Apocalypse of Peter – Why is it not in the Bible?
Facts:
The “Apocalypse of Peter” was accepted to be Truly Inspired as Scripture by Mainstream First Christians in this Muratorian Cannon itself who further added a ‘word of secrecy*’ regarding it as it adds:
“… “though some amongst us will not have this latter read in the Church.” …” – Muratorian Cannon regarding the “Apocalypse of Peter”
Source for Image & quote above:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muratorian_fragment
*Secrecy probably because its contents were not for “sinners” as a comment regarding the Salvation from the Lake of Fire (Gehenna) by God’s Great Mercy at the Prayers of Christians for them is ‘not to be easily known by all’ as Commanded to Apostle Peter during this Vision, to quote:
“… In the Ethiopic sources, there is a section following the main body of The Apocalypse of Peter that scholars like R.B. Bauckham consider to be a separate story written centuries later based on Chapter 14.[12] This separate story explains that in the end God will save all sinners from their plight in Hell: “My Father will give unto them all the life, the glory, and the kingdom that passeth not away, … It is because of them that have believed in me that I am come. It is also because of them that have believed in me, that, at their word, I shall have pity on men… ” Thus, in this additional story, sinners will finally be saved by the prayers of those in heaven. Peter then orders his son Clement not to speak of this revelation since God had told Peter to keep it secret: [and God said]”… thou must not tell that which thou hearest unto the sinners lest they transgress the more, and sin”…”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_of_Peter
Note: We will see in Point 5 later that this is ‘not a later edition as this scholar suggests’ as even the ‘oldest Apocalypse of Peter fragment’ called the Rainer Fragment also contains this ‘Salvation from the Lake of Fire Prophecy’.
Note that the “Wisdom of Solomon” is only rejected by the Protestant churches only as non-Canonical (around the last 500 years) whilst the first church councils of the past all approved it as Scripture, to quote:
“… The Wisdom of Solomon is accepted as canonical by Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox churches and also by the Assyrian Church of the East. Most Protestants consider it apocryphal…”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muratorian_fragment
To quote:
“… The Apocalypse of Peter enjoyed considerable favor in the early Church and was accepted by some Fathers as a genuine work of the apostle. It is mentioned in the Muratorian Fragment in connection with the Apocalypse of John, as a part of the Roman Canon, and is accepted by the author of the fragment himself; although he says that some at that time rejected it**. Clement of Alexandria, in his Hypotyposes (according to Eusebius, IV. 14, below), commented upon it, thus showing that it belonged at that time to the Alexandrian Canon. In the third century it was still received in the North African Church (so Harnack, who refers to the stichometry of the Codex Claramontanus). The Eclogæ or Prophetical Selections of Clement of Alexandria give it as a genuine work of Peter (§§41, 48, 49, p. 1000 sq., Potter’s ed.), and so Methodius of Tyre (Sympos. XI. 6, p. 16, ed. Jahn, according to Lipsius). After Eusebius’ time the work seems to have been universally regarded as spurious, and thus, as its canonicity depended upon its apostolic origin (see chap. 24, note 19), it gradually fell out of the Canon. It nevertheless held its place for centuries among the semi-scriptural books, and was read in many churches. According to Sozomen, H. E. VII. 19, it was read at Easter, which shows that it was treated with especial respect. Nicephorus in his Stichometry puts it among the Antilegomena, in immediate connection with the Apocalypse of John. As Lipsius remarks, its “lay-recognition in orthodox circles proves that it could not have had a Gnostic origin, nor otherwise have contained what was offensive to Catholic Christians” (see Lipsius, Dict. of Christ. Biog. I. p. 130 sqq.). Only a few fragments of the work are extant, and these are given by Hilgenfeld, in his Nov. Test. extra Can. receptum, IV. 74 sq., and by Grabe, Spic. Patr. I. 71 sqq….”
Source:
http://www.bible-researcher.com/eusebius.html
**The phrase “… although he says that some at that time rejected it…” is incorrect as the author of the Muratorian Cannon did NOT mention any True Christian of his time ‘rejecting it’ but only that ‘they regarded it to be not read publicly in the Church’ as the actual written phrase therein is “… “though some amongst us will not have this latter [Apocalypse of Peter] read in the Church.” …” agreeing to this for reasons of ‘secrecy of such Divine Knowledge’ as explained earlier.
Comment: Only in the time after Eusebius onward, the “Apocalypse of Peter” seem to have been considered spurious and hence it is not of relevance to the First Christianity position reflected via the Muratorian Fragment among the Most Faithful.
Example: “… Clement of Alexandria appears to have considered the Apocalypse of Peter to be holy scripture. Eusebius, Historia Ecclesiae (VI.14.1) describes a lost work of Clement’s, the Hypotyposes (Outlines), that gave “abridged accounts of all the canonical Scriptures, not even omitting those that are disputed, I mean the book of Jude and the other general epistles. Also the Epistle of Barnabas and that called the Revelation of Peter.”[13] So the work must have existed in the first half of the 2nd century.[14] Although the numerous references to it attest that it was once in wide circulation, the Apocalypse of Peter was ultimately not accepted into the Christian canon….”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_of_Peter
To quote:
“… Although Dionysius held the work as inspired and authoritative, yet his position would lead logically to the exclusion of the Apocalypse [of John] from the canon, just as Hermas had been already excluded, although Origen held it to be inspired and authoritative in the same sense in which Dionysius held the Apocalypse to be,—i.e. as composed by an apostle’s pupil, not by an apostle. Apocalyptic literature did not belong properly to the New Testament, but rather to the prophetic portion of the Old Testament; but the number of the Old Testament prophets was already complete (according to the Muratorian Fragment), and therefore no prophetic writing (e.g. Hermas) could find a place there; nor, on the other hand, could it be made a part of the New Testament, for it was not apostolic. The SAME WAS TRUE of the APOCALYPSE of PETER, and the only thing which kept the Apocalypse of John in the canon was its supposed apostolic authorship. It was received as a part of the New Testament not because it was apocalyptic, but because it was apostolic, and thus the criticism of Dionysius would lead logically to its rejection from the canon….”
Source:
http://www.bible-researcher.com/eusebius.html
*The Rainer Text is the Oldest Discovered Text of the Apocalypse of Peter which Contains this Salvation from the Lake of Fire (Gehenna) Prophecy Silencing the ‘biased-ambiguous claims by scholars not in favour of it, to quote:
“… In the version of the text in the 3rd century Rainer Fragment, the earliest fragment of the text, Chapter 14 describes the salvation of those condemned sinners for whom the righteous pray. The sinners are saved out of Hell through their baptism in the Acherusian Lake..” – Part of the Earliest Known First Christianity Version of the Apocalypse of Peter
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_of_Peter
“… There is a great deal more of the Ethiopic text, but it is very evidently of later date [the opinion of this scholar is refuted by the Rainer Fragment Discovery as Described in Point 5 earlier]; the next words are: … Next: ‘ The Father hath committed all judgement unto the Son.’ The destiny of sinners -their eternal doom- is more than Peter can endure: he appeals to Christ to have pity on them. And my Lord answered me and said to me: ‘Hast thou understood that which I said unto thee before? It is permitted unto thee to know that concerning which thou askest: but thou must not tell that which thou hearest unto the sinners lest they transgress the more, and sin.’ Peter weeps many hours, and is at last consoled by an answer which, though exceedingly diffuse and vague does seem to promise ultimate pardon for all: ‘My Father will give unto them all the life, the glory, and the kingdom that passeth not away,’ . . . ‘It is because of them that have believed in me that I am come. It is also because of them that have believed in me, that, at their word, I shall have pity on men.’ The doctrine that sinners will be saved at last by the prayers of the righteous is, rather obscurely, enunciated in the Second Book of the Sibylline Oracles (a paraphrase, in this part, of the Apocalypse), and in the (Coptic) Apocalypse of Elias (see post). Ultimately Peter orders Clement to hide this revelation in a box, that foolish men may not see it. The passage in the Second Book of the Sibylline Oracles which seems to point to the ultimate salvation of all sinners will be found in the last lines of the translation given below. The passage in the Coptic Apocalypse of Elias is guarded and obscure in expression, but significant. It begins with a sentence which has a parallel in Peter. The righteous will behold the sinners in their punishment, and those who have persecuted them and delivered them up. Then will the sinners on their part behold the place of the righteous and be partakers of grace. In that day will that for which the (righteous) shall often pray, be granted to them. That is, as I take it, the salvation of sinners will be granted at the prayer of the righteous.Compare also the Epistle of the Apostles, 40: ‘the righteous are sorry for the sinners, and pray for them…. And I will hearken unto the prayer of the righteous which they make for them.’…”
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apocalypsepeter-mrjames.html
[Emphasis Mine throughout]
“… and yet to recognize that His kingdom is ETERNAL, that is to say, the kingdom of the Son, for in the Name of Jesus EVERY KNEE shakes in HEAVEN, on the EARTH, and IN HELL. (Philip. 2) The Apostle St. Peter confirms this truth when he says:” No other name under heaven was given to MEN by which we were to BE SAVED.” (Acts 4) And did not the Lord Himself say to His disciples, “Until now you have not asked anything in my name, ask and I will answer you?” (Jn. 16:24) The REIGN of the Son therefore consists in the fact that it is in HIS NAME that ALL MEN are SAVED, and that ALL the PRAYERS addressed to Him until the end of the world are ANSWERED. But when ALL CREATURES have confessed Jesus Christ WILLINGLY or by FORCE, and have been subjected to the power against which they have resisted, then the MYSTERY of ONE GOD will be REVEALED to ALL MEN, and all thanksgivings will go back to God the Father, the principle of all things, that ALL PREACHING CEASE, ONE GOD be recognized in the MYSTERY of the TRINITY. … ” – Ambrosiaster (Written c. 366 – c. 384, Reply to Question 26, Commentary on the Gospel of Luke)
Source:
“In THAT DAY you will not question Me about anything. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you. “Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 16:23 – 24, NASB)
Comment: Please notice carefully that Ambrosiaster quotes John 16:24 where in John 16:23 (see these Verses above), it is clear that the Context is “in THAT DAY” (probably the Seventh or Eighth Day onward in the Messianic Prophecies Timeline), all prayer requests especially for the Salvation of the Damned [that the ‘Eternal Hell Sentence’ may be Cancelled by His Mercy which can Triumph Over & End any Judgment Sentence, James 2:13] will be Answered causing this Universal Salvation of ‘All Men in heaven, Earth or Hell’ (Context: Please read the above ‘carefully’) agreeing to the Prophecies of the Apocalypse of Peter, Apocalypse of Elijah, Apocalypse of Zephaniah, the Christian-Jewish Sibyline Oracles, the Epistle of the Apostles, St. Julian of Norwich’s Visions & even the Visions of Sadhu Sundar Singh as it was Discussed in Previous posts, link below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/amp/
Conclusion
The Apocalypse of Peter which contains the Christ Centered Universalism Prophecy is currently the oldest known Authentic one. The Nag Hammadi’s Gnostic Version is entirely out of question as even the quotations from early church fathers such as St. Clement of Alexandria & Methodius of Olympus clearly prove that this Version is being referred to as it is listed in Mr James’ translation Section A in last link above too under this Same Text (Version). The Apocalypse of Peter was considered Canonical Scripture in First Christianity as evidenced by the Muratorian Cannon but just that it should not be read publicly in church due to its Superior Divine Knowledge less the sinners transgress the more (hence incur even greater condemnation). If we accept the Apocalypse of Peter as Canonical, it would mark that all Books/Writings listed in the Muratorian Cannon would thus be Equal to us hence we would finally achieve the Same First Christianity in its Fullest again. Regardless, accepting it as Scripture is already endorsed in the Muratorian Cannon and hence no Christian now believing likewise may be condemned as it was not then either. So, each one’s choice of faith determines how much one pleases God too in accordance to His Word (as this is First Christianity).
“And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.” (Hebrews 11:6, NASB)
Peace to you
Mercy on All Eventually – Romans 11:32 Context – Which All?
Bible Translations for Romans 11:32:
“New American Standard Bible
For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
New King James Version
For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
King James Bible
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.”
‘Let Scripture interpret Scripture’ – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria
From the ‘Wisdom of Solomon Scripture’ we find the Following Answer/Context that His Mercy for “All” = All Created Things including ‘all human beings’ souls’, Eventually, to quote:
“23 But thou hast mercy upon all; for thou canst do all things, and winkest at the sins of men, because they should amend. 24 For thou lovest all the things that are, and abhorrest nothing which thou hast made: for never wouldest thou have made any thing, if thou hadst hated it. 25 And how could any thing have endured, if it had not been thy will? or been preserved, if not called by thee? 26 But thou sparest all: for they are thine, O Lord, thou lover of souls.” (Wisdom of Solomon 11:23 – 26, King James Bible Version, KJV)
Source:
https://m.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Wisdom-of-Solomon-Chapter-11/
Is the Wisdom of Solomon Holy Scripture?
It has always been Holy Scripture in First Christianity as Evidenced (being listed in the First Oldest Muratorian Canon too), to quote:
“… Melito of Sardis[7] in the 2nd century AD, Augustine[8] (c. 397 AD) and Pope Innocent I (405 AD)[9][10] considered Wisdom of Solomon as part of the Old Testament. Athanasius writes that the Book of Wisdom along with three other deuterocanonical books, while not being part of the Canon, “were appointed by the Fathers to be read”.[11] Epiphanius of Salamis (c. 385 AD) mentions that the Wisdom of Solomon was of disputed canonicity.[12] According to the monk Rufinus of Aquileia (c. 400 AD) the Book of Wisdom was not called a canonical but ecclesiastical book.[13]. The Book of Wisdom was listed as canonical by the Council of Rome (382 AD),[14] the Synod of Hippo (393),[15] the Council of Carthage (397) and the Council of Carthage (419),[16][17] the Council of Florence (in 1442)[18] and the Council of Trent (in 1546).[19]…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Wisdom
Please note that Blessed St. Melito of Sardis himself is enough for this approval as it is his cannon of the Old Testament which is in every Bible today too, to quote:
“… Melito of Sardis (Greek: Μελίτων Σάρδεων Melítōn Sárdeōn) (died c. 180) was the bishop of Sardis near Smyrna in western Anatolia, and a great authority in early Christianity. Melito held a foremost place in terms of Bishops in Asia due to his personal influence on Christianity and his literary works, most of which have been lost but of what has been recovered has provided a great insight into Christianity during the second century. Jerome, speaking of the Old Testament canon established by Melito, quotes Tertullian to the effect that he was esteemed as a prophet by many of the faithful. This work by Tertullian has been lost but Jerome quotes pieces regarding Melito for the high regard in which he was held at that time. Melito is remembered for his work on developing the first Old Testament Canon. Though it cannot be determined what date he was elevated to an episcopacy, it is probable that he was bishop during the arising controversy at Laodicea in regard to the observance of Easter, which resulted in him writing his most famous work, an Apology for Christianity to Marcus Aurelius. Little is known of his life outside what works are quoted or read by Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Eusebius. A letter of Polycrates of Ephesus to Pope Victor about 194 (Eusebius, Church History V.24) states that “Melito the eunuch [this is interpreted “the virgin” by Rufinus in his translation of Eusebius], whose whole walk was in the Holy Spirit”, was buried at Sardis….”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melito_of_Sardis
The Bishop Polycrates of Ephesus who wrote regarding Blessed. St. Melito himself was a great First Christianity authority who confronted even Rome at that time regarding certain doctrinal issues to the point that even St. Irenaeous of Lyons even rebuked Pope Victor for trying to condemn Polycrates & to the extent that the Pope’s decision was ‘reversed’, to quote:
“… Polycrates of Ephesus (/pəˈlɪkrəˌtiːz/; Greek: Πολυκράτης; fl. c. 130 – 196) was an Early Christian bishop who resided in Ephesus. Roberts and Donaldson noted that Polycrates “belonged to a family in which he was the eighth Christian bishop; and he presided over the church of Ephesus, in which the traditions of St. John were yet fresh in men’s minds at the date of his birth. He had doubtless known Polycarp, and Irenaeus also. He seems to have presided over a synod of Asiatic bishops (A.D. 196) which came together to consider this matter of the Paschal feast. It is surely noteworthy that nobody doubted that it was kept by a Christian and Apostolic ordinance.”… Pope Victor attempted to cut off from the common unity Polycrates and others for taking this stance, but later reversed his decision after Irenaeus and others rebuked Victor…”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycrates_of_Ephesus
*The issue was about ‘which date’ to celebrate the Christianized Jewish Passover which is actually allowed by apostle Paul toward the Gentiles (e.g. 1 Corinthians 5:8) but not observing it also is allowed for a Gentile Believer as these are a personal choice available of which either choice ‘cannot be judged/condemned’ (Colossians 2:16). Here, Polycrates of Ephesus defends their celebration of the Jewish Passover as Gentile Christians while Rome (Pope Victor) believed that they should observe it as Gentile Christians on a different date (as Easter) causing the friction between them in which the Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons intervened & rebuked Pope Victor to Reverse the Condemnation Decision as described above.
Peace to you
Destroyed to be Saved – Two Ways now: Life vs Death – Our Choice
In the ancient quote below from First Christianity, The Way of Life vs The Way of Death is Contrasted briefly. It is interesting to note that the context of ‘every man’ who ‘receives’ a giving by a giver but if he lied about it (so, it must refer to a case of a liar/thief who certainly are classified among the ‘wicked’) thus it’s an example of someone in the ‘Way of Death’ who shall indeed be Judged in the “Confinement” (“Prison, Matthew 5:26 or Luke 12:59) but ’till the last penny, not forever’, right? Where as we discussed in previous posts, the “prison” can refer to ‘Hell now’ (or “Hades”, 1 Peter 3:18 – 19) after death for some or it may also refer to the ‘Final Hell’ or the ‘Lake of Fire, Gehenna’ (Revelation 20:11 – 15, Matthew 10:28) for some together with the ‘fallen angels and demons’ (Isaiah 24:21 – 22), right?
To quote:
“… There are two ways, one of life and one of death, but a great difference between the two ways. The way of life, then, is this: First, you shall love God who made you; second, love your neighbor as yourself, and do not do to another what you would not want done to you. And of these sayings the teaching is this: Bless those who curse you, and pray for your enemies, and fast for those who persecute you. For what reward is there for loving those who love you? Do not the Gentiles do the same? But love those who hate you, and you shall not have an enemy. Abstain from fleshly and worldly lusts. If someone strikes your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and you shall be perfect. If someone impresses you for one mile, go with him two. If someone takes your cloak, give him also your coat. If someone takes from you what is yours, ask it not back, for indeed you are not able. Give to every one who asks you, and ask it not back; for the Father wills that to all should be given of our own blessings (free gifts). Happy is he who gives according to the commandment, for he is guiltless. WOE to HIM WHO RECEIVES; for if one receives who has need, he is guiltless; but he who RECEIVES NOT having NEED shall PAY the PENALTY, why he received and for what. And coming into CONFINEMENT, he shall be EXAMINED concerning the THINGS which he HAS DONE, and he shall NOT ESCAPE from THERE until he PAYS back the LAST PENNY. And also concerning this, it has been said, Let your alms sweat in your hands, until you know to whom you should give…” – The Didache, The Lord’s Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations. (1st Century, Chapter 1. The Two Ways and the First Commandment)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html
Conclusion – the Context for “Confinement till the last penny” (not forever but a long time into the age/ages, or aeon/aeons) seems to be Stronger for the Final Lake of Fire Context as these Verses mention both an equivalent word meaning “Confined” and “Prison” referring to this Final Judgment
” 21So it will happen in that day,
That the LORD will punish the host of heaven on high,
And the kings of the earth on earth.
22They will be gathered together
Like prisoners in the dungeon,
And will be CONFINED in PRISON;
And after many days they will be punished*.” (Isaiah 24:21 – 22, NASB)
*The Word in Hebrew is actually “Visited/Inspected” and not punished but the translator in NASB introduces a bias where he translates thus assuming that the ‘reason for visiting is to punish more’.
It has been noted that the ‘reason for inspection after many days (or ages/aeons allegorically referred to here)’ is to check and see whether or not the required change toward Subjection to God by all is achieved or not (as per the Prophecies in Hebrews 2:8, 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 29) making sense of the more accurate translation of the KJV (King James Version for this original word) as follows:
“And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the PRISON, and AFTER MANY DAYS shall they be VISITED.” (Isaiah 24:22, KJV)
Yes, not yet:
“YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET.” For in subjecting all things to Him, He left nothing that is not subject to Him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to Him.” – Anonymous (Hebrews 2:8, NASB)
The Promised Return after Hell in Holy Scripture, Verse:
“For thou hast power of life and death: thou leadest to the gates of hell, and bringest up again.” (Wisdom of Solomon 16:13, KJV)
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Wisdom-of-Solomon-Chapter-16/
“Over them only was spread an heavy night, an image of that darkness which should afterward receive them: but yet were they unto themselves more grievous than the darkness. Nevertheless thy saints had a very great light, whose voice they hearing, and not seeing their shape, because they also had not suffered the same things, they counted them happy. But for that they did not hurt them now, of whom they had been wronged before, they thanked them, and besought them pardon for that they had been enemies. Instead whereof thou gavest them a burning pillar of fire, both to be a guide of the unknown journey, and an harmless sun to entertain them honourably. For they were worthy to be deprived of light and imprisoned in darkness, who had kept thy sons shut up, by whom the uncorrupt light of the law was to be given unto the world.” (Wisdom of Solomon consecutive Verses in 17:21, 18: 1 – 4, KJV)
Sources:
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Wisdom-of-Solomon-Chapter-17/
and
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Wisdom-of-Solomon-Chapter-18/
The Fact that even the ‘Wicked’ shall finally be Subject to Christ and obey His Commands as the Context of Verses above is Mysteriously Prophesied by the Great Christian Apologist, the Blessed St. Justin Martyr himself, to quote:
This is seen even in St. Justin Martyr’s quote below which may point to the ‘Second Resurrection’ for the Wicked to Happen on that Eighth Day (which is after the Righteous’ Sabbath-Seventh-Day-1000 years Millennial Reign Rest of the First Resurrection) as it is implied below:
To Quote:
“… The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first. “Moreover, the prescription that twelve bells be attached to the [robe] of the high priest, which hung down to the feet, was a symbol of the twelve apostles, who depend on the power of Christ, the eternal Priest; and through their voice it is that all the earth has been filled with the glory and grace of God and of His Christ. Wherefore David also says: ‘Their sound has gone forth into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.’ And Isaiah speaks as if he were personating the apostles, when they say to Christ that they believe not in their own report, but in the power of Him who sent them. And so he says: ‘Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child. Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation. And in short, sirs,” said I, “by enumerating all the other appointments of Moses I can demonstrate that they were types, and symbols, and declarations of those things which would happen to Christ, of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him, and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself. But since what I have now enumerated appears to me to be sufficient, I revert again to the order of the discourse.” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER XLI & CHAPTER XLII, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Please also notice ‘carefully’ how St. Justin Martyr distinguishes the Church as One Body vs the Wicked converted as ‘One Child’ as two different entities as follows:
“…We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child … and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself …” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr
“… Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation … of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him,…” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr
The Concept that the Purpose of Hades and the Lake of Fire leads to Destruction / Death first followed by being “Saved/Restored” later toward “all things” that is cast into it is echoed by both Blessed St. Justin Martyr and Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria in their own words below, to quote:
Lake of Fire or Gehenna as a means of Universal Salvation – St. Justin Martyr and St. Clement of Alexandria.
Really?
Yes. In fact, both of them quote these same passage from ‘Greek Philosophy’ in the Context of the ‘part they got right’ as follows (please compare and see ‘how identical’ they each quote & believe this same passage’ in the Context from Hades to the ‘Lake of Fire’):
“Then further concerning Him, that He alone is powerful, both to institute judgment on the deeds performed in life, and on the ignorance of the Deity [displayed by men], I can adduce witnesses from your own ranks; and first Sophocles, who speaks as follows:
“… That time of times shall come, shall surely come, When from the golden ether down shall fall Fire’s teeming treasure, and in burning flames All things of earth and heaven shall be consumed; And then, when all creation is dissolved, The sea’s last wave shall die upon the shore, The bald earth stript of trees, the burning air No winged thing upon its breast shall bear. There are two roads to Hades, well we know; By this the righteous, and by that the bad, On to their separate fates shall tend; and He, Who ALL THINGS had DESTROYED, shall ALL THINGS SAVE.” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER 3, Testimonies to a future judgment, On the Sole Government of God)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-sole.html
Focus Phrase: “That time of times shall come, … in burning flames All things of earth and heaven shall be consumed; And then, when all creation is dissolved, … here are two roads to Hades, well we know; By this the righteous, and by that the bad, On to their separate fates shall tend… and He, Who ALL THINGS had DESTROYED, shall ALL THINGS SAVE” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr
Lord Jesus Christ Saves even from Hades now to the Final Lake of Fire (Gehenna)
“… There is an eye of justice, which sees all. For two ways, as we deem, to Hades lead- One for the good, the other for the bad. But if the earth hides both for ever, then Go plunder, steal, rob, and be turbulent. But err not. For in Hades judgment is, Which God the Lord of all will execute, Whose name too dreadful is for me to name, Who gives to sinners length of earthly life. If any mortal thinks, that day by day, While doing ill, he eludes the gods keen sight, His thoughts are evil; and when justice has The leisure, he shall then detected be So thinking. Look, whoe’er you be that say That there is not a God. There is, there is. If one, by nature evil, evil does, Let him redeem the time; for such as he Shall by and by due punishment receive.” And with this agrees the tragedy in the following lines: “For there shall come, shall come that point of time, When Ether, golden-eyed, shall ope its store Of treasured fire; and the devouring flame, Raging, shall burn all things on earth below, And all above.” . . .And after a little he adds: “And when the whole world fades, And vanished all the abyss of ocean’s waves, And earth of trees is bare; and wrapt in flames, The air no more begets the winged tribes; Then He who ALL DESTROYED, shall ALL RESTORE.” – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria (c.150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 5)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book5.html
Focus Phrase: “And when the whole world fades, And vanished all the abyss of ocean’s waves, And earth of trees is bare; and wrapt in flames, The air no more begets the winged tribes; Then He who ALL DESTROYED, shall ALL RESTORE.” – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria
Peace to you
Mysteries of God – Neutrality if we are not sure who is a False Prophet?
For Example please allow me to quote from First Christianity’s Book called the “Didache” or the “Teaching of the Twelve Apostles” regarding who is a False Apostle/Prophet, to quote:
“… Whosoever, therefore, comes and teaches you all these things that have been said before, receive him. But if the teacher himself turns and teaches another doctrine to the destruction of this, hear him not. But if he teaches so as to increase righteousness and the knowledge of the Lord, receive him as the Lord. But concerning the apostles and prophets, act according to the decree of the Gospel. Let every apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord. But he shall not remain more than one day; or two days, if there’s a need. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet. And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges. If he asks for money, he is a false prophet. And every prophet who speaks in the Spirit you shall neither try nor judge; for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven. But not every one who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet; but only if he holds the ways of the Lord. Therefore from their ways shall the false prophet and the prophet be known. And every prophet who orders a meal in the Spirit does not eat it, unless he is indeed a false prophet. And every prophet who teaches the truth, but does not do what he teaches, is a false prophet. And every prophet, proved true, working unto the mystery of the Church in the world, yet not teaching others to do what he himself does, shall not be judged among you, for with God he has his judgment; for so did also the ancient prophets. But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him. But if he tells you to give for others’ sake who are in need, let no one judge him…” – The Didache, Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (1st Century, Chapter 11)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/…/didache-roberts.html
Comments (each quote is from the above unless stated otherwise):
1) No Apostle/Prophet of God Stays Three Days or More during a “Mission Trip/Church Visit”
“… But he shall not remain more than one day; or two days, if there’s a need. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet…” – The Didache
2) Any Apostle/Prophet of God who asks for “Money” during a ‘Mission Trip/Visit to a Church’ is a false prophet
“… And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges. If he asks for money, he is a false prophet….”- The Didache
3) Never Comment on the Spirit inside of a Person even if you realize they are Wrong because a Mistake here could cause you to utter the Unpardonable Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
“… And every prophet who speaks in the Spirit you shall neither try nor judge; for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven. But not every one who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet; but only if he holds the ways of the Lord. Therefore from their ways shall the false prophet and the prophet be known…” – The Didache
So, if you’re not sure about a Doctrine say regarding Eternal Hell or Christ Centered Universalism* or Annihilation, please just be “Neutral” and do not accidentally comment on the Spirit inside a Christian and Commit the Unpardonable Sin.
4) A False Prophet does not Practice what he Preaches
“… And every prophet who orders a meal in the Spirit does not eat it, unless he is indeed a false prophet. And every prophet who teaches the truth, but does not do what he teaches, is a false prophet…” – The Didache
5) A True Prophet may be doing the Right Works though not Teaching others about it – these ones only Let God Alone Judge
“… And every prophet, proved true, working unto the mystery of the Church in the world, yet not teaching others to do what he himself does, shall not be judged among you, for with God he has his judgment; for so did also the ancient prophets…” – The Didache
6) Any Prophet who asks for Money/Materialistic or other things from believers stating that God is Asking is a False Prophet
“… But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him…” – The Didache
7) The Only Money or Things Collection that may be Uttered by a True Prophet of God in a Church Assembly is when he asks for it to be Given to “those in need” (e. g. ‘the poor’ or ‘Charitable Reasons only’)
“… But if he tells you to give for others’ sake who are in need, let no one judge him…” – The Didache
The phrase “let no one judge him” in this case = Take the “Neutrality” Position.
Conclusion
How many of the apostles/prophets in our midst ‘pass this First Christianity Test’ according to the Ancient Writing above?
How Reliable is the “Didache” quoted above?
“… Let there be placed among the spurious works the Acts of Paul, the so-called Shepherd and the Apocalypse of Peter, and besides these the Epistle of Barnabas, and what are called the Teachings of the Apostles, and also the Apocalypse of John, if this be thought proper; for as I wrote before, some reject it, and others place it in the canon…” – Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea, Father of Church History (c. 324 AD)
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didache
*Please note carefully that in Bishop Eusebius’ Time, the “Didache” was placed alongside the “Apocalypse of John” (today it’s in the Bible called the Book of Revelation) and even “the Shepherd” (the Shepherd of Hermas Scripture) and even the “Apocalypse of Peter” together with it.
Though only the “Apocalypse of John” (or Book of Revelation) made its way into the Bible in later Councils due to Some Christians questioning these Books even at that time, the Safest Route would be to Respect each Book Mentioned here as they well could be equivalently Inspired as the “Apocalypse of John” Itself being Classified together at that time as shown here (So, this is the “Neutral” Safe Position I encourage).
Interestingly, the “Apocalypse of Peter” placed alongside these by Bishop Eusebius’ quote above clearly includes the Christ Centered Universalism part where Lord Jesus Christ Saves the Wicked too from the Lake of Fire (Final Judgment, Gehenna) after their Last Penny on Account of the Prayers of the Saved (Christian Righteous) at far into Future Times into the “ages to come” (Ephesians 2:7), to quote:
To quote:
“… In the version of the text in the 3rd century Rainer Fragment, the earliest fragment of the text, Chapter 14 describes the salvation of those condemned sinners for whom the righteous pray. The sinners are saved out of Hell through their baptism in the Acherusian Lake.[11]…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_of_Peter
To quote:
“… In the Ethiopic sources, there is a section following the main body of The Apocalypse of Peter that scholars like R.B. Bauckham consider to be a separate story written centuries later based on Chapter 14.[12] This separate story explains that in the end God will save all sinners from their plight in Hell:
“My Father will give unto them all the life, the glory, and the kingdom that passeth not away, … It is because of them that have believed in me that I am come. It is also because of them that have believed in me, that, at their word, I shall have pity on men… ”
Thus, in this additional story, sinners will finally be saved by the prayers of those in heaven. Peter then orders his son Clement not to speak of this revelation since God had told Peter to keep it secret:
[and God said]”… thou must not tell that which thou hearest unto the sinners lest they transgress the more, and sin”…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_of_Peter
So, let us watch our mouths lest we accidentally commit the Unforgivable Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit for two ages (this Aeon & next, Matthew 12:31 – 32) accidentally by Uttering what we ‘ought not to whilst pre-maturely judging other Christians’ in Certain Sensitive Doctrinal Areas. Best is to Stay “Neutral” regarding these Topics and be Hopeful toward the part which you believe to be more likely true.
Peace to you
Age During Life or Eternal Life or Both?
We hear the word “Aeon” connected to both the ‘life & chastisement’ in Matthew 25:46. Hence both must be eternal or both age-during right? (as St. Augustine argued)
Why can’t it be both? How?
Let’s consider the following points before reading (later) what a Well Learned Great Pope of First Christianity of the Past Revealed regarding the Deep Meaning of these Biblical Words:
1) The Verse in Matthew 25:46 echoes the only Verse in the Old Testament matching it which is Daniel 12:2 – 3 as follows:
“Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. “Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.” – Prophet Daniel (Daniel 12:2 – 3, NASB)
The New Testament’s Koine Greek “Aeon/Aeonian” in Matthew 25:46 is equivalent to Hebrew’s ‘Owlam or Olam’ in Daniel 12:2 – 3.
Let’s look at the Translation for the Verses above with its [Hebrew] equivalent inserted for emphasis:
“Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting [Olam] life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting [Olam] contempt. “Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever [Olam] and ever [wā-‘eḏ.].” – Prophet Daniel (Daniel 12:2 – 3, NASB)
2) Accuracy – Is there a Difference between Daniel 12:2 and Daniel 12:3 or are both just meaning forever?
In Daniel 12:2 it’s just “Olam” = “age” literally
In Daniel 12:3, it’s “Olam wā-‘eḏ” = to the “age” and “continually, permanently” = implying to the “ages” toward no end = “forever & ever”.
3) Possible Meaning?
Righteous: In Daniel 12:2 “Olam Life” = Matthew 25:46’s “age-during life” literally = Resurrected Life for the Christian Righteous in the Sabbath (7th Messianic Day/Age Rest) = the “Times of the Kingdom” in St. Irenaeous of Lyon’s exegesis in ‘Against Heresies’.
Wicked: In Daniel 12:2 “Olam Contempt” = Matthew 25:46’s “age-during Chastisement” literally = Resurrected of Judgment for others during this Sabbath (7th Messianic Day/Age Rest) till the last penny in Gehenna who will be Saved by Fire after doing their time according to their sins (1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15) as we have discussed in detail regarding this Context especially with Blessed ArchBishop St. Ambrose of Milan’s quotes where some will be Raised to Life during the Second Resurrection (probably after the 1000 years, Revelation 20:5) whilst the most wicked may be punished longer.
4) So if the Punishment ends so does the Life in Matthew 25:46 or Daniel 12:2 being not eternal, right?
Yes. St. Irenaeous of Lyons himself uses the phrase “after the times of the kingdom” hinting on a time which is ‘after the Seventh Day or Age (Aeon/Olam)’ in his ‘Against Heresies’ treatise. What time is that?
It’s the Mysterious “Eighth Day” as even St. Justin Martyr has remarked whilst discussing that Context Allegorically using the Law of Moses Writing to discuss how the “Wicked” may be Converted into a Child during this timeline as you may read in a previous sub-topic in post below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/amp
5) So, the Life is not eternal in Matthew 25:46?
That “Seventh Day” (Messianic Aeon/Olam) Life is not eternal.
Wait, what? Please hear me out first before accusing me of Blasphemy by partially quoting me.
This is because the Life & Punishment of the Seventh Age as it is Described in Daniel 12:2 to stand in contrast as the Reward of Faith vs Chastisement for Betterment (or “Kolasin in Greek” in in Matthew 25:46) of the Wicked.
Yes, that ‘Life for the Righteous Ends’ not in Death but a Glorification Toward a Higher Perfected Eternal Life from the ‘Eighth Day or Eighth Age/Aeon/Olam’ onward as this Church Father Reveals Majestically:
“… Such, according to David, “rest in the holy hill of God,” in the Church [Sheepfold1] far on high, in which are gathered the philosophers of God, “who are Israelites indeed, who are pure in heart, in whom there is no guile; ” who do not remain in the seventh seat, the place of rest, but are promoted, through the active beneficence of the divine likeness, to the heritage of beneficence which is the eighth grade; devoting themselves to the pure vision of insatiable contemplation…” – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD, CHAPTER XIV, Stromata Book 6)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
Focus Phrase: “… who do not remain in the seventh seat [i.e. Age-during life on the Seventh Day/Age/Aeon/Olam], the place of [Sabbath] rest, but are promoted, through the active beneficence of the divine likeness, to the heritage of beneficence which is the eighth grade [Age-during life on the Eighth Day/Age/Aeon/Olam toward eternity]…”
6) Is there a Direct Authority in Doctrine quoting this distinction between ‘to the Age’ vs ‘Eternity’ along these exegetical lines?
Yes, to quote:
He Had a Vision directly from God to Accurately Analyze Correct Theology, to quote:
“… Dionysius converted to Christianity when he received a vision sent from God; in it he was commanded to vigorously study the heresies facing the Christian Church so that he could refute them through doctrinal study. After his conversion, he joined the Catechetical School of Alexandria and was a student of Origen and Pope Heraclas. …”
Source of quote & more in link below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Dionysius_of_Alexandria
To Quote:
“… I read both the critical researches and the traditional treatises[90] of the heretics, defiling my soul a little with their abominable opinions and yet gaining this advantage from them, that I could [57]refute them for myself and abhor them much more thoroughly. And indeed when a certain brother among the presbyters tried to restrain me and frighten me from contaminating myself with the mire of their iniquity (he said I should ruin my soul, and, as I perceived, there was truth in what he said), a heaven-sent vision[91] came and strengthened me, and words came to me which expressly ordered me thus: “Read all that may come to thy hands: for thou art competent to sift and test everything, and that was the original reason[92] of thy accepting the Faith.” I acknowledged the vision as in agreement with the apostolic voice which says to the more able: “Approve yourselves bankers of repute.” …” – Blessed Pope St. Dionysius the Great of Alexandria (Papacy: c. 248 AD – c. 264 AD, Recorded in ‘To Philemon’, Eus., H. E. vii. 7)
Source:
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/36539/36539-h/36539-h.htm
iii. What did his Accurate Doctrine Reveal in regards to the Word Aeon/Olam vs Ages or Eternity?
To Quote:
“… One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever” (unto the age, Ecclesiastes 1:4). Yes, unto the age, but not unto the ages…” – Blessed Pope St. Dionysius the Great of Alexandria (Papacy: c. 248 AD – c. 264 AD, ‘A Commentary on the Beginning of Ecclesiastes’)
Source:
https://www.ecatholic2000.com/fathers/untitled-229.shtml#_Toc390296607
Focus Phrase: “… Yes, unto the age, but not unto the ages …”
Please note carefully that the Well Learned Pope St. Dionysius the Great is clearly Revealing that the Hebrews Word “Olam” (in his quote of Ecclesiastes 1:4) does NOT mean ‘forever’ but is referring to ‘the Age/Aeon/Olam’ (Seventh Day) but not to a time which follows after that, namely the “Ages to Come” (e.g. Ephesians 2:7, implied).
So, he is clearly implying that the ‘Life in the Seventh Day/Age/Olam’ is on this same Renewed-Earth (Matthew 25:46, Daniel 12:2) but following-ly, his phrase “not unto the ages” means that the Current Earth does not last beyond that ‘having passed away’ being ‘Replaced by a New Earth’ (Revelation 21:1) thereafter into the “ages” to come [which Begins with the Messianic Eighth or the “times after the kingdom” in St. Irenaeous’ Writing, implied].
Yes, the same Hebrew Word “Olam” is used both in Ecclesiastes 1:4 and Daniel 12:2 of which Pope St. Dionysius the Great implies that its meaning refers to the particular “Age” (Seventh Day) and “not unto the ages” (Eighth Day toward Eternity) which comes after that proving this same intended meaning again.
So when Holy Scripture says ‘Olam God’, it’s not a limit but a highlight of His God-Ship to that Glorious Messianic Age just like the phrase ‘God of Abraham’ or ‘God of Israel’ does not limit Him to be God for those only. Can you see it?
Verses:
“Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever [Olam] and ever [wā-‘eḏ.].” – Prophet Daniel (Daniel 12:3, NASB)
“The LORD shall reign forever [Olam] and ever [wā-‘eḏ.].” (Exodus 15:18, NASB)
So these Verses are clearly implying that God’s Reign is to that Messianic Age (Seventh Day/Aeon/Olam) and ‘Continually, wā-‘eḏ’ or equivalently, ‘Beyond’. Hence Pope St. Dionysius the Great implies this intrinsically without quoting these Verses as ‘unto the ages [Aeons/Olams]’ (as found in the New Testament too, e.g. Ephesians 2:7).
This Agrees to what was Declared by the Blessed Messenger regarding Christ’s Reign in Verse below too:
“and He shall reign over the house of Jacob to the ages; and of His reign there shall be no end.'” – Blessed ArchAngel Gabriel (Luke 1:33, YLT)
That is,
” to the ages;” = Current Age, next Age (Seventh), the age after that (Eighth) and so on as St. Irenaeous himself remarked that ‘Immortality’ is to be Viewed as a “long Series of Ages (Aeons/Olams)” into the future as God Willed it that way (quote below) sealing this Understanding as ‘more accurate’ First Orthodox Christianity too:
” … But ALL THINGS which proceed from Him, WHATSOEVER have been MADE, and are made, do indeed receive their own beginning of generation, and on this account are INFERIOR to Him who formed them, inasmuch as they are not unbegotten. Nevertheless THEY ENDURE, and EXTEND their EXISTENCE into a LONG SERIES of AGES [Aeons, Aeon1, Aeon2, Aeon3, …] in accordance with the WILL of GOD their Creator; so that He GRANTS them that they should be thus formed at the beginning, and that they should so exist afterwards.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXXIV, Point 2)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html
“… we [True Christians] ourselves, when at the giving of thanks we pronounce the words, “To Aeons of Aeons” [Revelation 20:10] do set forth these Aeons. And, in fine, wherever the words Aeon or Aeons occur, they at once refer them to these beings.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Chapter III, Book I)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html
Comment: St. Irenaeous clearly refers to time as the “Aeon” (singular) and “Aeons” (Plural) in his last quote above & dispels the Gnostic Myth that these refer to some creatures (beings).
Yes, it’s not a figure of speech as some claim but a literal meaning whose definition extends into the future too as St. Irenaeous points above and is sealed as Truth by St. Ambrose below too from First Christianty, to quote:
8) Ages to Come in Ephesians 2:7 or Revelation 20:10 or in Matthew 12:31 – 32 or is the next Age (Olam/Aeon) eternal?
“… yet that I may satisfy thee on Scriptural grounds, learn that He made not only what is past, but also what is future, as it is written: “Who made things to come.” Elsewhere too Scripture says: “By whom also He made the ages, who is the brightness of His glory and the express Image of His Person.” Now the ages are past and present and future. How then were those made which are future, unless it is that His active power and knowledge contains within itself the number of all the ages? For just as He calls the things that are not as though they were, s so has He made things future as though they were. It cannot come to pass that they should not be. Those things which He has directed to be, necessarily will be. Therefore He who has made the things that are to be, knows them in the way in which they will be. If we are to believe this about the ages, much more must we believe it about the day of judgment, on the ground that the Son of God has knowledge of it, as being already made by Him. For it is written: “According to Thine ordinance the day will continue.” He did not merely say “the day continues,” but even “will continue,” so that the things which are to come might be governed by His ordinance. Does He not know what He ordered? “He who planted the ear, shall He not hear? He that formed the eye shall He not see?” …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 197 – 198 Chapter 4 Pages 730 – 731)
Source:
Four phrases from the above proving this Doctrine of the Ages (Aeons/Olams) to be True: “… By whom also He made the ages … Now the ages are past and present [Aeon1] and future [Aeon2, Aeon3, ….] … unless it is that His active power and knowledge contains within itself the number of all the ages … If we are to believe this about the ages…”
Note that the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit may not be forgiven in this present singular-age (AEON1) or until the future next-singular-age (AEON2) only and Ephesians 2:7 with St. Ambrose’s quote proves that there are “Ages [Plural] to Come” (AEON2, AEON3, … at least) where Forgiveness can be Attained in AEON3 as God Wills as per the Mystery of the Eighth Day (AEON3) which is after His Millennial Reign of the Coming Sabbath-Rest-of-the-Righteous-Seventh-Day (AEON2) as discussed in previous posts such as the one below (which agrees to St. Ambrose’s quote in Point 6 earlier emphasizing that this Blasphemy can be Forgiven eventually) :
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/
9) A Reliable Empirical Evidence – Sadhu Sundar Singh’s Visions
Sadhu Sundar Singh’s last letters just before he disappeared into the Himalayas never to be seen again agrees to this exegesis of “ages” and a tine even ‘after the ages of Ages’ (e.g. Revelation 20:10), to quote:
“… Yes, I have talked with the venerable Swedenborg and some other saints and angels about the hells, although I am unable to explain adequately all that they told me. But it is somewhat like this ; No spirit can exist forever, if separated from God by sin or evil. It must either cease to exist or return to God who is the source of life. There is no spirit which will ever cease to exist ; therefore every spirit finally must return to God, even though it may be after ages of ages. . . . ” – Sadhu Sundar Singh (January 2, 1929)
Source:
https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.51820/2015.51820.Sundar-Singh-A-Biography-1958_djvu.txt
This letter is affirmed as authentic but not to the liking of a some current Christians who label Sundar Singh as a heretic because of it, in link below:
More regarding Sadhu Sundar Singh’s Visions may be read in link below which leads to more links containing his quotes:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/after-the-ages-of-ages-maximum-afterlife-sentence-ends/
Conclusion – How to understand Matthew 25:46 and Daniel 12:2 – 3 under this Exegesis?
A Brief Definition first:
Aeon1 = Current Age (Matthew 13:49, Galatians 1:4) = Current Sixth Day/Age/Olam/Aeon
Aeon2 = Next Age (Matthew 12:31 – 32) or “age-during life in the [next] age to come in Mark 10:30 literally” = Seventh Day/Age/Olam/Aeon
Aeon3 = Exists in the Phrase “Ages to Come” (Ephesians 2:7, Aeon2, Aeon3 … at least being ‘plural-future’ literally in this Verse) = Eighth Day/Age/Olam/Aeon
So, this is how we may understand Matthew 25:46 and Daniel 12:2 – 3 under this Exegesis matching it to the Timeline to which these Verses are Referring to:
“These will go away into eternal [Aeon2] punishment, but the righteous into eternal [Aeon2] life.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ, King of All Ages (Matthew 25:46, NASB)
“Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting [Aeon2] life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting [Aeon2] contempt. “Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever [to Aeon2] and ever [Continually: Aeon2, Aeon3, … – Forever].” – Prophet Daniel (Daniel 12:2 – 3, NASB)
Please notice carefully that the stronger phrase in Daniel 12:3, namely “Olam wā-‘eḏ” has never been used to denote any afterlife Judgment Sentence but only the weaker single-Age-Olam-Aeon in Daniel 12:2. Isn’t God Truly All-Merciful & Just?
Peace to you
Mystery of Christ – Christ Saves All Men even in Hell or only believers?
Please consider this brief ancient Writing (next, below) by a very authoritative early Christian leader who seemed to lean on eternal Hell* where he actually remarkably hints that Christ may Save ‘All Men’ in Hell** or ‘believers only’ as a question?
*if the word ‘age-during’ representing ‘aeonian in Koine Greek’ in such Verses is actually ‘eternal in idiomatic style of speech’ (e.g. Matthew 25:46)
**The Hell here (in his quote below) could refer to Hades or Gehenna (Lake of Fire). If it’s Hades, it can mean that another chance of Salvation is given there as per the ‘Mystery of Christ’? So, if it’s not received there, their condemnation may be well deserved & likewise if it means Gehenna (Lake of Fire).
“… And if, like a Thomas, you were left out when the disciples were assembled to whom Christ shews Himself, when you do see Him be not faithless;4674 and if you do not believe, then believe those who tell you; and if you cannot believe them either, then have confidence in the print of the nails. If He DESCEND into HELL,4675 descend with Him. Learn to know the MYSTERIES of CHRIST THERE ALSO, what is the PROVIDENTIAL PURPOSE of the TWOFOLD DESCENT, to SAVE ALL MEN absolutely by His manifestation, OR THERE TOO ONLY THEM THAT BELIEVE ….” – Blessed St. Cyril, ArchBishop of Jerusalem, Doctor of the Church (c. 313 AD – c. 386 AD, Point XXIV, Oration XLV. The Second Oration on Easter, via Philip Schaff, Page 641)
Source:
I repeat with emphasis (please note that the Original Greek/Hebrew does not have question mark in its linguistics so it is hard to determine whether this is a question or a rhetoric speech or an equivalent term or an option?) so it would be clearer as follows though some may contest that the quote is referring to ‘all men’ = ‘those who believe on earth (faith)) which contradicts the phrase that they believe there (in Hell) as St. Cyril implies, right?
Please consider Again:
Comment: The Fact that he points to apostle Thomas’ ‘Seeing after believing example’ (John 20:29) and relates it to the ‘believing after seeing in Hell’ by Christ’s twofold Descent Purpose, St. Cyril of Jerusalem clearly seems to imply that this is a Possible ‘Mystery in Christ’ in the Context of Christ ‘Saving All Men’ as it seems to point ‘if they choose to believe Him there (in Hell) after seeing Him agreeing to John 6:40 or John 3:14 too’, right?
“… And if, like a Thomas, you were left out when the disciples were assembled to whom Christ shews Himself, when you do see Him be not faithless;4674 and if you do not believe, then believe those who tell you; and if you cannot believe them either, then have confidence in the print of the nails. If He DESCEND into HELL,4675 descend with Him. Learn to know the MYSTERIES of CHRIST THERE ALSO [in Hell], what is the PROVIDENTIAL PURPOSE of the TWOFOLD DESCENT [on Earth & in Hell], to SAVE ALL MEN absolutely by His manifestation, OR THERE TOO [in Hell] ONLY THEM THAT BELIEVE? ….” – Blessed St. Cyril, ArchBishop of Jerusalem, Doctor of the Church (c. 313 AD – c. 386 AD, Point XXIV, Oration XLV. The Second Oration on Easter, via Philip Schaff, Page 641)
[Emphasis Mine]
The phrase ” to SAVE ALL MEN absolutely by His manifestation … OR THERE TOO [in Hell] ONLY THEM THAT BELIEVE?” could mean:
1) Christ Saves All Men who are cast into Hell Eventually as the Mystery of Christ
or
2) Christ Saves All Men in Hell who believe Him there as the Mystery of Christ
If the person is already a believer on earth, he would have gone to the blessed regions of “Paradise” (which existed before Christ Resurrected Himself, Luke 23:43) or the ‘Blessed Abodes of Comfort in Hades such as where Abraham’s Bossom where the beggar Lazarus was, Luke 16:19 – 31′ upon death and Christ’s Descend into Hell (Hades’ Punishment Regions of “Prison”, 1 Peter 3:18 – 19) must thus refer in Context of St. Cyril’s quote to the ‘punished ones/lost ones’, right?
Note: Such a final chance given by God is uttered Mysteriously in the Prophecy of the Book of Enoch too where such may be ‘Saved with no honour’ (hence not referring to the Christian Salvation or ‘the Elect’ in Verse below) on Judgment Day either toward those in the Lake of Fire (Gehenna) or prior or both, to quote:
“1 And in those days a change shall take place for the holy and elect, And the light of days shall abide upon them, And glory and honour shall turn to the holy, 2 On the day of affliction on which evil shall have been treasured up against the sinners.And the righteous shall be victorious in the name of the Lord of Spirits: And He will cause the others to witness (this) That they may repent And forgo the works of their hands. 3 They shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits, Yet through His name shall they be saved, And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them, For His compassion is great. 4 And He is righteous also in His judgement, And in the presence of His glory unrighteousness also shall not maintain itself: At His judgement the unrepentant shall perish before Him. 5 And from henceforth I will have no mercy on them, saith the Lord of Spirits.” (Book of Enoch, Chapter 50)
Translation Source:
http://wesley.nnu.edu/index.php?id=2126
Conclusion – All Men may Really be Saved in the End
Says who?
“Ambrosiaster”.
Who is he?
Please note that what “Ambrosiaster” wrote was the First Roman Catholic Theology which existed before St. Augustine’s views and before St. Jerome’s views which Represented what ‘all the Roman Catholic Popes before these theologians appeared may have believed ‘ [as it was Written during the Papacy of Pope Damasus I & even Augustine read it later showing that it was officially widespread] and so this Writing/Commentary is Well Preserved. Furthermore, if you read the Interesting quote below (next), you will see that the Final Christian Truth seems to be Christ Centered Universalism. Really? Please decide for yourselves after you read it next (below):
“Ambrosiaster is the name given to the writer of a commentary on St Paul’s epistles, “brief in words but weighty in matter,” and valuable for the criticism of the Latin text of the New Testament.[1] The commentary itself was written during the papacy of Pope Damasus I, that is, between 366 and 384, and is considered an important document of the Latin text of Paul before the Vulgate of Jerome, and of the interpretation of Paul prior to Augustine of Hippo.[2] This commentary was erroneously attributed for a long time to St Ambrose.”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrosiaster
“… So that the unbelieving Jews would remain wrapped up in an eternal night, and that the day would not appear the author of so great a crime, of so enormous sacrilege, but of the night; the day against the natural order of things is submitted to the preceding night, just as the God and Lord of all things is subject to the prince of death, in order to DELIVER ALL MEN from the CHAINS of DEATH…” – Ambrosiaster (Written c. 366 – c. 384, Reply to Question 64, Commentary on the Gospel of Luke)
Source:
Some may argue that it is a little vague in the above.
“… The prophet Joel also predicted this phenomenon so that one cannot doubt the fulfillment of a fact attested by several witnesses. “And the sun,” he says, “will be changed into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and terrible DAY of the LORD’s COMING.” (Joel 2:31) . As far as the literal meaning of these words indicates, they seem to be more fitting for the SECOND ADVENT, for then the Lord will manifest himself publicly to ALL MEN, to the testimony of Scripture: “Then every eye will see him, and all the tribes of the earth and those who have crucified him will strike their breast.” (Rev. 1:7) … So the prophet foretold that the Savior would take care of their infirmities, and this prophecy is fulfilled in his time, as we see in the Gospel: “He really has borne our torpor, of our sufferings.” (Isa. 1:4) All these predictions have received their consummation and fulfillment in the Savior’s passion, and thus the SALVATION of the HUMAN RACE has been done in a true way for those who were on EARTH or in HELL*, for the prophecy of Zachariah embraces both of them at once. On earth, men have been freed from the oppression of their enemies by the intervention of the mercy of God, and in HELL* THEY were DELIVERED from the SORROWS THEY ENDURED. Indeed, all those who hoped in Christ who had been Promised to them awaited the coming of Him Who was to triumph over DEATH and DELIVER THEM from HELL. This is why Zechariah says: “To fulfill His mercies toward our fathers.” (Luke 1:72) But if it is understood that THIS SALVATION must also come in the SECOND ADVENT, … ” – Ambrosiaster (Written c. 366 – c. 384, Reply to Question 105, Commentary on the Gospel of Luke)
Source:
*Hell = Hades or Gehenna (Lake of Fire), we can’t be sure unless we see the Original but it’s certainly not Christians but some ‘lost ones’ who endured ‘sorrows in Hell first’ till that time of His Second Coming/Advent who ‘hoped in Christ who had been Promised to them’ sounds like ‘good non-Christians’, right?
One thing is for sure: Christians do not come under any afterlife Judgment in Hell (John 5:24) and hence this either Mysterious Salvation refers either to fallen believers and/or good non-Christians (I think both) who may be Saved from their respective ‘lower Hell abode’ from which they had to endure judgment for their sins first before being Saved to an appropriate abode thereafter during His Second Coming especially since after ALL MEN weep for Him as Written first, some of these SAVED ones could be those WHO REPENT at that TIME be it from HELL itself. So Great is His Mercy, right?
“… and yet to recognize that His kingdom is ETERNAL, that is to say, the kingdom of the Son, for in the Name of Jesus EVERY KNEE shakes in HEAVEN, on the EARTH, and IN HELL. (Philip. 2) The Apostle St. Peter confirms this truth when he says:” No other name under heaven was given to MEN by which we were to BE SAVED.” (Acts 4) And did not the Lord Himself say to His disciples, “Until now you have not asked anything in my name, ask and I will answer you?” (Jn. 16:24) The REIGN of the Son therefore consists in the fact that it is in HIS NAME that ALL MEN are SAVED, and that ALL the PRAYERS addressed to Him until the end of the world are ANSWERED. But when ALL CREATURES have confessed Jesus Christ WILLINGLY or by FORCE, and have been subjected to the power against which they have resisted, then the MYSTERY of ONE GOD will be REVEALED to ALL MEN, and all thanksgivings will go back to God the Father, the principle of all things, that ALL PREACHING CEASE, ONE GOD be recognized in the MYSTERY of the TRINITY. … ” – Ambrosiaster (Written c. 366 – c. 384, Reply to Question 26, Commentary on the Gospel of Luke)
Source:
““In THAT DAY you will not question Me about anything. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you. “Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 16:23 – 24, NASB)
Comment: Please notice carefully that Ambrosiaster quotes John 16:24 where in John 16:23 (see these Verses above), it is clear that the Context is “in THAT DAY” (probably the Seventh or Eighth Day onward in the Messianic Prophecies Timeline), all prayer requests especially for the Salvation of the Damned [that the ‘Eternal Hell Sentence’ may be Cancelled by His Mercy which can Triumph Over & End any Judgment Sentence, James 2:13] will be Answered causing this Universal Salvation of ‘All Men in heaven, Earth or Hell’ (Context: Please read the above ‘carefully’) agreeing to the Prophecies of the Apocalypse of Peter, Apocalypse of Elijah, Apocalypse of Zephaniah, the Christian-Jewish Sibyline Oracles, the Epistle of the Apostles, St. Julian of Norwich’s Visions & even the Visions of Sadhu Sundar Singh as it was Discussed in Previous posts.
Furthermore, the Universal Reconciliation toward ALL Rational CREATURES will be Achieved too eventually as the quote in Ambrosiaster above means this in full below (as he quotes that this is the True Meaning of 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28’s God being ALL in ALL in the END), to quote:
“… In so saying, the Son does not lose the kingdom by giving it to his Father, and so these words of the Apostle are true, without the angel and Daniel being in contradiction with them. Whoever thinks it their duty to call in question their testimony would bring unbelief to an excess. But we, whose faith cannot be shaken, see how it is to be understood that the Son hands the kingdom over to his Father, which the Apostle in another place explains in these terms: “Then the Son Himself will be subject to him who has subjected all things to Him, that God may be all in all.” (1 Cor.15) This submission is the very act of surrender of the kingdom, so here is the interpretation that it is necessary to admit, not to deny that the Son is subject to his Father, and yet to recognize that his kingdom is eternal, that is to say, the kingdom of the Son, for in the name of Jesus every knee shakes in heaven, on the earth, and in hell. (Philip. 2) The Apostle St. Peter confirms this truth when he says:” No other name under heaven was given to men by which we were to be saved.” (Acts 4) And did not the Lord Himself say to His disciples, “Until now you have not asked anything in my name, ask and I will answer you?” (Jn. 16) The reign of the Son therefore consists in the fact that it is in his name that all men are saved, and that all the prayers addressed to him until the end of the world are answered. But when all creatures have confessed Jesus Christ willingly or by force, and have been subjected to the power against which they have resisted, then the mystery of one God will be revealed to all men, and all thanksgivings will go back to God the Father, the principle of all things, that all preaching cease, one God be recognized in the mystery of the Trinity. Indeed, when all the powers, all the principalities and the dominions will have bowed their knee before Jesus Christ, then the Son will reveal that it is not the first principle from which all things come, but his Son in whom we see the Father. This is how he submits and gives the kingdom to his Father. In revealing that his Father is the first principle of all things, he submits to him by declaring that he comes from him. Indeed, the advent of the Son of God is surrounded by so much majesty and splendor that all the powers and choirs of the angels could believe that he is the only God par excellence. Now, the Savior declaring that he is not the one who is called the Father, but his Son, while continuing to reign, hands the kingdom over to his Father. Here we see both submission and surrender of the kingdom, for when he declares that he comes from the Father, he declares by the same that all that he has also comes from the Father, bringing everything back to him…” – Ambrosiaster (Written c. 366 – c. 384, Reply to Question 26 in full, Commentary on the Gospel of Luke)
Source:
All Glory to God.
Peace to you
Eternal Fire – Is there a Bible Example that Anyone will Ever be Saved from it?
The Word “Eternal is more accurately singular-age-during aeonian or aionios fire” in Jude 1:7 (or Jude 7) toward “Sodom and Gomorrah” is equivalent to say the punishment of the wicked on Judgment Day phrase in Matthew 25:46.
The Bible Speaks of a Possible Greater Hope as follows, “Verses”:
“And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal [Aidios] bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal [Aeonian/Aionios] fire.” (Jude 1:7, NASB)
“Nevertheless, I will restore their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, and along with them your own captivity, in order that you may bear your humiliation and feel ashamed for all that you have done when you become a consolation to them. “Your sisters, Sodom with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, will return to their former state, and you with your daughters will also return to your former state.” – Prophet Ezekiel (Ezekiel 16:53 – 55, NASB)
Conclusion
iii) Did First Orthodox Christianity understand it in this way?
Yes ‘being Saved after the Punishment (of “Eternal/Age-during Fire”, implied), to quote:
“… even Sodom and Gomorrah, their punishment in history having satisfied the righteousness of God, shall ultimately be saved …” – Blessed St. Hilary of Poictiers, the “Athanasius of the West”, Doctor of the Church, The Champion of Trinity in the West (c. 310 AD – c. 368 AD, ‘The Theology of Hilary of Poictiers*’, Page 122)
*Author by THE REV. W. SAND AY, D.D., LL.D. LADY MARGARET PROFESSOR OF DIVINITY, AND CANON OF CHRIST CHURCH, OXFORD).
Source:
https://archive.org/stream/StHilaryOfPoitiersSelectWorks/StHilaryofPoitiersSelectWorks_djvu.txt
How reliable is he?
To quote:
“… Hilary is the pre-eminent Latin writer of the 4th century (before Ambrose). Augustine of Hippo called him “the illustrious doctor of the churches”, and his works continued to be highly influential in later centuries. Venantius Fortunatus wrote a vita of Hilary by 550, but few now consider it reliable. More trustworthy are the notices in Saint Jerome (De vir. illus. 100), Sulpicius Severus (Chron. ii. 39-45) and in Hilary’s own writings.[14]Pope Pius IX formally recognized him as Universae Ecclesiae Doctor in 1851…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilary_of_Poitiers
Please note carefully that even St. Augustine who believed in eternal hell (in a time after St. Hilary) did not condemn him but rather still praises his faith in Christ. So, believing likewise in Christ Centered Universalism is not liable to any condemnation at all as even St. Jerome of the Vulgate revealed more clearly St. Hilary’s Christ Centered Universalism in his infamous quote below from St. Hilary’s probably ‘lost content’ of his 11th Book Defending Trinity on Christ Centered Universalism Grounds as follows, to quote:
“… Your third and last question relates to the passage in the same epistle where the apostle in discussing the resurrection, comes to the words: “for he must reign, till he hath put all things under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him that God may be all in all.” [1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28] I am surprised that you have resolved to question me about this passage when that reverend man, Hilary, bishop of Poictiers, has occupied the eleventh book of his treatise against the Arians with a full examination and explanation of it. Yet I may at least say a few words. The chief stumbling-block in the passage is that the Son is said to be subject to the Father. Now which is the more shameful and humiliating, to be subject to the Father (often a mark of loving devotion as in the psalm “truly my soul is subject unto God”) or to be crucified and made the curse of the cross? For “cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree.” If Christ then for our sakes was made a curse that He might deliver us from the curse of the law, are you surprised that lie is also for our sakes subject to the Father to make us too subject to Him as He says in the gospel: “No man cometh unto the Father but by me,” and “I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will DRAW ALL men UNTO ME.” [John 12:32] Christ then is subject to the Father in the faithful; for ALL BELIEVERS, NAY the WHOLE HUMAN RACE, are accounted MEMBERS of HIS BODY. But in UNBELIEVERS, that is in JEWS, HEATHENS, and HERETICS, He is said to be NOT SUBJECT; for these members of His body are NOT SUBJECT to the FAITH. But in the END of the world when ALL HIS MEMBERS shall SEE CHRIST, that is their own body, reigning, THEY ALSO shall be MADE SUBJECT to Christ, that is to their own body, that the whole of Christ’s body may be subject unto God and the Father, and that God may be ALL in ALL [1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28]. He does not say “that the Father may be all in all” but that “God” may be, a title which properly belongs to the Trinity and may be referred not only to the Father but also to the Son and to the Holy Ghost. His meaning therefore is “that HUMANITY may be SUBJECT to the GODHEAD.” By HUMANITY we here intend not that gentleness and kindness which the Greeks call philanthropy but the WHOLE HUMAN RACE Moreover when he says “that God may be all in all,” it is to be taken in this sense. At present our Lord and Saviour is not all in all, but only a part in each of us. For instance He is wisdom in Solomon, generosity in David, patience in Job, knowledge of things to come in Daniel faith in Peter, zeal in Phinehas and Paul, virginity in John, and other virtues in others. But when the end of all things shall come, then shall He be all in all, for then the saints shall severally possess all the virtues and all will possess Christ in His entirety….” – St. Jerome of the Vulgate, Second Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 347 AD – c. 420 AD, Letter LV TO AMANDUS, Point 5, Written about the year 394 A. D.)
Source:
http://www.annussacerdotalis.org/clerus/dati/2001-02/17-999999/Lett.html
Note: Though St. Jerome of the Vulgate began to lean toward Eternal-Hell theology of St. Augustine from 395 AD onward, he clearly reveals in the letter above circa 394 AD, “honestly” (a content which probably is “lost” quoting from St. Hilary of Poictiers’ 11th Book regarding the Mystery of Christ Centered Universalism). Please note also that St. Hilary has been dead for almost “30 plus years” at the time St. Jerome writes this letter proving that St. Hilary is certainly a Christ Centered Universalism believer.
Peace to you
Least in the Kingdom of the Heavens – Not Enter His Kingdom?
Verses:
“21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:21 – 23, NKJV)
“19Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:19 – 20, NKJV)
“the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:46 NASB)
To understand these passages (as I cannot find a Commentary by say St. Amrbose of Milan or St. Hilary Poitiers), I’m going to quote a part of the Pseudo-Chrysostom collections which seem to explain it well. Before that please note that some of these “Pseudo-Chrysostom” manuscripts were sermons by heretics but the part I’m quoting is ‘in one of the official Catholic Bible Commentary’ as well as we can see below (so either this part could be in agreement of even the Theology at that time or was a true believer’s sermon mixed up with these):
“… The righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees are the commandments of Moses; but the commandments of Christ are the fulfilment of that Law. This then is His meaning; Whosoever in addition to the commandments of the Law shall not fulfil My commandments, shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. For those indeed save from the punishment due to transgressors of the Law, but do not bring into the kingdom; but My commandments both deliver from punishment, [p. 174] and bring into the kingdom. But seeing that to break the least commandments and not to keep them are one and the same, why does He say above of him that breaks the commandments, that “he shall be the least in the kingdom of heaven,” and here of him who keeps them not, that he “shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven?” See how to be the least in the kingdom is the same with not entering into the kingdom. For a man to be in the kingdom is not to reign with Christ, but only to be numbered among Christ’s people; what He says then of him that breaks the commandments is, that he shall indeed be reckoned among Christians, yet the least of them. but he who enters into the kingdom, becomes partaker of His kingdom with Christ. Therefore he who does not enter into the kingdom of heaven, shall not indeed have a part of Christ’s glory, yet shall he be in the kingdom of heaven, that is, in the number of those over whom Christ reigns as King of heaven…” – from a Pseudo-Chrysostom Manuscript (c. 4th – 5th Century)
Source:
Conclusion – What does it mean to ‘not enter the Kingdom of God?’
I believe it may mean as follows (all quotes are from the “Pseudo-Chrysostom Manuscript” above) :
Every non-Christian does not enter into His Kingdom.
“… The righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees are the commandments of Moses; but the commandments of Christ are the fulfilment of that Law. This then is His meaning; Whosoever in addition to the commandments of the Law shall not fulfil My commandments, shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. …” – Pseudo-Chrysostom Manuscript (c. 4th – 5th Century)
Only Christians Enter into His Kingdom.
“… For those indeed save from the punishment due to transgressors of the Law, but do not bring into the kingdom; but My commandments both deliver from punishment, [p. 174] and bring into the kingdom. …” – Pseudo-Chrysostom Manuscript (c. 4th – 5th Century)
iii. Do the Wicked and Fallen Believers share the Same Fate in the Final Judgment as per Luke 12:46?
Yes ‘both undergo the same equal sentence in the Lake of Fire (Gehenna)’:
“… But seeing that to break the least commandments and not to keep them are one and the same, why does He say above of him that breaks the commandments, that “he shall be the least in the kingdom of heaven,” and here of him who keeps them not, that he “shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven?” See how to be the least in the kingdom is the same with not entering into the kingdom….” – Pseudo-Chrysostom Manuscript (c. 4th – 5th Century)
“… For a man to be in the kingdom is not to reign with Christ, but only to be numbered among Christ’s people; what He says then of him that breaks the commandments is, that he shall indeed be reckoned among Christians, yet the least of them. but he who enters into the kingdom, becomes partaker of His kingdom with Christ. Therefore he who does not enter into the kingdom of heaven, shall not indeed have a part of Christ’s glory, yet shall he be in the kingdom of heaven, that is, in the number of those over whom Christ reigns as King of heaven…” – Pseudo-Chrysostom Manuscript (c. 4th – 5th Century)
Edifying Comments:
1) The phrases “For a man… only to be numbered among Christ’s people … indeed be reckoned among Christians, yet the least of them …” is certainly referring to a ‘man’ who is NOT considered as a Christian but is Saved after the Lake of Fire Judgment. Why can’t this refer to a Christian? Please read the comments next.
2) Every Christian is a Good Soil bearing either a ‘thirty, sixty or a hundred fold’ (Matthew 13:8) which earns their respective Mansion-Abode in the ‘Heavens, Paradise or the New Jerusalem City’ respectively (as expounded in First Christianity in St. Irenaeous of Lyons & Bishop Papias’ Writings) and thus each Christian will Indeed ‘enter into His Kingdom’.
So ‘no Christian’ (i.e. the Saved ones who do not undergo the Lake of Fire Judgment, John 5:24) can it refer to the Pseudo-Chrysostom’s phrases of “… [who] shall not indeed have a part of Christ’s glory…”. Indeed, ‘Every Christian’ will ‘Partake of Christ’s Glory according to his works/merit’. Even St. Clement of Alexandria’s quote agrees with this Mystery:
“… Conformably, therefore, there are various abodes, according to the worth of those who have believed… . These chosen abodes, which are three, are indicated by the numbers in the Gospel — the thirty, the sixty, the hundred. And the perfect inheritance belongs to those who attain to “a perfect man,” according to the image of the Lord. …” – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD, CHAPTER XIV, Stromata Book 6)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
3) The ‘Fallen Believers’ whom Christ Rejects as Stating that ‘He never knew them’ (Matthew 7:21 – 23) itself proves that these are not Considered to be His Bride (Christians) anymore and the Pseudo-Chrysostom thus refers to such ones together with the unbelievers (implied) to be in some ‘outer regions’ within the kingdom of the heavens (not heavens*) in some common meeting place areas being among Christians.
*The Kingdom of Heavens may thus be seen to include separate regions of the Heavens, Paradise, the New-Jerusalem-City and the ‘Outside the City Regions’ which it eventually Conquers in Christ.
4) Again the phrase “… the number of those over whom Christ reigns as King of heaven…” referring to those “… For a man to be in the kingdom is not to reign with Christ, but only to be numbered among Christ’s people; …” refers to the rest of Mankind who will clearly be Saved but be Least in His Kingdom.
Indeed, every Christian is a Co-Heir with Christ (Romans 8:17) and will Reign with Christ over them too (2 Timothy 2:12) as ‘kings & priests in His Imperishable Kingdom beginning with the next age’ (Revelation 5:10) and into the ‘Ages to Come’ (Ephesians 2:7) of whose Increase is Truly Eternal and has ‘no end’ (Luke 1:33).
5) Christ Spoke in Parables regarding the Topic of His Kingdom
“And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. … Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 13:10, 11, 13, NASB)
It is clear that the “Pseudo-Chrysostom Manuscript” reveals an understanding in First Christianity that ‘entering His Kingdom’ means ‘to Reign with Him and Share His Glory’ while ‘not entering His Kingdom refers to being Saved with a Basic Salvation and being Ruled Over being least in His Kingdom’.
6) Basic Salvation
So Judgment in Eternal Fire or Everlasting Punishment is clearly understood as an Eternal Loss of these Most Blessed things in His Kingdom. These Rejected ones may be Saved by God’s Mercy as Discussed in Earlier Posts with Basic Salvation only as even the Case of ‘Eternal Fire Judgment’ upon Sodom (Jude 1:7) Reveals to be Restored later by God (Ezekiel 16:53 – 55) as the Blessed St. Hilary of Poitiers also taught that God’s Salvation is Free to the extend that even ‘Sodom will ultimately be Saved’, now how much more if anyone was Baptized? To Quote:
“… Man has a natural proclivity to evil, an inherited weakness which has, as a matter of experience, betrayed ALL MEN into actual sin, with the exception of Christ . Elsewhere, however, Hilary recognises the possibility, under existing conditions, of a sinless life. For David could make the prayer, ‘Take from me the way of iniquity;’ of iniquity itself he was guiltless, and only needed to pray against the tendency inherent in his bodily nature . But such a case is altogether exceptional; ordinary men must confide in the thought that God is indulgent, for He knows our infirmity. He is propitiated by the wish to be righteous, and in His judgment the merits of good men outweigh their sins . Hence a prevalent tone of hopefulness about the future state of the baptized; EVEN SODOM and GOMORRAH, THEIR PUNISHMENT in history having satisfied the righteousness of God [Jude 1:7], shall ULTIMATELY BE SAVED. Yet God has a perfect, immutable goodness of which human goodness, though real, falls infinitely short, because He is steadfast and we are driven by varying impulses . This DIVINE GOODNESS is the STANDARD and the HOPE set before us. It can only be attained by GRACE, and GRACE is FREELY OFFERED. But just as the SOUL, being free, advances to meet sin, so it MUST ADVANCE to MEET GRACE…” – Blessed St. Hilary of Poictiers, the “Athanasius of the West”, Doctor of the Church, The Champion of Trinity in the West (c. 310 AD – c. 368 AD, ‘The Theology of Hilary of Poictiers*,Page 122)
* in the Book ‘Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 01 The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus To Ante Nicene Fathers Volume 10 Bibliographic Synopsis General Index’ by Schaff, Philip (1819-1893).
Source:
7) Sheepfold2 Mystery
In the quote below, St. Clement of Alexandria clearly distinguishes that the ‘Sheep of the other Fold’ whom Christ Referred to (in John 10:16) as being Different from those ‘Sheep’ who believe on earth now (Sheepfold1, Christians, implied in John 10:14 in Comparison) in that Sheepfold1 will translate from Glory to Glory (sounds like the ‘Seventh to Eighth Day Mystery’) and that Sheepfold2 only have ‘a proportioned faith’ (not full faith like Sheepfold1) who could be good non-Christians together with fallen-believers as they (Sheepfold2) feel the greatest remorse thereafter of not believing like Sheepfold1, to quote:
“… Such, according to David, “rest in the holy hill of God,” in the Church [Sheepfold1] far on high, in which are gathered the philosophers of God, “who are Israelites indeed, who are pure in heart, in whom there is no guile; ” who do not remain in the seventh seat, the place of rest, but are promoted, through the active beneficence of the divine likeness, to the heritage of beneficence which is the eighth grade; devoting themselves to the pure vision of insatiable contemplation. “And other sheep there are also,” saith the Lord, “which are not of this fold ” [John 10:16] — deemed worthy of another fold and mansion, in proportion to their faith [Sheepfold2]. “But My sheep hear My voice,” understanding gnostically the commandments. And this is to be taken in a magnanimous and worthy acceptation, along with also the recompense and accompaniment of works. So that when we hear, “Thy faith hath saved thee, we do not understand Him to say absolutely that those who have believed in any way whatever shall be saved, unless also works follow. But it was to the Jews alone that He spoke this utterance, who kept the law and lived blamelessly, who wanted only faith in the Lord. No one, then, can be a believer and at the same time be licentious; but though he quit the flesh, he must put off the passions, so as to be capable of reaching his own mansion. Now to know is more than to believe, as to be dignified with the highest honour after being saved is a greater thing than being saved. Accordingly the believer, through great discipline, divesting himself of the passions, passes to the mansion which is better than the former one, viz., to the greatest torment, taking with him the characteristic of repentance from the sins he has committed after baptism. He is tortured then still more — not yet or not quite attaining what he sees others to have acquired. Besides, he is also ashamed of his transgressions. The greatest torments, indeed, are assigned to the believer [Sheepfold2’s ‘fallen believers in Matthew 7:20 – 23?”]. For God’s righteousness is good, and His goodness is righteous. And though the punishments cease in the course of the completion of the expiation and purification of each one [Revelation 21:8, Revelation 22:17, 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15 “saved by fire, not forever”], yet those have very great and permanent grief who are found worthy of the other fold [John 10:16], on account of not being along with those [Sheepfold1] that have been glorified through righteousness….” – – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD, CHAPTER XIV, Stromata Book 6)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
[Emphasis Mine Throughout]
8) Mercy to All including His Enemies Eventually – Basic Salvation (‘Mercy Triumphs Over Judgment’ – James 2:13, Romans 11:32)
All Israel is the Classic Example or Pattern that ‘All Men’ will be Saved by Christ eventually (1 Timothy 2:4, 4:10) as God Promises to Save even the Enemies of the Gospel among the Israelite (which must include the ones who Blasphemed His Spirit & were Penalized eternally being excluded from being Sheepfold1 & Judgment endured for two ages, Matthew 12:31 – 32), as 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28 Prophesies too, right?
Says who? Please note ‘carefully’ that the Illustrious Saint below from First Christianity quotes Romans 11:32’s ‘Mercy to All’ to include ‘All His Enemies too’ (Romans 11:30 – 31) because the ‘Election of God toward these enemies as beloved’ cannot be Revoked (Romans 11:28) and so after these Enemies are Subjected by Christ Eventually (1 Corinthians 15:25), “life Immortal follows” to them (implied below), to quote:
“… When authorities and powers are abolished, His enemies shall be subjected under His feet. The same Apostle tells who are these enemies, As touching the Gospel they are enemies for your sakes, but as touching the election they are beloved for the fathers’ sake . We remember that they are enemies of the cross of Christ; let us remember also that, because they are beloved for the fathers’ sake, they are reserved for the subjection, as the Apostle says, I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, and so all Israel shall be saved, even as it is written, There shall come out of Sion a Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: and this is the covenant firm Me to them, when I have taken away their sins . So His enemies shall be subjected under His feet. But we must not forget what follows the subjection, namely, Last of all is death conquered by Him 1284 . This victory over death is nothing else than the resurrection from the dead: for when the corruption of death is stayed, the quickened and now heavenly nature is made eternal, as it is written, For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in strife. O death, where is thy sting? O death, where is thy strife ? In the subjection of His enemies death is conquered; and, death conquered, life immortal follows…” Blessed St. Hilary of Poictiers, the “Athanasius of the West”, Doctor of the Church, The Champion of Trinity in the West (c. 310 AD – c. 368 AD, Book XI ‘On the Trinity’, Points 34 – 35, Page 481**)
Source:
https://archive.org/stream/StHilaryOfPoitiersSelectWorks/StHilaryofPoitiersSelectWorks_djvu.txt
**Book Titled: ST. HILARY OF POITIERS – SELECT WORKS by THE REV. E. W. WATSON, M.A. WARDEN OF THE SOCIETY OF ST. ANDREW, SALISBURY, THE REV. L. PULLAN, M.A. FELLOW OF ST. JOHN’S COLLEGE, OXFORD, AND OTHERS.
Peace to you
Purgatorial Hell Universalism in Christ – Hades now or Gehenna later or Both?
I believe it’s Both. Please allow me to explain my position of faith before deeming me a heretic.
Looking at Verses such as Matthew 5:20 – 26, Luke 12:57 – 59, we find the phrase “you will never get out until you paid the last penny” by our Most Blessed Savior Lord Jesus Christ referring to an Afterlife Judgment Context. Even 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15 has the phrase “saved through fire” by the Blessed Apostle Paul which Speaks of Salvation post afterlife Judgment in Hell.
The problem is that many Christians view these Verses to refer to the Concept of Purgatory only where they limit it to refer to “Hades now” and to “certain Fallen Christians only”. Let’s Analyze their position more closely with both Holy Scripture and Traditions in First Christianity if it is so as follows:
Whenever say a Roman Catholic quote an ancient Saint saying that, we agree. But to see that it includes a hope for ‘not just the Christian Dead’, we may read it say in quote below:
“… Then we commemorate also those who have fallen asleep before us, first Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, Martyrs, that at their prayers and intercessions God would receive our petition. Then on behalf also of the Holy Fathers and Bishops who have fallen asleep before us, and in a word of all who in past years have fallen asleep among us, believing that it will be a very great benefit to the souls, for whom the supplication is put up, while that holy and most awful sacrifice is set forth. And I wish to persuade you by an illustration. For I know that many say, what is a soul profited, which departs from this world either with sins, or without sins, if it be commemorated in the prayer? For if a king were to banish certain who had given him of-fence, and then those who belong to them should weave a crown and offer it to him on behalf of those under punishment, would he not grant a remission of their penalties? In the same way we, when we offer to Him our supplications for those who have fallen asleep, though they be sinners, weave no crown, but offer up Christ sacrificed for our sins, propitiating our merciful God for them as well as for ourselves…” St. Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 23:9,10 (c. A.D. 350).
Source:
www.scripturecatholic.com/purgatory/amp/
Focus Phrase from the quote above Proving that Purgatory (Hades or Hell now) is not limited to ‘Christians only’ but ‘sinners too (non-Christians included, implied)’: “… In the same way we, when we offer to Him our supplications for those who have fallen asleep, though they be sinners, weave no crown, …”
Non-Christians are included because these dead (or ‘fallen asleep ones’) are those “though they be sinners, weave no crown” certainly includes them as non-Christians wear ‘no crown of faith’. Yes such a Prayer for the Dead is generally asserted in his quote to refer to the dead or ‘those who have fallen asleep’.
St. Augustine follows after Tertullian’s View that Purgatory is only for sins which can be forgiven before the Final Judgment Day as follows:
“… In short, inasmuch as we understand ‘the prison’ pointed out in the Gospel to be Hades, and as we also interpret ‘the uttermost farthing’ to mean the very smallest offence which has to be recompensed there before the resurrection, no one will hesitate to believe that the soul undergoes in Hades some compensatory discipline, without prejudice to the full process of the resurrection, when the recompense will be administered through the flesh besides…” Tertullian, A Treatise on the Soul, 58 (A.D. 210).
Source:
www.scripturecatholic.com/purgatory/amp/
It is Well known that Purgatory referring to both Hades (Hell now) or the Lake of Fire (Final Hell) toward any soul & not fallen believers only is believed by St. Gregory of Nyssa and we believe likewise, to quote:
“… When he has quitted his body and the difference between virtue and vice is known he cannot approach God till the purging fire shall have cleansed the stains with which his soul was infested. That same fire in others will cancel the corruption of matter, and the propensity to evil…” St. Gregory of Nyssa, ‘father of fathers’ Sermon on the Dead, PG 13:445,448 (ante A.D. 394).
Source:
www.scripturecatholic.com/purgatory/amp/
and
“… St. Gregory of Nyssa several times spoke of purgation by fire after death,[62] but he generally has apocatastasis* in mind.[63]…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory
*Christ Centered Universalism in applying Purgatorial Fire to both Hades now (for some) and in the Final Gehenna (or Lake of Fire later) to Save them by Fire (1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15).
Now, we can go on arguing by quoting early church leaders on this Topic but let’s now include Holy Scripture to see the Definitions in “full” which as I see proves both early church fathers quoted by the Catholics or how St. Gregory of Nyssa understood it (as we do also) as “Fuller” or Correct agreeing even to Swedenborg’s Visions of the Afterlife or more so in Sadhu Sundar Singh’s likewise too (reliable Empirical Visions Proof).
I believe that it is Both.
Who is right, St. Augustine of Hippo or St. Clement of Alexandria?
“The preexistent Christ proclaimed salvation through Noah to the people who lived before the flood (Epistolae 164).” – c. 400, St. Augustine wrote in Epistolae 164
or
“Christ went to hell in his spirit to proclaim the message of salvation to the souls of sinners who had been imprisoned there since the time of the flood” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c. AD 200) wrote in Stromateis 6:6
Source:
http://www.catholicforum.com/forums/showthread.php?38806-1-Peter-3-18-20-The-Spirits-in-Prison
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in PRISON; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.” – apostle Peter (1 Peter 3:18 – 20, KJV)
Focus Quote: “preached unto the spirits in PRISON” = Christ Preached in Hades being ‘Alive’ (or Quickened) in the Spirit not to the righteous but to the “unjust” as apostle Peter points to these ‘spirits’ from the time of Noah (destroyed by the Flood) who “sometime were disobedient” as the Verse says which clearly is NOT talking about the “obedient Noah & the eight Saved by Water”. This is what St. Clement of Alexandria exactly taught rightly as explained in a previous post.
My point?
The Preaching of the Gospel in Hades was not only for the Righteous but also for the Wicked or “unjust” spirits of the past but only after they underwent their ‘afterlife Judgment’ & were ‘not disobedient anymore’. So, this itself is proof that the Gospel was Preached to those once disobedient in Hades & the one who got the interpretation right above (St. Clement of Alexandria) in accordance to what is Written in 1 Peter 3:18 – 20 above Reveals that Christ’s Saving Power in Hades is not a one time event but is ‘always at work’ (especially toward some fallen Christians & non-Christian good as the Visions of Swedenborg or more accurate interpretations in the Spirit World Visions of the late Sadhu Sundar Singh clearly agree as discussed in previous posts):
“… “it is evident that those, too, who were outside of the Law, having lived rightly, in consequence of the peculiar’ nature of the voice, though they are in HADES and in ward, on hearing the voice of the Lord, whether that of His own person or that acting through His apostles, with all speed turned and believed. For we remember that the Lord is “the power of God,” and power can never be weak. So I think it is demonstrated that the God being good, and the Lord powerful, they save with a righteousness and equality which extend to ALL that TURN to Him, WHETHER HERE or ELSEWHERE. For it is not here alone that the active power of God is beforehand, but it is EVERYWHERE and is ALWAYS at WORK…” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c.150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 6, Chapter VI)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
This is not St. Clement of Alexandria’s opinion but Truth as even the ‘all endorsed St. Cyril of Alexandria’ declared likewise too, to quote:
“… The doctrine of the descent of Christ into Hades occupies an essential place in the works of Cyril of Alexandria. In his Paschal Homilies’, he repeatedly mentions that as a consequence of the descent of Christ into Hades, the devil was left all alone, while hell was devastated: ‘For having destroyed hell and opened the impassable gates for the departed spirits, He left the devil there abandoned and lonely’[19].In his ‘Festive Letters’, Cyril of Alexandria elaborates on the theme of the preaching of Christ in Hades, popular in the Alexandrian tradition since Clement. He views the preaching of Christ in hell as the accomplishment of the ‘history of salvation’, which began with the Incarnation:…He showed the way to salvation not only to us, but also to the spirits in hell; having descended, He preached to those once disobedient, as Peter says[20]…” – via ArchBishop Hilarion Alfeyev
Source for the Quote & Write Up above:
https://stjamesorthodox.org/files/articles/Bishop-Hilarion—Christ-the-Conqueror-of-Hades.pdf
Verse:
“21And it shall come to pass in that [Judgment] Day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 22And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the PRISON, and after many days shall they be VISITED.” (Isaiah 24:21 – 22, KJV)
Conclusion – Hope of Salvation from the Lake of Fire
So the “Prison” be it in Matthew 5:25 or Luke 12:58 refers both to ‘Hades (Hell now, in 1 Peter 3:18 – 19)’ and ‘Gehenna or the Final Lake of Fire (Hell later, in Isaiah 24:21 – 22, Matthew 5:22 too) where those cast into it may be there till their respective ‘last penny only’ (Matthew 5:26 or Luke 12:59) and not forever as these may be ‘Saved but through Fire’ (1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15). This is the Truest Interpretation endorsing both the current Roman Catholic view & extending it according to the Ancient Authority of Doctrine, Blessed ArchBishop St. Ambrose of Milan too Reveals in Agreement with these Same Holy Scripture (discussed next).
In his clear exposition below, the very one who converted, baptized & taught St. Augustine himself Reveals the First Ancient True Roman Catholicism as it existed before St. Augustine itself as teaching Luke 12 to refer to the Final lake of Fire Judgment (Luke 12:49) and the Salvation for the Wicked is only after they endure their ‘age-during’ (Aeonian Sentence, Matthew 25:46 as St. Ambrose quotes this Verse to whilst discussing the Context for these Verses) till the last penny (and not forever, Luke 12:46 – 48, Luke 12:57 – 59) of which Christ Himself Says is “Right” (Doctrine, Luke 12:57). After reading the quote below, you will realize how the later theologians have clearly diverted away from this True Ancient Teaching.
“… Here is the magistrate and the judge that shows you the one who showed the accuser; and it shows when He will be revealed: “In the day, is it said, where God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Rom., II, 16). This judge, therefore, is Jesus Christ, through whom are repeated secret faults and inflicted the punishment of evil deeds. You want to know that Christ is this judge who delivers to the executor and throws in prison? question him; or rather read what he says in the Gospel: “Take it and cast it into darkness outside” (Matt. xxxiii. 13, Matthew 25:30, Matthew 8:12). He also showed his executioners in another passage, where He says, “It will be the same at the end of time: the angels will come to separate the wicked from the righteous, and throw them into the blazing furnace. weeping and gnashing of teeth “(Matt, XIII, 49ffq). It remains to be seen now what the figure of the obole means. And it seems that the name of this familiar object expresses the mystery of a spiritual sense. Indeed, as one pays his debt by returning the money, and as the title to the interest is extinguished only when the whole amount of the capital is paid until the last denier, whatever the mode of payment, of it is by the compensation of charity and other works, or by some satisfaction, that the penalty of sin is extinguished. Nor is it without reason that he did not mention in this place, as elsewhere, two pieces of copper (Lc, XXI, 2), an ace (Matt., X, 29), nor a denier (Ib., XX, 2), but an obole; for the transfer of an obole29 is a kind of exchange, where one puts one thing in sign of the acquittal of another. Likewise here: either the wrong is redeemed at the price of charity, or the punishment diminished according to the appreciation of the wrong. Now it is the custom, as we remember, to give a bath to the baths: by presenting it, everyone obtains the faculty of bathing there; so, here, to be purified, because the sin of each is purified by the kind of transaction described above. On the other hand, the guilty person is tortured and tortured as long as he has not served the sentence of the error committed.” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:58 – 59)
Source:
https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/luke-commentary/ambrose-on-luke-12
Please notice the following:
iii. The Sin is diminished
St. Ambrose defined Luke 12:49 the same Way we did to refer to the Final Lake of Fire/Gehenna Judgment as the Final Baptism of Fire on that Day toward the Wicked or Fallen Believers too where the sin or the work of the flesh perish
“… I came to set the earth on fire, and what is my will, if not that finally it lights up? [Luke 12:49] I must be baptized with a baptism, and what is my torment as long as it is not accomplished! ” Higher up, He has kept us vigilant, waiting at all times for the coming of the Lord Savior, lest by slackening, by negligence, by differing from day to day his work, such, preceded by the day of the future judgment or by his own death, lose the reward of his management. It was addressed to all, in the form of a general precept; but the theme of the following comparison seems to be proposed to the bishops, that is to say, to the bishops, to let them know that they will have to undergo a severe punishment later, if, occupied with the pleasures of the century, they neglected to govern the house of the Lord and the people entrusted to them. But as the profit is thin, and the merit is low, when it is the fear of the punishment which prevents from going astray, since the charity and the love have a superior dignity, the Lord sharpens our zeal to deserve its favor and we are inflamed with the desire to acquire God, saying, “I have come to set fire to the earth,” not certainly the fire that consumes the goods, but the one that produces the good will, which makes the vases of and from the house of the Lord, consuming the hay and the straw (I Cor. iii. 12ff., 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15), devouring all the gangue of the age, amassed by worldly pleasure, the work of the flesh that is to perish;… They have thus taught with evidentness what is the action of this fire, which enlightens the intimate of the heart. For this reason perhaps the Lord will come into the fire (see Is., LXVI, 15; 16): to consume all the vices at the moment of the resurrection, to fill by his presence the desires of each one, and to project the light on merits and mysteries….” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:49 – 50)
Source:
https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/luke-commentary/ambrose-on-luke-12
Proof Phrase that this Refers to the Final Lake of Fire Judgment toward those Christians who are treated as Unbelievers (Luke 12:46) from the above by St. Ambrose himself: “… I came to set the earth on fire … preceded by the day of the future judgment or by his own death, lose the reward of his management. It was addressed to all… seems to be proposed to the bishops, that is to say, to the bishops, to let them know that they will have to undergo a severe punishment later, if, occupied with the pleasures of the century, they neglected to govern the house of the Lord and the people entrusted to them … I have come to set fire to the earth,” not certainly the fire that consumes the goods, but the one that produces the good will, which makes the vases of and from the house of the Lord, consuming the hay and the straw (I Cor. iii. 12ff., 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15), devouring all the gangue of the age, amassed by worldly pleasure, the work of the flesh that is to perish;…”.
Indeed, you can clearly see that St. Ambrose reveals that some Christian leaders or bishops are punished as unbelievers (Luke 12:46) in the Lake of Fire Context (hence the current purgatory is not enough) during the future Day of Judgment in a fire which produces ‘good will’ as he even quotes 1 Corinthians 3:12 implying that 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15 may be applied to mean Salvation from the Lake of Fire, yes “even so through fire” (1 Corinthians 3:15) toward such fallen-believers who are deemed equal to unbelievers who have ‘equal sentences’ (Luke 12:46) proving our Context Claim Right Again. Can you see it?
Regardless, the “wicked” are said to be in the lake of Fire only till the last penny (not forever but an Aeonian Sentence which is proportioned according to their sin) as St. Ambrose’s commentary on Verses 58 – 59 prior clearly prove as follows:
“… It will be the same at the end of time: the angels will come to separate the wicked from the righteous, and throw them into the blazing furnace … or the punishment diminished according to the appreciation of the wrong … so, here, to be purified, because the sin of each is purified by the kind of transaction described above. … On the other hand, the guilty person is tortured and tortured as long as he has not served the sentence of the error committed…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (Commentary on Luke 12:58 – 59, highlighted)
Christ Himself is the “Fire” through which they are Saved (1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15) as St. Ambrose Revealed above:
“… For this reason perhaps the Lord will come into the fire (see Is., LXVI, 15; 16): to consume all the vices at the moment of the resurrection, to fill by his presence the desires of each one, and to project the light on merits and mysteries….” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (Commentary on Luke 12:49, highlighted)
Strangely, the Commentary for Luke 12:46 – 48 is missing in the link above. Did St. Ambrose not write it or was it lost in history?
Bible Verses:
“For while you are going with your opponent to appear before the magistrate, on your way there make an effort to settle with him, so that he may not drag you before the judge, and the judge turn you over to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. “I say to you, you will not get out of there until you have paid the very last cent.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:58 – 59, NASB)
“…Likewise here: either the wrong is redeemed at the price of charity, or the punishment diminished according to the appreciation of the wrong. Now it is the custom, as we remember, to give a bath to the baths: by presenting it, everyone obtains the faculty of bathing there; so, here, to be purified, because the sin of each is purified by the kind of transaction described above. On the other hand, the guilty person is tortured and tortured as long as he has not served the sentence of the error committed…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:58 – 59, highlighted)
“…Likewise here: either the wrong is redeemed at the price of charity, … so, here, to be purified, because the sin of each is purified by the kind of transaction described above. …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:58 – 59, highlighted)
“…Likewise here: either … or the punishment diminished according to the appreciation of the wrong. … so, here, to be purified, because the sin of each is purified by the kind of transaction described above… the guilty person is tortured and tortured as long as he has not served the sentence of the error committed…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:58 – 59, highlighted)
Can you really see it ‘as It is Written’?
Yes, only the Sin Perishes (Meaning of ‘Eternal Destruction’, 2 Thessalonians 1:9 in Body + Soul Matthew 10:28) and not the sinner who is Saved through Fire in the End (1 Corinthians 3:15):
“… saying, “I have come to set fire to the earth,” [Luke 12:49] not certainly the fire that consumes the goods, but the one that produces the good will, which makes the vases of and from the house of the Lord, consuming the hay and the straw (I Cor. iii. 12ff., 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15), devouring all the gangue of the age, amassed by worldly pleasure, the work of the flesh that is to perish;… For this reason perhaps the Lord will come into the fire (see Is., LXVI, 15; 16): to consume all the vices at the moment of the resurrection, to fill by his presence the desires of each one, and to project the light on merits and mysteries…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:49 – 50, highlighted)
and
“… Likewise here: either the wrong is redeemed at the price of charity, or the punishment diminished according to the appreciation of the wrong. Now it is the custom, as we remember, to give a bath to the baths: by presenting it, everyone obtains the faculty of bathing there; so, here, to be purified, because the sin of each is purified by the kind of transaction described above. On the other hand, the guilty person is tortured and tortured as long as he has not served the sentence of the error committed…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:58 – 59, highlighted)
That is why our Most Blessed Saviour Himself Declared that all sins may be Forgiven within this ‘age (Aeon1)’ or by the next Age (Aeon2) in Matthew 12:31 – 32 except for the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit for which one must endure 2 full Aeons (Ages, Aeon1 & Aeon2) where they might be Forgiven in Age (Aeon3) onward as the phrase “ages to come” (future, in Ephesians 2:7) means this referring to “Aeon2, Aeon3, …” (Plural implying at least two future ages in the Plan of God excluding the current Aeon1).
This Concept of ‘Ages’ (Aeons) into the future (hence at least Aeon2, Aeon3 must exist, plural usage in Scripture implies this) is Biblical as this Concept is endorsed by both St. Irenaeous of Lyons and St. Ambrose of Milan too in quotes below:
” … But ALL THINGS which proceed from Him, WHATSOEVER have been MADE, and are made, do indeed receive their own beginning of generation, and on this account are INFERIOR to Him who formed them, inasmuch as they are not unbegotten. Nevertheless THEY ENDURE, and EXTEND their EXISTENCE into a LONG SERIES of AGES [Aeons, Aeon1, Aeon2, Aeon3, …] in accordance with the WILL of GOD their Creator; so that He GRANTS them that they should be thus formed at the beginning, and that they should so exist afterwards.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXXIV, Point 2)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html
or
“… we [True Christians] ourselves, when at the giving of thanks we pronounce the words, “To Aeons of Aeons” [Revelation 20:10] do set forth these Aeons. And, in fine, wherever the words Aeon or Aeons occur, they at once refer them to these beings.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Chapter III, Book I)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html
Comment: St. Irenaeous clearly refers to time as the “Aeon” (singular) and “Aeons” (Plural) in his last quote above & dispels the Gnostic Myth that these refer to some creatures (beings).
Yes, it’s not a figure of speech as some claim but a literal meaning whose definition extends into the future too as St. Irenaeous points above and is sealed as Truth by St. Ambrose below too from First Christianty, to quote:
8) Ages to Come in Ephesians 2:7 or Revelation 20:10 or in Matthew 12:31 – 32 or is the next Age (Olam/Aeon) eternal?
