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Olam and Lake of Fire Mystery in the Book of 1Enoch

Last Updated: 14 June 2020   Olam and Lake of Fire Mystery in the Book of 1Enoch   This Topic…

Last Updated: 14 June 2020

 

Olam and Lake of Fire Mystery in the Book of 1Enoch

 

This Topic is discussed from Page 1519 in free downloadable e-book in link below:

 

 

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0) Translation Source – Each quote from the Book of 1Enoch is from link below unless stated otherwise

 

http://wesley.nnu.edu/index.php?id=2126

 

1) Aidiois vs Olam = Aeon = Age-during for 10,000 years Possibility

 

Olam – Aeon for Punishment of Some Fallen Angels as 10,000 years?

 

This next Verse may indicate that the Punishment of the fallen angels to the “ages of Ages” (Revelation 20:10) may be Equal to ‘ten thousand years’ = ‘for ever’ (a translation whose original word often refers to “Olam” in Hebrew or “Aeon” in Greek or “Age-during” literally in English) indicating hope that punishments may not be ‘forever’ as the original meaning of the word could mean ’10 thousand years in the case of these fallen angels’:

 

“… And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no 13 birds, but it was a waste and horrible place. I saw there seven stars like great burning mountains, 14 and to me, when I inquired regarding them, The angel said: ‘This place is the end of heaven and earth: this has become a prison for the stars and the host of heaven. And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of 16 their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. And He was wroth with them, and bound them till the time when their guilt should be consummated (even) for ten thousand years.’ …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 18, Verses 12 – 16)

 

or

 

“… 1,2 And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither 3 a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. And there I saw 4 seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains and burning with fire. Then 5 I said: ‘For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither’ Then said Uriel, one of the holy angels, who was with me, and was chief over them, and said: ‘Enoch, why 6 dost thou ask, and why art thou eager for the truth These are of the number of the stars of heaven, which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years, 7 the time entailed by their sins, are consummated.’ And from thence I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of 8 fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. Then I said: ‘How 9 fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!’ Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: ‘Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright’ And 10 I answered: ‘Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.’ And he said unto me: ‘This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.’ …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 2, Verses 1 – 10)

A common view: The ‘10,000 years refer to the angels being kept now till the Day of Judgment’.

 

Reply: If that is so, it’s saying that the Day of Judgment is 10,000 years into the future from around Blessed Enoch’s time. It is more likely that Enoch was taken to see the ‘future Prophecy’ as this Book of 1Enoch attests and he is seeing the Punishment Sentence ‘after Judgment Day sometimes’. No one can say for sure. The Bible Verse below by apostle Jude who quoted the Book of 1Enoch seems to talk about these chains of which the word translated as ‘Eternal’ here refers to ‘Aidiois’ (Koine Greek) which is a ‘stronger word usually meant as eternity’ than even ‘Olam/Aeon’:

“And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal [Aidiois] bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,” (Jude 1:14, NASB)

What I’m saying is that if what you say is true, then

“… eternal [Aidiois] bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, …” (Jude 1:14) = The ‘10,000 years refer to the angels being kept now till the Day of Judgment’ = “… bound them till the time when their guilt should be consummated (even) for ten thousand years.’ …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 18) = “… These are of the number of the stars of heaven, which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years, …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 21) = “… This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever [Olam/Aeon?].’ …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 21)

Causes the implication

 

eternal [Aidiois] bonds = Prison/Chained for 10,000 years, not forever?

So, the word [Aidiois] which is stronger than [Aeon/Olam[ itself is not forever?

 

Only God Alone Decides whether this is “for ever” (Olam/Aeon/Age-during) indicating “10,000 years as per this passage” or more. An Interesting passage indeed.

 

2) An Example quote suggesting that “Olam/Aeonian” may not be forever but age-during only?

 

“… And he instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper, and thereby many sinned from eternity to 10 eternity and until this day. …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 69, Verse 9 – 10)

 

Reason: Sin did not ‘exist’ from ‘Eternity’ and hence the phrase above is certainly “Olam to Olam” or “Age to Age” or “Aeon to Aeon” as it occurs even in Psalm 90:2.

 

3) What if Olam/Aeon refers to long but limited time because it signifies “annihilation” especially for some devils?

 

“… 1 And Uriel said to me: ‘Here shall stand the angels who have connected themselves with women, and their spirits assuming many different forms are defiling mankind and shall lead them astray into sacrificing to demons as gods, (here shall they stand,) till the day of the great judgement in 2 which they shall be judged till they are made an end of. And the women also of the angels who 3 went astray shall become sirens.’ And I, Enoch, alone saw the vision, the ends of all things: and no man shall see as I have seen. …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 19, Verses 1 – 3)

 

Focus phrase proving possible annihilation: “… judged till they are made an end of. …”.

 

Comment: It can also mean they’re re-made into something new thereafter but it is ‘not’ Written here and thus remains a speculation.

 

4) Prayers for Men

 

Nothing wrong in praying for the Children of Men (1 Timothy 2:1) who are not in heaven as the righteous do it in the Heavenly places too:

 

“… 4 And there I saw another vision, the dwelling-places of the holy, And the resting-places of the righteous. 5 Here mine eyes saw their dwellings with His righteous angels, And their resting-places with the holy. And they petitioned and interceded and prayed for the children of men, And righteousness flowed before them as water, And mercy like dew upon the earth: Thus it is amongst them for ever and ever. 6a And in that place mine eyes saw the Elect One of righteousness and of faith, 7a And I saw his dwelling-place under the wings of the Lord of Spirits. 6b And righteousness shall prevail in his days, And the righteous and elect shall be without number before Him for ever and ever. 7b And all the righteous and elect before Him shall be strong as fiery lights, And their mouth shall be full of blessing, And their lips extol the name of the Lord of Spirits, And righteousness before Him shall never fail, [And uprightness shall never fail before Him.] 8 There I wished to dwell, And my spirit longed for that dwelling-place: …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 39, Verses 4 – 8)

Just like even the Apocalypse of Peter reveals further that the righteous pray for the damned of which it seems that it is ‘not’ wrong, but let God Alone Decide even in “that Day” (post-Judgment Day perhaps) as John 16:23 – 24 Reveals too.

 

 

Conclusion – Judgment Day Mystery – Who are the Elect, Righteous and Sinners?

I’m not saying that this is the meaning 100% but this is how I see it thus:

 

  1. Elect

 

The Elect are Christians who believe in Him who have both “Faith and Works”.

 

“… 1 And this is the second Parable concerning those who deny the name of the dwelling of the holy ones and the Lord of Spirits. 2 And into the heaven they shall not ascend, And on the earth they shall not come: Such shall be the lot of the sinners Who have denied the name of the Lord of Spirits, Who are thus preserved for the day of suffering and tribulation. 3 On that day Mine Elect One shall sit on the throne of glory And shall try their works, And their places of rest shall be innumerable. And their souls shall grow strong within them when they see Mine Elect Ones, And those who have called upon My glorious name: 4 Then will I cause Mine Elect One to dwell among them. And I will transform the heaven and make it an eternal blessing and light 5 And I will transform the earth and make it a blessing: And I will cause Mine elect ones to dwell upon it: But the sinners and evil-doers shall not set foot thereon. …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 45, Verses 1 – 5)

 

These Participate in the First Resurrection (1 Thessalonians 4:16, Luke 20:35 – 36, Matthew 25:1 – 13, John 5:25’s ‘hour now is’) which has Rapture after the Tribulation too (1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18).

How to be a Christian is discussed is Pages 1388 – 1420 & 1437 – 1441, Atonement Mystery in Pages 1493 – 1518 & 1291 – 1331, and The Rapture Theory is discussed in Pages 1421 – 1436, 1442 – 1467 and Preterism & Prophecy on Pages 1474 – 1492 in this Book.

 

 

  1. Righteous

 

“5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection … [Second Resurrection Described Next] … 11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:5, 11 – 15, NKJV)

 

Compare:

 

“…. [Chapter 51] 1 And in those days shall the earth also give back that which has been entrusted to it, And Sheol also shall give back that which it has received, And hell shall give back that which it owes. 5a For in those days the Elect One shall arise, 2 And he shall choose the righteous and holy from among them: For the day has drawn nigh that they should be saved. 3 And the Elect One shall in those days sit on My throne, And his mouth shall pour forth all the secrets of wisdom and counsel: For the Lord of Spirits hath given (them) to him and hath glorified him. 4 And in those days shall the mountains leap like rams, And the hills also shall skip like lambs satisfied with milk, And the faces of [all] the angels in heaven shall be lighted up with joy. 5b And the earth shall rejoice, c And the righteous shall dwell upon it, d And the elect shall walk thereon. …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 51, All Verses 1 – 5)

Please notice carefully that the ‘First Badge of Righteous’ containing ‘All Christians’ or ‘the Elect’ have already been Resurrected 1000 years earlier (Revelation 20:5) which was discussed in Chapter 50 of Book of 1Enoch prior. It is clear that Chapter 51 in Book of 1Enoch above is quoting the ‘Judgment Day Scenario’ as its Words are parallel to what is found in Revelation 20:11 – 15 too. Popular Christianity today claims that only the Wicked are raised after the 1000 years (Revelation 20:5) to be thrown into the Lake of Fire. However, Revelation 20:11 – 15 alludes to possibly some may be Saved on this Day even as they are judged according to their “works” only (Revelation 20:13).

 

The phrase above from the Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 51) above stating “… And hell shall give back that which it owes. 5a For in those days the Elect One shall arise, 2 And He shall choose the righteous and holy from among them: For the day has drawn nigh that they should be saved. …” seems to refer to ‘some’ of those from “Hell” (Sheol/Hades, compare with Revelation 20:13), are ‘going to be Saved’ and these are ‘righteous and holy’. Ehem ehem. How can a group of ‘righteous and holy’ be found in “Hell” unless it is as per the Original Meaning referring to ‘Hades/Sheol’ referring to the non-Christian righteous abodes as the Vision of Blessed Sadhu Sundar Singh & even Emmanuel Swedenborg for that matter has testified?

Christ’s Own Most Blessed Words Testify to a badge of ‘righteous and wicked’ being raised simultaneously and hence it cannot refer to the First Resurrection when viewed literally and it is pointed out clearly that these are Saved based on the “Good” or “Good Works” they did (not that the Works itself saves anyone but that the Order of Mercy of God is Implied thus by works) agreeing to all this in Verses below agreeing to the Chiliasm Perspective Perfectly again:

“And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.” (Daniel 12:2, NKJV)

 

“And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 25:46, NKJV)

 

“27and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. ” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:25, 27 – 28, NKJV)

I repeat, that as Chiliasm Doctrine Taught in First Christianity, e.g. St. Justin Martyr said that ‘all those who believed in Christ’ and ‘those of thirty, sixty and hundredfold fruit’ (Matthew 13:8) get Saved during the First Resurrection itself as St. Irenaeous of Lyons and St. Papias together with all direct disciples of the Apostles themselves have taught (as discussed in Pages 1314 – 1315, 1186 – 1188, 1118 – 1132) in free ebook in link below:

This means that this ‘Second Badge’ of Righteous who are Saved on Judgment Day must refer to non-Christian righteous who are Saved to inherit the “earth” (i.e.’near’ but ‘outside’ the Kingdom of Heavens Dwelling of Christians of the New Jerusalem City, Paradise and Heavens) as the Book of 1Enoch’s phrase implies here “… the earth shall rejoice, c And the righteous shall dwell upon it, d And the elect shall walk thereon. …”. Notice that the “Elect” (or Christians) walk only on the Earth because their abode is Way Higher as demonstrated inside the ‘Kingdom of the Heavens regions’.

 

They could be the Saved ones on Judgment Day whose name are in the Most Blessed Lamb’s Book of Life who get to visit the lowest abode of the ‘Kingdom of Heavens’, namely certain regions of the ‘New Jerusalem City’ (Revelation 21:2) which are open for them to ‘Visit’ as they pass through the Gates of the City in allowed common grounds from their dwelling on “earth” to Give Honour to God as these Verses may Describe:

 

” 24And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.” (Revelation 21:24 – 27, NKJV)

The New Jerusalem City Connects the New Earth to the Heavens :

“1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.” (Revelation 21:1 – 2, NKJV)

 

The Righteous are those who have “Works” especially ‘works of Mercy’ (Luke 10:25 – 37 example of the Good Samaritan) which was discussed in Pages 1353 – 1359 or 1367 and in the ‘Non-Elect Salvation last chapter’ on page 1225 onward in this book or in posts below too:

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159472747592784

or

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159438606357784

 

These example quotes from the Book of 1Enoch agrees too for such a definition of ‘righteous’:

 

  1. a) The righteous who are Saved on the Day of Judgment’s Second Resurrection are those who lived ‘without physical or internal violence’ of hating other men, i.e. those who ‘loved their neighbor as themselves’ (Compare Luke 10:25 – 27’s What to do to Inherit Eternal Life Answer Given by Christ)

 

“… 4 Fear ye not, ye souls of the righteous, And be hopeful ye that have died in righteousness. 5 And grieve not if your soul into Sheol has descended in grief, And that in your life your body fared not according to your goodness, But wait for the day of the judgement of sinners And for the day of cursing and chastisement. … 9 I tell you, ye sinners, ye are content to eat and drink, and rob and sin, and strip men naked, and 10 acquire wealth and see good days. Have ye seen the righteous how their end falls out, that no manner 11 of violence is found in them till their death ” Nevertheless they perished and became as though they had not been, and their spirits descended into Sheol in tribulation.” …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 102, Verses 4 – 5, 9 – 11)

 

  1. b) Judgment of Men based on Works by ‘Weighng in Balance’

“… 1 And after that I saw all the secrets of the heavens, and how the kingdom is divided, and how the 2 actions of men are weighed in the balance. …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 41, Verse 1)

 

 

Compare:

 

“… And the who did not completely acquire perfection but have acquired both sins and good works, come into the court of judgment; there, they are scorched as by a fire by the comparison of their good and evil deeds, and if, in fact, the scale of the good deeds weighs downwards, they are cleansed of punishment …” – Blessed St. Maximus the Confessor, Christian monk, theologian, and scholar, who was a civil servant, and an aide to the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius before he gave up this life in the political sphere to enter into the monastic life, who is venerated in both the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches. He was eventually persecuted for his Christological positions; following a trial, his tongue and right hand were mutilated. (c. 580 AD – c. 662 AD)

Source:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/henrykarlson/2020/01/st-maximos-and-universal-salvation/

 

iii. Sinners

 

“… [Chapter 50] 1 And in those days a change shall take place for the holy and elect, And the light of days shall abide upon them, And glory and honour shall turn to the holy, 2 On the day of affliction on which evil shall have been treasured up against the sinners. And the righteous shall be victorious in the name of the Lord of Spirits: And He will cause the others to witness (this) That they may repent And forgo the works of their hands. 3 They shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits, Yet through His name shall they be saved, And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them, For His compassion is great. 4 And He is righteous also in His judgement, And in the presence of His glory unrighteousness also shall not maintain itself: At His judgement the unrepentant shall perish before Him. 5 And from henceforth I will have no mercy on them, saith the Lord of Spirits. …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 50, All Verses 1 – 5)

 

 

Hope for the Sinners/Wicked?

 

Focus Phrase from the above: “… And He will cause the others [the sinners and/or Wicked] to witness (this) That they may repent And forgo the works of their hands. 3 They shall have NO HONOUR through the NAME of the LORD of SPIRITS, Yet THROUGH HIS NAME [John 14:6] SHALL THEY BE SAVED [Joel 2:32, Romans 10:13, Matthew 12:21], And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them …” – Book of Enoch.

 

 

 

 

Compare:

Probably by quoting Books such as Enoch did Blessed Ambrosiaster has a similar prophecy echoed toward “unsaved sinners” on “Judgment Day” Repentance and “Non-Elect Salvation” (most likely during or after the Judgment in the Final Gehenna or Lake of Fire), to quote:

Verses: Joel 2:32, Romans 10:13, Isaiah 45:22.

 

“Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.” (Isaiah 45:22, NKJV)

 

” … QUESTION 126. FROM THE ONE WHO RECEIVED THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST. … In fact, the knowledge of God must inspire the fear of the just judge, in whose court he teaches us that the faithful will receive the reward of their righteousness, and the ungodly, that is to say the unbelievers, the just punishment of their infidelity. It is of all justice, indeed, that the good ones be filled with joy in the future life in which Jesus Christ must reign with his chosen ones. They have been exposed to scorn, outrages in this world where the devil reigns, they will appear surrounded by glory in the kingdom of Jesus Christ for which they have borne the contempt of the worldly. SINNERS, on the contrary, who seemed to shine here below a false brilliance, opposing falsehood to truth, have to wait for tribulation and an imaginary glory to succeed for them a contempt, a humiliation too real. The righteous will rejoice in having believed, when they witness the chastisements of the unbelieving, and THE UNFAITHFUL WILL REPENT of THEIR UNBELIEF ONLY when THEY SEE BOTH THEIR OWN CHASTISEMENT and the glory of those WHOSE FAITH THEY HAD REGARDED as an ACT of MADNESS, which was only worthy of their contempt. …” – Blessed Ambrosiaster (literally in Latin: “would-be Ambrose”), Roman Clergy active at Rome during the reign of Pope Damasus (c.366 AD – c. 384 AD)

Source:

 

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/ambrosiaster-questions-on-the-old-and-new-testaments/polemic

 

 

Christ Centered Universalism Hope may actually be Real for All Men even via the Testimony of this ‘Book of 1Enoch’ too. Some Modern Bible Scholars know that even if the Book of 1Enoch is not Canonical for them, its Content especially “Prophecy” (as quoted in Jude 1:14 in the Bible ‘word for word’) would most likely be True. Fascinating Indeed.

 

 

 

 

P/S 1: Who wrote the Book of Enoch and is there a Blessing for keeping it?

 

“… 1 And now, my son Methuselah, all these things I am recounting to thee and writing down for thee! and I have revealed to thee everything, and given thee books concerning all these: so preserve, my son Methuselah, the books from thy father’s hand, and (see) that thou deliver them to the generations of the world. 2 I have given Wisdom to thee and to thy children, [And thy children that shall be to thee], That they may give it to their children for generations, This wisdom (namely) that passeth their thought. 3 And those who understand it shall not sleep, But shall listen with the ear that they may learn this wisdom, And it shall please those that eat thereof better than good food. …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 82, Verses 1 – 3)

 

Example of First Christians who kept it?

 

  1. Epistle of Jude

 

Jude 14 quotes Enoch who as “the seventh from Adam, prophesied,” indicating that the book is true and was written by Enoch himself, and thus its composition was of great antiquity. The citation has been taken by some to mean that Jude accepts it as Scripture.

 

  1. Epistle of Barnabas

 

The Epistle of Barnabas (ca 30 AD – 70 AD), a primer used for teaching new Christian converts in the early church, names and quotes Enoch as “Scripture” and elsewhere cites it as Scripture with the formula “it is written.”[11]

 

iii. Justin Martyr

 

Justin Martyr (110 AD – 165 AD) accepts Enoch as Scripture and in his Second Apology discusses Enoch in depth and uses it to establish doctrine on fallen angels and the origin of demons from angels’ adulteration with women.[12] (In his Dialogue with Trypho, Justin charges that some were removing passages of Scripture that prophetically identified Jesus as the Messiah, from Jeremiah and Isaiah.)[13]

 

 

 

  1. Athenagoras

 

Athenagoras (133 AD – 190 AD) in his Plea for the Christians uses Enoch to establish doctrine about Genesis 6:1-4, grouping it as one of the books of Prophets of the Old Testament: “you know that we say nothing without witnesses, but state the things which have been declared by the prophets.”[14]

 

  1. Irenaeus

 

Irenaeus (d. 202 AD), the famous apologist, accepts Enoch as Scripture and, in Against Heresies, discusses the doctrine that Enoch was God’s legate to fallen angels, which is unique to Enoch,[15] and that a group of fallen angels devised methods of sorcery to adulterate with women.[16] Also in Against Heresies, Book III, 21.2, Irenaeus treats the books of Chronicles and Ezra as a single book written by Ezra. That would reduce the tally of books in the canon from 22 to 21 unless Enoch was included as part of the canon, as Irenaeus does.

 

vi.Clement of Alexandria

 

Clement of Alexandria (ca 150 AD – ca 215 AD) accepts Enoch as Scripture and writes that both Daniel and Enoch taught the same thing regarding the blessing of the faithful (Eclogue 2.1) and that the fallen angels were the source of the black arts (53.4).[17] . See also Clement’s Homilies XI–XVI for great detail used from Enoch.

 

vii. Tertullian

 

Tertullian (155 AD – 222 AD), the founder of Western theological scholarship, in On the Apparel of Women (Book I), names and cites Enoch as “Scripture,” part of “the canon” and “divinely inspired.” He names Enoch as its genuine, human author. He states that its quotation in Jude 14 is an attestation in the New Testament to its authenticity and that “some” had removed it . from the closed canon.[18] In Book II, Tertullian uses Enoch to establish doctrine against the excessive ornamentation of women, attributing its origin to demons who cohabitated with them before the Great Flood.[19] Within his Apologetic, in On Idolatry, he uses Enoch to establish the doctrine that idolatry and astrology originated from demons[20] and that demons are the supernatural issue of fallen angels adulterating with women.[21]

 

 

viii. Commodianus

 

Commodianus (ca 240) accepts Enoch as Scripture and, in his Instructions, uses information unique to Enoch to establish doctrine on the origin of demons from angels adulterating with women and on the wicked arts they taught. Thus, he shows that heathen gods were actually the same demons.[22]

 

  1. Origen

 

Origen (185 AD – 254 AD), in De Principiis, names and quotes Enoch as “Holy Scripture” and notes that the church did not accept the several other books called “Enoch” were at all “divine” (Against Celsus). (However, Enoch is missing in the quotation of a canonical list from Eusebius’s Church History attributed to Origen.)[23]

 

  1. Anatolius

 

Anatolius (early 3rd c AD – July 3, 283 AD) cites Enoch to interpret the ancient Jewish calendar (in a reference to Enoch, Book of Starlight).[24]

 

  1. Cassiodorus

 

Cassiodorus (ca 485 AD – ca 585 AD), authenticates Enoch as Scripture by quoting Jude 14 (“In these words he (Jude) verifies the prophecy”) and that Enoch was inspired and was integral to the Old Testament. In the same Latin translation of comments on the First Epistle of Peter attributed to Clement of Alexandria (ca.150 – 211/216), Cassiodorus also uses Enoch to establish doctrine that fallen angels are apostates from God.[25]

 

Source for this list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reception_of_Enoch_in_antiquity

 

 

 

 

 

P/S 2: Canonicity of the Book of 1Enoch

Note: “… The Book of 1Enoch was considered as scripture in the Epistle of Barnabas (16:4)[26] and by many of the early Church Fathers, such as Athenagoras,[27] Clement of Alexandria,[28] Irenaeus[29] and Tertullian,[30] who wrote c. 200 that the Book of Enoch had been rejected by the Jews because it contained prophecies pertaining to Christ.[31] However, later Fathers denied the canonicity of the book, and some even considered the Epistle of Jude uncanonical because it refers to an “apocryphal” work …”

 

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

The Bible’s Jude 14 is a direct quote by Apostle Jude to this Book of 1Enoch as it is word to word to this only and not even the midrash which has different words.

12“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Revelation 22:12, NKJV)

 

 

 

Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

 

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Greatest Heresy – Promise of His Kingdom without Obedience

 

Possibly the Greatest Heresy of All is Highlighted in Image.

 

Heresy = Faith is not obedience

 

Truth = Faith is Obedience to God because there is no Love even where there is no obedience to God’s Word (John 14:15).

 

Why?

 

0) Deeds of “Lawlessness” (Galatians 5:20 – 22) and sin can cause a Christian even to “not enter His Kingdom of the Heavens” (Matthew 7:20 – 23) and “not inherit the Kingdom of the Heavens” (1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10).

 

Kingdom of the Heavens Definition based on First Christianity via Blessed St. Papias, St. Irenaeous of Lyons who testifies that this Definition was taught by Christ as attested by all the prebysters who were direct disciples of the Blessed Apostles of Christ themselves as follows:

 

Kingdom of Heavens = New Jerusalem City + Paradise + Heavens

 

Reward-Asssociated Definition:

 

Kingdom of Heavens = New Jerusalem City (Thirtyfold) + Paradise (Sixtyfold) + Heavens (Hundredfold)

 

Note: In the Entire Gospels, Christ never once equated ‘believe in Me’ to get ‘hundredfold’ but rather only to be “Saved” where He Himself Declared these three types of ‘Fruit’ hence reward level among the Good Soil to be either yielding “Thirtyfold, Sixtyfold or Hundredfold” according to one’s life which is lived as per the Parable of the Sower (Matthew 13:8).

 

1) We need to “Do His Will” to not be rejected by Him on the Day He Returns (Matthew 7:20 – 23) which is closely tied to Matthew 5:20’s “unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees” regarding His Law, thus “obedience” in Matthew 5:18 – 19, without which one does not get ‘Saved’ to “enter His Kingdom of the Heavens”. Gentile believers need only to obey what God “Commanded” in “Writing” via Blessed St. Paul (1 Corinthians 11:1), the Apostle of the Gentiles (1 Corinthians 14:37) failing to do so may cause such a Christian to be “unrecognized” (1 Corinthians 14:38). Other Examples of this is Acts 21:24 (Jewish believers can follow the Law on some parts) but “Gentile believers” need ‘not’ to follow any such Torah-practices (Acts 21:25), as discussed in Acts 15 too (whole chapter).

If someone says that ‘not all in the early Church had apostle Paul’s letters’, then how about them? Romans 2:14 – 16 applies in principle as ‘your conscience’ will be your judge. However, that does “not” apply to any modern church today because ‘every proper Bible’ in Christianity today contains all of Blessed Apostle Paul’s letters and hence this case does not apply to us. We will be judged by what’s Written in the Gospel (Romans 2:16) Content delivered to Apostle Paul as Verse below Declares:

 

” 14for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.” (Romans 2:14 – 16, NKJV)

In fact any ‘Spirit-Led’ Christians will be able to know that these “Commandments” of God are not only to the Corinthian Church and it applies to all Churches everywhere as these “Bible Verses” Teach as confirmed by First Christianity obeying these Verses too from antiquity:

“For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach everywhere in EVERY CHURCH.” (1 Corinthians 4:17, NKJV)

“33for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. … 36Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only? 37If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. 38But if anyone does NOT RECOGNIZE THIS, he is NOT RECOGNIZED.” (1 Corinthians 14:33, 36 – 38, NASB)

 

“IMITATE ME, just as I also IMITATE CHRIST. … But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.” (1 Corinthians 11:1, 16, NKJV)

 

Doesn’t the phrase ” if anyone does NOT RECOGNIZE THIS, he is NOT RECOGNIZED.” in 1 Corinthians 14:38 by Blessed Apostle Paul regarding the Most Blessed Lord’s Commands which he “Wrote” (which became most of the New Testament today, referring to 1 Corinthians 14:37) sound eerily similar to the Infamous “… I never knew you …” Great Denial mentioned in Matthew 7:23, Luke 13:27 and Matthew 25:12 too?

 

The “Different Gospel” Blessed Apostle St. Paul warned of “Anathema” even in Galatians 1:6 – 10 is in the Context of ‘re-introducing Judaism practices into Gentile Believers’ (Galatians 1:13 – 17) as apostle Paul even corrected apostle Peter in this (Galatians 2:14).

 

2) A Substantial amount of wealth must be shared / given to the poor or needy or charity (Luke 12:33 – 34, Luke 14:33) for ‘Eternal Life Salvation’ inside His Kingdom even, the “oil” of “works” as First Christianity has taught (Matthew 25:1 – 13, James 2:14 – 17, James 2:24).

 

3) Acts of Mercy to the poor or needy or charity for ‘Eternal Life Salvation’ “near” (but outside) His Kingdom even, possibly on earth as the Book of 1Enoch seem to point (Luke 10:25 – 37, Matthew 25:31 – 46, John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2, Galatians 5:14).

 

4) How much of actual “Love of God” we have is based on especially ‘how much of our money/possessions’ we “share/give away” for the need of others throughout our life (Acts 2:44 – 46, Acts 4:32 – 34, 1 John 3:16 – 18, James 2:14 – 18) even toward “Charity” too obtaining “treasures in heaven” (Luke 12:30 – 34) where those who do it Perfectly by “selling all and giving” (Matthew 19:21) or leaving something significant for Christ’s Kingdom Sake (any one or more of the things mentioned in His List in Matthew 19:27 – 30) obtains the highest “Hundredfold Fruit Inheritance Level in His Kingdom” (Matthew 19:29) falling short of which we may still attain to a ‘Thirtyfold or Sixtyfold Level inheritance of Heavens toward believers/Christians only as per Matthew 13:8’.

 

5) More is given, more is required (Luke 12:48) and since God Counts in Percentage-measure and ‘willing/voluntary’ suffering incurred, let’s understand that our giving/works may not be that great at all if say given instead into the hands of a certain poor widow with 2 coins as Christ Revealed (in Luke 21:1 – 4).

 

6) We are not Saved by Works but our Works Determine the Order of Mercy (regarding our Judgment of Sins) and/or our Reward Level as discussed extensively in previous posts with “Bible Verses” and “First Christianity Quotes”. May God Help us be the Best that we can by His Mercy and Grace.

 

7) Prosperity Gospel Danger

 

“1Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! 2Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. 3Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days.” (James 5:1 – 3, NKJV)

 

The Verse above is highlighting the ‘sin of hoarding for oneself to live prosperously’ (which Christ Warned in Luke 12:21) and is independent of ‘other sins of the rich’ as Blessed Apostle St. James writes in James 5:4 – 5 meaning that doing this itself is enough to merit the “eat your flesh like fire” Judgment. Please don’t let it be too late when you realize this Truth in the afterlife following after false hope given by prosperity Gospel preachers against this Bible Verse. They don’t care about you as they only want your money. Stop giving your money there but to say an orphanage and see whether they will be interested in you still?

 

A Haunting Question:

 

Also, if you can be Saved into the ‘Christian Salvation’ without having to worry about each of these Verses, then why should these Verses be Written in the New Testament if they do not affect your Salvation in any way? The phrase “eat your flesh like fire” as judgment for “You have heaped up treasure in the last days” doesn’t sound like just a loss of reward but judgment in the Lake of Fire or Hades now, right? You decide what it means. If you need to Hoard, “Communal Hoarding” may be okay where it benefits other believers or if it supports any form of missionary work as that’s “sharing” as Acts 2:44 – 46 or Acts 4:32 – 34 can mean too.

 

Please read each Bible Verse listed here and let us be wise concerning what is Written in it.

 

“Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.” (Galatians 6:7, NKJV)

 

“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Revelation 22:12, NKJV)

 

Sounds like “difficult” work?

 

It’s exactly why it is Written in Verse below that this Way to Life (First Resurrection, Highest Salvation in His Kingdom of the Heavens, Revelation 20:4 – 6, 1 Thessalonians 4 :13 – 18) is both a “narrow” and “difficult” way which only a “few” will find it; If a Christianity is about prosperity or too easy, please be especially careful of it (Luke 12:21, Luke 14:33, James 5:5, Luke 16:25):

 

“14Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:14, NKJV)

 

Someone said: In Christ’s New Covenant Commands that we hate, our favourite sin is revealed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

False Prophets – Can you really identify them?

 

The first question I often ask myself (to check myself is): ‘… Am I following any false prophets …?’

 

For Example: When I contemplate the Christ Centered Universalism Hope, I realize that I’m emulating say Blessed St. Hilary of Poitiers or even Blessed Sadhu Sundar Singh or more recently as this Hope seems to be even evident to some degree in the Book of 1Enoch itself (obeying Hebrews 13:7) as was discussed in a recent post in link below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159489970167784

 

Contemplating a Hope does not make anyone a false prophet because regardless of even a Judgment Sentence (be it ‘Eternal’ as conditional to ‘no repentance’ even), God can Revoke it by His Choice Alone and thus as a son to the Almighty Father, this is not a heresy but a petition before God.

 

So, are Blessed St. Hilary of Poitiers, Blessed Sadhu Sundar Singh or Book of 1Enoch false prophets?

 

What is a False Prophet then?

 

I prefer not to judge anyone to escape he equivalent judgment back as per Matthew 7:1 – 2. However, as usual, I will quote “First Christianity” View of a “False Prophet” next based on the Didache and let each Christian be Wise enough to decide for themselves.

 

Comment: Both Christ Centered Universalism and Eternal Hell Beief have existed when the Didache was Written but the Didache itself does NOT point to either of these as a ‘false teaching’ meaning that this Topic is not relevant to determining a ‘false prophet’ at all. However, the Didache is very clear about certain practices which are said to be certain of a ‘false prophet’ and I for one would one to avoid that as we shall discuss next.

 

1) What is the Didache and how reliable is it?

 

“… The Didache (lit. “Teaching”),[1] also known as The Lord’s Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations, is a brief anonymous early Christian treatise written in Koine Greek, dated by most modern scholars to the first century.[2] The first line of this treatise is “The teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles (or Nations) by the twelve apostles” … The Didache is considered part of the group of second-generation Christian writings known as the Apostolic Fathers. The work was considered by some Church Fathers to be a part of the New Testament,[6][7][8] while being rejected by others as spurious or non-canonical,[9][10][11] In the end, it was not accepted into the New Testament canon. However, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church “broader canon” includes the Didascalia, a work which draws on the Didache. Lost for centuries, a Greek manuscript of the Didache was rediscovered in 1873 by Philotheos Bryennios, Metropolitan of Nicomedia, in the Codex Hierosolymitanus. A Latin version of the first five chapters was discovered in 1900 by J. Schlecht …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didache

 

Did you notice that it was ‘lost for centuries’ despite many ancient references point to its existence in First Christianity as “Scripture” (Canonical Level) in some earliest Churches? And so, I won’t be taking its content lightly. Perhaps the reason why some reject it may be seen in its ‘strict’ teaching of which those who practice it may not like it.

 

2) Which early Church leaders may have used this?

