All Accuracy – Emphasis – All again
(Revisiting Question .8.)
But before that, here’s a verse:
“Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?” (John 3:10, NASB)
Here’s a question too: ‘how many forevers do we need in a sentence?’ Verse:
“But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.” (Daniel 7:18, KJV)
Here’s a more accurate translation of that verse:
“But the saints of the Highest One will receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, for all ages to come.” (Daniel 7:18, NASB)
And, here’s an even more accurate translation of that same Verse in a more literal translation:
“and receive the kingdom do the saints of the Most High, and they strengthen the kingdom unto the age, even unto the age of the ages.” (Daniel 7:18, YLT)
Can you REALLY see the similarity and differences in each of the translations quoted for that ‘same verse’?
Let’s Re-Consider Seriously ‘What Saith the Scriptures?’
In Question 8 below (perhaps you missed it earlier), we refute the common fallacy that His Reign is forever and ever.
Wait, doesn’t that sound like blasphemy?
Nope, patience please. Do note as discussed in detail below, we show that Holy Scripture teaches that His Reign (the Verb) has an END and is directed toward His enemies ONLY.
As believers, we “Reign (the Verb)” with Him as it is Written in both 2 Timothy 2:12 and Revelation 11:15 toward “His Enemies” too (as it is also Written in Revelation 2:27 and is seen together with Acts 2:35, Luke 20:43 and Psalm 110:1).
Before I list those verses down here (next), please note this Fact that as archangel Gabriel himself said in Luke 1:33 —-> His Reign (the Verb) has an END which is at the END of the ages (subset) —-> but His “Reign = Kingdom” (the Noun) has NO END.
This is important since the punishment of the worst sinner of all, Satan himself is mentioned to be to the “ages of Ages” only (in Revelation 20:10) which is the exact same phrase used to describe the duration of Christ’s Reign over His Enemies (Revelation 11:15) where we (believers) co-reign with Him (Revelation 2:27, 2 Timothy 2:12) —-> where this Reign (the Verb) is ONLY to the “ages” (subset, Luke 1:33) of the Total Ages time period (Revelation 11:15, Revelation 20:10) —–> and this Reign (the Verb) ENDS (1 Corinthians 15:24) when Lord Jesus Christ has achieved putting all His Enemies under His Feet (1 Corinthians 15:25, Psalm 110:1) —-> yes, the word “till” or “until” found in Psalm 110:1 and 1 Corinthians 15:25 which describes “His Reign (the Verb)” proves an END to this Reign toward His Enemies when they eventually “subject in Love” too toward Him (1 Corinthians 15:26 – 28).
Understanding this is important since His Reign (the Verb) is mentioned to be as long as the “ages of Ages” (Revelation 11:15) which is also the ‘same time period or duration of punishment for Satan’ (as this exact phrase, ‘eons of the Eons’ is found in Revelation 20:10 as well) which is thus implied to have an END (1 Corinthians 15:24) as it refers to “His Reign (the Verb)” toward His Enemies (in 1 Corinthians 15:25) which is to the “subset of the ages only” (Luke 1:33) as claimed.
So, the Bible itself explains the meaning of “ages of Ages” to mean to the “ages” (subset only) out of the total “Ages” (Larger Set) of the time-period defined which in light of describing “His Reign (the Verb)”, we clearly see that this phrase does NOT mean ‘forever, as erred popularly’ since it has an END which is TILL or UNTIL His Enemies are put under His Feet.
Conclusion
So, the punishment of the worst sinner of all, Satan himself is to the “ages” only (a long but limited time period with a beginning and an end) out of the total “Ages”, i. e. to the “ages of Ages” only which has an END as it is used to describe His Reign (the Verb) which ends by the end of this same time period as well.
Thus, if the worst sinner’s punishment is NOT forever as popularly erred, no other afterlife punishment sentence (e. g. for men) are forever either making sense of the Good News of the Gospel which is Universal Reconciliation in Christ Jesus Alone eventually (e. g. 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28, Colossians 1:16 with Colossians 1:20, 1 Timothy 4:10, John 12:32, 1 Timothy 2:4, John 12:32, John 6:37, 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:14, John 1:29, Romans 11:32, Ephesians 1:10, Acts 3:21, Revelation 21:5, Ecclesiastes 3:11).