“… yet that I may satisfy thee on Scriptural grounds, learn that He made not only what is past, but also what is future, as it is written: “Who made things to come.” Elsewhere too Scripture says: “By whom also He made the ages, who is the brightness of His glory and the express Image of His Person.” Now the ages are past and present and future. How then were those made which are future, unless it is that His active power and knowledge contains within itself the number of all the ages? For just as He calls the things that are not as though they were, s so has He made things future as though they were. It cannot come to pass that they should not be. Those things which He has directed to be, necessarily will be. Therefore He who has made the things that are to be, knows them in the way in which they will be. If we are to believe this about the ages, much more must we believe it about the day of judgment, on the ground that the Son of God has knowledge of it, as being already made by Him. For it is written: “According to Thine ordinance the day will continue.” He did not merely say “the day continues,” but even “will continue,” so that the things which are to come might be governed by His ordinance. Does He not know what He ordered? “He who planted the ear, shall He not hear? He that formed the eye shall He not see?” …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 197 – 198 Chapter 4 Pages 730 – 731)
Source:
Four phrases from the above proving this Doctrine of the Ages (Aeons/Olams) to be True: “… By whom also He made the ages … Now the ages are past and present [Aeon1] and future [Aeon2, Aeon3, ….] … unless it is that His active power and knowledge contains within itself the number of all the ages … If we are to believe this about the ages…”
Note that the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit may not be forgiven in this present singular-age (AEON1) or until the future next-singular-age (AEON2) only and Ephesians 2:7 with St. Ambrose’s quote proves that there are “Ages [Plural] to Come” (AEON2, AEON3, … at least) where Forgiveness can be Attained in AEON3 as God Wills as per the Mystery of the Eighth Day (AEON3) which is after His Millennial Reign of the Coming Sabbath-Rest-of-the-Righteous-Seventh-Day (AEON2) as discussed in previous posts such as the one below (which agrees to St. Ambrose’s quote in Point 6 earlier emphasizing that this Blasphemy can be Forgiven eventually) :
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/amp
vii. Saved by Fire? Then why need Christ?
Firstly, Christ Himself is the Fire (Hebrews 12:29) and so such one are Saved by Christ.
An Additional Comment: Many Protestants may not feel comfortable with the phrase “… whatever the mode of payment, of it is by the compensation of charity and other works, or by some satisfaction, that the penalty of sin is extinguished…” as they claim that it Makes Void the Work of Christ.
Please notice that the Work of Christ is toward the ‘Making Alive’ which applies to All Men eventually (1 Corinthians 15:20 – 23) but the afterlife Judgment part is excluded for Christians (John 5:24) because they are already Baptized with His Holy Spirit on Earth itself Who Consumes all sin and Vanity (Hebrews 12;8) and hence the Rest of Mankind are Baptized in His Fire (Mark 9:49, Hebrews 12:29) either in Hades or Lake of Fire which is more painful but may be Saved thereafter in the End (1 Corinthians 3:15).
So, the idea of Judgment can be ‘Cancelled or Reduced’ according to ‘one’s own charity works [alms] done in life’ (2 Maccabees 12:43*, see St. Polycarp’s quote below) or by the prayers of the righteous for the dead (2 Timothy 1:18, 2 Maccabees 12:42 – 46) is certainly Biblical as it is Mentioned briefly by the Apostolic Father below too, to quote:
“…When you can do good, defer it not, because “alms delivers from death.” …” – St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smryna, an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of the Blessed St. John the Apostle (c. 69 AD – c. 155 A, Chapter X, Epistle to the Philippians)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/polycarp-roberts.html
*Here are the 2 Maccabees Verses and a brief explanation:
“41All men therefore praising the Lord, the righteous Judge, who had opened the things that were hid, 42Betook themselves unto prayer, and besought him that the sin committed might wholly be put out of remembrance. Besides, that noble Judas [Maccabees] exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forsomuch as they saw before their eyes the things that came to pass for the sins of those that were slain. 43And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachms of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: 44For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead. 45And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.” (2 Maccabees 12:41 – 45, the Original King James Bible)
Source:
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/2-Maccabees-Chapter-12/
The noble Judas Maccabees was certainly a prophet of God to the Jews and the Book above (1 & 2 Maccabees only) is Considered Canonical in First Christianity till even when the First King James Bible was translated (about a hundred years before the birth of Martin Luther himself), to quote:
“Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox regard 2 Maccabees as canonical. Jews and all Protestants other than Anglo-Catholics do not… a biblical canon identical with the list given at Trent including the two books of Maccabees. Origen of Alexandria (A.D. 253),[17] Augustine of Hippo (c. 397 AD),[18] Pope Innocent I (405 AD),[19][20] Synod of Hippo (393 AD),[21] the Council of Carthage (397 AD),[22] the Council of Carthage (419 AD),[23] the Apostolic Canons,[24] the Council of Florence (1442 AD)[25] and the Council of Trent (1546 AD)[26] listed the first two books of Maccabees as canonical…”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Maccabees
Martin Luther should not have ‘removed’ Books from the First King James Bible Translation or that which has been endorsed by all Christians for Centuries just because he cannot understand the Books’ Content or simply because it doesn’t line up with some of his own ‘pre-conceived theology’ as this may be very dangerous for him especially since he even denied the existence of the spirit world (denying even the literal meaning of Luke 16:19 – 31 to refer to Hades/Sheol now) & in turn proposed the ‘false soul sleep doctrine with William Tyndale’ which was later Corrected/Refuted by John Calvin in the Protestant Camp itself.
Now, the Verses in 2 Maccabees 12:43 prove that ‘alms giving helps deliver from death’ as St. Polycarp endorsed too as it was expounded by St. Ambrose prior too. It is not that one is paying for the sin with money (as some theologians err using this Verse) but rather that the person who prays for the dead’s salvation (2 Maccabees 12:42, 44 45) must first give alms (2 Maccabees 12:43) so that ‘he becomes worthy to pray’ as St. Ambrose pointed out (in an earlier post) that only a ‘very holy or worthy close friend of God’ can pray for the dead as God might hear them & not others simply because they obeyed His Commandments, to quote:
“… But you Say, It is written: “If a man sin against the Lord, who shall entreat for him?” First of all, as I already said before, I might allow you to make that objection if you refused penance to those only who denied the faith. But what difficulty does that question produce? For it is not written, “No one shall entreat for him;” but, “Who shall entreat?” that is to say, the question is, Who in such a case can entreat? The entreaty is not excluded… We must then understand in the same manner, “Who shall entreat for him?” as implying: It must be some one of excellent life who shall entreat for him who has sinned against the Lord. The greater the sin, the more worthy must be the prayers that are sought. For it was not any one of the common people who prayed for the Jewish people, but Moses, when forgetful of their covenant they worshipped the head of the calf. Was Moses wrong? Certainly he was not wrong in praying, who both merited
and obtained that for which he asked. For what should such love not obtain as that of his when he offered himself for the people and said: “And now, if Thou wilt forgive their sin, forgive; but if not, blot me out of the book of life.” We see that he does not think of himself, like a man full of fancies and scruples, whether he may incur the risk of some offense, as Novatian says he dreads that he might, but rather, thinking of all and forgetful of himself, he was not afraid test he should offend, so that he
might rescue and free the people from danger of offense. …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 40, 42, Chapter 9 Pages 786 – 787, Book I Concerning Repentance)
Source:
viii. Hope for those who Blasphemed against the Holy Spirit too (Matthew 12:31 – 32)?
Last but not least, please note carefully that St. Ambrose is discussing the forgiveness toward the ‘Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit’ eventually in his discourse above where he reveals that Pardon type of ‘Forgiveness of sins in repentance’ is different from Repentance now on earth to become His Church (Christians) where the former will be granted to them after Judgment but the latter not, to quote:
“… St. John did not absolutely forbid that prayer should be made for those who “sin unto death,” since he knew that Moses, Jeremiah, and Stephen had so prayed, and he himself implies that forgiveness is not to be denied them. Such intercessors, then, must be sought for after very grievous sins, for if any ordinary persons pray they are not heard. So that point of yours will have no weight, which you take from the Epistle of John, where he says: “He who knows that his brother sinneth a sin not unto death, let him ask, and God will give him life, because he sinned not unto death. There is a sin unto death: not concerning it do I say, let him ask.” He was not speaking to Moses and Jeremiah, but to the people, who must seek another intercessor for their sins; the people, for whom it is sufficient they entreat God for their lighter faults, and consider that pardon for weightier sins must be reserved for the prayers of the just. For how could John say that graver sins should not be prayed for, when he had read that Moses prayed and obtained his request, where there had been willful casting off of faith, and knew that Jeremiah also had entreated? …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 43 – 45, Chapter 10 Pages 788, Book I Concerning Repentance)
Source:
Yes, St. Ambrose Declares the this Sin can be Forgiven post Judgment as he quotes the example of Simon to have committed this sin first (Acts 8:17 – 24), in his own words below, to quote:
“… But we have heard that you are accustomed to bring forward as an objection that which is written: “Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men, but blasphemies against the Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him, but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world [age], nor in that which is to
come.” [Matthew 12:31 – 32] By which quotation the whole of your assertion is destroyed and done away, for it is written: “Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men.” Why, then, do you not remit them? Why do you bind chains which you do not loose? Why do you tie knots which you do not unfasten? Forgive the others, and deal with those who you think are bound for ever by the authority of the Gospel for sinning against the Holy Spirit… Then, when Simon, depraved by long practice of magic, had thought he could gain by money the power of conferring the grace of Christ and the infusion of the Holy Spirit, Peter said: “Thou hast neither part nor lot in this faith, for thy heart is not right with God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray the Lord, if per-chance this thought of thy heart may be forgiven thee, for I see that thou art in the bond of iniquity and in the bitterness of gall.” [Acts 8:22 – 23] We see that Peter by his apostolic authority condemns him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit through magic vanity, and all the more because he had not the clear consciousness of faith. And yet he did not exclude him from the hope of forgiveness, for he called him to repentance [Acts 8:22, 24]… – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 20, 23 , Chapter 4 Pages 815, Book II Concerning Repentance)
Source:
Comment: What if the Word Aeon for the next age (Aeon2) means Eternal & that ‘ages to come’ is just idiomatic, and so this must be an Eternal Sin with no forgiveness, right (Matthew 12:31 – 32, Mark 3:29, Luke 12:10)?
Indeed, but please notice how St. Ambrose explains above in his own words above that:
1) The ‘Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit’ is not forgiven eternally in the sense that for such persons
” … Thou hast neither part nor lot in this faith ….” – the Blessed Apostle Peter quoted by ArchBishop St. Ambrose of Milan (highlighted)
That is, such ones cannot ever become His Bride in Participating in the First Resurrection & the Highest Rewards of the Heavens, Revelation 20:4 – 6, Matthew 5:20 – 23) as the phrase “… neither part nor lot in this faith…” eternally shuts them out of this hope (1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18).
2) However a Hope of Forgiveness still remains
Because in the same breath St. Ambrose reminds them that apostle Peter himself reveals the Mystery that such ones may be forgiven (implying a General Salvation eventually) , in his words above as follows:
“… Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray the Lord, if per-chance this thought of thy heart may be forgiven thee, for I see that thou art in the bond of iniquity and in the bitterness of gall.” [Acts 8:22 – 23]…”
and
“… We see that Peter by his apostolic authority condemns him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit … And yet he did not exclude him from the hope of forgiveness, for he called him to repentance…” [Acts 8:22, 24]
One final point, please consider the Verse:
“Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.” – the Blessed Apostle Peter to Simon (Acts of the Apostles 8:22, NASB)
Please notice carefully that the phrase ‘… pray the Lord that, if possible, … may be forgiven you…’ strongly points that St. Ambrose is right in pointing out that this is a Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (example) which Simon has Committed as if it was any other sins, apostle Peter would not have said “if possible”.
So, is Blessed ArchBishop St. Ambrose of Milan going to Hell for Preaching like this or is he Revealing Deep Ancient Doctrinal Truths Accurately which we have missed greatly?
We believe Likewise as St. Ambrose of Milan that the Lake of Fire is not Eternal but only till the Last Penny only as Lord Jesus Christ Himself Declared.
Peace to you
Lake of Fire – One Last Chance on Judgment Day with the Ancient of Days
“I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire. A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened.” – Prophet Daniel (Daniel 7:9 – 10, NASB)
A Bible Verse which Speak of His Mercy which Triumphs over Judgment (James 2:13) toward “All” eventually (Romans 11:32, 1 Timothy 2:6) in the Context of the Final Lake of Fire Judgment:
Reconciliation from the Lake of Fire toward the “thirsty” or wicked ones freely (Revelation 22:17). Yes, toward “All Created things” too (Colossians 1:16, 20).
Please note that the Reason these Wicked ones (both the Devils and evil human kings) will be VISITED (accurate translation) in Verse below which Describes ‘Judgment Day in the Lake of Fire Punishment Context’ is because to see their repentance and change permanently as the Book of Enoch reveals further (discussed next):
“21And it shall come to pass in that [Judgment] Day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 22And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be VISITED.” (Isaiah 24:21 – 22, KJV)
This is both the First Christianity and First Jewish Understanding of Holy Scripture, to quote from the infamous Book of Enoch:
1) Fallen Angels – Lake of Fire for Healing Later too
“And through its valleys proceed streams of fire, where these angels are punished who had led astray those who dwell upon the earth. 8 But those waters shall in those days serve for the kings and the mighty and the exalted, and those who dwell on the earth, for the healing of the body, but for the punishment of the spirit; now their spirit is full of lust, that they may be punished in their body, for they have denied the Lord of Spirits 9 and see their punishment daily, and yet believe not in His name. And in proportion as the burning of their bodies becomes severe, a corresponding change shall take place in their spirit for ever and ever; 10 for before the Lord of Spirits none shall utter an idle word. For the judgement shall come upon them, 11 because they believe in the lust of their body and deny the Spirit of the Lord. And those same waters will undergo a change in those days; for when those angels are punished in these waters, these water-springs shall change their temperature, and when the angels ascend, this water of the 12 springs shall change and become cold. And I heard Michael answering and saying: ‘ This judgement wherewith the angels are judged is a testimony for the kings and the mighty who possess the 13 earth.’ Because these waters of judgement minister to the healing of the body of the kings and the lust of their body; therefore they will not see and will not believe that those waters will change and become a fire which burns for ever.” (Book of Enoch, Chapter 67)
Translation Source:
http://wesley.nnu.edu/index.php?id=2126
Please note that the last word translated as “for ever” is more accurately “age-during or to the age”. However, even if (for arguments’ sake) this means forever, we know that God can ‘Cancel’ this ‘forever sentence’ by His Mercy which Triumphs over and Ends any afterlife Judgment Sentence as James 2:13-NASB Reveals Majestically.
Is this proper Exegesis?
Yes, please consider these quotes from the Book of Enoch above ‘carefully’
“And through its valleys proceed streams of fire, where these angels are punished who had led astray those who dwell upon the earth”
“But those waters shall in those days serve for the kings and the mighty and the exalted, and those who dwell on the earth, for the healing of the body, but for the punishment of the spirit; now their spirit is full of lust, that they may be punished in their body, for they have denied the Lord of Spirits 9 and see their punishment daily, and yet believe not in His name.”
iii. Saved in spirit Context – Change will occur from Evil turned to Good (in Principle relating to 1 Corinthians 5:5, 1 Peter 4:6 too)
“And in proportion as the burning of their bodies becomes severe, a corresponding change shall take place in their spirit for ever and ever; 10 for before the Lord of Spirits none shall utter an idle word.”
Retributive part: “for when those angels are punished in these waters, these water-springs shall change their temperature, and when the angels ascend, this water of the 12 springs shall change and become cold.”
Purifying part: “And I heard Michael answering and saying: ‘ This judgement wherewith the angels are judged is a testimony for the kings and the mighty who possess the 13 earth.’ Because these waters of judgement minister to the healing of the body of the kings and the lust of their body;”
“therefore they will not see and will not believe that those waters will change and become a fire which burns for ever [age/aeon/olam]”
Can you see it even toward the Context of both ‘fallen angels & wicked men’ as Described above?
2) Wicked Men – Lake of Fire for Healing Later
“1 And in those days a change shall take place for the holy and elect, And the light of days shall abide upon them, And glory and honour shall turn to the holy,
2 On the day of affliction on which evil shall have been treasured up against the sinners.
And the righteous shall be victorious in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
And He will cause the others to witness (this) That they may repent And forgo the works of their hands. 3 They shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits, Yet through His name shall they be saved, And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them, For His compassion is great.
4 And He is righteous also in His judgement, And in the presence of His glory unrighteousness also shall not maintain itself: At His judgement the unrepentant shall perish before Him. 5 And from henceforth I will have no mercy on them, saith the Lord of Spirits.” (Book of Enoch, Chapter 50)
Translation Source:
http://wesley.nnu.edu/index.php?id=2126
As Verse 5 above goes, God will not have Mercy anymore from the time of this Lake of Fire onward “if the wicked don’t repent during this final Judgment in the Lake of Fire” (Context of quote above – Conditional).
We know that ‘all the wicked men will eventually repent’ in the Lake of Fire from this First Orthodox teaching below and hence with the Book of Enoch quote above it’s certain that, all the wicked will finally be saved from this Lake of Fire as stated above.
“By Ezekiel the prophet it was said: “Joint shall be joined to joint, and bone to bone, and flesh shall grow again; and every knee shall bow to the Lord, and every tongue shall confess Him.” And in what kind of sensation and punishment the wicked are to be, hear from what was said in like manner with reference to this; it is as follows: “Their worm shall not rest, and their fire shall not be quenched;” and then shall they repent, when it profits them not.” (Justin Martyr, CHAPTER LII — CERTAIN FULFILMENT OF PROPHECY, First Apology)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html
Yes, please consider carefully:
“… Their worm shall not rest, and their fire shall not be quenched;” and then shall they [the Wicked in the Lake of Fire] repent, when it profits them not.” – St. Justin Martyr
It means that though these “others” (Context: ‘non-righteous’) repent in the Lake of Fire, they will be “saved” (1 Timothy 2:4, 4:10) but have “no honour” (i. e. ‘no inheritance in His Kingdom’, 1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10), toward these Law Breakers (Matthew 5:19) in the Context of ‘All Law (Torah) and Prophets’ (Matthew 5:17 – 18), to quote this highlight from the above:
“And He will cause the others [Wicked, Evil ones] to witness (this reward & glorification of the righteous on Judgment Day) That they may repent And forgo the works of their hands. They [the “others” or wicked in the Lake of Fire] shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits, Yet through His name shall they be saved, And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them, For His compassion is great.” – Book of Enoch
Conclusion
“For by Him ALL THINGS were CREATED, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. and through Him to RECONCILE ALL [created] THINGS to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.” – apostle Paul (Colossians 1:16, 20, NASB)
[Emphasis Mine throughout in Brackets]
“We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.” – apostle John (1 John 4:14, NASB)
Universal Restoration in the Book of Enoch – are the Wicked Finally Saved?
It is Possible as the Discussion above is Wisely Set forth as the Enoch-Verses Hint to it especially since the ‘Lake of Fire’ turns both as ‘Fire & Water’ respectively according when it is ‘Destroying Sin & Healing’ respectively in the ‘Body + Soul’ (Matthew 10:28) as this Secret is Revealed in the Mysterious Book of Enoch which has not just been used by the ‘Early Church Fathers’ but also Jewish Leaders & the authors of other ancient Christian Writings such as the ‘Book of Jubilee’ & the ‘Testament of the Twelve Apostles’ even being considered Canonical in the ‘Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church ‘ (see Wiki Quote next) which also considered the ‘Epistle of the Apostle’ Writing as Canonical too from ancient times whose Coptic Version Mentions that Christ may Save the Wicked from the Lake of Fire if the righteous pray for it as discussed somewhere in post below earlier::
Is the Book of Enoch Reliable?
To quote:
“Various Aramaic fragments found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, as well as Koine Greek and Latin fragments was proof that The Book of Enoch was known by early Jews and Christians. This book was also quoted by some 1st and 2nd century authors as in the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs. Authors of the New Testament were also familiar with some content of the story.[5] A short section of 1 Enoch (1:9) is cited in the New Testament, Epistle of Jude, Jude 1:14–15, and is attributed there to “Enoch the Seventh from Adam” (1 En 60:8), although this section of 1 Enoch is a midrash on Deuteronomy 33:2. Several copies of the earlier sections of 1 Enoch were preserved among the Dead Sea Scrolls.[3] It is not part of the biblical canon used by Jews, apart from Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews). Most Christian denominations and traditions may accept the Books of Enoch as having some historical or theological interest and while the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church consider the Books of Enoch as canonical, other Christian groups are regard them as non-canonical or non-inspired.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch
Peace to you
P/S: The Watchers knew “Worthless Secrets’ & Judgment is to the ‘Age’ (Olam/Aeon) Quote
“… the great judgement in which the age shall be 2 consummated, over the Watchers and the godless, yea, shall be wholly consummated.” And now as to the watchers who have sent thee to intercede for them, who had been aforetime in heaven, (say 3 to them): “You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth.” 4 Say to them therefore: ” You have no peace.”‘ (Book of Enoch, Chapter 16)
Same Source:
http://wesley.nnu.edu/index.php?id=2126
Comment:
An recent Orthodox Christian remarked: ‘ You cannot demand God to Save everyone eventually. This is a wrong attitude. ‘
Reply: ‘We are not demanding anything but begging God to Save all men even from the Lake of Fire as such a request is not prohibited in Holy Scripture at all especially since we don’t want to see even our enemies put to Death eternally in fire even justly.
Indeed, please consider the quote below from a Well Respected ancient Christian Saint who clearly reveals that even a ‘Just-Death of the Wicked on earth’ a Christian cannot bear, now how much more an ‘Eternal-Just-Death’ of a Wicked (implied)? To quote:
“… For when they know that we cannot endure even to see a man put to death, though justly; …” – St. Athenagoras of Athens (c. 133 AD – c. 190 AD, CHAP. XXXV, ‘Plea toward Christians’)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/athenagoras-plea.html
Where regarding the ‘Broad Way that leads to Destruction which many men may follow versus the few men who find life in this life itself’ (Matthew 7:13 – 14), again St. Athenagoras of Athens reveals that this does not remove the Hope of ‘Common Lot’ (referring to the General/Basic Salvation) from the Lake of Fire too toward such thirsty ones at that time as both the Spirit (God) and Bride (Christians, Church) call out to them to take the ‘Water of Life Freely’ as Revelation 22:17 Reveals Beautifully agreeing Perfectly to his quote at the end of his book below:
“… But that the same soul should obtain the same body is impossible in any other way, and possible only by the resurrection; for if this takes place, an end befitting the nature of men follows also. And we shall make no mistake in saying, that the final cause of an intelligent life and rational judgment, is to be occupied uninterruptedly with those objects to which the natural reason is chiefly and primaily adapted, and to delight unceasingly in the contemplation of Him who is, and of His decrees, notwithstanding that the majority of men, because they are affected too passionately and too violently by things below, pass through life without attaining this object. For the large number of those who fail of the end that belongs to them does not make void the common lot, since the examination relates to individuals, and the reward or punishment of lives ill or well spent is proportioned to the merit of each…” – St. Athenagoras of Athens (c. 133 AD – c. 190 AD, CHAP. XXXV, ‘Plea toward Christians’)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/athenagoras-resurrection.html
In fact, apostle Paul himself was willing to allow himself to be ‘anathema’ (eternally condemned for the sake of his unsaved brethren) whilst under the Inspiration of His Holy Spirit revealing that such an attitude is Biblical:
“For I could wish that I myself were accursed [Greek:Anathema], separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh,” – apostle Paul (Romans 9:3, NASB)
Is apostle Paul Choosing his unsaved-brethren above Christ as seems to wish it above?
Also please note that the ‘anathema’ above is referring to the ‘eternal fire’ context (e.g. Matthew 25:46 or 2 Thessalonians 1:9) whose names are ‘not in the Book of Life’ (Revelation 20:11 – 15) of which ‘no righteous persons even Noah, Job, … cannot request a ‘resurrection’ for them during the Hallowed Seventh Day or 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ’ (as Revelation 20:4 – 6 & Revelation 20:11 – 15 points) as St. Clement of Rome & St. Justin Martyr have wrote. St. Irenaeous mentions below (interestingly) agreeing to the Original Verse in Isaiah & St. Justin Martyr’s Writings (quoted below) that eventually only the ‘dead member of the bodies, carcasses’ (with no soul/spirit) remains burning in the unquenchable fire, to quote (Can you see it?) where their ‘souls or more accurately spirits’ may be in some ‘Intermediate Place’ (probably refers to the ‘Common Lot’ or ‘General Salvation’ area awaiting their Second Resurrection after the 1000 years are over as Revelation 20:5 hints & Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan has expounded as explained in a Previous Post):
“… But we will NOT receive it of all YOUR NATION; since we know from Isaiah that the MEMBERS of THOSE who have TRANSGRESSED shall be consumed by the WORM and UNQUENCHABLE FIRE, remaining IMMORTAL; so that they become a spectacle to ALL FLESH. … has shown that THOSE who were SELECTED out of every NATION have OBEYED His will through Christ,–whom He CALLS ALSO Jacob, and names Israel,–… He allots the SAME INHERITANCE to them, and does not call them by the same name; but when He says that they as GENTILES rejoice with His people, … WORTHY of knowing His will, and of inheriting His inheritance.” – St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 Ad – 160 AD, CHAPTER CXXX, DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
So, on the Seventh Day at the end of this Age, these requests for their salvation thus cannot be granted. The dead bodies or carcasses being burnt proves that these cannot be resurrected or be healed during this time during Judgment but their soul/spirit will dwell in its appropriate abode, to quote:
“… … For the intellect of man-his mind, thought, mental intention, and such like-is nothing else than his soul; but the emotions and operations of the soul itself have no substance apart from the soul. What part of them, then, will still remain to enter into the Pleroma? For they themselves, in as far as they are souls, remain in the intermediate place; while, in as far as they are body, they will be consumed with the rest of matter …” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html
Hope for their resurrection in purity or healing to those limbs or just saved in the ‘spirit state only’ (1 Corinthians 5:5, 1 Peter 4:5 – 6) is renewed on the Eighth Day which is Described next.
iii. The Best of Saints will Ask the Most Blessed Lord for the Salvation of the Wicked Finally & it may be Granted
So, why would apostle Paul be willing to go to an eternal Hell unless he is expressing the Unconditional/Unfailing Love of God (Agape, 1 Corinthians 13) which never fails nor keeps a record of wrongs to Finally Prevail that these may be Forgiven by Mercy which Triumphs over & ends the Judgment eventually (James 2:13) as it is Promised to all the disobedient too (Romans 11:32) as Prophesied in the Epistle of the Apostles, Apocalypse of Peter, Sibyline Oracles as well that God Answers the Prayers of the Righteous ‘to save these from the Lake of Fire’ & place them at ‘another [lower] place’ thereafter?
This Attitude is what is NOT Blasphemy NOR can it be condemned in a Christian who asks for it as the Verse above (Romans 9:3) Declares, right?
However, I cannot request for it being a terrible sinner but certain righteous person can ask for a Salvation in thus manner in the Context of the Book of Life as the ‘Attitude of Moses’ himself demonstrates below, to quote:
“…We must then understand in the same manner, “Who shall entreat for him?” as implying: It must be some one of excellent life who shall entreat for him who has sinned against the Lord. The greater the sin, the more worthy must be the prayers that are sought. For it was not any one of the common people who prayed for the Jewish people, but Moses, when forgetful of their covenant they worshipped the head of the calf. Was Moses wrong? Certainly he was not wrong in praying, who both merited and obtained that for which he asked. For what should such love not obtain as that of his when he offered himself for the people and said: “And now, if Thou wilt forgive their sin, forgive; but if not, blot me out of the book of life.” We see that he does not think of himself, like a man full of fancies and scruples, whether he may incur the risk of some offense, as Novatian says he dreads that he might, but rather, thinking of all and forgetful of himself, he was not afraid test he should offend, so that he might rescue and free the people from danger of offense. Rightly, then, is it said: “Who shall entreat for him?” It implies that it must be such an one as Moses to offer himself for those who sin, or such as Jeremiah, who, though the Lord said to him, “Pray not thou for this people,” and yet he prayed and obtained their forgiveness. For at the intercession of the prophet, and the entreaty of so great a seer, the Lord was moved and said to Jerusalem, which had meanwhile repented for its sins, and had said: “O Almighty Lord God of Israel, the soul in anguish, and the troubled spirit crieth unto Thee, hear, O Lord, and have mercy.” And the Lord bids them lay aside the garments of mourning, and to cease the groanings of repentance, saying: “Put off, O Jerusalem, the garment of thy mourning and affliction, and clothe thyself in beauty, the glory which God hath given thee for ever.” ” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 42, Chapter 9, Book I, Concerning Repentance, Page 787)
Please read the ‘last lines carefully’ as St. Ambrose of Milan reveals that sometimes God asked His Saints ‘not to pray for it’ because if they do, they get it as the case of Prophet Jeremiah and Prophet Moses proves where Patriarch Moses is very Bold in rejecting ‘eternal life’ unless he ‘gets the forgiveness of the wicked ones’, as he claimed ‘…”But now, if You will, forgive their sin– and if not, please blot me out from Your Book [of Life] which You have written!”…’ (Exodus 32:32, NASB). Yes, St. Amvbrose clearly points that the ‘Book’ mentioned in this Verse refers to the ‘Lamb’s Book of Life’ (Revelation 20:11 – 15) in his quotes above.
So, these Ancient First Christianity Prophesies may thus Come to Pass at the Request of God’s Closest Saints when they finally Pray MANY TIMES for the Wicked too to be Saved from the Lake of Fire (1 Timothy 2:1) that ‘All Men may be Saved’ (1 Timothy 2:4 – KJV) as He is the Most Blessed ‘Saviour of All Men, especially those who believe’ (1 Timothy 4:10), to quote:
i.1. Purgatory for Backslidden Christians
“.. 8And I also saw some blind ones crying out. And I was amazed when I saw all these works of God. 9I said, “Who are these?” He said unto me, “These are catechumens who heard the word of God, but they were not perfected in the work which they heard.” 10And I said unto him, “Then have they not repentance here?” He said, “Yes,” 11I said, “How long?” He said unto me, “Until the day when the Lord will judge.” 12And I saw others with their hair on them. 13I said, “Then there is hair and body in this place?” 14He said, “Yes, the Lord gives body and hair to them as he desires.”…” – Apocalypse of Zephaniah (aft 100 B.C. & bef A.D. 70)
i.2. Prayer of Salvation toward the non-Christian damned
The intercession of the saints for those in torment.
“… 111And I also saw multitudes. He brought them forth. 2As they looked at all of the torments they called out, praying before the Lord Almighty, saying, “We pray unto Thee on account of those who are in all these torments so that Thou might have mercy on all of them.” 3And when I saw them, I said to the angel who spoke with me, “<Who are these?>” 4He said, “These who beseech the Lord are Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. 5Then at a certain hour daily they come forth with the great angel. He soundeth a trumpet up unto heaven and another soundeth upon the earth. 6All the righteous hear the sound. They come running, praying to the Lord Almighty daily on behalf of these who are in all these torments.”…” – Apocalypse of Zephaniah (aft 100 B.C. & bef A.D. 70)
Source for both Quotes above:
From Page 535 of the ‘Lost Orthodoxy’ Book:
“There is a great deal more of the Ethiopic text, but it is very evidently of later date; the next words are: Next: ‘ The Father hath committed all judgement unto the Son.’ The destiny of sinners -their eternal [AGE-DURING] doom- is more than Peter can endure: he appeals to Christ to have pity on them. And my Lord answered me and said to me: ‘Hast thou understood that which I said unto thee before? It is permitted unto thee to know that concerning which thou askest: but thou must not tell that which thou hearest unto the sinners lest they transgress the more, and sin.’ Peter weeps many hours, and is at last consoled by an answer which, though exceedingly diffuse and vague does seem to promise ultimate pardon for all: ‘My Father will give unto them all the life, the glory, and the kingdom that passeth not away,’ . . . ‘It is because of them that have believed in Me that I am come. It is also because of them that have believed in Me, that, at their word, I shall have pity on men.’ The doctrine that sinners will be saved at last by the prayers of the righteous is, rather obscurely, enunciated in the Second Book of the Sibylline Oracles (a paraphrase, in this part, of the Apocalypse), and in the (Coptic) Apocalypse of Elias (see post). Ultimately Peter orders Clement to hide this revelation in a box, that foolish men may not see it. The passage in the Second Book of the Sibylline Oracles which seems to point to the ultimate salvation of all sinners will be found in the last lines of the translation given below.”
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apocalypsepeter-mrjames.html
iii. Apocalypse of Elijah
“Then the sinners [ in torment ] will see the place of the righteous. And thus GRACE WILL OCCUR. In THOSE DAYS, that which the RIGHTEOUS will ASK for MANY TIMES WILL BE GIVEN to them.” – Apocalypse of Elijah (Veses 28 – 29)
Source:
http://www.3-in-1.net/Pseudepigrapha/ApocalypseofElijah/TheApocalypseofElijah.htm
Sibyline Oracles – apostle Paul & St. Justin Martyr told us to Read it:
To quote:
“… for a long day will God make.
And to the pious will the almighty God
405 Imperishable grant another thing,
When they shall ask the imperishable God:
That he will suffer men from raging fire
And endless gnawing anguish to be saved;
And this will he do. For hereafter he
410 Will pluck them from the restless flame, elsewhere
Remove them, and for his own people’s sake
Send them to other and eternal life
With the immortals, in Elysian field,” (Sibyline Oracles, Book II, 297-322, p. 51)
I repeat with [Emphasis] for a clearer Understanding:
“… for a long day will God make.
And to the pious [Christians] will the Almighty God
405 Imperishable grant another thing,
When they [righteous] shall ask [Pray to] the imperishable God:
That He [God] will suffer [Save] men from raging [Lake of] fire
And endless gnawing anguish to be saved;
And this will He [God] do. For hereafter He [God]
410 Will pluck them [Wicked] from the restless flame, elsewhere
Remove them, and for his own people’s sake [at the righteous’ prayers] Send them to other [another Lower Place] and eternal life With the immortals [Christians], in Elysian field,” (Sibyline Oracles, Book II, 297-322, p. 51)
Translation Source:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/sib/sib04.htm
Source – Detailed Post:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/
The Passage below refers to the Salvation Context post-Lake of Fire or the Final Gehenna Judgment as it is quoted below in full for you to see this as well clearly:
“… 39 And we said unto him: Lord, is this thy purpose, that thou leavest us, to come upon them? (Will all this come to pass, Eth.) He answered and said unto us: After what manner shall the judgement be? whether righteous or unrighteous? (In Copt. and Eth. the general sense is the same: but the answer of Jesus in the form of a question is odd, and there is probably a corruption.) We said unto him: Lord, in that day they will say unto thee: Thou hast not distinguished between (probably: will they not say unto thee: Thou hast distinguished between) righteousness and unrighteousness, between the light and the darkness, and evil and good? Then said he: I will answer them and say: Unto Adam was power given to choose one of the two: he chose the light and laid his hand thereon, but the darkness he left behind him and cast away from him. Therefore have all men power to believe in the light which is life, and which is the Father that hath sent me. And every one that believeth and doeth the works of the light shall live in them; but if there be any that confesseth that he belongeth unto the light, and doeth the works of darkness, such an one hath no defence to utter, neither can he lift up his face to look upon the Son of God, which Son am I. For I will say unto him: As thou soughtest, so hast thou found, and as thou askedst, so hast thou received. Therefore condemnest thou me, O man? Wherefore hast thou departed from me and denied me? And wherefore hast thou confessed me and yet denied me? hath not every man power to live and to die? Whoso then hath kept my commandments shall be a son of the light, that is, of the Father that is in me. But because of them that corrupt my words am I come down from heaven. I am the word: I became flesh, and I wearied myself (or, suffered) and taught, saying: The heavy laden shall be saved, and they that are gone astray shall go astray for ever. They shall be chastised and tormented in their flesh and in their soul. 40 And we said unto him: O Lord, verily we are sorrowful for their sake. And he said unto us: Ye do rightly, for the righteous are sorry for the sinners, and pray for them, making prayer unto my Father. Again we said unto him: Lord, is there none that maketh intercession unto thee (so Eth.)? And he said unto us: Yea, and I will hearken unto the prayer of the righteous which they make for them…” (Epistle of the Apostles, Coptic, Points 39 – 40 in full)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apostolorum.html
“And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.” – apostle John (Revelations 22:17, NKJV)
where
The Spirit = God
The Bride = Christians
“who thirsts” = anyone who is not yet reconciled to God (e. g. Those in the Lake of Fire, as Fire makes them thirsty)
Free = Free Justification eventually toward “All” as Promised in Holy Scripture by the “Faith of Jesus Christ” (Romans 3:22) or the ‘Faith of God’ (Romans 3:3) which never Fails (seen only in accurate word to word translations, Romans 3:4)
Yes, another Bible Verse Proving Salvation from the Lake of Fire/Gehenna as these may “… be saved, yet so as through fire…”:
“For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” – The Blessed Apostle Paul, Apostle of Lord Jesus Christ to the Gentiles (1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15, NASB)
“… It’s a Great Honor to Beg God in this life & the next for both our Salvation & the Salvation of the Damned …” – Anonymous Christian
Thank You for Reading!
Christ Centered Universalism – Apostolic Fathers – First Christianity
1) Who is an ‘Apostolic Father’?
The title ‘Apostolic Father’ refers to anyone who has been a direct disciple of one of the Apostles of Lord Jesus Christ. For example, St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch (c. 35 AD – c. 108 AD), and St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna (c. 69 AD – c. 156 AD) were both ‘Apostolic Fathers’ having been direct disciples of Apostle John himself. We also have St. Clement of Rome who was a Disciple of the Blessed Apostle Peter (c.35 AD – c. 99 AD).
2) Did the Apostolic Fathers Teach Eternal Fire or Everlasting Punishment?
“… [The martyrs] despised all the torments of this world, redeeming themselves from eternal punishment by [the suffering of] a single hour. For this reason the fire of their savage executioners appeared cool to them. For they kept before their view the escape from that fire that is eternal and shall never be quenched…” – St. Polycarp of Smyrna, Disciple of the Blessed Apostle John (c. 69 AD – c. 156 AD, ibid 2:3, Akin, Fathers, page 394)
Source:
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/EternalHell.htm
“… For if we do the will of Christ, we shall find rest; otherwise, nothing shall deliver us from eternal punishment, if we disobey His commandments. For thus also saith the Scripture in Ezekiel, “If Noah, Job, and Daniel should rise up, they should not deliver their children in captivity.” Now, if men so eminently righteous are not able by their righteousness to deliver their children, how can we hope to enter into the royal residence of God unless we keep our baptism holy and undefiled? Or who shall be our advocate, unless we be found possessed of works of holiness and righteousness? …” – St. Clement of Rome, Disciple of the Blessed Apostle Peter (c.35 AD – c. 99 AD, 2 Clement, Chapter VI)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/2clement-roberts.html
“… Do not err, my brethren. Those that corrupt families shall not inherit the kingdom of God. If, then, those who do this as respects the flesh have suffered death, how much more shall this be the case with any one who corrupts by wicked doctrine the faith of God, for which Jesus Christ was crucified! Such an one becoming defiled [in this way], shall go away into everlasting fire, and so shall every one that hearkens unto him. Do not err, my brethren. Those that corrupt families shall not inherit the kingdom of God. And if those that corrupt mere human families are condemned to death, how much more shall those suffer everlasting punishment who endeavour to corrupt the Church of Christ, for which the Lord Jesus, the only-begotten Son of God, endured the cross, and submitted to death! …” – St. Ignatius of Antioch, Disciple of the Blessed Apostle John (c. 35 AD – c. 108 AD, Epistle to the Ephesians, Chapter XVI)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-ephesians-longer.html
Note: The Greek Word itself used in each of these passages means ‘age-during literally’ (i.e. pertaining to an age) and ‘not forever’ but let us suppose that these translations & such scholars are correct in assuming that it’s an ‘idiomatic way’ to mean ‘everlasting’ in Koine Greek as claimed.
3) Other Apostolic Fathers to Interpret these Apostolic Father’s Quotes
“… Of the way of darkness, that is, what kind of persons will forever be cast out of the kingdom of God. But the way of darkness is crooked and full of cursing. For it is the way of eternal death, with punishment, in which those that walk will meet those things that destroy their own souls. Such are: idolatry, confidence, pride of power, hypocrisy, double-mindedness, adultery, murder, pillage, pride, transgression, deceit, malice, arrogance, witchcraft, covetousness, and the lack of the fear of God…” – Epistle of Barnabas, Perhaps the St. Barnabas who walked with the Blessed Apostle Paul as St. Clement of Alexandria points to it hence an Apostolic Father too (Chapter 15:1, 2)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/info/barnabas-general.html
“… Then, though thou art placed on earth, thou shalt behold that God liveth in heaven; then shalt thou begin to declare the mysteries of God; then shalt thou both love and admire those that are punished because they will not deny God; then shalt thou condemn the deceit and error of the world; when thou shalt perceive the true life which is in heaven, when thou shalt despise the apparent death which is here on earth, when thou shalt fear the real death, which is reserved for those that shall be condemned to the eternal fire that shall punish those delivered over to it unto the end. Then shalt thou admire those who endure for righteousness’ sake the fire that is for a season, and shalt count them blessed when thou perceivest that fire . Mine are no strange discourses nor perverse questionings, but having been a disciple of Apostles I come forward as a teacher of the Gentiles, ministering worthily to them, as they present themselves disciples of the truth, the lessons which have been handed down…” – Mathetes meaning ‘a direct Disciple of the Apostles’, hence Probably an Un-Named Apostolic Father (Epistle To Diognetus, Chapter 10:7, 10:8, 11:1, Oldest Copyist Fragment Dated to about c. 130 AD meaning its Content must have been passed down/preserved via Copying)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diognetus-lightfoot.html
Note: Please notice that the authour of the Epistle above is unknown but called himself as ‘Mathetes’ meaning ‘a Student of the Apostles’ as it quoted above too just after discussing the ‘eternal fire’ punishment.
One non-Apostolic Father helpful quote:
“… We [Christians] are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one…. Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul…. or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated…” – St. Athenagoras of Athens (c. 133 AD – c. 190 AD, ‘self taught Christian’, Plea for the Christians 31)
Source:
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/EternalHell.htm
4) Do the Apostolic Fathers’ Quotes above Teach Eternal Hell?
I don’t think so. Why?
As even Christian Annihilation-Believers often quote these same quotes as do eternal Hell theologians (Proving that these are all accepted Orthodox Quotes), it is interesting to see that the quotes in 3) above describe the ‘Eternal Fire’ or ‘Everlasting Punishment’ to have an END and hence it either means one of the following:
or
Firstly here are the quotes using the same Greek Words meaning eternal fire/punishment but stating in the same breadth that these has an END from the list above from the ‘other Apostolic Fathers’, truncated below for emphasis:
“… Of the way of darkness, that is, what kind of persons will forever be cast out of the kingdom of God… it is the way of eternal death, with punishment,… that destroy their own souls…” – Epistle of Barnabas (Chapter 15:1, 2)
Focus Phrase Proving an END: “… eternal death, with punishment,… that destroy their own souls…” . The END of the ‘Eternal Punishment’ is the ‘Destruction of the Soul’ after the Body of course (Matthew 10:28 in Gehenna or the Lake of Fire) as with it it rises during the ‘Resurrection of Judgment’ (John 5:28 – 29).
“… when thou shalt fear the real death, which is reserved for those that shall be condemned to the eternal fire that shall punish those delivered over to it unto the end. … Mine are no strange discourses nor perverse questionings, but having been a disciple of Apostles I come forward as a teacher of the Gentiles, ministering worthily to them, as they present themselves disciples of the truth, the lessons which have been handed down…” – Mathetes (Epistle To Diognetus, Chapter 10:7, 10:8, 11:1)
Focus Phrase Proving an END: “… condemned to the eternal fire that shall punish those delivered over to it unto the end…” The END is clearly the Destruction of those Punished (e.g. 1 Corinthians 3:17) in Body + Soul (in Gehenna again, Matthew 10:28). So, there is NO indication that the Body + Soul exists forever in punishment but are destroyed toward an END.
“… Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul…. or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated…” – St. Athenagoras of Athens (c. 133 AD – c. 190 AD, ‘self taught Christian’, Plea for the Christians 31)
Focus Phrase Proving an END: “… rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire;.. a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated…”. Again it must be the Body & Soul only (not Spirit) which is Destroyed or something ANNIHILATED with/in it in Accordance to Holy Scripture’s Matthew 10:28 in the Lake of Fire/Gehenna (Revelation 20:11 – 15).
Comment: Christian Annihilation Believers (or ‘Conditional Mortality’ Believers) often refer to these most authoritative First Christianity quotes at the ‘Apostolic Father Level’ to support their Beliefs as these are also Endorsed & Quoted by the Eternal Hell Theologians as well (as seen in links provided prior too). Annihilationists state that the Wicked cease to exist forever after this punishment & thus it is termed as ‘everlasting punishment’ (Matthew 25:46) or even ‘everlasting destruction’ (2 Thessalonians 1:9).
The Difference is that I believe in each Quote here from the ‘Apostolic Fathers’ in First Christianity even with the phrase translated as ‘Everlasting Punishment’ instead of ‘Age-During Chastisement’. This is because without prejudice of rejecting any of these quotes especially the ones proving that the ‘everlasting punishment has an end’ (which probably reveals the intended meaning in its fullness), it must thus mean that the ‘everlasting refers to some permanent loss of the Greatest Salvation and/or the Loss of the ‘Sin’ in the Body + Soul Everlastingly as this is Discussed in the Conclusion next with other Authoritative Quotes & Bible Verses.
Conclusion
Bible Verse Proving Salvation from the Lake of Fire/Gehenna:
“For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” – The Blessed Apostle Paul, Apostle of Lord Jesus Christ to the Gentiles (1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15, NASB)
Let’s Begin to Consider Common Objections & Consider in Depth Explanations as follows:
2.i. Purgatory
The Verses above Speak of “… the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire…” referring to the ‘Lake of Fire/Gehenna at the end of this Age/Aeon which has not happened yet’ (Luke 12:49). Yes, ‘the Day’ in this Verse refers to “the Day of the Lord” and hence not the Timeline now for which Purgatory exists and it is clearly Written by Apostle Paul himself that ‘this Fire’ only tests the Work on ‘that Day of the Lord’ & hence can’t refer to any fire in ‘purgatory now’. Can you see it?
2.ii. Believers only
Nowhere in Scripture above it is referenced to ‘believers only’ but to ‘each man’ or ‘every man’ in some translations meaning all of mankind. Also, the Lord only Judges on ‘that Day’ (Acts 17:31) for deeds done in the ‘Body’ as ‘the soul cannot be judged without the resurrection of Judgment with its body first’ (John 5:28 – 29). Also, believers do not come under any afterlife Judgment (John 5:24) and the ‘fallen believers’ are not considered part of the ‘Tower of Repentance or Church’ who die unrepentant & repent in the afterlife to be placed in some ‘other place more humble’ as stated in the Shepherd of Hermas (discussed in posts prior). Also, the ‘fallen believers’ are not distinguished to have a different punishment from the rest of the unbelievers as our Most Blessed Saviour Himself states in Luke 12:46 where the Lake of Fire Punishment is Described next to be ‘Proportionate the Sins/hence not eternal (implied) being countable as few vs many and not infinite’ as mentioned in Luke 12:47 – 48 where in this Context of Gehenna/Lake of Fire which the Master wishes to Kindle in the Future on Earth (Luke 12:49), these Lake of Fire Punishments are further Repeated to mean ‘not forever’ but ‘only till the last penny’ in Luke 12:59 as Christ Parabolically Describes all this in Regards to this Same Topic in Luke 12 even Remarking to His Listeners that ‘this is what is right’ (in regards to Justice or Judgment) in Luke 12:57.
Please allow me to quote from the one who Converted, Baptized and Taught St. Augustine himself namely, Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan regarding the Proper/True Context of 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15 in First Christianity as it was in Roman Catholicism itself through his writing as follows:
“… What else can this mean — namely, that fire became water and water called forth fire — but that spiritual grace burns out our sins through fire, and through water cleanses them [Revelation 21:8, Revelation 22:17]? For sin is washed away and it is burnt away. Wherefore the Apostle says: “The fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.” And further on: “If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” [1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15] . This, then, we have stated, so as to prove that sins are burnt out by means of fire. We know now that this is in truth the sacred fire which then, as a type of the future remission of sins, came down upon the sacrifice. This fire is hidden in the time of captivity, during which sin reigns, but in the time of liberty it is brought forth [Romans 8:21 – 22, Revelation 20:11 – 15]]. And though it is changed into the appearance of water, yet it preserves its nature as fire so as to consume the sacrifice. Do not wonder when thou readest that God the Father said: “I am a consuming fire.” And again: “They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living water.” The Lord Jesus, too, like a fire inflamed the hearts of those who heard Him, and like a fount of waters cooled them. For He Himself said in His Gospel that He came to send fire on the earth [Luke 12:49] and to supply a draught of living waters to those who thirst [Revelation 22:17]…”– Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Chapter 18, Points 103 – 105, Page 244 – 245, Book III, Duties of the Clergy)
Source:
[Emphasis Mine]
Please notice carefully that St. Ambrose clearly ties up the Gehenna/Lake of Fire (Luke 12:49) when he quotes 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15 disproving St. Augustine. He also implies that this is not referring to Purgatory for Christians only but for “every man” and quotes apostle Paul exactly as this same person will be Saved after his time in the [Lake of] Fire, i.e. “… he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire…”… to prove that sins are burnt out by means of fire … a type of the future remission of sins, came down upon the sacrifice …”.
St. Ambrose clearly refers to 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15 to the ‘future’ to Burn Away Sins in the Lake of Fire toward Sinners as a Type of Baptism Promised to ‘all human beings eventually’ (Joel 2:28, Acts 2:17) where believers clearly receive it on earth as he writes about the Pentecost in relation to this (you may read in source above), as he states in the above:
“… but that spiritual grace burns out our sins through fire, and through water cleanses them [Revelation 21:8, Revelation 22:17] … For sin is washed away and it is burnt away … The fire shall try every man’s work … If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire… to prove that sins are burnt out by means of fire. .. as a type of the future remission of sins, came down upon the sacrifice… ” – St. Ambrose of Milan
Yes, this Lake of Fire Will Consume the Sin in those cast into it (Revelation 21:8) and Set them to Liberty from it:
“… This fire is hidden in the time of captivity, during which sin reigns, but in the time of liberty it is brought forth [Romans 8:21 – 22, Revelation 20:11 – 15]]. And though it is changed into the appearance of water, yet it preserves its nature as fire so as to consume the sacrifice. Do not wonder when thou readest that God the Father said: “I am a consuming fire.” And again: “They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living water.” The Lord Jesus, too, like a fire inflamed the hearts of those who heard Him, and like a fount of waters cooled them. For He Himself said in His Gospel that He came to send fire on the earth [Luke 12:49] and to supply a draught of living waters to those who thirst [Revelation 22:17]…” – St. Ambrose of Milan
Yes, this is an accurate Context as a point or two earlier St. Ambrose reveals in his quote below that this Lake of Fire is Signified to ‘consume all sin’ for the ‘Forgiveness of all’ (who are cast into it):
“… We form the congregation of the Lord. We recognize the propitiation of our Lord God, which our Propitiator wrought in His passion [1 John 2:2]. I think, too, we cannot leave out of sight that fire when we read that the Lord Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit and with fire, as John said in his Gospel [John 1:33]. Rightly was the sacrifice consumed, for it was for sin . But that fire was a type of the Holy Spirit Who was to come down after the Lord’s ascension, and forgive the sins of all, [Mark 9:49]…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Chapter 18, Points 102, Page 244, Book III, Duties of the Clergy)
Source:
St. Ambrose points out that the ‘Baptism of Fire’ causes Death to some but renewal of inner man (‘spirit saved’ after the outer body + soul or flesh is destroyed) as with the Case of Noah too as follows:
“… In the flood, too, in Noah’s time all flesh died, though just Noah was preserved together with his family. Is not a man consumed when all that is mortal is cut off from life? The outer man is destroyed, but the inner is renewed. Not in baptism alone but also in repentance does this destruction of the flesh tend to the growth of the spirit, as we are taught on the Apostle’s authority, when holy Paul says: “I have judged as though I were present him that hath so done this deed, to deliver him unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Chapter 18, Points 108, Page 245, Book III, Duties of the Clergy)
Source:
The Phrase “… Not in baptism alone but also in repentance does this destruction of the flesh tend to the growth of the spirit, …” clearly points to St. Ambrose stating that apart from this Final “… being Saved by [the Lake of] Fire…” for some men during Judgment Day when they are Baptized by this Fire, for those ‘in repentance’ (i.e. ‘some Christians’) experience it now within our current mortal bodies itself hence being saved in the spirit on that day already [without needing to go through the resurrection of Judgment, implied] whilst the best Christians are preserved through Baptism of Water wholly without Judgment as the example of Noah proves.
This is exactly how this ancient authority of doctrine understood it too:
“… “Let them , if they will, walk in our way and in Christ’s. If not, let them walk in their own way. Perchance there they will be baptized with fire, with that last, that more laborious and longer baptism, which devours the substance like hay, and consumes the lightness of all evil.”…” – ArchBishop St. Gregory of Nazianzen as he regarded punishment after death as limited, is sufficiently evident from this reference to the heretical Novatians: (c. 329 AD – c. 390 AD, Assemani Bibl. Orient. Tom. III, p. 323.)
Source:
https://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html
3.i. The Works of Sin: “wood, hay, straw”
Please notice carefully that ArchBishop St. Gregory of Nazianzen’s last quote above identifies the ‘hay’ as referring to ‘sinful things/false teaching in the Novatians Heretics’.
St. Ambrose of Milan clearly uses the phrases “wood, hay, straw” to refer to ‘sins only (lust)’ which ‘fuel the fire of sin’ strengthening our claim as some Christians misunderstand it to mean ‘lighter good works’, to quote:
“… An external fire is extinguished by pouring on water, it is then no wonder if the inward heat of the body is cooled by draughts from the stream, for the flame is fed or fails according to the fuel. As hay, straw, wood, oil, and such like things are the nourishment which feeds fire, if you take them away, or do not supply them, the fire is extinguished. In like manner then the heat of the body is supported or lessened by food, it is excited by food and lessened by food. Luxury then is the mother of lust.. ” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Points 26, Page 1048, Epistle LXHI, To Christians at Vercellae, 396 AD)
Source:
In the quote below, St. Ambrose clearly distinguishes that only these three works (gold, silver, precious stones) are ‘works on the foundation of faith’ (i.e. of Christians):
“… Let each one then strive that be may be able to receive a reward according to his labor. “For we are laborers together with God,” as the Apostle said; “we are God’s husbandry, God’s building.” Blessed therefore is he who sees such usury on his principal; blessed too is he who beholds the fruit of his work; blessed again is he “who builds upon the foundation of faith, gold, silver, precious stones.” …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Point 8, Page 674, Chapter 1, Book V Exposition of the Christian Faith)
Source:
This Agrees to the Verse below too where both the Good and Bad are Judged in One Judgment Seat of Christ only as it is Written in the Book of Revelation too (Revelation 20:11 – 15):
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.” – the Blessed Apostle Paul (2 Corinthians 5:10, NASB)
Comment: These three works “gold, silver, precious stones” may even refer to the ‘hundredfold, sixty fold, thirty fold’ mystery too respectively (Conjecture).
Note: The phrase: “… no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ….” (in 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15) easily debunks the idea that these Verses refer to the believers Judgment only under the claim that the Foundation Spoken of is Jesus Christ because ‘it is Written clearly here that no other foundation is possible either’. This means that every man’s work is tested upon the Lake of Fire’s Baptism on Judgment Day by Lord Jesus Christ’s Perfect Foundation where though the evil man’s works may be burnt (same punishment in the Lake of Fire toward fallen Christians & Unbelievers in Luke 12:46 – 47) these may be “saved by fire” (1 Corinthians 3:15), i.e. by the Lake of Fire’s Baptism which Destroys all sin in the Body + Soul during this Destruction (Matthew 10:28).
3.iii. Destruction of the Body and Soul in Gehenna/Lake of Fire (Matthew 10:28)
St. Ambrose’s quote below agrees to Salvation post-afterlife Judgment toward a non-repentant died in sin fallen Christian case whose punishment sentence is the same as an unbeliever as Luke 12:46 implies clearly ‘as the place/portion’ with the ‘unbelievers’ (Revelation 21:8 too) whose spirit is Promised to be Saved on the ‘Lord’s Day’ (1 Corinthians 5:5):
“… I write unto you not to keep company if any man that is named a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater.” Those whom he has joined together under one penalty, he willed to attain together to forgiveness. “If any be such,” he says, “with him not to eat.” How severe he is with the obstinate, how indulgent to those who seek. Against those rises up in arms the injury done to Christ, whilst the calling upon Christ aids these. But lest any one be perplexed because it is written: “I have delivered such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, and should say: How can he attain forgiveness whose whole flesh has perished, seeing that it is evident that man was redeemed both in body and soul, and is saved in both and that neither the soul without the body, nor yet the body without the soul, since both are united by their fellowship in the deeds that have been done, can be without fellowship either in punishment or in reward? Let this suffice for an answer to him. That “destruction” does not mean the complete annihilation of the flesh, but its chastening. For as he who is dead to sin lives to God, so the allurements of the flesh perish, and the flesh dies to its lusts, in order that it may live again to purity and to other good works. And what more suitable example can we take than one from our common mother? For the earth itself, from which we are all taken, when it is not worked and cultivated, seems to be desert; and the field dies to the vines or olive-trees with which it was planted, and yet it does not lose its own nutritive power, which is, as it were, its life. And then later, when cultivation begins once more, and the seed is sown for which the land seems suitable, it breaks forth again more fruitful than before with its products. It is not, then, anything so strange if our flesh is said to die, and yet is understood to be subdued rather than annihilated…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Points 94 – 96, Page 807, Chapter 17, Book I Concerning Repentance)
Source:
Comment: In the fallen believer’s Judgment Sentence above, it happens either in this life or during the ‘Resurrection of Judgment’ (John 5:28 – 29) because St. Ambrose clearly sets the Context for ‘resurrection before judgment’ first for the body + soul to be together in his quote from the above as follows:
“… nor yet the body without the soul, since both are united by their fellowship in the deeds that have been done, can be without fellowship either in punishment or in reward? [Context: John 5:28 – 29 is included] Let this suffice for an answer to him. That “destruction” does not mean the complete annihilation of the flesh, but its chastening [Context for Matthew 10:28 in Gehenna/Lake of Fire is included in Principle]. … For as he who is dead to sin lives to God, so the allurements of the flesh perish, and the flesh dies to its lusts, in order that it may live again to purity and to other good works. … it is not, then, anything so strange if our flesh is said to die, and yet is understood to be subdued rather than annihilated …[for 1 Corinthians 5:5]…” St. Ambrose of Milan
Christians do not receive any recompense for the bad on Judgment Day (John 5:24) as they are already judged in their life prior on earth itself (Hebrews 12:8) and so the ones receiving any bad must thus refer to the non-Christians in 2 Corinthians 5:10 where these are said to be “Saved by Fire” (i.e. after the lake of Fire) in 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15 according to the Punishment Level (Many or Few, Luke 12:47- 48) where fallen believers are considered to receive the same equal punishment in the Lake of Fire (Luke 12:49) together with the unbelievers (Luke 12:46, Revelation 21:8) till the last penny only or ‘to the end’ and not forever (Luke 12:59) as Lord Jesus Christ Declared this Justice as Right (Luke 12:57 – 59).
“… At this juncture, one is to be reminded that Ambrose was actually a Christian universalist, as was seen in the preceding section. How can his antisemitism be reconciled with his universalism? His conceivable answer to this question is his interesting universalist view that even if people such as the Jews (and also the Arians) may miss the first resurrection, they will be purified by the fire of punishment by the time of the second resurrection, and that if they miss even that chance, they will simply stay longer in the fire of punishment that will eventually purify them:
‘…Our Saviour has appointed two kinds of resurrection, in accordance with which John says, in the Apocalypse, “Blessed is he that hath part in the first resurrection”; for such come to grace without the judgment. As for those who do not come to the first, but are reserved until the second resurrection, these shall be burnt, until they fulfill their appointed times, between the first and the second resurrection; or, if they should not have fulfilled them then, they shall remain still longer in punishment … ‘ – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD) …”
Source:
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ambrose
So the Case of ‘All Israel will be Saved’ (Romans 11:26) agrees to our exegesis where the ‘two-thirds that perish in the Lake of Fire to the end’ (Zechariah 13:9) may be raised during the Second Resurrection to life after the thousand years are over by God’s Mercy (Revelation 20:5) and the ‘one-third refers to the ones partaking of the First Resurrection to life’ which is His Church = Christians = His Bride (Revelation 20:4 – 6) who call out with God the Spirit for the thirsty ones from the Lake of Fire (implied as ‘fire causes thirst’) to drink of the Water of Life Freely (Revelation 22:17) attaining to the ‘Common Lot’ of Salvation (shared toward all creation eventually toward sinlessness, Romans 8:21 – 22) as St. Ambrose Describes above and the quotes by the Apostolic Fathers below agree too toward this END for ALL MEN (all human beings):
Perfection of God Means God Saves ‘All Men’ eventually as Basic or General Salvation is likened to the ‘Rain falling both on the Just & Unjust’ and so ‘enmity on account of faith is with Love’
“… ” You ought therefore to “hate those that hate God, and to waste away [with grief] on account of His enemies.” I do not mean that you should beat them or persecute them, as do the Gentiles “that know not the Lord and God; ” but that you should regard them as your enemies, and separate yourselves from them, while yet you admonish them, and exhort them to repentance, if it may be they will hear, if it may be they will submit themselves. For our God is a lover of mankind, and “will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” [1 Timothy 2:4] Wherefore “He makes His sun to rise upon the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust; ” of whose kindness the Lord, wishing us also to be imitators, says, “Be ye perfect, even as also your Father that is in heaven is perfect.” [Matthew 5:44 – 48]…” – St. Ignatius of Antioch, Disciple of the Blessed Apostle John (c. 35 AD – c. 108 AD, Epistle to the Philadelphians, Chapter III)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-philadelphians-longer.html
Context: The phrase “… our God is a lover of mankind, and “will have all men to be saved … His sun to rise upon the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust; …even as also your Father that is in heaven is perfect…” clearly Proves that St. Ignatius Believes that ‘All Men’ (in the Context of ‘God being a Lover of Mankind’, hence it means all human beings ever created) will be Saved eventually.
Christ Draws (Drags as in Catching Fish in a Net as it means in Koine Greek) ‘All Men’ as St. Ignatius applies the General Word ‘Draw All’ or ‘Draw All things’ in John 12:32 to the Subset of ‘All Men’ as follows:
“… and once more, “If I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto Me [John 12:32].” The Word therefore did dwell in flesh, for “Wisdom built herself an house.” The Word raised up again His own temple on the third day, when it had been destroyed by the Jews fighting against Christ. The Word, when His flesh was lifted up, after the manner of the brazen serpent in the wilderness [John 3:14], drew all men to Himself for their eternal salvation [John 12:32]…” – St. Ignatius of Antioch, Disciple of the Blessed Apostle John (c. 35 AD – c. 108 AD, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, Chapter II)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-smyrnaeans-longer.html
Please notice carefully that St. Ignatius mentions that this ‘Drawing of All [Men]’ by Christ in John 12:32 results in the Final Salvation of ‘All Men’, in his words, “… drew all men to Himself for their eternal salvation…” as Stated in a past tense Prophetically as a Done Reality to Him.
iii. St. Irenaeous of Lyons agrees to John 12:32 to refer to “All” or “All things” including “All Men” likewise
Please consider this Biblical Context as follows as a Theologian Lion in First Christianity explains so simply:
“… Jesus Christ our Lord, who did also suffer for us, and rose again on our behalf, and who will come again in the glory of His Father, to raise up all flesh, and for the manifestation of salvation, and to apply the rule of just judgment to all who were made by Him. There is therefore, as I have pointed out, one God the Father, and one Christ Jesus, who came by means of the whole dispensational arrangements [connected with Him], and gathered together all things in Himself. But in every respect, too, He is man, the formation of God; and thus He took up man into Himself, the invisible becoming visible, the incomprehensible being made comprehensible, the impassible becoming capable of suffering, and the Word being made man, thus summing up all things in Himself: so that as in super-celestial, spiritual, and invisible things, the Word of God is supreme, so also in things visible and corporeal He might possess the supremacy, and, taking to Himself the pre-eminence, as well as constituting Himself Head of the Church, He might draw all things to Himself [John 12:32] at the proper time.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XVI, Point 6, Book III)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
Please note the ‘order of time’ in St. Irenaeous Writing above as follows (in Proper Context):
Final Judgment (including the Resurrection of Judgment, John 5:29, Daniel 12:2 for the Wicked in Gehenna or the Lake of Fire context, Matthew 10:28, Revelation 20:11 – 15)
“to raise up all flesh, and for the manifestation of salvation, and to apply the rule of just judgment to all who were made by Him” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons
Gathering of All [Created] things after that (Ephesians 1:9 – 11, Colossians 1:16, 20)
“Christ Jesus, who came by means of the whole dispensational arrangements [connected with Him], and gathered together all things in Himself.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons
He Sums Up All Created things and not just His Church (Christians) back to Himself – Recapitulation Doctrine
“thus summing up all things in Himself: so that as in super-celestial, spiritual, and invisible things, the Word of God is supreme, so also in things visible and corporeal He might possess the supremacy, and, taking to Himself the pre-eminence, as well as constituting Himself Head of the Church, He might draw all things to Himself at the proper time.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons
Universal Reconciliation of “All [Created] things” (Colossians 1:16, 20, Ephesians 1:9 – 11) to be ‘free from sin/decay’ (Romans 8:21 – 22) has not happened yet (Hebrews 2:8) but will happen eventually in its own proper Divine Kairois-plural Times (1 Timothy 2:6, 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28).
“Himself Head of the Church, He might draw all things to Himself at the proper time.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons
Please note that the ‘Draw all things’ which St. Irenaeous quotes in John 12:32’s Context refers to ‘ALL CREATED THINGS’ and ‘not Christians only’ (Calvinism/Augustinism) nor ‘Humans only’ (limited Universalism) as St. Irenaeous defines this Apostolic Orthodox Definition in the above for the ‘All things’ in the ‘Draw All Things’ (John 12:32’s Context) to refer to (in his own words as): “… the Word being made man, thus summing up all things in Himself: so that as in super-celestial, spiritual, and invisible things, the Word of God is supreme, so also in things visible and corporeal He might possess the supremacy,…”.
When we read the above not following the ‘order of time’ (Context) as St. Irenaeous points out above in his own words, we miss the meaning likewise too.
“… Your third and last question relates to the passage in the same epistle where the apostle in discussing the resurrection, comes to the words: “for he must reign, till he hath put all things under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him that God may be all in all.” [1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28] I am surprised that you have resolved to question me about this passage when that reverend man, Hilary, bishop of Poictiers, has occupied the eleventh book of his treatise against the Arians with a full examination and explanation of it. Yet I may at least say a few words. The chief stumbling-block in the passage is that the Son is said to be subject to the Father. Now which is the more shameful and humiliating, to be subject to the Father (often a mark of loving devotion as in the psalm “truly my soul is subject unto God”) or to be crucified and made the curse of the cross? For “cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree.” If Christ then for our sakes was made a curse that He might deliver us from the curse of the law, are you surprised that lie is also for our sakes subject to the Father to make us too subject to Him as He says in the gospel: “No man cometh unto the Father but by me,” and “I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will DRAW ALL men UNTO ME.” [John 12:32] Christ then is subject to the Father in the faithful; for ALL BELIEVERS, NAY the WHOLE HUMAN RACE, are accounted MEMBERS of HIS BODY. But in UNBELIEVERS, that is in JEWS, HEATHENS, and HERETICS, He is said to be NOT SUBJECT; for these members of His body are NOT SUBJECT to the FAITH. But in the END of the world when ALL HIS MEMBERS shall SEE CHRIST, that is their own body, reigning, THEY ALSO shall be MADE SUBJECT to Christ, that is to their own body, that the whole of Christ’s body may be subject unto God and the Father, and that God may be ALL in ALL [1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28]. He does not say “that the Father may be all in all” but that “God” may be, a title which properly belongs to the Trinity and may be referred not only to the Father but also to the Son and to the Holy Ghost. His meaning therefore is “that HUMANITY may be SUBJECT to the GODHEAD.” By HUMANITY we here intend not that gentleness and kindness which the Greeks call philanthropy but the WHOLE HUMAN RACE Moreover when he says “that God may be all in all,” it is to be taken in this sense. At present our Lord and Saviour is not all in all, but only a part in each of us. For instance He is wisdom in Solomon, generosity in David, patience in Job, knowledge of things to come in Daniel faith in Peter, zeal in Phinehas and Paul, virginity in John, and other virtues in others. But when the end of all things shall come, then shall He be all in all, for then the saints shall severally possess all the virtues and all will possess Christ in His entirety….” – St. Jerome of the Vulgate, Second Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 347 AD – c. 420 AD, Letter LV TO AMANDUS, Point 5, Written about the year 394 A. D.)
Source:
http://www.annussacerdotalis.org/clerus/dati/2001-02/17-999999/Lett.html
Comment: In his quote below from the above, St. Jerome clearly implies that St. Hilary Poictiers (c. 300 AD – c. 367 AD, also a “Doctor of the Church”, & the ‘Athanasius of the West’) clearly believed in the same Christ Centered Universalism argument Presented here though such writing of his may be ‘lost’ today, to quote this part:
“… I am surprised that you have resolved to question me about this passage when that reverend man, Hilary, bishop of Poictiers, has occupied the eleventh book of his treatise against the Arians with a full examination and explanation of it. …” – St. Jerome of the Vulgate in quote above whilst quoting this Theological Understanding in First Orthodox Christianity,
All in the World will Believe in Christ and be Saved in the End – Context for 1 Timothy 3:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28
“… Let us then shortly sum up our CONCLUSION on the whole matter. A unity of power puts aside all idea of a degrading subjection. His giving up of power, and His victory as conqueror won over death, have not lessened His power. Obedience works out subjection. Christ has taken obedience upon Himself, obedience even to taking on Him our flesh, the cross even to gaining our salvation. Thus where the work lies, there too is the Author of the work. When therefore, all things have become subject to Christ, through Christ’s obedience, so that ALL bend their knees in His name, then He Himself will be ALL in ALL. For NOW, since ALL do NOT BELIEVE, ALL do NOT seem to be in SUBJECTION. But WHEN ALL have BELIEVED and DONE the will of God, then Christ will be ALL and in ALL. And when Christ is all and in all, then will God be all and in all; for the Father abides ever in the Son. How, then, is He shown to be weak, Who redeemed the weak? …” – Blessed Archbishop Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Page 726, Chapter 15, Point 182)
Source:
Context for God overcoming the Unbelief of Men as it is Written in Romans 3:3 – 4?
The Unbelief of All Men may be Solved and these may believe as it is Written above till God becomes all in all after the third shaking of the Heavens, Earth, Sea when ‘All Principalities, Powers (of Evil, Devil, Demons, Darkness) shall be Destroyed, implied’, as St. Ambrose explains:
“… This is that peace above all peace which shall be granted AFTER the THIRD SHAKING of the heaven, the sea, the earth and the dry land, when He shall DESTROY ALL PRINCIPALITIES and POWERS [Ephesians 6:12, Colossians 2:15, Isaiah 24:21]. For HEAVEN and EARTH shall PASS AWAY [Revelation 21:1],306 and ALL the FASHION of this WORLD [1 Corinthians 7:31, 1 John 2:17]; … And thus there will be peace over all, the passions of the body offering no resistance, and the UNBELIEVING mind NO OBSTACLE [Romans 3:3 – 4], that CHRIST may be ALL in ALL [1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28], offering in SUBJECTION to the Father the HEARTS of ALL MEN [1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 4:10] …” – Blessed Archbishop Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, LETTER XXX, AMBROSE TO IRENAEUS, GREETING, Point 14)
Source:
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/ambrose_letters_03_letters21_30.htm
A Hope which he Proclaims toward the Heretical Mannicheans too to be Forgiven by His Mercy & the Eternal Judgment Sentence be Canceled if God Wills it as per the Prophecies set forth in the Epistle of the Apostles (Coptic), Apocalypse of Peter, Apocalypse of Elijah, the Sibyline Oracles and even somewhat echoed in the Apocalypse of Zephaniah too as discussed in posts prior. To quote (please read the missing parts in link below to realize that this is all one long discourse, hence the same ‘Mannichean Heretics context’ but in “full”):
“… 119. Now let the Manichaean have his word. “I hold that the devil is the creator of our flesh.” The Lord will answer him: “What, then, doest thou in the heavenly places? Depart, go thy way to thy creator. ‘My will is that they be with Me, whom my Father hath given Me.’ Thou, Manichaean, holdest thyself for a creature of the devil; hasten, then, to his abode, the place of fire and brimstone, where the fire thereof is not quenched, lest ever the punishment have an end.” … 123 . What verdict do we look for from Christ? That do I know. Do I say, what verdict will He give? Nay, He hath already pronounced sentence. We have it in our hands. “Let all,” saith He, “honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son, honoreth not the Father, Who hath sent Him. ” 124. If the sentence please you not, appeal to the Father, CANCEL the JUDGMENT that the Father hath given. … For HE is the FOUNDATION of ALL, and is the head of the Church, in Whom our common nature according to the flesh has merited the right to the heavenly throne. For the flesh is honored as having a share in Christ Who is God, and the nature of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE is HONORED as HAVING a SHARE in the FLESH . As we then sit in Him by fellowship in our fleshly nature, so also He, Who through the assumption of our flesh was made a curse for us (seeing that a curse could not fall upon the blessed Son of God), so, I say, He through the OBEDIENCE of ALL will become subject in us; when the GENTILE has BELIEVED, and the JEW has ACKNOWLEDGED Him Whom he CRUCIFIED; when the MANICHAEN has WORSHIPED Him, Whom he has NOT BELIEVED to have come in the flesh; when the ARIAN has CONFESSED Him to be Almighty, Whom HE has DENIED; when, lastly, the wisdom of God, His justice, peace, love, RESURRECTION, is IN ALL. Through His own works and through the manifold forms of virtues Christ will be in us in subjection to the Father. And when, with VICE RENOUNCED and CRIME at an END, one spirit in the HEART of ALL PEOPLES has begun to cleave to God in all things, then will God be ALL and in ALL …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Book II Chapter 13 Point 119 Page 572, Chapter 14 Points 123 – 124 Page 575, Book V Chapter 14 Point 180 – Point 181 Page 725)
Source:
“… And we shall make no mistake in saying, that the final cause of an intelligent life and rational judgment, is to be occupied uninterruptedly with those objects to which the natural reason is chiefly and primaily adapted, and to delight unceasingly in the contemplation of Him who is, and of His decrees, notwithstanding that the majority of men, because they are affected too passionately and too violently by things below, pass through life without attaining this object. For the large number of those who fail of the end that belongs to them does not make void the common lot, since the examination relates to individuals, and the reward or punishment of lives ill or well spent is proportioned to the merit of each….” St. Athenagoras of Athens (c. 133 AD – c. 190 AD, ‘On the Resurrection of the Dead’ )
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/athenagoras-resurrection.html
“… . And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, “To the end, for the eighth day,” on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ,…” – St. Ignatius of Antioch, Disciple of the Blessed Apostle John (c. 35 AD – c. 108 AD, Epistle to the Magnesians, Chapter IX)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-magnesians-longer.html
Please note carefully that St. Ignatius identifies the ‘Eighth Day’ as being ‘after the Seventh Day’ where we know the Context of this is as follows:
Seventh Day = The First Resurrection toward Christians & the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ (Revelation 20:4 – 6)
Eighth Day = the Day after the Seventh Day = of which St. Ignatius says that “… victory over death was obtained in Christ…” as a “resurrection day” (where Christians are already Resurrected 1000 years before – so it must refer to the rest of man).
This Idea of a 1000 years period of time as ‘pertaining to the complete resurrection of all men’ is mysteriously echoed in the quote below too (where st. Ambrose alludes to a mythical bird called the Phoenix which rises to life every 500 years as the ‘worms that do not die’ seem to help this process by the end of 500 years whilst for us or ‘Man’ in General its within 1000 years – Coincidence or Mystery? you decide), to quote:
“… That bird in the country of Arabia, which is called the Phoenix, restored by the renovating juices of its flesh, after being dead comes to life again: shall we believe that men alone are not raised up again? … Then from its juices a worm comes forth, and grows by degrees into the fashion of the same bird, and its former habits are restored, and borne up by the oarage of its wings it commences once more the course of its renewed life, and discharges a debt of gratitude. For it conveys that casket, whether the tomb of its body or the cradle of its resurrection, in which quitting life it died, and dying it rose again, from Ethiopia to Lycaonia; and so by the resurrection of this bird the people of those regions understand that a period of five hundred years is accomplished. So to that bird the five hundredth is the year of resurrection, but to us the thousandth: it has its resurrection in this world, we have ours at the end of the world. Many think also that this bird kindles its own funeral pile, and comes to life again from its own ashes…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Book II ‘On the Belief in the Resurrection’, Point 59 Page 459)
Source:
This is seen even in St. Justin Martyr’s quote below which may point to the ‘Second Resurrection’ for the Wicked to Happen on that Eighth Day (which is after the Righteous’ Sabbath-Seventh-Day-1000 years Millennial Reign Rest of the First Resurrection) as it is implied below:
To Quote:
“… The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first. “Moreover, the prescription that twelve bells be attached to the [robe] of the high priest, which hung down to the feet, was a symbol of the twelve apostles, who depend on the power of Christ, the eternal Priest; and through their voice it is that all the earth has been filled with the glory and grace of God and of His Christ. Wherefore David also says: ‘Their sound has gone forth into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.’ And Isaiah speaks as if he were personating the apostles, when they say to Christ that they believe not in their own report, but in the power of Him who sent them. And so he says: ‘Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child. Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation. And in short, sirs,” said I, “by enumerating all the other appointments of Moses I can demonstrate that they were types, and symbols, and declarations of those things which would happen to Christ, of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him, and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself. But since what I have now enumerated appears to me to be sufficient, I revert again to the order of the discourse.” – St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER XLI & CHAPTER XLII, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Please also notice ‘carefully’ how St. Justin Martyr distinguishes the Church as One Body vs the Wicked converted as ‘One Child’ as two different entities as follows:
“…We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child … and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself …” – St. Justin Martyr
“… Such a thing as you may witness in the body:although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation … of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him,…” – St. Justin Martyr
Please note the popular fallacy (of some) who may think that the ‘wicked referred to in quote above is the Christians before they have repented’. This is a false context as St. Justin’s phrase “… Such a thing as you may witness in the body [of Christ, the Church, implied] …” means that St. Justin is drawing an analogy toward how ‘the Wicked being converted & becoming as One Obedient/Subjected Child’ (in the Second Resurrection of the Eighth Day) is similar to the One Body as how Lord Jesus Christ First Did to His Church (in the First Resurrection during the Seventh-Sabbath Day 1000 years Millennial Reign Time, Aeon-Olam-Age to come). Can you see it?
This agrees Perfectly with the First Resurrection (Seventh Day) and Second Resurrection (Eighth Day) Quote of St. Ambrose of Milan in Point 5) prior. Perhaps the Mystery is Greater than we usually assume it to be.
All Glory to God & Peace and God’s Love to you
Christ Centered Universalism – Epistle of the Apostles and the Odes of Solomon
1) What are these Ancient First Christianity Books?
“… The Epistula Apostolorum (Latin for Letter of the Apostles) is a work from the New Testament apocrypha. Probably dating from the 2nd century CE, it was within the canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, but not rediscovered in the Western world until the early 20th century. In 51 chapters, it takes the form of a letter from the apostles describing key events of the life of Jesus, followed by a dialogue between Jesus and the apostles… ”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistula_Apostolorum
“… The Odes of Solomon is a collection of 42 odes attributed to Solomon. Various scholars have dated the composition of these religious poems to anywhere in the range of the first three centuries AD. The original language of the Odes is thought to have been either Greek or Syriac, and to be generally Christian in background….”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odes_of_Solomon
Many of the Early Christians read & believed both of it.
“… The text was used regularly by the relatively isolated Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and was evidently not considered heretical by that church. The work was lost to the West until a complete version in Ethiopic translation was discovered and published in the early 20th century. A fragmentary Coptic manuscript of the fifth or 4th century, believed to be translated directly from the original Greek, and one leaf of a Latin palimpsest, dating to the 5th century, were then identified as deriving from the same text…”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistula_Apostolorum
and
“… The earliest extant manuscripts of the Odes of Solomon date from around the end of the 3rd and the beginning of the 4th century: the Coptic Pistis Sophia, a Latin quote of a verse of Ode 19 by Lactantius, and the Greek text of Ode 11 in Papyrus Bodmer XI. Before the 18th century, the Odes were only known through Lactantius’ quotation of one verse and their inclusion in two lists of religious literature…”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odes_of_Solomon
They were only rediscovered later so as not to make it in audience with the earlier councils and/or not at Scripture level?
Example:
“… Probably dating from the 2nd century CE, it was within the canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, but not rediscovered in the Western world until the early 20th century…”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistula_Apostolorum
and
“… Before the 18th century, the Odes were only known through Lactantius’ quotation of one verse and their inclusion in two lists of religious literature…”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odes_of_Solomon
“… It is noteworthy that this prophecy ends with a passage which is identical with one quoted by Clement of Alexandria from a source he does not name he does not name – only calling it ‘the Scripture’….”
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apostolorum.html
Please remember that St. Clement of Alexandria Received ‘Apostolic Traditions’ from these well known Early Christians:
“… Clement studied under Pantaenus, and was ordained to the priesthood by Pope Julian before 189… Clement’s journeys were primarily a religious undertaking. In Greece, he encountered an Ionian theologian, who has been identified as Athenagoras of Athens; while in the east, he was taught by an Assyrian, sometimes identified with Tatian, and a Jew, who was possibly Theophilus of Caesarea…”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_of_Alexandria
Please note carefully that St. Clement of Alexandria calls the “Epistle of the Apostles” as ‘Scripture’ something which he calls ‘the Shepherd of Hermas Writing too’ in comparison in his writings.
Note: The “Epistle of the Apostles” identifies the Apostles of Christ themselves as the Collaborative Authors and so I wouldn’t easily say anything Harsh lest I come into unnecessary Judgment (and please note that it probably makes sense as to why St. Clement of Alexandria considers it as ‘Scripture’), to quote:
“… The book which Jesus Christ revealed unto his disciples: and how that Jesus Christ revealed the book for the company (college) of the apostles, the disciples of Jesus Christ, even the book which is for all men… (The book hath been written) that ye may be not flinch nor be troubled, and depart not from the word of the Gospel which ye have heard. Like as we heard it, we keep it in remembrance and have written it for the whole world… We, John, Thomas, Peter, Andrew, James, Philip, Batholomew, Matthew, Nathanael, Judas Zelotes, and Cephas, write unto the churches of the east and the west, of the north and the south, the declaring and imparting unto you that which concerneth our Lord Jesus Christ: we do write according as we have seen and heard and touched him, after that he was risen from the dead: and how that he revealed unto us things mighty and wonderful and true…” (Epistle of the Apostles, Points 1 – 2)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apostolorum.html
“… There are parallels in both style, and theology, between Odes and the writing of Ignatius of Antioch, as well as with the canonical Gospel of John…”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odes_of_Solomon
[Emphasis Mine throughout]
“… He [Lord Jesus Christ] said unto us: Verily I say unto you, that I have obtained the whole power of my Father, that I may bring back into light them that dwell in darkness, them that are in corruption into incorruption, them that are in death into life, and that I may loose them that are in fetters. For that which is impossible with men, is possible with the Father. I am the hope of them that despair, the helper of them that have no saviour, the wealth of the poor, the health of the sick, and the resurrection of the dead…” (Epistle of the Apostles, Point 21)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apostolorum.html
“… Sheol saw me and was shattered, and Death ejected me and many with me. I have been vinegar and bitterness to it, and I went down with it as far as its depth. Then the feet and the head it released, because it was not able to endure my face. And I made a congregation of living among his dead; and I spoke with them by living lips; in order that my word may not be unprofitable. And those who had died ran towards me; and they cried out and said, Son of God, have pity on us. And deal with us according to Your kindness, and bring us out from the bonds of darkness. And open for us the door by which we may come out to You; for we perceive that our death does not touch You. May we also be saved with You, because You are our Savior. Then I heard their voice, and placed their faith in my heart. And I placed my name upon their head, because they are free and they are mine.Hallelujah…” (Odes of Solomon 42:11 – 20)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/odes.html
Note: Hades (Greek) = Sheol (Hebrew) = Hell now (in English)
iii. Bible Verses & First Orthodox Christianity Agreeing to this (Example)
“There were those who dwelt in darkness and in the shadow of death, Prisoners in misery and chains, Because they had rebelled against the words of God and spurned the counsel of the Most High. Therefore He humbled their heart with labor; They stumbled and there was none to help. Then they cried out to the LORD in their trouble; He saved them out of their distresses. He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death and broke their bands apart. Let them give thanks to the LORD for His lovingkindness, And for His wonders to the sons of men!.” (Psalm 107:10 – 15, NASB)
The Phrase ‘Shadow of Death’ in Verses above Prove that this is the ‘Afterlife or Spirit World Context’ and so the Bible Verses above clearly Describe afterlife Salvation toward those wicked (i.e. those who rebelled against God too & went to ‘Hell-Hades’ or ‘Punishment Regions called the Shadow of Death in the above’) as First Christianity taught that this is the Meaning of that Biblical Phrase, to quote:
“… For as the Lord “WENT AWAY in the midst of the SHADOW of DEATH” [Ps. 23:4, Ps 107:10 – 15], WHERE the SOULS of the DEAD were, …” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XXXI:2).
Source: http://www.regels.org/Irenaeus-Millennarism.htm
and
“… Let us twine, as with a wreath, the souls (or selves) [of them that love the festival and love to hearken] 3 with golden blossoms, fain to be crowned with wreaths from the unfading gardens; and offering in our hands the fair-fruited flowers of Christ, let us gather [them]. For the God-like temple of the Holy Virgin is meet to be glorified with such a crown; because the ILLUMINING PEARL cometh forth, to the END that it may RAISE UP AGAIN into the EVER-STREAMING LIGHT THEM that were GONE DOWN into DARKNESS and the SHADOW of DEATH…” – St. Gregory Thaumaturgus, the ‘Miracle-Worker’ (c. 213 AD – c. 270 AD, Point 11, Homily)
Source:
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/gregory_thaumaturgus_homily.htm
More Regarding the ‘Shadow of Death’ Bible Verses in link below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/hells-missed-messianic-prophecy-shadow-of-death/
To quote from the ‘Scripture’ of the ‘Shepherd of Hermas’ that those being Saved in the Spirit World have Some type of ‘Water Baptism’ (either Symbolically or Allegorically) as Mysteriously put in Verse below toward ‘relatively good non-Christians who are dead’:
“15[92]:5 “Wherefore, Sir,” say I, “did the forty stones also come up with them from the deep, though they had already received the seal?” “Because,” saith he, “these, the apostles and the teachers who preached the name of the Son of God, after they had fallen asleep in the power and faith of the Son of God, preached also to them that had fallen asleep before them, and themselves gave unto them the seal of the preaching. 15[92]:6 Therefore they went down with them into the water, and came up again. But these went down alive [and again came up alive]; whereas the others that had fallen asleep before them went down dead and came up alive.” – Shepherd of Hermas
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd-lightfoot.html
Bible Verse for this Context:
“For to this end the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but they might live in the spirit according to God.” – apostle Peter (1 Peter 4:6, Berean Literal Bible)
Question
Am I understanding this correctly, that some won’t be saved? “They received the faith in hypocrisy, and no wickedness was absent from them. Therefore they have not salvation,”
Reply
Please notice the following carefully:
Context = Definition of Saved
Saved = Part of the Tower of Repentance = Being His Church /Bride
Not Saved = not His Church = have not Salvation (referring to ‘not’ being part of the First Resurrection Revelation 20:4 – 6 when He Returns, Matthew 7:21 – 23)
These same rejected unsaved stones are said to be saved in another place more humble eventually, to quote:
“Hermas 7[15]:4 So she finished the explanation of the tower. Hermas 7[15]:5 Still importunate, I asked her further, whether for all these stones that were rejected and would not fit into the building of the tower that was repentance, and they had a place in this tower. “They can repent,” she said, “but they cannot be fitted into this tower. Hermas 7[15]:6 Yet they shall be fitted into another place much more humble, but not until they have undergone torments, and have fulfilled the days of their sins. And they shall be changed for this reason, because they participated in the Righteous Word; and then shall it befall them to be relieved from their torments, if the evil deeds, that they have done, come into their heart; but if these come not into their heart, they are not saved by reason of the hardness of their hearts.”
Source for Translation:
https://carm.org/shepherd-of-hermas
The Judgment Sentences of these Rejected believers turned wicked (‘stones’) is the same as the ‘unbelievers’ too according to Luke 12:46 which is only till the ‘last cent’ (not forever but ‘aeonian’, Luke 12:59 – in Context of Consecutive Verses – Can you see it?) and so if they can repent after their afterlife Judgments, so can the unbelievers too right?
This is clearly demonstrated not just for the Final Gehenna or Lake of Fire Judgment (in Verses above, Luke 12:46 to Luke 12:49-referring to the Lake of Fire. to Luke 12:59) but also in Hades now as the ancient Christian Writings (Quotes – paraphrased above) proves agreeing to 1 Peter 4:6’s Gospel being Preached to the Dead as empirically proven by the reliable modern Christian Witness Sadhu Sundar Singh as quoted in previous posts clearly regarding afterlife Salvation by Christ as ongoing as He Wills.
Conclusion – Lord Jesus Christ is Prophesied to Save from the Lake of Fire or Gehenna itself
How can that be if the Sentence is Eternal?
The Eternal Hell Sentence can be Cancelled by God by His Mercy which Triumphs Over and Ends (any afterlife Judgment Sentence by His Will) as James 2:13 Prophesies.
Really?
Yes, the ‘Scripture’ (as St. Clement of Alexandria calls it) of the “Epistle of the Apostles” Prophesy this End as follows:
“… The heavy laden shall be saved, and they that are gone astray shall go astray for ever. They shall be chastised and tormented in their flesh and in their soul. And we said unto him: O Lord, verily we are sorrowful for their sake. And he said unto us: Ye do rightly, for the righteous are sorry for the sinners, and pray for them, making prayer unto my Father. Again we said unto him: Lord, is there none that maketh intercession unto thee (so Eth.)? And he said unto us: Yea, and I will hearken unto the prayer of the righteous which they make for them…” (Epistle of the Apostles, Coptic, Points 39 – 40)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apostolorum.html
Please notice carefully that those who are said to ‘go astray for ever’ are said to be Saved (implied) after the righteous pray for the sinners and God Answers their Prayers as our Most Blessed Saviour is Quoted to Say, “… Yea, and I will hearken unto the prayer of the righteous which they make for them [wicked]…” who “… shall go astray for ever…” (Matthew 25:46) who first “… shall be chastised and tormented in their flesh and in their soul…” (Matthew 10:28) till the last penny (Matthew 5:20 – 26) because of the ‘Prayer of the Righteous’ as it is Written, “… verily we are sorrowful for their [Wicked’s] sake… for the righteous are sorry for the sinners, and pray for them, making prayer unto my Father … Yea, and I will hearken unto the prayer of the righteous which they make for them…” as in that Special Day it may be granted though it may be ‘ages first’ (John 16:23).
The Above Passage refers to the Salvation Context post-Lake of Fire or the Final Gehenna Judgment as it is quoted below in full for you to see this as well clearly:
“… 39 And we said unto him: Lord, is this thy purpose, that thou leavest us, to come upon them? (Will all this come to pass, Eth.) Hc answered and said unto us: After what manner shall the judgement be? whether righteous or unrighteous? (In Copt. and Eth. the general sense is the same: but the answer of Jesus in the form of a question is odd, and there is probably a corruption.) We said unto him: Lord, in that day they will say unto thee: Thou hast not distinguished between (probably: will they not say unto thee: Thou hast distinguished between) righteousness and unrighteousness, between the light and the darkness, and evil and good? Then said he: I will answer them and say: Unto Adam was power given to choose one of the two: he chose the light and laid his hand thereon, but the darkness he left behind him and cast away from him. Therefore have all men power to believe in the light which is life, and which is the Father that hath sent me. And every one that believeth and doeth the works of the light shall live in them; but if there be any that confesseth that he belongeth unto the light, and doeth the works of darkness, such an one hath no defence to utter, neither can he lift up his face to look upon the Son of God, which Son am I. For I will say unto him: As thou soughtest, so hast thou found, and as thou askedst, so hast thou received. Therefore condemnest thou me, O man? Wherefore hast thou departed from me and denied me? And wherefore hast thou confessed me and yet denied me? hath not every man power to live and to die? Whoso then hath kept my commandments shall be a son of the light, that is, of the Father that is in me. But because of them that corrupt my words am I come down from heaven. I am the word: I became flesh, and I wearied myself (or, suffered) and taught, saying: The heavy laden shall be saved, and they that are gone astray shall go astray for ever. They shall be chastised and tormented in their flesh and in their soul. 40 And we said unto him: O Lord, verily we are sorrowful for their sake. And he said unto us: Ye do rightly, for the righteous are sorry for the sinners, and pray for them, making prayer unto my Father. Again we said unto him: Lord, is there none that maketh intercession unto thee (so Eth.)? And he said unto us: Yea, and I will hearken unto the prayer of the righteous which they make for them…” (Epistle of the Apostles, Coptic, Points 39 – 40 in full)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apostolorum.html
These Ancient Visions of Christ Saving some from Hell now or the rest of mankind from the Lake of Fire later upon the Prayers of His Saved Church (Bride, Christians) agrees Perfectly to other First Christianity Writings such as the Apocalypse of Peter, the Apocalypse of Elijah, Apocalypse of Zephaniah & remarkably to the late Sadhu Sundar Singh’s Spirit World Visions too as discussed in the Previous Post below for further edification:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/amp/
Peace to you
St Augustine of Hippo meets Emmanuel Swedenborg in the Spirit World
7) How about the Respected Eternal Hell Theologian Augustine of Hippo?
Emmanuel Swedenborg claims to have met ‘Augustine of Hippo’ himself during his visits in the ‘spirit world’, to quote:
“… I have several times talked with Augustine, who was bishop of Hippo in Africa, in the third century. He said that he is there at this time, inspiring them with the worship of the Lord, and that there is hope that this new gospel will be extended into the surrounding regions. I have heard the angels rejoicing over that revelation, because through it there is being opened to them a communication with the human rational, hitherto closed up by the universal dogma that the understanding must be kept in obedience to the faith of the ministers of the church.” – Emmanuel Swedenborg
Translation Source:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/swd/tcr/tcr17.htm
Please note that the word heaven here is more accurately “the blessed abodes” as entering “heavens” is only for Christians post-Resurrection as First Christianity taught. The blessed abodes look like some type of heavens and so the word used is as thus.
To quote:
4) Is there any other Reliable Christian Vision of Heaven/Hell agreeing to this HOPE for ‘good’ NON-Christians?
Yes, Emmanuel Swedenborg’s Visions of Heaven & Hell speaks this ‘Same Truth’, to quote:
(i) Regarding the Good Muslims being in the ‘Lower’ Heavens
“The Mohammedans, like all nations who acknowledge one God, love justice and do good from religion, have their own heaven, but it is outside of the Christian heaven. The Mohammedan heaven, however, is divided into two. In the lower they live uprightly with several wives; but only those who give up their concubines and acknowledge the Lord our Savior, and also His dominion over heaven and hell, are raised up from this into their higher heaven. I have heard that it is impossible for them to conceive of God the Father and our Lord as one, but that it is possible for them to believe that the Lord rules over the heavens and the hells because He is the Son of God the Father. It is because of their holding this belief that it is granted them by the Lord to ascend into the higher heaven.” – Emmanuel Swedenborg
Translation Source:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/swd/tcr/tcr17.htm
So, Christian theological errors may be excusable by God’s Mercy probably only reducing Merit/Reward/Spiritual Progress.
Example Posts Discussing these:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/heart-judgment-of-hearts-hope-for-non-christians/amp/
or
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/swedenborg-vs-sadhu-sundar-singh-visions-of-hell-and-heaven/amp/
or
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/heaven-and-hell-visions-real-visits-knowing-in-parts/amp/
Conclusion
Swedenborg is not to be taken lightly as his gift of knowledge (rather than “psychic ability”) is also well recorded apart from his vast abilities & educated influence during his lifetime which you can read in link below, to quote:
“There are three well known incidents of psychic ability reported in literature about Swedenborg.[36] The first was from July 19, 1759, when during a dinner in Gothenburg, he excitedly told the party at six o’clock that there was a fire in Stockholm (405 km away), that it consumed his neighbor’s home and was threatening his own. Two hours later, he exclaimed with relief that the fire stopped three doors from his home. Two days later, reports confirmed every statement to the precise hour that Swedenborg first expressed the information.[37][38]
The second incident occurred in 1758 when Swedenborg visited Queen Louisa Ulrika of Sweden, who asked him to tell her something about her deceased brother Augustus William. The next day, Swedenborg whispered something in her ear that turned the Queen pale and she explained that this was something only she and her brother could know about.[39]
The third event involved a woman who had lost an important document, and came to Swedenborg to help find it, which he did the following night.[40]”
Source:
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Emanuel_Swedenborg
Swedenborg believed that good non-Christians are Saved in the spirit world to their own abodes agreeing to our First Christianity exegesis of say 1 Peter 4:6 likewise by early church leaders as explained in previous posts. Swedenborg believed in eternal hell only for the wicked non-Christians. To quote:
“… Behind these are the places where those are taught who died in adult age, and who in the world had an affection for truth derived from good of life. Again, behind these are those who in the world were connected with the Mohammedan religion, and lived a moral life and acknowledged one Divine, and the Lord as the very Prophet. When these withdraw from Mohammed, because he can give them no help, they approach the Lord and worship him and acknowledge his Divinity, and they are then instructed in the Christian religion. Behind these more to the north are the places of instruction of various heathen nations who in the world have lived a good life in conformity with their religion, and have thereby acquired a kind of conscience, and have done what is just and right not so much from a regard to the laws of their government, as from a regard to the laws of religion, which they believed ought to be sacredly observed, and in no way violated by their doings. When these have been taught they are all easily led to acknowledge the Lord, because it is impressed on their hearts that God is not invisible, but is visible under a human form. These in number exceed all the rest, and the best of them are from Africa. But all are not taught in the same way, nor by the same societies of heaven. Those that have been brought up from childhood in heaven, not having imbibed falsities from the falsities of religion or defiled their spiritual life with the dregs pertaining to honors and riches in the world, receive instruction from the angels of the interior heavens; while those that have died in adult age receive instruction mainly from angels of the lowest heaven, because these angels are better suited to them than the angels of the interior heavens, who are in interior wisdom which is not yet acceptable to them. But the Mohammedans receive instruction from angels who had been previously in the same religion and had been converted to Christianity. The heathen, too, are taught by their angels.”… “All teaching there is from doctrine drawn from the Word, and not from the Word apart from doctrine. Christians are taught from heavenly doctrine, which is in entire agreement with the internal sense of the Word. All others, as the Mohammedans and heathen, are taught from doctrines suited to their apprehension, which differ from heavenly doctrine only in this, that spiritual life is taught by means of moral life in harmony with the good tenets of their religion from which they had derived their life in the world. 517. Instruction in the heavens differs from instruction on earth in that knowledges are not committed to memory, but to life; for the memory of spirits is in their life, for they receive and imbibe everything that is in harmony with their life, and do not receive, still less imbibe, what is not in harmony with it; for spirits are affections, and are therefore in a human form that is similar to their affections. [2] Being such they are constantly animated by an affection for truth that looks to the uses of life; for the Lord provides for everyone’s loving the uses suited to his genius; and that love is exalted by the hope of becoming an angel. And as all the uses of heaven have relation to the general use, which is the good of the Lord’s kingdom, which in heaven is the fatherland, and as all special and particular uses are to be valued in proportion as they more closely and fully have regard to that general use, so all of these special and particular uses, which are innumerable, are good and heavenly; therefore in everyone an affection for truth is so conjoined with an affection for use that the two make one; and thereby truth is so implanted in use that the truths they acquire are truths of use. In this way are angelic spirits taught and prepared for heaven…” – Emmanuel Swedenborg (Pages 426 – 427, ‘Heaven and Hell’)
Source:
https://swedenborg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/swedenborg_foundation_heaven_and_hell.pdf
In comparison, Sadhu Sundar Singh believed in Christ Centered Universalism for all mankind by the end of his mysterious disappearance into the Himalayas in 1929 never to be seen again as detailed in posts below with proofs:
Sadhu Sundar Singh
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/secrets-beyond-hell-sadhu-sundar-singh/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/deep-secrets-visions-of-hell-being-not-eternal/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/sadhu-sundar-singh-on-hell/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/the-truth-on-hell-by-the-vision-of-sadhu-sundar-singh/
Note: Swedenborg is often misunderstood to teach as though the saved ones become angels. What he actually means is that the saved-human-souls (righteous) become almost indistinguishable being almost alike to the respective angels of God at that realm/abode something which Sadhu Sundar Singh explained in his visions likewise which can be read in their own writings by yourself in the links provided.
