Judgment – God Judges No One – Saves All – Wrath Context
First Christianity taught that God is NOT angry at ALL His Creatures. Really?
Says who?
“… let us look steadfastly unto the Father and Maker of the whole world, and cleave unto His splendid and excellent gifts of peace and benefits. Let us behold Him in our mind, and let us look with the eyes of our soul unto His long-suffering will. Let us note how free from anger He is towards all His creatures.” – St. Clement of Rome* (c. 35 AD – 99 AD, 1 Clement 19:2 – 3)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/1clement-lightfoot.html
Focus Phrase proving our claim: “how free from anger He is towards all His creatures”
I repeat with emphasis: “how free from anger He [God the Father] is towards ALL His creatures [and not toward Christians only]”
Can you see it?
*For Roman Catholics: Pope Clement I
Conclusion
To Judge, one needs to be angry. Hence God the Father Judges no one proves that He is not angry with anyone (an absolute statement as the Verse in Image & St. Clement of Rome’s quote agree).
Here are the Biblical Facts agreeing to this Exegesis:
Christ’s Personal Word only Judges a Person into which ‘Resurrection one participates in on the Last Day, be it to life or to Judgment’ (John 5:25, John 5:28 – 29).
The ‘Resurrection of Judgment’ is to be Understood as per Point 4 below. Why? Christ accuses no one in Principle of Verse below:
“Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:45, NASB)
iii. Relatively Innocent Victims (Genesis 4:10, Revelation 6:10, Psalm 9:12)
Please note that the “souls” (this word exists in Revelation 6:9, thus implied in the ‘afterlife abodes’) are crying out for vengeance for their ‘blood which was spilled wrongfully’ (Revelation 6:10).
Souls slain means that ‘the souls are separated from the body by being killed on earth prior’ as the ‘spirit (with soul) is separated from the body at death’ (James 2:26).
Some Judgments are demanded by the innocent ones toward their enemy counterparts on earth itself. For example, it is the ‘innocent babies who were first dashed to the rocks’ (Verse Psalm 137:8) who are demanding the Judgment of their enemies’ babies to be dashed to the rock likewise (next Verse, Psalm 137:9, Context) which is sometimes granted by ‘spiritual authorities who govern now’ be it the good (Hebrews 2:2) or the bad (Ephesians 6:12).
**Hell = Collectively, Afterlife Judgment by Default toward all men (Hebrews 9:27) except Christians in faith (John 5:24) in Sheol/Hades with their souls now (Luke 16:19 – 31) or some even in a resurrected body later too in Gehenna (Matthew 10:28) or the ‘Lake of Fire’ (Revelation 20:11 – 15).
Christ ‘executes the Judgment Sentences’ which we have ‘demanded’ (by the parties aforementioned in point 3 above) which is ‘on behalf’:
“and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:27, NASB)
So, when God says, ‘Vengeance is Mine…’ (Romans 12:19), He Repays later according to the collective decision of victims post Judgment (Matthew 5:21 – 23).
We are either forgiven in this life itself if we make amends toward the person whom we have wronged (Matthew 5:24) or according to the measure we have judged (Matthew 7:1 – 2, Matthew 6:15) or forgiven others (Matthew 6:14), we may face even into the Final Judgment in ‘Gehenna’ (Lake of Fire) too (Matthew 5:22) as these victims, accusers and opponents (Matthew 5:23 – 24) may cause this afterlife Judgment to last ’till the last cent’ accordingly (Matthew 5:25 – 26) after the aforementioned factors are taken into account as it is Parabolically Revealed in these Consecutive Verses (in Matthew 5:21 – 26 in the Context of ‘Gehenna or Lake of Fire’ as mentioned in Matthew 5:22).
This is true Exegesis even toward the Final ‘Lake of Fire’ Judgment even as both Matthew 5:21 – 26 agree with Luke 12:57 – 59 and Matthew 18:23 – 35 regarding this Context perfectly. Please note that the Perfection of the Father (Matthew 5:48) includes allowing the Final Judgment of ‘Gehenna’ (i.e. metaphorically refers to the Lake of Fire as St. Ireneaous pointed out) in this manner (Matthew 5:22) as Described in Matthew 5:21 – 26 where God/Christ has passed on the Decision of Judgment to ‘us’ to ‘decide’ as per point 3 as it is explained therein.
A Christian can only decide a Sentence regarding the Cases which affected them directly (1 Corinthians 6:2 – 3) as to whether to demand ‘punishment cum correction till the last penny’ or ‘forgive them unconditionally’ (Acts 7:59 – 60).
A Christian’s choice to Love unconditionally by Forgiving unconditionally as with the case of the First Christian Martyr, Stephen (Acts 7:60) toward those who stoned him to death (Acts 7:59) decides his ‘better resurrection’ (in principle of Hebrews 11:35) for a ‘Greater Beauty/Glory’ accordingly (1 Corinthians 15:39 – 43 , Matthew 5:19).
“… But let neither this trouble you, nor the still harder saying delivered in another place in the words, “Whoso hateth not father, and mother, and children, and his own life besides, cannot be My disciple.” For the God of peace, who also exhorts to love enemies, does not introduce hatred and dissolution from those that are dearest. But if we are to love our enemies, it is in accordance with right reason that, ascending from them, we should love also those nearest in kindred. Or if we are to hate our blood-relations, deduction teaches us that much more are we to spurn from us our enemies. So that the reasonings would be shown to destroy one another. But they do not destroy each other, nor are they near doing so. For from the same feeling and disposition, and on the ground of the same rule, one loving his enemy may hate his father, inasmuch as he neither takes vengeance on an enemy, nor reverences a father more than Christ. For by the one word he extirpates hatred and injury, and by the other shamefacedness towards one’s relations, if it is detrimental to salvation. If then one’s father, or son, or brother, be godless, and become a hindrance to faith and an impediment to the higher life, let him not be friends or agree with him, but on account of the spiritual enmity, let him dissolve the fleshly relationship.” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – c. 215 AD)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-richman.html
Source:
https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158153558547784
“for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God.” – apostle James (James 1:20, NASB)
Man’s Definition of Hate is cancelled (Matthew 5:43) and Christ Reveals that God’s Hate toward such (that’s why they are called ‘enemies’) is still ‘Agape’ (Loved less) in the next Verse, Matthew 5:44 (Context):
“You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and HATE your ENEMY.’ “But I say to you, LOVE your ENEMIES and pray for those who persecute you,” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:43 – 44, NASB)
Apostle Paul agrees that these ‘enemies (hated ones) in the Context of the Gospel’ are still “Beloved” (AGAPE) in the ‘irrevocable calling of God’ who will be shown Mercy eventually too in Verses below (post afterlife Judgment Context as apostle Paul discussed afterlife Judgments first say in Romans 11:12, 20 – 21 toward being part of the First Resurrection & Millennial Reign Post Resurrection, implied Jewish Context, Luke 20:35 – 36, Revelation 20:4 – 6):
“From the standpoint of the GOSPEL they are ENEMIES for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are BELOVED for the sake of the fathers; for the GIFTS and the calling of God are IRREVOCABLE … For God has shut up ALL in DISOBEDIENCE so that He may show MERCY to ALL … For from Him and through Him and to Him are ALL THINGS. To Him be the glory forever [to the AGES, AEONS]. Amen.” – apostle Paul (Romans 11:28, 29, 32, 36, NASB)
iii) All are Children of God but Christians, the Elect gain the highest Inheritance in His Kingdom (e.g. as Priests & Kings, Revelation 1:6, Revelation 5:10) while the others do NOT (1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10) in His Kingdom which Begins with His 1000 Years Millennial Reign Visibly on Earth (Revelation 20:4 – 6).
What is the True Meaning of Sons of God vs sons of the Devil?
Who says all are still Children of God where the difference between obedient vs disobedient Children is getting inheritance vs not getting inheritance in His Kingdom?
St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD):
” Since, therefore, all things were made by God, and since the devil has become the cause of apostasy to himself and others, justly does the Scripture always term those who remain in a state of apostasy “SONS of the DEVIL” and “angels of the wicked one” (maligni). For [the word] “son,” as one before me has observed, has a twofold meaning: one [is a son] in the order of nature, because he was born a son; the other, in that he was made so, is reputed a son, although there be a difference between being born so and being made so. For the first is indeed born from the person referred to; but the second is made so by him, whether as respects his creation or by the teaching of his doctrine. … For as, among men, those sons who DISOBEY their fathers, being DISINHERITED, are STILL THEIR SONS in the course of NATURE, but by LAW are DISINHERITED, for they do NOT become the HEIRS of their natural parents; so in the SAME WAY is it with God,-those who do NOT OBEY Him being DISINHERITED by Him, have CEASED to be His sons. Wherefore they CANNOT RECEIVE His INHERITANCE…” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XLI, Point 2 and Point 3)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
The Context in which Holy Scripture is clear as Irenaeous implies the Paternal Love of the Father that ALL are HIS SONS due to being CREATED by HIM, hence HIS CHILDREN.
However, in regards to ‘obedience and doctrine’, the ‘sons of the Devil are those who disobey and hence do NOT inherit His Kingdom’ (1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10, e.g. may just ‘enter only’ to live in some OUTSIDE permitted regions of the ‘kingdom of the heavens’ and NOT the heavens, please take note ‘carefully’, being the ‘least’ due to Command-Breaking Matthew 5:19) vs in Contrast, ‘His Sons of obedience & doctrine’ INHERIT His Kingdom (e.g. highest positions such as KING & PRIESTS too, Revelation 1:6, Ephesians 3:6 and beyond!, 1 Corinthians 2:9 being the ‘Great’ in His Kingdom of the Heavens too, Matthew 5:19).
(which implies that all men will be Saved eventually, 1 Timothy 4:10 even the reconciliation of some from the Lake of Fire as Revelation 22:17 Mysteriously Prophesies but the believers are more special in Physical Glory, 1 Corinthians 15:37 – 42, in inheritance, Romans 8:17, even in gradation of those saved first, Matthew 13:23, inclusive of those saved in spirit only first, 1 Corinthians 5:5, 1 Peter 4:6 toward those who break His Commandments too – Matthew 5:19, in the Context of All Law and Prophets, Matthew 5:17 – 18 first – John 12:32) —-> Please see “P/S” below for an ’empirical spiritual vision evidence regarding this’ (an example).
Please note that he quotes the below in the Context of “Resurrection and Judgment” (links to the ‘Resurrection of Judgment’ in John 5:28 – 29) where the Result is Still Universal Salvation in the End as the Damaged ‘Body + Soul in Gehenna’ (Matthew 10:28) may be ‘Vivified (Healed)’ by God post-Judgment.
St. Theophilus of Antioch says that Men who do NOT repent on earth, the hardened clay as St. Clement of Rome calls it above are ‘Remoulded by Force’ after breaking it up’ (during afterlife Judgments in Hades or in the Lake of Fire or both)
To Quote:
“And God showed great kindness to man in this, that He did not suffer him to remain in sin for ever; but, as it were, by a kind of banishment, cast him out of Paradise, in order that, having by punishment expiated, within an appointed time, the sin, and having been disciplined, he should afterwards be restored. Wherefore also, when man had been formed in this world, it is mystically written in Genesis, as if he had been twice placed in Paradise; so that the one was fulfilled when he was placed there, and the second will be fulfilled after the resurrection and judgment. For just as a vessel, when on being fashioned it has some flaw, is remoulded or remade, that it may become new and entire; so also it happens to man by death. For somehow or other he is broken up, that he may rise in the resurrection whole; I mean spotless, and righteous, and immortal. And as to God’s calling, and saying, Where art thou, Adam? God did this, not as if ignorant of this; but, being long-suffering, He gave him an opportunity of repentance and confession.” – St. Theophilus of Antioch (Died c. 183 AD, Chapter XXVI, Book II, THEOPHILUS TO AUTOLYCUS)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/theophilus-book2.html
Context of ‘Universal Salvation after the Resurrection of Judgment’ (John 5:29) in the above, please note these words ‘carefully’ from the above:
“… when MAN had been formed in this world … mystically written … twice placed in Paradise … and the second will be fulfilled after the resurrection and judgment….”
Generally toward MAN –> hence, ‘all men’ too.
This is PROPHETICALLY implied in Revelation 21:5 as God makes ‘All things New’ through the Lake of Fire too (Consecutive Verse Context, Revelation 21:8) where in the End, these “thirsty” ones from the Lake of Fire are Reconciled to Christ (Colossians 1:16, 20) as Prophetically mentioned by the “Spirit” (God) and His “Bride” (Church, Sheepfold1) too in Revelation 22:17 ‘freely’.
“The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.” (Revelation 22:17, NASB)
What did First Christianity Preach regarding the ‘Destruction of the Soul’?
To quote:
“We must meet, therefore, those who say, that even though it be the special handiwork of God, and beyond all else valued by Him, it would not immediately follow that it has the promise of the resurrection. Yet is it not absurd, that that which has been produced with such circumstance, and which is beyond all else valuable, should be so neglected by its Maker, as to pass to nonentity? Then the sculptor and painter, if they wish the works they have made to endure, that they may win glory by them, renew them when they begin to decay; but God would so neglect His own possession and work, that it becomes annihilated, and no longer exists. Should we not call this labour in vain? As if a man who has built a house should forthwith destroy it, or should neglect it, though he sees it falling into decay, and is able to repair it: we would blame him for labouring in vain; and should we not so blame God? But not such an one is the Incorruptible,–not senseless is the Intelligence of the universe. Let the unbelieving be silent, even though they themselves do not believe.
But, in truth, He has even called the flesh to the resurrection, and promises to it everlasting life. For where He promises to save man, there He gives the promise to the flesh. For what is man but the reasonable animal composed of body and soul? Is the soul by itself man? No; but the soul of man. Would the body be called man? No, but it is called the body of man. If, then, neither of these is by itself man, but that which is made up of the two together is called man, and God has called man to life and resurrection, He has called not a part, but the whole, which is the soul and the body. Since would it not be unquestionably absurd, if, while these two are in the same being and according to the same law, the one were saved and the other not? And if it be not impossible, as has already been proved, that the flesh be regenerated, what is the distinction on the ground of which the soul is saved and the body not? Do they make God a grudging God? But He is good, and will have all to be saved. And by God and His proclamation, not only has your soul heard and believed on Jesus Christ, and with it the flesh, but both were washed, and both wrought righteousness. They make God, then ungrateful and unjust, if, while both believe on Him, He desires to save one and not the other. Well, they say, but the soul is incorruptible, being a part of God and inspired by Him, and therefore He desires to save what is peculiarly His own and akin to Himself; but the flesh is corruptible, and not from Him, as the soul is. Then what thanks are due to Him, and what manifestation of His power and goodness is it, if He purposed to save what is by nature saved and exists as a part of Himself? For it had its salvation from itself; so that in saving the soul, God does no great thing. For to be saved is its natural destiny, because it is a part of Himself, being His inspiration. But no thanks are due to one who saves what is his own; for this is to save himself. For he who saves a part himself, saves himself by his own means, lest he become defective in that part; and this is not the act of a good man. For not even when a man does good to his children and offspring, does one call him a good man; for even the most savage of the wild beasts do so, and indeed willingly endure death, if need be, for the sake of their cubs. But if a man were to perform the same acts in behalf of his slaves, that man would justly be called good. Wherefore the Saviour also taught us to love our enemies, since, says He, what thank have ye? So that He has shown us that it is a good work not only to love those that are begotten of Him, but also those that are without. And what He enjoins upon us, He Himself first of all does.” – St. Justin Martyr (‘FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION’ CHAPTER VIII)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-resurrection.html
Conclusion
Firstly, his definition of ‘body, soul and spirit’ (Context) in which the above is to be understood (from this same writing/source):
“The resurrection is a resurrection of the flesh which died. For the spirit dies not; the soul is in the body, and without a soul it cannot live. The body, when the soul forsakes it, is not. For the body is the house of the soul; and the soul the house of the spirit. These three, in all those who cherish a sincere hope and unquestioning faith in God, will be saved.” (‘FRAGMENTS OF THE LOST WORK OF JUSTIN ON THE RESURRECTION’ CHAPTER X)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-resurrection.html
Please note the following carefully in St. Justin Martyr’s own words regarding the Topic of the “Soul” in regards to the “Resurrection” from the above:
“These three [Body, Soul, Spirit], in all those who cherish a sincere hope and unquestioning faith in God, will be saved” – St. Justin Martyr
The Destruction of the Soul of some in Gehenna (Matthew 10:28) is NOT till it ceases to exist.
“but God would so neglect His own possession and work, that it becomes annihilated, and no longer exists” – St. Justin Martyr
The above quote must refer to Gehenna (Lake of Fire or Hell) since nowhere else in Holy Scripture it is Written that both the ‘Body + Soul’ is Destroyed during the Final Resurrection of Judgment toward the Wicked (John 5:29, Matthew 10:28, Daniel 12:2, Revelation 20:11 – 15).
iii) Soul of the Wicked too has Hope
“it would not immediately follow that it has the promise of the resurrection. Yet is it not absurd, that that which has been produced with such circumstance, and which is beyond all else valuable, should be so neglected by its Maker, as to pass to nonentity?” – St. Justin Martyr
The “it” in the above = [the Soul of the Wicked, right?] because it does ‘not immediately have the promise of Resurrection’, as do the souls of believers (or the righteous), right?
Yes, as St. Justin quotes it Generally toward “Man” & hence ‘all men’ (implied by usage):
“But, in truth, He has even called the flesh to the resurrection, and promises to it everlasting life. For where He promises to save man, there He gives the promise to the flesh.” – St. Justin Martyr
” For what is man but the reasonable animal composed of body and soul? Is the soul by itself man? No; but the soul of man. Would the body be called man? No, but it is called the body of man. If, then, neither of these is by itself man, but that which is made up of the two together is called man, and God has called man to life and resurrection, He has called not a part, but the whole, which is the soul and the body. ” – St. Justin Martyr
“Should we not call this labour in vain? As if a man who has built a house should forthwith destroy it, or should neglect it, though he sees it falling into decay, and is able to repair it: we would blame him for labouring in vain; and should we not so blame God? But not such an one is the Incorruptible,–not senseless is the Intelligence of the universe. Let the unbelieving be silent, even though they themselves do not believe.” – St. Justin Martyr
vii) Some Body + Soul must be destroyed or neglect or die or decay first before Renewal
“… should be so neglected by its Maker, as to pass to nonentity? … renew them when they begin to decay; but God would so neglect His own possession and work, that it becomes annihilated, and no longer exists. … As if a man who has built a house should forthwith destroy it, or should neglect it, though he sees it falling into decay, and is able to repair it: we would blame him for labouring in vain; and should we not so blame God? But not such an one is the Incorruptible,–not senseless is the Intelligence of the universe. Let the unbelieving be silent, even though they themselves do not believe.” – St. Justin Martyr
Please note that the analogy of “house” in the above refers to St. Justin’s own definition that he views the ‘body and soul’ the houses for the ‘soul and spirit’ respectively (Context here – as the link implies when read in full). Can you see it?
viii) Both Body and Soul will be Saved by Regeneration (Healing, Vivified) too
“And if it be not impossible, as has already been proved, that the flesh be regenerated, what is the distinction on the ground of which the soul is saved and the body not? Do they make God a grudging God? But He is good, and will have all to be saved.” – St. Justin Martyr
“And by God and His proclamation, not only has your soul heard and believed on Jesus Christ, and with it the flesh, but both were washed, and both wrought righteousness. They make God, then ungrateful and unjust, if, while both believe on Him, He desires to save one and not the other.” – St. Justin Martyr
All Men as well as metaphorically described as follows:
God does NOT Save believers in faith only (Sheepfold1, His Own Body, His Church, His Bride) in this Context of ‘Body + Soul’ being Saved eventually
“But no thanks are due to one who saves what is his own; for this is to save himself. For he who saves a part himself, saves himself by his own means, lest he become defective in that part; and this is not the act of a good man. For not even when a man does good to his children and offspring, does one call him a good man; for even the most savage of the wild beasts do so, and indeed willingly endure death, if need be, for the sake of their cubs.” – St. Justin Martyr
xii. God does Saves His Slaves too (Sheepfold2) in this Context of ‘Body + Soul’ being Saved eventually
“But if a man were to perform the same acts in behalf of his slaves, that man would justly be called good.” – St. Justin Martyr
xiii. God does Saves His Enemies too (the Wicked, those ‘not begotten of him’, in Justin’s word below ‘also those that are without’) in this Context of ‘Body + Soul’ being Saved eventually
“Wherefore the Saviour also taught us to love our enemies, since, says He, what thank have ye? So that He has shown us that it is a good work not only to love those that are begotten of Him, but also those that are without. And what He enjoins upon us, He Himself first of all does.” – – St. Justin Martyr
So, it is obvious hat St. Justin Martyr fully Described the Salvation of Body + Soul to apply to ‘All Flesh’ (all human being eventually) as Described in his quotes above where some is only post afterlife Judgment in Gehenna or the Lake of Fire where these ‘bodies + souls’ are ‘destroyed’ first (his analogies of ‘decay’, ‘neglect’, ‘destroy’ in the above means – Matthew 10:28) agreeing Perfectly to Christ’s Prophesied Completion of His Work (John 17:4) Accordingly in the Majestic Verse below (John 17:2):
New American Standard Bible
even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.
