New Book Titled Last Book – Possibilities and Dangers of Doctrine Free PDF download link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wjDRr6lzDQ-4D60J8sqmDH-S60tCqQIR/view?usp=sharing
#LastBook or #PODBook or #PossibilitiesandDangersofDoctrineBook
Last
Book
Possibilities and Dangers
of Doctrine
by
Jonathan Ramachandran
#PossibilitiesandDangersofDoctrineBook or #PODBook or #LastBook
Introduction
I know a few times earlier that I did not want to write a new book, but I realized that the #MyCV15Oct2023 writing had things chucked in with no content. So this writing just expands a bit on that and puts a content page so that you can easily find the relevant pages if keen. Why is this writing important to be considered? Even if saved, more accurate faith/doctrine shine like heavens which is greater than simply converting many into less accurate faith/doctrine as Daniel 12:3 Prophesied. In the end, ABILITY is more IMPORTANT than AVAILABILITY as ROMANS 10:2 already REVEALED GOD’s WILL in this that “KNOWLEDGE” (i.e. ABILITY in DOCTRINAL – ACCURACY) is more important than even “ZEAL for GOD” (i.e. AVAILABILITY or doing AGAINST say NEW TESTAMENT TRADITIONS but simply converting for God in their own way) according to these BIBLE VERSES as IT IS WRITTEN. In short, anything which affects eternity is vital.
Please allow me something from an earlier introduction from one of my books in regard to the claim that these things which I present are mostly independent of me (meaning the quotes from Church Fathers and Protestant Founders exist even without me quoting it) so I am just presenting the evidence and let God Decide the Verdict (it also means ignoring this writing or ignoring me does not make anyone who is against these quotes as true unless of course the Church Fathers & Protestant Founders must be wrong before they are right): Firstly, please read this book and the evidence and quotes presented in it and then decide whether I am a wolf or a goat (as some accuse) or whether I am a sheep who could be more accurate on some doctrinal points by God’s Grace not by my opinion but via each First Christianity Quote presented. Since I did not author these quotes, being holier or more spiritual than me does not disprove these First Christianity Chiliasm quotes as similarly St. Irenaeous of Lyons can be holier than you or anyone in your entire Church whom I quote most because though he is the latest Doctor of the Church in 2022 only, however in order of existence he is the First Doctor of the Church (to date) and as per the rule of possibility I follow, the earlier a quote is, the more likely I think it’s going to be true.
This book heavily studies CHILIASM PROPHECY TIMELINE and ESCHATOLOGY as a POSSIBILITY (NOT Doctrine since I am not 100% sure) but since the FIRST CHRISTIANITY EVIDENCE is there, I present it as well which I have done say in #ChiliasmBook (whose link can be found in the last pages of this book) but at the same I add more details. Let God Decide who more accurate doctrinally and reward that and have Mercy on our errors especially if we admit we are not 100% sure based on orthodox Christian quotes and evidence (not heretics) and did not take His Name in Vain (Exodus 20:7’s 3rd Commandment) nor told falsely “God told me so” which risks “everlasting reproach” (Jeremiah 23:38 – 40) or even wrongly quote “the Holy Spirit told me so” which is “unforgiven” (Matthew 12:30 – 32) – can you see the dangers here? God Speaks through His Word and also through the writing of those before us in Christianity (Church Fathers & Protestant Founders) but it’s mixed with human errors so we consider possibilities. Also PROPHETS can have ZERO PROPHECY ERROR because the Holy Spirit of God makes ZERO mistakes. So if we have “prophecy errors we believe in” we can be saved if we admit we are not sure but if pride of 100% sure claim is there, then one must be 100% correct when quoting the Holy Spirit and judgment is meted out equally (Matthew 7:1 – 3). Every Christian ought to know where pride leads (doctrinally too) especially if wrong.
Example DISCUSSION (DEBATE) for WHY I think GOD ALLOWED ROMAN CATHOLICS and ORTHODOX to ERR and PROTESTANTISM is not-free of errors either
Those alive in spirit world now does “not” prove praying to saints. Also, St. Ireneaous’ quote & absence of Prayers to Virgin Mary/Saints/Angels in the Bible as well as earliest Christianity (as I showed even by re-organizing the quotes from the catholic source you gave) itself proves that such a practice was not there. Yes indeed that was the original teaching of the Church and we are following that. The fact you guys deviated (but was not seen for thousand years plus) is because one did “not” have access to all those sources like we do today (so it’s understandable how the error spread and not many questioned it but Martin Luther did question it). The fact that the Orthodox (East) and Roman Catholics (West) itself don’t agree on doctrinal points to the effect some see the other “unsaved” (depends which “leader” you ask within their system) itself proves that GOD did NOT give any such final authority of doctrine to a CHURCH which STARTED DIFFERING in DOCTRINE for example about the TOPIC of CHILIASM PROPHECY Timeline itself is evidenced by St. Papias, St. Ireneaous of Lyons, St. Justin of Rome (Justin Martyr), Tertullian, St. Methodius of Olympus, St. Victorinus, St. Melito of Sardis, Lactantius etc. which form actually the EARLIEST CHURCH FATHERS for PROPHECY CONTEXT because the first BIG NAME ROMAN CATHOLICS & ORTHODOX can quote by “NAME” to OPPOSE it is ORIGEN of ALEXANDRIA (who is known for his errors and he is NOT the earliest with those MORE SOUND in DOCTRINE as listed above) which PROVES our POSITION as MORE ACCURATE. ONLY the DETAILS of CHILIASM can be DEBATED (but using those writings which is the MOST HONEST POSITION). So I repeat GOD ONLY APPROVED the CHILIASM CHURCH which is FIRST ROMAN CATHOLIC & ORTHODOX (as proven in your own history writing as I have quoted Catholic example in [Page 307 onward of the #LastBook]) because IT DID NOT DIFFER in DOCTRINE and rest of “Church History” is filled with contradictions etc. as a JUDGMENT of GOD for NOT keeping the ORIGINAL TRADITIONS such as CHILIASM PROPHECY CONTEXT as “SAME”. So since the CHILIASM details are difficult due to LESSER PRESERVATION, I try to RE-CREATE it as a POSSIBILITY (not Doctrine) as no one can be 100% sure. Peace to you
Example “non-Chiliasm Roman Catholic PROOF itself about CHILIASM PROPHECY POSITION as EARLIEST” please see [From Page 307 onward of the #LastBook] with quote and source, NO “empty claims made”. Remember, you can lie about history but you can NEVER CHANGE HISTORY. No point even in having a PHD if turned our wrong in matters of THEOLOGY which AFFECTS ETERNITY (so getting it right on some parts more than others matters as Daniel 12:3 Prophesied which affects the FINAL RESURRECTION BODY GLORY and GREAT REWARD as Matthew 5:12 if PROPHECY “PROPHET” Context you have been “PERSECUTED or DISCRIMINATED” but must be “more right” on some parts) This quote from 1 Clement which was taught to be SCRIPTURE in significant early Christianity (but removed by later councils because it was not written by direct apostle but it does NOT mean it’s not true) PROPHESIES that mainstream (“MAJORITY”) Church may be wrong:
“… Who then among you is NOBLE-MINDED? who compassionate? who FULL OF LOVE? Let him declare, “IF ON MY ACCOUNT SEDITION and DISAGREEMENT AND SCHISMS HAVE ARISEN, I WILL DEPART, I WILL GO AWAY whithersoever you desire, and I WILL DO WHATEVER THE MAJORITY COMMANDS; only let the flock of Christ live on terms of peace with the presbyters set over it.” HE THAT ACTS THUS SHALL PROCURE TO HIMSELF GREAT GLORY IN THE LORD; and EVERY PLACE WILL WELCOME HIM. For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof.” These things they WHO LIVE A GODLY LIFE, that is NEVER TO BE REPENTED OF, BOTH HAVE DONE AND ALWAYS WILL DO. … ” – Blessed St. Clement of Rome, an Apostolic Father being a direct Disciple of the Blessed Apostle St. Peter (c.35 AD – c. 99 AD, 1 Clement Chapter 54)
Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm
Peace 2 u
Simple KPI Measures (Why I never did a Masters nor a PHD as well):
1) How many “new” discoveries made by lecturers in their fields (theory aspect)?
2) How many of those “new” discoveries are used in “daily life” (practical aspect)?
3) Are those discoveries actually “significant”? (meaning or just a “tweaked” problem making it a special case just so that to get a PHD?)
4) How many lecturers are involved in training “competition” level Malaysian National Teams? (Because it’s common knowledge that for example Math Olympiad or even Physics Olympiad or any Olympiad problem is not guaranteed to be solved by a PHD in that field even without looking at solutions – this part proves “quality” as well)
5) Common Problem: Just presenting “known” knowledge in slides with “nothing new discovered” or so called “discoveries” by just tweaking a special case (especially just running statistical analysis on “new dataset” is most prevalent which is good but not best).
6) Peer Measure: I think a significant number of PHD thesis itself would “not” be a PHD say at “Cambridge” or other “Ivy League” universities “nor” even published in ‘those journals’ meaning creating one’s own journal and then publishing and making a PHD out of it may not reflect the “highest quality” PHD in the ‘Global Arena’.
7) What about me? These are the reasons “why” I do “not” do either a “Masters nor a PHD” because I know that I did “not” discover anything “significantly new” in those fields (because say if Cambridge would not view my so called thesis as valid for Masters or PHD then I rather be honest with a Bachelor’s degree only). Probably in “Theology” I may have made some significant discoveries via the writings of Church Fathers but because it cannot be confirmed 100% to be correct (only God Knows) I do not intend to make a living or take money for something like that and rather just share the discovery for free (so judgment is lower or no judgment if wrong since no money taken, presented both sides and even willing to admit it could be wrong).
