, that He is God. …”  Book of Concord by the First (“Original”) Protestant Fathers

 

Source: https://bookofconcord.org/testimonies/

 

Since we can be corrected in Doctrine (teachable spirit), that’s why we changed our Doctrines and Possibilities of Doctrine according to the Writings of the most Authoritative First Fathers of the Church. We quote the Church Fathers for almost every quote made to prove that the Bible Verses are “not” just understood like that by us but mainly by them first too.

 

Only arrogant Preaching quote themselves with “no” Church History quotes from Protestant Founders nor Church Fathers. Why they don’t quote Church History? Because they have none other than the modern 20th century times.

 

Another Reason:

 

“…40“He who receives you receives Me, … 41He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. 42And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 10:40 – 42, highlighted phrases, NKJV)

 

 

 

Note: Some of the Church Fathers we are quoting didn’t just quote the Bible but also were used by God to Decide which Books are to be in the Bible together with ‘which Manuscript variant even’ and also to ‘preserve them’ meaning in any Church or where the Gospel is Preached, including in any ‘modern churches too’, they have a touch on your Bible too in some way since theirs was the ‘Original Hebrew + Original Koine Greek Bible’.

 

So, we certainly esteem the ‘Church Fathers’ ‘better’ than us to fulfill this Verse (not by arbitrarily quoting some unconfirmed spiritual achievements but rather what even the very Founders of Protestantism have endorsed wholeheartedly even if they don’t see eye to eye on each Doctrine with every Church Father), Verse:

 

“… Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind LET EACH ESTEEM OTHERS BETTER THAN HIMSELF. …” (Philippians 2:3, NKJV)

 

To quote from Page 93 from the #MysteryoftheKingdomofHeavenBook:

 

The first Lutherans in general had more respect for the “Church Fathers” (even if the Church Fathers could be doctrinally wrong from their view point) and must certainly view them as “saved” despite “differences in doctrine”, to quote regarding the ‘Lutheran Book of Concord‘:

 

“… The Lutheran Church did not start in the 1500s, but is the continuation of the one catholic (universal) Church, including everyone who taught and believed the one catholic faith. In The Book of Concord, the Early Church fathers are referenced and quoted in every confessional document (except the Small Catechism). Here are all the ones mentioned: Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, and Tertullian from the second century. Origen, Cyprian, Anthony of Egypt, Athanasius, Basil of Caesarea, Gregory of Nazianzus, Gregory of Nyssa, John Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexandria, Hilary of Poitiers, Jerome, Ambrose, Augustine, and Leo I covered the third, fourth, and fifth centuries .Gregory I, Bede, and John of Damascus from the sixth, seventh, and eighth centuries. These men taught and wrote throughout the Roman Empire: from Judea to England; from northern Africa to Italy and Asia Minor. They are the leading teachers of the whole Church throughout the first eight centuries of Christian history, and the Lutherans claim them as their fathers in the faith. … Quoting the Early Church fathers does not imply that Christian teaching is founded on the authority of men (Catalog of Testimonies, Conclusion). Lutherans hold the Scriptures to be “the only true standard or norm by which all teachers and doctrines are to be judged” (Formula, Solid Declaration, Summary, 3). But those teachers and doctrines that are judged true should also be appreciated and used. The Christian faith did not originate with us. The Christian faith is handed on from one generation of saints to the next, as each generation holds to Scripture. There is so much we can learn from the faithful teachers of the ancient Church, for we are all part of the same catholic Church. They should not be strangers to us. If we are truly Lutheran, then they are truly our fathers. …”

 

Source:

https://lutheranreformation.org/history/lutherans-early-church-fathers/

 

Note: If you see carefully, many of the “Church Fathers” here are the ‘same ones’ I quote frequently in many of my writings. The argument of ‘who could be right is open’ but condemning each other due to these doctrinal differences may be a “Prideful” attitude rather than an edifying one (because one could be wrong on other doctrinal points too). For me, if a ‘possibility of doctrine’ is taught which is “not” found in any of these “listed Church Fathers” here, then it’s most likely a “Christian cult”.

 

Please don’t worry about modern churches which teach new things or if they don’t accept the Church Fathers simply because ‘if they teach you to disrespect Written New Testament Traditions or even Church Fathers’, then why you respect them?

 

If they claim new ways, let God deal with them (whether God told them so) but we don’t need to respect their disrespect toward all these approved ancient ways of Christianity.

 

In other words, when you respect their ways say against New Testament Tradition verses (example 1 Corinthians 11 to 14), you are at the same time disrespecting actual Bible Verses found here whether knowingly or unknowingly which such “Risk” or error is “not” Found among “Church Fathers” nor the “Protestant Founders” even. So that’s why I choose this safe path.

 

Indeed, this might be the safest way Scripturally as per Verse below  to OBEY to “SPEAK the SAME THING” (where the ‘Church Fathers differ, it may be forgivable if wrong since even Protestant Founders affirm that they are saved’) in 1 Corinthians 1:10 in a few translations:

 

King James Bible

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, THAT YE ALL SPEAK THE SAME THING, and that there be NO DIVISIONS among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

New King James Version

Now I plead with you, brethren, by the NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, THAT YOU ALL SPEAK THE SAME THING, and that there be NO DIVISIONS among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

New American Standard Bible

Now I urge you, brothers and sisters, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that YOU ALL AGREE and that there be NO DIVISIONS among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Source: https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/1-10.htm

 

Please always ask (example questions for self-check):

 

1) Who was the First Person in Church History whom you can quote for your ‘Doctrinal Claim’? If not you are disobeying 1 Corinthians 1:10. Can you see it?

 

2) Is the person you quoted a ‘Church Father’?

 

3) Is there a Church Father who claimed differently from what you claimed? If so, who is earlier and more authoritative or more likely to be true?

 

This is the #SafeRouteScripturally for “Sound Doctrine” or “Possibilities of Doctrine“.

 

 

Peace to you!

 

 

 

 

 

Good Soil as the Number of Converts and not the Seed – Further Mysteries

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161704440952784

 

Verse:

 

“… But HE THAT RECEIVED SEED INTO GOOD GROUND IS HE THAT  that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 13:23,KJV)

 

Details:

 

1) “… HE THAT RECEIVED SEED INTO GOOD GROUND IS HE THAT …” = Seed (Word of God) is sown into the “Good Ground” (Christian Convert)

 

2) “… INTO GOOD GROUND IS HE THAT …” = “Good Ground” refers to the “Christian Convert” and so “how many Good Grounds?” = “number of converts“.

 

3) “… Seed …” = “Word of God” (Luke 8:11)

 

4) “… Fruit to Maturity …” = “Amount of Word of GOD from the NEW TESTAMENT BELIEVED (Beliefs) and those COMMANDS which are OBEYED in ACTION (Rules) & That’s why we don’t discard NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS either as these are COMMANDS OF THE LORD according to 1 Corinthians 14:37

 

In comparison,

“… Fruits NOT to Maturity …” = “Amount of Word of GOD from the NEW TESTAMENT BELIEVED but not fully nor accurately (Beliefs) and those COMMANDS which are OBEYED  in ACTION (Rules) & That’s why we don’t discard NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS either as these are COMMANDS OF THE LORD according to 1 Corinthians 14:37 where these are not fully obeyed either could cause some fruits not to be borne to maturity either” as Christ Warned in this Parable as follows:

“… 14Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are CHOKED with CARES, RICHES, and pleasures of life, and BRING NO FRUIT TO MATURITY. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 8:14, NKJV)

 

What is the Real Meaning of ‘Christian Maturity’ based on Christ’s Words here?

 

Risk Element: Please notice that ‘earthly cares’ (e.g. #Prosperity thinking) and #Riches too (busy thinking about making money or acquiring earthly possessions to enjoy life as even unbelievers focus much on this) are the PRIME REASONS CHRIST HIMSELF WARNS here that causes even SUCH REJECTED CHRISTIAN CONVERTS because they will “… BRING NO FRUIT TO MATURITY. …” indicating ‘they may HAVE FRUITS’ but ‘NOT MATURED FRUITS’ which can mean “have obedience but not matured obedience= ‘obey some commands but ignore the rest of the New Testament Commands’ (That’s why to avoid this risk, we do “not” discard NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS either as the last few posts we showed clearly how even JUDGMENT for breaking a ‘new testament tradition’ [e.g. in pages 473 to 477 or Pages 564 to 579 or even Pages 640 to 644] clearly is described as “… having CONDEMNATION [Judgment] for having CAST OFF THEIR FIRST FAITH …” [1 Timothy 5:12] to “… DENIED the FAITHWORSE than an UNBELIEVER …” [1 Timothy 5:8] as these ‘Bible Verses’ (“not” me) WARN using such HARSH WORDS even with “no” other sin mentioned apart from ‘breaking just a New Testament Tradition’ (i.e.  all other factors held constant, even without even a 10 Commandment mentioned to broken by ‘such Christian Converts’) as “it is Written“.

 

Can you see it? That’s why I prefer to Preach Harsh regarding Keeping these New Testament Traditions even so that regardless I never risked your “fruit to no maturity” for such “Commands” and also by obeying it it is you who gain “these fruits” (hence heavenly rewards too) which ‘many other Christian converts may have ignored and hence may not attain to such rewards’ even if saved (as per the Principle  based on HIS NEW TESTAMENT COMMANDS only now according to this Verse even):

 

“… 19Whoever therefore BREAKS one of the LEAST of THESE COMMANDMENTS, and TEACHES men so, shall be called LEAST in the kingdom of HEAVEN; but whoever DOES AND TEACHES them, he shall be called GREAT in the kingdom of HEAVEN. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:19, NKJV)

Can you see that CHRIST ASKS us to BOTH DO AND TEACH HIS NEW TESTAMENT COMMANDS here in this Verse above? Now even the New Testament Traditions are part of His Commands based in 1 Corinthians 14:37, and so best is to do and Preach that too, right?

Also, please note that Christ Didn’t Say ‘Preach Prosperity and easy life and enjoy life or get more money in My Name’ though something like that is resounded more, isn’t it?

Comment: Please remember that say for every modern man/woman you quote who disobeys ‘some of these New Testament Traditions’, if you read Church History, you can also find great men and women of God who OBEYED these New Testament Traditions even. Since “Obedience is better than Sacrifice” (1 Samuel 15:22), the better choice is to obey, right?

 

5) Here’s Matthew 13:23 in a few translations to understand this same meaning

Source: https://biblehub.com/matthew/13-23.htm

New International Version

But the seed falling on GOOD SOIL REFERS TO SOMEONE WHO hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

 

New Living Translation

The seed that fell on GOOD SOIL REPRESENTS THOSE who truly hear and understand God’s word and produce a harvest of thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times as much as had been planted!”

 

English Standard Version

As for what was sown on GOOD SOIL, THIS IS THE ONE who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

 

New King James Version

But he who received seed on the GOOD GROUND IS HE WHO HEARS the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

 

New American Standard Bible

But the one sown with seed on the GOOD SOIL, THIS IS THE ONE WHO HEARS the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces, some a hundred, some sixty, and some thirty times as much.”

6) ThirtyFold vs SixtyFold vs HundredFold Fruits

 

Here’s an Analogy to understand this better

 

I see it like this: the earliest Church Leaders (e. g. the “Church Fathers” to the “Protestant Founders” are the “Ferari’s of Faith” – ‘the rarest faiths’, the “Hundredfold ones”).

 

The multitude of converts like you and I are just “kancils of faith” (the “thirtyfold ones”, using the analogy  a cheap car to illustrate how pointless our opinions are when we Speak AGAINST BIBLE VERSES and especially with NO CHURCH HISTORY PROOF QUOTES) which can refer to the THIRTYFOLD vs SIXTYFOLD vs HUNDREDFOLD Fruit Harvest.

 

So,  a Church with “big numbers” can just be a gathering of many “thirtyfolds” with a lesser “sixtyfolds” among them and the least “hundredfolds” too if any.

 

This is the Deep Theology regarding “Number of Converts

 

Example: Christ Himself had only “12 Apostles” at the highest levels or the “Firstfruit” of Salvation refers to purely “144 000 unmarried Jewish Virgin Men only” (Revelation 7:1 – 10, Revelation 14:1 – 5) as the “Firstfruits” indicates the holiest lot which has nothing to do with number of converts as ‘how many unmarried Jewish Virgin Men from history even are known to have big number of converts or pastor mega churches’?

 

Well this is what the Bible clearly Teaches in the Quoted Verses “as it is Written“.

 

Details Example:

 

  1. i) The Bible mentions the 144,000 in Revelation 7:4 – 8 (in 5 Verses) first

 

  1. ii) and only then the rest of the multitude of the saved in Revelation 7:9 (in 1 Verse only)

 

Can you see how important these 144,000 were? I am “not” Jewish or fulfill any of these qualifications but I am fascinated by how close they were to God that God Reveals them like that further in Revelation 14 as follows:

 

“… 1Then I looked, and behold, [a]a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and WITH HIM ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-FOUR THOUSAND, [b]having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. … . 3They SANG AS IT WERE A NEW SONG before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and NO ONE COULD LEARN THAT SONG except the HUNDRED AND FORTY-FOUR THOUSAND who were redeemed from the earth. 4These are the ones WHO WERE NOT DEFILED WITH WOMEN, FOR THEY ARE VIRGINS. These are the ones WHO FOLLOW THE LAMB WHEREVER HE GOES. These were [c]redeemed from among men, being FIRSTFRUITS to God and to the Lamb …” (Revelation 14:1, 3 – 4, NKJV)

 

Just because you and I cannot become these closest Friend of Christ till they can “WORSHIP GOD with a unique song which NO OTHER BELIEVER CAN LEARN EVEN” (phrase here: ‘… NO ONE COULD LEARN THAT SONG except the HUNDRED AND FORTY-FOUR THOUSAND …’) but yet we should Preach such Beautiful Truths because the Bible does!

