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Gospel Hope for Non Christians

Mystery of the Marriage of Christ and His Church through the Eyes of the Direct Disciples of the Apostles only

Last Updated: 4 Sep 2022

 

 

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#BibleandChurchFathersQuoteBook

 

Latest Update: 5 Dec 2022

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page of Contents for this #BibleandChurchFathersQuoteBook

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#SafeRouteScripturallyBook

 

Latest Update: 31 Oct 2022

 

This book is written to explain some key Christian Doctrine position we take to be Safe Scripturally highlighting the Risks with Bible Verses for those who do otherwise. This is important to as a Christian because we do not want Christ Questioning us one day regarding ‘Why we didn’t warn others?’ based on Verses below:

 

“… When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you shall surely die!’ and YOU DO NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED FROM HIS WAY, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; BUT HIS BLOOD I WILL REQUIRE AT YOUR HAND. Nevertheless IF YOU WARN the WICKED to TURN FROM HIS WAY, and he does not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but YOU HAVE DELIVERED YOUR SOUL. …” (Ezekiel 33:8 – 9, NKJV)

 

This does not necessarily mean that the opposite positions to what we propose as the Safe Route Scripturally in this Book must we wrong but rather in some cases it could be so if God permitted it. However the risk of the opposite positions is still there because we prove our position with Bible Verses and the opposite positions usually pertain to New Modern Ways which some Christians have claimed that God told them do so especially based on the Progressive Revelation Movement which we do not support.

 

Since only God Knows whether their claims are true or not, we do not judge those Christians letting God Judge them alone. However, we also point out to them to have respect for these First Ways of the Church especially which are Written in Bible Verses because the Doctrinal Position we demonstrate is already Plainly Written in Holy Scripture and so it is already 100% Approved by New Testament Scripture and the First Churches which obeyed it are already Saved by Practicing it and that’s why we seek to Imitate Scripture likewise.  Big number of Christians following a Doctrine or believing in something is not necessarily a sign of Truth which is easy to prove for any Protestants since no matter what blessing or evangelism they claim, the Roman Catholics beat them in financial blessings to number of souls and so by that logic, does it justify Praying to Virgin Mary? So claiming such proofs is not Biblical but rather we point to Bible Verses only for each claim.

 

 

The free pdf may be found in link below:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HUXXa2kgpImEpVWFg4AN0SBc0x4ulSLn/view?usp=share_link

 

Thank you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

“Prosperity Testimony” – Questions to Ponder

 

A General Scenario: Imagine your country has majority of religion A and race B but a person of religion C and race D becomes its king by Democracy. So if that “king” comes and gives a testimony of his life, would you leave your religion and convert to that instead?

 

This is a reason “why” I do “not” believe in any “Prosperity” as a

“sign of truth”.

 

The “king” may be from subrace D1 while the others from his native country may be from subrace D2, D3, … where even among them they won’t support those of another subrace easily or if any from their subrace is not of the same religion of C, can you see it?

 

In fact, they won’t even allow subrace D2, D3, etc. to marry those of subrace D1 or some selected subrace only to do so. But despite such racism hidden within their own hearts even, they can be among the “richest” people in the world too. God Will Reveal everything One Day.

 

While people from race D or others wish to be “king” in the land of majority religion A and race B, in their own “native land/motherland” NO ONE from race B or others who do not believe in religion C will ever be a “king” there (in their “motherland”) by “democracy”, an irony isn’t it?

 

The only “Genuine Truth” here I see is that the people of majority religion A and race B have been able to PRACTICE JUSTICE beyond their own religion A and race B which itself puts them at a MORAL LEVEL that is UNSURPASSED by their other counterparts. The day the others can do similarly in not just “appointing a king” but also in “other matters of business and life” then they get closer to “God’s Truth”. Till then, it’s just a “prosperity game” which is an “illusion” which destroys one in the “spirit world”.

 

A similar thing can be seen in regards to “Prosperity Churches” vs “Poorer Churches” likewise in analogy.

 

That’s why Christ put the Command of PERFECTION not as “prosperity” but the CHARITY DOCTRINE:

 

“… 21JESUS said to him, “IF you want to be PERFECT, go, SELL what YOU HAVE and GIVE to the POOR, and YOU WILL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN; and come, FOLLOW ME.” 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away SORROWFUL, for he had GREAT POSSESSIONS. 23Then JESUS said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is HARD for a RICH MAN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. 24And AGAIN I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. …” (Matthew 19:21 – 24, NKJV)

 

That’s why in CHRIST’s OWN WORDS here we see that the GREATEST NUMBER is “ZERO” for those who can do “ZERO PROSPERITY” of “… SELL what YOU HAVE and GIVE to the POOR, and YOU WILL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN; and come, FOLLOW ME. …” which I CANNOT DO (so even a scrap of heaven or at the final new earth would suffice for me) but the Greatest Fathers of the Church the world has even known (as I have quoted say in the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook) have done it remarkably. Please note that letting go of wealth and living like a hermit does NOT count much if the “wealth was left to the family” earlier as that person by relative measure did NOT give anything to the poor. I mean the best is to give some to family and according to one’s ability give to the poor as well.

 

An Edifying Comment: Can the country of origin of such persons allow those NOT of same race NOR of same religion to hold such portfolio likewise? (or will they never vote for such even if the candidate is good? NOT just in POLITICS but any field too like for example in Education even they grab the “paying teaching opportunities to themselves instead of the candidate of best qualification among them even” as that’s their “moral level even toward same race but different religion” is only at that level of “prejudice” even. So, Let all Answer God One Day).

 

Conclusion

 

You see it is People who send themselves to “Hell” (even if “Eternal so be it”) due to “their own injustice and unholiness within them” as these few points in comparison itself shows.

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Especially those which affect the “future in the Spirit World and beyond” after we die toward the “Resurrection”.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

St. Ambrose of Milan seems to be very CONFIDENT of SUCH NON ELECT SALVATION from the LAKE of FIRE CONTEXT as his quotes next seem to point, right?

 

 

 

 

 

Source: https://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/sib/sib04.htm

 

 

Image shows the “Number of Manuscripts” where for the earliest centuries these are “fragments” and account for the “Entire New Testament” and if for the “earliest centuries” are ‘so few in number (where the Bible we have is a result of copyists Scribes) meaning these are the “earliest preserved evidence of those copyists ones itself across ALL CHRISTIANITY” which when dated is “so few” in “number“, isn’t it’ [from Page 1948 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript

 

Why? Perhaps God DOES NOT DEPEND on NUMBER OF MANUSCRIPTS beyond thatONLY GOD KNOWS WHY” (We can Ask Him One Day).

 

Peace to you

Page 1867 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook .

Page 1908 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook

 

Source for Image next: https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/jts/032_270.pdf

 

#IgnoredChristianDoctrineBook

 

Latest Update: 19 February 2022

 

This book is written to look at how some Christian Doctrines are Ignored by some modern Christians as not so important.  Therefore we try our  best not to repeat the usual Doctrines which are already well Revealed and accepted across mainstream Christianity such as the Doctrine of Trinity to the Doctrine of Holiness and rather choose to Speak about the other New Testament Bible Verses which pertain to some of these Ignored Doctrines and Possibilities so that a Christian may decide his walk of faith better and not be discouraged by empty words against it sometimes (by those who preach a simplified saved by Grace Doctrine ignoring the fruits of Salvation or in some cases ignoring the Rewards Doctrine for Works as Revealed for this New Testament).

 

The free pdf may be found in link below:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DZcb07EAX5z1wcg7BMMY5GwCkUpc76J3/view?usp=sharing

 

Thank you

 

#MysteryoftheKingdomofHeavenBook

 

Please find the Latest Draft of a New Book Titled  “Mystery of the Kingdom of Heaven in First Christianity” (Completed 31 January 2022) in pdf (free download/viewing) in link below:

.

.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-zX7XgzguBYHkXWucUZ6xfMInbwtj0Z3/view?usp=sharing

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Short Description of Book

 

This Book explores the Mystery of the Kingdom of Heaven beginning with Christ’s Most Blessed Words Found in Holy Scripture and explores related Bible Verses and other First Christianity Quotes especially from the Church Fathers who were direct disciples of the Apostles themselves or their disciples to understand this better and explore related topics by giving Church History examples too where relevant.

 

Thank you

 

 

Free E-Books are Available in link below including the latest one titled:

https://play.google.com/store/books/author?id=Jonathan+Ramachandran

 

 

Here’s another Draft of a new book too

 

 

Here’s another Draft of a new book too

 

#CharityDoctrineBook

 

This Book explores mostly the Bible Verses related to the Charity Doctrine aspect apart from looking at some other related topics regarding Christian Perfection. Its contents are not well listed out but for a keen reader it will be more of a treasure hunt for Bible Verses on such Topics together with First Christianity quotes in support of it where possible. A 100 year old or 500 year old Christianity cannot fully Reveal 2000 year old Christianity’s Mysteries and Secrets.

 

The free pdf may be found in link below:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MiCYDzxbOc0yAZhT9Es9U7yL6XLuV0Qz/view?usp=sharing

 

 

Thank you

 

#EternalHellAnnihilationandUniversalismBook

 

Please find the Latest Draft of a New Book Titled

 

“Eternal Hell Annihilation and Universalism in Christianity – Can all three be true A Look with the Apostolic Fathers” (Completed 24 December 2021) in pdf (free download/viewing) in link below:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N5bK-LoBAg4VQN8eLtVWsqkQyoGE0Ad_/view?usp=sharing

 

Short Description of Book

 

This Book explores the Bible Verses to see whether Eternal Hell Annihilation and Universalism in Christianity can be true simultaneously in some way especially from writings of the Church Fathers who were direct disciples of the Apostles themselves or their disciples to understand this better via those writings called the Apostolic Fathers. We only quote the Apostolic Fathers Writings as modern Scholarship calls it such since these are the earliest Christian Writings known and which were accepted in First Christianity. The later fathers and Christians even if 1 million of them believe in it can err since they may be repeating what one particular church father has said or interpreted. In light of this fact, it may be best to look at these earliest and best ones known to Christianity outside the Bible.

 

Thank You

 

 

 

 

Re-Emphasized – What did St. Augustine of Hippo Teach about the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle and its Relation to Eternal Life?

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/pfbid0SgcYWxumk1DG1ubXS1JqSsrP7Ek8vNtW1HGXYk27KGFv148DrzSuvzuMgFAxvtQ5l

 

 

Firstly, if you think I am heretic, think again about St. Augustine’s clear quotes here and see if he is a heretic too for contemplating this “Doctrine” as quoted next (Let God Decide who/which is right while to be “Safe Scripturally“, it’s best to “prepare” likewise too as “All of First Christianity taught this #CharityDoctrineLifestyle “).

 

[To quote from Page 1703 onward of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Even St. Augustine of Hippo did NOT see this as a ‘small matter’ but a MAJOR DOCTRINE in that CHRISTIANS who LOVE PROSPERITY or do “not” have enough #CharityDoctrineLifestyle (implied) are only saved AFTER SOME PURGATORY FIRE first AFTER DEATH (so even St. Augustine NEVER saw CHRIST’s SAVING POWER hindered if salvation was available in the Spirit World AFTER JUDGMENT as Calvinism strongly opposes):

 

“…”69. It is not incredible that something like this should occur after this life, whether or not it is a matter for fruitful inquiry. It may be discovered or remain hidden whether SOME of the FAITHFUL are sooner or later to be SAVED by a sort of PURGATORIAL FIRE, in PROPORTION as they have LOVED THE GOODS that PERISH, and in PROPORTION to THEIR ATTCHMENT TO THEM.“[63] …” – Blessed St. Augustine of Hippo, Doctor of the Church, who influenced virtually all of subsequent Western philosophy and Catholic theology, as well as a significant amount of Protestant theology, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church     (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD, [63] “St. Augustine, Enchiridion: On Faith, Hope, and Love (1955). English translation”)

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory

 

 

In his famous  quote here, St. Augustine of Hippo is talking about the CONTEXT of the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle  for the CONTEXT OF REMOVAL OF JUDGMENT OF SINS based on the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE LIVED FIRST in LIFE PRIOR before SALVATION in the SPIRIT WORLD is granted (though he limits this occurrence to ‘Christians only’ which is DEBATABLE especially with the SHEPHERD of HERMAS or other Church Father quotes etc. but the POINT that CHARITY DOCTRINE  is ESENTIAL for FRUIT of ETERNAL LIFE is clearly Taught in First Christianity), in St. Augustine’s own words below too (which is from the same quote above but different translation and fuller, as I said the fact remains the same regardless of the source):

 

“… Chapter 69. It is Not Impossible that Some Believers May Pass Through a Purgatorial Fire in the Future Life. … And it is not impossible that something of the same kind may take place even after this life. It is a matter that may be inquired into, and either ascertained or left doubtful, whether SOME BELIEVERS SHALL PASS through a KIND OF PURGATORIAL FIRE, and in PROPORTION AS THEY HAVE LOVED WITH MORE or LESS DEVOTION THE GOODS THAT PERISH, BE LESS OR MORE QUICKLY DELIVERED FROM IT. This cannot, however, be the case of any of those of whom it is said, that they shall not inherit the kingdom of God, unless after SUITABLE REPENTANCE THEIR SINS be FORGIVEN THEM. WHEN I SAY SUITABLE, I mean that THEY ARE NOT TO BE UNFRUITFUL in ALMSGIVING; for HOLY SCRIPTURE LAYS SO MUCH STRESS ON THIS VIRTUE, THAT our LORD TELLS US BEFOREHAND, that HE WILL ASCRIBE NO MERIT to THOSE ON HIS RIGHT HAND but THAT THEY ABOUND IN IT, and no defect to those on His left hand but their want of it, when He shall say to the former, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom, and to the latter, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire. ” … Chapter 70. Almsgiving Will Not Atone for Sin Unless the Life Be Changed. …We must beware, however, lest any one should suppose that gross sins, such as are committed by those who shall not inherit the kingdom of God, may be daily perpetrated, and daily atoned for by almsgiving. The life must be changed for the better; and almsgiving must be used to propitiate God for past sins, not to purchase impunity for the commission of such sins in the future. For He has given no man license to sin, although in His mercy He may blot out sins that are already committed, if we do not neglect to make proper satisfaction.  …” – Blessed St. Augustine of Hippo, Doctor of the Church, who influenced virtually all of subsequent Western philosophy and Catholic theology, as well as a significant amount of Protestant theology, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD, [63]  Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love (St. Augustine) Translated by J.F. Shaw. From Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series, Vol. 3. Edited by Philip Schaff. (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Publishing Co., 1887.) Revised and edited for New Advent by Kevin Knight.”) Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1302.htm

 

So since St. Augustine of Hippo is saved even according to John Calvin himself (the founder of Reformed Churches) and if he taught this Doctrine, we can too and be saved where we debate on its accuracy using other First Christianity writing whether or not this refers to fallen Christians only or beyond even as a “non-Elect Salvation” too. can you “see” it?

 

Also the “Opinion of St. Augustine” is very important indeed simply because even Blessed John Calvin (Founder of the Reformed Church Protestants) himself learnt his theology from St. Augustine’s Writings. Example quote:

“…  Augustine is so wholly within me, that if I wished to write a confession of my faith, I could do so with all fullness and satisfaction to myself out of his writings  …” – Blessed John Calvin, Protestant Reformer Theologian (Creator of the Five Point Calvinism or Tulips Doctrine for Protestanism)

Source: Calvin, John. A Treatise on the Eternal Predestination of God. in Calvin, John (1987). Calvin’s Calvinism. Translated by Henry Cole. Grandville, MI: Reformed Free Publishing Association. p. 38  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustinian_Calvinism

Let God Decide who is right and reward that and also have Mercy on our Theological Errors (either way).

 

Peace to you

 

The Difficult Elect Salvation

“… Because narrow is the gate and DIFFICULT is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. …” (Matthew 7:14, NKJV)

[Compare from Pages 1597 and 1599 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

Roman Catholic Version of Purgatory Contradicted by the Shepherd of Hermas [Text]

[Partial Quotes are from Pages 1582 to 1585 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Eternal Pre-Existence of Lord Jesus Christ Described in the Shepherd of Hermas [Text]
[Partial Quotes are from Pages 1572 to 1573 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

Spirit of Christ Phrase or Equivalent from Bible Examples as per the Shepherd of Hermas

[Partial Quotes are from Pages 1570/3 to 1591/4 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Martin Luther – the First Protestant as the Model for the Safe Route Scripturally Way

 

1) Martin Luther never believed in Women Pastors not even as a possibility

 

2) Martin Luther never believed in Pre-Tribulation Rapture not even as a possibility

 

3) Martin Luther believed in the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as part of the Interpretation of the Five Wise vs Five Foolish Virgins Parable of Christ regarding the Bride and Denial

 

4) Martin Luther may not have believed in Universalism but he never condemned Universalists as heretics but rather called some of them as “renown” and called them “part of among him group” (indicating acceptance) and he was open to the POSSIBILITY of a non-Elect Salvation AFTER DEATH via faith (‘believing after seeing’ type) though he claims none can prove it.

 

5) Martin Luther did not believe in a 66 Books  Bible either but was open to the Apocrypha either partly or because he was not sure 100% but yet he called them as “good” and it was included in the First 1611 KJV Bible

 

6) Martin Luther never spoke in tongues nor even knew of such gifts to be existent as he was a cessationist except for continuation of the gifts of prophecy, healing and deliverance

 

If this is what made the FIRST SPIRIT LED PROTESTANT as the case of MARTIN LUTHER PROVES, then I AM CERTAINLY a PROTESTANT likewise.  Are you?

Now let’s  see “each claim” above with some “proof” and “details” next.

Why Martin Luther?

 

Every Protestant agree that he is SPIRIT FILLED and SAVED. So following how he understood theology cannot lead to Hell.

 

1) Martin Luther never believed in Women Pastors not even as a possibility

 

[ To quote from Page 517 to 574 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Note: I will only Quote “Martin Luther, the First Protestant” because any Protestant Christian must agree that ‘he is saved’ and if we preach ‘harshly’ like him even in regards to this Topic (there is “no” Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit Risk at all) and so please consider his following example quotes:

 

“… 1.    In his great treatise ‘On the Councils and the Church’ (1539) Luther sets out seven external marks of the church. He has this to say about the fifth mark, ‘the fact that the church consecrates or calls ministers, or has offices that it is to administer’. After a wonderful paragraph in which he quotes Ephesians 4:8-11 (‘he gave apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers’) and speaks of the need to entrust the pastoral ministry to one person, he goes on:

 

[Truth or Blasphemy against the Most Blessed Holy Spirit either way, you decide ]

 

“… It is, however, true that the Holy Spirit has excepted women, children, and incompetent people from this function, but chooses (except in emergencies) only competent males to fill this office, as one reads here and there in the epistles of St. Paul that a bishop must be pious, able to teach, and the husband of one wife – and in 1 Corinthians 14:34 he says, ‘The women should keep silence in the churches’. In summary, it must be a competent and chosen man. Children, women, and other persons are not qualified for this office, even though they are able to hear God’s word, to receive baptism, the sacrament, absolution, and are also true, holy Christians, as St. Peter says …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith  (1 Pet 3:7 – Luther’s Works, American Edition 41:154, 155).

 

[Comment: In the first line Martin Luther, the First Protestant’s phrase is against ANY WOMAN PASTOR as he SAYS THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT NEVER MAKES WOMAN PASTORS in the phrase here ‘… true that the Holy Spirit has excepted women, …’. Is this True or a possible Unforgivable Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by Martin Luther? I just reveal the facts, you decide]

 

[Notice that Martin Luther  also calls Apostle Peter as “Saint Peter = St. Peter” (so this usage is approved too) in the last line].

Those who claim the women’s ordination issue is merely a matter of pastoral practice, not church doctrine, should take note of where the above paragraph is located. Luther’s comments form a sub-section of his treatment of the fifth essential mark of the church, its consecration and calling of pastors. This fifth mark follows other weighty topics of Christian teaching: ‘possession of the holy word of God’, ‘the holy sacrament of baptism’, ‘the holy sacrament of the altar’, and ‘the office of the keys exercised publicly’.

 

  1. The second place is the Reformer’s treatise on ‘Infiltrating and Clandestine Preachers’ from 1532, where his discussion runs through several pages (LW 40:388-391). Here Luther discusses in detail the role of women prophets in both the Old and the New Testaments (390). Nonetheless, he goes on to say:

 

“… But in the New Testament the Holy Spirit, speaking through St. Paul, ordained that women should be silent in the churches and assemblies (1 Cor 14:34), and said that this is the Lord’s commandment. Yet he knew that previously Joel (2:28,29) had proclaimed that God would pour out his Spirit also on handmaidens. Furthermore, the four daughters of Philip prophesied (Acts 21:9). But in the congregations or churches where there is a ministry women are to be silent and not preach (1 Timothy 2:12). Otherwise they may pray, sing, praise, and say ‘Amen’, and read at home, teach each other, exhort, comfort and interpret the Scriptures as best they can (LW 40:390, 391).  …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith

 

  1. In a sermon on Joel 2:28 (‘I will pour out my Spirit…; your sons and your daughters shall prophecy’) Luther comments:

 

“… The four daughters of Philip were prophetesses. A woman can do thisnot preach in public, but console and teach – a woman can do this just as much as a man.  There are certainly women and girls who are able to comfort others and teach true words, that is to say, who can explain Scripture and teach and console other people…this all counts as prophesying, not preaching …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith  (Sermon on Joel 2:28 (1531) Weimar Ausgabe [Weimar Edition] XXXIV, p 483).

 

 

 

 

  1. Luther addresses the issue in a similar vein in a number of other places: ‘Lectures on 1 Timothy’ (Luther’s Works 28:276,77); ‘Sermons on the First Epistle of Peter (LW 30:54,55, 88); ‘The misuse of the mass’ (LW 36:151,52). There can be no doubt concerning his firm adherence to the apostolic teaching of 1 Corinthians 14:34. For Luther, God’s will regarding women’s ordination is made crystal clear in the Scriptures. If it was so clear to him and to the Christian church through nearly two millennia, we may well ask: Why is it now widely claimed that these passages are unclear?

 

Protestant Source: https://thetruthinlove.net/martin-luther-on-women-pastors/

 

Comment: If any Protestant Church accepts Martin Luther, the First Protestant even if he preaches the above, then similarly they should accept us too if they are “not” hypocrites if we ‘preach the same as him’. Can you see it? (That’s why they must be careful or will be judged by their own harsh judgments toward those who follow all this as “with the Judgment you judge it will be measured back to you” as Christ Warned in Matthew 7:1 – 2).

 

Here’s another famous one:

 

“… Where THERE IS A MAN, THERE NO WOMAN SHOULD TEACH OR HAVE AUTHORITY. Where there is no man, Paul has allowed that they can do this, because it happens by a man’s command. He wants to save the order preserved by the world—that a man be the head of the woman, as 1 Cor. 11:3 tells us. … Then comes the teaching, and PAUL DOES NOT ENTRUST THE MINISTRY OF THE WORD TO HER. He CONSIDERS THIS THE GREATEST THING THAT GOES ON IN THE CHURCH. You must always understand this with the condition that men are present. Paul says this that there may be peace and harmony in the churches when the Word is taught and people pray. There would be a disturbance if some woman wished to argue against the doctrine that is being taught by a man. The method of 1 Cor. 14 has now perished. I could wish it were still in effect, but it causes great strife. Where a man teaches, there is a wellrounded argument against a man. If she wishes to be wise, let her argue with her husband at home. …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith (Martin Luther, “Lectures on 1 Timothy” [1528], Luther’s Works, Vol. 28 [Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1973], pp. 276-77)

Protestant Source (Page 12, with much more in detail in pdf in link below):

https://www.angelfire.com/ny4/djw/LutherGenderMinistry.pdf

or this source too:

https://www.covenanter.org/reformed/2016/5/25/commentary-on-1-timothy-29-14

Summary

 

Why?

 

Our Position: “… Judge not and you won’t be judged …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (Matthew 7:1 – 2).

 

Details (I repeat for clarification):

 

This does not necessarily mean that the opposite positions to what we propose as the Safe Route Scripturally in this Book must we wrong but rather in some cases it could be so if God permitted it.

 

However the risk of the opposite positions is still there because we prove our position with Bible Verses and the opposite positions usually pertain to New Modern Ways which some Christians have claimed that God told them do so especially based on the Progressive Revelation Movement which we do not support.

 

Since only God Knows whether their claims are true or not, we do not judge those Christians letting God Judge them alone. However, we also point out to them to have respect for these First Ways of the Church especially which are Written in Bible Verses because the Doctrinal Position we demonstrate is already Plainly Written in Holy Scripture and so it is already 100% Approved by New Testament Scripture and the First Churches which obeyed it are already Saved by Practicing it and that’s why we seek to Imitate Scripture likewise.

 

Big number of Christians following a Doctrine or believing in something is not necessarily a sign of Truth which is easy to prove for any Protestants since no matter what blessing or evangelism they claim, the Roman Catholics beat them in financial blessings to number of souls and so by that logic, does it justify Praying to Virgin Mary?

 

So claiming such proofs is not Biblical but rather we point to Bible Verses only for each claim.

 

 

Why do we take ANY NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS SERIOUSLY?

 

  1. i) A CROWNING is PROMISED for OBEYING these NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS

 

  1. ii) The POSSIBLE CONDEMNATION aspect if NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS are NOT upheld

 

iii) Rebellion of Korah POSSIBILITY

 

 

Details for each claim above with ACTUAL BIBLE VERSES:

 

  1. i) A CROWNING is PROMISED for OBEYING these NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS

 

[ To quote from Page 524 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Please remember that NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS were Preached even by Blessed Martin Luther, Blessed John Cavin, Blessed Charles Spurgeon, Blessed John Wesley or even the Church Fathers Taught? (Are all these great man of God “Prideful” for obeying and teaching “Written New Testament Traditions“?) I have discussed some quotes in detail by each Protestant Founder or Saint above in several pages in the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.

 

What the Bible has “Praised” no man can condemn (for example obeying these “New Testament Traditions”) even beyond the Corinthian Church even at the Thessalonian Church too, Verses:

 

“… 1IMITATE ME, just as I also IMITATE CHRIST. 2Now I PRAISE you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and KEEP the TRADITIONS just as I delivered them to you. …” (1 Corinthians 11:1 – 2, NKJV)

 

“… Therefore, brethren, STAND FAST AND HOLD THE TRADITIONS which YOU WERE TAUGHT, WHETHER BY WORD OR OUR EPISTLE. …” (2 Thessalonians 2:15, NKJV)

 

In fact, when we “withdraw” from any “Church” which does “not” obey even these New Testament “Traditions“, we are “Obeying this Command“:

 

“… But we COMMAND YOU, BRETHREN, in the NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, that you WITHDRAW FROM EVERY BROTHER who walks DISORDERLY and NOT ACCORDING TO THE TRADITION which he received from us. …” (2 Thessalonians 3:6, NKJV)

 

 No one is “ever ruined” by Teaching and Obeying New Testament “Traditions/Rules” and in fact may be “Crowned“, Verse:

 

“… 5And also if anyone competes in athletics, he is NOT CROWNED unless he COMPETES ACCORDING to THE RULES. … 14REMIND them of THESE THINGS, charging them before the Lord not to [d]strive about words to no profit, to the RUIN OF THE HEARERS. … ” (2 Timothy 2:5, 14, NKJV)

 

  1. ii) The POSSIBLE CONDEMNATION aspect if NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS are NOT upheld

 

[ To quote from Page 1641 to 1642 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Human Beings have the FREE CHOICE to CAST OFF FAITH too (by their action solely without God forcing that) as this Verse demonstrates clearly “as it is Written” even just for disobeying a “New Testament Tradition” even (not even a 10 Commandment or anything which general Christianity would call as “serious” even but GOD’S WORD CONSIDERED this as SERIOUS): Yes even WIDOWS who receive help from “Church Money” later when they need it due to old age are NOT exempt from living the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle earlier, highlight for this part from above:

 

“…  8But if anyone DOES NOT PROVIDE for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has DENIED THE FAITH and is WORSE THAN AN UNBELIEVER. 9Do not let a widow under sixty years old be taken into the number, and not unless she has been the wife of one man, 10WELL REPORTED FOR GOOD WORKS: if she has BROUGHT UP CHILDREN, if SHE HAS LODGED STRANGERS, if she has washed the saints’ feet, if she has RELIEVED THE AFFLICTED, IF SHE HAS DILIGENTLY FOLLOWED EVERY GOOD WORK. 11But [c]refuse the younger widows; for when they have begun to grow wanton against Christ, they desire to marry, 12having condemnation because they have CAST OFF THEIR FIRST [D]FAITH.. …” (1 Timothy 5:8 – 12, NKJV)

Please allow me to highlight: This clearly is described as “… having CONDEMNATION [Judgment] for having CAST OFF THEIR FIRST FAITH …” [1 Timothy 5:12] to “… DENIED the FAITHWORSE than an UNBELIEVER …” [1 Timothy 5:8] as these ‘Bible Verses’ (“not” me) WARN using such HARSH WORDS even with “no” other sin mentioned apart from ‘breaking just a New Testament Tradition’ (i.e.  all other factors held constant, even without even a 10 Commandment mentioned to broken by ‘such Christian Converts’) as “it is Written“.

 

[ To quote from Page 177 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

 

However the “Spiritual Woman Leadership” position does “not” exist in the Bible (earthly leadership of being a Boss in the Workplace or CEO or Prime Minister all CAN for a WOMAN) “nor” did “spiritual women leadership” exist in CHRISTIAN HISTORY itself till only after the 1900’s even WITHIN PROTESTANT CHRISTIANITY ITSELF where GOD has EVANGELIZED the WORLD WITHOUT a SINGLE WOMAN PASTOR EVEN and WITHOUT A SINGLE CHARISMATIC GIFT even among the PROTESTANT FOUNDERS AND CHAMPIONS OF FAITH. God has Mercy on whomever He Wills.

 

This is “not’ to run down woman or anything but to uphold what is Written in the Word of God instead of doing whatever way we like (for one day if God Says, I never Commanded these new ways, what are you going to do?) The opposite position of just following what is Written and was done even by Blessed Martin Luther (the First Protestant) in this area or even Blessed Charles Spurgeon (the Prince of Preachers) which I have quoted in previous books (example pages 46 to 74 in this Book itself) regarding this Topic together with even Church Fathers which proves that it has been approved 100% Scripturally and serves as “no” risk and thus the “Safe Route Scripturally”.

 

The main point is this: Since “Obedience is better than Sacrifice” (1 Samuel 15:22), A WOMAN GETS RESPECTED ACCORDING TO THE RESPECT SHE GIVES TO THE WORD OF GOD in this area. If she DOES NOT RESPECT THE NEW TESTAMENT VERSES, neither does she deserve any respect according to the measure she disrespected the Word of God in this area. Likewise for men also be it for THESE NEW TESTAMENT VERSES or others also which is very logical based on Matthew 5:19 – 20 that “breaking and teaching to break any command of Christ makes one least only in the Kingdom of Heaven” which includes these NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS as CHRIST INSTRUCTED THEM TO APOSTLE PAUL in say 1 Corinthians 14:37 and so IT IS NOT A CULTURAL COMMAND BUT FROM THE LORD. In fact, the “Greek Christian Culture” did “not” have such practices and Apostle Paul introduced them to these Commands of the Lord.

 

iii) Rebellion of Korah POSSIBILITY

 

[ To quote from Page 564 to 566 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

“… Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the REBELLION OF KORAH. …” (Jude 1:11, NKJV)

 

What did Korah and his gang desire?

 

Basically they think that anyone in the Christian assembly is fit to do the work of the priest (“Christian” being the general metaphor here permitted by Apostle Jude’s usage to the New Testament in analogy above)

 

“… 1Now KORAH the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, with Dathan and Abiram the sons of Eliab, and On the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men; 2and they rose up before Moses with some of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty leaders of the congregation, representatives of the congregation, men of renown. 3They gathered together AGAINST MOSES AND AARON, and said to them, “You [a]take too much upon yourselves, for ALL THE CONGREGATION IS HOLY, EVERY ONE OF THEM, AND THE LORD is AMONG THEM. Why then DO YOU EXALT YOURSELVES ABOVE THE ASSEMBLY OF THE LORD?” …” (Numbers 16:1 – 3, NKJV)

 

 

What is it? Why was God so Angry with Korah?

 

“… 40to be a [f]memorial to the children of Israel that NO OUTSIDER, WHO IS NOT A DESCENDANT of AARON, should COME NEAR TO OFFER INCENSE BEFORE THE LORD, that he might NOT BECOME LIKE KORAH AND HIS COMPANIONS, just as the Lord had said to him through Moses. …”

 

Since Apostle St. Jude quotes this “REBELLION of KORAH” Context in the “New Testament“, though the Levitical PRIESTHOOD has ENDED making way for the Melchizedek Priesthood, the analogy of “Church Order” seems to be implied.

 

I mean we cannot say for sure what Apostle St. Jude means in full but basically it deals with “Church Order” and the Church Order Commands of the New Testament are  clearly Found in New Testament Traditions which are largely ignored by modern Churches.

 

Just because Judgment doesn’t happen immediately to those who disobey like it did for Korah (who on the surface just seemed to be asking for an innocent thing namely, anyone in the Church to be able to serve at the altar and do incense or even priest work during Old Testament times) but even this merited a straight ticket to “Hell Alive”. So what if any REBELLION AGAINST NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS OF CHURCH ORDER is considered a REBELLION OF KORAH likewise?

 

I am “not” saying that it must be so but POSSIBLE, Right? So as long as a “Risk” is there, I rather not do it against these Verses. Example of Congregation Order observed not just by the Corinthians Church but “all Churches of the Saints” with “no alternate Customs practiced

 

“… 1IMITATE ME, JUST AS I ALSO IMITATE CHRIST. 2Now I PRAISE YOU, BRETHREN, that you REMEMBER me in all things and KEEP THE TRADITIONS just as I delivered them to you. 3But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head. 5But EVERY WOMAN WHO PRAYS OR PROPHESIES with HER HEAD UNCOVERED DISHONORS her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved  … 16But if anyone seems to be CONTENTIOUS, we have NO SUCH CUSTOM, NOR DO THE CHURCHES OF GOD. … 7For a MAN INDEED OUGHT NOT TO COVER HIS HEAD, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man … 10For THIS REASON THE WOMAN OUGHT to have a SYMBOL OF AUTHORITY on HER HEAD, BECAUSE OF THE ANGELS …13Judge among yourselves. Is it PROPER FOR A WOMAN TO PRAY TO GOD WITH HER HEAD UNCOVERED? 14Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? 15But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given [a]to her for a covering. 16But if ANYONE SEEMS TO BE CONTENTIOUS, WE HAVE NO SUCH CUSTOM, NOR DO THE CHURCHES OF GOD … 32And the SPIRITS OF THE PROPHETS are SUBJECT TO THE PROPHETS. 33For GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF [I]CONFUSION but of PEACE, as in ALL THE CHURCHES OF THE SAINTS. 34Let [j]YOUR WOMEN KEEP SILENT IN THE CHURCHES, for they are NOT PERMITTED TO SPEAK; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is SHAMEFUL FOR WOMEN TO SPEAK IN CHURCH. 36Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37If ANYONE THINKS HIMSELF TO BE a PROPHET or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things WHICH I WRITE to you are the COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD. …” (1 Corinthians 11:7, 1 – 5, 10, 13 – 16, 14:16, 32 – 37, NKJV)

2) Martin Luther never believed in Pre-Tribulation Rapture not even as a possibility

 

[ To quote from Page 40 to 42 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Kathryn Kuhlman’s “Possible” Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit Example

 

  1. i) Kathryn Kuhlman clearly believed and taught Pre-Tribulation Rapture

 

Example quote:

 

“… The Rapture comes, the Great catching up comes on the very threshold of the Great Tribulation. First the rapture, when Jesus comes for His Church, 7 years of Great Tribulation, suffering as this world has never known. Neither will man ever know such suffering again. We are on the very threshold on that now. The world at this very hour even when I’m speaking to you is on the very threshold of that time of great suffering of great tribulation. Following the 7 years of Great Tribulation, then we have Jesus coming back to earth in bodily form.  …” – Kathryn Kuhlman

 

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh15oLDnng8

 

The fuller Video for excerpt above may be found in the ‘official Kathryn Kuhlman supporting type of channel’ in link here too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDhl8dLePsg

 

Regarding “Post-Tribulation Rapture”, I have discussed it in Pages 476 to 534 in the #MysteryoftheKingdomofHeavenBook where the quotes from Protestant reformers such as Blessed Martin Luther (the First Protestant), Blessed John Calvin (Founder of Calvinism), Blessed John Wesley (Founder of Methodism) or even Blessed Charles Spurgeon (the Prince of Preachers) or William Tyndale (Important English Translator of Bible for Protestants) and others taught “Post Tribulation Rapture only” as per the early Church Fathers of First Christianity too CONTRADICTING clearly KATHRYN KUHLMAN’s Words here.

 

Which Doctrine is most likely right?

 

 

  1. ii) Kathryn Kuhlman MAY HAVE COMMITTED THE BLASHPHEMY of THE HOLY SPIRIT when she taught her Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine

 

How? To quote (from 1 minutes 20 seconds onward in this video):

 

“… I believe that THIS IS THE VERY LAST YOUTH GENERATION BEFORE THE GREAT TRIBULATION. I believe that I got to believe it KNOWING the WORD OF PROPHECY as I DO. This is the LAST YOUTH GENERATION BEFORE THE GREAT TRIBULATION. SITTING HERE IN THIS ASSEMBLY IN THIS MONDAY MORNING, face it, face that, FACE GOD, face reality, FACE TRUTH. YOU YOUNG PEOPLE [SITTING HERE] are the LAST YOUTH GENERATION in THIS DISPENSATION. …” – Kathryn Kuhlman

 

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LmRCqhCS9I

 

Comments:

 

  1. Kathryn Kuhlman’s earlier quote in (i) itself proves in ‘her own words’ that the ‘Great Tribulation’ she is referring to is the Final One after the Church is Raptured first in a “Pre-Tribulation Rapture”.

 

  1. In this Video, if she was discussing her opinion and she turns out to be wrong doctrinally, I can see God’s Mercy as every Christian could have some parts of Doctrine Wrong either Knowingly or Unknowingly. However, sadly this is MOST LIKELY NOT the case since SHE QUOTES her “Gift of Prophecy” (equivalent to QUOTING the HOLY SPIRIT telling it as many typical Charismatics do) when she claimed THAT THE YOUTH GENERATION in her TIME WAS THE LAST YOUTH before the FINAL GREAT TRIBULATION as unless God has Mercy, this can be an UNFORGIVABLE BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE MOST BLESSED HOLY SPIRIT of GOD.

 

  1. Her Prophecy here is clearly false as she herself died in February 20, 1976 which means even if ‘this prophecy’ was made in 1976, then even AN INFANT (BABY) in her congregation that day would today (in 2022) be 2022 – 1976 = 46 years old which is NOT a YOUTH ANYMORE. The extended political definition of Youth itself reaches up to 40 years of age only. Usually the age 30 and above is considered a MAN (by Jewish Definition itself as CHRIST HIMSELF started ministry at the AGE OF 30 only) and so the age of 46 is definitely NOT a YOUTH today and the neither PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE NOR the GREAT TRIBULATION has occurred.
  2. She claimed the “Gift of Prophecy” when she told that Prophecy of hers namely ‘… This is the LAST YOUTH GENERATION BEFORE THE GREAT TRIBULATION. SITTING HERE IN THIS ASSEMBLY IN THIS MONDAY MORNING …’ referring to the “Source of her gifts” which puts everything else very “risky” as Using the Name of God in Vain (one of the 10 Commandments) and especially the Name of the Most Blessed Holy Spirit of God in Vain may merit the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which has NO FORGIVENESS as CHRIST HIMSELF has WARNED CLEARLY (e.g. Matthew 12:30 – 32).

 

  1. So Pastors and Christians who quote her likewise could also be “RISKING COMMITTING the BLASPHEMY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT likewise” and though I don’t judge, I warn of the risks and do “not” need their endorsement “nor” the endorsement of their women who quote like this either as we will stick to New Testament “Written” Traditions and “Guard our Tongue to actually honour God”. All the best and may God have Mercy on whom He Wills.

 

  1. Since her Prophecy above did “not” come to pass, we don’t ned to condemn her but we need “not” consider her either as per Verses below (let God Judge her):

 

“… 19And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. 20But THE PROPHET WHO PRESUMES TO SPEAK A WORD IN MY NAME, WHICH I HAVE NOT COMMANDED HIM TO SPEAK, or who speaks in the name of other gods, THAT PROPHET SHALL DIE.’ 21And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— 22WHEN A PROPHET SPEAKS IN THE NAME OF THE LORD, IF THE THING DOES NOT HAPPEN OR COME TO PASS, THAT IS THE THING WHICH THE LORD HAS NOT SPOKEN; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; YOU SHALL NOT BE AFRAID OF HIM. …” (Deuteronomy 18:19 – 22, NKJV)

 

  1. Regarding POST TRIBULATION RAPTURE Doctrine which is even TAUGHT by ALL PROTESTANT REFORMATION FOUNDERS as opposed to “Kathryn Kuhlman’s ‘Pre-Tribulation Rapture’ which didn’t exist until the Puritans (of the 18th Century started it), you can read about it in say Pages 224 to 230 of the #CharityDoctrineBook where our focus here is MARTIN LUTHER the FIRST SPIRIT LED PROTESTANT himself did NOT believe in it NOR CONSIDERED it as ANY POSSIBILITY even (and please note the IRONY that from the BRETHRENS and PURITANS who PROPGATED this PRE-TRIBULATION DOCTRINE and those who support it claim often that THEY WERE SPIRIT LED to SEE THIS PRE-TRIBULATION DOCTRINE , where among them generally even TILL TODAY  these BRETHRENS and PURITANS who believe in PRE-TRIBULATION DOCTRINE do NOT HAVE ANY WOMAN PASTORS and WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE CONDEMNED even Kathryn Kuhlman for this DOCTRINAL ASPECT who is quoting ‘their belief’ and not the other way around so it matters, can you “see” it?):

“… Paul writes these words to comfort Christians who were troubled about what would take place at the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD. Shall all rise together? Shall those LIVING ON THE EARTH at the last day meet Christ before others? These and like thoughts worried them. Here Paul answers them by saying that Christ would take ALL HIS BELIEVERS TO HIMSELF at THE SAME TIME, …” – Blessed Martin Luther, Reformation Founder, First Champion of the Protestant Faith (Commentary on 1 Thessalonians 4)

Source:

https://biblehub.com/sermons/auth/luther/living_and_dead_when_christ_returns.htm

 

Yes, Martin Luther teaches only ‘one gathering of the elect at the same time which occurs during the First Resurrection of the Dead’ and there’s no CHRISTIAN left behind and saved at the end of the 7 year Antichrist Period as the PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE POSITION claims (note that Revelation 20:4 – 6 Reveals that CHRISTIANS SAVED at the END of the 7 YEARS period exists as they NEVER took the MARK of the BEAST and were KILLED):

 

“… 4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the SOULS of those who had been BEHEADED for their WITNESS TO JESUS and for the word of God, who had NOT WORSHIPPED THE BEAST or HIS IMAGE, and had NOT RECEIVED HIS MARK on THEIR FOREHEADS or on their HANDS. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5But the REST OF THE DEAD did not live again until the thousand years were finished.  Blessed and holy is he who has part in the FIRST RESURRECTION. OVER SUCH THE SECOND DEATH has NO POWER, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a THOUSAND YEARS. ….” (Revelation 20:4 – 7, NKJV)

 

So MARTIN LUTHER cannot have believed in PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE at all as he is quoting that favourite 1 Thessalonians 4 Verses earlier (whom Pre-Tribulation believers such as Karthyn Kuhlman  understand as the ‘secret coming’ or first gathering of elect and another gathering of elect at the end of 7 years after the Antichrist Reign) which CONTRADICTS MARTIN LUTHER who only SEES ONE GATHERING of the ELECT during the FIRST RESURRECTION which INCLUDES even THOSE KILLED by the ANTICHRIST (BEAST) even so must happen ONLY AT THE END of the 7 YEARS of this FINAL ANTICHRIST (when you compare these quotes even).

 

Can you “see” it?

NO ”Allegorical” Interpretation cover up by PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE will work either here because the “… SOULS of those who had been BEHEADED  …” who are RESURRECTED only after the 7 year end of the Antichrist refers to CHRISTIANS only (phrase here “… for their WITNESS TO JESUS and for the word of God, …”) and it REFERS to the LITERAL MARK of the BEAST in their FOREHEAD and HANDS which they DID NOT TAKE (meaning it’s NOT allegorical to apply to any believer which can be a second meaning but this literal meaning stays regardless – can you “really” see it “as it is Written”? Phrases for this part is “… who had NOT WORSHIPPED THE BEAST or HIS IMAGE, and had NOT RECEIVED HIS MARK on THEIR FOREHEADS or on their HANDS. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years …”).

 

[ To quote from Page 35 to 36 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Recently, I saw a few people posting about the women charismatic evangelist Kathryn Kuhlman and so I think there could be “danger” in her ways and so I decided to write this.

 

The “MAIN PROBLEM” in “HER THEOLOGY” and “MIRACLE CLAIMS” is that “SHE SAYS THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT told me this and that” and so if she is “wrong” (quoting the Holy Spirit), the RISK of the UNPARDONABLE SIN is there and so CHRISTIANS who CLAIM that SHE SPOKE by the HOLY SPIRIT could also be led to COMMIT the UNFORGIVABLE BLASPHEMY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT under the CONDITION IF SHE WAS WRONG, Verses:

 

“… 31“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 12:31 – 32, NKJV)

 

In contrast, without Quoting the Most Blessed Holy Spirit of God but stating it as our own opinion/oracle is “not” damnable as God Himself showed Mercy by His Unchanging Principle as discussed in post in quoted pages earlier.

 

I am “not” Judging her “nor” the Christians (even pastors who quote her) that they must go to eternal Hell if wrong (but just pointing out that the risk is really great against them as I shall demonstrate a few proofs which they may have not known about her, and hence may God have Mercy on whom He Wills).

 

However, I don’t need to Judge her and her followers because she is the “pioneer” of how a “woman can become a pastor” and so to have big woman support (against say against 1 Timothy 2:12, 1 Corinthians 14:33 – 34), modern pastors often quote her (example link below):

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2019/october/kathryn-kuhlman-female-evangelicals-hidden-predecessor.html

 

Note: Regarding my personal standpoint, I have already explained in the past that I am “neutral” about whether “God Showed them this NEW WAY of WOMAN PASTORS etc.” which are only present in the 20th Century onward but the APPROVED BIBLE WAY of NOT HAVING ANY WOMAN PASTORS and OBEYING OTHER NEW TESTAMENT “WRITTEN” TRADITIONS is what I uphold simply because that WAY CANNOT BE CONDEMNED (by Kathryn Kuhlman or your pastor or whoever) simply because it has been APPROVED IN NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE VERSES (e.g. 1 Corinthians 14:37, 2 Peter 3:2, 1 Timothy 2:12, 1 Corinthians 14:33 – 34). The LACK of WOMAN SUPPORT or their WORDS AGAINST these VERSES doesn’t bother me at all since we are “not” called to ‘exalt miracles nor women’ but THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD TO HONOUR HIM.

 

3) Martin Luther believed in the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as part of the Interpretation of the Five Wise vs Five Foolish Virgins Parable of Christ regarding the Bride and Denial

[ To quote from Page 125 to 126 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Martin Luther, the First Protestant too, except that he defines the “Oil and Lamp” to mean “Faith and Helping Others type of Good Work (Charity Doctrine)” in ‘reverse definition’ (but ‘overall meaning’ is the ‘same’), to quote:

 

“… Therefore, let each one see to it that he has these two together: the OIL, which is TRUE FAITH and trust in Christ; and the LAMPS, the VESSEL, which is the OUTWARD SERVICE TOWARD YOUR NEIGHBOR. The WHOLE CHRISTIAN LIFE CONSISTS in THESE TWO THINGS things: BELIEVE GOD. HELP YOUR NEIGHBOR. The WHOLE GOSPEL TEACHES this. PARENTS should TELL IT TO THEIR CHILDREN at HOME and EVERYWHERE. Children, too, should CONSTANTLY FOSTER THIS WORD AMONG THEMSELVES. I should really say something about the sleep of the virgins and about the setting out of the Bridegroom for the wedding. But the hour is late. Another time. May God be gracious to us! Amen. …”- The First Champion of the Protestant Faith, Blessed Martin Luther’s Sermon which was translated in 2013 by the Rev. Paul A. Rydecki, On Faith and Good Works, Preached in Erfurt at St. Michaeliskirche on the Day of the 11,000 Virgins (October 21st), 1522

Source: http://www.godwithuslc.org/luther-sermon-for-trinity-27/

Note: Regardless if Martin Luther (above) quoted the “oil” and “lamp” as “faith” and “good works” respectively, it doesn’t change the meaning in essence that he is emphasizing clearly that the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE as signified in his phrase above as ‘OUTWARD SERVICE TOWARD YOUR NEIGHBOR’ is part of the “5 Wise Virgins” and he exhorts to “Preach it everywhere”, in his words “… BELIEVE GOD. HELP YOUR NEIGHBOR. The WHOLE GOSPEL TEACHES this. PARENTS should TELL IT TO THEIR CHILDREN at HOME and EVERYWHERE. Children, too, should CONSTANTLY FOSTER THIS WORD AMONG THEMSELVES. …”. So we preach likewise and cannot be condemned for it either as we are following Martin Luther in this.

 

If Martin Luther (the First Protestant) did “not” go to Hell by Preaching this Context as per “First Christianity”, we won’t either by preaching and doing likewise. Also, the fact that Martin Luther agrees to Church Father’s Quotes* (please see at the end for examples) on this proves that this Doctrinal part is most likely correct.

 

[ To quote from Page 1002 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Please remember that “Protestant” in the Picture includes a wide range of denominations who are “not” United with each other even with some “cults” too meaning the “local Church” one attends may be just a ‘fraction’ of it with many other varieties existing.

 

There are surely errors from one Protestant Denomination to the next when Compared because both claim theological points which “contradict” each other on some doctrinal areas eventually.

 

So, let God Decide who is right because as all of them have done some of the Great Commission in some way but as for accuracy, only God Knows where some may be more accurate in a theological part whilst another denomination in another area etc. but for me I follow more of the “Church Fathers and Protestant Foundersonly as described in the  #SafeRouteScripturallyBook for many reasons mentioned therein for both #Doctrine and #PossibilityofDoctrine (because we are “not” arrogant enough to claim that we got all our Doctrines right).

 

We know that the Roman Catholics and Orthodox denominations did a good job in preserving ancient Christian Writings especially those of the “Chiliasm Fathers of the Church” whom I follow most as they are the ‘earliest whose writings survive’ simply because both of these major denominations do “not” believe the same as them in many areas too as I have demonstrated in the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.

 

Simple Logic: If someone wants to “change” an ‘early Christian Writing’ back at that time even, then they would have changed it to be ‘similar to what they believe or add in those things which they believe’ which is clearly absent from all Chiliasm Father’s Endorsed Writing such as they have “no” Prayers to Virgin Mary or Equivalent and also have a heavy focus on the #milleniarism or “chiliasm” #eschatology doctrine too.

 

4) Martin Luther may not have believed in Universalism but he never condemned Universalists as heretics but rather called some of them as “renown” and called them “part of among him group” (indicating acceptance) and he was open to the POSSIBILITY of a non-Elect Salvation AFTER DEATH via faith (‘believing after seeing’ type) though he claims none can prove it.

 

[ To quote from Page 990 to 995 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

  1. Martin Luther did write a mysterious quote regarding whether “faith” can be attained “after death”: here it is as he writes in a letter to “Hans von Rechenberg”:

 

“… “If God were to save anyone without faith, he would be acting contrary to his own words and would give himself the lie; yes, he would deny himself. And that is impossible for, as St. Paul declares, God cannot deny himself [“II Tim. 2:13”]. It is as impossible for God to save without faith as it is impossible for divine truth to lie. That is clear, obvious, and easily understood, no matter how reluctant the old wineskin is to hold this wine–yes, is unable to hold and contain it.” “It would be quite a DIFFERENT QUESTION WHETHER GOD CAN IMPART FAITH to SOME IN THE HOUR OF DEATH OR AFTER DEATH SO THAT THESE PEOPLE COULD BE SAVED THROUGH FAITH. WHO WOULD DOUBT GOD’S ABILITY TO DO THAT? NO ONE, HOWEVER, CAN PROVE THAT HE DOES THIS. For all that we read is that he has already raised people from the dead and thus granted them faith. But whether he gives faith or not, it is impossible for anyone to be saved without faith. Otherwise every sermon, the gospel, and faith would be vain, false, and deceptive, since the entire gospel makes faith necessary.  …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith (Works, 43, ed. and trans. G. Wienke and H. T. Lehmann [Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1968], 53-54; WA 10.ii, 324.25-325.11), letter to “Hans von Rechenberg“:”

 

Protestant Source:

https://www.reformation21.org/mos/1517/tim-and-carl-on-love-wins

 

Comments:

  1. i) The Protestant Source above knows that this letter is Authentic as it is printed by ‘Eternal Hell believers themselves’ in the Famous “Luther Works series” or equivalent.

 

  1. ii) The Protestant Source claims that Luther is indeed speaking of post-mortem salvation but just not saying that it will be done as the ‘fuller explanation by that professor’ is as follows for this crucial part as ‘he admits even that this is what Luther wrote’ in ‘his own words’:

 

“… He asks if God could give somebody faith after death and justify them on that basis. Yes, he replies, he could do so; but there is absolutely no evidence that he does do so …” – Carl Trueman, a professor of church history at Westminster Theological Seminary

 

Source:

https://www.reformation21.org/articles/easy-virtues-and-cruel-mistresses.php

 

iii) So everybody agrees that Martin Luther is speaking of a “post mortem” (or after death) possibility of attaining to ‘faith’. The professor says that Luther is clear that this is “not possible”. However, Luther seems to be saying that “it is POSSIBLE if GOD WILLS it” but so far, “no one (to his knowledge) has proof that GOD HAS DONE SO“. That quote part:

 

“… “It would be quite a DIFFERENT QUESTION WHETHER GOD CAN IMPART FAITH to SOME IN THE HOUR OF DEATH OR AFTER DEATH SO THAT THESE PEOPLE COULD BE SAVED THROUGH FAITH. WHO WOULD DOUBT GOD’S ABILITY TO DO THAT? NO ONE, HOWEVER, CAN PROVE THAT HE DOES THIS.  …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith

 

Can you see it?

 

  1. iv) To be honest with the writing (whether it’s a correct claim or not), Luther seems to be open to the “possibility” of “faith being attained after death for some (not all)” but He is “notsure whether God has done this or not due to “no” proof (to convince him or because no one can see the ‘spirit world’ to prove it or disprove it) and thus Luther leaves the question like that to GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY to DECIDE.

 

  1. v) This is exactly the Doctrinal Position I have taken likewise where I don’t affirm Universalism nor post-mortem Salvation as anything more than a “possibility” only these days as Luther did likewise leaving the Decision to God Alone.

 

  1. Here is something deeper which the Professor is “not” quoting in his blog link above but is quoted by other scholars as per image too ‘at the start of it’ from this ‘same letter by Martin Luther’ to “Hans von Rechenberg”:

 

This Context:

“… For the opinion that GOD COULD NOT HAVE CREATED MAN to be REJECTED and CAST AWAY into ETERNAL TORMENT IS HELD AMONG US ALSO, as it was at all times by some of the most renowned people, such as Origen and his kind.  …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith, (letter to “Hans von Rechenberg“)

Source (Page 14):

https://www.amazon.com/Larger-Hope-Universal-Reformation-Nineteenth/dp/1498200400

 

Comments:

 

Luther’s argument are “not” to support Universalism as true as he doesn’t speak of it in that way but he points that even so called “CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISTS are NOT HERETICS personally by his standards” as his phrase here toward them is “… IS HELD AMONG US ALSO,  ….” where he considers these ‘Christian Universalists’ as part of being a ‘Saved Protestant and not heretics if they hope so’.

 

The “difference” is I have “repented” of the “Universalism” part only treating it as a “possibility” only as “Martin Luther’s Quote allows this if we use it for God’s Sovereignty to Decide as He is able but adding nothing more as doctrine on this’. Following Martin Luther (the First Champion of the Protestant Faith) in this cannot condemn you to hell as all protestants must agree first that he is saved regardless if his statement is wrong or if he viewed it as a possibility for if he was convinced 100% that it cannot happen, then he wouldn’t have argued likewise that “God is able” respecting God’s Decision Alone on this.

 

“… knowing this first, that NO PROPHECY of SCRIPTURE is of ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION, …” (2 Peter 1:20, NKJV)

 

To obey this Verse above we should ask: Who is the “First Christian” we can quote to believe the same as us from FIRST CHRISTIANITY?

 

Because this Verse Says that “Prophecy” of Scripture will be passed on NOT by PRIVATE INTERPRETATION meaning there must be evidence of it held by OTHER CHRISTIANS especially from the EARLIEST TIMES (now, if someone claims that ‘the ROMAN CATHOLICS/ORTHODOX destroyed’ those evidences and only preserved the ‘latter fake writings’, then can the SAME CALVINISTS or MODERN PROTESTANTS then CLAIM GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY in ANY WAY since THEIR ESCHASTHALOGY INTERPRETATION was NOT PRESERVED?

 

Quoting it’s PRESERVED in BIBLE VERSES QUOTED is NOT the CONTEXT for this VERSE as it SAYS the “INTERPRETATION” of it referring to HOW PEOPLE INTERPRET the BIBLE VERSE NOT the VERSES itself also MUST be PRESERVED at least part of it in some way, right?

 

 

In contrast to theirs non-existing interpretation among the earliest Church Fathers, OUR CHILIASM DOCTRINE TIMELINE and INTERPRETATIONS are PRESERVED by these SAME ROMAN CATHOLICS/ORTHODOX even AFTER they DENIED it, CAN YOU SEE it? That Sounds closer to the SOVEREIGNTY of GOD to preserve something which they themselves DID NOT believe “LATER” only, can you really “see” it?

 

The additional “POSSIBILITIES” and “SPECULATIONS” I add ASSUMING the CHILIASM TIMELINE is TRUE  and adding on to it POSSIBLE INTERPRETATIONS, (can you “see” it?) and NOT Teaching it beyond a POSSIBILITY only regardless since sometimes it’s hard to interpret these  writings accurately FURTHER and so we are neutral about it:

 

[ To quote from Page 1369 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

The Reason I write all these POSSIBILITIES is NOT to CONFUSE you BUT TO PUT A WORD of CAUTION LEST WE ACCIDENTALLY TEACH Wrongly (which can APPLY TO ME TOO) and that’s why I ONLY PRESENT it as POSSIBILITIES and since “no” PROPHECY of SCRIPTURE is of ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION (I also quote the First Christianity Greats of Faith’s quotes which could point or support such POSIBILITIES likewise) especially the quotes of the CHILIASM Timeline as demonstrated a little in Pages 1347 to 1350 for example by St. Justin Martyr and St. Methodius of Olympus and  also St. Irenaeous of Lyons in Pages 593 to 604 all from this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.

 

“… knowing this first, that NO PROPHECY of SCRIPTURE is of ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION, …” (2 Peter 1:20, NKJV)

 

I repeat: I am NOT saying that my interpretation is correct but sharing the various POSSSIBILITIES and also the popular position could be true and let each decide for themselves as my duty is to present these only and may God have Mercy on our theological errors.

 

 

 

 

 

5) Martin Luther did not believe in a 66 Books  Bible either but was open to the Apocrypha either partly or because he was not sure 100% but yet he called them as “good” and it was included in the First 1611 KJV Bible

 

Why I am open to DEUTEROCANONICAL Books too?

 

Fast Fact: There was “no” 66 Books Bible until the “Protestant Reformation“. Please read this “again”. So, GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY DECIDED CHRISTIANS to have MORE THAN 66 BOOKS for the FIRST 1500 YEARS of CHRISTIANITY ( or at least for 1000 years from 500 AD to 1000 AD where there was NO 66 BIBLE BOOKS based CHRISTIANITY at all) where some Protestants claim HE DECIDED to change that only from 1600 AD onward? Maybe GOD is TELLING SOMETHING ELSE. I have discussed this particular aspect in from Page 1672 to 1692 or Pages 1788 to 1792 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook .

 

Please also note that the ORIGINAL FIRST KING JAMES VERSION (in GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY) included all these APOCRYPHA especially the BOOK of WISDOM too. Here’s an example Apocrypha’s TOBIT Verse [ To quote from Page 108 or 1688 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]:

 

“…  6 Then he said to them SECRETLY: Bless ye the God of heaven, give glory to him in the sight of all that live, because he hath shewn his mercy to you. 7 For it is good to hide the secret of a king: but honourable to reveal and confess the works of God. 8 PRAYER IS GOOD WITH FASTING AND ALMS MORE THAN to lay up treasures of gold: 9 For ALMS DELIVERETH from DEATH, and the same is that which PURGETH AWAY SINS, and maketh to FIND MERCY AND LIFE EVERLASTING. … 15 For I am the angel RAPHAEL, one of the seven who stand before the Lord. …” (Bible Scripture.Net Translation, Tobit 12:6 – 9, 15)

Source: https://biblescripture.net/Tobias.html

 

“… 7 GIVE GENEROUSLY to anyone who faithfully obeys God. If you are stingy in giving to the poor, God will be stingy in giving to you. 8 Give according to what you have. THE MORE YOU HAVE, THE MORE YOU SHOULD GIVE. Even if you have only a little, be sure to give something. 9 This is as good as money saved. You will have your reward in a time of trouble. 10-11 TAKING CARE OF THE POOR is the kind of offering that PLEASES GOD IN HEAVEN. DO THIS, and YOU WILL BE KEPT SAFE FROM THE DARK WORLD OF THE DEAD. …” (Good News Translation, Tobit 4:7 – 11)

Source:  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Tobit+4&version=GNT

So WHY did GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY allow say TOBIT in the FIRST KING JAMES VERSION Bible of 1611? If these Books were 100% FALSE, then why did GOD NOT make those ACTUAL SPIRIT LED FIRST TRANSLATORS of the BIBLE from the PROTESTANT CAMP to REMOVE it but rather included it as APOCRYPHA together with the rest of 66 BOOKS even with MARTIN LUTHER the FIRST PROTESTANT calling these APOCRYPHA as GOOD?

 

 

It looks more like the FIRST KJV BIBLE Translators were “NOT” 100% sure whether to completely remove these Books meaning these BOOKS could be TRUE or could be PARTIALLY TRUE, right?

 

The opinion of later protestants doesn’t matter as much because it contradicts their claim that GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY must have caused the start to be right means they do have a lot of CHANGES both in NUMBER of BOOKS to THEOLOGY even WITHIN PROTESTANISM itself, can you see it?