Example: The “country” which created the car does “not” make most money from car sales since others “copied” it and made more money. This is why “money achievements” are “not” counted as anyone can win by racism, nepotism, controlling economic factors by politics to unwritten trade pacts etc. God Will Judge all.
www.AnonymousChristian.org
Thank you
Original Post
https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2023/11/15/stop-chasing-rankings-boost-quality-of-lecturers-universities-told/
[Text] Highest Type of Education is Discovery and its Greatest Fruit is Giving it away for Free and the No. 1 field is Biblical Theology
1) I rarely find any gem in “Education” studies generally which just talks about “studying” unless the person speaking it can either “discover something new” or “master difficult technical knowledge” as “proof” of his “methods”. Example in “Math”, either someone who discovers something new or someone who can solve even a difficult “Math Olympiad Problem” (not reading from a known solution) is best. I mean if talks are done say in Math but the person himself only can do cut and paste type of Math Questions which others can too without seeing solutions, no big deal, right? Same is true for any other field and not math only.
2) What does the Bible Teach? In Bible Verses below (not opinions of men), we see that the GREATEST DISCOVERY is THEOLOGICAL because such “WISDOM” (knowing GOD and His Will, Proverbs 3:15) reflects back in CHRISTIANS in varying degrees of glory in FINAL RESURRECTION BODY (Daniel 12:3) where the “Agape” (Love) aspect of it (1 Corinthians 13:2) is SHARING that DISCOVERY for FREE (Jeremiah 22:16) which even keeping all other 10 Commandments itself could not achieve “Perfection” as CHRIST Taught (in Matthew 19:21) by RELATIVE MEASURE (Luke 21:1 – 3) as even the example of the MAGI of the EAST shows that NOT all discoveries are known even through “Jews” as the Bible called them “Wise” (Matthew 2:1). Theological discovery can be something “new” (even an interpolation of known Theology) or even just like archeology, something OLD but less known or forgotten etc. as long as it MUST be CORRECT which ONLY GOD can DECIDE but each CHRISTIAN has a chance to try DISCOVER it in THEIR LIVES. Some Verses quoted here in images below and wrong theology means we did it in the FLESH but the RIGHT parts means we GOT it FROM CHRIST (Colossians 2:3).
#Why is this #important? #Daniel12 #Verse 2 to 3 #Prophesied that those who are #Wise (#Accuracy in #Doctrine) #Shine like #Heavens in #Final #Resurrection #Body which is #Way #Greater than #Shining like #Stars for those #Converting #many. Example: #Chiliasm #Irenaeus #Earliest known #Interpretation of #Doctrine #Prophecy #HolySpirit makes #Zero #Prophecy #Errors #FalseProphets #Danger , #Peace2U .
#GOD used St. Athanasius the Great to bring back the DOCTRINE of #TRINITY back into #CHRISTIANITY amongst others (hence the title “#FatherofOrthodoxy“) and a book which he approves his preserved authentic from the “#CHURCHLEADERS” before him namely the #SHEPHERDofHERMAS seems to have “wider” NON ELECT SALVATION POSSIBILITY for example [Please see Pages listed below of the #ChiliasmBook]
These are possibilities (not doctrine) because no one can be sure 100% but I present the evidence and to err like St. Athanasius is okay if he is wrong in this as we quoted “#Orthodox” History (not #heretics).
1) First “Church Father” by “writing” to list 27 New Testament Books (used by most Christians today) but yet St. Athanasius approved and said “Shepherd of Hermas” is for “Greater #accuracy in #Doctrine” [please see Pages 44 to 45 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]
2) POSSIBLE NON ELECT SALVATION Quotes in the “Shepherd of Hermas” (#Pastor of Hermas) writing [please see Pages 51, and especially Pages 155 to 158 onward of the #ChiliasmBook] which seems to include even the #UNBAPTIZED (“not” Baptized and other “#rejected” from #ElectSalvation ones, described parabolically as “stones” for the reason of ‘not repentant & walking in evil desires’ a hope open for those rejecting after #hearing the #gospel please see Pages 157 for this); I am not encouraging ‘rejecting the gospel’ but pointing to such an #authoritative writing saying that. #Difficult.
3) Even St. Irenaeous of Lyons & #Tertullian called this same “Shepherd of Hermas” as “#Scripture” [please see Page 114 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]
4) St. #Irenaeus of Lyons may have alluded to the “Elect Tower” concept found in the “Shepherd of Hermas” opening up the “#possibility for #NONELECTSalvation” for “OUTSIDE the ‘Elect-Tower’ Salvation” which is clearly described too [please see Page 154 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]
5) I repeat some quotes above with other #CHURCHFATHERS for a lengthy discussion [please see Page 905 onward of the #ChiliasmBook] and this same St. Athanasius the GREAT seems to believe that a man can repent in #Hades in these quotes because that person seems only awestruck after #death which he may have believed due to “Shepherd of Hermas” quotes earlier which he approves [please see Page 368 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]. It would be very strange that the “FATHER of ORTHODOXY” approved the “SHEPHERD of HERMAS” Book if it was #wrong, right? Can happen but what are the odds? Let God Decide but erring on this seems okay if wrong (meaning still not proven wrong until we die & see the Spirit World). Presented “both” sides. Peace to you
Link for FB Post for earlier books list etc:
Thank you
#coachjonathanramachandran #jonathanramachandran #matholympiad #Math #FollowChrist #newtestamenttraditions #ApostlePaul #christian #christianity #protestant #Protestantism #ChurchFathers #church #MyCV15OCT2023 .
Link for Christian Discoverers Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100094783954906
Example post below:
[Note I will quote Protestants to Catholics to Orthodox and not cults like mormons, JW etc. as “Christians” letting God Judge who is and not when He Returns]
Field of Study: Physics
Significant titles: Nobel Prize in Physics (1932)
Example Secular Quote (from same Wikipedia link earlier):
“… Werner Karl Heisenberg ⓘ; 5 December 1901 – 1 February 1976)[2] … Heisenberg was awarded the 1932 Nobel Prize in Physics “for the creation of quantum mechanics“.[3][a]. …”
Example Religious Quote: notice that “Heisenberg believed in reading CHURCH FATHERS and HATED the NAZI WAR ACTS and WROTE to FAMILY & FRIENDS (like posting on Facebook today)”, to quote: “… The best evidence suggests that Heisenberg’s spiritual views were a mixture of Platonism and Christianity, and here he was in good company: the company, in fact, of the early Orthodox and Catholic “church fathers” who shaped Christianity. Augustine, for example,. … He [Heisenberg] expressed horror at the regime on many occasions in the years before WW2 in letters to colleagues and family. … He [Heisenberg] refused to sign an “acknowledgement by professors to Adolf Hitler” the same year. …” Peace to you
Source: https://enlightenedcrowd.org/werner-heisenberg-science-mysticism-christianity/
TQ
Last few months of year 2023 has been interesting for my Math Olympiad students, Examples in Image.
#ThankYouNote to #God and #Appreciate #Parents and #Students
#MathOlympiad #MathOlympiadSecondary #MathOlympiadHighSchool
#MathOlympiad #MathOlympiadElementarySchool #MathOlympiadPrimary
#coachjonathanramachandran #jonathanramachandran #Math #MyCV15OCT2023 #Jon .
Hi Bro, I view it as follows:
The answer to all three questions above is the same reason as to why I think God made “Faith” (i.e. believing without seeing in Christian definition, Hebrews 11:1) is basically to reward heaven. A logic can be seen as follows: because the ones with faith believed without seeing so they get the reward of heaven which we cannot see.
Next, under the assumption that non-Elect salvation possibility is true (as per writings of church fathers with and without the chiliasm timeline), then this “believing after seeing” non-elect salvation amounts to at most a reward of being saved on the final new earth. This is logical in a way because we have seen the current earth and so it gives a mirror of receiving only the “seen” thing (earth namely) and cannot inherit heaven because they did not believe in the heaven which they could “not” see whilst living on earth earlier. As to whether some can visit heaven through the gates of that final lowest heavenly city which connects to the final new earth (as Revelation 21 describes), those could be the best among non-elect salvation ones or mixed with fallen Christian ones who did not complete their course of faith perfectly.
As you can see, it does not contradict the Christian view of “believing in Christ” is necessary for Salvation and is a Free Gift but at the same time “heaven vs earth” which implies “heavenly vs earthly final resurrection body glories” difference mentioned in Scripture seems to match this chiliasm timeline position well as the “reward” part which is based on “one’s own fruit of actions” (and God does NOT dictate it implying that “Free Will” is existent within this and so it’s NOT a robotic creation or loyalty meaning loyalty to God is “REAL” but rewarded according to the varying degrees of His Commands Obeyed).
Thank you for your query.
How is God Fair? Relative Measure in Free Will and God’s Will
In Bible Verses in image, God Wills that all of Jerusalem should listen to “His Prophets” but yet He does NOT force it and allows “Free Will”, a Verse Directly by Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ Himself! End of God’s Will vs Free Will Argument.
This means He is the Authour of Faith but there’s an element of Free Will which affects Gradation/Reward even be it saved into the Heavens vs only saved on the Final New Earth as discussed earlier as possible even to refer to “faith type of believing without seeing” (Hebrews 11:1, Elect Salvation) vs. “not-faith type but believing after seeing, John 6:35 – 40, non-elect salvation possibility” if Church Father Quotes regarding it from Chiliasm or non-Chiliasm too is true (not doctrine as no one can be sure 100% now if they are honest).
Why would God Hide His Existence until we die?
Because the AIM of FAITH is ELECT SALVATION and REWARD
Please notice the word “REWARD” carefully in Bible Verse below defining this SAME MEANING as to WHY GOD MADE FAITH and that REWARD refers to ELECT SALVATION HEAVENLY INHERITANCE as “the better resurrection” when both Verses below combined clearly means “as it is Written”. Peace to you
Beautiful #Chiliasm #Prophecies regarding #nowar in the 1000 years #Millennial #Reign of #Christ after the #SecondComingofChrist . Both #PROPHETS #Isaiah and #Micah Prophesied similarly these aspects. Only the #RealMessiah Most Blessed #LordJesusChrist can make #all remaining #nations on the #earth at that time to #repent #beautifully like this as #He #Settles their disputes while the #FakeMessiah the #Beast or #Antichrist will #kill and #War to achieve his goals and #pretend to do it for #Israel even #deceiving them as well. Peace to you.