St. Justin Martyr’s Allegorical Description mixed with literal exegesis above is similar to the conclusion derived (in simpler words) by St. Clement of Alexandria likewise too ‘regarding God Saving All eventually’ (based on 1 John 2:2), to quote:
“Ver. 2. “And not only for our sins,”–that is for those of the faithful,–is the Lord the propitiator, does he say, “but also for the whole world.” He, indeed, saves all; but some [He saves], converting them by punishments; others, however, who follow voluntarily [He saves] with dignity of honour; so “that every knee should bow to Him, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth;” that is, angels, men, and souls that before His advent have departed from this temporal life.” – St. Clement of Alexandria (‘Fragments’)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-fragments.html
“and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.” – apostle John (1 John 2:2, NASB)
This Makes sense of the Messianic Psalm 22:29’s inclusiveness of “… Even he who cannot keep his soul alive.” by Christ’s Redemptive Work on the Cross as explained in Previous Posts.
Is St. Clement of Alexandria a Reliable Witness?
Link below:
https://web.facebook.com/groups/124357780953661/permalink/2426020840787332/
or this link too:
https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158160896692784.
Mysterious Lost Writings of Theodore in Support of Christ Centered Universalism
To quote:
“Photius mentions that Theodore wrote three books on “Persian Magic”, which not only attacked Zoroastrianism, but according to Photius betrayed his “Nestorian” views in the third book, and DEFENDED BELIEF in the FINAL RESTORATION of ALL MEN.”
Source:
http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Theodore_of_Mopsuestia
Long before Martin Luther & the Protestant Reformation, Bishop Theodore of Mopsuestia Denied the ‘Veneration of Mary’ Doctrine which is Legendary as there is NO other Mediator between Man & God other than God in Flesh, Lord Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5), to quote:
“Theodore “expounded Scripture in all the churches of the East,” says John of Antioch (ibid. ii.2), with some literary license, and adds that in his lifetime Theodore was never arraigned by any of the orthodox. But in a letter to Nestorius (ibid. x.2) John begs him to retract, urging the example of Theodore, who, when in a sermon at Antioch he had said something which gave great and manifest offence, for the sake of peace and to avoid scandal, after a few days as publicly corrected himself. Leontius tells us that the cause of offence was a DENIAL to the VIRGIN MARY of the title THEOTOKOS. So great was the storm that the people threatened to stone the preacher (Cyril of Alexandria Ep. 69). The heretical sects attacked by Theodore showed their resentment in a way less overt, but perhaps more formidable. They tampered with his writings, hoping thus to involve him in heterodox statements (Facund. x.1).”
Source:
http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Theodore_of_Mopsuestia
Is Theodore Reliable?
At Most, Theodore’s Nestorianism (in his writings, if true) were CONDEMNED and NOT his Christ Centered Universalism where Nestorianism was an ancient Christian heresy associated with Nestorius (c. 386–c. 451 C.E.), Patriarch of Constantinople, who taught that Christ consisted of two distinct persons (human and divine Logos), rather than a unified person.
How did “other orthodox saints” during or close to his time view him?
To quote:
“The popularity—and later the criticism—of Theodore increased following his death.
Theodoret of Cyrrhus regarded him as a “doctor of the universal church.”
Cyril of Alexandria relates that “We believe as Theodore believed; long live the faith of Theodore!” was a cry often heard in the churches of the East (Ep. 69).
When the bishops of Syria were called on to criticize his view, they reportedly replied: “We had rather be burnt than condemn Theodore” (Ep. 72).
Source:
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Theodore_of_Mopsuestia
Some Claim that Theodore of Mopsuestia (whose writings have been lost to us) is not a Universalist.
Really?
Here are two proofs:
To Quote:
“This Theodore is believed to be Theodore of Mopsuestia, since he mentions with approval the heresy of Nestorius, especially in the third book. He also foolishly talks of the restoration of sinners to their former condition.” – Photius (Chapter 81, BIBLIOTHECA OR MYRIOBIBLON)
Source:
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/photius_03bibliotheca.htm#4
To quote:
“Theodore of Mopsuestia AD 359 to AD 429 said: “The wicked who have committed evil the whole period of their lives shall be punished till they learn that, by continuing in sin, they only continue in misery. And when, by this means, they shall have been brought to fear God, and to regard him with good will, they shall obtain the enjoyment of his grace. For he never would have said, ‘until thou hast paid the uttermost farthing,’ unless we can be released from suffering after having suffered adequately for sin; nor would he have said, ‘he shall be beaten with many stripes,’ and again, ‘he shall be beaten with few stripes,’ unless the punishment to be endured for sin will have an end.” [Gregorio el Nazianceno, Assemani Bib. Orient. Tom. iii.]
Source:
https://www.triumphofmercy.com/blog/the-duration-of-punishment-5-of-8?view=full#_edn8
Truly, ‘God is Love’ (1 John 4:8) plus nothing.
“Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.” (Proverbs 28:5, KJV)
What is Perfection of our Attitude toward others who are wrong & when we are dying as a result of their actions?
“… Jesus was saying, “Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.” (Luke 23:34, NASB)
“And he [the believing thief] said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him [the thief – who believed, John 5:24], Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43, KJV)
[Emphasis mine throughout in Brackets]
P/S: Is there Empirical Evidence for this Claim by Reliable Christian Witness?
Yes to quote:
Can a NON-Christian be Saved upon entering the Spirit World?
Example: The case of an IDOLATER
To Quote:
THE MANIFESTATION OF CHRIST
“I saw in a vision the spirit of an IDOLATER on reaching the world of spirits begin at once to search for his god. Then the saints said to him, “There is no god here save the One True God, and Christ, who is His manifestation.”
At this, the man was a good deal astonished, but being a sincere seeker after truth, he frankly admitted that he had been in error. He eagerly sought to know the correct view of truth, and asked if he might see the Christ.
Shortly after this Christ manifested Himself in a dim light to him, and to others who had newly arrived in the world of spirits, because at this stage they could not have endured a full exhibition of His glory, for His glory is so surpassing that even the angels look on Him with difficulty, and cover their faces with their wings (Isaiah 6:9).
When He does reveal Himself to any one He takes into account the particular stage of progress to which that soul has attained, so He appears dimly, or in the fuller light of His glory, that the sight of Him may be endured. So, when these spirits saw Christ in this dim but attractive light, they were filled with a joy and peace, which is beyond our power to describe.
Bathed in the rays of His life-giving light, and with the waves of His love, which constantly flow out from Him, flowing over them, ALL THEIR ERROR was WASHED AWAY. Then with all their hearts, they acknowledged Him as the Truth, and found healing, and, bowing in lowly adoration before Him, thanked and praised Him. And the saints, who had been appointed for their instruction; also rejoiced over them.” Sadhu Sundar Singh
Translation Source:
https://reluctant-messenger.com/sadhu-sundar-singh.htm
Comment: But doesn’t the Bible Teach that IDOLATERS do NOT inherit the ‘Kingdom of God’ (1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10)?
Yes, to quote (from Page 84 of ‘Lost Orthodoxy’ Book):
The Context in which Holy Scripture is clear as Irenaeous implies the Paternal Love of the Father that ALL are HIS SONS due to being CREATED by HIM, hence HIS CHILDREN.
However, in regards to ‘obedience and doctrine’, the ‘sons of the Devil are those who disobey and hence do NOT inherit His Kingdom’ (1 Corinthians 6:9 – 10, e.g. may just ‘enter only’ to live in some OUTSIDE permitted regions of the ‘kingdom of the heavens’ and NOT the heavens, please take note ‘carefully’, being the ‘least’ due to Command-Breaking Matthew 5:19) vs in Contrast, ‘His Sons of obedience & doctrine’ INHERIT His Kingdom (e.g. highest positions such as KING & PRIESTS too, Revelation 1:6, Ephesians 3:6 and beyond!, 1 Corinthians 2:9 being the ‘Great’ in His Kingdom of the Heavens too, Matthew 5:19).
Source:
Yes, the Spiritual Visions of Sadhu Sundar Singh agrees Perfectly to this Exegesis that God Judges no one and Will Save All in the end, for example:
“The Sadhu believes firmly in retribution. But he regards this as being brought about by an internal necessity, an inevitable degeneration of the personality which brings its own punishment in that it completely incapacitates for the life of Heaven. He does not regard
it as the expression of the Divine anger, for God to him is wholly seen in Christ, and, to recall a saying of his already quoted, “Jesus Christ is never annoyed with anybody. ”
Source:
https://archive.org/stream/themessageofsadh00streuoft/themessageofsadh00streuoft_djvu.txt
The Concept of Punishment to the ‘ages’ (or AEONS) vs ‘forever’ is mysteriously mentioned in one of his visions below too where ‘God can still Decide either way’ (implied):
“On this one of the angels said, “If spirits of this kind were not kept down in the darkness or the bottomless pit, then they would cause immense harm wherever they might go. This man’s conscience is so dead, that even after he has reached the world of spirits, he fails to recognise that, by murdering and robbing in the world, he has wasted his own spiritual discernment and life. He killed and destroyed others, but in reality he has destroyed himself. God alone knows if this man, and those who are like him, will remain in torment for ages or forever.”
Source:
https://livres-mystiques.com/partieTEXTES/SundarSing/visions.html
During his last Visions, Sadhu Sundar Singh was revealed the same conclusion as per the Reconciliation from the Lake of Fire Context (for Revelation 22:17) as per First Christianity’s Sibyline Oracles, Apocalypse of Peter, Apocalypse of Elijah (Elias) writings (as quoted in previous write ups), to quote [salvation after the ‘ages of Ages’ or ‘aeons of Aeons’ maximum sentence, Revelation 20:10]:
“No spirit can exist forever, if separated from God by sin or evil. It must either cease to exist or return to God who is the source of life. There is no spirit which will ever cease to exist; therefore every spirit finally must return to God, even though it may be after ages of ages” – Sadhu Sundar Singh ( 1928 )
[SINGH, Sundar. Letter of the Sadhu, november 12, 1928. In: APPASAMY, A. J.. Sundar Singh: A Biography. Cambridge: The Lutterwoh Press, 1958, p. 217.]
Source:
Peace to you
P/S 2: Ages or Olam or AEONS Concept
“… For through her fasting and her humiliation she entreated the all seeing Master, the God of the ages; and He, seeing the humility of her soul, delivered the people
for whose sake she encountered the peril.” – St. Clement of Rome (c. 33 AD – 99 AD, 1 Clement 55:6)
Or this phrase, “King of the AGES [AEONS]”
“For Thou, O heavenly Master, King of the ages, givest to the sons of
men glory and honor and power over all things that are upon the
earth. …” – St. Clement of Rome (c. 33 AD – 99 AD, 1 Clement 61:2)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/1clement-lightfoot.html
“Now this age and the future are two enemies.” – St. Clement of Rome (c. 33 AD – 99 AD, 2 Clement 6:3)
I repeat with emphasis:
“Now this age [AEON1] and the future [“age”, AEON2] are two enemies.” – St. Clement of Rome (c. 33 AD – 99 AD, 2 Clement 6:3)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/2clement-lightfoot.html
Hence, the equivalent phrases in his writing should be ‘age, age-during, ages, ages of Ages etc.’ as it is in the Bible respectively instead of ‘forever, eternal, everlasting or forever and ever’ whenever these ‘AEON-phrases occur in Koine Greek’.
iii. St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c.130 AD – c. 202 AD) affirms that even the strongest ‘Aeons of the Aeons’ or ‘ages of Ages’ phrase (e.g. in Revelation 20:10) means to the “ages” (subset) out of the total “Ages”.
“Paul also, they affirm, very clearly and frequently names these Aeons, and even goes so far as to preserve their order, when he says, “To all the generations of the Aeons of the Aeon.” Nay, we ourselves, when at the giving of thanks we pronounce the words, “To Aeons of Aeons” do set forth these Aeons. And, in fine, wherever the words Aeon or Aeons occur, they at once refer them to these beings.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter III, Book I)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html
In the translation in link above, it’s written exactly the same as above except for one part, quoted below:
‘words, “To Aeons of Aeons” (for ever and ever),’
Please note that I ommited the added phrase “(for ever and ever)” which St. Irenaeous did NOT write but is added by copyist or translator (that’s why it’s in the brackets – Can you see it now who is speaking truth?)
*Interjection* – Please read in link below (with a photo of the actual Greek Copy proof too) that the ‘forever and ever’ in bracket is ‘added’ by the translator and is NOT found in St. Irenaeous’ Original Writing:
https://www.facebook.com/785428511491071/posts/2453927084641197/
Continued:
St. Irenaeous clearly affirms that the phrase “aeons of Aeons” is NOT idiomatic but refers only to the smaller “aeons” (literal reading as in the Young’s Literal Translation, YLT Bible), in his words proving this claim:
“… Nay, we ourselves, when at the giving of thanks we pronounce the words, “To Aeons of Aeons” do set forth these Aeons…”
Yes, we (true Christians) – – – > “do set forth these Aeons” when reading the phrase “To Aeons of Aeons”.
The common ground between the ‘Gnostic heretics’ and ‘true Christians’ using the phrase “aeons of Aeons” is that the former refers to it as some type of ‘being’ (or living creature) while the latter (e. g. St. Irenaeous) believes it to mean the reference of limited but unknown long time only, i. e. the “aeons” or “ages” as explained by St. Irenaeous in quote above (‘Context’).
Yes, St. Irenaeous’ confirmation of “time order of Aeons” (example: AEON1, AEON2, AEON3 etc.) is “Biblical” as St. Irenaeous own words above prove irrefutably, quoted again below for clarity:
“Paul also, they affirm, very clearly and frequently names these Aeons, and even goes so far as to preserve their order,” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons
The phrase ‘they [the Gnostic Heretics] affirm’ points that even the Gnostic heretics know this truth but only that the Gnostic heretics manipulate it to mean some type of living creature as St. Irenaeous says,
“And, in fine, wherever the words Aeon or Aeons occur, they [the Gnostic Heretics] at once refer them to these beings.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons
Also, St. Irenaeous of Lyons indicates that apostle Paul’s usage of “Aeons” must be literal for example the phrase “Aeons to come” (in Ephesians 2:7) must thus refer ‘literally’ to ‘AEON2, AEON3,… ‘ (plural – at least two future ages) while the Blashphemy of the Holy Spirit is only punished in the current “Aeon” (AEON1) and the next “coming aeon” (AEON2) establishing hope in AEON3 onward.
Likewise, Matthew 25:46 refers to AEON2 as explained in previous posts.
I repeat with EMPHASIS:
“… know NOT how to read [apostle] Paul. … And he [apostle Paul] says, “the unbelievers of THIS AGE, [AEON, AGE1],” because they shall NOT INHERIT the FUTURE AGE [AEON, AGE2] of Incorruption … So therefore, in such passages, the hyperbaton must be exhibited by the reading, and the apostle’s meaning following on, preserved; and thus we do NOT read in that passage, “the god of THIS AGE, [AEON, AGE1],” but, “God,” whom we do truly call God; and we hear [it declared of] the UNBELIEVING and the BLINDED of THIS AGE, [AEON, AGE1], that they shall NOT INHERIT the AGE [AEON, AGE2] of life which is TO COME [next AGE, next AEON, Future – AGE2].” (Irenaeous, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 3, Chapter VII, Point 1 & Point 2)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
Please note that Irenaeos basically ‘repeats himself twice’ in the above that the ‘unbelieving’ of THIS CURRENT AGE, AEON1 —> shall NOT inherit ‘life’ & ‘incorruption’ in the NEXT AGE, AEON2 and that there is also at least AEON3 (based on Ephesians 2:7) proving that the next AEON2 is NOT eternal as explained by Irenaeous’ own writing too (in the previous post below – under the Topics, ‘Aeons of the Aeons – ages of Ages – St. Irenaeous of Lyons on the Eternal Age Heresy’ and ‘All Things – Aeons – Salvation of All – Secrets from St. Irenaeous of Lyons’ – for example):
From the Bible:
“… ‘Verily I say to you, that there is not one who left house, or parents, or brothers, or wife, or children, for the sake of the reign of God, who may not receive back manifold more in this time, and in the COMING AGE, LIFE AGE-DURING.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 18:29 – 30, YLT)
Please note the following carefully from the ‘same root Greek Word Aion/Eon meaning Age’ as whether it’s a noun or adjective from Verse above:
“in the COMING AGE, LIFE AGE-DURING.”
That is:
in the COMING AGE (Singular) = AEON2
LIFE AGE-DURING = Life in AEON2
Please note that the current ‘Age or Aeon’ is labelled AEON1 in the Lost Orthodoxy Book (example Verse speaking of this Current Age, AEON1 is Matthew 28:20).
“so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 2:7, NASB)
I repeat for Emphasis:
“so that in the AGES to COME [AEON2, AEON3, …] He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 2:7, NASB)
All things – Faith of Jesus Christ – Which All things Context?
This is the END:
“then comes the END, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be ALL in ALL.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28, NASB)
The “All things” or “All Created things” or just “All” Koine Greek in these ‘factual Verses’ :
“YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET.” For in subjecting all things to Him, He left nothing that is not subject to Him. But now we do NOT YET see all things subjected to Him.” – Anonymous (Hebrews 2:8, NASB)
“… But now we do NOT YET see all things subjected to Him.” – Anonymous (Hebrews 2:8, NASB)
“… In his book against Marcion, Justin does well say: “I would not have believed the Lord Himself, if He had announced any other than He who is our framer, maker, and nourisher. But because the only-begotten Son came to us from the one God, who both made this WORLD and formed us, and contains and ADMINISTERS ALL THINGS, SUMMING UP [Ephesians 1:9 – 10] His own handiwork in Himself, my faith towards Him is steadfast, and my love to the Father immoveable, God bestowing both upon us.” – – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XIII, Book III)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
Ephesians 1:8 – 10 for Comparison:
“which He lavished on us. In all WISDOM and insight He made known to us the MYSTERY of His Will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an ADMINISTRATION suitable to the FULLNESS of the TIMES, that is, the SUMMING UP of ALL THINGS in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him ” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 1:8 – 10, NASB)
*FULLNESS of the TIMES = in the “AGES [Aeons] to COME” (Ephesians 2:7)
Conclusion
“namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their [the world’s] trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.” – apostle Paul (2 Corinthians 5:19, NASB)
Yes, the Fore Runner for Lord Jesus Christ himself Prophesied this to be the Final Triumph as Christ will remove all “sin (singular) of the world” by His “Ransom for All” in its “own times to be testified or come true as a Testimony” (1 Timothy 2:6), to quote:
“The next day he [John the Baptist] saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world” – apostle John (John 1:29, NASB)
“We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.” – apostle John (1 John 4:14, NASB)
This Was the True Orthodoxy of the Earliest Church of Lord Jesus Christ in First Christianity which believed that not only the “the church” (believers) will be saved, but “all men” too eventually though some post afterlife Judgments (implied, 1 Timothy 4:10), to quote:
“… And undoubtedly the preaching of the Church is true and stedfast, in which one and the same way of salvation is shown throughout the whole world. For to her is entrusted the light of God; and therefore the “wisdom” of God, by means of which she SAVES ALL MEN, “is declared in [its] going forth; it uttereth [its voice] faithfully in the streets, is preached on the tops of the walls, and speaks continually in the gates of the city.” For the Church preaches the truth everywhere, and she is the seven-branched candlestick which bears the light of Christ…” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book V)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
Please note the phrase “SAVES ALL MEN” in quote above to realize this in St. Irenaeous’ own words above accurately as follows:
Christ is Both the Saviour of Believers in Faith (Church) and All Men too
“For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 4:10, KJV)
Hence, St. Irenaeous’ Conclusion of the Church which Declares the Wisdom of God in the Context of God Who ‘Saves All Men’ as it is Going Forth Beautifully agrees with 1 Timothy 2:1,4,6, 1 Corinthians 15:20 – 23, Romans 5:18 – 19, Titus 2:11, John 12:32 and 1 Timothy 4:10 too in order of “Time” (Proper Context – 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 Corinthians 15:23, Ephesians 1:9 – 11).
