“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,” – apostle Paul (2 Timothy 4:3, NASB)
What apostle Paul taught as doctrine with regards to these roles is NOT the false teaching but those who ‘teach AGAINST these verses’. Can you see how simple it is?
Interesting – Not a Chavunist but Different Roles are assigned to each gender (all New Testament verses and the verse ‘speaking regarding no more male or female is regarding a different topic with respect’ as link below discusses further):
1 Timothy 2:12
Husband and wife are slightly different phrases in Greek as Found in 1 Corinthians 7 Which are NOT used in 1 Timothy 2:12 which speak of man-woman generally.
It agrees with the meme .
God’s Authority, God Decides the Rules for it.
Our duty is to obey as obedience is better than sacrifice.
1 Corinthians 7:2 shows this distinction “irrefutably” as the words or phrases denoting “man”, “his wife (woman)”, “wife”, “her man (husband)” are distinctly seen.
“But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.” – apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 7:2, NASB)
“But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.” – apostle Paul (1 Timothy 2:12, NASB)
Please don’t forget to read the ‘other side of the coin’ before deciding which agrees with “Verses” with regards to the “topic in concern” (context).
Please remember that only the ‘antichrist’ will try to “change God’s Laws’ according to the Covenant as it is implied in Daniel 7:25.
We cannot be sent to Hell for preaching those ‘Bible Verses’ as apostle Paul himself taught it, right?
Here are other ‘Biblical Facts’ regarding this (FAQ):
1) Deborah was a Judge and NOT a priest.
A Judge is a secular leadership position which was replaced by kings.
A prophetess has the gift of prophecy and is NOT a spiritual leader. For example Anna the prophetess (Luke 2:36). Nowhere is written or implied that these doubled as a ‘spiritual leader’ (a different context entirely).
A male prophet (being a ‘man’) can be a ‘spiritual leader’.
2) New Testament Examples
There are NO New Testament examples of female ‘spiritual’ leadership. If our Blessed Lord wanted to ‘start’ such a trend for His Covenant, He could have appointed ‘female apostles’ or ‘pastors’ or ‘deacons’ or ‘bishops’ which He did NOT.
3) Phoebe the deacon?
There is NO Phoebe the deacon in Holy Scripture, The Bible does NOT contradict itself and apostle Paul is the one who wrote the verse below too (please remember that it is ‘he’, the ‘apostle of the Gentiles’ whose writing applies as ‘commands of the Blessed Lord to all Gentile believers’ as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 14:37 who wrote this too):
“I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea;” (Romans 16:1, NASB)
The word translated as “servant” here is CORRECT and is the Greek Word ‘diakonon’ which some argue that it means ‘deacon’ and hence is a spiritual leadership example.
What they don’t tell you is this:
The Exact Word ‘diakonon’ in verse above has ONLY two occurrences in the Bible, namely Romans 16:1 above and Romans 15:8 below:
“For I say that Christ has become a servant to the circumcision on behalf of the truth of God to confirm the promises given to the fathers,” (Romans 15:8, NASB)
The ‘diakonon’ here is a ‘Feminine’ word (a gender feel in Greek) and is NOT the same as the male-deacon word used for ‘spiritual leadership’ as found say in 1 Timothy 3:12.
Please note that if the ‘diakonon’ in Romans 16:1 means ‘spiritual leader’, then the ‘exact same diakonon’ in Romans 15:8 must mean ‘spiritual leader’ as well since both are Factual statements.
Romans 15:8 speaks of Christ ‘submitting’ toward the circumcision to ‘fulfill the Law’ being ‘obedient’ even to the point of death (Philippians 2:8). Christ was NOT a ‘spiritual leader’ (a priest or other equivalent role on earth) but Humbled Himself as a Servant only during this Role (Matthew 28:20 as the ‘Son of Man’).