Peace to you
Christ Centered Universalism via Afterlife Evangelism in St. Cyril of Alexandria
Modern Christianity has strange explanations for 1 Peter 4:6 which evidently only came in a later time (e. g. in St. Augustine, which you can read in link below in full too). However, First Christianity by the earliest and most orthodox leaders testify otherwise to Christ’s First Descent into Hades (Hell, 1 Peter 3:18 – 19) and Its continuance thereafter through His Apostles too (1 Peter 4:6) as these “Bible Verses” mean literally too.
So, the impossibilities which “Abraham mentioned” (not Lord Jesus Christ, please take note carefully) regarding the Rich Man in Hell (Hades, in Luke 16:19 – 31) were all “Solved” by Lord Jesus Christ Himself as First Christianity in Apostolic Tradition with these “Bible Verses” testify clearly. Abraham mentioned the impossibilities such as “no one can cross the chasm and go over to Hell (Punishment Compartment of Hades)” which is true at that time because Lord Jesus Christ hasn’t Died nor Resurrected yet but Christ Victoriously Overcame this Impossibility as Christ’s First Descent in 1 Peter 3:18 – 19 Itself Reveals Majestically.
Okay, enough of me explaining it which has no authority. Herewith I quote a Saint in First Christianity who endorses this Astounding Truth even more than I who is accepted by ‘all mainstream Denominations as a Teacher of the True Faith in Ancient Christianity’.
After reading his quotes below, I realized how accurate Sadhu Sundar Singh’s Visions of Hell are in regards to what he wrote (as described in an earlier post). Wow. At most, “Most” people will believe in the afterlife and be Saved (‘believing after seeing Him’, John 6:40) being Purged there (Daniel 12:10) with probably very few only being cast into the Lake of Fire during the Final Judgment (the most wicked ones). So, these quotes by St. Cyril of Alexandria itself proves that he believed either in ‘almost all mankind will be saved eventually or all of them’ as his quotes seem to use the word “all” referring to human beings (interestingly) as the ‘final outcome’ (probably implied to be achieved after Gehenna or the Final Lake of Fire too in Principle of Judgment though it may not be Written explicitly but in Principle, implied).
To quote:
“… The doctrine of the descent of Christ into Hades occupies an essential place in the works of Cyril of Alexandria. In his ‘Paschal Homilies’, he repeatedly mentions that as a consequence of the descent of Christ into Hades, the devil was left all alone, while hell was devastated: ‘For having destroyed hell and opened the impassable gates for the departed spirits, He left the devil there abandoned and lonely’[19].
In his ‘Festive Letters’, Cyril of Alexandria elaborates on the theme of the preaching of Christ in Hades, popular in the Alexandrian tradition since Clement. He views the preaching of Christ in hell as the accomplishment of the ‘history of salvation’, which began with the Incarnation:
…He showed the way to salvation not only to us, but also to the spirits in hell; having descended, He preached to those once disobedient, as Peter says[20].
For it did not befit for love of man to be partial, but the manifestation of [this] gift should have been extended to all nature… Having preached to these spirits in hell and having said ‘go forth’ to the prisoners, and ‘show yourselves’[21] to those in prison on the third day, He resurrected His temple and again opens up to our nature the ascent to heaven, bringing Himself to the Father as the beginning of humanity, pledging to those on earth the grace of communion of the Spirit[22].
As we can see, Cyril emphasises the universality of the salvation given by Christ to humanity, perceiving the descent of Christ into Hades as salvific for the entire human race. He is not inclined to limit salvation to a particular part of humanity, such as the Old Testament righteous. Salvation is likened to rain sent by God on both the just and the unjust[23].
Putting emphasis on the universality of the saving feat of Christ, Cyril follows in the steps of other Alexandrian theologians, beginning with Clement, Origen, and Athanasius the Great[24].
The descent of Christ into Hades, according to Cyril’s teaching, signified victory over that which previously appeared unconquerable and ensured the salvation of all humanity.
Death unwilling to be defeated is defeated; corruption is transformed; unconquerable passion is destroyed. While hell, diseased with excessive insatiability and never satisfied with the dead, is taught, even if against its will, that which it could not learn previously. For it not only ceases to claim those who are still to fall [in the future], but also lets free those already captured, being subjected to splendid devastation by the power of our Saviour… Having preached to the spirits in hell, once disobedient, He came out as conqueror by resurrecting His temple like a beginning of our hope and by showing to [our]nature the manner of the raising from the dead, and giving us along with it other blessings as well[25].
Clearly, Cyril perceived the victory of Christ over hell and death as complete and definitive. According to Cyril, hell loses authority both over those who were in its power and those who are to become its prey in the future. Thus, the descent into Hades, a single and unique action, is perceived as a timeless event. The raised body of Christ becomes the guarantee of universal salvation, the beginning of way leading human nature to ultimate deification.
An elaborate teaching of the descent of Christ into Hades is found in Maximus the Confessor. In his analysis, Maximus takes as a starting point the words of St. Peter: ‘For this cause was the Gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit’[26].
In Maximus’s view, St. Peter does not speak about the Old Testament righteous, but about those sinners who, back in their lifetime, were punished for their evil deeds:
Some say that Scriptures call ‘dead’ those who died before the coming of Christ, for instance, those who were at the time of the flood, at Babel, in Sodom, in Egypt, as well as others who in various times and in various ways received various punishments and the terrible misfortune of divine damnation. These people were punished not so much for their ignorance of God as for the offences they imposed on one another.
It was to them, according to [St Peter] that the great message of salvation was preached when they were already damned as men in the flesh, that is, when they received, through life in the flesh, punishment for crimes against one another, so that they could live according to God by the spirit, that is, being in hell, they accepted the preaching of the knowledge of God, believing in the Saviour who descended into hell to save the dead. So, in order to understand [this] passage in [Holy Scriptures] let us take it in this way: the dead, damned in the human flesh, were preached to precisely for the purpose that they may live according to God by the spirit[27].
Thus, according to Maximus’s teaching, punishments suffered by sinners ‘in the human flesh’ were necessary so that they may live ‘according to God by the spirit’. Therefore, these punishments, whether troubles and misfortunes in their lifetime or pains in hell, had pedagogical and reforming significance. Moreover, Maximus stresses that in damning them, God used not so much a religious as a moral criterion, for people were punished ‘not so much for their ignorance of God as for the offences they imposed on one another’. In other words, the religious or ideological convictions of a particular person were not decisive, but his actions with regard to his neighbours….” (Pages 3 and 4 by in the PDF as uploaded by a St. James Orthodox Church, link below):
Source for the Quote & Write Up above:
https://stjamesorthodox.org/files/articles/Bishop-Hilarion—Christ-the-Conqueror-of-Hades.pdf
[19] 7th Paschal Homily 2 (PG 77, 552 A).
[20] Cf. 1 Pet. 3:19?20.
[21] Is. 49:9.
[22] 2nd Festive Letter 8, 52?89 (SC 372, 228?232)
[23] Cf. Mt. 5:45. See the same comparison in ‘Spiritual Homilies’ by Macarius of Egypt.
[24] See above quotations from these authors
[25] 5th Festive Letter 1, 29?40 (SC 732, 284).
[26] 1 Pet. 4:6.
[27] Questions-answers to Thalassius 7
Comment:
I quoted St. Maximus the Confessor together with the legendary St. Cyril of Alexandria because in eastern orthodox standards, St. Maximus who came later is often the yardstick of ‘what is considered orthodox doctrine & not’ where it is not uncommon for Christ Centered Universalism supporting scholars to quote that he ‘honored that Mystery in silence’ and in retrospect his teaching on the final hell of Gehenna/Lake of Fire may be viewed likewise only toward who refuse to repent in the afterlife before the Last Day approaches (John 6:40) which makes it “fair”.
I repeat, as discussed in earlier posts, that “being saved” does not mean full rewards and the Christian Salvation only is with Deification of Christ with Highest Rewards of Heavens while the rest won’t be allowed to the heavens post-Resurrection but to some earthly or other abodes accordingly as God Wills.
Firstly who is St. Maximus the Confessor?
“Maximus the Confessor (Greek: Μάξιμος ὁ Ὁμολογητής), also known as Maximus the Theologian and Maximus of Constantinople (c. 580 – 13 August 662), was a Christian monk, theologian, and scholar. He is Venerated in Eastern Orthodox Church, Roman Catholic Church, Anglican Communion, Lutheranism.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximus_the_Confessor
Who is St. Cyril of Alexandria? Is he reliable to be teaching Ancient Apostolic Tradition?
To quote:
“Venerated in Latin Christianity, Eastern Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, Lutheranism”
And
“Title as Saint: The Pillar of Faith; Seal of all the Fathers; Bishop, Confessor, and Doctor of the Church”.
And
“Cyril of Alexandria (Greek: Κύριλλος Ἀλεξανδρείας; c. 376 – 444) was the Patriarch of Alexandria from 412 to 444.”
And
“St. Cyril received an important recognition of his preachings by the Second Council of Constantinople (553 d.C.) which declared: St. Cyril who announced the right faith of Christians” (Anathematism XIV, Denzinger et Schoenmetzer 437).”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria
Note: “Paschal” or “Pascha” means “Passover” and it refers to the “Resurrection of Lord Jesus Christ”
Conclusion
The ‘later theologians’ opposing it without being able to prove a succession of apostolic Tradition from where they got such a rebuttal apart from themselves mean little. Also, if you Preach like St. Cyril of Alexandria or St. Maximus the Confessor (or more recently, Sadhu Sundar Singh from modern Christianity), it will be okay too since we (myself and most orthodox Christians till today) are pretty sure that say ‘St. Cyril of Alexandria is not going to be unsaved nor lose any of his reward for Preaching it’, so no worries & All Glory to Lord Jesus Christ the Most Blessed Incarnated in Flesh and Revealer of Mysteries.
So, please don’t easily call those who Preach this Ancient Truth in Accordance to Holy Scripture as it is Written and with Apostolic Tradition Testifying to it as ‘heretics’. Let us be Gentle and Realize that “nothing is Impossible with God”.
Peace to you
Hades – Hell Hope for Good Non-Christians via Prophet Zephaniah
1) Should Christians Read it?
There was an ancient Writing of Prophet Zephaniah’s Visit into Hades (Hell compartments and Regions of Comfort) agreeing to Lord Jesus Christ’s Story of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19 – 31).
It was lost for centuries but St. Clement of Alexandria* seems to have had it as he quotes Prophet Zephaniah as follows in his infamous “Stromata Book Series” in a quote not found in the Old Testament Zephaniah:
“… Rightly, then, in the great Epistle he says: “For it is not capable of expression, like other branches of study. But as the result of great intimacy with this subject, and living with it, a sudden light, like that kindled by a coruscating fire, arising in the soul, feeds itself.” Are not these statements like those of Zephaniah the prophet? “And the Spirit of the Lord took me, and brought me up to the fifth heaven, and I beheld angels called Lords; and their diadem was set on in the Holy Spirit; and each of them had a throne sevenfold brighter than the light of the rising sun; and they dwelt in temples of salvation, and hymned the ineffable, Most High God.”…” – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 5, Chapter XI)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book5.html
Who is St. Clement of Alexandria? Link below:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_of_Alexandria
2) Was it Written by Jews or Christians?
It was probably a Vision of Prophet Zephaniah himself as St. Clement of Alexandria clearly quotes a mysterious passage of Prophet Zephaniah which is not in the Bible but could be in this discovered Manuscript as shown above. Most of its contents may be lost but the few fragments which were discovered recently give great insight into First Christianity, to quote:
“… The Apocalypse of Zephaniah (or Apocalypse of Sophonias) is a 1st-century pseudepigraphic Jewish text attributed to the Biblical Zephaniah and so associated with the Old Testament, but not regarded as scripture by Jews or any Christian group. It was rediscovered and published at the end of the 19th century… The existence of the Apocalypse of Zephaniah was known from ancient texts (for example the Stichometry of Nicephorus) but it was considered lost. In 1881 two fragmentary manuscripts, probably coming from the White Monastery in Egypt, were bought by the Bibliothèque Nationale of Paris and first published by U. Bouriant in 1885… At the second trumpet, the heavens are opened and Zephaniah sees the sinful souls (which are given body and hair) tormented in a sea of flame until the day when the Lord will judge. He sees also a multitude of saints praying in intercession for those in these torments. The last trumpet mentioned in the fragments prepares for the announcement that the Lord will rise up in his wrath to destroy the earth and the heavens… It clearly distinguishes between the personal judgment occurring immediately after death and the final judgment by the Lord… Souls enter bliss or punishment immediately after the first judgment, while waiting for the Lord’s coming, but the intercession of the saints makes it possible that, for some, punishment may not be definitive…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_of_Zephaniah
3) Content for the Apocalypse of Zephaniah
Each quote below is from the translation source in link below:
The 1st trumpet: triumph & visitation of the righteous.
“… 91Then a great angel came forth having a golden trumpet in his hand, and he blew it three times over my head, saying, “Be courageous! O one who hath triumphed. Prevail! O one who hath prevailed. For thou hast triumphed over the accuser, and thou hast escaped from the abyss and Hades. 2Thou wilt now cross over the crossing place. For thy name is written in the Book of the Living.” 3I wanted to embrace him, (but) I was unable to embrace the great angel because his glory is great. 4Then he ran to all the righteous ones, namely, Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and Enoch and Elijah and David. 5He spoke with them as friend to friend speaking one with another…” – Apocalypse of Zephaniah (aft 100 B.C. & bef A.D. 70)
A 2nd trumpet: opening of heaven & souls in torment.
“… 101Then the great angel came to me with the golden trumpet in his hand, and he blew it up unto heaven. 2Heaven opened from the place where the sun rises to where it sets, from the north to the south. 3I saw the sea which I had seen at the bottom of Hades. Its waves came up to the clouds. 4I saw all the souls sinking in it. I saw some whose hands were bound to their neck, with their hands and feet being fettered. 5I said, “Who are these?” He said unto me, “These are the ones who were bribed and they were given gold and silver until the souls of men were led astray.” 6And I saw others covered with mats of fire. 7I said, “Who are these?” He said unto me, “These are the ones who give money at interest, and they receive interest for interest.” …” – Apocalypse of Zephaniah (aft 100 B.C. & bef A.D. 70)
iii) Purgatory for Backslidden Christians
“.. 8And I also saw some blind ones crying out. And I was amazed when I saw all these works of God. 9I said, “Who are these?” He said unto me, “These are catechumens who heard the word of God, but they were not perfected in the work which they heard.” 10And I said unto him, “Then have they not repentance here?” He said, “Yes,” 11I said, “How long?” He said unto me, “Until the day when the Lord will judge.” 12And I saw others with their hair on them. 13I said, “Then there is hair and body in this place?” 14He said, “Yes, the Lord gives body and hair to them as he desires.”…” – Apocalypse of Zephaniah (aft 100 B.C. & bef A.D. 70)
The intercession of the saints for those in torment.
“… 111And I also saw multitudes. He brought them forth. 2As they looked at all of the torments they called out, praying before the Lord Almighty, saying, “We pray unto Thee on account of those who are in all these torments so that Thou might have mercy on all of them.” 3And when I saw them, I said to the angel who spoke with me, “<Who are these?>” 4He said, “These who beseech the Lord are Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. 5Then at a certain hour daily they come forth with the great angel. He soundeth a trumpet up unto heaven and another soundeth upon the earth. 6All the righteous hear the sound. They come running, praying to the Lord Almighty daily on behalf of these who are in all these torments.”…” – Apocalypse of Zephaniah (aft 100 B.C. & bef A.D. 70)
Another trumpet: the coming wrath of God.
“… 121And again the great angel cometh forth with the golden trumpet in his hand blowing over the earth. 2They hear (it) from the place of the sunrise to the place of the sunset and from the southern regions to the northern regions. 3And again he blows (it) up unto heaven and its sound is heard. 4I said, “O Lord, why left thou me not until I saw them all?” 5He said unto me, “I have not authority to show them unto thee until the Lord Almighty riseth up in his wrath to destroy the earth and the heavens. 6They will see and be disturbed, and they will all cry out, saying, ‘All flesh which is ascribed to Thee we will give unto Thee on the day of the Lord.’ 7Who will stand in His presence when He riseth in His wrath <to destroy> the earth <and the heavens?> 8Every tree which groweth upon the earth will be plucked up with its roots and fall down. And every high tower and the birds which fly will fall … ” – Apocalypse of Zephaniah (aft 100 B.C. & bef A.D. 70)
4) Why is it not in the Bible?
It was lost and only rediscovered in the 19th century. Apart from St. Clement of Alexandria possibly mentioning it, it may not have been known by some of them or it may have not been scrutinized by early councils or they can’t reach a consensus to it. So, we keep an open mind.
Conclusion
Interestingly, the Concept of the Righteous Praying for the Salvation of the “Unsaved” to be Saved from Hades is existent in this Text as it was practiced in First Christianity as discussed in a Previous Post too (link below for full reading) which agrees to St. Cyril of Alexandria’s quotes that Post-Mortem evangelization still goes on (based on 1 Peter 4:6, as discussed with First Christianity References by the Infamous ArchBishop Hilarion, book in image) endorsing even Sadhu Sundar Singh’s visions of Post-Mortem Salvation toward some in Hades (Hell now) as true as well (links below too):
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/the-truth-on-hell-by-the-vision-of-sadhu-sundar-singh/amp/
From the Biography:
https://archive.org/stream/themessageofsadh00streuoft/themessageofsadh00streuoft_djvu.txt
or some ‘relatively good non-Christian idolater or atheist saved in Hades/afterlife’ as some of Sundar Singh’s Visions show in link below:
Further Reading on this Topic:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/amp/
Peace to you
All Men Mystery in First Christianity from Ambrose to Jerome to Hilary – Believers and Unbelievers Saved?
Yes, to quote (it doesn’t get plainer than this – How did First Christianity understand the Context for John 12:32 and 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28?):
“… and “I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will DRAW ALL men UNTO ME.” [John 12:32] Christ then is subject to the Father in the faithful; for ALL BELIEVERS, NAY the WHOLE HUMAN RACE, are accounted MEMBERS of HIS BODY. But in UNBELIEVERS, that is in JEWS, HEATHENS, and HERETICS, He is said to be NOT SUBJECT; for these members of His body are NOT SUBJECT to the FAITH. But in the END of the world when ALL HIS MEMBERS shall SEE CHRIST, that is their own body, reigning, THEY ALSO shall be MADE SUBJECT to Christ, that is to their own body, that the whole of Christ’s body may be subject unto God and the Father, and that God may be ALL in ALL [1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28]. He does not say “that the Father may be all in all” but that “God” may be, a title which properly belongs to the Trinity and may be referred not only to the Father but also to the Son and to the Holy Ghost. His meaning therefore is “that HUMANITY may be SUBJECT to the GODHEAD.” By HUMANITY we here intend not that gentleness and kindness which the Greeks call philanthropy but the WHOLE HUMAN RACE ….” – St. Jerome of the Vulgate, Second Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 347 AD – c. 420 AD, Letter LV TO AMANDUS, Point 5, Written about the year 394 A. D.)
Source:
http://www.annussacerdotalis.org/clerus/dati/2001-02/17-999999/Lett.html
[Emphasis Mine]
In John 12:32, the Greek Word is “All” and not “All Men”, proving a stronger Case for “All Creation” Universalism but it is quoted here by St. Jerome for the Focus of “All Men” = Salvation of “All Humanity” where believers are a special subset (1 Timothy 4:10), in his words above,
“… DRAW ALL men UNTO ME.” [John 12:32] … for ALL BELIEVERS, NAY the WHOLE HUMAN RACE, are accounted MEMBERS of HIS BODY. But in UNBELIEVERS, that is in JEWS, HEATHENS, and HERETICS, … for these members of His body are NOT SUBJECT to the FAITH. But in the END of the world … reigning, THEY ALSO shall be MADE SUBJECT to Christ, … that the whole of Christ’s body may be subject unto God and the Father, and that God may be ALL in ALL [1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28]. … His meaning therefore is “that HUMANITY may be SUBJECT to the GODHEAD.” By HUMANITY we here intend not … which the Greeks call philanthropy but the WHOLE HUMAN RACE…” – St. Jerome of the Vulgate
Please note that being Saved does not mean that unbelievers get to the “heavens” but only to their appropriate abodes be it even outside of the Great City as the Book of Revelation Reveals but there may be common grounds on Earth or elsewhere where “All Men” may meet & Worship God together as it is Prophesied and Written in Many Verses of the Bible as also discussed in Previous Posts.
Conclusion – St. Jerome seems to have Renounced Christ Centered Universalism to Rome (to keep a good name there) but Maintained it Personally especially whenever he is in contact with the Bishops of the East (as this letter shows)
In other words, St. Jerome is clearly showing in quote above that this is the True Doctrine of the Christian Church from Ancient Times (as he writes thus whenever he is not threatened by Rome’s excommunication pressure). People only speak the Truth about what they believe when there is no political or religious pressure or a threat of excommunication if they spoke otherwise.
At this point of time, Rome was getting powerful politically with St. Augustine leading their theological front (who was converted by St. Ambrose of Milan) where between St. Ambrose and St. Augustine itself, it is obvious that the former believed in Christ Centered Universalism (St. Ambrose*) while the latter in eternal hell (St. Augustine, who even confessed to this truth later in his confessions**). Can you see it?
This was the Time when Eternal Hell Doctrine was replacing the True First Orthodox Christian Doctrine of Christ Centered Universalism as St. Jerome of the Vulgate (in quote above, who did the first translation of the Bible outside of its Original Languages, the Church’s Best Bible Expert at that Time) also testifies that this Doctrine is not his personal opinion but was the Mainstream Doctrine as ‘the same explanation above’ was even Taught by the Infamous Latin Area Saint (another Major Saint), St. Hilary of Poictiers which is seen when St. Jerome quotes this passage in full as follows:
“… Your third and last question relates to the passage in the same epistle where the apostle in discussing the resurrection, comes to the words: “for he must reign, till he hath put all things under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him that God may be all in all.” [1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28] I am surprised that you have resolved to question me about this passage when that reverend man, Hilary, bishop of Poictiers, has occupied the eleventh book of his treatise against the Arians with a full examination and explanation of it. Yet I may at least say a few words. The chief stumbling-block in the passage is that the Son is said to be subject to the Father. Now which is the more shameful and humiliating, to be subject to the Father (often a mark of loving devotion as in the psalm “truly my soul is subject unto God”) or to be crucified and made the curse of the cross? For “cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree.” If Christ then for our sakes was made a curse that He might deliver us from the curse of the law, are you surprised that lie is also for our sakes subject to the Father to make us too subject to Him as He says in the gospel: “No man cometh unto the Father but by me,” and “I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.” Christ then is subject to the Father in the faithful; for all believers, nay the whole human race, are accounted members of His body. But in unbelievers, that is in Jews, heathens, and heretics, He is said to be not subject; for these members of His body are not subject to the faith. But in the end of the world when all His members shall see Christ, that is their own body, reigning, they also shall be made subject to Christ, that is to their own body, that the whole of Christ’s body may be subject unto God and the Father, and that God may be all in all. He does not say “that the Father may be all in all” but that “God” may be, a title which properly belongs to the Trinity and may be referred not only to the Father but also to the Son and to the Holy Ghost. His meaning therefore is “that humanity may be subject to the Godhead.” By humanity we here intend not that gentleness and kindness which the Greeks call philanthropy but the whole human race. Moreover when he says “that God may be all in all,” it is to be taken in this sense. At present our Lord and Saviour is not all in all, but only a part in each of us. For instance He is wisdom in Solomon, generosity in David, patience in Job, knowledge of things to come in Daniel faith in Peter, zeal in Phinehas and Paul, virginity in John, and other virtues in others. But when the end of all things shall come, then shall He be all in all, for then the saints shall severally possess all the virtues and all will possess Christ in His entirety….” – St. Jerome of the Vulgate, Second Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 347 AD – c. 420 AD, Letter LV TO AMANDUS, Point 5, Written about the year 394 A. D.)
Source:
http://www.annussacerdotalis.org/clerus/dati/2001-02/17-999999/Lett.html
Comment: In his quote below from the above, St. Jerome clearly implies that St. Hilary Poictiers (c. 300 AD – c. 367 AD, also a “Doctor of the Church”, link for list below) clearly believed in the same Christ Centered Universalism argument Presented here though such writing of his may be ‘lost’ today, to quote this part:
“… I am surprised that you have resolved to question me about this passage when that reverend man, Hilary, bishop of Poictiers, has occupied the eleventh book of his treatise against the Arians with a full examination and explanation of it. …” – St. Jerome of the Vulgate
Link for that “Doctor of the Church” list:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_the_Church
P/S: St. Ambrose of Milan vs St. Augustine of Hippo
*St. Ambrose of Milan’s Christ Centered Universalism may be seen in his many quotes as discussed in detail in link below for example:
“… 119. Now let the Manichaean have his word. “I hold that the devil is the creator of our flesh.” The Lord will answer him: “What, then, doest thou in the heavenly places? Depart, go thy way to thy creator. ‘My will is that they be with Me, whom my Father hath given Me.’ Thou, Manichaean, holdest thyself for a creature of the devil; hasten, then, to his abode, the place of fire and brimstone, where the fire thereof is not quenched, lest ever the punishment have an end.” … 123 . What verdict do we look for from Christ? That do I know. Do I say, what verdict will He give? Nay, He hath already pronounced sentence. We have it in our hands. “Let all,” saith He, “honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son, honoreth not the Father, Who hath sent Him. ” 124. If the sentence please you not, appeal to the Father, CANCEL the JUDGMENT that the Father hath given. … For HE is the FOUNDATION of ALL, and is the head of the Church, in Whom our common nature according to the flesh has merited the right to the heavenly throne. For the flesh is honored as having a share in Christ Who is God, and the nature of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE is HONORED as HAVING a SHARE in the FLESH . As we then sit in Him by fellowship in our fleshly nature, so also He, Who through the assumption of our flesh was made a curse for us (seeing that a curse could not fall upon the blessed Son of God), so, I say, He through the OBEDIENCE of ALL will become subject in us; when the GENTILE has BELIEVED, and the JEW has ACKNOWLEDGED Him Whom he CRUCIFIED; when the MANICHAEN has WORSHIPED Him, Whom he has NOT BELIEVED to have come in the flesh; when the ARIAN has CONFESSED Him to be Almighty, Whom HE has DENIED; when, lastly, the wisdom of God, His justice, peace, love, RESURRECTION, is IN ALL. Through His own works and through the manifold forms of virtues Christ will be in us in subjection to the Father. And when, with VICE RENOUNCED and CRIME at an END, one spirit in the HEART of ALL PEOPLES has begun to cleave to God in all things, then will God be ALL and in ALL …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Book II Chapter 13 Point 119 Page 572, Chapter 14 Points 123 – 124 Page 575, Book V Chapter 14 Point 180 – Point 181 Page 725)
Source:
The Above are all within a Same Book/Writing as this same quotes & chronology can also be seen literally in Source below too:
http://www.storyofasoul.com/resources/christianfaith.html
So, it is clear that St. Ambrose Speaks of a Punishment without end at the Beginning toward a Manichæan Heretics who may NOT be admitted into the ‘Heavens-type of Salvation’ (Matthew 5:19) but may be SAVED into his appropriate abode after the APPEAL to CANCEL the JUDGMENT Sentence by HIS MERCY (James 2:13) which will eventually happen just before God becomes ALL in ALL (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28) ‘after they CONFESS that JESUS is LORD’ too (Philippians 2:11, 1 Corinthians 12:3) HONORING God the Father & Son as Required in the END as the quotes above prove clearly, to quote (‘highlight’):
“… Now let the Manichaean have his word … Thou, Manichaean, holdest thyself for a creature of the devil; hasten, then, to his abode, the place of fire and brimstone, where the fire thereof is not quenched, lest ever the punishment have an end … If the sentence please you not, appeal to the Father, CANCEL the JUDGMENT that the Father hath given … For HE is the FOUNDATION of ALL … For the flesh is honored as having a share in Christ Who is God, and the nature of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE is HONORED as HAVING a SHARE in the FLESH … I say, He through the OBEDIENCE of ALL will become subject in us; … when the MANICHAEN has WORSHIPED Him, Whom he has NOT BELIEVED to have come in the flesh … when, lastly, the wisdom of God, His justice, peace, love, RESURRECTION, is IN ALL. … And when, with VICE RENOUNCED and CRIME at an END, one spirit in the HEART of ALL PEOPLES has begun to cleave to God in all things, then will God be ALL and in ALL …” – Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, emphasized from the quote above)
Please note carefully that this agrees with the Ancient Exegesis that the ‘Eternal Hell Sentence with no end’ can be CANCELLED by God’s MERCY which TRIUMPHS over JUDGMENT (James 2:13) by Lord Jesus Christ eventually till God becomes ALL in ALL post ALLEGIANCE CONFESSION to Him (Philippians 2:11, 1 Corinthians 12:3) as the Spirit (God) and Bride (Church) call out to such thirsty-ones (unsaved ones from the Lake of Fire as the ‘fire causes thirst spiritually too’ in Revelation 22:17) to Partake the Water of Life Freely (implying their Salvation eventually) agreeing to the Ancient Prophecies of the Christian Sibyline Oracles & even the Apocalypse of Peter & Apocalypse of Elijah too as discussed in detail in posts such as the one below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/
**St. Augustine of Hippo himself confessed that even during his time, the “majority, VERY MANY” (in Roman province or areas) believed in the First Christianity’s Christ Centered Universalism.
Similarly, the Champion of Eternal Hell Theolgy, St. Augustine of Hippo himself called the believers of ‘Christ Centered Universalism’ as ‘Tender Hearted and not heretics’. In fact, he even said that ‘Christian Universalist believers do NOT deny Holy Scripture’ meaning that these cannot be labelled as heretics by even these ‘first eternal hell orthodoxy standards’.
No latter council or Christian authority after that should condemn those among their congregation who embrace this larger hope as well in accordance with the Scriptures.
Please note carefully that both St. Basil the Great and St. Augustine of Hippo knew of Christ Centered Universalism in their regions itself as a ‘most likely majority doctrine’ proving that Christ Centered Universalism was the Majority Belief in First Christianity, to quote:
“The mass of men (Christians) say there is to be an end to punishment and to those who are punished.” — St. Basil the Great (c. 329 AD – c. 379 AD)
Source:
https://www.mercyuponall.org/tag/church-fathers/
“There are very many in our day, who though not denying the Holy Scriptures, do not believe in endless torments.” — Augustine (354-430 A.D.)
Source:
https://www.mercyuponall.org/tag/church-fathers/
iii. A Neutral Well Known Religious Encyclopedia
“According to the New Schaff–Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (1912), over the first five hundred years of Christian history there are records of at least six theological schools: Four of these schools were Universalist (one each in Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa–Nisibis), one taught conditional immortality (in Ephesus), and the last taught eternal hell (in Carthage or Rome).”
Source:
The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge. New York, London: Funk and Wagnalls Company. 12: 96.
Is it dangerous to philosophize on these Topics especially if hell is eternal or not?
No, not at all according to this Ancient Orthodox Quote from First Christianity Timeline too, to quote:
“Philosophize about the world or worlds; about matter; about soul; about natures endowed with reason, good or bad; about resurrection, about judgment, about reward, or the Sufferings of Christ. For in these subjects to hit the mark is not useless, and to miss it is not dangerous.” –St. Gregory the Theologian (Oration 27)
All Glory to God in Flesh, the Most Blessed Incarnated One, Lord Jesus Christ!
Peace to you
All Creation Born Again Universalism in Christ by St. Ambrose of Milan
What is the Full Context of Understanding Romans 8:19 – 22 Correctly as per First Christianity?
“… But in the faith of the Church one and the same is both Son of God the Father and Son of David. For the mystery of the Incarnation of God is the salvation of the whole of creation, according to that which is written: “That without God He should taste death for every man;” that is, that every creature might be redeemed without any suffering at the price of the blood of the Lord’s Divinity, as it stands elsewhere: “Every creature shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption.” …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Book V, Chapter 8, Point 105, Page 703)
Source:
I repeat the quote above with Emphasis:
“… But in the FAITH of the CHURCH ONE and the same is both Son of God the Father and Son of David. For the MYSTERY of the INCARNATION of God is the SALVATION of the WHOLE of CREATION, according to that which is WRITTEN: “That without God He should taste death for EVERY MAN;” that is, that EVERY CREATURE might be REDEEMED without any suffering at the price of the blood of the Lord’s Divinity, as it stands elsewhere: “EVERY CREATURE shall be DELIVERED from the BONDAGE of CORRUPTION [of Sin, Romans 8:21 – 22].” …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD)
Did St. Ambrose really refer to “All Creation” in Romans 8:21 – 22?
Yes, even in Mark 16:15 it is “all creation” in the Context of ‘nothing that was made by Him is excluded’ from His Incarnation which makes All [Created] things New eventually (Revelation 21:8), to quote:
“… We have yet to confute another blasphemy, and to show that the Son of God is not a created being. Herein is the quickening word that we read as our help, for we have heard the passage read where the Lord saith: “Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel to all creation.” [Mark 16:15] He Who saith “ALL CREATION ” EXCEPTS NOTHING. How, then, do they stand who call Christ a “creature”? If He were a creature, could He have commanded that the Gospel should be preached to Himself? It is not, therefore, a creature, but the Creator, Who commits to His disciples the work of teaching created beings. Christ, then, is no created being; for “created beings are,” as the Apostle hath said, “given over to vanity.” Is Christ given over unto vanity? Again, “creation” — according to the same Apostle — “groans and travails together even until now.” [Romans 8:21 – 22] What, then? Doth Christ take any part in this groaning and travailing — He Who hath set us miserable mourners free from death? “Creation,” saith the Apostle, “shall be set free from the slavery of corruption.” [Romans 8:21 – 22] We see, then, that between creation and its Lord there is a vast difference for creation is enslaved, but “the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.” Who was it that led first into this error, of declaring Him Who created and made all things to be a creature? Did the Lord, I would ask, create Himself? We read that “all things were made by Him, and without Him was nothing made” ….” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Exposition of the Christian Faith Book I, Chapter 14, Points 86 – 88, Pages 519 – 520)
Source:
Comment:
The phrase “all creation” (exists in Romans 8:21 – 22) which is Promised to be ‘set free into the Liberty (from corruption/sin into sinlessness)’ or being “Born Again eventually as the Original Koine Greek Phrase implies this Birth Pangs Pain” as this aspect of the Christian Salvation by Christ is “shared” to “all created things or every creature” which is “all that was made” as St. Ambrose’s Quotes prior and now agree Perfectly to this Context which is what is literally Written in these quoted Bible Verses too.
Please note St. Ambrose’s quote carefully Proving that this is what he understood too, in his own words ‘… He Who saith “ALL CREATION ” EXCEPTS NOTHING. …’ (from St. Ambrose’s 2nd quote above) which literally means that ‘nothing among all created things is excluded’ from Lord Jesus Christ’s Redemption to Set it free from Sin to be eventually without Suffering anymore, in his words “… EVERY CREATURE might be REDEEMED without any suffering at the price of the blood of the Lord’s Divinity…” which is understood as Freedom into the Glorious Liberty (Given first to, of) the sons of God (Romans 8:19 -22, Christians) or in St. Ambrose’s own words, ‘… “EVERY CREATURE shall be DELIVERED from the BONDAGE of CORRUPTION”…’ (from St. Ambrose’s 1st quote above).
[Emphasis Mine]
Conclusion – Hope for All Creation
The “Substance” of “All Creation” (living or non-living) is not annihilated but made New into God’s Will into its Own Perfection as that’s the Meaning in Holy Scripture which States that Lord Jesus Christ is the “FirstBegotten over All Creation” as both St. Ambrose’s quote and St. Irenaeous quote from First Christianity below agree Perfectly Revealing this Rarely understood Truth:
“… The Apostle saith that Christ is the image of the Father — for he calls Him the image of the invisible God, the FIRST-BEGOTTEN of ALL CREATION [Colossians 1:15]. First-begotten, mark you, not first-created, in order that He may be believed to be both begotten, in virtue of His nature, and first in virtue of His eternity. In another place also the Apostle has declared that God made the Son “heir of all things, by Whom also He made the worlds [AGES/AEONS, Hebrews 11:3], Who is the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His substance.” The Apostle calls Christ the image of the Father, and Arius says that He is unlike the Father. Why, then, is He called an image, if He hath no likeness? …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Exposition of the Christian Faith Book I, Chapter 7, Points 48, Page 503)
Source:
Yes, Christ is for the Good of ALL or ALL CREATION:
“… Before ALL CREATED THINGS, then, is the SON BEGOTTEN; WITHIN ALL and for the GOOD of ALL is He MADE BEGOTTEN of the FATHER, above the Law, brought forth of Mary, under the Law…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, First Latin Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Book III, Chapter 9, Points 62, Page 600)
Source:
Yes, the Gospel (“Good News”) is for “All Creation” in the whole “World” (Mark 16:15) including non-living things because by the Prophetic Declaration of “All Creation, the essence of it for non-living things or life in plants/animals” will be Made New (Revelation 21:5) as this ancient First Christianity Quote below implies too:
“… Then, when all things are made new, he shall truly dwell in the city of God. For it is said, “He that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And the Lord says, Write all this; for these words are faithful and true. And He said to me, They are done.” And this is the truth of the matter. For since there are real men, so must there also be a real establishment (plantationem), that they vanish not away among non-existent things, but progress among those which have an actual existence. For neither is the substance nor the essence of the creation annihilated (for faithful and true is He who has established it), but “the fashion of the world passeth away; ” that is, those things among which transgression has occurred, since man has grown old in them. And therefore this [present] fashion has been formed temporary, God foreknowing all things; as I have pointed out in the preceding book, and have also shown, as far as was possible, the cause of the creation of this world of temporal things…” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Point 2-Chapter XXXV , Point 1-Chapter XXXVI, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
All Glory to Lord Jesus Christ our Most Blessed Savior of the World!
Peace to you
Apocatastasis – Restoration of All Things – Did it begin with Origen of Alexandria?
No, not at all. It existed way before him and in all prophets of God from the “age/aeon/olam” as Acts 3:21 literally states by their “mouths” (not necessarily written) as Blessed apostle Peter himself Declares this Truth regarding Almighty Jesus Christ’s Perfect Work.
Did Origen teach it?
Yes, and in this he did not err. His other errors (e. g. The doctrine of pre-existence of souls’ or ‘transmigration of souls’) are entirely due to him because it is not found in the writings of other earliest orthofox leaders of First Christianity especially in those who precede him.
Here is his quote (example):
“Stronger than all the evils in the soul is the Word, and the healing power that dwells in him, and this healing He applies, according to the will of God, to everyman. The consummation of all things is the destruction of evil…to quote Zephaniah: “My determination to gather the nations, that I am assemble the kings, to pour upon them mine indignation, even say all my fierce anger, for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. For then will I turn to the people a pure language that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve Him with one consent”…Consider carefully the promise, that all shall call upon the Name of the Lord, and serve him with one consent.” — Origen (185 to 254 A.D.) He founded a school at Caesarea, and is considered by historians to be one of the great theologians and exegete of the Eastern Church.
Despite Origen’s errors in ‘pre-existence of souls and transmigration’ (if he actually taught this as his later writings were translated and commented heavily by his theological enemies). Regardless, rest assured that Clement of Alexandria, his teacher NEVER taught it, these remains “Origen’s errors only if true”.
Clement clearly taught Christ centered universalism and purgatorial Hell as per the “apostolic seed” past down to him at the Alexandrian school. This is the “same” truth we preach.
Source:
So, Contrary to popular misunderstanding, the Theory of Apocatastasis did not start with Origen as or even St. Clement of Alexandria who taught Origen because even St. Ireneus of Lyons or St. Justin Martyr too believed in it too, to quote (examples):
The Fact that afterlife Judgment precedes the Restoration of All is also taught by Clement of Alexandria & the ancient Alexandrian School as well, to quote (How did Clement of Alexandria understand 1 John 2:2 as he quotes it in the ‘Context’ or Discussion below? – Please read and notice ‘carefully’ as to how 1 John 2:2 is quoted below in the Context of Christ Centred Universalism ONLY):
“Ver. 2. “And not only for our sins,”–that is for those of the faithful,–is the Lord the propitiator, does he say, “but also for the whole world.” He, indeed, SAVES ALL; but SOME [He SAVES], CONVERTING them by PUNISHMENTS; OTHERS, however, WHO FOLLOW VOLUNTARILY [He SAVES] with DIGNITY of honour; so “that every knee should bow to Him, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth;” that is, ANGELS, MEN, and SOULS that before His advent have departed from this temporal life.” – Clement of Alexandria (150 – 215)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-fragments.html
Source Post:
“Christ, who was called the Son of God before the ages, was manifested in the fulness of time, in order that He might cleanse us through His blood, who were under the power of sin, presenting us as pure sons to His Father, if we yield ourselves obediently to the chastisement of the Spirit. And in the end of time He shall come to do away with all evil, and to reconcile all things, in order that there may be an end of all impurities.” (Fragment XXXIX, FRAGMENTS FROM THE LOST WRITINGS OF IRENAEUS)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-fragments.html
It is self explanatory in the above, I repeat with Emphasis:
“Christ, who was called the Son of God BEFORE the AGES [Aeons], was manifested in the fulness of time, in order that He might cleanse us through His blood, who were under the power of sin, presenting us as pure sons to His Father, if we yield ourselves obediently to the chastisement of the Spirit. And in the END of TIME He shall come to DO AWAY with ALL EVIL, and to RECONCILE ALL [Created] THINGS in order that there may be an END of ALL IMPURITIES.” (Fragment XXXIX, FRAGMENTS FROM THE LOST WRITINGS OF IRENAEUS)
We ‘Understand’ Colossians 1:16 – 20 the SAME way as St. Irenaeous describes above.
Source Post:
iii. St. Justin Martyr
This is seen even in St. Justin Martyr’s quote below which may point to the ‘Second Resurrection’ for the Wicked to Happen on that Eighth Day (which is after the Righteous’ Sabbath-Seventh-Day-1000 years Millennial Reign Rest of the First Resurrection) as it is implied below:
To Quote:
“… The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first. “Moreover, the prescription that twelve bells be attached to the [robe] of the high priest, which hung down to the feet, was a symbol of the twelve apostles, who depend on the power of Christ, the eternal Priest; and through their voice it is that all the earth has been filled with the glory and grace of God and of His Christ. Wherefore David also says: ‘Their sound has gone forth into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.’ And Isaiah speaks as if he were personating the apostles, when they say to Christ that they believe not in their own report, but in the power of Him who sent them. And so he says: ‘Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child. Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation. And in short, sirs,” said I, “by enumerating all the other appointments of Moses I can demonstrate that they were types, and symbols, and declarations of those things which would happen to Christ, of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him, and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself. But since what I have now enumerated appears to me to be sufficient, I revert again to the order of the discourse.” – St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER XLI & CHAPTER XLII, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Please also notice ‘carefully’ how St. Justin Martyr distinguishes the Church as One Body vs the Wicked converted as ‘One Child’ as two different entities as follows:
“…We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child … and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself …” – St. Justin Martyr
“… Such a thing as you may witness in the body:
although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation … of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him,…” – St. Justin Martyr
Please note the popular fallacy (of some) who may think that the ‘wicked referred to in quote above is the Christians before they have repented’. This is a false context as St. Justin’s phrase “… Such a thing as you may witness in the body [of Christ, the Church, implied] …” means that St. Justin is drawing an analogy toward how ‘the Wicked being converted & becoming as One Obedient/Subjected Child’ (in the Second Resurrection of the Eighth Day) is similar to the One Body as how Lord Jesus Christ First Did to His Church (in the First Resurrection during the Seventh-Sabbath Day 1000 years Millennial Reign Time, Aeon-Olam-Age to come). Can you see it?
Source Post:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/
Peace to you
All Men – Christians and non-Christians Saved taught in First Christianity via Blessed St. Ambrose of Milan
Before accusing me pre-maturely of misquoting Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, please read these Amazing Writing of his next which must have been taught to him by apostolic succession before him as I have never read even in the great exegete, Origen of Alexandria too describing this Mystery of the Four Trumpets from Old Testament Verses signifying the Four Orders of Resurrection toward the Salvation of All Men eventually.
Please consider his writing first as follows:
“… and what is lost be restored, for all these things are accomplished as soon as they are determined by the Divine Will. And it is not a sound of a trumpet distinguishable by the bodily senses which is expected, but the invisible power of the Majesty of heaven operates; for with God to will is to do; nor need we enquire into the force required for the resurrection, but seek its fruit for ourselves. Which will be accomplished all the more easily,
if freed from faults we attain to the fullness of the spiritual mystery, and the renewed flesh receives grace from the Spirit, and the soul obtains from Christ the brightness of eternal light. 115. But those mysteries pertain not to individuals only, but to the WHOLE HUMAN RACE. For observe the ORDER of GRACE according to the type of the Law. When the first trumpet sounds, it collects those towards the east, as the chief and elect; when the second sounds, those nearly equal in merit, who, being placed towards Libanus, have abandoned the follies of the nations; when the third, those who as it were, tossed on the sea of this world, have been driven hither and thither by the waves of this life; when the fourth, those who have by no means been able sufficiently to soften the hardness of their hearts by the commandments of spiritual utterance, and therefore are said to be towards the north — for, according to Solomon, the north is a hard wind. 116. And so although all are raised again in a moment, yet all are raised in the order of their merits. And therefore they rise first, who yielding early to the impulses of devotion, and as it were going forth before the rising dawn of faith, received the rays of the eternal Sun. This one may rightly say either of the patriarchs in the course of the Old Testament, or of the apostles under the Gospel. And the second are they who, forsaking the rites of the Gentiles, passed from unholy error under the training of the Church. So, then, those first were of the fathers, those second of the Gentiles, for the light of faith took its beginning from those, among these it will remain to the end of the world. In the third place and in the fourth, those are raised who are in the south and in the north. The earth is divided into these four, of these four is the year made up, in these four is the earth completed, and from these four is the Church collected. For all who are considered to be joined to holy Church, by being called by the Divine Name, shall obtain the privilege of the resurrection and the grace of eternal 480 bliss, for “they shall come from the east and west, and from the north and south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.” 117. For it is no small light wherewith Christ encompasses His world: since “His going forth is from the height of heaven, and His progress to the height thereof, nor is there any who can hide himself from His heat.” For with His Goodness He enlightens all, and wills not to reject but to amend the foolish, and desires not to exclude the hard-hearted from the Church, but to soften them. And so the Church in the Song of Songs and Christ in the Gospel invites them, saying: “Come unto Me, all ye who labor and are heavy laden, and I will refresh you; take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart.”. 118. And you may recognize also the voice of the invitation of the Church, for she says: “Awake, O north wind, and come, thou south, blow upon my garden, and let my ointment flow forth. Let my brother come down into his garden and eat the fruit of his precious trees.” For knowing even then, O holy Church, that from those also there would be fruitful works for thee, thou didst promise to thy Christ fruit from such as they, thou who didst first say that thou wast brought into the King’s chamber, loving His breast above wine, since thou lovedst Him Who loved thee, soughtest Him Who fed thee, and didst despise dangers for religion’s sake. 119. And then, O Bride, thou art called to come from Libanus, being in the Lord’s judgment all fair and without fault. For thus it is written: “Thou art all fair, my love, and there is no fault in thee. Come hither from Libanus, my bride, come hither from Libanus.” 120. Afterwards, thou, fearing no rushing waters, no torrents coming down from Libanus, callest the north and south winds, wishing them to blow upon thy garden, that thy ointment may flow forth upon others, and that thou mayest offer to Christ in others the manifold fruits of thy productiveness. 121. And therefore “blessed is he who keepeth the words of this prophecy,” which has revealed the resurrection to us by clearer testimony, saying: “And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and they opened the books; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and hell gave up the dead which were in it.” We must, then, not question how they shall rise again, whom hell gives up and the sea restores. 122. Hear also when the future grace of the just is promised: “And I heard,'” he says, “a great voice from the throne saying: Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He shall dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be their God with them: and He shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more, nor mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more.”…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Book II On the Belief in the Resurrection, Points 114 – 122, Pages 479 – 481)
Source:
Conclusion – How is it Written that both Christians and Non-Christians are Saved in different order of merits & time?
Please consider carefully the following claims and their respective proof phrases from the above all in Blessed St. Ambrose’s words with my claims for comparison:
1) This Mystery of Resurrection unto Life affects all humanity, none excluded eventually
Focus Phrases: “… 115. But those mysteries pertain not to individuals only, but to the WHOLE HUMAN RACE. For observe the ORDER of GRACE according to the type of the Law… 116. And so although all are raised again in a moment, yet all are raised in the order of their merits… The earth is divided into these four, of these four is the year made up, in these four is the earth completed, and from these four is the Church collected. For all who are considered to be joined to holy Church, by being called by the Divine Name, shall obtain the privilege of the resurrection and the grace of eternal 480 bliss, for “they shall come from the east and west, and from the north and south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.” 1 17. For it is no small light wherewith Christ encompasses His world: since “His going forth is from the height of heaven, and His progress to the height thereof, nor is there any who can hide himself from His heat…”
2) Christians Saved in Full Salvation – only those in Faith
Focus Phrases: “… When the first trumpet sounds, it collects those towards the east, as the chief and elect; when the second sounds, those nearly equal in merit, who, being placed towards Libanus, have abandoned the follies of the nations; … And therefore they rise first, who yielding early to the impulses of devotion, and as it were going forth before the rising dawn of faith, received the rays of the eternal Sun. This one may rightly say either of the patriarchs in the course of the Old Testament, or of the apostles under the Gospel. And the second are they who, forsaking the rites of the Gentiles, passed from unholy error under the training of the Church. So, then, those first were of the fathers, those second of the Gentiles, for the light of faith took its beginning from those, among these it will remain to the end of the world…”
Note – the First Two Orders of the Resurrection
East = Perfect Christians having the first light of faith
West = Nearly Perfect Christians who passed from unholy error by the Training of the Church during their temporal life prior having the light of faith too
3) Non-Christians Saved eventually
Focus Phrases: “… when the third, those who as it were, tossed on the sea of this world, have been driven hither and thither by the waves of this life; when the fourth, those who have by no means been able sufficiently to soften the hardness of their hearts by the commandments of spiritual utterance, and therefore are said to be towards the north — for, according to Solomon, the north is a hard wind… In the third place and in the fourth, those are raised who are in the south and in the north… For with His Goodness He enlightens all, and wills not to reject but to amend the foolish, and desires not to exclude the hard-hearted from the Church, but to soften them. And so the Church in the Song of Songs and Christ in the Gospel invites them, saying: “Come unto Me, all ye who labor and are heavy laden, and I will refresh you; take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart.”. 118. And you may recognize also the voice of the invitation of the Church, for she says: “Awake, O north wind, and come, thou south, blow upon my garden, and let my ointment flow forth. Let my brother come down into his garden and eat the fruit of his precious trees.” For knowing even then, O holy Church, that from those also there would be fruitful works for thee, thou didst promise to thy Christ fruit from such as they, thou who didst first say that thou wast brought into the King’s chamber, loving His breast above wine, since thou lovedst Him Who loved thee, soughtest Him Who fed thee, and didst despise dangers for religion’s sake. 119. And then, O Bride, thou art called to come from Libanus, being in the Lord’s judgment all fair and without fault. For thus it is written: “Thou art all fair, my love, and there is no fault in thee. Come hither from Libanus, my bride, come hither from Libanus.” 120. Afterwards, thou, fearing no rushing waters, no torrents coming down from Libanus, callest the north and south winds, wishing them to blow upon thy garden, that thy ointment may flow forth upon others, and that thou mayest offer to Christ in others the manifold fruits of thy productiveness…”
4) Non-Christian being referred to finer focus phrases from point 3 above
Focus Phrases:
“… when the third, those who as it were, tossed on the sea of this world, have been driven hither and thither by the waves of this life…”
“… when the fourth, those who have by no means been able sufficiently to soften the hardness of their hearts by thecommandments of spiritual utterance, and therefore are said to be towards the north…”
5) Non-Christian Saved finer focus phrases from point 3 above
Focus Phrase: “… and from these four is the Church collected. For all who are considered to be joined to holy Church, by being called by the Divine Name, shall obtain the privilege of the resurrection and the grace of eternal 480 bliss,…”
Please note that at first glance it sometimes seems like it refers to ‘Christians only being collected’ but this distinction or meaning that the ‘non-Christians are joined to share in the Christian (or Sons of God’s) Salvation of being set free from the corruption of sin’ (as it is Prophesied in Romans 8:19 – 22) as the true meaning in quote above is further seen by St. Ambrose’s own words in the continuing passage from the above (next).
For example: the phrase “… For with His Goodness He enlightens all, and wills not to reject but to amend the foolish, and desires not to exclude the hard-hearted from the Church, but to soften them…” clearly implies that God Wills to include the “hard-hearted” (referring to the “North” type) too as Point 114 clearly proves that this will come to pass as the lost restored & that for God to Will is to Do during these order of resurrections, to quote:
“… and what is lost be restored, for all these things are accomplished as soon as they are determined by the Divine Will. And it is not a sound of a trumpet distinguishable by the bodily senses which is expected, but the invisible power of the Majesty of heaven operates; for with God to will is to do; nor need we enquire into the force required for the resurrection, but seek its fruit for ourselves…”
Focus phrases: “… And so the Church in the Song of Songs and Christ in the Gospel invites them, saying: “Come unto Me, all ye who labor and are heavy laden, and I will refresh you; take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart.”. 118. And you may recognize also the voice of the invitation of the Church, for she says: “Awake, O north wind, and come, thou south, blow upon my garden, and let my ointment flow forth. Let my brother come down into his garden and eat the fruit of his precious trees…”
Please notice carefully these distinctions from St. Ambrose’s quote above which begin to prove our claims irrefutably:
Focus Phrase: “… For with His Goodness He enlightens all, and wills not to reject but to amend the foolish, and desires not to exclude the hard-hearted from the Church, but to soften them. Christ in the Gospel invites them …”
The “them” in the quote above is NOT His Bride (Church) but these “north” (wicked) ones.
Focus Phrase: “… And you may recognize also the voice of the invitation of the Church, for she says: “Awake, O north wind, and come, thou south, blow upon my garden, and let my ointment flow forth. Let my brother come down into his garden and eat the fruit of his precious trees…”
iii) The Church (Bride’s) toil toward these non-Christian’s Salvation (“south or north” ones symbolically) is not in Vain as it will be Reaped at that time by Lord Jesus Christ’s Work
Focus Phrase: “… And you may RECOGNIZE also the VOICE of the INVITATION of the CHURCH, for she says: “AWAKE, O NORTH wind, and come, thou SOUTH, blow upon my garden, and let my ointment flow forth. Let my brother come down into his garden and eat the fruit of his precious trees.” For knowing even then, O HOLY CHURCH, that FROM THOSE ALSO there would be FRUITFUL works for thee, THOU didst PROMISE to thy Christ FRUIT from SUCH as THEY,…”
The phrase “… AWAKE [Resurrect to life], O NORTH wind, and come, thou SOUTH …” refers to the Second Resurrection to life after the thousand years are over (Revelation 20:5) toward these two non-Christian groups where the HOLY CHURCH offers those saved from among these too, as these phrase means “… For knowing even then, O HOLY CHURCH, that FROM THOSE ALSO there would be FRUITFUL works for thee, THOU didst PROMISE to thy Christ FRUIT [Saved ones] from SUCH as THEY [“North, South type – non-Christian ones] …”
“… And then, O BRIDE , thou art called to come from Libanus, being in the Lord’s judgment all fair and without fault. For thus it is written: “Thou art all fair, my love, and there is no fault in thee. Come hither from Libanus, MY BRIDE, come hither from Libanus.” 120. AFTERWARDS, THOU, fearing no rushing waters, no torrents coming down from Libanus, CALLEST the NORTH and SOUTH winds, WISHING THEM to blow upon thy garden, that THY OINTMENT may flow forth upon OTHERS, and that thou mayest offer to Christ in others the manifold fruits of thy productiveness…”
Focus Phrase: “… AFTERWARDS, THOU [Bride, Christians, Church], fearing no rushing waters, no torrents coming down from Libanus, CALLEST [to Resurrection of Life, Revelation 20:5, Revelation 22:17] the NORTH [Worst-non-Christians] and SOUTH [Best-non-Christians] winds, WISHING THEM to blow upon thy garden, that THY OINTMENT [this aspect of Christian Salvation’s liberty from corruption or sin toward sinlessness is shared, Romans 8:21 – 22] may flow forth upon OTHERS [non-Christians], and that thou mayest offer to Christ in others the manifold fruits of thy productiveness [from effort toward these non-Christians be it in life prior or at that time post-Resurrection Timeline, implied by Context of Passage, right?] …”
Perhaps the earliest Church Leaders knew more of these mysteries of the kingdom of heavens which is passed down to them by the Lord to the apostles to their presbyters to subsequent leaders where most of such First Orthodox Christian Truth may have been lost as Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan’s Writing here points. More Details and Discussion from further quotes by St. Ambrose and others may be found in link below for further edification:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/amp
[Emphasis mine throughout]
Thank you for reading and may God Grant you Peace in His Grace.
All Glory to God in Flesh, Lord Jesus Christ our Most Blessed and Indescribable Most Loving Saviour of the World!
Peace to you
Heavens – Will everyone go to Heaven?
No, not everyone goes into the ‘heavens’ (Verse in image). First Christianity Understood it likewise as follows:
1) What to do to go to the Heavens?
To Quote:
“… 1 5 . W hat shall we do, then? How shall we ascend unto heaven? There, powers are stationed, principalities drawn up in order, who keep the doors of heaven, and challenge him who ascends. Who shall give me passage, unless I proclaim that Christ is Almighty? The gates are shut, — they are not opened to any and every one; not every one who will shall enter, unless he also believes according to the true Faith. The Sovereign’s court is kept under guard. 16. Suppose, however, that one who is unworthy hath crept up, hath stolen past the principalities who keep the gates of heaven, hath sat down at the supper of the Lord; when the Lord of the banquet enters, and sees one not clad in the wedding garment of the Faith, He will cast him into outer darkness, where is weeping and gnashing of teeth, if he keep not the Faith and peace. 17. Let us, therefore, keep the wedding garment which we have received, and not deny Christ that which is His own, Whose omnipotence angels announce, prophets foretell, apostles witness to, even as we have already shown above. 18. Perchance, indeed, the prophet hath spoken of His entering in not only with regard to the gates of the universal heaven; for there be other heavens* also where-into the Word of God passeth…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Book IV Chapter 2 Points 15 – 18 Page 627)
Source:
*(in the Last Line St. Ambrose Proves that there are ‘other regions like the heavens’ if perhaps we cannot enter this Primary-Highest one), in his words, “… for there be other heavens* also where-into the Word of God passeth…”.
Yes, St. Ambrose seems to Point that the Denial on Entrance is Perhaps to a Particular Highest Heavens as there are ‘other heavens’ too as his quote above implies where the Word of God Passes through All of it.
2) Only the Hundredfold-Seed Go into the Full Heavens
To Quote:
“A fragment from the early 2nd century of one of the lost volumes of Papias, a Christian bishop, expounds that “heaven” was separated into three distinct layers. He referred to the first as just “heaven”, the second as “paradise”, and the third as “the city”. Papias taught that “there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce a hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold”. In the 2nd century AD, Irenaeus (a Greek bishop) wrote that not all who are saved would merit an abode in heaven itself.”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_in_Christianity
Let’s Take a Closer look at St. Irenaeous’ quote above which implies that ‘… not all who are saved would merit an abode in heaven itself…’ (which agrees to Christ Centered Universalism as St. Ambrose’s First & Second Resurrection insight discussed in earlier post, which one may be read in link at the end of this post as it demonstrates likewise too in detail):
“… And as the presbyters say, Then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour shall be seen according as they who see Him shall be worthy. [They say, moreover], that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundred-fold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold: for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second will dwell in paradise, the last will inhabit the city; and that was on this account the Lord declared, “In My Father’s house are many mansions.” For all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling-place; even as His Word says, that a share is allotted to all by the Father, according as each person is or shall be worthy. And this is the couch on which the guests shall recline, having been invited to the wedding. The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, affirm that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved, and that they advance through steps of this nature; also that they ascend through the Spirit to the Son, and through the Son to the Father, and that in due time the Son will yield up His work to the Father, even as it is said by the apostle, “For He must reign till He hath put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” For in the times of the kingdom, the righteous man who is upon the earth shall then forget to die. “But when He saith, All things shall be subdued unto Him, it is manifest that He is excepted who did put all things under Him. And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all…” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter Chapter XXXVI, Points 1 – 2)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
Conclusion – The Heretics have no part in the Heavens but may be Saved into their own lower abodes
Example: The Manichæan Heretics
A Common Fallacy is Addressed: Was St. Ambrose an eternal Hell believer?
Here’s an Example of a part-argument using the same text to disprove St. Ambrose’s Christ Centered Universalism as it is done in link below as follows:
“Now let the Manichæan have his word: ‘I hold that the devil is the creator of our flesh.’ The Lord will answer him: What, then, are you doing in the heavenly places? Depart, go your way to your creator. ‘My will is that they be with Me, whom my Father has given Me.’ (John 17:24) You, Manichæan, hold yourself for a creature of the devil; hasten, then, to his abode, the place of fire and brimstone, where the fire thereof is not quenched, lest ever the punishment have an end.” – St. Ambrose of Milan ca. 338-397 (Exposition of the Christian Faith, Bk. 2.119)
Source:
https://classicalchristianity.com/category/bysaint/st-ambrose-of-milan-ca-338-397/
Reply
Please consider what St. Ambrose actually meant ‘in full’ in that whole writing of his instead of quoting a section only regarding the same topic of the ‘Manichæan Heretics’, to quote:
“… “… 119. Now let the Manichaean have his word. “I hold that the devil is the creator of our flesh.” The Lord will answer him: “What, then, doest thou in the heavenly places? Depart, go thy way to thy creator. ‘My will is that they be with Me, whom my Father hath given Me.’ Thou, Manichaean, holdest thyself for a creature of the devil; hasten, then, to his abode, the place of fire and brimstone, where the fire thereof is not quenched, lest ever the punishment have an end.” … 123 . What verdict do we look for from Christ? That do I know. Do I say, what verdict will He give? Nay, He hath already pronounced sentence. We have it in our hands. “Let all,” saith He, “honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son, honoreth not the Father, Who hath sent Him. ” 124. If the sentence please you not, appeal to the Father, CANCEL the JUDGMENT that the Father hath given. … For HE is the FOUNDATION of ALL, and is the head of the Church, in Whom our common nature according to the flesh has merited the right to the heavenly throne. For the flesh is honored as having a share in Christ Who is God, and the nature of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE is HONORED as HAVING a SHARE in the FLESH . As we then sit in Him by fellowship in our fleshly nature, so also He, Who through the assumption of our flesh was made a curse for us (seeing that a curse could not fall upon the blessed Son of God), so, I say, He through the OBEDIENCE of ALL will become subject in us; when the GENTILE has BELIEVED, and the JEW has ACKNOWLEDGED Him Whom he CRUCIFIED; when the MANICHAEN has WORSHIPED Him, Whom he has NOT BELIEVED to have come in the flesh; when the ARIAN has CONFESSED Him to be Almighty, Whom HE has DENIED; when, lastly, the wisdom of God, His justice, peace, love, RESURRECTION, is IN ALL. Through His own works and through the manifold forms of virtues Christ will be in us in subjection to the Father. And when, with VICE RENOUNCED and CRIME at an END, one spirit in the HEART of ALL PEOPLES has begun to cleave to God in all things, then will God be ALL and in ALL …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Book II Chapter 13 Point 119 Page 572, Chapter 14 Points 123 – 124 Page 575, Book V Chapter 14 Point 180 – Point 181 Page 725)
Source:
The Above are all within a Same Book/Writing as this same quotes & chronology can also be seen literally in Source below too:
http://www.storyofasoul.com/resources/christianfaith.html
So, it is clear that St. Ambrose Speaks of a Punishment without end at the Beginning toward a Manichæan Heretics who may NOT be admitted into the ‘Heavens-type of Salvation’ (Matthew 5:19) but may be SAVED into his appropriate abode after the APPEAL to CANCEL the JUDGMENT Sentence by HIS MERCY (James 2:13) which will eventually happen just before God becomes ALL in ALL (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28) ‘after they CONFESS that JESUS is LORD’ too (Philippians 2:11, 1 Corinthians 12:3) HONORING God the Father & Son as Required in the END as the quotes above prove clearly, to quote (‘highlight’):
“… Now let the Manichaean have his word … Thou, Manichaean, holdest thyself for a creature of the devil; hasten, then, to his abode, the place of fire and brimstone, where the fire thereof is not quenched, lest ever the punishment have an end … If the sentence please you not, appeal to the Father, CANCEL the JUDGMENT that the Father hath given … For HE is the FOUNDATION of ALL … For the flesh is honored as having a share in Christ Who is God, and the nature of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE is HONORED as HAVING a SHARE in the FLESH … I say, He through the OBEDIENCE of ALL will become subject in us; … when the MANICHAEN has WORSHIPED Him, Whom he has NOT BELIEVED to have come in the flesh … when, lastly, the wisdom of God, His justice, peace, love, RESURRECTION, is IN ALL. … And when, with VICE RENOUNCED and CRIME at an END, one spirit in the HEART of ALL PEOPLES has begun to cleave to God in all things, then will God be ALL and in ALL …” – Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, emphasized from the quote above)
Please note carefully that this agrees with the Ancient Exegesis that the ‘Eternal Hell Sentence with no end’ can be CANCELLED by God’s MERCY which TRIUMPHS over JUDGMENT (James 2:13) by Lord Jesus Christ eventually till God becomes ALL in ALL post ALLEGIANCE CONFESSION to Him (Philippians 2:11, 1 Corinthians 12:3) as the Spirit (God) and Bride (Church) call out to such thirsty-ones (unsaved ones from the Lake of Fire as the ‘fire causes thirst spiritually too’ in Revelation 22:17) to Partake the Water of Life Freely (implying their Salvation eventually) agreeing to the Ancient Prophecies of the Christian Sibyline Oracles & even the Apocalypse of Peter & Apocalypse of Elijah too as discussed in detail in posts such as the one below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/amp
All Glory to Lord Jesus Christ, God in Flesh Who Saves us All eventually by His Unfathomable Mercy!
Christ Centered Universalism in St. Ambrose of Milan – Faith Unchallenged
Image from Book Titled, “Parade of Faith: A Biographical History of the Christian Church”.
Source for Purchase:
https://www.amazon.com/Parade-Faith-Biographical-History-Christian-ebook/dp/B003TFE5Y0
Here are some other quotes from another Book/Source regarding St. Ambrose of Milan, to quote:
Ambrose of Milan
Ambrose of Milan, A.D. 340-398, says: “What then hinders our believing that he who is beaten small as the dust is not annihilated, but is changed for the better; so that, instead of an earthly man, he is made a spiritual man, and our believing that he who is destroyed, is so destroyed that all taint is removed, and there remains but what is pure and clean. And in God’s saying of the adversaries of Jerusalem, ‘They shall be as though they were not,” you are to understand they shall exist substantially, and as converted, but shall not exist as enemies. God gave death, not as a penalty, but as a remedy; death was given for a remedy as the end of evils.” “How shall the sinner exist in the future, seeing the place of sin cannot be of long continuance?” 3 Because God’s image is that of the one God, it like Him starts from one, and is diffused to infinity. And, once again, from an infinite number all things return into one as into their end, because God is both beginning and end of all things.4 How then, shall (all things) be subject to Christ? In this very way in which the Lord Himself said. “Take my yoke upon you,’ for it is not the untamed who bear the yoke, but the humble and gentle, so that in Jesus’s name every knee shall bend. Is this subjection of Christ not completed? Not at all. Because the subjection of Christ consists not in few, but in all. Christ will be subject to God in us by means of the obedience of all; when vices having been cast away, and sin reduced to submission, one spirit of all people, in one sentiment, shall with one accord begin to cleave to God, then God will be all in all, when all then shall have believed and done the will of God, Christ will be all and in all; and when Christ shall be all in all, God will be all in all.5 At present he is over all by his power, but it is necessary that he be in all by their free will:6 So the Son of man came to save that which was lost, that is, all, for, ‘As in Adam all died, so, too, in Christ shall all be made alive.'” 7 “For, if the guilty die, who have been unwilling to leave the path of sin, even against their will they still gain, not of nature but of fault, that they may sin no more.” “Death is not bitter; but to the sinner it is bitter, and yet life is more bitter, for it is a deadlier thing to live in sin than to die in sin, because the sinner as long as he lives increases in sin, but if he dies he ceases to sin.” 8
Cave says that Ambrose quotes and adapts many of the writings of the Greek Fathers, particularly Origen; and Jerome declares that Ambrose was indebted to Didymus for the most of his de Spiritu Sanctu. Both these, it will be noted, were Universalists. Augustine tells us that every day after his morning devotions Ambrose studied the Scriptures, chiefly by the aid of the Greek commentators, and especially of Origen and Hippolytus, and of Didymus and Basil. 9 Three of these at least were Universalists. “Perhaps his most original book is ‘On the Blessing of Death,” in which he takes a singularly mild view of the punishment of the wicked, expresses his belief in a purifying fire, and argues that whatever the punishment be, it is a state distinctly preferable to a sinful life. His eschatology was deeply influenced by the larger hopes of Origen.”10
The language of Ambrose in his comments on Ps. 118, is as follows: “Dives* in the Gospel, although a sinner, is pressed with penal agonies, that he may escape the sooner.” 11 Again: “Those who do not come to the first, but are reserved for the second resurrection, shall be burned till they fill up the times between the first and second resurrection, or should they not have done so, will remain longer in punishment.”
The Amrbosiaster is by an unknown author, anciently erroneously supposed to be Ambrose, as it was bound with the works of this father. On I Cor. 15:28, the Ambrosiaster says: “This is implied in the Savior’s subjecting himself to the Father; this is involved in God’s being all in all, namely, when every creature thinks one and the same thing, so that every tongue of celestials, terrestials, and infernals shall confess God as the great One from whom all things are derived.” This sentiment he avows in other passages.
Source:
https://tentmaker.org/books/prevailing/upd18.html
*Dives refers to the “Rich Man” in Hades narration in the Gospel (Luke 16:19 -31).
Peace to you
All Men Saved eventually – Common Redemption through the eyes of St. Ambrose of Milan
1) The Resurrection Mystery – Four Types of Raised People join the Church Progressively
“… 115. But those mysteries pertain not to individuals only, but to the WHOLE HUMAN RACE. For observe the ORDER of GRACE according to the type of the Law. When the first trumpet sounds, it collects those towards the east, as the chief and elect; when the second sounds, those nearly equal in merit, who, being placed towards Libanus, have abandoned the follies of the nations; when the third, those who as it were, tossed on the sea of this world, have been driven hither and thither by the waves of this life; when the fourth, those who have by no means been able sufficiently to soften the hardness of their hearts by the commandments of spiritual utterance, and therefore are said to be towards the north — for, according to Solomon, the north is a hard wind. 116. And so although all are raised again in a moment, yet all are raised in the order of their merits. And therefore they rise first, who yielding early to the impulses of devotion, and as it were going forth before the rising dawn of faith, received the rays of the eternal Sun. This one may rightly say either of the patriarchs in the course of the Old Testament, or of the apostles under the Gospel. And the second are they who, forsaking the rites of the Gentiles, passed from unholy error under the training of the Church. So, then, those first were of the fathers, those second of the Gentiles, for the light of faith took its beginning from those, among these it will remain to the end of the world. In the third place and in the fourth, those are raised who are in the south and in the north. The earth is divided into these four, of these four is the year made up, in these four is the earth completed, and from these four is the Church collected. For all who are considered to be joined to holy Church, by being called by the Divine Name, shall obtain the privilege of the resurrection and he grace of eternal 480 bliss, for “they shall come from the east and west, and from the north and south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.” 1 17. For it is no small light wherewith Christ encompasses His world: since “His going forth is from the height of heaven, and His progress to the height thereof, nor is there any who can hide himself from His heat.” For with His Goodness He enlightens all, and wills not to reject but to amend the foolish, and desires not to exclude the hard-hearted from the Church, but to soften them. And so the Church in the Song of Songs and Christ in the Gospel invites them, saying: “Come unto Me, all ye who labor and are heavy laden, and I will refresh you; take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart….” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Book II On the Belief in the Resurrection, Points 115 – 117, Point 114, Pages 479 – 480)
Source:
In the above please notice carefully that the above Resurrection Order will Happen to the ‘Whole Human Race’ as the ‘Order of Grace’ in the Law implies (please note that before quoting the Mystery below in full, St. Ambrose discusses some Old Testament Scripture & events pointing to this Truth Allegorically):
“… But those mysteries pertain not to individuals only, but to the WHOLE HUMAN RACE. For observe the ORDER of GRACE according to the type of the Law … 116. And so although all are raised again in a moment, yet all are raised in the order of their merits. …” – St. Amrose of Milan (in quote above, highlighted)
“… When the first trumpet sounds, it collects those towards the east, as the chief and elect … And therefore they rise first, who yielding early to the impulses of devotion, and as it were going forth before the rising dawn of faith, received the rays of the eternal Sun. This one may rightly say either of the patriarchs in the course of the Old Testament, or of the apostles under the Gospel…” – St. Ambrose of Milan (in quote above, highlighted)
“… when the second [Trumpet] sounds, those nearly equal in merit, who, being placed towards Libanus, have abandoned the follies of the nations;… And the second are they who, forsaking the rites of the Gentiles, passed from unholy error under the training of the Church. So, then, those first were of the fathers, those second of the Gentiles, for the light of faith* took its beginning from those, among these it will remain to the end of the world…” – St. Ambrose of Milan (in quote above, highlighted)
*Faith – Please note carefully that the ‘believing in faith, i.e. before seeing in this life itself only applies to the first and second order of Grace in quotes above. Proof Phrase: “… So, then, those first were of the fathers, those second of the Gentiles, for the light of faith* took its beginning from those…”. Indeed, though the third & fourth order ones are ‘joined into the church later’ as ‘each man in his own order/turn/time’ (1 Corinthians 15:23), they are NOT mentioned to have faith type of believing & seem to come from some imperfect traits especially the fourth type is from the ‘hardened ones’ (sounds like the unbelieving/disobedient, hardened clay as per Romans 9:18).
iii) Sheepfold2 – The Righteous Gentiles
“… when the third [Trumpet Sounds], those who as it were, tossed on the sea of this world, have been driven hither and thither by the waves of this life;… In the third place and in the fourth, those are raised who are in the south and in the north. The earth is divided into these four, of these four is the year made up, in these four is the earth completed, and from these four is the Church collected. For all who are considered to be joined to holy Church, by being called by the Divine Name, shall obtain the privilege of the resurrection and he grace of eternal 480 bliss, for “they shall come from the east and west, and from the north and south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God…” – St. Ambrose of Milan (in quote above, highlighted)
“… when the fourth, those who have by no means been able sufficiently to soften the hardness of their hearts by the commandments of spiritual utterance, and therefore are said to be towards the north — for, according to Solomon, the north is a hard wind. … For it is no small light wherewith Christ encompasses His world: since “His going forth is from the height of heaven, and His progress to the height thereof, nor is there any who can hide himself from His heat.” For with His Goodness He enlightens all, and wills not to reject but to amend the foolish, and desires not to exclude the hard-hearted from the Church, but to soften them. And so the Church in the Song of Songs and Christ in the Gospel invites them, saying: “Come unto Me, all ye who labor and are heavy laden, and I will refresh you; take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart….” – St. Ambrose of Milan (in quote above, highlighted)
2) Church only or All? Few or Many?
Question
Doesn’t the quote in Point 1) prior such as “…in these four is the earth completed, and from these four is the Church collected…” mean that these refer to the Christian Salvation only & not of other men?
Reply
That phrase above means that ‘those who are worthy to join the Church during that Resurrection times (order)’ will do so as his own phrase next means that ‘… For all who are considered to be JOINED to HOLY CHURCH, by being called by the Divine Name, shall obtain the privilege of the resurrection and the grace of eternal 480 bliss, for “they shall come from the east and west, and from the north and south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God….’.
This means that the third and fourth order ones were not initially joined to the Holy Church and thus are joined during the order of their Resurrection in the Context of sharing in the ‘being Raised sinless to Life Context’ sharing ‘in this liberty of Christian Salvation aspect’ (as Prophesied in Romans 8:19 – 22) as St. Ambrose reveals that these are joined in these aspects upon being Saved or Raised to life after the 1000 years have ended (implied from Revelation 20:5 & St. Ambrose’s quote on the Second Resurrection later), in his words, “… shall obtain the privilege of the resurrection and the grace of eternal 480 bliss …”. Thus the ‘few’ (Christians, the first & second order ones, Matthew 7:14 partake of the First Resurrection – Revelation 20:4 – 6 while the ‘many’ shall be Saved thereafter in the afterlife onward-implied raised during this third & fourth order, Matthew 8:11 whilst some still remain to be purged in the Lake of Fire for their ‘Aeoninan time’ as St. Ambrose’s own words describe this Context more clearly as follows):
This is how the New World Encyclopedia also concludes similarly regarding his theology of Christ Centered Universalism:
“… At this juncture, one is to be reminded that Ambrose was actually a Christian universalist, as was seen in the preceding section. How can his antisemitism be reconciled with his universalism? His conceivable answer to this question is his interesting universalist view that even if people such as the Jews (and also the Arians) may miss the first resurrection, they will be purified by the fire of punishment by the time of the second resurrection, and that if they miss even that chance, they will simply stay longer in the fire of punishment that will eventually purify them:
‘…Our Saviour has appointed two kinds of resurrection, in accordance with which John says, in the Apocalypse, “Blessed is he that hath part in the first resurrection”; for such come to grace without the judgment. As for those who do not come to the first, but are reserved until the second resurrection, these shall be burnt, until they fulfill their appointed times, between the first and the second resurrection; or, if they should not have fulfilled them then, they shall remain still longer in punishment … ‘ St. Ambrose of Milan ”
Source:
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ambrose
Further Explanation, please consider ‘what St. Ambrose means by joining the Church in the Context of Universal Salvation’ as follows (as the Context ties up continuously from the same Verse of ‘Take His Light Yoke after learning from Him’ during this Resurrection Times/Four-Orders …):
“… 167. How, then, will they be brought into subjection? In the way that the Lord Himself has said. “Take My yoke upon you.” It is not the fierce that bear the yoke, but the humble and the gentle. This clearly is NON BASE SUBJECTION for MEN, but a GLORIOUS ONE: “that in the NAME of JESUS EVERY KNEE should bow, of things in heaven and things beneath; and that EVERY TONGUE should CONFESS that JESUS IS LORD in the Glory of God the Father.” But for this reason all things were not made subject before, for they had not yet received the wisdom of God, not yet did they wear the easy yoke of the Word on the neck as it were of their mind. “But as many as received Him,” as it is written, “to them gave He power to become the sons of God.” 168. Will any one say that Christ is now made subject, because MANY have BELIEVED? Certainly NOT. For Christ’s subjection lies NOT in a FEW but in ALL. For just as I do not seem to be brought into subjection, if the flesh in me as yet lusts against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh, although I am in part subdued; so because the WHOLE CHURCH is the one body of Christ, we DIVIDE CHRIST as long as the HUMAN RACE DISAGREES. Therefore Christ is not yet made subject, for His members are not yet brought into subjection. But when we have become, not many members, but one spirit, then He also will become subject, in order that through His subjection “God may be ALL and IN ALL.” …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Book V Prologue, Points 167 – 168, Page 720)
Source:
In the above, it is clear that the ‘few who have believed and become sons of God (His Bride), Matthew 7:14’ is not the end of the story as the Subjection of ‘every knee bowing & confessing that Jesus is Lord’ is quoted to imply that ‘Christ’s subjection lies NOT in a FEW but in ALL’ as ‘Will any one say that Christ is now made subject, because MANY have BELIEVED? Certainly NOT’ as St. Ambrose’s words imply.
So, in the General Salvation (more proof quotes at the end of this write up) the WHOLE HUMAN RACE is seen as being JOINED to the BODY of CHRIST in some way making sense (as sharing in the being sinless liberty of the Christian/Sons of God’s Salvation, Romans 8:19 – 22 agrees) of the quote prior in St. Ambrose’ own writing.
That is the quote “…in these four is the earth completed, and from these four is the Church collected…” includes the WHOLE HUMAN RACE as St. Ambrose also wrote and ‘… so because the WHOLE CHURCH is the one body of Christ, we DIVIDE CHRIST as long as the HUMAN RACE DISAGREES…. ‘ which is not believers of faith only as his phrase ‘… Will any one say that Christ is now made subject, because MANY have BELIEVED? Certainly NOT. For Christ’s subjection lies NOT in a FEW but in ALL…’ implies ALL MEN or the WHOLE HUMAN RACE eventually as the Context of ‘Every knee bowing & Confessing that Jesus is Lord’ Seals this Beautifully till “… God may be ALL and IN ALL…” (all quoted in quote above – Proving this Context by St. Ambrose himself).
The Holy Church or Church refers to Christians only (His Bride) while the phrase ‘whole church’ refers to ‘the church + those who are joined to them’ in St. Ambrose’s usage. So the WHOLE CHURCH refers to the WHOLE HUMAN RACE (or ALL,not few or many only***) being JOINED to His CHURCH (the Bride, Christians) eventually in SHARING in the General Salvation of sinlessness toward ALL MEN. Can you see these distinctions clearly in his writing/context together with the Verses quoted?
***Many, Few or All Men will believe in Him eventually?
St. Ambrose’s quote below answers that Perfectly according to the Prophecy that all rational creatures will believe in Him eventually (as it is implied by the phrase ‘believed on in the world (kosmos’) in 1 Timothy 3:16 as most may only believe in Him after seeing Him as per His Declaration in John 6:40, John 20:29, fulfilling the Will of God Perfectly (John 6:29), to quote:
A Brief Conclusion – All in the World will Believe in Christ and be Saved in the End – Context for 1 Timothy 3:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28
“… Let us then shortly sum up our CONCLUSION on the whole matter. A unity of power puts aside all idea of a degrading subjection. His giving up of power, and His victory as conqueror won over death, have not lessened His power. Obedience works out subjection. Christ has taken obedience upon Himself, obedience even to taking on Him our flesh, the cross even to gaining our salvation. Thus where the work lies, there too is the Author of the work. When therefore, all things have become subject to Christ, through Christ’s obedience, so that ALL bend their knees in His name, then He Himself will be ALL in ALL. For NOW, since ALL do NOT BELIEVE, ALL do NOT seem to be in SUBJECTION. But WHEN ALL have BELIEVED and DONE the will of God, then Christ will be ALL and in ALL. And when Christ is all and in all, then will God be all and in all; for the Father abides ever in the Son. How, then, is He shown to be weak, Who redeemed the weak? …” – Blessed Archbishop Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Page 726, Chapter 15, Point 182)
Source:
Context for God overcoming the Unbelief of Men as it is Written in Romans 3:3 – 4?
The Unbelief of All Men may be Solved and these may believe as it is Written above till God becomes all in all after the third shaking of the Heavens, Earth, Sea when ‘All Principalities, Powers (of Evil, Devil, Demons, Darkness) shall be Destroyed, implied’, as St. Ambrose explains:
“… This is that peace above all peace which shall be granted AFTER the THIRD SHAKING of the heaven, the sea, the earth and the dry land, when He shall DESTROY ALL PRINCIPALITIES and POWERS [Ephesians 6:12, Colossians 2:15, Isaiah 24:21]. For HEAVEN and EARTH shall PASS AWAY [Revelation 21:1],306 and ALL the FASHION of this WORLD [1 Corinthians 7:31, 1 John 2:17]; … And thus there will be peace over all, the passions of the body offering no resistance, and the UNBELIEVING mind NO OBSTACLE [Romans 3:3 – 4], that CHRIST may be ALL in ALL [1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28], offering in SUBJECTION to the Father the HEARTS of ALL MEN [1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 4:10] …” – Blessed Archbishop Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, LETTER XXX, AMBROSE TO IRENAEUS, GREETING, Point 14)
Source:
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/ambrose_letters_03_letters21_30.htm
3) Prayer for the Salvation of ALL MEN
The ‘All Men’ in Verse in 1 Timothy 2:1 refers to the WHOLE HUMAN RACE (including the one praying) in St. Ambrose’s Context as he explains below:
“… Paul makes a prayer for himself when he says: ‘That God may open the ‘door of his Word for me to announce the MYSTERY of CHRIST.’ 15 Appropriate for the occasion was the substance of his prayer. In preaching the Gospel he was clearly chosen to be the one who opened the door of the Word, from which issued the SALVATION of the GENTILES and LIFE itself for ALL PEOPLE. … [Salvation for Which People? Context: All Men = the Whole Human Race as St. Ambrose explains just three points later as follows] … You are instructed above all to pray for the people, that is, for ALL MEN [1 Timothy 2:1], 28 for all members of your family, which is a conspicuous sign of mutual love. If you make a petition for yourself, then you pray merely for your own satisfaction. If everyone were thus to make a petition just for himself, he would become, not a petitioner, but an intercessor for favors. We conclude, therefore, that a petition for oneself is restricted to the person petitioning, whereas a PETITION for ALL MEN INCLUDES ONESELF, as you are a part of that number. Hence, great is the recompense wherein ALL MEN are accorded the benefits acquired by the prayers of each individual of the group. In this there is no question of presumption. Rather, it is much more the reflection of a humble heart, bestowing benefits more abundantly. …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: fathers of the church, Gain and Abel, Points 36, 39, Chapter 9 Page 392, 395)
Source:
https://archive.org/stream/fathersofthechur027571mbp/fathersofthechur027571mbp_djvu.txt
Thus if the ‘All Men’ in 1 Timothy 2:1 refers to the WHOLE HUMAN RACE, similarly the ALL MEN in these Consecutive Verses (same Greek Word, Same Author, Same Context) means likewise in 1 Timothy 2:4, where believers are more special as it is Written in 1 Timothy 4:10 as the meaning of His Ransom for All in 1 Timothy 2:6 too. Can you see it?
“… . Until, therefore, this price should have been paid for all men which by the shedding of the Lords Blood had to be so paid for the absolution of all, the blood of every man, who, by the Law and solemn custom were to follow the precepts of holy religion, was required. But, since one Lord Christ suffered, seeing that the ransom is now paid for all, there is now no longer any need that the blood of every man one by one should be shed by circumcision, … but that circumcision itself was a sign, until the fulness of the Gentiles should be come in, and so all Israel be saved by circumcision, not of a small portion of one member, but of the heart. …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, LETTER LXXII, AMBROSE TO CONSTANTIUS, Points 9, 26)
Source:
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/ambrose_letters_08_letters71_80.htm
Note: St. Ambrose is revealing in this letter that the circumcision rite in the flesh was a shadow to imply the circumcision of the heart later. The Eighth Day by which the circumcision must be performed in order not to be destroyed reveals that by the Eighth Day (AEON3) all must be circumcised in heart (if you read his quote in full in source above implies this intrinsically). This is a true exegesis as St. Ambrose’s conclusion regarding this circumcision of the heart will apply to:
‘until the fulness of the Gentiles should be come in’ = All (Fulness) Gentiles or non-Jews will be Saved first by then (as apostle Paul warned us not to be ignorant of this Mystery in Romans 11:25).
‘and so all Israel be saved by circumcision, … but of the heart’ = All Israel (Jews) will be Saved after that as some Jews must bear the full two Ages punishment (in Aeon1-now or Aeon-2-SeventhDay next) for the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit first before ‘All Sins of Men are Forgiven eventually’ (as our Most Blessed Saviour Implied in Matthew 12:31 – 32).
iii. Context for Romans 5:18 – 19 and Romans 3:19 – 26 – Judgment Day
“… But again, lest anyone should be deterred, and say that an increase of sin was caused by the Law, and that the Law not only did not profit but was even injurious, he has a consolation for his solicitude, because although by the Law sin abounded, grace did much more abound [Romans 5:20]. And now let us consider the meaning of this. … Hence too the Lord came in obedience that He might loose the knot of disobedience and of man’s transgression. And so, as by disobedience sin entered, so by obedience sin was remitted. Wherefore the Apostle also says, For as by one man’s disobedience [THE]* MANY were made SINNERS, so by the obedience of one shall [THE] MANY be made righteous [Romans 5:19] … and then this Law succeeded, that by its written precepts it might cite us before it, and every mouth be stopped, and all the world become guilty before God [Romans 3:19] … which has made ALL SINNERS [Romans 3:23], would seem to have been injurious… But when the Lord Jesus came, He FORGAVE ALL MEN that sin which none could escape [Romans 3:22**], and blotted out the handwriting against us by the shedding of His own Blood. This then is the APOSTLE’s MEANING; sin abounded by the Law, but grace abounded by Jesus [Romans 5:20]; for AFTER that the WHOLE WORLD became GUILTY [Romans 3:19], He TOOK AWAY the SIN of the WHOLE WORLD, as John bore witness, saying: Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world [John 1:29]. Wherefore let no man glory in works, for by his works no man shall be justified, for he that is just hath a FREE GIFT, for he is justified by the Bath. It is faith then which delivers by the blood of Christ, for Blessed is the man to whom sin is remitted, and, PARDON GRANTED…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, LETTER LXXII, AMBROSE TO CONSTANTIUS, Points 7, 8, 10, 11 )
Source:
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/ambrose_letters_08_letters71_80.htm
*Koine Greek (Original Scripture): [the many] and not [many]. ‘The Many’ points to everyone except Adam (the ‘one man’s disobedience’) as the sin was Imputed from him while likewise Christ’s Work (the ‘One Man’s Obedience’) Imputes the same ‘The Many’ [All Men who were made sinners due to Adam] to be ‘made righteous again’ (Romans 5:19). Adam is included as the Previous Verse in Romans 5:18 specifies this Work of Christ as applying to ALL MEN or the WHOLE HUMAN RACE .
**by Faith of Jesus Christ which applies to ALL (Romans 3:22) and not believers only who receive it in the Present time [Romans 3:26] and this PERFECT FAITH of GOD is UNAFFECTED by anyone’s UNBELIEF (Romans 3:3 – 4). An Example discussion regarding this is in link below:
Please note carefully that St. Ambrose is revealing ‘how all men will be Saved’ eventually as Christ’s Blood applies to ‘All Men’ (Colossians 1:16) as He Will Forgive ALL MEN eventually (Colossians 1:20 too) as the Prophetic Tone of St. John the Baptist of Him taking away the ‘sin of the WHOLE WORLD’ will happen only in the FUTURE AFTER this JUDGMENT DAY as a FREE GIFT which affects the whole Human race eventually.
The phrase ‘… It is faith then which delivers by the blood of Christ, for Blessed is the man to whom sin is remitted…’ refers to Christians only because only Christians as the word ‘faith’ implies this who Come to this Forgiveness WITHOUT any AFTERLIFE JUDGMENT (John 5:24) and the rest must endure the Judgment First be it in Hades now (Hebrews 9:27) or the Lake of Fire at that time in the Resurrection of Judgment (John 5:28 – 29) coming to a Second resurrection of life only after the 1000 years are finished (Revelation 20:5).Yes, a ‘First Resurrection [to life]’ (Revelation 20:4 – 6) clearly implies that there is a ‘Second Resurrection [to life] at least’ (applying to the non-Christian dead in Revelation 20:5, implied) as St. Ambrose himself quoted that this is the Meaning in the ‘Apocalypse’ (of Apostle John’s Writing) as discussed in Point 2) earlier.
How did St. Ambrose understand the Judgment Seat of Christ?
“… For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that EVERY ONE may receive the things belonging to the body12 [2 Corinthians 5:10]. EVERY MAN’S SOUL must therefore consider that she will be rewarded according to deserts of life. And he says well the things belonging to the body, that is to say, the body which was assigned to her to govern, that if she have governed it well she may receive the reward for the sake of which she was subjected in hope, but if ill, she may be punished, forasmuch as she did not trust in God, nor aspire to that adoption of sons, and to the liberty of true glory… , and console themselves with the expectation of being delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of glory, when the adoption of the sons of God, that is, the redemption of all men, shall have arrived. For when the fulness of the Gentiles shall be come in, then all Israel shall be saved. For what people will He not pardon when He even pardons that persecuting people, who said, Crucify Him, crucify Him, and, His blood be on us and on our children. But since even the heavenly creation is subject to vanity, albeit in hope, will not He Who is ‘ truly Mercy itself and the Redeemer of the world, suffer even the perfidy and insolence into which these men through the vanity of the world have fallen to obtain pardon?…But hereafter the sun and moon and the stars of heaven shall rest in the glory of |227 the sons of God, when God shall be all in all, He Who now in His immensity and mercy is in thee and in us…”: – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, LETTER XXXIV, AMBROSE TO HORONTIANUS, Points 5, 8, 9 )
Source:
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/ambrose_letters_04_letters31_40.htm
Note: There is only One Judgment Seat of Christ and not two as some modern theologians err with no Scripture. Also, there are Two Resurrections to life as implied in Revelation 20:5 and because the former one being called the ‘First Resurrection [to life]’ (Revelation 20:4 – 6) itself proves that there is at least another.
Please also note that St. Ambrose clearly implies that the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) refers to the Great White Throne of Judgment in Revelation 20:11 – 15 as his phrases as follows prove:
– ‘EVERY ONE’ or ‘EVERY MAN’s SOUL is Present’ = All Men or the whole human race is Present there
– where he clearly argues that some may be punished for not believing in Christ , his phrase “… she may be punished, forasmuch as she did not trust in God, nor aspire to that adoption of sons…” as the ‘adoption of sons refers to the full Christian Salvation as His Bride toward the First Resurrection’ (Romans 8:19, Revelation 20:4 – 6).
– ‘that is, the redemption of all men, shall have arrived. For when the fulness of the Gentiles shall be come in, then all Israel shall be saved.’ = Next, he states here that the Redemption of ‘All Men’ (or the whole Human race) in Order of Grace as it begins at this Judgment henceforth where ‘redemption or Salvation refers to being Resurrected or soul given a sinless body eventually which applies to ‘the fulness of the Gentiles’ (all Gentiles or non-Jews will eventually be Saved, Romans 11:25) & ‘all Israel will be Saved too’ (all Jews as well eventually in that order, Romans 11:26)
– No one is excluded from this Universal Pardon (after atmost the next age, AEON2, Matthew 12:31 – 32) as it includes even the Pharisees who Blasphemed His Holy Spirit who cried out that the Guilt of Slaying His Innocent Blood be upon them as St. Ambrose remarks as follows = “… For what people will He not pardon when He even pardons that persecuting people, who said, Crucify Him, crucify Him, and, His blood be on us and on our children….”
– Manifestly, the Universal Salvation part of being set free from sin to being in the sinless liberty from the Christians’s Salvation (Sons of God’s Salvation, this aspect is shared out, Romans 8:19 – 22) becomes applied to all creation next in its own times till God finally becomes ‘All in All’ (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28) = as St. Ambrose says likewise, “… But hereafter the sun and moon and the stars of heaven shall rest in the glory of |227 the sons of God, when God shall be all in all,…”
Comment: Since St. Ambrose clearly refers to only One Judgment Seat of Christ, the Verses below must thus Prove that Salvation is Possible by the Lake of Fire as the Phrase “but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire” means.
“each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 3:13 – 15, NASB)
Please note that some modern Christian interpretations that this refers to some Christians being Saved by fire is NOT consistent with St. Ambrose’s quote nor with the Bible because: every Christians is a type of ‘Good Seed sown on a good soil which yields either a thirty, sixty or a hundredfold increase’ (Matthew 13:8, 23) as Uttered by our Most Blessed Lord Himself which proves that there is NO CHRISTIAN with ZERO WORKS or ‘whose work is burned up’ ending up with only a GENERAL (Basic) SALVATION which is ‘but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire’ as apostle Paul himself points this Salvation out above from the Lake of Fire on Judgment Day post the ‘Destruction of Body + Soul in Gehenna (Lake of Fire, Matthew 10:28)’. These ones are those St. Ambrose implies that will be given a Second Resurrection to life after the Disciplining as his quote from Ancient Theology proves in Point 2) prior together with Revelation 20:5. Also, Christians do NOT endure any Judgment (John 5:24) meaning that they will experience only reward when they walk through the Lake of Fire (not being harmed by it in ANY WAY, Revelation 2:11) implying further that ‘a Christian Work cannot be Burned Up or hurt in ANY WAY’ as it did here toward ‘such men’ in Verses above.
In the following quote St. Ambrose describes what happens to a ‘namesake Christian on Judgment Day before His Great White Throne of Judgment (hence an example of the ‘unsaved to be part of a Christian/His Bride’ but ‘being a Jew’ may be Saved by Fire as earlier quotes imply), right’?
“… What then was the cause of this difference, but human diversity? He knew the Jews to be a stiff-necked people, prone to fall, base, inclined to unbelief, that heard with the ear but understood not, that saw with their eyes but perceived not, fickle with the instability of infancy, and heedless of commands; … Lay not up wealth, O miser; lest you should become in mere name only a Christian, in work a Jew, perceiving that your burthens are a punishment to you. For it has been said to you, not in the shade but in the sun, If any man’s work abide, he shall receive a reward, if any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss [ 1 Corinthians 3:13 – 15]. 9. And therefore, as a perfect man, taught in the Law, confirmed in the Gospel, receive the faith of both Testaments. …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, LETTER LXXIV, AMBROSE TO IRENAEUS, Points 3, 8, 9 )
Source:
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/ambrose_letters_08_letters71_80.htm
Please note clearly that St. Ambrose’s definition of ‘Jew’ (in the flesh, implied) refers to those who are still practicing one of the following ‘… a stiff-necked people, prone to fall, base, inclined to unbelief, that heard with the ear but understood not, that saw with their eyes but perceived not, fickle with the instability of infancy, and heedless of commands …’ whom he Equates a ‘namesake Christian into that Category’ just a few points later (in Context) which proves that such ones ‘may be saved by fire’ (earlier quote above) but must endure ‘a loss, works burned’ & also a ‘punishment’ accordingly as St. Ambrose says, ‘… in mere name only a Christian, in work a Jew, perceiving that your burthens are a PUNISHMENT to you…’. Christians, on the other hand, cannot be harmed by the Lake of Fire in ANY WAY (Revelation 2:11, more so in Punishment or Judgment, in John 5:24 too) but only toward such ones who are still considered at a ‘Jew in the flesh level’. Can you see it?
How did St. Ambrose understand when Christ Says that He Judges not those who don’t receive His Words in John 12:47 and that He Judges no one in John 8:15 being Perfect?
“… In a mystical sense it is well said to the Jews: I judge you not [John 12:47, John 8:15], that is, I, the Universal Saviour, I, who am the Remission of sins, judge you not, for ye have not received Me. I judge you not, I freely pardon you. I, who by My Blood redeem sinners, judge you not. I judge you not, for I would not the death but the life of a sinner. I judge you not, for I condemn not but justify those who confess their sins. Moses accuses you [John 5:45*], he in whom you trust convicts you. He can accuse you, he cannot judge you, this is reserved to his Creator. He then in whom ye trust accuses you, He in Whom ye would not trust absolves you. O great folly of the Jews! Rightly are they accused of their crimes, for they have chosen one who accuses them [John 12:48], and have rejected a merciful Judge [John 12:47]; and therefore they are without absolution, but not without punishment…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, LETTER LXXVII,AMBROSE TO HORONTIANUS, Points 13, 14 )
Source:
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/ambrose_letters_08_letters71_80.htm
*Moses (like us Christians, the ‘Chosen ones’) are those who judge the non-believers as ‘the other’ in John 12:48 who are given this right to Judge them till the last penny (our choice, John 20:23) as St. Ambrose concludes thus regarding them in the above, “… and therefore they are without absolution, but not without punishment …”. Yes this ‘absolution & punishment’ holds till the last penny (in Gehenna, Matthew 5:20 – 26, Luke 12:46 – 59) until these
unbelieving/Unrepentant Jews till Judgment Day as Moses Accuses them there’ (Context) may come to Christ Who is Greater than Moses & us (Christians) in whom the Hope of ‘Absolution’ (i.e. the act of forgiving someone) remains as St. Ambrose whispered earlier as “… He can accuse you, he cannot judge you, this is reserved to his Creator. He then in whom ye trust accuses you, He in Whom ye would not trust absolves you….” implying clearly that when they confess/ackowledge their sins eventually, they may be ‘absolved’ likewise, as St. Ambrose implies “…. I judge you not, for I condemn not but justify those who confess their sins…” which happens to all men eventually as his other quotes using Bible Verses clearly demonstrates as we have seen (and more below., next).
Conclusion – Will Basic (General) Salvation or Common Redemption come to Pass for All Men (the Whole Human Race) or just the Elect only?