 

Also by GOD’S SOVEREINTY argument, WHY DIDN’T the FIRSTSpeaking in TonguesCHRISTIANS be ANY of the PROTESTANT FOUNDERS from MARTIN LUTHER to JOHN CALVIN to JOHN WESLEY to even CHARLES SPURGEON from the 16th Century to 19th Century  (they were UNWORTHY or IMMATURED SPIRITUALLY compared to the Modern ones, is it?) but only a VERY LATE EVEN in the 20th Century where the FIRST PERSONS were Ms. Agnes and Mr. Charles Parham IF IT WAS SO IMPORTANT FOR SALVATION in ANY WAY as  I have discussed this particular aspect in NEUTRALITY from Page 1267 to 1273 or Pages 794 to 819  of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6) Martin Luther never spoke in tongues nor even knew of such gifts to be existent as he was a cessationist except for continuation of the gifts of prophecy, healing and deliverance

 

Martin Luther never spoke in tongues all his life because he believed in this

 

“… In the early church the Holy Spirit was sent forth in visible form. He descended upon Christ in the form of a dove (Matt. 3:16), and in the likeness of fire upon the apostles and other believers (Acts 2:3). This visible outpouring of the Holy Spirit was necessary to the establishment of the early church, as were also the miracles that accompanied the gift of the Holy Ghost. Paul explained the purpose of these miraculous gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 14:22, “Tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not.” Once the church had been established and properly advertised by these miracles, the visible appearance of the Holy Ghost ceased.[6] …” – Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith, ( Commentary on St. Paul’s Epistle to the Galatians, 4.6.)

Source (via Philip Schaff that we quote so often too):

https://www.ccel.org/ccel/luther/galatians.vii.html

or this:

http://www.thewaywithwords.net/2017/09/martin-luther-16th-century-cessationist.html

or this https://www.christianity.com/bible/commentary/luth/galatians/4

 

Please be careful some Protestants where they SIMPLY CLAIM things which MARTIN LUTHER NEVER CLAIMED such as SPEAKING in TONGUES CONTINUED TILL TODAY where MARTIN LUTHER ONLY experienced PROPHECY, HEALING and DELIVERANCE only, example quote (as you can see the example of the ‘other side of the coin as follows’):

 

“… 1. Prophecy. Luther, in 1522, wrote to a friend named Lincke, and appears to have foreseen a war, either by a dream or vision. He said, “I seem to myself to see Germany swimming with blood…I certainly am of the opinion that I speak these things in the Spirit” (cp. of a strong persuasion, 1 Cor. 7:40). Three years later, this was fulfilled by the German Peasants’ War (182-183). On another occasion, Luther writes to a friend that one of his enemies, named Emser, had sinned a sin to the death, and that he would pray against him; soon after this, Emser died with convulsions, after going to a “splendid entertainment” with some rich and important person (186). Luther prophesied that a Franciscan monk movement would happen in many areas where the Reformation took place; and that people would go back to Catholicism and abandon the Gospel (189). Luther said, “It will be idolatry and the work of the devil.” He prophesied several times that this would happen in Germany after he would die; he also seems to have prophesied about the violence that Lutheran children would go through after they were fully grown. This is a possible prophecy of the Thirty Years’ War (1618-1648) (191).

 

  1. Healing. Once when Luther came down with a deadly illness, a group of people prayed for his healing, after all medical means proved useless. Luther said, “They prayed so hard for me to God, that the tears of many people proved successful on my behalf…God has already wrought a miracle on me this night, and does so still, through the intercession of good people” (193). Evidently Luther believed in practicing James 5:14-16. He appears to have suffered from migraine headaches; and on one occasion he thought he would die, because the pain in his head was so great. All medical means were used again, to no use. But his friend Pomeranus continued in “persevering intercession” for Luther’s healing, and he got better (195). On two occasions, Luther’s friend Friedrich Myconius (Mecum) was on his deathbed. On each occasion, he wrote a farewell letter to Luther, expecting to die. Luther wrote him back in friendly protest, and prophesied that he must die first, and then Mecum. Luther prayed for his recovery; and both times he was healed and continued to live, that is, of course, until one month after Luther died (196-199).

 

Melanchthon was probably Luther’s best friend. He was on his deathbed, and his eyes were gazing off into space, and he could hardly breathe. When Luther saw him like this, he got angry at the devil, and began to pray fervently to God for his healing, looking out the window. Then, he grabbed his hand and said, “‘Be of good courage Philip, thou shalt not die. Though God wanteth not reason to slay thee, yet He willeth not the death of a sinner, but that he may be converted and live. He takes pleasure in life, and not in death. Inasmuch as God has called and taken back to His favour the greatest sinners that ever lived on earth, namely, Adam and Eve, much less, Philip, will He cast off thee, or suffer thee to perish in thy sin and sorrow. Wherefore give not place to the spirit of grief, nor become the slayer of thyself; but trust in the Lord, who is able to kill, and to make alive.’ While he thus utters these things, Philip begins as it were to revive and to breathe, and, gradually recovering his strength, is at last restored to health.” Melanchthon later wrote, “I should have been a dead man, had I not been recalled from death itself by the coming of Luther.” Melanchthon had apparently fallen into some grievous sin, for which Luther thought he had become so sick, and later wrote, “I fetched back Philip out of Hell” (202).

 

  1. Deliverance. When praying, Luther saw an open vision of a demon (177). No visual description is given, but if Schongauer’s German woodcut of “The Temptation of St. Anthony” is in any way accurate, we may assume that he saw something like a hideous monster with warped, beastly features; and was most likely a spirit of fear (2 Tim. 1:7). It is also clear from Roland Bainton’s Here I Stand, that demons harassed Luther in Wartbug Castle. Seckendorf’s Historia Lutheranismi (1688)—written by a friend of Luther’s great-grandson (189)—gives two accounts of demon-possessed young women who Luther helped with prayer in the name of Jesus …”Source: https://wesleygospel.com/2016/04/30/debunking-cessationism-a-cesspool-of-deformed-theology/

 

Regarding SPEAKING in TONGUES, PERSONALLY I think it’s POSSIBLE only BUT LET GOD JUDGE which is for REAL and which is NOT but it has NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION for if so, GOD’s SOVEREIGNTY would have made MARTIN LUTHER to EXPERIENCE it which HE DID NOT and at most MARTIN LUTHER has only CONFIRMED the GIFTS of PROPHECY, HEALING and DELIVERANCE to CONTINUE till today WHICH I CERTAINLY BELIEVE and have EXPERIENCED LIKEWISE too BY GOD’S GRACE.

If SPEAKING in TONGUES was EVIDENCE of SALVATION (as some of them err, not all), then ENTIRE CHRISTIANITY LOST this GIFT for 1900 years and how does that PROVE GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY that THEY ARE THE CHOSEN FEW based on this?

 

At least the DOCTRINAL POSSIBILITIES we PROVE are FOUND IN MANY FIRST CHRISTIANITY WRITINGS as SHOWN (that’s the DIFFERENCE) with earliest CHURCH FATHERS or WRITINGS such as the SHEPHERD of HERMAS too and so THEY COULD BE MORE WORTHY than even ANY PROTESTANT FOUNDER from MARTIN LUTHER to JOHN CALVIN to JOHN WESLEY to even CHARLES SPURGEON and us too definitely and that’s WHY WE CONSIDER their WRITINGS AS POSSIBILITIES likewise.

 

The WORTHINESS can be MEASURED clearly in GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY terms in the CONTEXT of WHICH CAME FIRST and GOD PRESERVED it even if the ”later majority” can be AGAINST it. Can you REALLY SEE it? I think this is MORE LIKELY the MEASUREMENT of GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY.

 

Since no one can say for sure and their position itself contradicts their ‘late’ emergence of their ways etc. so LET GOD DECIDE ONE DAY.

 

 

 

 

 

[ To quote from Page 1449 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Here’s a possible explanation as to “how” regarding the #CharityDoctrine:

 

In light of Christ’s Quotes we understand that the “Charity Doctrine” removes the “Judgment of Sins“*  but it cannot give new life nor give Resurrection.

 

Only the Blood of Christ Can Remove Sin itself and bring us to the Resurrection Life beginning within us on earth itself.  So only Christ’s Atonement and Work Gives us Life.

 

The Almsgiving stops the ‘Judgment of Sins’, nothing more as that’s the Context meant in Tobit or elsewhere in Verses quoted here (even in Christ’s Parable of the Rich Man and Beggar Lazarus too which Speaks of this absence of Charity Doctrine leads straight to Hell in Luke 16:19 – 31) by which even Lazarus can be ‘spared of that Judgment’ too.

 

*Here are some Bible Verses regarding “Almsgiving and/or #CharityDoctrineLifestyle” Quoted in both the “Old Testament” (by Blessed Prophet Daniel himself to whom was Revealed the ‘Wise will Shine Like Heavens Verse) and also in the “New Testament” (to Blessed Apostle St. Paul the Original ‘Faith Alone by Grace’ Preacher) in Verses quoted next in the CONTEXT of CHARITY DOCTRINE for the REMOVAL OF JUDGMENT OF SINS:

 

  1. i) Old Testament

 

“… Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and BREAK OFF THY SINS BY RIGHTEOUSNESS, and THINE INIQUITIES BY SHEWING MERCY TO THE POOR; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity. …” – Blessed and Holy Prophet Daniel (Daniel 4:27, KJV based on the Masoretic Text)

Source: https://biblehub.com/daniel/4-27.htm

 

 

 

 

 

Compare:

 

” … 27Therefore, O king, let my counsel please thee, and ATONE FOR THY SINS BY ALMS, and THINE INIQUITIES BY COMPASSION ON THE POOR: it may be God will be long-suffering to thy trespasses.” … – Blessed and Holy Prophet Daniel (Daniel 4:27, Brenton Septuagint Translation, based on the Septuagint or LXX)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/daniel/4.htm

 

A key difference is that both the Masoretic and LXX for this Verse has the “other” equivalent phrase “… and THINE INIQUITIES BY SHEWING MERCY TO THE POOR; …” = “… and THINE INIQUITIES BY COMPASSION ON THE POOR …” which proves the “Charity Doctrine” for the removal of  “Judgment of Sins” regardless.

 

  1. ii) New Testament

 

“… 16The LORD GRANT MERCY to the HOUSEHOLD OF ONESIPHORUS, FOR HE OFTEN REFRESHED ME, and was not ashamed of my chain; 17but when he arrived in Rome, he sought me out very zealously and found me. 18The LORD GRANT TO HIM THAT HE MAY FIND MERCY FROM THE LORD IN THAT DAY—and YOU KNOW VERY WELL HOW MANY WAYS HE MINISTERED [d]TO ME AT EPHESUS. …” (2 Timothy 1:12 – 18, NKJV)

 

  1. Please notice that “God’s Mercy” on “that Day (Judgment Day)” is only Quoted in Scripture to refer to “Eternal Life” Context.

 

  1. This Verse regarding ONESIPHORUS cannot be in Context of Reward because “no” extra Reward can be given based on Mercy as “Rewards are based on Merit (deserved)” while in comparison “Mercy” is given based on God’s Decision alone to the “undeserved”.

 

  1. So the “Mercy” in “That Day” spoken in Verses here toward ONESIPHORUS or even the HOUSEHOLD OF ONESIPHORUS as a whole most likely points to “Mercy unto Eternal Life” based on the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle lived as I have discussed in Pages 1182 to 1193 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook here.

 

Let’s see a BOOK of WISDOM or also known as WISDOM of SOLOMON example next (please see quoted pages earlier for “details”) which was even in St. Melito of Sardis’ First Old Testament Canon for Christians  included this BOOK which has POSSIBLE UNIVERSALISM Verses like this as He is the ‘Saviour of All’ Context including ‘His Enemies’ is Echoed in “POPSSIBLE Bible Scripture” below [yes ‘Wisdom of Solomon Book’ is Scripture in All of Christianity except to some protestants from 1500s onward) and SO IT IS POSSIBLE, right?:

 

“… For he that turned himself toward it was not saved by the thing that he saw, but by Thee, that art the SAVIOUR OF ALL. And in this thou madest Thine enemies confess, that it is thou who deliverest from all evil: …12 For it was neither herb, nor mollifying plaister, that restored them to health: but THY WORD, O LORD, which HEALETH ALL THINGS.  13 For THOU hast POWER of LIFE and DEATH: THOU leadest to the GATES of HELL, and BRINGEST UP AGAIN.  …” (Wisdom of Solomon 16:7 – 8, 11 – 12,  KJV Compare with ‘Saviour of All Men especially believers in 1 Timothy 4:10)

 

Source:  https://m.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Wisdom-of-Solomon-Chapter-16/

 

or here too, same no matter which source is quoted:  http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/text/wisdom.html

 

[ To quote from Page 1676 to 1677 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

2 ESDRAS was in the “Original First KING James 1611 Bible” too and Martin Luther himself said that these Apocrypha Books (including this “2 ESDRAS” as good). Example Quote:

 

‘… Keep this in mind when reading the following apocryphal books. MARTIN LUTHER SAID,

 

Apocrypha–that is, books which are NOT REGARDED AS EQUAL TO THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, AND YET ARE PROFITABLE AND GOOD TO READ.” (King James Version Defended page 98.)

Books of the Apocrypha

1 Esdras

2 Esdras

Tobit

Judith

Additions to Esther

Wisdom of Solomon

Ecclesiasticus

Baruch

Letter of Jeremiah

Prayer of Azariah

Susanna

Bel and the Dragon

Prayer of Manasseh

1 Maccabees

2 Maccabees …’

 

Source:

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Apocrypha-Books/

 

Could Martin Luther had way more serious possible False Doctrines?

 

Martin Luther believed in Soul Sleep and didn’t know much about the Resurrection and spoke rashly against the Book of Revelation (only “permitting” others to include it but strongly opposed it to the end) and also spoke against the Book of James but yet is “Saved” too. Not to mention his false teachings on hating Jews type which caused people to kill Jews after reading his writings. I am “not” condemning him but showing that his errors of Doctrine caused very serious consequences than others. Maybe God’s Mercy is much Greater than we think.

 

This FACT above DOES NOT undermine our position at all because we ONLY QUOTE MARTIN LUTHER the FIRST PROTESTANT for the PARTS which his QUOTE AGREES with FIRST CHRISTIANITY GIANTS of FAITH as I have Quoted throughout  this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.

 

 

The Earliest Church Father’s Writings are important for this reason also

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

Doctors of the Church before 700 AD their NON Elect Salvation Quotes only

 

Firstly, BILLIONS of CHRISTIANS for the last 2000 years but only 37 DOCTORS of the CHURCH in total. Now, out of that only about 18 lived within the first 700 years of CHRISTIANITY. Now 14 of these DOCTORS of the CHURCH for the FIRST 700 years of CHRISTIANITY seem to have some type of POSSIBLE NON ELECT SALVATION Quote (except that the term is not coined). Let’s Begin.

Logic regarding the SOVEREIGNTY of GOD and DOCTRINAL ASPECT.

 

“… knowing this first, that NO PROPHECY of SCRIPTURE is of ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION, …” (2 Peter 1:20, NKJV)

 

To obey this Verse above we should ask: Who is the “First Christian” we can quote to believe the same as us from FIRST CHRISTIANITY?

 

Because this Verse Says that “Prophecy” of Scripture will be passed on NOT by PRIVATE INTERPRETATION meaning there must be evidence of it held by OTHER CHRISTIANS especially from the EARLIEST TIMES (now, if someone claims that ‘the ROMAN CATHOLICS/ORTHODOX destroyed’ those evidences and only preserved the ‘latter fake writings’, then can the SAME CALVINISTS or MODERN PROTESTANTS then CLAIM GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY in ANY WAY since THEIR ESCHASTHALOGY INTERPRETATION was NOT PRESERVED?

 

Quoting it’s PRESERVED in BIBLE VERSES QUOTED is NOT the CONTEXT for this VERSE as it SAYS the “INTERPRETATION” of it referring to HOW PEOPLE INTERPRET the BIBLE VERSE NOT the VERSES itself also MUST be PRESERVED at least part of it in some way, right?

 

 

In contrast to theirs non-existing interpretation among the earliest Church Fathers, OUR CHILIASM DOCTRINE TIMELINE and INTERPRETATIONS are PRESERVED by these SAME ROMAN CATHOLICS/ORTHODOX even AFTER they DENIED it, CAN YOU SEE it? That Sounds closer to the SOVEREIGNTY of GOD to preserve something which they themselves DID NOT believe “LATER” only, can you really “see” it?

 

The additional “POSSIBILITIES” and “SPECULATIONS” I add ASSUMING the CHILIASM TIMELINE is TRUE  and adding on to it POSSIBLE INTERPRETATIONS, (can you “see” it?) and NOT Teaching it beyond a POSSIBILITY only regardless since sometimes it’s hard to interpret these  writings accurately FURTHER and so we are neutral about it.

 

Please note that where the CHURCH FATHER’S of the DOCTOR of the CHURCH TYPE QUOTES (after the Church was well established and connected) here DIFFER I tend to THINK that the EARLIEST ONES may MOST LIKELY be RIGHT in this list that MEANS ONLY Blessed. St. Irenaeous of Lyons and then followed by Blessed St. Ambrose of Milan as “noearlier Church Fathers before this are ‘made into a Doctor of the Church’ (but St. Irenaeous of Lyons is very close in resemblance to them such as St. Melito, St. Justin Martyr, St. Papias, St. Polycarp etc.).

I mean for PROTESTANTS please take note that there was NO PROTESTANT CHRISTIANITY between 500 AD to 1500 AD (1000 years!) and so if GOD allowed their names to be on the DOCTOR of the CHURCH list (be it in RETROSPECT), then at least the EARLIEST ones quoted here who have NO PRAYERS to VIRGIN MARY NOR the SAINTS or things only the later ones did COULD BE RESEMBLE FIRST CHRISTIANITY, right?  Also, the fact that there was NO PROTESTANT CHRISTIANITY between 500 AD to 1500 AD (1000 years!) can mean that GOD SAVES across CHRISTIANITY by HIS MERCY and by RELATIVE MEASURE of what we know and how much WE DO HIS COMMANDS. The rest are BONUS for REWARDS.

0) Who are the “Doctors of the Church”?

 

“… Doctor of the Church (Latin: doctor “teacher”), also referred to as Doctor of the Universal Church (Latin: Doctor Ecclesiae Universalis), is a title given by the Catholic Church to saints recognized as having made a significant contribution to theology or doctrine through their research, study, or writing.[1] …In the Western church four outstandingFathers of the Church” attained this honour in the early Middle Ages: Gregory the Great, Ambrose [of Milan], Augustine of Hippo, and Jerome. The “four Doctors” became a commonplace notion among scholastic theologians, … In the Latin Church, the four Latin Doctors “had already long been recognized” in the liturgy when the four Great Doctors of the Eastern Church, John Chrysostom, Basil the Great, Gregory of Nazianzus, and Athanasius of Alexandria were recognized in 1568 by Pope Pius V. … More Doctors (twelve) lived in the 4th century than any other; eminent Christian writers of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd centuries are usually referred to as the Ante-Nicene Fathers. The shortest period between death and nomination was that of Alphonsus Liguori, who died in 1787 and was named a Doctor in 1871 – a period of 84 years; the longest was that of Irenaeus, which took over eighteen centuries. … As of 2022, the Catholic Church has named 37 Doctors of the Church.…”  Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_the_Church

 

As we will see soon, many of these “so FEW DOCTORS of the CHURCH” are quoted in this #SAFEROUTESCRIPTURALLYBOOK and among the four GREAT ones, – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church (in order of time they existed) has the most CLEAR CUT SALVATION FROM the FINAL GEHENNA/LAKE of FIRE quotes as we have seen (in earlier pages) PROVING that FIRST CHRISTIANITY had THIS TYPE OF FAITH. To be Safe BOTH WAYS, we take it as a POSSIBILITY and GUARD our TONGUES.

I am NOT going to “re-discuss” the points stated for each quote next (which you can search within the book using “Control F” and then read the comments etc. done earlier already) but rather ONLY LIST OUT SIGNIFICANT NON-ELECT SALVATION Quotes (EXCEPT that THE TERM IS NOT COINED) as I do NOT think that THOSE SAVED AFTER SPIRIT WORLD JUDGMENT or LAKE of FIRE JUDGMEMT will be part of the CHURCH (which is ELECT SALVATION, “different”).

Another REASON I quote all these is so that SOME PROTESTANTS think that I am just “quoting another church father our of many fathers” and THEY DON’T REALIZE that I AM QUOTING ONLY THE BEST and MOST INFLUENTIAL in THEIR TIMES (and ESPECIALLY the EARLIEST ONES here CAN’T ALL be HERETICS, right?)

 

1) Why should we consider them?

These writings of the “Doctors of the Church” were read throughout FIRST CHRISTIANITY.

“… Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind LET EACH ESTEEM OTHERS BETTER THAN HIMSELF. …” (Philippians 2:3, NKJV)

 

[ To quote from Page 93 from the #MysteryoftheKingdomofHeavenBook ]

 

The first Lutherans in general had more respect for the “Church Fathers” (even if the Church Fathers could be doctrinally wrong from their view point) and must certainly view them as “saved” despite “differences in doctrine”, to quote regarding the ‘Lutheran Book of Concord‘:

 

“… The Lutheran Church did not start in the 1500s, but is the continuation of the one catholic (universal) Church, including everyone who taught and believed the one catholic faith. In The Book of Concord, the Early Church fathers are referenced and quoted in every confessional document (except the Small Catechism). Here are all the ones mentioned: Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, and Tertullian from the second century. Origen, Cyprian, Anthony of Egypt, Athanasius, Basil of Caesarea, Gregory of Nazianzus, Gregory of Nyssa, John Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexandria, Hilary of Poitiers, Jerome, Ambrose, Augustine, and Leo I covered the third, fourth, and fifth centuries .Gregory I, Bede, and John of Damascus from the sixth, seventh, and eighth centuries. These men taught and wrote throughout the Roman Empire: from Judea to England; from northern Africa to Italy and Asia Minor. They are the leading teachers of the whole Church throughout the first eight centuries of Christian history, and the Lutherans claim them as their fathers in the faith. … Quoting the Early Church fathers does not imply that Christian teaching is founded on the authority of men (Catalog of Testimonies, Conclusion). Lutherans hold the Scriptures to be “the only true standard or norm by which all teachers and doctrines are to be judged” (Formula, Solid Declaration, Summary, 3). But those teachers and doctrines that are judged true should also be appreciated and used. The Christian faith did not originate with us. The Christian faith is handed on from one generation of saints to the next, as each generation holds to Scripture. There is so much we can learn from the faithful teachers of the ancient Church, for we are all part of the same catholic Church. They should not be strangers to us. If we are truly Lutheran, then they are truly our fathers. …”

 

Source:

https://lutheranreformation.org/history/lutherans-early-church-fathers/

 

Note: If you see carefully, many of the “Church Fathers” here are the ‘same ones’ I quote frequently in many of my writings. The argument of ‘who could be right is open’ but condemning each other due to these doctrinal differences may be a “Prideful” attitude rather than an edifying one (because one could be wrong on other doctrinal points too). For me, if a ‘possibility of doctrine’ is taught which is “not” found in any of these “listed Church Fathers” here, then it’s most likely a “Christian cult”.

 

2) Who are they? (those in the first 700 years of Christianity only)

 

Why the limitation of the “first 700 years only”?

(because later Christianity has changed following mostly St. Augustine only from this list – can you “see” it? I mean. By quoting later ones, it only proves St. Augustine’s influence and the DIFFERENCE in SOME PARTS from EACH DOCTOR of the CHURCH here PROVES that CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE on THOSE PARTS have NOT been ALL the SAME hence can be CONSIDERED AS DOCTRINAL POSSIBILITIES),

 

Example List:

 

“… Saint Ambrose (c. 340-397), bishop of Milan, Italy, a major opponent of Arianism, wrote and preached extensively [named a Doctor of the church, 1298].

Saint Augustine of Hippo (c. 354-430), North African bishop, author of Confessions, City of God, and numerous treatises, countered heretical movements, one of the most influential theologians of the Western church, called “Doctor of Grace” [1298].

Saint Jerome(c. 343-420), translated Old Testament from Hebrew into Latin and revised Latin translation of New Testament to produce Vulgate version of Bible, called “Father of Biblical Science” [1298].

Saint Gregory the Great (c. 540-604), pope, strengthened papacy and worked for clerical and monastic reform [1298].

Saint Athanasius (c. 297-373), bishop of Alexandria, dominant opponent of Arians, called “Father of Orthodoxy” [1298]

Saint John Chrysostom (“Golden-Mouthed”) (c. 347-407), archbishop of Constantinople, homilist, writer of scripture commentaries and letters, patron of preachers [1568].

Saint Basil the Great (c. 329-379), bishop of Caesarea in Asia Minor, refuted Arian errors, wrote treatises, homilies, and monastic rules, called “Father of Monasticism of the East” [1568].

Saint Gregory of Nazianzus (c. 330-390), bishop of Constantinople, opponent of Arianism, wrote major theological treatises as well as letters and poetry, called the “Christian Demosthenes” and, in the East, “The Theologian” [1568].

Saint Isidore of Seville (c. 560-636), Spanish bishop, encylopedist, and preeminent scholar of his day [1722].

Saint Peter Chrysologus (c. 400-450), archbishop of Ravenna, Italy, homilist and writer, counteracted Monophysite heresy [1729].

Saint Leo I, the Great (c. 400-461), pope, wrote christological and other works against the heresies of his day [1754].

Saint Hilary of Poitiers (c. 315-368), one of first Latin doctrinal writers, opposed Arianism [1851].

Saint Cyril of Alexandria (c. 376-444), bishop, authored doctrinal treatises against Nestorian heresy [1882].

Saint Cyril of Jerusalem (c. 315-386), bishop, catechist, vigorous opponent of Arianism [1882].

Saint John Damascene (c. 675-749), Syrian monk, doctrinal writer, called “Golden Speaker” [1890].

Saint Bede the Venerable (c. 673-735), English Benedictine, called “Father of English History” [1899].

Saint Ephrem the Syrian (c. 306-373), counteracted Gnosticism and Arianism with his poems, hymns, and other writings [1920].

Source:

https://uscatholic.org/articles/200807/chronological-list-of-the-doctors-of-the-church/

The Last Doctor of the Church so far, NOT in list above (since it was only done in 2022) is:

 

“…  Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD) a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation

37. Irenaeus of Lyon*[18] Doctor unitatis (Doctor of Unity)[19] 130 202 2022 Bishop, theologian, Martyr

…”
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_the_Church

 

3) POSSIBLE NON ELECT SALVATION Quotes from ONLY the DOCTORS of the CHURCH or some interesting quotes by them from among these FIRST 700 YEARS CHRISTIANITY only

 

Too much to list here so please find it from Pages 1836 to 1885 in the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook [few quotes there are “new” which I have never quoted before in any of my previous books either]

 

 

 

 

 

Mystery of the Few who Enter Heaven – What did CHRIST Warn here?

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/pfbid03423pm1NG6QaQiQusfCGk28FjujsMwUzuLWvxg14qgYLhEhnNafJgq1zrDHzU21dxl

 

“… Because narrow is the gate and DIFFICULT is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. …” (Matthew 7:14, NKJV)

 

1) Context is about ENTERING HEAVEN

 

“… 14Because narrow is the gate and DIFFICULT is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. … 21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER in heaven. 22MANY will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we NOT PROPHESIED in Your name, CAST OUT DEMONS in Your name, and DONE MANY WONDERS in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS!’ … 24“Therefore WHOEVER HEARS THESE SAYINGS OF MINE, and DOES THEM, I will liken him to a WISE MAN who BUILT HIS HOUSE ON THE ROCK: …” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:14, 21 – 23, 24, NKJV)

 

Comments:

 

  1. Matthew 7:20 – 24’s End Time Christianity did “… Prophesying, Casting Out Demons, Miracles … conversions of MANY …” but Christ Says, “… I NEVER KNEW YOU …” due to LAWLESSNESS. Matthew 5:19 – 20 Christ Says one’s righteousness will need to exceed the Pharisees in obedience to “His Commands” (not the abolished Torah parts but ‘what He Commanded and re-enforced for the New Testament’).

 

  1. Please notice also carefully that CHRIST DID NOT Consider “… CONVERTING MANY to CHRISTIANITY based on PROPHESYING, CASTING OUT DEMONS and MIRACLES, …” as ‘Gospel Work‘ (nor as Fulfilling the Will of the Father) if it is with #LAWLESSNESS DENYING all of these in Verses here proving that “Preaching HIS COMMANDS” is MORE IMPORTANT than any of these gifts. Can you “see” it as it is Written from CHRIST’s WORDS ONLY here?

 

2)  WHY did CHRIST DENY them in Matthew 7:20 – 24? He clearly gives the reason as LAWLESSNESS. Only “fewrealize that CHRIST SPOKE of TWO TYPES of LAWLESSNESS namely:

 

  1. i) LAWLESSNESS OUTSIDE = Outward Sins

 

  1. ii) LAWLESSNESS INSIDE = Primarily “love of money and Prosperity” (i.e. “Self Indulgence“)

 

Here are those two points IN CHRIST’S WORDS and HIS CURE (so why DENY HIM?)

 

  1. i) LAWLESSNESS OUTSIDE = Outward Sins can be CLEANSED by KEEPING the HOLINESS COMMANDS

 

“… 42“But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me [i]to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. 43If your HAND causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to ENTER INTO LIFE [j]MAIMED, rather than having two hands, to go to [k]HELL [Gehenna], into the FIRE that shall NEVER BE QUENCHED— 44[l]where ‘Their WORM DOES NOT DIE And the FIRE is NOT QUENCHED.’ 45And if your FOOT causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to ENTER LIFE LAME, rather than having two feet, to be cast into [m] HELL [Gehenna][n]into the FIRE that SHALL NEVER BE QUENCHED— 46where ‘Their WORM DOES NOT DIE And the FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.’ 47And if your EYE causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD with ONE EYE, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into [o]HELL [Gehenna] FIRE— 48where ‘Their WORM DOES NOT DIE And the FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.’ 49“For EVERYONE will be SEASONED WITH FIRE, and[p] every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt. 50Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 9:42 – 50, NKJV)

 

Christ is Quoting this Old Testament Verse Context and elaborating it above:

 

“… And they shall go forth, and look upon the CARCASSES OF THE MEN that have TRANSGRESSED AGAINST ME: for their WORM SHALL NOT DIE, NEITHER SHALL THEIR FIRE BE QUENCHED; and they shall be an abhorring unto ALL FLESH. …” (Isaiah 66:24, KJV)

 

Note: Did you notice that Isaiah 66:24 above only mentions that the “Carcasses” (or “Dead Bodies”, i.e. Body with no spirit and no soul) is burned forever and not that the ‘spirit is burned forever’? In Christ’s quote below referring to Isaiah 66:24 above in the context of “unquenchable fire”, He seems to point to ‘saving your body parts’ namely ‘your eye if it causes you to sin’ or ‘your hands if it causes you to sin’ etc. implying that the Wicked who suffer this Gehenna (Lake of Fire) Judgment do not have a “body” anymore post-Judgment (this is “possibilitynot doctrine as it’s hard to decide).

 

  1. ii) LAWLESSNESS INSIDE = Primarily “love of money and Prosperity” (i.e. “Self Indulgence”)

 

“… 25“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you CLEANSE THE OUTSIDE OF THE CUP and dish, but INSIDE THEY ARE FULL OF EXTORTION and [l]SELF-INDULGENCE. 26Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like WHITEWASHED TOMBS which indeed appear BEAUTIFUL OUTWARDLY, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28Even so you also OUTWARDLY APPEAR RIGHTEOUS TO MEN, but INSIDE YOU ARE FULL OF HYPOCRISY AND LAWLESSNESS. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 23:25 – 28, NKJV)

 

“… 39Then the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees make the OUTSIDE OF THE CUP and DISH CLEAN, but YOUR INWARD PART is full of [k]GREED and WICKEDNESS. 40FOOLISH ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also? 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. 42“But woe to you Pharisees! For YOU TITHE mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and PASS BY JUSTICE and the LOVE of GOD These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE. 43Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the [m]best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. 44Woe to you, [n]scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like graves which are not seen, and the men who walk over them are not aware of them.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 11:39 – 45, NKJV

Comment:

 

That should reveal to us that MONEY SINS are the “Worst there is” and it is also clear in the “lives of the Pharisees likewise” (whom Christ attacked vehemently) where CHRIST DOES NOT point once that the Pharisees committed “adultery, murder, witchcraft, idolatry,” BUT HE POINTED their “PROSPERITY SINS” (Christ’s Phrase “Self Indulgence” in Matthew 23:25) with “Tithe collecting” (for self survival) but NOT CARING for the ALMSGIVING (CHARITY DOCTRINE) and especially “not” with their money as even Luke 11:39 – 42 has clearly Described this Context in Christ’s Most Blessed Words as it is Written calling them “whitewashed tombs” (because ‘outwardly they were religious in praying, fasting and Church Attendance with NO adultery, NO Murder, NO Witchcraft, NO idolatry etc’).

 

Note: Even “Tithe-Paying” did NOT fulfill NEITHER the JUSTICE NOR THE LOVE OF GOD part in CHRIST’S OWN WORDS ABOVE where GIVE ALMS (where ALMS = #CharityDoctrineLifestyle fulfills it did), to quote again:

 

“… 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. 42“But woe to you Pharisees! For YOU TITHE mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and PASS BY JUSTICE and the LOVE of GOD …”

 

Comment: If someone is going to quote these Verses by CHRIST to Preach tithing for the New Testament, imagine that same person Asked by CHRIST on JUDGMENT DAY as regards to WHY HE DID NOT PREACH the #CharityDoctrine part which is ALSO PREACHED in these SAME SET of VERSES as GREATER and MORE IMPORTANT as it only FULFILLS the WILL OF THE FATHER for both #JUSTICE and #LoveOfGod in #ACTION.

 

Also CHRIST HIMSELF Reveals here that “ ALMS/CHARITY from WHAT YOU HAVE” (personal money/possessions and “not” donation money nor church money “only”) is the CURE (in Luke 11:39 – 42) and Apostle Paul made it  clear that such “covetouswill “not” inherit the “Kingdom of God” (Ephesians 5:5 – 6, Colossians 3:5) as the Pharisees were good with ‘Charity with other people’s money likewise’ and true CHRISTIANS ought to EXCEED this “Pharisees’ righteousness in this also’ to ENTER HEAVEN by DOING the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle with including “THEIR OWN MONEY TOO“.

 

Can you “see” it as “it is Written“?

 

Please don’t forget “‘relative measure” because ‘God Himself Measures’ for if not, He Wouldn’t have Said so as per Verses below (where it’s not the number of people affected by it or anything as the case of the poor widow’s giving may have fed few if any but yet was ‘most):

 

“… [1And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, 2and He saw also a CERTAIN POOR WIDOW putting in two mites.][a] 3So He said, “TRULY I say to you that this POOR widow has put in MORE THAN ALL; 4for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings [b]for God, but she OUT OF HER POVERTY PUT IN ALL THE LIVELIHOOD THAT SHE HAD.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 21:1 – 4, NKJV)

Please allow me to repeat, “God Measures”: Christ Taught this Clearly in Verses below likewise as it affects your “Eternal Home” (Reward Level, as the same Word “Aeonian” translated as “Eternal” here in Luke 16:9 below is also used in the ‘Eternal Life’ Vs ‘Eternal Punishment’ in Matthew 25:46 too):

 

“…  9“And I say to you, MAKE FRIENDS FOR YOURSELVES by UNRIGHTEOUS [D]MAMMON, that when [e]you fail, they may receive you into an EVERLASTING HOME [4633 [e] skēnas/Dwelling/Tabernacle]. 10He who is FAITHFUL in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much. 11Therefore IF YOU HAVE NOT BEEN FAITHFUL IN THE UNRIGHTEOUS MAMMON, WHO WILL COMMIT TO YOUR TRUST THE TRUE RICHES? 12And if you have not been faithful in what is another man’s, who will give you what is your own? 13“No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. YOU CANNOT SERVE GOD AND MAMMON.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:9 – 13, NKJV)

 

In short, CHRIST DECLARES (“not” me) that the FAITHFULNESS of a CHRISTIAN is “not” measured by ‘… how many hours he prays, fasts, attends church, worships etc. …‘ (if someone says so, please ask them FOR A BIBLE VERSE where CHRIST SAYS it DIRECTLY and you will find “none“) in comparison to as much as one LIVES and DOES this CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE as Christ Clearly Asks in Verses above.

 

or in another translation:

 

“… 9Here’s the lesson: USE YOUR WORLDLY RESOURCES to BENEFIT OTHERS AND MAKE FRIENDS. Then, when your possessions are gone, they will welcome you to an ETERNAL HOME. 10“If you are faithful in little things, you will be faithful in large ones. But if you are dishonest in little things, you won’t be honest with greater responsibilities. 11And IF YOU ARE UNTRUSTWORTHY ABOUT WORLDLY WEALTH, who will trust you with the TRUE RICHES OF HEAVEN? 12And if you are not faithful with other people’s things, why should you be trusted with things of your own? …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:9 – 12, NLT)

Note: The Word translated “EVERLASTING/ETERNAL” (Aeonian) in this Verse above (Luke 16:8) is the same word used commonly to prove “ETERNAL life Vs ETERNAL Hell” (e.g. Matthew 25:46). So whether it is “Eternal or to the Age/Aeon” it signifies the ‘Heavenly Home’ or “Everlasting Habitations” (Final Resurrected Body’s Glory or Heavenly Dwelling or both) which is affected by the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle of how Christians ought to use ‘our worldly possessions to benefit others’ as Christ Himself Clearly Teaches in Verses above.

 

Who else gets “Heaven“?

 

“… BLESSED are those who are PERSECUTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS’ SAKE, For THEIRS IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:10, NKJV)

 

The “poor BEGGAR Lazarus” was Saved because he couldn’t do the #CharityDoctrine but yet he SUFFERED for RIGHTEOUSNESS’S SAKE because he was BULLIED FINANCIALLY via that RICH MAN who DID NOT WANT TO SHARE with him (can you “see” it?) fulfilling this Verse above. This also refers to MARTYRS or THOSE MISSIONARIES for CHRIST who SUFFERED for the GOSPEL in some way.

 

What about the “Poor in Spirit” phrase?

 

[From Pages 353 to 356 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

“… BLESSED are the POOR IN SPIRIT For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. …” (Matthew 5:3, NKJV)

 

“… 20Then He lifted up His eyes TOWARD HIS DISCIPLES, and said: “BLESSED ARE YOU POOR, For yours is the kingdom of God. … 24“But WOE TO YOU WHO ARE RICH, For you have received your consolation.  …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:20, 24, NKJV)

 

Comment: It is possible that Christ also Spoke of “Poor in Spirit” as different from “Poor” earlier (Luke 6:20) as the ending phrases for each Verse here is different namely, “… Kingdom of God …” (Luke 6:20) vs “… Kingdom of Heaven …” (Matthew 5:3). We know Christ can Repeat the Same thing “twice” within the same sentence even as per example Verse below too:

 

“… 23Then JESUS SAID TO HIS DISCIPLES, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is HARD for a RICH MAN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. 24And AGAIN I say to you, it is EASIER for a CAMEL to go through the EYE of a NEEDLE than for a RICH MAN to enter the kingdom of God. …” (Matthew 19:23 – 24, NKJV)

 

Can you see how Christ Repeats almost the same message “twice” in Verses above? Also please note that He Said this to “His Disciples” (Context).

 

Poor in spirit” means these:

 

  1. i) Apostle St. James

 

“… 1Come now, YOU RICH, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! 2Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. 3Your GOLD and SILVER are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will EAT YOUR FLESH LIKE FIRE. You have HEAPED up TREASURE in the LAST DAYS. … 5You have lived on the earth in PLEASURE and LUXURY; you have fattened your hearts as in a DAY of SLAUGHTER. …” – Blessed St. James the Just, First Bishop of Jerusalem (James 5:1 – 3, 5, NKJV)

 

Comment: Where is the “Threshold” for Hoarding? Only God Knows.

 

We also know that in this ‘same letter’ (Context), Apostle St. James compared that the “literally financially poor on earth ones” are the “CHOSEN” (Elect of God) to be “RICH in FAITH” in Verse below:

 

“… Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not CHOSEN the POOR of THIS WORLD to be RICH IN FAITH and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? …” (James 2:5, NKJV)

 

Christ Affirms this Truth in this Church in Revelation which was “poor financially on earth (in “poverty“)” but RICH in the HEAVENLY CONTEXT, Verse:

 

“… 9“I know your works, TRIBULATION, and POVERTY  (but YOU ARE RICH); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a [e]synagogue of Satan.  …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Revelation 2:9, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

  1. ii) Apostle St. Paul

 

“… 17COMMAND THOSE WHO ARE RICH in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18Let THEM DO GOOD, that they be RICH IN GOOD WORKS, READY TO GIVE, WILLING TO SHARE, 19storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that THEY MAY LAY HOLD ON ETERNAL LIFE. …” (1 Timothy 6:17 – 19, NKJV)

 

Comment: Please notice that the CHARITY DOCTRINE ACTS of “Do Good” in the Context of “GIVING for FREE (implied)” and “SHARING for FREE (implied too)” is not to be done in ‘moderation level’ but they are COMMANDED to be “RICH” in such “GOOD WORKS” (Relative Measure meant).

 

iii) St. Ephiphanius

 

“… 401 8r,3 But he does not know that the Old Testament also says, “The poor and the rich have met together: but the Lord is the maker of them both.” 402 And the New Testament agrees, and pronounces a BLESSING on the POOR who are LITERALLY POOR, and in ANOTHER PASSAGE a BLESSING on the POOR in SPIRIT, so that BOTH PRONOUNCEMENTS have FORCE. Thus Peter can point with pride to his LITERAL POVERTY and say, “Silver and gold have I none, but what I have, I give thee; in the name of Jesus Christ, rise up and walk,” 403 (4) so that the BLESSING of the ACTUALLY POOR means NOTHING CONTRADICTORY to the BLESSING of the POOR IN SPIRIT. The “POOR in SPIRIT” are persons in RIGHTEOUS POSSESSION of PROPERTY, while the “poor” are the humble, of whom Christ said, “I was an hungered, and YE GAVE ME MEAT, thirsty, and YE GAVE me DRINK,” and so on 81,5 Next he explains, ‘These (i.e., the POOR in SPIRIT) ACTED of THEIR ABUNDANCE”; … And do you see how, in the Old and the New Testaments, the poor are called blessed for piety, and the rich are called blessed for righteousness? …” – Blessed St. Epiphanius, Bishop of Salamis and the ‘Hammer of Heretics’, (c. 310 AD – c. 403 AD, ‘MANICHAEANS’ , “Panarion or Medicine-Chest”, Point 62.10, Pages 308 – 309)

Source:

https://archive.org/stream/EpiphaniusPanarionBksIIIII1/Epiphanius%20-%20_Panarion_%20-%20Bks%20II%20%26%20III%20-%201_djvu.txt

 

 

  1. iv) The Bible Verses below mysteriously Reveal that a “Contrite Heart” can never reside inside a person with “Covetousness” (i.e. those who love earthly things, possessions and money), Verses:

 

“… 15For thus says the High and Lofty One

Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy:

“I dwell in the high and holy place,

With him who has a contrite and humble spirit,

To revive the spirit of the humble,

And to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

16For I will not contend forever,

Nor will I always be angry;

For the spirit would fail before Me,

And the souls which I have made.

17For the INIQUITY OF HIS COVETOUSNESS

I was ANGRY AND STRUCK HIM;

I hid and was angry,

And he went on [e]BACKSLIDING in the way of his heart. …” (Isaiah 57:15 – 17, NKJV)

 

Please notice that the sin of “Covetousness” is the “only sin” mentioned here and is considered as “backsliding” and also is compared against the ones who are “Contrite and Humble in spirit” meaning the latter do not have this attitude.

 

“… 17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,

A broken and a contrite heart—

These, O God, You will not despise….” (Psalm 51:17, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

 

  1. v) St. Augustine of Hippo

 

Even St. Augustine of Hippo did NOT see this as a ‘small matter’ but a MAJOR DOCTRINE in that CHRISTIANS who LOVE PROSPERITY or do “not” have enough #CharityDoctrineLifestyle (implied) are only saved AFTER SOME PURGATORY FIRE first AFTER DEATH (so even St. Augustine NEVER saw CHRIST’s SAVING POWER hindered if salvation was available in the Spirit World AFTER JUDGMENT as Calvinism strongly opposes):

 

“…”69. It is not incredible that something like this should occur after this life, whether or not it is a matter for fruitful inquiry. It may be discovered or remain hidden whether SOME of the FAITHFUL are sooner or later to be SAVED by a sort of PURGATORIAL FIRE, in PROPORTION as they have LOVED THE GOODS that PERISH, and in PROPORTION to THEIR ATTCHMENT TO THEM.“[63] …” – Blessed St. Augustine of Hippo, Doctor of the Church, who influenced virtually all of subsequent Western philosophy and Catholic theology, as well as a significant amount of Protestant theology, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church     (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD, [63] “St. Augustine, Enchiridion: On Faith, Hope, and Love (1955). English translation”)

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory

 

In his famous  quote here, St. Augustine of Hippo is talking about the CONTEXT of the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle  for the CONTEXT OF REMOVAL OF JUDGMENT OF SINS based on the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE LIVED FIRST in LIFE PRIOR before SALVATION in the SPIRIT WORLD is granted (though he limits this occurrence to ‘Christians only’ which is DEBATABLE especially with the SHEPHERD of HERMAS or other Church Father quotes etc. but the POINT that CHARITY DOCTRINE  is ESENTIAL for FRUIT of ETERNAL LIFE is clearly Taught in First Christianity), in St. Augustine’s own words below too (which is from the same quote above but different translation and fuller, as I said the fact remains the same regardless of the source):

 

“… Chapter 69. It is Not Impossible that Some Believers May Pass Through a Purgatorial Fire in the Future Life. … And it is not impossible that something of the same kind may take place even after this life. It is a matter that may be inquired into, and either ascertained or left doubtful, whether SOME BELIEVERS SHALL PASS through a KIND OF PURGATORIAL FIRE, and in PROPORTION AS THEY HAVE LOVED WITH MORE or LESS DEVOTION THE GOODS THAT PERISH, BE LESS OR MORE QUICKLY DELIVERED FROM IT. This cannot, however, be the case of any of those of whom it is said, that they shall not inherit the kingdom of God, unless after SUITABLE REPENTANCE THEIR SINS be FORGIVEN THEM. WHEN I SAY SUITABLE, I mean that THEY ARE NOT TO BE UNFRUITFUL in ALMSGIVING; for HOLY SCRIPTURE LAYS SO MUCH STRESS ON THIS VIRTUE, THAT our LORD TELLS US BEFOREHAND, that HE WILL ASCRIBE NO MERIT to THOSE ON HIS RIGHT HAND but THAT THEY ABOUND IN IT, and no defect to those on His left hand but their want of it, when He shall say to the former, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom, and to the latter, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire. ” … Chapter 70. Almsgiving Will Not Atone for Sin Unless the Life Be Changed. …We must beware, however, lest any one should suppose that gross sins, such as are committed by those who shall not inherit the kingdom of God, may be daily perpetrated, and daily atoned for by almsgiving. The life must be changed for the better; and almsgiving must be used to propitiate God for past sins, not to purchase impunity for the commission of such sins in the future. For He has given no man license to sin, although in His mercy He may blot out sins that are already committed, if we do not neglect to make proper satisfaction.  …” – Blessed St. Augustine of Hippo, Doctor of the Church, who influenced virtually all of subsequent Western philosophy and Catholic theology, as well as a significant amount of Protestant theology, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD, [63]  Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love (St. Augustine) Translated by J.F. Shaw. From Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series, Vol. 3. Edited by Philip Schaff. (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Publishing Co., 1887.) Revised and edited for New Advent by Kevin Knight.”) Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1302.htm

 

So since St. Augustine of Hippo is saved even according to John Calvin himself (the founder of Reformed Churches) and if he taught this Doctrine, we can too and be saved where we debate on its accuracy using other First Christianity writing whether or not this refers to fallen Christians only or beyond even as a “non-Elect Salvation” too. can you “see” it?

 

Also the “Opinion of St. Augustine” is very important indeed simply because even Blessed John Calvin (Founder of the Reformed Church Protestants) himself learnt his theology from St. Augustine’s Writings. Example quote:

“…  Augustine is so wholly within me, that if I wished to write a confession of my faith, I could do so with all fullness and satisfaction to myself out of his writings  …” – Blessed John Calvin, Protestant Reformer Theologian (Creator of the Five Point Calvinism or Tulips Doctrine for Protestanism)

Source: Calvin, John. A Treatise on the Eternal Predestination of God. in Calvin, John (1987). Calvin’s Calvinism. Translated by Henry Cole. Grandville, MI: Reformed Free Publishing Association. p. 38  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustinian_Calvinism

Let God Decide who is right and reward that and also have Mercy on our Theological Errors (either way).

 

Regarding this “AFTERLIFE or SPIRIT WORLD Salvation POSSIBILITY (not Doctrine as you can see it’s difficult as even St. Augustine didn’t believe in “Calvinism’s Sola Fide” on this aspect but is saved too, right?) I have discussed say in detail in Pages 1600 to 1671 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook especially with the “Shepherd of Hermas” Writing focus.

 

Compare: The “Prison” till the “Last Penny” seem to refer to the “Gehenna” (Final Hell or Lake of Fire Context) because Christ was talking about that Topic in Verses below:

 

 

“…  22 But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in DANGER of HELL [Gehenna] fire. 23Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into PRISON. 26Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till YOU HAVE PAID THE LAST PENNY. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:22 – 26, NKJV)

 

In another time, Christ uses that same phrase “Till the Last Penny” to refer to the “FIRE” He came to Kindle which is not kindled yet could mean ‘Lake of Fire Context’ too:

 

“… 49“I came to send FIRE on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! … 57“Yes, and why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right? 58When you go with your adversary to the magistrate, make every effort along the way to settle with him, lest he drag you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and the officer throw you into PRISON . 59I tell you, you shall NOT DEPART FROM THERE TILL YOU HAVE PAID THE VERY LASY MITE. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:49, 57 – 59, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

 

In yet another time CHRIST uses that same phrase “Till the Last Penny” to refer to the “unforgiveness attitude some have” which could mean ‘Lake of Fire or Hades Context’ too:

 

“… 32Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34And his master was angry, and DELIVERED HIM TO THE TORTURERS UNTIL HE SHOULD PAY ALL THAT WAS DUE TO HIM. 35“So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [g]his trespasses. …” – Most Blessed Judge & KING of kings, Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 18:32 – 35, NKJV)

 

Note: please notice that these are three different conversations which may with the Didache quote may point to the fact that ‘not only that receiving money for not needs type of sin’ may merit that Judgment but more things too even possibly point to Hades now and Gehenna later too to be based on this Same Principle of Judgmenttill the last penny’ in which case since the Wicked has “not” good deeds, they pay it (metaphorically) by losing both their “body and soul being destroyed in the Lake of Fire (Gehenna) as Matthew 10:28” points as the PAYING which CHRIST MEANS is Recorded as “… and DELIVERED HIM TO THE TORTURERS UNTIL HE SHOULD PAY ALL THAT WAS DUE TO HIM. …”

 

  1. The word “Confinement” is equivalent to “Prison” and the phrase “till the last penny” may also help us to understand these Bible Verses to Speak of Spirit World Judgment Context too likewise

 

So, can “Prison” refer to Hades (Hell now)?

 

The Word “PRISON” as a Metaphor to refer to HADES (Hell now) type of Salvation is ‘possible’ based on Verses below (please notice the word “PRISON” carefully in each Verses quoted here, by Christ earlier and also in the Didache as ‘Confinement’ carefully):

 

“… 18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring [f]us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the SPIRITS in PRISON, 20who FORMERLY were DISOBEDIENT, [g]when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.  …” (1 Peter 3:18 – 20, NKJV)

 

Note: The righteous spirits were “not in prison” (but in comfort regions as Abraham’s Bosom as Christ Taught in Luke 16:19 – 31) and the context here refers to “Disobedient” ones which cannot refer to the ‘Old Testament righteous’. The phrase “Formerly Disobedient” can mean that these have repented in the Spirit World and thus are ‘not disobedient’ anymore. Please also notice that they are in ‘the spirit-state’ which can mean that the wicked may be saved eventually in a ‘spirit-state’ only likewise with “no body and no soul”.

 

Also, can “Prison” refer to the Lake of Fire/Gehenna (Final Hell)?

 

At the same time, similarly, the Word “PRISON” as a Metaphor to refer to the Lake of Fire/Gehenna (Final Hell)? type of Salvation is ‘possible’ based on Verses below (please notice the word “PRISON” carefully in each Verses quoted here, by Christ earlier and also in the Didache as ‘Confinement’ carefully):

 

“… 21And it shall come to pass IN THAT DAY, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 22And they shall be gathered together, AS PRISONERS ARE GATHERED IN THE PIT, and shall be SHUT UP IN THE PRISON, and AFTER MANY DAYS shall they be VISITED. …” (Isaiah 24:21 – 22, KJV)

 

Note: This ‘Saved in the Spirit’ possibility after both Body and Soul are Destroyed in Gehenna is discussed in detail in Appendix IV in the #EternalHellAnnihilationUniversalismBook .

 

I have discussed such as “possibility” in Pages 1658 to 1668 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook with Various other First Christianity quotes with Bible Verses which can refer to such a “non-Elect Salvation possibility”.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) What did CHRIST SAY (not men) regarding what TO DO TO ENTER HEAVEN?

 

Christ Said that “noteveryoneEnters Heaven” but only those who can “do this” referring to “your righteousness” must be greater than the “Pharisees’

 

“… For I say unto you, That except YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS [1343 dikaiosynē] shall EXCEED the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in NO CASE ENTER into the kingdom of HEAVEN. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:20, KJV)

 

 

The Greek Word used for “Righteousness” here is “1343 [e] dikaiosynē” which can be verified in Interlinear below too:

 

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/5-20.htm

 

“… 19Whoever therefore BREAKS one of the LEAST of THESE COMMANDMENTS, and TEACHES men so, shall be called LEAST in the kingdom of HEAVEN; but whoever DOES AND TEACHES them, he shall be called GREAT in the kingdom of HEAVEN. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:19, NKJV)

 

“… 46“But WHY DO YOU CALL ME ‘LORD, LORD,’ and NOT DO THE THINGS WHICH I SAY? 47Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: 48He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:46 – 48, NKJV)

 

“… 18And JESUS CAME AND SPOKE TO THEM, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. …” (Matthew 28:18 – 20, NKJV)

 

“… 13MAKING THE WORD OF GOD OF NO EFFECT THROUGH YOUR TRADITION which you have handed down. And many such things you do.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:13, NKJV)

 

4) Is ENTERING HEAVEN A REWARD? yes as CHRIST Teaches as follows:

 

“… 12“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My REWARD is with Me, to GIVE TO EVERY ONE ACCORDING TO HIS WORK. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” 14BLESSED are those WHO DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have the RIGHT to THE TREE OF LIFE, and may ENTER through the GATES INTO THE CITY. 15But OUTSIDE are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. 16“I, JESUS, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star. …” (Revelation 22:12 – 16, NKJV)

The phrase “RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE” and to “ENTER through the GATES INTO THE CITY.” are given as a REWARD (Context, please notice this word carefully by CHRIST ABOVE) for “those WHO DO HIS COMMANDMENTS” as part of “12“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My REWARD is with Me, to GIVE TO EVERY ONE ACCORDING TO HIS WORK“.

 

This FREE CHOICE is REWARDABLE with CROWN especially in the Context of Temptation simply because GOD DOES NOT TEMPT ANYBODY but allows a “FAIR CHOICE” of both TEMPTATION and ESCAPE to be there (which can be influenced by HIS WILL, Satan and also other humans via interaction or even angels too invisible to us):

 

“… 12Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. 16Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. …” (James 1:12 – 16, NKJV)

with

“… There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. …” (1 Corinthians 10:13, KJV)

 

Perhaps one can be “saved” but NOT ENTER HEAVEN too as per “possibleexplanation below:

 

These saved “sheep” of the nations could be part of the “nations of those who are saved” revealed in Verses below 1000 years later after the CHRISTIAN Salvation where even THE BRIDE (CHURCH) seems to be distinctly contrasted in Heaven (“Heavenly Jerusalem“) as opposed to them being saved on that FINAL NEW EARTH only where ONLY those with NAMES in the LAMB’S BOOK of LIFE get to VISIT that FINAL HEAVENLY JERUSALEM which connects to that FINAL NEW EARTH (also implying the ‘possibility’ that there could be some saved on that final New Earth whose names may not be in the Lamb’s Book of Life and hence CANNOT enter into the CITY for if all entered into the city among the saved nations, then this clause seems unnecessary and the gate seems unnecessary unless it FILTERS those among the saved who have THEIR NAMES in the BOOK of LIFE only to ENTER while the rest saved on the NEW EARTH could be regular ones, hence non-Elect Salvation of this type who could have HEALING from the LEAVES of the TREE of LIFE too with earthly resurrection bodies as discussed in other Pages of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ), Verses:

 

“… But THE REST OF THE DEAD DID NOT LIVE AGAIN until the THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED. This is the first resurrection. … 11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. …”1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was NO MORE SEA.  ” … Come, I will show you the [g]BRIDE, the LAMB’S WIFE.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED ME THE [H]GREAT CITY, the [I]HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN from God,  … 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE. …” … In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the TREE OF LIFE, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 20:5, 11 – 15, 21:1, 9 – 10, 24 – 27,  22:2, NKJV)

 

[Note: quotes are from various pages of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook mostly]

 

Conclusion

 

CHRIST Calls those who ENTER HEAVEN as “Worthy” for OBEYING HIS COMMANDS of the NEW TESTAMENT and so that’s the REAL FAITH challenge here [please notice the word “Worthycarefully in each Verse below by CHRIST HIMSELF – any dare to ‘argue against HIS OWN WORDS’ here quoted each time?]:

 

  1. i) Only the WORTHY make it to the FIRST RESURRECTION and the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ

 

“… 34JESUS ANSWERED and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are counted worthy to attain that AGE (Aeon/Olam), and the resurrection from the dead (Revelation 20:4 – 6), NEITHER MARRY NOR ARE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE; 36NOR CAN THEY DIE ANYMORE, FOR THEY ARE EQUAL TO THE ANGELS and ARE SONS OF GOD, being SONS OF THE RESURRECTION. …” (Luke 20:34 – 36, NKJV)

 

  1. ii) An entire Church may “not” enter HEAVEN but ONLY A FEW NAMES as the CHURCH OF SARDIS Case itself PROVES due to WORKS NOT PERFECT (yes, again by CHRIST HIMSELF SPEAKING in VERSES here):

 

“… 1“And to the [a]angel of the CHURCH IN SARDIS write, ‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before [b]God. 3Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4[c]You have a FEW names [d]even in SARDIS who have NOT DEFILED THEIR GARMENTS; and they shall WALK WITH ME IN WHITE, FOR THEY ARE WORTHY. 5He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. 6“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ …” (Revelation 3:1 – 6, NKJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/nkjv/revelation/3.htm

Comment: The idea of “Works being Perfect before God” as a Criteria for Salvation as “Fruits” of “Repentance” as the Shepherd of Hermas emphasizes may also be seen in CHRIST’S WARNING in the Book of Revelation to the Church at Sardis where (they have “a name of faith” and “some works”) but if it’s NOT “perfect”, one could be “unsaved”.

 

iii) St. John the Baptist (the “Real” Fore-Runner for Christ) in the ‘only Sermon recorded in Scripture’ regarding where he explains WHICH FRUITS of REPENTANCE are “WORTHY” for if not, it’s cast in “fire” (similar phrases used by Christ in Matthew 7:13 – 24, so ‘same Context’ can you see it?) is this:

 

“… 7Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8Therefore bear FRUITS WORTHY OF REPENTANCE, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 9And even now the AX IS LAID TO THE ROOT OF THE TREES. Therefore EVERY TREE which DOES NOT BEAR GOOD FRUIT Is cut down and THROWN INTO THE FIRE.” 10So the people asked him, saying, “What shall we do then?” 11He answered and said to them, “HE WHO HAS TWO TUNICS, let him GIVE TO HIM WHO HAS NONE; and HE WHO HAS FOOD, LET HIM DO LIKEWISE.” 12Then tax collectors also came to be baptized, and said to him, “Teacher, what shall we do?” 13And he said to them, “COLLECT NO MORE THAN WHAT IS APPOINTED FOR YOU.” 14Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, “And what shall we do?” So he said to them, “DO NOT INTIMIDATE ANYONE or ACCUSE FALSELY, and BE CONTENT WITH YOUR WAGES. …” (Luke 3:7 – 14, NKJV)

Isn’t it amazing that St. John the Baptist’s Definition of the “Fruits WORTHY of Repentance” or GOOD FRUIT without which a Tree is thrown into FIRE is likewise ‘… Good Works primarily referring to SHARING FOOD/CLOTHES…’ , be CONTENT WITH YOUR WAGES (so no faith for Wealth as the Prosperity Gospel errs) and “cease to do evil” (e.g. don’t extort others or don’t take more than what’s appointed for you etc.),  in the above.

 

Did you notice that St. John the Baptist only lists out “money related things” to be avoided for FRUITS to be WORTHY because without it, even the “outward holiness” becomes “whitewashed tombs” as the “case of Pharisees” as we saw CHRIST EXPLAIN earlier as only the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle cleans the “LAWLESSNESS INSIDE” and so CHRIST SUMMARIZED it beautifully in Verses below that for ETERNAL LIFE in HEAVEN CONTEXT (please notice the word “Heaven” carefully in Verses below) the FRUITS are “Holiness Commands” and the #CharityDoctrine:

 

“… 20The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [g]from my youth. What do I STILL LACK?” 21JESUS said to him, “IF you want to be PERFECT, go, SELL what YOU HAVE and GIVE to the POOR, and YOU WILL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN; and come, FOLLOW ME.” 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away SORROWFUL, for he had GREAT POSSESSIONS.23Then JESUS said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is HARD for a RICH MAN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. 24And AGAIN I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. …” (Matthew 19:20 – 24, NKJV)

 

Do you really thinkHis Words will pass away” and a ‘new way’ is open to any of us?

 

“… Heaven and earth will pass away, but MY WORDS WILL BY NO MEANS PASS AWAY. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (Matthew 24:35, NKJV)

 

So are we “Preaching these BIBLE Verses by CHRIST DIRECTLY in the CONTEXT of SALVATION, REWARDS and JUDGMENT in regard to this CHARITY DOCTRINE?”

 

‘… Preaching Christ is not just Speaking about Him but also Preaching what He Spoke …’

 

Peace to you

 

 

FEW WORTHY ones at the Church at Sardis Mystery with St. Melito Jewish Bishop of Sardis

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/pfbid0MdiL97dXNTYV8aVxvjHirDe6zyT2tqmFU78bpxj7a63aUYdVkGihurShkv6bHKjHl

 

Contents: Regarding St. Melito of Sardis, here we are going to view these “mysterious part from his writings” for these “reasons“:

 

1) Church at Sardis mentioned in the Book of Revelation

 

2) When were his writings discovered and what do the most respected Protestant Scholars themselves say about St. Melito?

 

3) Old Testament Canon

 

4) Trinity Doctrine

 

5) Free Choice Doctrine

 

6) Chiliasm Doctrine’

 

7) Non Elect Salvation or Universalism

 

Let’s view each of the above with “details“.