So, if their ‘claim’ is true, then let’s replace the word “servant” with the phrase SPIRITUAL LEADER (as per their claim) and look at these two verses again as follows:
“I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a SPIRITUAL LEADER of the church which is at Cenchrea;” (Romans 16:1, NASB)
“For I say that Christ has become a SPIRITUAL LEADER to the circumcision on behalf of the truth of God to confirm the promises given to the fathers,” (Romans 15:8, NASB)
Can you see that it contradicts especially Romans 15:8 since Christ did NOT become a ‘spiritual leader to the circumcision’ (i.e. being in a Jewish Priestly Role, Hebrews 7:14) when He was the ‘Son of Man’ on earth (Philippians 2:8, Matthew 28:20)?
Lord Jesus Christ ONLY became the Singular-Melchizedek-High-Priest Post Resurrection as it is Written in Hebrews 7:21 (i.e. the ONLY Mediator between Man and God, 1 Timothy 2:5).
So Christ became a SERVANT to the CIRCUMCISION (Jews) meant that He Humbled Himself (and hence the female-gender-word-diakonon is used in Romans 15:8) describing His Perfect Humility in regards to this too.
Can’t you see it?
4) Etymology for the Word ‘deacon’ when it has the male-female feel (a proper analysis)
How about the etymology of the root word between the male-female gender feel of the ‘deacon’ word then? The root word itself means leader right?
WRONG. That’s a lie and you know it. The male-female-Greek for “deacon” NEVER means leader. It ONLY means SERVANT.
A Word which ONLY means SERVANT is used to describe a ‘spiritual leadership’ role for ‘chosen males’ say in 1 Timothy 3:12. This is because a ‘spiritual leader’ must be the ‘servant of all’ and NOT a leader like the world where these are understood in reverse (Mark 10:43 – 45).
In other words, both the Greek words (referring to the male or female deacon) ONLY means SERVANT by ETYMOLOGY or LEXICOGRAPHY. That’s how both words have the SAME ROOT meaning, namely both words means (a male or female) SERVANT ONLY respectively. Are you pretending behind ‘your Greek professorship title to deceive the masses by saying this is not so?’
For example, if the root meaning of these two words means spiritual leader, the CONTRADICTION as described in Romans 15:8 with Romans 16:1 in point 3 holds and hence ‘your analysis’ is flawed and INCONSISTENT with ONE MEANING.
The ONE MEANING of DEACON (male or female) is actually ONLY SERVANT agreeing to the rest of Scripture too.
However, when the male-deacon-word is used to describe the ‘spiritual leadership’ position, we have an appointed Biblical Role which is Gender based (e.g. 1 Timothy 3:12) as God Willed it such.
This means that we have a servant-leader because being a “deacon” is a “servant” by ‘definition of that word’ but this ‘particular servant’ (the male-gender word ONLY) is then appointed further as a ‘spiritual leader’ which is NOT described by the lexicographical-definition of this word but the ‘usage’ in 1 Timothy 3 as the ‘position’ which is ‘titled with this word’ as it is ‘described therein accordingly as it is Written’.
NO such equivalent definition for the female-deacon (servant) word is used to describe any such spiritual leadership position and so the claim is VOID. Further, the phrase ‘husband of one wife’ (1 Timothy 3:12) and ‘their women (the deacons’ wives)’ must also be ‘dignified’ (1 Timothy 3:11) mention gender specific commands/requirements as these ‘consecutive verses’ itself prove . Are we that blind?
Now, should things be done against God’s Will (Matthew 7:21) even in the context of ‘doing ministry’ in His Name, e.g. ‘prophesying in His Name or Casting or Demons in His Name or other Great Miracles in His Name’ (Matthew 7:22)?
In short, Christ doesn’t seem very impressed by ‘their MINISTRY-excuse done in His Name’ (Matthew 7:22) when it is NOT according to the Will of God (Matthew 7:21) and is not according to His Law (Matthew 7:23, 1 Corinthians 14:37, 1 Timothy 2:12) and He says this to MANY (Matthew 7:22) as part of discussing these Principles of Obeying His Law (Matthew 7:12, being against Lawlessness of any kind, Matthew 7:23) as something of a Pearl Value (Matthew 7:6), inclusive of all these things in this chapter (context), right?