 

“… Athanasius (367) and Rufinus (c. 380) list the Didache among apocrypha. (Rufinus gives the curious alternative title Judicium Petri, “Judgment of Peter”.) It is rejected by Nicephorus (c. 810), Pseudo-Anastasius, and Pseudo-Athanasius in Synopsis and the 60 Books canon. It is accepted by the Apostolic Constitutions Canon 85, John of Damascus and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. The Adversus Aleatores by an imitator of Cyprian quotes it by name. Unacknowledged citations are very common, if less certain. The section Two Ways shares the same language with the Epistle of Barnabas, chapters 18–20, sometimes word for word, sometimes added to, dislocated, or abridged, and Barnabas iv, 9 either derives from Didache, 16, 2–3, or vice versa. There can also be seen many similarities to the Epistles of both Polycarp and Ignatius of Antioch. The Shepherd of Hermas seems to reflect it, and Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria,[b] and Origen of Alexandria also seem to use the work, and so in the West do Optatus and the “Gesta apud Zenophilum.”[c] The Didascalia Apostolorum are founded upon the Didache. The Apostolic Church-Ordinances has used a part, the Apostolic Constitutions have embodied the Didascalia. There are echoes in Justin Martyr, Tatian, Theophilus of Antioch, Cyprian, and Lactantius. …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didache

 

Comment: The Didache does Teach of ‘afterlife Salvation’ (or what I call as ‘non-Elect Salvation’) till the “last penny” (Matthew 5:26) as Christ Referred to as “Gehenna/Lake of Fire/Hell” Context in Matthew 5:22, to quote:

 

“… Give to every one who asks you, and ask it not back; for the Father wills that to all should be given of our own blessings (free gifts). Happy is he who gives according to the commandment, for he is guiltless. WOE to HIM WHO RECEIVES; for if one receives who has need, he is guiltless; but he who RECEIVES NOT having NEED shall PAY the PENALTY, why he received and for what. And coming into CONFINEMENT, he shall be EXAMINED concerning the THINGS which he HAS DONE, and he shall NOT ESCAPE from THERE until he PAYS back the LAST PENNY. And also concerning this, it has been said, Let your alms sweat in your hands, until you know to whom you should give…” – The Didache, The Lord’s Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations. (1st Century, Chapter 1. The Two Ways and the First Commandment)

Source:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html

 

Another note: The Didache does teach even the ‘Alms atone for the Judgment of your sins concept’

 

“… If you have anything, through your hands you shall give ransom for your sins. …” – The Didache (Chapter 4, in same source above)

 

 

3) Translations of the Didache

 

Example:

 

https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/study/module/didache

 

 

However, in our discussion next regarding ‘Identifying False Prophets’, we will use the translation given in link below unless stated otherwise:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html

 

 

 

 

4) Identification of the Traits of False Prophets

 

  1. i) False Apostles stay for 3 days or more at a place

“… But concerning the apostles and prophets, act according to the decree of the Gospel. Let every apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord. But he shall not remain more than one day; or two days, if there’s a need. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet. …” – The Didache (Chapter 11)

 

  1. ii) False Apostles ask for money

“… And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges. If he asks for money, he is a false prophet. …” – The Didache (Chapter 11)

Compare with these Bible Verses:

 

“And He said to them, “Take nothing for the journey, neither staffs nor bag nor bread nor money; and do not have two tunics apiece.” (Luke 9:3. NKJV)

 

“and He instructed them that they should take nothing for their journey, except a mere staff– no bread, no bag, no money in their belt–” (Mark 6:8, NKJV)

 

iii) Do not comment on a Spirit inside a person lest you may accidentally Commit the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

“… And every prophet who speaks in the Spirit you shall neither try nor judge; for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven. But not every one who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet; but only if he holds the ways of the Lord. Therefore from their ways shall the false prophet and the prophet be known. …” – The Didache (Chapter 11)

Compare:

“28“Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.” (Mark 3:28 – 30, NKJV)

 

Note: Especially protestants need to be careful of this as many of their believers / leaders / pastors ‘easily’ throw words such as that toward those who don’t believe the same as them.

 

 

  1. iv) False Prophets do not Practice what they Preach

 

“… And every prophet who orders a meal in the Spirit does not eat it, unless he is indeed a false prophet. And every prophet who teaches the truth, but does not do what he teaches, is a false prophet. And every prophet, proved true, working unto the mystery of the Church in the world, yet not teaching others to do what he himself does, shall not be judged among you, for with God he has his judgment; for so did also the ancient prophets. …” – The Didache (Chapter 11)

 

  1. v) False Prophets Collect Money/Things for their use while True Prophets may ask you to Give to Charity / Poor / Needy only

 

“… But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him. But if he tells you to give for others’ sake who are in need, let no one judge him. …” – The Didache (Chapter 11)

 

  1. vi) Tithes can “only” be collected by a Prophet who lives by the Rules Written above and not by ‘any pastor’ (ehem, ehem) or alternately, one can give “Tithes directly to the poor”

 

“… But every true prophet who wants to live among you is worthy of his support. So also a true teacher is himself worthy, as the workman, of his support. Every first-fruit, therefore, of the products of wine-press and threshing-floor, of oxen and of sheep, you shall take and give to the prophets, for they are your high priests. But if you have no prophet, give it to the poor. …”- The Didache (Chapter 11)

 

Note: Please notice carefully that ‘tithes’ is not mentioned to be ‘given to the church’ as many churches practice today.

 

vii) True Prophets do NOT teach any ‘pre-tribulation rapture’ but ‘only one Second Coming of the Lord’ which is ‘after the Great Tribulation’ of which those of faith must go through it too and endure to be Saved

 

“… Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord will come. But come together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you are not made perfect in the last time. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; for when lawlessness increases, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, and then shall appear the world-deceiver as Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning. Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial, and many shall be made to stumble and shall perish; but those who endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the signs of the truth: first, the sign of an outspreading in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet. And third, the resurrection of the dead — yet not of all, but as it is said: “The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him.” Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven. …” – The Didache (Chapter 11)

 

The Didache clearly Teaches the “First Resurrection” not of all but Christians only (Revelation 20:4 – 6, 1 Thessalonians 4:16) which happens before ‘rapture’ for those who are alive (1 Thessalonians 4:15, 17) as per the ‘Chiliasm’ Doctrine.

 

For those over-confident modern Christians: Is God Going to Say “… I never knew you …” based on these Teachings of the Didache to us who disobey it or to the First Christians who obeyed all these?

 

Note:

 

How to be a Christian is discussed is Pages 1388 – 1420 & 1437 – 1441, Atonement Mystery in Pages 1493 – 1518 & 1291 – 1331, and The Rapture Theory is discussed in Pages 1421 – 1436, 1442 – 1467 and Preterism & Prophecy on Pages 1474 – 1492 in free downloadable ebook in link below:

 

Click the button above to Download as PDFClick the button above to Download as in Google Book App

 

Chiliasm Doctrine Taught in First Christianity, e.g. St. Justin Martyr said that ‘all those who believed in Christ’ and ‘those of thirty, sixty and hundredfold fruit’ (Matthew 13:8) get Saved during the First Resurrection itself as St. Irenaeous of Lyons and St. Papias together with all direct disciples of the Apostles themselves have taught (as discussed in Pages 1314 – 1315, 1186 – 1188, 1118 – 1132) in free ebook in link above too.

 

Who is the False Prophet then?

 

“… 22MANY will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not PROPHESIED in Your name, … 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ …” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:22 – 23, NKJV)

Please note the word “Many” carefully in last Verses above too.

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A Wrong Marriage could cause you your Salvation

 

 

Question

 

If my wife is complaining that I’m not providing enough, what do I answer her?

 

 

Reply

 

Firstly I believe that a pastor of any church needs to teach any potential Christian couple so that they understand that a True Godly Marriage is about “obeying” each of these Bible Verses (listed next in each point).

 

  1. If you are not providing for your family/household such a faith is worse than an unbeliever (this Truth needs to be taught first to any man who wishes to marry).

 

“8But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” (1 Timothy 5:8, NKJV)

 

So, here too we see that ‘faith alone’ saves no one if not accompanied by the right Biblical Works as in the Context of Marriage.

 

  1. If you’re working and that’s all you can afford, you’re already fulfilling your role sir.

 

  1. The Bible has no Verses regarding fulfilling increasing wants or ‘changing needs’ but rather it Teaches one to be content with whatever Salary they have:

 

“And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.” (1 Timothy 6:8, NKJV)

 

Technically according to the Verse above, if you have “food” and “clothing” (not even house), we are to be content. I understand that it’s easier said than done. That is why we should think about all these before marrying.

 

 

  1. A Biblical Prudent Wife

 

A Biblical prudent wife will not complain of her husband’s lack of providence to meet ‘her earthly standards’ (not Bible Verse standards) and instead will also “work voluntarily” to fulfill household monetary needs instead as per Verses below which defines ‘the True Women of God’:

 

“… 13She seeks wool and flax, And willingly works with her hands. … 16She considers a field and buys it; From her profits she plants a vineyard. 17She girds herself with strength, And strengthens her arms. … 24She makes linen garments and sells them, And supplies sashes for the merchants. … 30Charm is deceitful and beauty is passing, But a woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised. …” (Proverbs 31:13, 16 – 17, 24, 30, NKJV)

 

  1. No authority over husbands

 

The Verse below clearly does NOT give any authority to a woman over her husband even if he is wrong as the phrase “without a word” means:

 

“In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 2as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.” (1 Peter 3:1 – 2, NASB)

 

The same way people say ‘let God Judge pastors as it is not our role to do so’, similarly ‘let God judge the husbands as it is not the role of any wife to correct them’ likewise as per the Verse above.

 

  1. Good Parents Biblically

 

Whose responsibility is it to Save money?

 

“… for children are not responsible to save up for their parents, but parents for their children.” (2 Corinthians 12:14, NASB)

 

That’s why the Bible calls those parents who do so in a ‘rightly earned money’ as ‘good people’, to quote – How much a parent is required to save up for their children? Till it lasts for their “children’s children”:

 

“A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children’s children: …” (Proverbs 13:22, KJV)

 

So are we ‘good parents’ according to the Bible?

 

“A good person leaves an inheritance for their children’s children, …” (Proverbs 13:22, NIV)

 

That’s why it’s best as God’s Will not to marry if we cannot fulfill all these “God’s Perfect Will for responsible marriage”, Verse:

 

“38So then both he who gives his own virgin daughter in marriage does well, and he who does not give her in marriage will do better.” (1 Corinthians 7:38, NASB)

 

Also

 

“Houses and riches are an inheritance from fathers, But a prudent wife is from the LORD.” (Proverbs 19:14, NKJV)

 

Since we never “obeyed God’s Will” by fulfilling the “Houses and riches are an inheritance from fathers,” part, then why blame God for children dying in hunger and praise that mother or society or culture which brought that child to suffer in this world in the first place?

 

My point is simple: We cannot blame God unless if we fulfilled His Word and then still calamities happen and also if we should blame somebody, we should blame our “own selfish desires” (to have ‘family’ or ‘for our kids to make us rich or take care of us when old without providing any riches for them to do so first’, etc. as per the Bible Verse quoted etc. etc). Yes, that’s how such classic atheistic arguments hold no water when analyzed “rationally”.

 

This post is not to blame parents or to cause fights but rather to demonstrate how we as human beings create our own problems by our own selfish ways without obedience to God which could have easily solved the problem. Truly,

 

“obedience is better than sacrifice” (1 Samuel 15:22) even in this Verse in Proverbs 19:14 above.

 

If anyone fails in these, sadly the Verse below (in image too) can imply a loss of Salvation :

 

“But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” (1 Timothy 5:8, NKJV)

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Prosperity Gospel – Head on Earth and not the Tail

 

Question

 

Didn’t God Promise to make true believers the head and not the tail as per Deuteronomy 28:13? (Verse in image too)

 

 

 

Reply

 

This is one of the greatest misunderstood set of Verses which false teachers have exploited for their gain and to kind of ‘show proof’ that they are chosen by God by flashing some of ‘your money’. I say, “your money” because they got it from collecting in the Name of God from people like you instead of like Abraham and Job who worked as farmers and earned it.

 

In this life (i.e. ‘under the sun’) there is no such guarantee as God has put “time and chance” to determine our fortunes as per the Verse below:

 

“I returned and saw under the sun that— The race is not to the swift, Nor the battle to the strong, Nor bread to the wise, Nor riches to men of understanding, Nor favor to men of skill; But time and chance happen to them all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:11, NKJV)

 

Truth is, Deuteronomy 28:13 has nothing to do with a Promise in this life but is a Promise of Inheritance in the “Age to Come” (‘Olam Ha’ba’), that is in the Messianic Kingdom of Christ after the First Resurrection onward (Revelation 20:4 – 6). To earn a place there, one has to be super kind, super sharing etc. (Luke 12:21, Luke 14:33, Matthew 19:21, Luke 12:33 – 34, Matthew 19:27 – 30, Acts 2:44 – 46, Acts 4:32 – 34). The Logic is that to ‘Gain there, you must let go of as much of your earthly life / money here’ (Matthew 6:19, Luke 12:34, Matthew 16:25, Luke 12:21).

 

Please take note that I’m not stating ‘my opinion’ but just obeying what these Great First Christianity “true” Men of God taught likewise:

 

1) Times of the Kingdom = First Resurrection & the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ (Revelation 20:4 – 6)

 

“… 1. For this reason, when about to undergo His sufferings, that He might declare to Abraham and those with him the glad tidings of the inheritance being thrown open, [Christ], after He had given thanks while holding the cup, and had drunk of it, and given it to the disciples, said to them: “Drink ye all of it: this is My blood of the new covenant, which shall be shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of the fruit of this vine, until that day when I will drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” Thus, then, He will Himself renew the inheritance of the earth, and will re-organize the mystery of the glory of [His] sons; as David says, “He who hath renewed the face of the earth.” He promised to drink of the fruit of the vine with His disciples, thus indicating both these points: the inheritance of the earth in which the new fruit of the vine is drunk, and the resurrection of His disciples in the flesh. For the new flesh which rises again is the same which also received the new cup. And He cannot by any means be understood as drinking of the fruit of the vine when settled down with his [disciples] above in a super-celestial place; nor, again, are they who drink it devoid of flesh, for to drink of that which flows from the vine pertains to flesh, and not spirit.

 

  1. And for this reason the Lord declared, “When thou makest a dinner or a supper, do not call thy friends, nor thy neighbours, nor thy kinsfolk, lest they ask thee in return, and so repay thee. But call the lame, the blind, and the poor, and thou shall be blessed, since they cannot recompense thee, but a recompense shall be made thee at the resurrection of the just.” And again He says, “Whosoever shall have left lands, or houses, or parents, or brethren, or children because of Me, he shall receive in this world an hundred-fold, and in that to come he shall inherit eternal life.” For what are the hundred-fold [rewards] in this word, the entertainments given to the poor, and the suppers for which a return is made? These are [to take place] in the times of the kingdom, that is, upon the seventh day, which has been sanctified, in which God rested from all the works which He created, which is the true Sabbath of the righteous, which they shall not be engaged in any earthly occupation; but shall have a table at hand prepared for them by God, supplying them with all sorts of dishes.

 

 

  1. The blessing of Isaac with which he blessed his younger son Jacob has the same meaning, when he says, “Behold, the smell of my son is as the smell of a full field which the Lord has blessed.” But “the field is the world.” And therefore he added, “God give to thee of the dew of heaven, and of the fatness of the earth, plenty of corn and wine. And let the nations serve thee, and kings bow down to thee; and be thou lord over thy brother, and thy father’s sons shall bow down to thee: cursed shall be he who shall curse thee, and blessed shall be he who shall bless thee.” If any one, then, does not accept these things as referring to the appointed kingdom, he must fall into much contradiction and contrariety, as is the case with the Jews, who are involved in absolute perplexity. For not only did not the nations in this life serve this Jacob; but even after he had received the blessing, he himself going forth [from his home], served his uncle Laban the Syrian for twenty years; and not only was he not made lord of his brother, but he did himself bow down before his brother Esau, upon his return from Mesopotamia to his father, and offered many gifts to him. Moreover, in what way did he inherit much corn and wine here, he who emigrated to Egypt because of the famine which possessed the land in which he was dwelling, and became Subject to Pharaoh, who was then ruling over Egypt? The predicted blessing, therefore, belongs unquestionably to the times of the kingdom, when the righteous shall bear rule upon their rising from the dead; when also the creation, having been renovated and set free, shall fructify with an abundance of all kinds of food, from the dew of heaven, and from the fertility of the earth: as the elders who saw John, the disciple of the Lord, related that they had heard from him how the Lord used to teach in regard to these times, and say: The days will come, in which vines shall grow, each having ten thousand branches, and in each branch ten thousand twigs, and in each true twig ten thousand shoots, and in each one of the shoots ten thousand dusters, and on every one of the clusters ten thousand grapes, and every grape when pressed will give five and twenty metretes of wine. And when any one of the saints shall lay hold of a cluster, another shall cry out, “I am a better cluster, take me; bless the Lord through me.” In like manner [the Lord declared] that a grain of wheat would produce ten thousand ears, and that every ear should have ten thousand grains, and every grain would yield ten pounds (quinque bilibres) of clear, pure, fine flour; and that all other fruit-bearing trees, and seeds and grass, would produce in similar proportions (secundum congruentiam iis consequentem); and that all animals feeding [only] on the productions of the earth, should [in those days] become peaceful and harmonious among each other, and be in perfect subjection to man.

 

  1. And these things are bone witness to in writing by Papias, the hearer of John, and a companion of Polycarp, in his fourth book; for there were five books compiled (suntetagme/na) by him. And he says in addition, “Now these things are credible to believers.” And he says that, “when the traitor Judas did not give credit to them, and put the question, `How then can things about to bring forth so abundantly be wrought by the Lord? ‘the Lord declared, `They who shall come to these [times] shall see.'” When prophesying of these times, therefore, Esaias says: “The wolf also shall feed with the lamb, and the leopard shall take his rest with the kid; the calf also, and the bull, and the lion shall eat together; and a little boy shall lead them. The ox and the bear shall feed together, and their young ones shall agree together; and the lion shall eat straw as well as the ox. And the infant boy shall thrust his hand into the asp’s den, into the nest also of the adder’s brood; and they shall do no harm, nor have power to hurt anything in my holy mountain.” And again he says, in recapitulation, “Wolves and lambs shall then browse together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and the serpent earth as if it were bread; and they shall neither hurt nor annoy anything in my holy mountain, saith the Lord.” I am quite aware that some persons endeavour to refer these words to the case of savage men, both of different nations and various habits, who come to believe, and when they have believed, act in harmony with the righteous. But although this is [true] now with regard to some men coming from various nations to the harmony of the faith, nevertheless in the resurrection of the just [the words shall also apply] to those animals mentioned. For God is non in all things. And it is right that when the creation is restored, all the animals should obey and be in subjection to man, and revert to the food originally given by God (for they had been originally subjected in obedience to Adam), that is, the productions of the earth. But some other occasion, and not the present, is [to be sought] for showing that the lion shall [then] feed on straw. And this indicates the large size and rich quality of the fruits. For if that animal, the lion, feeds upon straw [at that period], of what a quality must the wheat itself be whose straw shall serve as suitable food for lions? …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XXXIII, Points 1 – 4)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

 

Example Focus Quote from the above [and please note the phrase “times of the kingdom” or “appointed kingdom” as Blessed St. Irenaeous refers to the Chiliast position of the Millennial Reign when he mentions these]:

 

“… cursed shall be he who shall curse thee, and blessed shall be he who shall bless thee.” If any one, then, does not accept these things as referring to the appointed kingdom, he must fall into much contradiction and contrariety, as is the case with the Jews, who are involved in absolute perplexity. For not only did not the nations in this life serve this Jacob; but even after he had received the blessing, he himself going forth [from his home], served his uncle Laban the Syrian for twenty years; and not only was he not made lord of his brother, but he did himself bow down before his brother Esau, upon his return from Mesopotamia to his father, and offered many gifts to him. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons

 

Who doubted that this is a right interpretation of these Abrahamic Promises?

“… 4. And these things are bone witness to in writing by Papias, the hearer of John, and a companion of Polycarp, in his fourth book; for there were five books compiled (suntetagme/na) by him. And he says in addition, “Now these things are credible to believers.” And he says that, “when the traitor Judas did not give credit to them, and put the question, `How then can things about to bring forth so abundantly be wrought by the Lord? ‘the Lord declared, `They who shall come to these [times] shall see.'” …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons

So, let us not have the ‘faith of Judas’ in denying these things, can you see it?

 

2) Book of 1Enoch agrees Perfectly

 

  1. i) The Wicked usually Prosper on Earth now

 

“… 5 Woe to you, ye sinners, when ye have died, If ye die in the wealth of your sins, And those who are like you say regarding you: ‘ Blessed are the sinners: they have seen all their days. 6 And how they have died in prosperity and in wealth, And have not seen tribulation or murder in their life; And they have died in honour, And judgement has not been executed on them during their life.” 7 Know ye, that their souls will be made to descend into Sheol And they shall be wretched in their great tribulation. 8 And into darkness and chains and a burning flame where there is grievous judgement shall your spirits enter; And the great judgement shall be for all the generations of the world. Woe to you, for ye shall have no peace. …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 103, Verses 5 – 8)

 

Source: http://wesley.nnu.edu/index.php?id=2126

 

Compare:

 

“3For I was envious of the boastful, When I saw the prosperity of the wicked. 4For there are no pangs in their death, But their strength is firm. 5They are not in trouble as other men, Nor are they plagued like other men. … 7Their eyes bulge with abundance; They have more than heart could wish. … 12Behold, these are the ungodly, Who are always at ease; They increase in riches. … 16When I thought how to understand this, It was too painful for me— 17Until I went into the sanctuary of God; Then I understood their end. 18Surely You set them in slippery places;

You cast them down to destruction. 19Oh, how they are brought to desolation, as in a moment! They are utterly consumed with terrors. …” (Psalm 73:3 – 5, 7, 12, 16 – 19, NKJV)

 

  1. ii) The Righteous usually Perish on Earth now

 

“… [Chapter 103] … 9 Say not in regard to the righteous and good who are in life: ” In our troubled days we have toiled laboriously and experienced every trouble, And met with much evil and been consumed, And have become few and our spirit small. 10 And we have been destroyed and have not found any to help us even with a word: We have been tortured [and destroyed], and not hoped to see life from day to day. 11 We hoped to be the head and have become the tail: We have toiled laboriously and had no satisfaction in our toil; And we have become the food of the sinners and the unrighteous, And they have laid their yoke heavily upon us. 12 They have had dominion over us that hated us and smote us; And to those that hated us we have bowed our necks But they pitied us not. 13 We desired to get away from them that we might escape and be at rest, But found no place whereunto we should flee and be safe from them. 14 And are complained to the rulers in our tribulation, And cried out against those who devoured us, But they did not attend to our cries And would not hearken to our voice. 15 And they helped those who robbed us and devoured us and those who made us few; and they concealed their oppression, and they did not remove from us the yoke of those that devoured us and dispersed us and murdered us, and they concealed their murder, and remembered not that they had lifted up their hands against us. [Chapter 104] 1 I swear unto you, that in heaven the angels remember you for good before the glory of the Great 2 One: and your names are written before the glory of the Great One. Be hopeful; for aforetime ye were put to shame through ill and affliction; but now ye shall shine as the lights of heaven, 3 ye shall shine and ye shall be seen, and the portals of heaven shall be opened to you. …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 103 Verses 9 – 15, Chapter 104 Verse 1)

 

Source: http://wesley.nnu.edu/index.php?id=2126

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blessed Florence Nightingale – The Lady with the Lamp

 

She was born on 12 May.

 

 

1) Ever wondered who is the Founder of Modern Nursing? (it’s not a man)

“… Florence Nightingale /ˈnaɪtɪnɡeɪl/, OM, RRC, DStJ (12 May 1820 – 13 August 1910) was a British social reformer and statistician, and the founder of modern nursing. …”

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Nightingale

 

Note: Each subsequent quote about her is from this same Wikipedia Source unless specified otherwise.

 

2) Why is she called the “Lady with the Lamp”?

 

“… She gave nursing a favourable reputation and became an icon of Victorian culture, especially in the persona of “The Lady with the Lamp” making rounds of wounded soldiers at night …”

 

3) Did she hear from God to become her nurse? Yes, she admitted it:

 

“… Nightingale underwent the first of several experiences that she believed were calls from God in February 1837 while at Embley Park, prompting a strong desire to devote her life to the service of others. In her youth she was respectful of her family’s opposition to her working as a nurse, only announcing her decision to enter the field in 1844. Despite the intense anger and distress of her mother and sister, she rebelled against the expected role for a woman of her status to become a wife and mother. Nightingale worked hard to educate herself in the art and science of nursing, in the face of opposition from her family and the restrictive social code for affluent young English women …”

 

And

“… At Thebes, she wrote of being “called to God”, while a week later near Cairo she wrote in her diary (as distinct from her far longer letters that her elder sister Parthenope was to print after her return): “God called me in the morning and asked me would I do good for him alone without reputation.”[16] Later in 1850, she visited the Lutheran religious community at Kaiserswerth-am-Rhein in Germany, where she observed Pastor Theodor Fliedner and the deaconesses working for the sick and the deprived. …”

 

4) Did she give up marriage for Service?

 

“… As a young woman, Nightingale was described as attractive, slender and graceful. While her demeanour was often severe, she was said to be very charming and to possess a radiant smile. Her most persistent suitor was the politician and poet Richard Monckton Milnes, but after a nine-year courtship she rejected him, convinced that marriage would interfere with her ability to follow her calling to nursing. …”

 

5) How did she Finance her life of service to others for free without being employed?

 

“… Her father had given her an annual income of £500 (roughly £40,000/US$65,000 in present terms), which allowed her to live comfortably and to pursue her career. …”

 

6) How did she die?

 

“… Florence Nightingale died peacefully in her sleep in her room at 10 South Street, Mayfair, London, on 13 August 1910, at the age of 90 …”

 

7) Was she a Math Genius too?

 

“… Florence Nightingale exhibited a gift for mathematics from an early age and excelled in the subject under the tutelage of her father.[d] Later, Nightingale became a pioneer in the visual presentation of information and statistical graphics.[64] She used methods such as the pie chart, which had first been developed by William Playfair in 1801. While taken for granted now, it was at the time a relatively novel method of presenting data.[65] Indeed, Nightingale is described as “a true pioneer in the graphical representation of statistics”, and is credited with developing a form of the pie chart now known as the polar area diagram,[65](p107) or occasionally the Nightingale rose diagram, equivalent to a modern circular histogram, to illustrate seasonal sources of patient mortality in the military field hospital she managed. …”

 

Conclusion – Was she a Christian?

 

Yes, a believer in the Hope of “Christ Centered Universalism”:

 

“… Despite being named as a Unitarian in several older sources, Nightingale’s own rare references to conventional Unitarianism are mildly negative. She remained in the Church of England throughout her life, albeit with unorthodox views. Influenced from an early age by the Wesleyan tradition,[f] Nightingale felt that genuine religion should manifest in active care and love for others.[g] She wrote a work of theology: Suggestions for Thought, her own theodicy, which develops her heterodox ideas. Nightingale questioned the goodness of a God who would condemn souls to hell, and was a believer in universal reconciliation – the concept that even those who die without being saved will eventually make it to Heaven.[h] She would sometimes comfort those in her care with this view. For example, a dying young prostitute being tended by Nightingale was concerned she was going to hell, and said to her “Pray God, that you may never be in the despair I am in at this time”. The nurse replied “Oh, my girl, are you not now more merciful than the God you think you are going to? Yet the real God is far more merciful than any human creature ever was or can ever imagine.” …”

If I had to put a phrase to her life and legacy:

 

‘… Heroes don’t die, they live on with Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ … ‘

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Heart – Atonement for Judgment and Heavenly Treasures Mystery

 

Self Analysis – What did Christ Himself Say about where our Heart is?

 

” 31But seek the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added to you. 32“Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 33Sell what you have and give alms; provide yourselves money bags which do not grow old, a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches nor moth destroys. 34For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:31 – 34, NKJV)

 

“19“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 6:19 – 21, NKJV)

Conclusion

 

I do not see anywhere is Scripture itself where the phrase “… where your treasure is, there your heart will be also …” is found and curiously, both these cases are linked to either ‘hoarding money on earth for oneself’ (Luke 12:21) vs ‘… 33Sell what you have and give alms (charity) …’ (Luke 12:33). Perhaps there are only two kinds of people based on ‘… where our heart is …’ and Christ Himself “only” Speaks of the ‘Money Aspect’ to Determine that.

 

“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 6:24, NKJV)

 

It’s not a misinterpretation of these Verses as Christ Himself proves this Context in Verses below regarding the Truth that ‘the way we spend our money on earth’ (crudely put) determines whether or not we ‘Serve God or Mammon’ and that’s the only factor God Tests for “faithfulness” to eventually “commit to your trust the true riches” of His Kingdom as Verses below clearly demonstrate too (please read ‘carefully’):

” 11Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? 12And if you have not been faithful in what is another man’s, who will give you what is your own? 13“No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:11 – 13, NKJV)

 

 

I guess these out of Bible quotes may ring true based on these Verses:

 

‘ …. People can fake anything except fake loving money or not …’

 

‘… Where we spend our money speaks exactly what is most Important to us …’

 

‘… You can only know a true character of a person not when he has no money but when he has a lot of money …’ -Mr. Alvin Raj

 

Real Life Example: Blessed Florence Nightingale

 

“… Her father had given her an annual income of £500 (roughly £40,000/US$65,000 in present terms), which allowed her to live comfortably and to pursue her career. …”

 

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Nightingale

 

Here is something to think about based on the above:

 

So, though she didn’t give away all her wealth to the poor, she used it to finance herself to do ‘free’ nursing service toward mankind in her locality earning the title ‘Founder of Modern Nursing’ eventually. She was not interested in titles nor recognition but the work of serving only as she wrote “… “God called me in the morning and asked me would I do good for Him alone without reputation.” …” (quote from same source above).

 

Different people serve God in different ways but I like her way. Why? Because she only used the wealth from her father (which is duly hers too in time) and did not take donation money (which is a good way too) hence this is ‘way better’ & as First Christianity has taught (e.g. Verses below), as the reward of her using her money wisely like this does not just affect her but also her deceased father/mother or even possibly brothers/sisters as each have a claim on such a ‘common inheritance’ proving her as a ‘Perfect Daughter’ yet again in this aspect too:

 

“41All men therefore praising the Lord, the righteous Judge, who had opened the things that were hid, 42Betook themselves unto prayer, and besought him that the sin committed might wholly be put out of remembrance. Besides, that noble Judas [Maccabees] exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forsomuch as they saw before their eyes the things that came to pass for the sins of those that were slain. 43And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachms of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: 44For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead. 45And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.” (2 Maccabees 12:41 – 45, the Original King James Bible)

 

Source: https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/2-Maccabees-Chapter-12/

 

Note: In Verses above, Blessed Maccabees does the ‘charity works of money’ [ “… sum of two thousand drachms of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, …”] on behalf of ‘the dead’ [“… he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, …”]. Such an Atonement on behalf of ‘Judgment of Sins’ toward others was done even by the Blessed Patriarch Job himself as he did ‘on behalf of the sins of his children’ (Verses next) and is discussed further in post in link below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159475188882784:0

 

or Pages 1493 – 1598 in free downloadable ebook in link below:

 

 

Click the button above to Download as PDFClick the button above to Download as in Google Book App

  1. i) Blessed Patriarch Job offers Sacrifice against the ‘Judgment of Sin by his Children’

 

“So it was, when the days of feasting had run their course, that Job would send and sanctify them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, “It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus Job did regularly.” (Job 1:5, NKJV)

 

  1. ii) Blessed Patriarch Job offers Sacrifice against the ‘Judgment of Sin by his friends’ [where ‘ God Himself Institutes this Practice of “on behalf” ‘]

 

“Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to your folly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.” (Job 42:8, NKJV)

 

Hence this is certainly greater than spending it for ‘herself and those who love her only (like potential future family which is the usual alternate path) of which Christ Says there’s possibly little or ‘no reward’ as Verses below Mysteriously Echoes:

“32“But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. … 35But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:32 – 33, 35, NKJV)

Please notice that the highest credit seems to be when our efforts serves ‘our enemies’ too and when we ‘hope for nothing in return’ (on Earth, e.g. against the usual Prosperity Gospel error of ‘give so God will over abundantly give to you on earth till you cannot bear it’ etc.) as Christ Nullifies such ‘Old Testament’ Verses such as “Test Me in this…” (Malachi 3:10) Verse seems to Imply.

 

Serving one’s own family or same religion or same race or same creed or same status level etc. may not be the greatest serving as these involve serving ‘those who love us back’ as Christ’s Beautiful Question in Luke 6:33 Resounds as follows: ‘… 33And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? …’.

Christ Replaces that ‘earthly blessing’ (e.g. previously of Malachi 3:10 by cancelling it first since He Says ‘hope nothing on earth’ in Luke 6:35) with a ‘heavenly one’ as the previous Verses show (Matthew 6:19 – 21, Luke 12:33 -34). Interesting indeed. Last but not least,  if someone says that he is not interested in Heaven or Heavenly Treasures but is just truly hoping “Zero” for all the good he does, tell him that may his wish be fulfilled on that Day where if he does NOT get into Heaven NOR get any Heavenly Treasures, he cannot complain because ‘that’s what he asked & thus must be true to his claim unless he is just putting a false righteousness so that he looks great’. God cannot be Deceived.

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Saved vs Kingdom of the Heavens Mystery

 

 

  1. Non-Elect Salvation

 

This Topic is discussed for example with the “Lake of Fire” from Page 1519 in free downloadable e-book in link below:

 

 

Click the button above to Download as PDFClick the button above to Download as in Google Book App

 

 

  1. How can there be a non-Elect Salvation toward those without faith in Christ?

 

“14for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.” (Romans 2:14 – 16, NKJV)

 

Please note ‘carefully’ that Romans 2:14 – 16 clearly proves that ‘those who did not have the Gospel of Christ’ but ‘lived in a certain Way according to their conscience’ may be “Saved” on Judgment Day. If no one is ever Saved without believing in Christ, the Verses in Romans 2:14 – 16 need not be written, right? (please think ‘carefully’ about this – thus it implies that there must be different orders of Salvation according to one’s faith and works but Christ’s Faith Alone is sufficient to Save anyone but in different times):

“1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for ALL MEN; … 4Who will have ALL MEN to be SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. … 6Who gave himself a RANSOM for ALL, to be testified in DUE TIME[s]. 7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.” (1 Timothy 2:1, 4, 6 – 7, KJV)

 

If we take the ‘all men’ in these Verses to include the ones in Romans 2:14 – 16, there are no contradictions and thus the ‘all men’ can truly mean ‘all men’ in these Verses literally.

So, these are ‘saved without ever believing in Christ’ meaning that the “Imputation of His Righteousness freely” by “His Faith, i.e. the Faith of Jesus Christ Alone” which makes this non-Elect Salvation Type possible as it is discussed in page 1306 onward in the free book in link above. In the same manner, the other types of non-Elect Salvation may obtain a Salvation in an appropriate region/state according to their works as discussed on page 1225 onward in that same book.

 

Based on this, we can infer that being Saved does not necessarily mean an Entrance into His Kingdom of the Heavens as the Example Verse below seems to indicate that they are those saved whose abode is on the new earth (as the ‘new earth’ is outside the Kingdom of the Heavens’):

 

“Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth.” (Matthew 5:5, NKJV)

 

The definition of the Kingdom of the Heavens may be more complex than casually understood as per the quote below:

 

“A fragment from the early 2nd century of one of the lost volumes of Papias, a Christian bishop, expounds that “heaven” was separated into three distinct layers. He referred to the first as just “heaven”, the second as “paradise”, and the third as “the city”. Papias taught that “there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce a hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold”. In the 2nd century AD, Irenaeus (a Greek bishop) wrote that not all who are saved would merit an abode in heaven itself.”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_in_Christianity

 

Kingdom of the Heavens = New Jerusalem City (thirtyfold fruit) + Paradise (sixtyfold fruit) + Heavens (hundredfold fruit)

 

  1. Kingdom of Heaven – Internal

 

Kingdom of Heaven within you “now” is true. True believers experience the Kingdom of Heaven within them now on earth itself being spiritually connected to it:

 

“20Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Matthew 7:20 – 21, NKJV)

 

Note: The answer that ” the kingdom of God is within you” is given to the question of “when” and hence it means that one can begin to experience the kingdom of God within them spiritually already if they believe.

 

  1. Kingdom of Heaven – External

 

However the Kingdom of Heaven being external on that “Day” is also true as Matthew 7:20 – 23 talks about ‘entering it’ which relates to the ‘Messianic Reign of Christ for 1000 years first’ (Revelation 20:4 – 6) of which many will ‘not enter’ (Matthew 8:11 – 12).