CHARITY DOCTRINE and its link to Elect Salvation as the Church
– CHRIST explained it in a PARABLE, St. Ireneaous of Lyons Reveals
Part 1 – Charity Doctrine needed because “no” business money nor inherited property or money from parents even in the world is clean unless you were paid lesser or is the “used” one beyond pay value meaning even in work celebrated as “hardworking etc.”, these are greatest “constant daily sin” [I have partially quoted details from this chapter in Pages 161-162
onward of the #ChiliasmBook]
“… For from what source do we derive the houses in which we dwell, the garments in which we are clothed, the vessels which we use, and everything else ministering to our every-day life, unless it be from those things which, when we were Gentiles, we acquired by avarice, or received them from our heathen parents, relations, or friends who unrighteously obtained them?— not to mention that even now we acquire such things when we are in the faith. For who is there that sells, and does not wish to make a profit from him who buys? Or who purchases anything, and does not wish to obtain good value from the seller? Or who is there that carries on a trade, and does not do so that he may obtain a livelihood thereby? And as to those believing ones who are in the royal palace, do they not derive the utensils they employ from the property which belongs to Cæsar; and to those who have not, does not each one of these [Christians] give according to his ability? … while, in fact, by receiving only a very insignificant recompense for their heavy servitude, they went away poor? It is just as if any free man, being forcibly carried away by another, and serving him for many years, and increasing his substance, should be thought, when he ultimately obtains some support, to possess some small portion of his [master’s] property, but should in reality depart, having obtained only a little as the result of his own great labours, and out of vast possessions which have been acquired, and this should be made by any one a subject of accusation against him, as if he had not acted properly. He (the accuser) will rather appear as an unjust judge against him who had been forcibly carried away into slavery. Of this kind, then, are these men also, who charge the people with blame, because they appropriated a few things out of many, but who bring no charge against those who did not render them the recompense due to their fathers’ services; nay, but even reducing them to the most irksome slavery, obtained the highest profit from them. ” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church, First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Against Heresies (Book IV, Chapter 30, Points 1, 2 selected)) Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103430.htm
TQ
#Charity #CharityDoctrine #Alms #Sanctification #JudgmentofSins #Context #GodsWill for #Finance #WorstSin is #Money related as #CHRIST Taught and #Ireneus #ChurchFathers #revealed .
CHARITY DOCTRINE and its link to Elect Salvation as the Church
– CHRIST explained it in a PARABLE, St. Ireneaous of Lyons Reveals
Part 2 – Living like “MONK” type of CHRISTIANITY and then thinking they are “holier” does NOT work if the “monks” are receiving “food + sustenance” out of “money donated/given from working people” – implying monk type of Christianity is good only if MONKS WORK and LIVE out CHARITY DOCTRINE too (implied intrinsically in his quote next)
[I have partially quoted details from this chapter in Pages 161-162 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]
St. Ireneaous of Lyons (not me) quotes Matthew 7:1 – 5 in quote next for this CONTEXT that THOSE WITHOUT CHARITY DOCTRINE are in GREATER SIN even if LIVING HOLY LIKE a MONK
“… Therefore, against men of this kind (namely, the heretics) the word of the Lord applies, which says: You hypocrite, first cast the beam out of your eye, and then shall you see clearly to pull out the mote out of your brother’s eye. Matthew 7:5 For if he who lays these things to your charge, and glories in his own wisdom, has been separated from the company of the Gentiles, and possesses nothing [derived from] other people’s goods, but is literally naked, and barefoot, and dwells homeless among the mountains, as any of those animals do which feed on grass, he will stand excused [in using such language], as being ignorant of the necessities of our mode of life. But if he do partake of what, in the opinion of men, is the property of others, and if [at the same time] he runs down their type, he proves himself most unjust, turning this kind of accusation against himself. For he will be found carrying about property not belonging to him, and coveting goods which are not his. And therefore has the Lord said: Judge not, that you be not judged: for with what judgment you shall judge, you shall be judged. Matthew 7:1-2 [The meaning is] not certainly that we should not find fault with sinners, nor that we should consent to those who act wickedly; but that we should not pronounce an unfair judgment on the dispensations of God, inasmuch as He has Himself made provision that all things shall turn out for good, in a way consistent with justice. For, because He knew that we would make a good use of our substance which we should possess by receiving it from another, He says, He that has two coats, let him impart to him that has none; and he that has meat, let him do likewise. Luke 3:11 And, For I was an hungered, and you gave Me meat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was naked and you clothed Me. Matthew 25:35-36 And, When you do your alms, let not your left hand know what your right hand does. Matthew 6:3 And we are proved to be righteous by whatsoever else we do well, redeeming, as it were, our property from strange hands. …”– Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church, First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Against Heresies (Book IV, Chapter 30, Point 3 selected)) Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103430.htm
TQ
CHARITY DOCTRINE and its link to Elect Salvation as the Church – CHRIST explained it in a PARABLE, St. Ireneaous of Lyons Reveals
Part 3 – There is NO such thing as a “CHURCH” (Elect Salvation) WITHOUT CHARITY DOCTRINE as this is PROPHESIED in SCRIPTURE even in ISRAEL’s EXODUS from EGYPT as a TYPE likewise and each CHRISTIAN does it by “RELATIVE MEASURE” of “his ABILITY”
[I have partially quoted details from this chapter in Pages 161-162 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]
Again, St. Ireneaous of Lyons (not me) teaches this clearly while discussing this “same chapter” (so “same context”) Why Charity Doctrine as “Judgment of Sins” part
“… ; and to those who have not, does not each one of these [Christians] give according to his ability? … while, in fact, by receiving only a very insignificant recompense for their heavy servitude, they went away poor? … For, because He knew that we would make a good use of our substance which we should possess by receiving it from another, He says, He that has two coats, let him impart to him that has none; and he that has meat, let him do likewise. Luke 3:11 And, For I was an hungered, and you gave Me meat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was naked and you clothed Me. Matthew 25:35-36 And, When you do your alms, let not your left hand know what your right hand does. Matthew 6:3 And we are proved to be righteous by whatsoever else we do well, redeeming, as it were, our property from strange hands. But thus do I say, from strange hands, not as if the world were not God’s possession, but that we have gifts of this sort, and receive them from others, in the same way as these men had them from the Egyptians who knew not God; and by means of these same do we erect in ourselves the tabernacle of God: for God dwells in those who act uprightly, as the Lord says: Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness, that they, when you shall be put to flight, may receive you into eternal tabernacles. Luke 16:9 For whatsoever we acquired from unrighteousness when we were heathen, we are proved righteous, when we have become believers, by applying it to the Lord’s advantage.
…” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church, First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD, Against Heresies (Book IV, Chapter 30, Points 1 to 4 selected)) Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103430.htm
TQ
Here I am listing “Chiliasm Prophecy Bible Verses” whose interpretation and chronology I think that St. Ireneaous of Lyons and St. Justin of Rome (Justin Martyr) have preserved the most accurate interpretation as detailed out in these free pdf books in links below (and whether I am reading them right is open to debate, fair, right?)
i) New Book Titled Last Book – Possibilities and Dangers of Doctrine Free PDF download link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wjDRr6lzDQ-4D60J8sqmDH-S60tCqQIR/view?usp=sharing
#LastBook or #PODBook or #PossibilitiesandDangersofDoctrineBook
ii) #chiliasmbook
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IzLcp1E-YoDtpAGY9qfnLeCL7ojc6-nj/view?usp=sharing
TQ
Notice the “#Love of the #LORD” consistent with “#Justice” where “He Strikes #EGYPT due to the evil they did to others first” and then in the “#Chiliasm Timeline” (or 1000 years Millennial Reign of Christ after the “Second Coming of Christ”) HE HIMSELF #HEALS those WILLING to “#REPENT” (“turn to the LORD”, “believing AFTER SEEING cases” so #NONELECTSALVATION #POSSIBILITY as even the “#MARRIAGE of the #LAMB with #CHRISTIANS, #RESURRECTED and #POSTTRIBULATIONRAPTURE at that time would have BEGUN as per CHILIASM #Prophecy by #ChurchFathers as detailed out in books in comment in links”). Peace to you
TQ
How are these quoted Bible Verses linked? Please notice the word “Highway” or “Way” or “Highway of Holiness” carefully in Isaiah 19:23, Isaiah 35:8 and Isaiah 11:16 and other Verses in those chapters are quoted to show further proof of CHILIASM PROPHECY TIMELINE.
The #Mysterious “#Highway of #Holiness” which leads to #Jerusalem AFTER the SECOND COMING of CHRIST in #CHILIASM Timeline for #POSSIBLE NON-ELECT SALVATION because the “#Marriage of the Lamb with His Bride or #ElectSalvation has happened at that time” and this is for remaining “#mortals/#sinners” on #earth.
Example Verses below which proves that this
happens during the 1000 years #Millennial Reign of #Christ for #EGYPT/#ASSYRIA
will NOT #repent in this timeline, the lame/blind etc. are not healed so freely
yet, #Ephraim etc. will not fight/envy #Israel anymore only in that time, #GOD
ONLY GATHERS HIS #OUTCASTS of ISRAEL, the #REMNANT MORTALS at THAT TIME (not
now, as #Antichrist will do a fake Version first before deceiving them to kill,
war etc. under that excuse as #ChurchFathers such as Saints #IreneusofLyons
& #HippolytusofRome quotes CHRIST’s Parable in Luke 18:1 – 8 to mean that
as shown in #LastBook and #ChiliasmBook – the “#Fake happens before the
#Real“).
More related details in FREE PDF Download
for both the #LastBook and #ChiliasmBook which can be found in #PINNED #POST on
my #Facebook wall or on #website
www.AnonymousChristian.org
TQ and Peace to you
The “#Highway to #Holiness” literally is a “#road” which leads to #Jerusalem at that time “in that #DAY” (referring to #7thDay, True #Sabbath, #1000years #Millennial #ReignofChrist) in Isaiah 19:23, Isaiah 35:8 and Isaiah 11:16 . They will #learn about #God Directly in #Jerusalem during the Millennial Reign by literally going there as these #Bible #Verses describe “as it is Written” and done by Most #Blessed #Messiah #KING #LORD #JESUS #CHRIST.
Please notice that in each Verse here a “literal road/highway” is mentioned on “that DAY” (not now). Notice that “in that #DAY” is 2nd Coming of Christ onward as “His Feet” literally touches #Earth in Zechariah 14:4. Peace to you.
#Spiritually #Sick is not necessarily #Spiritually #Dead . #Accuracy of #Holy #Scripture is a #Majesty to #Ponder and may #God have #Mercy on our #Errors.
