The Mystery of Free Will
Prelude
A Mystery from the Garden of Eden: Why was Evil Created by God?
Question
Is God wrong to create evil?
Isn’t it better if God created no evil?
Doesn’t the Creation of Evil put God at fault?
Reply:
Is God wrong to create evil? no!
Isn’t it better if God created no evil? no!
Doesn’t the Creation of Evil put God at fault? No!
Explanation:
Shallow arguments against God will not stand and belong to the immature; Scripture reveals mature doctrine to understand why we are not programmed to be like robots nor animals through the “ability of choice” and ‘not’ responses via programming being made into “His Image”.
As Hebrews 5:14 goes, perhaps we were meant to eat of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil when we are “mature” first to be able to handle that knowledge.
Adam & Eve took it too early while they are immature while God forbade them at that point knowing that they are not ready.
So, when they took it pre-maturely, they fell into sin not being able to discern much.
They didn’t have the knowledge of evil but they were given the ability to choose.
It’s more of foolishness of not obeying God’s Voice which led to the Fall rather than a choice toward evil & hence the Lawyer argument doesn’t hold (being built upon a defense that ‘it was a choice to do evil’, which is NOT the case here but rather, is a ‘choice of NOT obeying’).
The Ability and knowledge to obey or not is not part of evil but of Good. There is a sin not leading to death which accounts for such imperfections in choice throughout creation (1 John 5:16). But the disobedience at the Fall was a sin leading to Death type and that’s why God warned against eating of the fruit (Romans 6:23, Romans 5:12).
*Knowing both Good & Evil and NOT doing any evil (Psalm 5:4) is the Perfection of God too (Genesis 3:22) and may He mould us in “maturity” (Hebrews 5:14) toward that ‘despite’ our fall, His Will be Done.
“And Jehovah God saith, ‘Lo, the man was as one of Us, as to the knowledge of good and evil; and now, lest he send forth his hand, and have taken also of the tree of life, and eaten, and lived to the age,’ –” (Genesis 3:22)
“For not a God desiring wickedness art Thou, Evil inhabiteth Thee not.” (Psalm 5:4)
“and of perfect men is the strong food, who because of the use are having the senses exercised, unto the discernment both of good and of evil.” (Hebrews 5:14)
Introduction
A Great Misunderstanding – God Operates All
Claim:
Some think that by such a grand statement God is responsible for evil done say in a rape or murder claiming that God Foreordained it.
A Sensible Rebuttal:
God “allows” creation to do evil by its own choice. He doesn’t Approve any of these evil done.
Please consider the following analogy:
He gave you the knowledge to know evil and gave you the material for the knife (for example).
But to use that knife to murder? That’s your choice in that.
That’s how God “allows” evil.
1 Corinthians 10:13
Are you gonna say that God caused that murder too by operating all? Good luck
A Brief Explanation
God does NOT foreordain sin as part of His Will as some of you believe (try Matthew 7:21, James 1:13, Psalm 5:4) . He allows sin to exist in His Foreknowledge.
His Judgment upon evil (Amos 3:6) type of acts is not to be confused with Him ‘allowing’ (and NOT planning NOR foreordaining) a rapist’s rape (different cases entirely) by creation’s choice to act ‘contrary to His Will’.
These are more serious concerns in understanding God’s Will correctly than falsely accusing a meaning that I never intended by the use of the term free will just because others who use it mean otherwise.
Each will be held accountable for his own words & accusations. Please choose thy words wisely and understand what the other person means first, thank you
“For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 12:37)
Example: Claiming a rapist was foreordained by God through His Wiring may not well be accepted (sounds like lawlessness and please think carefully with this verse, Matthew 7:21)
Please be careful with “your own words” especially ‘what we claim’ that ‘God’s Will approves’ simply because ‘claiming that God Himself made you do it or to speak falsely against Him or that He made you to sin may not be a valid excuse at all nor a sensible one’:
“You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.” (Exodus 20:7)
“They hate him who reproves in the gate, and they abhor him who speaks the truth.” (Amos 5:10)
All the best
Here’s a Proper Theological Understanding regarding this:
D
E
E
P
E
R
What is the meaning of God works all things after the Counsel of His Will then?
Verse:
“also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose Who works all things after the counsel of His will,” (Ephesians 1:11)
Facts:
(1) The verse above speaks of ‘Who (God) Works’ = Referring to God’s Acts Alone (be it through Creation obeying His Will or by His Action without creation)
(2) That verse does not speak of the case of creation given the choice to exercise its own will toward evil simply because sin is not God’s Will = not God’s Purpose = against His Will
(3) It speaks of God exercising His Will toward ‘all things’ (all creation) for “His Purpose” to ‘Gather them in one in Christ’ [nothing to do with the context of say a man committing a rape or a murder by his own choice which is allowed as 1 Corinthians 10:13 speaks]
(4) How do we know that His Will to ‘gather all things in Christ’ is meant as ‘His Purpose’ (Context) in Ephesians 1:11 above?
The verse before, please consider:
“with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him” (Ephesians 1:10)
He achieves it in the ‘fullness of the times’ by His Will Alone (as creation’s will does NOT play any role in determining Salvation, example: John 1:13, Romans 8:20 – 21)
(5) It speaks of the ‘Predestination’ of God (the word ‘predestined’ in Ephesians 1:11) toward His Purpose of ‘Gathering all things in Christ’ toward the ‘all things’ —-> despite the ‘all things’ (all in the world, Romans 3:19) have fallen short or missed the mark of His Perfection (Romans 3:23) —-> but yet He Wills to Justify ‘all’ through the Faith of Jesus Christ Alone (Romans 3:22)
(6) The Predestination verses thus speak of ‘God’s Act only’ and ‘toward His Purposes only’ and can NEVER be misused or misinterpreted to refer to things against God’s Will which has been ‘allowed’ but not approved (for which such creation’s will toward ‘evil’ is by their own action and will be judged accordingly for it: Matthew 7:21, John 16:8, John 7:7)
(7) So, Scripture shows three ways God Acts by His Will namely:
(a) God Allows evil to be done first under creation’s choice (James 1:13, James 1:14 – 15, 1 Corinthians 10:13, Ecclesiastes 3:1 – 10 as He appointed a time for this to be exercised & will judge it later Ecclesiastes 3:17)
God created evil (Isaiah 45:7) by allowing it to be done with these ‘control measures’ needed for ‘choice to exist’ as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 10:13 and thus those who do evil will be ‘without excuse’ (responsible for their own acts’):
“For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.” (Romans 1:20)
(b) God sometimes executes evil Judgment upon those evil ones on earth itself (Amos 3:6); ‘Evil Judgment’ rendered back according to the evil done first can refer to Isaiah 45:7 with the principles in Isaiah 3:11 too.
(c) God does Good only by His Influence (James 1:17) through some creation or by Himself ‘only’ (His Acts only, Ephesians 1:8 – 11, 1 Corinthians 15:25 – 28, Colossians 1:20) proving His Sovereignty without doing ‘sin’ as He ordained all these in such manner as Scripture distinguishes these cases distinctly.
*For some ‘good’ such as ‘blessings’, God has Foreordained it by time & “chance” too so that it is unpredictable as it is written:
“I again saw under the sun that the race is not to the swift and the battle is not to the warriors, and neither is bread to the wise nor wealth to the discerning nor favor to men of ability; for time and chance overtake them all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:11)
Cheers
Conclusion
The common fallacy of mixing these cases up which all speak of His Will for each scenario causes contradicting hermeneutics even to the point of ascribing evil to God ‘in some way’ contradicting these verses above (hence such interpretations must be false):
“This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.” (1 John 1:5)
“Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.” (Job 1:22)
“For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil dwells with You.” (Psalm 5:4)
‘His Purpose’ in (Ephesians 1:11) or ‘all His Pleasure’ (in Isaiah 46:10) certainly does NOT include ‘wickedness’ as it is ‘NOT His pleasure’ according Psalm 5:4 above. Thus, ‘wickedness’ or ‘evil’ must be ‘allowed’ only (not approved = not Foreordained) but only Foreknown and evil is done by creation’s own will of ‘choice’ as it is written.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
Let’s Begin with a warning first
A Free Will Warning: Please don’t Blame God
Accusation
Free Will = Christianity’s lame attempt to excuse God of his responsibilities.
Reply:
I don’t see any Scripture pointing to God being “responsible for DOING OR CAUSING Evil” (James 1:13 proves this) but only in CREATING evil (Isaiah 45:7) as already discussed “as it is written”.
Maybe men who cannot accept this Scriptural fact are just seeking to “blame God” For “their own” evil as God created Evil within these limited boundaries. Thus, to do evil becomes none of His Responsibility (God is a Genius, that man still can’t see).
I will stick to Job & ‘NOT’ blame God as “it is written”:
“Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.” (Job 1:22, NASB)
You may continue to remain “blaming God” (speaking ‘harshly against Him’) but here’s a warning regarding that type of speech sir (also “as it is written”):
“to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” (Jude 1:15)
I will trust God’s Word “as it is written” than any of your “let’s blame God as a moral responsibility for my own sins done by my own choice – attitude” (it’s so immature & shallow sir).
P/S:
(i) If Free Will doesn’t exist and God influenced you too do evil (contradicting James 1:13), then did God make you to “speak AGAINST Him”?
It’s an Absurd thought that God was controlling “your OWN action” to “speak AGAINST Him” (such are ‘your self contradictory opinions’ points to – which are Scripturally baseless & never makes any sense).
(ii) Does “create” and “do” mean different things?
Of course!
Can the one ‘who created the knife’ be blamed’ for ‘the knife being used to murder another person?’ NO!
It’s similar here. The “Creator” of the knife or the One who gave the ‘knowledge of knowing what is Evil’ (God) is NOT to be blamed for the ‘choice of committing murder’ (Creation’s OWN will by its OWN CHOICE). As simple as that.
(iii) How about the verses that say God is Sovereign over all?
All of it can be understood easily among similar lines as follows, please consider wisely:
We are on a cyclic repeat
“For from Him and through Him and unto Him are all things. To Him be the glory to the ages! Amen.” (Romans 11:36)
(i) Those verses prove His Will only with regards to
For From Him = ‘creating all things’ (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16)
Through Him = ‘allowing all things to practice their will’ in vanity (Romans 8:21, Ecclesiastes 1:14, Ecclesiastes 1:2) because what God does is NOT Vanity (thus what is vanity is done by creation accounting to ‘not’ God’s Will, namely its “OWN evil” and will be judged for it Ecclesiastes 3:17)
To Him = ‘despite creation’s sins’, God in His Mercy still has willed to reconcile & Save all of it (Colossians 1:20, “His Will” part revealed in Ephesians 1:8 – 10 distinct from the ‘creation’s will’ or ‘despite the will of all things implied’,, the meaning of being ‘subjected’ to hope’ in Romans 8:20 not by ‘creation’s own will’ in order to ‘deliver it from this vanity of self evil which God created to exist such, James 2:13, the ‘mercy on all’ in Romans 11:32 won’t make any sense if God authored that disobedience/unbelief; the word ‘mercy’ itself points to God implying to Save creation despite its OWN prison of disobedience by its OWN actions which God created for it in His Foreknowledge to “CHOOSE” as discussed in detail in an earlier post too detailing all these aspects even agreeing to the etymology of the word used in Original Scripture).
If you still see it shallowly, so be it. I will stick to Job 1:22 for Scripture is always right and not our perceptions to “Blame God for evil done by our own actions” in this “temporal vanity” period of “all things: which “excludes” God (1 Corinthians 15:27)
The rest of the Scripture is to be seen similarly because there is NOT one Scripture mentioning that “God DID or CAUSED evil” but rather that He did NOT only as the example verse below clearly states “as it is written”:
“Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.” (James 1:13)
Conclusion
Be wise like Job rather than those ‘who blame God’ as “it is written”:
“In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.” (Job 1:22, KJV)
Last but not least, here’s a “free will choice” regarding “your OWN words”:
“”For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 12:37)
Sorry to be a little harsh, but I have to be such to help you see the weight of this matter of wrongly “blaming God” (in ANY way) when it comes to ‘exegesis of Scripture with regards to Evil’, please consider this next statement deeply (May God have Mercy):
I’m pretty sure your ‘claim’ that ‘God made me speak those words against Him or when I sinned it was under God’s Influence’ won’t be accepted on Judgment Day; please, be serious, thank you.
“For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all those opposing you will not be able to resist nor to reply to.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 21:15)
—————————————————————————————————————-
Firstly, if “free will doesn’t exist”, the following doesn’t make sense:
Requesting “Thy Will be Done on earth” (In the Lord’s prayer) “as it is in heaven” (implying it is not necessarily done on earth, proving creation’s temporal free will) —> is not necessary if God’s Will is ‘always done’ on ‘earth’.
Let’s not forget Matthew 7’s denial verses where “only” those who do the “Will of the Father” enter into age-during life proving again the rest did “not” do the Will of God but “their own free will” causing that age-during Condemnation.
Also, quoting verses where God is involved (His Intervention is mentioned) is a special case and does not disprove free will in any way. Consider:
In the verses ‘where God’s Acts’ are quoted, it refers to the case where “creation or man” is following God’s Will.
There is no such thing as God’s Plan is different from His Will.
In Fact, where is the verse that says that God’s Plan is different from God’s Will? Also, what is the Scriptural definition (with verses pointing to it) & not opinions?
The fact that creation’s will or the “will of man” is mentioned in Scripture itself proves that it is ‘not of God’ and certainly “not God’s Will” but is its own free will as God Predestined it such. Here is one such example verse differentiating “God’s Will” as different from the “Will of Man” (man’s own temporal free will) proving that these are ‘distinct’:
“who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.” (John 1:13)
Again the verses you are quoting proves the case where “God is Leading”. It does “not” account for the cases where He is NOT leading such as creation doing sin! God does NOT lead anyone to evil or sin as James 1:13 clearly mentions too though He “allows” evil only agreeing with (1 Corinthians 10:13) in the realm of ‘choices’ available through ‘temporal non-absolute free will’.
He is free to choose but not free from the consequence of his choice. The influence on man’s will when he does “evil” is fellow creation and NOT God when man does evil (James 1:13 contradicts any position otherwise).
Introduction
Free Will: Did God do Evil in apostle Paul’s Judgment or case?
No!
Please consider:
Here’s another example
Not quite in the case of Paul either, the Bible says something else.
Namely, apostle Paul was given that messenger of Satan in the flesh to “buffet him” (for his own good due to his own weakness in the flesh).
That’s why Scripture maintains that God didn’t remove it, because it Was for Paul’s own “Good” (NOT evil, implying God didn’t DO evil) as it is written:
“Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me– to keep me from exalting myself!” (2 Corinthians 12:7)
The “Good” is so that apostle Paul doesn’t “exalt himself” causing his own fall. God “allowed” that “Judgment” (evil, 1 Corinthians 10:13) from Satan for “Good”. God did not “do” that evil but “allowed” it agreeing to Isaiah 45:7, with 1 Corinthians 10:13 & James 1:13 too.
It’s a different case from the “evil” not accounted for in ‘any’ of the verses you have quoted namely, the “evil” which has “no purpose” But just creation’s will to do that Evil such as a “rape or murder”.
It matters to see these distinctions for these are different cases & God never “does” evil (James 1:13) & that case is creation’s free will to be judged for it (Ecclesiastes 3:17) too.
To view all as one case is a common shallow Fallacy and misconception contradicting especially James 1:13.
As apostle James warned, “Do not be deceived” (James 1;16) by thinking otherwise.
Apostle Paul’s free will is not meant by determining the thorn in the flesh but that he could exalt himself.
If apostle Paul did not have free will, then God could have just removed his ability or choice to exalt himself instead of causing an external influence to judge or buffet him. The external influence to keep him at bay instead of forcing a change from within Paul itself proves Paul’s free will in his action (to become proud) but not free from the consequence of his choice which leads to “Judgment” Thus explaining the reason of control given.
Why doesn’t God do likewise to all as He did to apostle Paul then?
That’s a simple answer, it’s not monotonically homogeneous for God to do such for all.
He has His reasons and will reveal it on Judgment Day why He intervened on Paul’s case but not in all cases likewise.
Create evil is what’s written in Isaiah 45;7 and not do evil.
The inability to see the definition to this level of accuracy causes the misunderstanding.
By creating evil, He gives a choice and freedom for creation to do evil without Judging or stopping the evil done immediately (the meaning & limitation of “free” in free will). Creation will be judged later for it.
How to understand evil with regards to God’s Ways?
His ways regarding evil are defined by James 1:13, 1 Corinthians 10:13 and Isaiah 45:7 too where He “creates” (a choice due to it) and “allows” (its action to be carried out by Creation’s free will choice, 1 Corinthians 10:13) with no influence of His on it (James 1:13, not to be confused ‘with Judgment verses’, a different case) & judges creation accordingly for it even for their own influence toward each other on it (Matthew 7:21, Ecclesiastes 3:17)
If all things operate according to the counsel of his will then man so-called choosing to do evil is also God’s will. Right?
Nope. This is another common Fallacy.
That verse proves that He does His Will to correct evil done despite evil done by Creation and not through creation’s evil as commonly erred in understanding simply because creation’s evil is not His Influence nor His Action as written in James 1:13 but only His Allowance agreeing to 1 Corinthians 10:13.
As even Job understood evil with regards to God “creating & allowing” it but “not that God does it” Even whilst facing tremendous evil as it is written:
“In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.” (Job 1:22)
Influence of Evil is NOT from God (please read James 1:13 carefully to understand this).
Influence to do evil exists (yes, but it’s from other creation, Satan or Spiritual wickedness in the spirit realm, Ephesians 6:12, Psalm 82 & 2 Corinthians 4:4 – the source of evil by their exercising of their will with “no” influence from God either upon them, James 1:13).
Influence doesn’t eliminate creation’s responsibility over its own actions to do evil because it’s not allowed beyond its choice to do it (1 Corinthians 10:13) assures this always though we cannot see it & those who do the evil always lie (or claim otherwise) to make them look helpless or innocent so they can blame it on God or their mental illness (I was such before too) just to escape the consequence of their actions deceiving those who believe them.
I will rather stick to Scriptural facts “as it is written”.
I have nothing more to say, it’s all clear.
Thank you for the cool dialogue too presenting both sides of the view sir, cheers
We are “free” to disagree (free will there) .
How about the official definition of free will?
That definition Doesn’t bother me as I see it with the way described in Verses quoted & explanations given here.
Their own rendering of it unaffects what’s discussed here.
How about men being slave to sin when committing sin?
Slave to sin when committing sin and Not to God
Slave to God only if one does God’s Will which consists of “no” evil.
Sin is not obeying God’s Will nor fulfilling God’s Will but being against it by choice of our own imperfections and actions (free will clearly implied here, again).
To be delivered from our ‘free will’ to do ‘evil or sin’ permanently, we need Christ our Saviour to set us ‘free’ from this ‘bondage of corruption (serving sin, evil)’ due to this temporal ‘vanity’ as it is written too (Thanks be to God our Saviour for that):
“For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.” (Romans 8:20 – 21)
*True freedom is ‘freedom from sin’ and not ‘freedom to sin’ as ‘vanity of free will teaches’
WARNING: The following is long & detailed and presented in the Classic Apologetics Style.
(i) Does Free will exist?
Please consider:
I believe that there is “free will” But “no absolute free will”.
Our “free will” is doing evil when not guided by God such as the Lord Remarks toward Satan being a “liar” from “his own resources” (not God’s influence, John 8:44) or when men produce “evil” from their “hearts” too (Jeremiah 17:9, Luke 6:45, Matthew 12:34 – 35, Ecclesiastes 9:3).
All Perfect & Good Gifts are from the “Father” of lights only. Meaning any man’s goodness in any good act too is from ‘God alone’ (please note the word “every” in James 1:17, in Greek it is literally “Every Act of Giving Good”).
Men ‘think’ they are being good but it’s actually God working through any men (believers or unbelievers) in such instances due to His Sovereignty (Scriptural proof regarding God stirring “a man not knowing God Himself, King Cyrus of Persia in Isaiah 45:5” to fulfill God’s Will of ‘Good’ —> “arousing Cyrus in righteousness”, Isaiah 45:13 —> proving God can ‘influence over any man’s free will’ though they don’t know Him nor acknowledge Him), —-> proving the Absolute Sovereignty of God’s Will & the fact that “Every Good” comes from Him Alone though some men often ascribe it to ‘themselves’ or ‘other things’ such as “free will” & end up glorifying themselves instead of God for the ‘good done’.
Because ‘we do both good’ & ‘evil’ —> and our ‘intent’ for ‘doing good’ remains ‘imperfect’ (as we hope for blessings or cannot do the good by ourselves ‘alone’ without God’s Influence) —> falling short of God’s Perfection when He does His Good through Himself Alone (when compared, example of God’s Will done by Christ Alone is the unstoppable ‘Faith of Jesus Christ’s effect’, Romans 3:3-4, 22, 28, Colossians 1:20) —> “our righteousness” remains ‘tainted’ (by aspects mentioned or other imperfections too) Implied by the phrase “filthy rags” in Isaiah 64:6 too agreeing to all these.
Thus, God creating both “Good & Evil” (Isaiah 45:7) is to be understood as He created the Providence for evil similar to the creation of the “Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil” (Genesis 2:17) Where God also warns not to eat of it.
This means that God created Evil and gave free will whilst also warning not to disobey Him. But when any creation chooses its free will above God’s Commands, it follows the way of Evil. The Purpose seems to be that apart from abiding in Him, we become evil in ourselves. Also, to return to Him, it’s not possible without Him drawing us first. So, through evil we understand that abiding in God is the only way to be set free from ‘the slavery of sin’. Thus, it proves that we need external help & can’t save ourselves —> which is found only in our Blessed Saviour, Lord Jesus Christ.
Our “free will” is guided or influenced by God when we “believe in Him” without seeing —> “our faith” Thus being a gift from Him (John 6:44).
By “absolute” free will, I mean any Free will which is able to resist God’s Will forever. I don’t believe that’s possible as I believe that He Will “Draw” all men to Him (John 12:32).
Also, the ‘gathering of Jerusalem’ like hens under the wings example, proves “temporal free will” resistance “until” Jerusalem says, ‘blessed is He who comes in the Name of the LORD’ (meaning ‘no’ absolute free will exists against God forever, discussed in detail in link below too).
Simply put, the General verse discussing “creation’s will” being subjected to “vanity” (futility or vanity means that free will cannot last eternally, nor is all powerful) —> the “hope” part then describes it being “set free” (by “Him”, implying God’s Will more powerful than creation’s free will) —> where “creation” set free from “decay/corruption” (‘sin & Its consequences’) —> finally becoming “children of God” again (“Restored” to God’s Will), agreeing to 1 Corinthians 15:25 -28 too that God becomes “all in all” in the end after the “subjection” in Love.
More detailed aspects can be found in link below sir for Edification
https://www.google.com/amp/www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/free-will-versus-gods-will-dilemma-will-god-really-save-world/amp/
(ii) If we do not have absolute free will then we have “restricted” will, right? If we have free will, what is our free will free from? Aren’t our steps ordered by the Lord?
Good question,
Our steps are ordered by the Lord as “He Wills”.
Meaning, God can choose to order ‘some of our steps’ in ‘this life’ as we ‘submit to Him’ (Proverbs 3:6, Psalm 37:3, Proverbs 16:9, Psalm 119:113, Proverbs 20:24, Psalm 37:5, 1 Peter 2:21, Jeremiah 10:23)
So, whenever our “free will” chooses “evil”, we are given up to a ‘debased or depraved mind’ (Romans 1:28) & in impurity too (Romans 1:24).
So, knowing these the question “why does God find fault then?” clearly arises as it is written in verse below:
“You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” (Romans 9:19)
The Reply:
“What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?” (Romans 9:22)
Please note that “He endured with patience” —> ‘their evil due to that temporal free will first’ —> justifying God’s Will of making these ‘vessels of Destruction’ —-> as even clearly written in Jude 14 – 16 or Jude 1:14 – 16 —> which clearly points to “them speaking harshly against Him first” & ‘doing sin first’ due to ‘their free will’:
“It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.” (Jude 1:14 – 16)
Another reason for those ‘religious ones being condemned’ —> is due to trusting “their works” (idolising it) creating “pride” —> any equivalent thoughts of ‘man’ thinking they are ‘good’ especially thinking it’s “their free will saving them” —> instead of the “Faith OF Jesus Christ Alone for Salvation”:
“Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,” (Romans 9:32)
But ‘only’ God knows ‘Who He wants to save or condemn’ because clearly by all these Perfect Principles written in His Word, all of us fall short.