 

“10When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! 11And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 8:10 – 12, NKJV)

 

To attain to the ‘Kingdom of Heavens’ Salvation, one has to be a believer in Christ and this is discussed further in link below with Bible Verses and First Christianity quotes:

 

https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/kingdom-of-god-mystery/amp

 

  1. What to do to ‘Enter Heaven’ beyond believing in Him calling Him “Lord, Lord” (Luke 6:46)?

 

  1. Beyond keeping away from ‘lawlessness’ one needs to Keep His Sayings too

 

“14Because narrow is the gate and [d]difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. … 21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ 24“Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: ” (Matthew 7:14, 21 – 24, NKJV)

 

“37If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. 38But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.” (1 Corinthians 14:37 – 38, NASB)

 

 

 

  1. Entering the Kingdom of Heaven is closely related to how one spends one’s Money too

 

“23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:23 – 24, NKJV)

 

If ‘entering the Kingdom of Heaven’ has nothing to do with the “work” of ‘what you do with your riches/money’, then the Verse above has no meaning. In fact, please notice the word “hard” and if God Says it’s “hard” but possible, I would take an extra attention to ‘money related Verses and what Christ Himself Commanded to Do’ (e.g. Luke 12:21, Matthew 6:19 – 21, Luke 12:33 – 34, Jame 5:5, Luke 16:25, Matthew 19:21, Matthew 19:27 – 30, Acts 2:44 – 46, Acts 4:32 – 34, Galatians 6:2) – can you see it?

 

iii. A Christian’s righteousness (as Christ Says “your righteousness” not His) must exceed a certain level of observance of His Commands as the Context in Verses below is ‘all Law and Prophets’ inclusive of believing in Him first

 

“17“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one ot or one [c]tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:17 – 20, NKJV)

 

Example: The Gentile believers do not need to observe all the Law of Moses to be Saved (Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5) but still this First Apostolic Council in Jerusalem did approve some “works” of the Law as a must for Salvation such as “… 28For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. …” (Acts 15:28 – 29, NKJV) – Can you see it?

 

Indeed, an Ancient Church was having ” love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. etc.” (please read the Verses below ‘carefully’) but still some among them were “unsaved” due to disobeying the essential Command in Acts 15:28 – 29 above & Christ Doesn’t Add further for ‘Salvation’ as His Phrase “… I will put on you no other burden …” means in the end as it is Described as follows (in full):

 

“19“I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, [m]to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works. 24“Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Revelation 2:19 – 23, NKJV)

 

Comment: Please note that apart from 1 Corinthians 14:37 – 38, each of the Verses here all contain the phrase “enter the Kingdom of Heaven” (Context) and are by our “Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ Himself” and so please don’t be deceived by men who claim otherwise against ‘what these Verses Say’.

Conclusion

Please note carefully that only those who “Do His Commandments” (beyond believing) enter into the ‘New Jerusalem City’ onward, Verses:

“12“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” 14Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. 16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” (Revelation 22:12 – 16, NKJV)

Please believe in Christ and Obey His Commands Found in the Bible Verses to not ‘miss’ heaven!

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Burdens and Giving Mystery

 

 

 

As the quote in image rings, “our burdens” includes ‘our personal burdens + the mandatory family burdens for those having family’ (as 1 Timothy 5:8 denies Salvation even if one does not fulfill it). Here is that Verse:

 

 

“But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” (1 Timothy 5:8, NKJV)

 

It’s those who go ‘further’ and fulfill ‘other’s burdens’ (e. g. friends, strangers, enemies) who get to fulfill the Mysterious “Law of Christ” more “Perfectly” as Verse below Echoes:

 

“Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.” (Galatians 6:2, NKJV)

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion

 

1) Give to the Right Person

 

As much as possible ‘let your alms sweat in your hands’ till you find the right person (who is truly suffering) to help instead of those who are ‘using you whilst they don’t share theirs when they have been better shows’ (selfish persons):

 

“… The way of life, then, is this: … And of these sayings the teaching is this: Bless those who curse you, and pray for your enemies, and fast for those who persecute you. For what reward is there for loving those who love you? Do not the Gentiles do the same? But love those who hate you, and you shall not have an enemy…… Give to every one who asks you, and ask it not back; for the Father wills that to all should be given of our own blessings (free gifts). Happy is he who gives according to the commandment, for he is guiltless. WOE to HIM WHO RECEIVES; for if one receives who has need, he is guiltless; but he who RECEIVES NOT having NEED shall PAY the PENALTY, why he received and for what. And coming into CONFINEMENT, he shall be EXAMINED concerning the THINGS which he HAS DONE, and he shall NOT ESCAPE from THERE until he PAYS back the LAST PENNY. And also concerning this, it has been said, Let your alms sweat in your hands, until you know to whom you should give…” – The Didache, The Lord’s Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations. (1st Century, Chapter 1. The Two Ways and the First Commandment)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html

 

2) What if you gave to the Wrong Person?

 

“Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:30, NKJV)

 

Please note the phrase “Give to EVERYONE who asks of you” as Christ Commands (that is Perfection Level of which we all fall short but that’s what His Will is in this area).

 

So, it does not matter if ‘you gave to the ‘wrong person/ manipulative conman / scammer / etc.’ according to the Verse above as this is further explained below:

 

 

“ … 1[27]:4 But clothe thyself in reverence, wherein is no evil stumbling-block, but all things are smooth and gladsome. Work that which is good, and of thy labors, which God giveth thee, give to all that are in want freely, not questioning to whom thou shalt give, and to whom thou shalt not give. Give to all; for to all God desireth that there should be given of His own bounties. 1[27]:5 They then that receive shall render an account to God why they received it, and to what end; for they that receive in distress shall not be judged, but they that receive by false pretence shall pay the penalty. 1[27]:6 He then that giveth is guiltless; for as he received from the Lord the ministration to perform it, he hath performed it in sincerity, by making no distinction to whom to give or not to give. This ministration then, when sincerely performed, becomes glorious in the sight of God. He therefore that ministereth thus sincerely shall live unto God. …” – Shepherd of Hermas (Mandate 2)

 

Source:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd-lightfoot.html

 

Please note the ‘Promise’ to ‘such Givers’ who Practice to this Level “.. he hath performed it in sincerity, by making no distinction to whom to give or not to give. …” attains to this Reward which is “… He therefore that ministereth thus sincerely shall live unto God …”.

 

Summary

 

All Givers will get the reward for their giving on Reason of Love or Good Intention regardless some in this life or some in the afterlife or some in some proportion of both realms.

 

 

3) Giving helps you too toward ‘Judgment of one’s Sins’

 

“7 It’s a good idea to keep a king’s secret, but what God does should be told everywhere, so that he may be praised and honored. If you do good, no harm will come to you.8 It is better to pray sincerely and to please God by helping the poor than to be rich and dishonest. It is better to give to the poor than to store up gold. 9 Such generosity will save you from death and will wash away all your sins. … 15 I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand in the glorious presence of the Lord, ready to serve him.” (Good News Translation, Tobit 12:7 – 9, 15)

Source: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Tobit+12&version=GNT

 

4) True Bishops of the Church Practice this Helping the Needy/Poor/Widows in Leadership by Example

 

“… 27[104]:2 bishops, hospitable persons, who gladly received into their houses at all times the servants of God without hypocrisy. [These bishops] at all times without ceasing sheltered the needy and the widows in their ministration and conducted themselves in purity at all times. 27[104]:3 These [all] then shall be sheltered by the Lord for ever. They therefore that have done these things are glorious in the sight of God, and their place is even now with the angels, if they shall continue unto the end serving the Lord. …” – Shepherd of Hermas (Parable 9)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd-lightfoot.html

 

Warning: If we are thinking that we have given much, please remember the ‘poor widow with two coins incident’ whom Christ Spoke Greatly of, in Verses below:

 

Yes, let us Remember that God doesn’t count by the Result or Amount of people you affected by the Giving but only the Disposition of your Will in your heart in Love (1 Corinthians 13:3) even as the Two Coins you give can be greater than all, hence a greater reward due to Percentage Count too (Fairness and Equality toward All in such a Divine Wisdom of God to Decide so), to quote “Bible Verses” agreeing to the Earlier First Christianity Quotes:

 

 

“1And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury. 2And He saw a poor widow putting in two small copper coins. 3And He [Lord Jesus Christ Himself] said, “TRULY I say to you, this poor widow put in MORE than ALL of THEM; 4for they all out of THEIR SURPLUS put into the OFFERING; but she out of her POVERTY put in ALL that she had to LIVE ON.” (Luke 21:1 – 4, NASB)

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Book of Revelation – Protestant Reformer Martin Luther Case FAQ

“Whoever guards his mouth and tongue Keeps his soul from troubles.” (Proverbs 21:23, NKJV)

 

1) Protestant Reformer Martin Luther hated the Jews

 

Martin Luther’s writing itself for his hate against the Jews has caused “Christians” believing in it in past history if not today (as the Case with John Calvin) to “murder” others which clearly raises the possibility of “no eternal life” for those who practiced such, for example, to quote:

 

“… In a paragraph from his On the Jews and Their Lies [Written in 1543*] he deplores Christendom’s failure to expel them. Moreover, he proposed “What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews”:[1]

“First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools … This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians …”

“Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed.”

“Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them.”

“Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb …”

“Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside …”

“Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them …”

“Seventh, I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow … But if we are afraid that they might harm us or our wives, children, servants, cattle, etc., … then let us emulate the common sense of other nations such as France, Spain, Bohemia, etc., … then eject them forever from the country …” …” – Wikipedia (“Luther, Martin”, JewishEncyclopedia.com; cf. Luther’s Works, American Edition, 55 vols., (St. Louis and Philadelphia: Concordia Publishing House and Fortress Press, 1955–86) 47:267.)

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_and_antisemitism

 

Actual history: Example of a “mas murder” done in the name of Martin Luther and John Calvin’s Doctrine influence:

 

“… Vincenz Fettmilch, a Calvinist, reprinted On the Jews and Their Lies in 1612 to stir up hatred against the Jews of Frankfurt. Two years later, riots in Frankfurt saw the deaths of 3,000 Jews and the expulsion of the rest. Fettmilch was executed by the Lutheran city authorities, but Michael writes that his execution was for attempting to overthrow the authorities, not for his offenses against the Jews. …”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_and_antisemitism

This Bible Verse below can question Martin Luther’s Salvation for both his “hate to the Jews” and the fact that his words has influenced someone to actually ‘commit murder toward the Jews’ (i.e. Vincenz Fettmilch) who reprinted Luther’s Book.

“Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” (1 John 3:15, NKJV)

In other words, if Vincenz Fettmilch has ‘no eternal life’ in him for killing those Jews due to reprinting Martin Luther’s Book which contained those exhortation to murder acts (list above), why should Martin Luther have ‘Eternal Life’ where even 1 John 3:15 doesn’t even allow ‘the hate’ even? [there is no way that Martin Luther was writing ‘love toward the Jews in this list’ and he was ‘misunderstood’ in the case of which he cannot be held accountable].

 

2) Protestant Reformer Martin Luther denied the Book of Revelation as Scripture

 

Martin Luther never acknowledged it as Scripture and the early church fathers who did so previously have their Salvation in question likewise.

 

The only reason he allowed the Book of Revelation is because many did not agree with such a removal and so he left it there even commenting that regardless if it’s there, “… It’s not right with his spirit… ” as he wrote meaning he could have committed the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit too in the Same breath. Here is his quote:

 

“… “To my mind it (the book of the Apocalypse) bears upon it no marks of an apostolic or prophetic character… Everyone may form his own judgment of this book; as for myself, I feel an aversion to it, and to me this is sufficient reason for rejecting it.” (ref. ammtliche Werke, 63, pp. 169-170, ‘The Facts About Luther,’ O’Hare, TAN Books, 1987, p. 203). …”

Source:

 

http://www.davidlgray.info/2013/09/11/500-years-of-protestantism-the-33-most-ridiculous-things-martin-luther-ever-wrote/

 

or a more fuller quote:

 

“… The Works of Martin Luther Volume Six [(Philadelphia: Muhlenberg Press, 1932), p. 488-489] (pdf) About this book of the Revelation of John, I leave everyone free to hold his own ideas, and would bind no man to my opinion or judgment; I say what I feel. I miss more than one thing in this book, and this makes me hold it to be neither apostolic nor prophetic. First and foremost, the Apostles do not deal with visions, but prophesy in clear, plain words, as do Peter and Paul, and Christ in the Gospel. For it befits the apostolic office to speak of Christ and His deeds without figures and visions; but there is no prophet in the Old Testament, to say nothing of the New, who deals so out and out with visions and figures. And so I think of it almost as I do of the Fourth Book of Esdras, and can nohow detect that the Holy Spirit produced it. Moreover, he seems to me to be going much too far when he commends his own book so highly, — more than any of the other sacred books do, though they are much more important, — and threatens that if anyone takes away anything from it, God will deal likewise with him. Again, they are to be blessed who keep what is written therein; and yet no one knows what that is, to say nothing of keeping it. It is just the same as if we had it not, and there are many far better books for us to keep. Many of the fathers, too, rejected this book of old, though St. Jerome, to be sure, praises it highly and says that it is above all praise and that there are as many mysteries in it as words; though he cannot prove this at all, and his praise is, at many points, too mild. Finally, let everyone think of it as his own spirit gives him to think. My spirit cannot fit itself into this book. There is one sufficient reason for me not to think highly of it,-Christ is not taught or known in it; but to teach Christ is the thing which an apostle is bound, above all else, to do, as He says in Acts 1:8 , “Ye shall be my witnesses.” Therefore I stick to the books which give me Christ, clearly and purely, …”

 

Source:

 

http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2016/01/luther-on-revelation-i-feel-aversion-to.html

 

The possible blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which has ‘no forgiveness in this age or the one to come’ (Matthew 12:31 – 32) part: “… this makes me hold it to be neither apostolic nor prophetic …” or “… And so I think of it [the Book of Revelation] almost as I do of the Fourth Book of Esdras, and can nohow detect that the Holy Spirit produced it …” or “… My spirit cannot fit itself into this book [of Revelation]. …”.

 

Note: I didn’t say that he committed the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit for sure but it is POSSIBLE in ‘his own words’ above.

 

This leaves us with an interesting question: Can God use a man who did not even recognize the Book of Revelation as Holy Scripture to ‘remove the other 7 Books from the Bible’ (i.e. namely Tobit, Judith, Additions to Esther, 1 Maccabees and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach, Baruch / Letter of Jeremiah) or was he cursed because he removed it?

 

It’s also interesting to see that God allowed a man who denied the Book of Revelation as Scripture (i.e. Martin Luther) to convert almost all of Protestantism (which somehow have a starting root back to him) proving possibly that ‘number of converts have nothing to do with one’s fruit/salvation but personal virtue only as First Christianity has taught’ agreeing to Galatians 5:22 as the “fruit” is the ‘9 fruits of the Holy Spirit a Christian ought to demonstrate with his faith & works in his life to be saved namely: “… 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23[g]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. …” (Galatians 5:22, NKJV).

I don’t know for sure if Martin Luther is saved or not but I’m cautious not to Speak against these Books easily either and follow the safer route of using & acknowledging it as per First Christianity.

 

Conclusion

If Protestant Reformer Martin Luther is Saved (which I hope), then Salvation for the rest of Christians will be ‘way easier’ too because not many of us dare to even do these errors which has ‘direct verses’ condemning it to either ‘no eternal life’ and/or ‘your name removed from the Book of Life’ level of Judgment.

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is “Olam” necessarily unchangeable forever and does God Have a Son according to the Old Testament Scripture?

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Third Temple Jewish Effort – No Eternal Temple either

 

Explanation

 

 

  1. God meant to Dwell in Solomon’s Temple (not any re-building temple places for ‘olam’) hence ‘olam is not forever’, for example:

 

“12Then Solomon spoke: “The Lord said He would dwell in the dark cloud. 13I have surely built You an exalted house, And a place for You to dwell in forever.” (1 Kings 8:12 – 13, NKJV)

 

This is the same word ‘olam’ used say in Daniel 12:2 below:

 

“And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting [Olam] life, Some to shame and everlasting [Olam] contempt.” (Daniel 12:2, NKJV)

 

So, [Olam] = [Aeon] = [Age-during, pertaining to a highlight of a time period of an age], What happens next? God Decides for the ‘next Age/Aeon/Olam’.

 

 

 

During this New Testament times, the “Temple” is the ‘body of the believers in Christ’, Verse:

 

“Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?” (1 Corinthians 6:19, NKJV)

 

 

There is a “Temple in heaven” (not earth) too:

 

“Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.” (Revelation 11:19, NKJV)

 

 

  1. Even the Third Temple won’t last and is where the Antichrist will Declare himself as God, Verses:

 

“1Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. [a]And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.” (Revelation 11:1 – 2, NKJV)

 

” 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” (1 Thessalonians 2:3 – 4, NKJV)

 

God cannot be using the same “defiled” Temple where the Antichrist declared himself as God after He Returns & His Messianic Reign Begins.

 

In fact, God Will Rebuild His Own Temple after Christ Returns during the “times of the Kingdom” or ‘the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ Timeline’ as per First Christianity’s Chiliasm Doctrine, to quote, Timeline:

 

  1. Antichrist Helps Jews Build a Fake Temple now in which he will declare himself as ‘god’ eventually as per 1 Thessalonians 2:3 – 4 earlier – the Jews and Christians alike will be deceived by such a ‘violent zionism’ movement

 

“… But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that “many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Against Heresies, V. 30.4)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

 

 

and ‘such Zionist Christians and Jews who support them will be deceived in this rebuilding of the Third Temple’ as follows:

 

“… 4. The Lord also spoke as follows to those who did not believe in Him: “I have come in my Father’s name, and ye have not received Me: when another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive,” calling Antichrist “the other,” because he is alienated from the Lord. This is also the unjust judge, whom the Lord mentioned as one “who feared not God, neither regarded man,” to whom the widow fled in her forgetfulness of God,-that is, the earthly Jerusalem,-to be avenged of her adversary. Which also he shall do in the time of his kingdom: he shall remove his kingdom into that [city], and shall sit in the temple of God, leading astray those who worship him, as if he were Christ. To this purpose Daniel says again: “And he shall desolate the holy place; and sin has been given for a sacrifice, and righteousness been cast away in the earth, and he has been active (fecit), and gone on prosperously.” And the angel Gabriel, when explaining his vision, states with regard to this person: “And towards the end of their kingdom a king of a most fierce countenance shall arise, one understanding [dark] questions, and exceedingly powerful, full of wonders; and he shall corrupt, direct, influence (faciet), and put strong men down, the holy people likewise; and his yoke shall be directed as a wreath [round their neck]; deceit shall be in his hand, and he shall be lifted up in his heart: he shall also ruin many by deceit, and lead many to perdition, bruising them in his hand like eggs.” And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: “And in the midst of the week,” he says, “the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.” Now three years and six months constitute the half-week. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter XXV, Point 4)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

 

  1. After Christ has Returned and Destroyed the Antichrist/Beast, the First Resurrection occurs and the Millennial Reign with Christians only Begins where an ‘earthly Jerusalem Temple’ will be ‘Re-Built’ for the ‘sinners/mortal Israelite who still dwell on the earth’ (Isaiah 65:20 – KJV).

 

“… But in the times of the kingdom, the earth has been called again by Christ [to its pristine condition], and Jerusalem rebuilt after the pattern of the Jerusalem above, of which the prophet Isaiah says, “Behold, I have depicted thy walls upon my hands, and thou art always in my sight,” And the apostle, too, writing to the Galatians, says in like manner, “But the Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.” He does not say this with any thought of an erratic Aeon, or of any other power which departed from the Pleroma, or of Prunicus, but of the Jerusalem which has been delineated on [God’s] hands. And in the Apocalypse John saw this new [Jerusalem] descending upon the new earth. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XXXV, Point 2)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

  1. God will not Dwell in a Temple made by ‘sinner’s hands’ anymore as Prophesied referring to the New Covenant Times and beyond

 

” 47But Solomon built Him a house. 48“However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says: 49‘Heaven is My throne, And earth is My footstool.

What house will you build for Me? says the Lord, Or what is the place of My rest?” (Acts 7:47 – 49, NKJV)

 

  1. After the 1000 Years Millennial Reign of Christ (Revelation 20:4 – 6) and after Judgment Day & the Lake of Fire Judgment (Revelation 20:11 – 15), God will make a “new Earth and a new Heaven”.

 

In this New Earth and New Heavens, there will no more be any Physical Temple ever Rebuilt by anyone [and this is not the Millennial Reign Time either which happens to a ‘restored old earth &b heavens first’ as during the ‘new earth, there will be no sea’], Verses:

 

“1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. … 22But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.” (Revelation 21:1 – 2, 22 – 23, NKJV)

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Devil – the Father of Murderers

 

Question

 

Protestant Reformers Martin Luther and John Calvin wrote to kill their enemies as a Judgment of God because that’s what Christ would do to stop evil.

 

Reply

 

That’s exactly how the Roman Catholics defend their reason for the Crusade Wars. However, I beg to differ as the Old Testament Ways of “hate your enemy” Verses are Cancelled by Christ Himself Who Established the New Covenant for “True Christians” to “obey” this instead:

 

“43“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, ” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:43 – 44, NKJV)

 

Focus Phrases from the above:

 

“You have heard that it was said … hate your enemy” (any Old Testament Verses teaching this)

 

“44But I say to you, love your enemies” (Christ Cancels all the Old Testament hate your enemy Verses and establishes “only” [not a mix of] Love your enemies instead – please read carefully again and don’t be deceived)

 

  1. Not one ‘go and kill a Jew… ‘ phrase in Christ’s Words, so it’s a common wrong claim.
  2. Christ only warned the unbelieving Jews of afterlife Judgment and Christians should “only” do that if needed. Nothing more is Biblical in this Judgment Context.
  3. Yep, Christ would Say that to Martin Luther too because He taught us to Love our enemies, not kill our enemies even “cancelling” the hate your enemies verses in the Old Testament in Matthew 5:43 – 44.

 

  1. Christ only approved correction words and any hate/murder words/acts are from the Devil indeed as per 1 John 3:15 or John 8:44.

 

  1. Let’s strive to obey Christ in this aspect not only because “obedience is better than sacrifice” (1 Samuel 15:22) but also because if we fail in this particular Command in word/act, we can ‘lose our eternal life’ as per Verses below:

 

“Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” (1 John 3:15, NKJV)

 

  1. True Christians cannot kill in the name of religion at all but if they work as a Soldier or as a Police for a ‘secular government’, a sword can be wielded but toward “criminals only” (not religious enemies) and you must be right or if not that’s murder too, Verse:

 

“1Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.” (Romans 13:1 – 4, NKJV)

 

Note: The “Roman Government” Blessed Apostle St. Paul is commanding Christians to “obey” and ‘it’s from God’ is a Government which “kills Christians too at times”. Please read this again.

  1. Since I am a heretic by John Calvin or Martin Luther’s standards, if you truly believe that it is the Judgment of God, then I challenge you to come and kill me to put your foot where your mouth is instead of ‘just in words’ so that you can do the good of stopping a heretic like me. Why? You should obey God to kill me the heretic as per Martin Luther and John Calvin’s warning right instead of obeying men, right? Or have you decided to love your enemy (me) by refraining of which John Calvin or Martin Luther may say ‘you have disobeyed God’? I’m not making this up, here’s a quote:

 

“… Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death, knowingly and willingly incur their guilt. It is not human authority that speaks, it is God who speaks and prescribes a perpetual rule for His Church.” …” – John Calvin

 

Source:

 

http://www.reenactingtheway.com/blog/john-calvin-had-people-killed-and-bad-bible-interpretation-justified-it

 

 

and

“First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools … This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians … “[w]e [Christians] are at fault in not slaying them [Jews]”. ..” – Martin Luther (He also seems to advocate their murder, writing this)

Source [Luther, Martin. On the Jews and Their Lies, cited in Michael, Robert. “Luther, Luther Scholars, and the Jews,” Encounter 46 (Autumn 1985) No. 4:343–344.]:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_and_antisemitism

 

Oh ya, and I deserve ‘Eternal Hell’ for Preaching possible Christ Centered Universalism Hope toward ‘John Calvin and Martin Luther’ too, is it? ‘Think Biblically’.

 

 

A note on Martyrdom:

 

  1. i) Contrary to ‘Western Christianity’, if you die whilst trying to kill your enemies, that’s NOT Martyrdom but “death”.

 

  1. ii) Truth is “Martyrdom” is ONLY when you die but you did NOT intend/try to kill your enemies

“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.” (Revelation 12:11, NKJV)

 

Example Posts proving that Martin Luther and John Calvin taught such things:

  1. i) Martin Luther

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159503396462784

 

or

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159399659322784

or

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159399771867784

 

  1. ii) John Calvin

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159423090032784

or

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159450086027784

 

 

 

 

 

 

Truth is indeed hard to accept.

 

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ – was He a Jew or an Israelite?

 

Firstly, we must understand that every Jew is a Israelite but not every Israelite is a Jew.

 

Definition:

 

  1. Israelite

 

Descendants of Jacob. That is why He is called the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob highlighting this Particular lineage for the definition of an Israelite since it was Jacob’s Name (not Abraham’s) which was changed to “Israel”.

 

The fact that some Israelite are of mixed lineage (e.g. the children of Joseph as he married foreign women doesn’t really matter as long as they have Jacob’s blood somewhere though mixed marriage was discouraged at that time; the debate of maternal blood determining one is Jew or not is a later practice because as in Joseph’s case, his children are Israelite because they are from Paternal blood only being linked to Jacob since Joseph’s wife was a foreigner).

 

  1. Jew

 

A Jew refers specifically to those linked in blood to the particular lineage of Blessed Patriarch Judah, one of Blessed Patriarch Jacob’s son.

 

iii. Is Jesus a Jew or an Israelite only?

 

Based on these definitions (i and ii), Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ is certainly a Jew as per example quote below:

 

“… Although His Father was God (through the agency of the Holy Spirit), His mother was a Jewish woman named Mary. Her husband, Joseph, was Jesus’ legal father or guardian. According to the genealogy from Mary, on His human side Christ is descended from the Israelite tribal patriarch Judah and his descendant King David (Luke 3:31, Luke 3:33; compare Acts 2:30; 2 Timothy 2:8). The biblical testimony is plain. The book of Hebrews tells us that “it is evident that our Lord arose from [the tribe of] Judah …” (7:14). And those descended from Judah are known by the abbreviated term Jews. The apostle John wrote that “He came to His own [the Jews], and His own did not receive Him” (John 1:11). Both a Samaritan woman and the Roman governor Pontius Pilate clearly recognized that Jesus was Jewish (John 4:9; John 18:35). We are further told that “the scepter shall not depart from Judah” (Genesis 49:10). The scepter symbolizes the promise of kingship and salvation. Jesus, the King of the Jews, is the Messiah. Christ (the Greek term for Messiah) is the ultimate fulfillment of the ruler mentioned prophetically in 1 Chronicles 5:2: “Yet Judah prevailed over his brothers, and from him came a ruler.” The Bible’s final book refers to Jesus as “the Lion of the tribe of Judah” (Revelation 5:5). On Jesus’ human side, David is called His father, meaning ancestor, in Luke 1:32. Romans 1:3 likewise says he “was born of the seed of David according to the flesh.” Thus, from numerous testimonies, He was certainly a Jew. …”

 

Source:

https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/booklets/who-is-god/jesus-was-a-jew

 

Iv. Modern Definitions – Messianic Jew

 

The modern definition that a ‘born Gentile’ can become a ‘Jew’ in Judaism or the equivalent ‘Messianic Jew conversion practice’ has no Christian Biblical basis. A person is born Jewish by ‘blood’ only (i.e. it’s by race not conversion) as per Verses below:

 

“10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” (Acts 2:10 – 11, NKJV)

 

The New Testament classification itself above refers to a ‘race-based’ definition where the “Jews” are mentioned separately (sometimes referring to Israelite as a whole too). Further, please notice that the phrase “Jews and proselytes” clearly distinguishes the ‘Israelite Jews’ vs ‘Gentile Proselytes’ meaning that even in Judaism at that time, no one can convert into Judaism to become a “Jew” unless he is an Israelite first. Also, a Gentile convert to Judaism is clearly still called a “proselyte” as distinctly mentioned in Acts 2:10 above.

 

Any such ancient practice of conversion to Judaism (e.g. Ruth 1:16, Leviticus 19:34) has NO value or application to Christians in the Context of Salvation (Acts 15:1, 5) where Gentile believers only need to follow Apostle St. Paul’s “Written” New Testament Commands as he is the Apostle to the Gentiles (1 Corinthians 14:37, 2 Peter 3:2, Acts 15:19 – 20) where the ‘Jewish by Blood believers can keep some Old Testament Customs if they wish to’ (e.g. Acts 21:24) but ‘Gentile Christians need to observe no such thing’ (Acts 21:25) and even it is dangerous for a Gentile Believer’s Salvation if they attempt to add to Blessed St. Paul’s Lord’s Commands (Galatians 1:6 – 10 refers to the this Context as Apostle Paul even corrected Apostle Peter in this in Galatians 2:14, Galatians 2:18). For example Apostle Paul warned Gentile believers to not practice circumcision (Galatians 5:2) but Timothy could be circumcised simply because he was ‘half-Jew’ (Acts 16:1 – 3).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christian Faith – Which Prophetic Error can Cost your Salvation?

 

Some Christians view Matthew 7:22 to imply that ‘Lawlessness’ includes ‘False Prophecy’ as shown in Image. In light of that, I wish to discuss a little about “Prophecy”.

 

 

 

 

In Matthew 7:20 – 23, Christians are aware of “many” among them to be rejected from the First Resurrection when He Returns (Revelation 20:4 – 6). Here, I would like to focus on the “prophecy” part only. Prophecy is Speaking about the future.

 

 

Let’s consider these Top Christian Prophecy Views Today which surprising to most Christians, some of which has “no” basis at all in First Christianity:

 

1) Preterism

 

2) Universalism vs Eternal Hell vs Annihilation

 

3) Pre-Tribulation Rapture

 

4) Violent Zionism Agenda – Third Temple Rebuilding Effort by Jews and some Christians alike

 

 

 

 

The Details are discussed in posts below:

1) Preterism

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159479573052784

or

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159484912927784

 

2) Universalism vs Eternal Hell vs Annihilation

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159489975292784

or

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159410771327784

3) Pre-Tribulation Rapture

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159465864192784

4) Violent Zionism Agenda – Third Temple Rebuilding Effort by Jews and some Christians alike

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159504520427784

 

 

Conclusion

 

Honestly, I cannot tell either way if any Christian will be rejected from the First Resurrection if they got the ‘Prophecy Belief’ part wrong. I personally feel that if they lived a sincere life of loving others in action (especially taking care of the poor with their money & preaching the Gospel to as many within their reach, Matthew 19:21’s Perfection Call), such a one can surely be Saved I believe as per Galatians 5:14’s ‘entire Law is fulfilled in Loving your neighbour as yourself’ (hence ‘no Lawlessness’ remains – Can you see it?).

 

I am confident in this Hope for such Christians who err in such Prophecy Beliefs because First Christianity was more focused on identifying ‘false prophets’ based on ‘different traits’ instead especially ‘money’ as discussed in post below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159494356697784

 

For Protestants, the fact that their Reformers John Calvin and Martin Luther have more serious doctrinal errors and ‘serious life errors in action’ gives more hope for the common misled sheep to be Saved as highlighted in post below:

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159507110132784

 

“knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,” (2 Peter 1:20, NKJV)

 

To obey 2 Peter 1:20 above, for points 1), 3) and 4), it is very clear that Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons did NOT believe in it and so I feel safe likewise to emulate his faith (Hebrews 13:7). Regarding point 2), all three schools of thought (i.e. Universalism vs Eternal Hell vs Annihilation) have quoted Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons on it (though I think he believed in Christ Centered Universalism as I have plenty of his quotes pointing to that as well as discussed further in the free downloadable e-book below):

 

Click the button above to Download as PDFClick the button above to Download as in Google Book App

Regarding Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons as a Universally accepted Apostolic Witness of First Christianity, please consider the link below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus

 

Source Web-Post for this write-up:

 

https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/olam-and-lake-of-fire-mystery-in-the-book-of-1enoch/amp

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did St. Ireneaous of Lyons believe in Pre-Tribulation Rapture?

“… Often Irenaeus is grouped with other early church fathers as teaching historic premillennialism which maintain a belief in the earthly reign of Christ but differ from dispensational premillennialism in their view of the rapture as to when the translation of saints occurs. In Against Heresies (V.XXIX.1) he says “And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, ‘There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.'” …”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus

 

In the Wikipedia Link above, it incorrectly quotes Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons as believing in a ‘Pre-Mid-Tribulation Rapture’. Truth is, Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons only believeed in post-Tribulation Rapture which is a well known fact among scholars too. Here is that quote in full:

“… 1. In the previous books I have set forth the causes for which God permitted these things to be made, and have pointed out that all such have been created for the benefit of that human nature which is saved, ripening for immortality that which is [possessed] of its own free will and its own power, and preparing and rendering it more adapted for eternal subjection to God. And therefore the creation is suited to [the wants of] man; for man was not made for its sake, but creation for the sake of man. Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance-in fact, as nothing; ” so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XXIX, Point 1)

 

Translation Source:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

 

The Church is clearly caught “from this” where the “this” refers to the “Final Great Tribulation” does not mean that it escapes it but Its Salvation comes suddenly during when this Tribulation occurs as Christ Returns ‘Suddenly’.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This correct context is clear from St. Irenaeous’ other writings as follows:

“… For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of Antichrist, and the destruction of all nations under his rule; in [the times of] which [resurrection] the righteous shall reign in the earth, waxing stronger by the sight of the Lord: and through Him they shall become accustomed to partake in the glory of God the Father, and shall enjoy in the kingdom intercourse and communion with the holy angels, and union with spiritual beings; and [with respect to] those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XXXV, Point 1)

Translation Source:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

 

Focus Phrases: “… who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption. …”

 

“who have suffered tribulation” = Those Christians who were tortured or died in the hands of the Antichrist.

” as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one which” = Some Christians who are still alive when Christ Returns to Destroy the Antichrist

 

Don’t believe the ‘Wikipedia’ —> Research its source.

 

More is discussed in link below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159508028537784

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pre-tribulation and mid-tribulation Rapture refuted by One Verse

 

“so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.” – Hebrews (Hebrews 9:28, NKJV)

 

Please ‘think’ about this Verse ‘carefully’: If there was a Pre-tribulation Rapture or Mid-tribulation Rapture, wouldn’t this be “His coming for the THIRD time?”

 

Please also note ‘carefully’ that the His Coming for a “SECOND time” Spoken of in Verse above refers NOT for unbelievers but believers as the phrase “… To those who eagerly wait for Him ..” in “… To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time …” means. Can you see it? Please read this again. Let us not remain deceived.

 

Please compare with the “Blessed Hope” Verses below toward His Return for believers which is Speaking of this Same Second Coming:

 

“13looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.15Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.” (Titus 2:13 – 15, NKJV)

 

Listen to the Angels Speaking this Same Truth below where He Comes back in the Same Way (in Reverse, i. e. from the “Heavens” to the “Clouds” till “His Feet Touches Mount Olive”) in Verses below:

 

“9Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:9 – 11, NKJV)

 

Last but not least, both the “[Second] Coming of our Lord” and “our Gathering with Him” (including Rapture for living believers for this One ‘Gathering of the Elect’, 1 Thessalonians 13 – 18) only occurs AFTER the Antichrist Declares himself as “god” which again clearly points to after the mid-week and after the Final Great Tribulation in Verses below:

 

“1Now, brethren, concerning the COMING of our LORD JESUS CHRIST and OUR GATHERING TOGETHER to HIM, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for THAT DAY will NOT COME UNLESS the FALLING AWAY COMES FIRST, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:1 – 3, NKJV)

 

In Verses above, please notice carefully that on THAT DAY (1 Same Day) two Events Happen namely:

 

  1. COMING of our LORD JESUS CHRIST = His Second Coming (Hebrews 9:28, Matthew 24:29-after the tribulation-Matthew 24:30)

 

  1. OUR GATHERING TOGETHER to HIM = First Resurrection for the Dead Christias being Resurrected (Revelation 20:4 – 6, 1 Thessalonians 4:16) which happens first (1 Thessalonians 4:15) where only after that the ‘Rapture’ for the still living Christians on Earth occurs (1 Thessalonians 4:17). Matthew 24:31

 

Compare:

 

“29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:29 – 31, NKJV)

 

The Gathering on “earth” part is ‘Rapture for the Elect who are alive’ (1 Thessalonians 4:17) while the Gathering in the Heavens is the souls of the Elect who are dead in Christ who Participate in the First Resurrection which occurs first according to 1 Thessalonians 4:15 – 16 which is the only one highlighted in Matthew 24:31 above (can you now why Blessed Matthew did not write the ‘Gathering on earth’ part as Blessed Mark does in Verse below because this happens ‘later’, next):

 

“And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 13:27, NKJV)

 

That’s why in Verses below, Christ Himself assures this Same Order of Events in that after His Second Coming, He exhorts believers who are still alive on Earth to be Ready in that ‘anytime’ the Angel is going to come for you where you will experience the “Rapture” (change into the ‘Immortal Resurrection Body’ but without dying), to quote:

 

“25“And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 21:25 – 28, NKJV)

 

Notice carefully He Says that “your redemption draws near” (meaning you referring to “Christians” are still not Saved yet, not Redeemed till after His Second Coming, but anytime now) where “Redemption” is nothing else than Attaining to that Glorious Immortal Body (Romans 8:23).