#Secrets from the #Parable of the #Good #Samaritan by Most Blessed #LORD #JESUS CHRIST – #Revisited
Example [in Pages 3, 9, 170 onward of the #ChiliasmBook for discussion & possibilities]
This is the# REAL #WWJD (What Would Jesus Do?) taught by HIS OWN WORDS #CONCLUSION: LORD JESUS CHRIST Taught that #LOVING #GOD and #LOVING #OTHERS is #CHARITY #DOCTRINE in the PARABLE of the GOOD SAMARITAN. Please notice carefully that the #CONTEXT in MATTHEW 13:11 – 13 below is #KNOWLEDGE/NOT THINGS (“Secret”). #CharityDoctrine by #CHRIST #MYSTERY #WHY.
#Gems from Holy #Scripture – Topic of “#LOVE” (What Traits of Love does Scripture #Praise?)
Self Examination: In this life, have we really lived a #LIFE of LOVE?
1) #CHARITY #DOCTRINE type of love your neighbour as yourself (beyond #family even if can)
This “Human Love” was called greatest by Blessed KING DAVID, the only MAN written in SCRIPTURE as AFTER GOD’s HEART & the Greatest and most honourable HUMAN KING #ISRAEL ever had (excluding #CHRIST) despite king DAVID’s adultery and murder which he repented eventually
Do you know why? The BIBLE Reveals that women wanted to marry king #David so that they can live in palaces (“easy life with wealth”) and that’s why Bathsheba herself went into the palace to commit adultery and never resisted despite being married while on the other hand, Blessed Jonathan (first prince of Israel) did NOT get jealous that KING DAVID (his best friend) was to be KING and “not” him as per GOD’s COMMAND and even helped David and shared everything he had with him as Scripture Records (Charity Doctrine #lifestyle beyond family & even for what is right even!).
2) Everything in the BIBLE is about CHRIST (the “types” or “#allegory” such as this LOVE between David & Jonathan itself earlier). Other Verses Reveal MOST BLESSED LORD JESUS CHRIST’s LOVE even further and BEYOND! Examples in image. GREATEST LOVE is #OBEDIENCE (John 15:13 – 15). This GREATEST LOVE is NOT achieved when you “#kill your enemies” (because you are ‘saving yourself’) but when you #OBEY CHRIST’s COMMAND to LOVE even YOUR #ENEMIES as HE DID FIRST, then it’s the “GREATEST LOVE” (i.e. CHRIST Taught to LOVE #believers, #family to #enemy too, e.g. in Matthew 5, Luke 6 – the “#narrow path”) [From Page 275 onward of the #LastBook], LOVE is measured by HOW WE #SPEND or KEEP to #GIVE AWAY our #MONEY/ #POSSESSIONS as CHRIST TEACHES here even toward enemies in Luke 6:32 – 34. Peace to you
The #BIBLE teaches that ALL sin is #not the same.
There are #big sins versus #small sins. In this post, I wish to show BIBLE #VERSES which teaches these particular #aspects which are “#rarely #known”
1) #SINNING when having #PROSPERITY and NO #CHARITY #DOCTRINE awaits #WORST #JUDGMENT
2) NOT all sin lead to #death but the Bible does not detail it out further (#mystery)
3) Sinning against “men #more #righteous” (for example #ChurchFathers) or the #Uriah type below (2 Samuel 11:11 which describes him as so #obedient to God that he doesn’t even easily #spend his #time/#money in enjoyment even if he #can just because others are #suffering – “#Renunciation Doctrine” which #Christ taught in Luke 14:33); some of these affects #heavenly #gradation (Matthew 5:19) while some #never #enter #heaven (Matthew 5:20) so probably saved on final new earth only (Revelation 21:24, 27 etc.) and so these are #IMPORTANT #DOCTRINES! #Principles of #righteousness/#Judgment remains same in #NewTestament too. Peace to you
Question 1
One question in relation to your comments; When a man or woman gets a Masters, PHD or Seminary degree, where does that come from, Father 𐤉𐤄𐤅𐤄, ha’Mashiaḥ 𐤉𐤄𐤅𐤔𐤏 or man? This reveals the truth of the matter in such cases.
Reply 1
Human will is involved as well. For example, there are many PHDs opposing Torah’s 613 commandments but only selecting 10 commandments (plus tithes etc for Gentiles) while I believe in 9 Commandments (no tithes but New Testament Traditions, which is Church Fathers position in common except Roman Catholics and Orthodox Add non written Traditions which cannot be proven so I do not keep it). So are all these contradictory PHD’s even within theology by God? How much more other fields? A lot of opinion type and man made fields plus the fact some knowledge came from the fallen angels (as Book of 1Enoch records and alluded to in Church Fathers writings and some Bible Verses) prove that it’s mixed. Only God can filter it but I present the evidence using mostly Chiliasm Church Fathers’ Writings.
Question 2
Here is another question; This one called as “St. Athanasius the Great” in whom participated in the Council of Nicea AD 325, and with those present, rejected several books that were included in the Septuagint in order to present a “canonized” Scriptures, is this one that should be trusted?
Reply 2
I will put it like this: Even the Roman Catholics consider the Septuagint fully inspired and so they don’t take say St. Athanasius rejection of certain books as valid. My point is not that. Did you notice that from the first/oldest Muratorian Canon (Roman Canon) considered “Shepherd of Hermas” as “True” (but cannot be numbered among NT nor OT books level only) as it is to be kept “secret” (not read publicly in church) while both St. Irenaeous of Lyons and Blessed Tertullian with Blessed Pope St. Callixtus I (Bishop of Rome) at that time even approves “Shepherd of Hermas” as “Scripture” endorsing it at that level. So St. Athanasius getting this “part right” is substantiated by his quote of approval of “Shepherd of Hermas” likewise. If he erred on other parts, it does “not” mean he erred on this part, can you see it? Can you show how say St. Irenaeous of Lyons is “unreliable” by say rejecting any books you think should be in canon (I follow more of CHILIASM Church Fathers like St. Ireneaous of Lyons who do “not” have such errors where if you say otherwise, please show me where with source? Please do a “control F” to “find” any names or keywords in my free books to see these parts with quote and source)
Question 3
Strange… I can’t find the word “trinity” anywhere in the Scriptures.
Reply 3
The word TRINITY is to explain what GOD Kept as Secret and only Revealed it through Lord Jesus Christ Onward, example [in Page 422 onward of the #DialoguesBook] using Isaiah 48:16 even from the OT. Notice also in the Baptism of CHRIST All Three Persons of the HOLY TRINITY were present at the same time, The FATHER Who Spoke from HEAVEN, the HOLY SPIRIT descending in a form like a DOVE and Lord JESUS CHRIST in FLESH).
Peace to you
The #BIBLE Verses listed in images below (not me) Reveal how we are to be #REAL in #LIFE
1) A #Friend loves at #all times (#Proverbs 17:17)
[Example: Whether one missed to call them for a year or even years, when they meet, it’s always like one just met up yesterday because “both” missed “meeting or calling” each other for that “year” or “years” but it did “not” affect their “#true friendship” at all]
2) A friend may not be there at all times, but it’s best to show up to “#help” (“#CharityDoctrine”) when a person is in need Proverbs 27:10 and can be shown even to ‘family members of friends’,
2 Samuel 21:7)
3) #Wealth and #Riches usually makes “#fake friendship” which will #vanish if that person becomes “#poor” (and not seen if the person ‘remains rich’, Proverbs 14:20) unless it was true friendship regardless of money. Some people even #discriminate friendships/family on basis of “high class vs low class” based on “#race, #caste, #salary-level etc.” (Proverbs 19:7) which is all #damnable to #hell for “not” loving others as oneself (Luke 16:24 – 25).
4) Most #people think that “being rich means #closest to God” while #GOD clearly has warned in #Scripture that they are “#theologically #wrong” but yet he never “removed their #prosperity” (Jeremiah 22:21) because that’s #not how GOD #Works (so GOD #cannot be #predicted by #anyone). Peace to you
Bravo! I love this! Wish other countries will share their solutions for “free” like this too. Also if local universities and lecturers also present some problems/discussions like this for the general public, what a knowledge sharing explosion it would be (not just in math) and not just sharing to one’s own race only but accessible to all (notice this former great Math olympian is not earning from it in any way, is not sharing some “easy” problems & overly paid for it such as typical school math and also is not getting a “pensionable job” or any other “secure” position before doing it. No point in being smart (if say able to do some of these questions) whether in Math or other field but live selfishly for oneself (or for one’s own race or religion if it only teaches to do good to only those within it), right? Sincerely a Good Work at Biblical standards (where this is a great example of “Charity Doctrine” in “Education”). Thank you! Link (for IMONST2 2023 “Senior” level solutions):
https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=watch_permalink&v=739697031343312
https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=watch_permalink&v=739697031343312
or
https://fb.watch/oqt640Li5M/
TQ
#CharityDoctrine Explanation – #Holy #Scripture and #Logic
1) Firstly, obeying God in #FINANCE aspect is more important than #Sacrifice (attending #church, #praying, #tithes, #worship etc.) as various #prophets from #OldTestament and #CHRIST HIMSELF asked in Luke 11:39 – 41, Luke 10:25 – 37 & Matthew 25:31 – 46 and I have quoted in my books with “#Bible #Verses” and GOD’s WILL for FINANCE in #NEWTESTAMENT is NOT “#prosperity for family & self” but #CHARITY #DOCTRINE of SELL ALL & GIVE to #POOR (#Possessions, #skills, knowledge #spiritual or #secular, #money) but being imperfect we just give a “small” portion of what we have and its reward is NOT measured based on “amount” but by “#relative#measure” as POOR WIDOW’s 2 coins GAVE more than RICH who fed many as CHRIST HIMSELF TAUGHT (in Luke 21:1 – 3) as I have discussed in free pdf books prior (please read carefully).
2) Some people think that CHARITY DOCTRINE will sabotage the “livelihood” of others. CHARITY DOCTRINE is for the needy NOT rich. If a person has money to pay for MATH OLYMPIAD CLASSES, they should take paid classes especially from those who fulfill CHRIST’s FINANCE CHARITY DOCTRINE WILL in any little way, right? (even CHURCHES should run such FREE CLASSES [for any subject spiritual or secular] as CHRIST COMMANDED it). Instead of financially supporting those who do it in any little way, you support “businesses” which make use of “people with no racial advantage or nepotism” who say “make money out of math Olympiad” as businessman (but they themselves cannot do math Olympiad as private sector shows), is it fair?