God’s Will is OBEYING Written Scripture. Don’t you remember that when the Blessed Lord answered Satan, He ONLY quoted ‘as it is Written’?
5) Junia the apostle?
The NASB is a little-off in translating this verse:
“Greet Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.” (Romans 16:7, NASB)
The more word to word or literal translations read as thus:
“Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.” (Romans 16:7, KJV)
“salute Andronicus and Junias, my kindred, and my fellow-captives, who are of note among the apostles, who also have been in Christ before me.” (Romans 16:7, YLT)
Regarding ‘Junia’ (a female), the translated phrases “outstanding among the apostles” (NASB) and “who are of note among the apostles” (KJV) seem to contradict.
We can’t have two corrects as only one of them must be right whilst the other is wrong. I believe that the literal or more ‘word to word’ translations are right agreeing to the meaning that Junia was ‘famous or well known’ (i.e. of ‘well noted’, ‘noted’, ‘known’) among the apostles for her ‘good servitude toward the church’ according to her role (e. g. women always played an important role in providing and helps & as well as in charity works too, which is inclusive of rich women from secular jobs in the past too, verses: Acts 16:14 – 15, Acts 9:36, 1 Timothy 5:9 – 10).
These works are ‘not minor’ but MAJOR. For example, Acts 9:36 is resembled well by ‘blessed Theresa of Calcutta or who is dearly known as Mother Theresa’. Please note that Mother Theresa NEVER made herself into a ‘spiritual leader’ (e.g. a priest or a pastor or an apostle) but was subject to the authority of the Roman Catholic Church which is more Biblical of her than ‘any women pastors’. She focused on the Work sincerely WITHOUT HOLDING any SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP position obeying the Word of God in this respect and it is my personal request that she be shown Mercy in His Kingdom greatly by our Blessed Saviour for her works and obedience part which was in accordance to the Scripture way past her errors (all men have our errors too).
6) The Apostles
All apostles as recorded in the Bible were males.
For example, I only know of the 11 apostles to the Circumcision (Matthew 28:16) from the original-twelve (Matthew 19:28) remaining after Judas has fallen out (Acts 1:25) who was replaced by Matthias in the earthly role (Acts 1:26).
The numbering itself (e.g. 12 apostles or the eleven) proves that this Role of being an Apostle is extremely sensitive and few because it is the highest role (or the “first”) as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:28.
The Command in the Great Commission regarding “obeying all that I command you” even ’till the end of the age’ (Matthew 28:20) itself is directed to the “you” where the “you” literally refers ONLY to the APOSTLES, i.e. the 11 apostles (as mentioned explicitly in Matthew 28:16). Why is this so?
Please note that Holy Scripture mentions specifically the ‘eleven disciples’ (Matthew 28:16, who are the ‘eleven remaining apostles’) —> who are mentioned as the “you” in Matthew 28:20 —> meaning that His Commands are to be understood and carried out in the New Covenant according to the authority set by them as Christ leads them (as seen in the Inspired New Testament Writings, e.g. Acts 15, remember?).
There could be others around them when the Great Commission was spoken (Matthew 28:16 – 20) but the specific mention of the ‘eleven apostles (disciples, Matthew 28:16)’ and that the Gospel was to be OBEYED in the Way He Commanded ‘them only, the “you” in Matthew 28:20’ is specifically highlighted so that NO other Doctrine contrary to what they have Written as Inspired Writing in New Testament Scripture too may be contradicted by ‘anyone else’ (1 Corinthians 1:10, 2 Timothy 3:16, 1 Corinthians 11:16) where God is NOT the Authour of any confusing-contradicting doctrines preached in His Name across the thousands of churches AGAINST His WRITTEN Word (1 Corinthians 14:33).
Can preaching false teachings be considered as fulfilling the Great Commission with regards to ‘obedience’ as mentioned in Matthew 28:20? For example, is 1 Timothy 2:12 or 1 Corinthians 14:34 inspired Scripture?
7) How about apostle Paul’s Writings?