 

 

 

 

 

1) Church at Sardis mentioned in the Book of Revelation

 

Why is this important?

 

Because CHRIST Specifically pointed to a FEW only from the CHURCH of SARDIS to ENTER HEAVEN (“walk in WHITE” phrase) and fortunately a recent ancient discovery about the CHURCH of SARDIS regarding POSSIBLY one of the FEW PERSONS referred to by CHRIST could BE UNDERSTOOD INDIRECTLY via ST. MELITO who WAS THE BISHOP of SARDIS as the BISHOP just after that in SUCCESSION (and so COULD PRESERVE WHAT THOSE FEW “WORTHY” ones IN SARDIS BELIEVED and PRACTICED). Can you see it?

 

[ to quote from Page 1711 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Yes, An entire Church may “not” enter HEAVEN but ONLY A FEW NAMES as the CHURCH OF SARDIS Case itself PROVES due to WORKS NOT PERFECT (yes, again by CHRIST HIMSELF SPEAKING in VERSES here):

 

“… 1“And to the [a]angel of the CHURCH IN SARDIS write, ‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before [b]God. 3Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4[c]You have a FEW names [d]even in SARDIS who have NOT DEFILED THEIR GARMENTS; and they shall WALK WITH ME IN WHITE, FOR THEY ARE WORTHY. 5He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. 6“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ …” (Revelation 3:1 – 6, NKJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/nkjv/revelation/3.htm

 

So WHAT St. Melito of Sardis BELIEVED could be a REASON WHY the FEW from SARDIS who are CALLED WORTHY by THE LORD JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF in Verses above (either at that time or immediately after that time AFTER THE CORRECTION via the BOOK of REVELATION VERSES here) as he was “the Bishop of Sardis” (in this ‘same CHURCH at SARDIS itself’ and each Church those days ONLY HAD ONE BISHOP not one Church in every corner of a city with its own bishops and pastors – can you SEE it? and thus it is highly unlikely that St. Melito of Sardis believed ‘differently’ from those WORTHY ones at SARDIS just before his time and being the BISHOP of THAT CHURCH itself in succession, he could NOT have ERRED in DOCTRINE and BE SO CELEBRATED ACROSS ALL OF FIRST CHRISTIANITY with ‘not one quote against him exists in regards to his orthodoxy, can you see it, right?’).

 

So, what did he believe? we will see “his own words” quoted soon.

 

Also, please note that just like anyApostolic Fathers” writings and their immediate successors, St. Melito of Sardis’ writing also does NOT have any “Prayer to Virgin Mary NOR the saints or equivalent”.

 

2) When were his writings discovered and what do the most respected Protestant Scholars themselves say about St. Melito?

 

“… Fragments of Melito of Sardis Melito, the Philosopher.

————

[a.d. 160-170-177.] Melito may have been the immediate successor of the “angel” (or “apostle”) of the church of Sardis, to whom our Great High Priest addressed one of the apocalyptic messages. He was an “Apostolic Father” in point of fact; he very probably knew the blessed Polycarp and his disciple Irenaeus. He is justly revered for the diligence with which he sought out the evidence which, in his day, established the Canon of the Old Testament, then just complete.

 

In the following fragments we find him called Bishop of Sardis, Bishop of Ittica, and Bishop of Ittica. He is also introduced to us as “the Philosopher,” and we shall find him styled “the Eunuch” by Polycrates. It is supposed that he had made himself a coelebs “for the kingdom of heaven’s sake,” without mistaking our Lord’s intent, as did Origen.

 

He was not a monk, but accepted a single estate to be the more free and single-eyed in the Master’s service. From the encyclopedic erudition of Lightfoot we glean some particulars, as follows:-

 

 

  1. I have adopted his date, as Lightfoot gives it,-that is, the period of his writings,-under the Antonines. The improbability of seventy years in the episcopate is reason enough for rejecting the idea that he was himself the “angel of the church of Sardis,” to whom our Lord sent the terrible rebuke.

 

  1. His silence concerning persecutions under Vespasian, Trojan, and Antoninus Pius cannot be pleaded to exempt them from this stain, against positive evidence to the contrary.

 

  1. A coincidence with Ignatius to the Ephesians will be noted hereafter.

 

  1. Melito, with Claudius Apollinaris and even Polycrates, may have been personally acquainted with Ignatius; of course, one with another. These lived not far from Smyrna; Asia Minor was, in the first century, the focus of Christian activity.

 

  1. We know of his visit to the East from his own account, preserved by Eusebius. The Christians of proconsular Asia were accustomed to such journeys. Even Clement of Alexandria may have met him, as he seems to have met Tatian and Theodotus.

 

  1. Melito vouches for the rescript of Hadrian, but his supposed reference to the edict of Antoninus does not bear close scrutiny as warrant for its authenticity.

 

  1. The Apology of our author was addressed to Aurelius in his mid-career as a sovereign, about a.d.170. Justin, Melito, Athenagoras, and Theophilus all tell the same sad story of imperial cruelty. Even when Justin wrote to Antoninus, Marcus was supreme in the councils of the elder emperor.

 

  1. He became a martyr, probably under Marcus Aurelius, circa a.d.177; some eminent critics have even dated his Apology as late as this. …”

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/melito.html

 

 

 

 

3) Old Testament Canon

 

St. Melito of Sardis used by GOD to determine the Old Testament Canon for the CHRISTIANS BIBLE at THAT TIME itself.

 

The BOOKS of the OLD TESTAMENT which were included by CHRISTIANS as SCRIPTURE was NOT determined by the unbelieving-Christ-rejecting “council of JamniaFOR JEWISH CHRISTIANS and CHRISTIANITY at THAT TIME but rather by this same St. Melito of Sardis himself:

 

“… Melito of Sardis (Greek: Μελίτων Σάρδεων Melítōn Sárdeōn; died c. 180) was the bishop of Sardis near Smyrna in western Anatolia, and a great authority in early Christianity. Melito held a foremost place in terms of bishops in Asia due to his personal influence and his literary works, most of which have been lost. What has been recovered, however, has provided a great insight into Christianity during the second century. Jerome, speaking of the Old Testament canon established by Melito, quotes Tertullian to the effect that he was esteemed as a prophet by many of the faithful. This work by Tertullian has been lost but Jerome quotes pieces regarding Melito for the high regard in which he was held at that time. Melito is remembered for his work on developing the first Old Testament Canon. Though it cannot be determined what date he was elevated to an episcopacy, it is probable that he was bishop during the arising controversy at Laodicea in regard to the observance of Easter, which resulted in him writing his most famous work, an Apology for Christianity to Marcus Aurelius. Little is known of his life outside what works are quoted or read by Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Eusebius. A letter of Polycrates of Ephesus to Pope Victor about 194 (Eusebius, Church History V.24) states that “Melito the eunuch [this is interpreted “the virgin” by Rufinus in his translation of Eusebius], whose whole walk was in the Holy Spirit”, was buried at Sardis.[1] His feast day is celebrated on April 1. … Polycrates of Ephesus, a notable bishop of the time, was a contemporary of Melito, and in one of the letters preserved by Eusebius, Polycrates describes Melito as having fully lived in the Spirit. Jewish by birth, Melito lived in an atmosphere where the type of Christianity practiced was largely oriented toward the Jewish form of the Christian faith.[2] Though Melito’s extant writings never quote directly from the New Testament corpus,[3] it is thought that his orientation represents the Johannine tradition, and that his theological understanding of Christ often mirrored that of John.[4]  … Melito gave the first Christian list of the canon in the Old Testament. In his canon he excludes the book of Esther and possibly all the Apocrypha though there is debate on whether he includes Wisdom. Around 170 after traveling to Palestine, and probably visiting the library at Caesarea Maritima, Melito compiled the earliest known Christian canon of the Old Testament, a term he coined. A passage cited by Eusebius contains Melito’s famous canon of the Old Testament. Melito presented elaborate parallels between the Old Testament or Old Covenant, which he likened to the form or mold, and the New Testament or New Covenant, which he likened to the truth that broke the mold, in a series of Eklogai,[clarification needed] six books of extracts from the Law and the Prophets presaging Christ and the Christian faith. His opinion of the Old Covenant was that it was fulfilled by Christians, whereas the Jewish people failed to fulfill it. The New Covenant is the truth found through Jesus Christ. … ”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melito_of_Sardis

 

More regarding his canon is in link below:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melito%27s_canon

 

4) Trinity Doctrine

 

St. Melito of Sardis Taught that LORD JESUS CHRIST as GOD and here’s quote from a Catholic Source too together with St. Irenaeous of Lyons and Tertullian as well (so the source quoted doesn’t matter as the “fact” remains the same):

 

“… MELITO, BISHOP of SARDIS (about 176), says: “Since the same (Christ) was at the SAME TIME GOD and PERFECT MAN, He made His two natures evident to us; His Divine nature by the miracles which He wrought during the three years after His baptism; His human nature by those thirtv years that He first lived, during which the lowliness of the Flesh covered over and hid away all signs of the Divinity, though He WAS AT ONE AND THE SAME TIME TRUE AND EVERLASTING GOD” (Frag. vii in P. G., V, 1221). St. Irenaeus, toward the close of the second century, argues: “If one person suffered and another Person remained incapable of suffering; if one person was born and another Person came down upon him that was born and thereafter left him, not one person but two are proven . . . whereas the Apostle knew one only Who was born and Who suffered” (“Adv. Haer.”, III, xvi, n, 9, in P. G., VII, 928). Tertullian bears firm witness: “Was not God really crucified? Did He not realiy die as He really was crucified?” (“De Carne Christi”, c. v, in P. L., II, 760). …”

 

Source: https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/the-incarnation-13714

 

 

 

That same quote can be found say in “Protestant Source” below together with this “extra” quote too PROVING LORD JESUS CHRIST as GOD EQUAL with the FATHER too:

 

“… IV. On Faith.  We have collected together extracts from the Law and the Prophets relating to those things which have Been declared concerning our Lord Jesus Christ, that we may prove to your love that this Being is perfect reason, the Word of God; He who was begotten before the light; He who is Creator together with the Father; He who is the Fashioner of man; He who is all in all; He who among the patriarchs is Patriarch; He who in the law is the Law; among the priests, Chief Priest; among kings, the Ruler; among prophets, the Prophet; among the angels, Archangel; in the voice of the preacher, THE WORD; among spirits, THE SPIRIT; IN THE FATHER, THE SON; IN GOD, GOD; King for ever and ever. For this is He who was pilot to Noah; He who was guide to Abraham; He who was bound with Isaac; He who was in exile with Jacob; He who was sold with Joseph; He who was captain of the host with Moses; He who was the divider of the inheritance with Jesus the son of Nun; He who in David and the prophets announced His own sufferings; He who put on a bodily form in the Virgin; He who was born in Bethlehem; He who was wrapped in swaddling-clothes in the manger; He who was seen by the shepherds; He who was glorified by the angels; He who was worshipped by the Magi; He who was pointed out by John; He who gathered together the apostles; He who preached the kingdom; He who cured the lame; He who gave light to the blind; He who raised the dead; He who appeared in the temple; He who was not believed on by the people; He who was betrayed by Judas; He who was apprehended by the priests; He who was condemned by Pilate; He who was pierced in the flesh; He who was hanged on the tree; He who was buried in the earth; He who rose from the place of the dead; He who appeared to the apostles; He who was carried up to heaven; He who is seated at the right hand of the Father; He who is the repose of those that are departed; the recoverer of those that are lost; the light of those that are in darkness; the deliverer of those that are captive; the guide of those that go astray; the asylum of the afflicted; the bridegroom of the Church; the charioteer of the cherubim; the captain of the angels; GOD WHO IS FROM GOD; the Son who is from the Father; JESUS CHRIST the King for evermore. Amen. … V. … He that fixed the heavens was fixed with nails; He that bore up the earth was borne up on a tree; the LORD OF ALL was subjected to ignominy in a NAKED BODY-GOD PUT TO DEATH! the KING OF ISRAEL slain with Israel’s right hand! Alas for the new wickedness of the new murder! The Lord was exposed with naked body: He was not deemed worthy even of covering; and, in order that He might not be seen, the luminaries turned away, and the day became darkened because THEY SLEW GOD, WHO HUNG NAKED ON THE TREE …” –  Blessed St. Melito, Jewish Bishop of Sardis, of whom Polycrates of Ephesus to Pope Victor about 194 (Eusebius, Church History V.24) states that “Melito the eunuch [this is interpreted “the virgin” by Rufinus in his translation of Eusebius], whose whole walk was in the Holy Spirit”, was buried at Sardis and Jerome, speaking of the Old Testament canon established by Melito, quotes Tertullian to the effect that he was esteemed as a prophet by many of the faithful (Died c. 180 AD)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/melito.html

The problem with us protestants is this: We agree with the “Trinity” supporting quote above but how about the “free choice” quote, “non-Elect Salvation” quote and “Chiliasm Doctrine” quote by this same St. Melito of Sardis too (which we quote next), do we believe it at least as a “possibility”?

 

5) Free Choice Doctrine

 

St. Melito of Sardis BELIEVED in FREE CHOICE DOCTRINE of some type (as I have quoted him with other Great Church Fathers likewise in Page 945 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ):

 

“… 27 and give thanks to God who made thee, and gave thee the MIND OF THE FREE, that thou mightest shape thy conduct even as thou wilt. He hath set before thee all these things, and showeth thee that, if thou follow after evil, thou shall be condemned for thy evil deeds; but that, if after goodness, thou shall receive from Him abundant good,28 together with immortal life for ever. “There is, therefore, NOTHING TO HINDER THEE FROM CHANGING THY EVIL MANNER OF LIFE, BECAUSE THOU ART A FREE MAN; or from SEEKING AND FINDING OUT WHO IS THE LORD OF ALL ; or from serving Him with all thy heart: because with Him there is no reluctance to give the knowledge of Himself to those that seek it, according to the measure of their capacity to know Him. “Let it be thy first care not to deceive thyself. For, if thou sayest of that which is not God: This is God, thou deceivest thyself, and sinnest before the God of truth. Thou fool I is that God which is bought and sold? Is that God which is in want? Is that God which must be watched over? How buyest thou him as a slave, and servest him as a master? How askest thou of him, as of one that is rich, to give to thee, and thyself givest to him as to one that is poor? How dost thou expect of him that he will make thee victorious in battle? for, lo! when thy enemies have conquered thee, they strip him likewise. …” –  Blessed St. Melito, Jewish Bishop of Sardis, of whom Polycrates of Ephesus to Pope Victor about 194 (Eusebius, Church History V.24) states that “Melito the eunuch [this is interpreted “the virgin” by Rufinus in his translation of Eusebius], whose whole walk was in the Holy Spirit”, was buried at Sardis and Jerome, speaking of the Old Testament canon established by Melito, quotes Tertullian to the effect that he was esteemed as a prophet by many of the faithful (Died c. 180 AD)

Source: https://www.tertullian.org/fathers2/ANF-08/anf08-164.htm

 

Or this too (I show multiple sources sometimes to demonstrate that they all have his quotes translated):

https://classicalchristianity.com/category/bysaint/st-melito-of-sardis-died-ca-180/

 

This is all that survives from St. Melito of Sardis’ Fragments regarding the Most Blessed Holy Spirit of God, as he writes as follows:

 

“… IX.94 … The TONGUE of the LORD-His HOLY SPIRIT. In the Psalm: “My tongue is a pen.”101 … The FINGER OF THE LORD-the HOLY SPIRIT, by whose operation the tables of the law in Exodus are said to have been written;111 and in the Gospel: “If I by the finger of God cast out demons”112 The fingers of the Lord-The lawgiver Moses, or the prophets. In the Psalm: “I will regard the heavens,” that is, the books of the Law and the Prophets, “the works of Thy fingers.”113 …” –  Blessed St. Melito, Jewish Bishop of Sardis, of whom Polycrates of Ephesus to Pope Victor about 194 (Eusebius, Church History V.24) states that “Melito the eunuch [this is interpreted “the virgin” by Rufinus in his translation of Eusebius], whose whole walk was in the Holy Spirit”, was buried at Sardis and Jerome, speaking of the Old Testament canon established by Melito, quotes Tertullian to the effect that he was esteemed as a prophet by many of the faithful (Died c. 180 AD)

 

Source: https://www.tertullian.org/fathers2/ANF-08/anf08-164.htm

 

Comment: St. Melito of Sardis clearly calls the HOLY SPIRIT as different from CHRIST or the FATHER in his own phrases here as “…. The TONGUE of the LORD-His HOLY SPIRIT.  …” and “… The FINGER OF THE LORD-the HOLY SPIRIT, by whose operation the tables of the law in Exodus are said to have been written;111 and in the Gospel: “If I by the finger of God cast out demons” …” meaning the HOLY SPIRIT’S POWER DOES THESE THINGS and “of the LORD” means HE IS GOD too and is UNITED with the SON and FATHER hence the TRINITY concept can be inferred (although indirectly).

 

6) Chiliasm Doctrine

 

St. Melito of Sardis BELIEVED  in CHILIASM DOCTRINE following after St. Irenaeous of Lyons too in this at that timeline (yes, the ‘same St. Irenaeous of Lyons’ I quote often)

 

“… Death and legacy . In regard to the death of Melito, there is not much information preserved or recorded. Polycrates of Ephesus, in a letter addressed to Pope Victor (AD. 196) preserved in Eusebius’ history, says, “What shall I say of Melito, whose actions’ were all guided by the operations of the Holy Spirit? Who was interred at Sardis, where he waits the resurrection and the judgement?”. From this it may be deduced that he had died some time previous to the date of this letter at Sardis, which is the place of his interment. Melito’s reputation as a writer remained strong into the Middle Ages: numerous works were pseudepigraphically ascribed to him. Melito was especially skilled in the literature of the Old Testament, and was one of the most prolific authors of his time. Eusebius furnished a list of Melito’s works. While many of these works are lost, the testimony of the fathers remains to inform us how highly they were viewed. Eusebius presents some fragments of Melito’s works and some others are found in the works of different writers. Fragments’ of his works found preserved in a Syriac translation are now stored in the library of the British Museum. Cureton has translated some and others have been published in Kitto’s Journal of Sacred Literature, vol 15. Due to Melito’s reputation, many works are falsely attributed to him due to the lack of recorded literature surrounding him. MELITO WAS A CHILIAST, and believed in a Millennial reign of Christ on Earth, and FOLLOWED IRENAEUS* IN HIS VIEWS. Jerome (Comm. on Ezek. 36 ) and Gennadius (De Dogm. Eccl., Ch. 52) both affirm that he was a decided millenarian and as such believed that Christ would reign for 1000 years before the coming of the final judgement. …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melito_of_Sardis

 

Did you notice this part from the above?

 

“… MELITO WAS A CHILIAST, and believed in a Millennial reign of Christ on Earth, and FOLLOWED IRENAEUS* IN HIS VIEWS. …”

 

It’s referring to the same “– Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD) who I quote so extensively in the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook  too”.

 

Or

 

“… Millennialism was taught by various earlier writers such as Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Commodian, Lactantius, Methodius, and Apollinaris of Laodicea in a form now called premillennialism.[9] According to religious scholar Rev. Dr. Francis Nigel Lee,[10] “Justin’s ‘Occasional Chiliasm’ sui generis which was strongly anti-pretribulationistic was followed possibly by Pothinus in A.D. 175 and more probably (around 185) by Irenaeus”. … MELITO OF SARDIS is frequently listed as a second century proponent of premillennialism.[12] The support usually given for the supposition is that “Jerome [Comm. on Ezek. 36] and Gennadius [De Dogm. Eccl., Ch. 52] both affirm that he was a decided millenarian.”[13] In the early third century, Hippolytus of Rome … Around 220, there were some similar influences on Tertullian, although only with very important and extremely optimistic (if not perhaps even postmillennial) modifications and implications. On the other hand, “Christian Chiliastic” ideas were indeed advocated in 240 by Commodian; in 250 by the Egyptian Bishop Nepos in his Refutation of Allegorists; in 260 by the almost unknown Coracion; and in 310 by Lactantius. Into the late fourth century, Bishop Ambrose of Milan had millennial leanings (Ambrose of Milan. Book II. On the Belief in the Resurrection, verse 108). Lactantius is the last great literary defender of chiliasm in the early Christian church. …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennialism

 

Here’s a quote by the Famous Protestant Historian Philip Schaff regarding St. Melito of Sardis’s CHILIASM DOCTRINE to his other writings and how he was viewed in First Christianity’s Orthodox:

 

“… 1276    The first extant notice of Melito, bishop of Sardis, is found in the letter addressed by Polycrates to Bishop Victor of Rome (c. 190–202 a.d.) in support of the Quartodeciman practice of the Asia Minor churches. A fragment of this letter is given by Eusebius in Bk. V. chap. 24, and from it we learn that Melito also favored the Quartodeciman practice, that he was a man whose walk and conversation were altogether under the influence of the Holy Spirit, and that he was buried at Sardis. Polycrates in this fragment calls Melito a eunuch. Whether the word is to be understood in its literal sense or is to be taken as meaning simply that Melito lived in “virgin continence” is disputed. In favor of the latter interpretation may be urged the fact that the Greek word and its Latin equivalent were very commonly used by the Fathers in this figurative sense, e.g. by Athenagoras, by Tertullian, by Clement of Alexandria, by Cassianus (whose work on continence bore the title περὶ ἐγκρατείας, ἢ περὶ εὐνουχίας), by Jerome, Epiphanius, Chrysostom, Theodoret, Gregory Nazianzen, &c. (see Smith and Wace’s Dict. of Christ. Biog., article Melito, and Suicer’s Thesaurus). On the other hand, such continence cannot have been a rare thing in Asia Minor in the time of Polycrates, and the fact that Melito is called specifically “the eunuch” looks peculiar if nothing more than that is meant by it. The case of Origen, who made himself a eunuch for the sake of preserving his chastity, at once occurs to us in this connection (see Renan, L’eglise chret. p. 436, and compare Justin Martyr’s Apol. I. 29).

 

The canonical rule that no such eunuch could hold clerical office came later, and hence the fact that Melito was a bishop cannot be urged against the literal interpretation of the word here. Polycrates’ meaning hardly admits of an absolute decision, but at least it cannot be looked upon as it is by most historians as certain that he uses the word here in its figurative sense. nothing of the fact that Melito was a writer, but we learn from this chapter (§4), and from Bk. VI. chap. 13, that Clement of Alexandria, in a lost work, mentioned his writings and even wrote a work in reply to one of his (see below, note 23). According to the present chapter he was a very prolific writer, and that he was a man of marked talent is clear from Jerome’s words in his de vir. ill. chap. 24 (where he refers to Tertullian’s lost work, de Ecstasi): Hujus [i.e. Melitonis] elegans et declamatorium ingenium Tertullianus in septem libris, quos scripsit adversus ecclesiam pro Montano, cavillatur, dicens eum a plerisque nostrorum prophetam putari. In spite of the fact that Tertullian satirized Melito’s talent, he nevertheless was greatly influenced by his writings and owed much to them (see the points of contact between the two men given by Harnack, p. 250 sqq.).

 

The statement that he was regarded by many as a prophet accords well with Polycrates’ description of him referred to above. The indications all point to the fact that Melito was decidedly ascetic in his tendencies, and that he had a great deal in common with the spirit which gave rise to Montanism and even made Tertullian a Montanist, and yet at the same time he opposed Montanism, and is therefore spoken of slightingly by Tertullian. His position, so similar to that of the Montanists, was not in favor with the orthodox theologians of the third century, and this helps to explain why, although he was such a prolific and talented writer, and although he remained orthodox, he nevertheless passed almost entirely out of the memory of the Church of the third and following centuries. To this is to be added the fact that Melito was a chiliast; and the teachings of the Montanists brought such disrepute upon chiliasm that the Fathers of the third and following centuries did not show much fondness for those who held or had held these views. Very few notices of Melito’s works are found among the Fathers, and none of those works is to-day extant. Eusebius is the first to give us an idea of the number and variety of his writings, and he does little more than mention the titles, a fact to be explained only by his lack of sympathy with Melito’s views.

 

The time at which Melito lived is indicated with sufficient exactness by the fact that he wrote his Apology during the reign of Marcus Aurelius, but after the death of his brother Lucius, i.e. after 169 (see below, note 21); and that when Polycrates wrote his epistle to Victor of Rome, he had been dead already some years. It is possible (as held by Piper, Otto, and others) that his Apology was his last work, for Eusebius mentions it last in his list. At the same time, it is quite as possible that Eusebius enumerates Melito’s works simply in the order in which he found them arranged in the library of Cæsarea, where he had perhaps seen them. Of the dates of his episcopacy, and of his predecessors and successors in the see of Sardis, we know nothing.

 

In addition to the works mentioned in this chapter by Eusebius, who does not pretend to give a full list, we find in Anastasius Sinaita’s Hodegos seu dux viæ c. aceph. fragments from two other works entitled εἰς τὸ π€θος and περὶ σαρκώσεως χριστοῦ (the latter directed against Marcion), which cannot be identified with any mentioned by Eusebius (see Harnack, I. 1, p. 254). The Codex Nitriacus Musei Britannici 12,156 contains four fragments ascribed to Melito, of which the first belongs undoubtedly to his genuine work περὶ ψυχῆς καὶ σώματος, which is mentioned in this chapter by Eusebius. The second purports to be taken from a work, περὶ σταυροῦ, of which we hear nowhere else, and which may or may not have been by Melito. The third fragment bears the title Melitonis episcopi de fide, and might be looked upon as an extract from the work περὶ πίστεως, mentioned by Eusebius (as Otto regards it); but the same fragment is four times ascribed to Irenæus by other early authorities, and an analysis of these authorities shows that the tradition in favor of Irenæus is stronger than that in favor of Melito, and so Harnack mentions a work, περὶ πίστεως, which is ascribed by Maximus Confessor to Irenæus, and from which the quotation may have been taken (see Harnack, ibid. p. 266 ff.). The fourth fragment was taken in all probability from Melito’s work, περὶ π€θους, mentioned by Anastasius. An Apology in Syriac, bearing the name of Melito, is extant in another of the Nitrian mss. in the British Museum (No. 14,658), and has been published with an English translation by Cureton, in his Spic. Syr. (p. 41–51). It has been proved, however, that this Apology (which we have entire) was not written by Melito, but probably by an inhabitant of Syria, in the latter part of the second, or early part of the third century,—whether originally in the Greek or Syriac language is uncertain (see Harnack, p. 261 ff., and Smith and Wace, Vol. III. p. 895). In addition to the genuine writings, there must be mentioned also some spurious works which are still extant. Two Latin works of the early Middle Ages, entitled de transitu Mariæ and de passione S. Joannis Evangelistæ, and also a Catena of the latter Middle Ages on the Apocalypse, and a Clavis Scripturæ of the Carlovingian period (see below, note 18), bear in some mss. the name of Melito. This fact shows that Melito’s name was not entirely forgotten in the Occidental Church of the Middle Ages, though little exact knowledge of him seems to have existed.

 

On Melito and his writings, see Piper’s article in the Theol. Studien und Kritiken, 1838, p. 54–154; Salmon’s article in Smith and Wace, and especially Harnack’s Texte und Unters. I. 1, p. 240–278. The extant fragments of Melito’s writings are given in Routh’s Rel. Sac. I. 111–153, and in Otto’s Corp. Apol. IX. 374–478, and an English translation in the Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. VIII. p. 750–762.

1277    On Apolinarius and his writings, see chap. 27.

1278    Marcus Aurelius.

1279    The following list of Melito’s works is at many points very uncertain, owing to the various readings of the mss. and versions. We have as authorities for the text, the Greek mss. of Eusebius, the History of Nicephorus, the translation of Rufinus, chap. 24 of Jerome’s de vir. ill., and the Syriac version of this passage of Eusebius’ History, which has been printed by Cureton, in his Spic. Syr. p. 56 ff.

 

1280    The quotation from this work given by Eusebius in §7, perhaps enables us to fix approximately the date at which it was written. Rufinus reads Sergius Paulus, instead of Servilius Paulus, which is found in all the Greek mss. Sergius Paulus is known to have had his second consulship in 168, and it is inferred by Waddington that he was proconsul about 164 to 166 (see Fastes des provinces Asiatiques, chap. 2, §148). No Servilius Paulus is known in connection with the province of Asia, and hence it seems probable that Rufinus is correct; and if so, the work on the Passover was written early in the sixties. The fragment which Eusebius gives in this chapter is the only part of his work that is extant. It was undoubtedly in favor of the Quartodeciman practice, for Polycrates, who was a decided Quartodeciman, cites Melito in support of his position. …”

 

Source: https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf201.iii.ix.xxvi.html

 

or this too because many of St. Melito’s writings have been “lost” but as you have seen that even St. Jerome or others who do “not” believe in CHILIASM but yet HAVE PRESERVED his writing to believe that in their time too which today may be lost for the most part:

 

“… Melito Of Sardis (D. Ca. 190) As bishop of Sardis, he wrote prolifically, including a discourse On the Pasch (related to Easter, resurrection, and Passover of Christ) around 160. Perhaps he wrote this against the pseudo-prophecy of the Montanists, though Tertullian spoke highly of him. He had enough literary acument to write an Apology addressed to Emperor Marcus Aurelius, “written probably at the outbreak of the violent persecutions in 177, which, however, were of a local or provincial character, and not sanctioned by the general government…. He [also] wrote a commentary on the Apocalypse.”23 Thus some commentary on the millennial kingdom could be expected. About On the Pasch Daley writes, “This richly typological meditation on the paschal mystery focuses its attention almost exclusively on the meaning of the death of Jesus for the present Christian community … and … shows no direct concern for the specifically eschatological dimension of Christian faith.”24 Yet, Walvoord cites Peters as placing Melito in the premillennial JMAT 16:2 (Fall 2012) p. 97 camp as affirmed by Jerome and Genadius.25 Crutchfield, who provides the wanting references from Jerome (Commentary on Ezekiel) and Genadius (De Dogm. Eccl., Ch. 52), suggest that “such testimony, especially when given by one like Jerome who was not friend of the millenarians cannot be minimized.”26 And what is that testimony of Jerome? As the source remains unavailable to this researcher, it must stand on Crutchfield’s and Peters’s endorsement from Jerome and Gandius that Melito held to some kind of chiliasm. …”

 

Source: https://www.galaxie.com//article/jmat16-2-04

7) Non Elect Salvation or Universalism

 

St. Melito of Sardis BELIEVED  in CHRIST CENTERED UNIVERSALISM of SOME TYPE or SOME TYPE of NON-ELECT SALVATION from the SPIRIT WORLD but due to lack of his detail, it’s hard to determine the EXACT NATURE of his DOCTRINE on this (but he certainly believed in it).

 

The quote below seems to echo a stronger Universal Redemption by Christ in Hades (“Hell”) via St. Melito of Sardis (who was believed to be the direct successor of the Bishop of Sardis at the time the Book of Revelation was Written) and more importantly, this is the man used by God to Decide almost single handedly the “Old Testament Canon” used in any Bible Today! (so for him to err on this is also unlikely but possible), to quote:

 

“… The Lord, having put on human nature, and having suffered for him who suffered, having been bound for him who was bound, and having been buried for him who was buried, is risen from the dead, and loudly proclaims this message: Who will contend against me? Let him stand before me. It is I who delivered the condemned. It is I who gave life to the dead. It is I who raised up the buried. WHO WILL ARGUE WITH ME? It is I, SAYS CHRIST, WHO DESTROYED DEATH. It is I who triumphed over the enemy, and HAVING TROD DOWN HADES [“Hell now”], and bound the STRONG MAN [Satan Metaphorically as per Matthew 12:29 or Mark3:27*], and have SNATCHED MANKIND up to the HEIGHTS of HEAVEN. It is I, says Christ. So then, come here ALL you FAMILIES of MEN, weighed down by your sins and RECEIVE PARDON for YOUR MISDEEDS. For I am your pardon. I am the Passover which brings salvation. I am the Lamb slain for you. I am your lustral bath. I am your life. I am your resurrection. I am your light, I am your salvation, I am your King. It is I who brings you up to the heights of heaven. It is I who will give you the resurrection there. I will show you the Eternal Father. I will raise you up with my own right hand…” –  Blessed St. Melito, Jewish Bishop of Sardis, of whom Polycrates of Ephesus to Pope Victor about 194 (Eusebius, Church History V.24) states that “Melito the eunuch [this is interpreted “the virgin” by Rufinus in his translation of Eusebius], whose whole walk was in the Holy Spirit”, was buried at Sardis and Jerome, speaking of the Old Testament canon established by Melito, quotes Tertullian to the effect that he was esteemed as a prophet by many of the faithful (Died c. 180 AD, ‘Homily on Pascha’, Peri Pascha )

Source:  https://www.orthodox.net/pascha/pascha-melito.html

“… Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ   (Matthew 12:29, NKJV)

 

or

“… No one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ   (Mark 3:27, NKJV)

 

Note: This Text above regarding “non-Elect Salvation possibility from Hell by CHRIST” by St. Melito of Sardis is NOT found in the earlier sources but the ORTHODOX and CATHOLIC SCHOLARS themselves have endorsed it as belonging to “St. Melito” as it was a recent discovery only as per example details below:

 

“… Peri Pascha (English title On the Pascha) is a 2nd-century homily of Melito of Sardis written between A.D.160 and 170 in Asia Minor. It was discovered last century and first published in 1940.[1] It describes Christian doctrine on the Paschal mystery in the style of Second Sophistic period. It was originally conjectured to have probably been recited with the kind of cantillation customary in scripture reading.[2] Its first editor, Campbell Bonner, entitled it mistakenly On the Passion.[3][4] It was corrected to On the Pascha, thanks to the title found in the Papyrus Bodmer XIII, one of the Bodmer Papyri.[5][6] …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peri_Pascha

 

We know that St. Melito of Sardis BELIEVED in the SIBYLS PROPHECIES, in “his own words” as follows:

 

“…[ I. A Discourse Which Was in the Presence of Antoninus Caesar, and He Exhorted The Said Caesar to Acquaint Himself with God, and Showed to Him the Way of Truth. – ‘Title added by scholars in brackets here’]  … “But I HAVE TO REMARK FURTHER, THAT THE SIBYL ALSO HAS SAID CONCERNING THEM that it is the images of deceased kings that they worship. And this is easy to understand: for, lo! even now they worship and honour the images of those of Caesarean rank more than their former gods; for from those their former gods both pecuniary tribute and produce accrue to Caesar, as to one who is greater than they. On this account, those who despise them, and so cause Caesar’s revenue to fall short, are put to death. But to the treasury of other kings also it is appointed how much the worshippers in various places shall pay, and how many vesselfuls of water from the sea they shall supply. Such is the wickedness of the world-of those who worship and fear that which has no sensation. Many of them, too, who are crafty, either for the sake of gain, or for vainglory, or for dominion over the multitude, both themselves worship, and incite those who are destitute of understanding to worship, that which has no sensation. …”–  Blessed St. Melito, Jewish Bishop of Sardis, of whom Polycrates of Ephesus to Pope Victor about 194 (Eusebius, Church History V.24) states that “Melito the eunuch [this is interpreted “the virgin” by Rufinus in his translation of Eusebius], whose whole walk was in the Holy Spirit”, was buried at Sardis and Jerome, speaking of the Old Testament canon established by Melito, quotes Tertullian to the effect that he was esteemed as a prophet by many of the faithful (Died c. 180 AD)

Protestant Source:  http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/melito.html

 

This ‘same quote’ can also be found in the Roman Catholic Source too here:

 

https://www.tertullian.org/fathers2/ANF-08/anf08-164.htm

 

Why is this important?

 

We know that St. Melito of Sardis also BELIEVED in the SIBYLS as per his quote above which can be found in any of the sources above where the “Christian Sibyline Oracles” (referring to this class of Writings) has also that “NON ELECT SALVATION on the ELYSIAN FIELDS/the “other” ETERNAL LIFE” after being saved from that FINAL LAKE of FIRE (GEHENNA) via the PRAYERS of CHRISTIANS (the “IMMORTALS“) as described vividly below:

 

“… And to the pious will the almighty God

405 Imperishable grant another thing,

When they shall ask the imperishable God:

That he will suffer men from raging fire

And endless gnawing anguish to be saved;

And this will he do. For hereafter he

410 Will pluck them from the restless flame, elsewhere. Remove them, and for his own people’s sakeSend them to other and eternal life With the immortals, in Elysian field, …”

 

Translation Source: https://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/sib/sib04.htm

 

 

 

I repeat with Emphasis:

“… for a long day will God make. And to the pious [CHRISTIANS] will the Almighty God 405 Imperishable grant another thing, When they [CHRISTIANS] shall ask the imperishable God: That He [God] will suffer [SAVE] men from RAGING FIRE And ENDLESS GNAWING ANGUISH to be SAVED; And THIS WILL HE [God] DO. For hereafter He [God] 410 Will PLUCK THEM [Wicked] from the RESTLESS FLAME, elsewhere REMOVE THEM [Wicked, from the ‘Lake of Fire’], and for His own people’s sake [His Bride] Send them to OTHER [Outside Regions of the Kingdom of the Heaven] and ETERNAL LIFE WITH THE IMMORTALS [CHRISTIANS], in Elysian field, …” (Sibyline Oracles, Book II, 297-322, p. 51)

 

Note: How about the Christian Jewish Sibyline Oracles?

 

  1. St. Justin Martyr

 

St. Justin Martyr Commanded to not only read it but preach it even though only a ‘few’ may be persuaded by it he says:

 

To quote:

 

“… [ CHAPTER XX — HEATHEN ANALOGIES TO CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE.] … AND THE SIBYL and Hystaspes SAID THAT THERE SHOULD BE A DISSOLUTION BY GOD OF ALL THINGS CORRUPTIBLE. And the philosophers called Stoics teach that even God Himself shall be resolved into fire, and they say that the world is to be formed anew by this revolution; but we understand that God, the Creator of all things, is superior to the things that are to be changed. If, therefore, on some points we teach the same things as the poets and philosophers whom you honour, and on other points are fuller and more divine in our teaching, and if we alone afford proof of what we assert, why are we unjustly hated more than all others? For while we say that all things have been produced and arranged into a world by God, we shall seem to utter the doctrine of Plato; and while we say that there will be a burning up of all, we shall seem to utter the doctrine of the Stoics: and while we affirm that the souls of the wicked, being endowed with sensation even after death, are punished, and that those of the good being delivered from punishment spend a blessed existence, we shall seem to say the same things as the poets and philosophers; and while we maintain that men ought not to worship the works of their hands, we say the very things which have been said by the comic poet Menander, and other similar writers, for they have declared that the workman is greater than the work. …  [CHAPTER XLIV — NOT NULLIFIED BY PROPHECY.] … But by the AGENCY of THE DEVILS DEATH has been decreed against THOSE WHO READ the BOOKS of Hystaspes, or OF THE SIBYL, or of the prophets, that through fear they may prevent men who read them from receiving the knowledge of the good, and may retain them in slavery to themselves; which, however, they could not always effect. For not only do we fearlessly read them, but, as you see, bring them for your inspection, knowing that their contents will be pleasing to all. And IF WE PERSUADE EVEN A FEW, OUR GAIN WILL BE VERY GREAT; for, as good husbandmen, we shall RECEIVE TH E REWARD FROM THE MASTER . …” –  Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (First Apology)

 

Translation Source:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html

 

Note: the “SYBIL” St. Justin Martyr refers to in the quote above refers to this class of SIBYLINE ORACLES Books and he is quoting them also like St. Melito is the “PROPHECYCONTEXT as that’s what the SIBYLS’ Writings describe, namely “PROPHECY“.

 

  1. St. Clement of Alexandria

 

St. Clement of Alexandria Reveals that Apostle Paul himself commanded a Christian to read the SIBYL too ‘in a verbal tradition*’ in the CONTEXT of FUTURE PROPHECIES too (and hence the SIBYLINE ORACLES Salvation from the Lake of Fire Prophecy [quoted later] is a NON-ELECT Salvation DOCTRINAL POSSIBILITY)

 

To quote:

 

“… Take also the Hellenic books, READ THE SIBYL, how it is shown that God is one, and HOW THE FUTURE IS INDICATED. And taking Hystaspes, read, and you will find much more luminously and distinctly the Son of God described, and how many kings shall draw up their forces against Christ, hating Him and those that bear His name, and His faithful ones, and His patience, and His coming. …” – Apostle St. Paul’s Verbal Command (as reiterated by – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria, Head of the First Oldest Bible School in all of Christianity, the Cathecathical School At Alexandria, Teacher of Origen  (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD), Stromata, VI.5; 43, 1 (p. 453, 3 Stählin), quotation of Paul the Apostle, but otherwise unknown)

Source: http://www.bombaxo.com/2007/10/24/the-oracle-of-hystaspes/

 

 

*Verbal Tradition is mentioned in Bible Verse below by Apostle St. Paul though no one can confirm nor deny St. Clement of Alexandria’s quote above regarding this and so it remains a “POSSIBILITY” only too:

 

 

 

“Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. ” (2 Thessalonians 2:15, KJV)

 

 

“So then, brethren, STAND FIRM and HOLD TO THE TRADITIONS which you were taught, whether by WORD of MOUTH or BY LETTER from us.” – Blessed Apostle St. Paul (2 Thessalonians 2:15, NASB)

 

 

 

iii. Lactantius

 

Lactantius, Epitome, 73:

 

“… Wherefore, since all these things are true and certain, in harmony with the predicted announcement of the prophets, since Trismegistus and Hystaspes and THE SIBYLS HAVE FORETOLD THE SAME THINGS, it cannot be doubted that all hope of life and SALVATION is placed in the religion of God alone. …” – Blessed Lactantius, Advisor to Emperor Constantine and Instructor to his Son, also sometimes called the Last Great Literary Defender of Chiliasm Doctrine in the Early Church (c. 250 – c. 325, Epitome 73)

Source: http://www.bombaxo.com/2007/10/24/the-oracle-of-hystaspes/

 

 

  1. Authority of Doctrine?

 

Example of a Common Objection

‘The oracles may have been accepted by various Christians does not make them authoritative. There were all sorts of heresies that many Christians believed – but that didn’t make them true. If the oracles were authoritative, God would have assured their inclusion in the canon of scripture. Otherwise, we’re all free to add any mixed bag of nonsense that happens to tickle our fancy: Mormon, JWs, New Age, you name it. Who is to say what you’ve embraced is any more authoritative than what anyone else has decided to mingle with scripture, or replace scripture with? Without an anchor for what is authoritative, anything goes.’

Reply

 

Sibyline oracles has more credence than following church leaders private interpretation and it was accepted in First Christianity (1st to 3rd century) before man made teachings interpreted the Lake of Fire Revelation 22:17 differently. It’s authoritative as even the eternal Hell commentator on it in the early century acknowledges that passage & denies its content by condemning Origen of Alexandria explicitly to teach it as you can read this ‘added commentary’ from the same link above as follows:

 

‘… 404-416.–This passage, which savors of a final restoration from future punishment, has been thought to be contrary to orthodox teaching; and we find appended to some manuscripts the following lines, headed, “Contradiction of the ‘To the pious will the Almighty,'” and professedly a disproof of the doctrine of Origen on this subject:

 

False manifestly; for the penal fire

Shall never cease from those who are condemned.

For also I might pray to have it thus,

Branded with greatest scars of trespasses,

Which need more kindness. But let Origen

Of his presumptuous babble be ashamed,

Saying there shall be end of punishments.   …’ – The Latter ETERNAL HELL believing Scribe’s Comments

 

Source: https://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/sib/sib04.htm

Comment: The Latter ETERNAL HELL believing Commentator/Scribe who preserves this writing APPROVES this PART OF THE SALVATION of the LAKE of FIRE part as an AUTHENTIC SIBYLINE PROPHECY for CHRISTIANS but JUST DENIES that interpretation. Can you see it? This comment is NOT found in all the manuscripts but some only as ‘… we find appended to some manuscripts the following lines  …’ in the above quote proving it as a commentary. He probably views it as Purgatory or something else. But reading that passage literally, doesn’t it seem to Point to a Literal Salvation from the Lake of Fire after the Prayers of the Righteous as per the other Writings quoted earlier?

 

So, in the own commentator as preserved by the eternal hell camp thereafter, clearly endorses both the Sibyline Oracle and that passage as authentic but just denies the plain meaning.

Later councils only endorsed things worthy to be in the Bible but that does not mean that they denied other Christian writings such as the Shepherd of Hermas and Sibyline oracles are never been denied by any church council and some early Christianity quotes (even presented here including ST. AUGUSTINE OF HIPPO even endorse it some way).

 

 

So though I present the case strongly, I am “not” sure 100% but being neutral is best as “JUDGE NOTHING BEFORE ITS TIME” (1 Corinthians 4:5) and I prefer the Safe Route Scripturally like this lest I say something against any POSSIBLE Scripture and end up committing the UNFORGIVABLE BLASPHEMY of the HOLY SPIRIT (Matthew 12:31 – 32) and WHATEVER GOD DECIDES ONE DAY, I ACCEPT IT.

  1. Other Early Authoritative Church Leaders

 

Which other authoritative Church Leaders from First Christianity endorsed the SIBYL (Sibyline Oracles) as a ‘Christian Prophecy’ regarding understanding the Book of Revelation too?

 

To quote:

 

“The SIBYLS themselves, and the so-called SIBYLINE ORACLES, were often referred to by other early Church fathers; Theophilus, Bishop of Antioch (ca. 180), Clement of Alexandria (ca. 200), Lactantius (ca. 305), and AUGUSTINE (ca. 400), all knew various versions of the pseudo-Sibylline collections, quoted them or referred to them in paraphrase, and were unreluctant to Christianize them.”

 

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibylline_Oracles

 

Note: Even every Protestant’s and Roman Catholic’s favourite saint Blessed St. AUGUSTINE OF HIPPO has quoted the SIBYLINE ORACLES in his writings and so we too can consider it as a “POSSIBILITY” likewise and “not” be unsaved.

 

 

 

Note: Just like say St. Augustine of Hippo (quoted on this aspect in Page 1703 to 1710) or even other “Church Fathers”, St. Melito of Sardis’ does NOT seem to see anything contradictory regarding the WORK of the CROSS in regards to SALVATION after SPIRIT WORLD JUDGMENT in HELL “as his own words” here demonstrate clearly which most of ‘modern Christianity opposes and claims as impossible following after CALVINISM’. Which is right? Let God Decide as I just present the evidence of “First Christianity” as scholars (even Protestant Scholars) have found here.

 

 

 

 

St. Augustine of Hippo (every Protestant and Roman Catholic’s Favourite Saint) Quote on the SIBYL of the “Sibyline Prophecies

 

 

Source:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Augustine-of-Hippo-the-quote-on-the-Sibyl-from-his-The-City-of-God_fig3_331641574

How did St. Augustine of Hippo quote the SIBYLS? Some SIBYLS seems to have “predicted” (PROPHESIED) the NAME OF CHRIST in some MYSTERIOUS WAY long before it happened  according to St. Augustine to the RIVERS of FIRE (Lake of Fire Context too) as detailed in images below:

 

 

 

 

Source for images here:

 

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=iRvGBQAAQBAJ&rdid=book-iRvGBQAAQBAJ&rdot=1&source=gbs_vpt_read&pcampaignid=books_booksearch_viewport

 

 

 

Just for COMPARISON here is the “same” St. Augustine of Hippo quoting the SIBYLS’ PROPHECY EXTENSIVELY for PROPHECIES regarding LORD JESUS CHRIST to the LAKE OF FIRE Context (but he ‘skips’ the “non-Elect Salvation possibility one” on Page 1730 and 1731 as we saw earlier but that could be “true” as well, right? So we keep it as a “possibility”) from a “purely Roman Catholic source too” (to demonstrate they too know of St. Augustine’s Writing here regarding this):

 

“… Chapter 23.— Of the Erythræan Sibyl, Who is Known to Have Sung Many Things About Christ More Plainly Than the Other Sibyls.

Some say the Erythræan sibyl prophesied at this time. Now Varro declares there were many sibyls, and not merely one. This sibyl of Erythræ certainly wrote some things concerning Christ which are quite manifest, and we first read them in the Latin tongue in verses of bad Latin, and unrhythmical, through the unskillfulness, as we afterwards learned, of some interpreter unknown to me. For Flaccianus, a very famous man, who was also a proconsul, a man of most ready eloquence and much learning, when we were speaking about Christ, produced a Greek manuscript, saying that it was the prophecies of the Erythræan sibyl, in which he pointed out a certain passage which had the initial letters of the lines so arranged that these words could be read in them: ᾿Ιησοῦς Χριστος Θεοῦ υιὸς σωτηρ, which means, Jesus Christ the Son of God, the Saviour. And these verses, of which the initial letters yield that meaning, contain what follows as translated by some one into Latin in good rhythm:

Ι            Judgment shall moisten the earth with the sweat of its standard,
Η   Ever enduring, behold the King shall come through the ages,
Σ    Sent to be here in the flesh, and Judge at the last of the world.
Ο   O God, the believing and faithless alike shall behold You
Υ   Uplifted with saints, when at last the ages are ended.
Σ    Seated before Him are souls in the flesh for His judgment.

Χ   Hid in thick vapors, the while desolate lies the earth.
Ρ            Rejected by men are the idols and long hidden treasures;
Ε    Earth is consumed by the fire, and it searches the ocean and heaven;
Ι     Issuing forth, it destroys the terrible portals of hell.
Σ    Saints in their body and soul freedom and light shall inherit;
Τ    Those who are guilty shall burn in fire and brimstone forever.
Ο   Occult actions revealing, each one shall publish his secrets;
Σ    Secrets of every man’s heart God shall reveal in the light.

Θ   Then shall be weeping and wailing, yea, and gnashing of teeth;
Ε            Eclipsed is the sun, and silenced the stars in their chorus.
Ο   Over and gone is the splendor of moonlight, melted the heaven,
Υ   Uplifted by Him are the valleys, and cast down the mountains.

Υ   Utterly gone among men are distinctions of lofty and lowly.
Ι     Into the plains rush the hills, the skies and oceans are mingled.
Ο   Oh, what an end of all things! earth broken in pieces shall perish;
Σ   .   .   .   .   Swelling together at once shall the waters and flames flow in rivers.

Σ            Sounding the archangel’s trumpet shall peal down from heaven,
Ω   Over the wicked who groan in their guilt and their manifold sorrows.
Τ            Trembling, the earth shall be opened, revealing chaos and hell.
Η   Every king before God shall stand in that day to be judged.
Ρ   Rivers of fire and brimstone shall fall from the heavens.

In these Latin verses the meaning of the Greek is correctly given, although not in the exact order of the lines as connected with the initial letters; for in three of them, the fifth, eighteenth, and nineteenth, where the Greek letter Υ occurs, Latin words could not be found beginning with the corresponding letter, and yielding a suitable meaning. So that, if we note down together the initial letters of all the lines in our Latin translation except those three in which we retain the letter Υ in the proper place, they will express in five Greek words this meaning, Jesus Christ the Son of God, the Saviour.  And the verses are twenty-seven, which is the cube of three. For three times three are nine; and nine itself, if tripled, so as to rise from the superficial square to the cube, comes to twenty-seven. But if you join the initial letters of these five Greek words, ᾿Ιησοῦς Χριστος Θεοῦ υἰὸς σωτήρ, which mean, Jesus Christ the Son of God, the Saviour, they will make the word ἰχδὺς, that is, fish, in which word Christ is mystically understood, because He was able to live, that is, to exist, without sin in the abyss of this mortality as in the depth of waters.

But this sibyl, whether she is the Erythræan, or, as some rather believe, the Cumæan, in her whole poem, of which this is a very small portion, not only has nothing that can relate to the worship of the false or feigned gods, but rather speaks against them and their worshippers in such a way that we might even think she ought to be reckoned among those who belong to the city of God. Lactantius also inserted in his work the prophecies about Christ of a certain sibyl, he does not say which. But I have thought fit to combine in a single extract, which may seem long, what he has set down in many short quotations. She says, Afterward He shall come into the injurious hands of the unbelieving, and they will give God buffets with profane hands, and with impure mouth will spit out envenomed spittle; but He will with simplicity yield His holy back to stripes. And He will hold His peace when struck with the fist, that no one may find out what word, or whence, He comes to speak to hell; and He shall be crowned with a crown of thorns. And they gave Him gall for meat, and vinegar for His thirst: they will spread this table of inhospitality. For you yourself, being foolish, have not understood your God, deluding the minds of mortals, but have both crowned Him with thorns and mingled for Him bitter gall. But the veil of the temple shall be rent; and at midday it shall be darker than night for three hours. And He shall die the death, taking sleep for three days; and then returning from hell, He first shall come to the light, the beginning of the resurrection being shown to the recalled. Lactantius made use of these sibylline testimonies, introducing them bit by bit in the course of his discussion as the things he intended to prove seemed to require, and we have set them down in one connected series, uninterrupted by comment, only taking care to mark them by capitals, if only the transcribers do not neglect to preserve them hereafter. Some writers, indeed, say that the Erythræan sibyl was not in the time of Romulus, but of the Trojan War. …” – Blessed St. Augustine of Hippo, Doctor of the Church, who influenced virtually all of subsequent Western philosophy and Catholic theology, as well as a significant amount of Protestant theology, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD, The City of God (Book XVIII), Augustine traces the parallel courses of the earthly and heavenly cities from the time of Abraham to the end of the world; and alludes to the oracles regarding Christ, both those uttered by the Sibyls, and those of the sacred prophets who wrote after the foundation of Rome, Hosea, Amos, Isaiah, Micah, and their successors. Translated by Marcus Dods. From Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series, Vol. 2. Edited by Philip Schaff. (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Publishing Co., 1887.) Revised and edited for New Advent by Kevin Knight.)

 

Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/120118.htm

 

 

Conclusion

 

If these Fragments are true as Scholars from all of Christianity support regarding St. Melito of Sardis, then our LEVEL of WORTHINESS INCREASES according to the ACCURACY of DOCTRINE and WORKS as CHRIST POINTS this PARTICULAR CHURCH’s FEW AT SARDIS which most likely must be represented by their BISHOP itself at that time or just as the next successor after the BOOK of REVELATION was sent to correct them which is seen here by St. MELITO of SARDIS’own words”. May God have MERCY on our ERRORS either way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Novation Sect – the Holiest Heretics and the first to be called Puritans

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/pfbid0dKypgpdF1dXKnA71w6QYhuxRTT5k9zEShuxnizEwd5Fo1k7KPAyvnMWhNXc4364Ll

 

1) Novation (their founder,(c. 200–258) ) had some deeply “unforgiving” theology toward those who sinned and had some weird version of Trinity, example quote:

 

“… Novatianism or Novationism[1] was an Early Christian sect devoted to the theologian Novatian (c. 200–258) that held a strict view that refused readmission to communion of lapsi (those baptized Christians who had denied their faith or performed the formalities of a ritual sacrifice to the pagan gods under the pressures of the persecution sanctioned by Emperor Decius in AD 250). The Church of Rome declared the Novatianists heretical following the letters of Saint Cyprian of Carthage[2] and Ambrose wrote against them.[3] Novatianism survived until the 8th century.[4]. Novatian theology was heavily influenced by Tertullian, and they made heavy use of his writings.[5][6] … Novatian should not be confused with one Novatus, a priest of Carthage, who advocated re-admitting the lapsi without an enforced penance.[8]  … Novatian in his writings defended the doctrine of the Trinity, argued that the Old Testament prohibitions on meats must be understood spiritually, condemned Christians who attend public games and praised chastity.[10] Novatian was heavily influenced by the works of Tertullian.[5] … Those who allied themselves with his doctrines were called Novatianists, but they called themselves καθαροι (“katharoi”) or “Purists” (not to be confused with the later Cathars)[17] to reflect their desire not to be identified with what they considered the lax practices of a corrupted and what was hitherto a universal Church. While Novatian had refused absolution to the “lapsi” (those who had renounced their Christianity under persecution but later wanted to return to the church), his followers extended the doctrine to include all “mortal sins” (idolatry, murder, and adultery, or fornication). Most of them forbade second marriage. They always had a successor of Novatian at Rome and were everywhere governed by bishops. … Some Novatians blended with the Montanists.[2] …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novatianism

 

 

 

2) Church Fathers unanimously Condemned Novation and his sect as “heretics” (some names below are the “same Great Church Fathers whom I quote in my books too”):

 

“… The Novationist sect … The followers of Novatian named themselves katharoi, or PURITANS, and affected to call the Catholic Church Apostaticum, Synedrium, or Capitolinum. They were found in every province, and in some places were very numerous. Our chief information about them is from the “History” of Socrates, who is very favourable to them, and tells us much about their bishops, especially those of Constantinople. The chief works WRITTEN AGAINST THEM are those of St. Cyprian, the anonymous “Ad Novatianum” (attributed by Harnack to Sixtus II, 257-8), writings of St. Pacian of Barcelona and St. Ambrose (De paenitentia), “Contra Novatianum”, a work of the fourth century among the works of St. Augustine, the “Heresies” of Epiphanius and Philastrius, and the “Quaestiones” of Ambrosiaster. In the East they are mentioned especially by Athanasius, Basil, Gregory of Nazianzus, Chrysostom. Eulogius of Alexandria, not long before 600, wrote six books against them. Refutations by Reticius of Autun and Eusebius of Emesa are lost. …”

 

Source: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11138a.htm

 

3) Example of the Best Refutation in my opinion is by this Church Father who points clearly that though the “Novations (puritans)” are “holy outwardly” but they all had one problem namely, THEY NEVER CONDEMN the PROSPERITY SIN which is ACTUALLY DIRTIER

than ANY MURDER, SEXUAL IMMORALITY or STEALING even,  because it is SECOND IDOLATRY which BREAKS the 2nd of the 10 Commandment while “MURDER” breaks the 6th Commandment,ADULTERY”  breaks the 7th Commandment, “STEALING” breaks the 8th COMMANDMENT while FORNICATION with a PROSTITUE (which is different from ADULTERY and is NOT even a 10 Commandment but one of the 603 OTHER BY LAWS as both Deuteronomy 23:17  and Leviticus 19:29  DIFFERENTIATES this clearly) where I amNOT” DEFENDING SINS but pointing how DIRTY the PROSPERITY SIN really is which sometimes is called “blessings” as a “cover up” as CHRIST WARNED AGAINST it too with ALMSGIVING as ITS CURE in Luke 11:39 – 45 likewise* where if we are honest Christians we should CONDEMN THESE SINS IN THE ORDER GIVEN IN SCRIPTURE – Can you “SEE” it please “as it is WRITTEN“?):

[To quote from Page 1445 and 1446 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

“… XIX. But these sins were not after Baptism, you will say. Where is your proof? Either prove it — or refrain from condemning; and if there be any doubt, LET CHARITY [Love] PREVAIL. But NOVATUS, you say, WOULD NOT RECEIVE THOSE WHO LAPSED IN THE PERSECUTION. What do you mean by this? If they were unrepentant he was right; I too would refuse to receive those who either would not stoop at all or not sufficiently, and who would refuse to make their amendment counterbalance their sin; and when I do receive them, I will assign them their proper place; but if he refused those who wore themselves away with weeping, I will not imitate him. And WHY SHOULD NOVATUS’S WANT OF CHARITY BE A RULE FOR ME? HE NEVER PUNISHED COVETOUSNESS, WHICH IS SECOND IDOLATRY; BUT HE CONDEMNED FORNICATION AS THOUGH HE HIMSELF WERE NOT FLESH AND BODY. What say you? Are we convincing you by these words? Come and stand here on our side, that is, on the side of humanity. Let us magnify the Lord together. Let none of you, even though he has much confidence in himself, dare to say, Touch me not for I am pure, and who is so pure as I? Give us too a share in your brightness. But perhaps we are not convincing you? Then we will weep for you. Let THESE MEN then IF THEY WILL, FOLLOW OUR WAY, WHICH IS CHRIST’S WAY; but IF THEY WILL NOT, LET THEM GO THEIR OWN. PERHAPS IN IT THEY WILL BE BAPTIZED WITH FIRE, IN THAT LAST BAPTISM WHICH IS MORE POWERFUL AND LONGER, which devours wood like grass, 1 Corinthians 3:12-19 and CONSUMES the STUBBLE OF EVERY EVIL. …” – Blessed St. Gregory Nazianzus, also known as Gregory the Theologian or Gregory Nazianzen, Archbishop of Constantinople, Theologian, Doctor of the Church, Great Hierarch, Cappadocian Father, Ecumenical Teacher, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (c. 329 AD – c. 390 AD)

 

Source [ Oration 39, Chapter XIX, Oration on the Holy Lights. The Oration on the Holy Lights was preached on the Festival of the Epiphany 381, and was followed the next day by that on Baptism.]:  http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/310239.htm

 

Comments:

 

  1. Some may say that St. Gregory Nazianzus’ quote above refers to those “HERETICS” Burned Forever in the LAKE OF FIRE but I DO NOT think so because even those who quote that agree that he is quoting 1 Corinthians 3:12 – 19’s Context and so it includes Verses 13 to 15 too which REVEALS the SAVED by FIRE CASE. Can you see it?

 

  1. I mean since St. Gregory Nazianzus’ quote above seems to refer to those “HERETICSBurned in the LAKE OF FIRE CONTEXT based on him quoting 1 Corinthians 3:12 – 19 as the “Last Baptism of Fire“, then Verses 13 to 15 here likewise applies to these SAME HERETICS to be SAVED BY FIRE as per the Original Verses mean this, highlight for that part:

 

“… 15If anyone’s WORK IS BURNED, HE WILL SUFFER LOSS; but HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, YET SO AS THROUGH FIRE. …” (1 Corinthians 3:15, NKJV)

Personally I believe that if such an interpretation is true, these “SAVED BY FIRE” case must be a “NON – ELECT SALVATION TYPE” for FALLEN CHRISTIANS because CHRIST’S BRIDE (the CHURCH) CANNOT be TOUCHED/HARMED by the LAKE OF FIRE (or “Second DeathRevelation 20:14) in any way as REVELATION 20:4 – 6 already Reveals. Verse:

 

“…  6BLESSED  and HOLY is he who has part in the FIRST RESURRECTION. OVER SUCH THE SECOND DEATH HAS NO POWER, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall REIGH WITH HIM A THOUSAND YEARS. … Then DEATH and HADES were cast into the LAKE OF FIRE. This is the SECOND DEATH. 15And anyone NOT FOUND WRITTEN in the BOOK OF LIFE was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE ….” (Revelation 20:6, 14 – 15, NKJV)

 

Please notice that the BIBLE (not me) called THOSE CHRISTIANS WHO ARE HIS BRIDE (CHURCH) Participating in the “FIRST RESURRECTION” as BOTH “BLESSED” andHOLY” and are NEVER HARMED or CAST INTO the LAKE OF FIRE. However, in 1 Corinthians 3:15 seem to POINT TO FALLEN CHRISTIANS as “HARMED” by the “LAKE OF FIRE” in some way and so that’s why I think the NON ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY is LIKELY. The CONTEXT for the “FIRE” referred to in  1 CORINTHAINS 3:15  above to refer to the LAKE OF FIRE CONTEXT (which is NOT Revealed till JUDGMENT DAY or the FIRST RESURRECTION may be SEEN in these SAME VERSES  as follows):

 

“… 13each ONE’S WORK will become clear; FOR THE DAY WILL DECLARE IT, BECAUSE IT WILL BE REVEALED BY FIRE; and THE FIRE WILL TEST EACH ONE’S WORK, of what sort it is. 14If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, HE WILL RECEIVE A REWARD. 15If anyone’s WORK IS BURNED, HE WILL SUFFER LOSS; but HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, YET SO AS THROUGH FIRE.” .  …” (1 Corinthians 3:13 – 15, NKJV)

 

Based on Verse 1 Corinthians 3:13 that this FIRE is to be REVEALED on THAT DAY only (meaning it cannot exist now which contradicts the “purgatory” position which implies the purgatorial-fire to exist only before Judgment Day), I think the next quoted Church Father is more likely to be correct in that 1 Corinthians 3:13 – 15 “Saved by Fire” case refers to “Lake of Fire Context”.