“For He says to Moses: “I will show mercy to whom I may show mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I may have compassion.” (Romans 9:15)
“So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.” (Romans 9:18)
Example, I do feel at times that I am good when I do good works which by understanding Scripture, I remind myself that it is due to God Alone in that moment and my sins remain mine (“our free will stained by evil” as verses below describe even ‘after repentance’ in the ‘anointed apostle Paul too’ at times when ‘we fall’).
“For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.” (Romans 7:19)
“For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.” (Romans 7:15)
“But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.” (Romans 7:16)
“But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.” (Romans 7:20)
“Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?” (Romans 7:24)
Conclusion regarding our “imperfect free will” influenced by God & evil of sin in us?
“Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.” (Romans 7:25)
(iii) Anyway, does God choose to order SOME of our steps and not all?
Answer is Romans 7:25 in conclusion above where some steps of ours ‘serve the law of God’ while ‘some other steps’ serve ‘the law of sin in the flesh’ but both are ‘ordered’ by God as ‘He draws us to Him’ (His Act alone) or ‘when we seek sin’ (our free will act toward evil emerges, He gives us up to a depraved mind).
(iv) Do we have restricted free will?
On Earth,
We have “restricted free will” toward “Good” because we can only do Good when “God’s Will influences us”.
We have ‘temporal restricted free will’ with regards to ‘doing evil’ on earth.
Where,
Temporal —> meaning any evil done under this ‘free will of ours whilst on earth’ —> cannot last nor affect anything (including afterlife punishment) to eternity due to “free will” being subject to “vanity, futility, frustration” (‘vanity’ is non-absolute) in Romans 8:20 –> when “free will” is serving “decay, corruption, bondage” (‘sin’) Romans 8:21 —> and it is promised to be “set free” into “liberty” as “Children of God” (‘no’ more sin or serving sin eventually by ‘all creation’ ad promised in Romans 8:21 too)
Restricted –> meaning we can only do the “evil” using “our free will” in accordance to ‘our given strength’ —> example, people with more ‘power’ can do ‘more evil’ using ‘their free will’ on earth —> it is also ‘restricted’ because at any time God can judge that person too on earth or He will definitely judge punishments “according to the malice (evil) done” in the afterlife punishments “proportionately” (Isaiah 3:11, Luke 12:47 – 48)
(v) Free means “unrestricted”, so we have unrestricted restricted will? So, God only influences us to do good, so when we do evil then God is not involved? Am I right to say that God doesn’t influence us ALWAYS?
No, the ‘term free will’ is not found in Holy Sripture, only will.
I refer to it as “free will” because of its popular rendering of it. The term “free” in “will” is not found in Scripture. Scripture speaks of “Creation’s will only”.
So, arguing from the “free” in “free will” to be “absolute” freedom is not proven.
Free can also mean restricted freedom just like we are “free” but bound by the Laws of a country. The word “free” in “free will” or even “freedom” is to be understood such. The meaning is not in we defining it to be absolute but rather in finding Scripture which proves that it’s absolute. No such Scripture exists and best still, the Scripture proving that “freewill of creation” is non-absolute in a ‘general verse comparison’ (perfect context) exists as discussed prior in Romans 8:20 – 21.
Regarding ‘God influences us during evil’ statement, He doesn’t because He doesn’t tempt anyone into evil as it is written:
“Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.” (James 1:13)
Example, Job was tempted & tested by Satan, not God. God permitted it.
For cases not relating to righteous men such as Job, one is enticed by ‘evil’ due to the consequence of ‘knowing evil’ & ‘desiring it’ (‘our free will alone’) as verses clearly describe ‘how any sin is done’ (please note that “God” is Absent from the verse below which ‘fully describes how sin originates & ends’):
“But a man is tempted, being drawn away and being enticed by the own desire.
Then desire having conceived, gives birth to sin; and sin having become fully grown, brings forth death.
Do not be misled, my beloved brothers.” (James 1:14 – 16)
(vi) Okay, so you are freely bound by the laws of the country? We are free but need to abide by the laws of the country, is that your standpoint? Are you saying that your free will is free from divine intervention?
On Earth yes and no with regards to intervention as God decides whether to intervene on whichever person’s lives (“His Mercy” on these) or He lets one run their own lives to the ways of death thereof (“He Hardens these”).
But God’s Judgment & Reconciliation beyond this life is certain by His Will Alone Saving the World in the End (1 Corinthians 15:25 – 28, Where God becomes “all in all” eventually).
(vii) God appointed a time for EVERYTHING, right? And He appointed this times BEFORE the events happen, right? Even evil events have had times appointed for, right?
“There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven—
A time to give birth and a time to die;
A time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted.
A time to kill and a time to heal;
A time to tear down and a time to build up.” (Ecclesiastes 3:1 – 3)
Explanation, please consider:
Ecclesiastes 3:1 – 10 speaks of “man’s work” (mentioned in verse 9) as “God has granted it such on earth” (verse 10, ‘under heaven’ in verse 1 too).
That “free will” or task given is “limited” to “earth” only.
That God makes “everything Beautiful” in the “time” of the “age” eventually is promised mysteriously in the ‘next verse’ after it namely
“He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set the age in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.” (Ecclesiastes 3:11)
Yes, the “appointed time for evil” speaks of His Foreknowledge & His Judgment later toward it:
The “evil” done by the “free will of man” will be “judged” accordingly as well as the “Good” men have done through His Influence:
“I said to myself, “God will judge both the righteous man and the wicked man,” for a time for every matter and for every deed is there.” (Ecclesiastes 3:17)
(viii) I don’t dispute that the evil by man will be judged. The Bible says that God has appointed time for every happening, right?
Yes that’s right. He appointed a time for evil to judge it later.
His Judgment is the Breaking of the Pots to Remake them; Judgment is not the End but the Remaking & Restoration & Reconciling of all things is the End
More edifying details in link below too:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/remade-fall-rise-grace/amp/
(ix) When a woman is raped, did God appoint a time for that happening?
This is a Classic.
Yes
The Influence of the free will of man leading to it is that of the “rapist” who acts on “his own free will” (God doesn’t influence the rapist to do it, James 1:14 – 16) —> God just allows an “appointed time” for that ‘evil men’ to ‘exercise his free will’ —> Justice is ‘later’ in afterlife punishments or even earthly punishments or both unless he repents
God decides whether to forgive or not by His Will (Romans 9:15) and He can choose not to forgive despite the rapist thinks he has repented or seeks it with tears as an analogy in Scripture in these verses also show (Hebrews 12:17, 2 Kings 24:4)
(x) If God knew beforehand that a woman would be raped, and He doesn’t like it, would He stop it?
He can and as the example of some cases show, some women have escaped or been saved by others while most in such cases end up being raped.
We can’t ascertain the details of why He saves some and allows others to be raped, but regardless the “free will of man” on earth to do it is evidently given.
He doesn’t usually intervene from Heaven itself to stop it if that’s what you mean because no human is worthy of such level of deliverance.
If one is worthy like that, He would do it. Since all human are imperfect, no such Direct Deliverance from Heaven can be demanded.
If any cases of such deliverance exists, it’s by His Mercy only and not merited in any way.
(xi) If culprit “A” raped victim “B” and God had appointed a time for that happening, where is the culprit’s free will? Was it possible for the rapist not to fulfill the prophecy?
The prophecy is God “allowing the time” (not approving the A
“evil” acts done under the time period in which our ‘free will’ is to be exercised ‘under heaven’ in Ecclesiastes 3). That’s why He judges “each act” done under this “free will – time allowance” accordingly in Ecclesiastes 3:17. If the prophecy here meant, God approves ‘the deed together with the time’ (‘as appointed for’), the He need not Judge if He approves it, and it’s not the case described in Verses.
The “free will is in the allowance of time on earth for that culprit to do it” without it being ‘intervened immediately by God’, that’s the “free will on earth”.
Regarding such evil men:
“They have said, “The LORD does not see,
Nor does the God of Jacob pay heed.”
Pay heed, you senseless among the people;
And when will you understand, stupid ones?” (Psalm 94:7 – 8)
He Will only “Judge” later during “that appointed time” (when He “judges the Earth”, Psalm 94:2) pulling out “Vengeance” accordingly:
“O LORD, God of vengeance,
God of vengeance, shine forth!
Rise up, O Judge of the earth,
Render recompense to the proud.
How long shall the wicked, O LORD,
How long shall the wicked exult?” (Psalm 94:1 – 3)
(xii) You are not answering me. If God foreknew something, could it be otherwise? If God has appointed a time for an event, can it be otherwise! You are not answering me. If God knew beforehand that Sodom and Gomorrah should sin and be destroyed, could it have been otherwise?
He appointed the “time” for both “evil & Good deeds” done through the “free will of man”, but doesn’t “approve” the “evil” part which “He Judges” later.
His Foreknowledge is shown and not His approval of Evil. If He approved evil, He wouldn’t judge against it by punishing it later.
(xiii) If man fulfills that which God prophesied before man was born, where does man’s free will fit in?
God prophesies a “choice” (either way, good or evil) in the “appointed time” & His Foreknowledge reveals our choice in advance for the revealed cases.
Regarding the “event” itself, the logical Fallacy is a Classic one. Please allow me to illustrate:
Culprit A is not only given the ability to “rape person B” (this evil thought stemming from ‘his free will toward desire to sin through the knowledge of Evil’) but also to “not rape person B” (Influence of God through his conscience & knowledge of Good).
The “decision” thereafter which causes the “event” to be ‘rape’ instead of ‘not rape’ proves the ‘free will choice chosen by that man’ which “God doesn’t stop” as He has “appointed the time” for such “decisions” to be made by ‘men’s free will’ each time.
Thus, He judges later based on whether they chose His Good or their evil evidenced by the acts performed.
(xiv) If God says “yes” , can you use your free will to say “no”?
God didn’t say a yes to rape, He have a choice in such cases.
If God says a yes, no one can make it a no & vice versa.
(xv) Could God have stopped the rape if He wanted to?
He didn’t want to stop that rape, because if He did, He would have stopped it.
So, it doesn’t prove His approval of that rape. It proves that He allowed the free will of the rapist to choose evil to do it for ‘that allowed time’. God’s disapproval of it is seen through the fact that He will judge the rapist accordingly be it on earth or the afterlife or both.
(xvi) If what God says goes, no matter what, then where’s your free will?
The Free Will of that rapist is seen that he rapes without God instantly intervening, that’s all the free will given.
This act will be judged later surely by God.
(xvii) Does God have the final word in every matter?
The final Word is Ecclesiastes 3:17 where it is “Judgment”.
The “appointed time” is not the “final word”. This is an “intermediate temporal time for free will to be exercised on earth” for good or evil by men accordingly.
(xviii) Are you saying that God ALLOWS the woman to be raped just so that the free will of the rapist is respected?
His Final Word is Judgment (on that rape) and not the event (rape) that happened.
The event that happened is by the act of men (e.g. the rapist) and not by God, so that’s not His Final Word.
His Final Word on that rape matter or any matter in (Ecclesiastes 3:1 – 10) is Ecclesiastes 3:17 as it is written.
(xix) What is your free will free from?
Free from direct intervention of God to stop your evil deed on earth only.
(xx) What do you mean by “direct” intervention?
Only rare cases exists where God directly stops evil on earth due to reasons Unknown to us.
(xxi) The event of rape was appointed by God before the rapist was born, right?
This is a Classic.
Yes, He doesn’t intervene till after the time if all these wicked deeds are completed. He judges later.
(xxii) Leave the intervention out for now. The event of the rape was appointed by God before the rapist was born, right?
Wrong,
The appointed thing is “time” (choice together with it) —> the “rape” or event is the choice of the rapist by his free will choosing evil —> God “appoints” the “time” with respect to “Judgment” only and ‘not the event itself’ as it is written:
“Because to every purpose there is time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him.” (Ecclesiastes 8:6, KJV)
(xxiii) So God does not have the final word in the events that happen?
Nope, not on earth for the ‘evil or good’ is allowed (both) at the same time by “free will” as even Isaiah 45:7 speaks of “both”.
In Judging it eventually, yes He shows the “END” in Isaiah 46:9 – 10.
The “event” (of rape is the ‘intermediate’, Ecclesiastes 3:1 – 10) which will be “judged” (Ecclesiastes 3:17) in the “END” where He will do the things “NOT DONE” (e.g. His Response to that ‘rape’, the rape is a DONE event & can’t be referred to as HIS FINAL WORD)
(xxiv) Is it possible that God can have foreknowledge of something but that thing fails to happen because of man’s free will? If God knew in His foreknowledge, the question is: was it possible that it could be otherwise?
Yes, absolutely!
He allows it otherwise. That’s His Choice to prove that men’s or creation’s “free” will leads to evil only without Him. Thus proving Him a Savior to deliver it later (the Final Word regarding this matter, Romans 8:20 – 21 testifies).
In “intermediate Events” on earth when He appointed such “free will to be fulfilled by Man”.
Example: It is His Will that we should not sin (e.g. commit rape). But men who obey this, fulfill His Will & men who don’t, don’t fulfill His Will
God’s Final Say regarding Judgment of it is later.
That is, God’s Will which is to be fulfilled by Man is subjected to man’s free will when he doesn’t fulfill it but aided by God’s Influence when he fulfills it.
But Isaiah 46:10 speaks of God’s Will that is to be fulfilled by God’s Act alone without any dependence on men’s actions such as Judgment & Salvation which will surely come to pass.
We must not confuse the verse speaking of either one of these God’s Will cases nor confuse a final word from God with an intermediate event state on earth due to evil.
(xxv) We agree that God knew beforehand about the rape, right? Let me get this straight. Are you saying that God does NOT have a final say in all matters?
Yes on earth, for The Will of God which He gives choices for men to make to choose good or evil as it is written (‘for Earth choices’, Deuteronomy 30:15 – 18, in principle):
“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:” (Deuteronomy 30:19)
*Choice is given
This is the “intermediate” (“events” state on earth & not the ‘end’ state as described in Isaiah 46:9 – 10) as it is “on earth” while “you live” here.
(xxvi) Are you saying that God does NOT have the final word here on earth? Please print Isaiah 46:9-10
Now regarding the “End” spoken in Isaiah 46:9 – 10 below:
“Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:” (Isaiah 46:9 – 10)
Firstly, the “End” is things “not done” & those that “give Him pleasure” from the ‘former things’ (certainly does “not” include ‘rape’).
What is this “end” & “things not done” that is being referred to?
It is matters pertaining to “Salvation” & “Righteousness” (‘NOT rape’) as few verses later it is Revealed as follows:
“I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.” (Isaiah 46:13)
It proves that God doing “all His Pleasure” in the “End” does “not” include ‘evil done by Creation’ because only the deeds pertaining to “Righteousness” (including “Judgment” because “Righteous Judgment” means this) & “Salvation” are His Works.
“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 7:24)
(xxvii) Joseph’s brothers sinned by lying, planning to kill and selling Joseph. Are you saying that God did not want them to sin but they did anyway?
Joseph’s brothers case is an example of God using evil for his good as the verse goes:
“As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.” (Genesis 50:20)
But the above is an example of God’s Intervention toward “His chosen” (e.g. Joseph to fulfill a purpose or correct an evil to bring forth good despite that evil).
The logical Fallacy is to take that “special case” which had the condition of a “special purpose” of “God’s Chosen Joseph” to “preserve many people alive” —> any apply that ‘logic generally’.
The “evil” done in a rape most likely does not have those conditions of God’s chosen or a Purpose of God in it but just being an “evil act due to free will of man on earth” which will be “judged later”.
To prove that such a rule quoting Joseph’s example in Genesis 50:20 applies generally, where is the verse that says “all” evil is done or allowed by God for outcome of Good?
No such verse exists generally. The examples similar to Joseph (or even the “Jabez prayer”) where despite evil being done to him, but God intervenes ‘sometimes’ (His Choice) toward some of His Servants and brings out good on “earth” itself remains a special limited instance, and not promised generally as ‘often quoted out of context in popular exegesis too’.
He also allowed other servants of His to ‘suffer for good too’ toward the “End” or ‘final word’ of rewarding them later in a ‘better resurrection’ too (verses regarding ‘suffering’ on earth by God’s Will too for ‘those chosen for it’):
“For I will show to him (apostle Paul) how much it behooves him to suffer for My Name.” (Acts 9:16)
“And He said to her, “What do you wish?” She said to Him, “Command that in Your kingdom these two sons of mine may sit one on Your right and one on Your left.”
But Jesus answered, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink?” They said to Him, “We are able.”
He said to them, “My cup you shall drink; but to sit on My right and on My left, this is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by My Father.” (Matthew 20:21 – 23)
“Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.” (1 Peter 4:19)
“But even if you should suffer because of righteousness, you are blessed. “And you should not be afraid of their threats, neither should you be troubled.” (1 Peter 3:14)
“Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.” (2 Timothy 3:12)
“Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection;
and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment.
They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated
(men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.” (Hebrews 11:35 – 38)
“For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.” (1 Peter 2:20)
(xxvii) Where is free will in Romans 8:20 – 21?
“subject to vanity” —>
What is “vanity”?
“Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher,
“Vanity of vanities! All is vanity.”
What advantage does man have in all his work
Which he does under the sun?” (Ecclesiastes 1:2 – 3)
“All” (creation excluding God, 1 Corinthians 15:27) is “vanity” simply because we “won’t remain in the current state forever” —> God Makes ” all things new” eventually (Revelation 21:5)
How does “vanity” (Ecclesiastes 1:2) relate to “free will” (the word free will itself doesn’t exist but refers to “creation’s will”)?
Two ways of looking at this:
(a) Simple: It’s in Ecclesiastes 1:3 (the next verse) Where “all his (a man’s) work” is mentioned in reference to Ecclesiastes 1:2 as “vanity”? No eternal effect.
And “all his work” —> includes the ones done by “the creation’s or man’s free will” —> which is “vanity”.
Good Work done in God as we have discussed already is due to “God Alone” and thus the “non-vanity” applies due to “exception clause of God not being part of ‘all things’ subject to vanity” (1 Corinthians 15:27)
(b) Second way to look at it is just by considering Ecclesiastes 1:2 by itself only.
“All (creation) is vanity” —> implies its “evil” done by its “free will” or “creation will” or ‘whatever we wanna call it’ —> is included in the “all” (because the definition of “All”) includes the “free will” of “creation” too —> to be “vanity” —> thus applicable to the “vanity” subjected in Romans 8:20 – 21
Not Willingly, refers to God’s Sovereignty to subject creation to corruption by choice of the “knowledge of Good and Evil” (that He created Evil). For creation cannot will by itself and create the knowledge of evil. By choosing this Knowledge of Evil, it acts the evil of which its free will does & this “act” part is the ‘free’ part God gave them to choose.
It doesn’t end there as God put this in “hope” —> of ending this temporal non-eternal free will state to choose evil —> setting it free to liberty (from corruption of sin, as discussed prior) —> being Children of God (only obeying God’s Will & no more evil choices)
(xxviii) Does the “End” in Isaiah 46:9 – 10’s prophecy refer to ‘good things only’ or ‘all things’?
Not good things only but “all things” as Scripture reveals this “end” prophecy later primarily in New Testament verses being more clear about it too.
Making “all things” (including all creation, a definition Colossians 1:16, with Reconciliation Colossians 1:20) –> to be Good in the “End” is the prophecy as other verses clearly Reveal (Colossians 1:20, Revelation 21:5, Romans 8:20 – 21, 1 Corinthians 15:25 – 28) —> that’s how we understand the “End” which gives “Him Pleasure” because God becomes “all in all” in the “End”.
The “Pleasure” of God is in the “End” when He “makes all things new (Reconciled, Restored, in His Will as He fills all things being ‘all in all’).
In the” Former things” which give “Him pleasure” –> referring to only the things “done according to (or obeying His Will)” —> sin & evil things not included in giving Him pleasure
(xxix) How is evil done then?
With regards to “creation’s will or action”
as it is written:
“Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.” (James 1:13)
(xxx) The meaning of “God hardening” them
“So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.” (Romans 9:18)
By “hardening”, He stops “His Good” upon them, and they follow ‘their evil hearts’ (not that God causes them to do the evil). Thus, they end up following after “their own depraved minds doing evil” too, of which the “knowledge of evil” is influenced (or passed on somehow mysteriously) by the initial ‘eating of the tree of Good & Evil’ (kinda like ‘God let’s go of His Good upon them & they fall into the remaining evil apart from Him’).
“And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,” (Romans 1:28)
“Therefore God gave them up in the desires of their hearts to impurity to dishonor their bodies between themselves,” (Romans 1:24)
As verses below agree:
“Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” (Genesis 6:5)
“The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9)
“But a man is tempted, being drawn away and being enticed by the own desire.
Then desire having conceived, gives birth to sin; and sin having become fully grown, brings forth death.
Do not be misled, my beloved brothers.” (James 1:14 – 16)
(xxxi) Does God use “some” rape for Good?
He doesn’t use any rape for Good.
But despite a rape, He can bring forth a servant of God for example in that child
But to say that God brings forth good through ‘all’ rapes is not sensible.
There could be children from rape who became criminals or sex offenders too.
We can’t generalise these things because God doesn’t guarantee that He must correct or judge on earth itself but surely in the afterlife even the rapist after experiencing His Judgments, will learn righteousnes –> end up saved in the end.
That’s how I see “God Works all things through the Counsel of His Will” (Ephesians 1:11) —> in the “End” results —> in “Judgment & Restoration”
(xxiii) Free Will vs God’s Will in Christ’s Example
The Son is the Perfect Obedience to God’s Will when He fulfilled All God’s Will whilst in earth as Man too
The verse below speaks a temporal moment where Christ highlights ‘his will’ vs ‘Father’s Will’ (distinctly mentioned):
“saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.”
Emphasis:
“not my will” = Christ’s will as Man (free will, creation’s will option in choice is likewise present)
“But Yours be Done” = The Father’s Will
Clearly distinguished “his will” to be “opposite” to the “Father’s Will” in the “question” regarding the “choice” as to whether ‘the Cup of Suffering’ could be lifted away?
It’s not a contradiction in Scripture because Christ did “not” act on the ‘opposite’ will but rather “chose” to “obey the Father’s Will”.
The possibility of a “choice” Signified by the phrase “if possible” –> mentioning a lookout for ‘ choice’ by the phrase ‘that this Cup could be removed’ —> so, the ‘consideration’ of “choice” —> followed by the “decision in action” taken is the ‘free’ part in “Christ’s Will” or likewise in the free will or creation’s will considerations as it is clearly written.
Regarding “all” steps of a man are ordered by the Lord in Jeremiah 10:23, it’s simple because God’s Will is executed on earth in two ways namely, “He has Mercy or Hardens” as it is written:
“So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.” (Romans 9:18)
So,
His Mercy = at such times we act according to His Will
He Hardens = He does “not” apply His Mercy (kinda like God removes His Influence upon them) = they naturally go toward evil without His Good Influence remaining as discussed prior too.
Also, arguing from “special cases in Scripture” proves either one of the above possibility & that’s how His Will Works. It doesn’t prove anything beyond that.
Comments:
1) A Common Fallacy – Arguing Generally (Or Generalising from special case Scripture)
With regards to ‘does such special example quoted proves for “all” cases”?,
No
please consider
A “special case” where “God intervened” (as I kept repeating prior stressing on this point too) is different & cannot be Generalised because examples exist where God works either way in a case by case basis.
The examples in verses for case study you quote is true & Works for those cases where God intervened. It doesn’t apply to all cases as God allows evil too & He doesn’t immediately act against it (for if so, there would be no evil in existence) but rather would Judge it later as He Wills (though in some special cases, the Judgment is seen in earth itself too). He decides case by case.
But to use the above and claim that it applies likewise to “all” cases of ‘similar events’ is the common logical Fallacy.
For example, just because God stopped the mouth of lions for Daniel, it doesn’t mean that In “all” or “any similar” situation of believers being thrown into a lion’s den for account of their faith, God ‘must’ save them ‘likewise’ too.
God may choose to save or not save as He Wills with regards to “all” events on earth. Since it could happen either way, we cannot justify a “general” Law of ‘how we think God’s Will works’ in “all” cases (that’s the simple but common logical flaw in your argument).
To prove yourself right, if following your logic of quoting Scripture is correct, —> by doing the ‘same’ acts to you as it was done to Joseph –> it must result in either you being a ruler of a kingdom or something good out of it, right? —> not necessarily as you could die in the hands of your captors without God bringing about any further good “on earth” –> if He Wills, He could save you “on earth” or bring about “some good out of it too” —> so, ‘either way’ (choice) is possible as “God Alone determines His Choice” to do whatever He wants case by case as Scripture reveals when ‘all’ other Scripture is read & understood’ correctly.