Does that mean that apostle Paul’s writings are not inspired or that going by this reasoning we must only obey the 11 apostles (using Matthew 28:16 and Matthew 28:20)?
Wrong Context of argument. How?
Firstly, when Matthew 28:16 – 20 was Spoken, the Gospel hasn’t gone to the Gentiles yet. Thus this means that Matthew 28:16 – 20 was Prophetic toward the ‘apostles first’.
The Gospel was only preached to the Gentiles after the Anointing of the Holy Spirit was given (Acts 1:1 – 8).
Do also note this verse (from among the quoted ones above):
“until the day when He was taken up to heaven, after He had by the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom He had chosen.” (Acts 1:2, NASB)
Please note the phrase “by the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom He had chosen” (Acts 1:2, NASB) which means exactly as explained in point 6 earlier namely that, the Gospel is to be OBEYED as the Commands are given to the apostles (e.g. in New Testament Writings, Inspired by His Holy Spirit —> for example toward the Gentiles is apostle Paul’s Writings, 1 Corinthians 14:37).
This is true since ONLY apostle Paul (singular) is mentioned to be the apostle of the Gentiles (being sent to the Gentiles by the Blessed Lord Himself, Acts 9:15 – 17). Yes, this point is re-iterated in Galatians 2:7 – 9 clearly as well.
This is the “obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake” (Romans 1:5, NASB) which seems to be lacking whenever we ‘disobey’ all these New Testament Commands of the Blessed Savior (1 Corinthians 14:37):
“through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake,” – apostle Paul (Romans 1:5, NASB)
In light of all this, we are fulfilling the Great Commission with some ‘Great Omissions’ too, right?
More details regarding His Commands may be found in posts below (not in any particular order):
8) Regarding 1 Corinthians 14:34
Some ‘American scholars’ think that 1 Corinthians 14:34 should not be in the Bible due to ‘two dots’ added by some Italian monks (?) in ‘later centuries’. Their PhD analysis is that these ‘Italian monks’ aren’t sure if 1 Corinthians 14:34 belonged to the Bible or not and so they put the ‘two-dot-marker’ on ‘some few manuscripts’. Do you want to believe that?
Who are these Italian monks to decide that after the earliest copies of the manuscripts were Written? What they don’t tell you is:
There are NO manuscripts that omit the verses.
But yet, some Christians just love to ‘believe these American Scholars’ with a PhD. Can you see the absurdity?
Further, if their claim is true and you accept it (they call it ‘new scholarship’), then why all translations of the Bible still has 1 Corinthians 14:34 in it? This is because all the ‘earliest’ and ‘accepted copyist manuscripts’ have this verse.
Can’t you see that even ‘their two-dot manuscripts’ still have this verse and was NEVER removed by these Italian monks itself? If you believe them, please tear out 1 Corinthians 14:34 from your Bibles, if you ‘dare’.
Truth is, these Italian monks were not trying to remove the 1 Corinthians 14:34 verse as FALSELY claimed by your ‘American PhD scholars’ which is especially proven since these manuscripts still contain that verse only with ‘two-dots’ beside it, right? Are you ‘blind’? These Italian monks ‘moved’ the verse from place of verse 34 and wasn’t sure if need to put it near verse 40 (or something equivalent to that) and thus that’s why they added the ‘two-dots’ which indicate that ‘they moved the verse’. Can’t you see?
Whenever Women ‘Ruled’ (especially ‘spiritually’ as ‘leaders’) the Bible (in Verse below) calls it a ‘Cursed state’ (implied) and NOT a ‘blessing’ as ‘your women-pleasing pastors utter against all these VERSES’:
“O My people! Their oppressors are children, And women rule over them. O My people! Those who guide you lead you astray And confuse the direction of your paths.” (Isaiah 3:12, NASB)
“As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.” (Isaiah 3:12, KJV)
Please note the words “women rule”, “my people”, “lead you astray”, “cause thee to err”, “confuse your paths”, “destroy your paths” when this happens as it is Written in Isaiah 3:12 above. Can your ‘pastor’ fight against Isaiah 3:12? Good luck.