Please note the phrase containing “all men” as opposed to the ‘church only’ carefully in the above, emphasized here:
“… “WISDOM” of GOD, by means of which she SAVES ALL MEN, “is DECLARED in [its] GOING FORTH; …” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book V)
Yes, the Church which preaches the Salvation of “all men” declaring it going forth by the WISDOM OF GOD is described as follows by St. Irenaeous of Lyons in the above:
“she is the seven-branched candlestick which bears the light of Christ” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book V)
Please note that the word “offer” does NOT occur in the Original Koine Greek for Titus 2:11 which plainly reads the Glorious Truth St. Irenaeous declared above:
“For the GRACE of God has appeared, bringing SALVATION to ALL MEN,” – apostle Paul (Titus 2:11, NASB)
Yes, His MERCY or GRACE is to “All in disobedience/unbelief” eventually causing Salvation (Verses below) including the Context of His “Enemies” too (Consecutive Verses prior, Romans 11:30 – 31 and especially Romans 11:28 in that the “Love-election or beloved” toward these “enemies of the Gospel” cannot be removed, Romans 11:29):
Disobedience cannot stop Universal Reconciliation in Lord Jesus Christ eventually post Judgment:
“From the standpoint of the GOSPEL they are ENEMIES for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are BELOVED for the sake of the fathers; for the GIFTS and the calling of God are IRREVOCABLE … For God has shut up ALL in DISOBEDIENCE so that He may show MERCY to ALL … For from Him and through Him and to Him are ALL THINGS. To Him be the glory forever [to the AGES, AEONS]. Amen.” – apostle Paul (Romans 11:28, 29, 32, 36, NASB)
Unbelief cannot stop Universal Reconciliation in Lord Jesus Christ eventually post Judgment:
“As concerning the GOSPEL, they are ENEMIES for your sakes: but as touching the ELECTION, they are BELOVED for the fathers’ sakes. For the gifts and CALLING of God are without REPENTANCE … For God hath concluded them ALL in UNBELIEF, that He might have MERCY upon ALL… For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are ALL THINGS: to whom be glory for ever [AGES]. Amen.” – apostle Paul (Romans 11:28, 29, 32, 36, KJV)
“For what if some did NOT BELIEVE? shall their UNBELIEF make the FAITH of GOD without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; …” – apostle Paul (Romans 3:3 – 4, KJV)
The Verses above clearly points to ‘liars being those who claim that the FAITH of God or Lord Jesus Christ’s Perfect Faith’ can be stopped from achieving Universal Redemption toward “All” due to ‘unbelief’; can you see it?
Please note the accurate definition:
“Faith of God” (literally in Romans 3:3) = “Faith of Jesus Christ” (Romans 3:22) = Lord Jesus Christ’s Perfect Faith to Save the World and All Creation in it.
To quote,
“Even the Righteousness of God which is by FAITH of JESUS CHRIST unto ALL and upon ALL THEM that BELIEVE: for there is no difference: For ALL have SINNED, and come short of the glory of God; Being JUSTIFIED FREELY by His GRACE through the REDEMPTION that is in Christ Jesus:” – apostle Paul (Romans 3:22 – 24, KJV)
Apostle Paul clearly speaks of two ‘All’s’ in Verses above where —-> the EFFECT of the FAITH of God applies to Unbelievers too eventually (Romans 3:3 – 4) —–> causing JUSTIFICATION of REDEMPTION toward them (Romans 3:24) —–> toward ALL who SINNED (Romans 3:23) —–> which includes ALL MEN (Romans 5:18) who will BE MADE RIGHTEOUS (Romans 5:19) FREELY (Romans 3:24) —-> toward ALL who SINNED eventually (Romans 3:23) —-> as the RIGHTEOUSNESS of GOD through the FAITH of JESUS CHRIST is IMPUTED toward ALL (not believers only, Romans 3:22) —-> but among “ALL who BELIEVE” it is added further that there is “no difference” (Romans 3:22 later part to – 23, Galatians 3:26 – 29).
In the “present time” (on earth, ‘today’), only believers become recipients of this (Romans 3:26):
“To DECLARE, I say, at THIS TIME His righteousness: that He might be Just, and the JUSTIFIER of him which BELIEVETH in JESUS.” – apostle Paul (Romans 3:26, KJV)
So, believers are NOT the only ones saved for all time but the firstfruits (and not the ‘only fruits of His Salvation’) being the first ones to be Saved because His Mercy is on Man and not on the dispensation of this AGE (AEON, “time”), to quote —> Please see the “P/S: at the end of this write up (for a fuller explanation).
“… He [God] may have MERCY upon ALL; ” not saying this in reference to spiritual Aeons, but to MAN, … ” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book III, Chapter XX, second part of Point 3)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
Yes, in the above St. Irenaeous debunks the popular theological myth that God’s Mercy is only available for the ‘time period of now, this age [this AEON]’ —> in his words, “not saying this in reference to spiritual Aeons, but to MAN” — which means that God’s Mercy is to MAN and NOT to the ‘availability in a Time period of an AEON or AGE’ – Can you see it?
Indeed, Christians are the ‘first fruits’ but the rest of men will be ‘made alive’ by Christ in his ‘own order’ of time (1 Corinthians 15:20 – 23):
“In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that WE [Christians] would be a kind of FIRST FRUITS AMONG HIS CREATURES.” – apostle James (James 1:18, NASB)
Believers’ Salvation (the “Church”) is different from others and is in many ways being more special but all men will be Saved eventually too (Matthew 5:19, 1 Timothy 4:10, John 12:32). To quote:
“… for God has displayed LONG-SUFFERING in the case of MAN’s APOSTASY; while man has been instructed by means of it, as also the prophet says, “THINE OWN APOSTASY shall HEAL THEE; ” God thus DETERMINING ALL THINGS BEFOREHAND [Ephesians 1:11] for the BRINGING of MAN to PERFECTION [Ephesians 1:9 – 10], for his edification, and for the revelation of His DISPENSATIONS, that goodness may both be made apparent, and righteousness perfected, and that the CHURCH may be FASHIONED after the IMAGE of His Son, and that MAN may FINALLY be brought to MATURITY at SOME FUTURE TIME, becoming ripe through such privileges to see and comprehend God.” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 4, Chapter XXXVII)
Source:
http://gnosis.org/library/advh4.htm
So, the Salvation of ALL MEN will eventually take place and the duty of the True Seven Candlestick Church of Christ is to DECLARE its GOING FORTH as St. Irenaeous Revealed in his quote above too.
This is the meaning of “Mercy which Triumphs over [and ENDS] Judgment” after a “Judgment without Mercy is endured first” by some whose works were such, to quote:
“For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.” – apostle James (James 2:13, NASB)
Indeed,
“So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to ALL MEN, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to ALL MEN. For as through the one man’s disobedience THE MANY were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One THE MANY will be made righteous.” – apostle Paul (Romans 5:18 – 19, NASB)
Yes, this is the True Meaning Set forth in Verses above too (in Correct Context), says who?
With the above Context established in First Orthodox Quotes of the Church as shown, the Doctrine of Recapitulation of Man in the Context of God Saves all Men (i.e. His Will be Done) makes Perfect Sense in “Time” (Dispensations of God), to quote:
The Many many sinners in Adam is the same Many which will be Made Righteous by Lord Jesus Christ (Proper Context for Romans 5:18 – 19)
Under the Equation:
‘Adam + the Many’ = All Men = All Human Beings Ever Existed
Lord Jesus Christ is exempt from the equation above simply because He is God in Flesh and not a mere Man only & Alone is never affected by Adam’s sin in any way.
Says who?
“… For as by the disobedience of the one man who was originally moulded from virgin soil, the many were made sinners, and forfeited life; so was it necessary that, by the obedience of one man, who was originally born from a virgin, [the] many should be justified and receive salvation. Thus, then, was the Word of God made man, as also Moses says: “God, true are His works.” But if, not having been made flesh, He did appear as if flesh, His work was not a true one. But what He did appear, that He also was: God recapitulated in Himself the ancient formation of man, that He might kill sin, deprive death of its power, and vivify man; and therefore His works are true.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XVIII, Book III)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
We Believe and Declare Likewise.
Peace to you
P/S: How did St. Irenaeous of Lyons or First Christianity Understand Romans 11:32?
In Particular:
How did Irenaeous Understand apostle Paul’s Last Word on Judgment – which is ‘MERCY to ALL eventually (in Romans 11:32)?’
Irenaeous does NOT speak of ‘any availability’ NOR does he refer to the ‘all’ in Romans 11:32 to refer to ‘believers only or the sheep only’ but also INCLUSIVE of the DISOBEDIENT too – Shocked?
So was I when I read the following (which PROVES the CONTEXT of UNIVERSAL SALVATION for ALL MEN true when Romans 11:32 is quoted), as Irenaeous himself APPROVES it as follows:
“… Just as the physician is proved by his patients, so is God also revealed through MEN. And therefore Paul declares, “For God hath concluded ALL in UNBELIEF, that He [God] may have MERCY upon ALL; ” not saying this in reference to spiritual Aeons, but to MAN, who had been DISOBEDIENT to God, and being CAST OFF from IMMORTALITY, then OBTAINED MERCY, receiving through the Son of God that adoption which is [ACCOMPLISHED] byHimself… ” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book III, Chapter XX, second part of Point 3)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
Please note carefully that Irenaeous speaks of MEN (who are sick generally being SINNERS, as the Context of the Great Physician is set forth first).
Next, Irenaeous Speaks of the ‘Mercy to All’ —> not as an offer, nor as an availability or any part on the ‘will of men’ (agreeing to Romans 9:15 – 16) though popular theology errs otherwise greatly in this
– Can you see it? —-> but as an ACCOMPLISHED Fact evidenced by
the phrase ‘OBTAINED MERCY’ toward those ‘CAST OFF from IMMORTALITY’ due to His Work Alone.
In other words, Irenaeous does NOT discuss any ‘availability or the will of man’ when quoting Romans 11:32 proving that these are irrelevant to the context of MERCY which depends on GOD’s WILL ALONE (Romans 9:15 – 16).
Next, Irenaeous clearly sets forth the SAME Prophetic Tone in Inspired Scripture by apostle Paul in that ALL in UNBELIEF or those who have been DISOBEDIENT to God will first be CAST OFF from IMMORTALITY (enduring the AGE-DURING Judgment in Gehenna Fire, Matthew 25:46) where their MORTAL parts of the BODY and SOUL will be DESTROYED (Matthew 10:28) but these will eventually been shown MERCY, not as an offer or availability within an Aeon but as a REALITY in that they will OBTAIN that MERCY, Romans 11:32 (which Triumphs and ENDS that afterlife Judgment Sentence too, James 2:13) as even the Infamous Sibyline Prophecies (in link below) clearly records in agreement to all this as well:
First Christianity – First Resurrection vs General Resurrection – Millennial Reign of the Messiah
Firstly, why is this Context-Search important?
“But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,” – apostle Peter (2 Peter 1:20, NASB)
Wait, what is First Christianity?
To prove that ‘the current doctrine you believe using these same Verses’ is the ‘true meaning in First Christianity’, please quote (with proof/reference) which is the ‘first recorded earliest Christian manuscript’ that speaks the ‘same’ as your claim using these same Verses.
I will do so with St. Ireneous of Lyons (c. 130 AD – c.202 AD), St, Justin Martyr (100 AD – 160 AD), St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 AD – 215 AD), Hippolytus of Rome (170 AD – 235 AD) & the ‘Christian-Jewish adaptation Sibyline Oracles’ (80 AD – 250 AD) in a while.
Fact: The Resurrection of the Just (Luke 14:14) = The First Resurrection (1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18) is followed by the Messiah’s Millennial Reign for a Thousand Years literally on earth (Revelation 20:4 – 6), to quote:
“Then, too, Isaiah himself has plainly declared that there shall be joy of this nature at the Resurrection of the Just, when he says:… This is what the Lord declared: “Happy are those servants whom the Lord when He cometh shall find watching. Verily I say unto you, that He shall gird Himself, and make them to sit down [to meat], and will come forth and serve them. And if He shall come in the evening watch, and find them so, blessed are they, because He shall make them sit down, and minister to them; or if this be in the second, or it be in the third, blessed are they.” Again John also says the very same in the Apocalypse: “Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.” Then, too, Isaiah has declared the time when these events shall occur;” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XXXIV, Book V)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
Did you notice that St. Irenaeous is quoting Luke 12:35 – 48 to refer to ‘the Servant – the Jews’ during this 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ Context in the quote above?
Yes, this proves the claim that ‘the Servant- Israel’ during the Millennial Reign is described parabolically in Matthew 25:14 – 18) and ‘this Servant’ is Judged at the end of the Millennial Reign as described in Matthew 25:19 – 30 ‘after a long time’ (Verse 19, NASB) which refers to this span of 1000 years accordingly.
Please note that Christians (Sheepfold1 – Jew & Gentiles who believe in Christ) being part of the First Resurrection have been perfected during this time, becoming trained for Immortality & Incorruption (Luke 20:35 – 36, ‘those worthy’).
Yes, the phrase “waiting for their master when he returns from the wedding feast” (Luke 12:36, NASB) itself reveals that Sheepfold1 already the ones Saved during this Millennial Reign Time (Matthew 25:1 – 13 – the Word ‘marriage or wedding’ links this parabolic context for this Great Mystery – Ephesians 5:32).
This implies that the ‘Judgment of the Lake of Fire’ at the End of that Millennial Reign toward the Wicked Servants (Matthew 25:26 – 30) are Described to be ‘limited & proportional’ accordingly (Luke 12:46 – 48, in these latter Verses for this ‘same topic’, Context).
Conclusion – Matthew 25’s Context
Sheepfold1 = Christians (Jew or Gentile, Galatians 3:22 – 29, ‘faith-sons of God’ context or Colossians 3:10 – 12 during these ‘Renewal times’, NASB) = believers of ‘faith’ only = Matthew 25:1 – 13
Israel-Servant = Matthew 25:14 – 30, based on St. Irenaeous’ Luke 12:35 – 48 Context which ties these two set of Verses up
Gentiles = Matthew 25:31 – 46.
Further Accurate Breakdown:
Sheepfold2-Israel-Servant = Matthew 25:19 – 23
Sheepfold2-Gentiles = Matthew 25:34 – 40
Wicked-Goat-Israel-Servant = Matthew 25:24 – 30
Wicked-Goat-Gentiles= Matthew 25:41 – 46
P/S: Sibyline Oracles match with Matthew 24 – 25’s Timeline
“240 And there shall be a rising of the dead;
The running of the lame shall be most swift,
The deaf shall bear, the blind shall see, and those
That talk not shall talk, and to all
Shall life and wealth be common. And the land
275 Alike for all, divided not by walls
Or fences, shall bear more abundant fruits.
And fountains of sweet wine and of white milk
And honey it shall give. . . .
. . . . . . .
And judgment of the immortal God (great king).
280 But when God shall change times . . .
Winter producing summer, then shall be
Oracles (all fulfilled) . . .
But when the world has perished . . .
JESUS CHRISTI SON OF GOD, SAVIOUR, CROSS.
And the earth shall perspire, when there shall be
285 The sign of judgment. And from heaven shall come
The King who for the ages is to be,
Present to judge all flesh and the whole world.” (Sibyline Oracles, Book VIII)
Source:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/sib/sib10.htm
Can you see it?
Here are the quotes above separated according to its Chronological Timeline Order (with Matthew 25 Verse Matching):
(i) First Resurrection (Matthew 25:1 – 12 – Sheepfold1, Christians)
“240 And there shall be a rising of the dead;”
(ii) 1000 years Millennial Reign of the Messiah (Jewish Oracles – Matthew 25:14 – 18)
“The running of the lame shall be most swift,
The deaf shall bear, the blind shall see, and those
That talk not shall talk, and to all
Shall life and wealth be common. And the land
275 Alike for all, divided not by walls
Or fences, shall bear more abundant fruits.
And fountains of sweet wine and of white milk
And honey it shall give. . . .
. . . . . . .
And judgment of the immortal God (great king).
280 But when God shall change times . . .
Winter producing summer, then shall be
Oracles (all fulfilled) . . .”
Note: During this time, the ‘Kingdom (Reign) of the Heavens’ is Described as follows in Matthew 25:14 which refers to the ‘times of the Kingdom’ or this ‘Millennial Reign’ to fulfill all the ‘Jewish Oracles’:
“For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country…” (KJV)
“For it is just like a man about to go on a journey,…” (NASB)
(iii) Rest of the Dead (Sheepfold2 + Wicked) are Resurrected somewhere during the last ‘hour that is coming’ on this Last Day (John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2)
“JESUS CHRISTI SON OF GOD, SAVIOUR, CROSS.
And the earth shall perspire, when there shall be
285 The sign of judgment.”
Note: The Phrase ‘the earth shall perspire’ refers to the Resurrection of Sheepfold2 and the Wicked during the ‘hour that is coming’ on this Last Day
(iv) Judgment Day at the End of the Millennial Reign toward Israel, the Servant first (Matthew 25:19 – 30) and the Gentiles next (Matthew 25:31 – 46)
“285 The sign of judgment. And from heaven shall come
The King who for the ages is to be,
Present to judge all flesh and the whole world.”
Note: The phrase ” after a long time” (Matthew 25:19, NASB) refers to ‘When the thousand years are completed’ (Revelation 20:7, NASB).
Please note that the Christian Sibyline Oracles as quoted are endorsed by the earliest Church leaders from apostle Paul (as quoted by St. Clement of Alexandria), St. Justin Martyr, Bishop Theophilus of Antioch, Lactantius and even St. Augustine himself, source (Wikipedia & Sub Topic titled ‘Sibyline Oracles – Should a Christian Read it?’ in latter link below):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibylline_Oracles
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/hell-if-gods-love-is-unconditional-why-does-hell-exist/
Salvation from Hades into a better Intermediate State awaiting the Resurrection of the Body at the Last Day (John 11:24) either at the ‘hour now is’ or ‘hour which is coming’ on this Last Day of this Age (John 5:25).
Verses:
“The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.” (Matthew 27:52 – 53, NASB)
Context from First Christianity:
“… He Descended …” – The Apostles Creed (AD 390)
“If, then, the Lord descended to Hades for no other end but to preach the Gospel, as He did descend; it was either to preach the Gospel to all or to the Hebrews only. If, accordingly, to all, then all who believe shall be saved, although they may be of the Gentiles, on making their profession there;… Further the Gospel says, “that many bodies of those that slept arose,” [Matthew 27:52 – 53]– plainly as having been translated to a better state. There took place, then, a universal movement and translation through the economy of the Saviour.” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c.150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book VI)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
“and increase ye in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ; to him is the glory both now, and to the Day of the Age! Amen.” – apostle Peter (2 Peter 3:18, YLT)
Hence in the Jewish Context, the Phrase ‘Day of the Age’ (in Verse above) refers to this ‘Last Day’ of this ‘Age (AEON1)’ which is the 1000 years Millennial Reign of the Messiah as a ‘Day is like a thousand years for the Lord’ (2 Peter 3:8, Psalm 90:4); Indeed, this is the “Sabbath of Rest only for Sheepfold1, the Hallowed Seventh Day”:
“But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that “many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XXX, Book V)
“For in as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded. And for this reason the Scripture says: “Thus the heaven and the earth were finished, and all their adornment. And God brought to a conclusion upon the sixth day the works that He had made; and God rested upon the seventh day from all His works.” This is an account of the things formerly created, as also it is a prophecy of what is to come. For the day of the Lord is as a thousand years; and in six days created things were completed: it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the sixth thousand year.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XXVIII, Book V)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
“… But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare… For Isaiah spake thus concerning this space of a thousand years: … And there shall be no more there a person of immature years, or an old man who shall not fulfil his days. For the young man shall be an hundred years old; but the sinner who dies an hundred years old, he shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and shall themselves inhabit them; and they shall plant vines, and shall themselves eat the produce of them, and drink the wine. They shall not build, and others inhabit; they shall not plant, and others eat. For according to the days of the tree of life shall be the days of my people;… Then shall the wolves and the lambs feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox; but the serpent[shall eat] earth as bread. They shall not hurt or maltreat each other on the holy mountain, i saith the Lord.’ Now we have understood that the expression used among these words, ‘According to the days of the tree[of life] shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound’ obscurely predicts a thousand years. For as Adam was told that in the nay fie ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal [AGE-DURING] resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. …” – St. Justin Martyr (100 AD – 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, CHAPTER LXXX & CHAPTER LXXXI)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Please note that only Sheepfold1 (Christians, believers of faith), the ‘few find life’ in this time (Matthew 7:13) enter into this 7th Day Rest (Matthew 7:20 – 23, Hebrews 4:1 – 3, Hebrews 4:9 – 10, Matthew 25:1 – 13) while the rest (Sheepfold2, Wicked) will not and are Judged for it (Hebrews 4:4 – 6, Hebrews 4:11).
P/S 2: First Christianity – Sheepfold1 vs Sheepfold2
Did First Orthodox Christians understand two badge of righteous (raised at different times in a bodily resurrection, Sheepfold1 vs Sheepfold2) as Claimed above?
Yes, where the Context for understanding is:
“… with the TRUMPET of God, and the dead in Christ will RISE FIRST.” – apostle Paul (1 Thessalonians 4:16, NASB)
First Resurrection to life during the ‘hour now is’ on the Last Day of this Age = Sheepfold1, Christians, believers in faith only (John 10:14, John 6:53 – 54, John 3:16 , Revelation 19:7 – 10, Revelation 20:4 – 6, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18, the-hour-now-is-in-John 5:25).