“… Or what is so in accordance with piety as to understand according to the MYSTERY that it was revealed by the mouth of Isaiah that ALL MEN should be CLEANSED by the passion of Christ, Who as a coal according to the flesh burnt up our sins, as you read in Zechariah: “Is not this a brand cast forth from the fire? And that was Joshua clothed in filthy garments.” [Zechariah 3:1 – 3]. Lastly, that we may know that this MYSTERY of the COMMON REDEMPTION was most clearly revealed by the prophets, you have also in this place: “Lo, it hath taken away thy sins;” not that Christ put aside His sins Who did no sin, but that in the flesh of Christ the WHOLE HUMAN RACE should be LOOSED from THEIR SINS ….” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 113, Point 114, Chapter 10, Page 294)
Source:
Verse:
“For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. ” – apostle Paul (Romans 8:19 – 22, NASB)
Please note these Phrases from the Last Verse above:
‘revealing of the sons of God’ = Revealing of His Bride (Christians) during the First Resurrection (Revelation 20:4 – 6, Luke 20:36 – 36)
‘that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.’ = The ‘Common Redemption’ (in St. Ambrose’s quote above) where All Men (i.e. the ‘whole human race’) too will be ‘set free from sin to be sinless again’ as this part/aspect of the Christian Salvation (i.e. ‘liberty from sin’ is shared by all men, via Purification in the Lake of Fire too), to quote:
Salvation for All Men some only after the Fire kindled (Luke 12:46 – 49 referring to Gehenna or Lake of Fire till the Last Penny, Luke 12:57 – 59) as St. Athanasius quotes likewise His Purification of Fire toward ALL MEN (believers in this life while the rest purified via that Fire as Athanasius quotes Luke 12:49 linking this Context) below:
“Jobni,9. as in darkness, not having that LIGHT which lighteth EVERY MAN that cometh into the WORLD. Now a fire such as this laid hold of Jeremiah the prophet, when the word was in Jer. 20,9. him as a fire, and he said, * I pass away from every place, and am not able to endure it. And our Lord Jesus Christ, in that He was good and man-loving, came that He might Luke 12, cast this upon earth, and said, And what? would that it were already kindled 1 ! For He desired, as He testified in Ezek. 18, Ezekiel, the repentance of a man rather than his death ; so that EVIL should be CONSUMED in ALL MEN, to the END that the SOUL, being PURIFIED, might be able to bring forth fruit ;” – St. Athanasius the Great (c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD, Festal Letter 25)
Source:
The General Salvation of All Men (1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 4:10) referring to the being Sinless Glorious Liberty of the ‘sons of God’ (this part of the Christian Salvation is promised toward All Creation too eventually as Prophesied in Romans 8:19 – 22), is contrasted from the ‘Good Soil believers Salvation of the thirty, sixty & hundred fold’, to quote:
“… The Divine grace variously distributed… Further also, when the word is sown, it does not yield a uniform produce of fruit in this human life, but one various and rich ; for it bringeth forth, some an hundred j^nd some Matt.] 3, 8. sixty, and some thirty 7 , as the Saviour teaches — that Sower of grace, and Bestower of the Spirit … Nor is the grace confined to the perfect alone; but it is sent down also among those who occupy the middle and the third ranks, so that He might RESCUE ALL MEN GENERALLY to SALVATION…” – St. Athanasius the Great (c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD, Festal Letter 70 – 71)
Source:
Comment: In the last quote above, St. Athanasius is revealing that the Grace of God Works in different Ways beginning with the Perfect (Hundredfold Seed) to the Second Rank (Sixty Fold Seed) to the Third Rank (Thirty Fold Seed) and lastly toward a ‘General Salvation which Rescues ALL MEN to be sinless again (implied)’. Right?
iii. ‘For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now’ = being ‘Born Again’ for example the ‘soul made new’ after being destroyed in Gehenna (in the Lake of Fire) for some is part of the Process as Christ’s Making them Alive applies to All as the Common Salvation Promised toward the Whole Human Race eventually, to quote:
“… … 6. Shall not God much more spare His own creatures, that they be not led astray from Him and serve things of nought? especially since such going ASTRAY proves the CAUSE of THEIR RUIN and UNDOING, and since it was UNFITTING that THEY should PERISH which had once been PARTAKERS of GOD’S IMAGE. 7. What then was GOD to DO? or what was to be done SAVE the RENEWING of THAT WHICH WAS in God’s image, so that by it MEN might ONCE MORE be able to know Him? But how could this have come to pass save by the presence of the very Image of God, our Lord Jesus Christ? For by men’s means it was impossible, since they are but made after an image; nor by angels either, for not even they are (God’s) images. Whence the Word of God came in His own person, that, as He was the Image of the Father, He might be able to CREATE AFRESH the MAN after the IMAGE. 8. But, again, it could not else have taken place had NOT DEATH and CORRUPTION been DONE AWAY. 9. Whence He took, in natural fitness, a mortal body, that while DEATH might in it be once for all done away, MEN MADE after His Image might ONCE MORE be RENEWED. None other then was sufficient for this need, save the Image of the Father… in the same way also the most holy Son of the Father, being the Image of the Father, came to our region to RENEW MAN once made in His likeness, and find him, as one lost, by the remission of sins; as He says Himself in the Gospels: “I came238 to FIND and to SAVE the LOST.” Whence He said to the Jews also: “Except239 a man be BORN AGAIN,” not meaning, 44as they thought, birth from woman, but speaking of the SOUL BORN and CREATED ANEW in the likeness of God’s image. … ” St. Athanasius the Great (c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD),
(Quotes above – Section 13.6 – 9, Point 14.2, in Consecutive-Order of Context from the ‘On the Incarnation’ Book)
Section 13
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.xiii.html
Section 14
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.xiv.html
‘ the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now’ = Christ’s Making New of All Things keeps ‘Nothing excepted’ (or nothing left out from among created things) as this Context using this Verse is clear from St. Ambrose’s quote below:
Does the Preaching of the Gospel Apply and Heal All Creation eventually as Mark 16:15 or Romans 8:20 – 22 Says?
Yes, to quote:
“… for we have heard the passage read where the Lord saith: “Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel to all creation.” He Who saith “all creation” excepts nothing. How, then, do they stand who call Christ a “creature”? If He were a creature, could He have commanded that the Gospel should be preached to Himself? It is not, therefore, a creature, but the Creator, Who commits to His disciples the work of teaching created beings. Christ, then, is no created being; for “created beings are,” as the Apostle hath said, “given over to vanity.” Is Christ given over into vanity? Again, “creation” — according to the same Apostle — “groans and travails together even until now.” What, then? Doth Christ take any part in this groaning and travailing — He Who hath set us miserable mourners free from death? “Creation,” saith the Apostle, “shall be set free from the slavery of corruption.” We see, then, that between creation and its Lord there is a vast difference for creation is enslaved, but “the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.” Who was it that led first into this error, of declaring Him Who created and made all things to be a creature? Did the Lord, I would ask, create Himself? We read that “all things were made by Him, and without Him was nothing made.” This being so, did He make Himself? We real — and who shall deny? — that in wisdom hath God made all things. If so, how can we suppose that wisdom was made in itself? …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 86 – 88 Chapter 14 Pages 519 – 520)
Source:
Here’s a Modern Reliable Christian Mystic, the late Sadhu Sundar Singh Testifying to this Same First Christianity Truth, to quote:
“THE MANIFESTATION OF GOD’S LOVE – Then another of the saints said, “All the inhabitants of heaven know that God is Love, but it had been hidden from all eternity that His love is so wonderful that He would become man to save sinners, and for their cleansing would die on the Cross. He suffered thus that He might save men, and all creation, which is in subjection to vanity. Thus God, in becoming man, has shown His heart to His children, but had any other means been used His infinite love would have remained forever hidden. “Now the whole creation, with earnest expectation, awaits the manifestation of the sons of God, when they shall be again restored and glorified. But, at present, they, and all creation, will remain groaning and travailing till this new creation comes to pass. And those also who have been born again groan within themselves, waiting for the redemption of the body; and the time approaches when the whole creation, being obedient to God in all things, will be freed from corruption, and from this vanity forever. Then will it remain eternally happy in God, and will fulfill in itself the purpose for which it was created. Then God will be all in all” (Rom. 8:18-23).”
Source:
https://reluctant-messenger.com/sadhu-sundar-singh.htm
The Heretics from the WHOLE HUMAN RACE too will eventually be Saved after they submit to Him and God becomes All in All (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28). Yes, God will be ‘All in All’ after even all the current heretics & enemies of the faith finally SUBJECT & BELIEVE in His TRUTH eventually as the Context of ‘All Peoples’ means below implying Universal Salvation Clearly in the End, to quote:
“… For HE is the FOUNDATION of ALL, and is the head of the Church, in Whom our common nature according to the flesh has merited the right to the heavenly throne. For the flesh is honored as having a share in Christ Who is God, and the nature of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE is HONORED as HAVING a SHARE in the FLESH . As we then sit in Him by fellowship in our fleshly nature, so also He, Who through the assumption of our flesh was made a curse for us (seeing that a curse could not fall upon the blessed Son of God), so, I say, He through the OBEDIENCE of ALL will become subject in us; when the GENTILE has BELIEVED, and the JEW has ACKNOWLEDGED Him Whom he CRUCIFIED; when the MANICHAEN has WORSHIPED Him, Whom he has NOT BELIEVED to have come in the flesh; when the ARIAN has CONFESSED Him to be Almighty, Whom HE has DENIED; when, lastly, the wisdom of God, His justice, peace, love, RESURRECTION, is IN ALL. Through His own works and through the manifold forms of virtues Christ will be in us in subjection to the Father. And when, with VICE RENOUNCED and CRIME at an END, one spirit in the HEART of ALL PEOPLES has begun to cleave to God in all things, then will God be ALL and in ALL …” – Archbishop Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Page 725, Chapter 14, Point 180 – Point 181)
Source:
https://archive.org/stream/St.AmbroseSelectedWorksAndLetters/st_amb
All Glory to God in Flesh, Lord Jesus Christ both now and unto the ages of Ages & to All Ages. Amen.
Peace to you
Universal Reconciliation of All Men by Lord Jesus Christ through the eyes of Archbishop Ambrose of Milan
Please note that Archbishop Saint Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD) was the first latin Doctor of the Church (a title given retrospectively for his immense contributions in theology). He is the one who converted even St. Augustine of Hippo (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD) though the latter seem to have deviated from the Christ Centered Universalism as held by his teacher. Well, no disciple is above his teacher (Luke 6:40), link below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_the_Church (Second on this list though he was a few hundred years before St. Gregory itself who is placed first on this non-timeline based link)
Please consider a brief discussion below regarding some interesting Bible Verses by St. Ambrose himself in his own words/writing for further Edification:
1) Context for the ‘Destruction of Body + Soul’ in Matthew 10:28 in Gehenna (or the Lake of Fire, the Final Judgment)
“… Although what has been said sufficiently shows how inclined the Lord Jesus is to mercy, let Him further instruct us with His own words, when He would arm us against the assaults of persecution. “Fear not,” He says, “those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul, but rather fear Him Who can cast both body and soul into hell.” … Who will not cast off for ever
even those whom He casts off? For David says: “God will not cast off for ever,” and in opposition to this shall we listen to heresy asserting, “He does cast off for ever”? David says: “God will not for ever cut off His mercy from generation to generation, nor will He forget to be merciful.” This is the prophet’s declaration, and there are those who would maintain
a forgetfulness of mercy on God’s part… ” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 15, Point 20, Chapter 4, Page 776 – 777)
Source:
Comment: St. Ambrose’s quote above clearly shows that even in the context of the ones being ‘Cast Off’ by the Lord (e.g. the Wicked on Judgment Day, Matthew 25:46) are NOT Cast off ‘for ever’ by Him because His MERCY can and will ‘cancel’ that Sentence after they Repent as quoted in the Context of Hell (Gehenna, the Lake of Fire) too. The points I’m not quoting in St. Ambrose’s writing above (which you can read in link above) points to his comparison somewhat crudely put like this: ‘… Do you think that Christ is going to reject the Christians who might have denied Him whilst being tortured succumbing to pain? No because even toward the ones whom He has Cast Off the Lord has NOT intended such ones with Voluntary denial itself to remain Cast Off Forever away from him!…’ (If you don’t believe me that this is what St. Ambrose means in that entire Chapter 4, please read it for yourself to see whether I am Speaking the Truth or have misunderstood him – Checking Sermons/Scripture is a ‘Noble’ Attitude, Acts 17:11).
Please also note that St. Ambrose calls it a ‘heresy’ to limit God’s Mercy which is Renewed from ‘generation to generation’ (or from a time period to another as He Wills) —> in his words above, “… and in opposition to this shall we listen to heresy asserting, “He does cast off for ever”? …” referring to THOSE who are CAST OFF from Him (the punished unrepentant ones, implied), to quote in his words from the above again, “… Who will not cast off for ever even those whom He casts off? For David says: “God will not cast off for ever,” … David says: “God will not for ever cut off His mercy from generation to generation, nor will He forget to be merciful.” This is the prophet’s declaration, and there are those who would maintain a forgetfulness of mercy on God’s part…”.
2) The Doctrine of Eternal Unforgiveness is a Perversity to God Who Punishes to Correct only as St. Ambrose Explains
“… And what perversity it is to claim for yourselves what can be forgiven, and, as you say, to reserve to God what cannot be forgiven. This would be to reserve to oneself the cases for mercy, to God those for severity. And what as to that saying: “Let God be true but every man a liar, as it is written, That Thou mightest be justified in Thy words, and overcome when Thou art judged”? In order, then, that we may recognize that the God of mercy is rather prone to indulgence than to severity, it is said: “I desire mercy rather than sacrifice.” How, then, can your sacrifice, who refuse mercy, be acceptable to God, since He says that He wills not the death of a sinner, but his correction? …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 11, Chapter 3, Page 773 – 774)
Source:
3) The Wicked can be Saved by the Prayers of the Righteous even in the Context of the Book of Life as St. Ambrose explains
“… And this confession is indeed rightly made by them, for they have not the succession of Peter, who hold not the chair of Peter, which they rend by wicked schism; and this, too, they do, wickedly denying that sins can be forgiven even in the Church, whereas it was said to Peter: “I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatsoever thou shall
loose on earth shall be loosed also in heaven.” And the vessel of divine election himself said: “If ye have forgiven anything to any one, I forgive also, for what I have forgiven I have done it for your sakes in the person of Christ.” Why, then, do they read Paul’s writings, if they think that he has erred so wickedly as to claim for himself the right of his Lord? But he claimed what he had received, he did not usurp that which was not due to him. It was the Lord’s will to confer great gifts on His disciples. Further, the Novatians confute themselves by the practices of laying on of hands and of baptism, since it is by the same power that sins are remitted in penance and in baptism. Their conduct is then contrasted with that of our Lord… It is the will of the Lord that His disciples should possess great powers; it is His will that the same things which He did when on earth should be done in His Name by His servants. For He said: “Ye shall do greater things than these. … We must then understand in the same manner, “Who shall entreat for him?” as implying: It must be some one of excellent life who shall entreat for him who has sinned against the Lord. The greater the sin, the more worthy must be the prayers that are sought. For it was not any one of the common people who prayed for the Jewish people, but Moses, when forgetful of their covenant they worshipped the head of the calf. Was Moses wrong? Certainly he was not wrong in praying, who both merited and obtained that for which he asked. For what should such love not obtain as that of his when he offered himself for the people and said: “And now, if Thou wilt forgive their sin, forgive; but if not, blot me out of the book of life.” We see that he does not think of himself, like a man full of fancies and scruples, whether he may incur the risk of some offense, as Novatian says he dreads that he might, but rather, thinking of all and forgetful of himself, he was not afraid test he should offend, so that he might rescue and free the people from danger of offense. Rightly, then, is it said: “Who shall entreat for him?” It implies that it must be such an one as Moses to offer himself for those who sin, or such as Jeremiah, who, though the Lord said to him, “Pray not thou for this people,” and yet he prayed and obtained their forgiveness. For at the intercession of the prophet, and the entreaty of so great a seer, the Lord was moved and said to Jerusalem, which had meanwhile repented for its sins, and had said: “O Almighty Lord God of Israel, the soul in anguish, and the troubled spirit crieth unto Thee, hear, O Lord, and have mercy.” And the Lord bids them lay aside the garments of mourning, and to cease the groanings of repentance, saying: “Put off, O Jerusalem, the garment of thy mourning and affliction, and clothe thyself in beauty, the glory which God hath given thee for ever.” ” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 33 – 34 Chapter 7 – 8 Pages 783 – 784, Points 42 – 4 Chapter 9, Page 787)
Source:
Comment: Please note carefully that in these Chapters (if you read it in full), you will see that St. Ambrose is drawing Deep Scriptural Truths in that God has given the Decision for Forgiveness in Judgment toward us (Christian, the Bride) especially those saints (apostles, prophets etc.) who are of great worth who may PRAY that the sin of the fallen be forgiven as Moses’ quote of ‘let me be blotted out of the Book of Life’ if You (God) don’t want to Forgive them (these sinners)’ proves SYMBOLICALLY toward this Fulfillment in Christ as Lord Jesus Christ Himself Weeping over Jerusalem likewise Purchased in His Prayer the eventual Forgiveness of all sins of Jerusalem PROPHETICALLY in ADVANCE as they WILL REPENT eventually (in the afterlife, implied) as it is written clearly in the quotes above, right?
4) Praying for the Salvation of ALL MEN is Biblical
Firstly, didn’t St. John the Blessed apostle of Christ forbid that we must not pray for some sinning unto death in 1 John 5:16 – 17?
This is what St. Ambrose says is the Meaning of that Verse:
“… St. John did not absolutely forbid that prayer should be made for those who “sin unto death,” since he knew that Moses, Jeremiah, and Stephen had so prayed, and he himself implies that forgiveness is not to be denied them. Such intercessors, then, must be sought for after very grievous sins, for if any ordinary persons pray they are not heard. So that point of yours will have no weight, which you take from the Epistle of John, where he says: “He who knows that his brother sinneth a sin not unto death, let him ask, and God will give him life, because he sinned not unto death. There is a sin unto death: not concerning it do I say, let him ask.” He was not speaking to Moses and Jeremiah, but to the people, who must seek another intercessor for their sins; the people, for whom it is sufficient they entreat God for their lighter faults, and consider that pardon for weightier sins must be reserved for the prayers of the just. For how could John say that graver sins should not be prayed for, when he had read that Moses prayed and obtained his request, where there had been willful casting off of faith, and knew that Jeremiah also had entreated? How could John say that we should not pray for the sin unto death, who himself in the Apocalypse wrote the message to the angel of the Church of Pergamos? “Thou hast there those that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to put a stumbling-block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrines of the Nicolaitans. Repent likewise, or else I will come to thee quickly.” Do you see that the lame God Who requires repentance promises forgiveness? And then He says: “He that hath ears let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches: To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna.” Did not John himself know that Stephen prayed for his persecutors, who had not been able even to listen to the Name of Christ, when he said of those very men by whom he was being stoned: “Lord, lay not this sin to their charge”? And we see the result of this prayer in the case of the Apostle, for Paul, who kept the garments of those who were stoning Stephen, not long after became an apostle by the grace of God, having before been a persecutor…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 43 – 47 Chapter 10 Pages 788 – 789)
Source:
5) How about those Christians who have Committed a Sin unto Death (1 John 5:16)?
They will be Saved in the Soul too as St. Ambrose explains:
“… They who have committed a “sin unto death” are not to be abandoned, but subjected to penance, according to St. Paul. Explanation of the phrase “Deliver unto Satan.” Satan can afflict the body, but these afflictions bring spiritual profit, showing the power of God, Who thus turns Satan’s devices against himself. . Lastly, Paul teaches us that we must not abandon those who have committed a sin unto death, but that we must rather coerce them with the bread of tears and tears to drink, yet so that their sorrow itself be moderated. For this is the meaning of the passage: “Thou hast given them to drink in large measure,” that their sorrow itself should have its measure, lest perchance he who is doing penance should be consumed by overmuch sorrow, as was said to the Corinthians: “What will ye? Shall I come to you with a rod, or in love and a spirit of meekness?” But even the rod is not severe, since he had read: “Thou shalt beat him indeed with the rod, but shalt deliver his soul from death.” … and lastly, his sentence on the guilty person, that he should be excluded from communion, and delivered to the adversary, not for the destruction of the soul but of the flesh. For as the Lord did not give power to Satan over the soul of holy Job, but allowed him to afflict his body, so here, too, the sinner is delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the serpent might lick the dust of his flesh, but not hurt his soul…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 58 – 60 Chapter 13 Pages 794)
Only Satan is deceived by this Wonderful Arrangement of Judgment by God as St. Ambrose continues:
“… Having explained Paul’s meaning, let us now consider the words themselves, in what sense he said that he had delivered him to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, for the devil it is who tries us. For he brings ailments on each of our limbs, and sickness on our whole bodies… This the Apostle took up in the same words, giving up this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit might be saved in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ… The devil is then deceived so as to wound himself with his own bite, and to arm against himself him whom he thought to weaken. So he armed holy Job the more after he wounded him, who, with his whole, body covered with sores, endured indeed the bite of the devil, but felt not his poison. And so it is well said of him, “Thou shalt draw out the dragon with an hook, thou wilt play with him as with a bird, thou shall bind him as a boy doth a sparrow, thou shalt lay thine hand upon him.” You see how he is mocked by Paul, so that, like the child in prophecy, he lays his hand on the hole of the asp, and the serpent injures him not; he draws him out of his hiding-places, and makes of his venom a spiritual antidote, so that what is venom becomes a medicine, the venom serves to the destruction of the flesh, it becomes medicine to the healing of the spirit. For that which hurts the body benefits the spirit…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 62, 64, 65 Chapter 13 Pages 795)
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6) Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit – Unforgiven to Two Ages only or Two Eternity (Matthew 12:31 – 32)?
“… But we have heard that you are accustomed to bring forward as an objection that which is written: “Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men, but blasphemies against the Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him, but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in that which is to come.” By which quotation the whole of your assertion is destroyed and done away, for it is written: “Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men.” Why, then, do you not remit them? Why do you bind chains which you do not loose? Why do you tie knots which you do not unfasten? Forgive the others, and deal with those who you think are bound for ever by the authority of the Gospel for sinning against the Holy Spirit… Now we see plainly here that the words are expressly used of those who were saying that the Lord Jesus cast out devils through Beelzebub, to whom the Lord gave that answer, because they were of the heritage of Satan, who compared the Savior of all to Satan, and attributed the grace of Christ to the kingdom of the devil. And that we might know that He was speaking of this blasphemy, He added: “O generation of vipers, how can ye speak good, being yourselves evil?” He says, then, that those who thus speak attain not to forgiveness…. Then, when Simon, depraved by long practice of magic, had thought he could gain by money the power of conferring the grace of Christ and the infusion of the Holy Spirit, Peter said “Thou hast neither part nor lot in this faith, for thy heart is not right with God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray the Lord, if per-chance this thought of thy heart may be forgiven thee, for I see that thou art in the bond of iniquity and in the bitterness of gall.” We see that Peter by his apostolic authority condemns him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit through magic vanity, and all the more because he had not the clear consciousness of faith. And yet he did not exclude him from the hope of forgiveness, for he called him to repentance. . The Lord then replies to the blasphemy of the Pharisees, and refuses to them the grace of His power, which consists in the remission of sins, because they asserted that His heavenly power rested on the help of the devil. And He affirms that they act with satanic spirit who divide the Church of God, so that He includes the heretics and schismatics of all times, to whom He denies forgiveness, for every other sin is concerned with single persons, this is a sin against all. For they alone wish to destroy the grace of Christ who rend asunder the members of the Church for which the Lord Jesus suffered, and the Holy Spirit was given us. Lastly, that we may know that He is speaking of those who destroy the unity of the Church, we find it written: “He that is not with Me is against Me, and he that gathered not with Me, scattereth.” And that we might know that He is speaking of these, He at once added: “Therefore I say unto you, every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men, but blasphemies against the Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men.” When He says, “Therefore say I unto you,” is it not evident that He intended the words following to be laid to heart by us beyond the others? And He rightly added: “A good tree bringeth forth good fruits, but a bad tree bringeth forth bad fruits,” for an evil association cannot produce good fruits. The tree, then, is the association; the fruits of the good tree are the children of the Church. Return, then, to the Church, those of you who have wickedly separated yourselves. For He promises forgiveness to all who are converted, since it is written: “Whosoever shall call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved.” And lastly, the Jewish people who said of the Lord Jesus, “He hath a devil,” and “He casteth out devils through Beelzebub,” and who crucified the Lord Jesus, are, by the preaching of Peter, called to baptism, that they may put away the guilt of so great a wickedness. . But what wonder is it if you should deny salvation to others, who reject your own, though they lose nothing who seek for penance from you? For I suppose that even Judas might through the exceeding mercy of God not have been shut out from forgiveness, if he had expressed his sorrow not before the Jews but before Christ. “I have sinned,” he said, “in that I have betrayed righteous blood.” Their answer was: “What is that to us, see thou to that.” What other reply do you give, when one guilty of a smaller sin confesses his deed to you? What do you answer but this: “What is that to us, see thou to that”? The halter followed on those words, but the punishment is all the more severe, the smaller the sin is. . But if they be not converted, do you at least repent, who by many a slip have fallen from the lofty pinnacle of innocence and faith. We have a good Lord, Whose will it is to forgive all, Who called you by the prophet, and said: “I, even I, am He that blotteth out transgressions, and I will not remember, but do thou remember, and let us plead together. ” … – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 20 – 21, 23 – 29 Chapter 4 Pages 815 – 817)
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Next, whilst discussing this same Topic, St. Ambrose quotes Jeremiah 31:20’s God’s Mercy toward the most sinful Idolatrous Tribe of Israel called Ephraim (Isaiah 28:1 – 3) as a Verse to Describe that Mercy can be Shown by Divine Will toward this ‘Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit sin too eventually probably after the next Age/Aeon, Matthew 12:31 – 32’ (implied by his usage in Topic/Context), & and in the same breath the ‘Conversion of All is Prophesied’ (which is inclusive of those who have Blasphemed His Holy Spirit’ as St. Ambrose’ Topic is still this in his writing below), to quote:
“… The Novatians bring up a question from the words of the Apostle Peter. Because he said, “if perchance,” they think that he did not imply that forgiveness would be granted on repentance… Lastly, the wise men of this world, who stake all their reputation on expressions and words, do not everywhere use the Latin word forte, “perchance,” or its Greek equivalent toc%oc, as an expression of doubt. And so they say that their earliest poet used the words, which is, “I shall soon be a widow;” and the passage goes on: But he had no doubt that when all were Joining in the attack one might well be laid low by all. But let us use our own instances rather than foreign ones. You find in the Gospel that the Son Himself says of the Father (when He had sent His servants to His vineyard, and they had been slain), that the Father said, “I will send My well-beloved Son, perchance they will reverence Him.” And in another place the Son says of Himself: “Ye know neither Me nor My Father; for if ye knew Me, ye would perchance know My Father also.” … If, then, Peter used those words which were used by God without any prejudice to His knowledge, why should we not assume that Peter also used them without prejudice to his belief? For he could not doubt concerning the gift of Christ, Who had given him the power of forgiving sins; especially since he was bound not to leave any place for the craftiness of heretics who desire to deprive men of hope, in order the more easily to insinuate into the despairing their opinion as to the reiteration of baptism… Let us, then, cover our falls by our subsequent acts; let us purify ourselves by tears, that the Lord our God may hear us when we lament, as He heard Ephraim when weeping, as it is written: “I have surely heard Ephraim weeping.” And He expressly repeats the very words of Ephraim: “Thou hast chastised me and I was chastised, like a calf I was not trained.” For a calf disports itself, and leaves its stall, and so Ephraim was untrained like a calf far away from the stall; because he had forsaken the stall of the Lord, followed Jeroboam, and worshipped the calves, which future event was prophetically indicated through Aaron, namely, that the people of the Jews would fall after this manner. And so repenting, Ephraim says: “Turn Thou me, and I shall be turned, for Thou art the Lord my God. Surely in the end of my captivity I repented, and after I learned I mourned over the days of confusion, and subjected myself to Thee because I received reproach and made Thee known.” We see how to repent, with what words and with what acts, that the days of sin are called “days of confusion;” for there is confusion when Christ is denied… Let our conversion be such, that we who did not know God may now ourselves declare Him to others, that the Lord, moved by such a conversion on our part, may answer to us: “Ephraim is from youth a dear son, a pleasant child, for since My words are concerning him, I will verily remember him, therefore have I hastened to be over him; I will surely have mercy on him, saith the Lord.” And what mercy He promises us, the Lord also shows, when He says further on: “I have satiated every thirsty soul, and have satisfied every hungry soul. Therefore, I awaked and beheld, and My sleep was sweet unto Me.” We observe that the Lord promises His sacraments to those who sin. Let us, then, all be converted to the Lord… ” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 29, 32 – 34, 36 – 39, Chapter 5 Pages 818 – 821)
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“… Being then refuted by the clear example of the Apostle and by his writings, the heretics yet endeavor to resist further, and say that their opinion is supported by apostolic authority, bringing forward the passage in the Epistle to the Hebrews: “For it is impossible that those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, should if they fall away be again renewed unto repentance, crucifying again the Son of God, and put Him to open shame.” Could Paul teach in opposition to his own act? He had at Corinth forgiven sin through penance, how could he himself speak against his own decision? Since, then, he could not destroy what he had built, we must assume that what he says was different from, but not contrary to, what had gone before. For what is contrary is opposed to itself, what is different has ordinarily another meaning. Things which are contrary are not such that one can support the other. Inasmuch, then, as the Apostle spoke of remitting penance, he could not be silent as to those who thought that baptism was to be repeated. And it was right first of all to remove our anxiety, and to let us know that even after baptism, if any sinned their sins could be forgiven them, lest a false belief in a reiterated baptism should lead astray those who were destitute of all hope of forgiveness. And secondly, it was right to set forth in a well-reasoned argument that baptism is not to be repeated. And that the writer was speaking of baptism is evident from the very words in which it is stated that it is impossible to renew unto repentance those who were fallen, inasmuch as we are renewed by means of the layer of baptism, whereby we are born again, as Paul says himself: “For we are buried with Him through baptism into death, that, like as Christ rose from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we, too, should walk in newness of life.” And in another place: “Be ye renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new man which is created after God.” And elsewhere again: “Thy youth shall be renewed like the eagle,” because the eagle after death is born again from its ashes, as we being dead in sin are through the Sacrament of Baptism born again to God, and created anew. So, then, here as elsewhere, he teaches one baptism. “One faith,” he says, “one baptism.” This, too, is plain, that in him who is baptized the Son of God is crucified, for our flesh could not do away sin unless it were crucified in Jesus Christ. And then it is written that: “All we who were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death.” And farther on: “If we have been planted in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing that our old man was fastened with Him to His cross.” And to the Colossians he says: “Buried with Him by baptism, wherein ye also rose again with Him.” Which was written to the intent that we should believe that He is crucified in us, that our sins may be purged through Him, that He, Who alone can forgive sins, may nail to His cross the handwriting which was against us. In us He triumphs over principalities and powers, as it is written of Him: “He made a show of principalities and powers, triumphing over them in Himself.” . So, then, that which he says in this Epistle to the Hebrews, that it is impossible for those who have fallen to be “renewed unto repentance, crucifying again the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame,” must be considered as having reference to baptism, wherein we crucify the Son of God in ourselves, that the world may be by Him crucified for us, who triumph, as it were, when we take to ourselves the likeness of His death, who put to open shame upon His cross principalities and powers, and triumphed over them, that in the likeness of His death we, too, might triumph over the principalities whose yoke we throw off. But Christ was crucified once, and died to sin once, and so there is but one, not several baptisms. But what of the passage wherein the doctrine of baptisms is spoken of? Because under the Law there were many baptisms or washings, he rightly rebukes those who forsake what is perfect and seek again the first principles of the word. He teaches us that the whole of the washings under the Law are done away with, and that there is one baptism in the sacraments of the Church. But he exhorts us that leaving the first principles of the word we should go on to perfection. “And this,” he says, “we will do, if God permits,” for no one can be perfect without the grace of God. And indeed I might also say to any one who thought that this passage spoke of repentance, that things which are impossible with men are possible with God; and God is able whensoever He wills to forgive us our sins, even those which we think cannot be forgiven. And so it is possible for God to give us that which it seems to us impossible to obtain. For it seemed impossible that water should wash away sin, and Naaman the Syrian thought that his leprosy could not be cleansed by water. But that which was impossible God made to be possible, Who gave us so great grace. In like manner it seemed impossible that sins should be forgiven through repentance, but Christ gave this power to His apostles, which has been transmitted to the priestly office. That, then, has become possible which was impossible. But, by a true reasoning, he convinces us that the reiteration by any one of the Sacrament of Baptism is not permitted…” Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Points 6 – 12 Chapter 2 Pages 810 – 813)
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7) Does the Preaching of the Gospel Apply and Heal All Creation eventually as Mark 16:15 or Romans 8:20 – 22 Says?
Yes, to quote:
“… for we have heard the passage read where the Lord saith: “Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel to all creation.” He Who saith “all creation” excepts nothing. How, then, do they stand who call Christ a “creature”? If He were a creature, could He have commanded that the Gospel should be preached to Himself? It is not, therefore, a creature, but the Creator, Who commits to His disciples the work of teaching created beings. Christ, then, is no created being; for “created beings are,” as the Apostle hath said, “given over to vanity.” Is Christ given over into vanity? Again, “creation” — according to the same Apostle — “groans and travails together even until now.” What, then? Doth Christ take any part in this groaning and travailing — He Who hath set us miserable mourners free from death? “Creation,” saith the Apostle, “shall be set free from the slavery of corruption.” We see, then, that between creation and its Lord there is a vast difference for creation is enslaved, but “the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.” Who was it that led first into this error, of declaring Him Who created and made all things to be a creature? Did the Lord, I would ask, create Himself? We read that “all things were made by Him, and without Him was nothing made.” This being so, did He make Himself? We real — and who shall deny? — that in wisdom hath God made all things. If so, how can we suppose that wisdom was made in itself? …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 86 – 88 Chapter 14 Pages 519 – 520)
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8) Ages to Come in Ephesians 2:7 or Revelation 20:10 or in Matthew 12:31 – 32 or is the next Age (Olam/Aeon) eternal?
“… yet that I may satisfy thee on Scriptural grounds, learn that He made not only what is past, but also what is future, as it is written: “Who made things to come.” Elsewhere too Scripture says: “By whom also He made the ages, who is the brightness of His glory and the express Image of His Person.” Now the ages are past and present and future. How then were those made which are future, unless it is that His active power and knowledge contains within itself the number of all the ages? For just as He calls the things that are not as though they were, s so has He made things future as though they were. It cannot come to pass that they should not be. Those things which He has directed to be, necessarily will be. Therefore He who has made the things that are to be, knows them in the way in which they will be. If we are to believe this about the ages, much more must we believe it about the day of judgment, on the ground that the Son of God has knowledge of it, as being already made by Him. For it is written: “According to Thine ordinance the day will continue.” He did not merely say “the day continues,” but even “will continue,” so that the things which are to come might be governed by His ordinance. Does He not know what He ordered? “He who planted the ear, shall He not hear? He that formed the eye shall He not see?” …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Ambrose: Selected Works and Letters, Point 197 – 198 Chapter 4 Pages 730 – 731)
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Four phrases from the above proving this Doctrine of the Ages (Aeons/Olams) to be True: “… By whom also He made the ages … Now the ages are past and present and future … unless it is that His active power and knowledge contains within itself the number of all the ages … If we are to believe this about the ages…”
Note that the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit may not be forgiven in this present singular-age (AEON1) or until the future next-singular-age (AEON2) only and Ephesians 2:7 with St. Ambrose’s quote proves that there are “Ages [Plural] to Come” (AEON2, AEON3, … at least) where Forgiveness can be Attained in AEON3 as God Wills as per the Mystery of the Eighth Day (AEON3) which is after His Millennial Reign of the Coming Sabbath-Rest-of-the-Righteous-Seventh-Day (AEON2) as discussed in previous posts such as the one below (which agrees to St. Ambrose’s quote in Point 6 earlier emphasizing that this Blasphemy can be Forgiven eventually) :
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/amp
9) Eighth Day Mystery – Fulness of the Gentiles and All Israel will eventually be Circumcised in the Heart as All Flesh shall see the Salvation of God
“… puts off that flesh of which it is written, All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field; the grass withereth, the flower fadeth, but the word of our God shall stand for ever; and there remains the flesh which will see the salvation of God, as it is written, And all flesh shall see the salvation of God. What this flesh is cleanse your ears that you may understand… That the fulness of the Gentiles is come in is another reason, if you will attend to it carefully, why the circumcision of the foreskin ought to cease. For it was not upon the Gentiles but upon the seed of Abraham that circumcision was enjoined, for this is the first Divine promise, … which is not of thy seed, must needs be circumcised; and My covenant shall be in your flesh, for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised on the eighth day, shall be cut off from the people; he hath broken My Covenant. It is affirmed indeed that the Hebrew text, as Aquila intimates, does not contain the words ‘on the eighth day;’ but all authority does not rest with Aquila, who being a Jew has passed it by in the letter, and not inserted, ‘on the eighth day.’ Meanwhile you have heard that both the eighth day and circumcision were given for a sign; now a sign is an indication of a greater matter, a symbol of a future verity; and a covenant was given to Abraham and his seed, to whom it was said, In Isaac shall thy seed be…. Thus it is abundantly manifest that even according to the letter of the Law, although the Law be spiritual, yet that according to the very letter of the Law the Gentiles could not be obliged to observe circumcision, but that circumcision itself was a sign, until the fulness of the Gentiles should be come in, and so all Israel be saved by circumcision, not of a small portion of one member, but of the heart….” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, AMBROSE TO CONSTANTIUS, LETTER LXXII Points 21, 24, 25, 26)
Source:
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/ambrose_letters_08_letters71_80.htm
10) All Men – Jews or Gentiles will be Pardoned including those Enemies of the Faith – Context for Romans 8:19 – 22 too
“… seeing that the Lord of all humbled Himself even to death for the whole world, took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made the sin of the world, nay even a curse for us? Wherefore the heavenly bodies although they groan in that they are subject to the vanity of this world, yet follow the example of His goodness, and console themselves with the expectation of being delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of glory, when the adoption of the sons of God, that is, the redemption of all men, shall have arrived. For when the fulness of the Gentiles shall be come in, then all Israel shall be saved. For what people will He not pardon when He even pardons that persecuting people, who said, Crucify Him, crucify Him, and, His blood be on us and on our children. But since even the heavenly creation is subject to vanity, albeit in hope, will not He Who is ‘ truly Mercy itself and the Redeemer of the world, suffer even the perfidy and insolence into which these men through the vanity of the world have fallen to obtain pardon? To conclude then, both this great and glorious sun, and this moon which is not obscured by the shades of night, and these stars which are the garniture of the heaven, all these now suffer the bondage of corruption, for all creatures are corruptible, and the heavens shall perish and the heaven and earth pass away. But hereafter the sun and moon and the stars of heaven shall rest in the glory of the sons of God, when God shall be all in all, He Who now in His immensity and mercy is in thee and in us….” – Archbishop Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, AMBROSE TO CONSTANTIUS,LETTER XXXIV, Point 8 – 9)
Source:
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/ambrose_letters_04_letters31_40.htm
Focus Phrases: “… console themselves with the expectation of being delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of glory, when the adoption of the sons of God, that is, the redemption of all men, shall have arrived. For when the fulness of the Gentiles shall be come in, then all Israel shall be saved. For what people will He not pardon when He even pardons that persecuting people, who said, Crucify Him, crucify Him, and, His blood be on us and on our children….”
Comment: St. Ambrose is saying that the Beginning of the Redemption of all men Starts when the ‘sons of God’ (His Bride is Revealed during the First Resurrection, Revelation 20:4 – 6) where ‘All Men’ will share into the Glorious Liberty of being Sinless again (this Aspect of the Christian Salvation is shared with All Men as Romans 8:20 – 22 clearly imply as the ‘Birth Pangs’ hence being ‘Born Again’ of All Creation eventually) and that’s what the ‘fulness of the Gentiles’ & ‘all Israel will be Saved’ means Prophetically by that Future Time which includes even the ‘Pharisees who committed the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit sin too’ as they are the ones of whom St. Ambrose remarks that Christ’s Forgiveness will include them too in this Context as he writes, “… For what people will He not pardon when He even pardons that persecuting people, who said, Crucify Him, crucify Him, and, His blood be on us and on our children…”.
Conclusion – All in the World will Believe in Christ and be Saved in the End – Context for 1 Timothy 3:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28
“… Let us then shortly sum up our CONCLUSION on the whole matter. A unity of power puts aside all idea of a degrading subjection. His giving up of power, and His victory as conqueror won over death, have not lessened His power. Obedience works out subjection. Christ has taken obedience upon Himself, obedience even to taking on Him our flesh, the cross even to gaining our salvation. Thus where the work lies, there too is the Author of the work. When therefore, all things have become subject to Christ, through Christ’s obedience, so that ALL bend their knees in His name, then He Himself will be ALL in ALL. For NOW, since ALL do NOT BELIEVE, ALL do NOT seem to be in SUBJECTION. But WHEN ALL have BELIEVED and DONE the will of God***, then Christ will be ALL and in ALL. And when Christ is all and in all, then will God be all and in all; for the Father abides ever in the Son. How, then, is He shown to be weak, Who redeemed the weak? …” – Archbishop Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Page 726, Chapter 15, Point 182)
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***Most Fulfill this Will of God to Believe in Him only after seeing Him in the afterlife before or after the Resurrection (John 6:40, John 6:29).
Is it done? ‘Not yet’ as per Hebrews 2:8’s Context too quoted likewise by him in quote below (which is similar to St. Justin’s ‘the Wicked finally obeying/made subject to Him – as quoted earlier regarding the Mystery of the Eighth Day’):
“… Also to that same Son in His Godhead ALL THINGS have indeed been made SUBJECT; but they are said to be NOT YET subject to Him in this sense, because ALL MEN do NOT OBEY His commands. But AFTER that THEY have been MADE SUBJECT, then shall Christ also be made subject in them, and the Father’s work be perfected….” – Archbishop Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Page 717, Chapter 13, Point 152)
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Yes, God will be ‘All in All’ after even all the current heretics & enemies of the faith finally SUBJECT & BELIEVE in His TRUTH eventually as the Context of ‘All Peoples’ means below implying Universal Salvation Clearly in the End, to quote:
“… As we then sit in Him by fellowship in our fleshly nature, so also He, Who through the assumption of our flesh was made a curse for us (seeing that a curse could not fall upon the blessed Son of God), so, I say, He through the OBEDIENCE of ALL will become subject in us; when the GENTILE has BELIEVED, and the JEW has ACKNOWLEDGED Him Whom he CRUCIFIED; when the MANICHAEN has WORSHIPED Him, Whom he has not believed to have come in the flesh; when the ARIAN has CONFESSED Him to be Almighty, Whom HE has DENIED; when, lastly, the wisdom of God, His justice, peace, love, RESURRECTION, is IN ALL. Through His own works and through the manifold forms of virtues Christ will be in us in subjection to the Father. And when, with VICE RENOUNCED and CRIME at an END, one spirit in the HEART of ALL PEOPLES has begun to cleave to God in all things, then will God be ALL and in ALL …” – Archbishop Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Page 725, Chapter 14, Point 181)
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I will preach the same Truth as St. Ambrose as I don’t think that anyone following his teaching in First Christianity went to Hell either for believing in it.In fact, I dare say that it must the majority teaching likewise till St. Augustine (his convert) decided to see a lot of these Verses differently for to say that St. Augustine was following an earlier Christianity whilst St. Ambrose a latter one doesn’t make sense as the latter Converted the former & not the other way around even at that time being in a Position of Great Influence & an established Authority of Doctrine at that early time itself.
Peace to you
Saviour of All Men especially Believers – First and Second Resurrection Mystery
1) God’s Will is to Save “All Men” = The Greek in these Verses (1 Timothy 2:4, 4:10) refers to ‘every human being ever created’ and that’s why as ‘Christians or priests on behalf of All Men before God’, we ought to Give Thanks in advance for the Salvation of All Men in advance too (1 Timothy 2:1).
Verse:
“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 2:4, KJV)
2) God cannot Fail Achieving this Will because the Work of Salvation is His Work Alone
Verse:
“So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11, NASB)
In the Context of the ‘lost wicked also this restoration applies’ as the ‘lost’ in St. Ambrose’s quote below is in the Context of the Resurrection Topic meaning that ‘those lost at that time is referring to the wicked’ (quote & source in full later below):
“… and what is lost (wicked) be restored, for all these things are accomplished as soon as they are determined by the Divine Will…for with God to will is to do; nor need we enquire into the force required for the resurrection, but seek its fruit for ourselves. But those mysteries pertain not to individuals only, but to the whole human race…” ..” – St. Ambrose of Milan
I repeat, the ‘what is lost (wicked) be restored’ doesn’t just refer to the ‘righteous being resurrected perfectly’ but also to the ‘wicked’ too in their own little proportion though albeit later ‘after the disciplining’ (in the Lake of Fire) during the times in between the First and Second Resurrection as St. Ambrose’s phrase ‘ But those mysteries pertain not to individuals only, but to the whole human race’ above implies this together with his quote (or Context) for the Resurrection in full below:
“Our Savior has appointed two kinds of resurrection in the Apocalypse. ‘Blessed is he that hath part in the first resurrection,’ for such come to grace without the judgment. As for those who do not come to the first, but are reserved unto the second resurrection, these shall be disciplined until their appointed times, between the first and the second resurrection.” – Archbishop Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD)
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrose#
3) God’s Will is that None shall (remain) perished and that ALL should come to Repentance eventually
Verse:
“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” – apostle Peter (2 Peter 3:9, NASB)
4) First Christianity quote agreeing that God’s Will cannot be Changed and that He Will achieve it post whatever Judgment Discipline in the Lake of Fire for Purification too us needed first, to quote:
“91. Now the first-fruits are undoubtedly of the same nature and kind as the remaining fruits, the first of which are offered to God as a petition for a richer increase, as a holy thank-offering for all gifts, and as a kind of libation of that nature which has been restored. Christ, then, is the firstfruits of them that rest. But is this of His own who are at rest, who, as it were, freed from death, are holden by a kind of sweet slumber, or of all those who are dead? “As in Christ all die, so too in Christ shall all be made alive.” So, then, as the firstfruits of death were in Adam, so also the firstfruits of the resurrection are in Christ…
All men rise again, but let no one lose heart, and let not the just grieve at the common lot of rising again, since he awaits the chief fruit of his virtue. All indeed shall rise again, but, as says the Apostle, “each in his own order.” The fruit of the Divine Mercy is common to all, but the order of merit differs. The day gives light to all, the sun warms all, the rain fertilises the possessions of all with genial showers…
We see, then, that heaven is open to virtue, and that this is the privilege not only of a few: “For many shall come from the east and from the west, and the north and the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God,”giving expression to the enjoyment of perpetual rest since the motions of their souls are stilled.
We have seen, then, how grave an offence it is not to believe the resurrection; for if we rise not again, then Christ died in vain, then Christ rose not again. For if He rose not for us, He certainly rose not at all, for He had no need to rise for Himself. The universe rose again in Him, the heaven rose again in Him, the earth rose again in Him, for there shall be a new heaven and a new earth.
If, then, any one desires to see this Image of God, he must love God, that he may be loved by God; and be no longer a servant but a friend, because he has kept the commandments of God, that he may enter into the cloud where God is.
and what is lost be restored, for all these things are accomplished as soon as they are determined by the Divine Will…for with God to will is to do; nor need we enquire into the force required for the resurrection, but seek its fruit for ourselves.
But those mysteries pertain not to individuals only, but to the whole human race.
For it is no small light wherewith Christ encompasses His world: since “His going forth is from the height of heaven, and His progress to the height thereof, nor is there any who can hide himself from His heat.”
154 For with His Goodness He enlightens all, and wills not to reject but to amend the foolish, and desires not to exclude the hard-hearted from the Church, but to soften them. And so the Church in the Song of Songs and Christ in the Gospel invites them, saying: “Come unto Me, all ye who labour and are heavy laden, and I will refresh you; take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart.” – Archbishop Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Book II. On the Belief in the Resurrection, verses 91, 92, 101, 102, 110, 114, 115, 117).
Source:
https://www.cogwriter.com/salvation.htm
Or in this Translation Source too:
Conclusion – Two Resurrections separated by the 1000 year-Aeon-Age-Olam to come
A Discussion for Edification:
The ‘wicked being Raised for Judgment’ (John 5:28 – 29) during which the Christians are Resurrected for the First Resurrection without Judgment (Revelation 20:4 – 6) in St. Ambrose’s quote above may thus refer to Wicked’s ‘Judgment in the Lake of Fire in their Old Sinful Bodies (as St. Irenaeous of Lyons clearly pointed out – please see below*)’ till they are Resurrected again after their Aeonian Judgment Sentences are over till the last penny (Luke 12:46 – 59, Matthew 5:22 – 26) —> hence it is called the ‘Second Resurrection’ toward these ones as Revelation 20:5’s phrase ‘the rest of the dead did not come to life until after these 1000 years are finished’ may thus literally refer to ‘the rest of the dead being Made Alive by Christ’ (1 Corinthians 15:22) in their own times/order (1 Corinthians 15:23, 1 Timothy 2:6) during this ‘Second Resurrection to Life’ thereby Saving All Men by the End of next age (Matthew 12:31 – 32).
In other words the wicked being Raised to life in their old identical bodies* in John 5:28 – 29 is NOT considered a Resurrection toward them as they are still called ‘the dead’ before His Great White Throne (in Revelation 20:11 – 15 especially verse 12 and 13) even after being raised for judgment has occurred toward them as John 5:28 – 29 implies. They are still considered dead despite being raised in their old bodies because that body has not yet been ‘made alive’ by Christ being sinful so that they may endure the Lake of Fire Judgment First to Destroy both the old sinful body + soul which has sinned (Matthew 10:28) to be ‘born again’ or ‘made new in soul too’ (as this is the definition of born again according to St. Athanasius the Great**-quoted below later too).
So, the phrase ‘the dead (wicked) did not come to life after the thousand years were over’ (in Revelation 20:5) implies the Truth of St. Ambrose’s quote again that their punishment of ‘the dead (Wicked) raised in their old identical bodies for Judgment in the Lake of Fire’ (Revelation 20:11 – 15, John 5:28 – 29) —> is FOLLOWED NEXT by them COMING TO LIFE (the phrase ‘the dead (wicked) come to life after the thousand years were over’ as implied in Revelation 20:5 – Can you see it?) —-> as St. Ambrose’s quote of the regarding them being Resurrected to Life after that during the Second Resurrection (after this 1000 years), in his phrase “… As for those who do not come to the first, but are reserved unto the second resurrection, these shall be disciplined until their appointed times, between the first and the second resurrection…” means this Beautifully.
*The Wicked are raised for judgment in their previous identical sinful bodies first being called ‘the dead’ which are cast into the Lake of Fire for their Second Death of their body + soul, not spirit (John 5:28 – 29, Revelation 20:11 – 15, Matthew 10:28, 1 Corinthians 5:5, 1 Peter 4:6).
“… Again, He called Lazarus “with a loud voice, saying, Lazarus, come forth; and HE that WAS DEAD came forth bound with bandages, feet and hands.” This was SYMBOLICAL of that MAN who had been BOUND in SINS. And therefore the Lord said, “Loose him, and let him depart.” As, therefore, THOSE who were HEALED were MADE WHOLE in THOSE MEMBERS which had in TIMES PAST been AFFLICTED; and the DEAD ROSE in the IDENTICAL BODIES, their limbs and bodies receiving health, and that life which was granted by the Lord, who prefigures eternal [age-during] things by temporal, and shows that it is He who is Himself able to extend BOTH HEALING and LIFE to HIS HANDIWORK, that His words concerning its [future] RESURRECTION may also be believed; so also at the END, when the Lord utters His voice “by the last trumpet,” the dead shall be raised, as He Himself declares: “The HOUR SHALL COME, in which ALL THE DEAD which are in the TOMBS shall hear the voice of the Son of man, and shall come forth; those that have DONE GOOD to the RESURRECTION of LIFE, and those that have DONE EVIL to the RESURRECTION of JUDGMENT…” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XIII, Point 1)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
**All Men must be Born Again (the phrase ‘Renew Man once made in His likeness’ implies the context of ‘every human being ever created as all are initially created in His Image to begin with’), their souls made new including the Lost which Christ Will Find, to quote:
“… 6. Shall not God much more spare His own creatures, that they be not led astray from Him and serve things of nought? especially since such going ASTRAY proves the CAUSE of THEIR RUIN and UNDOING, and since it was UNFITTING that THEY should PERISH which had once been PARTAKERS of GOD’S IMAGE. 7. What then was GOD to DO? or what was to be done SAVE the RENEWING of THAT WHICH WAS in God’s image, so that by it MEN might ONCE MORE be able to know Him? But how could this have come to pass save by the presence of the very Image of God, our Lord Jesus Christ? For by men’s means it was impossible, since they are but made after an image; nor by angels either, for not even they are (God’s) images. Whence the Word of God came in His own person, that, as He was the Image of the Father, He might be able to CREATE AFRESH the MAN after the IMAGE. 8. But, again, it could not else have taken place had NOT DEATH and CORRUPTION been DONE AWAY. 9. Whence He took, in natural fitness, a mortal body, that while DEATH might in it be once for all done away, MEN MADE after His Image might ONCE MORE be RENEWED. None other then was sufficient for this need, save the Image of the Father… in the same way also the most holy Son of the Father, being the Image of the Father, came to our region to RENEW MAN once made in His likeness, and find him, as one lost, by the remission of sins; as He says Himself in the Gospels: “I came238 to FIND and to SAVE the LOST.” Whence He said to the Jews also: “Except239 a man be BORN AGAIN,” not meaning, 44as they thought, birth from woman, but speaking of the SOUL BORN and CREATED ANEW in the likeness of God’s image. … ” St. Athanasius the Great (c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD),
(Quotes above – Section 13.6 – 9, Point 14.2, in Consecutive-Order of Context from the ‘On the Incarnation’ Book)
Section 13
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.xiii.html
Section 14
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.xiv.html
This is seen even in St. Justin Martyr’s quote below which may point to the ‘Second Resurrection’ for the Wicked to Happen on that Eighth Day (which is after the Righteous’ Sabbath-Seventh-Day-1000 years Millennial Reign Rest of the First Resurrection) as it is implied below:
To Quote:
“… The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first. “Moreover, the prescription that twelve bells be attached to the [robe] of the high priest, which hung down to the feet, was a symbol of the twelve apostles, who depend on the power of Christ, the eternal Priest; and through their voice it is that all the earth has been filled with the glory and grace of God and of His Christ. Wherefore David also says: ‘Their sound has gone forth into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.’ And Isaiah speaks as if he were personating the apostles, when they say to Christ that they believe not in their own report, but in the power of Him who sent them. And so he says: ‘Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child. Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation. And in short, sirs,” said I, “by enumerating all the other appointments of Moses I can demonstrate that they were types, and symbols, and declarations of those things which would happen to Christ, of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him, and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself. But since what I have now enumerated appears to me to be sufficient, I revert again to the order of the discourse.” – St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER XLI & CHAPTER XLII, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Please also notice ‘carefully’ how St. Justin Martyr distinguishes the Church as One Body vs the Wicked converted as ‘One Child’ as two different entities as follows:
“…We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child … and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself …” – St. Justin Martyr
“… Such a thing as you may witness in the body:
although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation … of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him,…” – St. Justin Martyr
Please note the popular fallacy (of some) who may think that the ‘wicked referred to in quote above is the Christians before they have repented’. This is a false context as St. Justin’s phrase “… Such a thing as you may witness in the body [of Christ, the Church, implied] …” means that St. Justin is drawing an analogy toward how ‘the Wicked being converted & becoming as One Obedient/Subjected Child’ (in the Second Resurrection of the Eighth Day) is similar to the One Body as how Lord Jesus Christ First Did to His Church (in the First Resurrection during the Seventh-Sabbath Day 1000 years Millennial Reign Time, Aeon-Olam-Age to come). Can you see it?
Let us Return to the Blessed St. Ambrose (an original four Doctors of the Church) to understand what does apostle Paul mean by God being ‘All in All’ Creation in 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28?
To quote – All in the World will Believe in Christ in the End (Context for 1 Timothy 3:16) too:
“… 182. Let us then shortly sum up our CONCLUSION on the whole matter. A unity of power puts aside all idea of a degrading subjection. His giving up of power, and His victory as conqueror won over death, have not lessened His power. Obedience works out subjection. Christ has taken obedience upon Himself, obedience even to taking on Him our flesh, the cross even to gaining our salvation. Thus where the work lies, there too is the Author of the work. When therefore, all things have become subject to Christ, through Christ’s obedience, so that ALL bend their knees in His name, then He Himself will be ALL in ALL. For NOW, since ALL do NOT BELIEVE, ALL do NOT seem to be in SUBJECTION. But WHEN ALL have BELIEVED and DONE the will of God***, then Christ will be ALL and in ALL. And when Christ is all and in all, then will God be all and in all; for the Father abides ever in the Son. How, then, is He shown to be weak, Who redeemed the weak? …” – Archbishop Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Page 726, Chapter 15, Point 182)
Source:
***Most Fulfill this Will of God to Believe in Him only after seeing Him in the afterlife before or after the Resurrection (John 6:40, John 6:29).
Is it done? ‘Not yet’ as per Hebrews 2:8’s Context too quoted likewise by him in quote below (which is similar to St. Justin’s ‘the Wicked finally obeying/made subject to Him – as quoted earlier regarding the Mystery of the Eighth Day’):
“… Also to that same Son in His Godhead ALL THINGS have indeed been made SUBJECT; but they are said to be NOT YET subject to Him in this sense, because ALL MEN do NOT OBEY His commands. But AFTER that THEY have been MADE SUBJECT, then shall Christ also be made subject in them, and the Father’s work be perfected….” – Archbishop Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Page 717, Chapter 13, Point 152)
Source:
He continues:
“… ” For since by one man,'” he says, “came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s, who have believed in His coming. Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God,
even the Father, when He shall have put down all rule and authority and power. For He must reign until He hath put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death; for He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith, all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted Which did put all things under Him. But when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him, that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.” Thus also the same Apostle said to the Hebrews: “But now we see not yet all things put under Him.” We have heard the whole of the Apostle’s discourse….” – Archbishop Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Page 718, Chapter 13, Point 160)
Source:
Yes, God will be ‘All in All’ after even all the current heretics & enemies of the faith finally SUBJECT & BELIEVE in His TRUTH eventually as the Context of ‘All Peoples’ means below implying Universal Salvation Clearly in the End, to quote:
“… As we then sit in Him by fellowship in our fleshly nature, so also He, Who through the assumption of our flesh was made a curse for us (seeing that a curse could not fall upon the blessed Son of God), so, I say, He through the OBEDIENCE of ALL will become subject in us; when the GENTILE has BELIEVED, and the JEW has ACKNOWLEDGED Him Whom he CRUCIFIED; when the MANICHAEN has WORSHIPED Him, Whom he has not believed to have come in the flesh; when the ARIAN has CONFESSED Him to be Almighty, Whom HE has DENIED; when, lastly, the wisdom of God, His justice, peace, love, RESURRECTION, is IN ALL. Through His own works and through the manifold forms of virtues Christ will be in us in subjection to the Father. And when, with VICE RENOUNCED and CRIME at an END, one spirit in the HEART of ALL PEOPLES has begun to cleave to God in all things, then will God be ALL and in ALL …” – Archbishop Ambrose of Milan, Doctor of the Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Selected Works and Letters, Page 725, Chapter 14, Point 181)
Source:
This is how the New World Encyclopedia also concludes similarly regarding his theology of Christ Centered Universalism:
“… At this juncture, one is to be reminded that Ambrose was actually a Christian universalist, as was seen in the preceding section. How can his antisemitism be reconciled with his universalism? His conceivable answer to this question is his interesting universalist view that even if people such as the Jews (and also the Arians) may miss the first resurrection, they will be purified by the fire of punishment by the time of the second resurrection, and that if they miss even that chance, they will simply stay longer in the fire of punishment that will eventually purify them:
‘…Our Saviour has appointed two kinds of resurrection, in accordance with which John says, in the Apocalypse, “Blessed is he that hath part in the first resurrection”; for such come to grace without the judgment. As for those who do not come to the first, but are reserved until the second resurrection, these shall be burnt, until they fulfill their appointed times, between the first and the second resurrection; or, if they should not have fulfilled them then, they shall remain still longer in punishment … ‘ St. Ambrose of Milan ”
Source:
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ambrose
Most Blessed be Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of All Men, especially believers!
Peace to you
Christ Centered Universalism in Full – First Christianity via St. Athanasius the Great
Hell Now – Can Lord Jesus Christ Save from Hades the Hell now?
Yes because the Love of God Operates even now in Hades causing those who believe in Him there to be ‘born again’ too in ‘soul being renewed’ after destruction (Possible context for Matthew 10:28’s destruction of body + soul in Gehenna for Renewal later as St. Athanasius’ definition of being born again in quote below later supports this) as the Gospel is Preached to the Dead even now (according to 1 Peter 4:6) where the impossibilities of ‘none can cross the chasm’ (Luke 16:19 – 31) has changed ever since Lord Jesus Christ Died & Descended to Preach to those spirits in hades-prison who were formerly disobedient (1 Peter 3:18 – 19 as even St. Athanasius’ writes that Christ reveals Himself in Hades too).
Says who?
To quote:
“… §6. The HUMAN RACE then was WASTING, GOD’S IMAGE was being EFFACED, and His WORK RUINED. Either, then, God must forego His spoken word by which man had incurred ruin; or that which had shared in the being of the Word must sink back again into destruction, in which case God’s design would be defeated. What then? was God’s goodness to suffer this? But if so, why had man been made? It could have been weakness, not goodness on God’s part. For this cause, then, death having gained upon men, and corruption abiding upon them, the race of man was perishing; the rational man made in God’s image was disappearing, and the handiwork of God was in process of dissolution. 2. For death, as I said above, gained from that time forth a legal212 hold over us, and it was impossible to evade the law, since it had been laid down by God because213 of the transgression, and the result was in truth at once monstrous and unseemly. 3. For it were monstrous, firstly, that God, having spoken, should prove false—that, when once He had ordained that man, if he transgressed the commandment, should die the death, after the transgression man should not die, but God’s word should be broken. For God would not be true, if, when He had said we should die, man died not. 4. Again, it were unseemly that creatures once made rational, and having partaken of the Word, should go to ruin, and turn again toward non-existence by the way of corruption214. 5. For it were not worthy of God’s goodness that the things He had made should waste away, because of the deceit practised on men by the devil. 6. Especially it was unseemly to the last degree that God’s handicraft among men should be done away, either because of their own carelessness, or because of the deceitfulness of evil spirits. 7. So, as the rational creatures were wasting and such works in course of ruin, what was God in His goodness to do? SUFFER CORRUPTION to PREVAIL AGAINST THEM and DEATH to HOLD THEM FAST? And where were the PROFIT of THEIR having BEEN MADE, to begin with? For better were THEY NOT MADE, than ONCE MADE, LEFT to NEGLECT and RUIN. 8. For neglect reveals weakness, and not goodness on God’s part—if, that is, He allows His own work to be ruined when once He had made it—more so than if He had never made man at all. 9. For if He had not made them, none could impute weakness; but once He had made them, and created them out of nothing, it were most monstrous for the work to be ruined, and that before the eyes of the Maker. 10. It was, then, OUT of the QUESTION to LEAVE MEN to the CURRENT of CORRUPTION; because this would be unseemly, and unworthy of GOD’S GOODNESS… Were men, then, to be called upon to repent? But REPENTANCE CANNOT avert the EXECUTION of a LAW; still LESS can it REMEDY a FALLEN NATURE. We have incurred corruption and need to be restored to the Grace of God’s Image. None could renew but He Who had created. He alone could (1) RECREATE ALL, (2) SUFFER for ALL, (3) REPRESENT ALL to the Father. … 2. So here, once more, what POSSIBLE COURSE was GOD to TAKE? To DEMAND REPENTANCE of MEN for their transgression? For this one might pronounce worthy of God; as 40though, just as from transgression men have become set towards corruption, so from repentance they may once more be set in the way of incorruption. 3. But REPENTANCE WOULD, firstly, FAIL to GUARD the JUST CLAIM216 of GOD. For He would still be none the more true, if men did not remain in the grasp of death; nor, secondly, does repentance call men back from what is their nature—it MERELY STAYS THEM from ACTS of SIN. 4. Now, if there were merely a misdemeanour in question, and not a consequent corruption, repentance were well enough. But if, when transgression had once gained a start, men became involved in that corruption which was their nature, and were deprived of the grace which they had, being in the image of God, what further step was needed? or what was required for such grace and such recall, but the Word of God, which had also at the beginning made everything out of nought? 5. For His it was ONCE MORE both to bring the CORRUPTIBLE to INCORRUPTION, and to MAINTAIN intact the JUST CLAIM217 of the FATHER UPON ALL. For being Word of the Father, and above all, He alone of natural fitness was both able to RECREATE EVERYTHING, and worthy to suffer on BEHALF of ALL and to be AMBASSADOR for ALL with the Father … and immaterial Word of God comes to our realm, howbeit he was not far from us218 before. For NO PART of CREATION is left VOID of HIM: He has FILLED ALL THINGS EVERYWHERE, remaining present with His own Father… His loving-kindness, to the END that, firstly, ALL being held to have died in Him, the LAW INVOLVING the RUIN of MEN might be UNDONE (inasmuch as its power was FULLY SPENT in the Lord’s body, and had NO LONGER holding-ground AGAINST MEN, his peers), and that, secondly, whereas MEN had TURNED toward CORRUPTION, He might TURN THEM again toward INCORRUPTION, and QUICKEN THEM from DEATH by the appropriation222 of His body and by the GRACE of the RESURRECTION, BANISHING DEATH from THEM like STRAW from THE FIRE … For the Word, perceiving that no otherwise could the CORRUPTION of MEN be UNDONE save by DEATH as a NECESSARY CONDITION , … 2. For being over ALL, the Word of God naturally by offering His own temple and corporeal instrument for the LIFE224 of ALL SATISFIED the DEBT by His death. And thus He, the incorruptible Son of God, being conjoined with ALL by a like nature, naturally CLOTHED ALL with INCORRUPTION, by the PROMISE of the RESURRECTION . … henceforth the whole conspiracy of the enemy AGAINST MANKIND is CHECKED, and the CORRUPTION of DEATH which before was PREVAILING AGAINST THEM is DONE AWAY. For the RACE of MEN had GONE to RUIN, had not the Lord and SAVIOUR of ALL, the Son of God, come among us to meet the end of death … much more did God the Word of the all-good Father NOT NEGLECT the RACE of MEN, His work, going to CORRUPTION: but, while He BLOTTED out the DEATH which had ensued by the offering of His own body, He CORRECTED THEIR NEGLECT by His own teaching, RESTORING ALL that was MAN’S by His own power… For since from man it was that death prevailed over men, for this cause conversely, by the Word of God being made man has come about the DESTRUCTION of DEATH and the RESURRECTION of LIFE; as the man which bore Christ230 saith: “For231 since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as IN ADAM ALL DIE, so also IN CHRIST shall ALL be MADE ALIVE :” and so forth. For NO LONGER now do WE DIE as SUBJECT to CONDEMNATION; but as MEN who rise from the dead WE AWAIT the GENERAL RESURRECTION of ALL, “which232 42in its OWN TIMES He shall SHOW,” even God, Who has also wrought it, and bestowed it upon us… 3. So it was open to them, by looking into the height of heaven, and perceiving the 43harmony of creation, to know its Ruler, the Word of the Father, Who, by His own providence over all things makes known the Father to all, and to this END moves ALL THINGS, THAT THROUGH HIM ALL MAY KNOW GOD … 6. God’s goodness then and loving-kindness being so great—men nevertheless, overcome by the pleasures of the moment and by the illusions and deceits sent by demons, did not raise their heads toward the truth, but loaded themselves the more with evils and sins, so as no longer to seem rational, but from their ways to be reckoned void of reason. … So then, men having thus become brutalized, and demoniacal deceit thus clouding every place, and hiding the knowledge of the true God, what was God to do? To keep still silence at so great a thing, and suffer men to be led astray by demons and not to know God? 2. And what was the use of man having been originally made in God’s image? For it had been better for him to have been made simply like a brute animal, than, once made rational, for him to live237 the life of the brutes. 3. Or where was any necessity at all for his receiving the idea of God to begin with? For if he be not fit to receive it even now, it were better it had not been given him at first. 4. Or what profit to God Who has made them, or what glory to Him could it be, if men, made by Him, do not worship Him, but think that others are their makers? For God thus proves to have made these for others instead of for Himself. 5. Once again, a merely human king does not let the lands he has colonized pass to others to serve them, nor go over to other men; but he warns them by letters, and often sends to them by friends, or, if need be, he comes in person, to put them to rebuke in the last resort by his presence, only that they may not serve others and his own work be spent for naught. 6. Shall not God much more spare His own creatures, that they be not led astray from Him and serve things of nought? especially since such going ASTRAY proves the CAUSE of THEIR RUIN and UNDOING, and since it was UNFITTING that THEY should PERISH which had once been PARTAKERS of GOD’S IMAGE. 7. What then was GOD to DO? or what was to be done SAVE the RENEWING of THAT WHICH WAS in God’s image, so that by it MEN might ONCE MORE be able to know Him? But how could this have come to pass save by the presence of the very Image of God, our Lord Jesus Christ? For by men’s means it was impossible, since they are but made after an image; nor by angels either, for not even they are (God’s) images. Whence the Word of God came in His own person, that, as He was the Image of the Father, He might be able to CREATE AFRESH the MAN after the IMAGE. 8. But, again, it could not else have taken place had NOT DEATH and CORRUPTION been DONE AWAY. 9. Whence He took, in natural fitness, a mortal body, that while DEATH might in it be once for all done away, MEN MADE after His Image might ONCE MORE be RENEWED. None other then was sufficient for this need, save the Image of the Father… .2. in the same way also the most holy Son of the Father, being the Image of the Father, came to our region to RENEW MAN once made in His likeness, and find him, as one lost, by the remission of sins; as He says Himself in the Gospels: “I came238 to FIND and to SAVE the LOST.” Whence He said to the Jews also: “Except239 a man be BORN AGAIN,” not meaning, 44as they thought, birth from woman, but speaking of the SOUL BORN and CREATED ANEW in the likeness of God’s image. … 2. For seeing that MEN, having REJECTED the contemplation of God, and with their eyes downward, as though sunk in the deep, were seeking about for God in nature and in the world of sense, FEIGNING GODS for THEMSELVES of MORTAL MEN and DEMONS; to this END the LOVING and GENERAL SAVIOUR of ALL, the Word of God, takes to Himself a body, and as Man walks among men and meets the senses of ALL MEN half-way241, to the END, I say, that they who think that God is corporeal may from what the Lord effects by His body PERCEIVE the TRUTH, and THROUGH HIM RECOGNIZE242 the FATHER… 7. For this cause He was both born and appeared as Man, and died, and rose again, dulling and casting into the shade the works of all former men by His own, that in WHATEVER DIRECTION of the BIAS of MEN might be, from thence He might RECALL THEM, and teach them of His own true Father, as He Himself says: “I came to SAVE and to find that which was LOST244.” … 2. This, too, is what Paul means to point out when he says: “That ye245 being rooted and grounded in love, may be strong to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length, and height and depth, and to know the LOVE of CHRIST which passeth knowledge, that ye may be filled unto all the fulness of God.” 3. For by the WORD REVEALING HIMSELF EVERYWHERE , both above and beneath, and in the depth and in the breadth—above, in the creation; beneath, in becoming man; in the depth, in HADES; and in the breadth, in the world—all things have been filled with the knowledge of God…” – St. Athanasius the Great (c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD),
(Quotes above – Section 6-whole, Points 7.1 – 7.5, Point 8.1, Point 8.4, Point 9.1, Point 9.2, Point 9.4, Point 10.1, Point 10.5, Point 12.3, Point 12.6, Section 13-whole, Point 14.2, Point 15.2, Point 15.7, Points 16.2, 16.3, in Consecutive-Order of Context from the ‘On the Incarnation’ Book)
Source:
Section 6
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.vi.html
Section 7
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.vii.html
Section 8
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.viii.html
Section 9
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.ix.html
Section 10
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.x.html
Section 12
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.xii.html
Section 13
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.xiii.html
Section 14
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.xiv.html
Section 15
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.xvi.html
Section 16
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.xvi.html
Phrases proving this claim: “… The HUMAN RACE then was WASTING, GOD’S IMAGE was being EFFACED, and His WORK RUINED … Again, it were unseemly that creatures once made rational, and having partaken of the Word, should go to ruin, and turn again toward non-existence by the way of corruption214. 5. For it were not worthy of God’s goodness that the things He had made should waste away, because of the deceit practised on men by the devil. 6. Especially it was unseemly to the last degree that God’s handicraft among men should be done away, either because of their own carelessness, or because of the deceitfulness of evil spirits. 7. So, as the rational creatures were wasting and such works in course of ruin, what was God in His goodness to do? SUFFER CORRUPTION to PREVAIL AGAINST THEM and DEATH to HOLD THEM FAST? And where were the PROFIT of THEIR having BEEN MADE, to begin with? For better were THEY NOT MADE, than ONCE MADE, LEFT to NEGLECT and RUIN. 8. For neglect reveals weakness, and not goodness on God’s part—if, that is, He allows His own work to be ruined when once He had made it—more so than if He had never made man at all. 9. For if He had not made them, none could impute weakness; but once He had made them, and created them out of nothing, it were most monstrous for the work to be ruined, and that before the eyes of the Maker. 10. It was, then, OUT of the QUESTION to LEAVE MEN to the CURRENT of CORRUPTION; because this would be unseemly, and unworthy of GOD’S GOODNESS… We have incurred corruption and need to be restored to the Grace of God’s Image. None could renew but He Who had created. He alone could (1) RECREATE ALL, (2) SUFFER for ALL, (3) REPRESENT ALL to the Father… what POSSIBLE COURSE was GOD to TAKE? To DEMAND REPENTANCE of MEN for their transgression? … But REPENTANCE WOULD, firstly, FAIL to GUARD the JUST CLAIM216 of GOD. For He would still be none the more true, if men did not remain in the grasp of death; nor, secondly, does repentance call men back from what is their nature—it MERELY STAYS THEM from ACTS of SIN … For His it was ONCE MORE both to bring the CORRUPTIBLE to INCORRUPTION, and to MAINTAIN intact the JUST CLAIM217 of the FATHER UPON ALL. For being Word of the Father, and above all, He alone of natural fitness was both able to RECREATE EVERYTHING, and worthy to suffer on BEHALF of ALL and to be AMBASSADOR for ALL with the Father … For NO PART of CREATION is left VOID of HIM: He has FILLED ALL THINGS EVERYWHERE, remaining present with His own Father … to the END that, firstly, ALL being held to have died in Him, the LAW INVOLVING the RUIN of MEN might be UNDONE (inasmuch as its power was FULLY SPENT in the Lord’s body, and had NO LONGER holding-ground AGAINST MEN, his peers), and that, secondly, whereas MEN had TURNED toward CORRUPTION, He might TURN THEM again toward INCORRUPTION, and QUICKEN THEM from DEATH by the appropriation222 of His body and by the GRACE of the RESURRECTION, BANISHING DEATH from THEM like STRAW from THE FIRE no otherwise could the CORRUPTION of MEN be UNDONE save by DEATH as a NECESSARY CONDITION , … 2. For being over ALL, the Word of God naturally by offering His own temple and corporeal instrument for the LIFE224 of ALL SATISFIED the DEBT by His death. And thus He, the incorruptible Son of God, being conjoined with ALL by a like nature, naturally CLOTHED ALL with INCORRUPTION, by the PROMISE of the RESURRECTION … henceforth the whole conspiracy of the enemy AGAINST MANKIND is CHECKED, and the CORRUPTION of DEATH which before was PREVAILING AGAINST THEM is DONE AWAY. For the RACE of MEN had GONE to RUIN, had not the Lord and SAVIOUR of ALL, the Son of God, come among us to meet the end of death … all-good Father NOT NEGLECT the RACE of MEN, His work, going to CORRUPTION: but, while He BLOTTED out the DEATH which had ensued by the offering of His own body, He CORRECTED THEIR NEGLECT by His own teaching, RESTORING ALL that was MAN’S by His own power… Word of God being made man has come about the DESTRUCTION of DEATH and the RESURRECTION of LIFE; … For as IN ADAM ALL DIE, so also IN CHRIST shall ALL be MADE ALIVE … For NO LONGER now do WE DIE as SUBJECT to CONDEMNATION; but as MEN who rise from the dead WE AWAIT the GENERAL RESURRECTION of ALL, “which232 42in its OWN TIMES He shall SHOW,” … the Word of the Father, Who, by His own providence over all things makes known the Father to all, and to this END moves ALL THINGS, THAT THROUGH HIM ALL MAY KNOW GOD … especially since such going ASTRAY proves the CAUSE of THEIR RUIN and UNDOING, and since it was UNFITTING that THEY should PERISH which had once been PARTAKERS of GOD’S IMAGE. 7. What then was GOD to DO? or what was to be done SAVE the RENEWING of THAT WHICH WAS in God’s image, so that by it MEN might ONCE MORE be able to know Him? … He might be able to CREATE AFRESH the MAN after the IMAGE. 8. But, again, it could not else have taken place had NOT DEATH and CORRUPTION been DONE AWAY. 9. Whence He took, in natural fitness, a mortal body, that while DEATH might in it be once for all done away, MEN MADE after His Image might ONCE MORE be RENEWED… RENEW MAN … as one lost, by the remission of sins; … He says Himself in the Gospels: “I came238 to FIND and to SAVE the LOST.” Whence He said to the Jews also: “Except239 a man be BORN AGAIN,” not meaning, 44as they thought, birth from woman, but speaking of the SOUL BORN and CREATED ANEW in the likeness of God’s image … For seeing that MEN, having REJECTED the contemplation of God … FEIGNING GODS for THEMSELVES of MORTAL MEN and DEMONS; to this END the LOVING and GENERAL SAVIOUR of ALL … the Word of God, takes to Himself a body, … meets the senses of ALL MEN half-way241, to the END, I say, … perceive the TRUTH, and THROUGH HIM RECOGNIZE242 the FATHER… that in WHATEVER DIRECTION of the BIAS of MEN might be, from thence He might RECALL THEM, … as He Himself says: “I came to SAVE and to find that which was LOST.” … LOVE of CHRIST which passeth knowledge … For by the WORD REVEALING HIMSELF EVERYWHERE … in HADES (Hell)… “- St. Athanasius the Great
Note: The parts I have skipped do not hide any eternal hell quotes but only further details in support of these Gospel Claims as you may please read it for yourself in this well respected eternal hell theologian, Mr. Philip Schaff’s Translation.
Conclusion – First Christianity
Yes, the True Meaning of 1 Peter 3:18 – 19 is this:
“But how? Do not [the Scriptures] show that. the Lord preached the Gospel to those that perished in the flood, or rather had been chained, and to those kept “in ward and guard”? And it has been shown also, in the second book of the Stromata, that the apostles, following the Lord, preached the Gospel to those in Hades. For it was requisite, in my opinion, that as here, so also there, the best of the disciples should be imitators of the Master; so that He should bring to repentance those belonging to the Hebrews, and they the Gentiles; that is, those who had lived in righteousness according to the Law and Philosophy, who had ended life not perfectly, but sinfully. ” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 6, Chapter VI)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
Regarding the True Context and meaning of 1 Peter 4:6, please consider:
Two simple comments:
“it is evident that those, too, who were outside of the Law, having lived rightly, in consequence of the peculiar’ nature of the voice, though they are in HADES and in ward, on hearing the voice of the Lord, whether that of His own person or that acting through His apostles, with all speed turned and believed. For we remember that the Lord is “the power of God,” and power can never be weak. So I think it is demonstrated that the God being good, and the Lord powerful, they save with a righteousness and equality which extend to ALL that TURN to Him, WHETHER HERE or ELSEWHERE. For it is not here alone that the active power of God is beforehand, but it is EVERYWHERE and is ALWAYS at WORK.” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c.150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 6, Chapter VI)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
Phrases: ” though they are in Hades and in ward” —> “all that turn to Him, whether here or elsewhere” —> “on hearing the voice of the Lord, whether that of His own person or that acting through His apostles,” —> “with all speed turned and believed ” —–> and “the active power of God is beforehand, but it is everywhere and is always at work”.
No Time Limit for Salvation from Hades —–>
Focus Phrase from the above: “always at work”
No Physical nor any other limit for Christ Saving from Hades ——> Focus Phrase from the above: “everywhere and is always at work”.
P/S: Which all made alive in Christ in 1 Corinthians 15:22?
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 15:22. NASB)
The “Same All” who die in Adam (Verse in image) which is “All Men eventually” as the ‘Resurrection of Judgment’ (John 5:28 – 29)? toward the Wicked still leads them to a ‘Resurrection of Life after Death is abolished’ which is called the ‘General Salvation of All Men’ as it can be seen in two of St. Athanasius’ quotes below (one quoting the same Verse 1 Corinthians 15:22 along this same Context’), to quote
The General Salvation of All Men referring to the being Sinless Glorious Liberty of the ‘sons of God’ (this part of the Christian Salvation is promised toward All Creation too eventually as Prophesied in Romans 8:19 – 22), is contrasted from the ‘Good Soil believers Salvation of the thirty, sixty & hundred fold’, to quote:
“… The Divine grace variously distributed… Further also, when the word is sown, it does not yield a uniform produce of fruit in this human life, but one various and rich ; for it bringeth forth, some an hundred j^nd some Matt.] 3, 8. sixty, and some thirty 7 , as the Saviour teaches — that Sower of grace, and Bestower of the Spirit … Nor is the grace
confined to the perfect alone; but it is sent down also among those who occupy the middle and the third ranks, so that He might RESCUE ALL MEN GENERALLY to SALVATION…” – St. Athanasius the Great (c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD, Festal Letter 70 – 71)
Source:
“… For since from man it was that death prevailed over men, for this cause conversely, by the Word of God being made man has come about the DESTRUCTION of DEATH and the RESURRECTION of LIFE; as the man which bore Christ230 saith: “For231 since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as IN ADAM ALL DIE, so also IN CHRIST shall ALL be MADE ALIVE :” and so forth. For NO LONGER now do WE DIE as SUBJECT to CONDEMNATION; but as MEN who rise from the dead WE AWAIT the GENERAL RESURRECTION of ALL, “which232 42in its OWN TIMES He shall SHOW,” even God, Who has also wrought it, and bestowed it upon us… ” – St. Athanasius the Great (c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD, Points 10.5 , ‘On the Incarnation’)
Source – Section 10:
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.vii.ii.x.html
The ‘All the People’ Phrase in Verse in Image is not necessarily ‘All Men’ (e.g. in 1 Timothy 4:10, 2:1, 2:4) which proves that the Joy is Greatest to those who believe in faith first regarding Him in full (Luke 2:10, Matthew 5:19).
More Details in Link below of further First Christianity quotes and Edification regarding this Universal Reconciliation by Lord Jesus Christ eventually, All Glory to God in the Highest!
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/amp
Peace to you
Saviour of the World – Context – Just Deeper with First Christianity
Regarding this Infamous Beautiful Verse in image, please consider the following which you may or may not be aware for further edification:
The word translated as “World” is “Kosmos” (Root Word) which includes the Visible & Invisible Realms (so it includes the Spiritual World too, e. g. Colossians 1:16 where His Reconciliation is Done by Him, Colossians 1:20).
Yes, the Gospel (“Good News”) is for “All Creation” in the whole “World” (Mark 16:15) including non-living things because by the Prophetic Declaration of “All Creation, the essence of it for non-living things or life in plants/animals” will be Made New (Revelation 21:5) as this ancient First Christianity Quote below implies too:
“… Then, when all things are made new, he shall truly dwell in the city of God. For it is said, “He that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And the Lord says, Write all this; for these words are faithful and true. And He said to me, They are done.” And this is the truth of the matter. For since there are real men, so must there also be a real establishment (plantationem), that they vanish not away among non-existent things, but progress among those which have an actual existence. For neither is the substance nor the essence of the creation annihilated (for faithful and true is He who has established it), but “the fashion of the world passeth away; ” that is, those things among which transgression has occurred, since man has grown old in them. And therefore this [present] fashion has been formed temporary, God foreknowing all things; as I have pointed out in the preceding book, and have also shown, as far as was possible, the cause of the creation of this world of temporal things…” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Point 2-Chapter XXXV , Point 1-Chapter XXXVI, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
It is Prophesied regarding the Mystery of God being Manifested in the Flesh that it will eventually cause the whole “World” (Kosmos) to believe in Him too (1 Timothy 3:16) but mostly affer seeing Him there (‘not faith type’, John 6:40).
Verse:
“By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 3:16, NASB)
The Shepherd of Hermas Scripture literally records the 40 apostles and teachers descending into the Spirit World (not Christ’s Descent at Calvary) to Preach the Gospel even there proving the Context for “World” (Kosmos) in Mark 16:15 as correct and His Promise for them to be ‘fishers of men’ even there to be so true as well.
“And He [Lord Jesus Christ] said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.” (Mark 16:15, NASB)
iii. Christ doesn’t Judge Anyone for not obeying Him
How is ‘Christ the Light’ in John 12:46 (Verse in image)?
By NOT Judging anyone for not believing or not obeying Him in the whole “World” (Kosmos) again, as the Bible Reveals this Rarely noted Context immediately in the next Verse, to quote:
“If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 12:47, NASB)
So, if we want to shine the True Light of Christ Likewise, we should NOT Judge those who don’t obey His Words too – Can you see it?
So who Judges then? Christ lets us (John 20:23) and the angels in authority (Hebrews 2:2) decide the Judgment which we choose and He Executes the Sentence on our behalf – as those among us & the angels in authority are “the Other” referred to as ” has one who judges him” (in translation below) who is mentioned to “Judge others for not receiving Christ’s Words” as this rarely noticed context is clearly seen in the next immediate Consecutive Verse as follows:
“He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 12:48, NASB)
The Believing after seeing Hope as John 6:40 clearly implies is also mirrored in this Verse in the consecutive Verse (just before the Verse in image) as follows:
“He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 12:45, NASB)
This Means that Christ’s Action to Save the World includes the Context of seeing Him (John 12:45) anywhere in the “World” (Kosmos) hence including the Spirit World too (next Verse, John 12:46). Can you see the Depth implied in Scripture by the Accuracy of the Words used?
Conclusion
Here are those Verses in Consecutive Order and in full for your Delightful Meditation on His Most Beautiful Word too:
“45“He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me. 46“I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. 47“If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48“He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 12:45 – 48, NASB)
The phrase “the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day” reveals which Resurrection of Life or Judgment one will Participate in on the hours on the Last Day (John 5:28 – 29).
Is such a Universal Salvation after the Aeonian Judgment Sentences Context Correct?
Yes, please allow me to quote St. Athanasius the Great (the father of Orthodoxy) for some further interesting insights as follows, to quote:
The All in ‘His Ransom for All’ in its own Divine-Kairois Times in 1 Timothy 2:6 or His Drawing of All in John 12:32 is ‘All Creation’, to quote:
“Tom. ad Ant 7, in Himself Christ has liberated humanity from sin completely and entirely, bringing it to life from the state of death in which it was lying, and into the kingdom of the heavens. (Not only are all people raised in the resurrection, but they shall enter the kingdom of God.)
Ep ad Afr 7, not only all humanity but the rebel angels need the grace of the Logos to be saved.”
Source:
https://forum.evangelicaluniversalist.com/t/athanasius-contra-ect-anni/5694
“In the finale to De Incarn, Athanasius acknowledges (as did Origen) that those who do good will have the Kingdom of the Heavens at the second manifestation of Christ, while those who do evil will have the outer darkness and the eonian fire; but He comes in glory to bestow upon all of us the fruit of His cross, resurrection and incorruptibility, which is part of His judgment of all people according to the good or evil deeds they performed while in the body.”
Source:
https://forum.evangelicaluniversalist.com/t/athanasius-contra-ect-anni/5694
Aeonian Judgment is not forever but to the particular age-during time only as Christ said all sins will be forgiven by the next age except the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which lasts two full ages (or current & next aeon exactly, Matthew 12:31 – 32), to quote from St. Athanasius the Great again:
“Migne’s Patrologia Graeca 27.64.3, (but not in the Epistle for expositing the Psalms, source reported by Ramelli not identified by me yet) Jesus’ words “go away from Me into the aonian fire” are a threat that is good to take into consideration, for those who will hear these words addressed to themselves will fall down, and rightly so, given that they have not adhered steadfastly to Christ, Who is the solid basis of believers.” Ath goes on to say that during the reign of Christ, the unjust which are called “nations” shall be cast into “the fire the eonian”, because they do not live according to the law, but savagely, like pagans and barbarians. Of these people Scripture requires the exclusion, saying “Go ruin”, and addressing them with “a dreadful threat”. Ath goes on immediately to say that the aim of the threat is correction, conversion, and life, “that these may revive, and those may correct themselves.”
Source:
https://forum.evangelicaluniversalist.com/t/athanasius-contra-ect-anni/5694
To quote St. Athanasius’ quote Teaching this:
Salvation for All Men some only after the Fire kindled (Luke 12:46 – 49 referring to Gehenna or Lake of Fire till the Last Penny, Luke 12:57 – 59) as St. Athanasius quotes likewise His Purification of Fire toward ALL MEN (believers in this life while the rest purified via that Fire as Athanasius quotes Luke 12:49 linking this Context) below:
“Jobni,9. as in darkness, not having that LIGHT which lighteth EVERY MAN that cometh into the WORLD. Now a fire such as this laid hold of Jeremiah the prophet, when the word was in Jer. 20,9. him as a fire, and he said, * I pass away from every place, and am not able to endure it. And our Lord Jesus Christ, in that He was good and man-loving, came that He might Luke 12, cast this upon earth, and said, And what? would that it were already kindled 1 ! For He desired, as He testified in Ezek. 18, Ezekiel, the repentance of a man rather than his death ; so that EVIL should be CONSUMED in ALL MEN, to the END that the SOUL, being PURIFIED, might be able to bring forth fruit ;” – St. Athanasius the Great (c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD, Festal Letter 25)
Source:
The General Salvation of All Men referring to the being Sinless Glorious Liberty of the ‘sons of God’ (this part of the Christian Salvation is promised toward All Creation too eventually as Prophesied in Romans 8:19 – 22), is contrasted from the ‘Good Soil believers Salvation of the thirty, sixty & hundred fold’, to quote:
“… The Divine grace variously distributed… Further also, when the word is sown, it does not yield a uniform produce of fruit in this human life, but one various and rich ; for it bringeth forth, some an hundred j^nd some Matt.] 3, 8. sixty, and some thirty 7 , as the Saviour teaches — that Sower of grace, and Bestower of the Spirit … Nor is the grace
confined to the perfect alone; but it is sent down also among those who occupy the middle and the third ranks, so that He might RESCUE ALL MEN GENERALLY to SALVATION…” – St. Athanasius the Great (c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD, Festal Letter 70 – 71)
Source:
Comment: In the last quote above, St. Athanasius is revealing that the Grace of God Works in different Ways beginning with the Perfect (Hundredfold Seed) to the Second Rank (Sixty Fold Seed) to the Third Rank (Thirty Fold Seed) and lastly toward a ‘General Salvation which Rescues ALL MEN to be sinless again (implied)’. Right?
His Ransom for “All” (1 Timothy 2:6 Context)
Isn’t that Blashphemy?
To quote (Please note that the quote below from “On the Incarnation” Book by St. Athanasius the Great which practically earned him the title the father of Orthodoxy for chiefly defending Trinity on these Grounds or Reasons):
“God because 1 of the transgression, and the result was in
truth at once monstrous and unseemly. . 5. For it were
monstrous, firstly, that God, having spoken, should prove
false that, when once he had ordained that man, if he
transgressed the commandment, should die the death,
after the transgression man should not die, but God s
word should be broken. For God would not be true, it ,
when he had said we should die, man died not. 4. Again,
it were unseemly, that creatures once made rational, and
having partaken of the Word, should go to ruin, and
turn .again toward non-existence by the way of corruption.”
;”>. For it were not worthy of God s goodness that the
things lie had made should waste away, because of the
deceit practised on men by the devil. (I. Especially it
was unseemly to the last degree that God s handicraft
among men should be done away, either because of their
own carelessness, or because of the deceitfulness of evil
spirits. 7. So, a.s the rational creatures were wasting
and such works in course of ruin, what was God in his
goodness to do? Suffer corruption to prevail against
them and death to hold them fast ? And where were the
profit of their having been made, to begin with? For
letter were they not made, than, once made, left to neglect
and ruin. *. For neglect reveals weakness, and not
goodness on God s part if, that is, he allows his own
work to be ruined when once he has made it more so
than if he had never made man at all; 1 !>. For if He
had not made them, none could impute weakness; but
once he had made them, and created them out of nothing,
it were most monstrous for the work to be ruined, and that before the eyes of the Maker. 10. It was, then, out of the question to leave men to the current of corruption ; because this would be unseemly, and unworthy of Clod s goodness. On the other hand there was the consistency of God s nature not to be sacrificed for our profit. Were men then to be
called upon to repent? But repentance cannot avert the execution of a law ; still less can it remedy a fallen nature. We have incurred corruption and need to be restored to the
(Grace of God s image. None could renew but he who had created. He alone could (1) recreate all, (2) suffer for all, (3) represent all to the Father. ” – St. Athanasius the Great Father of Orthodoxy (De Incarn 6.4-10, c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD)
Source:
https://archive.org/stream/stathanasiusonth00athauoft/stathanasiusonth00athauoft_djvu.txt
P/S: Here’s a little Regarding St. Athanasius’ Christian life
To quote:
“He [St. Athanasius] was brought up, from the first, in religious habits and practices, after a brief study of literature and philosophy, so that he might not be utterly unskilled in such subjects, or ignorant of matters which he had determined to despise. For his generous and eager soul could not brook being occupied in vanities, like unskilled athletes, who beat the air instead of their antagonists and lose the prize. From meditating on every book of the Old and New Testament, with a depth such as none else has applied even to one of them, he grew rich in contemplation, rich in splendor of life.” – St.Gregory of Nazianzus (Doctor of the Church)
or
“St. Gregory of Nazianzus (330–390, also a Doctor of the
Church), said: “When I praise Athanasius, virtue itself is
my theme: for I name every virtue as often as I mention
him who was possessed of all virtues. He was the true
pillar of the Church. His life and conduct were the rule of
bishops, and his doctrine the rule of the orthodox faith.” [in ] Clifford, Cornelius, Catholic Encyclopedia 1930, Volume
2, Pgs: 35–40 “Athanasius”]
Source:
https://www.gracenotes.info/documents/topics_doc/athanasius.pdf
and
“Let one praise him in his fastings and prayers . . . , another his unweariedness and zeal for vigils and psalmody, another his patronage of the needy, another his dauntlessness towards the powerful, or his condescension to the lowly. . . . [He was to] the unfortunate their consolation, the hoary-headed their staff, youths their instructor, the poor their resource, the wealthy their steward. Even the widows will . . . praise their protector, even the orphans their father, even the poor their benefactor, strangers their entertainer, brethren the man of brotherly love, the sick their physician.” St.Gregory of Nazianzus regarding St. Athanasius the Great (Doctor of the Church)
Source:
https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/contending-for-our-all
Peace to you
Christ Centered Universalism in St. Athanasius the Great Father of Orthodoxy
To quote (here’s what they rarely tell you about what he believed and wrote):
WAS ATHANASIUS A UNIVERSALIST?
When it comes to patristic universalists, everyone points to Origen and Gregory of Nyssa, and some folk point to various precursors and followers of Origen, but not many people seek to enlist St. Athanasius (d. 373). However, in her recent 900-page volume on apokatastasis, Ilaria Ramelli makes a pretty strong case that Athanasius was indeed a universalist.
She notes that he was a supporter and defender both of Origen and of certain of Origen’s followers, including Palladius, Theognostus, and St. Anthony. She further demonstrates that Athanasius absorbed a range of theological and exegetical insights from Origen.
Consequently, one should perhaps not be surprised if it turned out that Origen’s universalism was also taken on board by the great Anti-Arian saint. And so it appears. Ramelli surveys a range of texts in which Athanasius sees:
Christ’s incarnation as having a salvific effect on all humanity
Christ death for all as resulting in the salvation of all
That what God has called into existence should not perish (on the grounds that then God’s work for it would be in vain)
For instance, [all refs in the book]
Flesh was taken up by the Logos to liberate all humans and resurrect all of them from the dead and ransom all of them from sin.
The Logos became a human being for the sake of our salvation . . . in order to set free all beings in himself, to lead the cosmos to the Father and to pacify all beings in himself, in heaven and on earth.
. . . in himself he has liberated humanity from sin, completely and entirely, and has vivified it from the state of death . . .
he delivered his own body to death on behalf of all . . . in order bring again to incorruptibility the human beings now doomed to corruption
That corruption may disappear from all forever, thanks to the resurrection. . . . He has paid for all, in death, all that was owed. . . . He set right their neglectfulness, having rectified all human things by means of his power.
Creatures, which are his work, should not be reduced to nothing by the deception of the devil.
[Christ], who through his own power has restored the whole human nature.
He handed his own body to death for the sake of all . . . in order to drive back to incorruptibility . . . human beings.
[Christ] has redeemed from death and liberated from hell all humanity.
He died for all . . . to abolish death with his blood . . . he has gained the whole humanity.
the totality of the people has entered, so that every human be saved.
He offered the sacrifice for all.
Our Saviour’s death has liberated the world. By his wounds all of us have been healed.
[In the cross there is] salvation of all humans in all places
I am most certainly not an Athanasius scholar, but it certainly looks universalist! And given his Origenist sympathies, we’d need some good reasons to think it was not.
Now Athanasius did speak of the eschatological punishment of aionial fire. Presumably this is why people assume that he could not have been a universalist. However, Ramelli argues that Athanasius’ use of this concept follows that of Origen. In other words, she argues that he makes a clear distinction between aidios (eternal) and aionios (age-long, or belonging to an age). Thus, future punishment is never spoken of as aidios (eternal), but only ever as aionios (belonging to the age to come).
She further shows that—like Clement, Origen, and others—Athanasius had a notion of corrective punishment in the age to come. After citing the threat of eternal fire he reveals that its aim is “that these may revive, and those may correct themselves.” Those who have been cursed by the Lord can have his mercy and will be inserted anew once they have abandoned their incredulity.
If Athanasius was indeed a universalist, this is not insignificant. It is easy in some quarters to dismiss Origen (often on the basis of misunderstanding him), but one cannot so easily dismiss Athanasius, the great defender of Nicene orthodoxy and the arch-opponent of Arius. If Ramelli is right, then universalism was not as marginal and fringe as it is sometimes claimed.
Source:
http://theologicalscribbles.blogspot.com/2014/11/was-athanasius-universalist.html?m=1
Conclusion – Who was he?
To quote briefly:
“Athanasius of Alexandria (/ˌæθəˈneɪʃəs/; Greek: Ἀθανάσιος Ἀλεξανδρείας, Athanásios Alexandrías; Coptic: ⲡⲓⲁⲅⲓⲟⲥ ⲁⲑⲁⲛⲁⲥⲓⲟⲩ ⲡⲓⲁⲡⲟⲥⲧⲟⲗⲓⲕⲟⲥ or Ⲡⲁⲡⲁ ⲁⲑⲁⲛⲁⲥⲓⲟⲩ ⲁ̅;[3] c. 296–298 – 2 May 373), also called Athanasius the Great, Athanasius the Confessor or, primarily in the Coptic Orthodox Church, Athanasius the Apostolic, was the 20th bishop of Alexandria (as Athanasius I). His intermittent episcopacy spanned 45 years (c. 8 June 328 – 2 May 373), of which over 17 encompassed five exiles, when he was replaced on the order of four different Roman emperors. Athanasius was a Christian theologian, a Church Father, the chief defender of Trinitarianism against Arianism, and a noted Egyptian leader of the fourth century.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasius_of_Alexandria
He was known as the “Black Dwarf” (he was a darker skinned Egyptian), to quote an example biography:
While in the council of Nicae, as a secretary to the bishop Alexander of Alexandria, he suggested the word “Homoousios” to express how the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, are equal, eternal, and uncreated. He was nicknamed the “Black Dwarf.” He was the leading theologian arguing for this position (class note [2017] given by Dr. John Carson on church history in second year, second semester).
Athanasius, only a deacon, when he participated in the Nicene Council, which clarified the doctrine of the unity of the Father, the deity of the Son and his eternal existence.
Concerning the nature of Christ, he held the view that Christ was coequal, coeternal, and consubstantial with the Father. This view was the cause of his exile. He made a Christology defense that will never be like any other.
He served as the Bishop (archbishop) of Alexandria for forty-five year succeeding Alexander of Alexandria. He spent seventeen years of his Episcopate in exile.
Along with the Bishop of Alexandria and his mentor Alexander, he opposed Arianism at the Nicene Council.
He suffered persecution and was forced to go into exile five times, but later came back to Alexandria where he died peacefully.
Source:
P/S: Catholic?