2) Wrongly Quoting Christ
Christ is Perfect, creation is” not”. Christ is “Uncreated” & through Him ‘all creation’ was ‘made’.
Christ is the Perfect Example of obeying & fulfilling all God’s Will.
To quote that just because Christ made the “Choice” Signified by “nevertheless let Thy Will be Done” —> it does “not” prove that in ‘all’ cases, creation chooses likewise —-> a Logical Fallacy simply because ‘creation is not Perfect like Christ’ —> the rest of creation in a similar situation may find some creature “choosing against the Father’s Will” (which is obvious with the amount of sin-choices made around us & by us too, proving this).
If quoting that just because Christ’s “final say” means “He opted for God’s Will” —> and thus, it must be so for “any creation’s will” (it’s a Logical Fallacy as described below):
How?
Simply because to argue that “All creation’s will” would do the same as Christ, is to imply that all creation right now in every decision is also making the ‘same’ decisions as Christ. Which is completely absurd as many decisions (“actions”) prove that the ‘sins we commit are of our own’ & ‘Christ would not have done those sins’.
So, we cannot use Christ’s Perfect example where He fulfilled ‘all’ God’s Will —> to prove that ‘all creation’s will is also fulfilling God’s Will ‘ —> such as ‘claiming a Rape or evil deed done’ as ‘creation is following the final say of God when doing this’ (rubbish! as we have discussed Earlier regarding ‘how evil is done’ by Creation commiting it “without God tempting creation to do evil in any way” as “it is written”):
“Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.” (James 1:13)
(xxxiv) How about Temptation and Evil?
1) Yes, evil happens and He is not happy.
But He doesn’t Act immediately. Thus He set a time to judge all these (Ecclesiastes 3:17).
And in Judgment and Restoration beyond that in the ‘end’, He achieves His Will to perfect creation (Romans 8:20 – 21).
2) God “allows*” Temptation (the ‘free will’ to choose on the creature determines their action next) but in His Faithfulness He also gives the ‘ability’ to fight the Temptation.
*(‘easei’ in Greek, 1 Corinthians 10:13)
It doesn’t contradict James 1:13 because God is not tempting (doing the Act of tempting in evil) but through Satan or one’s own desire to sin (Matthew 4:1, James 1:14), this happens & an evil act is done contrary to His Will.
As the verse below clearly explain “how” all “evil” Temptation verses are to be understood correctly, namely that He “allows”it and NOT that He tempts:
“No temptation has seized you, except what is common to man. And God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but will also provide with the temptation the escape, to be able to endure it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13)
“Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.” (James 1:13)
The verses agree and explain each other out perfectly.
3) Why the Confusion? Does God dictate every act ever done or has ordained Free will temporally?
It may not be mentioned in Scripture for those cases where God is not mentioned to Intervene.
I dare not say either way. And if Scripture doesn’t mention it in those cases, I don’t speculate. I leave it as it is as even Scripture doesn’t reveal either way.
But one day it will all be revealed whether God tested them in those cases or is it the other cases of them doing evil on Judgment Day.
4) Is “tempting” same as “testing”?
By our definition of usage (as follows, please consider to take into account James 1:13 & 1 Corinthians 10:13 together in ‘agreeing’ context):
So, in any cases where God “tested” anyone’s faith —> e.g. they enduring evil —> He rewards them later (Hebrews 11, Job story, Joseph Story ) –> His Intervention is mentioned.
So, James 1:13 in the above cases clearly implies God Intervening to Bring Good “despite” the “evil” done & not that He Willed the evil.
In the Abraham’s case, He gave tested Abraham and “also” stopped Abraham by sending an angel before Abraham could have sacrificed his son (proving this to be the ‘special cases’ where God intervened both in the ‘test’ & ‘didn’t allow the evil to be done’).
In ‘your rape case application’, this ‘special case’ does “not” apply since did “God test your rapist” by ‘speaking to him first’ (a condition not met, proving it is a different case in James 1:13 too).
(xxxv) How do we ‘understand evil’ then?
Firstly, a verse:
“In Him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of His (God’s) will,” (Ephesians 1:11)
1) What does it mean?
Does the verse above refer to or include ‘a rapist committing rape’ as part of God’s Plan?
Absolutely NOT!!
Please consider:
A Different Case
This verse refers to a “specific time” period and “purpose” done by “God only”
“for the administration of the fullness of the times, to bring together all things in Christ–the things in the heavens and the things upon the earth–” (Ephesians 1;10)
Time period = “fullness of the times”
Purpose = the ‘particular’ act of gathering all things in Christ
*it Talks of “God’s Action” only in quoted verses nothing to do with the ‘sin of rape done by a man’ (that’s not referred to in verses quoted)
2) When do the “times” (plural) in Ephesians 1:10 – 11 refer to?
The “times” which “God Acts” (His action alone) , only He knows.
The “times” I don’t know as only God knows as the verse doesn’t specify.
It seems to point to the “future” (indicated by “fullness”) and plural “times” (time period of Ages? Difficult to tell).
But the “acts” referred to in these verses in these “times” is “only by God Alone” (not creation’s will referred to here).
3) How about Predestination? How do we understand Predestination then?
He Predestined Free will (James 1:13 speaks of ‘evil NOT due to God’).
Our human inability to not being able to understand that doesn’t matter.
4) How does God remain Sovereign?
Yes His Action toward “all things” —-> despite creation’s evil & failures
He still Wills Sovereign to “gather all things” in “Christ” (His Act) as Ephesians 1:10 – 11 clearly states.
That is Why He “Alone” is Good.
5) How do we know that “free will” is Predestined by God on earth during a temporal limited time (vanity)?
I understand that God can Predestine free will too by acts “not” due To Him such as “evil” done as Described in James 1:13 “as it is written”.
God promises to liberate Creation from this “vanity” too.
6) Why?
So we learn that apart from Him, by having “free will” we cannot be perfectly good. We end up evil except if we remain in Him.
Thus, He saves us regardless in the “End” Till God becomes “all in all” (1 Corinthians 15:25 – 28)
(xxxvi) What are the Cause, Effect & Limitations of Free Will?
There is no absolute free will, yes
It’s allowed to exist within the bounds of human limitations & life on earth, yes.
But it is “free” with respect to creation’s choice to do it.
The Influence to “do evil” are there from “oneself’s heart” (a major cause, Matthew 15:18, ‘not’ from God’s Heart) to other causes too (such as the influence of others) but it is “never God” For “God does no evil nor tempts anyone with evil” (James 1:13).
God “allows” evil temptation but doesn’t author any of it (1 Corinthians 10:13) by Predestining Free Will or creation’s will to exist. Thus the effect of one creation or itself to do the sin becomes solely its action (James 1:15, John 8:44) when it makes the “influenced/uninfluenced” decision to sin (but God is ‘never’ the influencer in evil, James 1:13).
God Predestined creation to be able to ‘make such choices’ regarding Good and Evil proven by the choices we make which are not God’s Will (e.g. “our sins” & imperfections). If these choices for sin were of God’s Influence, it contradicts James 1:13 and hence, not true.
If a choice on the creature’s part didn’t exist, it would not be judged in the end for “evil”. That is the contradiction which proves ‘free will’ in choice exists on earth though it is “not” absolute being “vanity” (exists within limited effects, even to be judged later accordingly).
Foreknowledge doesn’t contradict free will (acts described to be given its time to be carried out by Man/creation’s choices in Ecclesiastes 3:1 – 10) but rather that God uses His Foreknowledge to act “later” during “Judgment” (Ecclesiastes 3:17) toward each act accordingly to bring about Restoration & Reconciliation as the “End” Purposes solving creation’s servitude of this “vanity” liberating it to “His Will Alone” eventually when “all creation” becomes “children of God” ((Romans 8:20 – 21)).
(xxxvii) But isn’t it written that God creates evil in verse below?
“That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me, I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS” (Isaiah 45:6-7)
Yes, and please consider a direct explanation below:
Create evil & Do Evil are two different things.
God did the former, not the latter according to James 1:13 seen together with Isaiah 45:6 – 7.
He Predestined choice in the Tree of knowledge of Good & Evil (created Evil in its knowledge)
Then gave freedom for man to “choose” on earth by Presdestining Free will (more accurately creation’s will as discussed).
The other thing is “Judgment” (commonly confused with ‘evil’) to which is rendered according to the malice done by Creation’s choice prior.
If the Cause for evil was God, God Won’t judge creation for it.
(xxxviii) Evil is seen in Judgment or when creation’s will chooses it by influence/without influence (but the Influence of Evil is never God as James 1:13 assures this).
Here’s an illustration of some Scriptural examples testifying to these distinctions of evil discussed prior which helps us understand the type of evil too (Judgment vs Creation’s Evil Choices by its will) and not mix these two distinct cases causing confusion.
Please consider:
Hardening described earlier as God Withdrawing His Good & Creation ends up following its own evil ways (e.g. Isaiah 63:17; that’s how He causes the stray by removing Himself from creation, hence creation needs “Reconciliation” to be set free from its “own evil”) which God eventually does by “His Will Alone” in Colossians 1:20.
Amos 3:6 is to be understood as ‘not’ God doing the evil (James 1:13 assures this) but that He “allows” it to be done (1 Corinthians 10:13) due to Judgment (e.g. 2 Samuel 24:1) or some creation’s will which decided to choose evil (or each other’s influence in their free will doing that evil though God “allowed” it without stopping nor judging it immediately as in Job 42:11, Lamentations 3:37 – 38).
Revelation 9:15 is a Judgment verse toward (the cause) of man having done ‘evil’ prior due to their “choice of evil” in “their own will” first.
If the “hardening” of God is not due to Him ‘removing His Good Influence’, there would be no need for Reconciliation of all things. Since Colossians 1:16, 20 testifies that Reconciliation is needed, this ‘removal of Himself from evil creation temporally due to its evil deeds by its own will’ must be true.
This “End” Purpose of “Reconciliation, Restoration & Making New” is His Theme using “Judgment” to ‘render to each according to its deeds too first’ (wicked are made for the day of evil, Proverbs 16:4 so that they may be Judged & broken to be ‘remade’ perfectly later).
(xxxxix) The No Free Will Fallacy
God Judges our free will choices
Some have found God’s Judgment & Reality difficult to cope. But regardless, evil is real & that’s why it seems difficult. God keeps evil at bay by sometimes intervening to Judge it strongly (to stop further evil) as the article below also mentions such ‘Judgment’:
Here are some further points toward 'any human opinion against it' (it doesn’t matter as The Bible nor the Judgment of God becomes wrong due to 'their weak opinions'):
If each of your arguments "against" what is "written" in "Scripture" is true, evil won't exist unless you mean God's Will includes evil Acts (contradicting James 1:13)
If you mean the God can't principle, it's a contradiction because there is nothing He can't do or allow. He won't intervene immediately is proof that He "allowed" a "vanity" of "evil" to exist in freedom on earth.
Evil is the example of 'choices & acts against His Will are allowed temporarily' (proving free will or creation's choice, due to lack of a better word) ----> the 'evil which He allows on earth during this temporal time of vanity' (freedom to do evil). It doesn't mean that it's free from any consequences but rather that He had appointed a time for Judging all of it too, Ecclesiastes 3:17.
The fact that God Judges evil proves that It is NOT His Will for that evil though He allowed that evil to happen in this "vanity" but has promised deliverance from all these temporal vanity into His Good Will after Judgment, during the Remaking of all things New too (Romans 8:20 - 21).
Your points don't agree with "Reality".
How? Please consider the following simple proof:
Look at an ant. You can decide to kill it or let it live. This logic works because the ant could be a person or baby too. Notice that you are "free" to "choose" what to do?
That's the "Choice" of freedom God has granted on "earth". Most likely God doesn't appear immediately to stop you. I am not advocating murder or a perverted thought.
I am explaining that the ones who do such evil (e.g. killing that baby) is to whom God Judges later & in the OT instances allowed the killing of such babies too (their offspring, who could be tainted with such intents too though unknown to us or as the "equal" of Judgment), that's it.
I will stick to "what is written" because that's the truth. The opinions by which you 'think' it should be done (in a different way), never occurred in history meaning it's disproven empirically (does not apply to reality, remains a fantasy). I'm not interested in theories but "what is written only".
In the New Testament, He nullifies the "hate your enemy part" (so we cannot practice such Judgment under the New Covenant), I.e. The "time for hate" is over) ----> by saying "But I tell you..." (this phrase in verse below) indicates 'no' more practicing 'hate your enemy' ----> but only, "Love your enemies"
"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those persecuting you," - Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:43 - 44)
It's the same God & the OT writers and those who practiced those Judgments did "not" find it wrong, I rather trust their "inspired" writing over 'any opinions' sticking to 'what is written' which explains "empirically" the 'reality' around us with regards to 'evil & equal Judgment upon it eventually too, Isaiah 3:11'.
Truth is not dependent upon our ability to stomach it nor on any opinions which speaks 'against the written verses such as Psalm 137:9'; your explanation must agree to the verses such as these too & calling or implying OT inspired writers as wrong is not acceptable at all. Scripture is the Final Authority always.
.
.
.
(xxxx) Reality Check: Against Judgment?
If any Christian thinks that God allowing such punishments through His Judgments on earth or in Hell to be cruel toward the 'evil' done 'first', here's a "Reality" for him to consider:
Imagine that it was "your baby" or "daughter" Who was "raped" or "killed first".
Would you easily forgive the offender or demand Judgment of God? (even the righteous blood of Abel demands Vindication till today as revealed in the Book of Revelation though on 'earth', Cain seems to have been forgiven).
God's Judgment meets 'perfectly' according to the 'level of cruelty done' either on earth or in Hell or both:
"Woe to the wicked--it will go badly for them, for what they have done will be done to them." (Isaiah 3:11)
If God forgives someone on earth, it's His Choice. But God can choose not to forgive too:
"and also for the innocent blood which he shed, for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood; and the LORD would not forgive." (2 Kings 24:4)
"For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears." (Hebrews 12:17)
"For if we sin willingly after we are to receive the knowledge of the truth, no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment and fury of fire being about to devour the adversaries.
Anyone having set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercies on the basis of two or three witnesses.
How much worse punishment do you think will he deserve, the one having trampled upon the Son of God, and having esteemed ordinary the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and having insulted the Spirit of grace?
For we know the One having said, “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge His people.”
it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:26 - 31)
You may 'not' care for the Judgment of the innocent blood shed "first" (evil done), but God is certain to Judge it or Forgive it as "He Wills" beyond 'your opinions against His matching Judgment'.
Yes, you may not bother about the "suffering your raped or killed daughters" & may 'claim to forgive easily', but God Will have the Final Say whether to 'Judge & Forgive' the offender or 'Forgive without Judging' as He sees perfectly:
"What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?" (Romans 9:22)
"So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy." (Romans 9:16)
"So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires." (Romans 9:18)
P/S:
Speaking in human terms please consider seriously the following statement for "those Christians" who think that "God shouldn't Judge at all":
'Let your daughters be raped & killed and then you can preach your forgiveness without Judgment; if you do, that proves your perversion as it is written':
"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!" (Isaiah 5:20)
*Only those truly repentant are Saved without Judgment and God decides each case and He makes "no" mistakes.
.
.
(xxxxi) What about more details regarding the Judgment of God?
Example: How about the babies in Psalm 137:9?
Reply: I have no problem with God's Judgment at all. If He allowed it, it must be right.
Beyond that, God Will answer because He only mentions it's Judgment Allowed. The full details are not mentioned and I don't speculate. I take it by faith that God is Right.
One Day, you can ask Him because I cannot provide an explanation on details which are not given or hinted in Scripture.
(xxxxii) Did He appoint the "Time" or "Event" in Ecclesiastes 3?
He appointed the time for the event as it is written in verse below:
"There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven--" (Ecclesiastes 3:1)
It's "time" (or 'season') ---> which God appoints ---> for 'every' act of creation (by its choice, free will) to be 'carried out'. Yes God "allowed" the "Time" for 'all these' (it doesn't automatically prove that He approves 'all' deeds done as He will Judge each dead later as clearly written few verses later in Ecclesiastes 3:17)
"I said to myself, "God will JUDGE both the righteous man and the wicked man," for a time for every matter and for every deed is there." (Ecclesiastes 3:17)
If it was all God's Will (as sometimes erred in popular exegesis), 'no' Judgment is needed. Since Judgment exists toward each deed, it proves that creation's will (its free will) to choose evil or good exists and that God Will judge it for its decisions and actions done accordingly.
In short,
A Mystery of Time & Will
1) Time for Free Will or creation's will to be exercised (Ecclesiastes 3:1 - 10)
2) Time for Judgment later (Ecclesiastes 3:17)
3) Time for the Mystery of God's Will perfecting creation eventually by His Will in the "age" Making "Everything Beautiful" eventually despite creation's failures (Ecclesiastes 3:11)
(xxxxiii) But doesn't God do evil as mentioned in Isaiah 45:7?
Isaiah 45:7 mentions that God creates evil and not that He does Evil. Since this verse speaks of the 'creation of evil' (for man it is the Adam & Eve story, context), together with other verses (in principle) relating to it, please consider the following edifying explanation:
Here's the verse:
"I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)
He "does" (the word 'do') the "creation of evil" (Example: knowledge evil found in the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil & the free will to choose evil as Eve chose to disobey at the beginning too).
He doesn't "do" that "evil" of 'disobedience' through any creation (He binds them up to disobedience due to their free will choice first as in the case of Adam & Eve to choose evil, where binding means continually letting them be held by the disobedience which they chose; and only chooses to release those upon whom He has Mercy allowing the others to remain hardened as a consequence of their own evil choice 'first' together with due to passed on effect of knowledge of evil through Adam & Eve too, that's how I understand Romans 11:32 & Romans 9:18; yes, eventually He will have Mercy on ALL releasing ALL creation too, Romans 8:20 - 21 as it is written Before/After/During JUDGMENT as Romans 11:32 also implies together with other verses such as John 5:24, 1 Peter 4:6 and James 2:13 respectively).
Consider again please (with emphasis):
"I form the light and CREATE darkness: I make peace and CREATE evil: I the Lord DO all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)
He created the Providence for Evil to exist in the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. He gave free will through choice as Eve decided to choose evil after Satan's persuasion and ate of that fruit. God didn't influence Eve to do that Evil nor did that Evil through Eve (that's how to understand Isaiah 45:7 with respect to the beginning of the creation of evil itself in man through Eve as it is written).
This agrees perfectly with principles of free will in choice on earth by Creation's actions & influences only toward each other such as that God "allows" Evil on earth (1 Corinthians 10:13), but God is not the author of evil, nor is He the influencer nor the Doer of Evil (James 1:13) & that only 'creation is responsible for each of its own evil done & its own free will choice ultimately played the most significant role in it beyond influence causing Judgment on both the creation that acted the evil (Example Adam & Eve) & the influencer (Satan too)' agreeing to (James 1:14) as well.
Be wise, fear God.
God is "Strong" to "Judge" too.
Peace to y'all
Hope it clarifies
Peace to you
Blood of the Innocent vs The Blood of Christ
"And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth." (Revelation 18:24)
"When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also." (Revelation 6:9 - 11)
"But the LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground!" (Genesis 4:10)
"“For this reason also the wisdom of God said, ‘I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute,
so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation,
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.’
“Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering.” (Luke 11:49 - 52)
P/S: Judgment is NOT the End due to Christ's Blood Speaks a Better Word (God's Final Say proves His Unfailing Love in the End as it is written):
All human blood shed will demand God's Judgment as listed above.
However, it doesn’t end there as there is a Mysterious Hope in His Blood:
"Then Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."..." (Luke 23:34)
Only Christ's Perfect Blood spoke "the Better Word" asking "Forgiveness" For 'ALL His Enemies' as Scripture below clearly records:
"and to Jesus, the Mediator of a New Covenant, and to the Sprinkled Blood, which speaks Better than the blood of Abel." (Hebrews 12:24)
Till He "Reconciles" All things (context: "all created things" as defined in Colossians 1:16 first, context) as "it is written" in verse below too (please note the Word His "Blood" too):
"For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him." (Colossians 1:16)
"and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace by the blood of His cross through Him, whether the things on the earth or the things in the heavens." (Colossians 1:20)
Mystery of the Magi of the East
"Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying,
“Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him. (Matthew 2:1 - 2)
Wise Men who seek Christ the Lord
The First & Last Prophecy Regarding the Blessed Lamb of God
"The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world." (John 1:29)
This Great Prophecy (above) was uttered by the Forerunner of the Blessed Messiah Himself, John the Baptist & Its Fulfillment is into the ends of the Ages itself till 'all' Sin of the Whole World is Removed from All Creation by His Act on His Cross:
"and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." (1 John 2:2)
I call it the First & Last Prophecy Regarding Christ because it's from the 'Foundation of the World' itself that the "Lamb" was Slain (Beginning of Time, Revelation 13:8) to The Very End of the Ages (End of Time as Revealed in the Book of Revelation) where "The Lamb of God" (Revelation 14:10) being present with those tormented in the Lake of Fire too, (e.g. the ones from Revelation 13:4 - 8 & Revelation 13:13 - 17 punished in Revelation 14:9 - 11) as 'it is written'.
"All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain." (Revelation 13:8)
"For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you." (1 Peter 1:20)
"And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth." (Revelation 5:6)
I believe that by "Slain", Christ has been sharing the "Pain" of any creation which is in "sin" (including the pain of evil inflicted or Judgment or punishment rendered), He "bears" it "all" Mysteriously to "Heal" them through it One Day:
"and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed." (1 Peter 2:24)
His "Ransom" applies to "All" because:
"Who did give Himself a ransom for all -- the testimony in its own times --" (1 Timothy 2:6)
He Will Fill All Things with Himself as it is written:
A Great Prophecy to the very End of this World (in picture) Where He will Fill "all things" Till God becomes "all in all" (1 Corinthians 15:25 - 28), All Creation delivered from its Vanity (of evil, Romans 8:20 - 21) eventually Perfected into the "Will of God Alone" as The Gospel Cry Declares:
"And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation." (Mark 16:15)
He is that Great Light Himself Who Will Fill "all things" (the Whole World) at the 'ends of the Ages':
"He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things." (Ephesians 4:10)
"which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all." (Ephesians 1:20 - 23)
'Blessed Saviour of the World'
P/S: 'What If?' (I dare consider this possibility because 'no' verse contradicts it in principle and the quoted verses 'agree' to it in principle too though I cannot prove it)
According to some NDEs (Near Death Experiences), they felt 'no pain' when they died. So, if they could be given the 'Grace of God' of feeling 'no pain' when they died, why couldn't have God granted it upon those babies killed under His Judgment Sentences (it may 'not' apply to men slaughtering babies in an evil way but only toward cases where He sanctioned such Judgments)?
I think that it is "possible" though we have "no" verse to prove it.
Please consider:
Regarding babies killed under His Judgment (e.g. Psalm 137:9, 1 Samuel 15:2 - 4), what if 'those babies' never felt any pain as God made it such (by Him absorbing all that pain as the "Lamb who was Slain" - Mystery) when they were slaughtered for the evil due to their parents 'first' but these things are "hidden" ('kept secret') till that Day of Judgment when He reveals it? Possible:
"Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God." (1 Corinthians 4:5)
"For nothing is hidden that will not become evident, nor anything secret that will not be known and come to light." - Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 8:17)
'I felt no pain eventually because the Lamb of God took it all upon Himself' - Anonymous
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven." - Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 18:10)
"But this is that the word having been written in their Law may be fulfilled: 'They hated Me without cause.'" - Lord Jesus Christ (John 15:25)
"so that it might be fulfilled that having been spoken by the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things hidden from the foundation of the world." - Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 13:35)
"For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God." (1 Corinthians 2:10)
"It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter." (Proverbs 25:2)
.
.
.
.
D
E
E
P
E'
R
.
.
.
Free Will - How about All the steps of a man are ordered by the LORD?
1) Question
Are you saying that man has ‘boundless’ free will?
Reply:
Of course not!
Their ‘definition’ remains ‘their definition’ (those who claim it as ‘boundless’). We use that same term ‘free will’ to mean ‘will of creation’ because it’s easily identified due to its popular rendering in theological literature. However, our definition of free will is as per the lengthy articles below too:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/great-lesson-faithful-job/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/god-evil-judge-apostle-pauls-case/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/mystery-free-will/
Thus, the classical definition of free will points to that 'boundless' assumption to which I DON’T agree at all.