Can we REALLY UNDERSTAND this Truth IRREFUTABLY now?
Quoted Verses (Please note the words “until” or “till”, “end”, “Reign (the Verb)”, “enemies” and “ages” or “ages of Ages” too to understand this rarely known Biblical Truth Accurately):
“Until I make Thy foes Thy Footstool.” (Acts 2:35, KJV)
“Till I make Thine enemies Thy Footstool.” (Luke 20:43, KJV)
“A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your Feet.” (Psalm 110:1, NASB)
“‘He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS;
AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father;
and I will give him the morning star. ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Revelation 2:26 – 29, NASB)
“If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;” (2 Timothy 2:12, NASB)
“And the seventh messenger [angel] did sound, and there came great voices in the heaven, saying, ‘The kingdoms of the world did become those of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign to the ages of the Ages!” (Revelation 11:15, YLT)
“and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night — to the ages of the Ages.” (Revelation 20:10, YLT)
“and He [Lord Jesus Christ] shall Reign [the Verb] over the house of Jacob to the ages; and of His Reign [more accurately, Kingdom-the-Noun] there shall be no end.” – Archangel Gabriel (Luke 1:33, YLT)
“then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.” (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 25, NASB)
Remember, it is important for our ‘faith’ as Christians to understand this concept (time period) of the “Ages” as it’s mentioned clearly in the chapter on faith itself, namely Hebrews 11 (can we realize this too? seen only in ‘accurate translations’):
“by faith we understand the Ages to have been prepared by a saying of God, in regard to the things seen not having come out of things appearing;” (Hebrews 11:3, YLT)
*where the END in 1 Corinthians 15:24 which is inclusive of 1 Corinthians 15:25 till ‘God becomes All in All’ (1 Corinthians 5:28) —> refers to the END or ENDS of the AGES when seen with the ‘Reign (the Verb)’ as it occurs in 1 Corinthians 15:25 together with the Verses in Luke 1:33 and also Revelation 11:15.
For further details, please consider the ‘other side of the coin from the eternal Hell camp first’ (John 7:51) and a reply later according to this, as follows:
Can you SEE it?
Question 8
In Revelation 20, it says that the Devil will be tormented in the lake of Fire “FOREVER AND EVER”. You can argue that the term “forever” can be used to denote a “to an age”, but the dual phrase “forever and ever” (Aeon of aeons) is always a term used to denote “endless”. Scripture tells us that “God shall reign forever and ever”. It is impossible to make this have a termination date. Matthew 25 indicates that the wicked goats will shared in the same inheritance as the devil and his angels with “eternal punishments” while the righteous go to “eternal life”. If eternal life is endless, then hermeneutical so is “eternal punishment” found in the same verse.
The writer of Hebrews said that for some “it is IMPOSSIBLE to be bring them back to repentance” (Hebrews 6). If they eventually get saved then he could not use the term “impossible”.
The writer of Hebrews also says that for some of the wicked “there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins” (Hebrews 10). How can anyone ever get saved in this life or the ages to come when the “NO LONGER remains a sacrifice for sins”?
Reply 8
Firstly, the Mistranslation you quote is not true because the punishment of Satan is actually mentioned to the ages (subset, a long but limited time period only) out of the Ages (Larger set) in Revelation 20:10, as seen only with a literal translation. It’s not forever and ever as popularly erred in translation.
