Is the god of the Old Testament, the same god, as the god of the New Testament?
Why would a benevolent god tell you it is ok to beat your slave just severely enough that they die after three days? Exodus 21.
Which Verse in Exodus 21, please? Please quote it exactly thank you.
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.
Verse 20 says that if the slave dies as a result of the beating, the slave-owner is punished accordingly.
Verse 21 states that if the slave recovers from his injury after a day or two (implying that the injury is not severe), the slave-owner is not punished.
Recover after a day or two means the slave is able to work at full function meaning that “no” severe injury is present. No one recovers from severe beating and works at full function after a day or two.
Do you think it is a benevolent act to tell someone it is ok to beat their slave?
Yes if the slave did not do as commanded for nothing else can be done if the slave-refuses his task.
The Version I use is NASB and KJV.
The abuse of Law by some slave-owners can be a problem that’s why Verses 20 – 21 were given to protect the slave too during punishment.
“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21“If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.” (Exodus 21: 20 – 21, NASB)
There is no beating if the slave does his work only during disobedience .
Do you think it is a benevolent act to beat your slave? Do you think it is a benevolent act to own a slave?
Slave were owned because they owed a debt or because they were prisoners of war belonging to people who wanted to enslave or kill the Jews in return.
Debt is convertible to work & thus slavery was acceptable. In the other cases, evil men who wanted to enslave or kill the Jews (in war) were captured and instead of being killed, some were offered to be slaves where they reap ‘what they intended to do on others earlier’.
No one is allowed to capture a “normal person who has done no wrong” to become a slave.
The beating of such slaves when they do not serve their punishment rightly is thus justifiable for such “criminals”.
Please show me a Bible Verse which proves that an “innocent” man who has done no wrong being made a slave according to the Law, thank you.
It blatantly says they are the slave owners property. Do you think It is correct to own a human as a piece of property?
Yes under the two cases highlighted in Scripture (if they owed a debt till the debt is paid) and the second is ‘if they are prisoners of war who would have done the same to others be it Jews or others’ (simple: you ‘reap what you sow’).
No other case of slavery is condoned by the Bible. For example, the infamous example of ‘modern so called Christians’ misquoting these Verses and doing the ‘Colonial Power Slavery’ is NOT supported by the Bible Verses as this is a ‘KIDNAPPING & RACISM type’.
I repeat also that, —> Please show me a Bible Verse which proves that an “innocent” man who has done no wrong being made a slave according to the Law, thank you. —> You know why you couldn’t quote such a Verse? –> It does NOT Exist.
‘Slavery’ in the Bible was an ‘alternative to a prison sentence’ but it is ‘better’ since ‘the slave may still be free in some way again (or perhaps free totally one day too if he serves well) & is not locked up in a jail’.
Peace to you
More details in link below:
P/S: Is apostle Paul a liar?
Bonus Question 1
Stop playing naive here. Employing logic is totally unnecessary. Real talk…you all have the power going over beyond the line. In fact Just recently Vatican statement claiming church is beyond Bible.
Commandments and Regulations ended with Jesus.
Ephesians 2:15/Romans 3:20/Romans 10:4
By putting all nailed to the cross. Colossians 2:14
Bonus Reply 1
Some commands still apply to Gentile believers, for example
Acts 15:29, Acts 21:24 – 25 and whatever apostle Paul “wrote” (1 Corinthians 14:37, 2 Peter 3:2).
Bonus Question 2
When lies of Paul (Romans 3:7) accepted as the Gospel since, then you have all the tools to do the same.
Bonus Reply 2
You quoted apostle Paul earlier and now call him a liar?
Romans 3:7 speaks theoretically of “someone” (not Paul) who claims that if their lie increases the Gospel, why are they judged a sinner? To which apostle Paul debunks such positions to be ‘condemned’ in Verse 8.
“7But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner? 8And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), “Let us do evil that good may come”? Their condemnation is just.” (Romans 3:7 – 8, NASB)
Philemon – A New Testament Christian Slave Owner?
How about Philemon’s Case?
The Bible doesn’t specify Philemon’s reason for slavery. A high chance for it is to be debt based & so Philemon is encouraged to do his part well.
New Testament has also the clause “do not resist and evil person” which could explain if Philemon’s slavery keeping attitude was unlawful by God’s Standards, his “Christian slaves” were still not to resist. This position (if true) is weak since a true Christian would “let go” of his slaves if it was wrong by God’s Principles regardless if it’s legal by a government’s standards.
So, the case of “debt slavery” might be a more fitting reason for Philemon’s slave keeping.
This teaching or principle of “perfection” (rewarded in His Kingdom) despite being a slave wrongly by God’s Old Testament standard (though legal in the world, if that’s the case) is evident in principle during Christ’s Ministry on earth when He never resisted the “Roman occupiers” toward the “Jews”.
“Employing logic is unnecessary” statement was made by a theological opponent of mine, not me sir.
Even if we (Christians) were to “resist” an evil rule it had to be done by “Christ’s Way” which ‘seemed logically’ impossible without war/violence but in modern times has been “proven possible” via ‘Mahatma Gandhi’ who by doing so even managed to win the Independence for India!
Please note ‘carefully’ in Verses below (especially in Verses 17 – 20) where apostle Paul puts himself “equal” to the “slave Osenimus” (Philemon’s Slave) and asks Philemon to ‘free him’ (implied in Verse 17 as putting Osenimus equal to Paul) or if not ‘treat Osenimus the slave as a brother (own family – Verses 15 – 16)’:
“10 I appeal to you for my child Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my imprisonment, …
12I have sent him back to you in person, that is, sending my very heart,…
14but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will. 15For perhaps he was for this reason separated from you for a while, that you would have him back forever [AGE-DURINGLY], 16no longer as a slave, but more than a slave, a beloved brother, especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord.
17If then you regard me a partner, accept him as you would me. 18But if he has wronged you in any way or owes you anything, charge that to my account; 19I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand, I will repay it (not to mention to you that you owe to me even your own self as well). ” – apostle Paul to the ‘Osenimus the Slave’s Master, Philemon’ (Philemon 1:10, 12, 14 – 19, NASB)
There is “no” evidence even in Principle in these Verses where the New Testament encourages Slavery. In fact, it seeks the ‘Slave Master’ to ‘let go’ of his slaves (Verses 17 – 19) in a ‘willing manner’ (Verse 14).
Peace to you
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