As I have shared, the 'free' in free will when I use it is restricted as per the lengthy discussion on one of my posts earlier (listed above).
The how can it be free?
It's similar to the "free" in "freedom" but bound by the Law. For example, we are "free" to do what we want in a country ('freedom') but that doesn't mean that it is right and any transgression against the Law remains wrong. Such 'freedom' being restricted with respect to the 'Law of God' is what I meant. And thus we are held accountable for our wrong actions accordingly.
Regarding man not being free with regards to influence when exercising his will, I agree also!
Influence of Evil is NOT from God (please read James 1:13 carefully to understand this).
Influence to do evil exists (yes, but it’s from other creation, Satan or Spiritual wickedness in the spirit realm, Ephesians 6:12, Psalm 82 & 2 Corinthians 4:4 – the source of evil by their exercising of their will with “no” influence from God either upon them, James 1:13, John 8:44, 1 John 3:12).
Influence doesn’t eliminate creation’s responsibility over its own actions to do evil because it’s not allowed beyond its choice to do it (1 Corinthians 10:13) assures this always though we cannot see it & those who do the evil always lie (or claim otherwise) to make them look helpless or innocent so they can blame it on God or their mental illness (I was such before too) just to escape the consequence of their actions deceiving those who believe them. The case for Adam & Eve with the influence of Satan during the fall clearly proves all these.
2) The Role in Evil (Influencer versus Doer)
Here are two example verses for the ‘influence’ of evil part (please note that neither of these verses point to God as the source of evil but rather “their OWN actions/nature/actions accordingly” – God in His Power “CREATED Evil” [Isaiah 45:7] to be able to have THESE CHARACTERISTICS as Holy Scripture clearly states ‘as it is written’ explaining the “restricted” part of ‘our definition of free will or creation’s will accordingly’ perfectly agreeing with James 1:14 & 1 Corinthians 10:13 too – emphasis mine throughout):
- Source of Influence of Evil"You are of your father the devil, and you want to DO the DESIRES of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his OWN nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 8:44, NASB)
“For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.” (Ephesians 6:12)
“A psalm of Asaph. God has taken His place in the divine assembly; He judges among the gods:" (Psalm 82:1)
“in whom the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, so as for not to beam forth the illumination of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” (2 Corinthians 4:4)
- The Doer of Evil
Man still has his role to play in the ‘evil free will choice’ beyond that influence as well (accountability because God being Faithful does NOT ALLOW evil through influence or temptation to be ‘beyond a person’s ability to decide’ nor ‘without a way of escape’, 1 Corinthians 10:13 either physically or in the tempted man’s ability to say ‘no’ to evil; this varies from individual to individual but God Promises such in ALL cases. Hence, the Judgment upon any evil act is proportionate to their “role” in evil either by the Influencer or the Doer respectively as the case of Adam & Eve with respect to the CREATION of EVIL, Isaiah 45:7 also so clearly testifies agreeing to all these verses perfectly):
“Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because HIS OWN ACTIONS were EVIL and his brother's were righteous.” (1 John 3:12, NIV)
“But a MAN is tempted, being drawn away and being enticed by the OWN desire. Then desire having conceived, gives birth to sin; and sin having become fully grown, brings forth death.” (James 1:14 – 15)
“Let no one being tempted say, “I am being tempted by God.” For GOD is UNABLE to be tempted by evils, and He Himself tempts NO ONE.” (James 1:13)
“No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is Faithful, Who will NOT ALLOW you to be TEMPTED BEYOND what YOU are ABLE, but with the temptation WILL PROVIDE the way of ESCAPE also, so that you will be ABLE to ENDURE it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13)
As apostle James himself warns not to be ‘misled’ by ‘any thinking otherwise’ after explaining ‘how’ sin occurs in verses quoted above:
“Do not be MISLED, my beloved brothers.” (James 1:16)
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE evil: I the LORD do all these things.” (Isaiah 45:7)
Thus we will be ‘held responsible’ (as God will judge each case work/act accordingly) as it is written as well that:
“I said in mine heart, God shall JUDGE the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.” (Ecclesiastes 3:17)
Any authority God places over us is only valid or are justified as an authority with respect to the GOOD done by him only as the verse below clearly testifies (often wrongly quoted to claim the common fallacy that ‘as though God approves these authorities for their ‘evil’ acts too’ (a different case) to which Holy Scripture does NOT point at all! Please note the word ‘GOOD’ found in verse below – meaning these authorities which God allowed are only exercising God’s Will to execute wrath when it is toward evil only and not justifying their evil acts whenever they FAIL to follow God’s Will at times either – A CONTEXT clearly implied by the words found in verse below):
“for it is a minister of God to you for GOOD. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings WRATH on the one who PRACTICES EVIL.” (Romans 13:4)
The Act of Doing Good is due to Good only and the above all applies to believers as well:
Please note that in verse below, God's Will in our lives as believers too ---> only refers to the 'GOOD works' part ----> NOT our sin (evil),---> regarding sin (evil), that's our own free will with influence from 'demonic spiritual influence' (a temporal 'vanity' which will end when He sets us free completely one day as Romans 8:20 - 21 declares too)
"For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do GOOD works, which God PREPARED in ADVANCE for us to DO" (Ephesians 2:10)
3) In light of all these, how do we explain ALL steps of a MAN are ordered by the LORD in this verse?
“The steps of a man are established by the LORD, And He delights in his way.” (Psalm 37:23)
Or this verse:
“A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.” (Proverbs 16:9)
The STEPS of a MAN are established or directed here meaning that the MAN has been given the CHOICE & ABILITY to choose between Good & Evil by God in Advance (agreeing to 1 Corinthians 10:13 quoted earlier & even Deuteronomy 30:19 too):
“"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have SET before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So CHOOSE life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,” – God (Deuteronomy 30:19)
The STEPS here does NOT mean that a man’s ACTIONS are pre-determined (as Deuteronomy 30:19 clearly proves that God gives a CHOICE in ALL cases) but that the CHOICES (referred to as STEPS in this verse) are PRE-DETERMINED.
Similarly, the word DIRECTED by God in the latter verse means that God gives sufficient ABILITY for one to be ABLE to CHOOSE between Good & Evil & even always provides a way of ESCAPE too (with respect to the ‘one who is about to commit the evil & not the victim’) in a FAIR way as 1 Corinthians 10:13 clearly describes this beautifully!
The Etymology of the Word for STEPS itself confirms this simply because when you take a STEP, did you notice that you can walk anywhere you like as YOU CHOOSE? This PROVES that CHOICE given is ‘what is referred to’ here and NOT action (proving ‘free will’ under the definition discussed prior, again).
The Etymology for the word DIRECTS itself agrees and points to being ‘told’ in advance ‘which is Good’ through the revelation of His Law and Conscience too (e.g. Adam & Eve TOLD in ADVANCE by God to ‘not eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil’ agreeing to all these literal exegesis ‘as it is written’). Please consider:
----> The Law Part verse <----
“For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.” (Romans 2:12 – 13)
----> The NO Law Part verse <----
“For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.” (Romans 2:14 – 16)
4) So, how do we understand which STEPS to CHOOSE?
“A man's steps are determined by the LORD, so how can anyone understand his own way?” (Proverbs 20:24)
Reply:
The part where ‘He delights in his way’ is God looking forward to ‘delight’ in the way a man chooses as the verses below prove that God is only DELIGHTED when a man CHOOSES a STEP which is according to ‘His Will’:
- God is Delighted when a Man CHOOSES the STEP for the Honest Scales ONLY and NOT for when another man chooses the dishonest scales at all (implying that God does NOT delight in ‘either steps’ as some have erred in quoting the ‘DELIGHT’ aspect linking these verses, let Scripture interpret Scripture!):
“A false balance is an abomination to the LORD, But a just weight is His DELIGHT.” (Proverbs 11:1)
- Similarly, God is pleased and blesses those who walk in God’s Ways (implying a CHOICE made on their part too under God’s Influence for He influences EVERY GOOD ONLY, agreeing to James 1:17) as these verses testify as well:
“Aleph. How blessed are those whose way is blameless, Who walk in the law of the LORD.” (Psalm 119:1)
“EVERY good act of giving and EVERY perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of shifting.” (James 1:17)
- The secret to CHOOSE the CORRECT STEPS (avoiding sinful paths & so that sin doesn’t rule over us) is to OBEY His Word (as revealed in Written Scripture) as ‘it is written’:
“Order my steps in Thy Word: and let not any iniquity (sin) have dominion over me.” (Psalm 119:133)
- God is Merciful DESPITE our falls in choosing the wrong steps and even falling into sin (God chooses to whomever He wants to have Mercy, His Free Will choice):
“Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.” (Psalm 37:24)
“For He (God) says to Moses: "I will show mercy to whom I may show mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I may have compassion." (Romans 9:15)
“In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.” (Job 1:22, ESV)
P/S 2:
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
D
E
E
P
E
S
T
.
.
.
.
Didn't Job receive evil from God?
Firstly, a typical ‘atheistic’ logic was hurled at Job when he ‘lost everything’:
“Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die!” (Job 2:9)
Job’s Astonishingly Wise Reply:
“But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept evil (adversity)?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.” (Job 2:10)
Question 1
Isn’t God responsible for the evil done to Job as even Job seems to hint that in Job 2:10?
Reply 1
Job is not blaming God nor is he claiming that ‘God is responsible’ for the ‘evil’ faced by him in Job 2:10 ----> signified by the phrase “in all this Job did NOT sin with his lips”.
His wife’s ‘interpretation of evil’ (Job 2:9) is a typical prevalent one where ‘they assume that God CAUSED or DID that evil (to Job in this case)’.
Job is wise and thus did NOT succumb to his wife’s ‘own fallacious logic’.
When Job replied that we shall “accept evil” as well from God, what did he mean?
- Job meant that God “allows” evil (Job 2:6) agreeing to (1 Corinthians 10:13)
“So the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, he (Job) is in your power (Satan), only spare his life.” (Job 2:6)
“No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13)
- Thus Job ‘accepts’ the evil done to him ‘wrongly’ by Satan (Job 4:7 as Satan decided to “DO” that evil to Job, NOT God):
“Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.” (Job 2:7)
- Satan even tried to “tempt God” to do that “evil” to Job earlier too, but God did NOT do:
“The LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause.” Satan answered the LORD and said, “Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has he will give for his life. “However, put forth Your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh; he will curse You to Your face.” (Job 2:3 – 5)
- Why did God “allow” the Evil to Job?
His Foreknowledge that Job will come out victorious and God Will bless him greatly for it for ‘enduring the evil’:
“The LORD restored the fortunes of Job when he prayed for his friends, and the LORD increased all that Job had twofold” (Job 42:10)
“Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.” (James 1:12)
“For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.” (1 Peter 2:20)
“For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.” (1 Peter 3:17)
“Suffer hardship with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.” (2 Timothy 2:3)
“And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,” (2 Timothy 2:24)
- The only human opinion that matters in this case ‘regarding the evil done to him’ despite ‘Job being faithful’ (a unique case) is that of Job himself and this is what ‘Job says’:
“‘Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?’
“Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand,
Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.” (Job 42:3)
“I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear;
But now my eye sees You;
Therefore I retract,
And I repent in dust and ashes.” (Job 42:5 – 6)
“Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.” (Job 1:22)
- How about women and children being killed or by “evil” done to them?
That’s a different case altogether.
*If it’s the ‘same’ case as Job, they will give you an answer one day on Judgment Day (as Job’s reply testifies too) ---> with regards to whether the ‘evil done to them should be allowed or not’ under the “condition” that ‘they had been faithful’ (no other human opinions, such as those belonging to you and I matters, as in the case of Job too).
** If it is a different case from that of Job (e.g. the condition of ‘being faithful to God’ is not there, example: people serving ‘their own gods’ and not the LORD), ‘their own gods’ whom ‘they serve’ did ‘those evil’ to them (So, God is NOT responsible for it as ‘a man reap what he sows’ Galatians 6:7 even with regards to the ‘wrong gods whom they serve whether knowingly or unknowingly, one is responsible ultimately for their own actions’ --- as the verse below clearly states, ‘such will think that they are serving the true God’) :
“You are doing the works of your father." "We are not illegitimate children," they answered. "Our only Father is God Himself." – Lord Jesus Christ (John 8:41)
“You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 8:44)
*** Then there’s the case of Judgment where such evil is allowed due to “their own sins” or evils done first (though it may not be written in Scripture but will be revealed on Judgment Day) as these verses clearly state too (the ‘Principle’ never changes):
“"Behold, I will bring evil upon you, and will utterly sweep you away, and will cut off from Ahab every male, both bond and free in Israel;” (1 Kings 21:21)
God is Perfectly logical as He only “allows” evil in such cases as long as the persons remain unrepentant (His Foreknowledge) and stops the Judgment if one repents (in ‘Principle’ again):
“"Do you see how Ahab has humbled himself before Me? Because he has humbled himself before Me, I will not bring the evil in his days, but I will bring the evil upon his house in his son's days."” (1 Kings 21:29)
****Judgment is requested by the blood of the babies (or women and children) who died “first” in such acts toward the ‘babies & women’ died among the ‘perpetrators of evil’ (God “allows” such ‘equal’ Judgment to be carried out accordingly; To His Foreknowledge, He must have allowed it since these ‘evil babies’ of those who practice such ‘first’ [please note the word ‘FIRST – added for emphasis’ in verses below] & these ‘babies’ may do the same one day toward others too; Proof? Their ancestors who have been ‘babies earlier’ have been ‘doing these same evil acts of slaying the babies & women of their enemies FIRST before all these as well’):
““Thus says the LORD of hosts, ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did (FIRST) to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt. ‘Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”(1 Samuel 15:2 – 3)
“O daughter of Babylon, doomed to be destroyed,
blessed shall he be who repays you
with what you have done to us (FIRST)!
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones
and dashes them against the rock!” (Psalm 137:8 – 9)
“How horrible it will be for the wicked! Disaster will strike them. What they have done will be done to them.” (Isaiah 3:11)
Question 2
If that’s the case, why not God stop all the evil by Judging them likewise?
Reply 2
God “allows” free will to be exercised (Ecclesiastes 3:1 – 10) but is certain to Judge eventually the rest of the cases, yes (Ecclesiastes 3:17).
God “allows evil” in “His Judgments” as the verses below refer to ‘this case only’ (context) when “He exercises it personally” (It’s “evil” upon them with regards to “Judgment” according to their ‘level of cruelty which they have done upon others or each other too’) as the verses below reveals in ‘Principle’ perfectly:
““But evil will come on you
Which you will not know how to charm away;
And disaster will fall on you
For which you cannot atone;
And destruction about which you do not know
Will come on you suddenly.” (Isaiah 47:11)
“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6)
Amos 3:6 refers to the “evil which God does” with regards to “equivalent Judgment” in cruelty allowed ---> signified by the phrase “trumpet be blown in a city” & “people being afraid” indicating “Judgment upon evil”.
If Amos 3:6 refers to God ‘allowing needless evil’ done by creation (a different case), not ‘all’ the people would be ‘afraid’ simply because the “righteous remain bold” (disqualifying this verse to imply that case altogether by not ignoring the context of the ‘other words’ found within this ‘same’ verse too):
“The wicked flee when no one is pursuing, But the righteous are bold as a lion.” (Proverbs 28:1)
“Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.” (Proverbs 23:4)
“The LORD is for me; I will not fear; What can man do to me?” (Psalm 118:6)
“"And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.” (Revelation 12:11)
Here’s a deep hidden wisdom regarding this (simple really if understood):
God “only allows” direct “evil Judgment” (referring to this case only) through calamities or ‘direct Judgments’ as discussed earlier too if and only if ‘there was NO righteous person left among them’ as ‘it is written’ in verse below (and God does NOT change from this ‘Principle’ either):
“Then he said, “Oh may the Lord not be angry, and I shall speak only this once; suppose ten are found there?” And He said, “I will not destroy it on account of the ten.” As soon as He had finished speaking to Abraham the LORD departed, and Abraham returned to his place.” (Genesis 18:32 – 33)
““The righteous man perishes, and no man takes it to heart; And devout men are taken away, while no one understands. For the righteous man is taken away from evil,” (Isaiah 57:1)
Abraham understood that and did ‘not’ bargain further to the LORD for sparing Sodom.
Likewise in the New Testament, the verse below clearly points to this ‘same principle’ that God will not allow by His own Judgment an evil that destroys the ‘righteous together with it’ (God’s Principles in Judgment reveal these and God does NOT change):
“And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ “But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. ‘ALLOW both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’ – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 13:28 – 30)
God doesn’t kill any of the righteous with “His Judgment sentences”. The ‘righteous are only killed via unfair causes due to another creation’s free will including man or the spiritual wickedness’. Examples:
“They hate him who reproves in the gate, and they abhor him who speaks the truth.” (Amos 5:10)
“The wicked spies upon the righteous And seeks to kill him.” (Psalm 37:32)
“he wicked plots against the righteous And gnashes at him with his teeth.” (Psalm 37:12)
Question 3
How about the evil done by creation needlessly such as rape, murder etc. toward the ‘relatively’ innocent victims?
This is a different case from the earlier ones aforementioned.
Firstly, no verse exists where God kills the righteous by His Own Will contradicting Matthew 13:28 – 30 and even Job 2:6 where ‘the righteous’ life is to be spared’. However, that doesn’t mean that the righteous are not killed because God “allowed” creation to exercise its will and will judge for the parts where they did wrong toward the righteous be it from men or ‘the gods’.
Likewise these ‘same men’ and ‘so called gods’ who exercised ‘evil or caused their influence’ to make ‘men sin purposely’ (such as in these cases) will be Judged accordingly as ‘it is written’ too in these verses:
“so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 23:35)
“And I heard the angel of the waters saying, “Righteous are You, who are and who were, O Holy One, because You judged these things; for they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. They deserve it.” And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.” (Revelation 16:5 – 7)
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven upon all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, suppressing the truth by unrighteousness,” (Romans 1:18)
“{A Psalm of Asaph.} God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.” (Psalm 82:1 – 2)
“I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.” (Psalm 82:6 – 7)
“For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.” (Ephesians 6:12)
Conclusion:
No Mistakes by God and No excuses by any creation in His Judgments too:
“For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.” (Romans 1:19 – 20)
Finally,
Why do some hate God?
Because God's ascribes "their evil" to "their own self" ('their own choice to commit it') and they are looking to 'blame God' instead for it as "it is written" (a simple true logic):
"The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me, because I testify that its works are evil." - Lord Jesus Christ (John 7:7)
Please note the word “its works” in verse above meaning “evil” is by “its own works” (creation doing it & influencing each other only as God Predestined it by creating evil such even promising a Deliverance “despite” all these evil because He is Alone is Good, 1 Corinthians 15:25 – 28, Colossians 1:20, 1 John 4:14, Romans 8:20 – 21)
A common fallacy is to mix these cases up ending up in wrong theology ‘blaming God for some evil in some way’ (wrong) contradicting any these verses James 1:13 & Job 1:22 as mentioned in earlier posts. Peace
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
C
O
N
C
L
U
S
I
O
N
.
.
.
A Common Fallacy - Who has Resisted God's Will?
[Please do NOT read if you are weak hearted and not ready; it might change everything you believe. Read at your own risk, you have been WARNED]
"I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now." - Lord Jesus Christ (John 16:12)
'God Alone is Holy, God Alone is Good and I can see it with Holy Scripture' - Anonymous
(1) A Lesson from the Job Case
How to understand evil with regards to Job in a simple way with regards to verses?
There is NOT one Scripture In Job where God's Will is to bring that disaster upon Job (clearly written it is Satan's own act under his authority Job 2:7)
God "allowed" it agreeing to 1 Corinthians 10:13 (not equivalent to God approving it).
And God did NOT DO it though Satan tried to make God to strike Job first (Job 2:5)
'Where are your verses from Job 2 sir for each claim made?'
Are you going to say that God influenced Satan next sir, contradicting James 1:13?
And in the end just say that you didn't blame God for it contradicting Job 1:22?
I am not buying it.
I will stick to Job truthfully meaning Job 1:22.
P/S:
Sorry 🙏 I had to be harsh on my point to stress it and it's not directed toward you sir, but toward these thoughts which point to God being 'indirectly' the author of evil or such nonsensical claims or implications sugar coated with the popular term 'God's moral responsibility toward evil' (discussed next).
Fact is, any evil is not God's Will but an instance of a creature (or more)'s will acting against God's Will (in this case due to Satan's acts under his given authority agreeing to 2 Corinthians 4:4 too as he is given to be the 'god of this age', authority).
Please don't misunderstand, peace
(2) The Moral Responsibility Fallacy
'Don't use Scripture? Says who? That man? So, you want to follow the opinions of that man who disrespects Scripture? That feeble man who is against God? Suit yourself; as for me, I rather believe God's Holy Word over that man's opinions' - Unknown
I know that many of subscribe to the idea that 'God is morally responsible for any evil done in creation in some way' due to the influence of some well meaning Christian writers who argue that out. I disagree strongly because NO blame can be of God for ANY EVIL (due to Judgment or purposeless evil either) keeping the exegesis true to the verses below:
"Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God." (Job 1:22)
"Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone." (James 1:13)
Our exegesis must match all verses soundly for Scripture is our Guide and not the opinions of men where some of them later will discredit Scripture in some way (saying its not the final authority or that its not so clear, to many other such excuses when it does NOT agree to their opinions). I will choose Scripture over opinions or theories. I am not into defending traditions of men just because they are scholars.
Any fancy self-made explanation of scholars which does NOT explain out the initial Adam & Eve case with regards to "how evil works" as "God allows it" with "verses" testifying to 'each claim' made (the most ignored part in 'their opinions/theories') is most important and must NOT contradict the verse quoted above. At the end of their 'analysis', some of them often 'blame God' in a 'little' way' calling it 'His Moral responsibility' in some way for the evil done to which I will NEVER subscribe due to the verses above (Job 1:22 & James 1:13) contradicting it and that I can see how without any contradiction as explained in this post and previous posts when seen together.
Good luck on Judgment Day with "such blaming God indirectly-theories" as such talk "against Him" (harshly, even in a little way) is warned in Scripture (my duty is to warn against such exegesis & traditions of men is why I write this, I know that some of you will attack for credentials and all that, which does NOT matter; just the 'verses' and 'truth' presented consistently; each man will bear his OWN words especially with regards to 'what we say about God', it is SERIOUS):
"to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." (Jude 1:15)
Here is a "free" choice given 'with respect to your words too' especially those we say with regards to God:
"For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." - Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 12:37)
To argue any exegesis soundly from Scripture, we must go back to the first occurrence and the creation if evil itself for man ---> namely, the fall of Adam and Eve ---> as "it is written" (using verses that exist and not analyzing using each other's opinions).
Here are the facts:
(a) Existence of Free Choice in Creation's Will
Choice to obey or not obey is given prior to even eating the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil with God ordering the steps & directing in advance by saying, 'don't eat of it'
"but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’" (Genesis 3:3)
Please note the following:
(i) Choice to obey God's command by not eating that fruit = God's Will = Good
(ii) Choice not to obey God's Command by eating that fruit = NOT God's Will = Against God's Will = Evil
Evil is Evil and not 'God's moral responsibility'.
(b) Whose fault is it?
Evil of disobedience done - The perpetrators of the fall:
"The man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate.” (Genesis 3:3)
We can see that 'Adam puts the blame on':
God ---> signified by the phrase 'the woman You (God) gave to me'
Woman ---> 'she (Eve) gave me from the tree'
Adam is 'blind' to his OWN words accusing him ---> 'I ate' ---> to which he does NOT want to 'admit to his mistake as his CHOICE'
The "God wired my brain that way" implication by Adam seen in his blaming others for his OWN sin by CHOICE-attitude is NOT a valid "opinion" to Scripture simply because God's Response does NOT 'relieve Adam from his responsibility for his own actions' and God does NOT secretly 'make Adam fall' contradicting Job 1:22 and James 1:13 prior.