 

 

7) First Christianity Quotes regarding the Thirtyfold vs Sixtyfold vs Hundredfold Fruits  of the Gospel

 

I learnt that the “number of converts” = “good soil” from Matthew 13:23 earlier but only realized this accuracy and possibly mysteries beyond when I read the “Church Fathers” regarding this Topic a few years ago. Here’s an example from St. Jerome only (please don’t discard St. Jerome so easily because his Bible stood as the only Bible used in Churches and missionary work for 1000 years! (between about 500 AD to 1500 AD) where even the KJV Bible or Protestant Bibles haven’t even reached half that years & are “not’ the only translation used and so he may be recording Various Scriptural Traditions understanding of these Thirtyfold vs Sixtyfold vs Hundredfold Mysteries of the Gospel some of which may have “not” been Written intentionally in Bible Verses since in this Parable itself Christ Said that “not” everyone would know these “Secrets (Mysteries) regarding the “Kingdom of Heaven” e.g. Matthew 13:11 or Luke 8:10 and so if it’s Written everyone would know it & thus we can look for the Unwritten part for ‘This Topic of Thirtyfold vs Sixtyfold vs Hundredfold Mysteries of the Gospel’ as #SolaScriptura approach itself allows this “Possibility” as no one knows for sure but one can prepare for it with “no” condemnation if keen), to quote:

 

“…  And it is to be noted, that as in the bad ground there were three degrees of difference, to wit, that by the way side, the stony and the thorny ground; so in the good soil there is a three-fold difference, the hundred-fold, the sixty-fold, and the thirty- fold. And in this as in that, not the substance but the will is changed, and the hearts as well of the unbelieving as the believing receive seed; as in the first case He said, “Then cometh the wicked one, and carrieth off that which is sown in the heart;” and in the second and third case of the bad soil He said, “This is he that heareth the word.” So also in the exposition of the good soil, “This is he that heareth the word.” Therefore we ought first to hear, then to understand, and after understanding to bring forth the fruits of teaching, either an hundred-fold, or sixty, or thirty. [p. 493] … vid. Cyp. Tr. iv. 12: The hundred-fold fruit is to be ascribed to virgins, the sixty-fold to widows and continent persons, the thirty-fold to chaste wedlock. … Hieron. Ep. 48, 2: For the joining together of the hands, as it were in the soft embrace of a kiss, represents husband and wife. The sixty-fold refers to widows, who as being set in narrow circumstances and affliction are denoted by the depression of the finger; for by how much greater is the difficulty of abstaining from the allurements of pleasure once known, so much greater is the reward. The hundredth number passes from the left to the right, and by its turning round with the same fingers, not on the same hand, it expresses the crown of virginity. [ed. note: ~ This alludes to the method of notation by the fingers described by Bede (with reference to this passage of S. Jerome,) in his treatise ‘De Indigitatione,’ vol i. 131. The expression, ‘atque suos jam dextra computat annos,’ Juv. will occur immediately to the classical reader.] …”– Blessed St. Jerome of the Vulgate, Second Latin Doctor of the Church who did the First Official Translation of the Bible out of Its Original Languages into Latin, Priest, Confessor, Secretary to Pope Damasus I (c. 347 AD – c. 420 AD)

Source:

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/matthew-commentary/catena-aurea-on-matthew/chapter-1/chapter-2/chapter-3/chapter-4/chapter-5/chapter-6/chapter-7/chapter-8/chapter-9/chapter-10/chapter-11/chapter-12/chapter-13

 

 

8.) How about where the “Gospel Seed” is “not” Sown?

 

Mystery Part regarding where the “Gospel SEED was NOT SOWN“: Possible Hope for non-Christians who were Merciful toward Christians with the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle

 

“… Also, by this which this servant dared to say, “Thou reapest where thou sowedst not,” [Matthew 25:26] we understand that the Lord accepts the good life of the Gentiles and of the Philosophers. …” –  Blessed St. Jerome of the Vulgate, Doctor of the Church who did the First Official Translation of the Bible out of Its Original Languages into Latin, Priest, Confessor, Secretary to Pope Damasus I (c. 347 AD – c. 420 AD)

 

Source [ Patristic Bible Commentary, Catena Aurea, Matthew 25:14 – 30, P. 853 ]:

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/matthew-commentary/catena-aurea-on-matthew/chapter-1/chapter-2/chapter-3/chapter-4/chapter-5/chapter-6/chapter-7/chapter-8/chapter-9/chapter-10/chapter-11/chapter-12/chapter-13/chapter-14/chapter-15/chapter-16/chapter-17/chapter-18/chapter-19/chapter-20/chapter-21/chapter-22/chapter-23/chapter-24/chapter-25

 

This is an example of “Doctrinal Possibility” because a First Christianity Quote like this was ‘Recorded’ hence was believed by ‘some early Christians of Church Fathers even’.

 

Since we are “not” sure whether this interpretation is true or not, so we let God Decide on Judgment Day and whatever He Decides we accept it either way Honouring God’s Sovereignty.

 

 

Peace to you

I just discovered Blessed Martin Luther, the First Protestant’s Preaching regarding the meaning of this Parable the same. Example Quotes:

The First Protestant Martin Luther’s Parable of the Sower Sermon

  1. i) Short Quote

 

“… 1. This Gospel treats of the DISCIPLES and THE FRUITS, which the WORD OF GOD DEVELOPS in the world. It does NOT SPEAK OF THE LAW NOR OF HUMAN INSTITUTIONS; but, as CHRIST HIMSELF SAYS, of the WORD OF GOD, which he himself the SOWER PREACHES, for THE LAW BEARS NO FRUIT, just as LITTLE as DO THE INSTITUTIONS OF MEN. Christ however sets forth here four kinds of DISCIPLES OF THE DIVINE WORD. 7. The fourth class are those who lay hold of and KEEP THE WORD in a good and honest heart, and BRING FORTH FRUIT with patience, THOSE WHO HEAR THE WORD and STEADFASTLY RETAIN IT, MEDITATE UPON IT and ACT IN HARMONY WITH IT. …” – Blessed Martin Luther, the First Champion of the Protestant Faith (Points 1 & 7 – partial, Parable of the Sower, THE SERMONS OF MARTIN LUTHER, VOL. II, PAGE 113 THE DISCIPLES & THE FRUITS OF GOD’S WORD)

 

Source: https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/luther/sower.htm

 

Comment: ANY WORD (Doctrinal Belief or Command from CHRIST in the NEW TESTAMENT ONLY & that’s why we don’t set aside the New Testament Traditions either which are “Commands of the Lord too” according to 1 Corinthians 14:37) and all these Qualifies to be the “Seed” upon which one beliefs, meditates and acts as Martin Luther himself Teaches this ‘same meaning’. Can you see it?

  1. ii) Full Quote

 

“… 7. The fourth class are those who lay hold of and KEEP THE WORD in a good and honest heart, and BRING FORTH FRUIT with patience, THOSE WHO HEAR THE WORD and STEADFASTLY RETAIN IT, MEDITATE UPON IT and ACT IN HARMONY WITH IT. The devil does not snatch it away, nor are they thereby led astray, moreover the heat of persecution does not rob them of it, and the thorns of pleasure and the avarice of the times do not hinder its growth; but they bear fruit by teaching others and by developing the kingdom of God, hence they also do good to their neighbor in love; and therefore Christ adds, “they bring forth fruit with patience.” For these must suffer much on account of the Word, shame and disgrace from fanatics and heretics, hatred and jealousy with injury to body and property from their persecutors, not to mention what the thorns and the temptations of their own flesh do, so that it may well be called the Word of the cross; for he who would keep it must bear the cross and misfortune, and triumph. field, 8. He says: “In honest and good hearts.” Like a field that is without a thorn or brush, cleared and spacious, as a beautiful clean place: so a heart is also cleared and clean, broad and spacious, that is without cares and avarice as to temporal needs, so that the Word of God truly finds lodgment there. But the field is good, not only when it lies there cleared and level, but when it is also rich and fruitful, possesses soil and is productive, and not like a stony and gravelly field. Just so is the heart that has good soil and with a full spirit is strong, fertile and good to keep the Word and bring forth fruit with patience. …” – Blessed Martin Luther, the First Champion of the Protestant Faith (Points 1,7 and 8, Parable of the Sower, THE SERMONS OF MARTIN LUTHER, VOL. II, PAGE 113 THE DISCIPLES & THE FRUITS OF GOD’S WORD)

 

Source: https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/luther/sower.htm

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

Mystery of the Seed in the Parable of the Sower – Word of God

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161700013452784

 

Popular Fallacy: The “Seed” sown on “Good Ground” refers to “number of converts“.

 

Biblical Truth: The “Seed” sown on “Good Ground” refers to “How many Word of God (be it Commands to Doctrine) which gets sown in us (meaning we obey it)” + “how much of #CharityDoctrineLifestyle we Practice toward each other“. In fact, can you see that the “number of converts” is equal to the “number of Good Grounds” because each ‘good ground’ refers to a ‘convert in Christianity’. So, the ‘Seed’ is the ‘Word of God’  sown in each “Good Ground or Convert”. So more “Seed/Word of God” is sown, “more Fruits” be it in terms of “Doctrinal accuracy (beliefs) and Commands” has a potential to be formed.

 

 

Let’s look at Bible Verses to learn this Truth accurately.

 

1) “SEED” = “Word of God” ONLY in the “Parable of the Sower

 

“… 9Then His disciples asked Him, saying, “What does this parable mean?” 10And He said, “To you it has been given to know the [f]mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that ‘Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.’11“Now the parable is this: The SEED is THE WORD OF GOD. 12Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of [g]temptation fall away. 14Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 8:9 – 15, NKJV)

 

Note: Please notice that some “Seed” fell on “Good Ground” while others on bad ground even some where there is “no” maturity of fruit meaning “no” full obedience is achieved. So, the quote in image is true in that the duty of the Preacher is Done with sowing the WRITTEN WORD of GOD = “SEED” (as it cannot have human origins or human words but purely from CHRIST ALONE, GOD’S WORD) as Romans 10:17 in two translations below Reveal clearly too:

 

New King James Version

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

New American Standard Bible

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

 

Please notice that “FAITH” is ONLY formed when it is the “WORD of GOD” = “WORD of CHRIST” (where Written Bible Verses are Primarily meant).

 

Since the “Seed” is the “Word of God” (Written Bible Verses only), so whoever is “Good Ground” it will grow into the “Fruit of Obedience” producing the “Fruit according to His Command” which is “Obeyed”.

 

More Commands Obeyed, More Fruits. Why must it be Written Verses only? Because the ‘same Seed’ must exist from First Christianity to today’s Christianity as per the COMMAND to SPEAK the SAME in Verses below:

 

“… Now I plead with you, brethren, by the NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, THAT YOU ALL SPEAK THE SAME THING, and that there be NO DIVISIONS among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. …” (1 Corinthians 1:10, NKJV)

 

2) The “SEED” = “Charity Doctrine Lifestyle” mainly

 

“… 6But this I say: HE WHO SOWS SPARINGLY WILL ALSO REAP SPARINGLY,  and HE WHO SOWS BOUNTIFULLY WILL ALSO REAP BOUNTIFULLY. 7So let EACH ONE GIVE as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of [f]necessity; FOR GOD LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER. 8And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all SUFFICIENCY IN ALL THINGS, may have an ABUNDANCE FOR EVERY GOOD WORK. 9As it is written: “He has dispersed abroad, He has GIVEN TO THE POOR; His RIGHTEOUSNESS endures FOREVER.” 10Now [g]may He who supplies SEED TO THE SOWER, and bread for food, [h]supply and multiply the SEED YOU HAVE SOWN and INCREASE THE FRUITS OF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, 11while you are enriched in everything for ALL LIBERALITY, which causes THANKSGIVING THROUGH US TO GOD. 12For the ADMINISTRATION OF THIS SERVICE not only SUPPLIES THE NEEDS OF THE SAINTS, but also is ABOUNDING THROUGH MANY THANKSGIVINGS TO GOD, 13while, through the PROOF OF THIS MINISTRY, THEY GLORIFY GOD for the OBEDIENCE OF YOUR CONFESSION to the GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and for YOUR LIBERAL SHARING WITH THEM and ALL MEN, …” (2 Corinthians 9:6 – 13, NKJV)

 

Comments:

 

  1. i) In these Verses, the ONLY RELIGIOUS ACT mentioned is the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle and it’s called “SOWING THE SEED BOUNTIFULLY” in the only Context of GIVING to the NEEDS of the SAINTS especially GIVING to the POOR together with LIBERAL SHARING (of earthly Goods) with ALL MEN too (“not” Christians only”) as PROOF of OBEDIENCE to the GOSPEL OF CHRIST.

 

 

 

 

  1. ii) Example Highlighted Phrases here for “Context” of “SEED” and “SOWING” meant

 

“… HE WHO SOWS BOUNTIFULLY WILL ALSO REAP BOUNTIFULLY …” = “…FOR GOD LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER.  …” = “… He has GIVEN TO THE POOR;  …” = “… supplies SEED TO THE SOWER, and bread for food, [h]supply and multiply the SEED YOU HAVE SOWN and INCREASE THE FRUITS OF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS …” = “… SUPPLIES THE NEEDS OF THE SAINTS …” = “… PROOF OF THIS MINISTRY, THEY GLORIFY GOD for the OBEDIENCE OF YOUR CONFESSION to the GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and for YOUR LIBERAL SHARING WITH THEM and ALL MEN, …”.

 

It doesn’t get any clearer than this that the “SEED” includes the Primary Definition or COMMANDS (from the Word of God) as referring to the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle to Christians and non-Christians according to our willingness. Can you see it as it is Written please? So any #TrueChurch must have this as an essential Doctrine as it’s linked directly to the PARABLE of the SOWER’s SEED where the PRIMARY SEED is HIS #CharityDoctrineLifestyle COMMANDS as we can see it #SolaScriptura by viewing these Verses based on this ‘same word’ or Context (‘Topic’) likewise.

 

3) Obeying or Keeping God’s  New Testament Commands = part of Everlasting Life to Know Him (or get closer to Him) = Another type of Gospel “Seed” too

 

“…  48He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50And I KNOW THAT HIS COMMAND IS EVERLASTING LIFE. Therefore, WHATEVER I SPEAK, JUST AS THE FATHER HAS TOLD ME, SO I SPEAK.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (John 12:48 – 50, NKJV)

 

“… 3And THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE, that THEY MAY KNOW YOU, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and JESUS CHRIST whom You have sent. 4I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify Me together [b]with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.6“I have [c]manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and THEY HAVE KEPT YOUR WORD. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (John 17:3 – 6, NKJV)

 

“… IF YOU LOVE ME, KEEP [Obey] MY COMMANDMENTS. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:15, NKJV)

“… 23JESUS ANSWERED and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will KEEP MY WORD; and MY FATHER WILL LOVE HIM, and WE WILL COME TO HIM and MAKE OUR HOME WITH HIM. 24He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me. …” (John 14:23 – 24, NKJV)

 

“… 46“But WHY DO YOU CALL ME ‘LORD, LORD,’ and NOT DO THE THINGS WHICH I SAY? 47Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: 48He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:46 – 48, NKJV)

 

4) Righteousness Increases when more New Testament Commands (even Traditions) are OBEYED in Principle of Verses below

 

“… Oh, that YOU HAD HEEDED MY COMMANDMENTS! Then your peace would have been like a river, And YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS like the WAVES OF THE SEA. …” (Isaiah 48:18, NKJV)

 

“… 18And JESUS CAME AND SPOKE TO THEM, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. …” (Matthew 28:18 – 20, NKJV)

 

Yes, New Testament Traditions are part of the “ALL THAT I COMMANDED YOU” through HIS APOSTLES:

 

“… If anyone THINKS himself to be a PROPHET or SPIRITUAL, let him ACKNOWLEDGE that the things which I WRITE TO YOU ARE THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD. …” (1 Corinthians 14:37, NKJV)

 

“… 2that YOU MAY BE MINDFUL OF THE WORDS which were spoken before by the holy prophets, AND OF THE COMMANDMENT OF [a]US, THE APOSTLES OF THE LORD AND SAVIOR, 3knowing this first: THAT SCOFFERS WILL COME IN THE LAST DAYS, …” (2 Peter 3:2 – 3, NKJV)

 

“… 19Whoever therefore BREAKS one of the LEAST of THESE COMMANDMENTS, and TEACHES men so, shall be called LEAST in the kingdom of HEAVEN; but whoever DOES AND TEACHES them, he shall be called GREAT in the kingdom of HEAVEN. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:19, NKJV)

 

Comment: This is “not” self righteousness which Christ Scolded the Pharisees because ‘the Pharisees’ righteousness was based on UNWRITTEN man made rules and commandments while IGNORING ACTUAL WRITTEN WORD OF GOD making it to NO EFFECT’, Verses in Comparison:

 

“… 13MAKING THE WORD OF GOD OF NO EFFECT THROUGH YOUR TRADITION which you have handed down. And many such things you do.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:13, NKJV)

 

“…  5But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]COMMANDMENT OF GOD OF NO EFFECT by YOUR TRADITION. 7HYPOCRITES! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8‘These people [c]DRAW NEAR TO ME WITH THEIR MOUTH, And HONOR ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME. 9And IN VAIN THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.’ ” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 15:5 – 9, NKJV)

 

Note: Self righteousness is doing things what is NOT WRITTEN and also DOING and SPEAKING AGAINST WHAT IS WRITTEN as CHRIST clearly Defined it in Verses above making “their WORSHIP VAIN” for following MAN MADE WAYS  as per Verses above BY CHRIST.