Also, the age-during life as mentioned in Matthew 25:46 is defined by Scripture NOT to mean endless life (where is the verse which says this?) but rather surprising to most, it ‘refers to knowing the True God & Jesus Christ Whom He has sent’ as the ONLY Scriptural definition of ‘age-during life’ is found in verse below:
“and this is the life age-during, that they may know Thee, the only True God, and Him whom Thou didst send — Jesus Christ;” (John 17:3, YLT)
Here’s a more accurate translation using the phrase age-during life in related verses below:
“who may not receive back manifold more in this time, and in the coming age, life age-during.” (Luke 18:30, YLT)
“And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.” (Matthew 25:46, YLT)
So, John 17:3 speaks or means that during the ‘age-during life’ experienced by the believers in the coming age (Luke 18:30, Matthew 25:46), we get to ‘know Him’. It has nothing to do with the definition of endless life or immortality as John 17:3 clearly defines it as a ‘time period of an age [etymology or lexicography or usage of the word age]’ for which the Bible Verse mentions that we (believers) get to ‘know the only True God and Jesus Christ’.
So, the argument of yours regarding ‘endless life’ when it refers to ‘age-during life’ is NOT found in Scripture but was first erred by Augustine of Hippo himself who used a human reasoning instead of a verse to define ‘eternal life’ which is clearly NOT the Biblical meaning as given in John 17:3 as well as the fact that the etymology or lexicography or usage of the word “aion” or “eon” refers to “age” only (a limited but unknown time period, usually long in duration too but with a beginning and an end).
Here are some reads regarding “aion” or “eons” or other equivalent phrases to that:
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/matthew-2546-punishment-of-men-aionion-kolasin/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/aion-aionion-the-idiom-excuse/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/aion-aionion-literal-one-translation/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/aion-aionion-olam-does-not-mean-eternal/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/a-non-scriptural-logic-forever-olam/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/god-of-this-age/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/unseen-is-it-eternal/
https://www.anonymouschristian.org/blog/hell-in-church-history/
Next, Regarding Hebrews 10:26, the phrase “no longer remains a sacrifice for sins” is in the ‘context of a believer’ here which means the ‘no afterlife Judgment’ (as mentioned in John 5:24) does NOT hold for such ‘fallen-out-believers-who-cannot-repent-on-earth ’—-> and thus as the next verse continues, these will face afterlife Judgment in Fire first just like the “adversaries” (Hebrews 10:27) —> meaning even in the worst case scenario, a ‘Judgment without Mercy’ must be endured first as James 2:13 mentions but it doesn’t end there since His Mercy Triumphs and ends it thereafter as also mentioned in James 2:13 as well as in Romans 11:32.
This holds true since the ‘same punishment to the adversaries’ (where Mercy Triumphs and ends the Worst type of Judgment without Mercy first, James 2:13) —-> is to be endured “likewise” (Hebrews 10:27) by ‘such fallen out believers’ (Hebrews 10:26).
Here are those verses in Hebrews 10 for clarification.
“For if we go on sinning wilfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. ” (Hebrews 10:26 – 27, NASB)
The verse in Hebrews 10:26 speaks of ‘no earthly repentance is possible’. This means that these will face the fiery Judgment of God next in the afterlife as it is so with the ‘adversaries’ (Hebrews 10:27).
After which His Mercy Triumphs later as it is Written in James 2:13 & Romans 11:32 too.
Nothing is contradicted sir. Please allow me to explain the details regarding this even with regards to God’s Reign (please bear with me as this has some fine details and needs full concentration in order to understand it accurately as it is Written, thank-you for your patience):
“then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.” (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28, NASB)
God Will reign till His enemies are put under His Feet (1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28) which is NOT forever signified by the word “till” or “until” as it is mentioned for time-period of “His Reign (Verb)” in 1 Corinthians 15:25 and is likewise meant (His Reign to the limited time period of the “ages” over the house of Jacob in Luke 1:33 too).
The Word “End” (in 1 Corinthians 15:24) itself signifies the “End of His Reign” (as described in 1 Corinthians 15:25) where He has put “all Enemies under His Feet”. Lord Jesus Christ has Succeeded in this by then.
Thereafter, the next verses in 1 Corinthians 15:26 – 28 mention the “Subjection” (meaning Submission) of “All” to Him in the same Way He Subjects to the Father (an Analogy clearly Drawn in these verses) meaning both Subjection or Submission (of the “All created things” to Him & His Subjection to the Father) must be in “Love” after which finally and eternally, God becomes “all in all”.