 

Can you see it?

 

 

 

3) Non Elect Salvation POSSIBILITY via St. Ambrose of Milan who also condemned NOVATIAN in his other writings

 

St. Ambrose of Milan’s quote below seems to show the POSSIBILITY that “some” (if not all) may be SAVED AFTER the FINAL LAKE OF FIRE JUDGMENT [to quote from Page 1231 onward of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook]:

 

‘… “OUR SAVIOUR has appointed TWO KINDS of RESURRECTION in the APOCALYPSE. ‘Blessed is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION,’ for such COME TO GRACE WITHOUT JUDGMENT. As FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT COME TO THE FIRST, but are reserved unto the SECOND RESURRECTION, THESE SHALL BE DISCIPLINED UNTIL THEIR APPOINTED TIMES, BETWEEN THE FIRST AND THE SECOND RESURRECTION; or, if they should not have fulfilled them then, they shall remain still longer in punishment … ‘ – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD)

 

Source: https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ambrose

 

 

 

Comment: St. Ambrose of Milan’s quote is so important that it has even affected Roman Catholicism, example quote:

“… In spite of his great status as a Doctor of the Church, however, the theology of Ambrose has at least two unique features that have basically been unacceptable to church dogma for many centuries but which are attracting more attention today. First, it teaches universal salvation. Ambrose was a Christian universalist; he believed that all people would eventually achieve salvation: “For now, since all do not believe, all do not seem to be in subjection. But when all have believed and done the will of God, then Christ will be all and in all.”[5] Perhaps because he was able to read Greek, Ambrose’s theology was significantly influenced by that of Origen (c.185-c.254) and Didymus the Blind (c.313-c.398), two other early Christian universalists. Needless to say, universal salvation is more acceptable to the Catholic Church today, as its new, post-Vatican II Catechism says: “In hope, the Church prays for ‘all men to be saved’.”[6] …”

 

Source: https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ambrose

 

 

That same quote may be found in link below (in his main Book, not a disputed source):

“… 182. Let us then shortly sum up our conclusion on the whole matter. A unity of power puts aside all idea of a degrading subjection. His giving up of power, and His victory as conqueror won over death, have not lessened His power. Obedience works out subjection. Christ has taken obedience upon Himself, obedience even to taking on Him our flesh, the cross even to gaining our salvation. Thus where the work lies, there too is the Author of the work. When therefore, all things have become subject to Christ, through Christ’s obedience, so that all bend their knees in His name, then He Himself will be all in all. For now, since all do not believe, all do not seem to be in subjection. But when all have believed and done the will of God, then Christ will be all and in all. And when Christ is all and in all, then will God be all and in all; for the Father abides ever in the Son. How, then, is He shown to be weak, Who redeemed the weak?

 

  1. And lest you should by chance attribute to the weakness of the Son, that it is written, that God has put all things in subjection under Him; learn that He has Himself brought all things into subjection to Himself, for it is written: Our conversation is in heaven, from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus, Who shall change our vile body that it may be fashioned like His glorious body according to the working, whereby He is able to subdue all things unto Himself. Philippians 3:20-21 You have learned, therefore, that He can subdue all things unto Himself according to the working of His Godhead. …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD)

Source (  Exposition of the Christian Faith, Book V, Chapter 15 ):

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/34045.htm

 

Note: St. Ambrose of Milan is quite confident of his “universalism” (or non-Elect Salvation quotes in some way to be true) as he writes this as part of the  “Christian Doctrine” in his Book titled “… Exposition of the Christian Faith, Book V, Chapter 15 …” above where he must be summarizing what the ‘Common Christian Belief’ was even before St. Augustine of Hippo whom even he converted.

 

More regarding St. Ambrose of Milan in link below:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrose

 

Now we know that St. Ambrose of Milan is clearly referring to the LAKE OF FIRE CONTEXT because he was a CHILIAST too and his OTHER QUOTES from even the ‘Roman Catholic Source who doesn’t believe in CHILIASM but preserved it’ can be seen further in “his own words” below regarding THIS NON – ELECT SALVATION for FALLEN CHRISTIANS (as only the “term non-Elect” is NOT coined but the idea is expressed by him as follows):

 

“… Here is the magistrate and the judge that shows you the one who showed the accuser; and it shows when He will be revealed: “In the day, is it said, where God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Rom., II, 16). This judge, therefore, is Jesus Christ, through whom are repeated secret faults and inflicted the punishment of evil deeds. You want to know that Christ is this judge who delivers to the executor and throws in prison? question him; or rather read what he says in the Gospel: “Take it and cast it into darkness outside” (Matt. xxxiii. 13, Matthew 25:30, Matthew 8:12). He also showed his executioners in another passage, where He says, “It will be the same at the end of time: the angels will come to separate the wicked from the righteous, and throw them into the blazing furnace. weeping and gnashing of teeth “(Matt, XIII, 49ffq). It remains to be seen now what the figure of the obole means. And it seems that the name of this familiar object expresses the mystery of a spiritual sense. Indeed, as one pays his debt by returning the money, and as the title to the interest is extinguished only when the whole amount of the capital is paid until the last denier, whatever the mode of payment, of it is by the compensation of charity and other works, or by some satisfaction, that the penalty of sin is extinguished. Nor is it without reason that he did not mention in this place, as elsewhere, two pieces of copper (Lc, XXI, 2), an ace (Matt., X, 29), nor a denier (Ib., XX, 2), but an obole; for the transfer of an obole29 is a kind of exchange, where one puts one thing in sign of the acquittal of another. Likewise here: either the wrong is redeemed at the price of charity, or the punishment diminished according to the appreciation of the wrong. Now it is the custom, as we remember, to give a bath to the baths: by presenting it, everyone obtains the faculty of bathing there; so, here, to be purified, because the sin of each is purified by the kind of transaction described above. On the other hand, the guilty person is tortured and tortured as long as he has not served the sentence of the error committed. …”– Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:58 – 59)

 

Source:

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/luke-commentary/ambrose-on-luke-12

 

Please notice the following:

 

 

  1. The Commentary above is for Luke 12:58 – 59 by St. Ambrose as you can read in the link too

 

 

  1. St. Ambrose clearly states that Luke 12:58 – 59 applies to the Future Lake of Fire Judgment Context in his quote above as he links it with Matthew 25:46, Matthew 13:49 and even Romans 2:16 (please read the above ‘carefully’ if you missed it). In the above quoted as ‘… Matt. xxxiii. 13, Matthew 25:30, Matthew 8:12 … Matt, XIII, 49ffq

 

 

iii. The Sin is diminished

 

St. Ambrose defined Luke 12:49 to refer to the Final Lake of Fire/Gehenna Judgment as the Final Baptism of Fire on that Day toward the Wicked or Fallen Believers too where the sin or the work of the flesh perish.

 

“… I came to set the earth on fire, and what is my will, if not that finally it lights up? [Luke 12:49] I must be baptized with a baptism, and what is my torment as long as it is not accomplished! ” Higher up, He has kept us vigilant, waiting at all times for the coming of the Lord Savior, lest by slackening, by negligence, by differing from day to day his work, such, preceded by the day of the future judgment or by his own death, lose the reward of his management. It was addressed to all, in the form of a general precept; but the theme of the following comparison seems to be proposed to the bishops, that is to say, to the bishops, to let them know that they will have to undergo a severe punishment later, if, occupied with the pleasures of the century, they neglected to govern the house of the Lord and the people entrusted to them. But as the profit is thin, and the merit is low, when it is the fear of the punishment which prevents from going astray, since the charity and the love have a superior dignity, the Lord sharpens our zeal to deserve its favor and we are inflamed with the desire to acquire God, saying, “I have come to set fire to the earth,” not certainly the fire that consumes the goods, but the one that produces the good will, which makes the vases of and from the house of the Lord, consuming the hay and the straw (I Cor. iii. 12ff., 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15), devouring all the gangue of the age, amassed by worldly pleasure, the work of the flesh that is to perish;…  They have thus taught with evidentness what is the action of this fire, which enlightens the intimate of the heart. For this reason perhaps the Lord will come into the fire (see Is., LXVI, 15; 16): to consume all the vices at the moment of the resurrection, to fill by his presence the desires of each one, and to project the light on merits and mysteries….” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:49 – 50)

 

Source:

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/luke-commentary/ambrose-on-luke-12

 

 

Proof Phrase that this Refers to the Final Lake of Fire Judgment toward THOSE CHRISTIANS WHO ARE TREATED AS UNBELIEVERS  (Luke 12:46) from the above by St. Ambrose himself (hence NON ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY, RIGHT?) – please notice the words “bishops” in quote below too meaning even “pastors” etc. are NOT exempt from this SCRUTINY and he DOES NOT limit it to them only but CLEARLY SAYS THAT IT IS ADDRESSED TO “ALL“, hence “all Fallen Christians here with possibly unbelievers too, as ALL men“):

 

 

“…  I came to set the earth on fire, and what is my will, if not that finally it lights up? [Luke 12:49]… preceded by the day of the future judgment or by his own death, lose the reward of his management. It was addressed to allseems to be proposed to the bishops, that is to say, to the bishops, to let them know that they will have to undergo a severe punishment later, if, occupied with the pleasures of the century, they neglected to govern the house of the Lord and the people entrusted to them … I have come to set fire to the earth,” not certainly the fire that consumes the goods, but the one that produces the good will, which makes the vases of and from the house of the Lord, consuming the hay and the straw (I Cor. iii. 12ff., 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15), devouring all the gangue of the age, amassed by worldly pleasure, the work of the flesh that is to perish;…”. – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, highlighted from above)

 

Indeed, you can clearly see that St. Ambrose reveals that some Christian leaders or bishops are punished as unbelievers (Luke 12:46) in the Lake of Fire Context (hence the current purgatory is not enough) during the future Day of Judgment in a fire which produces ‘good will’ as he even quotes 1 Corinthians 3:12 implying that 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15 may be applied to mean Salvation from the Lake of Fire, yeseven so through fire” (1 Corinthians 3:15) toward such fallen-believers who are deemed equal to unbelievers who have ‘equal sentences’ (Luke 12:46)  proving our Context Claim Right Again. Can you see it?

 

Regardless, the “wicked” are said to be in the lake of Fire only till the last penny (not forever but an Aeonian Sentence which is proportioned  according to their sin AS THIS INTERPRETATION IS POSSIBLE too) as St. Ambrose’s commentary on Verses 58 – 59 prior clearly prove as follows:

 

“… It will be the same at the end of time: the angels will come to separate the wicked from the righteous, and throw them into the blazing furnace …   or the punishment diminished according to the appreciation of the wrong … so, here, to be purified, because the sin of each is purified by the kind of transaction described above. … On the other hand, the guilty person is tortured and tortured as long as he has not served the sentence of the error committed…”– Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke 12:58 – 59, highlighted)

 

Christ Himself is the “Fire” through which they are Saved (1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15) as St. Ambrose Revealed above:

 

“… For this reason perhaps the Lord will come into the fire (see Is., LXVI, 15; 16): to consume all the vices at the moment of the resurrection, to fill by his presence the desires of each one, and to project the light on merits and mysteries….” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke 12:49, highlighted)

 

Strangely, the Commentary for Luke 12:46 – 48 is missing in the link above. Did St. Ambrose not write it or was it lost in history?

Here are other example quotes by St. Ambrose of Milan in the “Charity Doctrine” as the “Fruit of Eternal Life Context” (either as REWARD of TYPE of ETERNAL LIFE, example though not Written here but I infer possibly some saved on the final New Earth only as regulars and NOT all of them VISIT the BRIDE (Christians) in HEAVEN either but only those NAMES IN THE BOOK OF LIFE as I have discussed this POSSIBILITY, NOT DOCTRINE yet again especially in Pages 1709 to 1710 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook as it’s HARD to DECIPHER but St. Ambrose’s quotes help it too), examples:

 

“…  He calls each blessed, both him whose sins are remitted by the font, and him whose sin is covered by good works. For he who repents ought not only to wash away his sin by his tears, but also to cover and hide his former transgressions by amended deeds, that sin may not be imputed to him.8 … : This is the word of the Lord, this is the precious talent, whereby you are redeemed. This money must often be seen on the tables of souls, in order that by constant trading the sound of the good coins may be able to go forth into every land, by the means of which eternal life is purchased.9 … We have also noted already that the blessedness of eternal life is the reward for good works 10 …”…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD)

 

Source:  https://www.calledtocommunion.com/2019/09/st-ambrose-on-sola-fide/

 

  1. St. Ambrose On Repentance 2.5.35 [↩]

 

  1. St. Ambrose De Fide Book V, Prologue.15 [↩], Preface of book V on the Christian Faith, in the context of the parable of the talents, he concludes his opening commentary with the following quoted above

 

  1. St. Ambrose On the Duties of the Clery 2.3.9 [↩]

 

 

 

 

 

 

  1. Two Ways Sin is Diminished in the ‘Prison’ of the Lake of Fire

 

Bible Verses:

 

“… For while you are going with your opponent to appear before the magistrate, on your way there make an effort to settle with him, so that he may not drag you before the judge, and the judge turn you over to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. “I say to you, you will not get out of there until you have paid the very last cent. …” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:58 – 59, NASB)

 

  1. a) 1st & 2nd Way Combined (the Last Baptism of Fire which applies to All Human Being either in this life or next – Mark 9:49, Joel 2:28, Acts 2:17):

 

“…Likewise here: either the wrong is redeemed at the price of charity, or the punishment diminished according to the appreciation of the wrong. Now it is the custom, as we remember, to give a bath to the baths: by presenting it, everyone obtains the faculty of bathing there; so, here, to be purified, because the sin of each is purified by the kind of transaction described above. On the other hand, the guilty person is tortured and tortured as long as he has not served the sentence of the error committed…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:58 – 59, highlighted)

 

  1. b) 1st Way highlighted:

 

“…Likewise here: either the wrong is redeemed at the price of charity, … so, here, to be purified, because the sin of each is purified by the kind of transaction described above. …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:58 – 59, highlighted)

 

 

This is similar to the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle lived first as the BASIS for JUDGMENT for REMOVAL OF SINS in the LAKE OF FIRE CONTEXT as even St. Augustine of Hippo’s quotes ring likewise [to quote from Pages 1703 to 1704 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook as follows]:  In his famous  quote here, St. Augustine of Hippo is talking about the CONTEXT of the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle  for the CONTEXT OF REMOVAL OF JUDGMENT OF SINS based on the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE LIVED FIRST in LIFE PRIOR before SALVATION in the SPIRIT WORLD is granted (though he limits this occurrence to ‘Christians only’ which is DEBATABLE especially with the SHEPHERD of HERMAS or other Church Father quotes etc. but the POINT that CHARITY DOCTRINE  is ESENTIAL for FRUIT of ETERNAL LIFE is clearly Taught in First Christianity), in St. Augustine’s own words below too (which is from the same quote above but different translation and fuller, as I said the fact remains the same regardless of the source):

 

“… Chapter 69. It is Not Impossible that Some Believers May Pass Through a Purgatorial Fire in the Future Life. … And it is not impossible that something of the same kind may take place even after this life. It is a matter that may be inquired into, and either ascertained or left doubtful, whether SOME BELIEVERS SHALL PASS through a KIND OF PURGATORIAL FIRE, and in PROPORTION AS THEY HAVE LOVED WITH MORE or LESS DEVOTION THE GOODS THAT PERISH, BE LESS OR MORE QUICKLY DELIVERED FROM IT. This cannot, however, be the case of any of those of whom it is said, that they shall not inherit the kingdom of God, unless after SUITABLE REPENTANCE THEIR SINS be FORGIVEN THEM. WHEN I SAY SUITABLE, I mean that THEY ARE NOT TO BE UNFRUITFUL in ALMSGIVING; for HOLY SCRIPTURE LAYS SO MUCH STRESS ON THIS VIRTUE, THAT our LORD TELLS US BEFOREHAND, that HE WILL ASCRIBE NO MERIT to THOSE ON HIS RIGHT HAND but THAT THEY ABOUND IN IT, and no defect to those on His left hand but their want of it, when He shall say to the former, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom, and to the latter, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire. ” … Chapter 70. Almsgiving Will Not Atone for Sin Unless the Life Be Changed. …We must beware, however, lest any one should suppose that gross sins, such as are committed by those who shall not inherit the kingdom of God, may be daily perpetrated, and daily atoned for by almsgiving. The life must be changed for the better; and almsgiving must be used to propitiate God for past sins, not to purchase impunity for the commission of such sins in the future. For He has given no man license to sin, although in His mercy He may blot out sins that are already committed, if we do not neglect to make proper satisfaction.  …” – Blessed St. Augustine of Hippo, Doctor of the Church, who influenced virtually all of subsequent Western philosophy and Catholic theology, as well as a significant amount of Protestant theology, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD, [63]  Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love (St. Augustine) Translated by J.F. Shaw. From Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series, Vol. 3. Edited by Philip Schaff. (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Publishing Co., 1887.) Revised and edited for New Advent by Kevin Knight.”) Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1302.htm

So since St. Augustine of Hippo is saved even according to John Calvin himself (the founder of Reformed Churches) and if he taught this Doctrine, we can too and be saved where we debate on its accuracy using other First Christianity writing whether or not this refers to fallen Christians only or beyond even as a “non-Elect Salvation” too. can you “see” it?

 

 

  1. c) 2nd Way highlighted:

 

“…Likewise here: either … or the punishment diminished according to the appreciation of the wrong. … so, here, to be purified, because the sin of each is purified by the kind of transaction described above… the guilty person is tortured and tortured as long as he has not served the sentence of the error committed…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:58 – 59, highlighted)

 

  1. St. Ambrose of Milan thus seems to propose that the Final Gehenna or Lake of Fire Judgment is Till the last Penny only and not Forever as per these Verses (and the fact that his quotes EXIST PROVES that the ROMAN CATHOLICS did NOT CHANGE it as it DOESN’T SEEM to SUPPORT THEIR VIEW of PURGATORY either as this SEEMS TO BE on JUDGMENT DAY’S LAKE OF FIRE CONTEXT and not now in HADES before ‘that Day’)

 

“…  saying, “I have come to set fire to the earth,” [Luke 12:49] not certainly the fire that consumes the goods, but the one that produces the good will, which makes the vases of and from the house of the Lord, consuming the hay and the straw (I Cor. iii. 12ff., 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15), devouring all the gangue of the age, amassed by worldly pleasure, the work of the flesh that is to perish;… For this reason perhaps the Lord will come into the fire (see Is., LXVI, 15; 16): to consume all the vices at the moment of the resurrection, to fill by his presence the desires of each one, and to project the light on merits and mysteries…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:49 – 50, highlighted)

 

and

 

“… Likewise here: either the wrong is redeemed at the price of charity, or the punishment diminished according to the appreciation of the wrong. Now it is the custom, as we remember, to give a bath to the baths: by presenting it, everyone obtains the faculty of bathing there; so, here, to be purified, because the sin of each is purified by the kind of transaction described above. On the other hand, the guilty person is tortured and tortured as long as he has not served the sentence of the error committed…” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:58 – 59, highlighted)

 

Does being Saved in the Spirit World after Judgment (i.e. Post-Mortem Salvation of some type) Contradict Christ’s Work on the Cross?

 

If so, none of these most Orthodox Church Leaders quoted here saw any such contradiction to Christ’s Work on His Cross if Salvation was Possible after Spirit World Judgment or Final Judgment, for if not, they would not even have considered such a ‘spirit world salvation or judgment day salvation’ as their quotes demonstrate here.

 

Here’s a possible explanation as to “how“:

 

In light of Christ’s Quotes we understand that the “Charity Doctrine” removes the “Judgment of Sins“*  but it cannot give new life nor give Resurrection.

 

Only the Blood of Christ Can Remove Sin itself and bring us to the Resurrection Life beginning within us on earth itself.  So only Christ’s Atonement and Work Gives us Life.

 

The Almsgiving stops the ‘Judgment of Sins’, nothing more as that’s the Context meant in Tobit or elsewhere in Verses quoted here (even in Christ’s Parable of the Rich Man and Beggar Lazarus too which Speaks of this absence of Charity Doctrine leads straight to Hell in Luke 16:19 – 31) by which even Lazarus can be ‘spared of that Judgment’ too.

 

*Here are some Bible Verses regarding “Almsgiving and/or #CharityDoctrineLifestyle” Quoted in both the “Old Testament” (by Blessed Prophet Daniel himself to whom was Revealed the ‘Wise will Shine Like Heavens Verse) and also in the “New Testament” (to Blessed Apostle St. Paul the Original ‘Faith Alone by Grace’ Preacher) in Verses quoted next in the CONTEXT of CHARITY DOCTRINE for the REMOVAL OF JUDGMENT OF SINS:

 

 

  1. i) Old Testament

 

“… Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and BREAK OFF THY SINS BY RIGHTEOUSNESS, and THINE INIQUITIES BY SHEWING MERCY TO THE POOR; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity. …” – Blessed and Holy Prophet Daniel (Daniel 4:27, KJV based on the Masoretic Text)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/daniel/4-27.htm

 

Compare:

 

” … 27Therefore, O king, let my counsel please thee, and ATONE FOR THY SINS BY ALMS, and THINE INIQUITIES BY COMPASSION ON THE POOR: it may be God will be long-suffering to thy trespasses.” … – Blessed and Holy Prophet Daniel (Daniel 4:27, Brenton Septuagint Translation, based on the Septuagint or LXX)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/daniel/4.htm

 

A key difference is that both the Masoretic and LXX for this Verse has the “other” equivalent phrase “… and THINE INIQUITIES BY SHEWING MERCY TO THE POOR; …” = “… and THINE INIQUITIES BY COMPASSION ON THE POOR …” which proves the “Charity Doctrine” for the removal of  “Judgment of Sins” regardless.

 

 

 

 

 

  1. ii) New Testament

 

“… 16The LORD GRANT MERCY to the HOUSEHOLD OF ONESIPHORUS, FOR HE OFTEN REFRESHED ME, and was not ashamed of my chain; 17but when he arrived in Rome, he sought me out very zealously and found me. 18The LORD GRANT TO HIM THAT HE MAY FIND MERCY FROM THE LORD IN THAT DAY—and YOU KNOW VERY WELL HOW MANY WAYS HE MINISTERED [d]TO ME AT EPHESUS. …” (2 Timothy 1:12 – 18, NKJV)

 

Comments:

 

  1. Please notice that “God’s Mercy” on “that Day (Judgment Day)” is only Quoted in Scripture to refer to “Eternal Life” Context.

 

  1. This Verse regarding ONESIPHORUS cannot be in Context of Reward because “no” extra Reward can be given based on Mercy as “Rewards are based on Merit (deserved)” while in comparison “Mercy” is given based on God’s Decision alone to the “undeserved”.

 

  1. So the “Mercy” in “That Day” spoken in Verses here toward ONESIPHORUS or even the HOUSEHOLD OF ONESIPHORUS as a whole most likely points to “Mercy unto Eternal Life” based on the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle lived as I have discussed in Pages 1182 to 1193 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook here.

 

  1. This is “not” Salvation by Works but rather the “Fruit” of Salvation which will be evidenced in any person’s life whom “God Saves” and thus “Common Ground” toward all who are Saved by Mercy on Judgment Day via this Charity Doctrine Fruit also implies that this must be “the oil” the Wise Virgins had as First Christianity Taught likewise.

 

 

  1. Apostle St. Paul won’t be asking for “Mercy” to be shown to Blessed Onesiphorus due to the latter’s “Charity Doctrine Lifestyle” unless it is “possible” based on this on “Judgment Day” and that’s why we consider the “possibility” that even Possibly some non-Christians may be shown this same Mercy if they were kind to Christians likewise by practicing the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle toward Christians too. So we can ask but let God Alone Decide in the end which makes no one a heretic here.
  2. Example Quote by Scholars for this part that ONESIPHORUS is definitely most likely DEAD

 

“… But now, at the time of correspondence, only “Luke alone is with (Paul)” (4:11). Because Paul speaks of Onesiphorus only in the past tense, wishes blessings upon his house (family), and mercy for him “in that day”, some scholars believe that Onesiphorus had at this point died.[5] Towards the end of the same letter, in 2 Timothy 4:19, Paul sends greetings to “Priscilla and Aquila, and the house of Onesiphorus“, again apparently distinguishing the situation of Onesiphorus from that of the still-living Priscilla and Aquila. Paul’s reference to Onesiphorus, along with 2 Maccabees 12:40–46, is cited by Catholics as one of the early examples of prayer for the dead,[6] while some Protestants opposing this practice reject such an interpretation.[7] …”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onesiphorus

Mysterious and Difficult, isn’t it?

 

 

  1. Blessed Apostle St. James himself seems to echo likewise that in “Judgment Day Context”, the #CharityDoctrine Acts of Mercy can TRIUMPH over the LAST (Final) JUDGMENT even and the person can be Saved IF GOD DECIDES so. Verses:

 

“… 13For JUDGMENT IS WITHOUT MERCY to the ONE WHO HAS SHOWN NO MERCY. MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT.. …” (James 2:13, NKJV)

 

  1. Galatians 6:8 Possible Context

 

“… 6Let him who is taught the word share in all good things with him who teaches. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he WHO SOWS TO THE SPIRIT WILL OF THE SPIRIT REAP EVERLASTING LIFE. 9And let us NOT GROW WEARY while DOING GOOD, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us DO GOOD TO ALL, ESPECIALLY TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF FAITH. …” (Galatians 6:6 – 10, NKJV)

 

 

Comments:

 

  1. i) These Verses are primarily talking about “Doing Good” in the Context of the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle of “sharing and giving” as Verses 6 and 10 imply clearly.

 

  1. ii) Context for Verse 8’s ‘reap Everlasting Life’ seems to be ‘General’ in light of Verse 7 which Speaks of ‘man in General’. If this is true, then it can explain that those with “Good obedience to God’s Law/Gospel” as we saw in “Romans 2:13” earlier can thus be “Justified” for “Eternal Life” based on “Doing Good” (as Romans 2:7 describes) under this understanding that it is NOT their works which saves them but that by DOING HIS WILL (His Command for DOING GOOD here) they “REAP ETERNAL LIFE from HIS SPIRIT” as a “GIFT” because any COMMAND of GOD when FULFILLED SOWS into HIS SPIRIT.

 

iii) Context for Verse 6 reveals the #CharityDoctrine type of DOING GOOD as the main type even or the best type of DOING GOOD toward one who shared GOSPEL THINGS too.

 

  1. iv) Context for Verse 9 describes that we should “… NOT GROW WEARY while DOING GOOD …” indicating that DOING GOOD ought to be a #LIFESTYLE and not once in a while as only a lifestyle such as the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle can cause one to be WEARY (indicating persistence and perseverance) implying that “once in a while type of doing Good” may NOT SOW INTO THE SPIRIT for EVERLASTING LIFE as Verse 8 can be connected to it.

 

  1. v) The Condition “… we shall reap if we do not lose heart …” (Galatians 6:9) indicates that some may lose heart (Conditional to “our free choice”) to persevere in this. Please notice that contrary to popular Christian understanding that “reaping” refers to rewards, these Verses point to REAPING EVERLASTING LIFE (Verse 8) under this condition of “perseverance”.

 

Can you see it?

  1. vi) Verse 10 makes it very clear that this DOING GOOD referred to from Verses 6 to 10 here is primarily or probably only the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as “no” other type of good can a Christian do toward ‘all men’ (beyond believers as instructed here – can you see it?) where the REAPING here is NOT REWARDS only BUT EVERLASTING LIFE too (Verse 8, Context).

vii)  So in Principle, this REAPING here which is NOT REWARDS only BUT EVERLASTING LIFE too by SOWING into THE SPIRIT’s COMMANDS (Galatians 6:8)  based on especially the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle lived toward ALL MEN and not-believers-only  (Galatians 6:9, 10) could explain in analogy how the Romans 2:13 earlier’s JUSTIFIED ones may apply likewise toward JUDGMENT DAY Salvation as Romans 2:7 and Romans 2:10 implies based on “Deeds/Works” (Romans 2:6) toward some non-Christians too as Romans 2:11 here seems to agree to this possible generalization as there is “no” partiality with God (by Relative Measure of what Gospel Command they have heard):

 

“… 6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 ETERNAL LIFE to those who by PATIENT CONTINUANCE IN DOING GOOD SEEK FOR GLORY, HONOR and IMMORTALITY;  … 10but glory, honor, and peace to EVERYONE WHO WORKS WHAT IS GOOD, TO THE JEW FIRST AND ALSO TO THE GREEK [Gentiles]. 11For there is NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD. …12 and as many as have SINNED IN THE LAW WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW 13(for NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST IN THE SIGHT OF GOD,  BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW WILL BE JUSTIFIED …” (Romans 2:6, 7, 10, 11,12, 13 NKJV)

How about their sins?

Comment: I mean  just like for Galatians 6:6 – 10’s Context of “Believers”, this “REAPING unto EVERLASTING LIFE” based on “SOWING (by Doing His Commands)” is imperfect as Christians too have “sins”, likewise I think it is possible that the sins of such non-Christians may thus be forgiven for those saved ones. Where is the threshold? Only God knows (if this interpretation is true).

 

  1. Believing after Seeing Possibility and hence these may be Saved on Judgment Day as “non-Elect Salvation types” if true.

 

[ From Page 1212 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Note some of these who are saved may be justified after Judgment via the “believing after seeing case”

 

“… JESUS SAID TO HIM, “Thomas, because you have SEEN ME, YOU HAVE BELIEVED. BLESSED ARE THOSE who have NOT SEEN and YET HAVE BELIEVED.” …” (John 20:29, NKJV)

 

“… No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. …” (John 6:44, NKJV)

 

“… And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” …” (John 12:32, NKJV)

 

Perhaps Christ’s Draws all People to Himself to give them this chance of Believing after seeing Possibility for a  non-Elect Salvation Possibility as the “Context” for these Verses around John 6:44 above seems to point to that as follows:

 

“… 36But I said to you that YOU HAVE SEEN ME and YET DO NOT BELIEVE … 40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES THE SON and BELIEVES IN HIM may have EVERLASTING LIFE; and I will RAISE HIM UP at the LAST DAY.” …” (John 6:36, 40, NKJV)

 

  1. i) Some non-Christians may be spared the ‘Lake of Fire Judgment’ if they lived out the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle toward #Christians (non-Elect Salvation POSSIBILITY) based on these Bible Verses:

 

“… 37“Then the RIGHTEOUS WILL ANSWER Him, saying, ‘Lord, When Did We See You Hungry And Feed YOU, or THIRSTY AND GIVE YOU DRINK? 38WHEN DID WE SEE YOU A STRANGER and TAKE YOU IN, OR NAKED AND CLOTHE YOU? 39Or WHEN DID WE SEE YOU SICK, OR in PRISON, AND COME TO YOU?’ 40And THE KING WILL ANSWER and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I SAY TO YOU, INASMUCH AS YOU DID IT TO ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHREN, YOU DID IT TO ME.’ …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 25:37 – 40, NKJV)

 

Could these SURPRISED SHEEP be the SHEEP FROM the OTHER FOLD CHRIST SPOKE of in Verse below?

 

“… And OTHER SHEEP I have which are NOT OF THIS FOLD; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. …” (John 10:16, NKJV)

 

 

Note: As opposed to the usual view that the ‘sheep of the other fold’ could refer to Jew vs Gentile, the fact that the JUDGMENT DAY SURPRISED SHEEP of the NATIONS [Matthew 25:31 – 46] are SAVED 1000 YEARS AFTER the WEDDING/CHRISTIAN Salvation of the FIRST RESURRECTION as “Chiliasm” Doctrine Taught [Revelation 20:4 – 6, Luke 20:34 – 36] seem to point (as discussed even with St. Irenaeous of Lyon’s Quotes** with others say in Pages 1389 to 1397 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.), John 10:16 could be referring to these Sheep thens “possibly”.

 

These SURPRISED SHEEP of the NATIONS (being ‘surprised’ on Judgment Day itself could indicate most likely that these are NOT CHRISTIANS) could be the MEEK of whom CHRIST SAID could INHERIT THE EARTH referring to this FINAL NEW EARTH CONTEXT most likely:

 

“… BLESSED are the MEEK, For they shall INHERIT THE EARTH. …” – The KING Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:5, NKJV)

 

I think that SOME of these ones will become the KINGS of THE EARTH who then BRING GLORY and HONOUR INTO THE FINAL HEAVENLY NEW JERUSALEM CITY as Described in Verse below:

 

“… and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]INTO IT [Final Heavenly New Jerusalem City which descends and connects to the Final New Earth literally*].  …” (Revelation 21:24, NKJV)

 

 

*Emphasis Mine for clarity, verse for this part:

 

“… Come, I will show you the [g]BRIDE, the LAMB’S WIFE.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED ME THE [H]GREAT CITY, the [I]HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN from God …” (Revelation 21:9 – 10, NKJV)

 

 

Even your sins are covered from Judgment if you love like this (again, CHRIST HIMSELF TAUGHT THIS DIRECTLY as follows)

 

 

“… And above all things have fervent love for one another, for “LOVE will COVER a MULTITUDE OF SINS.” …”(1 Peter 4:8, NKJV)

 

 

“… Therefore I say to you, HER SINS, which are MANY, ARE FORGIVEN, for SHE LOVED MUCH. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 7:47, NKJV)

 

  1. ii) Some non-Christians may be SAVED BY FIRE via the ‘Lake of Fire Judgment’ if they lived a mixed life of good and evil (non-Elect Salvation POSSIBILITY) based on these Bible Verses:

 

Bride Vs “Nations of those who are Saved”

 

“… Come, I will show you the [g]BRIDE, the LAMB’S WIFE.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED ME THE [H]GREAT CITY, the [I]HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN from God,  … 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE. …” (Revelation 21:9 – 10, 24 – 27, NKJV)

 

Comments:

 

  1. I do “not” think that every one of the “nations who are saved” will get to “enter to Visit that Final Heavenly Jerusalem City on that Final New Earth with no sea even” for if so the EXCEPTION clause “… but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE. …” ENTER into that CITY has no meaning.

 

  1. In other words, the existence of this phrase “… but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE …” enter into that City implies that perhaps NOT all of the “Nations who are saved” get to enter into it.

 

  1. The only ones from among the “Earth” mentioned to ENTER into the CITY but (they seem to be DISTINCTLY mentioned from the BRIDE/CHRISTIANS here) meaning they are POSSIBLY NON-CHRISTIANS (non-Elect Salvation) as contrasted to Visit the Bride into this Final Heavenly Jerusalem City which has Descended and Connected to that Final New Earth are called the “KINGS of the EARTH” which may be the BEST AMONG THEM as this phrase refers to them here “… and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. …”.

 

 

  1. Another possibility is that since all Christians are Kings/Priests (Revelation 1:6, 5:10 – please see Pages 1358/9 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook for this) so perhaps if the KINGS of the EARTH refers to CHRISTIANS ONLY here, then the “normal saved person among the nations who are saved” must then be “non-Christians, right? because all Christians are Kings over them“. So the KINGS (Christians) may be going into the CITY and then bring out the LEAVES from the TREE OF LIFE (which I think most likely is a literal tree as discussed say in Pages 1227 to 1230 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ) for the HEALING OF THESE NATIONS, Verses:

 

“… 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. … In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was THE TREE OF LIFE, which bore TWELVE FRUITS, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 21:24 , 22:2, NKJV)

 

Verses for Terrestrial Resurrection Body (Earthly) Vs Celestial Resurrection Body (Heavenly)

 

“… 39ALL FLESH IS NOT THE SAME FLESH, but there is one kind [f]of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. 40There are also [g]CELESTIAL BODIES and [h]TERRESTRIAL BODIES; but the GLORY of the CELESTIAL is one, and the GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42So also is the RESURRECTION of THE DEAD.  …” (1 Corinthians 15:39 – 42, NKJV)

 

Please also notice very carefully in 1 Corinthians 15:40 that two types of “Glory” are mentioned for the final Resurrection Bodies namely “but the GLORY of the CELESTIAL is one,” Vs ” and the GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another.” (in 1 Corinthians 15:40).

 

Now the word “Glory” in “… GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another …” (mentioned clearly in 1 Corinthians 15:40) in this Context of “Resurrection of the Dead” (1 Corinthians 15:42)  itself indicates that some of the of the TERRESTRIAL RESURRECTION BODIES are also “Saved” for it doesn’t seem logical for a body raised with “glory” to be “unsaved“. To say that this “Terrestrial Glory” ones refers to some lower Christians contradicts Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32 which describes Christ Sharing One Flesh with all Christians in some way and so they must be “CELESTIAL (Heavenly) RESURRECTION GLORY Bodies only“.

 

Note: The “terrestrial/earthly body salvation” for some other “nations who are saved with kings of the earth” (the word ‘earth’ signifying ‘terrestrial salvation’ with ‘terrestrial body too’) may be revealed in Verses above as they Visit the Heavenly City toward only those who are Written in the Lamb’s Book of Life where ‘His Church/Bride is’ (Who Alone have Celestial Resurrection Heavenly Body) as this aspect is discussed in detail say around in Page 603 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.

 

Here’s a First Christianity quote to ponder in light of all these:

 

“… 6. Wherefore also He drove him out of Paradise, and removed him far from the TREE OF LIFE, NOT because He envied him the TREE OF LIFE, as some venture to assert, but because He pitied him, [and did not desire] that he should CONTINUE a SINNER FOR EVER, NOR that the SIN which SURROUNDED him should be IMMORTAL, and EVIL INTERMINABLE and IRREMEDIABLE. But He set a bound to his [state of] sin, by interposing death, and thus causing sin to cease, Romans 6:7 putting an end to it by the dissolution of the flesh, which should take place in the earth, so that man, ceasing at length to live to sin, and dying to it, might begin to live to God. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Point 6, Chapter XXIII, Book 3)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html

 

Comment: In light of St. Irenaeous’ quote and his proximity with Blessed Apostle St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, the way evil/sin may be “healed” as his quote above seems to link it to the “TREE OF LIFE Context” may thus be connected in some way to the Verses below where the Verses for “LEAVES” of the “TREE OF LIFE” are for the “HEALING” of the “NATIONS

 

“… 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. … In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was THE TREE OF LIFE, which bore TWELVE FRUITS, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 21:24 , 22:2, NKJV)

 

(I am “not” saying that St. Gregory Nazianzus’ quote nor St. Ambrose of Milan’s quote is Scripture hence it could be right or wrong) but rather I am showing clearly that if any Church Father (for example St. Gregory Nazianzus or St. Ambrose of Milan here) both quote the Context of 1 Corinthians 3:12 – 19 to apply toward HERETICS (or ‘fallen Christians’ who are non-Christians even), then Verses 13 to 15 in it implies clearly the SAVED [after Judgment] BY [Lake of] FIRE case to apply to them hinting on “non-Elect Salvation” (just the term is not coined).

 

More regarding St. Gregory Nazianzus in link below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_of_Nazianzus

 

Why does St. Gregory Nazianzus call “COVETOUSNESS” (Love of “PROSPERITY“) as “SECOND IDOLATRY” in his quote above (much earlier at the start), is it BIBLICAL? Verses:

 

“… Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and COVETOUSNESS, WHICH IS IDOLATRY. ...” (Colossians 3:5, NKJV)

 

“… 5For [a]this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, NOR COVETOUS MAN, WHO IS AN IDOLATER, has ANY INHERITANCE IN THE KINGDOM of CHRIST AND GOD. 6Let NO ONE DECEIVE YOU WITH EMPTY WORDS,  …” (Ephesians 5:5 – 6, NKJV)

 

“… 5[b]useless wranglings of men of CORRUPT MINDS and DESTITUTE OF THE TRUTH, who suppose that GODLINESS IS A MEANS OF GAIN. [c]FROM SUCH WITHDRAW YOURSELF. 6Now GODLINESS WITH CONTENTMENT IS GREAT GAIN. 7For we brought nothing into this world, [d]and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8And HAVING FOOD AND CLOTHING, WITH THESE WE SHALL BE CONTENT. …” (1 Timothy 6:5 – 8, NKJV)

 

 

 

*ALMSGIVING (#CharityDoctrineLifestyle of Sharing and Giving for FREE from WHAT YOU HAVE and not from “Donation money or Church money only” or with YOUR POSSESSIONS) is the CURE of this SECOND IDOLATRY as even St. Gregory Nanzianzus’ quote above mentions clearly quoting Apostle St. Paul on it, Compare:

 

“… [39Then the Lord said to him,] “Now you Pharisees make the OUTSIDE OF THE CUP and DISH CLEAN, but YOUR INWARD PART is full of [k]GREED and WICKEDNESS. 40FOOLISH ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also? 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. 42“But woe to you Pharisees! For YOU TITHE mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and PASS BY JUSTICE and the LOVE of GOD These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE. 43Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the [m]best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. 44Woe to you, [n]scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like graves which are not seen, and the men who walk over them are not aware of them.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 11:39 – 45, NKJV)

 

Focus Quote from St. Gregory re-emphasized:

 

“… And WHY SHOULD NOVATUS’S WANT OF CHARITY BE A RULE FOR ME? HE NEVER PUNISHED COVETOUSNESS, WHICH IS SECOND IDOLATRY; BUT HE CONDEMNED FORNICATION AS THOUGH HE HIMSELF WERE NOT FLESH AND BODY. What say you?  …” – St. Gregory Nazianzus

 

Lesson: “Puritans” may think they are holy (but their doctrine is mostly only ‘outward holiness’) while they generally don’t emphasize INWARD HOLINESS which is ACHIEVED ONLY VIA ALMS (#CharityDoctrine) as CHRIST HIMSELF TAUGHT here but ‘they will deny’ (IF THEY LOVE COVETOUSNESS and vice versa) where let’s see on JUDGMENT DAY who was holier as the LORD WILL REVEAL whether it’s the “Novations” (the “first Puritans“) to the “modern puritans some of whom ignore the CHARITY DOCTRINE” (blessed are the Puritans among them who DO THE CHARITY DOCTRINE) or whether the CHURCH FATHERS were ‘dirtier or holier’ as I did NOT create a “new theology” to be judged like this but am just QUOTING and FOLLOWING  SOME the EARLIEST CHURCH FATHERS such as this at least as a POSSIBILITY with BIBLE VERSES to be SAFE SCRIPTURALLY.

 

Can you see it?

 

“… 7Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8Therefore bear FRUITS WORTHY OF REPENTANCE, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 9And even now the AX IS LAID TO THE ROOT OF THE TREES. Therefore EVERY TREE which DOES NOT BEAR GOOD FRUIT Is cut down and THROWN INTO THE FIRE.” 10So the people asked him, saying, “What shall we do then?” 11He answered and said to them, “HE WHO HAS TWO TUNICS, let him GIVE TO HIM WHO HAS NONE; and HE WHO HAS FOOD, LET HIM DO LIKEWISE.” 12Then tax collectors also came to be baptized, and said to him, “Teacher, what shall we do?” 13And he said to them, “COLLECT NO MORE THAN WHAT IS APPOINTED FOR YOU.” 14Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, “And what shall we do?” So he said to them, “DO NOT INTIMIDATE ANYONE or ACCUSE FALSELY, and BE CONTENT WITH YOUR WAGES. …” (Luke 3:7 – 14, NKJV)

Isn’t it amazing that St. John the Baptist’s Definition of the “Fruits WORTHY of Repentance” or GOOD FRUIT without which a Tree is thrown into FIRE is likewise ‘… Good Works primarily referring to SHARING FOOD/CLOTHES…’ , be CONTENT WITH YOUR WAGES (so no faith for Wealth as the Prosperity Gospel errs) and “cease to do evil” (e.g. don’t extort others or don’t take more than what’s appointed for you etc.),  in the above.

In comparison, from Page 1605 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook regarding St. John the Baptist’s Sermons which CERTAINLY was ANTI PROSPERITY and EMPHASIZED THE #CharityDoctrineLifestyle likewise, CHRIST PROMISED this to THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN IT:

That Verse in Matthew 21:32 again in another translation:

King James Bible
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

New American Standard Bible
For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even have second thoughts afterward so as to believe him.

Source: https://biblehub.com/matthew/21-32.htm

 

Do we believe in St. John the Baptist’s Sermon here as CHRIST HIMSELF told to “believe him”?

 

 

 

The New Covenant itself has the Purpose of Producing True Christians with  GOOD WORKS as per Verses below (where Covenant means, God Will ensure those who are Saved to do it according to the measure of faith, Romans 12:3 and relative measure given in life, Luke 21:1 – 4):

 

“… 20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our LORD JESUS, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the BLOOD of the EVERLASTING COVENANT 21MAKE YOU PERFECT in EVERY GOOD WORK to DO HIS WILL, working in you that which is WELL PLEASING in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. …” (Hebrews 13:20 – 21, KJV)

 

 

Peace to you

 

Until the Last Penny Possibility with St. Ambrose of Milan and others

1) Firstly, why is considering St. Ambrose of Milan’s quote alone may be enough as we have seen prior in Pages 1744 to 1772 in earlier Pages of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook too? (with St. Gregory Nanzianzus as well)

 

  1. i) Ambrose of Milan converted St. Augustine of Hippo but though they were from the same place at some time in history, their writings/doctrines start to differ considerably where St. Ambrose of Milan seems to believe in non-Elect Salvation (just that the term is NOT coined) either for “some or allwhile St. Augustine of Hippo seems to believe in Eternal Hell. So the chances of St. Ambrose of Milan’s Writing to be more accurate seems to be more possible, right?

 

  1. ii) Some Christians simply will accuse anything to do with such “non-Elect Salvation possibility as Universalism” or even as “originating from Origen of Alexandria” which is NOT necessarily true as I have shown quotes with even earlier more respected Church Fathers such as St. Ignatius of Antioch’s possible writings to even Irenaeous of Lyons or St. Justin Martyr too in earlier pages which are “hard to decide conclusively”.

 

iii) What such Christians don’t realize is that they are “following Origen of Alexandria and possibly Clement of Alexandria” (using allegorical interpretation) as NO EARLIER NAME among CHURCH FATHERS can be quoted to believe in the current eschasthalogical position maintained generally by the Roman Catholic Church even which DENIES the CHILIASM POSITION (as was believed by ALL EARLIEST CHURCH FATHERS including ST. AMBROSE of MILAN too) as I have discussed in Pages 1392 or around it for details even recently in Pages 1723 and 1724 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook where the chief DIFFERNCE is that they DO NOT believe in the LITERAL 1000 YEARS MILLENNIAL REIGN of CHRIST which is to HAPPEN DURING the FIRST RESURRECTION (Revelation 20:4 – 6) where they think IT IS HAPPENING NOW and that the 1000 YEARS PHRASE is just a FIGURE OF SPEECH or that it’s a SPIRITUAL RESURRECTION which DOESN’T EXIST actually because RESURRECTION is for BODILY RESURRECTION and the “spirits live in their abodes” till then WAITING for the REDEMPTION of the BODY (which is the ONLY RESSURECTION, i.e. BODILY RESURRECTION in SCRIPTURE as CHILIASM FATHERS Taught, as they are called academically like that).  Can you “see” it?

 

“… And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. …” (Romans 8:23, KJV)

 

“… And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: …” (Ephesians 2:6, KJV)

 

What this part clearly shows also is that the ROMAN CATHOLICS or other ORTHODOX  did NOT tamper with these ANCIENT WRITINGS and preserved it as it is especially when IT IS DIFFERENT in SOME WAYS or ALL from WHAT THEY BELIEVE. Indeed, if someone wanted to change the ancient writings, it must reflect what “they claim today” right? But if it doesn’t, then the chances are it’s definitely AUTHENTIC especially when it’s the BIG NAMES of FIRST CHRISTIANITY.

 

A noteworthy point regarding St. Ambrose of Milan for Protestants may also be this:

This must be strangest fact of all namely: Did you know that St. Ambrose of Milan is the PATRON SAINT for VENERATION of VIRGIN MARY but he himself DOES NOT have one PRAYER to VIRGIN MARY in ANY OF HIS WRITINGS [To quote from Page 1162 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook with more details there]:

 

‘… Can you imagine that the PATRON SAINT for VENERATION of MARY has NO PRAYERS to VIRGIN MARY at all (please read that again) …’

He was awarded the “Patron” title for this aspect solely because he wrote about the “VIRGINITY” of “MARY” and nothing more. Can you see it?

 

This itself is a GOOD INDICATOR that the ROMAN CATHOLICS or other ORTHODOX  did NOT tamper with these ANCIENT WRITINGS because it would have been more advantageous to ADD in PRAYERS to VIRGIN MARY or equivalent to even St. Ambrose’s writings but such a thing DOES NOT EXIST. In fact, tampering with an ancient manuscript is almost impossible even today as the DATING of the INK ADDED or other factors would easily REVEAL it to a KEEN EYE especially with MODERN TECHNIQUES (even on COPYISTS Manuscripts which are ancient or compared against other copies from other traditions), can you “reallysee it?

 

That’s why St. Ambrose of Milan is also one of the APPROVED CHURCH FATHERS mentioned in the FIRST LUTHERAN FATHER’S BOOK of CONCORD (the “First Protestant Fathers”) and is also VENERATED in the ANGLICAN COMMUNION as well as the LUTHERAN CHURCH.

 

 

  1. iv) In light of such an “orthodox possibility” from Ambrose of Milan’s Writings, we at least consider it as a POSSIBILITY of DOCTRINE (as he could be right) to be SAFE SCRIPTURALLY.

The common objection that “how could the Protestant Reformers or your local Church be wrong regarding such Doctrines?” is easily explained to any Protestant simply because they can believe that GOD NEVER CORRECTED the PRAYERS to VIRGIN MARY for at least a THOUSAND YEARS (between 500 AD to 1500 AD) where there was certainly NO PROTESTANT type of CHRISTIANITY at all.

In short, if GOD CAN ALLOW SUCH AN ERROR, what’s the BIG DEAL of ANY OF THE MODERN ERRORS  (if St. Ambrose of Milan’s writings reflect the TRUE FIRST ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY INTERPRETATION of it?)

If God can save a CHRISTIANITY (between 500 AD to 1500 AD) which only had a PRAYER TO VIRGIN MARY TYPE or even with any other MODERN ERROR, He can save ANY CHRISTIAN with ANY ERROR too (LET GOD DECIDE). So, that’s WHY I consider these POSSIBILITIES to be SAFER.

 

Regarding this “AFTERLIFE or SPIRIT WORLD Salvation POSSIBILITY (not Doctrine as you can see it’s difficult as even St. Augustine didn’t believe in “Calvinism’s Sola Fide” on this aspect but is saved too, right? For details regarding this please see around Page 1792 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ) I have discussed say in detail in Pages 1600 to 1671 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook especially with the “Shepherd of Hermas” Writing focus.

 

3) St. Ambrose of Milan’s DOCTRINE regarding the meaning of the “Last Penny” phrase refers to the LAKE OF FIRE CONTEXT for a POSSIBLE NON-ELECT SALVATION

 

“… Here is the magistrate and the judge that shows you the one who showed the accuser; and it shows when He will be revealed: “In the day, is it said, where God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Rom., II, 16). This judge, therefore, is Jesus Christ, through whom are repeated secret faults and inflicted the punishment of evil deeds. You want to know that Christ is this judge who delivers to the executor and throws in prison? question him; or rather read what he says in the Gospel: “Take it and cast it into darkness outside” (Matt. xxxiii. 13, Matthew 25:30, Matthew 8:12). He also showed his executioners in another passage, where He says, “It will be the same at the end of time: the angels will come to separate the wicked from the righteous, and throw them into the blazing furnace. weeping and gnashing of teeth “(Matt, XIII, 49ffq). It remains to be seen now what the figure of the obole means. And it seems that the name of this familiar object expresses the mystery of a spiritual sense. Indeed, as one pays his debt by returning the money, and as the title to the interest is extinguished only when the whole amount of the capital is paid until the last denier, whatever the mode of payment, of it is by the compensation of charity and other works, or by some satisfaction, that the penalty of sin is extinguished. Nor is it without reason that he did not mention in this place, as elsewhere, two pieces of copper (Lc, XXI, 2), an ace (Matt., X, 29), nor a denier (Ib., XX, 2), but an obole; for the transfer of an obole29 is a kind of exchange, where one puts one thing in sign of the acquittal of another. Likewise here: either the wrong is redeemed at the price of charity, or the punishment diminished according to the appreciation of the wrong. Now it is the custom, as we remember, to give a bath to the baths: by presenting it, everyone obtains the faculty of bathing there; so, here, to be purified, because the sin of each is purified by the kind of transaction described above. On the other hand, the guilty person is tortured and tortured as long as he has not served the sentence of the error committed. …”– Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:58 – 59)

 

Source:

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/luke-commentary/ambrose-on-luke-12

 

or this

 

“… I came to set the earth on fire, and what is my will, if not that finally it lights up? [Luke 12:49] I must be baptized with a baptism, and what is my torment as long as it is not accomplished! ” Higher up, He has kept us vigilant, waiting at all times for the coming of the Lord Savior, lest by slackening, by negligence, by differing from day to day his work, such, preceded by the day of the future judgment or by his own death, lose the reward of his management. It was addressed to all, in the form of a general precept; but the theme of the following comparison seems to be proposed to the bishops, that is to say, to the bishops, to let them know that they will have to undergo a severe punishment later, if, occupied with the pleasures of the century, they neglected to govern the house of the Lord and the people entrusted to them. But as the profit is thin, and the merit is low, when it is the fear of the punishment which prevents from going astray, since the charity and the love have a superior dignity, the Lord sharpens our zeal to deserve its favor and we are inflamed with the desire to acquire God, saying, “I have come to set fire to the earth,” not certainly the fire that consumes the goods, but the one that produces the good will, which makes the vases of and from the house of the Lord, consuming the hay and the straw (I Cor. iii. 12ff., 1 Corinthians 3:11 – 15), devouring all the gangue of the age, amassed by worldly pleasure, the work of the flesh that is to perish;…  They have thus taught with evidentness what is the action of this fire, which enlightens the intimate of the heart. For this reason perhaps the Lord will come into the fire (see Is., LXVI, 15; 16): to consume all the vices at the moment of the resurrection, to fill by his presence the desires of each one, and to project the light on merits and mysteries….” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, Commentary on Luke XII, Verses Luke 12:49 – 50)

 

Source:

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/luke-commentary/ambrose-on-luke-12

 

 

St. Ambrose of Milan’s quote below seems to show the POSSIBILITY that “some” (if not all) may be SAVED AFTER the FINAL LAKE OF FIRE JUDGMENT [to quote from Page 1231 onward of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook]:

 

‘… “OUR SAVIOUR has appointed TWO KINDS of RESURRECTION in the APOCALYPSE. ‘Blessed is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION,’ for such COME TO GRACE WITHOUT JUDGMENT. As FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT COME TO THE FIRST, but are reserved unto the SECOND RESURRECTION, THESE SHALL BE DISCIPLINED UNTIL THEIR APPOINTED TIMES, BETWEEN THE FIRST AND THE SECOND RESURRECTION; or, if they should not have fulfilled them then, they shall remain still longer in punishment … ‘ – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD)

 

Source: https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ambrose

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comment: St. Ambrose of Milan’s quote is so important that it has even affected Roman Catholicism, example quote:

“… In spite of his great status as a Doctor of the Church, however, the theology of Ambrose has at least two unique features that have basically been unacceptable to church dogma for many centuries but which are attracting more attention today. First, it teaches universal salvation. Ambrose was a Christian universalist; he believed that all people would eventually achieve salvation: “For now, since all do not believe, all do not seem to be in subjection. But when all have believed and done the will of God, then Christ will be all and in all.”[5] Perhaps because he was able to read Greek, Ambrose’s theology was significantly influenced by that of Origen (c.185-c.254) and Didymus the Blind (c.313-c.398), two other early Christian universalists. Needless to say, universal salvation is more acceptable to the Catholic Church today, as its new, post-Vatican II Catechism says: “In hope, the Church prays for ‘all men to be saved’.”[6] …”

 

Source: https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ambrose

 

 

That same quote may be found in link below (in his main Book, not a disputed source):

“… 182. Let us then shortly sum up our conclusion on the whole matter. A unity of power puts aside all idea of a degrading subjection. His giving up of power, and His victory as conqueror won over death, have not lessened His power. Obedience works out subjection. Christ has taken obedience upon Himself, obedience even to taking on Him our flesh, the cross even to gaining our salvation. Thus where the work lies, there too is the Author of the work. When therefore, all things have become subject to Christ, through Christ’s obedience, so that all bend their knees in His name, then He Himself will be all in all. For now, since all do not believe, all do not seem to be in subjection. But when all have believed and done the will of God, then Christ will be all and in all. And when Christ is all and in all, then will God be all and in all; for the Father abides ever in the Son. How, then, is He shown to be weak, Who redeemed the weak? 183. And lest you should by chance attribute to the weakness of the Son, that it is written, that God has put all things in subjection under Him; learn that He has Himself brought all things into subjection to Himself, for it is written: Our conversation is in heaven, from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus, Who shall change our vile body that it may be fashioned like His glorious body according to the working, whereby He is able to subdue all things unto Himself. Philippians 3:20-21 You have learned, therefore, that He can subdue all things unto Himself according to the working of His Godhead. …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD)

Source (  Exposition of the Christian Faith, Book V, Chapter 15 ):
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/34045.htm

Note: St. Ambrose of Milan is quite confident of his “universalism” (or non-Elect Salvation quotes in some way to be true) as he writes this as part of the  “Christian Doctrine” in his Book titled “… Exposition of the Christian Faith, Book V, Chapter 15 …” above where he must be summarizing what the ‘Common Christian Belief’ was even before St. Augustine of Hippo whom even he converted.

 

More regarding St. Ambrose of Milan in link below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrose

These quotes from St. Ambrose of Milan I have commented already in Pages 1748 to 1758 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook if keen.

 

Now here is St. Ambrose of Milan’s description further that “after that bath” (referring to the “Last Penny” Context as described earlier) some TYPE of UNIVERSALISM beyond this NON-ELECT SALVATION seems to be POSSIBLE as per his “own words” below in the “Protestant Philip Schaff’s source” below too: Context for Romans 5:18 – 19 and Romans 3:19 – 26 – Judgment Day as well [emphasis Mine throughout]:

 

“…  But again, lest anyone should be deterred, and say that an increase of sin was caused by the Law, and that the Law not only did not profit but was even injurious, he has a consolation for his solicitude, because although by the Law sin abounded, grace did much more abound [Romans 5:20]. And now let us consider the meaning of this. … Hence too the Lord came in obedience that He might loose the knot of disobedience and of man’s transgression. And so, as by disobedience sin entered, so by obedience sin was remitted. Wherefore the Apostle also says, For as by one man’s disobedience [THE]* MANY were made SINNERS, so by the obedience of one shall [THE] MANY be made righteous [Romans 5:19] … and then this Law succeeded, that by its written precepts it might cite us before it, and every mouth be stopped, and all the world become guilty before God [Romans 3:19]which has made ALL SINNERS [Romans 3:23], would seem to have been injurious… But when the Lord Jesus came, He FORGAVE ALL MEN that sin which none could escape [Romans 3:22], and blotted out the handwriting against us by the shedding of His own Blood. This then is the APOSTLE’s MEANING; sin abounded by the Law, but grace abounded by Jesus [Romans 5:20]; for AFTER that the WHOLE WORLD became GUILTY [Romans 3:19], He TOOK AWAY the SIN of the WHOLE WORLD, as John bore witness, saying: Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world [John 1:29]. Wherefore let no man glory in works, for by his works no man shall be justified, for he that is just hath a FREE GIFT, for he is justified by the Bath. It is faith then which delivers by the blood of Christ, for Blessed is the man to whom sin is remitted, and, PARDON GRANTED…”   – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD, LETTER LXXII, AMBROSE TO CONSTANTIUS, Points 7, 8, 10, 11  )

 

Protestant Source:

https://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/ambrose_letters_08_letters71_80.htm

or

This ‘same letter’ can also be found in the “Roman Catholic” source too (so it’s authentic):

https://www.tertullian.org/fathers/ambrose_letters_08_letters71_80.htm

 

*Koine Greek (Original Scripture): [the many] and not [many]. ‘The Many’ points to everyone except Adam (the ‘one man’s disobedience’) as the sin was Imputed from him while likewise Christ’s Work (the ‘One Man’s Obedience’) Imputes the same ‘The Many’ [All Men who were made sinners due to Adam] to be ‘made righteous again’ (Romans 5:19). Adam is included as the Previous Verse in Romans 5:18 specifies this Work of Christ as applying to ALL MEN or the WHOLE HUMAN RACE . [ A possible interpretation based on this]

 

3) Did “Other Church Fathers” also view this Punishments till the “Last Penny” Verses likewise? Examples:

 

  1. i) St. Clement of Alexandria

 

“… And OTHER SHEEP I have which are NOT OF THIS FOLD; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. …” (John 10:16, NKJV)

 

St. Clement of Alexandria seems to view the SHEEP from OTHER FOLD (i.e. OTHER SHEEP PEN) to refer to a POSSIBLE NON-ELECT SALVATION NOT belonging to HIS CHURCH (BRIDE) for FALLEN CHRISTIANS CONTEXT (who could be part of the “nations of those who are saved” mentioned in the Book of Revelation* [please see end after this quote for these Verses] together with the non-Christians who have Practiced the #CharityDoctrine toward Christians as part of the SURPRISED SHEEP of the NATIONS as Matthew 25:31 – 46 too can be INFERRED LIKEWISE proving such an understanding was found within FIRST CHRISTIANITY too), to quote:

 

“… “Accordingly the believer, through great discipline, divesting himself of the passions, passes to the mansion which is better than the former one, viz., to the greatest torment, taking with him the characteristic of repentance from the sins he has committed after baptism. He is tortured then still more–not yet or not quite attaining what he sees others to have acquired. Besides, he is also ashamed of his transgressions. The greatest torments, indeed, are assigned to the believer. For God’s righteousness is good, and His goodness is righteous. And though the punishments cease in the course of the completion of the expiation and purification of each one, yet those have very great and permanent grief who are found worthy of the OTHER FOLD, on account of not being along with those that have been glorified through righteousness.” Clement of Alexandria, Stromata, 6:14 (post A.D. 202). …” – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria, Head of the First Oldest Bible School in all of Christianity, the Cathecathical School At Alexandria, Teacher of Origen  (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD, The Stromata (Book VI) )

Source: https://www.scripturecatholic.com/purgatory/

“… Chapter 14. Degrees of Glory in Heaven

Such, according to David, rest in the holy hill of God, in the Church far on high, in which are gathered the philosophers of God, who are Israelites indeed, who are pure in heart, in whom there is no guile; John 1:47Matthew 5:8 who do not remain in the seventh seat, the place of rest, but are promoted, through the active beneficence of the divine likeness, to the heritage of beneficence which is the eighth grade; devoting themselves to the pure vision of insatiable contemplation.