For protestants, please don’t let the word “Catholic” scare you because it simply means “Universal”, hence the early leaders of the church used the term “Catholic Church” to mean the “Universal Church”.
Also, he didn’t pray to Mary like some Roman theologians. That’s a different post and I want to focus on this Great Truth of Christ Centered Universalism only here. If anyone says otherwise, ask for the exact source of his own writings/book and read it for yourself to realize who is speaking truth vs who is misinterpreting him. Let’s be like the Bereans, dear Christians.
Peace to you
Rescue for the dead: Jeffrey a Trumbower’s Book
Via Mr. Gilbert C: I have been asked to document Trumbower’s evidence from the early church for praying for the dead, especially the salvation of non-Christians:
And I made a congregation of the living among his dead; and I spoke with them by living lips: in order that my word may not fail. And those who have died ran toward me: and they cried out and said, son of God, have pity on us. And deal with us according to your kindness, and bring us out from the chaos of darkness. And open for us a door by which we may go forth to you, but we perceive that our death does not approach you. May we also be saved with you, because you are our savior. Then I heard their voice, and placed their faith in my heart. And I placed my name upon their head, because they are free and they are mine. Hallelujah.
Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory of Nazianzus and Cyril of Alexandria all speak of what the Eastern Orthodox call the harrowing of Hell and and ancient EO liturgy that says Christ emptied Hell.
Other sources, Understand prayer for the dead by James Gould and Ilaria Ramelli, Christian Doctrine of Apokatstasis, pp.67-87 – Apocalypse of Peter, the Apocalypse of Elijah, Epistula Apostolorum, Sibylline Oracles, Apocalypse of Paul which all have citations for praying for the salvation of unbaptized non-Christians.
Conclusion
The Shepherd of Hermas Quote in image also Parabolically describe this Context as follows (Please consider it as a brief Question-Reply format below):
Question
Am I understanding this correctly, that some won’t be saved? “They received the faith in hypocrisy, and no wickedness was absent from them. Therefore they have not salvation,”
Reply
Please notice the following carefully:
Context = Definition of Saved
Saved = Part of the Tower of Repentance = Being His Church /Bride
Not Saved = not His Church = have not Salvation (referring to the First Resurrection Revelation 20:4 – 6)
These same rejected unsaved stones are said to be saved in another place more humble eventually, to quote:
“7[15]:4 So she finished the explanation of the tower.
7[15]:5 Still importunate, I asked her further, whether for all these stones that were rejected and would not fit into the building of the tower that was repentance, and they had a place in this tower. “They can repent,” she said, “but they cannot be fitted into this tower.”
Source for Translation in Image:
https://carm.org/shepherd-of-hermas
The Judgment Sentences of these Rejected believers turned wicked (‘stones’) is the same as the ‘unbelievers’ too according to Luke 12:46 which is only till the ‘last cent’ (not forever but ‘aeonian’, Luke 12:59 – in Context of Consecutive Verses – Can you see it?) and so if they can repent after their afterlife Judgments, so can the unbelievers too right?
This is clearly demonstrated not just for the Final Gehenna or Lake of Fire Judgment (in Verses above, Luke 12:46 to Luke 12:49-referring to the Lake of Fire. to Luke 12:59) but also in Hades now as the ancient Christian Writings (Quotes – paraphrased above) proves agreeing to 1 Peter 4:6’s Gospel being Preached to the Dead as empirically proven by the reliable modern Christian Witness Sadhu Sundar Singh as quoted in previous posts clearly regarding afterlife Salvation by Christ as onGoing as He Wills.
The Gospel will be Preached into the Whole Inhabited Earth (oikoumenē, Matthew 24:14) and in like manner including the Spiritual World as well to the Dead (1 Peter 4:6) as the Shepherd of Hermas clearly Testify the apostles of the Lamb doing so there as well via the angels as well to ‘all nations’ (Revelation 14:6) as part of the Gospel being Preached to the Whole World eventually (‘Kosmos’, Mark 16:15) where He Will be Believed on by the Whole World eventually (as Prophesied in 1 Timothy 3:16) where some only after seeing Him (John 6:40) thereby ‘not in faith before seeing’ (Hebrews 11:1) missing out on being His Bride/Church (Revelation 20:4 -6) becoming the ‘sons of God’ (Romans 8:19) which is the Greatest of All Creation sharing His Divinity eventually (1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18, James 1:18, 1 John 3:2).
Believing after Seeing in the Afterlife Proof in First Christianity
To quote:
Christ “shouted with authority to the suffering souls, according to the words of the new covenant,” said Cyril, “so that he might save all those who would believe in him” (ACS 11.107).
Melito of Sardis, writing in the late second century, presented this as a bold proclamation as well:
“It is I,” says Christ,
“I am He who destroys death,
and triumphs over the enemy,
and crushes Hades,
and binds the strong man,
and bears humanity off to the heavenly heights.”
(On Pascha 102)
Also,
Said Cyril of Alexandria, “When the gatekeepers of hell saw Him [Lord Jesus Christ], they fled; the bronze gates were broken open, and the iron chains were undone” (Ancient Commentary on Scripture 11.107).
And,
Some translations render that word “preached,” but the idea is one of announcement, a declaration of victory, which is exactly how fourth-century theologian and hymnographer Ephraim the Syrian saw it:
[T]he voice of our Lord sounded into Hell, and He cried aloud and burst the graves one by one. Tremblings took hold on Death; Hell that never of old had been lighted up, into it there flashed splendors, from the Watchers [angels] who entered in and brought out the dead to meet Him, who was dead and gives life to all. (Nisibene Hymns 36.11)
Not only was Satan defeated, but so was death itself. In Nisibene Hymns, Ephraim personified death and put these words on his lips:
My throne was set for me in Sheol: and one arose that was dead, and hurled me from it. . . . In a man that was slain lo! there has entered into Sheol He that takes her captive. I used to take all men captive: the Son of Captivity Whom I took captive has taken me captive. He Whom I took captive has led her away and is gone to Paradise. (38.1)
As King David Prophetically says regarding this event by imitating the damned in the current Hell (Prison, Hades, 1 Peter 3:18 – 19 or 1 Peter 4:5 – 6):
While some contemporary theology has no room or understanding of this doctrine, Christians are invited to see it as a vision of the conquering Savior, whose triumph is so complete, so thorough, so exhaustive that he descends to hell and empties it of every soul who responds to his call.
Because of harrowing of hell, we can join King David and sing, “Bring my soul out of prison, that I may praise your name” (Ps 142.7, 141.8 LXX).
Source:
www.patheos.com/blogs/joeljmiller/2013/03/the-victory-of-christ-and-the-harrowing-of-hell/amp/
Peace to you
Many or Few Mystery?
(i) Few only get Saved in this life and become part of the Highest First Resurrection (Matthew 7:14, Revelation 20:4 – 6)
(ii) Many will be Purged in afterlife Judgment of Fire before being Saved even now into their appropriate afterlife abode (1 Peter 4:6) with only the most Wicked to be cast into the Lake of Fire (Daniel 12:10, Matthew 8:11)
Explanation:
“… The Gospel is Preached to the dead… ” (1 Peter 4:6)
They may endure some afterlife Judgment but may be Saved thereafter upon repentance there to their appropriate abode. Only the very wicked usually still remain in darkness till the Judgment of that Great Day.
Here’s an example spiritual vision in that direction by Sadhu Sundar Singh, a famous Christian Universalist, to quote:
“DEATH OF A PHILOSOPHER
The soul of a German philosopher entered into the world of spirits and saw from afar the incomparable glory of the spiritual world, and the boundless happiness of its people. He was delighted with what he saw, but his stubborn intellectualism stood in the way of his entering into it, and enjoying its happiness. Instead of admitting that it was real, he argued thus with himself, “There is no doubt at all that I see all this, but what proof is there that it has objective existence, and is not some illusion conjured up by my mind? From end to end of all this scene I will apply the tests of logic, philosophy and science, and then only will I be convinced that it has a reality of its own, and is no illusion.” … . I asked one of the angels what the end of this man would be, and he replied “If this man’s life had been altogether bad, then he would at once have joined the spirits of darkness, but he is not without a moral sense, so for a very long time he will wander blindly round in the dim light of the lower parts of the intermediate state, and keep on bumping his philosophical head, until tired of his foolishness, he repents. Then he will be ready to receive the necessary instruction from the angels appointed for that purpose, and, when instructed, will he be fit to enter into the fuller light of God in the higher sphere.”
Or even a sincerely wrong non-Christian Idolater may have a chance if he doesn’t hold too strongly to his false beliefs, to quote:
“THE MANIFESTATION OF CHRIST
I saw in a vision the spirit of an idolater on reaching the world of spirits begin at once to search for his god. Then the saints said to him, “There is no god here save the One True God, and Christ, who is His manifestation.” At this, the man was a good deal astonished, but being a sincere seeker after truth, he frankly admitted that he had been in error. He eagerly sought to know the correct view of truth, and asked if he might see the Christ. Shortly after this Christ manifested Himself in a dim light to him, and to others who had newly arrived in the world of spirits, because at this stage they could not have endured a full exhibition of His glory, for His glory is so surpassing that even the angels look on Him with difficulty, and cover their faces with their wings (Isaiah 6:9). When He does reveal Himself to any one He takes into account the particular stage of progress to which that soul has attained, so He appears dimly, or in the fuller light of His glory, that the sight of Him may be endured. So, when these spirits saw Christ in this dim but attractive light, they were filled with a joy and peace, which is beyond our power to describe. Bathed in the rays of His life-giving light, and with the waves of His love, which constantly flow out from Him, flowing over them, all their error was washed away. Then with all their hearts, they acknowledged Him as the Truth, and found healing, and, bowing in lowly adoration before Him, thanked and praised Him. And the saints, who had been appointed for their instruction; also rejoiced over them.”
Source:
https://reluctant-messenger.com/sadhu-sundar-singh.htm
The Wicked soul part, to quote:
“A WICKED MAN PERMITTED TO ENTER HEAVEN
Once in my presence a man of evil life entered at death into the world of spirits. When the angel and saints wished to help him he at once began to curse and revile them, and say, “God is altogether unjust. He has prepared heaven for such flattering slaves as you are, and casts the rest of mankind into hell. Yet you call Him Love!” The angels replied, “God certainly is Love. He created men that they might live forever in happy fellowship with Him, but men, by their own obstinacy, and by abuse of their free will have turned their faces away from Him, and have made hell for themselves. God neither casts any one into hell, nor will He ever do so, but man himself, by being entangled in sin, creates hell for himself. God never created any hell.”
Just then, the exceedingly sweet voice of one of the high angels was heard from above saying, “God gives permission that this man may be brought into heaven.” Eagerly the man stepped forward accompanied by two angels, but when they reached the door of heaven, and saw the holy and light-enveloped place and the glorious and blessed inhabitants that dwell there, he began to feel uneasy. The angels said to him, “See how beautiful a world is this! Go a little farther, and look at the dear Lord sitting on His throne.” From the door he looked, and then as the light of the Sun of Righteousness revealed to him the impurity of his sin-defiled life, he started back in an agony of self-loathing, and fled, with such precipitancy, that he did not even stop in the intermediate state of the world of spirits, but like a stone he passed through it, and cast himself headlong into the bottomless pit.
Then the sweet and ravishing voice of the Lord was heard saying, “Look, My dear children, none is forbidden to come here, and no one forbade this man, nor has any one asked him to leave. It was his own impure life that forced him to flee from this holy place, for, ‘Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God’ (John 3:3).”
Source:
https://reluctant-messenger.com/sadhu-sundar-singh.htm
Afterlife Judgment is to the “Ages/Aeons” or “forever”?
Will the Wicked be in Hell forever* or to the “ages” (Aeons)?
To quote:
“THE SOUL OF A ROBBER
A robber died and entered the world of spirits… On this one of the angels said, “If spirits of this kind were not kept down in the darkness or the bottomless pit, then they would cause immense harm wherever they might go. This man’s conscience is so dead, that even after he has reached the world of spirits, he fails to recognize that, by murdering and robbing in the world, he has wasted his own spiritual discernment and life. He killed and destroyed others, but in reality, he has destroyed himself. God alone knows if this man, and those who are like him, will remain in torment for ages or forever.” … A kind of lightless fire burns forever and torments these souls, but neither are they altogether consumed, nor does the fire die out. A spirit who was watching what had just happened said, “Who knows but that in the end this may not be a cleansing flame?” …”
Source:
https://reluctant-messenger.com/sadhu-sundar-singh.htm
Conclusion
“5who will give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6For to this end the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but they might live in the spirit according to God.” – apostle Peter (1 Peter 4:5 – 6, Berean Literal Bible)
Context as it is Written: The “Dead” in Verse 6 above is the ‘same dead’ referred to in Verse 5 above. Can you see it?
To quote:
“Once I said, So many people will be lost because they have not heard of Christ. They said, { The contrary will be the case ; very few will be lost. There is a kind of heavenly joke, no, joke is not a good word for it. Very few will be lost but many will be saved. It is so, but don t tell/ they said, as it were, in jest, because it
will make men careless, and we want them to enjoy the First Heaven that is the Heaven on earth as well. “If there were no hope for all the non- Christians in the world and all the Christians who die in sin, God would stop creating men. We must do our part here on
earth to save sinners, but if they refuse we need not be without hope for them.” – Sadhu Sundar Singh
The Sadhu s ” universalism ” recalls the famous
“Shewing” to Mother Juliana of Norwich, “All manner of things shall be well,” and her comments thereon except that her respect for the authority of the Church precludes her making any suggestion how this may be
possible. 1 The Sadhu faithfully obeys the injunction, Don t tell.
In his popular teachings, as we shall see
in the next chapter, he stresses the need of repentance, and the certainty of immediate judgment in the next life, but he never speaks of his hope of ultimate salvation even for the unrepentant.
Source:
https://archive.org/stream/themessageofsadh00streuoft/themessageofsadh00streuoft_djvu.txt
“and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world [Kosmos].” – apostle John (1 John 2:2, NASB)
“Ver. 2. “And not only for our sins,”–that is for those of the faithful,–is the Lord the propitiator, does he say, “but also for the whole world.” (1 John 2:2) He, indeed, saves all; but some [He saves], converting them by punishments; others, however, who follow voluntarily [He saves] with dignity of honour; so “that every knee should bow to Him, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth;” that is, angels, men, and souls that before His advent have departed from this temporal life..” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-fragments.html
Peace to you
Comment Via Mr. Gilbert C.
To quote:
It is interesting to me that many Evangelicals interpret 1 Peter 3:18-22 as not referring to a second chance after death. The whole conversation is in the context of salvation. But however people want to interpret chapter three, chapter four is even more interesting to me. I Peter 4:6 says,
“For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God” (NASB translation).
Several translations (NIV, NET, NLT as examples) add or insert the word “now” before the word dead which changes the meaning of the text. Now it means Christ preached to these people while they were alive but who are now dead. But that is not what the text actually says.
What is even more interesting is the whole history of early Christianity that understood these verses as people would accept Jesus even in the after-life. The early writing of the Shepherd of Hermas, the Acts of Paul and Thelca, Perpetua’s prayer for Dinocrates (Perpetua has historically been celebrated by all Christians as one of the first women martyrs), The Gsopel of Nicodemus, Gregory’s prayers for Trajen, and several major Christian interpreters from Origen to Gregory of Nyssa.
If someone wants to do some more study on this issue, there are several books on this topic but one of the best I have read so far is:
Jeffrey Trumbower, “Rescue for the Dead: The Posthumous Salvation of Non-Christians in Early Christianity” (Oxford Univ. Press, 2001).
Julian of Norwich – Christ’s Word Promised her Universalism
To quote:
“There is a deed the which the blisseful trinite shalle do in the last day,” the anchoress prophesies (LT 32). What this deed will be and when it will occur is unknown to all creatures. It is, as we say, a mystery. All we need to know is this:
This is the gret deed ordained of oure lorde God fro without beginning, tresured and hid in his blessed brest, only knowen to himselfe, by which deed he shalle make all thing wele. For right as the blessed trinite made alle thing of nought, right so the sam blessed trinite shale make wele alle that is not welle. (LT 32)
This is the great deed ordained by our Lord God from without beginning, treasured and hidden in his blessed breast, known only to himself, through which deed he will make all things well. For just as the blessed Trinity created all things from nothing, just so will the same blessed Trinity make everything well which is not well.
Julian does not know how to rationally harmonize her shewings with the teaching of the Church on hell: “And stonding alle this, methought it was unpossible that alle maner of thing shuld be wele, as oure lorde shewde in this time” (LT 32). In response Christ reiterates his promise: “That that is unpossible to the is not unpossible to me. I shalle save my worde in alle thing, and I shalle make althing wele.” Watson and Jenkins interpret Christ’s words as promising “the reconciliation of orthodox teaching on damnation with God’s message of love to Julian” (p. 224). Still we wonder. How well is well? How well will well be? Turner construes the pledge as eschatological manifestation of the behoveliness of perdition. Just as we will be given to see the befittingness of evil within the economy of salvation, so we will come to understand the inconceivable befittingness of everlasting damnation and loss (pp. 106-109). The conflict between magisterial teaching on hell and the revelation to Julian of God’s infinite love is therefore only apparent.
Source:
afkimel.wordpress.com/2017/11/27/all-shall-be-well-but-how-well-is-well/amp/
Conclusion
An Answer to Julian of Norwich’s Dilemma is the Reconciliation from the Lake of Fire Mystery (Verse in image) as it was taught in First Christianity Prophecies such as the Christian-Jewish Sibyline Oracles, Apocalypse of Elijah and Apocalypse of Peter as discussed in earlier posts which may be found in link below for further edification:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/
Peace to you
Saints – Shining the Great Light of Christ – Why does the Lives of Saints Matter much to me?
The lives of saints often show this. They follow God closest and have no monetary prosperity but they still Love God so much. Example: Early Saints in First Christianity such as St. Clement of Alexandria or St. Anthony the Great or even the non-canonized but the undeniable selfless life of Origen of Alexandria who is certainly a saint in my judgment.
Example: Origen wouldn’t even own two cloaks by choice to fulfill the Perfection Commands of Christ though he could have lived luxuriously (being one of the few early Church leaders who even taught Mathematics at Alexandria, yes that great ancient learning city of Alexandria) and died a martyr for the wounds suffered through Torture for Christ for years in his sixties whilst believing that even his enemies will one day be Saved into the appropriate regions of His Great Kingdom post-afterlife Judgments instead of hoping eternal hell on them. Now, that’s a legendary faith in Christ.
‘so was his life so was his doctrine, so was his doctrine so was his life’ – Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea (father of Church History) regarding Origen
Quote Source: Philip Schaff’s Book on Church History (rephrased here – no online free source as it must be bought)).
Example of a description regarding how Origen of Alexandria died martyed for Christ whilst believing in the salvation of all eventually including his enemies, to quote:
“… In 250 persecutions of the Church broke out under the Roman Emperor Decius, and this time Origen did not escape. He was imprisoned, tortured, and bound hand and foot to the block for days without yielding. Although eventually released, these tortures seem to have weakened him enough for him to succumb to death in about 254. …”
Source:
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Origen
Comparison: Please remember that the eternal Hell marytrs you quote ‘are dying to avoid eternal hell as one of the reasons’ and ‘many among them hope to see their torturers being burnt forever in hell’. Ain’t Origen of Alexandria exhibiting the True Christ-likeness where Christ’s Last Prayer is for All His Enemies to be Forgiven too, Verse:
“Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.” …” (Luke 23:34, NKJV)
The Verses below also strike in Context:
“For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 16:25, NKJV)
Indeed, what if only Martyrs such as the apostles or Origen or the first martyr Stephen who truly believe in their enemies being forgiven are considered to have “Agape (Love)” where the rest fall short greatly as per the Verse below:
“… though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 13:3, NKJV)
Yes, the “Agape” (Love) apostle Paul refers to above does NOT keep “any record of wrongs” according to some ancient manuscript variants (used as the Primary, in translations such as the NIV or NASB), to quote:
“… , it (Agape, Love) keeps no record of wrongs.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 13:5, NIV)
In other words dying for Christ to save one’s own soul from avoiding hell or living for Christ to get blessings type intentions (contradicts the intention of losing one’s life as per Matthew 16:25) and believing that your enemies go to an eternal hell whilst you’re martyed or you stood for Christ assuming that contradicts 1 Corinthians 13:3 which intention of Agape is Defined as inclusive of “keeping no record of wrongs” (as per 1 Corinthians 13:5), right?
I’m not saying that those who believe in an eternal Hell do not have love at all but those who believe in Salvation beyond hell whilst dying a maryr such as Origen or living out an almost perfect missionary life such as Sadhu Sundar Singh certainly have more Agape (Love of God).
Such ones are following Lord Jesus Christ where for All Personal sins Done against Him, Christ forgives freely without Judgment and Hell is only for when we are not forgiven by others whom we have wronged (John 12:48 mentions this as ‘others’ – —> where the Wrath of God is ‘on behalf as He drinks the Cup of Wrath without which He does not have it as even the Infamous Judgment Verses in Matthew 25 prove this context as it is based on how good/wickedly we treat the least of our brethren’, – unbelief is part of a cause of treating others badly as we only treat/do good to others according to what we believe) as explained in detail in previous posts, Verses:
“You judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 8:15, NASB)
“If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 12:47, NASB)
Christ Saves even after we judge each other till the last penny (hence not forever) toward those who wronged us (a choice, e. g. John 20:23) as the Lake of Fire is the ‘Aeonian Judgment’ in Gehenna Context, in Consecutive Verses below:
“… 22but I — I say to you, that every one who is angry at his brother without cause, shall be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Empty fellow! shall be in danger of the sanhedrim, and whoever may say, Rebel! shall be in danger of the GEHENNA (Hell) of the fire. 23‘If, therefore, thou mayest bring thy gift to the altar, and there mayest remember that thy brother hath anything against thee, 24leave there thy gift before the altar, and go — first be reconciled to thy brother, and then having come bring thy gift. 25‘Be agreeing with thy opponent quickly, while thou art in the way with him, that the opponent may not deliver thee to the judge, and the judge may deliver thee to the officer, and to prison thou mayest be cast, 26verily I say to thee, thou mayest NOT COME FORTH thence TILL that thou mayest PAY the LAST FARTHING (Penny).” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:22 – 26, YLT)
Please note carefully in Christ’s Own Blessed Words that those who do not enter the kingdom of heavens (Matthew 5:20 on account of their righteousness not exceeding the Pharisees) end up in Gehenna (Lake of Fire) as per above where they may only get out after they pay the last penny or farthing as it is demanded by ‘others’ (not Christ, e. g. the magistrate, brother or opponents, John 12:48) where Christ only allows this as a Righteous Judge on behalf of the Victims.
“and if any one may hear my sayings, and not believe, I — I do NOT JUDGE HIM, for I came not that I might judge the world, but that I might save the world. He who is rejecting me, and not receiving my sayings, HATH ONE who is JUDGING HIM (not Christ), the word that I spake, that will judge him in the last day,” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 12:47 – 48, YLT)
Note: “the word that I spake, that will judge him in the last day” in last line above = ‘the Providence for others or Victims to Judge the wicked into Gehenna as Described in Matthew 5:22 – 26 prior’. Can you see it?
*(emphasis mine throughout)
All Sins of Men will eventually be Forgiven in this age or by the age to come except the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which may be forgiven after that age only, to quote:
“Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. “Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 12:31 – 32, NASB)
Eternity is a LONG Series of AGES and so hope remains for the Blashphemy of the Holy Spirit to be forgiven on the eigth day henceforth as Explained in earlier posts as per St. Justin Martyr’s quote while the truth that Immortality is NOT an eternal age but that it consists of one age (aeon) followed by the other is defined clearly by this earliest most orthodox Koine Greek Speaking leader of the Church (whose apostolic authority and orthodoxy lineage is third from apostle John himself), to quote:
To quote:
Body and Soul do NOT exist forever but are subject to God granting its existence from ‘age to age’ or ‘aeon to aeon’, that is from ‘one aeon to the next’:
” … But ALL THINGS which proceed from Him, WHATSOEVER have been MADE, and are made, do indeed receive their own beginning of generation, and on this account are INFERIOR to Him who formed them, inasmuch as they are not unbegotten. Nevertheless THEY ENDURE, and EXTEND their EXISTENCE into a LONG SERIES of AGES in accordance with the WILL of GOD their Creator; so that He GRANTS them that they should be thus formed at the beginning, and that they should so exist afterwards.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXXIV, Point 2)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html
Source Post:
To quote:
Afterlife Judgment is to the “Ages/Aeons” or “forever”?
Will the Wicked be in Hell forever* or to the “ages” (Aeons)?
To quote:
“THE SOUL OF A ROBBER
A robber died and entered the world of spirits… On this one of the angels said, “If spirits of this kind were not kept down in the darkness or the bottomless pit, then they would cause immense harm wherever they might go. This man’s conscience is so dead, that even after he has reached the world of spirits, he fails to recognize that, by murdering and robbing in the world, he has wasted his own spiritual discernment and life. He killed and destroyed others, but in reality, he has destroyed himself. God alone knows if this man, and those who are like him, will remain in torment for ages or forever.” … A kind of lightless fire burns forever and torments these souls, but neither are they altogether consumed, nor does the fire die out. A spirit who was watching what had just happened said, “Who knows but that in the end this may not be a cleansing flame?” …”
Source:
https://reluctant-messenger.com/sadhu-sundar-singh.htm
*for ever an ever = more accurately, to the ‘ages of Ages’ or ‘to the aeons of Aeons’ (e. g. Even the Maximum Judgment Sentence in Revelation 20:10) – the ‘same phrase’ to which St. Irenaeous himself has stated that it refers to the ‘aeons’ only, in his own words (definition) below:
“… we ourselves, when at the giving of thanks we pronounce the words, “To Aeons of Aeons” do set forth these Aeons. And, in fine, wherever the words Aeon or Aeons occur, they at once refer them to these beings.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Chapter III, Book I)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html
So, Sadhu Sundar Singh’s “ages” (Greek “Aeons” – long but unknown limited duration of time concept) is the same as First Christianity’s understanding of it as St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – 202 AD) Orthodox Quote above agrees Perfectly.
Source Post:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/amp/
Peace to you
Messianic Christ Centered Universalism
Messianic Universalism in Psalm 22:29 (Verse in Image) toward one whose soul is destroyed in Gehenna (Matthew 10:28, Mark 8:36) or not alive being ‘repaired’ on the Eigth Day of the ‘later Day of Rain’, to quote:
We can hear the positive attitude about rain from some ancient Jewish sources:
The day of rain is greater than the resurrection of the dead, because the resurrection of the dead benefits only the righteous, but rain benefits both the righteous and the unrighteous. (Babylonian Talmud, Ta’anit 7a)
Also, in an ancient commentary on Psalm 117:1 (Praise the LORD, all you nations; extol him, all you peoples.), the rabbinic discussion followed:
At what times are all men equal, and when do the nations worship God?”
“On the day when all rejoice.”
“When is that?”
“When the rain comes down, and all rejoice and praise God.”
Source:
https://engediresourcecenter.com/2015/07/07/the-blessing-of-rain/
Peace to you
Christ Centered Universalism in the Shepherd of Hermas for those rejected from being the Tower of Repentance or His Church
The Shepherd of Hermas Scripture explains the Infamous Vision of the Tower of Repentance representing the Church (His Elect, His Bride) and also mentions all the non-Elect fallen Backslidden Lawless Christian ones who cannot be Saved (an example of the “Unsaved”) to be fitted into ‘another place’ which is NOT this Tower after enduring afterlife Judgments accordingly.
These Verses below clearly Prove that there exists ‘Unsaved ones’ (those not of this Tower of Repentance or His Church) but may ‘repent later during afterlife Judgments and may be fitted into other much lower afterlife abodes according to their deeds’, (please don’t take my word or anyone’s for it but rather, please ‘read Carefully’ and decide for yourselves if it is so below), to quote:
“3[11]:1 When she had shown me these things, she wished to hurry away. I say to her, “Lady, what advantage is it to me to have seen these things, and yet not to know what the things mean? “She answered and said unto me, “Thou art an over-curious fellow, in desiring to know all that concerns the tower.” “Yea, lady,” I said, “that I may announce it to my brethren, and that they [may be the more gladdened and] when they hear [these things] they may know the Lord in great glory.” Then said she,
3[11]:2 “Many shall hear; but when they hear, some of them shall be glad, and others shall weep. Yet even these latter, if they hear and repent, shall likewise be glad. Hear thou therefore the parables of the tower; for I will reveal all things unto thee. And trouble me no more about revelation; for these revelations have an end, seeing that they have been completed. Nevertheless thou wilt not cease asking for revelations; for thou art shameless.”
3[11]:3 The tower, which thou seest building, is myself, the Church, which was seen of thee both now and aforetime. Ask, therefore, what thou willest concerning the tower, and I will reveal it unto thee, that thou mayest rejoice with the saints.”
3[11]:4 I say unto her, “Lady, since thou didst hold me worthy once for all, that thou shouldest reveal all things to me, reveal them.” Then she saith to me, “Whatsoever is possible to be revealed to thee, shall be revealed. Only let thy heart be with God, and doubt not in thy mind about that which thou seest.”
3[11]:5 I asked her, “Wherefore is the tower builded upon waters, lady?” “I told thee so before,” said she, “and indeed thou dost enquire diligently. So by thy enquiry thou discoverest the truth. Hear then why the tower is builded upon waters; it is because your life is saved and shall be saved by water. But the tower has been founded by the word of the Almighty and Glorious Name, and is strengthened by the unseen power of the Master.”
4[12]:1 I answered and said unto her, “Lady, this thing is great and marvelous. But the six young men that build, who are they, lady?” “These are the holy angels of God, that were created first of all, unto whom the Lord delivered all His creation to increase and to build it, and to be masters of all creation. By their hands therefore the building of the tower will be accomplished.”
4[12]:2 “And who are the others who are bringing the stones in?” “They also are holy angels of God; but these six are superior to them. The building of the tower then shall be accomplished, and all alike shall rejoice in the (completed) circle of the tower, and shall glorify God that the building of the tower was accomplished.”
4[12]:3 I enquired of her, saying, “Lady, I could wish to know concerning the end of the stones, and their power, of what kind it is.” She answered and said unto me, “It is not that thou of all men art especially worthy that it should be revealed to thee; for there are others before thee, and better than thou art, unto whom these visions ought to have been revealed. But that the name of God may be glorified, it hath been revealed to thee, all shall be revealed, for the sake of the doubtful-minded, who question in their hearts whether these things are so or not. Tell them that all these things are true, and that there is nothing beside the truth, but that all are steadfast, and valid, and established on a firm foundation.
5[13]:1 “Hear now concerning the stones that go to the building The stones that are squared and white, and that fit together in their joints, these are the apostles and bishops and teachers and deacons, who walked after the holiness of God, and exercised their office of bishop and teacher and deacon in purity and sanctity for the elect of God, some of them already fallen on sleep, and others still living. And because they always agreed with one another, they both had peace among themselves and listened one to another. Therefore their joinings fit together in the building of the tower.”
5[13]:2 “But they that are dragged from the deep, and placed in the building, and that fit together in their joinings with the other stones that are already builded in, who are they?” “These are they that suffered for the name of the Lord.”
5[13]:3 “But the other stones that are brought from the dry land, I would fain know who these are, lady.” She said, “Those that go to the building, and yet are not hewn, these the Lord hath approved because they walked in the uprightness of the Lord, and rightly performed His commandments.”
5[13]:4 “But they that are brought and placed in the building, who are they?” “They are young in the faith, and faithful; but they are warned by the angels to do good, because wickedness was found in them.”
5[13]:5 “But those whom they rejected and threw away, who are they?” “These have sinned, and desire to repent, therefore they were not cast to a great distance from the tower, because they will be useful for the building, if they repent. They then that shall repent, if they repent, will be strong in the faith, if they repent now while the tower is building. But if the building shall be finished, they have no more any place, but shall be castaways. This privilege only they have, that they lie near the tower.
5[13]:1 But wouldst thou know about them that are broken in pieces, and cast away far from the tower? These are the sons of lawlessness. They received the faith in hypocrisy, and no wickedness was absent from them. Therefore they have not salvation, for they are not useful for building by reason of their wickednesses. Therefore they were broken up and thrown far away by reason of the wrath of the Lord, for they excited Him to wrath.
5[13]:2 But the rest whom thou hast seen lying in great numbers, not going to the building, of these they that are mildewed are they that knew the truth, but did not abide in it, nor cleave to the saints. Therefore they are useless.”
5[13]:3 “But they that have the cracks, who are they?” “These are they that have discord in their hearts against one another, and are not at peace among themselves; who have an appearance of peace, but when they depart from one another, their wickednesses abide in their hearts. These are the cracks which the stones have.
5[13]:4 But they that are broken off short, these have believed, and have their greater part in righteousness, but have some parts of lawlessness; therefore they are too short, and are not perfect.”
5[13]:5 “But the white and round stones, which did not fit into the building, who are they, lady?” She answered and said to me, “How long art thou foolish and stupid, and enquirest everything, and understandest nothing? These are they that have faith, but have also riches of this world. When tribulation cometh, they deny their Lord by reason of their riches and their business affairs.”
5[13]:6 And I answered and said unto her, “When then, lady, will they be useful for the building?” “When,” she replied, “their wealth, which leadeth their souls astray, shall be cut away, then will they be useful for God. For just as the round stone, unless it be cut away, and lose some portion of itself, cannot become square, so also they that are rich in this world, unless their riches be cut away, cannot become useful to the Lord.
5[13]:7 Learn first from thyself When thou hadst riches, thou wast useless; but now thou art useful and profitable unto life. Be ye useful unto God, for thou thyself also art taken from the same stones.
7[15]:1 “But the other stones which thou sawest cast far away from the tower and falling into the way and rolling out of the way into the regions where there is no way, these are they that have believed, but by reason of their double heart they abandon their true way. Thus thinking that they can find a better way, they go astray and are sore distressed, as they walk about in the regions where there is no way.
7[15]:2 But they that fall into the fire and are burned, these are they that finally rebelled from the living God, and it no more entered into their hearts to repent by reason of the lusts of their wantonness and of the wickednesses which they wrought.
7[15]:3 But the others, which are near the waters and yet cannot roll into the water, wouldest thou know who are they? These are they that heard the word, and would be baptized unto the name of the Lord. Then, when they call to their remembrance the purity of the truth, they change their minds, and go back again after their evil desires.”
7[15]:4 So she finished the explanation of the tower.
7[15]:5 Still importunate, I asked her further, whether for all these stones that were rejected and would not fit into the building of the tower that was repentance, and they had a place in this tower. “They can repent,” she said, “but they cannot be fitted into this tower.
7[15]:6 Yet they shall be fitted into another place much more humble, but not until they have undergone torments, and have fulfilled the days of their sins. And they shall be changed for this reason, because they participated in the Righteous Word; and then shall it befall them to be relieved from their torments, if the evil deeds, that they have done, come into their heart; but if these come not into their heart, they are not saved by reason of the hardness of their hearts.” – Shepherd of Hermas (Vision 3)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd-lightfoot.html
The Shepherd of Hermas has always been accepted from First Christianity till today as Scripture or equivalent as it is discussed in link below:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shepherd_of_Hermas
Conclusion
Please note carefully that the Hope of Repentance in the afterlife is for “ALL THESE REJECTED STONES” to be fitted into another place much lower and humble and not only some of these rejected stones (as the Roman Catholic Idea of Purgatory limits) – proving more in the direction of Christ Centered Universalism only if you understand each type of rejected stones that will never be His Church (or Tower) as Described in the above. Are we really reading it “as it is Written?”
In other words, there are those who will be saved post afterlife Judgment who are NOT part of His Church = i. e. those who are NOT part of “This Tower” (of Repentance – Can you see it?) .
Also, such “lawless” ones are called “unsaved” from the Context of the Tower of Repentance but will be Saved if they repent in the afterlife during the Judgment for their sins – can you see this too clearly as it is written?
I repeat,
Is Afterlife Repentance possible for ALL THESE REJECTED STONES post afterlife Judgment?
Yes. To quote [all these quotes are from the Scripture of the ‘Shepherd of Hermas’ Writing unless stated otherwise – please take note ‘carefully’]:
7[15]:5 Still importunate, I asked her further, whether for ALL THESE STONES that were REJECTED and would not fit into the building of the TOWER that was REPENTANCE, and they had a place in this tower. “THEY CAN REPENT” she said, “but they CANNOT be fitted into THIS TOWER.
7[15]:6 Yet THEY shall be fitted into ANOTHER PLACE much more humble, but not until they have UNDERGONE TORMENTS and have FULFILLED THE DAYS OF THEIR SINS. And they shall be changed for this reason, because they participated in the Righteous Word; and then shall it befall them to be relieved from their torments, if the evil deeds, that they have done, come into their heart; but if these come not into their heart, they are not saved by reason of the hardness of their hearts.”
The phrase “they participated in the Righteous Word” proves that these rejected stones are Backslidden Lawless Christians whose afterlife Judgment Sentence is the Same as the Unbelievers (as per Luke 12:46) some of whom must endure the “Aeonian (age-during, eternal) Judgment Sentence” (Matthew 25:46) being “Lawless in the end, right?” (Matthew 7:20 – 23) who get this chance of repentance (Revelation 22:17) as the Shepherd of Hermas explains prior where it refers to ‘Lawless Christians too’ (Context) as one of the earlier quote includes this definition as ‘part of the all these rejected stones’ (Context) as illustrated as an example below for clarity, to quote:
“5[13]:1 But wouldst thou know about them that are broken in pieces, and cast away far from the tower? These are the sons of lawlessness. They received the faith in hypocrisy, and no wickedness was absent from them. Therefore they have not salvation, for they are not useful for building by reason of their wickednesses. Therefore they were broken up and thrown far away by reason of the wrath of the Lord, for they excited Him to wrath.” – Shepherd of Hermas
Can you see it too?
A Blessing to those who listen and believe in the Shepherd of Hermas Writing
“2[23]:5 Go therefore, and declare to the elect of the Lord His mighty works, and tell them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation which is to come. If therefore ye prepare yourselves beforehand, and repent (and turn) unto the Lord with your whole heart, ye shall be able to escape it, if your heart be made pure and without blemish, and if for the remaining days of your life ye serve the Lord blamelessly. Cast your cares upon the Lord and He will set them straight… 2[23]:6 Trust ye in the Lord, ye men of doubtful mind, for He can do all things, yea, He both turneth away His wrath from you, and again He sendeth forth His plagues upon you that are of doubtful mind. Woe to them that hear these words and are disobedient; it were better for them that they had not been born.” … 3[24]:6 Wherefore cease not thou to speak in the ears of the saints. Ye have now the symbolism also of the tribulation which is coming in power. But if ye be willing, it shall be nought. Remember ye the things that are written beforehand.” – Shepherd of Hermas (Vision 4)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd-lightfoot.html
Peace to you
Lake of Fire – Hope for the Wicked One Day?
Here’s A Beautiful Payer from the Heart
(Shared via Eclectic Orthodoxy)
“Through these sighs of sorrow and laments
Arranged in numerous forms,
Have mercy on all souls,
O blessed, forbearing King,
And especially on those souls
Cut off from any hope
Of a life of salvation,
Those who have gone to their rest unprepared,
Their lamps extinguished from lack of oil.
Remember them, my Lord of compassion.”
~ St Gregory of Narek
Hope Remains because what His righteous “ask many times”, they will get eventually according to these ancient Christian Prophecies regarding Salvation from the Lake of Fire (Gehenna) toward the Wicked eventually:
1) Apocalypse of Elijah
“Then the sinners [ in torment ] will see the place of the righteous. And thus GRACE WILL OCCUR. In THOSE DAYS, that which the RIGHTEOUS will ASK for MANY TIMES WILL BE GIVEN to them.” – Apocalypse of Elijah (Veses 28 – 29)
Source:
http://www.3-in-1.net/Pseudepigrapha/ApocalypseofElijah/TheApocalypseofElijah.htm
2) Apocalypse of Peter
From Page 535 of the ‘Lost Orthodoxy’ Book:
“There is a great deal more of the Ethiopic text, but it is very evidently of later date; the next words are: Next: ‘ The Father hath committed all judgement unto the Son.’ The destiny of sinners -their eternal [AGE-DURING] doom- is more than Peter can endure: he appeals to Christ to have pity on them. And my Lord answered me and said to me: ‘Hast thou understood that which I said unto thee before? It is permitted unto thee to know that concerning which thou askest: but thou must not tell that which thou hearest unto the sinners lest they transgress the more, and sin.’ Peter weeps many hours, and is at last consoled by an answer which, though exceedingly diffuse and vague does seem to promise ultimate pardon for all: ‘My Father will give unto them all the life, the glory, and the kingdom that passeth not away,’ . . . ‘It is because of them that have believed in Me that I am come. It is also because of them that have believed in Me, that, at their word, I shall have pity on men.’ The doctrine that sinners will be saved at last by the prayers of the righteous is, rather obscurely, enunciated in the Second Book of the Sibylline Oracles (a paraphrase, in this part, of the Apocalypse), and in the (Coptic) Apocalypse of Elias (see post). Ultimately Peter orders Clement to hide this revelation in a box, that foolish men may not see it. The passage in the Second Book of the Sibylline Oracles which seems to point to the ultimate salvation of all sinners will be found in the last lines of the translation given below.”
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apocalypsepeter-mrjames.html
3) Sibyline Oracles – apostle Paul & St. Justin Martyr told us to Read it
Really?
To quote:
SIBYL and HYSTASPES – Mystery of what actually did Hystaspes Say?
To Quote (in the Context of Christian Theology – I quote Justin Martyr and Clement of Alexandria below):
The following texts refer to Hystaspes and may thus be quoted with confidence as excerpts from the oracles of Hystaspes:
(1) Justin Martyr (ca. 150 C.E.), Apology I, 20, 1 (ed. J. K. Th. von Otto, p. 62; cf. Bidez and Cumont, II, p. 361), Greek: “And both the Sibyl and Hystaspes have said that the extermination of the corrupt will happen by fire.”
(2) Clement of Alexandria (ca. 190 C.E.), Stromata VI, 5, 1 (ed. O. Stählin, p. 453; cf. Bidez and Cumont, II, pp. 362-63), Greek, quoting an apocryphal speech by Paul: “Grasp also the Hellenic books, recognize the Sibyl more perfectly . . . , and grasp and read Hystaspes, and you will find the Son of God described much more distinctly and clearly, and how against Christ many kings will fight, hating him and those who bear his name, and his followers, and the suffering [of Christ] and his coming.”
Source:
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/hystaspes-oracles-of
Is Clement of Alexandria mentioning a Secret that apostle Paul tried to say in regards to Hystaspes when he writes, ‘quoting an apocryphal speech by Paul’?
Is that why Justin Martyr (knowing this) also quotes Hystaspes in a ‘Universal Salvation’ manner —-> saying, ‘extermination of the corrupt will happen by fire’ —> which refers to the extermination of the ‘corrupt’ (sin & evil) —> as even the SIBYL quoted together in the above obviously taught Universal Salvation (proving this Context Stronger), to quote:
“… for a long day will God make.
And to the pious will the almighty God
405 Imperishable grant another thing,
When they shall ask the imperishable God:
That he will suffer men from raging fire
And endless gnawing anguish to be saved;
And this will he do. For hereafter he
410 Will pluck them from the restless flame, elsewhere
Remove them, and for his own people’s sake
Send them to other and eternal life
With the immortals, in Elysian field,” (Sibyline Oracles, Book II, 297-322, p. 51)
Translation Source:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/sib/sib04.htm
4) St. Justin Martyr
Can the Wicked be Converted as Children to be Saved?
Yes, to quote:
Here is a rarely known Secret:
Even the ‘wicked’ (the “enemies”) will one day submit back to God post-afterlife Judgments (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28) and be ‘converted’ like children too as per this Ancient Rarely known Orthodox Quote from a king of Christian Theology:
Here is the Mystery of the Twelve Bells on Christ’s High Priesthood Garment: The Gospel will be Preached throughout the “World” by the “Apostles” literally including the afterlife regions (as the Shepherd of Hermas Scripture – endorsed even by St. Irenaeous of Lyons as Scripture – Quotes above) toward the end that even the “Wicked” becomes like a “child” (Post-Judgment and Gospel acceptance – in the afterlife, – the word being made “Subject” implies this irrefutably in the ‘Context of All His Enemies, e. g. 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28’ too) – Says who?
To quote, another Orthodox First Christianity Quote Revealing this Mystery:
“Moreover, the prescription that twelve bells be attached to the [robe] of the high priest, which hung down to the feet, was a symbol of the twelve apostles, who depend on the power of Christ, the eternal Priest; and through their voice it is that all the earth has been filled with the glory and grace of God and of His Christ. Wherefore David also says: ‘Their sound has gone forth into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.’ … But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child…” – St. Justin Martyr (100 AD – 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho, CHAPTER XLII)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
5) Lake of Fire or Gehenna as a means of Universal Salvation – St. Justin Martyr and St. Clement of Alexandria
Really?
Yes. In fact, both of them quote these same passage from ‘Greek Philosophy’ in the Context of the ‘part they got right’ as follows (please compare and see ‘how identical’ they each quote & believe this same passage’ in the Context of the ‘Lake of Fire’):
“Then further concerning Him, that He alone is powerful, both to institute judgment on the deeds performed in life, and on the ignorance of the Deity [displayed by men], I can adduce witnesses from your own ranks; and first Sophocles, who speaks as follows:
That time of times shall come, shall surely come,
When from the golden ether down shall fall
Fire’s teeming treasure, and in burning flames
All things of earth and heaven shall be consumed;
And then, when all creation is dissolved,
The sea’s last wave shall die upon the shore,
The bald earth stript of trees, the burning air
No winged thing upon its breast shall bear.
There are two roads to Hades, well we know;
By this the righteous, and by that the bad,
On to their separate fates shall tend; and He,
Who all things had destroyed, shall all things save.” – St. Justin Martyr (CHAPTER 3, Testimonies to a future judgment, On the Sole Government of God)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-sole.html
Focus Phrase: “That time of times shall come, … in burning flames All things of earth and heaven shall be consumed; And then, when all creation is dissolved, … here are two roads to Hades, well we know; By this the righteous, and by that the bad, On to their separate fates shall tend… and He, Who all things had destroyed, shall all things save” – St. Justin Martyr
Even Finer Focus: “That time of times shall come, … in burning flames All things of earth and heaven shall be consumed; And then, when all creation is dissolved, … and He,
Who all things had destroyed, shall all things save” – St. Justin Martyr
Even, Even Finer Focus: ” and He, Who all things had destroyed, shall all things save” – St. Justin Martyr
I repeat with emphasis (please note that ‘all that is destroyed in this Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:5) will be Restored or Made New’, Revelation 21:5):
” and He, Who ALL THINGS had DESTROYED, shall ALL THINGS SAVE” – St. Justin Martyr
Can you see now that St. Justin Martyr himself believed in Universal Salvation in quote above irrefutably that the ‘same ALL CREATED THINGS’ (Colossians 1:16) which is DESTROYED in the LAKE of FIRE (Revelation 21:8) will be MADE NEW (Revelation 21:5) and SAVED (Colossians 1:20), yes toward ALL CREATION eventually (Romans 8:20 – 22). Though the Whole World may be engulfed in the Fire from the Lake of Fire, ‘believers (Sheepfold1)’ cannot be harmed in any way by this “Second Death” (Revelation 20:4 – 6, Revelation 2:11).
Lord Jesus Christ Saves even from Hades now to the Final Lake of Fire (Gehenna)
“… There is an eye of justice, which sees all. For two ways, as we deem, to Hades lead- One for the good, the other for the bad. But if the earth hides both for ever, then Go plunder, steal, rob, and be turbulent. But err not. For in Hades judgment is, Which God the Lord of all will execute, Whose name too dreadful is for me to name, Who gives to sinners length of earthly life. If any mortal thinks, that day by day, While doing ill, he eludes the gods keen sight, His thoughts are evil; and when justice has The leisure, he shall then detected be So thinking. Look, whoe’er you be that say That there is not a God. There is, there is. If one, by nature evil, evil does, Let him redeem the time; for such as he Shall by and by due punishment receive.” And with this agrees the tragedy in the following lines: “For there shall come, shall come that point of time, When Ether, golden-eyed, shall ope its store Of treasured fire; and the devouring flame, Raging, shall burn all things on earth below, And all above.” . . .And after a little he adds: “And when the whole world fades, And vanished all the abyss of ocean’s waves, And earth of trees is bare; and wrapt in flames, The air no more begets the winged tribes; Then He who all destroyed, shall all restore.” – – St. Clement of Alexandria (c.150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 5)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book5.html
Focus Phrase: “And when the whole world fades, And vanished all the abyss of ocean’s waves, And earth of trees is bare; and wrapt in flames, The air no more begets the winged tribes; Then He who all destroyed, shall all restore.” – St. Clement of Alexandria
Even Finer Focus: “He who all destroyed, shall all restore”
I repeat with emphasis (please note that ‘all that is destroyed in this Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:5) will be Restored or Made New’, Revelation 21:5):
“He who ALL DESTROYED, shall ALL RESTORE.” – St. Clement of Alexandria
Source for these Quotes:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/save-those-destroyed-or-perished/
Peace to you
No Swords in the Flesh – A Beautiful and an Important Biblical Truth in Image
Christ Said to Peter, “Peter, put back your sword back in its sheath…”
“Then Jesus said to him [apostle Peter], “Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword.” (Matthew 26:52, NASB)
or
“So Jesus said to Peter, “Put the sword into the sheath; the cup which the Father has given Me, shall I not drink it?” (John 18:11, NASB)
Why?
There is NO killing of anybody endorsed by the New Testament Holy Scripture for any Reason simply because we are now commanded to NOT ‘struggle against any flesh and blood’ (i.e. no fighting against other human beings who are our enemies either as the Verse below Commands & in fact we are Commanded to NOT ‘hate our enemy’ but the contrary to ‘Love our enemies’ in Matthew 5:42 – 44 by our Most Loving Saviour Himself), to quote:
“For our struggle is NOT AGAINST FLESH and BLOOD, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 6:12, NASB)
“You have heard that it was said, … HATE YOUR ENEMY… But I say to you, LOVE YOUR ENEMIES …” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:43 – 44, NASB)
Please read this last Verse and note the opposite phrases ‘HATE YOUR ENEMY’ (as even some preachers wrongly quote Old Testament Verses preaching this) while it is CHRIST HIMSELF Who CANCELS or NULLIFIES it by saying “But I say to you, LOVE YOUR ENEMIES”.
Can you REALLY see it?
Whom are we going to OBEY?
Do NOT obey what God has Cancelled.
Let us Remember and Act likewise as Christians.
“How much one Loves God is reflected by how much one loves others including their enemies” – Anonymous
Peace to you
Mystical Christianity – Christ Centered Universalism
Example: Forgotten Christianity through the eyes of a Forgotten Christian Mystic – Sadhu Sundar Singh
Why is he important?
The very fact that Lord Jesus Christ appeared to him personally in modern times and not to most of us points this importance. Even the late Dr DGS Dhinakaran (who probably is India’s most influential Christian Preacher from the Eternal Hell Camp, endorsed by Benny Hinn) during one of his own ‘eternal Hell-heaven visions itself’ testifies that he (DGS Dhinakaran) saw Sadhu Sundar Singh in heaven (in his famous book about his heavenly visions).
Interestingly, the penniless-Christian Mystic Sadhu Sundar Singh also had his own Visions of Heaven and Hell but that Hell was not eternal agreeing to the Earliest First Christianity visions (e. g. the Apocalypse of Peter, the Apocalypse of Elijah, the Sibyline Oracles and possibly the Shepherd of Hermas to some extent) deepening this Mystery or Hidden Truth which is Found in Holy Scripture as Discussed in Previous posts too (e. g. John 12:32 and 1 Timothy 4:10).
Here are some of Sadhu Sundar Singh’s Mystical Vision Quotes agreeing to such Bible Verses, to quote:
“A PROUD MINISTER AND A HUMBLE WORKMAN
A minister who looked on himself as an exceedingly learned and religious man died at a ripe old age. And without doubt, he was a good man. When the angels came to take him to the place appointed for him by the Lord in the world of spirits, they brought him into the intermediate state, and left him there with many other good spirits, who had lately arrived, in charge of those angels who are appointed to instruct good souls, while they themselves went back to usher in another good spirit. In that intermediate heaven, there are grades upon grades right up to the higher heavens, and the grade into which any soul is admitted for instruction, is determined by the real goodness of his life on earth.
When the angels, who had put this minister in his grade, came back conducting in the other soul, for whom they had gone, they brought him up beyond the grade in which the minister was, on their way up to a higher plane. Seeing this the minister in a blustering voice called out, “What right have you to leave me half-way up to that glorious country, while You take this other man away up near to it? Neither in holiness, nor in anything else, am I in any way less than this man, or than you yourselves.” The angels replied, “There is no question here of great or small, or of more or less, but a man is put into whatever grade he has merited by his life and faith. You are not quite ready yet for that upper grade, so you will have to remain here for a while, and learn some of the things that our fellow-workers are appointed to teach. Then, when the Lord commands us, we will, with great pleasure, take you with us to that higher sphere.” He said, “I have been teaching people all my life about the way to reach heaven. What more have I to learn? I know all about it.”
Then the instructing angels said, “They must go up now, we can’t detain them, but we will answer your question. My friend, do not be offended if we speak plainly, for it is for your good. You think you are alone here, but the Lord is also here though you cannot see Him. The pride that you displayed when you said, ‘I know all about it’ prevents you from seeing Him, and from going up higher. Humility is the cure for this pride. Practice it and your desire will be granted.” After this, one of the angels told him, “The man who has just been promoted above you, was no learned or famous man. You did not look at him very carefully. He was a member of your own congregation. People hardly knew him at all, for he was an ordinary working man, and had little leisure from his work. But in his workshop, many knew him as an industrious and honest worker. All who came in contact with him recognized his Christian character. In the war, he was called up for service in France. There, one day, as he was helping a wounded comrade, he was struck by a bullet and killed.
Though his death was sudden, he was ready for it, so he did not have to remain in the intermediate state as long as you will have to do. His promotion depends, not on favoritism, but on his spiritual worthiness. His life of prayer and humility, while he was in the world, prepared him to a great extent for the spiritual world. Now he is rejoicing at having reached his appointed place, and is thanking and praising the Lord, who, in His mercy, has saved him, and given him eternal life.”
Source:
https://reluctant-messenger.com/sadhu-sundar-singh.htm
ii Existence of Sheepfold2 – Non Christian Morally Good Saved post Judgment in Hades accordingly (1 Peter 4:6, John 10:16)
“DEATH OF A PHILOSOPHER
The soul of a German philosopher entered into the world of spirits and saw from afar the incomparable glory of the spiritual world, and the boundless happiness of its people. He was delighted with what he saw, but his stubborn intellectualism stood in the way of his entering into it, and enjoying its happiness. Instead of admitting that it was real, he argued thus with himself, “There is no doubt at all that I see all this, but what proof is there that it has objective existence, and is not some illusion conjured up by my mind? From end to end of all this scene I will apply the tests of logic, philosophy and science, and then only will I be convinced that it has a reality of its own, and is no illusion.” … . I asked one of the angels what the end of this man would be, and he replied “If this man’s life had been altogether bad, then he would at once have joined the spirits of darkness, but he is not without a moral sense, so for a very long time he will wander blindly round in the dim light of the lower parts of the intermediate state, and keep on bumping his philosophical head, until tired of his foolishness, he repents. Then he will be ready to receive the necessary instruction from the angels appointed for that purpose, and, when instructed, will he be fit to enter into the fuller light of God in the higher sphere.”
Or even a sincerely wrong non-Christian Idolater may have a chance if he doesn’t hold too strongly to his false beliefs, to quote:
“THE MANIFESTATION OF CHRIST
I saw in a vision the spirit of an idolater on reaching the world of spirits begin at once to search for his god. Then the saints said to him, “There is no god here save the One True God, and Christ, who is His manifestation.” At this, the man was a good deal astonished, but being a sincere seeker after truth, he frankly admitted that he had been in error. He eagerly sought to know the correct view of truth, and asked if he might see the Christ. Shortly after this Christ manifested Himself in a dim light to him, and to others who had newly arrived in the world of spirits, because at this stage they could not have endured a full exhibition of His glory, for His glory is so surpassing that even the angels look on Him with difficulty, and cover their faces with their wings (Isaiah 6:9). When He does reveal Himself to any one He takes into account the particular stage of progress to which that soul has attained, so He appears dimly, or in the fuller light of His glory, that the sight of Him may be endured. So, when these spirits saw Christ in this dim but attractive light, they were filled with a joy and peace, which is beyond our power to describe. Bathed in the rays of His life-giving light, and with the waves of His love, which constantly flow out from Him, flowing over them, all their error was washed away. Then with all their hearts, they acknowledged Him as the Truth, and found healing, and, bowing in lowly adoration before Him, thanked and praised Him. And the saints, who had been appointed for their instruction; also rejoiced over them.”
Source:
https://reluctant-messenger.com/sadhu-sundar-singh.htm
iii. Existence of ‘the soul of the wicked men’
“A WICKED MAN PERMITTED TO ENTER HEAVEN
Once in my presence a man of evil life entered at death into the world of spirits. When the angel and saints wished to help him he at once began to curse and revile them, and say, “God is altogether unjust. He has prepared heaven for such flattering slaves as you are, and casts the rest of mankind into hell. Yet you call Him Love!” The angels replied, “God certainly is Love. He created men that they might live forever in happy fellowship with Him, but men, by their own obstinacy, and by abuse of their free will have turned their faces away from Him, and have made hell for themselves. God neither casts any one into hell, nor will He ever do so, but man himself, by being entangled in sin, creates hell for himself. God never created any hell.”
Just then, the exceedingly sweet voice of one of the high angels was heard from above saying, “God gives permission that this man may be brought into heaven.” Eagerly the man stepped forward accompanied by two angels, but when they reached the door of heaven, and saw the holy and light-enveloped place and the glorious and blessed inhabitants that dwell there, he began to feel uneasy. The angels said to him, “See how beautiful a world is this! Go a little farther, and look at the dear Lord sitting on His throne.” From the door he looked, and then as the light of the Sun of Righteousness revealed to him the impurity of his sin-defiled life, he started back in an agony of self-loathing, and fled, with such precipitancy, that he did not even stop in the intermediate state of the world of spirits, but like a stone he passed through it, and cast himself headlong into the bottomless pit.
Then the sweet and ravishing voice of the Lord was heard saying, “Look, My dear children, none is forbidden to come here, and no one forbade this man, nor has any one asked him to leave. It was his own impure life that forced him to flee from this holy place, for, ‘Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God’ (John 3:3).”
Source:
https://reluctant-messenger.com/sadhu-sundar-singh.htm
Afterlife Judgment is to the “Ages/Aeons” or “forever”?
Will the Wicked be in Hell forever* or to the “ages” (Aeons)?
To quote:
“THE SOUL OF A ROBBER
A robber died and entered the world of spirits… On this one of the angels said, “If spirits of this kind were not kept down in the darkness or the bottomless pit, then they would cause immense harm wherever they might go. This man’s conscience is so dead, that even after he has reached the world of spirits, he fails to recognize that, by murdering and robbing in the world, he has wasted his own spiritual discernment and life. He killed and destroyed others, but in reality, he has destroyed himself. God alone knows if this man, and those who are like him, will remain in torment for ages or forever.” … A kind of lightless fire burns forever and torments these souls, but neither are they altogether consumed, nor does the fire die out. A spirit who was watching what had just happened said, “Who knows but that in the end this may not be a cleansing flame?” …”
Source:
https://reluctant-messenger.com/sadhu-sundar-singh.htm
*for ever an ever = more accurately, to the ‘ages of Ages’ or ‘to the aeons of Aeons’ (e. g. Even the Maximum Judgment Sentence in Revelation 20:10) – the ‘same phrase’ to which St. Irenaeous himself has stated that it refers to the ‘aeons’ only, in his own words (definition) below:
“… we ourselves, when at the giving of thanks we pronounce the words, “To Aeons of Aeons” do set forth these Aeons. And, in fine, wherever the words Aeon or Aeons occur, they at once refer them to these beings.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Chapter III, Book I)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html
So, Sadhu Sundar Singh’s “ages” (Greek “Aeons” – long but unknown limited duration of time concept) is the same as First Christianity’s understanding of it as St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – 202 AD) Orthodox Quote above agrees Perfectly, Source:
Focus Phrase proving this simple claim:
“… we [Christian, True Believers] pronounce the words, “To aeons of Aeons” do set forth these aeons…”
Conclusion
Is there Hope for the Wcked post their Final Judgment in the Lake of Fire (as say Revelation 22:17 seem to point to “any” such “thirsty” ones including those from the “Lake of Fire” as “Fire causes Spiritual Thirst” too right as part of God Making “All things or All Creation New” – Revelation 21:5 some via Fire-Revelation 21:8)?
Sundar Singh Beautifully Reveals either possibility first but in the conclusion of the Book acknowledges that ‘Hell is not forever as all Creation will be made new/born again eventually post Judgment’ (as Romans 8:20 – 22 or 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28 implies irrefutably):
“THE MANIFESTATION OF GOD’S LOVE
Then another of the saints said, “All the inhabitants of heaven know that God is Love, but it had been hidden from all eternity that His love is so wonderful that He would become man to save sinners, and for their cleansing would die on the Cross. He suffered thus that He might save men, and all creation, which is in subjection to vanity. Thus God, in becoming man, has shown His heart to His children, but had any other means been used His infinite love would have remained forever hidden. “Now the whole creation, with earnest expectation, awaits the manifestation of the sons of God, when they shall be again restored and glorified. But, at present, they, and all creation, will remain groaning and travailing till this new creation comes to pass. And those also who have been born again groan within themselves, waiting for the redemption of the body; and the time approaches when the whole creation, being obedient to God in all things, will be freed from corruption, and from this vanity forever. Then will it remain eternally happy in God, and will fulfill in itself the purpose for which it was created. Then God will be all in all” (Rom. 8:18-23).”
Source:
https://reluctant-messenger.com/sadhu-sundar-singh.htm
During his later visions, Sadhu Sundar Singh was Revealed First Christianity’s Christ Centered Universalism via Purgatorial Hell for most first (to quote this on known technical terms). More Proof of this is found in his other translated writings ansmd biographies of those who knew him personally, for example in link below (more links and photos of related scanned pages attached for your edification):
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/sadhu-sundar-singh-a-christian-universalist/amp/
Source Post and More:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/spirit-world-the-intermediate-state-mystery/
“We Christians cannot endure to see a man being put to death, even justly.” ~ Athenagoras of Athens (133AD – 190AD)
Peace to you
Unconditional Love – God’s Love – is Agape in us?
Love (Agape) does not even keep a record of wrongs (1 Corinthians 13:5, below):
“… It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged,” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 13:5, NLT)
Or in another Manuscript:
“King James Bible
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;”
Yes, the Judgment, Hell and all that are because of ‘God Judges or more accurately that He allows the Judgment-part as the Victims/Angels demand it* and ‘ as it is Written in say Hebrews 2:2 or the Infamous Judgment Day Verses in Matthew 25 itself where He says “when you didn’t do it to the least of these, you didn’t do it to Me & Vice Versa” agreeing perfectly to not only 1 Corinthians 13 but also John 5:22, Luke 23:34 and even John 8:15, and John 12:47 – 48 where Christ does NOT Judge anyone for all sins that were done against Him Forgiving Freely (Matthew 12:31).
*(e. g. The Sentence on the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is Probably Decided this Way, to be not forgiven for exactly 2 ages, Aeon1 now and Aeon2 next setting hope of forgiveness toward such in Aeon3 onward which exists as per plural “ages (Aeons) to come, future; excluding current Aeon1 – i. e. Establishing the existence of these ages, Aeon2, Aeon3 in the future” in Ephesians 2:7. Can you see it?
God doesn’t Change and here’s 1 Corinthians 13 in full, one of my personal favorite chapter in the Bible:
“1If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. 3If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it;a but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing.
4Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
8Prophecy and speaking in unknown languagesb and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever! 9Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture! 10But when the time of perfection comes, these partial things will become useless.
11When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. 12Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.
13Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 13, NLT)
Following Lord Jesus Christ in this aspect in any little way we can is part of ‘Doing the Will of God’ in this Area as it is Set forth in the Quoted Verses and the quote in image thus is Biblical in light of the Verses below seen together in light of all these discussions:
“And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd. And it was reported to Him, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, wishing to see You.” But He [Lord Jesus Christ] answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” (Luke 8:19 – 21, NASB)
“While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! “For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.” (Matthew 12:46 – 50, NASB)
Peace to you
Forgotten First Christianity – Zero Violence
To quote (and an answer to ‘how to love your enemies?’ – Matthew 5:42 – 44):
• “We ourselves were well conversant with war, murder and everything evil, but all of us throughout the whole wide earth have traded in our weapons of war. We have exchanged our swords for plowshares, our spears for farm tools…now we cultivate the fear of God, justice, kindness, faith, and the expectation of the future given us through the Crucified One….The more we are persecuted and martyred, the more do others in ever increasing numbers become believers.”
~ Justin the Martyr (100AD – 165AD)
• “Murder, considered a crime when people commit it singly, is transformed into a virtue when they do it en masse.”
~ St. Cyprian (200AD – 258AD)
• “We who formerly hated and murdered one another now live together and share the same table. We pray for our enemies and try to win those who hate us.”
~ Justin the Martyr (100AD – 165AD)
• “To those who ask us whence we have come or whom we have for a leader, we say that we have come in accordance with the counsels of Jesus to cut down our warlike and arrogant swords of argument into ploughshares, and we convert into sickles the spears we formerly used in fighting. For we no longer take ‘sword against a nation,’ nor do we learn ‘any more to make war,’ having become sons of peace for the sake of Jesus, who is our leader, instead of following the ancestral customs in which we were strangers to the covenants.”
~ Origen (185AD – 254AD)
• “It is absolutely forbidden to repay evil with evil.”
~ Tertullian (160AD – 220AD
• “Hitherto I have served you as a soldier; allow me now to become a soldier to God. Let the man who is to serve you receive your donative. I am a soldier of Christ; it is not permissible for me to fight.”
~ Martin of Tours (315AD – 397AD)
• “Christians, instead of arming themselves with swords, extend their hands in prayer.”
~ Athanasius of Alexandria (293AD – 373AD)
• The Christian poor are “an army without weapons, without war, without bloodshed, without anger, without defilement.”
~ Clement of Alexandria (150AD – 214AD)
• “I do not wish to be a ruler. I do not strive for wealth. I refuse offices connected with military command.”
~ Tatian of Assyria (died around 185AD)
• “Above all Christians are not allowed to correct by violence sinful wrongdoings.”
~ Clement of Alexandria (150AD – 214AD)
• “The Christian does not hurt even his enemy.”
~ Tertullian (160AD – 220AD)
• “None of us offers resistance when he is seized, or avenges himself for your unjust violence, although our people are numerous and plentiful…it is not lawful for us to hate, and so we please God more when we render no requital for injury…we repay your hatred with kindness.”
~ St. Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage (died 258AD)
• “We Christians are a peaceful race…for it is not in war, but in peace, that we are trained.”
~ Clement of Alexandria (150AD – 214AD)
• “Only without the sword can the Christian wage war: the Lord has abolished the sword.”
~ Tertullian (160AD – 220AD)
• “You cannot demand military service of Christians any more than you can of priests. We do not go forth as soldiers with the Emperor even if he demands this.”
~ Origen (185AD – 254AD)
• “We who formerly treasured money and possessions more than anything else now hand over everything we have to a treasury for all and share it with everyone who needs it. We who formerly hated and murdered one another now live together and share the same table. We pray for our enemies and try to win those who hate us.”
~ Justin the Martyr (100AD – 165AD)
• “For what war should we not be fit and eager, even though unequal in numbers, we who are so willing to be slaughtered—if, according to that discipline of ours, it was not more lawful to be slain than to slay?”
~ Tertullian (160AD – 220AD)
• “The professions and trades of those who are going to be accepted into the community must be examined. The nature and type of each must be established… brothel, sculptors of idols, charioteer, athlete, gladiator…give it up or be rejected. A military constable must be forbidden to kill, neither may he swear; if he is not willing to follow these instructions, he must be rejected. A proconsul or magistrate who wears the purple and governs by the sword shall give it up or be rejected. Anyone taking or already baptized who wants to become a soldier shall be sent away, for he has despised God.”
~ Hippolytus (170AD – 236AD)
• “Christ, in disarming Peter, disarmed every soldier.”
~ Tertullian (160AD – 220AD)
• Christians “love all people, and are persecuted by all;…they are reviled, and they bless; they are insulted, and are respectful.”
~ Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus (late 2nd Century)
• “I serve Jesus Christ the eternal King. I will no longer serve your emperors…It is not right for a Christian to serve the armies of this world.”
~ Mercellus the Centurion, spoken as he left the army of Emperor Diocletian in 298AD.
• “Say to those that hate and curse you, You are our brothers!”
~ Theophilus of Antioch (died around 185AD)
• “But now inquiry is being made concerning these issues. First, can any believer enlist in the military? Second, can any soldier, even those of the rank and file or lesser grades who neither engage in pagan sacrifices nor capital punishment, be admitted into the church? No on both counts.”
~ Tertullian (160AD – 220AD)
• “For the Gentiles, hearing from our mouth the words of God, are impressed by their beauty and greatness: then, learning that our works are not worthy of the things we say, they turn to railing, saying that it is some deceitful tale. For when they hear from us that God says: ‘No thanks will be due to you, if ye love only those who love you; but thanks will be due to you, if ye love your enemies and those that hate you’—when they hear this, they are impressed by the overplus of goodness: but when they see that we do not love, not only those who hate us, but even those who love us, they laugh at us, and the Name is blasphemed.”
~ The 2nd Epistle of Clement (140-160AD)
• “Shall it be held lawful to make an occupation of the sword, when the Lord proclaims that he who uses the sword shall perish by the sword? And shall the son of peace take part in the battle when it does not become him even to sue at law?”
~ Tertullian (160AD – 220AD)
• “It is the Christians, O Emperor, who have sought and found the truth, for they acknowledge God…. They show love to their neighbors. They do not do to another what they would not wish to have done to themselves. They speak gently to those who oppress them, and in this way they make them their friends. It has become their passion to do good to their enemies…. This, O Emperor, is the rule of life of the Christians, and this is their manner of life.”
~ Aristides (written around 137AD)
• “We Christians cannot endure to see a man being put to death, even justly.”
~ Athenagoras (133AD – 190AD)
• “Learn about the incorruptible King, and know his heroes who never inflict slaughter on the peoples.”
~ Tertullian (160AD – 220AD)
• “Christians appeal to those who wrong them and make them friendly to themselves; they are eager to do good to their enemies; they are mild and conciliatory.”
~ Aristides of Athens (2nd Century)
• “I recognize no empire of this present age.”
~ Speratus (martyred 180AD)
• “For when God forbids us to kill, he not only prohibits us from open violence, which is not even allowed by the public laws, but he warns us against the commission of those beings which are esteemed lawful among men….Therefore, with regard to this precept of God, there ought to be no exception at all, but that it is always unlawful to put to death a man, whom God willed to be a sacred animal.”
~ Lactantius, instructor of Constantine’s son (240AD – 320AD)
• “Shall we carry a flag? It is a rival to Christ.”
~ Tertullian (160AD – 220AD)
• “I am a Christian. He who answers thus has declared everything at once—his country, profession, family; the believer belongs to no city on earth but to the heavenly Jerusalem.”
~ St. John Chrysostom (347AD – 407AD)
• “If anyone be a soldier or in authority, let him be taught not to oppress or to kill or to rob, or to be angry or to rage and afflict anyone. But let those rations suffice him which are given to him. But if they wish to be baptized in the Lord, let them cease from military service or from the
[post of] authority, and if not let them not be received. Let a catechumen or a believer of the people, if he desire to be a soldier, either cease from his intention, or if not let him be rejected. For he hath despised God by his thought, and leaving the things of the Spirit, he hath perfected himself in the flesh and hath treated the faith with contempt.”
~ The Testament of Our Lord (4th or 5th Century AD)
• “We have become sons of peace for the sake of Jesus, who is our leader.”
~ Origen (185AD – 254AD)
• “If you enroll as one of God’s people, then heaven is your country and God your lawgiver.”
~ Clement of Alexandria (150AD – 214AD)
• “I serve Jesus Christ the eternal King. I will no longer serve your emperors. It is not right for a Christian to serve the armies of this world.”
~ Mercellus the Centurion, spoken as he left the army of Emperor Diocletian in 298AD.
• “God called Abraham and commanded him to go out from the country where he was living. With this call God has roused us all, and now we have left the state. We have renounced all the things the world offers…. The gods of the nations are demons.”
~ Justin the Martyr (100AD – 165AD)
• “But now inquiry is being made concerning these issues. First, can any believer enlist in the military? Second, can any soldier, even those of the rank and file or lesser grades who neither engage in pagan sacrifices nor capital punishment, be admitted into the church? No on both counts—for there is no agreement between the divine sacrament and the human sacrament, the standard of Christ and the standard of the devil, the camp of light and the camp of darkness. One soul cannot serve two masters—God and Caesar…But how will a Christian engage in war (indeed, how will a Christian even engage in military service during peacetime) without the sword, which the Lord has taken away?”
~ Tertullian (160AD – 220AD)
• “This is the way of life: first, thou shalt love the God who made thee, secondly, thy neighbor as thyself: and all things whatsoever thou wouldest not should happen to thee, do not thou to another. The teaching of these words is this: Bless those who curse you, and pray for your enemies, and fast on behalf of those who persecute you: for what thanks will be due to you, if ye love only those who love you? Do not the Gentiles also do the same? But love ye those who hate you, and ye shall not have an enemy.”
~ The Didache, also known as The Teachings of the 12 Apostles, is an early Christian document written between 80AD – 90AD.
Source:
40 Early Church Quotes on Violence, Enemy Love, & Patriotism
Mystery of the Heavens – God vs the gods
As it is Written:
“1{A Psalm of Asaph.} God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; He judgeth among the gods.
2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.” (Psalm 82, KJV)
A Simple Comment:
1) Allegorical Interpretation
It could refer to human leaders in principle in some way.
2) Literal Interpretation
This is the First-Meaning set forth in these Verses which remains true. Ephesians 6:12 itself reveals the existence of these evil “gods” (Psalm 82:1) who are also called as the “Children/sons of the Most High” (Psalm 82:6). These are not humans as their punishment for failing to do good & uphold justice as their role/power given as “gods” merits them the eventual punishment to “die like men” (Psalm 82:7).
I repeat, the very fact that their punishment eventually is to “die like men” (Psalm 82:7) toward these “gods” (Psalm 82:6) or “children/sons of God-the-Most-High” (Psalm 82:6) proves that these are not humans but spiritual powers in the heavenlies where some are Good (Hebrews 2:2) while others are Evil (Ephesians 6:12).
i. Prophet Daniel’s Angelic Visit Reveals these evil gods vs God’s Angels/Archangels in the Heavens
Example: The Evil ‘god’ called the Prince of Persia vs Chief Prince Michael the Archangel
Verses:
“10Then behold, a hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees. 11He said to me, “O Daniel, man of high esteem, understand the words that I am about to tell you and stand upright, for I have now been sent to you.” And when he had spoken this word to me, I stood up trembling. 12Then he said to me, “Do not be afraid, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart on understanding this and on humbling yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to your words. 13“But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia. 14“Now I have come to give you an understanding of what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision pertains to the days yet future.” (Daniel 10:10 – 14, NASB)
ii. There will be a War in the Heavens during the Middle of the Antichrist Period in the Future where the Two Witness of God will be killed brutally by the Beast empowered by Satan
Another Example: Satan/Dragon/Serpent (the head of all Evil) vs Prince Michael the Archangel of Heaven Part
Verses:
“And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. 9And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,
“Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night. 11“And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death. 12“For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.” (Revelation 12:7 – 12, NASB)
Here’s a Secret: In Hell, the “gods” (or “mammon”) whom you have worshipped which taught you evil and all that are the very ones who torture you & your loved ones as mysteriously implied in Verses below apart from plenty of spiritual visions by the Saints such as recently by Sadhu Sundar Singh too:
“And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. 9And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting [AGE-DURING] habitations.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:8 – 9, KJV)
Eventually Lord Jesus Christ Will Come and Save you but it’s usually ‘after the last penny of Judgment’ even if it is Gehenna/Lake of Fire for the Wicked (Matthew 5:20 – 26). God does not stop the Judgment of Evil for the same reason He did not intervene and stop the evil you did in life due to the choice one made to follow after the wrong ways taught by these gods (Psalm 82:2 – 4).
Can you understand life and the afterlife now?
Please be careful of what you choose to believe and in return, how we treat other human beings especially with fairness, equality and most importantly Mercy & Love for if not, ‘these gods’ will have their right upon your soul ’till the last penny’. These are clearly revealed regarding the “Shadow of Death” Prophecies (e. g. Luke 1:79, Matthew 4:16) about the Messiah which refers to Salvation of such ones from ‘Hellish Regions’ as discussed In Detail in posts below (rarely known / understood):
This is a Deep Mystery/Secret as is Discussed in Posts Below in some Detail for further Edification:
1) Spirit World – The Intermediate State Mystery
or
2) SHADOW of DEATH – Irrefutable Context – Christ Prophesied to SAVE from HELL itself
SHADOW of DEATH – Irrefutable Context – Christ Prophesied to SAVE from HELL itself
or
SHADOW of DEATH – Irrefutable Context – Christ Prophesied to SAVE from HELL itself
3) Hell’s Missed Messianic Prophecy – SHADOW of DEATH
or
Further Related Reading:
Save those Destroyed or Perished?
or
In the End, Lord Jesus Christ Himself will Ensure that His Kingdom of the Heavens Wins upon His Return on a White Horse:
“11Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. 12He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood,a and His name is The Word of God.14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses…” – apostle John (Revelation 19:11 – 14, Berean Study Bible, BSB)
Peace to you
All Created Things will be Reconciled back to God Eventually Post Judgment for Most
“For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.” – apostle Paul (Colossians 1:16, 20, NASB)
God – His Light – Real – Fill you One Day
Only God is Perfectly Real.
Only God Alone is Eternal (“Immortal”, 1 Timothy 6:16, a Different Word from “aion/age”).
Also, God’s Light has “no darkness” at all Proving that His Light Alone will be Eternal in “All Created Things” Reconciling All (Colossians 1:16, 20) after He Fills them All (Ephesians 4:10) and becomes “All in all” creation (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28, Ephesians 1:23).
“This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.” – apostle John (1 John 1:5, NASB)
“He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 4:10, NASB)
Please note the popular misunderstanding by some Christian theologians assuming that the “all in all” refers to “Christians/His Church only” is easily debunked by the Correct Biblical Definition in Verses below “as it is Written”:
“And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 1:22 – 23, NASB)
Where in the above:
“the church” = “which is His body”
Which is “head over all things” or “all created things” (Colossians 1:16, 20) toward Him, Lord Jesus Christ Who fills not just the Church/or His Body but also that He Fills “All in all” creation (Ephesians 1:22 -23) with “nothing in creation” left out (1 Corinthians 15:27, except the Creator only) including His Enemies too eventually (1 Corinthians 15:25 – 26) where these are Prophetic Verses which are “not done yet” (Hebrews 2:8). Yes, “eventually” (Romans 11:32, James 2:13, Ephesians 1:9 – 11, 1 Timothy 2:6) toward “all men eventually too” (1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 4:9 – 11, John 12:32).
“YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET.” For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.” – Anonymous (Hebrews 2:8, NASB)
“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 12:32, NASB)
Givers – How big of a Giver are we Truly?
A Great Daily Reminder in Image.
We ought to ask ourselves daily:
Verses Implying this Context, Biblically:
“And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury. And He saw a poor widow putting in two small copper coins. And He said, “Truly I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all of them; for they all out of their surplus put into the offering; but she out of her poverty put in all that she had to live on.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 21:1 – 4, NASB)
True Heavenly Achievement lies in your giving (relative to what you have been given first) and not in your receiving or hoarding, a Warning Verse:
“Your gold and your silver have rusted; and their rust will be a witness against you and will consume your flesh like fire. It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure!” – apostle James (James 5:3, NASB)
Conclusion – Remember how Lord Jesus Christ responded to the Rich Young Ruler.
Verses:
“16Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[d] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17So He said to him, [e]“Why do you call Me good? [f]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” (Matthew 19:16 – 19, NKJV)
Lord Jesus Christ’s response didn’t end there as next, He invited the ‘keeping all commandments, rich young ruler’ toward ‘Perfection’ as follows (please note that this means that keeping all Commandments of God still falls short of Perfection unless we venture next into these grounds of Perfect-Love Giving in some way).
Example: Remembering the Lord from the Youth as per point 1 above (Ten Commandments and all that still doesn’t qualify anyone toward Christian Perfection as Christ Himself Replies next, please don’t be deceived by mere imperfect men claiming otherwise):
Verses:
“20The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [g]from my youth. What do I still lack?”
21Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
25When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (Matthew 19:20 – 26, NKJV)
Such Christians toward perfection existed especially in First Christianity as illustrated below who may be the Greatest in His Kingdom (Matthew 5:19):
“27Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”
28So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother [h]or wife or children or [i]lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and the last first.” (Matthew 19:27 – 30, NKJV)
Please note that this is the ‘Context’ or Topic (Selling “All” and giving to the Poor & only after that following Christ type of Perfection) to which the “Greatest in the Heavens” are made of (Matthew 5:19) as Christ’s Concluding Words imply this Irrefutably as “30But many who are first will be last, and the last first” in the above (Matthew 19:30).
“42They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
43Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles. 44And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common; 45and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need.” (Acts of the Apostles 2:42 – 45, NKJV)
Please note carefully that True Revival with the Greatest Genuine Miracles /Signs /Wonders happened to the First Church (Acts 2:42 – 43) which took the Command of Lord Jesus Christ to “Sell all, Give to the Poor, Share among themselves” seriously as the Context of these Verses clearly Reveal so plainly as it is Written (Acts 2:44 – 45). Can you really see what level of selflessness it takes before we even dare ask the Blessed Lord for such level of Anointing?
Just signs and wonders (though it be done by the majority or “many” who are called as Christians) but do not happen according to this Biblical Condition of “Selfless Giving first”, may be questionable according to the Infamous Denial Verses (please note that the ‘Majority or Many’ among Christians will be deceived into such Christianity just before He Returns):
“21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:21 – 23, NASB)
The Verses above point to the Denial of Many toward having part in the First Resurrection on “that Day” = “Seventh Day” = “Sabbath Rest” = 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ of the First and Highest Resurrection (Revelation 20:4 – 6) as even St. Justin Martyr and St. Irenaeous of Lyons imply this Biblical Context from their own apostolic lineage doctrine / writings as discussed in my previous posts (links in tag below if you’re interested to learn more):
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/tag/first-christianity/
Hence though I am nowhere near such Perfection of the Gospel, but I wish to share the Truth that this is what is Required toward Perfection of Love in God through Christ as it is Written. I admire such ones who were on this Path of Perfection (e. g. St. Anthony the Great or St. Francis of Assisi or even Sadhu Sundar Singh more recently).
“… Silver and Gold I have none… ” – Apostle Peter (Acts of the Apostles 3:6)
Peace to you
Paul – Apostle of Christ
If Lord Jesus Christ allowed a Spiritual Democracy to Rank His Highest Apostles, I would vote for apostle Paul to be No. 1 and I think that even the other apostles of the Lamb might just agree too.
Example of some Orthodox quotes by a king of Christian Theology agreeing to this:
“… Wherefore also Paul, since he was the apostle of the Gentiles, says, “I laboured more than they all.” For the instruction of the former, [viz., the Jews, ] was an easy task, because they could allege proofs from the Scriptures, and because they, who were in the habit of hearing Moses and the prophets, did also readily receive the First-begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the life of God,-Him who, by the spreading forth of hands, did destroy Amalek, and vivify man from the wound of the serpent, by means of faith which was [exercised] towards Him…” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XXIV, Point 1)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
” … As Luke was present at all these occurrences, he carefully noted them down in writing, so that he cannot be convicted of falsehood or boastfulness, because all these [particulars] proved both that he was senior to all those who now teach otherwise, and that he was not ignorant of the truth. That he was not merely a follower, but also a fellow-labourer of the apostles, but especially of Paul, Paul has himself declared also in the Epistles, saying: “Demas hath forsaken me, … and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia. Only Luke is with me.” From this he shows that he was always attached to and inseparable from him. And again he says, in the Epistle to the Colossians: “Luke, the beloved physician, greets you.” But surely if Luke, who always preached in company with Paul, and is called by him “the beloved,” and with him performed the work of an evangelist, and was entrusted to hand down to us a Gospel, learned nothing different from him (Paul), as has been pointed out from his words, how can these men, who were never attached to Paul, boast that they have learned hidden and unspeakable mysteries? …” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 3, Chapter XIV, Point 1)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
Comment – Regarding ‘Hidden and Unspeakable Mysteries’ as quoted by St. Irenaeous in the above, it chiefly has to do with Universal Salvation as these Mysterious ancient quotes re-sound:
Sibyline Oracles – apostle Paul & St. Justin Martyr told us to Read it
Really?
To quote:
SIBYL and HYSTASPES – Mystery of what actually did Hystaspes Say?
To Quote (in the Context of Christian Theology – I quote Justin Martyr and Clement of Alexandria below):
The following texts refer to Hystaspes and may thus be quoted with confidence as excerpts from the oracles of Hystaspes:
(1) Justin Martyr (ca. 150 C.E.), Apology I, 20, 1 (ed. J. K. Th. von Otto, p. 62; cf. Bidez and Cumont, II, p. 361), Greek: “And both the Sibyl and Hystaspes have said that the extermination of the corrupt will happen by fire.”
(2) Clement of Alexandria (ca. 190 C.E.), Stromata VI, 5, 1 (ed. O. Stählin, p. 453; cf. Bidez and Cumont, II, pp. 362-63), Greek, quoting an apocryphal speech by Paul: “Grasp also the Hellenic books, recognize the Sibyl more perfectly . . . , and grasp and read Hystaspes, and you will find the Son of God described much more distinctly and clearly, and how against Christ many kings will fight, hating him and those who bear his name, and his followers, and the suffering [of Christ] and his coming.”
Source:
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/hystaspes-oracles-of
Sibyline Oracles – as apostle Paul himself told to read this as Clement of Alexandria quotes (‘Verbal Command’ – in Principle of 2 Thessalonians 2:15)
How does this apply in the Context of Universal Salvation eventually by God’s Mercy to “All” (Romans 11:32) including both the obedient-first and disobedient-later (Romans 11:30 – 31)?
Please read further in link below (too much to explain here):
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/save-those-destroyed-or-perished/
Thank you
Peace to you
Perfection of Lord Jesus Christ in Judgment
Thought of the Day – How well do we follow after Lord Jesus Christ?
“The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act.
“Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?”
They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him.
But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground.
But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.
When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court.
Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?”
She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”].” (John 8:3 – 11, NASB)
The Message is well Put in the Quote in image.
Conclusion
1. Don’t do that sin
2. Don’t condemn those who do it
3. Teach those who do it to sin no more in Love
4. Notice that Lord Jesus Christ first asks the crowd “Does anyone condemn you?” This is how afterlife Judgment also works because He Judges no one (John 5:22, John 8:15, John 12:47) but executes Judgment (John 5:27) on behalf of the request of others (e. g. the-“other/Judge” in John 12:48, the angels-Hebrews 2:2 or Victims-Matthew 5:20 – 26-Gehenna till the Last Penny, the “least” in Matthew 25:31 – 46’s-“did do/did not do toward the least of these”reason, the choice to Judge or not inh John 20:23 toward Christians) as Demonstrated in these set of Verses too (John 3:10 – 11).
5. Why? A simple logic: God allows the others or victims or angels to judge back evil for the same reason He allowed evil or sin to be done in the first place causing some damage in some way. Judgment thus becomes a choice for us. Choose Well as to whether to Judge or not Judge others for the sins which they did against you (Luke 6:37).
Can we really understand what is Revealed in Holy Scripture in Depth?
Peace to you
Olam is not Forever – What is Actually Written in the Original Language of the Bible?
A simple proof of this well known fact amongst the Best Bible Scholars is given in the images attached regarding the Hebrew Word “Olam” which is often translated as “Forever” instead of its actually “literal meaning of age”. The author is a Messianic Jew Christian and a world renowned foremost expert too.
God of the Age or Age-during God does not mean He is not God Forever but highlights His God-Ship from “Olam to Olam” or “age to age” similar to the phrase “God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” does not limit God being God for Israel only but ‘highlights it’ & ‘not limits it’ as ‘He is God and Father of All Creation’ (Romans 3:29).
Olam (Hebrew, Old Testament Original Language) = Aeon (Koine Greek, New Testament Original Language) = Age (English) = “An unknown limited time-period with a beginning and an end”
Example of a Trustworthy Spiritual World Vision and First Christianity Orthodox Quote Revealing this Same Truth, to quote:
Will the Wicked be in Hell forever* or to the “ages” (Aeons)?
To quote:
“THE SOUL OF A ROBBER
A robber died and entered the world of spirits… On this one of the angels said, “If spirits of this kind were not kept down in the darkness or the bottomless pit, then they would cause immense harm wherever they might go. This man’s conscience is so dead, that even after he has reached the world of spirits, he fails to recognize that, by murdering and robbing in the world, he has wasted his own spiritual discernment and life. He killed and destroyed others, but in reality, he has destroyed himself. God alone knows if this man, and those who are like him, will remain in torment for ages or forever.” … A kind of lightless fire burns forever and torments these souls, but neither are they altogether consumed, nor does the fire die out. A spirit who was watching what had just happened said, “Who knows but that in the end this may not be a cleansing flame?” …”
Source:
https://reluctant-messenger.com/sadhu-sundar-singh.htm
*for ever an ever = more accurately, to the ‘ages of Ages’ or ‘to the aeons of Aeons’ (e. g. Even the Maximum Judgment Sentence in Revelation 20:10) – the ‘same phrase’ to which St. Irenaeous himself has stated that it refers to the ‘aeons’ only, in his own words (definition) below:
“… we ourselves, when at the giving of thanks we pronounce the words, “To Aeons of Aeons” do set forth these Aeons. And, in fine, wherever the words Aeon or Aeons occur, they at once refer them to these beings.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Chapter III, Book I)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html
So, Sadhu Sundar Singh’s “ages” (Greek “Aeons” – long but unknown limited duration of time concept) is the same as First Christianity’s understanding of it as St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – 202 AD) Orthodox Quote above agrees Perfectly, Source:
Lake of Fire – Gehenna – Hell – If we are Judged till the Last Penny – Why need Christ?
Focus Phrase proving this simple claim:
“… we [Christian, True Believers] pronounce the words, “To aeons of Aeons” do set forth these aeons…”
Source Post:
Peace to you
Knowing God – Beginning to End
“Fear of the Lord” is the Beginning while the “Love of God” is the End.
Verses:
i) Starting Theology
“Fear of the Lord” is the Beginning of Knowledge/Wisdom and not the End.
“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.” (Proverbs 9:10, NASB)
ii) Intermediate Theology
“And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment,” – apostle Paul (Philippians 1:9, NASB)
iii) Ending Theology
“But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 13:13, NASB)
Conclusion – Those believers who have reached the ending of Theology no more have the “Beginning-fear of God” which has been cast away by the “Ending-Perfect-Love of God” (Agape only, nothing else).
Verse:
“There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.” – apostle John (1 John 4:18, NASB)
Peace to you
Freedom – God Alone is Perfectly Free
God is Never a Prisoner because He Judges none and Forgives Freely (John 5:22, John 8:15, John 12:47, Luke 23:34). Every Judgment of God is ‘on behalf of our choices to forgive or not’ as discussed in detail previous posts with “Bible Verses” + “First Christianity Quotes” + “Trustworthy Spiritual Visions”.
Here’s a First Christianity Orthodox Quote by someone who actually walked with the apostles when they lived on the earth, to quote:
A Beautiful Truth in Image regarding Lord Jesus Christ the Sinless One but yet, He judges none:
The Father Chose not to Judge and Gave Him the Rights to Judge:
But in His Perfect Emulation of the Father, He also chose to Judge none:
“You judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 8:15, NASB)
He then passes the Judgment Rights to “us” (Christians, believers, John 20:23) and “angels” (Hebrews 2:2) where all afterlife Judgment etc. that He executes (John 5:27) is thus ‘on behalf of the Victims’ Demands’ as Matthew 25:31 – 46 as even the other Parables clearly describe this (Matthew 5:21 – 26, including “Gehenna or the Lake of Fire” till the last penny).
Thus the Orthodox First Christianity Quote below makes Perfect Sense as it is believed that St. Clement of Rome literally walked with the apostles of Lord Jesus Christ Himself in person where He clearly Writes that “God the Father has no anger at all toward any of His Creatures” (no matter how much wrong they did to Him or how Wicked they are because Post-Judgment He awaits to Heal them of their Evil and Reconcile All Created Things back to Him, Colossians 1:16, 20):
“… let us look steadfastly unto the Father and Maker of the whole world, and cleave unto His splendid and excellent gifts of peace and benefits. Let us behold Him in our mind, and let us look with the eyes of our soul unto His long-suffering will. Let us note how free from anger He is towards all His creatures.” – St. Clement of Rome* (c. 35 AD – 99 AD, 1 Clement 19:2 – 3)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/1clement-lightfoot.html
Focus Phrase proving our claim: “how free from anger He is towards all His creatures”
Source Post:
Peace to you
Overcomers
Overcome Evil by responding with Good Only.
Why?
Not just for our good only but also for their good too eventually.
“Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” – apostle Paul (Romans 12:21, NASB)
Those who do this are the “Overcomers” who will inherit the following Promise (the word “Overcome” in both Verses links these together in Context):
So, based on these Biblical Traits and Definitions, are we really “Overcomers”?
“‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’.” (Revelation 2:7, NASB)
Peace to you
Secret of the Ages – Why did Lord Jesus Christ choose to not Judge?
“He made known to us the Mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him.” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 1:9 – 10, NASB)
Verses:
“But Jesus was saying, “Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.” …” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 23:34, NASB)
“For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:22, NASB)
“You judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 8:15, NASB)
“If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 12:47, NASB)
A Great and Beautiful Mystery Indeed.
“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 12:32, NASB)
“For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 4:10, NASB)
To Judge or not is a Choice Given to “us” and “others” with equivalent Judgment readily back each time, Verses:
“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. “For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:1 -2, NASB)
“He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the Last Day.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 12:48, NASB)
“If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 20:23, NASB)
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:37, NASB)
Please, let us thus choose wisely as the “Righteous Judgment of God” or the “Wrath of God” is due to ‘our choices’ (as Victims etc. to condemn another who has wronged us as angels judge likewise too as recorded in Hebrews 2:2) but the Way of Perfection of Lord Jesus Christ & God the Father (the Highest Way, Matthew 5:19) is to ‘Forgive Freely’ as it is Written in Verses quoted which will eventually apply to All post the Gehenna/Lake of Fire Punishments for some till ‘the last penny only’ (Matthew 5:20 – 26).
The Maximum Judgment Sentence is for the Blashphemy of the Holy Spirit to two “ages/Aeons/Olam” only (the current age-Aeon1 and next Age-Aeon2) only where there is Hope for forgiveness in Aeon3 onward which exists as per the phrase “ages to come” or “Aeons to come” (plural indicating at least two future ages excluding the curent one, Aeon2, Aeon3 etc.) as it is Written Prophetically in Ephesians 2:7, to quote:
“Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. “Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age [Aeon1] or in the age to come [Aeon2].” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 12:31 – 32, NASB)
“so that in the ages to come [Aeon2, Aeon3, … ] He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 2:7, NASB)
[Emphasis Mine for Clarity]
Peace to you
Fair or Unfair?
I think that this is Mother Theresa’s quote (in picture) where she also pointed out that:
“Do small things with Great Love”
Love of God (Agape) is the only way something that we do can become great which may not be seen or recognized in this world (1 Corinthians 1:27, 1 Corinthians 13) but God Who Measures fairly & relatively (including percentage-measure) will Reward you accordingly in His Kingdom (Remember that the poor widow gave the most with her two cents, Luke 21:1 – 4).
In Correct Biblical Theology, no one is at any advantage or disadvantage as everything is being measured relative to what we are given (Luke 12:48), we may all get our due according to the Love and Effort we give accordingly. So, God is Fair & Balances out everything fairly in His Kingdom (Matthew 5:19).
Conclusion
Whoever “breaks God’s Commands” are also Promised to be included one day into His Kingdom of the Heavens (but post afterlife Judgment) being “least” as “it is Written”:
“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:19, KJV)
Truly His Unconditional Love is Perfect and Unfathomable.
“And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.” – apostle John (1 John 4:14, KJV)
Blessed Be Lord Jesus Christ, our Most Loving Savior of the World .
Give – The Deepest Secrets regarding Giving
Firstly, anyone can be the biggest giver.
Really?
How?
Is it Biblical?
Yes. Please consider the following brief explanation:
The quote in image is Biblical in Principle of the Verse below where even if her giving of two cents could not buy a meal/nor had any effect on anyone, it may still be the greatest giving simply because our Just Saviour knows that ‘she gave her all in love despite her poverty’, Verses:
“And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury. And He saw a poor widow putting in two small copper coins. And He said, “Truly I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all of them; for they all out of their surplus put into the offering; but she out of her poverty put in all that she had to live on.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 21:1 – 4, NASB)
Conclusion
i. Giving must be from a Good Reason or Intention from the Heart
“… You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:15, NKJV)
ii. Volume of Giving is counted in Percentages and is never measured by the Result nor by how many people who benefited from it
God doesn’t simply say things especially when He compared her two cents giving against the “plenty from the rich who poured into the temple treasury” (a. k. a. ‘giving to God’) even though the latter may have benefited more to the poor or needy people.
Let’s look with the eyes of Truth as Christ’s Beautiful Eyes has seen and justified her.
iii. Giving must be Done with “Agape” (the ‘Love of God’)
What we think as a Great Giving in this World may one day be proven to be low-quality or even nothing (including martyrdom as the phrase ‘Give my body to be burned means’ in the next Verse below) if we do not grasp the Truth Revealed in these Verses which Reveals our heart whenever we give or to whom we choose to give:
“And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 13:3, NASB)
iv. Broadest Giving with afterlife Rewards must include sincere Giving toward ‘enemies or those who hate us in some way’ instead of ‘those who love us only’ (e. g. Family, friends, same race, same religion, etc.)
“But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, … “Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back… Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. … “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you?” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:27, 30, 31, 32, NASB, highlighting the ‘Giving Aspect Spoken in these Verses’).
v. Give Wisely or it may just be futile efforts
Why is knowing this important? (Verse below quoted in Principle)
“For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.” – apostle Paul (Romans 10:2, NASB)
Please also note Lord Jesus Christ’s Haunting Remark regarding Giving to our loved ones or our friends or those who love us only, as follows from the last set of Verses above:
“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you?…” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:32, NASB)
vi. Giving toward enemies must be done without hoping anything in return (in this life)
“But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:35, NKJV)
vii. You may Give hoping for afterlife rewards
You may look forward to an afterlife Reward or Treasure only:
“Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:33, NASB)
“But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 6:20 – 21, NASB)
Viii. How much we have Given to the poor/enemies/family etc. marks how perfect we are spiritually
“Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” (Matthew 19:21, NKJV)
“So is the man who stores up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:21, NASB)
ix. Never Pray for wealth nor desire to be rich nor love money
Being rich Biblically can happen but it must never be desired. The rule of contentment is that if we have food + clothing, we shall ask nothing more earthly wise. If it happens that we earn more so be it and if not so be it as it is “Commanded” in these “Verses”:
“For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 6:7 – 10, NKJV)
x. Highest Character Emulation in following after Lord Jesus Christ’s Perfection in this Aspect too – Empirical Proof in this life itself
‘The only sign of a loving person is when it is proven that he has loved even his enemies extravagantly though they may have robbed him of almost everything he had’ – Life Comment by a known Big-Giver to another (rephrased).
Peace to you
Azazel and the Noah’s Flood Mystery
Azazel – Been a while since I heard that Cursed Name of the fallen angel who caused so much bloodshed, sin and suffering upon mankind which after the promoting of the Archangels Michael, Gabriel, Uriel and Raphael (as recorded in the Book of Enoch), the Most High God Allowed them to Destroy these angels, the Nephilims, and mankind via the Great Noah’s Flood because to let men live would cause more suffering to increase (foreknowledge) and it’s clearly recorded (in the Book of Enoch) that ‘the blood of men slain by Azazel’s wicked angel team & their Nephilim offsprings’ is whom that demanded this Judgment from God (which resulted in the Noah’s Food).
Can we truly understand God’s Judgment or the Wrath of God concept Biblically as ‘on behalf of the Victims now’?
So it will be at the end of this Age / Aeon / Olam as Prophesied from ancient times itself.