 

This Gives Full Glory to Christ Alone because “Preaching Christ is Preaching what He Commanded too” and thus it is not us but He Who Works His Commands in us, Verses:

 

“…for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. …” (Philippians 2:13, NKJV)

 

Indeed, Self Righteousness is claiming ‘Good Works comes naturally to them or that they do it to be saved’ while “Good Works” Done Truthfully is acknowledging that it is Done Solely on the Command of God Alone by HIM WORKING in US and NOT BY OURSELVES.

The #SolaFide Preacher Apostle St. Paul is the one Taught all these “New Testament Traditions” to be kept and Preached the other New Testament Commands which are the “SEED” where only the abolished Torah’s parts are to be rejected:

 

“… Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD. …” (1 Corinthians 7:19, KJV)

 

“… 16Therefore I URGE YOU, IMITATE ME. 17For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and FAITHFUL son in the Lord, who will remind you of MY WAYS IN CHRIST, AS I TEACH EVERYWHERE IN EVERY CHURCH. …” (1 Corinthians 4:16 – 17, NKJV)

 

“… Now I PRAISE YOU, BRETHREN, that you remember me in all things and KEEP THE TRADITIONS JUST AS I DELIVERED THEM TO YOU. …” (1 Corinthians 11:2, NKJV)

 

“… Therefore, brethren, STAND FAST AND HOLD THE TRADITIONS which YOU WERE TAUGHT, WHETHER BY WORD OR OUR EPISTLE. …” (2 Thessalonians 2:15, NKJV)

 

“… But we COMMAND YOU, BRETHREN, in the NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, that you WITHDRAW FROM EVERY BROTHER who walks DISORDERLY and NOT ACCORDING TO THE TRADITION which he received from us. …” (2 Thessalonians 3:6, NKJV)

 

Please be careful of any Christianity which downplays God’s New Testament Commands calling it human tradition as this Verse Warns to “not view Bible Verses” as ‘human words’ but as “GOD’S WORDS”:

 

“… 13For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because WHEN YOU RECEIVED THE WORD OF GOD which you heard from us, YOU WELCOMED IT NOT AS the WORD OF MEN, but AS IT IS IN TRUTH, the WORD OF GOD, which also effectively works in you who believe.  …” (1 Thessalonians 2:13, NKJV)

 

So, just like Blessed Apostle St. Paul, if we teach the CORRECT type of SOLA FIDE DOCTRINE, we will likewise TEACH ALL THESE VERSES as he himself did (including the New Testament Traditions/Rules too, e.g. 1 Corinthians 11:1 – 2, 1 Corinthians 14:37). Can you see it please ‘as it is Written’?

 

Why do these need to be Preached?

 

Similarly, in analogy, just like “Holiness Commands” (e.g. Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not Murder, Honour your Parents etc.) needs to be Taught, likewise Practice the “Charity Doctrine” Good Works of “GIVE and SHARE” commands by Christ or New Testament Verses needs to be Preached likewise.

 

Since the “Seed” is the “Word of God” (Written Bible Verses only), so whoever is “Good Ground” it will grow into the “Fruit of Obedience” producing the “Fruit according to His Command” which is “Obeyed”.

 

More Commands Obeyed or Gospel Preached, More Fruits, Verse:

 

“… 13Now I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that I often planned to come to you (but was hindered until now), that I MIGHT HAVE SOME FRUIT AMONG YOU ALSO, just as among the other Gentiles. 14I am a debtor both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to wise and to unwise. 15So, as much as is in me, I AM READY TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO YOU WHO ARE IN ROME ALSO. …” (Romans 1:13, NKJV)

 

Comment: Please notice carefully that “… that I MIGHT HAVE SOME FRUIT AMONG YOU ALSO, …” = “…  I AM READY TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO YOU WHO ARE IN ROME ALSO. …”. So more Gospel Word/Command is Preached, more FRUIT.

 

Another Verse where the “GOSPEL” includes PREACHING to PRODUCE OBEDIENCE in both WORD and ACTION (or “DEED”):

 

“…For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ has not accomplished through me, in WORD AND DEED, to make the GENTILES OBEDIENT— …” (Romans 15:18, NKJV)

 

or in another translation

 

“… For I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me, RESULTING IN THE OBEDIENCE of the GENTILES BY WORD AND DEED, …” (Romans 15:18, NASB)

 

So may God Help us to Reap the Fruit of His Commands unto Eternal Life (includes the Rewards etc.):

 

“…  36And he who reaps receives wages, and GATHERS FRUIT FOR ETERNAL LIFE, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together.  …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (John 4:36, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here are the #CharityDoctrine “Seed” referred to in the Word of God as “Obedience to the Gospel (“Good News”) of Christ” in an easier English Translation (so teaching this doctrine is ‘not legalism’ but “SEED” of the “WORD of GOD” – please look for words such as “seed” etc. in Verses below or in earlier translation which is more word to word carefully):

 

“… 6Remember this—a farmer who plants only a few seeds will get a small crop. But the one who plants generously will get a generous crop. 7You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. “For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.” 8And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others. 9As the Scriptures say, “They share freely and give generously to the poor. Their good deeds will be remembered forever.” 10For God is the one who provides seed for the farmer and then bread to eat. In the same way, he will provide and increase your resources and then produce a great harvest of generosity in you. 11Yes, you will be enriched in every way so that you can always be generous. And when we take your gifts to those who need them, they will thank God. 12So two good things will result from this ministry of giving—the needs of the believers in Jerusalem will be met, and they will joyfully express their thanks to God. 13As a result of your ministry, they will give glory to God. For your generosity to them and to all believers will prove that you are obedient to the Good News of Christ. …” (2 Corinthians 9:6 – 13, NLT)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

Heavenly Rewards – Thirty, Sixty and Hundredfold Mystery

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161695475822784

 

Popular Fallacy: Every Reward in Heaven is Equal for every believer.

 

Biblical Truth: Salvation is a Free Gift but there are three Harvests of the Gospel  based on our works be it Thirty-fold, Sixty-fold or Hundredfold accordingly. Example Christ Describes the Hundredfold as per Matthew 19:29. May God Help us to attain to the Works that we can.

 

The only  #Hundredfold” Description Verse found in Scripture by CHRIST HIMSELF doesn’t (does “NOT“) point to number of Converts, Church Attendance nor long prayers but one of these SIGNIFICANT LETTING GO of the dearest things to humans for HIS SAKE OR GOSPEL’S SAKE, Verses:

 

 

“… 27Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have LEFT ALL and FOLLOWED YOU. Therefore what shall we have?” 28So JESUS SAID TO THEM, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the REGENERATION, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And EVERYONE who has LEFT HOUSES or brothers or sisters or father or mother or WIFE or children or LANDS, for MY NAME’S SAKE, shall RECEIVE a HUNDREDFOLD, and INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE. 30But MANY who are FIRST will be LAST, and the LAST FIRST. …” (Matthew 19:27 – 30, NKJV)

 

Brief Comments:

 

1) Please notice the Word “HUNDREDFOLD” carefully and differently from the word “ETERNAL LIFE” (both mentioned by CHRIST DISTINCTLY in these Verses and so we ought to likewise for any Complete Preaching of the Gospel likewise) where the former is the “REWARD OF HEAVENLY INHERITANCE LEVEL” while the latter is the “FREE SALVATION GIFT” respectively.

 

2) It’s a Particular Type of #FollowChrist namely, as Apostle Peter declares here as “… LEFT ALL and FOLLOWED YOU …” Which merits this “HUNDREDFOLD” Reward Level. So since Matthew 13:8 Speaks of Thirty-fold Vs Sixty-fold Vs Hundredfold Harvests of the GOSPEL, we can infer proportionately that a lesser reward of Thirty-fold and Sixty-fold may thus refer to “NOT LEAVING ALL” type which the HUNDREDFOLD type merits to be fair to all. Let God Alone Measure by His Word.

 

“… 8But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a HUNDREDFOLD, SOME SIXTY, SOME THIRTY. 9He who has ears to hear, let him hear!” 10And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” 11He answered and said to them, “Because it has been GIVEN TO YOU to KNOW the [a]MYSTERIES OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, but to THEM IT HAS NOT BEEN GIVEN. …” (Matthew 13:8 – 11, NKJV)

 

Note: If these “SECRETS” (Koine Greek: Same as “Mystery“) of the “Kingdom of Heaven” in the Context of “Thirty-fold Vs Sixty-fold Vs Hundredfold Rewards” are plainly Written in the Gospels, then it’s no more a secret as anyone can read and know. That’s why it’s Written Mysteriously and we understand it better with First Christianity Quotes too (please see at the end).

 

3) These “HUNDREDFOLDRewards are “not” on earth now at all (not inclusive of this as some #ProsperityGospel fallacies err) because CHRIST CLEARLY Points to this to HAPPEN only at the RESURRECTION as signified by the phrase “… that in the REGENERATION …” Where these are to take place in the First Resurrection (Revelation 20:5) where the Blessed Apostles of the Lamb sit on TWELVE THRONES as Described specially for them only too because no one else can beat them in that.

 

4) “… LEFT LANDS and LEFT HOUSES …” for the Gospel Sake Signified by CHRIST in these Verses can mean leaving those things because one became a Christian and could not inherit those from unbelieving parents (e.g. chased out of the house) or also can mean to refer to the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle by sharing the residence with other believers in living together as the First Church did (e.g. Acts 2:44 – 46, Acts 4:32) to do Gospel Work or Commands.

 

5) “… LEFT WIFE …” for the Gospel Sake Signified by CHRIST in these Verses above can mean leaving marriage but more so not marrying at all to do Gospel Work or Commands. Logic: If leaving wife after marrying is meant by Christ here to have a “HUNDREDFOLD” Reward, how much more not marrying at all to do the same Gospel Work (all other factors held constant, e.g. Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7:7 – 9, 28, 32 – 33, 38, please see below later)

6) Other Bible Verses in support of these two highlighted points:

 

  1. i) “… LEFT LANDS and LEFT HOUSES …”

 

“… 44Now all who BELIEVED were together, and had ALL THINGS in COMMON, 45and SOLD their POSSESSIONS and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. 46So continuing DAILY with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and SIMPLICITY of HEART, 47praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. …” (Acts 2:44 – 47, NKJV)

 

Note: They did this #CharityDoctrineLifestyle living DAILY and not once a week meeting at Church or few times a week (lower way) as per the phrase “… 46So continuing DAILY … in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house …”.

 

“… 32Now the multitude of those who BELIEVED were of ONE HEART and ONE SOUL; neither did anyone say that ANY of the THINGS he POSSESSED was HIS OWN, but they had ALL THINGS in COMMON. … 34Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for ALL who were POSSESSORS of LANDS or HOUSES SOLD them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they DISTRIBUTED to each as ANYONE had NEED. 36And Joses, who was also named Barnabas by the apostles (which is translated Son of Encouragement), a Levite of the country of Cyprus, 37having land, sold it, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles’ feet. …” (Acts 4:32, 34 – 37, NKJV)

 

  1. ii) “… LEFT WIFE …”

 

“… For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves EUNUCHS FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN’S SAKE. He who is ABLE TO ACCEPT IT, LET HIM ACCEPT IT.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 19:12, NKJV)

Note: The phrase by CHRIST HIMSELF here namely ‘… He who is ABLE TO ACCEPT IT, LET HIM ACCEPT IT.” …’ in regards to ‘… EUNUCHS FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN’S SAKE …’ indicates that God’s Will here is a “Choice” which sounds similar to Apostle Paul’s Quote by the Inspiration of the Most Blessed Holy Spirit of God next as to why ‘… He WISHED ALL MEN were UNMARRIED …’ likewise to attain to this “HUNDREDFOLD” Level Rewards most likely.

Is that the Reason why Blessed Apostle St. Paul himself echoed that “… He WISHED ALL MEN were LIKE THAT? …” Verses (for if there was “no” difference in a Heavenly or Spiritual Perspective, he may not have wished it):

 

“…  7For I WISH THAT ALL MEN WERE EVEN as I MYSELF. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that. 8But I say to the UNMARRIED AND TO THE WIDOWS: IT IS GOOD FOR THEM IF THEY REMAIN EVEN AS I AM; 9but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. … 28 But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have TROUBLE IN THE FLESH, but I WOULD SPARE YOU. … 32But I want you to be without care. He who is UNMARRIED CARES FOR THE THINGS OF THE LORD—how he may PLEASE THE LORD. 33But HE WHO IS MARRIED CARES about the THINGS OF THE WORLD—how he may PLEASE HIS WIFE. … 38So then he who GIVES HER IN MARRIAGE DOES WELL, but he WHO DOES NOT GIVE HER IN MARRIAGE DOES BETTER. …” (1 Corinthians 7:7 – 9, 28, 32 – 33, 38, NKJV)

 

Written in the ‘Context of Final Salvation‘ and ‘God’s Righteousness to be Revealed’:

 

…  1Thus SAYS THE LORD:

 

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,

 

For MY SALVATION IS ABOUT TO COME,

 

And My RIGHTEOUSNESS TO BE REVEALED.