And other sheep there are also, says the Lord, which are not of this fold John 10:16 — deemed worthy of another fold and mansion, in proportion to their faithBut My sheep hear My voiceJohn 10:27 understanding gnostically the commandments. And this is to be taken in a magnanimous and worthy acceptation, along with also the recompense and accompaniment of works. So that when we hear, Your faith has saved you, we do not understand Him to say absolutely that those who have believed in any way whatever shall be saved, unless also works follow. But it was to the Jews alone that He spoke this utterance, who kept the law and lived blamelessly, who wanted only faith in the Lord. No one, then, can be a believer and at the same time be licentious; but though he quit the flesh, he must put off the passions, so as to be capable of reaching his own mansion.

Now to know is more than to believe, as to be dignified with the highest honour after being saved is a greater thing than being saved. Accordingly the believer, through great discipline, divesting himself of the passions, passes to the mansion which is better than the former one, viz., to the greatest torment, taking with him the characteristic of repentance from the sins he has committed after baptism. He is tortured then still more — not yet or not quite attaining what he sees others to have acquired. Besides, he is also ashamed of his transgressions. The greatest torments, indeed, are assigned to the believer. For God’s righteousness is good, and His goodness is righteous. And though the punishments cease in the course of the completion of the expiation and purification of each one, yet those have very great and permanent grief who are found worthy of the other fold, on account of not being along with those that have been glorified through righteousness. …”  – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria, Head of the First Oldest Bible School in all of Christianity, the Cathecathical School At Alexandria, Teacher of Origen  (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD, The Stromata (Book VI) )

Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/02106.htm

 

Comments:

  1. The Roman Catholic sources use this to prove the PURGATORY CONCEPT limiting this to believers only but actually St. Clement of Alexandria seems to point to the FALLLEN CHRISTIAN case here as ‘… The greatest torments, indeed, are assigned to the believer. …’ in his words seem to indicate to POINT to the MANSION CONTEXT (some type of INHERITANCE CONTEXT) but may NOT be limiting NON-ELECT SALVATION.

 

  1. We know this because St. Clement of Alexandria (no point quoting him for this POST MORTEM Salvation Context unless we quote him for his “other quotes” on POST-MORTEM SALVATION) which seems to include ANYONE in HADES (Hell now) too BUT of course in contrast to the NO MANSION (NO INHERITANCE of the KINGDOM Context as per case above only for those of faith), then these BEING SAVED CONTEXT AFTER THESE AFTERLIFE JUDGMENTS must thus be a NON-ELECT SALVATION only ESPECIALLY FROM THIS SAME BOOK 6 of STROMATA too:

 

“… “it is evident that those, too, who were outside of the Law, having lived rightly, in consequence of the peculiar’ nature of the voice, though they are in HADES and in ward, on hearing the voice of the Lord, whether that of His own person or that acting through His apostles, with all speed turned and believed. For we remember that the Lord is “the power of God,” and power can never be weak. So I think it is demonstrated that the God being good, and the Lord powerful, they save with a righteousness and equality which extend to ALL that TURN to Him, WHETHER HERE or ELSEWHERE. For it is not here alone that the active power of God is beforehand, but it is EVERYWHERE and is ALWAYS at WORK…” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c.150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 6, Chapter VI)

Translation Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html

 

According to St. Clement of Alexandria (he doesn’t seem to limit this occurrence as a one time event or only to those who never heard the Gospel nor to Fallen Christians only but builds on it) in his own words from the above as follows:

 

No Time Limit for Salvation from Hades —–> Focus Phrase from the above: “always at work

 

No Physical nor any other limit for Christ Saving from Hades ——> Focus Phrase from the above: “everywhere and is always at work”.

 

I purposedly used a different translation source as this quote can be found even in the “Roman Catholic” sources above in those specified chapters (just to show yet again that the fact remains the same regardless of source).

 

 

 

 

 

  1. St. Clement of Alexandria’s certainly believed in some type of NON-ELECT SALVATION TYPE for sure based on his “other quotes” below which strengthens our claim more thanpurgatory only for Christians’ as argued by the half-quoting Roman Catholic sources earlier, examples:

“… Chapter 6. The Gospel Was Preached to Jews and Gentiles in Hades.

…  Wherefore the Lord preached the Gospel to those in Hades. Accordingly the Scripture says, Hades says to Destruction, We have not seen His form, but we have heard His voice. It is not plainly the place, which, the words above say, heard the voice, but those who have been put in Hades, and have abandoned themselves to destruction, as persons who have thrown themselves voluntarily from a ship into the sea. They, then, are those that hear the divine power and voice. For who in his senses can suppose the souls of the righteous and those of sinners in the same condemnation, charging Providence with injustice?

But how? Do not [the Scriptures] show that the Lord preached the Gospel to those that perished in the flood, or rather had been chained, and to those kept in ward and guard? 1 Peter 3:19-20 And it has been shown also, in the second book of the Stromata, that the apostles, following the Lord, preached the Gospel to those in Hades. For it was requisite, in my opinion, that as here, so also there, the best of the disciples should be imitators of the Master; so that He should bring to repentance those belonging to the Hebrews, and they the Gentiles; that is, those who had lived in righteousness according to the Law and Philosophy, who had ended life not perfectly, but sinfully. For it was suitable to the divine administration, that those possessed of greater worth in righteousness, and whose life had been pre-eminent, on repenting of their transgressions, though found in another place, yet being confessedly of the number of the people of God Almighty, should be saved, each one according to his individual knowledge.

And, as I think, the Saviour also exerts His might because it is His work to save; which accordingly He also did by drawing to salvation those who became willing, by the preaching [of the Gospel], to believe in Him, wherever they were. If, then, the Lord descended to Hades for no other end but to preach the Gospel, as He did descend; it was either to preach the Gospel to all or to the Hebrews only. If, accordingly, to all, then all who believe shall be saved, although they may be of the Gentiles, on making their profession there; since God’s punishments are saving and disciplinary, leading to conversion, and choosing rather the repentance them the death of a sinner; and especially since souls, although darkened by passions, when released from their bodies, are able to perceive more clearly, because of their being no longer obstructed by the paltry flesh. … And it is well said by the Shepherd*, They went down with them therefore into the water, and again ascended. But these descended alive, and again ascended alive. But those who had fallen asleep, descended dead, but ascended alive. Further the Gospel Matthew 27:52 says, that many bodies of those that slept arose,— plainly as having been translated to a better state. There took place, then, a universal movement and translation through the economy of the Saviour. … ” — it is evident that those, too, who were outside of the Law, having lived rightly, in consequence of the peculiar nature of the voice, though they are in Hades and in ward1 Peter 3:19 on hearing the voice of the Lord, whether that of His own person or that acting through His apostles, with all speed turned and believed. For we remember that the Lord is the power of God1 Corinthians 1:24 and power can never be weak. … So I think it is demonstrated that the God being good, and the Lord powerful, they save with a righteousness and equality which extend to all that turn to Him, whether here or elsewhere. For it is not here alone that the active power of God is beforehand, but it is everywhere and is always at work. Accordingly, in the Preaching of Peter, the Lord says to the disciples after the resurrection, I have chosen you twelve disciples, judging you worthy of me, whom the Lord wished to be apostles, having judged them faithful, sending them into the world to the men on the earth, that they may know that there is one God, showing clearly what would take place by the faith of Christ; that they who heard and believed should be saved; and that those who believed not, after having heard, should bear witness, not having the excuse to allege, We have not heard. What then? Did not the same dispensation obtain in Hades, so that even there, all the souls, on hearing the proclamation, might either exhibit repentance, or confess that their punishment was just, because thebelieved not? And it were the exercise of no ordinary arbitrariness, for those who had departed before the advent of the Lord (not having the Gospel preached to them, and having afforded no ground from themselves, in consequence of believing or not) to obtain either salvation or punishment. ”  – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria, Head of the First Oldest Bible School in all of Christianity, the Cathecathical School At Alexandria, Teacher of Origen  (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD, The Stromata (Book VI) )Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/02106.htm

Note: In this quote, St. Clement of Alexandria clearly believes that

 

  1. a) this SALVATION from HADES is “… everywhere and is always at work …”

 

  1. b) the SHEPHERD refers to the SHEPHERD of HERMAS quote regarding this aspect in the above which is detailed in Page 1033 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook .

 

  1. St. Clement of Alexandria’s certainly believed in some type of UNIVERSALISM or NON-ELECT SALVATION TYPE by his “other” quotes here too based on this Verse

 

“… and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world [Kosmos]. …” – apostle John (1 John 2:2, NASB)

 

“… Ver. 2. “And not only for our sins,”–that is for those of the faithful,–is the Lord the propitiator, does he say, “but also for the whole world.” (1 John 2:2) He, indeed, saves all; but some [He saves], converting them by punishments; others, however, who follow voluntarily [He saves] with dignity of honour; so “that every knee should bow to Him, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth;” that is, angels, men, and souls that before His advent have departed from this temporal life. …” – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria, Head of the First Oldest Bible School in all of Christianity, the Cathecathical School At Alexandria, Teacher of Origen  (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-fragments.html

 

*Propitiation = Also includes the Context of Turning Away or Ending of Wrath in Judgment making this Hope of Mercy Cancelling a Judgment Sentence later by Triumphing over it as Prophesied by the First Christianity Scripture of ‘Apocalypse of Peter’ as a POSSIBLE Biblical Hope.

 

 

 

 

Or this too:

 

“… Chapter 2. The Son the Ruler and Saviour of All

… To Him is placed in subjection all the host of angels and gods [Psalm 82]; He, the paternal Word, exhibiting a the holy administration for Him who put [all] in subjection to Him. Wherefore also all men are His; some through knowledge, and others not yet so; and some as friends, some as faithful servants, some as servants merely… For by an ancient and divine order the angels are distributed among the nations. But the glory of those who believe is the Lord’s portion. For either the Lord does not care for all men; and this is the case either because He is unable (which is not to be thought, for it would be a proof of weakness), or because He is unwilling, which is not the attribute of a good being. And He who for our sakes assumed flesh capable of suffering, is far from being luxuriously indolent. Or He does care for all, which is befitting for Him who has become Lord of all. For He is Saviour; not [the Saviour] of some, and of others not. But in proportion to the adaptation possessed by each, He has dispensed His beneficence both to Greeks and Barbarians, even to those of them that were predestinated, and in due time called, the faithful and elect. Nor can He who called all equally, and assigned special honours to those who have believed in a specially excellent way, ever envy any. Nor can He who is the Lord of all, and serves above all the will of the good and almighty Father, ever be hindered by another. But neither does envy touch the Lord, who without beginning was impassible; nor are the things of men such as to be envied by the Lord. But it is another, he whom passion has touched, who envies. And it cannot be said that it is from ignorance that the Lord is not willing to save humanity, because He knows not how each one is to be cared for. For ignorance applies not to the God who, before the foundation of the world, was the counsellor of the Father. For He was the Wisdom in which the Sovereign God delighted. Proverbs 8:30 For the Son is the power of God, as being the Father’s most ancient Word before the production of all things, and His Wisdom. He is then properly called the Teacher of the beings formed by Him. Nor does He ever abandon care for men, by being drawn aside from pleasure, who, having assumed flesh, which by nature is susceptible of suffering, trained it to the condition of impassibility.

And how is He Saviour and Lord, if not the Saviour and Lord of all? But He is the Saviour of those who have believed, because of their wishing to know; and the Lord of those who have not believed, till, being enabled to confess him, they obtain the peculiar and appropriate boon which comes by Him.

…” – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria, Head of the First Oldest Bible School in all of Christianity, the Cathecathical School At Alexandria, Teacher of Origen  (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD)

Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/02107.htm

 

 

 

  1. ii) St. Melito of Sardis

 

Remember Blessed St. Melito of Sardis whom we quoted earlier (around Page 1728 onward of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ) where he was used by God to determine the Old Testament canon for CHRISTIANS where a particular book in concern which is included seems to be “Wisdom” which Protestants vehemently disagree.

 

Let’s look at the “other side of coin” which I think is a strong argument that St. Melito of Sardis seemed to have included WISDOM as part of the Old Testament Canon, example discussion:

 

“… St. Melito of Sardis & Sola Scriptura

His significance in the debate over Sola Scriptura is that the oldest list of the books of the Old Testament made by a Christian is attributed to him. This quote is often put forward by Protestants as evidence that their trimmed-down canon of Scripture (which doesn’t include the deuterocanonical books) is the original Christian Old Testament canon. This is an important point in their defense of Sola Scriptura because if Protestants have the wrong canon their entire proposition fails. One unknown but necessary commandment of Scripture is enough to turn Sola Scriptura on its head. Here’s St. Melito of Sardis on the Old Testament canon:

 

“I accordingly proceeded to the East, and went to the very spot where the things in question were preached and took place; and, having made myself accurately acquainted with the books of the Old Testament, I have set them down below, and here with send you the list. Their names are as follows:- The five books of Moses — Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Joshua, Judges, Ruth, the four books of Kings, the two of Chronicles, the book of the Psalms of David, the Proverbs of Solomon, the Book of Wisdom also, Ecclesiastes, the Song of Songs, Job, the books of the prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, of the twelve contained in a single book, Daniel, Ezekiel, Esdras.” – St. Melito of Sardis, The Book of Extracts

There are several problems with Protestants using this passage in support of their canon of Scripture, though. Here are a few:

The list does include one deuterocanonical book — the Wisdom of Solomon.

The list doesn’t include Esther, Nehemiah, or Lamentations (although the latter two are assumed to be included within Esdras and Jeremiah, respectively), all part of the Protestant Old Testament.

There is no indication that the books Melito was reading were part of the Masoretic textual tradition espoused by Protestants. In fact, the evidence is in favor of Melito’s books being part of the Septuagint textual tradition, including the fact that Nehemiah and Lamentations may be included in Esdras and Jeremiah; that Melito refers to the books by their Septuagint names (4 books of Kings = 1 Kings, 2 Kings, 1 Samuel, & 2 Samuel; Esdras = Ezra; etc.); and, of course, the fact that Melito’s language was Greek, not Hebrew. For anyone who has compared the Septuagint with the Masoretic, the problem here is plain: there are verses and even large sections of books (such as in Isaiah, for example) that differ significantly between the two textual traditions.

Melito probably made a mistake in choosing his source. The list of Old Testament books he gives here, which he says he became familiar with during his travel to the East, he probably got from the Palestinian Jews. Melito was probably unaware that the Jews had already begun to trim down their Bible at that point, largely as a reaction against Christians.

In the end, his list disagrees with both the current Orthodox Old Testament canon as well as the Protestant canon, and this does much more to undermine the Protestant position than the Orthodox. The Orthodox position does not hinge on any given book or verse; our Faith is preserved in the Tradition of our Church handed down through each generation of believers. The Protestant position breaks with one misplaced, misunderstood, or mistranslated word of Scripture.

 

And, to conclude, there’s absolutely no indication in any of St. Melito’s surviving writings that he believed in Sola Scriptura.

 

If you’re interested in reading the writings of St. Melito of Sardis, you may do so here.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/melito.html

 

[Note: There has been some contention over whether St. Melito lists Wisdom as a separate book or is giving another name for the book of Proverbs. The Greek phrase in question here is “Σολομῶνος Παροιμίαι ἡ καὶ Σοφία” which, literally translated, means “Solomon’s Proverbs, Wisdom too.” Scholars of Greek language have largely thrown out the propisition, first put forward by Protestant translators in the 19th century, that Melito intended to say “Solomon’s Proverbs, also [known as] Wisdom,” as the Greek would be better rendered in the plural as “Σολομῶνος Παροιμίαι αἱ καὶ Σοφία” if this were the case. As it stands, the proposition that Melito intended to refer to the same book by two different titles can safely be discarded as the product of misguided Protestant apologetics. He is clearly referring to two distinct books.]

 

(slightly edited from original; originally published at Pious Fabrications on 27 December 2009)

 

Source:

 

http://orthodox-apologetics.blogspot.com/2010/02/st-melito-of-sardis-sola-scriptura.html

 

Why is this BOOK of WISDOM interesting? [Please note that this WISDOM of SOLOMON BOOK is also APPROVED by ST. ATHANASIUS the GREAT as listed together with the SHEPHERD of HERMAS too as I have discussed say in Page 91 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook]

 

  1. a) BOOK of WISDOM contains POSSIBLE NON-ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY Verses

 

“… 23 But thou hast mercy upon all [Compare: Romans 11:32]; for thou canst do all things, and winkest at the sins of men, because they should amend. 24 For thou lovest all the things that are, and abhorrest nothing which thou hast made: for never wouldest thou have made any thing, if thou hadst hated it. 25 And how could any thing have endured, if it had not been thy will? or been preserved, if not called by thee? 26 But thou sparest all: for they are thine, O Lord, thou lover of souls. …” (Wisdom of Solomon 11:23 – 26, King James Bible Version, KJV)

 

Source: https://m.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Wisdom-of-Solomon-Chapter-11/

 

 

God’s Enemies will be Saved from All Evil Post-Final Judgment and after they Confess to Him (Philippians 2:9 – 11, Isaiah 45:23) Who is Saviour of All eventually (1 Timothy 4:10) as He is the ‘Saviour of All’ Context including ‘His Enemies’ is Echoed in “Bible Scripture” below [yes ‘Wisdom of Solomon Book’ is Scripture in All of Christianity except to some protestants from 1500s onward) and SO IT IS POSSIBLE, right?:

 

“… For he that turned himself toward it was not saved by the thing that he saw, but by Thee, that art the SAVIOUR OF ALL. And in this thou madest Thine enemies confess, that it is thou who deliverest from all evil: …” (Wisdom of Solomon 16:7 – 8, KJV Compare with ‘Saviour of All Men especially believers in 1 Timothy 4:10)

 

Source:

 

https://m.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Wisdom-of-Solomon-Chapter-16/

 

  1. b) BOOK of WISDOM contains God Quotes (if Scripture) the Context of “… I WILL GIVE IN MY HOUSE And WITHIN MY WALLS A PLACE …” (in Isaiah 56:5) as follows:

 

“… [14] And BLESSED IS THE EUNUCH, which with his hands hath wrought no iniquity, nor imagined wicked things against God: for UNTO HIM SHALL BE GIVEN THE SPECIAL GIFT OF FAITH, and an INHERITANCE IN THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD more acceptable to his mind. …” (Wisdom of Solomon 3:14, KJV)

Source:  http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/text/wisdom.html

 

Another related Quote:

 

“… [1] BETTER IT IS TO HAVE NO CHILDREN, AND TO HAVE VIRTUE: for the MEMORIAL THEREOF IS IMMORTAL: because it is known with God, and with men. [2] When it is present, men take example at it; and when it is gone, they desire it: it weareth a crown, and triumpheth for ever, having gotten the victory, STRIVING FOR UNDEFILED REWARDS. ….” (Wisdom of Solomon 4:1 – 2, KJV)

Source:  http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/text/wisdom.html

 

 

 

 

 

Compare:

 

“… For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves EUNUCHS FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN’S SAKE. He who is ABLE TO ACCEPT IT, LET HIM ACCEPT IT.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 19:12, NKJV)

This is Written in the ‘Context of Final Salvation‘ and ‘God’s Righteousness to be Revealed’:

“… 1Thus SAYS THE LORD: “Keep justice, and do righteousness, For MY SALVATION IS ABOUT TO COME, And My RIGHTEOUSNESS TO BE REVEALED. 2Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,

And keeps his hand from doing any evil.” 3Do not let the son of the foreigner Who has joined himself to the Lord Speak, saying, “The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”; NOR LET THE EUNUCH SAY, “Here I am, a dry tree.”4For THUS SAYS THE LORD: “TO THE EUNUCHS who keep my sabbaths, And CHOOSE WHAT PLEASES ME, And hold fast My covenant, 5Even to them I WILL GIVE IN MY HOUSE And WITHIN MY WALLS A PLACE AND A NAME BETTER THAN THAT OF SONS AND DAUGHTERS; I will give [a]them AN EVERLASTING NAME That SHALL NOT BE CUT OFF. …” (Isaiah 56:1 – 5, NKJV)

 

Note: The Promises in these particular Set of Verses is “not” for every believer at that time even but only toward “EUNUCHS”.

 

The phrase “… I WILL GIVE IN MY HOUSE And WITHIN MY WALLS A PLACE …” = Seem to Point to a “special Level of Heavenly Inheritance” above the usual one given to other saved “… SONS AND DAUGHTERS; …”

 

The phrase “… I WILL GIVE IN MY HOUSE And WITHIN MY WALLS … And A NAME …” = Seem to Point to a “special Level of Title/Rank” above the usual one given to other saved “… SONS AND DAUGHTERS; …”

 

The phrase “… I will give [a]them AN EVERLASTING NAME That SHALL NOT BE CUT OFF. …” means their above than usual Reward and Name in His Kingdom than the usual “… Sons and daughters …” is “not” a temporary reward nor a temporaryNAME GIVEN BY GOD” but a permanent and “EVERLASTING” one.

 

Please also notice the first Verse where God Instructs NOT just Holiness but “JUSTICE” too in this phrase “… 1Thus SAYS THE LORD: “Keep justice, and do righteousness,  …”(Isaiah 56:1) which is the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle according to CHRIST’S OWN DEFINITION in Verses below since #ALMS = #CHARITY = #FREE #GIVING or #SHARING NOT from #ChurchMoney or #Donation only but from #WhatYouHave (#Personal Possessions too) likewise as we have seen in Luke 11:39 – 45 likewise as the DEFINITION of JUSTICE and LOVE of GOD which even TITHES DOES NOT FULFILL is the “ALMS” (sharing and giving for FREE Lifestyle FROM WHAT YOU HAVE), Verses:

 

“… 39Then the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees make the OUTSIDE OF THE CUP and DISH CLEAN, but YOUR INWARD PART is full of [k]GREED and WICKEDNESS. 40FOOLISH ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also? 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. 42“But woe to you Pharisees! For YOU TITHE mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and PASS BY JUSTICE and the LOVE of GOD These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE. 43Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the [m]best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. 44Woe to you, [n]scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like graves which are not seen, and the men who walk over them are not aware of them.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 11:39 – 45, NKJV)

 

These Hidden Mysteries may have been known in the “Priestly” Context too in the Old Covenant itself even before these Verses in Isaiah were Written as per Verses below “in Principle” (or even “allegorically“):

 

“… And the PRIEST ANSWERED David and said, “There is NO COMMON BREAD on hand; but there is HOLY BREAD, if the young men have AT LEAST KEPT THEMSELVES FROM WOMEN.” …” (1 Samuel 21:4, NKJV)

 

“… 1Then I looked, and behold, [a]a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and WITH HIM ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-FOUR THOUSAND, [b]having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. … . 3They SANG AS IT WERE A NEW SONG before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and NO ONE COULD LEARN THAT SONG except the HUNDRED AND FORTY-FOUR THOUSAND who were redeemed from the earth. 4These are the ones WHO WERE NOT DEFILED WITH WOMEN, FOR THEY ARE VIRGINS. These are the ones WHO FOLLOW THE LAMB WHEREVER HE GOES. These were [c]redeemed from among men, being FIRSTFRUITS to God and to the Lamb …” (Revelation 14:1, 3 – 4, NKJV)

 

 

Comments: The “Firstfruits” of Salvation (Holiest lot) itself belongs to a particular 144000 “unmarried Jewish Virgin Men” likewise proving this Context for such “Eunuchs” too above. So can any of your woman pastors in all of Christianity take a place among these 144000? Even we as males cannot unless they were chosen for this being “unmarried Jewish Virgin Men”  only. So we don’t “covet” that which is not ours.

 

 

iii) Pseudo-Chrysostom Manuscript

 

I’m going to quote a part of the Pseudo-Chrysostom collections which seem to explain this NON-ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY well. Again, this PROVES that SUCH AN UNDERSTANDING was in FIRST CHRISTIANITY’s ORTHODOX too and so we may contemplate it likewise (letting God Alone Decide which is it in the end).

 

Before that please note that some of these “Pseudo-Chrysostom” manuscripts were sermons by heretics but the part I’m quoting is ‘in one of the official Catholic Bible Commentary’ as well as we can see below (so either this part could be in agreement of even the Theology at that time or was a true believer’s sermon mixed up with these):

 

“… The righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees are the commandments of Moses; but the commandments of Christ are the fulfilment of that Law. This then is His meaning; Whosoever in addition to the commandments of the Law shall not fulfil My commandments, shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. For those indeed save from the punishment due to transgressors of the Law, but do not bring into the kingdom; but My commandments both deliver from punishment, [p. 174] and bring into the kingdom. But seeing that to break the least commandments and not to keep them are one and the same, why does He say above of him that breaks the commandments, that “he shall be the least in the kingdom of heaven,” and here of him who keeps them not, that he “shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven?” See how to be the least in the kingdom is the same with not entering into the kingdom. For a man to be in the kingdom is not to reign with Christ, but only to be numbered among Christ’s people; what He says then of him that breaks the commandments is, that he shall indeed be reckoned among Christians, yet the least of them. but he who enters into the kingdom, becomes partaker of His kingdom with Christ. Therefore he who does not enter into the kingdom of heaven, shall not indeed have a part of Christ’s glory, yet shall he be in the kingdom of heaven, that is, in the number of those over whom Christ reigns as King of heaven…” – from a Pseudo-Chrysostom Manuscript (c. 4th – 5th Century)

 

Source:

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/matthew-commentary/catena-aurea-on-matthew/chapter-1/chapter-2/chapter-3/chapter-4/chapter-5

What does it mean to ‘not enter the Kingdom of God?’

 

I believe it may mean as follows (all quotes are from the “Pseudo-Chrysostom Manuscript” above) :

 

  1. Who doesn’t enter into His Kingdom?

 

Every non-Christian does not enter into His Kingdom.

 

“… The righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees are the commandments of Moses; but the commandments of Christ are the fulfilment of that Law. This then is His meaning; Whosoever in addition to the commandments of the Law shall not fulfil My commandments, shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. …” – Pseudo-Chrysostom Manuscript (c. 4th – 5th Century)

 

  1. Who both escapes the Punishment (Judgment) and Enters into His Kingdom?

 

Only Christians Enter into His Kingdom.

 

“… For those indeed save from the punishment due to transgressors of the Law, but do not bring into the kingdom; but My commandments both deliver from punishment, [p. 174] and bring into the kingdom. …” – Pseudo-Chrysostom Manuscript (c. 4th – 5th Century)

 

iii. Do the Wicked and Fallen Believers share the Same Fate in the Final Judgment as per Luke 12:46?

 

Yes ‘both undergo the same equal sentence in the Lake of Fire (Gehenna)’:

 

“… But seeing that to break the least commandments and not to keep them are one and the same, why does He say above of him that breaks the commandments, that “he shall be the least in the kingdom of heaven,” and here of him who keeps them not, that he “shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven?” See how to be the least in the kingdom is the same with not entering into the kingdom….” – Pseudo-Chrysostom Manuscript (c. 4th – 5th Century)

 

 

  1. However, there is Hope that ‘all the Fallen Believers and the Wicked’ may be Saved after this Final Gehenna Lake of Fire Judgment

 

“… For a man to be in the kingdom is not to reign with Christ, but only to be numbered among Christ’s people; what He says then of him that breaks the commandments is, that he shall indeed be reckoned among Christians, yet the least of them. but he who enters into the kingdom, becomes partaker of His kingdom with Christ. Therefore he who does not enter into the kingdom of heaven, shall not indeed have a part of Christ’s glory, yet shall he be in the kingdom of heaven, that is, in the number of those over whom Christ reigns as King of heaven…” – Pseudo-Chrysostom Manuscript (c. 4th – 5th Century)

 

 

Edifying Comments:

 

1) The phrases “For a man… only to be numbered among Christ’s people … indeed be reckoned among Christians, yet the least of them …” is certainly referring to a ‘man’ who is NOT considered as a Christian but is Saved after the Lake of Fire Judgment. Why can’t this refer to a Christian? Please read the comments next.

 

2) Every Christian is a Good Soil bearing either a ‘thirty, sixty or a hundred fold’ (Matthew 13:8) which earns their respective Mansion-Abode in the ‘Heavens, Paradise or the New Jerusalem City’ respectively (as expounded in First Christianity in St. Irenaeous of Lyons & Bishop Papias’ Writings) and thus each Christian will Indeed ‘enter into His Kingdom’.

 

So ‘no Christian’ (i.e. the Saved ones who do not undergo the Lake of Fire Judgment, John 5:24) can it refer to the Pseudo-Chrysostom’s phrases of “… [who] shall not indeed have a part of Christ’s glory…”. Indeed, ‘Every Christian’ will ‘Partake of Christ’s Glory according to his works/merit’. Even St. Clement of Alexandria’s quote agrees with this Mystery:

 

“… Conformably, therefore, there are various abodes, according to the worth of those who have believed… . These chosen abodes, which are three, are indicated by the numbers in the Gospel — the thirty, the sixty, the hundred. And the perfect inheritance belongs to those who attain to “a perfect man,” according to the image of the Lord. …” – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria, Head of the First Oldest Bible School in all of Christianity, the Cathecathical School At Alexandria, Teacher of Origen (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD, CHAPTER XIV, Stromata Book 6)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html

 

 

  1. iv) Bishop Theodore of Mopsuestia (c. 350 AD – c. 428 AD)

 

To quote:

“… Photius mentions that Theodore wrote three books on “Persian Magic”, which not only attacked Zoroastrianism, but according to Photius betrayed his “Nestorian” views in the third book, and DEFENDED BELIEF in the FINAL RESTORATION of ALL MEN. …”

Source: http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Theodore_of_Mopsuestia

Long before Martin Luther & the Protestant Reformation, Bishop Theodore of Mopsuestia Denied the ‘Veneration of Mary’ Doctrine which is Legendary as there is NO other Mediator between Man & God other than God in Flesh, Lord Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5), to quote:

“… Theodore “expounded Scripture in all the churches of the East,” says John of Antioch (ibid. ii.2), with some literary license, and adds that in his lifetime Theodore was never arraigned by any of the orthodox. But in a letter to Nestorius (ibid. x.2) John begs him to retract, urging the example of Theodore, who, when in a sermon at Antioch he had said something which gave great and manifest offence, for the sake of peace and to avoid scandal, after a few days as publicly corrected himself. Leontius tells us that the cause of offence was a DENIAL to the VIRGIN MARY of the title THEOTOKOS. So great was the storm that the people threatened to stone the preacher (Cyril of Alexandria Ep. 69). The heretical sects attacked by Theodore showed their resentment in a way less overt, but perhaps more formidable. They tampered with his writings, hoping thus to involve him in heterodox statements (Facund. x.1). …”

Source: http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Theodore_of_Mopsuestia

Please note that Bishop Theodore only apologized after the persuasion of his Bishop friends who were also carried away by the Veneration of Mary by that time not because he agreed with it but out of respect of Christians whom he disagreed with but didn’t intend to break the unity of their churches who were not ready for such depth of the Truth. So, let’s be like Theodore and respect the differences in Doctrine in a church we are attending and not break the Unity by enforcing or preaching the Truth even if we are right simply because they may not be ready for it.

Is Theodore Reliable?

At Most, Theodore’s Nestorianism (in his writings, if true) were CONDEMNED and NOT his Christ Centered Universalism where Nestorianism was an ancient Christian heresy associated with Nestorius (c. 386–c. 451 C.E.), Patriarch of Constantinople, who taught that Christ consisted of two distinct persons (human and divine Logos), rather than a unified person.

How did “other orthodox saints” during or close to his time view him?

To quote:

“The popularity—and later the criticism—of Theodore increased following his death.

Theodoret of Cyrrhus regarded him as a “doctor of the universal church.”

Cyril of Alexandria relates that “We believe as Theodore believed; long live the faith of Theodore!” was a cry often heard in the churches of the East (Ep. 69).

When the bishops of Syria were called on to criticize his view, they reportedly replied: “We had rather be burnt than condemn Theodore” (Ep. 72).

Source: http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Theodore_of_Mopsuestia

In the last line above, I truly admire the Love of God the ancient Great Bishops of the East had for Bishop Theodore as they declared, “… When the bishops of Syria were called on to criticize his view, they reportedly replied: “We had rather be burnt than condemn Theodore” (Ep. 72) …”.

Some Claim that Theodore of Mopsuestia (whose writings have been lost to us) is not a Universalist.

 

Really?

Here are two proofs:

 

The Eternal Hell Theologian Photius Confirms that Theodore of Mopsuestia is a Universalist

 

To Quote:

 

“.. This Theodore is believed to be Theodore of Mopsuestia, since he mentions with approval the heresy of Nestorius, especially in the third book. He also foolishly talks of the restoration of sinners to their former condition.” – Photius (Chapter 81, BIBLIOTHECA OR MYRIOBIBLON)

 

Source: http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/photius_03bibliotheca.htm#4

 

Ancient Historical Writings of Syriac Origin?

To quote:

“… Theodore of Mopsuestia AD 359 to AD 429 said: “The wicked who have committed evil the whole period of their lives shall be punished till they learn that, by continuing in sin, they only continue in misery. And when, by this means, they shall have been brought to fear God, and to regard him with good will, they shall obtain the enjoyment of his grace. For he never would have said, ‘until thou hast paid the uttermost farthing,’ unless we can be released from suffering after having suffered adequately for sin; nor would he have said, ‘he shall be beaten with many stripes,’ and again, ‘he shall be beaten with few stripes,’ unless the punishment to be endured for sin will have an end. …” [Gregorio el Nazianceno, Assemani Bib. Orient. Tom. iii.]

Source:

https://www.triumphofmercy.com/blog/the-duration-of-punishment-5-of-8?view=full#_edn8

 

Another Source:

 

“… Mâr Theodore the Expositor says: ‘Those who have here chosen fair things will receive in the world to come the pleasure of good things with praises; but the wicked who have turned aside to evil things all their life, when they are become ordered in their minds by penalties and the fear that springs from them, and choose good things, and learn how much they have sinned by having persevered in evil things and not in good things, and by means of these things receive the knowledge of the highest doctrine of the fear of God, and become instructed to lay hold of it with a good will, will be deemed worthy of the happiness of the Divine liberality. For He would never have said, “Until thou payest the uttermost farthing,” unless it had been possible for us to be freed from our sins through having atoned for them by paying the penalty; neither would He have said, “he shall be beaten with many stripes,” or “he shall be beaten with few stripes,” unless it were that the penalties, being meted out according to the sins, should finally come to an end.’ These things the Expositor has handed down in his books clearly and distinctly…” (Chapter LX, Book of the Bee)

Source: https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bb/bb60.htm

 

 

 

4) Bible Verses describing Punishments till the “Last Penny” phrase

Compare: The “Prison” till the “Last Penny” seem to refer to the “Gehenna” (Final Hell or Lake of Fire Context) because Christ was talking about that Topic in Verses below:

 

 

“…  22 But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in DANGER of HELL [Gehenna] fire. 23Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into PRISON. 26Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till YOU HAVE PAID THE LAST PENNY. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:22 – 26, NKJV)

 

In another time, Christ uses that same phrase “Till the Last Penny” to refer to the “FIRE” He came to Kindle which is not kindled yet could mean ‘Lake of Fire Context’ too:

 

“… 49“I came to send FIRE on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! … 57“Yes, and why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right? 58When you go with your adversary to the magistrate, make every effort along the way to settle with him, lest he drag you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and the officer throw you into PRISON . 59I tell you, you shall NOT DEPART FROM THERE TILL YOU HAVE PAID THE VERY LASY MITE. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:49, 57 – 59, NKJV)

 

In yet another time CHRIST uses that same phrase “Till the Last Penny” to refer to the “unforgiveness attitude some have” which could mean ‘Lake of Fire or Hades Context’ too:

 

“… 32Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34And his master was angry, and DELIVERED HIM TO THE TORTURERS UNTIL HE SHOULD PAY ALL THAT WAS DUE TO HIM. 35“So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [g]his trespasses. …” – Most Blessed Judge & KING of kings, Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 18:32 – 35, NKJV)

 

Note: please notice that these are three different conversations which may with the Didache quote may point to the fact that ‘not only that receiving money for not needs type of sin’ may merit that Judgment but more things too even possibly point to Hades now and Gehenna later too to be based on this Same Principle of Judgmenttill the last penny’ in which case since the Wicked has “not” good deeds, they pay it (metaphorically) by losing both their “body and soul being destroyed in the Lake of Fire (Gehenna) as Matthew 10:28” points as the PAYING which CHRIST MEANS is Recorded as “… and DELIVERED HIM TO THE TORTURERS UNTIL HE SHOULD PAY ALL THAT WAS DUE TO HIM. …”

 

So, can “Prison” refer to Hades (Hell now)?

 

The Word “PRISON” as a Metaphor to refer to HADES (Hell now) type of Salvation is ‘possible’ based on Verses below (please notice the word “PRISON” carefully in each Verses quoted here, by Christ earlier and also in the Didache as ‘Confinement’ carefully):

 

“… 18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring [f]us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the SPIRITS in PRISON, 20who FORMERLY were DISOBEDIENT, [g]when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.  …” (1 Peter 3:18 – 20, NKJV)

 

Note: The righteous spirits were “not in prison” (but in comfort regions as Abraham’s Bosom as Christ Taught in Luke 16:19 – 31) and the context here refers to “Disobedient” ones which cannot refer to the ‘Old Testament righteous’. The phrase “Formerly Disobedient” can mean that these have repented in the Spirit World and thus are ‘not disobedient’ anymore. Please also notice that they are in ‘the spirit-state’ which can mean that the wicked may be saved eventually in a ‘spirit-state’ only likewise with “no body and no soul”.

 

Also, can “Prison” refer to the Lake of Fire/Gehenna (Final Hell)?

 

At the same time, similarly, the Word “PRISON” as a Metaphor to refer to the Lake of Fire/Gehenna (Final Hell)? type of Salvation is ‘possible’ based on Verses below (please notice the word “PRISON” carefully in each Verses quoted here, by Christ earlier and also in the Didache as ‘Confinement’ carefully):

 

“… 21And it shall come to pass IN THAT DAY, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 22And they shall be gathered together, AS PRISONERS ARE GATHERED IN THE PIT, and shall be SHUT UP IN THE PRISON, and AFTER MANY DAYS shall they be VISITED. …” (Isaiah 24:21 – 22, KJV)

 

Conclusion

In light of all these “First Christianity” Quotes, perhaps one can be “saved” but NOT ENTER HEAVEN too as per “possibleexplanation below:

 

These saved “sheep” of the nations could be part of the “nations of those who are saved” revealed in Verses below 1000 years later after the CHRISTIAN Salvation where even THE BRIDE (CHURCH) seems to be distinctly contrasted in Heaven (“Heavenly Jerusalem“) as opposed to them being saved on that FINAL NEW EARTH only where ONLY those with NAMES in the LAMB’S BOOK of LIFE get to VISIT that FINAL HEAVENLY JERUSALEM which connects to that FINAL NEW EARTH (also implying the ‘possibility’ that there could be some saved on that final New Earth whose names may not be in the Lamb’s Book of Life and hence CANNOT enter into the CITY for if all entered into the city among the saved nations, then this clause seems unnecessary and the gate seems unnecessary unless it FILTERS those among the saved who have THEIR NAMES in the BOOK of LIFE only to ENTER while the rest saved on the NEW EARTH could be regular ones, hence non-Elect Salvation of this type who could have HEALING from the LEAVES of the TREE of LIFE too with earthly resurrection bodies as discussed in other Pages of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ), Verses:

 

“… But THE REST OF THE DEAD DID NOT LIVE AGAIN until the THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED. This is the first resurrection. … 11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. …”1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was NO MORE SEA.  ” … Come, I will show you the [g]BRIDE, the LAMB’S WIFE.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED ME THE [H]GREAT CITY, the [I]HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN from God,  … 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE. …” … In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the TREE OF LIFE, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 20:5, 11 – 15, 21:1, 9 – 10, 24 – 27,  22:2, NKJV)

 

Surprised Sheep Verses:

 

“… 37“Then the RIGHTEOUS WILL ANSWER Him, saying, ‘Lord, When Did We See You Hungry And Feed YOU, or THIRSTY AND GIVE YOU DRINK? 38WHEN DID WE SEE YOU A STRANGER and TAKE YOU IN, OR NAKED AND CLOTHE YOU? 39Or WHEN DID WE SEE YOU SICK, OR in PRISON, AND COME TO YOU?’ 40And THE KING WILL ANSWER and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I SAY TO YOU, INASMUCH AS YOU DID IT TO ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHREN, YOU DID IT TO ME.’ …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 25:37 – 40, NKJV)

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

Mysterious Quotes by St. Melito of Sardis quoted in writing earlier with source but here with image I (please ignore the ‘Roman Catholic image of it as the quotes came without that part’).

 

Mysterious Quotes by St. Melito of Sardis quoted in writing earlier with source but here with image II (please ignore the ‘Roman Catholic image of it as the quotes came without that part’).

 

Mysterious Quotes by St. Melito of Sardis quoted in writing earlier with source but here with image III (please ignore the ‘Roman Catholic image of it as the quotes came without that part’).

 

Mysterious Quotes by St. Melito of Sardis quoted in writing earlier with source but here with image IV (please ignore the ‘Roman Catholic image of it as the quotes came without that part’).

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

Bible Canon – Old Testament part – is Martin Luther right?

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/pfbid0V1Nt2ayTfjC9rFqwPgDqE2qq5aSieG1SB9wz5Qe58PWxR2rGX81abScqVXBqbzvVl

 

Fast Fact: There was “no” 66 Books Bible until the “Protestant Reformation“. Please read this “again”.

 

1) Firstly, I am “not” Roman Catholic but more of a “Protestant” myself and here we are only going to discuss the “Old Testament Canon

 

2) Example Protestant points for 66 books may be seen in link below::

https://answersingenesis.org/the-word-of-god/why-66-books/

 

3) New Testament Canon

 

For the possible more New Testament Books in the First Bibles of Christianity such as the Muratorian Canon (Roman Canon, First Oldest BIBLE in the WEST and all of known Christianity) or the Codex Claromontanus (The FIRST OLDEST Bible CANON in Eastern Church History) I have discussed somewhat in say Pages 1600 to 1630 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook with focus on the “Shepherd of Hermas” Writing primarily.

 

4) Old Testament Canon

 

Could there be more than 66 books even more books within Old Testament itself?

 

I will do it in a FAQ style where a “the 66 Books supporting Protestant quote all comes from link in 2) earlier” while I comment or add a discussion regarding how true those claims are (this is not an exhaustive explanation but to highlight some points only):

 

 

  1. i) Josephus and the Council of Jamnia

 

“… Josephus, the Jewish historian writing around A.D. 90, clearly stated in his defense of Judaism that, unlike the Greeks, the Jews did not have many books:  For we have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, disagreeing from and contradicting one another [as the Greeks have] but only twenty-two books, which contain the records of all the past times; which are justly believed to be divine.6 … The Council of Jamnia. Between A.D. 90 and 100, a group of Jewish scholars met at Jamnia in Israel to consider matters relating to the Hebrew Scriptures. It has been suggested that the canon of the Jewish Scriptures was agreed here; the reality is that there is no contemporary record of the deliberations at Jamnia and our knowledge is therefore left to the comments of later rabbis. The idea that there was no clear canon of the Hebrew Scriptures before A.D. 100 is not only in conflict with the testimony of Josephus and others, but has also been seriously challenged more recently. It is now generally accepted that Jamnia was not a council nor did it pronounce on the Jewish canon; rather it was an assembly that examined and discussed the Hebrew Scriptures. The purpose of Jamnia was not to decide which books should be included among the sacred writings, but to examine those that were already accepted.7 …”

 

Source: https://answersingenesis.org/the-word-of-god/why-66-books/

 

Reply

 

This is inaccurate from the start itself as the “Jews” did NOT decide 22 Books (their counting as per our renaming or modern counting it’s 36 books) in the Old Testament based on “Josephus’ quote nor the Council of Jamina” but rather from this Verse in Esdras because their history reveals that all (or most) Torah Writings itself were “lost” (or destroyed) and was reproduced solely by Blessed Prophet Ezra via “Divine Inspiration” which the authour here is ‘not’ quoting that ‘Jewish fact’ which ‘all Jews agree’.

 

Why? Because it’s in this “Verse” and incident it’s revealed by GOD’S INSTRUCTION that there are more than “22 books (or 36 by modern re-labelling)” but only the “22″ can be made as “PUBLIC CANON”.

 

[To quote from Pages 85 to 87 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

if a Protestant claims there are 39 Books in the Old Testament (24 by the Old Way of numbering), they are affirming the 2 ESDRAS verse as “Truthknowingly or unknowingly as that’s what the Jewish Tradition points to when claiming this. However 2 ESDRAS also points to  other “Truths” if it is to be accepted namely:

 

 70 more Secret Scripture Books were Written for the Wise which could be some of the First Jewish Christianity Writings which I have quoted in my books where several has some type of Christ Centered Universalism Prophecy as a type of “non-Elect Salvation” as discussed in Pages 94 to 114 in the #IgnoredChristianDoctrineBook

 

Example:

 

“… Finally, there is a vision of the restoration of scripture. God appears to Ezra in a bush and  commands him to restore the Law. Ezra gathers five scribes and begins to dictate. After

forty days, he has produced ninety-four books: the twenty-four books of the Tanakh and

seventy secret works: Make public the twenty-four books that you wrote first, and let the

worthy and the unworthy read them; but keep the seventy that were written last, in order

to give them to the wise among your people.” (2 Esdras 14:45–46 RSV; 4 Ezra 12:45–46) …”

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Esdras

 

So, to agree to the 24 (or 39) Books of the Old Testament is to take this record as True in 2

Esdras which in turn implies in its same sentence the truth of the ’70 hidden/secret books to  the wise.

 

In 2 ESDRAS itself we find Blessed Prophet Ezra who re-created the entire “Lost” Old Testament Cannon via Divine Inspiration asking for “Universalism Hope” few times in this book itself despite being forbid to ask for it with “no” condemnation “nor” loss of rewards but surprisingly was even “ADMIRED BY THE MOST HIGH” for him to ‘plea for the wicked like this making himself lowly like that’ (humility), example Verse:

 

“… 47 You are a long way from loving my creation more than I do. But  YOU HAVE OFTEN ASSOCIATED YOURSELF WITH THE WICKED. Never do so! 48 BUT EVEN IN THIS  RESPECT THE MOST HIGH WILL ADMIRE YOU, 49 BECAUSE YOU HAVE HUMBLED YOURSELF, as befits you, and DIDN’T COUNT YOURSELF AMONG THE RIGHTEOUS so that you may be glorified the more.  …” (2 Esdras 8:47 – 49, CEB)

Source:  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Esdras%208&version=CEB

In short, “no” condemnation for Universalism asking is seen as God is “not” going to send Prophet Ezra to Hell just because he wants to try ask for some cruel self-centred disobedient ones some hope.

 

 

God may “not” answer that request but He doesn’t punish Prophet Ezra in any way for asking. A mystery is that a Version of the “Apocalypse of Ezra” First  Christianity Book (which could be one of the 70 secret Books) has indicated that such a redemption could be possible as per example post in link below (maybe after a long time the righteous ask for a non-Elect Salvation somewhere outside the Kingdom of God as other First Christianity writings have echoed) as I have clearly Discussed in say pages 114 to 141 of the #IgnoredChristianDoctrineBook .

 

 

The Council of Jamnia was done by Jews who “rejected Christ” and were “unsaved” and their opinion about 100 years AFTER CHRIST does “not” matter (outdated).

 

 

In fact, ask any “Jew” today if say they accept “Tobit” as “a true event” and you will hear a “yes“.

 

 

Can you “see” it?

 

 

Their definition of “public” canon is one thing while Books like “Tobit” and even “1/2 Maccabees” (with miracles testified by those Jews who consider him their “prophet” too) was ‘too recent’ (last 500 years before Christ) and that’s why it’s not canonized yet and the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD made all these more worse.

 

 

 

 

 

  1. ii) Martin Luther’s opinions

 

2 ESDRAS was in the “Original First KING James 1611 Bible” too and Martin Luther himself said that these Apocrypha Books (including this “2 ESDRAS” as good). Example Quote:

 

‘… Keep this in mind when reading the following apocryphal books. MARTIN LUTHER SAID,

 

Apocrypha–that is, books which are NOT REGARDED AS EQUAL TO THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, AND YET ARE PROFITABLE AND GOOD TO READ.” (King James Version Defended page 98.)

Books of the Apocrypha

1 Esdras

2 Esdras

Tobit

Judith

Additions to Esther

Wisdom of Solomon

Ecclesiasticus

Baruch

Letter of Jeremiah

Prayer of Azariah

Susanna

Bel and the Dragon

Prayer of Manasseh

1 Maccabees

2 Maccabees …’

 

Source:

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Apocrypha-Books/

 

  1. Could Martin Luther had way more serious possible False Doctrines?

 

Martin Luther believed in Soul Sleep and didn’t know much about the Resurrection and spoke rashly against the Book of Revelation (only “permitting” others to include it but strongly opposed it to the end) and also spoke against the Book of James but yet is “Saved” too. Not to mention his false teachings on hating Jews type which caused people to kill Jews after reading his writings. I am “not” condemning him but showing that his errors of Doctrine caused very serious consequences than others. Maybe God’s Mercy is much Greater than we think.

 

iii) Lord Jesus Christ and His Apostles

 

“… Jesus, His Disciples, and the Early Church Leaders

For their part, the Christian community both in the days of Jesus and in the centuries following had no doubt that there was a body of books that made up the records of the old covenant. Since there are literally hundreds of direct quotations or clear allusions to Old Testament passages by Jesus and the apostles, it is evident what the early Christians thought of the Hebrew Scriptures. The New Testament writers rarely quote from other books and never with the same authority. The Apocrypha is entirely absent in their writing. …”

 

Source: https://answersingenesis.org/the-word-of-god/why-66-books/

 

Reply

 

Christ may have Quoted from these “Apocrypha” Books too, Here are some examples:

 

Matt. 2:16 – Herod’s decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 – slaying the holy innocents.

 

Matt. 7:16,20 – Jesus’ statement “you will know them by their fruits” follows Sirach 27:6 – the fruit discloses the cultivation.

 

Matt. 9:36 – the people were “like sheep without a shepherd” is same as Judith 11:19 – sheep without a shepherd.

 

Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 – Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.

 

John 5:18 – Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.

 

Luke 21:24 – Jesus’ usage of “fall by the edge of the sword” follows Sirach 28:18.

 

Source:

 

 

https://thoughtsfromacatholic.wordpress.com/2012/12/22/did-jesus-quote-deuterocanonical-books/

 

 

A bigger list for “Deuterocanonical Books Quoted In New Testament”:

 

 

https://apologeticessay.wordpress.com/2017/10/21/deuterocanonical-books-quoted-in-new-testament/

 

 

We can debate whether each quote is from “Apocrypha or not” but it “can be” and so we ought to be careful with “our words” and at least view it as a “possibility” to be “safe“.

 

 

 

Here’s another rarely known fact:

 

[to partially quote from Page 151 and 152 of the #MysteryoftheKingdomofHeavenBook ]

 

Christ Celebrated Hanukkah the Feast which was due to Maccabees

 

Please remember that this “same Maccabees” is the one who taught “Purgatory” concept in that “one could do Almsgiving and Prayers on behalf of the dead so that some of them may be loosed from their sins” in Verses below from the same historical book which records this ‘Hanukkah festival and deliverance event which Christ Celebrated according to John 10:22’, these Verses:

 

“… 43 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, 44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) 45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. 46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins. …” (2 Maccabees 12:43 – 46, DRA)

 

Source:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Maccabees%2012%3A43-46&version=DRA

 

Here’s a simple question:

 

If Maccabees was a false prophet or did the above wrongly, why is Christ even taking time to celebrate a fake Jewish Feast called the “Feast of Dedication” or “Hanukkah” which is NOT found in Old Testament Scripture of the Torah NOR the prophets because it recently occurred just before the time of Christ?

 

 

 

 

If Maccabees could do such a mistake of “Prayer for the Dead” and NOTPrayer to the dead” (which is non-existent in Scripture) and be saved and even used miraculously by God as even the lights of the Menorah miraculously stayed lit ( As the story goes, a small quantity of oil to light the Temple’s menorah miraculously lasted eight days ) when Maccabees was used by God to deliver from the enemies, to the point that Christ Himself recognised this “uncanonical Jewish Feast” in John 10:22 – 23, then if others do the same, why would they be condemned?

 

Also, Christ Himself Declares in Verse below that the “Law (Torah) and Prophets” were untilJohn” (referring to “John the Baptist“) and not until “Prophet Malachi only” which could include even “Maccabees” since Christ Celebrated this Feast of Dedication by making Himself present at Jerusalem’s Temple during this time as John 10:22 – 23 records:

 

“… The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. …” (Luke 16:16, NKJV)

 

“… 22Now it was the FEAST OF DEDICATION in JERUSALEM, and it was winter. 23And JESUS WALKED IN THE TEMPLE, in Solomon’s porch. …” (John 10:22 – 23, NKJV)

 

I am “not” 100% sure if Purgatory is true but even the “Shepherd of Hermas” Scripture Visions in First Christianity do Testify of it likewise [for example: I have discussed it in Pages 1600 to 1630 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]and so I keep an open mind about it “not” taking any risks to Blaspheme God either way letting Him Alone decide regarding these Hidden Things.

 

 

Please notice also that “2 Maccabees” Verses earlier  includes the concept of “Almsgiving” for the “Removal of Judgment of Sins” too as per “St. Polycarp’s quote in next section“.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the BEST MYSTERY regarding WHAT CHRIST DECLARED during the HANNUKAH (“Chanukah”) FEAST namely:

 

“… I and my Father are ONE …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (John 10:30, NKJV)

 

Please recall that this “Hanukkah” is the same one established by Judas Maccabees. Now, If Maccabees was a false prophet or did the above wrongly, why is Christ even taking time to celebrate a fake Jewish Feast called the “Feast of Dedication” or “Hanukkah” which is NOT found in Old Testament Scripture of the Torah NOR the prophets because it recently occurred just before the time of Christ? [I repeat from the earlier page for “emphasis”]

 

Please remember that this “same Maccabees” is the one who taught “Purgatory” concept in that “one could do Almsgiving and Prayers on behalf of the dead so that some of them may be loosed from their sins” in Verses below from the same historical book which records this ‘Hanukkah festival and deliverance event which Christ Celebrated according to John 10:22’, these Verses:

 

“… 43 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, 44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) 45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. 46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins. …” (2 Maccabees 12:43 – 46, DRA)

 

Source:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Maccabees%2012%3A43-46&version=DRA

 

 

“… 22Now it was the FEAST OF DEDICATION in JERUSALEM, and it was winter. 23And JESUS WALKED IN THE TEMPLE, in Solomon’s porch. …” (John 10:22 – 23, NKJV)

 

 

I am “not” 100% sure if Purgatory is true but even the “Shepherd of Hermas” Scripture Visions in First Christianity do Testify of it likewise [for example: I have discussed it in Pages 1600 to 1630 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]and so I keep an open mind about it “not” taking any risks to Blaspheme God either way letting Him Alone decide regarding these Hidden Things.

 

Please notice also that “2 Maccabees” Verses earlier  includes the concept of “Almsgiving” for the “Removal of Judgment of Sins” too as per “St. Polycarp’s quote in next section“.

 

As per “suggestion” in quote in image  (below) which is “possible“, this HANNUKKAH is generally celebrated on 25 DECEMBER which may be the reasonwhy” Christians in early centuries took that date as CHRIST’S BIRTHDATE or today we see it as “Christmas Day”. No one knows for sure though.

 

 

Peace to you

 

  1. iv) Early Church Fathers

 

“… Well before the close of the first century, Clement of Rome quoted from or referred to more than half the New Testament and claimed that Paul wrote “in the Spirit” and that his letters were “Scriptures.”

Polycarp, who was martyred in A.D. 155, quoted from 16 NT books and referred to them as “Sacred Scriptures.”

Irenaeus of Lyons, one of the most able defenders of the faith, around A.D. 180 quoted over 1,000 passages from all but four or five New Testament books, and called them “the Scriptures” given by the Holy Spirit.

Tertullian of Carthage, around A.D. 200, was the first serious expositor and used almost all the NT books. They were equated with the Old Testament, and he referred to “the majesty of our Scriptures.” He clearly possessed a canon almost, if not wholly, identical to ours.

By A.D. 240, Origen of Alexandria was using all our 27 books, and only those, as Scripture alongside the Old Testament books.

And these are just examples of many of the church leaders at this time. …”

 

Source: https://answersingenesis.org/the-word-of-god/why-66-books/

 

Reply

 

Each of the “Church Father” quoted by NAME here accepted even more Books as SCRIPTURE which the ‘author either is hiding or doesn’t know’, here are examples for each name here only for instruction:

 

  1. Blessed St. Clement of Rome, an Apostolic Father being a direct Disciple of the Blessed Apostle St. Peter (c.35 AD – c. 99 AD) Quotes the “ApocryphaJudith and Wisdom

 

“… Here Clement is clearly identifying the Lord’s words as the Lord’s words. Jesus being our Savior and the perfect prophet, Clement is apparently treating his words as “the word of God”. But some of Clements Old Testament(OT) citations are not in the Protestant canon, notably references to Wisdom and Judith, which are deuterocanonical books in the Catholic bible, and part of the Septuagint from which Clement quoted.  There are no such “it is written” citations for parts of Clement’s writings that appear to be quotes from what we would call New Testament writings.  Although in Chapter XLVII Clement does say that the epistle Paul wrote to Corinth “truly under the inspiration of the spirit,” Clement clearly considers OT writings as scripture and does not give New Testament writings the same status. Clement marks OT scripture with the status of “It is written” which he does not do for New Testament writings. He specifically calls OT writings “scripture” which he does not do for New Testament writings. …”

 

Source: http://www.originalchristianity.net/?p=1773

 

or details in this link (same facts no matter whom you quote as we have his writings preserved):

 

https://effectualgrace.com/2017/12/21/the-apostolic-fathers-and-their-quotations-of-the-deutero-canonical-books/

 

  1. Blessed St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smryna, an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of the Blessed St. John the Apostle who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 69 AD – c. 155 AD) specifically QUOTES the “Apocrypha” BOOK of TOBIT for the ALMS DELIVERS from DEATH DOCTRINE (i.e. the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle for the REMOVAL of “JUDGMENT of SINS” but NOT sins itself which can only be by CHRIST’S MOST PRECIOUS BLOOD*)

 

“… STAND FAST, therefore, in these things, and FOLLOW THE EXAMPLE OF THE LORD, being firm and UNCHANGEABLE IN THE FAITH, loving the brotherhood, and being attached to one another, joined together in the truth, exhibiting the meekness of the Lord in your intercourse with one another, and despising no one. When YOU CAN DO GOOD, DEFER IT NOT, because “ALMS DELIVERS FROM DEATH.” [Tobit 12:9]” Be all of you subject one to another? having your conduct blameless among the Gentiles,” that YE MAY BOTH RECEIVE PRAISE FOR YOUR GOOD WORKS, and the Lord may not be blasphemed through you. But WOE TO HIM by whom the name of the Lord is blasphemed! Teach, therefore, sobriety to all, and manifest it also in your own conduct. …” – Blessed St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smryna, an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of the Blessed St. John the Apostle who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 69 AD – c. 155 AD, CHAPTER X.–EXHORTATION TO THE PRACTICE OF VIRTUE, THE EPISTLE OF POLYCARP TO THE PHILIPPIANS)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/polycarp-roberts.html

 

 

So regardless if St. Polycarp sees TOBIT as SCRIPTURE or ‘simply quotes it as some protestant scholars claim as they are lost for words on this quote’, the FACT is (whether we agree or not), St. POLYCARP who walked with Blessed Apostle St. John himself is quoting this ALMSGIVING (#CharityDoctrine) as TRUE from TOBIT so this part of TOBIT is most likely true for doctrine based on this, so here are those related Verses in full:

 

“…  6 Then he said to them SECRETLY: Bless ye the God of heaven, give glory to him in the sight of all that live, because he hath shewn his mercy to you. 7 For it is good to hide the secret of a king: but honourable to reveal and confess the works of God. 8 PRAYER IS GOOD WITH FASTING AND ALMS MORE THAN to lay up treasures of gold: 9 For ALMS DELIVERETH from DEATH, and the same is that which PURGETH AWAY SINS, and maketh to FIND MERCY AND LIFE EVERLASTING. … 15 For I am the angel RAPHAEL, one of the seven who stand before the Lord. …” (Bible Scripture.Net Translation, Tobit 12:6 – 9, 15)

 

Source: https://biblescripture.net/Tobias.html

 

Note:  This Quote regarding “Alms [or Charity Doctrine] delivers from Death” by St. Polycarp earlier directly is referenced to Blessed Archangel Raphael (one of the 7 Archangels) himself from this Tobit book and St. Polycarp cannot be quoting  some ‘myth’, right? Unless he believed this part to be true. Mysterious indeed.

 

 

“… 7 GIVE GENEROUSLY to anyone who faithfully obeys God. If you are stingy in giving to the poor, God will be stingy in giving to you. 8 Give according to what you have. THE MORE YOU HAVE, THE MORE YOU SHOULD GIVE. Even if you have only a little, be sure to give something. 9 This is as good as money saved. You will have your reward in a time of trouble. 10-11 TAKING CARE OF THE POOR is the kind of offering that PLEASES GOD IN HEAVEN. DO THIS, and YOU WILL BE KEPT SAFE FROM THE DARK WORLD OF THE DEAD. …” (Good News Translation, Tobit 4:7 – 11)

 

Source:  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Tobit+4&version=GNT

 

 

 

 

*Note: The Most High God Taught Prophet Daniel this #CharityDoctrine for Removal of “Judgment of Sins” in this Verse in Daniel 4:27 itself for any “66 Books Protestant Bible too”

 

“… Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and BREAK OFF THY SINS BY RIGHTEOUSNESS, and THINE INIQUITIES BY SHEWING MERCY TO THE POOR; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity. …” – Blessed and Holy Prophet Daniel (Daniel 4:27, KJV based on the Masoretic Text)

Source: https://biblehub.com/daniel/4-27.htm

 

Compare:

 

” … 27Therefore, O king, let my counsel please thee, and ATONE FOR THY SINS BY ALMS, and THINE INIQUITIES BY COMPASSION ON THE POOR: it may be God will be long-suffering to thy trespasses.” … – Blessed and Holy Prophet Daniel (Daniel 4:27, Brenton Septuagint Translation, based on the Septuagint or LXX)

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/daniel/4.htm

 

 

“… And above all things have fervent love for one another, for “LOVE will COVER a MULTITUDE OF SINS.” …”(1 Peter 4:8, NKJV)

 

“… Therefore I say to you, HER SINS, which are MANY, ARE FORGIVEN, for SHE LOVED MUCH. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 7:47, NKJV)

 

Christ Himself Taught that the #CharityDoctrine can remove the “Judgment of Sins” in Verses above as “Love covers sins” concept and in the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19 – 31)  but it cannot give new life nor give Resurrection.