 

More regarding only Post-Tribulation Rapture being Taught in First Christianity is Discussed in links below:

 

1) Did St. Ireneaous of Lyons believe in Pre-Tribulation Rapture?

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159508215297784&id=651792783

 

2) Christian Faith – Which Prophetic Error can Cost your Salvation?

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159508028537784&id=651792783

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

7th Trumpet Proves Post Tribulation Rapture

 

Bible Verses:

 

  1. i) The 7th Trumpet Prophesied as relating to the “Mystery of God” known to “His Prophets”

“5The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised up his [c]hand to heaven 6and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there should be delay no longer, 7but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.” (Revelation 10:5 – 7, NKJV)

 

  1. ii) The 7th Trumpet cannot be ‘Pre-Tribulation nor Mid-Tribulation Rapture’ nor a ‘Secret Coming’ but the “Second Coming of Christ” as Echoed in Verses below of which Immediate Judgment follows (Matthew 7:20 – 23, as “the dead” & “the wicked” are judged as the rejection of “many” from the First Resurrection too) with His Millennial Reign Prophesied here as ‘the Kingdoms of this World has now become Christ’s’ (Revelation 20:4 – 6, Revelation 19:1 – 10, Revelation 7:9 – 17 as the Book of Revelation often Gives a Glimpse of ‘this End’ in these Verses).as He has Destroyed the Antichrist and his kingdom (Revelation 19:11 – 21)

 

“15Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” 16And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 18The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth.” (Revelation 11:15 – 18, NKJV)

 

iii) The 7th Trumpet = the Last Trumpet in which the Rapture Happens after Christ Destroys the Antichrist as explained Prior

 

“15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the TRUMPET of GOD. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.” (1 Thessalonians 4:15 – 17, NKJV)

 

“50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMPET. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:50 – 53, NKJV)

 

This ‘dead’ only refers to the ‘dead in Christ’ (1 Thessalonians 4:13, 16) and refers to the First Resurrection (Revelation 20:4 – 6) apart from the alive ones who are Raptured as described in Verses above as the Rapture only happens after the First Resurrection (1 Thessalonians 4:15, 17) for that “Millennial Reign Age/Aeon = 1000 Years” in Christ’s Own Most Blessed Words below:

 

“34Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.” (Luke 20:34 – 36, NKJV):

Conclusion

 

There are only “Seven Trumpets” mentioned in the Book of Revelation and so The 7th Trumpet = the Last Trumpet Which clearly Sounds at the “Rapture”. The above is a well known explanation, to quote:

 

“… Christians who follow the Posttribulation rapture doctrine, argue that the seventh trumpet is the last trumpet mentioned in I Corinthians 15:52,[19] and that there is a strong correlation between the events mentioned in Isaiah 27:13,[20] Matthew 24:29-31,[21] and I Thessalonians 4:16.[22] These parallels are used to support the doctrine of the rapture occurring after the tribulation. Therefore, Posttribulationists see the rapture happening during the seventh trumpet. The nature of the 7th trumpet shows that “time is no more, and that the mystery of God is finished, Rev. 10:6,7. At the 7th trumpet, Jesus rules and reigns forevermore,[23] He has taken His great power and reigned,[24] and He rewards the righteous, and judges the wicked. …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_trumpets

 

More related Reading:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159510723492784

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Aeon/Age/Olam used to Denote Exactly 1000 Years by Christ Himself and so it is NOT always forever

 

“Millennial Reign Age/Aeon = 1000 Years” in Christ’s Own Most Blessed Words below:

“34Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.” (Luke 20:34 – 36, NKJV)

 

That Age/Aeon is referring to this “First Resurrection Age”:

 

“And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.” (Revelation 20:4 – 6, NKJV)

 

This “age to come” where “those worthy” (among Christians) attain to “age-during life” as the ‘same word’ is used as a noun and adjective to describe this ‘same 1000 Years Millennial Reign Time Period’ may be referred to by Christ in Verses below Proving this Definition as “possibly” most accurate, to quote:

 

“who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions—and in the age [Aeon-Noun ]to come, eternal [Aeonian-Adjective] life.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 10:30, NKJV)

 

and

 

“who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age [Aeon] to come eternal [Aeonian] life.””(Luke 18:30, NKJV)

 

[Emphasis Mine]

 

Summary

 

“… 35But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead …” (Luke 20:35) = “… . And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. …” (Revelation 20:4 – 5) = “and in the age to come, eternal life.” (Mark 10:30) = “and in the age to come eternal life.” (Luke 18:30)

 

This is the Same “Aeon” (Greek) or “Olam” (Hebrew) Word found in these Verses too:

 

“And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting [Olam] life, Some to shame and everlasting [Olam] contempt.” (Daniel 12:2, NKJV)

 

“And these will go away into everlasting [Aeonian] punishment, but the righteous [Aeonian] into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46, NKJV)

First Christianity Defined the ‘Eternal Life’ (equivalent term ‘Zoe Aionion, Matthew 25:46’) if it refers to the ‘Same Life after Partaking of the Tree of Life’ (Genesis 3:22, or in Revelation 2:7) as ‘Exactly 1000 years Time Period of His Millennial Reign where only Christians will be Resurrected’ (Revelation 20:4 – 6).

 

Says who?

 

One of the First kings of Christian Theology and a leading Marytr after the Apostles themselves, St. Justin Martyr below:

 

“… Now we have understood that the expression used among these words, ‘According to the days of the tree[of life] shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound’ obscurely predicts a thousand years. For as Adam was told that in the nay fie ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject…” ) – Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD) (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’, CHAPTER LXXX)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.htm

 

Proof Quote:

 

“According to the days of the tree[of life] shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound’ obscurely predicts a thousand years.” – St. Justin Martyr

 

Not only him, but the king of Orthodoxy after him who was sent by God to correct even the Roman Church at that time testifies to this same definition that the “days of the tree of life” (Olam or Aeon or Age-during) refers exactly to this ‘1000 years only and not forever’.

 

Please note carefully that ‘sinners’ (mortals) are still present on earth during that time and Judgment Day & the Lake of Fire Judgment is only ‘after’ this ‘1000 years Aeonian Life’ is finished with the Tree of Life, to quote from a previous write up:

 

Does it mean that after the 1000 years, they die?

 

No, they obtain “Immortality” (an entirely different word in New Testament Greek) but only after that 1000 years part as part of the ‘Glorification Process’, to quote (this fine detail explanation from First Christianity):

 

Yes, it’s during the 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ (Revelation 20:4 – 6) alongside ‘sinful’ mortals too though the ‘First Resurrection ones’ (Sheepfold1, Christians) never sin again nor marry (Luke 20:35 – 36), to quote:

 

” Also there shall not be there any immature [one], nor an old man who does not fulfil his time: for the youth shall be of a hundred years; and the sinner shall die a hundred years old, yet shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and inhabit them themselves; and shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them themselves, and shall drink wine. And they shall not build, and others inhabit; neither shall they prepare the vineyard, and others eat. For as the days of the tree of life shall be the days of the people in thee; for the works of their hands shall endure.”– Blessed St. Irenaeous, Bishop of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (‘Against Heresies’, Book 5)

Please note this phrase carefully from the above which proves that the ‘fruit of the Tree of Life’ gives ‘age-during (Aeonian life)’ for ‘a thousand years and NOT forever’:

 

“For as the days of the tree of life shall be the days of the people in thee;” – St. Irenaeous

 

Please note that the phrase ‘immortality is conferred also’ in the quote below proofs that these ones do not die after the ‘age-during length of days due to the Tree of Life’:

 

“As we at once perceive that the Creator (Demiurgo) is in this passage represented as vivifying our dead bodies, and promising resurrection to them, and resuscitation from their sepulchres and tombs, conferring upon them immortality also (He says, “For as the tree of life, so shall their days be” ), He is shown to be the only God who accomplishes these things, and as Himself the good Father, benevolently conferring life upon those who have not life from themselves.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5)

 

Translation source for St. Irenaeous’ quotes above:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

 

Conclusion – First Christianity Taught the Concept of “Ages (Aeons) to Come” literally (Ephesians 2:7)

 

Example: from the Testimony of Blessed St. Ireneaous of Lyons

“… we [True Christians] ourselves, when at the giving of thanks we pronounce the words, “To Aeons of Aeons” [Revelation 20:10] do set forth these Aeons. And, in fine, wherever the words Aeon or Aeons occur, they at once refer them to these beings.” – Blessed St. Irenaeous, Bishop of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Chapter III, Book I)

 

Translation Source:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html

 

The quote above is from Page 1282 from this book:

 

Click the button above to Download as PDFClick the button above to Download as in Google Book App

And here’s a quote from Page 1045 in this book from the ‘Mysterious Lost Writings of Blessed St. Ireneaeous of Lyons’ who was the last link to First Apostolic Christianity:

And What God’s Will is in the Ages (Aeons)?

 

“… Christ, who was called the Son of God before the ages [Aeons], was manifested in the fulness of time, in order that He might cleanse us through His blood, who were under the power of sin, presenting us as pure sons to His Father, if we yield ourselves obediently to the chastisement of the Spirit. And in the end of time He shall come to do away with all evil, and to reconcile all things [Colossians 1:16, 20], in order that there may be an end of all impurities. … ” – Blessed St. Irenaeous, Bishop of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Fragment XXXIX, FRAGMENTS FROM THE LOST WRITINGS OF IRENAEUS)

 

Translation Source:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-fragments.html

 

Regarding Blessed St. Ireneaous of Lyons who is often quoted as the ‘Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching’ by many conventional scholars from the Roman Catholics to Protestantism too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus

This ‘Elect Salvation’ and ‘non-Elect Salvation’ (including for the Wicked or His enemies being made subject to Him may also be echoed by this undisputed Great Saint in First Christianity likewise), to quote:

“… The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first. “Moreover, the prescription that twelve bells be attached to the [robe] of the high priest, which hung down to the feet, was a symbol of the twelve apostles, who depend on the power of Christ, the eternal Priest; and through their voice it is that all the earth has been filled with the glory and grace of God and of His Christ. Wherefore David also says: ‘Their sound has gone forth into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.’ And Isaiah speaks as if he were personating the apostles, when they say to Christ that they believe not in their own report, but in the power of Him who sent them. And so he says: ‘Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child. Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation. And in short, sirs,” said I, “by enumerating all the other appointments of Moses I can demonstrate that they were types, and symbols, and declarations of those things which would happen to Christ, of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him, and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself. But since what I have now enumerated appears to me to be sufficient, I revert again to the order of the discourse.” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, CHAPTER XLI & CHAPTER XLII, ‘Dialogue with Trypho’)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

Please also notice ‘carefully’ how Blessed St. Justin Martyr distinguishes the Church as One Body vs the Wicked converted as ‘One Child’ as two different entities as follows:

 

  1. i) The Wicked becoming Obedient/Subjected – as One Child – The “non-Elect Salvation” as per “all His Enemies” (1 Corinthians 15:25) in the End till God becomes All in All (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28)

“…We have preached before Him as if [He were] a child, as if a root in a dry ground.’ (And what follows in order of the prophecy already quoted.) But when the passage speaks as from the lips of many, ‘We have preached before Him,’ and adds, ‘as if a child,’ it signifies that the wicked shall become subject to Him, and shall obey His command, and that all shall become as one child … and of those things which would also be done by Christ Himself …” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr

  1. ii) The Church compared as an Analogy to that – The “Elect Salvation”

“… Such a thing as you may witness in the body: although the members are enumerated as many, all are called one, and are a body. For, indeed, a commonwealth and a church, though many individuals in number, are in fact as one, called and addressed by one appellation … of those who it was foreknown were to believe in Him,…” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr

 

” … And Justin of Neapolis, a man who was not far separated from the apostles either in age or excellence, says that that which is mortal is inherited, but that which is immortal inherits; and that the flesh indeed dies, but the kingdom of heaven lives. …” — From METHODIUS On the Resurrection, in Photius. (Fragment V, St. Justin Martyr’s Lost Writings)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-fragments.html

Note: Justin of Neapolis = Blessed St. Justin Martyr

 

I remain in Wonder of God’s Plan of the Ages.

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Indian Christianity Perspective – Rapture – Pre-tribulation, Mid-tribulation or Post-tribulation?

 

Here I present three popular Indian preachers where at least two of whom have claimed to have seen Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ many times.

 

1) Dr. Paul Dhinakaran

Dr. DGS Dhinakaran’s son Dr. Paul Dhinakaran – Preaches Pre-tribulation Rapture

Example Video of Dr. Paul Dhinakaran (Head of “Jesus Calls” Ministry now in India) teaching it (some say that he cannot believe this differently from his father right?):

 

https://youtu.be/iIb7zz2Jhrc

 

About Dr. Paul Dhinakaran:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Dhinakaran

 

Mrs. Choo Nam Thomas claimed likewise that Lord Jesus Christ showed her ‘Pre-tribulation Rapture’ as per her Visits to heaven (in her widely accepted book ‘Heaven is so Real’ as may have been translated by Rev. Dr. David Yonggi Cho, head of the Assemblies of God Churches, even the biggest church in the world now too) as discussed in a ‘later part’ in link below:

https://www.facebook.com/651792783/posts/10159455296362784/

 

2) Dr. DGS Dhinakaran

Dr. DGS Dhinakaran (Founder of “Jesus Calls” Ministry in India) – Preached Mid/Post – Tribulation Rapture (to happen within 20 to 30 years from latest 2008, because he passed away/died in 2008 – this means that Dr. DGS Dhinakaran’s Prophecy in Video implies that the Rapture must happen latest by 2038).

 

Example Video:

 

https://youtu.be/97jdkg8e7Kw

About Dr DGS Dhinakaran:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._G._S._Dhinakaran

 

Note: This must be Mid/Post Tribulation Rapture because he describes many ‘Christians being killed first’ before that happens in Video above clearly.

 

Please also take note that Dr. DGS Dhinakaran has confirmed seeing Blessed Sadhu Sundar Singh saved in heaven in his book, details and proof in link below:

 

https://www.facebook.com/651792783/posts/10159143902292784/

 

A difficult thing about Dr. DGS Dhinakaran’s visit to heaven is shown in image where in his own words, he states that he has seen ‘God the Father’s Face for a fraction of a Second’ which seems difficult as discussed in the ‘later part’ in link below:

 

https://www.facebook.com/651792783/posts/10159516320652784/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj

 

Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj greatly admires the late Blessed Sadhu Sundar Singh, example quote:

 

“… When the Lord Jesus spoke those words he just stretched out his hands like that and there was a vast space of emptiness and from the left corner of the place that Jesus Christ was standing Moses walked in, Jeremiah the prophet walked in, then Elijah, Elisha, the Apostle Paul and Peter and the SAINT SADHU SUNDAR SINGH and Smith Wigglesworth was walked in. They came and stood by the side of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Lord Jesus said, these are the saints, I will give you a place among them if you will continue to be obedient to do my work. You see, this is what is written in Zechariah 3:5-8, when you walk the life of obedience heaven is your home. Amen …” – Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj

 

Source:

 

https://www.gospelstation.net/BibleAndTools/Wait_on_God/waiting_text_1_en.html

 

Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj – Preaches Post-tribulation Rapture, Example Video:

 

https://youtu.be/6Jn1fg6RSNQ

 

Or

 

https://youtu.be/yBaV9YZdPEg

 

About Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj:

 

https://www.christian-faith.com/sadhu-sundar-selvaraj/

 

About Blessed Sadhu Sundar Singh:

 

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Sadhu_Sundar_Singh

 

As usual, I present the evidence and you decide for yourselves what you wish to believe. As for me, I believe in Post-tribulation Rapture and Blessed Sadhu Sundar Singh’s Visions more than these others. Did you notice that both Dr. DGS Dhinakaran and Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj both have high regard for the Christian Universalist Blessed Sadhu Sundar Singh and obviously imply that he is Saved? Interesting Indeed.

 

My Beliefs for Post-tribulation Rapture as it was Taught in First Christianity even in Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons’ writings onward can be seen in detail in various posts below:

 

0) 7th Trumpet Mystery

 

https://www.facebook.com/651792783/posts/10159511577422784/

 

Or

 

https://www.facebook.com/651792783/posts/10159510723492784/

 

Or

 

https://www.facebook.com/651792783/posts/10159465864192784/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or more details:

 

  1. i) Pre-Tribulation Rapture Impossibility?

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159456468237784

 

  1. ii) Sola Scriptura – No Rapture Theory in Christianity

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159455296362784

 

iii) Overcomers without Pre-Tribulation Rapture

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159459809557784

 

  1. iv) First Christianity – did anyone Teach Pre-tribulation Rapture Theory?

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159460167692784

 

  1. v) Rapture – Left Behind last chance Theory

 

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159462141417784

 

  1. vi) Christ’s Own Words Explain the Rapture

 

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159465616907784

 

vii) Example of other Christians in Malaysia believing in “Post-tribulation Rapture”

 

https://christianitymalaysia.com/wp/rapture-before-tribulation

ABOUT the Author for the Article in link above: Dr Lim Poh Ann is a medical practitioner. He was the former editor of Asian Beacon magazine (December 2008 – October 2011)

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pre-Tribulation Rapture in First Christianity?

 

Question

 

The image shows proof that the ‘Pre-Tribulation Rapture’ Theory was believed by some early Christians.

Reply

 

Here’s a simple “Biblical” logic: If the Rapture occurred before the Final Tribulation, who is the Antichrist “anti” or persecuting then since all the remaining ones are on his camp?

 

Also, Revelation 20:4 – 6 clearly mentions ‘Priests of God’ who will be chosen from among those who ‘did not receive the mark of the beast & were killed/beheaded during the Antichrist’s Reign itself’ – so is there ‘Christian Salvation’ after the Rapture? If so, this contradicts 1 Thessalonians 4:15 which clearly states that ‘the First Resurrection of the Dead in Christ must happen first’ (1 Thessalonians 4:16) before the Rapture for those Christians who are alive (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

 

Now, if the ‘dead in Christ who did not receive the mark of the beast & were beheaded’ rising ‘after’ the Great Tribulation in Revelation 20:4 – 6 is ‘another resurrection’ different from the ‘dead in Christ Rise First’ (1 Thessalonians 4:16) which occurs ‘before the Rapture’ (1 Thessalonians 4:15), then Revelation 20:4 – 6 should be called the ‘Second Resurrection’ right? Contradiction again.

 

Regarding the quotes in image, please consider:

 

1) Shepherd of Hermas Quote in image

Among first Christianity writings, pre-tribulation rapture theorists claim that St. Irenaeous of Lyons, the Shepherd of Hermas and the Apocalypse of Elijah taught Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine. Is this true?

 

Too much details, but it is refuted in link below:

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159460167692784

 

 

2) St. Cyprian’s Quote in image

 

Blessed St. Cyprian is not teaching pre-tribulation rapture either in his quote in image but that it is better that one dies before the Great Tribulation occurs itself.

 

 

 

3) St. Ephrem’s quote in image

 

Even the Pseudo-Ephraim quote you have does not prove Rapture as it is not quoted in full nor accurately discussed with ‘other quotes’ from this same manuscript, to quote:

 

Pseudo-Ephraem teaches that Christians escape tribulation by death not rapture!

 

Saints escape tribulation by death not rapture:

 

“For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.” (Latin Pseudo-Ephraem)

 

or

 

“Pronouncing the good fortune of the deceased Who had avoided the calamity: ‘Blessed are you for you were borne away (to the grave) And hence you escaped from the afflictions!” (Syraic Pseudo-Ephraem)

 

Source (with detailed explanation):

 

https://www.bible.ca/rapture-pseudo-ephraem-latin-syraic-texts.htm

 

 

 

Conclusion

 

If any of these quotes mean as they are misrepresented or ‘not accurately translated’ as demonstrated in that book in image, then the Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox themselves who revere these writings will have at least some pre-tribulation rapture believers among them which is certainly not the case either as discussed in posts below:

 

  1. i) Sola Scriptura – No [Pre-Tribulation] Rapture Theory in Christianity

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159455296362784

 

  1. ii) Did St. Ireneaous of Lyons believe in Pre-Tribulation Rapture?

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159508215297784

 

iii) Rapture before the Tribulation?

https://christianitymalaysia.com/wp/rapture-before-tribulation/

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sadhu Sundar Singh – A Mysterious Christian

 

  1. Regarding Sundar Singh’s Gift of Spiritual Ecstasy

 

“… To the Sadhu, as has been already indicated, the great source of illumination, solace and physical refreshment is the recurrent state of Ecstasy in which he feels him

self caught up to what he believes to be the place alluded to by St. Paul as “the third heaven” (II Cor. xii. 2). “I never try to go into Ecstasy; nor do I advise other people to try. It is a gift to be accepted, but it should not be sought; if given, it is a pearl of great price. During the fourteen years of my life as a sadhu there have been many times when, suffering from hunger, thirst or persecution, I might have been tempted to give it up but for the gift of these times of Ecstasy, but these I would not give up for the whole world. Clearly, a study of the Sadhu s religion would be gravely misleading which did not include an account of experiences to which he himself attaches such importance. Equally clearly the attempt to give one raises grave difficulties. Educated people, unless indeed they have studied the lives of the Mystics, are apt to question the mental balance of any one who not only sees Visions, but takes them seriously. The uneducated, on the other hand, especially in the East, may be inclined to regard both the seer and his revelations with that kind of superstitious veneration which the Sadhu himself is studiously anxious to preclude. The Sadhu is quite alive to the danger. In public addresses he never alludes to his Visions ; he only mentions them, and that but rarely, when speaking to friends whose discernment and discretion he trusts. Giving an explanation of a certain religious difficulty 1 he remarked, “This is a thing I often say in preaching, but I never say that I heard it in an Ecstasy, because people would not understand what I meant without long and elaborate explanation.” Similarly, after attempting to give us an account of the things he had seen, he explained St. Paul s reticence about what he saw in the Third Heaven. “St. Paul was afraid people would misunderstand his meaning; and that is why he spoke of the experience as if it had been not his own but somebody elses, saying, I know a man in Christ who/ This was because he knew that, if he spoke of the Visions as his own, people would have come and bothered him by asking foolish questions, and would have misunderstood the answers he had given them.” . . . “lie was very wise not to try and tell them,” added the Sadhu, with a smile that possibly expressed a half misgiving that he had been wiser had he imitated the Apostle’s silence. …” – The Message of Sundar Singh (Pages 86 – 87)

 

Source:

 

https://archive.org/stream/themessageofsadh00streuoft/themessageofsadh00streuoft_djvu.txt

 

 

 

 

  1. Sundar Singh doesn’t like to talk about the miracles much – Why?

 

“… his ministry was accompanied by very spectacular miracles, he did not pay much attention … Sundar Singh decided to stop exercising the gift, as ‘it would encourage superstition and distract from the Gospel … ” Simon Chan’s Book Titled (Pentecostal Theology and the Christian Spiritual Tradition, Page 66)

 

Source:

 

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=9781610970846&i=stripbooks&linkCode=qs

 

Many people claim to have experienced miracles but not many have a person who once was their enemy or tried to kill them testify to it. Example: His own brother Rajender Singh who once tried to kill him testified to ‘many miracles’ God has Done through Sadhu Sundar Singh:

 

“… He asked that whosoever is the ‘True God’ would appear before him, or else he would kill himself; that very night he had a vision of Jesus. Sundar announced to his father, Sher Singh, that henceforth he would get converted into the missionary work of Christ. His father officially rejected him, and his brother Rajender Singh attempted to poison him. He was not poisoned just once but a number of times. People of that area threw snakes in his house, but he was rescued from mistreatment by the help of a nearby British Christian. … In the early 1940s, Bishop Augustine Peters, another converted missionary from South India, sought out Singh’s brother Rajender, led him to the Christian faith and baptised him in Punjab. Rajender Singh referred to many reputed miracles performed by Singh and people converted to Christ under his ministry …” – Wikipedia

 

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadhu_Sundar_Singh

 

 

Conclusion – Art of Perfection of Faith

Why do I believe in Blessed Sadhu Sundar Singh’s Spirit World Visions?

 

Among some of the modern times who have claimed to have seen Christ, he is one of the only ones I know of who did not carry any money at all and did not live by a support of any Church truly just walking out & living the Gospel as per Christ’s Perfection Command (Matthew 19:21) as Fulfilled by His Apostles too (Matthew 19:27 – 30) with plenty of miracles before disappearing into the Himalayas never to be seen again (no cult leader or heretic can ever imitate ‘no money, no support sincere faith lifestyle’):

 

“… Or perhaps it is partly the result of still living in the body, but I wish it were not so. Before the fast, I suffered also from other temptations. When suffering from hunger and thirst, I used to complain, and to ask why the Lord did not provide. He had told me not to take any money with me. If I had taken money I could have bought what I needed. Since the fast, however, when overtaken by physical hardships, I say, It is my Father’s will, perhaps I have done something to deserve it. Again before the fast, I was sometimes tempted to give up the life of a sadhu with its hardships, to go back to the luxury of my father s house, to get married and live in comfort. Could I not be a good Christian and live a life of communion with God there also? But then I saw that, though it was no sin for others to live in com fort and have money and home, God s call for me was different; and the gift of Ecstasy which he had given me is better than any home. Here I find wonderful joys which transcend all others. My real marriage is with Christ. I do not say that marriage is not good for others. If I am already bound to Christ, how can I marry another ? …” – Blessed Sadhu Sundar Singh (Pages 23 – 24)

 

Source [The Message of Sundar Singh]:

 

https://archive.org/stream/themessageofsadh00streuoft/themessageofsadh00streuoft_djvu.txt

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Third Heaven Mystery

 

Question

 

Apostle Paul said that he ‘knew a man who was caught up in the Third Heaven’ clearly referring to someone else and not himself in 2 Corinthians 12:2. So, how can Sadhu Sundar Singh be telling that it was Apostle Paul himself?

 

Reply

 

If Sadhu Sundar Singh lied, then all these Great Christians of First Christianity lied to regarding the claim that ‘it was actually Apostle Paul himself’. to quote (please compare these):

 

1) Blessed Sadhu Sundar Singh

 

“… To the Sadhu, as has been already indicated, the great source of illumination, solace and physical refreshment is the recurrent state of Ecstasy in which he feels him self caught up to what he believes to be the place alluded to by St. Paul as “the third heaven” (II Cor. xii. 2). “I never try to go into Ecstasy; nor do I advise other people to try. It is a gift to be accepted, but it should not be sought; … Similarly, after attempting to give us an account of the things he had seen, he explained St. Paul’s reticence about what he saw in the Third Heaven. “St. Paul was afraid people would misunderstand his meaning; and that is why he spoke of the experience as if it had been not his own but somebody elses, saying, I know a man in Christ who/ This was because he knew that, if he spoke of the Visions as his own, people would have come and bothered him by asking foolish questions, and would have misunderstood the answers he had given them.” . . . “lie was very wise not to try and tell them,” added the Sadhu, with a smile that possibly expressed a half misgiving that he had been wiser had he imitated the Apostle’s silence. …” – The Message of Sundar Singh (Pages 86 – 87)

 

Source:

 

https://archive.org/stream/themessageofsadh00streuoft/themessageofsadh00streuoft_djvu.txt

 

 

 

 

2) Blessed St. John Chrysostom

 

“… Wherefore also he goes on to say, Of such an one will I glory; not meaning that he who was caught up was some other person, but he so frames his language in the best manner he possibly could, so as at once to mention the fact, and to avoid speaking of himself openly. For what sequence would there be in bringing some one else forward, when discoursing about himself? Wherefore then did he so put it? It was not all one to say, ‘I was caught up,’ and, I knew one that was caught up; and ‘I will glory of myself,’ and, I will glory of such an one. Now if any should say, ‘And how is it possible to be caught up without a body?’ I will ask him, ‘How is it possible to be caught up with a body?’ for this is even more inexplicable than the other, if you examine by reasonings and do not give place to faith. 2. But wherefore was he also caught up? As I think, that he might not seem to be inferior to the rest of the Apostles. For since they had companied with Christ, but Paul had not: He therefore caught up unto glory him also. Into Paradise. For great was the name of this place, and it was everywhere celebrated. Wherefore also Christ said, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise. Luke 23:43. On behalf of such an one will I glory? wherefore? For if another were caught up, wherefore do you glory? Whence it is evident that he said these things of himself. And if he added, but of myself I will not glory, he says nothing else than this, that, ‘when there is no necessity, I will say nothing of that kind fruitlessly and at random;’ or else he is again throwing obscurity over what he had said, as best he might. For that the whole discourse was about himself, what follows also clearly shows; for he went on to say, “But if I should even desire to glory, I shall not be foolish; for I shall speak the truth”. …” – Blessed St. John Chrysostom, Archbishop of Constantinople, Doctor of the Church, one of the Three Holy Hierarchs (c. 349 AD – c. 407 AD, Commentary on 2 Corinthians 12:2 – 6)

 

Source:

 

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/2-corinthians/st-john-chrysostom-on-2-corinthians/chapter-2/chapter-3/chapter-4/chapter-5/chapter-6/chapter-7/chapter-8/chapter-9/chapter-10/chapter-11/chapter-12

 

3) Direct Disciples of the Blessed Apostles and Blessed St. Ireneaous of Lyons

 

“… 1. [In order to learn] that bodies did continue in existence for a lengthened period, as long as it was God’s good pleasure that they should flourish, let [these heretics] read the Scriptures, and they will find that our predecessors advanced beyond seven hundred, eight hundred, and nine hundred years of age; and that their bodies kept pace with the protracted length of their days, and participated in life as long as God willed that they should live. But why do I refer to these men? For Enoch, when he pleased God, was translated in the same body in which he did please Him, thus pointing out by anticipation the translation of the just. Elijah, too, was caught up [when he was yet] in the substance of the [natural] form; thus exhibiting in prophecy the assumption of those who are spiritual, and that nothing stood in the way of their body being translated and caught up. For by means of the very same hands through which they were moulded at the beginning, did they receive this translation and assumption. For in Adam the hands of God had become accustomed to set in order, to rule, and to sustain His own workmanship, and to bring it and place it where they pleased. Where, then, was the first man placed? In paradise certainly, as the Scripture declares “And God planted a garden [paradisum] eastward in Eden, and there He placed the man whom He had formed.” And then afterwards when [man] proved disobedient, he was cast out thence into this world. Wherefore also the elders who were disciples of the apostles tell us that those who were translated were transferred to that place (for paradise has been prepared for righteous men, such as have the Spirit; in which place also Paul the apostle, when he was caught up, heard words which are unspeakable as regards us in our present condition ), and that there shall they who have been translated remain until the consummation [of all things], as a prelude to immortality. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, Hearer of St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smryna, who is also an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of the Blessed St. John the Apostle (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter V, Point 1)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html

 

Please notice carefully the phrases “… in which place also Paul the apostle, when he was caught up, heard words which are unspeakable as regards us in our present condition ) …” and “… Wherefore also the elders who were disciples of the apostles tell us that …” implies that this is not ‘St. Irenaeous’ opinion’ but something that was Taught directly by the very ‘direct disciples of the Blessed Apostles of Christ themselves’.

 

Therefore, I would learn to guard my tongue and be fascinated by this Mystery rather than risk ‘mouthing which can condemn me’. Indeed, such a Mystery fulfills the Verse below which clearly implies that ‘especially the Secret of the Kingdom of Heaven Type of Knowledge’ (was not Written in the Bible – for if it was so, it would not be a Secret but was Given to the Apostles & their most Trusted Successors):

 

“… “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. …” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 13:8, NKJV)

 

Another Example post discussing such ‘Secrets’ (it’s only a loss to those ‘who don’t know’ about it – we will see whether ‘all these Church Leaders of First Christianity lied or spoke the Truth’):

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159512904322784

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blessed St. Ignatius of Antioch the Disciple of Blessed St. John the Apostle

 

Who is he?

 

“… Ignatius of Antioch (/ɪɡˈneɪʃəs/; Greek: Ἰγνάτιος Ἀντιοχείας, Ignátios Antiokheías; died c. 108/140 AD),[3][4][7][8][9] also known as Ignatius Theophorus (Ιγνάτιος ὁ Θεοφόρος, Ignátios ho Theophóros, lit. “the God-bearing”) or Ignatius Nurono (lit. “The fire-bearer”), was an early Christian writer and bishop of Antioch. While en route to Rome, where he met his martyrdom, Ignatius wrote a series of letters. This correspondence now forms a central part of a later collection of works known to be authored by the Apostolic Fathers. He is considered to be one of the three most important of these, together with Pope Clement I and Polycarp. …” – Wikipedia

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch

 

Here are two rarely known quotes by Blessed St. Ignatius of Antioch which may point toward the Christ Centered Universalism Hope:

 

1) John 12:32 Meaning

 

“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (John 12:32, NASB)

 

Note: The actual Biblical Koine Greek Word for John 12:32 only has the phrase “Draw All” and not “Draw All Men” which implies a more wholistic impact of Christ’s Redemption toward Creation as well or it’s a shorthand to refer to “all men” (as it’s done say in possibly 1 Timothy 2:6, only God Alone knows which He Means) but Bible translators often translate it as “All Men” because that’s how even the “Apostolic Fathers” of the Church especially the ones who were direct disciples of the Blessed Apostles of Christ Himself wrote it when quoting John 12:32 as seen in the example next.

 

Christ Draws (Drags as in Catching Fish in a Net as it means in Koine Greek) ‘All Men’ as St. Ignatius applies the General Word ‘Draw All’ or ‘Draw All things’ in John 12:32 to the Subset of ‘All Men’ as follows:

 

“… and once more, “If I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto Me [John 12:32].” The Word therefore did dwell in flesh, for “Wisdom built herself an house.” The Word raised up again His own temple on the third day, when it had been destroyed by the Jews fighting against Christ. The Word, when His flesh was lifted up, after the manner of the brazen serpent in the wilderness [John 3:14], drew all men to Himself for their eternal salvation [John 12:32]…” – Blessed St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, nicknamed ‘God-Bearing’, An Apostolic Father being the direct Disciple of the Blessed Apostle St. John, Martyr for Christ (c. 35 AD – c. 108 AD, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, Chapter II)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-smyrnaeans-longer.html

 

Please notice carefully that St. Ignatius mentions that this ‘Drawing of All [Men]’ by Christ in John 12:32 results in the Final Salvation of ‘All Men’, in his words, “… drew all men to Himself for their eternal salvation…” as Stated in a past tense Prophetically as a Done Reality to Him.