Please note that in Luke 1:33, it is mentioned that His “Reign” (Verb) is to the “ages” while His “Kingdom” (Noun) which is achieved during the Reign & Remains after the Reign to the Ages Ends —> is said to have “no end”.
That is, His “Kingdom” inclusive of “All” things being Subject to Him in Love (1 Corinthians 15:26 – 28) will have “no end” (Luke 1:33).
Please also note that Greek has the phrase “no end” (as mentioned in Luke 1:33) but it has NEVER been used to describe His Reign (the Verb) and NOR the duration of an afterlife judgment sentence meaning that these are to the ‘age or ages’ respectively according to the case referred to in Holy Scripture.
In Fact His afterlife Judgment for such ‘servants’ (‘believers’) as contrasted against ‘unbelievers’ (in Luke 12:46) —-> is described in Luke 12:47 – 48 based on whether this servant knew the Master’s Will and acted accordingly or not —-> where both cases of punishments are described to have an END as signified by the word UNTIL in the phrase “until you pay the last cent” (Luke 12:59) —-> this is the case which includes the ‘servant’ (or believer) who is punished together with the ‘adversaries’ as the verses in Hebrews 10:26 – 27 and Luke 12:46 – 48 agree perfectly —> yes, these punishments are NOT eternal but only till the last penny is paid (Luke 12:59) agreeing perfectly to the Mercy which Triumphs or Ends that ‘Judgment Without Mercy’ Sentence too (as mentioned in James 2:13).
The fact that these afterlife judgment or punishments are measurable as the phrases beaten with “few/many” stripes accordingly (Luke 12:47 – 48) itself means that these punishments are “finite” (limited, measurable, has an END). Please note that the Greek phrase meaning “no end” (or equivalent as found in Luke 1:33) is NOT used to describe the punishment here meaning these are NOT eternal as popularly erred against these verses as well.
In other words, if Lord Jesus Christ wanted to mean eternal punishment, He should have used a phrase equivalent to “beaten with no end” or “beaten with endless beatings” to signify it which He did NOT —-> instead of ‘beaten with many/few stripes’ in Luke 12:46 – 47 or ‘only till the last Penny is paid’ in Luke 12:59 which describes or includes the afterlife punishments for even the ‘disobedient servant or fallen believer case’ as mentioned in Hebrews 10:26 – 27 —> making the eternal punishment claim invalid & void again.
Can you see this distinction clearly to understand this Truth as it is Written to pin-point accuracy based on the actual words used?
Here’s the verse in Luke:
“and He [Lord Jesus Christ] shall Reign [Verb] over the house of Jacob to the ages; and of His Reign [Kingdom, Noun] there shall be no end.” (Luke 1:33, YLT)
[emphasis mine]
Please note that the Greek Words for the “Reign (Verb)” and “Reign (Noun) = Kingdom” have the same root word in Greek but are distinct in meaning since one is the Action (Act of Reigning, Verb which has an END to the ages) while the latter is an Noun (Kingdom which is obtained by the Act of Reigning) which has “no end” (remains permanently). It’s hard to see it in English but is very distinct in the Greek as described.
So, Lord Jesus Christ doesn’t need to ‘reign-forever’ but only to the ‘ages’ to have all His Enemies being made subject to Him in Love and thereafter, His Kingdom remains with ‘no end’ (forever) Perfectly in God’s Will as God has become ‘All in All’ as it is Written (and understood clearly when Luke 1:33 is read together with 1 Corinthians 15:24 – 28 with a special focus on the ‘house of Jacob (Israel)’ to Understand this Deep Treasure of Holy Scripture).
Maranatha!
Even so come, Lord Jesus Christ the Blessed Saviour of the World!
“Truly, You are a God who hides Himself, O God of Israel, Savior!” (Isaiah 45:15, NASB)
P/S:
“for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute.” – Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 21:15, NASB)
