Question or Accusation
You are a false teacher who is preaching his ‘own theory’.
Reply
I am preaching First Christianity as it was taught by the ‘kings of Theology’ (e.g. Justin Martyr, Irenaeous, Hippolytus, Clement of ALexandria …). Let’s begin, this time with the focus on ‘Hippolytus of Rome’.
“Now, as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of His royalty and glory, in the same way have the Scriptures also aforetime spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence.
For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king.
The Saviour was manifested as a lamb; so he too, in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Saviour came into the World in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles.
The Saviour gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him, and he will give one like manner. The Saviour appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man.
The Saviour raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem. And his seductive arts we shall exhibit in what follows. But for the present let us turn to the question in hand.” – Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD, TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, Point 6)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/hippolytus-christ.html
P/S: More Wisdom of Doctrine as it is recorded from the writings of Hippolytus of Rome
All Quotes are from the link above unless specified otherwise.
Please note carefully the phrase in the beginning of the quote above which Proves the Trinity —> “our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God”.
1) Who was ‘Hippolytus of Rome’?
He was an early saint and martyr and a presbyter of the church at Rome under Pope Zephyrinus.
“Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD) was one of the most important third-century theologians in the Diocese of Rome … a disciple of Irenaeus, who was said to be a disciple of Polycarp, … he was reconciled to the Church before he died as a martyr.” (Hippolytus of Rome, Wikipedia)
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippolytus_of_Rome
2) What was his problem with the early church leaders at Rome?
Hippolytus was ‘stricter’ than the ‘other Romans church leaders’ (including the ‘ruling Pope during his lifetime’) in regards to ‘doctrine’, to quote (from the same Wikipedia Source above):
“He opposed the Roman Popes who softened the penitential system to accommodate the large number of new pagan converts. However, he was reconciled to the Church before he died as a martyr” (Hippolytus of Rome, Wikipedia)
3) What are some key traits of the antichrist?
“… But that no one may err by supposing that this is said of the Saviour, let him attend carefully to the matter. “Dan,” he says, “is a lion’s whelp;” and in naming the tribe of Dan, he declared clearly the tribe from which Antichrist is destined to spring. For as Christ springs from the tribe of Judah, so Antichrist is to spring from the tribe of Dan…
That it is in reality out of the tribe of Dan, then, that that tyrant and king, that dread judge, that son of the devil, is destined to spring and arise, the prophet testifies when he says, “Dan shall judge his people, as (he is) also one tribe in Israel.” But some one may say that this refers to Samson, who sprang from the tribe of Dan, and judged the people twenty years. Well, the prophecy had its partial fulfilment in Samson, but its complete fulfilment is reserved for Antichrist. For Jeremiah also speaks to this effect: “From Dan we are to hear the sound of the swiftness of his horses:…
These words then being thus presented, let us observe somewhat in detail what Daniel says in his visions. For in distinguishing the kingdoms that are to rise after these things, he showed also the coming of Antichrist in the last times, and the consummation of the whole world…” – Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD, TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, Point 14, Point 15, Point 19 respectively)
4) Preterism is false according to Hippolytus too.
Hippolytus clearly reveals that the 1 week from the Infamous Daniel Prophecy refers to the antichrist’s reign, to quote:
“Now Daniel will set forth this subject to us. For he says, “And one week will make a covenant with many, and it shall be that in the midst (half) of the week my sacrifice and oblation shall cease.” By one week, therefore, he meant the last week which is to be at the end of the whole world of which week the two prophets Enoch and Elias will take up the half. For they will preach 1,260 days clothed in sackcloth, proclaiming repentance to the people and to all the nations.” – Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD, TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, Point 43)
It’s obvious from the above that the ‘[True] Gospel Preached to ALL NATIONS before the end comes’ (Verse below) as it was Prophesied by our Blessed Saviour Himself is NOT referring to the ‘Catholic Church NOR the Protestant Church’s error filled theology or evangelism efforsts’ but those that will be Preached by His TWO WITNESSES (Enoch and Elias or Elijah) during the [first] half of the antichrist’s reign (after which the beast or antichrist will rise from the abyss and kill them in the ‘middle of the week’ establishing the antichrist’s strong rule for the remaining second half or 3 and a half days/years/times before Christ’s Glorious Return on His White Horse to Destroy the antichrist – as explained in our previous write-ups too agreeing Perfectly to this EARLIEST CORRECT EXEGESIS regarding this Topic).
“This Gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole [inhabited] world [Greek: ‘oikoumenē’ and NOT ‘Cosmos’] as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:14, NASB)
5) Hippolytus taught that the Gospel is Preached to the Souls of the Dead
(and ‘NOT when they were alive on earth’ and NEITHER when they were ‘spiritually dead’ and certainly ‘NOT to the fallen angels as Augustine of Hippo erred’ – in understanding Christ’s First Preaching aspects in regards to this as recorded in 1 Peter 3:18 – 20)
Hippolytus Taught that Lord Jesus Christ’s First Preaching of the Gospel to the Dead (1 Peter 3:18 – 20) refers to the “souls of the dead” (in the ‘afterlife abodes’ or ‘Shadow of Death’ regions as St. Irenaeous calls it in his writings) as the phrase ‘under the earth’ in the quote below includes as well —> with the focus being the ‘souls of the saints’:
“… all power given by the Father to the Son, who is ordained Lord of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth, and Judge of all … before all (ages) … and of things under the earth, because He was also reckoned among the dead, preaching the Gospel to the souls of the saints, (and) by death overcoming death” – Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD, TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, Point 26)
Yep, at Hades (Sheol) or ‘Hell’ itself where the ‘Rich Man was’ where Hippolytus focuses on the ‘abodes of the saints in Hades’ such as ‘Abraham’s Bosom’ (where Abraham & Lazarus was, implied intrinsically, from Luke 16:19 – 31):
“… He also first preached to those in Hades, becoming a forerunner there when he was put to death by Herod, that there too he might intimate that the Saviour would descend to ransom the souls of the saints from the hand of death.” – Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD, TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, Point 45)
Hippolytus is NOT restricting the ‘Preaching of the Gospel’ to the ‘souls of the saints’ but is ‘highlighting that since the saints have the precedence & come to being ransomed by Christ without enduring any afterlife Judgments in contrast to the souls of the wicked’.
Here’s an edifying Comment regarding this:
Preaching of the Gospel – Unstoppable
Gospel is Preached even to the Dead (1 Peter 4:6) where the ‘punishment may be endured for their sins first’ before they can live in the spirit state to God thereafter’, Verse:
“for for this also to dead men was good news proclaimed, that they may be judged, indeed, according to men in the flesh, and may live according to God in the spirit.” – apostle Peter (1 Peter 4:6, YLT)
Lord Jesus Christ Started this First Preaching of the Gospel toward the Dead to have these affects as it is Recorded in 1 Peter 3:18 – 20.
‘Before Him (Lord Jesus Christ), nothing was possible but since He has been Manifested in the Flesh, truly All Things are Possible to Him’.
A detailed discussion regarding this Topic only with ‘Earliest Church History’ may be found in link below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/secrets-of-the-gospel-being-preached-to-the-dead/
6) Israel (the Widow) will be helped and deceived by the antichrist
“He then, having gathered to himself the unbelieving everywhere throughout the world, comes at their call to persecute the saints, their enemies and antagonists, as the apostle and evangelist says: “There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: and there was a widow in that city, who came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her.”
By the unrighteous judge, who fears not God, neither regards man, he means without doubt Antichrist, as he is a son of the devil and a vessel of Satan. For when he has the power, he will begin to exalt himself against God, neither in truth fearing God, nor regarding the Son of God, who is the Judge of all. And in saying that there was a widow in the city, he refers to Jerusalem itself, which is a widow indeed, forsaken of her perfect, heavenly spouse, God. She calls Him her adversary, and not her Saviour; for she does not understand that which was said by the prophet Jeremiah: “Because they obeyed not the truth, a spirit of error shall speak then to this people and to Jerusalem.” …” – Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD, TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, Point 56, Point 57)
7) The Woman in Revelation (not the ‘widow’) is the Church
“By the woman then clothed with the sun,” he meant most manifestly the Church, endued wth the Father’s word, whose brightness is above the sun. And by the “moon under her feet” he referred to her being adorned, like the moon, with heavenly glory. And the words, “upon her head a crown of twelve stars,” refer to the twelve apostles by whom the Church was founded. And those, “she, being with child, cries, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered,” mean that the Church will not cease to bear from her heart the Word that is persecuted by the unbelieving in the world. “And she brought forth,” he says, “a man-child, who is to rule all the nations;” by which is meant that the Church, always bringing forth Christ, the perfect man-child of God, who is declared to be God and man, becomes the instructor of all the nations. And the words, “her child was caught up unto God and to His throne,” signify that he who is always born of her is a heavenly king, and not an earthly; even as David also declared of old when he said, “The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit Thou at my right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool.” “And the dragon,” he says, “saw and persecuted the woman which brought forth the man-child. And to the woman were given two wings of the great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.” That refers to the one thousand two hundred and threescore days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church, which flees from city to city, and seeks conceal-meat in the wilderness among the mountains, possessed of no other defence than the two wings of the great eagle, that is to say, the faith of Jesus Christ, who, in stretching forth His holy hands on the holy tree, unfolded two wings, the right and the left, and called to Him all who believed upon Him, and covered them as a hen her chickens. For by the mouth of Malachi also He speaks thus: “And unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in His wings.”
The Lord also says, “When ye shall see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand), then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains, and let him which is on the housetop not come down to take his clothes; neither let him which is in the field return back to take anything out of his house. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved.” And Daniel says, “And they shall place the abomination of desolation a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand two hundred and ninety-five days.”
And the blessed Apostle Paul, writing to the Thessalonians, says: “Now we beseech you, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together at it, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letters as from us, as that the day of the Lord is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means; for (that day shall not come) except there come the falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth, that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now letteth (will let), until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: (even him) whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” And Esaias says, “Let the wicked be cut off, that he behold not the glory of the Lord.” – Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD, TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, Point 61, Point 62, Point 63)
8) 1 Week reign of antichrist is split to two parts (first half, middle of the week, second half)
Hippolytus reaffirms that the 1 Week (7 Days/Years/Times) Reign of the antichrist is split to “two halves” where as described in prior write-ups or the Hippolytus’ writing (which we are not quoting in full – it may be literally read in provided link):
First half (3 and a half days/years/times) = The Two Witness Preach the Gospel to All Nations and the antichrist’s spirit makes a covenant of 1 week to Israel.
Middle of the Week = The Beast or Antichrist Kills the Two Witness and Sets up the Abomination of Desolation helping Israel to Fulfill their ‘Temple building’.
Second half (3 and a half days/years/times) = The antichrist’s reign comes in full strength where whoever not receiving the mark of the beast will not be able to ‘buy or sell’ & kills all those who oppose him which ends only with Lord Jesus Christ’s Glorious Return on His White Horse.
“These things, then, being to come to pass, beloved, and the one week being divided into two parts, and the abomination of desolation being manifested then, and the two prophets and forerunners of the Lord having finished their course, and the whole world finally approaching the consummation, what remains but the coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ from heaven, for whom we have looked in hope? who shall bring the conflagration and just judgment upon all who have refused to believe on Him.” – Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD, TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, Point 64)
9) Hippolytus taught Two Resurrections – the First Resurrection vs the General Resurrection
The First Resurrection = The ‘Resurrection of the Just’ at the ‘start hour – now is’ (Prophetically echoed in John 5:25) to inherit His 1000 years Milennial Kingdom in this [Old] Earth itself on the Last or Seventh Day of this Current age, the ‘Day of the Age’ (only for Christ’s Bride, the believer of faith who believe in Him before seeing Him obtain this Immortality, Sheepfold1, Revelation 20:4 – 6, Luke 14:14 living alongside mortals too who remain on earth during these ‘times of the kingdom’ as Irenaeous calls it).
The Second Resurrection = The resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked (Acts 24:15, Daniel 12:2, John 5:28 – 29) = called the ‘General Resurrection’ in St. Irenaeous of Lyons writing (more details and quotes proving this distinction was discussed earlier in link below – Hippolytus being the disciple of Irenaeous must have spoken under this understanding too likewise), as the Catholic Encyclopedia explains Hippolytus’ writing below likewise too (below)):
Please note that John 5:25 Prophetically mentions two groups of righteous, namely ‘Sheepfold1’ (John 10:14, the righteous by faith in Christ – highest) vs ‘Sheepfold2’ (John 10:16, the righteous by ‘good works only’ – much lower) —> as evidenced by the phrases ‘hour now is’ (referring to the ‘start hour’ on this 7th or Last Day) vs ‘hour is coming’ (referring to the ‘end hour’ on this 7th or Last Day).
Yes, only the phrase ‘hour is coming’ is mentioned in John 5:28 – 29 meaning that this is a ‘different time’ than the ‘hour now is’ (found in John 5:25) pointing to ‘a different resurrection’ than the ‘First Resurrection’.
Yes, John 5:25 points to two ‘resurrections of the righteous to life’ based on ‘two different hours within the Last or 7th Day’ (since all resurrection happens within the Last Day, John 6:40).
How about Matthew 27: 52 – 53? Isn’t this the First Resurrection?
When apostle John wrote Revelation 20:4 – 6, please note that Matthew 27:52 – 53 has ‘already occurred’. Apostle John does NOT say that Matthew 27:52 – 53 refers to the ‘First Resurrection’ and neither should we. It could be a natural body resurrection for those saints who were raised just ‘after Christ’ (Matthew 27:52 – 53) just like the ‘case of Lazarus’ or it could be that this refers to ‘Old Testament saints’ who were raised just after Christ.
I think that the latter possibility is true as the Old Testament saints have a precedence to us in this (hence they are Resurrected in Body first – as per Matthew 27:52 – 52) but they are NOT perfected in regards to ‘rewards and inheritance’ yet (as Hebrews 11:39 – 40 reveals) but are ‘waiting for the full number of the Elect of God, His Church or His Bride to come in’ (1 Thessalonians 4:14 – 17) just before His Return on His White Horse for His Marriage as well (Revelation 19:7 – 11).
These ‘resurrected Old Testament saints’ (Matthew 27:52 – 53) are the ones ‘seen on Thrones’ during the First Resurrection (Revelation 20:4) who are perfected with the rest of us (Hebrews 11:40) in regards to obtaining the Inheritance of His 1000 years Millennial Reign (Revelation 20:5 – 6).
The ‘Resurrection of the Just’ (First Resurrection) is NOT the same as the second ‘resurrection of the just & wicked’ simply because there is a 1000 year gap between the two (Revelation 20:5 & Revelation 20:7).
Also, the ‘Resurrection of the Just’ (First Resurrection) is NOT the same as the second ‘resurrection of the righteous & wicked’ —> simply because in the First Resurrection, ONLY the Righteous by Faith are Raised (Revelation 2-0:4 – 6) and the ‘rest of the dead (righteous or wicked, implied) do NOT share in ‘this particular hope’ at all (1 Thessalonians 4:13) —> while in contrast, during the Second General Resurrection, both the ‘righteous & wicked’ are raised ‘simultaneously (Daniel 12:2, John 5:28 – 29) and thereafter are Judged before the Great White Throne of Judgment (Matthew 25:31 – 46)’ based on ‘works only’ (Revelation 20:11 – 15) and NOT based on ‘faith in Christ’ (which pertains to the First Resurrection only, ‘those worthy’ – 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 17).
“… there will be a millennium after the resurrection from the dead, when the personal reign of Christ will be established on this earth (Fragments of Papias, VI. See also Eusebius, Church History, Book 3, XXXIX, 12).
“In like manner, [He said] that a grain of wheat would produce ten thousand ears, and that every ear would have ten thousand grains, and every grain would yield ten pounds of clear, pure, fine flour; and that apples, and seeds, and grass would produce in similar proportions; and that all animals, feeding then only on the productions of the earth, would become peaceable and harmonious, and be in perfect subjection to man.” [Testimony is borne to these things in writing by Papias, an ancient man, who was a hearer of John and a friend of Polycarp, in the fourth of his books; for five books were composed by him…] (Fragments of Papias, IV).
“But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.
For Isaiah spake thus concerning this space of a thousand years: ‘For there shall be the new heaven and the new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, or come into their heart; but they shall find joy and gladness in it, which things I create’…For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place.” – Justin Martyr (Dialogue. Chapters 80-81).
Please note these lines ‘carefully’ in Justin’s writing above which speaks of the ‘First Resurrection’ being DIFFERENT from the ‘General Resurrection’ where the ‘latter is for All Men’ before His Great White Throne:
b.i) Justin Reveals the ‘First Resurrection’ to be only for Sheepfold1
‘… right-minded Christians on all points, … there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem’ = First Resurrection (Revelation 20:4 – 6) = ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject’ —> where this Resurrection is ONLY for Shepfold1 or Christians as Justin Remarks, ‘that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem’.
And
b.ii) Justin Reveals that the (Second) ‘General Resurrection’ to be for the ‘rest of the dead’ (Sheepfold2 and the Wicked)
‘ that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place’ = ‘that THEREAFTER [after that 1000 years Milennial Reign of Christ of the First Resurrection for Christians only, Revelation 20:4 – 6 alongside ‘mortal sinners’ too, Isaiah 65:20, Revelation 20:7] —> the GENERAL [Resurrection], and, in short, the eternal [age-during] [General] resurrection [John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2, Matthew 25:31 – 46) and judgment of all men [in front of His Great White Throne, Revelation 20:11 – 15) would likewise take place’.
Can you see it?
c.i) TIMES of the KINGDOM = Those for the First Resurrection only during the Last or 7th Day of this Current Age for the 1000 Millennial Reign of Christ (Revelation 20:4 – 6, Luke 14:14, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 17 Jewish Prophecy/Oracles Verses from the Old Testament too).
“Again John also says the very same in the Apocalypse: “Blessed and holy is he who has part in the FIRST RESURRECTION.” Then, too, Isaiah has declared the TIME when THESE EVENTS shall OCCUR; he says: “And I said, Lord, how long? Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses be without men, and the earth be left a desert. And after these things the Lord shall remove us men far away (longe nos faciet Deus homines), and those who shall remain shall multiply upon the earth.” Then Daniel also says this very thing: “And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of those under the heaven, is given to the saints of the Most High God, whose kingdom is everlasting [age-during till the end of this age during the LAST DAY for 1000 years, Daniel 7:27], and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.” And lest the promise named should be understood as referring to this time, it was declared to the prophet: “And come thou, and stand in thy lot at the consummation of the days.” – (Iraneous, Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter 34:2)
c.ii) AFTER the TIMES of the KINGDOM (Justin mentions similarly, ‘THEREAFTER’ this 1000 years quoted earlier – implied) = the ‘General Resurrection’ happens (John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2) and Judgment before His Great White Throne follows (Revelation 20:11 – 15, Matthew 25:31 – 46).
“And in the Apocalypse John saw this new [Jerusalem] descending upon the NEW earth. For AFTER the TIMES of the KINGDOM, he says, “I saw a Great White Throne, and Him who sat upon it, from whose face the [OLD] earth fled away, and the [OLD] heavens; and there was no more place for them.” And he sets forth, too, the things connected with the GENERAL RESURRECTION and the judgment, mentioning “the dead, great and small.” … Lake of Fire, the second death.” Now this is what is called Gehenna, which the Lord styled eternal [age-during] fire. “And if any one,” it is said, “was not found written in the book of life, he was sent into the lake of fire.”… “For there shall be a NEW heaven and a NEW earth; and there shall be NO remembrance of the FORMER, neither shall the heart think about them, but they shall find in it joy and exultation.” Now this is what has been said by the apostle: “For the fashion of this world passeth away.” To the same purpose did the Lord also declare, “[OLD] Heaven and [OLD] earth shall PASS AWAY.” When these things, therefore, pass away above the earth, John, the Lord’s disciple, says that the new [426-427] Jerusalem above shall [then] descend, as a bride adorned for her husband; and that this is the tabernacle of God, in which God will dwell with men. Of this Jerusalem the former one is an image-that Jerusalem of the former earth in which the righteous are disciplined beforehand for incorruption and prepared for salvation.” – (Iraneous, Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter 35:2)
Please note that in the above that there are ‘two Jerusalems’ spoken of namely that the ‘earthly Jerusalem’ (Image, Shadow on the OLD Earth during the 1000 Millennial Reign of Christ) vs the ‘Jerusalem from above’ (Galatians 4:26, Revelation 21:2, Actual – Substance in Christ) which descends upon the NEW Earth only (Revelation 21:1, consecutive Verse prior) proving the exegesis Principle of Hebrews 10:1 and Colossians 2:17 via Iraneous own writing above.
“…there will be a period of a thousand years after the resurrection of the dead, and that the kingdom of Christ will be set up in material form on this very earth…” – Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea (AD 260/265 – 339/340 – The History of the Church, Book III, Chapter XXIX, Verse 12, p. 69)
Eusebius, coming in much later than these ‘earlier saints’ did NOT understand the details correctly and thus erred in assuming that ‘there is no 1000 Millennial Reign of Christ’ or that ‘there is no two resurrections’ (as some scholars remark) which also reflects the ‘lack of understanding’ in the minds of ‘later bishops only’ which caused them to ‘miss this important point concerning the resurrection of the dead’. This error is reflected in popular denominations today too where ‘whatever they find contradictory, they take it as symbolic’ which is not our way as we follow the earliest most reliable leaders of the church ‘as few as they may be’ as discussed here as well.
“18:1 Papias, a hearer of John, (and) bishop of Hierapolis in Asia, wrote only five books, which he entitled An Exposition of Discourses of the Lord. Wherein, when he asserts in his preface that he is not following promiscuous statements, but has the Apostles as his authorities, he says: —
2 “I used to inquire what had been said by Andrew, or by Peter, or by Philip, or by Thomas or James, or by John or Matthew or any other of the Lord’s disciples, and what Aristion and the Elder John, the disciples of the Lord, were saying. For books to read do not profit me so much as the living voice clearly sounding up to the present day in (the persons of) their authors.”
3 From which it is clear that in his list of names itself there is one John who is reckoned among the Apostles, and another the Elder John, whom he enumerates after Aristion. We have mentioned this fact on account of the statement made above, which we have recorded on the authority of very many, that the two later epistles of John are not (the work) of the Apostle, but of the Elder. This (Papias) is said to have promulgated the Jewish tradition of a Millennium, and he is followed by Irenaeus, Apollinarius and the others, who say that after the resurrection the Lord will reign in the flesh with the saints. (Jerome. Illustrious Men, Chapter 18. As translated by J. B. Lightfoot & J. R. Harmer and Edited By Daniel R. Jennings)
“Moreover concerning the Sabbath likewise it is written in the Ten Words, in which He spake to Moses face to face on Mount Sinai; And ye shall hallow the Sabbath of the Lord with pure hands and with a pure heart. And in another place He saith; If my sons observe the Sabbath then I will bestow My mercy upon them. Of the Sabbath He speaketh in the beginning of the creation; And God made the works of His hands in six days, and He ended on the seventh day, and rested on it, and He hallowed it. Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days.
He meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years; and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end. And He rested on the seventh day. this He meaneth; when His Son shall come, and shall abolish the time of the Lawless One, and shall judge the ungodly, and shall change the sun and the moon and the stars, then shall he truly rest on the seventh day.” – (Epistle of Barnabas, 15:1-5).
The link below illustrates the harmony of the Bible Verses and the Sibyline Oracles in relation to this Earliest Exegesis:
10) But didn’t Justin, Irenaeous, Hippolytus teach eternal Hell or annihilation?
Or were their words misunderstood to refer to ‘age-during Judgment’ only as per New Testament Inspired Biblical Koine Greek?
It’s discussed in great detail in post below:
Example with the [age-during] correction to the ‘English Translation’ below to reflect the ‘original Greek word which points to pertaining to the age meaning, LITERALLY’:
“Moreover, concerning the resurrection and the kingdom of the saints, Daniel says, “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall arise, some to everlasting [age-during] life, (and some to shame and everlasting [age-during] contempt).” Esaias says, “The dead men shall arise, and they that are in their tombs shall awake; for the dew from thee is healing to them.” The Lord says, “Many in that day shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live.” And the prophet says, “Awake, thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.”
And John says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the second death hath no power.” For the second death is the lake of fire that burneth. And again the Lord says, “Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun shineth in his glory.” And to the saints He will say, “Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.”
But what saith He to the wicked? “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting [age-during] fire, prepared for the devil and his angels, which my Father hath prepared.” And John says, “Without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever maketh and loveth a lie; for your part is in the hell of fire.” And in like manner also Esaias: “And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me. And their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be for a spectacle to all flesh.” – Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD, TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, Point 65)
Please note carefully how Hippolytus distinguishes between those from the ‘General Resurrection’ vs those from the ‘First Resurrection’ whilst discussing the Great White Throne of Judgment in the quote above:
How do I know that Hippolytus referred to the ‘General Resurrection’ when he quotes Daniel 12:2 above? To quote:
Hippolytus was one of the Church of Rome’s greatest early theologians according to The Catholic Encyclopedia. Notice what he wrote in the early third century:
“For concerning the GENERAL RESURRECTION and the kingdom of the saints, Daniel says: “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting [age-during] life, and some to shame and everlasting [age-during] contempt.” And Isaiah says: “The dead shall rise, and those in the tombs shall awake, and those in the earth shall rejoice.” And our Lord says: “Many in that [Last] Day shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live” (Hippolytus. On the End of the World, Chapter XXXVI. Excerpted from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 5. Edited by Alexander Roberts & James Donaldson. American Edition, 1886. Online Edition Copyright © 2005 by K. Knight).
Yes, Hippolytus himself referred to the hope which is NOT possible for others but the Christian dead ONLY (in 1 Thessalonians 4:13) to refer to the ‘First Resurrection’ or the ‘Resurrection of the Just only’ (tying up 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 17 to Revelation 20:4 – 6 & Luke 14:14) agreeing perfectly to our exegesis in obedience to 2 Peter 1:20 as well, as NO Prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, to quote:
” Concerning the RESURRECTION of the RIGHTEOUS, Paul also speaks thus in writing to the Thessalonians: “We would not have you to be ignorant concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive (and) remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice and trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive (and) remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” – Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD, TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, Point 66)
Yes, in the above:
The ‘RESURRECTION of the RIGHTEOUS’ (Luke 14:14) = 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 17 as Hippolytus himself quotes. Can you see the ‘Proper Context’? (Revelation 20:4 – 6 too).
An Important Comment: Is ‘ages of Ages’ forever?
In his ending of the Book above, Hippolytus adds the word ‘endless’ in front of the popular phrase ‘ages of Ages’ (e.g. as found in Revelation 20:10) proving by usage itself that the phrase ‘ages of Ages’ is NOT ‘forever and ever’ as popularly erred but rather to the ‘ages’ (subset) out of a larger total set of ‘Ages’ (universal set), to quote:
“… He will rejoice with them, glorifying the Father. To Him be the Glory unto the endless ages of the Ages. Amen.” – Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD, TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, Point 67)
So, Hippolytus adds the word ‘endless’ in front of the ‘popular ages of Ages phrase’ to signify that the Glory of Christ extends beyond the ‘ages of out of the Endless Larger Set of Ages’ – WITHOUT END.
Conclusion
Please note that only the ‘latter’ (NOT earliest authorities of doctrine opposed this Theology – Precedence settles the matter), to quote from the ‘much respected church historian Philip Schaff himself’:
“The most striking point in the eschatology of the ante-Nicene age is the prominent chiliasm, or millenarianism, that is the belief of a visible reign of Christ in glory on earth with the risen saints for a thousand years, before the general resurrection and judgement. It was indeed not the doctrine of the church embodied in any creed or form of devotion, but a widely current opinion of distinguished teachers, such as Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Methodius, and Lactantius, while Caius, Origen, Dionysius the Great, Eusebius (as afterwards Jerome and Augustin) opposed it.” (Schaff, Philip, History of the Christian Church, Volume 2. Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, p. 381)
‘I have only One Beautiful Story to tell and it’s not about me; It’s about Lord Jesus Christ’
There is a Story at the Heart ♥ of the Bible in each and every Prophet of God, regarding the Saviour of the World, Lord Jesus Christ Reconciling All Created Things back to Himself eventually to Restore All Creation again.
“whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of a restitution of all things, of which God spake through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age.” – apostle Peter (Acts 3:21, YLT)
I repeat again, [with emphasis], please consider:
“whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive [Lord Jesus Christ] till times [Ephesians 1:9 – 10] of a Restitution [Restoration, Colossians 1:20] of all [Created] things [Colossians 1:16], of which God spake through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age.” – apostle Peter (Acts 3:21, YLT)
P/S: Christ the Incomparable Majestic Saviour of the World, The No. 1 where there is NO no. 2.
‘I have heard all the stories, I have seen all the signs … I have seen all the glory and tasted all that’s fine … (But), Nothing Compares to the Greatness of Knowing You, Lord’ – Third Day (Lyrics in their song titled ‘Nothing Compares’)
Peace to you
Aeons of the Aeons – ages of Ages – St. Irenaeous of Lyons on the Eternal Age Heresy
The Koine Greek phrase translated as ‘forever and ever’ is more literally and accurately ‘ages of Ages’ or ‘aeons of Aeons’ (transliterated) as it is found say in Revelation 20:10 as follows:
“and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night — to the ages of the ages.” (Revelation 20:10, YLT)
What does it mean?
The Devil will be tormented to the ‘ages’ (subset) out of the Larger Total Set of ‘Ages’ (Universal Set). This is what is ‘literally’ Written in Holy Scripture and Colossians 1:16 (Definition of ‘all created things’ including the Devil) hints ‘inclusively’ that even the Devil has a possibility of ‘two way Reconciliation post afterlife Judgment in the Lake of Fire which destroys his evil nature first – as part of the All [Created] Things’ (as it is mentioned just 4 Verses later, in Context with this same Topic in Colossians 1:20).
1) Gnosticism
The root word for ‘aeon’ or ‘eon’ (transliterated) or ‘age’ (its translation in English – singular) is the ‘same root word’ existing in say Matthew 25:46 (hence age-during chastisement & not ‘everlasting punishment’ is meant in this Verse).
*Whenever ‘age’ (singular) vs ‘ages’ (plural) is mentioned in this write up, it refers to the Koine Greek’s ‘aion or aions’ or ‘its equivalent compounds’ only (unless specified otherwise).
In Early Christianity, church leaders (such as St. Irenaeous of Lyons) fought against the Greek errors of Gnosticism. This is especially evident in Irenaeous infamous book titled ‘Against Heresies’.
In Book I, Irenaeous discusses the errors of various gnostic sects of assigning ‘names & wrongly thinking that the ages (Aeons) are some kind of beings’. We know that God created the ‘Ages’ (Aeons – Time periods) for His Purpose as evidenced in Verses below:
“according to a Purpose of the Ages, which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord,” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 3:11, YLT)
Understanding the concept of ‘Ages’ (Aeons) is important to ‘our faith’ as it is mentioned even in the Infamous Hall of Fame of Faith chapter (Hebrews 11):
“by faith we understand the Ages to have been prepared by a saying of God, in regard to the things seen not having come out of things appearing;” – Anonymous (Hebrews 11:3, YLT)
Several Chapters in the free downloadable e-book titled ‘Saviour of the World’ (pdf in link below) explains the concept of ages Biblically with Verses.
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/christian-ebook/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/download/5975/
2) Hippolytus (170–235 AD) – Presbyter of Rome
At the end of his book discussing ‘Christ vs the antichrist’, Hippolytus of Rome (an early authority of doctrine who wrote in Greek) uses the phrase ‘ages of Ages’ as follows:
“… He will rejoice with them, glorifying the Father. To Him be the Glory unto the endless ages of the Ages. Amen.” – Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD, TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, Point 67)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/hippolytus-christ.html
It is clear that the word ‘endless’ (please note this ‘carefully’) placed in front of the phrase ‘ages of Ages’ (or aeons of Aeons) in the above itself signifies that the phrase ‘ages of Ages’ by itself does NOT mean ‘forever and ever at all’. Indeed,
ages of Ages = signifies a duration of a limited time to a specific ‘ages’ out of the Total ‘Ages’ being spoken of. This time period being referred to here is only the ‘ages’ (subset) out of the ‘Ages’ (larger set) which proves that the ‘ages’ itself is NOT eternal as it is contained within the larger set of ‘Ages’.
Yes, ‘ages’ (time period) < 'Ages' (larger time period) ---> proving that ‘ages’ into which the punishment of the Devil is to last (Revelation 20:10) is NOT eternal.
Also, Hippolytus’ Writing shows that the phrase ‘endless ages of Ages’ —> ‘exists’ and is different —> and may be translated as ‘forever and ever’ but such a phrase is NEVER used in the Bible to denote the duration of any afterlife Judgment or Punishment at all.
‘endless ages of Ages’ = forever and ever (only because of the ‘addition’ of the word ‘endless’ in front of it) = refers to a specific series of ‘endless ages’ which goes on and on.
If I may illustrate this as follows it may be clearer (let’s call the ages to come, as per Ephesians 2:7 be AGE2, AGE3, etc. – the current age, Matthew 13:49 being called AGE1):
‘ages of Ages’ in Revelation 20:10 = ‘AGE2, AGE3, … AGE(n)’ (we do not know into how many future ages this punishment will last but the ‘plural – future ages’ indicates at least to AGE2 & AGE3)
Suppose that the Devil’s punishment in Revelation 20:10 is to last till the n-th age, called AGE(n) in the above, where n >= 3.
‘endless ages of Ages’ in Hippolytus writing above = ‘AGE2, AGE3, … AGE(n), AGE(n+1), AGE(n+2), AGE(n+3), … AGE(k)…’
as k (tends to) —> infinity.
For accuracy in exegesis with rigor, we ought to differentiate the meaning of the phrases ‘ages of Ages’ vs ‘endless ages of Ages’ as illustrated above. To claim that it’s the ‘same’ would cause us to miss ‘fine details’ & ‘miss the intention of Scripture as well as the wisdom’ from these ‘earliest authorities of doctrine’.
3) St. Irenaeous of Lyons (160-202 AD) – Bishop of Lugdunum in Gaul, then a part of the Roman Empire (now Lion, France)
All translations of Irenaeous’ Against Heresies are from link below unless specified otherwise:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html
Is it a heresy to use the phrase ‘aeons of the Aeons?’
Irenaeous reveals that it is NOT heresy to use the ‘same phrase’ —> ‘ages of Ages’ or ‘aeons of the Aeons’ but only that we should NOT refer to the ‘aeons’ as some sort of ‘living creature or beings’ as the Gnostics did but take it just as a ‘Time Period only’.
“… Paul also, they [Gnostic-heretics] affirm, very clearly and frequently names these Aeons, and even goes so far as to preserve their order, when he [apostle Paul] says, “To all the generations of the Aeons of the Aeon.” Nay, we ourselves, when at the giving of thanks we pronounce the words, “To Aeons of Aeons”, do set forth these Aeons. And, in fine, wherever the words Aeon or Aeons occur, they at once refer them to these beings.” (St. Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter 3:1)
I removed the translator’s addition of (forever and ever) – yes, which was added by the translator (his bias) and kept the above to Irenaeous’ translated words with [my emphasis in brackets]. Please compare with the translation in the provided link should you wish to ‘compare’ and ‘see’.
Please note carefully that Irenaeous affirms that we affirm the existence of these ‘Aeons’ or ‘Ages’ (and we do NOT deny it) —> as his phrase ‘we ourselves, … “To Aeons of Aeons”, do set forth these Aeons’.
Thus Irenaeous is conclusively admitting and proving in his own words that we also believe in the existence of ‘one age after the other’ (i.e. one aeon after the other) except that we do NOT think of the ‘Ages or Aeons’ as ‘living beings of some sort’ as the ‘Gnostics erred’.
Can you see it?