Also, remember that it is the Devil (that Serpent) who will say that ‘this is not a big deal’ as he ‘deceived Eve (that woman, 2 Corinthians 11:3, 1 Timothy 2:14*)’ as he did in the ‘Garden of Eden itself’ by saying, “you will be like God” toward Eve (Genesis 3:5, NASB). Similarly, Satan wants these ‘women’ to ‘be like God’ in determining themselves as the ‘spiritual leader’ which is NOT their role as Verses discussed Prove in this New Testament Age/Covenant as Well. Yes, God Will NOT change the Covenant and the Utterance of His Lips, be WARNED! (Psalm 89:34).
*Meaning of 1 Timothy 2:14 —> Adam NEVER Fell NOR was deceived by the Serpent when he was Alone. His Sin was —–> “you have listened to the voice of your wife (woman)” rather than God (Genesis 3:17, NASB) —> he was punished lesser but was still given leadership over woman (as apostle Paul explains in 1 Timothy 2:13 – 15) —> after giving the Command in 1 Timothy 2:12 (consecutive verses) which pertains to Man-Woman generally and NOT husband-wife which is NOT the Topic here. For marriage, apostle Paul discussed it in 1 Corinthians 7 with different phrases which may be translated as husband/wife. Let’s NOT remain deceived.
Lastly, do you accept 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:12 as inspired Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16) and God Said that within His Covenant to the end of the Age (Matthew 28:20), it is all to be OBEYED and that He NEVER Changes from ‘what He has decided within a Covenant (time period of an Age)’ as mentioned in Psalm 89:34 too, right?
So, why do you believe these ‘men’ who teach AGAINST all these New Testament Verses? Is it because they ‘did some charity works to impress you’ or is it because ‘you believe that by obeying them, you are going to get blessings’? Is your faith in these men or in the Word of God? Do you believe that charity works overrides the Truth of the Gospel’s Obedience or in the Commands of the Lord (1 Corinthians 14:37)? Are you more afraid of ‘these men’ than ‘disobeying God’s Word’? Can anyone ‘go to Hell’ by preaching and teaching all these New Testament Commands as apostle Paul did toward Gentile believers (Matthew 5:19)?
So, instead of arguing about ‘spiritual leadership’, how much of these ‘work’ can ‘our Christian women do’ without assuming any spiritual leadership role as Mother Theresa (and sister Phoebe, Romans 16:1) demonstrated following after Christ as He Himself assumed a ‘servant-female-diakonon-role’ likewise toward the circumcision (Romans 15:8) doing ministry as the Son of Man on the earth too in serving others (Mark 10:42 – 45) when He made Himself was OBEDIENT as Man even to DEATH (Philippians 2:8) to FULFILL ALL Law & Prophets (Matthew 5:17).
Shouldn’t we be doing likewise (1 Corinthians 11:1, Philippians 3:17, 1 Corinthians 4:16, 1 Corinthian 1:10, 1 Corinthians 11:16) despite the suffering too (1 Thessalonians 1:6) for the True Peace by OBEYING Written Scripture as it is in other churches of the saints too (1 Corinthians 14:33) as Gentile believers producing the “obedience of faith” (Romans 1:5, NASB) toward the Commands of the Lord which pertain to us according to the authority by the Holy Spirit as He instructed His Apostles-first (Acts 1:2, Matthew 28:16, 1 Thessalonians 4:8) regarding this as it is Written in New Testament Scripture (1 Corinthians 14:37, Matthew 28:20, 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15) or do we prefer to remain Lawless (Matthew 7:23) with ‘ministry works’ (Matthew 7:22, 1 Corinthians 14:38)?
‘Focus on the Work according to His Word and not the Position and never say that you can only do the Work with a Leadership Position’ – Unknown
‘Let us not pretend to be what we are not’ – Anonymous
“for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 21:15, NASB)
“There is no wisdom, nor understanding, Nor counsel, over-against Jehovah.” (Proverbs 21:30, YLT)
‘Are you defending Christ’s Words or women’s ministry (e.g. an analogy in Matthew 7:22)?’