 

2) 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 Timothy 2:1 and 1 Timothy 4:10 meaning

 

Perfection of God Means God Saves ‘All Men’ eventually as Basic or General Salvation is likened to the ‘Rain falling both on the Just & Unjust’ and so ‘enmity on account of faith is with Love’

“… ” You ought therefore to “hate those that hate God, and to waste away [with grief] on account of His enemies.” I do not mean that you should beat them or persecute them, as do the Gentiles “that know not the Lord and God; ” but that you should regard them as your enemies, and separate yourselves from them, while yet you admonish them, and exhort them to repentance, if it may be they will hear, if it may be they will submit themselves. For our God is a lover of mankind, and “will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” [1 Timothy 2:4] Wherefore “He makes His sun to rise upon the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust; ” of whose kindness the Lord, wishing us also to be imitators, says, “Be ye perfect, even as also your Father that is in heaven is perfect.” [Matthew 5:44 – 48]…” – Blessed St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, nicknamed ‘God-Bearing’, An Apostolic Father being the direct Disciple of the Blessed Apostle St. John, Martyr for Christ (c. 35 AD – c. 108 AD, Epistle to the Philadelphians, Chapter III)

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-philadelphians-longer.html

Context: The phrase “… our God is a lover of mankind, and “will have all men to be saved … His sun to rise upon the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust; …even as also your Father that is in heaven is perfect…” clearly Proves that St. Ignatius Believes that ‘All Men’ (in the Context of ‘God being a Lover of Mankind’, hence it means all human beings ever created) will be Saved eventually (as Hebrews 2:8 also implies clearly regarding 1 Corinthian 15:24 – 28 toward His Enemies too as 1 Corinthians 15:25 Mentions).

 

Comment: The phrase “… By their subjection, conceived as already past, is expressed the immutable power of Christ: by their subjection, as future, is signified their consummation at the end of the ages as the result of the fulness of time…” in quote below proves that Christ’s Prophetic Words can Mean being Fulfilled (as a Done Reality to Him) in the Context of Subjecting All Things to Him even though it may not be Done yet in Time now (Hebrews 2:8 at the end).

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bible Story – Which Old Testament is most Accurate?

 

[Possible Doctrinal Changes are illustrated in Image as a comparison for the Hebrew Masoretic Text vs Greek Septuagint]

 

Note: I’m not Roman Catholic nor Eastern Orthodox and I do not Pray to Virgin Mary nor the Saints. However, God did use them to preserve Scripture and the ancient writings well for us to read it today in the same way God used the ‘unbelieving Jews’ to preserve Scripture as well.

 

However, the Verse below has prophesied that some Scribes would alter some words of the Original Hebrew Scripture:

 

“How can you say, ‘We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us’? Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood.” (Jeremiah 8:8, NKJV)

 

So, before condemning the Septuagint as corrupted (as the arguments can go both ways), please consider these facts:

 

  1. a) Christ quoted the Septuagint and not the Masoretic?

 

Comparison of slight differences in these Preserved Texts, please consider:

 

“… For those who may not know, the Septuagint was the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament. The common abbreviation for it—LXX, or the Roman numerals for 70—come from a legend that the first part of the Septuagint was done by 70 translators. By the first century, the LXX was the Bible of Greek-speaking Jews and so was the most frequently used version of the Old Testament in the early Church. … here is an example where the Greek gospels present Jesus as quoting the Septuagint: In Mark 7:6–7, Jesus quotes the LXX of Isaiah 29:13 when he says, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’” …”

 

Source: https://www.catholic.com/qa/in-which-passages-does-jesus-quote-the-septuagint-and-where-does-the-new-testament-allude-to-the

 

  1. b) Has ever the Septuagint proved more accurate than the Original Claimed “Masorectic ” Hebrew Text?

 

How is this possible? It is believed that the Hebrew Text used by the translators of the Septuagint may have used an ‘Earlier more reliable Original Hebrew Text’ where the later preserved one called the ‘Masoretic Text’ (used by say the King James Version translators) may have undergone some ‘edits’ as per Jeremiah 8:8’s Prophecy. Notice that the oldest Masoretic Texts only date to about 9th Century while the LXX or Septuagint are quoted by the New Testament authors too. Hence the Original Hebrew Text at the time of the New Testament could differ from the Masoretic Text in some parts as the Septuagint suggests but the debate is ongoing and no one can prove either way for certain.

 

Regarding the Masorectic Text:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoretic_Text

 

Regarding the Septuagint :

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint

 

Example, to quote:

 

“… An interesting case in point is the citation of Isa 7.14, the famous words of the prophet Isaiah to Ahaz, in Matt 1.23:

 

Hebrew: “Behold, the young woman [‘almah] shall conceive.”

 

Septuagint: “Behold, the virgin [parthenos] shall conceive.”

 

Matthew 1.23: “Behold, the virgin [parthenos] shall conceive.” …”

 

Source: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-is-the-septuagint/

 

Note: This was first pointed out by Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 3, Chapter IX, Point 2) in link below: Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html

 

  1. c) Why do the Eastern Orthodox Christians prefer the Septuagint?

 

http://orthochristian.com/81224.html

 

Continued from the above:

 

  1. d) Does the KJV have missing Verses too?

 

“… In addition to these intentional changes by Hebrew scribes, there also appear to be a number of accidental changes which they allowed to creep into the Hebrew text. For example, consider Psalm 145 . . . Psalm 145 is an acrostic poem. Each line of the Psalm starts with a successive letter of the Hebrew alphabet. Yet in the Masoretic Text, one of the lines is completely missing: Yet the Septuagint (LXX) Greek translation of the Old Testament does include the missing verse. And when that verse is translated back into Hebrew, it starts with the Hebrew letter נ (nun) which was missing from the Masoretic Text. In the early 20th century, the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in caves near Qumran. They revealed an ancient Hebrew textual tradition which differed from the tradition preserved by the Masoretes. Written in Hebrew, copies of Psalm 145 were found which include the missing verse: The missing verse reads, “The Lord is faithful in His words and holy in all His works.” This verse can be found in the Orthodox Study Bible, which relies on the Septuagint. But this verse is absent from the King James Version (KJV), the New King James Version (NKJV), the Complete Jewish Bible, and every other translation which is based on the Masoretic Text….”

 

Source:

 

https://theorthodoxlife.wordpress.com/2012/03/12/masoretic-text-vs-original-hebrew/

 

  1. e) Testimony of the Masoretic Jewish Scribes themselves

 

“… Many people believe that the ancient Hebrew text of Scripture was divinely preserved for many centuries, and was ultimately recorded in what we now call the “Masoretic Text”. But what did the Masoretes themselves believe? Did they believe they were perfectly preserving the ancient text? Did they even think they had received a perfect text to begin with? History says “no” . . .Scribal emendations – Tikkune Soferim . Early rabbinic sources, from around 200 CE, mention several passages of Scripture in which the conclusion is inevitable that the ancient reading must have differed from that of the present text. . . . Rabbi Simon ben Pazzi (3rd century) calls these readings “emendations of the Scribes” (tikkune Soferim; Midrash Genesis Rabbah xlix. 7), assuming that the Scribes actually made the changes. This view was adopted by the later Midrash and by the majority of Masoretes. In other words, the Masorites themselves felt they had received a partly corrupted text. A stream cannot rise higher than its source. If the texts they started with were corrupted, then even a perfect transmission of those texts would only serve to preserve the mistakes. Even if the Masoretes demonstrated great care when copying the texts, their diligence would not bring about the correction of even one error. …”

 

Source:

 

https://theorthodoxlife.wordpress.com/2012/03/12/masoretic-text-vs-original-hebrew/

 

  1. f) Excluding Books of Scripture from the Old Testament

 

“… The Masoretic Text promotes a canon of the Old Testament which is significantly shorter than the canon represented by the Septuagint. Meanwhile, Orthodox Christians and Catholics have Bibles which incorporate the canon of the Septuagint. The books of Scripture found in the Septuagint, but not found in the Masoretic Text, are commonly called either the Deuterocanon or the anagignoskomena. While it is outside the scope of this article to perform an in-depth study of the canon of Scripture, a few points relevant to the Masoretic Text should be made here: With the exception of two books, the Deuterocanon was originally written in Hebrew. In three places, the Talmud explicitly refers to the book of Sirach as “Scripture”. Jesus celebrated Hanukkah, a feast which originates in the book of 1 Maccabees, and nowhere else in the Old Testament. The New Testament book of Hebrews recounts the stories of multiple Old Testament saints, including a reference to martyrs in the book of 2 Maccabees. The book of Wisdom includes a striking prophecy of Christ, and its fulfillment is recorded in Matthew 27. Numerous findings among the Dead Sea Scrolls suggest the existence of 1st century Jewish communities which accepted many of the Deuterocanonical books as authentic Scripture. Many thousands of 1st-century Christians were converts from Judaism. The early Church accepted the inspiration of the Deuterocanon, and frequently quoted authoritatively from books such as Wisdom, Sirach, and Tobit. This early Christian practice suggests that many Jews accepted these books, even prior to their conversion to Christianity. Ethiopian Jews preserved the ancient Jewish acceptance of the Septuagint, including much of its canon of Scripture. Sirach, Judith, Baruch, and Tobit are among the books included in the canon of the Ethiopian Jews.

These reasons, among others, suggest the existence of a large 1st-century Jewish community which accepted the Deuterocanon as inspired Scripture. …”

 

Source:

 

https://theorthodoxlife.wordpress.com/2012/03/12/masoretic-text-vs-original-hebrew/

 

 

  1. g) Testimony of Blessed St. Justin Martyr

 

“… In the 2nd century A.D., hundreds of years before the time of the Masoretes, Justin Martyr investigated a number of Old Testament texts in various Jewish synagogues. He ultimately concluded that the Jews who had rejected Christ had also rejected the Septuagint, and were now tampering with the Hebrew Scriptures themselves:

 

“But I am far from putting reliance in your teachers, who refuse to admit that the interpretation made by the seventy elders who were with Ptolemy [king] of the Egyptians is a correct one; and they attempt to frame another. And I wish you to observe, that they have altogether taken away many Scriptures from the [Septuagint] translations effected by those seventy elders who were with Ptolemy, and by which this very man who was crucified is proved to have been set forth expressly as God, and man, and as being crucified, and as dying” (~150 A.D., Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, Chapter LXXI)

 

If Justin Martyr’s findings are correct, then it is likely that the Masoretes inherited a Hebrew textual tradition which had already been corrupted with an anti-Christian bias. …”

 

Source:

 

https://theorthodoxlife.wordpress.com/2012/03/12/masoretic-text-vs-original-hebrew/

 

 

  1. h) Example of Differences

 

“… I offer here ten New Testament quotes in which the Jewish Septuagint most directly contradicts the new Masoretic version:

Matthew in 1:23 of his gospel quoted the pivotal prophecy of Isaiah 7:14 that the “virgin” will conceive a child, referring to Jesus. As the Masorete scholars had it, a “maiden” will conceive, avoiding the obvious Hebrew word for “virgin.”

 

In Luke 4:18, Jesus quotes the crucial gospel passage of Isaiah 61:1, “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me to preach the gospel to the poor …” As Jesus quotes it and as the Jewish Septuagint reads, this passage includes “recovering of sight to the blind,” a phrase the Masoretes did not include in their text. Then as Jesus quotes it and as the Jewish Septuagint reads, the verse ends with, “let the oppressed go free.” The Masoretic ends instead with, “release to the prisoners.”

 

In Acts 7:14, Luke quotes the Jewish Septuagint saying Jacob had 75 descendents. The Masorete compilers gave him 70 descendents in their version.

 

In Acts 15:16-18, James the brother of Jesus quotes Amos 9:11-12 from the Jewish Septuagint, stating that other nations than Israel may seek the Lord. The Masoretes rendered Amos 9:11-12 as saying the house of David (Israel) will possess the nations, entirely robbing the text of the meaning which James quoted.

 

In Romans 9:33, Paul quotes Isaiah 28:16 of the Jewish Septuagint. In this crucial passage, holy scripture calls Jesus the foundation stone which God lays in Zion, then, “whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame.” In contrast, the Masoretes rendered the stone not as a person in Whom one should trust. Instead, their version makes the stone a promise from God followed with, “one who trusts will not panic.”

 

In the great gospel passage of Romans ten, Paul in 10:15 quotes Isaiah 52:7 of the Jewish Septuagint in which a messenger announces “the gospel” or “good news,” literally “evangelion.” The Masoretic does not announce good news or gospel, but peace. While peace is certainly good news, Paul has distinctly quoted the Jewish Septuagint in contrast with the text which the Masoretes developed centuries after his death.

Five verses later in Romans 10:20, Paul returns to the Jewish Septuagint of Isaiah 65:1-2. As Paul quotes the Septuagint, God is found by people who did not look for Him. Those people in Paul’s version are Gentiles. The Masoretic of Isaiah 65:1-2 only indicates God is ready for Israel to find Him. Masorete scholars gave no place to Gentiles in their new version of Isaiah 65:1-2.

In the very next verse, Paul quotes the Jewish Septuagint of Isaiah 11:10 including, “the One who rises to rule.” Again, these words do not exist in the Old Testament offered later on by Masoretic Jews.

 

The first epistle of Peter stands out by containing more Old Testament references per verse than any other New Testament writing. Peter’s emphasis in the letter is Psalm 33. Not one of his references reflect the Masoretic version.

 

In Revelation 2:26-27, Jesus quotes Psalm two, the great Psalm of the Christos or Christ King. Jesus in verse 26 promises to extend His own power over the nations to the believer who endures to the end, then in verse 27 as He quotes Psalm 2:9 and the early Jewish Septuagint reads, He will “rule” the nations. The Masoretes rendered Psalm 2:9 as, “break” the nations. Again in the visions of Revelation 12:5 and 19:15 John quotes the Jewish Septuagint of Psalm 2:9, prophecying Jesus will “rule,” not “break” them with His rod of iron. …”

Source: http://www.matthewbryan.net/lxx3.html

 

  1. i) Example of a free online Septuagint Translation of the Old Testament [Brenton Septuagint Translation]

 

https://biblehub.com/sep/

 

  1. j) Isaiah 9 Comparison

To quote:

“… THE ISAIAHINE COMMA

  1. Returning to the topic at hand, I offer the earliest extant quotes of the questioned passage in Isaiah 9. The Masoretic states, “his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” The Septuagint reads, “His name shall be called Messenger of great wisdom, for I will bring peace upon the rulers, peace and health by Him.” The first and last titles (Wonderful Counselor and Prince of Peace) pose less of a problem. Where the Septuagint says “messenger of great wisdom,” we see a translation of words for “counselor” would roughly equate to “messenger of wisdom,” and “wonderful” roughly equates with “great.” Likewise where the Masoretic states “prince of peace,” we find in the Septuagint ends with, “peace and health by Him,” a very rough equivalence which could be explained by the translation process.

 

  1. The middle phrase remains the greatest discrepancy between the Jewish Septuagint and not only the Masoretic, but also the Peshitta and the Vulgate. The Masoretic, the Peshitta, and the Vulgate all finish the sentence as a series of titles. The Septuagint sees “Messenger of great wisdom” as the final title of the promised Son, followed with the words, “for I will bring peace upon the rulers …”

 

  1. Justin Martyr in “Dialogue with Trypho” circa AD 150 referred to Jesus as the Angel of Mighty Counsel. “Angel” in Greek is the same word as “messenger,” thus Justin’s use favors the Septuagint. Justin provided our earliest known quote of the passage. One earlier quote is attributed to Ignatius, but in a spurious letter addressed to Antioch and not in any of his authentic works.
  2. Irenaeus of Lugdunum, a few decades after Justin, added various words on various occassions so that we cannot accuse him of quoting the verse in its entirety, but we do see coincidences with the alternate form. Perhaps Irenaeus had read and been influenced by the alternate form. In “Against Heresies” 3.16.3, he called Jesus, “the messenger of great counsel of the Father.” In 3.20.2 of the same work, “the holy Lord, the Wonderful, the Counselor, the Beautiful in appearance, and the Mighty God, coming on the clouds as the judge of all men.” As obviously as he had pulled together several passages in 3.20.2, he even more obviously pulls together multiple passages in 4.33.11, saying, “I came unto the prophetess; and she bare a son, and his name is called Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God.”3

 

  1. Clement of Alexandria, writing not long after Irenaeus, gave the earliest extant quote of the version of this verse which we find in the Masoretic, Peshitta, and the Vulgate. Even after Clement of Alexandria used the majority version, the Septuagint wording continued to be quoted. In the next 100 years, we get the Septuagint version from Origen, Cyprian, Peter of Alexandria, and Methodius.

 

TRINITY IN THE ISAIAHINE COMMA

If we lose an apparent affirmation of the Trinity in the Septuagint, the Septuagint replaces it with Amos 4:13. When Tertullian explained the Trinity early in the third century, he did not use Isaiah 9. Instead, Tertullian quoted Amos 4:13 from the Jewish Septuagint which says God, “creates the wind and announces to men His anointed.” Tertullian used the reference to God as the Father, rendering the “wind” or “Pneuma” in the Septuagint as the Spirit of God, and the “anointed” or “Christos” in the Greek as the Son. Notably, the Masoretic has God announcing His thoughts to man, not announcing His Christ/Anointed.

 

Finally, we might ask whether the majority wording of Isaiah 9 agrees with Christian doctrine. We do not generally call the Son the “Wonderful Counselor,” but typically reserve the title of “Counselor” for the Holy Spirit. Neither do we call Jesus, “Everlasting Father,” reserving the title of “Father” primarily for God the Father. If we must cling to the majority version of Isaiah 9, perhaps we should begin calling Jesus the eternal Father? Perhaps instead, this form of the verse which is found in all texts other than the Septuagint would actually fit better with modalism rather than orthodoxy? These are questions, not accusations, which I sincerely ask and for which I desire input from others. …”

Source: http://www.matthewbryan.net/lxx4.html

However, there Septuagint may Solve this difference by itself as follows, to quote:

“… It must also be noted that there is a longer version of Isaiah 9:6 within the Septuagint manuscript tradition which was the version quoted by a number of early Christians (though certainly not all). It reads:

“…He shall be called the angel of great counsel, God the mighty, the Father of the world to come, the prince of peace,” (Isaiah 9:6, some LXX manuscripts).3

 

Thus, even the Septuagint tradition, taken as a whole, does identify the Messiah as the “mighty God” and not merely a lesser messenger. …”

 

Source:

 

https://carm.org/does-the-septuagints-rendering-isaiah-9-6-vindicate-watchtower

So a ‘minority manuscript’ may not ‘necessarily’ mean that ‘that was not the more accurate Copy of the Original Truth’ as the ‘above minority Version of the Septuagint’ was quoted & used by these Great Names of First Christianity [Source Point 3 from the same source above]:

 

“… In addition to being found in a minority of Septuagint manuscripts, the is the version quoted in sources like: Athanasius, On Luke 10:22, Chapter 5; Pseudo-Ignatius, Epistle to the Antiochians, Chapter 3; Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, Book 5, Section 3; John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians, Homily 6; John Cassian, Against Nestorius On the Incarnation of the Lord, Book 2, Chapter 3 (also in book 7, chapter 10); Theodoret, Counter Statements to the Anathemas of Cyril, Against Anathema 6; Leo the Great, Letter to Flavian (or “the Tome”), Section 2; and others. It seems to be the version possessed by Irenaeus of Lyons in the late second century, who cites both titles ‘messenger of great counsel’ and ‘mighty God’ in Against Heresies, Book 4, Chapter 33, Section 11, etc. …”

 

Source: https://carm.org/does-the-septuagints-rendering-isaiah-9-6-vindicate-watchtower

  1. k) The Incarnation Passage

 

To quote:

 

“… But there are a couple times when it’s nearly irrefutable that Jesus Himself used the Greek version. For example:

 

Hebrews 10:5-7 and the Incarnation – The most important passage to know on the question of Jesus’ use of the Greek version of Scripture is Hebrews 10:5-7, which says:

 

5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,

but a body you prepared for me;

6with burnt offerings and sin offerings

you were not pleased.

7Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—

I have come to do your will, O God.’ “

 

Even the NIV notes that this is a quotation from the Greek version of Psalm 40:6-8. Here’s why that’s important. In the Hebrew versions, Psalm 40:6 says, “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced.” But all three major Greek versions, the Septuagint, Symmachus and Theodotion translations, list it as “a Body You prepared for Me.” What may have happened, as one author explores here, is that the Hebrew expression is an obscure idiom, and the Greek translations were intentionally non-literal. The theory is that since slaves often wore an earring showing who their master was in the Near East, that offering your ears to God could mean either listening or offering your whole body.

 

Now, if Psalm 40:6 is a prophesy of Christ, it’s not because God opened His ears, but because Jesus is God-in-the-flesh, with a Body prepared for Him by His Father. So how and why the Greek and MT versions came to be distinct isn’t particularly important, compared to the fact that (a) they are distinct, and (b) Hebrews 10:5 only makes sense with the Greek. Significantly, the author of Hebrews isn’t just saying that the Greek version of the Psalm is a prophesy of Christ. He’s saying that Jesus Himself said it was. …”

 

Source:

 

https://shamelesspopery.com/did-jesus-use-the-greek-version-of-the-bible/

 

  1. l) Lord Jesus Christ Himself – did He Choose the Septuagint over the Hebrew Masoretic Text?

 

Compare:

 

“6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.” (Mark 7:6 – 9, KJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/kjv/mark/7.htm

 

“Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:” (Isaiah 29:13, KJV, based on the Masoretic Text)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/isaiah/29-13.htm

 

“13And the Lord has said, This people draw nigh to me with their mouth, and they honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me: but in vain do they worship me, teaching the commandments and doctrines of men.” (Isaiah 29:13, Brenton Septuagint Translation, based on the Septuagint)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/isaiah/29.htm

 

Example Analysis, to quote:

 

“… Jesus quotes the LXX version of Isaiah 29:13 in Mark 7:6-8; the MT version says “their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men,” with no reference to the worship being vain; the LXX version says “They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.” Jesus chooses the LXX, which makes a difference. The context of Mark 7 is not on worship, but on the way they’re living and expecting others to live (ceremonial washing before eating, the Corban, etc.), so the MT version of Isaiah 29:13 doesn’t fit very well, while the LXX version is directly on point, since it deals with both vain worship and teachings. In Matthew 21:16, Jesus asks, “have you never read, ‘From the lips of children and infants, you have ordained praise’?” That’s the Greek version. The Hebrew version says “ordained strength.” And note that Jesus is responding to the chief priests and scribes of Jerusalem, who were upset at the children praising Jesus, “Hosanna to the Son of David” (Matthew 21:15). …”

 

Source:

https://shamelesspopery.com/did-jesus-use-the-greek-version-of-the-bible/

 

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Isaiah 9:6 – Olam Ha Ba Mystery Pointing to the Messianic Age to Come?

 

Olam (Hebrew) = Age/Ages (English) = Aeon/Aeons (Koine Greek)

 

And so, perhaps Isaiah 9:6 points to Christ being the “Father of the Age (Aeon/Olam) to Come” signifying the Beginning of His Messianic Reign for that ‘1000 years’ (Revelation 20:4 – 6) which then extends into the “Ages (Aeons)” (Ephesians 2:7) with “no end” (Ages/Aeons extending forever, Luke 1:33)?

 

Let’s see the Various Textual Variants of Isaiah 9:6 and please note that the word translated as “everlasting” is the Hebrew “Olam” (Greek-Aeon(s), English-Age(s)):

 

  1. i) KJV and the Masoretic Text

 

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6, KJV, based on the Masoretic Text whose earliest Texts only date to the 9th century, about a thousand years after Christ)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/isaiah/9-6.htm

 

  1. ii) Majority Septuagint Translation

 

“6For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.” (Isaiah 9:6, Brenton Septuagint Translation, based on the ‘Majority LXX’ or Septuagint which are generally dated to about 1st – 2nd Century BC, i.e. about at least 100 to 200 years before Christ)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/isaiah/9.htm

 

Note: “LXX” is an abbreviation for the “Septuagint”.

 

Here are more rarely known translations or textual variants:

 

iii) Minority Septuagint Translations

 

“He shall be called the angel of great counsel, God the mighty, the Father of the world to come, the prince of peace,” (Isaiah 9:6, some LXX manuscripts, about 100 to 200 years BC or before Christ).

 

Source: https://carm.org/does-the-septuagints-rendering-isaiah-9-6-vindicate-watchtower

 

Note: the phrase “world to come” is a traditional Jewish Phrase (‘Olam Ha-ba’) indicating the ‘Messianic Reign’, hence it is more accurately, “age to come” or “aeon to come” as Christ Himself used this phrase in Mark 10:30 or Luke 18:30 pointing to His 1000 Year Reign distinctly as the “First Resurrection” (Revelation 20:4 – 6). This particular aspect is discussed further in link below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159511823387784:0

 

Here is an interesting comment for further edification:

 

“… There is also, following the statement “I will bring peace to the rulers” in v. 6, and preceding “peace and health to him,” the insertion in some Septuagint manuscripts of a close and accurate translation of the traditional Hebrew text:

 

“Wonderful advisor, strong God, authority, ruler of peace, father of the coming age”

 

According to the editions of Rahlfs and of Swete in their notes on Isaiah 9:5 (6), this insertion is found (with some variations) in Septuagint manuscripts A, Aleph, Q, Gamma, the Lucian recension of the Septuagint, and Origen’s Hexapla (in this latter, being marked with an asterisk indicating that it is a non-original part of the Septuagint but is a later insertion). No doubt other manuscripts read the same. This, if I understand the situation correctly, means that the supplementary words—essentially a literal translation added as a correction or alternate (and improved) translation of the eight-part “name” of the Messiah which the LXX failed to adequately and accurately translate—is an insertion (and marked as such) made by Origen and his co-laborers into the original LXX text in the massive 6-columned “Hexapla” OT edition.

And, be it noted that we know how the three now-mostly-lost Jewish LXX revisions made in the 2nd century A.D.—those of Aquila, Symmachus and Theodotion (which together occupied three of the six columns of the Hexapla)—translated this verse. Swete gives their translations, as preserved in the margin of manuscript Q, in his notes to v. 5 [6] (which see). The revised “Septuagint” insertion agrees quite closely with Aquila’s rendering, and only slightly less so with Theodotion, and Symmachus, all of which to varying degrees improve on what the LXX here left so poor. None of these—Aquila, Symmachus, Theodotion or Origen’s “revised LXX”— were available for quoting or consultation in the first century A.D. …”

Source:

https://sharperiron.org/article/isaiah-96-7-hebrew-text-ancient-versions

Comment: Please notice the phrase “father of the coming age” referring to Christ in some LXX of Isaiah 9:6 which agrees to the Messianic 1000 year reign of Christ view in the Coming Age/Aeon/Olam as per Revelation 20:4 – 6. Perhaps the Bible Verses are pointing to accuracy when an “Age/Aeon/Olam” is mentioned highlighting “God’s Plan of the Ages/Aeons/Olams” such as the phrases and description found in “not only in this age [Aeon/Olam] but also in that which is to come.” (Ephesians 1:21, NKJV) or “that in the ages [Aeons, Olams] to come” (Ephesians 2:7, NKJV) where His Intention is to Gather all things in Christ but Christians are more special (as Ephesians 1:9 – 12 describes, an example).

 

  1. iv) Christian OT translation: the Peshitta Syriac version

 

“For the child was born to us, the son was given to us. And his authority was upon his shoulder, and his name was called the wonder and the advisor, the mighty God of the ages (or, forever), the prince of peace. For the multiplying of his authority and for his peace there is no end. Upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom so that he may establish it and sustain it with the judgment and in the righteousness from then and until for ever. The zeal of the Lord the mighty one did this.” (Isaiah 9:6 – 7, The Peshitta Syriac version, made directly from the Hebrew text but in consultation with the Septuagint Greek version, and in its present form dating to perhaps the 3rd or 4th century A.D.)

Source:

 

https://sharperiron.org/article/isaiah-96-7-hebrew-text-ancient-versions

The authour in that Source adds, ‘… The eight-fold “name” of the Messiah is given literally (except for “father of eternity”). It is evident here that the Peshitta was influenced by neither the original form of the Septuagint nor by the Targum. Influence from Aquila, et al. is naturally a possibility, even perhaps a probability. …’.

Comment: The brackets found here () or [] are either ‘added by the various authors’ or by ‘me’ too. The original translation of these texts are the words ‘without the brackets’. Please take note.

 

Note: The phrase “God of the ages” = “God of the Ages/Aeons/Olams” signifying the ‘unending ages’ again here.

 

  1. v) Christian OT translation: Jerome’s Latin Vulgate translation

 

“For a CHILD IS BORN to us, and a son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counsellor, God the Mighty, Father of the world to come (or, the future age), the Prince of Peace. His empire shall be multiplied, and there shall be no end of peace: he shall sit upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom; to establish it with judgment and with justice, from henceforth and for ever: the zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.” (Isaiah 9:6 – 7, the Latin Vulgate translation of Jerome, dating to circa 400 A.D.)

 

Source:

 

https://sharperiron.org/article/isaiah-96-7-hebrew-text-ancient-versions

 

The authour in that Source adds, ‘… Jerome’s independent knowledge of Hebrew, as well as his knowledge of the contents of the Hexapla no doubt guided him away from the Septuagint’s inaccurate version (which he also knew) to a more accurate representation of the Hebrew. It is immediately evident that these latter two Christian translations, the Peshitta Syriac and the Latin Vulgate, both made from the Hebrew text (though no doubt with consultation of the Septuagint and likely other Greek versions) more faithfully render this passage, especially the latter part of v. 6, than did the pre-Christian Septuagint on the one hand, and the paraphrastic, interpretive Targum Jonathan on the other. …’.

 

Note: Even in Blessed St. Jerome’s translation, we find the more accurate phrase “… Father of the world to come (or, the future age) …” as per the ‘minority LXX/Septuagint translations’ as per point “iii)” earlier implying a more accurate ‘Christ’s Messianic Reign Focus first for the thousand years’ well into eternity implied intrinsically in each of these accurate translations by the equivalent phrase “… His empire shall be multiplied, and there shall be no end of peace …” here.

 

Conclusion – Testimony of the Church Fathers

 

Which translation of Isaiah 9:6 do some of the most accurate “Earliest” Church Fathers refer to as possibly the Original?

 

 

 

 

 

According to CARM (a famous Christian Apologetic Site), this ‘Minority Septuagint Translation’ which Preserves the Hidden Meaning of the Most Blessed Trinity as per point “iii)” earlier was Testified to be used by the following Church Leaders, to quote:

 

“… In addition to being found in a minority of Septuagint manuscripts, the is the version quoted in sources like: Athanasius, On Luke 10:22, Chapter 5; Pseudo-Ignatius, Epistle to the Antiochians, Chapter 3; Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, Book 5, Section 3; John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians, Homily 6; John Cassian, Against Nestorius On the Incarnation of the Lord, Book 2, Chapter 3 (also in book 7, chapter 10); Theodoret, Counter Statements to the Anathemas of Cyril, Against Anathema 6; Leo the Great, Letter to Flavian (or “the Tome”), Section 2; and others. It seems to be the version possessed by Irenaeus of Lyons in the late second century, who cites both titles ‘messenger of great counsel’ and ‘mighty God’ in Against Heresies, Book 4, Chapter 33, Section 11, etc. …”

 

Source:

 

https://carm.org/does-the-septuagints-rendering-isaiah-9-6-vindicate-watchtower

 

 

I’m just going to give two quotes from the above which are sufficient as these are ‘Champions of Faith’ which no Christians will deny, please consider:

1) Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons

 

“… Again, there are those who say, “He is a man, and who shall know him? ” and, “I came unto the prophetess, and she bare a son, and His name is called Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God; ” and those [of them] who proclaimed Him as Immanuel, [born] of the Virgin, exhibited the union of the Word of God with His own workmanship, [declaring] that the Word should become flesh, and the Son of God the Son of man (the pure One opening purely that pure womb which regenerates men unto God, and which He Himself made pure); and having become this which we also are, He [nevertheless] is the Mighty God, and possesses a generation which cannot be declared. And there are also some of them who say, “The Lord hath spoken in Zion, and uttered His voice from Jerusalem; and, “In Judah is God known; ” -these indicated His advent which took place in Judea. Those, again, who declare that “God comes from the south, and from a mountain thick with foliage,” announced His advent at Bethlehem, as I have pointed out in the preceding book. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter 33, Section 11)

Source:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html

 

or from another Source below:

 

“… Again, there are those who say, “He is a man, and who shall know him?”4303 and, “I came unto the prophetess, and she bare a son, and His name is called Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God;”4304 and those [of them] who proclaimed Him as Immanuel, [born] of the Virgin, exhibited the union of the Word of God with His own workmanship, [declaring] that the Word should become flesh, and the Son of God the Son of man (the pure One opening purely that pure womb which regenerates men unto God, and which He Himself made pure); and having become this which we also are, He [nevertheless] is the Mighty God, and possesses a generation which cannot be declared. And there are also some of them who say, “The Lord hath spoken in Zion, and uttered His voice from Jerusalem;”4305 and, “In Judah is God known;”4306— these indicated His advent which took place in Judea. Those, again, who declare that “God comes from the south, and from a mountain thick with foliage,”4307 announced His advent at Bethlehem, as I have pointed out in the preceding book.4308 …”

Source [via the Infamous Protestant Historian Mr. Philip Schaff]:

 

https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01/anf01.ix.vi.xxxiv.html

 

Notes:

4303 Jer. xvii. 9 (LXX.). Harvey here remarks: “The LXX. read אֱנֹושׁ instead of אָנֹושׁ. Thus, from a text that teaches us that the heart is deceitful above all things, the Fathers extract a proof of the manhood of Christ.”

 

4304 Isa. viii. 3, Isa. ix. 6, Isa. vii. 14. [A confusion of texts.]

 

4305 Joel iii. 16.

 

4306 Ps. lxxvi. 1.

 

4307 Hab. iii. 3.

 

4308 See III. xx. 4.

 

 

 

 

 

2) Blessed St. Athanasius the Great

 

In his infamous quote below, St. Athanasius is clearly using this “LXX minority manuscript in iii) earlier” as the ‘Original Old Testament Scripture in his time for Isaiah 9:6 or Isa ix:6’ and further validates our usage that the phrase “Father of the Coming Age/Aeon/Olam” interpretation in light of His 1000 year Messianic Reign toward the “First resurrection” (Revelation 20:4 – 6, John 5:25) toward ‘Christians only’ as ‘possibly’ most accurate, to quote:

 

“… For His Only-begotten Son might, ye Arians, be called ‘Father’ by His Father, yet not in the sense in which you in your error might perhaps understand it, but (while Son of the Father that begat Him) ‘Father of the coming age’ (Isa. ix. 6, LXX). For it is necessary not to leave any of your surmises open to you. Well then, He says by the prophet, ‘A Son is born and given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Angel of Great Counsel, mighty God, Ruler, Father of the coming age’ (Isa. ix. 6). The Only-begotten Son of God, then, is at once Father of the coming age, and mighty God, and Ruler. And it is shewn clearly that all things whatsoever the Father hath are His, and that as the Father gives life, the Son likewise is able to quicken whom He will. For ‘the dead,’ He says, ‘shall hear the voice of the Son, and shall live’ (cf. John v. 25), and the will and desire of Father and Son is one, since their nature also is one and indivisible. …” – Blessed St. Athanasius the Great, the Father of Orthodoxy, Patriarch of Alexandria and Champion of Trinity, Doctor of the Church and Confessor, Coptic Pope (c. 296 AD – c. 373 AD, Commentary On Luke 10:22, Chapter 5)

 

Source [via the Infamous Protestant Historian Mr. Philip Schaff]:

https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204/npnf204.xi.ii.v.html

 

Note: Blessed St. Athanasius the Great’s Christ Centered Universalism Hope may be explored further in link below too:

 

https://salvationforall.org/7_History/4b-alexandria-athanasius.html

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mystery of the Most Blessed Holy Trinity

 

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” (1 Timothy 3:16,KJV)

 

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. … 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” (John 1:1, 14, KJV)

 

How do I believe and understand it?

As per these True First Christian Champions of Faith (listed next) but let’s see who are they first?