 

2Blessed is the man who does this,

 

And the son of man who lays hold on it;

 

Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,

 

And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

 

3Do not let the son of the foreigner

 

Who has joined himself to the Lord

 

Speak, saying,

 

“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;

 

NOR LET THE EUNUCH SAY,

 

“Here I am, a dry tree.”4For THUS SAYS THE LORD:

 

TO THE EUNUCHS who keep my sabbaths,

 

And CHOOSE WHAT PLEASES ME,

 

And hold fast My covenant,

 

5Even to them I WILL GIVE IN MY HOUSE

 

And WITHIN MY WALLS A PLACE AND A NAME

 

BETTER THAN THAT OF SONS AND DAUGHTERS;

 

I will give [a]them AN EVERLASTING NAME

 

That SHALL NOT BE CUT OFF. …” (Isaiah 56:1 – 5, NKJV)

 

Note: The Promises in these particular Set of Verses is “not” for every believer at that time even but only toward “EUNUCHS”.

 

The phrase “… I WILL GIVE IN MY HOUSE And WITHIN MY WALLS A PLACE …” = Seem to Point to a “special Level of Heavenly Inheritance” above the usual one given to other saved “… SONS AND DAUGHTERS; …”

 

The phrase “… I WILL GIVE IN MY HOUSE And WITHIN MY WALLS … And A NAME …” = Seem to Point to a “special Level of Title/Rank” above the usual one given to other saved “… SONS AND DAUGHTERS; …”

 

The phrase “… I will give [a]them AN EVERLASTING NAME That SHALL NOT BE CUT OFF. …” means their above than usual Reward and Name in His Kingdom than the usual “… Sons and daughters …” is “not” a temporary reward nor a temporaryNAME GIVEN BY GOD” but a permanent and “EVERLASTING” one.

 

Please also notice the first Verse where God Instructs NOT just Holiness but “JUSTICE” too in this phrase “… 1Thus SAYS THE LORD: “Keep justice, and do righteousness,  …”(Isaiah 56:1) which is the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle according to CHRIST’S OWN DEFINITION in Verses below since #ALMS = #CHARITY = #FREE #GIVING or #SHARING NOT from #ChurchMoney or #Donation only but from #WhatYouHave (#Personal Possessions too) likewise, Verses:

 

“… 39Then the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees make the OUTSIDE OF THE CUP and DISH CLEAN, but YOUR INWARD PART is full of [k]GREED and WICKEDNESS. 40FOOLISH ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also? 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. 42“But woe to you Pharisees! For YOU TITHE mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and PASS BY JUSTICE and the LOVE of GOD These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE. 43Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the [m]best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. 44Woe to you, [n]scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like graves which are not seen, and the men who walk over them are not aware of them.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 11:39 – 45, NKJV)

 

Comment: These Highlighted Phrases from the above “… GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; …  YOU TITHE mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and PASS BY JUSTICE …” = ALMS/#CharityDoctrineLifestyle Fulfills “JUSTICE” while faithfully paying TITHES DID NOT. No other religious act is mentioned nor reprimanded by Christ here for them to “do more” meaning this is ‘what is missing’, namely the #CharityDoctrine.

 

Focus Phrase here by Christ Himself:

 

“… GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. …” –  The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ

 

Note: #Alms (which Christ Refers to here) = only things which we #SHARE or #GIVE for #FREE not from other people’s donation only but FROM WHAT WE HAVE (as Christ Clearly Emphasizes this part as the Pharisees were good in donations with Church/Temple money in analogy but do NOT include their personal money/wealth thinking they are exempt being religious leaders).

 

These are not options based on your “personal calling or opinions” because Christ’s Phrase here is clear regarding these (including this #CharityDoctrine part) namely:

 

“… These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE.  …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ

 

So ANY TRUE CHURCH of CHRIST Ought to Teach and Do bothJustice and Righteousness” and “not righteousness only” as “DOCTRINE” in the CONTEXT of FINAL SALVATION (Isaiah 56:1 – 5). Can you see it as it is Written, please?

 

Recap: Which “Justice“? Not “rich man politics games under that name” but rather the ONLY JUSTICE GOD is Referring to in Scripture as I have pointed in many Verses in earlier pages is ONLY THAT WHICH BENEFITS the POOR and the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle lived, example Verse:

 

“… 15“Do you become a king because you are competing in cedar? Did your father not eat and drink And DO JUSTICE AND RIGHTEOUSNESS? Then it was well for him. 16“HE PLED THE CAUSE OF THE AFFLICTED and THE POOR, then it was well. IS THAT NOT WHAT IT MEANS TO KNOW ME?” DECLARES THE LORD. 17“But your eyes and your heart Are intent only upon your own dishonest gain, And on shedding innocent blood, And on practicing oppression and extortion.” … And YOU WILL SEEK ME AND FIND ME when YOU SEARCH FOR ME WITH ALL YOUR HEART. …” (Jeremiah 22:15 – 17, 29:13, NASB)

iii) Please read ‘carefully’ and see that GOD HIMSELF did “not” Say that “righteousness is enough to KNOW HIM” but rather POINTS to BOTH “… JUSTICE AND RIGHTEOUSNESS …” to KNOW HIM. So, are we really KEEN to KNOW GOD? then we must seek for both “Justice” and “Righteousness” in our “Doctrine and Lifestyle” as Revealed here directly by God Himself in Verses above “as it is Written“.

 

7) Example First Christianity Quotes Proving this ‘Same Meaning’

“… Now any one may object to this interpretation, and may give another which harmonizes with the rule of faith. For as the ark was to have rooms not only on the lower, but also on the upper storeys, which were called ” third storeys,” that there might be a habitable space on the third floor from the basement, some one may interpret these to mean the three graces commended by the apostle, — ^faith, hope, and charity. Or even more suitably they may be supposed to represent those THREE HARVESTS IN THE GOSPEL, THIRTYFOLD, SIXTYFOLD, AN HUNDREDFOLD, — CHASTE MARRIAGE DWELLING IN THE GROUND FLOOR, CHASTE WIDOWHOOD IN THE UPPER, AND CHASTE VIRGINITY IN THE TOP STOREY. Or any better interpretation may be given, so long as the reference to this city is maintained…” – Blessed St. Augustine of Hippo, Doctor of the Church, who influenced virtually all of subsequent Western philosophy and Catholic theology, as well as a significant amount of Protestant theology (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD, Book XV, ‘City of God’, Page 99)

Source: https://archive.org/stream/cityofgodvolumet009439mbp/cityofgodvolumet009439mbp_djvu.txt

 

“… For there are TWO WAYS IN LIFE, as touching these matters. The one the more moderate and ordinary, I mean MARRIAGE; THE OTHER ANGELIC AND UNSURPASSED, NAMELY VIRGINITY. Now if a man choose the way of the world, namely marriage, he is not indeed to blame; yet HE WILL NOT RECEIVE SUCH GREAT GIFTS AS THE OTHER. For he will receive, since he too BRINGS FORTH FRUIT, NAMELY THIRTYFOLD. But if a man embrace the holy and unearthly way, even though, as compared with the former, it be rugged and hard to accomplish, yet it has the more wonderful gifts: for IT GROWS THE PERFECT FRUIT, NAMELY AN HUNDREDFOLD…”  – Blessed St. Athanasius the Great, the Father of Orthodoxy, Patriarch of Alexandria and Champion of Trinity, Doctor of the Church and Confessor, Coptic Pope (c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD, Letter XLVIII.—Letter to Amun4583. Written before 354 AD via Philip Schaff, Pages 971 – 972)

Source:

http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/1819-1893,_Schaff._Philip,_3_Vol_04_Athanasius,_EN.pdf

Note: the quote above is by the “same Athanasius” used by God to Defend the Most Important Doctrine of Trinity against Arianism.

These are not some isolated quotes but what even other Church Fathers Taught likewise from independent Orthodox Traditions proving that this meaning (or Common Ground) is maintained, Example First Christianity Reference quote on this:

 

“… And brings forth some an hundredfold, &c. “We must observe,” says S. Jerome, “that like as in the bad ground there were three different sorts—namely, by the wayside, the rocky, and the thorny places—so in the good ground there is a threefold diversity. And in the one as well as in the other, it is not the substance which is changed, but the will; and so it is the heart of the unbelieving as well as of the believing which receives the seed.” Moreover, the greatest fruit of God’s Word, as it were the greatest fruit of seed is a hundredfold, as if from a single grain a harvest of a hundred grains were gathered, as was Isaac’s case (Gen. xxvi. 12). The medium fruit is called sixtyfold; the lowest thirtyfold. A definite number is put for an indefinite; otherwise He might have added, brings forth some fortyfold, some twenty fold, and so on. Whence, in opposition to Jovinian and Calvin, the inequality of merit and consequently of the reward, of good works in Heaven is rightly proved. So S. Chrysostom (Hom. 45), S. Augustine (de S. Virgin. c. 46), Nazianzen (Orat. 28), and others. For the Fathers, however Calvin may deride and exclaim, apply these words especially to diverse states. 1. S. Jerome, on this passage (lib. 1, contra Jovin), and S. Athanasius (Epist. ad Ammon.), and others assign the hundredfold fruit to virgins; the sixtyfold to widows; the thirtyfold to those who live in honest and holy wedlock. 2. S. Cyprian (l. de Hab. Virg.) and S. Augustine (l. 1, de quest. Evang. quest. 9, tom 4) assign the hundredfold to martyrs, the sixty to virgins, the thirtyfold to those who are married. Hear what S. Augustine says: “I assert that the hundredfold belongs to martyrs, on account of their holiness of life, or contempt of death; the sixty fold to virgins, on account of interior quiet, because they do not need to fight against fleshly habits—for rest is wont to be granted to soldiers who are past sixty years of age; the thirtyfold to the married, because thirty is the age of warriors—for those have a sharper conflict, that they may not be overcome of lust.”3. Euthymius and Theophylact assign the thirtyfold to beginners, the sixty to those who have made some progress, the hundredfold to the perfect. So also Nazianzen (Orat. 28.) When a man proceeds, saith he, from thirty to sixty, he finishes with a hundred, as Isaac did (Gen. xxvi.) And he sings the Psalms of Degrees, going from strength to strength, and placing the Ascensions in his heart (Ps. 84.)…”  – Cornelius Bible Commentary

 

Source:  http://www.corneliusbiblecommentary.faithweb.com/13matth.htm

 

 

 

 

 

Other Examples:

 

Despite the fact that neither Blessed St. Augustine nor Blessed St. Jerome were virgins, St. Jerome says this Bold Declaration in that as a Repentant non-Virgin, he stands a chance to attain even the highest HUNDREDFOLD rewards too, to quote:

 

“… My seed shall produce fruit a hundredfold – the reward of virginity is hundredfold; of widowhood, sixtyfold, and of married life, thirtyfold. “All cannot receive the Word of God but only they to whom it is given” (Mt 19:11). Let others be eunuchs of necessity, but I [am chaste] of my own will. … Let them sew robes who have previously lost the unsown robe…” ….” – Blessed St. Jerome of the Vulgate, Second Latin Doctor of the Church who did the First Official Translation of the Bible out of Its Original Languages into Latin, Priest, Confessor, Secretary to Pope Damasus I (c. 347 AD – c. 420 AD, ‘Quotes on Marriage & Viginity’)

 

Source:

https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/n093_Virginity.htm

 

How do I know Roman Catholics Orthodox have “not” tampered with these quotes? Please consider St. Epiphanius’ Writing below in this Topic and a quote against iconography which Protestants always quote in support of their points too:

 

Furthermore I do “not” think that the Roman Catholics or Orthodox persons tampered with St. Epiphanius’ writings because they also preserved say this quote next which actually supports the Protestant position of “not” praying to any man “nor” to any man-made “iconography even if it’s an idol or image of Christ”, to quote:

 

“… 9. Moreover, I have heard that certain persons have this grievance against me: When I accompanied you to the holy place called Bethel, there to join you in celebrating the Collect, after the use of the Church, I came to a villa called Anablatha and, as I was passing, saw a lamp burning there. Asking what place it was, and learning it to be a church, I went in to pray, and found there a curtain hanging on the doors of the SAID CHURCH, dyed and embroidered. IT BORE AN IMAGE EITHER OF CHRIST OR OF ONE OF THE SAINTS; I do not rightly remember whose the image was. Seeing this, and being loth that AN IMAGE OF A MAN SHOULD BE HUNG UP IN CHRIST’S CHURCH CONTRARY to the TEACHING OF THE SCRIPTURES, I TORE IT ASUNDER AND ADVISED the custodians of the place to use it as a WINDING SHEET FOR SOME POOR PERSON. They, however, murmured, and said that if I made up my mind to tear it, it was only fair that I should give them another curtain in its place. As soon as I heard this, I promised that I would give one, and said that I would send it at once. …” – Blessed St. Epiphanius, Bishop of Salamis and the ‘Hammer of Heretics’, (c. 310 AD – c. 403 AD, Letter LI in Jerome’s letters gives Jerome’s Latin translation, made at Epiphanius’ request, of his letter, originally in Greek from c. 394, “From Epiphanius, Bishop of Salamis, in Cyprus, to John, Bishop of Jerusalem”)

 

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphanius_of_Salamis

 

So if Protestants can easily accept the quote above by St. Epiphanius as truth, perhaps they should likewise agree to his other preserved quotes of his likewise too such as the one before this and the next one too regarding “Continence Doctrine”; So, Can a Christian who was a non-Virgin repent and be part of this Continence Contest of Faith?

Yes. In such cases, his ‘continence’ is called his ‘second dignity’ but he has to ‘labor in penance’ in some way first, to quote:

 

“… (8.) And as one who has fallen from virginity has continence for a second dignity, so he who has fallen into major sin after baptism has < reform > for a second healingnot as virtuous as the first, but he has the second healing he has received, one not thrust out from life. God’s word, then, does not deny the reward of those who labor in penance…” – Blessed St. Epiphanius, Bishop of Salamis and the ‘Hammer of Heretics’, (c. 310 AD – c. 403 AD, ‘Cathari’, “Panarion”, Points 2.6 – 2.8, Pages 105 – 106)

 

Source:

https://archive.org/stream/EpiphaniusPanarionBksIIIII1/Epiphanius%20-%20_Panarion_%20-%20Bks%20II%20%26%20III%20-%201_djvu.txt

 

 

 

Note: ” labor in penance” = punishment inflicted as an outward expression of repentance for wrongdoing. Please note that both St. Jerome of the Vulgate and St. Augustine of Hippo themselves were not virgins having lost it in their sinful lives prior and thus fit into this category too.

 

and

“… If one drops out of the race it is better to take a lawful wife openly, and in place of virginity do penance for a long time, and be readmitted to the church as one who has strayed and wept, and is in need of reinstatement — and not be wounded every day by the secret darts of wickedness which the devil launches at him. …” – Blessed St. Epiphanius, Bishop of Salamis and the ‘Hammer of Heretics’, (c. 310 AD – c. 403 AD, ‘Apostolics’, “Panarion”, Points 7.6, Page 122)

 

Source:

https://archive.org/stream/EpiphaniusPanarionBksIIIII1/Epiphanius%20-%20_Panarion_%20-%20Bks%20II%20%26%20III%20-%201_djvu.txt

 

Please also notice carefully in CHRIST’S OWN MOST BLESSED WORDS that the Heavenly Ranking for CHRISTIANS in regards to rewards in this context (Matthew 19:27 – 30) is so important for ANY TRUE CHURCH OF CHRIST because He PROPHESIES here that this is how “… 30But MANY who are FIRST will be LAST, and the LAST FIRST. …”  . Please notice that “MANY” (referring to Christians) will be last or first according to whether they live out this #Doctrinal aspect as “it is Written”.