God made us FREE to CHOOSE between obeying God's Will and not obeying God's Will even BEFORE the Fall itself as Scripture testifies. God doesn't change with regards to this either, right? (this is the Initial-first state as 'how God created' us to HAVE CHOICE; He will NOT eliminate it and make us into robots either, but PERFECT us into obeying Him with CHOICE assuring "no" Fall again in the future, Matthew 24:21, 1 Corinthians 15:25 - 28, Romans 8:20 - 21, Isaiah 41:18 -,19, Revelation 21:4 as He makes 'ALL things New', Revelation 21:5)
What was God's Response to these 'accusations'? (this determines TRUTH as only God Speaks TRUTH ABSOLUTELY):
*God Judges the Serpent, Devil (INFLUENCER of Evil) for his CHOICE & ACTION to deceive Eve in this as Genesis 3:14-15 details it
*God Judges Eve (for her role as the first DOER of evil among men & her role as INFLUENCER upon Adam and for LISTENING to Satan instead of God) in Genesis 3:15-16 details that (also agreeing to 1 Timothy 2:14)
*God Judges Adam (for his role as the second DOER of evil among men and LISTENING to his wife instead of God) in Genesis 3:17 - 19 mentions too.
So, the golden question to the "it is God's Moral Responsibility Theory", where is 'God in Scripture or verses saying or implying that'? It does NOT exist. NO verse exists in Genesis where God 'takes moral responsibility over it' simply because it is NEVER His Fault but the Fault of 'those who played a role in that evil only' agreeing perfectly to Job 1:22 & James 1:13 as well.
We should NOT add to Holy Scripture in any way adding a "blame" no matter 'how little or big it might be upon God' who CREATED Evil (Isaiah 45:7) for Man in the Fall of Adam & Eve as described in verses above (Context, pertaining to the 'creation' of evil, literally) and we can see clearly "how" the EVIL ACTS was done by the CREATURE due to CHOICE ALLOWED (created by God) toward Evil. That's all.
Conclusion regarding the "Evil is God's Moral Responsibility too":
There is NO way any moral responsibility 'toward God' for evil can be deduced from ANY VERSE in the Fall of Adam & Eve. NOT one verse describing the Fall of Adam and Eve puts ANY blame or moral responsibility on God in ANY way. So that's how such theories are FALSE when there are NO verses blaming God in such LITTLE ways too.
Despite the evil done by creation during the Fall, God is Merciful as it is written:
"Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live to the age” (Genesis 3:22)
Why? Please consider this excellent explanation from ancient times:
”Wherefore also he drove him out of paradise and removed him far from the tree of life, not because He envied him the tree of life, as some dare assert, but because He pitied him and desired that he should not be immortal and the evil interminable and irremediable.” (St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Contr. Haer. iii. c. 23, § 6, Against Heresies).
(3) Creation's Will and God's Will - One Case or Many Cases?
Milk Doctrine & Meat Doctrine - Are we able to handle it? As apostle Paul echoes below with regards to 'doctrine':
"I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able," (1 Corinthians 3:2)
Not to mention we have modern day Christians completely "rejecting" New Testament Doctrine & "thinking" that they are "Spirit led" (contradicting 1 Corinthians 14:37, quoted below) under the pretext that 'it's too legalistic' and that 'we are not saved by it'. Truth is, we are 'NOT saved by doctrine' (only by Grace of God) but we can be "condemned" for NOT obeying His Doctrine (called "lawlessness" in Matthew 7:23 too, doctrine is vital to 'continue' with God 2 John 1:9) & miss out on 'greater' blessings in the 'Kingdom of the Heavens' (Matthew 5:19, Revelation 22:14)
"If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment." - apostle Paul's New Testament writings & Laws for the Church are the Commands of the Lord and not his opinions or options but are to be obeyed "as it is written", all of it (1 Corinthians 14:37)
"And then I will declare unto them, 'I never knew you; depart you from Me, those working lawlessness." - Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:23)
"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." - apostle John (2 John 1:9)
"Whoever then shall break one of the least of these commandments and shall teach others the same, he will be called least in the kingdom of the heavens; but whoever shall keep and shall teach them, he will be called great in the kingdom of the heavens." - Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:19)
"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the Tree of Life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." (Revelation 22:14, KJV)
(a) Fallacy - The 'God uses evil for good' error
This is a dangerous idea. Truth is, God does Good DESPITE evil (the meaning of "overcoming evil" by Him through “doing GOOD ONLY” and not that He is 'working hand in hand with evil' in some hidden way) as the verse below implies too (His Unchangeable Perfect Way):
"Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:21)
To Prove that fallacy above false absolutely, we need to find a case in Scripture (a counter example) where God could do the 'same' Good 'despite' that evil implying that He is NOT 'working through any evil'. Here's one, please consider:
Evil = David commits adultery with Bathsheba while Uriah (her husband) was still living (2 Samuel 11:2 - 5)
Evil = David causes the Murder of Uriah, a righteous man (2 Samuel 11:6 - 25)
Evil = David marries Bathsheba after the Murder of Uriah trying to make it look like he is marrying a widow, to try legalize everything (2 Samuel 11:26 - 27)
Beloved, these are NOT God's Will but evil. It's sad that some theologians still try to 'make it look like it was God's plan' (thinking that they are humbly defending God whilst doing so) whilst actually causing His Holy Name to be Profaned:
"As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." (Romans 2:24)
How do we know for certain that the Evil above is NOT God's Will?
God did NOT command David to do any of the above (it was David's OWN choice in his own will to do evil enticed by his OWN desire agreeing to James 1:14 - 15). Also, we know for certain that 'those evil' is NOT God's Will because God sent Prophet Nathan to JUDGE (and not approve) David for that Evil done prior as "it is written" in 2 Samuel 12:1 - 18.
Highlight:
"‘Why have you (David) despised the word of the LORD by doing evil in His sight? You have struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword, have taken his wife to be your wife, and have killed him with the sword of the sons of Ammon" (2 Samuel 12:9)
Please notice that the "blame" for the Evil done is entirely on David as written in verse above.
Judgment = “… Then the LORD struck the child that Uriah’s widow bore to David, so that he was very sick. “ (2 Samuel 12:15) ----> and the child died.
Does God use that Evil (of David marrying Bathsheba) to do Good?
No!
God brought forth Solomon (a “good”) through David & Bathsheba’s marriage “despite” that evil and NOT through that evil.
Because if the Fallacy that ‘God wanted to do Good through evil’ is ‘true’, then God could have caused the ‘first child’ (died earlier) of David & Bathsheba to be Solomon instead which did NOT happen. This means that God does NOT do Good thorough Evil but that God does Good “despite” evil as in this case of Solomon later and Judging the first child’s birth.
(b) Human Logic Time - Answering Atheists according to ‘their folly’
"For the choir director. A Psalm of David. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good." (Psalm 14:1)
"Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit." (Proverbs 26:5)
WARNING: This next section will be a bit harsh as I demonstrate answering “speaking in the flesh” as a ‘man’ (Galatians 5:17, Romans 6:19) ---> due to “my” OWN human weaknesses too (NOTHING to do with God) ---> God Will give His Own RIGHTEOUS Answer on that Day for each of our questions (you will get your chance to ask Him on Judgment Day)
Let’s Begin.
Atheist: How about that child that died in David’s case? Is it fair to that child?
Reply: You can have your problems with that as many do. I don't have any problems with it. We can ask the baby whether he preferred to be in heaven or should have been given the right to be born under such circumstances of sin when you meet him one day. Our opinions (you and I or others) do NOT matter. Let that child alone answer on that Day
Also, God removed that child by His Power, I don't think that child felt any pain. He just took its life away, He can do it that way.
Atheist: Didn’t he/she have free will to decide its existence? I rather not exist if I had the choice.
Reply: Your free will choice doesn't decide your birth nor your end, only your decisions on earth to obey or disobey God knowingly or unknowingly.
Atheist: What is the definition of Evil then?
Reply: God Will define evil as anything against His Will ---> Lawlessness which includes sin (Matthew 7:21). Judgment is different (it allows the same measure of evil done back to you, Isaiah 3:11).
Atheist: How about Rational Atheistic Logic to do things differently?
Reply: Rationality must explain reality correctly.
Reality consists of Good and Evil and God will judge the evil accordingly. So, let's relax and not jump ahead of time.
Atheism doesn't explain reality but yet people believe it (irrationality at its best).
How?
Your claims of 'rationality' of 'how it should be done' (as with other atheist opinions too) does NOT explain reality simply because 'it's not happening like that according to your logic'.
This means that empirical evidence around us proves atheism false. What we cannot see will be revealed later and God will be right (He keeps the best part explaining everything Perfectly One Day) and "each man will have the Praise of God" ---> "Willingly too" (nobody will disagree) as 'it is written':
"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God." (1 Corinthians 4:5)
Please don't be deceived in this temporal vanity 'whilst being not able to see' (be wiser beyond your sight sir)
Atheist: What about my right if I want to choose not to exist. Will God honour that?
Here's a gem of wisdom (rarely known):
Here's Rationality with Reality:
For 'your own existence' to be continued on Judgment Day, "perhaps" you may be given the 'choice' to 'eat your OWN words' namely, you said that 'if you had a choice, you would cease to exist'.
How?
Firstly, perhaps God will give you that "option" on that Day where you may "CHOOSE" to 'continue existing or annihilate yourself' & I will see (if God permits, for argument sake) whether you "CHOOSE" to 'continue to exist or not'.
Next
God remains Good as He opens His Heaven even for those who "break" His Commands (Matthew 5:19) too and I want to see you "CHOOSE" not to go in. It will be fun & after your choice are you going to still blame God for it?
No Worries, if you make the WRONG CHOICE and continue to reject Him (God assures in His Foreknowledge that this is temporal for those choosing that) as Heaven's gates are always open and He has assured you making that CHOICE to return to Him back too (Him influencing this GOOD). So, I will trust the Good God instead Willing all this. Peace to you sir
Atheist: How about these verses in Proverbs 19:21 and Romans 11:36 regarding His Will?
As discussed in earlier posts as well, these can be explained under the ‘simple logic’ that it refers to “God’s Acts ONLY” when “His Will” is mentioned anywhere in Scripture (sometimes He Acts His Will through chosen men but in other cases by Himself ONLY).
This means that in those cases, it talks about His Action ONLY either in aiding that creature to do GOOD ONLY (e.g. James 1:17) or in bringing about JUDGEMENT toward any Evil done in some cases (Ecclesiastes 3:17).
Here are the verses you quoted:
“There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.” (Proverbs 19:21)
“For from Him and through Him and unto Him are all things. To Him be the glory to the ages! Amen.” (Romans 11:36)
These verses talk about God’s Action ONLY (as His Will) and NOT say a ‘rape done by a man by his OWN will’.
Firstly, let’s briefly look at Romans 11:36 first.
From Him = All things created by His Action ONLY (Colossians 1:16)
Through Him = All things will be Saved by His Action ONLY (John14:6, Acts 4:12)
To Him = All things are Reconciled and return back to Him by His Action ONLY (Colossians 1:20, Romans 3:22, Revelation 21:5, Acts 3:21, Philippians 2:9 – 11, Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Ephesians 1:8 - 11)
As it is written, Proverbs 19:21 speaks of God’s Counsel by His Will will stand AGAINST any DEVICES of man that men had chosen in his heart first & carried out some of it in their respective lives proving creation’s will to be ‘vanity’ (non absolute, non eternal effects, temporal evil only, Ecclesiastes 3:1 – 10, Ecclesiastes 1:2, Ecclesiastes 1:14).
How? Ephesians 1:8 – 10 reveals this SECRET of HIS WILL where God ‘overcomes the evil will of creation’ by doing the Ultimate GOOD ONLY (James 1:17) toward the “ALL things” namely to ‘Gather them in as one in Christ’ (Ephesians 1:10) to RECONCILE them back (Colossians 1:20) DESPITE their worst sins (James 2:13) by setting them FREE (from their servitude of sin in their OWN evil choices of ‘vanity’, Romans 8:20 – 21, Acts 3:21) to become Children of God eventually when God finally becomes “ALL in ALL” (1 Corinthians 15:28) as these verses describe when seen together too.
Atheist: How about Children Suffering across the earth? (Moral Compass please)
(Here's even deeper wisdom - Here's the Moral Compass)
If atheists are truly concerned for all those innocent children on earth being subjected to evil, please don't marry and have kids simply because it could happen to them too due to another's creation's evil upon it.
God is ONLY to be blamed if He created those 'suffering children directly' and then placed them on earth which He did NOT do. The only human He created directly is Adam & Eve and when God said be 'fruitful and multiply' (Genesis 1:28) ---> there was "NO" sin ---> the choice to give birth later "after the fall in sin" is Adam & Eve's OWN choice.
Likewise, the mistakes are done say by a parent in a famine struck land. That mother whilst having insufficient food for herself, still continues to bear a child into that suffering (so much for a mother's love gibberish in such cases!). The mother has a CHOICE just like Adam & Eve or the rest in affecting Evil to the next generation. God "ALLOWS" us to make that CHOICE and NOT Influence us to make those CHOICES.
If we make that CHOICE, we are RESPONSIBLE for it. Simple as that. God stopped Creating DIRECTLY after the Fall. He gives CREATION the CHOICE to CHOOSE whether to have children or not. Unless in cases where He asked you to give birth to children, we cannot blame Him for ‘being born’. Our parents CHOSE that.
God is Perfectly Responsible and "despite" creation's OWN will to CHOOSE to do whatever it wants as its power warrants in this temporal vanity, God still WORKS All things by the Counsel of HIS WILL (referring to HIS ACTIONS ONLY) by doing EVERY Good and Perfect thing among these imperfections (James 1:17) ---> even willing the Salvation of the World eventually by HIS WILL (or HIS ACTION ALONE), Romans 8:20 - 21, 1 Corinthians 15:25 - 28.
Further, how is God excused from "ALL evil" done to innocent children? He did NOT do it to any of them. Read carefully: The 'parents' brought them into this world (via legitimate or illegitimate means such as rape too) and the evil which happens to them is due to "their OWN parents" bringing them into a world of suffering 'knowingly' and due to 'other creation's evil influence' such as a 'rapist' (including the demons which influence them too).
Which 'god' to blame for NOT acting against Evil Immediately?
A role given to the 'gods' in Psalm 82:1 - 4 and 2 Corinthians 4:4.
God's ONLY role in all this?
He "ALLOWED" evil (1 Corinthians 10:13) for a 'limited time only' (Ecclesiastes 3:1 - 10) but will JUDGE 'all their roles respectively' for it (Ecclesiastes 3:17, Psalm 82:1). None shall escape on the Dreadful Day of the LORD.
“There is no wisdom and no understanding And no counsel against the LORD.” (Proverbs 21:30)
Blessed be His Holy Name!
(c) Judgment toward anyone against God and His Perfect Word
Remember, God is NOT mocked, each will reap what they have sown only (so if they didn’t do it, they won’t reap such Judgment, simple as that):
“Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.” (Galatians 6:7)
Regarding those enemies of God who are ‘misled’ purposely or unknowingly to be against God, good luck as it is written too that (they receive the just due for their ACTIONS and WORDS FALSELY against Him as well, trying to blame the Devil for it or stating that they didn’t know won’t quite work simply because ‘a wrong is a wrong even if you did it unknowingly):
God Laughs at His Enemies (be it you or I or anyone including those who FALSELY accuse Him of evil in any way):
"I will also laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your dread comes," (Proverbs 1:26)
"He who sits in the heavens laughs, The Lord scoffs at them." (Psalms 2:4)
(4) How about this verse which seems to imply that no one resists God’s Will?
“One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist His will?" (Romans 9:19)
Firstly, please note that the statement ‘who is able to resist His Will’ is made by “you” (not God). This does NOT mean that God is forcing you to do His Will (for example to believe in Him) simply because ‘you are still ABLE to NOT believe in Him’ (proving your ACCUSATION FALSE).
Though God can FORCE you to HONOUR HIM and He doesn’t as proven earlier by your words which dishonour Him or falsely ascribe evil to Him though truth is, He does NO evil (James 1:13) as we have discussed earlier in detail too.
So, His ACCUSATION of Evil toward you is VALID and merits judgment according to the role you played in your OWN evil (Isaiah 3:11, Matthew 5:26, Luke 12:47 – 48) and ‘knowing or not knowing’ with regards to obeying the ‘truth of the Gospel’ (His Will for Good ONLY) will merit vengeance in JUDGMENT according to the EVIL DONE by one’s OWN acts & choices against His Perfectly Good Ways (2 Thessalonians 1:8).
(5) But didn’t God cause them to be blind spiritually and how can He judge them then according to Romans 11:8?
“as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see, and ears that could not hear, to this very day." (Romans 11:8)
God did NOT DO the Act of blinding them DIRECTLY (the rest of Scripture which discuses similar cases may be understood in like manner because God works along the SAME Principles each time being Perfect).
Here’s a Great Secret regarding this:
The answer lies in this verse below:
“In their case the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” (2 Corinthians 4:4)
Just like in Job’s case or in Adam & Eve’s case, as God’s Action must be Consistent in that Perfect Principle, we see that ‘evil’ is done by the Spiritual wicked being in the heavenlies (Satan and his host by their OWN choice too according to the authority given to them to say a ‘yes or no’, Psalms 82:1 – 4, Ephesians 6:12) ----> they CHOSE to BLIND the unbelievers who ‘obey them knowingly or unknowingly’ but ‘willingly’ certainly unaware of this being “bound in their OWN disobedience” by their OWN sins & actions against God causing this (Romans 11:32), sadly.
That is, just like the ACT of BLINDING them is DONE DIRECTLY by Satan (2 Corinthians 4:4, and NOT by God) as Holy Scripture clearly testifies ---> This is the explanation (as Let Scripture interpret Scripture) ----> for understanding Romans 11:8 correctly in that God is NOT doing evil but ALLOWING Evil (1 Corinthians 10:13) INDIRECTLY according to the reason of their OWN sins & the will of the ‘gods’ whom they follow after mostly unknowingly which has thus ‘bound’ them accordingly (the correct analogically same way of understanding Romans 11:32 or other equivalent Scripture likewise!).
For example, the “hardening” Scripture below may be understood likewise in analogy simply because God does NOT change and these are all speaking of the ‘SAME’ topic of EVIL vs Good (context):
“So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens (ALLOWS the Hardening by their OWN sin and OWN gods – 1 Corinthians 10:13, added for emphasis, Context) whom He desires.” (Romans 9:18)
To Whom God has Mercy to release them from their “OWN hardening” caused by their OWN sins and Choice (Hebrews 3:8) & through their ‘own gods’ (Psalm 82:1 – 4) whom they chose to serve via their thoughts, actions and words (mostly unknown to them due to lack of wisdom)? As “God Wills” (His Free Will Choice).
“So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.” (Romans 9:16)
“For He says to Moses: "I will show mercy to whom I may show mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I may have compassion." (Romans 9:15)
“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 8:36)
Conclusion
Men hate being Judged for their OWN sins and thus want to Blame it on God from the Fall itself (John 7:7, John 16:8).
Despite Creation being Evil in some way (falling short of the Perfection of God, relatively in some cases, Romans 3:23) ---> causing “ALL the WORLD” to become GUILTY on that Great Day of Judgment when He Reveals Every detail (Romans 3:19) ----> God is GOOD PERFECTLY that He allows ALL to be Justified FREELY by His Righteousness (Romans 3:22, Isaiah 45:24, Romans 4:5) ---> through His Act ALONE by the Faith of Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22, 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 John 2:2) ----> proving God ALONE is GOOD in the END (1 John 4:14, John 4:42)
The best part is that in His Foreknowledge beyond your temporal misunderstanding of Him being subject to the VANITY of your OWN evil & creation’s evil causing that, it will END due to His Act only of liberating you too one day as part of creation as promised Gloriously in Romans 8:20 – 21 where you will WILLINGLY (1 Corinthians 4:5) & swear allegiance back to Him (Philippians 2:9 – 11) subjecting yourself to Him in LOVE (1 Corinthians 15:25 – 28) and finally God being “ALL in ALL” (1 Corinthians 15:28) bringing ‘Glory to God the Father’ (Philippians 2:11) all ‘as it is beautifully written’ in Holy Scripture (Psalm 50:15, Hosea 14:4, 2 Samuel 14:14, Romans 11:32).
He is Beautifully Unknown (John 1:10) and Hated for Willing to Save them (John 3:17, John 15:25) & Giving back Judgment for their OWN sins back to them (John 7:7, Isaiah 3:11), a Beautiful Irony indeed.
"Jesus replied, "You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand." (John 13:7)
“and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." – Lord Jesus Christ (John 8:32)
Blessed be Lord Jesus Christ, Saviour of the World!
Maranatha, even so come, Lord Jesus!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
A
N
A
L
Y
S
I
S
.
.
.
.
Deep Secrets - How to Understand Diseases and Evil in this world?
"but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD." (Jeremiah 9:24)
Proof verses for the existence of CHOICE in creation's will?
1 Corinthians 10:13 --> God "allows" evil to exist and be carried out by Creation's OWN CHOICE (Deuteronomy 30:15, Deuteronomy 30:19, Deuteronomy 11:26, Luke 12:57, Psalm 82:2, Luke 4:6)
(i) God stopped Creating DIRECTLY after the Fall
Example:
God Creates Evil INDIRECTLY "before" the Fall itself in the Tree of knowledge of Good & Evil. He is Faithful not to allow the temptation beyond What Adam & Eve could bear by warning FIRST to them to NOT eat of the fruit agreeing with the Perfect Principles regarding this in 1 Corinthians 10:13, revealed later.
God ALLOWED CHOICE "before" the Fall itself as Adam & Eve decided to listen to the Devil instead (just like the Devil "lied" from his OWN resources from the beginning itself, John 8:44) and God does NOT secretly influence or wire ANY EVIL in ANY WAY into Creation's "decision in its OWN Choice" as "it is written" in James 1:13.
Please don't be "deceived" by thinking contrary to these Perfect Principles of how Good (James 1:17), Evil (James 1:13, 1 Corinthians 10:13) & Sin (James 1:14 - 15) is done as apostle James himself personally 'warned' in James 1:16.
Thus, God "Allows" Evil to exist or be done by Creation.
(ii) A Sensible Analogy
God allowed the materials for the creation of the knife.
Now, human beings aided by forces Unknown to them (probably the "gods", Psalm 82:1 or through the knowledge available by God Himself) ----> created the knife on earth (God did not create the knife directly but INDIRECTLY only in the sense that He "allowed" the knowledge of 'how to do it' and 'materials needed for it' to 'exist') ----> Next, God "allowed" the knowledge of "evil" which Man CHOSE WILLINGLY to know though God WARNED against it ---> then, Man combines these elements together with the influence of the "gods" (2 Corinthians 4:4, Psalm 82:2, Ephesians 6:12) to commit the evil of murder.
God will JUDGE both man & these "gods" who influenced that evil done accordingly just like He did it the Fall of Man too (Ecclesiastes 3:17, Jude 1:15, Psalm 82:6 - 8, 2 Thessalonians 1:8 - 9) on the Dreadful Day of the LORD (Amos 5:18, Zephaniah 1:14, Joel 1:15).
(iii) How about the Foreknowledge of God? Why didn't He stop the evil Choice by Creation eliminating evil completely?
If the ability to decide a CHOICE didn't exist, we would be "wired" or "programmed" to carry out decisions under certain responses only such as the 'animals'.
Without CHOICE, we could also be just robots.
God created us in His Image with the ABILITY to CHOOSE because He has that ABILITY to CHOOSE too. God doesn't DO Evil though He has the knowledge of Evil (His Perfect Way).
God didn't even burden Man to know evil in His Direct Creation itself since the knowledge of evil was outside & man CHOSE to know evil "DESPITE" God warned them (Adam & Eve) not to eat of it (control measure was also given).
But God still knew that they would CHOOSE to break His Command. He "ALLOWED" it agreeing with 1 Corinthians 10:13 in His Perfect Principles discussed earlier too.
God did NOT stop evil using His Foreknowledge simply because then He would have created robots with NO CHOICE to CHOOSE between Good and Evil. Better that way. you say? Then perhaps on Judgment Day He Will let you make that CHOICE for yourself to ALLOW Him to make you into an "animal" or equivalent in His Kingdom as 'your OWN words prefer it', right? But for now, He lets you live alongside creation WITH CHOICE first.
The God secretly wired or programmed us theory doesn't agree with plenty of Scripture such as Job 1:22 (because it puts some blame on God for evil) and even against James 1:13 primarily (simply because it puts some responsibility or influence on God with regards to evil, which is NOT true).
God is the Genius Who is Able and has CREATED Evil INDIRECTLY in that Way (Isaiah 45:7) understood with other related Scriptures quoted together as we did.
(iv) Why didn't God allow any Providence for evil to be stopped instantly in some way?
He did actually though this hidden fact is rarely understood or known.
This role is given to the "gods" as Psalm 82 describes especially in verses 3 & 4 where they are given the authority to instantly act or defend the poor & needy & the oppressed & the weak but they CHOOSE not to do so.
Why?
