Preterism’s Allegorical vs Bible Literal or Both?
Let’s Begin.
The Rich Man Lazarus is Literally True and it has a Parable meaning which is True as Well.
Scripture is like that.
Yes, Irenaeous affirms the LITERAL meaning as TRUE as follows:
(i) LITERAL Truth of Rich Man and Lazarus Story
To quote:
The Rich Man and Lazarus Story is LITERAL
“The Lord has taught with very great fulness, that souls not only continue to exist, not by passing from body to body, but that they preserve the same form [in their separate state] as the body had to which they were adapted, and that they remember the deeds which they did in this state of existence, and from which they have now ceased,-in that narrative which is recorded respecting the rich man and that Lazarus who found repose in the bosom of
Abraham.
In this account He states that Dives knew Lazarus after death, and Abraham in like manner, and that each one of these persons continued in his own proper position, and that [Dives] requested Lazarus to be sent to relieve him [Lazarus], on whom he did not [formerly] bestow even the crumbs [which fell] from his table.
[He tells us] also of the answer given by Abraham, who was acquainted not only with what respected himself, but Dives also, and who enjoined those who did not wish to come into that place of torment to believe Moses and the prophets, and to receive the preaching of Him who was to rise again from the dead.
By these things, then, it is plainly declared that souls continue to exist that they do not pass from body to body, that they possess the form of a man, so that they may be recognised, and retain the memory of things in this world; moreover, that the gift of prophecy was possessed by Abraham, and that each class of souls] receives a habitation such as it has deserved, even before the judgment.” (St. Irenaeous of Lyons, ‘Against Heresies’, Book II, Chapter XXXIV.-Souls Can Be Recognised in the Separate State, and are Immortal Although They Once Had a Beginning, Point 1)
Page 116 in the Book.
Please note that Irenaeous clearly mentions that Moses and the Prophets knew this though it may not be explicitly written prior to this level of details in the Old Testament, being a ‘hidden’ living up to the Name of Sheol meaning Hidden too.
(ii) ALLEGORICAL Truth of Rich Man and Lazarus Story
To quote:
“Martin Luther taught that the story was a parable about rich and poor in this life and the details of the afterlife not to be taken literally:
Therefore we conclude that the bosom of Abraham signifies nothing else than the Word of God,…. the hell here mentioned cannot be the true hell that will begin on the day of judgment. For the corpse of the rich man is without doubt not in hell, but buried in the earth; it must however be a place where the soul can be and has no peace, and it cannot be corporeal. Therefore it seems to me, this hell is the conscience, which is without faith and without the Word of God, in which the soul is buried and held until the day of judgment, when they are cast down body and soul into the true and real hell. (Church Postil 1522–23)”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_man_and_Lazarus
Because the Rich Man and Lazarus Story directly contradicts Martin Luther’s “soul sleep theory”, he rejects the ‘literal interpretation’. It’s obvious.
Conclusion
Personally, I can believe in the allegorical meaning of the Rich Man and Lazarus Story (as a second meaning) & Preterism as a “mirror / shadow” (“Pattern”, NOT actual) to the ‘Final Actual Antichrist’s Manifestation’ (“Substance”, Actual in Principle of Colossians 2:17, Hebrews 8:5, Hebrews 10:1) ——-> meaning that I can accept BOTH POSITIONS with “no” Contradictions to THE LITERAL meaning either.
This leaves only you & your scholars to be proud enough to “deny” the “LITERAL meaning part”. We accept both the LITERAL meaning and the ALLEGORICAL meaning set forth in Holy Scripture (FULL Truth as opposed to your ‘half truth + denial attitudes’).
I have done my research on the Daniel Prophecies too (Please find some if it in say Pages 383 – 388 from book in link below):
I will stick to “First Christianity” while you can stick to “the latter Christianity of Preterism which seem to exist 17th Century only, strange indeed”.
You and your scholars may think that you are “smarter than Irenaeous in your newly formed schools” —–> but we don’t practice such arrogance.
I’m pretty sure Irenaeous who knew Polycarp who directly knew Apostle John who wrote Revelation KNOWS what the PROPHECIES of the BOOK of REVELATION are (and it’s certainly NOT Preterism).
P/S: History of Preterism
To quote:
“Historically, preterists and non-preterists have generally agreed that the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar (1554–1613) wrote the first systematic preterist exposition of prophecy—Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (published in 1614)—during the Counter-Reformation.”
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism
Yes, the “fallacious” argument presented in support of Preterism is equivalent to ‘matching patterns technique’** —-> namely that just because something matches, it doesn’t mean its true (it’s just a “pattern” as the Antichrist methodology is repeated several times in these ‘last days’ within this ‘AGE’* from Nero to Hitler which can match the Revelation Prophecies in many ways – as Conspiracy Theorists have shown on the Internet too).
**Matching Patterns Technique – ‘fallacy’
For example: Both the Circle and Square has the sum of interior angles to be “360 degrees”, hence “circle = square” (that’s ‘how Preterism’s matching Pattern to Prophecy Technique is Done Fallaciously’). Just because ‘some aspects’ match does NOT mean that ‘all aspects match’. We must NOT jump to rash conclusions.
An AGE is split to DAYS as ‘2 Peter 3:18 highlights the “Messianic”, ‘DAY of the AGE’ (YLT) referring to the Last Day of this age for the 1000 Millennial Reign —> which was pointed out to Daniel too for “his lot” at the ‘end of DAYS’ in this AGE1 (Daniel 12:13).
“and increase ye in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ; to him is the glory both now, and to the [Last] DAY of the AGE [AGE1]! Amen.” (2 Peter 3:18, YLT)
“And thou, go on to the end, then thou dost rest, and dost stand in thy lot at the END of the DAYS [Last Day or AGE1].” (Daniel 12:13, YLT)
[Emphasis Mine in Brackets]
Yes, Daniel may have been Resurrected (Matthew 27:52 – 53) but he does NOT receive “his lot” till they are Perfected with “us” (Hebrews 11:39 – 40) when Christ Returns and the “First Resurrection” happens (1 Thessalonians 4:16) for “all believers in Faith of Jesus Christ only” (1 Thessalonians 4:13, Revelation 20:5) to ‘receive their lot during the ‘start hour’ (John 5:25) at the Last Day of this Current Age, AGE1 to Reign for a Thousand years first’ (Revelation 20:4 – 6).
Only the Gullible believe in Preterism “only”. It’s NOT an Orthodox Position in any way and so we REJECT it. To ACCEPT BOTH the LITERAL and ALLEGORICAL meaning is the BEST and RESPECTFUL way which has NO CONTRADICTIONS.
Can you SEE it now?
Remember, it’s the preterists who “came later” and insulted orthodoxy such as claiming Justin Martyr, Irenaeous and Hippolytus of Rome to be “wrong” in their exegesis of Revelation —–> and if we state the facts from FIRST CHRISTIANITY and CHURCH HISTORY, you guys seem to get very Angry?
Please don’t be deceived further as even history is NOT on your side:
“Heresies are young, Truth is Old”
Peace to you
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