 

Only the Blood of Christ Can Remove Sin itself and bring us to the Resurrection Life beginning within us on earth itself.  So only Christ’s Atonement and Work Gives us Life.

 

 

The Almsgiving stops the ‘Judgment of Sins’, nothing more as that’s the Context meant in Tobit or elsewhere in Verses quoted here (even in Christ’s Parable of the Rich Man and Beggar Lazarus too which Speaks of this absence of Charity Doctrine leads straight to Hell in Luke 16:19 – 31) by which even Lazarus can be ‘spared of that Judgment’ too.

 

Blessed Apostle St. Paul taught the “removal of Judgment of Sins” in the Context of Mercy for Eternal Life in this Verse too on “THAT DAY” (JUDGMENT DAY) based on the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle lived first:

 

“… 16The LORD GRANT MERCY to the HOUSEHOLD OF ONESIPHORUS, FOR HE OFTEN REFRESHED ME, and was not ashamed of my chain; 17but when he arrived in Rome, he sought me out very zealously and found me. 18The LORD GRANT TO HIM THAT HE MAY FIND MERCY FROM THE LORD IN THAT DAY—and YOU KNOW VERY WELL HOW MANY WAYS HE MINISTERED [d]TO ME AT EPHESUS. …” (2 Timothy 1:12 – 18, NKJV)

 

iii. Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD) Quotes the SHEPHERD of HERMAS as SCRIPTURE

 

*”… Irenaeus and the Shepherd of Hermas:  Irenaeus writes in Adversus Haereses:

 

Truly, then, the Scripture declared, which says, “First of all believe that there is one God, who has established all things, and completed them, and having caused that from what had no being, all things should come into existence. He who contains all things, and is Himself contained by no one.” [Book 2, First Commandment, of the Shepherd of Hermas]. Rightly also has Malachi said among the prophets: “Is it not one God who hath established us? Have we not all one Father?” (4.20.2. of Adversus Haereses)

 

This passage, where Irenaeus calls the Shepherd of Hermas ‘scripture’, is mentioned by [Grant] p. 153 and [Metzger] p. 155.

…”

Source: http://www.ntcanon.org/Irenaeus.shtml

 

 

  1. Blessed Tertullian, Father of Latin Christianity, Founder of Western Theological Scholarship (c. 155 AD – c. 240 AD) also calls the SHEPHERD of HERMAS as SCRIPTURE

 

“… Tertullian implies that Pope Callixtus I had quoted it as an authority (though evidently not as one of the books of the Bible), for he replies: “I would admit your argument, if the writing of The Shepherd had deserved to be included in the Divine Instrument, and if it were not judged by every council of the Churches, even of your own Churches, among the apocryphal.”   … Again, he says that the Epistle of Barnabas is “more received among the Churches than that apocryphal Shepherd” (De pudicitia, 10 and 20). …”

 

Source:  https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Shepherd_of_Hermas

 

Note: Tertullian is NOT resisting the Shepherd of Hermas as his quote with St. Callixtus I (Bishop of Rome) here rings in “his own words” as “… I would admit your argument, if the writing of The Shepherd had deserved to be included in the Divine Instrument …” but he then proceeds to talk about ‘others’ (not him nor St. Callixtus) who resist it and because of that it’s hard to “include it as part of the DIVINE INSTRUMENT (Scripture)”.

 

  1. Blessed Origen of Alexandria, the Great but surprisingly Modest Exegete of the Eastern Church, “Nicknamed: Admantius or Man of Steel”, Tortured and Martyred for Christ who also was used by God to decide which of the available six Hebrew Bible Variants called the Hexapla was to be used for the Christian Church (c. 184 AD – c. 253 AD) quoted the SHEPHERD of HERMAS a SCRIPTURE too

 

To quote from a ‘purely Roman Catholic source’ too (as example as I said, no matter which source we quote from the ‘fact is the same’):

 

“… The Muratorian Fragment*(c.200) says: “And very recently in our own times, in the city of Rome, Hermas wrote the Pastor, when his brother Pius, the bishop, sat upon the chair of the city of Rome.” … The Shepherd was well-regarded by several of the Fathers, though there was little interest in it by St. Jerome’s time. St. Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria and Origen considered the Shepherd inspired, while Eusebius and St. Athanasius approved of its use for catechumens. …”

Source: https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/church-fathers-shepherd-hermas/

 

Note: All these ‘same Church Fathers’ I have quoted extensively in my books too.

Conclusion

 

I am “not” asking you to agree with the “Church Fathers” but revealing that to speak “truth/honesty“, we have to “reveal in full” what is ‘known knowledge’ first.

 

Regarding ‘which/who is right?‘, I see it with “neutrality” as follows:

 

Instead of only thinking that these Church Fathers have made a ‘mistake’ , we should also consider the POSSIBILITY that “we could be the ones making the mistake” and thus be more careful and honest with what the ACTUAL CHURCH HISTORY and the WRITINGS of these FIRST CHRISTIANITY GIANTS actually mean. Let GOD DECIDE for HE ALONE KNOWS.

 

 

 

 

 

Christ’s Sheep and beyond – Possibilities from First Christianity

 

1) Sheep is not anyone who believes in Christ only but also FOLLOWS HIM

 

“… 25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26But you DO NOT BELIEVE, because you are NOT OF MY SHEEP, [e]as I said to you. 27My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they FOLLOW ME. 28And I give them ETERNAL LIFE, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. …” (John 10:25 – 28, NKJV)

 

Which Definition of “FOLLOW CHRIST” did CHRIST GIVE in SCRIPTURE in the CONTEXT of ETERNAL LIFE? Two things namely He Quoted only the “Holiness Commands” and the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle Command (nothing else; let’s NOT add to “His Words” because if anything else was important for the CONTEXT of ETERNAL LIFE, He Would have Answered here which HE DID NOT), Verses:

 

“… 20The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [g]from my youth. What do I STILL LACK?” 21JESUS said to him, “IF you want to be PERFECT, go, SELL what YOU HAVE and GIVE to the POOR, and YOU WILL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN; and come, FOLLOW ME.” 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away SORROWFUL, for he had GREAT POSSESSIONS.23Then JESUS said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is HARD for a RICH MAN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. 24And AGAIN I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. …” (Matthew 19:20 – 24, NKJV)

 

So unless a SHEEP (Christian) FOLLOWS HIM in both the HOLINESS and CHARITY DOCTRINE COMMAND (Teaching that as DOCTRINE), they may NOT be HIS SHEEP, right?

 

Here’s a Mystery: Some say that Christ Didn’t Say “Sell ALL you have” but just “part of it” but they don’t know Scripture accurately if they say so. For “PERFECTION“, Christ Actually Said Sell “ALL” you have as “Mark” Records this clearly as follows:

 

“… Looking at him, Jesus showed love to him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and SELL ALL YOU POSSESS and GIVE TO THE POOR, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, FOLLOW ME.” …” (Mark 10:21, NASB)

 

The NASB’s Manuscript is ‘missing’ one key phrase which the “Majority Manuscript” (used by say the King James Translation and most in Church History too ) Testifies of the “CARRY YOUR CROSS” phrase too in THIS CONTEXT, Verse:

 

 

“… Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, SELL WHATSOEVER THOU HAST, and GIVE TO THE POOR, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, TAKE UP THE CROSS, and FOLLOW ME. …” (Mark 10:21, KJV)

 

 

Note: Personally I did “not” sell all and give to the poor either meriting only a least piece of heaven even if saved by His Mercy but that does “not” stop me from Preaching this Truth as Christ Taught it. Many of the Church Fathers did it.

 

 

or in an easier  English Translation for clarity (yes What is True Biblical Love? Love Looks at you in the eye and Tells you this):

 

“… Then JESUS, LOOKING at him, LOVED him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, SELL WHATEVER YOU HAVE and GIVE TO THE POOR, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, TAKE UP THE CROSS, and FOLLOW ME.” …” (Mark 10:21, NKJV)

 

 

Comment: only Mark Records this Conversation in full (for this part) namely that the “FOLLOW ME” which CHRIST MEANT (not human twisting) requires the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle of “…  SELL WHATEVER YOU HAVE and GIVE TO THE POOR,  …” and by Doing this #CharityDoctrineLifestyle is part of the requirement for “…. and come, TAKE UP THE CROSS,  …” as “it is Written” here.

 

Can you see it?

 

 

 

 

2) Are there SHEEP among GOOD nonChristians who could be Saved on JUDGMENT DAY?

 

Here is this “Possibility” based on First Christianity and BIBLE VERSES:

 

Indeed, but these “Sheep” did “not” even know the Lord much (or even did not know Him but He Knew them), Verses:

 

“… 31“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32All the NATIONS will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his SHEEP from the goats. 33And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the RIGHTEOUS WILL ANSWER Him, saying, ‘Lord, When Did We See You Hungry And Feed YOU, or THIRSTY AND GIVE YOU DRINK? 38WHEN DID WE SEE YOU A STRANGER and TAKE YOU IN, OR NAKED AND CLOTHE YOU? 39Or WHEN DID WE SEE YOU SICK, OR in PRISON, AND COME TO YOU?’ 40And THE KING WILL ANSWER and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I SAY TO YOU, INASMUCH AS YOU DID IT TO ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHREN, YOU DID IT TO ME.’ …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 25:31 – 40, NKJV)

 

Please notice that these SHEEP have done the #CharityDoctrine toward CHRIST’S BRETHREN (or CHRISTIANS according to Matthew 12:48 – 50 in some way) where by “receiving Christians in some way, it could have been equal to receiving Christ in a lower degree” as it’s POSSIBLE based on HIS OWN WORDS below:

 

“… 46While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, HIS MOTHER AND BROTHERS, seeking to speak with Him. 47Then one said to Him, “Look, YOUR MOTHER AND YOUR BROTHERS are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.” 48But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “WHO IS MY MOTHER and WHO ARE MY BROTHERS?” 49And He stretched out His hand TOWARD HIS DISCIPLES and said, “HERE ARE MY MOTHER AND MY BROTHERS! 50For whoever DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER in heaven is MY BROTHER AND SISTER AND MOTHER.” …” (Matthew 12:46 – 50, NKJV)

More details around Page 625 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook too because anyone who ‘accepts a Christian’ (say even within a family or as a friend and practiced the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle toward them may be CONSIDERED as EQUIVALENT TO RECEIVING CHRIST HIMSELF, hence saved by this NON-ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY based on these next set of Verses by CHRIST HIMSELF DIRECTLY too):

“…40“He who receives you receives Me, … 41He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. 42And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 10:40 – 42, highlighted phrases, NKJV)

 

In Verses below CHRIST equates “believing in John the Baptist’s message” was also considered “believing in Him” as the “Tax collectors and Harlots” did and if it may be extended (let God Decide), could it be there that these SHEEP which are saved on JUDGMENT DAY only be those who “obeyed some Command of Christ” especially this CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE as Matthew 25:31 – 46 Reveals here which was PREACHED by CHRISTIANS (“His Brethren” in this passage) and thus may be considered RECEIVING HIM (Christ) or BELIEVING HIM (CHRIST) too to a “lower degree” and thus in return be considered as having DONE the WILL of the FATHER and so get to be the NATIONS WHO ARE SAVED to INHERIT THE FINAL NEW EARTH part of HIS KINGDOM with some requiring HEALING from the LEAVES of the TREE OF LIFE too as Revelation 20:5, 11 – 15, 21:1, 9 – 10, 24 – 27, 22:2, point? Verses:

 

“… 31Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said to Him, “The first.”

Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you32For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe himbut tax collectors and harlots believed him; and when you saw it, you did not afterward [f]relent and believe him. . …” (Matthew 21:31, NKJV)

Source: https://biblehub.com/nkjv/matthew/21.htm

 

Disclaimer (Please allow me to repeat):

I am “not” saying this must be the interpretation but I present it as a “possibility” in light of all these Bible Verses. As I have said, I am “not” a heretic and will accept whichever God Decides One Day but I just present the evidence found within Orthodox and reliable Christianity for these “possibilities”.          

 

Could these SURPRISED SHEEP be the SHEEP FROM the OTHER FOLD CHRIST SPOKE of in Verse below?

“… And OTHER SHEEP I have which are NOT OF THIS FOLD; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. …” (John 10:16, NKJV)

Note: As opposed to the usual view that the ‘sheep of the other fold’ could refer to Jew vs Gentile, the fact that the JUDGMENT DAY SURPRISED SHEEP of the NATIONS [Matthew 25:31 – 46] are SAVED 1000 YEARS AFTER the WEDDING/CHRISTIAN Salvation of the FIRST RESURRECTION as “Chiliasm” Doctrine Taught [Revelation 20:4 – 6, Luke 20:34 – 36] seem to point (as discussed even with St. Irenaeous of Lyon’s Quotes** with others say in Pages 1389 to 1397 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.), John 10:16 could be referring to these Sheep then “possibly“.

 

These SURPRISED SHEEP of the NATIONS (being ‘surprised’ on Judgment Day itself could indicate most likely that these are NOT CHRISTIANS) could be the MEEK of whom CHRIST SAID could INHERIT THE EARTH referring to this FINAL NEW EARTH CONTEXT most likely:

 

“… BLESSED are the MEEK, For they shall INHERIT THE EARTH. …” – The KING Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:5, NKJV)

 

They are not Saved by Works but God’s Mercy as they get a chance to believe after seeing as John 6:40 may point to this Hope being available till the “Last Day or Judgment Day”.

 

The Context of CHRIST Scolding the Pharisees as NOT BELIEVING includes this CONDITION of SEEING and NOT BELIEVEING which made them as “NOT His Sheep”. So in Verses below by CHRIST HIMSELF, He Seems to allow the BELIEVING AFTER SEEING POSSIBILITY as follows for ‘rest of mankind in some way eventually’:

 

“… 35And JESUS said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall NEVER THIRST. 36But I said to you that YOU HAVE SEEN ME and YET DO NOT BELIEVE. 37All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39This is the WILL OF THE FATHER who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should RAISE IT UP at the LAST DAY. 40And this is THE WILL OF HIM who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES THE SON AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE; and I will RAISE HIM UP at the LAST DAY.” …” (John 6:35 – 40, NKJV)

 

“… And as MOSES LIFTED UP the SERPENT in the wilderness, even so must the SON OF MAN BE LIFTED UP, 15that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM should [c]NOT PERISH but have ETERNAL LIFE. …” (John 3:14 – 15, NKJV)

 

 

Comment: John 3:14 – 15 and John 6:36 – 40 above seem to point strongly to the ‘Believing after Seeing case’ which could be available till the LAST DAY as both John 6:40 and the Shepherd of Hermas quote too around Page 1588 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook seem to point for this ‘non-Elect Salvation Possibility’.

 

.  In the Context of John 3:14, it is Christ Who is quoting the phrase “… which in the past literally referred to those ‘who saw the Serpent on the Bronze stick’ and those who ‘LITERALLY SEE it and BELIEVE’ was HEALED which Christ seems to Hint likewise to Himself as the ‘Believing after Seeing Possibility’ toward those who were ‘bitten by the serpent (indicating Satan metaphorically)’ as per the past incident Christ refers to below:

 

“… 8Then THE LORD SAID to MOSES “Make a FIERY SERPENT, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he LOOKS AT IT, SHALL LIVE.” 9So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a SERPENT HAD BITTEN ANYONE, when he LOOKED AT THE BRONZE SERPENT, he LIVED. …” (Number 21:8 – 9, NKJV)

 

The phrase “Lifted Up” in John 3:14 – 15 above can refer to ‘after Christ is Glorified’ as it points to a time after ‘Christ has Died’ and Resurrected ‘from the earth’ (implied clearly in Verse below) which strengthens this claims for ‘Believing after Seeing the RISEN CHRIST Possibility’ as they’re Saved by Christ like that (if God Wills it):

 

“… No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. …” (John 6:44, NKJV)

 

“… 32And I, if I am [e]LIFTED UP FROM THE EARTH, will DRAW ALL PEOPLES to Myself.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (John 12:32, NKJV)

Perhaps Christ’s Draws all People to Himself to give them this chance of Believing after seeing Possibility for a  non-Elect Salvation Possibility as the “Context” for these Verses around John 6:44 above seems to point to that as follows:

 

“… 36But I said to you that YOU HAVE SEEN ME and YET DO NOT BELIEVE … 40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES THE SON and BELIEVES IN HIM may have EVERLASTING LIFE; and I will RAISE HIM UP at the LAST DAY.” …” (John 6:36, 40, NKJV)

 

These saved “sheep” of the nations could be part of the “nations of those who are saved” revealed in Verses below 1000 years later after the CHRISTIAN Salvation where even THE BRIDE (CHURCH) seems to be distinctly contrasted in Heaven (“Heavenly Jerusalem“) as opposed to them being saved on that FINAL NEW EARTH only where ONLY those with NAMES in the LAMB’S BOOK of LIFE get to VISIT that FINAL HEAVENLY JERUSALEM which connects to that FINAL NEW EARTH (also implying the ‘possibility’ that there could be some saved on that final New Earth whose names may not be in the Lamb’s Book of Life and hence CANNOT enter into the CITY for if all entered into the city among the saved nations, then this clause seems unnecessary and the gate seems unnecessary unless it FILTERS those among the saved who have THEIR NAMES in the BOOK of LIFE only to ENTER while the rest saved on the NEW EARTH could be regular ones, hence non-Elect Salvation of this type who could have HEALING from the LEAVES of the TREE of LIFE too with earthly resurrection bodies as discussed in other Pages of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ), Verses:

 

 

“… But THE REST OF THE DEAD DID NOT LIVE AGAIN until the THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED. This is the first resurrection. … 11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. …”1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was NO MORE SEA.  ” … Come, I will show you the [g]BRIDE, the LAMB’S WIFE.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED ME THE [H]GREAT CITY, the [I]HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN from God,  … 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE. …” … In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the TREE OF LIFE, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 20:5, 11 – 15, 21:1, 9 – 10, 24 – 27,  22:2, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

 

3) Is there a Salvation for “non-SheepAFTER JUDGMENT?

 

Here’s is such a “Possibility” based on some Bible Verses and First Christianity quotes likewise:

 

The rest can be saved OUTSIDE the Kingdom of God even via HIS POWER itself as Philippians 3:19 -21 and Hebrews 2:8 can mean that according to this Ancient Witness of Doctrine too: (This quote may be found in link below in his main Book, not a disputed source):

“… 182. Let us then shortly sum up our conclusion on the whole matter. A unity of power puts aside all idea of a degrading subjection. His giving up of power, and His victory as conqueror won over death, have not lessened His power. Obedience works out subjection. Christ has taken obedience upon Himself, obedience even to taking on Him our flesh, the cross even to gaining our salvation. Thus where the work lies, there too is the Author of the work. When therefore, all things have become subject to Christ, through Christ’s obedience, so that all bend their knees in His name, then He Himself will be all in all. For now, since all do not believe, all do not seem to be in subjection. But when all have believed and done the will of God, then Christ will be all and in all. And when Christ is all and in all, then will God be all and in all; for the Father abides ever in the Son. How, then, is He shown to be weak, Who redeemed the weak?

 

  1. And lest you should by chance attribute to the weakness of the Son, that it is written, that God has put all things in subjection under Him; learn that He has Himself brought all things into subjection to Himself, for it is written: Our conversation is in heaven, from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus, Who shall change our vile body that it may be fashioned like His glorious body according to the working, whereby He is able to subdue all things unto Himself. Philippians 3:20-21 You have learned, therefore, that He can subdue all things unto Himself according to the working of His Godhead. …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD)

Source (  Exposition of the Christian Faith, Book V, Chapter 15 ):

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/34045.htm

 

 

 

Note: St. Ambrose of Milan is quite confident of his “universalism” (or non-Elect Salvation quotes in some way to be true) as he writes this as part of the  “Christian Doctrine” in his Book titled “… Exposition of the Christian Faith, Book V, Chapter 15 …” above where he must be summarizing what the ‘Common Christian Belief’ was even before St. Augustine of Hippo whom even he converted.

More regarding St. Ambrose of Milan in link below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrose

 

*Please notice how St. Ambrose of Milan uses Philippians 3:20 – 21’s subjection of all verses to mean ‘all will believe eventually’ which can be connected to the Hebrews 2:8 verse by “His Power” where the Verse below clearly differentiates the Christian Salvation alone to be as “Citizenship in Heaven” while the rest could be on the “Final New Earth” or some in the “Spirit realm” too* post-Judgment:

 

 

“… 20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself. …” (Philippians 3:20 – 21, NKJV)

 

“… You have put all things in subjection under his feet.” For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him. …” (Hebrews 2:8, NKJV)

 

Here’s are Bible Verses which seem to indicate these “Second Chance” given to “disobedient spirits in afterlife prisons” to “repent” there though they did NOT repent in their lifetime during Noah’s Preaching (implied) meaning they can only qualify for a non-Elect Salvation if such an interpretation is true:



“… 18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring [f]us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the SPIRITS in PRISON, 20who FORMERLY were DISOBEDIENT, [g]when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. …” (1 Peter 3:18 – 20, NKJV)

 

Note: The phrases “… CHRIST …  DEATH IN THE FLESH BUT MADE ALIVE by the Spirit, 19by whom also HE WENT AND PREACHED to the SPIRITS IN PRISON, 20who FORMERLY WERE DISOBEDIENT, …” means that Christ Preached in the Spirit World to some disobedient spirits in prison who repented there as indicated by the phrase “formerly disobedient”. This is what I think most likely it means here but I could be wrong.

St. Cyril of Alexandria fully affirms that the Context of 1 Peter 3:19 – 20 above refers to Christ Saving in Hell toward the Wicked too, to quote:

“… What occasion will we still have for weeping? On the contrary, will not what has happened to us, thanks to the Savior, cause us boundless rejoicing? He it was Who showed the way of salvation not only to us, but also went as herald to the once disobedient spirits of the underworld, as Peter says (1 Pet. 3:19-20). For it would not have done for His loving-kindness to be shown only to some; the manifestation of the gift had to extended to all of nature. For He spoke opportunely through the Prophets, “One part shall be rained upon, and the part on which I shall not rain shall be dried up.” (Amos 4:7) But the word which befits the Savior is: “Come to me, all you who labor and are weary, and I will give you rest.” (Mt. 11:28) Having proclaimed His message, then, to the spirits in the underworld and having said to those in fetters, “Come forth!” and to those in darkness, “Show yourselves!” (cf. Isa. 49:9) He raised up the temple of Himself in three days, (cf. Jn. 2:19) and renewed for nature even the ascent into heaven, presenting Himelf to the Father as a kind of first-fruits of humanity, having endowed those on earth with a share of the Spirit as a pledge of grace. (cf. 2 Cor. 5:5) (Festal Letter 2.8) …” …” – Blessed St. Cyril, Patriarch of Alexandria, Titles: The Pillar of Faith; Seal of all the Fathers; Bishop, Confessor, and Doctor of the Church, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 376 AD – c. 444 AD)

Source:  https://classicalchristianity.com/category/holyfathers/post-mortem/

 

More about “St. Cyril of Alexandria” is in link below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria

 

Also I do “not” think that any ‘saved wicked spirit’ of the past gets an inheritance in the Kingdom but ONLY some OUTSIDE the “Kingdom of GodSalvation as described in “POSSIBILITIES” on Page 1375 onward earlier in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.

 

Notice that 1 Peter 3:18 – 20 (quoted next) reveals that the ‘Spirit World’ Preaching of Christ to the ‘spirits in prison’ (“prison indicating these are not righteous spirits who in contrast would be in comfort regions such as Abraham’s Bosom) cause a change (possibly by them believing there) in that they became DISOBEDIENT NO MORE (indicating “repentance in the spirit world“) as evidenced by the phrase “FORMERLY DISOBEDIENT” in this Verse (quoted next) meaning that JUSTIFICATION for SALVATION can happen via BELIEVING AFTER SEEING but the Decision rests in the Hands of God regarding it.

 

 

 

Blessed St. Cyril of Jerusalem seems to attest that BELIEVING AFTER SEEING is POSSIBLE in HELL too

 

So it must be a type of non-Elect Salvation, right? [ Page 40 of the #LakeofFireBook ]

 

“… And if, like a Thomas, you were left out when the disciples were assembled to whom Christ shews Himself, when you do see Him be not faithless;4674 and if you do not believe, then believe those who tell you; and if you cannot believe them either, then have confidence in the print of the nails. If He DESCEND into HELL,4675 descend with Him. Learn to know the MYSTERIES of CHRIST THERE ALSO, what is the PROVIDENTIAL PURPOSE of the TWOFOLD DESCENT, to SAVE ALL MEN absolutely by His manifestation, OR THERE TOO ONLY THEM THAT BELIEVE ….” – Blessed St. Cyril, ArchBishop of Jerusalem, Doctor of the Church, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 313 AD – c. 386 AD, Point XXIV, Oration XLV. The Second Oration on Easter, via Philip Schaff, Page 641)

Source:

http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/1819-1893,_Schaff._Philip,_3_Vol_07_Cyril_Of_Jerusalem._Gregory_Nazianzen,_EN.pdf

 

Comment: The Word “MYSTERY” means “not every Christian will know this” while there is nothing limiting that to ‘those of the past only’ as in his sermon here as he seems to apply it to the “present” as though it is ‘still available’ at the time of Preaching. 

 

More regarding him in link here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Jerusalem

 

“… To deliver such an one unto Satan for the DESTRUCTION of the FLESH, that THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED in the DAY of the LORD JESUS .. …” (1 Corinthians 5:5, KJV)

 

“…   4In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking EVIL of you. 5THEY will give an account to Him who is ready to JUDGE the living and THE DEAD. 6For this reason the GOSPEL was PREACHED also to those who are DEAD, that they might be JUDGED according to men in the FLESH, but LIVE according to God in the SPIRIT. …” (1 Peter 4:4 – 6, NKJV)

 

 

So, Universalism could be true in that the “spirit” of the “Wicked” be submitted to God and change post-Spirit World-Judgment or Final Judgment?

 

The phrases in these quoted Bible Verses like “… JUDGED according to men in the FLESH, but LIVE according to God in the SPIRIT. …” here or “… DESTRUCTION of the FLESH, that THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED in the DAY of the LORD JESUS .. …” seem to be collective Final Judgment on these Wicked where after both their BODY + SOUL are DESTROYED in Gehenna (Lake of Fire, Matthew 10:28) they may be saved in these ‘spirit world locations’ without ever seeing nor entering the Kingdom of God in the Final New Earth and Heavens as their “everlasting punishment“.

 

“… And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to DESTROY BOTH SOUL and BODY in HELL [Gehenna]. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 10:28, NKJV)

 

Note: Christ Said that Gehenna/Lake of Fire/Hell “Destroys Body and Soul” (in Matthew 10:28) but never mention the “Spirit” part where humans have all three (as per 1 Thessalonians 5:23 too). Notice that if both the BODY and SOUL for the WICKED are destroyed IN GEHENNA as meaning ‘cease to exist’ then they CAN NEVER ENTER the FINAL HEAVEN NOR the FINAL NEW EARTH even NOR SEE it but live in the ‘spirit world’ abodes only (a possibility).  This is because one needs a “Body + Soul” to even “see” Heaven or Earth accordingly.

 

What is First Christianity’s Definition of “Body, Soul and Spirit in a Man” as St. Justin Martyr’s own words below reveal which can agree to the interpretation above?

 

… “For the body is the house of the soul; and the soul the house of the spirit. These three, in all those who cherish a sincere hope and unquestioning faith in God, will be saved. …” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church   (‘FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION’ CHAPTER X)

 

Source:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-resurrection.html

 

Maybe St. Justin Martyr himself understood the WICKED being MADE SUBJECT Verses implying their salvation likewise in the ‘spirit state’ in his own quotes below:

 

  1. i) St. Justin and the WICKED being made subject quote

 

“… The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first. “Moreover, the prescription that twelve bells be attached to the [robe] of the high priest, which hung down to the feet, was a symbol of the twelve apostles, who depend on the power of Christ, the eternal Priest; and through their voice it is that all the earth has been filled with the glory and grace of God and of His Christ. Wherefore David also says: ‘Their sound has gone forth into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.’ And Isaiah speaks as if he were personating the apostles, when they say to Christ that they believe not in their own report, but in the power of Him who sent them. And so he says: ‘Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ IT SIGNIFIES THAT THE WICKED SHALL BECOME SUBJECT TO HIM, and SHALL OBEY HIS COMMAND, and that ALL SHALL BECOME AS ONE CHILD. Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation. And in short, sirs,” said I, “by enumerating all the other appointments of Moses I can demonstrate that they were types, and symbols, and declarations of those things which would happen to Christ, of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him, and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself. But since what I have now enumerated appears to me to be sufficient, I revert again to the order of the discourse.” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church   (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER XLI & CHAPTER XLII, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

 

(Please also notice ‘carefully’ how St. Justin Martyr distinguishes the Church as One Body vs the Wicked converted as ‘One Child’ as two different entities as follows as I separate the quote above into two parts to try to understand this):

 

 

  1. a) The Wicked becoming Obedient/Subjected – as One Child

 

“…We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child, IT SIGNIFIES THAT THE WICKED SHALL BECOME SUBJECT TO HIM, and SHALL OBEY HIS COMMAND, and that ALL SHALL BECOME AS ONE CHILD. … and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself …” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER XLI & CHAPTER XLII, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’)

 

  1. b) The Church compared as an Analogy to that

 

“… Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellationof those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him,…” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER XLI & CHAPTER XLII, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’)

 

Source for both quotes above:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

 

 

  1. ii) St. Justin seem to understand that only the DEAD LIFELESS BODY PARTS eventually burn in GEHENNA or LAKE OF FIRE and NOT the “spirit

 

St. Justin Martyr may have also understood Matthew 10:28’s Destroy both “Body and Soul” in Gehenna/Lake of Fire and Mark 9:44 – 48’sunquenchable fire” together with the “worm that does not die” based on Isaiah 66:24 likewise as just eventually only the dead bodies or carcass” (with “no” soul, “no” spirit, hence no more conscious torment remains possibly thus viewing the ‘wicked made subject/obey’ as his quote earlier rings to refer to the ‘spirit state’ when collectively taken), to quote:

 

“… but some injunctions and acts were likewise mentioned in REFERENCE to the MYSTERY of CHRIST, on account of the hardness of your people’s hearts. And that this is so, God makes known in Ezekiel, [when] He said concerning it: ‘If Noah and Jacob and Daniel should beg either sons or daughters, the request would not be granted them.’ [Ezekiel 14:14] And in Isaiah, of the VERY SAME MATTER He spake thus: ‘The Lord God said, they shall both go forth and look on the MEMBERS [of the BODIES] of the MEN that have TRANSGRESSED. For their WORM shall NOT die, and their FIRE shall NOT be QUENCHED, and they shall be a gazing-stock to ALL FLESH.’ [Isaiah 66:24, Mark 9:44 – 48] So that it becomes you to ERADICATE this HOPE from YOUR SOULS, and hasten to know in what way forgiveness of sins, and a HOPE of INHERITING the PROMISED GOOD THINGS, shall be yours. But there is no other [way] than this,–to become acquainted with this Christ, to be washed in the fountain spoken of by Isaiah for the remission of sins; and for the rest, to live sinless lives.”… ” …” –  Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church      (c. 100AD – c. 160 AD, DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO, CHAPTER XLIV)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

 

The Spectacle to “ALL FLESH” in contrast to these dead bodies/carcass indicates that these wicked ones cannot inherit the Earth nor enjoy the Tastes of Heaven as the phrase “… ERADICATE this HOPE from YOUR SOULS, .…” seem to point to participating in an Immortal Resurrected Bodies in contrast. One thing is for sure: St. Justin’s usage here or anywhere else for the phrases “… their WORM shall NOT die, and their FIRE shall NOT be QUENCHED …” doesn’t seem to point to any ‘Conscious’ Torment eventually as only the “Carcass/Dead Body Pieces” seem to remain after some time as Isaiah 66:24 may likewise be recording this view as eternal as a reminder to never transgress God if the word here is “Eternal Fire” meant.

 

St. Justin seems to understand that the WICKED can be saved in some way which if his earlier quote means their body + soul part (outer “housecasings) are destroyed, then it leaves only the ‘wicked’s spirit’ to be made “subject or saved” as his own words collectively imply here “possibly” explaining the Bible Verses quoted earlier here in 1 Peter 3:18 – 20, 1 Corinthians 5:5, 1 Peter 4:4 – 6 too.

St. Irenaeous’ quote below seem to affirm even for these “… GNOSTIC HERETICS their  SOULS, REMAIN IN THE INTERMEDIATE PLACE; while, in as far as THEY ARE BODY, THEY WILL BE CONSUMED WITH THE REST OF MATTER .…” where the phrase “… CONSUMED WITH THE REST OF MATTER …” in the context of “… consumed by that fire …” seems to refer to the FINAL LAKE of FIRE (because only in that JUDGMENT can the WICKED’S BODIES be CONSUMED with the REST of MATTER which cannot happen before THEIR RESURRECTION OF JUDGMENT first, right?)

 

“… And then the DOCTRINE CONCERNING THE RESURRECTION  OF BODIES WHICH WE BELIEVE, will emerge true and certain [from their system]; since, [as we hold, ] God, when He resuscitates our mortal bodies which preserved righteousness, will render them INCORRUPTIBLE AND IMMORTAL. …. For the INTELLECT OF MAN-HIS MIND, thought, mental intention, and such like-is NOTHING ELSE THAN HIS SOUL; but the emotions and operations of the soul itself have no substance apart from the soul. What part of them, then, will still remain to enter into the Pleroma? For THEY THEMSELVES, in as far as THEY ARE SOULS, REMAIN IN THE INTERMEDIATE PLACE; while, in as far as THEY ARE BODY, THEY WILL BE CONSUMED WITH THE REST OF MATTER .…” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church    (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXIX, Points 2-partial, 3)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html

 

Eternal Hell can be true in that only their “body” or “corpse” (i.e. “dead bodies”) remain in the Lake of Fire with the “worms that never die” & “unquenchable fire” eternally like that as a reminder forever?

 

“… And they shall go forth, and look upon the CARCASSES OF THE MEN that have TRANSGRESSED AGAINST ME: for their WORM SHALL NOT DIE, NEITHER SHALL THEIR FIRE BE QUENCHED; and they shall be an abhorring unto ALL FLESH. …” (Isaiah 66:24, KJV)

 

Note: Did you notice that Isaiah 66:24 above only mentions that the “Carcasses” (or “Dead Bodies”, i.e. Body with no spirit and no soul) is burned forever and not that the ‘spirit is burned forever’? In Christ’s quote below referring to Isaiah 66:24 above in the context of “unquenchable fire”, He seems to point to ‘saving your body parts’ namely ‘your eye if it causes you to sin’ or ‘your hands if it causes you to sin’ etc. implying that the Wicked who suffer this Gehenna (Lake of Fire) Judgment do not have a “bodyanymore post-Judgment:

 

“… 42“But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me [i]to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. 43If your HAND causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to ENTER INTO LIFE [j]MAIMED, rather than having two hands, to go to [k]HELL [Gehenna], into the FIRE that shall NEVER BE QUENCHED— 44[l]where ‘Their WORM DOES NOT DIE And the FIRE is NOT QUENCHED.’ 45And if your FOOT causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to ENTER LIFE LAME, rather than having two feet, to be cast into [m] HELL [Gehenna][n]into the FIRE that SHALL NEVER BE QUENCHED— 46where ‘Their WORM DOES NOT DIE And the FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.’ 47And if your EYE causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD with ONE EYE, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into [o]HELL [Gehenna] FIRE— 48where ‘Their WORM DOES NOT DIE And the FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.’ 49“For EVERYONE will be SEASONED WITH FIRE, and[p] every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt. 50Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 9:42 – 50, NKJV)

The “smoke” of “their torment” and not “their torment” is said to last “forever and ever” toward the ‘worst & most cruel sinners of all who took the mark of the beast/antichrist’:

 

 

“…  9Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be TORMENTED with FIRE and BRIMSTONE in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.  And the SMOKE of THEIR TORMENT ascends FOREVER and EVER; and THEY HAVE NO REST DAY OR NIGHT, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name. …” (Revelation 14:11, NKJV)

 

 

Please compare with the slight different phrase used in Verses below as “their torment lasts forever and ever” where this refers to only these three individuals namely, “Satan (Devil), the Beast (Antichrist) and the False Prophet” who will be “tormented forever and ever”:

 

 

“… The DEVIL, who deceived them, was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and brimstone where the BEAST and the FALSE PROPHET are. And THEY WILL BE TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER. …” (Revelation 20:10, NKJV)

 

Please also notice that “Satan, the Devil” is only cast into this Lake of Fire after the 1000 years Millennial Reign (as he was locked up first in the Bottomless Pit) then released for a while at the end of that for one last deception (Revelation 20:1 – 7 specifies this clearly first) while “the beast” and “the false prophet” were “cast alive” into the Lake of Fire at the ‘start of the Millennial Reign’ after Christ Returns (Revelation 19:11 – 21) 1000 years earlier:

 

“… Then THE BEAST was captured, and with him THE FALSE PROPHET who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. THESE TWO WERE CAST ALIVE into the LAKE OF FIRE burning with brimstone. …” (Revelation 19:20, NKJV)

 

Comments:

 

  1. The phrase translated as “forever and ever” literally in Greek can mean “ages of Ages” where “ages” is the ‘subset’ of a larger class of “Ages” in which case the punishment part is said only to last to the smaller “ages” timeline (out of the total “Ages”) which would denote a very long but still limited (not infinite punishment) though permanent making Universalism possibly true.

 

  1. Eternal Hell believers generally take these as their principle verses especially Revelation 19:20’s “cast alive” and the “forever and ever” phrases which point to ‘being alive forever and ever in torment’.

 

  1. Some of those of the Annihilation position also view the phrase “forever and ever” to be “ages of Ages” as above except that they interpret the “torment lasting for ages (subset)” only and not the total Set of “Ages” to mean that these wicked have ‘ceased to exist’ by then and that’s why the ‘torment’ lasts only to the ‘subset ages’ and not the ‘total Ages’.

 

  1. Other Annihilation believers take this phrase to mean “forever and ever only” and thereby point to the phrase “smoke” in “smoke of their torment” as referring to these wicked being turned to ‘ash only’ claiming that ‘smoke’ refers to only a ‘completed part in burning in analogy’ and thus means that “these have ceased to exist” but only their ‘carcass’ (dead bodies) reduced to ash remains here “in smoke”.

 

  1. Among humans, only those who took the mark of the beast are said to have the ‘smoke of their torment’ to last ‘forever and ever’ (Revelation 14:11). Different levels of sin may merit different levels of Judgment (Luke 12:46 – 48) and so the Verse below describing the Lake of Fire for the rest who deserve it does “not” use the phrase “forever” nor the phrase “forever and ever” but only the phrase “their part” in the “Lake of Fire” (and no other Verse exists on this) hinting possibly that ‘their sentence could be shorter in length’ as the phrase ‘their part’ seem to refer to a ‘limited duration’:

 

“… But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars SHALL HAVE THEIR PART in the LAKE which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the SECOND DEATH.” …” (Revelation 21:8, NKJV)

 

Note: First death refers to the soul separated from body. So, the Second Death refers to both the “body and soul” are destroyed but the ‘spirit may still be saved’.

This Verse below refers to a ‘fallen believer’ as he is said to be made equal to ‘unbelievers’:

 

“…  46the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION WITH THE UNBELIEVERS47And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, SHALL BE BEATEN WITH MANY STRIPES48But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, SHALL BE BEATEN WITH FEW. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:46 – 48, NKJV)

 

Note: The Verses above Describe the ‘Final Judgment’ and not Purgatory-concept because it refers to a “day” when the “Master Returns” (possibly His Second Coming or Judgment Day after the Millennial Reign). Also, the phrases “SHALL BE BEATEN WITH MANY STRIPES” and “SHALL BE BEATEN WITH FEW” seems to indicate limitedness of this ‘Final Judgment’ for some humans (if not all according to the relative measure of how much they knew God’s Will) rather than two ‘forever sentences here where one is lesser in beating than another’. The words “few” and “many” used here indicate countability hence most likely “limited/finite” for if “infinite/unlimited beating” would be pointed too, equivalent phrases in Greek that can mean say “unending beating” should have been used instead.

 

Summary – Combining each of the possibilities above, it may be also “possible” to understand these Verses collectively as follows:  ‘Satan, the beast and false prophet’ are ‘tormented alive forever and ever’ (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 20:10). Among human beings, only the ones who took the mark of the beast may either be ‘tormented for ever and ever’ or ‘their dead bodies/carcass could be indicated by that smoke’ (Isaiah 66:24) which burns forever (Revelation 14:11) where other sinners could have a shorter/longer limited sentence (Luke 12:46 – 48) in “their part” in the Lake of Fire as the phrase forever and ever or for ever is not used on them in this Book (Revelation 21:8). However, Matthew 25:46 mentions “everlasting punishment” toward those who are cast into the Lake of Fire who are “resurrected for judgment” first (John 5:28 – 29) which means they have a “body, soul and spirit” (1 Thessalonians 5:23) before being cast into the Lake of Fire. Next,  we may see that this Lake of Fire or “Gehenna” Destroys both their “body and soul” part eventually (Matthew 10:28) and their “carcass/dead bodies” only “burn forever” (Isaiah 66:24) but “their spirit may be saved” eventually (1 Corinthians 5:5, 1 Peter 4:4 – 6). We can thus understand Christ’s Exhortation to escape “Gehenna” (Lake of Fire) in the Context of trying to ‘save literal body parts, hands, legs, eyes’ indicating “saving body + soul” from being destroyed (in Mark 9:42 – 50, Matthew 10:28) without which ‘a spirit’ can exist being saved (Luke 24:39) but cannot ‘see nor enter the Kingdom of God’ not being born again (John 3:3 – 5, 1 Peter 1:3, 1 Peter 1:23, Titus 3:5) in the resurrection to have “a body + soul” to live on the New Earth or New Heavens (Revelation 21:24 – 27). The eternal punishment of the wicked may thus be that they cannot see nor enter the New Earth nor New Heavens forever as they are spirit just like those in the ‘spirit world now’ cannot see/nor experience earth/heaven.

St. Augustine of Hippo himself affirms that we may contemplate such a possibility described above as “not Denying Holy Scripture” (and hence we are not heretics) even though he believed in Eternal Hell for the Wicked, to quote:

 

“… “There are very many in our day, who though not denying the Holy Scriptures, do not believe in endless torments. …” — St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 A.D.)

 

Source: https://www.mercyuponall.org/tag/church-fathers/

 

Or in here St. Augustine of Hippo’s  quote next seem to imply that the “eternal punishment” phrase can also refer to be LOST or CAST out of the KINGDOM of GOD (i.e. NEVER entering HEAVEN NOR the FINAL NEW EARTH) where he seems to imply continuous torment or some breaks which along such an interpretation can also mean that perhaps they can be saved in the spirit with an end of torment but the punishment is eternal in that they never get into the KINGDOM again in any way.

 

“… Yet even in his wrath–his wrath resting on them–he does not “shut up his mercy.” This is not to put an end to their eternal afflictions, but rather to apply or interpose some little respite in their torments. … Now, if this wrath were all there is in man’s damnation, and even if it were present only in the slightest degree conceivable–still, to be lost out of the Kingdom of God, to be an exile from the City of God, to be estranged from the life of God, to suffer loss of the great abundance of God’s blessings which he has hidden for those who fear him and prepared for those who hope in him240 –this would be a punishment so great that, if it be eternal, no torments that we know could be compared to it, no matter how many ages they continued. …” – Blessed St. Augustine of Hippo, Doctor of the Church, who influenced virtually all of subsequent Western philosophy and Catholic theology, as well as a significant amount of Protestant theology (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD, Points 112 – 113, CHAPTER XXIX. “The Last Things”, Enchiridion).

 

Source: http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/augustine_enchiridion_02_trans.htm

 

 

 

 

St. Irenaeous of Lyons refers to the CHURCH ONLY being MADE into the IMAGE of CHRIST [The SON of GOD] while MAN in general being made to PERFECTION and to MATURITY (possibly SAVED) in the future AFTER JUDGMENT that their APOSTASY will CORRECT and HEAL them (be it if it is for all men or some men inclusive of the “NATIONS who are SAVED” earlier surely, right?)

 

“…The Lord has therefore endured all these things on our behalf, in order that we, having been instructed by means of them all, may be in all respects circumspect for the TIME TO COME and that, having been RATIONALLY taught to love God, we may continue in His perfect love: for God has displayed LONG-SUFFERING in the case of MAN’s APOSTASY; while man has been instructed by means of it, as also the prophet says, “THINE OWN APOSTASY shall HEAL THEE;  [Jeremiah 2:19]” God thus DETERMINING ALL THINGS BEFOREHAND [Ephesians 1:11] for the BRINGING of MAN to PERFECTION [Ephesians 1:9 – 10], for his edification, and for the revelation of His DISPENSATIONS, that goodness may both be made apparent, and righteousness perfected, and that the CHURCH may be FASHIONED after the IMAGE of His Son, and that MAN may FINALLY be brought to MATURITY at SOME FUTURE TIME, becoming ripe through such privileges to see and comprehend God …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous, Bishop of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church    (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Book 4, Chapter XXXVII)

 

 

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html

 

 

 

Compare:

 

“… THINE OWN WICKEDNESS SHALL CORRECT THEE, AND THY BACKSLIDINGS SHALL REPROVE THEE:  know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts. …” (Jeremiah 2:19, KJV)

 

 

 

 

 

The Phrase “Saves all men” is contrasted against the word “Church” which can mean difference in that the CHURCH is more SPECIAL though ALL MEN will eventually be SAVED in some way where in quote above by St. Irenaeous of Lyons too, he clearly seems to contrast that ONLY the CHRISTIANS (CHURCH) become like CHRIST’S IMAGE as “sons of God” while the rest of men seem to implied to be ‘saved’ and brought to MATURITY at later time, compare:

“… And undoubtedly the preaching of the Church is true and stedfast, in which one and the same way of salvation is shown throughout the whole world. For to her is entrusted the light of God; and therefore the “wisdom” of God, by means of which she SAVES ALL MEN, “is declared in [its] going forth; it uttereth [its voice] faithfully in the streets, is preached on the tops of the walls, and speaks continually in the gates of the city.” For the Church preaches the truth everywhere, and she is the seven-branched candlestick which bears the light of Christ…” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XX, Point 1, Book V)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

 

 

Personally, in light of all these evidence, I stay “neutral” that one of these “possibilities” could be true as these are all found in “First Christianity” as demonstrated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can the Absence of the Charity Doctrine lead to Hell?

 

‘… Not everyone who Loves money realizes that they love money. The proof is in the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle which we live. CHRIST TAUGHT this clearly as we shall see next …’

 

1) Only a Pharisees type of Religious Order which “Loves money” will “deride God Himself for Teaching the Charity Doctrine”.

 

“… 14Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they [f]derided Him. 15And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God. 16“The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. 17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one [g]tittle of the law to fail. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:14 – 17, NKJV)

 

 

2) Is this the right CONTEXT for Verses above?

 

Yes! Which “all these things” these Phariseesheard” and “they DERIDED CHRIST” for TEACHING THAT DOCTRINE? Yes CONSECUTIVE VERSES before regarding what CHRIST TAUGHT to which HE CONDEMNS these PHARISEES is the LACK of IGNORING of the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE, Verses:

 

“…  9“And I say to you, MAKE FRIENDS FOR YOURSELVES by UNRIGHTEOUS [D]MAMMON, that when [e]you fail, they may receive you into an EVERLASTING HOME [4633 [e] skēnas/Dwelling/Tabernacle]. 10He who is FAITHFUL in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much. 11Therefore IF YOU HAVE NOT BEEN FAITHFUL IN THE UNRIGHTEOUS MAMMON, WHO WILL COMMIT TO YOUR TRUST THE TRUE RICHES? 12And if you have not been faithful in what is another man’s, who will give you what is your own? 13“No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. YOU CANNOT SERVE GOD AND MAMMON.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:9 – 13, NKJV)

 

Comments: Please notice that Verses 15 to 17 refers to this ABSENCE of CHARITY DOCTRINE as CHRIST was TEACHING this CONTEXT/TOPIC Primarily in VERSES 9 to 13 here as:

 

  1. “… “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. …”

 

CHRIST Reveals that without this #CharityDoctrine (which He Taught in Verses 9 to 13 here), such FALSE TEACHERS like the PHARISEES were JUSTIFYING THEMSELVES BEFORE MEN (by claiming this is NOT necessary or by TEACHING the OPPOSITE, which is #PROSPERITY LIFESTYLE as they were “LOVERS OF MONEY”)

 

  1. “… Forwhat is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God. …”

 

CHRIST Reveals that without this #CharityDoctrine (which He Taught in Verses 9 to 13 here), such FALSE TEACHERS like the PHARISEES were doing thing OPPOSITE TEACHINGS inclusive of the #PROSPERITY LIFESTYLE which is an ABOMINATION in the SIGHT OF GOD.

 

iii. “… 16“The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached …”

 

CHRIST Reveals that without this #CharityDoctrine (which He Taught in Verses 9 to 13 here), such FALSE TEACHERS like the PHARISEES were IGNORING the TRUE PREACHING of the KINGDOM of GOD as the LAW and PROPHETS SPOKE of this CHARITY DOCTRINE clearly and calls the CHARITY DOCTRINE as PART of PREACHING the KINGDOM OF GOD CONTEXT here. Can you “see” it?

 

  1. “… 17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one[g]tittle of the law to fail. …”

 

CHRIST Reveals that without this #CharityDoctrine (which He Taught in Verses 9 to 13 here), such FALSE TEACHERS like the PHARISEES were ignoring that HIS WORDS for TEACHING THIS CHARITY DOCTRINE will NEVER PASS AWAY! (yes, because that’s the ONLY TOPIC CHRIST is FOCUSING on in Luke 16 here even AFTER MENTIONING these COMMENTS as CHRIST Continues next in Verses 19 to 31 as DESCRIBING in DETAIL the ONLY LITERAL HELL DESCRIPTION FOUND IN SCRIPTURE with the SAME CONTEXT of IGNORING the CHARITY DOCTRINE likewise! as we shall see later)

Here are Luke 16:9 to 13 first is in another translation too:

 

“… 9Here’s the lesson: USE YOUR WORLDLY RESOURCES to BENEFIT OTHERS AND MAKE FRIENDS. Then, when your possessions are gone, they will welcome you to an ETERNAL HOME. 10“If you are faithful in little things, you will be faithful in large ones. But if you are dishonest in little things, you won’t be honest with greater responsibilities. 11And IF YOU ARE UNTRUSTWORTHY ABOUT WORLDLY WEALTH, who will trust you with the TRUE RICHES OF HEAVEN? 12And if you are not faithful with other people’s things, why should you be trusted with things of your own? “No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. YOU CANNOT SERVE GOD AND BE ENSLAVED TO MONEY.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:9 – 13, NLT)

 

3) Is there ANY OTHER CONTEXT SPECIFICALLY mentioned (not GENERALLY, which also refers to HIS LAW, inclusive) when CHRIST SPOKE all these WARNINGS in Luke 16?

 

  1. NO. The ONLY CONTEXT CHRIST REPEATED HIMSELF after WARNING the above is HE EXPLAINED YET AGAIN that this is NOT about HEAVENLY REWARDS CONTEXT only but rather that WITHOUT this #CHARITYDOCTRINELIFESTYLE (by “Relative Measure”) , one is headed STRAIGHT TO HELL in Luke 16:19 – 31 NEXT (“Consecutive Verses”) clearly as “it is Written” [To quote from Pages 983 to 984 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]:

 

“… 19“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and [h]fared sumptuously every day. 20But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21desiring to be fed with [i]the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

 

24“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

 

27“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:19 – 31, NKJV)

 

Conclusion

 

1) Reason for “#Hell” for the #RichMan is given as lack of #CharityDoctrineLifestyle and also #Prosperity and #Luxury living

 

“… 25But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. …”  – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:25, NKJV)

 

2) Claiming to #BelieveinChrist but living it out the same way as above is “denying Him by these same #ProsperityWorks which led that Rich Man to Hell” as that’s what the “Message of the #Prophets and #Torah is” according to #LordJesusChrist Himself here and so if anyone is a #RealProphetofGod he should likewise teach the “sameAS CHRIST HERE which is Living the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle and avoiding the #ProsperityLifestyle

 

“… ; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:30 – 31

 

3) Please notice carefully that nothing else is mentioned by CHRIST HIMSELF in these Verses in this ONLY DESCRIPTION OF HELL literally Found in the Bible (did you know?) Meaning that this must be the NO. 1 REASON PEOPLE GO TO HELL for if not CHRIST WOULD HAVE SAID DIFFERENTLY OR ADDED MORE REASONS BUT DID NOT agreeing even to JUDGMENT DAY VERSES in Matthew 25:31 to 46 likewise where He only Asks likewise regarding what #CharityDoctrine acts one did in regards to ‘… When I was Hungry, Thirsty, Naked, Homeless, etc. …’ as this is what the  #SPIRITOFPROPHECY Revealed about #Hell in these “Bible Verses” and best is by #LORDJESUSCHRIST Himself in these Verses as it is Written.

 

 

4) “Relative Measure” part

 

The “poor BEGGAR Lazarus” was Saved because he couldn’t do the #CharityDoctrine but yet he SUFFERED for RIGHTEOUSNESS’S SAKE because he was BULLIED FINANCIALLY via that RICH MAN who DID NOT WANT TO SHARE with him (can you “see” it?) fulfilling this Verse:

 

“… BLESSED are those who are PERSECUTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS’ SAKE, For THEIRS IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:10, NKJV)

 

5) What about the “Poor in Spirit” phrase?

[From Pages 353 to 356 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

“… BLESSED are the POOR IN SPIRIT For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. …” (Matthew 5:3, NKJV)

 

Comment: It is possible that Christ also Spoke of “Poor in Spirit” as different from “Poor” earlier (Luke 6:20) as the ending phrases for each Verse here is different namely, “… Kingdom of God …” (Luke 6:20) vs “… Kingdom of Heaven …” (Matthew 5:3). We know Christ can Repeat the Same thing “twice” within the same sentence even as per example Verse below too:

 

“… 23Then JESUS SAID TO HIS DISCIPLES, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is HARD for a RICH MAN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. 24And AGAIN I say to you, it is EASIER for a CAMEL to go through the EYE of a NEEDLE than for a RICH MAN to enter the kingdom of God. …” (Matthew 19:23 – 24, NKJV)

 

Can you see how Christ Repeats almost the same message “twice” in Verses above? Also please note that He Said this to “His Disciples” (Context).

 

 

To understand the “Context” correctly, we need to Learn from His Actual Apostles who wrote about this same Topic likewise as follows:

 

  1. i) Apostle St. James

 

“… 1Come now, YOU RICH, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! 2Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. 3Your GOLD and SILVER are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will EAT YOUR FLESH LIKE FIRE. You have HEAPED up TREASURE in the LAST DAYS. … 5You have lived on the earth in PLEASURE and LUXURY; you have fattened your hearts as in a DAY of SLAUGHTER. …” – Blessed St. James the Just, First Bishop of Jerusalem (James 5:1 – 3, 5, NKJV)

 

Comment: Where is the “Threshold” for Hoarding? Only God Knows.

 

 

We also know that in this ‘same letter’ (Context), Apostle St. James compared that the “literally financially poor on earth ones” are the “CHOSEN” (Elect of God) to be “RICH in FAITH” in Verse below:

 

“… Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not CHOSEN the POOR of THIS WORLD to be RICH IN FAITH and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? …” (James 2:5, NKJV)

 

 

Christ Affirms this Truth in this Church in Revelation which was “poor financially on earth (in “poverty“)” but RICH in the HEAVENLY CONTEXT, Verse:

 

“… 9“I know your works, TRIBULATION, and POVERTY  (but YOU ARE RICH); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a [e]synagogue of Satan.  …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Revelation 2:9, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

“… 8If you really FULFILL the ROYAL LAW according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; … For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. 14What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [f]your works, and I will show you my faith by [g]my works. …” (James 2:8, 13 – 18, NKJV)

 

Note: The “WorksApostle St. James talks about in Verses above for “Faith not to be dead” is NOT your Church attendance nor any other religious act but ONLY REFERRING to the #CHARITYDOCTRINE act of “… but you DO NOT GIVE THEM THE THINGS WHICH ARE NEEDED FOR THE BODY, what does it profit? 17Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.  …” meaning either ‘Other Works are secondary or of no value unless if the #CharityDoctrine is also present’. Well Written Scripture cannot be false and so we Preach this likewise only.

 

  1. ii) Apostle St. Paul

 

“… 17COMMAND THOSE WHO ARE RICH in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18Let THEM DO GOOD, that they be RICH IN GOOD WORKS, READY TO GIVE, WILLING TO SHARE, 19storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that THEY MAY LAY HOLD ON ETERNAL LIFE. …” (1 Timothy 6:17 – 19, NKJV)

 

Comment: Please notice that the CHARITY DOCTRINE ACTS of “Do Good” in the Context of “GIVING for FREE (implied)” and “SHARING for FREE (implied too)” is not to be done in ‘moderation level’ but they are COMMANDED to be “RICH” in such “GOOD WORKS” (Relative Measure meant).

 

This is clear that the ‘Level of Good Works of this Charity Doctrine type’ required of them is the “RICH” level as how they are “rich” in material wealth as opposed to those around them. Can you see it as it is Written please? “Command” means this is “notan option and it’s Written Clearly here that it is a “Commands unto ETERNAL LIFE (Context)” by the “Sola Fide Preacher Apostle St. Paul himself revealing this Correct Understanding“. We cannot measure this Threshold but God Will as implied by these Verses.

 

iii) First Christianity example of understanding this definition of “poor in spirit” likewise

 

If a “Rich Christian” ends up in “Hell” or ‘least in the Kingdom even if saved’ (Matthew 5:19 – 20) because of the “Prosperity Gospel” (which is entirely possible based on these Quoted Verses as it is Written), at least they will know that we Preached the Truth and Warned them. This was the First Christianity Position of Exegesis likewise as demonstrated by these Ancient Saint who even opposed Iconography which was becoming prevalent at that time:

 

“… 401 8r,3 But he does not know that the Old Testament also says, “The poor and the rich have met together: but the Lord is the maker of them both.” 402 And the New Testament agrees, and pronounces a BLESSING on the POOR who are LITERALLY POOR, and in ANOTHER PASSAGE a BLESSING on the POOR in SPIRIT, so that BOTH PRONOUNCEMENTS have FORCE. Thus Peter can point with pride to his LITERAL POVERTY and say, “Silver and gold have I none, but what I have, I give thee; in the name of Jesus Christ, rise up and walk,” 403 (4) so that the BLESSING of the ACTUALLY POOR means NOTHING CONTRADICTORY to the BLESSING of the POOR IN SPIRIT. The “POOR in SPIRIT” are persons in RIGHTEOUS POSSESSION of PROPERTY, while the “poor” are the humble, of whom Christ said, “I was an hungered, and YE GAVE ME MEAT, thirsty, and YE GAVE me DRINK,” and so on 81,5 Next he explains, ‘These (i.e., the POOR in SPIRIT) ACTED of THEIR ABUNDANCE”; … And do you see how, in the Old and the New Testaments, the poor are called blessed for piety, and the rich are called blessed for righteousness? …” – Blessed St. Epiphanius, Bishop of Salamis and the ‘Hammer of Heretics’, (c. 310 AD – c. 403 AD, ‘MANICHAEANS’ , “Panarion or Medicine-Chest”, Point 62.10, Pages 308 – 309)

Source:

https://archive.org/stream/EpiphaniusPanarionBksIIIII1/Epiphanius%20-%20_Panarion_%20-%20Bks%20II%20%26%20III%20-%201_djvu.txt

 

Comments:

  1. The “POOR in SPIRIT” refers to those RICH who PRACTICE the CHARITY DOCTRINE

“… The “POOR in SPIRIT” are persons in RIGHTEOUS POSSESSION of PROPERTY, while the “poor” are the humble, of whom Christ said, “I was an hungered, and YE GAVE ME MEAT, thirsty, and YE GAVE me DRINK,” and so on 81,5 Next he explains, ‘These (i.e., the POOR in SPIRIT) ACTED of THEIR ABUNDANCE”; …” – Blessed St. Epiphanius

 

  1. NO CHURCH FATHERS missed this #CharityDoctrine as shown for example in Pages 1181 to 1185 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook

6)  Other Example Words by CHRIST in the CHARITY DOCTRINE CONTEXT

 

In a similar context of “seeking His Kingdom”, Christ told to do this ‘Give to Charity’ in Verse below which may be heeded by the “Wise” Christians to “keep one’s lamp lit” if we read it in the Original Way these Verses are Written below:

 

“… 31“But SEEK HIS KINGDOM, and THESE THINGS will be ADDED TO YOU. 32“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom. 33“SELL YOUR POSSESSIONS and GIVE TO CHARITY; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys. 34“For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 35“Be dressed in readiness, and KEEP YOUR LAMPS LIT. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:31 – 35, NASB)

 

“…  (39Then the Lord said to him), “Now you Pharisees make the OUTSIDE OF THE CUP AND DISH CLEAN, but your INWARD part is full of GREED and WICKEDNESS. 40Foolish ones! Did not He who made the outside make the INSIDE also? 41But rather GIVE ALMS [CHARITY] of SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS are CLEAN to you. . …” – The KING, The Holiest One, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 11:39 – 41, NKJV)

 

Alms = Charity = Giving and Sharing for free Lifestyle.