 

Since this is CHRIST’S ONLY “HUNDREDFOLD” Reward command #SolaScriptura in the entire Bible, the Principle in Verse below certainly applies too:

 

“… 19Whoever therefore BREAKS one of the least of THESE COMMANDMENTS, and teaches men so, shall be called LEAST in the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN; but whoever DOES AND TEACHES THEM, he shall be called GREAT in the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:19, NKJV)

 

Last but not least, Perhaps the absolute Free Grace applies to those “Saved by Fire” with “no” rewards or lesser rewards

 

 

“… 14If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, HE WILL RECEIVE A REWARD. 15If anyone’s WORK IS BURNED, HE WILL SUFFER LOSS; but HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, YET SO AS THROUGH FIRE.  …” (1 Corinthians 3:14 – 15, NKJV)

 

This “Saved by Fire” case may account for “being Saved OUTSIDE Heaven” but on the FINAL New Earth as these Verses may point to such a “possibility” (no one knows for sure but Let God Decide One Day), Verses:

 

“… Come, I will show you the [g]BRIDE, the LAMB’S WIFE.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED ME THE [H]GREAT CITY, the [I]HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN from God,  … 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE. …” (Revelation 21:9 – 10, 24 – 27, NKJV)

 

Comment: These Verses seem to indicate that some may be saved on the final NEW EARTH only but among them only those whose name’s are WRITTEN in the LAMB’S BOOK of LIFE may ENTER HEAVEN to VISIT HIS BRIDE (or “CHURCH/CHRISTIANS” there) implying the “possibility” that these “saved on Judgment Day ones” may “not” be “His Bride” as these are ‘distinctly mentioned and compared in these Verses’. I can’t say for sure and being honest I let you know what I see even as a “possibility” but I whatever God Decides One Day, I accept it.

 

“… And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. …” – apostle John (Revelation 22:17, NKJV)

 

Where possibly:

 

The Spirit = God

 

The Bride = Christians

 

who thirsts” = Perhaps “those saved by Fire” hence thirsty? (1 Corinthians 3:15 earlier)

 

Biblical Logic: The life we live to do His “Written” COMMANDS will determine how much we VALUE CHRIST’S FREE GIFT OF SALVATION and in Return manifests as the HEAVENLY REWARD RECEIVED:

 

“… DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD IS NOT MOCKED; for whatever a MAN SOWS, THAT HE WILL ALSO REAP. …” (Galatians 6:7, NKJV)

 

How is God Fair to all Christians even?

 

“Whatever you do” affects one’s personal Reward Inheritance Level in the Kingdom.

 

Yes, “Whatever you do” = “any act” which “benefits others” or of “holiness” can merit a reward of inheritance in His Kingdom and “not” just Church activities even if you work as a “servant” as these Verses Reveal Clearly below in Context:

 

“… 22Bondservants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in sincerity of heart, fearing God. 23And WHATEVER YOU DO, DO IT HEARTILY, AS TO THE LORD AND NOT TO MEN, 24knowing that FROM THE LORD YOU WILL RECEIVE THE REWARD OF THE INHERITANCE; for[a] YOU SERVE THE LORD CHRIST. 25But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is NO PARTIALITY. …” (Colossians 3:22 – 25, NKJV)

 

 

Comment: so you are “not” at any disadvantage if you work a “secular job” (as even Blessed Apostle St. Paul who wrote the Verse above did) instead of ‘full time ministry even’ as God has “… NO PARTIALITY. …”  (please notice this phrase in last line above) even in this context of “… YOU WILL RECEIVE THE REWARD OF THE INHERITANCE …” even if you work the secular job as a servant/slave as these Verses Describe clearly in “Context” proving that Biblical Good can never be defeated (from “Heaven’s Perspective” as it only increases your heavenly inheritance whenever the more discriminated or harder in relative measure you have to do that work”… whatever you do …”).

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

Possibilities of Doctrine – Why Read Church Fathers?

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161690901372784

 

Example: To possibly learn the “Secret” (Greek: same word as “Mystery” too) of the “Kingdom of Heaven” as CHRIST HIMSELF Reveals here:

 

“…  “Because it has been given to you to KNOW THE MYSTERIES OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, but TO THEM IT HAS NOT BEEN GIVEN. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 13:11, NKJV)

 

Details:

 

0) Common Fallacy: If it’s important, then it will definitely be in the Bible and so we have no need to look into these First Christianity Writings as God Would have preserved it within the 66 Books.

 

Example explanation: In verses below, we see that an “Epistle” (or “Letter” of Blessed Apostle St. Paul) being “Commanded” in these “Bible Verses” to be “Read” in the “Colossian Church” and in turn the “Epistle to the Church at Laodicea” to be read in return in this Church. Verses:

 

“… Now when THIS EPISTLE IS READ AMONG YOU, see that IT IS READ ALSO in the CHURCH OF THE LAODICEANS, and that YOU LIKEWISE READ THE EPISTLE FROM LAODICEA. …” (Colossians 4:16, NKJV)

 

The PROBLEM is that this “Epistle to the Laodicean Church by Apostle St. Paul” has been “lost”. So why is “God Commanding in Bible Verses” above that such a “reading for Doctrine” to take place but in the end He DID NOT PRESERVE this MYSTERIOUS LAODICEAN EPISTLE which is LOST IN TIME? So the typical #SolaScriptura argument that if it is important, it must be preserved in the 66 Books is clearly a “false” position based on this Verse alone as we see that a “Command to Read the LAODICEAN EPISTLE exists” though this Epistle eventually will be lost in Church History.

 

In short, this “Mysteriousdisappearance of an Epistle containing “equivalent Inspired Scripture Verses” can actually be “lost” even from Church History as God has Willed it such and so it shows that God Doesn’t always preserve every Word which ought to be in the Bible and only allows it to be preserved or Revealed according to “whom He Wills to Reveal it to” as this Verse proves clearly as “it is Written”.

 

Word of Caution: However, personally I do not subscribe to prayers to Virgin Mary tradition (because the oldest writing of it is by an anonymous author who is not even a church father and late, 3rd century where knowing this comes as a shock to most Catholics/Orthodox even) while in comparison any tradition or “Possibility” of “Doctrine” which we consider, it’s certainly from “Church Fathers” and more so preferring those of the “Direct Disciples of the Apostles’ type or their immediate successors“. Also, we do not quote heretics but only those of the Church Fathers type only as the Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord itself lists many of them as true Christians according to their opinion too.

 

Since no one knows for sure how true some quotes are or even how to interpret it correctly, we consider them as “possibilities” of Doctrine only and whatever God Reveals One Day, we accept it.

 

 

1) Not everything is Written in the Bible

 

So, “not” everything is Written in the Bible so that ‘not everyone’ can know these “Secrets/Mysteries” Which Christ Speaks in Matthew 13:11.

 

Simple example proof (ESCHASTHALOGY Context): the direct disciples of the Apostles can only be quoted to believe in Millennialism or Chiliasm Doctrine as scholars call it today. The other theological positions are held by some Church Fathers but “not” the “Direct Disciples of the Apostles type” (If anyone says otherwise, please ask them to prove it with quotes and source as well).

 

We know that these quotes are most likely true because they are preserved by the various Catholic and Orthodox Traditions to be the same from among these surviving Chiliasm Church Fathers’ Surviving Copies of Writings which both the Roman Catholics and Orthodox “do NOT BELIEVE anymore” (especially due to Origen, St. Clement of Alexandria and St. Augustine of Hippo following their eschasthalogy instead) which for example talks about the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ happening now (for more than 1000 years because it’s just a figure of speech based on Revelation 20) which we do “not” subscribe to such symbolism but point to a literal reign only which is symbolised after the First Resurrection Bodily (Revelation 20:4 – 6) after the Second Coming of Christ (Revelation 19) where this Reign includes even the Bodily Resurrection of those who never submitted to the Last Antichrist even Dying for Christ as Revelation 20:4 – 6 specifies clearly but those who oppose it take it symbolically to mean something else.

 

 

2) Church Fathers

 

That’s why we look at Church Fathers’ Writings too because it could contain some Secrets which Christ may have shared to the Disciples which in turn is Found in these. We do not quote heretics or non-Church Fathers to avoid any false teachings.

 

Example: the Mysterious “Agrapha” Quotes as well where “Agrapha” signifies the “Quotes attributed to CHRIST but not Written in the Bible“.

 

Even in the Bible, we find this interesting Quote by Christ regarding the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle which is NOT found in any “Gospels” but rather by Apostle St. Paul who never walked with Christ literally on earth even:

 

“… I have shown you in every way, by LABORING like this, that you must SUPPORT THE WEAK. And REMEMBER THE WORDS OF THE LORD JESUS, that He said, ‘It is MORE BLESSED TO GIVE THAN TO RECEIVE.’ ” …” (Acts 20:35, NKJV)

 

Comment: These Words are so important but yet not recorded in the Gospels.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) Example Quotes

 

  1. i) Chiliasm Doctrine

“… Millennialism was taught by various earlier writers such as Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Commodian, Lactantius, Methodius, and Apollinaris of Laodicea in a form now called premillennialism.[9] According to religious scholar Rev. Dr. Francis Nigel Lee,[10] “Justin’s ‘Occasional Chiliasm’ sui generis which was strongly anti-pretribulationistic was followed possibly by Pothinus in A.D. 175 and more probably (around 185) by Irenaeus”. … Melito of Sardis is frequently listed as a second century proponent of premillennialism.[12] The support usually given for the supposition is that “Jerome [Comm. on Ezek. 36] and Gennadius [De Dogm. Eccl., Ch. 52] both affirm that he was a decided millenarian.”[13] In the early third century, Hippolytus of Rome … Around 220, there were some similar influences on Tertullian, although only with very important and extremely optimistic (if not perhaps even postmillennial) modifications and implications. On the other hand, “Christian Chiliastic” ideas were indeed advocated in 240 by Commodian; in 250 by the Egyptian Bishop Nepos in his Refutation of Allegorists; in 260 by the almost unknown Coracion; and in 310 by Lactantius. Into the late fourth century, Bishop Ambrose of Milan had millennial leanings (Ambrose of Milan. Book II. On the Belief in the Resurrection, verse 108). Lactantius is the last great literary defender of chiliasm in the early Christian church. …”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennialism

 

“… But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare. For Isaiah spake thus concerning this space of a thousand years: ‘For there shall be the new heaven and the new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, or come into their heart; but they shall find joy and gladness in it, which things I create’…For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject [2 Peter 3:8, Psalm 90:4]. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, THAT THOSE WHO BELIEVED IN OUR CHRIST would dwell a THOUSAND YEARS in Jerusalem [Revelation 20:4 – 10]; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place [Revelation 20:11 – 15]. Just as our Lord also said, ‘They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection. [Luke 20:35 – 36] …” –  Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, CHAPTER LXXXI)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

False Teachings can lead to Hell as some Christians Propose which is true but as long as Holiness + Faith + Good Works is there, getting wrong on Eschatology doesn’t affect salvation at all. Here’s an example authoritative First Christianity Quote:

 

 

“… I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion, and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise. …”  –  Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ  (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, Chapter 110)

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennialism

 

I repeat: The Roman Catholics/Orthodox did NOT change these First Christianity Chiliasm quotes because they have denounced it officially too but preserved these quotes intact (do you know that the DIRECT DISCIPLES of the APOSTLES can ONLY be QUOTED to BELIEVE in this CHILIASM in the surviving writings? NO OTHER “eschatological” POSITION can be proven in them. If anyone claims otherwise, please ask them for the quote and source. The others quote ‘Church Fathers’ but NOT these direct disciples type of Church Fathers*)

 

“… As the presbyters say, then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour will be seen, according as they shall be worthy who see Him. But that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold; for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second class will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the city; and that on this account the Lord said, “In my Father’s house are many mansions:” …” – Blessed St. Papias, Bishop of Hierapolis, an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of the Blessed St. John the Apostle (c. 60 AD – c. 163 AD)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/papias.html

 

 

 

St. Irenaeous of Lyons clearly affirms that this Position is Taught by the ‘Prebysters’ whom he refers below as the DIRECT DISCIPLES of the APOSTLES ONLY:

 

“… And as the presbyters* say, Then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour shall be seen according as they who see Him shall be worthy. [They say, moreover], that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundred-fold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold [Matthew 13:1 – 8, Matthew 13:18 – 23]: for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second will dwell in paradise, the last will inhabit the city; and that was on this account the Lord declared, “In My Father’s house are many mansions.” For all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling-place; even as His Word says, that a share is allotted to all by the Father, according as each person is or shall be worthy. And this is the couch on which the guests shall recline, having been invited to the wedding. The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, affirm that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved, and that they advance through steps of this nature… For in the TIMES of the KINGDOM, the righteous man who is upon the earth shall then forget to die. … John, therefore, did distinctly foresee the FIRST “RESURRECTION of the JUST,” [Revelation 20:4 – 6, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18, Luke 14:14] and the inheritance in the kingdom of the earth; and what the prophets have prophesied concerning it harmonize [with his vision, e.g. Isaiah 65:20 – 23, Isaiah 11, Revelation 20:7 – 10]. For the Lord also taught these things, when He promised that He would have the mixed cup new with His disciples in the kingdom. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter Chapter XXXVI, Points 1 – 2, 3-partial)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

Roman Catholic “Chiliasm” Rejection example Quote:

“… One popular Catholic apologetic resource states, “As far as the millennium goes, we [Catholics] tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists… . In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism ‘cannot safely be taught,’ though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.”1 On the other hand, one writer commenting on the history of millennial thought notes, “Following Augustine, the Church had long believed that the reign of the saints foretold by Revelation was already in operation through its own good offices, and shown little enthusiasm for the idea that Christ would return imminently to set up an earthly kingdom: indeed, the Council of Ephesus declared such a belief heretical in 431 …”

Source:

https://bible.org/article/phantom-heresy-did-council-ephesus-431-condemn-chiliasm

  1. ii) Agrapha Quotes and the Thirtyfold, Sixtyfold and Hundredfold type of Quotes

Example First Christianity Quotes

“… Now any one may object to this interpretation, and may give another which harmonizes with the rule of faith. For as the ark was to have rooms not only on the lower, but also on the upper storeys, which were called ” third storeys,” that there might be a habitable space on the third floor from the basement, some one may interpret these to mean the three graces commended by the apostle, — ^faith, hope, and charity. Or even more suitably they may be supposed to represent those THREE HARVESTS IN THE GOSPEL, THIRTYFOLD, SIXTYFOLD, AN HUNDREDFOLD, — CHASTE MARRIAGE DWELLING IN THE GROUND FLOOR, CHASTE WIDOWHOOD IN THE UPPER, AND CHASTE VIRGINITY IN THE TOP STOREY. Or any better interpretation may be given, so long as the reference to this city is maintained…” – Blessed St. Augustine of Hippo, Doctor of the Church, who influenced virtually all of subsequent Western philosophy and Catholic theology, as well as a significant amount of Protestant theology (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD, Book XV, ‘City of God’, Page 99)

Source: https://archive.org/stream/cityofgodvolumet009439mbp/cityofgodvolumet009439mbp_djvu.txt

 

Or

 

“… For there are TWO WAYS IN LIFE, as touching these matters. The one the more moderate and ordinary, I mean MARRIAGE; THE OTHER ANGELIC AND UNSURPASSED, NAMELY VIRGINITY. Now if a man choose the way of the world, namely marriage, he is not indeed to blame; yet HE WILL NOT RECEIVE SUCH GREAT GIFTS AS THE OTHER. For he will receive, since he too BRINGS FORTH FRUIT, NAMELY THIRTYFOLD. But if a man embrace the holy and unearthly way, even though, as compared with the former, it be rugged and hard to accomplish, yet it has the more wonderful gifts: for IT GROWS THE PERFECT FRUIT, NAMELY AN HUNDREDFOLD…”  – Blessed St. Athanasius the Great, the Father of Orthodoxy, Patriarch of Alexandria and Champion of Trinity, Doctor of the Church and Confessor, Coptic Pope (c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD, Letter XLVIII.—Letter to Amun4583. Written before 354 AD via Philip Schaff, Pages 971 – 972)

Source:

http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/1819-1893,_Schaff._Philip,_3_Vol_04_Athanasius,_EN.pdf

 

Note: the quote above is by the “same Athanasius” used by God to Defend the Most Important Doctrine of Trinity against Arianism.