They aren't created as robots either but with choice just like our earthly rulers (in analogy) who decide to do good sometimes & evil at other times.
However, these spiritual wickedness ("the gods", Psalm 82, 1 Corinthians 8:5) in the heavens have CHOSEN to do EVIL instead (much details not revealed in Scripture, 1 Chronicles 21:1, Ephesians 6:12, 2 Corinthians 4:4, Mark 3:26, Matthew 12:26, Luke 11:20, 1 Corinthians 2:8, Colossians 2:15).
The Bible even teaches how to keep oneself safe from these "evil ones" agreeing to 1 Corinthians 10:13 that God is Faithful to provide an "escape" from these "evil ones" too in (Ephesians 6:11, Ephesians 6:13 - 17, John 16:7, John 16:12 - 15).
(v) But isn't it written that God did evil in Amos 3:6?
The "Evil" spoken of in Amos 3:6 and equivalent verses like that is "Judgment". The other phrases found in this verse such as the "trumpet sound" and "people being afraid" reveal it to be the Judgment part.
This "Judgment part" is "evil" because the "same" evil these judged ones did to others is rendered back to them accordingly in such cases agreeing with the Perfect Principle of Isaiah 3:11 (Afterlife Judgment is based on similar "equal" to the "evil" done Principle too: Matthew 18:35, Luke 12:47 - 48, Matthew 18:34, Matthew 5:26).
These Judgment cases are not referring to evil done by Creation's OWN will through its OWN Choice as discussed earlier too (John 7:7, John 16:8 - 11).
Judgment is a different case and some Judgment God "allows" such "equal" evil back to them who did that FIRST (1 Samuel 15:2, Psalm 137:8) on earth itself (John 12:31, Jeremiah 51:1, Jeremiah 15:3, Jeremiah 22:7, 1 Samuel 16:14, 1 Samuel 18:10, Exodus 12:29, Exodus 12:23)
So, whenever Scripture mentions God "doing evil" it refers to this Judgment case and has nothing to do say in a 'rape case' done under another creation's OWN Choice. God controls the damage done too accordingly and sometimes showing Mercy as He Wills (His Choice, 2 Samuel 24:16, James 2:13, John 5:24, Romans 9:15).
Only God decides whether to Judge some on earth itself or others later as He Wills. He will Reveal how He decides this one day (Luke 8:17, 1 Corinthians 4:5)
(vi) How about all things being created by God (e.g. Colossians 1:16)?
God created them Perfect (Genesis 1) and "Good" (Genesis 1:31). This is God Creating DIRECTLY where ALL that He Created DIRECTLY is Good ONLY (agreeing to James 1:17 too).
(vii) How about the all things part which are evil?
Just like in the case of Adam & Eve, creation by its OWN will and Evil influence toward each other Fell and missed the Perfection of God in some way (Romans 3:19) due to sin leading to death & the sin not leading to death (1 John 5:16 - 17) as well as 'good within creation's power but it did NOT do it by its OWN will/choice' (James 4:17).
God Judges 'all' perfectly according to the measure given to each (Romans 3:23, Luke 12:47 - 48, Luke 16:10).
That is, God didn't Create them evil but with a CHOICE as discussed prior too in this complex Web of creation's will affecting each other.
God Works out the "Mystery or Secret" of "His Will" (His Actions of Good ONLY, no evil) "despite" creation's evil to do good toward these "all things" as well (Ephesians 1:8 - 11, 1 Corinthians 15:25 - 28, Acts 3:21, Revelation 21:5, Colossians 1:20, 2 Corinthians 5:19, 2 Samuel 14:14) and that's how we clearly see that God Alone is Good (Mark 10:18).
That's how God's Will prevails to achieve Good ONLY in the end over any man's will (Proverbs 19:21) or creation's will (Romans 8:20 - 21) "despite" the evil done by our OWN will in "vanity" (Ecclesiastes 3:1 - 10, Romans 8:20, Ecclesiastes 1:2, Ecclesiastes 1:14) Where only God is "not" included (excepted) from this vanity part through "His Will" (Good ONLY) done by Himself or through some creation at times (1 Corinthians 15:27).
(viii) How to Understand Predestination by God then?
The phrase "all My pleasure" proves that God does Good ONLY by Himself or sometimes through creation whenever "His Will" is mentioned in Holy Scripture including those (GOOD) things "NOT done" toward the "End" too as mentioned in Isaiah 46:10 (in principle, Jeremiah 29:11).
God's Will refers ONLY to the Good part in some creation's will in acting out the Good when He influences them (James 1:17) in Good ONLY (Isaiah 45:13) including Good done through unbelievers (Isaiah 45:5) too as the example in King Cyrus of Persia clearly proves.
God cannot have a different Principle in Good agreeing Perfectly to the word "Every" in James 1:17. That is, God does Good ONLY (James 1:17) and NOT Evil (James 1:13) without being confused with the Judgment case described earlier as Scripture reveals.
God does Good "despite" evil done by Creation is the correct way of understanding "Predestination" that God works out all things after the counsel of His Will (Ephesians 1:11) through His Good actions ONLY (no evil actions) agreeing to His Perfect Way of "overcoming evil by good too" (Romans 12:21). God does not change from His Perfect Ways (Matthew 5:48).
(ix) How about Diseases?
All Diseases are a curse due to sin (Deuteronomy 28:58 - 62, Psalm 11:6, Deuteronomy 29:26 - 27) or due to purposeless evil by "the gods" toward those "serving them" knowingly or unknowingly (Deuteronomy 7:15 - 16, Psalm 16:4, Jeremiah 16:13, Matthew 4:9)
Despite these diseases even in the case where it is purposely done by the evil ones ("the gods") in their power toward innocent ones ----> such as in the case of Job (Satan does it by his OWN will in Job 2:7, and God did NOT DO it though Satan tried to "incite" God (Job 2:3) into doing evil first in Job 2:5) ----> or in this man blind from the birth (in John 9:1) ----> must be due to the 'agency of Satan or these evil gods' agreeing to Psalm 82, Job 2:3 with respect to the authority given to them as God cannot have a different Principle in Allowing Likewise Evils----> God allows it to display His Healing Power later overcoming these evils! (John 9:3)
For the cases where the Healing was not immediate, God will judge these "gods" for their evil accordingly in all these eventually (Psalm 82:1, 8) And heal the blind and all other diseases one day too accordingly (Isaiah 35:4 - 6, Isaiah 42:16, both the physically blind & spiritually blind too in 2 Corinthians 4:4 as well) proving God's Will is Good ONLY (Unchanging).
These cases are not to be confused with "Judgment" where some are "allowed" to be "blind" (physically or spiritually) or be inflicted with "other diseases" due to Judgment for their OWN sin first (Acts 13:11, Acts 5:3 - 5, 2 Kings 2:23 - 24, 2 Kings 5:26 - 27 where such "severe" Judgments have its reasons though unknown fully to us but God will prove it one day for sure; the guiding Principle that these were that cruel within them must be true as Isaiah 3:11 testifies the 'level of Judgment must match one's OWN level of cruelty or wickedness first though Scripture may not detail all aspects of it').
(x) A real life example - A child born in rape. Please explain.
Why did God "allow" (1 Corinthians 10:13) that evil and how do we understand it?
Please consider:
Firstly, God stopped Creating DIRECTLY.
Meaning?
Humans have a CHOICE to make say wanna have a baby or not & God ALOWS them to make that CHOICE.
God creates DIRECTLY is when He creates without any human decision or any other decision by His Free Will Alone such as the case of Adam & Eve.
Babies are not thrown from heaven by God nor do women get pregnant without any human intervention first DECIDING that FIRST such as their CHOICE be it in a parent case or rape (creation's will is that).
God DID NOT Influence that evil of rape in any way be it secretly or via the programming of the brain of the rapist by Him as some dare assert (plainly contradicting James 1:13 by their OWN self-made wrong interpretation of Theology concerning this) as He gave those involved CHOICE by which they are ABLE to CHOOSE between Good & Evil fairly in ALL cases (though they will lie to you claiming otherwise via psychological reasons or mental illness too) because God assures that in 1 Corinthians 10:13 "despite" their sicknesses due to "their OWN gods" whom such serve via their OWN sins knowingly or unknowingly.
Those are cases where God creates INDIRECTLY after the human choice first as He "allowed" it that way. Simple (the meaning of how He creates INDIRECTLY in this case too) accounting for the all things part more accurately agreeing with "REALITY".
How about people who are trying to have kids but can't?
This is not only dependent upon that husband & wife but more forces are at play from the spiritual realm as we discussed earlier seeing vaguely only due to limited Scripture revealing these secrets (Psalm 82:1 - 4, not only humans are involved).
Why does God allow it?
God "allowed" such power just like the knife & murder analogy given in an earlier post too. Apart from that, so that we are not robots but are able to decide our decisions too being able to make a choice being aware of the consequences of our choices as well.
But doesn't God Alone have the final say in creating that child out of rape?
Firstly, the rapist decided that & it happens according to the law of biology together with higher forces at play in this age As God gave authority to these "gods" & they chose NOT to stop that rape immediately via the authority given to them to do so as mentioned in Psalm 82:2 - 4 so clearly 'as it is written' (2 Corinthians 4:4, Psalm 82;1 - 4, Ephesians 6:12).
Accurate details remain Unknown due to limited Scripture but all these play a role as we can infer from existing verses quoted earlier too. God ALLOWED (1 Corinthians 10:13) such power to them 'doing evil' by their OWN will and thus will judge them all later when it's wrong, no worries. (Ecclesiastes 3:17, Psalm 82:1, 8).
For example, those "gods" that give disease and all that as in the case of Job reveals, Satan caused that diseases on Job by his OWN CHOICE (Job 2:7) & such evil must therefore be similarly occurring in Principle for God being Impartial cannot be having more than One Principle (with regards to Judgment, being Fair Romans 2:11) but may show Mercy only by His Choice (His Free Will choice to do what He wants with His OWN things such as "(undeserved) Mercy", Romans 9:15, Matthew 20:15) clearly marking a Perfect Distinction in such cases.
For if "Mercy" is based on something we did or something we are credited for due to our own role in some way, it won't be Mercy at all.
Mercy to "ALL" (Romans 11:32) is eventually assured by Scripture too in the "End" (James 2:13) revealing that God is Perfect (Luke 6:36).
God "binding" them in their "OWN" disobedience FIRST is the correct way of understanding Romans 11:32 as discussed in a previous discussion as well in detail putting NO blame whatsoever on God for ANY Evil done when Scripture is Understood correctly agreeing to all related verses as well (Job 1:22).
Conclusion
God Alone is Good and we can understand it through Proper Exegesis of Scripture.
"so that it might be fulfilled that having been spoken by the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things hidden from the foundation of the world." - Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 13:35)
What is the Purpose of "Secrets" or "Hidden" things?
They bring "Glory to God" when Revealed because these will prove that God Alone is Good.
"The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons to the age, that we may observe all the words of this law." (Deuteronomy 29:29)
"It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter." (Proverbs 25:2)
"Then you will discern the fear of the LORD And discover the knowledge of God." (Proverbs 2:5)
"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." - Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:6)
.
.
.
.
.
P/S:
How is evil not God’s Fault at all?
How to Understand God "allowing" evil without actually doing it Directly (1 Corinthians 10:13)?
It's like God giving me them up to eyes of stupor in Romans 11:8 in similar literary style meaning He "allowed" it simply because the actual one causing that blindness in 'all' who disbelieve is Satan (god of this age, according to the dominion & choice he makes), not God as 2 Corinthians 4:4 reveals this often missed context.
Thus we see that no blame at all is on God (Job 1:22) agreeing To God doing No evil at all James 1:13.
Regarding Evil done by creation's will -----> God in His Foreknowledge of Creation's wrong choices ---> decides after the Counsel of His Own Will regarding His Actions ONLY (Ephesians 1:11)----> and by His Will (Good ONLY) He rectifies it in the end ---> "despite" creation's wrong choices and acts against His Will.
Everything done by creation is NOT necessarily God's Will though God allowed it (Matthew 7:21)
With regards to destroyers being engaged, those are Judgment cases matching the level of evil done by the wicked ones first (agreeing to the Judgment Principle in Isaiah 3:11) and these are NOT the same case as the evil done by creation and "despite" all that, God still wills restoration for He alone is Good, No fault on God in any of these when understood correctly.
God does NO dirty work at all (James 1:13, Psalm 18:30)
In Short:
God doesn't want any evil to take place.
But evil happens due to Creation's choice and He allows it.
He rectifies it by His Will even letting evil to Happen to Him at His Cross to Solve the Problem of Evil (Hence He is Good, by using His Foreknowledge to solve it this Way).
Matthew 7:21 explains creation's will which are not His Will but God ‘allowed’ such evil to happen though He doesn’t approve it at all. God still wills to correct it “despite” the evil done by creation in this case.
Regarding Christ's Acts, it is His Will (no doubt on that as it is His Actions Only).
You are confusing creation's will in its choice against God case vs when Creation obeys God case versus God's Acts by His Will Alone case (These are all distinct cases as Scripture reveals).
Peace
.
.
.
.
F
A
Q
.
.
.
.
.
FAQ Style - Misunderstood - The Logic of Evil - Allowing its Creation and Action does NOT prove its approval
‘If your exegesis of Scripture contradicts another Scripture, it is your exegesis that is wrong and not the Word of God for His Word is Flawless & no man can disarm Holy Scripture’ – Anonymous
"Every word of God is flawless (true, pure); He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.” (Proverbs 30:5)
Some edifying notes regarding this so that I may not be misunderstood over the course of the lengthy write-ups with regards to this (some instructional verses proving each claim made to understand evil correctly ‘as it is written’ – not opinions).
1) The term free will vs Creation’s Will
You are right sir in that “free will” is "not" free absolutely (as the common classical definition of it seems to render) but limited in many ways. Creation’s will is not free from the consequence of its own choice (the heaviest weightage is for this aspect beyond any influence from external sources such as another creation’s role in it).
The classical rendering of that term does a lot confusion, lol
True, I agree and I meant it differently as described in those lengthy write-ups.
I should have avoided the term free will and used creation's will to not be misunderstood regarding this.
2) Does God do Good ONLY?
Yes, as it is written:
“You (God) are good and do good; Teach me Your statutes.” (Psalm 119:68)
"Why do you call Me good?" Jesus replied, "No one is good except God alone.” (Mark 10:18)
3) Is every Good only due to God ONLY?
Yes, as it is written:
“Every good act of giving and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of shifting.” (James 1:17)
"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.” (Matthew 7:18) ----> implying that Good cannot exist nor can it be done outside His Influence because He is the True Source of All Good agreeing with the word “every” in James 1:17 above too.
4) Can we do Good without God?
No way because He is that Vine (Good Tree) and we are His branches (when we are abiding in Him to do His Will) ----> His Will refers to Good ONLY -----> and we can do “nothing” (by context of the passage, it refers to ‘Nothing Good only’ and does ‘not’ include evil deeds as so commonly erred) ---> simply because the ‘do nothing’ apart from Me refers to ‘Good Deeds through God’s Influence ONLY’ and not evil deeds for God does no evil (James 1:13) in verse below:
"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.” (John 15:5)
5) Is God to be blamed for evil in any way? Is He responsible in the slightest way?
Absolutely not! Verses:
“Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.” (Job 1:22)
“For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil dwells with You.” (Psalm 5:4)
6) Doer of Evil - Who gets the ultimate blame for any evil done?
The Creation which did that action of evil is held most responsible & will be judged for it as described in Principle in Colossians 3: 5 - 10, other verses verses:
"But everyone will die for his own iniquity; each man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth will be set on edge.” (Jeremiah 31:30)
“The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.” (Ezekiel 18:20)
“And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him;” (Ezekiel 14:10)
"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." (John 8:24)
“Now we know that whatever the law says speaks to those who are subject to the law, so that every mouth may be shut and the whole world may become subject to God's judgment.” (Romans 3:19)
“"The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil.” – Lord Jesus Christ (John 7:7)
7) Influencer of Evil – Does God have a role?
God has NO role in any influencing any evil done as ‘it is written’:
“Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.” (James 1:13)
8) Then who influences evil?
Only Creation may influence each other in doing evil serving that ‘corruption’ due to ‘sin’ (Romans 8:20).
The ‘knowledge of evil’ from the ‘tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil’ is passed on mysteriously to us after our own forefather’s transgression (Genesis 3:22) proven by the fact that we can ‘understand & know evil when exposed to it by fellow creation’.
Based on this knowledge of evil, we ‘bring evil out of our own desire in our hearts’ toward sin and thus ‘evil is from our own resources as well’ as it is ‘allowed such’ independent of God alone (James 1:14 – 15, Jeremiah 17:9, Jeremiah 17:10, Matthew 15:19, Mark 7:21, Luke 6:45, Proverbs 4:23, Mathew 12:34).
Satan brings forth evil from ‘his own resources’ (God allowed him to have such power) which he uses to influence evil in others too (John 8:44, 2 Corinthians 4:4, Luke 4:6, Ephesians 2:2, Ephesians 6:12) or works directly too in his authority to do evil (Job 2:7).
9) Is God responsible for the evil done by Satan and the gods?
Of course not.
God is Faithful and cannot be blamed for Satan’s fall simply because just like God created Satan perfect (Ezekiel 28:12)
----> gave Satan that power to choose evil or good through wisdom given to him (Ezekiel 28:12, 14)
----> and he chose to do evil by his own “choice” (the phrase “your ways” in Ezekiel 28:15 & “you sinned” in Ezekiel 28:16, “your many sins” in Ezekiel 28:18; also the phrase “you said” in Isaiah 14:13 followed by the many I’s statements indicating his own will/choice in Isaiah 14:13 – 14 to sin)
-----> and continues to act evil likewise (John 8:44, Job 2:7)
----> together with his hosts too with the dominion given to them ‘as gods’ (Psalm 82:6, 1 Corinthians 8:5) even ‘refusing’ to ‘stop evil immediately on earth’ which is given in their power as mentioned clearly in (Psalm 82:2 – 4)
----> thus, they will be judged accordingly for it too (Psalm 82:1, Psalm 82:8)
“Rise up, O Judge of the earth,
Render recompense to the proud.” (Psalm 94:2)
“They pour forth words, they speak arrogantly;
All who do wickedness vaunt themselves.
They crush Your people, O LORD,
And afflict Your heritage. They slay the widow and the stranger
And murder the orphans.” (Psalm 94:4 – 6)
“They have said, “The LORD does not see,
Nor does the God of Jacob pay heed.” (Psalm 94:7)
“Pay heed, you senseless among the people;
And when will you understand, stupid ones?” (Psalm 94:8)
“He who chastens the nations, will He not rebuke,
Even He who teaches man knowledge?” (Psalm 94:10)
“Who will stand up for me against evildoers?
Who will take his stand for me against those who do wickedness?” (Psalm 94:16)
“They band themselves together against the life of the righteous
And condemn the innocent to death.” (Psalm 94:21)
Best Part:
“He has brought back their wickedness upon them
And will destroy them in their evil;
The LORD our God will destroy them.” (Psalm 94:23)
10) But can’t it be that God is using evil secretly for His Plan in some way?
Of Course not, verses:
“Can a throne of destruction be allied with You (God),
One which devises mischief by decree?” (Psalm 94:16)
11) Maybe God uses evil for His Good Purposes?
No again, verse (in Principle):
“And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), "Let us do evil that good may come "? Their condemnation is just.” (Romans 3:8)
12) No Evil is from God DIRECTLY; Verses please?
“this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.” (1 John 1:5)
“For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil dwells with You.” (Psalm 5:4)
13) But didn’t God create evil (Isaiah 45:7) which makes Him ultimately responsible for it?
No! Please consider a sensible analogy with regards to ‘created with the ability of choice’:
God allowed the materials for the creation of the knife.
Now, human beings aided by forces Unknown to them (probably the "gods", Psalm 82:1 or through the knowledge available by God Himself)
----> created the knife on earth (God did not create the knife directly but INDIRECTLY only in the sense that He "allowed" the knowledge of 'how to do it' and 'materials needed for it' to 'exist')
----> Next, God "allowed" the knowledge of "evil" which Man CHOSE WILLINGLY to know though God WARNED against it
---> then, Man combines these elements together with the influence of the "gods" (2 Corinthians 4:4, Psalm 82:2, Ephesians 6:12) to commit the evil of murder.
God will JUDGE both man & these "gods" who influenced that evil done accordingly just like He did it the Fall of Man too (Ecclesiastes 3:17, Jude 1:15, Psalm 82:6 - 8, 2 Thessalonians 1:8 - 9) on the Dreadful Day of the LORD (Amos 5:18, Zephaniah 1:14, Joel 1:15).
14) Doesn’t Foreknowledge put the blame or responsibility on God with regards to evil?
No again because to eliminate the choice of creation whenever it does evil would be to eliminate the freedom of choice to creation itself (this is a self contradiction manner because it’s the same as creating rational creation without choice but just responses such as in the case of animals & even machines).
Thus the blame and/or responsibility for any evil is only according to the role played by creation with regards to the ‘doer of evil’ and ‘influencer of evil’ which does NOT include God in any way (this is the way ‘God created Evil’ to exist and operate temporally in this vanity, independent of Him in causing/doing/influencing evil but only in making available the ‘materials’ [due to lack of a better word] and giving choice for creation to determine their own course of action regarding this with ‘sufficient’ control measures to be able to ‘choose good’ as well proving His Perfect responsibility in the way He allowed evil as written in 1 Corinthians 10:13 quoted earlier too).
15) But how about verses which say that God did that evil such as in Amos 3:6? Isn’t that a contradiction in the Bible?
No, not at all. One sees a contradiction simply because one reasons from a fallacious logic. In this case, the fallacious logic is to assume that God’s Judgment is evil.
Simply put, God’s Judgment (e.g. God causes calamity upon a rapist) is different from creation doing evil (e.g. the act of rape); these are distinct where the former is God’s Will in Judgment (agreeing to Isaiah 3:11 with regards to ‘pain and level of cruelty allowed especially in Hell as His Principles do Not change’ while the latter case is creation’s own act/influence causing that with NO role from God at all in it).
A contradiction only exists in the mind of those who cannot see the distinction between “creation acting by its own choice” and “assuming” that God ‘wires/programmes’ or ‘influences’ that creation to do evil (say a rape) which is certainly both absurd & logically inconsistent with plenty of Scripture quoted such as James 1:13, Job 1:22, John 7:7, John 16:8, 1 Corinthians 10:13.
Furthermore Amos 3:6 (the phrase ‘trumpet blown’ itself proves that it is a Judgment case) along with the other Scriptures such as the ones below clearly describe “evil” Judgment allowed or inflicted by God through His direct Act or through the Destroyers (or angels)
-----> matching the “pain & level of cruelty” done by such evil ones “first” agreeing to the principle in Isaiah 3:11 perfectly (also Galatians 6:7)
----> where some Judgments are on earth while others are certain in Hell:
“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?” (Amos 3:6)
"Now therefore, behold, the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; and the LORD has proclaimed disaster against you.” (1 Kings 22:23)
“He sent upon them His burning anger, Fury and indignation and trouble, A band of destroying angels.” (Psalm 78:49)
“O let the evil of the wicked come to an end, but establish the righteous; For the righteous God tries the hearts and minds.” (Psalm 7:9)
“The LORD is known by the judgment which He executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah. The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.” (Psalm 9:16 – 17)
“Thou hast rebuked nations, Thou hast destroyed the wicked, Their name Thou hast blotted out to the age and for ever (permanently).” (Psalm 9:5)
“And He (the LORD) shall judge the world in righteousness, He shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.” (Psalm 9:8)
“God is a righteous judge, And a God who has indignation every day. If a man does not repent, He will sharpen His sword; He has bent His bow and made it ready. He has also prepared for Himself deadly weapons; He makes His arrows fiery shafts.” (Psalm 7:11 – 13)
Level of cruelty allowed in His Judgment will match the level of evil they did “first” toward others (equal evil rendered to each evil one accordingly in Judgment be it in this life or in Hell, where Hell = any afterlife punishment):
“Behold, he travails with wickedness, And he conceives mischief and brings forth falsehood. He has dug a pit and hollowed it out, and has fallen into the hole which he made. His mischief will return upon his own head, and his violence will descend upon his own pate.” (Psalm 7:14 – 16)
“Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.” (Galatians 6:7)
"My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart." – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 18:35)
“And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.” (Luke 12:47 – 48)
"And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.” (Matthew 18:34)
“Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. “Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.” (Matthew 5:25 – 26)
“And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'” – Lord Jesus Christ (Mathew 25:46)
“Be sure of this: The wicked will not go unpunished, but those who are righteous will go free.” (Proverbs 11:21)
“and some of the wise shall stumble, so that they may be refined, purified, and made white, until the time of the end, for it still awaits the appointed time.” (Daniel 11:35)
“Woe to the wicked--it will go badly for them, for what they have done will be done to them.” (Isaiah 3:11)
16) How is God ‘Good ONLY’ in Judgment?
“Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?” (1 Corinthians 6:2)
God is Good ONLY in His Judgments because He repays with Vengeance answering the Request of the Innocent ones who ‘suffered’ in the hands of the wicked whilst on earth:
“and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" (Revelation 6:10)
“The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground.” (Genesis 4:10)
“Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;” (2 Thessalonians 1:6)
“Behold, the pay of the laborers who mowed your fields, and which has been withheld by you, cries out against you; and the outcry of those who did the harvesting has reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth.” (James 5:4)
“Your gold and silver have corroded, and their rust will be for a testimony against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have treasured up in the last days.” (James 5:3)
“You have lived luxuriously on the earth and led a life of wanton pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.” (James 5:5)
"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 19:24)
“'But woe to you -- the rich, because ye have got your comfort.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 6:24)
“For I was envious of the arrogant As I saw the prosperity of the wicked. For there are no pains in their death, and their body is fat. They are not in trouble as other men,nor are they plagued like mankind. Therefore pride is their necklace; The garment of violence covers them. Their eye bulges from fatness; The imaginations of their heart run riot. They mock and wickedly speak of oppression; They speak from on high. They have set their mouth against the heavens, and their tongue parades through the earth. (Psalm 73:3 – 9)
“They say, “How does God know? and is there knowledge with the Most High?” Behold, these are the wicked; And always at ease, they have increased in wealth.” (Psalm 73:11 – 12)
“When I pondered to understand this, It was troublesome in my sight. Until I came into the sanctuary of God; Then I perceived their end. Surely You set them in slippery places; You cast them down to destruction. How they are destroyed in a moment! They are utterly swept away by sudden terrors!” (Psalm 73:16 – 19)
“for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God.” (James 1:20)
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." – Lord Jesus Christ (John 7:24)
Good is Good ONLY in Judgment because “despite” evil done, He can Save through His Judgments too by His “Mercy” as it is written:
Please consider these incredible verses revealing the Unstoppable Faith of Jesus Christ effect (Romans 3:3 - 4) to 'ALL' causing the 'Justification unto Salvation for ALL' (as promised in Romans 3:22) in accordance to 'Mercy showed to ALL' (Romans 11:32) with regards to God being able to 'Save' without any Time-Space-limit nor any other limits too (be it Hell itself)!, all 'as it is written':
(a) God Saves by His Mercy with 'no' Judgment
"'Verily, verily, I say to you -- He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life." - Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:24, YLT)
(b) God Saves by His Mercy 'during' Judgment
"For judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment." (James 2:13)
(c) God Saves by His Mercy 'after' Judgment
"but they will give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
For to this end the Good News (Gospel) was preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed as men in the flesh, but live as to God in the spirit." (1 Peter 4:5 - 6)
On Account of His “Mercy”, God is ‘Good’ to ‘ALL’:
“The LORD is good to all, and His mercies are over all His works.” (Psalm 145:9)
17) Did God give us the ability to choose or are we wired secretly to do these sins beforehand as He planned it as some dare assert?
He gave us the ability to choose ‘before’ the ‘fall itself’. Thus the ability to choose is a Good thing and not a sin. However, to choose to disobey His Will (e.g. in eating of the fruit which God told not to) is sin.
If God wired or programmed us in advance to commit that sin, only then He is responsible for all sins indirectly. God does NO such thing as James 1:13 & Job 1:22 clearly contradict this position in principle and thus the verses being true proves such ideas as false (no verse exists that God Preordained ‘sin’).
Also, if God wired us in advance to ‘sin’, then it proves that God has secret darkness in Him contradicting 1 John 1:5 too. Also, it would make no logical sense for God to Judge against evil with respect to “every” deed done (Ecclesiastes 3:17) if it was Him working out your ‘sin’ too.
God can only Judge sin (as it is the case) if ALL sin is NOT due to Him in any way (be it in the Influence or Action through any creation’s thought, word or action) agreeing with plenty of verses quoted in this write-up too pointing to this (such as James 1:13, James 1:17, James 1:14 – 15) and to know this avoids deceptive thoughts against God’s Holy Word (James 1:16).
If God did not give us choice, we would be programmed or wired to be like robots or animals. He wants us to be able to have to make a choice to be in His Image as He is able to make choices too at the Beginning itself before the fall.
Here are some verses proving God that God gave us choices together (in Deuteronomy 30:15, Deuteronomy 30:19, Deuteronomy 11:26, Luke 12:57, Psalm 82:2, Luke 4:6 ) with sufficient ability to choose the ‘good’ in each of our choices too as He is Faithful (though we can’t see the full details proving this from our earthly limitations) as it is written in verse below too (proving that choice given is ‘Perfectly Fair’ and the ‘choice to do evil by us’ puts the blame on us, the doer and the creation [if any] that played a role in influencing it):
“No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13)
18) Didn’t God Preordain everything? That is He Predestined everything?
Yes, God Predestined everything including the ‘Good which He approves’ (referring to things which are in accordance to His Will) and the ‘Evil which He does NOT approve’ (those things against His Will). He created choice for Rational Creation to be able to choose as we discussed earlier giving creation a freedom & ability to choose so that we are not robots nor animals (point 14 prior).
God allowing creation to be able to do the ‘evil which He does NOT approve’ (Matthew 7:21) does NOT bring any responsibility of evil upon Him in any way because of ‘the manner He created evil to exist'’(as discussed in points earlier especially points 13, 14 & 15)
----> follows principles of choice without Him influencing them to do that evil in any way (James 1:13)
---> even making sufficient ability in each person (though can’t be seen from our limited perception) to be able to ‘choose evil or good’ in a ‘fair’ way proving that ‘He is Faithful’ & makes that ‘way of escape’ in ALL creation’s decisions as 1 Corinthians 10:13 testifies, all ‘as it is written’.
Now, by creating evil in such a way (Isaiah 45:7) understood with Scriptures pointing to the various aspects with regards to this as discussed, we see that God in His Wisdom did NO evil.
He even allowed evil to happen to Him Willingly on His Cross and even Purposed a Predestined Solution to ‘save the world’ through His Good Act only (1 John 4:14, Colossians 1:16).
Men find it difficult to understand that God can create evil in such a way agreeing to the Good Principles with regards to its limitation & aspects with sufficient Grace to choose either way making each decision to do evil to be the ‘responsibility of the doer and influencer’ of evil ONLY.
God is Perfect in this and didn’t make a mistake in all this and neither did He Will the fall or any to perish (not His Plan nor His Will ever, 2 Peter 3:9, Ezekiel 18:23) though He allowed it even making a Solution to save the world despite it (John 3:17, 1 John 2:2, John 1:29).
God does NOT change and He didn’t change in the ‘creation’ of ‘evil’ either. He Himself is the Perfect example of the One knowing Good and Evil but never doing Evil at all.
Thus, the Knowledge of Evil does NOT lead to Sin for God never sinned. Our decision to sin is by our own choice.
Only by a dependency upon Him that we can stop sinning permanently as promised by His liberation (not by creation’s will but Him who set it in Hope regarding this as Romans 8:20 – 21 testifies as well through His Acts alone 1 Corinthians 15:25 - 28).
Just like in the case of Adam & Eve, creation by its OWN will and Evil influence toward each other Fell and missed the Perfection of God in some way (Romans 3:19) due to sin leading to death & the sin not leading to death (1 John 5:16 - 17) as well as 'good within creation's power but it did NOT do it by its OWN will/choice' (James 4:17).
God Judges 'all' perfectly according to the measure given to each (Romans 3:23, Luke 12:47 - 48, Luke 16:10). That is, God didn't Create them evil but with a CHOICE as discussed prior too in this complex Web of creation's will affecting each other.
19) How is God Sovereign then?
God Works out the "Mystery or Secret" of "His Will" (His Actions of Good ONLY, no evil) "despite" creation's evil to do good toward these "all things" as well (Ephesians 1:8 - 11, 1 Corinthians 15:25 - 28, Acts 3:21, Revelation 21:5, Colossians 1:20, 2 Corinthians 5:19, 2 Samuel 14:14) and that's how we clearly see that God Alone is Good (Mark 10:18).
That's how God's Will prevails to achieve Good ONLY in the end over any man's will (Proverbs 19:21) or creation's will (Romans 8:20 - 21) "despite" the evil done by our OWN will in "vanity" (Ecclesiastes 3:1 - 10, Romans 8:20, Ecclesiastes 1:2, Ecclesiastes 1:14) Where only God is "not" included (excepted) from this vanity part through "His Will" (Good ONLY) done by Himself or through some creation at times (1 Corinthians 15:27).
20) Does God’s Purposes refer to Good ONLY and NO evil by His Will?
Yes, example:
“Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My pleasure';” (Isaiah 46:10)
How do we know that “God’s Purpose” (or His Will, example in Isaiah 46:10 above) refers to “Good ONLY”? It’s seen in us (‘believers’) as the example verse below clearly states that ‘His Good Purpose’ (please notice the word ‘good pleasure’ in verse below, etymology of this original word in Greek proves this) is ‘what God refers to in us’ (and NOT the ‘evil’ we sometimes choose to do, not included as His Will) when He ‘leads us by His Will’ (John 15:5, 1 John 3:10) and when we transgress, we fall out (John 15:6, 1 John 3:8):
“for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13)
His Purpose being established “despite” creation’s fall into ‘evil’ by ‘its own choice’ is what’s meant by things ‘not done’ yet with regards to the ‘end’ as we saw earlier too in similar verses giving meaning to the phrase ‘Who (God) works out everything after the counsel of His Will’ (Ephesians 1:11, referring to His Acts ONLY by doing Good ONLY toward Creation in making it New [Revelation 21:5], Restoring it [Acts 3:21], Gathering it as one in Christ [Ephesians 1:10], Reconciling them all [Colossians 1:20] by His Mercy to all [Romans 11:32 in context of Romans 11:15 too]
----> in the end even NOT counting ‘all the world’s sins against them anymore’ when He does this Good ONLY [2 Corinthians 5:19]) all ‘as it is written’ Gloriously in Holy Scripture (‘Flawless’, Proverbs 30:5, Psalm 18:30, Psalm 12:6).
So, that’s How God has Predestined to ‘Overcome Evil by Good only’ (not through evil but despite evil which agrees with this verse too) as God ‘never’ changes from His Perfect Principles either:
“Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” – apostle Paul (Romans 12:21)
“But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:44 – 45)
How is God Good also toward those against Him?
Indeed, even allowing those who “break” His Commandments to enter or be in the kingdom of the Heavens eventually “despite” their ‘own evil’ & Judgment received proving that God Alone is Good & Perfect (Which Commandments are referred to by verse below, context? any Law, context is in verses prior to it, namely Matthew 5:17 – 18)
“Whoever then shall break one of the least of these commandments and shall teach others the same, he will be called least in the kingdom of the heavens; but whoever shall keep and shall teach them, he will be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:19)
Why?
“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:48)
He is that ‘same’ God from Ancient times too (God ‘never’ changed):
“We will certainly die and be like water poured out on the ground, which can't be recovered. But God would not take away a life; He would devise plans so that the one banished from Him does not remain banished." (2 Samuel 14:14)
‘Let us choose Holy Scripture over opinions’ – Unknown
“namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses (the world’s sins) against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.” (2 Corinthians 5:19)
*(Emphasis mine throughout)
P/S: Reality - Are we all connected to God right ‘now’?
With regards to existence (‘in Him we have our being’) & He gave us the ability to Choose our Acts (‘as we move’), yes (Acts 17:28, Colossians 1:17).
With regards to obeying His Word ---> not all of us yet (a temporal disconnection John 8:47, John 10:26, John 8:44, 1 John 3:10)
Those who obey Him are adopted back as sons of God by His Will (1 John 3:9, John 1:12 – 13, Romans 8:15) ----> rest of creation will be adopted back as children of God later as Romans 8:21 promises too!
Indeed,
“the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:8 – 9)
“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.” (John 1:12 – 13)
“For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" (Romans 8:15)
“My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;” (1 John 2:1)
‘Blessed Saviour of the World’
.
.
.
.
.
.
God’s Sovereignty – Will of Man – Will of the Flesh - How About Natural Disasters?
- Will of Man
Does Man have a choice or is he wired or programmed?
Firstly, Verses to understand ‘how God allows Man to have his own will’ (God decides these workings by His Sovereignty):
“Of man are arrangements of the heart, And from Jehovah an answer of the tongue.” (Proverbs 16:1)
“The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.” (Proverbs 16:9)
“Many plans are in a man's heart, But the counsel of the LORD will stand.” (Proverbs 19:21)
“I know, O LORD, that a man's way is not in himself, Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.” (Jeremiah 10:23)
This verse (Proverbs 16:1) and equivalent ones such as Jeremiah 10:23, Proverbs 16:9 and Proverbs 19:21 speak clearly of man given the “choice” to decide in his heart/mind (his ways) but regardless it is God who is in control in various aspects regarding this as explained below:
- ‘And from Jehovah an answer of the tongue’ = God decides to allow whether a man is able to answer from his tongue (giving man that ability of choice in his answer, not man having that ability apart from what is allowed by God first).
We know that ‘an answer’ from the ‘mouth of a man’ can ‘approve him’ (when it is in accordance to God’s Will) and can ‘condemn/judge him’ (when it is against God’s Will) as it is written & implied by the verse below also in regards to the ‘answer of the tongue’ in ‘man’ (the phrase your “own” words indicates that ‘man making that choice’ ultimately proving his responsibility over it is greatest) :
“For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 12:37)
The fact that one is given “choice” (the ability given by God first, as He allows our will to be such, His Foreknowledge & Sovereignty) even with regards to “our words” or “an answer from our tongue” is clearly mentioned in verse below too:
“Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruit.” (Proverbs 18:21)
The “choice” (opposites) in “an answer” ---> indicated by the phrase “death and life” (opposites) ---> given with respect to the “power of the tongue” (our will in our words) ----> causes the ‘fruit’ (result/consequence) accordingly.
What it does ‘not’ say is that ‘God pre-ordained me to speak that way’ for God gave a ‘choice’ on ‘how you can decide to speak’ according to ‘your words’ (chosen by your will’ and that God will judge it according to whether it is ‘right’ (in accordance to His Will - approved) or ‘wrong’ (against His Will - disapproved) accordingly.
- But the LORD directs his steps = the LORD gives sufficient Good Influence over man is the meaning of God ‘directing’ man’s steps proving that ‘He is Faithful’ as 1 Corinthians 10:13 gives this control measure with regards to the ‘will of man’ being able to ‘decide’ a ‘choice’ thereafter (an ‘evil’ influence may also be allowed without it being too much to bear beyond that man’s ability – a relative measure – as 1 Corinthians 10:13 also mentions this control factor).
The word ‘steps’ and the phrase ‘many plans are in a man's heart’ (opposite choices of Good and Evil too) indicates that a ‘choice’ is given to the ‘will of man’ by the LORD Himself Who ordains such a working in the first place.
Based on this ‘direction’ of the LORD over a man’s ‘steps’, Good Influence is allowed by the LORD directly toward the ‘Good choice according to His Will’ (James 1:17) while an Evil Influence is allowed (under the constraints mentioned in 1 Corinthians 10:13) as God allows it such toward the ‘Evil choice against His Will’ by creation’s own will from the ‘knowledge of evil’ in its heart or due to ‘creation’s influence of evil toward each other’ (James 1:13, Jeremiah 17:9, James 1:14 – 15 and especially Ecclesiastes 9:3 with regards to ‘evil’ in ‘man’).
God’s ‘direction’ in Man’s steps (His Good Influence as He is Faithful, 1 Corinthians 10:13) may be seen in ‘all’ cases in two ways as described in verses that follow:
(a) For those with His Law -----> From His Holy Word (or ‘Law’)
“Order my steps in Thy Word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.” (Psalm 119:133)
“for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.” (Romans 2:13)
“The steps of a man are established by the LORD, And He delights in his way.” (Psalm 37:23) ----> God ‘delights’ in the ‘Good Way’ only (Psalm 5:4) --> the word ‘delight’
(b) For those without His Law ---> God Gives ‘Good instinct’ and ‘Good Conscience’ (James 1:17)
This is sufficiently given in each case as verses below reveal with regards to the control measure ‘against the choice of evil’ by ‘will of creation’ ---> the ‘temptation’ choice toward evil -----> proving that ‘God is Faithful’ and ‘Doesn’t allow more than what one can bear’ keeping with His Perfect Principles in 1 Corinthians 10:13 too
“For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,” (Romans 2:14 – 15)
Thus, God Judges Perfectly:
“For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;” (Romans 2:12)
“On the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.” (Romans 2:16)
Nobody will have any excuse when God Judges according to the ‘revealed’ secrets in the hearts of man proving His Good Influence first and that any choice made toward evil (James 1:13 – 15) against these control measures as promised in 1 Corinthians 10:13 (seen as His Good gifts of the Law, Instinct & Conscience in Romans 2:13 - 15 agreeing with James 1:17 too) becomes a man’s own sin or responsibility ultimately.
“because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.” (Romans 1: 19 – 20)
“Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes--their own teeth will be set on edge.” (Jeremiah 31:30)
"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.” (Ezekiel 18:20)
A way out of this (hope)?
"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." – Lord Jesus Christ (John 8:24)
- But the counsel of the LORD will stand ---> prevail in the ‘end’ ----> against ‘all’ ‘plans that are in a man's heart’ (whether man chooses to carry these out or not by his own will according to the power God has given him)Thus, ‘but the counsel of the LORD will stand’ also implies that = God’s Actions ONLY after the Counsel of His Will will stand (Ephesians 1:8 – 11) ---> in the ‘end’ [indicated by the phrase “fulness of the times” (Ephesians 1:10)] ---> when God puts into effect this Plan ---> to gather ‘all things’ (all creation) as one in Christ (Ephesians 1:10) regardless ---> His Sovereignty to do by Christ’s Acts ONLY (Romans 3:3 – 4, Romans 3:22) ----> ‘despite’ creation’s temporal servitude of its own will into vanity (will of man/creation) of corruption (will of the flesh)
This means that God’s Acts cannot be frustrated in the ‘end’ (Romans 3:3 – 4, Ecclesiastes 3:11 & Ecclesiastes 3:14) ‘despite’ creation’s choice of good or evil in this temporal vanity (Ecclesiastes 3:2 – 10, Ecclesiastes 3:13, Ecclesiastes 3:19)
----> though Man may ‘carry’ out any of the ‘plan in his heart’ (Proverbs 19:21, Proverbs 16:1) even creation affecting each other to do evil (Ecclesiastes 8:11, Genesis 6:5, Matthew 15:18 - 19) due to ‘the gods’ too (Psalm 82:1, Psalm 82:6, 1 Corinthians 8:5) who did NOT execute Judgment against evil ‘immediately’ (a dominion to be able to ‘choose’ to do so given to them by God Himself Who Alone is the God of gods, Deuteronomy 10:17, as mysteriously mentioned in Psalm 82:2 – 4 & hinted in Ecclesiastes 8:11 too in principle) during this temporal vanity of ‘such choices of good or evil may be carried out too’ (Ecclesiastes 3:16, Luke 6:45) where God ordained a time (Ecclesiastes 3:1) for Man or creation too revealing His Foreknowledge with the ‘control measures’ given appropriately as well as described in 1 Corinthians 10:13 too
----> a choice for Man to be able to exercise ‘his own will’ (man’s works referred to here in Ecclesiastes 3:10 indicated by the phrase ‘the task given to the sons of men’ by God in reference to the ‘opposite choices’ granted such as ‘war vs peace’, ‘hate vs love’ which God allowed as mentioned in Ecclesiastes 3:2 – 8)
----> Thus God Judges the ‘choices’ done by any creation accordingly ‘under the sun’ (Ecclesiastes 3:17) eventually (Ecclesiastes 3:15)
How about God’s Work in all these or amidst all these or despite all these? (God does Good Works only which He does through Creation or by Himself, James 1:17)
---> Regardless of all these acts done by the will of creation by ‘their choice’, nothing frustrates God’s Will (His Works Alone contrasted against the background of creation’s will or more specifically man’s will or works is highlighted [but not limited to it] in this chapter to make ‘everything’ Beautiful in its Time (‘age’) in the End (Ecclesiastes 3:11, Ecclesiastes 3:14)
- God’s Sovereignty proves the existence of opposite cases too
[Please note that God Influences Good only, James 1:17 and does not cause Evil influence at all, James 1:13 with 1 John 1:5 & Psalm 5:4 but may allow it 1 Corinthians 10:13 according to the control measures such as stated in this verse]
God can allow that man to exercise his own will or stop it or cause an influence upon that man in such a way that even that man does not realize that it is from God
(a) a man's way is not in himself = God puts His Good Influences a man in righteousness through that man’s will even unknown to that man
(Example: king Cyrus of Persia whom God ‘aroused in righteousness’ [Isaiah 45:13] though Cyrus did ‘not’ know ‘God at all’ [Isaiah 45:5])
(b) a man's way is not in himself = God removes His Good Influence (the Cause: God removes His control measure as a ‘Judgment’ or ‘punishment’ for such men who ‘reject Him first’ by their ‘own’ will, Romans 1:21 – 23, Romans 1:25) causing such men to fall prey to their own evil desires of their hearts through a ‘debased/depraved mind’ to commit sin (the effect: Romans 1:24, Romans 1:28 - 32)
These ‘evil’ desires are from their ‘own’ hearts (Mark 7:21) and are done by their ‘own’ will of the flesh (to sin, Psalm 81:12) which God does NOT make them do but only removes His Good Influence due to the Effect of Judgment in such cases.
How God ‘directs’ a man’s steps? It is already discussed in point (ii) prior.
(c) Thus, God can do both (‘opposite’ cases, God causing men to do Good by influencing their ‘own’ will [e.g. Isaiah 45:5,13, James 1:17] versus causing men to do evil by their ‘own’ will without any influence of evil from God, Psalm 82:12 agreeing with James 1:13 in principle too) and such is the case of understanding verses such as Proverbs 21:1 where it states His Sovereignty (the meaning of ‘how’ God turns a king’s heart ‘wherever He wills’) .
- Will of the Flesh
- The Will of the Flesh is to desire contrary to the Spirit of God:
“For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.” (Galatians 5:17)
- To be led by the will of the Flesh is to do sin eventually (its deeds)
“Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19 – 21)
- To be led by His Spirit is to not sin and are led by Him
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.” (Galatians 5:22 – 25)
- A Choice: Obeying the Flesh is to be a slave of sin versus being a slave to God is Freedom
“For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.” (Romans 6:20)
“Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)
“Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.” (John 8:34)
“That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.” (1 Peter 4:2)
“for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.” (Romans 8:13)
“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.” (1 John 2:16)
“Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.” (2 Corinthians 3:17)
"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." (John 3:8)
- What is the difference between the Will of Man versus the Will of the Flesh versus the Will of God?
Firstly, the verse below clearly distinguishes each of the term below meaning that these are different:
“who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.” (John 1:13)
- Definition: Will of God = God’s Intent = Good Only (Psalm 9:8, James 1:17, Psalm 5:4)
“saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done." (Luke 22:42)
- Definition: Will of Man = Man’s Intent = to choose good or Evil (Deuteronomy 30:19, Deuteronomy 11:26, Proverbs 18:21, Jeremiah 21:8, Amos 5:14, Psalm 34:14, James 4:17, 1 Peter 3:11)
“Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God.” (3 John 1:11)
- Definition: Will of the Flesh = Flesh’s Intent = Influence of Evil from the Spiritual wickedness (Ephesians 2:2, Ephesians 5:6, Colossians 3:7, John 8:44, Acts 13:10)
The ‘Will of Flesh’ works according to a mysterious ‘Law of Sin & Death’ where these ‘influences of evil’ get a ‘foothold’ (opportunity) from the ‘devil’ due to ‘sin’ done ‘first’ by our ‘own will of man’ by ‘choice’ causing sin to have a dominion over us except when we are in Christ:
“and do not give the devil a foothold.” (Ephesians 4:27)
“For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law (of sin & Death), were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.” (Romans 7:5)
“For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.” (Ephesians 6:12)
“Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?” (Romans 7:24)
“For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.” (Romans 6:14)
“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.” (Romans 8:2)
Why is knowing and doing the Will of God in our lives is most important?