 

In full, please consider, Almsgiving Doctrine  is a “must” for a True Christian if he is able

 

“… 39Then the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees make the OUTSIDE OF THE CUP and DISH CLEAN, but YOUR INWARD PART is full of [k]GREED and WICKEDNESS. 40FOOLISH ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also? 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. 42“But woe to you Pharisees! For YOU TITHE mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by JUSTICE and the LOVE of GOD These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE. 43Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the [m]best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. 44Woe to you, [n]scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like graves which are not seen, and the men who walk over them are not aware of them.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 11:39 – 45, NKJV)

 

Note: Even “Tithe-Paying” did NOT fulfill NEITHER the JUSTICE NOR THE LOVE OF GOD part in CHRIST’S OWN WORDS ABOVE, to quote again:

 

“… For YOU TITHE mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by JUSTICE and the LOVE of GOD …”

 

Also, the ALMSGIVING part is DOCTRINE as it is part of “things which YOU OUGHT TO HAVE DONE” as both JUSTICE and LOVE of GOD part refers to that ONLY religious Act here Christ Mentions here (Context) which is NOT cancelled for the New Testament

 

“… rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU.  …  These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE. …”

 

Self righteousness is doing things what is NOT WRITTEN and also DOING and SPEAKING AGAINST WHAT IS WRITTEN as CHRIST clearly Defined it in Verses below making “their WORSHIP VAIN” for following MAN MADE WAYS (those NOT WRITTEN):

 

“… Thus you have made the [b]COMMANDMENT OF GOD OF NO EFFECT BY YOUR TRADITION. 7HYPOCRITES! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8‘These people [c]DRAW NEAR TO ME WITH THEIR MOUTH, And HONOR ME WITH THEIR LIPS, But THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME. 9And IN VAIN THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES the COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.’ ” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 15:6 – 9, NKJV)

 

SUMMARY

 

Christ Himself Emphasized the #Almsgiving or #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as part of the Real Righteousness He Required where even compared to Keeping all the “Holiness” Commands of the 10 Commandments, He Still implied that ALMSGIVING DOCTRINE is BETTER and WITHOUT IT OUTWARD HOLINESS is only a WHITEWASHED TOMB (so believing in Christ and not Teaching or doing this Charity Doctrine is DENYING HIM IN ACTION), Yes, NO CHURCH has the RIGHT TO IGNORE GOD’S WILL for JUSTICE and LOVE of GOD which is the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE with THEIR COLLECTION MONEY (in God’s Name or personal income by choice), Verses:

 

“… 25“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you CLEANSE THE OUTSIDE OF THE CUP and dish, but INSIDE THEY ARE FULL OF EXTORTION and [l]SELF-INDULGENCE. 26Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like WHITEWASHED TOMBS which indeed appear BEAUTIFUL OUTWARDLY, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28Even so you also OUTWARDLY APPEAR RIGHTEOUS TO MEN, but INSIDE YOU ARE FULL OF HYPOCRISY AND LAWLESSNESS. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 23:25 – 28, NKJV)

 

“… 39Then the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees make the OUTSIDE OF THE CUP and DISH CLEAN, but YOUR INWARD PART is full of [k]GREED and WICKEDNESS. 40FOOLISH ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also? 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. 42“But woe to you Pharisees! For YOU TITHE mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and PASS BY JUSTICE and the LOVE of GOD These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE. 43Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the [m]best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. 44Woe to you, [n]scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like graves which are not seen, and the men who walk over them are not aware of them.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 11:39 – 45, NKJV)

 

Comment: That should reveal to us that MONEY SINS are the “Worst there is” and it is also clear in the “lives of the Pharisees likewise” (whom Christ attacked vehemently) where CHRIST DOES NOT point once that the Pharisees committed “adultery, murder, witchcraft, idolatry,” BUT HE POINTED their “PROSPERITY SINS” (Christ’s Phrase “Self Indulgence” in Matthew 23:25) with “Tithe collecting” (for self survival) but NOT CARING for the ALMSGIVING (CHARITY DOCTRINE) and especially “not” with their money as even Luke 11:39 – 42 has clearly Described this Context in Christ’s Most Blessed Words as it is Written calling them “whitewashed tombs” (because ‘outwardly they were religious in praying, fasting and Church Attendance with NO adultery, NO Murder, NO Witchcraft, NO idolatry etc’).

 

The Phrase “…. These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE.  …” is inclusive of the ONLY RELIGIOUS ACT CHRIST MENTIONS HERE (Context as ‘it is Written) referring to “… 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. …” which is the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE which is a MUST for any TRUE CHRISTIAN (according to ‘Relative Measure‘, implied) as CHRIST DIDN’T SAY it is an “option” but a “requirement” as His Phrase here is:

 

“… These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE.  …”

and from “WHAT YOU HAVE” (meaning NOT money collected in the Name of God only and Neither are the Priests/Pastors exempt from it as the ‘Pharisees were such’).

 

In short,  ‘believing in Christ’ and ‘continuing living like that’ wouldn’t HAVE SAVED the PHARISEES either as “True believing in Christ would do these ALMSGIVING or CHARITY DOCTRINE as CHRIST WARNS here as the LOVE OF GOD and JUSTICE He Refers to” instead of “Prosperity” (Self-Indulgence) as these Pharisees did.

 

If all these New Testament Verses (many Directly by Christ) did “not” matter, He Wouldn’t have Spoken All these, right?

 

Please be careful of the #Antichrist Spirit which is all about #Lawlessness where he will seduce you to NOT LISTEN TO CHRIST’S WORDS so one fails to do the FATHER’S WILL and in the end get REEJECTED from ENTERING HEAVEN type of Salvation as CHRIST WARNED, Verses:

 

“… 14Because NARROW is the gate and DIFFICULT is the way which leads to life, and there are FEW who FIND IT … 21“NOT EVERYONE who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall ENTER the kingdom of HEAVEN, but he who DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN. 22MANY will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I NEVER KNEW YOU; depart from Me, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS!’ 24“Therefore WHOEVER HEARS THESE SAYINGS OF MINE, and DOES THEM, I will liken him to a WISE MAN WHO BUILT HIS HOUSE ON THE ROCK: …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (Matthew 7:21 – 24, NKJV)

 

Believing Him is only when we DO HIS WORDS (as Matthew 7:24 above Reveals) and CONVERSIONS of MANY are REJECTED here because ‘converting is not doing His Will’ unless it fulfills HIS COMMANDS.

 

Where is the threshold?

 

Let God Decide.

 

 

Sounds Difficult?

 

Yes, “no” easy faith exists as Christ already Warned because His Commands are difficult (same Context as He Spoke both Matthew 7:14 and Matthew 7:24 in this same conversation):

 

“… 14Because NARROW is the gate and DIFFICULT is the way which leads to life, and there are FEW who FIND IT … 24“Therefore WHOEVER HEARS THESE SAYINGS OF MINE, and DOES THEM, I will liken him to a WISE MAN WHO BUILT HIS HOUSE ON THE ROCK: …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ  (Matthew 7:14,s 24, NKJV)

 

Can you see which part is NARROW and DIFFICULT which CHRIST MEANTS that it POINTS ONLY to HIS COMMANDS in HIS OWN WORDS?

 

No one with the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD will complain about the Difficulty of His Commands because HIS SPIRIT HELPS THEM FULFILL it , Verses:

 

“… 15“If YOU LOVE ME, [d]KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]HELPER, that He may ABIDE WITH YOUR FOREVER— 17the SPIRIT of TRUTH, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.  …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:15 – 17, NKJV)

 

The GREATEST REWARD of all is GETTING CLOSER to GOD via this CHARITY DOCTRINE COMMANDS (apart from PRAYER & FASTING & HOLINESS COMMANDS too) as CHRIST TAUGHT ALL these AS DOCTRINE and so ANY TRUE CHURCH OUGHT TO AS WELL without ‘skipping’ any:

“… 19“A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21He who has MY COMMANDMENTS AND KEEPS THEM, it is HE WHO LOVES ME. And HE WHO LOVES ME will be LOVED BY MY FATHER, and I WILL LOVE HIM and [f]MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:19 – 21, NKJV)

 

“… 8DRAW NEAR TO GOD and HE WILL DRAW NEAR TO YOU. …” (James 4:8, NKJV)

 

“… 21He WHO HAS MY COMMANDMENTS and KEEPS THEM, it is HE WHO LOVES ME. And he who loves Me will be LOVED BY MY FATHER, and I will LOVE HIM AND [F]MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM.” 22Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23JESUS ANSWERED AND SAID TO HIM, “If ANYONE LOVES ME, HE WILL KEEP MY WORD; and My FATHER WILL LOVE HIM, and WE WILL COME TO HIM AND MAKE OUR HOME WITH HIM. 24He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me. …” (John 14:21 – 24, NKJV)

 

Hope for the Best but Prepare for the Worst in Terms of the #CharityDoctrine Command

 

7) The unjust steward Luke 16 possibility for non-Elect Salvation?

 

This part is a “possibility” only because it is hard to interpret this. However, because CHRIST HIMSELF mentions all these in this SAME LUKE 16 CONTEXT, we need to consider these “Mysterious” part as well. Let’s begin. Verses:

 

Mystery part: since Christ Commended the “unjust steward” calling him as “Prudent/Wise” and in the above as He Says that the “Children of the World” are “more prudent” in this aspect of the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle, perhaps such ones could be the “possible” good non-Christians who did the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle as echoed in Matthew 25:31 – 46 too:

 

Note: As I have said earlier, this part is “not” Doctrine but a “possibility” only. Also if the “Unjust Steward” was “unsaved” and went to HELL Eternally, then why is Christ commending him as “Wise” and Asks His Children/the “Children of Light” to emulate this ‘wiser son of the World’ in this aspect?

 

Please also notice that the “Context” of this Parable is still “benefitting others with what God has Given us or “His Goods” to begin with” as this “unjust steward” first did as it is described earlier in Luke 16:1 – 7, quoted below:

 

“… 1And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had WASTED HIS GOODS. 2And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward. 3Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed. 4I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses. 5So he called every one of his lord’s debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owest thou unto my lord? 6And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty. 7Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore. …” – The KING Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:1 – 7, KJV)

 

What does the PARABLE above mean which the UNJUST STEWARD DID? CHRIST Explains the MEANING of this PARABLE clearly as the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE ONLY as few Verses after the ABOVE Parabolic Way of explaining above, CHRIST EXPLAINS this MEANING LITERALLY too (so NO GUESSING is done here as to its CORRECT INTERPRETATION) as follows:

 

“… 8And the LORD COMMENDED the UNJUST STEWARD, because he had done WISELY: for the CHILDREN OF THIS WORLD are in their generation WISER than the CHILDREN OF LIGHT. 9And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the MAMMON OF UNRIGHTEOUSNESS; that, when ye FAIL, they may RECEIVE YOU INTO EVERLASTING HABITATIONS. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:8 – 9, KJV)

or in another translation:

“… 8“The rich man had to admire the DISHONEST RASCAL for being so SHREWD. And it is true that the CHILDREN OF THIS WORLD are MORE SHREWD in dealing with the world around them than are the CHILDREN OF THE LIGHT. 9Here’s the lesson: USE YOUR WORLDLY RESOURCES to BENEFIT OTHERS and make friends. Then, when YOUR POSSESSIONS ARE GONE, they will WELCOME YOU TO AN ETERNAL HOME. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:8 – 9, NLT)

 

Note: The Word translated “EVERLASTING/ETERNAL” (Aeonian) in this Verse above (Luke 16:8) is the same word used commonly to prove “ETERNAL life Vs ETERNAL Hell” (e.g. Matthew 25:46). So whether it is “Eternal or to the Age/Aeon” it signifies the ‘Heavenly Home’ or “Everlasting Habitations” which is affected by the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle of how Christians ought to use ‘our worldly possessions to benefit others’ as Christ Himself Clearly Teaches in Verses above.

[From Page 957 of the #CharityDoctrineBook ]

Luke 16:9 with the same word “aiōnious” (Greek No:166) or Aeon/Age/Olam) which is translated as “Eternal” in “Eternal Life” vs “Eternal Punishment” in Matthew 25:46

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/16-9.htm

 

 

(Source: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/25-46.htm )

In short, the CHARITY DOCTRINE has “ETERNAL CONSEQUENCES” as both Luke 16:9 and even Matthew 25:46 mentions it in the CHARITY DOCTRINE CONTEXT only (here’s Matthew 25’s CHARITY DOCTRINE CONTEXT not quoted earlier here in full):

 

“…  37“Then the RIGHTEOUS WILL ANSWER Him, saying, ‘Lord, When Did We See You Hungry And Feed YOU, or THIRSTY AND GIVE YOU DRINK? 38WHEN DID WE SEE YOU A STRANGER and TAKE YOU IN, OR NAKED AND CLOTHE YOU? 39Or WHEN DID WE SEE YOU SICK, OR in PRISON, AND COME TO YOU?40And THE KING WILL ANSWER and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I SAY TO YOU, INASMUCH AS YOU DID IT TO ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHREN, YOU DID IT TO ME. 41“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46And these will go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT, but the righteous into ETERNAL LIFE.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 25:23, 37 – 46, NKJV)

 

Please also notice that  this steward is most likely “NOT” a Christian because Christ is most likely calling him as an example of the ‘son of this world’ as opposed to the “Sons of Light” and calls him “unjust” despite doing this Charity Doctrine Lifestyle part rightly meaning it’s still not a sincere act fully but tainted with “self interest to save himself“:

 

“… 8And the LORD COMMENDED the UNJUST STEWARD, because he had done WISELY: for the CHILDREN OF THIS WORLD are in their generation WISER than the CHILDREN OF LIGHT. …” (Luke 16:8, KJV)

 

Notice that this “Unjust Steward” is called “CHILDREN of this WORLD” (non-Christians) as opposed to “CHILDREN of LIGHT” (Christians) and so it’s “possible” that “if saved”, such “Children of the World” (non-Christians) with the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE may be SAVED with “earthly/Terrestrial Resurrection bodies as part of the Nations who are saved who may need healing of the Tree of Life too for Judgment in their final resurrected bodies” as opposed to the “Children of Light” (Christians) who are Saved with “Heavenly/Celestial  Resurrection Bodies who are the BRIDE/LAMB’s WIFE” as may be compared and described in these Verses:

“… Come, I will show you the [g]BRIDE, the LAMB’S WIFE.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED ME THE [H]GREAT CITY, the [I]HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN from God,  … 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE. …” (Revelation 21:9 – 10, 24 – 27, NKJV)

 

Note: The fact that the BIBLE clearly mentions the LAMB’S WIFE (BRIDE = Church) and the “NATIONS of those who are SAVED” differently in the above POSSIBLY indicating that these are DIFFERENT!

 

“… 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. … In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the TREE OF LIFE, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 21:24 , 22:2, NKJV)

 

Note: The “terrestrial/earthly body salvation” for some other “nations who are saved with kings of the earth” (the word ‘earth’ signifying ‘terrestrial salvation’ with ‘terrestrial body too’) may be revealed in Verses above as they Visit the Heavenly City toward only those who are Written in the Lamb’s Book of Life where ‘His Church/Bride is’ (Who Alone have Celestial Resurrection Heavenly Body; Verses:

 

“… 39ALL FLESH IS NOT THE SAME FLESH, but there is one kind [f]of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. 40There are also [g]CELESTIAL BODIES and [h]TERRESTRIAL BODIES; but the GLORY of the CELESTIAL is one, and the GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42So also is the RESURRECTION of THE DEAD.  …” (1 Corinthians 15:39 – 42, NKJV)

 

 

In 1 Corinthians 15:39 – 42, it’s clear that there are two types of Resurrection bodies mentioned in the Context of the Resurrection of the Dead (1 Corinthians 15:42) namely the “Celestial” (Heavenly) Vs the “Terrestrial” (Earthly) of which I conjecture that the  Celestial one refers to Christians only because only they become one flesh with Christ (as Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32 Reveals) while the rest are only earthly bodies as Christ does “not” become One Flesh with them as it’s only towards His Bride.

 

Please also notice very carefully in 1 Corinthians 15:40 that two types of “Glory” are mentioned for the final Resurrection Bodies namely “but the GLORY of the CELESTIAL is one,” Vs ” and the GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another.” (in 1 Corinthians 15:40).

 

Now the word “Glory” in “… GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another …” (mentioned clearly in 1 Corinthians 15:40) in this Context of “Resurrection of the Dead” (1 Corinthians 15:42)  itself indicates that some of the of the TERRESTRIAL RESURRECTION BODIES are also “Saved” for it doesn’t seem logical for a body raised with “glory” to be “unsaved“. To say that this “Terrestrial Glory” ones refers to some lower Christians contradicts Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32 which describes Christ Sharing One Flesh with all Christians in some way and so they must be “CELESTIAL (Heavenly) RESURRECTION GLORY Bodies only“.

 

Recall: The “Bride” is “All Christians” and “Heavenly Jerusalem” is our common congregational dwelling according to these Verses:

 

“… 26but the JERUSALEM above is FREE, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL …” (Galatians 4:26, NKJV)

 

“… just as CHRIST also LOVED the CHURCH and gave Himself for her, 26that He might [g]SANCTIFY and cleanse her with the washing of water BY THE WORD, 27that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. … and the TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” 32This is a GREAT MYSTERY, but I speak CONCERNING CHRIST AND THE CHURCH …” (Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32, NKJV)

Note: Verse in Ephesians 5:32 above Reveals that the “Celestial/Heavenly ResurrectionBody to only belong to CHRISTIANS on the SOLE REASON that ONLY CHRISTIANS become ONE FLESH (Resurrection Flesh) with the LORD while the “TERRESTRIAL/Earthly Resurrection” seemed to be Promised to those “…. NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED …” (Revelation 21:24, NKJV) which also includes some (or all) who NEED HEALING FIRST from the LEAVES of the TREE OF LIFE as this Verse seems to point as “… The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 22:2, NKJV).

But regardless, this “unjust steward” is still called by Christ as “WISE” in Verse above and if he went to an “EVERLASTING/ETERNAL HELL HOME” in the Spirit World (Luke 16:9), then why is Christ “Commending” him (Luke 16:8) and asking Christians to follow his example in this Charity Doctrine Lifestyle of benefitting others with “this World’s goods freely” in some way (be it spiritual or physical goods sharing & giving which God Gave to us First, meaning of “His Goods” instead of wasting it in self only, Luke 16:1 – 7)?

 

Here are two FOUR Christianity Quotes by St. Irenaeous of Lyons himself using both the words CHURCH and MAN distinctly, to quote:

 

 

  1. i) Where he refers to the CHURCH ONLY being MADE into the IMAGE of CHRIST [The SON of GOD] while MAN in general being made to PERFECTION and to MATURITY (possibly SAVED) in the future AFTER JUDGMENT that their APOSTASY will CORRECT and HEAL them (be it if it is for all men or some men inclusive of the “NATIONS who are SAVED” earlier surely, right?)

“…The Lord has therefore endured all these things on our behalf, in order that we, having been instructed by means of them all, may be in all respects circumspect for the TIME TO COME and that, having been RATIONALLY taught to love God, we may continue in His perfect love: for God has displayed LONG-SUFFERING in the case of MAN’s APOSTASY; while man has been instructed by means of it, as also the prophet says, “THINE OWN APOSTASY shall HEAL THEE;  [Jeremiah 2:19]” God thus DETERMINING ALL THINGS BEFOREHAND [Ephesians 1:11] for the BRINGING of MAN to PERFECTION [Ephesians 1:9 – 10], for his edification, and for the revelation of His DISPENSATIONS, that goodness may both be made apparent, and righteousness perfected, and that the CHURCH may be FASHIONED after the IMAGE of His Son, and that MAN may FINALLY be brought to MATURITY at SOME FUTURE TIME, becoming ripe through such privileges to see and comprehend God …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous, Bishop of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church    (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Book 4, Chapter XXXVII)

 

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html

 

 

Compare:

 

“… THINE OWN WICKEDNESS SHALL CORRECT THEE, AND THY BACKSLIDINGS SHALL REPROVE THEE:  know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts. …” (Jeremiah 2:19, KJV)

  1. ii) The Phrase “Saves all men” is contrasted against the word “Church” meaning difference:“… And undoubtedly the preaching of the Church is true and stedfast, in which one and the same way of salvation is shown throughout the whole world. For to her is entrusted the light of God; and therefore the “wisdom” of God, by means of which she SAVES ALL MEN, “is declared in [its] going forth; it uttereth [its voice] faithfully in the streets, is preached on the tops of the walls, and speaks continually in the gates of the city.” For the Church preaches the truth everywhere, and she is the seven-branched candlestick which bears the light of Christ…” – Blessed Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XX, Point 1, Book V)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

Note: St. Ireaneous of Lyons may have understood “the many” saved as ‘all men’ in ‘his own words’ as follows: The Many many sinners in Adam is the same Many which will be Made Righteous by Lord Jesus Christ (POSSIBLE Context for Romans 5:18 – 19)

Under the Equation: ‘Adam + the Many’ = All Men = All Human Beings Ever Existed

iii) Lord Jesus Christ is exempt from the equation above simply because He is God in Flesh and not a mere Man only & Alone is never affected by Adam’s sin in any way. That quote:

“… For as by the disobedience of the one man [Adam] who was originally moulded from virgin soil, the many [all other humans] were made sinners, and forfeited life; so was it necessary that, by the obedience of one man [Lord Jesus Christ], who was originally born from a virgin, [the] many [same all other humans by earlier definition/context here] should be justified and receive salvation. Thus, then, was the Word of God made man, as also Moses says: “God, true are His works.” But if, not having been made flesh, He did appear as if flesh, His work was not a true one. But what He did appear, that He also was: God recapitulated in Himself the ancient formation of man, that He might kill sin, deprive death of its power, and vivify man; and therefore His works are true.” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XVIII, Book III)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html

*[Emphasis mine] – or am I reading St. Irenaeous’ explanation wrongly here? I don’t know

 

  1. iv) Irenaeous seem to imply that EVIL (or its damage from JUDGMENT) is WHAT IS HEALED via the TREE OF LIFE

    [so POSSIBLY the LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS in Revelation 22:2 for the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED mentioned in Revelation 21:24’s Context could be explained by his quote below which is important since “… NO PROPHECY of SCRIPTURE is of ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION, …” (2 Peter 1:20), St. Irenaeous being so close to the one who wrote this Book of Revelation itself can be a strong indicator that he is revealing the most accurate interpretation for this part as follows]

 

“… 6. Wherefore also He drove him out of Paradise, and removed him far from the TREE OF LIFE, NOT because He envied him the TREE OF LIFE, as some venture to assert, but because He pitied him, [and did not desire] that he should CONTINUE a SINNER FOR EVER, NOR that the SIN which SURROUNDED him should be IMMORTAL, and EVIL INTERMINABLE and IRREMEDIABLE. But He set a bound to his [state of] sin, by interposing death, and thus causing sin to cease, Romans 6:7 putting an end to it by the dissolution of the flesh, which should take place in the earth, so that man, ceasing at length to live to sin, and dying to it, might begin to live to God. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church    (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Point 6, Chapter XXIII, Book 3)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html

 

Comment: In light of St. Irenaeous’ quote and his proximity with Blessed Apostle St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, the way evil/sin may be “healed” as his quote above seems to link it to the “TREE OF LIFE Context” may thus be connected in some way to the Verses below where the Verses for “LEAVES” of the “TREE OF LIFE” are for the “HEALING” of the “NATIONS” [Compare, Recap]:

 

“… 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. … In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was THE TREE OF LIFE, which bore TWELVE FRUITS, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 21:24 , 22:2, NKJV)

 

  1. v) There is also a ‘possibility’ that St. Irenaeous may have believed in Christ Centered Universalism as per quote below and even the quotes earlier can be interpreted in that way too (“difficult” indeed, from Page 1463 of the #SafeRouteSciripturallyBook )

 

“… Christ, who was called the Son of God before the ages, was manifested in the fulness of time, in order that He might cleanse us through His blood, who were under the power of sin, presenting us as pure sons to His Father, if we yield ourselves obediently to the chastisement of the Spirit. AND IN THE END OF TIME HE SHALL COME TO DO AWAY WITH ALL EVIL, AND TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS [Colossians 1:16,20*], in order that there may be AN END OF ALL IMPURITIES. … ” – Blessed St. Irenaeous, Bishop of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church   (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Fragment XXXIX, FRAGMENTS FROM THE LOST WRITINGS OF IRENAEUS)

Translation Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-fragments.html

 

7) YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS to ENTER HEAVEN as a REWARD as CHRIST TAUGHT

 

1) Firstly, why is this important? Christ Said that “not” everyone “Enters Heaven” but only those who can “do this” referring to “your righteousness” must be greater than the “Pharisees'”

 

“… For I say unto you, That except YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS [1343 dikaiosynē] shall EXCEED the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in NO CASE ENTER into the kingdom of HEAVEN. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:20, KJV)

 

The Greek Word used for “Righteousness” here is “1343 [e] dikaiosynē” which can be verified in Interlinear below too:

 

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/5-20.htm

 

 

2) What is meant by “YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS [1343 dikaiosynē]” here?

The Protestant Commentary below confesses some truths but is trying to ‘evade the Jewish Context that “YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS [1343 dikaiosynē]” here means CHARITY DOCTRINE ACTS. Really? to quote:

 

“… The later Jews often used “righteousness” tsedhaqah as meaning alms, that being in their view the foremost righteousness. (Compare our modern use of “charity” to denote almsgiving.) This use is seen in the Talmud and in the frequent translations of the Hebrew word for “righteousness” (tsedhaqah) by “alms” (eleemosune) in the Septuagint, though nothing warranting this is found in the Hebrew Old Testament, or in the true text of the New Testament. This notion of righteousness as alms being well-nigh universal among Jews in Jesus’ day, and spreading even among Christians, accounts for “alms” in Matthew 6:1, where the true text has “righteousness”: “Take heed that ye do not your righteousness before men, to be seen of them” (the Revised Version (British and American) with Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Bezae, the Latin versions, etc.). The oriental versions which generally read “alms” may be accounted for on the supposition that “alms” was first written on the margin as explaining the supposed meaning of “righteousness,” and then, as according with this accepted oriental idea, was substituted for it in the text by the copyists. …” – International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Source: https://biblehub.com/topical/a/alms.htm

If you couldn’t see it, please let me clarify the above for you:

 

  1. The quote ” … The later Jews often used “righteousness” tsedhaqah as meaning alms, that being in their view the foremost righteousness. …” = refers to the ‘Jews who lived in Christ’s Time’. So this is the Context of meaning in which these Jews themselves understood it.

 

  1. The quote “… This notion of righteousness as alms being well-nigh universal among Jews in Jesus’ day, and spreading even among Christians, accounts for “alms” in Matthew 6:1, where the true text has “righteousness” … The oriental versions which generally read “alms” may be accounted for on the supposition that “alms” was first written on the margin as explaining the supposed meaning of “righteousness,” and then, as according with this accepted oriental idea, was substituted for it in the text by the copyists. …” .

 

 

Example:

 

“… 6 “Be careful not to parade your ACTS of TZEDAKAH in front of people in order to be seen by them! If you do, you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 So, when you do tzedakah, don’t announce it with trumpets to win people’s praise, like the hypocrites in the synagogues and on the streets. Yes! I tell you, they have their reward already! 3 But you, when you do tzedakah, don’t even let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. 4 Then your tzedakah will be in secret; and your Father, who sees what you do in secret, will reward you. …” – The KING Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 6:1 – 4, Complete Jewish Bible, CJB)

 

Source:

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%206%3A1-18&version=CJB

 

Note: The Complete Jewish Bible is done & used by the “Messianic Jews” link:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Bible_translations

 

3 . The Problem here is some of the “Oriental” Text which refers to the word “YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS [1343 dikaiosynē]” here in Matthew 6:1 in Hebrew Versions in reads as “‘ACTS of TZEDAKAH’” as the CJB version here also shows. So this Protestant scholar is vehemently ‘trying’ to say that “‘righteousness'” is the Original Word in Koine Greek and we should not take into account the “Jewish Versions” because these are ‘”çhanged by copyists'” to mean ‘”ACTS of TZEDAKAH“‘ (in Matthew 6:1). Can you see the dilemma here?

 

  1. Why not the Protestant Scholar just admit that “righteousness” here includes also these “‘ACTS of TZEDAKAH‘” as the Jewish Context and History even to the audience Christ Spoke to warrants? They cannot admit it because if they did, then they will have to include a CHARITY DOCTRINE in their Theology which somehow Protestants have ignored or sidelined as ‘not part of the RIGHTEOUSNNESS required to enter HEAVEN’ (as this same Greek Word is found in Matthew 5:20’s Christ’s Requirement for ANYONE ENTERING HEAVEN). Can you see it?

Conclusion – The Biblical Solution

 

I call it ‘The Biblical Solution’ simply because by using ány ‘Protestant Bibles’ itself and without even knowing the Jewish Context either, with “Sola Scriptura”  approach  itself is easy to Prove the following from CHRIST’S OWN DIRECT WORDS as FOLLOWS:

 

1) Matthew 5:20’s “YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS [1343 dikaiosynē]”  refers to the exact same word in Koine Greek in Matthew 6:1 where the FIRST righteousness Christ Refers to is ONLY AMSGIVING or the CHARITY DOCTRINE in Matthew 6:2 – 4 making this Context as strongest.

 

2) Since Christ didn’t end His Sermon on Matthew 6:4, neither should we. In the next set of Verses, Matthew 5:20’s “YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS [1343 dikaiosynē]” can include “Prayers” as Matthew 6:5 – 15 Describes next in ‘that order’.

 

3) Only then Christ’s Sermon touches on “Fasting” which can also be part of Matthew 5:20’s “YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS [1343 dikaiosynē]” as Matthew 6:16 – 18 talks about.

 

 

4) Next, Christ Returns to the Almsgiving Context as He Says “not” to store treasures on earth but in Heaven (so much for the ‘prosperity gospel’) in Matthew 6:19 – 34. Please note that the “treasure in heaven context not on earth for seeing where our heart is” (Matthew 6:19 – 21) whether with “God or Mammon” (Matthew 6:24) with the Jewish Idiom of “Good Eye” referring to a “Generous Person”(Matthew 6:22 – 23, Proverb 22:9 literally reads this Jewish Idiom Christ is Using here as ‘Good Eye’ which translators render its meaning as “Generous” in Bibles).

 

5) This is an Almsgiving or Charity Doctrine yet again because in Matthew 6:25 – 34 Christ Exhorts to “Seek His Kingdom“, He Says äll these things will be added unto you”(Matthew 6:33) which is Recorded by Luke in this same Context together with the “treasure in heaven & where our heart is” part as nothing else than the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle (as no other transaction/righteous act is mentioned by Christ for this) in Luke 12:30 – 34. Can you see it?

 

6) In Matthew 5:20 Christ Required “YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS [1343 dikaiosynē]” to exceed the Righteousness of the Pharisees to enter Heaven where in Matthew 6:1 which is not the ritualistic Torah observances which He doesn’t mention at all in Matthew 5 to Matthew 7 (Sermon on the Mount at all) as some torah-keeping Christians err because they don’t read His Entire Sermon here but simply quote the Old Testament  parts which Christ didn’t quote at all here – out of context.

 

7) This is important because in Matthew 7:20 – 24 He DENIES MANY so called-CHRISTIANS from Heaven who ‘Prophesied, Cast Out Demons, did Miracles’ in “His Name” and compares it against the ‘House on the Rock’ to refer to those WHO DO THESE SAYINGS (Matthew 7:24) only referring to anything found from Matthew 5 (start of Sermon) to Matthew 7 (end of Sermon) where we are discussing Matthew 6’s aspect which clearly includes ‘”Älmsgiving”/Charity Doctrine mentioned first“‘ (Matthew 6:1 – 4), ‘”Prayer next’” (Matthew 6:5 – 15) followed by ‘”Fasting then” (Matthew  6:16 – 18) and then returns to the ‘”Charity Doctrine part of Treasure in Heavens’” (Matthew 6:19 – 21), the ‘”Charity Doctrine aspect of Generosity with the GOOD EYE Idiom’” as proof of not serving Mammon but God (Matthew 6:22 – 24) and ends this section with ‘”Seek His Kingdom & Righteousness“‘ (in Matthew 6:25 – 34) which Matthew didn’t record further ‘how?’ but LUKE clearly Recorded it as the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE to get the ‘”Treasures in Heaven and Determine Truly where our heart is” (in Luke 12:30 – 35 which was Spoken by Christ in the Context of SEEK His KINGDOM, as He Did here too, so SAME CONTEXT).

 

8.) In short, in Matthew 5:20 Christ Required “YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS [1343 dikaiosynē]” to exceed the Righteousness of the Pharisees to enter Heaven where in Matthew 6:1 Christ Begins by DEFINING which RIGHTEOUSNESS HE REQUIRES in this NEW TESTAMENT as these three major things only namely (in the Order He Mentioned:

 

  1. Charity Doctrine/Almsgiving (Matthew 6:1 – 4).

 

  1. Prayer (Matthew 6:5 – 15)

 

  1. Fasting (Matthew 6:15 – 18)

 

  1. Return to the Charity Doctrine’s don’t lay your treasure on earth (which the ‘prosperity gospel’ promotes) but in heaven (Matthew 6:19 – 21)

 

  1. Next, the Charity Doctrine’s “‘Good Eye Idiom'” (Generosity aspect, relative measure in giving is revealed with Love) as proof of Serving God and not Money/Mammon (in Matthew 6:22 – 24)

 

  1. After that, the Charity Doctrine’s “Seek the Kingdom & His Righteousness” part is revealed instead of worrying so that “these things may be added to you'” is Revealed where Matthew doesn’t Record Christ’s Deeper explanation of how to do this but Luke does as “Sell your possessions and Give to Charity to Seek His Kingdom have unfailing treasure in Heaven with proving where our heart is in Luke 12:30 – 35” with ‘no’ mention of prayer/fasting again in these passages.

 

  1. If prayer/fasting is the most important aspect of Matthew 5:20 Christ’s Requirement of “YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS [1343 dikaiosynē]” to exceed that of the Pharisees, then why is it least mentioned (only in (Matthew 6:5 – 18) as opposed to the Charity Doctrine part all over Matthew 6 itself as we just saw here?

 

 

  1. Please don’t misunderstand me as I’m not saying that “Prayer and Fasting” is not important but if we are TO PREACH LIKE CHRIST WHEN HE TAUGHT HIS DEFINITION of RIGHTEOUSNESS HERE, may we PREACH LIKEWISE FIRST THE CHARITY DOCTRINE aspects as shown here as well and ‘not prayer only’. If we didn’t, perhaps our righteousness may “not” exceed the Pharisees either in this and we fail to enter Heaven.

 

 

  1. The Judgment Day Verses (in Matthew 25:31 – 46) mentioning only‘Charity Doctrine aspect of Almsgiving only“‘ (no prayer/fasting mentioned) as our Response to ‘… When I was Hungry, Thirsty, Naked, Homeless …’ may finally be Understood as ”Éxceeding the Righteousness of the Pharisees to Enter Heaven’” as these Verses collectively Reveal ”as it is Written”.

 

 

 

  1. If any pastor claims that without prayer & fasting one cannot exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees to enter Heaven (Matthew 5:20), tell them that Christ Mentioned that (in Matthew 6:5 – 18) but also Mentioned ‘first’ the CHARITY DOCTRINE in Matthew 6:1 – 4 and the rest of this ‘Same Sermon’ (‘Same Context’) and hence need to be Preached/Taught too if we wish to “‘énter Heaven”‘”. Can you see it please ”ás it is Written’ especially since when we Preach the Charity Doctrine, we are Preaching ‘Judgment Day’ which only Mentions our Response to ‘… When I was Hungry, Thirsty, Naked, Homeless …’ (Matthew 25:31 – 46) which Proves the Çleansed inside part of ”Lawlessness” (Luke 11:39 – 41, Matthew 23:25 – 28).

 

 

Please notice that each Verses Quoted here is all Çhrist’s Words only and so no one goes to Hell or becomes a false Teacher by preaching Christ’s Words ”as it is Written”.

 

 

 

 

8) Deeper: YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS “Possible” Meaning via CHRIST’S DIRECT WORDS only to mean ENTERING HEAVEN as a REWARD for the THIRTYFOLD vs SIXTYFOLD vs HUNDREDFOLD Levels of Inheritance

Since the “Context” of Denial Verses in Matthew 7:20 – 23 is about ENTERING HEAVEN, Please consider WHAT CHRIST SAYS (not opinion of men) regarding WHAT TO DO TO ENTER HEAVEN in Verses below:

 

Also notice that it is CHRIST WHO TEACHES in VERSES below that ENTERING HEAVEN is a “REWARD” (please notice this word carefully in Revelation 22:12) for those who DO HIS COMMANDS (Revelation 22:14) meaning one can be saved but not enter heaven as the case of the Nations who are saved on that FINAL NEW EARTH too where those only with names in the BOOK OF LIFE get to VISIT it. These Verses:

 

“… 12“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My REWARD is with Me, to GIVE TO EVERY ONE ACCORDING TO HIS WORK. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” 14BLESSED are those WHO DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have the RIGHT to THE TREE OF LIFE, and may ENTER through the GATES INTO THE CITY. 15But OUTSIDE are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. 16“I, JESUS, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star. …” (Revelation 22:12 – 16, NKJV)

The phrase “RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE” and to “ENTER through the GATES INTO THE CITY.” are given as a REWARD (Context, please notice this word carefully by CHRIST ABOVE) for “those WHO DO HIS COMMANDMENTS” as part of “12“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My REWARD is with Me, to GIVE TO EVERY ONE ACCORDING TO HIS WORK“.

 

Here’s an Example First Christianity Quote by  St. Irenaeous of Lyons who clearly affirms that this “Position of Gradations of Heavens even” as a REWARD (that’s why it is NOT equal to all Christians either) is Taught by the ‘Prebysters’ whom he refers below as the DIRECT DISCIPLES of the APOSTLES ONLY:

 

“… And as the presbyters* say, Then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour shall be seen according as they who see Him shall be worthy. [They say, moreover], that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold [Matthew 13:1 – 8, Matthew 13:18 – 23]: for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second will dwell in paradise, the last will inhabit the city; and that was on this account the Lord declared, “In My Father’s house are many mansions.” For all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling-place; even as His Word says, that a share is allotted to all by the Father, according as each person is or shall be worthy. And this is the couch on which the guests shall recline, having been invited to the WEDDING. The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, affirm that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved, and that they advance through steps of this nature… For in the TIMES of the KINGDOM, the righteous man who is upon the earth shall then forget to die.John, therefore, did distinctly foresee the FIRST “RESURRECTION of the JUST,” [Revelation 20:4 – 6, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18, Luke 14:14] and the inheritance in the kingdom of the earth; and what the prophets have prophesied concerning it harmonize [with his vision, e.g. Isaiah 65:20 – 23, Isaiah 11, Revelation 20:7 – 10]. For the Lord also taught these things, when He promised that He would have the mixed cup new with His disciples in the kingdom. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church   (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter Chapter XXXVI, Points 1 – 2, 3-partial)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

 

[Please notice the word WEDDING which indicates that the MARRIAGE of the LAMB with HIS CHURCH happens during CHRIST’S SECOND  COMING followed by the MILLENNIAL REIGN called the “TIMES of the KINGDOM” in his writing]

 

 

“… A fragment from the early 2nd century of one of the lost volumes of Papias, a Christian bishop, expounds that “heaven” was separated into three distinct layers. He referred to the first as just “heaven”, the second as “paradise”, and the third as “the city”. Papias taught that “there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce a hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold”. In the 2nd century AD, Irenaeus (a Greek bishop) wrote that not all who are saved would merit an abode in heaven itself. …”  Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_in_Christianity

 

 

 

 

Those Quotes by St. Papias are as follows:

 

“… As the presbyters say, then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour will be seen, according as they shall be worthy who see Him. But that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold; for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second class will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the city; and that on this account the Lord said, “In my Father’s house are many mansions:” …” – Blessed St. Papias, Bishop of Hierapolis, an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of the Blessed St. John the Apostle who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 60 AD – c. 163 AD, Fragment V-first part)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/papias.html

 

And

 

“… for all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling-place, even as His word says, that a share is given to all by the Father, according as each one is or shall be worthy. And this is the couch in which they shall recline who feast, being invited to the wedding. The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, say that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved, and that they advance through steps of this nature; and that, moreover, they ascend through the Spirit to the Son, and through the Son to the Father; and that in due time the Son will yield up His work to the Father, even as it is said by the apostle, “For He must reign till He hath put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” For in the times of the kingdom the just man who is on the earth shall forget to die. “But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted which did put all things under Him. And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.” …”  – Blessed St. Papias, Bishop of Hierapolis, an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of the Blessed St. John the Apostle who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 60 AD – c. 163 AD, Fragment V-Second part)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/papias.html

 

[Please notice the word WEDDING which indicates that the MARRIAGE of the LAMB with HIS CHURCH happens during CHRIST’S SECOND  COMING followed by the MILLENNIAL REIGN called the “TIMES of the KINGDOM” in St. Papias’ writing here as well]

Maybe “Perfection” is entering HEAVEN type of SALVATION which is for CHRISTIANS which is based on BELIEVING in CHRIST, Keeping HIS COMMANDS and especially the CHARITY DOCTRINE COMMANDS results in either three levels of Elect Salvation (which is THIRTYFOLD [City] vs SIXTYFOLD [Paradise] vs HUNDREDFOLD [Heavens] as per First Christianity quotes above) while the rest fall short of it may be saved on the NEW EARTH only or OUTSIDE the Kingdom of God only for the worst cases.

 

Last but not least, the ONLY COMMAND of CHRIST which DIRECTLTY has the PHRASE “Treasure in HEAVEN” is the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle and if you have “Treasure in Heaven” that means you are going there and if you DO NOT have Treasure in Heaven for NOT Practicing NOR TEACHING the #CharityDoctrine part, that could mean one is NOT going to HEAVEN, right? These Verses by CHRIST HIMSELF:

 

“…  31“But SEEK HIS KINGDOM, and THESE THINGS will be ADDED TO YOU. 32“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom. 33“SELL YOUR POSSESSIONS and GIVE TO CHARITY; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an UNFAILING TREASURE IN HEAVEN, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys. 34“For WHERE YOUR TREASURE IS, THERE YOUR HEART WILL BE ALSO. 35“Be dressed in readiness, and KEEP YOUR LAMPS LIT. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:31 – 35, NASB)

 

“… 21JESUS said to him, “If you want to be PERFECT, GIVE to the POOR, and YOU WILL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN; and come, FOLLOW ME.” 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away SORROWFUL, for he had GREAT POSSESSIONS. 23Then JESUS said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is HARD for a RICH MAN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. 24And AGAIN I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. …” (Matthew 19:21 – 24, NKJV)

 

So are we “Preaching these BIBLE Verses by CHRIST DIRECTLY in the CONTEXT of SALVATION, REWARDS and JUDGMENT in regard to this CHARITY DOCTRINE?”

 

‘… Preaching Christ is not just Speaking about Him but also Preaching what He Spoke …’

 

Can all these VERSES by CHRIST regarding a FAITH with CHARITY DOCTRINE is REQUIRED for SALVATION be IGNORED for any TRUE CHURCH? Each Decide and Answer God One Day.

 

 

 

 

 

Why Preach the Charity Doctrine if Salvation is a Free Gift?

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/pfbid0TyXE7awrHouk6WpoS1iZcRigXfw5f8MevoGF5WgBx7inJqbM2Xhad9f9JsVTgdNAl

 

Indeed Salvation is a Free Gift but Heavenly Rewards and Consequence of Judgment is there based on the Charity Doctrine as Christ Himself Taught in these Verses in His Own Words

 

[These quotes are from Pages 397 to 398 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

  1. #CharityDoctrineLifestyle proves one’s faithfulness whether one Serves God or Money with their own money/possessions (Luke 16:9 – 13)

 

“… 9Here’s the lesson: USE YOUR WORLDLY RESOURCES to BENEFIT OTHERS AND MAKE FRIENDS. Then, when your possessions are gone, they will welcome you to an ETERNAL HOME. 10“If you are faithful in little things, you will be faithful in large ones. But if you are dishonest in little things, you won’t be honest with greater responsibilities. 11And IF YOU ARE UNTRUSTWORTHY ABOUT WORLDLY WEALTH, who will trust you with the TRUE RICHES OF HEAVEN? 12And if you are not faithful with other people’s things, why should you be trusted with things of your own? “No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. YOU CANNOT SERVE GOD AND BE ENSLAVED TO MONEY.” …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 16:9 – 13, NLT)

 

  1. #CharityDoctrineLifestyle proves how much we “Seek the Kingdom of God” (Luke 12:31 – 35)

 

“… 31“But SEEK HIS KINGDOM, and THESE THINGS will be ADDED TO YOU. 32“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom. 33“SELL YOUR POSSESSIONS and GIVE TO CHARITY; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an UNFAILING TREASURE IN HEAVEN, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys. 34“For where your treasure is, there YOUR HEART WILL BE ALSO. 35“Be dressed in readiness, and KEEP YOUR LAMPS LIT. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:31 – 35, NASB)

  1. 3. #CharityDoctrineLifestyle proves how much we Seek to do God’s Will for “Justice” and “Love of God” which even “Tithes” does “not” fulfill (Luke 11:41 – 42)

 

“… 41But rather GIVE ALMS of [l]SUCH THINGS AS YOU HAVE; then indeed ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN TO YOU. 42“But woe to you Pharisees! For YOU TITHE mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and PASS BY JUSTICE and the LOVE of GOD These you OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 11:41 – 42, NKJV)

 

  1. #CharityDoctrineLifestyle proves who really “follows Him” or “believes in Him” because “keeping Holy Commandments” can be done by someone “without Christ” even (Matthew 19:16 – 22)

 

“… 16Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[d] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17So He said to him, [e]“Why do you call Me good? [f]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” 20The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [g]from my youth. What do I still lack?” 21JESUS said to him, “IF you want to be PERFECT, go, SELL what YOU HAVE and GIVE to the POOR, and YOU WILL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN; and come, FOLLOW ME.” 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away SORROWFUL, for he had GREAT POSSESSIONS. …” (Matthew 19:16 – 22, NKJV)

 

Note: CHARITY is a DOCTRINE for PERFECTION where even KEEPING ALL THE HOLINESS COMMANDS of the TORAH (LAW) did NOT FULFILL this LACK” as CHRIST TAUGHT as follows: If you want to be “Perfect” in God’s Will, “yes“.

 

  1. [From Pages 103 to 105 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]”… For ALL THE LAW IS FULFILLED in one word, even in this: “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” …” (Galatians 5:14, NKJV)

 

So “ALL THE LAW [Torah’s 613 Commandments] IS FULFILLED” = “… LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” …” = CHARITY DOCTRINE

 

How do I know that the Context of “… LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” …” refers to the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle? Because CHRIST HIMSELF gave this definition as follows:

 

“… 25And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?” 26He said to him, “What is WRITTEN IN THE LAW? What is YOUR READING OF IT?” 27So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ ” 28And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.” 29But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And WHO IS MY NEIGHBOR?” 30Then JESUS ANSWERED and said: “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 31Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side. 33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had COMPASSION. 34So he went to him and BANDAGED HIS WOUNDS, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and TOOK CARE OF HIM. 35On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, ‘TAKE CARE OF HIM; and WHATEVER MORE YOU SPEND, when I come again, I WILL REPAY YOU.’ 36So which of these three do you think was NEIGHBOR to him who fell among the thieves? 37And he said, “He who SHOWED MERCY on him.” Then JESUS SAID to him, “GO AND DO LIKEWISE.”…” (Luke 10:25 – 37, NKJV)

 

 

Conclusion

 

1) If “Loving your neighbor” referring to this “CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE” Fulfills ALL LAW, then “not” doing it could be equal to “BREAKING ALL LAW (TORAH), right?”

 

 

2) No other religious act be it “Praying, Fasting, Church Attendance, Worship or anything else” has been WRITTEN IN HOLY SCRIPTURE AS EQUAL TO FULFILLING ALL LAW (All the “Torah’s 613 Commandments“) EXCEPT THIS “… LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR …” which CHRIST HIMSELF Describes as the CHARITY DOCTRINE LIFESTYLE in His Famous “Parable of the Good Samaritan” in Verses above clearly “as it is Written“. So, how can a True Church of Christ “not” Teach it as Doctrine?

 

 

3) Regardless, Preaching these Verses is “not” my personal opinion or human wisdom but exactly what’s WRITTEN IN ACTUAL BIBLE VERSES and BEST IS, BY LORD JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF and HE COMMANDS US TO DO IT, in His Own Most Blessed Words above as “… [Love] YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ ” 28And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”  …” (Luke 10:27 – 28, NKJV) and “… 36So which of these three do you think was NEIGHBOR to him who fell among the thieves? 37And he said, “He who SHOWED MERCY on him.” Then JESUS SAID to him, “GO AND DO LIKEWISE.”…” (Luke 10:36 – 37, NKJV) for which there IS NO CONDEMNATION TO PREACH CHRIST’S COMMAND HERE AS IT IS WRITTEN AS DOCTRINE.

 

 

 

4)  Even in “Judgment Day” Verses, Christ only Asks about what one did to the “… Hungry, Thirsty, Naked, Homeless etc. …” which are Çharity Doctrine Acts without which any idealogy/conversions doesn’t work or don’t matter in Matthew 25:31 – 46 clearly. Christ also clearly defines “His Sheep” to possess these Çharity Doctrine Act Qualities clearly.

 

Here’s a little deeper mystery for you to ponder: Some of the “Righteous (sheep)” did NOT EVEN KNOW the Lord much and that’s why they ask back as follows (but yet THE LORD KNOWS ALL THESE CHARITY DOCTRINE SHEEP as opposed to the “… Converting MANY based on Prophesying, Casting out Demons, Miracles in His Name ones whom HE DENIES as I NEVER KNEW YOU due to LAWLESSNESS …” in Matthew 7:20 – 24), Surprised Sheep Verses:

 

“… 37“Then the RIGHTEOUS WILL ANSWER Him, saying, ‘Lord, When Did We See You Hungry And Feed YOU, or THIRSTY AND GIVE YOU DRINK? 38WHEN DID WE SEE YOU A STRANGER and TAKE YOU IN, OR NAKED AND CLOTHE YOU? 39Or WHEN DID WE SEE YOU SICK, OR in PRISON, AND COME TO YOU?’ 40And THE KING WILL ANSWER and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I SAY TO YOU, INASMUCH AS YOU DID IT TO ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHREN, YOU DID IT TO ME.’ …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 25:37 – 40, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comments [from Pages 1054, 1056 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Some Christians think that “Prayer and Worship” means they are LOVING CHRIST and Fulfilling the Greatest Command but while this is partly true it is incomplete because:

 

1) How much one loves God (The First and Greatest Commandment) is Proven by how much one love’s one’s neighbour i.e. by the Practice of the #CharityDoctrine Commands of Christ as CHRIST defined it such as we have seen prior, Verses:

 

“… 29JESUS answered him, “The [k]first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [l]This is the first commandment. 31And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is NO OTHER COMMANDMENT GREATER THAN THESE.” …” (Mark 12:29 – 31, NKJV)

 

Please notice carefully that when Teaching the Greatest Command Christ does NOT Teach it alone but couples it with the Love your neighbour 2nd Greatest Command.

 

Why? Because the second is the proof of the first as many Biblical scholars also have attested likewise.

 

In short, the recognition part of the “Sheep” of Christ in Judgment Day Verses is their “Common Act” of “Charity Doctrine” in Matthew 25:31 – 46. Can you see it?

 

Without a “Doctrine of Love in Action (not words only)”, such “Faith” contradicts these Verses:

 

“…  6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE. 7YOU RAN WELL. Who hindered you from OBEYING THE TRUTH? 8This persuasion DOES NOT come FROM HIM who calls you. 9A little leaven leavens the whole lump. … THROUGH LOVE SERVE ONE ANOTHER. 14For ALL THE LAW IS FULFILLED in one word, even in this: “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR AS YOURSELF.”AGAINST SUCH THERE IS NO LAW ...” (Galatians 5:6 – 9, 13 – 14, 22, highlighted, NKJV)

 

Note: the “as yourself” part is the hardest.

 

The #CharityDoctrine Level Christ Required is as follows:

 

“… 32“But IF YOU LOVE THOSE WHO LOVE YOU, WHAT CREDIT IS THAT TO YOU? …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:32, NKJV)

 

“… WHAT DO YOU DO MORE THAN OTHERS? …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:47, NKJV)

 

“… 33And IF YOU DO GOOD TO THOSE WHO DO GOOD TO YOU, WHAT CREDIT IS THAT TO YOU?  …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:33, NKJV)

 

 

Conclusion

 

[These quotes are from Pages 329 to 330 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Example accusation:

 

‘… When you Teach the CHARITY DOCTRINE COMMANDS of CHRIST for this New Testament, you cannot teach it as an “OBLIGATION” or else it becomes a type of ‘EARNING SALVATION  by WORKS’ which can cost you your Salvation …’

 

Reply

 

This is a common fallacy. Please consider the following equivalent statements Biblically as these same persons who accuse the above falsely also accuse themselves ‘by their own words’ (mostly ‘unknowingly’) as follows:

 

‘… When you Teach the HOLINESSS COMMANDS of CHRIST for this New Testament, you cannot teach it as an “OBLIGATION” or else it becomes a type of ‘EARNING SALVATION  by WORKS‘ which can cost you your Salvation …’

 

‘… When you Teach the DO NOT MURDER COMMAND of CHRIST for this New Testament, you cannot teach it as an “OBLIGATION” or else it becomes a type of ‘EARNING SALVATION  by WORKS’ which can cost you your Salvation …’

 

‘… When you Teach the DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY COMMAND of CHRIST for this New Testament, you cannot teach it as an “OBLIGATION” or else it becomes a type of ‘EARNING SALVATION  by WORKS‘ which can cost you your Salvation …’

 

Can you see the “FALLACY” here?

 

When it comes to ‘any New Testament Command/Tradition’ which ‘they practice’, it is considered “not” earning Salvation but if it’s the “Charity Doctrine Commands“, they claim it is “earning Salvation“.

 

Please also notice that “Holiness Commands from do not murder to do not commit adultery” and all that are called “Works of the Law” by Christ Himself in Matthew 19:16 – 20 before Christ Introduces the “Charity Doctrine Command of Give to the Poor” toward the “Perfection of Following Him” in the next continuing Verses of Matthew 19:21 – 30 likewise which is “not” for the Old Testament times but now as Verse 28 – 30 refers to these for the Context of “Regeneration” (First Resurrection, Revelation 20:4 – 6) with its associated “Rewards” (be it thirty-fold, sixty-fold or hundred-fold, Matthew 13:8) as the “Hundredfold” only is Described in Matthew 19:29 in the Context on top of inheriting “Eternal Life” and how ‘many who are first will be last and the last first’ (Matthew 19:30) referring to the “Least vs Greatest” based on “Speaking against His Commands and teaching others to disobey these least of these” or “Obeying and Teaching” His Commands respectively (seen with Matthew 5:19 – 20).

 

Indeed, the Preaching about Christ is incomplete if we do “not” Preach “His New Testament Commands”.

 

“… But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and NOT DO THE THINGS WHICH I SAY? …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:46, NKJV)

Well, there is also the “Saved by Fire” case with “no” Rewards (and so does skipping Christ’s Commands and not Preaching it really worth it in the end?), Verses:

 

“… 13each ONE’S WORK will become clear; FOR THE DAY WILL DECLARE IT, BECAUSE IT WILL BE REVEALED BY FIRE; and THE FIRE WILL TEST EACH ONE’S WORK, of what sort it is. 14If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, HE WILL RECEIVE A REWARD. 15If anyone’s WORK IS BURNED, HE WILL SUFFER LOSS; but HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, YET SO AS THROUGH FIRE.” .  …” (1 Corinthians 3:13 – 15, NKJV)

 

“… 46“But WHY DO YOU CALL ME ‘LORD, LORD,’ and NOT DO THE THINGS WHICH I SAY? 47Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: 48He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:46 – 48, NKJV)

 

Please be careful with “Christianity which does NOT Preach HIS COMMANDS but only ‘about Christ calling Him Lord, Lord’ which CHRIST HIMSELF DENIES in regards to this Context in Luke 6:46 – 48 which even if it CONVERTS MANY via PROPHESYING, CASTING OUT DEMONS and MIRACLES, CHRIST SAYS to the ‘… I NEVER KNEW YOU …’ due to #LAWLESSNESS (which is NOT DOING NOR PREACHING CHRIST’S COMMANDS which by includes all these #CHARITYDOCTRINE Commands DIRECTLY by HIM even as “most in number” count and to be fulfilled with the Greatest Command too (Mark 12:29 – 29) as “Love God and Love your Neighbour as yourself” which Christ Defined as the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle only in His Famous “Good Samaritan Parable” too in Luke 10:25 – 37 (quoted in point 5 earlier):

 

“… 14Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. … 21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER in heaven. 22MANY will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we NOT PROPHESIED in Your name, CAST OUT DEMONS in Your name, and DONE MANY WONDERS in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS!’ … 24“Therefore WHOEVER HEARS THESE SAYINGS OF MINE, and DOES THEM, I will liken him to a WISE MAN who BUILT HIS HOUSE ON THE ROCK: …” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:14, 21 – 23, 24, NKJV)

 

 

 

Please notice also carefully that CHRIST DID NOT Consider “… CONVERTING MANY to CHRISTIANITY based on PROPHESYING, CASTING OUT DEMONS and MIRACLES, …” as ‘Gospel Work‘ (nor as Fulfilling the Will of the Father) if it is with #LAWLESSNESS DENYING all of these in Verses here proving that “Preaching HIS COMMANDS” is MORE IMPORTANT than any of these gifts. Can you “see” it as it is Written from CHRIST’s WORDS ONLY here?

 

 

“… 19Whoever therefore BREAKS one of the LEAST of THESE COMMANDMENTS, and TEACHES men so, shall be called LEAST in the kingdom of HEAVEN; but whoever DOES AND TEACHES them, he shall be called GREAT in the kingdom of HEAVEN. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:19, NKJV)

 

Please notice the words “Obey His Commands” in Verses below which is what the HOLY SPIRIT of God HELPS us to OBEY, Verses:

 

“… 15“If YOU LOVE ME, [d]KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]HELPER, that He may ABIDE WITH YOUR FOREVER— 17the SPIRIT of TRUTH, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.  …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:15 – 17, NKJV)

[From Page 1377 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook]

 

Since the “Context” of Denial Verses in Matthew 7:20 – 23 is about ENTERING HEAVEN, Please consider WHAT CHRIST SAYS (not opinion of men) regarding WHAT TO DO TO ENTER HEAVEN in Verses below:

 

Also notice that it is CHRIST WHO TEACHES in VERSES below that ENTERING HEAVEN is a “REWARD” (please notice this word carefully in Revelation 22:12) for those who DO HIS COMMANDS (Revelation 22:14) meaning one can be saved but not enter heaven as the case of the Nations who are saved on that FINAL NEW EARTH too where those only with names in the BOOK OF LIFE get to VISIT it. These Verses:

 

“… 12“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My REWARD is with Me, to GIVE TO EVERY ONE ACCORDING TO HIS WORK. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” 14BLESSED are those WHO DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have the RIGHT to THE TREE OF LIFE, and may ENTER through the GATES INTO THE CITY. 15But OUTSIDE are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. 16“I, JESUS, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star. …” (Revelation 22:12 – 16, NKJV)

 

The phrase “RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE” and to “ENTER through the GATES INTO THE CITY.” are given as a REWARD (Context, please notice this word carefully by CHRIST ABOVE) for “those WHO DO HIS COMMANDMENTS” as part of “12“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My REWARD is with Me, to GIVE TO EVERY ONE ACCORDING TO HIS WORK“.

 

 

Last but not least, the ONLY COMMAND of CHRIST which DIRECTLTY has the PHRASE “Treasure in HEAVEN” is the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle and if you have “Treasure in Heaven” that means you are going there and if you DO NOT have Treasure in Heaven for NOT Practicing NOR TEACHING the #CharityDoctrine part, that could mean one is NOT going to HEAVEN, right? These Verses by CHRIST HIMSELF:

 

“…  31“But SEEK HIS KINGDOM, and THESE THINGS will be ADDED TO YOU. 32“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom. 33“SELL YOUR POSSESSIONS and GIVE TO CHARITY; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an UNFAILING TREASURE IN HEAVEN, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys. 34“For WHERE YOUR TREASURE IS, THERE YOUR HEART WILL BE ALSO. 35“Be dressed in readiness, and KEEP YOUR LAMPS LIT. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:31 – 35, NASB)

 

“… 21JESUS said to him, “If you want to be PERFECT, GIVE to the POOR, and YOU WILL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN; and come, FOLLOW ME.” 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away SORROWFUL, for he had GREAT POSSESSIONS. 23Then JESUS said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is HARD for a RICH MAN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. 24And AGAIN I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. …” (Matthew 19:21 – 24, NKJV)

 

Maybe “Perfection” is entering HEAVEN type of SALVATION while the rest fall short of it may be saved on the NEW EARTH only or OUTSIDE the Kingdom of God only for the worst cases.

 

 

Saved by Fire case of 1 Corinthians 3:15’s Context – What did First Christianity Giants of Faith Believe?

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/pfbid034YcoW7LjtKekE7hXqR36i3XtFGMmK9sr28TJKJPxCvE7gK9thVWnpEw43EZZUVUDl

 

 

1) Bible Verses for this “Saved by Fire” case

 

 

“… 13each ONE’S WORK will become clear; FOR THE DAY WILL DECLARE IT, BECAUSE IT WILL BE REVEALED BY FIRE; and THE FIRE WILL TEST EACH ONE’S WORK, of what sort it is. 14If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, HE WILL RECEIVE A REWARD. 15If anyone’s WORK IS BURNED, HE WILL SUFFER LOSS; but HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, YET SO AS THROUGH FIRE. …” (1 Corinthians 3:13 – 15, NKJV)

 

 

2) Some Christians believed 1 Corinthians 3:13 – 15 to refer to “Purgatory” Fire

 

Example quotes:

 

“… It is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing to instantly receive the reward of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged as by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering [martyrdom]. It is one thing, in the end, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord(Epistle 51.20 comparing Martyrdom to purgation). …” – Blessed St. Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage, a pre-eminent Latin writer of Western Christianity until Jerome and Augustine, Martyr for Christ, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 200 AD – c. 258 AD)

 

or

“… Lord, rebuke me not in Your indignation, nor correct me in your anger…. In this life may You cleanse me and make me such that I have no need of corrective fire, which is for those who are saved, but as if by fire….For it is said, “He shall be saved, but as if by fire” (1 Cor 3:15). And because it is said, “he shall be saved,” little is thought of that fire. Yet, plainly, though we be saved by fire, that fire will be more severe than anything man can suffer in this life. (Explanations of the Psalms 37.3 – Quoted in Jurgens @ 1467) And it is not impossible that something of the same kind [purification by fire] may take place even after this life. It is a matter that may be inquired into, and either ascertained or left doubtful, whether some believers shall pass through a kind of purgatorial fire, and in proportion as they have loved with more or less devotion the goods that perish, be less or more quickly delivered from it. (Commentary on 1 Cor 3 in the Enchiridion, 69) …” – Blessed St. Augustine of Hippo, Doctor of the Church, who influenced virtually all of subsequent Western philosophy and Catholic theology, as well as a significant amount of Protestant theology, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 354 AD – c. 430 AD)

 

Source (for both quotes above):

 

https://www.catholicfidelity.com/apologetics-topics/purgatory/the-church-fathers-on-purgatory-and-1-cor-3-15/

 

 

More regarding St. Cyprian in link below too:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprian

 

More regarding St. Augustine in link below:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo

 

Based on Verse 1 Corinthians 3:13 that this FIRE is to be REVEALED on THAT DAY only (meaning it cannot exist now which contradicts the “purgatory” position as it implies the purgatorial-fire to exist only before Judgment Day), I think the next quoted Church Fathers are more likely to be correct in that 1 Corinthians 3:13 – 15 “Saved by Fire” case refers to “Lake of Fire Context”.