“The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the First Resurrection.” (Revelation 20:5, NASB)
Yes, this First Resurrection is not for some particular saints but ‘all believers in Christ’ (none excluded if their faith is true, whether ‘dead in Christ’ or ‘alive at that time’), to quote:
“… the dead in Christ will rise first… Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.” – apostle Paul (1 Thessalonians 4:16 – 17, NASB)
“… John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him [Revelation 20:4 – 6], that THOSE who BELIEVED in our CHRIST would dwell a THOUSAND YEARS in Jerusalem; … Just as our Lord also said, ‘They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection [Luke 20:35 – 36].’.” – St. Justin Martyr (100 AD – 160 AD, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, CHAPTER LXXXI)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Second Resurrection to life = Sheepfold2 (John 10:16, John 6:40, John 3:14 – 15), the righteous not of faith but of good works made alive by Christ during the ‘hour is coming’ on this Last Day of this Age (the-hour-is-coming-in-John 5:25) & are raised simultaneously with the wicked (John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2, Revelation 20:11 – 15) to be Judged in front of the Judgment Throne after the 1000 years Millennial Reign & the First Resurrection are over (Revelation 20:5).
iii. The First Resurrection and the Second Resurrection (called the ‘General Resurrection’ in Orthodox writings such as by St. Irenaeous of Lyons, St. Justin Martyr and Hippolytus of Rome too) are are separated by 1000 years on this Last Day (Revelation 20:5). The also proves that the ‘hour now is’ and the ‘hour is coming’ on the Last Day are separated by 1000 years & that there are two resurrections to life during those separate hours as implied by the Blessed Word of our Lord in John 5:25 itself.
Says who?
Both St. Irenaeous and Hippolytus of Rome, to quote:
First Resurrection of the Just (Righteous by Faith with Works, Sheepfold1, Christians) by both St. Irenaeous of Lyons and Hippolytus of Rome
To Quote:
“… If, then, God promised him the inheritance of the land, yet he did not receive it during all the time of his sojourn there, it must be, that together with his seed, that is, those who fear God and believe in Him, he shall receive it at the RESURRECTION of the JUST. For His seed is the Church, which receives the adoption to God through the Lord… And for this reason the Lord declared, “When thou makest a dinner or a supper, do not call thy friends, nor thy neighbours, nor thy kinsfolk, lest they ask thee in return, and so repay thee. But call the lame, the blind, and the poor, and thou shall be blessed, since they cannot recompense thee, but a recompense shall be made thee at the RESURRECTION of the JUST.” And again He says, “Whosoever shall have left lands, or houses, or parents, or brethren, or children because of Me, he shall receive in this world an hundred-fold, and in that to come he shall inherit eternal life.” For what are the hundred-fold [rewards] in this word, the entertainments given to the poor, and the suppers for which a return is made? These are [to take place] in the TIMES of the KINGDOM, that is, upon the SEVENTH DAY, which has been sanctified, in which God rested from all the works which He created, which is the TRUE SABBATH of the righteous, which they shall not be engaged in any earthly occupation; but shall have a table at hand prepared for them by God, supplying them with all sorts of dishes.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c.130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5,Chapter XXXII, and Chapter XXXIII, both Point 2)
“66. Concerning the RESURRECTION of the RIGHTEOUS [Just], Paul also speaks thus in writing to the Thessalonians: “We would not have you to be ignorant concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive (and) remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice and trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive (and) remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” – Hippolytus of Rome (c. 170 AD – 235 AD, TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, Point 66)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/hippolytus-christ.html
Second Resurrection of the Righteous and Wicked Simultaneously (the Righteous by Works Alone, Sheepfold2, non-Christian good saved after their Judgment Time in Hades* first – please see St. Clement of Alexandria’s quote & Book above in link above full) by both St. Irenaeous of Lyons and Hippolytus of Rome
To Quote:
The Popular Traditional View CANNOT accept this because they do NOT have a concept of God Saving in the afterlife or even the Gospel being Preached there even. However, we have demonstrated with Verses & early church writings in links prior pointing to this interpretation of Scripture using 1 Peter 3:18 – 20, 1 Peter 4:6 and even Prophetic in Psalm 107:10 – 15 as Irenaeous clearly calls the ‘shadow of death’ regions to refer to where the ‘souls of the dead are’.
So, is there an authoritative writing describing the GENERAL RESURRECTION pointing to BOTH a group of RIGHTEOUS vs WICKED being raised LITERALLY which would put to silence the ‘popular symbolic’ interpretation and hence strengthening the ‘Sheepfold2’ Claim? Yes, to quote:
“… Again, He called Lazarus “with a loud voice, saying, Lazarus, come forth; and HE that WAS DEAD came forth bound with bandages, feet and hands.” This was SYMBOLICAL of that MAN who had been BOUND in SINS. And therefore the Lord said, “Loose him, and let him depart.” As, therefore, THOSE who were HEALED were MADE WHOLE in THOSE MEMBERS which had in TIMES PAST been AFFLICTED; and the DEAD ROSE in the IDENTICAL BODIES, their limbs and bodies receiving health, and that life which was granted by the Lord, who prefigures eternal [age-during] things by temporal, and shows that it is He who is Himself able to extend BOTH HEALING and LIFE to HIS HANDIWORK, that His words concerning its [future] RESURRECTION may also be believed; so also at the END, when the Lord utters His voice “by the LAST TRUMPET,” the dead shall be raised, as He Himself declares: “The HOUR SHALL COME, in which ALL THE DEAD which are in the TOMBS shall hear the voice of the Son of man, and shall come forth; those that have DONE GOOD to the RESURRECTION of LIFE, and those that have DONE EVIL to the RESURRECTION of JUDGMENT.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (c.130 AD – c. 202 AD, ‘Against Heresies’, Book 5, Chapter XIII, Point 1)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
Do carefully note these phrases:
‘LAST TRUMPET’
‘that His words concerning its [future] RESURRECTION may also be believed; so also at the END,’
‘The HOUR SHALL COME’
Implication —> So, a badge of righteous John 5:25, John 5:28 – 29 is distinguished during this ending hour of this Last Day (called the ‘hour is coming’ or in the ‘hour shall come’) which does NOT refer to the ‘First Resurrection Context’ but ‘a thousand years after that’ (Revelation 20:5) in the ‘future General Resurrection Context’ during the ‘last trumpet’ containing a ‘second badge of righteous, hence Sheepfold2 as claimed’ as this is intrinsically implied in St. Irenaeous’ own words above – Can you see it?.
St. Irenaeous’ own words above which proves our exegesis true concerning a second badge of righteous (Sheepfold2 during the ‘General Resurrection’ which occurs 1000 years after the First Resurrection, Revelation 20:5) and is affirmed by Hippolytus’ own words as translated in source below too:
“For concerning the GENERAL RESURRECTION and the kingdom of the saints, Daniel says: “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting [age-during] life, and some to shame and everlasting [age-during] contempt.” And Isaiah says: “The dead shall rise, and those in the tombs shall awake, and those in the earth shall rejoice.” And our Lord says: “Many in that [Last] Day shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live” (Hippolytus. On the End of the World, Chapter XXXVI. Excerpted from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 5. Edited by Alexander Roberts & James Donaldson. American Edition, 1886. Online Edition Copyright © 2005 by K. Knight).
I repeat, please note the Phrase ‘last trumpet’ itself proves that there must be an ‘early trumpet’ as shown in the first point and also that St. Irenaeous points to this ‘last trumpet’ to refer to the ‘General Resurrection’ and NOT the ‘First Resurrection’ as popularly erred in modern exegesis making no distinction between these ‘accurate details’.
*Is there a Biblical Basis for this Claim regarding Sheepfold2 given a Chance to believe after seeing Him or His Apostles in the afterlife too?
Yes, as explained in post below:
https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158170190367784
Or more detailed in some sub-topics in link below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/repentance-is-afterlife-repentance-possible/
I Repeat that the General Resurrection or ‘resurrection’ Context vs the First Resurrection or ‘resurrection of the just’ Context being Separated by 1000 years (Revelation 20:5) is clear within Hippolytus of Rome’s writing in his own words, to quote in full:
“65. Moreover, concerning the resurrection and the kingdom of the saints, Daniel says, “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall arise, some to everlasting life, (and some to shame and everlasting contempt).” Esaias says, “The dead men shall arise, and they that are in their tombs shall awake; for the dew from thee is healing to them.” The Lord says, “Many in that day shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live.” And the prophet says, “Awake, thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.” And John says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.” For the second death is the lake of fire that burneth. And again the Lord says, “Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun shineth in his glory.” And to the saints He will say, “Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” But what saith He to the wicked? “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels, which my Father hath prepared.” And John says, “Without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever maketh and loveth a lie; for your part is in the hell of fire.” And in like manner also Esaias: “And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me. And their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be for a spectacle to all flesh.”
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/hippolytus-christ.html
Note:
*For ever, Eternal, Everlasting = In Koine Greek is more accurately, [age-during] in the above
iii. There is NO Rapture as in a ‘Secret Coming’
“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. “For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. “Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. “Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. “Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:37 – 42, NASB)
Example: These Verses (above) are often used to claim a secret coming of the Lord.
However in quote below, St. Irenaeous clearly references that these same Verses refer to the Coming of Christ and the entrance to His thousand years Millennial Reign Context as Claimed, to quote:
“… and if He does not judge, all persons will be equal, and accounted in the same condition. The advent of Christ will therefore be without an object, yea, absurd, inasmuch as [in that case] He exercises no judicial power…. and when two are in one bed, to take the one, and to leave the other; and of two women grinding at the mill, to take one and leave the other: [also] at the time of the end, to order the reapers to collect first the tares together, and bind them in bundles, and burn them with unquenchable fire, but to gather up the wheat into the barn; and to call the lambs into the kingdom prepared for them,…” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XXVII, Book V)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
The Rapture is when Christ sends His Angels on the Day of His Return ‘after the last Tribulation’ (Matthew 24:29) to gather all His Elect as One as His Bride, followed by His Millennial Reign (Revelation 19:7 – 10, Revelation 20:4 – 6, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18, Matthew 24:29 – 31, Mark 13:26 – 27, during the First Resurrection’s GREAT early TRUMPET, Matthew 24:30 – 31, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 – 17).
“Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory. “And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 13:26 – 27, NASB)
“… and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. “And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:30 – 31, NASB)
“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the TRUMPET of God, and the dead in Christ will RISE FIRST. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.” – apostle Paul (1 Thessalonians 4:16 – 17, NASB)
“Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.” – apostle John (Revelation 20:4 – 6, NASB)
Yes, please note that the last word translated as “for ever” is more accurately “age-during or to the age”. However, even if (for arguments’ sake) this means forever, we know that God can ‘Cancel’ this ‘forever sentence’ by His Mercy which Triumphs over and Ends any afterlife Judgment Sentence as James 2:13-NASB Reveals Majestically.
To Quote (a Different topic but may be found in detail as discussed regarding this Prophecy from some Subtopics in link below – please do a “Control F” or “Search Function” to find it easily in links below):
Subtopic:
Lake of Fire – Universal Restoration in the Book of Enoch – Wicked Finally Saved
as Discussed in Link below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/forever-in-the-bible/
To Quote from link above:
Scripture does not discuss the last part (point 5) in detail (which is Hidden) but it can be inferred from Universal Salvation Biblical Passages (e.g. the Conclusion in 1 Timothy 4:10 or 1 Timothy 2:1,4, 6, or 1 Corinthians 15:20 – 23 or Romans 5:18 – 19, Titus 2:11) that the wicked must eventually be given the ‘age-during life or eternal life too’ as Lord Jesus Christ Himself Promised Literally in the Context of All Men or All Flesh or All Humanity in John 17:2 whilst Prophetically Speaking in the Context of the Completion of the Work to mean this (John 17:4).
Lord Jesus Christ implies Universal Salvation toward all men in His Own Blessed Words say in John 12:32 and Matthew 5:19 too where the wicked (or those who ‘break His Commands’ become least).
The Sibyline Oracles, a fuller version of the Apocalypse of Peter, Apocalypse of Elijah all have a Section Describing God Saving the Wicked from the Lake of Fire to be placed in lower regions of the Kingdom of the Heavens, links below:
Sibyline Oracles
Apocalypse of Peter
Apocalypse of Elijah
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/antichrist-universalist-hope-apocalypse-of-elijah-explains/
The Context of Fulfilling the Law and ‘entering His Kingdom first’ (Matthew 5:20) or that ‘these may not enter His Rest’ (Hebrews 3:11) are all referring to Missing Out on the Greatest Hope of the First Resurrection Pertaining to Partaking of His Millennial Reign on Earth for a thousand years too (Revelation 20:4 – 6) as discussed in Posts Below:
1) First Christianity – Speak the Same Thing – Not Enter My Rest Meaning
2) Entering Heaven – First Christianity – Exceed the Righteousness of the Pharisees?
3) First Christianity – Worm that does not Die & the Fire that is not quenched
Last but not least I rather stick with St. Irenaeous of Lyons’, St. Justin Martyr’s and Hippolytus of Rome’s Exegesis regarding the Prophecies Concerning the Book of Revelation (whilst in Obedience to 2 Peter 1:20) because:
“And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book” – apostle John (Revelation 22:19, KJV)
Peace to you
Firstly, all quotes below are from the ‘Shepherd of Hermas’ Translation below unless otherwise stated:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd-lightfoot.html
3[11]:3 The tower, which thou seest building, is myself, the Church, which was seen of thee both now and aforetime. Ask, therefore, what thou willest concerning the tower, and I will reveal it unto thee, that thou mayest rejoice with the saints.”
5[13]:1 “Hear now concerning the stones that go to the building The stones that are squared and white, and that fit together in their joints, these are the apostles and bishops and teachers and deacons, who walked after the holiness of God, and exercised their office of bishop and teacher and deacon in purity and sanctity for the elect of God, some of them already fallen on sleep, and others still living. And because they always agreed with one another, they both had peace among themselves and listened one to another. Therefore their joinings fit together in the building of the tower.”
5[13]:2 “But they that are dragged from the deep, and placed in the building, and that fit together in their joinings with the other stones that are already builded in, who are they?” “These are they that suffered for the name of the Lord.”
5[13]:3 “But the other stones that are brought from the dry land, I would fain know who these are, lady.” She said, “Those that go to the building, and yet are not hewn, these the Lord hath approved because they walked in the uprightness of the Lord, and rightly performed His commandments.”
5[13]:4 “But they that are brought and placed in the building, who are they?” “They are young in the faith, and faithful; but they are warned by the angels to do good, because wickedness was found in them.”
Context: Those who become part of the “Tower of Repentance” are thus Christians or Sheepfold1 only by the Definition above.
Timeline for Repentance for the Gentiles is till the “Last Day” referring to the ‘Resurrection Day’ as Described in earlier Posts:
2[6]:5 For the Master sware by His own glory, as concerning His elect; that if, now that this day has been set as a limit, sin shall hereafter be committed, they shall not find salvation; for repentance for the righteous hath an end; the days of repentance are accomplished for all the saints; whereas for the Gentiles there is repentance until the last day.
3:2 But the great mercy of the Lord had pity on thee and thy family, and will strengthen thee, and establish thee in His glory. Only be not thou careless, but take courage, and strengthen thy family. For as the smith hammering his work conquers the task which he wills, so also doth righteous discourse repeated daily conquer all evil. Cease not therefore to reprove thy children; for I know that if they shall repent with all their heart, they shall be written in the books of life with the saints.
Repentance is NOT possible in the afterlife to become part of the “Tower of Repentance” or “His Church” or “His Bride” whom I call as “Sheepfold1” (John 10:14).
First Christianity Quotes (Example):
“3:2 For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ,
they are with the bishop; and as many as shall repent
and enter into the unity of the Church, these also
shall be of God, that they may be living after Jesus
Christ. 3:3 Be not deceived, my brethren. If any man
followeth one that maketh a schism, _he doth not
inherit the kingdom of God._ If any man walketh in
strange doctrine, he hath no fellowship with the
passion.” – St. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 50 AD – c. 140 AD, Ignatius to the Philadelphians)
“8:1 I therefore did my own part, as a man composed
unto union. But where there is division and anger,
there God abideth not. Now the Lord forgiveth all men
when they repent, if repenting they return to the
unity of God and to the council of the bishop. I have
faith in the grace of Jesus Christ, who shall strike
off every fetter from you;” – St. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 50 AD – c. 140 AD, Ignatius to the Philadelphians)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-philadelphians-lightfoot.html
“5:3 But their names, being unbelievers, I have not thought fit to record in writing; nay, far be it from me even to remember them, until they repent and return to the passion, which is our resurrection.” – St. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 50 AD – c. 140 AD, Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans)
“9:1 It is reasonable henceforth that we wake to
soberness, while we have [still] time to repent and
turn to God. It is good to recognise God and the
bishop. He that honoureth the bishop is houroured of
God; he that doeth aught without the knowledge of the
bishop rendereth service to the devil.” – St. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 50 AD – c. 140 AD, Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-smyrnaeans-lightfoot.html
iii. Continue to Pray for the HOPE of REPENTANCE toward the Rest of Mankind who are not now part of the Church
“10:1 And pray ye also without ceasing for the rest of mankind (for there is in them a hope of repentance), that they may find God. Therefore permit them to take lessons at least from your works.” – St. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 50 AD – c. 140 AD, Ignatius to the Ephesians)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-ephesians-lightfoot.html
The quote above may be argued that it refers to the chance to repent now on earth. I think it includes that but more so toward a Hope in the Afterlife too.
Why?
Simply because, St. Ignatius obviously knows that the number of Elect or His Church is Predestined by Christ. He also knows that the ‘rest of mankind’ (context: NOT part of His Elect, i.e. NOT His Predestined Church) can never ‘choose Christ’ or ‘be the elect’. Hence, this ‘chance of being an elect’ cannot be the Hope of Repentance on earth which St. Ignatius points too as it contradicts many verses in Principle.
So, which Hope of Repentance is it then?
Hence, when he mentions this “Hope of Repentance” toward the “Rest of Mankind” (which are NOT part of His Church, Context), it is a stronger suggestion that this HOPE refers to AFTERLIFE REPENTANCE in some way for which the ELECT (His CHURCH) ought to PRAY (1 Timothy 2:1) so that ALL MEN prayed for (1 Timothy 2:1) may REPENT (1 Timothy 2:4) and be SAVED eventually(1 Timothy 4:10) in his own order (1 Corinthians 15:23) of TIMES (1 Timothy 2:6).
5[13]:5 “But those whom they rejected and threw away, who are they?” “These have sinned, and desire to repent, therefore they were not cast to a great distance from the tower, because they will be useful for the building, if they repent. They then that shall repent, if they repent, will be strong in the faith, if they repent now while the tower is building. But if the building shall be finished, they have no more any place, but shall be castaways. This privilege only they have, that they lie near the tower.
5[13]:1 But wouldst thou know about them that are broken in pieces, and cast away far from the tower? These are the sons of lawlessness. They received the faith in hypocrisy, and no wickedness was absent from them. Therefore they have not salvation, for they are not useful for building by reason of their wickednesses. Therefore they were broken up and thrown far away by reason of the wrath of the Lord, for they excited Him to wrath.
5[13]:2 But the rest whom thou hast seen lying in great numbers, not going to the building, of these they that are mildewed are they that knew the truth, but did not abide in it, nor cleave to the saints. Therefore they are useless.”
5[13]:3 “But they that have the cracks, who are they?” “These are they that have discord in their hearts against one another, and are not at peace among themselves; who have an appearance of peace, but when they depart from one another, their wickednesses abide in their hearts. These are the cracks which the stones have.
5[13]:4 But they that are broken off short, these have believed, and have their greater part in righteousness, but have some parts of lawlessness; therefore they are too short, and are not perfect.”
5[13]:5 “But the white and round stones, which did not fit into the building, who are they, lady?” She answered and said to me, “How long art thou foolish and stupid, and enquirest everything, and understandest nothing? These are they that have faith, but have also riches of this world. When tribulation cometh, they deny their Lord by reason of their riches and their business affairs.”
5[13]:6 And I answered and said unto her, “When then, lady, will they be useful for the building?” “When,” she replied, “their wealth, which leadeth their souls astray, shall be cut away, then will they be useful for God. For just as the round stone, unless it be cut away, and lose some portion of itself, cannot become square, so also they that are rich in this world, unless their riches be cut away, cannot become useful to the Lord.
5[13]:7 Learn first from thyself When thou hadst riches, thou wast useless; but now thou art useful and profitable unto life. Be ye useful unto God, for thou thyself also art taken from the same stones.
7[15]:1 “But the other stones which thou sawest cast far away from the tower and falling into the way and rolling out of the way into the regions where there is no way, these are they that have believed, but by reason of their double heart they abandon their true way. Thus thinking that they can find a better way, they go astray and are sore distressed, as they walk about in the regions where there is no way.