4) Irenaeous fought the Perversion of the Concept of Ages of Aeons
Example: Irenaeous called Tatian (a favourite theologian to some ‘eternal Hell’ scholars) a HERETIC – surprised?:
“A certain man named Tatian first introduced the blasphemy. He was a hearer of Justin’s, and as long as he continued with him he expressed no such views; but after his martyrdom he separated from the Church, and, excited and puffed up by the thought of being a teacher, as if he were superior to others, he composed his own peculiar type of doctrine. He invented a system of certain INVISIBLE AEONS, like the followers of Valentinus; while, like Marcion and Saturninus, he declared that marriage was nothing else than corruption and fornication. But his denial of Adam’s salvation was an opinion due entirely to himself.” (St. Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter XXVIII:1)
5) The ‘Eternal Age’ Heresy
Claiming that an ‘aeon or age is eternal’ may be a HERESY.
Really?
Yes, please consider ‘Irenaeous own words below’ where he points to the ‘specific HERESY’ of calling ‘(any) aeon or age to be eternal’ (example: don’t our popular Bible translations call the ‘next age, or next aeon’ eternal as implied in their translations of Matthew 12:32 with Matthew 25:46?)
” Besides those, however, among these heretics who are Simonians, and of whom we have already spoken, a multitude of Gnostics have sprung up, and have been manifested like mushrooms growing out of the ground. I now proceed to describe the principal opinions held by them. Some of them, then, set forth a certain Aeon who never grows old, and exists in a virgin spirit: him they style Barbelos. They declare that somewhere or other there exists a certain father who cannot be named, and that he was desirous to reveal himself to this Barbelos. Then this Ennoea went forward, stood before his face, and demanded from him Prognosis (prescience). But when Prognosis had, [as was requested, ] come forth, these two asked for Aphtharsia (incorruption), which also came forth, and after that Zoe Aionios (age-during life). Barbelos, glorying in these, and contemplating their greatness, and in conception [thus formed], rejoicing in this greatness, generated light similar to it. … ” (St. Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter XXIX:1)
I repeat the above, please note the following ‘heresy, carefully’:
“… heretics … multitude of Gnostics … Some of them, then, set forth a certain Aeon who never grows old… these two asked for Aphtharsia (incorruption), which also came forth, and after that Zoe Aionios (age-during life) … ” (St. Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter XXIX:1)
Can you see it?
Firstly, please note that ‘Zoe Aionios’ is a similar phrase to ‘age-during life’ (popularly translated as ‘eternal life’ in Matthew 25:46).
Irenaeous is contending that the ‘Gnostic heretics’ are the one who were popularizing the ‘new idea’ that there is a ‘certain Aeon’ or ‘certain Age’ —-> ‘which never grows old’ (i.e. is ‘eternal’). Shocked?
Notice that the ‘Aeon which never grows old’ —-> is said to have been equivalent to have attained ‘Aphtharsia (incorruption)’ which is IMMORTALITY (as this word is different and is found in 1 Corinthians 15) —-> meaning so clearly that there is NO such thing as an ‘eternal age’ but that ‘each age has both a beginning and end’ (being time periods, implied).
Yes, the Gnostic heretics are the ones who introduced the concept of an ‘eternal age’ which ‘never grows old’ as they say, it has attained ‘Aphtharsia (incorruption or immortality)’. The rest is their ‘story telling’ with ‘fabled beings representing these ages or aeons’.
It doesn’t end there as these Gnostics tried further to ‘corrupt’ the Biblical Concept of ‘Zoe Aionios’ (as it’s found in Matthew 25:46) by claiming that ‘Zoe Aionios’ (this ‘aeon or age’) also seeked out to be ‘eternal’ by requesting this ‘Aphtharsia (incorruption or immortality)’ likewise.
Isn’t it crisp clear from this discussion in ‘Irenaeous’ own words’ that ‘Zoe Aionios’ (in Matthew 25:46) too only means ‘age-during life which is NOT endless NOR Immortal’ but that the Gnostics invented a ‘fable story’ to show ‘how Zoe Aionios’ could itself become eternal?
Yes, by usage and etymology itself it is evident here that ‘Zoe Aionios’ (Matthew 25:46) only refers to age-during life and that’s why the Gnostic error tried to be ‘smarter’ by inventing a ‘fabled story’ to show ‘how this Zoe Aionios may have attained Immoratlity (Aphtharsia) so that their converts may be ‘swayed to this’ so called ‘hidden truth’.
In light of all this, our ‘popular Christianity’ which preaches or translates ‘Zoe Aionios’ to mean ‘eternal life’ instead of ‘age-during life’ may be guilty of following the Gnostic error in this concept (minus the ‘fable stories’). An Irony indeed.
The Bible Teaches that ONLY God has ‘Deathless-ness’ (athanasian) being Immortal and that His Power to sustain the rest of things is to the ‘age (aeon) only’ so that ‘NONE of the current things will last eternally’ (can you see the real meaning and purpose of His ‘age-during Power’?) as these ‘former things’ will eventually pass away (and NOT last forever, Isaiah 65:17, Revelation 21:4):
“Who [God] only is having Immortality [Athanasian], dwelling in light unapproachable, whom no one of men did see, nor is able to see, to whom is honour and might age [aeon]-during! Amen.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 6:16, YLT)
Yes, God’s Power or Honour is ‘highlighted’ (NOT limited) to the ‘age (aeon)’ in Holy Scripture because these ‘created things’ are to last to ‘that particular age (aeon) only’ – an incredible accuracy in Inspired Writing pointing to this Truth. In like manner, God of Israel does NOT mean that He is the God for Israel only but is highlighted thus for ‘His Specific Purposes toward them’ (Romans 3:29).
For example, God’s Power is highlighted as ‘His age-during Power’ (in 1 Timothy 6:16), because it refers to the current ‘created things’ lasting only ’till the end of this age only’ after which the ‘fire will consume it’ (2 Peter 3:7 – 10) and a New Heavens and a New Earth will be Made thereafter (2 Peter 3:13).
6) Incorruptible Aeon
The heresy of the ‘incorruptible aeon’ or ‘immortal age’ is stated in the Gnostic sect’s heresy below (please note this phrase carefully):
“The father and son thus both had intercourse with the woman (whom they also call the mother of the living). When, however, she could not bear nor receive into herself the greatness of the lights, they declare that she was filled to repletion, and became ebullient on the left side; and that thus their only son Christ, as belonging to the right side, and ever tending to what was higher, was immediately caught up with his mother to form an INCORRUPTIBLE AEON.” (St. Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter XXX:2)
Also, Irenaeous calles the concept of an ‘INCORRUPTIBLE AEON’ —> as an ‘OPINION’ in the below:
“… For he will not now possess holy souls to send them down again into the world, except those only which are of his substance, that is, those into which he has breathed. But the consummation [of all things] will take place, when the whole besprinkling of the spirit of light is gathered together, and is carried off to form an INCORRUPTIBLE AEON. Such are the OPINIONS which prevail among these persons, by whom, like the Lernaean hydra, a many-headed beast has been generated from the school of Valentinus.” (St. Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter XXX:14 – 15)
Yes, please note ‘carefully’ that St. Irenaeous of Lyons does NOT acknowledge ‘a different version’ of the concept of an INCORRUPTIBLE (or Eternal, Immortal) AEON’ in his discussion in his book above (as you may read it in ‘full’ and ‘realize’ it too) —-> which is greatly in contrast to the ‘concept of Aeons or Ages’ as illustrated in Point 3 earlier of which HE ACKNOWLEDGED it to be THEOLOGICALLY CORRECT (and we preach this ‘same’ Biblical concept only). This is an important and irrefutable point, can you see it?
The phrase ‘Incorruptible Aeon’ (which is their theological point in this, while the rest being ‘some dirty blasphemous story telling of Gnostic sects) itself points to the Greek Word ‘Aeon or Age in English’ to mean an ‘unknown or limited time period only but NOT forever’.
Indeed, because the Greek Word ‘Aeon’ by itself only means ‘age’ (a limited unknown time period), the efforts of the Gnostics is clear in that they tried to make up ‘strange stories’ to ‘make a particular Aeon or Age, say ‘Zoe Aionios’ or others by assigning names or ‘beings to them’ —> to make it ‘Immortal or Incorruptible’ which is a form of Idolatry (conceptually) as it challenges God Alone Who has Pure Immortality or Deathless-ness, ‘Athanasian’ —> while the rest of creation is only endowed with ‘age (aeon)-during endurance’ by His Power —-> as 1 Timothy 6:16 Majestically Declares —-> since He did NOT give any creation Immortality yet (which is chiefly reserved for His Bride post Resurrection only – 1 Corinthians 15 with Revelation 20:4 – 6 & Luke 20:35 – 36 as well).
Can you understand the Incredible Accuracy of Holy Scripture and how our Proper exegesis to Understanding the Greek Word Aeon or Age is Important to Give Glory to God Alone?
7) Did St. Irenaeous of Lyons teach Universal Restoration?
They did not explicitly discuss afterlife Judgment & Restoration thereafter in detail (as they didn’t reach to discuss the Doctrine of Apocatastasis – speaking of Hippolytus & say Justin) as their writings which survived did not discuss the Universal Salvation Bible Verses (from which ‘only’ we may conclude).
He must not have taught differently from Irenaeous being his disciple.
Irenaeous of Lyons reveals that he knows it (though they don’t like to speak of it ‘easily’ in order to obey the Command to ‘not cast pearls to swine’ – Matthew 7:6), to quote (rarely known):
Schaff admits that the opinions of Irenaeus are doubtful from his (Schaff’s) orthodox standpoint and says: 12 “In the fourth Pfaffian fragment ascribed to him (Stieren I, 889) he says that ‘Christ will come at the end of time to destroy all evil—-and to reconcile all things– from Col. i:20–that there may be an end of all impurity.’
Conclusion
Yes, Irenaeous himself just proved that the LITERAL translation of ‘ages of Ages’ is CORRECT and that it refers to ‘ages or aeons’ out of a total (or larger) subset of ‘Ages or Aeons’ in his own words above proving that ‘our Biblical exegesis’ is ‘right and accurate’ as claimed & is NOT a heresy in any way.
Please think ‘carefully’ before calling me a ‘heretic’ because by St. Irenaeous of Lyons’ quote above ‘in his own words’ itself (I repeat) points to ‘anyone claiming an eternal age or the existence of an eternal aion’ to be a ‘heretic’. Precedence in authority of doctrine settles the matter since no matter which bishop one may quote (numerous as they may be), they are NOT before Irenaeous NOR an authority of doctrine comparable to him.
The “endless ages of Ages part” never refers to a duration of any punishment.
Also, Irenaeous is clearly rejecting the “eternal age idea” (by some Gnostics) and is affirming the “order of ages idea” (one age after the other, as some Gnostics taught rightly but erred on other serious points such as thinking that the ‘Aeon or age’ is a ‘living being’ etc.).
P/S: Who is the ‘possible Heretic’ now?
Anyone preaching ‘eternal life’ using the ‘Zoe Aionios’ found in Matthew 25:46 have a higher chance of being considered a ‘Gnostic heretic’ (since they alluded to this concept likewise first while Irenaeous did NOT) as described above. In light of all this, —> Hey, you guys may be ‘the Gnostic heretics of some sort’ unknown to yourselves too, congratulations.
May God have Mercy on whom He Wills despite our ‘theological errors’ too (Romans 9:15 – 16).
I will believe the ‘real authority in Biblical Koine Greek’ and ‘Doctrine’ —> St. Irenaeous of Lyons. Yes, Hippolytus was said to be a disciple (or hearer) of Irenaeous too.
Some things only make sense ‘retrospectively’:
“For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 1:19, 26 – 29, KJV)
“Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.” – God Speaks (in Isaiah 29:14, KJV)
“For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 3:19, KJV)
Peace to you.
Final Afterlife Judgment – Plato & Justin Martyr – Two Deaths Two Resurrections for the Wicked
1) Did Plato Understand afterlife Judgment Concept Correctly in accordance to the Prophets of the Bible?
Justin Martyr clearly describes the ‘Near Death Hell-like experience’ attributed to Plato’s knowledge to be similar and in agreement to the Prophets too —-> in that even toward the ‘most wicked’ men (though severe & serious) —–> it lasts only till the ‘full penalty’ after which they ‘may ascend’ (which seems to refer to the Hope of Resurrection – to be ‘made Alive in Christ’ inferred from 1 Corinthians 15:22 as a “HOPE” toward the Wicked too, Acts 24:15 as part and puzzle beyond the afterlife Judgment to the ‘last Penny’ which must be endured by these first – Luke 12:59).
Here’s is Justin’s writing on that:
“And in the tenth book he plainly and manifestly wrote what he had LEARNED from the PROPHETS about the JUDGMENT, not as if he had learned it from them, but, on account of his fear of the Greeks, AS IF he had heard it from a MAN who has been SLAIN in battle–for this story he thought fit to INVENT–and who, when he was about to be buried on the twelfth day, and was lying on the FUNERAL pile, CAME to LIFE AGAIN, and DESCRIBED the OTHER WORLD.
The following are his every words: “For he said that he was present when one was asked by another person where the great Ardiaeus was. This Ardiaeus had been prince in a certain city of Pamphylia, and had killed his aged father and his elder brother, and done many other unhallowed deeds, as was reported. He said, then that the person who was asked said: He neither comes nor ever will come hither.
For we SAW, among other TERRIBLE SIGHTS, this also. When we were dose to the MOUTH [of the PIT], and were about to return to the upper air, and had suffered everything else, we suddenly beheld both him and others likewise, most of whom were tyrants.
But there were also some private SINNERS who had committed GREAT CRIMES. And these, when they thought they were to ASCEND, the MOUTH would NOT PERMIT, but bellowed when any of those who were so INCURABLY WICKED attempted to ASCEND, UNLESS they had PAID the FULL PENALTY.
Then fierce men, fiery to look at, stood close by, and hearing the din,s took some and led them away; but Ardiaeus and the rest, having bound hand and foot, and striking their heads down, and flaying, they dragged to the road outside, tearing them with thorns, and signifying to those who were present the cause of their suffering these things, and that they were leading them away to cast them into Tartams. Hence, he said, that amidst all their various fears, this one was the greatest, lest the MOUTH should bellow when they ASCENDED, since if it were silent each one would most gladly ASCEND; and that the punishments and torments were such as these, and that, on the other hand, the rewards were the reverse of these.”
Here PLATO seems to me to have LEARNT from the PROPHETS not only the DOCTRINE of the JUDGMENT, but also of the RESURRECTION, which the Greeks refuse to believe. For his saying that the soul is judged along with the body, proves nothing more clearly than that he believed the doctrine of the resurrection. Since how could Ardiaeus and the rest have undergone such PUNISHMENT in HADES, had they left on earth the body, with its head, hands, feet, and skin? For certainly they will never say that the soul has a head and hands, and feet and skin. But Plato, having fallen in with the testimonies of the prophets in Egypt, and having accepted what they teach concerning the resurrection of the body, teaches that the soul is judged in company with the body.” – Justin Martyr (CHAPTER XXVII – PLATO’S KNOWLEDGE OF THE JUDGEMENT, JUSTIN’S HORTATORY ADDRESS TO THE GREEKS)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-hortatory.html
2) Did Earliest Christianity Understand that the Wicked has Two Deaths followed by Two Resurrections?
First Death of the Wicked = ‘their earthly death’ where their soul separates from the body to go into Hades (Luke 16:19 – 31).
First Resurrection of the Wicked = the Wicked are Raised for Judgment during the GENERAL RESURRECTION with a ‘body + soul + spirit’ during the Final Lake of Fire or Gehenna Judgment (John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2, Revelation 20:11 – 15, Matthew 25:31 – 46).
Second Death of the Wicked = Only the ‘body + soul’ of the Wicked (which contained their sins) is Burnt away by the ‘Unquenchable Fires of Gehenna’ till ‘evil ceases to exist’ (i.e. ‘Destroyed’ (Matthew 10:28) giving them NO continuance in existence in this ‘state of body + soul which DIES permanently’ (but ‘their spirit lives to God first’ – 1 Peter 4:6, 1 Corinthians 5:5).
Second Resurrection for the Wicked = After their ‘body + soul is destroyed in the resurrected for Judgment body in Gehenna or the Lake of Fire’, the Wicked are ‘raised’ to life with ‘their spirit living to God’ earlier post this Final Judgment (1 Peter 4:6, 1 Corinthians 5:5) where these will be given a ‘spiritual body’ in a much lower glory sinless bodily resurrection as a HOPE toward them too (Acts 24:15) as Christ’s MAKING ALIVE part applies to ALL MEN (including the wicked too, 1 Corinthians 15:21 – 22) in its OWN ORDER of TIMES (implied in 1 Corinthians 15:23) according to God’s Decision freely (1 Corinthians 15:38 – 44).
Yes, Justin quotes the above in “support” of the Christian View of ‘Afterlife Judgment’ in agreement with the ‘Prophets’ too that it is NOT forever even for the ‘incurably wicked’ (Can you see it in the above?) but only till the last penny as Christ Taught in Luke 12:59 too, I repeat those phrases in the above pointing to this (below) for EMPHASIS:
“they thought they were to ASCEND, the MOUTH would NOT PERMIT, but bellowed when any of those who were so INCURABLY WICKED attempted to ASCEND, UNLESS they had PAID the FULL PENALTY.” (Doesn’t this point to Afterlife Judgment to be NOT forever but only till the last penny only in Justin Martyr understanding of Doctrine & Holy Scripture in regards to this Topic?)
Do consider ‘carefully’ that Justin refers to the ASCEND after enduring the ‘Full Penalty’ in the ‘Pit of the Other (afterlife) World in Hades’ —-> as the ‘SECOND RESURRECTION Hope for these Wicked’ which Plato learnt from the Prophets (agreeing to 1 Peter 3:18 – 20 with the same effect described in 1 Peter 4:6 in that post Judgment these will live to God in the spirit-state) —–> the Hope of the ‘Ascend or SECOND Resurrection’ being a real possibility only after Lord Jesus Christ Who is the Resurrection and the Life has been Manifested in the Flesh —-> this Hope is evidenced by Justin’s words as follows (from the above) ——> “Here PLATO seems to me to have LEARNT from the PROPHETS not only the DOCTRINE of the JUDGMENT, but also of the RESURRECTION” —> referring to the Second Resurrection as they only rise from this after their Final Judgment which must be ‘after their first resurrection for Judgment’ (John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2) in Gehenna or the Lake of Fire first (Matthew 10:28, ‘the dead’ in Revelation 20:11 – 15 & 1 Peter 4:5, the ‘goats’ in Matthew 25:31 – 46) —-> where these ASCEND (the only ascend spoken of Post-Judgment in this passage) —–> in “ASCEND, UNLESS they had PAID the FULL PENALTY.” —-> which is clearly referring to the HOPE of “ASCEND from the PIT (of Hades) toward these incurably wicked” but only after they had paid their “FULL PENALTY” (agreeing Perfectly to Luke 12:59 too).
Isn’t Justin’s discourse above ‘Deep Theology’?
Please note that Justin clearly emphasizes that this Final Judgment to happen in the “flesh” (body + soul) of the ‘wicked’ who are ‘resurrected for Judgment first’ (John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2 in a body + soul + spirit) pointing to such ‘similarities in aspect’ when it’s rightly presented in regards to this ‘Doctrine of Judgment’ in Greek mythology too.
As pointed out earlier, only the ‘body + soul’ of the wicked is to be destroyed in Gehenna (or Lake of Fire, Matthew 10:28) while these may ‘live in the spirit state first post this Judgment’ (1 Peter 4:6, 1 Corinthians 5:5) to get a suitable ‘sinless imperishable sinless spiritual body’ (of lower glory, as God Wills, 1 Corinthians 15:38 – 44) as the Hope of being ‘made Alive in Christ – part’ (1 Corinthians 15:21 – 22) which applies to ‘all men including the wicked too’ (Acts 24:15) —-> as these words in the write up below from Justin seem to point to a ‘Larger Hope’:
GLAD TIDINGS of a NEW and strange HOPE to MEN (Generally toward the wicked too, agreeing to Acts 24:15) —-> STRANGE and NEW thing for GOD to PROMISE that —-> He would NOT keep INCORRUPTION in INCORRUPTION, —–> but would make CORRUPTION INCORRUPTION.
Please note that the phrase ‘God would NOT keep INCORRUPTION in INCORRUPTION’ (in Justin’s words above) —-> challenges or refutes the popular idea that “incorruption or sinlesness is only for the holy ones” —-> because Justin continues and mentions further that —-> God “would make CORRUPTION INCORRUPTION” as well —> meaning that there is HOPE for the ‘corruption’ (wicked and sin laden ones to be set free too to being sinless again) —–> as this same Hope is echoed by apostle Paul in Romans 8:20 – 21 where the rest of Creation will share in this aspect/area together with the “Church, sons of God” (Romans 8:19) into being set free into sinlessness eventually —–> and this being ‘Born Again into sinlessness or incorruption’ is the “birth pangs” Promised to “All Creation ” eventually too (Romans 8:22).
3) Understanding the Doctrine of Apocatastasis or Restoration of All [Created] Things to be in Stages of TIMES
St. Irenaeous of Lyons clearly writes (in ‘Against Heresies’, last chapters in Book 5) quoting The 1000 years Millennial Reign as the Beginning of the Creation being set free from sin (quoting Romans 8:20 – 21) as well likewise toward the First Resurrection on the Seventh or Last Day of this Current AGE1 (Revelation 20:4 – 6, Romans 8:19).
We understand that it’s not limited to Creation at that time only (which is the beginning of the Promised Renewal in Romans 8:20 – 21) but also that this “being set free into the liberty of being sinless” is Promised toward “All Creation” too which awaits “in birth pangs” till it takes place for each of the all to partake of this “incorruption” eventually (as Prophesied Majestically in Romans 8:22 as well).
4) Did Justin Martyr write the above by knowing a Larger Hope which is inclusive of ALL MEN Generally?
Yes, please consider the write up below from Justin regarding the “Resurrection” which seems to point to this ‘Larger Hope’ of ‘being clothed in an incorruptible body’ (hence sinless body) as the Final Effect of Lord Jesus Christ’s Resurrection toward ‘all men Generally’ agreeing to this exegesis with ‘his own words’:
” then the Saviour said this, and proclaimed salvation to the soul alone, what new thing, beyond what we heard from Pythagoras and Plato and all their band, did He bring us? But now He has come proclaiming the GLAD TIDINGS of a NEW and strange HOPE to MEN.
For indeed it was a STRANGE and NEW thing for GOD to PROMISE that He would NOT keep INCORRUPTION in INCORRUPTION, but would make CORRUPTION INCORRUPTION.
But because the prince of wickedness could in no other way corrupt the truth, he sent forth his apostles (evil men who introduced pestilent doctrines), choosing them from among those who crucified our Saviour; and these men bore the name of the Saviour, but did the works of him that sent them, through whom the name itself has been spoken against.” – Justin Martyr (CHAPTER X.–THE BODY SAVED, AND WILL THEREFORE RISE, FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-resurrection.html
Truly God’s Judgments are Righteous:
“… And being present at His judicial decision, all, both MEN and ANGELS and DEMONS, shall utter one voice, saying, “RIGHTEOUS is Thy JUDGMENT.” … since to those who have done well shall be assigned righteously eternal (age-during) bliss, and to the lovers of iniquity shall be given eternal (age-during) punishment. . And the fire which is un-quenchable and without end awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which dieth not, and which does not waste the body, but continues bursting forth from the body with unending pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no voice of interceding friends will profit them …” – Hippolytus of Rome (AGAINST PLATO, ON THE CAUSE OF THE UNIVERSE, Point 3)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/hippolytus-dogmatical.html
5) Are the DRAGONS and SOULS of the DEAD in the afterlife abodes of the SHADOW of DEATH regions?
How can Hippolytus of Rome mention that even the DEMONS —> will utter ‘RIGHTEOUS is Thy JUDGMENT’?
Please consider the Verse below and note the word ‘DRAGONS’ (literally) which may point to DEMONS —> who are Prophetically said to HONOUR GOD as well eventually:
“The beast of the field shall HONOUR ME, the DRAGONS [‘tan·nîm’] and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to My people, My chosen.” – God Speaks (in Isaiah 43:20, KJV)
Some translations ‘change’ the ‘literal meaning of Dragon’ in the above which is the Hebrew Word ‘tan·nîm’ which also occurs in passages such as Isaiah 27:1 (i.e. ‘the DRAGON’ in the Sea) pointing to SATAN himself (Revelation 20:2, Revelation 12:9) and more literally in Hebrew (the exact word) in Psalm 44:19 which describes the ‘afterlife abodes of the SHADOW of DEATH regions in which the SOULS of the DEAD are as St. Irenaeous revealed in his writing’ to whom, He said, CHRIST went there too (to Preach the Gospel, 1 Peter 3:18 – 20), to quote:
“If, then, the Lord observed the law of the dead, that He might become the first-begotten from the dead, and tarried until the third day “in the lower parts of the earth” [Eph. 4:9] ; then afterwards rising in the flesh, so that He even showed the print of the nails to His disciples [John 20:20, 27], He thus ascended to the Father; [if all these things occurred, I say], how must these men not be put to confusion, who allege that “the lower parts” refer to this world of ours, but that their inner man, leaving the body here, ascends into the super-celestial place? For as the Lord “WENT AWAY in the midst of the SHADOW of DEATH” [Ps. 23:4], WHERE the SOULS of the DEAD were, yet afterwards arose in the body, and after the resurrection was taken up [into heaven], it is manifest that the SOULS of HIS DISCIPLES also, upon whose account the Lord underwent these things, SHALL GO away into the INVISIBLE PLACE allotted to them by God, and THERE REMAIN until the RESURRECTION, awaiting that event; then RECEIVING THEIR BODIES, and rising in their entirety, that is bodily, just as the Lord arose, they shall come thus into the presence of God.” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XXXI:2).
Source: http://www.regels.org/Irenaeus-Millennarism.htm
Do note these phrases from the above by Irenaeous (‘not’ my opinion) ‘carefully’ to realize this ‘often missed Truth in popular exegesis’:
(i) The SHADOW of DEATH Regions are where the SOULS of the DEAD are
“For as the Lord “WENT AWAY in the midst of the SHADOW of DEATH” [Ps. 23:4], WHERE the SOULS of the DEAD were” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XXXI:2)
Is Salvation Possible in these SHADOW of DEATH Regions toward these SOULS? Yes by Lord Jesus Christ the Messiah:
Example Verses:
“There were those who dwelt in darkness and in the SHADOW of DEATH, Prisoners in misery and chains,
Because THEY had REBELLED against the words of God And spurned the counsel of the Most High.
Therefore He humbled their heart with labor;They stumbled and there was none to help.
Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble; He SAVED them out of their distresses.
He brought THEM OUT of DARKNESS and the SHADOW of DEATH and broke their bands apart.
Let them give thanks to the Lord for His loving KINDNESS, and for His WONDERS to the sons of MEN!” (Psalm 107:10-15, NASB)
The DARKNESS (“Outer Darkness”, Matthew 8:12) and SHADOW of DEATH (Job 38:17) here refers to the AFTERLIFE Prisons and punishment Regions of Sheol/Hades which we may call as HELL.
More Details regarding this Topic of the Rarely known ‘SHADOW of DEATH’ Mystery in Holy Scripture, please consider ‘more Verses’ in links below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/hells-missed-messianic-prophecy-shadow-of-death/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/afterlife-salvation-mysteries/
(ii) What happens to believers in faith when we die?
This is the meaning of ‘rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord’ (2 Corinthians 5:8) and ‘raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus’ (in Ephesians 2:6) as apostle Paul Wrote:
“SOULS of HIS DISCIPLES also, upon whose account the Lord underwent these things, SHALL GO away into the INVISIBLE PLACE allotted to them by God, and THERE REMAIN until the RESURRECTION” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XXXI:2)
(iii) What is the meaning of Resurrection?
The SOUL (with spirit) RECEIVING a BODY (i.e. ‘the Redemption of the Body’ as apostle Paul called it in Romans 8:23):
“awaiting that EVENT [i.e. the First Resurrection]; then RECEIVING THEIR BODIES, and rising in their entirety, that is bodily, just as the Lord arose, they shall come thus into the Presence of God.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XXXI:2)
Returning to Hippolytus’ writing earlier:
Please note that the ‘the fire which is un-quenchable and without end’ in the above as stated by Hippolytus refers to its ‘continual burning’ (be it a literal fire or spiritual fire or a mixture of both) to the “age, age-during” (as pointed out in earlier discussions that the Greek word used pertains to the age-singular or ages-plural respectively).
6) Isn’t it Finished?
A Popular Fallacy in Christian Universalism is to ‘assume’ that the Phrases ‘It is Finished’ or ‘It is Done’ means that ‘It has all come to pass’ where in Truth these are PROPHETICALLY Stated as the Requirement for Lord Jesus Christ to Die on His Cross First and Shed His BLOOD was the NECESSARY Secret which makes the Rest of Scripture to be Fulfilled eventually (without a any possibility of being stopped – Matthew 5:17 – 19,
Here’s an Explanation in the Context of Universal Reconciliation of ALL CREATED THINGS (Colossians 1:16) back to Him eventually by His BLOOD (please note the Word BLOOD in Colossians 1:20) which Makes ALL THINGS POSSIBLE by God (Luke 1:37) in the CONTEXT of SALVATION as echoed by the Question ‘who then can be saved?’ (Matthew 19:25 – 26).
Please consider (these Scriptural Details – with Verses):
All Things New – What is the meaning of ‘It is Finished’ or ‘It is Done’?
Lord Jesus Christ’s Finished Work is stated Prophetically at the Cross (John 19:30). It doesn’t mean that after His Resurrection ‘sin ceased to exist in the world’ and there is NO more say final Judgment in the Lake of Fire (for example).
In Revelation 21:6 we find the similar phrase ‘It is Done!’ where it’s Written in the Context of God making ‘All [Created] things New’ (Revelation 21:5).
Yes, ‘It is Done/Finished’ in Revelation 21:6 points to the ‘former things’ (including this current earth with the sea to have ceased to exist, Revelation 21:4) and a ‘New earth with NO sea to be have been created’ (Revelation 21:1) together with the New Jerusalem to have Descended from the New Heaven upon the New Earth (Revelation 21:2) —> where NONE of these have occurred yet (Proving that these Statements are Prophetic in nature).
‘It is Done’ in Revelation 21:6 also points to God Dwelling among Men (visibly – implied, in Revelation 21:3) with ‘mourning, or crying, or pain; or the first things having passed away, or ceased to exist’ (Revelation 21:4) which has NOT occurred yet either.
Also, ‘It is Finished’ in Revelation 21:6 points to the ‘thirsty ones’ being able to drink from the Water of Life (which hasn’t occurred yet, it is literal & and ‘external drinking’, Revelation 22:17) and is NOT referring to the ‘internal spiritual drink’ which believers or His Bride drinks (John 7:38) as to taste the powers of the age to come now (Hebrews 6:5) where His Bride or Overcomers inherit ‘All [Created] things’ (Revelation 21:7, Ephesians 1:22) which is in parallel to the ‘wicked’ having their ‘part in the Lake of Fire simultaneously’ (Revelation 21:8) —> where again, NONE of these Prophetic statement are done yet.
We find another similar phrase where Christ says that ‘His Work is Finished or Done/Accomplished’ (in John 17:4) which is Written in the Context of ‘age-during life’ (John 17:3) being given to ALL FLESH eventually (John 17:2) thereafter which Christ Prophetically echoes to Return to His Full Glory again (John 17:1, 5) which He ‘let go’ of Earlier (Philippians 2:6 – 7) Humbling Himself for Love’s Sake to Save the World (1 John 4:14) —> which is NOT Done yet for all as ALL FLESH is NOT Resurrected in a Body yet (So, this Statement again is Prophetic in assuring that Christ Will Accomplish ALL the Work of God).
The Verses above are in ‘Context’ in regards to the Meaning ‘It is Finished or It is Done’ (linking these together, John 19:30, Revelation 21:6, John 17:4 – Prophetically).
Yes, in the Context of Universal Reconciliation and Salvation too, the Infamous Prophecy of ALL [Created] THINGS to be Reconciled back to Him eventually (Colossians 1:16, 20 or 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28) is NOT Done yet either (as Hebrews 2:8 clearly Reveals) with NOTHING being left Un-subject to Him (meaning that there is NO Eternal Hell where evil can exist eternally – can you see it?) —> when that Happens (being FULFILLED – Matthew 5:17 – 18) in its OWN DIVINE TIMES APPOINTED for this ‘as it is Written’ (Ephesians 1:9 – 10, Acts 3:21, 1 Timothy 2:6) Proving again that these Verses are Prophetic.
Hence, Judgment is Real and though Salvation is a Free Gift of God, some only attain it after [afterlife] Judgment in the Lake of Fire (for the Wicked) first [as my post regarding this aspect titled ‘Final Afterlife Judgment – Plato & Justin Martyr’ reveals some ‘hidden things in parallel between Early Christianity and the Greek Stories] —-> and ‘our obedience toward God plays a role toward our reward or inheritance level in His Kingdom of the Heavens’ (as Matthew 5:19 implies in the Context of being ‘least vs greatest’ there).
P/S: Eternal Fire – has an End?
“Then, though thou art placed on earth, thou shalt behold that God liveth in heaven; then shalt thou begin to declare the mysteries of God; then shalt thou both love and admire those that are punished because they will not deny God; then shalt thou condemn the deceit and error of the world; when thou shalt perceive the true life which is in heaven, when
thou shalt despise the apparent death which is here on earth, when thou shalt fear the REAL DEATH, which is reserved for THOSE that shall be CONDEMNED to the ETERNAL FIRE that shall PUNISH those delivered over to it unto the END.” (Diognetus 10:7)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diognetus-lightfoot.html
How is it possible?
Firstly, it should be literally translated as “age-during fire” (a fire that lasts to the age), right?
Based on this, there are two possibilities:
(i) Age-during fire lasts a long time to the age (in maximum duration of sentencing) and not forever, hence the words:
“REAL DEATH, … THOSE … CONDEMNED to the ETERNAL (‘age-during’) FIRE … PUNISH those … unto the END”.
Or
(ii) Age-during fire causes the real death (or destruction to both body + soul only as per Matthew 10:28 at Gehenna or the Lake of Fire) and not forever, hence the words:
“REAL DEATH, … THOSE … CONDEMNED to the ETERNAL (‘age-during’) FIRE … PUNISH those … unto the END”.
They will live in the ‘spirit state’ post this ‘Judgment or Destruction in the flesh’ (where both ‘body + soul’ = ‘flesh’ may ‘die’ or be ‘destroyed’) as per 1 Peter 4:6 and 1 Corinthians 5:5 where the latter was prophetically spoken toward a backslider who was assumed to be unrepentant & destined for the Lake of Fire (Final Judgment, implied) when this Verse (in 1 Corinthians 5:5) was spoken toward him.
Yes, that ‘man’s spirit may still be saved in the particular Day of Lord Jesus (Time Period)’ where these may ‘live in the spirit state post afterlife Judgment accordingly’ despite Judgment in their flesh [body, soul or both] (as per 1 Peter 4:6, 1 Corinthians 5:5).
Existence of the – Ages to Come
“For this cause, yea and for all things, I praise Thee, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, through the eternal (age-during) and heavenly High-priest, Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, through whom with Him and the Holy Spirit be glory both now [and ever, age-during?] and for the AGES to COME. Amen.’.” (Polycarp 14:3, The Martyrdom of Polycarp)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/martyrdompolycarp-lightfoot.html
Christ is the (age-during) heavenly High-priest to the end of this AGE1 (and NOT forever) as described above (Polycarp 14:3) agreeing to Hebrews 7:17, 24 too because He makes Intercessions for ‘believers of faith (His Church, His Bride) only’ till the End of this age only (Hebrews 7:25) where we are Immortal and sinless in the next age for sure (hence Christ does NOT need to Perform those Intercessions for us anymore beyond this age, AGE1 – Can you see it? only sinners need a high priest to make intercessions for them, as the Current Role demands in Hebrews 7:24 – 25, Context).