3) Some Christians believed 1 Corinthians 3:13 – 15 to be the Lake of Fire Context

 

  1. i) St. Gregory Nazianzus

[to quote from Page 1433 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Blessed St. Gregory Nazianzus’s quote regarding the POSSIBILITY that SALVATION  CAN HAPPEN AFTER LAKE OF FIRE JUDGMENT IF GOD WILLS IT (This Hope was uttered toward the ‘Novatian Heretics’ as follows):

 

“… XIX. But these sins were not after Baptism, you will say. Where is your proof? Either prove it — or refrain from condemning; and if there be any doubt, let charity prevail. But Novatus, you say, would not receive those who lapsed in the persecution. What do you mean by this? If they were unrepentant he was right; I too would refuse to receive those who either would not stoop at all or not sufficiently, and who would refuse to make their amendment counterbalance their sin; and when I do receive them, I will assign them their proper place; but if he refused those who wore themselves away with weeping, I will not imitate him. And why should Novatus’s want of charity be a rule for me? He never punished covetousness, which is a second idolatry; but he condemned fornication as though he himself were not flesh and body. What say you? Are we convincing you by these words? Come and stand here on our side, that is, on the side of humanity. Let us magnify the Lord together. Let none of you, even though he has much confidence in himself, dare to say, Touch me not for I am pure, and who is so pure as I? Give us too a share in your brightness. But perhaps we are not convincing you? Then we will weep for you. Let these men then if they will, follow our way, which is Christ’s way; but if they will not, let them go their own. Perhaps in it they will be baptized with Fire, in that last Baptism which is more painful and longer, which devours wood like grass, 1 Corinthians 3:12-19 and consumes the stubble of every evil….” – Blessed St. Gregory Nazianzus, also known as Gregory the Theologian or Gregory Nazianzen, Archbishop of Constantinople, Theologian, Doctor of the Church, Great Hierarch, Cappadocian Father, Ecumenical Teacher, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (c. 329 AD – c. 390 AD)

Source [ Oration 39, Chapter XIX, Oration on the Holy Lights. The Oration on the Holy Lights was preached on the Festival of the Epiphany 381, and was followed the next day by that on Baptism.]:

 

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/310239.htm

 

 

Comments:

 

  1. Some may say that St. Gregory Nazianzus’ quote above refers to those “HERETICS” Burned Forever in the LAKE OF FIRE but I DO NOT think so because even those who quote that agree that he is quoting 1 Corinthians 3:12 – 19’s Context and so it includes Verses 13 to 15 too which REVEALS the SAVED by FIRE CASE. Can you see it?

 

 

  1. I mean since St. Gregory Nazianzus’ quote above seems to refer to those “HERETICSBurned in the LAKE OF FIRE CONTEXT based on him quoting 1 Corinthians 3:12 – 19 as the “Last Baptism of Fire“, then Verses 13 to 15 here likewise applies to these SAME HERETICS to be SAVED BY FIRE as per the Original Verses mean this, highlight for that part:

 

 

“… 15If anyone’s WORK IS BURNED, HE WILL SUFFER LOSS; but HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, YET SO AS THROUGH FIRE. …” (1 Corinthians 3:15, NKJV)

 

Can you see it?

 

(I am “not” saying that St. Gregory Nazianzus’ quote is Scripture hence it could be right or wrong) but rather I am showing clearly that if any Church Father (for example St. Gregory Nazianzus here) quotes the Context of 1 Corinthians 3:12 – 19 to apply toward HERETICS (or non-Christians even), then Verses 13 to 15 in it implies clearly the SAVED [after Judgment] BY [Lake of] FIRE case to apply to them hinting on “non-Elect Salvation” (just the term is not coined).

 

More regarding St. in link below:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_of_Nazianzus

 

 

 

 

  1. ii) St. Ambrose of Milan

 

St. Ambrose of Milan’s quote below seems to show the POSSIBILITY that “some” (if not all) may be SAVED AFTER the FINAL LAKE OF FIRE JUDGMENT [to quote from Page 1231 onward of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook]:

 

‘… “OUR SAVIOUR has appointed TWO KINDS of RESURRECTION in the APOCALYPSE. ‘Blessed is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION,’ for such COME TO GRACE WITHOUT JUDGMENT. As FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT COME TO THE FIRST, but are reserved unto the SECOND RESURRECTION, THESE SHALL BE DISCIPLINED UNTIL THEIR APPOINTED TIMES, BETWEEN THE FIRST AND THE SECOND RESURRECTION; or, if they should not have fulfilled them then, they shall remain still longer in punishment … ‘ – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church  (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD)

 

Source: https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ambrose

 

 

 

 

Comment: St. Ambrose of Milan’s quote is so important that it has even affected Roman Catholicism, example quote:

“… In spite of his great status as a Doctor of the Church, however, the theology of Ambrose has at least two unique features that have basically been unacceptable to church dogma for many centuries but which are attracting more attention today. First, it teaches universal salvation. Ambrose was a Christian universalist; he believed that all people would eventually achieve salvation: “For now, since all do not believe, all do not seem to be in subjection. But when all have believed and done the will of God, then Christ will be all and in all.”[5] Perhaps because he was able to read Greek, Ambrose’s theology was significantly influenced by that of Origen (c.185-c.254) and Didymus the Blind (c.313-c.398), two other early Christian universalists. Needless to say, universal salvation is more acceptable to the Catholic Church today, as its new, post-Vatican II Catechism says: “In hope, the Church prays for ‘all men to be saved’.”[6] …”

 

Source: https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ambrose

 

 

 

That same quote may be found in link below (in his main Book, not a disputed source):

“… 182. Let us then shortly sum up our conclusion on the whole matter. A unity of power puts aside all idea of a degrading subjection. His giving up of power, and His victory as conqueror won over death, have not lessened His power. Obedience works out subjection. Christ has taken obedience upon Himself, obedience even to taking on Him our flesh, the cross even to gaining our salvation. Thus where the work lies, there too is the Author of the work. When therefore, all things have become subject to Christ, through Christ’s obedience, so that all bend their knees in His name, then He Himself will be all in all. For now, since all do not believe, all do not seem to be in subjection. But when all have believed and done the will of God, then Christ will be all and in all. And when Christ is all and in all, then will God be all and in all; for the Father abides ever in the Son. How, then, is He shown to be weak, Who redeemed the weak?

 

  1. And lest you should by chance attribute to the weakness of the Son, that it is written, that God has put all things in subjection under Him; learn that He has Himself brought all things into subjection to Himself, for it is written: Our conversation is in heaven, from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus, Who shall change our vile body that it may be fashioned like His glorious body according to the working, whereby He is able to subdue all things unto Himself. Philippians 3:20-21 You have learned, therefore, that He can subdue all things unto Himself according to the working of His Godhead. …” – Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan, the First Great Latin Doctor of the Church, Converter, Baptizer & Teacher of St. Augustine of Hippo, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church (c. 340 AD – c. 397 AD)

Source (  Exposition of the Christian Faith, Book V, Chapter 15 ):

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/34045.htm

 

Note: St. Ambrose of Milan is quite confident of his “universalism” (or non-Elect Salvation quotes in some way to be true) as he writes this as part of the  “Christian Doctrine” in his Book titled “… Exposition of the Christian Faith, Book V, Chapter 15 …” above where he must be summarizing what the ‘Common Christian Belief’ was even before St. Augustine of Hippo whom even he converted.

 

More regarding St. Ambrose of Milan in link below:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrose

 

4) Does being Saved in the Spirit World after Judgment (i.e. Post-Mortem Salvation of some type) Contradict Christ’s Work on the Cross?

 

If so, none of these most Orthodox Church Leaders quoted here saw any such contradiction to Christ’s Work on His Cross if Salvation was Possible after Spirit World Judgment or Final Judgment, for if not, they would not even have considered such a ‘spirit world salvation or judgment day salvation’ as their quotes demonstrate here.

 

Here’s a possible explanation as to “how“:

 

In light of Christ’s Quotes we understand that the “Charity Doctrine” removes the “Judgment of Sins“*  but it cannot give new life nor give Resurrection.

 

Only the Blood of Christ Can Remove Sin itself and bring us to the Resurrection Life beginning within us on earth itself.  So only Christ’s Atonement and Work Gives us Life.

 

The Almsgiving stops the ‘Judgment of Sins’, nothing more as that’s the Context meant in Tobit or elsewhere in Verses quoted here (even in Christ’s Parable of the Rich Man and Beggar Lazarus too which Speaks of this absence of Charity Doctrine leads straight to Hell in Luke 16:19 – 31) by which even Lazarus can be ‘spared of that Judgment’ too.

 

*Here are some Bible Verses regarding “Almsgiving and/or #CharityDoctrineLifestyle” Quoted in both the “Old Testament” (by Blessed Prophet Daniel himself to whom was Revealed the ‘Wise will Shine Like Heavens Verse) and also in the “New Testament” (to Blessed Apostle St. Paul the Original ‘Faith Alone by Grace’ Preacher) in Verses quoted next in the CONTEXT of CHARITY DOCTRINE for the REMOVAL OF JUDGMENT OF SINS:

 

  1. i) Old Testament

 

“… Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and BREAK OFF THY SINS BY RIGHTEOUSNESS, and THINE INIQUITIES BY SHEWING MERCY TO THE POOR; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity. …” – Blessed and Holy Prophet Daniel (Daniel 4:27, KJV based on the Masoretic Text)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/daniel/4-27.htm

 

Compare:

 

” … 27Therefore, O king, let my counsel please thee, and ATONE FOR THY SINS BY ALMS, and THINE INIQUITIES BY COMPASSION ON THE POOR: it may be God will be long-suffering to thy trespasses.” … – Blessed and Holy Prophet Daniel (Daniel 4:27, Brenton Septuagint Translation, based on the Septuagint or LXX)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/daniel/4.htm

 

A key difference is that both the Masoretic and LXX for this Verse has the “other” equivalent phrase “… and THINE INIQUITIES BY SHEWING MERCY TO THE POOR; …” = “… and THINE INIQUITIES BY COMPASSION ON THE POOR …” which proves the “Charity Doctrine” for the removal of  “Judgment of Sins” regardless.

 

  1. ii) New Testament

 

“… 16The LORD GRANT MERCY to the HOUSEHOLD OF ONESIPHORUS, FOR HE OFTEN REFRESHED ME, and was not ashamed of my chain; 17but when he arrived in Rome, he sought me out very zealously and found me. 18The LORD GRANT TO HIM THAT HE MAY FIND MERCY FROM THE LORD IN THAT DAY—and YOU KNOW VERY WELL HOW MANY WAYS HE MINISTERED [d]TO ME AT EPHESUS. …” (2 Timothy 1:12 – 18, NKJV)

 

Comments:

 

  1. Please notice that “God’s Mercy” on “that Day (Judgment Day)” is only Quoted in Scripture to refer to “Eternal Life” Context.

 

  1. This Verse regarding ONESIPHORUS cannot be in Context of Reward because “no” extra Reward can be given based on Mercy as “Rewards are based on Merit (deserved)” while in comparison “Mercy” is given based on God’s Decision alone to the “undeserved”.

 

  1. So the “Mercy” in “That Day” spoken in Verses here toward ONESIPHORUS or even the HOUSEHOLD OF ONESIPHORUS as a whole most likely points to “Mercy unto Eternal Life” based on the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle lived as I have discussed in Pages 1182 to 1193 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook here.

 

  1. This is “not” Salvation by Works but rather the “Fruit” of Salvation which will be evidenced in any person’s life whom “God Saves” and thus “Common Ground” toward all who are Saved by Mercy on Judgment Day via this Charity Doctrine Fruit also implies that this must be “the oil” the Wise Virgins had as First Christianity Taught likewise.

 

 

  1. Apostle St. Paul won’t be asking for “Mercy” to be shown to Blessed Onesiphorus due to the latter’s “Charity Doctrine Lifestyle” unless it is “possible” based on this on “Judgment Day” and that’s why we consider the “possibility” that even Possibly some non-Christians may be shown this same Mercy if they were kind to Christians likewise by practicing the Charity Doctrine Lifestyle toward Christians too. So we can ask but let God Alone Decide in the end which makes no one a heretic here.

 

 

  1. Example Quote by Scholars for this part that ONESIPHORUS is definitely most likely DEAD

 

“… But now, at the time of correspondence, only “Luke alone is with (Paul)” (4:11). Because Paul speaks of Onesiphorus only in the past tense, wishes blessings upon his house (family), and mercy for him “in that day”, some scholars believe that Onesiphorus had at this point died.[5] Towards the end of the same letter, in 2 Timothy 4:19, Paul sends greetings to “Priscilla and Aquila, and the house of Onesiphorus“, again apparently distinguishing the situation of Onesiphorus from that of the still-living Priscilla and Aquila. Paul’s reference to Onesiphorus, along with 2 Maccabees 12:40–46, is cited by Catholics as one of the early examples of prayer for the dead,[6] while some Protestants opposing this practice reject such an interpretation.[7] …”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onesiphorus

Mysterious and Difficult, isn’t it?

 

 

  1. Blessed Apostle St. James himself seems to echo likewise that in “Judgment Day Context”, the #CharityDoctrine Acts of Mercy can TRIUMPH over the LAST (Final) JUDGMENT even and the person can be Saved IF GOD DECIDES so. Verses:

 

“… 13For JUDGMENT IS WITHOUT MERCY to the ONE WHO HAS SHOWN NO MERCY. MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT.. …” (James 2:13, NKJV)

 

  1. Galatians 6:8 Possible Context

 

“… 6Let him who is taught the word share in all good things with him who teaches. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he WHO SOWS TO THE SPIRIT WILL OF THE SPIRIT REAP EVERLASTING LIFE. 9And let us NOT GROW WEARY while DOING GOOD, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us DO GOOD TO ALL, ESPECIALLY TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF FAITH. …” (Galatians 6:6 – 10, NKJV)

 

Comments:

 

  1. i) These Verses are primarily talking about “Doing Good” in the Context of the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle of “sharing and giving” as Verses 6 and 10 imply clearly.

 

  1. ii) Context for Verse 8’s ‘reap Everlasting Life’ seems to be ‘General’ in light of Verse 7 which Speaks of ‘man in General’. If this is true, then it can explain that those with “Good obedience to God’s Law/Gospel” as we saw in “Romans 2:13” earlier can thus be “Justified” for “Eternal Life” based on “Doing Good” (as Romans 2:7 describes) under this understanding that it is NOT their works which saves them but that by DOING HIS WILL (His Command for DOING GOOD here) they “REAP ETERNAL LIFE from HIS SPIRIT” as a “GIFT” because any COMMAND of GOD when FULFILLED SOWS into HIS SPIRIT.

 

iii) Context for Verse 6 reveals the #CharityDoctrine type of DOING GOOD as the main type even or the best type of DOING GOOD toward one who shared GOSPEL THINGS too.

 

  1. iv) Context for Verse 9 describes that we should “… NOT GROW WEARY while DOING GOOD …” indicating that DOING GOOD ought to be a #LIFESTYLE and not once in a while as only a lifestyle such as the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle can cause one to be WEARY (indicating persistence and perseverance) implying that “once in a while type of doing Good” may NOT SOW INTO THE SPIRIT for EVERLASTING LIFE as Verse 8 can be connected to it.

 

  1. v) The Condition “… we shall reap if we do not lose heart …” (Galatians 6:9) indicates that some may lose heart (Conditional to “our free choice”) to persevere in this. Please notice that contrary to popular Christian understanding that “reaping” refers to rewards, these Verses point to REAPING EVERLASTING LIFE (Verse 8) under this condition of “perseverance”.

 

Can you see it?

 

  1. vi) Verse 10 makes it very clear that this DOING GOOD referred to from Verses 6 to 10 here is primarily or probably only the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle as “no” other type of good can a Christian do toward ‘all men’ (beyond believers as instructed here – can you see it?) where the REAPING here is NOT REWARDS only BUT EVERLASTING LIFE too (Verse 8, Context).

 

vii)  So in Principle, this REAPING here which is NOT REWARDS only BUT EVERLASTING LIFE too by SOWING into THE SPIRIT’s COMMANDS (Galatians 6:8)  based on especially the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle lived toward ALL MEN and not-believers-only  (Galatians 6:9, 10) could explain in analogy how the Romans 2:13 earlier’s JUSTIFIED ones may apply likewise toward JUDGMENT DAY Salvation as Romans 2:7 and Romans 2:10 implies based on “Deeds/Works” (Romans 2:6) toward some non-Christians too as Romans 2:11 here seems to agree to this possible generalization as there is “no” partiality with God (by Relative Measure of what Gospel Command they have heard):

 

“… 6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 ETERNAL LIFE to those who by PATIENT CONTINUANCE IN DOING GOOD SEEK FOR GLORY, HONOR and IMMORTALITY;  … 10but glory, honor, and peace to EVERYONE WHO WORKS WHAT IS GOOD, TO THE JEW FIRST AND ALSO TO THE GREEK [Gentiles]. 11For there is NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD. …12 and as many as have SINNED IN THE LAW WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW 13(for NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST IN THE SIGHT OF GOD,  BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW WILL BE JUSTIFIED …” (Romans 2:6, 7, 10, 11,12, 13 NKJV)

How about their sins?

Comment: I mean  just like for Galatians 6:6 – 10’s Context of “Believers”, this “REAPING unto EVERLASTING LIFE” based on “SOWING (by Doing His Commands)” is imperfect as Christians too have “sins”, likewise I think it is possible that the sins of such non-Christians may thus be forgiven for those saved ones. Where is the threshold? Only God knows (if this interpretation is true).

 

  1. Believing after Seeing Possibility and hence these may be Saved on Judgment Day as “non-Elect Salvation types” if true.

 

[ From Page 1212 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ]

 

Note some of these who are saved may be justified after Judgment via the “believing after seeing case”

 

“… JESUS SAID TO HIM, “Thomas, because you have SEEN ME, YOU HAVE BELIEVED. BLESSED ARE THOSE who have NOT SEEN and YET HAVE BELIEVED.” …” (John 20:29, NKJV)

 

“… No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. …” (John 6:44, NKJV)

 

“… And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” …” (John 12:32, NKJV)

 

Perhaps Christ’s Draws all People to Himself to give them this chance of Believing after seeing Possibility for a  non-Elect Salvation Possibility as the “Context” for these Verses around John 6:44 above seems to point to that as follows:

 

“… 36But I said to you that YOU HAVE SEEN ME and YET DO NOT BELIEVE … 40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES THE SON and BELIEVES IN HIM may have EVERLASTING LIFE; and I will RAISE HIM UP at the LAST DAY.” …” (John 6:36, 40, NKJV)

 

  1. i) Some non-Christians may be spared the ‘Lake of Fire Judgment’ if they lived out the #CharityDoctrineLifestyle toward #Christians (non-Elect Salvation POSSIBILITY) based on these Bible Verses:

 

“… 37“Then the RIGHTEOUS WILL ANSWER Him, saying, ‘Lord, When Did We See You Hungry And Feed YOU, or THIRSTY AND GIVE YOU DRINK? 38WHEN DID WE SEE YOU A STRANGER and TAKE YOU IN, OR NAKED AND CLOTHE YOU? 39Or WHEN DID WE SEE YOU SICK, OR in PRISON, AND COME TO YOU?’ 40And THE KING WILL ANSWER and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I SAY TO YOU, INASMUCH AS YOU DID IT TO ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHREN, YOU DID IT TO ME.’ …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 25:37 – 40, NKJV)

 

Could these SURPRISED SHEEP be the SHEEP FROM the OTHER FOLD CHRIST SPOKE of in Verse below?

 

“… And OTHER SHEEP I have which are NOT OF THIS FOLD; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. …” (John 10:16, NKJV)

 

Note: As opposed to the usual view that the ‘sheep of the other fold’ could refer to Jew vs Gentile, the fact that the JUDGMENT DAY SURPRISED SHEEP of the NATIONS [Matthew 25:31 – 46] are SAVED 1000 YEARS AFTER the WEDDING/CHRISTIAN Salvation of the FIRST RESURRECTION as “Chiliasm” Doctrine Taught [Revelation 20:4 – 6, Luke 20:34 – 36] seem to point (as discussed even with St. Irenaeous of Lyon’s Quotes** with others say in Pages 1389 to 1397 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.), John 10:16 could be referring to these Sheep thens “possibly”.

 

These SURPRISED SHEEP of the NATIONS (being ‘surprised’ on Judgment Day itself could indicate most likely that these are NOT CHRISTIANS) could be the MEEK of whom CHRIST SAID could INHERIT THE EARTH referring to this FINAL NEW EARTH CONTEXT most likely:

 

“… BLESSED are the MEEK, For they shall INHERIT THE EARTH. …” – The KING Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:5, NKJV)

 

 

I think that SOME of these ones will become the KINGS of THE EARTH who then BRING GLORY and HONOUR INTO THE FINAL HEAVENLY NEW JERUSALEM CITY as Described in Verse below:

 

“… and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]INTO IT [Final Heavenly New Jerusalem City which descends and connects to the Final New Earth literally*].  …” (Revelation 21:24, NKJV)

 

 

*Emphasis Mine for clarity, verse for this part:

 

“… Come, I will show you the [g]BRIDE, the LAMB’S WIFE.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED ME THE [H]GREAT CITY, the [I]HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN from God …” (Revelation 21:9 – 10, NKJV)

 

 

Even your sins are covered from Judgment if you love like this (again, CHRIST HIMSELF TAUGHT THIS DIRECTLY as follows)

 

 

“… And above all things have fervent love for one another, for “LOVE will COVER a MULTITUDE OF SINS.” …”(1 Peter 4:8, NKJV)

 

 

“… Therefore I say to you, HER SINS, which are MANY, ARE FORGIVEN, for SHE LOVED MUCH. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 7:47, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

 

  1. ii) Some non-Christians may be SAVED BY FIRE via the ‘Lake of Fire Judgment’ if they lived a mixed life of good and evil (non-Elect Salvation POSSIBILITY) based on these Bible Verses:

 

Bride Vs “Nations of those who are Saved”

 

“… Come, I will show you the [g]BRIDE, the LAMB’S WIFE.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED ME THE [H]GREAT CITY, the [I]HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN from God,  … 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE. …” (Revelation 21:9 – 10, 24 – 27, NKJV)

 

Comments:

 

  1. I do “not” think that every one of the “nations who are saved” will get to “enter to Visit that Final Heavenly Jerusalem City on that Final New Earth with no sea even” for if so the EXCEPTION clause “… but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE. …” ENTER into that CITY has no meaning.

 

  1. In other words, the existence of this phrase “… but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE …” enter into that City implies that perhaps NOT all of the “Nations who are saved” get to enter into it.

 

  1. The only ones from among the “Earth” mentioned to ENTER into the CITY but (they seem to be DISTINCTLY mentioned from the BRIDE/CHRISTIANS here) meaning they are POSSIBLY NON-CHRISTIANS (non-Elect Salvation) as contrasted to Visit the Bride into this Final Heavenly Jerusalem City which has Descended and Connected to that Final New Earth are called the “KINGS of the EARTH” which may be the BEST AMONG THEM as this phrase refers to them here “… and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. …”.

 

 

  1. Another possibility is that since all Christians are Kings/Priests (Revelation 1:6, 5:10 – please see Pages 1358/9 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook for this) so perhaps if the KINGS of the EARTH refers to CHRISTIANS ONLY here, then the “normal saved person among the nations who are saved” must then be “non-Christians, right? because all Christians are Kings over them“. So the KINGS (Christians) may be going into the CITY and then bring out the LEAVES from the TREE OF LIFE (which I think most likely is a literal tree as discussed say in Pages 1227 to 1230 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook ) for the HEALING OF THESE NATIONS, Verses:

 

“… 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. … In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was THE TREE OF LIFE, which bore TWELVE FRUITS, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 21:24 , 22:2, NKJV)

 

Verses for Terrestrial Resurrection Body (Earthly) Vs Celestial Resurrection Body (Heavenly)

 

“… 39ALL FLESH IS NOT THE SAME FLESH, but there is one kind [f]of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. 40There are also [g]CELESTIAL BODIES and [h]TERRESTRIAL BODIES; but the GLORY of the CELESTIAL is one, and the GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42So also is the RESURRECTION of THE DEAD.  …” (1 Corinthians 15:39 – 42, NKJV)

 

Please also notice very carefully in 1 Corinthians 15:40 that two types of “Glory” are mentioned for the final Resurrection Bodies namely “but the GLORY of the CELESTIAL is one,” Vs ” and the GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another.” (in 1 Corinthians 15:40).

 

Now the word “Glory” in “… GLORY of the TERRESTRIAL is another …” (mentioned clearly in 1 Corinthians 15:40) in this Context of “Resurrection of the Dead” (1 Corinthians 15:42)  itself indicates that some of the of the TERRESTRIAL RESURRECTION BODIES are also “Saved” for it doesn’t seem logical for a body raised with “glory” to be “unsaved“. To say that this “Terrestrial Glory” ones refers to some lower Christians contradicts Ephesians 5:25 – 27, 31 – 32 which describes Christ Sharing One Flesh with all Christians in some way and so they must be “CELESTIAL (Heavenly) RESURRECTION GLORY Bodies only“.

 

Note: The “terrestrial/earthly body salvation” for some other “nations who are saved with kings of the earth” (the word ‘earth’ signifying ‘terrestrial salvation’ with ‘terrestrial body too’) may be revealed in Verses above as they Visit the Heavenly City toward only those who are Written in the Lamb’s Book of Life where ‘His Church/Bride is’ (Who Alone have Celestial Resurrection Heavenly Body) as this aspect is discussed in detail say around in Page 603 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.

 

Here’s a First Christianity quote to ponder in light of all these:

 

“… 6. Wherefore also He drove him out of Paradise, and removed him far from the TREE OF LIFE, NOT because He envied him the TREE OF LIFE, as some venture to assert, but because He pitied him, [and did not desire] that he should CONTINUE a SINNER FOR EVER, NOR that the SIN which SURROUNDED him should be IMMORTAL, and EVIL INTERMINABLE and IRREMEDIABLE. But He set a bound to his [state of] sin, by interposing death, and thus causing sin to cease, Romans 6:7 putting an end to it by the dissolution of the flesh, which should take place in the earth, so that man, ceasing at length to live to sin, and dying to it, might begin to live to God. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Point 6, Chapter XXIII, Book 3)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html

 

Comment: In light of St. Irenaeous’ quote and his proximity with Blessed Apostle St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, the way evil/sin may be “healed” as his quote above seems to link it to the “TREE OF LIFE Context” may thus be connected in some way to the Verses below where the Verses for “LEAVES” of the “TREE OF LIFE” are for the “HEALING” of the “NATIONS

 

“… 24And the NATIONS [N]OF THOSE WHO ARE SAVED shall walk in its light, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH bring their glory and honor [o]into it. … In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was THE TREE OF LIFE, which bore TWELVE FRUITS, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. …” (Revelation 21:24 , 22:2, NKJV)

 

 

 

iii) Some non-Christians may be only saved after both their body+soul is destroyed in Gehenna [Lake of Fire, Matthew 10:28] in the spirit-state hence without Body/Soul they can never see nor enter the Kingdom of God on that Final New Earth or Heavens (non-Elect Salvation POSSIBILITY) based on these Bible Verses:

 

 

Notice that 1 Peter 3:18 – 20 (quoted next) reveals that the ‘Spirit World’ Preaching of Christ to the ‘spirits in prison’ (“prison indicating these are not righteous spirits who in contrast would be in comfort regions such as Abraham’s Bosom) cause a change (possibly by them believing there) in that they became DISOBEDIENT NO MORE (indicating “repentance in the spirit world“) as evidenced by the phrase “FORMERLY DISOBEDIENT” in this Verse (quoted next) meaning that JUSTIFICATION for SALVATION can happen via BELIEVING AFTER SEEING but the Decision rests in the Hands of God regarding it. These Verses:

 

 

“… 18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring [f]us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the SPIRITS in PRISON, 20who FORMERLY were DISOBEDIENT, [g]when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.  …” (1 Peter 3:18 – 20, NKJV)

 

“… To deliver such an one unto Satan for the DESTRUCTION of the FLESH, that THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED in the DAY of the LORD JESUS .. …” (1 Corinthians 5:5, KJV)

 

 

“…   4In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking EVIL of you. 5THEY will give an account to Him who is ready to JUDGE the living and THE DEAD. 6For this reason the GOSPEL was PREACHED also to those who are DEAD, that they might be JUDGED according to men in the FLESH, but LIVE according to God in the SPIRIT. …” (1 Peter 4:4 – 6, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

I think that Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons has been misrepresented to teach ‘complete annihilation’ based on his quotes below where he may actually be teaching ‘Body and Soul Destroyed but spirit could be saved’ in his famous quote below [to quote from Pages 51 to 54 of the #EternalHellAnnihilationUniversalismBook]:

“… Nevertheless they endure, and extend their existence into a long series of ages in accordance with the will of God their Creator; so that He grants them that they should be thus formed at the beginning, and that they should so exist afterwards. 3. For as the heaven which is above us, the firmament, the sun, the moon, the rest of the stars, and all their grandeur, although they had no previous existence, were called into being, and continue throughout a long course of time according to the will of God, so also any one who thinks thus respecting souls and spirits, and, in fact, respecting all created things, will not by any means go far astray, inasmuch as all things that have been made had a beginning when they were formed, but endure as long as God wills that they should have an existence and continuance. The prophetic Spirit bears testimony to these opinions, when He declares, “For He spake, and they were made; He commanded, and they were created: He hath established them for ever, yea, forever and ever.” And again, He thus speaks respecting the salvation of man: “He asked life of Thee, and Thou gavest him length of days for ever and ever; ” indicating that it is the Father of all who imparts continuance for ever and ever on those who are saved. For life does not arise from us, nor from our own nature; but it is bestowed according to the grace of God. And therefore he who shall preserve the life bestowed upon him, and give thanks to Him who imparted it, shall receive also length of days for ever and ever. But he who shall reject it, and prove himself ungrateful to his Maker, inasmuch as he has been created, and has not recognised Him who bestowed [the gift upon him], deprives himself of [the privilege of] continuance for ever and ever. And, for this reason, the Lord declared to those who showed themselves ungrateful towards Him: “If ye have not been faithful in that which is little, who will give you that which is great? ” indicating that those who, in this brief temporal life, have shown themselves ungrateful to Him who bestowed it, shall justly not receive from Him length of days for ever and ever. 4. But as the animal body is certainly not itself the soul, yet has fellowship with the soul as long as God pleases; so the soul herself is not life, but partakes in that life bestowed upon her by God. Wherefore also the prophetic word declares of the first-formed man, “He became a living soul,” teaching us that by the participation of life the soul became alive; so that the soul, and the life which it possesses, must be understood as being separate existences. When God therefore bestows life and perpetual duration, it comes to pass that even souls which did not previously exist should henceforth endure [for ever], since God has both willed that they should exist, and should continue in existence. For the will of God ought to govern and rule in all things, while all other things give way to Him, are in subjection, and devoted to His service. Thus far, then, let me speak concerning the creation and the continued duration of the soul. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church   (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Chapter XXXIV, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Points 2, 3, 4)                                                                                          Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html

Please consider the explanations below from this quote:

  1. The Wicked will not receive the length of days “for ever and ever”

 

“… But he who shall reject it, and prove himself ungrateful to his Maker, inasmuch as he has been created, and has not recognised Him who bestowed [the gift upon him], deprives himself of [the privilege of] continuance for ever and ever [literally, ‘to the ages of Ages’]. And, for this reason, the Lord declared to those who showed themselves ungrateful towards Him: “If ye have not been faithful in that which is little, who will give you that which is great? ” indicating that those who, in this brief temporal life, have shown themselves ungrateful to Him who bestowed it, shall justly not receive from Him length of days for ever and ever. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons

  1. This continuance of life refers to the Context of “souls and spirits” as Blessed St. Irenaeous defined this first as prior as follows:“… so also any one who thinks thus respecting souls and spirits, and, in fact, respecting all created things, will not by any means go far astray, inasmuch as all things that have been made had a beginning when they were formed, but endure as long as God wills that they should have an existence and continuance …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons

iii. The continuance in the ‘length of days for ever and ever’ denied to the Wicked means that the Wicked remain in a “spirit state” as they are not made alive  with “a body” as the context of “Living soul” below means  (1 Corinthians 15:20 – 23)

“…4. But as the animal body is certainly not itself the soul, yet has fellowship with the soul as long as God pleases; so the soul herself is not life, but partakes in that life bestowed upon her by God. Wherefore also the prophetic word declares of the first-formed man, “He became a living soul,” teaching us that by the participation of life the soul became alive;  …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons

 

Please notice carefully that the “soul becoming alive” has to do with it gaining a “body” as the “soul herself is not life” as Blessed St. Irenaeous clearly explains above using the past example of the “living soul” of the First Man formed likewise too in analogy.

 

  1. It is also interesting to note that St. Irenaeous doesn’t view Eternity as the next age singularly but rather as a “long series of ages” in the Context of ‘for ever and ever’ which may thus also be viewed as ‘ages of Ages’ literally

 

“… Nevertheless they endure, and extend their existence into a long series of ages in accordance with the will of God their Creator; so that He grants them that they should be thus formed at the beginning, and that they should so exist afterwards. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons

 

So again, neither does this contradict the position that the ‘spirit may be saved’ post Final Judgment after both the “body and soul” are destroyed in Gehenna.

 

  1. There is also a ‘possibility’ that St. Irenaeous may have believed in Christ Centered Universalism as per quote below

“… Christ, who was called the Son of God before the ages, was manifested in the fulness of time, in order that He might cleanse us through His blood, who were under the power of sin, presenting us as pure sons to His Father, if we yield ourselves obediently to the chastisement of the Spirit. AND IN THE END OF TIME HE SHALL COME TO DO AWAY WITH ALL EVIL, AND TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS [Colossians 1:16,20*], in order that there may be AN END OF ALL IMPURITIES. … ” – Blessed St. Irenaeous, Bishop of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church   (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Fragment XXXIX, FRAGMENTS FROM THE LOST WRITINGS OF IRENAEUS)

Translation Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-fragments.html

Because just like the quote earlier shows that the wicked spirit may “not” get continuance in a “body and soul for ever and ever” (or literally “ages of Ages”),   his general quotes below seem to imply that at some ‘future maturity time’ God may actually may make “ALL FLESH ANEW” (implying each spirit gets a body + soul too to become flesh) referring to the “WHOLE HUMAN RACE” Context in his quotes below showing even that the ‘Punishment of Backsliding’ will correct them eventually:

“… Proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His [FUTURE] manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father “to GATHER ALL THINGS in ONE,” and to RAISE UP ANEW ALL FLESH of the WHOLE HUMAN RACE, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, “every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and THINGS UNDER the EARTH [Hell], and that every tongue should confess” to Him, …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous, Bishop of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church   (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Chapter X, ‘Against Heresies’, Book I, Point 1)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html

Note: Some may argue that the ‘raise up anew all flesh of the human race’ can refer to before some are cast into the Lake of Fire which is also possible. In that case, perhaps the wicked is saved in the spirit-state only post-judgment.

 

 

 

The next quote below too seems ‘general’ toward ‘man’ where the phrase “… the DISSOLUTION of the FLESH …” in the Context of ‘Ending All Evil’ in “…he [MAN] should continue a sinner for ever [to the AGE, AEON], NOR that the SIN which surrounded him should be IMMORTAL, and EVIL INTERMINABLE and IRREMEDIABLE.  …” implies that “… MAN, CEASING at length to live to SIN, and dying to it, might begin to live to God…” seems like a similar phrase to “…but LIVE according to God in the SPIRIT. …” (1 Peter 4:6, NKJV).

 

 

If true, then “… the DISSOLUTION of the FLESH …” can refer to the Destruction of both “body and Soul” in the Lake of Fire (Matthew 10:28) which causes the ‘end of sin in them’ and finally they “… , might begin to live to God…” in the spirit-state not being disobedient anymore (as the past analogy of 1 Peter 3:18 – 20 makes this possible too) where this entire process might what be referred to in Bible Verses below in full:

 

 

“… 6For this reason the GOSPEL was PREACHED also to those who are DEAD, that they might be JUDGED according to men in the FLESH, but LIVE according to God in the SPIRIT. …” (1 Peter 4:6, NKJV)

 

 

This quote by St. Irenaeous in full really seems to indicate Christ Centered Universalism which might be understood in full as follows as the phrase  “… He pitied him [MAN], [and did NOT desire] that he [MAN] should continue a sinner for ever [to the AGE, AEON], ..” (with [additions of AGE/AEON] to read it with the ‘literal possibility]) seems to imply this:

 

 

“… He pitied him [MAN], [and did NOT desire] that he [MAN] should continue a sinner for ever [to the AGE, AEON], NOR that the SIN which surrounded him should be IMMORTAL, and EVIL INTERMINABLE and IRREMEDIABLE. … and thus causing sin to cease, putting an END to it by the DISSOLUTION of the FLESH, which should take place in the earth, so that MAN, CEASING at length to live to SIN, and dying to it, might begin to live to God…  ADAM received NEW LIFE; and the LAST ENEMY, DEATH, is DESTROYED, which at the first had taken possession of MAN. Therefore, WHEN MAN has been LIBERATED, “… HIS SALVATION is DEATH’s DESTRUCTION. When therefore the Lord VIVIFIES MAN, that is, ADAM, DEATH is at the same time DESTROYED …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous, Bishop of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church    (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD,  ‘Against Heresies’ Book 3, Chapter XXIII, Point 6, Point 7)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html

 

The Punishment (of body + soul destroyed in Gehenna) may bring about “healing” from “Apostasy” via “Punishment” as St. Irenaeous is quoting Jeremiah 2:19 below clearly in post-Judgment Context:

 

 

“…The Lord has therefore endured all these things on our behalf, in order that we, having been instructed by means of them all, may be in all respects circumspect for the TIME TO COME and that, having been RATIONALLY taught to love God, we may continue in His perfect love: for God has displayed LONG-SUFFERING in the case of MAN’s APOSTASY; while man has been instructed by means of it, as also the prophet says, “THINE OWN APOSTASY shall HEAL THEE;  [Jeremiah 2:19]” God thus DETERMINING ALL THINGS BEFOREHAND [Ephesians 1:11] for the BRINGING of MAN to PERFECTION [Ephesians 1:9 – 10], for his edification, and for the revelation of His DISPENSATIONS, that goodness may both be made apparent, and righteousness perfected, and that the CHURCH may be FASHIONED after the IMAGE of His Son, and that MAN may FINALLY be brought to MATURITY at SOME FUTURE TIME, becoming ripe through such privileges to see and comprehend God …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous, Bishop of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church    (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Book 4, Chapter XXXVII)

 

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html

 

 

 

Compare:

“… THINE OWN WICKEDNESS SHALL CORRECT THEE, AND THY BACKSLIDINGS SHALL REPROVE THEE:  know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts. …” (Jeremiah 2:19, KJV)

 

 

 

 

 

St. Irenaeous’ quote below seem to affirm even for these “… GNOSTIC HERETICS their  SOULS, REMAIN IN THE INTERMEDIATE PLACE; while, in as far as THEY ARE BODY, THEY WILL BE CONSUMED WITH THE REST OF MATTER .…” where the phrase “… CONSUMED WITH THE REST OF MATTER …” in the context of “… consumed by that fire …” seems to refer to the FINAL LAKE of FIRE (because only in that JUDGMENT can the WICKED’S BODIES be CONSUMED with the REST of MATTER which cannot happen before THEIR RESURRECTION OF JUDGMENT first, right?)

 

“… And then the DOCTRINE CONCERNING THE RESURRECTION  OF BODIES WHICH WE BELIEVE, will emerge true and certain [from their system]; since, [as we hold, ] God, when He resuscitates our mortal bodies which preserved righteousness, will render them INCORRUPTIBLE AND IMMORTAL. For God is superior to nature, and has in Himself the disposition [to show kindness], because He is good; and the ability to do so, because He is mighty; and the faculty of fully carrying out His purpose, because He is rich and perfect. …  3. But these men are in all points inconsistent with themselves, when they decide that all souls do not enter into the intermediate place, but those of the righteous only. For they maintain that, according to nature and substance, three sorts [of being] were produced by the Mother: the first, which proceeded from perplexity, and weariness, and fear-that is material substance; the second from impetuosity -that is animal substance; but that which she brought forth after the vision of those angels who wait upon Christ, is spiritual substance. If, then, that substance which she brought forth will by all means enter into the Pleroma because it is spiritual, while that which is material will remain below because it is material, and shall be totally consumed by the fire which bums within it, why should not the whole animal substance go into the intermediate place, into which also they send the Demiurge? But what is it which shall enter within their Pleroma? For they maintain that souls shall continue in the intermediate place, while bodies, because they possess material substance, when they have been resolved into matter, shall be consumed by that fire which exists in it; but their body being thus destroyed, and their soul remaining in the intermediate place, no part of man will any longer be left to enter in within the Pleroma. For the INTELLECT OF MAN-HIS MIND, thought, mental intention, and such like-is NOTHING ELSE THAN HIS SOUL; but the emotions and operations of the soul itself have no substance apart from the soul. What part of them, then, will still remain to enter into the Pleroma? For THEY THEMSELVES, in as far as THEY ARE SOULS, REMAIN IN THE INTERMEDIATE PLACE; while, in as far as THEY ARE BODY, THEY WILL BE CONSUMED WITH THE REST OF MATTER .…” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church    (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXIX, Points 2-partial, 3)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html

 

 

Please notice that at the end (after mocking their error), St. Irenaeous explains that even these heretics in the context of souls will remain in the “intermediate place” but “their bodies” will be consumed with the rest of matter seems to indicate the possibility that post Gehenna such a thing may be possible too except that even the “soul with body” is destroyed leaving only “possibly” the “spirit” saved in the “intermediate place*”.

 

*Intermediate Place certainly refers to the Spirit World Context as seen in contrast of the ‘Christians Case’ where we are Promised full Resurrection Bodily before entering Heaven (and until then we can only enjoy the Intermediate Places with our soul as per the Story of the Rich Man and Lazarus, Luke 16:19 – 31):

 

 

“… For as the Lord “went away in the midst of the SHADOW OF DEATH” [Ps. 23:4], where the SOULS OF THE DEAD WERE, yet afterwards arose in the body, and after the resurrection was taken up [into heaven], it is manifest that THE SOULS OF HIS DISCIPLES ALSO, upon whose account the Lord underwent these things, SHALL GO AWAY INTO THE INVISIBLE PLACE ALLOTTED TO THEM BY GOD, and THERE REMAIN UNTIL RESURRECTION, awaiting that event; then RECEIVING THEIR BODIES, and RISING IN THEIR ENTIRETY, THAT IS BODILY, just as the Lord arose, they shall come thus into the presence of God. “For no disciple is above the Master, but every one that is perfect shall be as his Master” [Luke 6:40]. As our MASTER, therefore, DID NOT at once depart,  TAKING FLIGHT [TO HEAVEN], but AWAITED THE TIME OF HIS RESURRECTION prescribed by the Father, which had been also shown forth through Jonas, and rising again after three days was taken up [to heaven]; so ought WE ALSO AWAIT THE TIME OF OUR RESURRECTION PRESCRIBED BY GOD and foretold by the prophets, and so, RISING, BE TAKEN UP, AS MANY AS THE LORD SHALL ACCOUNT WORTHY OF THIS [privilege]. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church    (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book V, Chapter XXXI)

 

Source: http://www.regels.org/Irenaeus-Millennarism.htm

 

 

 

 

“… And the SPIRIT and the BRIDE say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And LET HIM WHO THIRSTS COME. Whoever desires, let him TAKE THE WATER OF LIFE FREELY. …” – Blessed Apostle St. John (Revelation 22:17, NKJV)

 

Where possibly:

 

The Spirit = God

 

The Bride = Christians (those with Elect Salvation)

 

who thirsts” = those with non-Elect Salvation Possibility?

 

 

Also I do “not” think that any ‘saved wicked spirit’ of the past gets an inheritance in the Kingdom but ONLY some OUTSIDE the “Kingdom of GodSalvation.

 

 

How far will God Decide?

 

Let God Alone Decide.

 

Yes, We can ask but GOD ALONE DECIDES.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion

 

Since none of these First Christianity Greats of Faith are going to Hell for their beliefs as listed above (regardless if it is right or wrong), neither are we going to be a ‘FALSE TEACHER’ based on considering such an INTERPRETATION as a POSSIBILITY ONLY all based on 1 Corinthians 3:13 – 15’s SAVED BY FIRE CASE only letting GOD DECIDE one day.

 

Regardless if Purgatory or Lake of Fire Context is True for these set of Verses in 1 Corinthians 3:13 – 15 (where the latter is more likely I think), these Great Church Fathers  clearly did see that SALVATION was POSSIBLE after SPIRIT WORLD JUDGMENT for “some” (if not all). Can you see it?

 

“… And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: …” (Hebrews 9:27, KJV)

 

So this Verse above is NOT contradicted at all because AFTER that JUDGMENT in the ‘Spirit World’ for ‘some’, they seemed to be SAVED BY FIRE if GOD WILLS it. Since none of these quoted Church Fathers here are unsaved (and they seem pretty sure of their views), we won’t be unsaved either to consider these as POSSIBILITIES likewise. Can you see it?

 

 

In contrast a ‘Reward of Faith’ includes this for ‘Christians‘ where NONE of them go through this AFTERLIFE or SPIRIT WORLD JUDGMENT (which I think is more likely the case) and the Verses in 1 Corinthians 3:13 – 15 are more suited for the “Unbelievers and Heretics’ case” as both St. Gregory and St. Ambrose of Milan’s quote earlier seems to imply respectively, simply because this Verse below seems to EXEMPT all TYPE OF AFTERLIFE JUDGMENT to ANY [True] CHRISTIAN:

 

“… “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT, but has PASSED FROM DEATH INTO LIFE. …” – The KING, Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:24, NKJV)

 

 

 

**Regarding the Strong Possibility of the existence of these “non-Elect Salvation POSSIBILITY“, please consider the Testimony of St. Irenaeous of Lyons as described as follows (OUTILINE):

 

Though we do not have quotes by St. Irenaeous describing the Shepherd of Hermas’ other quotes, since he believed it as SCRIPTURE, so ANY PART of this SHEPHERD of HERMAS Writing including these POSSIBLE NON-ELECT SALVATION QUOTES may Reveal this as POSSIBLE as discussed for example in Pages  502 to 504 in this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.

 

Since St. Irenaeous believed in the SHEPHERD of HERMAS as Scripture (which is well preserved across Christianity too), here is a POSSIBLE NON-ELECT SALVATION LINK type of Quote relating to some GOOD non-Christians may BELIEVE AFTER SEEING and be SAVED in the Spirit World as discussed in Pages 1033 to 1035 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.

 

In light of these non-Elect Salvation type possibilities demonstrated by the SHEPHERD of HERMAS Writing which St. Irenaeous himself considered as SCRIPTURE, it could help explain how St. Irenaeous of Lyons’ POSSIBLE QUOTES regarding SECOND BADGE of RIGHTEOUS being SAVED on JUDGMENT DAY only as per CHILIASM TIMELINE MAY refer to some NON-CHRISTIANS being SAVED is possible as discussed in Pages 1389 to 1397 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook.

 

For “What are OTHER POSSIBILITIES of DOCTRINE in St. Irenaeous of Lyon’s Writings?” please visit Pages 1398 to 1425 of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook too.

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

Example Edifying Comment for Discussion regarding what is Written in Holy Scripture in 1 Corinthians 3:13 – 15’s Mysterious “Saved by Fire Case“.

 

 

 

 

 

Page 1470 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook listing the Pages where “non-Elect Salvation Possibility” quotes may be found in “First Christianity“.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page 1469 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook concluding that someone (fallen Christian or non-Christian) being “Saved after Spirit World Judgment of some sort as a non-Elect Salvation Possibility“) as per these important “Church Fatherquotes does NOT make ‘anyone a heretic’ for considering it as a “possibility only“. Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page 1449 of the #SafeRouteScripturallyBook concluding that all these Church Fathers including St. Augustine of Hippo too believed in some kind of ‘Spirit World Judgment Fire’ (in his opinion “purgatory“) implying the “common ground” that “Salvation being possible in the Spirit World AFTER DEATH” does NOT Contradict the Work of Christ.

 

 

 

The argument is about whether these Verses means for now only (i.e. before Judgment Day such a ‘Spirit World Salvation is available’) or whether it is available even on Judgment Day and beyond and also whether it is for “Christians only” or  “some” or “all” eventually.

 

If these Church Fathers are “not” heretics “nor” unsaved for Preaching their views as Doctrine neither will we for considering these as “Possibilities only” likewise.

 

 

Also the “Opinion of St. Augustine” is very important indeed simply because even Blessed John Calvin (Founder of the Reformed Church Protestants) himself learnt his theology from St. Augustine’s Writings. Example quote:

 

“…  Augustine is so wholly within me, that if I wished to write a confession of my faith, I could do so with all fullness and satisfaction to myself out of his writings  …” – Blessed John Calvin, Protestant Reformer Theologian (Creator of the Five Point Calvinism or Tulips Doctrine for Protestanism)

Source:[ Calvin, John. A Treatise on the Eternal Predestination of God. in Calvin, John (1987). Calvin’s Calvinism. Translated by Henry Cole. Grandville, MI: Reformed Free Publishing Association. p. 38  ]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustinian_Calvinism

 

Let God Decide who is right and reward that and also have Mercy on our Theological Errors (either way).

 

Peace to you

If the Most High God Taught Prophet Daniel this #CharityDoctrine for Removal of “Judgment of Sins” in this Verse (Daniel 4:27 in image too), then we ought to likewise to be “Wise Biblically“.

 

Source Post:

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/pfbid0JKP8qddb1KpGvdUmB9ogkgqagbXKkG5qVTHzsf5PKzw7efCyM7rLV923ZnnbTR4Fl

 

“… Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and BREAK OFF THY SINS BY RIGHTEOUSNESS, and THINE INIQUITIES BY SHEWING MERCY TO THE POOR; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity. …” – Blessed and Holy Prophet Daniel (Daniel 4:27, KJV based on the Masoretic Text)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/daniel/4-27.htm

 

Compare:

 

” … 27Therefore, O king, let my counsel please thee, and ATONE FOR THY SINS BY ALMS, and THINE INIQUITIES BY COMPASSION ON THE POOR: it may be God will be long-suffering to thy trespasses.” … – Blessed and Holy Prophet Daniel (Daniel 4:27, Brenton Septuagint Translation, based on the Septuagint or LXX)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/daniel/4.htm

 

Yes, this is the ‘same Prophet Daniel’ to whom was Revealed the “Shine like Heavens vs shine like stars” Mystery too, these Verses:

 

“… Those who are WISE shall shine Like the BRIGHTNESS OF THE FIRMAMENT, And THOSE WHO TURN MANY to RIGHTEOUSNESS Like the STARS forever and ever. 4“But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” …” (Daniel 12:3 – 4, NKJV based on the Masoretic Text)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/nkjv/daniel/12.htm

 

“…  3And the WISE SHALL SHINE as the BRIGHTNESS OF THE FIRMAMENT, and SOME OF THE MANY RIGHTEOUS as the STARS FOR EVER and EVER. 4And thou, Daniel, close the words, and seal the book to the time of the end; until many are taught, and knowledge is increased. …” (Daniel 12:3 – 4, Brenton Septuagint Translation, based on the Septuagint or LXX)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/daniel/12.htm

 

Comments:

 

  1. Convert Many (“Win souls“)

 

‘… Shine like the STARS …’ Levels

 

  1. Those who are WISE (Theologically more accurate) = Original Word = Insight (Context Knowledge)

 

‘… Shine like the FIRMAMENTS (HEAVENS*) …’

 

*Note: The Word “Firmament” refers to the “HEAVENS or FOUNDATION OF HEAVENS” which is WAY BRIGHTER than the STARS’ Glory where all these are in the Context of “Celestial (Heavenly) Glory referring to the Final Resurrection Body of Christians’ as Revealed in 1 Corinthians 15:39 – 42 clearly as ‘it is Written’.

 

  1. Please also notice carefully that the Septuagint Reads slightly differently for Daniel 12:3 – 4 (and it is well documented too that the Septuagint has been more accurate than the Masoretic based on New Testament Quotations itself*) where only “some of the righteous” shine like “stars” (not all the righteous) implying that the “shine like stars ones” (are Christians having Celestial/Heavenly Resurrection Body, due to sharing One Flesh with Lord Jesus Christ being His Bride/Wife Allegorically) while in contrast the “righteous that do NOT shine like stars” (could refer to the Terrestrial/Earthly Resurrection bodies of the saved non-Christians from among the “nations who are saved” as discussed in many pages of this #SafeRouteScripturallyBook).

 

 

*Examples of Septuagint being Quoted in the New Testament as being more accurate most of the times:

 

Base Question: Would God Allow some Bible Verses to have ‘alternatives’ proving some Scribal error (intentionally or unintentionally) has occurred? Yes. the Verse below has prophesied that some Scribes would alter some words of the Original Hebrew Scripture:

 

“… How can you say, ‘We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us’? Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood. …” (Jeremiah 8:8, NKJV)

 

So, before condemning the Septuagint  as corrupted (as the arguments can go both ways), please consider these facts:

 

  1. i) Septuagint vs Masoretic – Historical Error

 

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/pfbid0hn2nduWmQGS432DGMcnL1hpTatr7RXNRXQxNpuHfov737fP3NjbnagF472zDLhkpl

 

  1. ii) Bible Mystery – Masoretic to Septuagint – Comparison

 

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/pfbid06EUKzuk2jHncvgs2RwzgDCM6EjK7W3DieUxHb1gVgNnCMuJdGoJyXXFSuZ5TUmqsl

 

iii) Example Quotes by Bible Scholars with Proofs in Links showing the Actual Bible Verses Comparisons between the Masoretic vs Septuagint (LXX) with respect to the New Testament Authority

“… Marcos’s judgment on the matter is “that most of the the Old Testament quotations in the New follow the text of the LXX in one of its known forms.” (265) Thus, in some instances where the NT and LXX do not match, the NT may reflect an earlier or alternate version of the LXX. …”

Source: https://www.kalvesmaki.com/LXX/NTChart.htm

  1. iv) Septuagint is more reliable Biblically and Historically

 

  1. i) Some Notes on the Apostles’ usage of the Septuagint may be seen in list given in link below as the Masoretic Text is corrupted in each case when compared to the New Testament’s Divine Choice

 

http://www.bible-researcher.com/quote01.html

 

  1. ii) Very few examples of the New Testament exists where the Masoretic was chosen or more accurate than the Septuagint

 

“… Sometimes the Septuagint diverges from the Hebrew with no loss of contemporary meaning, but at the cost of prophetic significance. Thus where the Hebrew of Hosea 11:1 reads, “When Israel was a child I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son”, the Greek renders it, “For Israel was an infant and I loved him, and out of Egypt I recalled his children”. The prophetic and Christological significance of the verse, attested to by St. Matthew in Matthew 2:13f, has vanished from the Septuagint. The upshot of all this is that the Septuagint should not be preferred to the Masoretic at every turn. At very least the Septuagint should be used along with the Masoretic. …”

 

Source:

 

https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/nootherfoundation/reflections-on-the-septuagint/

 

Comment: ‘… NET Bible has the following footnote on Hosea 11:1: The MT reads בְנִי (vÿni, “My son”); however, the LXX reflects בָנָיו (vanav, “his sons”). The MT should be retained as original here because of internal evidence; it is much more appropriate to the context. Obviously, Evangelist Matthew did not quote this particular verse from Septuagint for a reason.  …’

 

Note: Sometimes the Septuagint itself may have had few variation versions (‘majority’ vs ‘minority’) for example for Isaiah 9:6 where the ‘minority might have been the Original’ as discussed in post below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159555996907784

 

Even the Canon of Old Testament Scripture may be a more Complex Mystery as discussed in post below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159568863652784

 

 

  1. v) Here’s another quote

“… There are in all two hundred and eighty-three direct quotations from the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) in the New Testament.[1] Chester Beatty XII, Greek manuscript of the Book of Enoch, with the text quoted by Epistle of Jude (4th century) In about ninety instances, the Septuagint is literally quoted. In around eighty further instances, the quote is altered in some way. For example, at Matthew 21:42 Jesus says “Did ye never read in the scriptures that the stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner?” – a reference to Psalm 118:22. Likewise, Mark 12:10. The Epistle of Jude quotes the pseudepigraphal Book of Enoch (1 Enoch 1:9) and the Assumption of Moses. Other quotations are sometimes made directly from the Hebrew text (e.g. Matthew 4:15–16, John 19:37, 1 Corinthians 15:54). …”

 

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotations_from_the_Hebrew_Bible_in_the_New_Testament

 

 

  1. vi) Bible Story – Which Old Testament is most Accurate?

 

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/pfbid0347cJGw9T8RTgQYNWEuAHHkT9CSVqoaqVun29GmwUdPzSk9gpbbjbHGeVoM9WFdmbl

 

 

 

vii) Lord Jesus Christ Himself – did He Choose the Septuagint over the Hebrew Masoretic Text?

 

Compare:

 

“6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.” (Mark 7:6 – 9, KJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/kjv/mark/7.htm

 

“Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:” (Isaiah 29:13, KJV, based on the Masoretic Text)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/isaiah/29-13.htm

 

“13And the Lord has said, This people draw nigh to me with their mouth, and they honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me: but in vain do they worship me, teaching the commandments and doctrines of men.” (Isaiah 29:13, Brenton Septuagint Translation, based on the Septuagint)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/isaiah/29.htm

 

Example Analysis, to quote:

 

“… Jesus quotes the LXX version of Isaiah 29:13 in Mark 7:6-8; the MT version says “their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men,” with no reference to the worship being vain; the LXX version says “They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.” Jesus chooses the LXX, which makes a difference. The context of Mark 7 is not on worship, but on the way they’re living and expecting others to live (ceremonial washing before eating, the Corban, etc.), so the MT version of Isaiah 29:13 doesn’t fit very well, while the LXX version is directly on point, since it deals with both vain worship and teachings. In Matthew 21:16, Jesus asks, “have you never read, ‘From the lips of children and infants, you have ordained praise’?” That’s the Greek version. The Hebrew version says “ordained strength.” And note that Jesus is responding to the chief priests and scribes of Jerusalem, who were upset at the children praising Jesus, “Hosanna to the Son of David” (Matthew 21:15). …”

 

Source:  https://shamelesspopery.com/did-jesus-use-the-greek-version-of-the-bible/

 

viii) What about the ‘New Testament’?

 

I believe that the New Testament Writings are Inerrant. If ever the New Testament contradicts the Old Testament, it is because the Old Testament has that ‘Scribal Error’ (Jeremiah 8:8). I believe that Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ Himself Mysteriously Proves this Perspective which I have Written above as Right as it is from Him that I learnt this in Verses below, please consider:

 

  1. Masoretic (Hebrew) Text – Old Testament

 

“The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;” (Isaiah 61:1, KJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/isaiah/61-1.htm

 

  1. Septuagint (Greek) LXX Text – Old Testament

 

“1The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me; he has sent me to preach glad tidings to the poor, to heal the broken in heart, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind;” (Isaiah 61:1, Brenton Septuagint Translation)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/isaiah/61.htm

 

iii. New Testament

 

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 4:18, KJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/luke/4-18.htm

 

What do you see?

 

Firstly, the KJV argument for this Verse does not list out all the aspects honestly in link below (as you can compare with what’s written next, ‘the other side of the coin’):

 

http://www.kjvtoday.com/home/reliable-hebrew-text/did-jesus-quote-luke-418-19-in-the-septuagint

 

  1. The Septuagint text is far more accurate in a ‘word to word’ quotation to Christ’s Own Words in Luke 4:18 than the Masoretic Text.

 

  1. In Luke 4:18, Christ was Reading from the Great Isaiah Scroll as Verses below reveal:

 

“16And he [Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ]* came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias [Isaiah]. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,” (Luke 4:16 – 17, KJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/kjv/luke/4.htm

 

*[Emphasis Mine throughout]

 

 

  1. Differences

 

  1. Luke 4:18 has “to set at liberty them that are bruised” while the Septuagint is missing this phrase entirely while the Masoretic Text is corrupted with a different phrase namely “and the opening of the prison to them that are bound“. So, the Septuagint is corrupted for this phrase. Liberty is the Greek ἄφεσις Aphesis meaning to release. Bruised is θραύω thrauó and can mean ‘bound’ as some claim but the word “prison” doesn’t appear in Christ’s quote at all which clearly proves that whatever the case, it is NOT a ‘word to word’ preservation in the Masoretic Text.

 

  1. Luke 4:18 and Septuagint both match in that the Gospel if primarily for the “poor” while the Masoretic uses a different word “meek” which is relatable but again is not ‘word to word’ inerrant.

 

  1. Luke 4:18 has the phrase “and recovering of sight to the blind” which matches the Septuagint’s “and recovery of sight to the blind” while the Masoretic Text does NOT have this phrase at all proving again that the Masoretic Text is corrupted in this case.

 

Note: The non-Christian Jews may use this Verse to claim that Luke 4:18 is corrupted but as a Christian we see it in the opposite way only, namely that the “New Testament’s Christ’s Word is Inerrant” as opposed to the Masoretic or Septuagint even.

 

Summary

 

Christ’s Own Most Blessed Words in Luke 4:18 proves that both the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint have been corrupted in some way as these Verses itself demonstrate the fulfillment of Jeremiah 8:8 (indeed, Christ has Fulfilled this Verse too by His Infamous Quote above – Can you see it?).

 

  1. So, if Christ was reading the ‘Masoretic Text’ as the King James Bible (KJV) Scholars ascertain that ‘Christ must have read from the Hebrew Version only’, then why is ‘their own translation of their own chosen Masoretic Text in Isaiah 61:1′ different from their own translation of Luke 4:18 and not word to word (both KJV translations)?

 

Please note that Christ is “not” paraphrasing these Isaiah Verses as He does in other times in the New Testament (e.g. Matthew 21:42) here simply because Luke 4:16 mentions that “He Read” from the Scroll of Scripture as “it was Written” as Luke 4:17 clearly records.

 

Since Christ cannot be reading a Corrupted Text with His Mouth, there are at least two possibilities then:

 

a). The Scroll which Christ Read from was as per Luke 4:18 only. Almost no Bible Scholar nowadays want to admit to this Truth because to say so would mean both the Septuagint and the Masoretic Text are “corrupted” and “different” from the Great Isaiah Scroll in the Time of Christ as these differences prove. Thus neither the Masoretic Text nor the Septuagint are word to word preservation of ‘that Original Old Testament Bible’ from the time of Christ ‘as claimed’. I will choose to believe the Gospel accounts that Christ Read that only.

 

  1. b) Christ might have held the Masoretic Text in His Hand or even the Septuagint for that matter (though this is highly unlikely) but when “He Read” what “was Written”, He Corrected the Parts which was Wrong as the Gospel Writers Record. But if this is the case, there would have been some commotion in the Synagogue where He Read due to ‘different words’ of which none of the Gospel Writers testify. So, this is highly unlikely too as compared to the possibility above.

 

Also the type of Wisdom of God to Prophet Daniel was unique and deep which sometimes is not found in other Prophets of God too which is demonstrated in Verse below as it is compared to even ‘possible Lucifer’s ability to know as well (allegorically)‘:

 

“… 3(Behold, you are WISER THAN DANIEL! There is NO SECRET that can be HIDDEN FROM you! … 6‘Therefore thus SAYS the LORD GOD: “Because you have set your heart as the heart of a god, … 9“Will you still say before him who slays you, ‘I am a god’? But you shall be a man, and not a god, In the hand of him who slays you. …” (Ezekiel 28:3, 6, 9, NKJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/nkjv/ezekiel/28.htm

 

If the Bible Teaches it we should consider it seriously likewise. Well, no one goes to Hell fo