Conclusion – Keyword: “the wicked & sheepfold2 will not understand” until after it has taken place
Verses:
“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. “For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:37 – 39, NASB)
Peace to you
One of the best church leaders to ever walk the
earth – St. Gregory of Nyssa
The only one the Ecumenical Council has ever called ‘father of fathers’ to its theologian. To quote:
“… But also four hundred years after his death the Seventh Ecumenical Council gave him the one and only title which it has given to theologians in the Church, naming him “father of fathers”….”
Source:
https://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2011/01/saint-gregory-of-nyssa-father-of.html?m=1
Personally, I would prefer the term “leader of leaders” instead of “father of fathers” because God Commanded to call no man as a father in the Context of a religious leader, that is as a ‘spiritual father’ in a ‘leadership title’ is to be avoided (Matthew 23:9). To quote one’s role as a spiritual father is okay (2 Timothy 1:2, Titus 1:4, 1 Corinthians 4:15, Philippians 2:19 – 22).
To quote a little more:
“Gregory seems to have believed in the universal salvation of all human beings. Gregory argues that when Paul says that God will be “all in all” (1 Cor. 15:28), this means that though some may need long time of purification, eventually “no being will remain outside the number of the saved”[44] and that “no being created by God will fall outside the Kingdom of God”.[45] Due to the unity of human nature in Christ “all, thanks to the union with one another, will be joined in communion with the Good, in Jesus Christ Our Lord”.[46] By his incarnation, death and resurrection Christ achieves “the common salvation of human nature”.
…
Gregory also described God’s work this way: “His [God’s] end is one, and one only; it is this: when the complete whole of our race shall have been perfected from the first man to the last—some having at once in this life been cleansed from evil, others having afterwards in the necessary periods been healed by the Fire, others having in their life here been unconscious equally of good and of evil—to offer to every one of us participation in the blessings which are in Him, which, the Scripture tells us, ‘eye hath not seen, nor ear heard,’ nor thought ever reached.”
…
In the Life of Moses, Gregory writes that just as the darkness left the Egyptians after three days, perhaps redemption [ἀποκατάστασις] will be extended to those suffering in hell [γέεννα].[55] This salvation may not only extend to humans; following Origen, there are passages where he seems to suggest (albeit through the voice of Macrina*) that even the demons will have a place in Christ’s “world of goodness”.[56] Gregory’s interpretations of 1 Corinthians 15:28 (“And when all things shall be subdued unto him …”) and Philippians 2:10 (“That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth”) support this understanding of his theology.
Furthermore, in the next chapter (ch. XXXVI), Gregory says that those who are purified from evil will be admitted into the “heavenly company”.
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_of_Nyssa
*St. Macrina the Blessed was his sister while his brother is more of the famous sibling these days who is non other than St. Basil the Great
Peace to you
Fathers in Christ
Who are mine? (whose writings and teachings have helped me most)
Apostle Paul, St. Irenaeous of Lyons, St. Justin Martyr, St. Clement of Rome, St. Clement of Alexandria, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. John Chrysostom, St. Athanasius the Great … Sadhu Sundar Singh, my parents, some local church leaders in some areas, the late Mr. Gary Amirault* and many more.
*(Gary Amirault – founder of tentmaker.org though now it seems to have been taken over to spread the Preterism agenda instead of the balanced view of Purgatorial Hell Universalism which was in First Christianity as it was done earlier.)
Is following them Bibllical?
Verse in image says yes. Here’s more:
Indeed. Following the right and most orthodox teachers in First Christianity is the way to follow Christ as the Bible teaches that.
Here are the Verses:
i) Following Christ as a Gentile Believer is to obey what apostle Paul taught the Gentile Church
“Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 11:1, KJV)
ii) Apostle Paul instructed that the Context of the Verse in (i) carries on to include to follow after any Christian leader who followed after him.
No sane Christian theologian would dare dispute the orthodoxy of St. Irenaeous of Lyons who was a hearer of the blessed Polycarp who in turn was a disciple of apostle John, the beloved of Christ. So, St. Irenaeous is about three steps away from apostle John himself and is so accurate in Proper Biblical Theology.
Here’s the Bible Verse instructing us to follow such a leader:
“Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.” – apostle Paul (Philippians 3:17, KJV)
iii) Anything apostle Paul wrote (unless he mentions it otherwise) are the “Commands of the Most Blessed Lord” and hence obeying these Verses are equivalent to obeying the Lord Himself.
“If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 14:37, KJV)
“There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD.” (Proverbs 21:30, KJV)
Giving Idea
At some Point in our life, may we give generously as follows:
1) Parents / Family
Give the Highest Percentage of what you have or have been earned through you to them (e. g. 75%) & don’t tell anybody about it (even if they don’t realize it as well).
2) Friends
Give to your friends in need at some point in your life when you’re earning more. Don’t talk about it either.
3) Church and Charity
Give monthly to them in some way at some point in your life especially to the poor.
4) Enemies
Give to your enemies especially if they quote charitable reasons be it if it caused you more than 99% of all you had or even if it put you in debts but don’t repeat it if you found out later that the cause is not legitimate. As long as when you gave, you believed to the best of your knowledge that it was for humanitarian reasons, you get your reward as the case of the poor widow proves in Luke 21:1 – 4 because Christ also pointed out that the Money in the Treasury was “devoured by the Pharisees” (Matthew 23). And yes, don’t tell it out either.
Conclusion
The reward is “treasure in heaven” (Luke 12:33) and keeping the giving a secret (Matthew 6:4) is commanded in the Bible.
The New Covenant Practice is way Greater than any Tithe-practice, to quote:
“… and instead of the law enjoining the giving of TITHES, [He told us] to share all our possessions with the poor; and not to love our neighbours only, but even our enemies; and not merely to be liberal givers and bestowers, but even that we should present a gratuitous gift to those who take away our goods. For “to him that taketh away thy coat,” He says, “give to him thy cloak also; and from him that taketh away thy goods, ask them not again; and as ye would that men should do unto you, do ye unto them: “… ” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book Chapter XIII, Point 3)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
Source Post:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/universal-salvation-and-faith-why-become-a-christian-now-to-be-saved/amp/
Peace to you
Peace to you
Who has the Holy Spirit of God?
The Bible Says this “Test”:
“What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 14:36 – 38, KJV)
Context: No, not what ‘I write’ but ‘what apostle Paul wrote only counts’.
Please ponder these Verses Deeply.
Regarding the Quote in image, yes, Lord Jesus Christ did “Command to Love our enemies” (Luke 6:27) as part of building the House on the Rock (Luke 6:46 – 49, Context of Consecutive Verses in Luke 6 ties up these into the Same Topic).
Always ask:
1) Who was the First Christian that taught or understood a Verse in the same way as you?
2) Next, are there earlier Christian quotes than that which agree or disagree with your view of it? Always quote with source and proof as much as possible and read for yourself these original early Christian writings instead of blindly accepting what others say of it.
3) Choose which First Christianity quote or leader you find teaching the Bible accurately to believe that Verse you quoted in the same way.
4) Remember, Christians have been saved long before the existence of your modern denominations / churches throughout Church History across all denominations. I believe so as God has Mercy on whomever He wills despite our Theological errors (Romans 9 – 11).
Conclusion
The spirit that resists what apostle Paul wrote is not the Holy Spirit of God (1 Corinthians 14:37)
Peace to you
All Men Justified Eventually – St. Clement of Rome
1) His Universal Prayer to God
“[Grant unto us, Lord,] that we may set our hope on Thy Name which is the primal source of all creation, and open the eyes of our hearts,
that we may know Thee, who alone abidest Highest in the lofty, Holy in the holy; who layest low in the insolence of the proud, who settest the lowly on high, and bringest the lofty low; who makest rich and makest poor; who killest and makest alive; who alone art the Benefactor of spirits and the God of all flesh; who
lookest into the abysses, who scanest the works of man; the Succor of them that are in peril, the Savior of them that are in despair; The Creator and Overseer of every spirit; who multipliest the nations upon earth, and hast chosen out from all men those that
love Thee through Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, through whom Thou didst instruct us, didst sanctify us, didst honor us.” – St. Clement of Rome ( c. 35 AD – c. 99 AD , 1 Clement 59:3)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/1clement-lightfoot.html
2) All Men will be Justified by the Faith of Lord Jesus Christ eventually
Where did St. Clement of Rome Prophesy or Reveal that God in Christ will “Justify All Men” eventually by “Faith*” (i. e. the ‘Faith of Jesus Christ’ or ‘Faith of God’ as apostle Paul mentioned)?
“And so we, having been called through His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves* or through our own wisdom or
understanding or piety or works which we wrought in holiness of heart, but through faith, whereby the Almighty God justified all men**
that have been from the beginning; to whom be the glory for ever and ever. Amen.” – St. Clement of Rome (c. 35 AD – c. 99 AD, 1 Clement 32:4)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/1clement-lightfoot.html
For God, the Work of Justification is Completed Timelessly in Christ. It’s just being testified or becomes a reality unfolding to each at the Plural-Divinely-appointed-Kairois Times for His “Ransom for All” (1 Timothy 2:6).
“who did give himself a ransom for all — the testimony in its own times –” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 2:6, YLT)
Further Detailed Discussion regarding this may be seen in Post below for edification:
Please note that the word “we” refers to “Christians or believers” while “all men” refers to ‘all mankind collectively’ as per the Context found likewise in 1 Timothy 4:10 too, below:
“For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 4:10, KJV)
*(not our faith, i. e. ‘not the faith of ourselves’ but by the ‘Faith of Lord Jesus Christ’, please see links below to understand how popular theology is inaccurate about this according to what is actually Written in Holy Scripture – those who believe in Christ now are the First to be Justified by His Perfect Faith & Receive the ‘First Highest Resurrection linked to Participating in the Divinity of Christ Shared to us’, a hope which is not available to any of the rest of the dead, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18).
**The Equation for Romans 5:18 – 19 as it is Written is this, to quote:
Adam + The Many = All Men
To Quote:
Please also note these two verses below speaking this SAME BIBLICAL TRUTH:
“So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to ALL MEN, even so through One Act of Righteousness there Resulted Justification of LIFE to ALL MEN.” (Romans 5:18, NASB)
“For as through the one man’s disobedience THE MANY were made SINNERS, even so through the Obedience of the One THE MANY will be made RIGHTEOUS.” (Romans 5:19, NASB)
The SAME ALL MEN mentioned to be condemned is the SAME ALL MEN mentioned to be eventually Justified to LIFE in Romans 5:18 without any ‘strange manipulations or explanations’.
Similarly, the SAME THE MANY which were made SINNERS is the SAME THE MANY mentioned to be MADE RIGHTEOUS eventually in Romans 5:19 agreeing to all these. The MANY is mentioned here in this verse since ALL MEN were made SINNERS through ADAM (where ADAM + THE MANY = ALL MEN who were made SINNERS).
In fact, ALL MEN condemned is mentioned in Romans 5:18 because it includes ADAM + the REST of MANKIND (the MANY). Lord Jesus Christ is OUT OF THIS EQUATION simply because HE did NOT SIN and is NOT condemned by ADAM’s sin but rather He is mentioned DISTINCTLY as the ONE through WHOM this JUSTIFICATION of LIFE and being MADE RIGHTEOUS will Happen toward ALL MEN (that is, ADAM + the MANY, where THE MANY = the REST of MANKIND excluding ADAM).
In Greek it is ‘the many’ and ‘not many’ which is mentioned in Romans 5:19 meaning that a particular ‘the many’ is referred to here namely that ‘the many’ that were made ‘sinners through Adam’ which is ‘the rest of mankind excluding Adam’, that is:
THE MANY (in Romans 5:19) = ‘the rest of mankind excluding Adam only’
ADAM is singled out since he is the CAUSE of the FALL from whom the CONDEMNATION and SIN is passed on. THE MANY is separately mentioned as part of the ALL MEN as the rest of MANKIND gets imputed with this sin/condemnation automatically as is the JUSTIFICATION of LIFE and the being MADE RIGHTEOUS in CHRIST is also PROMISED to be AUTOMATIC eventually when His Ransom applies in its OWN TIMES being a Testimony (or comes to pass, as 1 Timothy 2:6 reveals).
Source Post:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/wicked-does-lord-jesus-christ-bring-hope-to-the-goats-too/amp/
Faith of Jesus Christ, Posts for further edification:
1. Faith of Jesus Christ
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/faith-jesus-christ-2/amp/
2. Mystery of the Faith OF Jesus Christ for Salvation
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/mystery-faith-jesus-christ-salvation/amp/
3. Faith in Jesus Christ
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/faith-jesus-christ/amp/
4. Lost Truths IN the Faith OF Jesus Christ
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lost-truths-faith-jesus-christ/amp/
5. Faith vs Works – Is Justification through His Faith alone?
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/justification-faith-alone/amp/
P/S: Who is St. Clement of Rome?
To quote:
Origen of Alexandria (AD 185—284) and Eusebius of Caesarea (AD 260—340) maintained that Clement of Rome was the same Clement mentioned by the apostle Paul in Philippians 4:3, although their claims cannot be positively confirmed. Persuasive evidence does exist that Clement had personal contact with Simon Peter and studied under the apostles. Irenaeus of Lyons (AD 130—200) informs us that “this man [Clement of Rome], as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes” (Against Heresies 3:3).
Source:
www.gotquestions.org/amp/Clement-of-Rome.html
Peace to you
Apostle Paul – The Apostle who Forgot to Receive
He was one of the Greatest Giver Ever.
He was a Beautiful Candle of Christ for the Benefit of Others.
Verses:
“For I will shew him [apostle Paul] how great things he must suffer for My Name’s sake.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Acts of the Apostles 9:16, KJV)
“Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.” – apostle Paul (2 Corinthians 11:23, KJV)
“For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 4:9, KJV)
I have the highest respect for apostle Paul because he preached providence and blessings for others while he suffered poverty and hardships on account of others till he died majestically for Lord Jesus Christ. You can feel the awe and respect even in the early church father’s writings whenever they mention the blessed Paul, the Apostle of Christ to the Gentiles.
Apostle Paul is one of the rarest kind of a person where he accepted Christ to “suffer for Good” instead of “Coming to Christ for Prosperity and easy life” though he could as per the Verse below:
“Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void… What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 9:14, 15, 18, KJV)
“If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 9:11 – 12, KJV)
Apostle Paul would take money to give to others but never to use it for himself, Verses:
“I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.” – apostle Paul (2 Corinthians 11:8, KJV)
“I have coveted no man’s silver, or gold, or apparel. Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how He said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.” – apostle Paul (Acts of the Apostles 20:33 – 35, KJV)
Nothing short of Legendary. Lord Jesus Christ’s Love Lives in Apostle Paul.
‘A Receiver seeks prosperity from the Gospel while a Giver seeks to Suffer for the Gospel to Benefit others’ – Anonymous
Peace to you
St. Clement of Alexandria – Ancient Apostolic Seed
He is a Christian Universalist (and a Greek father of the Church), to quote:
“… Clement then digresses to the subject of sin and hell, arguing that Adam was not perfect when created, but given the potential to achieve perfection. He espouses broadly universalist doctrine, holding that Christ’s promise of salvation is available to all, even those condemned to hell* …”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_of_Alexandria
*The spiritual visions of the late Sadhu Sundar Singh agrees perfectly to St. Clement of Alexandria’s exposition on this with Holy Scripture as I have discussed it to some extent in many of my previous posts on our website www.AnonymousChristian.org.
St. Clement of Alexandria is certainly one of the best saints ever. Eusebius (a. k. a. ‘father of church history’) records clearly that this Christ Centered Universalism believer, St. Clement of Alexandria to be deposited Great Spiritual Knowledge through a lineage of Apostolic Authority that is Ancient, or in his words “Ancient Apostolic Seed”, to quote:
Chapter XI.—Clement of Alexandria.
1. At this time Clement,1516 being trained with him1517 in the divine Scriptures at Alexandria, became well known. He had the same name as the one who anciently was at the head of the Roman church, and who was a disciple of the apostles.1518
2. In his Hypotyposes1519 he speaks of Pantænus by name as his teacher. It seems to me that he alludes to the same person also in the first book of his Stromata, when, referring to the more conspicuous of the successors of the apostles whom he had met,1520 he says:1521
3. “This work1522 is not a writing artfully constructed for display; but my notes are stored up for old age, as a remedy against forgetfulness; an image without art, and a rough sketch of those powerful and animated words which it was my privilege to hear, as well as of blessed and truly remarkable men.
4. Of these the one—the Ionian1523—was in
226 Greece, the other in Magna Græcia;1524 the one of them was from Cœle-Syria,1525 the other from Egypt. There were others in the East, one of them an Assyrian,1526 the other a Hebrew in Palestine.1527 But when I met with the last,1528—in ability truly he was first,—having hunted him out in his concealment in Egypt, I found rest.
5. These men, preserving the true tradition of the blessed doctrine, directly from the holy apostles, Peter and James and John and Paul, the son receiving it from the father (but few were like the fathers), have come by God’s will even to us to deposit those ancestral and apostolic seeds.”
Source:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf201.iii.x.xii.html
P/S: How Orthodox or Approved he is in Christianity till today?
To quote:
“… Clement is usually regarded as a Church Father. He is venerated as a saint in Coptic Christianity, Eastern Catholicism, Ethiopian Christianity and Anglicanism. He was previously revered in Western Catholicism, but his name was removed from the Roman Martyrology in 1586 by Pope Sixtus V on the advice of Baronius…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_of_Alexandria
Please read the last line again as to ‘when’ his opponents even ‘dared’ to remove his name which is in “1586”. The biasedness and how the shift in theology toward eternal hell or other equivalent points should be the main reason why. Can you see ‘how late this occurred’? I rest my case.
Peace to you
Fullness of the Great Commision
Question 1
‘God did not ask us to follow Him is not a right statement’
Reply 1
Nobody said that.
God told us to follow Him and also commanded us to follow the apostle of the Gentile as Christ didn’t give all commands in the Gospel while some commands were only for the Jews in the Gospel.
So he appointed apostle Paul as apostle of the Gentiles and those who followed him rightly in the same pattern as the Verses quoted prior prove (1 Corinthians 11:1, 1 Corinthians 4:15 – 17, Philippians 3:17, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 – 15) .
What is not Right is following Verses wrongly by quoting against apostle Paul or simply following or quoting Christ’s Words in the Gospels without understanding the Jewish Context or when the Torah was in force & especially which parts doesn’t apply to the Gentile etc. (which we only know by Christ’s later Revelations through the apostles and not directly by His Commands in the Gospel – Example: Acts 15).
Question 2
Matthew 4:19 “come and follow Me”
Reply 2
Exactly. Following Christ means obeying 1 Corinthians 11:1 to follow after apostle Paul as the apostle of the Gentiles.
In the Great Commision Verse, those who follow Christ are Commanded to obey what He taught through the apostles as the phrase “teaching them to observe all that I commanded you” in Verse below means:
“teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 28:20, KJV)
Please note carefully that we are not following Apostle Paul but Lord Jesus Christ Who gave these commands as the Verse below also reveals this same meaning:
“If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 14:37, NASB)
To ignore this is to not follow Christ but our own understanding and not fully fulfilling the Great Commision Command in the aspect highlighted below:
“teaching them to observe all that I commanded you*” (Matthew 28:20) = “the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment” (1 Corinthians 14:37).
To not follow these Verses and commands is to not follow Christ on these aspects as it is Written.
*you = only the Apostles (Context). It does not refer to you and I nor any saints nor any pastors but only ‘what the Blessed Lord Commanded through His Apostles only’. Example: when I quote an early First Christianity Saint, I usually check for his known orthodoxy as it is recorded in church history where he received that interpretation of a Verse or Teaching through direct contact with the apostles or those who knew the apostles directly.
Obeying these Commands does not Save anyone (you may not lose your salvation unless it’s a serious backsliding) because Christ Saves whomever He wills by His Mercy and Act Alone. However, Obeying more commands leads to greater rewards in the heavens as per the Verse below & vice versa:
“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:19, KJV)
I repeat, always ask: ‘Who is the First known Orthodox Christian from Church History who believed the same as you regarding a doctrine or interpretation of a Verse?’
Ignoring the above may be equivalent to forfeiting the Great Commision part in this aspect. God can overlook if He wishes but why do contrarily?
Conclusion – God Chose not to Reveal Everything in writing in the Bible
Yes. The Verse below proves that some Gospel Truths were handed down “Verbally only” (‘word of mouth’) and we learn it from those who were in direct contact with the apostles or with their direct presbyters:
“Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. ” – apostle Paul (2 Thessalonians 2:14 – 15, NASB)
Yes, the Bible ‘praises’ those who teach & keep the ‘traditions’ according to what apostle Paul delivered and not those who teach contrarily or change it:
“Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.” – apostle Paul 1 Corinthians 11:2, NASB)
Apostle Paul taught these ‘same doctrines and commands of the blessed Lord’ to ‘all Gentile Churches and not the Corinthian-Church-only-lie’, “Verses-Proof”:
“For this reason I have sent to you Timothy, who is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, and he will remind you of my ways which are in Christ, just as I teach everywhere in every church.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 4:17, NASB)
“for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 14:33, NASB)
Yes, ‘no other opposite practices against what is Written through apostle Paul’ (1 Corinthians 14:37, Core Context: Referring to each and every command of the Blessed Savior from 1 Corinthians chapter 11 to 14):
“But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 11:16, NASB)
P/S: An Example of Tradition vs False Tradition
Note: Please realize that none of the First Orthodox Church Fathers (e. g. St. Justin Martyr, St. Irenaeous of Lyons, St. Clement of Alexandria did any Prayer to Mary nor Prayer to the Saints doctrines – I have discussed this in a much earlier post, quoted below – I have also included a Catholic claim that they did too in my discussion – please don’t believe me nor the Catholic claim easily but read their own writing directly & it will be obvious who is Speaking the Truth vs who is quoting them falsely):
Veneration of Mary?
Self Contradicting Christianity – Simply Claiming the Saints on their Side
Now, here’s a point to ponder:
‘St. Justin Martyr did not venerate Mary, opps. No such thing exists in his writings.’
What does it mean?
‘It means that ‘your lips honor Christ’ but your life does NOT when you venerate Mary as even Justin did NOT do it.’
Can you see it?
Some claim the saints to teach the things which they may have never taught such as in this case (Justin never wrote on Venerating Mary in any way) or due to ‘bad translations’ such as the word ‘age-during fire’ (e.g. Polycarp used it just as Iraneous or even Clement of Alexandria) which is ‘age -during fire, not eternal as Latin or English translations err/add’.
Can you ‘really’ see it now?
Isn’t it Written in the 10 Commandments (the 3rd Commandment) that thou shall NOT bear a false witness? (e.g. by claiming or implying these saints to teach something which they NEVER taught – Please, let that ‘sink’ in)
P/S 2: This is what Justin Martyr and Iraneous actually wrote regarding Mary:
St. Justin Martyr (d.165), the early Church’s first great apologist, describes Mary as the “obedient virgin” through whom humanity receives its Savior, in contrast to Eve, the “disobedient virgin,” who brings death and disobedience to the human race:
(The Son of God) became man through the Virgin that the disobedience caused by the serpent might be destroyed in the same way in which it had originated. For Eve, while a virgin incorrupt, conceived the word which proceeded from the serpent, and brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary was filled with faith and joy when the Angel Gabriel told her the glad tidings…. And through her was he born…. (3)
St. Irenaeus of Lyon (d.202), great defender of Christian orthodoxy, establishes Mary as the New Eve who participates with Jesus Christ in the work of salvation, becoming through her obedience the “cause of salvation for herself and the whole human race”:
Just as Eve, wife of Adam, yet still a virgin, became by her disobedience the cause of death for herself and the whole human race, so Mary, too, espoused yet a Virgin, became by her obedience the cause of salvation for herself and the whole human race…. And so it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by Mary’s obedience. For what the virgin Eve bound fast by her refusal to believe, this the Virgin Mary unbound by her belief.
Comments:
Can’t you see that it has NOTHING to do with VENERATING Mary but rather each are describing a ‘Theological Point’ and honouring Mary’s Obedience to God (nothing less, nothing more)?
How can you infer from that to ‘build an altar for Mary’ and even say that ‘she receives prayer’ and even acts as a mediator of some sort between you and Christ (which are all NOT Written in the above – Isn’t it obvious?)
‘Your own heroes whom you revere will CONDEMN you for quoting them to teach the things which they NEVER taught in Principle of John 5:45′.
“Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:45, NASB)
P/S 3: Here’s an example of the ‘other side of the coin’ where using these ‘same quotes’, the writer ‘claims’ that both Justin Martyr and Iraneous ‘venerated Mary’.
http://www.piercedhearts.org/hearts_jesus_mary/heart_mary/mary_early_church_miravalle.htm
Decide for yourselves which is based on ‘what they wrote only’.
Peace to you
All Christians or All Men or All Creation in John 12:32 – Dilemma?
Question
In context, Jesus will draw all judgement to Himself. See previous verses. People or men was added by translators. Not in original Greek.
Reply
To quote (from a previous write up quoting St. Irenaeous quoting John 12:32’s ‘Draw All things to Himself’ – Context), please consider ‘Carefully’ as ‘it is Written’:
Please consider this Biblical Context as follows as a Theologian Lion in First Christianity explains so simply:
“… Jesus Christ our Lord, who did also suffer for us, and rose again on our behalf, and who will come again in the glory of His Father, to raise up all flesh, and for the manifestation of salvation, and to apply the rule of just judgment to all who were made by Him. There is therefore, as I have pointed out, one God the Father, and one Christ Jesus, who came by means of the whole dispensational arrangements [connected with Him], and gathered together all things in Himself. But in every respect, too, He is man, the formation of God; and thus He took up man into Himself, the invisible becoming visible, the incomprehensible being made comprehensible, the impassible becoming capable of suffering, and the Word being made man, thus summing up all things in Himself: so that as in super-celestial, spiritual, and invisible things, the Word of God is supreme, so also in things visible and corporeal He might possess the supremacy, and, taking to Himself the pre-eminence, as well as constituting Himself Head of the Church, He might draw all things to Himself [John 12:32] at the proper time.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XVI, Point 6, Book III)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
Please note the ‘order of time’ in St. Irenaeous Writing above as follows (in Proper Context):
Final Judgment (including the Resurrection of Judgment, John 5:29, Daniel 12:2 for the Wicked in Gehenna or the Lake of Fire context, Matthew 10:28, Revelation 20:11 – 15)
“to raise up all flesh, and for the manifestation of salvation, and to apply the rule of just judgment to all who were made by Him” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons
Gathering of All [Created] things after that (Ephesians 1:9 – 11, Colossians 1:16, 20)
“Christ Jesus, who came by means of the whole dispensational arrangements [connected with Him], and gathered together all things in Himself.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons
He Sums Up All Created things and not just His Church (Christians) back to Himself – Recapitulation Doctrine
“thus summing up all things in Himself: so that as in super-celestial, spiritual, and invisible things, the Word of God is supreme, so also in things visible and corporeal He might possess the supremacy, and, taking to Himself the pre-eminence, as well as constituting Himself Head of the Church, He might draw all things to Himself at the proper time.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons
Universal Reconciliation of “All [Created] things” (Colossians 1:16, 20, Ephesians 1:9 – 11) to be ‘free from sin/decay’ (Romans 8:21 – 22) has not happened yet (Hebrews 2:8) but will happen eventually in its own proper Divine Kairois-plural Times (1 Timothy 2:6, 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28).
“Himself Head of the Church, He might draw all things to Himself at the proper time.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons
Please note that the ‘Draw all things’ which St. Irenaeous quotes in John 12:32’s Context refers to ‘ALL CREATED THINGS’ and ‘not Christians only’ (Calvinism/Augustinism) nor ‘Humans only’ (limited Universalism) as St. Irenaeous defines this Apostolic Orthodox Definition in the above for the ‘All things’ in the ‘Draw All Things’ (John 12:32’s Context) to refer to (in his own words as): “… the Word being made man, thus summing up all things in Himself: so that as in super-celestial, spiritual, and invisible things, the Word of God is supreme, so also in things visible and corporeal He might possess the supremacy,…”.
When we read the above not following the ‘order of time’ (Context) as St. Irenaeous points out above in his own words, we miss the meaning likewise too.
Let’s not worry as all heretics too will eventually confess Allegiance to God eventually as Holy Scripture Promised as St. Irenaeous mentions below too [implied in its own times]:
“… Holding, therefore, this rule, we shall easily show, notwithstanding the great variety and multitude of their opinions, that these men have deviated from the truth; for almost all the different sects of heretics admit that there is one God; but then, by their pernicious doctrines, they change [this truth into error], even as the Gentiles do through idolatry,-thus proving themselves ungrateful to Him that created them. Moreover, they despise the workmanship of God, speaking against their own salvation, becoming their own bitterest accusers, and being false witnesses [against themselves]. Yet, reluctant as they may be, these men shall one day rise again in the flesh, to confess the power of Him who raises them from the dead; but they shall not be numbered among the righteous on account of their unbelief.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XXII, Point 1, Book I)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html
Please note carefully that the phrase “but they shall not be numbered among the righteous on account of their unbelief” by St. Irenaeous speaks of a post Final Judgment Confessing of Allegiance to God in his prior phrase “Yet, reluctant as they may be, these men shall one day rise again in the flesh, to confess the power of Him who raises them from the dead.”
Indeed, as pointed in a previous post (link below), the formerly-wicked may be saved in their spirit existence only (no soul, no body, 1 Corinthians 5:5, 1 Peter 4:6) and hence have not attained the Salvation in the Flesh for ‘two ages’ (this age AEON1 and next age, AEON2) respectively. Link:
Hell Forever? – Salvation of spirit from Hell too – Facts from First Christianity
Yes, the “not be numbered among the righteous on account of their unbelief” clearly refers to ‘their missing out on being in flesh’ during the ‘next age only’ as St. Irenaeous explains his own belief, to quote from the ‘Lost Orthodoxy’ Book:
Are UNBELIEVERS are cast off to the next AGE or AEON only, AGE2 (agreeing say to Matthew 12:32) and ‘not forever’?
Here’s a DIRECT answer to this question which proves (yet again) that the “Lake of Fire or Gehenna” Judgments (Revelation 20:11 – 15) toward “unbelieving men too” (Revelation 21:8) are to the “next (future) singular-age ONLY, Biblically in say Matthew 25:41 or Matthew 25:46 and NOT Forever as so popularly erred”.
Who says so?
The REAL Authority of Doctrine & Biblical Koine Greek itself, ‘a king of True Christian Theology’, St. Irenaeous of Lyons himself in the following ‘in his own words’ (“irrefutable”):
Please consider:
“… For Paul does not say, “the God of this world,” as if recognising any other beyond Him; but he confessed God as indeed God. And he says, “the unbelievers of this world,” because they shall not inherit the future age of incorruption …” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 3, Point 1)
I repeat with EMPHASIS for Clarity [in Brackets too, showing the “Original Greek Word: Aeon or “age” occurring in 2 Corinthians 4:4, Matthew 25:46, Matthew 25:41 or even Matthew 12:32]
“… For Paul does not say, “the God of this world [AGE, AEON],” as if recognising any other beyond Him; but he confessed God as indeed God. And he [apostle Paul] says, “the UNBELIEVERS of this world [AGE, AEON],” because they [UNBELIEVERS] shall NOT INHERIT the FUTURE AGE [AEON] of incorruption [SINLESSNESS] …” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 3, Chapter VII, Point 1)
Indeed, in the above it is evident that (in Irenaeous’ OWN WORDS’ that:
the UNBELIEVERS of this world [AGE, AEON, AGE1] —-> because they [UNBELIEVERS] shall NOT INHERIT —–> the FUTURE AGE [AEON, AGE2] of incorruption [SINLESSNESS].
Irenaeous clearly makes a distinction and understands the CURRENT AGE (AEON, AGE1) vs the NEXT AGE (AEON, AGE2) vs the “ages to come” (e. g. Ephesians 2:7, AGE2, AGE3…) as explained in detail in earlier write ups too agreeing to all this.
If he [Irenaeous] understands it thus belonging to the “True Faith”, we shouldn’t understand it differently. Yes, NO adding NOR removing from the Blessed Word of God is seen in his ‘Genius Level Exegesis’ but ONLY EXACTLY stating Holy Scripture as “it is Written”.
Please note carefully this punishment for “unbelievers”, namely that they are cast out for EXACTLY one FUTURE AGE [or next AEON, AGE2] —-> not inheriting the “incorruption” which is being raised in a “sinless resurrection of flesh” proving again irrefutably also that the “resurrection of judgment” toward the ‘wicked’ (in John 5:28 – 29) refers to their ‘identical bodies’ still in “sin” (“corruptible”) and NOT in any form of ‘incorruptibility’ as our dear ‘eternal hell’ theologians err so easily.
Source Post:
Hell Gehenna – Body and Soul Destroyed – Recapitulation Doctrine in First Christianity?
Conclusion – Please allow me to repeat a point from the above as follows:
Please note that the ‘Draw all things’ which St. Irenaeous quotes in John 12:32’s Context refers to ‘ALL CREATED THINGS’ and ‘not Christians only’ (Calvinism/Augustinism) nor ‘Humans only’ (limited Universalism) as St. Irenaeous defines this Apostolic Orthodox Definition in the above for the ‘All things’ in the ‘Draw All Things’ (John 12:32’s Context) to refer to (in his own words as): “… the Word being made man, thus summing up all things in Himself: so that as in super-celestial, spiritual, and invisible things, the Word of God is supreme, so also in things visible and corporeal He might possess the supremacy,…”.
Peace to you
Salvation of the World – Secrets from Christian Mystics
1) God’s Will
“And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.” – apostle John (1 John 4:14, KJV)
2) Accurate Translations – Example the “Verb-Will Have” in Verse below, correctly translated brings out the True Meaning of the Bible Verse
“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 2:4, KJV)
God Will not Fail to Save “All Men” eventually.
3) Sincere Prayer of Salvation for All Men thus makes sense
“I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 2:1, KJV)
4) All Men will be Saved by God (some after Hell or afterlife Judgments) but only believers in faith are more special and share His Divinity as His Bride
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; … This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 4:1, 9 – 11, KJV)
Please note carefully that apostle Paul clearly warns of the Doctrine of Devils and mentions what is not the Doctrine of the Devils which is “God Will Save All Men especially believers” in Verses above asking believers to pray for it too (1 Timothy 2:1, 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 4:10) and Commanded us to Teach it (1 Timothy 4:11) as these Verses from the same letter by the same Author (apostle Paul) Prove (Context) toward the ‘Evangelist Timothy’.
All Men = All Human Beings ever Created by God
Believers = Christians (believers in faith)
May God’s Will be Done. Amen. Maranatha, even so come Lord Jesus Christ, Most Blessed One.
Peace to you
Money Management
John Wesley realized it too, a nice quote in image.
Conclusion
The “Abundant Life” Christ Spoke of is “Spiritual” and has ‘nothing’ to do with money nor wealth nor any material things as ‘no Verses’ in that same chapter (in John 10) itself points to this popular ‘fallacy in the prosperity gospel context’.
Verses:
“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 10:10, NASB)
“… “Beware, and be on your guard against every form of greed; for not even when one has an abundance does his life consist of his possessions.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:15, NASB)
Here’s a Deeper understanding (as per the infamous Methodist Theologian, John Wesley’s quote in image too):
Please be careful of receiving more than what you ought to because it could be that the Devil robs you of your ‘spiritual life’ by giving ‘more money blessings or wealth’. Verses for this ‘rarely recognized but potent weapon of the enemy to keep us spiritually lukewarm’:
“Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; and he said to Him, “All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.” (Matthew 4:8 – 9, NASB)
I repeat,
“… All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.” – Satan (Matthew 4:9, NASB)
Sometimes or a lot of times, ‘earthly abudance & good health is experienced by the wicked’, Verses:
“… As I saw the prosperity of the wicked. For there are no pains in their death, And their body is fat. They are not in trouble as other men, Nor are they plagued like mankind… And waters of abundance are drunk by them… Behold, these are the wicked; And always at ease, they have increased in wealth…” (Psalm 73:3 – 5, 10, 12, NASB)
Their afterlife Judgment is terrifying as hinted in these Verses as their “end”. Please note carefully that this “end” cannot refer to their “earthly lives” because they had even no suffering till death as Verses above prove this Context (e. g. Psalm 73:4). Verses for their “afterlife Judgment” or “end” are:
“When I pondered to understand this, It was troublesome in my sight. Until I came into the sanctuary of God; Then I perceived their end. Surely You set them in slippery places; You cast them down to destruction. How they are destroyed in a moment! They are utterly swept away by sudden terrors!” (Psalm 73:16 – 19, NASB)
Some of the Earliest and Best Saints were poor and there is no shame in being poor likewise either:
“but now, I am going to Jerusalem serving the saints. For Macedonia and Achaia have been pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem.” – apostle Paul (Romans 15:25 – 26, NASB)
In this Context, what matters is to be ‘rich in faith’ and there’s nothing wrong in receiving help if we are poor (as Verses above show that even the best Jerusalem saints were poor & received help):
“Listen, my beloved brethren: did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?” – apostle James (James 2:5, NASB)
A Christian can be Rich in Wealth (provided he obtained it rightly in accordance to God’s Principles) but must be ready to share with the “poor” but if he doesn’t do so, it’s said to be equivalent to have “strayed from the faith”, Verses:
“Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed. O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called “knowledge”— which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith. Grace be with you.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 6:17 – 21, NASB)
‘Whenever we receive money or more than what we deserve, we assume that it is from God. Only the Wise refuse to take more than what is his due knowing that the extras might be the unfair gifts of the Devil which makes you guilty if you heartily receive it’ – Anonymous
“… Either in this life or in the afterlife… ”
“For everyone shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 9:49, KJV)
Peace to you
Hell is not Final – Hope Beyond Hell for the Wicked too?
Yes. Biblically and Orthodoxically, to quote:
Can the Wicked be Converted as Children to be Saved?
Yes, to quote:
Here is a rarely known Secret:
Even the ‘wicked’ (the “enemies”) will one day submit back to God post-afterlife Judgments (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28) and be ‘converted’ like children too as per this Ancient Rarely known Orthodox Quote from a king of Christian Theology:
Here is the Mystery of the Twelve Bells on Christ’s High Priesthood Garment: The Gospel will be Preached throughout the “World” by the “Apostles” literally including the afterlife regions (as the Shepherd of Hermas Scripture – endorsed even by St. Irenaeous of Lyons as Scripture – Quotes above) toward the end that even the “Wicked” becomes like a “child” (Post-Judgment and Gospel acceptance – in the afterlife, – the word being made “Subject” implies this irrefutably in the ‘Context of All His Enemies, e. g. 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28’ too) – Says who?
To quote, another Orthodox First Christianity Quote Revealing this Mystery:
“Moreover, the prescription that twelve bells be attached to the [robe] of the high priest, which hung down to the feet, was a symbol of the twelve apostles, who depend on the power of Christ, the eternal Priest; and through their voice it is that all the earth has been filled with the glory and grace of God and of His Christ. Wherefore David also says: ‘Their sound has gone forth into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.’ … But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child…” – St. Justin Martyr (100 AD – 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho, CHAPTER XLII)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Comment for Edification:
To Quote (in the Context of Christian Theology – I quote Justin Martyr and Clement of Alexandria below):
The following texts refer to Hystaspes and may thus be quoted with confidence as excerpts from the oracles of Hystaspes:
(1) Justin Martyr (ca. 150 C.E.), Apology I, 20, 1 (ed. J. K. Th. von Otto, p. 62; cf. Bidez and Cumont, II, p. 361), Greek: “And both the Sibyl and Hystaspes have said that the extermination of the corrupt will happen by fire.”
(2) Clement of Alexandria (ca. 190 C.E.), Stromata VI, 5, 1 (ed. O. Stählin, p. 453; cf. Bidez and Cumont, II, pp. 362-63), Greek, quoting an apocryphal speech by Paul: “Grasp also the Hellenic books, recognize the Sibyl more perfectly . . . , and grasp and read Hystaspes, and you will find the Son of God described much more distinctly and clearly, and how against Christ many kings will fight, hating him and those who bear his name, and his followers, and the suffering [of Christ] and his coming.”
Source:
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/hystaspes-oracles-of
Sibyline Oracles – as apostle Paul himself told to read this as Clement of Alexandria quotes (‘Verbal Command’ – in Principle of 2 Thessalonians 2:15)
To Quote (Page 276 – 277 from the ‘Lost Orthodoxy’ Book):
Is Clement of Alexandria mentioning a Secret that apostle Paul tried to say in regards to Hystaspes when he writes, ‘quoting an apocryphal speech by Paul’?
Is that why Justin Martyr (knowing this) also quotes Hystaspes in a ‘Universal Salvation’ manner —-> saying, ‘extermination of the corrupt will happen by fire’ —> which refers to the extermination of the ‘corrupt’ (sin & evil) —> as even the SIBYL quoted together in the above obviously taught Universal Salvation (proving this Context Stronger), to quote:
“… for a long day will God make.
And to the pious will the almighty God
405 Imperishable grant another thing,
When they shall ask the imperishable God:
That he will suffer men from raging fire
And endless gnawing anguish to be saved;
And this will he do. For hereafter he
410 Will pluck them from the restless flame, elsewhere
Remove them, and for his own people’s sake
Send them to other and eternal life
With the immortals, in Elysian field,” (Sibyline Oracles, Book II, 297-322, p. 51)
Translation Source:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/sib/sib04.htm
I repeat, with POSSIBLE BIBLE VERSES and emphasis from Page 277 of the ‘Lost Orthodoxy’ Book:
“… for a long day will God make.
And to the pious will the Almighty God
405 Imperishable grant another thing,
When they shall ask the imperishable God:
That He [God] will suffer [SAVE] men from RAGING FIRE
And ENDLESS GNAWING ANGUISH to be SAVED;
And THIS WILL HE [God] DO. For hereafter He [God]
410 Will PLUCK THEM [Wicked] from the RESTLESS FLAME, elsewhere REMOVE THEM [Wicked, the ‘thirsty’ from the ‘Lake of Fire’], and for His own people’s sake [His Bride, Revelation 22:17] Send them to OTHER [Outside Regions of the Kingdom of the Heavens, Matthew 5:19] and eternal [AGE -DURING, Fulfilling John 17:2 toward ALL MEN or ALL FLESH or ALL HUMANITY] life With the Immortals [Revelation 20:4 – 6], in Elysian field,” (Sibyline Oracles, Book II, 297-322, p. 51)
Source Post:
P/S: What does the Mysterious Verse in Revelation 22:17 Imply?
“From the hand of Sheol* I do ransom them, From death I redeem them, Where is thy plague, O death? Where thy destruction, O Sheol? Repentance is hid from Mine Eyes.” – God Speaks (in Hosea 13:14, YLT)
*Sheol in Hebrew = Hades in Greek
Repentance is hid from Mine eyes = God Will NOT Change His Mind from Saving in the afterlife from both SHEOL (HADES) or DEATH as Hosea 13:14 Reveals Majestically even if when these are cast into the LAKE of FIRE for the Final SECOND DEATH (as Revelation 20:14 clearly mentions causing the Mysterious Reconciliation from the Lake of Fire toward these “thirsty ones” as Prophesied Majestically in Revelation 22:17 as well – His Bride and the Spirit calls out to these thirsty ones and only the Lake of Fire makes someone to still be thirsty, right? His Bride or Church, believers are NOT the thirsty ones for we NEVER thirst again after our Resurrection – Isn’t it obvious? Revelation 20:4 – 6, 1 John 4:14, Luke 20:35 – 36).
Source:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/afterlife-salvation-mysteries/amp/
Yes, the True Meaning of 1 Peter 3:18 – 19 is this:
“But how? Do not [the Scriptures] show that. the Lord preached the Gospel to those that perished in the flood, or rather had been chained, and to those kept “in ward and guard”? And it has been shown also, in the second book of the Stromata, that the apostles, following the Lord, preached the Gospel to those in Hades. For it was requisite, in my opinion, that as here, so also there, the best of the disciples should be imitators of the Master; so that He should bring to repentance those belonging to the Hebrews, and they the Gentiles; that is, those who had lived in righteousness according to the Law and Philosophy, who had ended life not perfectly, but sinfully. ” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 6, Chapter VI)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
More Reading regarding the Gospel Preached to the Dead-souls in Hades from First Christianity can be found in links quoted above and in link below too for further edification:
Source Post:
Universal Salvation and Faith – Why become a Christian now to be Saved?
P/S 2: What about those who do not inherit His Kingdom (1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10)?
What is Context or Meaning of “Inherit the Kingdom of God” which is only for the Church, His Bride so that only they are Directly Connected in His Immortality (a Great Mystery) while others are considered Mortal-not sharing His Divinity and thus do not get this Highest Inheritance in His Kingdom (1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10)?
To quote:
“And Justin of Neapolis, a man who was not far separated from the apostles either in age or excellence, says that that which is mortal is inherited, but that which is immortal inherits; and that the flesh indeed dies, but the kingdom of heaven lives.” — From METHODIUS On the Resurrection, in Photius. (Fragment V, St. Justin Martyr’s Lost Writings)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-fragments.html
Note: Justin of Neapolis = St. Justin Martyr
This agrees Perfectly with St. Irenaeous implying this same meaning (and thus the Subjection of All Created things as explained in 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28 being “inherited” thus implies Universal Salvation eventually but only the Church Rules as only “the Church inherits His Kingdom” (1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10) and thus Rules henceforth in His Kingdom), to quote:
” … As, therefore, the bride cannot [be said] to wed, but to be wedded, when the bridegroom comes and takes her, so also the flesh cannot by itself possess the kingdom of God by inheritance; but it can be taken for an inheritance into the kingdom of God. For a living person inherits the goods of the deceased; and it is one thing to inherit, another to be inherited. The former rules, and exercises power over, and orders the things inherited at his will; but the latter things are in a state of subjection, are under order, and are ruled over by him who has obtained the inheritance… ” St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter IX, Point 4 )
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
I’m still awestruck by each quote here by the earliest most orthodox leaders from First Christianity.
Peace to you
Love – How Deep and True is our Love?
Quote in image: Are we able especially if they will hurt you back instead even if you’re intending Good to them?
Our Acts of Good-Love-Giving “as from the Church Offering Collections in the Name of our Blessed God” should reach even our “enemies” if we wish to attain the Greatest Rewards (Matthew 5:19), to quote:
“… and instead of the law enjoining the giving of TITHES, [He told us] to share all our possessions with the poor; and not to love our neighbours only, but even our enemies; and not merely to be liberal givers and bestowers, but even that we should present a gratuitous gift to those who take away our goods. For “to him that taketh away thy coat,” He says, “give to him thy cloak also; and from him that taketh away thy goods, ask them not again; and as ye would that men should do unto you, do ye unto them: “… ” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book Chapter XIII, Point 3)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
Only our Blessed Savior Does this Perfectly:
“But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated Me without a cause.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 15:25, KJV)
If we are hated while we hate, exclude and discriminate others too, it does not count.
Please read the quoted Verses by St. Irenaeous as Spoken by our Most Blessed Lord and let us realize that being ‘excluded, discriminated against and hated/used’ only counts if we are ‘including, treating them fairly and Loving/Serving them instead’ & vice versa.
“Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of Man’s sake“ … But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, … “Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back… Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. … “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you?” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:22-KJV, 27, 30, 31, 32, NASB, Context of Consecutive Verses from this same Topic/Chapter)
Peace to you
Perfection of God – Salvation of All Creation
John 5:22, John 8:15, Luke 23:34, John 12:47 and He Allows the Judgment-part as our choice (the ‘other in John 12:48’) as we decide (John 20:23) and angels decide (Hebrews 2:2) till we forgive too like Him eventually calling the “thirsty-wicked” back from the Lake of Fire too as this is Prophesied to be Done by “His Bride” (Perfected, Christians, His Church) together with Him in the End (Revelation 22:17) as Prophesied also by the Christian-Sibyline Oracles, Apocalypse of Peter, Apocalypse of Elijah and even some ancient variant manuscripts.
Reconciliation from the Lake of Fire (Colossians 1:20) toward ‘All Created things’ (Colossians 1:16) too in the end (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28, 1 Timothy 2:6):
“And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.” – apostle John (Revelations 22:17, NKJV)
where
The Spirit = God
The Bride = Christians
“who thirsts” = anyone who is not yet reconciled to God (e. g. Those in the Lake of Fire, as Fire makes them thirsty)
Free = Free Justification eventually toward “All” as Promised in Holy Scripture by the “Faith of Jesus Christ” (Romans 3:22) or the ‘Faith of God’ (Romans 3:3) which never Fails (seen only in accurate word to word translations, Romans 3:4), for example, to quote :
(vi) Where is it written that we are “Justified” unto “Salvation” through the “Righteousness of God” through the “Faith OF Jesus Christ” only and that it applies to “All” and not just believers only?
“Even the Righteousness of God which is by Faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference” – apostle Paul (Romans 3:22, KJV)
Please notice carefully:
i. “Faith of Jesus Christ unto all” (Romans 3:22) = Universal Salvation and Making of All Created things New is Promised (Revelation 21:5)
ii. “and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference” (Romans 3:22) = No Distinction in Believers primarily in the Context of Being His Bride Participating in the Highest First Resurrection – the only Resurrection sharing His Divinity (Revelation 20:4 – 6, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18, Galatians 3:26 – 29, Luke 20:35 – 36).
“For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in Thy Sayings, and mightest overcome when Thou art judged.” – apostle Paul (Romans 3:3 – 4, KJV)
But the “acts” referred to in these verses in these “times” is “only by God Alone” (not creation’s will, nor free will is referred to here in these verses quoted). It can be understood as follows too:
“God Works” (or Acts, His Acts alone) not through the sinful acts done by the ‘all things’ (all creation) —> but rather, “despite” the ‘sinful’ acts done by the all creation (including the ‘sin not leading to death’) —-> God still works out His Will Unaffected (Romans 3:3 – 4) by the Faith of God (Faith of Jesus Christ, Romans 3:22) to bring ‘Salvation or Justification for All’ —> through His Acts Alone as Ephesians 1:8 – 11 implies toward the ‘all things too’ —> to gather them all in Christ in the end.
In short, it explains ‘how’ God’s Will will be Done Regardless by the Faith of Jesus Christ (Romans 3:3-4, 22, 28) through His Acts alone “despite” (not through, nor using) creation’s servitude of vanity (sin, missing the mark, corruption, Romans 8:20 – 21) setting it ‘free’ (into liberty) of the ‘children of God again’ walking in God’s Will alone perfectly in the end (1 Corinthians 15:25 – 28) when the verses are ‘seen together’ (called the ‘Mystery or Secret of His Will’ in Ephesians 1:8 – 11).
Source Post:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/mystery-faith-jesus-christ-salvation/amp/
Peace to you
Ransom for All – All Men or All Believers only?
The Verse in image seems to point in context that Lord Jesus Christ’s Ransom for All certainly includes all men.
Here’s a First Christianity Rarely known Orthodox Quote uttered by an ‘eternal Hell believing theologian’ who may actually be ‘quoting what the ancient and most orthodox Christians before him believed in regards to this context’:
“… after the witness of Gabriel, after her secret knowledge of the divine conception, after the great exhibition of miracles, she shall feel about her soul a mighty tempest. The Lord was bound to taste of death for every man — to become a propitiation for the world and to justify all men by His own blood. Even thou thyself, who hast been taught from on high the
things concerning the Lord, shalt be reached by some doubt. This is the sword. “That the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.” …” – St. Basil the Great (c. 329 AD – c. 379 AD, Letter CCLLX, Point 671 – Point 672)
Source:
https://archive.org/stream/St.BasilLettersAndSelectedWorks/St_basil_lettersAndSelected_works_djvu.txt
If you read the ancient Christianity quote which St. Basil the Great quotes above, it is clear that Lord Jesus Christ’s ‘Ransom for All’ (1 Timothy 2:5 – 6) applies to “All Men in its own Divine-Kairois Times’ (as it is Written in 1 Timothy 2:6) which must mean ‘all human being ever created eventually’ simply because these ancient phrases “… The Lord was bound to taste of death for every man …” and ” …. — to become a propitiation for the world …” and “… to justify all men by His own blood…” means exactly that, right?
Please take note that St. Basil the Great may be reiterating a Well known orthodox phraseology in his writing above which proves that Lord Jesus Christ’s Ransom applies to All Men and not Just believers (as it is implied in 1 Timothy 4:10 too) but though he didn’t believe it, it is well known that his sister (St. Macrina the Blessed-Wonder Worker*) and his brother St. Gregory of Nyssa who must have known this phraseology too certainly understood this same phraseology as Christ Centered Universalism as they are known to have believed that as shown a little in my previous posts.
*Miracles has happened by God Healing through St. Macrina as utterred by St. Gregory of Nyssa himself, to quote (as some accuse those who believe in Christ Centered Universalism** to not have had experienced miracles which is false as shown by this example, based on Mark 16:15 – 18):
“… St. Marina the Younger … monastic founder, miracle worker and philosopher… Gregory heard her last philosophical discourse on a visit he made to his sister at the end of her life. (“I kept wishing that the day could be lengthened so that she might not cease to delight our hearing,” he wrote.) …
He was with the many women at Macrina’s bedside when she died in 379. News of her death “spread like wildfire,” and crowds of people poured in for the funeral procession, many telling Gregory about miracles “the great Macrina” had performed while she was alive …”
Source:
http://natcath.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2007d/122107/122107y.htm
**Did St. Macrina the Younger really believe in Christ Centered Universalism including the Redemption of the Devils? Yes, according to St. Gregory of Nyssa himself (her brother), to quote:
i. St Macrina the Younger – “The Word seems to me to lay down the doctrine of the perfect obliteration of wickedness, for if God shall be in all things that are, obviously wickedness shall not be in them. For it is necessary that at some time evil should be removed utterly and entirely from the realm of being.”
ii. St Gregory of Nyssa – “For it is evident that God will in truth be all in all when there shall be no evil in existence, when every created being is at harmony with itself and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, when every creature shall have been made one body.” He also says elsewhere, “Wherefore, that at the same time liberty of free-will should be left to nature and yet the evil be purged away, the wisdom of God discovered this plan; to suffer man to do what he would, that having tasted the evil which he desired, and learning by experience for what wretchedness he had bartered away the blessings he had, he might of his own will hasten back with desire to the first blessedness …either being purged in this life through prayer and discipline, or after his departure hence through the furnace of cleansing fire.”
Source:
Please note that St. Basil the Great may be quoting some ‘Ancient Orthodox First Christianity View of Christ’s Ransom for All’ in the above though he himself may have believed differently or understood the phrase ‘all men’ in the above differently. Apparently, he has also quoted this:
“St. Basil the Great (c. 329-379) in his De Asceticis wrote: “The mass of men (Christians) say that there is to be an end of punishment to those who are punished.” I point out that he is not classified as a Universalist.”
Source:
https://forum.evangelicaluniversalist.com/t/was-universalism-a-major-view-of-the-early-church/2111
P/S: These Universalism Writings regarding St. Macrina is True
Scholars only argue whether which
blood-sibling of hers, i. e. St. Basil the Great (‘Doctor of the Church’) or herself is referred to as the ‘Teacher teaching Universalism’ as it is Written by St. Gregory of Nyssa (remember the only ‘father of fathers’ title ever awarded by the Orthodox Ecumenical Council?) is referred to in that part of her biography?
To quote:
“Macrina’s mother Emmelia died in about 373 and Basil the Great in 379. Soon after, her brother Gregory visited her one last time, and she died shortly after.
Another of her brothers, Basil the Great, is credited as a founder of monasticism in the East, and modeled his community of monks after the community founded by Macrina.
Her brother, Gregory of Nyssa, wrote her biography (hagiography). He also wrote “On the Soul and Resurrection.” The latter represents a dialogue between Gregory and Macrina as he made his last visit to her and she was dying. Macrina, in the dialogue, is represented as a teacher describing her views on heaven and salvation. Later Universalists pointed to this essay where she asserts that all will ultimately be saved (“universal restoration”).
Later church scholars have sometimes rejected that the Teacher in Gregory’s dialogue is Macrina, though Gregory clearly states that in the work. They claim that it must have been St. Basil instead, apparently on no other grounds than disbelief that it could have referred to a woman.”
Source:
https://www.thoughtco.com/macrina-the-elder-and-younger-4025154
Peace to you
Forgotten Orthodoxy of the Seven Candlestick Church of Lord Jesus Christ
All Glory to God – Christ Saves All Men Eventually.
To quote from St. Ignatius of Antioch, the Scripture of the Shepherd of Hermas, St. Clement of Rome, St. Theophilus of Antioch and even from St. Irenaeous of Lyons, please consider these rarely known/preached Truths from First Christianity:
Continue to Pray for the HOPE of REPENTANCE toward the Rest of Mankind who are not now part of the Church
“10:1 And pray ye also without ceasing for the rest of mankind (for there is in them a hope of repentance), that they may find God. Therefore permit them to take lessons at least from your works.” – St. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 50 AD – c. 140 AD, Ignatius to the Ephesians)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-ephesians-lightfoot.html
The quote above may be argued that it refers to the chance to repent now on earth. I think it includes that but more so toward a Hope in the Afterlife too.
Why?
Simply because, St. Ignatius obviously knows that the number of Elect or His Church is Predestined by Christ. He also knows that the ‘rest of mankind’ (context: NOT part of His Elect, i.e. NOT His Predestined Church) can never ‘choose Christ’ or ‘be the elect’. Hence, this ‘chance of being an elect’ cannot be the Hope of Repentance on earth which St. Ignatius points too as it contradicts many verses in Principle.
So, which Hope of Repentance is it then?
Hence, when he mentions this “Hope of Repentance” toward the “Rest of Mankind” (which are NOT part of His Church, Context), it is a stronger suggestion that this HOPE refers to AFTERLIFE REPENTANCE in some way for which the ELECT (His CHURCH) ought to PRAY (1 Timothy 2:1) so that ALL MEN prayed for (1 Timothy 2:1) may REPENT (1 Timothy 2:4) and be SAVED eventually(1 Timothy 4:10) in his own order (1 Corinthians 15:23) of TIMES (1 Timothy 2:6).
.
.
.
Afterlife Repentance – the Wicked
Is Afterlife Repentance possible for ALL THESE REJECTED STONES post afterlife Judgment?
Yes. To quote [all these quotes are from the Scripture of the ‘Shepherd of Hermas’ Writing unless stated otherwise – please take note ‘carefully’]:
7[15]:5 Still importunate, I asked her further, whether for ALL THESE STONES that were REJECTED and would not fit into the building of the TOWER that was REPENTANCE, and they had a place in this tower. “THEY CAN REPENT” she said, “but they CANNOT be fitted into THIS TOWER.
7[15]:6 Yet THEY shall be fitted into ANOTHER PLACE much more humble, but not until they have UNDERGONE TORMENTS and have FULFILLED THE DAYS OF THEIR SINS. And they shall be changed for this reason, because they participated in the Righteous Word; and then shall it befall them to be relieved from their torments, if the evil deeds, that they have done, come into their heart; but if these come not into their heart, they are not saved by reason of the hardness of their hearts.”
*Please note that I have quoted these Shepherd of Hermas Verses in ‘Consecutive Order’ (Context) regarding the ‘Rejected Stones’ being offered ‘Afterlife Repentance’ thereafter but only after they ‘endure the torment of their Judgment first accordingly’ as you may read for yourself in the translation source quoted below.
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd-lightfoot.html
We know from Scripture (below) that these ‘rejected stones’ must refer to the ‘fallen believers and/or wicked’ as their ‘punishment sentences are the same during the Final Judgment’ (Verses below) implying that the Hope of Repentance above applies to them (Context – Matthew 5:23 – 26, Luke 12:57 – 59 too):
“the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. ” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:46 – 48, NASB)
Afterlife Judgment must be endured first (Hades now or some till the Lake of Fire later) before they repent
Focus Phrase: “… but not until they have UNDERGONE TORMENTS and have FULFILLED THE DAYS OF THEIR SINS…”
Afterlife Repentance is Given to them but only after they endure afterlife Judgment till the last penny (Matthew 5:23 – 26, Luke 12:57 – 59)
Focus Phrase: “… “THEY CAN REPENT” she said, “but they CANNOT be fitted into THIS TOWER. Yet THEY shall be fitted into ANOTHER PLACE much more humble …”
The Context of the Above is Afterlife Repentance simply because if it refers to ‘earthly repentance’, then they would be part of the Church (Sheepfold1) too meaning that they are part of this ‘Tower of Repentance’ which CONTRADICTS the phrases: “… ALL THESE STONES that were REJECTED and would not fit into the building of the TOWER that was REPENTANCE …” and “… but they CANNOT be fitted into THIS TOWER. Yet THEY shall be fitted into ANOTHER PLACE much more humble…”.
Can you see it?
It’s not just Purgatory per say because these REJECTED stones Includes those who were unrepentant Lawless ones (Remember Matthew 7:20 – 23)?
Really?
Yes, the Context of Afterlife Repentance above is Described toward ALL THESE STONES that WERE REJECTED as described first (in Context of the Consecutive Verses in the Shepherd of Hermas) as Listed out in Point 6 first, for example including these ones too, (to quote from Point 6 again for emphasis):
These are some of the REJECTED STONES “Context” which are said to REPENT LATER (in the afterlife, after Judgment as explained at the start of Point 7):
“5[13]:3 “But they that have the cracks, who are they?” “These are they that have discord in their hearts against one another, and are not at peace among themselves; who have an appearance of peace, but when they depart from one another, their wickednesses abide in their hearts. These are the cracks which the stones have.
5[13]:4 But they that are broken off short, these have believed, and have their greater part in righteousness, but have some parts of lawlessness; therefore they are too short, and are not perfect.”
7[15]:1 “But the other stones which thou sawest cast far away from the tower and falling into the way and rolling out of the way into the regions where there is no way, these are they that have believed, but by reason of their double heart they abandon their true way. Thus thinking that they can find a better way, they go astray and are sore distressed, as they walk about in the regions where there is no way.
7[15]:2 But they that fall into the fire and are burned, these are they that finally rebelled from the living God, and it no more entered into their hearts to repent by reason of the lusts of their wantonness and of the wickednesses which they wrought.
7[15]:3 But the others, which are near the waters and yet cannot roll into the water, wouldest thou know who are they? These are they that heard the word, and would be baptized unto the name of the Lord. Then, when they call to their remembrance the purity of the truth, they change their minds, and go back again after their evil desires.”
Please don’t believe the Roman Catholic Church’s claims of Purgatory ‘only’ or my claim that it includes all the wicked on account of the ‘same Judgment Sentence’ implied toward the ‘fallen believer & Wicked’ (Luke 12:46 – 48) but ‘read the translation in quoted source’ by yourself and decide for yourselves which is right (Luke 12:57) as the Bereans did who even scrutinized apostle Paul’s sermons & were praised for it (Acts 17:11).
Afterlife Evangelism in Hades & Repentance – Sheepfold2 in the Shepherd of Hermas
15[92]:4 “But the stones, Sir,” say I, “that came from the deep, and were fitted into the building, who are they?” “The first,” saith he, “even the ten, that were placed in the foundations, are the first generation; the twenty-five are the second generation of righteous men; the thirty-five are God’s prophets and His ministers; the forty are apostles and teachers of the preaching of the Son of God.”
15[92]:5 “Wherefore then, Sir,” say I, “did the virgins give in these stones also for the building of the tower and carry them through the gate?”
15[92]:6 “Because these first,” saith he, “bore these spirits, and they never separated the one from the other, neither the spirits from the men nor the men from the spirits, but the spirits abode with them till they fell asleep; and if they had not had these spirits with them, they would not have been found useful for the building of this tower.”
15[92]:1 “Show me still further, Sir,” say I. “What desirest thou to know besides?” saith he. “Wherefore, Sir,” say I, “did the stones come up from the deep, and wherefore were they placed into the building, though they bore these spirits?”
15[92]:2 “It was necessary for them,” saith he, “to rise up through water, that they might be made alive; for otherwise they could not enter into the kingdom of God, except they had put aside the deadness of their [former] life.
15[92]:3 So these likewise that had fallen asleep received the seal of the Son of God and entered into the kingdom of God. For before a man,” saith he, “has borne the name of [the Son of] God, he is dead; but when he has received the seal, he layeth aside his deadness, and resumeth life.
15[92]:4 The seal then is the water: so they go down into the water dead, and they come up alive. “thus to them also this seal was preached, and they availed themselves of it that they might enter into the kingdom of God.”
15[92]:5 “Wherefore, Sir,” say I, “did the forty stones also come up with them from the deep, though they had already received the seal?” “Because,” saith he, “these, the apostles and the teachers who preached the name of the Son of God, after they had fallen asleep in the power and faith of the Son of God, preached also to them that had fallen asleep before them, and themselves gave unto them the seal of the preaching.
15[92]:6 Therefore they went down with them into the water, and came up again. But these went down alive [and again came up alive]; whereas the others that had fallen asleep before them went down dead and came up alive.
15[92]:7 So by their means they were quickened into life, and came to the full knowledge of the name of the Son of God. For this cause also they came up with them, and were fitted with them into the building of the tower and were builded with them, without being shaped; for they fell asleep in righteousness and in great purity. Only they had not this seal. Thou hast then the interpretation of these things also.” “I have, Sir,” say I.
17[94]:1 “Now then, Sir, explain to me concerning the mountains. Wherefore are their forms diverse the one from the other, and various?” “Listen,” saith he. “These twelve mountains are [twelve] tribes that inhabit the whole world. To these (tribes) then the Son of God was preached by the Apostles.”
Conclusion
a) Repentance on Earth now merits becoming His Church
b) Repentance in the afterlife merits much lower places in the Kingdom of the Heavens
Yes, the ‘Kingdom of the Heavens’ includes the ‘Heavens + other regions outside of the heavens, hence it is called kingdom’ (where even the ‘command breakers will eventually enter by His Mercy’, Matthew 5:19, 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28).
‘Kingdom of the Heavens’ = the ‘Heavens + other regions outside of the heavens
Did First Christianity Understand these Verses as it s Written as per the Explanation above?
Yes, for Example:
a.i. Earthly Repentance Context – St. Clement of Rome
St. Clement of Rome says the those who die unrepentant on earth cannot be molded as per soft clay being reshaped
“While we are on earth then, let us repent: for we are clay under the craftsman’s hand.For in like manner as the potter, if he be making a vessel, and it get twisted or crushed in his hands, reshapeth it again; but if he have once put it into the fiery oven, he shall no longer mend it: so also let us, while we are in this world, repent with our whole heart of the evil things which we have done in the flesh, that we may be saved by the Lord, while we have yet time for repentance. For after that we have departed out of the world, we can no more make confession there, or repent any more.” – St. Clement of Rome (c. 35 AD – c. 99 AD, 2 Clement 8:1 – 3)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/2clement-lightfoot.html
a.ii. Afterlife Repentance Context – St. Theophilus of Antioch
St. Theophilus of Antioch says that Men who do NOT repent on earth, the hardened clay as St. Clement of Rome calls it above are ‘Remoulded by Force’ after breaking it up’ (during afterlife Judgments in Hades or in the Lake of Fire or both)
To Quote:
“And God showed great kindness to man in this, that He did not suffer him to remain in sin for ever; but, as it were, by a kind of banishment, cast him out of Paradise, in order that, having by punishment expiated, within an appointed time, the sin, and having been disciplined, he should afterwards be restored. Wherefore also, when man had been formed in this world, it is mystically written in Genesis, as if he had been twice placed in Paradise; so that the one was fulfilled when he was placed there, and the second will be fulfilled after the resurrection and judgment. For just as a vessel, when on being fashioned it has some flaw, is remoulded or remade, that it may become new and entire; so also it happens to man by death. For somehow or other he is broken up, that he may rise in the resurrection whole; I mean spotless, and righteous, and immortal. And as to God’s calling, and saying, Where art thou, Adam? God did this, not as if ignorant of this; but, being long-suffering, He gave him an opportunity of repentance and confession.” – St. Theophilus of Antioch (Died c. 183 AD, Chapter XXVI, Book II, THEOPHILUS TO AUTOLYCUS)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/theophilus-book2.html
This is PROPHETICALLY implied in Revelation 21:5 as God makes ‘All things New’ through the Lake of Fire too (Consecutive Verse Context, Revelation 21:8) where in the End, these “thirsty” ones from the Lake of Fire are Reconciled to Christ (Colossians 1:16, 20) as Prophetically mentioned by the “Spirit” (God) and His “Bride” (Church, Sheepfold1) too in Revelation 22:17 ‘freely’.
“The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.” (Revelation 22:17, NASB)
P/S: Is the Shepherd of Hermas Writing Authoritative as Scripture?
St. Irenaeous of Lyons, Pope Callixtus, St. Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian (during his Catholic days) and the Muratorian Fragment (First/Earliest known Christian Cannon to date) all cite it as Scripture.
.
.
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This Was the True Orthodoxy of the Earliest Church of Lord Jesus Christ in First Christianity which believed that not only the “the church” (believers) will be saved, but “all men” too eventually though some post afterlife Judgments (implied, 1 Timothy 4:10), to quote:
“… And undoubtedly the preaching of the Church is true and stedfast, in which one and the same way of salvation is shown throughout the whole world. For to her is entrusted the light of God; and therefore the “wisdom” of God, by means of which she SAVES ALL MEN, “is declared in [its] going forth; it uttereth [its voice] faithfully in the streets, is preached on the tops of the walls, and speaks continually in the gates of the city.” For the Church preaches the truth everywhere, and she is the seven-branched candlestick which bears the light of Christ…” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book V)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
Please note the phrase “SAVES ALL MEN” in quote above to realize this in St. Irenaeous’ own words above accurately as follows:
Christ is Both the Saviour of Believers in Faith (Church) and All Men too
“For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 4:10, KJV)
Hence, St. Irenaeous’ Conclusion of the Church which Declares the Wisdom of God in the Context of God Who ‘Saves All Men’ as it is Going Forth Beautifully agrees with 1 Timothy 2:1,4,6, 1 Corinthians 15:20 – 23, Romans 5:18 – 19, Titus 2:11, John 12:32 and 1 Timothy 4:10 too in order of “Time” (Proper Context – 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 Corinthians 15:23, Ephesians 1:9 – 11).
Please note the phrase containing “all men” as opposed to the ‘church only’ carefully in the above, emphasized here:
“… “WISDOM” of GOD, by means of which she SAVES ALL MEN, “is DECLARED in [its] GOING FORTH; …” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book V)
Yes, the Church which preaches the Salvation of “all men” declaring it going forth by the WISDOM OF GOD is described as follows by St. Irenaeous of Lyons in the above:
“she is the seven-branched candlestick which bears the light of Christ” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book V)
Please note that the word “offer” does NOT occur in the Original Koine Greek for Titus 2:11 which plainly reads the Glorious Truth St. Irenaeous declared above:
“For the GRACE of God has appeared, bringing SALVATION to ALL MEN,” – apostle Paul (Titus 2:11, NASB)
Yes, His MERCY or GRACE is to “All in disobedience/unbelief” eventually causing Salvation (Verses below) including the Context of His “Enemies” too (Consecutive Verses prior, Romans 11:30 – 31 and especially Romans 11:28 in that the “Love-election or beloved” toward these “enemies of the Gospel” cannot be removed, Romans 11:29):
Toward All in Disobedience
Disobedience cannot stop Universal Reconciliation in Lord Jesus Christ eventually post Judgment:
“From the standpoint of the GOSPEL they are ENEMIES for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are BELOVED for the sake of the fathers; for the GIFTS and the calling of God are IRREVOCABLE … For God has shut up ALL in DISOBEDIENCE so that He may show MERCY to ALL … For from Him and through Him and to Him are ALL THINGS. To Him be the glory forever [to the AGES, AEONS]. Amen.” – apostle Paul (Romans 11:28, 29, 32, 36, NASB)
Toward All in Unbelief too
Unbelief cannot stop Universal Reconciliation in Lord Jesus Christ eventually post Judgment:
“As concerning the GOSPEL, they are ENEMIES for your sakes: but as touching the ELECTION, they are BELOVED for the fathers’ sakes. For the gifts and CALLING of God are without REPENTANCE … For God hath concluded them ALL in UNBELIEF, that He might have MERCY upon ALL… For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are ALL THINGS: to whom be glory for ever [AGES]. Amen.” – apostle Paul (Romans 11:28, 29, 32, 36, KJV)
“For what if some did NOT BELIEVE? shall their UNBELIEF make the FAITH of GOD without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; …” – apostle Paul (Romans 3:3 – 4, KJV)
The Verses above clearly points to ‘liars being those who claim that the FAITH of God or Lord Jesus Christ’s Perfect Faith’ can be stopped from achieving Universal Redemption toward “All” due to ‘unbelief’; can you see it?
Please note the accurate definition:
“Faith of God” (literally in Romans 3:3) = “Faith of Jesus Christ” (Romans 3:22) = Lord Jesus Christ’s Perfect Faith to Save the World and All Creation in it.
To quote,
“Even the Righteousness of God which is by FAITH of JESUS CHRIST unto ALL and upon ALL THEM that BELIEVE: for there is no difference: For ALL have SINNED, and come short of the glory of God; Being JUSTIFIED FREELY by His GRACE through the REDEMPTION that is in Christ Jesus:” – apostle Paul (Romans 3:22 – 24, KJV)
Apostle Paul clearly speaks of two ‘All’s’ in Verses above where —-> the EFFECT of the FAITH of God applies to Unbelievers too eventually (Romans 3:3 – 4) —–> causing JUSTIFICATION of REDEMPTION toward them (Romans 3:24) —–> toward ALL who SINNED (Romans 3:23) —–> which includes ALL MEN (Romans 5:18) who will BE MADE RIGHTEOUS (Romans 5:19) FREELY (Romans 3:24) —-> toward ALL who SINNED eventually (Romans 3:23) —-> as the RIGHTEOUSNESS of GOD through the FAITH of JESUS CHRIST is IMPUTED toward ALL (not believers only, Romans 3:22) —-> but among “ALL who BELIEVE” it is added further that there is “no difference” (Romans 3:22 later part to – 23, Galatians 3:26 – 29).
In the “present time” (on earth, ‘today’), only believers become recipients of this (Romans 3:26):
“To DECLARE, I say, at THIS TIME His righteousness: that He might be Just, and the JUSTIFIER of him which BELIEVETH in JESUS.” – apostle Paul (Romans 3:26, KJV)
So, believers are NOT the only ones saved for all time but the firstfruits (and not the ‘only fruits of His Salvation’) being the first ones to be Saved because His Mercy is on Man and not on the dispensation of this AGE (AEON, “time”), to quote —> Please see the “P/S: at the end of this write up (for a fuller explanation).
“… He [God] may have MERCY upon ALL; ” not saying this in reference to spiritual Aeons, but to MAN, … ” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book III, Chapter XX, second part of Point 3)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
Yes, in the above St. Irenaeous debunks the popular theological myth that God’s Mercy is only available for the ‘time period of now, this age [this AEON]’ —> in his words, “not saying this in reference to spiritual Aeons, but to MAN” — which means that God’s Mercy is to MAN and NOT to the ‘availability in a Time period of an AEON or AGE’ – Can you see it?
Indeed, Christians are the ‘first fruits’ but the rest of men will be ‘made alive’ by Christ in his ‘own order’ of time (1 Corinthians 15:20 – 23):
“In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that WE [Christians] would be a kind of FIRST FRUITS AMONG HIS CREATURES.” – apostle James (James 1:18, NASB)
Believers’ Salvation (the “Church”) is different from others and is in many ways being more special but all men will be Saved eventually too (Matthew 5:19, 1 Timothy 4:10, John 12:32). To quote:
“… for God has displayed LONG-SUFFERING in the case of MAN’s APOSTASY; while man has been instructed by means of it, as also the prophet says, “THINE OWN APOSTASY shall HEAL THEE; ” God thus DETERMINING ALL THINGS BEFOREHAND [Ephesians 1:11] for the BRINGING of MAN to PERFECTION [Ephesians 1:9 – 10], for his edification, and for the revelation of His DISPENSATIONS, that goodness may both be made apparent, and righteousness perfected, and that the CHURCH may be FASHIONED after the IMAGE of His Son, and that MAN may FINALLY be brought to MATURITY at SOME FUTURE TIME, becoming ripe through such privileges to see and comprehend God.” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XXXVII)
Source:
http://gnosis.org/library/advh4.htm
So, the Salvation of ALL MEN will eventually take place and the duty of the True Seven Candlestick Church of Christ is to DECLARE its GOING FORTH as St. Irenaeous Revealed in his quote above too.
This is the meaning of “Mercy which Triumphs over [and ENDS] Judgment” after a “Judgment without Mercy is endured first” by some whose works were such, to quote:
“For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.” – apostle James (James 2:13, NASB)
Indeed,
“So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to ALL MEN, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to ALL MEN. For as through the one man’s disobedience THE MANY were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One THE MANY will be made righteous.” – apostle Paul (Romans 5:18 – 19, NASB)
Yes, this is the True Meaning Set forth in Verses above too (in Correct Context), says who?
With the above Context established in First Orthodox Quotes of the Church as shown, the Doctrine of Recapitulation of Man in the Context of God Saves all Men (i.e. His Will be Done) makes Perfect Sense in “Time” (Dispensations of God), to quote:
The Many many sinners in Adam is the same Many which will be Made Righteous by Lord Jesus Christ (Proper Context for Romans 5:18 – 19)
Under the Equation:
‘Adam + the Many’ = All Men = All Human Beings Ever Existed
Lord Jesus Christ is exempt from the equation above simply because He is God in Flesh and not a mere Man only & Alone is never affected by Adam’s sin in any way.
Says who?
“… For as by the disobedience of the one man who was originally moulded from virgin soil, the many were made sinners, and forfeited life; so was it necessary that, by the obedience of one man, who was originally born from a virgin, [the] many should be justified and receive salvation. Thus, then, was the Word of God made man, as also Moses says: “God, true are His works.” But if, not having been made flesh, He did appear as if flesh, His work was not a true one. But what He did appear, that He also was: God recapitulated in Himself the ancient formation of man, that He might kill sin, deprive death of its power, and vivify man; and therefore His works are true.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XVIII, Book III)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
We Believe and Declare Likewise.
Source Post for Quotes above and more:
Believers – There are two types:
i. Believing before seeing Him (Hebrews 11) – called “faith” (Sheepfold1 – Christians, John 10:14).
ii. Believing after seeing Him (John 6:40) – mostly in the afterlife judgment regions as pointed out in the Shepherd of Hermas Scripture and other rarely known Bible Verses (e. g. those that Speak of the ‘Shadow of Death’ Mystery as explained in Previous posts, example below) – ‘way lower rewards’ (Sheepfold2 – ‘relatively Good-non-Christians’, John 10:16).
Spirit World – Intermediate State Mystery:
Example Quote from Post above:
Regarding Christ being able to Save in the Spirit World itself & Beyond, please consider these two links which Speak of the ‘Shadow of Death’ Context where we know from quote below that St. Irenaeous of Lyons defined the ‘Shadow of Death’ to refer to this ‘Intermediate State-Spirit World’, to quote:
“… For as the Lord “WENT AWAY in the midst of the SHADOW of DEATH” [Ps. 23:4], WHERE the SOULS of the DEAD were, …” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XXXI:2).
Source: http://www.regels.org/Irenaeus-Millennarism.htm
Source:
1) Hell’s Missed Messianic Prophecy – SHADOW of DEATH
2) SHADOW of DEATH – Irrefutable Context – Christ Prophesied to SAVE from HELL itself
SHADOW of DEATH – Irrefutable Context – Christ Prophesied to SAVE from HELL itself
iii. One Day the Whole World will Believe in Him (majority – ‘after’ Seeing Him) as this is Prophetically Implied by His Incarnation as God Became Flesh to eventually Cause the Salvation of the whole world in the Majestic Verse below:
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 3:16, KJV*)
*Prophetic Verses have no Tenses. So, though it is translated as a past tense (e. g. the phrase “believed on in the World (Kosmos)”), it is still not yet fulfilled in full especially concerning the “all created things reconciled/subjected to Him eventually” (Hebrews 2:8, 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28, Colossians 1:16, 20).
Peace to you
Hell is not eternal – Are you a Heretic in Earliest Christianity if you believe so?
No, not at all (discussed next).
Firstly, here’s a little focus on a Forgotten Theological Champion of the East – Bishop Theodore of Mopsuestia
I truly admire his zeal in Holy Scripture toward knowing Lord Jesus Christ.
To quote:
Bishop Theodore of Mopsuestia (c. 350 AD – c. 428 AD)
Mysterious Lost Writings of Theodore in Support of Christ Centered Universalism
To quote:
“Photius mentions that Theodore wrote three books on “Persian Magic”, which not only attacked Zoroastrianism, but according to Photius betrayed his “Nestorian” views in the third book, and DEFENDED BELIEF in the FINAL RESTORATION of ALL MEN.”
Source:
http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Theodore_of_Mopsuestia
Long before Martin Luther & the Protestant Reformation, Bishop Theodore of Mopsuestia Denied the ‘Veneration of Mary’ Doctrine which is Legendary as there is NO other Mediator between Man & God other than God in Flesh, Lord Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5), to quote:
“Theodore “expounded Scripture in all the churches of the East,” says John of Antioch (ibid. ii.2), with some literary license, and adds that in his lifetime Theodore was never arraigned by any of the orthodox. But in a letter to Nestorius (ibid. x.2) John begs him to retract, urging the example of Theodore, who, when in a sermon at Antioch he had said something which gave great and manifest offence, for the sake of peace and to avoid scandal, after a few days as publicly corrected himself. Leontius tells us that the cause of offence was a DENIAL to the VIRGIN MARY of the title THEOTOKOS. So great was the storm that the people threatened to stone the preacher (Cyril of Alexandria Ep. 69). The heretical sects attacked by Theodore showed their resentment in a way less overt, but perhaps more formidable. They tampered with his writings, hoping thus to involve him in heterodox statements (Facund. x.1).”
Source:
http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Theodore_of_Mopsuestia
Please note that Bishop Theodore only apologized after the persuasion of his Bishop friends who were also carried away by the Veneration of Mary by that time not because he agreed with it but out of respect of Christians whom he disagreed with but didn’t intend to break the unity of their churches who were not ready for such depth of the Truth. So, let’s be like Theodore and respect the differences in Doctrine in a church we are attending and not break the Unity by enforcing or preaching the Truth even if we are right simply because they may not be ready for it.
Sacrifice yourself if need to as the Legendary Bishop Theodore did in accordance to the Verses below (which only counts toward those who include others but are excluded for Preaching Christ and not if they are excluded while they too are excluding others):
“Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:11, NASB)
“They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 16:2, NASB)
There is nothing wrong in attending Church with believers with the same doctrine as you (Acts 20:7, apostle Paul did this on Sundays) while also attending a ‘Synagogue’ (or church) together with People who do NOT fully agree with Doctrine with you but acknowledge the Same God (Acts 17:2, apostle Paul did this on Saturdays). So, that’s why I can attend a Church and even offer myself to serve there even if I do not agree with all of their doctrines following apostle Paul in obedience to the Word (Verses Quoted in Principle here) as per 1 Corinthians 11:1 – 2 in Following after Lord Jesus Christ ultimately by doing so.
Is Theodore Reliable?
At Most, Theodore’s Nestorianism (in his writings, if true) were CONDEMNED and NOT his Christ Centered Universalism where Nestorianism was an ancient Christian heresy associated with Nestorius (c. 386–c. 451 C.E.), Patriarch of Constantinople, who taught that Christ consisted of two distinct persons (human and divine Logos), rather than a unified person.
How did “other orthodox saints” during or close to his time view him?
To quote:
“The popularity—and later the criticism—of Theodore increased following his death.
Theodoret of Cyrrhus regarded him as a “doctor of the universal church.”
Cyril of Alexandria relates that “We believe as Theodore believed; long live the faith of Theodore!” was a cry often heard in the churches of the East (Ep. 69).
When the bishops of Syria were called on to criticize his view, they reportedly replied: “We had rather be burnt than condemn Theodore” (Ep. 72).
Source:
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Theodore_of_Mopsuestia
In the last line above, I truly admire the Love of God the ancient Great Bishops of the East had for Bishop Theodore as they declared, “… When the bishops of Syria were called on to criticize his view, they reportedly replied: “We had rather be burnt than condemn Theodore” (Ep. 72) …”.
Some Claim that Theodore of Mopsuestia (whose writings have been lost to us) is not a Universalist.
Really?
Here are two proofs:
The Eternal Hell Theologian Photius Confirms that Theodore of Mopsuestia is a Universalist
To Quote:
“This Theodore is believed to be Theodore of Mopsuestia, since he mentions with approval the heresy of Nestorius, especially in the third book. He also foolishly talks of the restoration of sinners to their former condition.” – Photius (Chapter 81, BIBLIOTHECA OR MYRIOBIBLON)
Source:
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/photius_03bibliotheca.htm#4
Ancient Historical Writings of Syriac Origin?
To quote:
“Theodore of Mopsuestia AD 359 to AD 429 said: “The wicked who have committed evil the whole period of their lives shall be punished till they learn that, by continuing in sin, they only continue in misery. And when, by this means, they shall have been brought to fear God, and to regard him with good will, they shall obtain the enjoyment of his grace. For he never would have said, ‘until thou hast paid the uttermost farthing,’ unless we can be released from suffering after having suffered adequately for sin; nor would he have said, ‘he shall be beaten with many stripes,’ and again, ‘he shall be beaten with few stripes,’ unless the punishment to be endured for sin will have an end.” [Gregorio el Nazianceno, Assemani Bib. Orient. Tom. iii.]
Source:
https://www.triumphofmercy.com/blog/the-duration-of-punishment-5-of-8?view=full#_edn8
Source Post:
Conclusion – No One goes to Hell by believing in Christ Centered Universalism
St. Basil the Great’s own brother (St. Gregory of Nyssa) and his sister (St. Macrina the Younger) both believed in Christ Centered Universalism as we discussed in earlier posts but though he (St. Basil) believed in eternal hell, he never condemned them either nor called this a Doctrine of the Devil.
Similarly, the Champion of Eternal Hell Theolgy, St. Augustine of Hippo himself called the believers of ‘Christ Centered Universalism’ as ‘Tender Hearted and not heretics’. In fact, he even said that ‘Christian Universalist believers do NOT deny Holy Scripture’ meaning that these cannot be labelled as heretics by even these ‘first eternal hell orthodoxy standards’.
No latter council or Christian authority after that should condemn those among their congregation who embrace this larger hope as well in accordance with the Scriptures.
Please note carefully that both St. Basil the Great and St. Augustine of Hippo knew of Christ Centered Universalism in their regions itself as a ‘most likely majority doctrine’ proving that Christ Centered Universalism was the Majority Belief in First Christianity, to quote:
i. St. Basil the Great
“The mass of men (Christians) say there is to be an end to punishment and to those who are punished.” — St. Basil the Great (c. 329 AD – c. 379 AD)
Source:
https://www.mercyuponall.org/tag/church-fathers/
ii. St. Augustine of Hippo
“There are very many in our day, who though not denying the Holy Scriptures, do not believe in endless torments.” — Augustine (354-430 A.D.)
Source:
https://www.mercyuponall.org/tag/church-fathers/
iii. A Neutral Well Known Religious Encyclopedia
“According to the New Schaff–Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (1912), over the first five hundred years of Christian history there are records of at least six theological schools: Four of these schools were Universalist (one each in Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa–Nisibis), one taught conditional immortality (in Ephesus), and the last taught eternal hell (in Carthage or Rome).”
Source:
The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge. New York, London: Funk and Wagnalls Company. 12: 96.
Is it dangerous to philosophize on these Topics especially if hell is eternal or not?
No, not at all according to this Ancient Orthodox Quote from First Christianity Timeline too, to quote:
“Philosophize about the world or worlds; about matter; about soul; about natures endowed with reason, good or bad; about resurrection, about judgment, about reward, or the Sufferings of Christ. For in these subjects to hit the mark is not useless, and to miss it is not dangerous.” –St. Gregory the Theologian (Oration 27)
Source Quote & More Orthodox Quotes in this link:
Believing in Christ Centered Universalism, we embrace all denominations of Christianity even if we don’t agree on all doctrinal points on common grounds such as worshipping God together or in supporting & helping each other in doing good as it was the Practice from Ancient Christianity itself. We change not the Ancient Signposts of First Christianity by Practising this:
“Thus says the LORD, “Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you will find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’.” – Prophet Jeremiah (Jeremiah 6:16, NASB)
Peace to you
Universal Repentance and Salvation Prophecy in the Infamous Messianic Psalm 22
Today I heard a great sermon at a church where the preacher points out correctly that Lord Jesus Christ points to the Messianic Prophesies of Psalm 22 in Matthew 27:46.
However, he didn’t quote all the Verses in this Great Prophecy which actually points to Christ Centered Universalism. To quote (briefly from an earlier post) for edification:
Yes. ALL Nations will Worship Him eventually proving that “ALL men will be Saved” in the End.
Verses:
“All nations whom You have made shall come and worship before You, O Lord, And they shall glorify Your name.” (Psalm 86:9, NASB)
“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” (1 Timothy 2:4, KJV)
“For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.” (1 Timothy 4:10, KJV)
How?
Through Lord Jesus Christ Saving them and they ‘turn to the Lord’ as the Messianic Verses below agree Perfectly to this Prophetic Truth too:
“All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
For the kingdom is the LORD’S
And He rules over the nations.
All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive.” (Psalm 22:27 – 29, NASB)
Please note the phrase “Even he who cannot keep his soul alive” (Psalm 22:29, NASB) and see it as the answer to the question in verse below:
“For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his soul?” – Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 8:36, NASB)
He [Lord Jesus Christ] Himself is the Answer to these ‘impossibilities’:
“For nothing will be impossible with God.” – Archangel Gabriel regarding Christ (Luke 1:37, NASB)
Conclusion
“When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?”
And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (Matthew 19:25 – 26, NASB )
Please note these phrases from the Verses (Prophecy) above which Speaks of Universal Repentance and Salvation even toward one who couldn’t keep his soul alive (destroyed in the Lake of Fire or Gehenna first according to Matthew 10:28):
“All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, … And all the families of the nations will worship before You. … All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him, … Even he who cannot keep his soul alive.”
Yes “All” (please note and read ‘carefully’ as it is Written). This agrees perfectly to the Christian Jewish Sibyline Oracles and Revelation 22:17 where the Bride (Church, Christians) call out with the Spirit (God) toward the “thirsty” (soul destroyed ones) from the Lake of Fire, right?
Most Blessed be Lord Jesus Christ the Savior of the World!
Source Post and more related reading:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/end-for-the-nations-is-it-all-nations/amp/
Peace to you
Wicked Healed after Punishment in the Resurrection of Judgment?
To quote (image too – from St. Justin Martyr who walked with those who directly walked with the apostles):
The wicked benefit only Christ’s Making alive in a sinless body (healing the damaged soul + body in Gehenna) as St. Justin Martyr points will be done in this way (renewal, repair) toward His Enemies too as His Ransom is toward “All” (1 Timothy 2:6) including ‘all men too’ (1 Timothy 2:4) especially believers (1 Timothy 4:10).
This Context is strengthened & Expanded next by the Fact that St. Justin Martyr understands the Verse above to mean that for a Christian, all three (Body, Soul, Spirit) is Saved (1 Thessalonians 5:23) while for the Wicked (Body, Soul) can be Destroyed in the Lake of Fire (Gehenna, Matthew 10:28) implying that the latter only ‘live in their spirit’ thereafter as St. Irenaeous’ quote and Verses above seems to suggest (1 Peter 4:6, 1 Corinthians 5:5) post afterlife Judgment but these ‘destroyed body/soul in Gehenna’ (Matthew 10:28) may be ‘regenerated to the Salvation of the destroyed Body, Soul’ in St. Justin’s quote below (though albeit mysterious):
“.. But, in truth, He has even called the flesh to the resurrection, and promises to it everlasting life. For where He promises to save man, there He gives the promise to the flesh. For what is man but the reasonable animal composed of body and soul? Is the soul by itself man? No; but the soul of man. Would the body be called man? No, but it is called the body of man. If, then, neither of these is by itself man, but that which is made up of the two together is called man, and God has called man to life and resurrection, He has called not a part, but the whole, which is the soul and the body. Since would it not be unquestionably absurd, if, while these two are in the same being and according to the same law, the one were saved and the other not? And if it be not impossible, as has already been proved, that the flesh be regenerated, what is the distinction on the ground of which the soul is saved and the body not? Do they make God a grudging God? But He is good, and will have all to be saved…. But no thanks are due to one who saves what is his own; for this is to save himself. For he who saves a part himself, saves himself by his own means, lest he become defective in that part; and this is not the act of a good man. For not even when a man does good to his children and offspring, does one call him a good man; for even the most savage of the wild beasts do so, and indeed willingly endure death, if need be, for the sake of their cubs. But if a man were to perform the same acts in behalf of his slaves, that man would justly be called good. Wherefore the Saviour also taught us to love our enemies, since, says He, what thank have ye? So that He has shown us that it is a good work not only to love those that are begotten of Him, but also those that are without. And what He enjoins upon us, He Himself first of all does.” – St. Justin Martyr (100 AD – 165 AD, On the Resurrection, Chapter VIII)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-resurrection.html
Conclusion
It is very clear from the above that St. Justin Martyr Speaks the Salvation of Body, Soul and Spirit for believers and then implies (in the latter) part that since God is Good, He will not only do this to His Own (or ‘those begotten of Him’, Christians, Sheepfold1 John 10:14) but also toward His Slaves (Sheepfold2, John 10:16) and even toward His Enemies (the wicked, eventually) as the Context of the Passage (Topic) only Speaks of this. Pleas note that the Wicked may only attain to this Salvation of ‘Body, Soul’ (the ‘houses in his own definition below’) which must undergo ‘decay/destruction first’ (Matthew 10:28 in Gehenna or the Lake of Fire first, implied) before ‘Renewal, Salvation, Restoration’ as explained in a Parabolic way above.
What is First Christianity’s Definition of “Body, Soul and Spirit in a Man” as St. Justin Martyr’s own words below reveal?
“For the body is the house of the soul; and the soul the house of the spirit. These three, in all those who cherish a sincere hope and unquestioning faith in God, will be saved.” (‘FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION’ CHAPTER X)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-resurrection.html
More line by line careful analysis of St. Justin’s Quote with Source is discussed under the Subtopic of “Judgment – God Judges No One – Saves All – Wrath Context” after the question ‘What did First Christianity Preach regarding the ‘Destruction of the Soul’?’ in link below:
Peace to you
Source Post for the Above for further edifying reading for this Possible Hope:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-gehenna-hell-if-we-are-judged-till-the-last-penny-why-need-christ/amp/
P/S: How Orthodox was St. Justin Martyr?
“And Justin of Neapolis, a man who was not far separated from the apostles either in age or excellence, says that that which is mortal is inherited, but that which is immortal inherits; and that the flesh indeed dies, but the kingdom of heaven lives.” — From METHODIUS On the Resurrection, in Photius. (Fragment V, St. Justin Martyr’s Lost Writings)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-fragments.html
Note: Justin of Neapolis = St. Justin Martyr.
God is Good All the Time even toward His Enemies and He never Changes.
P/S: Contextual Details
To quote:
What did First Christianity Preach regarding the ‘Destruction of the Soul’?
To quote:
“We must meet, therefore, those who say, that even though it be the special handiwork of God, and beyond all else valued by Him, it would not immediately follow that it has the promise of the resurrection. Yet is it not absurd, that that which has been produced with such circumstance, and which is beyond all else valuable, should be so neglected by its Maker, as to pass to nonentity? Then the sculptor and painter, if they wish the works they have made to endure, that they may win glory by them, renew them when they begin to decay; but God would so neglect His own possession and work, that it becomes annihilated, and no longer exists. Should we not call this labour in vain? As if a man who has built a house should forthwith destroy it, or should neglect it, though he sees it falling into decay, and is able to repair it: we would blame him for labouring in vain; and should we not so blame God? But not such an one is the Incorruptible,–not senseless is the Intelligence of the universe. Let the unbelieving be silent, even though they themselves do not believe.
But, in truth, He has even called the flesh to the resurrection, and promises to it everlasting life. For where He promises to save man, there He gives the promise to the flesh. For what is man but the reasonable animal composed of body and soul? Is the soul by itself man? No; but the soul of man. Would the body be called man? No, but it is called the body of man. If, then, neither of these is by itself man, but that which is made up of the two together is called man, and God has called man to life and resurrection, He has called not a part, but the whole, which is the soul and the body. Since would it not be unquestionably absurd, if, while these two are in the same being and according to the same law, the one were saved and the other not? And if it be not impossible, as has already been proved, that the flesh be regenerated, what is the distinction on the ground of which the soul is saved and the body not? Do they make God a grudging God? But He is good, and will have all to be saved. And by God and His proclamation, not only has your soul heard and believed on Jesus Christ, and with it the flesh, but both were washed, and both wrought righteousness. They make God, then ungrateful and unjust, if, while both believe on Him, He desires to save one and not the other. Well, they say, but the soul is incorruptible, being a part of God and inspired by Him, and therefore He desires to save what is peculiarly His own and akin to Himself; but the flesh is corruptible, and not from Him, as the soul is. Then what thanks are due to Him, and what manifestation of His power and goodness is it, if He purposed to save what is by nature saved and exists as a part of Himself? For it had its salvation from itself; so that in saving the soul, God does no great thing. For to be saved is its natural destiny, because it is a part of Himself, being His inspiration. But no thanks are due to one who saves what is his own; for this is to save himself. For he who saves a part himself, saves himself by his own means, lest he become defective in that part; and this is not the act of a good man. For not even when a man does good to his children and offspring, does one call him a good man; for even the most savage of the wild beasts do so, and indeed willingly endure death, if need be, for the sake of their cubs. But if a man were to perform the same acts in behalf of his slaves, that man would justly be called good. Wherefore the Saviour also taught us to love our enemies, since, says He, what thank have ye? So that He has shown us that it is a good work not only to love those that are begotten of Him, but also those that are without. And what He enjoins upon us, He Himself first of all does.” – St. Justin Martyr (‘FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION’ CHAPTER VIII)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-resurrection.html
Conclusion
Firstly, his definition of ‘body, soul and spirit’ (Context) in which the above is to be understood (from this same writing/source):
“The resurrection is a resurrection of the flesh which died. For the spirit dies not; the soul is in the body, and without a soul it cannot live. The body, when the soul forsakes it, is not. For the body is the house of the soul; and the soul the house of the spirit. These three, in all those who cherish a sincere hope and unquestioning faith in God, will be saved.” (‘FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION’ CHAPTER X)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-resurrection.html
Please note the following carefully in St. Justin Martyr’s own words regarding the Topic of the “Soul” in regards to the “Resurrection” from the above:
i) The believer in faith’s (Christian’s) Soul and Body will not be harmed at all in any way in afterlife Judgment
“These three [Body, Soul, Spirit], in all those who cherish a sincere hope and unquestioning faith in God, will be saved” – St. Justin Martyr
ii) Soul of the Wicked is NOT annihilated
The Destruction of the Soul of some in Gehenna (Matthew 10:28) is NOT till it ceases to exist.
“but God would so neglect His own possession and work, that it becomes annihilated, and no longer exists” – St. Justin Martyr
The above quote must refer to Gehenna (Lake of Fire or Hell) since nowhere else in Holy Scripture it is Written that both the ‘Body + Soul’ is Destroyed during the Final Resurrection of Judgment toward the Wicked (John 5:29, Matthew 10:28, Daniel 12:2, Revelation 20:11 – 15).
iii) Soul of the Wicked too has Hope
“it would not immediately follow that it has the promise of the resurrection. Yet is it not absurd, that that which has been produced with such circumstance, and which is beyond all else valuable, should be so neglected by its Maker, as to pass to nonentity?” – St. Justin Martyr
The “it” in the above = [the Soul of the Wicked, right?] because it does ‘not immediately have the promise of Resurrection’, as do the souls of believers (or the righteous), right?
iv) God Promised to Save Man or “All Men”, right?
Yes, as St. Justin quotes it Generally toward “Man” & hence ‘all men’ (implied by usage):
“But, in truth, He has even called the flesh to the resurrection, and promises to it everlasting life. For where He promises to save man, there He gives the promise to the flesh.” – St. Justin Martyr
v) God’s Promise to Save Man Generally in Both Body and Soul
” For what is man but the reasonable animal composed of body and soul? Is the soul by itself man? No; but the soul of man. Would the body be called man? No, but it is called the body of man. If, then, neither of these is by itself man, but that which is made up of the two together is called man, and God has called man to life and resurrection, He has called not a part, but the whole, which is the soul and the body. ” – St. Justin Martyr
vi) God Promises to not neglect any Body + Soul of a Man into Eternal Conscious Torment (implied generally below) including toward unbelievers though they don’t believe, right?