7[15]:2 But they that fall into the fire and are burned, these are they that finally rebelled from the living God, and it no more entered into their hearts to repent by reason of the lusts of their wantonness and of the wickednesses which they wrought.
7[15]:3 But the others, which are near the waters and yet cannot roll into the water, wouldest thou know who are they? These are they that heard the word, and would be baptized unto the name of the Lord. Then, when they call to their remembrance the purity of the truth, they change their minds, and go back again after their evil desires.”
7[15]:4 So she finished the explanation of the tower.
Is Afterlife Repentance possible for ALL THESE REJECTED STONES post afterlife Judgment?
Yes. To quote:
7[15]:5 Still importunate, I asked her further, whether for ALL THESE STONES that were REJECTED and would not fit into the building of the TOWER that was REPENTANCE, and they had a place in this tower. “THEY CAN REPENT” she said, “but they CANNOT be fitted into THIS TOWER.
7[15]:6 Yet THEY shall be fitted into ANOTHER PLACE much more humble, but not until they have UNDERGONE TORMENTS and have FULFILLED THE DAYS OF THEIR SINS. And they shall be changed for this reason, because they participated in the Righteous Word; and then shall it befall them to be relieved from their torments, if the evil deeds, that they have done, come into their heart; but if these come not into their heart, they are not saved by reason of the hardness of their hearts.”
*Please note that I have quoted these Shepherd of Hermas Verses in ‘Consecutive Order’ (Context) regarding the ‘Rejected Stones’ being offered ‘Afterlife Repentance’ thereafter but only after they ‘endure the torment of their Judgment first accordingly’ as you may read for yourself in the translation source quoted.
We know from Scripture (below) that these ‘rejected stones’ must refer to the ‘fallen believers and/or wicked’ as their ‘punishment sentences are the same during the Final Judgment’ (Verses below) implying that the Hope of Repentance above applies to them (Context – Matthew 5:23 – 26, Luke 12:57 – 59 too):
“the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. ” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 12:46 – 48, NASB)
Focus Phrase: “… but not until they have UNDERGONE TORMENTS and have FULFILLED THE DAYS OF THEIR SINS…”
Focus Phrase: “… “THEY CAN REPENT” she said, “but they CANNOT be fitted into THIS TOWER. Yet THEY shall be fitted into ANOTHER PLACE much more humble …”
The Context of the Above is Afterlife Repentance simply because if it refers to ‘earthly repentance’, then they would be part of the Church (Sheepfold1) too meaning that they are part of this ‘Tower of Repentance’ which CONTRADICTS the phrases: “… ALL THESE STONES that were REJECTED and would not fit into the building of the TOWER that was REPENTANCE …” and “… but they CANNOT be fitted into THIS TOWER. Yet THEY shall be fitted into ANOTHER PLACE much more humble…”.
Can you see it?
It’s not just Purgatory per say because these REJECTED stones Includes those who were unrepentant Lawless ones (Remember Matthew 7:20 – 23)?
Really?
Yes, the Context of Afterlife Repentance above is Described toward ALL THESE STONES that WERE REJECTED as described first (in Context of the Consecutive Verses in the Shepherd of Hermas) as Listed out in Point 6 first, for example including these ones too, (to quote from Point 6 again for emphasis):
These are some of the REJECTED STONES “Context” which are said to REPENT LATER (in the afterlife, after Judgment as explained at the start of Point 7):
“5[13]:3 “But they that have the cracks, who are they?” “These are they that have discord in their hearts against one another, and are not at peace among themselves; who have an appearance of peace, but when they depart from one another, their wickednesses abide in their hearts. These are the cracks which the stones have.
5[13]:4 But they that are broken off short, these have believed, and have their greater part in righteousness, but have some parts of lawlessness; therefore they are too short, and are not perfect.”
7[15]:1 “But the other stones which thou sawest cast far away from the tower and falling into the way and rolling out of the way into the regions where there is no way, these are they that have believed, but by reason of their double heart they abandon their true way. Thus thinking that they can find a better way, they go astray and are sore distressed, as they walk about in the regions where there is no way.
7[15]:2 But they that fall into the fire and are burned, these are they that finally rebelled from the living God, and it no more entered into their hearts to repent by reason of the lusts of their wantonness and of the wickednesses which they wrought.
7[15]:3 But the others, which are near the waters and yet cannot roll into the water, wouldest thou know who are they? These are they that heard the word, and would be baptized unto the name of the Lord. Then, when they call to their remembrance the purity of the truth, they change their minds, and go back again after their evil desires.”
Please don’t believe the Roman Catholic Church’s claims of Purgatory ‘only’ or my claim that it includes all the wicked on account of the ‘same Judgment Sentence’ implied toward the ‘fallen believer & Wicked’ (Luke 12:46 – 48) but ‘read the translation in quoted source’ by yourself and decide for yourselves which is right (Luke 12:57) as the Bereans did who even scrutinized apostle Paul’s sermons & were praised for it (Acts 17:11).
15[92]:4 “But the stones, Sir,” say I, “that came from the deep, and were fitted into the building, who are they?” “The first,” saith he, “even the ten, that were placed in the foundations, are the first generation; the twenty-five are the second generation of righteous men; the thirty-five are God’s prophets and His ministers; the forty are apostles and teachers of the preaching of the Son of God.”
15[92]:5 “Wherefore then, Sir,” say I, “did the virgins give in these stones also for the building of the tower and carry them through the gate?”
15[92]:6 “Because these first,” saith he, “bore these spirits, and they never separated the one from the other, neither the spirits from the men nor the men from the spirits, but the spirits abode with them till they fell asleep; and if they had not had these spirits with them, they would not have been found useful for the building of this tower.”
15[92]:1 “Show me still further, Sir,” say I. “What desirest thou to know besides?” saith he. “Wherefore, Sir,” say I, “did the stones come up from the deep, and wherefore were they placed into the building, though they bore these spirits?”
15[92]:2 “It was necessary for them,” saith he, “to rise up through water, that they might be made alive; for otherwise they could not enter into the kingdom of God, except they had put aside the deadness of their [former] life.
15[92]:3 So these likewise that had fallen asleep received the seal of the Son of God and entered into the kingdom of God. For before a man,” saith he, “has borne the name of [the Son of] God, he is dead; but when he has received the seal, he layeth aside his deadness, and resumeth life.
15[92]:4 The seal then is the water: so they go down into the water dead, and they come up alive. “thus to them also this seal was preached, and they availed themselves of it that they might enter into the kingdom of God.”
15[92]:5 “Wherefore, Sir,” say I, “did the forty stones also come up with them from the deep, though they had already received the seal?” “Because,” saith he, “these, the apostles and the teachers who preached the name of the Son of God, after they had fallen asleep in the power and faith of the Son of God, preached also to them that had fallen asleep before them, and themselves gave unto them the seal of the preaching.
15[92]:6 Therefore they went down with them into the water, and came up again. But these went down alive [and again came up alive]; whereas the others that had fallen asleep before them went down dead and came up alive.
15[92]:7 So by their means they were quickened into life, and came to the full knowledge of the name of the Son of God. For this cause also they came up with them, and were fitted with them into the building of the tower and were builded with them, without being shaped; for they fell asleep in righteousness and in great purity. Only they had not this seal. Thou hast then the interpretation of these things also.” “I have, Sir,” say I.
17[94]:1 “Now then, Sir, explain to me concerning the mountains. Wherefore are their forms diverse the one from the other, and various?” “Listen,” saith he. “These twelve mountains are [twelve] tribes that inhabit the whole world. To these (tribes) then the Son of God was preached by the Apostles.”
Conclusion
Yes, the ‘Kingdom of the Heavens’ includes the ‘Heavens + other regions outside of the heavens, hence it is called kingdom’ (where even the ‘command breakers will eventually enter by His Mercy’, Matthew 5:19, 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28).
‘Kingdom of the Heavens’ = the ‘Heavens + other regions outside of the heavens
Did First Christianity Understand these Verses as it s Written as per the Explanation above?
Yes, for Example:
a.i. Earthly Repentance Context – St. Clement of Rome
St. Clement of Rome says the those who die unrepentant on earth cannot be molded as per soft clay being reshaped
“While we are on earth then, let us repent: for we are clay under the craftsman’s hand.For in like manner as the potter, if he be making a vessel, and it get twisted or crushed in his hands, reshapeth it again; but if he have once put it into the fiery oven, he shall no longer mend it: so also let us, while we are in this world, repent with our whole heart of the evil things which we have done in the flesh, that we may be saved by the Lord, while we have yet time for repentance. For after that we have departed out of the world, we can no more make confession there, or repent any more.” – St. Clement of Rome (c. 35 AD – c. 99 AD, 2 Clement 8:1 – 3)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/2clement-lightfoot.html
a.ii. Afterlife Repentance Context – St. Theophilus of Antioch
St. Theophilus of Antioch says that Men who do NOT repent on earth, the hardened clay as St. Clement of Rome calls it above are ‘Remoulded by Force’ after breaking it up’ (during afterlife Judgments in Hades or in the Lake of Fire or both)
To Quote:
“And God showed great kindness to man in this, that He did not suffer him to remain in sin for ever; but, as it were, by a kind of banishment, cast him out of Paradise, in order that, having by punishment expiated, within an appointed time, the sin, and having been disciplined, he should afterwards be restored. Wherefore also, when man had been formed in this world, it is mystically written in Genesis, as if he had been twice placed in Paradise; so that the one was fulfilled when he was placed there, and the second will be fulfilled after the resurrection and judgment. For just as a vessel, when on being fashioned it has some flaw, is remoulded or remade, that it may become new and entire; so also it happens to man by death. For somehow or other he is broken up, that he may rise in the resurrection whole; I mean spotless, and righteous, and immortal. And as to God’s calling, and saying, Where art thou, Adam? God did this, not as if ignorant of this; but, being long-suffering, He gave him an opportunity of repentance and confession.” – St. Theophilus of Antioch (Died c. 183 AD, Chapter XXVI, Book II, THEOPHILUS TO AUTOLYCUS)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/theophilus-book2.html
This is PROPHETICALLY implied in Revelation 21:5 as God makes ‘All things New’ through the Lake of Fire too (Consecutive Verse Context, Revelation 21:8) where in the End, these “thirsty” ones from the Lake of Fire are Reconciled to Christ (Colossians 1:16, 20) as Prophetically mentioned by the “Spirit” (God) and His “Bride” (Church, Sheepfold1) too in Revelation 22:17 ‘freely’.
“The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.” (Revelation 22:17, NASB)
P/S: Is the Shepherd of Hermas Writing Authoritative as Scripture?
St. Irenaeous of Lyons, Pope Callixtus, St. Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian (during his Catholic days) and the Muratorian Fragment (First/Earliest known Christian Cannon to date) all cite it as Scripture.
Really?
Quotes:
“But Hermas wrote The Shepherd very recently, in our times, in the city of Rome, while bishop Pius, his brother, was occupying the chair of the church of the city of Rome. And therefore it ought indeed to be read; but it cannot be read publicly to the people in church either among the Prophets, whose number is complete, or among the Apostles, for it is after their time.”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shepherd_of_Hermas
iii) The Description in link below Regarding the Shepherd of Hermas is not so accurate (biased)
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/info/hermas-cathen.html
Here’s why (please read both sides & decide for yourself which is true) as both are based on the quote below:
“I would admit your argument, if the writing of the Shepherd had deserved to be included in the Divine Instrument, and if it were not judged by every council of the Churches, even of your own Churches, among the apocryphal and false… [the Epistle of Barnabas] is more received among the Churches than that apocryphal Shepherd” – Pope Callixtus to Tertullian
What happened was that Pope Callixtus was hesitant to include the Shepherd as Scripture only for the reason that it was rejected by “the majority” as he says “that the Epistle of Barnabas is “more received among the Churches than that apocryphal Shepherd” and that “if it [the Shepherd of Hermas Writing] were not judged by every council of the Churches, even of your own Churches, among the apocryphal and false.”.
Yes Pope Callixtus mentions that “[the Epistle of Barnabas] is more received among the Churches than that apocryphal Shepherd” —> pointing that the churches were more ready to accept a ‘less authoritative Book’ (i.e. the Epistle of Barnabas) than the ‘Shepherd of Hermas’ which he considers [the latter] to be part of the ‘Divine Instrument’ (Inspired Scripture) —-> Just as St. Irenaeus of Lyons & others —> if not for the ‘majority’ (including the ‘false’ churches) too being uncomfortable with it.
Herein the Mistake by Pope Callixtus as he considered ‘majority opinion’ which included even the “false” churches as his own words above reveal him citing this reason for keeping the Shepherd not as Scripture though he himself ‘knew that it is Scripture’ as he says in his own words during the reply to Tertullian in the phrase “I would admit your argument, if the writing of the Shepherd had deserved to be included in the Divine Instrument”.
The other mistake during that later time is that the Latin fathers (e.g. Augustine) missed the Shepherd of Hermas Book and hence did not understand accurately regarding the ‘repentance in this life’ (pertaining to becoming His Church, Sheepfold1) vs ‘repenting in the afterlife but only after Judgment’ (Sheepfold2 or wicked) as implied in the Shepherd of Hermas writing explicitly in Points 5,6 and 7 above.
More Reading regarding the Shepherd of Hermas Mystery, please consider the links below:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/shepherd-of-hermas-afterlife-judgment-and-repentance-faq/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/shepherd-of-hermas-afterlife-judgment-visions/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/shepherd-of-hermas-free-translation-secrets/
Why is considering the ‘Shepherd of Hermas’ Writing regarding afterlife Visions of Judgment Prophecy important?
“But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,” – apostle Peter (2 Peter 1:20, NASB)
More Details in Posts below:
1) Forever in the Bible
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/forever-in-the-bible/
2) Hell Gehenna – Body and Soul Destroyed – Recapitulation Doctrine in First Christianity?
3) Hell Forever? – Salvation of spirit from Hell too – Facts from First Christianity
4) Hell – If God’s Love is Unconditional, why does Hell Exist?
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/hell-if-gods-love-is-unconditional-why-does-hell-exist/
5) Rapture Theory – Deceiving the Elect of God
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/rapture-theory-deceiving-the-elect-of-god/
Peace to you
Sheepfold2 – First Christianity
To quote:
“Subsequent to the Apostolic age St. Justin Martyr, a second century apologist, makes the claim for Christianity that “Whatever things were rightly said among all men are the property of us Christians.”[13] Justin espouses the belief that both Gentiles and Jews will be saved on the basis of their piety and holiness. He states that “Christ is the first-born of God, and we have declared above all that He is the Word (Logos) of whom every race of men were partakers; and those who lived according to reason are Christian.”[14] All peoples are able to participate in the “spermatikos logos” or seed of reason: “For each man spoke well in proportion to the share he had of the spermatic word (reason disseminated among men), seeing what was related to it,” because “the seed of reason (the Logos) implanted in every race of men” makes God’s revelation accessible to all [15] The pre-existence of the eternal Logos of God enables “all the races of men to participate” in God’s revelation. The “seed of the Logos is innate in all the races of men and resides in all people.” uniting humanity and making all “part of the Logos.”
Source:
https://www.goarch.org/-/an-orthodox-christian-view-of-non-christian-religions
“But how? Do not [the Scriptures] show that. the Lord preached the Gospel to those that perished in the flood, or rather had been chained, and to those kept “in ward and guard”? And it has been shown also, in the second book of the Stromata, that the apostles, following the Lord, preached the Gospel to those in Hades. For it was requisite, in my opinion, that as here, so also there, the best of the disciples should be imitators of the Master; so that He should bring to repentance those belonging to the Hebrews, and they the Gentiles; that is, those who had lived in righteousness according to the Law and Philosophy, who had ended life not perfectly, but sinfully. ” – St. Clement of Alexandria (Stromata, Book 6, Chapter VI)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
More quotes of St. Clement of Alexandria in this context is in recent posts too.
In the above, Sheepfold2 (non – Christian good are defined as):
“those belonging to the Hebrews, and they the Gentiles; that is, those who had lived in righteousness according to the Law and Philosophy, who had ended life not perfectly, but sinfully” – St. Clement of Alexandria
Christ Saves Sheepfold2 from “Hades” even ‘now’ (please note this word “Hades” carefully in the quote below):
“And if a man has gone down even to HADES, and stands awestruck before the heroes who have descended thither, regarding them as gods, still he may see the fact of Christ’s resurrection and His victory over death, and reason from it that, of all these, He alone is very Lord and God. For the Lord touched all parts of creation, and freed and undeceived them all from every deceit. As St. Paul says, “Having put off from Himself the principalities and the powers, He triumphed on the cross,”(Col. 2. 15) so that no one could possibly be any longer deceived, but everywhere might find the very Word of God. For thus man, enclosed on every side by the works of creation and everywhere-in heaven, in HADES, in men and on the earth, beholding the unfolded Godhead of the Word, is no longer deceived concerning God, but worships Christ alone, and through Him rightly knows the Father. On these grounds, then, of reason and of principle, we will fairly silence the Gentiles in their turn. But if they think these arguments insufficient to confute them, we will go on in the next chapter to prove our point from facts.” – St. Athanasius the Great, ‘father of orthodoxy’ (‘On the Incarnation’)
Translation Source:
https://www.worldinvisible.com/library/athanasius/incarnation/incarnation.7.htm
Please take note that St. Athanasius considered the “Shepherd of Hermas” as “Truth” even in his time, to quote:
“Athanasius includes the Book of Baruch and the Letter of Jeremiah and places the Book of Esther among the “7 books not in the canon but to be read” along with the Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), Judith, Tobit, the Didache, and the Shepherd of Hermas.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasius_of_Alexandria
The Context of being able to find the Word of God in Hades (Context above) as St. Athanasius points out in the above applies even “if a man has gone down even to HADES”. Can you see it?
Is St. Athanasius reliable or a heretic?
To quote (from the same Wikipedia source above):
“Gregory of Nazianzus (330–390) begins Or. 21 with: “When I praise Athanasius, virtue itself is my theme: for I name every virtue as often as I mention him who was possessed of all virtues. He was the true pillar of the church. His life and conduct were the rule of bishops, and his doctrine the rule of the orthodox faith.”[9]
Cyril of Alexandria (370–444) in the first letter says: “Athanasius is one who can be trusted: he would not say anything that is not in accord with sacred scripture.” (Ep 1).”
Conclusion
Sheepfold2 is Real. The Best of First Christianity Preached it and please notice that only Augustine of Hippo & Thomas Aquinas opposed this truth (please see image) which comes at a ‘later date’.
Source for Image:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate_of_the_unlearned
Please note that the post mortem evangelism in Hades may not be limited to ‘those who never heard the Gospel only’ as the original quotes by each of St. Justin Martyr, St. Clement of Alexandria and St. Athanasius shown here do NOT limit it to them only but toward anyone who has lived a relatively moral life by Christian Values though died unbelieving or sinfully.
Example:
“… so that no one could possibly be any longer deceived, but everywhere might find the very Word of God. For thus man, enclosed on every side by the works of creation and everywhere-in heaven, in HADES … ” – St. Athanasius the Great (from the quote prior)
Yes, such Gentiles who has encountered the Word of God in HADES end up believing in Him, and worships Christ (‘repentance in the afterlife context’).
Really?
Please read carefully from quote above again:
“… so that no one could possibly be any longer deceived, but everywhere might find the very Word of God. For thus man, enclosed on every side by the works of creation and everywhere-in heaven, in HADES, in men and on the earth, beholding the unfolded Godhead of the Word, is no longer deceived concerning God, but worships Christ alone, and through Him rightly knows the Father…” – St. Athanasius the Great
Focus on “Hades”, the quote above condensed:
“… For thus man, … in HADES, …, beholding the unfolded Godhead of the Word (John 6:40), is no longer deceived concerning God, but worships Christ alone, and through Him rightly knows the Father…” – St. Athanasius the Great
Peace to you
Lord Jesus Christ – Lord of All because He Will Save All
“… . Or He does care for all, which is befitting for Him who has become Lord of all. For He is Saviour; not [the Saviour] of some, and of others not. But in proportion to the adaptation possessed by each, He has dispensed His beneficence both to Greeks and Barbarians, even to those of them that were predestinated, and in due time called, the faithful and elect… And how is He Saviour and Lord, if not the Saviour and Lord of all? But He is the Saviour of those who have believed, because of their l wishing to know; and the Lord of those who have not believed, till, being enabled to confess him, they obtain the peculiar and appropriate boon which comes by Him…” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c.150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 7)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book7.html
“… There is an eye of justice, which sees all. For two ways, as we deem, to Hades lead- One for the good, the other for the bad. But if the earth hides both for ever, then Go plunder, steal, rob, and be turbulent. But err not. For in Hades judgment is, Which God the Lord of all will execute, Whose name too dreadful is for me to name, Who gives to sinners length of earthly life. If any mortal thinks, that day by day, While doing ill, he eludes the gods keen sight, His thoughts are evil; and when justice has The leisure, he shall then detected be So thinking. Look, whoe’er you be that say That there is not a God. There is, there is. If one, by nature evil, evil does, Let him redeem the time; for such as he Shall by and by due punishment receive.” And with this agrees the tragedy in the following lines: “For there shall come, shall come that point of time, When Ether, golden-eyed, shall ope its store Of treasured fire; and the devouring flame, Raging, shall burn all things on earth below, And all above.” . . .And after a little he adds: “And when the whole world fades, And vanished all the abyss of ocean’s waves, And earth of trees is bare; and wrapt in flames, The air no more begets the winged tribes; Then He who all destroyed, shall all restore.” – – St. Clement of Alexandria (c.150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 5)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book5.html
St. Clement of Alexandria is quoting above the Part which even the Ancient Philosophers got right.