“Ages to come” (Ephesians 2:7) and in Polycarp 14:3 too = AGE2, AGE3, …
An Edifying comment, in an earlier post I defined the “Ages” in ‘ages of Ages’ (e. g. in Revelation 20:10) as follows:
Ages (in Revelation 20:10) = AGE1, AGE2, AGE3, … AGE(k), … to infinity.
I labelled the ‘Ages’ (Universal Set) to begin from the ‘Current Age (AGE1)’ simply because God (Lord Jesus Christ) only became Flesh in this current AGE1 onwards.
The other possibility is that this Universal Set of “Ages” could include the “ages past” too (e. g. of a Verse proving its existence, Colossians 1:26) in which case, we could also allow the Definition of “Ages” to be the following or equivalent (with NO contradictions to our primarily ‘literal exegesis’ in any way):
Ages (in Revelation 20:10) = …, AGE(-1), AGE(0), AGE1, AGE2, AGE3, … AGE(k), … to infinity.
Where the phrase “ages past” (popularly translated thus in Colossians 1:26) = … AGE(-1), AGE(0) where the plural-ages here indicates at least two past ages before our current AGE1.
Indeed,
“I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 16:12, 33, NASB)
An Irony:
“For this reason also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute,” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 11:49, NASB)
“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 23:34, NASB)
The Difference?
We, the believers of Universal Reconciliation in Lord Jesus Christ NEVER Persecute NOR Kill anyone who disagrees with us. We let everyone have ‘their choice of belief’. The beast or antichrist will kill others too (the wolf kills the lamb and eats it – the lamb doesn’t persecute other lambs).
“But this happened so that the statement written in their law might be fulfilled: They HATED ME for NO REASON.” (John 15:25, CSB)
Truly:
“For nothing will be impossible with God.” – Archangel Gabriel in regards to Lord Jesus Christ Coming as God in Flesh (Luke 1:37, NASB)
Peace.
Aeons – Resurrection – Souls – Facts from St. Irenaeous of Lyons
1) Aeons – Are Aeons distinguishable from each other?
Whilst discussing a heresy of the gnostics, St. Irenaeous mentions the following:
“And besides; “the eternal [Aeonian, Age-during] fire which the Father has prepared for the devil and his angels,” -they ought to show of which of those Aeons that are above it is the image; for it, too, is reckoned part of the creation.” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter VII – Created Things are Not the Images of Those Aeons Who are Within the Pleroma, Point 3)
Please note carefully that Irenaeous is quoting the Verse in Matthew 25:41 where the same Greek singular-word “Aeon” (or Eon or ‘age’) occurs —> and puts the burden of the argument that the Gnostics ought to show ‘which of those Aeons that are above it is the image’ —> proving that the ‘Aeonion fire or age-during fire’ is for a particular “age” only, namely AGE2 in our write ups.
The heresy Irenaeous is discussing in this passage relates to some Gnostics’ claim that an ‘Aeon or Age’ is an ‘Image of some creation”.
Thus in relation to the ‘Punishment Aeon’ described in Matthew 25:41, St. Irenaeous is obviously ridiculing these Gnostics by asking them ‘which Image of Creation’ corresponds to being ‘fiery’ like that future Aeon or Punishment Age (AGE2)?
Since NO such ‘creation (or image) in fire exists’ as per ‘their hypothesis that each Aeon corresponds to a creation’, hence the Gnostic’s claim that an Aeon has a creation-mirror is a ‘false statement’ (implied by Irenaeous argument above).
By usage itself it is clear that St. Irenaeous looks at the next Aeon (singular – AGE2) referred to in Matthew 25:41 as distinguishable and is part of a subset of Aeons (plural) —> and that’s why he asks ‘which creation (past of present, implied) corresponds to the next Aeon, AGE2?’ (Implied) —> Meaning that Irenaeous does NOT see the ‘next age, AGE2’ as ‘eternal’ but as a ‘singular age/aeon only’ out of the larger set of ‘plural ages/aeons’ into which it belongs.
2) Souls – Afterlife Description
(i) Body Sleeps at Death and NOT the Soul
“… For as, when the body is asleep and at rest,… ” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXXIII.-Absurdity of the Doctrine of the Transmigration of Souls, Point 1)
(ii) The Rich Man and Lazarus Story is LITERAL
“The Lord has taught with very great fulness, that souls not only continue to exist, not by passing from body to body, but that they preserve the same form [in their separate state] as the body had to which they were adapted, and that they remember the deeds which they did in this state of existence, and from which they have now ceased,-in that narrative which is recorded respecting the rich man and that Lazarus who found repose in the bosom of Abraham.
In this account He states that Dives knew Lazarus after death, and Abraham in like manner, and that each one of these persons continued in his own proper position, and that [Dives] requested Lazarus to be sent to relieve him-[Lazarus], on whom he did not [formerly] bestow even the crumbs [which fell] from his table. [He tells us] also of the answer given by Abraham, who was acquainted not only with what respected himself, but Dives also, and who enjoined those who did not wish to come into that place of torment to believe Moses and the prophets, and to receive the preaching of Him who was to rise again from the dead.
By these things, then, it is plainly declared that souls continue to exist that they do not pass from body to body, that they possess the form of a man, so that they may be recognised, and retain the memory of things in this world; moreover, that the gift of prophecy was possessed by Abraham, and that each class of souls] receives a habitation such as it has deserved, even before the judgment.” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXXIV.-Souls Can Be Recognised in the Separate State, and are Immortal Although They Once Had a Beginning, Point 1)
4) The Righteous – Granted AUTOMATIC Continuance of Life to the ‘ages of Ages’ & beyond (implied).
“… So also any one who thinks thus respecting SOULS and SPIRITS, and, in fact, respecting all created things, will not by any means go far astray, inasmuch as all things that have been made had a beginning when they were formed, but endure as long as God wills that they should have an existence and continuance.
The prophetic Spirit bears testimony to these opinions, when He declares, “For He spake, and they were made; He commanded, and they were created: He hath established them for ever [the Aeon], yea, forever and ever [to the Aeons of the Aeons].”
And again, He thus speaks respecting the SALVATION of MAN: “He asked life of Thee, and Thou gavest him length of days for ever and ever [to the Aeons of the Aeons]; ” indicating that it is the Father of all who imparts continuance for ever and ever [to the Aeons of the Aeons] on THOSE who are SAVED.
For life does not arise from us, nor from our own nature; but it is bestowed according to the GRACE of GOD.
And therefore he who shall preserve the life bestowed upon him, and give thanks to Him who imparted it, shall receive also length of days for ever and ever [to the Aeons of the Aeons]…” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXXIV.-Souls Can Be Recognised in the Separate State, and are Immortal Although They Once Had a Beginning, first part of Point 3)
[my emphasis in brackets – guessing a little at which possible Greek Phrase or Aeon Compound might have occurred here as per the standard translation procedure – please note that even if any ‘Aeon compound words’ above are wrong, the ARGUMENT still HOLDS – Please read point 6 below to ‘realize’ this at the IRREFUTABLE level]
5) The Wicked – NOT Granted AUTOMATIC Continuance of Life to the ‘ages of Ages’ & beyond (implied).
“… But he who shall REJECT it, and prove himself UNGRATEFUL to his Maker, inasmuch as he has been created, and has not recognised Him who bestowed [the gift upon him], deprives himself of [the privilege of] continuance for ever and ever [to the Aeons of the Aeons].
And, for this reason, the Lord declared to those who showed themselves UNGRATEFUL towards Him: “If ye have not been faithful in that which is little, who will give you that which is great? ” indicating that those who, in this brief temporal life, have shown themselves ungrateful to Him who bestowed it, shall justly NOT RECEIVE from Him length of days for ever and ever [to the Aeons of the Aeons].” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXXIV.-Souls Can Be Recognised in the Separate State, and are Immortal Although They Once Had a Beginning, second part of Point 3)
6) The Eternal Life Heresy
NO Eternal Life is Granted in One Aeon or One Age – The Eternal Age Heresy – Understanding Immortality Correctly.
Body and Soul do NOT exist forever but are subject to God granting its existence from ‘age to age’ or ‘aeon to aeon’, that is from ‘one aeon to the next’:
” … But ALL THINGS which proceed from Him, WHATSOEVER have been MADE, and are made, do indeed receive their own beginning of generation, and on this account are INFERIOR to Him who formed them, inasmuch as they are not unbegotten. Nevertheless THEY ENDURE, and EXTEND their EXISTENCE into a LONG SERIES of AGES in accordance with the WILL of GOD their Creator; so that He GRANTS them that they should be thus formed at the beginning, and that they should so exist afterwards.” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXXIV.-Souls Can Be Recognised in the Separate State, and are Immortal Although They Once Had a Beginning, Point 2)
I repeat, please note these phrases ‘carefully’ from Irenaeous’ own words (NOT mine) which proves this claim Irrefutably for ‘Sound Doctrine’:
ALL THINGS which proceed from Him, WHATSOEVER have been MADE —> are INFERIOR to Him who formed them —> THEY ENDURE, and EXTEND their EXISTENCE —> into a LONG SERIES of AGES —-> [Ages or Aeons – Can you see the Plural ‘ages to come’ or ‘aeons to come’ theory true even for ‘future ages’ as per Ephesians 2:7?) —-> in accordance with the WILL of GOD their Creator, so that He GRANTS them.
This is an Important point to ‘Understanding Immortality Correctly’ as St. Irenaeous Beautifully explains above.
7) Immortality and the Resurrection for Sheepfold1 – His Bride (His Church) – the FIRST RESURRECTION
“And then the DOCTRINE concerning the RESURRECTION of bodies which we believe, will emerge true and certain [from their system]; since, [as we hold, ] God, when He resuscitates our MORTAL BODIES which PRESERVED RIGHTEOUSNESS, will render them INCORRUPTIBLE and IMMORTAL.
For God is superior to nature, and has in Himself the disposition [to show kindness], because He is good; and the ability to do so, because He is mighty; and the faculty of fully carrying out His purpose, because He is rich and perfect.” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXIX.-Refutation of the Views of the Heretics as to the Future Destiny of the Soul and Body, Point 2)
Please note that:
‘our MORTAL BODIES which PRESERVED RIGHTEOUSNESS’ = refers only to Sheepfold1, His Bride, His Church, i.e. ‘believers in Faith of Jesus Christ’ —-> will render them INCORRUPTIBLE and IMMORTAL (Revelation 20:4 – 6, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 17, Luke 20:35 – 36, Luke 14:14).
Peace to you.
General Judgment – A Possible Hope for non-Christians as well?
What is the General Judgment?
The Judgment which occurs on His Great White Throne on Judgment Day (Daniel 12:2, John 5:28 – 29, Matthew 25:31 – 46, Revelation 20:11 – 15).
Who are possibly Sheepfold2?
The righteous in Good Deeds (Works) who did NOT believe in Lord Jesus Christ during their earthly lives (John 10:16) but may have believed Him in the afterlife after seeing Him (John 6:40) or after hearing the Gospel there (1 Peter 4:6, John 3:14 – 15).
I have discussed it in some details in my post below citing the Shepherd of Hermas & Sadhu Sundar Singh’s visions of Hell for the existence of Sheepfold2:
1) Roman Catholic Church
Does the Catholic Church acknowledge that non-Christians may be Saved by the Mercy of Lord Jesus Christ during the “General Judgment”?
To Quote:
“The CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES that at the time of the LAST JUDGMENT Christ will come in His glory, and all the angels with him, and in his presence the truth of each man’s relationship with God will be laid bare, and each person who has ever lived will be judged with perfect justice with those believing in Christ (and the UNKNOWN NUMBER of the RIGHTEOUS IGNORANT of CHRIST’S TEACHING, but who MIGHT be MYSTERIOUSLY SAVED through by CHRIST’S ATONEMENT), GOING to EVERLASTING BLISS, and those who reject Christ going to everlasting condemnation.
At that time, all will be resurrected. Those who were in purgatory will have already been purged, meaning they would have already been released into Heaven, and so like those in Heaven and Hell will resurrect with their bodies.
Following the Last Judgment, the bliss of Heaven & Earth, as well as the pains of Hell will be perfected in that those present will also be capable of physical bliss/pain. After the Last Judgment the Universe itself will be renewed with a new Heaven and a new earth in the World to Come.
The Eastern Orthodox and Catholic teachings of the Last Judgment differ only on the exact nature of the in-between state of purgatory/Abraham’s Bosom. These differences may only be apparent and not actual due to differing theological terminology and tradition.” (Catholicism, Last Judgment – Wikipedia)
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Judgment
Hope for Sheepfold2?
Please note these words ‘carefully’ from the above:
The CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES that at the time of the LAST [General] JUDGMENT —-> and the UNKNOWN NUMBER of the RIGHTEOUS IGNORANT of CHRIST’S TEACHING ——> Sheepfold2 (John 10:16) —–> but who MIGHT be MYSTERIOUSLY SAVED —-> through by CHRIST’S ATONEMENT), —–> GOING to EVERLASTING [age-during] BLISS.
2) Eastern Orthodox Church
To Quote (from that same Wikipedia Source):
“Eastern Orthodoxy teaches that salvation is bestowed by God as a free gift of Divine grace, which cannot be earned, and by which forgiveness of sins is available to all.
However, the deeds done by each person are believed to affect how he will be judged, following the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats. How forgiveness is to be balanced against behavior is not well-defined in scripture, judgment in the matter being solely Christ’s.
Similarly, although ORTHODOXY TEACHES that salvation is obtained only through Christ and his Church, the FATE of THOSE OUTSIDE the CHURCH at the LAST JUDGMENT is left to the MERCY of GOD and is NOT DECLARED.” (Eastern Orthodoxy, Last Judgment – Wikipedia)
Hope for Sheepfold2?
Please note these words ‘carefully’ from the above:
ORTHODOXY TEACHES —-> that salvation is obtained only through Christ and his Church —-> the FATE of THOSE OUTSIDE the CHURCH —–> at the LAST JUDGMENT —–> is left to the MERCY of GOD and is NOT DECLARED.
Conclusion
This Hope remains valid as both the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches do not deny it either as some from among them also believed in it based on these same Bible Verses (quoted prior).
Heresies – Who is a Heretic?
St. Irenaeous of Lyons explains a common trait among those who cause divisions and heresy (which is a main reason why Christianity has tens of thousands of denominations today) simply because they do NOT want to obey the authority of Scripture and its exegesis by the Earliest Authorities of Doctrine.
Indeed, Irenaeous implies (in his own words below, next) that when ‘Christian heretics’ are confronted with Scripture which contradicts their claim, some of them ATTACK HOLY SCRIPTURE instead (e.g. claiming ‘not’ to believe in the inerrancy of Scripture) while some of them ATTACK the EARLIEST AUTHORITIES of DOCTRINE instead (e.g. claiming ‘not’ to believe in Irenaeous’ authority or the Wisdom passed down to him – Ironically, these ‘modern, new theories’ all started with ‘later theologians only’ who disrespected say Irenaeos’ Sound Exegesis – Can you see it?)
“When, however, they are confuted from the Scriptures, they turn round and accuse these same Scriptures, as if they were not correct, nor of authority, and [assert] that they are ambiguous, and that the truth cannot be extracted from them by those who are ignorant of tradition. For [they allege] that the truth was not delivered by means of written documents, but vivâ voce: wherefore also Paul declared, “But we speak wisdom among those that are perfect, but not the wisdom of this world.” And this wisdom each one of them alleges to be the fiction of his own inventing, forsooth; so that, according to their idea, the truth properly resides at one time in Valentinus, at another in Marcion, at another in Cerinthus, then afterwards in Basilides, or has even been indifferently in any other opponent, who could speak nothing pertaining to salvation. For every one of these men, being altogether of a perverse disposition, depraving the system of truth, is not ashamed to preach himself.
But, again, when we refer them to that tradition which originates from the apostles, [and] which is preserved by means of the succession of presbyters in the Churches, they object to tradition, saying that they themselves are wiser not merely than the presbyters, but even than the apostles, because they have discovered the unadulterated truth. For [they maintain] that the apostles intermingled the things of the law with the words of the Saviour; and that not the apostles alone, but even the Lord Himself, spoke as at one time from the Demiurge, at another from the intermediate place, and yet again from the Pleroma, but that they themselves, indubitably, unsulliedly, and purely, have knowledge of the hidden mystery: this is, indeed, to blaspheme their Creator after a most impudent manner! It comes to this, therefore, that these men do now consent neither to Scripture nor to tradition.
Such are the adversaries with whom we have to deal, my very dear friend, endeavouring like slippery serpents to escape at all points. Where-fore they must be opposed at all points, if per-chance, by cutting off their retreat, we may succeed in turning them back to the truth. For, though it is not an easy thing for a soul under the influence of error to repent, yet, on the other hand, it is not altogether impossible to escape from error when the truth is brought alongside it.” (Iraneous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book III, Point 1, Point 2, Point 3 respectively)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
Conclusion
“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all SPEAK the SAME THING, and that there be NO DIVISIONS among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the SAME MIND and in the SAME JUDGMENT.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 1:20, KJV)
Please choose your Christian leaders ‘wisely’. From my write up it is clear that after the Bible, I stand with St. Justin Martyr and St. Irenaeos of Lyons in regards to Scriptural Exegesis both in Doctrine & being earliest Authorities in Biblical Koine Greek too. I cannot find an extensive Writings of other Reliable Christian saints who may have existed during their time or earlier in discussing the Important Topics which is Found in their Writings.
Why should we pay attention to them?
If we don’t, we may be believing the very heresies they fought against which may have clothed itself in ‘new ways’. Also, rebellion is as witchcraft (1 Samuel 15:22 – 23).
Hence the Verse below mentions the ‘Reward’ (most likely in the afterlife) for ACCEPTING these men as BOTH (as ‘prophets’ & as ‘righteous men’) instead of ‘opposing them’ (as some Rebellious Christianity does – of which we STRONGLY DISAGREE with such behaviour – please, be wise as I’m pretty sure that Papias, Irenaeous are very close to Lord Jesus Christ & will be in the Heavens post Resurrection):
“He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 10:41, NASB)
Also, to ‘submit’ to these earliest righteous Christian leaders is instructed in Holy Scripture:
“Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith.” – Anonymous (Hebrews 13:7, NASB)
“Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.” – Anonymous (Hebrews 13:17, NASB)
I do not submit to any modern Christian leader who refuses to acknowledge the authority of St. Justin Martyr or St. Irenaeous – Isn’t it obvious?
Why should I disregard Justin & Irenaeous and follow your pastor if he preaches against them?
I’m NOT going to choose the ‘second best onward’ when ‘the best leaders of Earliest Christianity next to the Apostles of Christ and their Presbyters are available to us in these ancient writings’.
Please ask this Important Question regarding any Doctrine you believe: Who and When was the ‘first time’ in Christian History did someone reliable believe what you believe today?
Do you ‘understand’ it?
If we ignore His Scripture and His earliest leaders, ‘our own ministry, exegesis and works’ may be ignored as well (yes, our ‘own ignoring of Scripture’ and ‘not recognizing of these earliest Christian leaders’ —> is returned back to us in Principle of Judgment where ‘we reap what we have sown’, Galatians 6:7 in Lawlessness too, Matthew 7:20 – 23). That’s a Reason ‘why’ I take these Reliable Saints ‘seriously’.
Please remember this: I am NOT the one ‘bad mouthing these saints’ or ‘rejecting them’. I respect them deeply for their Wisdom in Holy Scripture and because they come from a lineage of authority which is very close to the times of the apostles themselves.
All Things – Aeons – Salvation of All – Secrets from St. Irenaeous of Lyons
1) Biblical Definition and Distinction
(i) Immortality
Immortality (English) = Athanasian (Transliterated Greek)
Meaning = Deathless
Example Verses: 1 Timothy 6:16, 1 Corinthians 15:53
(ii) Mortal
Mortal (English) = thnēton (Transliterated Greek)
Example Verse: 1 Corinthians 15:53
Meaning = Can die, perish or cease to exist
(iii) Incorruption
Incorruption (English) = Aphtharsian (Transliterated Greek)
Example Verse: 1 Corinthians 15:53
Meaning = Sinless (Unaffected by Sin & its effects)
(iv) Corruption
Corruption (English) = phthoras (Transliterated Greek)
Example Verse: 1 Corinthians 15:53, Romans 8:21
Meaning = Sinful (Affected by Sin & its effects)
2) Immortality vs Age-during
As explained in write-ups prior, the Greek Word for “Immortality” (e.g. “athanasian” in 1 Timothy 6:16 or 1 Corinthians 15:53) is different from the Greek Word “Aeon” (or ‘Age’, ‘age-during’, ‘Aeonian’, e.g. Matthew 25:46, Ephesians 2:7, Matthew 12:32).
Did St. Irenaeous of Lyons (a first authority in Biblical Koine Greek & Doctrine) understand that ‘Immortality’ is different from ‘Age-during’?
Please consider ‘his own words’ below:
“God, therefore, is one and the same, who rolls up the heaven as a book, and renews the face of the earth; who made the things of time. for man, so that coming to maturity in them, he may produce the fruit of immortality; and who, through His kindness, also bestows [upon him] eternal things, “that in the ages to come He may show the exceeding riches of His grace;” (Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter V, Point 1)
I repeat, with my EMPHASIS [in brackets too] for further clarity:
“God, therefore, is one and the same, who ROLLS UP the HEAVEN as a book, and RENEWS the face of the EARTH; Who [God] made the THINGS of TIME. for MAN, so that COMING to MATURITY in them, he may produce the fruit of IMMORTALITY; and Who [God], through His Kindness, also bestows [upon him, MAN] eternal [AGE-DURING or AEONIAN] things, “that in the ages [AEONS] to come He may show the exceeding riches of His grace;” (Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter V, Point 1)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
Explanation:
(i) None of these Created things Lasts Forever in the Current State
Context: “things of time” and ‘not things of timeless-ness’.
Please note the phrase “[God] made the THINGS of TIME” —> referring to act of “rolling up heaven” and “renewing the earth” —–> which proves that these ‘created things’ are NOT forever.
Yes, these ‘created things’ —> being ‘bestowed upon man’ —> are said to be AEONIAN or ‘age-during’, i.e. ‘lasting to the age’ —> the phrase “[God], through His Kindness, also bestows [upon him, MAN] eternal [AGE-DURING or AEONIAN] things” means this agreeing to the Verse below too (when ‘literally’ translated):
“we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen are temporary, but the things not seen are AGE-DURING [Greek: aiōnia].” – apostle Paul (2 Corinthians 4:18, YLT)
(ii) Purpose of the Ages
“according to a purpose of the ages [Greek: aiōnōn], which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord,” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 3:11, YLT)
A Purpose for the ‘ages’ is described beautifully by Irenaeous above in that God created the things for man to last to the ‘age only’ (i.e. ‘Aeonian – adjective’) so that it fits man’s level of ‘maturity’ to be able to ‘live in it’ —> as the phrase “[God] made the THINGS of TIME. for MAN, so that COMING to MATURITY in them…” implies.
(iii) Does Irenaeous make a distinction between Immortality vs Age-during?
Yes. How?
The ‘rolled up heaven’ and ‘renewed earth’ —> indicates that the ‘age-during things bestowed for that time’ has ‘ceased’ —> proving by ‘his own usage’ itself that ‘Aeonian or age-during’ does NOT mean eternal but ‘lasting to the age only’.
Also, how does Irenaeous understand the Biblical Concept of ‘ages [Greek: aiōsin] to Come’ as he quotes Ephesians 2:7 in his writing above?
As explained in an earlier write up too, Irenaeous clearly understands Immortality conferred to upon men by God in the following manner:
God gives man ‘created things’ —> ‘age by age’ or in an ‘Aeonian manner’ and NOT via an ‘eternal or incorruptible or immortal age’ [as the Gnostics erred – point out in my previous write up] —> as these phrases imply irrefutably:
‘God, … made the things of time. for man, … the fruit of immortality; … also bestows [upon him] eternal things, “that in the ages to come …’
I repeat, With Emphasis:
“God, … made the THINGS of TIME. for MAN, … the fruit of IMMORTALITY; … also bestows [upon him, MAN] eternal [AGE-DURING or AEONIAN] things, “that in the ages [AEONS] to come …”
Conclusion
This is ‘how’ Irenaeous Understood Immortality:
Immortality = ‘Age-during things’ given from age to age into the ‘ages to come’ according to Man’s Growth and Maturity from glory to glory without end.
So, the afterlife Judgment of ‘age-during fire’ (Matthew 25:41) or ‘age-during chastisement’ (Matthew 25:46) is for the benefit of the wicked too and lasts to that ‘one future age only, AGE2’ (and NOT forever, Matthew 12:32 as well) since there are ‘ages to come’ (Ephesians 2:7, at least AGE2, AGE3) proving that the ‘next Aeon/Age’ (AGE2) cannot be eternal as it must make way for AG3 which Scripture Prophesies its existence and Irenaeous understands it likewise too as a ‘factual statement’ and ‘not a figure of speech’.
Indeed, here are three quotes which prove that St. Irenaeous (in his own words) acknowledges the ORDER of the AEONS concept as BIBLICAL TRUTH (i.e. one age ends and is followed by another) which is very Biblical toward ‘ages (aeons) past too’ (e.g. Colossians 1:26) as it is Written in Holy Scripture:
Is it a heresy to use the phrase ‘aeons of the Aeons?’
Irenaeous reveals that it is NOT heresy to use the ‘same phrase’ —> ‘ages of Ages’ or ‘aeons of the Aeons’ but only that we should NOT refer to the ‘aeons’ as some sort of ‘living creature or beings’ as the Gnostics did but take it just as a ‘Time Period only’.
“… Paul also, they [Gnostic-heretics] affirm, very clearly and frequently names these AEONS, and even goes so far as to PRESERVE their ORDER, when he [apostle Paul] says, “To all the generations of the Aeons of the Aeon.” Nay, we ourselves, when at the giving of thanks we pronounce the words, “To Aeons of Aeons”, do set forth these Aeons. And, in fine, wherever the words Aeon or Aeons occur, they at once refer them to these beings.” (St. Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter 3:1)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html
I removed the translator’s addition of (forever and ever) – yes, which was added by the translator (his bias) and kept the above to Irenaeous’ translated words with [my emphasis in brackets]. Please compare with the translation in the provided link should you wish to ‘compare’ and ‘see’.
Please note carefully that Irenaeous affirms that we affirm the existence of these ‘Aeons’ or ‘Ages’ (and we do NOT deny it) —> as his phrase ‘we ourselves, … “To Aeons of Aeons”, do set forth these Aeons’.
Yes, do note ‘carefully’ the following:
“Paul also, they [Gnostic-heretics] affirm, very clearly and frequently names these AEONS, and even goes so far as to PRESERVE their ORDER”
Which means that apostle “Paul … names these AEONS … PRESERVE their ORDER” —> apostle Paul NAMES the Aeons in the context of ORDER. Example:
The Present evil Aeon (‘current age’ – singular) = AGE1 (Galatians 1:4).
The ‘Aeons to come’ (‘future ages’ – plural) = AGE2, AGE3, … (Ephesians 2:7).
Thus Irenaeous is conclusively admitting and proving in his own words that we also believe in the existence of ‘one age after the other’ (i.e. one aeon after the other) except that we do NOT think of the ‘Ages or Aeons’ as ‘living beings of some sort’ as the ‘Gnostics erred’.
Second quote – Irenaeous does NOT seem to affirm the existence of an Eternal or Immortal Aeon.
The heresy of the ‘incorruptible aeon’ or ‘immortal age’ is stated in the Gnostic sect’s heresy below (please note this phrase carefully):
“The father and son thus both had intercourse with the woman (whom they also call the mother of the living). When, however, she could not bear nor receive into herself the greatness of the lights, they declare that she was filled to repletion, and became ebullient on the left side; and that thus their only son Christ, as belonging to the right side, and ever tending to what was higher, was immediately caught up with his mother to form an INCORRUPTIBLE AEON.” (St. Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter XXX:2)
Also, Irenaeous calles the concept of an ‘INCORRUPTIBLE AEON’ —> as an ‘OPINION’ in the below:
“… For he will not now possess holy souls to send them down again into the world, except those only which are of his substance, that is, those into which he has breathed. But the consummation [of all things] will take place, when the whole besprinkling of the spirit of light is gathered together, and is carried off to form an INCORRUPTIBLE AEON. Such are the OPINIONS which prevail among these persons, by whom, like the Lernaean hydra, a many-headed beast has been generated from the school of Valentinus.” (St. Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter XXX:14 – 15)
Yes, please note ‘carefully’ that St. Irenaeous of Lyons does NOT acknowledge ‘a different version’ of the concept of an INCORRUPTIBLE (or Eternal, Immortal) AEON’ in his discussion in his book above (as you may read it in ‘full’ and ‘realize’ it too) —-> which is greatly in contrast to the ‘concept of Aeons or Ages’ as illustrated in Point a) earlier of which HE ACKNOWLEDGED it to be THEOLOGICALLY CORRECT (and we preach this ‘same’ Biblical concept only). This is an important and irrefutable point, can you see it?
The phrase ‘Incorruptible Aeon’ (which is their theological point in this, while the rest being ‘some dirty blasphemous story telling of Gnostic sects) itself points to the Greek Word ‘Aeon or Age in English’ to mean an ‘unknown or limited time period only but NOT forever’.
Indeed, because the Greek Word ‘Aeon’ by itself only means ‘age’ (a limited unknown time period), the efforts of the Gnostics is clear in that they tried to make up ‘strange stories’ to ‘make a particular Aeon or Age, say ‘Zoe Aionios’ or others by assigning names or ‘beings to them’ —> to make it ‘Immortal or Incorruptible’ which is a form of Idolatry (conceptually) as it challenges God Alone Who has Pure Immortality or Deathless-ness, ‘Athanasian’ —> while the rest of creation is only endowed with ‘age (aeon)-during endurance’ by His Power —-> as 1 Timothy 6:16 Majestically Declares —-> since He did NOT give any creation Immortality yet (which is chiefly reserved for His Bride post Resurrection only – 1 Corinthians 15 with Revelation 20:4 – 6 & Luke 20:35 – 36 as well).
Can you understand the Incredible Accuracy of Holy Scripture and how our Proper exegesis to Understanding the Greek Word Aeon or Age is Important to Give Glory to God Alone?
Claiming that an ‘aeon or age is eternal’ may be a HERESY.
Really?
Yes, please consider ‘Irenaeous own words below’ where he points to the ‘specific HERESY’ of calling ‘(any) aeon or age to be eternal’ (example: don’t our popular Bible translations call the ‘next age, or next aeon’ eternal as implied in their translations of Matthew 12:32 with Matthew 25:46?)
” Besides those, however, among these heretics who are Simonians, and of whom we have already spoken, a multitude of Gnostics have sprung up, and have been manifested like mushrooms growing out of the ground. I now proceed to describe the principal opinions held by them. Some of them, then, set forth a certain Aeon who never grows old, and exists in a virgin spirit: him they style Barbelos. They declare that somewhere or other there exists a certain father who cannot be named, and that he was desirous to reveal himself to this Barbelos. Then this Ennoea went forward, stood before his face, and demanded from him Prognosis (prescience). But when Prognosis had, [as was requested, ] come forth, these two asked for Aphtharsia (incorruption), which also came forth, and after that Zoe Aionios (age-during life). Barbelos, glorying in these, and contemplating their greatness, and in conception [thus formed], rejoicing in this greatness, generated light similar to it. … ” (St. Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter XXIX:1)
I repeat the above, please note the following ‘heresy, carefully’:
“… heretics … multitude of Gnostics … Some of them, then, set forth a certain Aeon who never grows old… these two asked for Aphtharsia (incorruption), which also came forth, and after that Zoe Aionios (age-during life) … ” (St. Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter XXIX:1)
Can you see it?
Firstly, please note that ‘Zoe Aionios’ is a similar phrase to ‘age-during life’ (popularly translated as ‘eternal life’ in Matthew 25:46).
Irenaeous is contending that the ‘Gnostic heretics’ are the one who were popularizing the ‘new idea’ that there is a ‘certain Aeon’ or ‘certain Age’ —-> ‘which never grows old’ (i.e. is ‘eternal’). Shocked?
Notice that the ‘Aeon which never grows old’ —-> is said to have been equivalent to have attained ‘Aphtharsia (incorruption)’ which is IMMORTALITY (as this word is different and is found in 1 Corinthians 15) —-> meaning so clearly that there is NO such thing as an ‘eternal age’ but that ‘each age has both a beginning and end’ (being time periods, implied).
Yes, the Gnostic heretics are the ones who introduced the concept of an ‘eternal age’ which ‘never grows old’ as they say, it has attained ‘Aphtharsia (incorruption or immortality)’. The rest is their ‘story telling’ with ‘fabled beings representing these ages or aeons’.
It doesn’t end there as these Gnostics tried further to ‘corrupt’ the Biblical Concept of ‘Zoe Aionios’ (as it’s found in Matthew 25:46) by claiming that ‘Zoe Aionios’ (this ‘aeon or age’) also seeked out to be ‘eternal’ by requesting this ‘Aphtharsia (incorruption or immortality)’ likewise.
Isn’t it crisp clear from this discussion in ‘Irenaeous’ own words’ that ‘Zoe Aionios’ (in Matthew 25:46) too only means ‘age-during life which is NOT endless NOR Immortal’ but that the Gnostics invented a ‘fable story’ to show ‘how Zoe Aionios’ could itself become eternal?
Yes, by usage and etymology itself it is evident here that ‘Zoe Aionios’ (Matthew 25:46) only refers to age-during life and that’s why the Gnostic error tried to be ‘smarter’ by inventing a ‘fabled story’ to show ‘how this Zoe Aionios may have attained Immoratlity (Aphtharsia) so that their converts may be ‘swayed to this’ so called ‘hidden truth’.
In light of all this, our ‘popular Christianity’ which preaches or translates ‘Zoe Aionios’ to mean ‘eternal life’ instead of ‘age-during life’ may be guilty of following the Gnostic error in this concept (minus the ‘fable stories’). An Irony indeed.
The Bible Teaches that ONLY God has ‘Deathless-ness’ (athanasian) being Immortal and that His Power to sustain the rest of things is to the ‘age (aeon) only’ so that ‘NONE of the current things will last eternally’ (can you see the real meaning and purpose of His ‘age-during Power’?) as these ‘former things’ will eventually pass away (and NOT last forever, Isaiah 65:17, Revelation 21:4):
“Who [God] only is having Immortality [Athanasian], dwelling in light unapproachable, whom no one of men did see, nor is able to see, to whom is honour and might age [aeon]-during! Amen.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 6:16, YLT)
Yes, God’s Power or Honour is ‘highlighted’ (NOT limited) to the ‘age (aeon)’ in Holy Scripture because these ‘created things’ are to last to ‘that particular age (aeon) only’ – an incredible accuracy in Inspired Writing pointing to this Truth. In like manner, God of Israel does NOT mean that He is the God for Israel only but is highlighted thus for ‘His Specific Purposes toward them’ (Romans 3:29).
For example, God’s Power is highlighted as ‘His age-during Power’ (in 1 Timothy 6:16), because it refers to the current ‘created things’ lasting only ’till the end of this age only’ after which the ‘fire will consume it’ (2 Peter 3:7 – 10) and a New Heavens and a New Earth will be Made thereafter (2 Peter 3:13).
3) What if I don’ want to believe in Christ now?
How to Understand the Great Denial due to Unbelief or Lawlessness in Matthew 7:20 – 23 with Matthew 25:1 – 13 correctly?
Context: The phrase ‘I never knew you’ Spoken on the ‘Day’ (Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:12 – linking these together) when He Returns on His White Horse links this to His ‘Marriage’ (toward His ‘Virgins’ or those ‘who call Him Lord, Lord’).
Is this Timeline correct?