Or

 

“… And again THE LORD SAYS: Let the one who has married not be cast out, and let the one who HAS NOT MARRIED NOT MARRY. He who has confessed that he will NOT MARRY ACCORDING to HIS DECISION OF EUNUCHHOOD, LET HIM REMAIN UNMARRIED….” – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria, Head of the Cathecathical School At Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD, Miscellanies 3.15)

Source for the “Agrapha ” Quote above (Agrapha Quote refers to ‘not’ in Bible Quote but attributed to Christ especially via Church Fathers):

https://web.archive.org/web/20080215124232/http://www.textexcavation.com/agrapha.html

 

 

Bible Verses in support of this:

 

Written in the ‘Context of Final Salvation‘ and ‘God’s Righteousness to be Revealed’):

 

“…  1Thus SAYS THE LORD:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,

For MY SALVATION IS ABOUT TO COME,

And My RIGHTEOUSNESS TO BE REVEALED.

2Blessed is the man who does this,

And the son of man who lays hold on it;

Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,

And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

3Do not let the son of the foreigner

Who has joined himself to the Lord

Speak, saying,

“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;

NOR LET THE EUNUCH SAY,

“Here I am, a dry tree.”4For THUS SAYS THE LORD:

“TO THE EUNUCHS who keep my sabbaths,

And CHOOSE WHAT PLEASES ME,

And hold fast My covenant,

5Even to them I WILL GIVE IN MY HOUSE

And WITHIN MY WALLS A PLACE AND A NAME

BETTER THAN THAT OF SONS AND DAUGHTERS;

I will give [a]them AN EVERLASTING NAME

That SHALL NOT BE CUT OFF. …” (Isaiah 56:4 – 5, NKJV)

 

Comments:

 

0) Context: The Promises in these particular Set of Verses is “not” for every believer at that time even but only toward “EUNUCHS” (i.e. those who have Renounced Marriage for God in some way to Serve Him or some via Castrations) as God Himself Sets this Context in the Opening Lines here as “… 4For thus says the Lord: TO THE EUNUCHS  …”

 

  1. The phrase “… BETTER THAN THAT OF SONS AND DAUGHTERS; …” seems to point to a really great inheritance in the Kingdom beyond the usual “sons and daughters of God (implied)”.

 

  1. The phrase “… I WILL GIVE IN MY HOUSE And WITHIN MY WALLS A PLACE …” = Seem to Point to a “special Level of Heavenly Inheritance” above the usual one given to other saved “… SONS AND DAUGHTERS; …”

 

  1. The phrase “… I WILL GIVE IN MY HOUSE And WITHIN MY WALLS … And A NAME …” = Seem to Point to a “special Level of Title/Rank” above the usual one given to other saved “… SONS AND DAUGHTERS; …”
  2. The phrase “… I will give [a]them AN EVERLASTING NAME That SHALL NOT BE CUT OFF. …” means their above than usual Reward and Name in His Kingdom than the usual “… Sons and daughters …” is “not” a temporary reward nor a temporary “NAME GIVEN BY GOD” but a permanent and “EVERLASTING” one.

 

  1. These Hidden Mysteries may have been known in the “Priestly” Context too in the Old Covenant itself even before these Verses in Isaiah were Written as per Verses below “in Principle” (or even “allegorically“):

 

“… And the PRIEST ANSWERED David and said, “There is NO COMMON BREAD on hand; but there is HOLY BREAD, if the young men have AT LEAST KEPT THEMSELVES FROM WOMEN.” …” (1 Samuel 21:4, NKJV)

 

Does it apply in the New Covenant?

 

This applied in the “Old Covenant” and similarly may be echoed in Principle in the New Covenant too (“not” according to the abolished parts of course but in obedience to the New Testament Verses) as Christ Himself may have Pointed to such a case in Verses below:

 

“… For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves EUNUCHS FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN’S SAKE. He who is ABLE TO ACCEPT IT, LET HIM ACCEPT IT.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 19:12, NKJV)

 

Is that the Reason why Blessed Apostle St. Paul himself echoed that “… He WISHED ALL MEN were LIKE THAT? …” Verses (for if there was “no” difference in a Heavenly or Spiritual Perspective, he may not have wished it):

 

“…  7For I WISH THAT ALL MEN WERE EVEN as I MYSELF. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that. 8But I say to the UNMARRIED AND TO THE WIDOWS: IT IS GOOD FOR THEM IF THEY REMAIN EVEN AS I AM; 9but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. … 28 But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have TROUBLE IN THE FLESH, but I WOULD SPARE YOU. … 32But I want you to be without care. He who is UNMARRIED CARES FOR THE THINGS OF THE LORD—how he may PLEASE THE LORD. 33But HE WHO IS MARRIED CARES about the THINGS OF THE WORLD—how he may PLEASE HIS WIFE. … 38So then he who GIVES HER IN MARRIAGE DOES WELL, but he WHO DOES NOT GIVE HER IN MARRIAGE DOES BETTER. …” (1 Corinthians 7:7 – 9, 28, 32 – 33, 38, NKJV)

 

The “Firstfruits” of Salvation (Holiest lot) itself belongs to a particular 144000 “unmarried Jewish Virgin Men” likewise proving this Context for such “Eunuchs” too:

 

 

“… 1Then I looked, and behold, [a]a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and WITH HIM ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-FOUR THOUSAND, [b]having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. … . 3They SANG AS IT WERE A NEW SONG before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and NO ONE COULD LEARN THAT SONG except the HUNDRED AND FORTY-FOUR THOUSAND who were redeemed from the earth. 4These are the ones WHO WERE NOT DEFILED WITH WOMEN, FOR THEY ARE VIRGINS. These are the ones WHO FOLLOW THE LAMB WHEREVER HE GOES. These were [c]redeemed from among men, being FIRSTFRUITS to God and to the Lamb …” (Revelation 14:1, 3 – 4, NKJV)

 

 

The “Septuagint” reads the “same” meaning this Scripture is 100% True and Preserved

 

 

“… 4Thus SAITH THE LORD TO THE EUNUCHS, as many as shall keep my sabbaths, and CHOOSE THE THINGS WHICH I TAKE PLEASURE IN, and take hold of my covenant; 5I will GIVE TO THEM IN MY HOUSE and WITHIN MY WALLS AN HONOURABLE PLACE, BETTER THAN SONS AND DAUGHTERS: I will give them AN EVERLASTING NAME, and IT SHALL NOT FAIL. …” (Isaiah 56:4 – 5, Brenton Septuagint Translation)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/isaiah/56.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

iii) Non-Elect Salvation “Possibility” for a Second Badge of Righteous after First Resurrection of Christians only followed by the 1000 Years Millennial Reign of Christ via Chiliasm Father’s Quotes

 

  1. i) St. Irenaeous of Lyons affirmed St. Justin Martyr as a faithful witness to the same Doctrine

 

“… In his book against Marcion, JUSTIN DOES WELL SAY: “I would not have believed the Lord Himself, if He had announced any other than He who is our framer, maker, and nourisher. But because the only-begotten Son came to us from the one God, who both made this world and formed us, and contains and administers all things, summing up His own handiwork in Himself, my faith towards Him is steadfast, and my love to the Father immoveable, God bestowing both upon us.” …” …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter VI, Point 2)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html

 

How reliable is St. Justin Martyr? Example other First Christianity quote:

 

” … And Justin of Neapolis, a man who was not far separated from the apostles either in age or excellence, says that that which is mortal is inherited, but that which is immortal inherits; and that the flesh indeed dies, but the kingdom of heaven lives. …” — From METHODIUS On the Resurrection, in Photius. (Fragment V, St. Justin Martyr’s Lost Writings)

Source:  http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-fragments.html

Note: Justin of Neapolis = Blessed St. Justin Martyr

 

What does this have to do with the discussion here?

 

I will show with a quote by St. Justin Martyr himself (who believes the same ‘Chiliasm’ Doctrine as St. Irenaeous) that “ALL CHRISTIANS/ALL the ELECT” are Saved in the Second Coming of Christ and Reign together in the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ next.

 

 

 

  1. ii) St. Justin Martyr’s Quote on All Christians/Elect are Saved 1000 years Before Judgment Day and reign as “Immortals” alongside these mortals of the Millennial Reign

 

“… “… But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare. For Isaiah spake thus concerning this space of a thousand years: ‘For there shall be the new heaven and the new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, or come into their heart; but they shall find joy and gladness in it, which things I create’…For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject [2 Peter 3:8, Psalm 90:4]. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, THAT THOSE WHO BELIEVED IN OUR CHRIST [1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18, Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32 ] would dwell a THOUSAND YEARS in Jerusalem [Revelation 20:4 – 10]; and that thereafter the GENERAL, and in short, the ETERNAL RESURRECTION and JUDGMENT of ALL MEN would LIKEWISE TAKE PLACE [Revelation 20:11 – 15, Matthew 25:31 – 46]. Just as our Lord also said, ‘They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection. [Luke 20:35 – 36] …” –  Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, CHAPTER LXXXI)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

 

[Emphasis Mine throughout for clarity]

 

Comments:

 

  1. Christians as Immortals here: “… Just as our Lord also said, ‘They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection. [Luke 20:35 – 36] …”

 

  1. All Christians Saved in the First Resurrection “… who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, THAT THOSE WHO BELIEVED IN OUR CHRIST [1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18, Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32 ] would dwell a THOUSAND YEARS in Jerusalem [Revelation 20:4 – 10];

 

iii. St. Justin does “not” say that after this 1000 years in the “General Resurrection” or “Second Resurrection” that ‘all are tossed into the Lake of Fire’ as ‘some Christians today believe’ —> “…and that thereafter the GENERAL, and in short, the ETERNAL RESURRECTION and JUDGMENT of ALL MEN would LIKEWISE TAKE PLACE [Revelation 20:11 – 15, Matthew 25:31 – 46].  …”

 

  1. The problem is St. Justin’s quote above regarding this Final Judgment of All men is neither pointing to someone saved nor all condemned. We are “not sure as his other quotes doesn’t discuss this aspect particularly. So a solution might be to go to St. Irenaeous’ quote to see whether he has quoted this “Judgment Day” Context in Detail next.

 

Before that, please also notice that just like St. Justin calls Christians as equal to “Angels” (based on Luke 20:34 – 36) it can  also mean that since Christ only becomes “One Flesh” with “All Christians” (Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32) so “only Christians/the Elect” have “Celestial/Heavenly Glory Resurrected Bodies” (“Heavenly Man” in 1 Corinthians 15:49 too)  vs the “General Resurrection Bodies may be Terrestrial only” where some may be “saved” as per the word “Terrestrial Glory” is used on ‘some’ of these in 1 Corinthians 15:39 – 42.

 

To strengthen this claim, did St. Irenaeous of Lyons point to the usage of Matthew 25:31 – 46 to refer to this “Second Resurrection Timeline” for a “Possible Second Badge of Righteous to be Saved” on ‘Judgment Day’ only? It’s “Possible” based his own quote below:

 

iii) St. Irenaeous’ Judgment Day Quote that it involves the “WHOLE HUMAN RACE

 

“… the same Lord has pointed out that the WHOLE HUMAN RACE SHALL BE DIVIDED AT JUDGMENT, ” AS A SHEPHERD DIVIDETH THE SHEEP FROM THE GOATS,” [Matthew 25:32] and that to some He will say, “Come, ye blessed of My Father, receive the kingdom which has been prepared for you,” [Matthew 25:34] but to others, “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, which My Father has prepared for the devil and his angels,” [Matthew 25:41] one and the same Father is manifestly declared [in this passage], “making peace and creating evil things,” preparing fit things for both; …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book IV, Chapter XL, Points 2-partial)

Source:  http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html

 

Comments:

 

  1. a) Since Judgment Day involves the whole human race, a possibility was discussed based on this and that Revelation 20:11 – 15 likewise must mention the whole human race in some way in link below (which may be found in Pages 567 – 568 in this book too):

 

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161409652112784

 

  1. b) Since St. Irenaeous’ quote above points to Matthew 25:31 – 46 as referring to the “Judgment Day” Context, the “Surprised Sheep of the Nations” who are only “saved” on Judgment Day (may be highlighted in Matthew 25:31 – 46) based on the ‘Charity Doctrine’ of what one did ‘… When I was Hungry, Thirsty, Naked, Homeless …’ and thus proves that a “Second badge of Righteous” being Saved on this Judgment Day as a “non-Elect salvation clearly” by His Mercy as possible.

 

  1. c) St. Irenaeous quoting Matthew 25:31 – 46 as referring to “Judgment Day Context” also makes it “possible” that a badge of ‘Righteous and Wicked rise Simultaneously’ pointing to some non-Christians being saved vs some non-Christians being condemned during this “Second Resurrection” Timeline.