Please notice the ‘Salvation from the Lake of Fire Part’:
Focus Phrases: “… the devouring flame, Raging, shall burn all things on earth below, And all above… He who all destroyed, shall all restore” (agreeing to Revelation 21:5 where God Makes All things New including those Burnt in this Lake of Fire/Gehenna during the Final Judgment).
Peace to you
Preterism 70AD Theory – Not a Doctrine of First Christianity
Here are the facts:
If this assumption is broken, Preterism doesn’t work.
Reply
Predominance of belief can be wrong only if at least one Christian in that timeline who believed otherwise.
There are no preterists writing till 3rd century proving that this idea is not in contest for Truth.
Christ Himself said regarding these times (including Daniel 70 weeks fulfillment of The Messiah etc. Jewish Context) that “no one knows the time yet”.
Verses below:
“So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” (Acts 1:6 – 8, NASB)
If Preterism was True, Lord Jesus Christ’s Reply should be ‘yes, this generation’ which is NOT.
So, Christ’s Reply above post-Resurrection itself answers the “this generation” or the ‘Prophecies He uttered in Matthew 24 – 25’ refers to an ‘unknown future time’ where the only immediate sign to be fulfilled before He Restores Israel etc. (Jewish Prophecies Regarding the Messiah) is that “we will be His Witnesses” till He Returns to do it (Implied).
The time count of 33 – 40 years for the Preterism argument to work is contradicted by Christ Himself since if it’s the Preterists Timelines, ‘no one knows the hour/Day’ would be ridiculous as Preterism counting of the 70 weeks has ‘no gaps’.
Thus this ‘not knowing the time’ sets the disjoint 1 week (from the 70 weeks) as per the True Knowledge regarding this was taught and passed on in First Christianity till 3rd century where everyone taught this.
Augustine and some later theologians from the 4th century onward only started questioning this Millennial Reign Timeline (which anticipates the missing 1 week fulfillment of the Antichrist first before His Return), to quote:
Please note that only the ‘latter’ (NOT earliest authorities of doctrine opposed this Theology – Precedence settles the matter), to quote from the ‘much respected church historian Philip Schaff himself’:
“The most striking point in the eschatology of the ante-Nicene age is the prominent chiliasm, or millenarianism, that is the belief of a visible reign of Christ in glory on earth with the risen saints for a thousand years, before the general resurrection and judgement. It was indeed not the doctrine of the church embodied in any creed or form of devotion, but a widely current opinion of distinguished teachers, such as Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Methodius, and Lactantius, while Caius, Origen, Dionysius the Great, Eusebius (as afterwards Jerome and Augustin) opposed it.” (Schaff, Philip, History of the Christian Church, Volume 2. Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, p. 381)
The Refutation of Preterism is not based on the Verses above only, as discussed in Previous Posts already for example:
But how did they see the Son of Man Coming in His Kingdom?
It’s explained in link below with Bible Verses:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/preterism-i-am-not-a-preterist/
Verses, please consider (‘in full’):
“But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
“Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:29 – 34, NASB)
The ‘this generation’ shall not pass away (Matthew 24:34) —> refers to the ‘summer time is near’ parable of the fig tree —-> talking about the generation which is alive to see Christ’s Glorious Second Coming (Matthew 24:29 – 31) —-> as ‘summer’ refers to His Millennial Reign visibly on earth for a thousand years (Jewish & First Christianity Context, Revelation 20:4 – 6).
Please also note the phrase “after the tribulation of those days” (Matthew 24:29) —> points to the ‘this generation’ (Matthew 24:31) context to refer to
After the Gospel is Preached to all nations during tribulation times first (Matthew 24:9 – 14) and hence certainly not the 70 AD timeline where the Gospel has not been preached to all nations at that time.
Context – How about Preterism and rejecting Hell View?
A common Preterist argument:
‘ Precedence settles the matter? Like Mary worship? Like papal infallibility? Like purgatory?’
None of St. Irenaeous or Justin Martyr did Mary Worship or papacy. These came in later timelines. For example, Veneration of Mary —> earliest fragment is one dated to 250 AD.
Purgatory is a concept found within the Shepherd of Hermas but the later church fathers tried to limit it to ‘believers only’. Purgatorial Hell is True as the Shepherd of Hermas is Scripture as explained in a few posts prior. Luke 16:19 – 31 proves Hades as it is described. Christ’s Descent to Liberate them (1 Peter 3:18 – 19) and the Gospel Preached thereafter (1 Peter 4:6) is evident in Church History writings as demonstrated in recent posts too.
Precedence did settle the matter as No Mary Veneration nor any Christian only Purgatory can be found in the Writings of St. Justin, St. Irenaeous, St, Clement of Alexandria etc. for the 1st to 3rd century timeline.
Here’s a summary of it regarding Preterism or why apostle Paul didn’t describe hell in writing but did so verbally as explained in the posts below:
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/hell-apostle-paul-the-whole-counsel-of-god/
Or
www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/hell-apostle-paul-the-whole-counsel-of-god/amp/
Example: Gnosticism
Gnosticism was never endorsed by any Christian in the mainstream though from opposing schools.
Have you read the Gnostic writings?
It’s completely ridiculous. If you wish to believe that, please go ahead.
Gnosticism heresies are not precedence but the doctrines the church believed as Irenaeous and the rest defended it.
Well, even the Gnostics never believed in Preterism. Preterism did not even exist which gives more credibility to Gnosticism than Preterism if we were to consider ‘existence of doctrine factor in first christianity’.
The 1000 years Millennial Reign (Revelation 20:4 – 6) is visible and it’s “summer” as the Parable of the fig tree reveals in Matthew 24 which refers to a time of good and certainly not the dark ages.
Christ’s Return is Prophesied to be just before that “summer” as the phrase “know that summer is near” in Matthew 24 reveals.
Christ’s Second Coming ‘in the clouds’ will be Visible as Matthew 24:29 – 34 Reveals during “this generation” that sees it as the Verse below mentions (and not symbolic):
“They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:11,.NASB)
How?
Christ divided the 70 weeks to 69 + 1 Week as implied in Acts 1:6 – 8.
Explanation:
Yes the Missing 1 week is exactly present since Christ Spoke the ‘not knowing’ part somewhere around 30 AD in Acts 1:6 – 8.This means that exactly 69 weeks has elapsed from the Daniel’s 70 Weeks Prophecy when Christ Set the ‘Disjoint’ for the Final 1 week when He said, ‘no one knows except the Father’ (Acts 1:6 – 8 for the Fulfillment of Remaining Prophecies, a STOP is implied by Him Post His Resurrection)—> implying that ‘the remaining 1 week (7days = 7 years) time for the Fulfillment of the Remaining Prophecies regarding the Rebuilding of the Temple’ is NOT known from that point onward till the appearance of the ‘Abomination of Desolation’ (antichrist, beast. the Lawless one) is manifested.
Here’s the Math:
This is the last ‘missing’ disjoint period of 1 week from 30 AD (7 days or 7 year reign of the Antichrist – Daniel 9:27) of the Infamous 70 week split to 69 weeks + 1 Week, in the Daniel Prophecy (Daniel 9:24 – 27).
Yes, the 1 week ‘Antichrist Period’ is disjoint and mentioned separately (Daniel 9:27) where the other ’69 weeks as per the calculation illustrated in the earlier post’ refers to the 69 x 7 = 483 years from the command to “restore and rebuild Jerusalem” which was given by King Artaxerxes of Persia c. 445 B.C (Nehemiah 2:1 – 8).
This disjoint 1 week mentioned clearly in Daniel 9:27 clearly disproves the 70AD Theory again in that the Timeline does NOT continue from 30AD to 70AD. Yes, the Timeline is only until 30AD for the 69 weeks (or 483 years) as the Calculation show this.
The reason for this Disjoint 69 weeks + 1 week ending at 30AD because Christ Halted the ‘Rebuilding efforts’ (toward ‘full specifications & function’) by Prophesying (in about 30AD) during His Ministry that ‘the Destruction of the Temple’ (opposite to the ‘Context of Rebuilding the Temple in Daniel’s Prophecy’, Daniel 9:24 – 27) is to be underway as per Matthew 24:2. Can you see it?
Peace to you
Aeons – Ages – Olam – God’s Plan of the Ages
Aeons (Greek) = Olam (Hebrew) = Ages (English)
Please read the Verse in Image. That same word which is translated as “time” is missing the ‘latter part which exists in the Original Koine Greek’ Bible which is not translated in Verse in image (translation bias).
We should not remove from His Holy Word, right? (Please see image in comment)
Source:
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_timothy/1-9.htm
The same ‘missing’ root word here is translated as ‘forever or everlasting’ say in ‘Revelation 20:10 or Matthew 25:46’.
It’s a plural in this Verse while singular-age in Matthew 25:46.
Now, can time have a beginning? The Verse in Image defines it clearly, right?
Truth is, each age gives way to the next as God’s Will Triumphs Despite our sin/fall till Christ Restores all created things back to Himself (Colossians 1:16, 20, Ephesians 1:9 – 11) making All things New (Revelation 21:5) some via the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8) even reconciling them (the punished & purified “thirsty” ones) from the Lake of Fire too afterward as Prophetically echoed (in Revelation 22:17) till at the ends of the Ages (implied), God becomes “All in All” Creation (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28).
HalleluYah Good News (Gospel) Indeed. Amen. Maranatha. Even so, come Lord Jesus Christ, God in Flesh and Most Blessed Savior of the World!
Here’s a more accurate (literal) translation
“Who did save us, and did call with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages [Aionion – Adjective],” (2 Timothy 1:9, YLT)
Focus phrase: “before the times of the ages (Aeons/Olam)”
Aionion = Transliterated Koine Greek, Adjective-Plural.
Peace to you
P/S: Did First Christianity understand the “Aeons” this way?
Yes, even the ‘strongest’ phrase ‘aeons of Aeons’ (e. g. in Revelation 20:10) is not forever but to the “aeons” (subset) out of the total “Aeons” (Bigger set).
An “Aeon” = A long unknown time but limited with both a beginning and an end with God’s Will Triumphing by the End of each Age achieving specific purpose(s).
Says who in First Christianity?
To quote, please consider:
Aeons of the Aeons – Literal or Forever?
The phrase “aeons of the Aeons” occurs say in Revelation 20:10 (Verse in image) and in apostle Paul’s letters such as in Galatians 1:5.
There are two possibilities:
1) St. Augustine (354 AD – 430 AD) – Idiomatic Approach
He argues that such usage is ‘idiomatic’ and thus means ‘forever and ever’. Most churches and Bible translators today follow this.
2) St. Irenaeous of Lyons (130 AD – 202 AD) – Literal Approach
St. Irenaeous’ writings clearly point to the phrase “aeons of Aeons” to mean literally to the “ages of Ages”:
aeons (subset) of the Aeons (larger Set)
Meaning that the reference is to the first set of “aeons” (subset – limited only) out of the Larger Dispensation of God into the “Aeons” (Larger Set).
One of the best quote by St. Irenaeous’ is the following in his own words:
“Paul also, they affirm, very clearly and frequently names these Aeons, and even goes so far as to preserve their order, when he says, “To all the generations of the Aeons of the Aeon.” Nay, we ourselves, when at the giving of thanks we pronounce the words, “To Aeons of Aeons” do set forth these Aeons. And, in fine, wherever the words Aeon or Aeons occur, they at once refer them to these beings.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter III, Book I)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html
In the translation in link above, it’s written exactly the same as above except for one part, quoted below:
‘words, “To Aeons of Aeons” (for ever and ever),’
Please note that I ommited the added phrase “(for ever and ever)” which St. Irenaeous did NOT write but is added by copyist or translator (that’s why it’s in the brackets – Can you see it now who is speaking truth?)
*Interjection* – Please read in link below (with a photo of the actual Greek Copy proof too) that the ‘forever and ever’ in bracket is ‘added’ by the translator and is NOT found in St. Irenaeous’ Original Writing:
https://www.facebook.com/785428511491071/posts/2453927084641197/
Continue:
St. Irenaeous clearly affirms that the phrase “aeons of Aeons” is NOT idiomatic but refers only to the smaller “aeons” (literal reading as in the Young’s Literal Translation, YLT Bible), in his words proving this claim:
“… Nay, we ourselves, when at the giving of thanks we pronounce the words, “To Aeons of Aeons” do set forth these Aeons…”
Yes, we (true Christians) – – – > “do set forth these Aeons” when reading the phrase “To Aeons of Aeons”.
The common ground between the ‘Gnostic heretics’ and ‘true Christians’ using the phrase “aeons of Aeons” is that the former refers to it as some type of ‘being’ (or living creature) while the latter (e. g. St. Irenaeous) believes it to mean the reference of limited but unknown long time only, i. e. the “aeons” or “ages” as explained by St. Irenaeous in quote above (‘Context’).
Yes, St. Irenaeous’ confirmation of “time order of Aeons” (example: AEON1, AEON2, AEON3 etc.) is “Biblical” as St. Irenaeous own words above prove irrefutably, quoted again below for clarity:
“Paul also, they affirm, very clearly and frequently names these Aeons, and even goes so far as to preserve their order,” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons
The phrase ‘they [the Gnostic Heretics] affirm’ points that even the Gnostic heretics know this truth but only that the Gnostic heretics manipulate it to mean some type of living creature as St. Irenaeous says,
“And, in fine, wherever the words Aeon or Aeons occur, they [the Gnostic Heretics] at once refer them to these beings.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons
Also, St. Irenaeous of Lyons indicates that apostle Paul’s usage of “Aeons” must be literal for example the phrase “Aeons to come” (in Ephesians 2:7) must thus refer ‘literally’ to ‘AEON2, AEON3,… ‘ (plural – at least two future ages) while the Blashphemy of the Holy Spirit is only punished in the current “Aeon” (AEON1) and the next “coming aeon” (AEON2) establishing hope in AEON3 onward.
Likewise, Matthew 25:46 refers to AEON2 as explained in previous posts.
A Christian doesn’t need to believe in St. Irenaeous but automatically believes in St. Augustine if it is so but claiming that “St. Irenaeous believed in the phrase aeons of Aeons to mean forever and ever is an obvious lie”.
Between St. Irenaeous vs St. Augustine, I will believe St. Irenaeous as the former is way more authoritative and heard from Polycarp who in turn heard from apostle John who wrote the Book of Revelation itself, and hence cannot be wrong.
Source:
Also, the phrase “age-during God” or “Olam God” does NOT limit God to exist to one age only but highlights His Glory or Endurance to the End of the age & lasting beyond it. Here’s a simple Biblical Proof of this Correct Language Meaning a claimed here:
To Quote:
A common objection is that (even Augustine of Hippo argued similarly):
“Then eternal life is not endless, for the same Greek adjective qualifies life and punishment.”
This does not follow, for the word is used in Greek in different senses in the same sentence; as Hab. iii:6 (Habakkuk 3:6). “And the everlasting mountains were scattered –his ways are everlasting.” Suppose we apply the popular argument here. The mountains and God must be of equal duration, for the same word is applied to both. Both are temporal or both are endless. But the mountains are expressly stated to be temporal –they “were scattered,” –therefore God is not eternal. Or God is eternal and therefore the mountains must be. But they cannot be, for they were scattered. The argument does not hold water. The aiónion mountains are all to be destroyed. Hence, the word may denote both limited and unlimited duration in the same passage, the different meanings to be determined by the subject treated.
[1 Timothy 6:16]
1 Tim. vi:16 [1 Timothy 6:16], “Who only hath immortality (athanasian).”
Now these words are applied to God and the soul’s happiness. They are words that in the Bible are never applied to punishment, or to anything perishable. They would have been affixed to punishment had the Bible intended to teach endless punishment. And certainly they show the error of those who declare that the indefinite word aiónion is all the word, or the strongest word in the Bible declarative of the endlessness of the life beyond the grave. A little more study of the subject would prevent such reckless statements and would show that the happy, endless life does not depend at all on the pet word of the partialist critics.
*Note that it may be added here that these universalists may argue the interpretation in two ways for the second part of the verse in [1 Timothy 6:16]:
First group: ‘everlasting (aionion) power’ because they would argue that the subject to which it is applied to is God, and therefore the power is ‘everlasting’ not because of the adjective that describes it (aionon) in itself means everlasting (because in its literal meaning is ‘age’) but rather due to the ‘fact’ in ‘Greek/Hebrew’ language that the meaning can be taken from the ‘subject’ to which it is applied. Since God is immortal, hence His power is eternal.
Second group: ‘age-during power’ because this does not mean that His power lasts only for an age but just highlights it – just like God of Israel does not mean He is not God of all. Also, consider the adjective ‘great’. Now the phrase ‘a great man’ and ‘a great God’ uses the same adjective namely, ‘great’. But in the former (when applied to man) it is certainly ‘limited greatness’ and not the same as the ‘great’ when it is applied to God in which case the ‘greatness is unlimited (eternal or infinite)’. Note that the literal meaning of great is not infinite.
I would quote Lee Salisbury’s writing on this as I almost 100% agree with his way of interpreting it (The full tract of ‘Eternity explained’ can be found at www.tentmaker.org):
Aeonios Life—Aeonios Punishment
The most common objection arises with the realization that if aeonios life for the righteous will one day be completed, then aeonios punishment for the unregenerate will also one day be completed. Most prominent support for the traditional doctrine of eternal punishment is in Matthew 25:46 where aeonios punishment is contrasted to aeonios life. “Then they will go away to eternal (aeonios) punishment, but the righteous to eternal(aeonios) life.” It is argued that the latter is supposed to mean endless life, hence the former supposedly means endless punishment. If the punishment is limited, the life must also be limited, the duration of each being expressed by the same word. Though the reasoning appears logical, it is based upon the unfortunate mistranslation of the word “aeonios.”
Even if the premises for eternal punishment in Matt.25:46 were true, it is clear from Rom.16:25-26, that “aeonios” does not mean “eternal.” Here again “aeonios” occurs twice, “According to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past (aeonios), but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal (aeonis) God.” “Aeonios” cannot mean “eternal” when it speaks of the gospel’s being kept secret “since the world began,” (KJV), “for long ages past” (NIV). If “aeonios” meant “eternal” (perpetual), then the gospel would still be a secret, for there would be no succession of ages before which it was a secret nor after which it could be revealed. The same truth is revealed in Titus 1:2. “In hope of eternal (aeonios) life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began (before times aeonios).” Though God is certainly eternal, the second use of “aeonios” in Rom.16:26, refers to Him as the God of the ages, just as he is the God of Israel or the God of Abraham.
Uniformity Eliminates Confusion
The fact is “aeonios” wherever it is used in the New Testament has one uniform meaning. When applied to God, He is the aeonis God, or the God of the ages, i.e., the Being who through aeons of time is working out His wonderful plan. The word “aeonios” has the force of belonging to, or in connection with the ages; for example, “aeonios life,” “aeonios salvation,” “aeonios redemption,” “aeonios inheritance,” “aeonios fire,” and “aeonios punishment” (see John 3:16; Heb.5:9; 9:12,15; Jude 7; Matt.25:46). To suggest that “aeonios” means “endless times” or “endless ages,” is not only a contradiction of terms, but nonsensical and confusing. It is equivalent to suggesting an “infinite finite,” a “limitless limit,” a “something nothing” or a “full vacuum.” An age is a span of time, a period of existence. Though seemingly immeasurable to man, nevertheless it is of limited duration.
Source:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/aion-aionion-literal-one-translation/
Saved from What?
Context for the Verse in Image – Saved from the Day of Wrath
“and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.” (1 Thessalonians 1:10, NASB)
“hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them to the utmost.” (1 Thessalonians 2:16, NASB)
Next, those Saved (Christians, His Bride, Sheepfold1 only) become part of the First Resurrection and Reign for a Thousand Years on Earth with Him first (Revelation 20:4 – 6, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18).
Prophecy – This Generation – Which Generation? to Sheepfold1 vs Sheepfold2
Firstly a fact: Both Non-preterists and preterists agree that 69 weeks out of the Infamous 70 weeks prophet Daniel’s Prophecy relates to about the times circa, 30 AD to 33 AD.