Yes, consider Irenaeous in ‘his own words’ below toward ‘those who REFUSE to BELIEVE in Lord JESUS CHRIST now’ where they ‘miss’ His Marriage (and hence ‘miss’ the First Resurrection as well, implied in Revelation 19 & Revelation 20 which ties up to this Timeline when these events occur):
“If, however, thou wilt NOT BELIEVE in Him, and wilt flee from His hands, the cause of imperfection shall be in thee who didst NOT OBEY, but not in Him who called [thee]. For He commissioned [messengers] to call people to the MARRIAGE, but they who did NOT OBEY Him DEPRIVED themselves of the ROYAL SUPPER… ” (Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XXXIX, Point 3)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
Those who did NOT believe and did NOT obey may end up in ‘age-during chastisement’ next at the ‘end of the age too’ (as God Wills):
“… He has inflicted an appropriate punishment upon those who try to AVOID being SUBJECT to Him. SUBMISSION to God is eternal [AGE-DURING] REST, so that they who shun the light have a place worthy of their flight; and those who fly from eternal [AGE-DURING] REST, have a habitation in accordance with their fleeing.
Now, since all good things are with God, they who by their own determination fly from God, do defraud themselves of all good things; and having been [thus] defrauded of all good things with respect to God, they shall consequently fall under the JUST JUDGMENT of God.
For those persons who shun rest shall justly incur punishment, and those who avoid the light shall justly dwell in darkness. For as in the case of this TEMPORAL LIGHT, those who shun it do deliver themselves over to darkness, so that they do themselves become the cause to themselves that they are destitute of light, and do inhabit darkness; and, as I have already observed, the light is not the cause of such an [unhappy.] condition of existence to them; so those who fly from the eternal [AGE-DURING] light of God, which contains in itself all good things, are themselves the cause to themselves of their inhabiting eternal [AGE-DURING] darkness, destitute of all good things, having become to themselves the cause of [their consignment to] an abode of that” (Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XXXIX, Point 4)
Please notice carefully that Irenaeous implies that this ‘age-during light’ of REST is a TEMPORAL light proving irrefutably that the translation of ‘age-during’ is CORRECT in the above and ‘not eternal’. Can you see it?
Do note that the Context of Point 4 above is Written next whilst discussing Point 3 which Pointed out earlier refers to the Judgment of ‘unbelievers and believers who do NOT obey’ to NOT be part of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (His Marriage on the Day of His Return).
So, the Judgment in Point 4 above refers to them ‘missing’ out on this Promised ‘age-during Rest’ (referring to the rest on the Last or 7th Day of this current age, AGE1 itself, Hebrews 4:6) —> which is reserved ONLY for Sheepfold1, the ‘believers in the Faith of Jesus Christ’ (Revelation 20:4 – 6, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 17, Luke 20:35 – 36) as the ‘Resurrection of the Just’ too (Luke 14:14) as discussed in previous write-ups that Irenaeous sets forth this belief too clearly.
It is interesting to note from the above that
SUBMISSION to God is eternal [AGE-DURING] REST = in the case of this TEMPORAL LIGHT.
Can you SEE it?
eternal [AGE-DURING] REST = this TEMPORAL LIGHT
More accurately,
[AGE-DURING] REST = this TEMPORAL LIGHT = on the LAST DAY of this Age which the ‘rest of the dead have NO Hope’ to attain this First Resurrection & Sabbath Rest (1 Thessalonians 4:13, Revelation 20:5).
4) Universal Salvation
Did St. Irenaeous of Lyons Understand Universal Salvation?
Yes, Here are three Irrefutable Examples in Irenaeous’ ‘own words’.
(i) Context of 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28.
How did St. Irenaeous understand 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28 in the Context of ‘All [Created] things’ including the ENEMIES (1 Corinthians 15:25- 26) being made SUBJECT to Him eventually (1 Corinthians 15:27 – 28) in the END, 1 Corinthians 15:24 (which is ‘not’ Done yet but NOTHING will be left un-subject to Him when that happens, as per Hebrews 2:8)?
Please consider – the first step in ‘SUBJECTING all things to Him’ is their ‘acknowledgement of Him’ – please note that the ‘all things’ includes ‘the enemy, demons and the apostate angels too’ – Shocked? as per Irenaeous ‘own words’ below:
“… Father making ALL THINGS SUBJECT to Him; while He RECEIVED TESTIMONY from all that He was very man, and that He was very God, from the Father, from the Spirit, from angels, from the creation itself, from men, from APOSTATE SPIRITS and DEMONS, from the ENEMY, and LAST of all, from DEATH itself. But the Son, ADMINISTERING ALL THINGS for the Father, works from the BEGINNING even to the END, and without Him no man can attain the KNOWLEDGE of God …” (Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter VI, Point 7)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
Note: Knowing this is considered ‘knowledge of God’.
So, in the above Irenaeous clearly acknowledges that the SUBJECTION of ALL THINGS to Him refers to the subjection of ‘all created things’ to Him including the enemy too (though it is not done in full yet, agreeing to Hebrews 2:8 as well) and it BEGINS with ‘all created things’ (including His enemies, demons and apostate spirits too) —> who must RECEIVE His TESTIMONY eventually (as it is implied in the above – please read the passage ‘carefully’ to ‘realize’ this).
Can anything remain unsubjected to God throughout eternity (e.g. as the example of eternal Hell claims)?
No, according to Irenaeos:
“… Neither the nature of ANY CREATED THING, therefore, nor the weakness of the flesh, can prevail against the WILL of GOD. For God is NOT SUBJECT to CREATED THINGS, but CREATED THINGS to God; and ALL THINGS yield OBEDIENCE to HIS WILL. Wherefore also the Lord declares, “The things which are impossible with men, are possible with God.” … so also now, although SOME, NOT knowing the power and promise of God, may OPPOSE their own SALVATION, deeming it impossible for God, who RAISES up the DEAD; to have power to confer upon them [the ‘dead’] eternal [AGE-DURING] duration, yet the scepticism of men of this stamp shall NOT render the faithfulness of God of none effect.” (Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter V, Point 2)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
Please note carefully that Irenaeous is not just declaring the Subjection of All Created things back to God eventually (in the above) —> to OBEY His WILL eventually —-> but is also setting forth to include ‘the wicked too’ (e.g. those who ‘oppose their own salvation’) —>
Yes, from the above Irenaeous clearly implies the following meaning:
ANY CREATED THING —> WILL SUBJECT in OBEDIENCE to HIS WILL eventually (as Irenaeous claims, in agreement with the Prophecy in 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28 too).
This Promise includes even ‘some’ —> who NOT knowing the power and promise of God —> and may even OPPOSE their own SALVATION —-> to be ‘Raised from the Dead’ (i.e. get a ‘resurrected flesh’) —> to have power to confer upon them eternal [AGE-DURING] duration being bestowed upon them too —> which will HAPPEN EVENTUALLY because —-> scepticism of men of this stamp shall NOT render the faithfulness of God of none effect (in agreement to Romans 3:3 – 4).
Can you understand the Deep Meaning intended here?
Irenaeous clearly points that eventually ALL Creation will be SUBJECT to Him (including those who ‘oppose their own salvation now’) and when a formerly disobedient ‘spirit of a man’ (i.e. ‘the dead’, 1 Peter 3:18 – 20 or 1 Peter 4:5 – 6) is SUBJECT to Him, an AGE-DURING Duration of life in a ‘resurrected flesh’ awaits these ‘dead men’.
So, it is implied that the ‘wicked’ remain in their ‘death state’ (age-during fire or equivalent) to the ‘age’ as long as ‘they refuse to SUBMIT to Him’ and when they SUBMIT to Him eventually (which is Prophesied as Inevitable by Irenaeous’ in the above agreeing to 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28 as well), it is thus inevitable that they get bestowed [AGE-DURING] duration for their ‘continuance of existence’ (in the “flesh” – implied from the phrase being ‘raised from the dead’ in the above, context).
This claim is of SALVATION toward THE DEAD to mean their ‘continuance existence in the flesh to be set forth’ is clearly seen in Irenaeous’ own words in his previous book (setting the pace for the argument above, context agreement):
“… who in the last times sent His Son, and conferred SALVATION upon His own handiwork-that is, the SUBSTANCE of FLESH. Arranging, then, in another book [Book 5], the rest of the words of the Lord …” (Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XLI, Point 4)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
So, it is clear that:
SALVATION = Resurrecting the Dead in the SUBSTANCE of FLESH.
And so, in the previous claim:
OPPOSE their own SALVATION = The Dead NOT being raised yet in the SUBSTANCE of FLESH.
The Context of SALVATION in this ‘raising of the dead’ points to the ‘second resurrection of the wicked to life’ (the ‘Made Alive part’ as apostle Paul echoed as the Hope to the wicked too, Acts 24:15, 1 Corinthians 15:21 – 22) which comes only AFTER their SECOND DEATH being ‘resurrected for Judgment first’ in Gehenna or Lake of Fire prior (John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2, Revelation 20:11 – 15).
This explains further the Infamous claim by Irenaeous which is often ‘misunderstood’ to mean ‘annihilation of the wicked’ (below).
The Wicked – NOT Granted AUTOMATIC Continuance of Life to the ‘ages of Ages’ & beyond (implied).
“… But he who shall REJECT it, and prove himself UNGRATEFUL to his Maker, inasmuch as he has been created, and has not recognised Him who bestowed [the gift upon him], deprives himself of [the privilege of] continuance for ever and ever [to the Aeons of the Aeons].
And, for this reason, the Lord declared to those who showed themselves UNGRATEFUL towards Him: “If ye have not been faithful in that which is little, who will give you that which is great? ” indicating that those who, in this brief TEMPORAL LIFE, have shown themselves ungrateful to Him who bestowed it, shall justly NOT RECEIVE from Him length of days for ever and ever [to the Aeons of the Aeons].” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXXIV, second part of Point 3)
How to understand it correctly?
Please note that a comparison is made toward ‘this brief TEMPORAL LIFE’ in regards to ‘which life’ is being Spoken of by our Blessed Lord toward the Wicked in the above when He Asks, ‘If ye have not been faithful in that which is little, who will give you that which is great?’
So, since the ‘brief temporal life’ of the wicked prior was on earth in the ‘flesh’, it is understood that these wicked dead (called ‘the dead’ in 1 Peter 4:5, Revelation 20:11 – 15) on Judgment Day return to being ‘the dead’ after their ‘resurrected body for judgment’ (John 5:28 – 29) perishes in Gehenna or Lake of Fire where only the ‘body + soul’ is destroyed, so they return to be ‘the dead’ (Matthew 10:28) living only in the ‘spirit’ thereafter (1 Peter 4:6, 1 Corinthians 5:5).
It doesn’t end there as Irenaeous (seeing the Aeons of the Aeons continuity to be a reality only after the ‘age-during Judgment first’) —> sets forth the following argument next, that if the ‘wicked spirit’ still REJECTS Him and proves UNGRATEFUL still, then —> it shall justly NOT RECEIVE from Him length of days to the ages of the Ages [to the Aeons of the Aeons] —> indicating NOT receiving SALVATION –> which Irenaeous points to meaning —> These ‘wicked’ (spirits) post age-during Judgment or Aeonian Judgment in the Lake of Fire —> NOT receiving the ‘existence and continuance’ —> which refers to Resurrection from the Dead in the SUBSTANCE of FLESH —> opposing their own SALVATION by their own choice —> as long as they choose to willfully ‘not subject’ themselves to Him.
So, it is clear that the wicked do NOT cease to exist in the Lake of Fire but live in their spirit-state (1 Peter 4:6, being ‘saved in the spirit state after the destruction of their flesh’ – 1 Corinthians 5:5) where the ‘destruction in the flesh post their first resurrection for Judgment’ (John 5:28 – 29) only refers to their ‘body + soul’ (or flesh) being destroyed (Matthew 10:28).
Hence Irenaeous is implying that ‘Salvation’ (referring to the resurrection of the flesh and continuing in existence in it) is denied to the wicked to the Aeons of the Aeons after the Aeonian chastisement in fire (Matthew 25:46) so as long as they ‘refuse God’. These still exist in their spirit state but it doesn’t last ‘forever’ like this either as in the same breath Irenaeous also explained earlier that ANY CREATED THING and ALL CREATED THING will eventually SUBJECT itself to God which implies that this SALVATION must reach them too eventually.
(ii) MERCY to All
“… Mercy Triumphs over Judgment” – apostle James (James 2:13, NASB)
How did Irenaeous Understand apostle Paul’s Last Word on Judgment – which is ‘MERCY to ALL eventually (in Romans 11:32)?’
Irenaeous does NOT speak of ‘any availability’ NOR does he refer to the ‘all’ in Romans 11:32 to refer to ‘believers only or the sheep only’ but also INCLUSIVE of the DISOBEDIENT too – Shocked? So was I when I read the following (which PROVES the CONTEXT of UNIVERSAL SALVATION for ALL MEN true when Romans 11:32 is quoted), as Irenaeous himself APPROVES it as follows:
“… Just as the physician is proved by his patients, so is God also revealed through MEN. And therefore Paul declares, “For God hath concluded ALL in UNBELIEF, that He [God] may have MERCY upon ALL; ” not saying this in reference to spiritual Aeons, but to MAN, who had been DISOBEDIENT to God, and being CAST OFF from IMMORTALITY, then OBTAINED MERCY, receiving through the Son of God that adoption which is [ACCOMPLISHED] by Himself… ” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book III, Chapter XX, second part of Point 3)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
Please note carefully that Irenaeous speaks of MEN (who are sick generally being SINNERS, as the Context of the Great Physician is set forth first).
Next. Irenaeous Speaks of the ‘Mercy to All’ —> not as an offer, nor as an availability or any part on the ‘will of men’ (agreeing to Romans 9:15 – 16) though popular theology errs otherwise greatly in this – Can you see it? —-> but as an ACCOMPLISHED Fact evidenced by the phrase ‘OBTAINED MERCY’ toward those ‘CAST OFF from IMMORTALITY’ due to His Work Alone.
In other words, Irenaeous does NOT discuss any ‘availability or the will of man’ when quoting Romans 11:32 proving that these are irrelevant to the context of MERCY which depends on GOD’s WILL ALONE (Romans 9:15 – 16).
Next, Irenaeous clearly sets forth the SAME Prophetic Tone in Inspired Scripture by apostle Paul in that ALL in UNBELIEF or those who have been DISOBEDIENT to God will first be CAST OFF from IMMORTALITY (enduring the AGE-DURING Judgment in Gehenna Fire, Matthew 25:46) where their MORTAL parts of the BODY and SOUL will be DESTROYED (Matthew 10:28) but these will eventually been shown MERCY, not as an offer or availability within an Aeon but as a REALITY in that they will OBTAIN that MERCY, Romans 11:32 (which Triumphs and ENDS that afterlife Judgment Sentence too, James 2:13) as even the Infamous Sibyline Prophecies (in link below) clearly records in agreement to all this as well:
The Jewish-Christian Sibyline Oracle Prophecies are Important because exegesis regarding Prophecy of Scripture is NOT of any private interpretation and thus must agree with the Earliest Known established Reliable Prophecy such as This (in obedience to 2 Peter 1:20).
(iii) Context of Colossians 1:16 – 20.
Christ Centered Universalists claim that Salvation is by Lord Jesus Christ’s Work Alone toward ‘All Created things’ eventually (Colossians 1:16) where through His Blood on His Cross He will cause the Final Two Way Reconciliation Prophesied Majestically in Scripture toward this same ‘All [Created] things’ (in Colossians 1:20).
Did Irenaeous Understand Colossians 1:16 – 20 in the SAME way?
Yes, to quote:
“Christ, who was called the Son of God before the ages, was manifested in the fulness of time, in order that He might cleanse us through His blood, who were under the power of sin, presenting us as pure sons to His Father, if we yield ourselves obediently to the chastisement of the Spirit. And in the end of time He shall come to do away with all evil, and to reconcile all things, in order that there may be an end of all impurities.” (Fragment XXXIX, FRAGMENTS FROM THE LOST WRITINGS OF IRENAEUS)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-fragments.html
It is self explanatory in the above, I repeat with Emphasis:
“Christ, who was called the Son of God BEFORE the AGES [Aeons], was manifested in the fulness of time, in order that He might cleanse us through His blood, who were under the power of sin, presenting us as pure sons to His Father, if we yield ourselves obediently to the chastisement of the Spirit. And in the END of TIME He shall come to DO AWAY with ALL EVIL, and to RECONCILE ALL [Created] THINGS in order that there may be an END of ALL IMPURITIES.” (Fragment XXXIX, FRAGMENTS FROM THE LOST WRITINGS OF IRENAEUS)
We ‘Understand’ Colossians 1:16 – 20 the SAME way as Irenaeous describes above.
Blessed be Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the World (1 John 4:14)!
Peace to you.
Two Resurrections for the Wicked – First Resurrection vs General Resurrection – Deep Secrets from Irenaeous and Justin Martyr
Judgment Evil is eye for an eye (The Old Testament teaches that).
Overcoming evil is by Good (Romans 12:21).
“The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.” (Psalm 37:30, KJV)
Judging Evil (Isaiah 3:11, Galatians 6:7, Hebrews 9:27) is followed by Overcoming Evil in the Lake of Fire (Romans 12:21, Matthew 5:43 – 44, Time Order implied even in Old Testament vs New Testament order, Malachi 3:2).
The Gehenna or Lake of Fire’s “Kolasin Aionion” (Matthew 25:46) is two fold (Retribution, Isaiah 3:11 followed by Purification, Malachi 3:2).
To not punish evil is not justice (Isaiah 3:11, Galatians 6:7, Hebrews 9:27). The New Testament commands us to exhibit “overcoming evil” on earth (shadow) since that’s the final part (in God’s Judgment, the “Mercy Triumphing and ending Judgment Part” – James 2:13, “Mercy to All eventually”, Romans 11:32).
Example: The Blood of the Martyrs will be Avenged (Revelation 6:10) in the Day of His Wrath (Revelation 6:17, Romans 1:18).
God does NOT avenge only Lord Jesus Christ’s Blood and because of that the sin of the World may be taken away, 1 John 2:2 in its own times, not at the same time & not immediately, 1 Timothy 2:6 (post Judgment for the wicked as Mercy only Triumphs after ‘Judgment with no Mercy is endured first’ – James 2:13, John 1:29).
What you are writing is Biblical and it refers to the Overcoming Evil part.
The Day of the Wrath and Judgment exists too and God knows whom to Heal (as Luke 4:25 – 26) and whom NOT to heal (Luke 4:27) which causes some to be ‘pissed off by God’s Judgment’ (Luke 4:28 – 30) but God “Knows” who is really sick and who is willfully sinning (e. g. Hebrews 10:26).
The ‘Pharisees’ were ‘sick in sin’ too but Lord Jesus Christ doesn’t say that they won’t be Judged at all.
In fact Proper Biblical Exegesis denies neither afterlife Judgment nor Redemption by Mercy thereafter.
For example, the ‘sick’ Pharisees are condemned to “Gehenna first” (Matthew 23:33, Matthew 12:32, Matthew 10:28) but are hinted to enter His Kingdom of the Heavens thereafter (Matthew 21:31) eventually (Matthew 5:19) but NOT inherit it at all (1 Corinthians 6:9 – 11) but remain in the ‘outside the city or kingdom of God regions as long as God Wills’ (Revelation 21:27).
Conclusion
When we die, only believers in Faith of Jesus Christ do not come under any afterlife Judgment (John 5:24) because we have already been judged on earth prior in our temporal life (Hebrews 12:6 – 8, 1 Corinthians 11:32, Deuteronomy 8:5, Job 5:17 – 18).
Is this entire exegesis my private interpretation?
No. Please consider St. Irenaeous of Lyons and St. Justin Martyr themselves implying this ‘order of Retributive Judgment followed by Restoration Judgment’:
1) First Step – Current Afterlife Judgments when we die in our souls (Hebrews 9:27, Luke 16:19 – 31, Isaiah 3:11).
(i) Righteous
For the righteous, after they die, Irenaeous says that their SOULS go to an INTERMEDIATE PLACE (e.g. ‘Abraham’s Bosom’ in Luke 16:19 – 31 or ‘Paradise’ in Luke 23:43) where there is NEVER JUDGMENT (or ‘no’ afterlife Judgments as Christ Revealed in John 5:24):
“For it is manifest that those acts which are DEEMED RIGHTEOUS are performed in bodies. Either, therefore all SOULS will of necessity pass into the INTERMEDIATE PLACE, and there will NEVER be a JUDGMENT; or bodies, too, which have participated in righteousness, will attain to the place of enjoyment, along with the SOULS which have in like manner participated, if indeed righteousness is powerful enough to bring thither those substances which have participated in it. And then the DOCTRINE concerning the RESURRECTION of BODIES which WE BELIEVE …” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 2, Chapter XXIX, Point 2)
(ii) Wicked
Afterlife Judgments are Real as Justin quotes the ‘essence of thought in regard to these ancients who did speak in like manner in regards to this fact’; please consider Justin’s own words below:
“But since sensation remains to all who have ever lived, and eternal [age-during] punishment is laid up (i.e., for the wicked), … – let these persuade you that even AFTER DEATH SOULS are in a STATE of SENSATION; and those who are seized and cast about by the SPIRITS of the DEAD, whom all call daemoniacs or madmen; and what you repute as oracles, both of Amphilochus, Dodana, Pytho, and as many other such as exist; and the opinions of your authors, Empedocles and Pythagoras, Plato and Socrates, and the pit of Homer, and the descent of Ulysses to inspect these things, and all that has been UTTERED of a LIKE KIND …” (Justin Martyr, First Apology, CHAPTER XVIII — PROOF OF IMMORTALITY AND THE RESURRECTION)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html
Justin confirms Luke 16:19 – 31 as literal and an immediate Judgment now after Death:
Justin affirms their “Idea of the afterlife spirit world” ——> in his words, “to inspect these things, and all that has been UTTERED of a LIKE KIND” —–> referring to “AFTER DEATH SOULS are in a STATE of SENSATION; and those who are seized and cast about by the SPIRITS of the DEAD”.
Justin confirms that the “age-during punishment” is at the end of the age post ‘resurrection of judgment’ (John 5:28 – 29) toward the wicked before His Great White Throne (Revelation 20:11 – 15) —-> in his words, “and eternal [age-during] punishment is laid up (i.e., for the wicked),”.
Please note the following separation in Justin’s words above:
“But since sensation remains to all who have ever lived, and eternal [age-during] punishment is laid up (i.e., for the wicked),”
MEANS
Temporal Afterlife Judgment – NOW:
‘But since sensation remains to all who have ever lived’ = “AFTER DEATH SOULS are in a STATE of SENSATION; and those who are seized and cast about by the SPIRITS of the DEAD”.
Followed by the Final Judgment – At the End of the Age:
“and eternal [age-during] punishment is laid up (i.e., for the wicked),”
Yes, Justin affirms that upon death, the SOULS of the “good” are in blessed abodes while the SOULS of the “wicked” are in punishment abodes:
“… Doctrine of Plato; and while we say that there will be a burning up of all, we shall seem to utter the doctrine of the Stoics: and while WE AFFIRM that the SOULS of the WICKED, being endowed with SENSATION even AFTER DEATH, are PUNISHED, and that those [SOULS] of the GOOD being delivered from punishment spend a BLESSED EXISTENCE, …” (Justin Martyr, CHAPTER XX — HEATHEN ANALOGIES TO CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html
2) Second Step – Final Afterlife Judgment in the Lake of Fire or Gehenna in a resurrected body for those still unrepentant and wicked (John 5:28 – 29, Revelation 20:11 – 15, Matthew 10:28, Galatians 6:7)
3) Third Step – Restoration and the Reconciliation of All Things with Mercy Triumphing and ending afterlife Judgments but only after the ‘judgment with no mercy is endured first by some – James 2:13’ (Acts 3:21, Colossians 1:20, Malachi 3:2).
“… Proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His [FUTURE] manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father “to GATHER ALL THINGS in ONE,” and to RAISE UP ANEW ALL FLESH of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, “every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and THINGS UNDER the EARTH, and that every tongue should confess” to Him, …” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter X.-Unity of the Faith of the Church Throughout the Whole World, Point 1).
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html
Please note this phrase ‘carefully’ in the above —–> “to RAISE UP ANEW ALL FLESH of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE” —–> including the THINGS UNDER the EARTH or in HELL or LAKE of FIRE or GEHENNA or HADES even now —> which proves Universal Salvation for “All Men” eventually —-> because the phrase “RAISE UP ANEW ALL FLESH” ——> cannot refer to the first ‘resurrected flesh for Judgment toward the wicked’ (John 5:28 – 29) —–> simply because in Irenaeous’ own words, during Judgment, the ‘first resurrection of the wicked for Judgment’ is with their ‘OLD sinful flesh*’ ——-> (and NOT ‘a new flesh’ as it is described above toward the WHOLE or ALL Human Race eventually proving that for the wicked) —–> there must be a ‘second resurrection to obtain this HOPE of a NEW FLESH’ (Acts 24:15) as part of the being MADE ALIVE part of Christ’s Resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:21) which applies to ALL MEN (1 Corinthians 15:22) including them too.
*(Point 10b later where only the righteous’ Old Flesh is HEALED and the wicked remain in IDENTICAL BODIES for JUDGMENT without being Healed or Restored to Sinless-ness, implied).
This is how St. Irenaeous of Lyons himself UNDERSTANDS the Universal Salvation part pertaining to ALL MEN PROPHETICALLY in his ‘own words’ from the above (agreeing PERFECTLY to 1 Timothy 2:4 – KJV, 1 Timothy 4:10 and the Sibyline Oracles too – in obedience to 2 Peter 1:20 as well):
“to GATHER ALL THINGS in ONE,” (Ephesians 1:9 – 10) = “and to RAISE UP ANEW ALL FLESH of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE” (in the Context of All Men, as John 17:2 – 3 means this too as part of God making ALL things NEW in the Context of ALL MEN too, Revelation 21:5).
How do we know, that the above is for the FUTURE, hence a PROPHETIC Statement?
Please note that Irenaeous quotes the Context of Ephesians 1:9 – 10 first, i.e. to ‘Gather All things in One’ which in Ephesians 1:10 itself records as the ‘dispensation of the fulness of the times – plural,’ (YLT) —> where these PLURAL – TIMES are in the FUTURE —> because do note the word ‘[FUTURE]’ in the translation above itself when Speaking of this.
Indeed, these things will be accomplished by Him in the ‘FUTURE Manifestation plural-TIMES’ by Him achieving His Will to ‘Gather All things in One in Him’ —> where a special highlight is the Context of ALL MEN or ‘every human being ever created’ —-> where Irenaeous says Prophetically that it will cause ALL MEN to be MADE ALIVE by Christ in a NEW RESURRECTED FLESH (‘sinless’, implied in agreement to 1 Corinthians 15:21 – 22, Romans 5:18 – 19) —> in Irenaeous’ words, ‘RAISE UP ANEW ALL FLESH of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE’ (eventually).
Since we understand now that SALVATION refers to being RESURRECTED in a SINLESS FLESH to LIVE, a ‘second resurrection’ for the ‘wicked must thus be in place after the second death’ (though the phrase ‘second resurrection for the wicked’ is NOT explicitly stated in Scripture). The Infamous Verse below which speaks of ALL MEN to be SAVED points to this HOPE too:
“Who [God] WILL HAVE ALL MEN to be SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 2:4, KJV)
“according as Thou didst give to Him authority over ALL FLESH, that — ALL that Thou hast GIVEN to Him — He may GIVE to them life age-during;” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 17:2, YLT)
[God] WILL HAVE ALL MEN to be SAVED (1 Timothy 2:4) = ALL MEN will eventually be Resurrected in a SINLESS FLESH (John 17:2).
Yes, Irenaeous hints that the JUST JUDGMENT of God makes ALL THINGS —-> GOOD (including the WICKED – please note this word ‘carefully’ in the below – in ‘his own words’):
” has the Lord said: “Judge not, that ye be not judged: for with what judgment ye shall judge, ye shall be judged.” [The meaning is] not certainly that we should not find fault with sinners, nor that we should consent to those who act wickedly; but that we should not pronounce an unfair judgment on the dispensations of God, inasmuch as He has Himself made provision that all things shall turn out for good, in a way consistent with justice.” (Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XXX, Point 3)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
I repeat, with EMPHASIS in [brackets] too for clarity:
“… has the Lord said: “Judge not, that ye be not judged: for with what judgment ye shall judge, ye shall be judged.” [The meaning is] NOT certainly that we should NOT find fault with SINNERS, nor that we should consent to THOSE who act WICKEDLY; but that we should NOT PRONOUNCE an UNFAIR JUDGMENT on the DISPENSATIONS of God, inasmuch as HE has Himself MADE PROVISION that ALL [Created] THINGS SHALL TURN out for GOOD, in a WAY CONSISTENT with JUSTICE. …” (Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XXX, Point 3)
Isn’t it obvious that Irenaeous is explaining that “Pronouncing” the “Fair Judgment of God” —–> toward SINNERS and the WICKED —–> includes understanding the “dispensations (time)” God has Prepared —-> to make ALL CREATED THINGS (including these SINNERS and WICKED aforementioned – Context) to be GOOD again —–> (proving that EVIL will cease to exist eventually) —-> in a way which is CONSISTENT with JUSTICE.
Shouldn’t we preach the SAME about the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT of GOD?
Please note that the ‘first resurrection of Judgment for the wicked’ (John 5:28 – 29) in “age-during fire” of Gehenna (Matthew 10:28) or Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:11 – 15) is with their OLD BODIES being REUNITED with THEIR SPIRIT (and is NOT Referring to the Second Resurrection of the Wicked which is implied or referred to earlier in a FLESH which is NEW, the NEW FLESH being DIFFERENT as God Makes ALL THINGS NEW – Revelation 21:5 – 8, which is understood to be post this Judgment in the Lake of Fire in these set of Verses too – implied – as God Wills – discussed prior) as Justin declares below to this Point “accurately” (a ‘fine detail’):
” WE say that the SAME thing will be done, but at the hand of Christ, and upon the WICKED in the SAME BODIES UNITED AGAIN to THEIR SPIRITS which are now to undergo everlasting [AGE-DURING] punishment; and not only, as Plato said, for a period of a thousand years. And if any one say that this is incredible or impossible, this error of ours is one which concerns ourselves only, and no other person, so long as you cannot convict us of doing any harm.” (Justin Martyr, CHAPTER VIII — CHRISTIANS CONFESS THEIR FAITH IN GOD, First Apology)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html
First Resurrection of the Wicked for Final Judgment (John 5:28 -29) = “WICKED in the SAME BODIES UNITED AGAIN to THEIR SPIRITS which are now to undergo everlasting [AGE-DURING] punishment” (Justin Martyr)
4) Irenaeous – Paternal Light of God – True Faith – Christ SAVES from HELL itself
Irenaeos affirms that the Christian Universalist Context of ‘All Things’ to refer to ‘All Created things’ is right and it implies the SALVATION of MEN even from HELL or the ‘regions under the earth’ too.
“Truly, then, the Scripture declared, which says, “First of all believe that there is one God, who has established ALL THINGS, and completed them, and having caused that from what had no being, ALL THINGS should come into EXISTENCE: “He who contains ALL THINGS, and is Himself contained by no one.
Rightly also has Malachi said among the prophets: “Is it not one God who hath established us? Have we not all one Father? ” In accordance with this, too, does the apostle say, “There is one God, the Father, who is above all, and in us all.” Likewise does the Lord also say: “ALL THINGS are delivered to Me by My Father; ” manifestly by Him who MADE ALL THINGS; for He did not deliver to Him the things of another, but His own. But in ALL THINGS [it is implied that] NOTHINGS has been KEPT BACK [from Him], and for this reason the same person is the Judge of the living and THE DEAD;
“having the key of David: He shall Open, and no man shall shut: He shall shut, and no man shall open.” For no one was able, either in heaven or in earth, or UNDER THE EARTH, to OPEN the BOOK of the FATHER, or to behold Him, with the EXCEPTION of the LAMB who was slain, and who redeemed us with His own Blood, receiving POWER over ALL THINGS from the same God who made ALL THINGS by the Word, and adorned them by [His] Wisdom, when “the Word was made flesh; “that even as the Word of God had the SOVEREIGNTY in the heavens, so also might He have the SOVEREIGNTY in earth, inasmuch as [He was] a righteous man, “who did no sin, neither was there found guile in His mouth; ”
and that He might have the pre-eminence over THOSE THINGS which are UNDER THE EARTH, He Himself being made “the first-begotten of the dead; ” and that ALL THINGS, as I have ALREADY SAID, might behold THEIR KING; and that the PATERNAL LIGHT might meet with and rest upon the flesh of our Lord, and come to us from His resplendent flesh, and that thus MAN might attain to IMMORTALITY, having been invested with the PATERNAL LIGHT.” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XX, Point 2)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
Please note these words ‘carefully’ from the above which hints on Christ Saving from HELL, often termed as the ‘regions under the earth’ (now it’s HADES’ punishment regions but in the future this can refer to the LAKE of FIRE regions):
‘THOSE THINGS which are UNDER THE EARTH’ —->and that ALL THINGS —> as I have ALREADY SAID, might behold their THEIR KING; and that the PATERNAL LIGHT —–> ‘that thus MAN might attain to IMMORTALITY’.
Deep, isn’t it?
Bonus: How about the Sons of God vs Sons of the Devil distinction?
The ‘sons of the God’ vs ‘sons of the Devil’ argument is NOT a permanent one but one referred to TEMPORARILY due to one’s ‘choice & action & faith’. This is NOT an eternal state as our eternal Hell proponents profess as Saint Irenaeous himself refutes this ancient heresy as follows (which proves that ‘all are still His Children but some have rebelled’), to quote:
“… According to nature, then -that is, according to creation, so to speak-we are ALL sons of God, because we have ALL been CREATED by GOD. But with RESPECT to OBEDIENCE and DOCTRINE we are NOT all the sons of God: those only are so who believe in Him and do His will. And those who do not believe, and do not obey His will, are SONS and angels of the DEVIL, because they do the works of the devil. And that such is the case He has declared in Isaiah: “I have begotten and brought up CHILDREN, but they have REBELLED against Me.” And again, where He says that these CHILDREN are ALIENS: “Strange CHILDREN have lied unto Me.” According to NATUE, then, they are [His] CHILDREN, because they have been so CREATED; but with regard to THEIR WORKS, they are NOT His children.” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XLI, Point 2)
“For as, among men, those sons who DISOBEY their fathers, being DISINHERITED, are STILL THEIR SONS in the course of NATURE, but by LAW are DISINHERITED, for they do NOT become the HEIRS of their natural parents; so in the SAME WAY is it with God,-those who do NOT OBEY Him being DISINHERITED by Him, have CEASED to be His sons. Wherefore they CANNOT RECEIVE His INHERITANCE…” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XLI, Point 3)
The Context in which Holy Scripture is clear as Irenaeous implies the Paternal Love of the Father that ALL are HIS SONS due to being CREATED by HIM, hence HIS CHILDREN.
However, in regards to ‘obedience and doctrine’, the ‘sons of the Devil are those who disobey and hence do NOT inherit His Kingdom’ (1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10, e.g. may just ‘enter only’ to live in some OUTSIDE permitted regions of the ‘kingdom of the heavens’ and NOT the heavens, please take note ‘carefully’, being the ‘least’ due to Command-Breaking Matthew 5:19) vs in Contrast, ‘His Sons of obedience & doctrine’ INHERIT His Kingdom (e.g. highest positions such as KING & PRIESTS too, Revelation 1:6, Ephesians 3:6 and beyond!, 1 Corinthians 2:9 being the ‘Great’ in His Kingdom of the Heavens too, Matthew 5:19).
5) Justin Martyr
Justin Martyr affirms this Truth of Salvation toward ALL MEN eventually – both the righteous and the wicked
” did the Saviour come, as He says, “I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” Since, then, the flesh has been proved to be valuable in the sight of God, and glorious above all His works, it would very justly be saved by Him. We must meet, therefore, those who say, that even though it be the special handiwork of God, and beyond all else valued by Him, it would not immediately follow that it has the promise of the resurrection.