3) Better to support individual Math Olympiad coaches who we actually former Math Olympians, right? So if you did “not” care about this type of fairness & support your race or support churches which run “no” charity doctrine programmes for the “poor” but have homeschools for the rich, what moral compass do we even have to argue about here? The RICH who take advantage of CHARITY DOCTRINE classes IF they CAN PAY for it are DEFINITELY GOING to HELL as CHRIST TAUGHT in the PARABLE of the RICH MAN and LAZARUS (Luke 16:19 – 31 with that REASON GIVEN in Luke 16:24 – 25), FAIR, RIGHT?
Peace to you
Why #Preach #HARSHLY against those who #OPPOSE #CHARITYDOCTRINE?
If you think I preached “harshly”, check out these #BIBLE #VERSES on #CHARITY #DOCTRINE (1 John 3:16 – 18) which PREACH a PERSON STRAIGHT to #ETERNAL #HELL even if LACKING in CHARITY DOCTRINE (Luke 16:24 – 25, Matthew 25:41 – 46).
On #Judgment #Day #God judges based on “Charity Doctrine” that one did “not” do also (Matthew 25:31 – 46). When one falls and breaks a #commandment, he falls once but without charity doctrine, one #sins #daily.
The #REASON is simple: You CANNOT speak #SOFTLY AGAINST #CRUELTY and LACK of CHARITY DOCTRINE is CRUELTY as #SODOM’s SIN was that too (Ezekiel 16:49). So if we #FOLLOW #CHRIST and the BIBLE, we should PREACH HARSHLY likewise, right?
Even toward #ENEMIES, CHARITY DOCTRINE is to be Practiced (Luke 6:27 – 36)and NOT #kill your enemies but #LOVE YOUR ENEMIES to #OVERCOME #EVIL with #GOOD (Romans 12:21); Lord Jesus Christ’s Standards are NOT high but #PERFECT and that’s why the #HIGHEST COMMAND to LOVE is CHARITY DOCTRINE to #BELIEVERS, #FAMILY, #NEIGHBOURS, #STRANGERS and #ENEMIES too.
If anyone thinks their “#philosophy” is greater, then may their “#income /#money / #possessions /#skills” shared for #FREE reach others to #enemies too. #Peace to you
Unparalleled #Musical #Wisdom – #King #Solomon’s Greatest #Song was about #LORD #JESUS #CHRIST and HIS #BRIDE (the #CHURCH #allegorically) which is the “#Eternal #Song”.
The “#Eternal #Song” for “#CHRIST” by #King #Solomon Reveals #CHARITYDOCTRINE as Greatest #Love
Personally I think in his Greatest Song, King Solomon was allegorically writing about the “CHARITY DOCTRINE LOVE of #GOD” (#Agape) which “some” in the “#CHURCH” (His #Bride allegorically) would fulfill as these Verses are linked by #GIVE #ALL the #POSSESSIONS in his #HOUSE (#money, #skill, #knowledge, etc.) for #FREE by “#RelativeMeasure” as Christ Revealed that even though the rich’s money fed many as opposed to the poor widow’s 2 coins, she gave more in (Luke 21:1 – 3) as many #ChurchFathers (including St. #Irenaeusof Lyons too have testified this part and pointed to “not” giving #low-#quality things for FREE but the #BEST one has too).
#Self #examination: By God’s Grace, have we really lived a #life of #love like this in any “#little” way since God’s Command to “SELL ALL (not some) and GIVE to the POOR” level is Revealed by the HIGHEST WISDOM of LORD JESUS CHRIST here? Please notice the “Sell/Leave HOUSE” or “Wealth” to the “POOR” which links Songs 8:7 to CHRIST’s Matthew 19:29, Matthew 19:21 and Mark 10:21. CHRIST Revealed that the “#CHRISTLIKE HEART” is to GIVE to CHARITY while “#Prosperity heart” (the #opposite) is NOT like CHRIST, implied in Luke 12:33 – 34. Peace to you
Sources:
https://nonprofitssource.com/online-giving-statistics/church-giving/
and
https://pushpay.com/blog/church-giving-statistics/
TQ
Problem: 6.3 million KWSP account holders with age less than 55 years old have less than RM 10000 in their accounts.
Link for article:
https://www.bernama.com/bm/am/news.php?id=2246257
Two ways of looking at this:
1) The lower income group did not work hard enough even though daily working
2) They worked for lower pay and so EPF amounts never became big as capitalism businesses generally don’t share “profits” willingly but pay low in “relative measure”.
Conclusion – Economy which matters in real life in Biblical Charity Doctrine Context is to improve on Point 2 above “willingly” only can “help the poor” toward the “workers who made you rich” and “God Will be pleased”. Also James 5:3 – 4 seems to point to “HELL FIRE” for the “RICH” who “HOARD MONEY” in these “LAST DAYS” (New Testament times) if NO Charity Doctrine (implied) & if NOT paying workers the pay-rate you will pay yourself if you were born of those ‘unfortunate race’ (implied). Peace to you
This famous Protestant Website preaches the same as me in essence (what a nice coincidence) in regard to James 5:1 – 4 in an earlier post, link:
https://bible.org/seriespage/19-stewarding-finances-god-s-way-james-51-6
Peace to you
More “#Harsh” #Preaching on the #TOPIC of #MONEY?
Even Blessed #MartinLuther, First #Champion of the #Protestant Faith, #Founder of the #Lutheran Churches himself wrote the famous quote below where if one is converted in regard to his “#purse” or “money” implying #financial giving to fulfill #NewTestament #CHARITYDOCTRINE #COMMANDS, one is NOT #converted at all (more quotes are added in link below too, quoting Martin Luther on this part and others as well); so if all of them agreed on this TOPIC of MONEY (#ChurchFathers are also full of #CHARITY #DOCTRINE quotes as my free pdf books shows), it should be right, right?
Martin Luther taught deeper that the Parable of the 5 #Wise vs 5 #Foolish Virgins linked to CHARITY DOCTRINE too as quoted in #free #pdf [in Page 27 onward of the #DoctrineBook],
Source for Puritan Website for this:
https://www.apuritansmind.com/stewardship/longquotesonwealth/
Peace to you
Question
Where do you think the name Jesus comes from? Jesu .it’s..sounds some similarity? Voilent evil spirit possesed man recognized Yahu’sha later asked to enter pigs JE… earth…SUS…pig…later ended up rushing down cliff to destruction.Broad and wide is the road to destruction and many walked in it but small and narrow is the path that leads to life and only a few find it
Replies
That’s a silly argument as these languages are referring to their own deities. Nothing to do with the name Jesus or even Ieousous in Greek which is still NOT yeshua or Yahashua but is approved in Greek New Testament (which you haven’t refuted and simply talking about non-Christian religions, unrelated. So fallacious).
You see the dictionary is doing lexigraphy which is rubbish. Let me give you an example: take the English word “hotdog”; then that dictionary’s equivalent is saying that the animal “hotdog” got its name because it has something to do with “dog” where that’s NOT true at all. So linking “Greek phonetics” like that created such a ‘false teaching’ which you are believing. The Original Koine Greek Bible uses that same “Greek Phonetic” to call Christ “Ieousous” regardless if “Sus” meant “pig”, can you see it? Lexigraphy is only useful if like in Hebrew God Intended such breakdown of meaning of His Name. We cannot apply it to any language and claim something wrong about Christ. Simple as that.
Also in Acts 19:15, indeed the violent spirit recognized CHRIST’s NAME as RECORDED in GREEK as “Iesous” and NOT “Yeshua or Yahashua” as Written in ORIGINAL KOINE GREEK BIBLE (image below).
Peace to you
[Text] – Question
Your understanding of this verse is backwards, this is is talking to the ones who do keep the Seventh Day Sabbath. Rome wants you to keep it on Sunday, and the Apostle Kefas (Peter) is saying to those who keep the Sabbath on the Seventh Day Sabbath. “”””So let no one JUDGE YOU for keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath””””
So bottom line is if you do not keep the Seventh Day Sabbath you’re breaking His Law. (1John 3:4) says you’re a un-repented sinner
Replies
Let no one judge you for “sabbath” and “food (say pork)”.
Three possibilities:
1) Must keep sabbath —> implies by same usage toward “pork” so Gentiles cannot eat pork (which contradicts other Verses such as Acts 10:15, 1 Timothy 4:3. So your position is a “contradiction” so cannot be true.
2) Must “not” keep sabbath —> implies by same usage toward “pork” so Gentiles can eat pork since the OT prohibition to “not” eat pork does “not” apply to them (which “agrees” other Verses such as Acts 10:15, 1 Timothy 4:3. So this position is a “possibility” so can be true).
3) Keeping or “not” keeping Sabbath is allowed as a choice for Gentiles —> implies by same usage toward “pork” so Gentiles can choose to eat pork or not (which “agrees” other Verses such as Acts 10:15, 1 Timothy 4:3. So this position is a “possibility” so can be true also).