 

1) Blessed St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, nicknamed ‘God-Bearing’, An Apostolic Father being the direct Disciple of the Blessed Apostle St. John, Martyr for Christ (c. 35 AD – c. 108 AD)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch

 

2) Blessed St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smryna, an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of the Blessed St. John the Apostle (c. 69 AD – c. 155 AD)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarp

 

3) Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Martyr

 

4) Blessed St. Melito, Jewish Bishop of Sardis, of whom Polycrates of Ephesus to Pope Victor about 194 (Eusebius, Church History V.24) states that “Melito the eunuch [this is interpreted “the virgin” by Rufinus in his translation of Eusebius], whose whole walk was in the Holy Spirit”, was buried at Sardis and Jerome, speaking of the Old Testament canon established by Melito, quotes Tertullian to the effect that he was esteemed as a prophet by many of the faithful (Died c. 180 AD)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melito_of_Sardis

 

5) Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, Hearer of St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smryna, who is also an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of the Blessed St. John the Apostle (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus

 

6) Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria, Head of the Cathecathical School At Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_of_Alexandria

 

7) Blessed Tertullian (155 AD – 222 AD), the founder of Western theological scholarship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertullian

 

8) Blessed St. Hippolytus of Rome, Hearer of Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 170 AD –235 AD)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippolytus_of_Rome

 

9) Blessed Origen of Alexandria, the Great but surprisingly Modest Exegete of the Eastern Church, “Nicknamed: Admantius or Man of Steel”, Tortured and Martyred for Christ (c. 184 AD – c. 253 AD)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen

Note: NONE of these Church Fathers listed here has any prayer to Mary or equivalent in any of their writings. Please take note carefully and thus we need “not” practice those things at all to be like the ‘First Christians’. Are we supposed to Imitate their faith in Christ?

“Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.” (1 Corinthians 11:1, KJV)

 

“that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.” (Hebrews 6:12, NKJV)

“Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.” (Philippians 3:17, KJV)

 

“Therefore I exhort you, be imitators of me.” (1 Corinthians 4:16, NASB)

 

“Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.” (Philippians 4:9, KJV)

 

Conclusion

Example Quotes from them as ‘how to understand this Mystery (Secret) of the Most Holy Trinity’ accurately, to quote:

 

  1. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 50–117): For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God’s plan, both from the seed of David and of the Holy Spirit. (Ignatius, Letter to the Ephesians, 18.2. Translation from Michael Holmes, Apostolic Fathers, 197)

 

  1. Ignatius (again): Consequently all magic and every kind of spell were dissolved, the ignorance so characteristic of wickedness vanished, and the ancient kingdom was abolished when God appeared in human form to bring the newness of eternal life. (Ibid., 19.3. Holmes, AF, 199)

 

  1. Ignatius (again): For our God Jesus Christ is more visible now that he is in the Father. (Ignatius, Letter to the Romans, 3.3. Holmes, AF, 229)

 

  1. Ignatius (again): I glorify Jesus Christ, the God who made you so wise, for I observed that you are established in an unshakable faith, having been nailed, as it were, to the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ. (Ignatius, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 1.1. Holmes, AF, 249.)

 

  1. Ignatius (again): Wait expectantly for the one who is above time: the Eternal, the Invisible, who for our sake became visible; the Intangible, the Unsuffering, who for our sake suffered, who for our sake endured in every way. (Ignatius, Letter to Polycarp, 3.2. Holmes, AF, 265.)

 

  1. Polycarp of Smyrna (69–155): Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal high priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth . . ., and to us with you, and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead. (Polycarp, Philippians, 12:2. Holmes, AF, 295)

 

  1. Epistle of Barnabas (written c. 70–130): “If the Lord submitted to suffer for our souls, even though he is Lord of the whole world, to whom God said at the foundation of the world, “Let us make humankind according to our image and likeness,” how is it, then, that he submitted to suffer at the hands of humans?” (Epistle of Barnabas, 5.5. Holmes, AF, 393)

 

 

  1. Justin Martyr (100–165): And that Christ being Lord, and God the Son of God, and appearing formerly in power as Man, and Angel, and in the glory of fire as at the bush, so also was manifested at the judgment executed on Sodom, has been demonstrated fully by what has been said. (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 128. Translation from Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, Ante-Nicene Fathers, I:264)

 

  1. Justin (again): “Permit me first to recount the prophecies, which I wish to do in order to prove that Christ is called both God and Lord of hosts.” (Ibid., 36. ANF, I:212.)

 

  1. Justin (again): Therefore these words testify explicitly that He [Jesus] is witnessed to by Him [the Father] who established these things, as deserving to be worshipped, as God and as Christ. (Ibid., 63. ANF, I:229)

 

  1. Justin (again): The Father of the universe has a Son; who also, being the first-begotten Word of God, is even God. And of old He appeared in the shape of fire and in the likeness of an angel to Moses and to the other prophets; but now in the times of your reign, having, as we before said, become Man by a virgin . . .” (Justin Martyr, First Apology, 63. ANF, I:184)

 

  1. Justin (again): For if you had understood what has been written by the prophets, you would not have denied that He was God, Son of the only, unbegotten, unutterable God. (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 126. ANF, I:263)

 

  1. Melito of Sardis (d. c. 180): “He that hung up the earth in space was Himself hanged up; He that fixed the heavens was fixed with nails; He that bore up the earth was born up on a tree; the Lord of all was subjected to ignominy in a naked body – God put to death! . . . [I]n order that He might not be seen, the luminaries turned away, and the day became darkened—because they slew God, who hung naked on the tree. . . . This is He who made the heaven and the earth, and in the beginning, together with the Father, fashioned man; who was announced by means of the law and the prophets; who put on a bodily form in the Virgin; who was hanged upon the tree; who was buried in the earth; who rose from the place of the dead, and ascended to the height of heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father.” (Melito, 5. ANF, VIII:757)

 

  1. Irenaeus of Lyons (120–202): “For I have shown from the Scriptures, that no one of the sons of Adam is as to everything, and absolutely, called God, or named Lord. But that He is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, and Lord, and King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word, proclaimed by all the prophets, the apostles, and by the Spirit Himself, may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth. Now, the Scriptures would not have testified these things of Him, if, like others, He had been a mere man. . . . He is the holy Lord, the Wonderful, the Counselor, the Beautiful in appearance, and the Mighty God, coming on the clouds as the Judge of all men; — all these things did the Scriptures prophesy of Him.” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3.19.2. ANF, I:449)

 

  1. Irenaeus (again): “He received testimony from all that He was very man, and that He was very God, from the Father, from the Spirit, from angels, from the creation itself, from men, from apostate spirits and demons.” (Ibid., 4.6.7. ANF, I:469)

 

  1. Irenaeus (again): “Christ Jesus [is] our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father.” (Ibid., 1.10.1. ANF, I:330)

 

  1. Irenaeus (again): “Christ Himself, therefore, together with the Father, is the God of the living, who spoke to Moses, and who was also manifested to the fathers.” (Ibid., 4.5.2. ANF, I:467)

 

  1. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150–215): “This Word, then, the Christ, the cause of both our being at first (for He was in God) and of our well-being, this very Word has now appeared as man, He alone being both, both God and man—the Author of all blessings to us; by whom we, being taught to live well, are sent on our way to life eternal. . . . . . . The Word, who in the beginning bestowed on us life as Creator when He formed us, taught us to live well when He appeared as our Teacher; that as God He might afterwards conduct us to the life which never ends” (Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation to the Heathen, 1. ANF, II:173)

 

  1. Tertullian (c. 160–225): For God alone is without sin; and the only man without sin is Christ, since Christ is also God.” (Tertullian, Treatise on the Soul, 41. ANF, III:221)

 

  1. Tertullian (again): “Thus Christ is Spirit of Spirit, and God of God, as light of light is kindled. . . . That which has come forth out of God is at once God and the Son of God, and the two are one. In this way also, as He is Spirit of Spirit and God of God, He is made a second in manner of existence—in position, not in nature; and He did not withdraw from the original source, but went forth. This ray of God, then, as it was always foretold in ancient times, descending into a certain virgin, and made flesh in her womb, is in His birth God and man united.” (Tertullian, Apology, 21. ANF, III:34–35)

 

  1. Hippolytus (170–235): “The Logos alone of this God is from God himself; wherefore also the Logos is God, being the substance of God.” (Hippolytus, Refutation of All Heresies, 10.29. ANF, V:151)

 

  1. Origen (c. 185–254): “Jesus Christ . . . in the last times, divesting Himself (of His glory), became a man, and was incarnate although God, and while made a man remained the God which He was.” (Origen, De Principiis, Preface, 4. ANF, IV:240)

Source for each of these “22 quotes”:

https://thecripplegate.com/did-the-early-church-affirm-jesus-deity/

 

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mystery of the Most Blessed Holy Spirit in the Trinity

 

Warning: If you are unsure about this Topic, please do not throw ‘vain words’ less they become ‘blasphemy against His Holy Spirit’ which has ‘no forgiveness in this age or the next’ (Matthew 12:31 – 32 – Verse in image too).

 

1) Holy Spirit in the Bible – is He God?

To quote:

“… Acts 5:3–4 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is God. Remember the story of Ananias and Sapphira? Before Ananias was struck dead, Peter told him, “Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit? . . . You have not lied to men; but to God.” From this event we can see that lying to the Holy Spirit is the same as lying to God; therefore, the Holy Spirit is God. There is more Scriptural evidence that the Holy Spirit is God. We see from the Bible that: The words of God are the words the Holy Spirit inspired (2 Timothy 3:16 , 2 Peter 1:21). We are the temple of God because the Spirit indwells us (1 Corinthians 6:19). The one born of the Spirit is said to be born of God (John 3:5–8). …”

Source:

 

https://answersingenesis.org/who-is-god/the-trinity/god-the-holy-spirit/

 

2) God the Holy Spirit – is He a Distinct Person Biblically?

 

To quote:

 

“… A real person has the attributes of personality, which include mind, will, and emotions. Does the Holy Spirit have a will? He distributes spiritual gifts to Christians “as He [Holy Spirit] wills.” (1 Corinthians 12:11). Does the Holy Spirit have a mind? He “searches . . . the deep things of God” and knows them. (1 Corinthians 2:10 “) Does the Holy Spirit have emotions? We are told to “grieve not the Holy Spirit.”(Ephesians 4:30). If the Holy Spirit can be grieved, then He has emotions. Because the Holy Spirit has a mind, a will, and emotions, we know that He is a Person as He does some things which only a Person can do. ( Acts 8:28, 16:6; Matthew 10:16–20; Romans 8:26.). A real person also has the capacity to have relationships with others. That’s the primary reason we have mind, will, and emotions. According to Philippians 2:1, the Spirit is able to have fellowship with us. According to 2 Corinthians 13:14, the Holy Spirit can have communion with us. One who is able to commune and to have fellowship is capable of personal relationships. Therefore, the Holy Spirit is a person. …”

 

Source: https://answersingenesis.org/who-is-god/the-trinity/god-the-holy-spirit/

 

3) God the Holy Spirit in the Bible – is He a Different Person from God the Father and God the Son?

 

“… One person I talked to declared, “The Holy Spirit is Jesus.” Some people think that the Holy Spirit is actually the same Person as the Father and the Son. But the Scriptures clearly teach a distinction between the Persons of the Trinity. For example, again and again in John 14–16, Jesus referred to a Helper (“Comforter” in the KJV) that He would send when He went back to the Father. (John 15:26 , John 16:7). This Helper would guide the disciples and teach them.(John 16:13). If Jesus and the Holy Spirit were one and the same Person, Jesus’s reference to the Holy Spirit as another Helper would not make sense. Jesus must have been referring to another Person distinct from Himself. Look at the account of Jesus’s baptism.(Mark 1:10–11). Here the Son is baptized; a voice from Heaven says, “This is my beloved Son”; and the Holy Spirit, like a dove, rests upon Jesus. All of this occurs simultaneously. All three of the members of the Trinity are seen here at the same time, obviously distinct from one another. As a distinct person, the Holy Spirit has lived in a loving relationship with the Father and Son from all eternity. God created us to participate in that love relationship. God wants us to enjoy fellowship with Him,(1 John 1:4, Philippians 2:1) as each member of the Trinity has enjoyed fellowship with each other from before the beginning of time.(John 17:22–23) …”

 

Source: https://answersingenesis.org/who-is-god/the-trinity/god-the-holy-spirit/

 

4) God the Son Mystery

 

This has been discussed previously in post below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159556058397784

 

or even well listed with First Christianity quotes prior to Council of Nicea in post below too:

 

https://www.str.org/w/nine-early-church-fathers-who-taught-jesus-is-god

 

or in this post too:

 

https://www.bible.ca/H-trinity.htm

 

 

5) Trinity

 

Since these posts individually show with Bible Verses and First Christianity quotes of “God the Father”, “God the Son” and “God the Holy Spirit” distinctly, we understand that the One God is thus Manifested in Three Persons as was Concluded formally in the Councils of Nicea. It is interesting to note that only in the “Doctrine of Trinity” the Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox or other Orthodox branches together with Protestantism “all agree”.

 

The parts of Christianity which do not agree to the ‘Trinity Doctrine’ or has variations (such as ‘Oneness Pentecostalism’ or ‘Jehovah Witness’, ‘Mormons’ etc.) may have their ‘Salvation being doubted too’ and so I take no such risks in this Belief. May God have Mercy on whom He Wills.

 

Example: Isn’t the Father Greater than the Son disprove the Equality of the GodHead in the Trinity? (John 14:28)

 

Lord Jesus Christ is Equal to God the Father (Philippians 2:6, John 10:30).

 

And He left His Equality to Fulfill the Law & Father’s Will in Philippians 2.

 

Hebrews 7:3, Christ the Actual of the Melchizedek Type has “no” Father, nor beginning of days, nor end of life proving that He is Not a Creation & that Trinity is True. More details is discussed in post below too:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159516320652784

 

Comment: The Equality with God the Father is mentioned in Philippians 2:6 and since Christ Willingly left that, it is understood that the Father is Greater till Be Rises again to Full Glory at the End of the Ages after every knee bows as Philippians 2:9 – 11 concludes. Perhaps this is the Mysterious Full Glory of back to Equality to God the Father Christ Prophesies of in John 17:5. Please note carefully that John 17:1 – 5 is a Prophecy as Christ hasn’t died and Resurrected even but sees it as a Done Reality where John 17:2 is sometimes argued by Christians with a Universalism Hope that all men (or all mankind) may eventually attain to an “Eternal Life” of some level by His Mercy as His Complete Will.

 

 

Conclusion – did the First Christians Understand it this Way even before the Council of Nicea?

 

Please consider these quotes:

 

  1. i) Genesis 1:26 – The Mystery of the “Plural-Us” referring to “God”?

 

God being referred to as “Plural-Us” is also found in Genesis 3:22 and Genesis 11:7. Example:

 

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.” (Genesis 1:26, KJV)

 

The shallow claim that ‘Plural-Us’ is used when God Speaks is not true at all as God also refers to ‘Singular – I’ more in Holy Old Testament Scripture itself (e.g. Isaiah 45:5, Isaiah 46:9, Isaiah 43:11, Isaiah 45:22, Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 45:18 etc.) proving that this is not a Grammatical Issue at all.

 

Truth is, First Christians believed that this “Plural – Us” refers to the Mystery of the Most Holy Trinity as “God the Spirit was there” (Genesis 1:2) and so was “God the Son” (Colossians 1:13 – 16) with “God the Father” (John 1:3) during ‘Creating itself’.

 

Example First Christianity quotes prior to the Council of Nicea indicating ‘Distinct Persons in the Us of the Trinity’ based on Genesis 1:26 only:

 

“…

 

  1. 74 AD Epistle of Barnabas: “For the Scripture says concerning us, while He speaks to the Son, “Let Us make man after Our image, and after Our likeness” (Epistle of Barnabas, Chapter VI.—The Sufferings of Christ, and the New Covenant, Were Announced by the Prophets.)

 

  1. 150 AD Justin Martyr: Speaking of Jewish theologians Justin calls the Jewish teaching that God spoke to angels a hersey: “In saying, therefore, ‘as one of us, ‘[Moses] has declared that [there is a certain] number of persons associated with one another, and that they are at least two. For I would not say that the dogma of that heresy which is said to be among you (The Jews had their own heresies which supplied many things to the Christian heresies) is true, or that the teachers of it can prove that [God] spoke to angels, or that the human frame was the workmanship of angels. But this Offspring, which was truly brought forth from the Father, was with the Father before all the creatures.” (Dialogue of Justin Martyr, with Trypho, a Jew: Chapter LXII.—The Words “Let Us Make Man”)

 

  1. 180 AD Irenaeus “It was not angels, therefore, who made us, nor who formed us, neither had angels power to make an image of God, nor any one else, except the Word of the Lord, nor any Power remotely distant from the Father of all things. For God did not stand in need of these [beings], in order to the accomplishing of what He had Himself determined with Himself beforehand should be done, as if He did not possess His own hands. For with Him were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things, to whom also He speaks, saying, “Let Us make man after Our image and likeness; ” [Gen. 1:26]” (Against Heresies 4:20:1).

 

…”

 

Source: https://www.bible.ca/H-trinity.htm

 

  1. ii) Genesis 19:24 – Two YHWH’s mentioned?

 

Yes:

 

“24Then the LORD [YHWH] rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD [YHWH] out of heaven; 25And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.” (Genesis 1:24 – 25, KJV)

 

There is no corruption in Genesis 1:24 as even the Septuagint or the LXX for this Verse reads the same, link below:

 

https://biblehub.com/sep/genesis/19.htm

 

Comment: Please notice carefully that there is ‘one YHWH standing on earth who called the Fire upon Sodom & Gomorrah’ while ‘Another YHWH in Heaven’ as ‘it is Written’ in Verses above.

 

We understand that the ‘Visible YHWH on Earth is God the Son, Lord Jesus Christ’ (Colossians 1:18) while the ‘Invisible YHWH in Heaven is God the Father’ ( 1 Timothy 6:16, Colossians 1:15, 1 Timothy 1:17) as this is how this ‘Champion of Faith’ himself explains, to quote:

 

“… “And now I shall again recite the words which I have spoken in proof of this point. When Scripture says,’ The Lord rained fire from the Lord out of heaven,’ the prophetic word indicates that there were two in number: One upon the earth, who, it says, descended to behold the cry of Sodom; Another in heaven, who also is Lord of the Lord on earth, as He is Father and God; the cause of His power and of His being Lord and God. Again, when the Scripture records that God said in the beginning, ‘Behold, Adam has become like one of Us,’ this phrase, ‘like one of Us,’ is also indicative of number; and the words do not admit of a figurative meaning, as the sophists endeavour to affix on them, who are able neither to tell nor to understand the truth. And it is written in the book of Wisdom: ‘If I should tell you daily events, I would be mindful to enumerate them from the beginning. The Lord created me the beginning of His ways for His works. From everlasting He established me in the beginning, before He formed the earth, and before He made the depths, and before the springs of waters came forth, before the mountains were settled; He begets me before all the hills.'” When I repeated these words, I added: “You perceive, my hearers, if you bestow attention, that the Scripture has declared that this Offspring was begotten by the Father before all things created; and that which is begotten is numerically distinct from that which begets, any one will admit.” …” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, ‘Dialogue with Trypho the Jew’, CHAPTER CXXIX)

 

Source:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

 

Here is another two quotes (and more in link below) from First Christianity prior to the Council of Nicea which also proves this understanding o “Two YHWH’s” distinctly mentioned in Genesis 19:24, to quote:

 

“…

 

  1. a) 150 AD Justin Martyr: In this text, Justin the Christian is trying to convince Trypho the Jew that Jesus is God, by showing one of the three men who appeared to Abraham, was Yahweh himself: ” I [Justin] inquired. And Trypho said, “Certainly; but you have not proved from this that there is another God besides Him who appeared to Abraham, and who also appeared to the other patriarchs and prophets. You have proved, however, that we [the Jews] were wrong in believing that the three who were in the tent with Abraham were all angels.” I [Justin] replied again, “If I could not have proved to you from the Scriptures that one of those three is God, because, as I already said, He brings messages to those to whom God the Maker of all things wishes [messages to be brought], then in regard to Him who appeared to Abraham on earth in human form in like manner as the two angels who came with Him, and who was God even before the creation of the world, it were reasonable for you to entertain the same belief as is entertained by the whole of your nation.” “Assuredly,” he said, “for up to this moment this has been our [the Jews] belief.” … “And now have you not perceived, my friends, that one of the three, who is both God and Lord, and ministers to Him who is in the heavens, is Lord of the two angels? For when [the angels] proceeded to Sodom, He remained behind, and communed with Abraham in the words recorded by Moses; and when He departed after the conversation, Abraham went back to his place. And when he came [to Sodom], the two angels no longer conversed with Lot, but Himself, as the Scripture makes evident; and He is the Lord who received commission from the Lord who [remains] in the heavens, i.e., the Maker of all things, to inflict upon Sodom and Gomorrah the [judgments] which the Scripture describes in these terms: ‘The Lord rained down upon Sodom and Gomorrah sulphur and fire from the Lord out of heaven.’ “(Dialogue of Justin Martyr, with Trypho, a Jew, Chapter LVI.—God Who Appeared to Moses is Distinguished from God the Father.)

 

 

  1. b) 180 AD Irenaeus “Therefore neither would the Lord, nor the Holy Spirit, nor the apostles, have ever named as God, definitely and absolutely, him who was not God, unless he were truly God; nor would they have named any one in his own person Lord, except God the Father ruling over all, and His Son who has received dominion from His Father over all creation, as this passage has it: “The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit Thou at my right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool.” Here the [Scripture] represents to us the Father addressing the Son; He who gave Him the inheritance of the heathen, and subjected to Him all His enemies. Since, therefore, the Father is truly Lord, and the Son truly Lord, the Holy Spirit has fitly designated them by the title of Lord. And again, referring to the destruction of the Sodomites, the Scripture says, “Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah fire and brimstone from the LORD out of heaven.” For it here points out that the Son, who had also been talking with Abraham, had received power to judge the Sodomites for their wickedness. And this [text following] does declare the same truth: “Thy throne, O God; is for ever and ever; the scepter of Thy kingdom is a right scepter. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity: therefore God, Thy God, hath anointed Thee.” For the Spirit designates both [of them] by the name, of God — both Him who is anointed as Son, and Him who does anoint, that is, the Father.” (Irenaeus, Book 3, ch 6)

 

…”

Source: https://www.bible.ca/H-trinity.htm

 

iii) Two YHWH’s are also mentioned in Zechariah 3:2 which must mean likewise and Blessed St. Ireneaous of Lyons understanding it that way is discussed somewhere in posts below:

 

https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/trinity-did-st-irenaeous-of-lyons-believe-in-the-trinity/

 

or

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159516320652784

 

  1. iv) Ancient Jews

 

Some ancient Jews may have understood this same Mystery of the “Plural – Us” referring to God as pertaining to the Mystery of the Most Blessed Trinity as discussed a little in link below:

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159521111052784

 

  1. v) Are the Testimonies of Blessed St. Justin Martyr and Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons reliable?

Surely, more reliable than any Christian living today or after them. Only the Testimonies of the Apostles of Christ and very Select Leaders in First Christianity may exceed them in their Faith in Christ. About them, to quote:

 

v.i. Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Martyr

” … And Justin of Neapolis, a man who was not far separated from the apostles either in age or excellence, says that that which is mortal is inherited, but that which is immortal inherits; and that the flesh indeed dies, but the kingdom of heaven lives. …” — From METHODIUS On the Resurrection, in Photius. (Fragment V, St. Justin Martyr’s Lost Writings)

 

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-fragments.html

 

Note: Justin of Neapolis = Blessed St. Justin Martyr

 

 

v.ii. Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, Hearer of St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smryna, who is also an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of the Blessed St. John the Apostle (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus

Even Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons’ views Blessed St. Justin Martyr very highly, to quote:

“.. For as we do direct our faith towards the Son, so also should we possess a firm and immoveable love towards the Father. In his book against Marcion, Justin [Martyr] does well say: “I would not have believed the Lord Himself, if He had announced any other than He who is our framer, maker, and nourisher. But because the only-begotten Son came to us from the one God, who both made this world and formed us, and contains and administers all things, summing up His own handiwork in Himself, my faith towards Him is steadfast, and my love to the Father immoveable, God bestowing both upon us.” …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, Hearer of St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smryna, who is also an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of the Blessed St. John the Apostle (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book IV, Chapter VI, Point 2)

Source:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html

 

One final note: Neither Blessed St. Justin Martyr nor Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons’ writings contain any prayer to Virgin Mary. Very Interesting indeed.

 

  1. vi) St. Justin Martyr affirms that the Most Blessed Holy Spirit is a Distinct Person of the Trinity

 

“… not recognising Him, they inquired, ‘Who is this King of glory?’ And the Holy Spirit, either from the person of His Father, or from His own person, answers them, ‘The Lord of hosts, He is this King of glory.’ …” – Blessed St. Justin Martyr, a Great Early Christian Apologist who is a Foremost Exponent of the Divine Word, who Influenced Virtually all of subsequent Christian philosophy and Catholic theology, Martyr for Christ (c. 100 AD – c. 160 AD, ‘Dialogue with Trypho the Jew’, CHAPTER XXXVI)

Source:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

 

Proof quote from the above:

 

“… And the Holy Spirit, either from the person of His Father, or from His own person, answers them …” = Most Blessed Holy Spirit is a Person Speaking of His Own Will or as per the Father’s Instruction.

 

Mysterious Indeed. Indeed, ‘Faith is to remain in Wonder of the Incomprehensible God’ because if He is to be Bound by ‘our logic or limits’ of ‘how can God be Three Persons but yet One etc.’, then He is ‘limited’. The Mystery of the Most Holy Trinity Proves that nothing is Impossible with God.

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some Type of Christ Centered Universalism Hope in Book of 1Enoch – is it Scripture?

 

Someone Said: “… as far as your last statement goes, we do know that Enoch is Scripture. Not just from the writings from the early church but more importantly from the words of our own Saviour (Mathew 22:29-30/Enoch 15:6-7 ironically in the one verse most often used against Enoch) …”

 

How? [Discussed in Point 3 later]

 

Please consider:

 

1) Christ Centered Universalism Hope

 

Some type of Christ Centered Universalism Hope is Echoed in the Book of 1Enoch as follows, Example:

 

“… [Chapter 50] 1 And in those days a change shall take place for the holy and elect, And the light of days shall abide upon them, And glory and honour shall turn to the holy, 2 On the day of affliction on which evil shall have been treasured up against the sinners. And the righteous shall be victorious in the name of the Lord of Spirits: And He will cause the others to witness (this) That they may repent And forgo the works of their hands. 3 They shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits, Yet through His name shall they be saved, And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them, For His compassion is great. 4 And He is righteous also in His judgement, And in the presence of His glory unrighteousness also shall not maintain itself: At His judgement the unrepentant shall perish before Him. 5 And from henceforth I will have no mercy on them, saith the Lord of Spirits. …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 50, All Verses 1 – 5)

 

Hope for the Sinners/Wicked?

Focus Phrase from the above: “… And He will cause the others [the sinners and/or Wicked] to witness (this) That they may repent And forgo the works of their hands. 3 They shall have NO HONOUR through the NAME of the LORD of SPIRITS, Yet THROUGH HIS NAME [John 14:6] SHALL THEY BE SAVED [Joel 2:32, Romans 10:13, Matthew 12:21], And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them …” – Book of 1Enoch.

 

Source: http://wesley.nnu.edu/index.php?id=2126

 

 

2) First Christianity

 

First Christianity – did it consider the Book of 1Enoch as Scripture?

 

There is a possibility to argue it but whether it is true or not, no one can be certain. The quote I gave above is not the division of Sheol but “Judgment Day” (please read it carefully again).

 

Regarding the Canonicity of Book of 1Enoch, none of the earliest Church Fathers doubted it. Only the ‘later fathers’ were not fond of it. So, we are just following either these ‘early church leaders’ or ‘later church leader’s decision’ as to whether it is at Scripture Level or not.

 

To quote:

 

  1. i) Canonicity of the Book of 1Enoch

 

Note: “… The Book of 1Enoch was considered as scripture in the Epistle of Barnabas (16:4)[26] and by many of the early Church Fathers, such as Athenagoras,[27] Clement of Alexandria,[28] Irenaeus[29] and Tertullian,[30] who wrote c. 200 that the Book of Enoch had been rejected by the Jews because it contained prophecies pertaining to Christ.[31] However, later Fathers denied the canonicity of the book, and some even considered the Epistle of Jude uncanonical because it refers to an “apocryphal” work …”

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

 

The Bible’s Jude 14 is a direct quote by Apostle Jude to this Book of 1Enoch as it is word to word to this only and not even the midrash which has different words.

 

 

  1. ii) Example of First Christians who considered the Book of 1Enoch as “Scripture”?

 

  1. Epistle of Jude

 

Jude 14 quotes Enoch who as “the seventh from Adam, prophesied,” indicating that the book is true and was written by Enoch himself, and thus its composition was of great antiquity. The citation has been taken by some to mean that Jude accepts it as Scripture.

 

 

  1. Epistle of Barnabas

 

The Epistle of Barnabas (ca 30 AD – 70 AD), a primer used for teaching new Christian converts in the early church, names and quotes Enoch as “Scripture” and elsewhere cites it as Scripture with the formula “it is written.”[11]

 

iii. Justin Martyr

 

Justin Martyr (110 AD – 165 AD) accepts Enoch as Scripture and in his Second Apology discusses Enoch in depth and uses it to establish doctrine on fallen angels and the origin of demons from angels’ adulteration with women.[12] (In his Dialogue with Trypho, Justin charges that some were removing passages of Scripture that prophetically identified Jesus as the Messiah, from Jeremiah and Isaiah.)[13]

 

  1. Athenagoras

 

Athenagoras (133 AD – 190 AD) in his Plea for the Christians uses Enoch to establish doctrine about Genesis 6:1-4, grouping it as one of the books of Prophets of the Old Testament: “you know that we say nothing without witnesses, but state the things which have been declared by the prophets.”[14]

 

  1. Irenaeus

 

Irenaeus (d. 202 AD), the famous apologist, accepts Enoch as Scripture and, in Against Heresies, discusses the doctrine that Enoch was God’s legate to fallen angels, which is unique to Enoch,[15] and that a group of fallen angels devised methods of sorcery to adulterate with women.[16] Also in Against Heresies, Book III, 21.2, Irenaeus treats the books of Chronicles and Ezra as a single book written by Ezra. That would reduce the tally of books in the canon from 22 to 21 unless Enoch was included as part of the canon, as Irenaeus does.

 

vi.Clement of Alexandria

 

Clement of Alexandria (ca 150 AD – ca 215 AD) accepts Enoch as Scripture and writes that both Daniel and Enoch taught the same thing regarding the blessing of the faithful (Eclogue 2.1) and that the fallen angels were the source of the black arts (53.4).[17] . See also Clement’s Homilies XI–XVI for great detail used from Enoch.

 

vii. Tertullian

 

Tertullian (155 AD – 222 AD), the founder of Western theological scholarship, in On the Apparel of Women (Book I), names and cites Enoch as “Scripture,” part of “the canon” and “divinely inspired.” He names Enoch as its genuine, human author. He states that its quotation in Jude 14 is an attestation in the New Testament to its authenticity and that “some” had removed it . from the closed canon.[18] In Book II, Tertullian uses Enoch to establish doctrine against the excessive ornamentation of women, attributing its origin to demons who cohabitated with them before the Great Flood.[19] Within his Apologetic, in On Idolatry, he uses Enoch to establish the doctrine that idolatry and astrology originated from demons[20] and that demons are the supernatural issue of fallen angels adulterating with women.[21]

 

viii. Commodianus

 

Commodianus (ca 240) accepts Enoch as Scripture and, in his Instructions, uses information unique to Enoch to establish doctrine on the origin of demons from angels adulterating with women and on the wicked arts they taught. Thus, he shows that heathen gods were actually the same demons.[22]

 

  1. Origen

 

Origen (185 AD – 254 AD), in De Principiis, names and quotes Enoch as “Holy Scripture” and notes that the church did not accept the several other books called “Enoch” were at all “divine” (Against Celsus). (However, Enoch is missing in the quotation of a canonical list from Eusebius’s Church History attributed to Origen.)[23]

 

  1. Anatolius

Anatolius (early 3rd c AD – July 3, 283 AD) cites Enoch to interpret the ancient Jewish calendar (in a reference to Enoch, Book of Starlight).[24]

  1. Cassiodorus

Cassiodorus (ca 485 AD – ca 585 AD), authenticates Enoch as Scripture by quoting Jude 14 (“In these words he (Jude) verifies the prophecy”) and that Enoch was inspired and was integral to the Old Testament. In the same Latin translation of comments on the First Epistle of Peter attributed to Clement of Alexandria (ca.150 – 211/216), Cassiodorus also uses Enoch to establish doctrine that fallen angels are apostates from God.[25]

 

Source for this list:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reception_of_Enoch_in_antiquity

Conclusion

 

It is thus “possible” to be true though no one can be certain and hence we need not teach it as doctrine but hope.

3) Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ

Did Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ Imply indirectly that Book of 1Enoch as Scripture?

 

Please consider the quote and Bible Verses below [Please see image too]:

“… 1 And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: ‘Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous 2 man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. And go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them: “You should intercede” for men, and not men 3 for you: Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children 4 of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die 5 and perish. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget 6 children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. But you were formerly 7 spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling. 8 And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon 9 the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; 10 they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. [As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless 12 hunger and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them. …” – Book of 1Enoch (Chapter 15)

Source: http://wesley.nnu.edu/index.php?id=2126

 

and

 

“29Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. 31But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.” (Matthew 22:29 – 33, NKJV)

Comment: Please note carefully that Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ quotes the phrase “…29 … You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God …” in the Context of those being part of the First Resurrection do not marry —> “… 30For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven …”. Please compare this with the quote from 1Enoch prior which states “… But you were formerly 7 spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven …”.

Here is the most interesting part: Christ’s quote of “… You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures …” when He Taught regarding the aforementioned ‘no marriage in heaven’ aspect means that this must be revealed somewhat in a “Scripture” existing at that time. However, this is ONLY found in the Book of 1Enoch among the Jewish Scripture Level Writings at that time in the Context of ‘angels do not marry wives’ meaning most likely that Christ is quoting the Book of 1Enoch as Scripture indirectly as some scholars have remarked!

 

Indeed, not everyone in Judaism at that time considered Book of 1Enoch as Scripture which agrees further to Christ’s quote earlier that ” … you… not knowing the Scriptures [inclusive of the Book of 1Enoch?]…”.

 

Fascinating indeed.

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apocrypha Mystery – Are there lost Books of the Bible?

 

1) Apocrypha means “Hidden” or “Secret”.

 

“The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.” (Deuteronomy 29:29, KJV)

 

2) Jewish Old Testament Canon History

 

It is well known that Blessed Prophet Ezra Sealed the Books for the Old Testament and the Canon was closed thereafter. In fact, some books/parts were believed to be missing but were given under the Inspiration of God to be Written again as Jewish Tradition relates to Bible Verses below:

 

“1And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel. 2And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month. 3And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law. … 9And Nehemiah, which is the Tirshatha, and Ezra the priest the scribe, and the Levites that taught the people, said unto all the people, This day is holy unto the LORD your God; mourn not, nor weep. For all the people wept, when they heard the words of the law.” (Nehemiah 8:1 – 3, 9, KJV)

 

3) Lost Books of the Jewish Canon

However, what is not widely known among Christians is that Blessed Prophet Ezra was told by God to Write another “70 Secret Books” which were only for the “Wise”, to quote:

 

“… Finally, there is a vision of the restoration of scripture. God appears to Ezra in a bush and commands him to restore the Law. Ezra gathers five scribes and begins to dictate. After forty days, he has produced ninety-four books: the twenty-four books of the Tanakh and seventy secret works: Make public the twenty-four books that you wrote first, and let the worthy and the unworthy read them; but keep the seventy that were written last, in order to give them to the wise among your people.” (2 Esdras 14:45–46 RSV; 4 Ezra 12:45–46) …”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Esdras

 

Note: The Book of Esdras is still kept in the apocrypha section of the KJV Bible as you may read about it in link above (why would the original first “KJV Bible” even translate and keep a ‘false work’ if they think so for 100% certainty?)