Yet is it not absurd, that that which has been produced with such circumstance, and which is beyond all else valuable, should be so neglected by its Maker, as to pass to nonentity? Then the sculptor and painter, if they wish the works they have made to endure, that they may win glory by them, renew them when they begin to decay; but God would so neglect His own possession and work, that it becomes annihilated, and no longer exists. Should we not call this labour in vain? As if a man who has built a house should forthwith destroy it, or should neglect it, though he sees it falling into decay, and is able to repair it: we would blame him for labouring in vain; and should we not so blame God? But not such an one is the Incorruptible,–not senseless is the Intelligence of the universe. Let the unbelieving be silent, even though they themselves do not believe.
But, in truth, He has even called the flesh to the resurrection, and promises to it everlasting life. For where He promises to save man, there He gives the promise to the flesh. For what is man but the reasonable animal composed of body and soul? Is the soul by itself man? No; but the soul of man. Would the body be called man? No, but it is called the body of man. If, then, neither of these is by itself man, but that which is made up of the two together is called man, and God has called man to life and resurrection, He has called not a part, but the whole, which is the soul and the body.
For it had its salvation from itself; so that in saving the soul, God does no great thing. For to be saved is its natural destiny, because it is a part of Himself, being His inspiration. But no thanks are due to one who saves what is his own; for this is to save himself. For he who saves a part himself, saves himself by his own means, lest he become defective in that part; and this is not the act of a good man. For not even when a man does good to his children and offspring, does one call him a good man; for even the most savage of the wild beasts do so, and indeed willingly endure death, if need be, for the sake of their cubs. But if a man were to perform the same acts in behalf of his slaves, that man would justly be called good. Wherefore the Saviour also taught us to love our enemies, since, says He, what thank have ye? So that He has shown us that it is a good work not only to love those that are begotten of Him, but also those that are without. And what He enjoins upon us, He Himself first of all does.” (St. Justin Martyr, CHAPTER VIII.–DOES THE BODY CAUSE THE SOUL TO SIN? FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-resurrection.html
Can you see it?
Based on the above please consider ‘carefully’ the gems of Wisdom found in Justin’s ‘own words’ above with EMPHASIS mine in [brackets above too] (re-quoted below):
(i) What is the meaning of Resurrection?
Resurrection = Soul (with Spirit) returning to the Body, to quote:
“… spirit of the dead man has returned,.. the resurrection from the dead.” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 2, Chapter XXXI, Point 2)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html
“For it is manifest that those acts which are deemed righteous are performed in bodies. Either, therefore all SOULS will of necessity pass into the intermediate place, and there will never be a judgment; or bodies, too, which have participated in righteousness, will attain to the place of enjoyment, along with the SOULS which have in like manner participated, if indeed righteousness is powerful enough to bring thither those substances which have participated in it. And then the DOCTRINE concerning the RESURRECTION of BODIES which WE BELIEVE …” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 2, Chapter XXIX, Point 2)
“If He had no need of the flesh, why did He heal it? And what is most forcible of all, He raised the dead. Why? Was it not to show what the RESURRECTION should be? How then did He RAISE the DEAD? Their SOULS or their BODIES? Manifestly BOTH… He had thus shown them that there is truly a RESURRECTION of the FLESH, wishing to show them this also, that it is NOT IMPOSSIBLE for FLESH to ascend into HEAVEN (as He had said that our dwelling-place is in heaven), “He was taken up into HEAVEN while they beheld,” as He was in the FLESH.” (Justin Martyr, ‘On the Resurrection’, CHAPTER IX.–THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST PROVES THAT THE BODY RISES)
(ii) What is the meaning of SALVATION?
“obtaining as the outcome of your faith the SALVATION of your SOULS.” – apostle Peter (1 Peter 1:9, NASB)
SALVATION of your SOULS toward those ‘in faith’ = Resurrected to Life in the flesh without any afterlife Judgments (John 5:24).
Firstly, Justin Martyr affirms that the FLESH is SAVED when it is RESURRECTED [to sinless-ness, implied]:
” … did the Saviour come, as He says, “I am not come to call the righteous, but SINNERS to REPENTANCE.” Since, then, the FLESH has been proved to be valuable in the sight of God, and glorious above all His works, it would very justly be SAVED by Him. We must meet, therefore, those who say, that even though it [the FLESH] be the special handiwork of God, and beyond all else valued by Him, it [the FLESH] would not immediately follow that it has the promise of the RESURRECTION.” (St. Justin Martyr, CHAPTER VIII.–DOES THE BODY CAUSE THE SOUL TO SIN? FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION)
(iii) Can the FLESH pass into ANNIHILATION or NON-EXISTENCE?
Justin did NOT believe in NON EXISTENCE type of ANNIHILATION of the ‘Body + Soul’ which is to be Destroyed in Gehenna even (Matthew 10:28) but only that the ‘sin & evil’ in it be gone into NON-EXISTENCE (implied as ‘this sin & evil’ is what is Destroyed till it ceases to exist in the Body + Soul during the Lake of Fire Judgment). Please consider:
“Yet is it not absurd, that that which has been produced with such circumstance, and which is beyond all else valuable, should be so neglected by its Maker, as to pass to NONENTITY? Then the sculptor and painter, if they wish the works they have made to endure, that they may win glory by them, RENEW THEM when they begin to DECAY; but God would so neglect His own possession and work, that it becomes ANNIHILATED, and NO longer EXISTS. Should we not call this labour in vain? As if a man who has built a house should forthwith DESTROY it, or should NEGLECT it, though he sees it falling into DECAY, and is ABLE to REPAIR it: we would blame him for labouring in vain; and should we not so blame God? But not such an one is the INCORRUPTIBLE,–NOT SENSELESS is the INTELLIGENCE of the universe. Let the unbelieving be silent, even though they themselves do not believe.” (St. Justin Martyr, CHAPTER VIII.–DOES THE BODY CAUSE THE SOUL TO SIN? FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION)
It is clear in the above that Justin is using the analogy of an earthly painter where if he is able, he will RENEW that which DECAYS and likewise a man who sees his house falling into DECAY would also REPAIR it —> in the Context of explaining the ‘Salvation of the Soul’ (Topic here as the paragraphs surrounding it prove – as quoted at the start of point 5).
Hence Justin Concludes that the Incorruptible God would likewise NOT Destroy the Soul into NONENTITY or NONEXISTENCE till it is ANNIHILATED and NO LONGER EXISTS (Disproving the ‘Annihilation View of Hell Theory’) —> and NEITHER would God, Justin implies Who being INTELLIGENT and ABLE to both RENEW and REPAIR would cause any of His Work toward ‘all souls’ which are His (Ezekiel 18:4) to continue in DECAY of SIN FOREVER (Disproving the ‘Eternal View of Hell Theory) —> but rather goes on to Imply the only Rational Conclusion from Justin’s Own Words in that He believes in a God Who WILL both RENEW and REPAIR ALL SOULS (be it wicked or righteous, as ‘all souls truly belongs to Him’, Ezekiel 18:4) despite ‘death or decay’ in which some must endure first (Approving the Universal Salvation View of Purgatorial Hell as it was held by St. Clement of Alexandria or even St. Gregory of Nyssa too).
Note: The ‘Body + Soul’ Destroyed in Gehenna (Matthew 10:28) must thus refer to ‘sin and evil being completely destroyed in it’ and NOT the ‘non-existence of either’ where Justin’s own words above explains it proving that he did NOT believe in ‘complete annihilation’ and neither did Irenaeous either (quoted below) as some scholars err by claiming otherwise due to NOT understanding these ‘fine details’ (implied) in their ‘own arguments’:
“For since there are real men, so must there also be a real establishment (plantationem), that they vanish not away among non-existent things, but PROGRESS among those which have an ACTUAL EXISTENCE. For NEITHER is the SUBSTANCE NOR the ESSENCE of the CREATION ANNIHILATED (for Faithful and True is He Who has ESTABLISHED it), but “the FASHION of the WORLD PASSETH AWAY; ” that is, THOSE THINGS among which TRANSGRESSION has OCCURRED, since MAN has grown OLD in them. And therefore this [present] FASHION has been formed TEMPORARY, God Foreknowing all things;…” (Irenaeous, Book 5, Chapter XXXVI, Point 1)
It’s obvious in the above that Irenaeous points to the ‘temporal age-during fashion’ of things —> which refers to ‘SIN and its effects’ (where ‘transgression’ has occurred) in such CREATION —> which will be PROGRESSED into a NEW FASHION for the quote ‘Faithful and True’ ties it up to God MAKING ALL THINGS NEW (to be free from this ‘former taint of sin & its effects, decay’) as Revelation 21:5 Majestically Declares. Wonderful News isn’t it?
(iv) Did Justin believe in the Salvation of ALL MEN?
Yes.
“For it had its SALVATION from itself; so that in SAVING the SOUL, God does no great thing. For to be saved is its natural destiny, because it is a part of Himself, being His inspiration. But no thanks are due to one who saves what is his own; for this is to save himself.
For he who SAVES a part himself, saves himself by his own means, lest he become defective in that part; and this is not the act of a good man. For not even when a man does good to HIS CHILDREN and offspring, does one call him a good man; for even the most savage of the wild beasts do so, and indeed willingly endure death, if need be, for the sake of their cubs.
But if a man were to perform the SAME ACTS in behalf of his SLAVES, that man would justly be called good. Wherefore the Saviour also taught us to LOVE our ENEMIES, since, says He, what thank have ye? So that He has shown us that it is a GOOD work not only to love THOSE that are BEGOTTEN of Him, but also THOSE that are WITHOUT [i.e. ‘not’ Begotten of Him, implied]. And what He enjoins upon us, He Himself FIRST of ALL DOES.” (St. Justin Martyr, CHAPTER VIII.–DOES THE BODY CAUSE THE SOUL TO SIN? FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION)
Please note ‘carefully’ that Justin implies that God Saving ‘His Own Begotten or Children is NOT a big deal’. Justin then proceeds to argue that Christ is above ALL because He Promises to Perform the SAME ACTS toward ‘His Slaves’ too and lastly toward HIS ENEMIES as well in the Beautifully Analogy above —> as the only Context of this Passage is ‘where the SOUL is SAVED eventually in its EXISTENCE’ —-> toward becoming “RESURRECTED in the FLESH’ again —-> in the Context of LOVE and GOODNESS, and ‘not Judgment’ —> toward His ENEMIES too —-> yes, the Context of the passage above proves that the SAME RESURRECTION to SINLESS-NESS being Promised thus in LOVE toward —-> BOTH ‘THOSE that are BEGOTTEN of Him’ —-> and ‘also THOSE that are WITHOUT [i.e. ‘not’ Begotten of Him, implied] —> proving that this must refer to the ‘not explicitly mentioned (though implied) second resurrection of the wicked’ toward ‘sinless-ness’ —> post the Lake of Fire Judgment (which follows after their ‘first resurrection for Judgment’, John 5:28 – 29 —-> and this GOOD and LOVE toward His ENEMIES, in saving ‘their souls to exist’ eventually in a ‘resurrected sinless body’ —> will certainly come to pass, as Justin remarks in faith, ‘He Himself FIRST of ALL DOES’.
6) Can Christ Save from Hades now?
According to 1 Peter 4:5 – 6 and 1 Peter 3:18 – 20, it is entirely POSSIBLE though not all may be Saved (God Alone Decides that – to be Fair for He knows ‘all hearts’).
In the following, Irenaeous points to this Truth (the first part) and accuses the DEVIL to have DECEIVED MARCION on (the second part) where Marcion claims that ‘the righteous of old did not receive Christ’s Preaching at Hades because they were suspicious of Him and so their souls continued to remain in the regions of Hades’. Please read ‘carefully’ to ‘realize’ this:
“… saying all things in direct opposition to the truth,-that Cain, and those like him, and the Sodomites, and the Egyptians, and others like them, and, in fine, all the nations who walked in all sorts of abomination, were saved by the Lord, on His descending into Hades, and on their running unto Him, and that they welcomed Him into their kingdom. But the serpent which was in Marcion declared that Abel, and Enoch, and Noah, and those other righteous men who sprang from the patriarch Abraham, with all the prophets, and those who were pleasing to God, did not partake in salvation. For since these men, he says, knew that their God was constantly tempting them, so now they suspected that He was tempting them, and did not run to Jesus, or believe His announcement: and for this reason he declared that their souls remained in Hades..” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 1, Chapter XXVII, Point 3)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html
So, the TRUTH is Christ SAVED whomever that BELIEVED and RECEIVED Him in HADES (be it the righteous or wicked) though they may be sent to ‘higher or lower’ abodes next upon being saved with their ‘souls’, to quote:
(i) Christ Saved the Righteous SOULS from the Past from Hades
How did St. Irenaoeus of Lyons understand 1 Peter 3:18 – 20?
“… but IMMEDIATELY upon His expiring on the Cross, undoubtedly DEPARTED on HIGH [in His SOUL to Paradise, Luke 23:43], LEAVING His BODY to the earth. But the case was, that for three days He dwelt in the PLACE where THE DEAD were, as the prophet says concerning Him: “And the Lord remembered His dead saints who slept formerly in the land of sepulture; and He DESCENDED to them, to RESCUE and SAVE them.” And the Lord Himself says, “As Jonas remained three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth.”…” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XXXI)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
(ii) Christ Saved the Righteous SOULS from the Past from Hades with NO afterlife Judgment
“It was for this reason, too, that the Lord DESCENDED into the REGIONS BENEATH the earth, PREACHING His Advent there also, and [declaring] the remission of sins received by those who believe in Him. Now all those believed in Him who had hope towards Him, that is, those who proclaimed His advent, and submitted to His dispensations, the RIGHTEOUS men, the prophets, and the patriarchs, to whom He REMITTED sins in the SAME way as He did to us, which sins we should NOT lay to their charge, if we would not despise the Grace of God.” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XXVII, Point 2)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
(iii) Christ Saved the Wicked SOULS from the Past from Hades but only POST afterlife Judgment
‘… the spirits in Prison’ (1 Peter 3:18 – 20).
“It was for this reason, too, that the Lord DESCENDED into the REGIONS BENEATH the earth, PREACHING His Advent there also, … For as these men [Righteous Hebrews of the Past] did not impute unto us (the Gentiles) our transgressions, which we wrought BEFORE CHRIST was MANIFESTED among us, so also it is NOT right that we should lay BLAME upon those who SINNED BEFORE Christ’s coming.
For “all men come short of the glory of God,” and are not justified of themselves, but by the advent of the Lord,-they who earnestly direct their eyes towards His light. And it is for our instruction that their actions have been committed to writing, that we might know, in the first place, that our God and theirs is one, and that SINS do NOT please Him although committed by men of renown; and in the second place, that we should keep from wickedness. For if THESE MEN of OLD TIME, who PRECEDED us in the gifts [bestowed upon them], and for whom the Son of God had NOT yet suffered, WHEN they COMMITTED ANY SIN and SERVED FLESHY LUSTS, were RENDERED of such DISGRACE, what shall the MEN of the PRESENT day suffer, who have despised the Lord’s coming, and become the slaves of their own lusts? And truly the DEATH of the Lord became [the means of] HEALING and REMISSIONS of SINS to the FORMER, …” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XXVII, Point 2)
Irenaeous Teaches that ‘even the Wicked’ men from the PAST TIMES (‘before Christ’) were given an opportunity to be ‘Saved’ during His Advent as the phrases ‘it is NOT right that we should lay BLAME upon those who SINNED BEFORE Christ’s coming’, ‘WHEN they COMMITTED ANY SIN and SERVED FLESHY LUSTS, were RENDERED of such DISGRACE’ and ‘he DEATH of the Lord became [the means of] HEALING and REMISSIONS of SINS to the FORMER’ implies.
(iv) How about now?
1 Peter 4:5 – 6 allows this Possibility toward ‘some’ whilst others only after the Final Judgment at Gehenna (Lake of Fire). The Shepherd of Hermas Writing mentions that the 40 apostles + teachers descended likewise into the ‘spirit world’ after their earthly deaths too to preach the Gospel and as a result ‘the righteous in good works but did not believe in Christ on earth during their lives prior’ (Sheepfold2) had an opportunity likewise. It’s discussed in Great Detail with ‘other relatively early authorities of doctrine’ regarding this Mystery and more in post below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/secrets-of-the-gospel-being-preached-to-the-dead/
(v) A WARNING
Irenaeous WARNS that those who ‘reject Christ willingly now’ may NOT have that ‘chance’ at all (how to decide that? Only God Decides that for He Alone ‘weighs all hearts’):
“… but Christ shall not die again in behalf of THOSE who NOW commit SIN, for death shall no more have dominion over Him; but the Son shall come in the glory of the Father, requiring from His stewards and dispensers the money which He had entrusted to them, with usury; and from those to whom He had given most shall He demand most. We ought not, therefore, as that presbyter remarks, to be puffed up, nor be severe upon those of old time, but ought ourselves to FEAR, lest perchance [REPENTANCE], AFTER [we have come to] the KNOWLEDGE of CHRIST, if we DO things DISPLEASING to God, we obtain NO further FORGIVENESS of SINS, but be SHUT OUT from His KINGDOM. And therefore it was that Paul said, “For if [God] spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest He also spare not thee, who, when thou wert a wild olive tree, wert grafted into the fatness of the olive tree, and wert made a partaker of its fatness.” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XXVII, Point 2)
“… And that it is better to believe even what is impossible to our own nature and to men, than to be unbelieving like the rest of the world, we have learned; for we know that our Master Jesus Christ said, that “what is impossible with men is possible with God,” and, “Fear not them that kill you, and after that can do no more; but fear Him who AFTER DEATH is able to cast BOTH SOUL and BODY into HELL [Gehenna].” And HELL [Gehenna] is a place where those are to be punished who have LIVED WICKEDLY, and who do NOT BELIEVE that those things which God has taught us by Christ will come to pass.” (Justin Martyr, First Apology, CHAPTER XIX — THE RESURRECTION POSSIBLE)
7) How to understand Eternity?
St. Irenaeous seems to mean that “Immortality” means “a long series of ages”:
NO Eternal Life is Granted in One Aeon or One Age – The Eternal Age Heresy – Understanding Immortality Correctly.
Body and Soul do NOT exist forever but are subject to God granting its existence from ‘age to age’ or ‘aeon to aeon’, that is from ‘one aeon to the next’:
” … But ALL THINGS which proceed from Him, WHATSOEVER have been MADE, and are made, do indeed receive their own beginning of generation, and on this account are INFERIOR to Him who formed them, inasmuch as they are not unbegotten. Nevertheless THEY ENDURE, and EXTEND their EXISTENCE into a LONG SERIES of AGES in accordance with the WILL of GOD their Creator; so that He GRANTS them that they should be thus formed at the beginning, and that they should so exist afterwards.” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXXIV.-Souls Can Be Recognised in the Separate State, and are Immortal Although They Once Had a Beginning, Point 2)
I repeat, please note these phrases ‘carefully’ from Irenaeous’ own words (NOT mine) which proves this claim Irrefutably for ‘Sound Doctrine’:
ALL THINGS which proceed from Him, WHATSOEVER have been MADE —> are INFERIOR to Him who formed them —> THEY ENDURE, and EXTEND their EXISTENCE —> into a LONG SERIES of AGES —-> [Ages or Aeons – Can you see the Plural ‘ages to come’ or ‘aeons to come’ theory true even for ‘future ages’ as per Ephesians 2:7?) —-> in accordance with the WILL of GOD their Creator, so that He GRANTS them.
This is an Important point to ‘Understanding Immortality Correctly’ as St. Irenaeous Beautifully explains above.
8.) Is Universal Salvation Endorsed?
Yes by Justin Martyr himself as he declares for example that the ‘Sibyl’ (or Sibyline Prophesies to be ACCEPTED as TRUE) and also that the Doctrine of AFTERLIFE JUDGMENT and PUNISHMENT of the WICKED as even PLATO taught (is in agreement with the Biblical Prophets – as pointed out in an earlier post) which SUPPORTS the ‘Punishment for Betterment Concept’ (the meaning of the word ‘kolasin’ in Matthew 25:46) where the Ultimate AIM is GOOD and SALVATION only despite ‘the severity of Judgment which must be endured first’ before MERCY Triumphs over and ENDS it (please read ‘carefully’ Justin’s quote below agreeing to all this):
“And the SIBYL and Hystaspes said that there should be a DISSOLUTION by God of things CORRUPTIBLE. And the philosophers called Stoics teach that even God Himself shall be RESOLVED into FIRE, and they say that the WORLD is to be FORMED ANEW by this revolution; but we understand that God, the Creator of ALL THINGS, is superior to the things that are to be changed. If, therefore, on some points we teach the same things as the poets and philosophers whom you honour, and on other points are fuller and more divine in our teaching, and if we alone afford proof of what we assert, why are we unjustly hated more than all others? For while we say that all things have been produced and arranged into a world by God, we shall seem to utter the DOCTRINE of PLATO; and while we say that there will be a BURNING up of ALL, we shall seem to utter the doctrine of the Stoics: and while we affirm that the SOULS of the WICKED, being endowed with sensation even after death, are punished, and that those of the good being delivered from punishment spend a blessed existence, we shall seem to say the same things as the poets and philosophers; and while we maintain that men ought not to worship the works of their hands, we say the very things which have been said by the comic poet Menander, and other similar writers, for they have declared that the workman is greater than the work.” (Justin Martyr, First Apology, CHAPTER XX — HEATHEN ANALOGIES TO CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE)
Some key points:
An Example of the Judeo-Christian Sibyline Oracle agreeing to Universal Salvation is Illustrated with Verse Mapping in link below for Edification:
Basically, Justin Martyr is pointing out the part where ‘others got the doctrine right too’ when compared with the ‘true Christian doctrine’. Can you see it?
9) First Resurrection
What is the First Resurrection?
Irenaeous, Hippolytus and Justin affirm that the First Resurrection refers to only those who believe in the Faith of Jesus Christ & it’s sometimes called the ‘Resurrection of the Righteous’ or the ‘Resurrection of the Just’ (1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 17, Luke 14:14). The quotes from Irenaeous, Hippolytus and Justin Martyr proving this claim is has been done already in my previous write – up. Only those in Christ will Reign for 1000 years during this Last Day of the First Resurrection since these are raised at the start hour ‘now is’ (John 5:25) on this Last Day of this age.
This Resurrection of the rest of the Dead do NOT come with a body till this 1000 years are over (Revelation 20:5, 7). So, at the last hour of this Last Day called the ‘hour is coming’ another group of righteous vs wicked are raised ‘simultaneously’ (John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2). Please note that only the ‘hour is coming’ is mentioned in John 5:28 – 29.
Both the ‘hour now is’ and ‘hour is coming’ is mentioned in John 5:25 because it is a Prophetic Statement referring to TWO groups of righteous, namely Sheepfold1 (John 10:14) vs Sheepfold2 (John 10:16) who are ‘Raised to Life’ during these two separate ‘start & end hour of this Last Day respectively’ which are ‘separated by 1000 years’. Can you see it?
That’s what is LITERALLY Written in the Bible.
This poses a problem for the current traditional view because they do NOT have any hope for a ‘Sheepfold2’ (another badge of righteous) who are ‘righteous in good works’ as Christ Himself mentioned (John 5:28 – 29, Matthew 25:31 – 46). To become a sheep, they must have believed in Christ and thus Sheepfold2 must have believed in Christ in the ‘afterlife abodes’. Is this Possible?
The Shepherd of Hermas Writing (which is only next to New Testament Scripture) clearly records the Gospel being Preached to ‘certain dead’ who ‘died in Good deeds’ but did NOT believe in Christ during their earthly lives prior, as they didn’t have the Seal of God. The Shepherd of Hermas is NOT discussing Christ’s Descent but some 40 apostles + teachers who after they died, went into the afterlife abodes to ‘convert these’. Mysterious Indeed but it’s LITERALLY recorded as discussed in detail in links below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/shepherd-of-hermas-afterlife-judgment-visions/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/shepherd-of-hermas-afterlife-judgment-and-repentance-faq/
The ‘believing after seeing’ Mystery is Possible as it is echoed in John 6:40 and John 3:14 – 15 but it’s NOT for all but only on those whom the Lord deems His Mercy for He weighs all hearts to decide that (The afterlife Context is strong in these Verses, John 3:14 – 15 since the Son of Man is ‘Lifted Up’ Points to the ‘Spirit World’ & Post His Resurrection).
10) General Resurrection
What is the General Resurrection?
The rest of the dead did NOT come to life till the 1000 year Millennial Reign of Christ is Completed (Revelation 20:5, 7). There is a GENERAL RESURRECTION which happens just after these 1000 years on the last hour on this Last Day (John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2) just before the Great White Throne of Judgment next (Revelation 20:11 – 15, Matthew 25:31 – 46).
It is a well known Fact in Theology itself noted by scholars that the earliest and most authoritative earliest leaders of the church (post the apostles & their presbyters) such as Irenaous of Lyons, Justin Martyr and even Hippolytus of Rome believed in this clearly (as I already proved it by their ‘own quotes’ too in my earlier write up), to quote:
“The most striking point in the eschatology of the ante-Nicene age is the prominent chiliasm, or millenarianism, that is the belief of a visible reign of Christ in glory on earth with the risen saints for a thousand years, before the general resurrection and judgement. It was indeed not the doctrine of the church embodied in any creed or form of devotion, but a widely current opinion of distinguished teachers, such as Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Methodius, and Lactantius, while Caius, Origen, Dionysius the Great, Eusebius (as afterwards Jerome and Augustin) opposed it.” (Schaff, Philip, History of the Christian Church, Volume 2. Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, p. 381)
What’s the problem here?
The popular traditional view does NOT believe in the LITERAL interpretation of John 5:28 – 29 or Daniel 12:2 especially in that BOTH the RIGHTEOUS and WICKED are said to be Resurrected SIMULTANEOUSLY.
This is because if the Christians are already Raised 1000 years earlier (Revelation 20:4 – 6, 1 Thessalonians 4:16), then (they claim that) it must be that ‘only the wicked must rise’ during this time. This is a DIRECT CONTRADICTION to our Blessed Saviour’s OWN Words in John 5:28 – 29 since He says that they RISE SIMULTANEOUSLY. So, they come up with a ‘mad made excuse that it must be symbolic and we cannot take both John 5:28 – 29 & Daniel 12:2 Literally’. Can you who is ‘changing’ the meaning of Scripture against what is plainly Written?
If they take it LITERALLY, then a question arises: Who are the ‘righteous’ in John 5:28 – 29 or Daniel 12:2 if it’s not Christians?
Based on the Discussion above & in earlier write ups, it is highly probable that:
The Popular Traditional View CANNOT accept this because they do NOT have a concept of God Saving in the afterlife or even the Gospel being Preached there even. However, we have demonstrated with Verses & early church writings in links prior pointing to this interpretation of Scripture using 1 Peter 3:18 – 20, 1 Peter 4:6 and even Prophetic in Psalm 107:10 – 15 as Irenaeous clearly calls the ‘shadow of death’ regions to refer to where the ‘souls of the dead are’.
So, is there an authoritative writing describing the GENERAL RESURRECTION pointing to BOTH a group of RIGHTEOUS vs WICKED being raised LITERALLY which would put to silence the ‘popular symbolic’ interpretation and hence strengthening the ‘Sheepfold2’ Claim? Yes, to quote:
“… Again, He called Lazarus “with a loud voice, saying, Lazarus, come forth; and HE that WAS DEAD came forth bound with bandages, feet and hands.” This was SYMBOLICAL of that MAN who had been BOUND in SINS. And therefore the Lord said, “Loose him, and let him depart.” As, therefore, THOSE who were HEALED were MADE WHOLE in THOSE MEMBERS which had in TIMES PAST been AFFLICTED; and the DEAD ROSE in the IDENTICAL BODIES, their limbs and bodies receiving health, and that life which was granted by the Lord, who prefigures eternal [age-during] things by temporal, and shows that it is He who is Himself able to extend BOTH HEALING and LIFE to HIS HANDIWORK, that His words concerning its [future] RESURRECTION may also be believed; so also at the END, when the Lord utters His voice “by the last trumpet,” the dead shall be raised, as He Himself declares: “The HOUR SHALL COME, in which ALL THE DEAD which are in the TOMBS shall hear the voice of the Son of man, and shall come forth; those that have DONE GOOD to the RESURRECTION of LIFE, and those that have DONE EVIL to the RESURRECTION of JUDGMENT.” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XIII, Point 1)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
Please note that the ‘General Resurrection’ for the wicked = First resurrection of the wicked for Judgment in their same old bodies as Justin pointed out earlier.
I Repeat with EMPHASIS & Explanation the quotes above in parts for clarity:
“HE that WAS DEAD came forth” = Beginning with the Afterlife Context referring to the General Resurrection
“SYMBOLICAL of that MAN who had been BOUND in SINS” = Irenaeous reveals the Allegorical Meaning here where such a man is most likely a non-Christian (Context established, Sheepfold2) as Christians are set free from sins when they believe & die & become a soul in the afterlife (Sheepfold1, 1 John 3:9, Romans 6:11, Romans 6:7 – 8, Romans 6:14).
“extend BOTH HEALING and LIFE to HIS HANDIWORK” = God can SAVE any one of the remaining dead as He Alone Decides MERCY (Romans 9:15 – 16).
“so also at the END” = END of this Current AGE1, AFTER the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ as evil & sinners exist till the end of this AGE1, (Revelation 20:7) who are BURNED UP (Revelation 20:8 – 9) before being ‘Resurrected for Judgment’ (John 5:28 29, Daniel 12:2) on Judgment Day next before His Great White Throne (Revelation 20:11 – 15, Matthew 13:49).
“THOSE who were HEALED were MADE WHOLE in THOSE MEMBERS which had in TIMES PAST been AFFLICTED” = Sheepfold2 may have endured afterlife Judgments for their unbelief prior to being Saved by Him or believing the Gospel there in the afterlife which may mean that in TIMES PAST these been AFFLICTED but now are SET FREE and HEALED during this Resurrection to Life = Toward THE DEAD which are in the TOMBS … those that have DONE GOOD to the RESURRECTION of LIFE.
“ALL THE DEAD which are in the TOMBS” = All the remaining dead who were NOT part of the First Resurrection which was 1000 years earlier (Revelation 20:5, 1 Thessalonians 4:13, John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2).
” those that have DONE EVIL to the RESURRECTION of JUDGMENT” = First Resurrection of the Wicked for Judgment in Gehenna or the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:11 – 15, Matthew 10:28, Matthew 25:31 – 46).
So, it’s clear that Irenaeos’ writing points to a LITERAL understanding of John 5:28 – 29 and NOT a ‘symbolic’ one. He does NOT define who the righteous are in John 5:28 – 29 but it seems stronger to point to Sheepfold2 when these authoritative writings are ‘taken together with Scripture’ especially since Justin Martyr (as pointed out in earlier write up) clearly points to ALL CHRISTIANS to be part of the FIRST RESURRECTION which is 1000 years earlier.
Peace to you. Hope remains in Lord Jesus Christ.
P/S: What if some Christian scholars claim that Judgment is like going to the hospital only?
Judgment is not a questionaire or a diagnosis.
The wicked will be resurrected for the Final Judgment with a body + soul + spirit (meaning of ‘resurrection of judgment’, do “not Marvel”, John 5:28 – 29) but only the ‘body + soul’ will be destroyed in Gehenna or the Lake of Fire (Matthew 10:28) during this Great White Throne Judgment (1 Peter 4:5) but they will live in ‘their spirit state’ to God first (1 Peter 4:6), yes ‘their spirit’ being saved Mercifully as God Wills after their ‘body + soul with their own sins is destroyed’ (1 Corinthians 5:5).
St. Irenaeous calls Gehenna as the Lake of Fire and also treats the Book of Revelation (especially Revelation 20:11 – 15) literally and he also takes the Rich Man and Lazarus Judgment literally too —-> I trust his exegesis against any scholars who ‘don’t believe it or take these symbolically’.
They will all believe when they ‘see’ it too after they die. St. Irenaeous does not err as he was the hearer of Polycarp who was the disciple of apostle John himself who heard Christ directly and wrote Revelation 20:11 – 15 too.
“Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?” (Lamentations 3:39, KJV)
Peace to you
Age or Aeon – Unbelief – Age-During Chastisement – Justin – Universal Salvation – Irenaeous
1) Will the Wicked really be Punished?
“He shall come from heaven with glory, accompanied by His angelic host, when also He shall raise the bodies of all men who have lived, and shall clothe those of the worthy with immortality, and shall send those of the wicked, endued with eternal sensibility, into everlasting fire with the wicked devils. And that these things also have been foretold as yet to be, we will prove. By Ezekiel the prophet it was said: “Joint shall be joined to joint, and bone to bone, and flesh shall grow again; and every knee shall bow to the Lord, and every tongue shall confess Him.” And in what kind of sensation and punishment the wicked are to be, hear from what was said in like manner with reference to this; it is as follows: “Their worm shall not rest, and their fire shall not be quenched;” and then shall they repent, when it profits them not.” (Justin Martyr, CHAPTER LII — CERTAIN FULFILMENT OF PROPHECY, First Apology)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html
I repeat with EMPHASIS:
“He [Lord Jesus Christ] shall come from heaven with glory, accompanied by His angelic host, when also He shall RAISE the BODIES of ALL MEN who have lived [John 5:28 – 29], and shall clothe THOSE of the WORTHY with IMMORTALITY, and shall send those of the WICKED, endued with eternal [AGE-DURING] SENSIBILITY, into everlasting [AGE-DURING] fire with the wicked devils. And that these things also have been foretold as yet to be, we will prove. By Ezekiel the prophet it was said: “Joint shall be joined to joint, and bone to bone, and flesh shall grow again; and every knee shall bow to the Lord, and every tongue shall confess Him.” And in what kind of SENSATION and punishment the WICKED are to be, hear from what was said in like manner with reference to this; it is as follows: “Their WORM shall NOT REST, and their FIRE shall NOT be QUENCHED;” and THEN SHALL THEY REPENT, when it PROFITS them NOT.” (Justin Martyr, CHAPTER LII — CERTAIN FULFILMENT OF PROPHECY, First Apology)
What does it mean?
(i) Justin Martyr clearly affirms the ‘Conscious Punishment’ of the Wicked in the Lake of Fire
His Phrase: ‘SENSATION, SENSIBILITY’
(ii) Justin Martyr affirms that the Wicked Endure Punishment to that Particular AGE or AEON, AGE2.
His Phrase: ‘WICKED, endued with eternal [AGE-DURING] SENSIBILITY, into everlasting [AGE-DURING] fire’.
(iii) How Serious is this ‘continuous punishment’ which ‘lasts to that age’?
His Phrase: ‘Their WORM shall NOT REST, and their FIRE shall NOT be QUENCHED’.
(iv) What is the Purpose of the Lake of Fire?
To bring about REPENTANCE eventually.
His Phrase: ‘THEN SHALL THEY REPENT’.
(v) Does this repentance profit the wicked?
His Phrase: ‘it PROFITS them NOT’.
(vi) Does this mean that this punishment lasts forever since the repentance of the wicked does NOT profit them?
No. It means that by repenting, it does NOT stop their punishment as they MUST ENDURE till the LAST PENNY as Justin says elsewhere regarding the ‘duration of the punishment’ (Context of Duration described):
“… But there were also some private SINNERS who had committed GREAT CRIMES. And these, when they thought they were to ASCEND, the MOUTH would NOT PERMIT, but bellowed when any of those who were so INCURABLY WICKED attempted to ASCEND, UNLESS they had PAID the FULL PENALTY….” – Justin Martyr (CHAPTER XXVII – PLATO’S KNOWLEDGE OF THE JUDGEMENT, JUSTIN’S HORTATORY ADDRESS TO THE GREEKS)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-hortatory.html
Justin Martyr clearly describes the ‘Near Death Hell-like experience’ attributed to Plato’s knowledge to be similar and in agreement to the Prophets too (in the above chapter) —-> in that even toward the ‘most wicked’ men (though severe & serious) —–> it lasts only till the ‘full penalty’ after which they ‘may ascend’ (which seems to refer to the Hope of Resurrection – to be ‘made Alive in Christ’ inferred from 1 Corinthians 15:22 as a “HOPE” toward the Wicked too, Acts 24:15 as part and puzzle beyond the afterlife Judgment to the ‘last Penny’ which must be endured by these first – AGREEING BIBLICALLY to Luke 12:59).