 

Based  on this possibility, the following Verses may be “literal” and pointing to the “Second Resurrection”

 

“… 28Do not marvel at this; for the HOUR IS COMING in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. …” (John 5:28 – 29, NKJV)

 

“… And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. …”(Daniel 12:2, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

I have discussed this “Possibility” in detail at the end of this Book but please allow me to elaborate one particular point “further” as follows here with Verse below:

 

“… the HOUR IS COMING, and NOW IS, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear WILL LIVE. …” (John 5:25, NKJV)

 

Please notice carefully that Christ Uses two Different phrases here namely:

 

  1. In John 5:25, “… the HOUR IS COMING, and NOW IS, …” (“Two Different Hours” pointed to here)

 

  1. In John 5:28, “… 28Do not marvel at this; for the HOUR IS COMING …” (only “one hour” pointed to here)

 

Now, since the “Context” here is “Resurrection” which only happens in the “LAST DAY” referring to the 7th Day (Sabbath) or this 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ Timeline (as discussed in Pages 328 onward in this Book) based on Verses below too as both the First and Second Resurrections must happen within this Last Day being separated by 1000 years as Revelation 20:5 clearly points too, Verses:

 

“… 35And JESUS said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall NEVER THIRST. 36But I said to you that YOU HAVE SEEN ME and YET DO NOT BELIEVE. 37All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39This is the WILL OF THE FATHER who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should RAISE IT UP at the LAST DAY. 40And this is THE WILL OF HIM who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES THE SON AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE; and I will RAISE HIM UP at the LAST DAY.” …” (John 6:35 – 40, NKJV)

 

“… But THE REST OF THE DEAD DID NOT LIVE AGAIN until the THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED. This is the first resurrection. …” (Revelation 20:5, NKJV)

 

 

 

Why does it matter?  Combining these Verses, it may open up the “possibility” below:

 

John 5:24 – 25 = Christians who Rise at the “hour now is” (START  hour of the LAST DAY without Judgment) to be part of the First Resurrection

 

John 5:28 – 29 = some non-Christians saved while some non-Christians condemned when they ‘rise simultaneously’ in the Second Resurrection at the “hour which is coming” on the ‘Last day’ (END HOUR of this LAST DAY, separated by 1000 years).

 

If each word is to have a meaning, the phrase ” in “… the hour is coming, and now is,…” in the Verse “… the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. …” (John 5:25, NKJV) could refer to ‘those who live or saved‘ as:

 

  1. i) ‘the hour now is’ (referring to the Last Day as it’s Resurrection Context) = START of the 1000 years Millennial Reign for the First Badge of Righteous = Christian Salvation

 

  1. ii) ‘the hour is coming’ (referring to the Last Day as it’s Resurrection Context) = END of the 1000 years Millennial Reign into start of Judgment Day for second badge of righteous = non-Christian Salvation for some

 

The similar phrase “… the hour is coming, and now is,…” in John 4:23 in the Context of Worshipping God in “Spirit and Truth” may thus actually point to when we are Resurrected as these two badges of righteous only fully know the truth on ‘after their Resurrection’ as ‘no one knows everything fully from here as even Blessed Apostle St. Paul himself said he sees dimly only’ (in 1 Corinthians 13:12).

 

This ‘matches well’ because in John 5:28 Christ didn’t Say  “… the HOUR IS COMING, and NOW IS, …” (as He did in John 5:25, “TWO HOURS” = “TWO RESURRECTIONS”) but only “… 28Do not marvel at this; for the HOUR IS COMING …” (“ONE HOUR” = “Second Resurrection” only).

 

So, the phrase “… the HOUR IS COMING, and NOW IS, …” (in John 5:25) may thus mean “TWO RESURRECTIONS of the RIGHTEOUS to be SAVED in TWO DIFFERENT TIMES separated by 1000 years on this LAST DAY/Millennial Reign”.

Similarly, the phrase  “… 28Do not marvel at this; for the HOUR IS COMING …” (in John 5:28) may thus mean the Second Resurrection hour which has a “Badge of Righteous vs Wicked” rising simultaneously.

 

Does St. Irenaeous have a quote using this “same phrases”? yes as quoted next.

 

 

  1. d) St. Irenaeous of Lyons uses the phrase “… this; for the HOUR IS COMING …” (in John 5:28)

 

 

“… Again, He called Lazarus “with a loud voice, saying, Lazarus, come forth; and HE that WAS DEAD came forth bound with bandages, feet and hands.” This was SYMBOLICAL of that MAN who had been BOUND in SINS. And therefore the Lord said, “Loose him, and let him depart.” As, therefore, THOSE who were HEALED were MADE WHOLE in THOSE MEMBERS which had in TIMES PAST been AFFLICTED; and the DEAD ROSE in the IDENTICAL BODIES, their limbs and bodies receiving health, and that life which was granted by the Lord, who prefigures eternal things by temporal, and shows that it is He who is Himself able to extend BOTH HEALING and LIFE to HIS HANDIWORK, that His words concerning its [future] RESURRECTION may also be believed; so also at the END, when the Lord utters His voice “by the LAST TRUMPET,” [1 Corinthians 15:52] the dead shall be raised, as He Himself declares: “The HOUR SHALL COME, in which ALL THE DEAD which are in the TOMBS shall hear the voice of the Son of man, and shall come forth; those that have DONE GOOD to the RESURRECTION of LIFE, and those that have DONE EVIL to the RESURRECTION of JUDGMENT.” [John 5:28 – 29] – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XIII, Point 1)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

 

 

St. Irenaeous’ quote of John 5:28 – 29 seem to point to the “Last Trumpet” (“Second Resurrection”) pointing to “hour is coming or HOUR SHALL COME” referring to John 5:28 – 29 literal simultaneous resurrection of a ‘Second Badge of Righteous to be Saved’ which is clearly 1000 YEARS AFTER the FIRST RESURRECTION of CHRISTIANS (Revelation 20:5).

 

 

 

The phrase “Last Trumpet” in St. Irenaeous’ usage above points to this “General Resurrection/Judgment of all Men on Judgment Day” where the word “last” also means that there must be an “earlier trumpet” blown not in the Context of Judgment but “Resurrection” purely to which it is compared which may be seen in Verses below:

 

  1. The “FIRST” TRUMPET in the Context of FIRST Resurrection

 

“… 15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that WE WHO ARE ALIVE and REMAIN UNTIL the COMING OF THE LORD will by NO MEANS PRECEDE THOSE WHO ARE [d]ASLEEP. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and WITH THE TRUMPET OF GOD. And THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST. 17Then WE WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds to MEET THE LORD in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words. …” (1 Thessalonians 4:15 – 18, NKJV)

 

  1. The “LAST” TRUMPET in the Context of SECOND Resurrection

 

“… 51Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED— 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMPET. For the trumpet will sound, and THE DEAD WILL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED.  …” (1 Corinthians 15:51 – 52, NKJV)

 

Is 1 Thessalonians 4:15 – 18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51 – 52 Speaking of the ‘same trumpet’ as many Christians assume? Let’s discuss this mystery part in next page.

 

iii. This “FIRST and LAST” TRUMPET are separated by “1000 years” in the Context of Resurrection on this LAST DAY (Millennial Reign Timeline)

 

“… But THE REST OF THE DEAD DID NOT LIVE AGAIN until the THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED. This is the first resurrection. …” (Revelation 20:5, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

  1. iv) Mystery of the Last Trumpet “Possibility

 

Firstly, we consider this “possibility” because St. Irenaeous’ quote earlier points to the usage of this Verse as referring to the Second Resurrection which is 1000 years after the First Resurrection. Common Assumption: the “Last trumpet” here is referring to the “Rapture”  since “we shall be changed” during the “First Resurrection” but is it talking about that change or something deeper? Is St. Irenaeous’ quote earlier using it on the Second Resurrection timeline as evidenced by his quoting of John 5:28 – 29 with it wrong instead?

 

Let’s Discuss this fascinating Mystery as follows assuming St. Irenaeous of Lyons is correct and that the Last Trumpet refers to the Second Resurrection:

 

  1. Firstly, Let’s look at that set of Verses more closely again with Verse 50 included this time for ‘Context’:

 

“… 50Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMPET. For the trumpet will sound, and THE DEAD WILL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED.  …” (1 Corinthians 15:50 – 52, NKJV)

 

  1. The “WE” in this Passage refers “ONLY to CHRISTIANS/ELECT

 

  1. It is “not” Written that “WE” (shall be ‘Raised incorruptible’) but only that “WE SHALL BE CHANGED”. Can you see it?

 

  1. This means that “WE” at that time (already Resurrected for 1000 years, Revelation 20:4 – 6) are “BEING CHANGED” refers to “ALL CHRISTIANS” meaning it’s unlikely the “Rapture” which only the ‘alive ones are changed in twinkling of an eye’ earlier. The “we shall not asleep” may refer to some Christians undergoing first that type of change during the “Rapture” earlier drawn in analogy of comparison here. However, at the “Last Trumpet” (1000 years after Rapture), another “CHANGE” likewise seems to be echoed but this time to “ALL” CHRISTIANS which is impossible if the earlier ‘Rapture’ is meant.

 

 

  1. This “BEING CHANGED” may refer actually to “OUR RESURRECTION BODIES” for Christians being Celestial/Heavenly are Changed to “Another Higher Glory” as may be mysteriously echoed as a process that never ends (as God Wills) from “GLORY to GLORY

“… But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being TRANSFORMED into the SAME IMAGE FROM GLORY TO GLORY, just as by the Spirit of the Lord. …” (2 Corinthians 3:18, NKJV)

 

Sounds nice but is it supported by any authoritative First Christianity quote from this “Chiliasm” Camp? Yes, this legendary saint himself reveals this mystery likewise:

 

“… , AFTER THE SPACE OF A THOUSAND YEARS, CHANGED FROM A HUMAN AND CORRUPIBLE FORM INTO ANGELIC SIZE AND BEAUTY, where at last we virgins, when the FESTIVAL OF THE RESURRECTION IS CONSUMMATED, shall pass from the wonderful place of the tabernacle to greater and better things, ascending into the very house of God above the heavens, …” – Blessed St. Methodius of Olympus

Please consider his quote below in “full” which clearly Speaks of the “Christian/Elect Resurrection only” to undergo this “CHANGE” which ONLY TAKES PLACE at the END of the 1000 years  i.e. at the “LAST TRUMPET” when “WE SHALL BE CHANGED” as Written Twice in 1 Corinthians 15:51 and 1 Corinthians 15:52, to quote:

 

“…  For I also, taking my journey, and going forth from the Egypt of this life, CAME FIRST TO THE RESURRECTION, which is the true Feast of the Tabernacles, and there having set up my tabernacle, ADORNED WITH THE FRUITS OF VIRTUE, ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE RESURRECTION, which is the DAY OF JUDGMENT, CELEBRATE WITH CHRIST THE MILLENNIUM OF REST, WHICH IS CALLED THE SEVENTH DAY, EVEN THE TRUE SABBATH. Then again from thence I, a follower of Jesus, who has entered into the heavens, Hebrews 4:14 as they also, after the rest of the Feast of Tabernacles, came into the laud of promise, come into the heavens, not continuing to remain in tabernacles — that is, my body not remaining as it was before, but, AFTER THE SPACE OF A THOUSAND YEARS, CHANGED FROM A HUMAN AND CORRUPIBLE FORM INTO ANGELIC SIZE AND BEAUTY, where at last we virgins, when the FESTIVAL OF THE RESURRECTION IS CONSUMMATED, shall pass from the wonderful place of the tabernacle to greater and better things, ascending into the very house of God above the heavens, as, says the Psalmist, in the voice of praise and thanksgiving, among such as keep holy day.  …” – Blessed St. Methodius of Olympus, bishop in Lycia. Little is known of his life. He was apparently put to death in the Diocletianic persecution. Only a small part of his extensive writing survives. The ‘Symposium [Banquet], or On Chastity’, also known as the ‘Banquet of the Ten Virgins’, extols virginity. In a treatise on the Resurrection, he took issue with Origen and upheld the identity of the resurrection body with that worn in this life. His work on Free Will is a defence of human liberty against the fatalism of the Gnostics (died c. 311 AD, Banquet of the Ten Virgins, Discourse 9, Chapter 5) Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/062309.htm

 

  1. The phrase “… that FLESH AND BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom of God; …” Written in Verse 50 here and then this change described at Judgment Day Timeline means that the “New Heavens and New Earth” are only inheritable by a CHANGE in the BODY with is NO MORE FLESH and BLOOD which St. Methodius CALLS IT ANGELIC. Can you see it?

 

  1. Please notice carefully that in the First Resurrection (as per Christ’s Body too as Described in Luke 24:36 – 43), it still has “FLESH” and so “BLOOD too possibly” as per Verses below:

 

“… 36Now as they said these things, JESUS HIMSELF stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “PEACE TO YOU.” 37But they were terrified and frightened, and SUPPOSED THEY HAD SEEN A SPIRIT38And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, FOR A SPIRIT DOES NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONES AS YOU SEE I HAVE. 40[j]When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you ANY FOOD HERE?” 42So they gave Him a piece of a BROILED FISH [k]and SOME HONEYCOMB. 43And HE TOOK IT AND ATE IN THEIR PRESENCE. …” (Luke 24:36 – 43, NKJV)

 

In the Context of the First Resurrection, we (Christians) will have a Resurrected Body  with FLESH and BONES (BLOOD too) though we CANNOT DIE as Described above where as Christ Himself Demonstrated that we will EAT FOOD and Likewise.

 

So combining these Verses, we see that to “… inherit the kingdom of God; …” referring to the FINAL “NEW Earth and NEW Heavens” (Revelation 21:1) we may “not” have this “FLESH AND BLOOD” part anymore “BEING CHANGED” into “ANGELIC” Beauty of some sort at that time when the Second Resurrection happens.

 

 

 

 

Luke 20:34 – 36 may be Summarising this Change as a whole that within that AGE (AEON) of 1000 years, Christians by the end of it WILL BE CHANGED into ANGELIC BEAUTY as CHRIST HIMSELF Reveals below:

 

“… 34JESUS ANSWERED and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are counted worthy to attain that AGE (Aeon/Olam), and the resurrection from the dead (Revelation 20:4 – 6), NEITHER MARRY NOR ARE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE; 36NOR CAN THEY DIE ANYMORE, FOR THEY ARE EQUAL TO THE ANGELS and ARE SONS OF GOD, being SONS OF THE RESURRECTION. …” (Luke 20:34 – 36, NKJV)

 

So Christ must be Describing this Process as a ‘whole’ as in His Resurrection He also looked Human with “FLESH and BONES” as He Himself Said (in Luke 24:39 so we will be likewise first) but could walk through walls too (John 20:24 – 29) but in the end of that AEON/AGE (referring to the 1000 years Millennial reign Context) WILL BE EQUAL TO ANGELS and ARE SONS OF GOD (in Luke 20:34 – 36 above).

  1. The phrase “… , AT THE LAST TRUMPET. For the trumpet will sound, and THE DEAD WILL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE …” in these Verses seems to point to a ‘SECOND RESURRECTION’ clearly. Can you see it?

The phrase “… and THE DEAD WILL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE …” = Second Resurrection while in comparison “WE” (Christians/Elect/Bride) are “NOT” Raised now  as we are already Raised 1000 years earlier but are compared here to undergo that change from “no” more “flesh and blood” into “angelic beauty” when all these related Verses are taken together to see this more fully.