 

Please note that the Jews did “not” include the”2 Esdras” Book as Scripture probably based on Verse above which also prohibits the ’70 Books’ to remain ‘hidden’ and hence cannot be declared openly as Canonical Scripture. Can you see it?

 

Example Verses from 2 Esdras:

 

“38 So it happened to me on the next day that a voice called me: “Ezra, open your mouth and drink what I give you to drink.” 39 So I opened my mouth, and a full cup was set before me. It was full of something like water, but its color was like fire. 40 I took it and drank, and when I had drunk it my heart poured forth understanding, and wisdom increased in my heart, for my spirit retained memory. 41 My mouth was opened and wasn’t shut anymore. 42 The Most High, moreover, gave understanding to the five men, and they wrote in turns what was dictated, in characters that they didn’t know, and they sat for forty days. They wrote by day, 43 but by night they ate bread; however, I spoke by day and wasn’t silent by night. 44 Ninety-four scrolls were written in the forty days. 45 Then when the forty days were completed, the Most High said to me, “Make public the ones you wrote first so that the worthy and unworthy may read them. 46 But keep the last seventy so that you may transmit them to the wise among your people. 47 In these are the fountains of understanding, the source of wisdom, and the river of knowledge.” 48 And so I did.” (2 Esdras 14:38 – 38, CEB)

 

Source:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Esdras+14&version=CEB

 

4) What are these 70 Lost Books?

 

It is also well known that ‘what are the names of these 70 Books’ to the “Wise” as God Instructed Blessed Prophet Ezra to Write may have been ‘lost to time’. However, some scholars attempt to find these books such as the example list below, to quote:

 

“…

1.Book of the Words of Adam and Eve (Life of Adam and Eve)

2.Book of the Visions of Enoch (2 Enoch)

3.Book of the Words of Enoch the Prophet (1 Enoch)

4.Book of the Words of the Fallen Ones (Book of Giants)

5.Book of the Divisions of the Jubilees Revealed to Abraham (Proto-Jubilees)

6.Book of the Words of Lamech (Genesis Apocryphon)

7.Book of the Words of Noah (Genesis Apocryphon)

8.Book of the Words of Abraham (Genesis Apocryphon)

9.Book of the Words of Jacob

10.Book of the Words of Joseph

11.Book of the Divisions of the Jubilees Revealed to Moses (Book of Jubilees)

12.Book of the Words of Aseneth (Joseph and Aseneth)

13.Book of the Words of Jannes and Jambres (Jannes and Jambres)

14.Book of the Words of Eldad and Medad (Eldad and Medad)

15.Book of the Words of Balaam (Balaam Inscription)

16.Book of the Last Words of the Patriarchs Compiled by Shem

17.Book of the Last Words of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Testaments of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob)

18.Book of the Last Words of Joseph (Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs)

19.Book of the Last Words of Simeon (Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs)

20.Book of the Last Words of Reuben (Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs)

21.Book of the Last Words of Judah (Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs)

22.Book of the Last Words of Zebulun (Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs)

23.Book of the Last Words of Dan (Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs)

24.Book of the Last Words of Gad (Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs)

25.Book of the Last Words of Issachar (Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs)

26.Book of the Last Words of Asher (Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs)

27.Book of the Last Words of Naphtali (Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs)

28.Book of the Last Words of Benjamin (Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs)

29.Book of the Last Words of Levi (Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs)

30.Book of the Last Words of Kohath (Testament of Kohath)

31.Book of the Last Words of Amram (Visions of Amram)

32.Book of the Last Words of Aaron

33.Book of the Last Words of Job (Testament of Job)

34.Book of the Last Words of Moses (Testament of Moses)

35.Book of the Words of Moses (Assumption of Moses)

36.Book of the Last Words of David

37.Book of the Last Words of Solomon (Testament of Solomon)

38.Book of the Visions of Joshua (Apocryphon of Joshua)

39.Book of the Words of Salmon

40.Book of the Words of Boaz

41.Book of the Words of Obed

42.Book of the Visions of Samuel the Seer (Book of Samuel)

43.Book of the Visions of Gad the Seer (Book of Gad)

44.Book of the Words of Nathan the Prophet (Book of Nathan)

45.Book of the Words of Ahijah the Shilonite (Book of Ahijah)

46.Book of the Visions of Iddo the Seer (Book of Iddo)

47.Book of the Words of Shemaiah the Prophet (Book of Shemaiah)

48.Book of the Words of Jehu (Book of Jehu)

49.Book of the Words of Elijah (Apocalypse of Elijah)

50.Book of the Words of Elisha

51.Book of the Words of Tobit (Tobit)

52.Book of the Visions of Amos

53.Book of the Visions of Obadiah

54.Book of the Visions of Jonah

55.Book of the Visions of Micah

56.Book of the Visions of Hosea

57.Book of the Visions of Joel

58.Book of the Visions of Nahum

59.Book of the Visions of Isaiah (Martyrdom and Ascension of Isaiah)

60.Book of the Visions of the Seers (Sayings of the Seers)

61.Book of the Chronicles of the Priestly Calendar (Calendar Texts)

62.Book of the 80 Books of the Psalms of David (Apocryphal Psalms of David)

63.Book of the 15 Books of the Odes of David (Songs of the Sabbath Sacrifice and Songs For Each Day of the Year and Other Lost Songs of David)

64.Book of the 39 Books of the Odes and Psalms of Solomon (Odes and Psalms of Solomon and Other Lost Songs of Solomon)

65.Book of the Wisdom of Solomon (Wisdom of Solomon)

66.Book of the Four Books of the Proverbs and Riddles of Solomon (Apocryphal Proverbs and Apocryphal Riddles of Solomon)

67.Book of the Wisdom of Ahikar (Ahikar)

68.Book of the 35 Books of the Songs of Israel (Royal Psalms)

69.Book of the 24 Books of the Lamentations of Israel (Book of the Laments)

70.Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel (Chronicles of the Kings of Israel)

 

…”

 

Source:

 

https://orthodoxessenejudaism.wordpress.com/2016/04/25/the-70-apocrypha-books-of-ezra/comment-page-1/

 

5) Christ Centered Universalism Hope among some of these 70 Books?

  1. i) Book of 1Enoch

Most scholars agree that the Book of 1Enoch must certainly be one of these books as listed as “No. 3” on the example list above. In it, we find possible Christ Centered Universalism Hope as discussed in post below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159548315757784

or a ‘Possible’ Judgment Day View based on the Book of 1Enoch and the Millennial Reign Doctrine is discussed in post below:

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159489970167784

Note: Blessed Tertullian (the ‘father of Latin/Western Christianity’) is very confident that the Book of 1Enoch is Holy Scripture as discussed in his own words in link below:

https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04/anf04.iii.iii.i.iii.html

 

  1. ii) Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs

 

These are listed as Books “No. 18 to No. 29” in list above. Possible Christ Centered Universalism Hope (with possibly albeit edits by First Jewish Christians or did they preserve the Original as it is? only God knows) is discussed in post below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159193691397784

 

The Original Hebrew Word meaning “Olam” may refer to its literal meaning of “Age” only in such cases is discussed further in post below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159410771327784

 

Or the Concept of “Olam Ha’ba” or the “Age to Come” in posts below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159555996907784

 

and

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159511823387784:0

 

iii) Jewish Targums and Ancient Commentaries regarding Gehenna being not Eternal

 

Example – the Targums

 

The ancient Aramaic paraphrase-translations of the Hebrew Bible known as Targums supply the term “Gehinnom” frequently to verses touching upon resurrection, judgment, and the fate of the wicked. This may also include addition of the phrase “second death”, as in the final chapter of the Book of Isaiah, where the Hebrew version does not mention either Gehinnom or the Second Death, whereas the Targums add both. In this the Targums are parallel to the Gospel of Mark addition of “Gehenna” to the quotation of the Isaiah verses describing the corpses “where their worm does not die”.[20]

 

 

 

Example – Rabbinical Judaism

 

The picture of Gehenna as the place of punishment or destruction of the wicked occurs frequently in the Mishnah in Kiddushin 4.14, Avot 1.5; 5.19, 20, Tosefta t. Bereshith 6.15, and Babylonian Talmud b.Rosh Hashanah 16b:7a; b. Bereshith 28b. Gehenna is considered a Purgatory-like place where the wicked go to suffer until they have atoned for their sins. It is stated that the maximum amount of time a sinner can spend in Gehenna is one year. There are also four people who do not get a share in Olam Ha-Ba.[21] Those people are Doeg the Edomite, Ahitophel, Balaam, and Gehazi.

 

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna

 

Note: If their concept of Gehenna is wrong, Christ wouldn’t have mentioned it. But does it mean that Rabbinical Judaism got the facts regarding Gehenna right? The Rabbinical writings contain some truth but they missed some part of it. That’s why when Lord Jesus Christ spoke of Gehenna, He is referring to what they know but corrected their understanding of it and revealed more details as it is Written in New Testament verses.

 

Two more Examples:

 

(a) What’s the Difference between Gehenna and Sheol (Hades)?

 

To quote (Page 34):

 

“Hanhart (1966:32) states that according to Jeremias, however, it is fundamental for our understanding of the New Testament to make a sharp distinction between Hades and Gehenna. Hades is used exclusively for the interim period, Gehenna on the other side for a state of punishment after the last judgment. In Hades, the punishment is provisional, in Gehenna eternal.”

 

(b) Can the Messiah [Lord Jesus Christ] Save from Gehenna (the Final Judgment, Lake of Fire) itself?

 

To quote (Page 38):

 

“Bernard (1915:290) quotes two passages from the Bereshith Rabba to show that this idea was prominent in Jewish literature. He is, however, unsure of the dating of the literature. Nevertheless, it still demonstrates the basic purpose of the descent: ‘When they are bound, they that are in Gehinnom, saw the light of the Messiah, they rejoiced to receive him’; and ‘This is that which stands written, We shall rejoice and exult thee. When? When the captives climb out of hell, and the Shechinah at their head.’ The only difference here is that the captives are in Gehinnom and not Sheol.”

 

Source for both quotes (a) and (b) above:

 

https://repository.up.ac.za/bitstream/handle/2263/27130/dissertation.pdf?sequence=1

 

Could it be that they understood these parts from some lost writing among the 70 Secret Books of Ezra of which it may not be any one of the ones listed earlier? God Alone knows.

 

  1. iv) Apocalypse of Elijah

 

This is Book “No. 49” on that list. The Christ Centered Universalism part after the Prayer of the Righteous for the wicked to be Saved into a lower outside the Kingdom of the Heavens abodes (as the Christian Apocalypse of Peter Scripture in First Christianity) may be seen in quote below:

 

“… Then the sinners [ in torment ] will see the place of the righteous. And thus GRACE WILL OCCUR. In THOSE DAYS, that which the RIGHTEOUS will ASK for MANY TIMES WILL BE GIVEN to them. …” – Apocalypse of Elijah (Verses 28 – 29)

 

Source:

 

http://www.3-in-1.net/Pseudepigrapha/Apocalypse%20of%20Elijah/The%20Apocalypse%20of%20Elijah.htm

 

*Compare with the ‘Apocalypse of Peter’ Prophecy as it is discussed in link below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158849943722784

 

 

 

 

  1. v) Book of Tobit

 

This book is “No. 51” on that list which clearly speaks hope toward those who do ‘Charity Works’ being kept safe from the ‘Dark World of the Dead’:

 

“6 Then he said to them secretly: Bless ye the God of heaven, give glory to him in the sight of all that live, because he hath shewn his mercy to you. 7 For it is good to hide the secret of a king: but honourable to reveal and confess the works of God. 8 Prayer is good with fasting and alms more than to lay up treasures of gold: 9 For alms delivereth from death, and the same is that which purgeth away sins, and maketh to find mercy and life everlasting. … 15 For I am the angel Raphael, one of the seven who stand before the Lord.” (Bible Scripture.Net Translation, Tobit 12:6 – 9, 15)

Source: https://biblescripture.net/Tobias.html

A type of non-Elect Salvation may be “possible” toward the ‘Good non-Christian righteous based on works’ as discussed in post in link below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159472747592784

Compare:

 

“And every one that shall be saved, and shall be able to escape by his works, and by faith, whereby ye have believed,” (2 Esdras 9:7, KJV)

 

Source:

 

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/2-Esdras-9-7/

or

 

“7 All this—who will be saved, who will be able to escape through their works or through the faith with which they believe—” (2 Esdras 9:7, CEB)

 

“It shall be that all who will be saved and will be able to escape on account of their works, or on account of the faith by which they have believed,” (2 Esdras 9:7, NRSV)

 

“It shall be that all who will be saved and will be able to escape on account of their works, or on account of the faith by which they have believed,” (2 Esdras 9:7, NRSVA)

 

“And it shall be that every one who will be saved and will be able to escape on account of his works, or on account of the faith by which he has believed,” (2 Esdras 9:7, RSV )

Source for the last 4 translations:

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/2%20Esdras%209:7

 

Comment: Only the “King James Version (KJV)” translates the connecting word between faith & works as an “and” instead of a “or”. If it is a “or” perhaps this Verse Speaks of the following possibilities:

 

” who will be able to escape through their works ” = Non-Elect Salvation toward relatively Good non-Christians shown Mercy on that Day.

 

and

“who will be able to escape … or through the faith with which they believe” = Elect Salvation toward believers in Christ only.

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bible Mystery – Masoretic to Septuagint – Comparison

 

0) Is the Bible Inerrant?

 

Only the ‘Original Bibles’ were Inerrant. Surprising to most Christians, not all parts of the Original Bible might have survived and more surprisingly, it doesn’t mean that God has Failed because it is God Who Willed it that Way as we shall discuss next.

 

God Warned:

“Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.” (Proverbs 30:6, NKJV)

 

God Prophesied that the ‘Old Testament’ will eventually have some errors/alterations:

 

“How can you say, ‘We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us’? Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood.” (Jeremiah 8:8, NKJV)

 

The Verse above clearly proves that God never Promised to keep His Word Inerrant throughout all time in a single writing. So, when someone points to some errors in the ‘Old Testament’, they are proving the Bible right as Jeremiah 8:8 above clearly states that this would happen.

 

So, if you have two different words meaning for a Verse, how do you know which is the “Original Bible”?

 

We can’t and we choose among the available options and that’s why we have different translations of the Bible among “Christian” scholars as they pick and choose according to their reasons & personal belief the sources they think is preserving the most accurate to the Original.

What about the ‘New Testament’?

I believe that the New Testament Writings are Inerrant. If ever the New Testament contradicts the Old Testament, it is because the Old Testament has that ‘Scribal Error’ (Jeremiah 8:8). I believe that Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ Himself Mysteriously Proves this Perspective which I have Written above as Right as it is from Him that I learnt this in Verses below, please consider:

 

 

 

 

  1. Masoretic (Hebrew) Text – Old Testament

 

“The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;” (Isaiah 61:1, KJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/isaiah/61-1.htm

 

  1. Septuagint (Greek) LXX Text – Old Testament

 

“1The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me; he has sent me to preach glad tidings to the poor, to heal the broken in heart, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind;” (Isaiah 61:1, Brenton Septuagint Translation)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/isaiah/61.htm

 

iii. New Testament

 

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 4:18, KJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/luke/4-18.htm

 

What do you see?

 

Firstly, the KJV argument for this Verse does not list out all the aspects honestly in link below (as you can compare with what’s written next):

 

http://www.kjvtoday.com/home/reliable-hebrew-text/did-jesus-quote-luke-418-19-in-the-septuagint

 

  1. The Septuagint text is far more accurate in a ‘word to word’ quotation to Christ’s Own Words in Luke 4:18 than the Masoretic Text.

 

  1. In Luke 4:18, Christ was Reading from the Great Isaiah Scroll as Verses below reveal:

 

“16And he [Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ]* came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias [Isaiah]. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,” (Luke 4:16 – 17, KJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/kjv/luke/4.htm

 

*[Emphasis Mine throughout]

 

  1. Differences

 

  1. Luke 4:18 has “to set at liberty them that are bruised” while the Septuagint is missing this phrase entirely while the Masoretic Text is corrupted with a different phrase namely “and the opening of the prison to them that are bound”. So, the Septuagint is corrupted for this phrase. Liberty is the Greek ἄφεσις Aphesis meaning to release. Bruised is θραύω thrauó and can mean ‘bound’ as some claim but the word “prison” doesn’t appear in Christ’s quote at all which clearly proves that whatever the case, it is NOT a ‘word to word’ preservation in the Masoretic Text.

 

  1. Luke 4:18 and Septuagint both match in that the Gospel if primarily for the “poor” while the Masoretic uses a different word “meek” which is relatable but again is not ‘word to word’ inerrant.

 

  1. Luke 4:18 has the phrase “and recovering of sight to the blind” which matches the Septuagint’s “and recovery of sight to the blind” while the Masoretic Text does NOT have this phrase at all proving again that the Masoretic Text is corrupted in this case.

 

Note: The non-Christian Jews may use this Verse to claim that Luke 4:18 is corrupted but as a Christian we see it in the opposite way only, namely that the “New Testament’s Christ’s Word is Inerrant” as opposed to the Masoretic or Septuagint even.

 

 

 

 

 

Summary

 

Christ’s Own Most Blessed Words in Luke 4:18 proves that both the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint have been corrupted in some way as these Verses itself demonstrate the fulfillment of Jeremiah 8:8 (indeed, Christ has Fulfilled this Verse too by His Infamous Quote above – Can you see it?).

 

  1. So, if Christ was reading the ‘Masoretic Text’ as the King James Bible (KJV) Scholars ascertain that ‘Christ must have read from the Hebrew Version only’, then why is ‘their own translation of their own chosen Masoretic Text in Isaiah 61:1’ different from their own translation of Luke 4:18 and not word to word (both KJV translations)?

 

Please note that Christ is “not” paraphrasing these Isaiah Verses as He does in other times in the New Testament (e.g. Matthew 21:42) here simply because Luke 4:16 mentions that “He Read” from the Scroll of Scripture as “it was Written” as Luke 4:17 clearly records.

 

Since Christ cannot be reading a Corrupted Text with His Mouth, there are at least two possibilities then:

 

a). The Scroll which Christ Read from was as per Luke 4:18 only. Almost no Bible Scholar nowadays want to admit to this Truth because to say so would mean both the Septuagint and the Masoretic Text are “corrupted” and “different” from the Great Isaiah Scroll in the Time of Christ as these differences prove. Thus neither the Masoretic Text nor the Septuagint are word to word preservation of ‘that Original Old Testament Bible’ from the time of Christ ‘as claimed’. I will choose to believe the Gospel accounts that Christ Read that only.

 

  1. b) Christ might have held the Masoretic Text in His Hand or even the Septuagint for that matter (though this is highly unlikely) but when “He Read” what “was Written”, He Corrected the Parts which was Wrong as the Gospel Writers Record. But if this is the case, there would have been some commotion in the Synagogue where He Read due to ‘different words’ of which none of the Gospel Writers testify. So, this is highly unlikely too as compared to the possibility above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Old Testament Scribal Errors

 

Example:

 

  1. a) 1KI 16:6-8 Baasha died in the 26th year of King Asa’s reign.

 

vs

 

2CH 16:1 Baasha built a city in the 36th year of King Asa’s reign.

 

  1. b) Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he became king, and he reigned three months in Jerusalem; and his mother’s name was Nehushta the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem. 2 Kings 24:8

 

vs

 

Jehoiachin was eight years old when he became king, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem, and he did evil in the sight of the LORD. 2 Chronicles 36:9.

 

  1. c) Solomon had 40,000 stalls of horses for his chariots, and 12,000 horsemen. 1 Kings 4:26

 

vs

 

Now Solomon had 4,000 stalls for horses and chariots and 12,000 horsemen, and he stationed them in the chariot cities and with the king in Jerusalem. 2 Chronicles 9:25.

Jeremiah 8:8’s Prophecy might have come true for some cases as more is described in link below:

 

https://sites.google.com/site/errorsinthebible/contradictions

Note: I do not agree with the ‘only New Testament Error’ the authour proposed ‘Satan took Jesus to the pinnacle of the temple, then to the mountain top’ (based on Matthew 4:5-8) vs ‘Satan took Jesus to the mountain first, then the temple’ (based on Luke 4:5-9) as per the following reason:

 

“… It may be that Matthew describes these temptations chronologically while Luke lists them climactically, that is, topically. This may be to express the climax he desired to emphasize. Matthew 4:5 begins with the word “then” while verse 8 begins with the word “again.” In Greek, these words suggest a more sequential order of the events. In Luke’s account, however, verses 5 and 9 each begins with a simple “and” (see nasb). The Greek in the case of Luke’s account does not necessarily indicate a sequential order of events. Furthermore, there is no disagreement on the fact that these temptations actually happened. …”

Source:

 

https://defendinginerrancy.com/bible-solutions/Matthew_4.5-10_(cf._Luke_4.5-12).php

 

Also, when the Masoretic-Old Testament contradicts a “New Testament Verse”, I prefer believing the New Testament as representing the Truth and that the Masoretic one is corrupted while the KJV scholars claim in ‘reverse’ as the example of ‘Cainan’ demonstrate in link below [in short, Luke 3:36 is correctly quoting the Septuagint’s Genesis 11 and these are not ‘late manuscripts’ but earliest ones as it is the Masoretic Texts which the KJV uses can be dated earliest to 1000 years after Christ! while the Septuagint is clearly quoted in Luke 3:36 itself ehem ehem] :

 

http://www.kjvtoday.com/home/should-cainan-be-in-the-genealogy-in-luke-336

 

Note: In link above, the “KJV only scholars” even dare to claim that Blessed St. Luke made a mistake by inserting Cainan’s name wrongly in Luke 3:36 while they are right, ehem ehem.

 

Also many of the so called errors are not true especially when it relates to the New Testament, for example: Did the fig tree cursed by Jesus wither immediately (Matthew 21:19-20) or overnight (Mark 11:13-21)? The answer is that the fig tree began to wither immediately and by overnight, it was completely withered away.

 

2) Septuagint or the Masoretic Text or neither?

 

Just because Christ’s Own Most Blessed Words in Luke 4:18 Demonstrate that both the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint have errors as discussed earlier, it doesn’t mean that every Scripture may be corrupted by ‘Scribal Errors’ as there are good examples of New Testament Verses being quoted ‘Word for Word’ say from the Septuagint which shows that some of these Verses are per the possibly Lost Original Bible.

 

 

Example Quotes proving this:

 

‘… Of the approximately 300 Old Testament quotes in the New Testament, approximately 2/3 of them came from the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament) which included the deuterocanonical books that the Protestants later removed. This is additional evidence that Jesus and the apostles viewed the deuterocanonical books as part of canon of the Old Testament. …”

 

Source:

https://sites.google.com/site/errorsinthebible/examining-the-septuagint-and-the-masoretic-text/new-testament-quotes-from-the

 

The link above shows many such New Testament Verses where the “Septuagint” is Chosen over the ‘Masoretic Text’.

 

or

 

“… There are in all two hundred and eighty-three direct quotations from the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) in the New Testament.[1] Chester Beatty XII, Greek manuscript of the Book of Enoch, with the text quoted by Epistle of Jude (4th century)

In about ninety instances, the Septuagint is literally quoted. In around eighty further instances, the quote is altered in some way. For example, at Matthew 21:42 Jesus says “Did ye never read in the scriptures that the stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner?” – a reference to Psalm 118:22. Likewise, Mark 12:10. The Epistle of Jude quotes the pseudepigraphal Book of Enoch (1 Enoch 1:9) and the Assumption of Moses. Other quotations are sometimes made directly from the Hebrew text (e.g. Matthew 4:15–16, John 19:37, 1 Corinthians 15:54). …”

 

Source:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotations_from_the_Hebrew_Bible_in_the_New_Testament

 

or

 

“… This chart allows anyone without Greek to easily see, at a glance, the major differences that exist between the various versions. Oftentimes it is difficult to find tools that create the sort of format found below. The chart has no scholarly value. Anyone who wants to understand precisely the differences should begin to learn Greek, and to read the secondary literature on the subject. A good starting place is Natalio Fernández Marcos, “The Septuagint and the New Testament,” chapter 21 in The Septuagint in Context: Introduction to the Greek Version of the Bible, trans. Wilfred G. E. Watson (Leiden: Brill, 2000) ||. Marcos’s judgment on the matter is “that most of the the Old Testament quotations in the New follow the text of the LXX in one of its known forms.” (265) Thus, in some instances where the NT and LXX do not match, the NT may reflect an earlier or alternate version of the LXX. For another analysis of the quotations, see R. Grant Jones’s “The Septuagint in the New Testament.” …”

Source: http://www.kalvesmaki.com/LXX/NTChart.htm

 

3) Septuagint is more reliable Biblically and Historically

 

  1. i) Some Notes on the Apostles’ usage of the Septuagint may be seen in list given in link below as the Masoretic Text is corrupted in each case when compared to the New Testament’s Divine Choice

 

http://www.bible-researcher.com/quote01.html

 

  1. ii) Very few examples of the New Testament exists where the Masoretic was chosen or more accurate than the Septuagint

 

“… Sometimes the Septuagint diverges from the Hebrew with no loss of contemporary meaning, but at the cost of prophetic significance. Thus where the Hebrew of Hosea 11:1 reads, “When Israel was a child I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son”, the Greek renders it, “For Israel was an infant and I loved him, and out of Egypt I recalled his children”. The prophetic and Christological significance of the verse, attested to by St. Matthew in Matthew 2:13f, has vanished from the Septuagint. The upshot of all this is that the Septuagint should not be preferred to the Masoretic at every turn. At very least the Septuagint should be used along with the Masoretic. …”

Source:

 

https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/nootherfoundation/reflections-on-the-septuagint/

 

Comment: ‘… NET Bible has the following footnote on Hosea 11:1: The MT reads בְנִי (vÿni, “My son”); however, the LXX reflects בָנָיו (vanav, “his sons”). The MT should be retained as original here because of internal evidence; it is much more appropriate to the context. Obviously, Evangelist Matthew did not quote this particular verse from Septuagint for a reason. …’

 

Note: Sometimes the Septuagint itself may have had few variation versions (‘majority’ vs ‘minority’) for example for Isaiah 9:6 where the ‘minority might have been the Original’ as discussed in post below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159555996907784

 

Even the Canon of Old Testament Scripture may be a more Complex Mystery as discussed in post below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159568863652784

 

4) How did the Gospel Writers Choose between the Septuagint vs Masoretic or did they write directly from Inspiration of God where any match to either is coincidental?

 

God Alone Knows (2 Timothy 3:16).

 

Someone from the Eastern Orthodox Christianity said this,

 

‘… The writers of the New Testament did not rely on the Hebrew text. The recently published Eastern Orthodox Bible New Testament footnotes every single Old Testament quote and assesses whether the quote agrees with the Greek Septuagint rather than the Masoretic Text, which is supposedly a faithful representation of the “original” Hebrew. The vast majority of the Old Testament quotes agree with the Septuagint rather than the Masoretic Text, when there is a difference between the two. Regarding the quote of Deuteronomy 6:5 in Mark 12:30, I believe there are two plausible explanations:

 

  1. There is not an exact correspondence between the Greek and Hebrew words, so Mark decided that four Greek words “mind”, “heart”, “soul”, and “strength” were needed to capture the true meaning of the three Hebrew words labab, nephesh, and meod that Jesus probably spoke.

 

  1. There are two variants in the Septuagint version of Deuteronomy 6:5 (This is a fact). The first variant uses the Greek words “heart” (kardia), “soul” (psyche), and strength (dynamis). The second uses the Greek words “mind” (dianoia), “soul” and “strength”. Mark may have chosen to insert both kardia and dianoia to cover both versions….’

 

and

 

‘… Some Evidences of Aramaic Reliance:

 

Targum: New Advent, Encyclopedia – After the return from exile Aramaic gradually won the ascendancy as the colloquial language over the slowly decaying Hebrew until, from probably the last century before the Christian era, Hebrew was hardly more than the language of the schools and of worship.

 

Targumim, Jewish Encyclopedia – In like manner, the Aramaic passages in Genesis, Jeremiah, Daniel, and Ezra were briefly called “Targum,” (וּמְתֻרְגָּ֥ם, Ezra 4:7), while the Hebrew text was called “Miḳra” (see Yad. iv. 5; Shab. 115b).

 

Onkelos, chabad.org – Onkelos took very much to heart the fact that many Jews during the Babylonian Exile had forgotten their holy language, and had started speaking Babylonian, Ashdodic, Aramaic and different types of dialects. When the Jews returned from the Babylonian Exile, Ezra the Scribe translated the Torah into Aramaic so that everybody should be able to understand it, but the translation was lost. …’

 

Source for both quotes above:

 

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/22157/did-the-new-testament-writers-rely-on-the-hebrew-text

 

Some related good explanations may be found in link below too:

 

https://carm.org/KJVO/how-did-the-nt-authors-approach-the-use-of-translations

 

5) Septuagint is more superior to the Masoretic Text used by the KJV Bible based on New Testament Usage only

 

If you use New Testament Usage of Scripture only, the Septuagint is obviously more reliable than the Masoretic Text as these lists of Verses showing each of these Texts in Comparison may be found in links below:

 

http://ecclesia.org/truth/comparisons.html

 

or in this ‘300 New Testament Verses quoting the Old Testament List’ comparing it with the Masoretic Text vs the Septuagint too:

 

https://www.bible.ca/manuscripts/List-of-300-Old-Testament-passage-quotes-in-New-Testament-Septuagint-Codex-Vaticanus-LXX-Masoretic-MT-Jewish-Tanakh-Bible.htm

 

6) Testimony of the Church Fathers

 

Most Church Fathers prefer the Septuagint over the Masoretic Text, example quote:

 

“… In the 2nd century A.D., hundreds of years before the time of the Masoretes, Justin Martyr investigated a number of Old Testament texts in various Jewish synagogues. He ultimately concluded that the Jews who had rejected Christ had also rejected the Septuagint, and were now tampering with the Hebrew Scriptures themselves:

 

“But I am far from putting reliance in your teachers, who refuse to admit that the interpretation made by the seventy elders who were with Ptolemy [king] of the Egyptians is a correct one; and they attempt to frame another. And I wish you to observe, that they have altogether taken away many Scriptures from the [Septuagint] translations effected by those seventy elders who were with Ptolemy, and by which this very man who was crucified is proved to have been set forth expressly as God, and man, and as being crucified, and as dying” (~150 A.D., Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, Chapter LXXI)

 

If Justin Martyr’s findings are correct, then it is likely that the Masoretes inherited a Hebrew textual tradition which had already been corrupted with an anti-Christian bias. …”

 

Source:

 

https://theorthodoxlife.wordpress.com/2012/03/12/masoretic-text-vs-original-hebrew/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion

To quote:

“… Of the places where the New Testament quotes the Old, the great majority is from the Septuagint version. Protestant authors Archer and Chirichigno list 340 places where the New Testament cites the Septuagint but only 33 places where it cites from the Masoretic Text rather than the Septuagint (G. Archer and G. C. Chirichigno, Old Testament Quotations in the New Testament: A Complete Survey, 25-32).

 

For those who may not know, the Septuagint was the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament. The common abbreviation for it—LXX, or the Roman numerals for 70—come from a legend that the first part of the Septuagint was done by 70 translators.

 

By the first century, the LXX was the Bible of Greek-speaking Jews and so was the most frequently used version of the Old Testament in the early Church. For this reason, it was natural for the authors of the New Testament to lift quotes from it while writing in Greek to the Church.

But, while the New Testament authors quoted the LXX frequently, it does not necessarily follow that Christ did. We know for certain that Jesus quoted the Hebrew Old Testament at times, since he read from the scrolls in the synagogue. But Jesus could have only quoted from the Hebrew, and the New Testament authors later used the Greek translation to record the fact.

Either way, it doesn’t matter, because the Greek New Testament is inspired, and the Holy Spirit chose to have the sacred authors repeatedly cite the LXX. It doesn’t really matter if Jesus was quoting Scripture in Hebrew or Aramaic if the Holy Spirit chooses to use the Septuagint when translating his words into Greek. The importance of the Septuagint is demonstrated no matter which of these is the case.

But, since you ask, here is an example where the Greek gospels present Jesus as quoting the Septuagint: In Mark 7:6–7, Jesus quotes the LXX of Isaiah 29:13* when he says, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’”

 

Of course, the reason people usually ask about the New Testament authors’ use of the Septuagint is because it contains the seven deuterocanonical books that are now omitted from Protestant Bibles. Showing that the New Testament authors quoted from the LXX argues in favor of (though does not in itself prove) the inspiration of these seven books. …”

Source:

https://www.catholic.com/qa/in-which-passages-does-jesus-quote-the-septuagint-and-where-does-the-new-testament-allude-to-the

 

*Compare Mark 7:6 – 9 against the Masoretic Text vs Septuagint of Isaiah 29:13

 

“6… Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 7:6 – 9, KJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/kjv/mark/7.htm

 

“Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:” (Isaiah 29:13, KJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/isaiah/29-13.htm

 

“13And the Lord has said, This people draw nigh to me with their mouth, and they honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me: but in vain do they worship me, teaching the commandments and doctrines of men.” (Isaiah 29:13, Septuagint or LXX, Brenton Septuagint Translaton)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/isaiah/29.htm

 

Comment: In Mark 7:6 – 9 in the KJV translation itself, it is obvious that Christ Himself is quoting the “Septuagint or LXX” of Isaiah 29:13 ‘word to word’ while the Masoretic Text (KJV translation above) is clearly ‘missing’ one phrase completely namely, “7Howbeit in vain do they worship me”.

 

Compare also with the ‘New Testament Verse’ below:

” 7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 15:7 – 9, KJV)

 

 

Did you also notice that only the Masoretic Text has the additional phrase “and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men” which is found neither in the Septuagint for Isiah 29:13 nor in Christ’s Own Words in either Mark 7:6 – 9 or Matthew 15:7 – 9. So, the Masoretic Text here does not just remove a phrase here but also added a phrase here which is only seen when compared to Christ’s. This argument is valid because the phrase “it is Written” is quoted in Mark 7:6 and thus ‘no additional phrase should be present beyond what is written nor removed but may be quoted partially’ as explained next:

 

The phrase “draweth nigh unto me with their mouth” is found in both the Masoretic and Septuagint as per Matthew 15:7 but not in Mark 7:6 as Mark decided not to quote that (a partial quotation to focus on the main points). The Topic in Mark 7:6 – 9 or Matthew 15:7 – 9 as Christ is demonstrating itself is focusing on ‘those who follow the commandments of men’. An Irony indeed.

 

“1{A Psalm of David.} LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? 2He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and SPEAKETH the TRUTH in HIS HEART.” (Psalm 15:1 – 2, KJV)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/kjv/psalms/15.htm

 

or

 

“1A Psalm of David. O Lord, who shall sojourn in thy tabernacle? and who shall dwell in thy holy mountain?  2He that walks blameless, and works righteousness, who SPEAKS TRUTH in HIS HEART.” (Psalm 15:1 – 2, Septuagint or LXX, Brenton Septuagint Translation)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/psalms/15.htm

 

 

God Loves those who Speak the Truth and not those who lie even if the lie sounds like they’re defending God as the Story of Job & his friends demonstrate, Verse:

 

“And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.” (Job 42:7, KJV)

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blessed – Christ never Taught that it refers to the Prosperity Gospel

 

Bible Verses:

 

“Blessed are you poor, For yours is the kingdom of God. … But woe to you who are rich, … For you have received your consolation.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:20, 24, NKJV)

 

The Verse above implies ‘Generally’ that the ‘poor are in a blessed state’ while the ‘rich are in a cursed/woe state’ Gospelwise. The contrast in Verses above itself proves that being “blessed” cannot refer to “being rich”:

 

“… “Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one’s life does not consist in the abundance of the things he possesses.” …” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:15, NKJV)

 

Who are the ‘poor in spirit’ then whom Christ mentions in Matthew 5:3?