It also means that by ‘repenting eventually’, the wicked will NOT obtain any inheritance in His Kingdom.
(vii) But isn’t the Punishment Forever upon the Wicked since their bodies are Raised as “Immortal”?
The “Wicked” are NOT raised IMMORTAL at all. This is a Popular Fallacy as even Justin’s ‘own words’ in the passage above describes as follows:
” … He shall RAISE the BODIES of ALL MEN who have lived [John 5:28 – 29], and shall clothe THOSE of the WORTHY with IMMORTALITY, …” = only the ‘Resurrection to Life’ consists of Immortality as ‘part of it’ as the phrase THOSE WORTHY (limited-ness) —-> and NOT all obtain ‘Immortality’.
The Wicked are raised to ‘age-during sensibility’ —-> hence ‘their resurrected for Judgment bodies’ last ONLY to THAT particular AGE or AEON, namely AEON2. Can you see it? as Justin contrasts and uses the ‘different’ word (namely, AEON or AGE-DURING) entirely to describe it.
How can we be sure?
“… when He shall raise all men from the dead, and appoint SOME to be INCORRUPTIBLE, IMMORTAL, and free from sorrow in the everlasting [AGE-DURING] and imperishable kingdom; but shall send others away to the everlasting [AGE-DURING] punishment of fire …” (Justin Martyr CHAPTER CXVII, DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Yes, only some attain IMMORTALITY and NOT all —> to live in the AEONIAN Kingdom (the Good Prepared by God for those TIMES of His KINGDOM) while the rest are in AEONIAN or AGE-DURING Chastisements accordingly (seen only when ‘literally’ translated from the original Greek – Justin and Ireneaous wrote ‘originally’ – which we can infer from the the ‘oldest surviving Latin Manuscripts’ even based on the ‘translation habits’ & the Verses in the Bible using these ‘actual Greek Words’).
2) Unbelievers – Is their Punishment Forever?
(i) Fire NOT quenched; and the WORM that does NOT die.
Please note that the Devil (Satan) and his angels (devils) are punished longer than one AGE (or AEON), namely to the “AGES (AEONS) – plural” and this distinction is clear in Holy Scripture (e. g. Revelation 20:10).
Some men’s “smoke” (referring to their “dead bodies” or Carcasses with NO soul or NO spirit will burn to the AGES or AEONS, Revelation 14:11, Isaiah 66:24) —-> though their actual “conscious punishment” (to their SOUL lasted only to the “SINGULAR-AGE (AEON)”) as Matthew 25:46 reveals.
In contrast the Devil’s (Satan’s) TORMENT and ‘not smoke’ (different phrases – different meanings – a ‘fine detail’ for accurate exegesis) —-> lasts to the AGES (AEONS) as the ‘same phrase’ exists describing this in both Revelation 14:11 and Revelation 20:10. Can you see the INCREDIBLE ACCURACY of Scripture?
Who claims this?
Justin Martyr himself ‘defines this’. Please consider:
“… but some injunctions and acts were likewise mentioned in REFERENCE to the MYSTERY of CHRIST, on account of the hardness of your people’s hearts. And that this is so, God makes known in Ezekiel, [when] He said concerning it: ‘If Noah and Jacob and Daniel should beg either sons or daughters, the request would not be granted them.’ And in Isaiah, of the VERY SAME MATTER He spake thus: ‘The Lord God said, they shall both go forth and look on the MEMBERS [of the BODIES] of the MEN that have TRANSGRESSED. For their WORM shall NOT die, and their FIRE shall NOT be QUENCHED, and they shall be a gazing-stock to ALL FLESH.’ So that it becomes you to ERADICATE this HOPE from YOUR SOULS, and hasten to know in what way forgiveness of sins, and a HOPE of INHERITING the PROMISED GOOD THINGS, shall be yours. But there is no other [way] than this,–to become acquainted with this Christ, to be washed in the fountain spoken of by Isaiah for the remission of sins; and for the rest, to live sinless lives.”… ” (Justin Martyr, DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO, CHAPTER XLIV)
How? [all from Justin’s own words, quoted from the above]
He said concerning it —> in REFERENCE to the MYSTERY of CHRIST —> ‘If Noah and Jacob and Daniel should beg either sons or daughters, the request would not be granted them.’ —> VERY SAME MATTER —-> MEMBERS [of the BODIES] of the MEN that have TRANSGRESSED —> their WORM shall NOT die, and their FIRE shall NOT be QUENCHED —-> they shall be a gazing-stock to ALL FLESH —-> you to ERADICATE this HOPE from YOUR SOULS —> a HOPE of INHERITING the PROMISED GOOD THINGS.
What does this Passage refer to?
Revelation 14:10 reveals that these who receive the mark of the beast shall be tormented (with their souls, afterlife context – implied and believed to last into the next age or aeon, AGE2 as per Matthew 24:56) but the ‘smoke’ referring to these ‘pieces or parts of their bodies’ (and NOT souls) burns longer into the duration of ‘ages of Ages’ as God Wills (if we take these passages LITERALLY).
Really? Let’s Consider Justin again (in another passage):
“… But we will NOT receive it of all YOUR NATION; since we know from Isaiah that the MEMBERS of THOSE who have TRANSGRESSED shall be consumed by the WORM and UNQUENCHABLE FIRE, remaining IMMORTAL; so that they become a spectacle to ALL FLESH. … has shown that THOSE who were SELECTED out of every NATION have OBEYED His will through Christ,–whom He CALLS ALSO Jacob, and names Israel,–… He allots the SAME INHERITANCE to them, and does not call them by the same name; but when He says that they as GENTILES rejoice with His people, … WORTHY of knowing His will, and of inheriting His inheritance.” (Justin Martyr, CHAPTER CXXX, DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO)
Is God Fair in this? Here’s Justin (yet again):
“… And besides, they beguile themselves and you, supposing that the everlasting [AGE-DURING, AGE1] KINGDOM will be assuredly given to those of the dispersion who are of Abraham AFTER the FLESH, although they be sinners, and faithless, and disobedient towards God, … And Ezekiel: ‘Even if Noah, and Jacob, and Daniel were to pray for sons or daughters, their request should not be granted.’ … And again Isaiah says: ‘They shall look on the CARCASSES of THEM that have TRANSGRESSED: their WORM shall NOT cease, and their FIRE shall NOT be QUENCHED; and they shall be a spectacle to ALL FLESH.’ … ‘They shall come from the east, and from the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness.’ Furthermore, I have proved in what has preceded,” that those who were foreknown to be unrighteous, whether men or angels, are not made wicked by God’s fault, but each man by his own fault is what he will appear to be.” (Justin Martyr, CHAPTER CXL,DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO)
(ii) Does this Disprove Universal Salvation?
I don’t think so. It only proves further that some have part in the First Resurrection while others do NOT (Revelation 20:4 – 6, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 17).
The next badge of resurrection is followed by the General Judgment after these 1000 years are up (Revelation 20:5, 7, John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2).
Salvation = the SOUL or SPIRIT being MADE ALIVE in a SINLESS BODY = a FLESH which is MADE ANEW by God which is PROPHETICALLY echoed by Irenaeous toward the WHOLE HUMAN RACE (no one excluded – ‘eventually’ into the ‘future dispensations of time’ – as explained in a previous write-up):
Restoration and the Reconciliation of All Things with Mercy Triumphing and ending afterlife Judgments but only after the ‘judgment with no mercy is endured first by some – James 2:13’ (Acts 3:21, Colossians 1:20, Malachi 3:2).
“… Proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His [FUTURE] manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father “to GATHER ALL THINGS in ONE,” and to RAISE UP ANEW ALL FLESH of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, “every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and THINGS UNDER the EARTH, and that every tongue should confess” to Him, …” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter X.-Unity of the Faith of the Church Throughout the Whole World, Point 1).
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html
Please note the following ‘carefully’ in the above:
His [FUTURE] manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father “to GATHER ALL THINGS in ONE = Includes, ‘RAISE UP ANEW ALL FLESH of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE’.
What is the ‘Context’ of ‘ALL FLESH’ in the above?
RAISE UP ANEW ALL FLESH = the WHOLE HUMAN RACE, eventually.
Eventually? = His [FUTURE] manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father “to GATHER ALL THINGS in ONE.
(iii) Are UNBELIEVERS are cast off to the next AGE or AEON only, AGE2 (agreeing say to Matthew 12:32) and ‘not forever’?
Here’s a DIRECT answer to this question which proves (yet again) that the “Lake of Fire or Gehenna” Judgments (Revelation 20:11 – 15) toward “unbelieving men too” (Revelation 21:8) are to the “next (future) singular-age ONLY, Biblically in say Matthew 25:41 or Matthew 25:46 and NOT Forever as so popularly erred”.
Who says so?
The REAL Authority of Doctrine & Biblical Koine Greek itself, ‘a king of True Christian Theology’, St. Irenaeous of Lyons himself in the following ‘in his own words’ (“irrefutable”):
Please consider:
“… For Paul does not say, “the God of this world,” as if recognising any other beyond Him; but he confessed God as indeed God. And he says, “the unbelievers of this world,” because they shall not inherit the future age of incorruption …” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 3, Point 1)
I repeat with EMPHASIS for Clarity [in Brackets too, showing the “Original Greek Word: Aeon or “age” occurring in 2 Corinthians 4:4, Matthew 25:46, Matthew 25:41 or even Matthew 12:32]
“… For Paul does not say, “the God of this world [AGE, AEON],” as if recognising any other beyond Him; but he confessed God as indeed God. And he [apostle Paul] says, “the UNBELIEVERS of this world [AGE, AEON],” because they [UNBELIEVERS] shall NOT INHERIT the FUTURE AGE [AEON] of incorruption [SINLESSNESS] …” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 3, Chapter VII, Point 1)
Indeed, in the above it is evident that (in Irenaeous’ OWN WORDS’ that:
the UNBELIEVERS of this world [AGE, AEON, AGE1] —-> because they [UNBELIEVERS] shall NOT INHERIT —–> the FUTURE AGE [AEON, AGE2] of incorruption [SINLESSNESS].
Irenaeous clearly makes a distinction and understands the CURRENT AGE (AEON, AGE1) vs the NEXT AGE (AEON, AGE2) vs the “ages to come” (e. g. Ephesians 2:7, AGE2, AGE3…) as explained in detail in earlier write ups too agreeing to all this.
If he [Irenaeous] understands it thus belonging to the “True Faith”, we shouldn’t understand it differently. Yes, NO adding NOR removing from the Blessed Word of God is seen in his ‘Genius Level Exegesis’ but ONLY EXACTLY stating Holy Scripture as “it is Written”.
Please note carefully this punishment for “unbelievers”, namely that they are cast out for EXACTLY one FUTURE AGE [or next AEON, AGE2] —-> not inheriting the “incorruption” which is being raised in a “sinless resurrection of flesh” proving again irrefutably also that the “resurrection of judgment” toward the ‘wicked’ (in John 5:28 – 29) refers to their ‘identical bodies’ still in “sin” (“corruptible”) and NOT in any form of ‘incorruptibility’ as our dear ‘eternal hell’ theologians err so easily.
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
3) Who is Irenaeous?
To quote:
‘Irenaeus (/ɪrɪˈneɪəs/;[1] Greek: Εἰρηναῖος Eirēnaios; c. 140 – c. 202 AD)[2] was a Greek cleric noted for his role in guiding and expanding Christian communities in what is now the south of France and, more widely, for the development of Christian theology by combatting heresy and defining orthodoxy. Originating from Smyrna, now Izmir in Turkey, he had heard the preaching of Polycarp,[3] who in turn was said to have heard John the Evangelist.’
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus
4) Irenaeous affirms the Correct and Accurate reading of apostle Paul
All Translations from Book 3 are from this Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
Example: ‘AGE-during’ or ‘AEONION’ lasting Chastisement to the AGE (or AEON) only within this ‘same chapter’ (Context).
“… know not how to read Paul. … And he says, “the unbelievers of this world,” because they shall not inherit the future age of incorruption … So therefore, in such passages, the hyperbaton must be exhibited by the reading, and the apostle’s meaning following on, preserved; and thus we do not read in that passage, “the god of this world,” but, “God,” whom we do truly call God; and we hear [it declared of] the unbelieving and the blinded of this world, that they shall not inherit the world of life which is to come.” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 3, Chapter VII, Point 1 & Point 2)
I repeat with EMPHASIS:
“… know NOT how to read [apostle] Paul. … And he [apostle Paul] says, “the unbelievers of THIS AGE, [AEON, AGE1],” because they shall NOT INHERIT the FUTURE AGE [AEON, AGE2] of Incorruption … So therefore, in such passages, the hyperbaton must be exhibited by the reading, and the apostle’s meaning following on, preserved; and thus we do NOT read in that passage, “the god of THIS AGE, [AEON, AGE1],” but, “God,” whom we do truly call God; and we hear [it declared of] the UNBELIEVING and the BLINDED of THIS AGE, [AEON, AGE1], that they shall NOT INHERIT the AGE [AEON, AGE2] of life which is TO COME [next AGE, next AEON, Future – AGE2].” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 3, Chapter VII, Point 1 & Point 2)
Please note that Irenaeos basically ‘repeats himself twice’ in the above that the ‘unbelieving’ of THIS CURRENT AGE, AEON1 —> shall NOT inherit ‘life’ & ‘incorruption’ in the NEXT AGE, AEON2 and that there is also at least AEON3 (based on Ephesians 2:7) proving that the next AEON2 is NOT eternal as explained by Irenaeous’ own writing too (in the previous post below – under the Topics, ‘Aeons of the Aeons – ages of Ages – St. Irenaeous of Lyons on the Eternal Age Heresy’ and ‘All Things – Aeons – Salvation of All – Secrets from St. Irenaeous of Lyons’ – for example):
The Greek Word for ‘World’ is Different, called ‘Cosmos’ (e,g. in John 3:16) and can occur in the SAME Sentence with the Greek Word AEON (or AGE) proving that the ‘man made excuse’ of sometimes needing to render the meaning of ‘AEON as WORLD’ to be completely BASELESS – ‘a man made excuse’ (supported by NON-Scriptural Sources of myths and Greek mythologies or un-inspired and un-authoritative mere ‘secular writings’ whom such ‘scholars prefer’ over Scripture and the real authorities such as Irenaeos – I prefer Irenaeous’ Exegesis – ‘Classic and Beautifully Deep’):
Which Verse is it? The FACTUAL Hebrews 9:26 (please see below).
An Illustration will show how weak their ‘claim’ really is: The claim that ‘AEON’ can be translated as ‘WORLD’ sometimes quoting ‘poetic and secular’ Greek literature is equivalent (in analogy to this) —-> Imagine you find an ancient ‘non-literal’ phrase ‘this woman is my world (AEON)’. Then these scholars proceed to enforce it in LITERAL Bible Sentence (Factual Statements) and claim that the word ‘world’ can also mean ‘woman’ according to Context, can you see it?
That’s ‘how’ their ‘research is done’ to claim that ‘AEON means WORLD’ —> which is NOT using Bible Verses or authorities such as Irenaeos but ‘fictional and non-literal poetic writings’ being applied to ‘Factual Biblical Statements’ —> utterly ‘OUT of CONTEXT’.
To Quote (from a previous post):
Please note that the Greek Word for “world” (Kosmos) and “ages” (Aion or Eon) has nothing to do with each other in Factual Statements as it is ‘often confused in Greek literature’ (non-factual poetic writings) as both words are found in the Factual Verse below proving distinction clearly as claimed by quoting Biblical Usage “only” (sorry but I don’t believe in Greek literature quotes, especially Fictional quotes, my faith is NOT built upon its usage in FABLES or OPINION-writings):
“since it had behoved Him many times to suffer from the foundation of the WORLD [Kosmou], but now once, at the full END of the AGES [Aionon], for putting away of sin through His Sacrifice, He hath been Manifested;” (Hebrews 9:26, YLT)
If you claim otherwise, where are the VERSES proving it? (not non-literal interpreted translations, you and I know what this means)
Source:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/age-counting-great-mystery-or-secret-of-the-ages/
If St. Irenaous understands (by his writing) that the usage of ‘AEON’ is ‘Age’ and that Immortality transcends as a ‘long period of AGES first’ and from ‘Age to Age’, so will we.
Conclusion – God’s Judgment is for CORRECTION and SALVATION of ALL
Here’s another one from Irenaeous in support of this (which is ‘generally in view of man’ – ‘context’):
“… For if MAN, who had been CREATED by GOD that he might live, after losing life, through being injured by the serpent that had CORRUPTED him, should NOT any more RETURN to LIFE, but should be UTTERLY [and for ever] ABANDONED to DEATH, God would [in that case] have been conquered, and the wickedness of the serpent would have PREVAILED OVER the WILL of GOD. But inasmuch as God is invincible and long-suffering, He did indeed show Himself to be long-suffering in the matter of the CORRECTION of MAN and the PROBATION of ALL, as I have already observed; and by means of the SECOND MAN did He bind the strong man, and spoiled his goods, and ABOLISHED DEATH, VIVIFYING that MAN who had been in a STATE of DEATH….” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’ Book 3, Chapter XXIII, Point 1)
Context?
For if MAN, who had been CREATED by GOD = Point to All Human Beings ever Created by God right?
CORRECTION of MAN = Points even to the ‘resurrection of Judgment’ (John 5:28 – 29) into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:11 – 15) too, right?
PROBATION of ALL = Points to Times appointed for Judgment & their BETTERMENT toward ‘ALL who are evil’, right?
should NOT any more RETURN to LIFE, but should be UTTERLY [and for ever] ABANDONED to DEATH = that is, if any Man remains in an ‘eternal Hell’, right?
God would [in that case] have been conquered, and the wickedness of the serpent would have PREVAILED OVER the WILL of GOD = Irenaeous seems to Speak against the Possibility of ‘eternal Hell’ to even ‘one human being ever created’. Can you see it?
But inasmuch as God is invincible and long-suffering, He did indeed show Himself to be long-suffering in the matter of the CORRECTION of MAN and the PROBATION of ALL = Sounds like all the Judgment of God, however harsh it may be (the ‘age-during fire’ or the ‘fire to the ages of Ages’) points for the PURPOSE of CORRECTION and PROBATION, against it doesn’t support ‘eternal Hell’ at all, right?
as I have already observed; and by means of the SECOND MAN [Lord Jesus Christ] did He bind the strong man [the Devil], and spoiled his goods, and ABOLISHED DEATH [eventually Death Ceases to Exist], VIVIFYING that MAN who had been in a STATE of DEATH = Christ the Second Adam will somehow VIVIFY [All Human Beings ever created – Context defined at the start] in a NEW FLESH (sinless) eventually, right?
Irenaeous continues from the ‘above’ passage after explaining some details in support of this (within this ‘same topic’ – ‘context’) next as follows:
“… Wherefore also He [God] drove him [MAN] out of Paradise, and removed him [MAN] far from the tree of life, not because He envied him the tree of life, as some venture to assert, but because He pitied him [MAN], [and did NOT desire] that he [MAN] should continue a sinner for ever, NOR that the SIN which surrounded him should be IMMORTAL, and EVIL INTERMINABLE and IRREMEDIABLE. But He [God] set a BOUND to his [STATE of] SIN, by interposing death, and thus causing sin to cease, putting an END to it by the DISSOLUTION of the FLESH, which should take place in the earth, so that MAN, CEASING at length to live to SIN, and dying to it, might begin to live to God…
-indicating that SIN, which was set up and SPREAD out AGAINST MAN, and which rendered him subject to DEATH, should be DEPRIVED of ITS POWER, along with DEATH, which rules [over MEN]; and that the lion, that is, ANTICHRIST, rampant AGAINST MANKIND in the latter days, should be TRAMPLED DOWN by Him [Lord Jesus Christ]; and that He should bind “the dragon, that old serpent” and SUBJECT him to the power of man, who had been conquered so that ALL his MIGHT should be TRODDEN DOWN. Now ADAM had been conquered, all life having been taken away from him: wherefore, when the foe was conquered in his turn, ADAM received NEW LIFE; and the LAST ENEMY, DEATH, is DESTROYED, which at the first had taken possession of MAN. Therefore, WHEN MAN has been LIBERATED, “what is written shall COME to PASS, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death sting? ” This could not be said with JUSTICE, if THAT MAN, over whom death did first obtain dominion, were not set free. For HIS SALVATION is DEATH’s DESTRUCTION. When therefore the Lord VIVIFIES MAN, that is, ADAM, DEATH is at the same time DESTROYED” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’ Book 3, Chapter XXIII, Point 6, Point 7)
Examples from Irenaeous quote above (which pertains to ‘man generally’ – again):
Irenaeous Beautifully Reveals that CHRIST will be TRIUMPHANT —-> till even the ‘antichrist’ and ‘ALL the MIGHT’ of the ‘dragon’ (or ‘satan’ too) MUST END —> being TRODDEN DOWN —> and ‘not last forever in some way’, e.g. in an ‘eternal Hell’, right?
Does it refer to ADAM only?
When therefore the Lord VIVIFIES MAN, that is, ADAM, DEATH is at the same time DESTROYED = All the above Points to ALL MEN being SAVED eventually by God (1 Timothy 2:4 – KJV) till they all become SINLESS.
How?
Please read ‘carefully’ the ‘last line’ above and ‘realize’ that the ‘only context’ here is:
the Lord VIVIFIES MAN —-> refers IRREFUTABLY to —-> ADAM.
Can you see it?
MAN (ALL Men or ALL Human Beings ever Created) = ADAM in Irenaeous’ Explanation above (‘his own definition and usage’). Shocked?
Beautiful, isn’t it?
Yes,
the Lord VIVIFIES MAN (Adam) till ‘DEATH is at the same time DESTROYED’ = Points to EVERY HUMAN BEING ever Created to eventually Receive a NEW RESURRECTED FLESH eventually (John 17:2, 1 Corinthians 15:21 – 22).
Truly,
“For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our HOPE on the LIVING GOD, Who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially of believers.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 4:10, NASB)
‘believers are a more special subset for believing in Him first’, yes —-> but, God WILL SAVE ALL MEN eventually.
Can you see it now?
Peace to you
P/S: Is this ‘Real Doctrine’?
“… THEY thus WANDER from the TRUTH, because THEIR DOCTRINE DEPARTS from Him who is truly God, being IGNORANT that His only-begotten Word, Who is ALWAYS PRESENT with the HUMAN RACE, united to and mingled with His OWN CREATION, according to the Father’s pleasure, and who became flesh, is Himself Jesus Christ our Lord, who did also suffer for us, and rose again on our behalf, and who will come again in the glory of His Father, to RAISE UP ALL FLESH, and for the MANIFESTATION of SALVATION, and to apply the RULE of JUST JUDGMENT to ALL who were MADE by Him. There is therefore, as I have pointed out, one God the Father, and one Christ Jesus, who came by means of the whole DISPENSATIONAL ARRANGEMENTS [connected with Him], and GATHERED TOGETHER ALL THINGS in Himself. But in every respect, too, He is man, the formation of God; and thus He took up man into Himself, the invisible becoming visible, the incomprehensible being made comprehensible, the impassible becoming capable of suffering, and the Word being MADE MAN, thus SUMMING UP ALL THINGS in Himself: so that as in super-celestial, spiritual, and invisible things, the Word of God is supreme, so also in things visible and corporeal He might possess the supremacy, and, taking to Himself the pre-eminence, as well as constituting Himself Head of the Church, He might DRAW ALL THINGS to Himself at the PROPER TIME.” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’ Book 3, Chapter XVI, Point 6)
Please note ‘carefully’ (from the above):
Who is ALWAYS PRESENT with the HUMAN RACE —->
to RAISE UP ALL FLESH [“anew” eventually in ‘sinless-ness’ right?] = for the MANIFESTATION of SALVATION = the RULE of JUST JUDGMENT to ALL who were MADE by Him.
At Different [Future] Times according to His Will (1 Timothy 2:6):
the whole DISPENSATIONAL ARRANGEMENTS [connected with Him], and GATHERED TOGETHER ALL [Created] THINGS in Himself [Ephesians 1:9 – 10] —-> thus SUMMING UP ALL [Created] THINGS in Himself (Colossians 1:16, 20) —-> He might DRAW ALL [Created] THINGS to Himself at the PROPER TIME (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28).
Example for the Subset of All Creation —-> ALL MEN or ALL Human Beings ever created, right?
The Beautiful Prophecy by our Most Blessed Saviour Himself (‘Irrefutable’):
“And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, WILL DRAW [Drag, Fish out] ALL MEN to Myself.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 12:32, BSB)
All Glory to God – LITERALLY.
Checkmate.
Judge not, what’s the meaning?
Please allow me to quote St. Irenaeous himself:
“… therefore has the Lord said: “Judge not, that ye be not judged: for with what judgment ye shall judge, ye shall be judged.” [The meaning is] not certainly that we should not find fault with sinners, nor that we should consent to those who act wickedly; but that we should not pronounce an unfair judgment on the dispensations of God, inasmuch as He has Himself made provision that all things shall turn out for good, in a way consistent with justice…” (Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XXX, Point 3).
Please remember these four points whenever ‘we claim that we are not judging others’:
(i) Christ Who Spoke “judge not” Himself Demonstrated that the Pointed out Errors and Wickedness (e. g. To the Pharisees or the ‘common adulteress by asking her to sin no more after exercising Mercy’ —-> as Irenaeous’ Exegesis above agrees Perfectly).
(ii) Well, many theologians who disagree with say Irenaeous say that “Irenaeous is wrong” and at the same claim that they “judge not” – Aren’t such ones ‘contradicting themselves’ in ‘plain hypocrisy’?
(iii) The opponents of Irenaeous cannot bring this charge of ‘hypocrisy’ upon Irenaeous simply because Irenaeous says openly that he will point out the errors in Theology and sins of wickedness which are not taught in the Bible.
It’s only ‘hypocritical’ if Irenaeous subscribes to the ‘popular misled definition of judge not’ —-> to which he implies, ‘that’s NOT what our Blessed Lord meant’.
In light of this, we may be the ‘real modern Pharisees’ ourselves as ‘our own definition’ which we ascribe to the phrase ‘Judge not’ may ‘condemn us by our own words’ – Deep if we ‘realize it’.
(iv) Irenaeous (having been pass down the ancient apostolic authority) defines the “judge not – in the above to refer to two things” ——> namely that, ‘Just Judgment must be Spoken in a Context of TURNING ALL THINGS to GOOD eventually’ —–> and also that ‘We must Judge the Dispensations of God’ rightly, i. e. with ‘no errors in Doctrine – if possible’ (e. g. Regarding Time & Judgment correctly – Ecclesiastes 8:5).
Conclusion
We only need to fear if we judge ‘wrongly’ (1 Corinthians 5:13, 1 Corinthians 5:10) and not when we judge ‘rightly’ (1 Corinthians 5:12, 1 Corinthians 5:11) – Indeed, let God Alone Decide that One Day (John 7:24), while in the meantime please consider:
“Whoso KEEPETH the COMMANDMENT shall feel NO EVIL thing: and a WISE man’s HEART discerneth both TIME and JUDGMENT.” (Ecclesiastes 8:5, LJV)
Peace to you
P/S: A Scriptural Example of Judging ‘Wrongly’ vs Judging ‘Rightly’ in New Testament Times
(i) Judging ‘WRONGLY’ —> Judging NON-Christians, ‘Outsiders’:
“I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did NOT at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. But those who are OUTSIDE [the NON-Christians], God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES [Christians]” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 15:9, 10, 13, NASB)
(ii) Judging ‘RIGHTLY’ —-> Judging CHRISTIANS ONLY, ‘Insiders’:
“But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any SO-CALLED BROTHER [or CHRISTIAN] if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with JUDGING OUTSIDERS [i.e. NON-Christians]? Do you not JUDGE THOSE who are WITHIN the CHURCH [i.e. Christians]?” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 5:11 – 12, NASB)
(iii) What’s the Biblical Logic?
We only Judge those who ‘bear the same name as us, e.g. Christians’ —> because ‘if they preach something wrong, it gives us the bad name collectively too’.
The Bible is Perfectly Teaching that —-> ‘a human being can only Judge those with the SAME RELIGION as himself’ (1 Corinthians 15:11 – 12) and we CANNOT Judge other human beings from ‘other religions, if we are NOT part of that religion’ (implied in 1 Corinthians 15:10, 13) by apostle Paul himself.
Is the ‘Church’ Practicing this?
Evil – Doctrinal Errors and A Psychological Fallacy
Brian and theologians in his ‘thought pattern’ often appeal to ‘difficult judgment’ Verses such as ‘babies dashed upon the rock or God ordered the genocide of certain races including the slaughter of their women & children or in taking these as slaves’ —–> during Old Testament Judgment times, to claim that ‘Scripture must be fallible because they cannot believe that God Ordered or Allowed such EVIL in JUDGMENT’.
Here’s a simple Logical Explanation to why God ‘Created EVIL of JUDGMENT’ (based on Isaiah 45:7, Amos 3:6):
To quote:
I have no problem with all That. It’s called judgment where one only receives what they have done.
The Judgment part is God giving back their own evil back to themselves be it here on earth or in the afterlife at Hell (Isaiah 3:11, Galatians 6:7).
For example, the ‘babies dashed on the rock Judgment’ (Psalm 137:9) is given to them ‘that did that FIRST toward OTHERS’ (Psalm 137:8) as the Consecutive Verses (in Brackets here) prove this Fact Irrefutably.
There is NOT one Case where a terrible Judgment was done toward ‘good people’ who ‘first didn’t do those type of things toward others’.
No point in arguing that those babies were innocent because so were the babies they DASHED FIRST unto the rocks (that’s the idea of Judgment – equality – eye for an eye).
That’s a great reason why Hell exists and if anyone think he has done no ‘hurt’ or evil toward others in any way, then he need not fear (if he is speaking the ‘truth’ – that DAY will DECLARE it with FIRE – 1 Corinthians 3:13).
If any man thinks those Judgment were cruel on Judgment Day —> for argument sake —> suppose his daughter is raped and killed or smashed as a baby on the rock, would he be ‘happy’ to ‘forgive the perpetrators’ just like that?
If he says yes, may time be turned around and him be the one that is ‘raped’ and ‘smashed’ unto the rock (God can turn back time – and make you the ‘substitute’ – we shall ask Him on Judgment Day).
Source:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/evil-the-problem-of-evil/
For an even more in depth Discussion covering almost all Verses which Speak of these, please consider:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/mystery-free-will/
Conclusion
Is my claim that “evil” Spoken of ‘when it is Done by God’ (Context) —-> refers ‘ONLY to His JUDGMENT of equal measure’ (e. g. Isaiah 3:11) be it on earth or in the afterlife toward those wicked who did such evil toward others FIRST —-> a Biblical Claim supported by Earliest Authorities of Doctrine or ‘my own invention’?
It’s an Ancient Truth known by the ‘kings of Theology’, for example St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 140AD – c. 202AD).
Yes, Please consider ‘in his own words (writing)’ —-> this CONTEXT as ‘how accurately’ the Genius of Irenaeous quotes the GOD CREATING EVIL Passage —-> (Isaiah 45:7, Generally which is thus inclusive of our Amos 3:6 example or other Biblically equivalent ones – ‘Context’) —-> to refer ONLY toward God’s EQUAL JUDGMENT toward EVIL —> and NOT say, to ‘a rape or murder done by evil men FIRST’ as some of ‘Brian supporting theologians CLAIM —-> HERETICALLY toward GOD in their SHALLOW out of context “assumptions by quoting Verses which does NOT mean that at all” & other equivalent BLASPHEMIES —–> (a different context of creation’s will for free choice of good vs evil, with these JUDGMENT consequences – on earth or in the afterlife or both) —> ‘Be Careful little mouth what you speak especially in regards to God’:
“It is therefore ONE and the SAME GOD the FATHER who has prepared GOOD things with Himself for those who desire His fellowship, and who remain in subjection to Him; and who has the eternal [AGE-DURING] FIRE for the ringleader of the apostasy, the devil, and those who revolted with him, into which [fire] the Lord has declared those men shall be sent who have been set apart by themselves on His left hand.
And THIS IS WHAT has been SPOKEN by the prophet, “I am a jealous God, making peace, and CREATING EVIL things; ” thus making peace and friendship with those who repent and turn to Him, and bringing [them to] unity, but preparing for the IMPENITENT [‘unrepentant’], THOSE who SHUN the light, eternal [AGE-DURING] FIRE and OUTER DARKNESS, which are EVILS indeed to those persons who fall into them.
If, however, it were truly one Father who confers rest, and another God who has prepared the fire, their sons would have been equally different [one from the other]; one, indeed, sending [men] into the Father’s kingdom, but the other into eternal [AGE – DURING] FIRE.
But inasmuch as one and the SAME LORD has pointed out that the WHOLE HUMAN RACE shall be DIVIDED at the JUDGMENT, “as a shepherd divideth the sheep from the goats,”
and that to some He will say, “Come, ye blessed of My Father, receive the kingdom which has been prepared for you,”
but to others, “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting [AGE-DURING] FIRE, which My Father has prepared for the devil and his angels,”
one and the SAME FATHER is manifestly declared [in this passage], “making peace and CREATING EVIL things,” preparing FIT THINGS for BOTH;
as also there is ONE JUDGE sending both into a FIT PLACE, as the Lord sets forth in the parable of the tares and the wheat, where He says, “As therefore the tares are gathered together, and burned in the fire, so shall it be at the END of the world [AGE].
The Son of man shall send His angels, and they shall gather from His kingdom everything that offendeth, and those who work iniquity, and shall send them into a furnace of fire: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the just shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”
The Father, therefore, who has prepared the kingdom for the righteous, into which the Son has received those worthy of it, is He who has also prepared the furnace of fire, into which these angels commissioned by the Son of man shall send those persons who deserve it, according to God’s command.” (Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XL.-One and the Same God the Father Inflicts Punishment on the Reprobate, and Bestows Rewards on the Elect, Point 1, Point 2)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
*AGE (Noun) or AGE-DURING (Adjective) more accurately, transliterated Greek: AEON (Noun) or AEONIAN (Adjective) in the above where these words are inaccurately ‘translated’ as ‘eternal’ in the above.
Yes, Irenaeous wrote in Biblical Koine Greek, the same as the New Testament Inspired & Infallible Scripture (where New Testament Writings are Holy Scripture too due to ‘some Truths’ only being revealed during New Testament times (e. g. Colossians 1:26)).
Here’s some Earliest Church History quotes from ‘outside the Bible supporting the Infallibility of Holy Scripture’ too:
Yes, some claim that Scripture being Infallible is a ‘modern idea’ which is False.
I repeat, here’s actual Historical Proof from Church History:
Clement of Rome (A. D. 30—100)
Observe that nothing of an unjust or counterfeit [false] character is written in them (Ibid.).
Justin Martyr (A. D. 100—165)
But when you hear the utterances of the prophets spoken as it were personally, you must not suppose that they are spoken by the inspired men themselves but by the divine Word who moves them (First Apology, p. 36).
We must not suppose that the language proceeds from the men who are inspired, but from the divine Word which moves them. Their work is to announce that which the Holy Spirit, descending upon them, purposes, through them, to teach those who wish to learn the true religion (Ibid.).
To him [Moses] did God communicate that divine and prophetic gift . . . and then after him the rest of the prophets. . . . These we assert to have been our teachers, who use nothing from their own human conception, but from the gift vouchsafed to them by God alone (Justin’s Hortatory Oration to the Greeks, p. 8).