1 Timothy 2:12 – How did the Authorities in Doctrine understand 1 Timothy 2:12?
(i) For Christian Universalists – Origen of Alexandria
(ii) For Eternal Hell believers – Tertullian
What did they ‘preach’?
Origen (AD 185-254) stated that,
Even if it is granted to a woman to show the sign of prophecy, she is nevertheless not permitted to speak in an assembly. When Miriam the prophetess spoke, she was leading a choir of women … For [as Paul declares] “I do not permit a woman to teach,” and even less “to tell a man what to do.”
Historian Philip Schaff records early church fathers of the 3rd and 4th centuries as teaching, regarding 1 Cor. 14: 34,35,
Tertullian, the second-century Latin father, wrote that “It is not permitted to a woman to speak in church. Neither may she teach, baptize, offer, nor claim for herself any function proper to a man, least of all the sacerdotal office.” (“On the Veiling of Virgins”).
Do you still like Origen and Tertullian?
If you do, I respect ‘your obedience to His Word & authority’ —> which proves that you are not biased as these men speak the Truth set forth even in 1 Timothy 2:12.
The part which Origen or Tertullian got right (such as these, backed with Verses) is right and they are ‘wrong’ on points which they got ‘wrong’. We don’t reject anyone entirely but check each quote & practice with Scripture (wherever possible, Acts 17:11).
Please note that the Context of 1 Timothy 2:12 or 1 Corinthians 14:34 is ‘spiritual Christian leadership’ (e.g. pastors, bishops, deacons or presbyters) and NOT ‘secular leadership’ (i.e. worldly positions – managers, CEO’s etc.) where women CAN take up these LATTER ROLES (e.g. Deborah the secular-Judge).
It has NOTHING to do with Discriminating Women as the Bible doesn’t prohibit education for women or women becoming bosses in workplaces or in doing business.
The Bible only has these RULES in the Context of Religion (as God’s Church – God’s Rules) where He does NOT allow SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP ONLY even in New Testament Times toward women. Please note this ‘key difference’ (of Context) instead of ‘falsely accusing’ and finding yourself in Judgment before His Throne One Day.
We don’t change ‘Earliest Christianity’, we ‘obey’ it (NOT question it). All the so-called Verses to ‘prove the claim otherwise’ or the ‘other side of the coin’ are easily refuted (say in the following post):
Pleasing women may get you ‘women support’ and ‘pleasing God’ will get you ‘God’s Support’.
“For the time will come when they will NOT endure SOUND DOCTRINE; but wanting to have their EARS TICKLED, they will accumulate for themselves TEACHERS in accordance to their OWN DESIRES,” – apostle Paul (2 Timothy 4:3, NASB)
‘Be careful little heart, what YOU DESIRE’
Please remember that we are contending Purely New Testament Verses Written by Apostle Paul say to the EVANGELIST Timothy (in 1 Timothy 2:12) —> proving that the ‘Context’ applies to ALL CHURCHES, as the ‘evangelist’s role’ is for ‘all churches’, simple – isn’t it?
Yes, if these earliest authorities of doctrine and others understood 1 Timothy 2:12 in ‘this way’, we will understand it in the ‘same way’ too. How can someone ‘modern’ understand it differently now? The Joke’s on you because you ‘choose to mock His Word by speaking against It’ (Be Careful – Galatians 6:7, 1 Corinthians 5:12).
P/S: What if some men & women don’t like it and don’t support you?
“It is better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in man.” (Psalm 118:8, NASB)
Here is the best part:
‘The earliest and most authoritative leaders of the church all preached this SAME TRUTH as apostle PAUL and all went to heaven and became great there, right?’
Perhaps that’s a meaning and reward of ‘obedience’ which is ‘better than sacrifice’ as God wants to SEE whether we CHOOSE HIS WORD or ‘prefer the words of women (or man)’:
“But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MEN.” (Acts 5:29, NASB)
Blessed be the Name of the LORD and HIS HOLY WORD