So both positions 2) and 3) allows Gentiles to “not” keep Sabbath and eat pork. The AUGSBURG Confession by the FIRST PROTESTANT FATHERS agree more toward position 2) as I have shown with proof quotes in [Pages 171/172 onward of the #DoctrineBook]]. Personally I think position 3) is most accurate since it agrees with another Verse namely Romans 14:4 – 9 (described in [From Page 179 onward of the #DoctrineBook]). Now, handling the LAW and PROPHETS more accurately (in Matthew 5:17 – 20) merits higher gradation while getting “persecuted” say by your “local pastor or denomination or church which upholds sabbath for gentiles as a ‘must’ without which say they cannot allow you to serve in music ministry at Church’ then if they are right, they will get greater reward but if they are wrong (since they discriminated Christians like me or all Protestant Founders & Church Fathers who are either on position 2) or 3) only on that basis), by same judgment meted back (Matthew 7:1 – 3), they will likewise have their “music ministry unrecognized” by God (as per principle of warning in 1 Corinthians 14:38 too). So let GOD DECIDE who was “persecuted for righteousness” in this “Sabbath-Topic” (and He Will judge for every other topic likewise so we need to be careful & study the Bible with CHURCH HISTORY too) and the CHRISTIAN who gets it “RIGHT” MERITS GREATER REWARD as CHRIST DECLARED below:
“… 11Blessed are you when they REVILE and PERSECUTE you, and say ALL KINDS of EVIL against you FALSELY for MYS SAKE. 12Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for GREAT is your REWARDS in HEAVEN , for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. ..” – Most Blessed LORD JESUS CHRIST (Matthew 5:12, NKJV)
Also according to you, even “Martin Luther” (First Protestant is an “unsaved sinner” based on your quote on 1 John 3:4 because he seemed to be closer to position 2) described above:
[From Page 50 onward of the #DoctrineBook]
“… Thus I keep the commandments which Moses has given, not because Moses gave the commandment, but because they have been implanted in me by nature, and Moses agrees exactly with nature, etc. TITHING: But the other commandments of Moses, which are not [implanted in all men] by nature, the Gentiles do not hold. Nor do these pertain to the Gentiles, such as the TITHE and others equally fine which I wish we had too. Now this is the first thing that I ought to see in Moses, namely, the commandments to which I am not bound except insofar as they are [implanted in everyone] by nature [and written in everyone’s heart]. … SABBATH: Again one can prove it from the third commandment that Moses does not pertain to Gentiles and Christians. For Paul [Col. 2:16] and the New Testament [Matt. 12:1-12; John 5:16; 7:22-23; 9:14-16] abolish the Sabbath, to show us that the Sabbath was given to the Jews alone, for whom it is a stern commandment. …” Blessed Martin Luther, The First Champion of the Protestant Faith, (LUTHER, MARTIN; August 27, 1525, HOW CHRISTIANS SHOULD REGARD MOSES) Example Sources (same content no matter which is quoted):
http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/id78.html
or
https://lutherancatechism.com/doc-lib/voelz_j_luthers_use_of_scripture_in_the_small_catechism.pdf
or
http://www.wordofhisgrace.org/LutherMoses.htm
About the letters non-existent etc., it does not matter the phonetics of “Ieousous” in KOINE GREEK ORIGINAL BIBLE since for example book of ACTS is Written entirely in GREEK & NOT translated from Aramaic NOR Hebrew like some propose for Matthew and so “Ieousous” is still NOT same as “Yeshua or Yahashua” meaning God allowed phonetic variation and eventually letter J in English fit it best, so the NAME JESUS okay and if you call HIM YESHUA or YAHSHUA etc., it’s okay too.
Peace to you
Even St. Augustine of Hippo considered the Septuagint and its Apocrypha books such as Tobit etc. as “Scripture” & Maccabees mentioned here (in image) has both “Charity Doctrine for Judgment of Sins as well as Purgatory Quote” and I have discussed this “possibility” in regard to “Lord Jesus Christ Himself celebrating this non-canonical “Hanukkah” which was due to this same “Maccabees” [From Pages 34 onward of the #DialoguesBook]. Only God knows who is right or more accurate. Peace to you
[Text for Reply] Even the #Orthodox and #Catholics don’t agree and some think the other is damned (so this proves “#human #choices”). Best is, “#Chiliasm” was taught by all #earliest and #greatest fathers of the church (details vary so can be #debated) but “chiliasm timeline is #same” such as St. #Irenaeus of Lyons, #Tertullian, St, #Ambrose of Milan (who converted & baptised non-Chiliasm popular leader St. #Augustine of Hippo), St. #Methodius of Olympus, St. #Victorinus, St. #Papias, St. #Justin of Rome (St. #JustinMartyr) which itself shows the #Roman Catholic church now is “not” the same as the ones held by these ones listed. Notice that St. Augustine of Hippo (who is later) #contradicts his “own converter/teacher/baptiser” Blessed Archbishop St. Ambrose of Milan where the latter clearly believes in CHILIASM and also has plenty of NON-ELECT SALVATION #POSSIBILITY quotes meaning “human will” is clearly present here for ‘what the #CHURCH chooses to believe’ but who is right LET #GOD DECIDE but it PROVES that CHILIASM position cannot be #condemned even if #wrong (please read my free pdfs to see proof quotes with ‘roman catholic sources’ itself – but what are the #chances the ones listed here especially St. Irenaeous of Lyons is wrong? So we need to tread carefully lest the “#judgment” we judge is meted back if we turned out “wrong” on some “#theological# topics”) as #CHRIST #Warned in Matthew 7:1 – 3. #Peace to you
Roman Catholicism has added a lot of things which were not there in the earliest Church Father’s writings such as “Praying to Virgin Mary etc,.” So reformers such as Blessed Martin Luther (First Protestant) and Blessed John Calvin did correct many theological errors. However, in the context of “Prophecy” and since it is not of any private interpretation, I still find the earliest Church Fathers (with no prayers to Virgin Mary etc.) majority of them believing in Chiliasm timeline. Now a consequence of that is there could be a “non-elect salvation” possibility which is even supported by “majority of non-chiliasm Church Father’s quotes of the Doctors of the Church type before 700 AD” as I have shown in my free pdfs which could mean that such a concept was there (except the term “non-elect salvation” was not coined) or they were all wrong on this part. So I try to supplement an explanation in my free pdfs how this could have been because the other parts of Justification by Faith etc. is already wonderfully done by the reformers except for the emphasis on Charity Doctrine Fruit which sometimes is less understood and so I emphasize on this part too to try fill in the gaps with Church Father quotes as well. The non-elect salvation part is a possibility not doctrine because no one can be 100% sure and so let God decide but I choose to present the “evidence” from “earliest” Church History honestly. Peace to you
Question
so then where did the real church go while everyone was praying to saints for next 1000 years?
Reply
Exactly, that’s a question I asked as well in my own book and the possibility I can think of is “God’s Mercy” either some saved with lower gradation (in Elect Salvation) and/or maybe non-Elect Salvation because St. Justin Martyr (St. Justin of Rome) from the “west” has an interesting quote which may point to this as follows where he says even the “Church” has been “Prophesied” to contain both “Elect (sons) vs non-Elect salvation (servants)” according to “rank and God’s Foreknowledge” ([From Page 66 onward of the #ChiliasmBook] & St. Gregory Nazianzus’ likewise has a similar quote from the “east” [in Page 67 onward of the #ChiliasmBook] which can agree with John 15:15 in Most Blessed Lord Jesus Christ’s Words regarding difference between “sons vs servant level salvation” (so with these “evidences”, please see images below, I view it as a “possibility”); Being “Chosen” by God seems to be linked to this “Topic” of “Servants vs Sons” as the next “consecutive Verse” (immediate context) reveals CHRIST DECLARING this in John 15:15 – 16.
Please also notice that “rank” seems to depend on “knowing” as per John 15:15 – 16 to become “sons” (not based on money/anything else) and both St. Justin of Rome and St. Gregory Nazianzus’ quotes seem to “know NON ELECT SALVATION” when they quoted this context of “sons vs servant” (please see other pages of the #ChiliasmBook to see this) – so we need to consider this possibility seriously, right? Peace to you
Why I do “not” Pray to Virgin Mary as Intercessor or as anything else?
Example evidence by a major Church Father (third from Apostle St. John and disciple of St. Polycarp) by St. Irenaeous of Lyons that the First Roman Catholic Church did “not” Pray to Angels and so in “similar logic” would “not” have “Prayed to Virgin Mary” either
[From Page 94 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]
“…For as she has received freely Matthew 10:8 from God, freely also does she minister [to others]. 5. Nor does she perform anything by means of angelic invocations, or by incantations, or by any other wicked curious art; but, directing her prayers to the Lord, who made all things, in a pure, sincere, and straightforward spirit, and calling upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, she has been accustomed to work miracles for the advantage of mankind, and not to lead them into error. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church,First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology, (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD , ‘Against Heresies’, (Book II, Chapter 32), Point 4, 5-partial)
Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103232.htm
Comment: I repeat: Chiliasm fathers are the oldest Church Father’s writing extending to the millennia just that the Roman Catholics skipped it and added new stuff. So I am the one trying to return to it and if you read St. Irenaeous of lyons when he mentioned about prayer, he wrote that the Church only prays to Lord Jesus Christ and NOT to angels even which already disproves your modern roman Catholic position of praying to angels as helpers or intercessors just like prayers to Virgin Mary under the same reasoning cannot be true either as I have shown in my free pdf books with roman Catholic Source even. It’s funny that St. Ireneaous of lyons (third from Apostle St. John and Disciple of St. Polycarp) when writing about prayer never mentioned it to be done via Virgin Mary but only Lord Jesus Christ. Also the fact that in the same breath he wrote that the Church does “not” pray “nor” invoke angels for “help or intercession or whatever else” (say in Page 94 of #ChiliasmBook ) proves that the original roman Catholic Church does not pray to angels as helpers nor as intercessors too and so this proves he definitely does not pray to Virgin Mary either as those who believe such do both and those who don’t do neither prayers to virgin Mary nor to angels. It should be clear to anyone reading this. A person can lie about history but no one can change history (one day God Will Reveal be it after death even)
Plenty of links in the internet from official Roman Catholic Websites give proof for their “prayers” to both “angels/Virgin Mary” (see below)
Sola Scriptura position is fully endorsed by 1 Corinthians 4:6. I repeat: You just confessed to “no” Scripture evidence which already proved your position false. Oral traditions are not a must and cannot verified to be true especially when for example prayers to virgin Mary are “not” found in any Church Fathers writing up to 3rd to 4th century. So your verbal tradition does “not” even need to be followed even for the right ones if it is “not Written” according to 1 Corinthians 4:6 which again disproves your position once and for all. NON-Praying to Virgin Mary FIRST ROMAN CATHOLICS were all believers of CHILIASM too according to St. Ireneaous of Lyons. Peace to you
The “Math of Eternity for Doctrinal Accuracy”
Example of a Refutation in support of Protestantism against Roman Catholic & Orthodox for the Topic of Prayers to Angels/Saint/Virgin_Mary
[Please remember that LOW QUALITY RESEARCH and LOW RIGOUROUS ARGUMENTS do NOT bring ‘glory to God’ but makes HIS MOST HOLY NAME PROFANED among the GENTILES, let’s begin; if not satisfied, please invite me to a debate in your local Catholic Church or Archbishop himself & let’s just debate “live” and you can decide who sounds “more accurate” – this is “not” a prideful statement because only a one WITH PRIDE wears a TITLE/POSITION but is UNABLE to PRODUCE ACCURACY even for THEIR OWN HISTORICAL QUOTES as evidenced by this OFFICIAL VATICAN DEFENSE on this topic – is this the “BEST” you can do with all those PHDS? – same warning applies to other denominations on “OTHER TOPICS” & me too “if we are wrong” unless “we admitted it as a POSSIBILITY but DID NOT make a DOCTRINE out of it in which CASE JUDGMENT is HIGHER as JAMES 3:1 WARNS! – example “non-Elect Salvation which I propose is a “possibility NOT doctrine” so even if wrong it never affects salvation of anyone]
Here I will give a further “Proper Classification” for the type of quotes done by Roman Catholic History (which also reveals their Research Ability) based on link below (imagine taking all the big salaries to positions with all PHDs done in this topic and producing this “level” of “accuracy”) – sorry to be sarcastic but it shows how if we are paid more etc. we should present more “honestly” & if cannot, how can one even be ordained to speak “more truths” if simple ones like this are NOT “honestly presented”?:
https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-intercession-of-the-saints
1) These quotes from the “Roman Catholic Source” itself only proves that Prayer is done from those alive on earth vs angels and saints on the spirit world side but NOT that we who are alive on earth pray to them (which is the ERROR of ROMAN CATHOLICS and ORTHODOX, let them pray in anyway they want by their own will & when you die & are saved means you can do it from there)
Hermas
“[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’” (The Shepherd 3:5:4 [A.D. 80]).