What happens next toward the Fulfillment of the Remaining 1 week of Prophecy which includes the ‘Antichrist’ or the ‘abomination of desolation’?
Lord Jesus Christ Answers His Own Words of Prophecy regarding “which generation” in Verses below:
Verses in Matthew 24 – 25
The “this generation” Verse:
Christ Replies no one knows when yet (for the fulfillment of the Matthew 24 – 25 Prophecies which relates to the remaining last 1 week of Daniel’s 70 weeks Prophecy) but states that the time “now” is to be “His Witnesses” which is Described as the early part of Matthew 24 itself (Matthew 24:3 – 14) proving again that Matthew 24 onward Describes this last 1 week of Daniel’s 70 week Prophecy, to quote:
“So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” (Acts 1:6 – 8, NASB)
“This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:14, NASB)
Please note carefully how Acts 1:8 and Matthew 24:14 correlate as shown above proving that the ‘later’ verse (Matthew 24:34) regarding ‘this generation’ refers to the ‘last future generation’ into which all the remaining prophecies will be fulfilled just before ‘summer’ where ‘summer refers to the 1000 years Millennial Reign of the Messiah’ (Revelation 20:4 – 6) after His “Visible” (not symbolic) Return (Acts 1:9 – 11, Consecutive Verses Context after Speaking Acts 1:6 – 8 quoted earlier first) and certainly not a ‘night nor a dark time like the dark ages as preterists imply’.
Verses for this part of the Prophecy “in full” to understand these parts accurately (Remaning 1 Week) :
“Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” (Matthew 24:1 – 2, NASB)
Please notice carefully that Christ did NOT include the Prophecy regarding the Destruction of the Temple in 70 AD (Prophesied in Matthew 24:1 – 2 abovepl) as part of the Prophecy regarding “His Coming to the End of this Age, AEON1” which He replies later (so excluding Verses above) in Matthew 24:3 – Matthew 25. Can you see it too?
No one except the Father knows:
“He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” (Acts 1:7 – 8, NASB)
Please read: Matthew 24:3 – 14.
“Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. “For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:32 – 37, NASB)
“And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:9 – 11, NASB)
“Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.” (Revelation 20:4 – 6, NASB)
Conclusion
Acts 1:6 – 8, the kingdom times of Israel including any prophecy from Matthew 24 – 25 which relates to the establishment of the Jewish Messiah’s Reign Context.
The Disciples asked Him again “when” in Acts 1:6 – 8 post His Resurrection and He didn’t answer “This Generation” but indicated an unknown future time for the remaining 1 week as 69 weeks have past at that time (circa 30 AD – 33 AD).
Christ Defines His Own “this generation” of the last 1 week as not from that timeline (in 30 AD – 33 AD, circa) in His Own Words agreeing to First Christianity understanding of it thereafter.
Those prophecies (Matthew 24:15 onward to Matthew 25) are not referring to ‘this generation’ of Christ’s Lifetime (Acts 1:6 – 8).
In other words, those prophecies (Matthew 24:15 onward to Matthew 25) are referring to the ‘last generation of the fig tree parable’ called ‘this generation’ (in Matthew 24:34) referring to the last generation just before Christ’s Literal Return the same way He was Resurrected (Acts 1:10 – 11).
Yes, these prophecies (Matthew 24:3 – 14) refer to the time ‘now’ till an unknown future time (Acts 1:6 – 8) where the sign given just prior to that ‘last generation’ (or ‘this generation in the parable of the fig tree’, Matthew 24:32 – 34) is that the ‘Gospel will be Preached’ (Acts 1:8, Matthew 24:14).
First Christianity (St, Irenaeous, St, Justin Martyr and all the rest preached this same truth, till the 2nd century) with not one teaching otherwise sir.
P/S: Biblical Timeline Context
In short, the Verses in Matthew itself proves this Biblical Timeline using Sola Scriptura itself:
i). The Destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in 70 AD (is Prophesied in Matthew 24:1 – 2)
iii) A Wait Period or Pause is Introduced by the Lord around circa 30 AD – 33 AD till an unknown future date
The Gospel is Preached now in the wait Period post His Resurrection circa 30 – 33 AD onward till an unknown date which only the Father knows (Matthew 24:3 – 14, Acts 1:6 – 8)
The “last generation” is the “this generation” in the Parable of the fig tree which endures the missing/remaning last 1 week of the Daniel Prophecy toward the Antichrist till Christ Returns to Destroy him (Matthew 24:15 – 51 & Matthew 25:1 – 13 too, Acts 1:10 – 11, most of Revelation till Revelation 19).
After Christ’s Return, the Devil (Satan) is locked up for 1000 years in the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:1 – 3) while Christ Reigns with Christians (His Bride, Sheepfold1 only) for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4 – 6 toward CHRISTIANS’ First Resurrection in the ‘hour now is on the Last Day, John 5:25, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18 too’ and Matthew 25:14 – 18 toward Israel, the human ‘servant’ during that 1000 years time).
The phrase “after a long time” in Matthew 25:19 (consecutive verse) refers parabolically to this 1000 years Millennial Reign.
Judgment Day Verses after the Millennial Reign is over (final resurrection at the ‘hour is coming’ on this Last Day, John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2):
Please note that the sheep in Matthew 25 cannot be Christians as they seem surprised to be doing good works to the Lord & also Sheepfold1 (Christians alone are already resurrected 1000 years earlier, Revelation 20:5 and do not come into any afterlife Judgment, John 5:24).
These Sheepfold2 must have believed after seeing the Lord or through His Apostles in Hades (afterlife regions) itself as Described in the Shepherd of Hermas Book as expounded even by St. Clement of Alexandria or St. Justin Martyr or even St. Athanasius as explained in previous posts (agreeing to ‘the believing after seeing, less blessed context’, John 6:40, John 3:14 – 15, John 20:29-in Principle, 1 Peter 3:18 – 19-to those before His Advent focusing on the righteous Jews first & thereafter the ‘Gospel is Preached to the Dead’ in 1 Peter 4:6-to those after His Advent).
Christ Himself mentions that we may “Marvel” be surprised that there is another badge of ‘Sheepfold2’ which rises after the 1000 years (John 5:28 – 29, Revelation 20:5).
Please note that the remaining dead ones in body (i.e. ‘all in the tombs’) rise during this later hour called ‘hour is coming’ (John 5:28) on this Last Day of Resurrection (John 11:24) which is ‘after 1000 years of the Dead in Christ’s Rising’ (Revelation 20:5, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 20:6) which was called the ‘hour now is’ on this Last Day in John 5:25.
Yes, John 5:25 mentions ‘two resurrections of the righteous’ one in the ‘hour now is’ (Sheepfold1) while the other in the ‘hour is coming’ (Sheepfold2) which are separated by a thousand years which is understood when seen with the other Verses aforementioned.
Please note
Accurate Exegesis Please consider briefly:
Yes, that’s why the later Resurrection is called the ‘General Resurrection’ in First Christianity’s writings such as St. Justin Martyr, St. Irenaeous, even till the time of Hippolytus of Rome too, to quote:
“For concerning the GENERAL RESURRECTION and the kingdom of the saints, Daniel says: “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting [age-during] life, and some to shame and everlasting [age-during] contempt.” And Isaiah says: “The dead shall rise, and those in the tombs shall awake, and those in the earth shall rejoice.” And our Lord says: “Many in that [Last] Day shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live” (Hippolytus. On the End of the World, Chapter XXXVI. Excerpted from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 5. Edited by Alexander Roberts & James Donaldson. American Edition, 1886. Online Edition Copyright © 2005 by K. Knight).
Yes, Hippolytus himself referred to the hope which is NOT possible for others but the Christian dead ONLY (in 1 Thessalonians 4:13) to refer to the ‘First Resurrection’ or the ‘Resurrection of the Just only’ (tying up 1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 17 to Revelation 20:4 – 6 & Luke 14:14) agreeing perfectly to our exegesis in obedience to 2 Peter 1:20 as well, as NO Prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, to quote:
” Concerning the RESURRECTION of the RIGHTEOUS, Paul also speaks thus in writing to the Thessalonians: “We would not have you to be ignorant concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive (and) remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice and trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive (and) remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” – Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD, TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, Point 66)
Yes, the ‘the Sheepfold2 and wicked’ are raised simultaneously during this final ‘General Resurrection’ (John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2) and thus the ‘righteous’ in these Verses cannot refer to Sheepfold1 who are already raised one thousand years earlier (Revelation 20:5).
The Earliest Orthodox Church Leaders such as St. Justin Martyr, St. Irenaeous even till the time of Hippolytus of Rome clearly call this later Resurrection as the ‘General Resurrection’ which itself proves that ‘there is a second badge of sheep or righteous, Sheepfold2 vs wicked’ & this Judgment is entirely based on Good Works vs Bad Works alone, ‘Sola Scriptura’ (as the Verses describing it in John 5:28 – 29, Daniel 12:2 and even Matthew 25:31 – 46, Revelation 20:11 – 15 all NEVER MENTION FAITH as part of a requirement to be Judged by).
This ‘Last future Resurrection’ of the ‘General Resurrection’ containing both ‘good sheep (Sheepfold2) vs wicked (goats)’ based on ‘works’ simultaneously is mentioned by St, Irenaeous himself silencing the ‘prevalent symbolic look at this simultaneous mention’, to quote:
” that His words concerning its [future] resurrection may also be believed; so also at the end, when the Lord utters His voice “by the last trumpet,” the dead shall be raised, as He Himself declares: “The hour shall come, in which all the dead which are in the tombs shall hear the voice of the Son of man, and shall come forth; those that have done good to the resurrection of life, and those that have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XIII, Book III)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
Christians or ‘Dead in Christ’ or Sheepfold1 together with the rest of believers who are alive are Raised/Transformed by an ‘earlier Trumpet’ (1 Thessalonians 4:16) for the ‘First Resurrection’ (1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 20:4 – 6) while the ‘Sheepfold2 & Wicked are Raised later with the ‘LAST Trumpet’ for the ‘General Resurrection’ (as St. Irenaeous mentions above too) proving different times as claimed too.
This was First Christianity’s View, to quote:
“Philip Schaff, the dean of American church historians and himself a postrnillennialist, provided the following summary of the early church’s view of the millennium: “The most striking point in the eschatology of the ante-Nicene age is the prominent chiliasm, or millenarianism, that is the belief of a visible reign of Christ in glory on earth with the risen saints for a thousand years, before the general resurrection and judgment. It was indeed not the doctrine of the church embodied in any creed or form of devotion, but a widely current opinion of distinguished teachers, such as Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Methodius, and Lactantius.”
Source for that Famous Quote:
http://www.ldolphin.org/premillhist.html
Please note that if the ‘General Resurrection’ means only the ‘wicked’, it would be called the ‘Resurrection of Judgment’ instead as per the Phrase found in John 5:28 – 29 which is not the case. It is called ‘General Resurrection’ in these earliest most authoritative church writings outside the Bible because it contains both a resurrection to life vs judgment as per their works as mentioned in Daniel 12:2, John 5:28 – 29, Matthew 25:31 – 46 (no mention of ‘you had faith in Me or equivalent to these sheep, Sheepfold2’ here either), Revelation 20:11 – 15). Please note again that the Sheepfold2 are genuinely surprised that they are saved (Matthew 25:31 – 46) proving that these must belong to those who did NOT know Him earlier and Christ Himself said that we (Sheepfold1) will “Marvel” at this ‘General Resurrection’ containing them (implied in John 5:28 – 29).
No one from Sheepfold1 will be Surprised and ask the Lord back these things as we know the Lord already on earth itself (John 10:14). So the righteous below must refer to Sheepfold2:
“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 25:37 – 40, NASB)
Hence, St. Clement of Alexandria’s Exegesis regarding this existence of Sheepfold2 must thus be correct be it they are saved from Hades itself, to quote:
“… One righteous man, then, differs not, as righteous, from another righteous man, whether he be of the Law or a Greek. For God is not only Lord of the Jews, but of all men, and more nearly the Father of those who know Him. For if to live well and according to the law is to live, also to live rationally according to the law is to live; and those who lived rightly before the Law were classed under faith, and judged to be righteous, — it is evident that those, too, who were outside of the Law, having lived rightly, in consequence of the peculiar’ nature of the voice, though they are in Hades and in ward, on hearing the voice of the Lord, whether that of His own person or that acting through His apostles, with all speed turned and believed. For we remember that the Lord is “the power of God,” and power can never be weak.” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c.150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 6, Chapter VI)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
Believing after Seeing? Verse in Image (John 6:40, literally).
Believing after seeing or hearing in Hades?
Please note these phrases ‘carefully’ from the above:
Sheepfold2 had some Moral Compass which agreed with God’s Moral Law
“it is evident that those, too, who were outside of the Law, having lived rightly,” – St. Clement of Alexandria
Sheepfold2 hears the Preaching of the Gospel in Hades not being Saved before that
” in consequence of the peculiar’ nature of the voice, though they are in Hades and in ward,” – St. Clement of Alexandria
iii. Sheepfold2 hears the Preaching of the Gospel by the Lord (1 Peter 3:18 – 19) or through His Apostles or Teachers (1 Peter 4:6) in Hades
“though they are in Hades and in ward, on hearing the voice of the Lord, whether that of His own person or that acting with all speed turned and believed.” – St. Clement of Alexandria
Sheepfold2 hears the Gospel in Hades and believes after seeing there (John 6:40)
“though they are in Hades and in ward, on hearing the voice of the Lord, whether that of His own person or that acting through His apostles, with all speed turned and believed.” – St. Clement of Alexandria
Note: The Preaching of the Gospel in Hades is not a one time event by Christ only because it happened even after the apostles died as the Shepherd of Hermas Writing quoted by St. Clement of Alexandria proves too (as discussed in a recent previous post).
Conclusion – Is this Hope of Salvation from Hades available now or only for those before His Advent?
To quote (from that same translation source), please consider further:
“So I think it is demonstrated that the God being good, and the Lord powerful, they save with a righteousness and equality which extend to all that turn to Him, whether here or elsewhere. For it is not here alone that the active power of God is beforehand, but it is everywhere and is always at work. Accordingly, in the Preaching of Peter, the Lord says to the disciples after the resurrection, “I have chosen you twelve disciples, judging you worthy of me,” whom the Lord wished to be apostles, having judged them faithful, sending them into the world to the men on the earth, that they may know that there is one God, showing clearly what would take place by the faith of Christ; that they who heard and believed should be saved; and that those who believed not, after having heard, should bear witness, not having the excuse to allege, We have not heard.
What then? Did not the same dispensation obtain in Hades, so that even there, all the souls, on hearing the proclamation, might either exhibit repentance, or confess that their punishment was just, because they believed not? And it were the exercise of no ordinary arbitrariness, for those who had departed before the advent of the Lord (not having the Gospel preached to them, and having afforded no ground from themselves, in consequence of believing or not) to obtain either salvation or punishment. For it is not right that these should be condemned without trial, and that those alone who lived after the advent should have the advantage of the divine righteousness. But to all rational souls it was said from above, “Whatever one of you has done in ignorance, without clearly knowing God, if, on becoming conscious, he repent, all his sins will be forgiven him.” “For, behold,” it is said, “I have set before your face death and life, that ye may choose life.” “God says that He set, not that He made both, in order to the comparison of choice. And in another Scripture He says, “If ye hear Me, and be willing, ye shall eat the good of the land. But if ye hear Me not, and are not willing, the sword shall devour you: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken these things.” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c.150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 6, Chapter VI)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
Can you see it?
Please consider ‘carefully again’ in St. Clement’s own words:
Hope in Hades to believe after seeing there for those BEFORE His Advent
“What then? Did not the same dispensation obtain in Hades, so that even there, all the souls, on hearing the proclamation, might either exhibit repentance, or confess that their punishment was just, because they believed not? And it were the exercise of no ordinary arbitrariness, for those who had departed before the advent of the Lord (not having the Gospel preached to them, and having afforded no ground from themselves, in consequence of believing or not) to obtain either salvation or punishment. ” – St. Clement of Alexandria
Hope in Hades to believe after seeing there for those AFTER His Advent
“What then? Did not the same dispensation obtain in HADES, so that even there, ALL THE SOULS, on hearing the proclamation, might either exhibit repentance, or confess that their punishment was just, because they believed not? And it were the exercise of no ordinary arbitrariness, for those who had departed BEFORE the ADVENT of the Lord (not having the Gospel preached to them, and having afforded no ground from themselves, in consequence of believing or not) to obtain either salvation or punishment. For it is not right that these should be condemned without trial, and that those alone who lived AFTER the ADVENT should have the ADVANTAGE of the divine righteousness. But to ALL RATIONAL SOULS it was said from above, “Whatever one of you has done in ignorance, without clearly knowing God, if, on becoming conscious, he repent, all his sins will be forgiven him.” ” – St. Clement of Alexandria
Please note that the Context of St. Clement is obvious in that —-> to “ALL THE SOULS” —> “in HADES” —> “on hearing the proclamation, might either exhibit repentance, or confess that their punishment was just, because they believed not?” —> inclusive of both —> “those who had departed BEFORE the ADVENT of the Lord” —> and ” that those alone who lived AFTER the ADVENT should have the ADVANTAGE of the divine righteousness” —> that is, “to ALL RATIONAL SOULS it was said from above [Context: Gospel Preached in Hades or elsewhere]” —> “Whatever one of you has done in ignorance, without clearly knowing God, if, on becoming conscious, he repent, all his sins will be forgiven him.”
iii. No Time-Space Limit nor other Limits of Christ Saving from Hades or from elsewhere
“it is evident that those, too, who were outside of the Law, having lived rightly, in consequence of the peculiar’ nature of the voice, though they are in Hades and in ward, on hearing the voice of the Lord, whether that of His own person or that acting through His apostles, with all speed turned and believed. For we remember that the Lord is “the power of God,” and power can never be weak. So I think it is demonstrated that the God being good, and the Lord powerful, they save with a righteousness and equality which extend to all that turn to Him, whether here or elsewhere. For it is not here alone that the active power of God is beforehand, but it is everywhere and is always at work.” – St. Clement of Alexandria (c.150 AD – c. 215 AD, Stromata, Book 6, Chapter VI)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
To Quote from the above ‘carefully’ in the ‘Context of Salvation from Hades at ANY TIME with NO LIMIT’
Phrases: ” though they are in Hades and in ward” —> “all that turn to Him, whether here or elsewhere” —> “on hearing the voice of the Lord, whether that of His own person or that acting through His apostles,” —> “with all speed turned and believed ” —–> and “the active power of God is beforehand, but it is everywhere and is always at work”.
No Time Limit for Salvation from Hades
Focus Phrase from the above: “always at work”
No Physical nor any other limit for Christ Saving from Hades
Focus Phrase from the above: “everywhere and is always at work”.
Source:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/forever-in-the-bible/
Another Quote:
“But how? Do not [the Scriptures] show that. the Lord preached the Gospel to those that perished in the flood, or rather had been chained, and to those kept “in ward and guard”? And it has been shown also, in the second book of the Stromata, that the apostles, following the Lord, preached the Gospel to those in Hades. For it was requisite, in my opinion, that as here, so also there, the best of the disciples should be imitators of the Master; so that He should bring to repentance those belonging to the Hebrews, and they the Gentiles; that is, those who had lived in righteousness according to the Law and Philosophy, who had ended life not perfectly, but sinfully. ” – St. Clement of Alexandria (Stromata, Book 6, Chapter VI)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book6.html
More quotes of St. Clement of Alexandria in this context is in recent posts too.
In the above, Sheepfold2 (non – Christian good are defined as):
“those belonging to the Hebrews, and they the Gentiles; that is, those who had lived in righteousness according to the Law and Philosophy, who had ended life not perfectly, but sinfully” – St. Clement of Alexandria
St. Athanasius of Alexandria or St. Athanasius the Great, the ‘father of Orthodoxy’ (c. 328 AD – c. 373 AD) implies that Christ Saves Sheepfold2 from “Hades” even ‘now’ (please note this word “Hades” carefully in the quote below):
“And if a man has gone down even to HADES, and stands awestruck before the heroes who have descended thither, regarding them as gods, still he may see the fact of Christ’s resurrection and His victory over death, and reason from it that, of all these, He alone is very Lord and God. For the Lord touched all parts of creation, and freed and undeceived them all from every deceit. As St. Paul says, “Having put off from Himself the principalities and the powers, He triumphed on the cross,”(Col. 2. 15) so that no one could possibly be any longer deceived, but everywhere might find the very Word of God. For thus man, enclosed on every side by the works of creation and everywhere-in heaven, in HADES, in men and on the earth, beholding the unfolded Godhead of the Word, is no longer deceived concerning God, but worships Christ alone, and through Him rightly knows the Father. On these grounds, then, of reason and of principle, we will fairly silence the Gentiles in their turn. But if they think these arguments insufficient to confute them, we will go on in the next chapter to prove our point from facts.” – St. Athanasius the Great, ‘father of orthodoxy’ (‘On the Incarnation’)
Translation Source:
https://www.worldinvisible.com/library/athanasius/incarnation/incarnation.7.htm
Please note that the post mortem evangelism in Hades may not be limited to ‘those who never heard the Gospel only’ as the original quotes by each of St. Justin Martyr, St. Clement of Alexandria and St. Athanasius shown here do NOT limit it to them only but toward anyone who has lived a relatively moral life by Christian Values though died unbelieving or sinfully.