“Not everyone saying to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of My Father in the heavens.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:21)
- How about the Good Tests such as God tests Abraham to kill his son Isaac?
“Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am." (Genesis 22:1)
This is a different case entirely and a very rare one indeed.
How do we know that such a test is from God?
Eventually, by the end of the test ‘no’ evil will be ‘allowed’ to ‘happen’ as it is in the case of Abraham proving that God is Good. The killing of his son Isaac ‘never’ happened and God stopped it during this test (Hebrews 11:17, Genesis 22:12).
- How about the idea that God is morally responsible for evil in some way?
I disagree with the article in the point where the author puts the responsibility (a softer word for blame) on God for evil contradicting Job 1:22 and Psalm 5:4 and even James 1:13.
Doesn't 'put responsibility on God' = 'puts blame in some way upon God'?
“Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.” (Job 1:22)
If not please quote the author clarifying that, thank you.
Also, 1 John 1:5 doesn't support any blame for God on evil either.
Thus an exegesis pointing in that direction must be flawed somewhere ----> ‘where God is responsible in some way for evil’ ---> and instead of ‘pointing to the will of man causing his own foolishness by his own choices’ to his ‘own ruin’ ---> (an ability given fairly by God as 1 Corinthians 10:13 testifies too) and is clearly implied by the verse below too (please ponder deeply) ---> thus, any ‘anger’ against the LORD become meaningless when this wisdom is understood:
“The foolishness of man ruins his way, And his heart rages against the LORD.” (Proverbs 19:3)
- How about free will?
Agreed, no free will at all in determining anything absolutely. Let’s call it creation’s will instead.
But our will, it is meant with regards to only the choices which we are allowed to make (good or evil) as God put it within our control.
Those choices are being referred to in my writings.
God in His Sovereignty Ordained these ‘choices’ to be made via the ‘will of man’ under the Influence of the ‘Will of God’ (pointing to the Good choice) and the influence of the ‘will of the flesh’ (pointing to the evil choice) under ‘fair’ conditions (with the control measures that ‘God will not permit beyond what one can bear’ & ‘He is Faithful to provide as escape’ from the evil choice) always as promised in 1 Corinthians 10:13 with regards to this. The detail for each aspect mentioned here is discussed in point (3) earlier.
For example: A child being tortured by someone or a rape or a murder are examples of such choices made through the will of man.
Somebody is at fault for those gory cases and God will judge accordingly (as they caused evil upon those kids and innocent ones within their power, Ecclesiastes 3:17). God is NOT responsible in any way due to Him ‘allowing’ Evil by His Will only in such cases and will judge it later in His Anger toward the evil done.
- Why God didn’t stop such evil such as a rape immediately?
If God stopped every evil before they would occur by choice of creation, He would have created a creation with no choice which resembles the creation of an animal or a robot (wired or programmed in some way to responses and instincts; non-rational creation).
He did not will man and the other rational creation (e.g. angels) to be in such a way having the ‘ability’ of ‘choice’ instead especially ‘man’ who is created in God’s Image and God has the ‘Ability’ of ‘Choice’ but never does Evil at all! (God is NOT wired or programmed and such theories meet the end of the road in the aspect of NOT being compatible with the fact that ‘Man is in the Image of God’ too and likewise ability for choice in a limited way must thus exist in Man as well as it did before the fall itself).
But shouldn’t God have indirectly provided a way of response toward evil to be stopped immediately in all cases through some creation to be fair?
God did and He gave it to the ‘sons of the Most High’ (Psalm 82:6) such as Satan (2 Corinthians 4:4 , ‘god of this age’) together with his hosts too with the dominion given to them ‘as gods’ (Psalm 82:6, 1 Corinthians 8:5) ‘refuse’ to ‘stop evil immediately on earth’ by their OWN will’ which is given in their power as mentioned clearly in (Psalm 82:2 – 4) and instead ‘chose’ to ‘do evil’ instead against the Will of God (e.g. Genesis 6:2 – 5, Genesis 6:11 – 12). Thus, they will be judged accordingly for it too (Psalm 82:1, Psalm 82:8, Jude 1:6, 2 Peter 2:4, Revelation 20:10).
- Isn’t creating evil itself put the responsibility on God?
God is not responsible for evil similar because though He created Evil, He didn’t make anyone do it. It was a choice made by Creation.
To argue with His Foreknowledge that He approves evil or planned it is a Logical Fallacy and no Scripture says God is responsible for evil.
His Foreknowledge proves that He "allowed" evil which is Scriptural according to 1 Corinthians 10:13. The creation of evil doesn't put any responsibility on Him simply because He gave choices & is Faithful in His rendering of "allowing" evil (1 Corinthians 10:13).
The creation of evil not being His fault in any way is clearly implied by Job 1:22 & James 1:13 too. The best part is there are creation such as angels knowing good & evil too that ‘never’ fell proving that the ‘creation of evil’ does not imply a certain fall.
Why is Evil created or allowed then?
A reason why evil is "allowed" is to humble them (Ecclesiastes 1:13)
“And I have given my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom concerning all that hath been done under the heavens. It is a sad travail God hath given to the sons of man to be humbled by it.” (Ecclesiastes 1:13)
It is also "allowed" For Judgment too (John 3:19).
“'And this is the judgment, that the light hath come to the world, and men did love the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil;” (John 3:19)
- Can God be absent from Evil proving that He is not responsible for it?
Of course! This is for the case where creation does its own evil by its own will where God will judge it later (John 16:8, Hebrews 9:27, John 16:11, John 7:7).
God makes Himself having ‘no’ part in such evil (and it is NOT His Will in any way) simply because His Will consists of things pertaining to His “Pleasure” only & the verse below proves that ‘no’ such evil or wickedness are ‘His Pleasure’ at all (e.g. a rape, murder etc. is never His Plan for the all things, Ephesians 1:10 -11 simply because ‘only things pertaining to His Pleasure’ are His Will according to Isaiah 46:10 too when seen together):
“For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil dwells with You.” (Psalm 5:4)
As points (6) and (7) mention, ‘choice’ is an important element given under fair conditions and point (8) explains more as to why evil is created or allowed in the first place.
- But didn’t God harden the Pharaoh’s heart and likewise cause the binding of disobedience in all according to Exodus 9:12 & Romans 11:32 respectively making Him responsible for evil ultimately?
This is often a common confusion & fallacy due to viewing this case in the wrong timeline (ignoring the “time” as to ‘when did God make the Pharaoh’s heart to be hardened’ onwards ----> leading to a false overall conclusion if this part is not considered correctly).
“Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment.” (Ecclesiastes 8:5)
The misinterpretation assumes that God did the ‘hardening or binding’ FIRST from which such disobedient ones then sinned which God simply did NOT.
Worst still is to take that faulty time-ignored Pharaoh analogy and apply it to a case where say a rape or murder is done ---> and then claim that God is responsible for it -----> because God is ‘claimed’ to have ‘hardened’ that rapist or murderer’s heart FIRST ---> leading to those atrocities. This is faulty logic for a simple reason that these are ‘different cases’:
Pharaoh's case is ----> referring to God's Judgment to display His Power over Pharaoh’s evil (God’s Power of Judgment is referred to here because God only Judged against the Pharaoh when the encounter between God and Pharaoh happened via Moses, Romans 9:17)
God did not display His Power through those innocent children being butchered or raped by madmen. These are different cases as Pharaoh’s OWN evil prior speak of a similar case (before God’s Judgment met him). The evil done by Pharaoh by his own acts prior and those done by the rapists & murderers is referring to a case described in point (1) earlier.
Regarding the Pharaoh’s case ---> Truth is, please consider with ‘time’ consideration:
The Judgment Case
God hardened the Pharaoh's heart so that he does not release the children of Israel because God doesn't want the Pharaoh to escape His Judgment.
Why?
Pharaoh's evil by his actions prior is too much and God wants to Judge it.
The hardening of Pharaoh's heart does NOT refer to his own evils which he has been doing prior with his slaves for a long time earlier.
Scripture mentions clearly of the hardening of the Pharaoh's heart to make him 'not' to release the children of Israel & not when 'he was innocent' and God just simply decided to harden his heart so to cause Pharaoh to sin as popularly & conveniently misinterpreted.
‘Question your exegesis not Scripture’ - Unknown
Furthermore, this does NOT apply to God hardening a rapist to rape etc. as that’s a different case as described in point (1) earlier.
A logic why God ‘overruled’ Pharaoh’s will and choice by hardening his heart (to be unable to make the opposite decision) ----> with regards to Judgment Principle in Isaiah 3:11 where one is only rendered according to the ‘evil’ which one has ‘done FIRST’.
In the Pharaoh’s case, he has been making slaves out of the Israelites and others ‘against their will´ (because nobody willingly becomes a slave to the Pharaoh) -----> even ‘treating them cruelly’ FIRST ---> God later returns this ‘same’ Judgment ---> of disabling Pharaoh’s decision making ability ‘against His Will’ ----> by ‘hardening’ the Pharaoh ----> to Judge the Pharaoh with the same level of cruelness he has shown to the slaves ----> God also allowed the ‘angel of Death’ to slay all these firstborn of the Pharaoh & Egyptians simply because they ‘killed’ & even ‘enslaved’ plenty of firstborns and other children of the slaves terrorizing them & torturing them for a ‘long time’ before this ‘hardening’ of his heart ever happened. So, God’s Judgment is Perfectly equal to the sin committed earlier FIRST.
The verses speaking of His hardening or binding in disobedience of all must be understood in like manner (as God's Perfection cannot be compromised) ---> that God 'hardens' or 'binds' in disobedience as a Judgment ---> to punish them severely later because of their OWN sins first by their OWN will earned them such a punishment (Isaiah 3:11) ---> as the analogy of the Pharaoh also proves (the same principle must apply elsewhere though details may be hidden because God has no partiality in Judgment too).
- Does the phrase ‘God in is Control all the time’ means that He must be present in evil done by creation’s will and thus be responsible for it in some way?
No, another common fallacy rings in question above (referring to the evil done first as in case 1 with regards to Judgment too).
Truth is (according to the verse below), God can be ‘absent’ from the ‘evil’ which He ‘allows’ creation to do by its ‘own’ will (proving creation’s choice again to do ‘evil’ on ‘its own’, e.g. John 8:44, since God is NOT present but absent when such ‘evil’ is allowed as the verse below clearly states; best still, ‘God’ Himself is speaking it!):
God is "not" among us verse ---> as God in His Sovereignty can allow such a case & evil befalls them too (with regards to Judgment as they forsook God FIRST):
(God says), “I will forsake them, and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, ‘Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?’ ” (Deuteronomy 31:17, NKJV).
"For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time." (Revelation 12:12)
God will ‘allow’ various Judgments too according to the ‘acts of sins’ done FIRST by men as prophesied in the Book of Revelation too (an example):
“They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.” (Revelation 9:4)
A control measure present in Judgment:
“And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.” (Revelation 9:5)
The pain and torment will match the evil done prior by these men FIRST agreeing to Isaiah 3:11 in Principle (though the full details of their sins remain unrevealed yet):
“And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death flees from them.” (Revelation 9:6)
God ‘allows’ this Evil Judgment upon them matching their ‘own’ evil acts first without Him doing it but probably one of ‘their own gods’ whom they have served in principle too prior without realizing through their ‘sins’ done prior (a plausible thought agreeing to many verses such as Isaiah 3:11, Galatians 6:7):
“They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon.” (Revelation 9:11)
Conclusion
To me, God is right in the process and in the end.
There is no blame on God for evil.
Yes He triumphs ultimately against everything against Him including all the 'blame for evil on Him' as well. Truly, God will be 'all in all' (1 Corinthians 15:25 – 28) in the ‘end’.
"Never may it be! But let God be true, and every man a liar, as it has been written: "That You (God) may be justified in Your words, and will prevail in Your being judged." (Romans 3:4)
‘If your exegesis doesn’t prove that God is Right, you are wrong’ – Anonymous
P/S: How about Natural Disasters?
I think there are three major classification of it as follows:
- Natural Disasters due to God’s Judgment
God “only allows” direct “evil Judgment” (referring to this case only) through calamities or ‘direct Judgments’ as discussed earlier too if and only if ‘there was NO righteous person left among them’ as ‘it is written’ in verse below (and God does NOT change from this ‘Principle’ either):
“Then he said, “Oh may the Lord not be angry, and I shall speak only this once; suppose ten are found there?” And He said, “I will not destroy it on account of the ten.” As soon as He had finished speaking to Abraham the LORD departed, and Abraham returned to his place.” (Genesis 18:32 – 33)
““The righteous man perishes, and no man takes it to heart; And devout men are taken away, while no one understands. For the righteous man is taken away from evil,” (Isaiah 57:1)
Abraham understood that and did ‘not’ bargain further to the LORD for sparing Sodom.
Likewise in the New Testament, the verse below clearly points to this ‘same principle’ that God will not allow by His own Judgment an evil that destroys the ‘righteous together with it’ (God’s Principles in Judgment reveal these and God does NOT change):
“And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ “But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. ‘ALLOW both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’ – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 13:28 – 30)
God doesn’t kill any of the righteous with “His Judgment sentences”. The ‘righteous are only killed via unfair causes due to another creation’s free will including man or the spiritual wickedness’.
We assume that many are righteous & blame God for natural disasters which are due to His Judgment but it is actually very rare to find those righteous due to their "OWN" Righteousness achieved by faith in God (though this is not achieved independent of God but through God's Strength).
Here is an example of how rare it is
"Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD." (Ezekiel 14:14)
- Natural Disasters due to Man’s own Folly
Example: Flash floods happening due to lack of proper irrigation systems or landslides due to uncontrolled deforestation.
This is a case of natural disasters due to creation's will by its own actions such as flash floods due to improper irrigation system in a city. These are consequences of our own foolishness not to be confused with God's Judgment case discussed earlier when He judges as in the case of Sodom or Noah too.
- Natural Disasters due to the ‘evil’ done by the ‘gods’?
There is possibly a third case of how natural disasters could happen and its due to the operation of the gods (Psalm 82:1) who bring about natural disasters to do evil with Satan as’ god of this age’ (2 Corinthians 4:4).
He is allowed that evil due to Mankind forsaking God so it still relates To Judgment in some way but kinda like God is Absent from it and lets Satan decide because people's action want it so by "rejecting God first". Here's a verse that proves evils which happen under that understanding as it is written:
Speaking of those who choose to follow Satan, God says, “I will forsake them, and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, ‘Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?’ ” (Deuteronomy 31:17, NKJV).
Context (God ‘allows’ Satan to do ‘evil’; Satan decides to do evil, he can say ‘no’ but didn’t; God never commanded Satan to do evil to Job as some exegesis err but only “allowed” Satan to decide that, indicated by the phrase ‘he is in your power’ = ‘allowing Job to be inflicted by evil if Satan wanted to proceed’ even giving the mitigation ‘not to take his life’, principles agreeing to 1 Corinthians 10:13 as discussed prior even with regards to the control measures as well!):
“So the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your power, only spare his life.” (Job 2:6)
“Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.” (Job 2:7)
“While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants and consumed them, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” (Job 1:16)
“But he (Job) said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.” (Job 2:10)
The ‘receiving evil’ (Job 2:10) is basically God ‘allowing’ evil (Job 2:6) and Satan deciding to do it by his own choice (Job 2:7) and the people mistook Satan’s work as God’s Fire (Job 1:16). End.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Salvation by His Mercy: Relation between Faith and Works too
The Quote in picture reminds me of these verses
(i) Regarding Salvation by Grace Alone ("His Mercy") with "no" contribution by works in any way:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." (Ephesians 2:8 - 9)
"He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit," (Titus 3:5)
(ii) Works as the 'perfection' of faith & as a proof of a faith that is living (active, "not dead")
"You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;" (James 2:22)
"Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself." (James 2:17)
Conclusion
In fact, the "Utmost work of God" to which we are called to do are 'not' good works 'first' but rather to believe 'first':
"Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29)
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (Romans 3:28)
P/S:
1) So, who then will be saved?
The one upon whom God shows Mercy ('His Choice Alone')
"For He says to Moses: "I will show mercy to whom I may show mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I may have compassion." (Romans 9:15)
"So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy." (Romans 9:16)
2) How is God fair then?
Will this 'Salvation' of God by His Grace (Mercy) eventually apply to "all" or 'believers only'?
It will eventually apply to 'all men' (Titus 2:11, 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 4:10, 1 Corinthians 15:22, Romans 5:19) as prophesied from ancient times itself (2 Samuel 14:14) & toward 'all creation in the world' eventually (Romans 3:23, Romans 3:19, Romans 3:22, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Romans 8:20 - 21) too as 'His Mercy' is for 'all' (Romans 11:32, 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 John 2:2) eventually and 'all creation' will be "born again" ('given to birth again when the birth pangs or labor pains are over', Romans 8:22) as 'it is written' too in verses below ('beyond Judgment of the dead as well', James 2:13, 1 Peter 4:5 - 6), listed in order below:
"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men," (Titus 2:11)
"Who (God) will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4)
"For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers." (1 Timothy 4:10)
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1 Corinthians 15:22)
"For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the ("same") many will be made righteous." (Romans 5:19)
"We will certainly die and be like water poured out on the ground, which can't be recovered. But God would not take away a life; He would devise plans so that the one banished from Him does not remain banished." (2 Samuel 14:14)
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23)
"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." (Romans 3:19, KJV)
"Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:" (Romans 3:22, KJV)
"namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their ('the world's) trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation." (2 Corinthians 5:19)
"For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God." (Romans 8:20 - 21)
"For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all." (Romans 11:32)
"Who (Lord Jesus Christ) gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper times." (1 Timothy 2:6)
"and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." (1 John 2:2)
"For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now." (Romans 8:22)
"For judgment is without mercy to the one who hasn't shown mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment." (James 2:13)
"but they will give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to the dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God." (1 Peter 4:5 - 6)
3) How will all be saved in the end?
By the Mysterious 'Faith OF Jesus Christ' Alone, hence All Glory to God Alone:
"and the righteousness of God is through the Faith OF Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference," (Romans 3:22, YLT)
4) What if some did not believe?
Unbelief (Habakkuk 1:5) merits Judgment in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8) but it can never nullify the 'Faith of God = Faith OF Jesus Christ' (Romans 3:3 - 4, 22, 2 Timothy 2:13, James 1:17) to 'Save' them in the end, beyond Judgment:
"Look among the nations! Observe! Be astonished! Wonder! Because I am doing something in your days-- You would not believe if you were told." (Habakkuk 1:5)
"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)
"For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the Faith OF God without effect? Absolutely not! God must be true, even if everyone is a liar, as it is written: That You (God) may be justified in Your words and triumph when You judge." (Romans 3:3 - 4)
"Even the righteousness of God which is by Faith OF Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:" (Romans 3:22)
"If we believe not, yet He abideth Faithful: He (Lord Jesus Christ) cannot deny Himself." (2 Timothy 2:13, KJV)
"Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow." (James 1:17)
5) Gospel = Good News for "all creation" in the "whole world"
"And He (Lord Jesus Christ) said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation." (Mark 16:15)
The Gospel includes this Great Secret or Mystery of the Reconciliation of "All things Created" (all creation) eventually as 'it is plainly written in Holy Scripture' too (Colossians 1:16, 20, 26):
"For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him." (Colossians 1:16)
"and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in the heavens." (Colossians 1:20)
"that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints," (Colossians 1:26)
Hence, God 'never' changed from being the "Saviour of All" and Judgment is an intermediate process & not an end in itself.
*(Emphasis mine throughout)
Indeed,
"And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children." (Isaiah 54:13)
“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus replied. “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
It is written in the prophets: 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me--" (John 6:43 - 45)
"The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand." (John 3:35)
"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." - Lord Jesus Christ (John 6:37)
"And they said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard Him (Lord Jesus) ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world." (John 4:42)
"We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world." (1 John 4:14)
"That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world." (John 13:35)
"Jesus answered him, "You do not know what I am doing now, but you will understand later." (John 13:7)
'Blessed Saviour of the World'
Comment:
Opinion or Scripture? - As is it written
1) Can we take Scripture as it is written?
Yes, verse:
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness,” (2 Timothy 3:16)
2) But doesn’t Scripture have errors and thus it represents what the authors thought about it at that time?
Nope, no errors as 2 Timothy 3:16 above proves the Inspiration of the Original Scripture.
The Originals are Perfect. Copyist errors remain as copyist errors.
That’s why we refer to the Majority preserved texts which are closest in meaning to the Originals and are used by Bible Scholars in translation.
3) But what if I have a different opinion against the Biblical verses?
Firstly, between your "opinion" and "verses quoted", I will stick to Holy Scripture. No worries sir, it's "your choice" not to obey Scripture which doesn't affect anything from the dawn of creation and neither to the restoration of it.
Thy opinion against Scripture is flawed and not Holy Scripture. I will stick to "as it is written".
4) But, you realize that the verses quoted are to support your *opinion* right? You can pull verses out of context from all over the bible to support almost any opinion. Example, some claim that the earth is flat.
Wrong, actually. Scripture only states what it states.
People add or remove from the Original meaning to claim things which are not written nor pointed to in Holy Scripture.
An example would be 1 Corinthians 14:34. I am pretty sure that you and your scholars would have some “opinion against” that Word of God.
The earth is approximately in a shape of a “circle” as it is written in verse below too:
“It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.” (Isaiah 40:22)
5) Should we follow what is written in the Bible then? Isn’t it archaic?
Your point of contention to not follow what is written doesn't move me.
I should follow what you write against Scripture? That's ridiculous.
You may carry on with those who prefer your writing above written Scripture.
6) When that letter (1 Corinthians) was written, it wasn't intended to be used as a catch all for everyone who came after and there are cultural contexts in relation to the women of that church and acceptable ways of conducting yourself in society at the time. So yes more than the face value matters. Otherwise I hope you've gouged out any eyes and cut off any hands that make you sin.
Again, opinions with “no” verses stating what ‘you & your scholars claimed’. Here are the ‘Biblical facts’ with ‘verses’:
(i) Gorging of your eyes and cutting off of your hand is not commanded but is mentioned to be "a better option" than being cast into Hell (Gehenna) in “comparison” which is true "as it is written":
“If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:29, NASB)
(ii) Plus there is no figurative language but a factual one in 1 Corinthians 14:34
“let the women be silent in the churches. For it is not allowed to them to speak, but to be in submission, as the Law also says.” (1 Corinthians 14:34)
Figurative and parabolic Scripture are distinct from factual ones. It's sad that you can't see a distinction between each.
Also, God's Rule is not based on man made culture and it applies to all believers (whoever they are) within a covenant. 1 Corinthians 14:37 clearly implies this through Apostle Paul's writings as ‘it is written’:
“If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment.” (1 Corinthians 14:37)
To disobey and twist is your choice, but I don't buy such shallowness.
(iii) Regarding these New Testament laws and conducts which God revealed through apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 14:37), it is the “same” in other churches too at that time.
God also revealed through His Prophets elsewhere and "not" only to the Corinthian church.
Here is that proof verse and though we may not understand how God did it, it must be through His Holy Spirit teaching the "same" thing directly to all "churches" of God 'as it is written':
"But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God." (1 Corinthians 11:16)
I won't comment further and if you still have any further "contentions", please bring it up to God and apostle Paul who wrote it as it is written to be the "same" to all "churches" of God in the last verse above too.
All these are a time based command for the New Testament age (1 Corinthians 14:37) as revealed through apostle Paul and to the obedient early church believers too.
Just because it is ignored, unknown or not preached or not realised by our 'prophets', it all remains "True" regardless "as it is written".
(iv) It is the “same” within the New Covenant for ‘all believers’ because God speaks only the ‘same’ thing as He spoke to the ‘apostle of the Gentiles, apostle Paul Himself’ for this age:
“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” (1 Corinthians 1:10)
7) Only women who ‘obey’ God’s Word and obey their husbands (for those married) are justified & are called ‘daughters of Sarah’ as it is written:
“just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.” (1 Peter 3:6)
Thus, to be as close as possible to His Truth, it is best to follow the New Testament verses as God revealed it through apostle Paul. I have ‘no’ new change to add nor any mandate from God to remove anything from any of these verses ‘as it is written’.
Peace
Please be "wise" and don’t be deceived.
P/S:
Holy Scripture is to be believed, accepted and taken as it is written. God did NOT subject it to be interpreted against what is written and more so by our opinions. God Forbid! Any explanation or interpretation must be in line of agreeing to what is written and not against it. Translated correctly first, of course.