“Should we not call this labour in vain? As if a man who has built a house should forthwith destroy it, or should neglect it, though he sees it falling into decay, and is able to repair it: we would blame him for labouring in vain; and should we not so blame God? But not such an one is the Incorruptible,–not senseless is the Intelligence of the universe. Let the unbelieving be silent, even though they themselves do not believe.” – St. Justin Martyr
vii) Some Body + Soul must be destroyed or neglect or die or decay first before Renewal
“… should be so neglected by its Maker, as to pass to nonentity? … renew them when they begin to decay; but God would so neglect His own possession and work, that it becomes annihilated, and no longer exists. … As if a man who has built a house should forthwith destroy it, or should neglect it, though he sees it falling into decay, and is able to repair it: we would blame him for labouring in vain; and should we not so blame God? But not such an one is the Incorruptible,–not senseless is the Intelligence of the universe. Let the unbelieving be silent, even though they themselves do not believe.” – St. Justin Martyr
Please note that the analogy of “house” in the above refers to St. Justin’s own definition that he views the ‘body and soul’ the houses for the ‘soul and spirit’ respectively (Context here – as the link implies when read in full). Can you see it?
viii) Both Body and Soul will be Saved by Regeneration (Healing, Vivified) too
“And if it be not impossible, as has already been proved, that the flesh be regenerated, what is the distinction on the ground of which the soul is saved and the body not? Do they make God a grudging God? But He is good, and will have all to be saved.” – St. Justin Martyr
ix) Believers (Sheepfold1) are Saved in both Body and Soul first without any Destruction
“And by God and His proclamation, not only has your soul heard and believed on Jesus Christ, and with it the flesh, but both were washed, and both wrought righteousness. They make God, then ungrateful and unjust, if, while both believe on Him, He desires to save one and not the other.” – St. Justin Martyr
x) Does the Salvation above in Body + Soul being Saved eventually apply to believers only or all men eventually too?
All Men as well as metaphorically described as follows:
God does NOT Save believers in faith only (Sheepfold1, His Own Body, His Church, His Bride) in this Context of ‘Body + Soul’ being Saved eventually
“But no thanks are due to one who saves what is his own; for this is to save himself. For he who saves a part himself, saves himself by his own means, lest he become defective in that part; and this is not the act of a good man. For not even when a man does good to his children and offspring, does one call him a good man; for even the most savage of the wild beasts do so, and indeed willingly endure death, if need be, for the sake of their cubs.” – St. Justin Martyr
xii. God does Saves His Slaves too (Sheepfold2) in this Context of ‘Body + Soul’ being Saved eventually
“But if a man were to perform the same acts in behalf of his slaves, that man would justly be called good.” – St. Justin Martyr
xiii. God does Saves His Enemies too (the Wicked, those ‘not begotten of him’, in Justin’s word below ‘also those that are without’) in this Context of ‘Body + Soul’ being Saved eventually
“Wherefore the Saviour also taught us to love our enemies, since, says He, what thank have ye? So that He has shown us that it is a good work not only to love those that are begotten of Him, but also those that are without. And what He enjoins upon us, He Himself first of all does.” – – St. Justin Martyr
So, it is obvious hat St. Justin Martyr fully Described the Salvation of Body + Soul to apply to ‘All Flesh’ (all human being eventually) as Described in his quotes above where some is only post afterlife Judgment in Gehenna or the Lake of Fire where these ‘bodies + souls’ are ‘destroyed’ first (his analogies of ‘decay’, ‘neglect’, ‘destroy’ in the above means – Matthew 10:28) agreeing Perfectly to Christ’s Prophesied Completion of His Work (John 17:4) Accordingly in the Majestic Verse below (John 17:2):
New American Standard Bible
even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.
Grand Conclusion – Quote from First Christianity
As highlighted above, Irenaeus is considered to be the first to clearly express a recapitulation view of the atonement, although he is anticipated by Justin Martyr,[14]whom Irenaeus quotes in Against Heresies4.6.2:
In his book against Marcion, Justin does well say: “I would not have believed the Lord Himself, if He had announced any other than He who is our framer, maker, and nourisher. But because the only-begotten Son came to us from the one God, who both made this world and formed us, and contains and administers all things, summing up His own handiwork in Himself, my faith towards Him is steadfast, and my love to the Father immoveable, God bestowing both upon us.” [Emphasis added]
There follows two representative quotes from Irenaeus:
[Christ] was in these last days, according to the time appointed by the Father, united to His own workmanship, inasmuch as He became a man liable to suffering … He commenced afresh1 the long line of human beings, and furnished us, in a brief, comprehensive manner, with salvation; so that what we had lost in Adam—namely, to be according to the image and likeness of God—that we might recover in Christ Jesus.
- 1 So the Syriac. The Latin has, “in seipso recapitulavit,” He summed up in Himself.[15]
He has therefore, in His work of recapitulation, summed up all things, both waging war against our enemy, and crushing him who had at the beginning led us away captives in Adam …the enemy would not have been fairly vanquished, unless it had been a man [born] of woman who conquered him. … And therefore does the Lord profess Himself to be the Son of man, comprising in Himself that original man out of whom the woman was fashioned, in order that, as our species went down to death through a vanquished man, so we may ascend to life again through a victorious one; and as through a man death received the palm [of victory] against us, so again by a man we may receive the palm against death.
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recapitulation_theory_of_atonement
ShaloM
Source Post:
Peace to you
Christians must Honor their Leaders even if they are Wrong Doctrinally
Really?
Yes, in Verses below apostle Paul honored the ‘High Priest of his time even though he knows that the High Priest is Doctrinally Wrong though he has the biggest congregation in all of Israel (so, the number of people believing something does not prove truth either’)’:
“Paul, looking intently at the Council, said, “Brethren, I have lived my life with a perfectly good conscience before God up to this day.” The high priest Ananias commanded those standing beside him to strike him on the mouth. Then Paul said to him, “God is going to strike you, you whitewashed wall! Do you sit to try me according to the Law, and in violation of the Law order me to be struck?” But the bystanders said, “Do you revile God’s high priest?” And Paul said, “I was not aware, brethren, that he was high priest; for it is written, ‘YOU SHALL NOT SPEAK EVIL OF A RULER OF YOUR PEOPLE.’” (Acts of the Apostles 23:1 – 5, NASB)
Why?
That’s how you love them ‘truly’ and more importantly, following after apostle Paul’s Ways is Following Christ as Christ Leads him by His Holy Spirit, Verses:
“Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ. Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 11:1 – 2, NASB)
Peace to you
All Children of God? – Orthodox Truth
Calvinism says that only Christians are children of God hence only they will be saved.
According to First Christianity, all are His Children and the Verses of Exclusion Speak of being excluded from “inheritance in His Kingdom as Kings & Priests” (Revelation 1:6, from His 1000 years Millennial Reign onward via the First Resurrection when He Returns, Revelation 20:4 – 6, the hope referred to in Context of 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18 which is not available to the rest) and ‘not that the rest are alienated from life or being Saved itself’ as even the command-breakers will live in His ‘Kingdom of the Heavens’ eventually (Matthew 5:19), to quote this aspect, please consider:
Sons of the Devil – True Meaning is not eternal exclusion but no inheritance only (Matthew 5:19’s all are Sons by Nature or 1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10’s not inheriting the kingdom meaning implied below)
iii) All are Children of God but Christians, the Elect gain the highest Inheritance in His Kingdom (e.g. as Priests & Kings, Revelation 1:6, Revelation 5:10) while the others do NOT (1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10) in His Kingdom which Begins with His 1000 Years Millennial Reign Visibly on Earth (Revelation 20:4 – 6).
What is the True Meaning of Sons of God vs sons of the Devil?
Who says all are still Children of God where the difference between obedient vs disobedient Children is getting inheritance vs not getting inheritance in His Kingdom?
St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD):
” Since, therefore, all things were made by God, and since the devil has become the cause of apostasy to himself and others, justly does the Scripture always term those who remain in a state of apostasy “SONS of the DEVIL” and “angels of the wicked one” (maligni). For [the word] “son,” as one before me has observed, has a twofold meaning: one [is a son] in the order of nature, because he was born a son; the other, in that he was made so, is reputed a son, although there be a difference between being born so and being made so. For the first is indeed born from the person referred to; but the second is made so by him, whether as respects his creation or by the teaching of his doctrine. … For as, among men, those sons who DISOBEY their fathers, being DISINHERITED, are STILL THEIR SONS in the course of NATURE, but by LAW are DISINHERITED, for they do NOT become the HEIRS of their natural parents; so in the SAME WAY is it with God,-those who do NOT OBEY Him being DISINHERITED by Him, have CEASED to be His sons. Wherefore they CANNOT RECEIVE His INHERITANCE…” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XLI, Point 2 and Point 3)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
The Context in which Holy Scripture is clear as Irenaeous implies the Paternal Love of the Father that ALL are HIS SONS due to being CREATED by HIM, hence HIS CHILDREN.
However, in regards to ‘obedience and doctrine’, the ‘sons of the Devil are those who disobey and hence do NOT inherit His Kingdom’ (1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10, e.g. may just ‘enter only’ to live in some OUTSIDE permitted regions of the ‘kingdom of the heavens’ and NOT the heavens, please take note ‘carefully’, being the ‘least’ due to Command-Breaking Matthew 5:19) vs in Contrast, ‘His Sons of obedience & doctrine’ INHERIT His Kingdom (e.g. highest positions such as KING & PRIESTS too, Revelation 1:6, Ephesians 3:6 and beyond!, 1 Corinthians 2:9 being the ‘Great’ in His Kingdom of the Heavens too, Matthew 5:19).
(which implies that all men will be Saved eventually, 1 Timothy 4:10 even the reconciliation of some from the Lake of Fire as Revelation 22:17 Mysteriously Prophesies but the believers are more special in Physical Glory, 1 Corinthians 15:37 – 42, in inheritance, Romans 8:17, even in gradation of those saved first, Matthew 13:23, inclusive of those saved in spirit only first, 1 Corinthians 5:5, 1 Peter 4:6 toward those who break His Commandments too – Matthew 5:19, in the Context of All Law and Prophets, Matthew 5:17 – 18 first – John 12:32).
Source Post:
Lake of Fire – Gehenna – Hell – If we are Judged till the Last Penny – Why need Christ?
Peace to you
Eternal Life or Age-during Life? Tree of Life Perspective – Live Forever?
The Actual Word in Holy Scripture is
Olam (Hebrew, in Old Testament) = Koine Greek (Aeon, in New Testament) = English (Age, unknown long time but limited in duration).
First Christianity Defined the ‘Eternal Life’ (equivalent term ‘Zoe Aionion, Matthew 25:46’) if it refers to the ‘Same Life after Partaking of the Tree of Life’ (Genesis 3:22 in image, or in Revelation 2:7) as ‘Exactly 1000 years Time Period of His Millennial Reign where only Christians will be Resurrected’ (Revelation 20:4 – 6).
Says who?
One of the First kings of Christian Theology and a leading Marytr after the Apostles themselves, St. Justin Martyr below:
“… Now we have understood that the expression used among these words, ‘According to the days of the tree[of life] shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound’ obscurely predicts a thousand years. For as Adam was told that in the nay fie ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject…” – St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’, CHAPTER LXXX)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.htm
Proof Quote:
“According to the days of the tree[of life] shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound’ obscurely predicts a thousand years.” – St. Justin Martyr
Not only him, but the king of Orthodoxy after him who was sent by God to correct even the Roman Church at that time testifies to this same definition that the “days of the tree of life” (Olam or Aeon or Age-during) refers exactly to this ‘1000 years only and not forever’.
Please note carefully that ‘sinners’ (mortals) are still present on earth during that time and Judgment Day & the Lake of Fire Judgment is only ‘after’ this ‘1000 years Aeonian Life’ is finished with the Tree of Life, to quote from a previous write up:
Does it mean that after the 1000 years, they die?
No, they obtain “Immortality” (an entirely different word in New Testament Greek) but only after that 1000 years part as part of the ‘Glorification Process’, to quote (this fine detail explanation from First Christianity):
Yes, it’s during the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ (Revelation 20:4 – 6) alongside ‘sinful’ mortals too though the ‘First Resurrection ones’ (Sheepfold1, Christians) never sin again nor marry (Luke 20:35 – 36), to quote:
” Also there shall not be there any immature [one], nor an old man who does not fulfil his time: for the youth shall be of a hundred years; and the sinner shall die a hundred years old, yet shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and inhabit them themselves; and shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them themselves, and shall drink wine. And they shall not build, and others inhabit; neither shall they prepare the vineyard, and others eat. For as the days of the tree of life shall be the days of the people in thee; for the works of their hands shall endure.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book 5)
Please note this phrase carefully from the above which proves that the ‘fruit of the Tree of Life’ gives ‘age-during (Aeonian life)’ for ‘a thousand years and NOT forever’:
“For as the days of the tree of life shall be the days of the people in thee;” – St. Irenaeous
Please note that the phrase ‘immortality is conferred also’ in the quote below proofs that these ones do not die after the ‘age-during length of days due to the Tree of Life’:
“As we at once perceive that the Creator (Demiurgo) is in this passage represented as vivifying our dead bodies, and promising resurrection to them, and resuscitation from their sepulchres and tombs, conferring upon them immortality also (He says, “For as the tree of life, so shall their days be” ), He is shown to be the only God who accomplishes these things, and as Himself the good Father, benevolently conferring life upon those who have not life from themselves.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5)
Translation source for St. Irenaeous’ quotes above:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
Source Post and a more detailed discussion regarding this, please consider the link below:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/hell-forever-salvation-of-spirit-from-hell-too-facts-from-first-christianity/amp/
We Believe and Declare Likewise.
Peace to you
Psalm 107 – Shadow of Death or Salvation from Hell Mystery
“… He Descended… ” – The Apostle’s Creed (First Christianity)
To quote:
i) God
God Himself Mentions the ‘Shadow of Death’ when He Majestically Answered Job regarding the Hidden Things about the Afterlife (in Verse below):
“Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?” – God Answers Job (in Job 38:17, KJV)
Which ‘Shadow of Death’ is God talking about?
ii) Job
The ‘afterlife punishment regions’ as Job was contemplating earlier, an example Verse:
“Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the SHADOW of DEATH; A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness.” (Job 10:21 – 22, KJV)
Job clearly sets the context of afterlife when referring to go to the region of the SHADOW of DEATH from which he will not return in Job 10:21. It’s obvious from the surrounding verses too such as Job 10:19 – 20 which points to his few days on earth from womb to the grave.
iii) Irenaeous
“… For as the Lord “went away in the midst of the shadow of death,” where the souls of the dead were, …” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XXXI, Book V)
Conclusion
Please consider these two links below for further edification:
1) Hell’s Missed Messianic Prophecy – SHADOW of DEATH
2) SHADOW of DEATH – Irrefutable Context – Christ Prophesied to SAVE from HELL itself
SHADOW of DEATH – Irrefutable Context – Christ Prophesied to SAVE from HELL itself
Eternal Darkness or Hope in the Shadow of Death?
Verse:
“Seek Him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is His Name:” (Amos 5:8, KJV)
Please note the phrase “turneth the shadow of death into the morning” carefully in Verse above under the definition that the “shadow of death” refers to a location where some of the “souls of the dead” are, says who?
“… For as the Lord “went away in the midst of the shadow of death,” where the souls of the dead were, …” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XXXI, Book V)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
So, in light of this Biblical and First Christianity Context, is there an ‘eternal darkness’ which He will not turn to ‘light’ eventually?
I don’t think so:
“He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that He might fill all things.)” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 4:10, KJV)
Is that a proper context of the Verse above?
Yes, to quote the ‘opposite’ that only a Gnostic heretic taught that there is an ‘eternal darkness or shadow of some sort which is forever abandoned and will not be filled by Christ’s light’:
“For, according to them, the light of their Father will be changed into darkness and buried in obscurity, and will come to an end in those places which are characterized by emptiness, since it cannot penetrate and fill all things. Let them then no longer declare that their Bythus is the fulness of all things, if indeed he has neither filled nor illuminated that which is vacuum and shadow; or, on the other hand, let them cease talking of vacuum and shadow, if the light of their Father does in truth fill all things.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book II)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html
Please realize the easy fact that St. Irenaeous believes exactly the ‘opposite’ to the ‘Gnostic heresy’ he combats in the above quote (it should be obvious agreeing literally to the earlier Bible Verses).
Peace to you
P/S: Holy Scripture’s Shadow of Death Context is Metaphorically Hell
Example (with Christ Saving from Hell or the ‘Shadow of Death’ Regions eventually is Described / Prophesied):
i) Psalm 107:10
“Such as sit in darkness and in the SHADOW of DEATH, being bound in affliction and iron;” (Psalm 107:10, KJV)
These ones are punished in the afterlife gloomy regions of Sheol (the SHADOW of DEATH) for “rebelling” against the “Word of God” & viewing “His Counsel” with “contempt” (Psalm 107:11).
(ii) Psalm 107:14
“He brought THEM OUT of darkness and the SHADOW of DEATH, and brake their bands in sunder.” (Psalm 107:14, KJV)
God in Christ SAVES them that were Bound to these afterlife punishment regions of Sheol (SHADOW of DEATH) as it is mentioned in verse above so clearly after they cried out to Him first as it is mentioned in Psalm 107:13.
Source Post:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/hell-forever-salvation-of-spirit-from-hell-too-facts-from-first-christianity/amp/
Peace to you
Salvation from Hell – Prayer for the Dead
Please note that First Christianity taught “Prayer for the dead” and NOT “prayer to the dead” as it has now sometimes become.
What’s the difference?
In the former, we (Christians) pray for those in Judgment of Hades (Hell) especially toward our own family/friends so that they may be Saved by God’s Mercy somewhere during or after their afterlife Judgment Sentence. In the latter, some pray to dead saints which we do NOT practice.
We only Pray to Lord Jesus Christ on behalf of any dead who may have not have believed in Him in this temporal life itself.
Here are a few FAQs:
1) Is it Biblical?
Yes, to quote:
A passage in the New Testament which may refer to a prayer for the dead is found in 2 Timothy 1:16-18, which reads as follows:
“May the Lord grant mercy to the house of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain, but when he was in Rome, he sought me diligently, and found me (the Lord grant to him to find the Lord’s mercy on that day); and in how many things he served at Ephesus, you know very well.”
As with the verses from 2 Maccabees, these verses refer to prayers that will help the deceased “on that day” (perhaps Judgement Day, see also end times). It is not stated that Onesiphorus, for whom Saint Paul prayed, was dead, though some scholars infer this, based on the way Paul only refers to him in the past tense, and prays for present blessings on his household, but for him only “on that day”. And towards the end of the same letter, in 2 Timothy 4:19, Paul sends greetings to “Prisca and Aquila, and the house of Onesiphorus”, distinguishing the situation of Onesiphorus from that of the still living Prisca and Aquila.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_for_the_dead
2) Can we Pray for our non-Christian friends to be Saved from Hades (Current Hell Regions)?
Yes, to quote:
i. St. Basil the Great (quote in image is the same)
“Saint Basil the Great (379 AD), writes in his Third Kneeling Prayer at Pentecost: “O Christ our God…(who) on this all-perfect and saving Feast, art graciously pleased to accept propitiatory prayers for those who are imprisoned in hades, promising unto us who are held in bondage great hope of release from the vilenes that doth hinder us and did hinder them … send down Thy consolation… and establish their souls in the mansions of the Just; and graciously vouchsafe unto them peace and pardon; for not the dead shall praise thee, O Lord, neither shall they who are in Hell make bold to offer unto thee confession. But we who are living will bless thee, and will pray, and offer unto thee propitiatory prayers and sacrifices for their souls.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_for_the_dead
Comment: Contrary to modern additions, please note carefully that St. Basil’s quote does NOT limit the “prayer for the dead” to refer to ‘Christians only as this limit was added say by some Theologians such as Tertullian and Augustine’, to quote (from the same source above ‘within the Roman Catholic Church Context itself’):
“Public prayers were only offered for those who were believed to have died as faithful members of the Church. But Saint Perpetua, who was martyred in 202 AD, believed herself to have been encouraged in a vision to pray for her brother, who had died in his eighth year, almost certainly unbaptized; and a later vision assured her that her prayer was answered and he had been translated from punishment. St. Augustine thought it needful to point out that the narrative was not canonical Scripture, and contended that the child had perhaps been baptized.”
I repeat, St. Basil the Great’s Quote above implies that the Prayer to the Dead may be done on behalf of ‘anyone in Hades (Hell)’ or ‘toward Christians that they may obtain their fullest rewards in their heavenly mansions’ but which Prayer will be answered now & be it after how long of a Judgment Sentence which must be endured first will be decided by God as He lets especially His Angelic Authorities to decide it now (Hebrews 2:2, John 12:48).
ii. St. Gregory Dialogus
“Saint Gregory Dialogus († 604 AD) in his famous Dialogues (written in 593 AD) teaches that, “The Holy Sacrifice (Eucharist) of Christ, our saving Victim, brings great benefits to souls even after death, provided their sins (are such as) can be pardoned in the life to come.” However, St. Gregory goes on to say, the Church’s practice of prayer for the dead must not be an excuse for not living a godly life on earth. “The safer course, naturally, is to do for ourselves during life what we hope others will do for us after death.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_for_the_dead
iii. More Bible Verses
Verses agreeing to this in the Context of the Salvation of “All Men” (every human being ever created) where “believers” (Christians) are the ‘special subset’, please consider ‘carefully’:
“… I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, PRAYERS, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for ALL MEN, … Who [God our Saviour]* WILL HAVE ALL MEN to be SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth… For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we TRUST in the LIVING GOD, who is the SAVIOR of ALL MEN, specially of THOSE that BELIEVE…” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 2:1, 2:4, 4:10, KJV)
*[Emphasis Mine]
A Grand Conclusion
Church History Example – First Orthodox Christianity:
St. Melito of Sardis
The ‘afterlife keeping in prison’ Post-Judgment awaiting Christ’s Salvation via Preaching of the Gospel has happened in the past (1 Peter 3:18 – 19) toward all as even St. Melito of Sardis clearly revealed proving this Context true toward the ‘future Gehenna Judgment’ as well as 1 Peter 4:5 – 6 implies:
Verses Describing this Parabolically: Mark 3:27 & Matthew 12:29.
First Christianity taught this:
“The Lord, having put on human nature, and having suffered for him who suffered, having been bound for him who was bound, and having been buried for him who was buried, is risen from the dead, and loudly proclaims this message: Who will contend against me? Let him stand before me. It is I who delivered the condemned. It is I who gave life to the dead. It is I who raised up the buried. Who will argue with me? It is I, says Christ, who destroyed death. It is I who triumphed over the enemy, and having trod down HADES, and bound the STRONG MAN, and have SNATCHED MANKIND up to the HEIGHTS of HEAVEN. It is I, says Christ. So then, come here ALL you FAMILIES of MEN, weighed down by your sins and recieve pardon for your misdeeds. For I am your pardon. I am the Passover which brings salvation. I am the Lamb slain for you. I am your lustral bath. I am your life. I am your resurrection. I am your light, I am your salvation, I am your King. It is I who brings you up to the heights of heaven. It is I who will give you the resurrection there. I will show you the Eternal Father. I will raise you up with my own right hand.” – St. Melito, Jewish Bishop of Sardis (Died c. 180 AD, ‘Homily on Pascha’)
Source:
https://www.orthodox.net/pascha/pascha-melito.html
Please note ‘carefully’ also that neither of these quote refers to men of the past alone but “Man” in general (e. g. St. Irenaeous’ uses a two-fold argument to refer to Man and Adam by equivalence being set free from Condemnation* while St. Melito’s quote clearly mentions that Christ brings Salvation to all the families of Mankind in Hades itself) . Yes , even Hades/Sheol is mentioned in St. Melito’s quote. A Deep Mystery Indeed.
There is no despair or lost of Hope beyond afterlife Judgment because Christ has the “Keys” of “Hades” and “Death” setting free anyone even now after Justice or afterlife Judgment is served accordingly to some as the Verses below (from the Bible & Shepherd of Hermas Writing which is Scripture too as endorsed in First Christianity by St. Irenaeous) reads as follows:
“and the Living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore [to the ages of Ages**], and I have the keys of death and of Hades.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Revelation 1:18, NASB)
More reading:
Lake of Fire – Gehenna – Hell – If we are Judged till the Last Penny – Why need Christ?
Source Post:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/save-those-destroyed-or-perished/amp/
More Astounding Details from the best Theological kings in First Christianity, please consider:
Please note carefully that St. Melito of Sardis understood Lord Jesus Christ’s “… Descent into Hades (Hell)… ” to open up HOPE for ALL MANKIND Permanently and not for ‘Old Testament Jewish saints or some other Limited definitions as his own words above describe literally as it is Written’ (please read each word carefully to realize this Truth).
Now, who is this Jewish Bishop, St. Melito of Sardis?
Is his orthodoxy trustworthy?
Please consider, to quote:
“Melito of Sardis (Greek: Μελίτων Σάρδεων Melítōn Sárdeōn) (died c. 180) was the bishop of Sardis near Smyrna in western Anatolia, and a great authority in early Christianity. Melito held a foremost place in terms of Bishops in Asia due to his personal influence on Christianity and his literary works, most of which have been lost but of what has been recovered has provided a great insight into Christianity during the second century. Jerome, speaking of the Old Testament canon established by Melito, quotes Tertullian to the effect that he was esteemed as a prophet by many of the faithful… Little is known of his life outside what works are quoted or read by Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Eusebius. A letter of Polycrates of Ephesus to Pope Victor about 194 (Eusebius, Church History V.24) states that “Melito the eunuch [this is interpreted “the virgin” by Rufinus in his translation of Eusebius], whose whole walk was in the Holy Spirit”, was buried at Sardis.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melito_of_Sardis
A little more regarding the Legendary Prophet of God who is Anointed by His Holy Spirit, St. Melito of Sardis, to quote:
“… [a.d. 160-170-177.] Melito may have been the immediate successor of the “angel” (or “apostle”) of the church of Sardis, to whom our Great High Priest addressed one of the apocalyptic messages. He was an “Apostolic Father” in point of fact; he very probably knew the blessed Polycarp and his disciple Irenaeus. He is justly revered for the diligence with which he sought out the evidence which, in his day, established the Canon of the Old Testament, then just complete…”
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/melito.html
This First Christianity understanding that Lord Jesus Christ CAN SAVE from HADES or HELL ANYTIME toward ANYTIME is Well Established by the Best Theologians after these Orthodox Kings of Christianity, for example, to quote:
1) St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD)
“But how? Do not [the Scriptures] show that. the Lord preached the Gospel to those that perished in the flood, or rather had been chained, and to those kept “in ward and guard”? And it has been shown also, in the second book of the Stromata, that the apostles, following the Lord, preached the Gospel to those in Hades. For it was requisite, in my opinion, that as here, so also there, the best of the disciples should be imitators of the Master; so that He should bring to repentance those belonging to the Hebrews, and they the Gentiles; that is, those who had lived in righteousness according to the Law and Philosophy, who had ended life not perfectly, but sinfully. ” – St. Clement of Alexandria (Stromata, Book 6, Chapter VI)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
Two simple comments:
No Time-Space Limit nor other Limits of Christ Saving from Hades or from elsewhere
“it is evident that those, too, who were outside of the Law, having lived rightly, in consequence of the peculiar’ nature of the voice, though they are in Hades and in ward, on hearing the voice of the Lord, whether that of His own person or that acting through His apostles, with all speed turned and believed. For we remember that the Lord is “the power of God,” and power can never be weak. So I think it is demonstrated that the God being good, and the Lord powerful, they save with a righteousness and equality which extend to all that turn to Him, whether here or elsewhere. For it is not here alone that the active power of God is beforehand, but it is everywhere and is always at work.” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c.150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 6, Chapter VI)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
To Quote from the above ‘carefully’ in the ‘Context of Salvation from Hades at ANY TIME with NO LIMIT’
Phrases: ” though they are in Hades and in ward” —> “all that turn to Him, whether here or elsewhere” —> “on hearing the voice of the Lord, whether that of His own person or that acting through His apostles,” —> “with all speed turned and believed ” —–> and “the active power of God is beforehand, but it is everywhere and is always at work”.
No Time Limit for Salvation from Hades —–>
Focus Phrase from the above: “always at work”
No Physical nor any other limit for Christ Saving from Hades ——> Focus Phrase from the above: “everywhere and is always at work”.
Source:
Source Post:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/universal-salvation-and-faith-why-become-a-christian-now-to-be-saved/amp/
2) St. Athanasius the Great (c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD)
To quote:
This Universal Truth regarding ongoing Salvation and Deliverance from Hell (Hades/Sheol now) is Beautifully Described below too, to quote:
Christ Saves Sheepfold2 from “Hades” even ‘now’ (please note this word “Hades” carefully in the quote below):
“And if a man has gone down even to HADES, and stands awestruck before the heroes who have descended thither, regarding them as gods, still he may see the fact of Christ’s resurrection and His victory over death, and reason from it that, of all these, He alone is very Lord and God. For the Lord touched all parts of creation, and freed and undeceived them all from every deceit. As St. Paul says, “Having put off from Himself the principalities and the powers, He triumphed on the cross,”(Col. 2. 15) so that no one could possibly be any longer deceived, but everywhere might find the very Word of God. For thus man, enclosed on every side by the works of creation and everywhere-in heaven, in HADES, in men and on the earth, beholding the unfolded Godhead of the Word, is no longer deceived concerning God, but worships Christ alone, and through Him rightly knows the Father. On these grounds, then, of reason and of principle, we will fairly silence the Gentiles in their turn. But if they think these arguments insufficient to confute them, we will go on in the next chapter to prove our point from facts.” – St. Athanasius the Great, ‘father of orthodoxy’ (‘On the Incarnation’)
Translation Source:
https://www.worldinvisible.com/library/athanasius/incarnation/incarnation.7.htm
Please note that the post mortem evangelism in Hades may not be limited to ‘those who never heard the Gospel only’ as the original quotes by each of St. Justin Martyr, St. Clement of Alexandria and St. Athanasius shown here do NOT limit it to them only but toward anyone who has lived a relatively moral life by Christian Values though died unbelieving or sinfully.
Example:
Yes, such Gentiles who has encountered the Word of God in HADES end up believing in Him, and worships Christ (‘repentance in the afterlife context’).
Really?
Please read carefully from quote above again:
“… so that no one could possibly be any longer deceived, but everywhere might find the very Word of God. For thus man, enclosed on every side by the works of creation and everywhere-in heaven, in HADES, in men and on the earth, beholding the unfolded Godhead of the Word, is no longer deceived concerning God, but worships Christ alone, and through Him rightly knows the Father…” – St. Athanasius the Great
Focus on “Hades”, the quote above condensed:
“… For thus man, … in HADES, …, beholding the unfolded Godhead of the Word (John 6:40), is no longer deceived concerning God, but worships Christ alone, and through Him rightly knows the Father…” – St. Athanasius the Great
Source:
Hope?
It is also true that those in Hades (Sheepfold2 and the Wicked) must endure afterlife Judgment first (Hebrews 9:27) and only Sheepfold2 (relatively good non-Christians) will have the opportunity to repent in Hades now (in Principle of 1 Peter 3:18 – 19) and though the rest (the wicked) may be “judged in the flesh” (worst case scenario – post Resurrection of Judgment, John 5:29 ), they will still “live to God in their spirit-state” post the Final Lake of Fire or Gehenna Judgment (1 Peter 4:6) in the future “Day of Lord Jesus” (1 Corinthians 5:5).
Source Post:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/universal-salvation-and-faith-why-become-a-christian-now-to-be-saved/amp/
3) Conclusion of St. Melito’s Quote, St. Clement of Alexandria’s quote and St. Athanasius the Great’s quote in this Context from a Possible Orthodox Perspective, to quote:
Since Christ’s Descent, it is on going, to quote:
“Christ Leading All People out of Hell. Since earliest times, the Holy Fathers of the Church regarded the descent of Jesus to hell as an event so global and universal that it brought salvation not only to the righteous of the past but to all people in She’ol. St. Melito of Sardis speaks on behalf of Christ in his treatise on Pascha thus: “I am the one who destroyed death, and triumphed over the enemy, and trampled Hades under foot, and bound the strong one, and carried off man to the heights of heaven, I, he says, am the Christ. Therefore, come, all families of men, you who have been befouled with sins, and receive forgiveness for your sins. I am your forgiveness, I am the passover of your salvation, I am the lamb which was sacrificed for you, I am your ransom, I am your light, I am your saviour, I am your resurrection, I am your king, I am leading you up to the heights of heaven, I will show you the eternal Father, I will raise you up by my right hand” (On Pascha, 102-103). Interestingly enough, St. Melito insists that not just the holy men of the ancient Israel, but also all people without exception were saved. The faith of that ancient bishop was so strong that he couldn’t even think that anyone would choose to remain in hell instead of following Christ. The Stromata of Clement of Alexandria contain a fairly detailed teaching on the descent into hell. Clement also believed that Jesus had preached in hell not only for the righteous but for the heathens who had lived their lives out of reach of the true faith. God is impartial, so those people who hadn’t had the chance to believe in Christ when they walked the earth were given the chance to accept him after they died thanks to their virtuous life “in accordance with the law and in tune with philosophy”. (Stromata 6:6). Clement believed that the apostles, in keeping with their Teacher, descended into the hell and preached there. He views the Hell as a place of correction rather than punishment.”
Source:
The Death of Christ Destroyed Death and Hell and Released All Its Captives
The Visions of others such as Swedenborg to Sadhu Sundar Singh has proven that Christ Saves from Hell whenever a repentance occurs there as God Wills.
4) A Personal Conclusion – What’s my main Purpose of sharing this?
Some of my non-Christian friends may not believe in Lord Jesus Christ in this lifetime though I would gladly beg them to do so for their highest rewards in the afterlife by doing so now.
Despite being non-Christians, some of them have walked the extra mile financially especially during my financial distress now not even asking the big amounts which they have given to me so graciously. Some have even found Math Classes for me (they may think that these are small acts but nay, these are great for me – A Big Thank you to God for Helping through you!).
Therefore as apostle Paul prayed possibly that the Lord may have Mercy on the Soul of Onesiphorus who did him good after he had possibly died, I likewise pray for these friends (God knows who you are) that they “May be Saved from Hades or Hell after they die one day with the least Judgment Sentence possible”.
Note: This extension of the prayer for the dead to be Saved from the Lake of Fire toward the Wicked who are not Saved by the prayers above is what is depicted in the Sibyline Oracles, Apocalypse of Elijah and Apocalypse of Peter as described in links below too for further edification based on the ‘possible Reconciliation from the Lake of Fire Verse in Revelation 22:17’, to quote:
Hope Remains because what His righteous “ask many times”, they will get eventually according to these ancient Christian Prophecies regarding Salvation from the Lake of Fire (Gehenna) toward the Wicked eventually:
1) Apocalypse of Elijah
“Then the sinners [ in torment ] will see the place of the righteous. And thus GRACE WILL OCCUR. In THOSE DAYS, that which the RIGHTEOUS will ASK for MANY TIMES WILL BE GIVEN to them.” – Apocalypse of Elijah (Veses 28 – 29)
Source:
http://www.3-in-1.net/Pseudepigrapha/ApocalypseofElijah/TheApocalypseofElijah.htm
2) Apocalypse of Peter
From Page 535 of the ‘Lost Orthodoxy’ Book:
“There is a great deal more of the Ethiopic text, but it is very evidently of later date; the next words are: Next: ‘ The Father hath committed all judgement unto the Son.’ The destiny of sinners -their eternal [AGE-DURING] doom- is more than Peter can endure: he appeals to Christ to have pity on them. And my Lord answered me and said to me: ‘Hast thou understood that which I said unto thee before? It is permitted unto thee to know that concerning which thou askest: but thou must not tell that which thou hearest unto the sinners lest they transgress the more, and sin.’ Peter weeps many hours, and is at last consoled by an answer which, though exceedingly diffuse and vague does seem to promise ultimate pardon for all: ‘My Father will give unto them all the life, the glory, and the kingdom that passeth not away,’ . . . ‘It is because of them that have believed in Me that I am come. It is also because of them that have believed in Me, that, at their word, I shall have pity on men.’ The doctrine that sinners will be saved at last by the prayers of the righteous is, rather obscurely, enunciated in the Second Book of the Sibylline Oracles (a paraphrase, in this part, of the Apocalypse), and in the (Coptic) Apocalypse of Elias (see post). Ultimately Peter orders Clement to hide this revelation in a box, that foolish men may not see it. The passage in the Second Book of the Sibylline Oracles which seems to point to the ultimate salvation of all sinners will be found in the last lines of the translation given below.”
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apocalypsepeter-mrjames.html
3) Sibyline Oracles – apostle Paul & St. Justin Martyr told us to Read it (Proof and Sources in final link below at the end of the Write up):
To quote:
“… for a long day will God make.
And to the pious will the almighty God
405 Imperishable grant another thing,
When they shall ask the imperishable God:
That he will suffer men from raging fire
And endless gnawing anguish to be saved;
And this will he do. For hereafter he
410 Will pluck them from the restless flame, elsewhere
Remove them, and for his own people’s sake
Send them to other and eternal life
With the immortals, in Elysian field,” (Sibyline Oracles, Book II, 297-322, p. 51)
Translation Source:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/sib/sib04.htm
Source – Detailed Post:
Lake of Fire – Hope for the Wicked One Day? [Updated 19 Dec 2019]
Peace to you
Water of Life – Free for All – Unselfishness of God
To quote some relevant parts from an earlier Post for Edification regarding this Mystery:
John 5:22, John 8:15, Luke 23:34, John 12:47 and He Allows the Judgment-part as our choice (the ‘other in John 12:48’) as we decide (John 20:23) and angels decide (Hebrews 2:2) till we forgive too like Him eventually calling the “thirsty-wicked” back from the Lake of Fire too as this is Prophesied to be Done by “His Bride” (Perfected, Christians, His Church) together with Him in the End (Revelation 22:17) as Prophesied also by the Christian-Sibyline Oracles, Apocalypse of Peter, Apocalypse of Elijah and even some ancient variant manuscripts.
Reconciliation from the Lake of Fire (Colossians 1:20) toward ‘All Created things’ (Colossians 1:16) too in the end (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28, 1 Timothy 2:6):
“And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.” – apostle John (Revelations 22:17, NKJV)
where
The Spirit = God
The Bride = Christians
“who thirsts” = anyone who is not yet reconciled to God (e. g. Those in the Lake of Fire, as Fire makes them thirsty)
Free = Free Justification eventually toward “All” as Promised in Holy Scripture by the “Faith of Jesus Christ” (Romans 3:22) or the ‘Faith of God’ (Romans 3:3) which never Fails (seen only in accurate word to word translations, Romans 3:4)
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Note: This extension of the prayer for the dead to be Saved from the Lake of Fire toward the Wicked who are not Saved by the prayers above is what is depicted in the Sibyline Oracles, Apocalypse of Elijah and Apocalypse of Peter as described in links below too for further edification based on the ‘possible Reconciliation from the Lake of Fire Verse in Revelation 22:17’, to quote:
Hope Remains because what His righteous “ask many times”, they will get eventually according to these ancient Christian Prophecies regarding Salvation from the Lake of Fire (Gehenna) toward the Wicked eventually:
1) Apocalypse of Elijah
“Then the sinners [ in torment ] will see the place of the righteous. And thus GRACE WILL OCCUR. In THOSE DAYS, that which the RIGHTEOUS will ASK for MANY TIMES WILL BE GIVEN to them.” – Apocalypse of Elijah (Veses 28 – 29)
Source:
http://www.3-in-1.net/Pseudepigrapha/ApocalypseofElijah/TheApocalypseofElijah.htm
2) Apocalypse of Peter
From Page 535 of the ‘Lost Orthodoxy’ Book:
“There is a great deal more of the Ethiopic text, but it is very evidently of later date; the next words are: Next: ‘ The Father hath committed all judgement unto the Son.’ The destiny of sinners -their eternal [AGE-DURING] doom- is more than Peter can endure: he appeals to Christ to have pity on them. And my Lord answered me and said to me: ‘Hast thou understood that which I said unto thee before? It is permitted unto thee to know that concerning which thou askest: but thou must not tell that which thou hearest unto the sinners lest they transgress the more, and sin.’ Peter weeps many hours, and is at last consoled by an answer which, though exceedingly diffuse and vague does seem to promise ultimate pardon for all: ‘My Father will give unto them all the life, the glory, and the kingdom that passeth not away,’ . . . ‘It is because of them that have believed in Me that I am come. It is also because of them that have believed in Me, that, at their word, I shall have pity on men.’ The doctrine that sinners will be saved at last by the prayers of the righteous is, rather obscurely, enunciated in the Second Book of the Sibylline Oracles (a paraphrase, in this part, of the Apocalypse), and in the (Coptic) Apocalypse of Elias (see post). Ultimately Peter orders Clement to hide this revelation in a box, that foolish men may not see it. The passage in the Second Book of the Sibylline Oracles which seems to point to the ultimate salvation of all sinners will be found in the last lines of the translation given below.”
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apocalypsepeter-mrjames.html
3) Sibyline Oracles – apostle Paul & St. Justin Martyr told us to Read it (Proof and Sources in final link below at the end of the Write up):
To quote:
“… for a long day will God make.
And to the pious will the almighty God
405 Imperishable grant another thing,
When they shall ask the imperishable God:
That he will suffer men from raging fire
And endless gnawing anguish to be saved;
And this will he do. For hereafter he
410 Will pluck them from the restless flame, elsewhere
Remove them, and for his own people’s sake
Send them to other and eternal life
With the immortals, in Elysian field,” (Sibyline Oracles, Book II, 297-322, p. 51)
Translation Source:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/sib/sib04.htm
Source and Detailed Post:
Lake of Fire – Hope for the Wicked One Day? [Updated 17 Dec 2019]
This is the Greatest Hope of Unconditional Love in Christ Centered Universalism where as George MacDonald put it, ‘I believe that All Men will eventually be Gathered in the Love of God’.
Yes, only through Lord Jesus Christ as He is the only Way of Salvation, none other. Neither we nor the lost find Him. In fact, Lord Jesus Christ finds us till we (Christians) are found on earth itself while the rest of mankind are found by Him and Saved in the afterlife regions eventually as these Ancient Mainstream First Christianity Prophecies Testify Beautifully post Afterlife Judgment even.
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“… There can be Miracles if you believe… ”
Here’s a Forgotten Well Established Orthodox Example in Church History:
i. St. Gregory Thaumaturgus or Gregory the Miracle-Worker
After the time of the apostles, one of the Christian Bishop whom God used to perform Great & Many Miracles was someone who ‘believed and/or admired Christ Centered Universalism theories of Origen of Alexandria’, to quote regarding “Saint Gregory Thaumaturgus or Gregory the Miracle-Worker”:
“… St. Gregory Thaumaturgus or Gregory the Miracle-Worker … c. 213 AD – c. 270 AD… also known as Gregory of Neocaesarea, was a Christian bishop of the 3rd century. He has been canonized as a saint in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches… Drawing on family traditions and a knowledge of the neighbourhood, the account by Gregory of Nyssa is more reliably historical than other known versions of the Thaumaturge’s life. By the time of Rufinus (ca. 400), the original story was becoming confused; the Syriac account is at times obscure and contradictory. Even the life by Gregory of Nyssa exhibits a legendary element, though the facts were supplied to the writer by his grandmother, St. Macrina the Elder. He relates that before his episcopal consecration Gregory retired from Neocaesarea into a solitude, and was favoured by an apparition of the Blessed Virgin and John the Apostle, and that the latter dictated to him a creed or formula of Christian faith, of which the autograph existed at Neocaesarea when the biography was being written. The creed itself is important for the history of Christian doctrine.[3]. Gregory of Nyssa describes at length the miracles that gained for the Bishop of Caesarea the title of Thaumaturgus. It is clear that Gregory’s influence must have been considerable, and his miraculous power undoubted. It might have been expected that Gregory’s name would appear among those who took part in the First Council of Antioch against Paul of Samosata.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Thaumaturgus
ii. St. Gregory Thaumaturgus or Gregory the Miracle-Worker Defended the Christ Centered Universalism part Belief which Origen of Alexandria got right in Principle
To quote:
” … Origen’s position, abilities, and untiring efforts for the spread of the Gospel gave him great influence with his pupils, and with the Church at large, in whose behalf he became a voluminous writer. In addition to his position and work in the school of Alexandria, he also had care for several years, in connection with Pamphilius, of the theological school at Caesarea, one of whose distinguished pupils was the celebrated Gregory Thaumaturgus, a great admirer of his master’s theories, and finally, about A.D. 235, his strong defender land ardent eulogist…”
Continued… Other Great First Christianity Defenders of Christ Centered Universalism:
“… Pamphilius, and Eusebius, the first Church historian, also defended Origen’s doctrines from charges brought against them by the Western Church, and in answering the complaint that he denied all future punishment they quote from his writings in contradiction thereof, not only his positive assurances of future and severe punishment, but his equally positive assertion that such correction is purifying and salutary….”
“… In A.D. 364, Titus, bishop of Bostra, wrote in advocacy of Universalism, contending that, although there are torments in the abyss of hell, they are not eternal, but that their great severity will lead the wicked to repentance and so to salvation…”
“… Gregory of Nyssa, A.D. 380, also advocated Universalism on the same grounds. Contemporary with him was the justly celebrated defender of orthodoxy, Didymus the Blind, a successor of Origen in the school at Alexandria, and a zealous Universalist. Prominent among his scholars was Jerome, eminent alike for his abilities, his inconsistencies, and instability. Universalism as taught by Origen is clearly and ably set forth by Jerome in his commentaries on the epistles, and in his letters…”
“… John, bishop of Jerusalem at this period, was also an advocate of Universalism on Origen’s theory. Another contemporary, Diodorus, a teacher of great repute in the school at Antioch, and afterwards bishop of Jerusalem, was also a Universalist, who, in opposition to the then general prevalence of allegorical interpretation, strictly adhered to the natural import of the text in his many commentaries on the Scriptures. He defended Universalism on the ground that the divine mercy far exceeds all the effects and all the deserts of sin. His pupil and successor in the school, Theodore of Mopsuestia, A.D. 420, called “the crown and climax of the school of Antioch,” and by the Nestorians, whose sect he founded, “the interpreter of the Word of God,” and whose writings were text-books in the schools of Eastern Syria, was a prominent and influential Universalist…”
Source:
https://www.biblicalcyclopedia.com/U/universalism-(2).html
Peace to you
Antichrist – Let no man Deceive you
1) Don’t be Deceived by Miracles, Signs and Wonders as the ‘best deception involves doing good’.
To quote from an ancient prophecy (which also contains the hope of Universal Pardon from the Lake of Fire as quoted in the earlier write ups after all these mess are over) regarding the “Antichrist = Son of Lawlessness”, please consider the following from the ‘same Apocalypse of Elijah manuscript’ (c. 250 AD – c. 350 AD):
“… 5.But the son of lawlessness will begin to stand again in the holy places.
6.He will say to the sun, “Fall,” and it will fall.
He will say, “Shine,” and it will do it.
He will say, “Darken,” and it will do it.
7.He will say to the moon, “Become bloody,” and it will do it.
8.He will go forth with them from the sky.
He will walk upon the sea and the rivers as upon dry land.
9.He will cause the lame to walk.
He will cause the deaf to hear.
He will cause the dumb to speak.
He will cause the blind to see.
10.The lepers he will cleanse.
The ill he will heal.
The demons he will cast out.
11.He will multiply his signs and his wonders in the presence of everyone.
12.He will do the works which the Christ did, except for raising the dead alone.
13.In this you will know that he is the son of lawlessness, because he is unable to give life.
14.For behold I will tell you his signs so that you might know him.
15.He is a …of a skinny-legged young lad, having a tuft of gray hair at the front of his bald head. His eyebrows will reach to his ears. There is a leprous bare spot on the front of his hands.
16.He will transform himself in the presence of those who see him. He will become a young child. He will become old.
17.He will transform himself in every sign. But the signs of his head will not be able to change.
18.Therin you will know that he is the son of lawlessness…” – Apocalypse of Elijah
Source:
http://www.3-in-1.net/Pseudepigrapha/ApocalypseofElijah/TheApocalypseofElijah.htm
2) The Missing Sign
“… 30.The sixty righteous ones who are prepared for this hour will hear.
31.And they will gird on the breastplate of YHWH, and they will run to Jerusalem and fight with the shameless one, saying, “All powers which the prophets have done from the beginning you have done. But you were unable to raise the dead because you have no power to give life. Therein we have known that you are the son of lawlessness.”
32.He will hear, and he will be angry and command to kindle altars
33.And the righteous ones will be bound. They will be lifted up and burned.
1.And on that day the heart of many will harden and they will flee from him, saying, “This is not the Christ. The Christ does not kill the righteous. He does not pursue men so that he might seek them, but He persuades them with signs and wonders…”
Source:
http://www.3-in-1.net/Pseudepigrapha/ApocalypseofElijah/TheApocalypseofElijah.htm
Explanation:
The Antichrist cannot raise the dead. First Christianity clearly teaches in accordance to Revelation 20:4 – 6 that when Lord Jesus Christ Returns the First Resurrection of All Christians must occur and Reign with Him visibly for a thousand years and that’s why in the quote above we see that the Antichrist will get angry when this Truth is Revealed & will begin killing those saints who reveal it after which his cover is blown & the last three and a half days (or 3 and a half years) of tribulation will follow before the Glorious Return of our Most Blessed Messiah, Lord Jesus Christ Who will put an end to all these.
To quote:
i. The True Messiah’s Return must be followed by the First Resurrection of the Dead and His 1000 years Millennial Reign with all Christians
To quote:
“But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.” – St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho)
“I am not so miserable a fellow, Trypho, as to say one thing and think another. I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion, and[believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise. Moreover, I pointed out to you that some who are called Christians, but are godless, impious heretics, teach doctrines that are in every way blasphemous, atheistical, and foolish. But that you may know that I do not say this before you alone, I shall draw up a statement, so far as I can, of all the arguments which have passed between us; in which I shall record myself as admitting the very same things which I admit to you. For I choose to follow not men or men’s doctrines, but God and the doctrines[delivered] by Him.” – St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
St. Justin Martyr was in the midst of the Prebysters and companions who walked with the Apostles of Christ himself, to quote (please note the phrase ‘a man among us’ carefully to realize this in his own words):
“… And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal [AGE-DURING] resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, ‘They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.’…” – St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER LXXXI, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Another Edifying Quote of this same Definition referring to the First Resurrection and 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ (Revelation 20:4 – 6, Luke 20:35 – 36, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18):
“But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy Spirit. For if it had been declared by Him, he (Antichrist) might perhaps continue for a long period. But now as “he was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the abyss, and goes into perdition,” as one who has no existence; so neither has his name been declared, for the name of that which does not exist is not proclaimed. But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that “many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book V)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
ii. Lord Jesus Christ’s Return Described Briefly here
“… 1.In the fourth year of that king, the son of lawlessness will appear, saying, “I am the Christ,” although he is not. Don’t believe him!
2.When the Christ comes, He will come in the manner of a covey of doves with the crown of doves surrounding Him. He will walk upon the heaven’s vaults with the sign of the cross leading Him.
3.The whole world will behold Him like the sun which shines from the eastern horizon to the western.
4.This is how He will come, with all his angels surrounding Him…”
Source:
http://www.3-in-1.net/Pseudepigrapha/ApocalypseofElijah/TheApocalypseofElijah.htm
Let us be aware and not be deceived when it comes to pass be it in our lifetime or in the future.
P/S: The Universal Salvation Hope from the Lake of Fire after all these mess
To quote (from this same ancient manuscript/source):
“… .A true judgment will occur.
25.On that day, the mountains and the earth will utter speech. The byways will speak with one another, saying, “Have you heard today the voice of a man who walks who has not come to the judgment of the Son of YHWH.”
26.The sins of each one will stand against him in the place where they were committed, whether those of the day or of the night.
27.Those who belong to the righteous and … will see the sinners and those who persecuted them and those who handed them over to death in their torments.
28.Then the sinners [ in torment ] will see the place of the righteous.
29.And thus grace will occur. In those days, that which the righteous will ask for many times will be given to them…”
Source:
http://www.3-in-1.net/Pseudepigrapha/ApocalypseofElijah/TheApocalypseofElijah.htm
Peace to you
Mercy on NOT His People – Book of the Bee Mystery
Verses: Hosea 2:23 (in Image) and even Romans 11:32’s ‘Mercy on All the Disobedient (NASB) or All in unbelief too (KJV)’ is Prophesied or Promised in Holy Scripture to Triumph over Judgment eventually (James 2:13).
Please allow me to introduce an ancient Christian Writing known as the Book of the Bee as follows:
1) What is the Book of the Bee?
“The Book of the Bee is an historical theological compilation containing numerous Biblical legends. It was written by Solomon of Akhlat, a Syrian Nestorian Bishop of Bassora (Basrah) around 1222. It is written in Syriac … The Book of the Bee is a collection of theological and historical texts compiled by Solomon of Akhlat in the thirteenth century. The book consists of 55 chapters discussing various topics including the creation, heaven and earth, the angels, darkness, paradise, Old Testament patriarchs, New Testament events, lists of kings and patriarchs, and the final day of resurrection.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_the_Bee
2) Is the Christ Centered Universalism Content from the Book of the Bee authentic and according to whom?
To quote:
“Giuseppe Simone Assemani (Arabic: يوسف بن سمعان السمعاني Yusuf ibn Siman as-Simani, English: Joseph Simon Assemani, Latin: Ioseph Simonius Assemanus), was born on July 27, 1687 in Hasroun, Lebanon and died on January 13, 1768 in Rome. Assemani was a librarian, Lebanese orientalist and Maronite eparch. For his efforts, and his encyclopedic knowledge, he earned the nickname “The Great Assemani”. … When appointed librarian of the Vatican library he instantly began to carry into execution most extensive plans for editing and publishing the most valuable manuscript treasures of the Vatican.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Simone_Assemani
He endorses the ancient Bishop Diodore*’s Infamous Universalim quote as it is found in the Book of the Bee as follows, to quote:
“Diodorus according to Joseph Simon Assemani Bibliotheca Orientalis (1728)
— “For the wicked there are punishments, not perpetual, however, lest the immortality prepared for them should be a disadvantage, but they are to be purified for a brief period according to the amount of malice in their works. They shall therefore suffer punishment for a short space, but immortal blessedness having no end awaits them, the penalties to be inflicted for their many and grave sins are very far surpassed by the magnitude of the mercy to be showed them. The resurrection, therefore, is regarded as a blessing not only to the good, but also to the evil.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diodorus_of_Tarsus
*Who is Bishop Diodore of Tarsus? Please note carefully that his “Nestorianism views” (if true) were condemned and NOT his Christ Centered Universalism Belief (an often ‘missed’ but noteworthy point), to quote:
“The Christology of Diodore was condemned as heretical by later generations, most explicitly at a local synod in Constantinople in 499 which described Diodore’s views as Nestorian.[9] Certainly, a similarly negative view of Diodore was held by Cyril of Alexandria. However, in his own generation Diodore was seen as someone who supported the orthodoxy of Nicaea, and in his official decree ratifying the actions of the First Council of Constantinople, Emperor Theodosius I described Diodore as a “champion of the faith.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diodorus_of_Tarsus
3) How does the Book of the Bee describe the “Aeonian (Olam, Age-during) Chastisement” in Matthew 25:46?
To quote:
“… But if punishment is to be weighed out according to sin, not even so would punishment be endless. For as regards that which is said in the Gospel, ‘These shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal4;’ this word ‘eternal’ (le-`âlam) is not definite: for if it be not so, how did Peter say to our Lord, ‘Thou shalt never wash my feet5,’ and yet He washed him? And of Babylon He said, ‘No man shall dwell therein for ever and ever6,’ and behold many generations dwell therein. In the ‘Book of Memorials’ he says: ‘I hold what the most celebrated of the holy Fathers say, that He cuts off a little from much. The penalty of Gehenna is a man’s mind; for the punishment p. 142 there is of two kinds, that of the body and that of the mind. That of the body is perhaps in proportion to the degree of sin, and He lessens and diminishes its duration; but that of the mind is for ever, and the judgment is for ever.’ But in the New Testament le-`âlam is not without end. To Him be glory and dominion and praise and exaltation and honour for ever and ever. Amen and Amen.” (Chapter LX, Book of the Bee)
Source:
https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bb/bb60.htm
4) How is the Punishment of the Lake of Fire (Gehenna, Revelation 20:15) Described?
“And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:15, NASB)
Fine Details, to quote:
“IT is right for us to know and explain how those suffer, who suffer in Gehenna. If they do suffer, how can we say that they are impassible? and if they do not suffer, then there is no torture for sinners; and if there be no torture for sinners in proportion to their sins, neither can there be happiness for the righteous as a reward for their labours. The suffering wherewith the Fathers say that sinners will suffer in Gehenna is not one that will pain the limbs, such as the blows of sticks, the mutilation of the flesh, and the breaking of the bones, but one that will afflict the soul, such as grief for the transgression of what is right, repentance for shameful deeds, and banishment from one to whom he is bound in love and for whom his affection is strong. For in the resurrection we shall not be without perception, like the sun which perceives not his splendour, nor the moon her brilliancy, nor the pearl its beauty; but by the power of reason we shall feel perfectly the delight of our happiness or the keen pain of our torture. So then by that which enables the righteous to perceive the pleasure of their happiness, by that selfsame thing will the wicked also perceive the suffering of their torment; (that is) by the power capable of receiving pleasure, which is the intelligence. Hence it is right for us to be certain that intelligence will not be taken p. 138 away from us, but it will receive the utmost purification and refinement…” (Chapter LIX, Book of the Bee)
Source:
https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bb/bb59.htm
5) Christ Centered Universalism in the Book of the Bee as the Final Destiny of All Men including the Wicked too
To quote:
i. St. Isaac the Syrian
“… Mâr Isaac says thus: ‘Those who are to be scourged in Gehenna will be tortured with stripes of p. 140 love; they who feel that they have sinned against love will suffer harder and more severe pangs from love than the pain that springs from fear.’ Again he says: ‘The recompense of sinners will be this: the resurrection itself will be their recompense instead of the recompense of justice; and at the last He will clothe those bodies which have trodden down His laws with the glory of perfection. This act of grace to us after we have sinned is greater than that which, when we were not, brought our nature into being.’ Again he says: ‘In the world which is to come grace will be the judge and not justice.’…” (Chapter LX, Book of the Bee)
Source:
https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bb/bb60.htm
ii. Bishop Theodore of Mopsuestia
“… Mâr Theodore the Expositor says: ‘Those who have here chosen fair things will receive in the world to come the pleasure of good things with praises; but the wicked who have turned aside to evil things all their life, when they are become ordered in their minds by penalties and the fear that springs from them, and choose good things, and learn how much they have sinned by having persevered in evil things and not in good things, and by means of these things receive the knowledge of the highest doctrine of the fear of God, and become instructed to lay hold of it with a good will, will be deemed worthy of the happiness of the Divine liberality. For He would never have said, “Until thou payest the uttermost farthing,” unless it had been possible for us to be freed from our sins through having atoned for them by paying the penalty; neither would He have said, “he shall be beaten with many stripes,” or “he shall be beaten with few stripes,” unless it were that the penalties, being meted out according to the sins, should finally come to an end.’ These things the Expositor has handed down in his books clearly and distinctly…” (Chapter LX, Book of the Bee)
Source:
https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bb/bb60.htm
iii. Bishop Diodore of Tarsus
“… So also the blessed Diodorus, who says in the ‘Book of the Dispensation1:’ ‘A lasting reward, which is worthy of the justice of the Giver, is laid up for the good, in return for their labours; and torment for sinners, but not everlasting, that the immortality which is prepared for them may not be worthless. They must however be tormented for a short time, as they deserve, in proportion to the measure of their iniquity and wickedness, according to the amount of the wickedness of their deeds. This they will have to bear, that they suffer for a short time; but immortal and unending happiness is prepared for them. If it be then p. 141 that the rewards of good deeds are as great (in proportion to them) as the times of the immortality which are prepared for them are longer than the times of the limited contests which take place in this world, the torments for many and great sins must be very much less than the greatness of mercy. So then it is not for the good only that the grace of the resurrection from the dead is intended, but also for the wicked; for the grace of God greatly honours the good, but chastises the wicked sparingly.’
Again he says: ‘God pours out the wages of reward beyond the measure of the labours (wrought), and in the abundance of His goodness He lessens and diminishes the penalty of those who are to be tormented, and in His mercy He shortens and reduces the length of the time. But even thus He does not punish the whole time according to (the length of) the time of folly, seeing that He requites them far less than they deserve, just as He does the good beyond the measure and period (of their deserts); for the reward is everlasting. It has not been revealed whether the goodness of God wishes to punish without ceasing the blameworthy who have been found guilty of evil deeds (or not), as we have already said before…” (Chapter LX, Book of the Bee)
Source:
https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bb/bb60.htm
Conclusion
These great Christian theologians may have believed say the Nestorianism heresy wrongly but in regards to the Lake of Fire and the Future Judgment, they may have gotten it right because in this aspect, the Book of the Bee may actually just be quoting ancient Christian beliefs regarding this without much (or any) alterations in principle which is evidenced likewise hundreds of years earlier say in the Sibyline Oracles or even the early church father’s quotes (e. g. St. Justin Martyr, St. Irenaeous of Lyons, St. Clement of Alexandria) as I have demonstrated prior in full detail in Post below for edification regarding this, please consider:
Lake of Fire – Hope for the Wicked One Day? [Updated 17 Dec 2019]
Peace to you
Dog-Love vs God-Love
Explanation for such popular equivalent quotes in image:
If that same dog was raised well by a serial killer or a pedophile, the dog would love them the same too.
My point?
The dog doesn’t have a sense of right or wrong but instincts and hence would not be able to determine that its owner is an evil person in such cases either.
So, it’s obvious that people love dogs which love them unconditionally because it doesn’t judge them. Actually this is inaccurate since a dog doesn’t have the ability to judge whether an owner is say a serial killer, rapist or a pedophile even.
Such a Love may feel nice but it’s misplaced and far from perfect. A perfect love is only capable via rational beings who first must have the sane ability to determine right from wrong according to one’s own morality.
To Love a person even when they are wrong is the True Unconditional love as the Infamous “Love your enemies” phrase means which is the True Heart ♥ of Spiritual Perfection.
Conclusion
Treat your pet animals well as it’s a way of the righteous to do so but more so, please love your fellow human beings more*:
“A righteous man regards the life of his animal, But the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.” (Proverbs 12:10, NASB)
*Many find it easy to love dogs and hate their enemies especially when their enemies are wrong. For example, they ill treat and pay low wages to the foreign workers, they are racists within & without, they exploit and use others for their benefits, some even deceive and marry rich spouses to live off their money pretending to love them… and the list goes on… However, the ability to Love your enemies instead of hate your enemy is the True Mark of Christian Perfection in the Agape (Love) of God, to quote:
“You have heard that it was said, … HATE YOUR ENEMY… But I say to you, LOVE YOUR ENEMIES …” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:43 – 44, NASB)
Please read this last Verse and note the opposite phrases ‘HATE YOUR ENEMY’ (as even some preachers wrongly quote Old Testament Verses preaching this) while it is CHRIST HIMSELF Who CANCELS or NULLIFIES it by saying “But I say to you, LOVE YOUR ENEMIES”.
Can you REALLY see it?
Whom are we going to OBEY?
Do NOT obey what God has Cancelled.
Let us Remember and Act likewise as Christians.
“How much one Loves God is reflected by how much one loves others including their enemies” – Anonymous
A haunting question below:
“But whoever has the world’s goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?” – apostle John (1 John 3:17, NASB)
Peace to you
Heartfelt – Origen of Alexandria
‘… Some heroes of the faith transcend across all denominations & have touched them all either directly or indirectly … ‘
Origen did have a few theological errors such as contemplating the transmigration of souls doctrine but it is interesting to note that “Christ Centered Universalism among others were not condemned such as the case of St. Gregory of Nyssa” but the ‘false out of Scripture premises he sometimes was claimed to have based it upon’.
The opinion of the later Christian councils to first condemn Christ Centered Universalism (after 500 AD) are meaningless as even St. Basil the Great’s brother St. Gregory of Nyssa was a Universalist Christian who was never condemned by his brother nor any orthodox persons and St. Augustine of Hippo himself (the champion of eternal hell theory) did not condemn those who believed in it as heretics but called them ‘tender hearted, not opposed to Holy Scripture Christians’ as I pointed in earlier posts too.
It was not always this way as Origen taught and did write many deep theological truths regarding the Context of Christ Centered Universalism to other topics as well each “rightly in accordance with Holy Scripture”.
The Quote in image fits perfectly upon him because his zeal for Lord Jesus Christ may be more than all of us counted relatively in percentage and measure in which we are given. Why do I say so?
Please consider these brief but amazing details regarding his life especially if you have never heard about it:
1) Seeked Martyrdom for Christ from a young age
To quote:
“… Born in 185, Origen was barely seventeen when a bloody persecution of the Church of Alexandria broke out. His father Leonides, who admired his precocious genius was charmed with his virtuous life, had given him an excellent literary education. When Leonides was cast into prison, Origen would fain have shared his lot, but being unable to carry out his resolution, as his mother had hidden his clothes, he wrote an ardent, enthusiastic letter to his father exhorting him to persevere courageously. When Leonides had won the martyr’s crown and his fortune had been confiscated by the imperial authorities, the heroic child laboured to support himself, his mother, and his six younger brothers…”
Source:
http://catholicencyclopedia.newadvent.com/cathen/11306b.htm
2) Roman Catholic Church
Even the Roman Catholic Church’s Best feel his Zeal for the Gospel, to quote:
“… Origen, most modest of writers, hardly ever alludes to himself in his own works; but Eusebius has devoted to him almost the entire sixth book of “Ecclesiastical History”. Eusebius was thoroughly acquainted with the life of his hero; he had collected a hundred of his letters; in collaboration with the martyr Pamphilus he had composed the “Apology for Origen”; he dwelt at Caesarea where Origen’s library was preserved, and where his memory still lingered; if at times he may be thought somewhat partial, he is undoubtedly well informed. We find some details also in the “Farewell Address” of St. Gregory Thaumaturgus to his master, in the controversies of St. Jerome and Rufinus, in St. Epiphanius (Haeres., LXIV), and in Photius (Biblioth. Cod. 118)… ”
Source:
http://catholicencyclopedia.newadvent.com/cathen/11306b.htm
3) Demetrius Bishop of Alexandria was jealous of him and brought him down as St. Jerome of the Vulgate himself points that Origen was not renounced for Doctrine
To quote:
“… into Greece, passing through Caesarea where Theoctistus, Bishop of that city, assisted by Alexander, Bishop of Jerusalem, raised him to the priesthood. Demetrius, although he had given letters of recommendation to Origen, was very much offended by this ordination, which had taken place without his knowledge and, as he thought, in derogation of his rights. If Eusebius (VI, viii) is to be believed, he was envious of the increasing influence of his catechist. So, on his return to Alexandria, Origen soon perceived that his bishop was rather unfriendly towards him. He yielded to the storm and quitted Egypt (231). The details of this affair were recorded by Eusebius in the lost second book of the “Apology for Origen”; according to Photius, who had read the work, two councils were held at Alexandria, one of which pronounced a decree of banishment against Origen while the other deposed him from the priesthood (Biblioth. cod. 118). St. Jerome declares expressly that he was not condemned on a point of doctrine…”
Source:
http://catholicencyclopedia.newadvent.com/cathen/11306b.htm
4) Origen’s Doctrine even Touched the Heart of the Miracle-Worker St. Gregory
To quote:
“… Expelled from Alexandria, Origen fixed his abode at Caesarea in Palestine (232), with his protector and friend Theoctistus, founded a new school there, and resumed his “Commentary on St. John” at the point where it had been interrupted. He was soon surrounded by pupils. The most distinguished of these, without doubt, was St. Gregory Thaumaturgus who, with his brother Apollodorus, attended Origen’s lectures for five years and delivered on leaving him a celebrated “Farewell Address”…”
Source:
http://catholicencyclopedia.newadvent.com/cathen/11306b.htm
5) Origen died tortured and martyred as an Eunuch believing in Christ Centered Universalism with full honors as a Confessor of the Faith by the acknowledgement of the Best Christians of that Era – Selflessness to the Maximum
Slanderers only spoke & made up new lies after he had died, to quote:
“… The persecution of Decius (250) prevented him from continuing these works. Origen was imprisoned and barbarously tortured, but his courage was unshaken and from his prison he wrote letters breathing the spirit of the martyrs (Eusebius, Church History VI.39). He was still alive on the death of Decius (251), but only lingering on, and he died, probably, from the results of the sufferings endured during the persecution (253 or 254), at the age of sixty-nine (Eusebius, Church History VII.1). His last days were spent at Tyr, though his reason for retiring thither is unknown. He was buried with honour as a confessor of the Faith. For a long time his sepulchre, behind the high-altar of the cathedral of Tyr, was visited by pilgrims…”
Source:
http://catholicencyclopedia.newadvent.com/cathen/11306b.htm
6) Origen touched the hearts 💕 of the subsequent princes of Christian Theology from Rome to Alexandria (please take note that almost all the biggest Saints in all of Eastern Orthodox & Roman Catholicism or beyond are listed here)
To quote (briefly):
Origen of Alexandria influenced:
“… Influenced Athanasius, Rufinus, John of Jerusalem, Dionysius of Alexandria, Basil, Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory of Nazianzus, Arius of Alexandria, Theophilus of Alexandria, Maximus, John Scotus Eriugena, Erasmus, Henry More, Pope Benedict XVI…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen#
To quote albeit in detail:
“… During his lifetime Origen by his writings, teaching, and intercourse exercised very great influence. St. Firmilian of Caesarea in Cappadocia, who regarded himself as his disciple, made him remain with him for a long period to profit by his learning (Eusebius, Church History VI.26; Palladius, “Hist. Laus.”, 147). St. Alexander of Jerusalem his fellow pupil at the catechetical school was his intimate faithful friend (Eusebius, VI, xiv), as was Theoctistus of Caesarea in Palestine, who ordained him (Photius, cod. 118). Beryllus of Bostra, whom he had won back from heresy, was deeply attached to him (Eusebius, VI, xxxiii; St. Jerome, Illustrious Men 60). St. Anatolus of Laodicea sang his praises in his “Carmen Paschale” (P.G., X, 210). The learned Julius Africanus consulted him, Origen’s reply being extant (P.G., XI, 41-85). St. Hippolytus highly appreciated his talents (St. Jerome, Illustrious Men 61). St. Dionysius, his pupil and successor in the catechetical school, when Patriarch of Alexandria, dedicated to him his treatise “On the Persecution” (Eusebius, VI, xlvi), and on learning of his death wrote a letter filled with his praises (Photius, cod. 232). St. Gregory Thaumaturgus, who had been his pupil for five years at Caesarea, before leaving addressed to him his celebrated “Farewell Address” (P.G., X, 1049-1104), an enthusiastic panegyric. There is no proof that Heracles, his disciple, colleague, and successor in the catechetical school, before being raised to the Patriarchate of Alexandria, wavered in his sworn friendship. Origen’s name was so highly esteemed that when there was a question of putting an end to a schism or rooting out a heresy, appeal was made to it.
After his death his reputation continued to spread. St. Pamphilus, martyred in 307, composes with Eusebius an “Apology for Origen” in six books the first alone of which has been preserved in a Latin translation by Rufinus (P.G., XVII, 541-616). Origen had at that time many other apologists whose names are unknown to us (Photius, cod. 117 and 118). The directors of the catechetical school continued to walk in his footsteps. Theognostus, in his “Hypotyposes”, followed him even too closely, according to Photius (cod. 106), though his action was approved by St. Athanasius. Pierius was called by St. Jerome “Origenes junior” (Illustrious Men 76). Didymus the Blind composed a work to explain and justify the teaching of the “De principiis” (St. Jerome, “Adv. Rufin.”, I, vi). St. Athanasius does not hesitate to cite him with praise (Epist. IV ad Serapion., 9 and 10) and points out that he must be interpreted generously (De decretis Nic., 27).
Nor was the admiration for the great Alexandrian less outside of Egypt. St. Gregory of Nazianzus gave significant expression to his opinion (Suidas, “Lexicon”, ed. Bernhardy, II, 1274: Origenes he panton hemon achone). In collaboration with St. Basil, he had published, under the title “Philocalia”, a volume of selections from the master. In his “Panegyric on St. Gregory Thaumaturgus”, St. Gregory of Nyssa called Origen the prince of Christian learning in the third century (P.G., XLVI, 905). At Caesarea in Palestine the admiration of the learned for Origen became a passion. St. Pamphilus wrote his “Apology”, Euzoius had his writings transcribed on parchment (St. Jerome, Illustrious Men 93). Eusebius catalogued them carefully and drew upon them largely. Nor were the Latins less enthusiastic than the Greeks. According to St. Jerome, the principal Latin imitators of Origen are St. Eusebius of Verceil, St. Hilary of Poitiers, and St. Ambrose of Milan; St. Victorinus of Pettau had set them the example (St. Jerome, “Adv. Rufin.”, I, ii; “Ad Augustin. Epist.”, cxii, 20). Origen’s writings were so much drawn upon that the solitary of Bethlehem called it plagiarism, furta Latinarum. However, excepting Rufinus, who is practically only a translator, St. Jerome is perhaps the Latin writer who is most indebted to Origen…”
Source:
http://catholicencyclopedia.newadvent.com/cathen/11306b.htm
7) Against Origen for some of his doctrinal errors which are actually very minimal compared to the Volumes of Doctrines which he taught rightly
To quote:
“… Argument over the orthodoxy of Origen’s teachings spawned the First Origenist Crisis in the late fourth century AD, in which he was attacked by Epiphanius of Salamis and Jerome, but defended by Tyrannius Rufinus and John of Jerusalem. In 543, the emperor Justinian I condemned him as a heretic and ordered all his writings to be burned. The Second Council of Constantinople in 553 may have anathemized Origen, or it may have only condemned certain heretical teachings which claimed to be derived from Origen. His teachings on the pre-existence of souls were rejected by the Church …”
Source:
http://catholicencyclopedia.newadvent.com/cathen/11306b.htm
8) Origen was the most established Christian Teacher of his era but yet did not live luxuriously but almost as a pauper to obey the Perfection Commands of Lord Jesus Christ
To quote:
“… He spent the whole day teaching[32] and would stay up late at night writing treatises and commentaries.[32][35] He went barefoot and only owned one cloak.[35] He was a teetotaler[37][38] and a vegetarian[37] and he often fasted for long periods of time.[38][35] Although Eusebius goes to great lengths to portray Origen as one of the Christian monastics of his own era,[32] this portrayal is now generally recognized as anachronistic…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen#
Conclusion
This is the “feeling” Origen left on even his enemies:
“… “As his doctrine so was his life; and as his life, so also was his doctrine…” – Eusebius, Bishop & Father of Church History regarding Origen
Source for the quote above and more astounding quotes by even some of the best ‘Eternal Hell scholars’ from Modern times itself regarding how they “feel” about Origen’s Christian Faith, please visit the link below:
https://www.tentmaker.org/biographies/origen.htm
“… But our belief is that the Word shall prevail over the entire rational creation, and change every soul into his own perfection; in which will choose what he desires, and obtain what he chooses. For although, in the diseases and wounds of the body, there are some which no medical skill can cure, yet we hold that in the mind there is no evil so strong that it may not be overcome by the Supreme Word and God. For stronger than all the evils in the soul is the Word, and the healing power that dwells in him; and this healing he applies, according to the will of God, to every man. The consummation of all things is the destruction of evil…” – Origen of Alexandria (AD 184 to AD 254)
Source:
https://www.triumphofmercy.com/blog/the-testimony-of-the-fathers-7-of-8
Peace to you
Origen of Alexandria – Heretic or a Man of God?
Here’s an Indirect Analysis via a well established Saint in First Christianity who is known to have been used by God to Perform Miracles after the time of the apostles & their presbyters —-> St. Gregory the Miracle Worker.
1) Origen of Alexandria baptized St. Gregory the Miracle Worker
To quote (from a non-Christian-Universalism Source – to avoid bias):
“… St Gregory studied for eight years with Origen, and was baptized by him…”
Source:
http://full-of-grace-and-truth.blogspot.com/2009/11/st-gregory-wonderworker-bishop-of.html?m=1
2) Origen of Alexandria openly taught Christ Centered Universalism which fascinated and was admired/believed by St. Gregory the Miracle Worker
To quote (from a non-Christian-Universalism Source – to avoid bias):
“… For the continuation of his studies St Gregory went to Alexandria, known then as a center for pagan and Christian learning. The youth, eager for knowledge, went to the Alexandrian Catechetical School, where the presbyter Origen taught. Origen was a famous teacher, possessing a great strength of mind and profound knowledge. St Gregory became a student of Origen. Afterwards, the saint wrote about his mentor: “This man received from God a sublime gift, to be an interpreter of the Word of God for people, to apprehend the Word of God, as God Himself did use it, and to explain it to people, insofar as they were able to understand it.”…”
Source:
http://full-of-grace-and-truth.blogspot.com/2009/11/st-gregory-wonderworker-bishop-of.html?m=1
3) St. Gregory the Miracle Worker is often quoted by both Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox persons as one who prays or venerates Mary, the Mother of Jesus
This is an “extrapolation” (“adding”) done as in ‘his original writing in his own words – omitting the subtitles added by others in link below’, he only explains that he has seen Mary the Mother of Jesus in a Heavenly Vision but he does not introduce nor practice any praying to her for his powers, to quote:
i. Pray
There is NO prayer to Mary in the entire Homily. If anyone says otherwise, please quote from the Homily which he wrote in his own words only, please? (not interpretations, nor addings are welcome)
In fact, the word “Pray or Prayer” only occurs once in his Homily and it does NOT show any role of Mary as a mediator nor does it show any prayer to Mary, please read ‘word by word’ carefully to realize this accurate truth, to quote:
“… Therefore, O ye fair-fruited and comely branches of Christ’s teaching, ye shall in this place bring to us the |173 fruits of blessing (= εὐλογίας). Here, where is all purity and fragrance, LET US OFFER TO GOD with holy conscience the incense of PRAYER. Here, where virginity and temperance dance together, bearing for fruit the life-giving cluster of grapes. Here, where they . . . unto us the . . . of victorious power and the treasure of love.9 Here, where the mystery of the Holy Trinity was revealed by the archangel to the Holy Virgin according to the gospel: “The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. For Holy is that which is born of thee, Son of God.” To whom be glory and honour for ever and ever…” – St. Gregory the Miracle Worker (Point 35, Homily)
Source:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/gregory_thaumaturgus_homily.htm
Focus Quote proving our claim from the above (where the Prayer is offered to God directly and NOT via Mary):
“… LET US OFFER TO GOD with holy conscience the incense of PRAYER …”
Note (a different Topic): Mary’s Virginity is celebrated prior to her Giving Birth to Christ as the quote above also easily proves this Context as St. Gregory the Miracle Worker speaks of the time before she was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit capturing that moment beautifully timelessly in his revealing words above.
ii. Venerate (Praise)
“… And the lambs which in faith browse upon this shoot forth the light-like rod of the Trinity. But we, O my friends, resorting to the garden of the Saviour, let us praise the Holy Virgin; saying along with the angels in the language of Divine grace, “Rejoice thou and be glad.” For from her first shone forth the eternally radiant light, that lighteth us with its goodness …” – St. Gregory the Miracle Worker (Point 12, Homily)
Source:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/gregory_thaumaturgus_homily.htm
What did St. Gregory the Miracle Worker mean by “Praise Mary” in ‘his own words’ (context)? – to quote from the above:
“… let us praise the Holy Virgin; saying along with the angels in the language of Divine grace, “Rejoice thou and be glad.” …”
Finer Focus:
“… let us praise the Holy Virgin; … saying along … “Rejoice thou and be glad.” …”
Can you see it?
“… let us praise the Holy Virgin; … ” = “… saying along … “Rejoice thou and be glad.” …”
Which means that the ‘Praise to the Holy Virgin’ is Spoken in the Context that Mary can ‘rejoice and be glad’ because she Bore Him, God in Flesh, the Redeemer. St. Gregory the Miracle Worker does NOT break into any exclamation of ‘Praise to Mary’ after saying the above (please take note ‘Carefully’ in ‘his own words’ – no extrapolation, no addings).
4) St. Gregory the Miracle Worker – Miracle Examples
i. The harlot’s false claim against him
To quote (Stories from Eastern Orthodox Source):
“… The ascetic life of St Gregory, his continence, purity and lack of covetousness aroused envy among his conceited and sin-loving peers, pagans that they were, and they decided to slander St Gregory. Once, when he was conversing with philosophers and teachers in the city square, a notorious harlot came up to him and demanded payment for the sin he had supposedly committed with her. At first St Gregory gently remonstrated with her, saying that she perhaps mistook him for someone else. But the profligate woman would not be quieted. He then asked a friend to give her the money. Just as the woman took the unjust payment, she immediately fell to the ground in a demonic fit, and the fraud became evident. St Gregory said a prayer over her, and the devil left her. This was the beginning of St Gregory’s miracles. …”
Source:
http://full-of-grace-and-truth.blogspot.com/2009/11/st-gregory-wonderworker-bishop-of.html?m=1
ii. St. Gregory the Miracle Worker used by God to drive out demons – Protestant Source
To quote:
“… Gregory was a great and conspicuous lamp, illuminating the church of God,” wrote Basil. “He possessed, from the co-operation of the Spirit, a formidable power against the demons, that he turned the course of rivers by giving them orders in the name of Christ; and that his predictions of the future made him the equal of other prophets.” By both his friends and his enemies, Basil concludes, Gregory was regarded “as another Moses.” Legends or no, Gregory’s leadership must have been great, because during his ministry, most of the city of Pontus converted to Christianity…”
Source:
https://www.christianitytoday.com/history/people/evangelistsandapologists/gregory-thaumaturgus.html
iii. Plenty of other Miracles
To quote (Roman Catholic Source):
“… Gregory of Nyssa describes at length the miracles that gained for the Bishop of Caesarea the title of Thaumaturgus ; herein the imaginative element is very active. It is clear, however, that Gregory’s influence must have been considerable, and his miraculous power undoubted. It might have been expected that Gregory’s name would appear among those who took part in the First Council of Antioch against Paul of Samosata ( Eusebius, Hist. Eccl. VII, xxviii); … When Gregory was consecrated he was forty years old, and he ruled his diocese for thirty years. Although we know nothing definite as to his methods, we cannot doubt that he must have shown much zeal in increasing the little flock with which he began his episcopal administration. From an ancient source we learn a fact that is at once a curious coincidence, and throws light on his missionary zeal ; whereas he began with only seventeen Christians, at his death there remained but seventeen pagans in the whole town of Caesarea. The many miracles which won for his the title of Thaumaturgus were doubtless eprformed during these years. The Oriental mind revels so naturally in the marvellous that a serious historian cannot accept unconditionally all its product; yet if ever the title of “wonder-worker” was deserved, Gregory had a right to it…”
Source:
https://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=5378
Conclusion – Christ Centered Universalism in St. Gregory the Miracle Worker as per the Right Parts of the Doctrine of Origen of Alexandria
St. Gregory the Miracle Worker believed that Lord Jesus Christ (God in Flesh) will “Reconcile All Created Things”* back to Himself as the Ultimate Gospel Truth Revealed via his heavenly visions too & Praised Christ and NOT Mary, to quote:
“… Let us all praise Him that is born of the Virgin… He that is hymned by cherubim and by myriad angels, as a citizen on earth doth He live. He that being before (all) MAKETH ALL CREATION ALIVE, was born of the Holy Virgin, in order that He might MAKE ALIVE ONCE MORE the FIRST CREATED [1 Corinthians 15:20 – 28] … Christ our God took on [Himself] to begin life as man (lit. the beginning of humanity), being yet a sharer of the [life] without beginning of God the Father; in order to LIFT UP unto the beginningless beginning of the Godhead MAN that was FALLEN..” – St. Gregory the Miracle Worker (Points 5 and 6, Homily)
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/gregory_thaumaturgus_homily.htm
[Emphasis Mine]
*(Definition for which “All things”? = “All Created Things” = “All Creation” = Koine Greek just “All” sometimes = Colossians 1:16, 20, Romans 8:20 – 22)
Let us never be to quickly believe what later Christians say about these earlier saints and rather ‘read their own preserved writings to understand what they actually believed and practiced’. Please be careful of interpolations, addings and other equivalent unreliable writings.
Example: Please forget the picture but focus on the quote in image which is real where the “Wisdom” St. Gregory the Miracle Worker is inclusive of knowing both the Trinity and Christ Centered Universalism too as his own quote above together with his baptism & doctrinal learning in this aspect via the Christian Universalist Origen of Alexandria clearly prove and imply respectively.
P/S: The Heretical Doctrines which were said to have been taught by Origen of Alexandria may have never to have been taught by him either.
To quote (from a non-Christian-Universalism Source – to avoid bias):
i) First Origenist Crisis
“… Tyrannius Rufinus, a priest at the monastery on the Mount of Olives who had been ordained by John of Jerusalem and was a longtime admirer of Origen, rejected the petition outright… Meanwhile, in 397, Rufinus published a Latin translation of Origen’s On First Principles.[1][11][2][12] Rufinus was convinced that Origen’s original treatise had been interpolated by heretics and that these interpolations were the source of the heterodox teachings found in it.[11] He therefore heavily modified Origen’s text, omitting and altering any parts which disagreed with contemporary Christian orthodoxy.[12][11] …”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origenist_Crises
ii) Second Origenist Crisis
“… The bishops drew up a list of anathemata against the heretical teachings contained within The Three Chapters and those associated with them.[20] In the official text of the eleventh anathema, Origen is condemned as a Christological heretic,[20][24] but Origen’s name does not appear at all in the Homonoia, the first draft of the anathemata issued by the imperial chancery,[20] nor does it appear in the version of the conciliar proceedings that was eventually signed by Pope Vigillius, a long time afterwards.[20] These discrepancies may indicate that Origen’s name may have been retrospectively inserted into the text after the Council.[20] Some authorities believe these anathemata belong to an earlier local synod.[25] Even if Origen’s name did appear in the original text of the anathema, the teachings attributed to Origen that are condemned in the anathema were actually the ideas of later Origenists, which had very little grounding in anything Origen himself had actually written.[20][21][16] In fact, Popes Vigilius (537–555), Pelagius I (556–61), Pelagius II (579–90), and Gregory the Great (590–604) were only aware that the Fifth Council specifically dealt with The Three Chapters and make no mention of Origenism or Universalism, nor spoke as if they knew of its condemnation—even though Gregory the Great was opposed to Universalism.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origenist_Crises
Peace to you
Equality and Equity – Are we truly Treating others Well?
Verse Fulfillment – Example in Image?
The Verse below (Proverbs 28:8) may be fulfilled in one manner via the real life scenario described in image.
How?
A Real Life Example: Such rich who exploit their poor workers not in accordance to God’s Principle of “treat others the same way you want them to treat you” (Matthew 7:12) by paying low wages or different wages based on racial or political or nationalistic discrimination etc. may find themselves “sick” and ‘end up paying high hospital bills’ where their wealth goes as ‘medical bill/charge profit’ toward ‘medical doctors who are kind to the poor in return’ (as Proverbs 28:8 agrees to this example perfectly), to quote:
“8He who increases his wealth by interest and usury
Gathers it for him who is gracious to the poor.
9He who turns away his ear from listening to the law,
Even his prayer is an abomination.
10He who leads the upright astray in an evil way
Will himself fall into his own pit,
But the blameless will inherit good.
11The rich man is wise in his own eyes,
But the poor who has understanding sees through him.” (Proverbs 28:8 – 11, NASB)
Who decides all these Earthly Judgments?
“Angels”, to quote:
“… the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty,” – The First Anonymous Christian (Hebrews 2:2, NASB)
So, let us be careful how we treat each other whether in worldly affairs or even in discriminative opportunity suppressing examples in ‘Church Ministry even’ etc. as our Most Blessed Savior said, “in EVERYTHING”, to quote:
“In EVERYTHING , therefore, TREAT PEOPLE the SAME WAY you want them to TREAT YOU, for this is the LAW and the PROPHETS.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:12, NASB)
Such doctors in image certainly are not greedy as they want their income to be shared toward societal causes which certainly will benefit the poor instead of hoarding millions more for themselves. These are the last true doctors among men; may you receive Great Mercy and/or reward in the afterlife too!
‘It is better to be underrated than overrated; similarly, it is also better to be underpaid than overpaid’ – Unknown
Peace to you
Salvation from Hell Universalism – Faith of St. Gregory the Miracle Worker
St. Gregory the Miracle Worker (or also known as St. Gregory Thaumaturgus) was the most documented person through whom God did the Greatest and Most number of miracles after the time of the apostles somewhere between 213 AD – 270 AD & is endorsed by all orthodox Christian churches from ancient times itself. I have described some key details of his life in my previous post which may be found in link below (please do a “search” using keyword “Gregory” to find the topic in that long post for edification):
Lake of Fire – Hope for the Wicked One Day? [Updated 19 Dec 2019]
Now, not only he was baptised by Origen of Alexandria but also he believed in afterlife Salvation from Hell (Hades, Shadow of Death regions) by Lord Jesus Christ as ongoing & Christ Centered Universalism like his master Origen, to quote (from ‘his own writing in his own words’):
1. Orthodox Christianity today fails to speak the Truth regarding his Christ Centered Universalism
To quote (Wikipedia’s entry is not comprehensive as of now):
“… Thomas Allin (writer on Universalism) claimed Gregory as a Universalist in 1899, but without any specific source evidence other than his friendship with Origen…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Thaumaturgus
2. St. Gregory Thaumaturgus’ All Creation Made New Universalism as per Origen of Alexandria’s teaching to him too
To quote:
i. St. Gregory the Miracle Worker believed that Lord Jesus Christ (God in Flesh) will “Reconcile All Created Things”* back to Himself as the Ultimate Gospel Truth Revealed via his heavenly visions too & Praised Christ and NOT Mary, to quote:
“… Let us all praise Him that is born of the Virgin… He that is hymned by cherubim and by myriad angels, as a citizen on earth doth He live. He that being before (all) MAKETH ALL CREATION ALIVE, was born of the Holy Virgin, in order that He might MAKE ALIVE ONCE MORE the FIRST CREATED [1 Corinthians 15:20 – 28] … Christ our God took on [Himself] to begin life as man (lit. the beginning of humanity), being yet a sharer of the [life] without beginning of God the Father; in order to LIFT UP unto the beginningless beginning of the Godhead MAN that was FALLEN..” – St. Gregory the Miracle Worker (c. 213 AD – c. 270 AD, Points 5 and 6, Homily)
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/gregory_thaumaturgus_homily.htm
[Emphasis Mine]
*(Definition for which “All things”? = “All Created Things” = “All Creation” = Koine Greek just “All” sometimes = Colossians 1:16, 20, Romans 8:20 – 22)
Let us never be to quickly believe what later Christians say about these earlier saints and rather ‘read their own preserved writings to understand what they actually believed and practiced’. Please be careful of interpolations, addings and other equivalent unreliable writings.
ii. All Created Things is Defined as ‘anything visible or invisible’ (that’s “everything created literally”) in his own words or Context below & he believes in Hope that Man or Fallen/Disobedient Man (hence “All Men”) will be Saved by Christ Eventually, implied in quote below – (1 Timothy 2:1, 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 Timothy 4:10):
“… Feasted with knowledge from the Divine knowledge, let us emit like a fountain the sweetly sounding hymns of praise; let us glorify the sweet powers of the Divine Word. With SWEETLY SOUNDING DOCTRINE let us send forth praise worthy of the DIVINE GRACE; forasmuch as earth, and sea, and ALL CREATED THINGS, VISIBLE and INVISIBLE [Colossians 1:16, 20], bless and |163 glorify GOD’S LOVE for MAN; for that His majesty was among [us]. For being God He appeared in the flesh, and taking on Himself extreme humility, was born of the Holy Virgin, to the END that He might RENEW AFRESH HIM that was DEAD through DISOBEDIENCE… [1 Timothy 4:10]” – St. Gregory Thaumaturgus (c. 213 AD – c. 270 AD, Point 4, Homily)
Source:
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/gregory_thaumaturgus_homily.htm
iii. He Prophetically Implies that “All Creation will Dance” before Him which in his Context and Definitions (all from this same writing in his own words) proves Christ Centered Universalism yet again in accordance to apostle Paul’s Prophecy of the “End” likewise too where God Will be “All in all” Creation (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28, Colossians 1:16, 20, Romans 8:19 – 22).
To quote:
“… Christ, Son of God, who was born of the Holy Virgin Mary, hath come as grace into the world; because by means of grace He hath made us alive, He that FASHIONED ALL THINGS. Now that Christ is born into the world, doth ALL CREATION DANCE. He giveth in exchange His temptation, |172 the coin of long-suffering, that He may claim (for us) the mansions of the kingdom. The Holy Virgin was filled with joy because He took from her His flesh, to the END that He might RAISE AGAIN HIM that was FALLEN under SIN…” – St. Gregory the Wonder Worker (c. 213 AD – c. 270 AD, Point 33, Homily)
Source:
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/gregory_thaumaturgus_homily.htm
Focus Quote from the above Universal Salvation by Lord Jesus Christ (God in Flesh) toward any man who has fallen in sin:
“… to the END that He might RAISE AGAIN HIM that was FALLEN under SIN…”
3. Salvation from Hell (Hades) or the “Shadow of Death” regions
“… Let us twine, as with a wreath, the souls (or selves) [of them that love the festival and love to hearken] 3 with golden blossoms, fain to be crowned with wreaths from the unfading gardens; and offering in our hands the fair-fruited flowers of Christ, let us gather [them]. For the God-like temple of the Holy Virgin is meet to be glorified with such a crown; because the ILLUMINING PEARL cometh forth, to the END that it may RAISE UP AGAIN into the EVER-STREAMING LIGHT THEM that were GONE DOWN into DARKNESS and the SHADOW of DEATH…” – St. Gregory Thaumaturgus (c. 213 AD – c. 270 AD, Point 11, Homily)
Source:
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/gregory_thaumaturgus_homily.htm
Focus Phrase from his Quote above Proving that Lord Jesus Christ Saves from Hell even now:
“… The ILLUMINING PEARL cometh forth, to the END that it may RAISE UP AGAIN into the EVER-STREAMING LIGHT THEM that were GONE DOWN into DARKNESS and the SHADOW of DEATH… (even if they “see/behold” him in the afterlife only as God Wills, John 6:40)”
Finer Focus:
“The ILLUMINING PEARL” = Lord Jesus Christ
“… the END that it may RAISE UP AGAIN into the EVER-STREAMING LIGHT THEM that were GONE DOWN into DARKNESS and the SHADOW of DEATH…” = Lord Jesus Christ will Raise (Save) “them” referring to those who died and went into Hellish Regions of Darkness and the “Shadow of Death” with no limits added in his original quote as it ‘literally’ means.
Note: St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD) below does prove the same Consistent Context or Definition in First Christianity that the “Shadow of Death” phrase in Holy Scripture refers to the afterlife Hellish Regions where “the souls of the dead were” (in his words).
Please consider:
An Edifying Comment (Context for “Shadow of Death” meaning in Holy Scripture), to quote:
Eternal Darkness or Hope in the Shadow of Death?
Verse:
“Seek Him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is His Name:” (Amos 5:8, KJV)
Please note the phrase “turneth the shadow of death into the morning” carefully in Verse above under the definition that the “shadow of death” refers to a location where some of the “souls of the dead” are, says who?
“… For as the Lord “went away in the midst of the shadow of death,” where the souls of the dead were, …” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XXXI, Book V)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
So, in light of this Biblical and First Christianity Context, is there an ‘eternal darkness’ which He will not turn to ‘light’ eventually?
I don’t think so:
“He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that He might fill all things.)” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 4:10, KJV)
Is that a proper context of the Verse above?
Yes, to quote the ‘opposite’ that only a Gnostic heretic taught that there is an ‘eternal darkness or shadow of some sort which is forever abandoned and will not be filled by Christ’s light’:
“For, according to them, the light of their Father will be changed into darkness and buried in obscurity, and will come to an end in those places which are characterized by emptiness, since it cannot penetrate and fill all things. Let them then no longer declare that their Bythus is the fulness of all things, if indeed he has neither filled nor illuminated that which is vacuum and shadow; or, on the other hand, let them cease talking of vacuum and shadow, if the light of their Father does in truth fill all things.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book II)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html
Please realize the easy fact that St. Irenaeous believes exactly the ‘opposite’ to the ‘Gnostic heresy’ he combats in the above quote (it should be obvious agreeing literally to the earlier Bible Verses).
More Bible Verses in links below regarding the “Shadow of Death” afterlife Hellish Regions, please consider:
1. Spirit World – The Intermediate State Mystery
2. SHADOW of DEATH – Irrefutable Context – Christ Prophesied to SAVE from HELL itself
SHADOW of DEATH – Irrefutable Context – Christ Prophesied to SAVE from HELL itself
3. Hell’s Missed Messianic Prophecy – SHADOW of DEATH
Peace to you
P/S: Holy Scripture’s Shadow of Death Context is Metaphorically Hell
Example (with Christ Saving from Hell or the ‘Shadow of Death’ Regions eventually is Described / Prophesied):
i) Psalm 107:10
“Such as sit in darkness and in the SHADOW of DEATH, being bound in affliction and iron;” (Psalm 107:10, KJV)
These ones are punished in the afterlife gloomy regions of Sheol (the SHADOW of DEATH) for “rebelling” against the “Word of God” & viewing “His Counsel” with “contempt” (Psalm 107:11).
(ii) Psalm 107:14
“He brought THEM OUT of darkness and the SHADOW of DEATH, and brake their bands in sunder.” (Psalm 107:14, KJV)
God in Christ SAVES them that were Bound to these afterlife punishment regions of Sheol (SHADOW of DEATH) as it is mentioned in verse above so clearly after they cried out to Him first as it is mentioned in Psalm 107:13.
Source Post:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/hell-forever-salvation-of-spirit-from-hell-too-facts-from-first-christianity/amp/
Peace to you
Contentment – God Supplies my needs or yours or both?
Verse:
“And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.” – apostle Paul (Philippians 4:19, NASB)
Context ‘as it is Written’:
i. Apostle Paul was suffering in chains, imprisonment and hunger when he wrote Philippians 4.
ii. Apostle Paul did NOT write that God will supply all his needs but “your needs” meaning that he prayed the best blessing toward those ‘not suffering for Christ at his level’ while he did NOT claim any of God’s Providence for himself – Selflessness at the Perfection level.
Why?
Apostle Paul’s Faith is at the Fullest level where whether he is provided for or not, it doesn’t matter to him as long as Christ helps him face whatever situation – the Biblical Law of “Contentment”.
Verses:
“Not that I speak from want, for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am. I know how to get along with humble means, and I also know how to live in prosperity; in any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need. I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.” – apostle Paul (Philippians 4:11 – 13, NASB)
Conclusion – Contentment vs the Desire to get Rich vs the Love of Money
“But godliness actually is a means of great gain when accompanied by contentment. For we have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either. If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content. But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 4:6 – 10, NASB)
Verse Quote:
Contentment (1 Timothy 4:6 – 8) vs the Desire to get Rich (1 Timothy 4:9) vs the Love of Money (1 Timothy 4:10).
This is a reason why apostle Paul is one of my most favorite apostle.
Peace to you
Apostle Paul – A Perfect Minister of Christ
The quote in image is dedicated to Apostle Paul Primarily who only took wages to help other churches (or others) but never took Money for himself for personal use for which ‘he worked a secular job as a tentmaker’, to quote his legendary Biblical way of Perfection:
“14So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel. 15But I have used none of these things. And I am not writing these things so that it will be done so in my case;” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 9:14 – 15, NASB)
“I robbed other churches by taking wages from them to serve you;” – apostle Paul (2 Corinthians 11:8, NASB)
“33“I have coveted no one’s silver or gold or clothes. 34“You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my own needs and to the men who were with me. 35“In everything I showed you that by working hard in this manner you must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’” – apostle Paul (Acts of the Apostles 20:33 – 35, NASB)
Peace to you
Christian Reward – Thirty Sixty Hundredfold Mystery
In the Parable of the Sower, Lord Jesus Christ mentioned that there is more to the meaning of the Seed sown upon Good Soil which yielded either thirty, sixty or a hundredfold accordingly where this meaning is Captured by Apostolic Tradition and not explained in the Bible, Verses:
“8And others fell on the good soil and yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty. 9“He who has ears, let him hear.” 10And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” 11Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. 12“For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. 13“Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.” (Matthew 13:8 – 13, NASB)
To quote from First Christianity this meaning as it was taught by Christ Privately to His Apostles who in turn taught to their presbyters (e. g. Bishop Papias) who in turn taught to their hearers (e. g. Bishop St. Irenaeous of Lyons):
i. Bishop Papias the Disciple of Apostle John
To quote:
“A fragment from the early 2nd century of one of the lost volumes of Papias, a Christian bishop, expounds that “heaven” was separated into three distinct layers. He referred to the first as just “heaven”, the second as “paradise”, and the third as “the city”. Papias taught that “there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce a hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold”.[6]
In the 2nd century AD, Irenaeus (a Greek bishop) wrote that not all who are saved would merit an abode in heaven itself.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_in_Christianity#
ii. Bishop St. Irenaeous of Lyons
Those Saved – Gradation – Thirty Fold, Sixty Fold and Hundred Fold Mystery
Also, is there a difference between those who are saved?