For neither by nature nor by human conception is it possible for men to know the things so great and divine, but the gift which then descended from above upon the holy men who had no need of rhetorical art, nor of uttering anything in a contentious or quarrel some manner, but to present themselves pure to the energy of the Divine Spirit, in order that the Divine plectrum itself, descending from heaven and using righteous men as an instrument like a harp or a lyre, might reveal to us a knowledge of things divine and heavenly. Wherefore, as if with one mouth and one tongue, they have in succession and in harmony with one another taught us both concerning God, and the creation of the world, and the formation of man, and concerning the immorality of the human soul, and judgment which is to be after this life, and concerning all things which it is needful for us to know, and thus in divers times and places have afforded us the divine instruction (Ibid., p. 8).
Irenaeus (Second Century A. D.)
Let us revert to the Scriptural proof furnished by those apostles who did also write the Gospel. . . . The writings of those apostles. . . being the disciples of truth, are above all falsehood (Ibid., 3.5.1).
[Heretics] adduce an unspeakable number of apocryphal and spurious writings which they themselves have forged, to bewilder minds of foolish men, and of such as are ignorant of the Scriptures of truth (Ibid., 1.20.1).
We should leave things of that nature to God who created us, being most properly assured that the Scriptures are indeed perfect, since they were spoken by the Word of God and His Spirit (Ibid., 2.28.2).
Source:
http://defendinginerrancy.com/historical-evidence-for-inerrancy/
Sorry that I have to be a little HARSH in my words above to Correct this Popular Theological Error toward “Christian Leaders” who propagate such ideas be it ‘knowingly or unknowingly’ (a wrong is still a wrong):
“This Testimony is True. For this reason REPROVE them SEVERELY so that they may be SOUND in the FAITH,” – apostle Paul (Titus 1:13, NASB)
Peace to you
P/S: Calling ‘evil good’ or ‘good evil’?
Woe to you!
Please note ‘how’ & toward ‘which Topic’ St. Justin Martyr uses the infamous phrase “Woe to them that call good evil… ” in the following:
“… WOE unto them that CALL EVIL GOOD, and GOOD EVIL; that put LIGHT for DARKNESS, and DARKNESS for LIGHT; that put BITTER for SWEET, and SWEET for BITTER!’ Accordingly, YOU [Jews] displayed GREAT ZEAL in publishing throughout all the land BITTER and DARK and UNJUST things AGAINST the only BLAMELESS and RIGHTEOUS LIGHT sent by God.
For He [Lord Jesus Christ] appeared distasteful to you when He cried among you, ‘It is written, MY HOUSE is the HOUSE of PRAYER; but ye have made it a DEN of THIEVES!’ He overthrew also the tables of the MONEY-CHANGERS in the TEMPLE, and exclaimed, ‘Woe unto you, SCRIBES and PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES! because ye PAY TITHE of mint and rue, but do NOT observe the LOVE of GOD and JUSTICE. Ye whited sepulchres! appearing beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones.’
And to the Scribes, ‘Woe unto you, Scribes! for ye have the keys, and ye do not enter in yourselves, and them that are entering in ye hinder; ye blind guides!'” (Justin Martyr, CHAPTER XVII — THE JEWS SENT PERSONS THROUGH THE WHOLE EARTH TO SPREAD CALUMNIES ON CHRISTIANS, DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Conclusion
Let us be mature to ‘not’ use Scripture ‘carelessly’ to condemn ‘those who disagree with us’ using ‘very strong Verses’ regarding Topics to which it is ‘not’ done by earliest Authorities of Doctrine such as Justin Martyr (learning from the wisdom God gave to them).
Also, every man is also quoting ‘a man’ making us EQUAL in this aspect since if you say that ‘you don’t follow any man but yourself & your own thoughts’ —> the man you follow is yourself, because ‘you are a man too’ making such ‘points redundant’. Can you see it?
Did Christ ask us to ‘imitate their faith’ or ‘follow such men who belong to Him’?
Yes, Please read ‘each of these Verses Carefully’ to ‘realize this often ignored Biblical Truth’ (a Command of God too for this New Testament Times):
1 Corinthians 11:1, Philippians 3:17, 1 Thessalonians 1:6, 1 Timothy 4:12, 1 Corinthians 4:16.
“Also, WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE the SOUL is NOT GOOD, And the hasty in feet is sinning.” (Proverbs 19:2, YLT)
Bible – Old Testament vs New Testament – Inerrant? – Hell’s Logic
The Bible is inerrant.
I reject your rejection of it.
He commanded those Judgments toward those who did that first toward others – there is no big difficulty there.
If your daughter was raped, murdered or dashed upon a rock, as a father would you just do ‘nothing and forgive’ the perpetrators if you ‘had the power to Judge them back?’
You might but God isn’t like that because He is the Perfect Father.
God Will return the same pain and evil they did on others back to them in this life or next.
God only does NOT avenge His Blood Shed on the Cross and thus He Forgives eventually.
At the Deeper Understanding level, the Old Testament vs New Testament is about God’s Will in Time, like this:
Old Testament reflects the “equal” Judgment back (e. g. ‘eye for an eye’…) which for example is signified by the afterlife Judgments.
It doesn’t end there as eventually when the last Penny is Paid (Luke 12:59), as the New Testament Declares (“Prophetically”) in Matthew 5:43 —-> the ‘Hate your enemy’ time will be over and “cancelled” (a time to “hate” – Ecclesiastes 3:8 – during “Fiery Judgment”, the Hate is inclusive of His Love for Correction – Beginning with Retribution, Isaiah 3:11, Galatians 6:7 followed by Cleansing or Restoration with “Fiery Soap”, Malachi 3:2).
I repeat, the Hate your enemy part will be over / “cancelled” implying intrisincally that “afterlife Judgments cannot be forever” (His Perfect Principles) —-> and Love your enemy “only” part, Consecutive Verse next in Matthew 5:44 comes in Permanently —> and Restores them (Universalist Verses), the “Perfect having come for each of the all”, the “previous partial” will be “Done Away”, 1 Corinthians 13:10 (Afterlife Judgment, Old Testament, Law etc. Will be over after being fulfilled, Matthew 5:17 – 19, & Vanish away, Hebrews 8:13).
The Bible is Infallible and Inerrant.
Peace to y’all
P/S: The Last Penny – Why is Hell such a long time for the Wicked?
A simple illustration: Suppose you’re a wicked person who discriminated an innocent man which affected him financially.
The effect financially is felt & suffered by that relatively innocent man and his family during his life & leaves a permanent mark to the next generations as well (good luck to the ‘Colonial Powers and like mindsets’ – Psalm 9:17).
As a murderer too, the effects of the evil done lasts into several lives (e. g. the children of the murdered person & those who loved him are in pain).
So, the wicked has to “endure” a combined effect of ‘his evil acts’ toward each person whom he wronged accordingly (which lasts way beyond his lifetime till the end of this age too, hence age-during punishment, the retribution part, Isaiah 3:11, Galatians 6:7).
If a wicked men repents on earth, he will be forgiven (Isaiah 55:7, James 5:20) except for the Blashphemy of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:32) but he might endure some earthly Judgments during this temporal life as God Decides that ‘perfectly’ before he can be ‘forgiven & received as a son of obedience in faith’ (Hebrews 12:7 – 8, Deuteronomy 8:5, 2 Samuel 7:14, Proverbs 13:24, Proverbs 19:18, 1 Corinthians 11:32).
“For nothing is hidden that will not become evident, nor anything secret that will not be known and come to light.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 8:17, NASB)
HELL makes ‘perfect sense’ when ‘understood’ correctly in ‘Light of Holy Scripture’.
“… we say that the same thing will be done, but at the hand of Christ, and upon the wicked in the same bodies united again to their spirits which are now to undergo everlasting punishment; and not only, as Plato said, for a period of a thousand years. And if any one say that this is incredible or impossible, this error of ours is one which concerns ourselves only, and no other person, so long as you cannot convict us of doing any harm.” (Justin Martyr, First Apology, CHAPTER VIII — CHRISTIANS CONFESS THEIR FAITH IN GOD).
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html
I repeat with EMPHASIS:
“… WE [Christians] say that the SAME THING WILL BE DONE, but at the HAND of CHRIST, and upon the WICKED in the SAME BODIES UNITED AGAIN to THEIR SPIRITS which are now to undergo everlasting [AGE-DURING] PUNISHMENT; and NOT only, as Plato said, for a period of a THOUSAND YEARS. And if any one say that this is incredible or impossible, this error of ours is one which concerns ourselves only, and no other person, so long as you cannot convict us of doing any harm.” (Justin Martyr, First Apology, CHAPTER VIII — CHRISTIANS CONFESS THEIR FAITH IN GOD).
Shalom
God’s Will in Judgment
God’s Will Doesn’t change in Time, it’s specified in Time (what He Will do in) :
(i) Old Testament – Retributive Judgment
(ii) New Testament – Restorative Judgments
Which Proves His Will in Afterlife Judgments too likewise (the ‘Substance in Christ’ for the Judgment Context highlighted here for the ‘shadow’ of the Two Covenants on earth).
(afterlife Context – example: Revelation 20:11 – 15).
Apostle Paul’s conversion was on earth and ‘he had to suffer many things on earth too’, Acts 9:16 (not afterlife context – whoever repents here gets judged on earth as the quoted verses prove – if not judged, we are bastards, not sons).
“But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.” (Hebrews 12:8, KJV)
Yes, God’s Love has to render the evil back to the person who did it to others first so they feel their own pain —-> they repent —-> He restores them.
What’s not from God is what is not Written in the Bible.
Simple.
There is Verse support for both His “Retributive Judgment followed by His Restorative Judgment” proving that both exists.
To preach only either of it is to ‘preach a half truth’.
P/S: Your own Words will condemn you
Let’s take it one question at a time (if some still don’t understand):
For argument’s sake, if I raped your daughter or sister would you come after me after finding out about it?
If yes, that’s the logic of Judgment and Hell. It’s not immediate in Case one repents.
If no, you must be a coward and I pity your daughter or sister.
If there’s no afterlife Judgment at all and we are all reconciled, if a rapist molested your child, would you say ‘be forgiven without any judgment’ and ‘have a tea with him thereafter’?
Also, can I just claim the ‘I am sick, please help me instead of punish me – attitude’ to escape any Judgment for my acts?
Such is the logic of Brian’s and his type of ‘thought pattern’s theology’.
Enjoy, the Antichrist might have a good time with you guys if you’re still around when he comes.
Please, ‘be careful of what you believe’.
P/S 2: Confused with Old Testament vs the New Testament?
You can deny as you want but God’s Will is both His Law and Commands in Old & New Testament Verses with respect to Time.
Christ Fulfills both the Old & New Testament.
God didn’t confuse any of you With His Old Testament Verses till you need to question it.
Unbelief – What’s the Possible Consequence of UNBELIEF?
Judas Disbelieved the First Resurrection – Hence has NO Part in it:
“… But JUDAS having been once for all CAST AWAY, NEVER RETURNS into the NUMBER of the DISCIPLES; otherwise a different person would not have been chosen to fill his place. Besides, the Lord also declared regarding him, “Woe to the man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed; ” and, “It were better for him if he [Judas] had NEVER been BORN; ” and he was called the “son of perdition” by Him…” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 2, Chapter XX, Point 5)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html
The phrase ‘never returns to the number of His Disciples’ (Sheepfold1) in the ‘above’ PROVES this CLAIM and please note ‘how’ Irenaeous defines the Context or Meaning of the Infamous ‘difficult’ phase ‘better for him (Judas) not to have been born’ —> is quoted in THIS CONTEXT of ‘missing to be a believer in Christ or being His Disciple’ —> hence missing the BEST & GREATEST CREATED THING by God —> namely ‘the First Resurrection’ as it is Discussed next (below).
In Irenaeous’ Context,
The ‘First Resurrection’ = The ‘RESURRECTION of the JUST’ which is followed by the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ on the Last or 7th Day of this Current AGE, AGE1 or AEON1 (Luke 14:14, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 17, Revelation 20:4 – 6).
To Quote (please note the phrase ”RESURRECTION of the JUST” carefully in the excerpt below):
“And these things are bone witness to in writing by PAPIAS, the hearer of JOHN, and a companion of POLYCARP, in his fourth book; for there were five books compiled (suntetagme/na) by him.
And he says in addition, “Now these things are CREDIBLE to BELIEVERS.” And he says that, “when the TRAITOR JUDAS did NOT GIVE CREDIT to them, and put the question, `How then can things about to bring forth so abundantly be wrought by the Lord? ‘the LORD DECLARED, `THEY WHO shall come to THESE [times] SHALL SEE.'”
When PROPHESYING of THESE TIMES, therefore, Esaias says: “The wolf also shall feed with the lamb, and the leopard shall take his rest with the kid; the calf also, and the bull, and the lion shall eat together; and a little boy shall lead them. The ox and the bear shall feed together, and their young ones shall agree together; and the lion shall eat straw as well as the ox. And the infant boy shall thrust his hand into the asp’s den, into the nest also of the adder’s brood; and they shall do no harm, nor have power to hurt anything in my holy mountain.”
And again he says, in recapitulation, “Wolves and lambs shall then browse together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and the serpent earth as if it were bread; and they shall neither hurt nor annoy anything in my holy mountain, saith the Lord.” I am quite aware that some persons endeavour to refer these words to the case of savage men, both of different nations and various habits, who come to BELIEVE, and WHEN they HAVE BELIEVED, act in harmony with the righteous.
But although this is [true] now with regard to some men coming from various nations to the harmony of the faith, nevertheless in the RESURRECTION of the JUST [the words shall also apply] to those animals mentioned. For God is non in all things.
And it is right that when the creation is restored, all the animals should obey and be in subjection to man, and revert to the food originally given by God (for they had been originally subjected in obedience to Adam), that is, the productions of the earth. But some other occasion, and not the present, is [to be sought] for showing that the lion shall [then] feed on straw. And this indicates the large size and rich quality of the fruits. For if that animal, the lion, feeds upon straw [at that period], of what a quality must the wheat itself be whose straw shall serve as suitable food for lions?” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XXXIII, Point 4)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
Conclusion
Let us be ‘wise’ and ‘believe’ lest we ‘miss these Greatest Created Things’ which are ONLY for ‘those who believe in Him’ —> Sheepfold1 (John 10:14).
UNBELIEF – Retributive Judgment of God – is REAL
1) Gentile Believers do NOT even need to Keep the Sabbath to Receive the Holy Inheritance of the ‘First Resurrection onward’.
Who says so?
Quotes by the ‘kings of Theology’ themselves attesting to this Biblical Truth:
“And I replied, “I do not say so; but THOSE who have PERSECUTED and do PERSECUTE CHRIST, if they do NOT REPENT shall NOT INHERIT anything on the holy mountain.
But the GENTILES, who have BELIEVED on Him, and have REPENTED of the sins which they have committed, they shall RECEIVE the INHERITANCE along with the PATRIARCHS and the PROPHETS, and the JUST MEN who are descended from Jacob, even although they NEITHER KEEP the SABBATH, NOR are CIRCUMCISED, NOR OBSERVE the FEASTS. Assuredly THEY shall RECEIVE the HOLY INHERITANCE of God…
and I have trampled them in FURY, and CRUSHED them to the ground, and SPILLED their BLOOD on the earth. For the DAY of RETRIBUTION has come upon THEM, and the YEAR of REDEMPTION is PRESENT. And I looked, and there was none to help; and I considered, and none assisted: and My arm delivered; and My FURY came on them, and I trampled them in My fury, and spilled their blood on the earth.” (Justin Martyr, DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO, CHAPTER XXVI — NO SALVATION TO THE JEWS EXCEPT THROUGH CHRIST)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
“… Be comforted, ye faint in soul: be strong, fear not. Behold, our God gives, and will give, RETRIBUTIVE JUDGMENT …” (Justin Martyr, DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO, CHAPTER LXIX — THE DEVIL, SINCE HE EMULATES THE TRUTH, HAS INVENTED FABLES ABOUT BACCHUS, HERCULES, AND SCULAPIUS)
Irenaeous has the ‘same understanding’:
“… And Isaiah declares this also, [when he says: ] “Be ye strengthened, ye hands that hang down, and ye feeble knees; be ye encouraged, ye feeble-minded; be comforted, fear not: behold, our God has given JUDGMENT with RETRIBUTION, and SHALL RECOMPENSE: He will come Himself, and will save us.” Here we see, that not by ourselves, but by the help of God, we must be saved.” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 3, Chapter XX, Point 3)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
2) When will His Retributive Judgment Occur?
“… (for it is written, “To proclaim the ACCEPTABLE YEAR of the Lord, and the DAY of RETRIBUTION”), being truly BLIND, inasmuch as they affirm they have found out the mysteries of Bythus, yet NOT UNDERSTANDING that which is called by Isaiah the ACCEPTABLE YEAR of the Lord, NOR the DAY of RETRIBUTION.
For the prophet NEITHER speaks concerning a day which includes the space of twelve hours, nor of a year the length of which is twelve months. For even they themselves acknowledge that the prophets have very often expressed themselves in parables and allegories, and [are] not [to be understood] according to the mere sound of the words.
That, then, was called the DAY of RETRIBUTION on which the Lord will RENDER to EVERY ONE according to his WORKS-that is, the JUDGMENT.
The ACCEPTABLE YEAR of the Lord, again, is THIS PRESENT TIME, in which THOSE who BELIEVE Him are CALLED by Him, and become acceptable to God-that is, the WHOLE TIME from His [first] ADVENT onwards to the CONSUMMATION [of all things], during which He acquires to Himself as FRUITS [of the scheme of mercy] those who are saved.
For, according to the phraseology of the prophet, the DAY of RETRIBUTION follows the [ACCEPTABLE] year; and the prophet will be proved guilty of falsehood if the Lord preached only for a year, and if he speaks of it.
For where is the DAY of RETRIBUTION? For the year has passed, and the DAY of RETRIBUTION has NOT YET COME; but He still “makes His sun to rise upon the good and upon the evil, and sends rain upon the just and unjust.”
And the RIGHTEOUS SUFFER PERSECUTION, are AFFLICTED, and are SLAIN, while SINNERS are POSSESSED of ABUNDANCE, and “drink with the sound of the harp and psaltery, but do NOT REGARD the WORKS of the LORD.”
But, according to the language [used by the prophet], they ought to be COMBINED, and the DAY of RETRIBUTION to follow the [ACCEPTABLE] YEAR. For the words are, “to PROCLAIM the ACCEPTABLE YEAR of the Lord, and the DAY of RETRIBUTION.”
This PRESENT TIME, therefore, in which MEN are CALLED and SAVED by the LORD, is PROPERLY UNDERSTOOD to be denoted by “the ACCEPTABLE YEAR of the Lord; “and there FOLLOWS on this “the DAY of RETRIBUTION,” that is, the JUDGMENT. ” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 2, Chapter XXII, Point 1, Point 2)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html
3) Wise Men from the Past Understood God’s Retributive Judgment too
Example: Plato
(i) Plato quoted by Irenaeous in regards to understanding the Retributive Judgment of God
“PLATO is proved to be MORE RELIGIOUS than THESE MEN, for he allowed that the SAME GOD was both Just and Good, having power over all things, and Himself EXECUTING JUDGMENT, expressing himself thus, “And God indeed, as He is also the ancient Word, possessing the beginning, the end, and the mean of all existing things, DOES EVERYTHING RIGHTLY, MOVING round about THEM ACCORDING to THEIR NATURE; but RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE ALWAYS FOLLOWS Him AGAINST THOSE who DEPART from the DIVINE LAW.”…” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 3, Chapter XXV, Point 5)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
(ii) Plato quoted by Justin Martyr in regards to understanding the Retributive Judgment of God
How did Plato understand the ‘Retributive Judgment’ of God ‘Correctly’ as it is Declared (and approved to agree to the ‘Prophets’ of God) by Justin himself?
Justin Martyr clearly describes the ‘Near Death Hell-like experience’ attributed to Plato’s knowledge to be similar and in agreement to the Prophets too —-> in that even toward the ‘most wicked’ men (though severe & serious) —–> it lasts only till the ‘full penalty’ after which they ‘may ascend’ (which seems to refer to the Hope of Resurrection – to be ‘made Alive in Christ’ inferred from 1 Corinthians 15:22 as a “HOPE” toward the Wicked too, Acts 24:15 as part and puzzle beyond the afterlife Judgment to the ‘last Penny’ which must be endured by these first – Luke 12:59).
Here’s is Justin’s writing on that:
“And in the tenth book he plainly and manifestly wrote what he had LEARNED from the PROPHETS about the JUDGMENT, not as if he had learned it from them, but, on account of his fear of the Greeks, AS IF he had heard it from a MAN who has been SLAIN in battle–for this story he thought fit to INVENT–and who, when he was about to be buried on the twelfth day, and was lying on the FUNERAL pile, CAME to LIFE AGAIN, and DESCRIBED the OTHER WORLD.
The following are his every words: “For he said that he was present when one was asked by another person where the great Ardiaeus was. This Ardiaeus had been prince in a certain city of Pamphylia, and had killed his aged father and his elder brother, and done many other unhallowed deeds, as was reported. He said, then that the person who was asked said: He neither comes nor ever will come hither.
For we SAW, among other TERRIBLE SIGHTS, this also. When we were dose to the MOUTH [of the PIT], and were about to return to the upper air, and had suffered everything else, we suddenly beheld both him and others likewise, most of whom were tyrants.
But there were also some private SINNERS who had committed GREAT CRIMES. And these, when they thought they were to ASCEND, the MOUTH would NOT PERMIT, but bellowed when any of those who were so INCURABLY WICKED attempted to ASCEND, UNLESS they had PAID the FULL PENALTY.
Then fierce men, fiery to look at, stood close by, and hearing the din,s took some and led them away; but Ardiaeus and the rest, having bound hand and foot, and striking their heads down, and flaying, they dragged to the road outside, tearing them with thorns, and signifying to those who were present the cause of their suffering these things, and that they were leading them away to cast them into Tartams. Hence, he said, that amidst all their various fears, this one was the greatest, lest the MOUTH should bellow when they ASCENDED, since if it were silent each one would most gladly ASCEND; and that the punishments and torments were such as these, and that, on the other hand, the rewards were the reverse of these.”
Here PLATO seems to me to have LEARNT from the PROPHETS not only the DOCTRINE of the JUDGMENT, but also of the RESURRECTION, which the Greeks refuse to believe. For his saying that the soul is judged along with the body, proves nothing more clearly than that he believed the doctrine of the resurrection. Since how could Ardiaeus and the rest have undergone such PUNISHMENT in HADES, had they left on earth the body, with its head, hands, feet, and skin? For certainly they will never say that the soul has a head and hands, and feet and skin. But Plato, having fallen in with the testimonies of the prophets in Egypt, and having accepted what they teach concerning the resurrection of the body, teaches that the soul is judged in company with the body.” – Justin Martyr (CHAPTER XXVII – PLATO’S KNOWLEDGE OF THE JUDGEMENT, JUSTIN’S HORTATORY ADDRESS TO THE GREEKS)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-hortatory.html
For how long?
“… WE [Christians] say that the SAME THING WILL BE DONE, but at the HAND of CHRIST, and upon the WICKED in the SAME BODIES UNITED AGAIN to THEIR SPIRITS which are now to undergo everlasting [AGE-DURING] PUNISHMENT; and NOT only, as Plato said, for a period of a THOUSAND YEARS. And if any one say that this is incredible or impossible, this error of ours is one which concerns ourselves only, and no other person, so long as you cannot convict us of doing any harm.” (Justin Martyr, First Apology, CHAPTER VIII — CHRISTIANS CONFESS THEIR FAITH IN GOD)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html
4) Does His Retributive Judgment Begins on the Last or 7th Day (Sabbath Day as Irenaeous calls it – Hebrews 4:6) after He Returns on His White Horse where it relates to the Context of ‘His Marriage’?
Yes, to quote:
“… For he who is good, and righteous, and pure, and spotless, will endure nothing evil, nor unjust, nor detestable in His wedding chamber.
THIS IS the FATHER of our Lord, by whose providence all things consist, and all are administered by His command; and He confers His free gifts upon those who should [receive them]; but the most RIGHTEOUS RETRIBUTOR metes out [PUNISHMENT] ACCORDING to THEIR DESERTS, most deservedly, to the ungrateful and to those that are insensible of His kindness; and therefore does He say, “He sent His armies, and DESTROYED those murderers, and BURNED up their city.”
He says here, “His armies,” because ALL MEN are the PROPERTY of God. For “the EARTH is the Lord’s, and the FULLNESS thereof; the WORLD, and ALL that dwell THEREIN.” …” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XXXVI.-The Prophets Were Sent from One and the Same Father from Whom the Son Was Sent, Point 6)
Comment:
You are not preferring Lord Jesus Christ, John or Paul.
Here’s a start (on Retributive Judgment):
Christ —> Matthew 23:33, Matthew 12:32, Matthew 10:28.
Paul —> 2 Thessalonians 1:8 – 9
John —-> Revelation 20:11 – 15.
As usual, the answers are found in the Verses ‘you missed’. The theologians you quote are ‘later’ and I do NOT deny those quotes as those are the ‘second part – Restorative Judgment’ which is ‘later’.
You guys clearly don’t believe the ‘ALL’ in ‘ALL the Bible’. You can deny it by your opinions and quoting ‘partial quotes’, it’s too childish for me.
Another Comment: Athanasius – Retributive Judgment of God
That’s the effect of the Restorative Judgment of God. It does NOT prove that there is NO Retributive Judgment at all taught by Athanasius.
Ireanaoues quotes similarly regarding evil not being eternal and immortal but also teaches the Retributive Judgment of God which must endured first.
Here is Athanasius on ‘Retributive Judgment’ part too:
“… followed naturally that when men were bereft of the knowledge of God and were turned back to what was not (for what is evil is not, but what is good is), they should, since they derive their being from God who IS, be everlastingly [AGE-DURINGLY] bereft even of being; in other words, that they should be DISINTEGRATED and ABIDE in DEATH and CORRUPTION.
For man is by nature mortal, inasmuch as he is made out of what is not; but by reason of his likeness to Him that is (and if he still preserved this likeness by keeping Him in his knowledge) he would stay his natural corruption, and remain incorrupt; as Wisdom Wisdom 6:18 says: “The taking heed to His laws is the assurance of immortality;” but being incorrupt, he would live henceforth as God, to which I suppose the divine Scripture refers, when it says: “I have said you are gods, and you are all sons of the most Highest; but you die like men, and fall as one of the princes.” (St. Athanasius, On the Incarnation of the Word, IV, 4b-6)
“For just as for them who walk after His example, the prize is life everlasting [AGE-DURING], so for those who walk the opposite way, and not that of virtue, there is great shame, and peril without pardon in the DAY of JUDGMENT [Revelation 20:11 – 15, not 70AD Theory at all], because although they knew the way of truth their acts were contrary to their knowledge. (St. Athanasius, Against the Heathen, XLVII, 4)
An Edifying Comment: Purgatorial Hell
The two quotes by Athanasius defines both the Retributive Judgment and Restorative Judgment understood by him (two quotes two different times, referring to each).
Also, Irenaeous and Justin are more authoritative that even Athanasius must have endorsed (Precedence).
Best, the Verses by Lord Jesus Christ, Paul and John prove Retributive Judgment (quoted prior) —-> together with other verses and quotes provided in the links.
Both His Retributive Judgment (‘Judgment with NO Mercy first’) and His Restorative Judgment (‘Mercy Triumphs over Judgment’) —-> are true, in one Verse: James 2:13.
I find myself repeating the same points while believing your points while you deny the Old Testament, Christ’s, Paul, John’s, Justin and Irenaeous, James 2:13 etc. —> obvious quotes on Retribution.
No point in repeating myself. If you don’t accept it, nothing changes. The Verses remain true and I prefer Irenaeous and Justin’s exegesis (earliest, best and most authoritative, Orthodox) after the Bible Verses.
I won’t comment further. Thank you for reading and sharing your thoughts.
His Grace and Peace to y’all
Majority of Christian Universalists from Earliest Christianity believed in Purgatorial Universalism (just like me) which includes Retributive Judgment followed by Restorative Judgment.
Here’s a ‘reliable’ proof, to quote:
“Purgatorial Hell
Purgatorial Universalism was the belief of some of the early church fathers such as Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Gregory of Nyssa. It asserts that the UNSAVED will UNDERGO HELL, but that HELL is remedial (NEITHER EVERLASTING NOR PURELY RETRIBUTIVE) according to key scriptures and THAT AFTER PURIFICATION or conversion all will enter Heaven.
Fourth-century Christian theologian and Bishop Diodorus of Tarsus wrote: “For the wicked there are punishments, not perpetual, however, lest the immortality prepared for them should be a disadvantage, but they are to be purified for a brief period according to the amount of malice in their works. They shall therefore suffer punishment for a short space, but immortal blessedness having no end awaits them…the penalties to be inflicted for their many and grave sins are very far surpassed by the magnitude of the mercy to be shown to them.”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_universalism
Please note this Part carefully as attested by Scholars who study their work ‘carefully’ to ‘realize’ that I believe in the ‘same way’ —> the UNSAVED will UNDERGO HELL, —> HELL is remedial (NEITHER EVERLASTING NOR PURELY RETRIBUTIVE) —-> according to key scriptures and THAT AFTER PURIFICATION or conversion all will enter [the Kingdom of] Heaven (Matthew 5:19).
Christ’s Cross is at the CENTER for us though some ‘self seeking universalists put it off the center’ in the ‘image’ in the link above (we REJECT their act in this).
Shalom
ALL THINGS NEW – Secrets from St. Justin Martyr and St. Irenaeous of Lyons – Body and Soul DESTROYED in Gehenna?
What is Destroyed when Body + Soul is Destroyed in Gehenna, the Lake of Fire (Matthew 10:28)?
Please consider this ‘ancient Christian Wisdom which I learnt from First Christianity’:
1) St. Justin Martyr calls it “DISSOLUTION by God of things CORRUPTIBLE”
“And the SIBYL and Hystaspes said that there should be a DISSOLUTION by God of things CORRUPTIBLE. And the philosophers called Stoics teach that even God Himself shall be RESOLVED into FIRE, and they say that the WORLD is to be FORMED ANEW by this revolution; but we understand that God, the Creator of ALL THINGS, … DOCTRINE of PLATO; and while we say that there will be a BURNING up of ALL, we shall seem to utter the doctrine of the Stoics: and while we affirm that the SOULS of the WICKED…” (Justin Martyr, First Apology, CHAPTER XX — HEATHEN ANALOGIES TO CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE)
Some key points:
CORRUPTIBLE = Consisting SIN and EVIL
An Example of the Judeo-Christian Sibyline Oracle agreeing to Universal Salvation is Illustrated with Verse Mapping in link below for Edification:
Basically, Justin Martyr is pointing out the part where ‘others got the doctrine right too’ when compared with the ‘true Christian doctrine’.
2) St. Irenaeous of Lyons calls it “DISSOLUTION of the FLESH”
“… He pitied him [MAN], [and did NOT desire] that he [MAN] should continue a sinner for ever [to the AGE, AEON], NOR that the SIN which surrounded him should be IMMORTAL, and EVIL INTERMINABLE and IRREMEDIABLE. … and thus causing sin to cease, putting an END to it by the DISSOLUTION of the FLESH, which should take place in the earth, so that MAN, CEASING at length to live to SIN, and dying to it, might begin to live to God…
-… ADAM received NEW LIFE; and the LAST ENEMY, DEATH, is DESTROYED, which at the first had taken possession of MAN. Therefore, WHEN MAN has been LIBERATED, “… HIS SALVATION is DEATH’s DESTRUCTION. When therefore the Lord VIVIFIES MAN, that is, ADAM, DEATH is at the same time DESTROYED” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’ Book 3, Chapter XXIII, Point 6, Point 7)
Yes,
Irenaeous calls it “DISSOLUTION of the FLESH” in the above (Context Discussed later below too) = “Resurrection of Judgment for the Wicked” (John 5:28 – 29) = “JUDGED in the FLESH” (1 Peter 4:6) = “DESTRUCTION of the FLESH” (1 Corinthians 5:5) = Justin Martyr calls it “DISSOLUTION by God of things CORRUPTIBLE (all SIN and EVIL)” earlier, Context linking these together.
Verses:
“and He gave Him authority to EXECUTE JUDGMENT, because He is the Son of Man. “Do NOT MARVEL at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the GOOD DEEDS to a Resurrection of LIFE, those who committed the EVIL DEEDS to a Resurrection of JUDGMENT.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:27 – 29, NASB)
“who [speak EVIL] will give account to Him who is ready to JUDGE the living and THE DEAD. For to this end the GOSPEL was proclaimed even to THE DEAD, so that they might be JUDGED indeed according to men in the FLESH, but they might LIVE in the SPIRIT according to God.” – apostle Peter (1 Peter 4:5 – 6, BLB)
“I have decided to deliver such a one to SATAN for the DESTRUCTION of HIS FLESH, so that HIS SPIRIT may be SAVED in the Day of the Lord Jesus.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 5:5, NASB)
The “destruction of the flesh” (1 Corinthians 5:5) during the ‘Judgment in the flesh after the resurrection (body + soul + spirit), for Judgment toward the wicked’ (John 5:28 – 29) refers to their ‘body + soul only being destroyed or cease to exist during this Gehenna or Lake of Fire Final Judgment’ (so let’s be afraid of God! Matthew 10:28, 1 Peter 4:5) where their ‘spirit will be saved, yes they live in the spirit state first’ (1 Peter 4:6) on the Day of Lord Jesus (1 Corinthians 5:5).
The actual person to whom apostle Paul gave up and judged toward this Final Gehenna Judgment in the Lake of Fire due to his wickedness and attitude of unrepentance prior (implied) caused apostle Paul to ‘Prophesy’ this ‘Final Judgment’ on him in 1 Corinthians 5:5 but later as some scholars say that ‘this sinful believer repented’ & hence that prophesied Judgment is cancelled (2 Corinthians 2:6 – 8).
Yes, apostle Paul distinctly mentions the existence in the ‘spirit state’ (proving the distinction of body + soul + spirit in a Man, generally in 1 Thessalonians 5:23) by the phrase ‘his spirit’, referring to the ‘wicked or fallen believer’s spirit’ in 1 Corinthians 5:5 which may be Saved on the Day of Lord Jesus (a specific future Time Period or Interval).
Irenaeous mentions the “annihilation” aspect in this same ‘Context’ too, please consider:
Conclusion – God’s Judgment is for CORRECTION and SALVATION of ALL
Here’s another one from Irenaeous in support of this (which is ‘generally in view of man’ – ‘context’):
“… For if MAN, who had been CREATED by GOD that he might live, after losing life, through being injured by the serpent that had CORRUPTED him, should NOT any more RETURN to LIFE, but should be UTTERLY [and for ever] ABANDONED to DEATH, God would [in that case] have been conquered, and the wickedness of the serpent would have PREVAILED OVER the WILL of GOD. But inasmuch as God is invincible and long-suffering, He did indeed show Himself to be long-suffering in the matter of the CORRECTION of MAN and the PROBATION of ALL, as I have already observed; and by means of the SECOND MAN did He bind the strong man, and spoiled his goods, and ABOLISHED DEATH, VIVIFYING that MAN who had been in a STATE of DEATH….” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’ Book 3, Chapter XXIII, Point 1)
Context?
For if MAN, who had been CREATED by GOD = Point to All Human Beings ever Created by God right?
CORRECTION of MAN = Points even to the ‘resurrection of Judgment’ (John 5:28 – 29) into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:11 – 15) too, right?
PROBATION of ALL = Points to Times appointed for Judgment & their BETTERMENT toward ‘ALL who are evil’, right?
should NOT any more RETURN to LIFE, but should be UTTERLY [and for ever] ABANDONED to DEATH = that is, if any Man remains in an ‘eternal Hell’, right?
God would [in that case] have been conquered, and the wickedness of the serpent would have PREVAILED OVER the WILL of GOD = Irenaeous seems to Speak against the Possibility of ‘eternal Hell’ to even ‘one human being ever created’. Can you see it?