Example:
“… so that no one could possibly be any longer deceived, but everywhere might find the very Word of God. For thus man, enclosed on every side by the works of creation and everywhere-in heaven, in HADES … ” – St. Athanasius the Great (from the quote prior)
Yes, such Gentiles who has encountered the Word of God in HADES end up believing in Him, and worships Christ (‘repentance in the afterlife context’).
Really?
Please read carefully from quote above again:
“… so that no one could possibly be any longer deceived, but everywhere might find the very Word of God. For thus man, enclosed on every side by the works of creation and everywhere-in heaven, in HADES, in men and on the earth, beholding the unfolded Godhead of the Word, is no longer deceived concerning God, but worships Christ alone, and through Him rightly knows the Father…” – St. Athanasius the Great
Focus on “Hades”, the quote above condensed:
“… For thus man, … in HADES, …, beholding the unfolded Godhead of the Word (John 6:40), is no longer deceived concerning God, but worships Christ alone, and through Him rightly knows the Father…” – St. Athanasius the Great
Source:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/repentance-is-afterlife-repentance-possible/
God is Good.
St. Justin Martyr himself confirms that this literal view is truth regarding the ‘First Resurrection’ vs the ‘General Resurrection’ separated by a thousand years Millennial Reign too, to quote:
“… We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal [age-during] resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, ‘They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.” – St. Justin Martyr (‘Dialogue with Trypho’)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Christ Defined believing to also include ‘the definition of believing after seeing too, in principle of John 20:29’.
Believing in Faith is only for Christians because these believe now on earth itself without seeing (Definition: Hebrews 11:1 onward).
So, the sheep in Matthew 25 according to the Timeline Context Defined by the Lord (Matthew 24:3) must refer to Sheepfold2 (John 10:16) while the Christian Sheep (John 10:14) was referred earlier already as His Bride in Matthew 25:1 – 13.
Can you really see it now?
*The Judgment-part based on faith is to be part of the First Resurrection where the rest of the dead do not have this hope except believers in Faith of Jesus Christ (1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18, Revelation 20:4 – 6).
Peace to you
Saviour of the World – How?
Verses from John 6:
Drinking His Flesh and Blood too – Results in “having life in themselves too” and being Raised during the First Resurrection (‘hour now is’ on the Last Day, John 5:25):
“Jesus, therefore, said to them, ‘Verily, verily, I say to you, If ye may not eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and may not drink His Blood, ye have no life in yourselves; he who is eating My Flesh, and is drinking My Blood, hath life age-during, and I will raise him up in the Last Day.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 6:53 – 54, YLT)
“and this is the will of Him who sent me, that every one who is beholding* the Son, and is believing in him, may have life age-during, and I will raise him up in the Last Day.’ – Lord Jesus Christ (John 6:40, YLT)
*Greek: Literally “seeing”.
This Context is strong because the Greek Word in John 6:40 [2334 = theōrōn] is stronger than the Greek Word in John 6:36 regarding ‘seeing’ where the John 6:40’s Greek word is inclusive of the ‘earthly seeing’ (of John 6:36, 3708-heōrakate) plus ‘looking with analyzing intent/discernment’ as per definition below:
2334 theōréō (from 2300 /theáomai, “to gaze, contemplate”) – gaze on for the purpose of analyzing (discriminating).
[2334 (theōréō) is the root of the English term “theatre,” i.e. where people concentrate on the meaning of an action (performance).]
Source:
https://biblehub.com/greek/2334.htm
Thus the one ‘seeing (beholding) and believing’ (be it in Hades or elsewhere, based on John 3:14 – 15 too which sets the afterlife context as Christ is already ‘Lifted Up’) based on John 6:40 causes them to be Resurrected to life during the different later ‘hour is coming’ (John 5:28 – 29) on this ‘Last Day’.
The ‘hour now is’ (first) precedes the ‘hour is coming’ (later) by 1000 years (Revelation 20:5).
The Verse in John 6:40 is in the “believing after seeing” Context literally because Verses in John 6:36 – 37 set this Context-literally first as follows:
“but I said to you, that ye also have seen Me, and ye believe not; all that the Father doth give to Me will come unto Me; and him who is coming unto Me, I may in no wise cast without, … and this is the will of Him who sent me, that every one who is beholding* the Son, and is believing in him, may have life age-during, and I will raise him up in the Last Day.’ – Lord Jesus Christ (John 6:36 – 37, 40, YLT)
The Jews are judged severely in these verses for their unbelief because they “saw Him literally on earth and heard from Him Directly and didn’t believe”.
As Discussed in previous posts, all men may get their fair chance for this likewise in Hades as St. Clement of Alexandria and St. Athanasius the Great imply in their writings.
iii. Rest of Creation (wicked, non-living things being made new to live, post-Lake-of-Fire-Reconciliation-Revelation 22:17 with Revelation 21:5, 8, toward all created things Colossians 1:16, 20, 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28)
All the “World” will live gaining from His Flesh (but NOT His Blood except Sheepfold1 being His Bride – a Great Distinction, please notice this difference carefully from Verses prior) —-> and “live” eventually being “made new” in some way as God Wills (Revelation 21:5):
“I am the bread of the life; your fathers did eat the manna in the wilderness, and they died; this is the bread that out of the heaven is coming down, that any one may eat of it, and not die. ‘I am the living bread that came down out of the heaven; if any one may eat of this bread he shall live — to the age; and the bread also that I will give is my flesh, that I will give for the life of the world [kosmon-2889].” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 6:48 – 51, YLT)
“for the bread of God is that which is coming down out of the heaven, and giving life to the world [kosmon-2889].’ ” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 6:33, YLT)
The Context of Definition of World (in John 6:51, John 6:33) is ‘kosmos’ (in Greek, 2889) which means ‘all created things in it’ as per the Verse below:
“The God who made the world [kosmon-2889] and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;” (Acts 17:24, NASB)
Yes, this Context is Correct as per the same Word “World” [kosmon-2889] in Verses below too (and in image) agreeing Perfectly to this Exegesis ‘as it is Written’:
“and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world [kosmon-2889].” (1 John 2:2, NASB)
“The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world [kosmon-2889]!” (John 1:29, NASB)
“We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. [kosmon-2889]” (1 John 4:14, NASB)
Peace to you
First Christianity – The Parable of the Ten Virgins – Who is the Christian Heretic?
Question
How do we know whether we are the “wise virgins” or the “foolish virgins” as per Matthew 25:1 – 13 where only the former becomes His Bride (His Church, Sheepfold1)?
Reply
Here are the Facts from First Orthodox Christianity:
” According to this course of procedure, therefore, man would always be inquiring but never finding, because he has rejected the very method of discovery. And when the Bridegroom comes, he who has his lamp untrimmed, and not burning with the brightness of a steady light, is classed among those who obscure the interpretations of the parables, forsaking Him who by His plain announcements freely imparts gifts to all who come to Him, and is excluded from His marriage-chamber…” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book 2, Chapter XXVII, Point 2)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html
Focus Phrase pointing to those rejected when He Returns includes (from the above):
“among those who obscure the interpretations of the parables” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons
Please read St. Justin Martyr and St. Irenaeous of Lyons’ writings carefully for accurate doctrinal truth.
Conclusion – Hope
Definitely, St. Irenaeous & St. Justin are right and those Christians who teach contrary to them are wrong.
I know God can save a Christian to be His Bride (Sheepfold1) as He shows Mercy on whom He Wills despite doctrinal errors but why take the risk?
How do I know that pious Christians can be Saved to become His Bride despite doctrinal errors?
Orthodox Quote below (as God Alone Decides):
Christians With Wrong Doctrines but Still Saved
“But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare … Then I [Justin Martyr] answered, “I am not so miserable a fellow, Trypho, as to say one thing and think another. I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion, and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise. …” St. Justin Martyr (AD 100-165)
(Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, CHAPTER LXXX — THE OPINION OF JUSTIN WITH REGARD TO THE REIGN OF A THOUSAND YEARS. SEVERAL CATHOLICS REJECT IT)
Translation Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
Focus Phrases (from quote above, please read ‘carefully’):
“But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare … I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion, and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware;” – St. Justin Martyr
“… but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.” – St. Justin Martyr
Source:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/hell-if-gods-love-is-unconditional-why-does-hell-exist/
Please be “Wise” Scripturally especially in regards to what St. Justin Martyr (approved by St. Irenaeous himself) and St. Ireaeous (third from apostle John, followed by Bishop Polycarp’s hearings itself) taught.
Here’s a quote where St. Irenaeous of Lyons affirms St. Justin Martyr to teach correct doctrine:
To Quote:
This Doctrine of God Reconciling ‘all created things’ back to Himself (Colossians 1:16, 20) or called the Doctrine of Recapitulation in St. Irenaeous’ words, is also believed by St. Justin Martyr:
“… In his book against Marcion, Justin does well say: “I would not have believed the Lord Himself, if He had announced any other than He who is our framer, maker, and nourisher. But because the only-begotten Son came to us from the one God, who both made this world and formed us, and contains and administers all things, summing up His own handiwork in Himself, my faith towards Him is steadfast, and my love to the Father immoveable, God bestowing both upon us.” – – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Chapter XIII, Book III)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
Christ is Both the Saviour of Believers in Faith (Church) and All Men too
“For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 4:10, KJV)
Hence, St. Irenaeous’ Conclusion of the Church which Declares the Wisdom of God in the Context of God Who ‘Saves All Men’ as it is Going Forth Beautifully agrees with 1 Timothy 2:1,4,6, 1 Corinthians 15:20 – 23, Romans 5:18 – 19, Titus 2:11, John 12:32 and 1 Timothy 4:10 too in order of “Time” (Proper Context – 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 Corinthians 15:23, Ephesians 1:9 – 11), to quote:
“… And undoubtedly the preaching of the Church is true and stedfast, in which one and the same way of salvation is shown throughout the whole world. For to her is entrusted the light of God; and therefore the “wisdom” of God, by means of which she saves all men, “is declared in [its] going forth; it uttereth [its voice] faithfully in the streets, is preached on the tops of the walls, and speaks continually in the gates of the city.” For the Church preaches the truth everywhere, and she is the seven-branched candlestick which bears the light of Christ…” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons (‘Against Heresies’, Book V)
Source:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
We Believe and Declare Likewise.
Source:
Schaff admits that the opinions of Irenaeus are doubtful from his (Schaff’s) orthodox standpoint and says: 12 “In the fourth Pfaffian fragment ascribed to him (Stieren I, 889) he says that ‘Christ will come at the end of time to destroy all evil—-and to reconcile all things– from Col. i:20–that there may be an end of all impurity.’
“Christ, who was called the Son of God before the ages*, was manifested in the fullness of time, in order that He might cleanse us through His blood, who were under the power of sin, presenting us as pure sons to His Father, if we yield ourselves obediently to the chastisement of the Spirit. And in the end of time He shall come to do away with all evil, and to reconcile all things, in order that there may be an end of all impurities.” – St. Irenaeous of Lyons
Translation Source for Irenaeous’ Quote:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-fragments.html
*Ages = Aeons
Please note that St. Irenaeous of Lyons affirmed the ‘ages’ (aeons) literal translation understanding and hence his writings are more accurately understood when words such as ‘eternal or everlasting’ are translated accurately as ‘age-during, age, ages’ respectively as per the original Koine Greek.
For example, to quote (link below) for further edification to understand this part:
https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158169069862784
https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158169524017784
https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158170190367784
https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158162723102784
https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158160896692784
https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158159318747784
https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158152938182784
https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158152856227784
https://web.facebook.com/AnonymousChristianMalaysia/posts/2465266693507236?__tn__=K-R
https://web.facebook.com/jonathan.ramachandran/posts/10158138513847784
A Grand Conclusion
No eternal Hell theologian (be it from the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox or Protestant movements) is probably more authoritative than St. Augustine. And the best part is this:
Though St. Augustine declared many false teachers as ‘heretics’, this is what he has to say about ‘Christians who do not believe in an eternal hell’:
Augustine (354-430 A.D.), ‘one of the four great Latin Church Fathers (Augustine, Ambrose, Jerome and Gregory the Great), wrote:
“There are very many in our day, who though not denying the Holy Scriptures, do not believe in endless torments.” – St. Augustine (paraphrased from link below):
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/augustine_enchiridion_02_trans.htm
Surprised?
So any Christian who does NOT believe in an eternal Hell will not be in Hell for that reason at all as St. Augustine affirms above provided that they ‘do NOT deny Holy Scripture’ (Condition).
If St. Augustine lied in his quote above, well he will be in eternal Hell too, right?
I rest my case. Thank you for reading
Theosis – The Highest Gift for His Bride the Church Sheepfold1
The Verse in Image (Psalm 82:1 – 2) speaks of the ‘fallen sons of God’ given their ‘role as gods’ but failed (Psalm 82 in full) and turned evil (Ephesians 6:12).
Christians (His Bride, His Church) will undergo the Highest First Resurrection (Revelation 20:4 – 6) becoming His Bride which Spiritually means to Partake of His Divine Nature (Matthew 25:1 – 13, Revelation 19:7 – 10) when He Returns (1 Thessalonians 4:13 – 18, Matthew 25:13) on that “Day” (Matthew 7:20 – 23).
Christ even Echoed this Hope Prophetically in John 10:34 toward ‘man to become sons of God first, thereafter God’, i.e. toward ‘those worthy’ which refers to His Bride (Christians, Sheepfold1 only – believers now in ‘faith’ only) as the Context of the First Resurrection links this:
“Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but THOSE who are considered WORTHY to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.” (Luke 20:34 – 36, NASB)
Please note this phrase ‘carefully’ from the above: “THOSE who are considered WORTHY to attain to that age and the [First] resurrection from the dead”
.
[Emphasis Mine]
This is Part of the Greatest Blessing only available to Sheepfold1 or Christians (His Bride) as per Verse below which we don’t know fully yet:
“But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 2:9, KJV)
Focus Phrase, toward Who? “them that love Him” only.
Conclusion – Is the above Blasphemy of Truth taught in First Christianity?
Truth, to quote:
In the second century, Irenaeus, bishop of Lyons (c. 130–202) said that God had “become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself.”[3] He added:
Do we cast blame on him [God] because we were not made gods from the beginning, but were at first created merely as men, and then later as gods? Although God has adopted this course out of his pure benevolence, that no one may charge him with discrimination or stinginess, he declares, “I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are sons of the Most High.” … For it was necessary at first that nature be exhibited, then after that what was mortal would be conquered and swallowed up in immortality.[4]
At about the same time, Clement of Alexandria (c. 150–215), wrote: “Yea, I say, the Word of God became a man so that you might learn from a man how to become a god.”[5] Clement further stated that “[i]f one knows himself, he will know God, and knowing God will become like God. . . . His is beauty, true beauty, for it is God, and that man becomes a god, since God wills it. So Heraclitus was right when he said, ‘Men are gods, and gods are men.'”[6] Clement of Alexandria also stated that “he who obeys the Lord and follows the prophecy given through him … becomes a god while still moving about in the flesh.”[7]
Justin Martyr c. 100–165) insisted that in the beginning men “were made like God, free from suffering and death,” and that they are thus “deemed worthy of becoming gods and of having power to become sons of the highest.”[8]
Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria (c. 296–373), stated his belief in literal deification: “The Word was made flesh in order that we might be made gods. … Just as the Lord, putting on the body, became a man, so also we men are both deified through his flesh, and henceforth inherit everlasting life.”[9] Athanasius also observed: “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.”[10][11]
Augustine of Hippo (354–430) said: “But he himself that justifies also deifies, for by justifying he makes sons of God. ‘For he has given them power to become the sons of God’ [referring to John 1:12]. If then we have been made sons of god, we have also been made gods.”[12] “To make human beings gods,” Augustine said, “He was made man who was God” (sermon 192.1.1). Augustine goes on to write that “[they] are not born of His Substance, that they should be the same as He, but that by favour they should come to Him… (Ibid)”.
Theophilus of Antioch (c. 120-190)
“For if He had made him immortal from the beginning, He would have made him God. Again, if He had made him mortal, God would seem to be the cause of his death. Neither, then, immortal nor yet mortal did He make him, but, as we have said above, capable of both; so that if he should incline to the things of immortality, keeping the commandment of God, he should receive as reward from Him immortality, and should become God…”[Primary 9]
Hippolytus of Rome (c. 170-235)
“And you shall be a companion of the Deity, and a co-heir with Christ, no longer enslaved by lusts or passions, and never again wasted by disease. For you have become God: for whatever sufferings you underwent while being a man, these He gave to you, because you were of mortal mould, but whatever it is consistent with God to impart, these God has promised to bestow upon you, because you have been deified, and begotten unto immortality.”[Primary 10]
“If, therefore, man has become immortal, he will also be God. And if he is made God by water and the Holy Spirit after the regeneration of the laver he is found to be also joint-heir with Christ after the resurrection from the dead.”[Primary 11]
Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296-373)
“Therefore He was not man, and then became God, but He was God, and then became man, and that to deify us”
Gregory of Nyssa (c. 335-395)
“Since the God who was manifested infused Himself into perishable humanity for this purpose, viz. that by this communion with Deity mankind might at the same time be deified, for this end it is that, by dispensation of His grace, He disseminated Himself in every believer.”[Primary 15]
“For just as He in Himself assimilated His own human nature to the power of the Godhead, being a part of the common nature, but not being subject to the inclination to sin which is in that nature (for it says: “He did no sin, nor was deceit found in his mouth), so, also, will He lead each person to union with the Godhead if they do nothing unworthy of union with the Divine.”
Maximus the Confessor
“Nothing in theosis is the product of human nature, for nature cannot comprehend God. It is only the mercy of God that has the capacity to endow theosis unto the existing… In theosis, man (the image of God) becomes likened to God, he rejoices in all the plenitude that does not belong to him by nature, because the grace of the Spirit triumphs within him, and because God acts in him.”[13]
Cyril of Alexandria
“[H]e came down into our condition solely in order to lead us to his own divine state.”[14]
“It follows, therefore, that He Who Is, The One Who Exists, is necessarily born of the flesh, taking all that is ours into himself so that all that is born of the flesh, that is us corruptible and perishing human beings, might rest in him. In short, he took what was ours to be his very own so that we might have all that was his.”[15]
“For we too are sons and gods by grace, and we have surely been brought to this wonderful and supernatural dignity since we have the Only Begotten Word of God dwelling within us.”[16]
Gregory of Nazianzus
implores humankind to “become gods for (God’s) sake, since (God) became man for our sake.”[citation needed].
Likewise, he argues that the mediator “pleads even now as Man for my salvation; for He continues to wear the Body which He assumed, until He make me God by the power of His Incarnation.” [17]
“Through the medium of the mind he had dealings with the flesh, being made that God on earth, which is Man: Man and God blended. They became a single whole, the stronger side predominating, in order that I might be made God to the same extent that he was made man.”[18]
Basil of Caesarea stated that “becoming a god is the highest goal of all”
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divinization_(Christian)
P/S: Sola Scriptura – What if they are wrong?
There are certainly correct. If they are all wrong, they will all go to Hell. Can you see it?
Holy Scripture has Deep Meanings which some of it has been Passed Down through Traditions even ‘verbally’ (2 Thessalonians 2:15). When the bests of First Christianity agree (such as on this Doctrine), it’s no point in arguing otherwise.
An Exhortation: Please believe in Lord Jesus Christ now and repent from thy past ways or you may be the ‘many that goes on to the road of destruction’ first in afterlife Judgment (Matthew 7:13) and miss out on this Greatest First Resurrection which makes you “Man” and transforms you to become a “son of God” and finally, “God” by being His “Co-Heir” (Romans 8:17, Galatians 3:29, Ephesians 3:6) as “God is Love” (1 John 4:8) & wishes to share this toward “those worthy” (Matthew 7:20 – 23, Luke 20:35 – 36) and “those who love Him back only as His Bride” (1 Corinthians 2:9, John 14:15, John 15:14, John 14:23).
“Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.” (John 14:23, NASB)
A Direct THEOSIS implying Verse pointing to this “Mystery/Secret” in spiritual analogy of Christ (Bridegroom) and Church (Bride) – Revelation 19:7 – 10 too:
“FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.” – apostle Paul (Ephesians 5:22, NASB)
“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.” – apostle John (1 John 3:2, KJV)
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 17:5, NASB)
Please beware of ‘unbelief’ as ‘if you don’t believe it, you may not be part of it’ (Rule of Faith – Matthew 9:29) but may God have Mercy on whom He Wills (Romans 9:15).
Peace to you
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