Clement of Alexandria
“In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]” (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]).
Origen
“But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep” (Prayer 11 [A.D. 233]).
Cyprian of Carthage
“Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy” (Letters 56[60]:5 [A.D. 253]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
“Then [during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition” (Catechetical Lectures 23:9 [A.D. 350]).
Hilary of Poitiers
“To those who wish to stand [in God’s grace], neither the guardianship of saints nor the defenses of angels are wanting” (Commentary on the Psalms 124:5:6 [A.D. 365]).
The Liturgy of St. Basil
“By the command of your only-begotten Son we communicate with the memory of your saints . . . by whose prayers and supplications have mercy upon us all, and deliver us for the sake of your holy name” (Liturgy of St. Basil [A.D. 373]).
Gregory of Nazianz
“Yes, I am well assured that [my father’s] intercession is of more avail now than was his instruction in former days, since he is closer to God, now that he has shaken off his bodily fetters, and freed his mind from the clay that obscured it, and holds conversation naked with the nakedness of the prime and purest mind” (ibid., 18:4).
John Chrysostom
“He that wears the purple [i.e., a royal man] . . . stands begging of the saints to be his patrons with God, and he that wears a diadem begs the tentmaker [Paul] and the fisherman [Peter] as patrons, even though they be dead” (Homilies on Second Corinthians 26 [A.D. 392]).
“When you perceive that God is chastening you, fly not to his enemies . . . but to his friends, the martyrs, the saints, and those who were pleasing to him, and who have great power [in God]” (Orations 8:6 [A.D. 396]).
Ambrose of Milan
“May Peter, who wept so efficaciously for himself, weep for us and turn towards us Christ’s benign countenance” (The Six Days Work 5:25:90 [A.D. 393]).
Jerome
“You say in your book that while we live we are able to pray for each other, but afterwards when we have died, the prayer of no person for another can be heard. . . . But if the apostles and martyrs while still in the body can pray for others, at a time when they ought still be solicitous about themselves, how much more will they do so after their crowns, victories, and triumphs?” (Against Vigilantius 6 [A.D. 406]).
Augustine
“A Christian people celebrates together in religious solemnity the memorials of the martyrs, both to encourage their being imitated and so that it can share in their merits and be aided by their prayers” (Against Faustus the Manichean [A.D. 400]).
“At the Lord’s table we do not commemorate martyrs in the same way that we do others who rest in peace so as to pray for them, but rather that they may pray for us that we may follow in their footsteps” (Homilies on John 84 [A.D. 416]).
“Neither are the souls of the pious dead separated from the Church which even now is the kingdom of Christ. Otherwise there would be no remembrance of them at the altar of God in the communication of the Body of Christ” (The City of God 20:9:2 [A.D. 419]).
2) These quotes from that “same Roman Catholic source” are the only evidence they have for prayers of “their type” which is “pray to saints/angels/Virgin Mary directly” (can you see how “less” such an “evidence” really is? There is much more evidence for NON-ELECT SALVATION “earlier in time” as well as “from CHURCH FATHERS” and NOT anonymous/unknown sources included – can you see the “difference” in “reliability” as well as “research ability too” since some quotes below are FALSELY attributed – read below both sides and decide for yourselves)?
i) Possibly historically true quotes but NOT from any CHILIASM CHURCH FATHER NOR ANY MAJOR CHURCH FATHERS and UNRELIABLE anonymous/unknown ones used:
Anonymous
“Atticus, sleep in peace, secure in your safety, and pray anxiously for our sins” (funerary inscription near St. Sabina’s in Rome [A.D. 300]).
“Pray for your parents, Matronata Matrona. She lived one year, fifty-two days” (ibid.).
“Mother of God, [listen to] my petitions; do not disregard us in adversity, but rescue us from danger” (Rylands Papyrus 3 [A.D. 350]).
”
Pectorius
“Aschandius, my father, dearly beloved of my heart, with my sweet mother and my brethren, remember your Pectorius in the peace of the Fish [Christ]” (Epitaph of Pectorius [A.D. 375]).
ii) The saints who actually prayed ROMAN CATHOLIC or ORTHODOX style today
Ephraim the Syrian
“You victorious martyrs who endured torments gladly for the sake of the God and Savior, you who have boldness of speech toward the Lord himself, you saints, intercede for us who are timid and sinful men, full of sloth, that the grace of Christ may come upon us, and enlighten the hearts of all of us so that we may love him” (Commentary on Mark [A.D. 370]).
“Remember me, you heirs of God, you brethren of Christ; supplicate the Savior earnestly for me, that I may be freed through Christ from him that fights against me day by day” (The Fear at the End of Life [A.D. 370]).
Gregory of Nyssa
“[Ephraim], you who are standing at the divine altar [in heaven] . . . bear us all in remembrance, petitioning for us the remission of sins, and the fruition of an everlasting kingdom” (Sermon on Ephraim the Syrian [A.D. 380]).
*Gregory of Nyssa also believed the “devil could be saved & was full universalist” so his quotes are “not” reliable.
Gregory of Nazianz
“May you [Cyprian] look down from above propitiously upon us, and guide our word and life; and shepherd this sacred flock . . . gladden the Holy Trinity, before which you stand” (Orations 17[24] [A.D. 380]).
*Notice that St. Gregory Nazianzus’ quote above can also mean “part of a speech” rather than “prayer to Cyprian” but regardless it proves he can be in error (please see “conclusion” at the end of this writing with St. Ireneaous of Lyons’ quote which the “Roman Catholics skipped” in their history presentation here who is “more accurate and earlier in time” for rebuttal of such prayers).
iii) FALSELY Attributed to saints in list above
Methodius
“Hail to you for ever, Virgin Mother of God, our unceasing joy, for to you do I turn again. . . . Hail, you treasure of the love of God. Hail, you fount of the Son’s love for man” (Oration on Simeon and Anna 14 [A.D. 305]).
“Therefore, we pray [ask] you, the most excellent among women, who glories in the confidence of your maternal honors, that you would unceasingly keep us in remembrance. O holy Mother of God, remember us, I say, who make our boast in you, and who in august hymns celebrate the memory, which will ever live, and never fade away” (ibid.).
“And you also, O honored and venerable Simeon, you earliest host of our holy religion, and teacher of the resurrection of the faithful, do be our patron and advocate with that Savior God, whom you were deemed worthy to receive into your arms. We, together with you, sing our praises to Christ, who has the power of life and death, saying, ‘You are the true Light, proceeding from the true Light; the true God, begotten of the true God’” (ibid.).
This is FALSELY attributed as I have discussed this particular writing in detail in [Page 266 onward of the #LastBook]
Conclusion
Example evidence by a major Church Father (third from Apostle St. John and disciple of St. Polycarp) by St. Irenaeous of Lyons that the First Roman Catholic Church did “not” Pray to Angels and so in “similar logic” would “not” have “Prayed to Virgin Mary” either
[From Page 94 onward of the #ChiliasmBook]
“…For as she has received freely Matthew 10:8 from God, freely also does she minister [to others]. 5. Nor does she perform anything by means of angelic invocations, or by incantations, or by any other wicked curious art; but, directing her prayers to the Lord, who made all things, in a pure, sincere, and straightforward spirit, and calling upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, she has been accustomed to work miracles for the advantage of mankind, and not to lead them into error. …” – Blessed St. Irenaeous of Lyons, a Hearer of Blessed St. Polycarp who is an Apostolic Father being the Disciple of Blessed St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation, Approved Church Father in the First Lutheran Father’s Book of Concord, Venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Anglican Communion, Lutheran Church,First Doctor of the Church in order of time, Father of Catholic Theology, (c. 130 AD – c. 202 AD , ‘Against Heresies’, (Book II, Chapter 32), Point 4, 5-partial)
Roman Catholic Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103232.htm
Comment: I repeat: Chiliasm fathers are the oldest Church Father’s writing extending to the millennia just that the Roman Catholics skipped it and added new stuff. So I am the one trying to return to it and if you read St. Irenaeous of lyons when he mentioned about prayer, he wrote that the Church only prays to Lord Jesus Christ and NOT to angels even which already disproves your modern roman Catholic position of praying to angels as helpers or intercessors just like prayers to Virgin Mary under the same reasoning cannot be true either as I have shown in my free pdf books with roman Catholic Source even. It’s funny that St. Ireneaous of lyons (third from Apostle St. John and Disciple of St. Polycarp) when writing about prayer never mentioned it to be done via Virgin Mary but only Lord Jesus Christ. Also the fact that in the same breath he wrote that the Church does “not” pray “nor” invoke angels for “help or intercession or whatever else” (say in Page 94 of #ChiliasmBook ) proves that the original roman Catholic Church does not pray to angels as helpers nor as intercessors too and so this proves he definitely does not pray to Virgin Mary either as those who believe such do both and those who don’t do neither prayers to virgin Mary nor to angels. It should be clear to anyone reading this. A person can lie about history but no one can change history (one day God Will Reveal be it after death even).