But inasmuch as God is invincible and long-suffering, He did indeed show Himself to be long-suffering in the matter of the CORRECTION of MAN and the PROBATION of ALL = Sounds like all the Judgment of God, however harsh it may be (the ‘age-during fire’ or the ‘fire to the ages of Ages’) points for the PURPOSE of CORRECTION and PROBATION, against it doesn’t support ‘eternal Hell’ at all, right?
as I have already observed; and by means of the SECOND MAN [Lord Jesus Christ] did He bind the strong man [the Devil], and spoiled his goods, and ABOLISHED DEATH [eventually Death Ceases to Exist], VIVIFYING that MAN who had been in a STATE of DEATH = Christ the Second Adam will somehow VIVIFY [All Human Beings ever created – Context defined at the start] in a NEW FLESH (sinless) eventually, right?
Irenaeous continues from the ‘above’ passage after explaining some details in support of this (within this ‘same topic’ – ‘context’) next as follows:
“… Wherefore also He [God] drove him [MAN] out of Paradise, and removed him [MAN] far from the tree of life, not because He envied him the tree of life, as some venture to assert, but because He pitied him [MAN], [and did NOT desire] that he [MAN] should continue a sinner for ever, NOR that the SIN which surrounded him should be IMMORTAL, and EVIL INTERMINABLE and IRREMEDIABLE. But He [God] set a BOUND to his [STATE of] SIN, by interposing death, and thus causing sin to cease, putting an END to it by the DISSOLUTION of the FLESH, which should take place in the earth, so that MAN, CEASING at length to live to SIN, and dying to it, might begin to live to God…
-indicating that SIN, which was set up and SPREAD out AGAINST MAN, and which rendered him subject to DEATH, should be DEPRIVED of ITS POWER, along with DEATH, which rules [over MEN]; and that the lion, that is, ANTICHRIST, rampant AGAINST MANKIND in the latter days, should be TRAMPLED DOWN by Him [Lord Jesus Christ]; and that He should bind “the dragon, that old serpent” and SUBJECT him to the power of man, who had been conquered so that ALL his MIGHT should be TRODDEN DOWN. Now ADAM had been conquered, all life having been taken away from him: wherefore, when the foe was conquered in his turn, ADAM received NEW LIFE; and the LAST ENEMY, DEATH, is DESTROYED, which at the first had taken possession of MAN. Therefore, WHEN MAN has been LIBERATED, “what is written shall COME to PASS, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death sting? ” This could not be said with JUSTICE, if THAT MAN, over whom death did first obtain dominion, were not set free. For HIS SALVATION is DEATH’s DESTRUCTION. When therefore the Lord VIVIFIES MAN, that is, ADAM, DEATH is at the same time DESTROYED” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’ Book 3, Chapter XXIII, Point 6, Point 7)
Examples from Irenaeous quote above (which pertains to ‘man generally’ – again):
Irenaeous Beautifully Reveals that CHRIST will be TRIUMPHANT —-> till even the ‘antichrist’ and ‘ALL the MIGHT’ of the ‘dragon’ (or ‘satan’ too) MUST END —> being TRODDEN DOWN —> and ‘not last forever in some way’, e.g. in an ‘eternal Hell’, right?
Does it refer to ADAM only?
When therefore the Lord VIVIFIES MAN, that is, ADAM, DEATH is at the same time DESTROYED = All the above Points to ALL MEN being SAVED eventually by God (1 Timothy 2:4 – KJV) till they all become SINLESS.
How?
Please read ‘carefully’ the ‘last line’ above and ‘realize’ that the ‘only context’ here is:
the Lord VIVIFIES MAN —-> refers IRREFUTABLY to —-> ADAM.
Can you see it?
MAN (ALL Men or ALL Human Beings ever Created) = ADAM in Irenaeous’ Explanation above (‘his own definition and usage’). Shocked?
Beautiful, isn’t it?
Yes,
the Lord VIVIFIES MAN (Adam) till ‘DEATH is at the same time DESTROYED’ = Points to EVERY HUMAN BEING ever Created to eventually Receive a NEW RESURRECTED FLESH eventually (John 17:2, 1 Corinthians 15:21 – 22).
Truly,
“For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our HOPE on the LIVING GOD, Who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially of believers.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 4:10, NASB)
‘believers are a more special subset for believing in Him first’, yes —-> but, God WILL SAVE ALL MEN eventually.
Conclusion
It is very clear that both Justin and Irenaeous understood Universal Salvation via Judgment toward the Wicked too —-> in their “DISSOLUTION of the FLESH” —–> to “Make ALL things NEW, ALL FLESH ANEW” (which I call in my Writing as the ‘Second Resurrection of the wicked’ per say), since they get HEALED & MADE ANEW post GEHENNA or LAKE of FIRE Judgment as implied in these authoritative quotes.
Justin & Irenaeous are MISUNDERSTOOD in regards to WHAT they MEANT to be ANNIHILATED in their quotes —-> which as we see from the above (‘in their own writings’) —–> points to ‘sin & evil ceasing to exist in the punished wicked’ and NOT their ‘existence itself’.
How can I be sure of it?
Please consider Justin & Irenaeous each explaining that the ‘annihilation’ or ‘destruction’ which they point to —-> does NOT refer to ‘non-existence of life’ but in the Context of God MAKING ANEW All Things which are DISSOLVED as explained in their quotes above:
Annihilation & Immortality – Justin & Irenaeous
Annihilation – Didn’t Justin and Irenaeous teach Complete Annihilation of the Wicked disproving the earlier point regarding the ‘DISSOLUTION of the FLESH’?
Absolutely not. Justin & Irenaeous implies the Annihilation of ‘Sin and Evil’ in the ‘Body + Soul’ as it is described in their own words earlier.
a.i) Justin implies that there is NO ‘ceasing to exist’ type of annihilation:
“Yet is it not absurd, that that which has been produced with such circumstance, and which is beyond all else valuable, should be so neglected by its Maker, as to pass to NONENTITY? Then the sculptor and painter, if they wish the works they have made to endure, that they may win glory by them, RENEW THEM when they begin to DECAY; but God would so neglect His own possession and work, that it becomes ANNIHILATED, and NO longer EXISTS. Should we not call this labour in vain? As if a man who has built a house should forthwith DESTROY it, or should NEGLECT it, though he sees it falling into DECAY, and is ABLE to REPAIR it: we would blame him for labouring in vain; and should we not so blame God? But not such an one is the INCORRUPTIBLE,–NOT SENSELESS is the INTELLIGENCE of the universe. Let the unbelieving be silent, even though they themselves do not believe.” (St. Justin Martyr, CHAPTER VIII.–DOES THE BODY CAUSE THE SOUL TO SIN? FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION)
a.ii) Irenaeous implies that there is NO ‘ceasing to exist’ type of annihilation:
“For since there are real men, so must there also be a real establishment (plantationem), that they vanish not away among non-existent things, but PROGRESS among those which have an ACTUAL EXISTENCE. For NEITHER is the SUBSTANCE NOR the ESSENCE of the CREATION ANNIHILATED (for Faithful and True is He Who has ESTABLISHED it), but “the FASHION of the WORLD PASSETH AWAY; ” that is, THOSE THINGS among which TRANSGRESSION has OCCURRED, since MAN has grown OLD in them. And therefore this [present] FASHION has been formed TEMPORARY, God Foreknowing all things;…” (Irenaeous, Book 5, Chapter XXXVI, Point 1)
It’s obvious in the above that Irenaeous points to the ‘temporal age-during fashion’ of things —> which refers to ‘SIN and its effects’ (where ‘transgression’ has occurred) in such CREATION —> which will be PROGRESSED into a NEW FASHION for the quote ‘Faithful and True’ ties it up to God MAKING ALL THINGS NEW (to be free from this ‘former taint of sin & its effects, decay’) as Revelation 21:5 Majestically Declares.
Wonderful News isn’t it?
(i) First Resurrection of Judgment for the Wicked – in the SAME Old Bodies
” WE say that the SAME thing will be done, but at the hand of Christ, and upon the WICKED in the SAME BODIES UNITED AGAIN to THEIR SPIRITS which are now to undergo everlasting [AGE-DURING] punishment; and not only, as Plato said, for a period of a thousand years. And if any one say that this is incredible or impossible, this error of ours is one which concerns ourselves only, and no other person, so long as you cannot convict us of doing any harm.” (Justin Martyr, CHAPTER VIII — CHRISTIANS CONFESS THEIR FAITH IN GOD, First Apology)
First Resurrection of the Wicked for Final Judgment (John 5:28 -29) = “WICKED in the SAME BODIES UNITED AGAIN to THEIR SPIRITS which are now to undergo everlasting [AGE-DURING] punishment” (Justin Martyr)
(ii) First Resurrection of Judgment for the Wicked – in the SAME Old Bodies – does NOT last Forever
The Wicked’s SAME OLD FLESH is what which ‘ceases to exist with sin & evil being destroyed in it’ during the resurrection for Judgment toward them as we discussed earlier in Point 4 prior.
The ceasing of days or continuance of existence in the quote below refers explicitly to —> CEASING to EXIST in the FIRST RESURRECTION for JUDGMENT BODIES of the WICKED —> which refers to the CORRUPTIBLE (sin and evil dwelling) SAME OLD BODIES in which they are ‘resurrected for Judgment’ prior as Irenaeous explains in his own words below:
So, the Wicked are NOT Granted AUTOMATIC Continuance of Life to the ‘ages of Ages’ & beyond (implied).
“… But he who shall REJECT it, and prove himself UNGRATEFUL to his Maker, inasmuch as he has been created, and has not recognised Him who bestowed [the gift upon him], deprives himself of [the privilege of] continuance for ever and ever [to the Aeons of the Aeons].
And, for this reason, the Lord declared to those who showed themselves UNGRATEFUL towards Him: “If ye have not been faithful in that which is little, who will give you that which is great? ” indicating that those who, in this brief temporal life, have shown themselves ungrateful to Him who bestowed it, shall justly NOT RECEIVE from Him length of days for ever and ever [to the Aeons of the Aeons].” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXXIV.-Souls Can Be Recognised in the Separate State, and are Immortal Although They Once Had a Beginning, second part of Point 3)
(iii) Can the Judgment of God toward the Wicked produce Good toward them in the end?
Yes, Irenaeous hints that the JUST JUDGMENT of God makes ALL THINGS —-> GOOD (including the WICKED – please note this word ‘carefully’ in the below – in ‘his own words’):
“… has the Lord said: “Judge not, that ye be not judged: for with what judgment ye shall judge, ye shall be judged.” [The meaning is] NOT certainly that we should NOT find fault with SINNERS, nor that we should consent to THOSE who act WICKEDLY; but that we should NOT PRONOUNCE an UNFAIR JUDGMENT on the DISPENSATIONS of God, inasmuch as HE has Himself MADE PROVISION that ALL [Created] THINGS SHALL TURN out for GOOD, in a WAY CONSISTENT with JUSTICE. …” (Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XXX, Point 3)
Isn’t it obvious that Irenaeous is explaining that “Pronouncing” the “Fair Judgment of God” —–> toward SINNERS and the WICKED —–> includes understanding the “dispensations (time)” God has Prepared —-> to make ALL CREATED THINGS (including these SINNERS and WICKED aforementioned – Context) to be GOOD again —–> (proving that EVIL will cease to exist eventually) —-> in a way which is CONSISTENT with JUSTICE.
Shouldn’t we preach the SAME about the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT of GOD?
Please note that the ‘first resurrection of Judgment for the wicked’ (John 5:28 – 29) in “age-during fire” of Gehenna (Matthew 10:28) or Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:11 – 15) is with their OLD BODIES being REUNITED with THEIR SPIRIT (and is NOT Referring to the Second Resurrection of the Wicked which is implied or referred to earlier in a FLESH which is NEW, the NEW FLESH being DIFFERENT as God Makes ALL THINGS NEW – Revelation 21:5 – 8, which is understood to be post this Judgment in the Lake of Fire in these set of Verses too – implied – as God Wills – discussed prior).
What is Immortality or living Forever in the Context of Scripture according to Irenaeous?
NO Eternal Life is Granted in One Aeon or One Age – The Eternal Age Heresy – Understanding Immortality Correctly.
Body and Soul do NOT exist forever but are subject to God granting its existence from ‘age to age’ or ‘aeon to aeon’, that is from ‘one aeon to the next’:
” … But ALL THINGS which proceed from Him, WHATSOEVER have been MADE, and are made, do indeed receive their own beginning of generation, and on this account are INFERIOR to Him who formed them, inasmuch as they are not unbegotten. Nevertheless THEY ENDURE, and EXTEND their EXISTENCE into a LONG SERIES of AGES in accordance with the WILL of GOD their Creator; so that He GRANTS them that they should be thus formed at the beginning, and that they should so exist afterwards.” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXXIV.-Souls Can Be Recognised in the Separate State, and are Immortal Although They Once Had a Beginning, Point 2)
I repeat, please note these phrases ‘carefully’ from Irenaeous’ own words (NOT mine) which proves this claim Irrefutably for ‘Sound Doctrine’:
ALL THINGS which proceed from Him, WHATSOEVER have been MADE —> are INFERIOR to Him who formed them —> THEY ENDURE, and EXTEND their EXISTENCE —> into a LONG SERIES of AGES —-> [Ages or Aeons – Can you see the Plural ‘ages to come’ or ‘aeons to come’ theory true even for ‘future ages’ as per Ephesians 2:7) —-> in accordance with the WILL of GOD their Creator, so that He GRANTS them.
Will Immortality eventually apply to the WHOLE HUMAN RACE as part of His Glorious Promise to make ALL FLESH ANEW?
Yes.
Salvation = the SOUL or SPIRIT being MADE ALIVE in a SINLESS BODY = a FLESH which is MADE ANEW by God which is PROPHETICALLY echoed by Irenaeous toward the WHOLE HUMAN RACE (no one excluded – ‘eventually’ into the ‘future dispensations of time’ – as explained in a previous write-up):
Restoration and the Reconciliation of All Things with Mercy Triumphing and ending afterlife Judgments but only after the ‘judgment with no mercy is endured first by some – James 2:13’ (Acts 3:21, Colossians 1:20, Malachi 3:2).
“… Proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His [FUTURE] manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father “to GATHER ALL THINGS in ONE,” and to RAISE UP ANEW ALL FLESH of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, “every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and THINGS UNDER the EARTH, and that every tongue should confess” to Him, …” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Chapter X.-Unity of the Faith of the Church Throughout the Whole World, Point 1).
Please note the following ‘carefully’ in the above:
His [FUTURE] manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father “to GATHER ALL THINGS in ONE = Includes, ‘RAISE UP ANEW ALL FLESH of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE’.
What is the ‘Context’ of ‘ALL FLESH’ in the above?
RAISE UP ANEW ALL FLESH = the WHOLE HUMAN RACE, eventually.
Eventually? = His [FUTURE] manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father “to GATHER ALL THINGS in ONE.
How long will the Wicked or the Disobedient be cast off from the Lord on Judgment Day?
Are UNBELIEVERS are cast off to the next AGE or AEON only, AGE2 (agreeing say to Matthew 12:32) and ‘not forever’?
Here’s a DIRECT answer to this question which proves (yet again) that the “Lake of Fire or Gehenna” Judgments (Revelation 20:11 – 15) toward “unbelieving men too” (Revelation 21:8) are to the “next (future) singular-age ONLY, Biblically in say Matthew 25:41 or Matthew 25:46 and NOT Forever as so popularly erred”.
Who says so?
The REAL Authority of Doctrine & Biblical Koine Greek itself, ‘a king of True Christian Theology’, St. Irenaeous of Lyons himself in the following ‘in his own words’ (“irrefutable”):
Please consider:
“… For Paul does not say, “the God of this world,” as if recognising any other beyond Him; but he confessed God as indeed God. And he says, “the unbelievers of this world,” because they shall not inherit the future age of incorruption …” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 3, Point 1)
I repeat with EMPHASIS for Clarity [in Brackets too, showing the “Original Greek Word: Aeon or “age” occurring in 2 Corinthians 4:4, Matthew 25:46, Matthew 25:41 or even Matthew 12:32]
“… For Paul does not say, “the God of this world [AGE, AEON],” as if recognising any other beyond Him; but he confessed God as indeed God. And he [apostle Paul] says, “the UNBELIEVERS of this world [AGE, AEON],” because they [UNBELIEVERS] shall NOT INHERIT the FUTURE AGE [AEON] of incorruption [SINLESSNESS] …” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 3, Chapter VII, Point 1)
Indeed, in the above it is evident that (in Irenaeous’ OWN WORDS’ that:
the UNBELIEVERS of this world [AGE, AEON, AGE1] —-> because they [UNBELIEVERS] shall NOT INHERIT —–> the FUTURE AGE [AEON, AGE2] of incorruption [SINLESSNESS].
Irenaeous clearly makes a distinction and understands the CURRENT AGE (AEON, AGE1) vs the NEXT AGE (AEON, AGE2) vs the “ages to come” (e. g. Ephesians 2:7, AGE2, AGE3…) as explained in detail in earlier write ups too agreeing to all this.
If he [Irenaeous] understands it thus belonging to the “True Faith”, we shouldn’t understand it differently. Yes, NO adding NOR removing from the Blessed Word of God is seen in his ‘Genius Level Exegesis’ but ONLY EXACTLY stating Holy Scripture as “it is Written”.
Please note carefully this punishment for “unbelievers”, namely that they are cast out for EXACTLY one FUTURE AGE [or next AEON, AGE2] —-> not inheriting the “incorruption” which is being raised in a “sinless resurrection of flesh” proving again irrefutably also that the “resurrection of judgment” toward the ‘wicked’ (in John 5:28 – 29) refers to their ‘identical bodies’ still in “sin” (“corruptible”) and NOT in any form of ‘incorruptibility’ as our dear ‘eternal hell’ theologians err so easily.
Conclusion
In light of ‘more verses’ and quotes by these ‘kings of theology’ (Justin and Irenaeous) it is clear that they understood Universal Restoration but via a Purgatorial Hell in Judgment too as described briefly here.
(i) Did Justin understand Universal Salvation?
Yes (example quote):
“For it had its SALVATION from itself; so that in SAVING the SOUL, God does no great thing. For to be saved is its natural destiny, because it is a part of Himself, being His inspiration. But no thanks are due to one who saves what is his own; for this is to save himself.
For he who SAVES a part himself, saves himself by his own means, lest he become defective in that part; and this is not the act of a good man. For not even when a man does good to HIS CHILDREN and offspring, does one call him a good man; for even the most savage of the wild beasts do so, and indeed willingly endure death, if need be, for the sake of their cubs.
But if a man were to perform the SAME ACTS in behalf of his SLAVES, that man would justly be called good. Wherefore the Saviour also taught us to LOVE our ENEMIES, since, says He, what thank have ye? So that He has shown us that it is a GOOD work not only to love THOSE that are BEGOTTEN of Him, but also THOSE that are WITHOUT [i.e. ‘not’ Begotten of Him, implied]. And what He enjoins upon us, He Himself FIRST of ALL DOES.” (St. Justin Martyr, CHAPTER VIII.–DOES THE BODY CAUSE THE SOUL TO SIN? FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION)
Please note ‘carefully’ that Justin implies that God Saving ‘His Own Begotten or Children is NOT a big deal’. Justin then proceeds to argue that Christ is above ALL because He Promises to Perform the SAME ACTS toward ‘His Slaves’ too and lastly toward HIS ENEMIES as well in the Beautifully Analogy above —> as the only Context of this Passage is ‘where the SOUL is SAVED eventually in its EXISTENCE’ —-> toward becoming “RESURRECTED in the FLESH’ again —-> in the Context of LOVE and GOODNESS, and ‘not Judgment’ —> toward His ENEMIES too —-> yes, the Context of the passage above proves that the SAME RESURRECTION to SINLESS-NESS being Promised thus in LOVE toward —-> BOTH ‘THOSE that are BEGOTTEN of Him’ —-> and ‘also THOSE that are WITHOUT [i.e. ‘not’ Begotten of Him, implied] —> proving that this must refer to the ‘not explicitly mentioned (though implied) second resurrection of the wicked’ toward ‘sinless-ness’ —> post the Lake of Fire Judgment (which follows after their ‘first resurrection for Judgment’, John 5:28 – 29 —-> and this GOOD and LOVE toward His ENEMIES, in saving ‘their souls to exist’ eventually in a ‘resurrected sinless body’ —> will certainly come to pass, as Justin remarks in faith, ‘He Himself FIRST of ALL DOES’.
(ii) Did Irenaeous understand Universal Salvation?
Yes (example quote):
“… Mercy Triumphs over Judgment” – apostle James (James 2:13, NASB)
How did Irenaeous Understand apostle Paul’s Last Word on Judgment – which is ‘MERCY to ALL eventually (in Romans 11:32)?’
Irenaeous does NOT speak of ‘any availability’ NOR does he refer to the ‘all’ in Romans 11:32 to refer to ‘believers only or the sheep only’ but also INCLUSIVE of the DISOBEDIENT too – Shocked? So was I when I read the following (which PROVES the CONTEXT of UNIVERSAL SALVATION for ALL MEN true when Romans 11:32 is quoted), as Irenaeous himself APPROVES it as follows:
“… Just as the physician is proved by his patients, so is God also revealed through MEN. And therefore Paul declares, “For God hath concluded ALL in UNBELIEF, that He [God] may have MERCY upon ALL; ” not saying this in reference to spiritual Aeons, but to MAN, who had been DISOBEDIENT to God, and being CAST OFF from IMMORTALITY, then OBTAINED MERCY, receiving through the Son of God that adoption which is [ACCOMPLISHED] by Himself… ” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book III, Chapter XX, second part of Point 3)
Please note carefully that Irenaeous speaks of MEN (who are sick generally being SINNERS, as the Context of the Great Physician is set forth first).
Next. Irenaeous Speaks of the ‘Mercy to All’ —> not as an offer, nor as an availability or any part on the ‘will of men’ (agreeing to Romans 9:15 – 16) though popular theology errs otherwise greatly in this – Can you see it? —-> but as an ACCOMPLISHED Fact evidenced by the phrase ‘OBTAINED MERCY’ toward those ‘CAST OFF from IMMORTALITY’ due to His Work Alone.
In other words, Irenaeous does NOT discuss any ‘availability or the will of man’ when quoting Romans 11:32 proving that these are irrelevant to the context of MERCY which depends on GOD’s WILL ALONE (Romans 9:15 – 16).
Next, Irenaeous clearly sets forth the SAME Prophetic Tone in Inspired Scripture by apostle Paul in that ALL in UNBELIEF or those who have been DISOBEDIENT to God will first be CAST OFF from IMMORTALITY (enduring the AGE-DURING Judgment in Gehenna Fire, Matthew 25:46) where their MORTAL parts of the BODY and SOUL will be DESTROYED (Matthew 10:28) but these will eventually been shown MERCY, not as an offer or availability within an Aeon but as a REALITY in that they will OBTAIN that MERCY, Romans 11:32 (which Triumphs and ENDS that afterlife Judgment Sentence too, James 2:13) as even the Infamous Sibyline Prophecies (in link below) clearly records in agreement to all this as well:
The Jewish-Christian Sibyline Oracle Prophecies are Important because exegesis regarding Prophecy of Scripture is NOT of any private interpretation and thus must agree with the Earliest Known established Reliable Prophecy such as This (in obedience to 2 Peter 1:20).
(iii) Another Quote by Justin affirming this:
“Yet is it not absurd, that that which has been produced with such circumstance, and which is beyond all else valuable, should be so neglected by its Maker, as to pass to NONENTITY? Then the sculptor and painter, if they wish the works they have made to endure, that they may win glory by them, RENEW THEM when they begin to DECAY; but God would so neglect His own possession and work, that it becomes ANNIHILATED, and NO longer EXISTS. Should we not call this labour in vain? As if a man who has built a house should forthwith DESTROY it, or should NEGLECT it, though he sees it falling into DECAY, and is ABLE to REPAIR it: we would blame him for labouring in vain; and should we not so blame God? But not such an one is the INCORRUPTIBLE,–NOT SENSELESS is the INTELLIGENCE of the universe. Let the unbelieving be silent, even though they themselves do not believe.” (St. Justin Martyr, CHAPTER VIII.–DOES THE BODY CAUSE THE SOUL TO SIN? FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION)
It is clear in the above that Justin is using the analogy of an earthly painter where if he is able, he will RENEW that which DECAYS and likewise a man who sees his house falling into DECAY would also REPAIR it —> in the Context of explaining the ‘Salvation of the Soul’ (Topic here as the paragraphs surrounding it prove – Justin is amazingly WISE, isn’t it?).
Hence Justin Concludes that the Incorruptible God would likewise NOT Destroy the Soul into NONENTITY or NONEXISTENCE till it is ANNIHILATED and NO LONGER EXISTS (Disproving the ‘Annihilation View of Hell Theory’) —> and NEITHER would God, Justin implies Who being INTELLIGENT and ABLE to both RENEW and REPAIR would cause any of His Work toward ‘all souls’ which are His (Ezekiel 18:4) to continue in DECAY of SIN FOREVER (Disproving the ‘Eternal View of Hell Theory) —> but rather goes on to Imply the only Rational Conclusion from Justin’s Own Words in that He believes in a God Who WILL both RENEW and REPAIR ALL SOULS (be it wicked or righteous, as ‘all souls truly belongs to Him’, Ezekiel 18:4) despite ‘death or decay’ in which some must endure first (Approving the Universal Salvation View of Purgatorial Hell as it was held by St. Clement of Alexandria or even St. Gregory of Nyssa too).
(iv) Another Quote by Irenaeous affirming this:
Context of Colossians 1:16 – 20.
Christ Centered Universalists claim that Salvation is by Lord Jesus Christ’s Work Alone toward ‘All Created things’ eventually (Colossians 1:16) where through His Blood on His Cross He will cause the Final Two Way Reconciliation Prophesied Majestically in Scripture toward this same ‘All [Created] things’ (in Colossians 1:20).
Did Irenaeous Understand Colossians 1:16 – 20 in the SAME way?
Yes, to quote:
It is self explanatory in the above, I repeat with Emphasis:
“Christ, who was called the Son of God BEFORE the AGES [Aeons], was manifested in the fulness of time, in order that He might cleanse us through His blood, who were under the power of sin, presenting us as pure sons to His Father, if we yield ourselves obediently to the chastisement of the Spirit. And in the END of TIME He shall come to DO AWAY with ALL EVIL, and to RECONCILE ALL [Created] THINGS in order that there may be an END of ALL IMPURITIES.” (Fragment XXXIX, FRAGMENTS FROM THE LOST WRITINGS OF IRENAEUS)
We ‘Understand’ Colossians 1:16 – 20 the SAME way as Irenaeous describes above.
Blessed be Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the World (1 John 4:14)!
Peace to you.
(v) How about Barnabas and John 3:14 Mystery?
“As Moses LIFTED UP the SERPENT in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be LIFTED UP; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal [AGE-DURING] life.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 3:14 – 15, NASB)
Barnabas is clearly quoting the verses in John 3:14 – 15 in Essence in the below:
“When therefore they were assembled together they entreated Moses that he should offer up intercession for them that they might be HEALED. And Moses said unto them; Whensoever, said he, one of you shall be BITTEN, let him come to the SERPENT which is placed on the TREE, and let him BELIEVE and HOPE that the SERPENT being himself DEAD can MAKE ALIVE; and forthwith he shall be SAVED. And so they did. Here again thou hast IN THESE THINGS also the GLORY of JESUS, HOW that in Him and UNTO HIM are ALL THINGS.” (Barnabas 12:7, Epistle of Barnabas)
A Possible Meaning?
Points to some who may ‘see and believe Him in the afterlife’ (Sheepfold2, John 6:40) in the Context of the Son of Man being in Glory (John 3:14 – 15) and able to SAVE ALL [Created] THINGS eventually —-> because the ‘Serpent being Lifted Up Analogy’ (John 3:14 – 15) is quoted by Barnabas in the CONTEXT of ‘HOW that in Him and UNTO HIM are ALL [Created] THINGS’ —-> pointing to UNIVERSAL SALVATION by Christ eventually though he does NOT describe the details, merely pointing to a GLORIOUS HOPE in that Direction —> as he says, “Here again thou hast IN THESE THINGS also the GLORY of JESUS”. Deep.
It’s Very clear in the above that the Epistle of Barnabas Points to ‘understanding’ the Mystery Verses of John 3:14 – 15 or perhaps John 6:40 in Essence as Pointing to a UNIVERSAL SALVATION of ALL [Created] THINGS as even apostle Paul quoted that similar phrase ‘UNTO HIM are ALL THINGS’ (in Romans 11:36) just after Declaring MERCY as the FINAL WORD on the JUDGMENT of GOD’s TIMELINE toward ALL the ‘DISOBEDIENT (NASB)’ or ‘UNBELIEF (KJV)’ too (in Romans 11:32 – just four Verses prior, Immediate Context).
Can you see how DEEP the Wisdom of God really is in regards to His JUDGMENT (Romans 11:33 – 35)?
Comment: Sheepfold2?
The Shepherd of Hermas Writing (which is only next to New Testament Scripture as even Irenaeous, Pope Callixtus I, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria have endorsed it) clearly records the Gospel being Preached to ‘certain dead’ who ‘died in Good deeds’ but did NOT believe in Christ during their earthly lives prior, as they didn’t have the Seal of God.
The Shepherd of Hermas is NOT discussing Christ’s Descent but some 40 apostles + teachers who after they died, went into the afterlife abodes to ‘convert these’. Mysterious Indeed but it’s LITERALLY recorded as discussed in detail in links below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/shepherd-of-hermas-afterlife-judgment-visions/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/shepherd-of-hermas-afterlife-judgment-and-repentance-faq/
The ‘believing after seeing’ Mystery is Possible as it is echoed in John 6:40 and John 3:14 – 15 but it’s NOT for all but only on those whom the Lord deems His Mercy for He weighs all hearts to decide that (The afterlife Context is strong in these Verses, John 3:14 – 15 since the Son of Man is ‘Lifted Up’ Points to the ‘Spirit World’ & Post His Resurrection).
P/S: Appendix
Translation Sources for each quote above are from the links below unless specified otherwise:
Translation Source:
f.1) Justin Martyr
– FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-resurrection.html
– JUSTIN’S HORTATORY ADDRESS TO THE GREEKS
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-hortatory.html
– DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
– FIRST APOLOGY
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html
– SECOND APOLOGY
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-secondapology.html
f.2) Irenaeous – Against Heresies, Books 1 to Book 5.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-fragments.html
f.3) Barnabas – Epistle of Barnabas
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/barnabas-lightfoot.html
Bonus: As Christians, can we read the SIBYLINE PROPHECIES?
The ancient Judeo-Christian Sibyline Prophecies foretell Universal Salvation in that God Saves from the Lake of Fire too (proving basis that the ‘thirsty’ referred to in Revelation 21:6 are ‘those who did their part first in the Lake of Fire – Revelation 21:8’ to whom even the BRIDE calls too, Revelation 22:17 – proving that these ‘thirsty ones’ are NOT His BRIDE or CHURCH, Sheepfold1) as explained in link below:
Please note that in ‘Justin’s Time’, the SIBYL or SIBYLINE Collection of Prophecy refers to the above too (inclusive of it – Context – let’s us not be so gullible by claims saying this is not so – let us NOT be so easily deceived with the ‘no’ proof of such ‘otherwise’ claims – claiming a ‘non-existent, not found yet’ Sibyline Prophecy).
Can we read this Prophecy?
Yes, according to Justin Martyr himself (and he says it is a GOOD THING to READ these and that it is a PLEASING CONTENT to ALL):
“… but God FOREKNOWING all that shall be done by ALL MEN, and it being His Decree that the future actions of men shall all be recompensed according to their several value, He foretells by the Spirit of prophecy that He will bestow meet rewards according to the merit of the actions done, always urging the human race to effort and recollection, showing that He cares and provides for men. But by the agency of the DEVILS DEATH has been DECREED AGAINST those who READ the BOOKS of Hystaspes, or of the SIBYL, or of the PROPHETS, that through FEAR they may PREVENT MEN who READ THEM from RECEIVING the KNOWLEDGE of the GOOD, and may RETAIN THEM in SLAVERY to themselves; which, however, they could not always effect. For NOT only do we FEARLESSLY READ THEM, but, as you see, bring them for YOUR INSPECTION, knowing that THEIR CONTENTS will be PLEASING to ALL. …” (Justin Martyr, First Apology, CHAPTER XLIV — NOT NULLIFIED BY PROPHECY)
A Personal Comment:
Question
Why don’t you write a book with this?
Reply
Thank you for your Kind words of appreciation.
I welcome anyone to please just copy and use it if they are able .
No Copyright and No rights reserved.
Because the Lord Taught us First,
“Freely you have received, freely give”
I learnt from Justin & Irenaeous in this by God’s Wisdom in them (“not” my wisdom – so, I don’t own anything here).
Also, I learnt a lot from many writers in the Christian Universalist groups here even if I disagree theologically to some of their points.
I especially learnt a lot from the late Mr. Gary Amirault.
Peace to you
SIBYL and HYSTASPES – Mystery of what actually did Hystaspes Say?
To Quote (in the Context of Christian Theology – I quote Justin Martyr and Clement of Alexandria below):
The following texts refer to Hystaspes and may thus be quoted with confidence as excerpts from the oracles of Hystaspes:
(1) Justin Martyr (ca. 150 C.E.), Apology I, 20, 1 (ed. J. K. Th. von Otto, p. 62; cf. Bidez and Cumont, II, p. 361), Greek: “And both the Sibyl and Hystaspes have said that the extermination of the corrupt will happen by fire.”
(2) Clement of Alexandria (ca. 190 C.E.), Stromata VI, 5, 1 (ed. O. Stählin, p. 453; cf. Bidez and Cumont, II, pp. 362-63), Greek, quoting an apocryphal speech by Paul: “Grasp also the Hellenic books, recognize the Sibyl more perfectly . . . , and grasp and read Hystaspes, and you will find the Son of God described much more distinctly and clearly, and how against Christ many kings will fight, hating him and those who bear his name, and his followers, and the suffering [of Christ] and his coming.”
Source:
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/hystaspes-oracles-of
P/S:
Is Clement of Alexandria mentioning a Secret that apostle Paul tried to say in regards to Hystaspes when he writes, ‘quoting an apocryphal speech by Paul’?
Is that why Justin Martyr (knowing this) also quotes Hystaspes in a ‘Universal Salvation’ manner —-> saying, ‘extermination of the corrupt will happen by fire’ —> which refers to the extermination of the ‘corrupt’ (sin & evil) —> as even the SIBYL quoted together in the above obviously taught Universal Salvation (proving this Context Stronger), to quote:
“… for a long day will God make.
And to the pious will the almighty God
405 Imperishable grant another thing,
When they shall ask the imperishable God:
That he will suffer men from raging fire
And endless gnawing anguish to be saved;
And this will he do. For hereafter he
410 Will pluck them from the restless flame, elsewhere
Remove them, and for his own people’s sake
Send them to other and eternal life
With the immortals, in Elysian field,” (Sibyline Oracles, Book II, 297-322, p. 51)
Translation Source:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/sib/sib04.htm
I repeat with Emphasis:
“… for a long day will God make.
And to the pious will the Almighty God
405 Imperishable grant another thing,
When they shall ask the imperishable God:
That He [God] will suffer [SAVE] men from RAGING FIRE
And ENDLESS GNAWING ANGUISH to be SAVED;
And THIS WILL HE [God] DO. For hereafter He [God]
410 Will PLUCK THEM [Wicked] from the RESTLESS FLAME, elsewhere REMOVE THEM [Wicked, the ‘thirsty’ from the ‘Lake of Fire’], and for His own people’s sake [His Bride, Revelation 22:17] Send them to OTHER [Outside Regions of the Kingdom of the Heavens, Matthew 5:19] and eternal [AGE -DURING, Fulfilling John 17:2 toward ALL MEN or ALL FLESH] life With the Immortals [Revelation 20:4 – 6], in Elysian field,” (Sibyline Oracles, Book II, 297-322, p. 51)
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