Yes, to quote:
“… And as the presbyters say, Then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour shall be seen according as they who see Him shall be worthy [They say, moreover], that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundred-fold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold: for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second will dwell in paradise, the last will inhabit the city; and that was on this account the Lord declared, “In My Father’s house are many mansions.” For all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling-place; even as His Word says, that a share is allotted to all by the Father, according as each person is or shall be worthy. And this is the couch on which the guests shall recline, having been invited to the wedding. The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, affirm that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved,..” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XXXVI, Book 5)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
Source Post:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/universal-salvation-and-faith-why-become-a-christian-now-to-be-saved/amp/
Conclusion – Last shall be First – How?
Since every Gospel effort is counted in percentage (Luke 21:1 – 4, Matthew 13:12), intent of Love (1 Corinthians 13) and Obedience (Matthew 5:19, 1 Corinthians 14:37 – 38, 2 Peter 3:2), you could receive the same reward level as a great martyr, saint or even a mega church pastor or missionary (which is how God Makes all things fair accordingly – why? To eliminate human bias, for example: Even within Christianity, God knows people will support certain people and not other Christians equally & so the lack of opportunity to serve in ministry will “not” affect anything in the end despite if ‘such ministry -discriminators’ who hold positions of power in Christianity filter or block those who differ from them accordingly – even if they ‘bore the heat of the day, i. e. did the most ministry conversion work’ for example, Matthew 20:12), to quote Verses Proving this Perfection of God against Bias in Ministry Context:
” 1“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2“When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius for the day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3“And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the market place; 4and to those he said, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ And so they went. 5“Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did the same thing. 6“And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing around; and he said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day long?’ 7“They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’
8“When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last group to the first.’ 9“When those hired about the eleventh hour came, each one received a denarius. 10“When those hired first came, they thought that they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius. 11“When they received it, they grumbled at the landowner, 12saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the scorching heat of the day.’ 13“But he answered and said to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14‘Take what is yours and go, but I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15‘Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous?’ 16“So the last shall be first, and the first last.”” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 18:1 – 16, NASB)
Only then each Christian has a fair chance to be first. This is First Christianity Biblically.
Peace to you
Hell Crosser and Salvation by Lord Jesus Christ
Let’s consider some Christ Centered Universalism quotes by the infamous St. Gregory the Miracle Worker (c. 213 AD – c. 270 AD) as follows:
i. Who is St. Gregory Thaumaturgus or St. Gregory the Wonder Worker?
To quote:
“… St. Gregory of Neocaesarea Known at THAUMATURGUS, (ho Thaumatourgos, the miracle-worker). Born at Neocæsarea in Pontus (Asia Minor) about 213; died there 270-275. Among those who built up the Christian Church, extended its influence, and strengthened its institutions, the bishops of Asia Minor occupy a high position; among them Gregory of Neocaesarea holds a very prominent place. His pastoral work is but little known, and his theological writings have reached us in a very incomplete state…”
Source:
http://www.knight.org/cathen/07015a.htm
ii. Christ Despoiled Hades and Crossed the Chasm which no one else could (Luke 16:26) with Focus of His Victory there toward His Saints first
To quote:
“… And if any one believes not that death is abolished, that Hades is trodden under foot, that the chains thereof are broken, that the tyrant is bound, let him look on the martyrs disporting themselves [581] in the presence of death, and taking up the jubilant strain of the victory of Christ. O the marvel! Since the hour when Christ despoiled Hades, men have danced in triumph over death. “O death, where is thy sting! O grave, where is thy victory? ” [582] Hades and the devil have been despoiled, and stripped of their ancient armour, and cast out of their peculiar power. And even as Goliath had his head cut off with his own sword, so also is the devil, who has been the father of death, put to rout through death; and he finds that the selfsame thing which he was wont to use as the ready weapon of his deceit, has become the mighty instrument of his own destruction. Yea, if we may so speak, casting his hook at the Godhead, and seizing the wonted enjoyment of the baited pleasure, he is himself manifestly caught while he deems himself the captor, and discovers that in place of the man he has touched the God. By reason thereof do the martyrs leap upon the head of the dragon, and despise every species of torment. For since the second Adam has brought up the first Adam out of the deeps of Hades, as Jonah was delivered out of the whale, and has set forth him who was deceived as a citizen of heaven to the shame of the deceiver, the gates of Hades have been shut, and the gates of heaven have been opened, so as to offer an unimpeded entrance to those who rise thither in faith…” – St. Gregory the Wonder Worker (c. 213 AD – c. 270 AD, On All the Saints)
Source:
http://mb-soft.com/believe/txua/thaumat2.htm
iii. Lord Jesus Christ Saves even now from the “Shadow of Death” Hellish regions in the afterlife till He bestows the baptism of the consubstantial Trinity upon ALL MEN eventually (and not believers only, 1 Timothy 2:1, 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 Timothy 4:10, John 17:1 – 4)
To quote:
“… Let us twine, as with a wreath, the souls (or selves) [of them that love the festival and love to hearken] 3 with golden blossoms, fain to be crowned with wreaths from the unfading gardens; and offering in our hands the fair-fruited flowers of Christ, let us gather [them]. For the God-like temple of the Holy Virgin is meet to be glorified with such a crown; because the ILLUMINING PEARL cometh forth, to the END that it may RAISE UP AGAIN into the EVER-STREAMING LIGHT THEM that were GONE DOWN into DARKNESS and the SHADOW of DEATH…” – St. Gregory Thaumaturgus (c. 213 AD – c. 270 AD, Point 11, Homily)
Source:
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/gregory_thaumaturgus_homily.htm
And
“… It becometh me to finish the old covenant, and then to dictate the new, and to write it on the hearts of men, and to subscribe it with my blood, [565] and to seal it with my Spirit. It becometh me to ascend the cross, and to be pierced with its nails, and to suffer after the manner of that nature which is capable of suffering, and to heal sufferings by my suffering, and by the tree to cure the wound that was inflicted upon men by the medium of a tree. It becometh me to DESCEND even into the very depths of the grave, ON BEHALF OF THE DEAD WHO ARE DETAINED THERE. It becometh me, by my three days’ dissolution in the flesh, to destroy the power of the ancient enemy, death. It becometh me to kindle the torch of my body for THOSE who sit in DARKNESS and in the SHADOW of DEATH. It becometh me to ascend in the flesh to that place where I am in my divinity. It becometh me to introduce to the Father the Adam reigning in me. It becometh me to accomplish these things, for on account of these things I have taken my position with the works of my hands. It becometh me to be baptized with this baptism for the present, and afterwards to bestow the baptism of the consubstantial Trinity upon ALL MEN.” – St. Gregory the Miracle Worker Speaking Prophetically Regarding Christ (c. 213 AD – c. 270 AD, The Fourth Homily)
Source:
http://mb-soft.com/believe/txua/thaumat2.htm
iv. Who claims that St. Gregory the Miracle Worker who had heavenly Visions & was baptized & influenced doctrinally by Origen of Alexandria is a reliable Prophet of God?
To quote:
“… Thaumaturgus (the Wonderworker)
According to Saint Basil, Saint Gregory Thaumaturgus (the Wonderworker) is comparable to Moses, the prophets and the apostles. Indeed, his works were many. He moved a huge boulder that was in his way preventing the building of a church. He dried out a pond that was a cause of discord between two brothers. In order to stop the River Lycus from its frequent and damaging floods, Gregory planted his staff at a safe point near the river bank. He then prayed that the river would never rise past the staff. The staff took root, grew into a large tree, and the river never flooded past it again. He drove out the demons from idols and people … and a great many more miracles…”
Source:
https://www.tfp.org/the-wonders-of-saint-gregory-thaumaturgus/
v. Are St. Gregory Thaumaturgus’ beliefs Orthodox?
“… The Oratio Panegyrica in honour of Origen describes in detail that master’s pedagogical methods. Its literary value consists less in its style than in its novelty, it being the first attempt at autobiography in Christian literature. This youthful work is full of enthusiasm and genuine talent; moreover, it proves how fully Origen had won the admiration of his pupils, and how the training Gregory received influenced the remainder of a long and well spent life. Gregory tells us in this work (xiii) that under Origen he read the works of many philosophers, without restriction as to school, except that of the atheists… St. Basil, who frequently attests the orthodoxy of the Thaumaturgus (Ep. xxviii, 1, 2; cciv, 2; ccvii, 4) and even defends him against the Sabellians, who claimed him for their teaching and quoted as his formula: patera kaiouion epinoia men einai duo, hypostasei de en (that the Father and the Son were two in intelligence, but one in substance) from the aforesaid Dialogus cum Aeliano. St. Basil replied that Gregory was arguing against a pagan, and used the words agonistikos not dogmatikos, i.e. in the heat of combat, not in calm exposition; in this case he was insisting, and rightly, on the Divine unity. he added, moreover, that a like explanation must be given to the words ktisma, poiema (created, made) when applied to the Son, reference being to Christ Incarnate. Basil added that the text of the work was corrupt…”
Source:
http://www.knight.org/cathen/07015a.htm
Conclusion
Please don’t easily believe what people claim these saints believed but rather read their own writings in their own words to understand their faith in Lord Jesus Christ more accurately.
Peace to you
Prayer for the Dead – Hope for unbelieving loved ones who have died
Historical Fact: There were No Limits in the Original Christian Prayer for the Dead.
The limits were added later plus extra observances which became the Roman Catholic Doctrine of Purgatory.
To quote:
“… Among Church writers Tertullian († 230) is the first to mention prayers for the dead: “The widow who does not pray for her dead husband has as good as divorced him”. This passage occurs in one of his later writings, dating from the beginning of the 3rd century. Subsequent writers similarly make mention of the practice as prevalent, not as unlawful or even disputed (until Arius* challenged it towards the end of the 4th century). The most famous instance is Saint Augustine’s prayer for his mother, Monica, at the end of the 9th book of his Confessions, written around 398…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_for_the_dead#
*Arius was the infamous non-Trinitarian heretic.
“… But Saint Perpetua, who was martyred in 202, believed herself to have been encouraged in a vision to pray for her brother, who had died in his eighth year, almost certainly unbaptized; and a later vision assured her that her prayer was answered and he had been translated from punishment. St. Augustine thought it needful to point out that the narrative was not canonical Scripture, and contended that the child had perhaps been baptized…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_for_the_dead#
“… When commenting on the Latin doctrine of purgatory, St Mark of Ephesus said some saints, by their prayer (synergistically aligned with the loving heart of Christ), saved even pagans (who had not repented before they died) from hell. Thus, if one can conclude that the forgiveness of sins after death it is consistent with Orthodoxy, it seems unreasonable to think people will stop actively trying to make universalism a reality…”
Source:
https://www.patristics.co/patristic-universalism/
“… Eastern and Oriental Orthodox believe in the possibility of situation change for the souls of the dead through the prayers of the living, and reject the term “purgatory”. Prayer for the dead is encouraged in the belief that it is helpful for them, although how the prayers of the faithful help the departed is not elucidated. Eastern Orthodox simply believe that tradition teaches that prayers should be made for the dead…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_for_the_dead#
Additional Quotes:
“… “Of course we do not understand exactly how such prayer benefits the departed. Yet equally, when we intercede for people still alive, we cannot explain how this intercessions assists them. We know from our personal experience that prayer for others is effective, and so we continue to practice it…” (Kallistos Ware, The Inner Kingdom (St Vladimir’s Seminary Press 2000, p. 36), ISBN 978-0-88141-209-3.
Example in Practice:
To quote:
“… After the Communion of the faithful, the deacon brushes these particles into the chalice, saying, “Wash away, O Lord, the sins of all those here commemorated, by Thy Precious Blood, through the prayers of all thy saints.” Of this action, Saint Mark of Ephesus says, “We can do nothing better or greater for the dead than to pray for them, offering commemoration for them at the Liturgy. Of this they are always in need… The body feels nothing then: it does not see its close ones who have assembled, does not smell the fragrance of the flowers, does not hear the funeral orations. But the soul senses the prayers offered for it and is grateful to those who make them and is spiritually close to them.” – Quoted in Seraphim Rose, The Soul After Death, p. 192, op. cit
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_for_the_dead#
iii. Early Protestant Reformation
“… The Lutheran Reformers de-emphasized prayer for the dead, because they believed that the practice had led to many abuses and even to false doctrine, in particular the doctrine of purgatory and of the Mass as a propitiatory sacrifice for the departed. But they recognized that the early Church had practiced prayer for the dead, and accepted it in principle. Thus in the 1580 Book of Concord, the Lutheran Church taught:
“… we know that the ancients speak of prayer for the dead, which we do not prohibit; but we disapprove of the application ex opere operato of the Lord’s Supper on behalf of the dead.” – “Defense of the Augsburg Confession – Book of Concord”. bookofconcord.org. Retrieved 2015-09-22.
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_for_the_dead#
Conclusion – St. Basil the Great’s Original First Christianity Quote below show that there were no limits to the “Prayer for the Dead” Practice in First Christianity as such things were added/adapted later toward the purgatory-concept or other relevant man-made rules by later leaders of the church.
Please note that St. Basil is Good at Quoting some First Christianity Quotes as it was Passed on regardless if he believed or practiced or understood it the same way as I have demonstrated regarding the “All Men” Universalism quote** (see below at the end) in previous posts too – What’s my point?
The First Christianity Practice of Prayer for all the Deceased Dead in Hades (Hell now) is Biblical and we should pray at least for our unbelieving loved ones + friends in our own way as part of our Christian Prayer Ministry toward all men (1 Timothy 2:1) be it whether they will be saved now, soon, later or even only after the Lake of Fire for truly sinful ones, to quote:
“… Saint Basil the Great (379 CE), writes in his Third Kneeling Prayer at Pentecost: “O Christ our God…(who) on this all-perfect and saving Feast, art graciously pleased to accept propitiatory prayers for those who are imprisoned in hades, promising unto us who are held in bondage great hope of release from the vilenes that doth hinder us and did hinder them … send down Thy consolation… and establish their souls in the mansions of the Just; and graciously vouchsafe unto them peace and pardon; for not the dead shall praise thee, O Lord, neither shall they who are in Hell make bold to offer unto thee confession. But we who are living will bless thee, and will pray, and offer unto thee propitiatory prayers and sacrifices for their souls.”…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_for_the_dead#
Please note that the General Prayer for the Dead Practice was stated by St. Basil the Great as relating to the “Pentecost Prayer” which is the First Time when the Holy Spirit was given to men after He Ascended. So, by not practising it, we may be missing out on a Truly Remarkable Tradition based on Holy Scripture as follows, to quote:
“… A passage in the New Testament which may refer to a prayer for the dead is found in 2 Timothy 1:16-18, which reads as follows:
“May the Lord grant mercy to the house of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain, but when he was in Rome, he sought me diligently, and found me (the Lord grant to him to find the Lord’s mercy on that day); and in how many things he served at Ephesus, you know very well.” As with the verses from 2 Maccabees, these verses refer to prayers that will help the deceased “on that day” (perhaps Judgement Day, see also end times). It is not stated that Onesiphorus, for whom Saint Paul prayed, was dead, though some scholars infer this, based on the way Paul only refers to him in the past tense, and prays for present blessings on his household, but for him only “on that day”. And towards the end of the same letter, in 2 Timothy 4:19, Paul sends greetings to “Prisca and Aquila, and the house of Onesiphorus”, distinguishing the situation of Onesiphorus from that of the still living Prisca and Aquila…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_for_the_dead#
Proof that the Roman Catholic Church added the Purgatory Doctrine to accommodate the First Christianity Doctrine of “Prayer for the Dead”, to quote:
“… It has formulated this doctrine by reference to biblical verses that speak of purifying fire (1 Corinthians 3:15 and 1 Peter 1:7) and to the mention by Jesus of forgiveness in the age to come (Matthew 12:32). It bases its teaching also on the practice of praying for the dead in use within the Church ever since the Church began and which is mentioned even earlier in 2 Macc 12:46…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory
**The “All Men” Universalism quote by St. Basil the Great as he reiterates it from First Christianity’s Orthodoxy with no interpretations or any manipulations, to quote:
Here’s a First Christianity Rarely known Orthodox Quote uttered by an ‘eternal Hell believing theologian’ who may actually be ‘quoting what the ancient and most orthodox Christians before him believed in regards to this context’:
“… after the witness of Gabriel, after her secret knowledge of the divine conception, after the great exhibition of miracles, she shall feel about her soul a mighty tempest. The Lord was bound to taste of death for every man — to become a propitiation for the world and to justify all men by His own blood. Even thou thyself, who hast been taught from on high the
things concerning the Lord, shalt be reached by some doubt. This is the sword. “That the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.” …” – St. Basil the Great (c. 329 AD – c. 379 AD, Letter CCLLX, Point 671 – Point 672)
Source:
If you read the ancient Christianity quote which St. Basil the Great quotes above, it is clear that Lord Jesus Christ’s ‘Ransom for All’ (1 Timothy 2:5 – 6) applies to “All Men in its own Divine-Kairois Times’ (as it is Written in 1 Timothy 2:6) which must mean ‘all human being ever created eventually’ simply because these ancient phrases “… The Lord was bound to taste of death for every man …” and ” …. — to become a propitiation for the world …” and “… to justify all men by His own blood…” means exactly that, right?
Please take note that St. Basil the Great may be reiterating a Well known orthodox phraseology in his writing above which proves that Lord Jesus Christ’s Ransom applies to All Men and not Just believers (as it is implied in 1 Timothy 4:10 too) but though he didn’t believe it, it is well known that his sister (St. Macrina the Blessed-Wonder Worker*) and his brother St. Gregory of Nyssa who must have known this phraseology too certainly understood this same phraseology as Christ Centered Universalism as they are known to have believed that as shown a little in my previous posts.
*Miracles has happened by God Healing through St. Macrina as utterred by St. Gregory of Nyssa himself, to quote (as some accuse those who believe in Christ Centered Universalism** to not have had experienced miracles which is false as shown by this example.
Source Post:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/
What do I believe about Hell as First Christianity taught?
It’s described in Image and more details in link below for edification:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/hell-in-church-history/amp/
Peace to you
Eighth Day Mystery – Wicked Saved from the Lake of Fire
Please note that In First Christianity or St. Justin Martyr’s Context:
[A Hope for Christians only to escape the Judgments, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18 and be part of the First Resurrection followed by His 1000 years Millennial Reign, Revelation 20:4 – 6]
The Seventh Day (“Sabbath Rest for the People of God”) is only for Christians (1000 years Millennial Reign after the First Resurrection – the “Last Day” in Holy Scripture, e. g. Revelation 20:4 – 6) which I have discussed extensively in earlier posts.
On this Seventh Day, Salvation or Resurrection for those not Christians will not be granted and the wicked “corpses” will be burnt meaning that they cannot be Healed or Reconciled (this First Christianity Context is described Biblically in P/S at the end of this write up).
So, on the Seventh Day at the end of this Age, these requests for their salvation thus cannot be granted. The dead bodies or carcasses being burnt proves that these cannot be resurrected or be healed during this time during Judgment but their soul/spirit will dwell in its appropriate abode, to quote:
“… … For the intellect of man-his mind, thought, mental intention, and such like-is nothing else than his soul; but the emotions and operations of the soul itself have no substance apart from the soul. What part of them, then, will still remain to enter into the Pleroma? For they themselves, in as far as they are souls, remain in the intermediate place; while, in as far as they are body, they will be consumed with the rest of matter …” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html
Hope for their resurrection in purity or healing to those limbs or just saved in the ‘spirit state only’ (1 Corinthians 5:5, 1 Peter 4:5 – 6) is renewed on the Eighth Day which is Described next.
[1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28, Context: Subjection and thus Salvation of His Enemies is included]
There’s more in Holy Scripture where St. Justin Martyr himself reveals that the “Eighth Day” Mystery Relates to the time after the “Seventh Day” where even the ‘wicked’ will finally be ‘converted as a child’ and ‘become obedient/subject to the Blessed Savior’ (hence Salvation is implied post this conversion as a child toward the wicked, Matthew 18:3 where they will enter and be least in the Kingdom of the Heavens, Matthew 5:19), to quote:
“… The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first.” Moreover, the prescription that twelve bells be attached to the [robe] of the high priest, which hung down to the feet, was a symbol of the twelve apostles, who depend on the power of Christ, the eternal Priest; and through their voice it is that all the earth has been filled with the glory and grace of God and of His Christ. Wherefore David also says: ‘Their sound has gone forth into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.’ And Isaiah speaks as if he were personating the apostles, when they say to Christ that they believe not in their own report, but in the power of Him who sent them. And so he says: ‘Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child…” – St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, Consecutive Sentences in CHAPTER XLI & CHAPTER XLII Proving Continuing Context*, ‘Dialogue with Trypho the Jew’)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
*Chapter Segregation and all that were added by others and you’re reading St. Justin Martyr’s quote as it is Written.
How?
“In that day you will not question Me about anything. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 16:23, NASB)
Lord Jesus Christ is Probably referring to the “Eighth Day” when He Declared “In that day” in Verse above because it agrees to the Context that only on that Day onward ‘anything we [Christians] ask’ (e. g. The Salvation of the Wicked on the Eighth Day as St. Justin Martyr’s quote agrees) may thus be granted from the ‘Lake of Fire’ agreeing to the ancient Christian Prophesies of the Sibyline Oracles, the Apocalypse of Elijah and the Apocalypse of Peter toward this same conclusion or end too as described in detail in Post Below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/
Reconciliation from the Lake of Fire Verse, to quote:
This is PROPHETICALLY implied in Revelation 21:5 as God makes ‘All things New’ through the Lake of Fire too (Consecutive Verse Context, Revelation 21:8) where in the End, these “thirsty” ones from the Lake of Fire are Reconciled to Christ (Colossians 1:16, 20) as Prophetically mentioned by the “Spirit” (God) and His “Bride” (Church, Sheepfold1) too in Revelation 22:17 ‘freely’.
“The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.” (Revelation 22:17, NASB)
Source:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/repentance-is-afterlife-repentance-possible/
Where
The Spirit = God
The Bride = Christians
The others who hear = any rational creature in His Kingdom of the Heavens
The thirsty = the wicked who are punished in Gehenna or the Lake of Fire for Purification too as ‘Fire causes Thirst’.
All Glory to the Blessed be Lord Jesus Christ our Most Loving Savior of the World!
How Reliable or Orthodox is St. Justin Martyr?
To quote:
What is Context or Meaning of “Inherit the Kingdom of God” which is only for the Church, His Bride so that only they are Directly Connected in His Immortality (a Great Mystery) while others are considered Mortal-not sharing His Divinity and thus do not get this Highest Inheritance in His Kingdom (1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10)?
To quote (an example):
“And Justin of Neapolis, a man who was not far separated from the apostles either in age or excellence, says that that which is mortal is inherited, but that which is immortal inherits; and that the flesh indeed dies, but the kingdom of heaven lives.” — From METHODIUS On the Resurrection, in Photius. (Fragment V, St. Justin Martyr’s Lost Writings)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-fragments.html
Note: Justin of Neapolis = St. Justin Martyr
P/S: Seventh Day Salvation vs Condemnation (more accurately, Judgment) Details, to quote:
Who claims this?
Justin Martyr himself ‘defines this’. Please consider:
“… but some injunctions and acts were likewise mentioned in REFERENCE to the MYSTERY of CHRIST, on account of the hardness of your people’s hearts. And that this is so, God makes known in Ezekiel, [when] He said concerning it: ‘If Noah and Jacob and Daniel should beg either sons or daughters, the request would not be granted them.’ And in Isaiah, of the VERY SAME MATTER He spake thus: ‘The Lord God said, they shall both go forth and look on the MEMBERS [of the BODIES] of the MEN that have TRANSGRESSED. For their WORM shall NOT die, and their FIRE shall NOT be QUENCHED, and they shall be a gazing-stock to ALL FLESH.’ So that it becomes you to ERADICATE this HOPE from YOUR SOULS, and hasten to know in what way forgiveness of sins, and a HOPE of INHERITING the PROMISED GOOD THINGS, shall be yours. But there is no other [way] than this,–to become acquainted with this Christ, to be washed in the fountain spoken of by Isaiah for the remission of sins; and for the rest, to live sinless lives.”… ” (Justin Martyr, DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO, CHAPTER XLIV)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
How? [all from Justin’s own words, quoted from the above]
He said concerning it —> in REFERENCE to the MYSTERY of CHRIST —> ‘If Noah and Jacob and Daniel should beg either sons or daughters, the request would not be granted them.’ —> VERY SAME MATTER —-> MEMBERS [of the BODIES] of the MEN that have TRANSGRESSED —> their WORM shall NOT die, and their FIRE shall NOT be QUENCHED —-> they shall be a gazing-stock to ALL FLESH —-> you to ERADICATE this HOPE from YOUR SOULS —> a HOPE of INHERITING the PROMISED GOOD THINGS.
What does this Passage refer to?
Revelation 14:10 reveals that these who receive the mark of the beast shall be tormented (with their souls, afterlife context – implied and believed to last into the next age or aeon, AGE2 as per Matthew 24:56) but the ‘smoke’ referring to these ‘pieces or parts of their bodies’ (and NOT souls) burns longer into the duration of ‘ages of Ages’ as God Wills (if we take these passages LITERALLY).
Really? Let’s Consider Justin again (in another passage):
“… But we will NOT receive it of all YOUR NATION; since we know from Isaiah that the MEMBERS of THOSE who have TRANSGRESSED shall be consumed by the WORM and UNQUENCHABLE FIRE, remaining IMMORTAL; so that they become a spectacle to ALL FLESH. … has shown that THOSE who were SELECTED out of every NATION have OBEYED His will through Christ,–whom He CALLS ALSO Jacob, and names Israel,–… He allots the SAME INHERITANCE to them, and does not call them by the same name; but when He says that they as GENTILES rejoice with His people, … WORTHY of knowing His will, and of inheriting His inheritance.” (Justin Martyr, CHAPTER CXXX, DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Is God Fair in this? Here’s Justin (yet again):
“… And besides, they beguile themselves and you, supposing that the everlasting [AGE-DURING, AGE1] KINGDOM will be assuredly given to those of the dispersion who are of Abraham AFTER the FLESH, although they be sinners, and faithless, and disobedient towards God, … And Ezekiel: ‘Even if Noah, and Jacob, and Daniel were to pray for sons or daughters, their request should not be granted.’ … And again Isaiah says: ‘They shall look on the CARCASSES of THEM that have TRANSGRESSED: their WORM shall NOT cease, and their FIRE shall NOT be QUENCHED; and they shall be a spectacle to ALL FLESH.’ … ‘They shall come from the east, and from the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness.’ Furthermore, I have proved in what has preceded,” that those who were foreknown to be unrighteous, whether men or angels, are not made wicked by God’s fault, but each man by his own fault is what he will appear to be.” (Justin Martyr, CHAPTER CXL,DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Source:
Peace to you
Christians – Sheepfold1 – Tower of Repentance – What does it mean to believe in faith now?
We become His First-Fruits with Full Inheritance in His Kingdom (James 1:18 – Verse in Image) and come under no afterlife Judgment at all (John 5:24).
To quote:
“… The acceptable year of the Lord, again, is this present time, in which those who believe Him are called by Him, and become acceptable to God-that is, the whole time from His advent onwards to the consummation [of all things], during which He acquires to Himself as fruits [of the scheme of mercy] those who are saved….” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons ‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XXII, Book 2)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal [age-during] life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:24, NASB)
Please believe in Lord Jesus Christ now to obtain these Greatest Rewards in the Afterlife by Faith!
Please believe in Him now and in the afterlife when you meet Him One Day, you may pray and request Salvation (be it in the ‘spirit state only first’) for each member of your family who died unbelieving so that they may be Saved in the afterlife now or some in the age to come only if they a led life too wickedly (1 Corinthians 5:5, 1 Peter 4:5 – 6).
“For to this end the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but they might live in the spirit according to God.” – apostle Peter (1 Peter 4:6, Berean Literal Bible)
Peace to you
P/S: Is your dead Loved one Sheepfold2 or the Wicked?
Definition:
Believing before seeing Him (Hebrews 11) – called “faith” (Sheepfold1 – Christians, John 10:14).
Believing after seeing Him (John 6:40) – mostly in the afterlife judgment regions as pointed out in the Shepherd of Hermas Scripture and other rarely known Bible Verses (e. g. those that Speak of the ‘Shadow of Death’ Mystery as explained in Previous posts, example below) – ‘way lower rewards’ (Sheepfold2 – ‘relatively Good-non-Christians’, John 10:16).
iii. Wicked
Those living wickedly whether they be Christians or non-Christians.
Firstly, St. Justin Martyr points that the ‘Wicked will Repent when Punished’ in quote below and the Shepherd of Hermas Scripture (next) describes what happens post-afterlife Judgment:
“… And in what kind of sensation and punishment the wicked are to be, hear from what was said in like manner with reference to this; it is as follows: “Their worm shall not rest, and their fire shall not be quenched;” and then shall they repent, when it profits them not….” – St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER LII , First Apology)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html
The phrase ‘… then shall they repent, when it profits them not …’ by St. Justin Martyr above must refer to ‘them not obtaining the promised inheritance of His Kingdom’ as the Shepherd of Hermas Writing only mentions that ‘those who participated in the Word among these ones get a much lower place’ implying that ‘those who did not participate obtain nothing’.
Indeed, the phrase ‘… then shall they repent, when it profits them not …’ by St. Justin Martyr above must mean the ‘same context’ as St. Irenaeous of Lyons below (because both are of the same true First Christianity’s Orthodoxy) where in the Parable where St. Irenaeous is referring to, the equivalent phrase ‘afterwards repented, when repentance profited him nothing’ did NOT disqualify ‘Basic Salvation*’ (implied), right?
“… The parable of the two sons also: those who are sent into the vineyard, of whom one indeed opposed his father, but afterwards repented, when repentance profited him nothing; [Matthew 21:28 – 32]**..” – St. Irenaeous of Lyoins (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Point 8, Chapter XXXVI, Book 4)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
*Basic Salvation = Being Saved with NO Inheritance in His Kingdom being Least (Matthew 5:19).
** Here is Christ’s Parable to which St. Irenaeous is referring to in his quote above:
““But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go work today in the vineyard.’ “And he answered, ‘I will not’; but afterward he regretted it and went. “The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, ‘I will, sir’; but he did not go. “Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you. “For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even feel remorse afterward so as to believe him.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 21:28 – 32, NASB)
Please note carefully that St. Irenaeous reveals in his phrase that these ones who ”afterwards repented, when repentance profited him nothing” —> points to whom Christ referred to as “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you” —> Implying that those sinners who die as a prostitute or tax collector but did participate in some Will of God end up being ‘saved’ (Basic Salvation) but do not ‘profit’ (or Inherit Greatly, right? The Shepherd of Hermas agrees to this Exegesis too as discussed next)
Is the Context above for 1 Peter 4:6 Correct?
Yes, according to the Shepherd of Hermas Writing which is Considered as Scripture by First Christianity (e.g. St. Irenaeous, Pope Callixtus, Tertullian, St. Clement of Alexandria), to quote:
Is Afterlife Repentance possible for ALL THESE REJECTED STONES post afterlife Judgment?
Yes. To quote [all these quotes are from the Scripture of the ‘Shepherd of Hermas’ Writing unless stated otherwise – please take note ‘carefully’]:
7[15]:5 Still importunate, I asked her further, whether for ALL THESE STONES that were REJECTED and would not fit into the building of the TOWER that was REPENTANCE, and they had a place in this tower. “THEY CAN REPENT” she said, “but they CANNOT be fitted into THIS TOWER.
7[15]:6 Yet THEY shall be fitted into ANOTHER PLACE much more humble, but not until they have UNDERGONE TORMENTS and have FULFILLED THE DAYS OF THEIR SINS. And they shall be changed for this reason, because they participated in the Righteous Word; and then shall it befall them to be relieved from their torments, if the evil deeds, that they have done, come into their heart; but if these come not into their heart, they are not saved by reason of the hardness of their hearts.”
*Please note that I have quoted these Shepherd of Hermas Verses in ‘Consecutive Order’ (Context) regarding the ‘Rejected Stones’ being offered ‘Afterlife Repentance’ thereafter but only after they ‘endure the torment of their Judgment first accordingly’ as you may read for yourself in the translation source quoted below.
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd-lightfoot.html
We know from Scripture (below) that these ‘rejected stones’ must refer to the ‘fallen believers and/or wicked’ as their ‘punishment sentences are the same during the Final Judgment’ (Verses below) implying that the Hope of Repentance above applies to them (Context – Matthew 5:23 – 26, Luke 12:57 – 59 too):
“the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. ” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:46 – 48, NASB)
Afterlife Judgment must be endured first (Hades now or some till the Lake of Fire later) before they repent
Focus Phrase: “… but not until they have UNDERGONE TORMENTS and have FULFILLED THE DAYS OF THEIR SINS…”
Afterlife Repentance is Given to them but only after they endure afterlife Judgment till the last penny (Matthew 5:23 – 26, Luke 12:57 – 59)
Focus Phrase: “… “THEY CAN REPENT” she said, “but they CANNOT be fitted into THIS TOWER. Yet THEY shall be fitted into ANOTHER PLACE much more humble …”
The Context of the Above is Afterlife Repentance simply because if it refers to ‘earthly repentance’, then they would be part of the Church (Sheepfold1) too meaning that they are part of this ‘Tower of Repentance’ which CONTRADICTS the phrases: “… ALL THESE STONES that were REJECTED and would not fit into the building of the TOWER that was REPENTANCE …” and “… but they CANNOT be fitted into THIS TOWER. Yet THEY shall be fitted into ANOTHER PLACE much more humble…”.
Can you see it?
It’s not just Purgatory per say because these REJECTED stones Includes those who were unrepentant Lawless ones (Remember Matthew 7:20 – 23)?
Really?
Yes, the Context of Afterlife Repentance above is Described toward ALL THESE STONES that WERE REJECTED as described first (in Context of the Consecutive Verses in the Shepherd of Hermas) as Listed out in Point 6 first, for example including these ones too, (to quote from Point 6 again for emphasis):
These are some of the REJECTED STONES “Context” which are said to REPENT LATER (in the afterlife, after Judgment as explained at the start of Point 7):
“5[13]:3 “But they that have the cracks, who are they?” “These are they that have discord in their hearts against one another, and are not at peace among themselves; who have an appearance of peace, but when they depart from one another, their wickednesses abide in their hearts. These are the cracks which the stones have.
5[13]:4 But they that are broken off short, these have believed, and have their greater part in righteousness, but have some parts of lawlessness; therefore they are too short, and are not perfect.”
7[15]:1 “But the other stones which thou sawest cast far away from the tower and falling into the way and rolling out of the way into the regions where there is no way, these are they that have believed, but by reason of their double heart they abandon their true way. Thus thinking that they can find a better way, they go astray and are sore distressed, as they walk about in the regions where there is no way.
7[15]:2 But they that fall into the fire and are burned, these are they that finally rebelled from the living God, and it no more entered into their hearts to repent by reason of the lusts of their wantonness and of the wickednesses which they wrought.
7[15]:3 But the others, which are near the waters and yet cannot roll into the water, wouldest thou know who are they? These are they that heard the word, and would be baptized unto the name of the Lord. Then, when they call to their remembrance the purity of the truth, they change their minds, and go back again after their evil desires.”
Please don’t believe the Roman Catholic Church’s claims of Purgatory ‘only’ or my claim that it includes all the wicked on account of the ‘same Judgment Sentence’ implied toward the ‘fallen believer & Wicked’ (Luke 12:46 – 48) but ‘read the translation in quoted source’ by yourself and decide for yourselves which is right (Luke 12:57) as the Bereans did who even scrutinized apostle Paul’s sermons & were praised for it (Acts 17:11).
Afterlife Evangelism in Hades & Repentance – Sheepfold2 in the Shepherd of Hermas
15[92]:4 “But the stones, Sir,” say I, “that came from the deep, and were fitted into the building, who are they?” “The first,” saith he, “even the ten, that were placed in the foundations, are the first generation; the twenty-five are the second generation of righteous men; the thirty-five are God’s prophets and His ministers; the forty are apostles and teachers of the preaching of the Son of God.”
15[92]:5 “Wherefore then, Sir,” say I, “did the virgins give in these stones also for the building of the tower and carry them through the gate?”
15[92]:6 “Because these first,” saith he, “bore these spirits, and they never separated the one from the other, neither the spirits from the men nor the men from the spirits, but the spirits abode with them till they fell asleep; and if they had not had these spirits with them, they would not have been found useful for the building of this tower.”
15[92]:1 “Show me still further, Sir,” say I. “What desirest thou to know besides?” saith he. “Wherefore, Sir,” say I, “did the stones come up from the deep, and wherefore were they placed into the building, though they bore these spirits?”
15[92]:2 “It was necessary for them,” saith he, “to rise up through water, that they might be made alive; for otherwise they could not enter into the kingdom of God, except they had put aside the deadness of their [former] life.
15[92]:3 So these likewise that had fallen asleep received the seal of the Son of God and entered into the kingdom of God. For before a man,” saith he, “has borne the name of [the Son of] God, he is dead; but when he has received the seal, he layeth aside his deadness, and resumeth life.
15[92]:4 The seal then is the water: so they go down into the water dead, and they come up alive. “thus to them also this seal was preached, and they availed themselves of it that they might enter into the kingdom of God.”
15[92]:5 “Wherefore, Sir,” say I, “did the forty stones also come up with them from the deep, though they had already received the seal?” “Because,” saith he, “these, the apostles and the teachers who preached the name of the Son of God, after they had fallen asleep in the power and faith of the Son of God, preached also to them that had fallen asleep before them, and themselves gave unto them the seal of the preaching.
15[92]:6 Therefore they went down with them into the water, and came up again. But these went down alive [and again came up alive]; whereas the others that had fallen asleep before them went down dead and came up alive.
15[92]:7 So by their means they were quickened into life, and came to the full knowledge of the name of the Son of God. For this cause also they came up with them, and were fitted with them into the building of the tower and were builded with them, without being shaped; for they fell asleep in righteousness and in great purity. Only they had not this seal. Thou hast then the interpretation of these things also.” “I have, Sir,” say I.
17[94]:1 “Now then, Sir, explain to me concerning the mountains. Wherefore are their forms diverse the one from the other, and various?” “Listen,” saith he. “These twelve mountains are [twelve] tribes that inhabit the whole world. To these (tribes) then the Son of God was preached by the Apostles.”
Source:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/
Shalom
Comment:
In the Shephered of Hermas quote above, the last phrases … “These twelve mountains are [twelve] tribes that inhabit the whole world. To these (tribes) then the Son of God was preached by the Apostles.” … is similar to the ‘Eighth Day’ Mystery below where St. Justing Martyr first points out that the Gospel is Preached by the Apostles into the World (Kosmos, hence the Spiritual World or Afterlife Context is Included as per the Shepherd of Hermas’ Scripture Context too) causing even the ‘Wicked to Subject & obey Him eventually’ (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28) as a ‘child, hence saved’ (Matthew 18:3, Matthew 5:19) toward the part or Context of ‘non-Church Related/non-Christian things’ in order of the Prophecies in Holy Scripture as St. Justin Martyr himself states just after saying this as …” … I can demonstrate that they were types, and symbols, and declarations of those things which would happen to Christ, of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him, AND OF THOSE THINGS WHICH WOULD ALSO BE DONE BY CHRIST HIMSELF …”.
To Quote:
“… The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first. “Moreover, the prescription that twelve bells be attached to the [robe] of the high priest, which hung down to the feet, was a symbol of the twelve apostles, who depend on the power of Christ, the eternal Priest; and through their voice it is that all the earth has been filled with the glory and grace of God and of His Christ. Wherefore David also says: ‘Their sound has gone forth into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.’ And Isaiah speaks as if he were personating the apostles, when they say to Christ that they believe not in their own report, but in the power of Him who sent them. And so he says: ‘Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child. Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation. And in short, sirs,” said I, “by enumerating all the other appointments of Moses I can demonstrate that they were types, and symbols, and declarations of those things which would happen to Christ, of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him, and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself. But since what I have now enumerated appears to me to be sufficient, I revert again to the order of the discourse.” – St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER XLI & CHAPTER XLII, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Please also notice ‘carefully’ how St. Justin Martyr distinguishes the Church as One Body vs the Wicked converted as ‘One Child’ as two different entities as follows:
“… Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation … of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him,…” – St. Justin Martyr
Please note the popular fallacy (of some) who may think that the ‘wicked referred to in quote above is the Christians before they have repented’. This is a false context as St. Justin’s phrase “… Such a thing as you may witness in the body [of Christ, the Church, implied] …” means that St. Justin is drawing an analogy toward how ‘the Wicked being converted & becoming as One Obe
dient/Subjected Child’ is similar to the One Body as how Lord Jesus Christ First Did to His Church. Can you see it?
Shalom
Christ Descended into Hell – The Apostle’s Creed Reveal it as an Article of Faith
“When you are made like Christ you will be willing to go to Hell to save those who are suffering.” – Bradley H.
And, conversing with the Archbishop of Canterbury, Sadhu Sundar Singh said: “If I do not see my mother in heaven, I shall ask God to send me to hell so that I may be with her.”
“To follow Christ and bear His cross is so sweet and precious that, if I find no cross to bear in heaven, I shall plead before him to send me as a missionary, if need be to hell.”- Sadhu Sundar Singh
1. Christ Descended into Hell to Preach and Save (1 Peter 3:18 – 19)
“because Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, so that He might bring you to God, having been put to death indeed in the flesh, but having been made alive in the spirit, in which also having gone, He preached to the spirits in prison at one time having disobeyed, …” – apostle Peter (1 Peter 3:18 – 20, NASB)
The phrase “He preached to the spirits in prison at one time having disobeyed” in Verse above implies that these wicked spirits of the past from the time of Noah are ‘disobedient no more’. This may be part of the ‘Sign of Noah’ (Matthew 24:37) too where the wicked of the current generation who ignored our preaching of repentance as how those wicked of the past rejected Noah’s preaching may have to endure Hell ‘age-duringly’ likewise before being Saved by Christ later (as the ‘Sign of Jonah’ is tied up to the Mystery of Christ Saving from Hell – Matthew 12:39 – Can you see it?).
“But how? Do not [the Scriptures] show that. the Lord preached the Gospel to those that perished in the flood, or rather had been chained, and to those kept “in ward and guard”? And it has been shown also, in the second book of the Stromata, that the apostles, following the Lord, preached the Gospel to those in Hades. For it was requisite, in my opinion, that as here, so also there, the best of the disciples should be imitators of the Master; so that He should bring to repentance those belonging to the Hebrews, and they the Gentiles; that is, those who had lived in righteousness according to the Law and Philosophy, who had ended life not perfectly, but sinfully. ” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 6, Chapter VI)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
2. The Apostles Descended into Hell to Preach by the Power of Christ (1 Peter 4:5 – 6)
“For to this end the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but they might live in the spirit according to God.” – apostle Peter (1 Peter 4:6, Berean Literal Bible)
To quote:
“15[92]:5 “Wherefore, Sir,” say I, “did the forty stones also come up with them from the deep, though they had already received the seal?” “Because,” saith he, “these, the apostles and the teachers who preached the name of the Son of God, after they had fallen asleep in the power and faith of the Son of God, preached also to them that had fallen asleep before them, and themselves gave unto them the seal of the preaching. 15[92]:6 Therefore they went down with them into the water, and came up again. But these went down alive [and again came up alive]; whereas the others that had fallen asleep before them went down dead and came up alive.” – Shepherd of Hermas
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd-lightfoot.html
Conclusion – is it always?
To quote from First Christianity:
No Time-Space Limit nor other Limits of Christ Saving from Hades or from elsewhere
“it is evident that those, too, who were outside of the Law, having lived rightly, in consequence of the peculiar’ nature of the voice, though they are in Hades and in ward, on hearing the voice of the Lord, whether that of His own person or that acting through His apostles, with all speed turned and believed. For we remember that the Lord is “the power of God,” and power can never be weak. So I think it is demonstrated that the God being good, and the Lord powerful, they save with a righteousness and equality which extend to all that turn to Him, whether here or elsewhere. For it is not here alone that the active power of God is beforehand, but it is everywhere and is always at work.” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c.150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 6, Chapter VI)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
To Quote from the above ‘carefully’ in the ‘Context of Salvation from Hades at ANY TIME with NO LIMIT’
Phrases: ” though they are in Hades and in ward” —> “all that turn to Him, whether here or elsewhere” —> “on hearing the voice of the Lord, whether that of His own person or that acting through His apostles,” —> “with all speed turned and believed ” —–> and “the active power of God is beforehand, but it is everywhere and is always at work”.
No Time Limit for Salvation from Hades —–>
Focus Phrase from the above: “always at work”
No Physical nor any other limit for Christ Saving from Hades ——> Focus Phrase from the above: “everywhere and is always at work”.
The ‘afterlife keeping in prison’ Post-Judgment awaiting Christ’s Salvation via Preaching of the Gospel has happened in the past (1 Peter 3:18 – 19) toward all as even St. Melito of Sardis clearly revealed proving this Context true toward the ‘future Gehenna Judgment’ as well as 1 Peter 4:5 – 6 implies:
Verses Describing this Parabolically: Mark 3:27 & Matthew 12:29.
First Christianity taught this:
“The Lord, having put on human nature, and having suffered for him who suffered, having been bound for him who was bound, and having been buried for him who was buried, is risen from the dead, and loudly proclaims this message: Who will contend against me? Let him stand before me. It is I who delivered the condemned. It is I who gave life to the dead. It is I who raised up the buried. Who will argue with me? It is I, says Christ, who destroyed death. It is I who triumphed over the enemy, and having trod down HADES, and bound the STRONG MAN, and have SNATCHED MANKIND up to the HEIGHTS of HEAVEN. It is I, says Christ. So then, come here ALL you FAMILIES of MEN, weighed down by your sins and recieve pardon for your misdeeds. For I am your pardon. I am the Passover which brings salvation. I am the Lamb slain for you. I am your lustral bath. I am your life. I am your resurrection. I am your light, I am your salvation, I am your King. It is I who brings you up to the heights of heaven. It is I who will give you the resurrection there. I will show you the Eternal Father. I will raise you up with my own right hand.” – St. Melito, Jewish Bishop of Sardis (Died c. 180 AD, ‘Homily on Pascha’)
Source:
https://www.orthodox.net/pascha/pascha-melito.html
Please note ‘carefully’ also that neither of these quote refers to men of the past alone but “Man” in general (e. g. St. Irenaeous’ uses a two-fold argument to refer to Man and Adam by equivalence being set free from Condemnation* while St. Melito’s quote clearly mentions that Christ brings Salvation to all the families of Mankind in Hades itself) . Yes , even Hades/Sheol is mentioned in St. Melito’s quote. A Deep Mystery Indeed.
More Reading:
Lake of Fire – Hope for the Wicked One Day? [Updated 19 Dec 2019]
“Should I worship Him from fear of hell, may I be cast into it. Should I serve Him from desire of gaining heaven, may He keep me out. But should I worship Him from love alone, He reveals Himself to me, that my whole heart may be filled with His love and presence.” – Sadhu Sundar Singh
Peace to you
Apocatastasis – The Undying Light of The Risen Undefeated Champion in our Lord Jesus Christ
As the Song from Bethel Rings
“… Jesus … You are my Champion … Giants Fall … You Stand Undefeated …”
1) Judaism – Which Judaism did Christ Reject based on their known teaching of Gehenna too?
To quote:
So the only Rabbi who believed in Eternal Torment was also the Rabbi who taught the Pharisees.
It’s also worth noting that Jesus almost never agreed with Shammai’s teachings. Jesus’ teachings were much closer to Hillel.
As such, it is interesting that in the eight key debates that Jesus entered, he sided with the School of Hillel – or went even farther than Hillel – in seven and only sided with Shammai in one case (that of when divorce is acceptable).
For instance, in the debate of “who is my neighbor?”, Shammai taught that only God-fearing, observant Jews were ‘neighbors’ (thus, the only ones worthy of love). Hillel, on the other hand, taught that everyone – including one’s enemies – were ‘neighbors’, with the exception of the hated, apostate Samaritans.
Jesus agreed with Hillel, though He obviously included Samaritans as neighbors too. A random interesting fact, Hillel’s grandson Gamiel was a tutor to Paul. It’s also worth noting that the famous “golden rule” was an allusion to something that Rabbi Hillel said before Jesus was born.
“That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn.” – Rabbi Hillel
By contrast, Shammai was the leader of the Sanhedrin for many years, though he died before Jesus was tried. When he was appointed, he issued 18 edicts. The Talmud records this as a disastrous event in Shabbat 17a.
And that day was as difficult for Israel as the day the Golden Calf was made, as Hillel, who was the Nasi, was forced to sit in submission before Shammai, and the opinion of Beit Shammai prevailed in the vote conducted that day
We also know the Sanhedrin was composed primarily of Shammai followers during Christ’s trial:
Nevertheless, the Sanhedrin would remain primarily dominated by the House of Shammai until after 70 C.E. After that time, the House of Shammai rapidly lost influence.
The vast majority of Jewish tradition teaches a limited torment in Gehenna (hell). The Talmud (the “Jewish Catechism”) teaches this and most limit the duration to only 12 months. Shammai was the only major Rabbi (both in Jesus day and in most of their history) who believed in Eternal Torment.
I would like to point out the similarities between Shammai and Tertullian. Both were quite legalistic and very unloving toward their enemies. Shammai taught the Pharisees and Tertullian liked to imagine his enemies burning in hell forever.
Not exactly good Christian role models.
Source:
http://www.bereanpatriot.com/the-early-church-fathers-on-universal-restoration/
2) Faith of a Christian Champion in First Christianity
Please Consider this First Orthodox Explanation in Detail regarding the Resurrections (yes, ‘plural’, because if there is a First Resurrection there must at least be a Second Resurrection, right? Revelation 20:4 – 6) by Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan (Doctor of the Church):
To quote:
“91. Now the first-fruits are undoubtedly of the same nature and kind as the remaining fruits, the first of which are offered to God as a petition for a richer increase, as a holy thank-offering for all gifts, and as a kind of libation of that nature which has been restored. Christ, then, is the firstfruits of them that rest. But is this of His own who are at rest, who, as it were, freed from death, are holden by a kind of sweet slumber, or of all those who are dead? “As in Christ all die, so too in Christ shall all be made alive.” So, then, as the firstfruits of death were in Adam, so also the firstfruits of the resurrection are in Christ…
154 For with His Goodness He enlightens all, and wills not to reject but to amend the foolish, and desires not to exclude the hard-hearted from the Church, but to soften them. And so the Church in the Song of Songs and Christ in the Gospel invites them, saying: “Come unto Me, all ye who labour and are heavy laden, and I will refresh you; take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart.” – Bishop Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Book II. On the Belief in the Resurrection, verses 91, 92, 101, 102, 110, 114, 115, 117).
Source:
https://www.cogwriter.com/salvation.htm
Note: I don’t agree with the CogWriter on many doctrinal points but in regards to the Doctrine of Apocatastasis, he gets many points with Verses interestingly right or almost right as you can see his take on it in link above. So, we do have some common grounds.
The Universalism Correction in the ‘Resurrection of Judgment’ (John 5:28 – 29) Savoring phrases in his quote above:
“… All indeed shall rise again, but, as says the Apostle, “each in his own order.” The fruit of the Divine Mercy is common to all, but the order of merit differs. … We see, then, that heaven is open to virtue, and that this is the privilege not only of a few: … and what is lost be restored, for all these things are accomplished as soon as they are determined by the Divine Will… For with His Goodness He enlightens all, and wills not to reject but to amend the foolish, and desires not to exclude the hard-hearted from the Church, but to soften them…”
To quote:
One interpretation of Ambrose’s writings is that he was a Christian universalist. It has been noted that Ambrose’s theology was significantly influenced by that of Origen and Didymus the Blind, two other early Christian universalists. One quotation cited in favor of this belief is:
“Our Savior has appointed two kinds of resurrection in the Apocalypse. ‘Blessed is he that hath part in the first resurrection,’ for such come to grace without the judgment. As for those who do not come to the first, but are reserved unto the second resurrection, these shall be disciplined until their appointed times, between the first and the second resurrection.” – Archbishop Ambrose of Milan (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD)
One could interpret this passage as being another example of the mainstream Christian belief in a general resurrection (that both those in heaven and in hell undergo a bodily resurrection), or an allusion to purgatory (that some destined for heaven must first undergo a phase of purification). Several other works by Ambrose clearly teach the mainstream view of salvation. For example: “The Jews feared to believe in manhood taken up into God, and therefore have lost the grace of redemption, because they reject that on which salvation depends.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrose#
Comment:
The Wikipedia’s quote above “therefore have lost the grace of redemption, because they reject that on which salvation depends.” —-> does not prove that St. Ambrose believes in an eternal hell.
Why? As his own belief in the Resurrections prove, it reveals that the meaning is that one misses out on the First Resurrection (Revelation 20:4 – 6) in which only the Christians, or the Bride of Christ is Selected where only these Share His Divinity and Rule with Him over all creation thereafter (Ephesians 1:20 – 23).
So, those missing out on the First Resurrection will be Disciplined accordingly till they are “Made Alive” (1 Corinthians 15:20 – 23) in their order later as even this ancient quote by the great Theophilus of Antioch points – please note the ‘re-making after the breaking in pieces during the “AEONIAN/Eternal Fire” (Matthew 25:46) of the Resurrection of Judgment first in the Lake of Fire, implied’ as part of the process (John 5:28 – 29):
“And God showed great kindness to man, in this, that He did not suffer him to continue being in sin forever; but as it were, by a kind of banishment, cast him out of paradise in order that, having punishment expiated within an appointed time, and having been disciplined, he should afterwards be recalled…just as a vessel, when one being fashioned it has some flaw, is remolded or remade that it may become new and entire; so also it happens to man by death. For he is broken up by force, that in the resurrection he may be found whole; I mean spotless, righteous and immortal.” – Bishop Theophilus of Antioch (c. 168 AD)
Source:
http://www.bereanpatriot.com/the-early-church-fathers-on-universal-restoration/
Note: The First Resurrection happens on the “Seventh, Sabbath Day, the Last Day of this Age (Aeon)” which is also the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ (Revelation 20:4 – 6).
The Fact that this Restoration of the Wicked happening after that is echoed as the “Eighth Day” Mystery, to quote (based on Revelation 22:17’s God & His Bride (Christians) calling out to the ‘thirsty ones from the Lake of Fire’ to be Reconciled, Colossians 1:16, 20, 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28 as the “End”):
To quote:
“The Bible clearly shows that everyone will have a chance–one real chance. Those who truly already had their opportunity will be destroyed without this later opportunity (Hebrews 2:3;6:4-5). The only ones who truly had their opportunity in this life and discarded it, have blasphemed the Holy Spirit, the one thing Jesus said would not be forgiven.
Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come (Matthew 12:31-32, see also Hebrews 6:4-6).
Notice that Jesus said that speaking against Him would be forgiven in the age to come–hence hearing the name of Christ and not responding to it IS NOT AN UNPARDONABLE SIN. But blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (see What is the Unpardonable Sin?) will not be forgiven.”
Source:
https://www.cogwriter.com/salvation.htm
To quote:
intended His holy days to picture to His Church repeatedly year by year the fact that only those He Himself calls during this age can become His begotten children now! And we are merely the firstfruits of the great spiritual harvest!… This eighth day, which immediately follows the seven days of the Feast of Tabernacles, pictures the completion of the plan of redemption. It is just prior to the new heaven and the new earth. All parents and children, young and old will be resurrected. Notice that the “book of life” typifying salvation is opened (Revelation 20:12). Revelation presents the final view of the “judgment day” as the present material heaven and earth are perishing and the faithful are receiving their eternal reward at the throne of Christ. The wicked those who disobey are seen perishing in the lake of fire! What a marvelous plan! All will have an equal opportunity (Armstrong HW. Pagan Holidays–or God’s Holy Days—Which?, booklet).
Source:
https://www.cogwriter.com/salvation.htm
iii. CogWriter on the Eighth Day Mystery
To quote:
Although Jesus seemed to discuss the concept in vs. 3 on the eighth day connected with the Feast of Tabernalces that He referred Last Great Day in John 7:37, there is no scriptural evidence that verses 4-6 were fulfilled then, thus biblically it appears that Isaiah is writing about a future time of salvation.
The Jews call that eighth day the day of rain:
The sage Rabbi Abahu said: The day of rain is greater than the resurrection of the dead, because the resurrection of the dead benefits only the righteous, but rain benefits both the righteous and the unrighteous. (Babylonian Talmud, Ta’anit 7a)
Source:
https://www.cogwriter.com/apocatastasis-all-prophets.htm
Comment – Why do I quote some authors whom I don’t agree fully in doctrine with?
I believe that they got some parts right and in agreement with First Christianity’s Best leaders of the Church and I quote them when they agree. We must not look down on anyone thinking that they are wrong on all accounts.
To quote:
Apocatastasis (Gr., apokatastasis; Lat. restitutio in pristinum statum, restoration to the original condition).
A name given in the history of theology to the doctrine which teaches that a time will come when all free creatures will share in the grace of salvation; in a special way, the devils and lost souls.
This doctrine was explicitly taught by St. Gregory of Nyssa, and in more than one passage. It first occurs in his “De animâ et resurrectione” (P.G., XLVI, cols. 100, 101)…A time, then, will come, when all evil shall cease to be since it has no existence of its own apart from the free will, in which it inheres; when every free will shall be turned to God, shall be in God, and evil shall have no more wherein to exist. Thus, St. Gregory of Nyssa continues, shall the word of St. Paul be fulfilled: Deus erit omnia in omnibus (1 Corinthians 15:28), which means that evil shall, ultimately, have an end, since, if God be all in all, there is no longer any place for evil…
The doctrine of the apokatastasis is not, indeed, peculiar to St. Gregory of Nyssa, but is taken from Origen, who seems at times reluctant to decide concerning the question of the eternity of punishment…Origen teaches the apokatastasis, the final restoration of all intelligent creatures to friendship with God…It was through Origen that the Platonist doctrine of the apokatastasis passed to St. Gregory of Nyssa, and simultaneously to St. Jerome, at least during the time that St. Jerome was an Origenist…
From the moment, however, that anti-Origenism prevailed, the doctrine of the apokatastasis was definitely abandoned…It was destined, nevertheless, to be revived in the works of ecclesiastical writers…The doctrine of apokatastasis viewed as a belief in a universal salvation is found among the Anabaptists…(Batiffel, Pierre. Transcribed by Elizabeth T. Knuth. Apocatastasis. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume I. Published 1907. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Nihil Obstat, March 1, 1907. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York).
And
The theory of apokatastasis has unofficially cost Gregory of Nyssa for many centuries recognition as a theologian of the rank of Basil, Gregory of Nazianzos and John Chrysostom, and was one of the reasons Origen was anathematized. Yet in some ways it can also be found in the theology of Maximos the Confessor, a Father of the Church who has often been considered the measure of orthodoxy in doctrinal matters and the summit of Orthodox theology. The ideas of Maximos can be connected to the concept of apokatastasis in three different ways. First, he has written some passages that pertain explicitly on the apokatastasis. Second, some issues examined in his writings can be connected with the apokatastasis, and this association has been drawn by certain scholars, but Maximos refuses to discuss them in detail, in the apophatic expression he borrowed from pseudo-Dionysios, “honoring the truth by silence”. Third, Maximos’ entire theological system of cosmic salvation and his views on what exactly is restored in the kind of apokatastasis recognized by the Church, can give us a good insight to his views on the possibility of a final restoration of all…
Source:
https://www.cogwriter.com/salvation.htm
To quote:
“The Last Great Day helps picture that all who ever lived will have a real opportunity for salvation (John 7:37-38; Isaiah 52:10,13-15; 65:20; Luke 3:6)–an opportunity most will accept (John 7:37-39; Romans 11:25-26; Ezekiel 37:11-14; Hebrews 9:27-28). The New Testament name comes from the Apostle John who wrote, “On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” (John 7:37-38).”
Source:
https://www.cogwriter.com/last-great-day.htm
The CogWriter proposes that the Eighth Day Invitation of Christ is prior to the Lake of Fire Judgment. However, the quotes from St. Justin Martyr contradict this saying that the Lake of Fire Judgment happens in the Seventh Day onward. The CogWriter is not fond of St. Justin Martyr.
The CogWriter proposes that Christ’s offer of Salvation is before the Lake of Fire Judgment while I see that the Invitation toward the “thirsty” (Prophetically in John 7:37 – 38) points to those “thirsty being reconciled from the Lake of Fire as they only thirst after being cast into it” agreeing to Revelation 22:17.
So, which agrees with First Christianity?
The Last Mysterious Quote by St. Justin Martyr In Context of the Eighth Day Mystery seem to agree to what I proposed in that the “Wicked are only Saved after being converted as a child on the Eigth post Lake of Fire Judgments during their Aeonian or age-during sentence first from the Seventh to the Eighth Day” , to quote from a previous post below:
Comment:
In the Shephered of Hermas quote above, the last phrases … “These twelve mountains are [twelve] tribes that inhabit the whole world. To these (tribes) then the Son of God was preached by the Apostles.” … is similar to the ‘Eighth Day’ Mystery below where St. Justing Martyr first points out that the Gospel is Preached by the Apostles into the World (Kosmos, hence the Spiritual World or Afterlife Context is Included as per the Shepherd of Hermas’ Scripture Context too) causing even the ‘Wicked to Subject & obey Him eventually’ (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28) as a ‘child, hence saved’ (Matthew 18:3, Matthew 5:19) toward the part or Context of ‘non-Church Related/non-Christian things’ in order of the Prophecies in Holy Scripture as St. Justin Martyr himself states just after saying this as …” … I can demonstrate that they were types, and symbols, and declarations of those things which would happen to Christ, of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him, AND OF THOSE THINGS WHICH WOULD ALSO BE DONE BY CHRIST HIMSELF …”.
To Quote:
“… The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first. “Moreover, the prescription that twelve bells be attached to the [robe] of the high priest, which hung down to the feet, was a symbol of the twelve apostles, who depend on the power of Christ, the eternal Priest; and through their voice it is that all the earth has been filled with the glory and grace of God and of His Christ. Wherefore David also says: ‘Their sound has gone forth into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.’ And Isaiah speaks as if he were personating the apostles, when they say to Christ that they believe not in their own report, but in the power of Him who sent them. And so he says: ‘Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child. Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation. And in short, sirs,” said I, “by enumerating all the other appointments of Moses I can demonstrate that they were types, and symbols, and declarations of those things which would happen to Christ, of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him, and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself. But since what I have now enumerated appears to me to be sufficient, I revert again to the order of the discourse.” – St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER XLI & CHAPTER XLII, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Please also notice ‘carefully’ how St. Justin Martyr distinguishes the Church as One Body vs the Wicked converted as ‘One Child’ as two different entities as follows:
“…We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child … and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself …” – St. Justin Martyr
“… Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation … of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him,…” – St. Justin Martyr
Please note the popular fallacy (of some) who may think that the ‘wicked referred to in quote above is the Christians before they have repented’. This is a false context as St. Justin’s phrase “… Such a thing as you may witness in the body [of Christ, the Church, implied] …” means that St. Justin is drawing an analogy toward how ‘the Wicked being converted & becoming as One Obedient/Subjected Child’ is similar to the One Body as how Lord Jesus Christ First Did to His Church. Can you see it?
Shalom.
Conclusion
“and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world [Kosmos].” – apostle John (1 John 2:2, NASB)
“Ver. 2. “And not only for our sins,”–that is for those of the faithful,–is the Lord the propitiator, does he say, “but also for the whole world.” (1 John 2:2) He, indeed, saves all; but some [He saves], converting them by punishments; others, however, who follow voluntarily [He saves] with dignity of honour; so “that every knee should bow to Him, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth;” that is, angels, men, and souls that before His advent have departed from this temporal life..” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-fragments.html
Verse in Image – Context as It is Written:
“not for our sins only” = not for any Christian’s sins only
“sins of the whole world” = sin of any creation, human or otherwise
“Propitiation” = ending of wrath (also applies in that even if the Judgment Sentence is eternal Hell, the Sentence can be cancelled by His Propitiation as His Mercy is not equal but Greater than Judgment, triumphing/ending it as James 2:13 agrees with His Mercy Promised as the Last Word on Judgment toward ‘all in disobedience’ [NASB] or ‘all in unbelief’ [KJV] in the end order of His Final Judgment, Romans 11:32 – in Romans 9 – 11).
This is “Apocatastasis of ALL Created things” (the actual Greek Word) found in Holy Scripture as it was Prophesied (this Restoration to the First Sinless Condition) by all True Prophets of God from the “Age” (Aeon/Olam) with their “mouths” (not necessarily always written), to quote:
“whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of a restitution (Apocatastasis) of all things, of which God spake through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age [Aeon/Olam].” – apostle Peter (Acts of the Apostles 3:21, YLT)
Please note that all Prophets of God must Preach this Doctrine according to the Verse above, right?
Peace to you
Afterlife Repentance – Saved vs Not Saved Meaning in First Christianity via the Scripture of the Shepherd of Hermas
To quote
“For the Lord has sworn by his glory, in regard to his elect, that if any one of them sin after a certain day which has been fixed, he will not be saved. For the repentance of the righteous has limits. Filled up are the days of repentance to all the saints. But to the unbeliever, repentance will be possible even to the last day. … For the Lord has sworn by his Son, that those who denied their Lord have abandoned their life in despair.” (Ante Nicene Fathers, Volume 2, pg.11)
Source:
https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/church-history/ante-nicene-fathers.php
So, doesn’t the above debunk the concept of Purgatory for Christians simply because if they die unsaved, they cannot repent?
The above is a typical example of a shallow exegesis because the author does not even quote the ‘other Verses in the Shepherd of Hermas’. Here they are, to quote from an earlier post:
“Is Afterlife Repentance possible for ALL THESE REJECTED STONES post afterlife Judgment?
Yes. To quote [all these quotes are from the Scripture of the ‘Shepherd of Hermas’ Writing unless stated otherwise – please take note ‘carefully’]:
7[15]:5 Still importunate, I asked her further, whether for ALL THESE STONES that were REJECTED and would not fit into the building of the TOWER that was REPENTANCE, and they had a place in this tower. “THEY CAN REPENT” she said, “but they CANNOT be fitted into THIS TOWER.
7[15]:6 Yet THEY shall be fitted into ANOTHER PLACE much more humble, but not until they have UNDERGONE TORMENTS and have FULFILLED THE DAYS OF THEIR SINS. And they shall be changed for this reason, because they participated in the Righteous Word; and then shall it befall them to be relieved from their torments, if the evil deeds, that they have done, come into their heart; but if these come not into their heart, they are not saved by reason of the hardness of their hearts.”
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd-lightfoot.html
Source Post:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/
Conclusion – Proper Full Explanation
Did you notice the following (Context):
1st: “… For the Lord has sworn by his glory, in regard to his elect … if any one of them sin after a certain day which has been fixed, he will not be saved.”
2nd: “… ALL THESE STONES that were REJECTED and would not fit into the building of the TOWER that was REPENTANCE … they participated in the Righteous Word…”
1st: “For the Lord has sworn by his glory, in regard to his elect, that if any one of them sin after a certain day which has been fixed, he will not be saved. For the repentance of the righteous has limits. Filled up are the days of repentance to all the saints … For the Lord has sworn by his Son, that those who denied their Lord have abandoned their life in despair.”
2nd: “Still importunate, I asked her further, whether for ALL THESE STONES that were REJECTED and would not fit into the building of the TOWER that was REPENTANCE, and they had a place in this tower. “THEY CAN REPENT” she said, “but they CANNOT be fitted into THIS TOWER. Yet THEY shall be fitted into ANOTHER PLACE much more humble, but not until they have UNDERGONE TORMENTS and have FULFILLED THE DAYS OF THEIR SINS. And they shall be changed for this reason, because they participated in the Righteous Word;”
Please notice carefully that I am not removing / adding nor am I interpreting but just showing you ‘as it is Written’ in regards to the Real Meaning of ‘Being Saved vs Unsaved in the Context of being His Elect as part of the Tower of Repentance’.
Comment:
Since some of these fallen believers who cannot be His Elect anymore and can be Saved only in the afterlife after undergoing the necessary “… UNDERGONE TORMENTS and have FULFILLED THE DAYS OF THEIR SINS…” (2nd Quote), these are ‘Justified by whose Faith’?
It must be the ‘Faith of Jesus Christ’ and NOT ‘their faith in Christ which ended during their earthly lives’, right?
Hence in light of all these Context in First Christianity, the “Faith” referred to in the infamous quote below by St. Clement of Rome must also refer to the ‘Faith of Jesus Christ only’. For if not, it contradicts the Shepherd of Hermas which clearly shows that there are those who are Saved without any faith in Christ (having been fallen, 2nd Quote above) and NO Christian who still has faith in Christ can ever go through ‘any afterlife Judgment’ (John 5:24), to quote:
Where did St. Clement of Rome Prophesy or Reveal that God in Christ will “Justify All Men” eventually by “Faith*” (i. e. the ‘Faith of Jesus Christ’ or ‘Faith of God’ as apostle Paul mentioned)?
“And so we, having been called through His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves* or through our own wisdom or understanding or piety or works which we wrought in holiness of heart, but through faith, whereby the Almighty God justified all men** that have been from the beginning; to whom be the glory for ever and ever. Amen.” – St. Clement of Rome (c. 35 AD – c. 99 AD, 1 Clement 32:4)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/1clement-lightfoot.html
*Faith of Jesus Christ Discussion in link below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/mystery-faith-jesus-christ-salvation/amp
For God, the Work of Justification is Completed Timelessly in Christ. It’s just being testified or becomes a reality unfolding to each at the Plural-Divinely-appointed-Kairois Times for His “Ransom for All” (1 Timothy 2:6).
“who did give himself a ransom for all — the testimony in its own times –” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 2:6, YLT)
The “All Men from the Beginning” must refer to All Human Beings likewise as such ones are inclusive of those ‘fallen non-Elect believers’ too who are Saved to be in a ‘lower place’ when this quote is seen with the Shepherd of Hermas.
This is the True Meaning of Saved vs Unsaved as it was Taught in First Christianity based on the Scripture of the Shepherd of Hermas itself:
Saved = Being Part of His Elect (believers in faith in this life itself)
Not Saved = Have to go through afterlife Judgments and as the case of the fallen believers show, they can repent & be saved thereafter but may only be placed in the lesser afterlife abodes accordingly but only after they suffer for their sins till the last penny (2nd Quote)
Notice that unbelievers have time to repent till the Last Day (1st Quote) and since the Shepherd of Hermas is referring to the Spiritual World Vision Context, there is NO limit that they can believe there too as per the fallen believers case but probably equivalently after the Judgment for their sins first accordingly, right?
Can we see First Christianity Context more accurately in light of this Shepherd of Hermas Scripture now?
How True as Scripture is the Shepherd of Hermas Writing? Please consider the link below:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shepherd_of_Hermas
Note: Both the (1st Quote) and the (2nd Quote) are from this Same Shepherd of Hermas Scripture Writing. I quoted two sources to illustrate how some in the popular theology only quote a ‘half truth thus blinding the full proper Context of what the whole Truth actually means’.
Please don’t be deceived and Most Blessed be Lord Jesus Christ our Undefeated Champion, Most Beloved Hero and the Greatest Savior of the World!
Please also take note carefully that I am not quoting a church leader but Scripture of the Shepherd of Hermas as it was in First Christianity.
Peace to you
Resurrection of Judgment – Repairing the Destroyed Body and Soul in Gehenna
Verses:
“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:28 – 29, NASB)
“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna).” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 10:28, NASB)
Please note that the Wicked may only attain to this Salvation of ‘Body, Soul’ (the ‘houses in his own definition below’) which must undergo ‘decay/destruction first’ (Matthew 10:28 in Gehenna or the Lake of Fire first, implied) before ‘Renewal, Salvation, Restoration’ as explained in a Parabolic way later below.
What is First Christianity’s Definition of “Body, Soul and Spirit in a Man” as St. Justin Martyr’s own words below reveal?
“For the body is the house of the soul; and the soul the house of the spirit. These three, in all those who cherish a sincere hope and unquestioning faith in God, will be saved.” (‘FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION’ CHAPTER X)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-resurrection.html
The ‘Repairing of the Damaged Body + Soul after Gehenna Judgment (implied)’ – i. e. ‘the same way He Saves believers is shared even to the rest of creation as the glorious liberty from sin’ (Romans 8:20 – 21) where it will be done toward ‘His Enemies too’, says who? To quote:
“We must meet, therefore, those who say, that even though it be the special handiwork of God, and beyond all else valued by Him, it would not immediately follow that it has the promise of the resurrection. Yet is it not absurd, that that which has been produced with such circumstance, and which is beyond all else valuable, should be so neglected by its Maker, as to pass to nonentity? Then the sculptor and painter, if they wish the works they have made to endure, that they may win glory by them, renew them when they begin to decay; but God would so neglect His own possession and work, that it becomes annihilated, and no longer exists. Should we not call this labour in vain? As if a man who has built a house should forthwith destroy it, or should neglect it, though he sees it falling into decay, and is able to repair it: we would blame him for labouring in vain; and should we not so blame God? But not such an one is the Incorruptible,–not senseless is the Intelligence of the universe. Let the unbelieving be silent, even though they themselves do not believe…. And by God and His proclamation, not only has your soul heard and believed on Jesus Christ, and with it the flesh, but both were washed, and both wrought righteousness. They make God, then ungrateful and unjust, if, while both believe on Him, He desires to save one and not the other. Well, they say, but the soul is incorruptible, being a part of God and inspired by Him, and therefore He desires to save what is peculiarly His own and akin to Himself; but the flesh is corruptible, and not from Him, as the soul is. Then what thanks are due to Him, and what manifestation of His power and goodness is it, if He purposed to save what is by nature saved and exists as a part of Himself? For it had its salvation from itself; so that in saving the soul, God does no great thing. For to be saved is its natural destiny, because it is a part of Himself, being His inspiration. But no thanks are due to one who saves what is his own; for this is to save himself. For he who saves a part himself, saves himself by his own means, lest he become defective in that part; and this is not the act of a good man. For not even when a man does good to his children and offspring, does one call him a good man; for even the most savage of the wild beasts do so, and indeed willingly endure death, if need be, for the sake of their cubs. But if a man were to perform the same acts in behalf of his slaves, that man would justly be called good. Wherefore the Saviour also taught us to love our enemies, since, says He, what thank have ye? So that He has shown us that it is a good work not only to love those that are begotten of Him, but also those that are without. And what He enjoins upon us, He Himself first of all does.” – St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, ‘FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION’ CHAPTER VIII)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-resurrection.html
Conclusion – Being Set Free from Sin is Promised to All Men including the Wicked though it be after the Final Judgment and on the Eigth Day (after the Lake of Fire Judgment during the Start/End of the Seventh or Last Day of His 1000 years Millennial Reign) as hinted in quote below too:
“… The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first. “Moreover, the prescription that twelve bells be attached to the [robe] of the high priest, which hung down to the feet, was a symbol of the twelve apostles, who depend on the power of Christ, the eternal Priest; and through their voice it is that all the earth has been filled with the glory and grace of God and of His Christ. Wherefore David also says: ‘Their sound has gone forth into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.’ And Isaiah speaks as if he were personating the apostles, when they say to Christ that they believe not in their own report, but in the power of Him who sent them. And so he says: ‘Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child. Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation. And in short, sirs,” said I, “by enumerating all the other appointments of Moses I can demonstrate that they were types, and symbols, and declarations of those things which would happen to Christ, of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him, and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself. But since what I have now enumerated appears to me to be sufficient, I revert again to the order of the discourse.” – St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER XLI & CHAPTER XLII, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Please also notice ‘carefully’ how St. Justin Martyr distinguishes the Church as One Body vs the Wicked converted as ‘One Child’ as two different entities as follows:
The Wicked becoming Obedient/Subjected – as One Child
“…We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child … and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself …” – St. Justin Martyr
The Church compared as an Analogy to that
“… Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation … of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him,…” – St. Justin Martyr
Please note the popular fallacy (of some) who may think that the ‘wicked referred to in quote above is the Christians before they have repented’. This is a false context as St. Justin’s phrase “… Such a thing as you may witness in the body [of Christ, the Church, implied] …” means that St. Justin is drawing an analogy toward how ‘the Wicked being converted & becoming as One Obedient/Subjected Child’ is similar to the One Body as how Lord Jesus Christ First Did to His Church. Can you see it?
Shalom.
Conclusion
“and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world [Kosmos].” – apostle John (1 John 2:2, NASB)
John 5:22, John 8:15, Luke 23:34, John 12:47 and He Allows the Judgment-part as our choice (the ‘other in John 12:48’) as we decide (John 20:23) and angels decide (Hebrews 2:2) till we forgive too like Him eventually calling the “thirsty-wicked” back from the Lake of Fire too as this is Prophesied to be Done by “His Bride” (Perfected, Christians, His Church) together with Him in the End (Revelation 22:17) as Prophesied also by the Christian-Sibyline Oracles, Apocalypse of Peter, Apocalypse of Elijah and even some ancient variant manuscripts.
Reconciliation from the Lake of Fire (Colossians 1:20) toward ‘All Created things’ (Colossians 1:16) too in the end (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28, 1 Timothy 2:6):
“And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.” – apostle John (Revelations 22:17, NKJV)
where
The Spirit = God
The Bride = Christians
“who thirsts” = anyone who is not yet reconciled to God (e. g. Those in the Lake of Fire, as Fire makes them thirsty)
Free = Free Justification eventually toward “All” as Promised in Holy Scripture by the “Faith of Jesus Christ” (Romans 3:22-KJV) or the ‘Faith of God’ (Romans 3:3-KJV) which never Fails (seen only in accurate word to word translations, Romans 3:4-KJV)
Source Post:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/
Why is this important? (Answer in Image and in Verse below):
“but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things,” declares the LORD.” (Jeremiah 9:24, NASB)
Peace to you
Love of God > Ministry Miracles and Power of the Spirit
Really?
The Bible Teaches so in Consecutive Verses (Selected, Context below):
“Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware… Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord… And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still MORE EXCELLENT WAY…” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 12:1, 4 – 5, 28 – 31, NASB)
Please read the LAST LINE again where apostle Paul himself under the Inspiration of His Holy Spirit declares that there is a MORE EXCELLENT WAY than these great gifts from ‘miracles, healings, tongues’, yes even from the ‘positions in the Church such as apostles, prophets, teachers…’ —-> what is this MORE EXCELLENT WAY that is Greater than all these ‘Great Gifts’?
Apostle Paul continues next as follows (classified as a new chapter but the original Writing reads as one Continuous Letter, Context), to quote:
“1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 13:1 – 13, NASB)
Love in Passage above = Love of God = “Agape”.
Conclusion
In short, if you can practice the Love of God as it is Described in 1 Corinthians 13 in your daily life, apostle Paul Declares that this is a MORE EXCELLENT WAY than all the ‘Christian Ministry or Gifts which are outlined in 1 Corinthians 12’ as the Verse below which connects these two chapters in Context means:
“But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still MORE EXCELLENT WAY.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 12:31, NASB)
P/S: How is the Faith to Love of the Elect Described in the Shepherd of Hermas Writing?
To quote:
“8[16]:1 When then I ceased asking her concerning all these things, she saith to me; “Wouldest thou see something else?” Being very desirous of beholding, I was greatly rejoiced that I should see it.
8[16]:2 She looked upon me, and smiled, and she saith to me, “Seest thou seven women round the tower?” “I see them, lady,” say I. “This tower is supported by them by commandment of the Lord.
8[16]:3 Hear now their employments. The first of them, the woman with the strong hands, is called Faith; through her are saved the elect of God.
8[16]:4 And the second, that is girded about and looketh like a man, is called Continence; she is the daughter of Faith. Whosoever then shall follow her, becometh happy in his life, for he shall refrain from all evil deeds, believing that, if he refrain from every evil desire, he shall inherit eternal life.”
8[16]:5 “And the others, lady, who be they?” “They are daughters one of the other. The name of the one is Simplicity, of the next, Knowledge, of the next, Guilelessness, of the next, Reverence, of the next, Love. When then thou shalt do all the works of their mother, thou canst live.”
8[16]:6 “I would fain know, lady,” I say, “what power each of them possesseth.” “Listen then,” saith she, “to the powers which they have.
8[16]:7 Their powers are mastered each by the other, and they follow each other, in the order in which they were born. From Faith is born Continence, from Continence Simplicity, from Simplicity Guilelessness, from Guilelessness Reverence, from Reverence Knowledge, from Knowledge Love. Their works then are pure and reverent and divine.
8[16]:8 Whosoever therefore shall serve these women, and shall have strength to master their works, shall have his dwelling in the tower with the saints of God.”
8[16]:9 Then I asked her concerning the seasons, whether the consummation is even now. But she cried aloud, saying, “Foolish man, seest thou not that the tower is still a-building? Whensoever therefore the tower shall be finished building, the end cometh; but it shall be built up quickly. Ask me no more questions: this reminder is sufficient for you and for the saints, and is the renewal of your spirits.
8[16]:10 But it was not revealed to thyself alone, but in order that thou mightest show these things unto all. After three days–
8[16]:11 for thou must understand first, and I charge thee, Hermas, first with these words, which I am about to speak to thee–(I charge thee to) tell all these things into the ears of the saints, that hearing them and doing them they may be purified from their wickednesses, and thyself also with them.”
9[17]:1 “Hear me, my children. I brought you up in much simplicity and guilelessness and reverence, through the mercy of the Lord, Who instilled righteousness into you, that ye might be justified and sanctified from all wickedness and all crookedness. But ye will not to cease from your wickedness.
9[17]:2 Now then hear me and be at peace among yourselves, and have regard one to another, and assist one another, and do not partake of the creatures of God alone in abundance, but share them also with those that are in want.
9[17]:3 For some men through their much eating bring weakness on the flesh, and injure their flesh: whereas the flesh of those who have nought to eat is injured by their not having sufficient nourishment, and their body is ruined.
9[17]:4 This exclusiveness therefore is hurtful to you that have and do not share with them that are in want.
9[17]:5 Look ye to the judgment that cometh. Ye then that have more than enough, seek out them that are hungry, while the tower is still unfinished; for after the tower is finished, ye will desire to do good, and will find no place for it.
9[17]:6 Look ye therefore, ye that exult in your wealth, lest they that are in want shall moan, and their moaning shall go up unto the Lord, and ye with your [abundance of good things be shut outside the door of the tower.
9[17]:7 Now therefore I say unto you that are rulers of the Church, and that occupy the chief seats; be not ye like unto the sorcerers. The sorcerers indeed carry their drugs in boxes, but ye carry your drug and your poison in your heart.
9[17]:8 Ye are case-hardened, and ye will not cleanse your hearts and mix your wisdom together in a clean heart, that ye may obtain mercy from the Great King.
9[17]:9 Look ye therefore, children, lest these divisions of yours deprive you of your life.
9[17]:10 How is it that ye wish to instruct the elect of the Lord, while ye yourselves have no instruction? Instruct one another therefore, and have peace among yourselves, that I also may stand gladsome before the Father, and give an account concerning you all to your Lord.”
10[18]:1 When then she ceased speaking with me, the six young men, who were building, came, and took her away to the tower, and other four lifted the couch, and took it also away to the tower. I saw not the face of these, for they were turned away.” – Shepherd of Hermas (Vision 3)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd-lightfoot.html
Peace to you
Christian Dilemma – Who is First and Who is Last?
Question
Is it true that those with the biggest ministries on earth are the first in heaven and vice versa?
Reply
Not necessarily. If such was the case, it would be a great unfairness to the poor & illiterate as these are rarely even celebrated for their faith as opposed to the flattery & support given to the educated & rich.
Explanation, please consider:
“John [the Baptist] answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given him from heaven.” (John 3:27, NASB)
Some may interject and say that it is their hard work. The ability to do the hard work or that your hard work gets supported (for example due to your racial or social-economic advantage) is ‘given’. A same person can work harder than you or be smarter than you & never get the promotion or even the same salary as you. So, how does God balance out these unfairness in the afterlife?
We shall see at the end of this discussion.
Also, it is well known that the Mega Churches are supported by big numbers of believers and only certain people are supported in that way (human discrimination within each believer too in some way – e.g. ‘same race’, ‘same mindset’, ‘money benefit groups’ etc.).
The number of support or ‘how big their success is on earth is no indicator of who is best either’ according to this ancient Verse:
“I again saw under the sun that the race is not to the swift and the battle is not to the warriors, and neither is bread to the wise nor wealth to the discerning nor favor to men of ability; for time and chance overtake them all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:11, NASB)
iii. In Judgment Day’s Reward Perspective toward Believers, Percentage Count & Intent of Love plays the Greatest Roles
Verse:
“And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury. And He saw a poor widow putting in two small copper coins. And He [Lord Jesus Christ] said, “Truly I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all of them; for they all out of their surplus put into the offering; but she out of her poverty put in all that she had to live on.” (Luke 21:1 – 4, NASB)
Comment: On the surface, the rich’s pouring of money (e.g. the modern church’s collection of money in their offerings) may look great as it supports many orphanages etc. but yet Christ Still Maintained that the Poor Widow gave the Most, hence the highest rewards goes to her even though the two coins which she put in may not even have been enough to buy a meal. Can you see it? nothing is judged based on results for that would be unfair to a poor & financially disabled person.
Lord Jesus Christ Explains in Parable below that any Christian can be made Equal to a ‘harder labouring suffering for Christ senior Christian who bore the heat of ministry’, to quote:
“1“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2“When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius for the day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3“And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the market place; 4and to those he said, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ And so they went. 5“Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did the same thing. 6“And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing around; and he said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day long?’ 7“They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’ 8“When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last group to the first.’ 9“When those hired about the eleventh hour came, each one received a denarius. 10“When those hired first came, they thought that they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius. 11“When they received it, they grumbled at the landowner, 12saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you have made THEM EQUAL TO US who have BORNE the BURDEN and the SCORCHING HEAT of the day.’ 13“But he answered and said to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14‘Take what is yours and go, but I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15‘Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is YOUR EYE ENVIOUS because I AM GENEROUS?’ 16“So the LAST shall be FIRST, and the FIRST LAST.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 20:1 – 16, NASB)
Yes, according to these First Christianity Quotes*:
Each Quote below is from Archbishop St. Athanasius the Great, ‘called the Great Father of Orthodoxy in Eastern Orthodoxy’ in his infamous book titled ‘The Paradise of the Holy Fathers’ unless stated otherwise, source:
https://archive.org/stream/ParadiseOfTheHolyFathersV2/ParadiseOfTheHolyFathersV2_djvu.txt
To Quote:
“Abbi Poemen said, If there be three [brethren] to-
gether, and one leadeth a fair life of silent contemplation,
and the other being a weak man giveth thanks, and the
other singeth and prayeth with a lowly mind, all three are
performing work [of EQUAL MERIT].” (Point 237)
To Quote:
” There were two brethren who were the sons of a merchant, and their father died, and they A divided their inheritance between themselves, and unto 604. each one there came five thousand dinars. And one of the brethren divided his inheritance among the churches, and the monasteries, and the poor, and he himself became a monk, and he chose for himself a life of continual silence, and fasting, and prayer; now the other brother built a monastery for himself, and gathered brethren to him, and he took care of the strangers, and the poor, and the sick, whom he received and relieved. When the two brothers were dead there was questioning among the brethren about them, and they went to Abba Pamb6 and asked him, “Which manner of life and condudl ” was the more excellent and exalted?” And having learned from God, he said unto them, “They are both perfedl, and in ” my sight they appear to be of equal merit.” Explain to us
now the old man’s words, for how can the man who is desti-
tute, and the man who hath possessions be equal [in merit]?
The old man said, “Since the whole condudl of these brethren
” was to God, and since whatsoever they did they did it for
“God, with an upright aim, and since the aim of each was
“the same, they appeared to be in the old man’s opinion of
” EQUAL MERIT before God.” (Point 604)
To Quote (in the Context of ‘monks’):
“606. The brethren said: — Abbd Pambd said, “If there be
” three monks in one place, and one of them live in silence [it
“is] well, and if another be sick and he give thanks in his
” weakness, and if another minister to men and relieve them,
” all three of them are in the same service.” Reveal to us now
the mind of this holy man. And Abbd Pambd said, ” If a man dwell in silence for God’s ” sake, and not for the sake of vainglory, or any other human “thing; and if another, who is sick, give thanks to God for ” his sickness, and he endure him that ministereth unto him “with longsufFering, he becometh like unto him that is in ” silence; and if he who ministereth unto men doeth it not for ” a reward of this world, but for God’s sake, and if he con-” straineth himself in everything, and doeth the will of those
” who are ministered unto by him in love and gladness, he
” thus becometh like unto him who shutteth himself up in
” silence, and like unto him that is sick, and in this way the
” work of all three is of EQUAL MERIT.” (Point 606)
Conclusion
It is known that some ‘later desert fathers taught that no Christian can equal the life of a Christian monk even if they obeyed all commandments’. This is NOT accurate as their Founder, St. Anthony the Great (of whom even the Archbishop St, Athanasius the Great wrote a biography titled, ‘Life of Anthony’) declared plainly the Truth that a Christian who Performs God’s Will assigned for his life (e.g. working a secular job as a doctor) by carrying out Charity works or doing good toward others (to the best of his ability) without going into any full time ministry nor even is he known in his city (meaning that he may only affect a few lives of those who come in contact with him as opposed to St. Anthony who has touched the entire city of Alexandria, which is equivalent to a ‘Mega Church’ Exposure in modern context) may still be equal to him. Wait. What?
I repeat, a simple Christian doing God’s Will for his life accordingly may be EQUAL to even the greatest Mega Church Pastor in his city (e.g. St. Anthony the Great) as this Founder of the Desert Father’s Order himself testifies in ‘his own words below’ agreeing in Perfect Context with Christ’s Parable earlier making God Perfectly Fair (as any Christian be it rich or poor, literate or illiterate can thus be EQUAL as long as they fulfill God’s Will for their own lives accordingly), to quote:
“It was revealed to Abba Anthony* in his desert that there was one who was his equal in the city. He was a doctor by profession and whatever he had beyond his needs he gave to the poor, and every day he sang the Sanctus with the angels.”
*Abba Anthony = St. Anthony the Great in our Discussion.
The quote is from the Source below (retrospectively, they are called the ‘Sayings of the Desert Fathers’):
https://www.patristics.co/sayings/
Peace to you
Gifts of The Holy Spirit – Who is a Christian?
St. Cyril of Jerusalem quotes that these are also the Works of the Holy Spirit in which a Direction of a Christian’s Life may follow such a Path (examples):
1) to one chastity
2) to another perpetual virginity
3) to another almsgiving
4) to another voluntary poverty
5) to another power of repelling hostile spirits
Please read his quote in his own words to see if this is so:
“… For it is impossible to testify as a martyr for Christ’s sake, except a man testify by the Holy Ghost; for if no man can say that Jesus Christ is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost2042, how shall any man give his own life for Jesus’ sake, but by the Holy Ghost? Great indeed, and all-powerful in gifts, and wonderful, is the Holy Ghost. Consider, how many of you are now sitting here, how many souls of us are present. He is working suitably for each, and being present in the midst, beholds the temper of each, beholds also his reasoning and his conscience, and what we say, and think, and believe2043. …Consider, I pray, of each nation, Bishops, Presbyters, Deacons, Solitaries, Virgins, and laity besides; and then behold their great Protector, and the Dispenser of their gifts;—how throughout the world He gives to one chastity, to another perpetual virginity, to another almsgiving, to another voluntary poverty, to another power of repelling hostile spirits…” – Blessed St. Cyril, ArchBishop of Jerusalem, Doctor of the Church (c. 313 AD – c. 386 AD, Points 21, 22, Lecture XVI.On the Article, And in One Holy Ghost, the Comforter, Which Spake in the Prophets, via Philip Schaff)
Source:
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf207/npnf207.ii.xx.html
Yes, the Attitude of “Scorning Wealth and Rank” or the ‘Prosperity Gospel’ is Correct and by the Holy Spirit according to St. Cyril of Jerusalem and so, let us not praise money & be found guilty instead of such heresies, to quote:
“… Has not often a man distinguished at court2035, scorned wealth and rank, under the teaching of the Holy Ghost? … Many ways of covetousness are there in the world; yet Christians refuse possessions: wherefore? because of the teaching of the Holy Ghost…” – Blessed St. Cyril, ArchBishop of Jerusalem, Doctor of the Church (c. 313 AD – c. 386 AD, Point 19, Lecture XVI.On the Article, And in One Holy Ghost, the Comforter, Which Spake in the Prophets, via Philip Schaff)
Source:
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf207/npnf207.ii.xx.html
Warning: Let us be Careful of the Wrong Attitude of Doing Ministry only if we are paid (or lying with money like Ananias to Apostle Peter) or if we take Money as a Reward for say a ‘Healing Done free by Another Man of God’ (e. g. the case of Naaman) as St. Cyril writes below:
“… For when he had freely healed the leprosy of Naaman, Gehazi received the reward, the reward of another’s achievement; and he took the money from Naaman, and bestowed it in a dark place. But the darkness is not hidden from the Saints2027. And when he came, Elisseus asked him; and like Peter, when he said, Tell me whether ye 120sold the land for so much2028? he also enquires, Whence comest thou, Gehazi2029? Not in ignorance, but in sorrow ask I whence comest thou? From darkness art thou come, and to darkness shalt thou go; thou hast sold the cure of the leper, and the leprosy is thy heritage. I, he says, have fulfilled the bidding of Him who said to me, Freely ye have received, freely give2030; but thou hast sold this grace; receive now the condition of the sale. But what says Elisseus to him? Went not mine heart with thee? I was here shut in by the body, but the spirit which has been given me of God saw even the things afar off, and shewed me plainly what was doing elsewhere. Seest thou how the Holy Ghost not only rids of ignorance, but invests with knowledge? Seest thou how He enlightens men’s souls?…” – Blessed St. Cyril, ArchBishop of Jerusalem, Doctor of the Church (c. 313 AD – c. 386 AD, Point 17, Lecture XVI.
On the Article, And in One Holy Ghost, the Comforter, Which Spake in the Prophets, via Philip Schaff)
Source:
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf207/npnf207.ii.xx.html
Indeed, the greatest sins against the Spirit of God is linked to people trying to purchase or get His Anointing via Money of which we may ‘perish’ in Judgment first (hence let not such wicked intentions be in us), to quote:
“… and this, though he saw men bringing the prices of the things sold, and laying them at the Apostles’ feet. And he considered not that they who trod under foot the wealth which was brought for the maintenance of the poor, were not likely to give the power of the Holy Ghost for a bribe. But what say they to Simon? Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought to purchase the gift of God with money1993; for thou art a second Judas, for expecting to buy the grace of the Spirit with money. If then Simon, for wishing to get this power for a price, is to perish, how great is the impiety of Manes, who said that he was the Holy Ghost? … – Blessed St. Cyril, ArchBishop of Jerusalem, Doctor of the Church (c. 313 AD – c. 386 AD, Point 10, Lecture XVI.
On the Article, And in One Holy Ghost, the Comforter, Which Spake in the Prophets, via Philip Schaff)
Source:
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf207/npnf207.ii.xx.html
Anyone who is a Martyr for Christ (be it from the Eternal Hell camp or Annihilation Camp or Christ Centered Universalism Camp) are Considered Christians, to quote:
“… For it is impossible to testify as a martyr for Christ’s sake, except a man testify by the Holy Ghost; for if no man can say that Jesus Christ is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost2042, how shall any man give his own life for Jesus’ sake, but by the Holy Ghost? …” – Blessed St. Cyril, ArchBishop of Jerusalem, Doctor of the Church (c. 313 AD – c. 386 AD, Point 21, Lecture XVI.
On the Article, And in One Holy Ghost, the Comforter, Which Spake in the Prophets, via Philip Schaff)
Source:
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf207/npnf207.ii.xx.html
Example of a well known Martyr for Christ from the Christ Centered Universalism Camp:
“… Saint Pamphilus of Caesarea Priest and Martyr, died about 309 AD,… Eusebius’ Martyrs of Palestine attests that Pamphilus was of a rich and honorable family of Beirut. This work also asserts that he gave all his property to the poor and attached himself to the “perfect men”. Photius,[1] quotes Pamphilus’s Apology for Origen to the effect that Pamphilus went to Alexandria, where his teacher was Pierius, the head of the famous catechetical school there, before settling in Caesarea Maritima, where he was ordained a priest. In Alexandria, Egypt, Pamphilus became devoted to the works of Origen of Alexandria. Photius says that Pamphilus was a Phoenician born at Berytus, and a scholar of Pierius, who collected sacred literature. According to Eusebius, he suffered martyrdom in the third year of the Diocletian persecution, after spending two years in prison. While he was in prison, Pamphilus and Eusebius worked together on five books in defense of Origen … While defending Origen from accusations that he held and taught certain heterodox doctrines, Pamphilus endorses universal reconciliation as the orthodox understanding of apokatastasis…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamphilus_of_Caesarea
Please note that St. Pamphilus was not influenced by Origen as it is well known that his ‘Defense for Origen’ opened up with passages speaking bitterly of Origen at first for probably deviating from certain Orthodox Teachings but being Fair, he also defends Origen on the points which he was right & one of it is that St. Pamphilus points that Hell is not eternal, to quote:
“… Of the Apology for Origen only the first book is extant, in a Latin version made by Rufinus. It begins with describing the extravagant bitterness of the feeling against Origen. He was a man of deep humility, of great authority in the Church of his day, and honoured with the priesthood. He was above all things anxious to keep to the rule of faith that had come down from the Apostles. The soundness of his doctrine concerning the Trinity and the Incarnation is then vindicated by copious extracts from his writings…”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamphilus_of_Caesarea
And
“… Pamphilus refutes accusations concerning Origen’s thought on the Trinity, the incarnation, the historicity of Scripture, the resurrection, punishment, the soul and metempsychosis. In the process of defending Origen, Pamphilus affirmed his denial of eternal punishment, therefore the Apology itself was controversial. Pamphilus and Eusebius refuted the accusations made against their hero and defended his views with many passages quoted from his own works….” – History of Coptic Orthodoxy
Source:
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/patrology/schoolofalex2/chapter04.html
Note: Blessed St. Pamphilus of Caesarea’s Student Eusebius becomes Bishop of Caesarea & the Father of Church History as he is known today. To quote – Christ Centered Universalism in Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea Father of Church History
Too much to quote. For example (text in image too):
“Eusebius characterizes the final apokatastasis as unity. [18] He writes that “the times of universal restoration” will be when humanity attains unity (ἡνῶσθαι) with the Logos and in the future aeon all will receive complete restoration. It is significant that Eusebius uses ἀποκατάστασις again here, and thrice at that, to claim that “the apokatastasis of all” will be when all are finally liberated from captivity and can enjoy “the freedom of the glory of the children of God” (with the aforementioned quotation of Rom 8:21): The expression “until the times of restoration” [. . .] indicates to us the world to come, in which all beings [πάντα] must receive the perfect restoration [τῆς τελείας ἀποκαταστάσεως] [. . .] on the occasion of the restoration of all beings [τῆς ἀποκαταστάσεως ἁπάντων] creation itself will be transformed [. . .] from the slavery of corruption to the freedom of the glory of the children of God. C. Marc. 2.4.11 (emphasis mine)”
Plenty of his quotes in support of Christ Centered Universalism as the Ancient First Christianity is found in link below:
So being right on the Doctrine of “Eternal Hell or Annihilation or Christ Centered Universalism” does not disqualify any believer from being a Christian, all other Major Doctrines especially Trinity being Right as in the past, (as shown in earlier posts) the quotes of St. Augustine or St. Basil towards Christian-Universalists or Origen’s toward Eternal-Hell believers also prove likewise or like the Various Denominations of Christianity within each too (God Decides Whom to Save or Judge).
Peace to you
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New Book Titled Last Book - Possibilities and Dangers of Doctrine Free PDF download link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wjDRr6lzDQ-4D60J8sqmDH-S60tCqQIR/view?usp=sharing #LastBook or #PODBook or… Read More
I don't want to write a new book so sorry but please see #MyCV15Oct2023 for latest theological update (hopefully last)… Read More
#BookofDoctrine or #DoctrineBook Latest Update (Free PDF Release): 20 July 2023 Please find the New Book titled "Book of Doctrine… Read More
Latest Update: 6 June 2023 I will just quote some major summary in images (more details in the free pdf… Read More
Latest Update: 28 May 2023 I will just quote some major summary in images (more details in the free pdf… Read More