 

Those actually “Voluntarily Poor” for the Gospel and those ‘rich who live by sharing their goods for common use’ (Acts 2:44 – 46, Acts 4:32 – ‘Perfect Christian Daily Living’).

 

Equivalent questions:

 

Which Rich Christians want Eternal Life in the First Resurrection?

 

So, which Christian rich man may be Saved?

 

 

 

Direct Biblical New Testament Answer, Verse:

 

 

“17COMMAND those who are RICH in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18Let them DO GOOD , that they be RICH IN GOOD WORKS , READY TO GIVE, WILLING TO SHARE, 19storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on ETERNAL LIFE.” (1 Timothy 6:17 – 19, NKJV)

 

 

Please note that the Verse above clearly Reveals these 5 aspects for a ‘Rich Christian’ to have ‘Eternal Life’ which is not ‘believing only’ (as that’s a dead faith according to James 2):

 

  1. 17COMMAND those who are RICH

 

  1. 18Let them DO GOOD

 

iii. that they be RICH IN GOOD WORKS

 

  1. READY TO GIVE

 

  1. WILLING TO SHARE

 

Please note the word “Command” in Verse above and we know that whatever Blessed Apostle St. Paul “writes” are “Commands of the Lord” (hence not an option according to 1 Corinthians 14:37, the opposite is ‘lawlessness’ warned in Matthew 7:20 – 23’s, the Great Denial). We are both to “do” and “teach” others (the ‘Command’ part in Verse above) as per Christ’s Own Most Blessed Words in Matthew 5:19.

 

If Pastors don’t teach their congregations correctly regarding these four things needed and because of that say a rich person in their midst becomes unsaved (Matthew 7:20 – 23), then would that Pastor himself be Saved to Participate in the “First Resurrection” (Revelation 20:4 – 6) referred to on “that Day” He Returns (Matthew 7:20 – 23)? God Alone Knows. Our duty is done toward them in that we preach it already to whomever we know.

 

*James 2:14 – 17 describes this ‘Dead Faith’ without Works as follows:

“14What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” (James 2:14 – 17, NKJV)

Prosperous Blessed Patriarch Abraham was such a man who did ‘not’ enjoy his riches but shared it abundantly toward others as First Christianity records this Tradition, as discussed in post below:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159563705212784&id=651792783

 

This is great as God Measures Relatively (as per the case of the poor widow, Luke 21:1 – 4) and so Blessed Patriarch Abraham though he was rich but lived ‘Voluntarily Poor’ by “sharing” and “giving” away his riches to friends and strangers is considered very very great because he chose not to enjoy them much whilst having it as post above discusses.

 

‘Scripture interprets Scripture’

 

Let’s not be deceived by the “Prosperity Gospel” and thereby ‘miss’ the “Kingdom of God”, Verses:

 

“So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.” – Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:21, NKJV)

 

Please don’t take Christ’s Own Double Warning lightly:

 

“23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:23 – 24, NKJV)

 

If Christ Repeated this Warning in Verse above twice, I believe we ought to repeatedly remind each other again of it because failing in this would mean that one does “not” enter the ‘Kingdom of God/Heaven’. Please read this again.

 

Worse still, some Christians may “burn” in “fires of Hell” for the Prosperity Gospel (if the Verse below doesn’t refer to such, who does it refer to then?)

 

“Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days.” (James 5:3, NKJV)

 

Please don’t let the lie of Prosperity Gospel rob you of heaven or the treasures in the Heavens.

 

 

 

 

Anyone with even a basic reading of Church History will know that none of the fathers of the Church taught any Prosperity Gospel and in fact Warned against its Dangers, example posts:

 

  1. i) Few Saved Mystery – Believers are not necessarily Disciples

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159456327752784

 

  1. ii) The Greatest Heresy – Promise of His Kingdom without Obedience

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159494010887784

 

iii) Prosperity Gospel – Head on Earth and not the Tail

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159495177182784

 

Wisdom doesn’t Teach to ‘falsely Twist and Pray the Jabez prayer for Prosperity**’ but rather pray ‘not’ to be rich either as follows:

 

“Remove falsehood and lies far from me; Give me neither poverty nor riches— Feed me with the food allotted to me;” (Proverbs 30:8, NKJV based on the Masoretic Text)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/proverbs/30-8.htm

 

or

 

“8Remove far from me vanity and falsehood: and give me not wealth or poverty; but appoint me what is needful and sufficient:” (Proverbs 30:8, Septuagint or LXX, based on Brenton Septuagint Translation)

 

Source: https://biblehub.com/sep/proverbs/30.htm

 

**Jabez was not Praying Prosperity so that he can live in luxury but because he was mistreated by his own family though he is more noble than his brothers, Verses:

 

“9Now Jabez was more honorable than his brothers, and his mother called his name Jabez, saying, “Because I bore him in pain.” 10And Jabez called on the God of Israel saying, “Oh, that You would bless me indeed, and enlarge my territory, that Your hand would be with me, and that You would keep me from evil, that I may not cause pain!” So God granted him what he requested.” (1 Chronicles 4:9 – 10, NKJV)

 

The noble attitude of Jabez means ‘he never got what he deserved while his less noble family was swindling & cursing him’ and also points that ‘he must have shared what he got blessed from God’ and that’s why God Answered his prayer. So, are we like Jabez or praying so that we can live in the Sin of Luxury?

 

Yes Luxury is sin which sent a Rich Man straight to ‘Hell now’ (Hades), Bible Verses:

 

“23And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’.” (Luke 16:23 – 26, NKJV)

 

“You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter.” (James 5:5, NKJV)

 

Source Post:

 

https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/olam-and-lake-of-fire-mystery-in-the-book-of-1enoch/amp/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blessed Patriarch Abraham – the First Man who Entertained Christ Himself and the Angels unawares

 

Question

Was Abraham Rich?

 

Reply

 

Yes, very rich.

 

Bible Verses:

 

1) Even while Abraham was still called by his old name Abram

 

“Abram was very rich in livestock, in silver, and in gold.” (Genesis 13:2, NKJV)

 

2) Till the end of his life, Abraham was super rich

 

“1Now Abraham was old, well advanced in age; and the Lord had blessed Abraham in all things. ” (Genesis 46:1, NKJV)

 

“34So he said, “I am Abraham’s servant. 35The Lord has blessed my master greatly, and he has become great; and He has given him flocks and herds, silver and gold, male and female servants, and camels and donkeys.” (Genesis 24:34 – 35, NKJV)

 

3) Abraham did not keep or enjoy the wealth for himself and his family only but toward strangers too (so certainly toward his servants etc.)

 

To quote:

 

“… The Bible places a high value on hospitality and eating, and sometimes banqueting is the focal point of that hospitality. In Genesis 18:1-8, Abraham is the first person shown opening the door of his home in hospitality to others, in this case to the Lord Himself! The meal, hastily prepared by their time standards, is unusual in that Abraham does not even eat with them! We often feel that we cannot spare the time to do such things, but here is God, the Creator, who finds time in His infinitely busier schedule to sit and wait while Abraham and Sarah prepare a banquet for Him and His companions! The point, however, is that food and eating is the focal point of Abraham’s hospitality. Important events frequently occur on such occasions. …” – John W. Ritenbaugh

Source:

 

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/6166/Abrahams-Hospitality.htm

 

Such a “Hospitable” lifestyle is requirement for the Salvation of a Christian Rich Man as 1 Timothy 6:17 – 19 points as discussed in post below:

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159580036387784&id=651792783

 

And Abraham fulfilled the 1 Timothy 6:17 – 19 lifestyle as required as discussed in link below

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159563705212784&id=651792783

 

Please note that as the Verse in image shows (Hebrews 13:2), where it points to the first person recorded in Holy Scripture to entertain both Christ (Two YHWH-God in Genesis 19:24, the Visible YHWH on Earth in Genesis 18:1) and ‘angels too’ (Genesis 18:2, Genesis 19:1) via “hospitality” unknowingly at first was Blessed Patriarch Abraham himself as discussed in Post above in greater detail.

 

Blessed Patriarch Abraham’s life demonstrated the Faith and Works of a Champion till he was worthily called by Scripture as “Friend of God”, Verse:

 

“23And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” (James 2:23 – 24, NKJV)

 

Please notice carefully that Blessed Apostle St. James the Just writes the Context for Blessed Patriarch Abraham being called a “Friend of God” by not quoting Abraham’s Faith only (James 2:23) but Abraham’s Hospitable Works which match his faith too (next verse, James 2:24). The Bible clearly affirms this Truth and thus let us not be deceived otherwise by ‘half quotes’ of Verses Speaking a ‘half-truth only’.

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apocalypse of Elijah Mystery and why the Old Testament has 24 or 39 Books?

 

1) Bible

 

Was the ‘Apocalypse of Elijah’ possibly quoted in the Bible?

 

“… Origen, Ambrosiaster, and Euthalius ascribe First Epistle to the Corinthians 2:9 to it:

 

Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

 

Epiphanius[1] ascribes to this work Eph. 5:14:

 

Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. …”

 

Source:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_of_Elijah

 

2) Church Fathers and the Earliest Bible Canons

 

“… This apocalypse is mentioned in the Apostolic Constitutions, the List of the Sixty Books, the Synopsis of Pseudo-Athanasius, the Stichometry of Nicephorus, and the Armenian list of Mechithar. … If they are right, the apocalypse is pre-Pauline. The peculiar form in which this quotation appears in Clement of Alexandria, Protrepticus x. 94, and the Apostolic Constitutions vii. 32, shows that both have the same source, probably this apocalypse. …”

 

Source:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_of_Elijah

 

 

 

 

3) Christ Centered Universalism

 

The Christian Version/Preservation of this Apocalypse of Elijah has the following Christ Centered Universalism Prophecy toward those in Gehenna/Lake of Fire after the Prayer of the Righteous for their Salvation “many times”:

 

“… 23.And the fire will prevail over the earth seventy-two cubits. It will consume the sinners and the devils like stubble.

24.A true judgment will occur.

25.On that day, the mountains and the earth will utter speech. The byways will speak with one another, saying, “Have you heard today the voice of a man who walks who has not come to the judgment of the Son of YHWH.”

26.The sins of each one will stand against him in the place where they were committed, whether those of the day or of the night.

27.Those who belong to the righteous and … will see the sinners and those who persecuted them and those who handed them over to death in their torments.

28.Then the sinners [ in torment ] will see the place of the righteous.

29.And thus grace will occur. In those days, that which the righteous will ask for many times will be given to them. …” – Apocalypse of Elijah (Verses 23 – 29)

 

Source:

http://www.3-in-1.net/Pseudepigrapha/Apocalypse%20of%20Elijah/The%20Apocalypse%20of%20Elijah.htm

 

Comment: The Christ Centered Universalism part is Prophesied in Verse 29.

I cannot ascertain anything 100% but I believe it as a very highly likely Possibility.

This Apocalypse of Elijah Book can be one of the ’70 Secret Books’ which Blessed Prophet Ezra himself wrote. Please note that the reason we know that there are 39 books in the Old Testament Canon is because it is recorded ‘outside the Protestant Bible’ in 2 Edsras as follows, to quote:

“… The Hebrew Bible is also the textual source for the Christian Old Testament. The form of this text that is authoritative for Rabbinic Judaism is known as the Masoretic Text (MT) and it consists of 24 books, while the translations divide essentially the same material into 39 books for the Protestant Bible. …”

 

Source:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Bible

 

In other words, these same 24 Books of the Tanakh as Blessed Prophet Ezra decided by Divine Inspiration as the Old Testament Bible/Canon of Scripture is ‘relabeled and split into 39 books by modern protestants’. Another Example quote:

 

“… The Jewish canon has fewer books because it merges works that are separate in the Christian tradition, eg 1 and 2 Kings, 1 and 2 Chronicles, or Ezra and Nehemiah. That 24-book division goes back at least to the end of the first century AD, when it is recorded in 2 Esdras. So, the number of Old Testament books is 24 or 39, and that is no great problem. …”

 

Source:

 

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2016/03/numbering-the-old-testament/

 

So, if we as Christians agree that the Old Testament has 24 books (or equivalently re-labelled as 39 books in modern protestant Bibles), we are agreeing to a ‘out of the 66 books’ Canon numbering of Scripture’ as it is recorded in the 2 Esdras writing which also mentions another mysterious number which is the “70 secret books which Blessed Prophet Ezra also wrote for the Wise as God instructed”, to quote:

 

“… Finally, there is a vision of the restoration of scripture. God appears to Ezra in a bush and commands him to restore the Law. Ezra gathers five scribes and begins to dictate. After forty days, he has produced ninety-four books: the twenty-four books of the Tanakh and seventy secret works: Make public the twenty-four books that you wrote first, and let the worthy and the unworthy read them; but keep the seventy that were written last, in order to give them to the wise among your people.” (2 Esdras 14:45–46 RSV; 4 Ezra 12:45–46) …”

 

Source:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Esdras

 

So, to agree to the 24 (or 39) Books of the Old Testament is to take this record as True in 2 Esdras which in turn implies in its same sentence the truth of the ’70 hidden/secret books to the wise’ which may include this ‘Apocalypse of Elijah’ (which contains a possible Christ Centered Universalism Prophecy as demonstrated earlier) and also more highly possible the ‘Book of 1Enoch’ as also part of these ’70 secret books’ which also has ‘some type of Christ Centered Universalism Prophecy’ as it was discussed in a previous post in link below:

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159548315757784&id=651792783

 

Regarding Blessed Prophet Ezra’s possible list of 70 hidden books, please also consider the post in link below:

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159568863652784&id=651792783

 

Interesting Indeed.

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Epistle of the Apostles – Christ Centered Universalism Hope

 

1) Christ Centered Universalism Prophecy

 

“… 39 And we said unto him: Lord, is this thy purpose, that thou leavest us, to come upon them? (Will all this come to pass, Eth.) He answered and said unto us: After what manner shall the judgement be? whether righteous or unrighteous? (In Copt. and Eth. the general sense is the same: but the answer of Jesus in the form of a question is odd, and there is probably a corruption.) We said unto him: Lord, in that day they will say unto thee: Thou hast not distinguished between (probably: will they not say unto thee: Thou hast distinguished between) righteousness and unrighteousness, between the light and the darkness, and evil and good? Then said he: I will answer them and say: Unto Adam was power given to choose one of the two: he chose the light and laid his hand thereon, but the darkness he left behind him and cast away from him. Therefore have all men power to believe in the light which is life, and which is the Father that hath sent me. And every one that believeth and doeth the works of the light shall live in them; but if there be any that confesseth that he belongeth unto the light, and doeth the works of darkness, such an one hath no defence to utter, neither can he lift up his face to look upon the Son of God, which Son am I. For I will say unto him: As thou soughtest, so hast thou found, and as thou askedst, so hast thou received. Therefore condemnest thou me, O man? Wherefore hast thou departed from me and denied me? And wherefore hast thou confessed me and yet denied me? hath not every man power to live and to die? Whoso then hath kept my commandments shall be a son of the light, that is, of the Father that is in me. But because of them that corrupt my words am I come down from heaven. I am the word: I became flesh, and I wearied myself (or, suffered) and taught, saying: The heavy laden shall be saved, and they that are gone astray shall go astray for ever. They shall be chastised and tormented in their flesh and in their soul. 40 And we said unto him: O Lord, verily we are sorrowful for their sake. And he said unto us: Ye do rightly, for the righteous are sorry for the sinners, and pray for them, making prayer unto my Father. Again we said unto him: Lord, is there none that maketh intercession unto thee (so Eth.)? And he said unto us: Yea, and I will hearken unto the prayer of the righteous which they make for them…” (Epistle of the Apostles, Coptic, Verses 39 – 40 in full)

 

Source:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apostolorum.html

 

Please note that the ‘Epistle of Apostles’ writing above may have preserved this Christ Centered Universalism part without any corruption as there seems to be no variant manuscripts or contradictions to the other preserved versions.

 

2) Is the Epistle of the Apostles Writing Trustworthy?

 

The only argument often used against this Epistle of the Apostles writing is that it seems to predict Christ’s Return within 150 years but that’s not telling the whole story honestly as explained below, to quote:

 

“… One of the reasons that the text probably fell into disuse by the mainstream churches is that its claim that the Second Coming shall be 150 years after the time of the vision to the apostles obviously failed to occur. Whether the text was ever considered heretical by the Catholic churches is unknown, as there are no clear references to it in the extant ancient Christian literature. However, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church evidently accepted it as basic orthodoxy. …”

 

Source:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistula_Apostolorum

 

Explanation, let’s look at the ‘actual quote’:

 

“… 16 Then said we to him: Lord, that which thou hast revealed unto us (revealest, Eth.) is great. Wilt thou come in the power of any creature or in an appearance of any kind ? (In what power or form wilt thou come? Eth.) He answered and said unto us: Verily I say unto you, I shall come like the sun when it is risen, and my brightness will be seven times the brightness thereof! The wings of the clouds shall bear me in brightness, and the sign of the cross shall go before me, and I shall come upon earth to judge the quick and the dead. 17 We said unto him: Lord, after how many years shall this come to pass ? He said unto us: When the hundredth part and the twentieth part is fulfilled, between the Pentecost and the feast of unleavened bread, then shall the coming of my Father be (so Copt.: When an hundred and fifty years are past, in the days of the feast of Passover and Pentecost, &c., Eth.: . . . (imperfect word) year is fulfilled, between the unleavened bread and Pentecost shall be the coming of my Father, Lat.). …” – Epistle of the Apostles (Verses 16 – 17)

Please notice carefully that the Ethiopic one (which is the most complete, which we are referring to primarily) does not have the ‘one hundred fifty years statement’ (as that’s by the ‘Coptic Version only’). In fact, the Ethiopic one having an (imperfect word) or the phrase ‘When the hundredth part and the twentieth part is fulfilled’ may just be a parabolic answer to the ‘exact undetermined years’. What can the phrase ‘ the hundredth part and the twentieth part’ mean parabolically? Verse:

 

“And the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” (Genesis 6:3, NKJV)

 

 

We know that Genesis 6:3 above cannot refer to the literal age only because for example ‘Jeanne Calment (1875–1997) of France, who lived to the age of 122 years’ has exceeded God’s Limit*. So a possible ‘allegorical’ interpretation alongside it could be that the “one hundred years [part] and twenty years [part]” as a limit to man’s age could be referring to man’s free will/choice on earth till God Returns to Judge the World as alluded by the Mysterious Verse in the Epistle of the Apostles (Verses 16 – 17) above. In other words, if we take Genesis 6:3 not to mean literally as some men have exceeded that lifespan, then we need not take Epistle of the Apostles (Verses 16 – 17)’s counting literally either but parabolic too especially since these two “share the same numbers” and “context of years for man’s existence” possibly before God Reveals Himself – Can you see it?

 

*Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_verified_oldest_people

 

3) How was this Text viewed in Ancient Christianity and when was it rediscovered?

 

“… The text is commonly dated to the 2nd century, perhaps towards the middle of it. [1] CE Hill (1999) dates the Epistle to “just before 120, or in the 140s” and places “… the Epistula in Asia Minor in the first half of the second century.” [2] The text was used regularly by the relatively isolated Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and was evidently not considered heretical. The work was lost to the West until 1895 when major portions of it were discovered in the Coptic language and a complete version translated into Ethiopic was discovered and published in the early 20th century.[3] The fragmentary Coptic manuscript of the 5th or 4th century, is believed to be translated directly from the original Greek. One leaf of a Latin palimpsest, dating to the 5th century has also been identified as deriving from the same text.[4] … The text is framed as a letter from the 11 apostles to the worldwide church, as a report from Jesus involving a dialogue between them and Jesus, which occurs between Jesus’s resurrection and ascension.[5] The first 20% (10 chapters) begins by describing the nativity, resurrection, and miracles of Jesus, this framing is only done extremely superficially.The remainder of the text recounts a vision and dialogue between Jesus and the apostles, consisting of about sixty questions, and 41 short chapters. The text is by far the largest epistle in either the New Testament or Apocrypha. …”

 

Source:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistula_Apostolorum

 

and

 

“… . No ancient writer mentions it [by Name], and very few traces of its use can be found: the (third ?)-century poet Commodian seems to use it in one place (see 11). There has so far been no English rendering of the text; my version depends on Schmidt and Guerrier. In the Ethiopic version another writing, a prophecy of our Lord concerning the signs of the end, is prefixed to the Epistle. Parts of the this recur in the Syriac Testament of the Lord and part is repeated in the Epistle itself. It is noteworthy that this prophecy ends with a passage which is identical with one quoted by Clement of Alexandria from a source he does not name he does not name – only calling it ‘the Scripture’. … A similar passage is in the Apostolic Constitutions, vii. 22. On the possible derivation from the Apocalypse of Elias see my Lost Apocrypha of O.T., p. 54. … ”

 

Source:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apostolorum.html

 

Regarding the Text Used in link above, the author writes:

 

“… The authorities for the text are: (a) a Coptic MS. of the fourth or fifth century at Cairo, mutilated; (b) a complete version in Ethiopic; (c) a leaf of a fifth-century MS. in Latin, palimpsest, at Vienna. The only edition which makes use of all the authorities is C. Schmidt’s, 1919. The Ethiopic was previously edited by Guerrier in Patrologia orientalis under the title of Testament of our Lord in Galilee. A notice of the text by Guerrier in the Revue de l’Orient Chretien (1907) enabled me to identify it with the Coptic text, of which Schmidt had given a account to the Berlin Academy. As to the date and character of the book, Sehmidt’s verdict is that it was written in Asia Minor about A.D. 160 by an orthodox Catholic. The orthodoxy has been questioned (see a review by G. Bardy in Revue Biblique, 1921). …”

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apocalypse of Zephaniah – Salvation for the Damned after the Prayer of the Righteous Hope

 

1) Should Christians Read it?

 

There was an ancient Writing of Prophet Zephaniah’s Visit into Hades (Hell compartments and Regions of Comfort) agreeing to Lord Jesus Christ’s Story of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19 – 31).

 

It was lost for centuries but St. Clement of Alexandria* seems to have had it as he quotes Prophet Zephaniah as follows in his infamous “Stromata Book Series” in a quote not found in the Old Testament Zephaniah:

 

“… Rightly, then, in the great Epistle he says: “For it is not capable of expression, like other branches of study. But as the result of great intimacy with this subject, and living with it, a sudden light, like that kindled by a coruscating fire, arising in the soul, feeds itself.” Are not these statements like those of Zephaniah the prophet? “And the Spirit of the Lord took me, and brought me up to the fifth heaven, and I beheld angels called Lords; and their diadem was set on in the Holy Spirit; and each of them had a throne sevenfold brighter than the light of the rising sun; and they dwelt in temples of salvation, and hymned the ineffable, Most High God.”…” – Blessed St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 5, Chapter XI)

 

Source:

 

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book5.html

 

Who is St. Clement of Alexandria? Link below:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_of_Alexandria

 

2) Was it Written by Jews or Christians?

 

It was probably a Vision of Prophet Zephaniah himself as St. Clement of Alexandria clearly quotes a mysterious passage of Prophet Zephaniah which is not in the Bible but could be in this discovered Manuscript as shown above. Most of its contents may be lost but the few fragments which were discovered recently give great insight into First Christianity, to quote:

 

“… The Apocalypse of Zephaniah (or Apocalypse of Sophonias) is a 1st-century pseudepigraphic Jewish text attributed to the Biblical Zephaniah and so associated with the Old Testament, but not regarded as scripture by Jews or any Christian group. It was rediscovered and published at the end of the 19th century… The existence of the Apocalypse of Zephaniah was known from ancient texts (for example the Stichometry of Nicephorus) but it was considered lost. In 1881 two fragmentary manuscripts, probably coming from the White Monastery in Egypt, were bought by the Bibliothèque Nationale of Paris and first published by U. Bouriant in 1885… At the second trumpet, the heavens are opened and Zephaniah sees the sinful souls (which are given body and hair) tormented in a sea of flame until the day when the Lord will judge. He sees also a multitude of saints praying in intercession for those in these torments. The last trumpet mentioned in the fragments prepares for the announcement that the Lord will rise up in his wrath to destroy the earth and the heavens… It clearly distinguishes between the personal judgment occurring immediately after death and the final judgment by the Lord… Souls enter bliss or punishment immediately after the first judgment, while waiting for the Lord’s coming, but the intercession of the saints makes it possible that, for some, punishment may not be definitive…”

 

Source:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_of_Zephaniah

 

3) Content for the Apocalypse of Zephaniah

Each quote below is from the translation source in link below:

http://web.archive.org/web/20100330084339/http://userpages.burgoyne.com/bdespain/progress/progzeph.htm

 

  1. i) The Saved in the Blessed Compartments of Hades onward

 

The 1st trumpet: triumph & visitation of the righteous.

 

“… 91Then a great angel came forth having a golden trumpet in his hand, and he blew it three times over my head, saying, “Be courageous! O one who hath triumphed. Prevail! O one who hath prevailed. For thou hast triumphed over the accuser, and thou hast escaped from the abyss and Hades. 2Thou wilt now cross over the crossing place. For thy name is written in the Book of the Living.” 3I wanted to embrace him, (but) I was unable to embrace the great angel because his glory is great. 4Then he ran to all the righteous ones, namely, Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and Enoch and Elijah and David. 5He spoke with them as friend to friend speaking one with another…” – Apocalypse of Zephaniah (aft 100 B.C. & bef A.D. 70)

 

  1. ii) The Unsaved in Hell or the Punishment Compartments of Hades

 

A 2nd trumpet: opening of heaven & souls in torment.

 

“… 101Then the great angel came to me with the golden trumpet in his hand, and he blew it up unto heaven. 2Heaven opened from the place where the sun rises to where it sets, from the north to the south. 3I saw the sea which I had seen at the bottom of Hades. Its waves came up to the clouds. 4I saw all the souls sinking in it. I saw some whose hands were bound to their neck, with their hands and feet being fettered. 5I said, “Who are these?” He said unto me, “These are the ones who were bribed and they were given gold and silver until the souls of men were led astray.” 6And I saw others covered with mats of fire. 7I said, “Who are these?” He said unto me, “These are the ones who give money at interest, and they receive interest for interest.” …” – Apocalypse of Zephaniah (aft 100 B.C. & bef A.D. 70)

 

iii) Purgatory for Backslidden Christians

 

“.. 8And I also saw some blind ones crying out. And I was amazed when I saw all these works of God. 9I said, “Who are these?” He said unto me, “These are catechumens who heard the word of God, but they were not perfected in the work which they heard.” 10And I said unto him, “Then have they not repentance here?” He said, “Yes,” 11I said, “How long?” He said unto me, “Until the day when the Lord will judge.” 12And I saw others with their hair on them. 13I said, “Then there is hair and body in this place?” 14He said, “Yes, the Lord gives body and hair to them as he desires.”…” – Apocalypse of Zephaniah (aft 100 B.C. & bef A.D. 70)

 

  1. iv) Prayer of Salvation toward the non-Christian damned

 

The intercession of the saints for those in torment.

 

“… 111And I also saw multitudes. He brought them forth. 2As they looked at all of the torments they called out, praying before the Lord Almighty, saying, “We pray unto Thee on account of those who are in all these torments so that Thou might have mercy on all of them.” 3And when I saw them, I said to the angel who spoke with me, “<Who are these?>” 4He said, “These who beseech the Lord are Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. 5Then at a certain hour daily they come forth with the great angel. He soundeth a trumpet up unto heaven and another soundeth upon the earth. 6All the righteous hear the sound. They come running, praying to the Lord Almighty daily on behalf of these who are in all these torments.”…” – Apocalypse of Zephaniah (aft 100 B.C. & bef A.D. 70)

 

  1. v) Future Final Judgment Day

 

Another trumpet: the coming wrath of God.

 

“… 121And again the great angel cometh forth with the golden trumpet in his hand blowing over the earth. 2They hear (it) from the place of the sunrise to the place of the sunset and from the southern regions to the northern regions. 3And again he blows (it) up unto heaven and its sound is heard. 4I said, “O Lord, why left thou me not until I saw them all?” 5He said unto me, “I have not authority to show them unto thee until the Lord Almighty riseth up in his wrath to destroy the earth and the heavens. 6They will see and be disturbed, and they will all cry out, saying, ‘All flesh which is ascribed to Thee we will give unto Thee on the day of the Lord.’ 7Who will stand in His presence when He riseth in His wrath <to destroy> the earth <and the heavens?> 8Every tree which groweth upon the earth will be plucked up with its roots and fall down. And every high tower and the birds which fly will fall … ” – Apocalypse of Zephaniah (aft 100 B.C. & bef A.D. 70)

 

4) Why is it not in the Bible?

 

It was lost and only rediscovered in the 19th century. Apart from St. Clement of Alexandria possibly mentioning it, it may not have been known by some of them or it may have not been scrutinized by early councils or they can’t reach a consensus to it. So, we keep an open mind.

 

Conclusion

 

Interestingly, the Concept of the Righteous Praying for the Salvation of the “Unsaved” to be Saved from Hades is existent in this Text as it was practiced in First Christianity as discussed in a Previous Post too (link below for full reading) which agrees to St. Cyril of Alexandria’s quotes that Post-Mortem evangelization still goes on (based on 1 Peter 4:6, as discussed with First Christianity References by the Infamous ArchBishop Hilarion, book in image) endorsing even Sadhu Sundar Singh’s visions of Post-Mortem Salvation toward some in Hades (Hell now) as true as well (links below too):

https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/the-truth-on-hell-by-the-vision-of-sadhu-sundar-singh/amp/

From the Biography:

https://archive.org/stream/themessageofsadh00streuoft/themessageofsadh00streuoft_djvu.txt

 

or some ‘relatively good non-Christian idolater or atheist saved in Hades/afterlife’ as some of Sundar Singh’s Visions show in link below:

 

https://archive.org/stream/VisionsOfTheSpiritualWorldBySadhuSundarSingh-1926-UploadedBy/VisionsOfTheSpiritualWorldBySadhuSundarSingh-1926_djvu.txt

 

Further Reading on this Topic:

https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/lake-of-fire-hope-for-the-wicked-one-day/amp/

Conclusion

The Verses in image (from the Bible in Zephaniah 3:8 – 10) was the basis used for a Christian Universalism Prophecy argument by the great Blessed Origen of Alexandria in ancient times itself as this is discussed in detail in link below:

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159476604007784

 

Please take note that the Bible’s Zephaniah 3:8 – 10’s “Judgment Day” Salvation for some or all is more clear than the one purported in this write-up via this non-canonized Apocalypse of Zephaniah book by the same prophet’s name. Also, even if God Saves one soul on Judgment Day as per Zephaniah 3:8 – 10 points, it is possible then that He Can Save others even after the Lake of Fire Judgment.

 

 

Peace to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apocalypse of Ezra – Christ Centered Universalism Hope?

 

Again, this is not a 100% doctrinal position as we cannot prove these ancient preserved writings to be completely original or even if the tampered parts are false or not because a Christian Revelation thereafter can be a continuation of the previous Jewish Revelation first, completing it.

 

In this Ancient Christian “Armenian” Writing of Ezra, we see the possibility of Christ Centered Universalism Prophecy via Christians possibly as “Priests” (Revelation 1:6 in image) Praying on behalf of the “Sinners” condemned on ‘Judgment Day’ to be ‘Saved’, to quote:

 

“… Peter Kirby also surveys scholars writing on the questions of Ezra:

 

James Charlesworth writes (The Pseudepigrapha and Modern Research, pp. 117-118):

 

The one extant Armenian manuscript of the Questions of Ezra has not been edited, but parts of it were translated into English by J. Issaverdens (UWOT. Pp. 457-61).

 

The work is Christian, rather late, and apparently influenced by traditions recorded in 1 Enoch, 2 Enoch, the Apocalypse of Abraham, and the Apocalypse of Zosimus. Issaverdens translates six of the questions Ezra asks ‘the Angel of God’; these can be paraphrased as follows:

 

  1. What has God prepared for the righteous and sinners?

 

Ans. For the righteous are prepared rejoicing and light, for sinners darkness and fire.

 

  1. If all men living are sinners and hence deserve condemnation, are not beasts more blessed?

 

Ans. Do not repeat these words to “Him who is above you.”

 

 

 

 

 

  1. Where does the soul go after death?

 

Ans. A good angel comes to a good soul, and a wicked one to a bad soul (cf. ApAb). The soul is taken eastward.

 

  1. What is that way like?

 

Ans. There are seven steps to the Divinity; the righteous soul passes through four steps of terror, one of enlightenment, and two of blessing.

 

  1. Why do you not take the soul to the Divinity?

 

Ans. Ezra is called a vain man (cf. ApZos) who thinks according to human nature. No man or angel can see the face of God, but only the place of God’s throne, which is fiery (cf. 1En 14:18-23, 2En 20).

 

  1. What shall become of “us sinners”?

 

Ans. When you die you will obtain mercy and rest if a Christian prays or performs some act of devotion for you.

 

  1. E. Stone writes: “There is insufficient evidence to determine whether the writing was originally composed in Armenian or whether it wsa translated into Armenian from another language. Possible arguments based on literary considerations will be adduced in the next section. There seems no clear basis for establishing the date except to say that the writing is a Christian composition clearly based on Jewish models. There is no indication of provenace.” (The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, p. 592) …” – Apocalypse of Ezra (the “Armenian Manuscript”)

 

Source:

 

http://www.textexcavation.com/apocalypseezra.html#questezra

Note: Point 6 above proves the possible Christ Centered Universalism Described on Judgment Day henceforth or earlier even now.

Mysterious Indeed.

 

What if God Mysteriously Willed the Final Salvation of the Damned in this Way because the Bible Verses can mean that the Punishment Sentence is eternal but gets cancelled after the Christians ask for it many times as this theme is found in several noteworthy ancient Christian writings, for example in posts below too:

 

  1. i) Apocalypse of Elijah

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159622630577784

 

  1. ii) Book of 1Enoch

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159548315757784

 

or this

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159489970167784

 

iii) Epistle of the Apostles

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159631284097784

 

  1. iv) Apocalypse of Zephaniah

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159631226447784

 

  1. v) Jewish Christian Sibyline Oracles – a Tradition by Blessed and Great St. Paul the Apostle?

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158298054362784

 

  1. vi) Jewish Targums

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158865159207784

 

vii) Apocalypse of Peter

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158849943722784

 

viii) Arguments for Hell is not Eternal using Bible Verses using the same words Olam/Aeon

 

https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10159410771327784

 

  1. ix) Arguments for the Possibility that Olam/Aeon used to denote Exactly 1000 Years by Christ Himself

 

https://web.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10159511823312784

 

  1. x) Three Types of Men: Elect, Righteous and Sinners Categorization Mystery?

 

https://web.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10159489956072784

“For we know in part and we prophesy in part.” (1 Corinthians 13:9, NKJV)

 

The Verse in 1 Corinthians 13:9 Speaks of “Prophesy in part” and ‘not prophesy in full’ by even St. Paul the Great Apostle of Christ Himself. That is why it is ‘possible’ that the ‘other Books’ listed here (e.g. ‘Apocalypse of Elijah’ or ‘Book of 1Enoch’) may complete the Judgment Day Prophecy of the ‘Apocalypse of John’ found in the Bible as the ‘Book of Revelation’. Perhaps, God’s Judgment is more Complex than assumed. Only God Alone Knows and my intention here is to present here honestly according to these ancient writings/beliefs as it was popular in early Orthodox Christianity regarding these aspects which leaves us in Wonder of our Greatest Saviour, God in Flesh Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ to Whom All Things are Possible. Amen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Peace to you

 

Anonymous Christian

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