Question
so it sounds like it’s just a matter of using the word differently. Catholics and Orthodox don’t believe Mary and the saints are God, so they aren’t “praying to them” according to your definition
Reply
It’s called “Marian Prayers” and “Prayers to Angels” (I think you misunderstood their definition or some Catholics are deceiving you with their play of words) as per image you can see that from links below
http://www.catholictradition.org/Angels/guardians-text.htm
or this too
https://msj.edu/student-life/campus-ministry/Marian-Pilgrimage-resources.pdf
Also when Catholics & Orthodox Pray to the dead, it’s “necromancy” and prohibited in Scripture (e.g. Isaiah 8:19 – 20) in image warns ‘something will talk back to them but it is NOT the dead but familiar spirits & the Verse says those who do that HAVE NO LIGHT in THEM’ – sounds pretty serious, so let God Decide whether He Judges or has Mercy on some.
“… Mark 12:26-27
… have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, “I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob?” He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken. …”
Yea when Christ Said that Verse, He did “not” teach them to pray to Moses etc. They are living indeed but they are “bodily dead” and we are not supposed to communicate with them, remember Prophet Samuel’s case? Indeed, you are greatly mistaken.
No Church Fathers ever reported any “Virgin Mary Apparition or equivalent” Miracles. Remember that. Signs and Wonders can come from the “Devil” himself. For Roman Catholics/Orthodox, don’t forget the “Miracle Claims” and plenty of “doctor proofs” done by “pentecostals” even weekly too. Sometimes God Heals by “His Mercy” and nothing to do with proving any of your doctrinal claims
That definition of prayer is by Roman Catholic source. Only you guys seem to have more than one definition. Ours is fixed: no communicating in any way to a person who is bodily dead a example of Prophet Samuel (the bodily dead “saint” proves even in 1 Samuel 28:12 – 19). We only communicate with Lord Jesus Christ. Best is even St. Ireneaous of Lyons already said we don’t even communicate with living angels as per quote presented & mentioned clearly that only prayers to Lord Jesus for the Church. Simple as that.
Please look carefully at each quote in link, the Roman Catholics and Orthodox are simply quoting these saints even to mean something they had “not” said namely invocation of saints/angels/Virgin Mary (i.e. prayers to them is “not” found among the earliest Church Fathers timeline). The quotes mention angels and saints pray in heaven, indeed but “no” interaction “nor” prayer is mentioned between them and the living (let them do what they want in heaven) but it has nothing to do with “praying through or to them”; their errors are obvious and only the later Church father quotes erred because such understanding and distinction was obscured. I will use your same source and comment below in regard to this difference in aspect (context) and each can see and decide for themselves who is “more accurate” or “less accurate” or worst still, “who is deliberately lying using these quotes” vs “who is speaking the truth of these quotes as it is”. Let each decide for themselves which is right because it affects Salvation and/or gradation in eternity as well (it also proves that “number of converts or staying in religious power continuously for thousands of years with many churches itself is NOT proof of ‘cannot be wrong in doctrine’ & likewise ‘other doctrines of other protestant denominations can also be in error’ when compared to say Chiliasm Church Fathers especially St. Ireneaous of Lyons & St. Justin Martyr whom I follow most because we cannot simply claim to read the Bible by ourselves as everyone can read it from their own opinions’ – so this is the “honest” route I that agrees with earliest Church History as their writings cover the most topics among earliest Church Fathers.
Peace to you
Example common Arguments against Martin Luther (First Protestant & Founder of the Lutheran Churches)
Question
including his replacement theology, confusion over what justification by faith means and his anti semitism and hatred for anabaptist who he thought it was okay to drown by baptism. yeah he is insane
Reply
1) His “Replacement Theology” is also believed by say John Calvin, founder of the reformed churches and many such Christians today.
2) Justification by Faith debate has spanned entire Christian timeline and so it’s not unique to him though his impact during the reformation highlighted this topic the most.
3) Luther’s antisemitism is definitely wrong but that does not mean his other parts of theology especially when it agrees with earliest Church Fathers is necessarily wrong. A man can have his mistakes and his right points being human. For example, his interpretation of the Parable of the 5 Wise and 5 Foolish Virgins to refer to Faith + Charity Doctrine in essence agrees as a common meaning to all earlier Church Fathers (whether he read those fathers or not) and the meaning is independent of him (because Church Fathers were much earlier) and on the point they all agree such as this, the chances of it being true is higher & I don’t disagree.
4) Aiming to drown anabaptists is definitely wrong and sometimes he might have just said it in words but did not do it literally (‘figure of speech’).
Conclusion – Since “no” protestant can “skip” Martin Luther from their history (since he is the “First Protestant”) and so they must acknowledge that he is “Chosen of God” regardless, the honest part is this: the majority of errors in doctrine & attitude for majority of protestants (including me) are NOT that bad compared to his, right? I mean if GOD can choose such a man he can choose anyone, right? So we just do our part but if “not” that serious (errors in words) and not action it may affect NOT salvation but GRADATION only unless it’s the unforgivable blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. So some churches say “not” wanting to collaborate in ministry with each other or us say in “charity doctrine” based on premise of different theology is absurd since even errors like this by Martin Luther GOD ALLOWED & still used him. Peace to you
Example Martin Luther Post:
Details in link below (too much to list here):
TQ
New Book Titled Last Book – Possibilities and Dangers of Doctrine Free PDF download link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wjDRr6lzDQ-4D60J8sqmDH-S60tCqQIR/view?usp=sharing
#LastBook or #PODBook or #PossibilitiesandDangersofDoctrineBook .
PRAYER FOR the DEAD and NOT to the DEAD
The funny thing is yet again NONE of the QUOTE proves PRAYING to SAINTS. Let me quote EVERY SINGLE ONE found in the ROMAN CATACOMBS from YOUR SAME SOURCE below and you can see that in each case THEY are PRAYING to GOD so THAT these departed SOULS are COMMITTED to HIM, i.e. PRAYER FOR the DEAD and NOT to the DEAD which I support (as usual let each read “both” sides and decide who is telling the truth), to quote:
“… gave up his soul to God”
and
“Sweet Simplicius, live in eternity”
and in the Catacomb of Domitilla, third century there is:
. . . . SPIRITVS
TVVS IN REFRIGERIO
The beginning of the inscription, containing the name, has disappeared. “May thy spirit be in refreshment”.
The Commemoration for the dead.
Meménto étiam, Dómine, famulórum famularúmque tuárum N. et N. qui nos præcessérunt cum signo fídei, et dórmiunt in somno pacis.
Be mindful, O Lord, of thy servants and handmaids N. and N., who are gone before us, with the sign of faith, and sleep in the sleep of peace.
He joins his hands, prays a little while for those dead whom he means to pray for, then with his hands stretched out, continues:
Ipsis, Dómine, et ómnibus in Christo quiescéntibus, locum refrigérii, lucis et pacis, ut indúlgeas, deprecámur.
To these, O Lord, and to all that rest in Christ, we beseech thee, grant a place of refreshment, light, and peace.
In eternal sleep. Aurelius Gemellus, who lived … years and 8 months and 18 days. His mother made this for her dearest well- deserving son. In peace. I commend [to thee], Bassilla, the innocence of Gemellus.
Lady Bassilla [= Saint Bassilla], we, Crescentinus and Micina, commend to thee our daughter Crescen[tina], who lived 10 months and … days.
Matronata Matrona, who lived a year and 52 days. Pray for thy parents.
[…]
Amerimnus to his dearest well-deserving wife, Rufina. May God refresh thy spirit
Sweet Faustina, mayest thou live in God.
Refresh, O God, the soul of
Bolosa, may God refresh thee, who lived 31 years ; died on the 19th of September. In Christ.
…”
Source:
TQ
The Math of Psychology – Are our “brains stable”? (which can be seen based on ‘what we believe especially in regards to “money”‘)
The “Real” Psychological Problem of the “Prosperity Gospel” Example
1) Noah’s Ark incident is a specific event and it’s true for that case
2) Applying that to herself is definitely a common fallacy as God never “promised” anything like that because if He did, then “Christians” would never “get robbed, never die in accident, never have diseases etc.” but we know that these happen to “anyone” (Christian or not according to “free choice” and “Time & chance” as God Revealed in Ecclesiastes 9:11).
3) In fact CHRIST Himself Said that “God’s True Prophets” SUFFERED the MOST including being KILLED, MARTYRED (Matthew 23:35, Luke 11:51) or the BEST in FAITH & HOLINESS even “WANDERED HOMELESS without PROSPERITY & HUNGRY etc.” in CAVES & Mountains (Hebrews 11:37 – 38).
4) This is a common “Prosperity Gospel error” of trying due “be safe” and it’s due to psychologically living in “fear” and so trying to use “religion” (say attend church, pay tithes, holiness, do charity etc,) to try “buy” God’s Protection which is a “false” even for the New Testament as I have discussed say in [Pages 268 & 269 onward of the #LastBook] with the famous “I can do all things through Christ Verse” to mean “endure POVERTY or PROSPERITY” (both) regardless. Can you see it “as it is Written”?
5) As per HEBREWS 11:39 here referring to “Abrahamic Promise”, NOT one of THOSE of FAITH received any part of it in their LIFE on EARTH which PROVES “PROSPERITY GOSPEL as WRONG as it teaches some part of it can be ‘claimed’ now on earth. Contradiction! Please see St. Ireneaous of Lyons revealing that LORD JESUS CHRIST Taught this CHILIASM Prophecy context that “Abrahamic Promise” is only AFTER the RESURRECTION and the JEWS ERRED in [in Pages 33/34 onward of the #LastBook] or [From Page 274 onward of the #ChiliasmBook] or [From Page 230 onward of the #DoctrineBook] for more details.
Peace to you
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