So, St. Ireanaeous’ quote here might be “CORRECT” all along in that this LAST TRUMPET Verse refers to the “SECOND RESURRECTION” and hence has a unique Second Badge of Righteous to be saved in a non-Elect Salvation as he quotes John 5:28 – 29 for this Timeline which means it is “LITERAL” (and since we may miss knowing it, and that’s why Christ may have pointed the “DO NOT MARVEL” part for this), Verses:

 

“… 28Do not marvel at this; for the HOUR IS COMING in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. …” (John 5:28 – 29, NKJV)

 

This agrees well to these set of Verses next too (which we consider as a “possibility” too because St. Irenaeous’ quote seem to point Generally and hence we may “speculate” the details), Verses:

 

“… 39ALL FLESH IS NOT THE SAME FLESH, but there is one kind [f]of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. 40There are also [g]CELESTIAL BODIES and [h]TERRESTRIAL BODIES; but the GLORY of the CELESTIAL is one, and the GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42So also is the RESURRECTION of THE DEAD.  …” (1 Corinthians 15:39 – 42, NKJV)

 

  1. i) CELESTIAL BODIES = relates or belong to “Heavenly bodies” (Christian Resurrection Bodies)
  2. ii) TERRESTRIAL BODIES = relates to “earthly bodies” (some non-Christians who are saved’s resurrection bodies)

 

Note: Now the word “Glory” in “… GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another …” (mentioned clearly in 1 Corinthians 15:40) in this Context of “Resurrection of the Dead” (1 Corinthians 15:42)  itself indicates that some of the of the TERRESTRIAL RESURRECTION BODIES are also “Saved” for it doesn’t seem logical for a body raised with “glory” to be “unsaved“. To say that this “Terrestrial Glory” ones refers to some lower Christians contradicts Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32 which describes Christ Sharing One Flesh with all Christians in some way and so they must be “CELESTIAL (Heavenly) RESURRECTION GLORY Bodies only“.

 

Also, in this Same Chapter the word “we” in “…  WE SHALL ALSO BEAR THE IMAGE of the HEAVENLY MAN. …” (1 Corinthians 15:49) refers only to “Christians”  who are called here as “Heavenly Man” meaning “CELESTIAL (Heavenly) RESURRECTION GLORY Bodies only” again so if some Christians have only “… GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another …” (1 Corinthians 15:40) type of Resurrection Body (1 Corinthians 15:42), it’s a clear contradiction.

 

Also the phrase here in 1 Corinthians 15:42 comparing these two types of Glory of Celestial (Heavenly) Vs Terrestrial (Earthly) as “another” clearly implies that these are speaking of two classes of Resurrection Bodies distinctly where the word “Glory” indicates these are among the “saved” most likely.

Am I stretching these “possibilities” too far?

I am “not” sure but I discussed more like a brief summary in link below (or in Pages 571) of this #MysteryoftheKingdomofHeavenBook

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161404805337784

 

I repeat, I could be wrong but reading these Verses literally seem to point this as a “possibility” (“not Doctrine”) and when God Reveals it One Day I accept it either way.

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

#WomenPastors .

 

 

 

Rebellion of Korah “Risk” Mystery – Possibility not Doctrine

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10161686421292784

 

0) Firstly I am “not” creating a possibility out of thin air but rather something risky as the example post  discussed in link below Speaks of Verses strongly condemning even those who put away “New Testament Traditions” (Page 473 in this book so how much more other more serious New Testament Traditions when broken could merit similar risks?)

 

https://www.facebook.com/651792783/posts/10161640884237784/

 

1) Apostle Jude Warns of it within Christianity of the “New Testament” so we better understand it lest we perish likewise

 

“… Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the REBELLION OF KORAH. …” (Jude 1:11, NKJV)

 

2) What did Korah and his gang desire?

 

Basically they think that anyone in the Christian assembly is fit to do the work of the priest (“Christian” being the general metaphor here permitted by Apostle Jude’s usage to the New Testament in analogy above)

 

“… 1Now KORAH the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, with Dathan and Abiram the sons of Eliab, and On the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men; 2and they rose up before Moses with some of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty leaders of the congregation, representatives of the congregation, men of renown. 3They gathered together AGAINST MOSES AND AARON, and said to them, “You [a]take too much upon yourselves, for ALL THE CONGREGATION IS HOLY, EVERY ONE OF THEM, AND THE LORD is AMONG THEM. Why then DO YOU EXALT YOURSELVES ABOVE THE ASSEMBLY OF THE LORD?” …” (Numbers 16:1 – 3, NKJV)

 

 

3) What was Prophet Moses’ Warning?

 

Moses’ clearly Warns that only the “sons” of Levi can be priests and not anyone in the Christian congregation (“no” women priests and “no” priests outside of Levi’s Descendants):

 

“… 8Then MOSES SAID TO KORAH, “Hear now, you SONS OF LEVI: 9Is it a SMALL THING to you that the God of Israel has separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to Himself, to DO THE WORK OF THE TABERNACLE of the Lord, and to stand before the congregation to serve them; 10and that He has brought you near to Himself, you and all your brethren, THE SONS OF LEVI, with you? And ARE YOU SEEKING THE PRIESTHOOD ALSO? …” (Numbers 16:8 – 10, NKJV)

 

3) What Happened to KORAH? Korah and those with him were swallowed alive into Hell

 

“… 31Now it came to pass, as he finished speaking all these words, THAT THE GROUND SPLIT APART UNDER them, 32and the EARTH OPENED ITS MOUTH and SWALLOWED THEM UP, WITH THEIR HOUSEHOLDS and ALL THE MEN WITH KORAH, with all their goods. 33So THEY AND ALL THOSE WITH THEM WENT DOWN ALIVE INTO THE PIT; the EARTH CLOSED OVER THEM, and THEY PERISHED FROM AMONG THE ASSEMBLY. 34Then all Israel who were around them fled at their cry, for they said, “Lest the earth swallow us up also!” 35And a FIRE CAME OUT FROM THE LORD and CONSUMED THE TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY MEN who were OFFERING INCENSE. …” (Numbers 16:31 – 35, NKJV)

 

4) What is it? Why was God so Angry with Korah?

 

“… 40to be a [f]memorial to the children of Israel that NO OUTSIDER, WHO IS NOT A DESCENDANT of AARON, should COME NEAR TO OFFER INCENSE BEFORE THE LORD, that he might NOT BECOME LIKE KORAH AND HIS COMPANIONS, just as the Lord had said to him through Moses. …”

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion

 

Since Apostle St. Jude quotes this “REBELLION of KORAH” Context in the “New Testament“, though the Levitical PRIESTHOOD has ENDED making way for the Melchizedek Priesthood, the analogy of “Church Order” seems to be implied.

 

 

I mean we cannot say for sure what Apostle St. Jude means in full but basically it deals with “Church Order” and the Church Order Commands of the New Testament are  clearly Found in New Testament Traditions which are largely ignored by modern Churches.

 

 

Just because Judgment doesn’t happen immediately to those who disobey like it did for Korah (who on the surface just seemed to be asking for an innocent thing namely, anyone in the Church to be able to serve at the altar and do incense or even priest work during Old Testament times) but even this merited a straight ticket to “Hell Alive”.

 

 

So what if any REBELLION AGAINST NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS OF CHURCH ORDER is considered a REBELLION OF KORAH likewise?

 

 

I am “not” saying that it must be so but POSSIBLE, Right? So as long as a “Risk” is there, I rather not do it against these Verses.

 

 

For those who do Opposite to the Bible Verses next, I don’t judge but let God Decide as any Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by speaking or quoting Him Wrongly here either way can merit the Unforgivable Sin if we are not careful, Matthew 12:30 – 32.

 

 

 

 

Example of New Testament Traditions regarding Church Order which may come into Context in analogy of Obedience Required as God Established these Rules in Churches which was even followed by First Christianity, the Church Fathers and even by the Protestant Founders themselves as I have demonstrated in previous chapters (posts too):

 

  1. Example of Congregation Order observed not just by the Corinthians Church but “all Churches of the Saints” with “no alternate Customs practiced

 

“… 16But if anyone seems to be CONTENTIOUS, we have NO SUCH CUSTOM, NOR DO THE CHURCHES OF GOD. … 32And the SPIRITS OF THE PROPHETS are SUBJECT TO THE PROPHETS. 33For GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF [I]CONFUSION but of PEACE, as in ALL THE CHURCHES OF THE SAINTS. 34Let [j]YOUR WOMEN KEEP SILENT IN THE CHURCHES, for they are NOT PERMITTED TO SPEAK; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is SHAMEFUL FOR WOMEN TO SPEAK IN CHURCH. 36Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37If ANYONE THINKS HIMSELF TO BE a PROPHET or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things WHICH I WRITE to you are the COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD. …” (1 Corinthians 14:16, 32 – 37, NKJV)

 

  1. No women being “spiritual” leaders over men in our congregation

 

“… And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. …” (1 Timothy 2:12, NKJV)

Comment: This means that women can be bosses in the secular world be it being CEO’s or bosses in companies etc. but not in Church Order as 1 Timothy 2:12 to 1 Corinthians 14:34 prohibit all that.

 

  1. Women must wear a veil over her head when Praying because of angels (1 Corinthians 11:1 – 16)

 

“… 1IMITATE ME, JUST AS I ALSO IMITATE CHRIST. 2Now I PRAISE YOU, BRETHREN, that you REMEMBER me in all things and KEEP THE TRADITIONS just as I delivered them to you. 3But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head. 5But EVERY WOMAN WHO PRAYS OR PROPHESIES with HER HEAD UNCOVERED DISHONORS her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. … (1 Corinthians 11:1 – 5, NKJV)

The hair is not the covering spoken of here but drawn in analogy of nature, Verses:

 

“… 7For a MAN INDEED OUGHT NOT TO COVER HIS HEAD, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man … 10For THIS REASON THE WOMAN OUGHT to have a SYMBOL OF AUTHORITY on HER HEAD, BECAUSE OF THE ANGELS …13Judge among yourselves. Is it PROPER FOR A WOMAN TO PRAY TO GOD WITH HER HEAD UNCOVERED? 14Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? 15But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given [a]to her for a covering. 16But if ANYONE SEEMS TO BE CONTENTIOUS, WE HAVE NO SUCH CUSTOM, NOR DO THE CHURCHES OF GOD. …” (1 Corinthians 11:7, 10, 13 – 16, NKJV)

 

Context: If the “coveringin Verse 13 refers to hair for women as sufficient, then the same word used in Verse 7 Speaks of mennot to be covered” whilst praying thus must mean that every man must be “bald with no hair” when they “pray“.

 

This is absurd but some believe such modern interpretations. Truth is the “covering or no covering” for prayer in Verses 13 and 7 for women and men respectively refers to the ‘same covering’ which is a “veil or equivalent put on the head” during prayer.

 

Please also remember that Verse 10 said the reason for this is “angels” and if “hair” was sufficient then even with or without prayer, a woman has her hair all the time so why need to write about any specific covering on her head for prayer then?

 

I mean a woman’s hair is always on her head even with or without praying and so if nothing extra needs to be put on the head for covering (as her hair is enough as modern interpreters teach), then what’s the point these Bible Verses are Written since after reading them too, IF these women did not put anything else on the head as veil but just their hair? See the absurdity?

 

It was Written because they had to put something extra namely a veil or equivalent to cover their heads during prayer or prophesying (not all the time) which is why these Verses were Written.

 

Since the reason is angels and they exist back then and now, this ought to be done today as well.

 

Additional Context: Please notice carefully that observing these New Testament Traditions (1 Corinthians chapters 11 to 14 is “not” called a cultural adjustment but the “Commands of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 14:37) and also as the way “we OUGHT to IMITATE/FOLLOW CHRIST” which the BIBLE PRAISES NOT CONDEMNS (1 Corinthians 11:1 – 2) at the start of this listing of these Traditions itself.

 

Verse in 1 Corinthians 11:16 here mentions clearly that this was not a Corinthian Church observation but for  CHURCHES EVERYWHERE WITH NO ALTERNATE CUSTOMS either in ANY CHURCH OF GOD (please notice phrases such as “NO SUCH CUSTOM” or  “NOR DO THE CHURCHES OF GOD” or “ALL CHURCHES OF THE SAINTS” carefully in  quoted Verses to ‘realize’ this).

 

Claiming that their women’s prayers were answered without this practice is equivalent in analogy for Roman Catholics to claim likewise that their women’s prayers are also answered when they “pray to virgin Mary“.

 

In fact, the Roman Catholic Church has way more money or answered prayers or converts to claim that if ‘one’s seemingly answered prayer’ is proof of truth, then theirs is it as they have more testimonies of that than anyone else with “prosperity” even.

 

Comment: If some of the Modern Churches are “not” afraid to do AGAINST these WRITTEN VERSES based on their new modern ways, why should we be afraid to FOLLOW THIS APPROVED SCRIPTURAL WAY?

 

  1. Speaking in Tongues (if anybody has this Gift we don’t judge but we encourage it based on these Rules only)

 

“…  27If ANYONE SPEAKS IN A TONGUE, LET THERE BE TWO OR AT THE MOST THREE, EACH IN TURN, AND LET ONE INTERPRET. 28But if there is NO INTERPRETER, LET HIM KEEP SILENT IN CHURCH, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, LET THE FIRST KEEP SILENT. 31For YOU CAN ALL PROPHESY ONE BY ONE, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33For GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF [I]CONFUSION but OF PEACE, AS IN ALL THE CHURCHES OF THE SAINTS. …” (1 Corinthians 14:27 – 33, NKJV)

 

 

Remember

 

“… 19yet IN THE CHURCH I would RATHER SPEAK FIVE WORDS with MY UNDERSTANDING, that I may TEACH OTHERS ALSO, than TEN THOUSAND WORDS IN A TONGUE. …” (1 Corinthians 11:19, NKJV)

 

Note: So these “Verses” (not me) Teach of no Speaking in Tongues publicly at Church unless there are two or three at most with interpreters and “in turn” (1 Corinthians 14:26 – 33). These Verses do “not” support a simultaneous speaking in tongues (as it’s “not in turn“) and of more than 3 either (if the Bible Specifies a number, it is best to follow it as wouldn’t God Administer His Gift according to His Own Rule here?)

 

Risk

 

If disobeying these Church Order Commands can be considered as part of the “Rebellion of KORAH” type which merited Hell straight for those believers of the past (possible because their sin was just trying to help to do God’s Ministry but NOT ACCORDING TO HIS RULE at that Old Testament time with NO BIG SIN MENTIONED SUCH as Breaking the 10 Commandments or equivalent mentioned), then what makes you think that such a Risk is not possible in ANALOGY of NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH ORDER VERSES as Jude 1:11 Reveals Mysteriously?

 

Could this be the one of the reasons the following Christians are Denied due to #Lawlessness in these aspects despite converting MANY based on “Prophesying, Casting out of Demons and Miracles too” in THAT DAY (Referring to an End-Time Popular Christianity When HE RETURNS?), Verses:

 

“… 21“Not